From femi@cisco.com Wed Feb 2 13:33:15 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477473A6D79 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:33:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iNILPYasf8Xg for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:33:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E8C3A6DBD for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:33:13 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: ams-iport-2.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Feb 2011 21:36:33 +0000 Received: from dhcp-144-254-153-56.cisco.com (dhcp-144-254-153-56.cisco.com [144.254.153.56]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p12LaW1b029579; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:36:33 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-547812891 From: Olufemi Komolafe In-Reply-To: <006501cbb9ba$d40e3e70$7c2abb50$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:36:32 +0000 Message-Id: References: <006501cbb9ba$d40e3e70$7c2abb50$@olddog.co.uk> To: Daniel King X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Cc: pce@ietf.org, msiva@cisco.com, qzhao@huawei.com Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:33:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail-2-547812891 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dan, I recently read this draft and found it pretty interesting. However, one main issue that struck me was that the approach in Section = 7.2 for the core tree computation seemed very computational expensive. = Unless I'm missing something, It seems like the draft is suggesting = computing the VSPTs for every leaf BN and then exhaustively working = through all the potential combinations of paths to find the optimal = combination for the core tree. The number of evaluations needed struck = me as potentially being very large and made me wonder whether there was = a smarter way to try to compute the optimal core tree? Is it possible = to try to split up this computation somehow by distributing it = judiciously between the PCEs? For example perhaps by each PCE = essentially computing the optimal core "sub-tree" from each ingress node = for the domain to all the "downstream" BNs that are reached exclusively = by it? And then the source PCE has to combine these sub-trees = optimally? I'm not 100% sure that approach will work but nevertheless I = think trying to avoid tediously iterating over all possible path = combinations to compute the optimal core tree is worthy of some more = consideration. Some minor typos: Section 1. Introduction=20 Incomplete sentence: "The ability to compute......" Section 2. Terminology "lead nodes" instead of "leaf nodes" for Destination Section 5. Requirements Points (5) to (8) do not really read like requirements. Perhaps = re-word? Section 6. Objective Functions Points (1) to (4) do not really read like objective functions. Perhaps = re-word? Section 7.1 Core Trees Figure 3: Some of the labels on the right half of the diagram seem = incorrect (i.e. should the two (XN3_1)s should be (XN1_2) and (XN3_2) = respectively?) Section 7.4.1 The Extension of RP Object Errors in second sentence of text for C bit value of 1 Section 7.4.2 The PCE Sequence Object Second sentence: "this objects" Regards, Femi On 21 Jan 2011, at 22:30, Daniel King wrote: > Hi All, > =20 > We have created a new version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures (07). > =20 > = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07= .txt > =20 > This version was created to fix a number of minor edits, raise the = issue of manageability and help facilitate protection scenarios = discussed during IETF 79 in Beijing. The draft update includes: > =20 > 8. Protection Section > This section is used to highlight issues discussed in Beijing. Thanks = to JP and all for your questions. We expect this topic to require more = discussion and one scenario is that it should be addressed in separate = document. The whole protection topic (not just for P2MP and = multi-domain) will require a much more detailed analyses and we will = follow-up on the various issues with a separate email/discussion. =20 > =20 > 9. Manageability Considerations > Obviously management of inter-domain P2MP path computations = potentially raise a number issues and we have begun to document them. = Each sub-areas will require further deliberation so please feel free to = comment and make suggestions. > Finally, the authors would like to request working group adoption of = this draft. > =20 > Thanks! = =20 > Quintin > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce --Apple-Mail-2-547812891 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Dan,

I recently read this draft = and found it pretty interesting.

However, one = main issue that struck me was that the approach in Section 7.2 for the = core tree computation seemed very computational expensive.  Unless = I'm missing something, It seems like the draft is suggesting computing = the VSPTs for every leaf BN and then exhaustively working through all = the potential combinations of paths to find the optimal combination for = the core tree.  The number of evaluations needed struck me as = potentially being very large and made me wonder whether there was a = smarter way to try to compute the optimal core tree?    Is it = possible to try to split up this computation somehow by distributing it = judiciously between the PCEs?  For example perhaps by each PCE = essentially computing the optimal core "sub-tree" from each ingress node = for the domain to all the "downstream" BNs that are reached exclusively = by it?   And then the source PCE has to combine these sub-trees = optimally?  I'm not 100% sure that approach will work but = nevertheless I think trying to avoid tediously iterating over all = possible path combinations to compute the optimal core tree is =  worthy of some more consideration.

Some = minor typos:
Section 1. = Introduction 
Incomplete sentence: "The ability to = compute......"

Section 2. = Terminology
"lead nodes" instead of "leaf nodes" for = Destination

Section 5. = Requirements
Points (5) to (8) do not really read like = requirements.  Perhaps re-word?

Section 6. = Objective Functions
Points (1) to (4) do not really read like = objective functions. Perhaps re-word?

Section = 7.1 Core Trees
Figure 3: Some of the labels on the right half = of the diagram seem incorrect (i.e. should the two (XN3_1)s should be = (XN1_2) and (XN3_2) respectively?)

Section = 7.4.1 The Extension of RP Object
Errors in second sentence of = text for C bit value of 1

Section 7.4.2 The PCE = Sequence Object
Second sentence: "this = objects"

Regards,
Femi

On 21 Jan 2011, at 22:30, Daniel King wrote:

Hi All,
We have created a new version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures = (07).
 
X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F5F3A6A17 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:46:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lj3mX4Jvrn6p for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 972F23A6B16 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LG20093ZCQ8FO@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:49:20 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LG200BP4CQ7R2@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:49:20 +0800 (CST) Received: from Htiplqw12q ([10.193.34.152]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LG2001TMCQ19U@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:49:19 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 14:49:13 -0800 From: Dhruv Dhody In-reply-to: <001d01cbc3ba$e1289e20$a379da60$%zhao@huawei.com> To: 'Quintin Zhao' , pce@ietf.org Message-id: <002d01cbc3f4$953a8cf0$9822c10a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_jrFl/nOaLbwnVCFTc+CqgQ)" Thread-index: AQDn4hONpQyfp0QwHme31o0Z/1jgCpW2h7tQgAEXiXCAAITVAA== Subject: Re: [Pce] comments for draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 22:46:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_jrFl/nOaLbwnVCFTc+CqgQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Quintin, Thanks for your comments. I am working on a document about domain sequence and will publish it before the next IETF meeting. I will take care to add a section regarding the correlation between domain-seq and PCE-seq. Regards, Dhruv Dhruv Dhody Senior Technical Leader Huawei-Santa Clara, CA Work: (408) 330 4940 Cell: (408) 667 8127 This email and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained here in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! _____ From: Quintin Zhao [mailto:quintin.zhao@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:56 AM To: dhruvd@huawei.com; pce@ietf.org Subject: FW: comments for draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07 Dhruv, Thanks for your very detailed comments and suggestions! Included here are my comments for your suggestions and at the same time, I also forward our discussions to the list to get more ideas/inputs from others. 1) Definition of Core-Tree: we will update the definition of the core-tree to make it more clearer based on your suggestion here. 2) Domain sequence and PCE sequence: If we assume that the PCE sequence can be directly implied by the domain sequence, I agree with what you suggested here to get rid of the PCE-sequence object in the draft. We need to specify the method for any PCE to find out the PCE sequence based on the domain sequence either in this draft or in a separate draft. Also in the inter-AS scenario, where one AS also consists of multiple areas, the representation of the domain sequence and the method to find out the PCE sequence also should be specified. Since this is also true for the p2p computation, maybe it is better to have a separate document to clearly specify the representation of domain sequence and relationship between the domain sequence and PCE sequences. 3) SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree): One way we can address this issue is that the transit PCE in the core-tree computation can decide the number of paths sent upstream based on the configuration and also based on if it is a shortest path tree or not. When it is SPT, the number of the paths send upstream will be 1. Quintin From: Dhruv Dhody [mailto:dhruvd@huawei.com ] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:19 PM To: qzhao@huawei.com Subject: comments for draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07 Quintin, I have following comments on the "draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07", any comments on this are welcome from all. 1) Definition of Core-Tree: Core-Tree should be a P2MP tree with Root as the source node, leaves as the entry boundary nodes of leaf domain. There is no need to include domain nodes or inter-AS TE links or transit boundary nodes in its definition. What I mean is once phase 1 is completed and PCE(1) has received all the VSPT for all the entry boundary node of leaf domain, its objective is to find an optimal tree meeting the OF, there is no need to specifically suggest what should be the transit node and what should be the branch node while computing the Core-Tree. If confidentiality is a concern, path-key mechanism shall be applied in those domains but the core-tree definition is not impacted. To summarize the issue here is the clear definition of domain-tree, core-tree and final P2MP tree. Domain-Tree: Should consist of domain-sequence in form of a tree and has no information about BNs and inter-AS TE links. Core-Tree: A Core Tree is defined as a tree which satisfies the following conditions: o The root of the core tree is the ingress LSR in the root domain; o The leaves of the core tree are the entry nodes in the leaf domains; o The transit and branch nodes of the core tree MAY be from the entry and exit nodes from the transit and branch domains. They can also be nodes within the domains. Final Tree: A set of LSRs and TE links that comprise the path of a P2MP TE LSP from its ingress LSR to all of its egress LSRs. 2) Domain-Seq V/s PCE-Seq RFC 5441 [BRPC] method uses IRO and sub-objects to represent domain-sequence. In P2MP we should continue to use the similar approach. This concept of PCE-Sequence, where a sequence of PCE based on the domain sequence should be decided and attached in the PCReq at the very beginning of path computation. It is much simpler and advantageous to carry only domain-sequence rather than PCE-Sequence. Advantages a) All PCE must be aware of all other PCEs in all domain for PCE-Sequence. There is no clear method for this. In domain-sequence PCE should be aware of the domains and not all the PCEs serving the domain. PCE needs to be aware of the neighboring PCEs as done by discovery protocols. b) There maybe multiple PCE in a domain, the selection of PCE shouldn't be made at the PCC/PCE(1). This decision is made only at the neighboring PCE which is completely aware of states of PCE via notification messages. c) Domain sequence would be compatible to P2P inter-domain BRPC method as described in RFC 5441. There is no need for PCE-Sequence and it doesn't give any benefits over Domain Seq. 3) SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree) In case of Shortest Path Tree, VSPT is enough for making the core-tree and downstream PCE can continue to do pruning as done in P2P BRPC procedure. We need to avoid pruning only in case of SPT and other objective function. Also the core-tree procedure will guarantee to give optimal path with SPT if core-tree is optimal and grafting is done. The same cannot be guaranteed for MCT. This is just for your information, so that an informed decision can be taken based on this. Regards, Dhruv Dhruv Dhody Senior Technical Leader Huawei-Santa Clara, CA Work: (408) 330 4940 Cell: (408) 667 8127 This email and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained here in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! --Boundary_(ID_jrFl/nOaLbwnVCFTc+CqgQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dear Quintin,

 

Thanks for your comments.

I am working on a document about domain sequence and will publish it before the next IETF meeting.

I will take care to add a section regarding the correlation between domain-seq and PCE-seq.

 

Regards,

Dhruv

 

Dhruv Dhody

Senior Technical Leader

Huawei-Santa Clara, CA

Work: (408) 330 4940

Cell: (408) 667 8127

This email and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained here in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!

From: Quintin Zhao [mailto:quintin.zhao@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:56 AM
To: dhruvd@huawei.com; pce@ietf.org
Subject: FW: comments for draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07

 

Dhruv,

 

Thanks for your very detailed comments and suggestions!

 

Included here are my comments for your suggestions and at the same time, I also forward our discussions to the list to get more ideas/inputs from others.

 

 

1)      Definition of Core-Tree:

 

we will update the definition of the core-tree to make it more clearer based on your suggestion here.

 

2)      Domain sequence and PCE sequence:

 

If we assume that the PCE sequence can be directly implied by the domain sequence, I agree with what you suggested here to get rid of the PCE-sequence object in the draft.  We need to specify the method for any PCE to find out the PCE sequence based on the domain sequence either in this draft or in a separate draft. Also in the inter-AS scenario, where one AS also consists of multiple areas, the representation of the domain sequence and the method to find out the PCE sequence also should be specified. Since this is also true for the p2p computation, maybe it is better to have a separate document to clearly specify the representation of domain sequence and relationship between the domain sequence and PCE sequences.

 

3)                        SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree): 
 
One way we can address this issue is that the transit PCE in the core-tree computation can decide the number of paths sent upstream based on the configuration and also based on if it is a shortest path tree or not. When it is SPT, the number of the paths send upstream will be 1.

 

Quintin

 

 

From: Dhruv Dhody [mailto:dhruvd@huawei.com

]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:19 PM
To: qzhao@huawei.com
Subject: comments for draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07

 

Quintin,

 

I have following comments on the “draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07”, any comments on this are welcome from all.

 

1) Definition of Core-Tree:

Core-Tree should be a P2MP tree with Root as the source node, leaves as the entry boundary nodes of leaf domain. There is no need to include domain nodes or inter-AS TE links or transit boundary nodes in its definition.  What I mean is once phase 1 is completed and PCE(1) has received all the VSPT for all the entry boundary node of leaf domain, its objective is to find an optimal tree meeting the OF, there is no need to specifically suggest what should be the transit node and what should be the branch node while computing the Core-Tree.

If confidentiality is a concern, path-key mechanism shall be applied in those domains but the core-tree definition is not impacted.

To summarize the issue here is the clear definition of domain-tree, core-tree and final P2MP tree.

Domain-Tree: Should consist of  domain-sequence in form of a tree and has no information about BNs and inter-AS TE links.

Core-Tree:   A Core Tree is defined as a tree which satisfies the following conditions:

   o  The root of the core tree is the ingress LSR in the root domain;

   o  The leaves of the core tree are the entry nodes in the leaf domains;

   o  The transit and branch nodes of the core tree MAY be from the entry and exit nodes from the transit and branch domains. They can also be nodes within the domains.

Final Tree: A set of LSRs and TE links that comprise the path of a P2MP TE LSP from its ingress LSR to all of its egress LSRs.

 

2) Domain-Seq V/s PCE-Seq

RFC 5441 [BRPC] method uses IRO and sub-objects to represent domain-sequence. In P2MP we should continue to use the similar approach.

