From nobody Sun Nov 1 09:08:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079083A0C3F; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 09:07:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <160425047581.2339.16797273358704935515@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 09:07:55 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-08.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 17:07:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : PCEP Procedures and Protocol Extensions for Using PCE as a Central Controller (PCECC) of LSPs Authors : Zhenbin Li Shuping Peng Mahendra Singh Negi Quintin Zhao Chao Zhou Filename : draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-08.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2020-11-01 Abstract: The Path Computation Element (PCE) is a core component of Software- Defined Networking (SDN) systems. It can compute optimal paths for traffic across a network and can also update the paths to reflect changes in the network or traffic demands. PCE was developed to derive paths for MPLS Label Switched Paths (LSPs), which are supplied to the head end of the LSP using the Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP). But SDN has a broader applicability than signaled MPLS and GMPLS traffic-engineered (TE) networks, and the PCE may be used to determine paths in a range of use cases. PCEP has been proposed as a control protocol for use in these environments to allow the PCE to be fully enabled as a central controller. A PCE-based Central Controller (PCECC) can simplify the processing of a distributed control plane by blending it with elements of SDN and without necessarily completely replacing it. Thus, the LSP can be calculated/set up/initiated and the label forwarding entries can also be downloaded through a centralized PCE server to each network device along the path, while leveraging the existing PCE technologies as much as possible. This document specifies the procedures and PCEP extensions for using the PCE as the central controller. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 1 23:10:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D613A010D; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:10:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <160430105656.23757.11299475047686419171@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 23:10:56 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-sr-path-segment-02.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:10:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) Extension for Path Segment in Segment Routing (SR) Authors : Cheng Li Mach(Guoyi) Chen Weiqiang Cheng Rakesh Gandhi Quan Xiong Filename : draft-ietf-pce-sr-path-segment-02.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2020-11-01 Abstract: The Path Computation Element (PCE) provides path computation functions in support of traffic engineering in Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) networks. The Source Packet Routing in Networking (SPRING) architecture describes how Segment Routing (SR) can be used to steer packets through an IPv6 or MPLS network using the source routing paradigm. A Segment Routed Path can be derived from a variety of mechanisms, including an IGP Shortest Path Tree (SPT), explicit configuration, or a Path Computation Element (PCE). Path identification is needed for several use cases such as performance measurement in Segment Routing (SR) network. This document specifies extensions to the Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) to support requesting, replying, reporting and updating the Path Segment ID (Path SID) between PCEP speakers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-sr-path-segment/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-sr-path-segment-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-sr-path-segment-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-sr-path-segment-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 2 07:08:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3863A116B; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 07:07:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <160432967519.3576.33593597937565569@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:07:55 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-07.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 15:07:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : PCEP Extensions for Segment Routing leveraging the IPv6 data plane Authors : Cheng Li(Editor) Mahendra Singh Negi Mike Koldychev Prejeeth Kaladharan Yongqing Zhu Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-07.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2020-11-02 Abstract: The Source Packet Routing in Networking (SPRING) architecture describes how Segment Routing (SR) can be used to steer packets through an IPv6 or MPLS network using the source routing paradigm. SR enables any head-end node to select any path without relying on a hop-by-hop signaling technique (e.g., LDP or RSVP-TE). It depends only on "segments" that are advertised by Link- State IGPs. A Segment Routed Path can be derived from a variety of mechanisms, including an IGP Shortest Path Tree (SPT), explicit configuration, or a Path Computation Element (PCE). Since SR can be applied to both MPLS and IPv6 forwarding plane, a PCE should be able to compute SR-Path for both MPLS and IPv6 forwarding plane. This document describes the extensions required for SR support for IPv6 data plane in Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP). The PCEP extension and mechanism to support SR-MPLS is described in RFC 8664. This document extends it to support SRv6 (SR over IPv6). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 2 09:27:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F358F3A0D43; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:27:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ufuoyD80szX6; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAB4B3A0D3E; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 21EDFF40709; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:27:31 -0800 (PST) To: ssidor@cisco.com, edward.crabbe@gmail.com, inaminei@google.com, msiva@cisco.com, robert.varga@pantheon.tech X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: db3546@att.com, iesg@ietf.org, pce@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20201102172731.21EDFF40709@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 09:27:31 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] [Errata Verified] RFC8281 (6301) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 17:27:52 -0000 The following errata report has been verified for RFC8281, "Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) Extensions for PCE-Initiated LSP Setup in a Stateful PCE Model". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6301 -------------------------------------- Status: Verified Type: Technical Reported by: Samuel Sidor Date Reported: 2020-10-06 Verified by: Deborah Brungard (IESG) Section: 5.1 Original Text ------------- ::= (| ) ::= [] [] ::= Corrected Text -------------- ::= (| ) ::= [] [] ::= Notes ----- Update needed to solve ambiguity for any extra object included after SRP and LSP objects in reclaim delegation request, which is coming from: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8281#section-6 A PCE (either the original or one of its backups) sends a PCInitiate message that includes just the SRP and LSP objects and carries the PLSP-ID of the LSP it wants to take control of. -------------------------------------- RFC8281 (draft-ietf-pce-pce-initiated-lsp-11) -------------------------------------- Title : Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) Extensions for PCE-Initiated LSP Setup in a Stateful PCE Model Publication Date : December 2017 Author(s) : E. Crabbe, I. Minei, S. Sivabalan, R. Varga Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Path Computation Element Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Mon Nov 2 10:24:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2D03A0400; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 10:24:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: draft-ietf-pce-pcep-flowspec@ietf.org, julien.meuric@orange.com, pce@ietf.org, pce-chairs@ietf.org, Julien Meuric , The IESG , db3546@att.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <160434146056.24044.12245993127642075044@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:24:20 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Protocol Action: 'PCEP Extension for Flow Specification' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-pce-pcep-flowspec-12.txt) X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 18:24:21 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'PCEP Extension for Flow Specification' (draft-ietf-pce-pcep-flowspec-12.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Path Computation Element Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Martin Vigoureux and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-flowspec/ Technical Summary The Path Computation Element (PCE) is a functional component capable of selecting paths through a traffic engineering network. These paths may be supplied in response to requests for computation, or may be unsolicited instructions issued by the PCE to network elements. Both approaches use the PCE Communication Protocol (PCEP) to convey the details of the computed path. This document specifies a set of extensions to PCEP to support dissemination of Flow Specifications. This allows a PCE to indicate what traffic should be placed on each path. Working Group Summary No issues. A post-LC comment pointed out a new requirement to be addressed by this extension. The I-D was updated to cover that feature by adding a flag, there was consensus for it. Document Quality As mentioned in the implementation section: "It is believed that two vendors are considering prototype implementations, but these plans are too vague to make any further assertions." Have a significant number of vendors indicated their plan to implement the specification? At least 2. Are there any reviewers that merit special mention as having done a thorough review, e.g., one that resulted in important changes or a conclusion that the document had no substantive issues? Vishnu Pavan Beeram raised the comment that triggered the latest changes (-10). Personnel Who is the Document Shepherd for this document? Julien Meuric Who is the Responsible Area Director? Deborah Brungard From nobody Wed Nov 4 00:05:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F553A0D37 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 00:05:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z0GT5zAiWPDe for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 00:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 862FD3A0C15 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 00:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id 10so16648626pfp.5 for ; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 00:05:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vLaJUS1GsNTSB/YeD+5P6qzLgkyLafz8855XxUt+DxM=; b=L6LB9rl8Zv5+R2/+LC1Mndal/wA4hCJvQgAsPRJ9hOhw/56yU3RS/r+aSJtwr0NfZh JXcQ5JRJ70GALNXLg6jIBoeaKo4d/IJwESqo4TEAadPnltDgmOUZAnPVqeE1cN1ayxAl rRICenezOO4UnUmmlPUxvWrCq2uy2iW6CK+sfoOnbgw9822BBicbROEaHoHSp+R4Fn28 6OBRyeujD18LJW48zhKS92BrMCHYd1hcjKnduFERkQVyA5Rw5V+4c4VP6CtJupF2oQQW mR+a8Adi8uyVdovlb0uN1o/oH/Dsu8r/bBGrbW9J/5bs/81rLOn9XZG/502d/5oHazCJ 2k4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=vLaJUS1GsNTSB/YeD+5P6qzLgkyLafz8855XxUt+DxM=; b=s3hF4hVXNtywvuEk7WmTZ6wj5UOMNtAPOxDZPNgiq1GFo25yuiu5ay/1BOSrhU8BH+ HT0O6QPc0S32zw+lLgb30lTEHEavr4yj/CG00AVdY00E5lHud4hUMTDdU97qolOQVNz7 c/cCd56UcvIw6rrCDDjT6rTmuuma10A87giKjfEc71+iOpBj0PwEmyg0UX0gVwevhIBV I1EX5dltQw2tRrfZYS2/eMN0267UP55pTlPB/ruLg4FuY5EfduQELKtZc5o+0ScpLy2g SnRee1jcG9jNRWecYnNSUP6q7tjIxo8fdFPplJyvuDyrCxKKrOvN6MFF4gliZQaRYYEt b1aA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533S06L4H/TEGENUh3zGgYDSQO9doWYkQBMber/Y2VEcq1f1rQMm 0s2kGw+mwYAmZeTxtbQ0g8VId+kOlhWl83O86cXFE1hWzg8pGeCB X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzn1B3ucbie9tNmf8wqo7tFYUKT16U8jrW2CRUJyK4eOUiMTHHkVfNAmv/VtXiEsWRCLSOq3IfpEO/S/OgQQRA= X-Received: by 2002:a62:5e06:0:b029:164:a9ca:b07e with SMTP id s6-20020a625e060000b0290164a9cab07emr28718801pfb.36.1604477110414; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 00:05:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 13:34:34 +0530 Message-ID: To: pce@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000037887505b34370f1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 08:05:13 -0000 --00000000000037887505b34370f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi WG, Just a reminder, the WG Adoption poll ends on Monday 9th Nov, please respond to the call with your support (or not), comments, etc. Please be more vocal on the list [1]. Thanks! Dhruv & Julien [1] https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-pce-1-introduction-01 > Please be Vocal > > o During WG Adoption and WG LC calls, the response is less. > > o Please be vocal on the list to help us gauge the consensus better. > > o The working group mailing lists are looked at by the IESG, IAB, and others (internal and external to IETF) to determine interest/participation level in our standards process. > > o Please review ideas from your peers, these are community outputs of the working group as a whole. > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 7:10 PM Dhruv Dhody wrote: > Hi WG, > > This email begins the WG adoption poll for > draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02 > > Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons > - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are > you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to > the list. > > This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday). > > Thanks! > Dhruv & Julien > --00000000000037887505b34370f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi WG,

Just a reminder, the WG Adoption poll ends on Mon= day 9th Nov, please respond to the call=C2=A0with your support (or n= ot), comments, etc.=C2=A0=C2=A0
Please be more vocal on the lis= t=C2=A0[1].=C2=A0

Thanks!
Dhruv & Julie= n

[1]=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/proceedin= gs/108/slides/slides-108-pce-1-introduction-01
> Please be Vocal=
&g= t;
> o During WG Adoption and WG LC calls, the response is less.
>
> o Please be vocal on the list to help us gauge the consensus= better.
>
> o The working group mailing lists are looked at = by the IESG, IAB, and others (internal and external to IETF) to determine i= nterest/participation level in our standards process.
>
> o P= lease review ideas from your peers, these are community outputs of the work= ing group as a whole.
>

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 7:10= PM Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com<= /a>> wrote:
H= i WG,

This email begins the WG adoption poll for
draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02.

https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02<= br>
Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons
- Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are
you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to
the list.

This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday).

Thanks!
Dhruv & Julien
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Thread-Index: AXdGK1Jap4lB0iStKO98JDOs3tGKJ77Dh5GAgBXOdZ0= X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 18:14:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9E9DA2A9-AED9-44D5-8E30-4E0E38EF36FD@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <9E9DA2A9-AED9-44D5-8E30-4E0E38EF36FD@nokia.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SCL: -1 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-MS-Exchange-Organization-RecordReviewCfmType: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. 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Wed, 04 Nov 2020 10:21:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9E9DA2A9-AED9-44D5-8E30-4E0E38EF36FD@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 23:50:57 +0530 Message-ID: To: Tarek Saad Cc: "Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "pce@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 18:21:36 -0000 Hi Tarek, There is a proposal [1] to extend the support for the P (Processing-Rule) and I (Ignore) flag in the common object header (of PCEP objects, originally from RFC 5440) to stateful PCEP messages. Do check it out and let the WG know if that covers what you have in mind. Thanks! Dhruv [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhody-pce-stateful-pce-optional/ On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:44 PM Tarek Saad wrote: > > I believe the issue the draft is tackling is useful and I support adoptio= n. I also believe the idea of "enforcing" a constraint can be generalized (= e.g. to other constraints). Ideally, we can consider an approach that can b= e extended to other constraints in future too. > > Regards, > Tarek > > =EF=BB=BFOn 10/21/20, 5:14 PM, "Pce on behalf of Stone, Andrew (Nokia - C= A/Ottawa)" wrote= : > > Hello, > > As co-author, I support the adoption. Document describes various use = case needs, has implementations, and has been updated based on existing fee= dback. Would be good to have adopted to move to early IANA codepoint alloca= tions to allow implementation to progress further, as well as further WG re= finement. > > Thank you > Andrew > > =EF=BB=BFOn 2020-10-21, 9:41 AM, "Pce on behalf of Dhruv Dhody" wrote: > > Hi WG, > > This email begins the WG adoption poll for > draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-prote= ction-enforcement-02 > > Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your rea= sons > - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption?= Are > you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be post= ed to > the list. > > This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday). > > Thanks! > Dhruv & Julien > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From nobody Wed Nov 4 22:59:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA73D3A091C for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 22:59:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DC_PNG_UNO_LARGO=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WYFL_-GSuVI3 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 22:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 525DC3A08FA for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 22:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id g7so384925pfc.2 for ; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:59:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7t6WV4I1HHKRIZu0SahqKjkA1/dJG0jl0UP7g/flcks=; b=CcgTUcgnuUuihpiaAvgNPsAo+LJDSchT1KpermgV0THcVvLGRejoid/wp9rSgIwmUB VmIoC0cvk9qPf9xhQIO0+5whcFU1YOGM/nsLF65ljxgYHlugXufSUw5cSRnNi2J+w5rA rtPkTMLCdDHJkbuULK/CFHOPdV9MU8h+vJhtu14EMnQ/mAqlGHodZYGBZu973R+w7OUw nKPJBSaZKSQTuoE8WWtYWBX2bDfCd/E24LVpCjay0Ib7Sd1TmsvFchhjeCFJQqXGJVi7 3m+kAI6ypwiaL5E+Ldy+ACIReMpRcl1dvnDuByiEd2qYn/NHa3EJfaZyjcJ18FUPf0rZ mLLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7t6WV4I1HHKRIZu0SahqKjkA1/dJG0jl0UP7g/flcks=; b=qI+sx9limkLMuQ/6SMd5l1h2Mi+6RoT9ICPidlhj8UN2lpdoJRWJoRUDy7HiFa/sRp 1qu4axHmwNIVQEUcjzlq59xSfVPPRQD2OMEqBh8+wiHPm9ziQPSAMGBlsFXAEVjt1E97 IytzRcM7rPmwRRzc3sPyrXDg9QzJtxWp8C7jUh3f8Spnv34x/iyHo+yNtGvqK5GRuDQy U5VvL8WShh4o6DaHVgAA8rLnPgbI0K0vBHWIXaT4Hyfl/xR8vXkR5hDKcDgi6BqPdncK u4d3qKWxCI7u+K8rLnrt3XaBEurDgBn7dpH0lRpdYhgnZDfoC821n/ylnrWR3/Zb/35M nRWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ocYOZpS+3tFiBu6oESvXDgZpOCpoqrMrGUAIe3dKCtQ+aOJnj D6hG0tL52ov4URe+tZKnR5GNKhVLmowpimGCjrPyawUspWbR/g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzlaWsmN1V+VBUjaOw7PnNSLUdEWQHFFZIsSjrClfHBGMhLivJ1xJR9wHOeP0lsYjmsuoL79MVYSCrPRsbKAHA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:e8e:: with SMTP id fv14mr1058126pjb.94.1604559573345; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:59:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 12:28:57 +0530 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org Cc: pce@ietf.org, pce-chairs Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000641c0505b356a3d6" Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 06:59:37 -0000 --000000000000641c0505b356a3d6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000641c0305b356a3d4" --000000000000641c0305b356a3d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Authors, In https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01#section-4.2 , you state - The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address. This > applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths. > The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their own > Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by > different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associations, > which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represented > by an Association. > > The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is > allocated. In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST > be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time > of policy creation. In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Association > ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the PCE > is asking the PCC to choose an ID value. The PCE MUST NOT send the > Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages. But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section-6.1.3 gave quite a bit of leeway while setting the association source. Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are created via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (color, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the association source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about the association and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRpt message which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could use the same association! This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the association source in RFC 8697. Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the issue of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean than the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them, otherwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence. Thanks! Dhruv & Julien PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)! On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. > > Title : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Policy > Candidate Paths > Authors : Mike Koldychev > Siva Sivabalan > Colby Barth > Shuping Peng > Hooman Bidgoli > Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2020-10-27 > > Abstract: > This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing > (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths. An SR policy is > identified by tuple. An SR policy can > contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is > identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID. This document proposes extension > to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR > policy. The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to > both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > --000000000000641c0305b356a3d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<= font face=3D"trebuchet ms, sans-serif" style=3D"" color=3D"#073763">Hi Authors,

In https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet= f-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01#section-4.2,=C2=A0=C2=A0you state -=C2=A0

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0The Associat= ion Source MUST be set to the PCC's address.=C2=A0 This
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their = own
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiat= ed by
=C2=A0 =C2=A0different PCEs would by definition be in different PC= EP Associations,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which contradicts our requirement that the= SR Policy is represented
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by an Association.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Association ID MUST be chose= n by the PCC when the SR policy is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allocated.=C2=A0 In PCRp= t messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be set to = the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= of policy creation.=C2=A0 In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Association<= br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates tha= t the PCE
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is asking the PCC to choose an ID value.=C2=A0 Th= e PCE MUST NOT send the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Extended Association ID TLV in the = PCInit messages.

But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section-6.1.3 gave qu= ite a bit of leeway while setting the association source.

Consider 2= PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are created via t= wo different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (color, end-p= oint, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the association source as= Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about the associa= tion and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRpt message which= is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could use the sam= e association!

This was the very reason to include the flexibility i= n setting the association source in RFC 8697.

Julien and I discussed= this and we feel you are trying to solve the issue of sharing an associati= on ID between several PCEs by using a new mean than the one in RFC 8697. If= you have other reasons then please state them, otherwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence.

Tha= nks!
Dhruv & Julien

PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)!
=

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Policy Candidate Paths
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Mike= Koldychev
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Siva Sivabalan
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Colby Barth
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shuping Peng
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hooman Bidgoli
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 20
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2020-10-27

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Rout= ing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths.=C2=A0 An S= R policy is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identified by <headend, color, end-point> tuple.=C2=A0 A= n SR policy can
=C2=A0 =C2=A0contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path = is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID.=C2=A0 This document propose= s extension
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a give= n SR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0policy.=C2=A0 The mechanism proposed in this document is appli= cable to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01
https://datatracker= .ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/= rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


_______________________________________________
Pce mailing list
Pce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
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X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 11:09:49 -0000 Hi All, I support the adoption of this draft.=20 There have been recent discussions in the Spring WG on the desire to indica= te the nature of protection for SRTE paths and this draft proposes a useful= mechanism for signalling of the same. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Pce On Behalf Of Dhruv Dhody Sent: 21 October 2020 19:11 To: pce@ietf.org Subject: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforc= ement-02. Hi WG, This email begins the WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection= -enforcement-02. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enfo= rcement-02 Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are you w= illing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to the list. This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday). Thanks! Dhruv & Julien _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From nobody Thu Nov 5 06:21:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A913A121D; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 06:21:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=ljeowQ7M; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=g7cGbwSx Received: from mail.ietf.org 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multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b4d91905b35df5b4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 15:43:41 -0000 --000000000000b4d91905b35df5b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike, On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > Hi Dhruv, > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > 1. all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND > 2. they agree without talking to each other. > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it seems t= hat > condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PCUpd > messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please corre= ct > me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say th= at > =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source=3DX= =E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use > the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SOURCE? That would satisfy both condition= s, > but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you intended that? > > > No, I did not! > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise there > could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE > for the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to crea= te > the same policy at the same time. > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go by the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 of talking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy parameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one SR-Policy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and generate an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association and can use it subsequently! > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above two > requirements. > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association. Thanks! Dhruv > Thanks, > > Mike. > > > > *From:* Dhruv Dhody > *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM > *To:* draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > *Cc:* pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > *Subject:* Association Source in > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > Hi Authors, > > In > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01#s= ection-4.2 > , you state - > > The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address. This > applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths. > The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their own > Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by > different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associations, > which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represented > by an Association. > > > > > The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is > allocated. In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST > be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time > of policy creation. In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Association > ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the PCE > is asking the PCC to choose an ID value. The PCE MUST NOT send the > Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages. > > > But the base RFC 8697 > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section-6.1.3 gave quite a > bit of leeway while setting the association source. > > Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are > created via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifier= s > (color, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the > association source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will > learn about the association and the corresponding SR policy parameters vi= a > the PCRpt message which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates > CP2, it could use the same association! > > This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the > association source in RFC 8697. > > Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the issue > of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean tha= n > the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them, > otherwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence. > > Thanks! > Dhruv & Julien > > PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)! > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. > > Title : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Polic= y > Candidate Paths > Authors : Mike Koldychev > Siva Sivabalan > Colby Barth > Shuping Peng > Hooman Bidgoli > Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2020-10-27 > > Abstract: > This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing > (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths. An SR policy is > identified by tuple. An SR policy can > contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is > identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID. This document proposes extension > to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR > policy. The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to > both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp= / > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-poli= cy-cp-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy= -cp-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > > --000000000000b4d91905b35df5b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike,=C2=A0

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 = at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Dhruv,

=C2=A0

Thanks for bringing this up.

=C2=A0

By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee= that:

  1. all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on th= e same source, AND
  2. they agr= ee without talking to each other.

=C2=A0

In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NM= S_ADDRESS, it seems that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exch= ange of PCRupt/PCUpd messages between the 3 entities, which violates condit= ion 2. Please correct me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say that =E2=80=9CPolicy Endp= oint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source=3DX=E2=80=9D, are you sug= gesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SOURCE? That would satisfy b= oth conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you intended that?

=C2=A0


<= /div>
No, I did not!

=C2=A0

I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, becau= se otherwise there could be race conditions where the 3 parties have differ= ent ASSOC_SOURCE for the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 part= ies try to create the same policy at the same time.

=C2=A0


<= /div>
The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature= , and we need to go by the association parameters we receive from the PCEP = peer. Condition 2 of talking to each other is the very nature=C2=A0of a dyn= amic association!=C2=A0

If the race condition = is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy parameters (color, endpoint= , source). And make sure there is only one=C2=A0SR-Policy-association-group= with a given set of=C2=A0SR-Policy parameters (and generate an error other= wise). The other PCE would learn about the association and can use=C2=A0it = subsequently!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should = respect the above two requirements.

=C2=A0


<= /div>
I feel the requirement=C2=A02 is not compatible with a dyn= amic=C2=A0association.

Thanks!=C2= =A0
Dhruv

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Mike.

=C2=A0

From: Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM
To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org
Cc: pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs <pce-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy= -cp-01

=C2=A0

Hi Authors,

In https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01#sec= tion-4.2,=C2=A0=C2=A0you state -=C2=A0=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Association Source MUST= be set to the PCC's address.=C2=A0 This
=C2=A0 =C2=A0applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate pat= hs.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set the= ir own
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by =C2=A0 =C2=A0different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associ= ations,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is repres= ented
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by an Association.

