From nobody Fri Jan 4 02:29:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAD1130FE1; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 02:28:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.291 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.291 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A-WPi7yjdzSz; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 02:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A50F0130FE5; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 02:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 43WLc33VTXz5wQ1; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:28:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.32]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 43WLc32dcQz1xnx; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:28:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.193.71.36] (10.168.234.6) by OPEXCLILM32.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup (10.114.31.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:28:51 +0100 To: Jonathan Hardwick , Martin Vigoureux CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@ietf.org" , Dhruv Dhody , "pce@ietf.org" References: <154392697750.4587.12545741858167118657.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Organization: Orange Message-ID: <2178_1546597731_5C2F3563_2178_136_1_3683889e-1703-eb5d-3185-e626a4d68cce@orange.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:28:50 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: [10.168.234.6] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Martin Vigoureux's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2019 10:28:57 -0000 Hi guys and happy new year! :-) Would it temper the confusion below if we added the term "limitless" to the L flag definition (section 5.1.1.)? My 2 cents, Julien On 21/12/2018 18:14, Jonathan Hardwick wrote: > I believe it is too late to change but I find L=1 meaning "no limit" is *very* confusing. For me L stands for Limit and when L=1 there is a limit, when L=0 there is none. > > [Jon] Agree, both that it is confusing and too late to change :-) _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. 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client-ip=18.9.28.11; helo=outgoing.mit.edu; Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (18.9.28.11) by BY2NAM03FT030.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.84.214) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1471.13 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 00:39:47 +0000 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x060dh8l006042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:39:45 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:39:43 -0600 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Jonathan Hardwick CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@ietf.org" , Dhruv Dhody , "pce-chairs@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190106003943.GF28515@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <154362042021.27428.14843328031369141534.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Ip=[18.9.28.11]; Helo=[outgoing.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR01MB5532 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 00:39:56 -0000 On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 04:59:28PM +0000, Jonathan Hardwick wrote: > Hi Benjamin > > Sorry for the delayed response. Please find replies to your comments below. And my apologies as well for waiting until after the holidays to counter-respond. > Best regards > Jon > > > Abstract > > This document specifies extensions to the Path > Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) that allow a > stateful PCE to compute and initiate Traffic Engineering (TE) paths, > as well as a PCC to request a path subject to certain constraints and > optimization criteria in SR networks. > > Why are we talking about TE paths now instead of SR? > > [Jon] TE is the primary application for SR paths instantiated by a PCE. > > Section 1 > > Several types of segment are defined. A node segment represents an > ECMP-aware shortest-path to a specific node, and is always identified > uniquely within the SR/IGP domain. [...] > > A path to a node is only going to be unique if the starting node is also included, is it not? > > [Jon] I suggest we reword this to make it clearer: > > OLD > A node segment represents an > ECMP-aware shortest-path to a specific node, and is always identified > uniquely within the SR/IGP domain. > NEW > A node segment uniquely identifies a specific node in the SR domain. > Each router in the SR domain associates a node segment with an > ECMP-aware shortest path to the node that it identifies. > END That works for me, thanks. > Section 3 > > The sentences: > > In an SR network, the ingress node of an SR path prepends an SR > header to all outgoing packets. The SR header consists of a list of > SIDs (or MPLS labels in the context of this document). > > Appear virtually unchanged in both the start of the first paragraph and the middle of the second paragraph; is this duplication really needed? > > [Jon] No - we'll remove the redundant text. > > A PCC MAY include an RRO containing the recorded LSP in PCReq and > PCRpt messages as specified in [RFC5440] and [RFC8231], respectively. > This document defines a new RRO subobject for SR networks. The > methods used by a PCC to record the SR-TE LSP are outside the scope > of this document. > > It's not entirely clear that we need to define a standard container to carry site-local data when a site-local container could also be used. > > [Jon] Sorry, I don't understand your comment. The RRO is an existing PCEP object whose subobjects are used to describe the actual path taken by an LSP. We are adding subobjects to represent SIDs. I'm going from memory, and it's been some time since I read the document (so this could well be wrong), but I think I was thinking something like "we're defining a new type of subobject to represent SIDs, but the contents of that subobject are interpreted in a site-local manner. How is this different from just having site-local subobjects, with both the subobject type and its contents being site-local matters?" But this was just a non-blocking comment to start with, so if it doesn't make sense (or any other reason, really), feel free to drop the discussion -- I won't mind. > Section 5.2 > > Please expand SRP (and RP, for that matter) on first usage. > (Interestingly, https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/abbrev.expansion.txt > does not seem to have the correct expansion for this usage.) > > [Jon] Will do. > > Section 5.3.1 > > * C: If the M bit and the C bit are both set to 1, then the TC, > S, and TTL fields in the MPLS label stack entry are specified > by the PCE. However, a PCC MAY choose to override these values > according its local policy and MPLS forwarding rules. If the M > bit is set to 1 but the C bit is set to zero, then the TC, S, > and TTL fields MUST be ignored by the PCC. The PCC MUST set > these fields according to its local policy and MPLS forwarding > rules. [...] > > Must be ignored in incoming messages received from where? > > [Jon] There are two types of entity in PCEP - PCC (client) and PCE (server). In any exchange of messages, one speaker takes the role of PCC and the other PCE. Thus, "MUST be ignored by the PCC" implies that the messages are coming from the PCE. Okay. > Isn't the 'F' bit fully redundant with NT? > > [Jon] The F bit determines whether NAI is appended, or not. NT gives the type of the NAI that is appended. The NT field has no meaning if F=0. My (implicit) proposal was to assign a value for the NT field that means "no NAI is present", and to treat that value of NT as meaning that F=0, with any other value of NT meaning F=1, in which case the F bit does not add any new information. > Section 5.3.2 > > Do we need to say anything about which node is the reference point for evaluating "local" and "remote" w.r.t. IP addresses? (Maybe we don't, since these are always unidirectional adjacencies, right?) > > [Jon] Effectively, yes. An adjacency SID is always given within the context of a particular node - it is meaningful only on that node. So "local" and "remote" are defined by that context. Thanks for confirming! > Section 6.1 > > If a PCC sets the N flag to 1, then the PCE MAY send an SR-ERO > subobject containing NAI and no SID (see Section 6.2). Otherwise, > the PCE MUST NOT send an SR-ERO subobject containing NAI and no SID. > > Sets the N flag in what message? > > [Jon] This section is discussing capability exchange on the Open message. Okay, I must have been reading too fast. > If a PCE receives an > SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV with the L flag set to 1 then it MUST > ignore the MSD field and MUST assume that the sender can impose a SID > stack of any depth. [...] > > nit: this second MUST seems like overkill; "and assumes" would probably work fine. (Similarly for the following case.) > > [Jon] OK > > It's interesting that the routing protocols' MSD value supersedes the PCE-obtained one, given that all three (IS-IS, OSPF, and BGP-LS) documents have text to the effect of "PCEP provides a way to get this, but if PCEP is not used you can use our thing", which a naive reader would take to mean that PCEP is intended to be the primary distribution mechanism. > > [Jon] Probably needs to be fixed in the other documents. PCEP is a fairly blunt tool for specifying the MSD, which it can only do per node. The IGPs can do better by specifying the MSD per network interface. Ah. Unfortunately, at least the IS-IS document is already published as an RFC (8491) and thus immutable. (I didn't check the others.) I don't know whether it would be appropriate to add this explanation into this document since the other documents cannot (all) be changed. > Section 7 > > Is there some history regarding making it MUST-level mandatory to treat top-level SR-CAPABILITY-TLV in OPEN for backwards-compatibility (as opposed to SHOULD-level but leaving open the option of a strict implementation)? > (The guidance for what to do when both forms appear seems good to have at MUST-level, to me.) > > [Jon] The impact of not doing this is that you might not interoperate with a currently fielded implementation, which seemed serious enough to me for a MUST to apply. But I am open to discussion if you feel otherwise. I don't have a particular argument for changing it, other than the abstract possibility of an implementation that does not want to maintain the extra compatibility code and will accept the resulting breakage. Since I don't know how likely that would be, this remains an abstract thought and probably doesn't merit further discussion. > Section 9 > > RFC 8281's security considerations incorporate those of RFC 8231 by reference; we could save the reader a step and also mention it at the toplevel here. > > [Jon] OK > > I don't think it's a good idea to just refer to "the security mechanisms of [RFC 5440] and [RFC8281]", since there are qualitative differences between the TCP authentication schemes and the full-on encryption provided by TLS and IPsec. (Also, what exactly are the security mechanisms of RFC8281 supposed to be -- a quick look only sees the new guidance to apply resource > limits?) The second paragraph only requires integrity protection to avoid the vulnerability mentioned there, but the third paragraph requires confidentiality protection to preent the attack. > > [Jon] RFC 8281 pulls in RFC 8231 in its security section, as you note above. RFC 8231 says > > As a general precaution, it is RECOMMENDED that these PCEP extensions > only be activated on authenticated and encrypted sessions across PCEs > and PCCs belonging to the same administrative authority, using > Transport Layer Security (TLS) [PCEPS], as per the recommendations > and best current practices in [RFC7525]. That still doesn't seem to give the reader much guidance about which cases require encryption and which cases can safely proceed with just integrity protection (even though I'm happy to see the general recommendation to use TLS!). -Benjamin > Section 10.6 > > RFC 8408 does not "request" the creation of the registry; IANA has already created the registry. I would just say "[RFC8408] created a sub-registry [...]" but the smaller change to "requested" would be okay, too. > > [Jon] OK. From nobody Sun Jan 6 10:48:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7956812008A; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:48:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mKVBgj287ief; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:48:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com (mail-ed1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BE741288BD; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id a20so29213950edc.8; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 10:48:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Z3Qu74yY+K0vFrS7n7SNhw+V7TVFEBNiu5j2Z//20Kk=; b=KSicQlNATNb2rG1dE2no00KGG+uWJPdTV0BWQJA+rGwJyfzglPsaUJsma3W888To5E IXAuuy99MmCjV4LMOI+I3oypLs7gjQTC4xz7LeX1QjhuQ00ogmn45qG9k04yYu1g3y4L ddeNjZ/4PYw/j6c0lbErfwPD3HqOVloNotIejngUfyeSt9YkXCDKa0VbFjI0MrCCmIzh 9BipM5GwAjYk/fqtO9EbMRspfrT3h6cKpCiYlKsW6csd6J3nwnEUxlH7gTHxX7BMfSby N4n/xvn8RzFsieLU2ez50EF0KJEJ1I3auPJdeS+qtF5gr29hxEehclIcay3aMy09v/cU 7faA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Z3Qu74yY+K0vFrS7n7SNhw+V7TVFEBNiu5j2Z//20Kk=; b=QLVFIoc2sX3JQmHj3L0C9P0N68qy4Hdf4YSeeENl4ScquZEd+rsgxx+OL6wAfUeCDl iF55dlmGA/7oJG5I1L0DBaGiQ+NPpk2a3w9JyZjus8eBK4ImIPDog4d1mfdgGVXK5bqV 8TUpkzA8XxnxyQgUFfscQeJiVNxxyrKazyW1w6NcKtQUZQqTrr3M6MljMzAvQIrZaDoG 3mI9D/CHzCUs8SxzKNGXe/Qr61DwmtLwmF4DkTiVU+e6cK3d7HT/RR7SPR3AOfmC0dn5 FqTTu7GYd9ZP1IW6xT9/T0Mss7go+p1BOgVF6hYikqA/zgZ40p8RTxTE2D7nGxAjYNZJ VkHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbepbURFel0Sq+On5GS2d3bLqBxG0xhGM9rTe6MLxjLOf7uV9QZ 9FkT1aa36Mk/u3RwxmLusPTIBl0ieZHWu4Gdg0Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/Vx5Bp4HP55ipranhaXbtr9+bSB/wrinRAdi+ERSXH6eT67ERZds94RLVAL0crQXtakECA8HMT2rCWeTQ9BEr0= X-Received: by 2002:a50:bb2c:: with SMTP id y41mr53291432ede.147.1546800521816; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 10:48:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154362042021.27428.14843328031369141534.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20190106003943.GF28515@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: <20190106003943.GF28515@kduck.kaduk.org> From: Jeff Tantsura Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 10:48:30 -0800 Message-ID: To: Benjamin Kaduk Cc: Jonathan Hardwick , The IESG , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@ietf.org" , Dhruv Dhody , "pce-chairs@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a4446d057ece8f35" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 18:48:50 -0000 --000000000000a4446d057ece8f35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John/Ben, Happy New Year! Both OSPF and IS-IS MSD documents have been published. Wrt PCE - they merely state that if there=E2=80=99s no PCEP session between= nodes advertising and receiving this information, the receiving node has no other means to learn the MSD of the advertising node, since it is local to the node (while IGPs flood it to everyone). Having this in the IGP drafts and PCE draft stating that if both protocols advertise MSD, then IGP one should be preferred seemed clear enough (this had been discussed). >From granularity prospective - IGPs (BGP-LS) provide more details indeed as per interface MSD could be advertised (PCEP could do node MSD only). Hope this clarifies, Jeff On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 16:39 Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 04:59:28PM +0000, Jonathan Hardwick wrote: > > Hi Benjamin > > > > Sorry for the delayed response. Please find replies to your comments > below. > > And my apologies as well for waiting until after the holidays to > counter-respond. > > > Best regards > > Jon > > > > > > Abstract > > > > This document specifies extensions to the Path > > Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) that allow a > > stateful PCE to compute and initiate Traffic Engineering (TE) paths, > > as well as a PCC to request a path subject to certain constraints an= d > > optimization criteria in SR networks. > > > > Why are we talking about TE paths now instead of SR? > > > > [Jon] TE is the primary application for SR paths instantiated by a PCE. > > > > Section 1 > > > > Several types of segment are defined. A node segment represents an > > ECMP-aware shortest-path to a specific node, and is always identifie= d > > uniquely within the SR/IGP domain. [...] > > > > A path to a node is only going to be unique if the starting node is als= o > included, is it not? > > > > [Jon] I suggest we reword this to make it clearer: > > > > OLD > > A node segment represents an > > ECMP-aware shortest-path to a specific node, and is always identifie= d > > uniquely within the SR/IGP domain. > > NEW > > A node segment uniquely identifies a specific node in the SR domain. > > Each router in the SR domain associates a node segment with an > > ECMP-aware shortest path to the node that it identifies. > > END > > That works for me, thanks. > > > Section 3 > > > > The sentences: > > > > In an SR network, the ingress node of an SR path prepends an SR > > header to all outgoing packets. The SR header consists of a list of > > SIDs (or MPLS labels in the context of this document). > > > > Appear virtually unchanged in both the start of the first paragraph and > the middle of the second paragraph; is this duplication really needed? > > > > [Jon] No - we'll remove the redundant text. > > > > A PCC MAY include an RRO containing the recorded LSP in PCReq and > > PCRpt messages as specified in [RFC5440] and [RFC8231], respectively= . > > This document defines a new RRO subobject for SR networks. The > > methods used by a PCC to record the SR-TE LSP are outside the scope > > of this document. > > > > It's not entirely clear that we need to define a standard container to > carry site-local data when a site-local container could also be used. > > > > [Jon] Sorry, I don't understand your comment. The RRO is an existing > PCEP object whose subobjects are used to describe the actual path taken b= y > an LSP. We are adding subobjects to represent SIDs. > > I'm going from memory, and it's been some time since I read the document > (so this could well be wrong), but I think I was thinking something like > "we're defining a new type of subobject to represent SIDs, but the conten= ts > of that subobject are interpreted in a site-local manner. How is this > different from just having site-local subobjects, with both the subobject > type and its contents being site-local matters?" But this was just a > non-blocking comment to start with, so if it doesn't make sense (or any > other reason, really), feel free to drop the discussion -- I won't mind. > > > Section 5.2 > > > > Please expand SRP (and RP, for that matter) on first usage. > > (Interestingly, > https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/abbrev.expansion.txt > > does not seem to have the correct expansion for this usage.) > > > > [Jon] Will do. > > > > Section 5.3.1 > > > > * C: If the M bit and the C bit are both set to 1, then the TC, > > S, and TTL fields in the MPLS label stack entry are specified > > by the PCE. However, a PCC MAY choose to override these value= s > > according its local policy and MPLS forwarding rules. If the = M > > bit is set to 1 but the C bit is set to zero, then the TC, S, > > and TTL fields MUST be ignored by the PCC. The PCC MUST set > > these fields according to its local policy and MPLS forwarding > > rules. [...] > > > > Must be ignored in incoming messages received from where? > > > > [Jon] There are two types of entity in PCEP - PCC (client) and PCE > (server). In any exchange of messages, one speaker takes the role of PCC > and the other PCE. Thus, "MUST be ignored by the PCC" implies that the > messages are coming from the PCE. > > Okay. > > > Isn't the 'F' bit fully redundant with NT? > > > > [Jon] The F bit determines whether NAI is appended, or not. NT gives > the type of the NAI that is appended. The NT field has no meaning if F= =3D0. > > My (implicit) proposal was to assign a value for the NT field that means > "no NAI is present", and to treat that value of NT as meaning that F=3D0, > with any other value of NT meaning F=3D1, in which case the F bit does no= t > add any new information. > > > Section 5.3.2 > > > > Do we need to say anything about which node is the reference point for > evaluating "local" and "remote" w.r.t. IP addresses? (Maybe we don't, > since these are always unidirectional adjacencies, right?) > > > > [Jon] Effectively, yes. An adjacency SID is always given within the > context of a particular node - it is meaningful only on that node. So > "local" and "remote" are defined by that context. > > Thanks for confirming! > > > Section 6.1 > > > > If a PCC sets the N flag to 1, then the PCE MAY send an SR-ERO > > subobject containing NAI and no SID (see Section 6.2). Otherwise, > > the PCE MUST NOT send an SR-ERO subobject containing NAI and no SID. > > > > Sets the N flag in what message? > > > > [Jon] This section is discussing capability exchange on the Open messag= e. > > Okay, I must have been reading too fast. > > > If a PCE receives an > > SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV with the L flag set to 1 then it MUST > > ignore the MSD field and MUST assume that the sender can impose a SI= D > > stack of any depth. [...] > > > > nit: this second MUST seems like overkill; "and assumes" would probably > work fine. (Similarly for the following case.) > > > > [Jon] OK > > > > It's interesting that the routing protocols' MSD value supersedes the > PCE-obtained one, given that all three (IS-IS, OSPF, and BGP-LS) document= s > have text to the effect of "PCEP provides a way to get this, but if PCEP = is > not used you can use our thing", which a naive reader would take to mean > that PCEP is intended to be the primary distribution mechanism. > > > > [Jon] Probably needs to be fixed in the other documents. PCEP is a > fairly blunt tool for specifying the MSD, which it can only do per node. > The IGPs can do better by specifying the MSD per network interface. > > Ah. Unfortunately, at least the IS-IS document is already published as a= n > RFC (8491) and thus immutable. (I didn't check the others.) I don't kno= w > whether it would be appropriate to add this explanation into this documen= t > since the other documents cannot (all) be changed. > > > Section 7 > > > > Is there some history regarding making it MUST-level mandatory to treat > top-level SR-CAPABILITY-TLV in OPEN for backwards-compatibility (as oppos= ed > to SHOULD-level but leaving open the option of a strict implementation)? > > (The guidance for what to do when both forms appear seems good to have > at MUST-level, to me.) > > > > [Jon] The impact of not doing this is that you might not interoperate > with a currently fielded implementation, which seemed serious enough to m= e > for a MUST to apply. But I am open to discussion if you feel otherwise. > > I don't have a particular argument for changing it, other than the abstra= ct > possibility of an implementation that does not want to maintain the extra > compatibility code and will accept the resulting breakage. Since I don't > know how likely that would be, this remains an abstract thought and > probably doesn't merit further discussion. > > > Section 9 > > > > RFC 8281's security considerations incorporate those of RFC 8231 by > reference; we could save the reader a step and also mention it at the > toplevel here. > > > > [Jon] OK > > > > I don't think it's a good idea to just refer to "the security mechanism= s > of [RFC 5440] and [RFC8281]", since there are qualitative differences > between the TCP authentication schemes and the full-on encryption provide= d > by TLS and IPsec. (Also, what exactly are the security mechanisms of > RFC8281 supposed to be -- a quick look only sees the new guidance to appl= y > resource > > limits?) The second paragraph only requires integrity protection to > avoid the vulnerability mentioned there, but the third paragraph requires > confidentiality protection to preent the attack. > > > > [Jon] RFC 8281 pulls in RFC 8231 in its security section, as you note > above. RFC 8231 says > > > > As a general precaution, it is RECOMMENDED that these PCEP extension= s > > only be activated on authenticated and encrypted sessions across PCE= s > > and PCCs belonging to the same administrative authority, using > > Transport Layer Security (TLS) [PCEPS], as per the recommendations > > and best current practices in [RFC7525]. > > That still doesn't seem to give the reader much guidance about which case= s > require encryption and which cases can safely proceed with just integrity > protection (even though I'm happy to see the general recommendation to us= e > TLS!). > > -Benjamin > > > Section 10.6 > > > > RFC 8408 does not "request" the creation of the registry; IANA has > already created the registry. I would just say "[RFC8408] created a > sub-registry [...]" but the smaller change to "requested" would be okay, > too. > > > > [Jon] OK. > --000000000000a4446d057ece8f35 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John/Ben,

