
From bob.briscoe@bt.com  Mon Aug  1 10:42:30 2011
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To: BRADNER Scott <sob@harvard.edu>
From: Bob Briscoe <bob.briscoe@bt.com>
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Cc: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>, PCN IETF list <pcn@ietf.org>
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Scott,

We've posted draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07 so it's now ready for 
WGLC when you are.

Cheers



Bob


>From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>To: <toby@moncaster.com>
>CC: <menth@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>, <toby@moncaster.com>,
>         <bob.briscoe@bt.com>
>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt has been 
>successfully submitted by Toby Moncaster and posted to the IETF repository.
>
>Filename:       draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding
>Revision:       07
>Title:          Encoding 3 PCN-States in the IP header using a single DSCP
>Creation date:  2011-07-30
>WG ID:          pcn
>Number of pages: 23
>
>Abstract:
>    The objective of Pre-Congestion Notification (PCN) is to protect the
>    quality of service (QoS) of inelastic flows within a Diffserv domain.
>    The overall rate of the PCN-traffic is metered on every link in the
>    PCN domain, and PCN-packets are appropriately marked when certain
>    configured rates are exceeded.  Egress nodes pass information about
>    these PCN-marks to decision points which then decide whether to admit
>    or block new flow requests or to terminate some already-admitted
>    flows during serious pre-congestion.
>
>    This document specifies how PCN-marks are to be encoded into the IP
>    header by re-using the Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN)
>    codepoints within a PCN-domain.  This encoding provides for up to
>    three different PCN marking states using a single DSCP: not-marked
>    (NM), threshold-marked (ThM) and excess-traffic-marked (ETM).  Hence,
>    it is called the 3-in-1 PCN encoding.  This document obsoletes
>    RFC5696.
>
> 
>
>
>
>The IETF Secretariat

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design 


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Here are some small comments - the doc looks very good and is ready for IES=
G i think

S1

<<   The baseline encoding defined in [RFC5696<http://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc5696>] described how two PCN>>

Delete 'baseline' - just confusing for people in the future



<<   This document extends the baseline encoding by redefining the EXP>>

   This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding by redefining the 01



(and a couple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that this is 01 c=
odepoint)


S2.1

<<   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that indicates packets that

      have been marked at a PCN-interior-node as a result of an

      indication from the threshold-metering function [RFC5670<http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/rfc5670>].

      Abbreviated to ThM.>>

I wonder if this would be clearer as

   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that indicates a packet has bee=
n threshold-marked, that is a packet that

      has been marked at a PCN-interior-node as a result of an

      indication from the threshold-metering function [RFC5670<http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/rfc5670>].

      Abbreviated to ThM.

[firstly clearer to refer to 'packet' than 'packets', secondly uses the ter=
m 'threshold-marked' which was defined in 5559]

Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint



<<   Not-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that indicates PCN-packets but

      that are not PCN-marked.  Abbreviated to NM.>>

delete 'but'



S3

<< A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured to

   recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.  Appendix A<http://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A> discusses the

   choice of suitable DSCPs.  In Figure 1 'DSCP n' indicates such a PCN-

   compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any packet carrying a PCN-

   compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined in [RFC5559<http://tools.ietf=
.org/html/rfc5559>].>>

A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured to

   recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.  Appendix A<http://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A> discusses the

   choice of suitable DSCP(s).  In Figure 1 'DSCP n' indicates such a PCN-

   compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any packet carrying a PCN-

   compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field anything other than 00 (Not-PCN) =
is a PCN-packet as defined in [RFC5559<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559>]=
.

[DSCPs =3D> DSCP(s). And added phrase in last sentence]

4.2

Delete "the baseline encoding "



With =3D> that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]



4.3

<< For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel endpoints (IP-in-IP

   and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the ECN

   encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in [RFC6040<http://tools.i=
etf.org/html/rfc6040>] (see

   Section 4.2<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07=
#section-4.2>).  There is one exception to this rule outlined next.

>>

With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel endpoints (IP-in-IP

   and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the ECN

   encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in [RFC6040<http://tools.i=
etf.org/html/rfc6040>] (see

   Section 4.2<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07=
#section-4.2>).