=C2=A0


=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR polic= y is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allocated.=C2=A0 In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Associati= on ID MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at th= e time
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of policy creation.=C2=A0 In PCInit messages from the PCE, the= Association
=C2=A0 =C2=A0ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that t= he PCE
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is asking the PCC to choose an ID value.=C2=A0 The PCE MUST NO= T send the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages.<= /u>


But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section-6.1.3 gave quite a = bit of leeway while setting the association source.

Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are cre= ated via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (co= lor, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the association= source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about the association and the corresponding = SR policy parameters via the PCRpt message which is sent to both PCEs. So w= hen the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could use the same association!

This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the associat= ion source in RFC 8697.

Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the issue o= f sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean than t= he one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please stat= e them, otherwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence.

Thanks!
Dhruv & Julien

PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)!<= /u>

=C2=A0

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM <internet-drafts@ietf.org&= gt; wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Policy Candidate Paths
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Mike= Koldychev
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Siva Sivabalan
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Colby Barth
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shuping Peng
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hooman Bidgoli
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 20
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2020-10-27

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Rout= ing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths.=C2=A0 An S= R policy is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identified by <headend, color, end-point> tuple.=C2=A0 A= n SR policy can
=C2=A0 =C2=A0contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path = is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID.=C2=A0 This document propose= s extension
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a give= n SR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0policy.=C2=A0 The mechanism proposed in this document is appli= cable to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-p= ce-segment-routing-policy-cp/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segme= nt-routing-policy-cp-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/= draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraf= t-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp= .ietf.org/internet-drafts/


_______________________________________________
Pce mailing list
Pce@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce

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15.20.3499.032; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:10:46 +0000 From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: Dhruv Dhody , "pce@ietf.org" CC: pce-chairs Thread-Topic: [Pce] PCE WG Agenda for IETF 109 Thread-Index: AQHWs4u4KM+qXpm610W9oC/+tvw226m5tJ9Q Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:10:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dhruvdhody.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dhruvdhody.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [174.112.72.100] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2d0fd854-4e1d-4a82-742a-08d881a55ace x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB3980: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2d0fd854-4e1d-4a82-742a-08d881a55ace X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2020 16:10:46.5132 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: +Vqef/i4tkPQa88eNTTPTBueuclUiucwhaj3pF8xAiHKgQqShfpEOXvdiv67voOJ1+//tjMykJxKWaDELsKx8k9TvDN92q96TVOE0XlToxU= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB3980 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] PCE WG Agenda for IETF 109 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 16:10:52 -0000 Hi Chairs/Dhruv Any chance we can allocate 10 min for draft-hsd-pce-sr-p2mp-policy-02 We would like to ask for adaptation of this draft in this IETF and hence a = quick presentation is appropriate.=20 I do apologies as somehow I missed the agenda meeting email Regards Hooman -----Original Message----- From: Pce On Behalf Of Dhruv Dhody Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:52 AM To: pce@ietf.org Cc: pce-chairs Subject: [Pce] PCE WG Agenda for IETF 109 Hi WG, The agenda for the PCE WG session during IETF 108 is posted - https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-109-pce/ Please familiarize yourself with the meetecho tool - https://www.ietf.org/h= ow/meetings/109/session-participant-guide/ Presenters, please send your slides to pce-chairs@ietf.org by Sunday 15th N= ov 12:00 UTC, earlier is much better! Thanks! Dhruv, Julien & Hari. _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From nobody Thu Nov 5 08:16:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A393A14AE for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:16:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jkjQnLO78dGZ for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:16:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x632.google.com (mail-pl1-x632.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::632]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE0CD3A144A for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:16:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x632.google.com with SMTP id p4so1015970plr.1 for ; Thu, 05 Nov 2020 08:16:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IM8wV52LaiX9IhJDvIv7KUpLcM6l6daSUETx9rJhgKc=; b=KhQFvK5tsKB50xsA5TDjqw0cZhtj4wtDEApQ9Kr4ksWdisueEaDO1qsjSageZKZWVG YpSz2xcBuOi2g70rTroeQv4Enfqopf9AA+AF5QPOxgeTu+YGJRo6pN/A6GBUoB4nyWZZ yGP5GNC7dItuPbtiVPmwPdT2kUbEj3LEq3f/WvX6qbP0DJgH5LHRK4UqJZr1/f7VoYld qmYOvTi/utdp+AmkI3UgrWn4Aizhl8lNfJ+9U06Bq282Xq+0Yc90qHgq46aQUEmZ6Yqo ueOTKccCf5rdAh11ln6ka/SAxFVTbPxhN6veSo7FbPfMqW3RpChyqcRj3mSxwRhBM2/q tT4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IM8wV52LaiX9IhJDvIv7KUpLcM6l6daSUETx9rJhgKc=; b=rsZ7TY4nVK51wOCaSkPKgnMdPPIwToY7wz1l8NmP//ku+Ql0mteYAh89Jsrzu0v93N lZM3Jil42O8el+mq16/ofMn3P9W6Pa8JUf2pwL66Sdcq9P5pNtA9HKNFgJxjEp0wrUpJ vjC8LgWLh5XfFCHlgLx3X8rhLGRWzJv2QiAaQuKWdkgwiQyAAN5OwPZB9lZ8YBetitaE t6C1c4xWUBdbyENfAguI/+knR+QWa0DnmIkGpfCeZ+WENjqlmodCNrMEgsLxhXTK4I5s YmnC0DLCghQ/brlhUwa++FhM0waMDfqszG6gyNHVic/Np8FOnU1Iym7BP+dsHdfwaPEt UpZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532DkrEVsJUYs6YiJs0hEpL3OUuXGrO2/WXHl2DkhKRzpOdyfqfV 7Q3duRbmKn1Z+ZDd5rK0P83gsxZCNXzQm/Ra0+93Jg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJykJAff0mHY2ArycVS91+EoKkYEYqKx8LrBkDcQ8o9G9UJC0BNmQW5LbRUzJsp2prfDSdnH+hDYws2w1BmuTPk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:378b:: with SMTP id mz11mr3334597pjb.50.1604593007335; Thu, 05 Nov 2020 08:16:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 21:46:10 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" Cc: "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" , pce-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 16:16:51 -0000 Hi Mike, On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message with Ass= ociation Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean that the = PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source and t= o =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with the Assoc= iation ID. PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Associatio= n ID and reports it back. > > The comment was applicable for association-id as well as association-source! The use of 0 as association ID is being introduced by your draft and not part of the base RFC 8697 and that triggered the original email. Julien and I were uncomfortable with that and wanted to understand what is new here for SR policy association that requires a new procedure and cant be handled by RFC 8697. Thanks, Dhruv > > Thanks, > > Mike. > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org; pce-= chairs > Subject: Re: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-= cp-01 > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND > they agree without talking to each other. > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it seems t= hat condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PCUpd = messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please correct= me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say tha= t =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source=3DX= =E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SOURCE= ? That would satisfy both conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you inten= ded that? > > > > > > No, I did not! > > > > > > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise there co= uld be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE for = the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to create the= same policy at the same time. > > > > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go by th= e association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 of talk= ing to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! > > > > If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy par= ameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one SR-Polic= y-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and generate = an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association and ca= n use it subsequently! > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above two= requirements. > > > > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association. > > > > Thanks! > > Dhruv > > > > > > Thanks, > > Mike. > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM > To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > Cc: pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > Subject: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-0= 1 > > > > Hi Authors, > > In https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-0= 1#section-4.2, you state - > > The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address. This > applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths. > The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their own > Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by > different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associations, > which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represented > by an Association. > > > > > The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is > allocated. In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST > be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time > of policy creation. In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Association > ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the PCE > is asking the PCC to choose an ID value. The PCE MUST NOT send the > Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages. > > > But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section= -6.1.3 gave quite a bit of leeway while setting the association source. > > Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are creat= ed via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (colo= r, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the association s= ource as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about the= association and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRpt messa= ge which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could use= the same association! > > This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the associ= ation source in RFC 8697. > > Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the issue= of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean than= the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them, oth= erwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence. > > Thanks! > Dhruv & Julien > > PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)! > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. > > Title : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Polic= y Candidate Paths > Authors : Mike Koldychev > Siva Sivabalan > Colby Barth > Shuping Peng > Hooman Bidgoli > Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2020-10-27 > > Abstract: > This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing > (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths. An SR policy is > identified by tuple. An SR policy can > contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is > identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID. This document proposes extension > to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR > policy. The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to > both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp= / > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-poli= cy-cp-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy= -cp-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From nobody Thu Nov 5 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X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzLgd0mfawTLQopQTsLd23eV0OY9GF+OWr7y5Hi2n/sYnHqTMLDe1B0+zUlWDuUFw3to7Sl5W0QPWYP/vsYrLw= X-Received: by 2002:a25:67c3:: with SMTP id b186mr3635820ybc.150.1604594131121; Thu, 05 Nov 2020 08:35:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Cyril Margaria Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:35:20 +0000 Message-ID: To: Dhruv Dhody Cc: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" , "pce@ietf.org" , pce-chairs , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000031bb8305b35eaf8d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 16:35:35 -0000 --00000000000031bb8305b35eaf8d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a related question: how do you define the "PCC address", PCEP session address , one router id? For the association source race condition, the race condition will result in a "Conflicting SRPAG TLV" from a PCInitiate/PCUpd, the PCE can use the correct SRPAG. On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 16:16, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > Hi Mike, > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message with > Association Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean that > the PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source > and to =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with th= e Association ID. > PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Association ID and > reports it back. > > > > > > The comment was applicable for association-id as well as > association-source! The use of 0 as association ID is being introduced > by your draft and not part of the base RFC 8697 and that triggered the > original email. Julien and I were uncomfortable with that and wanted > to understand what is new here for SR policy association that requires > a new procedure and cant be handled by RFC 8697. > > Thanks, > Dhruv > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org; > pce-chairs > > Subject: Re: Association Source in > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) < > mkoldych@cisco.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > > > all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND > > they agree without talking to each other. > > > > > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it seems > that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PCU= pd > messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please corre= ct > me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say th= at > =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source=3DX= =E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use > the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SOURCE? That would satisfy both condition= s, > but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you intended that? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I did not! > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise there > could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE > for the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to crea= te > the same policy at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go by > the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 of > talking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! > > > > > > > > If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy > parameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one > SR-Policy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and > generate an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the > association and can use it subsequently! > > > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above t= wo > requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM > > To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > > Cc: pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > Subject: Association Source in > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > Hi Authors, > > > > In > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01#s= ection-4.2, > you state - > > > > The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address. This > > applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths. > > The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their own > > Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by > > different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associations= , > > which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represented > > by an Association. > > > > > > > > > > The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is > > allocated. In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST > > be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time > > of policy creation. In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Associatio= n > > ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the PCE > > is asking the PCC to choose an ID value. The PCE MUST NOT send the > > Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages. > > > > > > But the base RFC 8697 > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section-6.1.3 gave quite a > bit of leeway while setting the association source. > > > > Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are > created via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifier= s > (color, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the > association source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will > learn about the association and the corresponding SR policy parameters vi= a > the PCRpt message which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates > CP2, it could use the same association! > > > > This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the > association source in RFC 8697. > > > > Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the > issue of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new me= an > than the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state the= m, > otherwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence. > > > > Thanks! > > Dhruv & Julien > > > > PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)! > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IET= F. > > > > Title : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing > Policy Candidate Paths > > Authors : Mike Koldychev > > Siva Sivabalan > > Colby Barth > > Shuping Peng > > Hooman Bidgoli > > Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.t= xt > > Pages : 20 > > Date : 2020-10-27 > > > > Abstract: > > This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing > > (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths. An SR policy is > > identified by tuple. An SR policy can > > contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is > > identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID. This document proposes extension > > to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR > > policy. The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to > > both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR. > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp= / > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-poli= cy-cp-01 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy= -cp-01 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pce mailing list > > Pce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > --00000000000031bb8305b35eaf8d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a related question: how do you = define=C2=A0the "PCC address", PCEP session address , one router = id?

For the association source race condition, the= race condition will result in a "Conflicting SRPAG TLV" from a PCInitiate/PCUpd, the P= CE can use the correct SRPAG.=C2=A0




On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 16:16, Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)
<mkoldych@cisco.= com> wrote:
>
> Hi Dhruv,
>
>
>
> Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message with = Association Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean that t= he PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source an= d to =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with the As= sociation ID. PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Associa= tion ID and reports it back.
>
>

The comment was applicable for association-id as well as
association-source! The use of 0 as association ID is being introduced
by your draft and not part of the base RFC 8697 and that triggered the
original email. Julien and I were uncomfortable with that and wanted
to understand what is new here for SR policy association that requires
a new procedure and cant be handled by RFC 8697.

Thanks,
Dhruv

>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
> From: Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM
> To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych@cisco.com>
> Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org;= pce@ietf.org; pce-ch= airs <pce-chair= s@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-poli= cy-cp-01
>
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych@cisco.com>= wrote:
>
> Hi Dhruv,
>
>
>
> Thanks for bringing this up.
>
>
>
> By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that:
>
> all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND
> they agree without talking to each other.
>
>
>
> In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it seem= s that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PCU= pd messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please corr= ect me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say = that =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source= =3DX=E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SO= URCE? That would satisfy both conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you i= ntended that?
>
>
>
>
>
> No, I did not!
>
>
>
>
>
> I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise there= could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE f= or the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to create = the same policy at the same time.
>
>
>
>
>
> The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we nee= d to go by the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condit= ion 2 of talking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association!=
>
>
>
> If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy = parameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one SR-Po= licy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and genera= te an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association and= can use it subsequently!
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above = two requirements.
>
>
>
>
>
> I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association.=
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dhruv
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
> From: Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM
> To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org<= br> > Cc: pce@ietf.org= ; pce-chairs <p= ce-chairs@ietf.org>
> Subject: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-c= p-01
>
>
>
> Hi Authors,
>
> In https://t= ools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01#section-4.2<= /a>,=C2=A0 you state -
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's addre= ss.=C2=A0 This
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidat= e paths.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could se= t their own
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated= by
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP A= ssociations,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is r= epresented
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 by an Association.
>
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR = policy is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 allocated.=C2=A0 In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Asso= ciation ID MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC = at the time
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of policy creation.=C2=A0 In PCInit messages from the PCE= , the Association
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates t= hat the PCE
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is asking the PCC to choose an ID value.=C2=A0 The PCE MU= ST NOT send the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages.
>
>
> But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-= editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#section-6.1.3 gave quite a bit of leeway wh= ile setting the association source.
>
> Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths ar= e created via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifier= s (color, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the associ= ation source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn ab= out the association and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRp= t message which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it co= uld use the same association!
>
> This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the ass= ociation source in RFC 8697.
>
> Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the is= sue of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean t= han the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them, = otherwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence.
>
> Thanks!
> Dhruv & Julien
>
> PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir= ectories.
> This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IE= TF.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Policy Candidate Path= s
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Mike Koldychev
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Siva Sivabalan
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Colby Barth
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Shuping Peng
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hooman Bidgoli
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.txt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: 20
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 : 2020-10-27
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment= Routing
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths.=C2=A0= An SR policy is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 identified by <headend, color, end-point> tuple.=C2= =A0 An SR policy can
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate = path is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID.=C2=A0 This document pr= oposes extension
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a= given SR
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 policy.=C2=A0 The mechanism proposed in this document is = applicable to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/h= tml/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01
> https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf= .org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pce mailing list
> Pce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce

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--00000000000031bb8305b35eaf8d-- From nobody Thu Nov 5 08:35:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14383A1835 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:35:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OHwDqlPoR0d4 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18FF23A1810 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id i7so1738334pgh.6 for ; Thu, 05 Nov 2020 08:35:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wRMcewrSpg2T+g2w9p8ByM+IY+nO5ruuOoq489HgUT0=; b=bmCyc3JU/SPR39wFdvZmuLXshBs2elSjmGHUMLDQZXpkPwbou89VbPjpEfpEh8dLnE WaByelCI4B/CXcNt8mFRFlru3ojNpiF8whQ7EluYYPdnr3JZ/ik+w/35tr62RncTqhH+ h9Yt72WXOO6GW2hg5A44uisNtRC/M0SsO5JAeMVEdQKzNCgKW1fVwe/zR7sZj2UhHj5u jOgXL2lsbriukDIu9t6cz/yxF0CYsClKHPAlTEKGOfO3wg4IEw0VLgibJMTVnG884+GJ hdcT6073+GyS+6u4BLbWtMFeKpNuXRqYZWz+vuX9FBvAlaB9kDehih9xLu9CkMmRsKCy FKqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wRMcewrSpg2T+g2w9p8ByM+IY+nO5ruuOoq489HgUT0=; b=spDtlxl9NV7MKjtWb3ROf60rZTyMikYbOdyKKUiMvJUUQzDRK+MYSlpWIV+IIWRU67 q2UJHXnEqjRvpI11IWMAXid6SoKcuNJh4a0D2SOzIqlTZuhWzs07QBMJXdyoGF/lzsZW FXK5vfXmFq9I90aE5cd9I9+h27NCDGCTxiI2YsX2vcx2yuoc61emrvEWB9X7tVU6Wpsx PmCQ8ElLKCx7wRitNHwPcuvQuWSGlyx2ODHodPtVwAgA1G/To0CECa6v1HikCmrb5QkV H/VCFRMi28HiijAwOys+CgbKnWrV6qIkR7d8aZ7G5ECLGQl1FzAZ+k2B71yk9/bhIkcC gT+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5312cdYamIggOLI0mjnLGjs91meAMpqwRVJscb2VUOqMvYT52o15 c4Jr9QkwlvgvT9kwAOcDnmqhtG2e0UG1dekW4Rc5oQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzRSy2t6+54zjciw33ms4ueQ5DmaKS0c72dIbhD7Qt1slziOvTvstVohUqr8kDtroerf3eUmXE8gZFtXRarSAI= X-Received: by 2002:a63:6386:: with SMTP id x128mr3091745pgb.148.1604594136428; Thu, 05 Nov 2020 08:35:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 22:05:00 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" Cc: "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" , pce-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 16:35:44 -0000 Hi Mike, And if you want to do that, please explain the scenario that requires the new procedure (and explain why not use RFC 8697 mechanisms itself). That was the original ask in the first email. Thanks! Dhruv PS. IMHO the race condition scenario can be solved by RFC 8697 and the SR Policy parameter check. On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:55 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi Dhruv, > > Yes, I think we should standardize this mechanism - allowing PCE to reque= st PCC to allocate Association ID and Source. > > Thanks, > Mike. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dhruv Dhody > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:16 AM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org; pce-= chairs > Subject: Re: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-= cp-01 > > Hi Mike, > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message with A= ssociation Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean that th= e PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source and= to =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with the Ass= ociation ID. PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Associat= ion ID and reports it back. > > > > > > The comment was applicable for association-id as well as association-sour= ce! The use of 0 as association ID is being introduced by your draft and no= t part of the base RFC 8697 and that triggered the original email. Julien a= nd I were uncomfortable with that and wanted to understand what is new here= for SR policy association that requires a new procedure and cant be handle= d by RFC 8697. > > Thanks, > Dhruv > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org; > > pce-chairs > > Subject: Re: Association Source in > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > > > all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND they > > agree without talking to each other. > > > > > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it seems= that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PCUp= d messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please corre= ct me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say t= hat =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source= =3DX=E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SO= URCE? That would satisfy both conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you i= ntended that? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I did not! > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise there = could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE fo= r the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to create t= he same policy at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go by = the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 of ta= lking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! > > > > > > > > If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy p= arameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one SR-Pol= icy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and generat= e an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association and = can use it subsequently! > > > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above t= wo requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM > > To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > > Cc: pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > Subject: Association Source in > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > Hi Authors, > > > > In > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-0 > > 1#section-4.2, you state - > > > > The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address. This > > applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths. > > The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their own > > Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by > > different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associations= , > > which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represented > > by an Association. > > > > > > > > > > The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is > > allocated. In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST > > be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time > > of policy creation. In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Associatio= n > > ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the PCE > > is asking the PCC to choose an ID value. The PCE MUST NOT send the > > Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages. > > > > > > But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#secti= on-6.1.3 gave quite a bit of leeway while setting the association source. > > > > Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are cre= ated via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (co= lor, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the association= source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about t= he association and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRpt mes= sage which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could u= se the same association! > > > > This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the asso= ciation source in RFC 8697. > > > > Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the iss= ue of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean th= an the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them, o= therwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence. > > > > Thanks! > > Dhruv & Julien > > > > PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)! > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. > > This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IET= F. > > > > Title : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Pol= icy Candidate Paths > > Authors : Mike Koldychev > > Siva Sivabalan > > Colby Barth > > Shuping Peng > > Hooman Bidgoli > > Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.t= xt > > Pages : 20 > > Date : 2020-10-27 > > > > Abstract: > > This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing > > (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths. An SR policy is > > identified by tuple. An SR policy can > > contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is > > identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID. This document proposes extension > > to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR > > policy. The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to > > both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR. > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy > > -cp/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-0 > > 1 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p > > olicy-cp-01 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-poli= c > > y-cp-01 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.i= etf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pce mailing list > > Pce@ietf.org > > 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DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=C2PCrd1T7FrqTnu7sUjVD++lD+jTUE1Qr6Gwogb/ldw=; b=JKOdz6x6sxYjSRulRyWiYQwtkgS0ZvrmYiucx26U9t/PsHGt8Xop+vuWHgDij8ejfQ tBBuQN57nDBOzTMUs2cuDj2LqYuRnzwM/L4Lln/mz0ieZHc0X/hTWeRgweoDEPlfNl0q TDaGwBsTnYSh2/KYvXtfVa0B5fC28y8BUshDTSZGf4FA/qEiVn29Ylg1qXDw7kWSB/ZA U7FNjwm+xmN6vX1AUh5nGP8qqKWaueAHuW5PEK3+LGRdqk7k3E7qHcYI/KePhBud9qhr LaZMSq7boa6ecPlPoJ5RkcwpRvo6JJBkxHzF/CMCpxMMu4mcz0CVL/GUIYnTIkjnK7mx 62gQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=C2PCrd1T7FrqTnu7sUjVD++lD+jTUE1Qr6Gwogb/ldw=; b=e35n7Jnv7UqcUcrwlaKNzpNYSUAxsj3jo+dAkpSBeB107t7j2bLnqiAul4IoBRdr/X 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"pce@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" , pce-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 10:15:37 -0000 Hi Mike, Andrew, Cyril, Thanks for a great discussion, more inline... On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 7:23 AM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi Andrew, > > See inline with [MK] > > Hi Mike, Dhruv, Cyril: > > We do use errors on initiate messages during race conditions, for example= , symbolic name uniqueness on pce-initiated vanilla LSPs. So error based pr= otection to enforce uniqueness and protect race conditions is manageable/do= ne today. > > [MK] The chances of symbolic-names being the same is much less than the c= hance of Association Sources being different. Also the symbolic-name actual= ly has an important meaning, the Association Source has no meaning. Getting= a flood of PCError messages about a field that has no meaning would be bad= . If we can eliminate these error messages completely, why not do that? > > [DD] First, the flood of errors is a stretch by any means :) And I agree with Andrew about the 'initiate' case. > > However: would it make sense for the SRPAG definition, to be defined by t= he =E2=80=98first=E2=80=99 entity which created the candidate path? when it= =E2=80=99s a shared construct with other entities which are now forced to r= e-use that value? Using a Virtual IP on the PCE(s) would certainly help, bu= t wouldn=E2=80=99t work correctly with mixed use PCC/PCE init candidate pat= hs (would anyone do that?), or different vendor PCE/clusters/different virt= ual IPs would add more complexity. The common element I see is the uniquen= ess on PCC and the fact that SRPAG=3D=3DSRPolicy. Since Association Source = is =E2=80=98scoping for the association ID=E2=80=99, and there is no associ= ation scoping used/needed, then the value is essentially unused =E2=80=93 t= herefore just a dummy value assigned by PCC? > > [MK] Yes it=E2=80=99s unused! I like the idea of PCC choosing it. > [DD] For a dynamic association, the default is for the local PCEP speaker to be the association source unless local policy says otherwise. Anyways, based on the requirement that you had in the earlier email - Mike> 1. all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND Mike> 2. they agree without talking to each other. One can make the SRPolicy association to be considered as an operator-configured association (i.e. association parameters configured by the operator beforehand on the PCEP peers). Hear me out, we anyway have the SR Policy configuration happening at all peers, could we say that the PCEP association parameters (type/id/source..) need also be set by the operator. If you are worried that it would be extra configuration, there could be rules set by the operator for filling the association parameters using SRPolicy such as Assoc-type=3DSR-Policy, Assoc-ID/Extended Association ID=3DColor, Assoc-source=3Dheadend/special value. Note that allowing SRPolicy to be both dynamic and operator-configured is also a possiblity. > > > I think there is a bit of ambiguity as mentioned (PCEP session? Router ID= ? ), and still run the risk that PCEP is terminating on different addresses= towards different PCEs / different view of the =E2=80=98PCC address=E2=80= =99. Requesting the PCC to just assign the (unused?) value seems to like a= way to avoid all of the above. With that said, I could be missing other i= mplications/usage of the Association Source field. > > [MK] Yes, requesting the PCC to assign a value would resolve this issue. = But the question is what value would the PCE send in PCInit message when fi= rst creating a policy? I propose that PCE can send just 0.0.0.0 or 0::0 in = PCInit messages to indicate to the PCC to pick a value. Alternatively, PCE = can send any value of Association Source/ID, but the PCC will not honor it = and just choose its own Association Source/ID. > > I would like us (as a WG) to explore if we can use existing mechanisms first (the very reason we have common association groupings). As of now, I am not sold that the use of error in a 'rare' race-condition is such a bad protocol design that we need to update RFC8697 and introduce new rules for dynamic associations, esp when other ways exist. What do others think? Thanks! Dhruv > > Cheers > Andrew > > > > From: Pce on behalf of "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)"= > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 1:30 PM > To: Cyril Margaria , Dhruv Dhody > Cc: "pce@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy= -cp@ietf.org" , pce-chai= rs > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p= olicy-cp-01 > > > > Hi Cyril, > > > > See inline with [MK] > > > > From: Cyril Margaria > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:35 AM > To: Dhruv Dhody > Cc: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; pce@ietf.org; pce-cha= irs ; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.or= g > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p= olicy-cp-01 > > > > > > I have a related question: how do you define the "PCC address", PCEP sess= ion address , one router id? > > [MK] By PCC Address, I meant the IP address of the PCEP session. I believ= e a better approach is actually to set Association Source in PCInitiate mes= sage to 0.0.0.0 or 0::0 and let the PCC allocate the correct Source, same a= s how Association ID allocation is proposed in the draft. > > > > > > For the association source race condition, the race condition will result= in a "Conflicting SRPAG TLV" from a PCInitiate/PCUpd, the PCE can use the = correct SRPAG. > > [MK] It=E2=80=99s not a good protocol design to allow PCError messages to= appear randomly when all the parties are following the protocol. Would rea= lly like to avoid that. > > > > > > > > On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 16:16, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message with A= ssociation Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean that th= e PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source and= to =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with the Ass= ociation ID. PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Associat= ion ID and reports it back. > > > > > > The comment was applicable for association-id as well as > association-source! The use of 0 as association ID is being introduced > by your draft and not part of the base RFC 8697 and that triggered the > original email. Julien and I were uncomfortable with that and wanted > to understand what is new here for SR policy association that requires > a new procedure and cant be handled by RFC 8697. > > Thanks, > Dhruv > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org; pc= e-chairs > > Subject: Re: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-polic= y-cp-01 > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > > > all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND > > they agree without talking to each other. > > > > > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it seems= that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PCUp= d messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please corre= ct me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say t= hat =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source= =3DX=E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SO= URCE? That would satisfy both conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you i= ntended that? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I did not! > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise there = could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE fo= r the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to create t= he same policy at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go by = the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 of ta= lking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! > > > > > > > > If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy p= arameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one SR-Pol= icy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and generat= e an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association and = can use it subsequently! > > > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above t= wo requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM > > To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > > Cc: pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > Subject: Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp= -01 > > > > > > > > Hi Authors, > > > > In https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp= -01#section-4.2, you state - > > > > The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address. This > > applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths. > > The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their own > > Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by > > different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associations= , > > which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represented > > by an Association. > > > > > > > > > > The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is > > allocated. In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUST > > be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the time > > of policy creation. In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Associatio= n > > ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the PCE > > is asking the PCC to choose an ID value. The PCE MUST NOT send the > > Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages. > > > > > > But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#secti= on-6.1.3 gave quite a bit of leeway while setting the association source. > > > > Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are cre= ated via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (co= lor, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the association= source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about t= he association and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRpt mes= sage which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could u= se the same association! > > > > This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the asso= ciation source in RFC 8697. > > > > Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the iss= ue of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean th= an the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them, o= therwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence. > > > > Thanks! > > Dhruv & Julien > > > > PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)! > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. > > This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IET= F. > > > > Title : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing Pol= icy Candidate Paths > > Authors : Mike Koldychev > > Siva Sivabalan > > Colby Barth > > Shuping Peng > > Hooman Bidgoli > > Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01.t= xt > > Pages : 20 > > Date : 2020-10-27 > > > > Abstract: > > This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing > > (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths. An SR policy is > > identified by tuple. An SR policy can > > contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is > > identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID. This document proposes extension > > to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR > > policy. The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to > > both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR. > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-= cp/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-po= licy-cp-01 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-poli= cy-cp-01 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pce mailing list > > Pce@ietf.org > > 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FGzzFINgr7XVo7pfEPxjtVAzDumW9QE1No+4FeY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwL/Zd/MTNlQXsPQ8o6hcEovd9D3S5hpFb+SRQTLTs1OsKJAe0YFdDQ9BO8pzPggysXR+1Lk3GOu0khVAEi4/Q= X-Received: by 2002:a02:48:: with SMTP id 69mr1455043jaa.108.1604669273885; Fri, 06 Nov 2020 05:27:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> <571AB173-2A35-4037-967B-87C3797809CF@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 18:57:17 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" Cc: Dhruv Dhody , pce-chairs , "pce@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" , Cyril Margaria , "Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 13:27:58 -0000 Hi Mike, On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:08 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi Dhruv, > > I don't think it's valid to dismiss race conditions in the protocol becau= se they are "rare". If they can happen at all means that implementations ne= ed to have extra logic to handle these race conditions. > Doesn't this "extra" logic exist anyway, as you must make sure there is only one SR policy association with a given set of SR Policy parameters under normal operations. > What is rare today in your deployment, may not be rare tomorrow in anothe= r deployment. I can think of a case where a PCC connects simultaneously to = many PCEs which create many thousands of SR CPs on it. If they all send PCI= nit messages before the head-end replies to them with PCRpt, then you will = have this "rare" race condition repeated thousands of times. Each PCE will = choose different Source/ID in PCInit and PCC will have to send PCError back= to them. > You make a good point here! What you describe is "possible"! > Furthermore, you need logic on the PCC to choose the right Association ou= t of many. The logic is the first association created for a given SR policy at the PCC and that's it! > There are also undesirable security/privacy implications of putting PCE/N= MS IP address into the Source. It means that if two PCEs are controlling di= fferent CPs of the same policy, then one of the PCEs can learn the IP addre= ss of the other by reading the Association Source of the PCRpt messages fro= m the PCC. This is especially bad, because this Association Source has no s= emantic meaning in SR Policy and may be hidden in normal show commands. Fur= thermore, this IP address of the PCE/NMS that created the policy will be as= sociated to the Policy even after PCE disconnects from the PCC, as long as = any CP remains in that Policy. > If any of this is really an issue, we got to update RFC 8697! I am not advocating for that BTW :) Privacy of one PCE from another in an SR domain (under same administrative control) is quite a stretch IMHO. BTW, what are your thoughts on the operator-configured association in the previous email? Not viable? > All of this can be avoided if we just allow Source/ID to be 0 in PCInit m= essages. Is that really such a big change? > No, but the WG worked on RFC 8697 to make sure all the associations can be handled in a common way as much as possible. When deviating from that, IMHO a higher bar should be met. The WG should ponder if it is met here based on the scenario described above, that's all. Thanks! Dhruv PS. Process comment - If the WG decides this is needed (and I am in rough), the procedure needs to be generic and outside the SR policy draft in a separate I-D, so that other associations can also use it. > Thanks, > Mike. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dhruv Dhody > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 5:15 AM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > Cc: Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; Cyril Mar= garia ; pce@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-rout= ing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce-chairs > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p= olicy-cp-01 > > Hi Mike, Andrew, Cyril, > > Thanks for a great discussion, more inline... > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 7:23 AM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > Hi Andrew, > > > > See inline with [MK] > > > > Hi Mike, Dhruv, Cyril: > > > > We do use errors on initiate messages during race conditions, for examp= le, symbolic name uniqueness on pce-initiated vanilla LSPs. So error based = protection to enforce uniqueness and protect race conditions is manageable/= done today. > > > > [MK] The chances of symbolic-names being the same is much less than the= chance of Association Sources being different. Also the symbolic-name actu= ally has an important meaning, the Association Source has no meaning. Getti= ng a flood of PCError messages about a field that has no meaning would be b= ad. If we can eliminate these error messages completely, why not do that? > > > > > > [DD] First, the flood of errors is a stretch by any means :) And I agree = with Andrew about the 'initiate' case. > > > > > However: would it make sense for the SRPAG definition, to be defined by= the =E2=80=98first=E2=80=99 entity which created the candidate path? when = it=E2=80=99s a shared construct with other entities which are now forced to= re-use that value? Using a Virtual IP on the PCE(s) would certainly help, = but wouldn=E2=80=99t work correctly with mixed use PCC/PCE init candidate p= aths (would anyone do that?), or different vendor PCE/clusters/different vi= rtual IPs would add more complexity. The common element I see is the uniqu= eness on PCC and the fact that SRPAG=3D=3DSRPolicy. Since Association Sourc= e is =E2=80=98scoping for the association ID=E2=80=99, and there is no asso= ciation scoping used/needed, then the value is essentially unused =E2=80=93= therefore just a dummy value assigned by PCC? > > > > [MK] Yes it=E2=80=99s unused! I like the idea of PCC choosing it. > > > > [DD] For a dynamic association, the default is for the local PCEP speaker= to be the association source unless local policy says otherwise. > > Anyways, based on the requirement that you had in the earlier email - > > Mike> 1. all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND > Mike> 2. they agree without talking to each other. > > One can make the SRPolicy association to be considered as an operator-con= figured association (i.e. association parameters configured by the operator= beforehand on the PCEP peers). > > Hear me out, we anyway have the SR Policy configuration happening at all = peers, could we say that the PCEP association parameters > (type/id/source..) need also be set by the operator. If you are worried t= hat it would be extra configuration, there could be rules set by the operat= or for filling the association parameters using SRPolicy such as Assoc-type= =3DSR-Policy, Assoc-ID/Extended Association ID=3DColor, Assoc-source=3Dhead= end/special value. > > Note that allowing SRPolicy to be both dynamic and operator-configured is= also a possiblity. > > > > > > > I think there is a bit of ambiguity as mentioned (PCEP session? Router = ID? ), and still run the risk that PCEP is terminating on different address= es towards different PCEs / different view of the =E2=80=98PCC address=E2= =80=99. Requesting the PCC to just assign the (unused?) value seems to lik= e a way to avoid all of the above. With that said, I could be missing othe= r implications/usage of the Association Source field. > > > > [MK] Yes, requesting the PCC to assign a value would resolve this issue= . But the question is what value would the PCE send in PCInit message when = first creating a policy? I propose that PCE can send just 0.0.0.0 or 0::0 i= n PCInit messages to indicate to the PCC to pick a value. Alternatively, PC= E can send any value of Association Source/ID, but the PCC will not honor i= t and just choose its own Association Source/ID. > > > > > > I would like us (as a WG) to explore if we can use existing mechanisms fi= rst (the very reason we have common association groupings). > As of now, I am not sold that the use of error in a 'rare' > race-condition is such a bad protocol design that we need to update > RFC8697 and introduce new rules for dynamic associations, esp when other = ways exist. > > What do others think? > > Thanks! > Dhruv > > > > > Cheers > > Andrew > > > > > > > > From: Pce on behalf of "Mike Koldychev > > (mkoldych)" > > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 1:30 PM > > To: Cyril Margaria , Dhruv Dhody > > > > Cc: "pce@ietf.org" , > > "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" > > , pce-chairs > > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > Hi Cyril, > > > > > > > > See inline with [MK] > > > > > > > > From: Cyril Margaria > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:35 AM > > To: Dhruv Dhody > > Cc: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; pce@ietf.org; > > pce-chairs ; > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a related question: how do you define the "PCC address", PCEP se= ssion address , one router id? > > > > [MK] By PCC Address, I meant the IP address of the PCEP session. I beli= eve a better approach is actually to set Association Source in PCInitiate m= essage to 0.0.0.0 or 0::0 and let the PCC allocate the correct Source, same= as how Association ID allocation is proposed in the draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the association source race condition, the race condition will resu= lt in a "Conflicting SRPAG TLV" from a PCInitiate/PCUpd, the PCE can use th= e correct SRPAG. > > > > [MK] It=E2=80=99s not a good protocol design to allow PCError messages = to appear randomly when all the parties are following the protocol. Would r= eally like to avoid that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 16:16, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message with= Association Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean that = the PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source a= nd to =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with the A= ssociation ID. PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Associ= ation ID and reports it back. > > > > > > > > > > The comment was applicable for association-id as well as > > association-source! The use of 0 as association ID is being introduced > > by your draft and not part of the base RFC 8697 and that triggered the > > original email. Julien and I were uncomfortable with that and wanted > > to understand what is new here for SR policy association that requires > > a new procedure and cant be handled by RFC 8697. > > > > Thanks, > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM > > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org; > > > pce-chairs > > > Subject: Re: Association Source in > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > > > > > all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND they > > > agree without talking to each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it see= ms that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/PC= Upd messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please cor= rect me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you say= that =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Source= =3DX=E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASSO_SO= URCE? That would satisfy both conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you i= ntended that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I did not! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise ther= e could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURCE = for the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to create= the same policy at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go b= y the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 of = talking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! > > > > > > > > > > > > If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Policy= parameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one SR-P= olicy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and gener= ate an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association an= d can use it subsequently! > > > > > > > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the above= two requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic association= . > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:59 AM > > > To: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > > > Cc: pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > > Subject: Association Source in > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Authors, > > > > > > In > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp > > > -01#section-4.2, you state - > > > > > > The Association Source MUST be set to the PCC's address. This > > > applies for both PCC-initiated and PCE-initiated candidate paths. > > > The reasoning for this is that if different PCEs could set their o= wn > > > Association Source, then the candidate paths instantiated by > > > different PCEs would by definition be in different PCEP Associatio= ns, > > > which contradicts our requirement that the SR Policy is represente= d > > > by an Association. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Association ID MUST be chosen by the PCC when the SR policy is > > > allocated. In PCRpt messages from the PCC, the Association ID MUS= T > > > be set to the unique value that was allocated by the PCC at the ti= me > > > of policy creation. In PCInit messages from the PCE, the Associat= ion > > > ID MUST be set to the reserved value 0, which indicates that the P= CE > > > is asking the PCC to choose an ID value. The PCE MUST NOT send th= e > > > Extended Association ID TLV in the PCInit messages. > > > > > > > > > But the base RFC 8697 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8697.html#sec= tion-6.1.3 gave quite a bit of leeway while setting the association source. > > > > > > Consider 2 PCEs - PCE1 & PCE2, I am assuming if candidate paths are c= reated via two different PCEs both will be aware of SR Policy identifiers (= color, end-point, etc). When PCE1 initiates CP1, it could use the associati= on source as Virtual-IP or NMS (instead of PCE1). The PCE2 will learn about= the association and the corresponding SR policy parameters via the PCRpt m= essage which is sent to both PCEs. So when the PCE2 initiates CP2, it could= use the same association! > > > > > > This was the very reason to include the flexibility in setting the as= sociation source in RFC 8697. > > > > > > Julien and I discussed this and we feel you are trying to solve the i= ssue of sharing an association ID between several PCEs by using a new mean = than the one in RFC 8697. If you have other reasons then please state them,= otherwise, RFC 8697 should take precedence. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Dhruv & Julien > > > > > > PS. I quickly drew a figure if that helps (see attached)! > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:42 PM wrote: > > > > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts di= rectories. > > > This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the I= ETF. > > > > > > Title : PCEP extension to support Segment Routing P= olicy Candidate Paths > > > Authors : Mike Koldychev > > > Siva Sivabalan > > > Colby Barth > > > Shuping Peng > > > Hooman Bidgoli > > > Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01= .txt > > > Pages : 20 > > > Date : 2020-10-27 > > > > > > Abstract: > > > This document introduces a mechanism to specify a Segment Routing > > > (SR) policy, as a collection of SR candidate paths. An SR policy = is > > > identified by tuple. An SR policy can > > > contain one or more candidate paths where each candidate path is > > > identified in PCEP via an PLSP-ID. This document proposes extensi= on > > > to PCEP to support association among candidate paths of a given SR > > > policy. The mechanism proposed in this document is applicable to > > > both MPLS and IPv6 data planes of SR. > > > > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-poli > > > cy-cp/ > > > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp > > > -01 > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing > > > -policy-cp-01 > > > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-po= l > > > icy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools= .ietf.org. > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > > > > 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SMTP id 187mr2894429ybw.281.1604672486356; Fri, 06 Nov 2020 06:21:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> <571AB173-2A35-4037-967B-87C3797809CF@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: From: Cyril Margaria Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 14:21:15 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" Cc: Dhruv Dhody , "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" , Dhruv Dhody , pce-chairs , "pce@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" , "Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087bc7805b370ed11" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 14:21:30 -0000 --00000000000087bc7805b370ed11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 at 14:09, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > Hi Dhruv, > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dhruv Dhody > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 8:27 AM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > Cc: Dhruv Dhody ; pce-chairs ; > pce@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; Cyril > Margaria ; Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) < > andrew.stone@nokia.com> > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > Hi Mike, > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:08 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > I don't think it's valid to dismiss race conditions in the protocol > because they are "rare". If they can happen at all means that > implementations need to have extra logic to handle these race conditions. > > > > Doesn't this "extra" logic exist anyway, as you must make sure there is > only one SR policy association with a given set of SR Policy parameters > under normal operations. > > [MK] If the PCC allocates the Association Source/ID, then it's always > going to choose a unique value, so there will never be any collision. So > no, this "extra" logic won't exist if we go with my proposal. > [MC] that's assuming that the PCE always sends 0, and not the previously returned value, at that point why bother using or tracking association ? > > > BTW, what are your thoughts on the operator-configured association in the > previous email? Not viable? > > [MK] You could set AssocExtID=3DColor, but I=E2=80=99m not sure what you = would set > Source to? Can we just set it to 0.0.0.0/0::0 and be done? Isn't that > also a "special value"? > AssocExtID=3DColor, endpoint Source should be a valid IP address, 0.0.0.0 looks OK, but I am rusty on that. 0 is reserved, 0xFFFF is all assocation, 1 works as a fixed number not in a reserved range. > > > All of this can be avoided if we just allow Source/ID to be 0 in PCInit > messages. Is that really such a big change? > > > > No, but the WG worked on RFC 8697 to make sure all the associations can b= e > handled in a common way as much as possible. When deviating from that, IM= HO > a higher bar should be met. The WG should ponder if it is met here based = on > the scenario described above, that's all. > > [MK] I fully understand, but the value of 0 is reserved in that RFC. Can > each application use 0/0.0.0.0/0::0 for its own purpose? Is that > allowed/forbidden in the RFC? > --00000000000087bc7805b370ed11 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike

On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 at 14:09, Mike Koldychev (= mkoldych) <mkoldych@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:
Hi Dh= ruv,

-----Original Message-----
From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 8:27 AM
To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Dhruv Dhody <= dd@dhruvdhody.com>; pce-chairs <pce-chairs@ietf.org>; pce@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-se= gment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>= ;; Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <andrew.stone@nokia.com>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-pol= icy-cp-01

Hi Mike,

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:08 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych=3D40cisco.com@dm= arc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Dhruv,
>
> I don't think it's valid to dismiss race conditions in the pro= tocol because they are "rare". If they can happen at all means th= at implementations need to have extra logic to handle these race conditions= .
>

Doesn't this "extra" logic exist anyway, as you must make sur= e there is only one SR policy association with a given set of SR Policy par= ameters under normal operations.

[MK] If the PCC allocates the Association Source/ID, then it's always g= oing to choose a unique value, so there will never be any collision. So no,= this "extra" logic won't exist if we go with my proposal.

[MC] that's assuming that the PCE alw= ays sends 0, and not the previously returned value, at that point why bothe= r using or tracking association ?=C2=A0
=C2=A0
<cut&= gt;


BTW, what are your thoughts on the operator-configured association in the p= revious email? Not viable?

[MK] You could set AssocExtID=3DColor, but I=E2=80=99m not sure what you wo= uld set Source to? Can we just set it to 0.0.0.0/0::0 and be done? Isn't = that also a "special value"?

= AssocExtID=3DColor, endpoint

Source should be = a valid IP address, 0.0.0.0 looks OK, but I am rusty on that.
0 i= s reserved, 0xFFFF is all assocation, 1 works as a fixed number not in a re= served range.
=C2=A0

> All of this can be avoided if we just allow Source/ID to be 0 in PCIni= t messages. Is that really such a big change?
>

No, but the WG worked on RFC 8697 to make sure all the associations can be = handled in a common way as much as possible. When deviating from that, IMHO= a higher bar should be met. The WG should ponder if it is met here based o= n the scenario described above, that's all.

[MK] I fully understand, but the value of 0 is reserved in that RFC. Can ea= ch application use 0/0.0.0.0/0::0 for its own purpose? Is that allowed/forbid= den in the RFC?

