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([2001:67c:370:128:94b2:e54c:9967:3e5f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w2sm1946388pgm.18.2019.11.21.00.06.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Nov 2019 00:06:52 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:06:48 +0800 References: <157414653421.14016.7862208637007986260@ietfa.amsl.com> To: pals@ietf.org, draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <157414653421.14016.7862208637007986260@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt X-BeenThere: pals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services dicussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 08:06:59 -0000 Hi, Please can the authors help me understand why this is a PALS draft, or = indeed why it is a draft at all? I don=E2=80=99t think it proposes to extend the PALS technology. It = simply uses PWs to carry L2 (presumably Ethernet) across a provider = network, something that PWs already do. Maybe I don=E2=80=99t understand the draft, but this looks like a = deployment description that does not need standardisation. Please can the authors help the WG better understand why this needs to = be an IETF specification? Best regards Stewart > On 19 Nov 2019, at 14:55, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >=20 >=20 > Title : Efficient Layer 2 Multicast with = Point-to-Point Pseudowires > Authors : Weiqiang Cheng > Jie Dong > Filename : draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2019-11-18 >=20 > Abstract: > Multicast services such as Evolved Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast > Service (eMBMS) become more and more popular in mobile networks. In > mobile transport network, it is important for the operators to > provide efficient transport of multicast services with existing > network devices. This document describes a mechanism of using = point- > to-point Pseudowires (PW) [RFC3985] to achieve efficient layer 2 > multicast transportation in mobile transport networks.The document > gives a multicast method by utilizing a Point-to-Point (P2P) path > between nodes in a packet transport network , according to the > destination IP address. With it, the PTN nodes can replicate and > forward the service message, which are received from the multicast > server, to the plurality of multicast clients corresponding to the > destination IP address. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01= >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01= >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Thu Nov 21 00:28:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227211208A5; 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n0SZp3ZH245GYt9tupNutMBtuFfxtcQ3Jm9WoD4aW+AeXX/G2jKyJsxHYAmBZozFPe5a0uhW63gA +7wRCUVahH3yisGuQJk0NYgajfL5z6kbVAt+VGTDNmIX3ibHUxNS8OvfYH+rM6qTObBumz33O98O FsCaSD4AAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail-9148FA4A-C22A-484E-9CFA-67EE2CAFE774-- From nobody Thu Nov 21 00:39:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E79120940; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 00:38:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DcgjXPIrR4kO; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 00:38:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E4C5120801; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 00:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.9]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app11-12011 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eeb5dd64d129bd-8b26a; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:38:42 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eeb5dd64d129bd-8b26a X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc (unknown[31.133.155.174]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr05-12005 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee55dd64d116c9-cba76; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:38:42 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee55dd64d116c9-cba76 From: "Weiqiang Cheng" To: "'Stewart Bryant'" , , References: <157414653421.14016.7862208637007986260@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:38:41 +0800 Message-ID: <01b601d5a047$14981110$3dc83330$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdWgQqq7i2+k7ZV6S+qWVLJ7rAX/bgAAgeIA Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Subject: [Pals] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtY2hlbmct?= =?utf-8?q?pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: pals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services dicussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 08:39:00 -0000 Hi Stewart, Thank you for your comments. The 00 version of draft was submitted to the WG about 2 years ago. We've deployed it in our network and it works well. I updated it because = I received some information from someone who met the similar issue. The solution can provide P2MP services with the p2p PW. It is useful for = operators those deployed the P2P PW (hardware only support P2P PW) only = but they need to support P2MP services. It is just for information and experience sharing.=20 We updated it and would like to collect comments from group if we can = continue the work here.=20 B.R. Weiqiang Cheng -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Stewart Bryant =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 16:07 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: pals@ietf.org; = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt Hi, Please can the authors help me understand why this is a PALS draft, or = indeed why it is a draft at all? I don=E2=80=99t think it proposes to extend the PALS technology. It = simply uses PWs to carry L2 (presumably Ethernet) across a provider = network, something that PWs already do. Maybe I don=E2=80=99t understand the draft, but this looks like a = deployment description that does not need standardisation. Please can the authors help the WG better understand why this needs to = be an IETF specification? Best regards Stewart > On 19 Nov 2019, at 14:55, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >=20 >=20 > Title : Efficient Layer 2 Multicast with = Point-to-Point Pseudowires > Authors : Weiqiang Cheng > Jie Dong > Filename : draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2019-11-18 >=20 > Abstract: > Multicast services such as Evolved Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast > Service (eMBMS) become more and more popular in mobile networks. In > mobile transport network, it is important for the operators to > provide efficient transport of multicast services with existing > network devices. This document describes a mechanism of using = point- > to-point Pseudowires (PW) [RFC3985] to achieve efficient layer 2 > multicast transportation in mobile transport networks.The document > gives a multicast method by utilizing a Point-to-Point (P2P) path > between nodes in a packet transport network , according to the > destination IP address. With it, the PTN nodes can replicate and > forward the service message, which are received from the multicast > server, to the plurality of multicast clients corresponding to the > destination IP address. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-0= 1 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt _______________________________________________ Pals mailing list Pals@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals From nobody Thu Nov 21 02:48:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EC91208D2; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 02:48:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zipw5dtw0GyS; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 02:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x102d.google.com (mail-pj1-x102d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D13D1208BD; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 02:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x102d.google.com with SMTP id f7so1293941pjw.5; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 02:48:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=78ROIJg1fg/cC1NuEmNl2oiR/5bAI2+wxQh0ghOUS9k=; b=O6mfecwSZk9QlsJVSJb7zdYbO+ok2LP1qMP3dFX/gZkgStggi8KLbWJgI1Z6OEcb0Y zwH4sKP6TlQeDH97JHjoInRVV1/zPR2hJBdXPWCfRS+KJ5eOFsfza5VwjKj/pOkXSQF/ 4fSoJeaQUBDX0/DJgdewGf0udyAd+9ZY1nlJpO2r/1ZocXAxERRopHVLVsbRqsv60UxH eJq7ewHjeEvpdeat+PKt/+bepndqIdCCuD1sGJC5aZW1FqauKrNfYuqLoqseRJ3IyY0h dzMxF+xrW4ukxIlNZG3ybztV2c+3w0Q+4fTN0y4KyPNmhJpGPxNVYVb0l8J7iIFduLNM y6EQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=78ROIJg1fg/cC1NuEmNl2oiR/5bAI2+wxQh0ghOUS9k=; b=IX1rVbZYGDMXbQMoDs3szZVVGktkrYwZufVNZpRyBr3yjVRSzh6dKVDBMj2c8frTGB b3XZ22RE+y3YWA8d5Dh4ooGT0iJj6H1spelSOMnB3WJW2hpI64pweAJj7rKija4VGRmC p8Y0xM/tGbToIjBxs7YYmFkGsUO99OUxlEjYQwK+y4K0Cx1NFhCnAD8nSC9DMqsn6uxf gzYyzeItkxeI/qHpzt7FjNVBHTfGzRPelbA/0l6WbHBoCYkwF55mWMhKMLYQXRaOsgOm gu/Adr1jj9Xf7SG1n9n2gl9i1BoqPpb7omX84qLP4Xwr3fBsMRthGAHTplz5yxDHsZuY VOkA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUwl0DELPC5q9Rk1m1vj0mPEAaw4QaJwNLfUIoFOLTLcN/DDpbX ZOomg73NRWib6mj6Z87ZqBRE4cizX0Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwMeMpOGzXiHsixEcpvTsx3LMAG7+nNGUCyrT+UsGC3TY0pMFxMBWRs3J6dRyEgiA9BQcE2yg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ff04:: with SMTP id ce4mr10543322pjb.133.1574333301471; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 02:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:9015:553e:9cf9:3462? ([2001:67c:370:128:9015:553e:9cf9:3462]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 13sm2737243pgq.72.2019.11.21.02.48.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Nov 2019 02:48:20 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: Stewart Bryant In-Reply-To: <01b601d5a047$14981110$3dc83330$@com> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:48:18 +0800 Cc: pals@ietf.org, draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <157414653421.14016.7862208637007986260@ietfa.amsl.com> <01b601d5a047$14981110$3dc83330$@com> To: Weiqiang Cheng X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt X-BeenThere: pals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services dicussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 10:48:24 -0000 Normally the IETF does not publish relatively simple applicability RFCs. = If we did we would be overloaded. Whilst not a reference document the draft will be in the archive for = ever so could be pointed to in network design advice if needed. Dave pointed to the BBF which is a organisation.that specialises in = deployment considerations. Speaking entirely as an individual, I am not convinced that we should = take this draft any further in the PALS wg. Best regards Stewart > On 21 Nov 2019, at 16:38, Weiqiang Cheng = wrote: >=20 > Hi Stewart, > Thank you for your comments. > The 00 version of draft was submitted to the WG about 2 years ago. > We've deployed it in our network and it works well. I updated it = because I received some information from someone who met the similar = issue. > The solution can provide P2MP services with the p2p PW. It is useful = for operators those deployed the P2P PW (hardware only support P2P PW) = only but they need to support P2MP services. > It is just for information and experience sharing.=20 >=20 > We updated it and would like to collect comments from group if we can = continue the work here.=20 >=20 > B.R. > Weiqiang Cheng >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Stewart Bryant > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5= 16:07 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: pals@ietf.org; = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Please can the authors help me understand why this is a PALS draft, or = indeed why it is a draft at all? >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think it proposes to extend the PALS technology. It = simply uses PWs to carry L2 (presumably Ethernet) across a provider = network, something that PWs already do. >=20 > Maybe I don=E2=80=99t understand the draft, but this looks like a = deployment description that does not need standardisation. >=20 > Please can the authors help the WG better understand why this needs to = be an IETF specification? >=20 > Best regards >=20 > Stewart >=20 >> On 19 Nov 2019, at 14:55, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >>=20 >>=20 >> Title : Efficient Layer 2 Multicast with = Point-to-Point Pseudowires >> Authors : Weiqiang Cheng >> Jie Dong >> Filename : draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt >> Pages : 6 >> Date : 2019-11-18 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> Multicast services such as Evolved Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast >> Service (eMBMS) become more and more