This concept of PCE-Sequence, where a sequence of PCE based on the domain sequence should be decided and attached in the PCReq at the very beginning of path computation. It is much simpler and advantageous to carry only domain-sequence rather than PCE-Sequence.

Advantages

a) All PCE must be aware of all other PCEs in all domain for PCE-Sequence. There is no clear method for this. In domain-sequence PCE should be aware of the domains and not all the PCEs serving the domain. PCE needs to be aware of the neighboring PCEs as done by discovery protocols.

b) There maybe multiple PCE in a domain, the selection of PCE shouldn’t be made at the PCC/PCE(1). This decision is made only at the neighboring PCE which is completely aware of states of PCE via notification messages.

c) Domain sequence would be compatible to P2P inter-domain BRPC method as described in RFC 5441.

There is no need for PCE-Sequence and it doesn’t give any benefits over Domain Seq.  

 

3) SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree)

In case of Shortest Path Tree, VSPT is enough for making the core-tree and downstream PCE can continue to do pruning as done in P2P BRPC procedure. We need to avoid pruning only in case of SPT and other objective function. Also the core-tree procedure will guarantee to give optimal path with SPT if core-tree is optimal and grafting is done. The same cannot be guaranteed for MCT.

This is just for your information, so that an informed decision can be taken based on this.

 

Regards,

Dhruv

 

Dhruv Dhody

Senior Technical Leader

Huawei-Santa Clara, CA

Work: (408) 330 4940

Cell: (408) 667 8127

This email and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained here in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!

 

--Boundary_(ID_jrFl/nOaLbwnVCFTc+CqgQ)-- From ramon.casellas@cttc.es Fri Feb 4 00:47:26 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7049E3A6893 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:47:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qjpJ-1LPsJhz for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:47:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scorpius.cttc.es (scorpius.cttc.es [84.88.62.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6603A68A8 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:47:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from castor (postfix@castor.cttc.es [84.88.62.196]) by Scorpius.cttc.es (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p148oSB9013078 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:50:33 +0100 Received: from [84.88.61.50] (pcrcasellas.cttc.es [84.88.61.50]) by castor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F112FC27F for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:50:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D4BBE41.4030402@cttc.es> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:52:17 +0100 From: Ramon Casellas Organization: CTTC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110123 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pce@ietf.org References: <002d01cbc3f4$953a8cf0$9822c10a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <002d01cbc3f4$953a8cf0$9822c10a@china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020407020707040700070805" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (castor); Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:50:33 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 84.88.62.197 Subject: Re: [Pce] comments for draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 08:47:26 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020407020707040700070805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dhruv, Quintin, all See inline On 03/02/2011 23:49, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > > > *From:*Dhruv Dhody [mailto:dhruvd@huawei.com > > Quintin, > > 1) Definition of Core-Tree: > > o The transit and branch nodes of the core tree MAY be from the > entry and exit nodes from the transit and branch domains. They can > also be nodes within the domains. > I'm not sure I follow here: what's the use case for nodes within the domains being part of the core tree? probably I missed something. > 2) Domain-Seq V/s PCE-Seq > > RFC 5441 [BRPC] method uses IRO and sub-objects to represent > domain-sequence. In P2MP we should continue to use the similar approach. > > Good point. I believe as you mention that this has several advantages: it's easier to deduce/obtain domain sequences and domain trees and later (even if locally) map domains to one or more PCEs. I still have doubts regarding the fact that, unless I am mistaken, the source PCE is assumed to have a PCEP adjacency to the other PCEs, (not necessarily from the adjacent domains) in order to expand the trees, right? (otherwise some kind of message routing would be needed?) One nitpick: as far as I know, we lack an ERO subobject to convey IGP-area (there is an AS). We found this issue when implementing BRPC with the IRO as you mention, so we defaulted to online mapping of the "next PCE" based on the final destination and reachability info. The lack of an "IGP area" sub-object is also present in related work such as H-PCE. Would this be needed at the CCAMP level? > 3) SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree) > > In case of Shortest Path Tree, VSPT is enough for making the core-tree > and downstream PCE can continue to do pruning as done in P2P BRPC > procedure. We need to avoid pruning only in case of SPT and other > objective function. Also the core-tree procedure will guarantee to > give optimal path with SPT if core-tree is optimal and grafting is > done. The same cannot be guaranteed for MCT. > > This is just for your information, so that an informed decision can be > taken based on this. > This is worth noting in a next version of the draft. As Olefumi pointed out in a previous mail, this step is quite critical -- we added a paragraph discussing the potentially huge solution space -- and any procedures/heuristics that mitigate this controversial step are welcome. Best regards, R. --------------020407020707040700070805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dhruv, Quintin, all

See inline


On 03/02/2011 23:49, Dhruv Dhody wrote:

 

 

Quintin,

 

 

1) Definition of Core-Tree:

   o  The transit and branch nodes of the core tree MAY be from the entry and exit nodes from the transit and branch domains. They can also be nodes within the domains.


I'm not sure I follow here: what's the use case for nodes within the domains being part of the core tree? probably I missed something.


 

2) Domain-Seq V/s PCE-Seq

RFC 5441 [BRPC] method uses IRO and sub-objects to represent domain-sequence. In P2MP we should continue to use the similar approach.



Good point.

I believe as you mention that this has several advantages: it's easier to deduce/obtain domain sequences and domain trees and later (even if locally) map domains to one or more PCEs.

I still have doubts regarding the fact that, unless I am mistaken, the source PCE is assumed to have a PCEP adjacency to the other PCEs, (not necessarily from the adjacent domains) in order to expand the trees, right? (otherwise some kind of message routing would be needed?)

One nitpick: as far as I know, we lack an ERO subobject to convey IGP-area (there is an AS). We found this issue when implementing BRPC with the IRO as you mention, so we defaulted to online mapping of the "next PCE" based on the final destination and reachability info. The lack of an "IGP area" sub-object is also present in related work such as H-PCE. Would this be needed at the CCAMP level?



 

3) SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree)

In case of Shortest Path Tree, VSPT is enough for making the core-tree and downstream PCE can continue to do pruning as done in P2P BRPC procedure. We need to avoid pruning only in case of SPT and other objective function. Also the core-tree procedure will guarantee to give optimal path with SPT if core-tree is optimal and grafting is done. The same cannot be guaranteed for MCT.

This is just for your information, so that an informed decision can be taken based on this.

 

This is worth noting in a next version of the draft. As Olefumi pointed out in a previous mail, this step is quite critical -- we added a paragraph discussing the potentially huge solution space -- and any procedures/heuristics that mitigate this controversial step are welcome.


Best regards,
R.

--------------020407020707040700070805-- From dhruvd@huawei.com Fri Feb 4 13:29:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 579033A69D4 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:29:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4XNIotoKce35 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 243443A67C1 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LG4009Z03TZS7@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2011 05:32:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LG400EOB3TYCZ@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2011 05:32:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from Htiplqw12q ([10.193.34.152]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LG400FBF3TS5Z@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2011 05:32:22 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:32:16 -0800 From: Dhruv Dhody In-reply-to: <4D4BBE41.4030402@cttc.es> To: 'Ramon Casellas' , pce@ietf.org Message-id: <005201cbc4b2$ffe59590$9822c10a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Iq+rBBiurWCMlfQIGXuYTA)" Thread-index: AcvESLViagmr8wCsTve3bsx7YNOnfgAaHG0g Subject: Re: [Pce] comments fordraft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:29:16 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Iq+rBBiurWCMlfQIGXuYTA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Ramon, Thanks for your comments, please find my reply inline. Regards, Dhruv Dhruv Dhody Senior Technical Leader Futurewei-Santa Clara, CA Work: (408) 330 4940 Cell: (408) 667 8127 This email and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained here in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! _____ From: pce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ramon Casellas Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:52 AM To: pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] comments fordraft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07 Dhruv, Quintin, all See inline On 03/02/2011 23:49, Dhruv Dhody wrote: From: Dhruv Dhody [mailto:dhruvd@huawei.com Quintin, 1) Definition of Core-Tree: o The transit and branch nodes of the core tree MAY be from the entry and exit nodes from the transit and branch domains. They can also be nodes within the domains. I'm not sure I follow here: what's the use case for nodes within the domains being part of the core tree? probably I missed something. Dhruv: Core-tree should have the nodes inside the domains because an optimal core-tree [based on the OF] can only be computed when we analyze the nodes within the domains as well. The core-tree thus cannot be an abstract tree with just the boundary nodes and domains; we must compute and select the internal nodes and links as well. To support confidentiality the same nodes and links can be hidden via a path-key but they must be computed and be a part of core-tree. My comment is basically that an optimal core-tree cannot be abstract; it must be absolute tree with all internal nodes and links finalized. 2) Domain-Seq V/s PCE-Seq RFC 5441 [BRPC] method uses IRO and sub-objects to represent domain-sequence. In P2MP we should continue to use the similar approach. Good point. I believe as you mention that this has several advantages: it's easier to deduce/obtain domain sequences and domain trees and later (even if locally) map domains to one or more PCEs. I still have doubts regarding the fact that, unless I am mistaken, the source PCE is assumed to have a PCEP adjacency to the other PCEs, (not necessarily from the adjacent domains) in order to expand the trees, right? (otherwise some kind of message routing would be needed?) One nitpick: as far as I know, we lack an ERO subobject to convey IGP-area (there is an AS). We found this issue when implementing BRPC with the IRO as you mention, so we defaulted to online mapping of the "next PCE" based on the final destination and reachability info. The lack of an "IGP area" sub-object is also present in related work such as H-PCE. Would this be needed at the CCAMP level? Dhruv: I think we must not assume that all PCE have a PCEP session to all the other PCEs. This would be a big limitation and the system administrator must do considerable configurations esp in case of inter-AS where IGP discovery cannot be used. Some message routing similar to BRPC should be implemented. The path taken by path-request and reply is same as each domain-seq in the domain-tree. This is not very hard to implement. In the domain-seq draft [which I am preparing], I have added IANA considerations to introduce sub-object for IGP Areas. I think it's very much needed. 3) SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree) In case of Shortest Path Tree, VSPT is enough for making the core-tree and downstream PCE can continue to do pruning as done in P2P BRPC procedure. We need to avoid pruning only in case of SPT and other objective function. Also the core-tree procedure will guarantee to give optimal path with SPT if core-tree is optimal and grafting is done. The same cannot be guaranteed for MCT. This is just for your information, so that an informed decision can be taken based on this. This is worth noting in a next version of the draft. As Olefumi pointed out in a previous mail, this step is quite critical -- we added a paragraph discussing the potentially huge solution space -- and any procedures/heuristics that mitigate this controversial step are welcome. Dhruv: Okay! Best regards, R. --Boundary_(ID_Iq+rBBiurWCMlfQIGXuYTA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dear Ramon,

 

Thanks for your comments, please find my reply inline.

 

Regards,

Dhruv

 

Dhruv Dhody

Senior Technical Leader

Futurewei-Santa Clara, CA

Work: (408) 330 4940

Cell: (408) 667 8127

This email and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained here in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!

From: pce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ramon Casellas
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:52 AM
To: pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] comments fordraft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07

 

Dhruv, Quintin, all

See inline


On 03/02/2011 23:49, Dhruv Dhody wrote:

 

 

From: Dhruv Dhody [mailto:dhruvd@huawei.com

 

Quintin,

 

 

1) Definition of Core-Tree:

   o  The transit and branch nodes of the core tree MAY be from the entry and exit nodes from the transit and branch domains. They can also be nodes within the domains.


I'm not sure I follow here: what's the use case for nodes within the domains being part of the core tree? probably I missed something.

Dhruv: Core-tree should have the nodes inside the domains because an optimal core-tree [based on the OF] can only be computed when we analyze the nodes within the domains as well. The core-tree thus cannot be an abstract tree with just the boundary nodes and domains; we must compute and select the internal nodes and links as well. To support confidentiality the same nodes and links can be hidden via a path-key but they must be computed and be a part of core-tree. My comment is basically that an optimal core-tree cannot be abstract; it must be absolute tree with all internal nodes and links finalized.   

 

2) Domain-Seq V/s PCE-Seq

RFC 5441 [BRPC] method uses IRO and sub-objects to represent domain-sequence. In P2MP we should continue to use the similar approach.

 


Good point.

I believe as you mention that this has several advantages: it's easier to deduce/obtain domain sequences and domain trees and later (even if locally) map domains to one or more PCEs.

I still have doubts regarding the fact that, unless I am mistaken, the source PCE is assumed to have a PCEP adjacency to the other PCEs, (not necessarily from the adjacent domains) in order to expand the trees, right? (otherwise some kind of message routing would be needed?)

One nitpick: as far as I know, we lack an ERO subobject to convey IGP-area (there is an AS). We found this issue when implementing BRPC with the IRO as you mention, so we defaulted to online mapping of the "next PCE" based on the final destination and reachability info. The lack of an "IGP area" sub-object is also present in related work such as H-PCE. Would this be needed at the CCAMP level?

Dhruv: I think we must not assume that all PCE have a PCEP session to all the other PCEs. This would be a big limitation and the system administrator must do considerable configurations esp in case of inter-AS where IGP discovery cannot be used. Some message routing similar to BRPC should be implemented. The path taken by path-request and reply is same as each domain-seq in the domain-tree. This is not very hard to implement.

In the domain-seq draft [which I am preparing], I have added IANA considerations to introduce sub-object for IGP Areas. I think it’s very much needed.   


 

3) SPT (shortest path tree) v/s MCT (minimum cost tree)

In case of Shortest Path Tree, VSPT is enough for making the core-tree and downstream PCE can continue to do pruning as done in P2P BRPC procedure. We need to avoid pruning only in case of SPT and other objective function. Also the core-tree procedure will guarantee to give optimal path with SPT if core-tree is optimal and grafting is done. The same cannot be guaranteed for MCT.

This is just for your information, so that an informed decision can be taken based on this.

 

This is worth noting in a next version of the draft. As Olefumi pointed out in a previous mail, this step is quite critical -- we added a paragraph discussing the potentially huge solution space -- and any procedures/heuristics that mitigate this controversial step are welcome.

 

Dhruv: Okay!




Best regards,
R.