=C2=A0<cut>
=
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15.20.3541.022; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 14:41:32 +0000 From: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" To: Cyril Margaria CC: Dhruv Dhody , Dhruv Dhody , pce-chairs , "pce@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" , "Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Thread-Topic: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 Thread-Index: AQHWs0FDpv7QUwBDr0CmS9tu2ryFnKm5kByggAAeEQCAAASBcIAABMEAgAAFWwCAAB488IAAKGYAgABP1tCAAJGWgIAAEWHwgAAkXICAAAIDAIAADRGAgAAEKfA= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 14:41:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> <571AB173-2A35-4037-967B-87C3797809CF@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2607:fea8:e3a0:e690:1535:772b:69e1:1725] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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07:50:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160381151685.9996.2859530250089756904@ietfa.amsl.com> <571AB173-2A35-4037-967B-87C3797809CF@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 21:20:04 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" Cc: Dhruv Dhody , "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" , pce-chairs , "pce@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" , Cyril Margaria , "Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 15:50:45 -0000 Hi Mike, On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 7:39 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi Dhruv, > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dhruv Dhody > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 8:27 AM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > Cc: Dhruv Dhody ; pce-chairs ; pc= e@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; Cyril Margar= ia ; Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p= olicy-cp-01 > > Hi Mike, > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:08 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > I don't think it's valid to dismiss race conditions in the protocol bec= ause they are "rare". If they can happen at all means that implementations = need to have extra logic to handle these race conditions. > > > > Doesn't this "extra" logic exist anyway, as you must make sure there is o= nly one SR policy association with a given set of SR Policy parameters unde= r normal operations. > > [MK] If the PCC allocates the Association Source/ID, then it's always goi= ng to choose a unique value, so there will never be any collision. So no, t= his "extra" logic won't exist if we go with my proposal. > +1 to what Cyril said. The idea that even when PCE knows about the existing association created at the PCC and it wants a new CP to join that association, it cannot do so and it must use association-id as zero is weird - there is a reason we maintain associations at the PCE. So my reading was that the use of 0 was only when the SR Policy association was not known. Also, you don't mention the PCUpd message in your draft, first an existing SR-TE path (RFC 8664) can join the SR Policy association using the PCUpd message. Also, you may want to update the existing CP and carry the already known association in the PCUpd message. I assume you would want to put "a non-zero PCC allocated ID''! > > > What is rare today in your deployment, may not be rare tomorrow in anot= her deployment. I can think of a case where a PCC connects simultaneously t= o many PCEs which create many thousands of SR CPs on it. If they all send P= CInit messages before the head-end replies to them with PCRpt, then you wil= l have this "rare" race condition repeated thousands of times. Each PCE wil= l choose different Source/ID in PCInit and PCC will have to send PCError ba= ck to them. > > > > You make a good point here! What you describe is "possible"! > > [MK] I would say "very likely" that you would get a flood of PCError mess= ages in that scenario under scale. > > > > Furthermore, you need logic on the PCC to choose the right Association = out of many. > > The logic is the first association created for a given SR policy at the P= CC and that's it! > > > There are also undesirable security/privacy implications of putting PCE= /NMS IP address into the Source. It means that if two PCEs are controlling = different CPs of the same policy, then one of the PCEs can learn the IP add= ress of the other by reading the Association Source of the PCRpt messages f= rom the PCC. This is especially bad, because this Association Source has no= semantic meaning in SR Policy and may be hidden in normal show commands. F= urthermore, this IP address of the PCE/NMS that created the policy will be = associated to the Policy even after PCE disconnects from the PCC, as long a= s any CP remains in that Policy. > > > > If any of this is really an issue, we got to update RFC 8697! I am not ad= vocating for that BTW :) Privacy of one PCE from another in an SR domain (= under same administrative control) is quite a stretch IMHO. > > [MK] The two PCEs may not be under one administrative control. Network A = may delegate some tunnels/policies to Network B PCE (for routing through Ne= twork B, for example). Delegation outside of your network domain would open you up to so much more security concern than just knowing another PCE address! Even in the case you mention we would assume there would be a PCEP session between the PCEs across network domains (so hiding PCE address should not be a concern). > In this case, the internal NMS/PCE addresses of Network A would be leaked= . An operator who is not intimate with the PCEP messaging internals might n= ever even realize this leak is happening. I believe we should update RFC 86= 97, we need to at least state that a privacy violation is possible and that= the operator needs to assume that internal NMS/PCE addresses are going to = be leaked to other PCEs via the ASSOCIATION object. > > > BTW, what are your thoughts on the operator-configured association in the= previous email? Not viable? > > [MK] You could set AssocExtID=3DColor, but I=E2=80=99m not sure what you = would set Source to? Can we just set it to 0.0.0.0/0::0 and be done? Isn't = that also a "special value"? > You can set association-source as head-end IP address which is known as part of SR-Policy tuple . This rule can be scoped under the association-type=3DSR-Policy (and not applicable anywhere else). > > > All of this can be avoided if we just allow Source/ID to be 0 in PCInit= messages. Is that really such a big change? > > > > No, but the WG worked on RFC 8697 to make sure all the associations can b= e handled in a common way as much as possible. When deviating from that, IM= HO a higher bar should be met. The WG should ponder if it is met here based= on the scenario described above, that's all. > > [MK] I fully understand, but the value of 0 is reserved in that RFC. Can = each application use 0/0.0.0.0/0::0 for its own purpose? Is that allowed/fo= rbidden in the RFC? > The issue for me is not so much the use of 0, it is the idea that it MUST always be a PCC that allocates association information (going against an existing standard). I feel a simple rule of association creation at any PCEP peer such as Assoc-Type=3DSR-Policy, Assoc-ID=3D0x0, Ext-Assoc-ID=3Dcolor, Association-source=3Dheadend can solve it! Have a good weekend everyone! Thanks! Dhruv > > Thanks! > Dhruv > > PS. Process comment - If the WG decides this is needed (and I am in rough= ), the procedure needs to be generic and outside the SR policy draft in a s= eparate I-D, so that other associations can also use it. > > > Thanks, > > Mike. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 5:15 AM > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > Cc: Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; Cyril > > Margaria ; pce@ietf.org; > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > Hi Mike, Andrew, Cyril, > > > > Thanks for a great discussion, more inline... > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 7:23 AM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > > > Hi Andrew, > > > > > > See inline with [MK] > > > > > > Hi Mike, Dhruv, Cyril: > > > > > > We do use errors on initiate messages during race conditions, for exa= mple, symbolic name uniqueness on pce-initiated vanilla LSPs. So error base= d protection to enforce uniqueness and protect race conditions is manageabl= e/done today. > > > > > > [MK] The chances of symbolic-names being the same is much less than t= he chance of Association Sources being different. Also the symbolic-name ac= tually has an important meaning, the Association Source has no meaning. Get= ting a flood of PCError messages about a field that has no meaning would be= bad. If we can eliminate these error messages completely, why not do that? > > > > > > > > > > [DD] First, the flood of errors is a stretch by any means :) And I agre= e with Andrew about the 'initiate' case. > > > > > > > > However: would it make sense for the SRPAG definition, to be defined = by the =E2=80=98first=E2=80=99 entity which created the candidate path? whe= n it=E2=80=99s a shared construct with other entities which are now forced = to re-use that value? Using a Virtual IP on the PCE(s) would certainly help= , but wouldn=E2=80=99t work correctly with mixed use PCC/PCE init candidate= paths (would anyone do that?), or different vendor PCE/clusters/different = virtual IPs would add more complexity. The common element I see is the uni= queness on PCC and the fact that SRPAG=3D=3DSRPolicy. Since Association Sou= rce is =E2=80=98scoping for the association ID=E2=80=99, and there is no as= sociation scoping used/needed, then the value is essentially unused =E2=80= =93 therefore just a dummy value assigned by PCC? > > > > > > [MK] Yes it=E2=80=99s unused! I like the idea of PCC choosing it. > > > > > > > [DD] For a dynamic association, the default is for the local PCEP speak= er to be the association source unless local policy says otherwise. > > > > Anyways, based on the requirement that you had in the earlier email - > > > > Mike> 1. all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, > > Mike> AND 2. they agree without talking to each other. > > > > One can make the SRPolicy association to be considered as an operator-c= onfigured association (i.e. association parameters configured by the operat= or beforehand on the PCEP peers). > > > > Hear me out, we anyway have the SR Policy configuration happening at > > all peers, could we say that the PCEP association parameters > > (type/id/source..) need also be set by the operator. If you are worried= that it would be extra configuration, there could be rules set by the oper= ator for filling the association parameters using SRPolicy such as Assoc-ty= pe=3DSR-Policy, Assoc-ID/Extended Association ID=3DColor, Assoc-source=3Dhe= adend/special value. > > > > Note that allowing SRPolicy to be both dynamic and operator-configured = is also a possiblity. > > > > > > > > > > > I think there is a bit of ambiguity as mentioned (PCEP session? Route= r ID? ), and still run the risk that PCEP is terminating on different addre= sses towards different PCEs / different view of the =E2=80=98PCC address=E2= =80=99. Requesting the PCC to just assign the (unused?) value seems to lik= e a way to avoid all of the above. With that said, I could be missing othe= r implications/usage of the Association Source field. > > > > > > [MK] Yes, requesting the PCC to assign a value would resolve this iss= ue. But the question is what value would the PCE send in PCInit message whe= n first creating a policy? I propose that PCE can send just 0.0.0.0 or 0::0= in PCInit messages to indicate to the PCC to pick a value. Alternatively, = PCE can send any value of Association Source/ID, but the PCC will not honor= it and just choose its own Association Source/ID. > > > > > > > > > > I would like us (as a WG) to explore if we can use existing mechanisms = first (the very reason we have common association groupings). > > As of now, I am not sold that the use of error in a 'rare' > > race-condition is such a bad protocol design that we need to update > > RFC8697 and introduce new rules for dynamic associations, esp when othe= r ways exist. > > > > What do others think? > > > > Thanks! > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pce on behalf of "Mike Koldychev > > > (mkoldych)" > > > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 1:30 PM > > > To: Cyril Margaria , Dhruv Dhody > > > > > > Cc: "pce@ietf.org" , > > > "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" > > > , pce-chairs > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cyril, > > > > > > > > > > > > See inline with [MK] > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Cyril Margaria > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:35 AM > > > To: Dhruv Dhody > > > Cc: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; pce@ietf.org; > > > pce-chairs ; > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a related question: how do you define the "PCC address", PCEP = session address , one router id? > > > > > > [MK] By PCC Address, I meant the IP address of the PCEP session. I be= lieve a better approach is actually to set Association Source in PCInitiate= message to 0.0.0.0 or 0::0 and let the PCC allocate the correct Source, sa= me as how Association ID allocation is proposed in the draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the association source race condition, the race condition will re= sult in a "Conflicting SRPAG TLV" from a PCInitiate/PCUpd, the PCE can use = the correct SRPAG. > > > > > > [MK] It=E2=80=99s not a good protocol design to allow PCError message= s to appear randomly when all the parties are following the protocol. Would= really like to avoid that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 16:16, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message wi= th Association Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean tha= t the PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Source= and to =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with the= Association ID. PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an Asso= ciation ID and reports it back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The comment was applicable for association-id as well as > > > association-source! The use of 0 as association ID is being > > > introduced by your draft and not part of the base RFC 8697 and that > > > triggered the original email. Julien and I were uncomfortable with > > > that and wanted to understand what is new here for SR policy > > > association that requires a new procedure and cant be handled by RFC = 8697. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM > > > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > > > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; > > > > pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > > > Subject: Re: Association Source in > > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > > > > > > > all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND > > > > they agree without talking to each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it s= eems that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRupt/= PCUpd messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please c= orrect me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you s= ay that =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation Sour= ce=3DX=E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASSO_= SOURCE? That would satisfy both conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if you= intended that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I did not! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise th= ere could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOURC= E for the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to crea= te the same policy at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to go= by the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2 o= f talking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Poli= cy parameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one SR= -Policy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and gen= erate an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the association = and can use it subsequently! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the abo= ve two requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic > > > > association From nobody Fri Nov 6 11:38:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF5E3A0B83; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 11:38:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no 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--000000000000d3dcbc05b3931072-- From nobody Sun Nov 8 04:36:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FE83A0A84 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 04:36:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ubITG96ylVXQ for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 04:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x129.google.com (mail-il1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64C9F3A0A74 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 04:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x129.google.com with SMTP id e16so5821671ile.0 for ; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 04:36:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OIT9TDt4YPhlkOdXT8hdKoRCssaWSLwztGshHjjFcE4=; b=DhYgykyGLBSe3NlgW0/i0JBS1hadWwRN7hKjJ/1coCERwzKF4W8vaPsVLjBcxF4Ntm zTsnnJf/kReQSIYtar7R0A6z3XFDzkm/LFpgCiD8v1vUOk8u9pJINjNyIOLWFHZ4hN9C gcdhfW+PRbwc8f+uNYCdvNCu1lZC7M1by6tsJGGgu4rSsk8boP7yeThZbazXc+xjdXiJ dlcfJBzKG+/MeL9CWSiVpY36wTnzl/o9YqzWgAAWrItktcGG7l7Hyc7jDD2cWIm6qE8a bXN8wWBrDkcxiBo+kAQXM3TegofRAF5w0L+HMx/+BnpmkXXve2IPOTTgmghmHNfvEtA8 +raA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OIT9TDt4YPhlkOdXT8hdKoRCssaWSLwztGshHjjFcE4=; b=TjdJKMHcOV7O9sMRf2aQTWQWHPlQEVUXmN6Uu/RgfRL8Usvk8bamv1tGktX6ltsN8z MxLXPcp52mNiafbKP5FpDeXn25ZfDk+B9paPa/YV4IrsVZWctLX4bW80n2aHSDSg62qp eeykwBelFaXNtdU6KACScZPqHLofyTxPSbw7Uqzxvl3inUoKIGqtsoST87Rw3n8HxwAd qZfX+sglSU3QTypbDyOx0SBBVT2chIw/zxWZZ05uqri4vkmOrtvcjgK0w4AmHzpF4A4b wFKQI4+PkHAbhzt6bdTDER/bPzdi3gQllw1l86+6bioG8jJOn1ZS5TIeTf4HP4ERSBfO TGQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53303nAUVbFCK7eOTZBIf2I7pfkcibBPPTsxIpy7+g8VvLyP4qaZ Uwmklrcz97blgrk1703Orw1EbzNXv+UswLKqvRg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxQ2P2SLiCXlHePiBbDnRa8sP0+1boOYEBIxM/IFsSLlsWWzJ2lHKoxOeNh0xm50JQp1nponJ4+PgR7bK0hm/c= X-Received: by 2002:a92:98cf:: with SMTP id a76mr5819155ill.179.1604838961676; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 04:36:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Vishnu Pavan Beeram Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 06:35:50 -0600 Message-ID: To: Dhruv Dhody Cc: pce@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003b890005b397b0b9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 12:36:04 -0000 --0000000000003b890005b397b0b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Support adoption! The draft addresses a hole in the existing protection toolkit. It would however be useful to have a generic way of requesting or mandating each LSP/path attribute (similar to RSVP LSP/HOP attributes). I haven't read draft-dhody-pce-stateful-pce-optional, but I'm assuming that it doesn't cover local protection enforcement. Regards, -Pavan On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:41 AM Dhruv Dhody wrote: > Hi WG, > > This email begins the WG adoption poll for > draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02 > > Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons > - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are > you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to > the list. > > This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday). > > Thanks! > Dhruv & Julien > > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > --0000000000003b890005b397b0b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support adoption! The draft addresses a hole in the e= xisting protection toolkit.

It would however = be useful to have a generic way of requesting or mandating each LSP/path at= tribute (similar to RSVP LSP/HOP attributes). I haven't read draft-dhod= y-pce-stateful-pce-optional, but I'm assuming that it doesn't cover= local protection enforcement.

Regards,
<= div>-Pavan

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:41 AM Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com> wrote:
Hi WG,

This email begins the WG adoption poll for
draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02.

https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02<= br>
Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons
- Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are
you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to
the list.

This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday).

Thanks!
Dhruv & Julien

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--0000000000003b890005b397b0b9-- From nobody Sun Nov 8 06:03:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F993A0DAE for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 06:03:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id if7EOj6SaI8n for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 06:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CF8A3A0A90 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 06:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id a18so5322242pfl.3 for ; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 06:03:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YN25Wvs3thXhikbI2F0lvmeXpR/bky1X8qYZTdL3RyI=; b=nVDW/amZ2YVo0iFsPqs6jmMEdaCHCk/NBZ7Ifpf/bl1bLOOCFKm+rDR3kleXon0QzQ 5dTzqw2/tewGh5ybkGfYYitGICjqOJW7AIMepV1UZXJ0ni9yJpoue8T8IEtC9KwJPlD6 hgyVrA3FZx8J+sM0T3wlZJITlAaclXTTQ/Q4pubF9cFoIJShAC+zlRSYAVxnQfItf+xr QTL7xequXRO3MUnd7koz/ipQtM5nQrVGu7U1np+om/xUxQmIXKwE6eVm141zjTHSQ/dp XlTj6eSwfwr5WvqJmFo0FLwmHXyGg6Sew5Oo5slrCnyLIX9SbTLIl3WfCMLSdDoT47Bh wfUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YN25Wvs3thXhikbI2F0lvmeXpR/bky1X8qYZTdL3RyI=; b=RZhNWOPEThTrNTmEyVP66w22EuVIw3Jf8dGu0vApnZR7PrkQ5nF5QnzcQTWD4f4qyz eNbVH44OqOsNmqu5V9kIzoV0ZwfmNavo+zElQwN6Ki1uDI1wYZUJE4mkAGIoIRivD07u Bw8q7USY8xhRjEDaGkguAYdMVkVX6Q1qmz6ccMTTjS6RcnyfACUoZmJTRoFi45Z2fLfT c9gxCaqQ+lpFJHs0U3HHfpQdfmS0qDW0QRPC6f3IL35+aXqR57vV1m1lAXGfkm2w5kDB U/9i+czPLWn74KD1yALPLbuvWZdPkLpFsHhWXH9KpZX77xixXrgUsYKTo0EMKmuzb9NL UBPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532qjimEM2YBsgIvRPnpAeScuo3B0cvYIdq+HQ6JbK+bs01KCvr4 Qz3zIUdrMOyONjiTqXXWRneJHdYQD7I057o/V9J/xw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZv1sPdgdMtrpqw/IBcoBs2K32VhFdmgk03kB6ur/aJv0iKu5jFEoEA9+9dzipfBHJnIf9HTw8rjyRFLa5nkQ= X-Received: by 2002:a65:47ca:: with SMTP id f10mr8889122pgs.298.1604844222026; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 06:03:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 19:33:05 +0530 Message-ID: To: Vishnu Pavan Beeram Cc: pce@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 14:03:44 -0000 Hi Pavan, Thanks for participating in the adoption call. Some clarification questions= ... Could you point the WG to the right reference in RSVP-TE? Is it RFC 5420? The Stateful-PCE-optional draft is a generic mechanism to mark whole PCEP objects as mandatory and optional to process. You are right that it doesn't cover local protection enforcement at the granularity of the per-attribute in the LSPA object. Please confirm if my understanding is correct? Note that there is a single flag defined in the LSPA object so far, so generalizing would help a future flag when and if it gets added. Could you suggest what change you would make to turn this procedure generic? Thanks! Dhruv On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 6:06 PM Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote: > > Support adoption! The draft addresses a hole in the existing protection t= oolkit. > > It would however be useful to have a generic way of requesting or mandati= ng each LSP/path attribute (similar to RSVP LSP/HOP attributes). I haven't = read draft-dhody-pce-stateful-pce-optional, but I'm assuming that it doesn'= t cover local protection enforcement. > > Regards, > -Pavan > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:41 AM Dhruv Dhody wrote: >> >> Hi WG, >> >> This email begins the WG adoption poll for >> draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-e= nforcement-02 >> >> Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons >> - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are >> you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to >> the list. >> >> This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday). >> >> Thanks! >> Dhruv & Julien >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pce mailing list >> Pce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From nobody Sun Nov 8 21:52:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1EA93A11FF for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 21:52:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3-XbICn8hq6Z for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 21:52:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF1C43A11FD for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 21:52:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id n5so7209487ile.7 for ; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 21:52:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jyG2G6xSUqddi3EU7bcYRKYhEdo3EJnFQs3lfYW4upg=; b=sMiiWTsOnrLb0JBFlwDig9R/dxTlcf8Ar8XLerS/dpPZxl5+YC1sx6fnHK3tB73ZsK /gqWU3KSOZF1n0uClgSgBeS9owJFlBNt/HztPATN6QJHKfIt6Q8v8/ckQDF53fFXZafF VBuel+Argcgj9MzjWVESVzCXwozKUOQamz6irGgZisfsFOGyv1TwR8EwdxGtRYJSr93Q YHGfH7TNCIG6nr5si5ds8eZfHfc0YIAqO+WUzUnMe2GszItt64G2w7rfdvdzcV+baxU0 NDFkb7naf2UsrI5WUaiMaONOImSS2ETxTXOhu1bmMUw8KCa75bIsxAiVCELfhIx7X9Tr Y/nQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jyG2G6xSUqddi3EU7bcYRKYhEdo3EJnFQs3lfYW4upg=; b=VlgXtodQdEyKPC7iaivCFm9+i/o9r88SbNSHWvmvbKx7VoWUfMHLvGPW+rQ72L+WMb P9qHsyy0WlT4KyLseu5EJZuAzoe0+YNucwP/wl/n2JV5DPgPwxIRi+b318COYHGArVAw dkUfCwyehO7cPqlpDUZOlUmXzu4OkOK/wvT90zL+kpITEQVK5dnDn6n5aEVHvukk/g0Q IftAJ7Y2AGbrsKz25bQt5/8mEivrGqR7GthyocXZ2G3qciQIv9EiKqopmxxw5IMNXDj5 2js3JMthjS32AiAtukpQtKv97gn+7lEcnK9XUNQryvjZ/P8kP+wbvkSdwvMOAFt2Da8D GTsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5338dxSyQjBTLxAHQhSZIZPZh+/qLv1WuwzjOwI68mmgpm10mfCM cJ4qZXRfxfnOI6lIZD+BY+iUoa0PLHKMoNdJqY0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyGHnwLeRuIj8PFkQiReBFj4CuvcHtJ5nsTkS2eQFCRqtjXlTEOhG0Q0XTaBtXkEIniajmVCiDYbj/KFcciH/Y= X-Received: by 2002:a92:98cf:: with SMTP id a76mr7815603ill.179.1604901172102; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 21:52:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Vishnu Pavan Beeram Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 23:52:41 -0600 Message-ID: To: Dhruv Dhody Cc: pce@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000434a6f05b3a62c9a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 05:52:55 -0000 --000000000000434a6f05b3a62c9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dhruv, Hi! Yes, RFC5420 is the correct reference. I was referring to how the =E2=80=9CAttribute Flags TLV=E2=80=9D is processed when present in the LSP_= ATTRIBUTES and LSP_REQUIRED_ATTRIBUTES objects. A similar approach can be employed for the PCEP LSPA object. This would need us to (a) Introduce a new flags TLV and (b) Introduce a new LSPA_REQUIRED/LSPA_ENFORCED object that can carry this TLV when needed. This can be done now or later when there are more flags defined. Regards, -Pavan On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:03 AM Dhruv Dhody wrote: > Hi Pavan, > > Thanks for participating in the adoption call. Some clarification > questions... > > Could you point the WG to the right reference in RSVP-TE? Is it RFC 5420? > > The Stateful-PCE-optional draft is a generic mechanism to mark whole > PCEP objects as mandatory and optional to process. You are right that > it doesn't cover local protection enforcement at the granularity of > the per-attribute in the LSPA object. Please confirm if my > understanding is correct? > > Note that there is a single flag defined in the LSPA object so far, so > generalizing would help a future flag when and if it gets added. Could > you suggest what change you would make to turn this procedure generic? > > Thanks! > Dhruv > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 6:06 PM Vishnu Pavan Beeram > wrote: > > > > Support adoption! The draft addresses a hole in the existing protection > toolkit. > > > > It would however be useful to have a generic way of requesting or > mandating each LSP/path attribute (similar to RSVP LSP/HOP attributes). I > haven't read draft-dhody-pce-stateful-pce-optional, but I'm assuming that > it doesn't cover local protection enforcement. > > > > Regards, > > -Pavan > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:41 AM Dhruv Dhody wrote: > >> > >> Hi WG, > >> > >> This email begins the WG adoption poll for > >> draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. > >> > >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-en= forcement-02 > >> > >> Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons > >> - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are > >> you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to > >> the list. > >> > >> This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday). > >> > >> Thanks! > >> Dhruv & Julien > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pce mailing list > >> Pce@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce > --000000000000434a6f05b3a62c9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dhruv, Hi!

Yes, RFC5420 is t= he correct reference. I was referring to how the =E2=80=9CAttribute Flags TLV=E2=80=9D= is processed when present in the LSP_ATTRIBUTES and LSP_REQUIRED_ATTRIBUTES objects.


A similar app= roach can be employed for the PCEP LSPA object. This would need us to (a) I= ntroduce a new flags TLV and (b) Introduce a new LSPA_REQUIRED/LSPA_ENFORCED object that can carry this = TLV when needed. This can be done now or later when there are more flags de= fined.

=C2=A0

Regards,

-Pavan


=


= On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:03 AM Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com> wrote:
Hi Pavan,

Thanks for participating in the adoption call. Some clarification questions= ...

