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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 22:04:18 -0000
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Cc: 'Joydeep Banerjee' <joydeepb.2009@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] 'Re: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-00'
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Hi All,=20

=20

Unfortunately the contents of the email from Joydeep was removed when it =
arrived at the list. Below is the original message/question. If the =
segment routing authors could respond, I am sure it would be =
appreciated.=20

=20

BR, Dan.=20

=20

>>=20

From: Joydeep Banerjee joydeepb.2009@gmail.com =
<mailto:joydeepb.2009@gmail.com>=20

Re: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-00

=20

Sec 5.1.1.1 - Exchanging SR Capability - number of SID (MSD value) is =
negotiated at the PCEP session level. This is initiated only by the head =
end PCC based on its data plane capability. However shouldn't it also =
account for the finite label stacking ability of MPLS data plane for =
transit routers? Let us assume, head end PCC (say S) can handle a MPLS =
label stack depth of 10 (i.e. MSD =3D 10), so PCEP sessions is initiated =
by S with OPEN message carrying SR-PCE-CAPABILITY MSD =3D 10 to SR =
capable PCE of its choice. Next S has a requirement to get a SR TE path =
to destination D and consults SR capable PCE. PCE gets back to S with a =
label stack of 7 (less that MSD of 10). So S appends 7 SIDs from SR-ERO =
in LIFO order to the outgoing packets to C (the next SR enabled router =
towards D). C pops the topmost label and tries to forwards the packet, =
but it appears that it's data plane can't support more than 2 MPLS label =
stack. So C drops the packets.

=20

How do you handle the scenario?

<<=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi All, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Unfortunately the contents of the email from =
Joydeep was removed when it arrived at the list. Below is the original =
message/question. If the segment routing authors could respond, I am =
sure it would be appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>BR, Dan. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>From: Joydeep Banerjee <a =
href=3D"mailto:joydeepb.2009@gmail.com">joydeepb.2009@gmail.com</a><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Re: =
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-00<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Sec 5.1.1.1 - Exchanging SR Capability - =
number of SID (MSD value) is negotiated at the PCEP session level. This =
is initiated only by the head end PCC based on its data plane =
capability. However shouldn't it also account for the finite label =
stacking ability of MPLS data plane for transit routers? Let us assume, =
head end PCC (say S) can handle a MPLS label stack depth of 10 (i.e. MSD =
=3D 10), so PCEP sessions is initiated by S with OPEN message carrying =
SR-PCE-CAPABILITY MSD =3D 10 to SR capable PCE of its choice. Next S has =
a requirement to get a SR TE path to destination D and consults SR =
capable PCE. PCE gets back to S with a label stack of 7 (less that MSD =
of 10). So S appends 7 SIDs from SR-ERO in LIFO order to the outgoing =
packets to C (the next SR enabled router towards D). C pops the topmost =
label and tries to forwards the packet, but it appears that it's data =
plane can't support more than 2 MPLS label stack. So C drops the =
packets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>How do you handle the =
scenario?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>&lt;&lt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></b=
ody></html>
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01D0546B.AB09BB80--


From nobody Sun Mar  1 20:18:29 2015
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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.dhody@huawei.com>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pcep-service-aware-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pcep-service-aware-07.txt
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Hi WG,

This version does some editorial changes/cleanup and no procedure/functiona=
lity has been changed.

We feel the document is stable and ready for WG LC. Its companion documents=
 in OSPF is in AUTH48.

Regards,
Dhruv (on behalf of authors/contributors)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf=
.org
> Sent: 27 February 2015 14:02
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: pce@ietf.org
> Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pcep-service-aware-07.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>  This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group =
of
> the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Extensions to the Path Computation Element
> Communication Protocol (PCEP) to compute service aware Label Switched Pat=
h
> (LSP).
>         Authors         : Dhruv Dhody
>                           Qin Wu
>                           Vishwas Manral
>                           Zafar Ali
>                           Kenji Kumaki
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-pcep-service-aware-07.txt
> 	Pages           : 27
> 	Date            : 2015-02-27
>=20
> Abstract:
>    In certain networks like financial information network (stock/
>    commodity trading) and enterprises using cloud based applications,
>    Latency (delay), Latency Variation (jitter) and Packet Loss are
>    becoming key requirements for path computation along with other
>    constraints and metrics.  These metrics are associated with the
>    Service Level Agreement (SLA) between customers and service
>    providers.  The Link Bandwidth Utilization (the total bandwidth of a
>    link in current use for the forwarding) is another important factor
>    to consider during path computation.
>=20
>    IGP Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric extensions describes mechanisms
>    with which network performance information is distributed via OSPF
>    and IS-IS respectively.  The Path Computation Element Communication
>    Protocol (PCEP) provides mechanisms for Path Computation Elements
>    (PCEs) to perform path computations in response to Path Computation
>    Clients (PCCs) requests.  This document describes the extension to
>    PCEP to carry Latency, Latency Variation, Packet Loss, and Link
>    Bandwidth Utilization as constraints for end to end path computation.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-service-aware/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-service-aware-07
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-pcep-service-aware-07
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Pce mailing list
> Pce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce


From nobody Tue Mar  3 17:52:32 2015
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Subject: [Pce] RFC 7470 on Conveying Vendor-Specific Constraints in the Path Computation Element Communication Protocol
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7470

        Title:      Conveying Vendor-Specific Constraints in the 
                    Path Computation Element Communication Protocol 
        Author:     F. Zhang, A. Farrel
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       March 2015
        Mailbox:    zhangfatai@huawei.com, 
                    adrian@olddog.co.uk
        Pages:      14
        Characters: 28647
        Obsoletes:  RFC 7150

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-pce-rfc7150bis-01.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7470

The Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) is used to
convey path computation requests and responses both between Path
Computation Clients (PCCs) and Path Computation Elements (PCEs) and
between cooperating PCEs.  In PCEP, the path computation requests carry
details of the constraints and objective functions that the PCC wishes
the PCE to apply in its computation.

This document defines a facility to carry vendor-specific information
in PCEP using a dedicated object and a new Type-Length-Value (TLV) that
can be carried in any PCEP object that supports TLVs.

This document obsoletes RFC 7150.  The only changes from that document
are a clarification of the use of the new Type-Length-Value and the allocation
of a different code point for the VENDOR-INFORMATION object.

This document is a product of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
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standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution of this 
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Secure Transport for PCEP
        Authors         : Diego R. Lopez
                          Oscar Gonzalez de Dios
                          Qin Wu
                          Dhruv Dhody
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-pceps-03.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2015-03-04

Abstract:
   The Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) defines
   the mechanisms for the communication between a Path Computation
   Client (PCC) and a Path Computation Element (PCE), or among PCEs.
   This document describe the usage of Transport Layer Security (TLS) to
   enhance PCEP security, hence the PCEPS acronym proposed for it.  The
   additional security mechanisms are provided by the transport protocol
   supporting PCEP, and therefore they do not affect the flexibility and
   extensibility of PCEP.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pceps/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pceps-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-pceps-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.dhody@huawei.com>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-03.txt
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Hi WG,

The authors have taken another editorial pass at the document, no procedure=
/functionality has been changed in this update.=20

We feel the document is stable and ready for WG LC.=20

Regards,
Dhruv (on behalf of authors)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf=
.org
> Sent: 05 March 2015 11:17
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: pce@ietf.org
> Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-03.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>  This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group =
of
> the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Secure Transport for PCEP
>         Authors         : Diego R. Lopez
>                           Oscar Gonzalez de Dios
>                           Qin Wu
>                           Dhruv Dhody
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-pceps-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 15
> 	Date            : 2015-03-04
>=20
> Abstract:
>    The Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) defines
>    the mechanisms for the communication between a Path Computation
>    Client (PCC) and a Path Computation Element (PCE), or among PCEs.
>    This document describe the usage of Transport Layer Security (TLS) to
>    enhance PCEP security, hence the PCEPS acronym proposed for it.  The
>    additional security mechanisms are provided by the transport protocol
>    supporting PCEP, and therefore they do not affect the flexibility and
>    extensibility of PCEP.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pceps/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pceps-03
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-pceps-03
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Pce mailing list
> Pce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce


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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.dhody@huawei.com>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
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--_000_23CE718903A838468A8B325B80962F9B870516B7BLREML509MBXchi_
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Hi Sergio,

[Adding WG in CC list]

Thanks for your mail, see inline...

From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
To: Leeyoung; Dhruv Dhody; Daniele Ceccarelli
Cc: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-=
te-data-extn-01,

Hi Young, Druhv, Daniele

as promised I have some comments/clarifications to send after the meeting i=
n Honolulu.
In general , as I've already said to Young after presentation, I consider t=
he intention to find alternative method to IGP listening to feed TE topolog=
y information into PCE a very important issue and the drafts are very usefu=
l .
Going into the drafts specifically , about the first draft-lee-pce-transpor=
ting-te-data-01.txt  :


1)      In the second architecture option is considered as possible interme=
diate entity an NMS ? NMS can simple retrieve topology by usual p2p request=
 to nodes.
[Dhruv]: The document does not make any assumption on the intermediate syst=
em that implements the pub/sub paradigm; BUT IMHO I don't see intermediate =
entity as an NMS, I see it more like a special PCE with pub/sub functionali=
ty (like RR in case of BGP).

2)      In the third architecture , PCEs to share information among the oth=
er PCEs in the domain need to have routing protocol . this does not permit =
to have a simplified implementation of PCE (since it does not need to "list=
en" from network nodes no routing instance on board) . Is it correct my fee=
ling?
[Dhruv]: For PCE that share TED information to other PCEs, it can use the s=
ame PCEP TED population mechanism that is used by the node (PCC) to PCE. Th=
us the PCEP extn should be extensible to handle PCE-PCE TED exchange. We do=
 not want the dependence on the routing protocol.


For the draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-01 :

*         In 9.2.4 TE Node Descriptor Sub-TLVs is said at the last bullet "=
There can be at most one instance of each sub-TLV type present in any Node =
Descriptor". But what does it mean : e.g. if one does not implement  BGP-LS=
 why you would need to put this type of sub-tlv? Or there is a specific val=
ue to put in case you don't' use the sub-TLV?

[Dhruv]: The statement means that you should not repeat the same sub-TLV tw=
ice. All SUB-TLV are not mandatory, that is, you should include the sub-TLV=
 only if needed; so BGP-LS sub-tlv should be added only if the node impleme=
nts BGP-LS. I can update text to reflect that.

*         9.2.5 : the chapter report  a table with only specific column for=
 IS-IS , and relative value defined for the sub-tlv. What about if you do n=
ot use IS-IS . Moreover the last part  of the paragraph talked about the in=
formation present in the LSA/LSP originated by local node, and these inform=
ation determine the set of sub-TLvs in the link. But what is the relationsh=
ip with the just above table? Are there other not mentioned sub-TLVs to inc=
lude? Not totally clear what information is referring to.

[Dhruv]: PCEP will get its own code points, those are in column 1 with TBD;=
 the IS-IS column is to let the reader find the corresponding already-defin=
ed-TLV, since we do not want to repeat the format and fields of each of the=
 TLV again in this document. Similar principle is followed by BGP-LS. This =
does not mean the implementation must have IS-IS enabled to use this extens=
ion.

*         9.2.6: Why again a sub-TLV specific for IS-IS ? Moreover even if =
the draft does not mandate any particular choice of routing protocol, is co=
ntinuosly referring to BGP-LS , like a translation of BGP-LS sub-TLV into P=
CEP.

[Dhruv]: see above.

*         9.2.7 : is this TLV optional as for the Node Attributes TLV? If y=
es this would be explicitly said. In the table the is only mention of value=
s referred to IS-IS or BGP-LS, what about OSPF-TE?
[Dhruv]:We are refereeing to IS-IS and BGP-LS for the TLV format, it has no=
 dependency on the actual protocol. Since the TLV format is the same there =
is no reason to also mention OSPF here. Following text in the document stat=
es this -
The format and semantics of the 'value' fields in most 'Link
   Descriptor' sub-TLVs correspond to the format and semantics of value
   fields in IS-IS Extended IS Reachability sub-TLVs, defined in
   [RFC5305], [RFC5307] and [RFC6119].  Although the encodings for 'Link
   Descriptor' TLVs were originally defined for IS-IS, the TLVs can
   carry data sourced either by IS-IS or OSPF or direct.

We have also updated the extension document, see - http://www.ietf.org/id/d=
raft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02.txt

Regards,
Dhruv

Thanks in advance for any clarifications you would provide .

Sergio




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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Adding WG in CC list]<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks for your mail, see inline&#8230;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> BELOTTI,=
 SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
<br>
<b>To:</b> Leeyoung; Dhruv Dhody; Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
<b>Cc:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt draft-dhodylee-pc=
e-pcep-te-data-extn-01,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Young, Druhv, Daniele<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">as promised I have some comments/clarifications to s=
end after the meeting in Honolulu.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In general , as I&#8217;ve already said to Young aft=
er presentation, I consider the intention to find alternative method to IGP=
 listening to feed TE topology information into PCE a very important issue =
and the drafts are very useful .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Going into the drafts specifically , about the first=
 draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>In the second architecture option is considered as =
possible intermediate entity an NMS ? NMS can simple retrieve topology by u=
sual p2p request to nodes.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: The document does not make any as=
sumption on the intermediate system that implements the pub/sub paradigm; B=
UT IMHO I don&#8217;t see intermediate entity as an NMS, I see
 it more like a special PCE with pub/sub functionality (like RR in case of =
BGP). <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>In the third architecture , PCEs to share informati=
on among the other PCEs in the domain need to have routing protocol . this =
does not permit to have a simplified implementation of PCE (since it does n=
ot need to &#8220;listen&#8221; from network
 nodes no routing instance on board) . Is it correct my feeling? &nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: For PCE that share TED informatio=
n to other PCEs, it can use the same PCEP TED population mechanism that is =
used by the node (PCC) to PCE. Thus the PCEP extn should
 be extensible to handle PCE-PCE TED exchange. We do not want the dependenc=
e on the routing protocol.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-01 :<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">In 9.2.4 TE Node Descriptor Sub=
-TLVs is said at the last bullet &#8220;There can be at most one instance o=
f each sub-TLV type present in any Node Descriptor&#8221;. But what
 does it mean : e.g. if one does not implement&nbsp; BGP-LS why you would n=
eed to put this type of sub-tlv? Or there is a specific value to put in cas=
e you don&#8217;t&#8217; use the sub-TLV?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Candara&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: The statement=
 means that you should not repeat the same sub-TLV twice. All SUB-TLV are n=
ot mandatory, that is, you should include the sub-TLV only
 if needed; so BGP-LS sub-tlv should be added only if the node implements B=
GP-LS. I can update text to reflect that.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">9.2.5 : the chapter report&nbsp=
; a table with only specific column for IS-IS , and relative value defined =
for the sub-tlv. What about if you do not use IS-IS . Moreover
 the last part &nbsp;of the paragraph talked about the information present =
in the LSA/LSP originated by local node, and these information determine th=
e set of sub-TLvs in the link. But what is the relationship with the just a=
bove table? Are there other not mentioned
 sub-TLVs to include? Not totally clear what information is referring to. <=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Candara&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: PCEP will get=
 its own code points, those are in column 1 with TBD; the IS-IS column is t=
o let the reader find the corresponding already-defined-TLV,
 since we do not want to repeat the format and fields of each of the TLV ag=
ain in this document. Similar principle is followed by BGP-LS. This does no=
t mean the implementation must have IS-IS enabled to use this extension.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">9.2.6: Why again a sub-TLV spec=
ific for IS-IS ? Moreover even if the draft does not mandate any particular=
 choice of routing protocol, is continuosly referring
 to BGP-LS , like a translation of BGP-LS sub-TLV into PCEP.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Candara&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: see above.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">9.2.7 : is this TLV optional as=
 for the Node Attributes TLV? If yes this would be explicitly said. In the =
table the is only mention of values referred to IS-IS
 or BGP-LS, what about OSPF-TE?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]:We are refereeing to IS-IS and BGP=
-LS for the TLV format, it has no dependency on the actual protocol. Since =
the TLV format is the same there is no reason to also mention
 OSPF here. Following text in the document states this &#8211; <o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The format and semantics of t=
he 'value' fields in most 'Link<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Descriptor' sub-=
TLVs correspond to the format and semantics of value<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; fields in IS-IS =
Extended IS Reachability sub-TLVs, defined in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC5305], [RFC5=
307] and [RFC6119].&nbsp; Although the encodings for 'Link<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Descriptor' TLVs=
 were originally defined for IS-IS, the TLVs can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; carry data sourc=
ed either by IS-IS or OSPF or direct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">We have also updated the extension documen=
t, see -
<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02.t=
xt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02.txt</a><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dhruv<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks in advance for any clarifications you would p=
rovide .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sergio<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_23CE718903A838468A8B325B80962F9B870516B7BLREML509MBXchi_--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : PCEP Extensions for PCE-initiated LSP Setup in a Stateful PCE Model
        Authors         : Edward Crabbe
                          Ina Minei
                          Siva Sivabalan
                          Robert Varga
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2015-03-05

Abstract:
   The Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) provides
   mechanisms for Path Computation Elements (PCEs) to perform path
   computations in response to Path Computation Clients (PCCs) requests.

