    0                   1                   2                  
      3

    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
      8 9 0 1

      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   |   Reserved    |                   Flags              
      |D|S|N|L|

      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   |                     Request-ID-number
      #1                      |

      //                                                             //

   |                     Request-ID-number
      #M                      |

      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    0   =
            &nb=
sp;   1         &nbs=
p;         2    =
;            &n=
bsp;  3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 =
6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |   Reserved    |  &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;   Flags        &nbs=
p;      |D|S|N|L|
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |         &nb=
sp;           Request-ID-=
number #1           =
           |
   //         &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp; //
   |         &nb=
sp;           Request-ID-=
number #M           =
           |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   0                 =
  1                   2 &=
nbsp;                 3
   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 =
9 0 1
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |   Reserved    |         &nb=
sp;         Flags           &n=
bsp;   |D|S|N|L|
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |                  =
   Request-ID-number #1             &nbs=
p;        |
  //                  =
;                     &nb=
sp;                     /=
/
  |                  =
   Request-ID-number #M             &nbs=
p;        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
______________________________________=
_________
Pce mailing list
Pce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce

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From ramon.casellas@cttc.es  Fri Sep 13 00:49:18 2013
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Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions
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Qin,

Please see in-line tagged with Ramon>

El 13/09/2013 9:22, Qin Wu escribi�:
>
> Sounds reasonable, I am wondering whether it is sufficient for just 
> defining one new 'D' flag in the SVEC object? Why 'D' flag was not 
> defined when RFC5440 was documented.
>
> How do I know computed paths don't have any transit domains in common.
>
Ramon> there are several things to consider:

*) the D flag is generic, attached to the SVEC tuple, only to convey a 
group request constraint. This applies regardless of the actual method 
used in computation. We should discuss what are the implications, such 
as "are border nodes allowed (corner case)? Of course, a PCC can also 
play with inclusion and exclusion provided it has the information on the 
interconnection of domains, but I don't see this as a common case.

*) I understood the requirement was scoped to the H-PCE case, where it 
is the responsibility of the p-pce to ensure that they are 
domain-disjoint when selecting the domain sequence for both paths, and 
before segment expansion. How the parent does this I would say it is is 
implementation specific (k-shortest disjoint paths, iterative, etc.)

*) I would say that, without more information, a PCE or PCC cannot 
simply deduce whether two paths don't have any transit domains in 
common, unless this information is conveyed in the path ERO or 
attributes. I was thinking that the use of domain objects could be used
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-domain-sequence-03

if the EROs are "tagged" with domain information, it can be deduced 
whether both EROs are disjoint or not

> Domain diversity is more complicated when computed paths don't even 
> share ingress domain and egress domain.
>
Ramon> I guess we agree :o)

Thanks
R.

--------------000307020001050609090903
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    Qin, 

      Please see in-line tagged with Ramon>

      El 13/09/2013 9:22, Qin Wu escribió:

        Sounds
            reasonable, I am wondering whether it is sufficient for just
            defining one new ‘D’ flag in the SVEC object? Why ‘D’ flag
            was not defined when RFC5440 was documented.
        How
            do I know computed paths don’t have any transit domains in
            common.

    Ramon> there are several things to consider:

    *) the D flag is generic, attached to the SVEC tuple, only to convey
    a group request constraint. This applies regardless of the actual
    method used in computation. We should discuss what are the
    implications, such as "are border nodes allowed (corner case)? Of
    course, a PCC can also play with inclusion and exclusion provided it
    has the information on the interconnection of domains, but I don't
    see this as a common case.

    *) I understood the requirement was scoped to the H-PCE case, where
    it is the responsibility of the p-pce to ensure that they are
    domain-disjoint when selecting the domain sequence for both paths,
    and before segment expansion. How the parent does this I would say
    it is is implementation specific (k-shortest disjoint paths,
    iterative, etc.)