S5

<< As mentioned in Section 4.3<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-=
in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3> above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply with

   [RFC6040<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>].>>

All PCN-nodes MUST comply with [RFC6040<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>=
]. Since PCN is a new capability, this is considered a reasonable requireme=
nt.



[note that it isn't mentioned in Section 4.3<http://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3> !]



S5.2.3

<< Observant readers may spot an apparent inconsistency

   between the two following cases.  Appendix D<http://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D> explains the rationale

   behind this inconsistency.

>>

Appendix D<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#app=
endix-D> explains the rationale for the behaviours defined in this section.

[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk of inconsistency.]



S5.3

<<   marking is used it should treat ETM as ThM.  However it SHOULD raise>>

   marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.  However it SHOULD raise



s6.1

<< PCN-ingress-

   nodes ensure that any packets entering the PCN-domain have the ECN

   field in their outermost IP header set to the appropriate PCN

   codepoint.  >>

CHANGE TO "appropriate codepoint" (as it may be appropriate to set it to 00=
, which isn't a PCN codepoint)



6.2

Thre =3D> there



10

Criticism is misspelt



Appendix A

The para "PCN-marking is intended...

It wasn't clear to me whether PCN is operating on the whole aggregate of cl=
asses together, or on each class separately. Or whether either is possible.



App B

<< a.  flow signalling associates

a.  flow signalling, which associates



<< Interactive Real-Time,

       Broadcast TV >>

These have slightly different names in App A



<< Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN actions

=3D> tunnelling



   a) Does not require admission control:

   b) Requires Admission-control:

i think it would be helpful to add "The e2e ECN traffic is not treated as P=
CN-traffic" and "The e2e ECN traffic is treated as PCN-traffic"



<<

     *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic in a tunnel with a PCN-

         compatible DSCP in the outer header.  The PCN-egress zeroes the

         ECN-field before decapsulation.



      *  The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress

         zeros the ECN field of all PCN packets.

>>

This can't be quite right, something like

     *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic in a tunnel with, in the outer =
header, a PCN-

         compatible DSCP and the ECN-field set to Not-PCN.  The PCN-egress =
zeroes the

         (outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.



      *  The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked packets and otherwise sets the ECN=
-field to NM, and sets the DCSP to a PCN-         compatible DSCP [or requi=
res that it's already in such a DSCP??]. The PCN-egress zeroes the ECN fiel=
d of all PCN packets; note this turns off e2e ECN.



[note, 'zeroes']

[i'm not sure about the last bullet, is this what you mean>?]



You could also correct PCN-ingress to PCN-ingress-node throughout the secti=
on; ditto PCN-egress.



<<Note that a PCN interior node may turn

      ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would not be compatible with the

      (currently experimental) ECN nonce [RFC3540<http://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/rfc3540>].>>

Well a PCN-interior-node doesn't know about ECT. Change to:

Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 to 01 (NM to=
 ThM), which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a change from ECT(0) in=
to ECT(1) -- hence it would not be compatible with the (currently experimen=
tal) ECN nonce [RFC3540<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540>].



App C

<<But [RFC5129<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129>] was written while

   PCN specifications were in early draft stages>>

The 'But' makes it sound like you're updating 5129 (i don't think you are, =
if i remember right)



ECT(0) -> NM

Etc (all 6 bullets need to be changed)



After the last bullet you could add

"The above sets of codepoints are required for every PCN-compatible DSCP."



App D

In title & , Discrepancy -> Difference

Apparent discrepancy -> slight difference

(to me, discrepancy implies something is wrong)



<<The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule that

      ETM is more severe and must never be changed to ThM even though

      ETM is not a valid marking in this case.  >>

The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule of Section 5.2.=
1 that

      ETM is more severe and must never be changed to ThM (even though

      ETM is not a valid marking in this case).



First bullet

Your argument also means that a ThM should be corrected to ETM (since the e=
xcess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM marks on arriving packets).=
 At the moment it only gets corrected when the meter wants to ETM mark the =
pkt.

But making this correction would require different code compared with the s=
tandard behaviour.

Personally i'd just delete the first bullet. If not, make it the second one=
 (as it's harder to understand)






Best wishes
phil

Philip Eardley
Research and Technology Strategy

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential=
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From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scott=
 O Bradner
Sent: 31 July 2011 18:38
To: Toby Moncaster
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)

Scott

On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:


I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
day LC!)

