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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Seamless BFD for VCCV
        Authors         : Vengada Prasad Govindan
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2016-02-04

Abstract:
   This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification
   (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
   (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to define
   Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.  This document will be extended in
   future to include definition of procedures for S-BFD over Tunnels.
   This document extends the CV values defined in RFC5885.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

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https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01


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Subject: [Pals] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Pseudowire Setup and Maintenance using the Label Distribution Protocol
        Authors         : Luca Martini
                          Giles Heron
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03.txt
	Pages           : 34
	Date            : 2016-02-04

Abstract:
   Layer 2 services (such as Frame Relay, Asynchronous Transfer Mode,
   and Ethernet) can be "emulated" over an MPLS backbone by
   encapsulating the Layer 2 Protocol Data Units (PDU) and then
   transmitting them over "pseudowires". It is also possible to use
   pseudowires to provide low-rate Time Division Multiplexed and
   Synchronous Optical NETworking circuit emulation over an MPLS-enabled
   network. This document specifies a protocol for establishing and
   maintaining the pseudowires, using extensions to the Label
   Distribution Protocol (LDP).  Procedures for encapsulating Layer 2
   PDUs are specified in a set of companion documents.

   This document has been written to address errata in a previous
   version of this standard.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03

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https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03


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Subject: [Pals] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pals-status-reduction-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : MPLS LSP PW status refresh reduction for Static Pseudowires
        Authors         : Luca Martini
                          George Swallow
                          Elisa Bellagamba
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pals-status-reduction-00.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2016-02-04

Abstract:
   This document describes a method for generating an aggregated
   pseudowire status message on Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS)
   network Label Switched Path (LSP).

   The method for transmitting the pseudowire (PW) status information is
   not new, however this protocol extension allows a Service Provider
   (SP) to reliably monitor the individual PW status while not
   overwhelming the network of multiple periodic status messages. This
   is achieved by sending a single cumulative summary status
   verification message for all the PWs grouped in the same LSP.




The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-status-reduction/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-status-reduction-00


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Subject: [Pals] PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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--001a11c2b464488454052af7a7d3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Working Group,

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01 has been
requested for PALS working group last call.

We will conduct an IPR poll before the WG LC is started.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?

There are no IPR disclosures currently filed against this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the PALS WG email list.* The
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the PALS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks,
Andy and Stewart

--001a11c2b464488454052af7a7d3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Working Group,</span><br st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px"><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><a href=3D"https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01">https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a> has been=C2=A0<div>requested for<sp=
an style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0PALS working group last call.</span><br s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13px"><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:13px">We will conduct an=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size=
:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span class=3D=
"" style=3D"font-size:13px">poll</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=
=A0before the WG LC</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0is started.<=
/span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13px">Are you aware of any=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=
=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0that app=
lies to=C2=A0</span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv?<br style=3D"font-size:13=
px"><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">If so, has =
this=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0been disclosed in compliance with IETF=C2=A0=
</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13px">=C2=A0rules</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13px">(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?<=
/span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13px">There are no=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font=
-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0disclosures curr=
ently filed against this document.</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><br s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">If you are listed as=
 a document author or contributor please respond to</span><br style=3D"font=
-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">this email regardless of whether=
 or not you are aware of any relevant</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><s=
pan class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
13px">. *The response needs to be sent to the=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0WG=
 email list.* The</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:13px">document will not advance to the next stage until a response has b=
een</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">recei=
ved from each author and contributor.</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><b=
r style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">If you are on the=
=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0WG email list but are not listed as an author o=
r</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any</span><br=
 style=3D"font-size:13px"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0that has not yet been disclosed in =
conformance with IETF rules.</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px"><br style=
=3D"font-size:13px">Thanks,</div><div>Andy and Stewart</div><div><br></div>=
</div>

--001a11c2b464488454052af7a7d3--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 00:58:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Andy,

I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.

Thanks,

- Carlos.

From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:33 PM
To: "draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pals-seamless=
-vccv@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-=
pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org>>
Cc: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

Working Group,

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01 has been
requested for PALS working group last call.

We will conduct an IPR poll before the WG LC is started.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?

There are no IPR disclosures currently filed against this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the PALS WG email list.* The
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the PALS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks,
Andy and Stewart


--_000_D2D95DD736C1Acpignataciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Andy,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&#8212; Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, February 4, 2016 at=
 3:33 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org">draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org</a>=
&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org">draft-=
ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ie=
tf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>PALS IPR poll for draft-ie=
tf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Working Group,</span><br st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01">ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a> has been&nbs=
p;
<div>requested for<span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;PALS working group l=
ast call.</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">We will conduct an&nbsp;</span><span class=
=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nb=
sp;</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">poll</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;before the WG LC</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
3px">&nbsp;is
 started.</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">Are you aware of any&nbsp;</span><span class=
=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nb=
sp;that applies to&nbsp;</span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv?<br style=3D"f=
ont-size:13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">If so, has this&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""=
 style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;be=
en disclosed in compliance with IETF&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"=
font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;rules</span>=
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more=
 details)?</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">There are no&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;discl=
osures currently filed against this document.</span><br style=3D"font-size:=
13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">If you are listed as a document author or co=
ntributor please respond to</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">this email regardless of whether or not you =
are aware of any relevant</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13px">. *The response needs to be sent to the&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"=
" style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;=
WG email list.* The</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">document will not advance to the next stage =
until a response has been</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">received from each author and contributor.</=
span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">If you are on the&nbsp;</span><span class=3D=
"" style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp=
;WG email list but are not listed as an author or</span><br style=3D"font-s=
ize:13px">
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">contributor, then please explicitly respond =
only if you are aware of any</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">IPR</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13px">&nbsp;that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rule=
s.</span><br style=3D"font-size:13px">
<br style=3D"font-size:13px">
Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy and Stewart</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D2D95DD736C1Acpignataciscocom_--


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From: "Vengada Prasad Govindan (venggovi)" <venggovi@cisco.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 06:54:24 +0000
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References: <CAA=duU2++trcqKtbUTdcAJMa7HFSF7orhk93sQ0oHDL08Uh+Ng@mail.gmail.com> <D2D95DD7.36C1A%cpignata@cisco.com>
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Hello Andy,
  I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.
Thanks
Prasad

From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 6:29 AM
To: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>; draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf=
.org
Cc: pals@ietf.org
Subject: Re: PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

Andy,

I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.

Thanks,

- Carlos.

From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:33 PM
To: "draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pals-seamless=
-vccv@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-=
pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org>>
Cc: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Subject: PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

Working Group,

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01 has been
requested for PALS working group last call.

We will conduct an IPR poll before the WG LC is started.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?

There are no IPR disclosures currently filed against this document.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the PALS WG email list.* The
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.

If you are on the PALS WG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thanks,
Andy and Stewart


--_000_bf1e08d0c6b64a8aac975f4852e59607XCHRCD020ciscocom_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello Andy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp; I am not aware of any IPR rela=
ted to this document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks<br>
Prasad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 05, 2016 6:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew G. Malis &lt;agmalis@gmail.com&gt;; draft-ietf-pals-seaml=
ess-vccv@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pals@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Andy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I am not aware of any IPR related to th=
is document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&#8212; Carlos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:black">&quot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
gmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:33 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org">=
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draf=
t-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org">draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv@ietf.org<=
/a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>PALS IPR poll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Working Group,<br>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-=
seamless-vccv-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv=
-01</a> has been&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">requested for</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&nbsp;=
PALS working group last call.<br>
<br>
We will conduct an&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;poll&nbsp;before the WG LC&nbsp;is started=
.<br>
<br>
Are you aware of any&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;that applies to&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black=
">draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
If so, has this&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;been disclosed in compliance with IETF&nbsp;I=
PR&nbsp;rules<br>
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?<br>
<br>
There are no&nbsp;IPR&nbsp;disclosures currently filed against this documen=
t.<br>
<br>
If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to<br>
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant<br>
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the&nbsp;PALS&nbsp;WG email list.* T=
he<br>
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been<br>
received from each author and contributor.<br>
<br>
If you are on the&nbsp;PALS&nbsp;WG email list but are not listed as an aut=
hor or<br>
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any<br=
>
IPR&nbsp;that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<br=
>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Andy and Stewart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_bf1e08d0c6b64a8aac975f4852e59607XCHRCD020ciscocom_--


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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:16:53 -0500
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Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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--047d7bd6c51207bde9052b43b2e9
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This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01.
You can find the draft at:

*https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01>*

Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG
list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.

This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.

We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and
support publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of
course, more extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or
VCCV experts.

Thanks,
Andy and Stewart

--047d7bd6c51207bde9052b43b2e9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">This is the=C2=A0</span><sp=
an class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
13px">=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-=
size:13px">Group</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span cl=
ass=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">Last</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px"=
>=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">Call</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0for=C2=A0</span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-=
01. You can find the draft at:<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div>=
<font color=3D"#1155cc"><u><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet=
f-pals-seamless-vccv-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamle=
ss-vccv-01</a></u></font><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has=
 been copied to the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PAL=
S list only.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"fon=
t-size:13px">This=C2=A0<span class=3D"">last</span>=C2=A0<span class=3D"">c=
all</span>=C2=A0will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.</div><div st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">We would app=
reciate even just responses that you&#39;ve read the draft and support publ=
ication, even if you don&#39;t have any specific comments. Of course, more =
extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</d=
iv><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Th=
anks,</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Andy and Stewart</div><div style=
=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div></div>

--047d7bd6c51207bde9052b43b2e9--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Andy, WG,

It was pointed out that the security considerations of this document =
=E2=80=9Cis a one-liner=E2=80=9D, and that more is more instead of less.

It is a good call-out as an opportunity, during WGLC, to review and =
deliberately improve the Security Considerations.

Here=E2=80=99s a proposal:

 4.  Security Considerations

-   Security measures described in [RFC5885] and
-   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base] are to be followed.
+   Security considerations for VCCV are addressed in Section 10 of
+   [RFC5085].  The introduction of the S-BFD Connectivity Verification
+   (CV) Types introduces no new security risks for VCCV.  Routers that
+   implement the additional CV Types defined herein are subject to the
+   same security considerations as defined in [RFC5085], as well as
+   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
+
+   This specification does not raise any additional security issues
+   beyond these.

Let=E2=80=99s please all ponder and consider whether there are =
additional security considerations, increases of attack surface, or new =
attack vectors, for the addition of these CV Types.

Thanks!

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

PS: I support advancing this document as a key document part of the =
Seamless BFD set (not because I am also a co-author).



> On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You can find the draft at:
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01>
>=20
> Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD =
WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.
>=20
> This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.
>=20
> We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and =
support publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of =
course, more extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or =
VCCV experts.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Andy and Stewart
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Pals mailing list
> Pals@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals


--Apple-Mail=_238793D0-C2E6-46DD-B5EE-617CCA9B8D1D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Andy, WG,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It was pointed out that the security =
considerations of this document =E2=80=9Cis a one-liner=E2=80=9D, and =
that more is more instead of less.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It is a good call-out as an =
opportunity, during WGLC, to review and deliberately improve the =
Security Considerations.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Here=E2=80=99s a proposal:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); =
background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp;4.&nbsp; Security =
Considerations</div><p style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); min-height: 14px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></p><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, =
20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">- &nbsp; Security =
measures described in [RFC5885] and</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, =
20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">- &nbsp; =
[I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base] are to be followed.</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; =
color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">+ =
&nbsp; Security considerations for VCCV are addressed in Section 10 =
of</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">+ &nbsp; [RFC5085].&nbsp; The introduction of the S-BFD =
Connectivity Verification</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); =
background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">+ &nbsp; (CV) Types =
introduces no new security risks for VCCV.&nbsp; Routers that</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; =
color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">+ =
&nbsp; implement the additional CV Types defined herein are subject to =
the</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">+ &nbsp; same security considerations as defined in =
[RFC5085], as well as</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); =
background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">+ &nbsp; =
[I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, =
20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">+</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; =
color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">+ =
&nbsp; This specification does not raise any additional security =
issues</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">+ &nbsp; beyond these.</div></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Let=E2=80=99s please all ponder and =
consider whether there are additional security considerations, increases =
of attack surface, or new attack vectors, for the addition of these CV =
Types.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks!</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">PS: I support advancing this document =
as a key document part of the Seamless BFD set (not because I am also a =
co-author).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">This is the&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Group</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Last</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Call</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;for&nbsp;</span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You =
can find the draft at:<div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#1155cc" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a=
></u></font><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to =
the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list =
only.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D"">This&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"">last</span>&nbsp;<span class=3D"">call</span>&nbsp;will run =
for two weeks, ending on February 22.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the =
draft and support publication, even if you don't have any specific =
comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especially =
from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D"">Andy =
and Stewart</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Pals =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Pals@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Pals@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Andy, Stewart,

In reviewing this document as part of this WGLC, we are saying that it =
=E2=80=9CUpdates: 5885=E2=80=9D.

However, thinking through it, I am not sure it does.

What would be your chair=E2=80=99s guidance on this?

Thanks!

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

> On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You can find the draft at:
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01>
>=20
> Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD =
WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.
>=20
> This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.
>=20
> We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and =
support publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of =
course, more extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or =
VCCV experts.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Andy and Stewart
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Pals mailing list
> Pals@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals


--Apple-Mail=_9541CE67-1D50-4C65-B239-FE58B640860E
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Andy, Stewart,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">In reviewing this document as part of this WGLC, we are =
saying that it =E2=80=9CUpdates:&nbsp;5885=E2=80=9D.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">However, thinking =
through it, I am not sure it does.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What would be your chair=E2=80=99s =
guidance on this?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks!</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Feb 8, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">This is the&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Group</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Last</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Call</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;for&nbsp;</span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You =
can find the draft at:<div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#1155cc" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a=
></u></font><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to =
the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list =
only.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D"">This&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"">last</span>&nbsp;<span class=3D"">call</span>&nbsp;will run =
for two weeks, ending on February 22.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the =
draft and support publication, even if you don't have any specific =
comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especially =
from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D"">Andy =
and Stewart</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Pals =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Pals@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Pals@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 22:09:28 -0500
Message-ID: <CAA=duU1R4W4y7_9MSP2wrOmFptPHfcz2AyBhq0Ei7VVMfDtgWA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Carlos,

The usual test is whether the text in the original RFC is changed as a
result of the new RFC to a greater extent than just adding new code points
to registries. I think the text in section 3 probably meets that criteria,
but I=E2=80=99m certainly open to other opinions.

Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Andy, Stewart,
>
> In reviewing this document as part of this WGLC, we are saying that it
> =E2=80=9CUpdates: 5885=E2=80=9D.
>
> However, thinking through it, I am not sure it does.
>
> What would be your chair=E2=80=99s guidance on this?
>
> Thanks!
>
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>
> On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vcc=
v-01.
> You can find the draft at:
>
> *https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01>*
>
> Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG
> list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.
>
> This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.
>
> We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and
> support publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of
> course, more extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or
> VCCV experts.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy and Stewart
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pals mailing list
> Pals@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Carlos,<div><br></div><div>The usual test is whether the t=
ext in the original RFC is changed as a result of the new RFC to a greater =
extent than just adding new code points to registries. I think the text in =
section 3 probably meets that criteria, but I=E2=80=99m certainly open to o=
ther opinions.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 201=
6 at 7:10 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-=
word">Andy, Stewart,<div><br></div><div>In reviewing this document as part =
of this WGLC, we are saying that it =E2=80=9CUpdates:=C2=A05885=E2=80=9D.</=
div><div><br></div><div>However, thinking through it, I am not sure it does=
.</div><div><br></div><div>What would be your chair=E2=80=99s guidance on t=
his?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font col=
or=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div></font></span><di=
v><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span class=3D""><div>On Feb 8, 2016, =
at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br></span><div><div><di=
v class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">This is the=
=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Group<=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
13px">Last</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:13px">Call</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0for=C2=A0<=
/span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You can find the draft at:<div styl=
e=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div><font color=3D"#1155cc"><u><a href=3D"h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a></u></f=
ont><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-si=
ze:13px">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the B=
FD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.</div><di=
v style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">This=C2=
=A0<span>last</span>=C2=A0<span>call</span>=C2=A0will run for two weeks, en=
ding on February 22.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-size:13px">We would appreciate even just responses that you&#39;v=
e read the draft and support publication, even if you don&#39;t have any sp=
ecific comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especially=
 from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">A=
ndy and Stewart</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div></div></div></=
div><span class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br>Pals mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Pals@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Pals@ietf.org</a><br><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals" target=3D"_blank">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals</a><br></span></div></blockquote></div><=
br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Support adoption of the draft, after going through the same.

Thanks
Srihari
From: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org>> o=
n behalf of "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Monday, 8 February 2016 8:46 pm
To: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rt=
g-bfd@ietf.org>>
Subject: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-=
01. You can find the draft at:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG lis=
t as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.

This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.

We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and supp=
ort publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of course, m=
ore extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or VCCV experts=
.

Thanks,
Andy and Stewart


--_000_D2DF8F592993Dsrihariciscocom_
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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
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<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Support adoption of the draft, after going through the same.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Srihari</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Rtg-bfd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org">rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of &q=
uot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, 8 February 2016 8:46 =
pm<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ie=
tf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd=
@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.or=
g">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>PALS Working Group Last Ca=
ll for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">This is the&nbsp;</span><sp=
an class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
13px">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-=
size:13px">Group</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;</span><span cl=
ass=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">Last</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px"=
>&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px">Call</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;for&nbsp;</span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-=
01.
 You can find the draft at:
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#1155cc"><u><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-s=
eamless-vccv-01</a></u></font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has=
 been copied to the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PAL=
S list only.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">This&nbsp;<span class=3D"">last</span>&nbsp;<=
span class=3D"">call</span>&nbsp;will run for two weeks, ending on February=
 22.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">We would appreciate even just responses that =
you've read the draft and support publication, even if you don't have any s=
pecific comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especiall=
y from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Andy and Stewart</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D2DF8F592993Dsrihariciscocom_--


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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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[removing "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org> as originally requested =
by Andy]

Sasha,

Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are =
for.

I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML =
Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.

Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s =
our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are =
some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.

1.a. Yes, this is our new text:

2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing

   Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following
   the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].

1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, =
blocking future uses and ideas. This is actually something that is being =
solved directly in the bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution =
will apply to all dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS =
from Alvaro.

2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. It =
is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:

2.2.2.3.  Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP

   The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for
   further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used with
   signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD
   discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other
   means.

In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Cc=
an advertise"

2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not requiring =
at this point?

Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # =
directly.

Thanks,

=E2=80=94 Carlos.



> On Feb 9, 2016, at 4:29 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>=20
> Andy and all,
> After reading the draft I do not support its progression in its =
present state.
>=20
> The main reason for that is that two important issues are denoted as =
TBD in the draft:
> 1.       S-BFD Reflector Demultiplexing (Section 2.2.2.1).  This issue =
should be really easy to resolve IMHO (unless I am missing something =
important), since:
> a.       Demultiplexing of S-BFD packets is described in detail in =
Section 7.1 of the Base S-BFD draft =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base-05>
> b.      Additionally, I would expect that just one S-BFD session per =
PW is required. Unfortunately the draft does not say anything about this =
issue
> 2.       S-BFD Reflector advertisement of target discriminators using =
LDP (Section 2.2.2.3).
> a.       =46rom my POV leaving this issue unresolved effectively means =
that S-BFD cannot be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, since the =
draft states (in Section 2.2.2, 1st para) that =E2=80=9CWhen as =
pseudowire signaling protocol such as LDP or L2TPv3 is in use the S-BFD =
Reflector advertises its target discriminators using  that signaling =
protocol=E2=80=9D
> b.      It should be noticed that advertisement of target =
discriminators using L2TP is resolved in the document. So closing the =
issue with LDP should not be too complicated.
> I also find it strange that Section 2.2.2 refers to a TBD Section of =
the Base S-BFD draft for the definition of setting the BFD Protocol =
fields by the S-BFD Reflector. To the best of my understanding =
references to two different sections of the base S-BFD draft (7.3.2 and =
7.8) should be used there.
>=20
> I will review the draft again once the current gaps are closed.
>=20
> Regards,
> Sasha
>=20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>=20
> From: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Andrew G. Malis
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 5:17 PM
> To: pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You can find the draft at:
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01>
>=20
> Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD =
WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.
>=20
> This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.
>=20
> We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and =
support publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of =
course, more extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or =
VCCV experts.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Andy and Stewart