popular in mobile networks. In >> mobile transport network, it is important for the operators to >> provide efficient transport of multicast services with existing >> network devices. This document describes a mechanism of using = point- >> to-point Pseudowires (PW) [RFC3985] to achieve efficient layer 2 >> multicast transportation in mobile transport networks.The document >> gives a multicast method by utilizing a Point-to-Point (P2P) path >> between nodes in a packet transport network , according to the >> destination IP address. With it, the PTN nodes can replicate and >> forward the service message, which are received from the multicast >> server, to the plurality of multicast clients corresponding to the >> destination IP address. >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast/ >>=20 >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 >> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01= >>=20 >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Pals mailing list > Pals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Pals mailing list > Pals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals From nobody Sun Nov 24 23:39:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D08812081B; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 23:39:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hJNTj5q8qBOl; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 23:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6F612080B; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 23:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.19]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app09-12009 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee95ddb8516a5b-d3312; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 15:39:02 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee95ddb8516a5b-d3312 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc (unknown[10.2.51.64]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr10-12010 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eea5ddb85153bc-fb30c; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 15:39:02 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eea5ddb85153bc-fb30c From: "Weiqiang Cheng" To: "'Stewart Bryant'" Cc: , References: <157414653421.14016.7862208637007986260@ietfa.amsl.com> <01b601d5a047$14981110$3dc83330$@com> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 15:38:59 +0800 Message-ID: <003c01d5a363$66e9b620$34bd2260$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdWgWTdxWnWQMe6NSoyzjsX38VSD4wAh5/gA Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Subject: [Pals] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtY2hlbmct?= =?utf-8?q?pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: pals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services dicussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:39:20 -0000 Hi Stewart, Thanks a lot for your comments. The current version just gave some description on the application = scenario. In order to deploy the solution to our network, we also develop some new = protocol extension especially when we design the protection solution = under the application scenario. We will provide you more information about it further.=20 B.R. Weiqiang Cheng -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Stewart Bryant =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 18:48 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Weiqiang Cheng =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org; = pals@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt Normally the IETF does not publish relatively simple applicability RFCs. = If we did we would be overloaded. Whilst not a reference document the draft will be in the archive for = ever so could be pointed to in network design advice if needed. Dave pointed to the BBF which is a organisation.that specialises in = deployment considerations. Speaking entirely as an individual, I am not convinced that we should = take this draft any further in the PALS wg. Best regards Stewart > On 21 Nov 2019, at 16:38, Weiqiang Cheng = wrote: >=20 > Hi Stewart, > Thank you for your comments. > The 00 version of draft was submitted to the WG about 2 years ago. > We've deployed it in our network and it works well. I updated it = because I received some information from someone who met the similar = issue. > The solution can provide P2MP services with the p2p PW. It is useful = for operators those deployed the P2P PW (hardware only support P2P PW) = only but they need to support P2MP services. > It is just for information and experience sharing.=20 >=20 > We updated it and would like to collect comments from group if we can = continue the work here.=20 >=20 > B.R. > Weiqiang Cheng >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Stewart Bryant > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 16:07 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: pals@ietf.org; = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Please can the authors help me understand why this is a PALS draft, or = indeed why it is a draft at all? >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think it proposes to extend the PALS technology. It = simply uses PWs to carry L2 (presumably Ethernet) across a provider = network, something that PWs already do. >=20 > Maybe I don=E2=80=99t understand the draft, but this looks like a = deployment description that does not need standardisation. >=20 > Please can the authors help the WG better understand why this needs to = be an IETF specification? >=20 > Best regards >=20 > Stewart >=20 >> On 19 Nov 2019, at 14:55, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >>=20 >>=20 >> Title : Efficient Layer 2 Multicast with = Point-to-Point Pseudowires >> Authors : Weiqiang Cheng >> Jie Dong >> Filename : draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt >> Pages : 6 >> Date : 2019-11-18 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> Multicast services such as Evolved Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast >> Service (eMBMS) become more and more popular in mobile networks. In >> mobile transport network, it is important for the operators to >> provide efficient transport of multicast services with existing >> network devices. This document describes a mechanism of using = point- >> to-point Pseudowires (PW) [RFC3985] to