Toby


-----Original Message-----
From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:pcn-bounces=
@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Scott O. Bradner
Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
To: pcn@ietf.org<mailto:pcn@ietf.org>
Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt


this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

comments by July 15 please

Scott
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org<mailto:PCN@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


Scott Bradner

Harvard University Information Technology
Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
+1 617 495 3864
29 Oxford St., Room 407
Cambridge, MA 02138
www.harvard.edu/huit<http://www.harvard.edu/huit>





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mal><a name=3Dsignoff><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Here are some small comments &#8211; the doc l=
ooks very good and is ready for IESG i think<o:p></o:p></span></a></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
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an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
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y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&lt;&lt;</span>&nbsp;&nbsp; The bas=
eline encoding defined in [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696" t=
itle=3D"&quot;Baseline Encoding and Transport of Pre-Congestion Information=
&quot;">RFC5696</a>] described how two PCN&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Del=
ete &#8216;baseline&#8217; &#8211; just confusing for people in the future<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This =
document extends the baseline encoding by redefining the EXP&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding by =
redefining the 01<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>(and a c=
ouple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that this is 01 codepoint=
)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>S=
2.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&lt;&lt;</span>&nbsp;&nbsp; Threshold-=
marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint that indicates packets that<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have been marked at a PCN-interior=
-node as a result of an<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 indication from the threshold-metering function [<a href=3D"http://tools.i=
etf.org/html/rfc5670" title=3D"&quot;Metering and Marking Behaviour of PCN-=
 Nodes&quot;">RFC5670</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; Abbreviated to ThM.&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I wonder if this woul=
d be clearer as<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; Threshold-marked codepoin=
t:&nbsp; a codepoint that indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, tha=
t is a packet that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; has =
been marked at a PCN-interior-node as a result of an<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indication from the threshold-metering functi=
on [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670" title=3D"&quot;Metering =
and Marking Behaviour of PCN- Nodes&quot;">RFC5670</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre><p=
re>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abbreviated to ThM.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=
[firstly clearer to refer to &#8216;packet&#8217; than &#8216;packets&#8217=
;, secondly uses the term &#8216;threshold-marked&#8217; which was defined =
in 5559]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint=
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Not-=
marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint that indicates PCN-packets but<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that are not PCN-marked.&nbsp; =
Abbreviated to NM.&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>delete &#8216;but&#8217;<o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>S3<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&lt;=
&lt; A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured to<o:p=
></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.&n=
bsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-0=
7#appendix-A">Appendix A</a> discusses the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp=
; choice of suitable DSCPs.&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP n' indicates such a PCN=
-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-d=
omain, any packet carrying a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compati=
ble DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined in [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/rfc5559" title=3D"&quot;Pre-Congestion Notification (PCN) Architecture&q=
uot;">RFC5559</a>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>A PCN-node (i.e. a node wi=
thin a PCN-domain) will be configured to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A">Appendix A</a> =
discusses the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; choice of suitable DSCP(s).=
&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP n' indicates such a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbs=
p;&nbsp; compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-domain, any packet carrying =
a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP and with the ECN-f=
ield anything other than 00 (Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in [<a hre=
f=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559" title=3D"&quot;Pre-Congestion Noti=
fication (PCN) Architecture&quot;">RFC5559</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[DSCP=
s =3D&gt; DSCP(s). And added phrase in last sentence]<o:p></o:p></pre><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'>4.2<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Delete &#8220;</span>the baseline =
encoding &#8220;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>With =3D&=
gt; that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></pre><pre>4.3<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt; For the full 3-in-1 encodi=
ng to apply, any tunnel endpoints (IP-in-IP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbs=
p; and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the ECN<o:p></o:p></pr=
e><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in [<a hr=
ef=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040" title=3D"&quot;Tunnelling of Expl=
icit Congestion Notification&quot;">RFC6040</a>] (see<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=
&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-en=
coding-07#section-4.2">Section 4.2</a>). &nbsp;There is one exception to th=
is rule outlined next.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>=
<pre>With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel endpoints (IP-in-I=
P<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST c=
omply with the ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation and deca=
psulation rules set out in [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040" =
title=3D"&quot;Tunnelling of Explicit Congestion Notification&quot;">RFC604=
