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Please Notice PCN BOF is NOT in the IETF Agenda dated Oct 2, 2006 
00:14:26 -0400 yet.
Just want to save some of your time looking for it (as I have done). :)
-- Kwok --

>To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 02 10:10:10 2006
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Thought I'd try to close a few more of the Issues - covering the Issues
"A. Terminology Issues" listed at
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt=20
=20
A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue=20
Should the region running the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2998 supports use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of Domain.
Personally I don't mind, happy to stick with PCN-region as currently
used in draft-chan-problem-statement.=20
=20
A2      "PIN Term" Issue=20
Should we use the terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2475 supports use of PCN Interior Node
Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind
much. So happy to stick with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement
=20
=20
A3      "PEN Term" Issue
Should we use the terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN
Boundary Node or PCN Border Node or PCN Gateway Node (function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 The term currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End Node
=20
Personally I don't like the term PCN End Node - the problem is that it
will probably get shortened to end node (already seen this happening on
the list). I think this will get confusing as [1] the innocent may think
it means 'end host'; [2] the deployment models will probably show how
PCN fits into the 'big picture' of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd
have both end hosts & PCN End Nodes.=20
=20
I also think PCN Gateway Node (function) could be slightly confusing.
The actual physical node where the "PCN End Node" function sits is
typically the PCN-region's gateway node, but it could in some deployment
situations be an end host, if the PCN-region extends out that far.=20
=20
PCN Boundary Node would be consistent with rfc2474 terminology.
PCN Border Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested.=20
=20
PCN Edge Node allows us to continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with
its hint of 'penning in' the PCN-region.=20
=20
I favour PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border Node
=20

=20

A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.  Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?

=20

Best wishes

phil


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<div class=3DSection1><pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thought I&#8217;d try to close a few more of =
the Issues &#8211; covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology =
Issues&#8221; listed at <a
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</=
a> </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;PCN-Region Term&quot; Issue </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should =
the region running the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or =
PCN-Domain?</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> RFC2998 =
supports use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of =
Domain.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t mind, happy to stick =
with PCN-region as currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement. =
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PIN =
Term&quot; Issue </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we =
use the terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node =
(function)?</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> RFC2475 =
supports use of PCN Interior Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior =
Node, though I don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to stick with PCN =
Interior Node as currently used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PEN =
Term&quot; Issue</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we =
use the terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node =
or PCN Border Node or PCN Gateway Node =
(function)?</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> The term =
currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End =
Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t like the term PCN =
End Node &#8211; the problem is that it will probably get shortened to =
end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will =
get confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means &#8216;end =
host&#8217;; [2] the deployment models will probably show how PCN fits =
into the &#8216;big picture&#8217; of end-to-end QoS, in which case =
we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; PCN End Nodes. =
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I also =
think PCN Gateway Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The =
actual physical node where the &#8220;PCN End Node&#8221; function sits =
is typically the PCN-region&#8217;s gateway node, but it could in some =
deployment situations be an end host, if the PCN-region extends out that =
far. </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN =
Boundary Node would be consistent with rfc2474 =
terminology.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN =
Border Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested. =
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Edge =
Node allows us to continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of =
&#8216;penning in&#8217; the PCN-region. </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I favour =
PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border =
Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking =
term&#8221;
Issue</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Pre-emption Marking may =
seem to
indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow =
additional
new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not allowed in =
some
markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be used instead =
of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>Michael suggested &#8220;</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>excess traffic
mark&#8221; &#8211; what do you reckon?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>Best wishes</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>phil</span></font></p>

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Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:

>A4    =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue
>
>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the=20
>requirement of pre-empting existing=20
>flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
>flows/sessions to be admitted.  This scenario is=20
>not allowed in some markets due to=20
>regulations.  Should a better term be used=20
>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the=20
>need to reduce the offered traffic load to the=20
>congested portions of the network?
>
>Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?

How about the terms of:
"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking=20
indication of exceeding the "Admissible Rate"
and
"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking=20
indication of exceeding the "Supportable Rate" ?

It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the=20
appropriate action when the rate of traffic is
not "Supportable" anymore.  With Preemption being=20
one of the possible policy decision actions.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>         boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>
>
>Thought I=92d try to close a few more of the=20
>Issues =96 covering the Issues =93A. Terminology=20
>Issues=94 listed at=20
><http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt>http:/=
/standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt=20
>
>
>A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>Should the region running the PCN mechanism be=20
>called the PCN-Region or PCN-Domain?
>  Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
>  RFC2998 supports use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of Domain.
>Personally I don=92t mind, happy to stick with=20
>PCN-region as currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement.
>
>A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>Should we use the terminology PCN Interior Node=20
>or PCN Intermediate Node (function)?
>  Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
>  RFC2475 supports use of PCN Interior Node
>Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior Node,=20
>though I don=92t mind much. So happy to stick with=20
>PCN Interior Node as currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement
>
>
>A3      "PEN Term" Issue
>Should we use the terminology PCN End Node or=20
>PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN Border=20
>Node or PCN Gateway Node (function)?
>  Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
>  The term currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End Node
>
>Personally I don=92t like the term PCN End Node =96=20
>the problem is that it will probably get=20
>shortened to end node (already seen this=20
>happening on the list). I think this will get=20
>confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means=20
>=91end host=92; [2] the deployment models will=20
>probably show how PCN fits into the =91big=20
>picture=92 of end-to-end QoS, in which case we=92d=20
>have both end hosts & PCN End Nodes.
>
>I also think PCN Gateway Node (function) could=20
>be slightly confusing. The actual physical node=20
>where the =93PCN End Node=94 function sits is=20
>typically the PCN-region=92s gateway node, but it=20
>could in some deployment situations be an end=20
>host, if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>
>PCN Boundary Node would be consistent with rfc2474 terminology.
>PCN Border Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>
>PCN Edge Node allows us to continue to use the=20
>nice acronym PEN, with its hint of =91penning in=92 the PCN-region.
>
>I favour PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border Node
>
>A4    =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue
>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the=20
>requirement of pre-empting existing=20
>flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
>flows/sessions to be admitted.  This scenario is=20
>not allowed in some markets due to=20
>regulations.  Should a better term be used=20
>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the=20
>need to reduce the offered traffic load to the=20
>congested portions of the network?
>Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?
>
>Best wishes
>phil
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

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<body>
Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:<br><br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">
<font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =93Pre-emption
Marking term=94 Issue<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>Pre-emption Marking may seem to
indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow
additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not
allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be
used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the
offered traffic load to the congested portions of the network?<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>Michael suggested =93excess traffic
mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?</font></blockquote><br>
How about the terms of:<br>
&quot;Admissible Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of
exceeding the &quot;Admissible Rate&quot;<br>
and <br>
&quot;Supportable Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of
exceeding the &quot;Supportable Rate&quot; ?<br><br>
It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when
the rate of traffic is<br>
not &quot;Supportable&quot; anymore.&nbsp; With Preemption being one of
the possible policy decision actions.<br><br>
Thanks!<br>
-- Kwok --<br><br>
At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Content-class:
urn:content-classes:message<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>
boundary=3D&quot;----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF&quot;<br><br>
<br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Thought I=92d try to close=
 a
few more of the Issues =96 covering the Issues =93A. Terminology Issues=94
listed at
<a href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</a>
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PCN-Region Term&quot; Issue
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should the region running
the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2998 supports use
of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
Domain.</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I don=92t mind,
happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement.
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PIN Term&quot; Issue
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should we use the
terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2475 supports use
of PCN Interior
Node</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I slightly
prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don=92t mind much. So happy to stick
with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PEN Term&quot;
Issue</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should we use the
terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
(function)?</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;The term currently
used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
Node</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I don=92t like =
the
term PCN End Node =96 the problem is that it will probably get shortened to
end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will get
confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means =91end host=92; [2] the
deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the =91big picture=92
of end-to-end QoS, in which case we=92d have both end hosts &amp; PCN End
Nodes. </font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>I also think PCN Gateway
Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
where the =93PCN End Node=94 function sits is typically the PCN-region=92s
gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end host,
if the PCN-region extends out that far.
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Boundary Node would be
consistent with rfc2474
terminology.</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Border Node is a
similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Edge Node allows us to
continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of =91penning in=92 the
PCN-region. </font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>I favour PCN Edge Node, an=
d
also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
Node</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;<br>
A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue<br>
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?<br>
Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Best wishes<br>
phil<br>
</font>_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
PCN@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora=3D"autourl">
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote></body>
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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 02 10:51:21 2006
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Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption
	NotAllowedIssue.Used	to be Re:
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Just a quick follow-up.

There are 3 bit-rates of interest on a link
1. configured-admission-rate (or - Michael's proposal - admissible link
rate)
2. configured-pre-emption-rate (or - Michael's proposal - supportable
link rate)
3. line rate - the maximum possible rate available to packets of the
traffic class using the PCN mechanism (this might not be the bit-rate of
the router interface, since there might be some capacity assigned eg for
control/management traffic)

the first two (at least) are up to the operator to set.

If the traffic rate on a link exceeds (3) line rate, the pkts have to be
queued / dropped.
However, when this happens then all flows through the congested router
are affected. Hence the idea of the configured-pre-emption-rate (which
is set a bit less than the line rate) - this enables a few flows to be
pre-empted, hence the line rate is not exceeded and so all the remaining
flows get their full QoS.
However, pre-emption is probably something an operator will want to do
as rarely as possible. Hence the idea of a configured-admission-rate: by
doing admission control the chances of a link exceeding the
configured-pre-emption-rate or line rate can be reduced.

Setting the 3 rates relative to each other is (as stated below)
basically up to the operator. Their choice could depend on things like=20
- what the link bandwidth is
- what the typical flow bandwidth is expected to be
- how variable rate are the flows expected to be
- how strongly does the operator not want to pre-empt existing flows &
how strongly to admit new flows
- etc

as you say, simulations to explore the trade-offs etc here would be very
good.=20

best wishes
phil/=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]=20
Sent: 27 September 2006 09:25
To: menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption
NotAllowedIssue.Used to be Re:
[PCN]draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt

Hi Michael

I think that you are right, we need to somehow provide some
quantification=20
of the overprovisioning, which depends on:
1)  the time until the calls are admtted: If the response time is long,
the
overprovisioning is substantial.
2)  the statistics of the aggregated traffic. It will work well with
traffic
that have a nice average behaviour.
3)  mass-call events that usually happends in telefony networks.  If the
number of calls suddenly increases, the PCN will not have time to block
the
calls.
4) response time for the measurement function.

Best Regards,
Georgios


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: woensdag 27 september 2006 8:36
To: Geib, Ruediger
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not
AllowedIssue.Used to be Re: [PCN]
draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt

Hi Ruediger, Stuart,

I think that the question is the following: How large should the
admissible
and supportable link rates be that QoS can be maintained in spite of
(1) bursty traffic
(2) admission errors due to the measurement-based nature of the AC
(flash
crowds)
(3) redirected traffic due to likely network outages like single link
failures The answer depends on the traffic model and the link capacity.
I
think this defines plenty of work for academic parametric studies to
give
guidelines for operators. This is a feasible thing to do. We addressed
issue
(3) in previous work for a different NAC approach. If the network is
configured to copy with (1)-(3), QoS is quite well protected.  And if
all
the assumptions for (1)-(3) fail that were made for the configuration,
then
preemption kicks in, but only then.

Best wishes,

    Michael

Geib, Ruediger wrote:
> Stuart,
>
> if "pre-congestion level" is the configured-admission-rate, then=20
> "leaving enough excess capacity" is, at least from my point of view, a

> planning task. PCN should make sure that vendors have sufficient=20
> guidance to implement the knobs allowing network operators to fulfill=20
> this task.
>
> As I mentioned, what a "relatively high (CL load) level"=20
> on a particular PCN link is, should for his network entirely be the=20
> decision of a carrier. As long as the SLA's defining the CL service=20
> commercially are kept, it is nobody else' matter how it is produced.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rudiger
>
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART) [mailto:sgoldman@lucent.com]
> |Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:36 PM
> |To: Geib, Rudiger; khchan@nortel.com
> |Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> |Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not=20
> |AllowedIssue. Used to be Re: [PCN]=20
> |draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> |
> |
> |Ruediqer,
> |
> |I think my mental picture is close to your view of having the two=20
> |level settings. I would hope that the pre-congestion level while=20
> |relatively high still leaves enough excess capacity so that the=20
> |actions taken are more likely to prevent the second level from
actually
being crossed.
> |
> |Stuart Goldman
> |Lucent Technologies
> |sgoldman@lucent.com
> |602 493 8438
> |
> |
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: Geib, Ruediger [mailto:Ruediger.Geib@t-systems.com]
> |Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:29 AM
> |To: khchan@nortel.com; GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART)
> |Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> |Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not=20
> |AllowedIssue. Used to be Re: [PCN]=20
> |draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> |
> |Kwok, Stuart,
> |
> |my take may be a slightly different one. PCN allows to mark packets=20
> |once a settable load level has been reached on a particular link and=20
> |prior to any of these packets being discarded due to the traffic rate

> |crossing a second settable rate.
> |
> |The former of both rates is the admissible link rate or=20
> |configured-admission-rate. The latter is the supportable link rate or

> |configured-preemption-rate. My understanding is that PCN doesn't=20
> |specify "service" to more detail then demanding CL like performance=20
> |for admitted traffic. To reach this aim, the preemption-rate must be=20
> |chosen sufficiently bigger than the admission-rate. How the rates are

> |set exactly is left to operators and depends on the network planning=20
> |philosophy applied by each of them and the characteristics of the=20
> |traffic being forwarded by PCN. A second condition is that PCN=20
> |traffic should consist of a large number of multiplexed flows whose=20
> |individual peak rate is small as compared to the admission-rate. What

> |PCN should do is provide simulation results and measurements prooving

> |that the mechanism works under todays "common" load and network=20
> |conditions.
> |Giving guidance on operational settings for a variety of networks and

> |traffic mixes to me is a research topic, which is out of scope of the

> |PCN WG. A BCP may be published, once sufficient "P" is available.
> |
> |Regards,
> |
> |Rudiger
> |
> ||-----Original Message-----
> ||From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
> ||Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 5:30 PM
> ||To: GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART)
> ||Cc: pcn@ietf.org; Shahram Davari; ken carlberg
> ||Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not=20
> ||AllowedIssue. Used to be Re: [PCN]=20
> ||draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> ||
> ||
> ||Stuart:
> ||No problem.
> ||By "Pre-Congestion", we mean:
> ||"if additional IP packet traffic is admitted (into the traffic class

> ||handling this traffic), then already admitted traffic (of the same=20
> ||traffic class) will experience degraded QoS.
> ||This degraded QoS happens at specific nodes (or diffserv hops) of=20
> ||the end-to-end path because we are working with IP packet network. =20
> ||This degraded QoS may affect the end-to-end service required of the=20
> ||network by the Using Application."
> ||
> ||Of course there are many factors that defines what is (and what is
> ||not) acceptable
> ||"degraded QoS" and how much additional traffic will cause the=20
> ||degraded QoS to be not acceptable, for example:
> ||- the Using Application and the requirements it have on the network.
> ||--- hence we are looking at inelastic, interactive, Real-Time use of

> ||the network (first).
> ||- the ratio of the total shared (by the traffic class) network=20
> ||resource at specific network
> ||   nodes with respect to each admitted traffic flow and each=20
> ||to-be-admitted traffic flow.
> ||   This indicates how each additional traffic flow over some limit=20
> ||will impact already
> ||   admitted traffic flows.  In both space and time dimensions.
> ||--- hence we are looking into amount of network resource, e.g. size=20
> ||of network pipes.
> ||     We first look at the easier one (we think), large network=20
> ||pipes.  Then the harder ones
> ||     of smaller and smaller network pipes.
> ||- the characteristic of the traffic flows, for example are they=20
> ||constant bit rate?  Or close
> ||   to constant bit rate?, etc.
> ||- the promised service to the Using Application.
> ||   On this Issue B.9, we are talking about promised service of NO=20
> ||PREEMPTION
> ||    (but may be with some condition).
> ||
> ||As you indicated, the network resource we are discussing allows=20
> ||provisioning of detection before congestion, before the packet=20
> ||forwarding queues gets backed up.
> ||And we want to have some capacity still available (this may be view=20
> ||as one of the ways on HOW we can do this).  But you are right that=20
> ||we may need to conserve this head-room capacity, but again depending

> ||on for what reasons.
> ||Is it because we can not preempt any admitted flows?
> ||Is it because we need to handle emergency services?
> ||Is it because we need to handle none-constant bit rate traffic?
> ||Some other reasons or combinations of them?
> ||
> ||These are still topics of discussions and additional work we hope we

> ||can do together in this WG (hopeful result of the PCN BOF).
> ||
> ||Sorry for such a long reply, just want to indicate some of the=20
> ||thinkings I have and working toward/down the path of agreements.
> ||Thanks!
> ||-- Kwok --
> ||
> ||
> ||At 07:34 PM 9/24/2006, GOLDMAN, STUART O \(STUART\) wrote:
> ||>Kwok,
> ||>
> ||>Sorry to have taken so long to respond, but my day job got
> |in the way.
> ||>
> ||>As I understood the topic, we are addressing pre-congestion. In=20
> ||>that light, I assumed that congestion has not yet occurred, but
> |that we are
> ||>approaching congestion. So, I further assumed that there was
> ||still some
> ||>capacity available, although this remaining capacity needs to be=20
> ||>conserved as best as possible.
> ||>
> ||>Am I am the right wavelength?
> ||>
> ||>Stuart Goldman
> ||>Lucent Technologies
> ||>sgoldman@lucent.com
> ||>602 493 8438
> ||>
> ||>-----Original Message-----
> ||>From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
> ||>Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:58 AM
> ||>To: GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART)
> ||>Cc: Kwok-Ho Chan; Shahram Davari; pcn@ietf.org; ken carlberg
> ||>Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not=20
> ||>AllowedIssue. Used to be Re: [PCN]=20
> ||>draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> ||>
> ||>Stuart:
> ||>Preemption is just one of possibly multiple decisions the End Node=20
> ||>function can take.
> ||>Hence you are right that there may be other decisions that
> |is of value
> ||>to the
> ||>system as a whole, possibly depending on the deployment evironment.
> ||>
> ||>These discussions we have so far indicates that we may not
> ||want to call
> ||>the network information the Interior Nodes are providing as
> ||"Preemption
> ||>Mark"
> ||>indication.
> ||>
> ||>Hence these discussions are very helpful for our BOF/WG.
> ||>
> ||>Thanks!
> ||>-- Kwok --
> ||>
> ||>
> ||>At 01:37 PM 9/20/2006, GOLDMAN, STUART O \(STUART\) wrote:
> ||> >Kwok-Ho,
> ||> >While you seem to have only mentioned preemption, there
> ||should be ways
> ||> >to recognize a call deserving higher than normal preference
> ||and giving
> ||> >it that preference to the remaining network resources
> ||without having to
> ||> >preempt a call in progress. Yes?
> ||> >
> ||> >Stuart Goldman
> ||> >Lucent Technologies
> ||> >sgoldman@lucent.com
> ||> >602 493 8438
> ||> >
> ||> >
> ||> >-----Original Message-----
> ||> >From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
> ||> >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:54 AM
> ||> >To: Shahram Davari
> ||> >Cc: pcn@ietf.org; ken carlberg
> ||> >Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not=20
> ||> >AllowedIssue. Used to be Re: [PCN]=20
> ||> >draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> ||> >
> ||> >Shahram:
> ||> >I totally agree.
> ||> >The cell phone network was also jammed during 9/11.
> ||> >I was trying to reach my brother who were stuck in the subway
> ||> >~2 stops from WTC.
> ||> >So I know exactly how this feels like.  But I prefer to let the=20
> ||> >Police and Firemen to use this resource to help the general=20
> ||> >public at large.
> ||> >
> ||> >The question becomes:
> ||> >- Does the Emergency Services want to use the same physical=20
> ||> >network as the general public?
> ||> >-- If Yes.  Then should the problem statement becomes:
> ||> >     "Some controlled preemption functionality is allowed for=20
> ||> >Emergency purposes in the general
> ||> >     public integrated (voice, video, data, etc) network.  This=20
> ||> >controlled preemption functionality
> ||> >     needs to be supported by the network mechanisms."
> ||> >-- If Yes.  Then we will need some guidance and help wrt the=20
> ||> >regulations of the different jurisdictions.
> ||> >     Also if the different jurisdictions even wants to use the=20
> ||> >same network infrastructure for both
> ||> >     emergency and public usage purposes.  If it is technically
> ||>possible.
> ||> >
> ||> >By this I am not saying a good solution exist or that I am
> |promoting
> ||> >a specific solution.
> ||> >I am just agreeing that this problem needs to be addressed.
> ||> >We may end up saying we can not solve this problem as of
> |yet.  But I
> ||> >wish we can solve it.
> ||> >
> ||> >Regards.
> ||> >-- Kwok --
> ||> >
> ||> >
> ||> >At 09:34 AM 9/20/2006, Shahram Davari wrote:
> ||> > >Kwok,
> ||> > >
> ||> > >Indeed you raised a good subject. The requirements for=20
> ||> > >emergency services should be part of the problem statement, and

> ||> > >be
> ||dealt with
> ||> > >in the proposed solution draft. ITU-T has quite extensive work=20
> ||> > >on the requirements for Emergency services.
> ||> > >
> ||> > >On a side note, one of the problems identified during a recent=20
> ||> > >school shooting in Canada was that the emergency and
> ||police couldn't
> ||> > >use the phone or cell phones to communicate because the
> ||network was
> ||> > >jammed due to high volume of calls between students and their
> ||>families.
> ||> > >
> ||> > >Yours,
> ||> > >Shahram
> ||> > >
> ||> > >
> ||> > > > -----Original Message-----
> ||> > > > From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
> ||> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:26 PM
> ||> > > > To: ken carlberg
> ||> > > > Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> ||> > > > Subject: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption
> |Not Allowed
> ||> >Issue.
> ||> > > > Used to be Re: [PCN] draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > Ken:
> ||> > > > Thank you for handling so many of our replies at the
> ||same time. :)
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > YES, on your point of:
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > >just to recap.  I just wanted to point out that there are=20
> ||> > > > >jurisdictions that do not allow preemption for voice
> ||>communications
> ||> > > > >used by the general public -- this definitely applies for a
> ||>number
> ||> >of
> ||> > > > >PSTNs, and I'm sure it will trickle down to certain
> ||deployments
> ||>of
> ||> > > > >VoIP.  Hence, I would recommend that the group consider=20
> ||> > > > >other
> ||>(re)
> ||> > > > >actions other than preemption....which from the
> |feedback of my
> ||> > > > >original note, seems will be done.
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > We are using the Problem-Statement draft to put out an=20
> ||> > > > initial version of what we are thinking, as this is still=20
> ||> > > > work in progress, there
> ||>definitely
> ||> > > > are area we
> ||> > > > may have missed.
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > Thank you for pointing out at least one of them.
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > I will write some additional text for -01 version of
> ||the Problem
> ||> > > > Statement draft to try
> ||> > > > and describe the problem you have indicated (but I
> ||will try NOT to
> ||> > > > indicate any solution
> ||> > > > in the Problem Statement draft).
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > And we will try to have some text in at least some of our
> ||>Deployment
> ||> > > > Model drafts
> ||> > > > to see if there are good solutions to the problem you=20
> ||> > > > indicated.  There may be more than one solution as there may

> ||> > > > be more than one
> |Deployment
> ||> >Model.
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > Please Notice I have changed the subject of the E-Mail
> ||thread for
> ||> > > > issue tracking purpose.
> ||> > > > Please use this E-Mail Subject for continuing this
discussion.
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > Now I have additional questions concerning the use of
> ||Preemption
> ||>for
> ||> > > > handling Emergency
> ||> > > > Services.  Will Preemption be allowed for Emergency
Services?
> ||> > > >  Does some of the
> ||> > > > jurisdiction you have indicated want to use a separate
> ||network for
> ||> > > > Emergency Services
> ||> > > > purpose?  Will combining Emergency Services with the normal=20
> ||> > > > VoIP calls/sessions be a good Problem Statement that we can=20
> ||> > > > add to our Problem Statement draft?
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > I am concentrating on Problem Statement instead of Solutions

> ||> > > > for now because we want to get the Problem Statement cleared

> ||> > > > away first for the BOF purpose.
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > Thanks!
> ||> > > > -- Kwok --
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > At 12:13 PM 9/19/2006, ken carlberg wrote:
> ||> > > > >Anna,
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >>>maybe we have a different perspective of
> ||preemption.  as I view
> ||> >it,
> ||> > > > >>>preemption is removing *existing* state (circuit
> |in the PSTN
> ||> > > > >>>world) in
> ||> > > > >>>favor of new state.
> ||> > > > >>
> ||> > > > >>I guess that may be one thing that needs
> ||clarification.  The way
> ||>I
> ||> > > > >>view
> ||> > > > >>it (and I think the way
> ||draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> ||> >and
> ||> > > > >>related docs view the issue) is that pre-emption
> ||should kick in
> ||> > > > >>when for
> ||> > > > >>whatever reason provisioning mechanisms fail there
> ||simply is not
> ||> > > > >>enough
> ||> > > > >>capacity to carry all calls.  Setting aside the issue of
> ||> >precedence
> ||> > > > >>for
> ||> > > > >>the moment, the expectation is that the level of
> ||traffic needed
> ||>to
> ||> > > > >>trigger premption is typicaly higher (perhaps substanially
> ||>higher)
> ||> > > > >>than
> ||> > > > >>the level triggering to stop admission of new flows.  That
> ||> > > > means that
> ||> > > > >>when preemption does get triggered, there would actually
> ||> > > > not really be
> ||> > > > >>any new state admitted.
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >I'm sorry, but with that last sentence you lost me
> ||:-)...I kind
> ||>of
> ||> > > > >understood some of the things you were saying, but
> ||there were too
> ||> > > > >many things you left out (why does one have an
> ||admission control
> ||>at
> ||> > > > >level X and a preemption level at X+N?, are you
> ||implying that the
> ||> > > > >edge is keeping track of the flows it
> ||rejects?....that would seem
> ||> > > > >quite granular in keeping measurements).
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >I'm not sure its necessary to clarify the above. =20
> |Its probably
> ||>just
> ||> > > > >best that we agree that future work should include a more
> ||>detailed
> ||> > > > >discussion of what is preemption in the context of your
> ||> >architecture.
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >>The degree of how far apart preemption and admission=20
> ||> > > > >>thresholds are is of course a mater of
> ||> > > > configuration, but I
> ||> > > > >>would expect that they would be sufficiently apart to=20
> ||> > > > >>ensure
> ||>that
> ||> > > > >>you do
> ||> > > > >>not just toggle preempted and new flows. Of course if=20
> ||> > > > >>there
> ||> > > > are higher
> ||> > > > >>precedence calls, then one might expect that a higher
> ||> > > > precedence call
> ||> > > > >>may be established while lower precedence calls may
> ||need to be
> ||> > > > >>preempted?
> ||> > > > >>
> ||> > > > >>Perhaps this expectation should be made more
> ||transparent in the
> ||> > > > >>drafts?
> ||> > > > >>
> ||> > > > >>>In the US and some other countries, this is not allowed=20
> ||> > > > >>>in the PSTN.
> ||> > > > >>
> ||> > > > >>Just wanted to make sure I understand exactly what is not
> ||>allowed.
> ||> > > > >>Are
> ||> > > > >>you saying that PSTN is not allowed to preempt a lower
> ||> > > > precedence call
> ||> > > > >>in order to establish a high recedence call?  Or are you
> ||> > > > referring to
> ||> > > > >>the same precedence levels?
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >as an example, in the US PSTN, all calls from the
> ||general public
> ||> >are
> ||> > > > >treated with the same level of precedence.  the exception=20
> ||> > > > >are
> ||> >systems
> ||> > > > >like GETS, but they simply increase the probability of call

> ||> > > > >completion -- they do not use preemption.  private
> ||systems based
> ||>on
> ||> > > > >MLPP, like Autovon in the DoD and NATO, do allow
> ||different levels
> ||> >of
> ||> > > > >priority and subsequent preemption if so needed. =20
> |rfc-4190 and
> ||> > > > >rfc-4542 provide background on these systems/services
> ||along with
> ||> > > > >discussion in the context of IP (since this is the IETF :-)
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >just to recap.  I just wanted to point out that there are=20
> ||> > > > >jurisdictions that do not allow preemption for voice
> ||>communications
> ||> > > > >used by the general public -- this definitely applies for a
> ||>number
> ||> >of
> ||> > > > >PSTNs, and I'm sure it will trickle down to certain
> ||deployments
> ||>of
> ||> > > > >VoIP.  Hence, I would recommend that the group consider=20
> ||> > > > >other
> ||>(re)
> ||> > > > >actions other than preemption....which from the
> |feedback of my
> ||> > > > >original note, seems will be done.
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >regards,
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >-ken
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >
> ||> > > > >_______________________________________________
> ||> > > > >PCN mailing list
> ||> > > > >PCN@ietf.org
> ||> > > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > >
> ||> > > > _______________________________________________
> ||> > > > PCN mailing list
> ||> > > > PCN@ietf.org
> ||> > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> ||> > > >
> ||> >
> ||> >
> ||> >_______________________________________________
> ||> >PCN mailing list
> ||> >PCN@ietf.org
> ||> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> ||
> ||
> ||_______________________________________________
> ||PCN mailing list
> ||PCN@ietf.org
> ||https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> ||
> |
> |_______________________________________________
> |PCN mailing list
> |PCN@ietf.org
> |https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> |
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>  =20

--
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science Am Hubland,
D-97074
Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 02 10:52:07 2006
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	Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:51:41 +0200 (MEST)
From: "Georgios Karagiannis" <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
To: "'Kwok-Ho Chan'" <khchan@nortel.com>, <philip.eardley@bt.com>
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:51:32 +0200
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Hi Kwock
 
What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
 
Best Regards,
Georgios
 
 

  _____  

From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com] 
Sent: maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term


Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:



A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to regulations.
Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the
need to reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the
network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?


How about the terms of:
"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Admissible Rate"
and 
"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Supportable Rate" ?

It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when the
rate of traffic is
not "Supportable" anymore.  With Preemption being one of the possible policy
decision actions.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:


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Thought I'd try to close a

few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"

listed at

 <http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt> 

http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt




 




A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue




Should the region running

the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or

PCN-Domain?


 Reference:

draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section

2.1.


 RFC2998 supports use

of Region, RFC2474 supports use of

Domain.


Personally I don't mind,

happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in

draft-chan-problem-statement.




 




A2      "PIN Term" Issue




Should we use the

terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node

(function)?


 Reference:

draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section

2.1.


 RFC2475 supports use

of PCN Interior

Node


Personally I slightly

prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick

with PCN Interior Node as currently used in

draft-chan-problem-statement


 


 




A3      "PEN Term"

Issue


Should we use the

terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN

Border Node or PCN Gateway Node

(function)?


 Reference:

draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section

2.1.


 The term currently

used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End

Node


 


Personally I don't like the

term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened to

end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will get

confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the

deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big picture'

of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End

Nodes. 


 


I also think PCN Gateway

Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node

where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's

gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end host,

if the PCN-region extends out that far.




 


PCN Boundary Node would be

consistent with rfc2474

terminology.


PCN Border Node is a

similar possibility that Michael has suggested.




 


PCN Edge Node allows us to

continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in' the

PCN-region. 


 


I favour PCN Edge Node, and

also ok with PCN Boundary / Border

Node


 
 
A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to regulations.
Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the
need to reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the
network?
Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
 
Best wishes
phil
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


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	charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Kwock</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>What about using the term </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>"severe=20
congestion marking"?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Best Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Georgios</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN =
class=3D541025014-02102006></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D541025014-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Kwok-Ho Chan =
[mailto:khchan@nortel.com]=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43<BR><B>To:</B>=20
philip.eardley@bt.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> pcn@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[PCN]=20
Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><FONT face=3D"Courier, =
Courier"=20
  size=3D2>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking term&#8221;=20
  Issue<BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3D"Courier, Courier" =
size=3D2>Pre-emption Marking=20
  may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing =
flows/sessions to=20
  allow additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This =
scenario is not=20
  allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term =
be used=20
  instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the =
offered=20
  traffic load to the congested portions of the =
network?<BR></FONT><BR><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>Michael suggested &#8220;excess =
traffic mark&#8221; &#8211; what=20
  do you reckon?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How about the terms =
of:<BR>"Admissible=20
Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the "Admissible=20
Rate"<BR>and <BR>"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication =
of=20
exceeding the "Supportable Rate" ?<BR><BR>It is then up to the Policy =
Decision=20
to take the appropriate action when the rate of traffic is<BR>not =
"Supportable"=20
anymore.&nbsp; With Preemption being one of the possible policy decision =

actions.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR>-- Kwok --<BR><BR>At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006,=20
philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">Content-class:=20
  urn:content-classes:message<BR>Content-Type:=20
  =
multipart/alternative;<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;</X-TAB>=20
  =
boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"<BR><BR><BR><PRE><FON=
T face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Thought I&#8217;d try to close =
a
few more of the Issues &#8211; covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology =
Issues&#8221;
listed at
<A =
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</A>
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>
A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PCN-Region Term" Issue
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should the region running
the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2998 supports use
of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
Domain.</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Personally I don&#8217;t mind,
happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement.
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>
A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PIN Term" Issue
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should we use the
terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2475 supports use
of PCN Interior
Node</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Personally I slightly
prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to =
stick
with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>
A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PEN Term"
Issue</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Should we use the
terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
(function)?</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;The term currently
used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
Node</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I don&#8217;t like the
term PCN End Node &#8211; the problem is that it will probably get =
shortened to
end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will =
get
confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means &#8216;end host&#8217;; =
[2] the
deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the &#8216;big =
picture&#8217;
of end-to-end QoS, in which case we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; =
PCN End
Nodes. </FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>I also think PCN Gateway
Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
where the &#8220;PCN End Node&#8221; function sits is typically the =
PCN-region&#8217;s
gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end host,
if the PCN-region extends out that far.
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Boundary Node would be
consistent with rfc2474
terminology.</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>PCN Border Node is a
similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Edge Node allows us to
continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of &#8216;penning =
in&#8217; the
PCN-region. </FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>I favour PCN Edge Node, and
also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
Node</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier, Courier" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier, Courier"=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;<BR>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking =
term&#8221;=20
  Issue<BR>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
  pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new =
flows/sessions to=20
  be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to =

  regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption =
Marking=20
  to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the =
congested=20
  portions of the network?<BR>Michael suggested &#8220;excess traffic =
mark&#8221; &#8211; what do=20
  you reckon?<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Best=20
  =
wishes<BR>phil<BR></FONT>_______________________________________________<=
BR>PCN=20
  mailing list<BR>PCN@ietf.org<BR><A=20
  href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn"=20
  =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</A></BLOCKQ=
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I like "Admissible Rate Marking" & "Admissible Rate" or maybe
"configured-admissible-rate" also seem nice to me.=20

=20

I'm not so sure about "Supportable Rate Marking" & "Supportable Rate".=20

As well as the "Admissible Rate" there are 2 other rates associated with
a link

-         the rate at which pkts are Pre-emption Marked (to use the
current terminology!)

-          the rate at which pkts are dropped, ie the line rate.=20

=20

To me, "Supportable Rate" suggests the latter rather than the former.
Maybe this is just me. Will try and think of something else.

=20

phil

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]=20
Sent: 02 October 2006 15:43
To: Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term

=20

Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:




A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.  Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?


How about the terms of:
"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Admissible Rate"
and=20
"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Supportable Rate" ?

It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when
the rate of traffic is
not "Supportable" anymore.  With Preemption being one of the possible
policy decision actions.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:



Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
         boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"



Thought I'd try to close a
few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
listed at
<http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt>=20
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt

=20

=20

=20

=20
A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue

=20

Should the region running
the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?

=20

 Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.

=20

 RFC2998 supports use
of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
Domain.

=20

Personally I don't mind,
happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement.

=20

=20

=20

=20
A2      "PIN Term" Issue

=20

Should we use the
terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?

=20

 Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.

=20

 RFC2475 supports use
of PCN Interior
Node

=20

Personally I slightly
prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20
A3      "PEN Term"
Issue

=20

Should we use the
terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
(function)?

=20

 Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.

=20

 The term currently
used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
Node

=20

=20

=20

Personally I don't like the
term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened
to
end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
get
confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big picture'
of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
Nodes.=20

=20

=20

=20

I also think PCN Gateway
Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end host,
if the PCN-region extends out that far.

=20

=20

=20

PCN Boundary Node would be
consistent with rfc2474
terminology.

=20

PCN Border Node is a
similar possibility that Michael has suggested.

=20

=20

=20

PCN Edge Node allows us to
continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in' the
PCN-region.=20

=20

=20

=20

I favour PCN Edge Node, and
also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
Node

=20

=20

=20
A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.  Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?
Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
=20
Best wishes
phil
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I like =
</span></font>&quot;Admissible Rate
Marking&quot; &amp; &quot;Admissible Rate&quot; or maybe =
&#8220;configured-admissible-rate&#8221;
also seem nice to me. </p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I&#8217;m not so sure about &quot;Supportable Rate Marking&quot; =
&amp; &#8220;Supportable
Rate&#8221;. </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>As well as the &quot;Admissible Rate&quot; there are 2 other =
rates
associated with a link</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-<font =
size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></font>the rate at which pkts are Pre-emption =
Marked (to
use the current terminology!)</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>-<font
size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></font>the rate at which pkts are dropped, ie the =
line
rate. </p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>To me, &#8220;Supportable Rate&#8221; suggests the latter rather =
than
the former. Maybe this is just me. Will try and think of something =
else.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>phil</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Kwok-Ho Chan
[mailto:khchan@nortel.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 02 October 2006 =
15:43<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [PCN] Issue =
A4
Preemption Marking Term</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking
term&#8221; Issue<br>
</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Pre-emption
Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing =
flows/sessions
to allow additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This =
scenario is
not allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better =
term be
used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the =
offered
traffic load to the congested portions of the network?<br>
</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Michael
suggested &#8220;excess traffic mark&#8221; &#8211; what do you =
reckon?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
How about the terms of:<br>
&quot;Admissible Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of =
exceeding the
&quot;Admissible Rate&quot;<br>
and <br>
&quot;Supportable Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of =
exceeding
the &quot;Supportable Rate&quot; ?<br>
<br>
It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when =
the
rate of traffic is<br>
not &quot;Supportable&quot; anymore.&nbsp; With Preemption being one of =
the
possible policy decision actions.<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
-- Kwok --<br>
<br>
At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Content-class:
urn:content-classes:message<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>
boundary=3D&quot;----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF&quot;<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thought I&#8217;d try to close =
a</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>few more =
of the Issues &#8211; covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology =
Issues&#8221;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>listed =
at</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt"></a></span></font></pre><pre><span
class=3DMsoHyperlink><u><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</=
a></span></font></u></span></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;PCN-Region Term&quot; Issue</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should the region =
running</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>the PCN =
mechanism be called the PCN-Region or</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN-Domain?</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;Reference:</span></font></pre><pre><font=

size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt =
section</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>2.1.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;RFC2998 supports =
use</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>of =
Region, RFC2474 supports use of</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Domain.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t =
mind,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>happy to =
stick with PCN-region as currently used in</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement.</span></font></p=
re>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PIN =
Term&quot; Issue</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we use =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN =
Intermediate Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(function)?</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;Reference:</span></font></pre><pre><font=

size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt =
section</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>2.1.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;RFC2475 supports =
use</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>of PCN =
Interior</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I =
slightly</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>prefer =
PCN Interior Node, though I don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to =
stick</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>with PCN =
Interior Node as currently used in</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement</span></font></pr=
e>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PEN =
Term&quot;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Issue</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we use =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or =
PCN Boundary Node or PCN</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Border =
Node or PCN Gateway Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(function)?</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;Reference:</span></font></pre><pre><font=

size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt =
section</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>2.1.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;The term =
currently</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t like =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>term PCN =
End Node &#8211; the problem is that it will probably get shortened =
to</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>end node =
(already seen this happening on the list). I think this will =
get</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>confusing =
as [1] the innocent may think it means &#8216;end host&#8217;; [2] =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>deployment models will probably show how PCN =
fits into the &#8216;big picture&#8217;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>of =
end-to-end QoS, in which case we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; PCN =
End</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Nodes. =
</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I also think PCN =
Gateway</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node =
(function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical =
node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>where the =
&#8220;PCN End Node&#8221; function sits is typically the =
PCN-region&#8217;s</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>gateway =
node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end =
host,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>if the =
PCN-region extends out that far.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Boundary Node would =
be</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>consistent with =
rfc2474</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>terminology.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Border Node is =
a</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>similar =
possibility that Michael has suggested.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Edge Node allows us =
to</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>continue =
to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of &#8216;penning in&#8217; =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN-region. </span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I favour PCN Edge Node, =
and</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>also ok =
with PCN Boundary / Border</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;<br>
A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking term&#8221; Issue<br>
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be =
admitted.&nbsp;
This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; =
Should a
better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need =
to
reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the =
network?<br>
Michael suggested &#8220;excess traffic mark&#8221; &#8211; what do you =
reckon?<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Best wishes<br>
phil<br>
</span></font>_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
PCN@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" =
eudora=3Dautourl>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></p>

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Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
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Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is that
action is taken so the link should never be congested.=20

=20

Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]=20
Sent: 02 October 2006 15:52
To: 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term

=20

Hi Kwock

=20

What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?

=20

Best Regards,

Georgios

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]=20
Sent: maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term

Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:




A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.  Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?


How about the terms of:
"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Admissible Rate"
and=20
"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Supportable Rate" ?

It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when
the rate of traffic is
not "Supportable" anymore.  With Preemption being one of the possible
policy decision actions.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:



Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
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Thought I'd try to close a
few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
listed at
<http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt>=20
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt

=20

=20

=20

=20
A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue

=20

Should the region running
the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?

=20

 Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.

=20

 RFC2998 supports use
of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
Domain.

=20

Personally I don't mind,
happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement.

=20

=20

=20

=20
A2      "PIN Term" Issue

=20

Should we use the
terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?

=20

 Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.

=20

 RFC2475 supports use
of PCN Interior
Node

=20

Personally I slightly
prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20
A3      "PEN Term"
Issue

=20

Should we use the
terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
(function)?

=20

 Reference:
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
2.1.

=20

 The term currently
used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
Node

=20

=20

=20

Personally I don't like the
term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened
to
end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
get
confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big picture'
of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
Nodes.=20

=20

=20

=20

I also think PCN Gateway
Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end host,
if the PCN-region extends out that far.

=20

=20

=20

PCN Boundary Node would be
consistent with rfc2474
terminology.

=20

PCN Border Node is a
similar possibility that Michael has suggested.