--Boundary_(ID_Iq+rBBiurWCMlfQIGXuYTA)-- From jpv@cisco.com Sun Feb 6 11:18:40 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4673A69E0 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2011 11:18:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3lESlvDtMPgc for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2011 11:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C1B3A69E7 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2011 11:18:37 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: ams-iport-1.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlMEAHuCTk2Q/khMgWdsb2JhbAClMBUBARYiJIgvl0+aE4Mdgj0Ei2eDLgaJHA Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Feb 2011 19:18:39 +0000 Received: from xbh-ams-201.cisco.com (xbh-ams-201.cisco.com [144.254.75.7]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p16JId1l012543 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2011 19:18:39 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-201.cisco.com ([144.254.231.95]) by xbh-ams-201.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 6 Feb 2011 20:18:39 +0100 Received: from [10.10.10.2] ([10.55.81.168]) by xfe-ams-201.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 6 Feb 2011 20:18:38 +0100 From: JP Vasseur Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-45-885138024 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 20:18:37 +0100 References: To: pce@ietf.org Message-Id: <3423DF0A-26DD-44FF-A9CB-FDC05CE80BEF@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2011 19:18:38.0123 (UTC) FILETIME=[A81B7FB0:01CBC632] Subject: [Pce] Fwd: Pce post from rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org requires approval X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 19:18:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail-45-885138024 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Begin forwarded message: > From: > Date: February 5, 2011 10:54:38 PM GMT+01:00 > To: > Subject: Pce post from rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org requires approval >=20 > As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the > following mailing list posting: >=20 > List: Pce@ietf.org > From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5521 (2705) > Reason: Too many recipients to the message >=20 > At your convenience, visit: >=20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/admindb/pce > =20 > to approve or deny the request. >=20 >=20 > From: "RFC Errata System" > Date: February 5, 2011 10:54:32 PM GMT+01:00 > To: , , = , , , = , > Cc: , , = > Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5521 (2705) >=20 >=20 >=20 > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC5521, > "Extensions to the Path Computation Element Communication Protocol = (PCEP) for Route Exclusions". >=20 > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D5521&eid=3D2705 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Ramon Casellas >=20 > Section: 2.1.1 >=20 > Original Text > ------------- > Unnumbered Interface ID Subobject >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |X| Type =3D 3 | Length | Reserved | Attribute | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | TE Router ID | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Interface ID | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > The TE Router ID and Interface ID fields are as defined in = [RFC3477]. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Oki, et al. Standards Track [Page = 7] >=20 > RFC 5521 Extensions to PCEP for Route Exclusions April = 2009 >=20 >=20 > Autonomous System Number Subobject >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |X| Type =3D 4 | Length | 2-Octet AS Number | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > Note that as in other PCEP objects [RFC5440] and RSVP-TE objects > [RFC3209], no support for 4-octet Autonomous System (AS) Numbers is > provided. It is anticipated that, as 4-octet AS Numbers become = more > common, both PCEP and RSVP-TE will be updated in a consistent way = to > add this support. >=20 > SRLG Subobject >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |X| Type =3D 5 | Length | SRLG Id (4 bytes) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | SRLG Id (continued) | Reserved | Attribute | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > The Attribute SHOULD be set to two (2) and SHOULD be ignored on > receipt. >=20 > Corrected Text > -------------- > Unnumbered Interface ID Subobject >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |X| Type =3D 4 | Length | Reserved | Attribute | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | TE Router ID | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Interface ID | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > The TE Router ID and Interface ID fields are as defined in = [RFC3477]. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Oki, et al. Standards Track [Page = 7] >=20 > RFC 5521 Extensions to PCEP for Route Exclusions April = 2009 >=20 >=20 > Autonomous System Number Subobject >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |X| Type =3D 32 | Length | 2-Octet AS Number | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > Note that as in other PCEP objects [RFC5440] and RSVP-TE objects > [RFC3209], no support for 4-octet Autonomous System (AS) Numbers is > provided. It is anticipated that, as 4-octet AS Numbers become = more > common, both PCEP and RSVP-TE will be updated in a consistent way = to > add this support. >=20 > SRLG Subobject >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |X| Type =3D 34 | Length | SRLG Id (4 bytes) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | SRLG Id (continued) | Reserved | Attribute | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > The Attribute SHOULD be set to two (2) and SHOULD be ignored on > receipt. >=20 > Notes > ----- > Completes the existing errata, providing correct values for XRO = sub-object types in object formats. The new values must be in line with = RSVP-TE / CCAMP RFC4874 and = http://www.iana.org/assignments/pcep/pcep.xml#xro-flag-field >=20 > Instructions: > ------------- > This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. >=20 > -------------------------------------- > RFC5521 (draft-ietf-pce-pcep-xro-06) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Extensions to the Path Computation Element = Communication Protocol (PCEP) for Route Exclusions > Publication Date : April 2009 > Author(s) : E. Oki, T. Takeda, A. Farrel > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Path Computation Element > Area : Routing > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: > Date: February 5, 2011 10:55:30 PM GMT+01:00 > Subject: confirm 9dbb9e6578241b532c303d8f9a8360e79be182ca >=20 >=20 > If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact, > Mailman will discard the held message. Do this if the message is > spam. If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header > with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting > to the list. The Approved: header can also appear in the first line > of the body of the reply. >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-45-885138024 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
From: <pce-owner@ietf.org>
Date: February 5, 2011 = 10:54:38 PM GMT+01:00
To: <pce-owner@ietf.org>
Subject: Pce post from rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org = requires approval

As list = administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

    List:    Pce@ietf.org
    From:    rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org     Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5521 = (2705)
    Reason:  Too many recipients to the message

At your convenience, visit:

    https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/admindb/pce
       
to approve or deny the request.


From: = "RFC Errata System" <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>= ;
Date: February 5, 2011 10:54:32 PM = GMT+01:00
Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5521 = (2705)



The following errata report has been submitted = for RFC5521,
"Extensions to the Path Computation Element Communication Protocol = (PCEP) for Route Exclusions".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D5521&eid=3D2705=

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Ramon Casellas <ramon.casellas@cttc.es>

Section: 2.1.1

Original Text
-------------
 Unnumbered Interface ID Subobject

    = 0            &= nbsp;      = 1            &= nbsp;      = 2            &= nbsp;      3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |X|  Type =3D 3   |     = Length    |    Reserved   = |  Attribute    |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   = |            &= nbsp;           TE = Router = ID            =             &n= bsp;  |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   = |            &= nbsp;           = Interface = ID            =             &n= bsp;  |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   The TE Router ID and Interface ID fields are as defined in = [RFC3477].






Oki, et = al.            = ;     Standards = Track           &nb= sp;         [Page 7]

RFC 5521        Extensions to PCEP = for Route Exclusions       April 2009


   Autonomous System Number Subobject

    = 0            &= nbsp;      = 1            &= nbsp;      = 2            &= nbsp;      3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |X|  Type =3D 4   |     = Length    |      2-Octet AS = Number        |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   Note that as in other PCEP objects [RFC5440] and RSVP-TE = objects
   [RFC3209], no support for 4-octet Autonomous System (AS) = Numbers is
   provided.  It is anticipated that, as 4-octet AS = Numbers become more
   common, both PCEP and RSVP-TE will be updated in a = consistent way to
   add this support.

   SRLG Subobject

    = 0            &= nbsp;      = 1            &= nbsp;      = 2            &= nbsp;      3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |X|  Type =3D 5   |     = Length    |       SRLG Id = (4 bytes)       |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |      SRLG Id = (continued)      |    = Reserved   |  Attribute    |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   The Attribute SHOULD be set to two (2) and SHOULD be = ignored on
   receipt.

Corrected Text
--------------
 Unnumbered Interface ID Subobject

    = 0            &= nbsp;      = 1            &= nbsp;      = 2            &= nbsp;      3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |X|  Type =3D 4   |     = Length    |    Reserved   = |  Attribute    |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   = |            &= nbsp;           TE = Router = ID            =             &n= bsp;  |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   = |            &= nbsp;           = Interface = ID            =             &n= bsp;  |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   The TE Router ID and Interface ID fields are as defined in = [RFC3477].






Oki, et = al.            = ;     Standards = Track           &nb= sp;         [Page 7]

RFC 5521        Extensions to PCEP = for Route Exclusions       April 2009


   Autonomous System Number Subobject

    = 0            &= nbsp;      = 1            &= nbsp;      = 2            &= nbsp;      3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |X|  Type =3D 32  |     = Length    |      2-Octet AS = Number        |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   Note that as in other PCEP objects [RFC5440] and RSVP-TE = objects
   [RFC3209], no support for 4-octet Autonomous System (AS) = Numbers is
   provided.  It is anticipated that, as 4-octet AS = Numbers become more
   common, both PCEP and RSVP-TE will be updated in a = consistent way to
   add this support.

   SRLG Subobject

    = 0            &= nbsp;      = 1            &= nbsp;      = 2            &= nbsp;      3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |X|  Type =3D 34  |     = Length    |       SRLG Id = (4 bytes)       |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |      SRLG Id = (continued)      |    = Reserved   |  Attribute    |
   = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   The Attribute SHOULD be set to two (2) and SHOULD be = ignored on
   receipt.

Notes
-----
Completes the existing errata, providing correct values for XRO = sub-object types in object formats. The new values must be in line with = RSVP-TE / CCAMP RFC4874 and  http= ://www.iana.org/assignments/pcep/pcep.xml#xro-flag-field

Instructions:
-------------
This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.

--------------------------------------
RFC5521 (draft-ietf-pce-pcep-xro-06)
--------------------------------------
= Title           &nb= sp;   : Extensions to the Path Computation Element = Communication Protocol (PCEP) for Route Exclusions
Publication Date    : April 2009
Author(s)           : = E. Oki, T. Takeda, A. Farrel
= Category           = : PROPOSED STANDARD
= Source           &n= bsp;  : Path Computation Element
= Area           &nbs= p;    : Routing
= Stream           &n= bsp;  : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG




Date: = February 5, 2011 10:55:30 PM = GMT+01:00
Subject: confirm = 9dbb9e6578241b532c303d8f9a8360e79be182ca


If you = reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message = is
spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: = header
with the list password in it, the message will be approved for = posting
to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first = line
of the body of the reply.