   The extensions for stateful PCE provide stateful control of
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering Label
   Switched Paths (TE LSP) via PCEP, for a model where the PCC delegates
   control over one or more locally configured LSPs to the PCE.  This
   document describes the creation and deletion of PCE-initiated LSPs
   under the stateful PCE model.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From nobody Fri Mar  6 00:45:35 2015
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 09:45:29 +0100
From: <julien.meuric@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Poll on draft-dhody-pce-iro-update-02
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Hi all.

Considering both the supporting feedback about the associated survey and 
the absence of objection, we can proceed with this resulting I-D. 
Authors, please publish the same document as draft-ietf-pce-iro-update-00

Thanks,

JP & Julien


Jan. 12, 2015 - julien.meuric@orange.com:
> Dear PCE WG,
>
> Following our previous discussions on IRO within PCEP, do you agree 
> with the adoption of draft-dhody-pce-iro-update-02 as a PCE WG I-D? 
> Please share your comments using the mailing list, justifying as much 
> as possible in case you are opposed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JP & Julien
>


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From nobody Fri Mar  6 05:26:33 2015
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Update to Include Route Object (IRO) specification in Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP)
        Author          : Dhruv Dhody
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-iro-update-00.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2015-03-06

Abstract:
   During discussions of a document to provide a standard representation
   and encoding of Domain-Sequence within the Path Computation Element
   (PCE) communication Protocol (PCEP) for communications between a Path
   Computation Client (PCC) and a PCE, or between two PCEs.  It was
   determined that there was a need for clarification with respect to
   the ordered nature of the Include Route Object (IRO).

   An informal survey was conducted to determine the state of current
   and planned implementation with respect to IRO ordering and handling
   of Loose bit (L bit).

   This document updates the IRO specification based on the survey
   conclusion and recommendation.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-iro-update/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-iro-update-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Fri Mar  6 05:44:45 2015
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Update to Include Route Object (IRO) specification in Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP)
        Author          : Dhruv Dhody
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-iro-update-01.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2015-03-06

Abstract:
   During discussions of a document to provide a standard representation
   and encoding of Domain-Sequence within the Path Computation Element
   (PCE) communication Protocol (PCEP) for communications between a Path
   Computation Client (PCC) and a PCE, or between two PCEs.  It was
   determined that there was a need for clarification with respect to
   the ordered nature of the Include Route Object (IRO).

   An informal survey was conducted to determine the state of current
   and planned implementation with respect to IRO ordering and handling
   of Loose bit (L bit).

   This document updates the IRO specification based on the survey
   conclusion and recommendation.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-iro-update/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-iro-update-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-iro-update-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Fri Mar  6 15:40:15 2015
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02,
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 23:39:49 +0000
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Subject: [Pce] draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02,
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Hi all,

We have updated this draft. Here's new version pointer.

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn/

Major changes are:

-          Security and Manageability sections enhancement

-          Make this experimental track from a standard track.

In the last meeting, quite a few were interested in this draft, but there w=
as also some objection for this work to move on.
As we are proposing this work to be an experimental draft, we hope objectio=
n would be lifted.

Thanks,
Young & Dhruv

From: Dhruv Dhody
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 12:59 AM
To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Cc: Dhruv Dhody; pce@ietf.org; Leeyoung; Daniele Ceccarelli
Subject: RE: draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt draft-dhodylee-pce-p=
cep-te-data-extn-01,

Hi Sergio,

[Adding WG in CC list]

Thanks for your mail, see inline...

From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
To: Leeyoung; Dhruv Dhody; Daniele Ceccarelli
Cc: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-=
te-data-extn-01,

Hi Young, Druhv, Daniele

as promised I have some comments/clarifications to send after the meeting i=
n Honolulu.
In general , as I've already said to Young after presentation, I consider t=
he intention to find alternative method to IGP listening to feed TE topolog=
y information into PCE a very important issue and the drafts are very usefu=
l .
Going into the drafts specifically , about the first draft-lee-pce-transpor=
ting-te-data-01.txt  :


1)      In the second architecture option is considered as possible interme=
diate entity an NMS ? NMS can simple retrieve topology by usual p2p request=
 to nodes.
[Dhruv]: The document does not make any assumption on the intermediate syst=
em that implements the pub/sub paradigm; BUT IMHO I don't see intermediate =
entity as an NMS, I see it more like a special PCE with pub/sub functionali=
ty (like RR in case of BGP).

2)      In the third architecture , PCEs to share information among the oth=
er PCEs in the domain need to have routing protocol . this does not permit =
to have a simplified implementation of PCE (since it does not need to "list=
en" from network nodes no routing instance on board) . Is it correct my fee=
ling?
[Dhruv]: For PCE that share TED information to other PCEs, it can use the s=
ame PCEP TED population mechanism that is used by the node (PCC) to PCE. Th=
us the PCEP extn should be extensible to handle PCE-PCE TED exchange. We do=
 not want the dependence on the routing protocol.


For the draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-01 :

*         In 9.2.4 TE Node Descriptor Sub-TLVs is said at the last bullet "=
There can be at most one instance of each sub-TLV type present in any Node =
Descriptor". But what does it mean : e.g. if one does not implement  BGP-LS=
 why you would need to put this type of sub-tlv? Or there is a specific val=
ue to put in case you don't' use the sub-TLV?

[Dhruv]: The statement means that you should not repeat the same sub-TLV tw=
ice. All SUB-TLV are not mandatory, that is, you should include the sub-TLV=
 only if needed; so BGP-LS sub-tlv should be added only if the node impleme=
nts BGP-LS. I can update text to reflect that.

*         9.2.5 : the chapter report  a table with only specific column for=
 IS-IS , and relative value defined for the sub-tlv. What about if you do n=
ot use IS-IS . Moreover the last part  of the paragraph talked about the in=
formation present in the LSA/LSP originated by local node, and these inform=
ation determine the set of sub-TLvs in the link. But what is the relationsh=
ip with the just above table? Are there other not mentioned sub-TLVs to inc=
lude? Not totally clear what information is referring to.

[Dhruv]: PCEP will get its own code points, those are in column 1 with TBD;=
 the IS-IS column is to let the reader find the corresponding already-defin=
ed-TLV, since we do not want to repeat the format and fields of each of the=
 TLV again in this document. Similar principle is followed by BGP-LS. This =
does not mean the implementation must have IS-IS enabled to use this extens=
ion.

*         9.2.6: Why again a sub-TLV specific for IS-IS ? Moreover even if =
the draft does not mandate any particular choice of routing protocol, is co=
ntinuosly referring to BGP-LS , like a translation of BGP-LS sub-TLV into P=
CEP.

[Dhruv]: see above.

*         9.2.7 : is this TLV optional as for the Node Attributes TLV? If y=
es this would be explicitly said. In the table the is only mention of value=
s referred to IS-IS or BGP-LS, what about OSPF-TE?
[Dhruv]:We are refereeing to IS-IS and BGP-LS for the TLV format, it has no=
 dependency on the actual protocol. Since the TLV format is the same there =
is no reason to also mention OSPF here. Following text in the document stat=
es this -
The format and semantics of the 'value' fields in most 'Link
   Descriptor' sub-TLVs correspond to the format and semantics of value
   fields in IS-IS Extended IS Reachability sub-TLVs, defined in
   [RFC5305], [RFC5307] and [RFC6119].  Although the encodings for 'Link
   Descriptor' TLVs were originally defined for IS-IS, the TLVs can
   carry data sourced either by IS-IS or OSPF or direct.

We have also updated the extension document, see - http://www.ietf.org/id/d=
raft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02.txt

Regards,
Dhruv

Thanks in advance for any clarifications you would provide .

Sergio




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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">We have updated this d=
raft. Here&#8217;s new version pointer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><a href=3D"http://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn/">http://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn/</a><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Major changes are:<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Security and M=
anageability sections enhancement
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Make this expe=
rimental track from a standard track.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">In the last meeting, q=
uite a few were interested in this draft, but there was also some objection=
 for this work to move on.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As we are proposing th=
is work to be an experimental draft, we hope objection would be lifted.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Young &amp; Dhruv <o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Dhruv Dh=
ody
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 05, 2015 12:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dhruv Dhody; pce@ietf.org; Leeyoung; Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt draft-dhodyle=
e-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-01,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Adding WG in CC list]<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks for your mail, see inline&#8230;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> BELOTTI,=
 SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
<br>
<b>To:</b> Leeyoung; Dhruv Dhody; Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
<b>Cc:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt draft-dhodylee-pc=
e-pcep-te-data-extn-01,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Young, Druhv, Daniele<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">as promised I have some comments/clarifications to s=
end after the meeting in Honolulu.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In general , as I&#8217;ve already said to Young aft=
er presentation, I consider the intention to find alternative method to IGP=
 listening to feed TE topology information into PCE a very important issue =
and the drafts are very useful .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Going into the drafts specifically , about the first=
 draft-lee-pce-transporting-te-data-01.txt&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>In the second architecture option is considered as =
possible intermediate entity an NMS ? NMS can simple retrieve topology by u=
sual p2p request to nodes.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: The document does not make any as=
sumption on the intermediate system that implements the pub/sub paradigm; B=
UT IMHO I don&#8217;t see intermediate entity as an NMS, I see
 it more like a special PCE with pub/sub functionality (like RR in case of =
BGP). <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>In the third architecture , PCEs to share informati=
on among the other PCEs in the domain need to have routing protocol . this =
does not permit to have a simplified implementation of PCE (since it does n=
ot need to &#8220;listen&#8221; from network
 nodes no routing instance on board) . Is it correct my feeling? &nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: For PCE that share TED informatio=
n to other PCEs, it can use the same PCEP TED population mechanism that is =
used by the node (PCC) to PCE. Thus the PCEP extn should
 be extensible to handle PCE-PCE TED exchange. We do not want the dependenc=
e on the routing protocol.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-01 :<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l2 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">In 9.2.4 TE Node Descriptor Sub=
-TLVs is said at the last bullet &#8220;There can be at most one instance o=
f each sub-TLV type present in any Node Descriptor&#8221;. But what
 does it mean : e.g. if one does not implement&nbsp; BGP-LS why you would n=
eed to put this type of sub-tlv? Or there is a specific value to put in cas=
e you don&#8217;t&#8217; use the sub-TLV?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Candara&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: The statement=
 means that you should not repeat the same sub-TLV twice. All SUB-TLV are n=
ot mandatory, that is, you should include the sub-TLV only
 if needed; so BGP-LS sub-tlv should be added only if the node implements B=
GP-LS. I can update text to reflect that.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l2 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">9.2.5 : the chapter report&nbsp=
; a table with only specific column for IS-IS , and relative value defined =
for the sub-tlv. What about if you do not use IS-IS . Moreover
 the last part &nbsp;of the paragraph talked about the information present =
in the LSA/LSP originated by local node, and these information determine th=
e set of sub-TLvs in the link. But what is the relationship with the just a=
bove table? Are there other not mentioned
 sub-TLVs to include? Not totally clear what information is referring to. <=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Candara&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: PCEP will get=
 its own code points, those are in column 1 with TBD; the IS-IS column is t=
o let the reader find the corresponding already-defined-TLV,
 since we do not want to repeat the format and fields of each of the TLV ag=
ain in this document. Similar principle is followed by BGP-LS. This does no=
t mean the implementation must have IS-IS enabled to use this extension.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l2 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">9.2.6: Why again a sub-TLV spec=
ific for IS-IS ? Moreover even if the draft does not mandate any particular=
 choice of routing protocol, is continuosly referring
 to BGP-LS , like a translation of BGP-LS sub-TLV into PCEP.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Candara&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]: see above.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:38.4pt;text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l2 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">9.2.7 : is this TLV optional as=
 for the Node Attributes TLV? If yes this would be explicitly said. In the =
table the is only mention of values referred to IS-IS
 or BGP-LS, what about OSPF-TE?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Dhruv]:We are refereeing to IS-IS and BGP=
-LS for the TLV format, it has no dependency on the actual protocol. Since =
the TLV format is the same there is no reason to also mention
 OSPF here. Following text in the document states this &#8211; <o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The format and semantics of t=
he 'value' fields in most 'Link<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Descriptor' sub-=
TLVs correspond to the format and semantics of value<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; fields in IS-IS =
Extended IS Reachability sub-TLVs, defined in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC5305], [RFC5=
307] and [RFC6119].&nbsp; Although the encodings for 'Link<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Descriptor' TLVs=
 were originally defined for IS-IS, the TLVs can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; carry data sourc=
ed either by IS-IS or OSPF or direct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">We have also updated the extension documen=
t, see -
<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02.t=
xt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-te-data-extn-02.txt</a><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dhruv<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks in advance for any clarifications you would p=
rovide .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sergio<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1729C94D48dfweml706chm_--


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Cc: pce@ietf.org
Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : PCEP Extensions for Segment Routing
        Authors         : Siva Sivabalan
                          Jan Medved
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Victor Lopez
                          Jeff Tantsura
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Edward Crabbe
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2015-03-09

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) enables any head-end node to select any path
   without relying on a hop-by-hop signaling technique (e.g., LDP or
   RSVP-TE).  It depends only on "segments" that are advertised by Link-
   State Interior Gateway Protocols (IGPs).  A Segment Routed Path can
   be derived from a variety of mechanisms, including an IGP Shortest
   Path Tree (SPT), explicit configuration, or a Path Computation
   Element (PCE).  This document specifies extensions to the Path
   Computation Element Protocol (PCEP) that allow a stateful PCE to
   compute and initiate Traffic Engineering (TE) paths, as well as a PCC
   to request a path subject to certain constraint(s) and optimization
   criteria in SR networks.



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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing/

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Conveying path setup type in PCEP messages
        Authors         : Siva Sivabalan
                          Jan Medved
                          Ina Minei
                          Edward Crabbe
                          Pantheon Technologies SRO
                          Jeff Tantsura
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-lsp-setup-type-01.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2015-03-09

Abstract:
   A Path Computation Element can compute traffic engineering paths (TE
   paths) through a network that are subject to various constraints.
   Currently, TE paths are label switched paths (LSPs) which are set up
   using the RSVP-TE signaling protocol.  However, other TE path setup
   methods are possible within the PCE architecture.  This document
   proposes an extension to PCEP to allow support for different path
   setup methods over a given PCEP session.



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Cc: 'JP Vasseur' <jpv@cisco.com>, "Siva Sivabalan \(msiva\)" <msiva@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Adding Service in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
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From nobody Thu Mar 12 01:51:55 2015
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Subject: [Pce] Draft PCE Agenda for Dallas
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Hi all.

The draft agenda for the PCE meeting during IETF 92 is on line: 
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/92/agenda/agenda-92-pce:
- Should you have any comment, please share them with the chairs and 
secretary ASAP;
- Should you be among the presenters, please send your slides to the 
same 3 by Sunday, March 22.