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">[removing&nbsp;"<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt; as originally requested by Andy]<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Sasha,</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thank you for reviewing =
and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are for.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I believe our working =
copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML Diffs attached to this =
email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Indeed, we are cleaning up the =
=E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s our disposition and follow-ups to =
your concerns. Note that there are some TBDs that you missed but we are =
also fixing.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1.a. Yes, this is our new text:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); =
background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">2.2.2.1.&nbsp; =
Demultiplexing</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); min-height: 14px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; =
color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW =
context, following</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; the procedures in Section 7.1 of =
[I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</div></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly =
limiting for no real reason, blocking future uses and ideas. This is =
actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from =
Alvaro.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2.a. =
Incorrect.&nbsp;S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. It =
is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">2.2.2.3.&nbsp; Advertisement of Target Discriminators using =
LDP</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
min-height: 14px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, =
249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left =
for</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; further study.&nbsp; It should be noted that =
S-BFD can still be used with</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, =
20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; signaled =
PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; =
color: rgb(41, 249, 20); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; discriminators or by learning the S-BFD =
discriminators by other</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Andale Mono'; color: rgb(41, 249, 20); =
background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
means.</div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In =
the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Ccan =
advertise"</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2.b. =
Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not requiring at =
this point?&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the =
section # directly.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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<body > 
  <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> 
  <tr bgcolor="orange"><th></th><th>&nbsp;draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01.txt&nbsp;</th><th> </th><th>&nbsp;draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02.txt&nbsp;</th><th></th></tr> 
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Internet Engineering Task Force                              V. Govindan</td><td> </td><td class="right">Internet Engineering Task Force                              V. Govindan</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Internet-Draft                                              C. Pignataro</td><td> </td><td class="right">Internet-Draft                                              C. Pignataro</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Updates: 5885 (if approved)                                Cisco Systems</td><td> </td><td class="right">Updates: 5885 (if approved)                                Cisco Systems</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0001" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">Intended status: Standards Track                        February <span class="delete">4,</span> 2016</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">Intended status: Standards Track                        February <span class="insert">9,</span> 2016</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">Expires: August <span class="delete">7,</span> 2016</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">Expires: August <span class="insert">12,</span> 2016</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                         Seamless BFD for VCCV</td><td> </td><td class="right">                         Seamless BFD for VCCV</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0002" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">                    draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-0<span class="delete">1</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">                    draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-0<span class="insert">2</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Abstract</td><td> </td><td class="right">Abstract</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification</td><td> </td><td class="right">   This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection</td><td> </td><td class="right">   (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to define</td><td> </td><td class="right">   (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to define</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.  This document will be extended in</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.  This document will be extended in</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   future to include definition of procedures for S-BFD over Tunnels.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   future to include definition of procedures for S-BFD over Tunnels.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0003" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   This document <span class="delete">extends</span> the CV <span class="delete">values defined in RFC5885.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   This document <span class="insert">updates RFC 5885, extending</span> the CV <span class="insert">Values and the</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   Capability Selection.</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Status of This Memo</td><td> </td><td class="right">Status of This Memo</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the</td><td> </td><td class="right">   This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Task Force (IETF).  Note that other groups may also distribute</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Task Force (IETF).  Note that other groups may also distribute</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   working documents as Internet-Drafts.  The list of current Internet-</td><td> </td><td class="right">   working documents as Internet-Drafts.  The list of current Internet-</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any</td><td> </td><td class="right">   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference</td><td> </td><td class="right">   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."</td><td> </td><td class="right">   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0004" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   This Internet-Draft will expire on August <span class="delete">7</span>, 2016.</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   This Internet-Draft will expire on August <span class="insert">12</span>, 2016.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Copyright Notice</td><td> </td><td class="right">Copyright Notice</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Copyright (c) 2016 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Copyright (c) 2016 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   document authors.  All rights reserved.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   document authors.  All rights reserved.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal</td><td> </td><td class="right">   This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Provisions Relating to IETF Documents</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Provisions Relating to IETF Documents</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of</td><td> </td><td class="right">   (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   publication of this document.  Please review these documents</td><td> </td><td class="right">   publication of this document.  Please review these documents</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l2" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 2, line 16</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r2" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 2, line 17</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Table of Contents</td><td> </td><td class="right">Table of Contents</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   1.  Background  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   2</td><td> </td><td class="right">   1.  Background  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   2</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     1.1.  Requirements Language . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   3</td><td> </td><td class="right">     1.1.  Requirements Language . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   3</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   2.  S-BFD Connectivity Verification . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   3</td><td> </td><td class="right">   2.  S-BFD Connectivity Verification . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   3</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     2.1.  Co-existence of S-BFD and BFD capabilites . . . . . . . .   4</td><td> </td><td class="right">     2.1.  Co-existence of S-BFD and BFD capabilites . . . . . . . .   4</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     2.2.  S-BFD CV Operation  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   4</td><td> </td><td class="right">     2.2.  S-BFD CV Operation  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   4</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">       2.2.1.  S-BFD Initiator Operation . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   4</td><td> </td><td class="right">       2.2.1.  S-BFD Initiator Operation . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   4</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">       2.2.2.  S-BFD Reflector Operation . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   4</td><td> </td><td class="right">       2.2.2.  S-BFD Reflector Operation . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   4</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0005" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">         2.2.2.1.  <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector</span> Demultiplexing  . . . . . . . . .   <span class="delete">5</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">         2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   5</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">         2.2.2.2.  S-BFD Reflector transmission of control packets .   5</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">         <span class="insert">2.2.2.2.  Transmission</span> of <span class="insert">Control Packets</span> . . . . . . . . .   5</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">         2.2.2.3.  S-BFD Reflector advertisement of target</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">         <span class="insert">2.2.2.3.  Advertisement</span> of <span class="insert">Target Discriminators using LDP</span>    5</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">                   discriminators using LDP  . . . .</span> . . . . . . . .   5</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">         <span class="insert">2.2.2.4.  Advertisement</span> of <span class="insert">Target Discriminators Using L2TP   5</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">         <span class="delete">2.2.2.4.  S-BFD Reflector advertisement</span> of <span class="delete">target</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">         2.2.2.5.  Provisioning of Target Discriminators</span> . . . . . .   5</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">                   discriminators using L2TP . . .</span> . . . . . . . . .   5</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">     2.3.  S-BFD Encapsulation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="insert">5</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">         <span class="delete">2.2.2.5.  Provisioning</span> of <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector target</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">                   discriminators  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .</span>   5</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">         <span class="delete">2.2.2.6.  Probing</span> of <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector target discriminators</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">                   using alert discriminators  . . . . .</span> . . . . . .   5</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">     2.3.  S-BFD Encapsulation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="delete">6</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     2.4.  S-BFD CV Types  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   6</td><td> </td><td class="right">     2.4.  S-BFD CV Types  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   6</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   3.  Capability Selection  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   6</td><td> </td><td class="right">   3.  Capability Selection  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   6</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0006" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   4.  Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="delete">7</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   4.  Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="insert">6</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   5.  IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   7</td><td> </td><td class="right">   5.  IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   7</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     5.1.  MPLS CV Types for the VCCV Interface Parameters Sub-TLV .   7</td><td> </td><td class="right">     5.1.  MPLS CV Types for the VCCV Interface Parameters Sub-TLV .   7</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0007" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">     5.2.  L2TPv3 CV Types for the VCCV Capability AVP . . . . . . .   <span class="delete">8</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">     5.2.  L2TPv3 CV Types for the VCCV Capability AVP . . . . . . .   <span class="insert">7</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     5.3.  PW Associated Channel Type  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   8</td><td> </td><td class="right">     5.3.  PW Associated Channel Type  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   8</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0008" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   6.  Acknowledgements  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="delete">9</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   6.  Acknowledgements  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="insert">8</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   7.  Contributing Authors  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="delete">9</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   7.  Contributing Authors  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   <span class="insert">8</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   8.  References  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9</td><td> </td><td class="right">   8.  References  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     8.1.  Normative References  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9</td><td> </td><td class="right">     8.1.  Normative References  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     8.2.  Informative References  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10</td><td> </td><td class="right">     8.2.  Informative References  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Authors' Addresses  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Authors' Addresses  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">1.  Background</td><td> </td><td class="right">1.  Background</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   BFD for VCCV [RFC5885] defines the CV types for BFD using VCCV,</td><td> </td><td class="right">   BFD for VCCV [RFC5885] defines the CV types for BFD using VCCV,</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   protocol operation and the required packet encapsulation formats.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   protocol operation and the required packet encapsulation formats.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   This document extends those procedures, CV type values to enable</td><td> </td><td class="right">   This document extends those procedures, CV type values to enable</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l3" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 4, line 12</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r3" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 3, line 40</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   UDP headers) for fault detection only.  S-BFD for fault detection and</td><td> </td><td class="right">   UDP headers) for fault detection only.  S-BFD for fault detection and</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   status signaling is outside the scope of this specification.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   status signaling is outside the scope of this specification.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   +---------------------------------------+-----------+---------------+</td><td> </td><td class="right">   +---------------------------------------+-----------+---------------+</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                                       |   Fault   |     Fault     |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                                       |   Fault   |     Fault     |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                                       | Detection | Detection and |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                                       | Detection | Detection and |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                                       |    Only   |     Status    |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                                       |    Only   |     Status    |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                                       |           |   Signaling   |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                                       |           |   Signaling   |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   +---------------------------------------+-----------+---------------+</td><td> </td><td class="right">   +---------------------------------------+-----------+---------------+</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |     S-BFD, IP/UDP Encapsulation (with |    TBD1   |      N/A      |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |     S-BFD, IP/UDP Encapsulation (with |    TBD1   |      N/A      |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0009" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   |                       IP/UDP Headers) |  <span class="delete">(Note1)</span>  |               |</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   |                       IP/UDP Headers) |  <span class="insert">       </span>  |               |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                                       |           |               |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                                       |           |               |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |      S-BFD, PW-ACH Encapsulation when |    TBD2   |      N/A      |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |      S-BFD, PW-ACH Encapsulation when |    TBD2   |      N/A      |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0010" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   |   using MPLS PW or L2SS Encapsulation |  <span class="delete">(Note2)</span>  |               |</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   |   using MPLS PW or L2SS Encapsulation |  <span class="insert">       </span>  |               |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |    when using L2TP PW (without IP/UDP |           |               |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |    when using L2TP PW (without IP/UDP |           |               |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                              Headers) |           |               |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                              Headers) |           |               |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   +---------------------------------------+-----------+---------------+</td><td> </td><td class="right">   +---------------------------------------+-----------+---------------+</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                 Table 1: Bitmask Values for BFD CV Types</td><td> </td><td class="right">                 Table 1: Bitmask Values for BFD CV Types</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Two new bits are requested from IANA to indicate S-BFD operation.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Two new bits are requested from IANA to indicate S-BFD operation.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">2.1.  Co-existence of S-BFD and BFD capabilites</td><td> </td><td class="right">2.1.  Co-existence of S-BFD and BFD capabilites</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Since the CV types for S-BFD and BFD are unique, BFD and S-BFD</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Since the CV types for S-BFD and BFD are unique, BFD and S-BFD</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   capabilities can be advertised concurrently.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   capabilities can be advertised concurrently.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">2.2.  S-BFD CV Operation</td><td> </td><td class="right">2.2.  S-BFD CV Operation</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">2.2.1.  S-BFD Initiator Operation</td><td> </td><td class="right">2.2.1.  S-BFD Initiator Operation</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   The S-BFD Initiator SHOULD bootstrap S-BFD sessions after it learns</td><td> </td><td class="right">   The S-BFD Initiator SHOULD bootstrap S-BFD sessions after it learns</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0011" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   the discriminator of the remote target <span class="delete">identifier</span> through one or more</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   the discriminator of the remote target <span class="insert">identifier.  This can be</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   of the following methods:</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   achieved, for example but not limited to,</span> through one or more of the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   following methods:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   1.  Advertisements of S-BFD discriminators made through AVP/ TLVs</td><td> </td><td class="right">   1.  Advertisements of S-BFD discriminators made through AVP/ TLVs</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">       defined in L2TP/ LDP.</td><td> </td><td class="right">       defined in L2TP/ LDP.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0012" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   2.  Provisioning of S-BFD <span class="delete">discriminators.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   2.  Provisioning of S-BFD <span class="insert">discriminators by manual configuration of</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">       the PE/LCCEs.</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0013" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   3.  Probing remote S-BFD discriminators through S-BFD Alert</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   3.  <span class="insert">Assignment of S-BFD discriminators by a controller.</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">       discriminators [I-D.akiya-bfd-seamless-alert-discrim]</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert"></span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   4.</span>  Probing remote S-BFD discriminators through <span class="insert">a mechanism such as</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">       S-BFD Alert discriminators [I-D.akiya-bfd-seamless-alert-discrim]</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   S-BFD Initiator operation MUST be according to the specifications in</td><td> </td><td class="right">   S-BFD Initiator operation MUST be according to the specifications in</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Section 7.2 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Section 7.2 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">2.2.2.  S-BFD Reflector Operation</td><td> </td><td class="right">2.2.2.  S-BFD Reflector Operation</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0014" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      When <span class="delete">as</span> pseudowire signalling protocol such as LDP or L2TPv3 is in</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      When <span class="insert">a</span> pseudowire signalling protocol such as LDP or L2TPv3 is in</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      <span class="delete">use</span> the S-BFD Reflector <span class="delete">advertises</span> its target discriminators using</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      <span class="insert">use,</span> the S-BFD Reflector <span class="insert">can advertise</span> its target discriminators</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      that signalling protocol.  When static PWs are in use the target</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      using that signalling protocol.  When static PWs are in use the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      discriminator of S-BFD needs to be provisioned on the S-BFD</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      target discriminator of S-BFD needs to be provisioned on the S-BFD</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      Initiator nodes.</td><td> </td><td class="right">      Initiator nodes.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      All point to point pseudowires are bidirectional, the S-BFD</td><td> </td><td class="right">      All point to point pseudowires are bidirectional, the S-BFD</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      Reflector therefore reflects the S-BFD packet back to the</td><td> </td><td class="right">      Reflector therefore reflects the S-BFD packet back to the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      Initiator using the VCCV channel of the reverse direction of the</td><td> </td><td class="right">      Initiator using the VCCV channel of the reverse direction of the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      PW on which it was received.</td><td> </td><td class="right">      PW on which it was received.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      It is observed that the reflector has enough information to</td><td> </td><td class="right">      It is observed that the reflector has enough information to</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      reflect the S-BFD Async packet received by it back to the S-BFD</td><td> </td><td class="right">      reflect the S-BFD Async packet received by it back to the S-BFD</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0015" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      initiator using the fields of the L2TPv3 <span class="delete">headers.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      initiator using the <span class="insert">PW context (e.g.,</span> fields of the L2TPv3</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      <span class="insert">headers).</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      S-BFD Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be</td><td> </td><td class="right">      S-BFD Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0016" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      according to the specifications <span class="delete">in Section TBD</span> of</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      according to the specifications of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0017" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">2.2.2.1.  <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector </span>Demultiplexing</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0018" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">TBD</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0019" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">2.2.2.2.  <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector transmission of control p</span>ackets</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">2.2.2.2.  <span class="insert">Transmission of Control P</span>ackets</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   The procedures of S-BFD Reflector described in</td><td> </td><td class="right">   The procedures of S-BFD Reflector described in</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base] apply for S-BFD using VCCV.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base] apply for S-BFD using VCCV.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0020" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">2.2.2.3.  <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector advertisement</span> of <span class="delete">target discriminators</span> using</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">2.2.2.3.  <span class="insert">Advertisement</span> of <span class="insert">Target Discriminators</span> using LDP</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">          LDP</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0021" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">TBD.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used with</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   means.</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0022" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">2.2.2.4.  <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector advertisement</span> of <span class="delete">target discriminators using</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">2.2.2.4.  <span class="insert">Advertisement</span> of <span class="insert">Target Discriminators Using</span> L2TP</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">          L2TP</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   The S-BFD Reflector MUST use the AVP</td><td> </td><td class="right">   The S-BFD Reflector MUST use the AVP</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   [I-D.ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator] defined for advertising its</td><td> </td><td class="right">   [I-D.ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator] defined for advertising its</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   target discriminators using L2TP.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   target discriminators using L2TP.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0023" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">2.2.2.5.  Provisioning of <span class="delete">S-BFD Reflector target d</span>iscriminators</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">2.2.2.5.  Provisioning of <span class="insert">Target D</span>iscriminators</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   S-BFD target discriminators MAY be provisioned when static PWs are</td><td> </td><td class="right">   S-BFD target discriminators MAY be provisioned when static PWs are</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   used.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   used.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0024" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">2.2.2.6.  Probing of S-BFD Reflector target discriminators using alert</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">          discriminators</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete"></span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   S-BFD alert discriminators MAY be used to probe S-BFD target</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   discriminators.  If a node implements S-BFD reflector, it SHOULD</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   respond to Alert discriminator requests received from potential S-BFD</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   Initiators.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">                                                                         </td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">2.3.  S-BFD Encapsulation</td><td> </td><td class="right">2.3.  S-BFD Encapsulation</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Unless specified differently below, the encapsulation of S-BFD</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Unless specified differently below, the encapsulation of S-BFD</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   packets is the identical the method specified in Sec.3.2 [RFC5885]</td><td> </td><td class="right">   packets is the identical the method specified in Sec.3.2 [RFC5885]</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   and in [RFC5880] for the encapsulation of BFD packets.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   and in [RFC5880] for the encapsulation of BFD packets.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   o  IP/UDP BFD Encapsulation (BFD with IP/UDP Headers)</td><td> </td><td class="right">   o  IP/UDP BFD Encapsulation (BFD with IP/UDP Headers)</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      *  The destination UDP port for the IP encapsulated S-BFD packet</td><td> </td><td class="right">      *  The destination UDP port for the IP encapsulated S-BFD packet</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         MUST be 7784 [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td> </td><td class="right">         MUST be 7784 [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l4" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 6, line 29</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r4" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 6, line 7</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         to Sec.7.2.2 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td> </td><td class="right">         to Sec.7.2.2 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   o  PW-ACH/ L2SS BFD Encapsulation (BFD without IP/UDP Headers)</td><td> </td><td class="right">   o  PW-ACH/ L2SS BFD Encapsulation (BFD without IP/UDP Headers)</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      *  The encapsulation of S-BFD packets using this format MUST be</td><td> </td><td class="right">      *  The encapsulation of S-BFD packets using this format MUST be</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         according to Sec.3.2 of [RFC5885] with the exception of the PW-</td><td> </td><td class="right">         according to Sec.3.2 of [RFC5885] with the exception of the PW-</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         ACH/ L2SS type.</td><td> </td><td class="right">         ACH/ L2SS type.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      *  When VCCV carries PW-ACH/ L2SS-encapsulated S-BFD (i.e., "raw"</td><td> </td><td class="right">      *  When VCCV carries PW-ACH/ L2SS-encapsulated S-BFD (i.e., "raw"</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         S-BFD), the PW-ACH (pseudowire CW's) or L2SS' Channel Type MUST</td><td> </td><td class="right">         S-BFD), the PW-ACH (pseudowire CW's) or L2SS' Channel Type MUST</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0025" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">         be set to TBD<span class="delete">2</span> to indicate "S-BFD Control, PW-ACH/ L2SS-</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">         be set to TBD<span class="insert">3</span> to indicate "S-BFD Control, PW-ACH/ L2SS-</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         encapsulated" (i.e., S-BFD without IP/UDP headers; see</td><td> </td><td class="right">         encapsulated" (i.e., S-BFD without IP/UDP headers; see</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         Section 5.3).  This is to allow the identification of the</td><td> </td><td class="right">         Section 5.3).  This is to allow the identification of the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         encased S-BFD payload when demultiplexing the VCCV control</td><td> </td><td class="right">         encased S-BFD payload when demultiplexing the VCCV control</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         channel.</td><td> </td><td class="right">         channel.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">2.4.  S-BFD CV Types</td><td> </td><td class="right">2.4.  S-BFD CV Types</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">3.  Capability Selection</td><td> </td><td class="right">3.  Capability Selection</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   When multiple S-BFD CV Types are advertised, and after applying the</td><td> </td><td class="right">   When multiple S-BFD CV Types are advertised, and after applying the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l5" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 7, line 8</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r5" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 6, line 32</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   number CV Type, and the CV Type with the lowest list number is used:</td><td> </td><td class="right">   number CV Type, and the CV Type with the lowest list number is used:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   1.  TBD1 - S-BFD IP/UDP-encapsulated, for PW Fault Detection only.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   1.  TBD1 - S-BFD IP/UDP-encapsulated, for PW Fault Detection only.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   2.  TBD2 - S-BFD PW-ACH/ L2SS-encapsulated (without IP/UDP headers),</td><td> </td><td class="right">   2.  TBD2 - S-BFD PW-ACH/ L2SS-encapsulated (without IP/UDP headers),</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">       for PW Fault Detection only.</td><td> </td><td class="right">       for PW Fault Detection only.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   The order of capability selection between S-BFD and BFD is defined as</td><td> </td><td class="right">   The order of capability selection between S-BFD and BFD is defined as</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   follows:</td><td> </td><td class="right">   follows:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0026" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+----------------+</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">+----------------------------+---------+----------+-----------------+</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   | Advertised capabilities  |  BFD <span class="delete">Only</span> | SBFD <span class="delete">Only</span> | Both S-BFD and |</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   | Advertised capabilities <span class="insert">of</span> |   BFD   |   SBFD   |  Both S-BFD and |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   |       <span class="delete">of</span> PE1/ PE2        |           |           |      BFD       |</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   |          PE1/ PE2          |   <span class="insert">Only</span>  |   <span class="insert">Only</span>   |       BFD       |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+----------------+</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">+----------------------------+---------+----------+-----------------+</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |         BFD Only         |    BFD    |    None   |    BFD Only    |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |         BFD Only         |    BFD    |    None   |    BFD Only    |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0027" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   |                          |           |  (Note1)  |                |</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                          |           |           |                |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                          |           |           |                |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |        S-BFD Only        |    None   |   S-BFD   |   S-BFD only   |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |        S-BFD Only        |    None   |   S-BFD   |   S-BFD only   |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0028" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   |                          |  (Note1)  |           |                |</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   |                          |           |           |                |</td><td> </td><td class="right">   |                          |           |           |                |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0029" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   |    Both S-BFD and BFD    |  BFD <span class="delete">only</span> |   S-BFD   | Both SBFD and  |</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   |     Both S-BFD and BFD     |   BFD   |  S-BFD   |  Both SBFD and  |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   |                          |           |    only   |      BFD       |</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   |                            |   <span class="insert">only</span>  |   only   |       BFD       |</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">+--------------------------+-----------+-----------+----------------+</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">+----------------------------+---------+----------+-----------------+</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">          Table 2: Capability Selection Matrix for BFD and S-BFD</td><td> </td><td class="right">          Table 2: Capability Selection Matrix for BFD and S-BFD</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0030" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">Note1: Can we mandate failing the bringup of the PW in case of a</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   capability mismatch?</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">                                                                         </td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">4.  Security Considerations</td><td> </td><td class="right">4.  Security Considerations</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0031" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   Security <span class="delete">measures described</span> in <span class="delete">[RFC5885] and</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   Security <span class="insert">considerations for VCCV are addressed</span> in <span class="insert">Section 10 of</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base]</span> are to <span class="delete">be followed.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   [RFC5085].  The introduction of the S-BFD Connectivity Verification</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   (CV) Types introduces no new security risks for VCCV.  Routers that</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   implement the additional CV Types defined herein</span> are <span class="insert">subject</span> to <span class="insert">the</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   same security considerations as defined in [RFC5085], as well as</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert"></span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   This specification does not raise any additional security issues</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   beyond these.</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">5.  IANA Considerations</td><td> </td><td class="right">5.  IANA Considerations</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">5.1.  MPLS CV Types for the VCCV Interface Parameters Sub-TLV</td><td> </td><td class="right">5.1.  MPLS CV Types for the VCCV Interface Parameters Sub-TLV</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   The VCCV Interface Parameters Sub-TLV codepoint is defined in</td><td> </td><td class="right">   The VCCV Interface Parameters Sub-TLV codepoint is defined in</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   [RFC4446], and the VCCV CV Types registry is defined in [RFC5085].</td><td> </td><td class="right">   [RFC4446], and the VCCV CV Types registry is defined in [RFC5085].</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   This section lists the new BFD CV Types.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   This section lists the new BFD CV Types.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   IANA has augmented the "VCCV Connectivity Verification (CV) Types"</td><td> </td><td class="right">   IANA has augmented the "VCCV Connectivity Verification (CV) Types"</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   registry in the Pseudowire Name Spaces reachable from [IANA].  These</td><td> </td><td class="right">   registry in the Pseudowire Name Spaces reachable from [IANA].  These</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0032" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   are bitfield values.  CV Type values <span class="delete">TBD</span> are specified in Section 2</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   are bitfield values.  CV Type values are specified in Section 2 of</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   of this document.</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   this document.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">         MPLS Connectivity Verification (CV) Types:</td><td> </td><td class="right">         MPLS Connectivity Verification (CV) Types:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      Bit (Value)  Description                       Reference</td><td> </td><td class="right">      Bit (Value)  Description                       Reference</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      ===========  ===========                       ==============</td><td> </td><td class="right">      ===========  ===========                       ==============</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">      TBD1(0xY)    S-BFD IP/UDP-encapsulated,        this document</td><td> </td><td class="right">      TBD1(0xY)    S-BFD IP/UDP-encapsulated,        this document</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                   for PW Fault Detection only</td><td> </td><td class="right">                   for PW Fault Detection only</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0033" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">      TBD2(0xZ)    S-BFD PW-ACH<span class="delete">/L2SS-encapsulated,</span>   this document</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">      TBD2(0xZ)    S-BFD PW-ACH<span class="insert">-encapsulated,     </span>   this document</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                   for PW Fault Detection only</td><td> </td><td class="right">                   for PW Fault Detection only</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">5.2.  L2TPv3 CV Types for the VCCV Capability AVP</td><td> </td><td class="right">5.2.  L2TPv3 CV Types for the VCCV Capability AVP</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   This section lists the new requests for S-BFD CV Types to be added to</td><td> </td><td class="right">   This section lists the new requests for S-BFD CV Types to be added to</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   the existing "VCCV Capability AVP" registry in the L2TP name spaces.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   the existing "VCCV Capability AVP" registry in the L2TP name spaces.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   The Layer Two Tunneling Protocol "L2TP" Name Spaces are reachable</td><td> </td><td class="right">   The Layer Two Tunneling Protocol "L2TP" Name Spaces are reachable</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   from [IANA].  IANA is requested to assign the following L2TPv3</td><td> </td><td class="right">   from [IANA].  IANA is requested to assign the following L2TPv3</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Connectivity Verification (CV) Types in the VCCV Capability AVP</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Connectivity Verification (CV) Types in the VCCV Capability AVP</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Values registry.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Values registry.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l6" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 8, line 48</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r6" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 8, line 30</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   allocate the following Channel Types in the "MPLS Generalized</td><td> </td><td class="right">   allocate the following Channel Types in the "MPLS Generalized</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Associated Channel (G-ACh) Types" registry:</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Associated Channel (G-ACh) Types" registry:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   IANA has reserved a new Pseudowire Associated Channel Type value as</td><td> </td><td class="right">   IANA has reserved a new Pseudowire Associated Channel Type value as</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   follows:</td><td> </td><td class="right">   follows:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Registry:</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Registry:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                                                TLV</td><td> </td><td class="right">                                                TLV</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">    Value   Description                         Follows  Reference</td><td> </td><td class="right">    Value   Description                         Follows  Reference</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">    ------  ----------------------------------  -------  ---------------</td><td> </td><td class="right">    ------  ----------------------------------  -------  ---------------</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0034" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">    TBD<span class="delete">2</span>    S-BFD Control, PW-ACH/L2SS          No       [This document]</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">    TBD<span class="insert">3</span>    S-BFD Control, PW-ACH/L2SS          No       [This document]</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">            encapsulation</td><td> </td><td class="right">            encapsulation</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">            (without IP/UDP Headers)</td><td> </td><td class="right">            (without IP/UDP Headers)</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">6.  Acknowledgements</td><td> </td><td class="right">6.  Acknowledgements</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0035" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">Authors</span> would like to thank Nobo Akiya, Stewart Bryant, Pawel</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">The authors</span> would like to thank Nobo Akiya, Stewart Bryant, <span class="insert">Greg</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   Sowinski <span class="delete">and Greg Mirsky</span> for providing <span class="delete">the core inputs of</span> this</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">   Mirsky, and</span> Pawel Sowinski for providing <span class="insert">input to</span> this document and</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   document and for performing thorough reviews and providing number of</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   for performing thorough reviews and providing number of comments.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   comments.  <span class="delete">Authors</span> would also like to thank Yuanlong for comments</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">The authors</span> would also like to thank Yuanlong for comments received.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   received.</td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">7.  Contributing Authors</td><td> </td><td class="right">7.  Contributing Authors</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Mallik Mudigonda</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Mallik Mudigonda</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Cisco Systems</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Cisco Systems</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Email: mmudigon@cisco.com</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Email: mmudigon@cisco.com</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">8.  References</td><td> </td><td class="right">8.  References</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">8.1.  Normative References</td><td> </td><td class="right">8.1.  Normative References</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0036" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">   <span class="delete">[I-D.akiya-bfd-seamless-alert-discrim]</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">              Akiya, N., Pignataro, C., and D. Ward, "Seamless</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">              Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD) Alert</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">              Discriminator", draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-alert-discrim-03</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"><span class="delete">              (work in progress), October 2014.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">                                                                         </td><td> </td><td class="rblock"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base]</td><td> </td><td class="right">   [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base]</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              Akiya, N., Pignataro, C., Ward, D., Bhatia, M., and J.</td><td> </td><td class="right">              Akiya, N., Pignataro, C., Ward, D., Bhatia, M., and J.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              Networks, "Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection</td><td> </td><td class="right">              Networks, "Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              (S-BFD)", draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base-05 (work in</td><td> </td><td class="right">              (S-BFD)", draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base-05 (work in</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              progress), June 2015.</td><td> </td><td class="right">              progress), June 2015.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   [I-D.ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator]</td><td> </td><td class="right">   [I-D.ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator]</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              Govindan, V. and C. Pignataro, "Advertising S-BFD</td><td> </td><td class="right">              Govindan, V. and C. Pignataro, "Advertising S-BFD</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              Discriminators in L2TPv3", draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-</td><td> </td><td class="right">              Discriminators in L2TPv3", draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              discriminator-02 (work in progress), January 2016.</td><td> </td><td class="right">              discriminator-02 (work in progress), January 2016.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l7" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 10, line 27</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r7" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> page 10, line 7</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              &lt;http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5880&gt;.</td><td> </td><td class="right">              &lt;http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5880&gt;.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   [RFC5885]  Nadeau, T., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., "Bidirectional</td><td> </td><td class="right">   [RFC5885]  Nadeau, T., Ed. and C. Pignataro, Ed., "Bidirectional</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              Forwarding Detection (BFD) for the Pseudowire Virtual</td><td> </td><td class="right">              Forwarding Detection (BFD) for the Pseudowire Virtual</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)", RFC 5885,</td><td> </td><td class="right">              Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)", RFC 5885,</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              DOI 10.17487/RFC5885, June 2010,</td><td> </td><td class="right">              DOI 10.17487/RFC5885, June 2010,</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              &lt;http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5885&gt;.</td><td> </td><td class="right">              &lt;http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5885&gt;.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">8.2.  Informative References</td><td> </td><td class="right">8.2.  Informative References</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0037" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">   <span class="insert">[I-D.akiya-bfd-seamless-alert-discrim]</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">              Akiya, N., Pignataro, C., and D. Ward, "Seamless</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">              Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD) Alert</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">              Discriminator", draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-alert-discrim-03</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">              (work in progress), October 2014.</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">                                                                         </td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   [IANA]     Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, "Protocol</td><td> </td><td class="right">   [IANA]     Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, "Protocol</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">              Registries", &lt;http://www.iana.org&gt;.</td><td> </td><td class="right">              Registries", &lt;http://www.iana.org&gt;.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Authors' Addresses</td><td> </td><td class="right">Authors' Addresses</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Vengada Prasad Govindan</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Vengada Prasad Govindan</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Cisco Systems</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Cisco Systems</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Email: venggovi@cisco.com</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Email: venggovi@cisco.com</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>

     <tr><td></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td></td></tr>
     <tr bgcolor="gray"><th colspan="5" align="center"><a name="end">&nbsp;End of changes. 37 change blocks.&nbsp;</a></th></tr>
     <tr class="stats"><td></td><th><i>81 lines changed or deleted</i></th><th><i> </i></th><th><i>77 lines changed or added</i></th><td></td></tr>
     <tr><td colspan="5" align="center" class="small"><br/>This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.32. The latest version is available from <a href="http://www.levkowetz.com/ietf/tools/rfcdiff/" >http://www.levkowetz.com/ietf/tools/rfcdiff/</a> </td></tr>
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Feb 9, 2016, at 4:29 AM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Andy and all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">After reading the draft<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D"">I do not =
support its progression in its present state</u>.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The main reason for =
that is that two important issues are denoted as TBD in the draft:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><u class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">S-BFD Reflector Demultiplexing</span></u><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>(Section 2.2.2.1). =
&nbsp;This issue should be really easy to resolve IMHO (unless I am =
missing something important), since:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">a.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Demultiplexing of S-BFD packets is described in detail in =
Section 7.1 of the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base-05" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Base =
S-BFD draft</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">b.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Additionally, I would expect that just one S-BFD session per =
PW is required. Unfortunately the draft does not say anything about this =
issue<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">2.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><u class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">S-BFD Reflector advertisement of target discriminators using =
LDP</span></u><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>(Section 2.2.2.3).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">a.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">=46rom my POV leaving this issue unresolved effectively means =
that S-BFD cannot be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, since the =
draft states (in Section 2.2.2, 1<sup class=3D"">st</sup><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>para) that =E2=80=9C<i =
class=3D""><span style=3D"background-color: yellow; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D"">When as =
pseudowire signaling protocol such as LDP or L2TPv3 is in use the S-BFD =
Reflector advertises its target discriminators using &nbsp;that =
signaling protocol</span></i>=E2=80=9D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">b.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">It =
should be noticed that advertisement of target discriminators using L2TP =
is resolved in the document. So closing the issue with LDP should not be =
too complicated.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I also find it strange =
that<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u =
class=3D"">Section 2.2.2 refers to a TBD Section of the Base S-BFD =
draft</u><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>for the =
definition of setting the BFD Protocol fields by the S-BFD Reflector. To =
the best of my understanding references<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><i class=3D"">to two =
different sections</i><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>of the base S-BFD draft =
(7.3.2 and 7.8) should be used there.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I will review the draft =
again once the current gaps are closed.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Sasha<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Office: =
+972-39266302<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Pals [<a =
href=3D"mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Andrew G. =
Malis<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, February 08, 2016 =
5:17 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[Pals] PALS Working Group =
Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">This is =
the&nbsp;PALS&nbsp;Working&nbsp;Group&nbsp;Last&nbsp;Call&nbsp;for&nbsp;</=
span>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You can find the draft at:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><u class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(17, 85, 204);" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a=
></span></u><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Because of the subject matter, =
this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit =
comments to the PALS list only.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">This&nbsp;last&nbsp;call&nbsp;will run for two weeks, ending =
on February 22.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the =
draft and support publication, even if you don't have any specific =
comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especially =
from BFD and/or VCCV experts.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Andy and =
Stewart</span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 08:02:11 -0500
Message-ID: <CAA=duU1mgs5m9a-zqzmcUMsrK==U9JSt0MSY1ac5-fGjD8VuhQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
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Cc: "Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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--001a113de07c1abb47052b55ee1d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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Sasha, Carlos, et al,

It=E2=80=99s great to see substantive discussion of the draft. I=E2=80=99m =
going to leave
the last call open for the two weeks, and then ask Carlos to upload a new
revision based on the results. If we=E2=80=99ve got good consensus on the l=
ist at
that point, I=E2=80=99ll be able to forward the draft to the IESG. If there=
=E2=80=99s still
ongoing discussion, then we can have a second WG LC.