=20

=20

=20

PCN Edge Node allows us to
continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in' the
PCN-region.=20

=20

=20

=20

I favour PCN Edge Node, and
also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
Node

=20

=20

=20
A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.  Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?
Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
=20
Best wishes
phil
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Not sure I like this, as the idea =
of this
(pre-emption) marking is that action is taken so the link should never =
be
congested. </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps &#8220;severe =
pre-congestion
marking&#8221;?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Georgios =
Karagiannis
[mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 02 October 2006 =
15:52<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Kwok-Ho Chan';
Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [PCN] Issue =
A4
Preemption Marking Term</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Kwock</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>What about using the term =
&quot;severe
congestion marking&quot;?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Best Regards,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Georgios</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> maandag 2 oktober =
2006 16:43<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
philip.eardley@bt.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [PCN] Issue =
A4
Preemption Marking Term</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking
term&#8221; Issue<br>
</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Pre-emption
Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing
flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be =
admitted.&nbsp;
This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; =
Should a
better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need =
to
reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the =
network?<br>
</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Michael
suggested &#8220;excess traffic mark&#8221; &#8211; what do you =
reckon?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
How about the terms of:<br>
&quot;Admissible Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of =
exceeding the
&quot;Admissible Rate&quot;<br>
and <br>
&quot;Supportable Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of =
exceeding
the &quot;Supportable Rate&quot; ?<br>
<br>
It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when =
the
rate of traffic is<br>
not &quot;Supportable&quot; anymore.&nbsp; With Preemption being one of =
the
possible policy decision actions.<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
-- Kwok --<br>
<br>
At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

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<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thought I&#8217;d try to close =
a</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>few more =
of the Issues &#8211; covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology =
Issues&#8221;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>listed =
at</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt"></a></span></font></pre><pre><span
class=3DMsoHyperlink><u><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</=
a></span></font></u></span></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;PCN-Region Term&quot; Issue</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should the region =
running</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>the PCN =
mechanism be called the PCN-Region or</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN-Domain?</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;Reference:</span></font></pre><pre><font=

size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt =
section</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>2.1.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;RFC2998 supports =
use</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>of =
Region, RFC2474 supports use of</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Domain.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t =
mind,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>happy to =
stick with PCN-region as currently used in</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement.</span></font></p=
re>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PIN =
Term&quot; Issue</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we use =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN =
Intermediate Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(function)?</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;Reference:</span></font></pre><pre><font=

size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt =
section</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>2.1.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;RFC2475 supports =
use</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>of PCN =
Interior</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I =
slightly</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>prefer =
PCN Interior Node, though I don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to =
stick</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>with PCN =
Interior Node as currently used in</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement</span></font></pr=
e>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PEN =
Term&quot;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Issue</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we use =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or =
PCN Boundary Node or PCN</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Border =
Node or PCN Gateway Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(function)?</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;Reference:</span></font></pre><pre><font=

size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt =
section</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>2.1.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;The term =
currently</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t like =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>term PCN =
End Node &#8211; the problem is that it will probably get shortened =
to</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>end node =
(already seen this happening on the list). I think this will =
get</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>confusing =
as [1] the innocent may think it means &#8216;end host&#8217;; [2] =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>deployment models will probably show how PCN =
fits into the &#8216;big picture&#8217;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>of =
end-to-end QoS, in which case we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; PCN =
End</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Nodes. =
</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I also think PCN =
Gateway</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node =
(function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical =
node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>where the =
&#8220;PCN End Node&#8221; function sits is typically the =
PCN-region&#8217;s</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>gateway =
node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end =
host,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>if the =
PCN-region extends out that far.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Boundary Node would =
be</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>consistent with =
rfc2474</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>terminology.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Border Node is =
a</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>similar =
possibility that Michael has suggested.</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Edge Node allows us =
to</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>continue =
to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of &#8216;penning in&#8217; =
the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN-region. </span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I favour PCN Edge Node, =
and</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>also ok =
with PCN Boundary / Border</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Node</span></font></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;<br>
A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking term&#8221; Issue<br>
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to =
regulations.&nbsp;
Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate =
the
need to reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the
network?<br>
Michael suggested &#8220;excess traffic mark&#8221; &#8211; what do you =
reckon?<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Best wishes<br>
phil<br>
</span></font>_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
PCN@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" =
eudora=3Dautourl>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></p>

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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 02 11:13:17 2006
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:12:42 -0400
To: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" <khchan@nortel.com>
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
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Georgios:
I agree with Phil:  that the use of "servere=20
congestion marking" will not be appropriate as Phil indicated.
Lets see if there are more suggestions and let=20
all of us to allow some of these ideas to sink in a bit.
-- Kwok --

At 11:01 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>Not sure I like this, as the idea of this=20
>(pre-emption) marking is that action is taken so=20
>the link should never be congested.
>
>Perhaps =93severe pre-congestion marking=94?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
>Sent: 02 October 2006 15:52
>To: 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
>Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>
>Hi Kwock
>
>What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>
>Best Regards,
>Georgios
>
>
>
>
>----------
>From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>Sent: maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
>To: philip.eardley@bt.com
>Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>
>
>A4    =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue
>
>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the=20
>requirement of pre-empting existing=20
>flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
>flows/sessions to be admitted.  This scenario is=20
>not allowed in some markets due to=20
>regulations.  Should a better term be used=20
>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the=20
>need to reduce the offered traffic load to the=20
>congested portions of the network?
>
>Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?
>
>How about the terms of:
>"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking=20
>indication of exceeding the "Admissible Rate"
>and
>"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking=20
>indication of exceeding the "Supportable Rate" ?
>
>It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the=20
>appropriate action when the rate of traffic is
>not "Supportable" anymore.  With Preemption=20
>being one of the possible policy decision actions.
>
>Thanks!
>-- Kwok --
>
>At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>         boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>
>
>Thought I=92d try to close a
>few more of the Issues =96 covering the Issues =93A. Terminology Issues=94
>listed at
>
>
><http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt>http:/=
/standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt=20
>
>
>
>
>
>A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>
>Should the region running
>the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
>PCN-Domain?
>
>  Reference:
>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>2.1.
>
>  RFC2998 supports use
>of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
>Domain.
>
>Personally I don=92t mind,
>happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
>draft-chan-problem-statement.
>
>
>
>
>A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>
>Should we use the
>terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
>(function)?
>
>  Reference:
>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>2.1.
>
>  RFC2475 supports use
>of PCN Interior
>Node
>
>Personally I slightly
>prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don=92t mind much. So happy to stick
>with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
>draft-chan-problem-statement
>
>
>
>
>
>
>A3      "PEN Term"
>Issue
>
>Should we use the
>terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
>Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
>(function)?
>
>  Reference:
>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>2.1.
>
>  The term currently
>used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
>Node
>
>
>
>Personally I don=92t like the
>term PCN End Node =96 the problem is that it will probably get shortened to
>end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will get
>confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means =91end host=92; [2] the
>deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the =91big picture=
=92
>of end-to-end QoS, in which case we=92d have both end hosts & PCN End
>Nodes.
>
>
>
>I also think PCN Gateway
>Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
>where the =93PCN End Node=94 function sits is typically the PCN-region=92s
>gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end host,
>if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>
>
>
>PCN Boundary Node would be
>consistent with rfc2474
>terminology.
>
>PCN Border Node is a
>similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>
>
>
>PCN Edge Node allows us to
>continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of =91penning in=92 the
>PCN-region.
>
>
>
>I favour PCN Edge Node, and
>also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
>Node
>
>
>A4    =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue
>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the=20
>requirement of pre-empting existing=20
>flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
>flows/sessions to be admitted.  This scenario is=20
>not allowed in some markets due to=20
>regulations.  Should a better term be used=20
>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the=20
>need to reduce the offered traffic load to the=20
>congested portions of the network?
>Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?
>
>Best wishes
>phil
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

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Georgios:<br>
I agree with Phil:&nbsp; that the use of &quot;servere congestion
marking&quot; will not be appropriate as Phil indicated.<br>
Lets see if there are more suggestions and let all of us to allow some of
these ideas to sink in a bit.<br>
-- Kwok --<br>
&nbsp;<br>
At 11:01 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0000=
80">Not
sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is that
action is taken so the link should never be congested. <br>
&nbsp;<br>
Perhaps =93severe pre-congestion marking=94?<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</font><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> Georgios Karagiannis
[<a href=3D"mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl" eudora=3D"autourl">
mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 October 2006 15:52<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term<br>
</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Hi Kwock<br>
</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">What about using the term
&quot;severe congestion marking&quot;?<br>
</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Best Regards,<br>
Georgios<br>
</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<hr>
<div align=3D"center"></font></div>
<font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D2><b>From:</b> Kwok-Ho Chan
[<a href=3D"mailto:khchan@nortel.com" eudora=3D"autourl">
mailto:khchan@nortel.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43<br>
<b>To:</b> philip.eardley@bt.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term<br>
</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">Some other suggestions related
to Issue A4 of:<br><br>
<br>
</font><font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
=93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>Pre-emption Marking may seem to
indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow
additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not
allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be
used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the
offered traffic load to the congested portions of the network?<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>Michael suggested =93excess traffic
mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?<br>
</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times"><br>
How about the terms of:<br>
&quot;Admissible Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of
exceeding the &quot;Admissible Rate&quot;<br>
and <br>
&quot;Supportable Rate Marking&quot; for the marking indication of
exceeding the &quot;Supportable Rate&quot; ?<br><br>
It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when
the rate of traffic is<br>
not &quot;Supportable&quot; anymore.&nbsp; With Preemption being one of
the possible policy decision actions.<br><br>
Thanks!<br>
-- Kwok --<br><br>
At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br><br>
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>
boundary=3D&quot;----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF&quot;<br><br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Thought I=92d try to close
a</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>few more of the Issues =96
covering the Issues =93A. Terminology
Issues=94</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>listed
at</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"><br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">
<a href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</a>
</u></font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PCN-Region Term&quot;
Issue</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should the region
running</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>the PCN mechanism be calle=
d
the PCN-Region
or</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN-Domain?</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:</font>
</pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt
section</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>2.1.</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2998 supports
use</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>of Region, RFC2474 support=
s
use of</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Domain.</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I don=92t
mind,</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>happy to stick with
PCN-region as currently used
in</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement.</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PIN Term&quot;
Issue</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should we use
the</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>terminology PCN Interior
Node or PCN Intermediate
Node</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>(function)?</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:</font>
</pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt
section</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>2.1.</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2475 supports
use</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>of PCN
Interior</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Node</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I
slightly</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>prefer PCN Interior Node,
though I don=92t mind much. So happy to
stick</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>with PCN Interior Node as
currently used
in</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PEN
Term&quot;</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Issue</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should we use
the</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>terminology PCN End Node o=
r
PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or
PCN</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Border Node or PCN Gateway
Node</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>(function)?</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:</font>
</pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt
section</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>2.1.</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;The term
currently</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>used in
draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN
End</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Node</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I don=92t like
the</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>term PCN End Node =96 the
problem is that it will probably get shortened
to</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>end node (already seen thi=
s
happening on the list). I think this will
get</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>confusing as [1] the
innocent may think it means =91end host=92; [2]
the</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>deployment models will
probably show how PCN fits into the =91big
picture=92</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>of end-to-end QoS, in whic=
h
case we=92d have both end hosts &amp; PCN
End</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Nodes.
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>I also think PCN
Gateway</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Node (function) could be
slightly confusing. The actual physical
node</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>where the =93PCN End Node=
=94
function sits is typically the
PCN-region=92s</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>gateway node, but it could
in some deployment situations be an end
host,</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>if the PCN-region extends
out that
far.</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Boundary Node would
be</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>consistent with
rfc2474</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>terminology.</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Border Node is
a</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>similar possibility that
Michael has
suggested.</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Edge Node allows us
to</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>continue to use the nice
acronym PEN, with its hint of =91penning in=92
the</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN-region.
</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>I favour PCN Edge Node,
and</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>also ok with PCN Boundary =
/
Border</font></pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Node</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<pre><font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</font></pre>
<font face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></font>
<font face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;<br>
A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue<br>
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?<br>
Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Best wishes<br>
phil<br>
</font>_______________________________________________<br>
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:21:05 +0200
From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
Organization: University of Wuerzburg
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To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
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Hi,

what do you think about the terms

* admissible link rate and "admission stop marking" using an admission=20
stop bit
* tolerable link rate and "excess traffic marking" using an excess=20
traffic bit
* supportED link rate (now =3D physical or virtual link rate used for=20
interface traffic shaping (Phil), but I'm not sure whether this=20
expression is required at all: maybe just link rate?)

Admission control is a requirement in our context, but preemption is=20
just an option when the tolerable link rate is exceeded (I think I read=20
that somewhere). Therefore, I don't like the term "preemption marking"=20
since this suggests preemption as mandatory. IF preemption is a=20
mandatory feature, the term preemption marking is fine.

Regards,

Michael

philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
> Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is=20
> that action is taken so the link should never be congested.
>
> Perhaps =93severe pre-congestion marking=94?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
> *Sent:* 02 October 2006 15:52
> *To:* 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>
> Hi Kwock
>
> What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Georgios
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>
> *From:* Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
> *Sent:* maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
> *To:* philip.eardley@bt.com
> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>
> Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>
>
> A4 =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue
>
> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some=20
> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of=20
> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic=20
> load to the congested portions of the network?
>
> Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?
>
>
> How about the terms of:
> "Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the=20
> "Admissible Rate"
> and
> "Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the=20
> "Supportable Rate" ?
>
> It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action=20
> when the rate of traffic is
> not "Supportable" anymore. With Preemption being one of the possible=20
> policy decision actions.
>
> Thanks!
> -- Kwok --
>
> At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>
> Thought I=92d try to close a
> few more of the Issues =96 covering the Issues =93A. Terminology Issues=
=94
> listed at
> _http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt_
>
> =20
>
> =20
> A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>
> Should the region running
> the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
> PCN-Domain?
>
>  Reference:
> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
> 2.1.
>
>  RFC2998 supports use
> of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
> Domain.
>
> Personally I don=92t mind,
> happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
> draft-chan-problem-statement.
>
> =20
>
> =20
> A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>
> Should we use the
> terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
> (function)?
>
>  Reference:
> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
> 2.1.
>
>  RFC2475 supports use
> of PCN Interior
> Node
>
> Personally I slightly
> prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don=92t mind much. So happy to stick
> with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
> draft-chan-problem-statement
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
> A3      "PEN Term"
> Issue
>
> Should we use the
> terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
> Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
> (function)?
>
>  Reference:
> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
> 2.1.
>
>  The term currently
> used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
> Node
>
> =20
>
> Personally I don=92t like the
> term PCN End Node =96 the problem is that it will probably get shortene=
d to
> end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will g=
et
> confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means =91end host=92; [2] th=
e
> deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the =91big pictu=
re=92
> of end-to-end QoS, in which case we=92d have both end hosts & PCN End
> Nodes.=20
>
> =20
>
> I also think PCN Gateway
> Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
> where the =93PCN End Node=94 function sits is typically the PCN-region=92=
s
> gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end host=
,
> if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>
> =20
>
> PCN Boundary Node would be
> consistent with rfc2474
> terminology.
>
> PCN Border Node is a
> similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>
> =20
>
> PCN Edge Node allows us to
> continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of =91penning in=92=
 the
> PCN-region.=20
>
> =20
>
> I favour PCN Edge Node, and
> also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
> Node
>
> =20
>
>
> A4 =93Pre-emption Marking term=94 Issue
> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some=20
> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of=20
> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic=20
> load to the congested portions of the network?
> Michael suggested =93excess traffic mark=94 =96 what do you reckon?
>
> Best wishes
> phil
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 02 11:30:29 2006
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From: "Georgios Karagiannis" <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
To: "'Kwok-Ho Chan'" <khchan@nortel.com>, <philip.eardley@bt.com>
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:30:10 +0200
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Hi Kwok 
 
yes I agree with your proposal!
Best regards,
Georgios
 

  _____  

From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com] 
Sent: maandag 2 oktober 2006 17:13
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: karagian@cs.utwente.nl; Kwok-Ho Chan; pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term


Georgios:
I agree with Phil:  that the use of "servere congestion marking" will not be
appropriate as Phil indicated.
Lets see if there are more suggestions and let all of us to allow some of
these ideas to sink in a bit.
-- Kwok --
 
At 11:01 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:


Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is that
action is taken so the link should never be congested. 
 
Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Georgios Karagiannis [  <mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl] 
Sent: 02 October 2006 15:52
To: 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
 
Hi Kwock
 
What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
 
Best Regards,
Georgios
 
 
 

  _____  

From: Kwok-Ho Chan [  <mailto:khchan@nortel.com> mailto:khchan@nortel.com] 
Sent: maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:


A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to regulations.
Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the
need to reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the
network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?

How about the terms of:
"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Admissible Rate"
and 
"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
"Supportable Rate" ?

It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when the
rate of traffic is
not "Supportable" anymore.  With Preemption being one of the possible policy
decision actions.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:

Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
         boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"



Thought I'd try to close

a


few more of the Issues -

covering the Issues "A. Terminology

Issues"


listed

at






 <http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt> 

http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt


 


 
 


 




A1      "PCN-Region Term"

Issue
 


Should the region

running


the PCN mechanism be called

the PCN-Region

or


PCN-Domain?
 


 Reference:




draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt

section


2.1.
 


 RFC2998 supports

use


of Region, RFC2474 supports

use of


Domain.
 


Personally I don't

mind,


happy to stick with

PCN-region as currently used

in




draft-chan-problem-statement.
 


 
 


 




A2      "PIN Term"

Issue
 


Should we use

the


terminology PCN Interior

Node or PCN Intermediate

Node


(function)?
 


 Reference:




draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt

section


2.1.
 


 RFC2475 supports

use


of PCN

Interior


Node
 


Personally I

slightly


prefer PCN Interior Node,

though I don't mind much. So happy to

stick


with PCN Interior Node as

currently used

in




draft-chan-problem-statement
 


 
 


 
 


 




A3      "PEN

Term"


Issue
 


Should we use

the


terminology PCN End Node or

PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or

PCN


Border Node or PCN Gateway

Node


(function)?
 


 Reference:




draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt

section


2.1.
 


 The term

currently


used in

draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN

End


Node
 


 
 


Personally I don't like

the


term PCN End Node - the

problem is that it will probably get shortened

to


end node (already seen this

happening on the list). I think this will

get


confusing as [1] the

innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2]

the


deployment models will

probably show how PCN fits into the 'big

picture'


of end-to-end QoS, in which

case we'd have both end hosts & PCN

End


Nodes.


 


 
 


I also think PCN

Gateway


Node (function) could be

slightly confusing. The actual physical

node


where the "PCN End Node"

function sits is typically the

PCN-region's


gateway node, but it could

in some deployment situations be an end

host,


if the PCN-region extends

out that

far.
 


 
 


PCN Boundary Node would

be


consistent with

rfc2474


terminology.
 


PCN Border Node is

a


similar possibility that

Michael has

suggested.
 


 
 


PCN Edge Node allows us

to


continue to use the nice

acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in'

the


PCN-region.


 


 
 


I favour PCN Edge Node,

and


also ok with PCN Boundary /

Border


Node
 


 
 
A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to regulations.
Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the
need to reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the
network?
Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
 
Best wishes
phil
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D738312915-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Kwok </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D738312915-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D738312915-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>yes I agree with your =
proposal!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D738312915-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Best regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D738312915-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Georgios</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D738312915-02102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Kwok-Ho Chan =
[mailto:khchan@nortel.com]=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> maandag 2 oktober 2006 17:13<BR><B>To:</B>=20
philip.eardley@bt.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> karagian@cs.utwente.nl; Kwok-Ho =
Chan;=20
pcn@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking=20
Term<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Georgios:<BR>I agree with Phil:&nbsp; that the use of =
"servere=20
congestion marking" will not be appropriate as Phil indicated.<BR>Lets =
see if=20
there are more suggestions and let all of us to allow some of these =
ideas to=20
sink in a bit.<BR>-- Kwok --<BR>&nbsp;<BR>At 11:01 AM 10/2/2006,=20
philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><FONT color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2>Not sure=20
  I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is that action =
is taken=20
  so the link should never be congested. <BR>&nbsp;<BR>Perhaps =
&#8220;severe=20
  pre-congestion marking&#8221;?<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Georgios =
Karagiannis [<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl" eudora=3D"autourl">=20
  mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 02 October 2006=20
  15:52<BR><B>To:</B> 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 =
R<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
  pcn@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking=20
  Term<BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman, =
Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Kwock<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>What=20
  about using the term "severe congestion marking"?<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Best=20
  Regards,<BR>Georgios<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>
  <HR>

  <DIV align=3Dcenter></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><B>From:</B> Kwok-Ho=20
  Chan [<A href=3D"mailto:khchan@nortel.com" eudora=3D"autourl">=20
  mailto:khchan@nortel.com</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> maandag 2 oktober 2006=20
  16:43<BR><B>To:</B> philip.eardley@bt.com<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
  pcn@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking=20
  Term<BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">Some other =
suggestions=20
  related to Issue A4 of:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier, =
Courier"=20
  size=3D2>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking term&#8221;=20
  Issue<BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3D"Courier, Courier" =
size=3D2>Pre-emption Marking=20
  may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing =
flows/sessions to=20
  allow additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This =
scenario is not=20
  allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term =
be used=20
  instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the =
offered=20
  traffic load to the congested portions of the =
network?<BR></FONT><BR><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>Michael suggested &#8220;excess =
traffic mark&#8221; &#8211; what=20
  do you reckon?<BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman, Times"><BR>How =
about the=20
  terms of:<BR>"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of =
exceeding=20
  the "Admissible Rate"<BR>and <BR>"Supportable Rate Marking" for the =
marking=20
  indication of exceeding the "Supportable Rate" ?<BR><BR>It is then up =
to the=20
  Policy Decision to take the appropriate action when the rate of =
traffic=20
  is<BR>not "Supportable" anymore.&nbsp; With Preemption being one of =
the=20
  possible policy decision actions.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR>-- Kwok =
--<BR><BR>At 10:09=20
  AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<BR><BR>Content-class:=20
  urn:content-classes:message<BR>Content-Type:=20
  =
multipart/alternative;<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;</X-TAB>=20
  =
boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"<BR><BR></FONT><BR><P=
RE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Thought I&#8217;d try to =
close
a</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>few more of the Issues &#8211;
covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology
Issues&#8221;</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>listed
at</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"><BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
<A =
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</A>
</U></FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>
A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PCN-Region Term"
Issue</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should the region
running</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>the PCN mechanism be called
the PCN-Region
or</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN-Domain?</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:</FONT>
</PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt
section</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>2.1.</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2998 supports
use</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>of =
Region, RFC2474 supports
use of</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Domain.</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I don&#8217;t
mind,</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>happy to stick with
PCN-region as currently used
in</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement.</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>
A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PIN Term"
Issue</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should we use
the</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>terminology PCN Interior
Node or PCN Intermediate
Node</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>(function)?</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:</FONT>
</PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt
section</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>2.1.</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;RFC2475 supports
use</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>of =
PCN
Interior</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Node</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I
slightly</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>prefer PCN Interior Node,
though I don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to
stick</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>with PCN Interior Node as
currently used
in</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New, Courier" size=3D2>
A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PEN
Term"</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Issue</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Should we use
the</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>terminology PCN End Node or
PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or
PCN</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Border Node or PCN Gateway
Node</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>(function)?</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;Reference:</FONT>
</PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt
section</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>2.1.</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;The term
currently</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>used in
draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN
End</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Node</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>Personally I don&#8217;t like
the</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>term PCN End Node &#8211; the
problem is that it will probably get shortened
to</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>end node (already seen this
happening on the list). I think this will
get</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>confusing as [1] the
innocent may think it means &#8216;end host&#8217;; [2]
the</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>deployment models will
probably show how PCN fits into the &#8216;big
picture&#8217;</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>of =
end-to-end QoS, in which
case we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; PCN
End</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Nodes.
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>I also think PCN
Gateway</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Node (function) could be
slightly confusing. The actual physical
node</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>where the &#8220;PCN End Node&#8221;
function sits is typically the
PCN-region&#8217;s</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>gateway node, but it could
in some deployment situations be an end
host,</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>if =
the PCN-region extends
out that
far.</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Boundary Node would
be</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>consistent with
rfc2474</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>terminology.</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Border Node is
a</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>similar possibility that
Michael has
suggested.</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>PCN Edge Node allows us
to</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>continue to use the nice
acronym PEN, with its hint of &#8216;penning in&#8217;
the</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>PCN-region.
</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New, Courier" size=3D2>I favour PCN Edge Node,
and</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>also ok with PCN Boundary /
Border</FONT></PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, =
Courier"></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier" =
size=3D2>Node</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman, Times">&nbsp;<BR></FONT><BR><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier, Courier" size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></PRE><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New, Courier"></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier, Courier"=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;<BR>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking =
term&#8221;=20
  Issue<BR>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
  pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new =
flows/sessions to=20
  be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to =

  regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption =
Marking=20
  to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the =
congested=20
  portions of the network?<BR>Michael suggested &#8220;excess traffic =
mark&#8221; &#8211; what do=20
  you reckon?<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Best=20
  =
wishes<BR>phil<BR></FONT>_______________________________________________<=
BR>PCN=20
  mailing list<BR>PCN@ietf.org<BR><A=20
  href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn"=20
  =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</A></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:46:06 -0400
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Thread-Topic: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
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From: "Jozef Babiarz" <babiarz@nortel.com>
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I like what Michael is suggesting with the following minor changes.
"admissible rate" drop the word link because only some of the traffic on
the link is being measured e.g., per service class.=20
I'm OK with "admission stop marking" or just "admission marking" meaning
this is when admission of additional flows should be stopped.

For the second level I support using "supportable rate" and for the
marking "excess traffic marking" where the excess traffic is greater
then the configured supportable rate and may or may not be above the
actual link rate. I would expect that normally supportable rate would
loss that link rate and possible less than the forwarding rate of the
queue used. Preemption is an action of removing flows that some solution
may take to get ride of excess traffic and return to provide good QoS to
remaining traffic.

Regards, Joe
QoS & Network Architecture
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
Email: babiarz@nortel.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:21 AM
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term

Hi,

what do you think about the terms

* admissible link rate and "admission stop marking" using an admission=20
stop bit
* tolerable link rate and "excess traffic marking" using an excess=20
traffic bit
* supportED link rate (now =3D physical or virtual link rate used for=20
interface traffic shaping (Phil), but I'm not sure whether this=20
expression is required at all: maybe just link rate?)

Admission control is a requirement in our context, but preemption is=20
just an option when the tolerable link rate is exceeded (I think I read=20
that somewhere). Therefore, I don't like the term "preemption marking"=20
since this suggests preemption as mandatory. IF preemption is a=20
mandatory feature, the term preemption marking is fine.

Regards,

Michael

philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
> Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is=20
> that action is taken so the link should never be congested.
>
> Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
> *Sent:* 02 October 2006 15:52
> *To:* 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>
> Hi Kwock
>
> What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Georgios
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
> *Sent:* maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
> *To:* philip.eardley@bt.com
> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>
> Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>
>
> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>
> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some=20
> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of=20
> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic

> load to the congested portions of the network?
>
> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>
>
> How about the terms of:
> "Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the=20
> "Admissible Rate"
> and
> "Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the

> "Supportable Rate" ?
>
> It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action=20
> when the rate of traffic is
> not "Supportable" anymore. With Preemption being one of the possible=20
> policy decision actions.
>
> Thanks!
> -- Kwok --
>
> At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>
> Thought I'd try to close a
> few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
> listed at
> _http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt_
>
> =20
>
> =20
> A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>
> Should the region running
> the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
> PCN-Domain?
>
>  Reference:
> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
> 2.1.
>
>  RFC2998 supports use
> of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
> Domain.
>
> Personally I don't mind,
> happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
> draft-chan-problem-statement.
>
> =20
>
> =20
> A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>
> Should we use the
> terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
> (function)?
>
>  Reference:
> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
> 2.1.
>
>  RFC2475 supports use
> of PCN Interior
> Node
>
> Personally I slightly
> prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
> with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
> draft-chan-problem-statement
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
> A3      "PEN Term"
> Issue
>
> Should we use the
> terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
> Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
> (function)?
>
>  Reference:
> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
> 2.1.
>
>  The term currently
> used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
> Node
>
> =20
>
> Personally I don't like the
> term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened
to
> end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
get
> confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
> deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big
picture'
> of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
> Nodes.=20
>
> =20
>
> I also think PCN Gateway
> Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
> where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
> gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end
host,
> if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>
> =20
>
> PCN Boundary Node would be
> consistent with rfc2474
> terminology.
>
> PCN Border Node is a
> similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>
> =20
>
> PCN Edge Node allows us to
> continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in'
the
> PCN-region.=20
>
> =20
>
> I favour PCN Edge Node, and
> also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
> Node
>
> =20
>
>
> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some=20
> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of=20
> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic

> load to the congested portions of the network?
> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>
> Best wishes
> phil
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 02 13:04:47 2006
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 19:05:06 +0200
From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
Organization: University of Wuerzburg
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To: Jozef Babiarz <babiarz@nortel.com>
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
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Hi,

I think that the word "link" in "admissible link rate" indicates that 
the respective rate is link specific in contrast to the 
"border-to-border (b2b)" (received, admission-stop, excess traffic) 
rates (or estimates) that are measured at the egress per b2b aggregate. 
Thus, the "link" within the term avoids misunderstandings with other 
possible scopes (e.g. admissible rate for a specific ingress, admissible 
rate for specific b2b aggregates, ...). Initially, I had a hard time to 
understand the draft since the scope of the rates was not clear to me. 
If we know what we mean, we don't need the "link", but it makes it 
easier for new people to understand the architecture.

Best wishes,

    Michael

Jozef Babiarz wrote:
> I like what Michael is suggesting with the following minor changes.
> "admissible rate" drop the word link because only some of the traffic on
> the link is being measured e.g., per service class. 
> I'm OK with "admission stop marking" or just "admission marking" meaning
> this is when admission of additional flows should be stopped.
>
> For the second level I support using "supportable rate" and for the
> marking "excess traffic marking" where the excess traffic is greater
> then the configured supportable rate and may or may not be above the
> actual link rate. I would expect that normally supportable rate would
> loss that link rate and possible less than the forwarding rate of the
> queue used. Preemption is an action of removing flows that some solution
> may take to get ride of excess traffic and return to provide good QoS to
> remaining traffic.
>
> Regards, Joe
> QoS & Network Architecture
> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de] 
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:21 AM
> To: philip.eardley@bt.com
> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>
> Hi,
>
> what do you think about the terms
>
> * admissible link rate and "admission stop marking" using an admission 
> stop bit
> * tolerable link rate and "excess traffic marking" using an excess 
> traffic bit
> * supportED link rate (now = physical or virtual link rate used for 
> interface traffic shaping (Phil), but I'm not sure whether this 
> expression is required at all: maybe just link rate?)
>
> Admission control is a requirement in our context, but preemption is 
> just an option when the tolerable link rate is exceeded (I think I read 
> that somewhere). Therefore, I don't like the term "preemption marking" 
> since this suggests preemption as mandatory. IF preemption is a 
> mandatory feature, the term preemption marking is fine.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
> philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>   
>> Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is 
>> that action is taken so the link should never be congested.
>>
>> Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
>> *Sent:* 02 October 2006 15:52
>> *To:* 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
>> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>
>> Hi Kwock
>>
>> What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Georgios
>>
>>
>>     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>> *From:* Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>> *Sent:* maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
>> *To:* philip.eardley@bt.com
>> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>
>> Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>>
>>
>> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>
>> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some 
>> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of 
>> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic
>>     
>
>   
>> load to the congested portions of the network?
>>
>> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>
>>
>> How about the terms of:
>> "Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the 
>> "Admissible Rate"
>> and
>> "Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
>>     
>
>   
>> "Supportable Rate" ?
>>
>> It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action 
>> when the rate of traffic is
>> not "Supportable" anymore. With Preemption being one of the possible 
>> policy decision actions.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>> At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>
>> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>> boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>>
>> Thought I'd try to close a
>> few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
>> listed at
>> _http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt_
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>> A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>>
>> Should the region running
>> the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
>> PCN-Domain?
>>
>>  Reference:
>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>> 2.1.
>>
>>  RFC2998 supports use
>> of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
>> Domain.
>>
>> Personally I don't mind,
>> happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
>> draft-chan-problem-statement.
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>> A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>>
>> Should we use the
>> terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
>> (function)?
>>
>>  Reference:
>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>> 2.1.
>>
>>  RFC2475 supports use
>> of PCN Interior
>> Node
>>
>> Personally I slightly
>> prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
>> with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
>> draft-chan-problem-statement
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>> A3      "PEN Term"
>> Issue
>>
>> Should we use the
>> terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
>> Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
>> (function)?
>>
>>  Reference:
>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>> 2.1.
>>
>>  The term currently
>> used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
>> Node
>>
>>  
>>
>> Personally I don't like the
>> term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened
>>     
> to
>   
>> end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
>>     
> get
>   
>> confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
>> deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big
>>     
> picture'
>   
>> of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
>> Nodes. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> I also think PCN Gateway
>> Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
>> where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
>> gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end
>>     
> host,
>   
>> if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>>
>>  
>>
>> PCN Boundary Node would be
>> consistent with rfc2474
>> terminology.
>>
>> PCN Border Node is a
>> similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>>
>>  
>>
>> PCN Edge Node allows us to
>> continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in'
>>     
> the
>   
>> PCN-region. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> I favour PCN Edge Node, and
>> also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
>> Node
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some 
>> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of 
>> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic
>>     
>
>   
>> load to the congested portions of the network?
>> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> phil
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>
>>
>>     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>   
>>     
>
>   

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 02 13:22:03 2006
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Subject: RE: [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, A4
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=20

Phil on issue A3.

We have at least two deployment model that we would like the PCN
mechanism to be feasible in.

One is the "edge-to-edge deployment model as explained in
cl-architecture draft and the second being SIP controlled admission and
preemption which I will send a draft out in few days.=20

=20

In the edge-to-edge case decisions are made in network edge nodes which
is the end node for PCN and in the SIP controlled model, the decision is
make in the SIP controlled endpoint which is an application or service
control point. In SIP case the PCN end node is a phone, media gateway,
multi media terminal, boundary gateway, etc.=20

=20

To be generic and so that it works for both models, I like PCN End Node.


=20

Regards, Joe=20
QoS & Network Architecture=20
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)=20
Email: babiarz@nortel.com=20

________________________________

From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]=20
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:10 AM
To: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, A4

=20

Thought I'd try to close a few more of the Issues - covering the Issues
"A. Terminology Issues" listed at
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt=20
=20
A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue=20
Should the region running the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2998 supports use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of Domain.
Personally I don't mind, happy to stick with PCN-region as currently
used in draft-chan-problem-statement.=20
=20
A2      "PIN Term" Issue=20
Should we use the terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2475 supports use of PCN Interior Node
Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind
much. So happy to stick with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement
=20
=20
A3      "PEN Term" Issue
Should we use the terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN
Boundary Node or PCN Border Node or PCN Gateway Node (function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 The term currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End Node
=20
Personally I don't like the term PCN End Node - the problem is that it
will probably get shortened to end node (already seen this happening on
the list). I think this will get confusing as [1] the innocent may think
it means 'end host'; [2] the deployment models will probably show how
PCN fits into the 'big picture' of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd
have both end hosts & PCN End Nodes.=20
=20
I also think PCN Gateway Node (function) could be slightly confusing.
The actual physical node where the "PCN End Node" function sits is
typically the PCN-region's gateway node, but it could in some deployment
situations be an end host, if the PCN-region extends out that far.=20
=20
PCN Boundary Node would be consistent with rfc2474 terminology.
PCN Border Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested.=20
=20
PCN Edge Node allows us to continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with
its hint of 'penning in' the PCN-region.=20
=20
I favour PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border Node
=20

=20

A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.  Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?

=20

Best wishes

phil


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Phil on issue =
A3.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We have at least two deployment =
model that
we would like the PCN mechanism to be feasible =
in.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One is the &#8220;edge-to-edge =
deployment
model as explained in cl-architecture draft and the second being SIP =
controlled
admission and preemption which I will send a draft out in few days. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In the edge-to-edge case decisions =
are
made in network edge nodes which is the end node for PCN and in the SIP
controlled model, the decision is make in the SIP controlled endpoint =
which is
an application or service control point. In SIP case the PCN end node is =
a phone,
media gateway, multi media terminal, boundary gateway, etc. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>To be generic and so that it works =
for
both models, I like PCN End Node. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p><i><font size=3D4 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>Regards, =
Joe</span></font></i><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>QoS &amp; Network =
Architecture</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN =
393-6098)</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Email: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">babiarz@nortel.com</st1:PersonName></span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 02, =
2006
10:10 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [PCN] Issues A1, =
A2, A3,
A4</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thought I&#8217;d try to close a few more of =
the Issues &#8211; covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology =
Issues&#8221; listed at <a
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</=
a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;PCN-Region Term&quot; Issue =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should the region running the PCN mechanism =
be called the PCN-Region or =
PCN-Domain?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Reference: =
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> RFC2998 supports use of Region, RFC2474 =
supports use of Domain.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t mind, happy to stick =
with PCN-region as currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PIN =
Term&quot; Issue <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we use the terminology PCN Interior =
Node or PCN Intermediate Node =
(function)?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Reference: =
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> RFC2475 supports use of PCN Interior =
Node<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior =
Node, though I don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to stick with PCN =
Interior Node as currently used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PEN =
Term&quot; Issue<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we use the terminology PCN End Node or =
PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN Border Node or PCN Gateway =
Node (function)?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Reference: =
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> The term currently used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End =
Node<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t like the term PCN =
End Node &#8211; the problem is that it will probably get shortened to =
end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will =
get confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means &#8216;end =
host&#8217;; [2] the deployment models will probably show how PCN fits =
into the &#8216;big picture&#8217; of end-to-end QoS, in which case =
we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; PCN End Nodes. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I also think PCN Gateway Node (function) =
could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node where the =
&#8220;PCN End Node&#8221; function sits is typically the =
PCN-region&#8217;s gateway node, but it could in some deployment =
situations be an end host, if the PCN-region extends out that far. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Boundary Node would be consistent with =
rfc2474 terminology.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Border Node is a similar possibility that =
Michael has suggested. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Edge Node allows us to continue to use =
the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of &#8216;penning in&#8217; the =
PCN-region. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I favour PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN =
Boundary / Border Node<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption =
Marking
term&#8221; Issue</span></font><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCourier><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Pre-emption =
Marking may
seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing flows/sessions =
to
allow additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario =
is not
allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term =
be used
instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the =
offered
traffic load to the congested portions of the =
network?</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Michael suggested &#8220;excess traffic =
mark&#8221;
&#8211; what do you reckon?</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Best wishes</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>phil</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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Subject: RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:48:39 -0400
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Yes Michael I see your point. I'm OK with "admissible link rate".

Regards, Joe
QoS & Network Architecture
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
Email: babiarz@nortel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:05 PM
To: Babiarz, Jozef (CAR:0S03)
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term

Hi,

I think that the word "link" in "admissible link rate" indicates that=20
the respective rate is link specific in contrast to the=20
"border-to-border (b2b)" (received, admission-stop, excess traffic)=20
rates (or estimates) that are measured at the egress per b2b aggregate.=20
Thus, the "link" within the term avoids misunderstandings with other=20
possible scopes (e.g. admissible rate for a specific ingress, admissible

rate for specific b2b aggregates, ...). Initially, I had a hard time to=20
understand the draft since the scope of the rates was not clear to me.=20
If we know what we mean, we don't need the "link", but it makes it=20
easier for new people to understand the architecture.

Best wishes,

    Michael

Jozef Babiarz wrote:
> I like what Michael is suggesting with the following minor changes.
> "admissible rate" drop the word link because only some of the traffic
on
> the link is being measured e.g., per service class.=20
> I'm OK with "admission stop marking" or just "admission marking"
meaning
> this is when admission of additional flows should be stopped.
>
> For the second level I support using "supportable rate" and for the
> marking "excess traffic marking" where the excess traffic is greater
> then the configured supportable rate and may or may not be above the
> actual link rate. I would expect that normally supportable rate would
> loss that link rate and possible less than the forwarding rate of the
> queue used. Preemption is an action of removing flows that some
solution
> may take to get ride of excess traffic and return to provide good QoS
to
> remaining traffic.
>
> Regards, Joe
> QoS & Network Architecture
> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:21 AM
> To: philip.eardley@bt.com
> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>
> Hi,
>
> what do you think about the terms
>
> * admissible link rate and "admission stop marking" using an admission

> stop bit
> * tolerable link rate and "excess traffic marking" using an excess=20
> traffic bit
> * supportED link rate (now =3D physical or virtual link rate used for=20
> interface traffic shaping (Phil), but I'm not sure whether this=20
> expression is required at all: maybe just link rate?)
>
> Admission control is a requirement in our context, but preemption is=20
> just an option when the tolerable link rate is exceeded (I think I
read=20
> that somewhere). Therefore, I don't like the term "preemption marking"

> since this suggests preemption as mandatory. IF preemption is a=20
> mandatory feature, the term preemption marking is fine.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
> philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>  =20
>> Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is=20
>> that action is taken so the link should never be congested.
>>
>> Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
>> *Sent:* 02 October 2006 15:52
>> *To:* 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
>> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>
>> Hi Kwock
>>
>> What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Georgios
>>
>>
>>    =20
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  =20
>> *From:* Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>> *Sent:* maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
>> *To:* philip.eardley@bt.com
>> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>
>> Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>>
>>
>> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>
>> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
>> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
>> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some=20
>> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of=20
>> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered
traffic
>>    =20
>
>  =20
>> load to the congested portions of the network?
>>
>> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>
>>
>> How about the terms of:
>> "Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the

>> "Admissible Rate"
>> and
>> "Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding
the
>>    =20
>
>  =20
>> "Supportable Rate" ?
>>
>> It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action=20
>> when the rate of traffic is
>> not "Supportable" anymore. With Preemption being one of the possible=20
>> policy decision actions.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>> At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>
>> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>> boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>>
>> Thought I'd try to close a
>> few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
>> listed at
>> _http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt_
>>
>> =20
>>
>> =20
>> A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>>
>> Should the region running
>> the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
>> PCN-Domain?
>>
>>  Reference:
>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>> 2.1.
>>
>>  RFC2998 supports use
>> of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
>> Domain.
>>
>> Personally I don't mind,
>> happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
>> draft-chan-problem-statement.
>>
>> =20
>>
>> =20
>> A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>>
>> Should we use the
>> terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
>> (function)?
>>
>>  Reference:
>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>> 2.1.
>>
>>  RFC2475 supports use
>> of PCN Interior
>> Node
>>
>> Personally I slightly
>> prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
>> with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
>> draft-chan-problem-statement
>>
>> =20
>>
>> =20
>>
>> =20
>> A3      "PEN Term"
>> Issue
>>
>> Should we use the
>> terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
>> Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
>> (function)?
>>
>>  Reference:
>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>> 2.1.
>>
>>  The term currently
>> used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
>> Node
>>
>> =20
>>
>> Personally I don't like the
>> term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get
shortened
>>    =20
> to
>  =20
>> end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
>>    =20
> get
>  =20
>> confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
>> deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big
>>    =20
> picture'
>  =20
>> of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
>> Nodes.=20
>>
>> =20
>>
>> I also think PCN Gateway
>> Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
>> where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
>> gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end
>>    =20
> host,
>  =20
>> if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>>
>> =20
>>
>> PCN Boundary Node would be
>> consistent with rfc2474
>> terminology.
>>
>> PCN Border Node is a
>> similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>>
>> =20
>>
>> PCN Edge Node allows us to
>> continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in'
>>    =20
> the
>  =20
>> PCN-region.=20
>>
>> =20
>>
>> I favour PCN Edge Node, and
>> also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
>> Node
>>
>> =20
>>
>>
>> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of=20
>> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new=20
>> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some=20
>> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of=20
>> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered
traffic
>>    =20
>
>  =20
>> load to the congested portions of the network?
>> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> phil
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>
>>
>>    =20
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  =20
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>  =20
>>    =20
>
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



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I agree too,

Regards, Rudiger

|I'm OK with "admissible link rate".
|
|Regards, Joe
|QoS & Network Architecture
|Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
|Email: babiarz@nortel.com
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
|Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:05 PM
|To: Babiarz, Jozef (CAR:0S03)
|Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; pcn@ietf.org
|Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
|
|Hi,
|
|I think that the word "link" in "admissible link rate" indicates that=20
|the respective rate is link specific in contrast to the=20
|"border-to-border (b2b)" (received, admission-stop, excess traffic)=20
|rates (or estimates) that are measured at the egress per b2b=20
|aggregate.=20
|Thus, the "link" within the term avoids misunderstandings with other=20
|possible scopes (e.g. admissible rate for a specific ingress,=20
|admissible
|
|rate for specific b2b aggregates, ...). Initially, I had a=20
|hard time to=20
|understand the draft since the scope of the rates was not clear to me.=20
|If we know what we mean, we don't need the "link", but it makes it=20
|easier for new people to understand the architecture.
|
|Best wishes,
|
|    Michael

_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



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A possibility to solve this is to call it the "PCN Edge Node" and
re-name what's in the cl-architecture draft the "gateway-to-gateway"
deployment model

=20

Any other opinions?