0</a>] (see<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.=
org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2">Section 4.2</a>).&n=
bsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>S5<o:p></o:p></pre><=
pre>&lt;&lt; As mentioned in <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ie=
tf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3">Section 4.3</a> above, all PCN-nodes=
 MUST comply with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; [<a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc6040" title=3D"&quot;Tunnelling of Explicit Congestion N=
otification&quot;">RFC6040</a>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>All PCN-nodes=
 MUST comply with [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040" title=3D"=
&quot;Tunnelling of Explicit Congestion Notification&quot;">RFC6040</a>]. S=
ince PCN is a new capability, this is considered a reasonable requirement.<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>[note that it isn&#8217;t =
mentioned in <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-en=
coding-07#section-4.3">Section 4.3</a> !]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></pre><pre>S5.2.3<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt; Observant readers may =
spot an apparent inconsistency<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; between th=
e two following cases.&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ie=
tf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D">Appendix D</a> explains the rationale=
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; behind this inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></p=
re><pre>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D">Appendix D</a> explain=
s the rationale for the behaviours defined in this section.<o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre>[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk of inconsisten=
cy.]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>S5.3<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; marking is used it should treat ETM as ThM.&nbsp;=
 However it SHOULD raise&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; marking =
is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.&nbsp; However it SHOULD raise<o:p></o:p=
></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>s6.1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt; =
PCN-ingress-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; nodes ensure that any packet=
s entering the PCN-domain have the ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; fi=
eld in their outermost IP header set to the appropriate PCN<o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; codepoint.&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>CHANGE TO &#8220;appropriat=
e codepoint&#8221; (as it may be appropriate to set it to 00, which isn&#82=
17;t a PCN codepoint)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>6.2<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Thre =3D&gt; there<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></pre><pre>10<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Criticism is misspelt <o:p></o:p></pr=
e><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Appendix A<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>The para=
 &#8220;PCN-marking is intended...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>It wasn&#8217;t cle=
ar to me whether PCN is operating on the whole aggregate of classes togethe=
r, or on each class separately. Or whether either is possible.<o:p></o:p></=
pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>App B<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt; a.=
&nbsp; flow signalling associates<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a.&nbsp; flow signal=
ling, which associates<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&lt=
;&lt; Interactive Real-Time,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Broadcast TV &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>These have slightly =
different names in App A<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&=
lt;&lt; Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN actions<o:p></o:p></pre><=
pre>=3D&gt; tunnelling<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&nb=
sp;&nbsp; a) Does not require admission control:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp=
;&nbsp; b) Requires Admission-control:&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>i think =
it would be helpful to add &#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is not treated as PCN=
-traffic&#8221; and &#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is treated as PCN-traffic&#8=
221;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this=
 traffic in a tunnel with a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP in the outer header.&nbsp; The =
PCN-egress zeroes the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECN-field before decapsulation.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingre=
ss drops CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zeros the ECN field of all PCN pac=
kets.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>This can&#82=
17;t be quite right, something like<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this traffic in a tunnel with, in the=
 outer header, a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP and the ECN-field set to Not-PCN.&nbsp; Th=
e PCN-egress zeroes the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked packets and othe=
rwise sets the ECN-field to NM, and sets the DCSP to a PCN-&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP [or requires that it&#8217=
;s already in such a DSCP??]. The PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PC=
N packets; note this turns off e2e ECN.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></pre><pre>[note, &#8216;zeroes&#8217;]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[i&#8217;m =
not sure about the last bullet, is this what you mean&gt;?]<o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>You could also correct PCN-ingress to PCN=
-ingress-node throughout the section; ditto PCN-egress.<o:p></o:p></pre><pr=
e><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt;Note that a PCN interior node may tur=
n<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECT(0) into ECT(1), w=
hich would not be compatible with the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; (currently experimental) ECN nonce [<a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc3540" title=3D"&quot;Robust Explicit Congestion Notificati=
on (ECN) Signaling with Nonces&quot;">RFC3540</a>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre>Well a PCN-interior-node doesn&#8217;t know about ECT. Change to: <o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre>Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field f=
rom 10 to 01 (NM to ThM), which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a ch=
ange from ECT(0) into ECT(1) &#8211;- hence it would not be compatible with=
 the (currently experimental) ECN nonce [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/rfc3540" title=3D"&quot;Robust Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) S=