Could you point the WG to the right reference in RSVP-TE? Is it RFC 5420?
The Stateful-PCE-optional draft is a generic mechanism to mark whole
PCEP objects as mandatory and optional to process. You are right that
it doesn't cover local protection enforcement at the granularity of
the per-attribute in the LSPA object. Please confirm if my
understanding is correct?

Note that there is a single flag defined in the LSPA object so far, so
generalizing would help a future flag when and if it gets added. Could
you suggest what change you would make to turn this procedure generic?

Thanks!
Dhruv

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 6:06 PM Vishnu Pavan Beeram
<vishnupavan@= gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Support adoption! The draft addresses a hole in the existing protectio= n toolkit.
>
> It would however be useful to have a generic way of requesting or mand= ating each LSP/path attribute (similar to RSVP LSP/HOP attributes). I haven= 't read draft-dhody-pce-stateful-pce-optional, but I'm assuming tha= t it doesn't cover local protection enforcement.
>
> Regards,
> -Pavan
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:41 AM Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi WG,
>>
>> This email begins the WG adoption poll for
>> draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02.
>>
>> https:= //datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcemen= t-02
>>
>> Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reas= ons
>> - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? = Are
>> you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be poste= d to
>> the list.
>>
>> This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday).
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Dhruv & Julien
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pce mailing list
>> Pce@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
--000000000000434a6f05b3a62c9a-- From nobody Tue Nov 10 23:35:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D503A0A13 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 23:35:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QZtZI63Lmf6E for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 23:35:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com (mail-pg1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 043083A0A2C for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 23:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id r10so892802pgb.10 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 23:35:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dbyVgS2ZT54OPbemafmdTRth9RHf2BD/9/cv4VEqYD0=; b=s1bW4UKEcoeF2EkkGw/TbvKlh+nZmwjZY5wnLeXKbJf+F+OB7oLCcoGqqsgAJuCfi3 kAs+UfzCQ2T7iaS/zIX6FrHYjdjdziQQUJUZU1mKBanyeJc4H2Mm+eIRjUvDLSBwG+Tz ahXgXgDvbo6u1ujGqWUvTcMsjz6sAMJZl5dymNqkTayhUpsIJxBMmoeJ1mldEKIyBXHQ g13bOwKQtV9jmVyYKJMjVrX83OVBwSEE7wv3Ws0ZVpM6AAE0PujkUMy4FzYCswhbX6m8 P2kBLCUTKE608iDP9DBgQSHwcwSvWfKScANjaASg/pD5z5zwxpv9VeBkQ1HAQmsjcZSv VrXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dbyVgS2ZT54OPbemafmdTRth9RHf2BD/9/cv4VEqYD0=; b=SZHIokKOW0CjvQJ/WYt597W4DRJ0R2bCMlIDfekpPcb8kLmurVCV6p1lKld7ist19e DylFiJ1odWZ5UteT52drSvvhZev/qIbMvvBTgtPcXuDvSQqCjZFSNCQNT2lkyfckrM7M /jtQTd8jFH5KfSrMN4HxxycK3LoMAYOJf1rcBb4X0wOi4GJiXCZ+C85MxF5q1HrlhcYp +1ITLE8af9J3UJwR6xBqrUfuRlbkz91t7mlZuEKl7/enPPdWki1daQ2cCW2vRj28wS42 nsR0ApbLIriUaLVwd47bpqzgGIFBBqnk/w5XQQ6LVstUOLxIIxxr87kLNPXe+eEE3Y9K OuLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531iwPqPI+8FzeCErUIKoGv3wTq7JM1NcweLTV2YubfRPTcnHwGR kEPMbihl1unWUID6H5F2VcthYWN27Z5IUn4CZhQix/NwQqeNsK9N X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSC6fO8eQUQt4IeCsSirXwk1JsQkAMpTSI2yLay0jIl0uOa8oqJXQ9cvobeNE0fs6LE2gaZrCKvuT00Yf+uok= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:908d:0:b029:15f:d774:584 with SMTP id i13-20020aa7908d0000b029015fd7740584mr21169252pfa.6.1605080111347; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 23:35:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 13:04:35 +0530 Message-ID: To: pce@ietf.org Cc: pce-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Feedback to the NomCom X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 07:35:16 -0000 Hi WG, NomCom requires feedback from the community to select the best candidate for the various leadership positions (IETF chair, AD, etc). The feedback could also be regarding any concerns that you may have regarding the functioning of the IETF. You can find a helpful mail from the Nomcom Chair here - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/5al6WVDVMB5QpGTi98nml0Mu9LU/ Please do your civic duty [ :) ] and provide feedback to the Nomcom before Nov 20th at https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/feedback/ or nomcom20@ietf.org. Thanks! PCE Chairs From nobody Wed Nov 11 04:50:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56423A10CB for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:50:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EImL0Vxk2RKP for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com (mail-pf1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 724563A091B for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id y7so1532679pfq.11 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:50:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5765gCe1s5ecXC/N3cp+cdmU/E/M5acBr6nNERBd/W4=; b=fZB0KeWL+TmRU10rAo9brC6XRpsZQoeGjyuMZaNQebpK6LRMN0C9HiP6VQeK6ujmn8 VzkUTooEvNdJF65CIrBKGSaXXxT2dfWDK4qa9RdcKhRBYYpmIH1nLaiUbkkx5EZ6ctDM z0JRd3DF52cNI/H7xZKlHukq0Nuh3syFgROFmNSaOD4xMuK0CahMpnk/qYlQBoqQOxT1 YWqssvPDWx7xHwmxPKg2RbJg+PgkRDhW1Lz8yQnoe7J2D9vRyXQ4aP9z0h8JKzRODcW7 OAMIEkBahOmVacVG/vH9jzKBQObWrCZLVcsaSJ69rxwh1zf7MkW2EQNC12qkHgNuY5vt Nd6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=5765gCe1s5ecXC/N3cp+cdmU/E/M5acBr6nNERBd/W4=; b=nmjLfFR1oV6XYjmGM4h0ZjNOLLBPCqISuEbyg+u0GYh3E9IdjIX9BnCMeXv7Pbfbu3 Hss0vpLjl9G5cbB5HTOWwoywroEs5xgd+70pErjiYgt5cXHxgrGt57/dtcRnCxZzYloM eSYfuBtSAuSGWpzVLbOZ1hyxJJVHCs0yyoPqFfunxBAWX0ErFyRBF1TO+taLBX+8LGH9 BCQNtU9BaDqsvE9OrJRZttkJwrX3RGfbhpFCduOuhjNdqvXlP5HsO3Vz1a+692V8LqTr yzy/KHJ8SyXTmBHsPiLPIJTDGUJ3JuW09Sjq8/swOrC3SbjA2aJkdSNKSbtKPyhiSHae cMdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533U1dkyJjKorp3B4jIj1EhIr0FO4NsfH62W+iY7NKDDG7K8WBLE k8CkcJR+OerVzZcB35+SRvHr6kAoPgMM+8FqJMjKxAk9gyymiQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw45RGauok3jyoQDIxUXeFyUnidgfSY2FELIuNXIqlwdqzO6z0ZIzMLncbZrSkNHzAUMC9DIrlQFLlaneyaCSQ= X-Received: by 2002:a63:6386:: with SMTP id x128mr21331342pgb.148.1605099040193; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:50:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 18:20:04 +0530 Message-ID: To: pce@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Fwd: [**EXTERNAL**] [IMPORTANT] Re: IPR Poll on draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 12:50:43 -0000 Forwarding the IPR response to the WG List... ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Sivabalan, Siva Date: Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 6:18 PM Subject: RE: [**EXTERNAL**] [IMPORTANT] Re: [Pce] IPR Poll on draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02 To: Dhruv Dhody Cc: pce-chairs , draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement@ietf.org WG Chairs: (sorry for the delay) I am not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft. Thanks, Siva > On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 1:11 AM Hariharan Ananthakrishnan wrote: >> >> Hi Authors, >> >> In preparation for WG adoption on this draft, I'd like all authors >> and contributors to confirm on the list that they are in compliance >> with IETF IPR rules. >> >> Please respond (copying the mailing list) to say one of: >> >> I am not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft that should be >> disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules. >> >> I am aware of the IPR applicable to this draft, and it has already >> been disclosed to the IETF. >> >> I am aware of IPR applicable to this draft, but that has not yet been >> disclosed to the IETF. I will work to ensure that it will be >> disclosed in a timely manner. >> >> Thanks, >> - Hari >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pce mailing list >> Pce@ietf.org >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce >> __;!!OSsGDw!Zjm0lNWB8wQ2Zw0EQvdWOYS31Q_PkWYkXLNOoVWjLznpKPVFw7p5BXzw6 >> xWWSQ$ From nobody Wed Nov 11 04:55:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC493A10CE for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:55:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xL_kyXW4X-sr for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E9D03A10CF for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id z24so1413219pgk.3 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:55:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v6t1n0w6GNZ69sr711Q0/22t6TnrRyajnf8anrrPD04=; b=WlFjuquPJs0mV7g7Nts1SF/BVxSBwskG5AzgOphnKn76kCKmrRw0ZZkfYklNf4zk7q MsFTjpvL59UCx9bn6E9nlQPm2TjpMWIcJXmOYlAUrqiNEZOph15AkkCQhvy0pRG+nam5 ej8wD7uiD5qsekhTEVOd8lDbpaaA/zCjyj26ZdFZZWNCZKN0PPSlhiNIf+IApgHVrZK0 1v3EjaO/bkHR+ggzA9rAN4u2p7aVVTElfTmdJs8GN9HrmKtA5MSfJsoCmoKpqw+xkyrj bTBtDMkH203YQ7KnAu84bDbRkW2RiJl4V5314NBSFAwvMKQE9v7ehSUIGlW/7WYp3RJd XcfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v6t1n0w6GNZ69sr711Q0/22t6TnrRyajnf8anrrPD04=; b=Gm6w0h1NWZ3NL01TXVWh25D7uMsPpk/WJyJ+Dwn2iUBfW91iI2vCZOBwLswxeqlDe5 CmG5zyIHbYMhPhtumo01MKhh+WWIt0DF2h7ZWmDp3glA7I12hHagAfI8fvFBq85Rvi54 wtcYkRLz28zPiBVxA+8N1ZkXVY/gLxkOExJjAQ2wgaf4/P+NvB381+kIi4MogqmDes0o j8GuTfbK9xJBpjA1HZP9+ByVObCjOKnw21Bb2aVABSFO+jrxR4fSZFKieTk2LLR0C8nw vbkUIs3Xpe1CJLj7zZj8YgRUqBrTLdxJAxl4ILUNbH7nZ+24s4EeZROXBwbAATIeUlHr pAsg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532cr67hAxg3678MVcfvgw1NcO8Axuj8C6Tguc2qMcQ2laS4xYgR i02IlWLadq7vZUn3pLLG3NIkesJUPuS+skRHrRkTvKXCakPOAMYh X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSgBC0BUPzA63ozoD4lVxrWSARUDPRjGubahyPZFL0nMfwPlxQGBsg12bsY00XqugvWI4M217dhgJhmQdMmYA= X-Received: by 2002:a65:47ca:: with SMTP id f10mr20600184pgs.298.1605099334473; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:55:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 18:24:58 +0530 Message-ID: To: pce@ietf.org Cc: draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement@ietf.org, Vishnu Pavan Beeram , pce-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] WG adoption poll for draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 12:55:36 -0000 Hi WG, The WG adoption poll is closed, the response was less than what we would have liked. The responses were all supportive without any objections. All authors have responded to the IPR check. We can adopt it as a WG document. There is a suggestion on the table to make things generic from Pavan, we request authors to discuss this with Pavan (preferably on the list). Hi Authors, Please post 'draft-ietf-pce-local-protection-enforcement-00' when the submission is allowed again with no other change. Thanks! Dhruv & Julien On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 7:10 PM Dhruv Dhody wrote: > > Hi WG, > > This email begins the WG adoption poll for > draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-stone-pce-local-protection-enforcement-02 > > Should this draft be adopted by the PCE WG? Please state your reasons > - Why / Why not? What needs to be fixed before or after adoption? Are > you willing to work on this draft? Review comments should be posted to > the list. > > This adoption poll will end on 9th Nov 2020 (Monday). > > Thanks! > Dhruv & Julien From nobody Fri Nov 13 22:18:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B62863A11F4; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 22:18:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ON55ZWjKgOvn; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 22:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 14:17:54 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller@ietf.org" CC: "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-07 Thread-Index: AQHWp7mkuYRvlxvZmk+x/bLeqmGUWanHRfUw Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 06:17:54 +0000 Message-ID: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE1959F63F@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <18503_1603291852_5F904ACC_18503_14_1_407c1462-2b2e-98ad-dd31-3b6d35d0d247@orange.com> In-Reply-To: <18503_1603291852_5F904ACC_18503_14_1_407c1462-2b2e-98ad-dd31-3b6d35d0d247@orange.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.215.164] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-07 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 06:18:12 -0000 SGkgSnVsaWVuLA0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMuIFdlIGhhdmUgaGFuZGxl ZCB0aGUgc2hlcGhlcmQgcmV2aWV3IGFuZCBhbiB1cGRhdGUgaXMgcG9zdGVkLiBQbGVhc2UgZmlu ZCB0aGUgZGlmZiBhbmQgcmVzcG9uc2VzIGlubGluZS4gVGhhbmsgeW91IQ0KDQpodHRwczovL2Rh dGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLXBjZS1wY2VwLWV4dGVuc2lvbi1mb3It cGNlLWNvbnRyb2xsZXIvDQphbmQgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvcmZjZGlmZj91cmwxPWRy YWZ0LWlldGYtcGNlLXBjZXAtZXh0ZW5zaW9uLWZvci1wY2UtY29udHJvbGxlci0wNyZ1cmwyPWRy YWZ0LWlldGYtcGNlLXBjZXAtZXh0ZW5zaW9uLWZvci1wY2UtY29udHJvbGxlci0wOA0KDQpCZXN0 IHJlZ2FyZHMsIA0KU2h1cGluZyANCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBG cm9tOiBqdWxpZW4ubWV1cmljQG9yYW5nZS5jb20gW21haWx0bzpqdWxpZW4ubWV1cmljQG9yYW5n 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(8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0AFC4f3f006034; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:04:41 GMT Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE6122048; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:04:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.249]) by vs2.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499B922044; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:04:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([87.112.234.140]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0AFC4dpW024142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:04:39 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Gyan Mishra'" Cc: "'TEAS WG'" , , "'IDR List'" , "'lsr'" , "'BESS'" , "'BIER WG'" , "'SPRING WG'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:04:38 -0000 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <00d501d6bb47$7ee160a0$7ca421e0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D6BB47.7EE27210" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQF9YbXHIOSWBk8yeY9fu/naMBX0B6p7sJrg Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 87.112.234.140 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-25790.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--14.922-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--14.922-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-25790.007 X-TMASE-Result: 10--14.921600-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: jFqw+1pFnMyx4Q5iE/G4VXFPUrVDm6jtrkGhd90/DD6ysPB8dBBorQkt GlyfnEqw/hPqYBjXRvrPRQhYb82CUWsWrPYGNN4DW4uRcqTgBLkDxXNNkwM2slY9yet6QEd8gXF 85i45Zx5Tycok6DUSPnBV0D37nd4oZb4YJkoMChswiJTf3kjwfauRJbBnR9QZE4klva9z5JyCdz yKMpTh4n0GH8UPE5XGeeOhgmVGz4sS887lpka72zCj6xe3SuezzwGOnesXThUDE8ggmrXnNIE/v INhyffjbALKww3fgKQ+IJsxz6/MG3PH+Ely1RppPE3khmVvHO5rakICcm9AUWNDqjXOO0YeCPIv P3uOlZdZMihSZb4ZQBFBD6+ejtliafdXgMs+pqB2GcWKGZufBQ4m7nrLKGA2JHwDAsNOgHhYXKg fzjvaWW342qvQHtJUfzzZvLDv3Oa2F9mW29B7siT9vTe4FHdQh8Ytn75ClDNhlbn6/nmOL9SE+o oSMqbWa2yjxi6DegzSPy86eVaxBAZzDl2stMKuzLo88rvlvYHR/CLTQxTQNLKeTtOdjMy6Y02UY ybf3M77zimhwE/anR6mA7svqvZCjlwExZ+3TSZfYa9W9OjitdZvZ5Gv+ByDw62uSG5kL1aNLo7J HtqcJUMJm1dGoan80AAsttmoS5lQdboikf/uEGwTEruL9ObTIfyQNHR2naZd9fDYSm945TdZExW GZtg3vRozbZIuTOAuNvTj5Xfp1u3FFtXLEvOmwP5c8K0bHlchjEPz8ZIh1hlLPW+8b7SaCSqvzM Gx6vFvy64TFAGuDliSlwChW1m5XC8g0bRla6SeAiCmPx4NwGmRqNBHmBve1B0Hk1Q1KyJck9lvx NcntWLHjeGkjh9XKzfM9B6IRt7+efAnnZBiL0OAfBu/XeE86LVkcqC+5HQYK8bS5pq70eGEvXqw fEwp6gc/7grXMri0yp4Dr5imaJLC9paZso429IKhPJLZpaVAdYFEV4Px7Pv1leB13UrM X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:04:51 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D6BB47.7EE27210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gyan, =20 Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to = a lot of lists :-). =20 > I have noticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it = seems in the > industry that the lines seem to be blurred between a PCE controller, = ODL or > Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP & Day X > provisioning. =20 Yes, blurriness our speciality. =20 You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little = dated. And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point. =20 > As this is a software sitting on a server you can have a swiss army = knife server that > does everything from PCE path computation to Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N = > provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controller = type > functions as well. =20 Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be = converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I = pontificated on this way back in 2014 at = http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf =20 > How this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is = the use of > BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of the network which was = designed > for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off line path computation for = both > RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation. =20 =20 In some senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could = have snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and = importantly adds to that some policy filters to determine what is = exported thus giving the network some control over what is exported. =20 FWIW, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/ = proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that = a PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as = well. The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and = that it will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports = BGP. =20 > However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions now such as = usage as > I am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use = BGP-LS to > gather the elements internals within BIER using the same BGP-LS data = structures > to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER topology. = So here > we are not doing any path computations as we are using in this use = case for > NMS type function to gather data for ZTP & Day N provisioning. >=20 > Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and = being able > to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource = information > and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like = controller style > provisioning.=20 =20 Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and = path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all = determining how to configure the network to best carry traffic. =20 > It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of "data gathering" "dump = truck" > of anything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of = topological graph > of literally anything under the sun. =20 Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to transport = Shakespeare.=20 This is a tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets = added, further use gets made. =20 BGP-LS was intended to export routing information = =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from the network. =20 > I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of = NMS Netconf/Yang > Controller based functionality and PCE path computation functionality = and SDN > controller based ZTP functionality into a single ubiquitous server = that can do all of > the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the "kitchen sink" tasks. It = does however > transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a "tool" and not just the original = function > which it was intended NLRI network reachability. =20 Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS = tool=E2=80=9D. I might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is = an NMS protocol. =20 > Am I off base and please let me know as its BGP-LS is being way over = leveraged.=20 > There are pros & cons to everything but I thought I would bring up to = the WG as > an important discussion point. =20 Who are we to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a = push for implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is = =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow = confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it use a different = code point to be distinguishable? =20 I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for = doing this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that = it doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do something they = don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol message = using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over = Netconf=E2=80=9D. =20 Best, Adrian =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D6BB47.7EE27210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Gyan,

 

Sorry, I = missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to a lot of = lists :-).

 

> I have noticed that after reviewing many = drafts across many WGs it seems in the

> industry that the lines seem to be blurred = between a PCE controller, ODL or

> = Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP & Day = X

> provisioning.

 

Yes, = blurriness our speciality.

 

You my find = RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little dated. And, of = course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.

 

> As this is a software sitting on a server you can = have a swiss army knife server that

> does everything from PCE path computation = to  Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N

> provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or = Openflow controller type

> = functions as well.

 

Yes, and = this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be converted = from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificated on this = way back in 2014 at = http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf

 

> How this comes into play and realization of the = lines being blurred is the use of

> BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of = the network which was designed

> = for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off line path = computation for both

> RSVP-TE or = SR-TE path instantiation.  

 

In some = senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could have = snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and = importantly adds to that some policy filters to determine what is = exported thus giving the network some control over what is = exported.

 

FWIW, htt= ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/ proposes = using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that a PCE = has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as well. = The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and that it = will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports = BGP.

 

> However now BGP-LS can also be used for other = functions now such as usage as

> I = am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use BGP-LS = to

> gather the elements internals = within BIER using the same BGP-LS data structures

> to populate with BIER specific information to = graph the BIER topology.  So here

> we are not doing any path computations as we are = using in this use case  for

> = NMS type function to gather data for ZTP & Day N = provisioning.

> 

> Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS = TS-Transport slice and being able

> to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN = RT & resource information

> = and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like = controller style

> = provisioning. 

 

Is there a = fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and path = computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all = determining how to configure the network to best carry = traffic.

 

> It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of = "data gathering" "dump truck"

> of anything with the kitchen sink included to = build any type of topological graph

> of literally anything under the = sun.

 

Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to = transport Shakespeare.

This is a = tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets added, = further use gets made.

 

BGP-LS was = intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from = the network.

 

> I see that is a nice to leverage but it does = in fact blur the lines of NMS Netconf/Yang

> Controller based functionality and  PCE path = computation functionality and SDN

> controller based ZTP functionality into a single = ubiquitous server that can do all of

> the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the = "kitchen sink" tasks.  It does however

> transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a = "tool" and not just the original function

> which it was intended NLRI network = reachability.

 

Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS = is =E2=80=9Can NMS tool=E2=80=9D.

I = might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is = an NMS protocol.

 

> Am I off base and please let me know as its = BGP-LS is being way over leveraged. 

> There are pros & cons to everything but I = thought I would bring up to the WG as

> an important discussion point.

 

Who are we = to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a push for = implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is = =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow = confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it use a different = code point to be distinguishable?

 

I think the = argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for doing = this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that it = doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do something they = don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol message = using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over = Netconf=E2=80=9D.