    *) I would say that, without more information, a PCE or PCC cannot
    simply deduce whether two paths don't have any transit domains in
    common, unless this information is conveyed in the path ERO or
    attributes. I was thinking that the use of domain objects could be
    used

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-domain-sequence-03

    if the EROs are "tagged" with domain information, it can be deduced
    whether both EROs are disjoint or not

        Domain
            diversity is more complicated when computed paths don’t even
            share ingress domain and egress domain.

    Ramon> I guess we agree :o)

    Thanks

    R.

--------------000307020001050609090903--

From bill.wu@huawei.com  Fri Sep 13 01:11:05 2013
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From: Qin Wu 
To: Ramon Casellas 
Thread-Topic: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions
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Very good points and clarifications. :-)
Regarding "are border nodes allowed", I think if inter-domain communication=
 is required, the border node should allow, shouldn't it?

Also I am wondering whether this requirement is only applied to H-PCE case?=
 H-PCE could be a typical use case. However I believe SVEC tuple is also ap=
plied to other use cases
Otherwise why RFC5440 specify it In more generic way.

Regards!
-Qin
From: Ramon Casellas [mailto:ramon.casellas@cttc.es]
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 3:49 PM
To: Qin Wu
Cc: pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-h=
ierarchy-extensions

Qin,

Please see in-line tagged with Ramon>

El 13/09/2013 9:22, Qin Wu escribi=F3:
Sounds reasonable, I am wondering whether it is sufficient for just definin=
g one new 'D' flag in the SVEC object? Why 'D' flag was not defined when RF=
C5440 was documented.
How do I know computed paths don't have any transit domains in common.
Ramon> there are several things to consider:

*) the D flag is generic, attached to the SVEC tuple, only to convey a grou=
p request constraint. This applies regardless of the actual method used in =
computation. We should discuss what are the implications, such as "are bord=
er nodes allowed (corner case)? Of course, a PCC can also play with inclusi=
on and exclusion provided it has the information on the interconnection of =
domains, but I don't see this as a common case.

*) I understood the requirement was scoped to the H-PCE case, where it is t=
he responsibility of the p-pce to ensure that they are domain-disjoint when=
 selecting the domain sequence for both paths, and before segment expansion=
. How the parent does this I would say it is is implementation specific (k-=
shortest disjoint paths, iterative, etc.)

*) I would say that, without more information, a PCE or PCC cannot simply d=
educe whether two paths don't have any transit domains in common, unless th=
is information is conveyed in the path ERO or attributes. I was thinking th=
at the use of domain objects could be used
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-domain-sequence-03

if the EROs are "tagged" with domain information, it can be deduced whether=
 both EROs are disjoint or not

Domain diversity is more complicated when computed paths don't even share i=
ngress domain and egress domain.

Ramon> I guess we agree :o)

Thanks
R.

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA43C004A1nkgeml501mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Very good points and clar=
ifications. :-)
Regarding “are bord=
er nodes allowed”, I think if inter-domain communication is required,=
 the border node should allow, shouldn’t it?
 <=
/p>
Also I am wondering wheth=
er this requirement is only applied to H-PCE case? H-PCE could be a typical=
 use case. However I believe SVEC tuple is also applied
 to other use cases
Otherwise why RFC5440 spe=
cify it In more generic way.
 <=
/p>
Regards!
-Qin

From: Ramon Casellas [mailto:ramon.casellas@cttc.es]

Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 3:49 PM

To: Qin Wu

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-iet=
f-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Qin, 

Please see in-line tagged with Ramon>

El 13/09/2013 9:22, Qin Wu escribi=F3:

Sounds reasonable, I am w=
ondering whether it is sufficient for just defining one new ‘D’=
 flag in the SVEC object? Why ‘D’ flag was not defined when RFC=
5440
 was documented.
How do I know computed pa=
ths don’t have any transit domains in common.

Ramon> there are several things to consider:

*) the D flag is generic, attached to the SVEC tuple, only to convey a grou=
p request constraint. This applies regardless of the actual method used in =
computation. We should discuss what are the implications, such as "are=
 border nodes allowed (corner case)?
 Of course, a PCC can also play with inclusion and exclusion provided it ha=
s the information on the interconnection of domains, but I don't see this a=
s a common case.