Thanks,
Andy


On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

> Carlos,
>
> Lots of thanks for a prompt response.
>
>
>
> Please see some comments on the proposed changes inline below.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein
> *Cc:* Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for
> draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>
>
>
> [removing "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org> as originally requested
> by Andy]
>
>
>
> Sasha,
>
>
>
> Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are for=
.
>
>
>
> I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML Diff=
s
> attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.
>
> *[[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect th=
e
> WG LC to be done on the posted version of the draft, of course.*
>
>
>
> Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s our=
 disposition and
> follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are some TBDs that you misse=
d
> but we are also fixing.
>
>
>
> 1.a. Yes, this is our new text:
>
>
>
> 2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing
>
>
>
>    Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following
>
>    the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>
>
>
> 1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, blockin=
g
> future uses and ideas.
>
> *[[Sasha]] It is up to you and your co-authors to decide whether more tha=
n
> one S-BFD session per PW is required, of course.  The text you=E2=80=99ve=
 proposed
> seems a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base draft states
> that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received Your
> Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context could =
be
> interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap for differe=
nt
> PWs. Is this indeed your intent?  *
>
> This is actually something that is being solved directly in the
> bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all
> dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.
>
> *[[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you refer. *
>
>
>
> 2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. It
> is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are
> specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to
> specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this
> paragraph to clarity:
>
>
>
> 2.2.2.3.  Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP
>
>
>
>    The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for
>
>    further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used with
>
>    signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD
>
>    discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other
>
>    means.
>
>
>
> In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9C=
can advertise"
>
> *[[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual configuratio=
n
> of the target discriminator from the remote side of a signaled PW is a
> reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, the common practice
> with signaled PWs is that you learn all the information associated with t=
he
> remote endpoint via signaling. From my POV if one of the S-BFD CV types i=
s
> signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, it should be accompanied by the rang=
e
> of target discriminators. Alternatively you could restrict the draft for
> just one S-BFD session per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases)
> and use some hard-coded target discriminator value. *
>
>
>
> 2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not requiring =
at this point?
>
> *[[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWs**J**=
=E2=80=A6*
>
> Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # di=
rectly.
>
> *[[Sasha]] My objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a
> draft that is currently under IESG consideration. You can provide specifi=
c
> section number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the current
> state definitely looks strange**J**=E2=80=A6*
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>
>
>

--001a113de07c1abb47052b55ee1d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Sasha, Carlos, et al,<div><br></div><div>It=E2=80=99s grea=
t to see substantive discussion of the draft. I=E2=80=99m going to leave th=
e last call open for the two weeks, and then ask Carlos to upload a new rev=
ision based on the results. If we=E2=80=99ve got good consensus on the list=
 at that point, I=E2=80=99ll be able to forward the draft to the IESG. If t=
here=E2=80=99s still ongoing discussion, then we can have a second WG LC.</=
div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 9, 2016=
 at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:A=
lexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@eci=
tele.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Carlos,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Lots of thanks for a prom=
pt response.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Please see some comments =
on the proposed changes inline below.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=
=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Sasha<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Office: <a href=3D"tel:%2=
B972-39266302" value=3D"+97239266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"tel:%2B972-549266302" value=3D"+972549266302" targe=
t=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.V=
ainshtein@ecitele.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
</span><div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Carlos P=
ignataro (cpignata) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D=
"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Andrew G. Malis; <a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">pals@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals=
-seamless-vccv-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[removing=C2=A0&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg=
-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt; as originally req=
uested by Andy]<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sasha,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This =
is what WGLCs are for.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. Y=
ou can find HTML Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy sign=
als us to.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[[Sasha]] We=
ll, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect the WG LC to be d=
one on the posted version of the draft, of course.</span></i></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=
=9D. Here=E2=80=99s our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note t=
hat there are some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.a. Yes, this is our new text:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">2.2.2.1.=C2=A0 D=
emultiplexing<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Dem=
ultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the=
 procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no=
 real reason, blocking future uses and ideas.
<span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[[Sasha]] It=
 is up to you and your co-authors to decide whether more than one S-BFD ses=
sion per PW is required, of course.=C2=A0 The text you=E2=80=99ve proposed =
seems
 a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base draft states that t=
he Reflector always demultiplexes based on received Your Discriminator valu=
e. Adding that this is done using the PW context could be interpreted as if=
 advertised Discriminator values
 can overlap for different PWs. Is this indeed your intent? =C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></span></i></b></p><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is actually something that is being solved dire=
ctly in the bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to=
 all dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[[Sasha]] No=
t sure to which DISCUSS you refer.
</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2.a. Incorrect.=C2=A0S-BFD can be used with signaled=
 PWs over an MPLS PSN. It is just not specified on how it is advertised wit=
h LDP TLVs. We are specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you=
 are free to specify the LDP distribution
 of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding this paragraph to clarity:<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">2.2.2.3.=C2=A0 A=
dvertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The=
 advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">=C2=A0=C2=A0 fur=
ther study.=C2=A0 It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used with<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">=C2=A0=C2=A0 sig=
naled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">=C2=A0=C2=A0 dis=
criminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Andale Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914">=C2=A0=C2=A0 mea=
ns.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=
=9D should be =E2=80=9Ccan advertise&quot;<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[[Sasha]] So=
rry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual configuration of the target=
 discriminator from the remote side of a signaled PW is a reasonable
 approach. To the best of my recollection, the common practice with signale=
d PWs is that you learn all the information associated with the remote endp=
oint via signaling. From my POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by=
 a Reflector PW endpoint, it should
 be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. Alternatively you co=
uld restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session per PW (probably covering=
 99.99% of the use cases) and use some hard-coded target discriminator valu=
e.
</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something =
we are not requiring at this point?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">[[Sasha]] One re=
ason is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWs</span></i></b><b><i><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span></i></b><b><i><span=
 style=3D"color:#1f497d">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to re=
move the section # directly.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[[Sasha]] My=
 objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a draft that is curr=
ently under IESG consideration. You can provide specific section
 number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the current state defin=
itely looks strange</span></i></b><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span></i></b><b><i><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#=
1f497d">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=94 Carlos.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113de07c1abb47052b55ee1d--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 17:30:07 +0000
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Cc: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Sounds good Andy.

I also appreciate the interest and the useful comments.

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

> On Feb 9, 2016, at 8:02 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Sasha, Carlos, et al,
>=20
> It=E2=80=99s great to see substantive discussion of the draft. I=E2=80=99=
m going to leave the last call open for the two weeks, and then ask =
Carlos to upload a new revision based on the results. If we=E2=80=99ve =
got good consensus on the list at that point, I=E2=80=99ll be able to =
forward the draft to the IESG. If there=E2=80=99s still ongoing =
discussion, then we can have a second WG LC.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Andy
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>> wrote:
> Carlos,
>=20
> Lots of thanks for a prompt response.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please see some comments on the proposed changes inline below.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Sasha
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Office: +972-39266302 <tel:%2B972-39266302>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <tel:%2B972-549266302>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>=20
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
>=20
>=20
> [removing "rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" =
<rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>> as originally requested by =
Andy]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are =
for.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML =
Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.
>=20
> [[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect =
the WG LC to be done on the posted version of the draft, of course.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s =
our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are =
some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 1.a. Yes, this is our new text:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing
>=20
>=20
>=20
>    Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following
>=20
>    the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, =
blocking future uses and ideas.
>=20
> [[Sasha]] It is up to you and your co-authors to decide whether more =
than one S-BFD session per PW is required, of course.  The text you=E2=80=99=
ve proposed seems a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base =
draft states that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received =
Your Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context =
could be interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap =
for different PWs. Is this indeed your intent?
>=20
> This is actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.
>=20
> [[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you refer.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. =
It is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2.2.2.3.  Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP
>=20
>=20
>=20
>    The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for
>=20
>    further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with
>=20
>    signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD
>=20
>    discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other
>=20
>    means.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9C=
can advertise"
>=20
> [[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual =
configuration of the target discriminator from the remote side of a =
signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, =
the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn all the =
information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my =
POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, =
it should be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. =
Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session =
per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use some =
hard-coded target discriminator value.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not =
requiring at this point?
>=20
> [[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWsJ=E2=80=
=A6
>=20
> Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # =
directly.
>=20
> [[Sasha]] My objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a =
draft that is currently under IESG consideration. You can provide =
specific section number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the =
current state definitely looks strangeJ=E2=80=A6
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Sounds good Andy.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I also appreciate the interest and the useful =
comments.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=
=94 Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2016, at 8:02 AM, =
Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Sasha, Carlos, et al,<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It=E2=80=99s great to =
see substantive discussion of the draft. I=E2=80=99m going to leave the =
last call open for the two weeks, and then ask Carlos to upload a new =
revision based on the results. If we=E2=80=99ve got good consensus on =
the list at that point, I=E2=80=99ll be able to forward the draft to the =
IESG. If there=E2=80=99s still ongoing discussion, then we can have a =
second WG LC.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D"">Andy</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 6:39 AM, Alexander =
Vainshtein <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Carlos,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Lots of thanks for a prompt response.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Please see some comments on the =
proposed changes inline below.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Regards,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Sasha<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Office: <a href=3D"tel:%2B972-39266302" =
value=3D"+97239266302" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">+972-39266302</a><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"tel:%2B972-549266302" value=3D"+972549266302" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">+972-549266302</a><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</span><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;" class=3D""> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a>]
<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b> Andrew G. Malis; <a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[removing&nbsp;"<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt; as originally =
requested by Andy]<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sasha,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for reviewing and for =
your comments! This is what WGLCs are for.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</span><div class=3D""><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe =
our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML Diffs =
attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to =
decide. Personally I would expect the WG LC to be done on the posted =
version of the draft, of course.</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Indeed, we are cleaning up the =
=E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s our disposition and follow-ups to =
your concerns. Note that there are some TBDs that you missed but we are =
also fixing.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.a. Yes, this is our new text:<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">2.2.2.1.&nbsp; =
Demultiplexing<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</span><div class=3D""><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">1.b. Why? =
I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, blocking future =
uses and ideas.
<span style=3D"color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] It is up to you and your =
co-authors to decide whether more than one S-BFD session per PW is =
required, of course.&nbsp; The text you=E2=80=99ve proposed seems
 a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base draft states =
that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received Your =
Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context could =
be interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values
 can overlap for different PWs. Is this indeed your intent? &nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></i></b></p><span class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">This is actually something that is being solved =
directly in the bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will =
apply to all dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from =
Alvaro.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you =
refer.
</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">2.a. Incorrect.&nbsp;S-BFD can be =
used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. It is just not specified on how =
it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are specifying the protocol =
constructs we are using, but you are free to specify the LDP =
distribution
 of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding this paragraph to =
clarity:<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">2.2.2.3.&nbsp; =
Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
further study.&nbsp; It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:black"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Andale =
Mono&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#29f914" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
means.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</span><div class=3D""><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the =
highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Ccan =
advertise"<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do =
not think that manual configuration of the target discriminator from the =
remote side of a signaled PW is a reasonable
 approach. To the best of my recollection, the common practice with =
signaled PWs is that you learn all the information associated with the =
remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my POV if one of the S-BFD CV =
types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, it should
 be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. Alternatively you =
could restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session per PW (probably =
covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use some hard-coded target =
discriminator value.
</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=
=80=9D something we are not requiring at this point?&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</span><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><i =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color:#1f497d" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] One reason =
is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWs</span></i></b><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d" =
class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:#1f497d" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Additional =
comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # directly.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] My objection was about a =
reference to the TBD section in a draft that is currently under IESG =
consideration. You can provide specific section
 number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the current state =
definitely looks strange</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d" =
class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=94 Carlos.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Sasha,

Thanks for the follow-up, and the useful comments. Please see inline.

> On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>=20
> Carlos,
> Lots of thanks for a prompt response.
>=20
> Please see some comments on the proposed changes inline below.
>=20
> Regards,
> Sasha
>=20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> [removing "rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" =
<rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>> as originally requested by =
Andy]
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
> Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are =
for.
>=20
> I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML =
Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.
> [[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect =
the WG LC to be done on the posted version of the draft, of course.
>=20
> Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s =
our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are =
some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.
>=20
> 1.a. Yes, this is our new text:
>=20
> 2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing
>=20
>    Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following
>    the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
> 1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, =
blocking future uses and ideas.
> [[Sasha]] It is up to you and your co-authors to decide whether more =
than one S-BFD session per PW is required, of course.  The text you=E2=80=99=
ve proposed seems a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base =
draft states that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received =
Your Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context =
could be interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap =
for different PWs. Is this indeed your intent?

See the response that follows below regarding multiple discriminators.

The uniqueness bit is well covered in Section 4.1. of =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled "S-BFD Discriminator Uniqueness"

> This is actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.
> [[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you refer.

Apologies for the lack of precision and not giving enough context. I =
meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD document in the document set, =
about ISIS.

The net-net of that discussion (which happened not in PALS but on =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to all the bfd-seamelss =
documents, is the addition of the following text:

   The use of multiple S-BFD discriminators by a single network node is
   outside the scope of this document.

Since that text applies to draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a =
Normative reference to this document, that should address your comment.

>=20
> 2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. =
It is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:
>=20
> 2.2.2.3.  Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP
>=20
>    The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for
>    further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with
>    signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD
>    discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other
>    means.
>=20
> In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9C=
can advertise"
> [[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual =
configuration of the target discriminator from the remote side of a =
signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, =
the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn all the =
information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my =
POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, =
it should be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. =
Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session =
per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use some =
hard-coded target discriminator value.

Sasha, it seems to me you are mixing up two independent issues, and =
sprinkling some misconceptions on top.

Let me attempt to clarify.

First, this document concerns itself with:

   This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification
   (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
   (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to define
   Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.

It does not attempt to solve the distribution of S-BFD discriminators. =
It does list potential ways of doing it, and in the case of L2TPv3, a =
preferred one.

For MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of distributing discriminators. =
Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, traditional BFD uses MPLS LSP =
Ping for doing the discriminator learning, and not, say, LDP.

The second topic being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per PW, which I =
believe was the previous comment.

The additional clarification is that you talk about a =E2=80=9Crange of =
target discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 but there is not such a thing =
as a =E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.

[BTW, I had pointed to you in a separate thread on a separate document =
that strictly following common practice is a wonderful recipe to not =
innovate :-) Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing technical merits, but =
=E2=80=98common practice is to signal=E2=80=99 does not seem to stand on =
firm ground]

Net-net, specifying CV Type is independent of how discriminators are =
learned.

>=20
> 2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not =
requiring at this point?
> [[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWsJ=E2=80=
=A6

Please see above.

Reality is that there is a document specifying a way to distribute =
discriminators for L2TPv3, but for LDP-based PWs, it has not been =
studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the document says.

If further says that any way in which these are learned, it is =
orthogonal to the CV VCCV advertisement.

If this is not clear from the document, which is absolutely possible, =
would you please propose some text?

Another alternative is to define only the L2TPv3 CVs and forget the MPLS =
ones. I believe we are going the extra mile in defining the most general =
approach.

> Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # =
directly.
> [[Sasha]] My objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a =
draft that is currently under IESG consideration. You can provide =
specific section number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the =
current state definitely looks strangeJ=E2=80=A6
>=20

I understood. As I said, removing the section # is best.

The current text reads:

      S-BFD Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be
      according to the specifications of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].

Thanks,

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.


--Apple-Mail=_BE52B6C7-17E2-4B2B-B221-A45CC79D206A
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks for the follow-up, and the useful comments. Please see =
inline.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
 class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander =
Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Carlos,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Lots of thanks for a =
prompt response.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Please see some =
comments on the proposed changes inline below.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Sasha<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Office: =
+972-39266302<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata) [<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
1:18 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">[removing&nbsp;"<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt; as originally requested by Andy]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Sasha,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thank you for reviewing and for your =
comments! This is what WGLCs are for.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I believe our working copy fixes all =
these issues. You can find HTML Diffs attached to this email, we can =
submit when Andy signals us to.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to =
decide. Personally I would expect the WG LC to be done on the posted =
version of the draft, of course.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. =
Here=E2=80=99s our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note =
that there are some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">1.a. Yes, this is our new text:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">2.2.2.1.&nbsp; Demultiplexing<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW =
context, following<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; the procedures in Section 7.1 =
of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no =
real reason, blocking future uses and ideas.<span style=3D"color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] It is up to you and your =
co-authors to decide whether more than one S-BFD session per PW is =
required, of course.&nbsp; The text you=E2=80=99ve proposed seems a bit =
ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base draft states that the =
Reflector always demultiplexes based on received Your Discriminator =
value. Adding that this is done using the PW context could be =
interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap for =
different PWs. Is this indeed your intent? =
&nbsp;</span></i></b></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>See the response that follows below regarding multiple =
discriminators.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The uniqueness bit =
is well covered in Section 4.1. of draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled =
"S-BFD Discriminator Uniqueness"</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></i></b></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">This is actually something that is being solved directly in =
the bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Not =
sure to which DISCUSS you =
refer.</span></i></b></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Apologies for the lack of precision and not giving =
enough context. I meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD document in =
the document set, about ISIS.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The =
net-net of that discussion (which happened not in PALS but on =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to all the bfd-seamelss =
documents, is the addition of the following text:</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div>&nbsp; &nbsp;The use of multiple S-BFD discriminators =
by a single network node is<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;outside =
the&nbsp;scope&nbsp;of this document.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Since that text applies =
to&nbsp;draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a Normative reference =
to this document, that should address your comment.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">2.a. =
Incorrect.&nbsp;S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. It =
is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">2.2.2.3.&nbsp; Advertisement of Target Discriminators using =
LDP<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; The advertisement of the =
target discriminator using LDP is left for<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
further study.&nbsp; It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning =
of the S-BFD<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; discriminators or by learning the S-BFD =
discriminators by other<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; means.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D =
should be =E2=80=9Ccan advertise"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not =
think that manual configuration of the target discriminator from the =
remote side of a signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my =
recollection, the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn =
all the information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =
=46rom my POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW =
endpoint, it should be accompanied by the range of target =
discriminators. Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one =
S-BFD session per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use =
some hard-coded target discriminator value.</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Sasha, it seems to me you are mixing up two =
independent issues, and sprinkling some misconceptions on =
top.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Let me attempt to =
clarify.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>First, this document =
concerns itself with:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;This document extends the procedures and Connectivity =
Verification<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;(CV) types already defined for =
Bidirectional Forwarding Detection<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;(BFD) for =
Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to define<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div>It does not attempt to solve the distribution of =
S-BFD discriminators. It does list potential ways of doing it, and in =
the case of L2TPv3, a preferred one.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>For MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of =
distributing discriminators. Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, =
traditional BFD uses MPLS LSP Ping for doing the discriminator learning, =
and not, say, LDP.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The second topic =
being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per PW, which I believe was the =
previous comment.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The additional =
clarification is that you talk about a =E2=80=9Crange of target =
discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 but there is not such a thing as a =
=E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>[BTW, I had =
pointed to you in a separate thread on a separate document that strictly =
following common practice is a wonderful recipe to not innovate :-) =
Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing technical merits, but =E2=80=98common =
practice is to signal=E2=80=99 does not seem to stand on firm =
ground]</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Net-net, specifying CV Type =
is independent of how discriminators are learned.</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something =
we are not requiring at this point?&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue =
for L2TPv3 PWs</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b></div></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br class=3D""></div><div>Please see above.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Reality is that there is a document specifying a =
way to distribute discriminators for L2TPv3, but for LDP-based PWs, it =
has not been studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the document =
says.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>If further says that any way =
in which these are learned, it is orthogonal to the CV VCCV =
advertisement.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>If this is not clear =
from the document, which is absolutely possible, would you please =
propose some text?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Another =
alternative is to define only the L2TPv3 CVs and forget the MPLS ones. I =
believe we are going the extra mile in defining the most general =
approach.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I =
prefer to remove the section # directly.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] My objection was about a =
reference to the TBD section in a draft that is currently under IESG =
consideration. You can provide specific section number(s) or you can =
drop sections altogether, but the current state definitely looks =
strange</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I understood. As I said, removing the section # is =
best.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The current text =
reads:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;S-BFD Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;according to the specifications of =
[I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>=E2=80=94 =
Carlos.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=94 =
Carlos.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Hi, Greg,

Great discussion indeed =E2=80=94 thanks for the comments, definitely =
help.

More inline.

> On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Gregory Mirsky =
<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Carlos, Sasha, et. al,
> very interesting discussion. Hope my in-line comments tagged GIM>> =
would help.
>=20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
>=20
> From: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:26 AM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
> Thanks for the follow-up, and the useful comments. Please see inline.
>=20
> On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Carlos,
> Lots of thanks for a prompt response.
>=20
> Please see some comments on the proposed changes inline below.
>=20
> Regards,
> Sasha
>=20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> [removing "rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" =
<rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>> as originally requested by =
Andy]
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
> Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are =
for.
>=20
> I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML =
Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.
> [[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect =
the WG LC to be done on the posted version of the draft, of course.
>=20
> Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s =
our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are =
some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.
>=20
> 1.a. Yes, this is our new text:
>=20
> 2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing
>=20
>    Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following
>    the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
> 1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, =
blocking future uses and ideas.
> [[Sasha]] It is up to you and your co-authors to decide whether more =
than one S-BFD session per PW is required, of course.  The text you=E2=80=99=
ve proposed seems a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base =
draft states that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received =
Your Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context =
could be interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap =
for different PWs. Is this indeed your intent?
>=20
> See the response that follows below regarding multiple discriminators.
>=20
> The uniqueness bit is well covered in Section 4.1. of =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled "S-BFD Discriminator Uniqueness"
> GIM>> I=E2=80=99ll differentiate SS-PW and MS-PW use cases. I think =
that regardless of S-BFD discriminator used multiple S-BFD over SS-PW =
would be breaking requirement expressed in Section 2 RFC 5881:
>    Each BFD session between a pair of systems MUST traverse a separate
>    network-layer path in both directions.  This is necessary for
>    demultiplexing to work properly, and also because (by definition)
>    multiple sessions would otherwise be protecting the same path.
> For MS-PW case, in my view, multiple S-BFD sessions may be used if the =
abovementioned requirement can be complied with.

That=E2=80=99s a very good point, note that the doc clarifies this is =
scoped for SS-PW: =E2=80=9CThis document concerns itself with the S-BFD =
VCCV operation over single-segment pseudowires (SS-PWs)."

I do not think that RFC 5881 applies (since that is Traditional BFD for =
Single IP Hops), but I do see why you=E2=80=99d extrapolate.