= --Apple-Mail-45-885138024-- From takeda.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp Wed Feb 9 07:02:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A483A69A8; Wed, 9 Feb 2011 07:02:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oNDqTJqwJklB; Wed, 9 Feb 2011 07:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1425E3A6767; Wed, 9 Feb 2011 07:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mfs5.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs5.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.144]) by tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p19F2m2H028639; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:02:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs5.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs5.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A486D3D; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:02:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from imail2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imail2-mgr.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.144.42]) by mfs5.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD2E6D39; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:02:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (webmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.130]) by imail2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id p19F2mPp015543; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:02:48 +0900 Message-Id: <201102091502.p19F2mPp015543@imail2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp> To: ccamp@ietf.org, pce@ietf.org, mpls@ietf.org, mpls-tp@ietf.org From: Tomonori TAKEDA Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:02:48 +0900 X-Mailer: WebMail V3.7 PL3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Cc: iPOP2011-tpc-sec@pilab.jp Subject: [Pce] iPOP2011 Call for Presentation X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 15:02:41 -0000 (Apologies if you received multiple copies of this message.) Dear CCAMP, PCE, MPLS and MPLS-TP subscribers, iPOP2011 Call for Presentation is now open as follows. The deadline for submitting presentation proposal is February 25th. Best Regards, Tomonori Takeda ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Call for Presentation 7th International Conference on IP + Optical Network (iPOP 2011) June 2-3, 2010 NEC Tamagawa Plant, Kanagawa, Japan http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2011/ The conference is intended to share among the industry and the academia, the knowledge, new findings, and experience on the state-of-the art of IP and optical networking technologies. It features technical sessions and planned exhibitions. The opportunity to participate is open to all. Important Dates: Submission deadline of one-page abstract: February 25, 2010 Notification of acceptance: April 4, 2010 Submission deadline of final presentation slides: April 22, 2010 The Technical Program Committee for iPOP 2010 is soliciting presentation proposals for this conference. Protocol design, experiment, theory, implementation, and operational experiences are solicited. The topics of the conference will include but not limited to the following: * GMPLS/ASON technologies * GMPLS Network management, OA&M * Multi-layer network (MLN) / Multi-region network (MRN) * Path Computation Element (PCE), Traffic engineering * Inter-area/Inter-AS network * L1VPN, Bandwidth on Demand, and Photonic Grid * Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON), Routing wavelength assignment, Impairment management * GMPLS-controlled Ethernet Label Switching (GELS) and related Ethernet transport technologies * Carrier Ethernet and MPLS-TP * Photonic Network for NxGN and NwGN * Application with high-bandwidth demand * Testbed, field trial If you wish to submit a topic for consideration, please send an Extended Abstracts of a 400 words and a maximum of 1 page, including figures and diagrams, speaker$B!G(Bs name, affiliation, and contact information to the Technical Program Committee at ipop2011-CFP@pilab.jp. Please see http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2011/ for more details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From ramon.casellas@cttc.es Tue Feb 15 00:53:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159843A6E49 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:53:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hX7uBWakUVUF for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scorpius.cttc.es (scorpius.cttc.es [84.88.62.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A1F3A6ABB for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from castor (postfix@castor.cttc.es [84.88.62.196]) by Scorpius.cttc.es (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p1F8rFuY016285; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:53:20 +0100 Received: from [84.88.61.50] (pcrcasellas.cttc.es [84.88.61.50]) by castor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76F592FC281; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:53:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D5A3F78.9050101@cttc.es> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:55:20 +0100 From: Ramon Casellas Organization: CTTC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pce@ietf.org, "strongest-wp4@ac.upc.edu" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (castor); Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:53:20 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 84.88.62.197 Subject: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 08:53:12 -0000 Dear PCErs, During some interoperability tests, we found an issue with the PCEP protocol and RFC5440 which manifests when using specific (although common) operating systems and we would appreciate your feedback to evaluate our options. RFC5440 states (section 5) that PCEP operates over TCP using a registered TCP port (4189) and all PCEP messages MUST be sent using the registered TCP port for the source and destination TCP port. Moreover, only one active connection between to given hosts/peers may be active at a time. Although this is conceptually valid, I fail to see the reasoning behind the first restriction, and I see the second one as a direct consequence of the first. The use case is as follows: assume a PCE host, with a PCEid address (in line with the "NodeID" "RouterID", or Loopback address, lo:0, defined as an IP address such that it is valid provided there is some connectivity, etc.) The PCE creates a socket which is listening for TCP/PCEP connections ("binding" to either the INADDR_ANY, 0.0.0.0 or restrict it to such PCEid address, but in any case to the port 4189). At the same time it should also be able to have/initiate persistent TCP/PCEP connections to other peers (say, as a client), ideally keeping the same loopback address (NodeID) as the source IP address, while forcing the source port to what the RFC requires. The main problem is that using that single PCEid address, it is not possible, or at least not possible in a portable way, to "bind" or associate several sockets to the same (local address, local port) pair. Of course,it should be theoretically possible, given that TCP connections would still be different considering the tuple (srcaddr, 4189, dstaddr, 4189) but in practice it isn't: After the first "listening" socket, the PCE would, for each persistent peer, (i) create a socket SOCK_STREAM, (ii) bind it to nodeid/4189 and (iii) connect to remote peer/4189. The first bind system call may fail depending on how the server is listening for connections (even worse, it some systems the bind system call may hijack the listening socket) or the second peer bind would fail since it would try to bind to the same local address/port. For example, the GNU/Linux man page for bind is clear: ip(7) "Only one IP socket may be bound to any given local (address, port) pair". In technical terms, PCEP requires duplicate bindings at the socket level. Some systems may implement SO_REUSEPORT (1) socket option which could allow that, although it main use is to bind multicast addresses, or enable some sort of load sharing amongst TCP listeners in several threads. Unfortunately this is not implemented for example in GNU/Linux, although some non-official patches have been proposed (2). It is not clear whether it will be integrated or not. Our workarounds seem to be either: allow clients to bind to port 0 (ephemeral port) and use such allocated (dynamic) port (which is not compliant with RFC), or set IP aliases so each bind uses a different local address (we may need as many local addresses as peers, and some "mapping" to uniquely identify a PCE). For what is worth, in my humble opinion the standard RFC is too strict requiring that all (client) sockets bind to port 4189 In summary we would appreciate your views on this: a) what's the reasoning to force clients to bind on 4189 rather than say like in http? -- sometimes it is argued that this simplifies management such as firewall rules, etc. but I do not agree -- b) why limit to a single PCEP connection between two peers (other than a direct consequence of a) ), rather than allowing several parallel connections, provided that hosts use a single IP address and thus they can be identified? c) As potential PCE implementers, have you encountered this issue, did you work around it? Are we missing something obvious? Any feedback is appreciated Best regards, Ramon (1) http://wiki.treck.com/Socket_Options (1) http://marc.info/?l=linux-netdev&m=127165882728524&w=2 -- Ramon Casellas, Ph.D. Research Associate - Optical Networking Area -- http://wikiona.cttc.es CTTC - Centre Tecnològic de Telecomunicacions de Catalunya, PMT Ed B4 Av. Carl Friedrich Gauss 7 08860 Castelldefels (Barcelona) - Spain Tel.: +34 93 645 29 16 -- Fax. +34 93 645 29 01 From Christian.Kaas-Petersen@tieto.com Tue Feb 15 01:49:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531DB3A6C7A for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:49:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Bttz0q6rASZ for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ebb05.tieto.com (ebb05.tieto.com [131.207.168.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D59B3A6C77 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:48:58 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 83cfa824-b7b72ae000000bb2-69-4d5a4c22c68c Received: from FIVLA-EXHUB02.eu.tieto.com ( [131.207.136.42]) by ebb05.tieto.com (SMTP Mailer) with SMTP id 88.C4.02994.22C4A5D4; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:49:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from EXMB02.eu.tieto.com ([169.254.1.71]) by FIVLA-EXHUB02.eu.tieto.com ([131.207.136.42]) with mapi; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:49:22 +0200 From: To: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:49:21 +0200 Thread-Topic: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies Thread-Index: AcvM7dhuClWSsUAaSrWyX4P61rOfvwABqYwB Message-ID: References: <4D5A3F78.9050101@cttc.es> In-Reply-To: <4D5A3F78.9050101@cttc.es> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAhdlQCAXZhIe Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:49:00 -0000 Just my input (worth about 2 cents). Although not explicitly stated in RFC 5440, the PCEP protocol has copied a lot of features from BGP (OPEN, KEEPALIVE, and CLOSE messages being the most obvious). BGP uses TCP port 179, but only when=20 listening; the BGP peer taking the initiative to connect to another BGP peer may use any BGP port number. I agree, there is no obvious reason for forcing a PCEP client to use port 4189 as source port. Christian=20 ________________________________________ From: pce-bounces@ietf.org [pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ramon Casell= as [ramon.casellas@cttc.es] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 10:55 AM To: pce@ietf.org; strongest-wp4@ac.upc.edu Subject: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adj= acencies Dear PCErs, During some interoperability tests, we found an issue with the PCEP protocol and RFC5440 which manifests when using specific (although common) operating systems and we would appreciate your feedback to evaluate our options. RFC5440 states (section 5) that PCEP operates over TCP using a registered TCP port (4189) and all PCEP messages MUST be sent using the registered TCP port for the source and destination TCP port. Moreover, only one active connection between to given hosts/peers may be active at a time. Although this is conceptually valid, I fail to see the reasoning behind the first restriction, and I see the second one as a direct consequence of the first. The use case is as follows: assume a PCE host, with a PCEid address (in line with the "NodeID" "RouterID", or Loopback address, lo:0, defined as an IP address such that it is valid provided there is some connectivity, etc.) The PCE creates a socket which is listening for TCP/PCEP connections ("binding" to either the INADDR_ANY, 0.0.0.0 or restrict it to such PCEid address, but in any case to the port 4189). At the same time it should also be able to have/initiate persistent TCP/PCEP connections to other peers (say, as a client), ideally keeping the same loopback address (NodeID) as the source IP address, while forcing the source port to what the RFC requires. The main problem is that using that single PCEid address, it is not possible, or at least not possible in a portable way, to "bind" or associate several sockets to the same (local address, local port) pair. Of course,it should be theoretically possible, given that TCP connections would still be different considering the tuple (srcaddr, 4189, dstaddr, 4189) but in practice it isn't: After the first "listening" socket, the PCE would, for each persistent peer, (i) create a socket SOCK_STREAM, (ii) bind it to nodeid/4189 and (iii) connect to remote peer/4189. The first bind system call may fail depending on how the server is listening for connections (even worse, it some systems the bind system call may hijack the listening socket) or the second peer bind would fail since it would try to bind to the same local address/port. For example, the GNU/Linux man page for bind is clear: ip(7) "Only one IP socket may be bound to any given local (address, port) pair". In technical terms, PCEP requires duplicate bindings at the socket level. Some systems may implement SO_REUSEPORT (1) socket option which could allow that, although it main use is to bind multicast addresses, or enable some sort of load sharing amongst TCP listeners in several threads. Unfortunately this is not implemented for example in GNU/Linux, although some non-official patches have been proposed (2). It is not clear whether it will be integrated or not. Our workarounds seem to be either: allow clients to bind to port 0 (ephemeral port) and use such allocated (dynamic) port (which is not compliant with RFC), or set IP aliases so each bind uses a different local address (we may need as many local addresses as peers, and some "mapping" to uniquely identify a PCE). For what is worth, in my humble opinion the standard RFC is too strict requiring that all (client) sockets bind to port 4189 In summary we would appreciate your views on this: a) what's the reasoning to force clients to bind on 4189 rather than say like in http? -- sometimes it is argued that this simplifies management such as firewall rules, etc. but I do not agree -- b) why limit to a single PCEP connection between two peers (other than a direct consequence of a) ), rather than allowing several parallel connections, provided that hosts use a single IP address and thus they can be identified? c) As potential PCE implementers, have you encountered this issue, did you work around it? Are we missing something obvious? Any feedback is appreciated Best regards, Ramon (1) http://wiki.treck.com/Socket_Options (1) http://marc.info/?l=3Dlinux-netdev&m=3D127165882728524&w=3D2 -- Ramon Casellas, Ph.D. Research Associate - Optical Networking Area -- http://wikiona.cttc.es CTTC - Centre Tecnol=F2gic de Telecomunicacions de Catalunya, PMT Ed B4 Av. Carl Friedrich Gauss 7 08860 Castelldefels (Barcelona) - Spain Tel.: +34 93 645 29 16 -- Fax. +34 93 645 29 01 _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com Tue Feb 15 02:06:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F07B3A6E7B for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 02:06:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fk0ixSZYOTdM for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 02:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com [217.108.152.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58AB33A6E77 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 02:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id D0262FC4007 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:07:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.47]) by r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72548FC400C for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:07:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.192.128.44]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:06:34 +0100 Received: from [10.193.75.92] ([10.193.75.92]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:06:34 +0100 Message-ID: <4D5A502A.3090307@orange-ftgroup.com> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:06:34 +0100 From: Julien Meuric Organization: France Telecom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101208 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pce@ietf.org References: <4D5A3F78.9050101@cttc.es> In-Reply-To: <4D5A3F78.9050101@cttc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2011 10:06:34.0416 (UTC) FILETIME=[068EAB00:01CBCCF8] Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:06:41 -0000 Hi Ramon. Thank you for sharing your implementation experience. This reminds me of an old thread on this list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg02096.html That really looks like RFC 5440 is facing a lack in the implementation of the Linux OS. If compliance to the RFC requires to implement the patch you mention, as immediate solution I suggest to do so and to post any bug report/implementation feedback that may advocate including it for further system releases. To all *implementers* of PCEP, a feedback on your own experience, associated to the OS you use, would be very appreciated. Experience over BSD and any Unix system would be much valuable. You may contact the chairs privately if you like. Thanks, Julien Le 15/02/2011 09:55, Ramon Casellas a écrit : > Dear PCErs, > > During some interoperability tests, we found an issue with the PCEP > protocol and RFC5440 which manifests when using specific (although > common) operating systems and we would appreciate your feedback to > evaluate our options. > > RFC5440 states (section 5) that PCEP operates over TCP using a > registered TCP port (4189) and all PCEP messages MUST be sent using > the registered TCP port for the source and destination TCP port. > Moreover, only one active connection between to given hosts/peers may > be active at a time. > Although this is conceptually valid, I fail to see the reasoning > behind the first restriction, and I see the second one as a direct > consequence of the first. > > The use case is as follows: assume a PCE host, with a PCEid address > (in line with the "NodeID" "RouterID", or Loopback address, lo:0, > defined as an IP address such that it is valid provided there is some > connectivity, etc.) > The PCE creates a socket which is listening for TCP/PCEP connections > ("binding" to either the INADDR_ANY, 0.0.0.0 or restrict it to such > PCEid address, but in any case to the port 4189). At the same time it > should also be able to have/initiate persistent TCP/PCEP connections > to other peers (say, as a client), ideally keeping the same loopback > address (NodeID) as the source IP address, while forcing the source > port to what the RFC requires. > > The main problem is that using that single PCEid address, it is not > possible, or at least not possible in a portable way, to "bind" or > associate several sockets to the same (local address, local port) > pair. Of course,it should be theoretically possible, given that TCP > connections would still be different considering the tuple (srcaddr, > 4189, dstaddr, 4189) but in practice it isn't: > > After the first "listening" socket, the PCE would, for each persistent > peer, > (i) create a socket SOCK_STREAM, > (ii) bind it to nodeid/4189 and > (iii) connect to remote peer/4189. > > The first bind system call may fail depending on how the server is > listening for connections (even worse, it some systems the bind system > call may hijack the listening socket) or the second peer bind would > fail since it would try to bind to the same local address/port. For > example, the GNU/Linux man page for bind is clear: ip(7) "Only one IP > socket may be bound to any given local (address, port) pair". In > technical terms, PCEP requires duplicate bindings at the socket level. > Some systems may implement SO_REUSEPORT (1) socket option which could > allow that, although it main use is to bind multicast addresses, or > enable some sort of load sharing amongst TCP listeners in several > threads. Unfortunately this is not implemented for example in > GNU/Linux, although some non-official patches have been proposed (2). > It is not clear whether it will be integrated or not. > > Our workarounds seem to be either: allow clients to bind to port 0 > (ephemeral port) and use such allocated (dynamic) port (which is not > compliant with RFC), or set IP aliases so each bind uses a different > local address (we may need as many local addresses as peers, and some > "mapping" to uniquely identify a PCE). > > For what is worth, in my humble opinion the standard RFC is too strict > requiring that all (client) sockets bind to port 4189 > > > In summary we would appreciate your views on this: > > a) what's the reasoning to force clients to bind on 4189 rather than > say like in http? -- sometimes it is argued that this simplifies > management such as firewall rules, etc. but I do not agree -- > > b) why limit to a single PCEP connection between two peers (other than > a direct consequence of a) ), rather than allowing several parallel > connections, provided that hosts use a single IP address and thus they > can be identified? > > c) As potential PCE implementers, have you encountered this issue, did > you work around it? Are we missing something obvious? > > > > Any feedback is appreciated > > Best regards, > > Ramon > > > (1) http://wiki.treck.com/Socket_Options > > (1) http://marc.info/?l=linux-netdev&m=127165882728524&w=2 > > From ramon.casellas@cttc.es Tue Feb 15 02:52:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8AB3A6C8C for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 02:52:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0HQARrKnP30I for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 02:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scorpius.cttc.es (scorpius.cttc.es [84.88.62.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB8C3A6CA1 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 02:52:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from castor (postfix@castor.cttc.es [84.88.62.196]) by Scorpius.cttc.es (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p1FAqrF6016947 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:52:58 +0100 Received: from [84.88.61.50] (pcrcasellas.cttc.es [84.88.61.50]) by castor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA3C2FC248 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:52:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D5A5B82.7000702@cttc.es> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:54:58 +0100 From: Ramon Casellas Organization: CTTC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pce@ietf.org References: <4D5A3F78.9050101@cttc.es> <4D5A502A.3090307@orange-ftgroup.com> In-Reply-To: <4D5A502A.3090307@orange-ftgroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (castor); Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:52:59 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 84.88.62.197 Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:52:49 -0000 Julien, Thank you for your mail. Please see inline On 15/02/2011 11:06, Julien Meuric wrote: > Hi Ramon. > > Thank you for sharing your implementation experience. This reminds me > of an old thread on this list: > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg02096.html > Indeed, the thread applies completely (apologies for duplicating the question). It seems to me that Vishwas end suggestion was to raise an Errata ? > That really looks like RFC 5440 is facing a lack in the implementation > of the Linux OS. If compliance to the RFC requires to implement the > patch you mention, as immediate solution I suggest to do so and to > post any bug report/implementation feedback that may advocate > including it for further system releases. > We will indeed test the patch, although I am not sure about this being the optimal solution, for several reasons: - First, of course, from my point of view, what I would not want is the maintenance burden of patching successive kernel releases in the event that Linux kernel developers do not agree to implement that for the sole purposes of being able to conform to an RFC which, in someone's opinion, may be flawed or excessively restrictive. A partially satisfactory solution would indeed be that SO_REUSEPORT support was added, but that patch may be frowned upon as "not needed". - Second, even if the implementation of SO_REUSEPORT enabled multiple initiators to bind to the same local address/port, other issues could appear in the sense that they would have to coexist with the listener. However, that thread is still not convincing in the sense that "we do this because the RFC says so", still does not show the rationale. Worse, it seems to me that draft versions were indeed less restrictive and that "a posteriori" it was added in order to enforce (maybe without implementers feedback) the one-to-one restriction (which is, in its own, also debatable ;-) To date, all people I have humbly contacted in this matter see this as a non necessary requirement and some implementations end up allowing random ports for clients, in the spirit of most client/server TCP namely BGP, HTTP, etc. Is an errata to RFC5440 potentially relaxing this out of the question? > To all *implementers* of PCEP, a feedback on your own experience, > associated to the OS you use, would be very appreciated. Experience > over BSD and any Unix system would be much valuable. You may contact > the chairs privately if you like. Agreed, other feedback would be more appreciated, before further action :) thanks and best regards Ramon From julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com Wed Feb 16 05:16:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92573A6CC3; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 05:16:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.349 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o1lZufdTfMsi; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 05:16:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com [217.108.152.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52063A6C8B; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 05:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B76BFC4010; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:17:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.46]) by r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71678FC400E; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:17:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.192.128.44]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:17:23 +0100 Received: from [10.193.71.71] ([10.193.71.71]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:17:22 +0100 Message-ID: <4D5BCE62.9060408@orange-ftgroup.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:17:22 +0100 From: Julien Meuric Organization: France Telecom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101208 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pce@ietf.org, ccamp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2011 13:17:22.0602 (UTC) FILETIME=[D89EF8A0:01CBCDDB] Subject: [Pce] Fwd: iPOP2011 Call for Presentation X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:16:58 -0000 FYI --------------------------------------------------------------------- Call for Presentation 7th International Conference on IP + Optical Network (iPOP 2011) June 2-3, 2010 NEC Tamagawa Plant, Kanagawa, Japan http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2011/ The conference is intended to share among the industry and the academia, the knowledge, new findings, and experience on the state-of-the art of IP and optical networking technologies. It features technical sessions and planned exhibitions. The opportunity to participate is open to all. Important Dates: Submission deadline of one-page abstract: February 25, 2010 Notification of acceptance: April 4, 2010 Submission deadline of final presentation slides: April 22, 2010 The Technical Program Committee for iPOP 2010 is soliciting presentation proposals for this conference. Protocol design, experiment, theory, implementation, and operational experiences are solicited. The topics of the conference will include but not limited to the following: * GMPLS/ASON technologies * GMPLS Network management, OA&M * Multi-layer network (MLN) / Multi-region network (MRN) * Path Computation Element (PCE), Traffic engineering * Inter-area/Inter-AS network * L1VPN, Bandwidth on Demand, and Photonic Grid * Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON), Routing wavelength assignment, Impairment management * GMPLS-controlled Ethernet Label Switching (GELS) and related Ethernet transport technologies * Carrier Ethernet and MPLS-TP * Photonic Network for NxGN and NwGN * Application with high-bandwidth demand * Testbed, field trial If you wish to submit a topic for consideration, please send an Extended Abstracts of a 400 words and a maximum of 1 page, including figures and diagrams, speaker$B!G(Bs name, affiliation, and contact information to the Technical Program Committee at ipop2011-CFP@pilab.jp. Please see http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2011/ for more details. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From daniel@olddog.co.uk Wed Feb 16 13:28:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0283A6CBA for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:28:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GI3gCAiuQhdU for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCEB3A6CB0 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p1GLRfIb020105; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:27:41 GMT Received: from Serenity (88-97-23-122.dsl.zen.co.uk [88.97.23.122]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p1GLRdkH020098; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:27:40 GMT From: "Daniel King" To: "'Olufemi Komolafe'" References: <006501cbb9ba$d40e3e70$7c2abb50$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:27:36 -0000 Message-ID: <010501cbce20$5501fca0$ff05f5e0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0106_01CBCE20.5503AA50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQE0sOMCZl1QqNacLvJEph8QehVBjwGM+XSjlSZwqhA= Content-Language: en-gb Cc: pce@ietf.org, msiva@cisco.com, qzhao@huawei.com Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:28:03 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0106_01CBCE20.5503AA50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Femi, Thank you for taking the time to review the document. You make a number of salient points, please see my comments (DK) in line: From: Olufemi Komolafe [mailto:femi@cisco.com] Sent: 02 February 2011 21:37 To: Daniel King Cc: pce@ietf.org; msiva@cisco.com; qzhao@huawei.com Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures Dan, I recently read this draft and found it pretty interesting. However, one main issue that struck me was that the approach in Section 7.2 for the core tree computation seemed very computational expensive. Unless I'm missing something, It seems like the draft is suggesting computing the VSPTs for every leaf BN and then exhaustively working through all the potential combinations of paths to find the optimal combination for the core tree. DK: We are gated by prior requirements for point to multipoint path computation, including Path Computation Element (PCE) Requirements for Point-to-Multipoint MPLS-TE [RFC 5862]. Both for SPF and MCT P2MP path computation. Although you make an excellent point, is it necessary to have the optimal core tree? We should defer to the operators to an authoritative response. My personal opinion is that "good enough" is probably suitable. Having said that, consider that inter-domain point-to-multipoint by a PCE is more than likely a pre-planning activity (with a PCEP request being sent from an NMS or planning platform, versus a real-time (although that is relative) request. So if the PCE is requested to compute a point-to-multipoint path, does it really matter if in order to compute the optimal core tree it takes X minutes, given the fact the service will be signaled/established hours or even days later. On the flipside we need to consider requirements for pre-computed backup paths, as well as real-time recovery. I do plan to send out a separate e-mail shortly on the role of the PCE for protection and recovery, for both P2P and P2MP services. The number of evaluations needed struck me as potentially being very large and made me wonder whether there was a smarter way to try to compute the optimal core tree? Is it possible to try to split up this computation somehow by distributing it judiciously between the PCEs? For example perhaps by each PCE essentially computing the optimal core "sub-tree" from each ingress node for the domain to all the "downstream" BNs that are reached exclusively by it? DK: We did originally look at distributed path computation but discounted it. I'd have to go back through my notes but it may be worth reviewing the situation. Actually giving your background ("An Analysis of Scaling Issues in MPLS-TE Core Networks" [RFC5439] and "An Analysis of Scaling Issues for Point-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths in MPLS-TE Core Networks"), I wonder if it's worth us putting concerted effort into modelling inter-domain point-to-multipoint PCE path computation requests and responses. We could then actually identify any potential scalability issue with the solution proposed, and investigate modifications as necessary. I will discuss this with the co-authors in more detail. And then the source PCE has to combine these sub-trees optimally? I'm not 100% sure that approach will work but nevertheless I think trying to avoid tediously iterating over all possible path combinations to compute the optimal core tree is worthy of some more consideration. Some minor typos: Section 1. Introduction Incomplete sentence: "The ability to compute......" Section 2. Terminology "lead nodes" instead of "leaf nodes" for Destination Section 5. Requirements Points (5) to (8) do not really read like requirements. Perhaps re-word? Section 6. Objective Functions Points (1) to (4) do not really read like objective functions. Perhaps re-word? Section 7.1 Core Trees Figure 3: Some of the labels on the right half of the diagram seem incorrect (i.e. should the two (XN3_1)s should be (XN1_2) and (XN3_2) respectively?) Section 7.4.1 The Extension of RP Object Errors in second sentence of text for C bit value of 1 Section 7.4.2 The PCE Sequence Object Second sentence: "this objects" DK: Excellent thanks again for your diligence and continued contributions. Regards, Femi On 21 Jan 2011, at 22:30, Daniel King wrote: Hi All, We have created a new version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures (07). http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07.t xt This version was created to fix a number of minor edits, raise the issue of manageability and help facilitate protection scenarios discussed during IETF 79 in Beijing. The draft update includes: 8. Protection Section This section is used to highlight issues discussed in Beijing. Thanks to JP and all for your questions. We expect this topic to require more discussion and one scenario is that it should be addressed in separate document. The whole protection topic (not just for P2MP and multi-domain) will require a much more detailed analyses and we will follow-up on the various issues with a separate email/discussion. 9. Manageability Considerations Obviously management of inter-domain P2MP path computations potentially raise a number issues and we have begun to document them. Each sub-areas will require further deliberation so please feel free to comment and make suggestions. Finally, the authors would like to request working group adoption of this draft. Thanks! Quintin _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce ------=_NextPart_000_0106_01CBCE20.5503AA50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Femi,