achieve efficient layer 2 >> multicast transportation in mobile transport networks.The document >> gives a multicast method by utilizing a Point-to-Point (P2P) path >> between nodes in a packet transport network , according to the >> destination IP address. With it, the PTN nodes can replicate and >> forward the service message, which are received from the multicast >> server, to the plurality of multicast clients corresponding to the >> destination IP address. >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast/ >>=20 >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 >> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-0= 1 >>=20 >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Pals mailing list > Pals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Pals mailing list > Pals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals _______________________________________________ Pals mailing list Pals@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals From nobody Mon Nov 25 02:36:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7D012088B; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 02:36:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u4vN3Zqs_Iiv; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 02:36:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F2C12088A; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 02:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.9]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app04-12004 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee45ddbae9025a-d8a1a; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 18:36:00 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee45ddbae9025a-d8a1a X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc (unknown[10.2.51.64]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr05-12005 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee55ddbae8e4e4-f2892; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 18:36:00 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee55ddbae8e4e4-f2892 From: "Weiqiang Cheng" To: "'David Sinicrope'" , "'Stewart Bryant'" Cc: , References: <10D2808C-26FA-462B-A652-D04F4DD15EF8@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <10D2808C-26FA-462B-A652-D04F4DD15EF8@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 18:35:49 +0800 Message-ID: <008c01d5a37c$1b05ba10$51112e30$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008D_01D5A3BF.2928FA10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHVnqZ5OMjPEZfCmkyGQ6gvXuEENaeVR/EAgAAF8ICABjvSsA== Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Subject: [Pals] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtY2hlbmct?= =?utf-8?q?pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: pals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services dicussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 10:36:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01D5A3BF.2928FA10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, Thank you very much for your information. We=E2=80=99ve read the document you provided and the application = scenarios and solutions are different from the document. The solution here is intent to give a multicast solution, the OAM and = the protection functions in the network which only support p2p PW. The = solution is different from the solution in BBF document.=20 =20 B.R. Weiqiang Cheng =20 =20 =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 David Sinicrope =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 16:28 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Stewart Bryant =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org; = pals@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt =20 https://www.broadband-forum.org/technical/download/TR-221_Issue-1.pdf = =20 See Appendix F =20 And=20 =20 https://www.broadband-forum.org/technical/download/TR-224.pdf = =20 Section 13 =20 Not sure these give the detail needed but they seem to address the same = topic as the draft. =20 Dave =20 On Nov 21, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Stewart Bryant = wrote: =EF=BB=BFHi, Please can the authors help me understand why this is a PALS draft, or = indeed why it is a draft at all? I don=E2=80=99t think it proposes to extend the PALS technology. It = simply uses PWs to carry L2 (presumably Ethernet) across a provider = network, something that PWs already do. Maybe I don=E2=80=99t understand the draft, but this looks like a = deployment description that does not need standardisation. Please can the authors help the WG better understand why this needs to = be an IETF specification? Best regards Stewart On 19 Nov 2019, at 14:55, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: =20 =20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. =20 =20 Title : Efficient Layer 2 Multicast with Point-to-Point = Pseudowires Authors : Weiqiang Cheng Jie Dong Filename : draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2019-11-18 =20 Abstract: Multicast services such as Evolved Multimedia Broadcast/Multicast Service (eMBMS) become more and more popular in mobile networks. In mobile transport network, it is important for the operators to provide efficient transport of multicast services with existing network devices. This document describes a mechanism of using point- to-point Pseudowires (PW) [RFC3985] to achieve efficient layer 2 multicast transportation in mobile transport networks.The document gives a multicast method by utilizing a Point-to-Point (P2P) path between nodes in a packet transport network , according to the destination IP address. With it, the PTN nodes can replicate and forward the service message, which are received from the multicast server, to the plurality of multicast clients corresponding to the destination IP address. =20 =20 The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast/ =20 There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-0= 1 =20 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01 =20 =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. =20 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ =20 _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt _______________________________________________ Pals mailing list Pals@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01D5A3BF.2928FA10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi David,