Happy New Year!

Both OSPF and IS-IS MSD document= s have been published.
Wrt PCE - they merely state that if there=E2=80= =99s no PCEP session between nodes advertising and receiving this informati= on, the receiving node has no other means to learn the MSD of the advertisi= ng node, since it is local to the node (while IGPs flood it to everyone).Having this in the IGP drafts and PCE draft stating that if both protocol= s advertise MSD, then IGP one should be preferred seemed clear enough (this= had been discussed).
From granularity prospective - IGPs (BGP-LS) provi= de more details indeed as per interface MSD could be advertised (PCEP could= do node MSD only).

Hope this clarifies,
Jeff


On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 16:39 Benjamin K= aduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:
<= /div>
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 04:59:28PM +000= 0, Jonathan Hardwick wrote:
> Hi Benjamin
>
> Sorry for the delayed response.=C2=A0 Please find replies to your comm= ents below.

And my apologies as well for waiting until after the holidays to
counter-respond.

> Best regards
> Jon
>
>
> Abstract
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 T= his document specifies extensions to the Path
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) that al= low a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 stateful PCE to compute and initiate Traffic Engineering = (TE) paths,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 as well as a PCC to request a path subject to certain con= straints and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 optimization criteria in SR networks.
>
> Why are we talking about TE paths now instead of SR?
>
> [Jon] TE is the primary application for SR paths instantiated by a PCE= .
>
> Section 1
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Several types of segment are defined.=C2=A0 A node segmen= t represents an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ECMP-aware shortest-path to a specific node, and is alway= s identified
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 uniquely within the SR/IGP domain.=C2=A0 [...]
>
> A path to a node is only going to be unique if the starting node is al= so included, is it not?
>
> [Jon] I suggest we reword this to make it clearer:
>
> OLD
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A node segment represents an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ECMP-aware shortest-path to a specific node, and is alway= s identified
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 uniquely within the SR/IGP domain.
> NEW
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A node segment uniquely identifies a specific node in the= SR domain.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Each router in the SR domain associates a node segment wi= th an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ECMP-aware shortest path to the node that it identifies.<= br> > END

That works for me, thanks.

> Section 3
>
> The sentences:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In an SR network, the ingress node of an SR path prepends= an SR
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 header to all outgoing packets.=C2=A0 The SR header consi= sts of a list of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SIDs (or MPLS labels in the context of this document). >
> Appear virtually unchanged in both the start of the first paragraph an= d the middle of the second paragraph; is this duplication really needed? >
> [Jon] No - we'll remove the redundant text.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A PCC MAY include an RRO containing the recorded LSP in P= CReq and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PCRpt messages as specified in [RFC5440] and [RFC8231], r= espectively.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document defines a new RRO subobject for SR networks= .=C2=A0 The
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 methods used by a PCC to record the SR-TE LSP are outside= the scope
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of this document.
>
> It's not entirely clear that we need to define a standard containe= r to carry site-local data when a site-local container could also be used.<= br> >
> [Jon] Sorry, I don't understand your comment.=C2=A0 The RRO is an = existing PCEP object whose subobjects are used to describe the actual path = taken by an LSP.=C2=A0 We are adding subobjects to represent SIDs.

I'm going from memory, and it's been some time since I read the doc= ument
(so this could well be wrong), but I think I was thinking something like "we're defining a new type of subobject to represent SIDs, but the= contents
of that subobject are interpreted in a site-local manner.=C2=A0 How is this=
different from just having site-local subobjects, with both the subobject type and its contents being site-local matters?"=C2=A0 But this was ju= st a
non-blocking comment to start with, so if it doesn't make sense (or any=
other reason, really), feel free to drop the discussion -- I won't mind= .

> Section 5.2
>
> Please expand SRP (and RP, for that matter) on first usage.
> (Interestingly, https://www.rfc-editor= .org/materials/abbrev.expansion.txt
> does not seem to have the correct expansion for this usage.)
>
> [Jon] Will do.
>
> Section 5.3.1
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*=C2=A0 C: If the M bit and the C bit are bo= th set to 1, then the TC,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 S, and TTL fields in the MPLS label = stack entry are specified
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the PCE.=C2=A0 However, a PCC MAY= choose to override these values
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 according its local policy and MPLS = forwarding rules.=C2=A0 If the M
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit is set to 1 but the C bit is set= to zero, then the TC, S,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and TTL fields MUST be ignored by th= e PCC.=C2=A0 The PCC MUST set
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 these fields according to its local = policy and MPLS forwarding
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rules.=C2=A0 [...]
>
> Must be ignored in incoming messages received from where?
>
> [Jon] There are two types of entity in PCEP - PCC (client) and PCE (se= rver).=C2=A0 In any exchange of messages, one speaker takes the role of PCC= and the other PCE.=C2=A0 Thus, "MUST be ignored by the PCC" impl= ies that the messages are coming from the PCE.

Okay.

> Isn't the 'F' bit fully redundant with NT?
>
> [Jon] The F bit determines whether NAI is appended, or not.=C2=A0 NT g= ives the type of the NAI that is appended.=C2=A0 The NT field has no meanin= g if F=3D0.

My (implicit) proposal was to assign a value for the NT field that means "no NAI is present", and to treat that value of NT as meaning tha= t F=3D0,
with any other value of NT meaning F=3D1, in which case the F bit does not<= br> add any new information.

> Section 5.3.2
>
> Do we need to say anything about which node is the reference point for= evaluating "local" and "remote" w.r.t. IP addresses?= =C2=A0 (Maybe we don't, since these are always unidirectional adjacenci= es, right?)
>
> [Jon] Effectively, yes.=C2=A0 An adjacency SID is always given within = the context of a particular node - it is meaningful only on that node.=C2= =A0 So "local" and "remote" are defined by that context= .

Thanks for confirming!

> Section 6.1
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If a PCC sets the N flag to 1, then the PCE MAY send an S= R-ERO
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 subobject containing NAI and no SID (see Section 6.2).=C2= =A0 Otherwise,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the PCE MUST NOT send an SR-ERO subobject containing NAI = and no SID.
>
> Sets the N flag in what message?
>
> [Jon] This section is discussing capability exchange on the Open messa= ge.

Okay, I must have been reading too fast.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If a PCE receives an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV with the L flag set to 1 then i= t MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ignore the MSD field and MUST assume that the sender can = impose a SID
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 stack of any depth.=C2=A0 [...]
>
> nit: this second MUST seems like overkill; "and assumes" wou= ld probably work fine.=C2=A0 (Similarly for the following case.)
>
> [Jon] OK
>
> It's interesting that the routing protocols' MSD value superse= des the PCE-obtained one, given that all three (IS-IS, OSPF, and BGP-LS) do= cuments have text to the effect of "PCEP provides a way to get this, b= ut if PCEP is not used you can use our thing", which a naive reader wo= uld take to mean that PCEP is intended to be the primary distribution mecha= nism.
>
> [Jon] Probably needs to be fixed in the other documents.=C2=A0 PCEP is= a fairly blunt tool for specifying the MSD, which it can only do per node.= =C2=A0 The IGPs can do better by specifying the MSD per network interface.<= br>
Ah.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, at least the IS-IS document is already published a= s an
RFC (8491) and thus immutable.=C2=A0 (I didn't check the others.)=C2=A0= I don't know
whether it would be appropriate to add this explanation into this document<= br> since the other documents cannot (all) be changed.