>=20
> This is actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.
> [[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you refer.
>=20
> Apologies for the lack of precision and not giving enough context. I =
meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD document in the document set, =
about ISIS.
>=20
> The net-net of that discussion (which happened not in PALS but on =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to all the bfd-seamelss =
documents, is the addition of the following text:
>=20
>    The use of multiple S-BFD discriminators by a single network node =
is
>    outside the scope of this document.
>=20
> Since that text applies to draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a =
Normative reference to this document, that should address your comment.
>=20
>=20
> 2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. =
It is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:
>=20
> 2.2.2.3.  Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP
>=20
>    The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for
>    further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with
>    signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD
>    discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other
>    means.
>=20
> In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9C=
can advertise"
> [[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual =
configuration of the target discriminator from the remote side of a =
signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, =
the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn all the =
information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my =
POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, =
it should be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. =
Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session =
per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use some =
hard-coded target discriminator value.
>=20
> Sasha, it seems to me you are mixing up two independent issues, and =
sprinkling some misconceptions on top.
>=20
> Let me attempt to clarify.
>=20
> First, this document concerns itself with:
>=20
>    This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification
>    (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
>    (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to =
define
>    Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.
>=20
> It does not attempt to solve the distribution of S-BFD discriminators. =
It does list potential ways of doing it, and in the case of L2TPv3, a =
preferred one.
>=20
> For MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of distributing discriminators. =
Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, traditional BFD uses MPLS LSP =
Ping for doing the discriminator learning, and not, say, LDP.
> GIM>> BFD bootstrap in RFC 5884 required to establish mapping between =
source and discriminator thus avoiding ambiguity resulting from PHP or =
use of explicit null label. I believe that there=E2=80=99s no apparent =
need to use LSP bootstrap for VCCV (S-)BFD.
>=20

Correct.

> The second topic being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per PW, which =
I believe was the previous comment.
>=20
> The additional clarification is that you talk about a =E2=80=9Crange =
of target discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 but there is not such a =
thing as a =E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> [BTW, I had pointed to you in a separate thread on a separate document =
that strictly following common practice is a wonderful recipe to not =
innovate :-) Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing technical merits, but =
=E2=80=98common practice is to signal=E2=80=99 does not seem to stand on =
firm ground]
>=20
> Net-net, specifying CV Type is independent of how discriminators are =
learned.
>=20
> GIM>> I agree, that enhancing list of available CV Types is necessary =
to enable use of S-BFD over PW. And I agree with Sasha that providing =
companion extension to LDP in this document is logical thing to expect =
since L2TPv3 extension already documented. Perhaps moving proposal =
regarding L2TPv3 extension into a new document that would include, at =
some day, LDP extension to advertise S-BFD Discriminator (or group of =
them) may be viable option to consider.


There=E2=80=99s a slight misunderstanding.

This document, draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01, only includes CV Types =
for MPLS and L2TPv3.

A separate document, draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator, specifies =
the Discriminator advertisement using L2TPv3.

This is good document modularity.

If someone is interested in the S-BFD Discriminator advertisement using =
LDP, then by all means he or she should pursue it.

So, the L2TPv3 extensions are *not* documented in this document. They =
are moved out already into an L2TPEXT document. There is no plan to =
include LDP into that document, any day.

Thanks!

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

>=20
> 2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not =
requiring at this point?
> [[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWsJ=E2=80=
=A6
>=20
> Please see above.
>=20
> Reality is that there is a document specifying a way to distribute =
discriminators for L2TPv3, but for LDP-based PWs, it has not been =
studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the document says.
>=20
> If further says that any way in which these are learned, it is =
orthogonal to the CV VCCV advertisement.
>=20
> If this is not clear from the document, which is absolutely possible, =
would you please propose some text?
>=20
> Another alternative is to define only the L2TPv3 CVs and forget the =
MPLS ones. I believe we are going the extra mile in defining the most =
general approach.
>=20
>=20
> Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # =
directly.
> [[Sasha]] My objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a =
draft that is currently under IESG consideration. You can provide =
specific section number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the =
current state definitely looks strangeJ=E2=80=A6
>=20
>=20
> I understood. As I said, removing the section # is best.
>=20
> The current text reads:
>=20
>       S-BFD Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be
>       according to the specifications of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_1E3FCB00-F1F4-436A-A185-F07ECD75BF52
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi, Greg,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Great discussion indeed =E2=80=94 thanks for the comments, =
definitely help.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">More inline.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Feb 9, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
class=3D"">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi =
Carlos, Sasha, et. al,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">very interesting discussion. Hope my in-line comments tagged =
GIM&gt;&gt; would help.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Pals [<a =
href=3D"mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata)<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
10:26 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for the follow-up, and the useful comments. =
Please see inline.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Carlos,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Lots of thanks for a prompt =
response.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Please see some comments on the proposed =
changes inline below.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Regards,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Sasha</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Office: =
+972-39266302</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</span></a></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
1:18 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">[removing&nbsp;"<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; as originally requested by =
Andy]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Sasha,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thank you for reviewing and for your =
comments! This is what WGLCs are for.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I believe our working copy fixes all =
these issues. You can find HTML Diffs attached to this email, we can =
submit when Andy signals us to.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Well, this is =
for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect the WG LC to be done on =
the posted version of the draft, of course.</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Indeed, we are cleaning up the =
=E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s our disposition and follow-ups to =
your concerns. Note that there are some TBDs that you missed but we are =
also fixing.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">1.a. Yes, this is our new text:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">2.2.2.1.&nbsp; Demultiplexing</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, =
following</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly =
limiting for no real reason, blocking future uses and ideas.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">[[Sasha]] It is up to you and your co-authors to decide =
whether more than one S-BFD session per PW is required, of course.&nbsp; =
The text you=E2=80=99ve proposed seems a bit ambiguous to me because =
Section 7.1. of the base draft states that the Reflector always =
demultiplexes based on received Your Discriminator value. Adding that =
this is done using the PW context could be interpreted as if advertised =
Discriminator values can overlap for different PWs. Is this indeed your =
intent? &nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">See the response that follows below regarding multiple =
discriminators.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">The uniqueness bit is well covered in Section 4.1. of =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled "S-BFD Discriminator =
Uniqueness"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; I=E2=80=99ll differentiate SS-PW and MS-PW use =
cases. I think that regardless of S-BFD discriminator used multiple =
S-BFD over SS-PW would be breaking requirement expressed in Section 2 =
RFC 5881:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; Each BFD session between a pair of systems MUST =
traverse a separate<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; network-layer path in both directions.&nbsp; =
This is necessary for<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; demultiplexing to work properly, and also =
because (by definition)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; multiple sessions would otherwise be protecting =
the same path.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">For=
 MS-PW case, in my view, multiple S-BFD sessions may be used if the =
abovementioned requirement can be complied with.</span><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>That=E2=80=99s a very good point, note that the =
doc clarifies this is scoped for SS-PW: =E2=80=9CThis document concerns =
itself with the S-BFD VCCV operation over single-segment pseudowires =
(SS-PWs)."</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I do not think that RFC =
5881 applies (since that is Traditional BFD for Single IP Hops), but I =
do see why you=E2=80=99d extrapolate.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This is actually =
something that is being solved directly in the bfs-seamless-base =
specification, so that solution will apply to all dependent documents, =
this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you =
refer.</span></i></b><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Apologies for the lack of precision and not giving =
enough context. I meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD document in =
the document set, about ISIS.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">The net-net of that discussion (which happened not in =
PALS but on draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to all the =
bfd-seamelss documents, is the addition of the following text:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;The use of multiple S-BFD discriminators =
by a single network node is<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;outside =
the&nbsp;scope&nbsp;of this document.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Since that text applies =
to&nbsp;draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a Normative reference =
to this document, that should address your comment.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">2.a. =
Incorrect.&nbsp;S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. It =
is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">2.2.2.3.&nbsp; =
Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left =
for</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; further study.&nbsp; It =
should be noted that S-BFD can still be used with</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning =
of the S-BFD</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by =
other</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; means.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertise=
s=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Ccan advertise"<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual =
configuration of the target discriminator from the remote side of a =
signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, =
the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn all the =
information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my =
POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, =
it should be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. =
Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session =
per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use some =
hard-coded target discriminator value.</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Sasha, it seems to me you are mixing up two =
independent issues, and sprinkling some misconceptions on top.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Let me attempt to clarify.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">First, this document concerns itself =
with:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;">&nbsp; &nbsp;This document extends the procedures and =
Connectivity Verification<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;(CV) types already =
defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;(BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to =
define<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">It does not attempt to solve the distribution of S-BFD =
discriminators. It does list potential ways of doing it, and in the case =
of L2TPv3, a preferred one.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">For MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of distributing =
discriminators. Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, traditional BFD =
uses MPLS LSP Ping for doing the discriminator learning, and not, say, =
LDP.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; BFD bootstrap in RFC 5884 =
required to establish mapping between source and discriminator thus =
avoiding ambiguity resulting from PHP or use of explicit null label. I =
believe that there=E2=80=99s no apparent need to use LSP bootstrap for =
VCCV (S-)BFD.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br class=3D""></div><div>Correct.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The =
second topic being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per PW, which I =
believe was the previous comment.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">The additional clarification is that you talk about a =
=E2=80=9Crange of target discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 but there is =
not such a thing as a =E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">[BTW, I had pointed to you in a separate =
thread on a separate document that strictly following common practice is =
a wonderful recipe to not innovate :-) Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing =
technical merits, but =E2=80=98common practice is to signal=E2=80=99 =
does not seem to stand on firm ground]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Net-net, specifying CV Type is =
independent of how discriminators are learned.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt;=
 I agree, that enhancing list of available CV Types is necessary to =
enable use of S-BFD over PW. And I agree with Sasha that providing =
companion extension to LDP in this document is logical thing to expect =
since L2TPv3 extension already documented. Perhaps moving proposal =
regarding L2TPv3 extension into a new document that would include, at =
some day, LDP extension to advertise S-BFD Discriminator (or group of =
them) may be viable option to =
consider.</span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>There=E2=80=99s a slight =
misunderstanding.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>This =
document,&nbsp;draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01, only includes CV Types =
for MPLS and L2TPv3.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>A separate =
document, draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator, specifies the =
Discriminator advertisement using L2TPv3.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>This is good document modularity.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>If someone is interested in the S-BFD =
Discriminator advertisement using LDP, then by all means he or she =
should pursue it.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>So, the L2TPv3 =
extensions are *not* documented in this document. They are moved out =
already into an L2TPEXT document. There is no plan to include LDP into =
that document, any day.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>=E2=80=94=
 Carlos.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">2.b. =
Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not requiring at =
this point?&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">[[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for =
L2TPv3 PWs</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Please see above.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Reality is that there is a document specifying a way =
to distribute discriminators for L2TPv3, but for LDP-based PWs, it has =
not been studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the document says.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If further says that any way in which =
these are learned, it is orthogonal to the CV VCCV advertisement.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If this is not clear from the document, =
which is absolutely possible, would you please propose some text?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Another alternative is to define only the =
L2TPv3 CVs and forget the MPLS ones. I believe we are going the extra =
mile in defining the most general approach.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the =
section # directly.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] My objection was about a =
reference to the TBD section in a draft that is currently under IESG =
consideration. You can provide specific section number(s) or you can =
drop sections altogether, but the current state definitely looks =
strange</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">I understood. As I said, removing the section # is =
best.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">The current text reads:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;S-BFD Reflector =
operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;according to the specifications of =
[I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=
=94 Carlos.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Cc: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Sasha,

This is a great question!

My initial reaction is that FAT PWs are out of scope for this document =
as far as multiple S-BFD discriminators. FAW PWs are not considered or =
included in RFC 5885, so I think FAT PW work should scope both BFD and =
S-BFD. They are considered but only as far as =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391#section-7

I will add a sentence about it.

Thanks,

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

> On Feb 10, 2016, at 2:22 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>=20
> Greg, Carlos and all,
> Just a short question:
> Are FAT PWs in scope for this work?
> IMHO they should be -because they provide a good use case for multiple =
S-BFD sessions per PW.
>=20
> Of course this may be left FFS - but worth mentioning as such if you =
think it is relevant.
>=20
> My 2c
>=20
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>=20
> ------ Original message ------
> From: Gregory Mirsky
> Date: 10/02/2016 04:18
> To: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata);
> Cc: Alexander Vainshtein;Andrew G. Malis;pals@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals@ietf.org>;
> Subject:RE: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Hi Carlos,
> thank you for the most expedient response and your kind consideration =
of my comments.
> Yes, MS-PW out the scope of this work =E2=80=93 point taken.
> Reading the diff rather than the document in its entirety is bit of a =
challenge. I second Sasha and encourage authors to publish the updated =
version.
>=20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 6:00 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky
> Cc: Alexander Vainshtein; Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Hi, Greg,
>=20
> Great discussion indeed =E2=80=94 thanks for the comments, definitely =
help.
>=20
> More inline.
>=20
> On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Gregory Mirsky =
<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Carlos, Sasha, et. al,
> very interesting discussion. Hope my in-line comments tagged GIM>> =
would help.
>=20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
>=20
> From: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:26 AM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
> Thanks for the follow-up, and the useful comments. Please see inline.
>=20
> On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Carlos,
> Lots of thanks for a prompt response.
>=20
> Please see some comments on the proposed changes inline below.
>=20
> Regards,
> Sasha
>=20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> [removing "rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" =
<rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>> as originally requested by =
Andy]
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
> Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are =
for.
>=20
> I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML =
Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.
> [[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect =
the WG LC to be done on the posted version of the draft, of course.
>=20
> Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s =
our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are =
some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.
>=20
> 1.a. Yes, this is our new text:
>=20
> 2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing
>=20
>    Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following
>    the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
> 1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, =
blocking future uses and ideas.
> [[Sasha]] It is up to you and your co-authors to decide whether more =
than one S-BFD session per PW is required, of course.  The text you=E2=80=99=
ve proposed seems a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base =
draft states that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received =
Your Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context =
could be interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap =
for different PWs. Is this indeed your intent?
>=20
> See the response that follows below regarding multiple discriminators.
>=20
> The uniqueness bit is well covered in Section 4.1. of =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled "S-BFD Discriminator Uniqueness"
> GIM>> I=E2=80=99ll differentiate SS-PW and MS-PW use cases. I think =
that regardless of S-BFD discriminator used multiple S-BFD over SS-PW =
would be breaking requirement expressed in Section 2 RFC 5881:
>    Each BFD session between a pair of systems MUST traverse a separate
>    network-layer path in both directions.  This is necessary for
>    demultiplexing to work properly, and also because (by definition)
>    multiple sessions would otherwise be protecting the same path.
> For MS-PW case, in my view, multiple S-BFD sessions may be used if the =
abovementioned requirement can be complied with.
>=20
> That=E2=80=99s a very good point, note that the doc clarifies this is =
scoped for SS-PW: =E2=80=9CThis document concerns itself with the S-BFD =
VCCV operation over single-segment pseudowires (SS-PWs)."
>=20
> I do not think that RFC 5881 applies (since that is Traditional BFD =
for Single IP Hops), but I do see why you=E2=80=99d extrapolate.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> This is actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.
> [[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you refer.
>=20
> Apologies for the lack of precision and not giving enough context. I =
meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD document in the document set, =
about ISIS.
>=20
> The net-net of that discussion (which happened not in PALS but on =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to all the bfd-seamelss =
documents, is the addition of the following text:
>=20
>    The use of multiple S-BFD discriminators by a single network node =
is
>    outside the scope of this document.
>=20
> Since that text applies to draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a =
Normative reference to this document, that should address your comment.
>=20
>=20
> 2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. =
It is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:
>=20
> 2.2.2.3.  Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP
>=20
>    The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for
>    further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with
>    signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD
>    discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other
>    means.
>=20
> In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9C=
can advertise"
> [[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual =
configuration of the target discriminator from the remote side of a =
signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, =
the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn all the =
information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my =
POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, =
it should be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. =
Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session =
per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use some =
hard-coded target discriminator value.
>=20
> Sasha, it seems to me you are mixing up two independent issues, and =
sprinkling some misconceptions on top.
>=20
> Let me attempt to clarify.
>=20
> First, this document concerns itself with:
>=20
>    This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification
>    (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
>    (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to =
define
>    Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.
>=20
> It does not attempt to solve the distribution of S-BFD discriminators. =
It does list potential ways of doing it, and in the case of L2TPv3, a =
preferred one.
>=20
> For MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of distributing discriminators. =
Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, traditional BFD uses MPLS LSP =
Ping for doing the discriminator learning, and not, say, LDP.
> GIM>> BFD bootstrap in RFC 5884 required to establish mapping between =
source and discriminator thus avoiding ambiguity resulting from PHP or =
use of explicit null label. I believe that there=E2=80=99s no apparent =
need to use LSP bootstrap for VCCV (S-)BFD.
>=20
>=20
> Correct.
>=20
>=20
> The second topic being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per PW, which =
I believe was the previous comment.
>=20
> The additional clarification is that you talk about a =E2=80=9Crange =
of target discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 but there is not such a =
thing as a =E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> [BTW, I had pointed to you in a separate thread on a separate document =
that strictly following common practice is a wonderful recipe to not =
innovate :-) Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing technical merits, but =
=E2=80=98common practice is to signal=E2=80=99 does not seem to stand on =
firm ground]
>=20
> Net-net, specifying CV Type is independent of how discriminators are =
learned.
>=20
> GIM>> I agree, that enhancing list of available CV Types is necessary =
to enable use of S-BFD over PW. And I agree with Sasha that providing =
companion extension to LDP in this document is logical thing to expect =
since L2TPv3 extension already documented. Perhaps moving proposal =
regarding L2TPv3 extension into a new document that would include, at =
some day, LDP extension to advertise S-BFD Discriminator (or group of =
them) may be viable option to consider.
>=20
>=20
> There=E2=80=99s a slight misunderstanding.
>=20
> This document, draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01, only includes CV =
Types for MPLS and L2TPv3.
>=20
> A separate document, draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator, specifies =
the Discriminator advertisement using L2TPv3.
>=20
> This is good document modularity.
>=20
> If someone is interested in the S-BFD Discriminator advertisement =
using LDP, then by all means he or she should pursue it.
>=20
> So, the L2TPv3 extensions are *not* documented in this document. They =
are moved out already into an L2TPEXT document. There is no plan to =
include LDP into that document, any day.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not =
requiring at this point?
> [[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWsJ=E2=80=
=A6
>=20
> Please see above.
>=20
> Reality is that there is a document specifying a way to distribute =
discriminators for L2TPv3, but for LDP-based PWs, it has not been =
studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the document says.
>=20
> If further says that any way in which these are learned, it is =
orthogonal to the CV VCCV advertisement.
>=20
> If this is not clear from the document, which is absolutely possible, =
would you please propose some text?
>=20
> Another alternative is to define only the L2TPv3 CVs and forget the =
MPLS ones. I believe we are going the extra mile in defining the most =
general approach.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # =
directly.
> [[Sasha]] My objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a =
draft that is currently under IESG consideration. You can provide =
specific section number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the =
current state definitely looks strangeJ=E2=80=A6
>=20
>=20
> I understood. As I said, removing the section # is best.
>=20
> The current text reads:
>=20
>       S-BFD Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be
>       according to the specifications of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.


--Apple-Mail=_387A7365-3A55-41DF-B837-5CC56D69E703
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This=
 is a great question!</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">My initial reaction is that FAT PWs are out of scope for this =
document as far as multiple S-BFD discriminators. FAW PWs are not =
considered or included in RFC 5885, so I think FAT PW work should scope =
both BFD and S-BFD. They are considered but only as far as&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391#section-7" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391#section-7</a></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I will add a sentence =
about it.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Feb 10, 2016, at 2:22 AM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Greg, Carlos and all,</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Just a short =
question:&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Are FAT PWs in scope for this work?</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">IMHO they =
should be -because they provide a good use case for multiple S-BFD =
sessions per PW.</div><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Of course this may be left FFS - but worth mentioning as such =
if you think it is relevant.</div><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">My 2c</div><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><dev3_jjy class=3D"">Thumb =
typed on my LG,<br class=3D"">Sasha</dev3_jjy><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">------ Original message ------<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:&nbsp;</b>Gregory Mirsky<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;</b>10/02/2016 =
04:18<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:&nbsp;</b>Carlos Pignataro =
(cpignata);<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:&nbsp;</b>Alexander =
Vainshtein;Andrew G. Malis;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a>;<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b>RE: =
[Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Carlos,</span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">thank you for the most =
expedient response and your kind consideration of my =
comments.</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Yes, MS-PW out the scope of this work =E2=80=
=93 point taken.</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Reading the diff rather than the document =
in its entirety is bit of a challenge. I second Sasha and encourage =
authors to publish the updated version.</span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg</span></div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
[<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
6:00 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein; =
Andrew G. Malis;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</span></div></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Hi, Greg,</div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Great discussion indeed =E2=80=94 thanks for the =
comments, definitely help.</div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">More =
inline.</div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p><div class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
class=3D"">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Carlos, Sasha, et. =
al,</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">very interesting =
discussion. Hope my in-line comments tagged GIM&gt;&gt; would =
help.</span></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,</span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg</span></div></=
div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Pals [<a =
href=3D"mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata)<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
10:26 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</span></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks=
 for the follow-up, and the useful comments. Please see =
inline.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</span></a>&gt; =
wrote:</div></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Carlos,</span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Lots of thanks for a prompt =
response.</span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Please see some comments on the proposed =
changes inline below.</span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Regards,</span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Sasha</span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Office: =
+972-39266302</span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Cell: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+972-549266302</span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Email: &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</span></a></span></div></div><=
/div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
1:18 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</span></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">[removing "<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; as originally =
requested by Andy]</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,</div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thank you for =
reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are =
for.</div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I believe our working =
copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML Diffs attached to this =
email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.</div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] =
Well, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect the WG LC to =
be done on the posted version of the draft, of =
course.</span></i></b></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Indeed, we are =
cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s our disposition =
and follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are some TBDs that you =
missed but we are also fixing.</div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">1.a. Yes, this is our =
new text:</div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">2.2.2.1. =
&nbsp;Demultiplexing</span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using =
the PW context, following</span></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the =
procedures in Section 7.1 of =
[I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</span></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">1.b. =
Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, blocking =
future uses and ideas.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] It is up to =
you and your co-authors to decide whether more than one S-BFD session =
per PW is required, of course. &nbsp;The text you=E2=80=99ve proposed =
seems a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base draft =
states that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received Your =
Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context could =
be interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap for =
different PWs. Is this indeed your intent? =
&nbsp;</span></i></b></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">See the response that follows below regarding multiple =
discriminators.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The =
uniqueness bit is well covered in Section 4.1. of =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled "S-BFD Discriminator =
Uniqueness"</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; I=E2=80=99ll differentiate SS-PW and MS-PW use =
cases. I think that regardless of S-BFD discriminator used multiple =
S-BFD over SS-PW would be breaking requirement expressed in Section 2 =
RFC 5881:</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Each BFD session between a pair of systems =
MUST traverse a separate</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;network-layer path in both directions. =
&nbsp;This is necessary for</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;demultiplexing to work properly, and also =
because (by definition)</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple sessions would otherwise be =
protecting the same path.</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">For MS-PW case, in my view, multiple S-BFD sessions may be =
used if the abovementioned requirement can be complied =
with.</span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">That=E2=80=99s a very =
good point, note that the doc clarifies this is scoped for SS-PW: =
=E2=80=9CThis document concerns itself with the S-BFD VCCV operation =
over single-segment pseudowires (SS-PWs)."</div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I do not think that =
RFC 5881 applies (since that is Traditional BFD for Single IP Hops), but =
I do see why you=E2=80=99d extrapolate.</div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This =
is actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from =
Alvaro.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you =
refer.</span></i></b></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Apologies for the lack of precision and =
not giving enough context. I meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD =
document in the document set, about ISIS.</div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The net-net of that discussion (which =
happened not in PALS but on draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to =
all the bfd-seamelss documents, is the addition of the following =
text:</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The =
use of multiple S-BFD discriminators by a single network node is<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;outside the scope of this =
document.</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Since =
that text applies to draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a =
Normative reference to this document, that should address your =
comment.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD =
can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. It is just not specified =
on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are specifying the protocol =
constructs we are using, but you are free to specify the LDP =
distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding this paragraph =
to clarity:</div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">2.2.2.3. =
&nbsp;Advertisement of Target Discriminators using =
LDP</span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;"><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale =
Mono', serif; color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The =
advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left =
for</span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;further study. &nbsp;It =
should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with</span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;signaled PWs over an =
MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the =
S-BFD</span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;discriminators or by =
learning the S-BFD discriminators by =
other</span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: 'Andale Mono', serif; color: =
rgb(41, 249, 20);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;means.</span></div></div></div></div></div><d=
iv class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">In =
the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Ccan =
advertise"</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not =
think that manual configuration of the target discriminator from the =
remote side of a signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my =
recollection, the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn =
all the information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =
=46rom my POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW =
endpoint, it should be accompanied by the range of target =
discriminators. Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one =
S-BFD session per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use =
some hard-coded target discriminator =
value.</span></i></b></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Sasha, it seems to me you are mixing up =
two independent issues, and sprinkling some misconceptions on =
top.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Let =
me attempt to clarify.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">First,=
 this document concerns itself with:</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This document extends the procedures =
and Connectivity Verification<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(CV) types =
already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity =
Verification (VCCV) to define<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Seamless =
BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.</p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">It does not attempt to solve the =
distribution of S-BFD discriminators. It does list potential ways of =
doing it, and in the case of L2TPv3, a preferred =
one.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">For =
MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of distributing discriminators. =
Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, traditional BFD uses MPLS LSP =
Ping for doing the discriminator learning, and not, say, =
LDP.</div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; BFD bootstrap in RFC 5884 =
required to establish mapping between source and discriminator thus =
avoiding ambiguity resulting from PHP or use of explicit null label. I =
believe that there=E2=80=99s no apparent need to use LSP bootstrap for =
VCCV (S-)BFD.</span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Correct.</div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">The second topic being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per =
PW, which I believe was the previous comment.</div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The additional clarification is that you =
talk about a =E2=80=9Crange of target discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 =
but there is not such a thing as a =E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.</div></div></d=
iv><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">[BTW, I had pointed to you in a separate =
thread on a separate document that strictly following common practice is =
a wonderful recipe to not innovate :-) Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing =
technical merits, but =E2=80=98common practice is to signal=E2=80=99 =
does not seem to stand on firm ground]</div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Net-net, specifying CV Type is =
independent of how discriminators are learned.</div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; I agree, that =
enhancing list of available CV Types is necessary to enable use of S-BFD =
over PW. And I agree with Sasha that providing companion extension to =
LDP in this document is logical thing to expect since L2TPv3 extension =
already documented. Perhaps moving proposal regarding L2TPv3 extension =
into a new document that would include, at some day, LDP extension to =
advertise S-BFD Discriminator (or group of them) may be viable option to =
consider.</span></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">There=E2=80=99s a =
slight misunderstanding.</div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">This document, draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01, only =
includes CV Types for MPLS and L2TPv3.</div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">A separate document, =
draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator, specifies the Discriminator =
advertisement using L2TPv3.</div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This is good document =
modularity.</div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">If someone is interested in the S-BFD Discriminator =
advertisement using LDP, then by all means he or she should pursue =
it.</div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">So, the L2TPv3 extensions are *not* documented in this =
document. They are moved out already into an L2TPEXT document. There is =
no plan to include LDP into that document, any day.</div></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks!</div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">2.b. =
Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not requiring at =
this point?&nbsp;</div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">[[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for =
L2TPv3 PWs</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Please see above.</div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Reality is that there is a document =
specifying a way to distribute discriminators for L2TPv3, but for =
LDP-based PWs, it has not been studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the =
document says.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If =
further says that any way in which these are learned, it is orthogonal =
to the CV VCCV advertisement.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If this is not clear from the document, =
which is absolutely possible, would you please propose some =
text?</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Another alternative is to define only the L2TPv3 CVs and =
forget the MPLS ones. I believe we are going the extra mile in defining =
the most general approach.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the =
section # directly.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] My objection was about a =
reference to the TBD section in a draft that is currently under IESG =
consideration. You can provide specific section number(s) or you can =
drop sections altogether, but the current state definitely looks =
strange</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I understood. As I said, removing the =
section # is best.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The =
current text reads:</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;S-BFD Reflector operation =
for BFD protocol fields MUST be<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;according to the =
specifications of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=
=94 Carlos.</div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks,</div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=
=94 =
Carlos.</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com></span></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Sasha,

Another good point =E2=80=94 instead of leaving up for interpretation, =
we should explain the implication directly in the PALS draft.