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Jozef Babiarz [mailto:babiarz@nortel.com]=20
Sent: 02 October 2006 18:22
To: Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R; pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, A4

=20

=20

Phil on issue A3.

We have at least two deployment model that we would like the PCN
mechanism to be feasible in.

One is the "edge-to-edge deployment model as explained in
cl-architecture draft and the second being SIP controlled admission and
preemption which I will send a draft out in few days.=20

=20

In the edge-to-edge case decisions are made in network edge nodes which
is the end node for PCN and in the SIP controlled model, the decision is
make in the SIP controlled endpoint which is an application or service
control point. In SIP case the PCN end node is a phone, media gateway,
multi media terminal, boundary gateway, etc.=20

=20

To be generic and so that it works for both models, I like PCN End Node.


=20

Regards, Joe=20
QoS & Network Architecture=20
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)=20
Email: babiarz@nortel.com=20

________________________________

From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]=20
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:10 AM
To: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, A4

=20

Thought I'd try to close a few more of the Issues - covering the Issues
"A. Terminology Issues" listed at
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt=20
=20
A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue=20
Should the region running the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2998 supports use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of Domain.
Personally I don't mind, happy to stick with PCN-region as currently
used in draft-chan-problem-statement.=20
=20
A2      "PIN Term" Issue=20
Should we use the terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2475 supports use of PCN Interior Node
Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind
much. So happy to stick with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement
=20
=20
A3      "PEN Term" Issue
Should we use the terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN
Boundary Node or PCN Border Node or PCN Gateway Node (function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 The term currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End Node
=20
Personally I don't like the term PCN End Node - the problem is that it
will probably get shortened to end node (already seen this happening on
the list). I think this will get confusing as [1] the innocent may think
it means 'end host'; [2] the deployment models will probably show how
PCN fits into the 'big picture' of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd
have both end hosts & PCN End Nodes.=20
=20
I also think PCN Gateway Node (function) could be slightly confusing.
The actual physical node where the "PCN End Node" function sits is
typically the PCN-region's gateway node, but it could in some deployment
situations be an end host, if the PCN-region extends out that far.=20
=20
PCN Boundary Node would be consistent with rfc2474 terminology.
PCN Border Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested.=20
=20
PCN Edge Node allows us to continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with
its hint of 'penning in' the PCN-region.=20
=20
I favour PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border Node
=20

=20

A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to
regulations.  Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption
Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic load to the
congested portions of the network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?

=20

Best wishes

phil


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A possibility to solve this is to =
call it
the</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <span lang=3DEN-US>&#8220;PCN Edge =
Node&#8221;
and re-name what&#8217;s in the</span></span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>cl-architecture =
draft the
&#8220;gateway-to-gateway&#8221; deployment model</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Any other =
opinions?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Jozef Babiarz
[mailto:babiarz@nortel.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 02 October 2006 =
18:22<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R;
pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [PCN] Issues =
A1, A2,
A3, A4</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Phil on issue =
A3.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We have at least =
two
deployment model that we would like the PCN mechanism to be feasible =
in.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One is the
&#8220;edge-to-edge deployment model as explained in cl-architecture =
draft and
the second being SIP controlled admission and preemption which I will =
send a
draft out in few days. </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In the =
edge-to-edge case
decisions are made in network edge nodes which is the end node for PCN =
and in
the SIP controlled model, the decision is make in the SIP controlled =
endpoint
which is an application or service control point. In SIP case the PCN =
end node
is a phone, media gateway, multi media terminal, boundary gateway, etc. =
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>To be generic =
and so that
it works for both models, I like PCN End Node. &nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<div>

<p><i><font size=3D4 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>Regards, =
Joe</span></font></i><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:navy'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>QoS &amp; =
Network
Architecture</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Telephone: =
613-763-6098
(ESN 393-6098)</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:
navy'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Email: =
babiarz@nortel.com</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:navy'> </span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 02, =
2006
10:10 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [PCN] Issues A1, =
A2, A3,
A4</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thought I&#8217;d try to close a few more of =
the Issues &#8211; covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology =
Issues&#8221; listed at <a
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</=
a> </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;PCN-Region Term&quot; Issue </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should =
the region running the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or =
PCN-Domain?</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> RFC2998 =
supports use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of =
Domain.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t mind, happy to stick =
with PCN-region as currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement. =
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PIN =
Term&quot; Issue </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we =
use the terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node =
(function)?</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> RFC2475 =
supports use of PCN Interior Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior =
Node, though I don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to stick with PCN =
Interior Node as currently used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;PEN =
Term&quot; Issue</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Should we =
use the terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node =
or PCN Border Node or PCN Gateway Node =
(function)?</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> The term =
currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End =
Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I don&#8217;t like the term PCN =
End Node &#8211; the problem is that it will probably get shortened to =
end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will =
get confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means &#8216;end =
host&#8217;; [2] the deployment models will probably show how PCN fits =
into the &#8216;big picture&#8217; of end-to-end QoS, in which case =
we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; PCN End Nodes. =
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I also =
think PCN Gateway Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The =
actual physical node where the &#8220;PCN End Node&#8221; function sits =
is typically the PCN-region&#8217;s gateway node, but it could in some =
deployment situations be an end host, if the PCN-region extends out that =
far. </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN =
Boundary Node would be consistent with rfc2474 =
terminology.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN =
Border Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested. =
</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>PCN Edge =
Node allows us to continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of =
&#8216;penning in&#8217; the PCN-region. </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I favour =
PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border =
Node</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></pre>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Pre-emption Marking
term&#8221; Issue</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCourier><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'>Pre-emption Marking may =
seem to
indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow
additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not
allowed in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term =
be used
instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the =
offered
traffic load to the congested portions of the network?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>Michael suggested &#8220;excess traffic mark&#8221;
&#8211; what do you reckon?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>Best wishes</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCourier><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Courier'>phil</span></font></p>

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Subject: RE: [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, A4
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Hi Phil
 
I agree with Joe, I like PCN End Node.
Furthermore, the term associated with A2, 
in order to also be generic and be able to cover well both models, I like
the term:
PCN Intermediate Node.
 
Best regards,
Georgios
 

  _____  

From: Jozef Babiarz [mailto:babiarz@nortel.com] 
Sent: maandag 2 oktober 2006 19:22
To: philip.eardley@bt.com; pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, A4



 

Phil on issue A3.

We have at least two deployment model that we would like the PCN mechanism
to be feasible in.

One is the "edge-to-edge deployment model as explained in cl-architecture
draft and the second being SIP controlled admission and preemption which I
will send a draft out in few days. 

 

In the edge-to-edge case decisions are made in network edge nodes which is
the end node for PCN and in the SIP controlled model, the decision is make
in the SIP controlled endpoint which is an application or service control
point. In SIP case the PCN end node is a phone, media gateway, multi media
terminal, boundary gateway, etc. 

 

To be generic and so that it works for both models, I like PCN End Node.  

 

Regards, Joe 
QoS & Network Architecture 
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098) 
Email: babiarz@nortel.com 

  _____  

From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:10 AM
To: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, A4

 

Thought I'd try to close a few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A.
Terminology Issues" listed at
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt 
 
A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue 
Should the region running the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
PCN-Domain?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2998 supports use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of Domain.
Personally I don't mind, happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement. 
 
A2      "PIN Term" Issue 
Should we use the terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
(function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 RFC2475 supports use of PCN Interior Node
Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So
happy to stick with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
draft-chan-problem-statement
 
 
A3      "PEN Term" Issue
Should we use the terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary
Node or PCN Border Node or PCN Gateway Node (function)?
 Reference: draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section 2.1.
 The term currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End Node
 
Personally I don't like the term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will
probably get shortened to end node (already seen this happening on the
list). I think this will get confusing as [1] the innocent may think it
means 'end host'; [2] the deployment models will probably show how PCN fits
into the 'big picture' of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end
hosts & PCN End Nodes. 
 
I also think PCN Gateway Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The
actual physical node where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the
PCN-region's gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an
end host, if the PCN-region extends out that far. 
 
PCN Boundary Node would be consistent with rfc2474 terminology.
PCN Border Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested. 
 
PCN Edge Node allows us to continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its
hint of 'penning in' the PCN-region. 
 
I favour PCN Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border Node
 

 

A4    "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue

Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting
existing flows/sessions to allow additional new flows/sessions to be
admitted.  This scenario is not allowed in some markets due to regulations.
Should a better term be used instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the
need to reduce the offered traffic load to the congested portions of the
network?

Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?

 

Best wishes

phil


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3D#606420 link=3Dblue>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Phil</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I agree with Joe, I like PCN End =
Node.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Furthermore, the term associated with A2,=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>in order to also be generic and be able to =
cover well both=20
models, I like the term:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>PCN Intermediate Node.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Best regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Georgios</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572570309-04102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Jozef Babiarz =
[mailto:babiarz@nortel.com]=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> maandag 2 oktober 2006 19:22<BR><B>To:</B>=20
philip.eardley@bt.com; pcn@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [PCN] Issues =
A1, A2,=20
A3, A4<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Phil on issue =

A3.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We have at =
least two=20
deployment model that we would like the PCN mechanism to be feasible=20
in.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">One is the=20
&#8220;edge-to-edge deployment model as explained in cl-architecture =
draft and the=20
second being SIP controlled admission and preemption which I will send a =
draft=20
out in few days. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In the =
edge-to-edge=20
case decisions are made in network edge nodes which is the end node for =
PCN and=20
in the SIP controlled model, the decision is make in the SIP controlled =
endpoint=20
which is an application or service control point. In SIP case the PCN =
end node=20
is a phone, media gateway, multi media terminal, boundary gateway, etc.=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To be generic =
and so=20
that it works for both models, I like PCN End Node.=20
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D4><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards,=20
Joe</SPAN></FONT></I><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy">=20
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">QoS &amp; =
Network=20
Architecture</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy">=20
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Telephone: =
613-763-6098=20
(ESN 393-6098)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy">=20
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Email: =
<st1:PersonName=20
w:st=3D"on">babiarz@nortel.com</st1:PersonName></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> =
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =

face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 02, 2006 =
10:10=20
AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
pcn@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [PCN] Issues A1, A2, A3, =

A4</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Thought I&#8217;d try to close a few more of the Issues &#8211; =
covering the Issues &#8220;A. Terminology Issues&#8221; listed at <A =
href=3D"http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.t=
xt">http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt</=
A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">A1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PCN-Region Term" Issue =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Should the region =
running the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or =
PCN-Domain?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Reference: =
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> RFC2998 supports =
use of Region, RFC2474 supports use of =
Domain.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Personally I =
don&#8217;t mind, happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PIN Term" Issue =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Should we use the =
terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node =
(function)?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Reference: =
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> RFC2475 supports =
use of PCN Interior Node<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Personally I slightly prefer PCN Interior Node, though I =
don&#8217;t mind much. So happy to stick with PCN Interior Node as =
currently used in =
draft-chan-problem-statement<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">A3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "PEN Term" =
Issue<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Should we use the =
terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN =
Border Node or PCN Gateway Node =
(function)?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Reference: =
draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section =
2.1.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> The term =
currently used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End =
Node<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Personally I =
don&#8217;t like the term PCN End Node &#8211; the problem is that it =
will probably get shortened to end node (already seen this happening on =
the list). I think this will get confusing as [1] the innocent may think =
it means &#8216;end host&#8217;; [2] the deployment models will probably =
show how PCN fits into the &#8216;big picture&#8217; of end-to-end QoS, =
in which case we&#8217;d have both end hosts &amp; PCN End Nodes. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I also think =
PCN Gateway Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual =
physical node where the &#8220;PCN End Node&#8221; function sits is =
typically the PCN-region&#8217;s gateway node, but it could in some =
deployment situations be an end host, if the PCN-region extends out that =
far. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">PCN Boundary =
Node would be consistent with rfc2474 =
terminology.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">PCN Border =
Node is a similar possibility that Michael has suggested. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">PCN Edge Node =
allows us to continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of =
&#8216;penning in&#8217; the PCN-region. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I favour PCN =
Edge Node, and also ok with PCN Boundary / Border =
Node<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DCourier =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Courier">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></PRE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Courier">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier">A4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&#8220;Pre-emption=20
Marking term&#8221; Issue</SPAN></FONT><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DCourier =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier">Pre-emption =
Marking may=20
seem to indicate the requirement of pre-empting existing flows/sessions =
to allow=20
additional new flows/sessions to be admitted.&nbsp; This scenario is not =
allowed=20
in some markets due to regulations.&nbsp; Should a better term be used =
instead=20
of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered =
traffic load=20
to the congested portions of the network?</SPAN></FONT><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier">Michael suggested =
&#8220;excess traffic=20
mark&#8221; &#8211; what do you reckon?</SPAN></FONT><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Courier">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier">Best =
wishes</SPAN></FONT><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Courier">phil</SPAN></FONT><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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The TSV ADs have appointed:

Scott Bradner (sob@harvard.edu)
Anna Charny (acharny@cisco.com)

as chairs for this BOF.

Best Regards

Magnus Westerlund
TSV AD

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Dear all,

PCN BOF draft agenda has been posted to the list. We are soliciting
agenda slot requests and agenda items for the BOF. Note that we are
looking to discuss issues rather than make presentations about Internet
drafts.

Two issues currently raised on the list are:

- should handling 911 calls in the PCN region be within the scope of the
PCN WG (should it be created)

- should PCN over MPLS be within the scope of the PCN WG (should it be
created)

A partial set of other issues raised on the list so far is available
from
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt.=20

The site http://standards.nortel.com/pcn (courtesy Kwok Chan) also
contains the proposed charter, BOF description and initial draft agenda,
as well as the Problem Statement draft.=20

Please send us agenda requests by 6 pm ET October 15. Also a reminder
that -00 draft submission deadline is 9:00 ET October 16.

Best Regards,

Anna and Scott

PCN BOF Chairs

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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 06 06:39:38 2006
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Subject: Re: [PCN] call for PCN BOF agenda slots and discussion items
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 06:38:55 -0400
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> PCN BOF draft agenda has been posted to the list. We are soliciting
> agenda slot requests and agenda items for the BOF. Note that we are
> looking to discuss issues rather than make presentations about  
> Internet
> drafts.
>
> Two issues currently raised on the list are:
>
> - should handling 911 calls in the PCN region be within the scope  
> of the
> PCN WG (should it be created)
>
> - should PCN over MPLS be within the scope of the PCN WG (should it be
> created)

just a thought, but if someone is going to give a presentation on  
"should item X" be within scope of the WG, it would really be cool if  
they could also act as their own devil's advocate and toss up a  
reason or two as to why it should not.  this "other view" could  
either come from what they saw posted on the list related to the  
subject, or their own opinion given that there are trade-offs in  
every decision/direction.  my thought behind this is that it may  
shorten the given-and-take at the mike by getting to the heart of a  
potential debate as soon as possible.

also, awhile back on the list, there was the thought of presenting  
some simulation work as a way of strengthening some earlier stated  
positions.  my observations in the past when seeing simulation  
results is that presenters end up showing too many and the audience  
gets lost looking at the trees from the forest.  it would be nice if  
we the audience could catch the point with as few simulation results  
as possible (like 1 or 2?? :-).  and if further results exists, just  
point us to a website.

cheers,

-ken


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Hi Ken,=20

>just a thought, but if someone is going to give a presentation on
"should
>item X" be within scope of the WG, it would really be cool if they
could=20
>also act as their own devil's advocate and toss up a reason or two as
to
>why it should not.  this "other view" could either come from what they
>saw posted on the list related to the subject, or their own opinion
given
>that there are trade-offs in every decision/direction.  my thought
behind >this is that it may shorten the given-and-take at the mike by
getting to >the heart of a potential debate as soon as possible.

Sounds like generically good advice for a balanced presentation of ones
views :-)

>also, awhile back on the list, there was the thought of presenting some

>simulation work as a way of strengthening some earlier stated
positions.=20

My understanding is that the promised simulations were not so much in
favor of strengthening any particular positions but rather the primary
goal of them was to demonstrate technical feasibility of and/or
highlight problems with the currently proposed solutions.=20

>my observations in the past when seeing simulation results is that=20
>presenters end up showing too many and the audience gets lost looking
at
>the trees from the forest.  it would be nice if we the audience could=20
>catch the point with as few simulation results as possible (like 1 or
2?? >:-).  and if further results exists, just point us to a website.

The plan was to post the simulations but actually not spend any time
discussing them at the BOF.  Note that the simulations are not currently
on the proposed agenda. Of course if there are any questions on those
that cannot be answered on the list or if a strong need to add it to the
agenda becomes evident, that can change.  =20

Regards,
Anna

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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 10 19:28:49 2006
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Subject: [PCN] ProblemStatement Issue NEW: Notion of TRUST
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Hi all:
I am working on a new draft to be submitted for the PCN BOF (reason 
for my silence lately :).

For this new draft, I had some private conversations with couple of 
people on the notion of TRUST.
IMHO, I think this is a fundamental issue and needs to be explored 
for the PCN BOF/WG.

So far we have indicated we want to solve the Flow Admission Control 
and Flow "Preemption"
problem for a controlled environment (please see section 4.1 of -00 
ProblemStatement draft).
But we have not state in detail of the different trust relationships.

Hence I would like to indicate here that we may want to think about 
trust relationships
between (please see section 2.1 of -00 ProblemStatement for 
terminology definitions):
1. PCN Interior Node (PIN) and PIN.
2. PCN End Node (PEN) and PIN.
3. User/Application and PEN.
     For this #3, I am further asking:
     (a) in this case is PEN really representing PCN as a whole?
     (b) is this really about trust between Application Layer and 
Packet Forwarding Network Layer?

Are there any other trust relationships we need to consider?
The scope/degree of these trust relationships?
How may some of these trust relationships be established?

I would like to open this up to the list and gain some insights on 
what may be acceptable
assumptions, approaches related to this topic.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --


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Hi Kwok,

good point, the issue should be part of the problem statement.

The topic is probably one of the most tricky parts of PCN. By=20
that I mean that we have a fair chance to over-engineer a=20
solution. But on the other hand, we can't afford to ignore=20
the topic.

Regards,

Rudiger

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
|Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 1:29 AM
|To: pcn@ietf.org
|Subject: [PCN] ProblemStatement Issue NEW: Notion of TRUST
|
|
|Hi all:
|I am working on a new draft to be submitted for the PCN BOF (reason=20
|for my silence lately :).
|
|For this new draft, I had some private conversations with couple of=20
|people on the notion of TRUST.
|IMHO, I think this is a fundamental issue and needs to be explored=20
|for the PCN BOF/WG.
|
|So far we have indicated we want to solve the Flow Admission Control=20
|and Flow "Preemption"
|problem for a controlled environment (please see section 4.1 of -00=20
|ProblemStatement draft).
|But we have not state in detail of the different trust relationships.
|
|Hence I would like to indicate here that we may want to think about=20
|trust relationships
|between (please see section 2.1 of -00 ProblemStatement for=20
|terminology definitions):
|1. PCN Interior Node (PIN) and PIN.
|2. PCN End Node (PEN) and PIN.
|3. User/Application and PEN.
|     For this #3, I am further asking:
|     (a) in this case is PEN really representing PCN as a whole?
|     (b) is this really about trust between Application Layer and=20
|Packet Forwarding Network Layer?
|
|Are there any other trust relationships we need to consider?
|The scope/degree of these trust relationships?
|How may some of these trust relationships be established?
|
|I would like to open this up to the list and gain some insights on=20
|what may be acceptable
|assumptions, approaches related to this topic.
|
|Thanks!
|-- Kwok --
|
|
|_______________________________________________
|PCN mailing list
|PCN@ietf.org
|https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
|

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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 11 11:21:07 2006
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From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" <khchan@nortel.com>
Subject: RE: [PCN] ProblemStatement Issue NEW: Notion of TRUST
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Ruediger:
At this point, IMHO, we need to at least understand how
the notion of trust may affect PCN.
We may not have all the answers or may not include them
in the charter.  But we should open this up and make
conscientious decisions.  I believe this is the right thing
to do for the BOF/WG.

Also, by opening this up, we may learn of solutions out there
that we don't know of.

I would like to include the result of these discussions into
future versions of the Problem Statement draft if appropriate.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 02:54 AM 10/11/2006, Geib, Ruediger wrote:
>Hi Kwok,
>
>good point, the issue should be part of the problem statement.
>
>The topic is probably one of the most tricky parts of PCN. By
>that I mean that we have a fair chance to over-engineer a
>solution. But on the other hand, we can't afford to ignore
>the topic.
>
>Regards,
>
>Rudiger
>
>|-----Original Message-----
>|From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>|Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 1:29 AM
>|To: pcn@ietf.org
>|Subject: [PCN] ProblemStatement Issue NEW: Notion of TRUST
>|
>|
>|Hi all:
>|I am working on a new draft to be submitted for the PCN BOF (reason
>|for my silence lately :).
>|
>|For this new draft, I had some private conversations with couple of
>|people on the notion of TRUST.
>|IMHO, I think this is a fundamental issue and needs to be explored
>|for the PCN BOF/WG.
>|
>|So far we have indicated we want to solve the Flow Admission Control
>|and Flow "Preemption"
>|problem for a controlled environment (please see section 4.1 of -00
>|ProblemStatement draft).
>|But we have not state in detail of the different trust relationships.
>|
>|Hence I would like to indicate here that we may want to think about
>|trust relationships
>|between (please see section 2.1 of -00 ProblemStatement for
>|terminology definitions):
>|1. PCN Interior Node (PIN) and PIN.
>|2. PCN End Node (PEN) and PIN.
>|3. User/Application and PEN.
>|     For this #3, I am further asking:
>|     (a) in this case is PEN really representing PCN as a whole?
>|     (b) is this really about trust between Application Layer and
>|Packet Forwarding Network Layer?
>|
>|Are there any other trust relationships we need to consider?
>|The scope/degree of these trust relationships?
>|How may some of these trust relationships be established?
>|
>|I would like to open this up to the list and gain some insights on
>|what may be acceptable
>|assumptions, approaches related to this topic.
>|
>|Thanks!
>|-- Kwok --
>|
>|
>|_______________________________________________
>|PCN mailing list
>|PCN@ietf.org
>|https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>|


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<html>
<body>
Kwok,<br><br>
<tt>At </tt>11:05<tt> AM 10/11/2006, Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:</tt> <br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Ruediger:<br>
I would like to include the result of these discussions into<br>
future versions of the Problem Statement draft if
appropriate.</blockquote><br>
Feel free to use the description of the trust problem I've already
written in section 3 of
&lt;<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-border-cheat-01.txt">draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-border-cheat-01.txt</a>&gt;.
Although that draft describes a solution, chartering that we will solve
this problem is a different matter...<br><br>
Trusting whether an upstream response will follow from downstream
congestion, is a hard problem that is currently not possible in the
Internet architecture. No other IETF activity has given itself a bar this
high (TCP and every other IETF transport assumes trust in the upstream
sender's response to congestion).<br><br>
Nonetheless, re-ECN claims to solve this problem. It claims to ensure
that the sender can be trusted to respond correctly to downstream
congestion, and everyone in the feedback loop can be trusted to pass on
congestion feedback honestly (without using crypto). And the above
border-cheating I-D addresses this problem specifically for the edge-edge
deployment model of PCN. <br><br>
However, re-ECN currently proposes to use the last undefined bit in the
IPv4 header so it's unlikely to happen in the same timeframe as we are
hoping to get PCN work to standards track.<br><br>
So, the current approach proposed for chartering the PCN w-g is to assume
trust with respect to responding to congestion, just like all other IETF
work does. <br><br>
But, the trust issue is particularly acute for inelastic flows (which is
why we need admission control). A few non-complying flows can make /all/
other competing flows useless.<br><br>
In practice, PCN is actually further ahead on this issue than any other
IETF activity. But in the PCN charter we shouldn't commit ourselves to
/having/ to be further ahead than the Internet architecture allows.
However, we should include this very important issue in the problem
statement. And we should say it is the standards activity most likely to
be added if/when the group re-charters after it has achieved it's initial
objectives.<br><br>
In particular, we should discuss how to allow space for a solution like
re-ECN, when standardising a protocol encoding for PCN (re-PCN if you
like). I outlined a possible encoding in the above border-cheating
draft.<br><br>
If we did want to standardise re-PCN into bit 48 of the IP header, the
process isn't even clear. I think we could define it for experimental use
within a controlled region. That seems to fits the sprit of the recently
approved BCP on experiments in the IP header
&lt;draft-fenner-iana-exp-2780-05.txt&gt;. But I can't get a clear answer
from anyone whether it does. Before the BCP was issued, I pointed out to
Bill Fenner that the BCP doesn't give the assignment process for bit 48,
and he decided it was best to continue not to mention it. <br><br>
<br>
Bob<br><br>
<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
____________________________________________________________________________<br>
Notice: This contribution is the personal view of the author and does not
necessarily reflect the technical nor commercial direction of BT
plc.<br>
____________________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Networks Research Centre, BT Research<br>
B54/77 Adastral Park,Martlesham Heath,Ipswich,IP5
3RE,UK.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +44 1473 645196</body>
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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 13 12:27:39 2006
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To: "GOLDMAN, STUART O \(STUART\)" <sgoldman@lucent.com>
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Stuart:
Sorry for the delayed response.

Yes.  Preemption may not always be needed.
This may be covered by the notion of preferential admission (based on 
some preferences metric),
hence more part of Admission Control.  And may be less in the 
"preemption" part.
But these detailed fine lines may need to be described and agreed with the
formation of the WG.
Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 01:37 PM 9/20/2006, GOLDMAN, STUART O \(STUART\) wrote:
>Kwok-Ho,
>While you seem to have only mentioned preemption, there should be ways
>to recognize a call deserving higher than normal preference and giving
>it that preference to the remaining network resources without having to
>preempt a call in progress. Yes?
>
>Stuart Goldman
>Lucent Technologies
>sgoldman@lucent.com
>602 493 8438
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:54 AM
>To: Shahram Davari
>Cc: pcn@ietf.org; ken carlberg
>Subject: RE: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not
>AllowedIssue. Used to be Re: [PCN]
>draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
>
>Shahram:
>I totally agree.
>The cell phone network was also jammed during 9/11.
>I was trying to reach my brother who were stuck in the subway
>~2 stops from WTC.
>So I know exactly how this feels like.  But I prefer to let the
>Police and Firemen to
>use this resource to help the general public at large.
>
>The question becomes:
>- Does the Emergency Services want to use the same physical network
>as the general public?
>-- If Yes.  Then should the problem statement becomes:
>     "Some controlled preemption functionality is allowed for
>Emergency purposes in the general
>     public integrated (voice, video, data, etc) network.  This
>controlled preemption functionality
>     needs to be supported by the network mechanisms."
>-- If Yes.  Then we will need some guidance and help wrt the
>regulations of the different jurisdictions.
>     Also if the different jurisdictions even wants to use the same
>network infrastructure for both
>     emergency and public usage purposes.  If it is technically possible.
>
>By this I am not saying a good solution exist or that I am promoting
>a specific solution.
>I am just agreeing that this problem needs to be addressed.
>We may end up saying we can not solve this problem as of yet.  But I
>wish we can solve it.
>
>Regards.
>-- Kwok --
>
>
>At 09:34 AM 9/20/2006, Shahram Davari wrote:
> >Kwok,
> >
> >Indeed you raised a good subject. The requirements for emergency
> >services should be part of the problem statement, and be dealt with
> >in the proposed solution draft. ITU-T has quite extensive work on
> >the requirements for Emergency services.
> >
> >On a side note, one of the problems identified during a recent
> >school shooting in Canada was that the emergency and police couldn't
> >use the phone or cell phones to communicate because the network was
> >jammed due to high volume of calls between students and their families.
> >
> >Yours,
> >Shahram
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:26 PM
> > > To: ken carlberg
> > > Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> > > Subject: ProblemStatement Issue B.9:Call Preemption Not Allowed
>Issue.
> > > Used to be Re: [PCN] draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken:
> > > Thank you for handling so many of our replies at the same time. :)
> > >
> > > YES, on your point of:
> > >
> > > >just to recap.  I just wanted to point out that there are
> > > >jurisdictions that do not allow preemption for voice communications
> > > >used by the general public -- this definitely applies for a number
>of
> > > >PSTNs, and I'm sure it will trickle down to certain deployments of
> > > >VoIP.  Hence, I would recommend that the group consider other (re)
> > > >actions other than preemption....which from the feedback of my
> > > >original note, seems will be done.
> > >
> > > We are using the Problem-Statement draft to put out an
> > > initial version of what
> > > we are thinking, as this is still work in progress, there definitely
> > > are area we
> > > may have missed.
> > >
> > > Thank you for pointing out at least one of them.
> > >
> > > I will write some additional text for -01 version of the Problem
> > > Statement draft to try
> > > and describe the problem you have indicated (but I will try NOT to
> > > indicate any solution
> > > in the Problem Statement draft).
> > >
> > > And we will try to have some text in at least some of our Deployment
> > > Model drafts
> > > to see if there are good solutions to the problem you
> > > indicated.  There may be
> > > more than one solution as there may be more than one Deployment
>Model.
> > >
> > > Please Notice I have changed the subject of the E-Mail thread for
> > > issue tracking purpose.
> > > Please use this E-Mail Subject for continuing this discussion.
> > >
> > > Now I have additional questions concerning the use of Preemption for
> > > handling Emergency
> > > Services.  Will Preemption be allowed for Emergency Services?
> > >  Does some of the
> > > jurisdiction you have indicated want to use a separate network for
> > > Emergency Services
> > > purpose?  Will combining Emergency Services with the normal
> > > VoIP calls/sessions
> > > be a good Problem Statement that we can add to our Problem
> > > Statement draft?
> > >
> > > I am concentrating on Problem Statement instead of Solutions
> > > for now because we
> > > want to get the Problem Statement cleared away first for the
> > > BOF purpose.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > -- Kwok --
> > >
> > > At 12:13 PM 9/19/2006, ken carlberg wrote:
> > > >Anna,
> > > >
> > > >>>maybe we have a different perspective of preemption.  as I view
>it,
> > > >>>preemption is removing *existing* state (circuit in the PSTN
> > > >>>world) in
> > > >>>favor of new state.
> > > >>
> > > >>I guess that may be one thing that needs clarification.  The way I
> > > >>view
> > > >>it (and I think the way draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-00.txt
>and
> > > >>related docs view the issue) is that pre-emption should kick in
> > > >>when for
> > > >>whatever reason provisioning mechanisms fail there simply is not
> > > >>enough
> > > >>capacity to carry all calls.  Setting aside the issue of
>precedence
> > > >>for
> > > >>the moment, the expectation is that the level of traffic needed to
> > > >>trigger premption is typicaly higher (perhaps substanially higher)
> > > >>than
> > > >>the level triggering to stop admission of new flows.  That
> > > means that
> > > >>when preemption does get triggered, there would actually
> > > not really be
> > > >>any new state admitted.
> > > >
> > > >I'm sorry, but with that last sentence you lost me :-)...I kind of
> > > >understood some of the things you were saying, but there were too
> > > >many things you left out (why does one have an admission control at
> > > >level X and a preemption level at X+N?, are you implying that the
> > > >edge is keeping track of the flows it rejects?....that would seem
> > > >quite granular in keeping measurements).
> > > >
> > > >I'm not sure its necessary to clarify the above.  Its probably just
> > > >best that we agree that future work should include a more detailed
> > > >discussion of what is preemption in the context of your
>architecture.
> > > >
> > > >>The degree of how far apart preemption and
> > > >>admission thresholds are is of course a mater of
> > > configuration, but I
> > > >>would expect that they would be sufficiently apart to ensure that
> > > >>you do
> > > >>not just toggle preempted and new flows. Of course if there
> > > are higher
> > > >>precedence calls, then one might expect that a higher
> > > precedence call
> > > >>may be established while lower precedence calls may need to be
> > > >>preempted?
> > > >>
> > > >>Perhaps this expectation should be made more transparent in the
> > > >>drafts?
> > > >>
> > > >>>In the US and some other countries, this is not
> > > >>>allowed in the PSTN.
> > > >>
> > > >>Just wanted to make sure I understand exactly what is not allowed.
> > > >>Are
> > > >>you saying that PSTN is not allowed to preempt a lower
> > > precedence call
> > > >>in order to establish a high recedence call?  Or are you
> > > referring to
> > > >>the same precedence levels?
> > > >
> > > >as an example, in the US PSTN, all calls from the general public
>are
> > > >treated with the same level of precedence.  the exception are
>systems
> > > >like GETS, but they simply increase the probability of call
> > > >completion -- they do not use preemption.  private systems based on
> > > >MLPP, like Autovon in the DoD and NATO, do allow different levels
>of
> > > >priority and subsequent preemption if so needed.  rfc-4190 and
> > > >rfc-4542 provide background on these systems/services along with
> > > >discussion in the context of IP (since this is the IETF :-)
> > > >
> > > >just to recap.  I just wanted to point out that there are
> > > >jurisdictions that do not allow preemption for voice communications
> > > >used by the general public -- this definitely applies for a number
>of
> > > >PSTNs, and I'm sure it will trickle down to certain deployments of
> > > >VoIP.  Hence, I would recommend that the group consider other (re)
> > > >actions other than preemption....which from the feedback of my
> > > >original note, seems will be done.
> > > >
> > > >regards,
> > > >
> > > >-ken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >PCN mailing list
> > > >PCN@ietf.org
> > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PCN mailing list
> > > PCN@ietf.org
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> > >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


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Michael:
I think you bring up a good point.
We will need to make sure the reader can easily know these 
"admissible/supportable rate"
are for each router hop, and not the border-to-border notion.
But the use of the word "link" may not be correct.
This is because we don't want to indicate this rate is the physical link limit.
Or associated with the physical link itself.
We are talking more of the service limit, for example
the scheduler's maximum service rate for the EF queue,

Hence IMHO, we need to make sure the per each router hop notion is clear,
and may want to do so without adding the "link" word to it.
How about giving that a try for the next round?

Thanks!
-- Kwok --


At 01:05 PM 10/2/2006, Michael Menth wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I think that the word "link" in "admissible link rate" indicates 
>that the respective rate is link specific in contrast to the 
>"border-to-border (b2b)" (received, admission-stop, excess traffic) 
>rates (or estimates) that are measured at the egress per b2b 
>aggregate. Thus, the "link" within the term avoids misunderstandings 
>with other possible scopes (e.g. admissible rate for a specific 
>ingress, admissible rate for specific b2b aggregates, ...). 
>Initially, I had a hard time to understand the draft since the scope 
>of the rates was not clear to me. If we know what we mean, we don't 
>need the "link", but it makes it easier for new people to understand 
>the architecture.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>    Michael
>
>Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>>I like what Michael is suggesting with the following minor changes.
>>"admissible rate" drop the word link because only some of the traffic on
>>the link is being measured e.g., per service class. I'm OK with 
>>"admission stop marking" or just "admission marking" meaning
>>this is when admission of additional flows should be stopped.
>>
>>For the second level I support using "supportable rate" and for the
>>marking "excess traffic marking" where the excess traffic is greater
>>then the configured supportable rate and may or may not be above the
>>actual link rate. I would expect that normally supportable rate would
>>loss that link rate and possible less than the forwarding rate of the
>>queue used. Preemption is an action of removing flows that some solution
>>may take to get ride of excess traffic and return to provide good QoS to
>>remaining traffic.
>>
>>Regards, Joe
>>QoS & Network Architecture
>>Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>>Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de] 
>>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:21 AM
>>To: philip.eardley@bt.com
>>Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>>Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>what do you think about the terms
>>
>>* admissible link rate and "admission stop marking" using an 
>>admission stop bit
>>* tolerable link rate and "excess traffic marking" using an excess 
>>traffic bit
>>* supportED link rate (now = physical or virtual link rate used for 
>>interface traffic shaping (Phil), but I'm not sure whether this 
>>expression is required at all: maybe just link rate?)
>>
>>Admission control is a requirement in our context, but preemption 
>>is just an option when the tolerable link rate is exceeded (I think 
>>I read that somewhere). Therefore, I don't like the term 
>>"preemption marking" since this suggests preemption as mandatory. 
>>IF preemption is a mandatory feature, the term preemption marking is fine.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>
>>>Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is 
>>>that action is taken so the link should never be congested.
>>>
>>>Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>*From:* Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
>>>*Sent:* 02 October 2006 15:52
>>>*To:* 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
>>>*Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>>>*Subject:* RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>
>>>Hi Kwock
>>>
>>>What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>
>>>Georgios
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>*From:* Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>>>*Sent:* maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
>>>*To:* philip.eardley@bt.com
>>>*Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>>>*Subject:* Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>
>>>Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>>>
>>>
>>>A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>>
>>>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>>>pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>>>flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in 
>>>some markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used 
>>>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the 
>>>offered traffic
>>>
>>
>>
>>>load to the congested portions of the network?
>>>
>>>Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>>
>>>
>>>How about the terms of:
>>>"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding 
>>>the "Admissible Rate"
>>>and
>>>"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
>>>
>>
>>
>>>"Supportable Rate" ?
>>>
>>>It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate 
>>>action when the rate of traffic is
>>>not "Supportable" anymore. With Preemption being one of the 
>>>possible policy decision actions.
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>-- Kwok --
>>>
>>>At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>>
>>>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>>>
>>>Thought I'd try to close a
>>>few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
>>>listed at
>>>_http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt_
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>>>
>>>Should the region running
>>>the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
>>>PCN-Domain?
>>>
>>>  Reference:
>>>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>2.1.
>>>
>>>  RFC2998 supports use
>>>of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
>>>Domain.
>>>
>>>Personally I don't mind,
>>>happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
>>>draft-chan-problem-statement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>>>
>>>Should we use the
>>>terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
>>>(function)?
>>>
>>>  Reference:
>>>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>2.1.
>>>
>>>  RFC2475 supports use
>>>of PCN Interior
>>>Node
>>>
>>>Personally I slightly
>>>prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
>>>with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
>>>draft-chan-problem-statement
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>A3      "PEN Term"
>>>Issue
>>>
>>>Should we use the
>>>terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
>>>Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
>>>(function)?
>>>
>>>  Reference:
>>>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>2.1.
>>>
>>>  The term currently
>>>used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
>>>Node
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Personally I don't like the
>>>term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened
>>>
>>to
>>
>>>end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
>>>
>>get
>>
>>>confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
>>>deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big
>>>
>>picture'
>>
>>>of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
>>>Nodes.
>>>
>>>
>>>I also think PCN Gateway
>>>Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
>>>where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
>>>gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end
>>>
>>host,
>>
>>>if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>PCN Boundary Node would be
>>>consistent with rfc2474
>>>terminology.
>>>
>>>PCN Border Node is a
>>>similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>PCN Edge Node allows us to
>>>continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in'
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>PCN-region.
>>>
>>>
>>>I favour PCN Edge Node, and
>>>also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
>>>Node
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>>>pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>>>flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in 
>>>some markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used 
>>>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the 
>>>offered traffic
>>>
>>
>>
>>>load to the congested portions of the network?
>>>Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>>
>>>Best wishes
>>>phil
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>PCN mailing list
>>>PCN@ietf.org
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>PCN mailing list
>>>PCN@ietf.org
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
>University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
>Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
>phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
>mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
>http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 13 12:49:47 2006
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Thanks Bob.
We will take this guidance.
We may just want to identify the problem PCN work may depend on,
by drilling down a bit in the problem space (The main purpose of 
bringing this issue up).

But will leave the solution space be open in PCN for now.
Hopefully some additional work are done in other IETF WGs that
PCN WG can use.

But we will not discourage (actually should encourage) people to tell us
how some of the TRUST notion issues can be solved.
Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 11:47 AM 10/13/2006, Bob Briscoe wrote:
>Kwok,
>
>At 11:05 AM 10/11/2006, Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
>>Ruediger:
>>I would like to include the result of these discussions into
>>future versions of the Problem Statement draft if appropriate.
>
>Feel free to use the description of the trust problem I've already 
>written in section 3 of 
><<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-border-cheat-01.txt>draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-border-cheat-01.txt>. 
>Although that draft describes a solution, chartering that we will 
>solve this problem is a different matter...
>
>Trusting whether an upstream response will follow from downstream 
>congestion, is a hard problem that is currently not possible in the 
>Internet architecture. No other IETF activity has given itself a bar 
>this high (TCP and every other IETF transport assumes trust in the 
>upstream sender's response to congestion).
>
>Nonetheless, re-ECN claims to solve this problem. It claims to 
>ensure that the sender can be trusted to respond correctly to 
>downstream congestion, and everyone in the feedback loop can be 
>trusted to pass on congestion feedback honestly (without using 
>crypto). And the above border-cheating I-D addresses this problem 
>specifically for the edge-edge deployment model of PCN.
>
>However, re-ECN currently proposes to use the last undefined bit in 
>the IPv4 header so it's unlikely to happen in the same timeframe as 
>we are hoping to get PCN work to standards track.
>
>So, the current approach proposed for chartering the PCN w-g is to 
>assume trust with respect to responding to congestion, just like all 
>other IETF work does.
>
>But, the trust issue is particularly acute for inelastic flows 
>(which is why we need admission control). A few non-complying flows 
>can make /all/ other competing flows useless.
>
>In practice, PCN is actually further ahead on this issue than any 
>other IETF activity. But in the PCN charter we shouldn't commit 
>ourselves to /having/ to be further ahead than the Internet 
>architecture allows. However, we should include this very important 
>issue in the problem statement. And we should say it is the 
>standards activity most likely to be added if/when the group 
>re-charters after it has achieved it's initial objectives.
>
>In particular, we should discuss how to allow space for a solution 
>like re-ECN, when standardising a protocol encoding for PCN (re-PCN 
>if you like). I outlined a possible encoding in the above 
>border-cheating draft.
>
>If we did want to standardise re-PCN into bit 48 of the IP header, 
>the process isn't even clear. I think we could define it for 
>experimental use within a controlled region. That seems to fits the 
>sprit of the recently approved BCP on experiments in the IP header 
><draft-fenner-iana-exp-2780-05.txt>. But I can't get a clear answer 
>from anyone whether it does. Before the BCP was issued, I pointed 
>out to Bill Fenner that the BCP doesn't give the assignment process 
>for bit 48, and he decided it was best to continue not to mention it.
>
>
>Bob
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>Notice: This contribution is the personal view of the author and 
>does not necessarily reflect the technical nor commercial direction of BT plc.
>____________________________________________________________________________
>Bob Briscoe,                           Networks Research Centre, BT Research
>B54/77 Adastral Park,Martlesham Heath,Ipswich,IP5 3RE,UK.    +44 1473 645196

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<body>
Thanks Bob.<br>
We will take this guidance.<br>
We may just want to identify the problem PCN work may depend on,<br>
by drilling down a bit in the problem space (The main purpose of bringing
this issue up).<br><br>
But will leave the solution space be open in PCN for now.<br>
Hopefully some additional work are done in other IETF WGs that<br>
PCN WG can use.<br><br>
But we will not discourage (actually should encourage) people to tell
us<br>
how some of the TRUST notion issues can be solved.<br>
Thanks!<br>
-- Kwok --<br><br>
At 11:47 AM 10/13/2006, Bob Briscoe wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Kwok,<br><br>
<tt>At </tt>11:05<tt> AM 10/11/2006, Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:</tt> <br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Ruediger:<br>
I would like to include the result of these discussions into<br>
future versions of the Problem Statement draft if
appropriate.</blockquote><br>
Feel free to use the description of the trust problem I've already
written in section 3 of
&lt;<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-border-cheat-01.txt">
draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-border-cheat-01.txt</a>&gt;. Although that
draft describes a solution, chartering that we will solve this problem is
a different matter...<br><br>
Trusting whether an upstream response will follow from downstream
congestion, is a hard problem that is currently not possible in the
Internet architecture. No other IETF activity has given itself a bar this
high (TCP and every other IETF transport assumes trust in the upstream
sender's response to congestion).<br><br>
Nonetheless, re-ECN claims to solve this problem. It claims to ensure
that the sender can be trusted to respond correctly to downstream
congestion, and everyone in the feedback loop can be trusted to pass on
congestion feedback honestly (without using crypto). And the above
border-cheating I-D addresses this problem specifically for the edge-edge
deployment model of PCN. <br><br>
However, re-ECN currently proposes to use the last undefined bit in the
IPv4 header so it's unlikely to happen in the same timeframe as we are
hoping to get PCN work to standards track.<br><br>
So, the current approach proposed for chartering the PCN w-g is to assume
trust with respect to responding to congestion, just like all other IETF
work does. <br><br>
But, the trust issue is particularly acute for inelastic flows (which is
why we need admission control). A few non-complying flows can make /all/
other competing flows useless.<br><br>
In practice, PCN is actually further ahead on this issue than any other
IETF activity. But in the PCN charter we shouldn't commit ourselves to
/having/ to be further ahead than the Internet architecture allows.
However, we should include this very important issue in the problem
statement. And we should say it is the standards activity most likely to
be added if/when the group re-charters after it has achieved it's initial
objectives.<br><br>
In particular, we should discuss how to allow space for a solution like
re-ECN, when standardising a protocol encoding for PCN (re-PCN if you
like). I outlined a possible encoding in the above border-cheating
draft.<br><br>
If we did want to standardise re-PCN into bit 48 of the IP header, the
process isn't even clear. I think we could define it for experimental use
within a controlled region. That seems to fits the sprit of the recently
approved BCP on experiments in the IP header
&lt;draft-fenner-iana-exp-2780-05.txt&gt;. But I can't get a clear answer
from anyone whether it does. Before the BCP was issued, I pointed out to
Bill Fenner that the BCP doesn't give the assignment process for bit 48,
and he decided it was best to continue not to mention it. <br><br>
<br>
Bob<br><br>
<br>
____________________________________________________________________________<br>
Notice: This contribution is the personal view of the author and does not
necessarily reflect the technical nor commercial direction of BT
plc.<br>
____________________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Networks Research Centre, BT Research<br>
B54/77 Adastral Park,Martlesham Heath,Ipswich,IP5
3RE,UK.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +44 1473 645196 </blockquote></body>
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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 13 12:51:09 2006
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From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
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Hi Kwok,

well, I still think it is dangerous if the scope of the rates is missing 
in the terms because there are link- and b2b-specific rates and people 
usually like to jumble them. By clarifying what "admissible/tolerable 
link rate" means, confusion with physical limits can also be excluded. 
Maybe it is better to substitute "link" by "interface"?