*) I understood the requirement was scoped to the H-PCE case, where it is t=
he responsibility of the p-pce to ensure that they are domain-disjoint when=
 selecting the domain sequence for both paths, and before segment expansion=
. How the parent does this I would
 say it is is implementation specific (k-shortest disjoint paths, iterative=
, etc.)

*) I would say that, without more information, a PCE or PCC cannot simply d=
educe whether two paths don't have any transit domains in common, unless th=
is information is conveyed in the path ERO or attributes. I was thinking th=
at the use of domain objects could
 be used

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-domain-sequence-03

if the EROs are "tagged" with domain information, it can be deduc=
ed whether both EROs are disjoint or not

Domain diversity is more =
complicated when computed paths don’t even share ingress domain and e=
gress domain.
 <=
/p>
Ramon> I guess we =
agree :o)

Thanks

R.

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA43C004A1nkgeml501mbschi_--

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From: Qin Wu 
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Thread-Topic: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions
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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA43C0056Fnkgeml501mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Qilei:<=
/p>
I think (b) more makes se=
nse. Maybe we further requires both egress node and ingress node belong to =
multiple domains.
 <=
/p>
Regards!
-Qin

From: wang.qil=
ei@zte.com.cn [mailto:wang.qilei@zte.com.cn]

Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 4:25 PM

To: Qin Wu; Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: RE: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-iet=
f-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Qin:

I guess the sentences in section 1.3.2.2 of RFC6805 can answer y=
ou question, I cite them here,

" 

A pair of paths=
 are domain-diverse if they do not transit any of the

  same domains.  A pair of paths that share a common ingress =
and egress

  are domain-diverse if they only share the same domains at the in=
gress

  and egress (the ingress and egress domains).  Domain divers=
ity may be

  maximized for a pair of paths by selecting paths that have the

  smallest number of shared domains.

" 

Thanks 

Qilei Wang

Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>

2013-09-13 15:46

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/p>

"wang.qilei@zte.com.cn" <wang=
.qilei@zte.com.cn>, Ramon Casellas <ramon.casellas@cttc.es>,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

"pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org&=
gt;

=D6=F7=CC=E2

RE: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diver=
sity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Qilei:

For domain diversity, when path computation trav=
erses multiple domains including one ingress domain, multiple transit domai=
ns, one egress domain, there are several cases:

a.       Computation path share n=
one of these domains.

b.      Computation path only sha=
res both  ingress domain and egress domain but not share any transit d=
omains.

c.       Computation path only sh=
ares ingress domain but not share any transit domain and egress domain.

d.      Computation path only sha=
res egress domain but not share any transit domain and ingress domain.

I am wondering which case you are referred to ?<=
/span>

Regards!

-Qin

From: pce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.o=
rg]
On Behalf Of wang.qilei@zte.com.cn

Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 3:27 PM

To: Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-p=
ce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Ramon,

Thank you for pointing the RFC6007 to me. I almost forgot this draft. 

Yeah, you are right. This requirement can be satisfied by two approaches. O=
ne is the 2-step approach which can be addressed by IRO/XRO, and the other =
is the "D flag" in SVEC object in the H-PCE scenario according to=
 your mail.

Just from my opinion, the new flag indicating "domain diverse" in=
 SVEC object is needed in PCEP protocol.

Thanks 

Qilei Wang 

Ramon Casellas <ramon.casellas@cttc.=
es>

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  pce-=
bounces@ietf.org

2013-09-13 12:48

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/p>

pce@ietf.org,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

=D6=F7=CC=E2

Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diver=
sity in        draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Just from my understanding, maybe t=
his requirement can be resolved by extending the PCEP object to indicate &q=
uot;domain-diverse" requirement when PCE computes a pair of dependent =
path at the same time.
When PCC sends path request to child PCE, this requiremen=
t can be indicated in the path request message, and child PCE can forward t=
his requirement indication to the parent PCE. Parent PCE
 has the topology information of domains, so it is able to compute two doma=
in-diverse paths.