 

Thank you for taking the time to review the document. You make a = number of salient points, please see my comments (DK) in = line:

 

From:= Olufemi = Komolafe [mailto:femi@cisco.com]
Sent: 02 February 2011 = 21:37
To: Daniel King
Cc: pce@ietf.org; = msiva@cisco.com; qzhao@huawei.com
Subject: Re: [Pce] New = Version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures

 

Dan,

 

I = recently read this draft and found it pretty = interesting.

 

However, one main issue that struck me was that the = approach in Section 7.2 for the core tree computation seemed very = computational expensive.  Unless I'm missing something, It seems = like the draft is suggesting computing the VSPTs for every leaf BN and = then exhaustively working through all the potential combinations of = paths to find the optimal combination for the core tree.  

 

DK: We are gated by prior requirements for point to multipoint path = computation, including Path Computation Element (PCE) Requirements for = Point-to-Multipoint MPLS-TE [RFC 5862]. Both for SPF and MCT P2MP path = computation. Although you make an excellent point, is it necessary to = have the optimal core tree? We should defer to the operators to an = authoritative response. My personal opinion is that “good = enough” is probably suitable. Having said that, consider that = inter-domain point-to-multipoint by a PCE is more than likely a = pre-planning activity (with a PCEP request being sent from an NMS or = planning platform, versus a real-time (although that is relative) = request. So if the PCE is requested to compute a point-to-multipoint = path, does it really matter if in order to compute the optimal core tree = it takes X minutes, given the fact the service will be = signaled/established hours or even days later. On the flipside we need = to consider requirements for pre-computed backup paths, as well as = real-time recovery. I do plan to send out a separate e-mail shortly on = the role of the PCE for protection and recovery, for both P2P and P2MP = services.

 

The number of = evaluations needed struck me as potentially being very large and made me = wonder whether there was a smarter way to try to compute the optimal = core tree?    Is it possible to try to split up this = computation somehow by distributing it judiciously between the PCEs? =  For example perhaps by each PCE essentially computing the optimal = core "sub-tree" from each ingress node for the domain to all = the "downstream" BNs that are reached exclusively by it?

 

DK: We did originally look at distributed path computation but = discounted it. I'd have to go back through my notes but it may be worth = reviewing the situation. Actually giving your background (“An = Analysis of Scaling Issues in MPLS-TE Core Networks” [RFC5439] and = “An Analysis of Scaling Issues for Point-to-Multipoint Label = Switched Paths in MPLS-TE Core Networks”), I wonder if it's worth = us putting concerted effort into modelling inter-domain = point-to-multipoint PCE path computation requests and responses. We = could then actually identify any potential scalability issue with the = solution proposed, and investigate modifications as necessary.  I = will discuss this with the co-authors in more detail. =

 

And then the source = PCE has to combine these sub-trees optimally?  I'm not 100% sure = that approach will work but nevertheless I think trying to avoid = tediously iterating over all possible path combinations to compute the = optimal core tree is  worthy of some more = consideration.

 

Some minor typos:

Section 1. = Introduction 

Incomplete sentence: "The ability to = compute......"

 

Section 2. Terminology

"lead nodes" instead of "leaf = nodes" for Destination

 

Section 5. Requirements

Points (5) to (8) do not really read like = requirements.  Perhaps re-word?

 

Section 6. Objective = Functions

Points (1) to = (4) do not really read like objective functions. Perhaps = re-word?

 

Section 7.1 Core Trees

Figure 3: Some of the labels on the right half of the = diagram seem incorrect (i.e. should the two (XN3_1)s should be (XN1_2) = and (XN3_2) respectively?)

 

Section 7.4.1 The Extension of RP = Object

Errors in second = sentence of text for C bit value of 1

 

Section 7.4.2 The PCE Sequence = Object

Second sentence: = "this objects"

 

DK: Excellent thanks again for your diligence and continued = contributions.

 

Regards,

Femi

 

On = 21 Jan 2011, at 22:30, Daniel King wrote:



Hi = All,

 =

We have = created a new version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures = (07).

 =

 =

This = version was created to fix a number of minor edits, raise the issue = of  manageability and help facilitate protection scenarios = discussed during IETF 79 in Beijing. The draft update = includes:

 =

8. = Protection Section

This = section is used to highlight issues discussed in Beijing. Thanks to JP = and all for your questions. We expect this topic to require more = discussion and one scenario is that it should be addressed in separate = document. The whole protection topic (not just for P2MP and = multi-domain) will require a much more detailed analyses and we will = follow-up on the various issues with a separate email/discussion. =  

 =

9.  = Manageability Considerations

Obviously = management of inter-domain P2MP path computations potentially raise a = number issues and we have begun to document them. Each sub-areas will = require further deliberation so please feel free to comment and make = suggestions.

Finally, = the authors would like to request working group adoption of this = draft.