I think that specifically, we should call out the single disc per PW =E2=80=
=94 connecting with your other email, things like FAT PWs are good cases =
for multiple disc per PW, but there needs to be an interoperable way of =
establishing the mapping of Flow to S-BFD Disc.

Thanks,

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

> On Feb 10, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>=20
> Carlos and all,
> I have looked up the latest (-07) revision of the base S-BFD draft =
that has been posted today.
>=20
> One of the changes when compared to the previous version is in the =
last para of Section 3. It says:
>=20
> When a node allocates multiple S-BFD discriminators, how remote nodes =
determine which of the discriminators is associated with a specific
> entity is currently unspecified.  The use of multiple S-BFD =
discriminators by a single network node is therefore discouraged  until =
a means of learning the mapping is defined.
>=20
> I wonder how this (admittedly, non-normative) statement should  be =
interpreted in the context of the draft we are discussing, especially =
for signaled PWs over MPLS PSN.
>=20
> Regards,
> Sasha
>=20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>=20
> From: Alexander Vainshtein
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:22 AM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Greg, Carlos and all,
> Just a short question:
> Are FAT PWs in scope for this work?
> IMHO they should be -because they provide a good use case for multiple =
S-BFD sessions per PW.
>=20
> Of course this may be left FFS - but worth mentioning as such if you =
think it is relevant.
>=20
> My 2c
>=20
> Thumb typed on my LG,
> Sasha
>=20
> ------ Original message ------
> From: Gregory Mirsky
> Date: 10/02/2016 04:18
> To: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata);
> Cc: Alexander Vainshtein;Andrew G. Malis;pals@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals@ietf.org>;
> Subject:RE: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Hi Carlos,
> thank you for the most expedient response and your kind consideration =
of my comments.
> Yes, MS-PW out the scope of this work =E2=80=93 point taken.
> Reading the diff rather than the document in its entirety is bit of a =
challenge. I second Sasha and encourage authors to publish the updated =
version.
>=20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 6:00 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky
> Cc: Alexander Vainshtein; Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Hi, Greg,
>=20
> Great discussion indeed =E2=80=94 thanks for the comments, definitely =
help.
>=20
> More inline.
>=20
> On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Gregory Mirsky =
<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Carlos, Sasha, et. al,
> very interesting discussion. Hope my in-line comments tagged GIM>> =
would help.
>=20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
>=20
> From: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:26 AM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
> Thanks for the follow-up, and the useful comments. Please see inline.
>=20
> On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Carlos,
> Lots of thanks for a prompt response.
>=20
> Please see some comments on the proposed changes inline below.
>=20
> Regards,
> Sasha
>=20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>=20
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com =
<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 1:18 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein
> Cc: Andrew G. Malis; pals@ietf.org <mailto:pals@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for =
draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>=20
> [removing "rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" =
<rtg-bfd@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>> as originally requested by =
Andy]
>=20
> Sasha,
>=20
> Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what WGLCs are =
for.
>=20
> I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can find HTML =
Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals us to.
> [[Sasha]] Well, this is for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect =
the WG LC to be done on the posted version of the draft, of course.
>=20
> Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. Here=E2=80=99s =
our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note that there are =
some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.
>=20
> 1.a. Yes, this is our new text:
>=20
> 2.2.2.1.  Demultiplexing
>=20
>    Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved using the PW context, following
>    the procedures in Section 7.1 of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
> 1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real reason, =
blocking future uses and ideas.
> [[Sasha]] It is up to you and your co-authors to decide whether more =
than one S-BFD session per PW is required, of course.  The text you=E2=80=99=
ve proposed seems a bit ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base =
draft states that the Reflector always demultiplexes based on received =
Your Discriminator value. Adding that this is done using the PW context =
could be interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap =
for different PWs. Is this indeed your intent?
>=20
> See the response that follows below regarding multiple discriminators.
>=20
> The uniqueness bit is well covered in Section 4.1. of =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled "S-BFD Discriminator Uniqueness"
> GIM>> I=E2=80=99ll differentiate SS-PW and MS-PW use cases. I think =
that regardless of S-BFD discriminator used multiple S-BFD over SS-PW =
would be breaking requirement expressed in Section 2 RFC 5881:
>    Each BFD session between a pair of systems MUST traverse a separate
>    network-layer path in both directions.  This is necessary for
>    demultiplexing to work properly, and also because (by definition)
>    multiple sessions would otherwise be protecting the same path.
> For MS-PW case, in my view, multiple S-BFD sessions may be used if the =
abovementioned requirement can be complied with.
>=20
> That=E2=80=99s a very good point, note that the doc clarifies this is =
scoped for SS-PW: =E2=80=9CThis document concerns itself with the S-BFD =
VCCV operation over single-segment pseudowires (SS-PWs)."
>=20
> I do not think that RFC 5881 applies (since that is Traditional BFD =
for Single IP Hops), but I do see why you=E2=80=99d extrapolate.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> This is actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.
> [[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you refer.
>=20
> Apologies for the lack of precision and not giving enough context. I =
meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD document in the document set, =
about ISIS.
>=20
> The net-net of that discussion (which happened not in PALS but on =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to all the bfd-seamelss =
documents, is the addition of the following text:
>=20
>    The use of multiple S-BFD discriminators by a single network node =
is
>    outside the scope of this document.
>=20
> Since that text applies to draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a =
Normative reference to this document, that should address your comment.
>=20
>=20
> 2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN. =
It is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP TLVs. We are =
specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you are free to =
specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99m adding =
this paragraph to clarity:
>=20
> 2.2.2.3.  Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP
>=20
>    The advertisement of the target discriminator using LDP is left for
>    further study.  It should be noted that S-BFD can still be used =
with
>    signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by provisioning of the S-BFD
>    discriminators or by learning the S-BFD discriminators by other
>    means.
>=20
> In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9C=
can advertise"
> [[Sasha]] Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual =
configuration of the target discriminator from the remote side of a =
signaled PW is a reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, =
the common practice with signaled PWs is that you learn all the =
information associated with the remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my =
POV if one of the S-BFD CV types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, =
it should be accompanied by the range of target discriminators. =
Alternatively you could restrict the draft for just one S-BFD session =
per PW (probably covering 99.99% of the use cases) and use some =
hard-coded target discriminator value.
>=20
> Sasha, it seems to me you are mixing up two independent issues, and =
sprinkling some misconceptions on top.
>=20
> Let me attempt to clarify.
>=20
> First, this document concerns itself with:
>=20
>    This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification
>    (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
>    (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to =
define
>    Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.
>=20
> It does not attempt to solve the distribution of S-BFD discriminators. =
It does list potential ways of doing it, and in the case of L2TPv3, a =
preferred one.
>=20
> For MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of distributing discriminators. =
Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, traditional BFD uses MPLS LSP =
Ping for doing the discriminator learning, and not, say, LDP.
> GIM>> BFD bootstrap in RFC 5884 required to establish mapping between =
source and discriminator thus avoiding ambiguity resulting from PHP or =
use of explicit null label. I believe that there=E2=80=99s no apparent =
need to use LSP bootstrap for VCCV (S-)BFD.
>=20
>=20
> Correct.
>=20
>=20
> The second topic being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per PW, which =
I believe was the previous comment.
>=20
> The additional clarification is that you talk about a =E2=80=9Crange =
of target discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 but there is not such a =
thing as a =E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> [BTW, I had pointed to you in a separate thread on a separate document =
that strictly following common practice is a wonderful recipe to not =
innovate :-) Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing technical merits, but =
=E2=80=98common practice is to signal=E2=80=99 does not seem to stand on =
firm ground]
>=20
> Net-net, specifying CV Type is independent of how discriminators are =
learned.
>=20
> GIM>> I agree, that enhancing list of available CV Types is necessary =
to enable use of S-BFD over PW. And I agree with Sasha that providing =
companion extension to LDP in this document is logical thing to expect =
since L2TPv3 extension already documented. Perhaps moving proposal =
regarding L2TPv3 extension into a new document that would include, at =
some day, LDP extension to advertise S-BFD Discriminator (or group of =
them) may be viable option to consider.
>=20
>=20
> There=E2=80=99s a slight misunderstanding.
>=20
> This document, draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01, only includes CV =
Types for MPLS and L2TPv3.
>=20
> A separate document, draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator, specifies =
the Discriminator advertisement using L2TPv3.
>=20
> This is good document modularity.
>=20
> If someone is interested in the S-BFD Discriminator advertisement =
using LDP, then by all means he or she should pursue it.
>=20
> So, the L2TPv3 extensions are *not* documented in this document. They =
are moved out already into an L2TPEXT document. There is no plan to =
include LDP into that document, any day.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2.b. Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not =
requiring at this point?
> [[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue for L2TPv3 PWsJ=E2=80=
=A6
>=20
> Please see above.
>=20
> Reality is that there is a document specifying a way to distribute =
discriminators for L2TPv3, but for LDP-based PWs, it has not been =
studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the document says.
>=20
> If further says that any way in which these are learned, it is =
orthogonal to the CV VCCV advertisement.
>=20
> If this is not clear from the document, which is absolutely possible, =
would you please propose some text?
>=20
> Another alternative is to define only the L2TPv3 CVs and forget the =
MPLS ones. I believe we are going the extra mile in defining the most =
general approach.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the section # =
directly.
> [[Sasha]] My objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a =
draft that is currently under IESG consideration. You can provide =
specific section number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the =
current state definitely looks strangeJ=E2=80=A6
>=20
>=20
> I understood. As I said, removing the section # is best.
>=20
> The current text reads:
>=20
>       S-BFD Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be
>       according to the specifications of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.


--Apple-Mail=_71199D1E-26D6-4597-B47E-BB5F771C6A7F
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Another good point =E2=80=94 instead of leaving up for =
interpretation, we should explain the implication directly in the PALS =
draft.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I think =
that specifically, we should call out the single disc per PW =E2=80=94 =
connecting with your other email, things like FAT PWs are good cases for =
multiple disc per PW, but there needs to be an interoperable way of =
establishing the mapping of Flow to S-BFD Disc.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Feb 10, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Carlos and all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I =
have looked up the latest (-07) revision of the base S-BFD draft that =
has been posted today.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">One of the changes when =
compared to the previous version is in the last para of Section 3. It =
says:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">When a node =
allocates multiple S-BFD discriminators, how remote nodes determine =
which of the discriminators is associated with a specific<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></i></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">entity is =
currently unspecified.&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"background-color: yellow; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D"">The use of multiple =
S-BFD discriminators by a single network node is therefore discouraged =
&nbsp;until a means of learning the mapping is defined</span>.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></i></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I wonder how this =
(admittedly, non-normative) statement should &nbsp;be interpreted in the =
context of the draft we are discussing, especially for signaled PWs over =
MPLS PSN.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Sasha<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Office: =
+972-39266302<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander =
Vainshtein<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, February 10, =
2016 9:22 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky; Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata)<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Greg, Carlos and =
all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Just a short =
question:&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Are FAT =
PWs in scope for this work?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">IMHO they should be -because they provide a good use case for =
multiple S-BFD sessions per PW.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Of course =
this may be left FFS - but worth mentioning as such if you think it is =
relevant.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">My 2c<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">Thumb typed on my =
LG,<br class=3D"">Sasha<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">------ Original =
message ------<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">From:&nbsp;</b>Gregory =
Mirsky<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;</b>10/02/2016 04:18<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:&nbsp;</b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata);<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:&nbsp;</b>Alexander Vainshtein;Andrew G. =
Malis;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a>;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b>RE: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last =
Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Carlos,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">thank you for the most expedient response =
and your kind consideration of my comments.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Yes, MS-PW out the scope of this work =E2=80=
=93 point taken.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Reading the diff rather =
than the document in its entirety is bit of a challenge. I second Sasha =
and encourage authors to publish the updated version.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid =
none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
[<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
6:00 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein; =
Andrew G. Malis;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi, Greg,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Great discussion indeed =E2=80=94 thanks for the comments, =
definitely help.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">More inline.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Carlos, Sasha, et. al,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">very interesting =
discussion. Hope my in-line comments tagged GIM&gt;&gt; would =
help.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Pals [<a href=3D"mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Carlos =
Pignataro (cpignata)<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
10:26 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks for the follow-up, and the useful =
comments. Please see inline.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Carlos,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Lots of thanks for a prompt response.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Please see some comments on the proposed =
changes inline below.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regards,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Sasha</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Office: +972-39266302</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Cell: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+972-549266302</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Email: &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</span></a></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, February 09, 2016 =
1:18 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Andrew G. Malis;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">pals@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Pals] PALS Working =
Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">[removing "<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; as originally requested by =
Andy]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Sasha,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Thank you for reviewing and for your comments! This is what =
WGLCs are for.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">I believe our working copy fixes all these issues. You can =
find HTML Diffs attached to this email, we can submit when Andy signals =
us to.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Well, this is =
for Andy to decide. Personally I would expect the WG LC to be done on =
the posted version of the draft, of course.</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Indeed, we are cleaning up the =E2=80=9CTBDs=E2=80=9D. =
Here=E2=80=99s our disposition and follow-ups to your concerns. Note =
that there are some TBDs that you missed but we are also fixing.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">1.a. Yes, this is our new text:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">2.2.2.1. =
&nbsp;Demultiplexing</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Demultiplexing of S-BFD is achieved =
using the PW context, following</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the procedures in Section 7.1 of =
[I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">1.b. Why? I do not want to be overly limiting for no real =
reason, blocking future uses and ideas.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] It is up to you and your =
co-authors to decide whether more than one S-BFD session per PW is =
required, of course. &nbsp;The text you=E2=80=99ve proposed seems a bit =
ambiguous to me because Section 7.1. of the base draft states that the =
Reflector always demultiplexes based on received Your Discriminator =
value. Adding that this is done using the PW context could be =
interpreted as if advertised Discriminator values can overlap for =
different PWs. Is this indeed your intent? &nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">See the response that =
follows below regarding multiple discriminators.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The uniqueness bit is well covered in =
Section 4.1. of draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, titled "S-BFD =
Discriminator Uniqueness"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; I=E2=80=99ll =
differentiate SS-PW and MS-PW use cases. I think that regardless of =
S-BFD discriminator used multiple S-BFD over SS-PW would be breaking =
requirement expressed in Section 2 RFC 5881:</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Each BFD session between a pair of systems =
MUST traverse a separate</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;network-layer path in =
both directions. &nbsp;This is necessary for</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;demultiplexing to work properly, and also =
because (by definition)</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;multiple sessions would =
otherwise be protecting the same path.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">For MS-PW =
case, in my view, multiple S-BFD sessions may be used if the =
abovementioned requirement can be complied with.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">That=E2=80=99s a very good point, note that the doc clarifies =
this is scoped for SS-PW: =E2=80=9CThis document concerns itself with =
the S-BFD VCCV operation over single-segment pseudowires (SS-PWs)."<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I do not think that RFC 5881 applies =
(since that is Traditional BFD for Single IP Hops), but I do see why =
you=E2=80=99d extrapolate.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This =
is actually something that is being solved directly in the =
bfs-seamless-base specification, so that solution will apply to all =
dependent documents, this one included. See DISCUSS from Alvaro.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Not sure to which DISCUSS you =
refer.</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Apologies for the lack of precision and =
not giving enough context. I meant a DISCUSS position on another S-BFD =
document in the document set, about ISIS.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The net-net of that discussion (which =
happened not in PALS but on draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, applicable to =
all the bfd-seamelss documents, is the addition of the following =
text:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The use of multiple S-BFD =
discriminators by a single network node is<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;outside the scope of this document.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Since that text applies to =
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base, and that is a Normative reference to this =
document, that should address your comment.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">2.a. Incorrect. S-BFD can be used with signaled PWs over an =
MPLS PSN. It is just not specified on how it is advertised with LDP =
TLVs. We are specifying the protocol constructs we are using, but you =
are free to specify the LDP distribution of S-BFD discriminators. I=E2=80=99=
m adding this paragraph to clarity:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: black;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, 20);" class=3D"">2.2.2.3. =
&nbsp;Advertisement of Target Discriminators using LDP</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The advertisement of the target =
discriminator using LDP is left for</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;further study. &nbsp;It should be =
noted that S-BFD can still be used with</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;signaled PWs over an MPLS PSN, by =
provisioning of the S-BFD</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;discriminators or by learning the =
S-BFD discriminators by other</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: black;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(41, 249, =
20);" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;means.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">In the highlighted text, =E2=80=9Cadvertises=E2=80=9D should =
be =E2=80=9Ccan advertise"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] =
Sorry, but I disagree. I do not think that manual configuration of the =
target discriminator from the remote side of a signaled PW is a =
reasonable approach. To the best of my recollection, the common practice =
with signaled PWs is that you learn all the information associated with =
the remote endpoint via signaling. =46rom my POV if one of the S-BFD CV =
types is signaled by a Reflector PW endpoint, it should be accompanied =
by the range of target discriminators. Alternatively you could restrict =
the draft for just one S-BFD session per PW (probably covering 99.99% of =
the use cases) and use some hard-coded target discriminator =
value.</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Sasha,=
 it seems to me you are mixing up two independent issues, and sprinkling =
some misconceptions on top.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Let =
me attempt to clarify.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">First,=
 this document concerns itself with:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This document extends the procedures =
and Connectivity Verification<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(CV) types =
already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity =
Verification (VCCV) to define<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Seamless =
BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">It does not attempt =
to solve the distribution of S-BFD discriminators. It does list =
potential ways of doing it, and in the case of L2TPv3, a preferred =
one.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">For MPLS, LDP is potentially one way of =
distributing discriminators. Interestingly, if you look at RFC 5884, =
traditional BFD uses MPLS LSP Ping for doing the discriminator learning, =
and not, say, LDP.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; BFD bootstrap in RFC 5884 required to establish =
mapping between source and discriminator thus avoiding ambiguity =
resulting from PHP or use of explicit null label. I believe that =
there=E2=80=99s no apparent need to use LSP bootstrap for VCCV =
(S-)BFD.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Correct.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">The second topic being mixed up is about S-BFD sessions per =
PW, which I believe was the previous comment.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The additional clarification is that you =
talk about a =E2=80=9Crange of target discriminators=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 =
but there is not such a thing as a =E2=80=9Crange=E2=80=9D.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">[BTW, I had pointed to you in a separate =
thread on a separate document that strictly following common practice is =
a wonderful recipe to not innovate :-) Let=E2=80=99s continue discussing =
technical merits, but =E2=80=98common practice is to signal=E2=80=99 =
does not seem to stand on firm ground]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Net-net, specifying CV Type is =
independent of how discriminators are learned.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" class=3D"">GIM&gt;&gt; I agree, that enhancing list of available =
CV Types is necessary to enable use of S-BFD over PW. And I agree with =
Sasha that providing companion extension to LDP in this document is =
logical thing to expect since L2TPv3 extension already documented. =
Perhaps moving proposal regarding L2TPv3 extension into a new document =
that would include, at some day, LDP extension to advertise S-BFD =
Discriminator (or group of them) may be viable option to =
consider.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">There=E2=80=99s a slight =
misunderstanding.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">This document, draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01, only =
includes CV Types for MPLS and L2TPv3.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">A separate document, =
draft-ietf-l2tpext-sbfd-discriminator, specifies the Discriminator =
advertisement using L2TPv3.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">This is good document modularity.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If someone is interested in the S-BFD =
Discriminator advertisement using LDP, then by all means he or she =
should pursue it.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">So, the L2TPv3 extensions are *not* documented in this =
document. They are moved out already into an L2TPEXT document. There is =
no plan to include LDP into that document, any day.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks!<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">2.b. =
Again, why =E2=80=9Cresolve=E2=80=9D something we are not requiring at =
this point?&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] One reason is that you resolve this issue =
for L2TPv3 PWs</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">J</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Please see above.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Reality is that there is a document =
specifying a way to distribute discriminators for L2TPv3, but for =
LDP-based PWs, it has not been studied yet. That=E2=80=99s what the =
document says.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If further says that any way in which =
these are learned, it is orthogonal to the CV VCCV advertisement.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">If this is not clear from the document, =
which is absolutely possible, would you please propose some text?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Another alternative is to define only the =
L2TPv3 CVs and forget the MPLS ones. I believe we are going the extra =
mile in defining the most general approach.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif;"><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Additional comment =E2=80=94 yes, but I prefer to remove the =
section # directly.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] My =
objection was about a reference to the TBD section in a draft that is =
currently under IESG consideration. You can provide specific section =
number(s) or you can drop sections altogether, but the current state =
definitely looks strange</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" class=3D"">J</span></i></b><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=E2=80=A6</span></i></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">I =
understood. As I said, removing the section # is best.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">The current text reads:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;S-BFD =
Reflector operation for BFD protocol fields MUST be<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;according to the =
specifications of [I-D.ietf-bfd-seamless-base].<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=
=94 Carlos.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=94 =
Carlos.</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Fri Feb 12 21:45:14 2016
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References: <56B496CD.7020107@pi.nu>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>, TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: [Pals] Fwd: [mpls] discussion on a common top for yang models related to MPLS
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Working Groups,


This mail was sent on the mpls wg mailing list to trigger a discussion.
It hs been pointed out that participants in other wg's might also be
interested to contribute to this discussion. I therefore forward to the
most likely wg's.

Plese remember that the discussion is intended to take place on the
mpls wg list (mpls@ietf.org).

/Loa

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [mpls] discussion on a common top for yang models related to MPLS
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 20:34:21 +0800
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
To: mpls@ietf.org <mpls@ietf.org>

All,

We have had discussion among the MPLS, TEAS and CCAMP working group
chairs - but as individual contributors, with chair half off. We agree
that this discussion should be taken to the working group(s).

The YANG models for MPLS and GMPLS are quite rapidly taking shape. MPLS
and GMPLS technologies have traditionally been very close, but their
development has been a bit disjoint. For the YANG models we would like
to minimize duplication of models/work and think the structure should
have a common the top,  with specific technologies augmented below.

The structure in general as well as the YANG model at the common top
needs to be the generic and aligned across the output of at least
CCAMP, MPLS and TEAS working groups. There has been good work
progressing on TE specifics, e.g., see draft-ietf-teas-yang-te, but
other areas remain. On the LDP side of the house draft-raza-mpls-
ldp-mldp-yang is rapidly progressing towards working group adoption.

The models defined in draft-saad-mpls-static-yang could serve as the
start on filling some of the remaining gaps; covering core xMPLS
definitions and static LSPs.  There are a number of ways to make the
structure intuitive and generic, and serve as a foundation for
technology specific models.  -- This effort can be viewed as the same
type of work that was done for TE, see draft-ietf-teas-yang-te.

We think it would be a good idea  if the authors and the  WG considers
how to structure xMPLS definitions and static LSPs models to best
foster common use across the different related models being worked on
across  different WGs.

We are sending this mail in hopes of getting this discussion started.

Thank you,
Lou and Loa
-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64



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Subject: [Pals] Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis
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Hello,=20

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. =
The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related =
drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review. The purpose =
of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more =
information about the Routing Directorate, please see =
=E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir=20

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it =
would be helpful if you could consider them as the draft advances, and =
strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.=20

Thanks,
Adrian

=3D=3D=3D

Document: draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03.txt=20
Reviewer: Adrian Farrel
Review Date: 21 February 2016
IETF LC End Date: Not yet started
Intended Status: Internet Standard

=3D Summary =3D

I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be =
resolved before publication.=20

=3D Comments =3D

I'm OK to see 4447 being advanced to full standard, although I'm also a =
little surprised that there was energy to do it.

The work is largely mechanical. My comments are a mix of minor process =
concerns (that your AD should be able to resolve), minor text =
clarifications, and nits.

It's been a while since I was concerned with LDP, but I have no reason =
to doubt the integrity of this document.

=3D Major Issues =3D

No major issues found.=20

=3D Minor Issues =3D

I believe that this document should be marked as obsoleting 4447 and=20
6723. It will result in a new RFC with a new number, so 4447 will no
longer be relevant. And, as Section 1 says: a new section (6.3) on=20
control-word renegotiation by label request message has been added,
obsoleting RFC 6723.

By the way, it is section 7.3 (not 6.3) that you have added!

[NB: Q16 of the Shepherd write-up seems a bit garbled on this front.
Especially "Will publication of this document change the status of any
existing RFCs?" seems to need a much clearer answer!]

---

I'm not up to speed on the new process for advancing a specification to
Internet-Standard when it has normative references that are not=20
similarly advanced/advancing. I do know that the process changed
recently and I am sure that your AD can look it up.