Regards,

JP & Julien


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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Hao Wang <wangh13@mails.tsinghua.edu.cn>, sfc <sfc@ietf.org>, "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-wu-pce-traffic-steering-sfc-06.txt
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Subject: Re: [Pce] [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-wu-pce-traffic-steering-sfc-06.txt
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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA846F54E4nkgeml501mbschi_--


From nobody Sun Mar 15 22:52:13 2015
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>, Francesco Fondelli <francesco.fondelli@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Review of draft-dw-pce-service-segment-routing
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Zhenghaomian <zhenghaomian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your comments, pl=
ease see inline:)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Haomian<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">-----<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US">: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcate=
l-lucent.com]
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US">: 2015</span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">=C4=EA</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">3</span><span style=3D"font-family:=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D4=C2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">16</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
 23:48<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US">: Zhenghaomian<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">: pce@ietf.org; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">: RE: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-pce-resource-sh=
aring-03.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Haomian,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I would have some comments/c=
larification on the updated part of this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.2<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have some problem with you=
r last part of the session:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&quot; During this procedure=
 higher-layer PCE can only use LSP1 information
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(such as i=
ts five-tuple LSP information) as the information, an
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;issue to s=
olve is how lower-layer PCE can resolve this information
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to the act=
ual resource usage in its own layer, i.e. lower layer.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This could=
 be solved by edge LSR L1 reporting this higher-lower
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;layer LSP =
correlation to the lower-layer PCE as part of the LSP
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;informatio=
n during the LSP state synchronization process. If needed,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;it can be =
later updated when there is a change in this information.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Alternativ=
ely, the lower-layer PCE can get this information from
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;other sour=
ces, such as network management system, where this
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;informatio=
n should be stored.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Questions:<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a) what LSP1 information are=
 you referring ? which tuple? H1-H2-H3-H4-H5 ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] LSP1 refers to H2-H3 (as specified in the draft, two paragraph before=
 this), which actually come across H2-L1-L2-H3. 5-tuple here is used as an =
example to uniquely identify the LSP with
 whom the new LSP share resource. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b) What issue has to solve t=
he Lo PCE ?I sit not the Hi PCE indicating entry and exit point at lower la=
yer as for RFC 5623 session 3.2?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] As indicated in Section 3.2 of RFC5623, 'each PCE has topology visibi=
lity restricted to its own layer'. In this case, for the same LSP (LSP1 in =
this example), in the higher layer PCE
 it is considered as H2-H3. In this example, for the PCReq message from hig=
her-layer PCE to lower-layer PCE is 'LSP2 should share as much as possible =
with LSP1'. However, when higher-layer PCE consult to lower-layer PCE on re=
source sharing when computing LSP2,
 the lower layer PCE need to detect the 'hidden' resource usage on the lowe=
r layer, i.e., given 'LSP1' from higher layer PCE, the lower-layer PCE need=
 to map the LSP1 to 'H2-L1-L2-H3', and therefore detect the resource that c=
an be shared with LSP2 in the lower
 layer is 'L1-L2'. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">I se=
e your point on Hi PCE have entry/exit point, in a inter-layer case, H2 can=
 sometimes have 'full knowledge' of L1, but it not necessarily means H2 (or=
 higher layer PCE) can know which lower-layer
 resource can be used to share. For example, the higher layer PCE knows the=
 lower-layer path of LSP1 is 'L1-L2', but there are multiple possibilities =
in the lower-layer, it can be either 'L1-L2' or 'L1-L3-L4-L2'. Both of the =
possible lower-layer paths is 'abstracted'
 as 'L1-L2' for higher-layer PCE. In this case, the issue for lower-layer P=
CE is to find out which explicit link(s) is the target for resource sharing=
.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">c) Could you elaborate a lit=
tle this mapping problem you mention?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] The mapping problem is caused by the restricted visibility for each P=
CE. I think the example in my previous comments is clear, let me know if an=
y problem. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&quot; The process would be =
similar to that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of the pre=
vious scenario. A point worth noting is that the border
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;LSR node m=
ay be able to resolve the higher layer LSP information
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;itself, su=
ch as mapping it to the corresponding LSP in the lower
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;layer, in =
this way lower-layer PCE does not need to perform this function. Otherwise,=
 the mapping method mentioned above can still be
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;used. &quo=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Question:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a)What mapping method are yo=
u referring to ? Not clear whether and how you indicate to solve the proble=
m.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] As specified in previous comments, the objective of 'mapping' is to f=
ind out 'L1-L2' from 'LSP1 in RSO' . As described in RFC5623, if inter-PCE =
communication allowed, the PCReq message
 is sent from higher-layer PCE directly to lower-layer PCE during consultat=
ion. If inter-PCE communication not allowed, the PCReq message should sent =
from higher-layer PCE to H2 first, and then travel across L1 and lower-laye=
r PCE. In this way, the 'mapping'
 issue is addressed by L1 instead of lower-layer PCE, as it has the lower-l=
ayer knowledge for LSP1. In some other cases, if L1 don't have enough knowl=
edge to find out which explicit link(s) can be used to share, it will also =
leave the problem to lower-layer
 PCE, which will have a same solution as described in the previous section.=
 <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks a lot<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Pce [<a href=3D"mailto=
:pce-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none=
">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Zhenghaomian<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: venerd</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=A8=AC</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"> 27 febbraio 2015 07:53<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: <a href=3D"mailto:pce@ie=
tf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">pce@ietf.org<=
/span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: [Pce] </span><span =
style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D7=AA=B7=A2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear PCEers,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We update the draft on PCE f=
or resource sharing according to some offline comments, following changes a=
re included in the updated version;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Use Case 2 is modified to =
describe the inter-layer resource sharing scenario;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Specify resource sharing a=
s a possible policy during path computation;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Correct the semantic meani=
ng of D and R bits in Section 5.2;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Editorial changes; <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your review comments are mos=
t welcome. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Haomian<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">:
<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a> [<a href=3D"mail=
to:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none">mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: 2015</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">2</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D4=C2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">27</span=
><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>
 14:39<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=CA=D5=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: Oscar Gonzalez de Dios; Zhenghaom=
ian; Victor Lopez; Zhangxian (Xian); Zhangxian (Xian); Oscar Gonzalez de Di=
os; Victor Lopez; Zhenghaomian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D6=F7=
=CC=E2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: New Version Notification for draft-zhan=
g-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A new version of I-D, draft-=
zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">has been successfully submit=
ted by Haomian Zheng and posted to the IETF repository.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-zhang-p=
ce-resource-sharing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Revision:&nbsp; 03<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; Extensions to Path Computation Element Protocol (PCEP) to Support Res=
ource Sharing-based Path Computation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Document date:&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2015-02-27<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual S=
ubmission<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 14<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">URL:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/i=
nternet-drafts/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://www.ietf.org/i=
nternet-drafts/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt</span></a><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Status:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing/">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Htmlized:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-pce-res=
ource-sharing-03">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Diff:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/rfcdif=
f?url2=3Ddraft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://www.ietf.org/r=
fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03</span></a><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Resource sharin=
g in a network means two or more Label Switched Paths<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;(LSPs) use comm=
on piece(s) of resource along their paths. This can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; help save netwo=
rk resource and useful in scenarios such as LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; recovery or whe=
n two LSPs do not need to be active at the same time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A Path Computat=
ion Element (PCE) is a centralized entity,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; responsible for=
 path computation. Given this feature and its access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; to the network =
resource information and possibly active LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; information, it=
 can be used to support resource-sharing-based path<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; computation wit=
h better efficiency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document e=
xtends the Path Computation Element Protocol (PCEP)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in order to sup=
port resource sharing-based path computation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please note that it may take=
 a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version=
 and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The IETF Secretariat<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">____________________________=
___________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Pce mailing list<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Pce@ietf.org</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/pce"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:n=
one">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-wu-pce-traffic-steering-sfc
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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">FYI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Qin Wu
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2015</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">3</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">17</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 12:01<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> 'Ron Parker'<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Dhruv Dhody<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> RE: Comments on draft-wu-pce-traffic-steering-sfc<o:p></o:p></span></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi, Ron:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Thanks for your valuable comments. See my reply inline.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Ron Par=
ker [<a href=3D"mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com">mailto:Ron_Parker@a=
ffirmednetworks.com</a>]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2015</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">3</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">17</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 5:32<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Comments on draft-wu-pce-traffic-steering-sfc<o:p></o:p></span></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In section 5.2.1, the format in=
cudes the SFP ID and the Service Index.&nbsp;&nbsp; But this is a message f=
rom PCE to PCC (presumably the classifier).&nbsp;&nbsp;
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]:Correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What does the index mean in tha=
t context?&nbsp;&nbsp;
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]: The index is used to count the number of service provided =
by service function chain, When it is carried in the SFC encapsulation, it =
can further be used by SFF to provide
 location within the service path.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"> We will add some text to clarify this in the n=
ext update.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F4=
97D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Also, could you define or give =
more background on =A1=B0PLSP-ID=A1=B1 in the SPI definition?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]:Okay, how about add the following text under the LSP Object=
 format in the draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">=A1=B0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">The PLSP-ID is a PCEP-spe=
cific identifier for the LSP. It is set to a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; value that is constant for the lifetime o=
f the PCEP session.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">A PCC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; creates a unique PLSP-ID for each LSP and=
 will advertise the same PLSP-ID<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; on all PCEP sessions it maintains at a gi=
ven times.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">The<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; values of 0 and 0xFFFFF are reserved.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Is the PCC expected to =A1=B0kn=
ow=A1=B1 a priori the full sequence of SFF=A1=AFs and SFI=A1=AFs associated=
 to a Service Path ID?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Or should that be conveyed in the =
message between PCE and PCC dynamically?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">[Qin]: In case SFC forwarding is fully distributed, PCE only needs t=
o compute the full sequence of SFF corresponding to SFP ID based on the sou=
rce address and destination address specified in the END- POINTS object of =
PCE message. The full sequence of SFF can be carried using Explicit Route O=
bject.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">The classifier only needs to know how to map traffic to the specific=
 SFP.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">full sequence of SFI=A1=AFs associated to a Service Path ID seems=
 not needed for the case when SFC forwarding is fully distributed.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">If PCC is expected to =A1=B0know=A1=B1 a priori the full sequence=
 of SFI=A1=AFs associated to a Service Path ID, PCC can use segment routing=
 approach proposed in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-dw-pce-service-segment-routing-01=
.txt"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">draft-dw-pce-servi=
ce-segment-routing</span></a> and&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pce/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing/"><s=
pan style=3D"color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-pce-segment-rou=
ting</span></a> to determine a explicit path traversing by SF for the traff=
ic. Yes, full sequence of SFI can be
 conveyed in the message between PCE and PCC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Alternatively, PCC as classifier can interact with SFC controller=
 to get full sequence of SFI=A1=AFs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Is the PCC expected to concrete=
ly select the RSP ID (i.e., which SFI=A1=AFs exactly) and if so, how does t=
hat factor into the approach?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]: If PCC is expected to concretely select the Rendered Servi=
ce function Path, I think we can rely on service segment approach proposed =
in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-dw-pce-service-segment-routing-01=
.txt"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">draft-dw-pce-servi=
ce-segment-routing</span></a> combining with the mechanism proposed in draf=
t-wu-pce-traffic-steering-sfc and segment
 routing approach defined in <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pce/draft-=
ietf-pce-segment-routing/">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">draft-ietf-pce-segment-r=
outing</span></a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ron<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84704C98nkgeml501mbschi_--


From nobody Tue Mar 17 05:05:19 2015
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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.dhody@huawei.com>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03.txt
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Hi,=20

Thanks for the update and taking care of the comments posted during WG LC [=
1].=20

But some issues are still open, let me repeat them -=20

(1) The text should be in line with RFC7399 [2]; where 'instantiate LSP' is=
 marked out of scope. The consensus was to use 'suggest' or 'recommend' wit=
h ''instantiate LSP'. See [3]. I would like this to align between documents=
, but if no one else is bothered with it, then I will shut up.=20

(2) Some text on LSPDB Synchronization is needed, perhaps in section 3.2, s=
ee sample text -=20

   LSP State Synchronization procedure is described in section 5.4 of
   [I-D.ietf-pce-stateful-pce]. During State Synchronization, a PCC
   SHOULD also send LSP State Report for PCE-Initiated LSP with Create
   flag and SYNC flag in the LSP Object set to 1. PCC SHOULD also
   include the optional SPEAKER-IDENTITY-ID TLV defined in [I-D.ietf-
   pce-stateful-sync-optimizations] identifying the PCE that requested
   the LSP creation. At the end of state synchronization, PCE SHOULD
   also do a sanity check between the reported PCE-Initiated LSPs and
   local configurations at PCE to initiate LSPs. For any mismatch, PCE
   SHOULD send PCInitiate message to either initiate (again) or remove
   those LSPs.

Thanks again!=20

Regards,
Dhruv

[1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg04092.html
[2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7399#section-20
[3] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg03721.html




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf=
.org
> Sent: 06 March 2015 07:01
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: pce@ietf.org
> Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>  This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element Working Group =
of
> the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : PCEP Extensions for PCE-initiated LSP Setup in =
a
> Stateful PCE Model
>         Authors         : Edward Crabbe
>                           Ina Minei
>                           Siva Sivabalan
>                           Robert Varga
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 16
> 	Date            : 2015-03-05
>=20
> Abstract:
>    The Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) provides
>    mechanisms for Path Computation Elements (PCEs) to perform path
>    computations in response to Path Computation Clients (PCCs) requests.
>=20
>    The extensions for stateful PCE provide stateful control of
>    Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering Label
>    Switched Paths (TE LSP) via PCEP, for a model where the PCC delegates
>    control over one or more locally configured LSPs to the PCE.  This
>    document describes the creation and deletion of PCE-initiated LSPs
>    under the stateful PCE model.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-03
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Pce mailing list
> Pce@ietf.org
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Zhenghaomian <zhenghaomian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt
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<body lang=3D"IT" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-trim=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Th=
anks </span>
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Haomian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I see your points now.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Zhenghaomian=
 [mailto:zhenghaomian@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> marted=A8=AC 17 marzo 2015 04:44<br>
<b>To:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pce@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:SimSun">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: New Version =
Notification for draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your comments, pl=
ease see inline:)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Haomian<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----</span><span lang=3D"ZH=
-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">-----<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [<a href=3D"mailto:s=
ergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com<=
/a>]
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=
=BC=E4</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: 2015</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=
=3D"font-family:SimSun">=C4=EA</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">3</span><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=D4=C2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
16</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=C8=D5</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US">
 23:48<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: Zhenghaomian<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">:
<a href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<=
br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">: RE: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-pce-re=
source-sharing-03.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Haomian,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I would have some comments/c=
larification on the updated part of this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.2<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have some problem with you=
r last part of the session:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&quot; During this procedure=
 higher-layer PCE can only use LSP1 information
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(such as i=
ts five-tuple LSP information) as the information, an
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;issue to s=
olve is how lower-layer PCE can resolve this information
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to the act=
ual resource usage in its own layer, i.e. lower layer.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This could=
 be solved by edge LSR L1 reporting this higher-lower
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;layer LSP =
correlation to the lower-layer PCE as part of the LSP
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;informatio=
n during the LSP state synchronization process. If needed,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;it can be =
later updated when there is a change in this information.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Alternativ=
ely, the lower-layer PCE can get this information from
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;other sour=
ces, such as network management system, where this
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;informatio=
n should be stored.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Questions:<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a) what LSP1 information are=
 you referring ? which tuple? H1-H2-H3-H4-H5 ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] LSP1 refers to H2-H3 (as specified in the draft, two paragraph before=
 this), which actually come across H2-L1-L2-H3. 5-tuple here is used as an =
example to uniquely identify the LSP with
 whom the new LSP share resource. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b) What issue has to solve t=
he Lo PCE ?I sit not the Hi PCE indicating entry and exit point at lower la=
yer as for RFC 5623 session 3.2?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] As indicated in Section 3.2 of RFC5623, 'each PCE has topology visibi=
lity restricted to its own layer'. In this case, for the same LSP (LSP1 in =
this example), in the higher layer PCE
 it is considered as H2-H3. In this example, for the PCReq message from hig=
her-layer PCE to lower-layer PCE is 'LSP2 should share as much as possible =
with LSP1'. However, when higher-layer PCE consult to lower-layer PCE on re=
source sharing when computing LSP2,
 the lower layer PCE need to detect the 'hidden' resource usage on the lowe=
r layer, i.e., given 'LSP1' from higher layer PCE, the lower-layer PCE need=
 to map the LSP1 to 'H2-L1-L2-H3', and therefore detect the resource that c=
an be shared with LSP2 in the lower
 layer is 'L1-L2'. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">I se=
e your point on Hi PCE have entry/exit point, in a inter-layer case, H2 can=
 sometimes have 'full knowledge' of L1, but it not necessarily means H2 (or=
 higher layer PCE) can know which lower-layer
 resource can be used to share. For example, the higher layer PCE knows the=
 lower-layer path of LSP1 is 'L1-L2', but there are multiple possibilities =
in the lower-layer, it can be either 'L1-L2' or 'L1-L3-L4-L2'. Both of the =
possible lower-layer paths is 'abstracted'
 as 'L1-L2' for higher-layer PCE. In this case, the issue for lower-layer P=
CE is to find out which explicit link(s) is the target for resource sharing=
.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">c) Could you elaborate a lit=
tle this mapping problem you mention?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] The mapping problem is caused by the restricted visibility for each P=
CE. I think the example in my previous comments is clear, let me know if an=
y problem. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&quot; The process would be =
similar to that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of the pre=
vious scenario. A point worth noting is that the border
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;LSR node m=
ay be able to resolve the higher layer LSP information
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;itself, su=
ch as mapping it to the corresponding LSP in the lower
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;layer, in =
this way lower-layer PCE does not need to perform this function. Otherwise,=
 the mapping method mentioned above can still be
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;used. &quo=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Question:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a)What mapping method are yo=
u referring to ? Not clear whether and how you indicate to solve the proble=
m.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#C00000">[Hao=
mian] As specified in previous comments, the objective of 'mapping' is to f=
ind out 'L1-L2' from 'LSP1 in RSO' . As described in RFC5623, if inter-PCE =
communication allowed, the PCReq message
 is sent from higher-layer PCE directly to lower-layer PCE during consultat=
ion. If inter-PCE communication not allowed, the PCReq message should sent =
from higher-layer PCE to H2 first, and then travel across L1 and lower-laye=
r PCE. In this way, the 'mapping'
 issue is addressed by L1 instead of lower-layer PCE, as it has the lower-l=
ayer knowledge for LSP1. In some other cases, if L1 don't have enough knowl=
edge to find out which explicit link(s) can be used to share, it will also =
leave the problem to lower-layer
 PCE, which will have a same solution as described in the previous section.=
 <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks a lot<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">BR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Pce [<a href=3D"mailto=
:pce-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none=
">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Zhenghaomian<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: venerd</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=A8=AC</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"> 27 febbraio 2015 07:53<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: <a href=3D"mailto:pce@ie=
tf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">pce@ietf.org<=
/span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: [Pce] </span><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=D7=AA=B7=A2</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-=
03.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear PCEers,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We update the draft on PCE f=
or resource sharing according to some offline comments, following changes a=
re included in the updated version;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Use Case 2 is modified to =
describe the inter-layer resource sharing scenario;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Specify resource sharing a=
s a possible policy during path computation;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Correct the semantic meani=
ng of D and R bits in Section 5.2;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Editorial changes; <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your review comments are mos=
t welcome. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Haomian<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----</span><span lang=3D"ZH=
-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun"=
>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">:
<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a> [<a href=3D"mail=
to:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none">mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun"=
>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: 2015</span><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=C4=EA</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
2</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun">=D4=C2</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">27</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun"=
>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
 14:39<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun"=
>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: Oscar Gonzalez de Dios; Zh=
enghaomian; Victor Lopez; Zhangxian (Xian); Zhangxian (Xian); Oscar Gonzale=
z de Dios; Victor Lopez; Zhenghaomian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun"=
>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">: New Version Notification for dra=
ft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A new version of I-D, draft-=
zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">has been successfully submit=
ted by Haomian Zheng and posted to the IETF repository.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-zhang-p=
ce-resource-sharing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Revision:&nbsp; 03<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; Extensions to Path Computation Element Protocol (PCEP) to Support Res=
ource Sharing-based Path Computation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Document date:&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2015-02-27<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual S=
ubmission<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 14<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">URL:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/i=
nternet-drafts/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://www.ietf.org/i=
nternet-drafts/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03.txt</span></a><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Status:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing/">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Htmlized:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-pce-res=
ource-sharing-03">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Diff:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/rfcdif=
f?url2=3Ddraft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://www.ietf.org/r=
fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing-03</span></a><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Resource sharin=
g in a network means two or more Label Switched Paths<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;(LSPs) use comm=
on piece(s) of resource along their paths. This can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; help save netwo=
rk resource and useful in scenarios such as LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; recovery or whe=
n two LSPs do not need to be active at the same time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A Path Computat=
ion Element (PCE) is a centralized entity,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; responsible for=
 path computation. Given this feature and its access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; to the network =
resource information and possibly active LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; information, it=
 can be used to support resource-sharing-based path<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; computation wit=
h better efficiency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document e=
xtends the Path Computation Element Protocol (PCEP)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in order to sup=
port resource sharing-based path computation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
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Subject: [Pce] [rfc-dist] RFC 7491 on A PCE-Based Architecture for Application-Based Network Operations
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Hi All, 