Best wishes,

    Michael

Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
> Michael:
> I think you bring up a good point.
> We will need to make sure the reader can easily know these 
> "admissible/supportable rate"
> are for each router hop, and not the border-to-border notion.
> But the use of the word "link" may not be correct.
> This is because we don't want to indicate this rate is the physical 
> link limit.
> Or associated with the physical link itself.
> We are talking more of the service limit, for example
> the scheduler's maximum service rate for the EF queue,
>
> Hence IMHO, we need to make sure the per each router hop notion is clear,
> and may want to do so without adding the "link" word to it.
> How about giving that a try for the next round?
>
> Thanks!
> -- Kwok --
>
>
> At 01:05 PM 10/2/2006, Michael Menth wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think that the word "link" in "admissible link rate" indicates that 
>> the respective rate is link specific in contrast to the 
>> "border-to-border (b2b)" (received, admission-stop, excess traffic) 
>> rates (or estimates) that are measured at the egress per b2b 
>> aggregate. Thus, the "link" within the term avoids misunderstandings 
>> with other possible scopes (e.g. admissible rate for a specific 
>> ingress, admissible rate for specific b2b aggregates, ...). 
>> Initially, I had a hard time to understand the draft since the scope 
>> of the rates was not clear to me. If we know what we mean, we don't 
>> need the "link", but it makes it easier for new people to understand 
>> the architecture.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>    Michael
>>
>> Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>>> I like what Michael is suggesting with the following minor changes.
>>> "admissible rate" drop the word link because only some of the 
>>> traffic on
>>> the link is being measured e.g., per service class. I'm OK with 
>>> "admission stop marking" or just "admission marking" meaning
>>> this is when admission of additional flows should be stopped.
>>>
>>> For the second level I support using "supportable rate" and for the
>>> marking "excess traffic marking" where the excess traffic is greater
>>> then the configured supportable rate and may or may not be above the
>>> actual link rate. I would expect that normally supportable rate would
>>> loss that link rate and possible less than the forwarding rate of the
>>> queue used. Preemption is an action of removing flows that some 
>>> solution
>>> may take to get ride of excess traffic and return to provide good 
>>> QoS to
>>> remaining traffic.
>>>
>>> Regards, Joe
>>> QoS & Network Architecture
>>> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>>> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de] Sent: 
>>> Monday, October 02, 2006 11:21 AM
>>> To: philip.eardley@bt.com
>>> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> what do you think about the terms
>>>
>>> * admissible link rate and "admission stop marking" using an 
>>> admission stop bit
>>> * tolerable link rate and "excess traffic marking" using an excess 
>>> traffic bit
>>> * supportED link rate (now = physical or virtual link rate used for 
>>> interface traffic shaping (Phil), but I'm not sure whether this 
>>> expression is required at all: maybe just link rate?)
>>>
>>> Admission control is a requirement in our context, but preemption is 
>>> just an option when the tolerable link rate is exceeded (I think I 
>>> read that somewhere). Therefore, I don't like the term "preemption 
>>> marking" since this suggests preemption as mandatory. IF preemption 
>>> is a mandatory feature, the term preemption marking is fine.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking is 
>>>> that action is taken so the link should never be congested.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> *From:* Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
>>>> *Sent:* 02 October 2006 15:52
>>>> *To:* 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
>>>> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>>>> *Subject:* RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kwock
>>>>
>>>> What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Georgios
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>>> *From:* Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>>>> *Sent:* maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
>>>> *To:* philip.eardley@bt.com
>>>> *Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>>
>>>> Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>>>
>>>> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>>>> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>>>> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some 
>>>> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of 
>>>> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> load to the congested portions of the network?
>>>>
>>>> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about the terms of:
>>>> "Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding 
>>>> the "Admissible Rate"
>>>> and
>>>> "Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Supportable Rate" ?
>>>>
>>>> It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate action 
>>>> when the rate of traffic is
>>>> not "Supportable" anymore. With Preemption being one of the 
>>>> possible policy decision actions.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> -- Kwok --
>>>>
>>>> At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>>>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>>> boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>>>>
>>>> Thought I'd try to close a
>>>> few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
>>>> listed at
>>>> _http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt_
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>>>>
>>>> Should the region running
>>>> the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
>>>> PCN-Domain?
>>>>
>>>>  Reference:
>>>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>> 2.1.
>>>>
>>>>  RFC2998 supports use
>>>> of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
>>>> Domain.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I don't mind,
>>>> happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
>>>> draft-chan-problem-statement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>>>>
>>>> Should we use the
>>>> terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
>>>> (function)?
>>>>
>>>>  Reference:
>>>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>> 2.1.
>>>>
>>>>  RFC2475 supports use
>>>> of PCN Interior
>>>> Node
>>>>
>>>> Personally I slightly
>>>> prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
>>>> with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
>>>> draft-chan-problem-statement
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A3      "PEN Term"
>>>> Issue
>>>>
>>>> Should we use the
>>>> terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
>>>> Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
>>>> (function)?
>>>>
>>>>  Reference:
>>>> draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>> 2.1.
>>>>
>>>>  The term currently
>>>> used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
>>>> Node
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally I don't like the
>>>> term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
>>>>
>>> get
>>>
>>>> confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
>>>> deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big
>>>>
>>> picture'
>>>
>>>> of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
>>>> Nodes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also think PCN Gateway
>>>> Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
>>>> where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
>>>> gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end
>>>>
>>> host,
>>>
>>>> if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PCN Boundary Node would be
>>>> consistent with rfc2474
>>>> terminology.
>>>>
>>>> PCN Border Node is a
>>>> similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PCN Edge Node allows us to
>>>> continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in'
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> PCN-region.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I favour PCN Edge Node, and
>>>> also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
>>>> Node
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>>> Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>>>> pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>>>> flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in some 
>>>> markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used instead of 
>>>> Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce the offered traffic
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> load to the congested portions of the network?
>>>> Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes
>>>> phil
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PCN mailing list
>>>> PCN@ietf.org
>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PCN mailing list
>>>> PCN@ietf.org
>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
>> University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
>> Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
>> phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
>> mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
>> http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 13 13:11:41 2006
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Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
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Michael:
Thank you for your guidance.
I am still on the fence.
Most likely write both options up and have it reviewed in context.

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 12:51 PM 10/13/2006, Michael Menth wrote:
>Hi Kwok,
>
>well, I still think it is dangerous if the scope of the rates is 
>missing in the terms because there are link- and b2b-specific rates 
>and people usually like to jumble them. By clarifying what 
>"admissible/tolerable link rate" means, confusion with physical 
>limits can also be excluded. Maybe it is better to substitute "link" 
>by "interface"?
>
>Best wishes,
>
>    Michael
>
>Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
>>Michael:
>>I think you bring up a good point.
>>We will need to make sure the reader can easily know these 
>>"admissible/supportable rate"
>>are for each router hop, and not the border-to-border notion.
>>But the use of the word "link" may not be correct.
>>This is because we don't want to indicate this rate is the physical 
>>link limit.
>>Or associated with the physical link itself.
>>We are talking more of the service limit, for example
>>the scheduler's maximum service rate for the EF queue,
>>
>>Hence IMHO, we need to make sure the per each router hop notion is clear,
>>and may want to do so without adding the "link" word to it.
>>How about giving that a try for the next round?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>-- Kwok --
>>
>>
>>At 01:05 PM 10/2/2006, Michael Menth wrote:
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I think that the word "link" in "admissible link rate" indicates 
>>>that the respective rate is link specific in contrast to the 
>>>"border-to-border (b2b)" (received, admission-stop, excess 
>>>traffic) rates (or estimates) that are measured at the egress per 
>>>b2b aggregate. Thus, the "link" within the term avoids 
>>>misunderstandings with other possible scopes (e.g. admissible rate 
>>>for a specific ingress, admissible rate for specific b2b 
>>>aggregates, ...). Initially, I had a hard time to understand the 
>>>draft since the scope of the rates was not clear to me. If we know 
>>>what we mean, we don't need the "link", but it makes it easier for 
>>>new people to understand the architecture.
>>>
>>>Best wishes,
>>>
>>>    Michael
>>>
>>>Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>>>>I like what Michael is suggesting with the following minor changes.
>>>>"admissible rate" drop the word link because only some of the traffic on
>>>>the link is being measured e.g., per service class. I'm OK with 
>>>>"admission stop marking" or just "admission marking" meaning
>>>>this is when admission of additional flows should be stopped.
>>>>
>>>>For the second level I support using "supportable rate" and for the
>>>>marking "excess traffic marking" where the excess traffic is greater
>>>>then the configured supportable rate and may or may not be above the
>>>>actual link rate. I would expect that normally supportable rate would
>>>>loss that link rate and possible less than the forwarding rate of the
>>>>queue used. Preemption is an action of removing flows that some solution
>>>>may take to get ride of excess traffic and return to provide good QoS to
>>>>remaining traffic.
>>>>
>>>>Regards, Joe
>>>>QoS & Network Architecture
>>>>Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>>>>Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de] 
>>>>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:21 AM
>>>>To: philip.eardley@bt.com
>>>>Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>>>>Subject: Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>what do you think about the terms
>>>>
>>>>* admissible link rate and "admission stop marking" using an 
>>>>admission stop bit
>>>>* tolerable link rate and "excess traffic marking" using an 
>>>>excess traffic bit
>>>>* supportED link rate (now = physical or virtual link rate used 
>>>>for interface traffic shaping (Phil), but I'm not sure whether 
>>>>this expression is required at all: maybe just link rate?)
>>>>
>>>>Admission control is a requirement in our context, but preemption 
>>>>is just an option when the tolerable link rate is exceeded (I 
>>>>think I read that somewhere). Therefore, I don't like the term 
>>>>"preemption marking" since this suggests preemption as mandatory. 
>>>>IF preemption is a mandatory feature, the term preemption marking is fine.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Michael
>>>>
>>>>philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Not sure I like this, as the idea of this (pre-emption) marking 
>>>>>is that action is taken so the link should never be congested.
>>>>>
>>>>>Perhaps "severe pre-congestion marking"?
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>*From:* Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
>>>>>*Sent:* 02 October 2006 15:52
>>>>>*To:* 'Kwok-Ho Chan'; Eardley,PL,Philip,CXR9 R
>>>>>*Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>>>>>*Subject:* RE: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi Kwock
>>>>>
>>>>>What about using the term "severe congestion marking"?
>>>>>
>>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Georgios
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>>*From:* Kwok-Ho Chan [mailto:khchan@nortel.com]
>>>>>*Sent:* maandag 2 oktober 2006 16:43
>>>>>*To:* philip.eardley@bt.com
>>>>>*Cc:* pcn@ietf.org
>>>>>*Subject:* Re: [PCN] Issue A4 Preemption Marking Term
>>>>>
>>>>>Some other suggestions related to Issue A4 of:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>>>>
>>>>>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>>>>>pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>>>>>flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in 
>>>>>some markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used 
>>>>>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce 
>>>>>the offered traffic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>load to the congested portions of the network?
>>>>>
>>>>>Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>How about the terms of:
>>>>>"Admissible Rate Marking" for the marking indication of 
>>>>>exceeding the "Admissible Rate"
>>>>>and
>>>>>"Supportable Rate Marking" for the marking indication of exceeding the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Supportable Rate" ?
>>>>>
>>>>>It is then up to the Policy Decision to take the appropriate 
>>>>>action when the rate of traffic is
>>>>>not "Supportable" anymore. With Preemption being one of the 
>>>>>possible policy decision actions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>-- Kwok --
>>>>>
>>>>>At 10:09 AM 10/2/2006, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>>>>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>>>>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6E62C.6FE1DFFF"
>>>>>
>>>>>Thought I'd try to close a
>>>>>few more of the Issues - covering the Issues "A. Terminology Issues"
>>>>>listed at
>>>>>_http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ProblemStatementDraftIssuesList.txt_
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A1      "PCN-Region Term" Issue
>>>>>
>>>>>Should the region running
>>>>>the PCN mechanism be called the PCN-Region or
>>>>>PCN-Domain?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Reference:
>>>>>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>>>2.1.
>>>>>
>>>>>  RFC2998 supports use
>>>>>of Region, RFC2474 supports use of
>>>>>Domain.
>>>>>
>>>>>Personally I don't mind,
>>>>>happy to stick with PCN-region as currently used in
>>>>>draft-chan-problem-statement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A2      "PIN Term" Issue
>>>>>
>>>>>Should we use the
>>>>>terminology PCN Interior Node or PCN Intermediate Node
>>>>>(function)?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Reference:
>>>>>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>>>2.1.
>>>>>
>>>>>  RFC2475 supports use
>>>>>of PCN Interior
>>>>>Node
>>>>>
>>>>>Personally I slightly
>>>>>prefer PCN Interior Node, though I don't mind much. So happy to stick
>>>>>with PCN Interior Node as currently used in
>>>>>draft-chan-problem-statement
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A3      "PEN Term"
>>>>>Issue
>>>>>
>>>>>Should we use the
>>>>>terminology PCN End Node or PCN Edge Node or PCN Boundary Node or PCN
>>>>>Border Node or PCN Gateway Node
>>>>>(function)?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Reference:
>>>>>draft-chan-problem-statement-00.txt section
>>>>>2.1.
>>>>>
>>>>>  The term currently
>>>>>used in draft-chan-problem-statement is PCN End
>>>>>Node
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Personally I don't like the
>>>>>term PCN End Node - the problem is that it will probably get shortened
>>>>to
>>>>
>>>>>end node (already seen this happening on the list). I think this will
>>>>get
>>>>
>>>>>confusing as [1] the innocent may think it means 'end host'; [2] the
>>>>>deployment models will probably show how PCN fits into the 'big
>>>>picture'
>>>>
>>>>>of end-to-end QoS, in which case we'd have both end hosts & PCN End
>>>>>Nodes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I also think PCN Gateway
>>>>>Node (function) could be slightly confusing. The actual physical node
>>>>>where the "PCN End Node" function sits is typically the PCN-region's
>>>>>gateway node, but it could in some deployment situations be an end
>>>>host,
>>>>
>>>>>if the PCN-region extends out that far.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>PCN Boundary Node would be
>>>>>consistent with rfc2474
>>>>>terminology.
>>>>>
>>>>>PCN Border Node is a
>>>>>similar possibility that Michael has suggested.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>PCN Edge Node allows us to
>>>>>continue to use the nice acronym PEN, with its hint of 'penning in'
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>PCN-region.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I favour PCN Edge Node, and
>>>>>also ok with PCN Boundary / Border
>>>>>Node
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A4 "Pre-emption Marking term" Issue
>>>>>Pre-emption Marking may seem to indicate the requirement of 
>>>>>pre-empting existing flows/sessions to allow additional new 
>>>>>flows/sessions to be admitted. This scenario is not allowed in 
>>>>>some markets due to regulations. Should a better term be used 
>>>>>instead of Pre-emption Marking to indicate the need to reduce 
>>>>>the offered traffic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>load to the congested portions of the network?
>>>>>Michael suggested "excess traffic mark" - what do you reckon?
>>>>>
>>>>>Best wishes
>>>>>phil
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>PCN mailing list
>>>>>PCN@ietf.org
>>>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>PCN mailing list
>>>>>PCN@ietf.org
>>>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
>>>University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
>>>Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
>>>phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
>>>mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
>>>http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>PCN mailing list
>>>PCN@ietf.org
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>
>--
>Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
>University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
>Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
>phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
>mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
>http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 13 15:29:47 2006
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Subject: RE: [PCN] Summary
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Michael
Thanks for all your comments, it was great to have a detailed
perspective and suggestions from someone reading it fresh.

On your email below, here's what I've been doing so far, completing
before the draft deadline.

I tried to find a happy medium between what you wrote and what's in the
draft at the moment. Hopefully it's clearer and snappier than the
previous version of the draft. I more or less kept existing S1.1.0 -
because wanted to outline the specific scenario (ie in line with intserv
over diffserv). Then I used most of what you wrote instead of the
existing 1.1.1 & 1.1.2. I also shuffled a couple of bits from section 1
to later in the doc.

On a technical point, I deliberately removed the phrase in what you
wrote (in pre-emption paragraph) "the rate of the
border-to-border-CL-aggregate should be reduced by its
border-to-border-excess-rate under the assumption that no packet loss
occurred" - because this isn't mentioned in the main section 3, and
anyway is very risky as the scenario is when link or probably multiple
links have failed so it's quite likely that pkts are being dropped.=20

On a terminology, I kept with what the draft currently uses. I think one
of the things the WG will do [if formed] is agree on terminology, and I
didn't want to pre-empt (!) this discussion=20

Thanks
phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: 22 September 2006 14:42
To: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] Summary

Summary

A "controlled load (CL) region" consists of ingress and egress gateways=20
(routers) and of interior routers. An admission control (AC) function=20
explicitly admits flows that want to use the CL service of the CL region

and that enter and leave the region at its ingress and egress routers.=20
The ingress and egress gateways are also called border routers and the=20
overall CL traffic between two border routers is called a=20
"border-to-border (b2b) CL aggregate". The flows need traffic=20
descriptors that are enforced by a policing function at the ingress=20
routers and they may also be used for the admission decision.

Each link in such a CL region is associated with a configurable=20
"admissible CL link rate" and a configurable "supportable CL link rate"=20
whereby the supportable CL link rate is usually significantly larger=20
than the admissible CL link rate. When a link carries more traffic than=20
its admissible link CL rate, no additional flows should be admitted to=20
the network. Although flows are only admitted as long as the admissible=20
CL link rate is not exceeded, the admitted traffic on a link can exceed=20
the supportable CL link rate, e.g., due to changed flow behavior or due=20
to redirected traffic after failures. In such a case, counter actions=20
may be taken to reduce the traffic on the link, e.g., by preempting=20
already admitted CL flows in order to restore the QoS of the CL service.

The AC function for a new flow entering the network at ingress router R0

and leaving it at egress router R1 relies on feedback from the egress=20
router R1 about the existing b2b CL aggregate between R0 and R1. This=20
feedback is generated as follows. All routers meter the rate of the CL=20
traffic on their outgoing links and mark the packets with "admission=20
saturation" if the admissible CL link rate is exceeded. Egress router R1

controls the admission saturation marks for each of its b2b CL
aggregates separately, and if the packets from R0 are admission=20
saturation marked, no further flows from R0 to R1 should be admitted.=20
This must be signaled from the egress R1 to the ingress R0. As the=20
inter-arrival time of CL packets on a link varies, the rate of the CL=20
traffic on the link is also subject to fluctuations. As a consequence,=20
the admissible CL link rate may be sometimes exceeded. To get more=20
stable information about the admission saturation for a b2b aggregate,=20
the egress routers measure the fraction of the traffic that is=20
associated with an admission saturation mark, and provide a "b2b=20
admission saturation estimate" based on a moving average. If this value=20
is large (close to 1), no further flows should be admitted.

A potential preemption function relies on the feedback from the egress=20
routers about the b2b CL aggregates. This feedback is generated as=20
follows. All routers meter the rate of the CL traffic on their outgoing=20
links and mark only those packets with
"excess traffic" that exceed the respective supportable CL link rate.=20
The egress routers measure for each b2b CL aggregate the rate of all=20
received packets ("b2b received rate") and the rate of received packets=20
with an excess traffic mark ("b2b excess rate"). If the b2b excess rate=20
of an b2b CL aggregate is larger than zero, the rate of the b2b CL=20
aggregate should be reduced by its b2b excess rate under the assumption=20
that no packet loss occurred; otherwise, the b2b sent rate is required
from the corresponding ingress router to calculate the required traffic=20
rate reduction: (sent rate - (received rate - excess rate)).


Thus, the following mapping of the terminology is used (here : Section=20
1.2 of the draft):
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-
03.txt=20


admissible link rate: configured-admission-rate
supportable link rate: configured-preemption-rate
admission saturation mark: admission mark
excess traffic mark: preemption mark
b2b CL aggregate: CL-region-aggregate
b2b admission saturation estimate: congestion-level-estimate
b2b sent rate: ingress-aggregate-rate
b2b received rate: no equivalent
b2b excess traffic rate: no equivalent
An equivalent for sustainable-aggregate-rate is intentionally avoided
as this is only what it means if packets of the respective aggregate are
preemption marked.

I like the new notation better than the old one for the following
reasons:
- The attributes "b2b" and "link" show the scope of the measured=20
quantities which is of extreme importance for the understanding of how=20
the measurement-based AC works.
- "admissible" and "supportable" express a threshold rather than an=20
action (admission, preemption).
- The mark "excess traffic" just indicates that the admissible link rate

is exceeded, but it does not imply any action like preemption.
- The mark "admission saturation" indicates that no further flows should

be admitted whereas the mark "admission" can lead to confusion.
- This motivates also the "b2b admission saturation estimate".

I do not propose this nomenclature as the best one and that it should be

copied, but I'd like to point out that the terminology can be made more=20
precise.

Kind regards,

    Michael

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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Subject: RE: [PCN] Simplicity, Scalability, Robustness
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Michael
 Thanks for this as well. I'm basically proposing to include it in the
new version of the cl-architecture draft.

Suggesting instead of the bullet "Networks are dimensioned ..." (which
I'm not completely comfortable with), a bullet about PCN controlling the
load dynamically:-

o	The admitted load is controlled dynamically. Therefore it adapts
as the traffic matrix changes, and also if the network topology changes
(eg after a link failure). Hence an operator can be less conservative
when deploying network capacity, and less accurate in their prediction
of the traffic matrix. Also, controlling the load using statically
provisioned capacity per ingress (regardless of the egress of a flow),
as is typical in the DiffServ architecture [RFC2475], can lead to
focussed overload: many flows happen to focus on a particular link and
then all flows through the congested link fail catastrophically (Section
6.2).

thanks
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: 22 September 2006 14:42
To: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] Simplicity, Scalability, Robustness


The proposed network admission control (NAC) method is simple, scalable,

and robust because

- Per flow states are only required at the ingress routers to prevent=20
non-admitted CL traffic from entering the CL region, other network=20
entities are not aware of individual flows.
- Each router has a separate admission saturation and excess traffic=20
marker for each of its links. These markers operate on the overall CL=20
traffic of the respective link. Therefore, there are no scalability=20
concerns.
- The information of these measurements is implicitly signaled to the=20
respective egress routers by the marks in the packet headers and no=20
protocol actions are required.
- The egress routers measure the rates of all received, admission=20
saturation marked, and excess traffic marked packets separately for each

ingress router.  These meters operate on the overall CL traffic of the=20
respective link. Therefore, there are no scalability concerns as long as

the number of ingress routers is sufficiently small (or at least not=20
overwhelmingly large).
- Feedback signaling is required between all pairs of ingress and egress

routers and the signaled information is on the basis of the=20
corresponding b2b CL aggregate, i.e., it is also unaware of individual=20
flows.
- The admissible link rates can be chosen small enough and the=20
supportable link rates can be chosen large enough that admitted traffic=20
can be carried after a rerouting in failure cases. This is an important=20
feature as QoS violations in core networks due to link failures are more

likely than QoS violations due to increased traffic volume.
- Networks are dimensioned in such a way that packet delay and loss or=20
excessive call blocking are unlikely. Thus, the effect of admission=20
control is usually not visible. It can be viewed as an insurance to=20
prevent congestion in exceptional scenarios such as excessive user load=20
or redirected traffic due to single link failures (see point above).
- The preemption function complements AC to recover from sudden=20
unexpected surges of already admitted CL traffic on the links. Such=20
scenarios are very unlikely but not impossible. They can be caused by=20
large network failures that redirect lots of admitted CL traffic to=20
other links, by malfunction of the measurement-based AC in the presence=20
of a flash crowd of new admission requests, or by malfunction of the=20
measurement-based AC in the presence of admitted flows that send for a=20
while with an atypically low rate and increase their rates in a=20
concerted way.

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 13 16:22:58 2006
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Subject: RE: [PCN] Feedback to draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-03.txt
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:22:27 +0100
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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
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Whilst updating the draft I'm looking at this idea of yours

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: 20 September 2006 07:44
To: Anna Charny (acharny)
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Feedback to
draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-03.txt

[snip]
>
> 7) Section 5.5
>
> Another potential solution: add the declared rate to the SAR at the
> ingress gateway as long as new flows send hardly any traffic. This
> information must be obtained from the corresponding policers which are
> also under the control of the ingress gateway. Or add it for an
initial
> period of e.g. 10 s?
>
>        [Anna]Just to understand what you mean: this is a proposal to
> solve 	 which aspect of the problem?
>  =20
This proposal tries to cope with flash crowds, i.e. with many almost=20
simultaneous admission requests. The problem is that the AC can respect=20
the impact of  newly admitted flows only after some time when their=20
typical sent rate influences the admission marking in the routers. I=20
think that there should be a mechanism to find out the minimum rate=20
between two border routers that is still admissible. The sum of the=20
overall declared rates of new flows should not consume more than this=20
rate. A flow is new as long as its typical rate has not yet hat an=20
impact on the packet marking, and to keep things simple, for an initial=20
time of maybe 10 s.

[phil] your idea sounds interesting, but not quite sure how it works -
how do you find out the minimum rate between two border routers that is
still admissible?
This doesn't seem easy to me. You can't just subtract the current
ingress rate from some static maximum capacity for the aggregate between
the two border routers. Because this capacity depends on what all the
other aggregates are doing that share some of the same links as this
aggregate.=20

I think you suggested in another email [sorry if I got this wrong, it's
getting late here..] sending a msg from ingress to egress that quizzed
each router en route about how much capacity it has left (below the
configured-admission-rate [aka admissible-link-rate]). I'm not sure I
like this - we're trying to have a solution that makes minimal impact on
existing routers, processing this sort of msg would be a significant
change?

Thanks
phil

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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 16 03:02:32 2006
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From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
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Subject: [PCN] Protection against flash crowds: slow-admission marking
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Dear Phil,

yes, I proposed "quizzing" the routers along the way for their unused CL 
capacity. When only little capacity is left, the ingress slows down its 
admission rate to, e.g. (1 Mbit/s)/10 s. Note that this does not require 
the routers to keep any states.

But if quizzing still too complex, "slow-admission marking" by 
intermediate PCN nodes could be used:

1) no marking: there is lot's of capacity on all links and new flows can 
be admitted as fast as possible
2) slow-admission marking: only little admissible capacity is left and 
the link runs the risk being overloaded by a flash crowd when a large 
rate of new flows is admitted within a short interval, therefore, 
additional flows should be admitted only slowly.
3) stop-admission marking: the admissible link capacity is consumed and 
no more flows over this link should be admitted
4) excess-traffic marking: the link carries too much traffic and flows 
should be preempted

Example:
a) slow-admission threshold: 10 Mbit/s
b) admissible link capacity: 20 Mbit/s
c) tolerable link capacity 40 Mbit/s
d) physical link bandwidth: 50 Mbit/s

a) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the slow-admission 
threshold, all packets are slow-admission marked; the egress signals the 
information back to the respective ingress routers which slow down their 
admission rate for the specific egress to, e.g., 1 (Mbit/s)/10 s. As a 
consequence, flash crowds cannot swamp a medium loaded system.
b)  If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the admissible link 
capacity, all packets are stop-admission marked; the egress signals the 
information back to the respective ingress routers and the they stop 
admitting further calls to the specific egress.
c) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the tolerable link capacity, 
all excess packets are excess-traffic marked; the egress signals the 
information back to the respective ingress routers and the they preempt 
the necessary number of calls to the specific egress.
d) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the physical link capacity, 
packet loss and heavy delay occurs.


As 1), 3), and 4) already exist, two bits are needed for encoding the 
marking anyway, therefore, the implementation of 2) wouldn't need 
another bit. As slow-admission marking is technically the same as 
stop-admission marking, this solution should be compliant with the 
existing philosophy.

Best wishes,

    Michael

> Thanks
> phil
>   

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 16 03:14:23 2006
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From: "Geib, Ruediger" <Ruediger.Geib@t-systems.com>
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Hello Michael,

I mentioned earlier that I also prefer PCN to work without signaling=20
between backbone routers.=20

I'm open to a discussion on mechanisms and code point consumption on=20
IP level. One of my main concerns is to allow operation of PCN=20
within an MPLS domain. There, the overall codepoint space to=20
differentiate traffic or to congestion mark it is 3 bits or=20
8 Codepoints. That means no matter what is specified for PCN on=20
IP level, a simplified and interoperable implementation should=20
be possible on MPLS level.

Regards,

R=FCdiger


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:03 AM
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] Protection against flash crowds: slow-admission marking


Dear Phil,

yes, I proposed "quizzing" the routers along the way for their unused CL =

capacity. When only little capacity is left, the ingress slows down its=20
admission rate to, e.g. (1 Mbit/s)/10 s. Note that this does not require =

the routers to keep any states.

But if quizzing still too complex, "slow-admission marking" by=20
intermediate PCN nodes could be used:

1) no marking: there is lot's of capacity on all links and new flows can =

be admitted as fast as possible
2) slow-admission marking: only little admissible capacity is left and=20
the link runs the risk being overloaded by a flash crowd when a large=20
rate of new flows is admitted within a short interval, therefore,=20
additional flows should be admitted only slowly.
3) stop-admission marking: the admissible link capacity is consumed and=20
no more flows over this link should be admitted
4) excess-traffic marking: the link carries too much traffic and flows=20
should be preempted

Example:
a) slow-admission threshold: 10 Mbit/s
b) admissible link capacity: 20 Mbit/s
c) tolerable link capacity 40 Mbit/s
d) physical link bandwidth: 50 Mbit/s

a) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the slow-admission=20
threshold, all packets are slow-admission marked; the egress signals the =

information back to the respective ingress routers which slow down their =

admission rate for the specific egress to, e.g., 1 (Mbit/s)/10 s. As a=20
consequence, flash crowds cannot swamp a medium loaded system.
b)  If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the admissible link=20
capacity, all packets are stop-admission marked; the egress signals the=20
information back to the respective ingress routers and the they stop=20
admitting further calls to the specific egress.
c) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the tolerable link capacity, =

all excess packets are excess-traffic marked; the egress signals the=20
information back to the respective ingress routers and the they preempt=20
the necessary number of calls to the specific egress.
d) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the physical link capacity,=20
packet loss and heavy delay occurs.


As 1), 3), and 4) already exist, two bits are needed for encoding the=20
marking anyway, therefore, the implementation of 2) wouldn't need=20
another bit. As slow-admission marking is technically the same as=20
stop-admission marking, this solution should be compliant with the=20
existing philosophy.

Best wishes,

    Michael

> Thanks
> phil
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

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From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
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Hi Ruediger,

Geib, Ruediger wrote:
> Hello Michael,
>
> I mentioned earlier that I also prefer PCN to work without signaling=20
> between backbone routers.=20
>
> I'm open to a discussion on mechanisms and code point consumption on=20
> IP level. One of my main concerns is to allow operation of PCN=20
> within an MPLS domain. There, the overall codepoint space to=20
> differentiate traffic or to congestion mark it is 3 bits or=20
> 8 Codepoints. That means no matter what is specified for PCN on=20
> IP level, a simplified and interoperable implementation should=20
> be possible on MPLS level.
>  =20
Well, as I also see this problem, I pointed out that so far 3 code=20
points have been consumed for
1) no marking,
3) stop-admission marking, and
4) excess-traffic marking.

Slow-admission marking (2) would add only a fourth code point such that=20
altogether two bits are required. And the existing solution also=20
requires two bits.

Best regards,

    Michael

> Regards,
>
> R=FCdiger
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]
> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:03 AM
> To: philip.eardley@bt.com
> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: [PCN] Protection against flash crowds: slow-admission marking
>
>
> Dear Phil,
>
> yes, I proposed "quizzing" the routers along the way for their unused C=
L=20
> capacity. When only little capacity is left, the ingress slows down its=
=20
> admission rate to, e.g. (1 Mbit/s)/10 s. Note that this does not requir=
e=20
> the routers to keep any states.
>
> But if quizzing still too complex, "slow-admission marking" by=20
> intermediate PCN nodes could be used:
>
> 1) no marking: there is lot's of capacity on all links and new flows ca=
n=20
> be admitted as fast as possible
> 2) slow-admission marking: only little admissible capacity is left and=20
> the link runs the risk being overloaded by a flash crowd when a large=20
> rate of new flows is admitted within a short interval, therefore,=20
> additional flows should be admitted only slowly.
> 3) stop-admission marking: the admissible link capacity is consumed and=
=20
> no more flows over this link should be admitted
> 4) excess-traffic marking: the link carries too much traffic and flows=20
> should be preempted
>
> Example:
> a) slow-admission threshold: 10 Mbit/s
> b) admissible link capacity: 20 Mbit/s
> c) tolerable link capacity 40 Mbit/s
> d) physical link bandwidth: 50 Mbit/s
>
> a) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the slow-admission=20
> threshold, all packets are slow-admission marked; the egress signals th=
e=20
> information back to the respective ingress routers which slow down thei=
r=20
> admission rate for the specific egress to, e.g., 1 (Mbit/s)/10 s. As a=20
> consequence, flash crowds cannot swamp a medium loaded system.
> b)  If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the admissible link=20
> capacity, all packets are stop-admission marked; the egress signals the=
=20
> information back to the respective ingress routers and the they stop=20
> admitting further calls to the specific egress.
> c) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the tolerable link capacity=
,=20
> all excess packets are excess-traffic marked; the egress signals the=20
> information back to the respective ingress routers and the they preempt=
=20
> the necessary number of calls to the specific egress.
> d) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the physical link capacity,=
=20
> packet loss and heavy delay occurs.
>
>
> As 1), 3), and 4) already exist, two bits are needed for encoding the=20
> marking anyway, therefore, the implementation of 2) wouldn't need=20
> another bit. As slow-admission marking is technically the same as=20
> stop-admission marking, this solution should be compliant with the=20
> existing philosophy.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>     Michael
>
>  =20
>> Thanks
>> phil
>>  =20
>>    =20
>
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 16 04:59:44 2006
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Message-ID: <45334A20.9060705@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:00:16 +0200
From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
Organization: University of Wuerzburg
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To: "Geib, Ruediger" <Ruediger.Geib@t-systems.com>
Subject: Re: [PCN] Protection against flash crowds: slow-admission marking
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Hi Ruediger,

once more again regarding the number of additional code points. I don't=20
think that all four markings need to be mandatory. There may be networks=20
operating only with stop-admission marking to perform admission control.=20
Others wish to have preemption and need, therefore, excess-traffic=20
marking. And those expecting flash crowds can implement slow-admission=20
marking in addition. Thus, there is a tradeoff between the number of=20
used features and the code point consumption.

Best regards,

    Michael

Geib, Ruediger wrote:
> Hello Michael,
>
> I mentioned earlier that I also prefer PCN to work without signaling=20
> between backbone routers.=20
>
> I'm open to a discussion on mechanisms and code point consumption on=20
> IP level. One of my main concerns is to allow operation of PCN=20
> within an MPLS domain. There, the overall codepoint space to=20
> differentiate traffic or to congestion mark it is 3 bits or=20
> 8 Codepoints. That means no matter what is specified for PCN on=20
> IP level, a simplified and interoperable implementation should=20
> be possible on MPLS level.
>
> Regards,
>
> R=FCdiger
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]
> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:03 AM
> To: philip.eardley@bt.com
> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: [PCN] Protection against flash crowds: slow-admission marking
>
>
> Dear Phil,
>
> yes, I proposed "quizzing" the routers along the way for their unused C=
L=20
> capacity. When only little capacity is left, the ingress slows down its=
=20
> admission rate to, e.g. (1 Mbit/s)/10 s. Note that this does not requir=
e=20
> the routers to keep any states.
>
> But if quizzing still too complex, "slow-admission marking" by=20
> intermediate PCN nodes could be used:
>
> 1) no marking: there is lot's of capacity on all links and new flows ca=
n=20
> be admitted as fast as possible
> 2) slow-admission marking: only little admissible capacity is left and=20
> the link runs the risk being overloaded by a flash crowd when a large=20
> rate of new flows is admitted within a short interval, therefore,=20
> additional flows should be admitted only slowly.
> 3) stop-admission marking: the admissible link capacity is consumed and=
=20
> no more flows over this link should be admitted
> 4) excess-traffic marking: the link carries too much traffic and flows=20
> should be preempted
>
> Example:
> a) slow-admission threshold: 10 Mbit/s
> b) admissible link capacity: 20 Mbit/s
> c) tolerable link capacity 40 Mbit/s
> d) physical link bandwidth: 50 Mbit/s
>
> a) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the slow-admission=20
> threshold, all packets are slow-admission marked; the egress signals th=
e=20
> information back to the respective ingress routers which slow down thei=
r=20
> admission rate for the specific egress to, e.g., 1 (Mbit/s)/10 s. As a=20
> consequence, flash crowds cannot swamp a medium loaded system.
> b)  If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the admissible link=20
> capacity, all packets are stop-admission marked; the egress signals the=
=20
> information back to the respective ingress routers and the they stop=20
> admitting further calls to the specific egress.
> c) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the tolerable link capacity=
,=20
> all excess packets are excess-traffic marked; the egress signals the=20
> information back to the respective ingress routers and the they preempt=
=20
> the necessary number of calls to the specific egress.
> d) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the physical link capacity,=
=20
> packet loss and heavy delay occurs.
>
>
> As 1), 3), and 4) already exist, two bits are needed for encoding the=20
> marking anyway, therefore, the implementation of 2) wouldn't need=20
> another bit. As slow-admission marking is technically the same as=20
> stop-admission marking, this solution should be compliant with the=20
> existing philosophy.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>     Michael
>
>  =20
>> Thanks
>> phil
>>  =20
>>    =20
>
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 16 05:36:33 2006
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Thread-Index: AcbxAa2aRdv3880lSayC/ZYig70USwABCttw
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Hello Michael,

I share the philosophy expressed by your statement. The resulting=20
drafts hopefully separate between "basic" and "optional"=20
PCN features.