 =

Thanks!&nbs= p;            = ; =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;  

Quintin

_________= ______________________________________
Pce mailing list
Pce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/pce

 

------=_NextPart_000_0106_01CBCE20.5503AA50-- From daniel@olddog.co.uk Wed Feb 16 14:30:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26D773A6E88 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:30:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oLOHmirNa2a for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22183A6E25 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:30:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p1GMUjt3029440 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:30:45 GMT Received: from Serenity (88-97-23-122.dsl.zen.co.uk [88.97.23.122]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p1GMUiSF029436 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:30:45 GMT From: "Daniel King" To: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:30:41 -0000 Message-ID: <003a01cbce29$24e77280$6eb65780$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01CBCE29.24E7E7B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-language: en-gb Thread-index: AcvOKOw6hFfEvIUrSDKkCypoDIW2PA== Subject: [Pce] The Applicability of the PCE to Computing Protection and Recovery Paths X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:30:25 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01CBCE29.24E7E7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, At IETF 79 we briefly discussed how computing paths for service protection and recovery is important for P2MP services. Indeed the latest version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures includes a section on to explore how protection may be an issue for inter-domain P2MP paths. This is due to a variety of reason and not limited to: - End-to-end (synchronisation of dependent requests across multiple PCEs, inter-domain) - Local/FRR (requires next-hop info so dynamic inter-domain FRR is problematic) - Disjoint (encoding of link, node, SRLG and domain - BNs, etc.) Actually, these issues are not just relevant to the draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures. There are a number of other P2P and P2MP protection and recovery scenarios that might be explored. So it would make sense to have a draft that specifically covers the applicability of the PCE to compute protection/recovery paths. Obviously some ABR/ASBR techniques already exist but a new PCE Recovery ID could outline the existing mechanisms and identify gaps and requirements for new applications and scenarios that require enhancements to existing solutions or new mechanisms. If anyone is interested in progressing this new ID or has some feedback please let me know. I do not plan to have an ID submitted for IETF80, but I would certainly be able to discuss the topic informally (outside the WG session) at IETF80. Br, Dan. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01CBCE29.24E7E7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All, =

 

At IETF 79 we briefly discussed how computing paths = for service protection and recovery is important for P2MP services. = Indeed the latest version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures includes a section on = to explore how protection may be an issue for inter-domain P2MP paths. = This is due to a variety of reason and not limited to:

 

- = End-to-end (synchronisation of dependent requests across multiple PCEs, = inter-domain)

- Local/FRR = (requires next-hop info so dynamic inter-domain FRR is = problematic)

- Disjoint (encoding = of link, node, SRLG and domain - BNs, etc.)

 

Actually, these issues are not just relevant to the = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures. There are a number of = other P2P and P2MP protection and recovery scenarios that might be = explored. So it would make sense to have a draft that specifically = covers the applicability of the PCE to compute protection/recovery = paths. Obviously some ABR/ASBR techniques already exist but a new PCE = Recovery ID could outline the existing mechanisms and identify gaps and = requirements for new applications and scenarios that require = enhancements to existing solutions or new mechanisms.

 

If = anyone is interested in progressing this new ID or has some feedback = please let me know. I do not plan to have an ID submitted for IETF80, = but I would certainly be able to discuss the topic informally (outside = the WG session) at IETF80.  

 

Br, = Dan.

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01CBCE29.24E7E7B0-- From julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com Thu Feb 17 09:20:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF30F3A6D1C for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:20:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MDuKMDTUKFE5 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com [195.101.245.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A533A6CB8 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id CE835798006 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:26:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.46]) by p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98C2760002 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:26:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.192.128.44]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:21:19 +0100 Received: from [10.193.71.71] ([10.193.71.71]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:21:18 +0100 Message-ID: <4D5D590E.6040000@orange-ftgroup.com> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:21:18 +0100 From: Julien Meuric Organization: France Telecom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101208 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pce@ietf.org References: <006501cbb9ba$d40e3e70$7c2abb50$@olddog.co.uk> <010501cbce20$5501fca0$ff05f5e0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <010501cbce20$5501fca0$ff05f5e0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2011 17:21:18.0520 (UTC) FILETIME=[16B89380:01CBCEC7] Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:20:49 -0000 Hi. Chair hat off, so non-authoritative answer. :-) I tend to agree that "good enough" is enough, especially with respect to an expensive optimality which might not be my fellow's optimality... Thanks, Julien Le 16/02/2011 22:27, Daniel King a écrit : > Although you make an excellent point, is it necessary to have the > optimal core tree? We should defer to the operators to an > authoritative response. My personal opinion is that “good enough” is > probably suitable. From quintin.zhao@huawei.com Thu Feb 17 14:52:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909E93A6CE0 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:52:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g8iqNX9wLHDI for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from usaga04-in.huawei.com (usaga04-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.180]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6DE3A6CC3 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LGS0096MA813W@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:52:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.18.9.107]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPS id <0LGS004FLA819R@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for pce@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:52:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from DFWEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.101) by dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.107) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:52:43 -0800 Received: from QZHAO (10.212.246.83) by DFWEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.101) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.270.1; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:52:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:53:04 -0500 From: Quintin Zhao In-reply-to: X-Originating-IP: [10.212.246.83] To: julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com Message-id: <000c01cbcef5$70d1fb30$5275f190$%zhao@huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en-us Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcvO3czYFBftz/+JSjyMOaE03dlAjgADSQKg References: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 00:48:52 -0800 Cc: pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:54:10 -0000 Hi Julien, In order to get a "good enough" result instead of getting an optimal result in the dynamic scenario, we have mentioned a possible procedure in the last paragraph of section 7.2 from the current version of the draft, where the transit PCEs should be configurable to control the number of paths sent upstream. Then the challenge is to find the right number (or the "good enough" number) of path sent upstream we can configure at the transit PCEs. It depends on a lot of factors, such as the network topology and the definition of the "good enough". :-) Any suggestions regarding to procedures/heuristics that might help to get a "good enough" number are welcome. Thanks for your time! Quintin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:21:18 +0100 From: Julien Meuric Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <4D5D590E.6040000@orange-ftgroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi. Chair hat off, so non-authoritative answer. :-) I tend to agree that "good enough" is enough, especially with respect to an expensive optimality which might not be my fellow's optimality... Thanks, Julien Le 16/02/2011 22:27, Daniel King a ?crit : > Although you make an excellent point, is it necessary to have the > optimal core tree? We should defer to the operators to an > authoritative response. My personal opinion is that ?good enough? is > probably suitable. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce End of Pce Digest, Vol 78, Issue 10 *********************************** From femi@cisco.com Fri Feb 18 04:34:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFABB3A6DA9 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 04:34:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id txzRJnsv+Sfp for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 04:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D90F3A6C9D for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 04:34:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=femi@cisco.com; l=34340; q=dns/txt; s=amsiport01001; t=1298032514; x=1299242114; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=Y6Aa6cRo3mpq20yzpJw1JkrYCNb6HdYC9q/fVzGqRYY=; b=pkZKwYgHKfBHTURtrZE4cUknrSYGsCz0HX2Zp+Fmu5AAIBjWHtS/3Ea/ x9NSDkjAgwTe2fVu4HmsUqtpkSiS5wzowoOh+Hd80DaIBEyfaNBH8URsr V857hGsixRf9QuHRSuq0dspGYYaUFBMfN0B4zF9oCz+j+DIDLKSvMVg0G A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.62,186,1297036800"; d="scan'208,217";a="76681496" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2011 12:35:13 +0000 Received: from dhcp-144-254-153-56.cisco.com (dhcp-144-254-153-56.cisco.com [144.254.153.56]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p1ICZBON018193; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:35:11 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--249736206 From: Olufemi Komolafe In-Reply-To: <010501cbce20$5501fca0$ff05f5e0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:35:27 +0000 Message-Id: <1CB529AF-04B0-4374-A8E3-875E0726C6D7@cisco.com> References: <006501cbb9ba$d40e3e70$7c2abb50$@olddog.co.uk> <010501cbce20$5501fca0$ff05f5e0$@olddog.co.uk> To: Daniel King X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: pce@ietf.org, msiva@cisco.com, qzhao@huawei.com Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:34:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1--249736206 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Dan, On 16 Feb 2011, at 21:27, Daniel King wrote: > Hi Femi, > =20 > Thank you for taking the time to review the document. You make a = number of salient points, please see my comments (DK) in line: > =20 > From: Olufemi Komolafe [mailto:femi@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: 02 February 2011 21:37 > To: Daniel King > Cc: pce@ietf.org; msiva@cisco.com; qzhao@huawei.com > Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures > =20 > Dan, > =20 > I recently read this draft and found it pretty interesting. > =20 > However, one main issue that struck me was that the approach in = Section 7.2 for the core tree computation seemed very computational = expensive. Unless I'm missing something, It seems like the draft is = suggesting computing the VSPTs for every leaf BN and then exhaustively = working through all the potential combinations of paths to find the = optimal combination for the core tree. =20 > =20 > DK: We are gated by prior requirements for point to multipoint path = computation, including Path Computation Element (PCE) Requirements for = Point-to-Multipoint MPLS-TE [RFC 5862]. Both for SPF and MCT P2MP path = computation. Although you make an excellent point, is it necessary to = have the optimal core tree? We should defer to the operators to an = authoritative response. My personal opinion is that =93good enough=94 is = probably suitable. Having said that, consider that inter-domain = point-to-multipoint by a PCE is more than likely a pre-planning activity = (with a PCEP request being sent from an NMS or planning platform, versus = a real-time (although that is relative) request. So if the PCE is = requested to compute a point-to-multipoint path, does it really matter = if in order to compute the optimal core tree it takes X minutes, given = the fact the service will be signaled/established hours or even days = later. On the flipside we need to consider requirements for pre-computed = backup paths, as well as real-time recovery. I do plan to send out a = separate e-mail shortly on the role of the PCE for protection and = recovery, for both P2P and P2MP services. OK, fair enough. > =20 > The number of evaluations needed struck me as potentially being very = large and made me wonder whether there was a smarter way to try to = compute the optimal core tree? Is it possible to try to split up this = computation somehow by distributing it judiciously between the PCEs? = For example perhaps by each PCE essentially computing the optimal core = "sub-tree" from each ingress node for the domain to all the "downstream" = BNs that are reached exclusively by it? > =20 > DK: We did originally look at distributed path computation but = discounted it. I'd have to go back through my notes but it may be worth = reviewing the situation. Actually giving your background (=93An Analysis = of Scaling Issues in MPLS-TE Core Networks=94 [RFC5439] and =93An = Analysis of Scaling Issues for Point-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths = in MPLS-TE Core Networks=94), I wonder if it's worth us putting = concerted effort into modelling inter-domain point-to-multipoint PCE = path computation requests and responses. We could then actually identify = any potential scalability issue with the solution proposed, and = investigate modifications as necessary. I will discuss this with the = co-authors in more detail. > =20 Yeah, sounds good. We can discuss further offline. > And then the source PCE has to combine these sub-trees optimally? I'm = not 100% sure that approach will work but nevertheless I think trying to = avoid tediously iterating over all possible path combinations to compute = the optimal core tree is worthy of some more consideration. > =20 > Some minor typos: > Section 1. Introduction=20 > Incomplete sentence: "The ability to compute......" > =20 > Section 2. Terminology > "lead nodes" instead of "leaf nodes" for Destination > =20 > Section 5. Requirements > Points (5) to (8) do not really read like requirements. Perhaps = re-word? > =20 > Section 6. Objective Functions > Points (1) to (4) do not really read like objective functions. Perhaps = re-word? > =20 > Section 7.1 Core Trees > Figure 3: Some of the labels on the right half of the diagram seem = incorrect (i.e. should the two (XN3_1)s should be (XN1_2) and (XN3_2) = respectively?) > =20 > Section 7.4.1 The Extension of RP Object > Errors in second sentence of text for C bit value of 1 > =20 > Section 7.4.2 The PCE Sequence Object > Second sentence: "this objects" > =20 > DK: Excellent thanks again for your diligence and continued = contributions. No problem. Regards, Femi > =20 > Regards, > Femi > =20 > On 21 Jan 2011, at 22:30, Daniel King wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi All, > =20 > We have created a new version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures (07). > =20 > = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures-07= .txt > =20 > This version was created to fix a number of minor edits, raise the = issue of manageability and help facilitate protection scenarios = discussed during IETF 79 in Beijing. The draft update includes: > =20 > 8. Protection Section > This section is used to highlight issues discussed in Beijing. Thanks = to JP and all for your questions. We expect this topic to require more = discussion and one scenario is that it should be addressed in separate = document. The whole protection topic (not just for P2MP and = multi-domain) will require a much more detailed analyses and we will = follow-up on the various issues with a separate email/discussion. =20 > =20 > 9. Manageability Considerations > Obviously management of inter-domain P2MP path computations = potentially raise a number issues and we have begun to document them. = Each sub-areas will require further deliberation so please feel free to = comment and make suggestions. > Finally, the authors would like to request working group adoption of = this draft. > =20 > Thanks! = =20 > Quintin > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > =20 --Apple-Mail-1--249736206 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Dan,

On 16 Feb 2011, at 21:27, = Daniel King wrote:

Hi = Femi,
Thank = you for taking the time to review the document. You make a number of = salient points, please see my comments (DK) in = line:
From: Olufemi Komolafe = [mailto:femi@cisco.com] 
Sent: 02 February 2011 = 21:37
To: Daniel = King
Cc: pce@ietf.org; msiva@cisco.com; qzhao@huawei.com
Subject: Re: [Pce] New Version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures
 
Dan,
I recently read this = draft and found it pretty interesting.
 
However, one = main issue that struck me was that the approach in Section 7.2 for the = core tree computation seemed very computational expensive.  Unless = I'm missing something, It seems like the draft is suggesting computing = the VSPTs for every leaf BN and then exhaustively working through all = the potential combinations of paths to find the optimal combination for = the core tree.  DK: = We are gated by prior requirements for point to multipoint path = computation, including Path Computation Element (PCE) Requirements for = Point-to-Multipoint MPLS-TE [RFC 5862]. Both for SPF and MCT P2MP path = computation. Although you make an excellent point, is it necessary to = have the optimal core tree? We should defer to the operators to an = authoritative response. My personal opinion is that =93good enough=94 is = probably suitable. Having said that, consider that inter-domain = point-to-multipoint by a PCE is more than likely a pre-planning activity = (with a PCEP request being sent from an NMS or planning platform, versus = a real-time (although that is relative) request. So if the PCE is = requested to compute a point-to-multipoint path, does it really matter = if in order to compute the optimal core tree it takes X minutes, given = the fact the service will be signaled/established hours or even days = later. On the flipside we need to consider requirements for pre-computed = backup paths, as well as real-time recovery. I do plan to send out a = separate e-mail shortly on the role of the PCE for protection and = recovery, for both P2P and P2MP = services.