 

Just a heads up that the ABNO Framework I-D was recently published as
RFC7491 - https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7491. 

 

Thanks to the ABNO authors/contributors and Alia for sponsoring the I-D and
helping polish the document in the final stages. 

 

BR, Dan.


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">FYI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">This is related to control of Service Function Path establishment=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">The relevant draft in PCE is
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-wu-pce-traffic-steering-sfc-06.tx=
t"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">draft-wu-pce-traffic-=
steering-sfc</span></a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:black">-Qin</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F=
497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSu=
n">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun"> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=B4=FA=B1=ED =
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSu=
n">Linda Dunbar<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=CB=CD=
=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun"> 2015</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">3</span>=D4=C2<=
span lang=3D"EN-US">25</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 23:43<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> sfc@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> 'Jim Guichard (jguichar)'; Thomas Narten<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> [sfc] Minutes of the SFC Control Plane side meeting<o:p></o:p></span></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><u><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Minutes of the SFC =
Control Plane side meeting<o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">March 25, 8am-9am<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:black">Participants:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Joel Halpern, Jim Guichard, Paul Quinn=
, Andy Malis, Walter Haeffner, Mohamed Boucadair, Qin Wu, James Huang, Seun=
gik Lee, and Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt=
;color:black"><o:p><span style=3D"text-decoration:none">&nbsp;</span></o:p>=
</span></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt=
;color:black"><o:p><span style=3D"text-decoration:none">&nbsp;</span></o:p>=
</span></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt=
;color:black">Agreed:
<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">SFC WG needs to document the overall i=
nterfaces for controlling service function path.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Agreed the following interfaces for co=
ntrol plane.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">SFC&nbsp; Cont=
rol Plane&nbsp; Architecture
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;page-break-after:avoid">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; &#43;-------------&#43;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;page-break-after:avoid">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;| SF Client&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;page-break-after:avoid">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; &#43;------&#43;------&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;page-break-after:avoid">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">M1: interface to clients<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&#43;-----=
---------------------------------------------------------------&#43;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">|SFC Manag=
ement, compute, and control&nbsp; components&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">|&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
 &#43;---------&#43;--------------------------&#43;------------------------=
------&#43;&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;C1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |C2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |F2<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; &#43;------|--------------------------|---------------------------&#43;&=
nbsp; |
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-----------&#43;-------------&=
#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; | &#43;----&#43;--- --&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; | |&nbsp;&nbsp; SFC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#=
43;----&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-|--&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;----&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; | |Classifier |----&gt;|SFF |-----&gt;|SFF |-------&gt;|SFF |&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; | |&nbsp;&nbsp; Node&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&lt;----|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&lt=
;-----|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&lt;-------|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; | &#43;-----------&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;----&#43;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;----&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; &#43;----&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&n=
bsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
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nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
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p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
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p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
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&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;-----------&#43; F1&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; V&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &#43;----&#43; &#43;----&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; | SF&nbsp; Proxy |-----&#43;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | SF | |SF&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-----------&#43;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;--&#43; &#43;-&#43;--&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |F&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |F&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp; SFC Data Plane Components&nbsp; &#43;------&#43;----------------=
--------&#43;--&#43;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-after:avoid"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |-------------------------------------------------------------&#43;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">The SFC control plane architecture wil=
l specify the interfaces for
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:b=
lack"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">Classifier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:b=
lack"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">SFF<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:b=
lack"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">Service functions (and SF proxy)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">And will specify the content to be exc=
hanged over each interface for controlling Service Function Path establishm=
ent and alternation due to SFC policy change
 or SF/network failures.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We a=
re looking for comments from the community with regard to this proposed SFC=
 control plane architecture.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Agre=
ed that IETF 93 Prague meeting will allocate a dedicated slot for control p=
lane discussion.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Chee=
rs, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Lind=
a Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Wed Mar 25 14:04:25 2015
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To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Pce] PCE as a Central Controller
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Hi,

We couldn't get a chance to present in the WG, because of the excellent
discussion about DetNet.

BTW, here is the link to the slides:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/92/slides/slides-92-pce-3.pdf

Do find me in the hallways or offline if this work strikes your fancy! And
I can manage to show a quick demo too!

Thanks!

Dhruv

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Hi, <br><br>We couldn&=
#39;t get a chance to present in the WG, because of the excellent discussio=
n about DetNet. <br><br>BTW, here is the link to the slides: <a href=3D"htt=
p://www.ietf.org/proceedings/92/slides/slides-92-pce-3.pdf">http://www.ietf=
.org/proceedings/92/slides/slides-92-pce-3.pdf</a><br><br>Do find me in the=
 hallways or offline if this work strikes your fancy! And I can manage to s=
how a quick demo too! <br><br>Thanks! <br><br>Dhruv</font></div>

--20cf303f6e209d90060512233d83--


From nobody Wed Mar 25 16:23:18 2015
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From: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 23:23:12 +0000
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Subject: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Hi Jeff

I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we see=
med to be talking at cross-purposes.

The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively c=
reates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP se=
ssion, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater tha=
n the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent =
as an explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.

In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress =
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not.

*         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network ma=
nagement tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress routers i=
n its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say tha=
t the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.

*         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between do=
mains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of al=
l edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  Ag=
ain, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.

I don't think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of segment =
routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is targetin=
g.  At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the w=
ork that we are doing today to make them work.

Best regards
Jon


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at =
the mic today as we seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open messa=
ge, which effectively creates an implicit constraint on all queries that ar=
e sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have a SID =
stack depth greater than the MSD.&nbsp;
 I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent as an expli=
cit constraint on each query.&nbsp; Here is my reasoning.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that t=
he PCC and the ingress router are the same device.&nbsp; There are at least=
 two cases where it is not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span styl=
e=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>In some network management architectures, th=
e PCC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network management tool may h=
ave many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so=
 it is not true to say that the MSD is
 a constant for the PCC-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span styl=
e=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE com=
munication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and=
 is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some dom=
ain further upstream).&nbsp; Again, the MSD
 is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#8217;t think that we should rule either of th=
ese scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are not the first scenar=
ios that everyone is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we will want to do them=
 and we do not want to re-do the work that we
 are doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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+1,  I agree with Jon.

Perhaps a new METRIC type for MSD?

Regards,
Dhruv

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Jonathan Hardwick <
Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com> wrote:

>  Hi Jeff
>
>
>
> I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we
> seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.
>
>
>
> The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively
> creates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP
> session, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater
> than the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be
> sent as an explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.
>
>
>
> In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingres=
s
> router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not=
.
>
> =C2=B7         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a net=
work
> management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress route=
rs
> in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say
> that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.
>
> =C2=B7         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication bet=
ween
> domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf o=
f
> all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).
> Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.
>
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out o=
f segment
> routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is
> targeting.  At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to
> re-do the work that we are doing today to make them work.
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pce mailing list
> Pce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">+1, =C2=A0I agree with Jon.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Perha=
ps a new METRIC type for MSD?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>D=
hruv =C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Jonathan Hardwick <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jeff<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at =
the mic today as we seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open messa=
ge, which effectively creates an implicit constraint on all queries that ar=
e sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have a SID =
stack depth greater than the MSD.=C2=A0
 I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent as an expli=
cit constraint on each query.=C2=A0 Here is my reasoning.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that t=
he PCC and the ingress router are the same device.=C2=A0 There are at least=
 two cases where it is not.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span>=C2=B7<span style=3D"fon=
t:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u>In some network management architectures, the P=
CC is a network management tool.=C2=A0 The network management tool may have=
 many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it=
 is not true to say that the MSD is
 a constant for the PCC-PCE session.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span>=C2=B7<span style=3D"fon=
t:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u>In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE commun=
ication between domains.=C2=A0 One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is=
 acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain=
 further upstream).=C2=A0 Again, the MSD
 is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t think that we should rule either of =
these scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are not the first scen=
arios that everyone is targeting.=C2=A0 At some point we will want to do th=
em and we do not want to re-do the work that we
 are doing today to make them work.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Pce mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.org">Pce@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
To: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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I fully agree with the comments and thanks Jon for bringing it up.
We will work to address it.

Regards,
Jeff

On Mar 25, 2015, at 6:44 PM, Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:dhruv=
.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote:

+1,  I agree with Jon.

Perhaps a new METRIC type for MSD?

Regards,
Dhruv

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metas=
witch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>> wrote:
Hi Jeff

I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we see=
med to be talking at cross-purposes.

The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively c=
reates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP se=
ssion, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater tha=
n the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent =
as an explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.

In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress =
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not.

=95         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network =
management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress routers=
 in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say t=
hat the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.

=95         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between =
domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of =
all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  =
Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.

I don=92t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of segmen=
t routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is target=
ing.  At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the=
 work that we are doing today to make them work.

Best regards
Jon


_______________________________________________
Pce mailing list
Pce@ietf.org<mailto:Pce@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce



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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div>I fully agree with the comments and thanks Jon for bringing it up.</di=
v>
<div>We will work to address it.</div>
<div><br>
Regards,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Mar 25, 2015, at 6:44 PM, Dhruv Dhody &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhruv.ietf@g=
mail.com">dhruv.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&#43;1, &nbsp;I agree with Jon.&nbsp;
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps a new METRIC type for MSD?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Dhruv &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Jonathan Hardwi=
ck <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com" target=3D"_blank">J=
onathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jeff<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at =
the mic today as we seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open messa=
ge, which effectively creates an implicit constraint on all queries that ar=
e sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have a SID =
stack depth greater than the MSD.&nbsp;
 I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent as an expli=
cit constraint on each query.&nbsp; Here is my reasoning.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that t=
he PCC and the ingress router are the same device.&nbsp; There are at least=
 two cases where it is not.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span>=B7<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u>In some network management architectures, the P=
CC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network management tool may have=
 many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it=
 is not true to say that the MSD is a
 constant for the PCC-PCE session.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span>=B7<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u>In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE commun=
ication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is=
 acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain=
 further upstream).&nbsp; Again, the MSD is
 not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=92t think that we should rule either of these =
scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are not the first scenarios =
that everyone is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we will want to do them and=
 we do not want to re-do the work that we
 are doing today to make them work.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Pce mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.org">Pce@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Update to PCE-Yang (draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-02)
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WG,

As suggested in the WG session today related to PCEP-Yang, here are few
pointers on the next step -

(1) Use of Features
- Use features for any PCEP extn after RFC 5440
- Look out for optional features in RFC5440
- At the same time should not try to have too many features

(2) Stateful PCE as the next step
- Some concenses that we should tackle stateful PCE next
- Start with the same draft, we can decide to break if the draft becomes
too big.

(3) Entity-list
- Discussion if PCE-Yang should keep entity-list (borrowed from MIB)
- Initial opinion is to remove it, please let us know what's your opinion.

Please continue to provide us feedback, we plan to make an update
soon(ish).

Thanks!

Dhruv


On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.dhody@huawei.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Please find an update to the PCE-Yang draft with following changes -
>
> ~ Support for PCE Information (PCE Discovery Information)
>         * PCE Path Scope
>         * PCE Domain
>         * PCE Neighbor Domain
>         * PCE Capabilities
> ~ Review Comments
>         * One statistics missed "num-req-rcvd-error-sent"
>         * Update in Notifications
> ~ Security Considerations
> ~ Editorial Updates
>
> See diff at:
> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01&url2=draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-02
>
> Please have a look and provide comments...
>
> Plan is to start work on stateful PCE Yang next.
>
> Regards,
> Dhruv
>
>

--089e013a111836c9fd051225becf
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>WG,=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>As suggested in th=
e WG session today related to PCEP-Yang, here are few pointers on the next =
step - =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349=
px">(1) Use of Features</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">- Use features for any=C2=A0</sp=
an><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px;background-color:=
rgb(255,255,255)">PCEP</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">=
=C2=A0extn after RFC 5440</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">- Look out for optional featur=
es in RFC5440</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">- At the same time should not try to have=
 too many features</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073=
49px">(2) Stateful=C2=A0PCE as the next step</span><br style=3D"font-size:1=
2.8000001907349px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">- Some conc=
enses=C2=A0that we should tackle stateful PCE next</span><br style=3D"font-=
size:12.8000001907349px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">- Sta=
rt with the same draft, we can decide to break if the=C2=A0</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">draft becomes too big.</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px=
"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">(3) Entity-list</span><br st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907=
349px">- Discussion if PCE-</span><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:12.80=
00001907349px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Yang</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:12.8000001907349px">=C2=A0should keep entity-list (borrowed from =
MIB)</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.8000001907349px">- Initial opinion is to remove it, please let us kn=
ow what&#39;s=C2=A0your opinion.=C2=A0</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000=
001907349px"><div><br></div><div>Please continue to provide us feedback, we=
 plan to make an update soon(ish). =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Dhruv</div><div><br></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 12:=
55 AM, Dhruv Dhody <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhruv.dhody@huaw=
ei.com" target=3D"_blank">dhruv.dhody@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
Please find an update to the PCE-Yang draft with following changes -<br>
<br>
~ Support for PCE Information (PCE Discovery Information)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * PCE Path Scope<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * PCE Domain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * PCE Neighbor Domain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * PCE Capabilities<br>
~ Review Comments<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * One statistics missed &quot;num-req-rcvd-erro=
r-sent&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Update in Notifications<br>
~ Security Considerations<br>
~ Editorial Updates<br>
<br>
See diff at: <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-pkd-pce-pc=
ep-yang-01&amp;url2=3Ddraft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-02" target=3D"_blank">http://=
www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01&amp;url2=3Ddraft-pkd=
-pce-pcep-yang-02</a><br>
<br>
Please have a look and provide comments...<br>
<br>
Plan is to start work on stateful PCE Yang next.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Dhruv<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e013a111836c9fd051225becf--


From nobody Thu Mar 26 01:30:47 2015
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Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the=20
router. To correctly manage this informationfor Segment Path=20
computation, the PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the=20
PE, but also the P routers. So, the best way is to add MSD metric=20
announcement in the router SR capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g.=20
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03.txt page 23 section 3.1).=20
So that, the PCE get the information in its TEDon a per node basis. Then =

it is not necessary to add it in the OPEN message, but eventually, move=20
it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a constraint for the SR path=20
computation.

Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD=20
metric ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?

Regards,

Olivier

Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit :
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as=20
> we seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.
>
> The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which=20
> effectively creates an implicit constraint on all queries that are=20
> sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have a=20
> SID stack depth greater than the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that =

> the MSD should instead be sent as an explicit constraint on each=20
> query.  Here is my reasoning.
>
> In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the=20
> ingress router are the same device.  There are at least two cases=20
> where it is not.
>
> =B7In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network=20
> management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress=20
> routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not=20
> true to say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.
>
> =B7In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between=20
> domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on=20
> behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain=20
> further upstream).  Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE sessi=
on.
>
> I don=92t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of=20
> segment routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that=20
> everyone is targeting.  At some point we will want to do them and we=20
> do not want to re-do the work that we are doing today to make them work=
=2E
>
> Best regards
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pce mailing list
> Pce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce


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<html>
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      http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <font face=3D"Ubuntu">Hi Jonathan,<br>
      <br>
      I agree with you. The MSD is <font face=3D"Ubuntu">purely a local
        information attached to the router. <font face=3D"Ubuntu">T</font=
>o
        correctly manage this information<font face=3D"Ubuntu"> for
          Segment Path computa<font face=3D"Ubuntu">tion, the PCE must be=

            aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P
            routers. So, the best way is to a<font face=3D"Ubuntu">dd MSD=

              metric announcement in the router SR capabilities <font
                face=3D"Ubuntu">sub-TLV (see e.g. draft<font face=3D"Ubun=
tu">-ietf-isis-segment-ro<font
                    face=3D"Ubuntu">uting-extensions-03.txt page 23
                    section 3.1)<font face=3D"Ubuntu">. <font
                        face=3D"Ubuntu">So that, the PCE get the
                        information in its TED<font face=3D"Ubuntu"> on a=

                          <font face=3D"Ubuntu">per node basis. Then </fo=
nt></font></font>it
                      is not necessary to add it in the OPEN <font
                        face=3D"Ubuntu">message, but eventually, move it
                        on the PCRe<font face=3D"Ubuntu">q/PCInit/PCRept
                          message </font>as a cons<font face=3D"Ubuntu">t=
raint
                          for the SR path computation.</font></font></fon=
t><br>
                    <br>
                    <font face=3D"Ubuntu">Now, the main problem<font
                        face=3D"Ubuntu">, is who can be in charge to
                        propose this new MSD metric ? PCE WG<font
                          face=3D"Ubuntu">, </font>SPRING WG or IS<font
                          face=3D"Ubuntu">-IS/OSPF WG </font>?<br>
                        <br>
                        <font face=3D"Ubuntu">Regards,<br>
                          <br>
                          <font face=3D"Ubuntu">Olivier</font><br>
                        </font></font></font></font></font></font></font>=
</font></font></font></font><br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick=

      a =E9crit=A0:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite=3D"mid:09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBA012971AB0F@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.=
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      <div class=3D"WordSection1">
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I just wanted to clarify the comment that =
I
          made at the mic today as we seemed to be talking at
          cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the
          Open message, which effectively creates an implicit constraint
          on all queries that are sent over the PCEP session, such that
          returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater than
          the MSD.=A0 I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should
          instead be sent as an explicit constraint on each query.=A0 Her=
e
          is my reasoning.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the PCE architecture it is wrong to
          assume that the PCC and the ingress router are the same
          device.=A0 There are at least two cases where it is not.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"
          style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !=
supportLists]--><span
            style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=
=B7<span
                style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->In some network
          management architectures, the PCC is a network management
          tool.=A0 The network management tool may have many ingress
          routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it
          is not true to say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE
          session.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"
          style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !=
supportLists]--><span
            style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=
=B7<span
                style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->In inter-domain routing
          there is PCE-PCE communication between domains.=A0 One of the
          PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of all edge
          routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further
          upstream).=A0 Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE
          session.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=92t think that we should rule either=
 of
          these scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are not
          the first scenarios that everyone is targeting.=A0 At some poin=
t
          we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the work
          that we are doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
Pce mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.org">Pce@ie=
tf.org</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/pce">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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From: <rabah.guedrez@orange.com>
To: DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN <olivier.dugeon@orange.com>, Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi,
I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on this.
to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC architectures, the MSD should be =
considered as additional constraint by the path computation engine just lik=
e the BANDWIDTH,
the only scenario I can think of where the MSD must be announced by the PCC=
 is inter-PCE collaboration and the right place would be for it is PCReq.


I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.
considering only the PCC MSD and not the intermediate nodes by the path com=
putation engine will result in paths that don't behave as expected, (specia=
lly for load balancing
in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in its TED all the MSDs of all=
 the nodes (PE and P) in its domain, therefore the MSD should advertised by=
 the IGP (OSPF, ISIS,
BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path computation engine will conside=
r  the  MSDs of the ingress and intermediate to compute the path.



Best regards,
GUEDREZ Rabah

De : Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Olivier Dugeon
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31
=C0 : Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
Cc : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add MSD metric announcement in the router SR=
 capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-=
03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So that, the PCE get the information in its TE=
D on a per node basis. Then it is not necessary to add it in the OPEN messa=
ge, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a constra=
int for the SR path computation.

Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?

Regards,

Olivier
Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit :
Hi Jeff

I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we see=
med to be talking at cross-purposes.

The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively c=
reates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP se=
ssion, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater tha=
n the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent =
as an explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.

In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress =
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not.

=B7         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network =
management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress routers=
 in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say t=
hat the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.

=B7         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between =
domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of =
all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  =
Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.

I don't think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of segment =
routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is targetin=
g.  At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the w=
ork that we are doing today to make them work.

Best regards
Jon





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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I totally agre=
e with Olivier and Jonathan on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">to encompass a=
ll the varieties of PCE/PCC architectures, the MSD should be considered as =
additional constraint by the path computation engine just
 like the BANDWIDTH, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">the only scena=
rio I can think of where the MSD must be announced by the PCC is inter-PCE =
collaboration and the right place would be for it is PCReq.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I Agree with O=
livier a support his proposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">considering on=
ly the PCC MSD and not the intermediate nodes by the path computation engin=
e will result in paths that don&#8217;t behave as expected, (specially
 for load balancing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">in a loose pat=
h scenario ),the PCE must have in its TED all the MSDs of all the nodes (PE=
 and P) in its domain, therefore the MSD should advertised
 by the IGP (OSPF, ISIS,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">BGP-LS) just l=
ike the SRLGs, where the path computation engine will consider &nbsp;the &n=
bsp;MSDs of the ingress and intermediate to compute the path.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Best regards,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">GUEDREZ Rabah<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">De&nbsp;:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:windowtext"> Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>De la part de</b> Olivier Dugeon<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org; pce@ietf.or=
g<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Ubuntu&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Hi Jonathan,<br>
<br>
I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add
 MSD metric announcement in the router SR capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. dr=
aft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So th=
at, the PCE get the information in its TED on a per node basis. Then it is =
not necessary to add it in the OPEN
 message, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a c=
onstraint for the SR path computation.<br>
<br>
Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit&nbs=
p;:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at =
the mic today as we seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open messa=
ge, which effectively creates an implicit constraint on all queries that ar=
e sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have a SID =
stack depth greater than the MSD.&nbsp;
 I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent as an expli=
cit constraint on each query.&nbsp; Here is my reasoning.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that t=
he PCC and the ingress router are the same device.&nbsp; There are at least=
 two cases where it is not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span styl=
e=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>In some network management architectures, th=
e PCC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network management tool may h=
ave many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so=
 it is not true to say that the MSD is
 a constant for the PCC-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span styl=
e=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE com=
munication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and=
 is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some dom=
ain further upstream).&nbsp; Again, the MSD
 is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#8217;t think that we should rule either of th=
ese scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are not the first scenar=
ios that everyone is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we will want to do them=
 and we do not want to re-do the work that we
 are doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Pce mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.org">Pce@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce">https://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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From nobody Thu Mar 26 06:24:50 2015
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From: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
To: "rabah.guedrez@orange.com" <rabah.guedrez@orange.com>, "DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN" <olivier.dugeon@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Olivier, Rabah,

Please could you clarify something for me?  I'm not sure that the MSD of th=
e intermediate nodes has the same significance as the MSD of the ingress no=
de.  My understanding is that the ingress node is often limited by hardware=
 in the maximum depth of the SID stack that it can push onto each packet.  =
The intermediate nodes do not have to push SIDs - I thought that they would=
 just route on the top-most SID in the stack and sometimes remove the top-m=
ost SID from the stack.  If that's true then the MSD path constraint does n=
ot apply to them.  Have I misunderstood?

Best regards
Jon


From: rabah.guedrez@orange.com [mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com]
Sent: 26 March 2015 06:18
To: DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi,
I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on this.
to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC architectures, the MSD should be =
considered as additional constraint by the path computation engine just lik=
e the BANDWIDTH,
the only scenario I can think of where the MSD must be announced by the PCC=
 is inter-PCE collaboration and the right place would be for it is PCReq.


I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.
considering only the PCC MSD and not the intermediate nodes by the path com=
putation engine will result in paths that don't behave as expected, (specia=
lly for load balancing
in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in its TED all the MSDs of all=
 the nodes (PE and P) in its domain, therefore the MSD should advertised by=
 the IGP (OSPF, ISIS,
BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path computation engine will conside=
r  the  MSDs of the ingress and intermediate to compute the path.



Best regards,
GUEDREZ Rabah

De : Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Olivier Dugeon
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31
=C0 : Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
Cc : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-se=
gment-routing@tools.ietf.org>; pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>
Objet : Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add MSD metric announcement in the router SR=
 capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-=
03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So that, the PCE get the information in its TE=
D on a per node basis. Then it is not necessary to add it in the OPEN messa=
ge, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a constra=
int for the SR path computation.

Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?

Regards,

Olivier
Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit :
Hi Jeff

I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we see=
med to be talking at cross-purposes.

The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively c=
reates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP se=
ssion, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater tha=
n the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent =
as an explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.

In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress =
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not.

=B7         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network =
management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress routers=
 in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say t=
hat the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.

=B7         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between =
domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of =
all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  =
Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.

I don't think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of segment =
routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is targetin=
g.  At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the w=
ork that we are doing today to make them work.

Best regards
Jon




_______________________________________________

Pce mailing list

Pce@ietf.org<mailto:Pce@ietf.org>

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;

they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.

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<body bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Olivier, Rabah,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Please could you clari=
fy something for me?&nbsp; I&#8217;m not sure that the MSD of the intermedi=
ate nodes has the same significance as the MSD of the ingress node.&nbsp; M=
y understanding is that the ingress node is often limited
 by hardware in the maximum depth of the SID stack that it can push onto ea=
ch packet.&nbsp; The intermediate nodes do not have to push SIDs &#8211; I =
thought that they would just route on the top-most SID in the stack and som=
etimes remove the top-most SID from the stack.&nbsp;
 If that&#8217;s true then the MSD path constraint does not apply to them.&=
nbsp; Have I misunderstood?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Best regards<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jon<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> rabah.guedrez@orang=
e.com [mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 March 2015 06:18<br>
<b>To:</b> DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org; pce@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I totally agree with Olivi=
er and Jonathan on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">to encompass all the varie=
ties of PCE/PCC architectures, the MSD should be considered as additional c=
onstraint by the path computation engine just like the BANDWIDTH,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">the only scenario I can th=
ink of where the MSD must be announced by the PCC is inter-PCE collaboratio=
n and the right place would be for it is PCReq.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I Agree with Olivier a sup=
port his proposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">considering only the PCC M=
SD and not the intermediate nodes by the path computation engine will resul=
t in paths that don&#8217;t behave as expected, (specially for load
 balancing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">in a loose path scenario )=
,the PCE must have in its TED all the MSDs of all the nodes (PE and P) in i=
ts domain, therefore the MSD should advertised by the IGP
 (OSPF, ISIS,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">BGP-LS) just like the SRLG=
s, where the path computation engine will consider &nbsp;the &nbsp;MSDs of =
the ingress and intermediate to compute the path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">GUEDREZ Rabah<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">De&nbsp;=
:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> Pce [<a href=3D"mailt=
o:pce-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Olivier Dugeon<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.iet=
f.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"FR" sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;Ubuntu&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Hi Jonathan,<br>
<br>
I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add
 MSD metric announcement in the router SR capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. dr=
aft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So th=
at, the PCE get the information in its TED on a per node basis. Then it is =
not necessary to add it in the OPEN
 message, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a c=
onstraint for the SR path computation.<br>
<br>
Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier</span><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hard=
wick a =E9crit&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">I just wanted to clarify the comme=
nt that I made at the mic today as we seemed to be talking at cross-purpose=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">The draft sets a maximum SID depth=
 in the Open message, which effectively creates an implicit constraint on a=
ll queries that are sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths mu=
st not have a SID stack depth greater
 than the MSD.&nbsp; I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead=
 be sent as an explicit constraint on each query.&nbsp; Here is my reasonin=
g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">In the PCE architecture it is wron=
g to assume that the PCC and the ingress router are the same device.&nbsp; =
There are at least two cases where it is not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:Symbol=
"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"FR">In some network management=
 architectures, the PCC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network man=
agement tool may have many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a=
 different MSD, so it is not true to say
 that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:Symbol=
"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"FR">In inter-domain routing th=
ere is PCE-PCE communication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs plays t=
he role of PCC and is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (o=
r perhaps some domain further upstream).&nbsp;
 Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">I don&#8217;t think that we should=
 rule either of these scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are no=
t the first scenarios that everyone is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we wi=
ll want to do them and we do not want to re-do
 the work that we are doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"FR" sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">_______________________________________________<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">Pce mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.org">Pce@ietf.org</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce=
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
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tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o=
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<pre><span lang=3D"FR">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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From nobody Thu Mar 26 06:46:14 2015
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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:46:04 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Hello Jon,

Yes you agree. From the pure Segment Routing and MPLS point of view. 
Now, looking to load balancing, it is quiet different. When you setup 
LAG or Load Balancing, the router perform a hash on the packet header to 
determine on which interface to send the packet. In general, the has 
allow a router to send all packets that belongs to the same session goes 
to the same interface / path. Now, some hardware limitation impose a 
limitation on the size of the label stack in order to continue to 
operate the hash function on the IP header located after the label 
stack. In the label stack is too huge, the hash function will operate 
across the beginning of the IP header and the end of label stack 
resulting on non optimal session segregation. In some case it could not 
be acceptable and lead into problem from an operational point of view. 
For example, it could cause some packets de-ordering (packets of the 
same session not follow the same path) that could be not supported by 
some application e.g. VoIP.

So, if for example a PE router accept a MSD of 10 labels and a P router 
accept a MSD of 5 labels, the computed SR path must take into account 
that when reaching the P router, le Segment packet must not have a label 
stack greater than 5 (or 6 depending if the hash is perform before or 
after the POP operation).

Hope this clarify our requests.