Regards,

R=FCdiger

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]
|Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 11:00 AM
|To: Geib, R=FCdiger
|Cc: pcn@ietf.org
|Subject: Re: [PCN] Protection against flash crowds: slow-admission
|marking
|
|
|Hi Ruediger,
|
|once more again regarding the number of additional code=20
|points. I don't=20
|think that all four markings need to be mandatory. There may=20
|be networks=20
|operating only with stop-admission marking to perform=20
|admission control.=20
|Others wish to have preemption and need, therefore, excess-traffic=20
|marking. And those expecting flash crowds can implement slow-admission=20
|marking in addition. Thus, there is a tradeoff between the number of=20
|used features and the code point consumption.
|
|Best regards,
|
|    Michael
|
|Geib, Ruediger wrote:
|> Hello Michael,
|>
|> I mentioned earlier that I also prefer PCN to work without signaling=20
|> between backbone routers.=20
|>
|> I'm open to a discussion on mechanisms and code point consumption on=20
|> IP level. One of my main concerns is to allow operation of PCN=20
|> within an MPLS domain. There, the overall codepoint space to=20
|> differentiate traffic or to congestion mark it is 3 bits or=20
|> 8 Codepoints. That means no matter what is specified for PCN on=20
|> IP level, a simplified and interoperable implementation should=20
|> be possible on MPLS level.
|>
|> Regards,
|>
|> R=FCdiger
|>
|>
|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]
|> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:03 AM
|> To: philip.eardley@bt.com
|> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
|> Subject: [PCN] Protection against flash crowds:=20
|slow-admission marking
|>
|>
|> Dear Phil,
|>
|> yes, I proposed "quizzing" the routers along the way for=20
|their unused CL=20
|> capacity. When only little capacity is left, the ingress=20
|slows down its=20
|> admission rate to, e.g. (1 Mbit/s)/10 s. Note that this does=20
|not require=20
|> the routers to keep any states.
|>
|> But if quizzing still too complex, "slow-admission marking" by=20
|> intermediate PCN nodes could be used:
|>
|> 1) no marking: there is lot's of capacity on all links and=20
|new flows can=20
|> be admitted as fast as possible
|> 2) slow-admission marking: only little admissible capacity=20
|is left and=20
|> the link runs the risk being overloaded by a flash crowd=20
|when a large=20
|> rate of new flows is admitted within a short interval, therefore,=20
|> additional flows should be admitted only slowly.
|> 3) stop-admission marking: the admissible link capacity is=20
|consumed and=20
|> no more flows over this link should be admitted
|> 4) excess-traffic marking: the link carries too much traffic=20
|and flows=20
|> should be preempted
|>
|> Example:
|> a) slow-admission threshold: 10 Mbit/s
|> b) admissible link capacity: 20 Mbit/s
|> c) tolerable link capacity 40 Mbit/s
|> d) physical link bandwidth: 50 Mbit/s
|>
|> a) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the slow-admission=20
|> threshold, all packets are slow-admission marked; the egress=20
|signals the=20
|> information back to the respective ingress routers which=20
|slow down their=20
|> admission rate for the specific egress to, e.g., 1=20
|(Mbit/s)/10 s. As a=20
|> consequence, flash crowds cannot swamp a medium loaded system.
|> b)  If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the admissible link=20
|> capacity, all packets are stop-admission marked; the egress=20
|signals the=20
|> information back to the respective ingress routers and the they stop=20
|> admitting further calls to the specific egress.
|> c) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the tolerable=20
|link capacity,=20
|> all excess packets are excess-traffic marked; the egress signals the=20
|> information back to the respective ingress routers and the=20
|they preempt=20
|> the necessary number of calls to the specific egress.
|> d) If the CL traffic rate on a link exceeds the physical=20
|link capacity,=20
|> packet loss and heavy delay occurs.
|>
|>
|> As 1), 3), and 4) already exist, two bits are needed for=20
|encoding the=20
|> marking anyway, therefore, the implementation of 2) wouldn't need=20
|> another bit. As slow-admission marking is technically the same as=20
|> stop-admission marking, this solution should be compliant with the=20
|> existing philosophy.
|>
|> Best wishes,
|>
|>     Michael
|>
|>  =20
|>> Thanks
|>> phil
|>>  =20
|>>    =20
|>
|>  =20
|
|--=20
|Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
|University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
|Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
|phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
|mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
|http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
|
|
|_______________________________________________
|PCN mailing list
|PCN@ietf.org
|https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
|

_______________________________________________
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PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



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Dear all,
=20
1) The new San Diego IETF agenda lists the PCN BOF in the 9-11:30am slot
on Monday 11/6.
=20
2) Here is an updated Draft Agenda for the PCN BOF.  We believe it
accommodates all requests we received so far.   We need to finalize the
agenda by October 25, so if you have any further slot requests or feel
that a previous request has not been accommodated, please let us know by
October 23.
Draft Agenda:

1. Agenda dashing and administrativia (5 min)

2. Overview and Introduction (20 min)

3. Key Open Items Issues (10 min)

4. Overview of existing work (10 min)

5. Open Discussion on PCN (20 min)

6. Proposed Charter (20 min)

7. Discussion of Proposed Charter (20 min)

8. Summary and conclusions (10 min)

Anna and Scott, PCN BOF Chairs


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D893004915-17102006>Dear=20
all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D893004915-17102006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D893004915-17102006>1) The =
new San Diego=20
IETF agenda lists the PCN BOF in the 9-11:30am slot on Monday=20
11/6.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D893004915-17102006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D893004915-17102006>2)=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D893004915-17102006>Here is an=20
updated Draft Agenda for the PCN BOF.&nbsp; We believe it accommodates =
all=20
requests we received so far.&nbsp;&nbsp; We need to finalize the agenda =
by=20
October 25, so if you have any further slot requests or feel that a =
previous=20
request has not been accommodated, please let us know by October=20
23.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=3D893004915-17102006>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Draft Agenda:</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. Agenda dashing and administrativia (5=20
min)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. Overview and Introduction (20 =
min)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. Key Open Items Issues (10 =
min)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4. Overview of existing work (10 =
min)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>5. Open Discussion on PCN (20 =
min)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>6. Proposed Charter (20 min)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>7. Discussion of Proposed Charter (20 =
min)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>8. Summary and conclusions (10 =
min)</FONT></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D893004915-17102006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anna and =
Scott,=20
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D893004915-17102006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>PCN BOF=20
Chairs</FONT></SPAN></P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: [PCN] New Deployment Model
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Thread-Topic: [PCN] New Deployment Model
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From: "Jozef Babiarz" <babiarz@nortel.com>
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt


	Title		: SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption
	Author(s)	: J. Babiarz, et al.
	Filename	: draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt
	Pages		: 20
	Date		: 2006-10-16
=09
   This framework defines a method of providing Explicit Congestion
   Control to real-time inelastic traffic like voice and video through
   the use of session admission control and preemption mechanisms.  This
   approach uses the Pre-Congestion Notification Marking (PCN) [1]
   mechanism.  PCN marking is deployed in routers to measure and convey
   two levels of onset of congestion with the SIP controlled endpoints
   responding to the marking.  This approach is different from what is
   defined in An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for Pre-Congestion
   Notification [3], as here the admission and preemption control
   function resides in the application (either in the endpoint or the
   application server that controls the endpoint.  This framework is
   focused on using Session Initiated Protocol (SIP) as the application
   signaling protocol but other application signaling protocols could be
   extended for this purpose.

Looking forward to having a discussion of this approach on the list.=20


Regards, Joe
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
Email: babiarz@nortel.com


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<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">A New Internet-Draft is available from the =
on-line Internet-Drafts directories.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">A URL for this Internet-Draft =
is:</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.=
txt"><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><U><FONT =
COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt=
</FONT></U></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></A><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">Title&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : SIP Controlled Admission =
and Preemption</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">Author(s)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : J. =
Babiarz, et al.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">Filename&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
: draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">Pages&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : 20</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">Date&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
2006-10-16</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; This framework defines a method of providing Explicit =
Congestion</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; Control to real-time inelastic traffic like voice and =
video through</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; the use of session admission control and preemption =
mechanisms.&nbsp; This</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; approach uses the Pre-Congestion Notification Marking =
(PCN) [1]</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; mechanism.&nbsp; PCN marking is deployed in routers to =
measure and convey</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; two levels of onset of congestion with the SIP =
controlled endpoints</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; responding to the marking.&nbsp; This approach is =
different from what is</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined in An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for =
Pre-Congestion</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; Notification [3], as here the admission and preemption =
control</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; function resides in the application (either in the =
endpoint or the</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; application server that controls the endpoint.&nbsp; =
This framework is</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; focused on using Session Initiated Protocol (SIP) as =
the application</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; signaling protocol but other application signaling =
protocols could be</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp; extended for this purpose.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Looking forward to</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">having a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">discussion of this approach on =
the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> list.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> </SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><I></I></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><I></I></SPAN><I><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></I><A =
NAME=3D""><I><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000080" SIZE=3D4 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Regards, Joe</FONT></SPAN></I></A><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Email: =
babiarz@nortel.com</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 19 02:39:10 2006
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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:39:34 +0200
From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
Organization: University of Wuerzburg
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To: Jozef Babiarz <babiarz@nortel.com>, pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] New Deployment Model
References: <9671A92C3C8B5744BC97F855F7CB64650CAB914A@zcarhxm1.corp.nortel.com>
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Dear Jozef,

I read your draft. Here are my comments.

4.1 If the admissible rate is exceeded, ALL packets running over this 
element must be marked. If the supportable rate is exceeded, only a 
fraction of the packets is marked accordingly, to allow the end systems 
to determine the strength of the overload.

General comments:
* As SIP is an end-to-end solution, this application requires all PCN 
clouds to have the same semantic for the encoding. I can imagine other 
admission control support, e.g., using RSVP based on traffic 
descriptors. If the SIP control is agnostic to that and admits new calls 
only based on PCN-feedback, this might become a problem.
* Another problem might be that only SIP controlled applications react 
to overload while other applications using the same service class are 
not responsive.

Best wishes,

    Michael


Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>
> _http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt_
>
>         Title           : SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption
>
>         Author(s)       : J. Babiarz, et al.
>
>         Filename        : draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt
>
>         Pages           : 20
>
>         Date            : 2006-10-16
>
>        
>
>    This framework defines a method of providing Explicit Congestion
>
>    Control to real-time inelastic traffic like voice and video through
>
>    the use of session admission control and preemption mechanisms.  This
>
>    approach uses the Pre-Congestion Notification Marking (PCN) [1]
>
>    mechanism.  PCN marking is deployed in routers to measure and convey
>
>    two levels of onset of congestion with the SIP controlled endpoints
>
>    responding to the marking.  This approach is different from what is
>
>    defined in An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for Pre-Congestion
>
>    Notification [3], as here the admission and preemption control
>
>    function resides in the application (either in the endpoint or the
>
>    application server that controls the endpoint.  This framework is
>
>    focused on using Session Initiated Protocol (SIP) as the application
>
>    signaling protocol but other application signaling protocols could be
>
>    extended for this purpose.
>
> Looking forward to having a discussion of this approach on the list.
>
> ///Regards, Joe/
>
> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>
> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>   

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 19 06:34:02 2006
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To: menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" <khchan@nortel.com>
Subject: Re: [PCN] New Deployment Model
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Hi Michael:
Please see in-line below.
-- Kwok --

At 02:39 AM 10/19/2006, Michael Menth wrote:
>Dear Jozef,
>
>I read your draft. Here are my comments.
>
>4.1 If the admissible rate is exceeded, ALL packets running over 
>this element must be marked. If the supportable rate is exceeded, 
>only a fraction of the packets is marked accordingly, to allow the 
>end systems to determine the strength of the overload.
>
>General comments:
>* As SIP is an end-to-end solution, this application requires all 
>PCN clouds to have the same semantic for the encoding. I can imagine 
>other admission control support, e.g., using RSVP based on traffic 
>descriptors. If the SIP control is agnostic to that and admits new 
>calls only based on PCN-feedback, this might become a problem.

SIP proxy can also be used.  Hence this is not just an end-to-end solution.

The PCN encoding will need to use the agreed on meaning when it reach the PENs.
But if some domain in the middle does not support PCN, and instead 
use some other
admission method, that domain will need to indicate the PCN condition 
(think of this
domain be represented as one hop of PCN).  This view may help the interfacing
between different methods.
Also, the use of PCN will allow the network to change routes, etc in 
the middle (PINs).
Hence the SIP control will be agnostic to the exact packet route used 
and the route's
exact method.  For example if QoS routing is employed in the 
middle.  That QoS routing
capable region may not cause PCN Marking by reacting and solving any 
QoS problem
before indicating using PCN Marking is needed.

>* Another problem might be that only SIP controlled applications 
>react to overload while other applications using the same service 
>class are not responsive.

Yes.  The PCN capable traffic will need to be separated from the other traffic.
This is also true with ECN (RFC 3168) with TCP.  What happens if some 
end points are not
good citizens?
This becomes a fairness issue.

Hope this helps.


>Best wishes,
>
>    Michael
>
>
>Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>>
>>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>>directories.
>>
>>A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>>
>>_http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt_
>>
>>         Title           : SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption
>>
>>         Author(s)       : J. Babiarz, et al.
>>
>>         Filename        : draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt
>>
>>         Pages           : 20
>>
>>         Date            : 2006-10-16
>>
>>
>>
>>    This framework defines a method of providing Explicit Congestion
>>
>>    Control to real-time inelastic traffic like voice and video through
>>
>>    the use of session admission control and preemption mechanisms.  This
>>
>>    approach uses the Pre-Congestion Notification Marking (PCN) [1]
>>
>>    mechanism.  PCN marking is deployed in routers to measure and convey
>>
>>    two levels of onset of congestion with the SIP controlled endpoints
>>
>>    responding to the marking.  This approach is different from what is
>>
>>    defined in An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for Pre-Congestion
>>
>>    Notification [3], as here the admission and preemption control
>>
>>    function resides in the application (either in the endpoint or the
>>
>>    application server that controls the endpoint.  This framework is
>>
>>    focused on using Session Initiated Protocol (SIP) as the application
>>
>>    signaling protocol but other application signaling protocols could be
>>
>>    extended for this purpose.
>>
>>Looking forward to having a discussion of this approach on the list.
>>
>>///Regards, Joe/
>>
>>Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>>
>>Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>PCN mailing list
>>PCN@ietf.org
>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>
>
>--
>Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
>University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
>Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
>phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
>mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
>http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 20 00:15:37 2006
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Subject: RE: [PCN] New Deployment Model
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Michael, see my explanation below, I hope they help.

Regards, Joe
QoS & Network Architecture
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
Email: babiarz@nortel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:40 AM
To: Babiarz, Jozef (CAR:0S03); pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] New Deployment Model

Dear Jozef,

I read your draft. Here are my comments.

4.1 If the admissible rate is exceeded, ALL packets running over this=20
element must be marked. If the supportable rate is exceeded, only a=20
fraction of the packets is marked accordingly, to allow the end systems=20
to determine the strength of the overload.

[Joe] To block admission of new sessions, it is desirable that all
packets in that service calls are marked by the element that is
experience that bandwidth utilization above admissible level. The main
reason being that during session setup SIP controlled endpoints are
sending probe packets to test the path and if the network element in
questions did not mark all packets belonging to the service class, the
endpoint most like would not see any marking and would admit new
session.=20
Now if the supportable rate is exceeded, one packet every n bytes of
excess traffic is marked. What I'm suggestion is that the network
element that experience traffic above the supportable rate selects the
flow to be removed by marking a packet similar to what ECN does for TCP
flows to reduce sending rate. In this deployment model normal there is
only one flow per endpoint so trying to measure the level of overload is
not that practical. For deployments scenarios where edge node has many
flows excess rate may be measured by counting the number of market
packets and multiplying by n bytes over counting time. =20

General comments:
* As SIP is an end-to-end solution, this application requires all PCN=20
clouds to have the same semantic for the encoding. I can imagine other=20
admission control support, e.g., using RSVP based on traffic=20
descriptors. If the SIP control is agnostic to that and admits new calls

only based on PCN-feedback, this might become a problem.

[Joe] Yes both endpoints need to use the same semantics or be aware that
semantic are different. This approach allows other admission control
methods to be used in different network segments. Should RSVP be used,
in one network segment the reservation would need to be completed before
SIP session would be allowed to continue or if a different approach was
used the probe packets would need to be received by the other endpoint
before session setup could be completed. Can you explain a situation
which would cause a problem?

* Another problem might be that only SIP controlled applications react=20
to overload while other applications using the same service class are=20
not responsive.

 [Joe] Yes, this is an issue. One approach is to use the Not-ECT "00"
codepoint to represent flows that are not control by this mechanize or
to use a different DS codepoint. This is an issue that needs to be
discussed on how best it can be resolved. =20

Best wishes,

    Michael


Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=20
> directories.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>
> _http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt_
>
>         Title           : SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption
>
>         Author(s)       : J. Babiarz, et al.
>
>         Filename        : draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt
>
>         Pages           : 20
>
>         Date            : 2006-10-16
>
>       =20
>
>    This framework defines a method of providing Explicit Congestion
>
>    Control to real-time inelastic traffic like voice and video through
>
>    the use of session admission control and preemption mechanisms.
This
>
>    approach uses the Pre-Congestion Notification Marking (PCN) [1]
>
>    mechanism.  PCN marking is deployed in routers to measure and
convey
>
>    two levels of onset of congestion with the SIP controlled endpoints
>
>    responding to the marking.  This approach is different from what is
>
>    defined in An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for Pre-Congestion
>
>    Notification [3], as here the admission and preemption control
>
>    function resides in the application (either in the endpoint or the
>
>    application server that controls the endpoint.  This framework is
>
>    focused on using Session Initiated Protocol (SIP) as the
application
>
>    signaling protocol but other application signaling protocols could
be
>
>    extended for this purpose.
>
> Looking forward to having a discussion of this approach on the list.
>
> ///Regards, Joe/
>
> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>
> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 20 09:32:28 2006
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Dear Jozef,

see inline!

Jozef Babiarz wrote:
> Michael, see my explanation below, I hope they help.
>
> Regards, Joe
> QoS & Network Architecture
> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:40 AM
> To: Babiarz, Jozef (CAR:0S03); pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [PCN] New Deployment Model
>
> Dear Jozef,
>
> I read your draft. Here are my comments.
>
> 4.1 If the admissible rate is exceeded, ALL packets running over this 
> element must be marked. If the supportable rate is exceeded, only a 
> fraction of the packets is marked accordingly, to allow the end systems 
> to determine the strength of the overload.
>
> [Joe] To block admission of new sessions, it is desirable that all
> packets in that service calls are marked by the element that is
> experience that bandwidth utilization above admissible level. The main
> reason being that during session setup SIP controlled endpoints are
> sending probe packets to test the path and if the network element in
> questions did not mark all packets belonging to the service class, the
> endpoint most like would not see any marking and would admit new
> session. 
> Now if the supportable rate is exceeded, one packet every n bytes of
> excess traffic is marked. What I'm suggestion is that the network
> element that experience traffic above the supportable rate selects the
> flow to be removed by marking a packet similar to what ECN does for TCP
> flows to reduce sending rate. In this deployment model normal there is
> only one flow per endpoint so trying to measure the level of overload is
> not that practical. For deployments scenarios where edge node has many
> flows excess rate may be measured by counting the number of market
> packets and multiplying by n bytes over counting time.  
>
> General comments:
> * As SIP is an end-to-end solution, this application requires all PCN 
> clouds to have the same semantic for the encoding. I can imagine other 
> admission control support, e.g., using RSVP based on traffic 
> descriptors. If the SIP control is agnostic to that and admits new calls
>
> only based on PCN-feedback, this might become a problem.
>
> [Joe] Yes both endpoints need to use the same semantics or be aware that
> semantic are different. This approach allows other admission control
> methods to be used in different network segments. Should RSVP be used,
> in one network segment the reservation would need to be completed before
> SIP session would be allowed to continue or if a different approach was
> used the probe packets would need to be received by the other endpoint
> before session setup could be completed. Can you explain a situation
> which would cause a problem?
>   
I don't know how this should work. Does the probe packet trigger a 
reservation request through the RSVP-controlled cloud? Probably, we are 
here already right in the middle of a discussion how to achieve 
end-to-end QoS while PCN is a local solution for a PCN domain. I can 
imagine that different domains have different QoS protocols/mechanisms 
and that there must be another protocol talking with these domains to 
find out whether a flow can be admitted end-to-end. From my perspective, 
SIP should be based on such an end-to-end protocol, otherwise the 
solution can be safely applied only within a PCN-domain, e.g., within a 
comany, or SIP proxies must be used as workaround as Kwok mentioned in 
his last email.

Best wishes,

    Michael
> * Another problem might be that only SIP controlled applications react 
> to overload while other applications using the same service class are 
> not responsive.
>
>  [Joe] Yes, this is an issue. One approach is to use the Not-ECT "00"
> codepoint to represent flows that are not control by this mechanize or
> to use a different DS codepoint. This is an issue that needs to be
> discussed on how best it can be resolved.  
>
> Best wishes,
>
>     Michael
>
>
> Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>   
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>> directories.
>>
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>>
>> _http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt_
>>
>>         Title           : SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption
>>
>>         Author(s)       : J. Babiarz, et al.
>>
>>         Filename        : draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt
>>
>>         Pages           : 20
>>
>>         Date            : 2006-10-16
>>
>>        
>>
>>    This framework defines a method of providing Explicit Congestion
>>
>>    Control to real-time inelastic traffic like voice and video through
>>
>>    the use of session admission control and preemption mechanisms.
>>     
> This
>   
>>    approach uses the Pre-Congestion Notification Marking (PCN) [1]
>>
>>    mechanism.  PCN marking is deployed in routers to measure and
>>     
> convey
>   
>>    two levels of onset of congestion with the SIP controlled endpoints
>>
>>    responding to the marking.  This approach is different from what is
>>
>>    defined in An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for Pre-Congestion
>>
>>    Notification [3], as here the admission and preemption control
>>
>>    function resides in the application (either in the endpoint or the
>>
>>    application server that controls the endpoint.  This framework is
>>
>>    focused on using Session Initiated Protocol (SIP) as the
>>     
> application
>   
>>    signaling protocol but other application signaling protocols could
>>     
> be
>   
>>    extended for this purpose.
>>
>> Looking forward to having a discussion of this approach on the list.
>>
>> ///Regards, Joe/
>>
>> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>>
>> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>>
>>
>>     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>   
>>     
>
>   

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 20 10:11:45 2006
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Subject: RE: [PCN] New Deployment Model
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:11:32 -0400
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Michael wrote:
I don't know how this should work. Does the probe packet trigger a
reservation request through the RSVP-controlled cloud?=20
[Joe] No. SIP triggers reservation request in RSVP-controlled cloud. The
assumption is SIP precondition (RFC 3312) is used in both RSVP and this
approach. Alerting of the called party (admission) is delayed until all
conditions are met.=20

Probably, we are here already right in the middle of a discussion how to
achieve end-to-end QoS while PCN is a local solution for a PCN domain.=20
[Joe] I do not view PCN being only a local solution. Yes for simplicity,
our initial trust is to focus on a single domain and delay all the trust
issues between different domains, but PCN like ECN can be end-to-end.

I can imagine that different domains have different QoS
protocols/mechanisms and that there must be another protocol talking
with these domains to find out whether a flow can be admitted
end-to-end. From my perspective, SIP should be based on such an
end-to-end protocol, otherwise the solution can be safely applied only
within a PCN-domain, e.g., within a company, or SIP proxies must be used
as workaround as Kwok mentioned in his last email.
[Joe] I think we are in agreement. If a domain use other than the PCN
method for admission control, that domain needs a method to inform SIP
that it can or can not support that new session.


Regards, Joe
QoS & Network Architecture
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
Email: babiarz@nortel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 9:33 AM
To: Babiarz, Jozef (CAR:0S03)
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] New Deployment Model

Dear Jozef,

see inline!

Jozef Babiarz wrote:
> Michael, see my explanation below, I hope they help.
>
> Regards, Joe
> QoS & Network Architecture
> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:40 AM
> To: Babiarz, Jozef (CAR:0S03); pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [PCN] New Deployment Model
>
> Dear Jozef,
>
> I read your draft. Here are my comments.
>
> 4.1 If the admissible rate is exceeded, ALL packets running over this=20
> element must be marked. If the supportable rate is exceeded, only a=20
> fraction of the packets is marked accordingly, to allow the end
systems=20
> to determine the strength of the overload.
>
> [Joe] To block admission of new sessions, it is desirable that all
> packets in that service calls are marked by the element that is
> experience that bandwidth utilization above admissible level. The main
> reason being that during session setup SIP controlled endpoints are
> sending probe packets to test the path and if the network element in
> questions did not mark all packets belonging to the service class, the
> endpoint most like would not see any marking and would admit new
> session.=20
> Now if the supportable rate is exceeded, one packet every n bytes of
> excess traffic is marked. What I'm suggestion is that the network
> element that experience traffic above the supportable rate selects the
> flow to be removed by marking a packet similar to what ECN does for
TCP
> flows to reduce sending rate. In this deployment model normal there is
> only one flow per endpoint so trying to measure the level of overload
is
> not that practical. For deployments scenarios where edge node has many
> flows excess rate may be measured by counting the number of market
> packets and multiplying by n bytes over counting time. =20
>
> General comments:
> * As SIP is an end-to-end solution, this application requires all PCN=20
> clouds to have the same semantic for the encoding. I can imagine other

> admission control support, e.g., using RSVP based on traffic=20
> descriptors. If the SIP control is agnostic to that and admits new
calls
>
> only based on PCN-feedback, this might become a problem.
>
> [Joe] Yes both endpoints need to use the same semantics or be aware
that
> semantic are different. This approach allows other admission control
> methods to be used in different network segments. Should RSVP be used,
> in one network segment the reservation would need to be completed
before
> SIP session would be allowed to continue or if a different approach
was
> used the probe packets would need to be received by the other endpoint
> before session setup could be completed. Can you explain a situation
> which would cause a problem?
>  =20
I don't know how this should work. Does the probe packet trigger a=20
reservation request through the RSVP-controlled cloud? Probably, we are=20
here already right in the middle of a discussion how to achieve=20
end-to-end QoS while PCN is a local solution for a PCN domain. I can=20
imagine that different domains have different QoS protocols/mechanisms=20
and that there must be another protocol talking with these domains to=20
find out whether a flow can be admitted end-to-end. From my perspective,

SIP should be based on such an end-to-end protocol, otherwise the=20
solution can be safely applied only within a PCN-domain, e.g., within a=20
comany, or SIP proxies must be used as workaround as Kwok mentioned in=20
his last email.

Best wishes,

    Michael
> * Another problem might be that only SIP controlled applications react

> to overload while other applications using the same service class are=20
> not responsive.
>
>  [Joe] Yes, this is an issue. One approach is to use the Not-ECT "00"
> codepoint to represent flows that are not control by this mechanize or
> to use a different DS codepoint. This is an issue that needs to be
> discussed on how best it can be resolved. =20
>
> Best wishes,
>
>     Michael
>
>
> Jozef Babiarz wrote:
>  =20
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=20
>> directories.
>>
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>>
>>
_http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt_
>>
>>         Title           : SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption
>>
>>         Author(s)       : J. Babiarz, et al.
>>
>>         Filename        : draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt
>>
>>         Pages           : 20
>>
>>         Date            : 2006-10-16
>>
>>       =20
>>
>>    This framework defines a method of providing Explicit Congestion
>>
>>    Control to real-time inelastic traffic like voice and video
through
>>
>>    the use of session admission control and preemption mechanisms.
>>    =20
> This
>  =20
>>    approach uses the Pre-Congestion Notification Marking (PCN) [1]
>>
>>    mechanism.  PCN marking is deployed in routers to measure and
>>    =20
> convey
>  =20
>>    two levels of onset of congestion with the SIP controlled
endpoints
>>
>>    responding to the marking.  This approach is different from what
is
>>
>>    defined in An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for Pre-Congestion
>>
>>    Notification [3], as here the admission and preemption control
>>
>>    function resides in the application (either in the endpoint or the
>>
>>    application server that controls the endpoint.  This framework is
>>
>>    focused on using Session Initiated Protocol (SIP) as the
>>    =20
> application
>  =20
>>    signaling protocol but other application signaling protocols could
>>    =20
> be
>  =20
>>    extended for this purpose.
>>
>> Looking forward to having a discussion of this approach on the list.
>>
>> ///Regards, Joe/
>>
>> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
>>
>> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>>
>>
>>    =20
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  =20
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>  =20
>>    =20
>
>  =20

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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Hi,

=20

Attached is updated draft draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-04.txt.
Please post.

=20

Thanks,

Philip Eardley=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
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draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-04.txt.&nbsp;
Please post.</span></font></p>

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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 23 23:30:10 2006
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Hi:
Please notice I have submitted an update to the Problem-Statement draft.
Please see the link to the draft at:
   http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt

There were couple of minor cleanups.
I have also added a new section just to set up the discussion of trust,
with the trust assumptions and security still in the assumptions and
security sections (as they were in -00).
Thanks!
-- Kwok --


At 03:04 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
>This is the submission of an update (version 01) to an individual draft.
>
>Title:         Pre-Congestion Notification Problem Statement
>
>Filename:  draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>
>Abstract:
>    DiffServ mechanisms have been developed to support Quality of Service
>    (QoS).  However, the level of assurance that can be provided with
>    DiffServ without substantial over-provisioning is limited.  Pre-
>    Congestion Notification (PCN) investigates the use of per-flow
>    admission control to provide the required service guarantees for the
>    admitted traffic.  While admission control will protect the QoS under
>    normal operating conditions, an additional flow pre-emption mechanism
>    is necessary in the times of heavy congestion (e.g. caused by route
>    changes due to link or node failure).
>
>    This document provides a problem statement on the addition of flow
>    admission control and flow pre-emption functionality to a DiffServ
>    network, in particular for the support of real time services such as
>    voice and video.
>
>
>If there is any question or problem related to this submission,
>please contact:
>Kwok Ho Chan
>E-Mail:  khchan@nortel.com
>Phone:  978-288-8175
>
>The text version of the draft is attached.
>
>Thank You!
>-- Kwok --
>
>
>


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Dear all,

Below is an updated proposed charter for the discussion at the PCN BOF
in San Diego.

Also,  a quick update on PCN-related draft activities:  the following
drafts related to PCN work have recently been updated and/or posted for
the first time:

draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt  (this is PCN Problem Statement)
draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-04.txt (this is PCN architecture)
draft-briscoe-cl-phb-03 (this is PCN marking)
draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00 (this is Sip-controlled Admission and
Preepmtion)
draft-zhang-pcn-performance-evaluation-00.txt (this is PCN simulation
draft)
draft-charny-pcn-single-marking-00.txt (this is about using single
marking for PCN admission and pre-emption)

Comments on all of these are welcome!

Regards,
Anna
---------------------

PCN Draft Charter (Pre-Congestion Notification)

The PCN WG will tackle the problem of how to provide scalable, resilient
admission control and strong QoS assurance while using packet marking
techniques.=20

Current attempts to deliver QoS using only packet marking (e.g.
DiffServ) are limited in the level of QoS assurance that can be provided
without substantial over-provisioning. To improve the QoS assurance, PCN
will add flow admission control and flow pre-emption. In normal
circumstances admission control should protect the QoS of previously
admitted flows. In times of heavy congestion (for example caused by
route changes due to link or router failure) pre-emption of some flows
should preserve the QoS of remaining flows. While the WG will address
both admission and pre-emption, it is assumed that these mechanisms can
be used independently of each other, and the use of one does not mandate
the use of the other. =20

The initial scope of the WG is the use of PCN within a single DiffServ
region. The overall approach will be based on a separation of
functionality between the interior routers and edge nodes of the
DiffServ region. Interior routers mark packet headers when their traffic
is above a certain level, as an early warning of incipient congestion
("pre-congestion"); this builds on concepts from RFC 3168 "The Addition
of Explicit Congestion Notification to IP". Edge nodes of the DiffServ
Region monitor the markings and that information is used to make flow
admission control and pre-emption decisions. The decisions could be made
by the edge nodes or by a centralized system (which is informed of the
edge nodes measurements).=20

The WG will address the following specific problems and develop
standards   track solutions to them:

1. When should an interior router mark a packet (i.e. at what traffic
level) in order to give early warning of its own congestion?
2. How should such a mark be encoded in a packet (in the ECN and/or DSCP
fields)?
3. How should these markings (at packet granularity) be converted into=20
admission control and flow pre-emption decisions (at flow granularity)?

To support this, the WG will work on the following Informational
documents:

1. a Problem Statement, to describe the problems the group is tackling=20
and the assumptions made
2. at least two deployment models, initially to help focus the problem
statement and later to check that the solutions being developed satisfy
the deployment scenario. Possible deployment models may be:=20

   (a) IntServ over DiffServ (RFC2998): the DiffServ region is
PCN-enabled and its edge nodes decide about admission and flow
pre-emption
   (b) SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption: routers within the
DiffServ region are PCN-capable and trusted SIP endpoints (gateway or
host) perform admission and flow pre-emption =20
   (c) Pseudowire: PCN may be used as a congestion avoidance mechanism
for end-user deployed pseudowires (collaborate with the PWE3 WG)

3. a generic analysis of the signaling extensions required to support
PCN. Note that extensions/enhancements to specific signaling protocols=20
(e.g. RSVP, NSIS, SIP) will not be done in the PCN WG.

4. at least one example solution implementing the framework and its
performance evaluation (e.g. simulation results), to provide evidence of
the viability of the proposed standard in the proposed deployment models

5. an analysis of the tradeoffs of different encoding possibilities
(e.g. ECN and DCSP marking)

The initial scope of the WG will restrict the problem space in the
following ways:

1. By assuming the PCN-enabled Internet Region is a controlled
environment, i.e. all the interior routers and edge nodes of the region
run PCN and trust each other

2. By assuming there are many flows on any bottleneck link in the
PCN-enabled region=20

3. By focusing on the QoS assurance required by real time applications
generating inelastic traffic like voice and video requiring low delay,
jitter and packet loss, i.e. as defined by the Controlled Load  Service
[RFC2211].=20

4. By keeping specific handling of emergency and other precedence (911,
GETS, WPS, MLPP etc.) calls out of scope of the WG while (a) ensuring
that the edge nodes are not precluded from taking appropriate actions
that may be necessary for handling such calls and (b) assuming that PCN
Internal Nodes may not be precedence-aware but are DSCP aware.=20

Subsequent re-chartering may investigate solutions for when some of
these=20
restrictions are not in place.=20

Topics out of scope for the WG include a general investigation of
admission control mechanisms. =20

The WG will draw on the substantial prior academic and IETF work on=20
measurement-based admission control.=20

Milestones

Nov 2006          initial Problem statement
Nov 2006          initial deployment models
March 2007        initial router marking behavior (including encoding)
March 2007        initial flow admission control and pre-emption
mechanism (including edge node measurements)
March/July 2007   submit Problem statement
March/July 2007   submit deployment models
Nov 2007          submit router marking behavior
Nov 2007/Mar 2008 submit flow admission control and pre-emption
mechanism
Nov 2007          initial signaling analysis
Mar 2008          re-charter or close

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Hi all,

I browsed through the drafts and have some comments on Section 5 
"Aggregate Traffic Characteristics" which says:

"However, too little [traffic] variation can also be a problem [for the 
PCN marking].  For example, if all the sources are constant bit rate and 
are synchronised, then the total traffic level at a router's interface 
could be (almost) at its capacity and all packets could still be 
serviced instantly.  However, admitting one more flow could tip the 
router over its capacity, so its queue grew indefinitely until it had to 
drop packets.  "Some" traffic variation means that as the traffic level 
nears the capacity limit, some packets are PCN-marked but there's still 
enough capacity to cope with the traffic fluctuations.  Hence new flows 
can be blocked and packets are never dropped."

With PCN, all packets are "stop admission marked" if the currently 
observed rate exceeds the configured "admissible interface rate". The 
configured "admissible interface rate" is usually substantially smaller 
than the physical link bandwidth.

In the context of RED marking, only those packets are marked that exceed 
a certain threshold of the physical queue which is served at link rate. 
If the traffic exceeds the link rate preliminarily on a small time 
scale, a queue builds up and some of the queued packets are marked. This 
can also happen if the aggregate rate is low, but if bursts arrive. In 
contrast, if the rate of the aggregate reaches almost the link 
bandwidth, but if it is sufficiently smooth, no queue builds up. Thus, 
the problem with RED-like marking is that it can give EARLY warning only 
if the current traffic rate is below the link rate but exceeds it due to 
short term variations.

 From my perspective, PCN marking does not have this problem because it 
reacts if the sent rate exceeds the configured rate and that can be well 
observed on a larger time scale than packet level, short term variations 
are not required to this end. Therefore, PCN marking leads to more 
stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning 
if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a 
medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done 
also for extremely smooth CBR traffic.

Best wishes,

    Michael

Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
> Hi:
> Please notice I have submitted an update to the Problem-Statement draft.
> Please see the link to the draft at:
>   http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>
> There were couple of minor cleanups.
> I have also added a new section just to set up the discussion of trust,
> with the trust assumptions and security still in the assumptions and
> security sections (as they were in -00).
> Thanks!
> -- Kwok --
>
>
> At 03:04 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
>> This is the submission of an update (version 01) to an individual draft.
>>
>> Title:         Pre-Congestion Notification Problem Statement
>>
>> Filename:  draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    DiffServ mechanisms have been developed to support Quality of Service
>>    (QoS).  However, the level of assurance that can be provided with
>>    DiffServ without substantial over-provisioning is limited.  Pre-
>>    Congestion Notification (PCN) investigates the use of per-flow
>>    admission control to provide the required service guarantees for the
>>    admitted traffic.  While admission control will protect the QoS under
>>    normal operating conditions, an additional flow pre-emption mechanism
>>    is necessary in the times of heavy congestion (e.g. caused by route
>>    changes due to link or node failure).
>>
>>    This document provides a problem statement on the addition of flow
>>    admission control and flow pre-emption functionality to a DiffServ
>>    network, in particular for the support of real time services such as
>>    voice and video.
>>
>>
>> If there is any question or problem related to this submission,
>> please contact:
>> Kwok Ho Chan
>> E-Mail:  khchan@nortel.com
>> Phone:  978-288-8175
>>
>> The text version of the draft is attached.
>>
>> Thank You!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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TSVWG                                                        B. Briscoe=20
Internet Draft                                               P. Eardley =20
draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-04.txt                 D. Songhurst =20
Expires: April 2007                                                  BT=20
=20
                                                        F. Le Faucheur=20
                                                              A. Charny=20
                                                    Cisco Systems, Inc=20
=20
                                                           J. Babiarz=20
                                                                K. Chan=20
                                                            S. Dudley=20
                                                               Nortel=20
=20
                                                        G. Karagiannis=20
                                       University of Twente / Ericsson=20
=20
                                                             A. Bader=20
                                                          L. Westberg=20
                                                             Ericsson=20
=20
                                                      25 October, 2006=20
                                                                     =20
                                     =20
     An edge-to-edge Deployment Model for Pre-Congestion Notification: =20
                 Admission Control over a DiffServ Region=20
                draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-04.txt=20


Status of this Memo=20

   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any=20
   applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware=20
   have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes=20
   aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.=20

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering=20
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that=20
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
   Drafts.=20

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months=20
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any=20
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference=20
   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress".=20

   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at=20
        http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt=20
=20
=20
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   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at=20
        http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html=20

   This Internet-Draft will expire on September 6, 2006.=20

Copyright Notice=20

   Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2006).  All Rights Reserved.=20

Abstract =20

This document describes a deployment model for pre-congestion=20
notification (PCN) operating in a large DiffServ-based region of the=20
Internet. PCN-based admission control protects the quality of service=20
of existing flows in normal circumstances, whilst if necessary (eg=20
after a large failure) pre-emption of some flows preserves the quality=20
of service of the remaining flows. Each link has a configured-
admission-rate and a configured-pre-emption-rate, and a router marks=20
packets that exceed these rates. Hence routers give an early warning of=20
their own potential congestion, before packets need to be dropped.=20
Gateways around the edges of the PCN-region convert measurements of=20
packet rates and their markings into decisions about whether to admit=20
new flows, and (if necessary) into the rate of excess traffic that=20
should be pre-empted. Per-flow admission states are kept at the=20
gateways only, while the PCN markers that are required for all routers=20
operate on the aggregate traffic - hence there is no scalability impact=20
on interior routers. =20

Authors' Note (TO BE DELETED BY THE RFC EDITOR UPON PUBLICATION)=20

   This document is posted as an Internet-Draft with the intention of=20
   eventually becoming an INFORMATIONAL RFC.=20

=20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20



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Table of Contents=20

   =20
   1. Introduction................................................5=20
      1.1. Summary................................................5=20
      1.2. Key benefits...........................................8=20
      1.3. Terminology............................................9=20
      1.4. Existing terminology...................................11=20
      1.5. Standardisation requirements...........................11=20
      1.6. Structure of rest of the document......................12=20
   2. Key aspects of the deployment model.........................13=20
      2.1. Key goals.............................................13=20
      2.2. Key assumptions........................................14=20
   3. Deployment model...........................................17=20
      3.1. Admission control......................................17=20
         3.1.1. Pre-Congestion Notification for Admission Marking..17=20
         3.1.2. Measurements to support admission control..........17=20
         3.1.3. How edge-to-edge admission control supports end-to-end=20
         QoS signalling..........................................18=20
         3.1.4. Use case.........................................18=20
      3.2. Flow pre-emption.......................................20=20
         3.2.1. Alerting an ingress gateway that flow pre-emption may be=20
         needed..................................................20=20
         3.2.2. Determining the right amount of CL traffic to drop.23=20
         3.2.3. Use case for flow pre-emption.....................24=20
      3.3. Both admission control and pre-emption.................25=20
   4. Summary of Functionality....................................27=20
      4.1. Ingress gateways.......................................27=20
      4.2. Interior routers.......................................28=20
      4.3. Egress gateways........................................28=20
      4.4. Failures..............................................29=20
   5. Limitations and some potential solutions....................31=20
      5.1. ECMP..................................................31=20
      5.2. Beat down effect.......................................33=20
      5.3. Bi-directional sessions................................35=20
      5.4. Global fairness........................................37=20
      5.5. Flash crowds..........................................39=20
      5.6. Pre-empting too fast...................................41=20
      5.7. Other potential extensions.............................42=20
         5.7.1. Tunnelling........................................42=20
         5.7.2. Multi-domain and multi-operator usage.............43=20
         5.7.3. Preferential dropping of pre-emption marked packets44=20
         5.7.4. Adaptive bandwidth for the Controlled Load service.44=20
         5.7.5. Controlled Load service with end-to-end Pre-Congestion=20
         Notification............................................45=20
         5.7.6. MPLS-TE..........................................45=20
   6. Relationship to other QoS mechanisms........................46=20
=20
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      6.1. IntServ Controlled Load................................46=20
      6.2. Integrated services operation over DiffServ............46=20
      6.3. Differentiated Services................................46=20
      6.4. ECN...................................................47=20
      6.5. RTECN.................................................47=20
      6.6. RMD...................................................48=20
      6.7. RSVP Aggregation over MPLS-TE..........................48=20
      6.8. Other Network Admission Control Approaches.............48=20
   7. Security Considerations.....................................49=20
   8. Acknowledgements...........................................49=20
   9. Comments solicited.........................................50=20
   10. Changes from earlier versions of the draft.................50=20
   11. Appendices................................................52=20
      11.1. Appendix A: Explicit Congestion Notification..........52=20
      11.2. Appendix B: What is distributed measurement-based admission=20
      control?...................................................53=20
      11.3. Appendix C: Calculating the Exponentially weighted moving=20
      average (EWMA).............................................54=20
   12. References................................................56=20
   Authors' Addresses............................................61=20
   Intellectual Property Statement................................63=20
   Disclaimer of Validity........................................63=20
   Copyright Statement...........................................63=20
   =20






















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1. Introduction=20

1.1. Summary =20

   This document describes a deployment model to achieve an end-to-end=20
   Controlled Load service by using (within a large region of the=20
   Internet) DiffServ and edge-to-edge distributed measurement-based=20
   admission control and flow pre-emption. Controlled load service is a=20
   quality of service (QoS) closely approximating the QoS that the same=20
   flow would receive from a lightly loaded network element [RFC2211].=20
   Controlled Load (CL) is useful for inelastic flows such as those for=20
   real-time media.=20

   In line with the "IntServ over DiffServ" framework defined in=20
   [RFC2998], the CL service is supported end-to-end and RSVP signalling=20
   [RFC2205] is used end-to-end, over an edge-to-edge DiffServ region.=20
   We call the DiffServ region the "CL-region".=20

 ___    ___    _______________________________________    ____    ___=20
|   |  |   |  |Ingress         Interior         Egress|  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |gateway         routers         gateway|  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |-------+  +-------+  +-------+  +------|  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  | PCN-  |  | PCN-  |  | PCN-  |  |      |  |    |  |   |=20
|   |..|   |..|marking|..|marking|..|marking|..| Meter|..|    |..|   |=20
|   |  |   |  |-------+  +-------+  +-------+  +------|  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |  \                                 /  |  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |   \                               /   |  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |    \  Congestion-Level-Estimate  /    |  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |     \  (for admission control)  /     |  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |      --<-----<----<----<-----<--      |  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |      Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate       |  |    |  |   |=20
|   |  |   |  |        (for flow pre-emption)         |  |    |  |   |=20
|___|  |___|  |_______________________________________|  |____|  |___|=20
=20
Sx     Access               CL-region                   Access    Rx=20
End    Network                                          Network   End=20
Host                                                              Host=20
                <------ edge-to-edge signalling ----->=20
              (for admission control & flow pre-emption)=20
=20
<-------------------end-to-end QoS signalling protocol--------------->=20
=20
Figure 1: Overall QoS architecture (NB terminology explained later)=20
=20
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   =20

   Figure 1 shows an example of an overall QoS architecture, where the=20
   two access networks are connected by a CL-region. Another possibility=20
   is that there are several CL-regions between the access networks -=20
   each would operate the Pre-Congestion Notification mechanisms=20
   separately. The document assumes RSVP as the end-to-end QoS=20
   signalling protocol. However, the RSVP signalling may itself be=20
   originated or terminated by proxies still closer to the edge of the=20
   network, such as home hubs or the like, triggered in turn by=20
   application layer signalling. [RFC2998] and our approach are compared=20
   further in Section 6.2.=20

   Flows must enter and leave the CL-region through its ingress and=20
   egress gateways, and they need traffic descriptors that are policed=20
   by the ingress gateway (NB the policing function is out of this=20
   document's scope). The overall CL-traffic between two border routers=20
   is called a "CL-region-aggregate".=20

   The document introduces a mechanism for flow admission control:=20
   should a new flow be admitted into a specific CL-region-aggregate?=20
   Admission control protects the QoS of existing CL-flows in normal=20
   circumstances. In abnormal circumstances, for instance a disaster=20
   affecting multiple interior routers, then the QoS on existing CL=20
   microflows may degrade even if care was exercised when admitting=20
   those microflows before those circumstances. Therefore we also=20
   propose a mechanism for flow pre-emption: how much traffic, in a=20
   specific CL-region-aggregate, should be pre-empted in order to=20
   preserve the QoS of the remaining CL-flows? Flow pre-emption also=20
   restores QoS to lower priority traffic. =20