OK, fair enough.

The number of evaluations = needed struck me as potentially being very large and made me wonder = whether there was a smarter way to try to compute the optimal core tree? =    Is it possible to try to split up this computation somehow = by distributing it judiciously between the PCEs?  For example = perhaps by each PCE essentially computing the optimal core "sub-tree" = from each ingress node for the domain to all the "downstream" BNs that = are reached exclusively by it?DK: = We did originally look at distributed path computation but discounted = it. I'd have to go back through my notes but it may be worth reviewing = the situation. Actually giving your background (=93An Analysis of = Scaling Issues in MPLS-TE Core Networks=94 [RFC5439] and =93An Analysis = of Scaling Issues for Point-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths in = MPLS-TE Core Networks=94), I wonder if it's worth us putting concerted = effort into modelling inter-domain point-to-multipoint PCE path = computation requests and responses. We could then actually identify any = potential scalability issue with the solution proposed, and investigate = modifications as necessary.  I will discuss this with the = co-authors in more detail.
And then the source PCE = has to combine these sub-trees optimally?  I'm not 100% sure that = approach will work but nevertheless I think trying to avoid tediously = iterating over all possible path combinations to compute the optimal = core tree is  worthy of some more = consideration.
Some minor = typos:
Section 1. = Introduction 
Incomplete = sentence: "The ability to compute......"
 
Section 2. = Terminology
"lead nodes" instead of = "leaf nodes" for Destination
 
Section 5. = Requirements
Points (5) to (8) do not = really read like requirements.  Perhaps = re-word?
Section 6. Objective = Functions
Points (1) to (4) do not = really read like objective functions. Perhaps = re-word?
Section 7.1 Core = Trees
Figure 3: Some of the = labels on the right half of the diagram seem incorrect (i.e. should the = two (XN3_1)s should be (XN1_2) and (XN3_2) = respectively?)
Section 7.4.1 The = Extension of RP Object
Errors in second sentence of text for C bit value of = 1
Section 7.4.2 The PCE = Sequence Object
Second = sentence: "this objects"
DK: = Excellent thanks again for your diligence and continued = contributions.

=
No = problem.

Regards,
Femi


On 21 Jan 2011, at 22:30, = Daniel King wrote:
Hi = All,
We have = created a new version of = draft-zhao-pce-pcep-inter-domain-p2mp-procedures = (07).
Pce@ietf.org
X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id CD1D53A68FA; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:50:53 -0800 (PST) To: adrian.farrel@huawei.com From: IETF Secretariat Message-Id: <20110222155053.CD1D53A68FA@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:50:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: housley@vigilsec.com, jpv@cisco.com, pce@ietf.org, adrian.farrel@huawei.com, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [Pce] IPR Disclosure: Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ)'s Statement about IPR related to RFC 4655 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:50:53 -0000 Dear Adrian Farrel: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your RFC entitled "A Path Computation Element (PCE) Based Architecture" (RFC4655) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2011-02-21 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1494/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ)'s Statement about IPR related to RFC 4655." The IETF Secretariat From wwwrun@core3.amsl.com Tue Feb 22 07:51:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 349AE3A68F2; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:51:42 -0800 (PST) To: adrian.farrel@huawei.com, Jeanlouis.Leroux@orange-ftgroup.com, takeda.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp, oki@ice.uec.ac.jp From: IETF Secretariat Message-Id: <20110222155143.349AE3A68F2@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:51:43 -0800 (PST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:58:27 -0800 Cc: housley@vigilsec.com, jpv@cisco.com, pce@ietf.org, adrian.farrel@huawei.com, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [Pce] IPR Disclosure: Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ)'s Statement about IPR related to RFC 5623 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:51:43 -0000 Dear Adrian Farrel, Jean-Louis Le Roux, Tomonori Takeda, Eiji Oki: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your RFC entitled "Framework for PCE-Based Inter-Layer MPLS and GMPLS Traffic Engineering" (RFC5623) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2011-02-21 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1495/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ)'s Statement about IPR related to RFC 5623." The IETF Secretariat From takeda.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp Wed Feb 23 20:39:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D4FC3A6968; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:39:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lGGJG-92sssF; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:38:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53EAF3A6953; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:38:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.149]) by tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1O4dlWD007905; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B17065F9; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from imail2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imail2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.247]) by mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046BB65F1; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([129.60.80.55]) by imail2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p1O4dYV4001648; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:39:46 +0900 Message-ID: <4D65E0F6.7050004@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:39:18 +0900 From: Tomonori TAKEDA User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ietf.org, pce@ietf.org, mpls@ietf.org, mpls-tp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Pce] iPOP 2011 submission deadline extended to March 4 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:39:00 -0000 (Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message.) CCAMP, MPLS, MPLS-TP and PCE subscribers, Please find below iPOP 2011 CFP with the extended deadline (March 4th). Tomonori Takeda ------------------------------------------------------------- Call for Presentation 7th International Conference on IP + Optical Network (iPOP 2011) June 2-3, 2011 NEC Tamagawa Plant, Kanagawa, Japan http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2011/ The conference is intended to share among the industry and the academia, the knowledge, new findings, and experience on the state-of-the art of IP and optical networking technologies. It features technical sessions and planned exhibitions. The opportunity to participate is open to all. Important Dates: Submission deadline of one-page abstract: March 4, 2011 (extended) Notification of acceptance: April 4, 2011 Submission deadline of final presentation slides: April 22, 2011 The Technical Program Committee for iPOP 2011 is soliciting presentation proposals for this conference. Protocol design, experiment, theory, implementation, and operational experiences are solicited. The topics of the conference will include but not limited to the following: * GMPLS/ASON technologies * GMPLS Network management, OA&M * Multi-layer network (MLN) / Multi-region network (MRN) * Path Computation Element (PCE), Traffic engineering * Inter-area/Inter-AS network * L1VPN, Bandwidth on Demand, and Photonic Grid * Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON), Routing wavelength assignment, Impairment management * GMPLS-controlled Ethernet Label Switching (GELS) and related Ethernet transport technologies * Carrier Ethernet and MPLS-TP * Photonic Network for NxGN and NwGN * Application with high-bandwidth demand * Testbed, field trial If you wish to submit a topic for consideration, please send an Extended Abstracts of a 400 words and a maximum of 1 page, including figures and diagrams, speaker$B!G(Bs name, affiliation, and contact information to the Technical Program Committee at ipop2011-CFP@pilab.jp. Please see http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2011/ for more details. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn Thu Feb 24 18:04:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 137733A679C; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:04:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.635 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.635 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JU+i56hCIZed; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [63.218.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6143A68B0; Thu, 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[127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027C73A68A0 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:10:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fWpuv0QmEd42 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:10:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from aquila.cttc.es (aquila.cttc.es [84.88.62.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2195D3A691E for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from leo (leo.cttc.es [84.88.62.208]) by aquila.cttc.es (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p1P61xtT003283; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 07:01:59 +0100 Received: from intranet.cttc.es (xaloc.cttc.es [84.88.62.225]) by leo (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8B41B20028; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 07:11:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 07:02:15 +0100 To: zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn, Julien Meuric From: Ramon Casellas Message-ID: <10cf38bb810d2126e4c5c89027b86b17@intranet.cttc.es> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer 5.1 (phpmailer.sourceforge.net) X-Mailer: FeLaMiMail In-Reply-To: Organization: Centre Tecnologic de Telecomunicacions de Catalunya MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b1_10cf38bb810d2126e4c5c89027b86b17" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (leo [0.0.0.0]); Fri, 25 Feb 2011 07:11:16 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 84.88.62.230 Cc: pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 06:10:52 -0000 --b1_10cf38bb810d2126e4c5c89027b86b17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----------------original message----------------- From: zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn > >Dear Ramon > >Our team verified the standard implementation (RFC5440) in windows, linux = and unix >enviroment after we saw your email. Fortunately, the results indicate that= RFC5440 is right. That >is to say, there is no problem to bind two or more sockets in the same IP = address and port >number. > >Dear Fei, > >Thank you very much for your feedback and insight, that is indeed reassuri= ng!. > >I guess we are still puzzled by Linux man page[1] ( "Only one IP socket ma= y be bound to any >given local (address, port) pair"). We will check the details you provided= , and get back to >you (privately) if any other issues. We will re-check the use of SO_REUSEA= DDR, which >seemed to be, according to the same url, to reuse sockets in a wait/close = state. ("A TCP local >socket address that has been bound is unavailable for some time after clos= ing, unless the >SO_REUSEADDR flag has been set. Care should be taken when using this flag = as it makes TCP less >reliable") > >In any case, that is one less problem, thanks again > >Ramon > > >[1] http://linux.die.net/man/7/ip > > -- --b1_10cf38bb810d2126e4c5c89027b86b17 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----------------original message-----------------

From: zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn
 


Dear Ramon

Our team verified the standard implementation (RFC5440) in= windows, linux and unix enviroment after we saw your email. Fortunately, <= /font>the results indicate that RFC5440 is right. That is = to say, there is no problem to bind two or more sockets in the same IP addr= ess and port number.

Dear Fei,

Thank you very much for your feedback and insight, that is indeed reassurin= g!.

I guess we are still puzzled by Linux man page[1] ( "Only one IP socket may= be bound to any given local (address, port) pair"). We will check the deta= ils you provided, and get back to you (privately) if any other issues.= We will re-check the use of SO_REUSEADDR, which seemed to be, according to= the same url, to reuse sockets in a wait/close state. ("A TCP local socket= address that has been bound is unavailable for some time after closing, un= less the SO_REUSEADDR flag has been set. Care should be taken when u= sing this flag as it makes TCP less reliable")