Regards

Olivier

Le 26/03/2015 14:24, Jonathan Hardwick a écrit :
>
> Olivier, Rabah,
>
> Please could you clarify something for me?  I’m not sure that the MSD 
> of the intermediate nodes has the same significance as the MSD of the 
> ingress node.  My understanding is that the ingress node is often 
> limited by hardware in the maximum depth of the SID stack that it can 
> push onto each packet.  The intermediate nodes do not have to push 
> SIDs – I thought that they would just route on the top-most SID in the 
> stack and sometimes remove the top-most SID from the stack.  If that’s 
> true then the MSD path constraint does not apply to them. Have I 
> misunderstood?
>
> Best regards
>
> Jon
>
> *From:*rabah.guedrez@orange.com [mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com]
> *Sent:* 26 March 2015 06:18
> *To:* DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
>
> Hi,
>
> I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on this.
>
> to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC architectures, the MSD 
> should be considered as additional constraint by the path computation 
> engine just like the BANDWIDTH,
>
> the only scenario I can think of where the MSD must be announced by 
> the PCC is inter-PCE collaboration and the right place would be for it 
> is PCReq.
>
> I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.
>
> considering only the PCC MSD and not the intermediate nodes by the 
> path computation engine will result in paths that don’t behave as 
> expected, (specially for load balancing
>
> in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in its TED all the MSDs 
> of all the nodes (PE and P) in its domain, therefore the MSD should 
> advertised by the IGP (OSPF, ISIS,
>
> BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path computation engine will 
> consider  the  MSDs of the ingress and intermediate to compute the path.
>
> Best regards,
>
> GUEDREZ Rabah
>
> *De :*Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Olivier Dugeon
> *Envoyé :* jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31
> *À :* Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
> *Cc :* draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org>; pce@ietf.org 
> <mailto:pce@ietf.org>
> *Objet :* Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
>
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to 
> the router. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path 
> computation, the PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the 
> PE, but also the P routers. So, the best way is to add MSD metric 
> announcement in the router SR capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. 
> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03.txt page 23 section 
> 3.1). So that, the PCE get the information in its TED on a per node 
> basis. Then it is not necessary to add it in the OPEN message, but 
> eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a constraint 
> for the SR path computation.
>
> Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD 
> metric ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Olivier
>
> Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick a écrit :
>
>     Hi Jeff
>
>     I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today
>     as we seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.
>
>     The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which
>     effectively creates an implicit constraint on all queries that are
>     sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have
>     a SID stack depth greater than the MSD.  I think this is wrong,
>     and that the MSD should instead be sent as an explicit constraint
>     on each query.  Here is my reasoning.
>
>     In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the
>     ingress router are the same device.  There are at least two cases
>     where it is not.
>
>     ·In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network
>     management tool.  The network management tool may have many
>     ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so
>     it is not true to say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE
>     session.
>
>     ·In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between
>     domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on
>     behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain
>     further upstream).  Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE
>     session.
>
>     I don’t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of
>     segment routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that
>     everyone is targeting.  At some point we will want to do them and
>     we do not want to re-do the work that we are doing today to make
>     them work.
>
>     Best regards
>
>     Jon
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Pce mailing list
>
>     Pce@ietf.org  <mailto:Pce@ietf.org>
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
>
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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-- 
logo Orange <http://www.orange.com>

Olivier Dugeon
Senior research engineer in QoS and network control
Open Source Referent
Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/OPEN

fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
olivier.dugeon@orange.com <mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com>


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    Hello Jon,<br>
    <br>
    Yes you agree. From the pure Segment Routing and MPLS point of view.
    Now, looking to load balancing, it is quiet different. When you
    setup LAG or Load Balancing, the router perform a hash on the packet
    header to determine on which interface to send the packet. In
    general, the has allow a router to send all packets that belongs to
    the same session goes to the same interface / path. Now, some
    hardware limitation impose a limitation on the size of the label
    stack in order to continue to operate the hash function on the IP
    header located after the label stack. In the label stack is too
    huge, the hash function will operate across the beginning of the IP
    header and the end of label stack resulting on non optimal session
    segregation. In some case it could not be acceptable and lead into
    problem from an operational point of view. For example, it could
    cause some packets de-ordering (packets of the same session not
    follow the same path) that could be not supported by some
    application e.g. VoIP. <br>
    <br>
    So, if for example a PE router accept a MSD of 10 labels and a P
    router accept a MSD of 5 labels, the computed SR path must take into
    account that when reaching the P router, le Segment packet must not
    have a label stack greater than 5 (or 6 depending if the hash is
    perform before or after the POP operation).<br>
    <br>
    Hope this clarify our requests.<br>
    <br>
    Regards<br>
    <br>
    Olivier<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 26/03/2015 14:24, Jonathan Hardwick
      a écrit :<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Olivier, Rabah,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Please could
            you clarify something for me?  I’m not sure that the MSD of
            the intermediate nodes has the same significance as the MSD
            of the ingress node.  My understanding is that the ingress
            node is often limited by hardware in the maximum depth of
            the SID stack that it can push onto each packet.  The
            intermediate nodes do not have to push SIDs – I thought that
            they would just route on the top-most SID in the stack and
            sometimes remove the top-most SID from the stack.  If that’s
            true then the MSD path constraint does not apply to them. 
            Have I misunderstood?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com">rabah.guedrez@orange.com</a>
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com">mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> 26 March 2015 06:18<br>
                <b>To:</b> DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick;
                Jeff Tantsura<br>
                <b>Cc:</b>
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Pce] Comment on
                draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on
            this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC
            architectures, the MSD should be considered as additional
            constraint by the path computation engine just like the
            BANDWIDTH,
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">the only scenario I can think of where the MSD
            must be announced by the PCC is inter-PCE collaboration and
            the right place would be for it is PCReq.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">considering only the PCC MSD and not the
            intermediate nodes by the path computation engine will
            result in paths that don’t behave as expected, (specially
            for load balancing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in
            its TED all the MSDs of all the nodes (PE and P) in its
            domain, therefore the MSD should advertised by the IGP
            (OSPF, ISIS,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path
            computation engine will consider  the  MSDs of the ingress
            and intermediate to compute the path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US">GUEDREZ Rabah<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                  lang="FR">De :</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                lang="FR"> Pce [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                <b>De la part de</b> Olivier Dugeon<br>
                <b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31<br>
                <b>À :</b> Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
                <b>Cc :</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Objet :</b> Re: [Pce] Comment on
                draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Ubuntu&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"
            lang="FR">Hi Jonathan,<br>
            <br>
            I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information
            attached to the router. To correctly manage this information
            for Segment Path computation, the PCE must be aware of MSD
            of each router, not only the PE, but also the P routers. So,
            the best way is to add MSD metric announcement in the router
            SR capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g.
            draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03.txt page 23
            section 3.1). So that, the PCE get the information in its
            TED on a per node basis. Then it is not necessary to add it
            in the OPEN message, but eventually, move it on the
            PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a constraint for the SR path
            computation.<br>
            <br>
            Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose
            this new MSD metric ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?<br>
            <br>
            Regards,<br>
            <br>
            Olivier</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">Le 26/03/2015 00:23,
              Jonathan Hardwick a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">I just wanted to clarify
              the comment that I made at the mic today as we seemed to
              be talking at cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">The draft sets a maximum
              SID depth in the Open message, which effectively creates
              an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over
              the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have a
              SID stack depth greater than the MSD.  I think this is
              wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent as an
              explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">In the PCE architecture
              it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress router
              are the same device.  There are at least two cases where
              it is not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
              style="font-family:Symbol" lang="FR"><span
                style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                  &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">        
                </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="FR">In
              some network management architectures, the PCC is a
              network management tool.  The network management tool may
              have many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a
              different MSD, so it is not true to say that the MSD is a
              constant for the PCC-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
              style="font-family:Symbol" lang="FR"><span
                style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                  &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">        
                </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="FR">In
              inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication
              between domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC
              and is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain
              (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  Again, the MSD
              is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">I don’t think that we
              should rule either of these scenarios out of segment
              routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that
              everyone is targeting.  At some point we will want to do
              them and we do not want to re-do the work that we are
              doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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From nobody Thu Mar 26 07:56:56 2015
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Jonathan Hardwick'" <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
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Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org, pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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I just drew the attached to make sure there is clarity.
 
I think, in view of the existing implementations, it would be good to add the
function in a backward compatible way. I think this can be done by saying that
the maxStack on the Open becomes the default used in all computations for the
PCC unless a specific value is supplied on an individual computation request.
 
A
 
From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hardwick
Sent: 25 March 2015 23:23
To: Jeff Tantsura
Cc: pce@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
 
Hi Jeff
 
I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we seemed
to be talking at cross-purposes.
 
The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively
creates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP
session, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater than
the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent as an
explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.
 
In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not.
.         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network
management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress routers in
its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say that the
MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.
.         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between
domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of all
edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  Again,
the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.
 
I don't think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of segment
routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is targeting.
At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the work that
we are doing today to make them work.
 
Best regards
Jon
 

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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I just drew the =
attached to make sure there is clarity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I think, in view of =
the existing implementations, it would be good to add the function in a =
backward compatible way. I think this can be done by saying that the =
maxStack on the Open becomes the default used in all computations for =
the PCC unless a specific value is supplied on an individual computation =
request.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>A<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Pce =
[mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jonathan =
Hardwick<br><b>Sent:</b> 25 March 2015 23:23<br><b>To:</b> Jeff =
Tantsura<br><b>Cc:</b> pce@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Pce] =
Comment on =
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
Jeff<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at =
the mic today as we seemed to be talking at =
cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The draft =
sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively creates =
an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP =
session, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth =
greater than the MSD.&nbsp; I think this is wrong, and that the MSD =
should instead be sent as an explicit constraint on each query.&nbsp; =
Here is my reasoning.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In the PCE =
architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress router =
are the same device.&nbsp; There are at least two cases where it is =
not.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-=
family:Symbol'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]>In some network management architectures, =
the PCC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network management tool =
may have many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different =
MSD, so it is not true to say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE =
session.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-=
family:Symbol'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]>In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE =
communication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs plays the role of =
PCC and is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or =
perhaps some domain further upstream).&nbsp; Again, the MSD is not =
constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
don&#8217;t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of =
segment routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone =
is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we will want to do them and we do not =
want to re-do the work that we are doing today to make them =
work.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best regards<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jon<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
To: Olivier Dugeon <olivier.dugeon@orange.com>, Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, "rabah.guedrez@orange.com" <rabah.guedrez@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Hi,

Great discussion!

Let=92s try no to mix things.

  1.  Entropy labels (LB for ECMP/LAG) use case has been described in draft=
-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label, this ID defines new capability - RLD - Rea=
dable Label Depth which is used to define how <ELI, EL> (or multiple of tho=
se) should be instantiated.
  2.  draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc and draft-xu-ospf-mpls-elc define RLSDC -Reada=
ble Label Stack Deepth Capability which is used to advertise the capability=
 of the router to read a label stack of a particular depth.

Back to the original discussion =96 Jon is right =96 MSD is significant on =
the ingress only since only ingress knows total stack depth and is in charg=
e of pushing it.
Adrian=92s proposal looks good to me =96 we will discuss it among coauthors=
 and come back ASAP.

Thanks everyone for your valuable comments!

P.S. We should really agree on terminology :)

Cheers,
Jeff

From: Olivier Dugeon <olivier.dugeon@orange.com<mailto:olivier.dugeon@orang=
e.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 6:46 AM
To: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Har=
dwick@metaswitch.com>>, "rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@oran=
ge.com>" <rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com>>
Cc: "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-se=
gment-routing@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.o=
rg<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org>>, "pce@ietf.org<ma=
ilto:pce@ietf.org>" <pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>>, Jeff Tantsura <jef=
f.tantsura@ericsson.com<mailto:jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hello Jon,

Yes you agree. From the pure Segment Routing and MPLS point of view. Now, l=
ooking to load balancing, it is quiet different. When you setup LAG or Load=
 Balancing, the router perform a hash on the packet header to determine on =
which interface to send the packet. In general, the has allow a router to s=
end all packets that belongs to the same session goes to the same interface=
 / path. Now, some hardware limitation impose a limitation on the size of t=
he label stack in order to continue to operate the hash function on the IP =
header located after the label stack. In the label stack is too huge, the h=
ash function will operate across the beginning of the IP header and the end=
 of label stack resulting on non optimal session segregation. In some case =
it could not be acceptable and lead into problem from an operational point =
of view. For example, it could cause some packets de-ordering (packets of t=
he same session not follow the same path) that could be not supported by so=
me application e.g. VoIP.

So, if for example a PE router accept a MSD of 10 labels and a P router acc=
ept a MSD of 5 labels, the computed SR path must take into account that whe=
n reaching the P router, le Segment packet must not have a label stack grea=
ter than 5 (or 6 depending if the hash is perform before or after the POP o=
peration).

Hope this clarify our requests.

Regards

Olivier

Le 26/03/2015 14:24, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit :
Olivier, Rabah,

Please could you clarify something for me?  I=92m not sure that the MSD of =
the intermediate nodes has the same significance as the MSD of the ingress =
node.  My understanding is that the ingress node is often limited by hardwa=
re in the maximum depth of the SID stack that it can push onto each packet.=
  The intermediate nodes do not have to push SIDs =96 I thought that they w=
ould just route on the top-most SID in the stack and sometimes remove the t=
op-most SID from the stack.  If that=92s true then the MSD path constraint =
does not apply to them.  Have I misunderstood?

Best regards
Jon


From:rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com> [mailto:raba=
h.guedrez@orange.com]
Sent: 26 March 2015 06:18
To: DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-seg=
ment-routing@tools.ietf.org>; pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi,
I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on this.
to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC architectures, the MSD should be =
considered as additional constraint by the path computation engine just lik=
e the BANDWIDTH,
the only scenario I can think of where the MSD must be announced by the PCC=
 is inter-PCE collaboration and the right place would be for it is PCReq.


I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.
considering only the PCC MSD and not the intermediate nodes by the path com=
putation engine will result in paths that don=92t behave as expected, (spec=
ially for load balancing
in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in its TED all the MSDs of all=
 the nodes (PE and P) in its domain, therefore the MSD should advertised by=
 the IGP (OSPF, ISIS,
BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path computation engine will conside=
r  the  MSDs of the ingress and intermediate to compute the path.



Best regards,
GUEDREZ Rabah

De : Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Olivier Dugeon
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31
=C0 : Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
Cc : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-se=
gment-routing@tools.ietf.org>; pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>
Objet : Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add MSD metric announcement in the router SR=
 capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-=
03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So that, the PCE get the information in its TE=
D on a per node basis. Then it is not necessary to add it in the OPEN messa=
ge, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a constra=
int for the SR path computation.

Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?

Regards,

Olivier
Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit :
Hi Jeff

I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we see=
med to be talking at cross-purposes.

The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively c=
reates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP se=
ssion, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater tha=
n the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent =
as an explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.

In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress =
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not.

=B7         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network =
management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress routers=
 in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say t=
hat the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.

=B7         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between =
domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of =
all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  =
Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.

I don=92t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of segmen=
t routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is target=
ing.  At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the=
 work that we are doing today to make them work.