ignaling with Nonces&quot;">RFC3540</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></pre><pre>App C<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&lt;But [<a href=3D"http://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129" title=3D"&quot;Explicit Congestion Marking in M=
PLS&quot;">RFC5129</a>] was written while<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 PCN specifications were in early draft stages&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre=
>The &#8216;But&#8217; makes it sound like you&#8217;re updating 5129 (i do=
n&#8217;t think you are, if i remember right)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></pre><pre>ECT(0) -&gt; NM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Etc (all 6 bullets=
 need to be changed)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>After=
 the last bullet you could add<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&#8220;The above sets o=
f codepoints are required for every PCN-compatible DSCP.&#8221;<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>App D<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>In title &=
amp; , Discrepancy -&gt; Difference<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Apparent discrepan=
cy -&gt; slight difference<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(to me, discrepancy implies=
 something is wrong)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&lt;&=
lt;The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule that<o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is more severe and must ne=
ver be changed to ThM even though<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking in this case.&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre>The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule of=
 Section 5.2.1 that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM=
 is more severe and must never be changed to ThM (even though<o:p></o:p></p=
re><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking in this c=
ase).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>First bullet<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Your argument also means that a ThM should be correcte=
d to ETM (since the excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM marks =
on arriving packets). At the moment it only gets corrected when the meter w=
ants to ETM mark the pkt. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>But making this correction =
would require different code compared with the standard behaviour.<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre>Personally i&#8217;d just delete the first bullet. If not, mak=
e it the second one (as it&#8217;s harder to understand)<o:p></o:p></pre><p=
re><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'>phil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Philip Eardley&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if";color:#1F497D'><br></span><b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Research and Technology Strategy</span=
></b><b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'><br><br></span></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=
=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This em=
ail contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's =
meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the i=
ntended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using thi=
s information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please=
 let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor =
our email system, and may record your emails.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><=
span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>British Telecommunications plc<br>Registered office: 81 Newgate Street L=
ondon EC1A 7AJ<br>Registered in England no: 1800000<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pcn-bounces@ietf.org [mai=
lto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott O Bradner<br><b>Sent:</=
b> 31 July 2011 18:38<br><b>To:</b> Toby Moncaster<br><b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.o=
rg<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.=
txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting &nbsp;:-)<o:p></=
o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>Scott<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby=
 Moncaster wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o=
:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I'm guessing you mean comments by August 1=
5? (otherwise this will be a ~350<br>day LC!)<br><br>Toby<br><br><br><o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal=
>From: <a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a> [ma=
ilto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sco=
tt O. Bradner<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.=
0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<o:p>=
</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:=
5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a href=3D"mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.or=
g</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;marg=
in-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pc=
n-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'ma=
rgin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D=
'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>this starts a W=
GLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;=
margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>comments by July 15 please<o:p></=
o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.=
0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote sty=
le=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Scott<o:p>=
</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:=
5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________=
<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bo=
ttom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>PCN mailing list<o:p></o:p></p></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMso=
Normal><a href=3D"mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
3.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Scott Bradner<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13=
.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;fon=
t-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Harvard University Informati=
on Technology<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ecurity |&nbsp;Policy, Risk &amp; Compliance<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helveti=
ca","sans-serif";color:black'>+1 617 495 3864<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvet=
ica","sans-serif";color:black'>29 Oxford St., Room 407<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-famil=
y:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Cambridge, MA 02138<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3B00FF'><a href=3D"http://www.harvar=
d.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica=
","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans=
-serif";color:black'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRDdoma_--