   As a fundamental building block to enable these two mechanisms, each=20
   link of the CL-region is associated with a configured-admission-rate=20
   and configured-pre-emption-rate; the former is usually significantly=20
   larger than the latter. If traffic in a specific DiffServ class ("CL-
   traffic") on the link exceeds these rates then packets are marked=20
   with "Admission Marking" or "Pre-emption Marking". The algorithms=20
   that determine the number of packets marked are outlined in Section 3=20
   and detailed in [PCN]. PCN marking (Pre-Congestion Notification)=20
   builds on the concepts of RFC 3168, "The addition of Explicit=20
   Congestion Notification to IP" (which is briefly summarised in=20
   Appendix A).=20





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              =20
   =20
              Traffic rate on link ^=20
                                   |       =20
                                   |   Drop packets=20
                   link bandwidth -|--------------------------- =20
                                   |       =20
                                   |  Pre-emption Mark packets=20
      configured-pre-emption-rate -|---------------------------=20
                                   |       =20
                                   |   Admission Mark packets=20
        configured-admission-rate -|---------------------------=20
                                   |=20
                                   |   No marking of packets=20
                                   |=20
                                   +---------------------------=20
   =20
                       Figure 2: Packet Marking by Routers=20
   =20

   Gateways of the CL-region make measurements of packet rates and their=20
   PCN markings and convert them into decisions about whether to admit=20
   new flows, and (if necessary) into the rate of excess traffic that=20
   should be pre-empted. These mechanisms are detailed in Section 3 and=20
   briefly outlined in the next few paragraphs. =20

   The admission control mechanism for a new flow entering the network=20
   at ingress gateway G0 and leaving it at egress gateway G1 relies on=20
   feedback from the egress gateway G1 about the existing CL-region-
   aggregate between G0 and G1. This feedback is generated as follows.=20
   All routers meter the rate of the CL-traffic on their outgoing links=20
   and mark the packets with the Admission Mark if the configured-
   admission-rate is exceeded. Egress gateway G1 measures the Admission=20
   Marks for each of its CL-region-aggregates separately. If the=20
   fraction of traffic on a CL-region-aggregate that is Admission Marked=20
   exceeds some threshold, no further flows should be admitted into this=20
   CL-region-aggregate. Because sources vary their data rates (amongst=20
   other reasons) the rate of the CL-traffic on a link may fluctuate=20
   above and below the configured-admission-rate. Hence to get more=20
   stable information, the egress gateway measures the fraction as a=20
   moving average, called the Congestion-Level-Estimate. This is=20
   signalled from the egress G1 to the ingress G0, to enable the ingress=20
   to block new flows. =20

   Admission control seems most useful for DiffServ's Controlled load=20
   service. In order to support CL traffic we would expect PCN to=20
   supplement the existing scheduling behaviour Expedited Forwarding=20
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   (EF). Since PCN gives an "early warning" of potential congestion=20
   (hence "pre-congestion notification"), admission control can kick in=20
   before there is any significant build up of packets in routers -=20
   which is exactly the performance required for CL. However, PCN is not=20
   only intended to supplement EF. PCN is specified (in [PCN]) as a=20
   building block which can supplement the scheduling behaviour of other=20
   PHBs.=20

   The function to pre-empt flows (or allow the potential to pre-empt=20
   them) relies on feedback from the egress gateway about the CL-region-
   aggregates. This feedback is generated as follows. All routers meter=20
   the rate of the CL-traffic on their outgoing links, and if the rate=20
   is in excess of the configured-pre-emption-rate then packets=20
   amounting to the excess rate are Pre-emption Marked. If the egress=20
   gateway G1 sees a Pre-emption Marked packet then it measures, for=20
   this CL-region-aggregate, the rate of all received packets that=20
   aren't Pre-emption Marked. This is the rate of CL-traffic that the=20
   network can actually support from G0 to G1, and we thus call it the=20
   Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate. The ingress gateway G0 compares the=20
   Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate with the rate that it is sending towards=20
   G1, and hence determines the required traffic rate reduction. The=20
   document assumes flow pre-emption as the way of reacting to this=20
   information, ie stopping sufficient flows to reduce the rate to the=20
   Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate. However, this isn't mandated, for=20
   instance policy or regulation may prevent pre-emption of some flows -=20
   such considerations are out of scope of this document.=20

1.2. Key benefits=20

   We believe that the mechanisms described in this document are simple,=20
   scalable, and robust because:=20

   o Per flow state is only required at the ingress gateways to prevent=20
      non-admitted CL traffic from entering the PCN-region. Other=20
      network entities are not aware of individual flows.=20

   o For each of its links a router has Admission Marking and Pre-
      emption Marking behaviours. These markers operate on the overall=20
      CL traffic of the respective link. Therefore, there are no=20
      scalability concerns.=20

   o The information of these measurements is implicitly signalled to=20
      the egress gateways by the marks in the packet headers. No=20
      protocol actions (explicit messages) are required.=20



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   o The egress gateways make separate measurements for each ingress=20
      gateway of packets. Each meter operates on the overall CL traffic=20
      of a particular CL-region-aggregate. Therefore, there are no=20
      scalability concerns as long as the number of ingress gateways is=20
      not overwhelmingly large.=20

   o Feedback signalling is required between all pairs of ingress and=20
      egress gateways and the signalled information is on the basis of=20
      the corresponding CL-region-aggregate, i.e. it is also unaware of=20
      individual flows.=20

   o The configured-admission-rates can be chosen small enough that=20
      admitted traffic can still be carried after a rerouting in most=20
      failure cases. This is an important feature as QoS violations in=20
      core networks due to link failures are more likely than QoS=20
      violations due to increased traffic volume.=20

   o The admitted load is controlled dynamically. Therefore it adapts=20
      as the traffic matrix changes, and also if the network topology=20
      changes (eg after a link failure). Hence an operator can be less=20
      conservative when deploying network capacity, and less accurate in=20
      their prediction of the traffic matrix. Also, controlling the load=20
      using statically provisioned capacity per ingress (regardless of=20
      the egress of a flow), as is typical in the DiffServ architecture=20
      [RFC2475], can lead to focussed overload: many flows happen to=20
      focus on a particular link and then all flows through the=20
      congested link fail catastrophically (Section 6.2).=20

   o The pre-emption function complements admission control. It allows=20
      the network to recover from sudden unexpected surges of CL-traffic=20
      on some links, thus restoring QoS to the remaining flows. Such=20
      scenarios are very unlikely but not impossible. They can be caused=20
      by large network failures that redirect lots of admitted CL-
      traffic to other links, or by malfunction of the measurement-based=20
      admission control in the presence of admitted flows that send for=20
      a while with an atypically low rate and increase their rates in a=20
      correlated way.=20

   =20

   =20

1.3. Terminology=20

   EDITOR'S NOTE: Terminology in this document is (hopefully) consistent=20
   with that in [PCN]. However, it may not be consistent with the=20

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   terminology in other PCN-related documents. The PCN Working Group (if=20
   formed) will need to agree a single set of terminology. =20

   This terminology is copied from the pre-congestion notification=20
   marking draft [PCN]:=20

   o Pre-Congestion Notification (PCN): two new algorithms that=20
      determine when a PCN-enabled router Admission Marks and Pre-
      emption Marks a packet, depending on the traffic level. =20

   o Admission Marking condition: the traffic level is such that the=20
      router Admission Marks packets. The router provides an "early=20
      warning" that the load is nearing the engineered admission control=20
      capacity, before there is any significant build-up of CL packets=20
      in the queue.=20

   o Pre-emption Marking condition: the traffic level is such that the=20
      router Pre-emption Marks packets. The router warns explicitly that=20
      pre-emption may be needed.=20

   o Configured-admission-rate: the reference rate used by the=20
      admission marking algorithm in a PCN-enabled router.  =20

   o Configured-pre-emption-rate - the reference rate used by the pre-
      emption marking algorithm in a PCN-enabled router.=20

   =20

   The following terms are defined here:=20

   o Ingress gateway: router at an ingress to the CL-region. A CL-
      region may have several ingress gateways. =20

   o Egress gateway: router at an egress from the CL-region. A CL-
      region may have several egress gateways.=20

   o Interior router: a router which is part of the CL-region, but=20
      isn't an ingress or egress gateway.=20

   o CL-region: A region of the Internet in which all traffic=20
      enters/leaves through an ingress/egress gateway and all routers=20
      run Pre-Congestion Notification marking. A CL-region is a DiffServ=20
      region (a DiffServ region is either a single DiffServ domain or=20
      set of contiguous DiffServ domains), but note that the CL-region=20
      does not use the traffic conditioning agreements (TCAs) of the=20
      (informational) DiffServ architecture.=20

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   o CL-region-aggregate: all the microflows between a specific pair of=20
      ingress and egress gateways. Note there is no field in the flow=20
      packet headers that uniquely identifies the aggregate.=20

   o Congestion-Level-Estimate: the number of bits in CL packets that=20
      are admission marked (or pre-emption marked), divided by the=20
      number of bits in all CL packets. It is calculated as an=20
      exponentially weighted moving average. It is calculated by an=20
      egress gateway for the CL packets from a particular ingress=20
      gateway, i.e. there is a Congestion-Level-Estimate for each CL-
      region-aggregate. =20

   o Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate: the rate of traffic that the network=20
      can actually support for a specific CL-region-aggregate. So it is=20
      measured by an egress gateway for the CL packets from a particular=20
      ingress gateway.=20

   o Ingress-Aggregate-Rate: the rate of traffic that is being sent on=20
      a specific CL-region-aggregate. So it is measured by an ingress=20
      gateway for the CL packets sent towards a particular egress=20
      gateway.=20

=20
=20
1.4. Existing terminology=20

   This is a placeholder for useful terminology that is defined=20
   elsewhere.=20

1.5. Standardisation requirements=20

   The framework described in this document has two new standardisation=20
   requirements: =20

   o new Pre-Congestion Notification for Admission Marking and Pre-
      emption Marking are required, as detailed in [PCN]. =20

   o the end-to-end signalling protocol needs to be modified to carry=20
      the Congestion-Level-Estimate report (for admission control) and=20
      the Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate (for flow pre-emption). With our=20
      assumption of RSVP (Section 2.2) as the end-to-end signalling=20
      protocol, it means that extensions to RSVP are required, as=20
      detailed in [RSVP-PCN], for example to carry the Congestion-Level-
      Estimate and Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate information from egress=20
      gateway to ingress gateway.=20

=20
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   o We are discussing what to standardise about the gateway's=20
      behaviour.=20

   Other than these things, the arrangement uses existing IETF protocols=20
   throughout, although not in their usual architecture.=20

1.6. Structure of rest of the document=20

   Section 2 describes some key aspects of the deployment model: our=20
   goals and assumptions. Section 3 describes the deployment model,=20
   whilst Section 4 summarises the required changes to the various=20
   routers in the CL-region. Section 5 outlines some limitations of PCN=20
   that we've identified in this deployment model; it also discusses=20
   some potential solutions, and other possible extensions. Section 6=20
   provides some comparison with existing QoS mechanisms. =20

   =20





























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2. Key aspects of the deployment model=20

   EDITOR'S NOTE: The material in Section 2 will eventually disappear,=20
   as it will be covered by the problem statement of the PCN Working=20
   Group (if formed).=20

   In this section we discuss the key aspects of the deployment model:=20

   o At a high level, our key goals, i.e. the functionality that we=20
      want to achieve=20

   o The assumptions that we're prepared to make =20

2.1. Key goals=20

   The deployment model achieves an end-to-end controlled load (CL)=20
   service where a segment of the end-to-end path is an edge-to-edge=20
   Pre-Congestion Notification region. CL is a quality of service (QoS)=20
   closely approximating the QoS that the same flow would receive from a=20
   lightly loaded network element [RFC2211]. It is useful for inelastic=20
   flows such as those for real-time media. =20

   o The CL service should be achieved despite varying load levels of=20
      other sorts of traffic, which may or may not be rate adaptive=20
      (i.e. responsive to packet drops or ECN marks).=20

   o The CL service should be supported for a variety of possible CL=20
      sources: Constant Bit Rate (CBR), Variable Bit Rate (VBR) and=20
      voice with silence suppression. VBR is the most challenging to=20
      support.=20

   o After a localised failure in the interior of the CL-region causing=20
      heavy congestion, the CL service should recover gracefully by pre-
      empting (dropping) some of the admitted CL microflows, whilst=20
      preserving as many of them as possible with their full CL QoS. =20











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   o It needs to be possible to complete flow pre-emption within 1-2=20
      seconds. Operators will have varying requirements but, at least=20
      for voice, it has been estimated that after a few seconds then=20
      many affected users will start to hang up, making the flow pre-
      emption mechanism redundant and possibly even counter-productive.=20
      Until flow pre-emption kicks in, other applications using CL (e.g.=20
      video) and lower priority traffic (e.g. Assured Forwarding (AF))=20
      could be receiving reduced service. Therefore an even faster flow=20
      pre-emption mechanism would be desirable (even if, in practice,=20
      operators have to add a deliberate pause to ride out a transient=20
      while the natural rate of call tear down or lower layer protection=20
      mechanisms kick in).=20

   o The CL service should support emergency services ([EMERG-RQTS],=20
      [EMERG-TEL]) as well as the Assured Service which is the IP=20
      implementation of the existing ITU-T/NATO/DoD telephone system=20
      architecture known as Multi-Level Pre-emption and Precedence=20
      [ITU.MLPP.1990] [ANSI.MLPP.Spec][ANSI.MLPP.Supplement], or MLPP.=20
      In particular, this involves admitting new flows that are part of=20
      high priority sessions even when admission control would reject=20
      new routine flows. Similarly, when having to choose which flows to=20
      pre-empt, this involves taking into account the priorities and=20
      properties of the sessions that flows are part of.=20

   =20
2.2. Key assumptions=20

   The framework does not try to deliver the above functionality in all=20
   scenarios. We make the following assumptions about the type of=20
   scenario to be solved. =20

   o Edge-to-edge: all the routers in the CL-region are upgraded with=20
      Pre-Congestion Notification, and all the ingress and egress=20
      gateways are upgraded to perform the measurement-based admission=20
      control and flow pre-emption. Note that although the upgrades=20
      required are edge-to-edge, the CL service is provided end-to-end.=20

   o Additional load: we assume that any additional load offered within=20
      the reaction time of the admission control mechanism doesn't move=20
      the CL-region directly from no congestion to overload. So it=20
      assumes there will always be an intermediate stage where some CL=20
      packets are Admission Marked, but they are still delivered without=20
      significant QoS degradation. We believe this is valid for core and=20
      backbone networks with typical call arrival patterns (given the=20
      reaction time is little more than one round trip time across the=20
      CL-region), but is unlikely to be valid in access networks where=20
      the granularity of an individual call becomes significant.=20
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   o Aggregation: we assume that in normal operations, there are many=20
      CL microflows within the CL-region, typically at least hundreds=20
      between any pair of ingress and egress gateways. The implication=20
      is that the solution is targeted at core and backbone networks and=20
      possibly parts of large access networks. =20

   o Trust: we assume that there is trust between all the routers in=20
      the CL-region. For example, this trust model is satisfied if one=20
      operator runs the whole of the CL-region. But we make no such=20
      assumptions about the end hosts, i.e. depending on the scenario=20
      they may be trusted or untrusted by the CL-region. =20

   o Signalling: we assume that the end-to-end signalling protocol is=20
      RSVP. Section 3 describes how the CL-region fits into such an end-
      to-end QoS scenario, whilst [RSVP-PCN] describes the extensions to=20
      RSVP that are required. =20

   o Separation: we assume that all routers within the CL-region are=20
      upgraded with the CL mechanism, so the requirements of [Floyd] are=20
      met because the CL-region is an enclosed environment. Also, an=20
      operator separates CL-traffic in the CL-region from outside=20
      traffic by administrative configuration of the ring of gateways=20
      around the region. Within the CL-region we assume that the CL-
      traffic is separated from non-CL traffic. =20

   o Routing: we assume that all packets between a pair of ingress and=20
      egress gateways follow the same path, or that they follow=20
      different paths but that the load balancing scheme is tuned in the=20
      CL-region to distribute load such that the different paths always=20
      receive comparable relative load. This ensures that the=20
      Congestion-Level-Estimate used in the admission control procedure=20
      (and which is computed taking into account packets travelling on=20
      all the paths) approximately reflects the status of the actual=20
      path that will be followed by the new microflow's packets.  =20

   =20

   We are investigating ways of loosening the restrictions set by some=20
   of these assumptions, for instance:=20

   o Trust: to allow the CL-region to span multiple, non-trusting=20
      operators, using the technique of [Re-PCN] as mentioned in Section=20
      5.7.2.=20




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   o Signalling: we believe that the solution could operate with=20
      another signalling protocol, such as the one produced by the NSIS=20
      working group. It could also work with application level=20
      signalling as suggested in [RT-ECN].=20

   o Additional load: we believe that the assumption is valid for core=20
      and backbone networks, with an appropriate margin between the=20
      configured-admission-rate and the capacity for CL traffic.=20
      However, in principle a burst of admission requests can occur in a=20
      short time. We expect this to be a rare event under normal=20
      conditions, but it could happen e.g. due to a 'flash crowd'. If it=20
      does, then more flows may be admitted than should be, triggering=20
      the pre-emption mechanism. There are various ways an operator=20
      might try to alleviate this issue, which are discussed in the=20
      'Flash crowds' section 5.5 later. =20

   o Separation: the assumption that CL traffic is separated from non-
      CL traffic implies that the CL traffic has its own PHB, not shared=20
      with other traffic. We are looking at whether it could share=20
      Expedited Forwarding's PHB, but supplemented with Pre-Congestion=20
      Notification. If this is possible, other PHBs (like Assured=20
      Forwarding) could be supplemented with the same new behaviours.=20
      This is similar to how RFC3168 ECN was defined to supplement any=20
      PHB.=20

   o Routing: we are looking in greater detail at the solution in the=20
      presence of Equal Cost Multi-Path routing and at suitable=20
      enhancements. See also the 'ECMP' section 5.1 later. =20

   =20
















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3. Deployment model=20

3.1. Admission control =20

   In this section we describe the admission control mechanism. We=20
   discuss the three pieces of the solution and then give an example of=20
   how they fit together in a use case:=20

   o the new Pre-Congestion Notification for Admission Marking used by=20
      all routers in the CL-region=20

   o how the measurements made support our admission control mechanism =20

   o how the edge to edge mechanism fits into the end to end RSVP=20
      signalling=20

   =20

3.1.1. Pre-Congestion Notification for Admission Marking=20

   This is discussed in [PCN]. Here we only give a brief outline. =20

   To support our admission control mechanism, each router in the CL-
   region runs an algorithm to determine whether to Admission Mark the=20
   packet. The algorithm measures the aggregate CL traffic on the link=20
   and ensures that packets are admission marked before the actual queue=20
   builds up, but when it is in danger of doing so soon; the probability=20
   of admission marking increases with the danger. The algorithm's main=20
   parameter is the configured-admission-rate, which is set lower than=20
   the link speed, perhaps considerably so. Admission marked packets=20
   indicate that the CL traffic rate is reaching the configured-
   admission-rate and so act as an "early warning" that the engineered=20
   capacity is nearly reached. Therefore they indicate that requests to=20
   admit prospective new CL flows may need to be refused.=20

   =20

3.1.2. Measurements to support admission control=20

   To support our admission control mechanism the egress measures the=20
   Congestion-Level-Estimate for traffic from each remote ingress=20
   gateway, i.e. per CL-region-aggregate. The Congestion-Level-Estimate=20
   is the number of bits in CL packets that are admission marked or pre-
   emption marked, divided by the number of bits in all CL packets. It=20
   is calculated as an exponentially weighted moving average. It is=20
   calculated by an egress gateway separately for the CL packets from=20
   each particular ingress gateway. =20
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   Why are pre-emption marked packets included in the Congestion-Level-
   Estimate? Pre-emption marking over-writes admission marking, i.e. a=20
   packet cannot be both admission and pre-emption marked. So if pre-
   emption marked packets weren't counted we would have the anomaly that=20
   as the traffic rate grew above the configured-pre-emption-rate, the=20
   Congestion-Level-Estimate would fall. If a particular encoding scheme=20
   is chosen where a packet can be both admission and pre-emption marked=20
   (such as Alternative 4 in Appendix C of [PCN]), then this is not=20
   necessary.=20

   This Congestion-Level-Estimate provides an estimate of how near the=20
   links on the path inside the CL-region are getting to the configured-
   admission-rate. Note that the metering is done separately per ingress=20
   gateway, because there may be sufficient capacity on all the routers=20
   on the path between one ingress gateway and a particular egress, but=20
   not from a second ingress to that same egress gateway.=20

3.1.3. How edge-to-edge admission control supports end-to-end QoS=20
   signalling=20

   Consider a scenario that consists of two end hosts, each connected to=20
   their own access networks, which are linked by the CL-region. A=20
   source tries to set up a new CL microflow by sending an RSVP PATH=20
   message, and the receiving end host replies with an RSVP RESV=20
   message. Outside the CL-region some other method, for instance=20
   IntServ, is used to provide QoS. From the perspective of RSVP the CL-
   region is a single hop, so the RSVP PATH and RESV messages are=20
   processed by the ingress and egress gateways but are carried=20
   transparently across all the interior routers; hence, the ingress and=20
   egress gateways hold per microflow state, whilst no per microflow=20
   state is kept by the interior routers. So far this is as in IntServ=20
   over DiffServ [RFC2998]. However, in order to support our admission=20
   control mechanism, the egress gateway adds to the RESV message an=20
   opaque object which states the current Congestion-Level-Estimate for=20
   the relevant CL-region-aggregate. Details of the corresponding RSVP=20
   extensions are described in [RSVP-PCN].=20

3.1.4. Use case=20

   To see how the three pieces of the solution fit together, we imagine=20
   a scenario where some microflows are already in place between a given=20
   pair of ingress and egress gateways, but the traffic load is such=20
   that no packets from these flows are admission marked as they travel=20
   across the CL-region. A source wanting to start a new CL microflow=20
   sends an RSVP PATH message. The egress gateway adds an object to the=20
   RESV message with the Congestion-Level-Estimate, which is zero. The=20
   ingress gateway sees this and consequently admits the new flow. It=20
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   then forwards the RSVP RESV message upstream towards the source end=20
   host. Hence, assuming there's sufficient capacity in the access=20
   networks, the new microflow is admitted end-to-end. =20

   The source now sends CL packets, which arrive at the ingress gateway.=20
   The ingress uses a five-tuple filter to identify that the packets are=20
   part of a previously admitted CL microflow, and it also polices the=20
   microflow to ensure it remains within its traffic profile. (The=20
   ingress has learnt the required information from the RSVP messages.)=20
   When forwarding a packet belonging to an admitted microflow, the=20
   ingress sets the packet's DSCP and ECN fields to the appropriate=20
   values configured for the CL region. The CL packet now travels across=20
   the CL-region, getting admission marked if necessary. =20

   Next, we imagine the same scenario but at a later time when load is=20
   higher at one (or more) of the interior routers, which start to=20
   Admission Mark CL packets, because their load on the outgoing link is=20
   nearing the configured-admission-rate. The next time a source tries=20
   to set up a CL microflow, the ingress gateway learns (from the=20
   egress) the relevant Congestion-Level-Estimate. If it is greater than=20
   some CLE-threshold value then the ingress refuses the request,=20
   otherwise it is accepted. The ingress gateway could also take into=20
   account attributes of the RSVP reservation (such as for example the=20
   RSVP pre-emption priority of [RSVP-PREEMPTION] or the RSVP admission=20
   priority of [RSVP-EMERGENCY]) as well as information provided by a=20
   policy decision point in order to make a more sophisticated admission=20
   decision. This way, flow admission can help emergency/military calls=20
   by taking into account the corresponding priorities (as conveyed in=20
   RSVP policy elements) when deciding to admit or reject a new=20
   reservation. Use of RSVP for the support of emergency/military=20
   applications is discussed in further detail in [RFC4542] and [RSVP-
   EMERGENCY].=20

   It is also possible for an egress gateway to get a RSVP RESV message=20
   and not know what the Congestion-Level-Estimate is. For example, if=20
   there are no CL microflows at present between the relevant ingress=20
   and egress gateways. In this case the egress requests the ingress to=20
   send probe packets, from which it can initialise its meter. RSVP=20
   Extensions for such a request to send probe data can be found in=20
   [RSVP-PCN].=20

   =20

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3.2. Flow pre-emption=20

   In this section we describe the flow pre-emption mechanism. We=20
   discuss the two parts of the solution and then give an example of how=20
   they fit together in a use case:=20

   o How an ingress gateway is triggered to test whether flow pre-
      emption may be needed=20

   o How an ingress gateway determines the right amount of CL traffic=20
      to drop=20

   The mechanism is defined in [PCN] and [RSVP-PCN].=20

   Two subsequent steps could be:=20

   o Choose which flows to shed, influenced by their priority and other=20
      policy information=20

   o Tear down the reservations for the chosen flows=20

   We provide some hints about these latter two steps in Section 3.2.3,=20
   but don't try to provide full guidance as it greatly depends on the=20
   particular detailed operational situation.=20

   An essential QoS issue in core and backbone networks is being able to=20
   cope with failures of routers and links. The consequent re-routing=20
   can cause severe congestion on some links and hence degrade the QoS=20
   experienced by on-going microflows and other, lower priority traffic.=20
   Even when the network is engineered to sustain a single link failure,=20
   multiple link failures (e.g. due to a fibre cut, router failure or a=20
   natural disaster) can cause violation of capacity constraints and=20
   resulting QoS failures. Our solution uses rate-based flow pre-
   emption, so that sufficient of the previously admitted CL microflows=20
   are dropped to ensure that the remaining ones again receive QoS=20
   commensurate with the CL service and at least some QoS is quickly=20
   restored to other traffic classes. =20

3.2.1. Alerting an ingress gateway that flow pre-emption may be needed=20

   Alerting an ingress gateway that flow pre-emption may be needed is a=20
   two stage process: a router in the CL-region alerts an egress gateway=20
   that flow pre-emption may be needed; in turn the egress gateway=20
   alerts the relevant ingress gateway. Every router in the CL-region=20
   has the ability to alert egress gateways, which may be done either=20
   explicitly or implicitly: =20

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   o Explicit - the router per-hop behaviour is supplemented with a new=20
      Pre-emption Marking behaviour, which is outlined below. Reception=20
      of such a packet by the egress gateway alerts it that pre-emption=20
      may be needed.=20

   o Implicit - the router behaviour is unchanged from the Admission=20
      Marking behaviour described earlier. The egress gateway treats a=20
      Congestion-Level-Estimate of (almost) 100% as an implicit alert=20
      that pre-emption may be required. ('Almost' because the=20
      Congestion-Level-Estimate is a moving average, so can never reach=20
      exactly 100%.)=20

   To support explicit pre-emption alerting, each router in the CL-
   region runs an algorithm to determine whether to Pre-emption Mark the=20
   packet. The algorithm measures the aggregate CL traffic and ensures=20
   that packets are pre-emption marked before the actual queue builds=20
   up. The algorithm's main parameter is the configured-pre-emption-
   rate, which is set lower than the link speed (but higher than the=20
   configured-admission-rate). Thus pre-emption marked packets indicate=20
   that the CL traffic rate is reaching the configured-pre-emption-rate=20
   and so act as an "early warning" that the engineered capacity is=20
   nearly reached. Therefore they indicate that it may be advisable to=20
   pre-empt some of the existing CL flows in order to preserve the QoS=20
   of the others.=20

   Note that the pre-emption marking algorithm doesn't measure the=20
   packets that are already Pre-emption Marked. This ensures that in a=20
   scenario with several links that are above their configured-pre-
   emption-rate, then at the egress gateway the rate of packets=20
   excluding Pre-emption Marked ones truly does represent the=20
   Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate(see below for explanation).=20

   Note that the explicit mechanism only makes sense if all the routers=20
   in the CL-region have the functionality so that the egress gateways=20
   can rely on the explicit mechanism. Otherwise there is the danger=20
   that the traffic happens to focus on a router without it, and egress=20
   gateways then have also to watch for implicit pre-emption alerts.=20

   When one or more packets in a CL-region-aggregate alert the egress=20
   gateway of the need for flow pre-emption, whether explicitly or=20
   implicitly, the egress puts that CL-region-aggregate into the Pre-
   emption Alert state. For each CL-region-aggregate in alert state it=20
   measures the rate of traffic at the egress gateway (i.e. the traffic=20
   rate of the appropriate CL-region-aggregate) and reports this to the=20
   relevant ingress gateway. The steps are:=20


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   o Determine the relevant ingress gateway - for the explicit case the=20
      egress gateway examines the pre-emption marked packet and uses the=20
      state installed at the time of admission to determine which=20
      ingress gateway the packet came from. For the implicit case the=20
      egress gateway has already determined this information, because=20
      the Congestion-Level-Estimate is calculated per ingress gateway.=20

   o Measure the traffic rate of CL packets - as soon as the egress=20
      gateway is alerted (whether explicitly or implicitly) it measures=20
      the rate of CL traffic from this ingress gateway (i.e. for this=20
      CL-region-aggregate). Note that pre-emption marked packets are=20
      excluded from that measurement. It should make its measurement=20
      quickly and accurately, but exactly how is up to the=20
      implementation. =20

   o Alert the ingress gateway - the egress gateway then immediately=20
      alerts the relevant ingress gateway about the fact that flow pre-
      emption may be required. This Alert message also includes the=20
      measured Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate, i.e. the rate of CL-traffic=20
      received from this ingress gateway. The Alert message is sent=20
      using reliable delivery. Procedures for the support of such an=20
      Alert using RSVP are defined in [RSVP-PCN].=20

             --------------       _       _          -----------------   =
 =20
CL packet   |Update        |     / Is it a \   Y    | Measure CL rate |=20
arrives --->|Congestion-   |--->/pre-emption\-----> | from ingress and|=20
            |Level-Estimate|    \  marked   /       | alert ingress   |=20
             --------------      \ packet? /         -----------------=20
                                  \_     _/=20
                                   =20
Figure 2: Egress gateway action for explicit Pre-emption Alert =20
                                   _     _         =20
             --------------       /       \          -----------------   =
 =20
CL packet   |Update        |     /  Is     \   Y    | Measure CL rate |=20
arrives --->|Congestion-   |--->/  C.L.E.   \-----> | from ingress and|=20
            |Level-Estimate|    \ (nearly)  /       | alert ingress   |=20
             --------------      \ 100%?   /         -----------------=20
                                  \_     _/                             =20
=20
Figure 3: Egress gateway action for implicit Pre-emption Alert =20
=20
=20


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3.2.2. Determining the right amount of CL traffic to drop=20

   The method relies on the insight that the amount of CL traffic that=20
   can be supported between a particular pair of ingress and egress=20
   gateways, is the amount of CL traffic that is actually getting across=20
   the CL-region to the egress gateway without being Pre-emption Marked.=20
   Hence we term it the Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate.=20

   So when the ingress gateway gets the Alert message from an egress=20
   gateway, it compares:=20

   o The traffic rate that it is sending to this particular egress=20
      gateway (which we term Ingress-Aggregate-Rate)=20

   o The traffic rate that the egress gateway reports (in the Alert=20
      message) that it is receiving from this ingress gateway (which is=20
      the Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate)=20

   If the difference is significant, then the ingress gateway pre-empts=20
   some microflows. It only pre-empts if:=20

        Ingress-Aggregate-Rate > Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate + error=20

   The "error" term is partly to allow for inaccuracies in the=20
   measurements of the rates. It is also needed because the Ingress-
   Aggregate-Rate is measured at a slightly later moment than the=20
   Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate, and it is quite possible that the=20
   Ingress-Aggregate-Rate has increased in the interim due to natural=20
   variation of the bit rate of the CL sources. So the "error" term=20
   allows for some variation in the ingress rate without triggering pre-
   emption. =20

   The ingress gateway should pre-empt enough microflows to ensure that:=20

        New Ingress-Aggregate-Rate < Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate - error=20

   The "error" term here is used for similar reasons but in the other=20
   direction, to ensure slightly more load is shed than seems necessary,=20
   in case the two measurements were taken during a short-term fall in=20
   load. =20

   When the routers in the CL-region are using explicit pre-emption=20
   alerting, the ingress gateway would normally pre-empt microflows=20
   whenever it gets an alert (it always would if it were possible to set=20
   "error" equal to zero). For the implicit case however this is not so.=20
   It receives an Alert message when the Congestion-Level-Estimate=20
   reaches (almost) 100%, which is roughly when traffic exceeds the=20
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   configured-admission-rate. However, it is only when packets are=20
   indeed dropped en route that the Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate becomes=20
   less than the Ingress-Aggregate-Rate so only then will pre-emption=20
   actually occur on the ingress gateway.  =20

   Hence with the implicit scheme, pre-emption can only be triggered=20
   once the system starts dropping packets and thus the QoS of flows=20
   starts being significantly degraded. This is in contrast with the=20
   explicit scheme which allows flow pre-emption to be triggered before=20
   any packet drop, simply when the traffic reaches the configured-pre-
   emption-rate. Therefore we believe that the explicit mechanism is=20
   superior. However it does require new functionality on all the=20
   routers (although this is little more than a bulk token bucket - see=20
   [PCN] for details). =20

=20

3.2.3. Use case for flow pre-emption =20

   To see how the pieces of the solution fit together in a use case, we=20
   imagine a scenario where many microflows have already been admitted.=20
   We confine our description to the explicit pre-emption mechanism. Now=20
   an interior router in the CL-region fails. The network layer routing=20
   protocol re-routes round the problem, but as a consequence traffic on=20
   other links increases. In fact let's assume the traffic on one link=20
   now exceeds its configured-pre-emption-rate and so the router pre-
   emption marks CL packets. When the egress sees the first one of the=20
   pre-emption marked packets it immediately determines which microflow=20
   this packet is part of (by using a five-tuple filter and comparing it=20
   with state installed at admission) and hence which ingress gateway=20
   the packet came from. It sets up a meter to measure the traffic rate=20
   from this ingress gateway, and as soon as possible sends a message to=20
   the ingress gateway. This message alerts the ingress gateway that=20
   pre-emption may be needed and contains the traffic rate measured by=20
   the egress gateway. Then the ingress gateway determines the traffic=20
   rate that it is sending towards this egress gateway and hence it can=20
   calculate the amount of traffic that needs to be pre-empted. =20

   The solution operates within a little over one round trip time - the=20
   time required for microflow packets that have experienced Pre-emption=20
   Marking to travel downstream through the CL-region and arrive at the=20
   egress gateway, plus some additional time for the egress gateway to=20
   measure the rate seen after it has been alerted that pre-emption may=20
   be needed, and the time for the egress gateway to report this=20
   information to the ingress gateway. =20


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   The ingress gateway could now just shed random microflows, but it is=20
   better if the least important ones are dropped. The ingress gateway=20
   could use information stored locally in each reservation's state=20
   (such as for example the RSVP pre-emption priority of [RSVP-
   PREEMPTION] or the RSVP admission priority of [RSVP-EMERGENCY]) as=20
   well as information provided by a policy decision point in order to=20
   decide which of the flows to shed (or perhaps which ones not to=20
   shed). This way, flow pre-emption can also helps emergency/military=20
   calls by taking into account the corresponding priorities (as=20
   conveyed in RSVP policy elements) when selecting calls to be pre-
   empted, which is likely to be particularly important in a disaster=20
   scenario. Use of RSVP for support of emergency/military applications=20
   is discussed in further details in [RFC4542] and [RSVP-EMERGENCY].=20

   The ingress gateway then initiates RSVP signalling to instruct the=20
   relevant destinations that their reservation has been terminated, and=20
   to tell (RSVP) nodes along the path to tear down associated RSVP=20
   state. To guard against recalcitrant sources, normal IntServ policing=20
   may be used to block any future traffic from the dropped flows from=20
   entering the CL-region. Note that - with the explicit Pre-emption=20
   Alert mechanism - since the configured-pre-emption-rate may be=20
   significantly less than the physical line capacity, flow pre-emption=20
   may be triggered before any congestion has actually occurred and=20
   before any packet is dropped.=20

   We extend the scenario further by imagining that (due to a disaster=20
   of some kind) further routers in the CL-region fail during the time=20
   taken by the pre-emption process described above. This is handled=20
   naturally, as packets will continue to be pre-emption marked and so=20
   the pre-emption process will happen for a second time. =20

   =20

3.3. Both admission control and pre-emption=20

   This document describes both the admission control and pre-emption=20
   mechanisms, and we suggest that an operator uses both. However, we do=20
   not require this and some operators may want to implement only one. =20

   For example, an operator could use just admission control, solving=20
   heavy congestion (caused by re-routing) by 'just waiting' - as=20
   sessions end, existing microflows naturally depart from the system=20
   over time, and the admission control mechanism will prevent admission=20
   of new microflows that use the affected links. So the CL-region will=20
   naturally return to normal controlled load service, but with reduced=20
   capacity. The drawback of this approach would be that until flows=20
   naturally depart to relieve the congestion, all flows and lower=20
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   priority services will be adversely affected. As another example, an=20
   operator could use just admission control, avoiding heavy congestion=20
   (caused by re-routing) by 'capacity planning' - by configuring=20
   admission control thresholds to lower levels than the network could=20
   accept in normal situations such that the load after failure is=20
   expected to stay below acceptable levels even with reduced network=20
   resources.=20

   On the other hand, an operator could just rely for admission control=20
   on the traffic conditioning agreements of the DiffServ architecture=20
   [RFC2475]. The pre-emption mechanism described in this document would=20
   be used to counteract the problem described at the end of Section=20
   1.1.1.=20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

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4. Summary of Functionality=20

   This section is intended to provide a systematic summary of the new=20
   functionality required by the routers in the CL-region.=20

   A network operator upgrades normal IP routers by:=20

   o Adding functionality related to admission control and flow pre-
      emption to all its ingress and egress gateways=20

   o Adding Pre-Congestion Notification for Admission Marking and Pre-
      emption Marking to all the routers in the CL-region.=20

   We consider the detailed actions required for each of the types of=20
   router in turn. =20

4.1. Ingress gateways=20

   Ingress gateways perform the following tasks:=20

   o Classify incoming packets - decide whether they are CL or non-CL=20
      packets. This is done using an IntServ filter spec (source and=20
      destination addresses and port numbers), whose details have been=20
      gathered from the RSVP messaging.=20

   o Police - check that the microflow conforms with what has been=20
      agreed (i.e. it keeps to its agreed data rate). If necessary,=20
      packets which do not correspond to any reservations, packets which=20
      are in excess of the rate agreed for their reservation, and=20
      packets for a reservation that has earlier been pre-empted may be=20
      policed. Policing may be achieved via dropping or via re-marking=20
      of the packet's DSCP to a value different from the CL behaviour=20
      aggregate.=20

   o ECN colouring packets - for CL microflows, set the ECN field of=20
      packets appropriately (see [PCN] for some discussion of encoding).=20

   o Perform 'interior router' functions (see next sub-section).=20

   o Admission Control - on new session establishment, consider the=20
      Congestion-Level-Estimate received from the corresponding egress=20
      gateway and most likely based on a simple configured CLE-threshold=20
      decide if a new call is to be admitted or rejected (taking into=20
      account local policy information as well as optionally information=20
      provided by a policy decision point).=20


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   o Probe - if requested by the egress gateway to do so, the ingress=20
      gateway generates probe traffic so that the egress gateway can=20
      compute the Congestion-Level-Estimate from this ingress gateway.=20
      Probe packets may be simple data addressed to the egress gateway=20
      and require no protocol standardisation, although there will be=20
      best practice for their number, size and rate.=20

   o Measure - when it receives a Pre-emption Alert message from an=20
      egress gateway, it determines the rate at which it is sending=20
      packets to that egress gateway=20

   o Pre-empt - calculate how much CL traffic needs to be pre-empted;=20
      decide which microflows should be dropped, perhaps in consultation=20
      with a Policy Decision Point; and do the necessary signalling to=20
      drop them.=20

4.2. Interior routers=20

   Interior routers do the following tasks:=20

   o Classify packets - examine the DSCP and ECN field to see if it's a=20
      CL packet=20

   o Non-CL packets are handled as usual, with respect to dropping them=20
      or setting their CE codepoint. =20

   o Pre-Congestion Notification - CL packets are Admission Marked and=20
      Pre-emption Marked according to the algorithm detailed in [PCN]=20
      and outlined in Section 3.=20

=20

4.3. Egress gateways=20

   Egress gateways do the following tasks:=20

   o Classify packets - determine which ingress gateway a CL packet has=20
      come from. This is the previous RSVP hop, hence the necessary=20
      details are obtained just as with IntServ from the state=20
      associated with the packet five-tuple, which has been built using=20
      information from the RSVP messages.=20






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   o Meter - for CL packets, calculate the fraction of the total number=20
      of bits which are in Admission marked packets or in Pre-emption=20
      Marked packets. The calculation is done as an exponentially=20
      weighted moving average (see Appendix C). A separate calculation=20
      is made for CL packets from each ingress gateway. The meter works=20
      on an aggregate basis and not per microflow.=20

   o Signal the Congestion-Level-Estimate - this is piggy-backed on the=20
      reservation reply. An egress gateway's interface is configured to=20
      know it is an egress gateway, so it always appends this to the=20
      RESV message. If the Congestion-Level-Estimate is unknown or is=20
      too stale, then the egress gateway can request the ingress gateway=20
      to send probes. =20

   o Packet colouring - for CL packets, set the DSCP and the ECN field=20
      to whatever has been agreed as appropriate for the next domain. By=20
      default the ECN field is set to the Not-ECT codepoint. See also=20
      the discussion in the Tunnelling section later. =20

   o Measure the rate - measure the rate of CL traffic from a=20
      particular ingress gateway, excluding packets that are Pre-emption=20
      Marked (i.e. the Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate for the CL-region-
      aggregate), when alerted (either explicitly or implicitly) that=20
      pre-emption may be required. The measured rate is reported back to=20
      the appropriate ingress gateway [RSVP-PCN]. =20

4.4. Failures =20

   If an interior router fails, then the regular IP routing protocol=20
   will re-route round it. If the new route can carry all the admitted=20
   traffic, flows will gracefully continue. If instead this causes early=20
   warning of pre-congestion on the new route, then admission control=20
   based on pre-congestion notification will ensure new flows will not=20
   be admitted until enough existing flows have departed. Finally re-
   routing may result in heavy congestion, when the flow pre-emption=20
   mechanism will kick in. =20

   If a gateway fails then we would like regular RSVP procedures=20
   [RFC2205] to take care of things. With the local repair mechanism of=20
   [RFC2205], when a route changes the next RSVP PATH refresh message=20
   will establish path state along the new route, and thus attempt to=20
   re-establish reservations through the new ingress gateway.=20
   Essentially the same procedure is used as described earlier in this=20
   document, with the re-routed session treated as a new session=20
   request.=20


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   In more detail, consider what happens if an ingress gateway of the=20
   CL-region fails. Then RSVP routers upstream of it do IP re-routing to=20
   a new ingress gateway. The next time the upstream RSVP router sends a=20
   PATH refresh message it reaches the new ingress gateway which=20
   therefore installs the associated RSVP state. The next RSVP RESV=20
   refresh will pick up the Congestion-Level-Estimate from the egress=20
   gateway, and the ingress compares this with its threshold to decide=20
   whether to admit the new session. This could result in some of the=20
   flows being rejected, but those accepted will receive the full QoS.=20

   An issue with this is that we have to wait until a PATH and RESV=20
   refresh messages are sent - which may not be very often - the default=20
   value is 30 seconds. [RFC2205] discusses how to speed up the local=20
   repair mechanism. First, the RSVP module is notified by the local=20
   routing protocol module of a route change to particular destinations,=20
   which triggers it to rapidly send out PATH refresh messages. Further,=20
   when a PATH refresh arrives with a previous hop address different=20
   from the one stored, then RESV refreshes are immediately sent to that=20
   previous hop. Where RSVP is operating hop-by-hop, i.e. on every=20
   router, then triggering the PATH refresh is easy as the router can=20
   simply monitor its local link. Thus, this fast local repair mechanism=20
   can be  used to deal with failures upstream of the ingress gateway,=20
   with failures of the ingress gateway and with failures downstream of=20
   the egress gateway.=20