Best regards
Jon




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[logo Orange]<http://www.orange.com>



Olivier Dugeon
Senior research engineer in QoS and network control
Open Source Referent
Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/OPEN



fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
olivier.dugeon@orange.com<mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com>



--_000_D139687493E56jefftantsuraericssoncom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
Hi,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
Great discussion!</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
Let=92s try no to mix things.</div>
<ol>
<li style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-si=
ze: 14px;">
Entropy labels (LB for ECMP/LAG) use case has been described in&nbsp;draft-=
ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label, this ID defines new capability -&nbsp;RLD -=
 Readable Label Depth which is used to define how&nbsp;&lt;ELI, EL&gt; (or =
multiple of those) should be instantiated.</li><li><font face=3D"Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc and&nbsp;draft-xu-ospf-mpls-elc define&nbs=
p;</font><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">RLSDC -Readable Label&nbsp;</fon=
t><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Stack Deepth Capability=
 which is used
</span><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">to advertise the capability of the=
 router to read a&nbsp;</font><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">label stack=
 of a&nbsp;particular&nbsp;depth.</font></li></ol>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>Back to the original discussion =96 Jon is right =96 MSD is significan=
t on the ingress only since only ingress knows total stack depth and is in =
charge of pushing it.</div>
<div>Adrian=92s proposal looks good to me =96 we will discuss it among coau=
thors and come back ASAP.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks everyone for your valuable comments!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>P.S. We should really agree on terminology :)</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; "><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; ">Cheers,</span></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><font class=3D"Appl=
e-style-span" face=3D"Calibri">Jeff</font></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Olivier Dugeon &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com">olivier.dugeon@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 6=
:46 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Jonathan Hardwick &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com">Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.c=
om</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com">rabah.guedrez=
@orange.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com">rabah=
.guedrez@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tool=
s.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@t=
ools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com">jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Pce] Comment on draft=
-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">Hello Jon,<br>
<br>
Yes you agree. From the pure Segment Routing and MPLS point of view. Now, l=
ooking to load balancing, it is quiet different. When you setup LAG or Load=
 Balancing, the router perform a hash on the packet header to determine on =
which interface to send the packet.
 In general, the has allow a router to send all packets that belongs to the=
 same session goes to the same interface / path. Now, some hardware limitat=
ion impose a limitation on the size of the label stack in order to continue=
 to operate the hash function on
 the IP header located after the label stack. In the label stack is too hug=
e, the hash function will operate across the beginning of the IP header and=
 the end of label stack resulting on non optimal session segregation. In so=
me case it could not be acceptable
 and lead into problem from an operational point of view. For example, it c=
ould cause some packets de-ordering (packets of the same session not follow=
 the same path) that could be not supported by some application e.g. VoIP.
<br>
<br>
So, if for example a PE router accept a MSD of 10 labels and a P router acc=
ept a MSD of 5 labels, the computed SR path must take into account that whe=
n reaching the P router, le Segment packet must not have a label stack grea=
ter than 5 (or 6 depending if the
 hash is perform before or after the POP operation).<br>
<br>
Hope this clarify our requests.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Le 26/03/2015 14:24, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9=
crit&nbsp;:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBA012971ADB3@ENFICSMB=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Olivier, Rabah,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Please could you clari=
fy something for me?&nbsp; I=92m not sure that the MSD of the intermediate =
nodes has the same significance as the MSD of the ingress node.&nbsp; My un=
derstanding is that the ingress node is often limited
 by hardware in the maximum depth of the SID stack that it can push onto ea=
ch packet.&nbsp; The intermediate nodes do not have to push SIDs =96 I thou=
ght that they would just route on the top-most SID in the stack and sometim=
es remove the top-most SID from the stack.&nbsp;
 If that=92s true then the MSD path constraint does not apply to them.&nbsp=
; Have I misunderstood?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Best regards<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jon<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext;=
" lang=3D"EN-US"><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:rabah=
.guedrez@orange.com">rabah.guedrez@orange.com</a>
 [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.co=
m">mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 March 2015 06:18<br>
<b>To:</b> DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-=
pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a class=3D"moz-txt-link=
-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">
pce@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on th=
is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC archi=
tectures, the MSD should be considered as additional constraint by the path=
 computation engine just like the BANDWIDTH,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">the only scenario I can think of where the MSD =
must be announced by the PCC is inter-PCE collaboration and the right place=
 would be for it is PCReq.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">considering only the PCC MSD and not the interm=
ediate nodes by the path computation engine will result in paths that don=
=92t behave as expected, (specially for load
 balancing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in=
 its TED all the MSDs of all the nodes (PE and P) in its domain, therefore =
the MSD should advertised by the IGP (OSPF,
 ISIS,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path com=
putation engine will consider &nbsp;the &nbsp;MSDs of the ingress and inter=
mediate to compute the path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">GUEDREZ Rabah<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" lang=3D"FR">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext=
;" lang=3D"FR"> Pce [<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:pce-bounces=
@ietf.org">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Olivier Dugeon<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pce-=
segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a moz-do-not-send=3D"tr=
ue" href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">
pce@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily: Ubuntu, serif;" lang=3D"FR">Hi Jonathan,<br>
<br>
I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add
 MSD metric announcement in the router SR capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. dr=
aft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So th=
at, the PCE get the information in its TED on a per node basis. Then it is =
not necessary to add it in the OPEN
 message, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a c=
onstraint for the SR path computation.<br>
<br>
Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier</span><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hard=
wick a =E9crit&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">I just wanted to clarify the comme=
nt that I made at the mic today as we seemed to be talking at cross-purpose=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">The draft sets a maximum SID depth=
 in the Open message, which effectively creates an implicit constraint on a=
ll queries that are sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths mu=
st not have a SID stack depth greater
 than the MSD.&nbsp; I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead=
 be sent as an explicit constraint on each query.&nbsp; Here is my reasonin=
g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">In the PCE architecture it is wron=
g to assume that the PCC and the ingress router are the same device.&nbsp; =
There are at least two cases where it is not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"" lang=3D"FR"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family=
: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"FR">In some network manage=
ment architectures, the PCC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network=
 management tool may have many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each wi=
th a different MSD, so it is not true to
 say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"" lang=3D"FR"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family=
: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"FR">In inter-domain routin=
g there is PCE-PCE communication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs pla=
ys the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domai=
n (or perhaps some domain further upstream).&nbsp;
 Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">I don=92t think that we should rul=
e either of these scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are not th=
e first scenarios that everyone is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we will w=
ant to do them and we do not want to re-do
 the work that we are doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang=3D"FR"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">_______________________________________________<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">Pce mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR"><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.=
org">Pce@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR"><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"https://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/pce">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</a><o:=
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</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Hello Adrian,

I understand your point concerning the existing implementation and=20
backward compatibility which motivate your answer. Now, looking to your=20
picture, how the NMS/Controller acting as PCC know the MSD value of blue =

/ green / yellow routers ? especially if they are all different ? By=20
management plane ? I would not tomanage such database manually on large=20
network ( >1000 PE). Letting PE advertise their MSD in SR Router=20
capabilities will be safer.

There is also another problem. Suppose that on a router you have=20
different revision of hardware (common case in operational network where =

you mix in the same backplane different cards that support interfaces)=20
with different capabilities, resulting in different MSD.Indeed, in=20
general, label stacking is a hardware operation that take place in=20
interface or master cards where interface are located.
How could I manage this ?

Regards,

Olivier

Le 26/03/2015 15:54, Adrian Farrel a =E9crit :
>
> I just drew the attached to make sure there is clarity.
>
> I think, in view of the existing implementations, it would be good to=20
> add the function in a backward compatible way. I think this can be=20
> done by saying that the maxStack on the Open becomes the default used=20
> in all computations for the PCC unless a specific value is supplied on =

> an individual computation request.
>
> A
>
> *From:*Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Hardwi=
ck
> *Sent:* 25 March 2015 23:23
> *To:* Jeff Tantsura
> *Cc:* pce@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as=20
> we seemed to be talking at cross-purposes.
>
> The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which=20
> effectively creates an implicit constraint on all queries that are=20
> sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths must not have a=20
> SID stack depth greater than the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that =

> the MSD should instead be sent as an explicit constraint on each=20
> query.  Here is my reasoning.
>
> In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the=20
> ingress router are the same device.  There are at least two cases=20
> where it is not.
>
> =B7In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network=20
> management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress=20
> routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not=20
> true to say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.
>
> =B7In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between=20
> domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on=20
> behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain=20
> further upstream).  Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE sessi=
on.
>
> I don=92t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of=20
> segment routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that=20
> everyone is targeting.  At some point we will want to do them and we=20
> do not want to re-do the work that we are doing today to make them work=
=2E
>
> Best regards
>
> Jon
>
>
>
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    <font face=3D"Ubuntu">Hello Adrian,<br>
      <br>
      <font face=3D"Ubuntu">I understand your point concerning the
        existing implementation and backward compatibility which
        motivate your answer. Now, looking to your picture, how the
        NMS/Controller <font face=3D"Ubuntu">acting as PCC know the MSD
          value of blue / gr<font face=3D"Ubuntu">een / yellow <font
              face=3D"Ubuntu">routers ? <font face=3D"Ubuntu">especially<=
/font>
              if t<font face=3D"Ubuntu">hey are all different ? By
                management plane ? I would not to<font face=3D"Ubuntu">
                  manage such d<font face=3D"Ubuntu">atabase manually on =
<font
                      face=3D"Ubuntu">large network ( &gt;<font
                        face=3D"Ubuntu"> 1000 PE). Letting PE advertise
                        their MSD in SR Router capabilities will be
                        safer.<br>
                        <br>
                        <font face=3D"Ubuntu">There is also another
                          problem. Suppose that on a router you have
                          different revision of hardware (common case in
                          operation<font face=3D"Ubuntu">al network where=

                            you mix in the same backplane different
                            cards that support interfaces) with
                            different capabilities<font face=3D"Ubuntu">,=

                              resulting in different MSD.<font
                                face=3D"Ubuntu"> Indeed, in general, labe=
l
                                stacking is a hardware operation that
                                take place in interface or master cards
                                where interface are located.<br>
                                How could I manage this ?<br>
                                <br>
                                <font face=3D"Ubuntu">Regards,<br>
                                  <br>
                                  <font face=3D"Ubuntu">Olivier</font><br=
>
                                </font></font></font></font></font></font=
></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Le 26/03/2015 15:54, Adrian Farrel a
      =E9crit=A0:<br>
    </div>
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            style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
            New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">I just drew the attached to
            make sure there is clarity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
            style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
            New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=A0</o:p></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
            style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
            New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">I think, in view of the
            existing implementations, it would be good to add the
            function in a backward compatible way. I think this can be
            done by saying that the maxStack on the Open becomes the
            default used in all computations for the PCC unless a
            specific value is supplied on an individual computation
            request.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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            style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
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        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
            style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
            New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">A<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
            style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
            New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=A0</o:p></span></p>
        <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0c=
m
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span
                    style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times
                    New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
                    lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                  style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang=3D"EN-US"=
>
                  Pce [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:=
pce-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </=
b>Jonathan
                  Hardwick<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> 25 March 2015 23:23<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D=
"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>;
                  <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:dr=
aft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routi=
ng@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> [Pce] Comment on
                  draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p></o:p></span></p>=

            </div>
          </div>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I just wanted to clarify the comment tha=
t
            I made at the mic today as we seemed to be talking at
            cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft sets a maximum SID depth in th=
e
            Open message, which effectively creates an implicit
            constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP
            session, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack
            depth greater than the MSD.=A0 I think this is wrong, and tha=
t
            the MSD should instead be sent as an explicit constraint on
            each query.=A0 Here is my reasoning.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the PCE architecture it is wrong to
            assume that the PCC and the ingress router are the same
            device.=A0 There are at least two cases where it is not.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"
            style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if=
 !supportLists]--><span
style=3D"font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-=
family:Symbol"><span
                style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt
                  &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <=
/span></span></span><!--[endif]-->In
            some network management architectures, the PCC is a network
            management tool.=A0 The network management tool may have many=

            ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different
            MSD, so it is not true to say that the MSD is a constant for
            the PCC-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"
            style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if=
 !supportLists]--><span
style=3D"font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-=
family:Symbol"><span
                style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt
                  &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <=
/span></span></span><!--[endif]-->In
            inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between
            domains.=A0 One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is
            acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or
            perhaps some domain further upstream).=A0 Again, the MSD is
            not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=92t think that we should rule eith=
er
            of these scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are
            not the first scenarios that everyone is targeting.=A0 At som=
e
            point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do
            the work that we are doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
Pce mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.org">Pce@ie=
tf.org</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/pce">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------020609070301000302020103--


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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Olivier Dugeon'" <olivier.dugeon@orange.com>, "'Jonathan Hardwick'" <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
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Cc: pce@ietf.org, draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Hi,
=20
I just drew a picture to show a case where there is not a one-to-one
relationship between PCEP session and PCC.
=20
You have two questions:
=20
1. How does the PCC know the capabilities of the LSRs it controls and =
how does
it control them?
Answer: don't care :-)
=20
2. What if an LSR has different capabilities for different cards?
Answer: Easy solution is to use Jeff's picture (PCC is LSR) and my =
solution
(maxStack is a per PCReq parameter). But note that the choice of card =
might
depend on the selected first hop in the path, in which case you are =
going to
need to make maxStack a property of the links in the TED at least for =
the
ingress LSRs.
=20
A
=20
From: Olivier Dugeon [mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com]=20
Sent: 26 March 2015 17:26
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Jeff Tantsura'
Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
=20
Hello Adrian,

I understand your point concerning the existing implementation and =
backward
compatibility which motivate your answer. Now, looking to your picture, =
how the
NMS/Controller acting as PCC know the MSD value of blue / green / yellow =
routers
? especially if they are all different ? By management plane ? I would =
not to
manage such database manually on large network ( > 1000 PE). Letting PE
advertise their MSD in SR Router capabilities will be safer.

There is also another problem. Suppose that on a router you have =
different
revision of hardware (common case in operational network where you mix =
in the
same backplane different cards that support interfaces) with different
capabilities, resulting in different MSD. Indeed, in general, label =
stacking is
a hardware operation that take place in interface or master cards where
interface are located.
How could I manage this ?

Regards,

Olivier
Le 26/03/2015 15:54, Adrian Farrel a =E9crit :
I just drew the attached to make sure there is clarity.
=20
I think, in view of the existing implementations, it would be good to =
add the
function in a backward compatible way. I think this can be done by =
saying that
the maxStack on the Open becomes the default used in all computations =
for the
PCC unless a specific value is supplied on an individual computation =
request.
=20
A
=20
From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hardwick
Sent: 25 March 2015 23:23
To: Jeff Tantsura
Cc: pce@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
=20
Hi Jeff
=20
I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we =
seemed
to be talking at cross-purposes.
=20
The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which =
effectively
creates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the =
PCEP
session, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth =
greater than
the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent =
as an
explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.
=20
In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the =
ingress
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is =
not.
=B7         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a =
network
management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress =
routers in
its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say =
that the
MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.
=B7         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication =
between
domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf =
of all
edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  =
Again,
the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.
=20
I don=92t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of =
segment
routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is =
targeting.
At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the =
work that
we are doing today to make them work.
=20
Best regards
Jon
=20




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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>I just drew a picture to show a case where there =
is not a one-to-one relationship between PCEP session and =
PCC.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>You have two questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>1. How does the PCC know the capabilities of the =
LSRs it controls and how does it control them?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Answer: don't care :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>2. What if an LSR has different capabilities for =
different cards?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Answer: Easy solution is to use Jeff's picture =
(PCC is LSR) and my solution (maxStack is a per PCReq parameter). But =
note that the choice of card might depend on the selected first hop in =
the path, in which case you are going to need to make maxStack a =
property of the links in the TED at least for the ingress =
LSRs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>A<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";color:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> =
Olivier Dugeon [mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 26 =
March 2015 17:26<br><b>To:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; =
'Jeff Tantsura'<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org; =
pce@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Pce] Comment on =
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Ubuntu","serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Hello Adrian,<br><br>I understand your point concerning the =
existing implementation and backward compatibility which motivate your =
answer. Now, looking to your picture, how the NMS/Controller acting as =
PCC know the MSD value of blue / green / yellow routers ? especially if =
they are all different ? By management plane ? I would not to manage =
such database manually on large network ( &gt; 1000 PE). Letting PE =
advertise their MSD in SR Router capabilities will be =
safer.<br><br>There is also another problem. Suppose that on a router =
you have different revision of hardware (common case in operational =
network where you mix in the same backplane different cards that support =
interfaces) with different capabilities, resulting in different MSD. =
Indeed, in general, label stacking is a hardware operation that take =
place in interface or master cards where interface are located.<br>How =
could I manage this ?<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Olivier</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Le 26/03/2015 15:54, =
Adrian Farrel a =E9crit&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman =
\;color\:\#1F497D"'>I just drew the attached to make sure there is =
clarity.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman =
\;color\:\#1F497D"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman =
\;color\:\#1F497D"'>I think, in view of the existing implementations, it =
would be good to add the function in a backward compatible way. I think =
this can be done by saying that the maxStack on the Open becomes the =
default used in all computations for the PCC unless a specific value is =
supplied on an individual computation request.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman =
\;color\:\#1F497D"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman =
\;color\:\#1F497D"'>A</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman =
\;color\:\#1F497D"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'> Pce [<a =
href=3D"mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jonathan Hardwick<br><b>Sent:</b> 25 March 2015 =
23:23<br><b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-=
pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Pce] Comment =
on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
Jeff<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at =
the mic today as we seemed to be talking at =
cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The draft =
sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively creates =
an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP =
session, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth =
greater than the MSD.&nbsp; I think this is wrong, and that the MSD =
should instead be sent as an explicit constraint on each query.&nbsp; =
Here is my reasoning.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In the PCE =
architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress router =
are the same device.&nbsp; There are at least two cases where it is =
not.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-=
family:Symbol'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=B7<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]>In some network management architectures, =
the PCC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network management tool =
may have many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each with a different =
MSD, so it is not true to say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE =
session.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-=
family:Symbol'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=B7<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]>In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE =
communication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs plays the role of =
PCC and is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domain (or =
perhaps some domain further upstream).&nbsp; Again, the MSD is not =
constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
don&#8217;t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of =
segment routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone =
is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we will want to do them and we do not =
want to re-do the work that we are doing today to make them =
work.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best regards<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jon<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'><![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></=
p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><p=
re>Pce mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"mailto:Pce@ietf.org">Pce@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/pce</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: Sriganesh Kini <sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>, Olivier Dugeon <olivier.dugeon@orange.com>, Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, "rabah.guedrez@orange.com" <rabah.guedrez@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
Thread-Index: AdBnUqmGmqdQpQQXQvqi/1kiPeBWRQAbgHUAAAXYOoAABGvkgAAAv8cA//+hnACAAGAaAA==
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 20:52:13 +0000
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References: <09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBA012971AB0F@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk> <5513C3B0.2060600@orange.com> <26984_1427368686_5513EAEE_26984_1142_1_f953b647-329b-4275-9f95-45dc13fc5cdd@OPEXCLILMA1.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBA012971ADB3@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk> <55140D9C.1090602@orange.com> <D1396874.93E56%jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01
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Hi,

The PCE should take into account both the RLD and MSD when computing the la=
bel stack. Draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label has some examples.