From menth@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de  Sun Aug  7 07:20:10 2011
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Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 16:20:05 +0200
From: Michael Menth <menth@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>
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Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
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Hi all,

I have mostly editorial comments highlighted in the attached Word file.

Regards,

     Michael

Am 30.07.2011 21:39, schrieb Scott O. Bradner:
> this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
> comments by July 15 please
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> PCN mailing list
> PCN@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


--------------010604090008000502020505
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please ignore


// Steve

From bob.briscoe@bt.com  Thu Aug 18 02:38:07 2011
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Michael,

I like nearly all your editorial changes.

In a couple of cases, they have made me notice an even better way of 
saying it. But in the first two cases, I prefer the original to your 
suggestion. I have said why in my annotation of your annotations here 
(mine are in red in the PDF)
<http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.doc>
<http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.pdf>


Bob

At 15:20 07/08/2011, Michael Menth wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have mostly editorial comments highlighted in the attached Word file.
>
>Regards,
>
>     Michael
>
>Am 30.07.2011 21:39, schrieb Scott O. Bradner:
>>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>
>>comments by July 15 please
>>
>>Scott
>>_______________________________________________
>>PCN mailing list
>>PCN@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design 


From menth@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de  Thu Aug 18 02:54:24 2011
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Hi Bob,

the changes are fine with me.

Best wishes,

     Michael

Am 18.08.2011 11:34, schrieb Bob Briscoe:
> Michael,
>
> I like nearly all your editorial changes.
>
> In a couple of cases, they have made me notice an even better way of 
> saying it. But in the first two cases, I prefer the original to your 
> suggestion. I have said why in my annotation of your annotations here 
> (mine are in red in the PDF)
> <http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.doc> 
>
> <http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.pdf> 
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> At 15:20 07/08/2011, Michael Menth wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have mostly editorial comments highlighted in the attached Word file.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>     Michael
>>
>> Am 30.07.2011 21:39, schrieb Scott O. Bradner:
>>> this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>
>>> comments by July 15 please
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PCN mailing list
>>> PCN@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design

-- 
Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth
University of Tuebingen
Faculty of Science
Department of Computer Science
Chair of Communication Networks
Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany
phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505
fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220
mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de
http://www-kn.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de


From bob.briscoe@bt.com  Thu Aug 18 03:07:25 2011
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Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
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Phil,

Agree with everything. A few reponses inline....

At 10:03 05/08/2011, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>=20
>boundary=3D"_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRDdoma_"
>
>Here are some small comments =96 the doc looks=20
>very good and is ready for IESG i think
>
>S1
>
><<   The baseline encoding defined in=20
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696>RFC5696] described how two PCN>>
>
>Delete =91baseline=92 =96 just confusing for people in the future
>
><<   This document extends the baseline encoding by redefining the EXP>>
>
>    This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding by redefining the 01
>
>(and a couple of lines earlier where you mention=20
>EXP, add that this is 01 codepoint)
>
>
>S2.1
>
><<   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that indicates packets that
>       have been marked at a PCN-interior-node as a result of an
>       indication from the threshold-metering=20
> function [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670>RFC5670].
>       Abbreviated to ThM.>>
>
>I wonder if this would be clearer as
>
>    Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint=20
> that indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, that is a packet that
>       has been marked at a PCN-interior-node as a result of an
>       indication from the threshold-metering=20
> function [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670>RFC5670].
>       Abbreviated to ThM.
>
>[firstly clearer to refer to =91packet=92 than=20
>=91packets=92, secondly uses the term =91threshold-marked=92 which was=
 defined in 5559]
>
>Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint
>
><<   Not-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that indicates PCN-packets but
>       that are not PCN-marked.  Abbreviated to NM.>>
>
>delete =91but=92
>
>S3
>
><< A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured to
>    recognise certain DSCPs as=20
> PCN-compatible.=20
>=
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>Ap=
pendix=20
> A discusses the
>    choice of suitable DSCPs.  In Figure 1 'DSCP n' indicates such a PCN-
>    compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any packet carrying a PCN-
>    compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined=20
> in [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559>RFC5559].>>
>
>A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured to
>    recognise certain DSCP(s) as=20
> PCN-compatible.=20
>=
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>Ap=
pendix=20
> A discusses the
>    choice of suitable DSCP(s).  In Figure 1 'DSCP n' indicates such a PCN-
>    compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any packet carrying a PCN-
>    compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field=20
> anything other than 00 (Not-PCN) is a=20
> PCN-packet as defined in [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559>RFC5559].
>
>[DSCPs =3D> DSCP(s). And added phrase in last sentence]
>
>4.2
>
>Delete =93the baseline encoding =93
>
>With =3D> that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]
>
>4.3
>
><< For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel endpoints (IP-in-IP
>    and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the ECN
>    encapsulation and decapsulation rules set=20
> out in [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040] (see
>=20
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>S=
ection=20
>4.2).  There is one exception to this rule outlined next.
>
> >>
>
>With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel endpoints (IP-in-IP
>    and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the ECN
>    encapsulation and decapsulation rules set=20
> out in [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040] (see
>=20
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>S=
ection=20
>4.2).
>
>S5
>
><< As mentioned in=20
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>S=
ection=20
>4.3 above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply with
>    [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040].>>
>
>All PCN-nodes MUST comply with=20
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040].=20
>Since PCN is a new capability, this is considered a reasonable requirement.
>[note that it isn=92t mentioned in=20
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>S=
ection=20
>4.3 !]
>
>S5.2.3
>
><< Observant readers may spot an apparent inconsistency
>    between the two following=20
> cases.=20
>=
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>Ap=
pendix=20
> D explains the rationale
>    behind this inconsistency.
> >>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>Ap=
pendix=20
>D explains the rationale for the behaviours defined in this section.
>
>[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk of inconsistency.]
>
>S5.3
>
><<   marking is used it should treat ETM as ThM.  However it SHOULD raise>>
>
>    marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.  However it SHOULD raise
>
>s6.1
>
><< PCN-ingress-
>    nodes ensure that any packets entering the PCN-domain have the ECN
>    field in their outermost IP header set to the appropriate PCN
>    codepoint.  >>
>
>CHANGE TO =93appropriate codepoint=94 (as it may be=20
>appropriate to set it to 00, which isn=92t a PCN codepoint)
>
>6.2
>
>Thre =3D> there
>
>10
>
>Criticism is misspelt
>
>Appendix A
>
>The para =93PCN-marking is intended...
>
>It wasn=92t clear to me whether PCN is operating=20
>on the whole aggregate of classes together, or=20
>on each class separately. Or whether either is possible.