---

It might be a reasonable question to ask why some of the
(informatively) referenced related PW RFCs (such as encapsulations)
are not being advanced at the same time, especially those that are
described as "companion documents".

---

It seems unnecessary petty-fogging process, but the inclusion of
section 7.3 seems to me to defeat the stability requirement for
advancement to Internet Standard unless your claim here is that you
are advancing 4447 and 6723 together in this single document. That
might be fine.

---

The Errata that have been deliberately disregarded need to be marked as
Rejected. I think the ones that have been actioned could usefully be=20
marked as Verified or have a note added saying "fixed in RFCabcd".

As far as I can tell:

3554 was not actioned
938 was done
86 was done
3555 was done
3115 no longer applies
3114 was done
3112 was done
1530 was done

---

Because you (incorrectly) said that section 6.3 was new text, I gave it
careful review. I think the text is in rather poor state:

For example, in 6.3.1...

   Using the procedures
   outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method MAY also be
   supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and AC status.

...Since this is *the* specification now, what does "legacy" mean?

Indeed, you end 6.3.1 with...
   The PW status
   signaling procedures described in this section MUST be fully
   implemented.
...which kind of implies ... hmm.

I think you could rework 6.3.1 to handle this more gracefully and avoid
the "clunk" of the 2nd para...

   Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed and if they

...where we are surprised to hear about status negotiation.

For example:

OLD
   The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers as soon as
   the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regardless of the
   attachment circuit state.  The PW label should not be withdrawn
   unless the operator administratively configures the pseudowire down
   (or the PW configuration is deleted entirely).  Using the procedures
   outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method MAY also be
   supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and AC status.  In
   any case, if the label-to-PW binding is not available the PW MUST be
   considered in the down state.

   Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed and if they
   result in the use of the label withdraw method for PW status
   communication, and this method is not supported by one of the PEs,
   then that PE must send a Label Release Message to its peer with the
   following error:

   "Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported"

   If the label withdraw method for PW status communication is selected
   for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message being
   advertised only if the attachment circuit is active.  The PW status
   signaling procedures described in this section MUST be fully
   implemented.
NEW
   The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers as soon as
   the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regardless of the
   attachment circuit state.  The PW label should not be withdrawn
   unless the operator administratively configures the pseudowire down
   (or the PW configuration is deleted entirely).=20

   Section 6.3.2 describes a mechanism for signaling the status of the=20
   PW and AC.  Additionally, a simple label withdraw method MAY be used=20
   to signal the PW status and AC status.  In any case, if the label-to-
   PW binding is not available the PW MUST be considered to be in the=20
   down state.

   The PEs negotiate which PW and AC status signaling mechanism to use
   by following the procedures in Section 6.3.3.  If the PW negotiation
   procedures are completed and if they result in the use of the simple=20
   label withdraw method for PW status communication, and if this method
   is not supported by one of the PEs then that PE must send a Label
   Release Message to its peer with the following error:

   "Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported"

   If the label withdraw method for PW status communication is selected
   for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message being
   advertised only if the AC is active.
  =20
   The PW status signaling procedures described in Section 6.3.2 MUST be
   fully implemented.
END

---

Section 6.3.2 achieves ambiguity by stating...
   The general format of the Notification Message is:
...and then showing the specific case of "PW status".

You can fix this by re-ordering and tweaking slightly, as follows.

Note that the old text says:
   Since this notification does not
   refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Message Type
   fields are set to 0.
...but I think the Message Type is set to 0x0001 :-)


OLD
   The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via the LDP
   Notification message.  The general format of the Notification Message
   is:

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |0|   Notification (0x0001)     |      Message Length           |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                       Message ID                              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                       Status (TLV)                            |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                      PW Status TLV                            |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |           PWId FEC TLV or Generalized ID FEC TLV              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |               PW Grouping ID TLV (Optional)                   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



   The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, "PW status", to
   indicate that PW status follows.  Since this notification does not
   refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Message Type
   fields are set to 0.
NEW
   The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via the LDP
   Notification message as described in [RFC5036].
  =20
   The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, "PW status", to
   indicate that PW status follows.  The format of the Notification
   Message for carrying the PW Status is as follows:
  =20

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |0|   Notification (0x0001)     |      Message Length           |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                       Message ID                              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                       Status (TLV)                            |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                      PW Status TLV                            |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |           PWId FEC TLV or Generalized ID FEC TLV              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |               PW Grouping ID TLV (Optional)                   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


   Since this notification does not refer to any particular message,
   the Message Id field is set to 0.
END

---

Section 8 could be tidied a little.

The use of "in general" gives the IANA no way to know whether they
should or should not update a reference.=20

Are you sure that you want to remove the nice, concise listing of code
points that are present in RFC 4447?

8.1, 8.2, and 8.3 all say "new". I suggest deleting that word.

And lastly, "IANA needs to..." is not what we say :-) "IANA is requested
to..." is nicer.

[NB: The Shepherd write-up seems to report all this wrongly at Q17]

---

Shouldn't the whole of Section 10 be moved to an interop report
somewhere? It's presence within the document seems somewhat temporally
unstable. I understand that you want to write it down and record it
somewhere, also that you probably developed it in the I-D as a useful=20
place for working text. For advice about how and where to do this you
can look at RFC 5657.

You seem to have answered the four points from 6410, but may be missing
a little corroboration.=20

>  The pseudowire technology was first deployed in 2001 and has been
>  widely deployed by many carriers. [RFC7079] documents the results of
>  a survey of PW implementations, with specific emphasis on Control
>  Word usage.  [EANTC] documents a public multi-vendor interoperability
>  test of MPLS and Carrier Ethernet equipment, which included testing
>  of Ethernet, ATM and TDM pseudowires.

7079 is a slightly related piece of survey work, but the only mention of =

LDP (which is the subject of *this* document) is to point out an issue
with non-implementation.

The EANTC reference really needs something that helps us find the report
of the interop event. Possibly this is
http://www.eantc.de/fileadmin/eantc/downloads/events/2007-2010/MPLSEWC09/=
EANTC-MPLSEWC2009-WhitePaper-v1.0.pdf
Looking at that paper, it definitely supports the claim of multiple
interoperating implementations of 4447.

We lack, however, any statements about "widespread deployment and=20
successful operational experience."

>  The errata against [RFC4447] are all editorial in nature and have
>  been addressed in this document.

Good (except for those not addressed as above, and except that some of
those errata are incorrectly marked as "Technical").

>  All features in this specification have been implemented by multiple
>  vendors.

How do we know this?
Further, are all the features used? One point of this step in the=20
process is to prune out features that are unnecessary (and so complicate
implementation and operation, and cost money).

>  There is no IPR filed against this document or its predecessor.

This may be overly vague (you probably mean "No IPR disclosures have
been made to the IETF related to this document, to RFC 4447 or RFC 6723,
or to the Internet-Drafts that resulted in RFC 4447 and RFC 6723.").

---

=3D Nits =3D

In the Abstract, probably...

OLD
   This document has been written to address errata in a previous
   version of this standard.
NEW
   This document has been written to address errata in a previous
   version of this specification.
END

But, actually, I think you are missing the main purpose which is to
advance the spec to full standard.

On reflection, I think that this paragraph probably served well in the
draft as it was being processed, but can be removed now. The equivalent=20
text obviously needs to be in the shepherd write-up.

[ditto the paragraph in the introduction]

---

Thank you for including Section 1. It's important and helpful.

Three tiny points:

Second para should probably s/However/Additionally/

The RFC Editor requires that section 1 is the Introduction. A simple
solution is to swap sections 1 and 2, or to move the current section 2
to be the new section 1 and the current section 1 to be section 1.1.

The text says "A note was added to clarify that the C-bit is part of=20
the FEC." I think you should s/was/has been/ and you could also usefully
give a little hint as to where the note was added.
                                                                         =
        =20
---

Shouldn't you mention the inclusion of text referencing 7358? This is
clearly a change to the original text. I wonder, however, whether what
really want to do is take that part of 7358 that updated 4447 and simply
write it here so that this spec has no need of that reference.

Either way, you also need to take care about the stability requirement=20
for advancement.

---

In 6.2.2.1
please note that IANA has "PW Interface Parameters TLV" not "Interface
Parameters TLV".

The is a good chance to make this consistent.

---

In 6.2.2.2 and the rest of the document, please note that the IANA has
"PW Group ID TLV" not "PW Grouping ID TLV".

The is a good chance to make this consistent.

---

6.3.2 has a figure which claims to include a "PWId FEC TLV" or a
"Generalized ID FEC TLV". However, 6.1 and 6.2 describe these as
"elements" not TLVs and they show up in the Forwarding Equivalence Class
(FEC) Type Name Space.

I think you can clarify 6.3.2 by explaining that what is included here
is "a FEC TLV containing either a PWId FEC element or a Generalized FEC
element.

Then, just after the figure you have "The PW FEC TLV" but it is just a
"FEC TLV"

---

In 7.3 you have "re-provisioned". I wonder whether you mean
"re-configured". "Provisioning" has a context initial set-up, so re-
provisioning suggests (to me?) re-initialization.

---

In the first para of 7.3 you have "PW C-bit negotiation procedure" and
"Control-Word negotiation procedures".

Could you decide on a single name, and on whether it is singular or
plural.

---

7.3
OLD
        -i. If local PE has previously sent a Label Mapping message, it
            MUST send a Label Withdraw message to remote PE and wait
NEW
        -i. If the local PE has previously sent a Label Mapping message, =
it
            MUST send a Label Withdraw message to the remote PE and wait
END

---

7.3
OLD
       -ii. the local PE MUST send a label release message to the remote
NEW
       -ii. The local PE MUST send a Label Release message to the remote
END

---

7.3
s/negotaiation/negotiation/
s/renegotation/renegotiation/

---

7.3

   The above C-bit renegotiation process SHOULD NOT be interrupted until
   it is completed, or unpredictable results might occur.

This is a bit odd. Normally the "or" that follows a "SHOULD" or "SHOULD
NOT" explains the conditions under which you might want to vary the=20
"SHOULD".=20

But I'm struggling: interrupted by whom and by doing what?

---=20

Some of the formatting in the references seems to have been hit with a
global change of /. /.  / You might want to polish.

---

The latest version of G.707 is dated January 2007. Is there any reason
to not update the reference?

---

Have a look at Section 8 of RFC 5036 for an example of a nice way to
handle "legacy authors" and credits for past work.

In any case, the RFC Editor will require that Section 15 is renamed=20
"Contributors".

---

There are two trivial nits from idnits.


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Subject: Re: [Pals] Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis
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Adrian,

Thanks for the review!

Cheers,
Andy

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote=
:

> Hello,
>
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.
> The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related
> drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review. The purpose o=
f
> the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more
> information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it
> would be helpful if you could consider them as the draft advances, and
> strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> =3D=3D=3D
>
> Document: draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03.txt
> Reviewer: Adrian Farrel
> Review Date: 21 February 2016
> IETF LC End Date: Not yet started
> Intended Status: Internet Standard
>
> =3D Summary =3D
>
> I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be
> resolved before publication.
>
> =3D Comments =3D
>
> I'm OK to see 4447 being advanced to full standard, although I'm also a
> little surprised that there was energy to do it.
>
> The work is largely mechanical. My comments are a mix of minor process
> concerns (that your AD should be able to resolve), minor text
> clarifications, and nits.
>
> It's been a while since I was concerned with LDP, but I have no reason to
> doubt the integrity of this document.
>
> =3D Major Issues =3D
>
> No major issues found.
>
> =3D Minor Issues =3D
>
> I believe that this document should be marked as obsoleting 4447 and
> 6723. It will result in a new RFC with a new number, so 4447 will no
> longer be relevant. And, as Section 1 says: a new section (6.3) on
> control-word renegotiation by label request message has been added,
> obsoleting RFC 6723.
>
> By the way, it is section 7.3 (not 6.3) that you have added!
>
> [NB: Q16 of the Shepherd write-up seems a bit garbled on this front.
> Especially "Will publication of this document change the status of any
> existing RFCs?" seems to need a much clearer answer!]
>
> ---
>
> I'm not up to speed on the new process for advancing a specification to
> Internet-Standard when it has normative references that are not
> similarly advanced/advancing. I do know that the process changed
> recently and I am sure that your AD can look it up.
>
> ---
>
> It might be a reasonable question to ask why some of the
> (informatively) referenced related PW RFCs (such as encapsulations)
> are not being advanced at the same time, especially those that are
> described as "companion documents".
>
> ---
>
> It seems unnecessary petty-fogging process, but the inclusion of
> section 7.3 seems to me to defeat the stability requirement for
> advancement to Internet Standard unless your claim here is that you
> are advancing 4447 and 6723 together in this single document. That
> might be fine.
>
> ---
>
> The Errata that have been deliberately disregarded need to be marked as
> Rejected. I think the ones that have been actioned could usefully be
> marked as Verified or have a note added saying "fixed in RFCabcd".
>
> As far as I can tell:
>
> 3554 was not actioned
> 938 was done
> 86 was done
> 3555 was done
> 3115 no longer applies
> 3114 was done
> 3112 was done
> 1530 was done
>
> ---
>
> Because you (incorrectly) said that section 6.3 was new text, I gave it
> careful review. I think the text is in rather poor state:
>
> For example, in 6.3.1...
>
>    Using the procedures
>    outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method MAY also be
>    supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and AC status.
>
> ...Since this is *the* specification now, what does "legacy" mean?
>
> Indeed, you end 6.3.1 with...
>    The PW status
>    signaling procedures described in this section MUST be fully
>    implemented.
> ...which kind of implies ... hmm.
>
> I think you could rework 6.3.1 to handle this more gracefully and avoid
> the "clunk" of the 2nd para...
>
>    Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed and if they
>
> ...where we are surprised to hear about status negotiation.
>
> For example:
>
> OLD
>    The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers as soon as
>    the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regardless of the
>    attachment circuit state.  The PW label should not be withdrawn
>    unless the operator administratively configures the pseudowire down
>    (or the PW configuration is deleted entirely).  Using the procedures
>    outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method MAY also be
>    supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and AC status.  In
>    any case, if the label-to-PW binding is not available the PW MUST be
>    considered in the down state.
>
>    Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed and if they
>    result in the use of the label withdraw method for PW status
>    communication, and this method is not supported by one of the PEs,
>    then that PE must send a Label Release Message to its peer with the
>    following error:
>
>    "Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported"
>
>    If the label withdraw method for PW status communication is selected
>    for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message being
>    advertised only if the attachment circuit is active.  The PW status
>    signaling procedures described in this section MUST be fully
>    implemented.
> NEW
>    The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers as soon as
>    the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regardless of the
>    attachment circuit state.  The PW label should not be withdrawn
>    unless the operator administratively configures the pseudowire down
>    (or the PW configuration is deleted entirely).
>
>    Section 6.3.2 describes a mechanism for signaling the status of the
>    PW and AC.  Additionally, a simple label withdraw method MAY be used
>    to signal the PW status and AC status.  In any case, if the label-to-
>    PW binding is not available the PW MUST be considered to be in the
>    down state.
>
>    The PEs negotiate which PW and AC status signaling mechanism to use
>    by following the procedures in Section 6.3.3.  If the PW negotiation
>    procedures are completed and if they result in the use of the simple
>    label withdraw method for PW status communication, and if this method
>    is not supported by one of the PEs then that PE must send a Label
>    Release Message to its peer with the following error:
>
>    "Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported"
>
>    If the label withdraw method for PW status communication is selected
>    for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message being
>    advertised only if the AC is active.
>
>    The PW status signaling procedures described in Section 6.3.2 MUST be
>    fully implemented.
> END
>
> ---
>
> Section 6.3.2 achieves ambiguity by stating...
>    The general format of the Notification Message is:
> ...and then showing the specific case of "PW status".
>
> You can fix this by re-ordering and tweaking slightly, as follows.
>
> Note that the old text says:
>    Since this notification does not
>    refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Message Type
>    fields are set to 0.
> ...but I think the Message Type is set to 0x0001 :-)
>
>
> OLD
>    The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via the LDP
>    Notification message.  The general format of the Notification Message
>    is:
>
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |0|   Notification (0x0001)     |      Message Length           |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                       Message ID                              |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                       Status (TLV)                            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                      PW Status TLV                            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |           PWId FEC TLV or Generalized ID FEC TLV              |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |               PW Grouping ID TLV (Optional)                   |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>
>    The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, "PW status", to
>    indicate that PW status follows.  Since this notification does not
>    refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Message Type
>    fields are set to 0.
> NEW
>    The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via the LDP
>    Notification message as described in [RFC5036].
>
>    The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, "PW status", to
>    indicate that PW status follows.  The format of the Notification
>    Message for carrying the PW Status is as follows:
>
>
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |0|   Notification (0x0001)     |      Message Length           |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                       Message ID                              |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                       Status (TLV)                            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                      PW Status TLV                            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |           PWId FEC TLV or Generalized ID FEC TLV              |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |               PW Grouping ID TLV (Optional)                   |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>    Since this notification does not refer to any particular message,
>    the Message Id field is set to 0.
> END
>
> ---
>
> Section 8 could be tidied a little.
>
> The use of "in general" gives the IANA no way to know whether they
> should or should not update a reference.
>
> Are you sure that you want to remove the nice, concise listing of code
> points that are present in RFC 4447?
>
> 8.1, 8.2, and 8.3 all say "new". I suggest deleting that word.
>
> And lastly, "IANA needs to..." is not what we say :-) "IANA is requested
> to..." is nicer.
>
> [NB: The Shepherd write-up seems to report all this wrongly at Q17]
>
> ---
>
> Shouldn't the whole of Section 10 be moved to an interop report
> somewhere? It's presence within the document seems somewhat temporally
> unstable. I understand that you want to write it down and record it
> somewhere, also that you probably developed it in the I-D as a useful
> place for working text. For advice about how and where to do this you
> can look at RFC 5657.
>
> You seem to have answered the four points from 6410, but may be missing
> a little corroboration.
>
> >  The pseudowire technology was first deployed in 2001 and has been
> >  widely deployed by many carriers. [RFC7079] documents the results of
> >  a survey of PW implementations, with specific emphasis on Control
> >  Word usage.  [EANTC] documents a public multi-vendor interoperability
> >  test of MPLS and Carrier Ethernet equipment, which included testing
> >  of Ethernet, ATM and TDM pseudowires.
>
> 7079 is a slightly related piece of survey work, but the only mention of
> LDP (which is the subject of *this* document) is to point out an issue
> with non-implementation.
>
> The EANTC reference really needs something that helps us find the report
> of the interop event. Possibly this is
>
> http://www.eantc.de/fileadmin/eantc/downloads/events/2007-2010/MPLSEWC09/=
EANTC-MPLSEWC2009-WhitePaper-v1.0.pdf
> Looking at that paper, it definitely supports the claim of multiple
> interoperating implementations of 4447.
>
> We lack, however, any statements about "widespread deployment and
> successful operational experience."
>
> >  The errata against [RFC4447] are all editorial in nature and have
> >  been addressed in this document.
>
> Good (except for those not addressed as above, and except that some of
> those errata are incorrectly marked as "Technical").
>
> >  All features in this specification have been implemented by multiple
> >  vendors.
>
> How do we know this?
> Further, are all the features used? One point of this step in the
> process is to prune out features that are unnecessary (and so complicate
> implementation and operation, and cost money).
>
> >  There is no IPR filed against this document or its predecessor.
>
> This may be overly vague (you probably mean "No IPR disclosures have
> been made to the IETF related to this document, to RFC 4447 or RFC 6723,
> or to the Internet-Drafts that resulted in RFC 4447 and RFC 6723.").
>
> ---
>
> =3D Nits =3D
>
> In the Abstract, probably...
>
> OLD
>    This document has been written to address errata in a previous
>    version of this standard.
> NEW
>    This document has been written to address errata in a previous
>    version of this specification.
> END
>
> But, actually, I think you are missing the main purpose which is to
> advance the spec to full standard.
>
> On reflection, I think that this paragraph probably served well in the
> draft as it was being processed, but can be removed now. The equivalent
> text obviously needs to be in the shepherd write-up.
>
> [ditto the paragraph in the introduction]
>
> ---
>
> Thank you for including Section 1. It's important and helpful.
>
> Three tiny points:
>
> Second para should probably s/However/Additionally/
>
> The RFC Editor requires that section 1 is the Introduction. A simple
> solution is to swap sections 1 and 2, or to move the current section 2
> to be the new section 1 and the current section 1 to be section 1.1.
>
> The text says "A note was added to clarify that the C-bit is part of
> the FEC." I think you should s/was/has been/ and you could also usefully
> give a little hint as to where the note was added.
>
> ---
>
> Shouldn't you mention the inclusion of text referencing 7358? This is
> clearly a change to the original text. I wonder, however, whether what
> really want to do is take that part of 7358 that updated 4447 and simply
> write it here so that this spec has no need of that reference.
>
> Either way, you also need to take care about the stability requirement
> for advancement.
>
> ---
>
> In 6.2.2.1
> please note that IANA has "PW Interface Parameters TLV" not "Interface
> Parameters TLV".
>
> The is a good chance to make this consistent.
>
> ---
>
> In 6.2.2.2 and the rest of the document, please note that the IANA has
> "PW Group ID TLV" not "PW Grouping ID TLV".
>
> The is a good chance to make this consistent.
>
> ---
>
> 6.3.2 has a figure which claims to include a "PWId FEC TLV" or a
> "Generalized ID FEC TLV". However, 6.1 and 6.2 describe these as
> "elements" not TLVs and they show up in the Forwarding Equivalence Class
> (FEC) Type Name Space.
>
> I think you can clarify 6.3.2 by explaining that what is included here
> is "a FEC TLV containing either a PWId FEC element or a Generalized FEC
> element.
>
> Then, just after the figure you have "The PW FEC TLV" but it is just a
> "FEC TLV"
>
> ---
>
> In 7.3 you have "re-provisioned". I wonder whether you mean
> "re-configured". "Provisioning" has a context initial set-up, so re-
> provisioning suggests (to me?) re-initialization.
>
> ---
>
> In the first para of 7.3 you have "PW C-bit negotiation procedure" and
> "Control-Word negotiation procedures".
>
> Could you decide on a single name, and on whether it is singular or
> plural.
>
> ---
>
> 7.3
> OLD
>         -i. If local PE has previously sent a Label Mapping message, it
>             MUST send a Label Withdraw message to remote PE and wait
> NEW
>         -i. If the local PE has previously sent a Label Mapping message, =
it
>             MUST send a Label Withdraw message to the remote PE and wait
> END
>
> ---
>
> 7.3
> OLD
>        -ii. the local PE MUST send a label release message to the remote
> NEW
>        -ii. The local PE MUST send a Label Release message to the remote
> END
>
> ---
>
> 7.3
> s/negotaiation/negotiation/
> s/renegotation/renegotiation/
>
> ---
>
> 7.3
>
>    The above C-bit renegotiation process SHOULD NOT be interrupted until
>    it is completed, or unpredictable results might occur.
>
> This is a bit odd. Normally the "or" that follows a "SHOULD" or "SHOULD
> NOT" explains the conditions under which you might want to vary the
> "SHOULD".
>
> But I'm struggling: interrupted by whom and by doing what?
>
> ---
>
> Some of the formatting in the references seems to have been hit with a
> global change of /. /.  / You might want to polish.
>
> ---
>
> The latest version of G.707 is dated January 2007. Is there any reason
> to not update the reference?
>
> ---
>
> Have a look at Section 8 of RFC 5036 for an example of a nice way to
> handle "legacy authors" and credits for past work.
>
> In any case, the RFC Editor will require that Section 15 is renamed
> "Contributors".
>
> ---
>
> There are two trivial nits from idnits.
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Adrian,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the review!</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Adrian =
Farrel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. Th=
e Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts=
 as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review. The purpose of the re=
view is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information abou=
t the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B<a href=3D"http://trac.tools=
.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</a><br>
<br>
Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it wo=
uld be helpful if you could consider them as the draft advances, and strive=
 to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
=3D=3D=3D<br>
<br>
Document: draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03.txt<br>
Reviewer: Adrian Farrel<br>
Review Date: 21 February 2016<br>
IETF LC End Date: Not yet started<br>
Intended Status: Internet Standard<br>
<br>
=3D Summary =3D<br>
<br>
I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resol=
ved before publication.<br>
<br>
=3D Comments =3D<br>
<br>
I&#39;m OK to see 4447 being advanced to full standard, although I&#39;m al=
so a little surprised that there was energy to do it.<br>
<br>
The work is largely mechanical. My comments are a mix of minor process conc=
erns (that your AD should be able to resolve), minor text clarifications, a=
nd nits.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s been a while since I was concerned with LDP, but I have no reason =
to doubt the integrity of this document.<br>
<br>
=3D Major Issues =3D<br>
<br>
No major issues found.<br>
<br>
=3D Minor Issues =3D<br>
<br>
I believe that this document should be marked as obsoleting 4447 and<br>
6723. It will result in a new RFC with a new number, so 4447 will no<br>
longer be relevant. And, as Section 1 says: a new section (6.3) on<br>
control-word renegotiation by label request message has been added,<br>
obsoleting RFC 6723.<br>
<br>
By the way, it is section 7.3 (not 6.3) that you have added!<br>
<br>
[NB: Q16 of the Shepherd write-up seems a bit garbled on this front.<br>
Especially &quot;Will publication of this document change the status of any=
<br>
existing RFCs?&quot; seems to need a much clearer answer!]<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not up to speed on the new process for advancing a specification to=
<br>
Internet-Standard when it has normative references that are not<br>
similarly advanced/advancing. I do know that the process changed<br>
recently and I am sure that your AD can look it up.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
It might be a reasonable question to ask why some of the<br>
(informatively) referenced related PW RFCs (such as encapsulations)<br>
are not being advanced at the same time, especially those that are<br>
described as &quot;companion documents&quot;.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
It seems unnecessary petty-fogging process, but the inclusion of<br>
section 7.3 seems to me to defeat the stability requirement for<br>
advancement to Internet Standard unless your claim here is that you<br>
are advancing 4447 and 6723 together in this single document. That<br>
might be fine.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
The Errata that have been deliberately disregarded need to be marked as<br>
Rejected. I think the ones that have been actioned could usefully be<br>
marked as Verified or have a note added saying &quot;fixed in RFCabcd&quot;=
.<br>
<br>
As far as I can tell:<br>
<br>
3554 was not actioned<br>
938 was done<br>
86 was done<br>
3555 was done<br>
3115 no longer applies<br>
3114 was done<br>
3112 was done<br>
1530 was done<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Because you (incorrectly) said that section 6.3 was new text, I gave it<br>
careful review. I think the text is in rather poor state:<br>
<br>
For example, in 6.3.1...<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Using the procedures<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method MAY a=
lso be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and AC stat=
us.<br>
<br>
...Since this is *the* specification now, what does &quot;legacy&quot; mean=
?<br>
<br>
Indeed, you end 6.3.1 with...<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The PW status<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0signaling procedures described in this section MUST be fully<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented.<br>
...which kind of implies ... hmm.<br>
<br>
I think you could rework 6.3.1 to handle this more gracefully and avoid<br>
the &quot;clunk&quot; of the 2nd para...<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed and if=
 they<br>
<br>
...where we are surprised to hear about status negotiation.<br>
<br>
For example:<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers as soo=
n as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regardless =
of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attachment circuit state.=C2=A0 The PW label should not be wit=
hdrawn<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unless the operator administratively configures the pseudowire=
 down<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(or the PW configuration is deleted entirely).=C2=A0 Using the=
 procedures<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method MAY a=
lso be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and AC stat=
us.=C2=A0 In<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0any case, if the label-to-PW binding is not available the PW M=
UST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0considered in the down state.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed and if=
 they<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in the use of the label withdraw method for PW status<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0communication, and this method is not supported by one of the =
PEs,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0then that PE must send a Label Release Message to its peer wit=
h the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0following error:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported&quot;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If the label withdraw method for PW status communication is se=
lected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message being<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertised only if the attachment circuit is active.=C2=A0 The=
 PW status<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0signaling procedures described in this section MUST be fully<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented.<br>
NEW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers as soo=
n as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regardless =
of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attachment circuit state.=C2=A0 The PW label should not be wit=
hdrawn<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unless the operator administratively configures the pseudowire=
 down<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(or the PW configuration is deleted entirely).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 6.3.2 describes a mechanism for signaling the status o=
f the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0PW and AC.=C2=A0 Additionally, a simple label withdraw method =
MAY be used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to signal the PW status and AC status.=C2=A0 In any case, if t=
he label-to-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0PW binding is not available the PW MUST be considered to be in=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0down state.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The PEs negotiate which PW and AC status signaling mechanism t=
o use<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by following the procedures in Section 6.3.3.=C2=A0 If the PW =
negotiation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures are completed and if they result in the use of the =
simple<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0label withdraw method for PW status communication, and if this=
 method<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is not supported by one of the PEs then that PE must send a La=
bel<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Release Message to its peer with the following error:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported&quot;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If the label withdraw method for PW status communication is se=
lected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message being<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertised only if the AC is active.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The PW status signaling procedures described in Section 6.3.2 =
MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully implemented.<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Section 6.3.2 achieves ambiguity by stating...<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The general format of the Notification Message is:<br>
...and then showing the specific case of &quot;PW status&quot;.<br>
<br>
You can fix this by re-ordering and tweaking slightly, as follows.<br>
<br>
Note that the old text says:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Since this notification does not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Message Ty=
pe<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0fields are set to 0.<br>
...but I think the Message Type is set to 0x0001 :-)<br>
<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via the LD=
P<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Notification message.=C2=A0 The general format of the Notifica=
tion Message<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A03<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0=
 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0Notification (0x0001)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Message Length=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Message ID=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Status (TLV)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PW Status TLV=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PWId FEC TLV or Gene=
ralized ID FEC TLV=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PW Gro=
uping ID TLV (Optional)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, &quot;PW stat=
us&quot;, to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate that PW status follows.=C2=A0 Since this notification=
 does not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Message Ty=
pe<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0fields are set to 0.<br>
NEW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via the LD=
P<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Notification message as described in [RFC5036].<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, &quot;PW stat=
us&quot;, to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate that PW status follows.=C2=A0 The format of the Notif=
ication<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Message for carrying the PW Status is as follows:<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A03<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0=
 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0Notification (0x0001)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Message Length=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Message ID=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Status (TLV)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PW Status TLV=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PWId FEC TLV or Gene=
ralized ID FEC TLV=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PW Gro=
uping ID TLV (Optional)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Since this notification does not refer to any particular messa=
ge,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the Message Id field is set to 0.<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Section 8 could be tidied a little.<br>
<br>
The use of &quot;in general&quot; gives the IANA no way to know whether the=
y<br>
should or should not update a reference.<br>
<br>
Are you sure that you want to remove the nice, concise listing of code<br>
points that are present in RFC 4447?<br>
<br>
8.1, 8.2, and 8.3 all say &quot;new&quot;. I suggest deleting that word.<br=
>
<br>
And lastly, &quot;IANA needs to...&quot; is not what we say :-) &quot;IANA =
is requested<br>
to...&quot; is nicer.<br>
<br>
[NB: The Shepherd write-up seems to report all this wrongly at Q17]<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Shouldn&#39;t the whole of Section 10 be moved to an interop report<br>
somewhere? It&#39;s presence within the document seems somewhat temporally<=
br>
unstable. I understand that you want to write it down and record it<br>
somewhere, also that you probably developed it in the I-D as a useful<br>
place for working text. For advice about how and where to do this you<br>
can look at RFC 5657.<br>
<br>
You seem to have answered the four points from 6410, but may be missing<br>
a little corroboration.<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 The pseudowire technology was first deployed in 2001 and has bee=
n<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 widely deployed by many carriers. [RFC7079] documents the result=
s of<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 a survey of PW implementations, with specific emphasis on Contro=
l<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 Word usage.=C2=A0 [EANTC] documents a public multi-vendor intero=
perability<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 test of MPLS and Carrier Ethernet equipment, which included test=
ing<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 of Ethernet, ATM and TDM pseudowires.<br>
<br>
7079 is a slightly related piece of survey work, but the only mention of<br=
>
LDP (which is the subject of *this* document) is to point out an issue<br>
with non-implementation.<br>
<br>
The EANTC reference really needs something that helps us find the report<br=
>
of the interop event. Possibly this is<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.eantc.de/fileadmin/eantc/downloads/events/2007-2010/M=
PLSEWC09/EANTC-MPLSEWC2009-WhitePaper-v1.0.pdf" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.eantc.de/fileadmin/eantc/downloads/events/2007-2010/=
MPLSEWC09/EANTC-MPLSEWC2009-WhitePaper-v1.0.pdf</a><br>
Looking at that paper, it definitely supports the claim of multiple<br>
interoperating implementations of 4447.<br>
<br>
We lack, however, any statements about &quot;widespread deployment and<br>
successful operational experience.&quot;<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 The errata against [RFC4447] are all editorial in nature and hav=
e<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 been addressed in this document.<br>
<br>
Good (except for those not addressed as above, and except that some of<br>
those errata are incorrectly marked as &quot;Technical&quot;).<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 All features in this specification have been implemented by mult=
iple<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 vendors.<br>
<br>
How do we know this?<br>
Further, are all the features used? One point of this step in the<br>
process is to prune out features that are unnecessary (and so complicate<br=
>
implementation and operation, and cost money).<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 There is no IPR filed against this document or its predecessor.<=
br>
<br>
This may be overly vague (you probably mean &quot;No IPR disclosures have<b=
r>
been made to the IETF related to this document, to RFC 4447 or RFC 6723,<br=
>
or to the Internet-Drafts that resulted in RFC 4447 and RFC 6723.&quot;).<b=
r>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
=3D Nits =3D<br>
<br>
In the Abstract, probably...<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document has been written to address errata in a previous=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0version of this standard.<br>
NEW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document has been written to address errata in a previous=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0version of this specification.<br>
END<br>
<br>
But, actually, I think you are missing the main purpose which is to<br>
advance the spec to full standard.<br>
<br>
On reflection, I think that this paragraph probably served well in the<br>
draft as it was being processed, but can be removed now. The equivalent<br>
text obviously needs to be in the shepherd write-up.<br>
<br>
[ditto the paragraph in the introduction]<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Thank you for including Section 1. It&#39;s important and helpful.<br>
<br>
Three tiny points:<br>
<br>
Second para should probably s/However/Additionally/<br>
<br>
The RFC Editor requires that section 1 is the Introduction. A simple<br>
solution is to swap sections 1 and 2, or to move the current section 2<br>
to be the new section 1 and the current section 1 to be section 1.1.<br>
<br>
The text says &quot;A note was added to clarify that the C-bit is part of<b=
r>
the FEC.&quot; I think you should s/was/has been/ and you could also useful=
ly<br>
give a little hint as to where the note was added.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Shouldn&#39;t you mention the inclusion of text referencing 7358? This is<b=
r>
clearly a change to the original text. I wonder, however, whether what<br>
really want to do is take that part of 7358 that updated 4447 and simply<br=
>
write it here so that this spec has no need of that reference.<br>
<br>
Either way, you also need to take care about the stability requirement<br>
for advancement.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
In 6.2.2.1<br>
please note that IANA has &quot;PW Interface Parameters TLV&quot; not &quot=
;Interface<br>
Parameters TLV&quot;.<br>
<br>
The is a good chance to make this consistent.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
In 6.2.2.2 and the rest of the document, please note that the IANA has<br>
&quot;PW Group ID TLV&quot; not &quot;PW Grouping ID TLV&quot;.<br>
<br>
The is a good chance to make this consistent.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
6.3.2 has a figure which claims to include a &quot;PWId FEC TLV&quot; or a<=
br>
&quot;Generalized ID FEC TLV&quot;. However, 6.1 and 6.2 describe these as<=
br>
&quot;elements&quot; not TLVs and they show up in the Forwarding Equivalenc=
e Class<br>
(FEC) Type Name Space.<br>
<br>
I think you can clarify 6.3.2 by explaining that what is included here<br>
is &quot;a FEC TLV containing either a PWId FEC element or a Generalized FE=
C<br>
element.<br>
<br>
Then, just after the figure you have &quot;The PW FEC TLV&quot; but it is j=
ust a<br>
&quot;FEC TLV&quot;<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
In 7.3 you have &quot;re-provisioned&quot;. I wonder whether you mean<br>
&quot;re-configured&quot;. &quot;Provisioning&quot; has a context initial s=
et-up, so re-<br>
provisioning suggests (to me?) re-initialization.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
In the first para of 7.3 you have &quot;PW C-bit negotiation procedure&quot=
; and<br>
&quot;Control-Word negotiation procedures&quot;.<br>
<br>
Could you decide on a single name, and on whether it is singular or<br>
plural.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
7.3<br>
OLD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -i. If local PE has previously sent a Label Map=
ping message, it<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST send a Label Withdraw messag=
e to remote PE and wait<br>
NEW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -i. If the local PE has previously sent a Label=
 Mapping message, it<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST send a Label Withdraw messag=
e to the remote PE and wait<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
7.3<br>
OLD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-ii. the local PE MUST send a label release mess=
age to the remote<br>
NEW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-ii. The local PE MUST send a Label Release mess=
age to the remote<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
7.3<br>
s/negotaiation/negotiation/<br>
s/renegotation/renegotiation/<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
7.3<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The above C-bit renegotiation process SHOULD NOT be interrupte=
d until<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it is completed, or unpredictable results might occur.<br>
<br>
This is a bit odd. Normally the &quot;or&quot; that follows a &quot;SHOULD&=
quot; or &quot;SHOULD<br>
NOT&quot; explains the conditions under which you might want to vary the<br=
>
&quot;SHOULD&quot;.<br>
<br>
But I&#39;m struggling: interrupted by whom and by doing what?<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Some of the formatting in the references seems to have been hit with a<br>
global change of /. /.=C2=A0 / You might want to polish.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
The latest version of G.707 is dated January 2007. Is there any reason<br>
to not update the reference?<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Have a look at Section 8 of RFC 5036 for an example of a nice way to<br>
handle &quot;legacy authors&quot; and credits for past work.<br>
<br>
In any case, the RFC Editor will require that Section 15 is renamed<br>
&quot;Contributors&quot;.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
There are two trivial nits from idnits.<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113d2f8a21505a052c5a96e9--