> Section 7
>
> Is there some history regarding making it MUST-level mandatory to trea= t top-level SR-CAPABILITY-TLV in OPEN for backwards-compatibility (as oppos= ed to SHOULD-level but leaving open the option of a strict implementation)?=
> (The guidance for what to do when both forms appear seems good to have= at MUST-level, to me.)
>
> [Jon] The impact of not doing this is that you might not interoperate = with a currently fielded implementation, which seemed serious enough to me = for a MUST to apply.=C2=A0 But I am open to discussion if you feel otherwis= e.

I don't have a particular argument for changing it, other than the abst= ract
possibility of an implementation that does not want to maintain the extra compatibility code and will accept the resulting breakage.=C2=A0 Since I do= n't
know how likely that would be, this remains an abstract thought and
probably doesn't merit further discussion.

> Section 9
>
> RFC 8281's security considerations incorporate those of RFC 8231 b= y reference; we could save the reader a step and also mention it at the top= level here.
>
> [Jon] OK
>
> I don't think it's a good idea to just refer to "the secu= rity mechanisms of [RFC 5440] and [RFC8281]", since there are qualitat= ive differences between the TCP authentication schemes and the full-on encr= yption provided by TLS and IPsec.=C2=A0 (Also, what exactly are the securit= y mechanisms of RFC8281 supposed to be -- a quick look only sees the new gu= idance to apply resource
> limits?)=C2=A0 The second paragraph only requires integrity protection= to avoid the vulnerability mentioned there, but the third paragraph requir= es confidentiality protection to preent the attack.
>
> [Jon] RFC 8281 pulls in RFC 8231 in its security section, as you note = above.=C2=A0 RFC 8231 says
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As a general precaution, it is RECOMMENDED that these PCE= P extensions
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 only be activated on authenticated and encrypted sessions= across PCEs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and PCCs belonging to the same administrative authority, = using
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Transport Layer Security (TLS) [PCEPS], as per the recomm= endations
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and best current practices in [RFC7525].

That still doesn't seem to give the reader much guidance about which ca= ses
require encryption and which cases can safely proceed with just integrity protection (even though I'm happy to see the general recommendation to = use
TLS!).

-Benjamin

> Section 10.6
>
> RFC 8408 does not "request" the creation of the registry; IA= NA has already created the registry.=C2=A0 I would just say "[RFC8408]= created a sub-registry [...]" but the smaller change to "request= ed" would be okay, too.
>
> [Jon] OK.
--000000000000a4446d057ece8f35-- From nobody Sun Jan 6 11:21:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A791412D4EC; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:20:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RveUhyOBuYG4; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com (mail-ed1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60925129BBF; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id p6so36130817eds.0; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:20:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=59DKJm1afULT/Rib0/R8MSUrhapergDxUD2obqrYvtM=; b=qsBtViEsSFv5YayEVF3DDk9xuW8Fvge77khhlCTiPdOsqnubNJhQpxTRk4zSHsiFqC P9BLRxjm7YxhcYsR3eJqpa4PmABW9s5SsHqk1sfP1HPXec0g4NMDrSpXaryJCG9Q2dpR EXPHxXBUXbobTnqVk1wVgBcF9tyUHzMtLq6CNMhmEu23pgbB/jRCwE6mDeNG2Bx2ZT5h HKsvU5fdZUvL6qyNdl7oNCqFccMfmR6jMmLysCXR4dGmA7CogrbOEPOn4+M72MZd0AsS 7WhBXwAPj4kURzsQKvifeUMl5NShsP9lmBOZkFc8YN+T9deq4YIazqo39AccSjbSW1ci jYQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=59DKJm1afULT/Rib0/R8MSUrhapergDxUD2obqrYvtM=; b=AENDWPRFaOhHTw8ILaczHLX30HjFeW+q2G6z29uWsBasCIgK/QApDxQd+6CG04AgfS Z1J9p4RTpUy4x6hFC9CvnoymOXI0bWIB3vwt+oRrdGFvKxj/I+aUMG6mT21xqmWJVrEZ acMJhS7a3+B57BVJJfGvvWP+M6WoKx1r6Wpteozo3Hzr9X624ImKZpX5t/MfD4dUWNoy d5jsk+urWlBElF2s8tcDk6BsV7G8ub9WLIW+4UG/YAVgrmelUC55b15YATYY9XD2zxIr pGs4zIQYb7jj1dxV6J7OHxgYUvUIKvuU5i+tQ5dcvBA/nFAIh5ILadXWi+8CiyBE66zL VpOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWY4+f/e0PJ1O2z7bu/18EO336KLhMSyTInyhYUnRAGr+i7ra76R yIKZYZxeCrPMWe7dN/T/Rc6/zSVe60g8ghyTiGA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/V+K2S5AR+xMq1lPGNN6YeAcKTkamnDksQf9F+eKMf9ZzQ0w1BWzoEYIOjwZwk5MlI74Zsge/lNc7mdG59QzyU= X-Received: by 2002:a50:b2e1:: with SMTP id p88mr52361857edd.254.1546802447776; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:20:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154392697750.4587.12545741858167118657.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2178_1546597731_5C2F3563_2178_136_1_3683889e-1703-eb5d-3185-e626a4d68cce@orange.com> In-Reply-To: <2178_1546597731_5C2F3563_2178_136_1_3683889e-1703-eb5d-3185-e626a4d68cce@orange.com> From: Jeff Tantsura Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:20:36 -0800 Message-ID: To: julien.meuric@orange.com Cc: Dhruv Dhody , Jonathan Hardwick , Martin Vigoureux , The IESG , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007000fa057ecf02bd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Martin Vigoureux's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 19:20:52 -0000 --0000000000007000fa057ecf02bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Julien, Happy New Year to you too. There=E2=80=99s a slight difference between limitless (e.g. unlimited) and = limit has not been been imposed (not configured/unknown/etc). I think =E2=80=9Climitless=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t convey the exact meani= ng. In simple terms - if L=3D1, don=E2=80=99t use MSD as a constraint in the path computation. Thanks, Jeff On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 02:28 wrote: > Hi guys and happy new year! :-) > > Would it temper the confusion below if we added the term "limitless" to > the L flag definition (section 5.1.1.)? > > My 2 cents, > > Julien > > > On 21/12/2018 18:14, Jonathan Hardwick wrote: > > I believe it is too late to change but I find L=3D1 meaning "no limit" = is > *very* confusing. For me L stands for Limit and when L=3D1 there is a lim= it, > when L=3D0 there is none. > > > > [Jon] Agree, both that it is confusing and too late to change :-) > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > --0000000000007000fa057ecf02bd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Julien,

Happy New Year to you too.
There=E2= =80=99s a slight difference between limitless (e.g. unlimited) and limit ha= s not been been imposed (not configured/unknown/etc).
I think =C2=A0=E2=80=9Climitless=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t convey the exac= t meaning. In simple terms - if L=3D1, don=E2=80=99t use MSD as a constrain= t in the path computation.

Thanks,
Jeff

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 02:28 <julien.meuric@orange.com> wrote:
Hi guys and happy new year! :-)

Would it temper the confusion below if we added the term "limitless&qu= ot; to
the L flag definition (section 5.1.1.)?

My 2 cents,

Julien


On 21/12/2018 18:14, Jonathan Hardwick wrote:
> I believe it is too late to change but I find L=3D1 meaning "no l= imit" is *very* confusing. For me L stands for Limit and when L=3D1 th= ere is a limit, when L=3D0 there is none.
>
> [Jon] Agree, both that it is confusing and too late to change :-)


___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message= s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

--0000000000007000fa057ecf02bd-- From nobody Mon Jan 7 01:13:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95947130E8F for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 01:13:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aHM4hvv7P9O7 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 01:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com [161.106.1.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4FD130E73 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 01:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 2421E561409 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:12:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr [10.192.117.12]) by p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200C85613C8 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:12:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id EDD7918152B for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:12:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.193.71.36] (l-at13891.rd.francetelecom.fr [10.193.71.36]) by p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C115C1814F1 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:12:45 +0100 (CET) To: pce@ietf.org References: <5fa37e45-96bc-42ec-fb41-da89568fc66a@orange.com> From: Julien Meuric Organization: Orange Message-ID: <40f6b628-7a20-4959-2fc6-358a1b34b2cc@orange.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:12:45 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5fa37e45-96bc-42ec-fb41-da89568fc66a@orange.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-PMX-Version: 6.4.6.2792898, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2019.1.7.90316, AntiVirus-Engine: 5.56.0, AntiVirus-Data: 2019.1.7.5560001 X-PMX-Spam: Gauge=X, Probability=10%, Report=' TO_IN_SUBJECT 0.5, HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_1000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_500_599 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, IN_REP_TO 0, LEGITIMATE_SIGNS 0, MSG_THREAD 0, REFERENCES 0, SINGLE_URI_IN_BODY 0, URI_WITH_PATH_ONLY 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __DQ_NEG_HEUR 0, __DQ_NEG_IP 0, __FORWARDED_MSG 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HTTPS_URI 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_TEXT_P 0, __MIME_TEXT_P1 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT 0, __NO_HTML_TAG_RAW 0, __REFERENCES 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SINGLE_URI_TEXT 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE 0, __SUBJ_REPLY 0, __TO_IN_SUBJECT2 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __URI_IN_BODY 0, __URI_NOT_IMG 0, __URI_NS , __URI_WITH_PATH 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-auto-bandwidth X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 09:13:08 -0000 Hi, This LC has ended, without pointed out issue. We will then move to shepherd review. Thanks, Julien On 13/12/2018 14:29, Julien Meuric wrote: > Hi all, > > This e-mail starts a 3-week PCE WG Last Call on > draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-auto-bandwidth-08. Please share your reviews > and comments using the mailing list by Friday January 5, 2019. > > Thank you, > > Julien > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > From nobody Mon Jan 7 01:37:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E74130DE7; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 01:36:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JS772b9rBenP; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 01:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com [161.106.1.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55710126BED; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 01:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id BFC005613A5; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:36:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr [10.192.117.12]) by p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FFB5613C3; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:36:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 39F3418152B; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:36:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.193.71.36] (l-at13891.rd.francetelecom.fr [10.193.71.36]) by p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02655181521; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:36:33 +0100 (CET) To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: Dhruv Dhody , Jonathan Hardwick , Martin Vigoureux , The IESG , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" References: <154392697750.4587.12545741858167118657.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2178_1546597731_5C2F3563_2178_136_1_3683889e-1703-eb5d-3185-e626a4d68cce@orange.com> From: Julien Meuric Organization: Orange Message-ID: <8ccb443d-56c3-539c-e7e9-6b370c2424f3@orange.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:36:33 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-PMX-Version: 6.4.6.2792898, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2019.1.7.93017, AntiVirus-Engine: 5.56.0, AntiVirus-Data: 2019.1.7.5560001 X-PMX-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report=' MULTIPLE_RCPTS 0.1, HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_1300_1399 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, IN_REP_TO 0, LEGITIMATE_SIGNS 0, MSG_THREAD 0, MULTIPLE_REAL_RCPTS 0, NO_URI_HTTPS 0, REFERENCES 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CC_NAME 0, __CC_NAME_DIFF_FROM_ACC 0, __CC_REAL_NAMES 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __DQ_NEG_HEUR 0, __DQ_NEG_IP 0, __FORWARDED_MSG 0, __HAS_CC_HDR 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HIGHBITS 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_TEXT_P 0, __MIME_TEXT_P1 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT 0, __MULTIPLE_RCPTS_CC_X2 0, __NO_HTML_TAG_RAW 0, __REFERENCES 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE 0, __SUBJ_REPLY 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NAME 0, __TO_NAME_DIFF_FROM_ACC 0, __TO_REAL_NAMES 0, __URI_NO_WWW 0, __URI_NS , __USER_AGENT 0' Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Martin Vigoureux's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 09:36:55 -0000 Hi Jeff, You're right. I certainly don't want to change the specification, nor to add another ambiguity. I was just looking for a mnemonic to mitigate the confusion pointed out by Martin, to be considered between bracket (leaving the definition as is). Would "limit-blind" make sense? Cheers, Julien On 06/01/2019 20:20, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Hi Julien, > > Happy New Year to you too. > There’s a slight difference between limitless (e.g. unlimited) and > limit has not been been imposed (not configured/unknown/etc). > I think  “limitless” doesn’t convey the exact meaning. In simple terms > - if L=1, don’t use MSD as a constraint in the path computation. > > Thanks, > Jeff > > On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 02:28 > wrote: > > Hi guys and happy new year! :-) > > Would it temper the confusion below if we added the term > "limitless" to > the L flag definition (section 5.1.1.)? > > My 2 cents, > > Julien > > > On 21/12/2018 18:14, Jonathan Hardwick wrote: > > I believe it is too late to change but I find L=1 meaning "no > limit" is *very* confusing. For me L stands for Limit and when L=1 > there is a limit, when L=0 there is none. > > > > [Jon] Agree, both that it is confusing and too late to change :-) > From nobody Mon Jan 7 03:33:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51314130DCD for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 03:33:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O90AQNkQW_Gp for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 03:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 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7 Jan 2019 11:33:36 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM529-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.14.47]) by dggemm422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:33:31 +0800 From: Huzhibo To: "jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Pce] Fwd: PCE-BSID Question to the List Thread-Index: AQHUdkBVDe1FIVZr20yEqsF4JbqEZ6WfAwZwgAUJLyA= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 11:33:30 +0000 Message-ID: <06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAD32E7E3@dggemm529-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.219.232] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAD32E7E3dggemm529mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Fwd: PCE-BSID Question to the List X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , 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[73.189.13.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m20sm91355133pgv.93.2019.01.10.07.39.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jan 2019 07:39:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 07:39:21 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Julien Meuric , Jonathan Hardwick Cc: Dhruv Dhody , Martin Vigoureux , The IESG , "=?utf-8?Q?draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?pce=40ietf.org?=" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <154392697750.4587.12545741858167118657.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2178_1546597731_5C2F3563_2178_136_1_3683889e-1703-eb5d-3185-e626a4d68cce@orange.com> <8ccb443d-56c3-539c-e7e9-6b370c2424f3@orange.com> X-Readdle-Message-ID: a49579b1-e5f3-4a92-b1ed-f7959b782bef@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5c37673e_24e99dd7_30f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Martin Vigoureux's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:39:53 -0000 --5c37673e_24e99dd7_30f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline +1 Jon Cheers, Jeff On Jan 10, 2019, 2:58 AM -0800, Jonathan Hardwick , wrote: > Hi Julien > > At the moment, the L bit is simply called =22the L bit=22 (not =22limit= =22 or =22limitless=22) and is defined like this: > > * L: A PCC sets this bit to 1 to indicate that it does not impose > any limit on the MSD. > > Although it might be the opposite of what you'd expect, I think the def= inition is nevertheless clear as it is written. > > Cheers > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > =46rom: Julien Meuric > Sent: Monday, 7 January, 2019 9:37 AM > To: Jeff Tantsura > Cc: Dhruv Dhody ; Jonathan Hardwick ; Martin Vigoureux ; The IESG ; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing=40ietf.org;= pce=40ietf.org > Subject: Re: Martin Vigoureux's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-= routing-14: (with COMMENT) > > Hi Jeff, > > You're right. I certainly don't want to change the specification, nor t= o add another ambiguity. I was just looking for a mnemonic to mitigate th= e confusion pointed out by Martin, to be considered between bracket (leav= ing the definition as is). > Would =22limit-blind=22 make sense=3F > > Cheers, > > Julien > > > On 06/01/2019 20:20, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > Hi Julien, > > > > Happy New Year to you too. > > There=E2=80=99s a slight difference between limitless (e.g. unlimited= ) and > > limit has not been been imposed (not configured/unknown/etc). > > I think =C2=A0=E2=80=9Climitless=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t convey the = exact meaning. In simple terms > > - if L=3D1, don=E2=80=99t use MSD as a constraint in the path computa= tion. > > > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > > On =46ri, Jan 4, 2019 at 02:28 > > wrote: > > > > Hi guys and happy new year=21 :-) > > > > Would it temper the confusion below if we added the term > > =22limitless=22 to > > the L flag definition (section 5.1.1.)=3F > > > > My 2 cents, > > > > Julien > > > > > > On 21/12/2018 18:14, Jonathan Hardwick wrote: > > > I believe it is too late to change but I find L=3D1 meaning =22no > > limit=22 is *very* confusing. =46or me L stands for Limit and when L=3D= 1 > > there is a limit, when L=3D0 there is none. > > > > > > =5BJon=5D Agree, both that it is confusing and too late to change > > :-) > > --5c37673e_24e99dd7_30f Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
+1 Jon

Cheers,
Jeff
On Jan 10, 2019= , 2:58 AM -0800, Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick=40metaswitch.com= >, wrote:
Hi Julien

At the moment, the L bit is simply called =22the L bit=22 (not =22limit=22= or =22limitless=22) and is defined like this:

* L: A PCC sets this bit to 1 to indicate that it does not impose
any limit on the MSD.

Although it might be the opposite of what you'd expect, I think the defin= ition is nevertheless clear as it is written.

Cheers
Jon

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric=40orange.com>
Sent: Monday, 7 January, 2019 9:37 AM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com>
Cc: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf=40gmail.com>; Jonathan Hardwick <Jon= athan.Hardwick=40metaswitch.com>; Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureu= x=40nokia.com>; The IESG <iesg=40ietf.org>; draft-ietf-pce-segme= nt-routing=40ietf.org; pce=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: Martin Vigoureux's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-segment-ro= uting-14: (with COMMENT)

Hi Jeff,

You're right. I certainly don't want to change the specification, nor to = add another ambiguity. I was just looking for a mnemonic to mitigate the = confusion pointed out by Martin, to be considered between bracket (leavin= g the definition as is).
Would =22limit-blind=22 make sense=3F

Cheers,

Julien


On 06/01/2019 20:20, Jeff Tantsura wrote:
Hi Julien,

Happy New Year to you too.
There=E2=80=99s a slight difference between limitless (e.g. unlimited) an= d
limit has not been been imposed (not configured/unknown/etc).
I think &=23160;=E2=80=9Climitless=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t convey the ex= act meaning. In simple terms
- if L=3D1, don=E2=80=99t use MSD as a constraint in the path computation= .

Thanks,
Jeff

On =46ri, Jan 4, 2019 at 02:28 <julien.meuric=40orange.com
<mailto:julien.meuric=40orange.com>> wrote:

Hi guys and happy new year=21 :-)

Would it temper the confusion below if we added the term
=22limitless=22 to
the L flag definition (section 5.1.1.)=3F

My 2 cents,

Julien


On 21/12/2018 18:14, Jonathan Hardwick wrote:
I believe it is too late to ch= ange but I find L=3D1 meaning =22no
limit=22 is *very* confusing. =46or me L stands for Limit and when L=3D1<= br /> there is a limit, when L=3D0 there is none.

=5BJon=5D Agree, both that it is confusing and too late to change
:-)

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Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:50:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <154749541305.9544.4076260657108816162@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:50:13 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:50:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : PCEP Extension for WSON Routing and Wavelength Assignment Authors : Young Lee Ramon Casellas Filename : draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-01-14 Abstract: This document provides the Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP) extensions for the support of Routing and Wavelength Assignment (RWA) in Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON). Path provisioning in WSONs requires a routing and wavelength assignment (RWA) process. From a path computation perspective, wavelength assignment is the process of determining which wavelength can be used on each hop of a path and forms an additional routing constraint to optical path computation. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jan 14 11:56:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D97131269; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:55:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k-U3LdowVpJl; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:55:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90D1713125F; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:55:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 64DD57DE72063437C5A5; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:55:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:55:46 +0000 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.25]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:55:43 -0800 From: Leeyoung To: Elwyn Davies , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext.all@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-10 Thread-Index: AQHUnsvUfuT69uigaUKe8yWBXY6366WquJFQ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:55:43 +0000 Message-ID: <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E173D0B856A@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <154601512215.21528.4440664780452895951@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154601512215.21528.4440664780452895951@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-10 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:55:54 -0000 SGkgRWx3eW4sDQoNCkZpcnN0IG9mIGFsbCwgcGxlYXNlIHRha2UgbXkgYXBvbG9neSBmb3IgdGhl IGRlbGF5IGluIGdldHRpbmcgYmFjayB0byB5b3UuDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciB2ZXJ5IHRo 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB4967 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-01-18_11:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=886 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901180141 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] IPR Check on draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-auto-bandwidth X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 19:43:28 -0000 Hi Julien I was away from my email in Dec. > A reply is required from each of you before we can proceed with publicati= on > request. " Apart from disclosure #2996, I am not aware of any other IPR that applies= to this draft" Regards Ravi > -----Original Message----- > From: julien.meuric@orange.com [mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2018 8:28 AM > To: draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-auto-bandwidth@ietf.org > Cc: pce@ietf.org > Subject: [Pce] IPR Check on draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-auto-bandwidth >=20 > Dear authors of draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-auto-bandwidth, >=20 > Could you please send an email to the PCE mailing list saying whether you > are aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-auto- > bandwidth beyond the one with the ID 2996. If so, please indicate if it h= as > been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules. (See RFCs 3979, 4879, 3= 669 > and 5378 for more details.) If you are not aware of other IPR that applie= s, > please reply saying "Appart from disclosure #2996, I am not aware of any > other IPR that applies to this draft". >=20 > A reply is required from each of you before we can proceed with publicati= on > request. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Julien >=20 >=20 > ________________________________________________________________ > _________________________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exp= loites > ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veu= illez > le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. L= es > messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline to= ute > responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, > used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete > this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. 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Fri, 25 Jan 2019 08:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 08:28:53 -0800 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <154402348655.31964.4799815580325046620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 08:28:53 -0800 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Hardwick Cc: "pce-chairs@ietf.org" , Dhruv Dhody , "pce@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ae32fe05804ad2b5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 16:28:59 -0000 --000000000000ae32fe05804ad2b5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On January 18, 2019 at 11:45:52 AM, Jonathan Hardwick ( jonathan.hardwick@metaswitch.com) wrote: Jon: Hi! I'm sorry that it has taken longer than I thought to reply to your comments! Please find our replies below. I will post an updated version of the document as soon as I can. Many thanks Jon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am balloting DISCUSS because I think that there are some technical and clarity issues that makes understanding, and potentially implementing this document hard. I also want to discuss the "backwards compatibility" and the use of TLVs as sub-TLVs in PCEP as introduced in this document. (1) MSD Definition. The MSD may be learned from a variety of sources, including the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV defined in this document. It is important then for the MSD to be defined consistently everywhere. Please use the BMI-MSD definition from rfc8491. [Jon] Happy to change this. This draft actually pre-dates RFC 8491, but now the definition has moved there, we can point to it. (2) Ability to signal the MSD per link, not just per node. Clearly the calculation of paths through specific links (using an Adjacency SID, for example) would require that information (if different/lower from what the node may support). Note that =C2=A76.1 seems to assume that the MSD will normally be advertise= d through different mechanisms, and it uses that to work around the fact that there's no link-specific information: "Furthermore, whenever a PCE learns the MSD for a link via different means, it MUST use that value for that link regardless of the MSD value exchanged in the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV." However, the text doesn't mandate the IGP/BGP-LS information to be available to the PCE. IOW, as written, the specification can't guarantee the proper calculation of paths that require the PCE to consider link MSDs. [Jon] In many deployments we anticipate that link MSDs are homogeneous. In those cases, link state routing might not distribute per-link MSDs (e.g. routers might not even support RFC 8491). In such cases, the per-node MSD on the PCEP session is sufficient. All the draft says is that MSD information available from link state routing, if any, must take priority over that defined on the PCEP session. I don't see a problem with that. (3) Extensibility to advertise other MSD-Types. [This point is not DISCUSS-worthy, but I'm including it here since I'm already talking about the MSD.] rfc8491 (aka I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd) and I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd encode the MSD advertisement as a pair: MSD-Type and MSD-Value, with the expectation that "new MSD-Types will be defined to signal additional capabilities, e.g., entropy labels, SIDs that can be imposed through recirculation, or SIDs associated with another data plane such as IPv6." IOW, the encoding is reusable with other dataplanes. I peeked into draft-negi-pce-segment-routing-ipv6 [*] and i don't see anything in there that couldn't be signaled using the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV defined here (+ the MSD_Value). I think this is important for consistency. [*] I realize that draft-negi-pce-segment-routing-ipv6 is not even a WG document, but it is the only potential reference I found to what a different dataplane might look line. [Jon] This document (and the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY) is scoped to MPLS only. I believe that draft-negi defines its own SRV6-PCE-CAPABILITY TLV and I don't see any reference to MSD in it, but if a new MSD type is needed for other dataplane types, I think it's expected that a new SR capability TLV will be defined to convey it. I don't expect to generalize the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY TLV. Note that the MSD in the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY is a BMI-MSD. Although RFC 8491 defines a generic MSD container, the MSD in this document is specifically a BMI-MSD. (4) =C2=A76.2.2 (Interpreting the SR-ERO): o If the subobjects contain NAI only, then the PCC first converts each NAI into a SID index value by looking it up in its local database, and then proceeds as above. I believe that this step in the interpretation of the SR-ERO is not properly specified. Which "local database" are you referring to? =C2=A76.2.2.1 mentions the SR-= DB (when talking about errors)...but the specification should be clear about which database and what the specific procedure is. [Jon] You are right, this should be more explicit. How about this. NEW If the subobjects contain NAI only, the PCC first converts each NAI into a SID index value and then proceeds as above. To convert an NAI to a SID index, the PCC looks for a fully-specified prefix or adjacency matching the fields in the NAI. If the PCC finds a matching prefix/adjacency, and the matching prefix/adjacency has a SID associated with it, then the PCC uses that SID. If the PCC cannot find a matching prefix/adjacency, or if the matching prefix/adjacency has no SID associated with it, the PCC behaves as specified in section 6.2.2.1. END NEW For example, what is the specific process that the PCC needs to follow to convert a Node ID/IP address to the SID/MPLS label? What if the SR-DB doesn't contain an SID associated to the specific Node ID/IP address? How should the router react to that? This case is not covered in the Error Handling section (6.2.2.1) either. [Jon] This is specified in 6.2.2.1. First bullet - if the prefix is found in the SR-DB but has no SID, send error TBD3. Second bullet - if the NAI is not found in the SR-DB, send error TBD4. A pointer to the SR-DB (as defined in I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy) is not enough because it is composed of optional information (according to the description in =C2=A73 (Segment Routing Database)). This document shoul= d be specific about what information must be contained in the SR-DB for the conversion to be successful. [Jon] Hopefully the new text proposed above will do that. The requirement of the information to be contained in the SR-DB makes I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy a Normative reference. [Jon] Rather than add an extra normative dependency, we would prefer to remove the dependency on the definition of the SR-DB and instead explicitly define in our document what information is to searched. (5) =C2=A77 (Backward Compatibility) "Some implementations, which are compl= iant with an earlier version of this specification..." I understand that there may be implementations that are non-compliant with this specification out in the field. However, why is this document making accommodations for them? Not only are these implementations not compliant with this document, but are also non compliant with rfc8408, which implies the use of a new sub-TLV per PST. I didn't find a discussion on the mailing list related to this issue. Specifying alternate behavior to accommodate non-compliant implementations is not the best way to define new functionality. If the support for those old implementations was an imperative then the new functionality should have been fully specified to seamlessly interoperate with what is already deployed. The current result is two ways to do the same thing... While I would prefer for this "backwards compatibility" not to be built into the specification, I am looking for discussion in the WG and a better justification that the current one (which can be reduced to "non-compliant implementations exist, so we need to fit them in here somehow"). [Jon] Yes, this section was painful to write, and was done after an on-list consultation with the working group. I can provide some references. The relevant thread starts here. https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05397.html We got firm feedback from one vendor that the old behaviour needed to be accommodated. https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05415.html There were good reasons for us changing the spec at a late stage, but this unfortunately left us needing to make a special case of the SR-CAPABILITY-TLV or else break a fielded implementation. So we collectively held our noses and did it. Hopefully, this plus the thread above gives you the background to the decision. (6) sub-TLV Space for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV rfc8408 failed to set up a sub-TLV registry for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV. The bigger issue is that it also doesn't say that other PCE TLVs can be used as sub-TLVs (nor does it prohibit that). The Type for the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV is allocated from the PCEP TLV Type Indicators registry, making it a TLV. I also couldn't find any mention of sub-TLVs in rfc5440, or the potential intent to have a single space from which both TLVs and sub-TLVs could come. The question is: are all TLVs (defined in the PCEP TLV Type Indicators registry) able to be used as sub-TLVs? This question is general, but also specific to the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV. At a minimum, it should be made clear which can be used with the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV -- because this is the first document to define a new PST and sub-TLV, it seems appropriate to Update rfc8408 here...but rfc5440 may also need an Update. [Jon] I don't think there is an intent that any TLV can be used as a sub-TLV. This argues for making a new registry for the sub-TLVs of the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV (although we will have a vestigial code point allocation for SR-PCE-CAPABILITY as a top-level TLV because of section 7). I think therefore that this draft should create the registry and update RFC 8408. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- These comments don't raise to the level of a DISCUSS, but I would like to also see them addressed. (1) [nit] "Both node segments and adjacency segments can be used for SR Traffic Engineering (SR-TE)." I find the use of SR-TE (instead of simply SR) gratuitous and potentially confusing; it introduces a new term which doesn't represent new functionality as compared to exiting segment routing documents. [Jon] OK (2) "This document is relevant to the MPLS forwarding plane only." I believe that I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls should be a Normative reference. [Jon] OK (3) In =C2=A73, the first two paragraphs have redundant text: "In an SR network, the ingress node of an SR path prepends an SR header to all outgoing packets. The SR header consists of a list of SIDs (or MPLS labels in the context of this document)....In SR networks, an ingress node of an SR path prepends an SR header to all outgoing packets. The SR header consists of a list of SIDs (or MPLS labels in the context of this document)." [Jon] Oops - I will delete the duplicate text from the 2nd para. (4) =C2=A73: "...the PCEP messages (e.g., Path Computation Request, Path Computation Reply, Path Computation Report, Path Computation Update, Path Computation Initiate, etc.,) MUST be formatted according to [RFC5440], [RFC8231], [RFC8281], and any other applicable PCEP specifications." I'm not sure what behavior is being specified here -- IOW, why do we need Normative language? This document defines the extensions referred to here, so the format should already be compliant with the RFCs mentioned. s/MUST/must [Jon] OK: "...the PCEP messages [...] are formatted according to..." (5) Following up from the last point... =C2=A74 seems to address that MUST = by saying that there's no requirement for "changes in the format of the PCReq and PCRep messages specified in [RFC5440], PCInitiate message specified in [RFC8281], and PCRpt and PCUpd messages specified in [RFC8231]." I find this section unnecessary. [Jon] Agreed - will remove it. (6) [nit] =C2=A75.3.1 defines the "L Flag"... =C2=A76.1, for example, uses = "L flag" to refer to the L bit (=C2=A75.1.1). Please try to be consistent to avoid confusion...or even better, use a different letter. [Jon] Yes, unfortunate that they have the same name. I'll clarify it. (7) =C2=A75.1.1 says that a "PCEP speaker SHOULD indicate its support of th= e function described in this document by sending a PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV...[and]...MUST also include the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV"...but =C2=A7= 6.1 then says that "if a PCE receives an SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV with the L flag and MSD both set to zero then it MUST assume that the PCC is not capable of imposing a SID stack of any depth and hence is not SR-TE capable". Wait, the sub-TLV is included because the TLV says that it supports SR. Isn't this then a contradiction?? What good is it to signal support if the node is "not capable of imposing a SID stack of any depth"? Shouldn't this combination result in an error message? [Jon] I can't think of any legitimate reason to signal that, so yes, this should probably be an error case instead. I'll update the draft. (8) =C2=A76.2.2 "According to [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy], eac= h SR-ERO subobject in the sequence identifies a segment that the traffic will be directed to, in the order given." The SR-ERO subobject is defined in this document, so its interpretation is of obvious importance. Because of that, I think that the text above makes the reference Normative. However, I looked in I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy and I find no mention of the SR-ERO, ERO, or sequence. The only related text (that I could find) is the generic one about SR being an "ordered list of segments"...so I think that the reference to I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy is out of place. Suggestion: replace the reference to I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy with a reference to rfc8402. [Jon] On reflection I'm not sure we need any reference for this fairly straightforward statement. I would amend it to: NEW The SR-ERO contains a sequence of subobjects. Each SR-ERO subobject in the sequence identifies a segment that the traffic will be directed to, in the order given. That is, the first subobject identifies the first segment the traffic will be directed to, the second subobject represents the second segment, and so on. END NEW (9) =C2=A76.2.2 "If the subobjects contain SID index values, then the PCC converts them into the corresponding MPLS labels by following the procedure defined in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls]." I think this statement requires I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls to be a Normative reference. [Jon] OK (10) =C2=A76.2.2 Only the third procedure ends with "...and then directs th= e packet to the segment identified by the first SID", which is the obvious next step, but the text is only talking about the conversion. Either make sure that it is clear that all the processes continue with sending, or take this piece of text out. Be consistent. [Jon] I'll remove it from the final bullet and then add this after the bullets: "For all cases above, after the PCC has imposed the label stack on the packet, it sends the packet to the segment identified by the first SID. " (11) =C2=A75.5 "...the PCE MUST minimize the SID depth of the computed path= ." If the B bit is not set (meaning not bound), what behavior is this phrase standardizing? Given that we're not standardizing the computation done by the PCE, how can it be enforced? [Jon] I think Martin pointed this out too. I think the normative language is inappropriate here. Instead: "... the PCE minimizes the SID depth..." The MUST can be used only in conjunction with B=3D1 since only then can the PCE's behaviour be enforced. (12) =C2=A78.1 (Controlling the Path Setup Type) I find this section out of place in this document. rfc8408 is the document that specifies the support for multiple path setup methods...while this document adds the SR-related type. If kept, then I think this document should be tagged to Update rfc8408. [Jon] I agree that most of this text is generic and could have been written in RFC 8408. I think we have already agreed to update RFC 8408, above, so there is presumably nothing more to do here. --000000000000ae32fe05804ad2b5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On January 18, 2019 at 11:45:52 AM, Jonathan Har= dwick (jonathan.hardwic= k@metaswitch.com) wrote:

Jon:

Hi!<= /div>
I'm s= orry that it has taken longer than I thought to reply to your comments! Pl= ease find our replies below. I will post an updated version of the documen= t as soon as I can.

Many thanks
Jon

<snip>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I am balloting DISCUSS because I think that there are some technical an= d clarity issues that makes understanding, and potentially implementing thi= s document hard. I also want to discuss the "backwards compatibility&= quot; and the use of TLVs as sub-TLVs in PCEP as introduced in this documen= t.

(1) MSD Definition. The MSD may be learned from a variety of sources, = including the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV defined in this document. It is im= portant then for the MSD to be defined consistently everywhere. Please use= the BMI-MSD definition from rfc8491.

[Jon] Happy to change this. This draft actually pre-dates RFC 8491, bu= t now the definition has moved there, we can point to it.


(2) Ability to signal the MSD per link, not just per node. Clearly the= calculation of paths through specific links (using an Adjacency SID, for
example) would require that information (if different/lower from what t= he node may support).

Note that =C2=A76.1 seems to assume that the MSD will normally be adver= tised through different mechanisms, and it uses that to work around the fac= t that there's no link-specific information: "Furthermore, wheneve= r a PCE learns the MSD for a link via different means, it MUST use that val= ue for that link regardless of the MSD value exchanged in the SR-PCE-CAPABI= LITY sub-TLV." However, the text doesn't mandate the IGP/BGP-LS i= nformation to be available to the PCE. IOW, as written, the specification = can't guarantee the proper calculation of paths that require the PCE to= consider link MSDs.

[Jon] In many deployments we anticipate that link MSDs are homogeneous.= In those cases, link state routing might not distribute per-link MSDs (e.= g. routers might not even support RFC 8491). In such cases, the per-node M= SD on the PCEP session is sufficient. All the draft says is that MSD infor= mation available from link state routing, if any, must take priority over t= hat defined on the PCEP session. I don't see a problem with that.


(3) Extensibility to advertise other MSD-Types. [This point is not DISC= USS-worthy, but I'm including it here since I'm already talking abo= ut the MSD.]

rfc8491 (aka I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd) and I-D.ietf-ospf-segme= nt-routing-msd encode the MSD advertisement as a pair:
MSD-Type and MSD-Value, with the expectation that "new MSD-Types w= ill be defined to signal additional capabilities, e.g., entropy labels, SID= s that can be imposed through recirculation, or SIDs associated with anothe= r data plane such as IPv6." IOW, the encoding is reusable with other = dataplanes. I peeked into draft-negi-pce-segment-routing-ipv6 [*] and i do= n't see anything in there that couldn't be signaled using the SR-PC= E-CAPABILITY sub-TLV defined here (+ the MSD_Value). I think this is impor= tant for consistency.

[*] I realize that draft-negi-pce-segment-routing-ipv6 is not even a WG= document, but it is the only potential reference I found to what a differe= nt dataplane might look line. =20

[Jon] This document (and the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY) is scoped to MPLS only.= I believe that draft-negi defines its own SRV6-PCE-CAPABILITY TLV and I d= on't see any reference to MSD in it, but if a new MSD type is needed fo= r other dataplane types, I think it's expected that a new SR capability= TLV will be defined to convey it. I don't expect to generalize the SR= -PCE-CAPABILITY TLV.

Note that the MSD in the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY is a BMI-MSD. Although RFC 8= 491 defines a generic MSD container, the MSD in this document is specifical= ly a BMI-MSD.


(4) =C2=A76.2.2 (Interpreting the SR-ERO):

o If the subobjects contain NAI only, then the PCC first converts
each NAI into a SID index value by looking it up in its local
database, and then proceeds as above.

I believe that this step in the interpretation of the SR-ERO is not pro= perly specified.

Which "local database" are you referring to? =C2=A76.2.2.1 m= entions the SR-DB (when talking about errors)...but the specification shoul= d be clear about which database and what the specific procedure is.

[Jon] You are right, this should be more explicit. How about this.

NEW
If the subobjects contain NAI only, the PCC first converts
each NAI into a SID index value and then proceeds as above.
To convert an NAI to a SID index, the PCC looks for a fully-specified
prefix or adjacency matching the fields in the NAI. If the PCC finds
a matching prefix/adjacency, and the matching prefix/adjacency has a = SID associated
with it, then the PCC uses that SID. If the PCC cannot find a
matching prefix/adjacency, or if the matching prefix/adjacency has no= SID associated
with it, the PCC behaves as specified in section 6.2.2.1.
END NEW


For example, what is the specific process that the PCC needs to follow = to convert a Node ID/IP address to the SID/MPLS label? What if the SR-DB d= oesn't contain an SID associated to the specific Node ID/IP address? H= ow should the router react to that? This case is not covered in the Error = Handling section
(6.2.2.1) either.

[Jon] This is specified in 6.2.2.1. First bullet - if the prefix is fo= und in the SR-DB but has no SID, send error TBD3. Second bullet - if the N= AI is not found in the SR-DB, send error TBD4.


A pointer to the SR-DB (as defined in I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-p= olicy)
is not enough because it is composed of optional information (according= to the description in =C2=A73 (Segment Routing Database)). This document = should be specific about what information must be contained in the SR-DB fo= r the conversion to be successful.

[Jon] Hopefully the new text proposed above will do that.


The requirement of the information to be contained in the SR-DB makes I= -D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy a Normative reference.

[Jon] Rather than add an extra normative dependency, we would prefer to= remove the dependency on the definition of the SR-DB and instead explicitl= y define in our document what information is to searched.


(5) =C2=A77 (Backward Compatibility) "Some implementations, which= are compliant with an earlier version of this specification..." <s= igh>

I understand that there may be implementations that are non-compliant w= ith this specification out in the field. However, why is this document mak= ing accommodations for them? Not only are these implementations not compli= ant with this document, but are also non compliant with rfc8408, which impl= ies the use of a new sub-TLV per PST.

I didn't find a discussion on the mailing list related to this issu= e. =20
Specifying alternate behavior to accommodate non-compliant implementati= ons is not the best way to define new functionality. If the support for th= ose old implementations was an imperative then the new functionality should= have been fully specified to seamlessly interoperate with what is already = deployed. The current result is two ways to do the same thing...

While I would prefer for this "backwards compatibility" not t= o be built into the specification, I am looking for discussion in the WG an= d a better justification that the current one (which can be reduced to &quo= t;non-compliant implementations exist, so we need to fit them in here someh= ow").

[Jon] Yes, this section was painful to write, and was done after an on-= list consultation with the working group. I can provide some references. = The relevant thread starts here.
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05397.html

We got firm feedback from one vendor that the old behaviour needed to b= e accommodated.
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05415.html

There were good reasons for us changing the spec at a late stage, but t= his unfortunately left us needing to make a special case of the SR-CAPABILI= TY-TLV or else break a fielded implementation. So we collectively held our= noses and did it. Hopefully, this plus the thread above gives you the bac= kground to the decision.


(6) sub-TLV Space for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV

rfc8408 failed to set up a sub-TLV registry for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAP= ABILITY TLV. The bigger issue is that it also doesn't say that other P= CE TLVs can be used as sub-TLVs (nor does it prohibit that). The Type for = the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV is allocated from the PCEP TLV Type Indicator= s registry, making it a TLV. I also couldn't find any mention of sub-T= LVs in rfc5440, or the potential intent to have a single space from which b= oth TLVs and sub-TLVs could come.

The question is: are all TLVs (defined in the PCEP TLV Type Indicators
registry) able to be used as sub-TLVs? This question is general, but a= lso specific to the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV. At a minimum, it shoul= d be made clear which can be used with the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV -= - because this is the first document to define a new PST and sub-TLV, it se= ems appropriate to Update rfc8408 here...but rfc5440 may also need an Updat= e.

[Jon] I don't think there is an intent that any TLV can be used as = a sub-TLV. This argues for making a new registry for the sub-TLVs of the P= ATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV (although we will have a vestigial code point= allocation for SR-PCE-CAPABILITY as a top-level TLV because of section 7).= I think therefore that this draft should create the registry and update R= FC 8408.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

These comments don't raise to the level of a DISCUSS, but I would l= ike to also see them addressed.

(1) [nit] "Both node segments and adjacency segments can be used f= or SR Traffic Engineering (SR-TE)." I find the use of SR-TE (instead o= f simply SR) gratuitous and potentially confusing; it introduces a new term= which doesn't represent new functionality as compared to exiting segme= nt routing documents.

[Jon] OK

(2) "This document is relevant to the MPLS forwarding plane only.&= quot; I believe that I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls should be a Norm= ative reference.