Hi Qilei, all

Would, for example, a new bit in the SVEC saying "domain diverse"=
 fulfill such requirement? I was reading
http://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc6007 sect 5.3 that discusses this. The two step can be addressed by I=
RO/XRO and the common H-PCE case could use a D flag. Domain sub-objects are=
 not domain-specific

  0                   1 &=
nbsp;                 2   &nbs=
p;               3

  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 |   Reserved    |           &=
nbsp;       Flags             =
  |D|S|N|L|

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 |                   &nbs=
p; Request-ID-number #1               &n=
bsp;      |

 //                   &nb=
sp;                     &=
nbsp;                   //

 |                   &nbs=
p; Request-ID-number #M               &n=
bsp;      |

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Thoughts?

thanks, R.

_______________________________________________

Pce mailing list

Pce@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce

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From: "Zhangxian (Xian)" 
To: "wang.qilei@zte.com.cn" , Ramon Casellas 
Thread-Topic: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions
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Hi, Qilei,=
 Ramon and all,

 =
;
 &nbs=
p;   I think Ramon provides a straightforward solution to this re=
quirement. But I would like to step back and ask:  whether we should s=
pecify the
 domain diversity in PCEP for H-PCE or not? As we can see not all requireme=
nts specified in H-PCE RFC are accommodated in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-ext=
ensions (e.g., Setion 1.1.).

 =
;
  According to Section 1.3.2  in RFC6805, doma=
in diversity can facilitate path diversity.  If this is the only reaso=
n,
 what currently defined in RFC5440 accommodates this need already, right? I=
f the source node only wants path diversity but specify domain diversity, i=
t may end up with no path available, assume there is one transit domain all=
 paths will have to go through from
 the source domain.  On the other hand, if the source node only specif=
ies path diversity, it may or may not get a domain-diversified path, which =
can be decided by the parent PCE.  

Any thoughts?

 =
;
Regards,
Xian
 =
;

From: pce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of wang.qilei@zte.com.cn

Sent: 2013=C4=EA9=D4=C213=C8=
=D5
 15:27

To: Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-iet=
f-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Ramon,

Thank you for pointing the RFC6007 to me. =
I almost forgot this draft.

Yeah, you are right. This requirement can =
be satisfied by two approaches. One is the 2-step approach which can be add=
ressed by IRO/XRO, and the other is the "D flag" in SVEC
 object in the H-PCE scenario according to your mail. 

Just from my opinion, the new flag indicat=
ing "domain diverse" in SVEC object is needed in PCEP protocol.

Thanks

Qilei Wang

Ramon Casellas <ramon=
.casellas@cttc.es>

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  pce-bounces@ietf.org

2013-09-13 12:48

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/o:p>

pce@ietf.org,

=B3=AD=CB=CD<=
/span>

=D6=F7=CC=E2<=
/span>

Re: [Pce] A comment regardi=
ng domain diversity in        draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-=
extensions

=

Just from my understanding,
maybe this requireme=
nt can be resolved by extending the PCEP object to indicate "domain-di=
verse" requirement when PCE computes a pair of dependent path at the s=
ame time.
When PCC sends path request to child PCE, =
this requirement can be indicated in the path request message, and child PC=
E can forward this requirement indication to the parent
 PCE. Parent PCE has the topology information of domains, so it is able to =
compute two domain-diverse paths.

Hi Qilei, all

Would, for example, a new bit in the SVEC saying "domain diverse"=
 fulfill such requirement? I was reading
http://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc6007 sect 5.3 that discusses this. The two step can be addressed by I=
RO/XRO and the common H-PCE case could use a D flag. Domain sub-objects are=
 not domain-specific

   0                 =
  1                   2 &=
nbsp;                 3

   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 =
9 0 1

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  |   Reserved    |         &nb=
sp;         Flags           &n=
bsp;   |D|S|N|L|

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  |                  =
   Request-ID-number #1             &nbs=
p;        |

  //                  =
;                     &nb=
sp;                     /=
/

  |                  =
   Request-ID-number #M             &nbs=
p;        |

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&=
#43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Thoughts?

thanks, R.

________________=
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Pce mailing list

Pce@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li=
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From: "Zhangxian (Xian)" 
To: "wang.qilei@zte.com.cn" 
Thread-Topic: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:50:28 +0000
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Hi, Qilei,

 =
;
  &nb=
sp;Glad to see we at least share the understanding that not all requirement=
s need to be met.

 =
;
But what I meant in the previous email is we need to dig=
 out more of the motivation to specify domain diversity. Is
 it just for path diversity? If so, RFC5440 supports already. Don=A1=AFt yo=
u agree? 

Of course, there may be other reasons which I am not awa=
re of. That=A1=AFs what I would like to know more.    <=
/o:p>
 =
;
Regards,
Xian<=
/o:p>
 =
;

From: wang.qilei@zte.com.cn [mailto:wang.qilei@zte.com.cn]

Sent: 2013=C4=EA9=D4=C216=C8=
=D5
 16:26

To: Zhangxian (Xian); Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-iet=
f-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Xian,

Thanks, please see my reply in-line.

Qilei Wang

"Zhangxian (Xian)&q=
uot; <zhang.xian@huawei.com>

2013-09-16 15:45

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/o:p>

"wang.qilei@zte.com.cn=
" <wang.qilei@zte.com.cn>, Ramon Casellas <ramon.casellas@ctt=
c.es>,

=B3=AD=CB=CD<=
/span>

"pce@ietf.org" &l=
t;pce@ietf.org>

=D6=F7=CC=E2<=
/span>

RE: [Pce] A comment regardi=
ng domain diversity in        draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-=
extensions

=

Hi, Qilei, Ramon and all,

     I thin=
k Ramon provides a straightforward solution to this requirement. But I woul=
d like to step back and ask:  whether we should specify the domain div=
ersity
 in PCEP for H-PCE or not? As we can see not all requirements specified in =
H-PCE RFC are accommodated in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions (e.g., Se=
tion 1.1.).

[Qilei]: I can understand why =
the functions listed in section 1.1 are out of the scope of this draft, may=
be because of BGP-TE and/or interior implementation. But
 I can't really know the reason why domain diversity does not fit in PCEP f=
or H-PCE. Can you offer me more reasons here? Or maybe we can further discu=
ss about this.

  According to Sectio=
n 1.3.2  in RFC6805, domain diversity can facilitate path diversity. &=
nbsp;If this is the only reason, what currently defined in RFC5440 accommod=
ates
 this need already, right? 

[Qilei]:  How could the R=
FC5440 satisfy this need?

If the source node only wa=
nts path diversity but specify domain diversity, it may end up with no path=
 available, assume there is one transit domain all paths
 will have to go through from the source domain.  On the other hand, i=
f the source node only specifies path diversity, it may or may not get a do=
main-diversified path, which can be decided by the parent PCE.  

[Qilei]: I agree with your ana=
lysis. It may end up with no path available, but it is still the computatio=
n result of the PCE. Just from my opinion, we should firstly
 focus on the requirement whether we should specify the domain diversity in=
 PCEP for H-PCE or not, as you addressed at the beginning.

Any thoughts?

Regards,

Xian

From: pce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of wang.qilei@zte.com.cn

Sent: 2013=C4=EA9=D4=C213=C8=D5
 15:27

To: Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-p=
ce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Ramon,

Thank you for pointing the RFC6007 to me. I almost forgot this draft.

Yeah, you are right. This requirement can be satisfied by two approaches. O=
ne is the 2-step approach which can be addressed by IRO/XRO, and the other =
is the "D flag" in SVEC object in the H-PCE scenario according to=
 your mail.