   But where RSVP is not operating hop-by-hop (as is the case within the=20
   CL-region), it is not so easy to trigger the PATH refresh.=20

   Unfortunately, this problem applies if an egress gateway fails, since=20
   it's very likely that an egress gateway is several IP hops from the=20
   ingress gateway. (If the ingress is several IP hops from its previous=20
   RSVP node, then there is the same issue.) The options appear to be:=20

   o the ingress gateway has a link state database for the CL-region,=20
      so it can detect that an egress gateway has failed or became=20
      unreachable=20

   o there is an inter-gateway protocol, so the ingress can=20
      continuously check that the egress gateways are still alive=20

   o (default) do nothing and wait for the regular PATH/RESV refreshes=20
      (and, if needed, the pre-emption mechanism) to sort things out.=20

   =20

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5. Limitations and some potential solutions=20

   In this section we describe various limitations of the deployment=20
   model, and some suggestions about potential ways of alleviating them.=20
   The limitations fall into three broad categories:=20

   o ECMP (Section 5.1): the assumption about routing (Section 2.2) is=20
      that all packets between a pair of ingress and egress gateways=20
      follow the same path; ECMP breaks this assumption. A study=20
      regarding the accuracy of load balancing schemes can be found in=20
      [LoadBalancing-a] and [LoadBalancing-b].=20

   o The lack of global coordination (Sections 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4): a=20
      decision about admission control or flow pre-emption is made for=20
      one aggregate independently of other aggregates=20

   o Timing and accuracy of measurements (Sections 5.5 and 5.6): the=20
      assumption (Section 2.2) that additional load, offered within the=20
      reaction time of the measurement-based admission control=20
      mechanism, doesn't move the system directly from no congestion to=20
      overload (dropping packets). A 'flash crowd' may break this=20
      assumption (Section 5.5). There are a variety of more general=20
      issues associated with marking measurements, which may mean it's a=20
      good idea to do pre-emption 'slower' (Section 5.6).=20

   Each section describes a limitation and some possible solutions to=20
   alleviate the limitation. These are intended as options for an=20
   operator to consider, based on their particular requirements. =20

   We would welcome feedback, for example suggestions as to which=20
   potential solutions are worth working out in more detail, and ideas=20
   on new potential solutions.  =20

   Finally Section 5.7 considers some other potential extensions.=20

   =20

5.1. ECMP=20

   If the CL-region uses Equal Cost Multipath Routing (ECMP), then=20
   traffic between a particular pair of ingress and egress gateways may=20
   follow several different paths.=20

   Why? An ECMP-enabled router runs an algorithm to choose between=20
   potential outgoing links, based on a hash of fields such as the=20
   packet's source and destination addresses - exactly what depends on=20
   the proprietary algorithm. Packets are addressed to the CL flow's=20
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   end-point, and therefore different flows may follow different paths=20
   through the CL-region. (All packets of an individual flow follow the=20
   same ECMP path.)=20

   The problem is that if one of the paths is congested such that=20
   packets are being admission marked, then the Congestion-Level-
   Estimate measured by the egress gateway will be diluted by unmarked=20
   packets from other non-congested paths. Similarly, the measurement of=20
   the Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate will also be diluted. =20

   Possible solution approaches are:=20

   o tunnel: traffic is tunnelled across the CL-region. Then the=20
      destination address (and so on) seen by the ECMP algorithm is that=20
      of the egress gateway, so all flows follow the same path.=20
      Effectively ECMP is turned off. As a compromise, to try to retain=20
      some of the benefits of ECMP, there could be several tunnels, each=20
      following a different ECMP path, with flows randomly assigned to=20
      different tunnels. =20

   o assume worst case: the operator sets the configured-admission-rate=20
      (and configured-pre-emption-rate) to below the optimum level to=20
      compensate for the fact that the effect on the Congestion-Level-
      Estimate (and Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate) of the congestion=20
      experienced over one of the paths may be diluted by traffic=20
      received over non-congested paths. Hence lower thresholds need to=20
      be used to ensure early admission control rejection and pre-
      emption over the congested path. This approach will waste capacity=20
      (e.g. flows following a non-congested ECMP path are not admitted=20
      or are pre-empted), and there is still the danger that for some=20
      traffic mixes the operator hasn't been cautious enough.=20

   o for admission control, probe to obtain a flow-specific congestion-
      level-estimate. Earlier this document suggests continuously=20
      monitoring the congestion-level-estimate. Instead, probe packets=20
      could be sent for each prospective new flow. The probe packets=20
      have the same IP address etc as the data packets would have, and=20
      hence follow the same ECMP path. However, probing is an extra=20
      overhead, depending on how many probe packets need to be sent to=20
      get a sufficiently accurate congestion-level-estimate. Probes also=20
      cause a processing overhead, either for the machine at the=20
      destination address or for the egress gateway to identify and=20
      remove the probe packets.=20




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   o for flow pre-emption, only select flows for pre-emption from=20
      amongst those that have actually received a Pre-emption Marked=20
      packet. Because these flows must have followed an ECMP path that=20
      goes through an overloaded router. However, it needs some extra=20
      work by the egress gateway, to record this information and report=20
      it to the ingress gateway. =20

   o for flow pre-emption, a variant of this idea involves introducing=20
      a new marking behaviour, 'Router Marking'. A router that is pre-
      emption marking packets on an outgoing link, also 'Router Marks'=20
      all other packets. When selecting flows for pre-emption, the=20
      selection is made from amongst those that have actually received a=20
      Router Marked or Pre-emption Marked packet. Hence compared with=20
      the previous bullet, it may extend the range of flows from which=20
      the pre-emption selection is made (i.e. it includes those which,=20
      by chance, haven't had any pre-emption marked packets). However,=20
      it also requires that the 'Router Marking' state is somehow=20
      encoded into a packet, i.e. it makes harder the encoding challenge=20
      discussed in Appendix C of [PCN]. The extra work required by the=20
      egress gateway would also be somewhat higher than for the previous=20
      bullet. =20

   =20

5.2. Beat down effect=20

   This limitation concerns the pre-emption mechanism in the case where=20
   more than one router is pre-emption marking packets. The result=20
   (explained in the next paragraph) is that the measurement of=20
   sustainable-aggregate-rate is lower than its true value, so more=20
   traffic is pre-empted than necessary.=20

   Imagine the scenario:=20

                 +-------+     +-------+     +-------+=20
   IAR-b=3D3 >@@@@@| CPR=3D2 |@@@@@| CPR>2 |@@@@@| CPR=3D1 |@@> SAR-b=3D1=
 =20
   IAR-a=3D1 >#####|  R1   |#####|  R2   |     |  R3   | =20
                 +-------+     +-------+     +-------+=20
                                  #=20
                                  #=20
                                  #=20
                                  v SAR-a=3D0.5=20
   =20
   Figure 4: Scenario to illustrate 'beat down effect' limitation=20
   =20
   Aggregate-a (ingress-aggregate-rate, IAR, 1 unit) takes a 'short'=20
   route through two routers, one of which (R1) is above its configured-
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   pre-emption-rate (CPR, 2 units). Aggregate-b takes a 'long' route,=20
   going through a second congested router (R3, with a CPR of 1 unit). =20

   R1's input traffic is 4 units, twice its configured-pre-emption-rate,=20
   so 50% of packets are pre-emption marked. Hence the measured=20
   sustainable-aggregate-rate (SAR) for aggregate-a is 0.5, and half of=20
   its traffic will be pre-empted. =20

   R3's input of non-pre-emption-marked traffic is 1.5 units, and=20
   therefore it has to do further marking. =20

   But this means that aggregate-a has taken a bigger hit than it needed=20
   to; the router R1 could have let through all of aggregate-a's traffic=20
   unmarked if it had known that the second router R2 was going to "beat=20
   down" aggregate-b's traffic further. =20

   Generalising, the result is that in a scenario where more than one=20
   router is pre-emption marking packets, only the final router is sure=20
   to be fully loaded after flow pre-emption. The fundamental reason is=20
   that a router makes a local decision about which packets to pre-
   emption mark, i.e. independently of how other routers are pre-emption=20
   marking. A very similar effect has been noted in XCP [Low].=20

   Potential solutions:=20

   o a full solution would involve routers learning about other routers=20
      that are pre-emption marking, and being able to differentially=20
      mark flows (e.g. in the example above, aggregate-a's packets=20
      wouldn't be marked by R1). This seems hard and complex.=20

   o do nothing about this limitation. It causes over-pre-emption,=20
      which is safe. At the moment this is our suggested option. =20














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   o do pre-emption 'slowly'. The description earlier in this document=20
      assumes that after the measurements of ingress-aggregate-rate and=20
      sustainable-aggregate-rate, then sufficient flows are pre-empted=20
      in 'one shot' to eliminate the excess traffic. An alternative is=20
      to spread pre-emption over several rounds: initially, only pre-
      empt enough to eliminate some of the excess traffic, then re-
      measure the sustainable-aggregate-rate, and then pre-empt some=20
      more, etc. In the scenario above, the re-measurement would be=20
      lower than expected, due to the beat down effect, and hence in the=20
      second round of pre-emption less of aggregate-a's traffic would be=20
      pre-empted (perhaps none). Overall, therefore the impact of the=20
      'beat down' effect would be lessened, i.e. there would be a=20
      smaller degree of over pre-emption. The downside is that the=20
      overall pre-emption is slower, and therefore routers will be=20
      congested longer. =20

   =20

   =20

5.3. Bi-directional sessions=20

   The document earlier describes how to decide whether or not to admit=20
   (or pre-empt) a particular flow. However, from a user/application=20
   perspective, the session is the relevant unit of granularity. A=20
   session can consist of several flows which may not all be part of the=20
   same aggregate. The most obvious example is a bi-directional session,=20
   where the two flows should ideally be admitted or pre-empted as a=20
   pair - for instance a voice call only makes sense if A can send to B=20
   as well as B to A! But the admission and pre-emption mechanisms=20
   described earlier in this document operate on a per-aggregate basis,=20
   independently of what's happening with other aggregates. For=20
   admission control the problem isn't serious: e.g. the SIP server for=20
   the voice call can easily detect that the A-to-B flow has been=20
   admitted but the B-to-A flow blocked, and inform the user perhaps via=20
   a busy tone. For flow pre-emption, the problem is similar but more=20
   serious. If both the aggregate-1-to-2 (i.e. from gateway 1 to gateway=20
   2) and the aggregate-2-to-1 have to pre-empt flows, then it would be=20
   good if either all of the flows of a particular session were pre-
   empted or none of them. Therefore if the two aggregates pre-empt=20
   flows independently of each other, more sessions will end up being=20
   torn down than is really necessary. For instance, pre-empting one=20
   direction of a voice call will result in the SIP server tearing down=20
   the other direction anyway. =20

   =20

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   Potential solutions:=20

   o if it's known that all session are bi-directional, simply pre-
      empting roughly half as many flows as suggested by the=20
      measurements of {ingress-aggregate-rate - sustainable-aggregate-
      rate}. But this makes a big assumption about the nature of=20
      sessions, and also that the aggregate-1-to-2 and aggregate-2-to-1=20
      are equally overloaded. =20

   o ignore the limitation. The penalty will be quite small if most=20
      sessions consist of one flow or of flows part of the same=20
      aggregate. =20

   o introduce a gateway controller. It would receive reports for all=20
      aggregates where the ingress-aggregate-rate exceeds the=20
      sustainable-aggregate-rate. It then would make a global decision=20
      about which flows to pre-empt. However it requires quite some=20
      complexity, for example the controller needs to understand which=20
      flows map to which sessions. This may be an option in some=20
      scenarios, for example where gateways aren't handling too many=20
      flows (but note that this breaks the aggregation assumption of=20
      Section 2.2). A variant of this idea would be to introduce a=20
      gateway controller per pair of gateways, in order to handle bi-
      directional sessions but not try to deal with more complex=20
      sessions that include flows from an arbitrary number of=20
      aggregates. =20

   o do pre-emption 'slowly'. As in the "beat down" solution 4, this=20
      would reduce the impact of this limitation. The downside is that=20
      the overall pre-emption is slower, and therefore router(s) will be=20
      congested longer.  =20













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   o each ingress gateway 'loosely coordinates' with other gateways its=20
      decision about which specific flows to pre-empt. Each gateway=20
      numbers flows in the order they arrive (note that this number has=20
      no meaning outside the gateway), and when pre-empting flows, the=20
      most recent (or most recent low priority flow) is selected for=20
      pre-emption; the gateway then works backwards selecting as many=20
      flows as needed. Gateways will therefore tend to pre-empt flows=20
      that are part of the same session (as they were admitted at the=20
      same time). Of course this isn't guaranteed for several reasons,=20
      for instance gateway A's most recent bi-directional sessions may=20
      be with gateway C, whereas gateway B's are with gateway A (so=20
      gateway A will pre-empt A-to-C flows and gateway B will pre-empt=20
      B-to-A flows). Rather than pre-empting the most recent (low=20
      priority) flow, an alternative algorithm (for further study) may=20
      be to select flows based on a hash of particular fields in the=20
      packet, such that both gateways produce the same hash for flows of=20
      the same bi-directional session. We believe that this approach=20
      should be investigated further.=20

   =20

   =20

   =20

5.4. Global fairness=20

   The limitation here is that 'high priority' traffic may be pre-empted=20
   (or not admitted) when a global decision would instead pre-empt (or=20
   not admit) 'lower priority' traffic on a different aggregate.=20

   Imagine the following scenario (extreme to illustrate the point=20
   clearly). Aggregate_a is all Assured Services (MLPP) traffic, whilst=20
   aggregate_b is all ordinary traffic (i.e. comparatively low=20
   priority). Together the two aggregates cause a router to be at twice=20
   its configured-pre-emption-rate. Ideally we'd like all of aggregate_b=20
   to be pre-empted, as then all of aggregate_a could be carried.=20
   However, the approach described earlier in this document leads to=20
   half of each aggregate being pre-empted.=20







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                       IAR_b=3D1=20
                         v=20
                         v=20
                     +-------+              =20
   IAR_a=3D1 ---->-----| CPR=3D1 |-----> SAR_a=3D0.5=20
                     |       |=20
                     +-------+             =20
                         v=20
                         v=20
                       SAR_a=3D0.5=20
   =20
   Figure 5: Scenario to illustrate 'global fairness' limitation=20
   =20

   Similarly, for admission control - Section 4.1 describes how if the=20
   Congestion-Level-Estimate is greater than the CLE-threshold all new=20
   sessions are refused. But it is unsatisfactory to block emergency=20
   calls, for instance. =20

   =20

   Potential solutions:=20

   o in the admission control case, it is recommended that an=20
      'emergency / Assured Services' call is admitted immediately even=20
      if the CLE-threshold is exceeded. Usually the network can actually=20
      handle the additional microflow, because there is a safety margin=20
      between the configured-admission-rate and the configured-pre-
      emption-rate. Normal call termination behaviour will soon bring=20
      the traffic level down below the configured-admission-rate.=20
      However, in exceptional circumstances the 'emergency / higher=20
      precedence' call may cause the traffic level to exceed the=20
      configured-pre-emption-rate; then the usual pre-emption mechanism=20
      will pre-empt enough (non 'emergency / higher precedence')=20
      microflows to bring the total traffic back under the configured-
      pre-emption-rate.=20

   o all egress gateways report to a global coordinator that makes=20
      decisions about what flows to pre-empt. However this solution adds=20
      complexity and probably isn't scalable, but it may be an option in=20
      some scenarios, for example where gateways aren't handling too=20
      many flows (but note that this breaks the aggregation assumption=20
      of Section 2.2). =20




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   o introduce a heuristic rule: before pre-empting a 'high priority'=20
      flow the egress gateway should wait to see if sufficient (lower=20
      priority) traffic is pre-empted on other aggregates. This is a=20
      reasonable option.=20

   o enhance the functionality of all the interior routers, so they can=20
      detect the priority of a packet, and then differentially mark=20
      them. As well as adding complexity, in general this would be an=20
      unacceptable security risk for MLPP traffic, since only controlled=20
      nodes (like gateways) should know which packets are high priority,=20
      as this information can be abused by an attacker. =20

   o do nothing, i.e. accept the limitation. Whilst it's unlikely that=20
      high priority calls will be quite so unbalanced as in the scenario=20
      above, just accepting this limitation may be risky. The sorts of=20
      situations that cause routers to start pre-emption marking are=20
      also likely to cause a surge of emergency / MLPP calls. =20

   =20

   =20

5.5. Flash crowds=20

   This limitation concerns admission control and arises because there=20
   is a time lag between the admission control decision (which depends=20
   on the Congestion-Level-Estimate during RSVP signalling during call=20
   set-up) and when the data is actually sent (after the called party=20
   has answered). In PSTN terms this is the time the phone rings.=20
   Normally the time lag doesn't matter much because (1) in the CL-
   region there are many flows and they terminate and are answered at=20
   roughly the same rate, and (2) the network can still operate safely=20
   when the traffic level is some margin above the configured-admission-
   rate.=20

   A 'flash crowd' occurs when something causes many calls to be=20
   initiated in a short period of time - for instance a 'tele-vote'. So=20
   there is a danger that a 'flash' of calls is accepted, but when the=20
   calls are answered and data flows the traffic overloads the network.=20
   Therefore potentially the 'additional load' assumption of Section 2.2=20
   doesn't hold. =20

   Potential solutions:=20




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   o The simplest option is to do nothing; an operator relies on the=20
      pre-emption mechanism if there is a problem. This doesn't seem a=20
      good choice, as 'flash crowds' are reasonably common on the PSTN,=20
      unless the operator can ensure that nearly all 'flash crowd'=20
      events are blocked in the access network and so do not impact on=20
      the CL-region.=20

   o A second option is to send 'dummy data' as soon as the call is=20
      admitted, thus effectively reserving the bandwidth whilst waiting=20
      for the called party to answer. Reserving bandwidth in advance=20
      means that the network cannot admit as many calls. For example,=20
      suppose sessions last 100 seconds and ringing for 10 seconds, the=20
      cost is a 10% loss of capacity. It may be possible to offset this=20
      somewhat by increasing the configured-admission-rate in the=20
      routers, but it would need further investigation. A concern with=20
      this 'dummy data' option is that it may allow an attacker to=20
      initiate many calls that are never answered (by a cooperating=20
      attacker), so eventually the network would only be carrying 'dummy=20
      data'. The attack exploits that charging only starts when the call=20
      is answered and not when it is dialled. It may be possible to=20
      alleviate the attack at the session layer - for example, when the=20
      ingress gateway gets an RSVP PATH message it checks that the=20
      source has been well-behaved recently; and limiting the maximum=20
      time that ringing can last. We believe that if this attack can be=20
      dealt with then this is a good option. =20

   o A third option is that the egress gateway limits the rate at which=20
      it sends out the Congestion-Level-Estimate, or limits the rate at=20
      which calls are accepted by replying with a Congestion-Level-
      Estimate of 100% (this is the equivalent of 'call gapping' in the=20
      PSTN). There is a trade-off, which would need to be investigated=20
      further, between the degree of protection and possible adverse=20
      side-effects like slowing down call set-up.=20

   o A final option is to re-perform admission control before the call=20
      is answered. The ingress gateway monitors Congestion-Level-
      Estimate updates received from each egress. If it notices that a=20
      Congestion-Level-Estimate has risen above the CLE-threshold, then=20
      it terminates all unanswered calls through that egress (e.g. by=20
      instructing the session protocol to stop the 'ringing tone'). For=20
      extra safety the Congestion-Level-Estimate could be re-checked=20
      when the call is answered. A potential drawback for an operator=20
      that wants to emulate the PSTN is that the PSTN network never=20
      drops a 'ringing' PSTN call. =20

   =20

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   =20

5.6. Pre-empting too fast=20

   As a general idea it seems good to pre-empt excess flows rapidly, so=20
   that the full QoS is restored to the remaining CL users as soon as=20
   possible, and partial service is restored to lower priority traffic=20
   classes on shared links. Therefore the pre-emption mechanism=20
   described earlier in this document works in 'one shot', i.e. one=20
   measurement is made of the sustainable-aggregate-rate and the=20
   ingress-aggregate-rate, and the excess is pre-empted immediately.=20
   However, there are some reasons why an operator may potentially want=20
   to pre-empt 'more slowly':=20

   o To allow time to modify the ingress gateway's policer, as the=20
      ingress wants to be able to drop any packets that arrive from a=20
      pre-empted flow. There will be a limit on how many new filters an=20
      ingress gateway can install in a certain time period. Otherwise=20
      the source may cheat and ignore the instruction to drop its flow. =20

   o The operator may decide to slow down pre-emption in order to=20
      ameliorate the 'beat down' and/or 'bi-directional sessions'=20
      limitations (see above)=20

   o To help combat inaccuracies in measurements of the sustainable-
      aggregate-rate and ingress-aggregate-rate. For a CL-region where=20
      it's assumed there are many flows in an aggregate these=20
      measurements can be obtained in a short period of time, but where=20
      there are fewer flows it will take longer.=20

   o To help combat over pre-emption because, during the time it takes=20
      to pre-empt flows, others may be ending anyway (either the call=20
      has naturally ended, or the user hangs up due to poor QoS).=20
      Slowing pre-emption may seem counter-intuitive here, as it makes=20
      it more likely that calls will terminate anyway - however it also=20
      gives time to adjust the amount pre-empted to take account of=20
      this.=20

   o Earlier in this document we said that an egress starts measuring=20
      the sustainable-aggregate-rate immediately it sees a single pre-
      emption marked packet. However, when a link or router fails the=20
      network's underlying recovery mechanism will kick in (e.g.=20
      switching to a back up path), which may result in the network=20
      again being able to support all the traffic.=20

   =20

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   =20

   Potential solutions=20

   o To combat the final issue, the egress could measure the=20
      sustainable-aggregate-rate over a longer time period than the=20
      network recovery time (say 100ms vs. 50ms). If it detects no pre-
      emption marked packets towards the end of its measurement period=20
      (say in the last 30 ms) then it doesn't send a pre-emption alert=20
      message to the ingress.=20

   o We suggest that optionally (the choice of the operator) pre-
      emption is slowed by pre-empting traffic in several rounds rather=20
      than in one shot. One possible algorithm is to pre-empt most of=20
      the traffic in the first round and the rest in the second round;=20
      the amount pre-empted in the second round is influenced by both=20
      the first and second round measurements:     * Round 1: pre-empt h=20
      * S_1                                 where 0.5 <=3D h <=3D 1      =
          =20
      where S_1 is the amount the normal mechanism calculates that it=20
      should shed, i.e. {ingress-aggregate-rate - sustainable-aggregate-
      rate}        * Round 2: pre-empt Predicted-S_2 - h * (Predicted-
      S_2 - Measured-S_2)                                              =20
      where Predicted-S_2 =3D (1-h)*S_1                              Note=
=20
      that the second measurement should be made when sufficient time=20
      has elapsed for the first round of pre-emption to have happened.=20
      One idea to achieve this is for the egress gateway to continuously=20
      measure and report its sustainable-aggregate-rate, in (say) 100ms=20
      windows. Therefore the ingress gateway knows when the egress=20
      gateway made its measurement (assuming the round trip time is=20
      known). Therefore the ingress gateway knows when measurements=20
      should reflect that it has pre-empted flows. =20

=20

=20

5.7. Other potential extensions=20

   In this section we discuss some other potential extensions not=20
   already covered above.=20

5.7.1. Tunnelling=20

   It is possible to tunnel all CL packets across the CL-region.=20
   Although there is a cost of tunnelling (additional header on each=20
   packet, additional processing at tunnel ingress and egress), there=20
   are three reasons it may be interesting.=20
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   ECMP: =20

   Tunnelling is one of the possible solutions given earlier in Section=20
   5.1 on Equal Cost Multipath Routing (ECMP).=20

   Ingress gateway determination:=20

   If packets are tunnelled from ingress gateway to egress gateway, the=20
   egress gateway can very easily determine in the data path which=20
   ingress gateway a packet comes from (by simply looking at the source=20
   address of the tunnel header). This can facilitate operations such as=20
   computing the Congestion-Level-Estimate on a per ingress gateway=20
   basis.=20

   End-to-end ECN:=20

   The ECN field is used for PCN marking (see [PCN] for details), and so=20
   it needs to be re-set by the egress gateway to whatever has been=20
   agreed as appropriate for the next domain. Therefore if a packet=20
   arrives at the ingress gateway with its ECN field already set (i.e.=20
   not '00'), it may leave the egress gateway with a different value.=20
   Hence the end-to-end meaning of the ECN field is lost. =20

   It is open to debate whether end-to-end congestion control is ever=20
   necessary within an end-to-end reservation. But if a genuine need is=20
   identified for end-to-end ECN semantics within a reservation, then=20
   one solution is to tunnel CL packets across the CL-region. When the=20
   egress gateway decapsulates them the original ECN field is recovered. =
=20

=20

5.7.2. Multi-domain and multi-operator usage=20

   This potential extension would eliminate the trust assumption=20
   (Section 2.2), so that the CL-region could consist of multiple=20
   domains run by different operators that did not trust each other.=20
   Then only the ingress and egress gateways of the CL-region would take=20
   part in the admission control procedure, i.e. at the ingress to the=20
   first domain and the egress from the final domain. The border routers=20
   between operators within the CL-region would only have to do bulk=20
   accounting - they wouldn't do per microflow metering and policing,=20
   and they wouldn't take part in signal processing or hold per flow=20
   state [Briscoe]. [Re-feedback] explains how a downstream domain can=20
   police that its upstream domain does not 'cheat' by admitting traffic=20
   when the downstream path is congested. [Re-PCN] proposes how to=20
   achieve this with the help of another recently proposed extension to=20
   ECN, involving re-echoing ECN feedback [Re-ECN].  =20
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5.7.3. Preferential dropping of pre-emption marked packets=20

   When the rate of real-time traffic in the specified class exceeds the=20
   maximum configured rate, then a router has to drop some packet(s)=20
   instead of forwarding them on the out-going link. Now when the egress=20
   gateway measures the Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate, neither dropped=20
   packets nor pre-emption marked packets contribute to it. Dropping=20
   non-pre-emption-marked packets therefore reduces the measured=20
   Sustainable-Aggregate-Rate below its true value. Thus a router should=20
   preferentially drop pre-emption marked packets. =20

   Note that it is important that the operator doesn't set the=20
   configured-pre-emption-rate equal to the rate at which packets start=20
   being dropped (for the specified real-time service class). Otherwise=20
   the egress gateway may never see a pre-emption marked packet and so=20
   won't be triggered into the Pre-emption Alert state. =20

   This optimisation is optional. When considering whether to use it an=20
   operator will consider issues such as whether the over-pre-emption is=20
   serious, and whether the particular routers can easily do this sort=20
   of selective drop.=20

   =20

5.7.4. Adaptive bandwidth for the Controlled Load service=20

   The admission control mechanism described in this document assumes=20
   that each router has a fixed bandwidth allocated to CL flows. A=20
   possible extension is that the bandwidth is flexible, depending on=20
   the level of non-CL traffic. If a large share of the current load on=20
   a path is CL, then more CL traffic can be admitted. And if the=20
   greater share of the load is non-CL, then the admission threshold can=20
   be proportionately lower. The approach re-arranges sharing between=20
   classes to aim for economic efficiency, whatever the traffic load=20
   matrix. It also deals with unforeseen changes to capacity during=20
   failures better than configuring fixed engineered rates. Adaptive=20
   bandwidth allocation can be achieved by changing the admission=20
   marking behaviour, so that the probability of admission marking a=20
   packet would now depend on the number of queued non-CL packets as=20
   well as the size of the virtual queue. The adaptive bandwidth=20
   approach would be supplemented by placing limits on the adaptation to=20
   prevent starvation of the CL by other traffic classes and of other=20
   classes by CL traffic. [Songhurst] has more details of the adaptive=20
   bandwidth approach.=20



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5.7.5. Controlled Load service with end-to-end Pre-Congestion=20
   Notification=20

   It may be possible to extend the framework to parts of the network=20
   where there are only a low number of CL microflows, i.e. the=20
   aggregation assumption (Section 2.2) doesn't hold. In the extreme it=20
   may be possible to operate the framework end-to-end, i.e. between end=20
   hosts. One potential method is to send probe packets to test whether=20
   the network can support a prospective new CL microflow. The probe=20
   packets would be sent at the same traffic rate as expected for the=20
   actual microflow, but in order not to disturb existing CL traffic a=20
   router would always schedule probe packets behind CL ones (compare=20
   [Breslau00]); this implies they have a new DSCP. Otherwise the=20
   routers would treat probe packets identically to CL packets. In order=20
   to perform admission control quickly, in parts of the network where=20
   there are only a few CL microflows, the algorithm for Admission=20
   Marking described in [PCN] would need to "switch on" very rapidly, ie=20
   go from marking no packets to marking them all for only a minimal=20
   increase in the size of the virtual queue.=20

5.7.6. MPLS-TE=20

   [ECN-MPLS] discusses how to extend the deployment model to MPLS, i.e.=20
   for admission control of microflows into a set of MPLS-TE aggregates=20
   (Multi-protocol label switching traffic engineering). It would=20
   require that the MPLS header could include the ECN field, which is=20
   not precluded by RFC3270. See [ECN-MPLS].=20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

   =20

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6. Relationship to other QoS mechanisms=20

6.1. IntServ Controlled Load=20

   The CL mechanism delivers QoS similar to Integrated Services=20
   controlled load, but rather better. The reason the QoS is better is=20
   that the CL mechanism keeps the real queues empty, by driving=20
   admission control from a bulk virtual queue on each interface. The=20
   virtual queue [AVQ, vq] can detect a rise in load before the real=20
   queue builds. It is also more robust to route changes. =20

6.2. Integrated services operation over DiffServ=20

   Our approach to end-to-end QoS is similar to that described in=20
   [RFC2998] for Integrated services operation over DiffServ networks.=20
   Like [RFC2998], an IntServ class (CL in our case) is achieved end-to-
   end, with a CL-region viewed as a single reservation hop in the total=20
   end-to-end path. Interior routers of the CL-region do not process=20
   flow signalling nor do they hold per flow state. Unlike [RFC2998] we=20
   do not require the end-to-end signalling mechanism to be RSVP,=20
   although it can be. =20

   Bearing in mind these differences, we can describe our architecture=20
   in the terms of the options in [RFC2998]. The DiffServ network region=20
   is RSVP-aware, but awareness is confined to (what [RFC2998] calls)=20
   the "border routers" of the DiffServ region. We use explicit=20
   admission control into this region, with static provisioning within=20
   it. The ingress "border router" does per microflow policing and sets=20
   the DSCP and ECN fields to indicate the packets are CL ones (i.e. we=20
   use router marking rather than host marking).=20

6.3. Differentiated Services=20

   The DiffServ architecture does not specify any way for devices=20
   outside the domain to dynamically reserve resources or receive=20
   indications of network resource availability.  In practice, service=20
   providers rely on subscription-time Service Level Agreements (SLAs)=20
   that statically define the parameters of the traffic that will be=20
   accepted from a customer. The CL mechanism allows dynamic reservation=20
   of resources through the DiffServ domain and, with the potential=20
   extension mentioned in Section 5.7.2, it can span multiple domains=20
   without active policing mechanisms at the borders (unlike DiffServ).=20
   Therefore we do not use the traffic conditioning agreements (TCAs) of=20
   the (informational) DiffServ architecture [RFC2475]. =20

   An important benefit arises from the fact that the load is controlled=20
   dynamically rather than with traffic conditioning agreements (TCAs).=20
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   TCAs were originally introduced in the (informational) DiffServ=20
   architecture [RFC2475] as an alternative to reservation processing in=20
   the interior region in order to reduce the burden on interior=20
   routers. With TCAs, in practice service providers rely on=20
   subscription-time Service Level Agreements that statically define the=20
   parameters of the traffic that will be accepted from a customer. The=20
   problem arises because the TCA at the ingress must allow any=20
   destination address, if it is to remain scalable. But for longer=20
   topologies, the chances increase that traffic will focus on an=20
   interior resource, even though it is within contract at the ingress=20
   [Reid], e.g. all flows converge on the same egress gateway. Even=20
   though networks can be engineered to make such failures rare, when=20
   they occur all inelastic flows through the congested resource fail=20
   catastrophically. =20

   [Johnson] compares admission control with a 'generously dimensioned'=20
   DiffServ network as ways to achieve QoS. The former is recommended. =20

6.4. ECN=20

   The marking behaviour described in this document complies with the=20
   ECN aspects of the IP wire protocol RFC3168, but provides its own=20
   edge-to-edge feedback instead of the TCP aspects of RFC3168. All=20
   routers within the CL-region are upgraded with the admission marking=20
   and pre-emption marking of Pre-Congestion Notification, so the=20
   requirements of [Floyd] are met because the CL-region is an enclosed=20
   environment. The operator prevents traffic arriving at a router that=20
   doesn't understand CL by administrative configuration of the ring of=20
   gateways around the CL-region. =20

6.5. RTECN=20

   Real-time ECN (RTECN) [RTECN, RTECN-usage] has a similar aim to this=20
   document (to achieve a low delay, jitter and loss service suitable=20
   for RT traffic) and a similar approach (per microflow admission=20
   control combined with an "early warning" of potential congestion=20
   through setting the CE codepoint). But it explores a different=20
   architecture without the aggregation assumption: host-to-host rather=20
   than edge-to-edge. We plan to document such a host-to-host framework=20
   in a parallel draft to this one, and to describe if and how [PCN] can=20
   work in this framework. =20

   =20




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6.6. RMD=20

   Resource Management in DiffServ (RMD) [RMD] is similar to this work,=20
   in that it pushes complex classification, traffic conditioning and=20
   admission control functions to the edge of a DiffServ domain and=20
   simplifies the operation of the interior routers. One of the RMD=20
   modes ("Congestion notification function based on probing") uses=20
   measurement-based admission control in a similar way to this=20
   document. The main difference is that in RMD probing plays a=20
   significant role in the admission control process. Other differences=20
   are that the admission control decision is taken on the egress=20
   gateway (rather than the ingress); 'admission marking' is encoded in=20
   a packet as a new DSCP (rather than in the ECN field), and that the=20
   NSIS protocols are used for signalling (rather than RSVP).=20

   RMD also includes the concept of Severe Congestion handling. The pre-
   emption mechanism described in the CL architecture has similar=20
   objectives but relies on different mechanisms. The main difference is=20
   that the interior routers measure the data rate that causes an=20
   overload and mark packets according to this rate. =20

6.7. RSVP Aggregation over MPLS-TE=20

   Multi-protocol label switching traffic engineering (MPLS-TE) allows=20
   scalable reservation of resources in the core for an aggregate of=20
   many microflows. To achieve end-to-end reservations, admission=20
   control and policing of microflows into the aggregate can be achieved=20
   using techniques such as RSVP Aggregation over MPLS TE Tunnels as per=20
   [AGGRE-TE]. However, in the case of inter-provider environments,=20
   these techniques require that admission control and policing be=20
   repeated at each trust boundary or that MPLS TE tunnels span multiple=20
   domains. =20

6.8. Other Network Admission Control Approaches=20

   Link admission control (LAC) describes how admission control (AC) can=20
   be done on a single link and comprises, e.g., the calculation of=20
   effective bandwidths which may be the base for a parameter-based AC.=20
   In contrast, network AC (NAC) describes how AC can be done for a=20
   network and focuses on the locations from which data is gathered for=20
   the admission decision. Most approaches implement a link budget based=20
   NAC (LB NAC) where each link has a certain AC-budget. RSVP works=20
   according to that principle, but also the new concept admits=20
   additional flows as long as each link on the new flow's path still=20
   has resources available. The border-to-border budget based NAC (BBB=20
   NAC) pre-configures an AC budget for all border-to-border=20
   relationships (=3D CL-region-aggregates) and if this capacity budget i=
s=20
=20
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   exhausted, new flows are rejected. The TCA-based admission control=20
   which is associated with the DiffServ architecture implements an=20
   ingress budget based NAC (IB NAC). These basically different concepts=20
   have different flexibility and efficiency with regard to the use of=20
   link bandwidths [NAC-a,NAC-b]. They can be made resilient by choosing=20
   the budgets in such a way that the network will not be congested=20
   after rerouting due to a failure. The efficiency of the approaches is=20
   different with and without such resilient requirements.=20

=20

7. Security Considerations=20

   To protect against denial of service attacks, the ingress gateway of=20
   the CL-region needs to police all CL packets and drop packets in=20
   excess of the reservation. This is similar to operations with=20
   existing IntServ behaviour.=20

   For pre-emption, it is considered acceptable from a security=20
   perspective that the ingress gateway can treat "emergency/military"=20
   CL flows preferentially compared with "ordinary" CL flows. However,=20
   in the rest of the CL-region they are not distinguished (nonetheless,=20
   our proposed technique does not preclude the use of different DSCPs=20
   at the packet level as well as different priorities at the flow=20
   level.). Keeping emergency traffic indistinguishable at the packet=20
   level minimises the opportunity for new security attacks. For=20
   example, if instead a mechanism used different DSCPs for=20
   "emergency/military" and "ordinary" packets, then an attacker could=20
   specifically target the former in the data plane (perhaps for DoS or=20
   for eavesdropping).=20

   Further security aspects to be considered later.  =20

   =20

8. Acknowledgements=20

   The admission control mechanism evolved from the work led by Martin=20
   Karsten on the Guaranteed Stream Provider developed in the M3I=20
   project [GSPa, GSP-TR], which in turn was based on the theoretical=20
   work of Gibbens and Kelly [DCAC]. Kennedy Cheng, Gabriele Corliano,=20
   Carla Di Cairano-Gilfedder, Kashaf Khan, Peter Hovell, Arnaud Jacquet=20
   and June Tay (BT) helped develop and evaluate this approach.=20

   Many thanks to those who have commented on this work at Transport=20
   Area Working Group meetings and on the mailing list, including: Ken=20

=20
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   Carlberg, Ruediger Geib, Lars Westberg, David Black, Robert Hancock,=20
   Cornelia Kappler, Michael Menth.=20

9. Comments solicited=20

   Comments and questions are encouraged and very welcome. They can be=20
   sent to the Transport Area Working Group's mailing list,=20
   tsvwg@ietf.org, and/or to the authors.=20

   =20

10. Changes from earlier versions of the draft=20

   The main changes are:=20

   From -00 to -01 =20

   The whole of the Pre-emption mechanism is added.=20

   There are several modifications to the admission control mechanism.=20

   =20

   From -01 to -02=20

   The pre-congestion notification algorithms for admission marking and=20
   pre-emption marking are now described in [PCN].=20

   There are new sub-sections in Section 4 on Failures, Admission of=20
   'emergency / higher precedence' session, and Tunnelling; and a new=20
   sub-section in Section 5 on Mechanisms to deal with 'Flash crowds'.=20

   =20

   From -02 to -03=20

   Section 5 has been updated and expanded. It is now about the=20
   'limitations' of the PCN mechanism, as described in the earlier=20
   sections, plus discussion of 'possible solutions' to those=20
   limitations. =20

   The measurement of the Congestion-Level-Estimate now includes pre-
   emption marked packets as well as admission marked ones. Section=20
   3.1.2 explains.  =20

   =20

=20
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   From -03 to -04=20

   Detailed review by Michael Menth. In response, Abstract, Summary and=20
   Key benefits sections re-written. Numerous detailed comments on=20
   Sections 5 and following sections. =20

   =20

   =20





































=20
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   =20

11. Appendices=20

11.1. Appendix A: Explicit Congestion Notification=20

   This Appendix provides a brief summary of Explicit Congestion=20
   Notification (ECN).=20

   [RFC3168] specifies the incorporation of ECN to TCP and IP, including=20
   ECN's use of two bits in the IP header. It specifies a method for=20
   indicating incipient congestion to end-hosts (e.g. as in RED, Random=20
   Early Detection), where the notification is through ECN marking=20
   packets rather than dropping them.  =20

   ECN uses two bits in the IP header of both IPv4 and IPv6 packets:=20

            0     1     2     3     4     5     6     7=20
         +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+=20
         |          DS FIELD, DSCP           | ECN FIELD |=20
         +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+=20
   =20
           DSCP: differentiated services codepoint=20
           ECN:  Explicit Congestion Notification=20
   =20
   Figure A.1: The Differentiated Services and ECN Fields in IP.=20

   The two bits of the ECN field have four ECN codepoints, '00' to '11':=20
         +-----+-----+=20
         | ECN FIELD |=20
         +-----+-----+=20
           ECT   CE         =20
            0     0         Not-ECT=20
            0     1         ECT(1)=20
            1     0         ECT(0)=20
            1     1         CE=20
   =20
   Figure A.2: The ECN Field in IP.=20

   The not-ECT codepoint '00' indicates a packet that is not using ECN.=20

   The CE codepoint '11' is set by a router to indicate congestion to=20
   the end hosts. The term 'CE packet' denotes a packet that has the CE=20
   codepoint set.  =20

   The ECN-Capable Transport (ECT) codepoints '10' and '01' (ECT(0) and=20
   ECT(1) respectively) are set by the data sender to indicate that the=20
=20
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   end-points of the transport protocol are ECN-capable. Routers treat=20
   the ECT(0) and ECT(1) codepoints as equivalent. Senders are free to=20
   use either the ECT(0) or the ECT(1) codepoint to indicate ECT, on a=20
   packet-by-packet basis. The motivation for having two codepoints (the=20
   'ECN nonce') is the desire to check two things: for the data sender=20
   to verify that network elements are not erasing the CE codepoint; and=20
   for the data sender to verify that data receivers are properly=20
   reporting to the sender the receipt of packets with the CE codepoint=20
   set.=20

   ECN requires support from the transport protocol, in addition to the=20
   functionality given by the ECN field in the IP packet header.=20
   [RFC3168] addresses the addition of ECN Capability to TCP, specifying=20
   three new pieces of functionality: negotiation between the endpoints=20
   during connection setup to determine if they are both ECN-capable; an=20
   ECN-Echo (ECE) flag in the TCP header so that the data receiver can=20
   inform the data sender when a CE packet has been received; and a=20
   Congestion Window Reduced (CWR) flag in the TCP header so that the=20
   data sender can inform the data receiver that the congestion window=20
   has been reduced.=20

   The transport layer (e.g.. TCP) must respond, in terms of congestion=20
   control, to a *single* CE packet as it would to a packet drop. =20

   The advantage of setting the CE codepoint as an indication of=20
   congestion, instead of relying on packet drops, is that it allows the=20
   receiver(s) to receive the packet, thus avoiding the potential for=20
   excessive delays due to retransmissions after packet losses. =20

   =20

11.2. Appendix B: What is distributed measurement-based admission=20
   control? =20

   This Appendix briefly explains what distributed measurement-based=20
   admission control is [Breslau99]. =20

   Traditional admission control algorithms for 'hard' real-time=20
   services (those providing a firm delay bound for example) guarantee=20
   QoS by using 'worst case analysis'. Each time a flow is admitted its=20
   traffic parameters are examined and the network re-calculates the=20
   remaining resources. When the network gets a new request it therefore=20
   knows for certain whether the prospective flow, with its particular=20
   parameters, should be admitted. However, parameter-based admission=20
   control algorithms result in under-utilisation when the traffic is=20
   bursty. Therefore 'soft' real time services - like Controlled Load -=20
   can use a more relaxed admission control algorithm. =20
=20
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   This insight suggests measurement-based admission control (MBAC). The=20
   aim of MBAC is to provide a statistical service guarantee. The=20
   classic scenario for MBAC is where each router participates in hop-
   by-hop admission control, characterising existing traffic locally=20
   through measurements (instead of keeping an accurate track of traffic=20
   as it is admitted), in order to determine the current value of some=20
   parameter e.g. load. Note that for scalability the measurement is of=20
   the aggregate of the flows in the local system. The measured=20
   parameter(s) is then compared to the requirements of the prospective=20
   flow to see whether it should be admitted. =20