[Jon] OK

(3) In =C2=A73, the first two paragraphs have redundant text:

"In an SR network, the ingress node of an SR path prepends an SR h= eader to all outgoing packets. The SR header consists of a list of SIDs (o= r MPLS labels in the context of this document)....In SR networks, an ingres= s node of an SR path prepends an SR header to all outgoing packets. The SR= header consists of a list of SIDs (or MPLS labels in the context of this d= ocument)."

[Jon] Oops - I will delete the duplicate text from the 2nd para.

(4) =C2=A73: "...the PCEP messages (e.g., Path Computation Request= , Path Computation Reply, Path Computation Report, Path Computation Update,= Path Computation Initiate, etc.,) MUST be formatted according to [RFC5440]= , [RFC8231], [RFC8281], and any other applicable PCEP specifications."= I'm not sure what behavior is being specified here -- IOW, why do we = need Normative language? =20
This document defines the extensions referred to here, so the format sh= ould already be compliant with the RFCs mentioned. s/MUST/must

[Jon] OK: "...the PCEP messages [...] are formatted according to..= ."

(5) Following up from the last point... =C2=A74 seems to address that = MUST by saying that there's no requirement for "changes in the for= mat of the PCReq and PCRep messages specified in [RFC5440], PCInitiate mess= age specified in [RFC8281], and PCRpt and PCUpd messages specified in [RFC8= 231]." I find this section unnecessary.

[Jon] Agreed - will remove it.

(6) [nit] =C2=A75.3.1 defines the "L Flag"... =C2=A76.1, for= example, uses "L flag" to refer to the L bit (=C2=A75.1.1). Ple= ase try to be consistent to avoid confusion...or even better, use a differe= nt letter.

[Jon] Yes, unfortunate that they have the same name. I'll clarify = it.

(7) =C2=A75.1.1 says that a "PCEP speaker SHOULD indicate its supp= ort of the function described in this document by sending a PATH-SETUP-TYPE= -CAPABILITY TLV...[and]...MUST also include the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV&q= uot;...but =C2=A76.1 then says that "if a PCE receives an SR-PCE-CAPAB= ILITY sub-TLV with the L flag and MSD both set to zero then it MUST assume = that the PCC is not capable of
imposing a SID stack of any depth and hence is not SR-TE capable".= Wait, the
sub-TLV is included because the TLV says that it supports SR. Isn'= t this then a contradiction?? What good is it to signal support if the nod= e is "not capable of imposing a SID stack of any depth"? Shouldn= 't this combination result in an error message?

[Jon] I can't think of any legitimate reason to signal that, so yes= , this should probably be an error case instead. I'll update the draft= .


(8) =C2=A76.2.2 "According to [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-po= licy], each SR-ERO subobject in the sequence identifies a segment that the = traffic will be directed to, in the order given."

The SR-ERO subobject is defined in this document, so its interpretation= is of obvious importance. Because of that, I think that the text above ma= kes the reference Normative.

However, I looked in I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy and I find = no mention of the SR-ERO, ERO, or sequence. The only related text (that I = could
find) is the generic one about SR being an "ordered list of segmen= ts"...so I think that the reference to I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing= -policy is out of place.

Suggestion: replace the reference to I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-po= licy
with a reference to rfc8402.

[Jon] On reflection I'm not sure we need any reference for this fai= rly straightforward statement. I would amend it to:

NEW
The SR-ERO contains a sequence of subobjects. Each SR-ERO subobject= in
the sequence identifies a segment that the traffic will be directed
to, in the order given. That is, the first subobject identifies the
first segment the traffic will be directed to, the second =20
subobject represents the second segment, and so on.
END NEW

(9) =C2=A76.2.2 "If the subobjects contain SID index values, then = the PCC converts them into the corresponding MPLS labels by following the p= rocedure defined in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls]." I think = this statement requires I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls to be a Normat= ive reference.

[Jon] OK

(10) =C2=A76.2.2 Only the third procedure ends with "...and then = directs the packet to the segment identified by the first SID", which = is the obvious next step, but the text is only talking about the conversion= . Either make sure that it is clear that all the processes continue with s= ending, or take this piece of text out. Be consistent.

[Jon] I'll remove it from the final bullet and then add this after = the bullets: "For all cases above, after the PCC has imposed the label= stack on the packet, it sends the packet to the segment identified by the = first SID. "

(11) =C2=A75.5 "...the PCE MUST minimize the SID depth of the comp= uted path." If the B bit is not set (meaning not bound), what behavio= r is this phrase standardizing? Given that we're not standardizing the= computation done by the PCE, how can it be enforced?

[Jon] I think Martin pointed this out too. I think the normative langu= age is inappropriate here. Instead: "... the PCE minimizes the SID de= pth..." The MUST can be used only in conjunction with B=3D1 since onl= y then can the PCE's behaviour be enforced.

(12) =C2=A78.1 (Controlling the Path Setup Type) I find this section o= ut of place in this document. rfc8408 is the document that specifies the s= upport for multiple path setup methods...while this document adds the SR-re= lated type. If kept, then I think this document should be tagged to Update= rfc8408.

[Jon] I agree that most of this text is generic and could have been wri= tten in RFC 8408. I think we have already agreed to update RFC 8408, above= , so there is presumably nothing more to do here.


<= /body> --000000000000ae32fe05804ad2b5-- From nobody Fri Jan 25 09:47:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C7B130F3A; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:47:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fyTniZyBvs9r; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:47:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32a.google.com (mail-ot1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10748130F19; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:47:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id 81so9293274otj.2; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:47:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yw4pMKC7UqHOWIS85swEsBRsq2l69ngjsMEapXOHREs=; b=AMplx23w9dYBdLJHQTxopbDo201QHSnvsUrRypHL29WAvPLiO5sLZ+1ml0T1ArqCo+ zXY/bJKNQn9uZCPtkZu3x96R6KaPadOJLx2943G/RfqKtYvPB/XurGOgtjyyQDSDO0Mt foCzuXIrnT/5090hehTWSQkOgAndC3tCOL46WZcmqHhQgsK8PB23e/rUK7egtwJ/ijM1 HeO+4CT+6ezOckrNk+1k2R7HHTVCN90pJqmTufJRvIJvqUMwwOFAHSRsUaTy9OY63QBp LGCpCLsAxRHM2uCAgEOadZpT1Dl7EXgrfDYowh7BKXq+hMXQa2MwAVKatZfIJ7YMtdR2 FILA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yw4pMKC7UqHOWIS85swEsBRsq2l69ngjsMEapXOHREs=; b=r0HRjTHsXSgca8SfVpvbe/BIGORcnavR+nnsYdxaUiQtiEbYWvQhZZl9aLmBnbrYkT XHtUJokK3flcYHvI8S8vKLH3HP9QIjQilBUjK0zi2Bjvh1uLJxOgtcsDVvlvpMP9y+05 nlmaYw8jIEgeK4okt/fnKJDZ0l2kR1Lx8lIOO4rBLmRD8sp2ss0sfi5tYOvOZqNFx1Rp Z5ouHEDAYbx5Jc7G0d/Df43T/AhGivInvuXqdjvKW6BHMtDcsTAFrCk9ChvCD7+44wPE o32N7ee/Q66knHdZGyhe92EeDNGlI8ffUcpJNw/Bl4vbL2jqSjo57qoTrhtgQrwp8h7N 0alQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcLue+d1gJDMCvx/f7tHRuUoYHoaVlv9E4KaufXYzKeb3EZNnxO V9BBWQc6xYu+fxjjRuN0vk1fapoRAW2wsixmdMXdHw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6jjFBRf82phG1teDhk0s9qx6FMVgTXtfJs6GzO16S1zqQ1If/MSldT+gLEoFZYGgzbH8cDVirWXoD3jfyEzpM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:16d3:: with SMTP id l19mr8851569otr.50.1548438448259; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:47:27 -0800 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <154402348655.31964.4799815580325046620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:47:27 -0800 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Hardwick Cc: "pce-chairs@ietf.org" , Dhruv Dhody , "pce@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aa4bb505804beb56" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:47:33 -0000 --000000000000aa4bb505804beb56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On January 18, 2019 at 11:45:52 AM, Jonathan Hardwick ( jonathan.hardwick@metaswitch.com) wrote: Jon: Hi! Sorry for the empty message I sent before this one=E2=80=A6 I'm sorry that it has taken longer than I thought to reply to your comments! Please find our replies below. I will post an updated version of the document as soon as I can. I have some comments below. Thanks! Alvaro. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ... (2) Ability to signal the MSD per link, not just per node. Clearly the calculation of paths through specific links (using an Adjacency SID, for example) would require that information (if different/lower from what the node may support). Note that =C2=A76.1 seems to assume that the MSD will normally be advertise= d through different mechanisms, and it uses that to work around the fact that there's no link-specific information: "Furthermore, whenever a PCE learns the MSD for a link via different means, it MUST use that value for that link regardless of the MSD value exchanged in the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV." However, the text doesn't mandate the IGP/BGP-LS information to be available to the PCE. IOW, as written, the specification can't guarantee the proper calculation of paths that require the PCE to consider link MSDs. [Jon] In many deployments we anticipate that link MSDs are homogeneous. In those cases, link state routing might not distribute per-link MSDs (e.g. routers might not even support RFC 8491). In such cases, the per-node MSD on the PCEP session is sufficient. All the draft says is that MSD information available from link state routing, if any, must take priority over that defined on the PCEP session. I don't see a problem with that. Please include the description of the assumptions in the document. ... (4) =C2=A76.2.2 (Interpreting the SR-ERO): o If the subobjects contain NAI only, then the PCC first converts each NAI into a SID index value by looking it up in its local database, and then proceeds as above. I believe that this step in the interpretation of the SR-ERO is not properly specified. Which "local database" are you referring to? =C2=A76.2.2.1 mentions the SR-= DB (when talking about errors)...but the specification should be clear about which database and what the specific procedure is. [Jon] You are right, this should be more explicit. How about this. NEW If the subobjects contain NAI only, the PCC first converts each NAI into a SID index value and then proceeds as above. To convert an NAI to a SID index, the PCC looks for a fully-specified prefix or adjacency matching the fields in the NAI. If the PCC finds a matching prefix/adjacency, and the matching prefix/adjacency has a SID associated with it, then the PCC uses that SID. If the PCC cannot find a matching prefix/adjacency, or if the matching prefix/adjacency has no SID associated with it, the PCC behaves as specified in section 6.2.2.1. END NEW This sounds fine. For example, what is the specific process that the PCC needs to follow to convert a Node ID/IP address to the SID/MPLS label? What if the SR-DB doesn't contain an SID associated to the specific Node ID/IP address? How should the router react to that? This case is not covered in the Error Handling section (6.2.2.1) either. [Jon] This is specified in 6.2.2.1. First bullet - if the prefix is found in the SR-DB but has no SID, send error TBD3. Second bullet - if the NAI is not found in the SR-DB, send error TBD4. A pointer to the SR-DB (as defined in I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy) is not enough because it is composed of optional information (according to the description in =C2=A73 (Segment Routing Database)). This document shoul= d be specific about what information must be contained in the SR-DB for the conversion to be successful. [Jon] Hopefully the new text proposed above will do that. The requirement of the information to be contained in the SR-DB makes I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy a Normative reference. [Jon] Rather than add an extra normative dependency, we would prefer to remove the dependency on the definition of the SR-DB and instead explicitly define in our document what information is to searched. That=E2=80=99s fine with me too. (5) =C2=A77 (Backward Compatibility) "Some implementations, which are compl= iant with an earlier version of this specification..." I understand that there may be implementations that are non-compliant with this specification out in the field. However, why is this document making accommodations for them? Not only are these implementations not compliant with this document, but are also non compliant with rfc8408, which implies the use of a new sub-TLV per PST. I didn't find a discussion on the mailing list related to this issue. Specifying alternate behavior to accommodate non-compliant implementations is not the best way to define new functionality. If the support for those old implementations was an imperative then the new functionality should have been fully specified to seamlessly interoperate with what is already deployed. The current result is two ways to do the same thing... While I would prefer for this "backwards compatibility" not to be built into the specification, I am looking for discussion in the WG and a better justification that the current one (which can be reduced to "non-compliant implementations exist, so we need to fit them in here somehow"). [Jon] Yes, this section was painful to write, and was done after an on-list consultation with the working group. I can provide some references. The relevant thread starts here. https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05397.html Ah..it was under the discussion for draft-ietf-pce-lsp-setup-type/rfc8404. Not that it matters now, but I got a little lost as to why these provisions were not put into rfc8404=E2=80=A6maybe because of the SR-specific componen= t... We got firm feedback from one vendor that the old behaviour needed to be accommodated. https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05415.html There were good reasons for us changing the spec at a late stage, but this unfortunately left us needing to make a special case of the SR-CAPABILITY-TLV or else break a fielded implementation. So we collectively held our noses and did it. Hopefully, this plus the thread above gives you the background to the decision. :-( I wouldn=E2=80=99t call the feedback firm=E2=80=A6and it makes me very sad = to see the WG jumping through hoops to satisfy 1(!!) implementation, even if no one else replied on the list. :-( I realize it is too late to go back=E2=80=A6and that I would probably end u= p in the rough if we did. Once we clear up the remaining DISCUSS points (+ publish an update), I will be ABSTAINing. I haven=E2=80=99t checked in detail, but I suspect that keeping =C2=A77 cau= ses the Management Considerations to be incomplete because they don=E2=80=99t inclu= de the =E2=80=9Cbackwards compatible=E2=80=9D behavior. (6) sub-TLV Space for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV rfc8408 failed to set up a sub-TLV registry for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV. The bigger issue is that it also doesn't say that other PCE TLVs can be used as sub-TLVs (nor does it prohibit that). The Type for the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV is allocated from the PCEP TLV Type Indicators registry, making it a TLV. I also couldn't find any mention of sub-TLVs in rfc5440, or the potential intent to have a single space from which both TLVs and sub-TLVs could come. The question is: are all TLVs (defined in the PCEP TLV Type Indicators registry) able to be used as sub-TLVs? This question is general, but also specific to the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV. At a minimum, it should be made clear which can be used with the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV -- because this is the first document to define a new PST and sub-TLV, it seems appropriate to Update rfc8408 here...but rfc5440 may also need an Update. [Jon] I don't think there is an intent that any TLV can be used as a sub-TLV. This argues for making a new registry for the sub-TLVs of the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV (although we will have a vestigial code point allocation for SR-PCE-CAPABILITY as a top-level TLV because of section 7). I think therefore that this draft should create the registry and update RFC 8408. The other option (to avoid the duplication) is to make it explicit that the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY TLV can (only?) be used as a sub-TLV of the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV=E2=80=A6. As mentioned above, rfc8408 do= esn=E2=80=99t prohibit this, and because the space is so big it may not be an issue. I=E2=80=99m ok with your other answers. Thanks! Alvaro. --000000000000aa4bb505804beb56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On January 18, 2019 at 11:45:52 AM, Jonathan Har= dwick (jonathan.hardwic= k@metaswitch.com) wrote:

Jon:

Hi!<= /div>

Sorry for the empty= message I sent before this one=E2=80=A6


I'm sorry that it has taken longer = than I thought to reply to your comments! Please find our replies below. I = will post an updated version of the document as soon as I can.=C2=A0

I have some comments below.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


--= --------------------------------------------------------------------=C2=A0
DISCUSS:=C2=A0
---------------------------------------= -------------------------------=C2=A0=
...
(2) Ability to signal the MSD per link, not just per node= . Clearly the calculation of paths through specific links (using an Adjacen= cy SID, for=C2=A0
example) = would require that information (if different/lower from what the node may s= upport).=C2=A0

Note tha= t =C2=A76.1 seems to assume that the MSD will normally be advertised throug= h different mechanisms, and it uses that to work around the fact that there= 's no link-specific information: "Furthermore, whenever a PCE lear= ns the MSD for a link via different means, it MUST use that value for that = link regardless of the MSD value exchanged in the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV= ." However, the text doesn't mandate the IGP/BGP-LS information to= be available to the PCE. IOW, as written, the specification can't guar= antee the proper calculation of paths that require the PCE to consider link= MSDs.=C2=A0

[Jon] In m= any deployments we anticipate that link MSDs are homogeneous. In those case= s, link state routing might not distribute per-link MSDs (e.g. routers migh= t not even support RFC 8491). In such cases, the per-node MSD on the PCEP s= ession is sufficient. All the draft says is that MSD information available = from link state routing, if any, must take priority over that defined on th= e PCEP session. I don't see a problem with that.=C2=A0

Please= include the description of the assumptions in the document.


=

...

(4) =C2=A76.2.2 (Interpreting the SR-ERO):=C2=A0

o If the subobjects contain NAI only, then= the PCC first converts=C2=A0<= br>each NAI into a SID index value by looking it up in its local=C2=A0
database, and then proceeds as = above.=C2=A0

I believe = that this step in the interpretation of the SR-ERO is not properly specifie= d.=C2=A0

Which "lo= cal database" are you referring to? =C2=A76.2.2.1 mentions the SR-DB (= when talking about errors)...but the specification should be clear about wh= ich database and what the specific procedure is.=C2=A0

[Jon] You are right, this should be more ex= plicit. How about this.=C2=A0<= br>
NEW=C2=A0
If the sub= objects contain NAI only, the PCC first converts=C2=A0
each NAI into a SID index value and then procee= ds as above.=C2=A0
To conve= rt an NAI to a SID index, the PCC looks for a fully-specified=C2=A0
prefix or adjacency matching the f= ields in the NAI. If the PCC finds=C2= =A0
a matching prefix/adjacency, and the matching prefix/adjacenc= y has a SID associated=C2=A0with it, then the PCC uses that SID. If the PCC cannot find a=C2=A0
matching prefix/adjacency, or i= f the matching prefix/adjacency has no SID associated=C2=A0
with it, the PCC behaves as specified in s= ection 6.2.2.1.=C2=A0
END N= EW=C2=A0

This sounds fine.


For example, what is the sp= ecific process that the PCC needs to follow to convert a Node ID/IP address= to the SID/MPLS label? What if the SR-DB doesn't contain an SID associ= ated to the specific Node ID/IP address? How should the router react to tha= t? This case is not covered in the Error Handling section=C2=A0
(6.2.2.1) either.=C2=A0

[Jon] This is specified in 6.2.2.1. F= irst bullet - if the prefix is found in the SR-DB but has no SID, send erro= r TBD3. Second bullet - if the NAI is not found in the SR-DB, send error TB= D4.=C2=A0


A pointer= to the SR-DB (as defined in I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy)=C2=A0
is not enough because it is= composed of optional information (according to the description in =C2=A73 = (Segment Routing Database)). This document should be specific about what in= formation must be contained in the SR-DB for the conversion to be successfu= l.=C2=A0

[Jon] Hopefull= y the new text proposed above will do that.=C2=A0


The requirement of the information to be con= tained in the SR-DB makes I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy a Normativ= e reference.=C2=A0

[Jon= ] Rather than add an extra normative dependency, we would prefer to remove = the dependency on the definition of the SR-DB and instead explicitly define= in our document what information is to searched.=C2=A0

That=E2= =80=99s fine with me too.


(5) =C2=A77 (Backward Compatibili= ty) "Some implementations, which are compliant with an earlier version= of this specification..." <sigh>=C2=A0

I understand that there may be implementations = that are non-compliant with this specification out in the field. However, w= hy is this document making accommodations for them? Not only are these impl= ementations not compliant with this document, but are also non compliant wi= th rfc8408, which implies the use of a new sub-TLV per PST.=C2=A0

I didn't find a discussion o= n the mailing list related to this issue.=C2=A0
Specifying alternate behavior to accommodate non-compl= iant implementations is not the best way to define new functionality. If th= e support for those old implementations was an imperative then the new func= tionality should have been fully specified to seamlessly interoperate with = what is already deployed. The current result is two ways to do the same thi= ng...=C2=A0

While I wou= ld prefer for this "backwards compatibility" not to be built into= the specification, I am looking for discussion in the WG and a better just= ification that the current one (which can be reduced to "non-compliant= implementations exist, so we need to fit them in here somehow").=C2=A0

[Jon] Yes, this secti= on was painful to write, and was done after an on-list consultation with th= e working group. I can provide some references. The relevant thread starts = here.=C2=A0
https://www.ie= tf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05397.html=C2=A0

Ah..i= t was under the discussion for=C2=A0draft-ietf-pce-lsp-setup-type/rfc8404.= =C2=A0 Not that it matters now, but I got a little lost as to why these pro= visions were not put into rfc8404=E2=80=A6maybe because of the SR-specific = component...

We got firm feedback from one vendor that the old behaviour needed = to be accommodated.=C2=A0
<= a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05415.html">= https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pce/current/msg05415.html=C2=A0

There were good reasons = for us changing the spec at a late stage, but this unfortunately left us ne= eding to make a special case of the SR-CAPABILITY-TLV or else break a field= ed implementation. So we collectively held our noses and did it. Hopefully,= this plus the thread above gives you the background to the decision.=C2=A0

<sigh!> :-(

I wouldn=E2=80=99t call the feedba= ck firm=E2=80=A6and it makes me very sad to see the WG jumping through hoop= s to satisfy 1(!!) implementation, even if no one else replied on the list.= :-(

I realize it is too late to go back=E2=80=A6and that I would pro= bably end up in the rough if we did.=C2=A0 Once we clear up the remaining D= ISCUSS points (+ publish an update), I will be ABSTAINing.


I haven=E2=80=99t checked in detail, but I suspect that keeping =C2=A77 ca= uses the Management Considerations to be incomplete because they don=E2=80= =99t include the =E2=80=9Cbackwards compatible=E2=80=9D behavior.=C2=A0

=


(6) sub-TLV Space for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV=C2=A0

rfc8408 failed to set up a = sub-TLV registry for the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV. The bigger issue i= s that it also doesn't say that other PCE TLVs can be used as sub-TLVs = (nor does it prohibit that). The Type for the SR-PCE-CAPABILITY sub-TLV is = allocated from the PCEP TLV Type Indicators registry, making it a TLV. I al= so couldn't find any mention of sub-TLVs in rfc5440, or the potential i= ntent to have a single space from which both TLVs and sub-TLVs could come.<= span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0

The question is: = are all TLVs (defined in the PCEP TLV Type Indicators=C2=A0
registry) able to be used as sub-TLVs? Thi= s question is general, but also specific to the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY = TLV. At a minimum, it should be made clear which can be used with the PATH-= SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV -- because this is the first document to define a= new PST and sub-TLV, it seems appropriate to Update rfc8408 here...but rfc= 5440 may also need an Update.=C2=A0

[Jon] I don't think there is an intent that any TLV can be= used as a sub-TLV. This argues for making a new registry for the sub-TLVs = of the PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV (although we will have a vestigial co= de point allocation for SR-PCE-CAPABILITY as a top-level TLV because of sec= tion 7). I think therefore that this draft should create the registry and u= pdate RFC 8408.=C2=A0

The other option (to avoid the duplication)= is to make it explicit that the=C2=A0SR-PCE-CAPABILITY TLV can (only?) be = used as a sub-TLV of the=C2=A0PATH-SETUP-TYPE-CAPABILITY TLV=E2=80=A6. As m= entioned above, rfc8408 doesn=E2=80=99t prohibit this, and because the spac= e is so big it may not be an issue.


I=E2=80=99m ok with yo= ur other answers.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

--000000000000aa4bb505804beb56-- From nobody Mon Jan 28 08:13:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D012130EC0; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:13:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_DYNAMIC=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oilqHk1nSL9F; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:13:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 089E4130EB5; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:13:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. 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Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:13:13 -0500 From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" To: "pce@ietf.org" CC: "pce-chairs@ietf.org" , " (rtg-ads@ietf.org)" , "'Dhruv Dhody (dhruv.ietf@gmail.com)'" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" Thread-Topic: Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair Thread-Index: AdS3I+ReE5jvT5AxRwSQLhHjbQOgsQ== Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:13:12 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.16.234.244] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C89D0F2C9FMISOUT7MSGUSRDE_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-01-28_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=436 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901280122 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:13:27 -0000 --_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C89D0F2C9FMISOUT7MSGUSRDE_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:13:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Elwyn Davies To: Cc: draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext.all@ietf.org, pce@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.90.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154870638870.3059.2353803341317005003@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:13:08 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 20:13:09 -0000 Reviewer: Elwyn Davies Review result: Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-117 Reviewer: Elwyn Davies Review Date: 2019-01-28 IETF LC End Date: 2018-12-27 IESG Telechat date: 2019-02-07 Summary: Ready. There are a couple of trivial nits remaining. Otherwise, thanks very much for addressing my last call comments. Major issues: None. Minor issues: None. Nits/editorial comments: S3: The expansion of 3R needs to be at first occurrence. This is one paragraph earlier than the added expansion in v11. S3, next to last para: need to expand FEC. S4.1, para 5: s/to the allocation/used for the allocation/ From nobody Mon Jan 28 13:46:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EBE13115A; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VVVseaw0l1u8; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x434.google.com (mail-pf1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5F3E1311D6; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x434.google.com with SMTP id b7so8608893pfi.8; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0tnHEIRA2Hx+emdMAM1Xi9NVM4B0uRJ4VzcX8woDfQM=; b=WBbbLw+IVGm0s5AlwzWEbgsdqytiCTXHQ3VA3oEsICtOGm1ZfOEEUtOQjQdzgVQ0rc WCwl2/McqFyyVHeiWf+tqaqW4U+gF2D+zELZOB4DufUAs/dPMo6P1DiNMBLJoNU57qWz zRcI56Kj2O9oX7jeu7FqWrqLEviX4Nl8Eb2BxIPAaFOA+M3HbSRpWC2fVVAlhCE+pLii PfxsqS1wPxUukY/iOESulVnIY1mAJnnuNc19W/eoitRgxC4VmJ4Lyhcn920C9tjHFwOB WD4eIvF+lC3xg2H0ecYQFLPrfvsmaVVTfbqXumViLvvoVmEsWALJvZx0hKi7FQSZLpvj WLNw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0tnHEIRA2Hx+emdMAM1Xi9NVM4B0uRJ4VzcX8woDfQM=; b=IPMVvvHzZsqR5BRCHvsDJiL4sg36X7qwaKMCF5QC4C4H7/9qIb6Uohav2Dp0M0ShZO fjkPf7tLtSWFF9u3Y50Ws/Krk3Ihi3fKHP9Squ0EyTOgxMSSqKxOOVDUx2polTA9Pkix 8wuPVJgcHeHGnlEGJKhwwchfDEtP/7jAkOaOfIS4jMnmhZ/TJFc3Xr9CshSRTLTyzLVz M9K3kmxyXr6kVPbYslFI50PLWtwzL6qWTDNqX7QdjynqI8xAPYeAiB56L20qpDnWTXBT IqbXq+jVpf1PVMfuvZcjJQvjv9+myjHXE6kCaRVLpXMbb3mH4nMVxk1D9MLb5IiB9np1 hqeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcQRyF/T4uicneou5ttR6DNZg36Q2nQ4zmXdh7HJO7wPMzrrwJi 10iB1b7LYGCCiACs0W9BHG6L5FJ7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6Qht2kKXkq5pxfDmfpGY3r1c7FMlCXcpaBD2GlHZmDEPhEscLQNeMcmy1lyYZHxF2SWB4Qng== X-Received: by 2002:a63:5b1f:: with SMTP id p31mr21150272pgb.56.1548712011799; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (c-73-189-13-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.189.13.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a195sm66976705pfa.7.2019.01.28.13.46.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:51 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-AB2E2FD6-6729-4084-84F0-A4F56E5E27BB Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C101) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:50 -0800 Cc: "pce@ietf.org" , " (rtg-ads@ietf.org)" , "pce-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <467FF643-4002-46D1-8DAC-DC19536BCDC8@gmail.com> References: To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 21:46:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail-AB2E2FD6-6729-4084-84F0-A4F56E5E27BB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, Thanks for your great contribution! Dhruv - welcome! Regards, Jeff > On Jan 28, 2019, at 08:13, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A wrote: >=20 > Hi PCEers, > =20 > As announced at IETF103, Jon Hardwick has requested to step down as PCE Co= -Chair. We thank him for his many years of service and wish him all the best= ! > =20 > As Jon is very difficult to replace and to help Julien over these next sev= eral months, I=E2=80=99ve decided to replace Jon with two Co-Chairs: Dhruv D= hody and Adrian Farrel. > =20 > Dhruv is one of our top lead technical contributors in PCE and he is curre= ntly the PCE secretary. I am sure he will be fantastic in his new role as Co= -Chair. The difficulty is that he is a co-author on a high proportion of the= PCE drafts and that is not a good thing for a Chair as it will severely bur= den the other Co-Chair with managing those documents. Because of this diffic= ulty, I=E2=80=99ve asked Dhruv to re-allocate authorship on a majority of hi= s drafts as quickly as possible. Dhruv has agreed. > =20 > While Dhruv is learning the ropes of being a Chair and re-distributing his= drafts, I=E2=80=99ve asked Adrian to help. Adrian, of course, is well known= to all of us. No introduction needed=F0=9F=98=8A > =20 > It is expected Adrian will only be needed for approximately 4 months. > =20 > Welcome to both Dhruv and Adrian! > =20 > Thanks! > Deborah > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce --Apple-Mail-AB2E2FD6-6729-4084-84F0-A4F56E5E27BB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John,

Thanks for your gr= eat contribution!
Dhruv - welcome!