Just from my opinion, the new flag indicating "domain diverse" in=
 SVEC object is needed in PCEP protocol.

Thanks 

Qilei Wang 

Ramon Casellas <ramon=
.casellas@cttc.es>

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  pce-bounces@ietf.org

2013-09-13 12:48

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/o:p>

pce@ietf.org,

=B3=AD=CB=CD<=
/span>

=D6=F7=CC=E2<=
/span>

Re: [Pce] A comment regardi=
ng domain diversity in        draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-=
extensions

Just from my understanding, maybe this requirement can be resolved by extending the PCEP object=
 to indicate "domain-diverse" requirement when PCE computes a pai=
r of dependent path at the same time.
When PCC sends path request to child PCE, =
this requirement can be indicated in the path request message, and child PC=
E can forward this requirement indication to the parent
 PCE. Parent PCE has the topology information of domains, so it is able to =
compute two domain-diverse paths.

Hi Qilei, all

Would, for example, a new bit in the SVEC saying "domain diverse"=
 fulfill such requirement? I was reading
http://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc6007 sect 5.3 that discusses this. The two step can be addressed by I=
RO/XRO and the common H-PCE case could use a D flag. Domain sub-objects are=
 not domain-specific

  0                   1 &=
nbsp;                 2   &nbs=
p;               3

  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 |   Reserved    |           &=
nbsp;       Flags             =
  |D|S|N|L|

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 |                   &nbs=
p; Request-ID-number #1               &n=
bsp;      |

 //                   &nb=
sp;                     &=
nbsp;                   //

 |                   &nbs=
p; Request-ID-number #M               &n=
bsp;      |

 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Thoughts?

thanks, R.

_______________________________________________

Pce mailing list

Pce@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/pce

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From wwwrun@rfc-editor.org  Tue Sep 17 19:17:36 2013
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, pce@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Subject: [Pce] RFC 7025 on Requirements for GMPLS Applications of PCE
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        RFC 7025

        Title:      Requirements for GMPLS Applications of PCE 
        Author:     T. Otani, K. Ogaki,
                    D. Caviglia, F. Zhang,
                    C. Margaria
        Status:     Informational
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       September 2013
        Mailbox:    tm-otani@kddi.com, 
                    ke-oogaki@kddi.com, 
                    diego.caviglia@ericsson.com,
                    zhangfatai@huawei.com, 
                    cyril.margaria@coriant.com
        Pages:      12
        Characters: 26498
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-aps-req-09.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7025.txt

The initial effort of the PCE (Path Computation Element) WG focused
mainly on MPLS.  As a next step, this document describes functional
requirements for GMPLS applications of PCE.

This document is a product of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community.
It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.

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The RFC Editor Team
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From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Tue Sep 24 20:34:18 2013
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Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-app-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group of=
 the IETF.

	Title           : Applicability of Stateful Path Computation Element (PCE)
	Author(s)       : Xian Zhang
                          Ina Minei
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-app-01.txt
	Pages           : 25
	Date            : 2013-09-24

Abstract:
   A stateful Path Computation Element (PCE) maintains information about
   Label Switched Path (LSP) characteristics and resource usage within a
   network in order to provide traffic engineering calculations for its
   associated Path Computation Clients (PCCs).  This document describes
   general considerations for a stateful PCE deployment and examines its
   applicability and benefits, as well as its challenges and limitations
   through a number of use cases.  Path Computation Element Protocol
   (PCEP) extensions required for stateful PCE usage are covered in
   separate documents.

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-app

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-app-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-app-01

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

From zhang.xian@huawei.com  Tue Sep 24 20:44:33 2013
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From: Dhruv Dhody 
To: "pce@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Domain Diversity [draft-dwpz-pce-domain-diverse-00] (was [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions)
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 05:04:12 +0000
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Subject: [Pce] Domain Diversity [draft-dwpz-pce-domain-diverse-00] (was A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions)
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--_000_23CE718903A838468A8B325B80962F9B448A9365szxeml556mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi WG,<=
/p>
 <=
/p>
We have jotted down some =
thoughts regarding domain diversity in a draft [http://www=
.ietf.org/id/draft-dwpz-pce-domain-diverse-00.txt].