In any case, that is one less problem, thanks again

Ramon


[1] http://linux.die.net/man/7/ip


--b1_10cf38bb810d2126e4c5c89027b86b17-- From ramon.casellas@cttc.es Fri Feb 25 00:58:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467813A693B for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 00:58:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.094, BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_STOCK2=3.988, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w9BWZtnZolHU for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 00:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scorpius.cttc.es (scorpius.cttc.es [84.88.62.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EBD3A681C for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 00:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from castor (postfix@castor.cttc.es [84.88.62.196]) by Scorpius.cttc.es (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p1P8wXGn002227; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:58:38 +0100 Received: from [84.88.61.50] (pcrcasellas.cttc.es [84.88.61.50]) by castor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449322FC252; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:58:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D676FC0.7000205@cttc.es> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:00:48 +0100 From: Ramon Casellas Organization: CTTC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110221 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (castor); Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:58:38 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 84.88.62.197 Cc: pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 08:58:04 -0000 On 25/02/2011 3:05, zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn wrote: > > Dear Ramon > > Our team verified the standard implementation (RFC5440) in windows, > linux and unix enviroment after we saw your email. Fortunately, the > results indicate that RFC5440 is right. That is to say, there is no > problem to bind two or more sockets in the same IP address and port > number. > Dear Fei, Unfortunately, we are still having some issues in Linux, as discussed in the mail sent separately. I would be more than happy to realize my (more than probable) mistake and stand corrected, but the use of SO_REUSEADDR does not seem to solve the problem (even relying in a non portable interpretation of SO_REUSEADDR / SO_REUSEPORT). I was reluctant to post a sample code that reproduces the issue in the pce@ietf to illustrate the problem, so I apologize in advance. The net result (as detailed in previous mails) is that binding to the same local address after a server has started listening fails. Things work if I remove either the client or the server part. Am I missing something? Thanks in advance Ramon ------------------------------------- #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include int one = 1; int portno = 4189; void error(const char *msg) { perror(msg); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } void get_iface_ipv4(char *ifname, struct sockaddr *addr) { struct ifreq ifr; int skfd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0); strcpy(ifr.ifr_name, ifname); ioctl(skfd, SIOCGIFADDR, &ifr); *addr = ifr.ifr_addr; close(skfd); } int client (struct sockaddr_in* local_addr) { int sockfd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (setsockopt(sockfd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, &one, sizeof(one)) < 0) error("SO_REUSEADDR client"); if (bind(sockfd, (struct sockaddr *)local_addr, sizeof(struct sockaddr_in)) < 0) error("bind client"); return sockfd; } int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { struct sockaddr_in local_addr; memset(&local_addr, 0, sizeof(struct sockaddr_in)); get_iface_ipv4("eth0", (struct sockaddr*) &local_addr); local_addr.sin_family = AF_INET; local_addr.sin_port = htons(portno); int sockfd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (setsockopt(sockfd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, &one, sizeof(one)) < 0) error("SO_REUSEADDR server"); if (bind(sockfd, (struct sockaddr *) &local_addr, sizeof(local_addr)) < 0) error("ERROR on binding"); if (listen(sockfd, 10) <0) error("ERROR on listen"); int c1 = client (&local_addr); return 0; } From ogondio@tid.es Fri Feb 25 03:43:40 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0C43A696E for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:43:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.089 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_STOCK2=3.988, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u2rCGLMn8qt6 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from tidos.tid.es (tidos.tid.es [195.235.93.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3BE3A6828 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbrightmailg01.hi.inet (sbrightmailg01.hi.inet [10.95.64.104]) by tid.hi.inet (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LH600E9R8M4Q4@tid.hi.inet> for pce@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:44:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from tid (tid.hi.inet [10.95.64.10]) by sbrightmailg01.hi.inet (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 02.95.02778.536976D4; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:44:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from correo.tid.es (mailhost.hi.inet [10.95.64.100]) by tid.hi.inet (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPS id <0LH600E9X8M4Q4@tid.hi.inet> for pce@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:44:28 +0100 (MET) Received: from EXCLU2K7.hi.inet ([10.95.67.65]) by htcasmad1.hi.inet ([192.168.0.1]) with mapi; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:44:28 +0100 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:44:25 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Oscar_Gonz=E1lez_de_Dios?= In-reply-to: <4D676FC0.7000205@cttc.es> To: Ramon Casellas , "zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-language: es-ES Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Thread-topic: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies Thread-index: AcvUyj9rEH38PwrLRzy4GYUy8pz3eQAEwUqg acceptlanguage: es-ES, en-US X-AuditID: 0a5f4068-b7c0aae000000ada-14-4d6796355451 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAReBNLE= References: <4D676FC0.7000205@cttc.es> Cc: "pce@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:43:40 -0000 Hi Ramon, Fei, We have tested the PCE implementation in both Windows and Linux and= we get different results. The implementation is made in java, and the SO_R= EUSADOR option is set in the sockets. Behavior in Linux: -> Test 1: Create and connect a client socket with both loc= al and remote ports 4189, OK, Create and connect more client sockets with b= oth local and remote ports 4189, OK, -> Test 2: create and bind server socket in 4189. Then crea= te and connect a client socket with both local and remote ports 4189, fails= ! -> Test 3: create and connect a client socket with both loc= al and remote ports 4189, ok. Then create and bind a server socket in 4189,= OK!! Thus... seems in Linux the order matters.... Behavior in Windows: -> Test 1: Create and connect a client socket with both loc= al and remote ports 4189, OK, Create and connect more client sockets with b= oth local and remote ports 4189, OK, -> Test 2: create and bind server socket in 4189. Then crea= te and connect a client socket with both local and remote ports 4189, OK!! -> Test 3: create and connect a client socket with both loc= al and remote ports 4189, ok. Then create and bind a server socket in 4189,= OK!! Thus... seems Windows does not have any issues. In light of the results, RFC 5440 has no issues when connecting a c= lient to several servers (test 1). However, as would be the case in the hie= rarchical PCE, a PCE that needs to act as both client and server (e.g. the = child PCE), has issues in Linux, as once it is listening in 4189, no client= sockets can be established (to connect, e.g. to the parent PCE). Then, for= the hierarchical PCE case, RFC5440 enforcement of local port binding shoul= d be removed. Best Regards, =D3scar >-----Mensaje original----- >De: pce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de >Ramon Casellas >Enviado el: viernes, 25 de febrero de 2011 10:01 >Para: zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn >CC: pce@ietf.org >Asunto: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP >adjacencies > >On 25/02/2011 3:05, zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn wrote: >> >> Dear Ramon >> >> Our team verified the standard implementation (RFC5440) in windows, >> linux and unix enviroment after we saw your email. Fortunately, the >> results indicate that RFC5440 is right. That is to say, there is no >> problem to bind two or more sockets in the same IP address and port >> number. >> > >Dear Fei, > >Unfortunately, we are still having some issues in Linux, as discussed in >the mail sent separately. > >I would be more than happy to realize my (more than probable) mistake >and stand corrected, but the use of SO_REUSEADDR does not seem to solve >the problem (even relying in a non portable interpretation of >SO_REUSEADDR / SO_REUSEPORT). > >I was reluctant to post a sample code that reproduces the issue in the >pce@ietf to illustrate the problem, so I apologize in advance. The net >result (as detailed in previous mails) is that binding to the same local >address after a server has started listening fails. > >Things work if I remove either the client or the server part. Am I >missing something? > >Thanks in advance > >Ramon > > > > > >------------------------------------- > >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include > >int one =3D 1; >int portno =3D 4189; > >void error(const char *msg) >{ > perror(msg); > exit(EXIT_FAILURE); >} > >void get_iface_ipv4(char *ifname, struct sockaddr *addr) >{ > struct ifreq ifr; > int skfd =3D socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0); > strcpy(ifr.ifr_name, ifname); > ioctl(skfd, SIOCGIFADDR, &ifr); > *addr =3D ifr.ifr_addr; > close(skfd); >} > >int client (struct sockaddr_in* local_addr) >{ > int sockfd =3D socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); > if (setsockopt(sockfd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, &one, >sizeof(one)) < 0) > error("SO_REUSEADDR client"); > if (bind(sockfd, (struct sockaddr *)local_addr, sizeof(struct >sockaddr_in)) < 0) > error("bind client"); > return sockfd; >} > >int main(int argc, char *argv[]) >{ > struct sockaddr_in local_addr; > memset(&local_addr, 0, sizeof(struct sockaddr_in)); > get_iface_ipv4("eth0", (struct sockaddr*) &local_addr); > local_addr.sin_family =3D AF_INET; > local_addr.sin_port =3D htons(portno); > > int sockfd =3D socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); > if (setsockopt(sockfd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, &one, >sizeof(one)) < 0) > error("SO_REUSEADDR server"); > if (bind(sockfd, (struct sockaddr *) &local_addr, >sizeof(local_addr)) < 0) > error("ERROR on binding"); > if (listen(sockfd, 10) <0) > error("ERROR on listen"); > > int c1 =3D client (&local_addr); > return 0; >} > > >_______________________________________________ >Pce mailing list >Pce@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nu= estra pol=EDtica de env=EDo y recepci=F3n de correo electr=F3nico en el enl= ace situado m=E1s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and re= ceive email on the basis of the terms set out at. http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx From ramon.casellas@cttc.es Fri Feb 25 03:58:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8883A697D for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:58:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.575 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.575 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.724, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kN053rOq8zz9 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:58:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scorpius.cttc.es (scorpius.cttc.es [84.88.62.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D5B3A68C2 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from castor (postfix@castor.cttc.es [84.88.62.196]) by Scorpius.cttc.es (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p1PBxGfD003474; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:59:21 +0100 Received: from [84.88.61.50] (pcrcasellas.cttc.es [84.88.61.50]) by castor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD1F2FC252; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:59:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D679A1C.5040305@cttc.es> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:01:32 +0100 From: Ramon Casellas Organization: CTTC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110221 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Oscar_Gonz=E1lez_de_Dios?= References: <4D676FC0.7000205@cttc.es> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (castor); Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:59:22 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 84.88.62.197 Cc: "pce@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:58:46 -0000 Oscar, Fei all, Please see inline On 25/02/2011 12:44, Oscar González de Dios wrote: > We have tested the PCE implementation in both Windows and Linux and we get different results. The implementation is made in java, and the SO_REUSADOR option is set in the sockets. > Behavior in Linux: > > -> Test 2: create and bind server socket in 4189. Then create and connect a client socket with both local and remote ports 4189, fails! Indeed this confirms our main case (as illustrated with the previous test code). Additionally, it does not seem to matter whether the server binds to a specific address or binds to a INADDR_ANY. As soon as the server binds to port 4189, the client cannot. > In light of the results, RFC 5440 has no issues when connecting a client to several servers (test 1). However, as would be the case in the hierarchical PCE, a PCE that needs to act as both client and server (e.g. the child PCE), has issues in Linux, as once it is listening in 4189, no client sockets can be established (to connect, e.g. to the parent PCE). Then, for the hierarchical PCE case, RFC5440 enforcement of local port binding should be removed. As you may guess, it is not only a matter of H-PCE, but I'm afraid that (unless mistake on my part) we cannot be compliant with RFC 5440 the moment that we want to establish any adjacency with a peer, BRPC, etc. Moreover, the natural order seems to be to bind on the listening port and if/when necessary, to connect to a peer. Thanks for your feedback Ramon -- Ramon Casellas, Ph.D. Research Associate - Optical Networking Area -- http://wikiona.cttc.es CTTC - Centre Tecnològic de Telecomunicacions de Catalunya, PMT Ed B4 Av. Carl Friedrich Gauss 7 08860 Castelldefels (Barcelona) - Spain Tel.: +34 93 645 29 16 -- Fax. +34 93 645 29 01 From Christian.Kaas-Petersen@tieto.com Fri Feb 25 04:51:50 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5233A69A7 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 04:51:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wkB8E0JOaLLV for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 04:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ebb05.tieto.com (ebb05.tieto.com [131.207.168.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC7B3A69A2 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 04:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 83cfa824-b7b72ae000000bb2-8a-4d67a617a2aa Received: from FIVLA-EXHUB02.eu.tieto.com ( [131.207.136.42]) by ebb05.tieto.com (SMTP Mailer) with SMTP id 3A.04.02994.716A76D4; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:52:39 +0200 (EET) Received: from EXMB02.eu.tieto.com ([169.254.1.89]) by FIVLA-EXHUB02.eu.tieto.com ([131.207.136.42]) with mapi; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:52:39 +0200 From: To: Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:52:38 +0200 Thread-Topic: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies Thread-Index: AcvU43w4i+iC1j2SQmO5DYnU56WtHgAAbNNl Message-ID: References: <4D676FC0.7000205@cttc.es> , <4D679A1C.5040305@cttc.es> In-Reply-To: <4D679A1C.5040305@cttc.es> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:51:50 -0000 To answer the original question (why must the source port take a specific value), the use of a specific source port was added in draft-ietf-pce-pcep-= 14, the draft which later became RFC 5440. The reason for the specific=20 source port was discussed on the PCE mail list, see for example=20 the mail sent Mon, 2 Jun 2008, 16:03:02 -04:00. The argument for the specific source port was, that the PCE working group could imagine a scenario of only one PCC-to-PCE session. Christian=20 ________________________________________ From: pce-bounces@ietf.org [pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ramon Casell= as [ramon.casellas@cttc.es] Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 2:01 PM To: Oscar Gonz=E1lez de Dios Cc: pce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP a= djacencies Oscar, Fei all, Please see inline On 25/02/2011 12:44, Oscar Gonz=E1lez de Dios wrote: > We have tested the PCE implementation in both Windows and Linux = and we get different results. The implementation is made in java, and the S= O_REUSADOR option is set in the sockets. > Behavior in Linux: > > -> Test 2: create and bind server socket in 4189. Then = create and connect a client socket with both local and remote ports 4189, f= ails! Indeed this confirms our main case (as illustrated with the previous test code). Additionally, it does not seem to matter whether the server binds to a specific address or binds to a INADDR_ANY. As soon as the server binds to port 4189, the client cannot. > In light of the results, RFC 5440 has no issues when connecting = a client to several servers (test 1). However, as would be the case in the = hierarchical PCE, a PCE that needs to act as both client and server (e.g. t= he child PCE), has issues in Linux, as once it is listening in 4189, no cli= ent sockets can be established (to connect, e.g. to the parent PCE). Then, = for the hierarchical PCE case, RFC5440 enforcement of local port binding sh= ould be removed. As you may guess, it is not only a matter of H-PCE, but I'm afraid that (unless mistake on my part) we cannot be compliant with RFC 5440 the moment that we want to establish any adjacency with a peer, BRPC, etc. Moreover, the natural order seems to be to bind on the listening port and if/when necessary, to connect to a peer. Thanks for your feedback Ramon -- Ramon Casellas, Ph.D. Research Associate - Optical Networking Area -- http://wikiona.cttc.es CTTC - Centre Tecnol=F2gic de Telecomunicacions de Catalunya, PMT Ed B4 Av. Carl Friedrich Gauss 7 08860 Castelldefels (Barcelona) - Spain Tel.: +34 93 645 29 16 -- Fax. +34 93 645 29 01 _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn Sun Feb 27 22:49:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8103A6AB6 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2011 22:49:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.586 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.586 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.951, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N+57M+LfFIP5 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2011 22:49:38 -0800 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BUNZQbzv0tkG for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scorpius.cttc.es (scorpius.cttc.es [84.88.62.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6D33A68F2 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from castor (postfix@castor.cttc.es [84.88.62.196]) by Scorpius.cttc.es (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p1S78bw2014506; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 08:08:42 +0100 Received: from [84.88.61.50] (pcrcasellas.cttc.es [84.88.61.50]) by castor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424DF2FC271; Mon, 28 Feb 2011 08:08:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D6B4A7F.8090506@cttc.es> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 08:10:55 +0100 From: Ramon Casellas Organization: CTTC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110221 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090002030300060209080506" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (castor); Mon, 28 Feb 2011 08:08:41 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 84.88.62.197 Cc: "pce@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Pce] Question / issue PCEP port restriction - multiple PCEP adjacencies X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 07:08:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090002030300060209080506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fei, All, See my comments inline On 28/02/2011 7:48, zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn wrote: > > We verify the implementation in Linux again , just as Oscar said, > different orders give different results. > As a summary: even with the use of socket options, one cannot bind a client socket after binding a listening socket, portably. In practice this seems to affect GNU/Linux in particular and windows / *BSD seem to work ok, but the fact that e.g. java programs behave differently on different platforms is not good. > Just my two cents, although it MUST be careful to change the > description of standards, it seems that we SHOULD do so to cover all > kinds of scenarios and for easy implementation if it is necessay. I tend to agree, this is not something trivial, but we can raise the issue in Prague. Although it is an important change, I would say that old implementations that bind source ports should work without change. It does affect implementations that enforce that the (remote) source port is 4189. According to Christian's mail and references within, the rationale for this does not seem to apply anymore and the use cases have changed/evolved (i.e. there are use cases with 2 ore more PCC 'processes' within a node) There are two potential changes: a) do not restrict source port and b) allow for parallel connections between nodes, the latter no longer being restricted by the former. IMHO a) should be discussed, b) is a more complex change and the implications may be different. A given implementation may (nonconforming-ly) allow different connections from the same IP address (e.g. NAT?) All comments welcome. Thank you R. --------------090002030300060209080506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fei, All,

See my comments inline

On 28/02/2011 7:48, zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn wrote:

We verify the implementation in Linux again , just as Oscar said, different orders give different results.

As a summary: even with the use of socket options, one cannot bind a client socket after binding a listening socket, portably.

In practice this seems to affect GNU/Linux in particular and windows / *BSD seem to work ok, but the fact that e.g. java programs behave differently on different platforms is not good.


Just my two cents, although it MUST be careful to change the description of standards, it seems that we SHOULD do so to cover all kinds of scenarios and for easy implementation if it is necessay.

I tend to agree, this is not something trivial, but we can raise the issue in Prague. Although it is an important change, I would say that old implementations that bind source ports should work without change.

It does affect implementations that enforce that the (remote) source port is 4189.

According to Christian's mail and references within, the rationale for this does not seem to apply anymore and the use cases have changed/evolved (i.e. there are use cases with 2 ore more PCC 'processes' within a node)

There are two potential changes: a) do not restrict source port and b) allow for parallel connections between nodes, the latter no longer being restricted by the former.

IMHO a) should be discussed, b) is a more complex change and the implications may be different. A given implementation may (nonconforming-ly) allow different connections from the same IP address (e.g. NAT?)


All comments welcome.

Thank you

R.
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