 

Best,

Adrian

 

------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D6BB47.7EE27210-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 00:29:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AA33A1595; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 00:29:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.22.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <160551535424.9880.9231486012073846632@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 00:29:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-local-protection-enforcement-00.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:29:14 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : Local Protection Enforcement in PCEP Authors : Andrew Stone Mustapha Aissaoui Samuel Sidor Siva Sivabalan Filename : draft-ietf-pce-local-protection-enforcement-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2020-11-16 Abstract: This document updates [RFC5440] to clarify usage of the local protection desired bit signalled in Path Computation Element Protocol (PCEP). This document also introduces a new flag for signalling protection strictness in PCEP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-local-protection-enforcement/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-local-protection-enforcement-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-local-protection-enforcement-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 18 07:12:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D745F3A0AC5; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:12:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7QMSMgn1p_gp; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF4843A0AC4; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CbmX22xCdz7tnp; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:12:50 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1605712370; bh=Ne252i1K+f/DdDxFQ+Be6Jz0ZMlHm0GNXBu15ZdTyf8=; h=From:Subject:To:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=MCLiDwbmPM59j9V40BYW6xIc10nn0Dg9ZBofULpu0QJEMWeOq8NwbJG7v+Mt9NLSy 115MEkV71e7FwkDxaRlrxwbh1in80w1JwigVNvcEGQQn1EshfONo+rdAylNiN5PeiE nDXgtv3wEsoRDPC7hM+uidFcY+689cjw+rhf8jbWMiizJZCkf4yw/gNheajnpSuOLY tcJjFCanWkBSVDiMR2QsEk3jPotZbJwQzdTykgejIEVC4QK9F8hQHVJJQGbwX9sApg odNHrTNBGyhnhWyn4GwRSdRQnUMkgcPOBkLnXQq0+Domow5WA+q1/IZAe8/8soiLcl R3CPMqHgyLoAQ== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.98]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CbmX21vk4z3wbg; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:12:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.192.150.201] (10.114.13.247) by exchange-eme6.itn.ftgroup (10.114.13.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:12:49 +0100 From: To: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" , "draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller@ietf.org" CC: "pce@ietf.org" References: <18503_1603291852_5F904ACC_18503_14_1_407c1462-2b2e-98ad-dd31-3b6d35d0d247@orange.com> <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE1959F63F@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> Organization: Orange Message-ID: <1b07a063-ae5d-1841-cad5-fbfd883f0dc0@orange.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:12:42 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE1959F63F@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000400010301050405080608" X-Originating-IP: [10.114.13.247] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Shepherd's Review of draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-07 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 15:12:55 -0000 --------------ms000400010301050405080608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi Shuping, Thanks for the update. Please see [JM] below. Cheers, Julien On 14/11/2020 07:17, Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) wrote: > Hi Julien, > > Thank you for your comments. We have handled the shepherd review and an= update is posted. Please find the diff and responses inline. Thank you! > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-= controller/ > and https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-f= or-pce-controller-07&url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-control= ler-08 > > Best regards,=20 > Shuping=20 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: julien.meuric@orange.com [mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 10:51 PM >> >> Hi authors of draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller, >> >> Please find below my review of the aforementioned I-D. >> >> Regards, >> >> Julien >> >> --- >> >> *Main Concerns* >> >> - From a PCECC operation stand point, it feels odd that what is referr= ed to as >> "basic PCECC LSP setup" is actually PCC triggered, whereas the PCE-ini= tiatied >> option does exist as well. Even though it adds an additional PCInitiat= e >> message, I would suggest to define the latter as the "basic setup", wh= ich >> would not only address that comment, but would also mitigate the follo= wing >> concerns on PCC-triggered setup. >> - I have 2 issues with PCC-triggered setup: >> =C2=A0 * it adds LSP characteristics and egress-related information in= the ingress >> PCC, which is not straightforward in a PCECC context (certainly not fo= r a >> "base setup"); >> =C2=A0 * the behavior triggered by the initial PCRpt is implementation= -specific in >> the PCE: as per section 5.8.3 of RFC 8231, I could configure my PCE to= just >> store the reported info, or make it wait for whatever event before act= ually >> starting something ("PCE *decides* to update the LSP", "the PCE *can* >> modify LSP parameters of delegated LSPs"). >> =C2=A0 =3D> Assuming the PCC-triggerred option is really needed, this = limitation >> should be more explicit. > The order has been changed and the text is added to say that in case of= PST=3DPCECC it SHOULD calculate and set up the path based on the PCECC t= echnique. [JM] Thank you for the changes. I believe both of them do improve the I-D= =2E >> - At the end of section 6.1, some errors are defined with respect to t= he >> number of CCI objects in a message. If the ingress PCE has a particula= r role >> (e.g. PLSP-ID allocation), how do other PCCs know if they are transit = or >> egress to be able to check the number of CCIs they get? >> AFAIU, at 1st setup, only inconsistencies between the O bit and the nu= mber >> of CCIs can trigger an error; on LSP updates the node may add an addit= ional >> check with respect to its role before the update: those situations nee= d to be >> clarified. > The source and destination are part of the LSP-IDENTIFIERS TLV, that ca= n help identify Ingress, egress and Transit. The text has been added for = that. [JM] Fine, thanks. >> - There is no reference to RFC 8741. Is it applicable? If so, then how= ? > Added. [JM] OK, fine. >> *Nits* >> - Figure 1: all figures have the same message ordering, though the ord= er only >> matters when using PCC-allocated labels (leaving initial and last mess= ages >> apart); have you considered shuffling the message order a bit on figur= es for >> PCE-allocated cases? > It's true from the point of view of the messages on wire and thus we do= n't put this in the specification, but internally the PCE would still all= ocate label from the internal space from Egress towards Ingress as it wou= ld need to make sure the in-label and out-label matches and processing wo= uld be in the same order. Thus it is better to keep the ordering the same= ! [JM] This looks implementation specific to me. I don't see anything precluding pushing multiple CCIs in parallel, relying on crankback by updating both ends of a link in case of initial allocation issue. I agree on one thing: shuffling the figure may not be worth the effort. [JM] By the way, some of the arrows on the figures deserve to be polished= : =C2=A0 * end point alignment, space vs. dash... =C2=A0 * spacing after comas are inconsistent (no space seem to be readab= le). >> ------ >> Section 12. >> --- >> - The following references may be moved from Normative to Informative:= >> =C2=A0 * RFC 7420, >> =C2=A0 * RFC 7225, >> =C2=A0 * RFC 8126, >> =C2=A0 * RFC 8174, >> =C2=A0 * RFC 8233. >> > Moved RFC 7420, RFC 7525. > RFC 8126, RFC 8174 are kept as Normative as per recently published RFCs= =2E > RFC 8233 is a wrong reference, it should be RFC 8232 (and moved to info= rmational). [JM] Fine for 8174. RFC 8126 is targeted to document authors, it isn't mandatory reading for readers/implementers. 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X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR02MB4557 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Follow up on Jeff's Comment on draft-li-pce-pcep-pmtu-03 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 03:27:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_50bd5698-6570-49a9-93a0-af6a9ff8e5c8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM0PR02MB3681179B254616BDB12EDA8DDBFF0AM0PR02MB3681eurp_" --_000_AM0PR02MB3681179B254616BDB12EDA8DDBFF0AM0PR02MB3681eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeff, The feedback below is following your question at the IETF 109 m= eeting on the consideration of MSD in the draft draft-li-pce-pcep-pmtu-03 The definitions of the MSD and the PMTU are as follows, MSD: Maximum SID Depth - the number of SIDs supported by a node or a link o= n a node. Path MTU: The minimum link MTU of all the links in a path between a source = node and a destination node. So MSD is to determine the number of SIDs to be imposed, while MTU can be u= sed by the ingress to determine whether IP fragmentation is needed. The MSD= and Path MTU represent different capabilities. In this draft, we focus on = the PMTU. =E2=80=8BWarm regards, Luc-Fabrice Ndifor Specialist - IP Access and Data center Luc-Fabrice.Ndifor@mtn.com T +237 677 55 02 13 Head Office: 360, Rue Drouot =E2=80=8BP.O. Box 15 574 Douala, Cameroon T +237 679 00 90 90 | mtn.cm This email is confidential. If you have received it in error, you are on no= tice of its status. Please notify =E2=80=8Bthe =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bsender imm= ediately by =E2=80=8Breply email and then delete this message from your system. Please = do not copy it =E2=80=8Bor use it for any purpose or disclose its content =E2=80=8Bto any other person as to do so could be a breach of =E2=80=8Bconf= identiality. =E2=80=8B Please be informed that no employee or agent is authorized to conclude any= legally binding agreement =E2=80=8Bon behalf of MTN Cameroon =E2=80=8Bvia email. This can be only done if the email is confirmed explici= tly in writing =E2=80=8Bby an MTN Cameroon authorized officer. In no event =E2=80=8Bwill this email or its content be construed as a written =E2=80= =8Bapproval. --_000_AM0PR02MB3681179B254616BDB12EDA8DDBFF0AM0PR02MB3681eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jeff,

        &nb= sp;   The feedback below is following your question at the IETF 1= 09 meeting on the consideration of MSD in the draft draft-li-pce-pcep-pmtu-03

 

The definitions of the MSD and the PMTU are as foll= ows,

MSD: Maximum SID Depth - the number of SIDs supported by a node or a link o= n a node.
Path MTU: The minimum link MTU of all the links in a path between a source = node and a destination node.

So MSD is to determine the number of SIDs to be imposed, while MTU can be u= sed by the ingress to determine whether IP fragmentation is needed. The MSD= and Path MTU represent different capabilities. In this draft, we focus on = the PMTU.

 

=
= 3D""
​Warm regards,​
Luc=E2=80=91Fabrice
 
Ndifor
Specialist =E2=80=91 IP Access and Data&nb= sp;center
Luc-Fabrice.Ndifor@mtn.com
T +237&nb= sp;677 55 02 13
Head = ;Office: 360, Rue Drouot
​P.O. Box 15&n= bsp;574 Douala, Cameroon
<= tr style=3D"font-size:9.33px;">
T +237 679 00 90 90
 | 
mtn.cm
=
This email is con= fidential. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its statu= s. Please notify ​the ​​sender immediately by
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​
Pl= ease be informed that no employee or agent is authorized to conclude any le= gally binding agreement ​on behalf of MTN Cameroon
​via em= ail. This can be only done if the email is confirmed explicitly in writing&= nbsp;​by an MTN Cameroon authorized officer. In no event
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3D""
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-0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HVqPPl4GuzSQxU7gwyD0TqLs2eYORVqviHayiFj0arY=; b=ZvFfHichZ+LAoNwtkXuT2vfjPEHWZPHCosuDJyXeQZQZP0g5dNRxQnCmK4bU5pcQIy +N7aM10+5a6mBIpWgPaNhL8pfyQgIxiG3yNQF/Pv3uwaubEFR+br+DKO5Bjt6nWkpFcG 0IwWfZ/vxuIBvujmwHWam0md2zy8yPAOvEMbubqn77V+ExyoH4U6VA0vVcnNBcVFexcE dttpjp4z9EhOMX5YbL93tArm+7KxB+nCUc4O3yYrXaaT3mqLGG9899zDW3sOfwXSt1/N u6xIxoPkcuN0VCcj2RiUmFsgB1I4ulmeDv7IV4KeAiJMwUj60xq6/0DbqiyqZeCLlDR1 KhFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HVqPPl4GuzSQxU7gwyD0TqLs2eYORVqviHayiFj0arY=; b=gtLzEDwYJdrwVY8S9MSdaTNxONzrdstxkAle9pCvp+vXvhNlh6JWQ+TbgmFPyXem0E vBBS+ACs13i1YmZfBoEnfJW9SKUFbw7Wqx6P1SvO1ABb/V2g0293gQ1PWYqJaOqP3+DG 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Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:10:47 -0000 --00000000000003c42c05b490476d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adrian, In line Kind Regards Gyan On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 7:04 AM Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi Gyan, > > > > Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to = a > lot of lists :-). > > > > > I have noticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it seem= s > in the > > > industry that the lines seem to be blurred between a PCE controller, OD= L > or > > > Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP & Day X > > > provisioning. > > > > Yes, blurriness our speciality. > > Gyan> :) > > You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little > dated. And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point. > > Gyan> Thanks > > As this is a software sitting on a server you can have a swiss army knife > server that > > > does everything from PCE path computation to Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N > > > provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controller > type > > > functions as well. > > > > Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be > converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificated > on this way back in 2014 at http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf > > Gyan> My sentiments exactly - With that power at your fingertips comes > responsibility. > > How this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is > the use of > > > BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of the network which was > designed > > > for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off line path computation for > both > > > RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation. > > > > In some senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could ha= ve > snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and important= ly > adds to that some policy filters to determine what is exported thus givin= g > the network some control over what is exported. > > Gyan> Agreed > > FWIW, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/ > proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that = a > PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as wel= l. > The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and that it > will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports BGP. > > Gyan> Makes sense and in some ways cuts out the middle man BGP-LS > overloading burden on BGP. Great idea. I like it. Another very valuabl= e > tool in the operators toolbox. > > > However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions now such as > usage as > > > I am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use > BGP-LS to > > > gather the elements internals within BIER using the same BGP-LS data > structures > > > to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER topology. > So here > > > we are not doing any path computations as we are using in this use case > for > > > NMS type function to gather data for ZTP & Day N provisioning. > > > > > > Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and bein= g > able > > > to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource > information > > > and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like > controller style > > > provisioning. > > > > Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and > path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all d= etermining > how to configure the network to best carry traffic. > > > Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - control plane TEDs and forwarding plane routing action path computation and instantiation of path action as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configuration snippet push function not routing or TE related. > > It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of "data gathering" "dump > truck" > > > of anything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of > topological graph > > > of literally anything under the sun. > > > > Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to transport > Shakespeare. > > This is a tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets > added, further use gets made. > > Gyan> Understood > > BGP-LS was intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2= =80=9D from the > network. > > Gyan> Understood > > > I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of > NMS Netconf/Yang > > > Controller based functionality and PCE path computation functionality > and SDN > > > controller based ZTP functionality into a single ubiquitous server that > can do all of > > > the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the "kitchen sink" tasks. It > does however > > > transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a "tool" and not just the original > function > > > which it was intended NLRI network reachability. > > > > Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS t= ool=E2=80=9D. > > I might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is > an NMS protocol. > > Gyan> Agreed. One way to look at it is that as BGP primary function is > routing, however there many code points that are not necessarily routing > related , and BGP provides the ability to have each code point or SAFI or > parameters as a discrete container - to be enabled as desired, however wi= th > that flexibility not all containers have to be used by the operator. So > the operator can custom tailor what SAFI, codepoint or parameters are > required for the implementation per design requirements and only enable > those that are necessary. So that would of course be the case for BGP-LS= . > So in that case BGP can be utilized for routing or as an NMS tool extendi= ng > Netconf/Yang via BGP-LS or any other function that requires import of dat= a > structures. And that=E2=80=99s Ok. > > Am I off base and please let me know as its BGP-LS is being way over > leveraged. > > > There are pros & cons to everything but I thought I would bring up to > the WG as > > > an important discussion point. > > > > Who are we to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a > push for implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is > =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow confusion= , risk > destabilising the network? Should it use a different code point to be > distinguishable? > > Gyan> Completely agree. I agree negative impact if any exist. See my > comments above. As BGP has the ability to compartmentalize SAFI, > codepoints and parameters into containers to be used discretely for > specific use cases tailored to the operators need. So it may feel that we > are throwing the kitchen sink at BGP and as that may not have been the > intention way back but as BGP is customizable BGP can truly be a ubiquito= us > tool in the operators toolbox. > > I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for = doing > this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that it doesn= =E2=80=99t get us > stuck, or force everyone to do something they don=E2=80=99t want to do. A= fter all, > we could carry any protocol message using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80= =99t do > =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over Netconf=E2=80=9D. > Gyan> Agreed Many thanks for your feedback! > > > Best, > > Adrian > > > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --00000000000003c42c05b490476d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Adrian,

In line=C2=A0

Kind Regards=C2=A0

Gyan
On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 7:04 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
=

Hi Gyan,

=C2=A0

Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to a= lot of lists :-).

= =C2=A0

> I have no= ticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it seems in the

> industry that the lines seem to be= blurred between a PCE controller, ODL or

> Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP &= amp; Day X

> provisioning.

=C2=A0

Yes, blurriness our speciality.

=C2=A0Gyan> :)

= You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little dated.= And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.

=C2=A0Gyan> Thanks=C2=A0

<= /div>

<= u>

> As this is a software sitt= ing on a server you can have a swiss army knife server that

> does everything from PCE path computation to= =C2=A0 Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N

> provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controlle= r type

> functions as well.

=C2=A0

Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it = be converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificate= d on this way back in 2014 at http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf<= u>

=C2=A0Gyan> = My sentiments exactly - With that power at your fingertips comes responsibi= lity. =C2=A0

> How= this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is the use= of

> BGP-LS in building the IGP= topological graph of the network which was designed

> for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off = line path computation for both

>= RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In some sense= s, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could have snooped on t= he IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and importantly adds to tha= t some policy filters to determine what is exported thus giving the network= some control over what is exported.

=C2=A0Gyan> Agreed=C2=A0

FWIW, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodyl= ee-pce-pcep-ls/ proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument= in favor is that a PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include th= e LS export as well. The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicab= ility and that it will typically be exported from an ASBR which already sup= ports BGP.

=C2= =A0Gyan> Makes sense and in some ways cuts out the middle man BGP-LS ove= rloading burden on BGP.=C2=A0 Great idea.=C2=A0 I like it.=C2=A0 Another ve= ry valuable tool in the operators toolbox.

> However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions no= w such as usage as

> I am a Shep= herd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use BGP-LS to=

> gather the elements internals within BI= ER using the same BGP-LS data structures

> to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER top= ology.=C2=A0 So here

> we are no= t doing any path computations as we are using in this use case=C2=A0 for=

> NMS type function to gather data= for ZTP & Day N provisioning.

>=C2=A0

&g= t; Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and being= able

> to provision TS and capt= uring the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource information

> and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gatheri= ng & ZTP like controller style

= > provisioning.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Is there a fundamental diff= erence between ZTP & Day N provisioning and path computation for traffi= c engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all determining how to configure t= he network to best carry traffic.

<= u>=C2=A0

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - cont= rol plane TEDs and forwarding plane routing action path computation and ins= tantiation of path action as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configurati= on snippet push function not routing or TE related.
=

&g= t; It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of "data gathering&quo= t; "dump truck"

> of a= nything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of topological gra= ph

> of literally anything under= the sun.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to= transport Shakespeare.

This is a = tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets added, furthe= r use gets made.

=C2=A0Gyan> Understood=C2=A0

BGP-LS w= as intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from= the network.

= =C2=A0Gyan> Understood=C2=A0

>=C2=A0= I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of NMS = Netconf/Yang

> Controller based = functionality and=C2=A0 PCE path computation functionality and SDN

> controller based ZTP functionality int= o a single ubiquitous server that can do all of

> the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the "kitche= n sink" tasks.=C2=A0 It does however

> transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a "tool" and not = just the original function

> whi= ch it was intended NLRI network reachability.

=C2=A0

Not sure that BGP= -LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS tool=E2=80=9D.

I might argue that BGP distributing poli= cies from installation on PEs is an NMS protocol.

=C2=A0Gyan> Agreed.= =C2=A0 One way to look at it is that as BGP primary function is routing, ho= wever there many code points that are not necessarily routing related , and= BGP provides the ability to have each code point or SAFI or parameters as = a discrete container - to be enabled as desired, however with that flexibil= ity not all containers have to be used by the operator.=C2=A0 So the operat= or can custom tailor what SAFI, codepoint or parameters are required for th= e implementation per design requirements and only enable those that are nec= essary.=C2=A0 So that would of course be the case for BGP-LS.=C2=A0 So in t= hat case BGP can be utilized for routing or as an NMS tool extending Netcon= f/Yang via BGP-LS or any other function that requires import of data struct= ures. =C2=A0 And that=E2=80=99s Ok.=C2=A0

=

> Am I off base and please let me know a= s its BGP-LS is being way over leveraged.=C2=A0

> There are pros & cons to everything but I thought I= would bring up to the WG as

> a= n important discussion point.

=C2=A0

Who are we to argue with real imp= lementations? Assuming that there is a push for implementation and deployme= nt, then the thing to look for is =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of = BGP-LS cause harm, sow confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it= use a different code point to be distinguishable?

Gyan> Completely agree.=C2=A0 I agre= e negative impact if any exist.=C2=A0 See my comments above.=C2=A0 As BGP h= as the ability to compartmentalize SAFI, codepoints and parameters into con= tainers to be used discretely for specific use cases tailored to the operat= ors need. So it may feel that we are throwing the kitchen sink at BGP and a= s that may not have been the intention way back but as BGP is customizable = BGP can truly be a ubiquitous tool in the operators toolbox.

I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already anot= her protocol for doing this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be = careful that it doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do somet= hing they don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol = message using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over N= etconf=E2=80=9D.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan> Agreed

Many thanks for your feedback!
=
=

=C2=A0

Best,

Adrian

=C2=A0

<= /div>
--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

<= i>M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0=
Silver Spring, MD


=
--00000000000003c42c05b490476d-- From nobody Sat Nov 21 07:47:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EE063A0DED; Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:47:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7a_VHaktI76Q; Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta7.iomartmail.com (mta7.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9599A3A0E33; Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (vs3.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.124]) by mta7.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0ALFkssH025045; Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:46:55 GMT Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2BF62203A; Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:46:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.249]) by vs3.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD19722032; Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:46:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([195.166.134.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 0ALFkroZ020064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:46:54 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Gyan Mishra'" Cc: "'BESS'" , "'BIER WG'" , "'IDR List'" , "'SPRING WG'" , "'TEAS WG'" , "'lsr'" , References: <00d501d6bb47$7ee160a0$7ca421e0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:46:53 -0000 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <039401d6c01d$893ded90$9bb9c8b0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0395_01D6C01D.893E62C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQF9YbXHIOSWBk8yeY9fu/naMBX0BwJnuPwTAbmwFjqqZGg3wA== Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 195.166.134.90 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-25804.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--19.728-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--19.728-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-25804.001 X-TMASE-Result: 10--19.728200-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: TmlY9+XBoTmx4Q5iE/G4VXFPUrVDm6jth4A8KRmrGe2qvcIF1TcLYEwi cw3eWSo0YLQ3+9wW9SYaHpAEsECl+h0HHInBeaK9JOMhINYq80wHgh3sKJBzP8pj/9aYiP+h3SZ uwROk0qHmLM5grIF7CSLuZAk1qAxOehY/DCk+INGecgASc+pqBczdhaN37iAM5lhx0mBJyPEcUn IIyt02Sa9sD66wAjsxf6x5zoWNtEgpNfI+R65HNc50DGuIExk9fiA7Y+GFqDOsaBVGMabQl+//v bMLiEkVS23jFwoI7b1+1uW3cIJ1vBWVVkGuW6Jr3zSg/bkXzGmOz/LLJUcaHsmqrXFLFjsW6aX8 TYIrj1uFZCZln65Hjpt6E4YKOIuohfUatHkEWNT4Wr1WT+bU2pkShYcLpGH9dPj9LUBj/ks8Pun 5tcXDXI0id0pIhqxT48CdlKt5w6+7Cjv/4LgPYmhQCsqhuTNihlL5/PVMMhK+vSKPcZwFluCfwd Xr9Uztu7C4hieFwVKAMuqetGVettLvsKjhs0lda9+JVKonO7eLZAVphLW/bXkguuQorcgMg5IQ3 dbS17M+Pal/bipFlwhigbA7cP7I6E96vWKSeR9+3BndfXUhXQ== X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:47:06 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0395_01D6C01D.893E62C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again Gyan, =20 I think we=E2=80=99re narrowing down and getting somewhat esoteric for = the mailing lists we=E2=80=99re spamming. > Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and = being able > to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource = information > and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like = controller style > provisioning.=20 Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and = path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all = determining how to configure the network to best carry traffic.=20 Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - control plane = TEDs and forwarding plane routing action path computation and instantiation of = path action as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configuration snippet push = function not routing or TE related. =20 [Adrian] I think it depends. The protocols are just tools. You could = have a centralised TE system with a PCE to preform computations, but you = can use any combinations of protocols to extract information from the = network (IGPs, BGP-LS, PCEP-LS, Netconf, =E2=80=A6) and any combination = of protocols to program the network devices to install TE paths, reserve = resources, and configure traffic forwarding rules (PCEP, RSVP-TE, = Netconf, =E2=80=A6). =20 Cheers, Adrian ------=_NextPart_000_0395_01D6C01D.893E62C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi again = Gyan,

 

I think = we=E2=80=99re narrowing down and getting somewhat esoteric for the = mailing lists we=E2=80=99re = spamming.

> = Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and being = able
> to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & = resource information
> and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data = gathering & ZTP like controller style
> = provisioning. 

Is there a = fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and path = computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all = determining how to configure the network to best carry = traffic. 

Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would = be TE - control plane TEDs and
forwarding plane routing action path = computation and instantiation of path action
as compare to a NMS type = Netconf/Yang configuration snippet push function not
routing or TE = related.

 

[Adrian] I think it depends. The protocols are just = tools. You could have a centralised TE system with a PCE to preform = computations, but you can use any combinations of protocols to extract = information from the network (IGPs, BGP-LS, PCEP-LS, Netconf, =E2=80=A6) = and any combination of protocols to program the network devices to = install TE paths, reserve resources, and configure traffic forwarding = rules (PCEP, RSVP-TE, Netconf, =E2=80=A6).