Welcome any comments / fe=
edback?
 <=
/p>
Regards,
Dhruv (on behalf of co-au=
thors/contributes)

 <=
/p>
--------------------------=
-------------------------------------
Dhruv Dhody

System Architect,

Huawei Technologies India =
Pvt. Ltd.,
Banagalore
Mobile: +91-9845062422=

This e-mail and its attach=
ments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which

is intended only for the p=
erson or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the

information contained here=
in in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial

disclosure, reproduction, =
or dissemination) by persons other than the intended

recipient(s) is prohibited=
. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by

phone or email immediately=
 and delete it!
 <=
/p>

From: pce-boun=
ces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of wang.qilei@zte.com.cn

Sent: 16 September 2013 15:13

To: Zhangxian (Xian); Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-iet=
f-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Xian,<=
/span>

Do you mean the scenario that domain diversity can be used in?

I can understand domain diversity can facilitate path diversity,=
 and I also agree RFC5440 supports path diversity, but I don't know how RFC=
5440 could support domain diversity? That's what I am
 confused with.  I'm not sure if I have right understanding about your=
 reply, can you explain more?

Thanks 

Qilei Wang

"Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>=

2013-09-16 16:50

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/p>

"wang.qilei@zte.com.cn" <wang.qilei@zte.com.cn>,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

"pce@=
ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>=
, Ramon Casellas <ramon.casell=
as@cttc.es>

=D6=F7=CC=E2

RE: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diver=
sity in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Qilei,

   Glad to see we at least share the u=
nderstanding that not all requirements need to be met.

But what I meant in the previous email is we nee=
d to dig out more of the motivation to specify domain diversity. Is it just=
 for path diversity? If so, RFC5440 supports already.
 Don=A1=AFt you agree? 

Of course, there may be other reasons which I am=
 not aware of. That=A1=AFs what I would like to know more.    

Regards,

Xian

From:
wang.qilei@zte.com.cn [=
mailto:wang.qilei@zte.=
com.cn]

Sent: 2013=C4=EA=
9=
=D4=C216=C8=D5
 16:26

To: Zhangxian (Xian); Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-p=
ce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Xian, 

Thanks, please see my reply in-line. 

Qilei Wang 

"Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>=

2013-09-16 15:45

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/p>

"wang.qilei@zte.com.cn" <wang.qilei@zte.com.cn>, Ramon Casellas <ramon.casellas@cttc.es>,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

"pce@=
ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>=

=D6=F7=CC=E2

RE: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diver=
sity in        draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Qilei, Ramon and all, 

    I think Ramon provides a straightforward solution to this req=
uirement. But I would like to step back and ask:  whether we should sp=
ecify the domain diversity in PCEP for H-PCE or not? As we can see not all =
requirements specified in H-PCE RFC are accommodated
 in draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions (e.g., Setion 1.1.). 

[Qilei]: I can understand why the functions listed in section 1.1 are out o=
f the scope of this draft, maybe because of BGP-TE and/or interior implemen=
tation. But I can't really know the reason why domain diversity does not fi=
t in PCEP for H-PCE. Can you offer
 me more reasons here? Or maybe we can further discuss about this. <=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#004080">

 According to Section 1.3.2  in RFC6805, domain diversity can fac=
ilitate path diversity.  If this is the only reason, what currently de=
fined in RFC5440 accommodates this need already, right?

[Qilei]:  How could the RFC5440 satisfy this need? 

If the source node only wants path diversity but specify domain diversity, =
it may end up with no path available, assume there is one transit domain al=
l paths will have to go through from the source domain.  On the other =
hand, if the source node only specifies
 path diversity, it may or may not get a domain-diversified path, which can=
 be decided by the parent PCE.  