Thank you very much for your information.

We=E2=80=99ve read the document you provided and the application = scenarios and solutions are different from the = document.

The solution here is intent to give a multicast solution, the OAM and = the protection functions in the network which only support p2p PW. The = solution is different from the solution in BBF document. =

 

B.R.

Weiqiang Cheng

 

 

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Pals [mailto:pals-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 = David = Sinicrope
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 = 16:28
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Stewart = Bryant
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast@ietf.org; = pals@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Pals] I-D Action: = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt

 

See Appendix F

 

And 

 

Section 13

 

Not sure these give the detail = needed but they seem to address the same topic as the = draft.

 

Dave

 



On = Nov 21, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Stewart Bryant = <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> = wrote:

=EF=BB=BFHi,

Please can the = authors help me understand why this is a PALS draft, or indeed why it is = a draft at all?

I don=E2=80=99t think it proposes to extend the = PALS technology. It simply uses PWs to carry L2 (presumably Ethernet) = across a provider network, something that PWs already do.

Maybe I = don=E2=80=99t understand the draft, but this looks like a deployment = description that does not need standardisation.

Please can the = authors help the WG better understand why this needs to be an IETF = specification?

Best = regards

Stewart


On 19 Nov 2019, at 14:55, = internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

 

 

A New Internet-Draft is available = from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories.

 

 

      Title =           : Efficient = Layer 2 Multicast with Point-to-Point = Pseudowires

      Authors =         : Weiqiang = Cheng

          =             &= nbsp; Jie Dong

   Filename =        : = draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicast-01.txt

   Pages =           : = 6

   Date =            : = 2019-11-18

 

Abstract:

 Multicast services such as = Evolved Multimedia = Broadcast/Multicast

 Service (eMBMS) become more = and more popular in mobile networks. =  In

 mobile transport network, it = is important for the operators = to

 provide efficient transport = of multicast services with = existing

 network devices.  This = document describes a mechanism of using = point-

 to-point Pseudowires (PW) = [RFC3985] to achieve efficient layer = 2

 multicast transportation in = mobile transport networks.The = document

 gives a multicast method by = utilizing a Point-to-Point (P2P) = path

 between nodes in a packet = transport network , according to = the

 destination IP address. =  With it, the PTN nodes can replicate = and

 forward the service message, = which are received from the = multicast

 server, to the plurality of = multicast clients corresponding to = the

 destination IP = address.

 

 

The IETF datatracker status page = for this draft is:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-mul= ticast/

 

There are also htmlized versions = available at:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-multicas= t-01

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cheng-pals-p2p-p= w-multicast-01

 

A diff from the previous version is = available at:

https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cheng-pals-p2p-pw-= multicast-01

 

 

Please note that it may take a = couple of minutes from the time of = submission

until the htmlized version and diff = are available at = tools.ietf.org.

 

Internet-Drafts are also available = by anonymous FTP at:

ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

 

_______________________________________________

I-D-Announce mailing = list

I-D-Announce@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce

Internet-Draft directories: = http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html

or = ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


_______________________________________________
Pals = mailing = list
Pals@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pals<= /o:p>

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