 

Cheers,

Adrian

------=_NextPart_000_0395_01D6C01D.893E62C0-- From nobody Mon Nov 23 02:45:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F3B3A1836 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 02:45:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tegDF0Cz6cJu for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 02:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2101F3A1833 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 02:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id 81so13906154pgf.0 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 02:45:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wte0wf79JTy45ZcPZZY07dnK/I30UMeyrU4YzTD/Uwc=; b=criDPFRzFBW67I6yRoRKWjhtyyP18TiHlhm8xb3iZ6kQp8kEAsNy7V8gXMadf9Ak3D sySBsWieAI4S5w+vKIZTkwHx2loaS8Zza4kA1cjceQnFLq4Slg0yMkDg3jH12smhyzP4 rUU48Hd2A66ne5b07dGL2Db16HBjalG7ILFJEFAzQi4Aruat0We0gbhi+k7U53/lgJuF WaugA3HX3ewj4n3FvwhnaPIurEKPb5Bqsnnqv6mmTzqzexkai5gEQJiGKt4g9C4mDb1A YlJVdMghaSoIgFEcXhrMZHVTxqbCuxKqJunuLcQT7u4pXMc3PtPtoeEMl4E5vgoyO8jA Q8UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wte0wf79JTy45ZcPZZY07dnK/I30UMeyrU4YzTD/Uwc=; b=gPHmC07SOJL7FPibOj8GCNdLk2dESJvI9iMu7lVf6LMfEvtGOsUoMaWOQBgvF50LKs uXLjrixapWtKDBprOSdubgKgb3c2FBiAfhBzTFOTwkbpmzKPEUF50gz+TsO01HcYIE5c DAdP1+Wku1IlmK6jib1+DtBTmzn2Gx1NZhg7Qanj6zLqFtttwmiac2ce0Xw34mfqFOxC 2g6+pFOVcH1Ko3gfoucnq9z+MKJ5N1PF/uab7BdgCbhsFgcT7ZH/J6SN4edLwry9TrgQ Jae/uu/8zC4uIsp6PnBzqnmf4LGKmt8NGv+4z3gx1xX+ZGH+oPT5hjt49i6L4i2JAUkj K8yw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531BnxZsrba8yCW6nNhLKDkv91juGmRogGSpdngBjQjDGMT49u6G HnsjCI+YeFpcVJzt+g0wh7eMmMtsGH+vzOY4X7oDEEC0HXpfirZF X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzuiuTMXtJf0/74eUhaPrUmlMQ4gk/hCCjcrGSyjormb9OHn7p3ARlHfhtwXanDZYJKC/cYbSIyG4YmEjJSChg= X-Received: by 2002:a63:6386:: with SMTP id x128mr26450807pgb.148.1606128301416; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 02:45:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:14:25 +0530 Message-ID: To: pce@ietf.org Cc: pce-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] IETF 109 PCE WG minutes X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:45:05 -0000 Hi WG, Please find the minutes for the PCE WG session - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-pce/ Thanks to Hari and everyone else that contributed to the minutes. Please reach out to pce-chairs@ietf.org in case any correction needs to be made. Thanks! 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Mon, 23 Nov 2020 12:37:16 +0000 From: tom petch To: Dhruv Dhody , "pce@ietf.org" CC: pce-chairs Thread-Topic: Matters arising was Re: [Pce] IETF 109 PCE WG minutes Thread-Index: AQHWwYW7n/BVSgiPZ0CP1GI4rdOSNanVolVw Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 12:37:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dhruvdhody.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dhruvdhody.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.146.121.140] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2c2f7534-6123-42cc-4546-08d88fac82d9 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB5815: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: dTJe8PYBbXKj+wx+9AisS7x77+pvQeJlSKCpSGDgzza6HoPkf3Ddv7YDZQxesqPsSaMO8UyIFUPoR5WgRT6sK4xHi+W3aMFN3+Jwrf0bnGP7Oyz+Bel/EroOw4zKpA6yk3BjbpezF8P63SDeWNuJAUHPECJhWhT/1uITj9a2jkioVA+1uXx9s6io38ScsbETZOtHXZSRpule5LbgwtN4bOkh+FLaZiuS1VqyzlDdsfW96KUsZObxZ4cuUeIYLfl0SsfZr+A9A7KebEIF+v1ieDpaELAv11v3mav3X+mNztkiIvL/enDc35BEQoJ506K9E1IDZDpVgSuuxoelnHXqbiFvi8qAUK12XVqrpKOuJDpkaVuSH7JivFOKJZbYX0KFlv4eoiYXuZQ0965PRtJNsg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2c2f7534-6123-42cc-4546-08d88fac82d9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Nov 2020 12:37:16.4293 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Vt8dcc5f8gB08if82O+G6TbzuIvYJaSu6C7rrWXxDhhvJSb45WvFmgeSOFwVNQN5M+KSdK3K6QNHsdlDRrDe5A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5815 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Matters arising was Re: IETF 109 PCE WG minutes X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 12:37:21 -0000 From: Pce on behalf of Dhruv Dhody =0A= Sent: 23 November 2020 10:44=0A= =0A= =0A= I see no mention of pcep-yang which is one of the hundreds of I-D updated i= n the prelude to the window closing for the meeting:-( I have looked at it= briefly.=0A= =0A= Pagination; the IETF has abolished it. Those doing so expect us to have sh= ort sections that are easy to reference; they are of course unaware of YANG= where a section can run unbroken for 50 pages. So, it behoves us to keep = sections short where that is not impossible. My take is that a section sho= uld be half a page or less. It would be worth looking at the first six sec= tions to see if they can sensibly be divided. I would suggest that whereve= r a page number is missing from the TOC then a change would be good (except= for YANG).=0A= =0A= There is a lot of 'if pce or pce and pcc'. I wonder if a YANG doctor could= find a more elegant expression.=0A= =0A= Likewise but more so for me, there is a lot of must have a value for these= states or else must be zero with some fairly hard to follow IMHO combinati= ons of 'and' 'or' 'not'. I would have thought it simpler to have a 'when' = such that the leaf is absent from the model (as opposed to present and MBZ)= if the states are not suitable.=0A= =0A= Again, for me, I find the repeated use of 'domain' confusing. There is a Y= ANG convention of list plural leaf singular so /domains/domain/ as opposed = to /domain/domain/ but even so there is a lot of domain which I would prefe= r to have slightly differing names.=0A= =0A= Finally, is PCE a routing protocol? There are conventions for routing prot= ocols such as OSPF about defining an identity and where to augment which th= is does not follow suggesting that it does not qualify.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= Hi WG,=0A= =0A= Please find the minutes for the PCE WG session -=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-pce/=0A= From nobody Mon Nov 23 04:53:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35F33A0A3D for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 04:53:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VOasEbmQlipg for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 04:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x636.google.com (mail-pl1-x636.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::636]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A6083A0A3B for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 04:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x636.google.com with SMTP id u2so8787869pls.10 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 04:53:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dhruvdhody-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=d7+On3ORhPkV2+y3SxbwpvCzAeB5NgxYj3xFcioG8lA=; b=rqEQ1ZYd//JEnjBnKC7AJZQEJA+j/iGEpjYVTnkCV5LBD8TLAM0Otq/UO1fWKBXQnN QLtHEBf+wwT2xOXz6/hSHwibXGoDxJr/pbsgyhm3rIC88ZR6AqojDXj+peICNZBwLC2+ Bn0xO9tiJp195WBZugofhpYjdQzaqWsPIfWRXsd4H2JOW5a2gP4UG3ZV0jCQM4J+ETV+ sE+MlgtyzaEww9X3NKd0Vl5Z+gIhFPzL8soQMSqQtV66Be6o+I0PEbeYltjJsF2wTGeO d2gVNmJiKIFI1V3Ezt6jREC2IxneYKUmBF259TxSpNn7iTNdTinfkvUcGmJwehRUaajC zepA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=d7+On3ORhPkV2+y3SxbwpvCzAeB5NgxYj3xFcioG8lA=; b=Hes4zCy4fyFngb3zYAoKSglIJ0m7EFnjgX/+XaORd7pi7KT61E1RgEG2PcoCffBiPo 14gV6mRwzsLtj79o6sDxNfxeDbuyU8hu7ppHYDynWssptbaQNMs1X3PMU1zeTP4NiAAy as+iRJqZnymqujYm+vWIWx+coOua2CRs24u63yz7vR3Qw3jw5MUZRjNvagyh6TTwxyGe aWL1F+RRALfmzsDCrNUlRZON5ApMxlCKAR5SihFTO80CIQOJDgydKGMrIpHrlTqJ4pym wv5F3utNuzg49O840qdV/l6U+d2imjmlOenKoZqPnQG83a+UABEckgeGjKe0l+H4S8aa SrWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533U79soh9+Laf4fEdbwOd61W+ZXJg/Es69Lyyd1OOhMxPwZtlNj EnTwOm6gj5lEy/4lhJfVPogETQG9yy8/DfKmQjpUCw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2Od1M1LgZhOdfsTE2QF7I8ChNj/72crkdnMCYgzI09EZ/5NkudyZXtjesZMTsZNRixXZVrJEKxOsR4+sYmUs= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ba8b:b029:d9:d8b9:f2d7 with SMTP id k11-20020a170902ba8bb02900d9d8b9f2d7mr18452434pls.77.1606135990855; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 04:53:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:22:34 +0530 Message-ID: To: tom petch Cc: "pce@ietf.org" , pce-chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Matters arising was Re: IETF 109 PCE WG minutes X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 12:53:13 -0000 Hi Tom, Thanks for checking on PCEP-Yang. > > I see no mention of pcep-yang which is one of the hundreds of I-D updated= in the prelude to the window closing for the meeting:-( I have looked at = it briefly. > It was part of the chairs slides #15 [https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-pce-1-introd= uction-01]. In the PCE WG, we usually capture only the discussion points in our minutes. > Pagination; the IETF has abolished it. Those doing so expect us to have = short sections that are easy to reference; they are of course unaware of YA= NG where a section can run unbroken for 50 pages. So, it behoves us to kee= p sections short where that is not impossible. My take is that a section s= hould be half a page or less. It would be worth looking at the first six s= ections to see if they can sensibly be divided. I would suggest that where= ver a page number is missing from the TOC then a change would be good (exce= pt for YANG). > I am aware of that discussion. IMHO at this stage, we can look again at these sections and do a change only if it increases the readability. > There is a lot of 'if pce or pce and pcc'. I wonder if a YANG doctor cou= ld find a more elegant expression. > > Likewise but more so for me, there is a lot of must have a value for the= se states or else must be zero with some fairly hard to follow IMHO combina= tions of 'and' 'or' 'not'. I would have thought it simpler to have a 'when= ' such that the leaf is absent from the model (as opposed to present and MB= Z) if the states are not suitable. > > Again, for me, I find the repeated use of 'domain' confusing. There is a= YANG convention of list plural leaf singular so /domains/domain/ as oppose= d to /domain/domain/ but even so there is a lot of domain which I would pre= fer to have slightly differing names. > We did an early yang doctor review some time back, the authors are suggesting another one soon. We can point them to your email as well and see what they suggest. > Finally, is PCE a routing protocol? There are conventions for routing pr= otocols such as OSPF about defining an identity and where to augment which = this does not follow suggesting that it does not qualify. > No, PCE is not a routing protocol and thus does not follow the same convent= ion. Thanks! Dhruv > Tom Petch > > > Hi WG, > > Please find the minutes for the PCE WG session - > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-pce/ From nobody Mon Nov 23 07:34:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704473A074E; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:34:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=E6/Kqahn; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=El9PtQHq Received: from mail.ietf.org 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s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=A8hi3piJ7Ya9+2qYyku/GKVZ+sd5LHe4jjgwv0Uw+sQ=; b=wd5G57RsFViyHc9jAZavPq+RAqsq+PGjh4WzElt+tUR0vIrbHenkKjH4wsp9UWtJVK Zp6SyU02OHV5DqarGL/wC4s5O9YafqYlWft6K3L8NGN+kM4GZbRz5/wQRp7hLIvNhl7/ 196WRRmivZJKganQFo/wijQbHxKikErOkSUdDLmNDLYtdIW/2W4iYgn6gpIbmbhmCpaz 5p2kvDHXEipIYPGMgKGFTSP1palo98YSNNDjBNMnbUHHmzb8NARVMdFrXd4WdZiDn90j 62Jdh80Qst+AJ0auQVDFw0FRLwQp8z0PJG2Lw3ikAzrqHsGp1KGXqL/SZ5AAEw+zM2xI Inlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=A8hi3piJ7Ya9+2qYyku/GKVZ+sd5LHe4jjgwv0Uw+sQ=; b=CchQ3M57xd33Iy0bdIVuEuYGyKhDRIkY3KfbDWfF3rdP4TV6tof8z20HbIfGCqGsPc l5YpWz1oi5gdka5YWPT8xv236Uasn9f0m3LUI/j0KJI8j7wxd7i6AYB098e0tuV6tBCy vPF/wZ/DlpeGEHDHoh4xFtijAqtjS2iNpyKhWfnE6c5nALxrMSy2kvh02Z1RGIbbzQeR 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text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 05:00:09 -0000 Hi Mike, On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 9:04 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi PCE-CHAIRS, > > Would like to understand how does RFC 8697 work in the following scenario= : > > t=3D1: PCE_A creates LSP_1 in Association_A (using Source=3DPCE_A) > t=3D2: PCE_B creates LSP_2 and joins Association_A > t=3D3: PCE_A deletes LSP_1 > > Now, PCE_B owns an Association that has the source address of PCE_A. Mean= while, PCE_A may disconnect from the given PCC and may not be aware that PC= E_B is using PCE_A as the Source. So PCE_A can now reuse the same Associati= on ID somewhere else? > The stateful PCE model works with the assumption that the LSP state from the network is synchronized to all PCEs in the domain. BTW in the case of a temporary disconnect, synchronization between PCE is the proposed solution. Basically, PCE_A needs to be aware of the continued use of association at the PCC/PCE_B in your example. Also, when RFC 8697 suggested using virtual IP as a source in case of PCE redundancy, it was with this understanding that the state is synchronized and one PCE would be aware of association created by another, using the virtual IP as association source (this principle can be applied to PCE_A as source as well). Also, in your case above it would be a good implementation principle for PCE_A to not reuse the same association ID immediately if it can help it :) Anyways as a last resort, there is also a possibility for PCE_B to remove the old association and recreate a new association in an extreme case. Though I would not recommend you do that! =3D RFC 8697 provides a mechanism that is generic and includes the association with LSPs with different headends. PCC based allocation would not work in that case. Isn't it likely that implementations would support other association types as well, and likely implement the generic handling. To me reusing the generic techniques where we can makes sense (that was the very reason for the WG producing RFC 8697). =3D Thanks! Dhruv (as a WG member) > Thanks, > Mike. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 2:39 PM > To: Dhruv Dhody > Cc: Dhruv Dhody ; Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; pce-chairs ; pce@iet= f.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; Cyril Margaria ; Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > Subject: RE: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p= olicy-cp-01 > > Hi Dhruv, > > Thanks again for bringing up this topic. Let's think some more about the = possible solutions and also let other people provide feedback. Perhaps a si= de-meeting can be held as well. > > Have a good weekend, > Mike. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dhruv Dhody > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 10:50 AM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > Cc: Dhruv Dhody ; Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; pce-chairs ; pce@iet= f.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; Cyril Margaria ; Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-p= olicy-cp-01 > > Hi Mike, > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 7:39 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 8:27 AM > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > Cc: Dhruv Dhody ; pce-chairs ; > > pce@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; Cyril > > Margaria ; Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:08 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > I don't think it's valid to dismiss race conditions in the protocol b= ecause they are "rare". If they can happen at all means that implementation= s need to have extra logic to handle these race conditions. > > > > > > > Doesn't this "extra" logic exist anyway, as you must make sure there is= only one SR policy association with a given set of SR Policy parameters un= der normal operations. > > > > [MK] If the PCC allocates the Association Source/ID, then it's always g= oing to choose a unique value, so there will never be any collision. So no,= this "extra" logic won't exist if we go with my proposal. > > > > +1 to what Cyril said. The idea that even when PCE knows about the > existing association created at the PCC and it wants a new CP to join tha= t association, it cannot do so and it must use association-id as zero is we= ird - there is a reason we maintain associations at the PCE. > So my reading was that the use of 0 was only when the SR Policy associati= on was not known. > Also, you don't mention the PCUpd message in your draft, first an existin= g SR-TE path (RFC 8664) can join the SR Policy association using the PCUpd = message. Also, you may want to update the existing CP and carry the already= known association in the PCUpd message. I assume you would want to put "a = non-zero PCC allocated ID''! > > > > > > What is rare today in your deployment, may not be rare tomorrow in an= other deployment. I can think of a case where a PCC connects simultaneously= to many PCEs which create many thousands of SR CPs on it. If they all send= PCInit messages before the head-end replies to them with PCRpt, then you w= ill have this "rare" race condition repeated thousands of times. Each PCE w= ill choose different Source/ID in PCInit and PCC will have to send PCError = back to them. > > > > > > > You make a good point here! What you describe is "possible"! > > > > [MK] I would say "very likely" that you would get a flood of PCError me= ssages in that scenario under scale. > > > > > > > Furthermore, you need logic on the PCC to choose the right Associatio= n out of many. > > > > The logic is the first association created for a given SR policy at the= PCC and that's it! > > > > > There are also undesirable security/privacy implications of putting P= CE/NMS IP address into the Source. It means that if two PCEs are controllin= g different CPs of the same policy, then one of the PCEs can learn the IP a= ddress of the other by reading the Association Source of the PCRpt messages= from the PCC. This is especially bad, because this Association Source has = no semantic meaning in SR Policy and may be hidden in normal show commands.= Furthermore, this IP address of the PCE/NMS that created the policy will b= e associated to the Policy even after PCE disconnects from the PCC, as long= as any CP remains in that Policy. > > > > > > > If any of this is really an issue, we got to update RFC 8697! I am not = advocating for that BTW :) Privacy of one PCE from another in an SR domain = (under same administrative control) is quite a stretch IMHO. > > > > [MK] The two PCEs may not be under one administrative control. Network = A may delegate some tunnels/policies to Network B PCE (for routing through = Network B, for example). > > Delegation outside of your network domain would open you up to so much mo= re security concern than just knowing another PCE address! Even in the case= you mention we would assume there would be a PCEP session between the PCEs= across network domains (so hiding PCE address should not be a concern). > > > In this case, the internal NMS/PCE addresses of Network A would be leak= ed. An operator who is not intimate with the PCEP messaging internals might= never even realize this leak is happening. I believe we should update RFC = 8697, we need to at least state that a privacy violation is possible and th= at the operator needs to assume that internal NMS/PCE addresses are going t= o be leaked to other PCEs via the ASSOCIATION object. > > > > > > BTW, what are your thoughts on the operator-configured association in t= he previous email? Not viable? > > > > [MK] You could set AssocExtID=3DColor, but I=E2=80=99m not sure what yo= u would set Source to? Can we just set it to 0.0.0.0/0::0 and be done? Isn'= t that also a "special value"? > > > > You can set association-source as head-end IP address which is known as p= art of SR-Policy tuple . This rule can be scoped = under the association-type=3DSR-Policy (and not applicable anywhere else). > > > > > > All of this can be avoided if we just allow Source/ID to be 0 in PCIn= it messages. Is that really such a big change? > > > > > > > No, but the WG worked on RFC 8697 to make sure all the associations can= be handled in a common way as much as possible. When deviating from that, = IMHO a higher bar should be met. The WG should ponder if it is met here bas= ed on the scenario described above, that's all. > > > > [MK] I fully understand, but the value of 0 is reserved in that RFC. Ca= n each application use 0/0.0.0.0/0::0 for its own purpose? Is that allowed/= forbidden in the RFC? > > > > The issue for me is not so much the use of 0, it is the idea that it MUST= always be a PCC that allocates association information (going against an e= xisting standard). I feel a simple rule of association creation at any PCEP= peer such as Assoc-Type=3DSR-Policy, Assoc-ID=3D0x0, Ext-Assoc-ID=3Dcolor,= Association-source=3Dheadend can solve it! > > Have a good weekend everyone! > > Thanks! > Dhruv > > > > > > > Thanks! > > Dhruv > > > > PS. Process comment - If the WG decides this is needed (and I am in rou= gh), the procedure needs to be generic and outside the SR policy draft in a= separate I-D, so that other associations can also use it. > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mike. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 5:15 AM > > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > > Cc: Stone, Andrew (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > > > Cyril Margaria ; pce@ietf.org; > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > Hi Mike, Andrew, Cyril, > > > > > > Thanks for a great discussion, more inline... > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 7:23 AM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Andrew, > > > > > > > > See inline with [MK] > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, Dhruv, Cyril: > > > > > > > > We do use errors on initiate messages during race conditions, for e= xample, symbolic name uniqueness on pce-initiated vanilla LSPs. So error ba= sed protection to enforce uniqueness and protect race conditions is managea= ble/done today. > > > > > > > > [MK] The chances of symbolic-names being the same is much less than= the chance of Association Sources being different. Also the symbolic-name = actually has an important meaning, the Association Source has no meaning. G= etting a flood of PCError messages about a field that has no meaning would = be bad. If we can eliminate these error messages completely, why not do tha= t? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [DD] First, the flood of errors is a stretch by any means :) And I ag= ree with Andrew about the 'initiate' case. > > > > > > > > > > > However: would it make sense for the SRPAG definition, to be define= d by the =E2=80=98first=E2=80=99 entity which created the candidate path? w= hen it=E2=80=99s a shared construct with other entities which are now force= d to re-use that value? Using a Virtual IP on the PCE(s) would certainly he= lp, but wouldn=E2=80=99t work correctly with mixed use PCC/PCE init candida= te paths (would anyone do that?), or different vendor PCE/clusters/differen= t virtual IPs would add more complexity. The common element I see is the u= niqueness on PCC and the fact that SRPAG=3D=3DSRPolicy. Since Association S= ource is =E2=80=98scoping for the association ID=E2=80=99, and there is no = association scoping used/needed, then the value is essentially unused =E2= =80=93 therefore just a dummy value assigned by PCC? > > > > > > > > [MK] Yes it=E2=80=99s unused! I like the idea of PCC choosing it. > > > > > > > > > > [DD] For a dynamic association, the default is for the local PCEP spe= aker to be the association source unless local policy says otherwise. > > > > > > Anyways, based on the requirement that you had in the earlier email > > > - > > > > > > Mike> 1. all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, > > > Mike> AND 2. they agree without talking to each other. > > > > > > One can make the SRPolicy association to be considered as an operator= -configured association (i.e. association parameters configured by the oper= ator beforehand on the PCEP peers). > > > > > > Hear me out, we anyway have the SR Policy configuration happening at > > > all peers, could we say that the PCEP association parameters > > > (type/id/source..) need also be set by the operator. If you are worri= ed that it would be extra configuration, there could be rules set by the op= erator for filling the association parameters using SRPolicy such as Assoc-= type=3DSR-Policy, Assoc-ID/Extended Association ID=3DColor, Assoc-source=3D= headend/special value. > > > > > > Note that allowing SRPolicy to be both dynamic and operator-configure= d is also a possiblity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there is a bit of ambiguity as mentioned (PCEP session? Rou= ter ID? ), and still run the risk that PCEP is terminating on different add= resses towards different PCEs / different view of the =E2=80=98PCC address= =E2=80=99. Requesting the PCC to just assign the (unused?) value seems to = like a way to avoid all of the above. With that said, I could be missing o= ther implications/usage of the Association Source field. > > > > > > > > [MK] Yes, requesting the PCC to assign a value would resolve this i= ssue. But the question is what value would the PCE send in PCInit message w= hen first creating a policy? I propose that PCE can send just 0.0.0.0 or 0:= :0 in PCInit messages to indicate to the PCC to pick a value. Alternatively= , PCE can send any value of Association Source/ID, but the PCC will not hon= or it and just choose its own Association Source/ID. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like us (as a WG) to explore if we can use existing mechanism= s first (the very reason we have common association groupings). > > > As of now, I am not sold that the use of error in a 'rare' > > > race-condition is such a bad protocol design that we need to update > > > RFC8697 and introduce new rules for dynamic associations, esp when ot= her ways exist. > > > > > > What do others think? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pce on behalf of "Mike Koldychev > > > > (mkoldych)" > > > > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 1:30 PM > > > > To: Cyril Margaria , Dhruv Dhody > > > > > > > > Cc: "pce@ietf.org" , > > > > "draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org" > > > > , pce-chairs > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cyril, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See inline with [MK] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Cyril Margaria > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:35 AM > > > > To: Dhruv Dhody > > > > Cc: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; pce@ietf.org; > > > > pce-chairs ; > > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [Pce] Association Source in > > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a related question: how do you define the "PCC address", PCE= P session address , one router id? > > > > > > > > [MK] By PCC Address, I meant the IP address of the PCEP session. I = believe a better approach is actually to set Association Source in PCInitia= te message to 0.0.0.0 or 0::0 and let the PCC allocate the correct Source, = same as how Association ID allocation is proposed in the draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the association source race condition, the race condition will = result in a "Conflicting SRPAG TLV" from a PCInitiate/PCUpd, the PCE can us= e the correct SRPAG. > > > > > > > > [MK] It=E2=80=99s not a good protocol design to allow PCError messa= ges to appear randomly when all the parties are following the protocol. Wou= ld really like to avoid that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 16:16, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 9:34 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps we can avoid this by letting PCE send PCInitiate message = with Association Source set to some reserved value, like 0. This can mean t= hat the PCE is basically requesting the PCC to allocate an Association Sour= ce and to =E2=80=9Cown=E2=80=9D that Association. We already do this with t= he Association ID. PCE sets the ID to 0 in PCInitiate and PCC chooses an As= sociation ID and reports it back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The comment was applicable for association-id as well as > > > > association-source! The use of 0 as association ID is being > > > > introduced by your draft and not part of the base RFC 8697 and > > > > that triggered the original email. Julien and I were uncomfortable > > > > with that and wanted to understand what is new here for SR policy > > > > association that requires a new procedure and cant be handled by RF= C 8697. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dhruv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Dhruv Dhody > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM > > > > > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) > > > > > Cc: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp@ietf.org; > > > > > pce@ietf.org; pce-chairs > > > > > Subject: Re: Association Source in > > > > > draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-policy-cp-01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dhruv, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By setting ASSO_SOURCE =3D PCC_ADDRESS, we guarantee that: > > > > > > > > > > all 3 parties: PCC, PCE1 and PCE2 agree on the same source, AND > > > > > they agree without talking to each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In your proposal below, if we set ASSO_SOURCE =3D NMS_ADDRESS, it= seems that condition 1 may be fulfilled, but it requires exchange of PCRup= t/PCUpd messages between the 3 entities, which violates condition 2. Please= correct me if I misunderstood something. In the picture that you drew, you= say that =E2=80=9CPolicy Endpoint=3DX=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CAssociation So= urce=3DX=E2=80=9D, are you suggesting to use the policy endpoint as the ASS= O_SOURCE? That would satisfy both conditions, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if y= ou intended that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I did not! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe condition 2 is important to satisfy, because otherwise = there could be race conditions where the 3 parties have different ASSOC_SOU= RCE for the same policy. Consider what happens when all 3 parties try to cr= eate the same policy at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The SR-Policy association is "dynamic" in nature, and we need to = go by the association parameters we receive from the PCEP peer. Condition 2= of talking to each other is the very nature of a dynamic association! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the race condition is the issue to solve, we can use the SR-Po= licy parameters (color, endpoint, source). And make sure there is only one = SR-Policy-association-group with a given set of SR-Policy parameters (and g= enerate an error otherwise). The other PCE would learn about the associatio= n and can use it subsequently! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to any proposal, but IMO we should respect the a= bove two requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel the requirement 2 is not compatible with a dynamic > > > > > association From nobody Mon Nov 23 22:32:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2803A13B0; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 22:32:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <160619951996.8696.3231881894992345417@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 22:32:00 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-08.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 06:32:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : PCEP Extensions for Segment Routing leveraging the IPv6 data plane Authors : Cheng Li(Editor) Mahendra Singh Negi Siva Sivabalan Mike Koldychev Prejeeth Kaladharan Yongqing Zhu Filename : draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-08.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2020-11-23 Abstract: The Source Packet Routing in Networking (SPRING) architecture describes how Segment Routing (SR) can be used to steer packets through an IPv6 or MPLS network using the source routing paradigm. SR enables any head-end node to select any path without relying on a hop-by-hop signaling technique (e.g., LDP or RSVP-TE). It depends only on "segments" that are advertised by Link- State IGPs. A Segment Routed Path can be derived from a variety of mechanisms, including an IGP Shortest Path Tree (SPT), explicit configuration, or a Path Computation Element (PCE). Since SR can be applied to both MPLS and IPv6 forwarding plane, a PCE should be able to compute SR-Path for both MPLS and IPv6 forwarding plane. This document describes the extensions required for SR support for IPv6 data plane in Path Computation Element communication Protocol (PCEP). The PCEP extension and mechanism to support SR-MPLS is described in RFC 8664. This document extends it to support SRv6 (SR over IPv6). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-ipv6-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 25 03:36:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietf.org Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35993A0EA0; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 03:36:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pce@ietf.org Message-ID: <160630417473.2358.18426309869593321970@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 03:36:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-09.txt X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:36:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element WG of the IETF. Title : PCEP Procedures and Protocol Extensions for Using PCE as a Central Controller (PCECC) of LSPs Authors : Zhenbin Li Shuping Peng Mahendra Singh Negi Quintin Zhao Chao Zhou Filename : draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-09.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2020-11-25 Abstract: The Path Computation Element (PCE) is a core component of Software- Defined Networking (SDN) systems. It can compute optimal paths for traffic across a network and can also update the paths to reflect changes in the network or traffic demands. PCE was developed to derive paths for MPLS Label Switched Paths (LSPs), which are supplied to the head end of the LSP using the Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP). But SDN has a broader applicability than signaled MPLS and GMPLS traffic-engineered (TE) networks, and the PCE may be used to determine paths in a range of use cases. PCEP has been proposed as a control protocol for use in these environments to allow the PCE to be fully enabled as a central controller. A PCE-based Central Controller (PCECC) can simplify the processing of a distributed control plane by blending it with elements of SDN and without necessarily completely replacing it. Thus, the LSP can be calculated/set up/initiated and the label forwarding entries can also be downloaded through a centralized PCE server to each network device along the path, while leveraging the existing PCE technologies as much as possible. This document specifies the procedures and PCEP extensions for using the PCE as the central controller. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pce-pcep-extension-for-pce-controller-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 26 07:35:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B5E3A13C3 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 07:35:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VTaImuAsay1l for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 07:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F16F33A13C1 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 07:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4Chhdz45f6z8tL3 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:35:03 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1606404903; bh=KuMGnRCbzyLfqpOitw4z3R4CWgt5vVYkLw20oRG46Ag=; h=From:Subject:To:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=qNj+D2Op7vL/cBSMGwVghtrpA2UIp9LPUkyx2nR7m9BHXK4dWJjCtZ7FfHDs/nW4/ UVG9Shld8tv6gAp6LwrbrwummRXulqOaNF3VdcQTLFzoOrO9Ec0n0m2VycsV9mkY0q XzPs2InuaTV8H8XvY+rec5tiMW+JsABm71dcdhIu01Zs8Tp+Hfnt1CWa4DaJNU9r6p /7X/9GRmglu42nE4nfCUi+o9Sowk6IBvOHQYZ9bzIDnH7NPxkOcFzXpjHE3/BxmxLE G1B6RCehGpLf4Z9yQRaa8x6fYMRx3/bhVoLV0leXY+JDriWjvbIH1Lo2Y2TYa0v8jq VJ7/Qkk2HoASw== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.82]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4Chhdz3HQgzCqkS for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:35:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.192.147.5] (10.114.13.245) by exchange-eme6.itn.ftgroup (10.114.13.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:35:02 +0100 From: To: "pce@ietf.org" Organization: Orange Message-ID: <78d71c92-ae96-1b3d-87dd-b8e57abeb47e@orange.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:34:58 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms060005020308030602020305" X-Originating-IP: [10.114.13.245] Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] Adoption of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09? X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 15:35:07 -0000 --------------ms060005020308030602020305 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi all, PCECC extensions are progressing towards the IESG. It is time to share your thoughts about draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09. Do you believe the I-D is a right foundation for a PCE WG item? Please use the PCE mailing list to express your comments, support or disagreement, including applicable rationale, especially for the latter. 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X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160640606120.23593.6810018712077282983@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 07:54:21 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] The PCE WG has placed draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 15:54:21 -0000 The PCE WG has placed draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Julien Meuric) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr/ From nobody Thu Nov 26 14:58:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9089F3A0A1F for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:58:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=netflix.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S3yChdSfft7d for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x135.google.com (mail-il1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D63993A0A1D for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x135.google.com with SMTP id r17so3000843ilo.11 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:58:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=netflix.com; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sP/v9clVg1ek16RAacHs0URU9aF63gYOlqRtEy6Yl14=; b=ZHuqNUdimS/EQm1sqf/ZzQ58ANiR7q5wQeGIV4M2mZRWdNxvn2anAq3dG5FmPrXfdl UOUvvsmcoIcd7pB+mlfE8+OTJg+bednXEDHmSijV9FrEmcsbjFJJe3hss1v69bE71Cy+ XtjGAJbWzozMoz7SL6w9b9zFY6nULv/AkeMk0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sP/v9clVg1ek16RAacHs0URU9aF63gYOlqRtEy6Yl14=; b=MgKxTrT4Wxhkn3UiM/woAWPWUQh8DJVts1potLhKZujsvrvE3a+SaXXMJxyQdC5z0C pvKLdRH2wVu9tRNcwQSJAr45TjeFpCPRViubvFc2AXExLlMeA2Uzba+ZytdFguvWlqjM KahNzxRg8QKnQvzz2Y0ZtMkE0MEbnukGFg8H0BljK5P0NRW+4vAEMwLkl2HWFD9yUSQD dL8tdJubgETKIt0/tiAiDIuoQ9wsWWTkiACbHGzDjjZ69l+bEmdHx6ocvySjXjgmxgqE kEYTXMJ6wkjDKGrhF+5Zql3V0eii6s/0fH+n51Pqbtjin2y5ilHcnlzPXj2W0/i9IpaP 9jjg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530PQSzV67KEYHZ0FMhtpJHrDb2JVdlsKScX9hnSsxz5D57+63iC 69YYPpEqRmOj3qb+Ojq6dlX1DO3BPovPpd4SynPbhw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz6LYHgdO+yDpDJ9k4p3Ur/aIXS7kx43tVzj/ldHH5G+vBTiTsLQqJN3NWy9XiclzZo92WJWyiDl6gt7KRpgak= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c7c2:: with SMTP id g2mr4280228ilk.300.1606431517883; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:58:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Hariharan Ananthakrishnan Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:58:27 -0800 Message-ID: To: lizhenbin@huawei.com, pengshuping@huawei.com, Mahend Negi , qzhao@ethericnetworks.com, chaozhou_us@yahoo.com Cc: pce@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fb00d905b50a7b80" Archived-At: Subject: [Pce] IPR Poll on draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 22:58:41 -0000 --000000000000fb00d905b50a7b80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Authors, In preparation for WG adoption on this draft, I'd like all authors and contributors to confirm on the list that they are in compliance with IETF IPR rules. Please respond (copying the mailing list) to say one of: I am not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft that should be disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules. I am aware of the IPR applicable to this draft, and it has already been disclosed to the IETF. I am aware of IPR applicable to this draft, but that has not yet been disclosed to the IETF. I will work to ensure that it will be disclosed in a timely manner. Thanks, - Hari --000000000000fb00d905b50a7b80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hi Aut=
hors,