[Qilei]: I agree with your analysis. It may end up with no path available, =
but it is still the computation result of the PCE. Just from my opinion, we=
 should firstly focus on the requirement whether we should specify the doma=
in diversity in PCEP for H-PCE or
 not, as you addressed at the beginning. 

Any thoughts? 

Regards, 

Xian 

From:
pce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.o=
rg]
On Behalf Of wang.qilei@zte=
.com.cn

Sent: 2013=C4=EA=
9=
=D4=C213=C8=D5
 15:27

To: Ramon Casellas

Cc: pce@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diversity in draft-ietf-p=
ce-hierarchy-extensions

Hi, Ramon, 

Thank you for pointing the RFC6007 to me. I almost forgot this draft. 

Yeah, you are right. This requirement can be satisfied by two approaches. O=
ne is the 2-step approach which can be addressed by IRO/XRO, and the other =
is the "D flag" in SVEC object in the H-PCE scenario according to=
 your mail.

Just from my opinion, the new flag indicating "domain diverse" in=
 SVEC object is needed in PCEP protocol.

Thanks 

Qilei Wang 

Ramon Casellas <ramon.casellas@cttc.es>

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  pce-bounces@ietf.org

2013-09-13 12:48

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<=
/p>

pce@ietf.o=
rg,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

=D6=F7=CC=E2

Re: [Pce] A comment regarding domain diver=
sity in        draft-ietf-pce-hierarchy-extensions

Just from my understanding, maybe t=
his requirement can be resolved by extending the PCEP object to indicate &q=
uot;domain-diverse" requirement when PCE computes a pair of dependent =
path at the same time.
When PCC sends path request to child PCE, this requiremen=
t can be indicated in the path request message, and child PCE can forward t=
his requirement indication to the parent PCE. Parent PCE
 has the topology information of domains, so it is able to compute two doma=
in-diverse paths.

Hi Qilei, all

Would, for example, a new bit in the SVEC saying "domain diverse"=
 fulfill such requirement? I was reading
http://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc6007 sect 5.3 that discusses this. The two step can be addressed by I=
RO/XRO and the common H-PCE case could use a D flag. Domain sub-objects are=
 not domain-specific

 0                   1 &n=
bsp;                 2    =
;               3

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|   Reserved    |             =
      Flags              =
 |D|S|N|L|

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|                     Req=
uest-ID-number #1                 &=
nbsp;    |

//                     &n=
bsp;                     =
                  //

|                     Req=
uest-ID-number #M                 &=
nbsp;    |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Thoughts?

thanks, R.

_______________________________________________

Pce mailing list

Pce@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce

--_000_23CE718903A838468A8B325B80962F9B448A9365szxeml556mbschi_--

From adrian@olddog.co.uk  Fri Sep 27 03:04:43 2013
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From: "Adrian Farrel" 
To: 
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:04:26 +0100
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Subject: [Pce] Your help with an errata report on RBNF in RFC 5557
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Some time back Cyril raised an Errata Report against RFC 5557
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=3672

The essence of his report is that message definitions in RFCs should include all
elements of RBNF from the messages as defined in previous RFCs.

Discussion of this point led to a debate about whether the RBNF is normative and
should be "compilable". Some hold the view that being conservative in what you
send and liberal in what you receive could only make this text normative for
building messages not parsing them. Others noted that, as with RSVP, the object
ordering is advisory not mandatory except as where noted explicitly in the text.

It is also worth noting that as various documents are developed in parallel,
getting the RBNF right in the RFCs might require last-minute edits in Auth48
which is undesirable for a host of reasons. Others observed that there is no
expectation that authors will read RFC in numeric order and that the RBNF for a
new feature in PCEP applies to how that feature is added.

All this led to http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cmfg-pce-pcep-grammar/
which is an experiment to determine whether it is possible to derive an
aggregated RBNF description for all PCEP messages. This might (if successful) go
on to form a type of message registry to act as a stable reference point.

With all this in mind, I propose to reject the current report.

Does anyone object.

Thanks,
Adrian