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From: Lizhong Jin <lizho.jin@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 23:20:51 +0800
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D=22Content-Type=22 content=3D=22text/html;=
 charset=3Dutf-8=22 /></head><body>
        <div id=3D=22contentDescription=22 style=3D=22line-height:1.5;tex=
t-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph=22>
            <div>Hi,</div><div>I read the old version of 4447bis draft be=
fore, but did not find the merging of 6723. In current version, it is mor=
e of merging 4447 and 6723 as one draft, which I believe is a better way.=
 R=46C6723 solves a technical bug of R=46C4447. I give some inline commen=
ts below for Adrian's review regarding 6723.</div><div><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D=22NETEASEMAILMASTERLOCALSIGNATURE=22><div id=3D=22imail=5Fsignature=
=22>Regards
<br>Lizhong</div></div>
            <div class=3D=22border=46ixWidth iMailDoNotReScale=22 style=3D=
=22background-color:=23f2f2f2;color:black;padding-top:6px;padding-bottom:=
6px;border-radius:3px;-moz-border-radius:3px;-webkit-border-radius:3px;ma=
rgin-top:45px;margin-bottom:20px;=22><div style=3D=22font-size:14px;line-=
height:1.5;word-break:break-all;margin-left:10px;margin-right:10px=22>=E5=
=9C=A82016=E5=B9=B402=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 23:16=EF=BC=8C<a style=3D=22tex=
t-decoration:none;color:=232a97ff;=22 href=3D=22mailto:adrian=40olddog.co=
.uk=22>Adrian =46arrel</a> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93:</div></div><blockquote id=3D=
=22ntes-iosmail-quote=22 style=3D=22margin:0=22>Hello, =20
<br>
<br>I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this dra=
ft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-relate=
d drafts as they pass through IET=46 last call and IESG review. The purpo=
se of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. =46or more =
information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8Bhttp://tra=
c.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir =20
<br>
<br>Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs,=
 it would be helpful if you could consider them as the draft advances, an=
d strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. =20
<br>
<br>Thanks,
<br>Adrian
<br>
<br>=3D=3D=3D
<br>
<br>Document: draft-ietf-pals-rfc4447bis-03.txt =20
<br>Reviewer: Adrian =46arrel
<br>Review Date: 21 =46ebruary 2016
<br>IET=46 LC End Date: Not yet started
<br>Intended Status: Internet Standard
<br>
<br>=3D Summary =3D
<br>
<br>I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be=
 resolved before publication. =20
<br>
<br>=3D Comments =3D
<br>
<br>I'm OK to see 4447 being advanced to full standard, although I'm also=
 a little surprised that there was energy to do it.
<br>
<br>The work is largely mechanical. My comments are a mix of minor proces=
s concerns (that your AD should be able to resolve), minor text clarifica=
tions, and nits.
<br>
<br>It's been a while since I was concerned with LDP, but I have no reaso=
n to doubt the integrity of this document.
<br>
<br>=3D Major Issues =3D
<br>
<br>No major issues found. =20
<br>
<br>=3D Minor Issues =3D
<br>
<br>I believe that this document should be marked as obsoleting 4447 and =
=20
<br>6723. It will result in a new R=46C with a new number, so 4447 will n=
o
<br>longer be relevant. And, as Section 1 says: a new section (6.3) on =20
<br>control-word renegotiation by label request message has been added,
<br>obsoleting R=46C 6723.
<br>
<br>By the way, it is section 7.3 (not 6.3) that you have added=21
<br>
<br>=5BNB: Q16 of the Shepherd write-up seems a bit garbled on this front=
.
<br>Especially =22Will publication of this document change the status of =
any
<br>existing R=46Cs=3F=22 seems to need a much clearer answer=21=5D
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>I'm not up to speed on the new process for advancing a specification =
to
<br>Internet-Standard when it has normative references that are not =20
<br>similarly advanced/advancing. I do know that the process changed
<br>recently and I am sure that your AD can look it up.
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>It might be a reasonable question to ask why some of the
<br>(informatively) referenced related PW R=46Cs (such as encapsulations)=

<br>are not being advanced at the same time, especially those that are
<br>described as =22companion documents=22.
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>It seems unnecessary petty-fogging process, but the inclusion of
<br>section 7.3 seems to me to defeat the stability requirement for
<br>advancement to Internet Standard unless your claim here is that you
<br>are advancing 4447 and 6723 together in this single document. That
<br>might be fine.&nbsp;</blockquote><blockquote id=3D=22ntes-iosmail-quo=
te=22 style=3D=22margin:0=22>=5BLizhong=5D similar feeling from me. It se=
ems to combine 4447 and 6723 into one draft. If that is the intention, I =
suggest to list the 6723 authors in this draft.&nbsp;<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>The Errata that have been deliberately disregarded need to be marked =
as
<br>Rejected. I think the ones that have been actioned could usefully be =
=20
<br>marked as Verified or have a note added saying =22fixed in R=46Cabcd=22=
.
<br>
<br>As far as I can tell:
<br>
<br>3554 was not actioned
<br>938 was done
<br>86 was done
<br>3555 was done
<br>3115 no longer applies
<br>3114 was done
<br>3112 was done
<br>1530 was done
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>Because you (incorrectly) said that section 6.3 was new text, I gave =
it
<br>careful review. I think the text is in rather poor state:
<br>
<br>=46or example, in 6.3.1...
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Using the procedures
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method=
 MAY also be
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and A=
C status.
<br>
<br>...Since this is *the* specification now, what does =22legacy=22 mean=
=3F
<br>
<br>Indeed, you end 6.3.1 with...
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The PW status
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;signaling procedures described in this section MUST be f=
ully
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;implemented.
<br>...which kind of implies ... hmm.
<br>
<br>I think you could rework 6.3.1 to handle this more gracefully and avo=
id
<br>the =22clunk=22 of the 2nd para...
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed =
and if they
<br>
<br>...where we are surprised to hear about status negotiation.
<br>
<br>=46or example:
<br>
<br>OLD
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers =
as soon as
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regar=
dless of the
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;attachment circuit state. &nbsp;The PW label should not =
be withdrawn
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;unless the operator administratively configures the pseu=
dowire down
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;(or the PW configuration is deleted entirely). &nbsp;Usi=
ng the procedures
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;outlined in this section, a simple label withdraw method=
 MAY also be
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;supported as a legacy means of signaling PW status and A=
C status. &nbsp;In
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;any case, if the label-to-PW binding is not available th=
e PW MUST be
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;considered in the down state.
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Once the PW status negotiation procedures are completed =
and if they
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;result in the use of the label withdraw method for PW st=
atus
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;communication, and this method is not supported by one o=
f the PEs,
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;then that PE must send a Label Release Message to its pe=
er with the
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;following error:
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=22Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported=22
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;If the label withdraw method for PW status communication=
 is selected
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message =
being
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;advertised only if the attachment circuit is active. &nb=
sp;The PW status
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;signaling procedures described in this section MUST be f=
ully
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;implemented.
<br>NEW
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The PEs MUST send Label Mapping Messages to their peers =
as soon as
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;the PW is configured and administratively enabled, regar=
dless of the
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;attachment circuit state. &nbsp;The PW label should not =
be withdrawn
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;unless the operator administratively configures the pseu=
dowire down
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;(or the PW configuration is deleted entirely). =20
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Section 6.3.2 describes a mechanism for signaling the st=
atus of the =20
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;PW and AC. &nbsp;Additionally, a simple label withdraw m=
ethod MAY be used =20
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;to signal the PW status and AC status. &nbsp;In any case=
, if the label-to-
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;PW binding is not available the PW MUST be considered to=
 be in the =20
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;down state.
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The PEs negotiate which PW and AC status signaling mecha=
nism to use
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;by following the procedures in Section 6.3.3. &nbsp;If t=
he PW negotiation
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;procedures are completed and if they result in the use o=
f the simple =20
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;label withdraw method for PW status communication, and i=
f this method
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;is not supported by one of the PEs then that PE must sen=
d a Label
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Release Message to its peer with the following error:
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=22Label Withdraw PW Status Method Not Supported=22
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;If the label withdraw method for PW status communication=
 is selected
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;for the PW, it will result in the Label Mapping Message =
being
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;advertised only if the AC is active.
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The PW status signaling procedures described in Section =
6.3.2 MUST be
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;fully implemented.
<br>END
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>Section 6.3.2 achieves ambiguity by stating...
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The general format of the Notification Message is:
<br>...and then showing the specific case of =22PW status=22.
<br>
<br>You can fix this by re-ordering and tweaking slightly, as follows.
<br>
<br>Note that the old text says:
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Since this notification does not
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Mess=
age Type
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;fields are set to 0.
<br>...but I think the Message Type is set to 0x0001 :-)
<br>
<br>
<br>OLD
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via =
the LDP
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Notification message. &nbsp;The general format of the No=
tification Message
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;is:
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;0 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1 &nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 =
5 6 7 8 9 0 1
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C0=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;Notification (0x0001) &nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Message Length &nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;Message ID &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;Status (TLV) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;PW Status TLV &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;PWId =46EC TLV or Generalized ID =46EC TLV &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;PW Grouping ID TLV (Optional) &nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, =22PW s=
tatus=22, to
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;indicate that PW status follows. &nbsp;Since this notifi=
cation does not
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;refer to any particular message, the Message Id and Mess=
age Type
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;fields are set to 0.
<br>NEW
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The Status TLV is transported to the remote PW peer via =
the LDP
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Notification message as described in =5BR=46C5036=5D.
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The Status TLV status code is set to 0x00000028, =22PW s=
tatus=22, to
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;indicate that PW status follows. &nbsp;The format of the=
 Notification
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Message for carrying the PW Status is as follows:
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;0 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1 &nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 =
5 6 7 8 9 0 1
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C0=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;Notification (0x0001) &nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Message Length &nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;Message ID &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;Status (TLV) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;PW Status TLV &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;PWId =46EC TLV or Generalized ID =46EC TLV &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;=7C &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;PW Grouping ID TLV (Optional) &nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=7C
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+
<br>
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Since this notification does not refer to any particular=
 message,
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;the Message Id field is set to 0.
<br>END
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>Section 8 could be tidied a little.
<br>
<br>The use of =22in general=22 gives the IANA no way to know whether the=
y
<br>should or should not update a reference. =20
<br>
<br>Are you sure that you want to remove the nice, concise listing of cod=
e
<br>points that are present in R=46C 4447=3F
<br>
<br>8.1, 8.2, and 8.3 all say =22new=22. I suggest deleting that word.
<br>
<br>And lastly, =22IANA needs to...=22 is not what we say :-) =22IANA is =
requested
<br>to...=22 is nicer.
<br>
<br>=5BNB: The Shepherd write-up seems to report all this wrongly at Q17=5D=

<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>Shouldn't the whole of Section 10 be moved to an interop report
<br>somewhere=3F It's presence within the document seems somewhat tempora=
lly
<br>unstable. I understand that you want to write it down and record it
<br>somewhere, also that you probably developed it in the I-D as a useful=
 =20
<br>place for working text. =46or advice about how and where to do this y=
ou
<br>can look at R=46C 5657.
<br>
<br>You seem to have answered the four points from 6410, but may be missi=
ng
<br>a little corroboration. =20
<br>
<br>&gt; &nbsp;The pseudowire technology was first deployed in 2001 and h=
as been
<br>&gt; &nbsp;widely deployed by many carriers. =5BR=46C7079=5D document=
s the results of
<br>&gt; &nbsp;a survey of PW implementations, with specific emphasis on =
Control
<br>&gt; &nbsp;Word usage. &nbsp;=5BEANTC=5D documents a public multi-ven=
dor interoperability
<br>&gt; &nbsp;test of MPLS and Carrier Ethernet equipment, which include=
d testing
<br>&gt; &nbsp;of Ethernet, ATM and TDM pseudowires.
<br>
<br>7079 is a slightly related piece of survey work, but the only mention=
 of =20
<br>LDP (which is the subject of *this* document) is to point out an issu=
e
<br>with non-implementation.
<br>
<br>The EANTC reference really needs something that helps us find the rep=
ort
<br>of the interop event. Possibly this is
<br>http://www.eantc.de/fileadmin/eantc/downloads/events/2007-2010/MPLSEW=
C09/EANTC-MPLSEWC2009-WhitePaper-v1.0.pdf
<br>Looking at that paper, it definitely supports the claim of multiple
<br>interoperating implementations of 4447.
<br>
<br>We lack, however, any statements about =22widespread deployment and =20
<br>successful operational experience.=22
<br>
<br>&gt; &nbsp;The errata against =5BR=46C4447=5D are all editorial in na=
ture and have
<br>&gt; &nbsp;been addressed in this document.
<br>
<br>Good (except for those not addressed as above, and except that some o=
f
<br>those errata are incorrectly marked as =22Technical=22).
<br>
<br>&gt; &nbsp;All features in this specification have been implemented b=
y multiple
<br>&gt; &nbsp;vendors.
<br>
<br>How do we know this=3F
<br>=46urther, are all the features used=3F One point of this step in the=
 =20
<br>process is to prune out features that are unnecessary (and so complic=
ate
<br>implementation and operation, and cost money).
<br>
<br>&gt; &nbsp;There is no IPR filed against this document or its predece=
ssor.
<br>
<br>This may be overly vague (you probably mean =22No IPR disclosures hav=
e
<br>been made to the IET=46 related to this document, to R=46C 4447 or R=46=
C 6723,
<br>or to the Internet-Drafts that resulted in R=46C 4447 and R=46C 6723.=
=22).
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>=3D Nits =3D
<br>
<br>In the Abstract, probably...
<br>
<br>OLD
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;This document has been written to address errata in a pr=
evious
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;version of this standard.
<br>NEW
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;This document has been written to address errata in a pr=
evious
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;version of this specification.
<br>END
<br>
<br>But, actually, I think you are missing the main purpose which is to
<br>advance the spec to full standard.
<br>
<br>On reflection, I think that this paragraph probably served well in th=
e
<br>draft as it was being processed, but can be removed now. The equivale=
nt =20
<br>text obviously needs to be in the shepherd write-up.
<br>
<br>=5Bditto the paragraph in the introduction=5D
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>Thank you for including Section 1. It's important and helpful.
<br>
<br>Three tiny points:
<br>
<br>Second para should probably s/However/Additionally/
<br>
<br>The R=46C Editor requires that section 1 is the Introduction. A simpl=
e
<br>solution is to swap sections 1 and 2, or to move the current section =
2
<br>to be the new section 1 and the current section 1 to be section 1.1.
<br>
<br>The text says =22A note was added to clarify that the C-bit is part o=
f =20
<br>the =46EC.=22 I think you should s/was/has been/ and you could also u=
sefully
<br>give a little hint as to where the note was added.
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<br>---
<br>
<br>Shouldn't you mention the inclusion of text referencing 7358=3F This =
is
<br>clearly a change to the original text. I wonder, however, whether wha=
t
<br>really want to do is take that part of 7358 that updated 4447 and sim=
ply
<br>write it here so that this spec has no need of that reference.
<br>
<br>Either way, you also need to take care about the stability requiremen=
t =20
<br>for advancement.
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>In 6.2.2.1
<br>please note that IANA has =22PW Interface Parameters TLV=22 not =22In=
terface
<br>Parameters TLV=22.
<br>
<br>The is a good chance to make this consistent.
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>In 6.2.2.2 and the rest of the document, please note that the IANA ha=
s
<br>=22PW Group ID TLV=22 not =22PW Grouping ID TLV=22.
<br>
<br>The is a good chance to make this consistent.
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>6.3.2 has a figure which claims to include a =22PWId =46EC TLV=22 or =
a
<br>=22Generalized ID =46EC TLV=22. However, 6.1 and 6.2 describe these a=
s
<br>=22elements=22 not TLVs and they show up in the =46orwarding Equivale=
nce Class
<br>(=46EC) Type Name Space.
<br>
<br>I think you can clarify 6.3.2 by explaining that what is included her=
e
<br>is =22a =46EC TLV containing either a PWId =46EC element or a General=
ized =46EC
<br>element.
<br>
<br>Then, just after the figure you have =22The PW =46EC TLV=22 but it is=
 just a
<br>=22=46EC TLV=22
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>In 7.3 you have =22re-provisioned=22. I wonder whether you mean
<br>=22re-configured=22. =22Provisioning=22 has a context initial set-up,=
 so re-
<br>provisioning suggests (to me=3F) re-initialization.
<br>
=5BLizhong=5D re-configured is fine here.<br>---
<br>
<br>In the first para of 7.3 you have =22PW C-bit negotiation procedure=22=
 and
<br>=22Control-Word negotiation procedures=22.
<br>
<br>Could you decide on a single name, and on whether it is singular or
<br>plural.
<br>
=5BLizhong=5D Could use control-word negotiation procedures in both place=
s.<br>---
<br>
<br>7.3
<br>OLD
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-i. If local PE has previo=
usly sent a Label Mapping message, it
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;MU=
ST send a Label Withdraw message to remote PE and wait
<br>NEW
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-i. If the local PE has pr=
eviously sent a Label Mapping message, it
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;MU=
ST send a Label Withdraw message to the remote PE and wait
<br>END
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>7.3
<br>OLD
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-ii. the local PE MUST send a la=
bel release message to the remote
<br>NEW
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-ii. The local PE MUST send a La=
bel Release message to the remote
<br>END
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>7.3
<br>s/negotaiation/negotiation/
<br>s/renegotation/renegotiation/
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>7.3
<br>
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The above C-bit renegotiation process SHOULD NOT be inte=
rrupted until
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;it is completed, or unpredictable results might occur.
<br>
<br>This is a bit odd. Normally the =22or=22 that follows a =22SHOULD=22 =
or =22SHOULD
<br>NOT=22 explains the conditions under which you might want to vary the=
 =20
<br>=22SHOULD=22. =20
<br>
<br>But I'm struggling: interrupted by whom and by doing what=3F
<br>
=5BLizhong=5D there is not this sentence in 6723. The implementation shou=
ld treat above procedure as atomic.</blockquote><blockquote id=3D=22ntes-=
iosmail-quote=22 style=3D=22margin:0=22><br>--- =20
<br>
<br>Some of the formatting in the references seems to have been hit with =
a
<br>global change of /. /. &nbsp;/ You might want to polish.
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>The latest version of G.707 is dated January 2007. Is there any reaso=
n
<br>to not update the reference=3F
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>Have a look at Section 8 of R=46C 5036 for an example of a nice way t=
o
<br>handle =22legacy authors=22 and credits for past work.
<br>
<br>In any case, the R=46C Editor will require that Section 15 is renamed=
 =20
<br>=22Contributors=22.
<br>
<br>---
<br>
<br>There are two trivial nits from idnits.
<br>
<br></blockquote>
        </div>
    </body></html>