In preparation for WG adoption on this draft, I'd like all
authors and contributors to confirm on the list that they are in compliance
with IETF IPR rules.
Please respond (copying the mailing list) to say one of:<=
/pre>
I am not aware of any IPR app=
licable to this draft that should be disclosed
in accordance with IETF IPR rules.

I am aware of the IPR applicable to this draft, and it has already been
disclosed to the IETF.

I am aware of IPR applicable to this draft, but that has not yet been
disclosed to the IETF. I will work to ensure that it will be disclosed in a
timely manner.

Thanks,
- Hari
--000000000000fb00d905b50a7b80-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 18:26:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4053A1015 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:26:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UfT0DISdzsin for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 458CF3A1013 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Chz281NYzz67J2R for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:23:28 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.35) by fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:26:09 +0100 Received: from DGGEML423-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.40) by fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.2106.2 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:26:08 +0100 Received: from DGGEML529-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.134]) by dggeml423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:26:01 +0800 From: "Chengli (Cheng Li)" To: "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Pce] Adoption of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09? Thread-Index: AQHWxAnVx9iO4MmbQ0G1gv1Gz1yb2qnbQDgg Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 02:26:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <78d71c92-ae96-1b3d-87dd-b8e57abeb47e@orange.com> In-Reply-To: <78d71c92-ae96-1b3d-87dd-b8e57abeb47e@orange.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.130] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Adoption of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09? 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Fri, 27 Nov 2020 05:21:27 +0000 Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 05:21:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Chao Zhou To: "lizhenbin@huawei.com" , "pengshuping@huawei.com" , Mahend Negi , "qzhao@ethericnetworks.com" , Hariharan Ananthakrishnan Cc: "pce@ietf.org" Message-ID: <73745856.1895639.1606454484231@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1895638_1557297063.1606454484229" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17111 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_10_5) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/86.0.4240.198 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] IPR Poll on draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 05:21:30 -0000 ------=_Part_1895638_1557297063.1606454484229 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hari,I am not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft that should be disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules.Thanks,-Chao On Thursday, November 26, 2020, 05:58:39 PM EST, Hariharan Ananthakrishnan wrote: Hi Authors, In preparation for WG adoption on this draft, I'd like all authors and contributors to confirm on the list that they are in compliance with IETF IPR rules.Please respond (copying the mailing list) to say one of:I am not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft that should be disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules. I am aware of the IPR applicable to this draft, and it has already been disclosed to the IETF. I am aware of IPR applicable to this draft, but that has not yet been disclosed to the IETF. I will work to ensure that it will be disclosed in a timely manner. Thanks, - Hari ------=_Part_1895638_1557297063.1606454484229 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hi Hari,
I am not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft that should be disclosed
in accordance with IETF IPR rules.
Thanks,
-Chao

On Thursday, November 26, 2020, 05:58:39 PM EST, Hariharan Ananthakrishnan <hari@netflix.com> wrote: 


Hi Authors,

In preparation for WG adoption on this draft, I'd like all
authors and contributors to confirm on the list that they are in compliance
with IETF IPR rules.
Please respond (copying the mailing list) to say one of:
I am not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft that should be disclosed
in accordance with IETF IPR rules.

I am aware of the IPR applicable to this draft, and it has already been
disclosed to the IETF.

I am aware of IPR applicable to this draft, but that has not yet been
disclosed to the IETF. I will work to ensure that it will be disclosed in a
timely manner.

Thanks,
- Hari
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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 634823A0B02 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.200]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4CkntR1b1Mz67Crk; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:38:07 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.37) by fraeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:39:59 +0100 Received: from DGGEML424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.41) by fraeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.2106.2 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:39:58 +0100 Received: from DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.143]) by dggeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:39:48 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: Hariharan Ananthakrishnan , Lizhenbin , Mahend Negi , "qzhao@ethericnetworks.com" , "chaozhou_us@yahoo.com" CC: "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09 Thread-Index: AQHWxEe0GOiMPCNS+k6pfbfHofTNsqnf6lRQ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:39:48 +0000 Message-ID: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE1965FE00@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.153.194.142] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE1965FE00DGGEML532MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] IPR Poll on draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=foxmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GebfUR9gw_iH; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 18:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from qq.com (out162-62-58-211.mail.qq.com [162.62.58.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 363D63A0B3B; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 18:53:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=foxmail.com; s=s201512; t=1606704794; bh=KclgoFmkBv6sVFEI17/s392W18IJF/PWXYFpAocLXnw=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References; b=tmf3ywu477t6CBD8mTyZTHOsm4nBflNcCaXPvR3B8lWrl9BI1OKG9UHmp3OglqcVg P0VvQhmfHJI2aN88B9KNwyleef33BlsxWckk54Or/VA7mFqMMmizb9NrQywo8o/xs3 qheg+c3NzifFZrrK15PF+Mb765qWhmHceriNkP3A= Received: from cmcc-PC ([221.130.253.135]) by newxmesmtplogicsvrsza8.qq.com (NewEsmtp) with SMTP id D4CA06B5; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 10:53:12 +0800 X-QQ-mid: xmsmtpt1606704792tof8fbpr2 Message-ID: X-QQ-XMAILINFO: OfDvBAQl8r95BS1r51zxpivBKYlxtNlZng2Bxh2QUeiPNd0JWjM8skBtphNNLR wB2qQJHby4373zBKAuHPGfoBF3uvt1D5JU3/YV0t9ocSzqSaC9vbXZNpk856b9cfNNx6eyc6MJp1 zt4zW1EupwGGLRfgBJekAJttts0kiURMg833swgpncZ7aCQDuG6RgqFnRcLRPpXLgDzmFjQk34n/ gC+ptQ983E+7TB3N3PIjosRI9Qtci8InmTMNiuHl+QxzpUA8YLkPXsS3YkAEOQngh7TzShz/tolA JiQmBJwGc7kz4LZ0zEzIRv2qczDlfnR+z9K49nyxg8nE5m9yyan2KVVPNNkYsIN2CQ/FqADz2EnL c2xbQd/ln1lDwuPjJcBH/fha71JW0FdoS4xgKrw1Bz10atm+qc1l79BfbnBav9HnUgH6+eBhMFyL 5tQmYZc/WKpd6iPfRqj8LDMfSJ6tOez7UTQ6zlg5FAbNgzFO8JXmS1ZJVgsnzFQyLPqFqUQMbDdU MVQX3PTKaCQUXHqInps8nP54bfO6JSRJGxAFdtmW604LNgjq2YwQYfiRmkUL8oWa2eOtLZ9aTVoj HVcvRO9BjMP9R/yJlMjaMv7x6OAt1JJ1tCuOcI1D9R0ODumvLRRyVcTIAPD+Hf8qcAuvvKwy07TP EbqlAj0BmIGmm+zWdqdEBGDP/lvVCPfhFXdMJLpVqbUamu0pMtzqs8vKZE78uqOYtZn+3BgZeEEy kcGRvd87z3TrodspV7eIm7/apvSANdoNmVHtojH2Eln5P/xfxG/+01EtzIIkSEFXj+BpSTa66xGB Uc+Af+ObmNXyyDknvFSIDhl35Mtnox3YCKhcNk9DG50FTkjnnZWX++1OlebKVS9Yw= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 10:53:30 +0800 From: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" To: "IETF Secretariat" , "draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr@ietf.org" , "pce-chairs@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" References: <160640606120.23593.6810018712077282983@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.15.80[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <202011301053300251160@foxmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart662684328464_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] The PCE WG has placed draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:53:30 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart662684328464_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsLCANCg0KSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgSXQgaXMgdXNlZnVsIGZvciB0aGUgd29ya2dyb3Vw LCBhbmQgSSBzdXBwb3J0IHRoZSBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBvZiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0LiANCg0KVGhhbmsg eW91ISANCg0KDQpab25ncGVuZyBEdQ0KDQoNCg0KDQpkdXpvbmdwZW5nQGZveG1haWwuY29tICYg ZHV6b25ncGVuZ0BjaGluYW1vYmlsZS5jb20NCiANCkZyb206IElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCkRh dGU6IDIwMjAtMTEtMjYgMjM6NTQNClRvOiBkcmFmdC16aGFvLXBjZS1wY2VwLWV4dGVuc2lvbi1w Y2UtY29udHJvbGxlci1zckBpZXRmLm9yZzsgcGNlLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgcGNlQGlldGYu b3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbUGNlXSBUaGUgUENFIFdHIGhhcyBwbGFjZWQgZHJhZnQtemhhby1wY2Ut 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Hi All,

I support the adoption= of the draft as the co-author.

 

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

 

 

 

Date: 2020-11-26 23:54=

Subject: [Pce] The PCE WG has placed draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr in state &qu= ot;Call For Adoption By WG Issued"

 

The PCE WG ha= s placed draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr in state

Call For Adop= tion By WG Issued (entered by Julien Meuric)

 

The document = is available at

 

 

_____________= __________________________________

Pce mailing l= ist

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To: Hariharan Ananthakrishnan , Mahend Negi , "qzhao@ethericnetworks.com" , "chaozhou_us@yahoo.com" CC: "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll on draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09 Thread-Index: AQHWxEeyrrq+bDNcbkWsVxcK6J8sA6nfZLQAgAD17sA= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 08:16:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D93926F40@dggemm512-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE1965FE00@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE1965FE00@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.153.194.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D93926F40dggemm512mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] IPR Poll on draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09 X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list 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Thread-Index: AQHWxAnVdbrsoddYskqjHiF6BjUTAangWIwQ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 08:22:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F4050E6FBE@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <78d71c92-ae96-1b3d-87dd-b8e57abeb47e@orange.com> In-Reply-To: <78d71c92-ae96-1b3d-87dd-b8e57abeb47e@orange.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.136] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Adoption of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09? 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DKeM93jMoX3BOC0Giy.hIZ62Gw4A7wOcde9KERTcEl99CrIeMmeMg_92iMXLrLJipZaY5Inuqbwn .qGR1HDcYkxMg25iFFF5PvK6bwdWPIOq4kI3OzwtPlxtr1f0yEEAkySMoeCrBJx.8Ioj6tbIYKzM Dcp.6XR0gNhiXnT8S8vwiyGSaDDwhIvoaigQLx04Fzw.1eHkuO3X0hLNkDtWxjMB.BBZPANUOIQC eOWjf9qZHf5tqXlTcnt4dfU9FZVi7klmtgERNyAoLM486P74wMzDdqlxINQMqaJ2LsdhrIZzEYyn fSHY- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 19:24:12 +0000 Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 19:24:11 +0000 (UTC) From: Chao Zhou To: "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "pce@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1131604929.2592336.1606764251514@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F4050E6FBE@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <78d71c92-ae96-1b3d-87dd-b8e57abeb47e@orange.com> <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F4050E6FBE@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2592335_1194297450.1606764251513" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17111 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_10_5) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/86.0.4240.198 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pce] Adoption of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09? X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Path Computation Element List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 19:24:28 -0000 ------=_Part_2592335_1194297450.1606764251513 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, I believe this is a useful extension for both PCECC and SR. I support to adopt this as PCE WG item. Thanks,-Chao -----Original Message----- From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of julien.meuric@orange.com Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:35 PM To: pce@ietf.org Subject: [Pce] Adoption of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09? Hi all, PCECC extensions are progressing towards the IESG. It is time to share your thoughts about draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09. Do you believe the I-D is a right foundation for a PCE WG item? Please use the PCE mailing list to express your comments, support or disagreement, including applicable rationale, especially for the latter. Thanks, Dhruv & Julien _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce ------=_Part_2592335_1194297450.1606764251513 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi there,

= I believe this is a useful extension for both PCECC and SR. I support to ad= opt this as PCE WG item.

Thanks,
-Chao

-----Original Message-----
From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of julien.meuric@orange.com
Sent: Th= ursday, November 26, 2020 11:35 PM
Subject: [Pce] Adoption of draft-zhao-pce-pcep-ext= ension-pce-controller-sr-09?

Hi all,

PCECC= extensions are progressing towards the IESG. It is time to share your thou= ghts about draft-zhao-pce-pcep-extension-pce-controller-sr-09.
Do you believe the I-D is a right foundation for a PCE WG ite= m? Please use the PCE mailing list to express your comments, support or dis= agreement, including applicable rationale, especially for the latter.

Thanks,

Dhruv & Julien


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