   MBAC may also be performed centrally for a network, it which case it=20
   uses centralised measurements by a bandwidth broker. =20

   We use distributed MBAC. "Distributed" means that the measurement is=20
   accumulated for the 'whole-path' using in-band signalling. In our=20
   case, this means that the measurement of existing traffic is for the=20
   same pair of ingress and egress gateways as the prospective=20
   microflow. =20

   In fact our mechanism can be said to be distributed in three ways:=20
   all routers on the ingress-egress path affect the Congestion-Level-
   Estimate; the admission control decision is made just once on behalf=20
   of all the routers on the path across the CL-region; and the ingress=20
   and egress gateways cooperate to perform MBAC. =20

   =20

11.3. Appendix C: Calculating the Exponentially weighted moving average=20
   (EWMA)=20

   At the egress gateway, for every CL packet arrival:=20

   [EWMA-total-bits]n+1  =3D  (w * bits-in-packet)  +  ((1-w) * [EWMA-=20
   total-bits]n )=20

   [EWMA-M-bits]n+1  =3D  (B * w * bits-in-packet)  +  ((1-w) * [EWMA-M-
   bits]n )=20

   Then, per new flow arrival:=20

   [Congestion-Level-Estimate]n+1  =3D  [EWMA-M-bits]n+1  /  [EWMA-total-
   bits]n+1 =20

   =20

   where=20
=20
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   EWMA-total-bits is the total number of bits in CL packets, calculated=20
   as an exponentially weighted moving average (EWMA)=20

   EWMA-M-bits is the total number of bits in CL packets that are=20
   Admission Marked or Pre-emption Marked, again calculated as an EWMA. =20

   B is either 0 or 1:=20

     B =3D 0 if the CL packet is not admission marked =20

     B =3D 1 if the CL packet is admission marked=20

   w is the exponential weighting factor. =20

   =20
   Varying the value of the weight trades off between the smoothness and=20
   responsiveness of the Congestion-Level-Estimate. However, in general=20
   both can be achieved, given our original assumption of many CL=20
   microflows and remembering that the EWMA is calculated on the basis=20
   of aggregate traffic between the ingress and egress gateways.  =20
   There will be a threshold inter-arrival time between packets of the=20
   same aggregate below which the egress will consider the estimate of=20
   the Congestion-Level-Estimate as too stale, and it will then trigger=20
   generation of probes by the ingress. =20
   =20
   The first two per-packet algorithms can be simplified, if their only=20
   use will be where the result of one is divided by the result of the=20
   other in the third, per-flow algorithm.=20
   =20
   [EWMA-total-bits]'n+1  =3D  bits-in-packet  +  (w' * [EWMA- total-
   bits]n )=20

   [EWMA-AM-bits]'n+1  =3D  (B * bits-in-packet)  +  (w' * [EWMA-AM-bits]=
n=20
   )=20

   where w' =3D (1-w)/w.=20

   If w' is arranged to be a power of 2, these per packet algorithms can=20
   be implemented solely with a shift and an add.=20

   =20



=20
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   There are alternative possibilities for smoothing out the congestion-
   level-estimate. For example [TEWMA] deals better with the issue of=20
   stale information when the traffic rate for =20

    =20
   =20

12. References=20

   A later version will distinguish normative and informative=20
   references.=20

   [AGGRE-TE]    Francois Le Faucheur, Michael Dibiasio, Bruce Davie,=20
                 Michael Davenport, Chris Christou, Jerry Ash, Bur=20
                 Goode, 'Aggregation of RSVP Reservations over MPLS=20
                 TE/DS-TE Tunnels', draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-dste-03 (work=20
                 in progress), June 2006 =20

   [ANSI.MLPP.Spec] American National Standards Institute,=20
                 "Telecommunications- Integrated Services Digital=20
                 Network (ISDN) - Multi-Level Precedence and Pre-
                 emption (MLPP) Service Capability", ANSI T1.619-1992=20
                 (R1999), 1992.=20

   [ANSI.MLPP.Supplement] American National Standards Institute, "MLPP=20
                 Service Domain Cause Value Changes", ANSI ANSI=20
                 T1.619a-1994 (R1999), 1990.=20

   [AVQ]         S. Kunniyur and R. Srikant "Analysis and Design of an=20
                 Adaptive Virtual Queue (AVQ) Algorithm for Active=20
                 Queue Management", In: Proc. ACM SIGCOMM'01, Computer=20
                 Communication Review 31 (4) (October, 2001).=20

   [Breslau99]   L. Breslau, S. Jamin, S. Shenker "Measurement-based=20
                 admission control: what is the research agenda?", In:=20
                 Proc. Int'l Workshop on Quality of Service 1999.=20

   [Breslau00]   L. Breslau, E. Knightly, S. Shenker, I. Stoica, H.=20
                 Zhang "Endpoint Admission Control: Architectural=20
                 Issues and Performance", In: ACM SIGCOMM 2000 =20

   [Briscoe]     Bob Briscoe and Steve Rudkin, "Commercial Models for=20
                 IP Quality of Service Interconnect", BT Technology=20
                 Journal, Vol 23 No 2, April 2005.=20


=20
=20
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   [DCAC]        Richard J. Gibbens and Frank P. Kelly "Distributed=20
                 connection acceptance control for a connectionless=20
                 network", In: Proc. International Teletraffic Congress=20
                 (ITC16), Edinburgh, pp. 941=97952 (1999).=20

   [ECN-MPLS]    Bruce Davie, Bob Briscoe, June Tay, "Explicit=20
                 Congestion Marking in MPLS",                    draft-
                 davie-ecn-mpls-00.txt (work in progress), June 2006=20

   [EMERG-RQTS]  Carlberg, K. and R. Atkinson, "General Requirements=20
                 for Emergency Telecommunication Service (ETS)", RFC=20
                 3689, February 2004.=20

   [EMERG-TEL]   Carlberg, K. and R. Atkinson, "IP Telephony=20
                 Requirements for Emergency Telecommunication Service=20
                 (ETS)", RFC 3690, February 2004.=20

   [Floyd]       S. Floyd, 'Specifying Alternate Semantics for the=20
                 Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) Field', draft-
                 floyd-ecn-alternates-02.txt (work in progress), August=20
                 2005 =20

   [GSPa]        Karsten (Ed.), Martin "GSP/ECN Technology &=20
                 Experiments", Deliverable: 15.3 PtIII, M3I Eu Vth=20
                 Framework Project IST-1999-11429, URL:=20
                 http://www.m3i.org/ (February, 2002) (superseded by=20
                 [GSP-TR])=20

   [GSP-TR]      Martin Karsten and Jens Schmitt, "Admission Control=20
                 Based on Packet Marking and Feedback Signalling =AD--=20
                 Mechanisms, Implementation and Experiments", TU-
                 Darmstadt Technical Report TR-KOM-2002-03, URL:=20
                 http://www.kom.e-technik.tu-
                 darmstadt.de/publications/abstracts/KS02-5.html (May,=20
                 2002) =20

   [ITU.MLPP.1990] International Telecommunications Union, "Multilevel=20
                 Precedence and Pre-emption Service (MLPP)", ITU-T=20
                 Recommendation I.255.3, 1990. =20

   [Johnson]     DM Johnson, 'QoS control versus generous=20
                 dimensioning', BT Technology Journal, Vol 23 No 2,=20
                 April 2005=20




=20
=20
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   [LoadBalancing-a] Ruediger Martin, Michael Menth, and Michael=20
                 Hemmkeppler: "Accuracy and Dynamics of Hash-Based Load=20
                 Balancing Algorithms for Multipath Internet Routing",=20
                 IEEE Broadnets, San Jose, CA, USA, October 2006=20
                 http://www3.informatik.uni-
                 wuerzburg.de/~menth/Publications/Menth06p.pdf=20

   [LoadBalancing-b] Ruediger Martin, Michael Menth, and Michael=20
                 Hemmkeppler: "Accuracy and Dynamics of Multi-Stage=20
                 Load Balancing for Multipath Internet Routing",=20
                 currently under submission http://www3.informatik.uni-
                 wuerzburg.de/~menth/Publications/Menth07-Sub-6.pdf =20

   [Low]         S. Low, L. Andrew, B. Wydrowski, 'Understanding XCP:=20
                 equilibrium and fairness', IEEE InfoCom 2005=20

   [NAC-a]       Michael Menth: "Efficient Admission Control and=20
                 Routing in Resilient Communication Networks", PhD=20
                 thesis, July 2004, http://opus.bibliothek.uni-
                 wuerzburg.de/opus/volltexte/2004/994/pdf/Menth04.pdf=20

   [NAC-b]       Michael Menth, Stefan Kopf, Joachim Charzinski, and=20
                 Karl Schrodi: "Resilient Network Admission Control",=20
                 currently under submission.=20
                 http://www3.informatik.uni-
                 wuerzburg.de/~menth/Publications/Menth07-Sub-3.pdf =20

   [PCN]         B. Briscoe, P. Eardley, D. Songhurst, F. Le Faucheur,=20
                 A. Charny, V. Liatsos, S. Dudley, J. Babiarz, K. Chan,=20
                 G. Karagiannis, A. Bader, L. Westberg. 'Pre-Congestion=20
                 Notification marking', draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-phb-02=20
                 (work in progress), June 2006.=20

   [Re-ECN]      Bob Briscoe, Arnaud Jacquet, Alessandro Salvatori,=20
                 'Re-ECN: Adding Accountability for Causing Congestion=20
                 to TCP/IP', draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-tcp-01 (work in=20
                 progress), March 2006.=20

   [Re-feedback] Bob Briscoe, Arnaud Jacquet, Carla Di Cairano-
                 Gilfedder, Andrea Soppera, 'Re-feedback for Policing=20
                 Congestion Response in an Inter-network', ACM SIGCOMM=20
                 2005, August 2005.=20

   [Re-PCN]      B. Briscoe, 'Emulating Border Flow Policing using Re-
                 ECN on Bulk Data', draft-briscoe-tsvwg-re-ecn-border-
                 cheat-00 (work in progress), February 2006.=20

=20
=20
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   [Reid]        ABD Reid, 'Economics and scalability of QoS=20
                 solutions', BT Technology Journal, Vol 23 No 2, April=20
                 2005=20

   [RFC2211]     J. Wroclawski, Specification of the Controlled-Load=20
                 Network Element Service, September 1997=20

   [RFC2309]     Braden, B., et al., "Recommendations on Queue=20
                 Management and Congestion Avoidance in the Internet",=20
                 RFC 2309, April 1998.=20

   [RFC2474]     Nichols, K., Blake, S., Baker, F. and D. Black,=20
                 "Definition of the Differentiated Services Field (DS=20
                 Field) in the IPv4 and IPv6 Headers", RFC 2474,=20
                 December 1998=20

   [RFC2475]     Blake, S., Black, D., Carlson, M., Davies, E., Wang,=20
                 Z. and W. Weiss, 'A framework for Differentiated=20
                 Services', RFC 2475, December 1998.=20

   [RFC2597]     Heinanen, J., Baker, F., Weiss, W. and J. Wrocklawski,=20
                 "Assured Forwarding PHB Group", RFC 2597, June 1999.=20

   [RFC2998]     Bernet, Y., Yavatkar, R., Ford, P., Baker, F., Zhang,=20
                 L., Speer, M., Braden, R., Davie, B., Wroclawski, J.=20
                 and E. Felstaine, "A Framework for Integrated Services=20
                 Operation Over DiffServ Networks", RFC 2998, November=20
                 2000.=20

   [RFC3168]     Ramakrishnan, K., Floyd, S. and D. Black "The Addition=20
                 of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP", RFC=20
                 3168, September 2001.=20

   [RFC3246]     B. Davie, A. Charny, J.C.R. Bennet, K. Benson, J.Y. Le=20
                 Boudec, W. Courtney, S. Davari, V. Firoiu, D.=20
                 Stiliadis, 'An Expedited Forwarding PHB (Per-Hop=20
                 Behavior)', RFC 3246, March 2002.=20

   [RFC3270]     Le Faucheur, F., Wu, L., Davie, B., Davari, S.,=20
                 Vaananen, P., Krishnan, R., Cheval, P., and J.=20
                 Heinanen, "Multi- Protocol Label Switching (MPLS)=20
                 Support of Differentiated Services", RFC 3270, May=20
                 2002.=20

   [RFC4542]     F. Baker & J. Polk, "Implementing an Emergency=20
                 Telecommunications Service for Real Time Services in=20
                 the Internet Protocol Suite", RFC 4542, May 2006.=20
=20
=20
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   [RMD]         Attila Bader, Lars Westberg, Georgios Karagiannis,=20
                 Cornelia Kappler, Tom Phelan, 'RMD-QOSM - The Resource=20
                 Management in DiffServ QoS model', draft-ietf-nsis-
                 rmd-03 Work in Progress, June 2005.=20

   [RSVP-PCN]    Francois Le Faucheur, Anna Charny, Bob Briscoe, Philip=20
                 Eardley, Joe Barbiaz, Kwok-Ho Chan, 'RSVP Extensions=20
                 for Admission Control over DiffServ using Pre-
                 Congestion Notification (PCN)', draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-
                 ecn-01 (work in progress), June 2006.=20

   [RSVP-PREEMPTION] Herzog, S., "Signaled Preemption Priority Policy=20
                 Element", RFC 3181, October 2001. =20

   [RSVP-EMERGENCY] Le Faucheur et al., RSVP Extensions for Emergency=20
                 Services, draft-lefaucheur-emergency-rsvp-02.txt=20

   [RTECN]       Babiarz, J., Chan, K. and V. Firoiu, 'Congestion=20
                 Notification Process for Real-Time Traffic', draft-
                 babiarz-tsvwg-rtecn-04 Work in Progress, July 2005.=20

   [RTECN-usage] Alexander, C., Ed., Babiarz, J. and J. Matthews,=20
                 'Admission Control Use Case for Real-time ECN', draft-
                 alexander-rtecn-admission-control-use-case-00, Work in=20
                 Progress, February 2005.=20

   [Songhurst]   David J. Songhurst, Philip Eardley, Bob Briscoe, Carla=20
                 Di Cairano Gilfedder and June Tay, 'Guaranteed QoS=20
                 Synthesis for Admission Control with Shared Capacity',=20
                 BT Technical Report TR-CXR9-2006-001, Feb 2006,=20
                 http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/B.Briscoe/projects/ipe2e
                 qos/gqs/papers/GQS_shared_tr.pdf =20

   [vq]          Costas Courcoubetis and Richard Weber "Buffer Overflow=20
                 Asymptotics for a Switch Handling Many Traffic=20
                 Sources" In: Journal Applied Probability 33 pp. 886--
                 903 (1996).=20

   =20







=20
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Authors' Addresses=20

   Bob Briscoe=20
   BT Research=20
   B54/77, Sirius House=20
   Adastral Park=20
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   400, Avenue de Roumanille =20
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   =20
   Anna Charny =20
   Cisco Systems =20
   300 Apollo Drive =20
   Chelmsford, MA 01824 =20
   USA =20
   Email: acharny@cisco.com =20
   =20
=20
=20
Briscoe                Expires April 25, 2007                [Page 61]=20
=0C
Internet-Draft        Deployment Model using PCN          October 2006=20
   =20

   Kwok Ho Chan =20
   Nortel Networks =20
   600 Technology Park Drive =20
   Billerica, MA  01821 =20
   USA =20
   Email: khchan@nortel.com =20
       =20

   Jozef Z. Babiarz =20
   Nortel Networks =20
   3500 Carling Avenue =20
   Ottawa, Ont  K2H 8E9 =20
   Canada =20
   Email: babiarz@nortel.com=20
   =20
   Stephen Dudley=20
   Nortel Networks=20
   4001 E. Chapel Hill Nelson Highway=20
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   Email: smdudley@nortel.com=20
   =20
   Georgios Karagiannis=20
   University of Twente=20
   P.O. BOX 217=20
   7500 AE Enschede, =20
   The Netherlands=20
   EMail: g.karagiannis@ewi.utwente.nl =20
                    =20
   Attila B=E1der =20
   attila.bader@ericsson.com=20
   =20
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   Sweden=20
   EMail: Lars.Westberg@ericsson.com=20
   =20
   =20
   =20
   =20
   =20




=20
=20
Briscoe                Expires April 25, 2007                [Page 62]=20
=0C
Internet-Draft        Deployment Model using PCN          October 2006=20
   =20

Intellectual Property Statement=20

   The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any=20
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Briscoe                Expires April 25, 2007                [Page 63]=20
=0C

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Subject: RE: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt submission
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Hi Michael,

I do agree with your observation that if smooth traffic consistently
exceeds the admission threshold, then all traffic soon starts getting
admission-marked, and hence further admission is prevented.  Strictly
speaking that does not contradict the statement that in that case PCN
fails to prevent admission *prior* to reaching the admission threshold.
But indeed, as admission control is expected to be substantially below
the link speed (or real queue service rate), that is not in practice a
serious problem, in my opinion.   Perhaps the next version of the draft
could elaborate on this a bit more.=20

Anna=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:05 AM
To: Kwok-Ho Chan
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
submission

Hi all,

I browsed through the drafts and have some comments on Section 5
"Aggregate Traffic Characteristics" which says:

"However, too little [traffic] variation can also be a problem [for the
PCN marking].  For example, if all the sources are constant bit rate and
are synchronised, then the total traffic level at a router's interface
could be (almost) at its capacity and all packets could still be
serviced instantly.  However, admitting one more flow could tip the
router over its capacity, so its queue grew indefinitely until it had to
drop packets.  "Some" traffic variation means that as the traffic level
nears the capacity limit, some packets are PCN-marked but there's still
enough capacity to cope with the traffic fluctuations.  Hence new flows
can be blocked and packets are never dropped."

With PCN, all packets are "stop admission marked" if the currently
observed rate exceeds the configured "admissible interface rate". The
configured "admissible interface rate" is usually substantially smaller
than the physical link bandwidth.

In the context of RED marking, only those packets are marked that exceed
a certain threshold of the physical queue which is served at link rate.=20
If the traffic exceeds the link rate preliminarily on a small time
scale, a queue builds up and some of the queued packets are marked. This
can also happen if the aggregate rate is low, but if bursts arrive. In
contrast, if the rate of the aggregate reaches almost the link
bandwidth, but if it is sufficiently smooth, no queue builds up. Thus,
the problem with RED-like marking is that it can give EARLY warning only
if the current traffic rate is below the link rate but exceeds it due to
short term variations.

 From my perspective, PCN marking does not have this problem because it
reacts if the sent rate exceeds the configured rate and that can be well
observed on a larger time scale than packet level, short term variations
are not required to this end. Therefore, PCN marking leads to more
stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning
if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a
medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done
also for extremely smooth CBR traffic.

Best wishes,

    Michael

Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
> Hi:
> Please notice I have submitted an update to the Problem-Statement
draft.
> Please see the link to the draft at:
>  =20
> http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.tx
> t
>
> There were couple of minor cleanups.
> I have also added a new section just to set up the discussion of=20
> trust, with the trust assumptions and security still in the=20
> assumptions and security sections (as they were in -00).
> Thanks!
> -- Kwok --
>
>
> At 03:04 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
>> This is the submission of an update (version 01) to an individual
draft.
>>
>> Title:         Pre-Congestion Notification Problem Statement
>>
>> Filename:  draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    DiffServ mechanisms have been developed to support Quality of
Service
>>    (QoS).  However, the level of assurance that can be provided with
>>    DiffServ without substantial over-provisioning is limited.  Pre-
>>    Congestion Notification (PCN) investigates the use of per-flow
>>    admission control to provide the required service guarantees for
the
>>    admitted traffic.  While admission control will protect the QoS
under
>>    normal operating conditions, an additional flow pre-emption
mechanism
>>    is necessary in the times of heavy congestion (e.g. caused by
route
>>    changes due to link or node failure).
>>
>>    This document provides a problem statement on the addition of flow
>>    admission control and flow pre-emption functionality to a DiffServ
>>    network, in particular for the support of real time services such
as
>>    voice and video.
>>
>>
>> If there is any question or problem related to this submission,=20
>> please contact:
>> Kwok Ho Chan
>> E-Mail:  khchan@nortel.com
>> Phone:  978-288-8175
>>
>> The text version of the draft is attached.
>>
>> Thank You!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

--
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science Am Hubland,
D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn

_______________________________________________
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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 26 09:57:23 2006
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Subject: RE: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt submission
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From: "Jozef Babiarz" <babiarz@nortel.com>
To: <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>, "Kwok-Ho Chan" <khchan@nortel.com>
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Michael, good observations.

Not sure if I understand your last point
" Therefore, PCN marking leads to more=20
stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning=20
if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a=20
medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done=20
also for extremely smooth CBR traffic."

But at least in my view stop admission marking needs to respond frailly
quickly to increased traffic load to provide protection against flash
calling events (may users making call at the same time).  In my view,
reaction to stop admission marking should be proportional to traffic
that is in excess of "admissible interface rate", that is if traffic is
above by a small amount, it is OK for stop admissible marking to take
medium time scale. However, if traffic exceeds the admissible rate by
large amount then stop marking needs to be quick. =20

Regards, Joe
QoS & Network Architecture
Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
Email: babiarz@nortel.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:05 AM
To: Chan, Kwok-Ho (BL60:470)
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
submission

Hi all,

I browsed through the drafts and have some comments on Section 5=20
"Aggregate Traffic Characteristics" which says:

"However, too little [traffic] variation can also be a problem [for the=20
PCN marking]. For example, if all the sources are constant bit rate and=20
are synchronised, then the total traffic level at a router's interface=20
could be (almost) at its capacity and all packets could still be=20
serviced instantly.  However, admitting one more flow could tip the=20
router over its capacity, so its queue grew indefinitely until it had to

drop packets.  "Some" traffic variation means that as the traffic level=20
nears the capacity limit, some packets are PCN-marked but there's still=20
enough capacity to cope with the traffic fluctuations.  Hence new flows=20
can be blocked and packets are never dropped."

With PCN, all packets are "stop admission marked" if the currently=20
observed rate exceeds the configured "admissible interface rate". The=20
configured "admissible interface rate" is usually substantially smaller=20
than the physical link bandwidth.

In the context of RED marking, only those packets are marked that exceed

a certain threshold of the physical queue which is served at link rate.=20
If the traffic exceeds the link rate preliminarily on a small time=20
scale, a queue builds up and some of the queued packets are marked. This

can also happen if the aggregate rate is low, but if bursts arrive. In=20
contrast, if the rate of the aggregate reaches almost the link=20
bandwidth, but if it is sufficiently smooth, no queue builds up. Thus,=20
the problem with RED-like marking is that it can give EARLY warning only

if the current traffic rate is below the link rate but exceeds it due to

short term variations.

 From my perspective, PCN marking does not have this problem because it=20
reacts if the sent rate exceeds the configured rate and that can be well

observed on a larger time scale than packet level, short term variations

are not required to this end. Therefore, PCN marking leads to more=20
stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning=20
if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a=20
medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done=20
also for extremely smooth CBR traffic.

Best wishes,

    Michael

Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
> Hi:
> Please notice I have submitted an update to the Problem-Statement
draft.
> Please see the link to the draft at:
>
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>
> There were couple of minor cleanups.
> I have also added a new section just to set up the discussion of
trust,
> with the trust assumptions and security still in the assumptions and
> security sections (as they were in -00).
> Thanks!
> -- Kwok --
>
>
> At 03:04 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
>> This is the submission of an update (version 01) to an individual
draft.
>>
>> Title:         Pre-Congestion Notification Problem Statement
>>
>> Filename:  draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    DiffServ mechanisms have been developed to support Quality of
Service
>>    (QoS).  However, the level of assurance that can be provided with
>>    DiffServ without substantial over-provisioning is limited.  Pre-
>>    Congestion Notification (PCN) investigates the use of per-flow
>>    admission control to provide the required service guarantees for
the
>>    admitted traffic.  While admission control will protect the QoS
under
>>    normal operating conditions, an additional flow pre-emption
mechanism
>>    is necessary in the times of heavy congestion (e.g. caused by
route
>>    changes due to link or node failure).
>>
>>    This document provides a problem statement on the addition of flow
>>    admission control and flow pre-emption functionality to a DiffServ
>>    network, in particular for the support of real time services such
as
>>    voice and video.
>>
>>
>> If there is any question or problem related to this submission,
>> please contact:
>> Kwok Ho Chan
>> E-Mail:  khchan@nortel.com
>> Phone:  978-288-8175
>>
>> The text version of the draft is attached.
>>
>> Thank You!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

--=20
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



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Subject: RE: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt submission
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:00:55 +0100
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Agree with your comments.

With very smooth traffic, indeed adding 'one more flow' can move the
router from marking no packets to marking all of them.=20
With bursty traffic, we see an increasing % of pkts being marked (on
average) as the traffic level is increased.=20
Hence with bursty traffic you start to get pkt marks (warnings of
potential congestion) at lower average traffic level. This behaviour is
good, as bursty traffic has a greater danger of causing some pkt
delay/drop in the real queue.=20

If traffic was always smooth, rather than use a virtual queue the router
could just measure the traffic rate (on some kind of moving average). It
would work just as well. However, if the traffic is bursty, using a
virtual queue is better. Because it gives a better measure (than average
rate) of what might happen on the real queue 'soon' (ie if the traffic
increased further).=20

Effectively the virtual queue gives you another parameter to play with -
as well as the average rate, the virtual queue threshold (ie length at
which go from no marking to marking). This allows you to control how
sensitive you are to bursty traffic.=20

Thanks
Phil Eardley=20
Ben Strulo

-----Original Message-----
From: Anna Charny (acharny) [mailto:acharny@cisco.com]=20
Sent: 25 October 2006 22:37
To: menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de; Kwok-Ho Chan
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
submission

Hi Michael,

I do agree with your observation that if smooth traffic consistently
exceeds the admission threshold, then all traffic soon starts getting
admission-marked, and hence further admission is prevented.  Strictly
speaking that does not contradict the statement that in that case PCN
fails to prevent admission *prior* to reaching the admission threshold.
But indeed, as admission control is expected to be substantially below
the link speed (or real queue service rate), that is not in practice a
serious problem, in my opinion.   Perhaps the next version of the draft
could elaborate on this a bit more.=20

Anna=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:05 AM
To: Kwok-Ho Chan
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
submission

Hi all,

I browsed through the drafts and have some comments on Section 5
"Aggregate Traffic Characteristics" which says:

"However, too little [traffic] variation can also be a problem [for the
PCN marking].  For example, if all the sources are constant bit rate and
are synchronised, then the total traffic level at a router's interface
could be (almost) at its capacity and all packets could still be
serviced instantly.  However, admitting one more flow could tip the
router over its capacity, so its queue grew indefinitely until it had to
drop packets.  "Some" traffic variation means that as the traffic level
nears the capacity limit, some packets are PCN-marked but there's still
enough capacity to cope with the traffic fluctuations.  Hence new flows
can be blocked and packets are never dropped."

With PCN, all packets are "stop admission marked" if the currently
observed rate exceeds the configured "admissible interface rate". The
configured "admissible interface rate" is usually substantially smaller
than the physical link bandwidth.

In the context of RED marking, only those packets are marked that exceed
a certain threshold of the physical queue which is served at link rate.=20
If the traffic exceeds the link rate preliminarily on a small time
scale, a queue builds up and some of the queued packets are marked. This
can also happen if the aggregate rate is low, but if bursts arrive. In
contrast, if the rate of the aggregate reaches almost the link
bandwidth, but if it is sufficiently smooth, no queue builds up. Thus,
the problem with RED-like marking is that it can give EARLY warning only
if the current traffic rate is below the link rate but exceeds it due to
short term variations.

 From my perspective, PCN marking does not have this problem because it
reacts if the sent rate exceeds the configured rate and that can be well
observed on a larger time scale than packet level, short term variations
are not required to this end. Therefore, PCN marking leads to more
stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning
if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a
medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done
also for extremely smooth CBR traffic.

Best wishes,

    Michael

Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
> Hi:
> Please notice I have submitted an update to the Problem-Statement
draft.
> Please see the link to the draft at:
>  =20
> http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.tx
> t
>
> There were couple of minor cleanups.
> I have also added a new section just to set up the discussion of=20
> trust, with the trust assumptions and security still in the=20
> assumptions and security sections (as they were in -00).
> Thanks!
> -- Kwok --
>
>
> At 03:04 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
>> This is the submission of an update (version 01) to an individual
draft.
>>
>> Title:         Pre-Congestion Notification Problem Statement
>>
>> Filename:  draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    DiffServ mechanisms have been developed to support Quality of
Service
>>    (QoS).  However, the level of assurance that can be provided with
>>    DiffServ without substantial over-provisioning is limited.  Pre-
>>    Congestion Notification (PCN) investigates the use of per-flow
>>    admission control to provide the required service guarantees for
the
>>    admitted traffic.  While admission control will protect the QoS
under
>>    normal operating conditions, an additional flow pre-emption
mechanism
>>    is necessary in the times of heavy congestion (e.g. caused by
route
>>    changes due to link or node failure).
>>
>>    This document provides a problem statement on the addition of flow
>>    admission control and flow pre-emption functionality to a DiffServ
>>    network, in particular for the support of real time services such
as
>>    voice and video.
>>
>>
>> If there is any question or problem related to this submission,=20
>> please contact:
>> Kwok Ho Chan
>> E-Mail:  khchan@nortel.com
>> Phone:  978-288-8175
>>
>> The text version of the draft is attached.
>>
>> Thank You!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

--
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science Am Hubland,
D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn

_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

_______________________________________________
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Hi:
I have updated http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/ with the latest documents to be
discussed during our PCN BoF @ 67th IETF in San Diego,
on Monday November 6, 2006, 9 - 11:30 AM in Grande Ballroom C:

BoF Agenda (ver 00):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/PCN_BoF_Agenda_00.txt
Proposed PCN Charter (ver 01):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/PCN_draft_charter_v01.txt
PCN Problem Statement (ver 01):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
PCN Marking (ver 03):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-phb-03.txt
CL Architecture (ver 04):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-briscoe-tsvwg-cl-architecture-04.txt
SIP Controlled Admission and Preemption (ver 00):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-babiarz-pcn-sip-cap-00.txt
Single Marking for Admission and Preemption (ver 00):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-charny-pcn-single-marking-00.txt
PCN Simulation (ver 00):
    http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-zhang-pcn-performance-evaluation-00.txt

Please note that this is a follow up to Anna's EMail on Tues Oct 24, 2006,
just putting all the relevant information at your finger tip for easy access.

If you are attending the 67th IETF @ San Diego, please come to the BoF
and give us your support.  Indication of your support via EMail also welcomed.
Thanks!
-- Kwok --



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From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
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Dear Phil,

philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
> Agree with your comments.
>
> With very smooth traffic, indeed adding 'one more flow' can move the
> router from marking no packets to marking all of them. 
> With bursty traffic, we see an increasing % of pkts being marked (on
> average) as the traffic level is increased. 
> Hence with bursty traffic you start to get pkt marks (warnings of
> potential congestion) at lower average traffic level. This behaviour is
> good, as bursty traffic has a greater danger of causing some pkt
> delay/drop in the real queue. 
>
> If traffic was always smooth, rather than use a virtual queue the router
> could just measure the traffic rate (on some kind of moving average). It
> would work just as well. However, if the traffic is bursty, using a
> virtual queue is better. Because it gives a better measure (than average
> rate) of what might happen on the real queue 'soon' (ie if the traffic
> increased further). 
>
> Effectively the virtual queue gives you another parameter to play with -
> as well as the average rate, the virtual queue threshold (ie length at
> which go from no marking to marking). This allows you to control how
> sensitive you are to bursty traffic. 
>   
I definitely support the virtual queue for excess-traffic marking. 
However, for the stop-admission marking I am still undecided what is 
best since we want to have a clear and stable answer whether more 
traffic can be admitted. I think this might an issue for further research.

Best wishes,

    Michael

> Thanks
> Phil Eardley 
> Ben Strulo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anna Charny (acharny) [mailto:acharny@cisco.com] 
> Sent: 25 October 2006 22:37
> To: menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de; Kwok-Ho Chan
> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
> submission
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> I do agree with your observation that if smooth traffic consistently
> exceeds the admission threshold, then all traffic soon starts getting
> admission-marked, and hence further admission is prevented.  Strictly
> speaking that does not contradict the statement that in that case PCN
> fails to prevent admission *prior* to reaching the admission threshold.
> But indeed, as admission control is expected to be substantially below
> the link speed (or real queue service rate), that is not in practice a
> serious problem, in my opinion.   Perhaps the next version of the draft
> could elaborate on this a bit more. 
>
> Anna 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:05 AM
> To: Kwok-Ho Chan
> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
> submission
>
> Hi all,
>
> I browsed through the drafts and have some comments on Section 5
> "Aggregate Traffic Characteristics" which says:
>
> "However, too little [traffic] variation can also be a problem [for the
> PCN marking].  For example, if all the sources are constant bit rate and
> are synchronised, then the total traffic level at a router's interface
> could be (almost) at its capacity and all packets could still be
> serviced instantly.  However, admitting one more flow could tip the
> router over its capacity, so its queue grew indefinitely until it had to
> drop packets.  "Some" traffic variation means that as the traffic level
> nears the capacity limit, some packets are PCN-marked but there's still
> enough capacity to cope with the traffic fluctuations.  Hence new flows
> can be blocked and packets are never dropped."
>
> With PCN, all packets are "stop admission marked" if the currently
> observed rate exceeds the configured "admissible interface rate". The
> configured "admissible interface rate" is usually substantially smaller
> than the physical link bandwidth.
>
> In the context of RED marking, only those packets are marked that exceed
> a certain threshold of the physical queue which is served at link rate. 
> If the traffic exceeds the link rate preliminarily on a small time
> scale, a queue builds up and some of the queued packets are marked. This
> can also happen if the aggregate rate is low, but if bursts arrive. In
> contrast, if the rate of the aggregate reaches almost the link
> bandwidth, but if it is sufficiently smooth, no queue builds up. Thus,
> the problem with RED-like marking is that it can give EARLY warning only
> if the current traffic rate is below the link rate but exceeds it due to
> short term variations.
>
>  From my perspective, PCN marking does not have this problem because it
> reacts if the sent rate exceeds the configured rate and that can be well
> observed on a larger time scale than packet level, short term variations
> are not required to this end. Therefore, PCN marking leads to more
> stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning
> if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a
> medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done
> also for extremely smooth CBR traffic.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>     Michael
>
> Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
>   
>> Hi:
>> Please notice I have submitted an update to the Problem-Statement
>>     
> draft.
>   
>> Please see the link to the draft at:
>>   
>> http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.tx
>> t
>>
>> There were couple of minor cleanups.
>> I have also added a new section just to set up the discussion of 
>> trust, with the trust assumptions and security still in the 
>> assumptions and security sections (as they were in -00).
>> Thanks!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>>
>> At 03:04 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
>>     
>>> This is the submission of an update (version 01) to an individual
>>>       
> draft.
>   
>>> Title:         Pre-Congestion Notification Problem Statement
>>>
>>> Filename:  draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>    DiffServ mechanisms have been developed to support Quality of
>>>       
> Service
>   
>>>    (QoS).  However, the level of assurance that can be provided with
>>>    DiffServ without substantial over-provisioning is limited.  Pre-
>>>    Congestion Notification (PCN) investigates the use of per-flow
>>>    admission control to provide the required service guarantees for
>>>       
> the
>   
>>>    admitted traffic.  While admission control will protect the QoS
>>>       
> under
>   
>>>    normal operating conditions, an additional flow pre-emption
>>>       
> mechanism
>   
>>>    is necessary in the times of heavy congestion (e.g. caused by
>>>       
> route
>   
>>>    changes due to link or node failure).
>>>
>>>    This document provides a problem statement on the addition of flow
>>>    admission control and flow pre-emption functionality to a DiffServ
>>>    network, in particular for the support of real time services such
>>>       
> as
>   
>>>    voice and video.
>>>
>>>
>>> If there is any question or problem related to this submission, 
>>> please contact:
>>> Kwok Ho Chan
>>> E-Mail:  khchan@nortel.com
>>> Phone:  978-288-8175
>>>
>>> The text version of the draft is attached.
>>>
>>> Thank You!
>>> -- Kwok --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>     
>
> --
> Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
> University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science Am Hubland,
> D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
> phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
> mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
> http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>   

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
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Dear Joe,

Jozef Babiarz wrote:
> Michael, good observations.
>
> Not sure if I understand your last point
> " Therefore, PCN marking leads to more 
> stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning 
> if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a 
> medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done 
> also for extremely smooth CBR traffic."
>
> But at least in my view stop admission marking needs to respond frailly
> quickly to increased traffic load to provide protection against flash
> calling events (may users making call at the same time).  In my view,
> reaction to stop admission marking should be proportional to traffic
> that is in excess of "admissible interface rate", that is if traffic is
> above by a small amount, it is OK for stop admissible marking to take
> medium time scale. However, if traffic exceeds the admissible rate by
> large amount then stop marking needs to be quick.  
>   
Strong traffic increases also increase moving averages of measured rates 
fairly quickly. In addition, the speed can be controlled by the memory 
of the moving average parameter. I think these are some research 
questions that need to be better understood.

Best wishes,

    Michael

> Regards, Joe
> QoS & Network Architecture
> Telephone: 613-763-6098 (ESN 393-6098)
> Email: babiarz@nortel.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:05 AM
> To: Chan, Kwok-Ho (BL60:470)
> Cc: pcn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [PCN] Re: draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
> submission
>
> Hi all,
>
> I browsed through the drafts and have some comments on Section 5 
> "Aggregate Traffic Characteristics" which says:
>
> "However, too little [traffic] variation can also be a problem [for the 
> PCN marking]. For example, if all the sources are constant bit rate and 
> are synchronised, then the total traffic level at a router's interface 
> could be (almost) at its capacity and all packets could still be 
> serviced instantly.  However, admitting one more flow could tip the 
> router over its capacity, so its queue grew indefinitely until it had to
>
> drop packets.  "Some" traffic variation means that as the traffic level 
> nears the capacity limit, some packets are PCN-marked but there's still 
> enough capacity to cope with the traffic fluctuations.  Hence new flows 
> can be blocked and packets are never dropped."
>
> With PCN, all packets are "stop admission marked" if the currently 
> observed rate exceeds the configured "admissible interface rate". The 
> configured "admissible interface rate" is usually substantially smaller 
> than the physical link bandwidth.
>
> In the context of RED marking, only those packets are marked that exceed
>
> a certain threshold of the physical queue which is served at link rate. 
> If the traffic exceeds the link rate preliminarily on a small time 
> scale, a queue builds up and some of the queued packets are marked. This
>
> can also happen if the aggregate rate is low, but if bursts arrive. In 
> contrast, if the rate of the aggregate reaches almost the link 
> bandwidth, but if it is sufficiently smooth, no queue builds up. Thus, 
> the problem with RED-like marking is that it can give EARLY warning only
>
> if the current traffic rate is below the link rate but exceeds it due to
>
> short term variations.
>
>  From my perspective, PCN marking does not have this problem because it 
> reacts if the sent rate exceeds the configured rate and that can be well
>
> observed on a larger time scale than packet level, short term variations
>
> are not required to this end. Therefore, PCN marking leads to more 
> stable results than RED marking and it does not need to give a warning 
> if the configured "admissible interface rate" is not achieved on a 
> medium time scale (~1s). Therefore, early warning can be perfectly done 
> also for extremely smooth CBR traffic.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>     Michael
>
> Kwok-Ho Chan wrote:
>   
>> Hi:
>> Please notice I have submitted an update to the Problem-Statement
>>     
> draft.
>   
>> Please see the link to the draft at:
>>
>>     
> http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>   
>> There were couple of minor cleanups.
>> I have also added a new section just to set up the discussion of
>>     
> trust,
>   
>> with the trust assumptions and security still in the assumptions and
>> security sections (as they were in -00).
>> Thanks!
>> -- Kwok --
>>
>>
>> At 03:04 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
>>     
>>> This is the submission of an update (version 01) to an individual
>>>       
> draft.
>   
>>> Title:         Pre-Congestion Notification Problem Statement
>>>
>>> Filename:  draft-chan-pcn-problem-statement-01.txt
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>    DiffServ mechanisms have been developed to support Quality of
>>>       
> Service
>   
>>>    (QoS).  However, the level of assurance that can be provided with
>>>    DiffServ without substantial over-provisioning is limited.  Pre-
>>>    Congestion Notification (PCN) investigates the use of per-flow
>>>    admission control to provide the required service guarantees for
>>>       
> the
>   
>>>    admitted traffic.  While admission control will protect the QoS
>>>       
> under
>   
>>>    normal operating conditions, an additional flow pre-emption
>>>       
> mechanism
>   
>>>    is necessary in the times of heavy congestion (e.g. caused by
>>>       
> route
>   
>>>    changes due to link or node failure).
>>>
>>>    This document provides a problem statement on the addition of flow
>>>    admission control and flow pre-emption functionality to a DiffServ
>>>    network, in particular for the support of real time services such
>>>       
> as
>   
>>>    voice and video.
>>>
>>>
>>> If there is any question or problem related to this submission,
>>> please contact:
>>> Kwok Ho Chan
>>> E-Mail:  khchan@nortel.com
>>> Phone:  978-288-8175
>>>
>>> The text version of the draft is attached.
>>>
>>> Thank You!
>>> -- Kwok --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>     
>
>   

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 31 03:07:59 2006
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From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
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Dear Anna,

I read your draft
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-charny-pcn-single-marking-00.txt

Here are my comments.

The draft heavily bases on the assumption that the preemption threshold 
is a fixed multiple of the admission threshold for all links in the 
network and Section 3.2.1 states that this restriction is not too severe.

I see this point a bit differently. Traffic engineering should try to 
avoid congestion in the failure-free case and if likely failures occur. 
Thus, links need some backup capacity. If the preemption threshold is a 
fixed multiple of the admission threshold, we get additional constraints 
for routing optimization because the backup capacity is exactly the same 
percentage on the links. This side condition makes routing optimization 
(or the layout of explicit primary and backup paths) more difficult and 
less efficient.

Despite my criticism I find the approach interesting since it saves a 
bit. However, I rather view it as a workaround for special networks 
where only one bit can be used for PCN marking. In the end, network 
efficiency is traded for a single bit.

Best wishes,

    Michael

-- 
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science
Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


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From pcn-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 31 14:48:01 2006
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Subject: RE: [PCN] Comments on draft-charny-pcn-single-marking
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Hi Michael,

Indeed you are right that if routing optimisation is done, then having
an additional constraint on it is yet another tradeoff that needs to be
considered. =20

Anna =20

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:06 AM
To: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] Comments on draft-charny-pcn-single-marking

Dear Anna,

I read your draft
http://standards.nortel.com/pcn/draft-charny-pcn-single-marking-00.txt

Here are my comments.

The draft heavily bases on the assumption that the preemption threshold
is a fixed multiple of the admission threshold for all links in the
network and Section 3.2.1 states that this restriction is not too
severe.

I see this point a bit differently. Traffic engineering should try to
avoid congestion in the failure-free case and if likely failures occur.=20
Thus, links need some backup capacity. If the preemption threshold is a
fixed multiple of the admission threshold, we get additional constraints
for routing optimization because the backup capacity is exactly the same
percentage on the links. This side condition makes routing optimization
(or the layout of explicit primary and backup paths) more difficult and
less efficient.

Despite my criticism I find the approach interesting since it saves a
bit. However, I rather view it as a workaround for special networks
where only one bit can be used for PCN marking. In the end, network
efficiency is traded for a single bit.

Best wishes,

    Michael

--
Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor
University of Wuerzburg, Institute of Computer Science Am Hubland,
D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
phone: (+49)-931/888-6644, fax: (+49)-931/888-6632
mailto:menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de
http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn


_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn