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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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--001a11c2f2da11c9df052c64d0a9
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This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new revision to reflect
received comments and clear out the TBDs.

Thanks,
Andy


On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01.
> You can find the draft at:
>
> *https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01>*
>
> Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG
> list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.
>
> This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.
>
> We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and
> support publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of
> course, more extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or
> VCCV experts.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy and Stewart
>
>

--001a11c2f2da11c9df052c64d0a9
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<div dir=3D"ltr">This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new re=
vision to reflect received comments and clear out the TBDs.<div><br></div><=
div>Thanks,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew=
 G. Malis <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">This is the=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Group</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13p=
x">Last</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13px">Call</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0for=C2=A0</sp=
an>draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01. You can find the draft at:<div style=
=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div><font color=3D"#1155cc"><u><a href=3D"ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a></u></fo=
nt><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-siz=
e:13px">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BF=
D WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.</div><div=
 style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">This=C2=
=A0<span>last</span>=C2=A0<span>call</span>=C2=A0will run for two weeks, en=
ding on February 22.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-size:13px">We would appreciate even just responses that you&#39;v=
e read the draft and support publication, even if you don&#39;t have any sp=
ecific comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especially=
 from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">A=
ndy and Stewart</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c2f2da11c9df052c64d0a9--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services of the IETF.

        Title           : Seamless BFD for VCCV
        Authors         : Vengada Prasad Govindan
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2016-02-22

Abstract:
   This document extends the procedures and Connectivity Verification
   (CV) types already defined for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
   (BFD) for Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) to define
   Seamless BFD (S-BFD) for VCCV.  This document updates RFC 5885,
   extending the CV Values and the Capability Selection.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02


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until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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References: <CAA=duU1ZE5ooVg1RpripSHSRpNJz5EKVA4ThNaMo_kV+tXDjJg@mail.gmail.com> <CAA=duU2+zuiV=FRx8aVxYOOABj=CZb4B3grLQwVSn_816Snr4w@mail.gmail.com>
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--_000_D2F115EA38FBCcpignataciscocom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Andy!

I just uploaded a new revision which should address all the comments receiv=
ed and summarize all the discussion held.

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02

Thanks!

- Carlos.

From: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org>> o=
n behalf of "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Monday, February 22, 2016 at 7:12 PM
To: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rt=
g-bfd@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv=
-01

This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new revision to reflect=
 received comments and clear out the TBDs.

Thanks,
Andy


On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:=
agmalis@gmail.com>> wrote:
This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-=
01. You can find the draft at:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG lis=
t as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.

This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.

We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and supp=
ort publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of course, m=
ore extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or VCCV experts=
.

Thanks,
Andy and Stewart



--_000_D2F115EA38FBCcpignataciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-ID: <BB2FB91A695D9E4DA4D3FDF7A708A8A6@emea.cisco.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Thanks, Andy!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I just uploaded a new revision which should address all the comments r=
eceived and summarize all the discussion held.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">The IETF datatracker status p=
age for this draft is:</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;"><a href=3D"https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv/">https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv/</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">There's also a htmlized versi=
on available at:</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">A diff from the previous vers=
ion is available at:</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02">https://www.ietf.org/rf=
cdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">Thanks!</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">&#8212; Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Rtg-bfd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org">rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of &q=
uot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, February 22, 2016 at =
7:12 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ie=
tf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd=
@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.or=
g">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: PALS Working Group Las=
t Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new re=
vision to reflect received comments and clear out the TBDs.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">This is the&nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:13px">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Group</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Last</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px"=
>Call</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;for&nbsp;</span>draft-ietf=
-pals-seamless-vccv-01.
 You can find the draft at:
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#1155cc"><u><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a></u></font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has=
 been copied to the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PAL=
S list only.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">This&nbsp;<span>last</span>&nbsp;<span>call</=
span>&nbsp;will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">We would appreciate even just responses that =
you've read the draft and support publication, even if you don't have any s=
pecific comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especiall=
y from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Andy and Stewart</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D2F115EA38FBCcpignataciscocom_--


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Subject: [Pals] pals - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 95
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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Stephanie McCammon, on behalf of the pals working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Stephanie McCammon

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: bess ccamp detnet mpls nvo3 l2tpext rtgarea rtgwg sfc spring teas sdnrg nfvrg
 Second Priority: bfd i2rs pce



Special Requests:
  No conflicts with any BOFs in the RTG area.
Tuesday or later - sm1

---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Thu Feb 25 15:53:26 2016
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Subject: [Pals] RFC 7769 on Media Access Control (MAC) Address Withdrawal over Static Pseudowire
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7769

        Title:      Media Access Control (MAC) Address 
                    Withdrawal over Static Pseudowire 
        Author:     S. Sivabalan, S. Boutros,
                    H. Shah, S. Aldrin,
                    M. Venkatesan
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       February 2016
        Mailbox:    msiva@cisco.com, 
                    sboutros@cisco.com, 
                    hshah@ciena.com,
                    aldrin.ietf@gmail.com, 
                    mannan_venkatesan@cable.comcast.com
        Pages:      10
        Characters: 20518
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-pals-mpls-tp-mac-wd-03.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7769

        DOI:        http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7769

This document specifies a mechanism to signal Media Access Control (MAC)
address withdrawal notification using a pseudowire (PW) Associated Channel
(ACH).  Such notification is useful when statically provisioned PWs are
deployed in a Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) or Hierarchical Virtual 
Private LAN Service (H-VPLS) environment.

This document is a product of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the 
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Subject: [Pals] Fwd: RFC 7769 on Media Access Control (MAC) Address Withdrawal over Static Pseudowire
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--001a11c18614e1dcff052caacf88
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A new PALS RFC, congratulations to the authors!

Cheers,
Andy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 6:52 PM
Subject: [Pals] RFC 7769 on Media Access Control (MAC) Address Withdrawal
over Static Pseudowire
To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org
Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, pals@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org


A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.


        RFC 7769

        Title:      Media Access Control (MAC) Address
                    Withdrawal over Static Pseudowire
        Author:     S. Sivabalan, S. Boutros,
                    H. Shah, S. Aldrin,
                    M. Venkatesan
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       February 2016
        Mailbox:    msiva@cisco.com,
                    sboutros@cisco.com,
                    hshah@ciena.com,
                    aldrin.ietf@gmail.com,
                    mannan_venkatesan@cable.comcast.com
        Pages:      10
        Characters: 20518
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-pals-mpls-tp-mac-wd-03.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7769

        DOI:        http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7769

This document specifies a mechanism to signal Media Access Control (MAC)
address withdrawal notification using a pseudowire (PW) Associated Channel
(ACH).  Such notification is useful when statically provisioned PWs are
deployed in a Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) or Hierarchical Virtual
Private LAN Service (H-VPLS) environment.

This document is a product of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services
Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the
standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution of this
memo is unlimited.

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The RFC Editor Team
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--001a11c18614e1dcff052caacf88
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>A new PALS RFC, congratulations to the authors!</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class=
=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rfc-edit=
or@rfc-editor.org">rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Thu, F=
eb 25, 2016 at 6:52 PM<br>Subject: [Pals] RFC 7769 on Media Access Control =
(MAC) Address Withdrawal over Static Pseudowire<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:ie=
tf-announce@ietf.org">ietf-announce@ietf.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-dis=
t@rfc-editor.org">rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org</a><br>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:draf=
ts-update-ref@iana.org">drafts-update-ref@iana.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:p=
als@ietf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.or=
g">rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org</a><br><br><br>A new Request for Comments is n=
ow available in online RFC libraries.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 7769<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Media Access Control=
 (MAC) Address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Withd=
rawal over Static Pseudowire<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Author:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S. Sivabalan, S. Bou=
tros,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 H. Sh=
ah, S. Aldrin,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 M. Ve=
nkatesan<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Standards Track<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stream:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0February 2016<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mailbox:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:msiva@c=
isco.com">msiva@cisco.com</a>,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sboutros@cisco.com">sboutros@cisco.com</a>,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hshah@ciena.com">hshah@ciena.com</a>,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com">aldrin.ietf@gmail.com</a>,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:mannan_venkatesan@cable.comcast.com">mannan_venkatesan@cable.c=
omcast.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Characters: 20518<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:=C2=A0 =C2=A0None<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I-D Tag:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-pals-mpls-tp-m=
ac-wd-03.txt<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http=
s://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7769" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7769</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOI:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http=
://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7769" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7769</a><br>
<br>
This document specifies a mechanism to signal Media Access Control (MAC)<br=
>
address withdrawal notification using a pseudowire (PW) Associated Channel<=
br>
(ACH).=C2=A0 Such notification is useful when statically provisioned PWs ar=
e<br>
deployed in a Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) or Hierarchical Virtual<br=
>
Private LAN Service (H-VPLS) environment.<br>
<br>
This document is a product of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services Worki=
ng Group of the IETF.<br>
<br>
This is now a Proposed Standard.<br>
<br>
STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track<br>
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestion=
s<br>
for improvements.=C2=A0 Please refer to the current edition of the Official=
<br>
Internet Protocol Standards (<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/standard=
s" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/standard=
s</a>) for the<br>
standardization state and status of this protocol.=C2=A0 Distribution of th=
is<br>
memo is unlimited.<br>
<br>
This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists.<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe, see<br>
=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce" rel=
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=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist"=
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For searching the RFC series, see <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/sea=
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For downloading RFCs, see <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bu=
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Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the<br>
author of the RFC in question, or to <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-edito=
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Association Management Solutions, LLC<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</div><br></div>

--001a11c18614e1dcff052caacf88--


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Subject: [Pals] RFC 7795 on Pseudowire Redundancy on the Switching Provider Edge (S-PE)
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7795

        Title:      Pseudowire Redundancy on the Switching 
                    Provider Edge (S-PE) 
        Author:     J. Dong,
                    H. Wang
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       February 2016
        Mailbox:    jie.dong@huawei.com, 
                    rainsword.wang@huawei.com
        Pages:      9
        Characters: 21064
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-pals-redundancy-spe-03.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7795

        DOI:        http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7795

This document describes Multi-Segment Pseudowire (MS-PW) protection
scenarios in which pseudowire redundancy is provided on the Switching
Provider Edge (S-PE) as defined in RFC 5659.  Operations of the S-PEs
that provide PW redundancy are specified in this document.  Signaling
of the Preferential Forwarding status as defined in RFCs 6870 and
6478 is reused.  This document does not require any change to the
Terminating Provider Edges (T-PEs) of MS-PW.

This document is a product of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the 
standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution of this 
memo is unlimited.

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The RFC Editor Team
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Subject: [Pals] Fwd: RFC 7795 on Pseudowire Redundancy on the Switching Provider Edge (S-PE)
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Another PALS RFC, congratulations to Jie and Haibo!

Cheers,
Andy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:59 PM
Subject: [Pals] RFC 7795 on Pseudowire Redundancy on the Switching Provider
Edge (S-PE)
To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org
Cc: pals@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org


A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.


        RFC 7795

        Title:      Pseudowire Redundancy on the Switching
                    Provider Edge (S-PE)
        Author:     J. Dong,
                    H. Wang
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       February 2016
        Mailbox:    jie.dong@huawei.com,
                    rainsword.wang@huawei.com
        Pages:      9
        Characters: 21064
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-pals-redundancy-spe-03.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7795

        DOI:        http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7795

This document describes Multi-Segment Pseudowire (MS-PW) protection
scenarios in which pseudowire redundancy is provided on the Switching
Provider Edge (S-PE) as defined in RFC 5659.  Operations of the S-PEs
that provide PW redundancy are specified in this document.  Signaling
of the Preferential Forwarding status as defined in RFCs 6870 and
6478 is reused.  This document does not require any change to the
Terminating Provider Edges (T-PEs) of MS-PW.

This document is a product of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services
Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the
standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution of this
memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists.
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The RFC Editor Team
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_______________________________________________
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--001a11c2b464a617a9052cb59d46
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Another PALS RFC, congratulations to Jie and Haibo!</=
div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b clas=
s=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rfc-edi=
tor@rfc-editor.org">rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Fri, =
Feb 26, 2016 at 6:59 PM<br>Subject: [Pals] RFC 7795 on Pseudowire Redundanc=
y on the Switching Provider Edge (S-PE)<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:ietf-annou=
nce@ietf.org">ietf-announce@ietf.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-dist@rfc-ed=
itor.org">rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org</a><br>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.or=
g">pals@ietf.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org">rfc-edit=
or@rfc-editor.org</a><br><br><br>A new Request for Comments is now availabl=
e in online RFC libraries.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 7795<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pseudowire Redundanc=
y on the Switching<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Provi=
der Edge (S-PE)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Author:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0J. Dong,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 H. Wa=
ng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Standards Track<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stream:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0February 2016<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mailbox:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:jie.don=
g@huawei.com">jie.dong@huawei.com</a>,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:rainsword.wang@huawei.com">rainsword.wang@huawei.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Characters: 21064<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:=C2=A0 =C2=A0None<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I-D Tag:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-pals-redundanc=
y-spe-03.txt<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http=
s://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7795" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7795</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOI:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http=
://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7795" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7795</a><br>
<br>
This document describes Multi-Segment Pseudowire (MS-PW) protection<br>
scenarios in which pseudowire redundancy is provided on the Switching<br>
Provider Edge (S-PE) as defined in RFC 5659.=C2=A0 Operations of the S-PEs<=
br>
that provide PW redundancy are specified in this document.=C2=A0 Signaling<=
br>
of the Preferential Forwarding status as defined in RFCs 6870 and<br>
6478 is reused.=C2=A0 This document does not require any change to the<br>
Terminating Provider Edges (T-PEs) of MS-PW.<br>
<br>
This document is a product of the Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services Worki=
ng Group of the IETF.<br>
<br>
This is now a Proposed Standard.<br>
<br>
STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track<br>
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestion=
s<br>
for improvements.=C2=A0 Please refer to the current edition of the Official=
<br>
Internet Protocol Standards (<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/standard=
s" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/standard=
s</a>) for the<br>
standardization state and status of this protocol.=C2=A0 Distribution of th=
is<br>
memo is unlimited.<br>
<br>
This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists.<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe, see<br>
=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce" rel=
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f-announce</a><br>
=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailma=
n/listinfo/rfc-dist</a><br>
<br>
For searching the RFC series, see <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/sea=
rch" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/search=
</a><br>
For downloading RFCs, see <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bu=
lk" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/retriev=
e/bulk</a><br>
<br>
Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the<br>
author of the RFC in question, or to <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-edito=
r.org">rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org</a>.=C2=A0 Unless<br>
specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for<br>
unlimited distribution.<br>
<br>
<br>
The RFC Editor Team<br>
Association Management Solutions, LLC<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Pals mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Pals@ietf.org">Pals@ietf.org</a><br>
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</div><br></div>

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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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Hi all,
I have read the -02 revision and my original concerns are successfully reso=
lved. In particular I accept the authors' decision not to address signaling=
 of the discriminator values using via LDP leaving that to a separate docum=
ent.

I apologize for a delayed response.

Thumb typed on my cellphone
Regards,
Sasha

-------- Original Message --------
From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, February 22, 2016 6:47 PM -0600
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, pals@ietf.org
CC: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv=
-01



Thanks, Andy!

I just uploaded a new revision which should address all the comments receiv=
ed and summarize all the discussion held.

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02

Thanks!

- Carlos.

From: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org>> o=
n behalf of "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>
Date: Monday, February 22, 2016 at 7:12 PM
To: "pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.org>" <pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@ietf.o=
rg>>
Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rt=
g-bfd@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv=
-01

This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new revision to reflect=
 received comments and clear out the TBDs.

Thanks,
Andy


On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:=
agmalis@gmail.com>> wrote:
This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-=
01. You can find the draft at:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01

Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG lis=
t as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.

This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.

We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and supp=
ort publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of course, m=
ore extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or VCCV experts=
.

Thanks,
Andy and Stewart



--_000_bckkyoqlu8v47p4cu1dhxuo61456794520761emailandroidcom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:14px; font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<pre style=3D"word-wrap:break-word; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma; c=
olor:black">Hi all,=0A=
I have read the -02 revision and my original concerns are successfully reso=
lved. In particular I accept the authors' decision not to address signaling=
 of the discriminator values using via LDP leaving that to a separate docum=
ent.=0A=
=0A=
I apologize for a delayed response.=0A=
=0A=
Thumb typed on my cellphone=0A=
Regards,=0A=
Sasha=0A=
=0A=
-------- Original Message --------=0A=
From: &quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quot; &lt;cpignata@cisco.com&gt;=0A=
Date: Mon, February 22, 2016 6:47 PM -0600=0A=
To: &quot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &lt;agmalis@gmail.com&gt;, pals@ietf.org=0A=
CC: rtg-bfd@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: Re: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv=
-01=0A=
=0A=
</pre>
<div>
<div>Thanks, Andy!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I just uploaded a new revision which should address all the comments r=
eceived and summarize all the discussion held.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"">The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:</div>
<div style=3D""><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals=
-seamless-vccv/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-=
vccv/</a></div>
<div style=3D""><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"">There's also a htmlized version available at:</div>
<div style=3D""><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seam=
less-vccv-02">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02<=
/a></div>
<div style=3D""><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"">A diff from the previous version is available at:</div>
<div style=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-p=
als-seamless-vccv-02">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pals-s=
eamless-vccv-02</a></div>
<div style=3D""><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"">Thanks!</div>
<div style=3D""><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"">&#8212; Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; border-bottom:medium none; border-left:medium none; padding-bottom:0i=
n; padding-left:0in; padding-right:0in; border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid; borde=
r-right:medium none; padding-top:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Rtg-bfd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org">rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of &q=
uot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, February 22, 2016 at =
7:12 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ie=
tf.org">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org">pals@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd=
@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.or=
g">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: PALS Working Group Las=
t Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new re=
vision to reflect received comments and clear out the TBDs.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">This is the&nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:13px">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Group</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Last</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px"=
>Call</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">&nbsp;for&nbsp;</span>draft-ietf=
-pals-seamless-vccv-01.
 You can find the draft at:
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#1155cc"><u><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a></u></font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has=
 been copied to the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PAL=
S list only.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">This&nbsp;<span>last</span>&nbsp;<span>call</=
span>&nbsp;will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">We would appreciate even just responses that =
you've read the draft and support publication, even if you don't have any s=
pecific comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. especiall=
y from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Andy and Stewart</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_bckkyoqlu8v47p4cu1dhxuo61456794520761emailandroidcom_--


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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 22:19:26 -0500
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To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
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Cc: "Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pals] PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
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--001a1134faf2bf2606052cf43c9c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sasha,

Thanks! Now the ball=E2=80=99s in my court. :-)

Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have read the -02 revision and my original concerns are successfully re=
solved. In particular I accept the authors' decision not to address signali=
ng of the discriminator values using via LDP leaving that to a separate doc=
ument.
>
> I apologize for a delayed response.
>
> Thumb typed on my cellphone
> Regards,
> Sasha
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
> Date: Mon, February 22, 2016 6:47 PM -0600
> To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, pals@ietf.org
>
> CC: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vc=
cv-01
>
>
> Thanks, Andy!
>
> I just uploaded a new revision which should address all the comments
> received and summarize all the discussion held.
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv/
>
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-02
>
> Thanks!
>
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>
> From: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Andrew G. Malis" <
> agmalis@gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, February 22, 2016 at 7:12 PM
> To: "pals@ietf.org" <pals@ietf.org>
> Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: PALS Working Group Last Call for
> draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>
> This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new revision to
> reflect received comments and clear out the TBDs.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This is the PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vc=
cv-01.
>> You can find the draft at:
>>
>> *https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01
>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01>*
>>
>> Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has been copied to the BFD WG
>> list as well. Please, submit comments to the PALS list only.
>>
>> This last call will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.
>>
>> We would appreciate even just responses that you've read the draft and
>> support publication, even if you don't have any specific comments. Of
>> course, more extensive comments are invited. especially from BFD and/or
>> VCCV experts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andy and Stewart
>>
>>
>

--001a1134faf2bf2606052cf43c9c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Sasha,<div><br></div><div>Thanks! Now the ball=E2=80=99s i=
n my court. :-)</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 29, 2=
016 at 8:08 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<pre style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;colo=
r:black">Hi all,
I have read the -02 revision and my original concerns are successfully reso=
lved. In particular I accept the authors&#39; decision not to address signa=
ling of the discriminator values using via LDP leaving that to a separate d=
ocument.

I apologize for a delayed response.

Thumb typed on my cellphone
Regards,
Sasha

-------- Original Message --------
From: &quot;Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignat=
a@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;
Date: Mon, February 22, 2016 6:47 PM -0600
To: &quot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:pals@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">pals@ietf.org</a><div><div class=3D"h5">
CC: <a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org<=
/a>
Subject: Re: PALS Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv=
-01

</div></div></pre><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<div>Thanks, Andy!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I just uploaded a new revision which should address all the comments r=
eceived and summarize all the discussion held.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-v=
ccv/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pals-se=
amless-vccv/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There&#39;s also a htmlized version available at:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-0=
2" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-v=
ccv-02</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A diff from the previous version is available at:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pals-seamles=
s-vccv-02" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf=
-pals-seamless-vccv-02</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;border-bottom:medium none;border-left:medium none;padding-bottom:0in;padd=
ing-left:0in;padding-right:0in;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;border-right:me=
dium none;padding-top:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Rtg-bfd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org</a>&g=
t; on behalf of &quot;Andrew G. Malis&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, February 22, 2016 at =
7:12 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pals@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">pals@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pal=
s@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">pals@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:rtg-bfd@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: PALS Working Group Las=
t Call for draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This ends the WG last call. Carlos, please upload a new re=
vision to reflect received comments and clear out the TBDs.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Andrew G. Malis=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">This is the=C2=A0</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:13px">PALS</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Working</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Group</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Last</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13p=
x">Call</span><span style=3D"font-size:13px">=C2=A0for=C2=A0</span>draft-ie=
tf-pals-seamless-vccv-01.
 You can find the draft at:
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#1155cc"><u><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/draft-ietf-pals-seamless-vccv-01</a></u></font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Because of the subject matter, this WG LC has=
 been copied to the BFD WG list as well. Please, submit comments to the PAL=
S list only.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">This=C2=A0<span>last</span>=C2=A0<span>call</=
span>=C2=A0will run for two weeks, ending on February 22.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">We would appreciate even just responses that =
you&#39;ve read the draft and support publication, even if you don&#39;t ha=
ve any specific comments. Of course, more extensive comments are invited. e=
specially from BFD and/or VCCV experts.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px">Andy and Stewart</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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