Regards,
Jeff

On Jan 2= 8, 2019, at 08:13, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A <db3546@att.com> wrote:

Hi PCEers,

 

As announced at IETF103, Jon Hardwick has requested t= o step down as PCE Co-Chair. We thank him for his many years of service and w= ish him all the best!

 

As Jon is very difficult to replace and to help Julie= n over these next several months, I=E2=80=99ve decided to replace Jon with t= wo Co-Chairs: Dhruv Dhody and Adrian Farrel.

 

Dhruv is one of our top lead technical contributors i= n PCE and he is currently the PCE secretary. I am sure he will be fantastic i= n his new role as Co-Chair. The difficulty is that he is a co-author on a hi= gh proportion of the PCE drafts and that is not a good thing for a Chair as it will severely burden the oth= er Co-Chair with managing those documents. Because of this difficulty, I=E2=80= =99ve asked Dhruv to re-allocate authorship on a majority of his drafts as q= uickly as possible. Dhruv has agreed.

 

While Dhruv is learning the ropes of being a Chair an= d re-distributing his drafts, I=E2=80=99ve asked Adrian to help. Adrian, of c= ourse, is well known to all of us. No introduction needed=F0=9F=98=8A

 

It is expected Adrian will only be needed for approxi= mately 4 months.

 

Welcome to both Dhruv and Adrian!

 

Thanks!

Deborah

 

________= _______________________________________
Pce mailing list
Pce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/pce
= --Apple-Mail-AB2E2FD6-6729-4084-84F0-A4F56E5E27BB-- From nobody Mon Jan 28 13:50:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B298131211 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:50:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.04 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.04 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=danielking-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wj7peAMQYj58 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com (mail-wm1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FEC612008A for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id y8so15555514wmi.4 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:50:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=danielking-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=3sJfB7OIIN9IUunhZPTDPTbgmMCDa9DCiSZlotxVi2Q=; b=haKCGsggBtaV5ccpGpyWi+fTUZgynvG46yCo3fXWm18MfAP3PkGBOG3L4LkvXidt8n YEpeghFBUYDm6EN7pARcUTjXPom8V0gHc1KyAhlpJ2ZNcff0UbK2dfByMj0gfG/g9n8s KQW/K4L1hiRRF6M4wbeUzO4M1jU9xMoa4edG9tAnAQ/xrCaYiZZAugXeu3z5OZK0xRmu zOj3rI/4d6mHePofMbFH4/f8bDbOUidNYcsc3u8w8TyiP8FUhaGzDVed3nDih5Si2yNS y6rzCp0t/bMiISVLU5tTR7HS4xT1xUU+nKMzmTXIk2NQa8aZH6m39E6JIJJFTNFBjsbc iW1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=3sJfB7OIIN9IUunhZPTDPTbgmMCDa9DCiSZlotxVi2Q=; b=YZz17dB0FGXbioNoMoCPVrfUlmOf53UwDAydDrW/ATfhoNsLugIU2i7YifAlCpv7da RjzXq6ilCCEKsdCXf1w5ZD5f/nTMUY3B/AEeJFQx9St0ntxPWEvgm/XiLLGeynYGfjzd hO2mBygCDnQfLk3IFLdY6WepyaAIAsTcRWxyyNEXDDFb4ThHzoFAkCpT2N7iqgnK4+dY K3di4kv+M3flJYuhpP0XqDYKz13Tcp82+INtiAfiAc94V3BLteaCLMpmXzByvZzX9OEu GEpm997tt0skqoyWxcEtA9SRJeGiB3pWPGVG4rzgrJeBITeMM81Kl7ddb4sGxHTbWfKx 91hQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukegese02Nxt8xDSfYZUmFGzykJH20ufk+iDm5YnvmUlmU0bzq2/ dzhd2XpK5/TNr+SPGRap0qE5KA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6lTMhlcaDAYqro1Zmg42YhUgcX8HHNY1iz002PlWP78tn0ntdxlPRAaVdLXM1pq8J0dhPsag== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:f605:: with SMTP id w5mr19447315wmc.116.1548712249677; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from INARA (host81-150-172-245.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [81.150.172.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 200sm1018491wmw.31.2019.01.28.13.50.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:50:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Daniel King" To: "'BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A'" , Cc: , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 21:50:48 -0000 Message-ID: <000001d4b753$888ede60$99ac9b20$@danielking.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D4B753.888EDE60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQDVg01eBkFq8u+YKd1lVh1wb5xGNafDnqhQ Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 21:50:54 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D4B753.888EDE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very sorry to see Jon step down, and thanks for all the hard work = Chairing Jon, although looking forward to more individual and WG = technical PCE contributions from you (again). :) =20 Congratulations Dhruv!=20 =20 (Welcome back Adrian.) :)=20 =20 BR, Dan.=20 =20 From: Pce On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A Sent: 28 January 2019 16:13 To: pce@ietf.org Cc: (rtg-ads@ietf.org) ; = pce-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Pce] Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair =20 Hi PCEers, =20 As announced at IETF103, Jon Hardwick has requested to step down as PCE = Co-Chair. We thank him for his many years of service and wish him all = the best! =20 As Jon is very difficult to replace and to help Julien over these next = several months, I=E2=80=99ve decided to replace Jon with two Co-Chairs: = Dhruv Dhody and Adrian Farrel.=20 =20 Dhruv is one of our top lead technical contributors in PCE and he is = currently the PCE secretary. I am sure he will be fantastic in his new = role as Co-Chair. The difficulty is that he is a co-author on a high = proportion of the PCE drafts and that is not a good thing for a Chair as = it will severely burden the other Co-Chair with managing those = documents. Because of this difficulty, I=E2=80=99ve asked Dhruv to = re-allocate authorship on a majority of his drafts as quickly as = possible. Dhruv has agreed. =20 While Dhruv is learning the ropes of being a Chair and re-distributing = his drafts, I=E2=80=99ve asked Adrian to help. Adrian, of course, is = well known to all of us. No introduction needed=F0=9F=98=8A =20 It is expected Adrian will only be needed for approximately 4 months. =20 Welcome to both Dhruv and Adrian! =20 Thanks! Deborah =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D4B753.888EDE60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Very sorry = to see Jon step down, and thanks for all the hard work Chairing Jon, = although looking forward to more individual and WG technical PCE = contributions from you (again). J

 

Congratulations Dhruv! =

 

(Welcome = back Adrian.) J

 

BR, Dan. =

 

From: Pce = <pce-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH = A
Sent: 28 January 2019 16:13
To: = pce@ietf.org
Cc: <rtg-ads@ietf.org> (rtg-ads@ietf.org) = <rtg-ads@ietf.org>; pce-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: [Pce] = Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair

 

Hi PCEers,

 

As announced at IETF103, Jon Hardwick has requested to step = down as PCE Co-Chair. We thank him for his many years of service and = wish him all the best!

 

As Jon is very difficult to replace and to help Julien over = these next several months, I=E2=80=99ve decided to replace Jon with two = Co-Chairs: Dhruv Dhody and Adrian Farrel.

 

Dhruv is one of our top lead = technical contributors in PCE and he is currently the PCE secretary. I = am sure he will be fantastic in his new role as Co-Chair. The difficulty = is that he is a co-author on a high proportion of the PCE drafts and = that is not a good thing for a Chair as it will severely burden the = other Co-Chair with managing those documents. Because of this = difficulty, I=E2=80=99ve asked Dhruv to re-allocate authorship on a = majority of his drafts as quickly as possible. Dhruv has = agreed.

 

While Dhruv is learning the ropes of being a Chair and = re-distributing his drafts, I=E2=80=99ve asked Adrian to help. Adrian, = of course, is well known to all of us. No introduction = needed😊

 

It is expected Adrian will only be needed for approximately = 4 months.

 

Welcome to both Dhruv and Adrian!

 

Thanks!

Deborah

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D4B753.888EDE60-- From nobody Mon Jan 28 18:36:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBE2130F18; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:36:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rFMmyar3Dc56; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10C1E1312E6; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0B1D4237A7F700963A2C; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:28:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.39) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:28:56 +0000 Received: from DGGEML530-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.25]) by DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::b177:a243:7a69:5ab8%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:28:53 +0800 From: Fatai Zhang To: "'BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A'" , "pce@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-ads@ietf.org" , "pce-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Pce] Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair Thread-Index: AdS3I+ReE5jvT5AxRwSQLhHjbQOgsf//2SkA//8x3BA= Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:28:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000001d4b753$888ede60$99ac9b20$@danielking.net> In-Reply-To: <000001d4b753$888ede60$99ac9b20$@danielking.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: 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nobody Mon Jan 28 19:18:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE38B130D7A; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 19:18:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QDvI-teAcc0x; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 19:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39EA4129B88; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 19:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3F89FE8FE931777D840A; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 03:18:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML421-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.38) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 03:18:12 +0000 Received: from DGGEML529-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.25]) by dggeml421-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 11:18:07 +0800 From: "Chengli (Cheng Li)" To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" , "pce@ietf.org" CC: " (rtg-ads@ietf.org)" , "pce-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Replacing Jon as PCE Co-Chair Thread-Index: AdS3I+ReE5jvT5AxRwSQLhHjbQOgsQAXDW6Q Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 03:18:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.185.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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14.03.0415.000; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:02:18 -0800 From: Leeyoung To: Elwyn Davies , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext.all@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11 Thread-Index: AQHUt0XpxKVXIs+KvEaBAu9ZdlFKNKXG/99w Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 01:02:18 +0000 Message-ID: <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E173D0C9021@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <154870638870.3059.2353803341317005003@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154870638870.3059.2353803341317005003@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.109.128] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-pce-wson-rwa-ext-11 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element 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From: Cyril Margaria To: Tianran Zhou , "ops-dir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions.all@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-12 Thread-Index: AQHUhgSxP03k/X4MOU+LZtSXTS0ic6XI1WSF Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:10:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154329077877.23840.3362230882574547737@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154329077877.23840.3362230882574547737@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY4PR0501MB3843; 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Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR0501MB3843 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-01-30_17:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1901300166 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-12 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:10:45 -0000 --_000_CY4PR0501MB369893A4E1009B550C1FD7B1B5900CY4PR0501MB3698_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks a lot for your review, please find answers inline, a revised ID will be posted shortly ________________________________ From: Tianran Zhou Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 19:52 To: ops-dir@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions.all@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org; ietf@i= etf.org Subject: Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-12 Reviewer: Tianran Zhou Review result: Has Issues I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's ongo= ing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects = of the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be includ= ed in AD reviews during the IESG review. Document editors and WG chairs shoul= d treat these comments just like any other last call comments. I did not see any special operational or network management related issue. = But I saw some other issues. Major: This document includes too many Terms and Acronyms without explanation nor expansion. Most of them are specific to GMPLS/transport network. I strongly suggest the authors can have a Terms section to explain them all. [MC] A Terminology section is added Minor: It seems the abstraction is too simple with just one sentence. Could you describe a littel more about the what and why? The new abstract will read: OLD: This memo provides extensions to the Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP) for the support of GMPLS control plane. NEW: The Path Computation Element (PCE) provides path computation functions for Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) networks. Additional requirements for GMPLS are identified in [RFC7025] . This memo provides extensions to the Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP) for the support of the GMPLS control plane to address those requirements. END Cheers, Tianran --_000_CY4PR0501MB369893A4E1009B550C1FD7B1B5900CY4PR0501MB3698_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks a lot for your review, 

please find answers inline, a revised ID will be posted shortly

From: Tianran Zhou <zhou= tianran@huawei.com>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 19:52
To: ops-dir@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions.all@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org;= ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extens= ions-12
 
Reviewer: Tianran Zhou
Review result: Has Issues

I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's ongo= ing
effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  Thes= e
comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects = of
the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be includ= ed
in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs = should
treat these comments just like any other last call comments.

I did not see any special operational or network management related issue. = But
I saw some other issues.

Major:
This document includes too many Terms and Acronyms without explanation nor<= br> expansion. Most of them are specific to GMPLS/transport network. I strongly=
suggest the authors can have a Terms section to explain them all.

[MC] A Terminology section is adde= d

Minor:
It seems the abstraction is too simple with just one sentence. Could you describe a littel more about the what and why?

The new abstract will read:=
OLD:
This memo provides extensions= to the Path Computation Element
communication Protocol (PCEP)= for the support of GMPLS control plane.

NEW:
 The Path Computation El= ement (PCE) provides path computation
 functions for Multiprot= ocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized
 MPLS (GMPLS) networks. =  Additional requirements for GMPLS are
 identified in [RFC7025]= .

This memo provides extensions= to the Path Computation Element
communication Protocol (PCEP)= for the support of the GMPLS control
plane to address those requir= ements.

END

Cheers,
Tianran

--_000_CY4PR0501MB369893A4E1009B550C1FD7B1B5900CY4PR0501MB3698_-- From nobody Wed Jan 30 15:24:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346D7130ED7; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 15:23:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.90.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <154889063815.10525.13349245062884005599@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 15:23:58 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-13.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:23:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : PCEP extensions for GMPLS Authors : Cyril Margaria Oscar Gonzalez de Dios Fatai Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-13.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2019-01-30 Abstract: The Path Computation Element (PCE) provides path computation functions for Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) networks. Additional requirements for GMPLS are identified in RFC7025. This memo provides extensions to the Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP) for the support of the GMPLS control plane to address those requirements. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-gmpls-pcep-extensions-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 30 16:49:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85547130EBF; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 16:49:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r4FWkCOljMzi; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 16:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with 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