Completely agree on aligning terminology. draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-la=
bel and draft-xu-ospf-mpls-elc also need to reconcile the acronyms RLD and =
RLSD. I also have a suggestion for draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing =96 Since=
 it is trying to express the maximum number of stack elements that can be p=
ushed at  the ingress, the appropriate acronym seems to be MSP (Maximum Sta=
ck PUSH-operations) capability.

Sri

From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com<mailto:jeff.tantsura@ericss=
on.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 8:08 AM
To: Olivier Dugeon <olivier.dugeon@orange.com<mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.=
com>>, Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.=
Hardwick@metaswitch.com>>, "rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@o=
range.com>" <rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com>>
Cc: "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-se=
gment-routing@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.o=
rg<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org>>, "pce@ietf.org<ma=
ilto:pce@ietf.org>" <pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>>, Sriganesh Kini <sr=
iganesh.kini@ericsson.com<mailto:sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com>>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi,

Great discussion!

Let=92s try no to mix things.

  1.  Entropy labels (LB for ECMP/LAG) use case has been described in draft=
-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label, this ID defines new capability - RLD - Rea=
dable Label Depth which is used to define how <ELI, EL> (or multiple of tho=
se) should be instantiated.
  2.  draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc and draft-xu-ospf-mpls-elc define RLSDC -Reada=
ble Label Stack Deepth Capability which is used to advertise the capability=
 of the router to read a label stack of a particular depth.

Back to the original discussion =96 Jon is right =96 MSD is significant on =
the ingress only since only ingress knows total stack depth and is in charg=
e of pushing it.
Adrian=92s proposal looks good to me =96 we will discuss it among coauthors=
 and come back ASAP.

Thanks everyone for your valuable comments!

P.S. We should really agree on terminology :)

Cheers,
Jeff

From: Olivier Dugeon <olivier.dugeon@orange.com<mailto:olivier.dugeon@orang=
e.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 6:46 AM
To: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Har=
dwick@metaswitch.com>>, "rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@oran=
ge.com>" <rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com>>
Cc: "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-se=
gment-routing@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.o=
rg<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org>>, "pce@ietf.org<ma=
ilto:pce@ietf.org>" <pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>>, Jeff Tantsura <jef=
f.tantsura@ericsson.com<mailto:jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hello Jon,

Yes you agree. From the pure Segment Routing and MPLS point of view. Now, l=
ooking to load balancing, it is quiet different. When you setup LAG or Load=
 Balancing, the router perform a hash on the packet header to determine on =
which interface to send the packet. In general, the has allow a router to s=
end all packets that belongs to the same session goes to the same interface=
 / path. Now, some hardware limitation impose a limitation on the size of t=
he label stack in order to continue to operate the hash function on the IP =
header located after the label stack. In the label stack is too huge, the h=
ash function will operate across the beginning of the IP header and the end=
 of label stack resulting on non optimal session segregation. In some case =
it could not be acceptable and lead into problem from an operational point =
of view. For example, it could cause some packets de-ordering (packets of t=
he same session not follow the same path) that could be not supported by so=
me application e.g. VoIP.

So, if for example a PE router accept a MSD of 10 labels and a P router acc=
ept a MSD of 5 labels, the computed SR path must take into account that whe=
n reaching the P router, le Segment packet must not have a label stack grea=
ter than 5 (or 6 depending if the hash is perform before or after the POP o=
peration).

Hope this clarify our requests.

Regards

Olivier

Le 26/03/2015 14:24, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit :
Olivier, Rabah,

Please could you clarify something for me?  I=92m not sure that the MSD of =
the intermediate nodes has the same significance as the MSD of the ingress =
node.  My understanding is that the ingress node is often limited by hardwa=
re in the maximum depth of the SID stack that it can push onto each packet.=
  The intermediate nodes do not have to push SIDs =96 I thought that they w=
ould just route on the top-most SID in the stack and sometimes remove the t=
op-most SID from the stack.  If that=92s true then the MSD path constraint =
does not apply to them.  Have I misunderstood?

Best regards
Jon


From:rabah.guedrez@orange.com<mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com> [mailto:raba=
h.guedrez@orange.com]
Sent: 26 March 2015 06:18
To: DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-seg=
ment-routing@tools.ietf.org>; pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi,
I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on this.
to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC architectures, the MSD should be =
considered as additional constraint by the path computation engine just lik=
e the BANDWIDTH,
the only scenario I can think of where the MSD must be announced by the PCC=
 is inter-PCE collaboration and the right place would be for it is PCReq.


I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.
considering only the PCC MSD and not the intermediate nodes by the path com=
putation engine will result in paths that don=92t behave as expected, (spec=
ially for load balancing
in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in its TED all the MSDs of all=
 the nodes (PE and P) in its domain, therefore the MSD should advertised by=
 the IGP (OSPF, ISIS,
BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path computation engine will conside=
r  the  MSDs of the ingress and intermediate to compute the path.



Best regards,
GUEDREZ Rabah

De : Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Olivier Dugeon
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31
=C0 : Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura
Cc : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-pce-se=
gment-routing@tools.ietf.org>; pce@ietf.org<mailto:pce@ietf.org>
Objet : Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01

Hi Jonathan,

I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add MSD metric announcement in the router SR=
 capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-=
03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So that, the PCE get the information in its TE=
D on a per node basis. Then it is not necessary to add it in the OPEN messa=
ge, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a constra=
int for the SR path computation.

Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?

Regards,

Olivier
Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9crit :
Hi Jeff

I just wanted to clarify the comment that I made at the mic today as we see=
med to be talking at cross-purposes.

The draft sets a maximum SID depth in the Open message, which effectively c=
reates an implicit constraint on all queries that are sent over the PCEP se=
ssion, such that returned paths must not have a SID stack depth greater tha=
n the MSD.  I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead be sent =
as an explicit constraint on each query.  Here is my reasoning.

In the PCE architecture it is wrong to assume that the PCC and the ingress =
router are the same device.  There are at least two cases where it is not.

=B7         In some network management architectures, the PCC is a network =
management tool.  The network management tool may have many ingress routers=
 in its jurisdiction, each with a different MSD, so it is not true to say t=
hat the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.

=B7         In inter-domain routing there is PCE-PCE communication between =
domains.  One of the PCEs plays the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of =
all edge routers in its domain (or perhaps some domain further upstream).  =
Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.

I don=92t think that we should rule either of these scenarios out of segmen=
t routing, even if they are not the first scenarios that everyone is target=
ing.  At some point we will want to do them and we do not want to re-do the=
 work that we are doing today to make them work.

Best regards
Jon




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Olivier Dugeon
Senior research engineer in QoS and network control
Open Source Referent
Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/OPEN



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Content-ID: <72ECD3696F26E84DB7411B5B8700C451@ericsson.com>
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The PCE should take into account both the RLD and MSD when computing t=
he label stack. Draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label has some examples.</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Completely agree on aligning terminology. draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entro=
py-label and draft-xu-ospf-mpls-elc also need to reconcile the acronyms RLD=
 and RLSD. I also have a suggestion for draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing =96 =
Since it is trying to express the
 maximum number of stack elements that can be pushed at &nbsp;the ingress, =
the appropriate acronym seems to be MSP (Maximum Stack PUSH-operations) cap=
ability.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sri</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com">jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 8=
:08 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Olivier Dugeon &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com">olivier.dugeon@orange.com</a>&gt;, Jonatha=
n Hardwick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com">Jonathan=
.Hardwick@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@ora=
nge.com">rabah.guedrez@orange.com</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com">rabah.guedrez@orange.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tool=
s.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@t=
ools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Sriganesh Kini &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com">sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com</a>&gt;=
<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Pce] Comment on draft=
-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
Hi,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
Great discussion!</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
Let=92s try no to mix things.</div>
<ol>
<li style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-si=
ze: 14px;">
Entropy labels (LB for ECMP/LAG) use case has been described in&nbsp;draft-=
ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label, this ID defines new capability -&nbsp;RLD -=
 Readable Label Depth which is used to define how&nbsp;&lt;ELI, EL&gt; (or =
multiple of those) should be instantiated.</li><li><font face=3D"Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc and&nbsp;draft-xu-ospf-mpls-elc define&nbs=
p;</font><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">RLSDC -Readable Label&nbsp;</fon=
t><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Stack Deepth Capability=
 which is used
</span><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">to advertise the capability of the=
 router to read a&nbsp;</font><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">label stack=
 of a&nbsp;particular&nbsp;depth.</font></li></ol>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>Back to the original discussion =96 Jon is right =96 MSD is significan=
t on the ingress only since only ingress knows total stack depth and is in =
charge of pushing it.</div>
<div>Adrian=92s proposal looks good to me =96 we will discuss it among coau=
thors and come back ASAP.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks everyone for your valuable comments!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>P.S. We should really agree on terminology :)</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; "><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; ">Cheers,</span></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><font class=3D"Appl=
e-style-span" face=3D"Calibri">Jeff</font></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px;">
<br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Olivier Dugeon &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com">olivier.dugeon@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 6=
:46 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Jonathan Hardwick &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com">Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.c=
om</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com">rabah.guedrez=
@orange.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com">rabah=
.guedrez@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tool=
s.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@t=
ools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com">jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Pce] Comment on draft=
-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">Hello Jon,<br>
<br>
Yes you agree. From the pure Segment Routing and MPLS point of view. Now, l=
ooking to load balancing, it is quiet different. When you setup LAG or Load=
 Balancing, the router perform a hash on the packet header to determine on =
which interface to send the packet.
 In general, the has allow a router to send all packets that belongs to the=
 same session goes to the same interface / path. Now, some hardware limitat=
ion impose a limitation on the size of the label stack in order to continue=
 to operate the hash function on
 the IP header located after the label stack. In the label stack is too hug=
e, the hash function will operate across the beginning of the IP header and=
 the end of label stack resulting on non optimal session segregation. In so=
me case it could not be acceptable
 and lead into problem from an operational point of view. For example, it c=
ould cause some packets de-ordering (packets of the same session not follow=
 the same path) that could be not supported by some application e.g. VoIP.
<br>
<br>
So, if for example a PE router accept a MSD of 10 labels and a P router acc=
ept a MSD of 5 labels, the computed SR path must take into account that whe=
n reaching the P router, le Segment packet must not have a label stack grea=
ter than 5 (or 6 depending if the
 hash is perform before or after the POP operation).<br>
<br>
Hope this clarify our requests.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Le 26/03/2015 14:24, Jonathan Hardwick a =E9=
crit&nbsp;:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBA012971ADB3@ENFICSMB=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Olivier, Rabah,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Please could you clari=
fy something for me?&nbsp; I=92m not sure that the MSD of the intermediate =
nodes has the same significance as the MSD of the ingress node.&nbsp; My un=
derstanding is that the ingress node is often limited
 by hardware in the maximum depth of the SID stack that it can push onto ea=
ch packet.&nbsp; The intermediate nodes do not have to push SIDs =96 I thou=
ght that they would just route on the top-most SID in the stack and sometim=
es remove the top-most SID from the stack.&nbsp;
 If that=92s true then the MSD path constraint does not apply to them.&nbsp=
; Have I misunderstood?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Best regards<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jon<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext;=
" lang=3D"EN-US"><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:rabah=
.guedrez@orange.com">rabah.guedrez@orange.com</a>
 [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.co=
m">mailto:rabah.guedrez@orange.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 March 2015 06:18<br>
<b>To:</b> DUGEON Olivier IMT/OLN; Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-=
pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a class=3D"moz-txt-link=
-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">
pce@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">I totally agree with Olivier and Jonathan on th=
is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">to encompass all the varieties of PCE/PCC archi=
tectures, the MSD should be considered as additional constraint by the path=
 computation engine just like the BANDWIDTH,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">the only scenario I can think of where the MSD =
must be announced by the PCC is inter-PCE collaboration and the right place=
 would be for it is PCReq.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">I Agree with Olivier a support his proposition.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">considering only the PCC MSD and not the interm=
ediate nodes by the path computation engine will result in paths that don=
=92t behave as expected, (specially for load
 balancing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">in a loose path scenario ),the PCE must have in=
 its TED all the MSDs of all the nodes (PE and P) in its domain, therefore =
the MSD should advertised by the IGP (OSPF,
 ISIS,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">BGP-LS) just like the SRLGs, where the path com=
putation engine will consider &nbsp;the &nbsp;MSDs of the ingress and inter=
mediate to compute the path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US">GUEDREZ Rabah<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" lang=3D"FR">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext=
;" lang=3D"FR"> Pce [<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:pce-bounces=
@ietf.org">mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Olivier Dugeon<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> jeudi 26 mars 2015 09:31<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> Jonathan Hardwick; Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-pce-=
segment-routing@tools.ietf.org">
draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a moz-do-not-send=3D"tr=
ue" href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">
pce@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [Pce] Comment on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-01<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily: Ubuntu, serif;" lang=3D"FR">Hi Jonathan,<br>
<br>
I agree with you. The MSD is purely a local information attached to the rou=
ter. To correctly manage this information for Segment Path computation, the=
 PCE must be aware of MSD of each router, not only the PE, but also the P r=
outers. So, the best way is to add
 MSD metric announcement in the router SR capabilities sub-TLV (see e.g. dr=
aft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03.txt page 23 section 3.1). So th=
at, the PCE get the information in its TED on a per node basis. Then it is =
not necessary to add it in the OPEN
 message, but eventually, move it on the PCReq/PCInit/PCRept message as a c=
onstraint for the SR path computation.<br>
<br>
Now, the main problem, is who can be in charge to propose this new MSD metr=
ic ? PCE WG, SPRING WG or IS-IS/OSPF WG ?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier</span><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Le 26/03/2015 00:23, Jonathan Hard=
wick a =E9crit&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Hi Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">I just wanted to clarify the comme=
nt that I made at the mic today as we seemed to be talking at cross-purpose=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">The draft sets a maximum SID depth=
 in the Open message, which effectively creates an implicit constraint on a=
ll queries that are sent over the PCEP session, such that returned paths mu=
st not have a SID stack depth greater
 than the MSD.&nbsp; I think this is wrong, and that the MSD should instead=
 be sent as an explicit constraint on each query.&nbsp; Here is my reasonin=
g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">In the PCE architecture it is wron=
g to assume that the PCC and the ingress router are the same device.&nbsp; =
There are at least two cases where it is not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"" lang=3D"FR"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family=
: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"FR">In some network manage=
ment architectures, the PCC is a network management tool.&nbsp; The network=
 management tool may have many ingress routers in its jurisdiction, each wi=
th a different MSD, so it is not true to
 say that the MSD is a constant for the PCC-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"" lang=3D"FR"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family=
: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"FR">In inter-domain routin=
g there is PCE-PCE communication between domains.&nbsp; One of the PCEs pla=
ys the role of PCC and is acting on behalf of all edge routers in its domai=
n (or perhaps some domain further upstream).&nbsp;
 Again, the MSD is not constant on the PCE-PCE session.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">I don=92t think that we should rul=
e either of these scenarios out of segment routing, even if they are not th=
e first scenarios that everyone is targeting.&nbsp; At some point we will w=
ant to do them and we do not want to re-do
 the work that we are doing today to make them work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang=3D"FR"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">_______________________________________________<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">Pce mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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</blockquote>
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