[BB] That depends totally on whether the classes=20
are all treated with the same scheduling=20
behaviour. If they're all in different queues,=20
PCN cannot be applied to the aggregate. If=20
they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot be applied to each class=
 separately.

>
>App B
>
><< a.  flow signalling associates
>
>a.  flow signalling, which associates
>
>
><< Interactive Real-Time,
>
>        Broadcast TV >>
>
>These have slightly different names in App A
>
>
><< Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN actions
>
>=3D> tunnelling
>
>
>    a) Does not require admission control:
>
>    b) Requires Admission-control:
>
>i think it would be helpful to add =93The e2e ECN=20
>traffic is not treated as PCN-traffic=94 and =93The=20
>e2e ECN traffic is treated as PCN-traffic=94

[BB] Unclear what you are asking for.

>
>
><<
>      *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic in a tunnel with a PCN-
>          compatible DSCP in the outer header.  The PCN-egress zeroes the
>          ECN-field before decapsulation.
>
>       *  The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress
>          zeros the ECN field of all PCN packets.
> >>
>
>This can=92t be quite right, something like
>
>      *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic in=20
> a tunnel with, in the outer header, a=20
> PCN-compatible DSCP and the ECN-field set to=20
> Not-PCN.  The PCN-egress zeroes the (outer) ECN-field before=
 decapsulation.

[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the=20
ECN field in the inner, and use PCN in the outer=20
over the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent PCN being used.


>       *  The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked=20
> packets and otherwise sets the ECN-field to NM,=20
> and sets the DCSP to a PCN-compatible DSCP [or=20
> requires that it=92s already in such a DSCP??].=20
> The PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PCN=20
> packets; note this turns off e2e ECN.
>
>[note, =91zeroes=92]
>
>[i=92m not sure about the last bullet, is this what you mean>?]

[BB] Yes


>You could also correct PCN-ingress to=20
>PCN-ingress-node throughout the section; ditto PCN-egress.
>
><<Note that a PCN interior node may turn
>
>       ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would not be compatible with the
>
>       (currently experimental) ECN nonce=20
> [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540>RFC3540].>>
>
>Well a PCN-interior-node doesn=92t know about ECT. Change to:
>
>Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the=20
>ECN-field from 10 to 01 (NM to ThM), which would=20
>be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a change from=20
>ECT(0) into ECT(1) =96- hence it would not be=20
>compatible with the (currently experimental) ECN=20
>nonce [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540>RFC3540].
>App C
>
><<But [<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129>RFC5129] was written while
>    PCN specifications were in early draft stages>>
>
>The =91But=92 makes it sound like you=92re updating=20
>5129 (i don=92t think you are, if i remember right)

[BB] OK. Delete 'But'.


>ECT(0) -> NM
>
>Etc (all 6 bullets need to be changed)
>
>
>After the last bullet you could add
>
>=93The above sets of codepoints are required for every PCN-compatible=
 DSCP.=94

[BB] Yup.

>
>
>App D
>
>In title & , Discrepancy -> Difference
>
>Apparent discrepancy -> slight difference
>
>(to me, discrepancy implies something is wrong)

[BB] OK, but no need to say 'slight', given it's a complete reversal.


><<The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule that
>       ETM is more severe and must never be changed to ThM even though
>       ETM is not a valid marking in this case.  >>
>
>The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps=20
>to the rule of Section 5.2.1 that
>       ETM is more severe and must never be changed to ThM (even though
>       ETM is not a valid marking in this case).
>
>
>First bullet
>
>Your argument also means that a ThM should be=20
>corrected to ETM (since the=20
>excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM=20
>marks on arriving packets). At the moment it=20
>only gets corrected when the meter wants to ETM mark the pkt.
>
>But making this correction would require=20
>different code compared with the standard behaviour.
>
>Personally i=92d just delete the first bullet. If=20
>not, make it the second one (as it=92s harder to understand)

[BB] You're right. I agree we should just remove the first bullet.
And I suggest we add your sentence about=20
requiring different code at the end of the remaining bullet.

Thanks



Bob


>
>
>
>
>
>Best wishes
>phil
>  Philip Eardley
>Research and Technology Strategy
>
>This email contains BT information, which may be=20
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>From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org=20
>[mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scott O Bradner
>Sent: 31 July 2011 18:38
>To: Toby Moncaster
>Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)
>
>Scott
>
>On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:
>
>
>I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
>day LC!)
>
>Toby
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:=20
><mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org>pcn-bounces@ietf.org=20
>  [mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>
>Scott O. Bradner
>
>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
>
>To: <mailto:pcn@ietf.org>pcn@ietf.org
>
>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>
>
>comments by July 15 please
>
>
>
>Scott
>
>_______________________________________________
>
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>
><mailto:PCN@ietf.org>PCN@ietf.org
>
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>
>
>
>Scott Bradner
>
>Harvard University Information Technology
>Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
>+1 617 495 3864
>29 Oxford St., Room 407
>Cambridge, MA 02138
><http://www.harvard.edu/huit>www.harvard.edu/huit
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design=20
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<body>
Phil,<br><br>
Agree with everything. A few reponses inline....<br><br>
At 10:03 05/08/2011, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Content-Language: en-US<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>
boundary=3D&quot;_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRDdom=
a_&quot;<br>
<br>
<a name=3D"signoff"></a>Here are some small comments =96 the doc looks very
good and is ready for IESG i think<br>
&nbsp;<br>
S1<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; The baseline encoding defined in
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696">RFC5696</a>] described how
two PCN&gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>Delete =91baseline=92 =96 just confusing for people in the
future</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This document extends the baseline encoding by
redefining the EXP&gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding by
redefining the 01</pre><br><br>
<pre>(and a couple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that this
is 01 codepoint)</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
S2.1<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint
that indicates packets that</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have been marked at a
PCN-interior-node as a result of an</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indication from the
threshold-metering function
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abbreviated to
ThM.&gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>I wonder if this would be clearer as</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint that
indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, that is a packet
that</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; has been marked at a
PCN-interior-node as a result of an</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indication from the
threshold-metering function
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abbreviated to ThM.</pre><br><br>
<pre>[firstly clearer to refer to =91packet=92 than =91packets=92, secondly =
uses
the term =91threshold-marked=92 which was defined in 5559]</pre><br><br>
<pre>Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Not-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint that
indicates PCN-packets but</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that are not PCN-marked.&nbsp;
Abbreviated to NM.&gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>delete =91but=92</pre><br><br>
<pre>S3</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be
configured to</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">
Appendix A</a> discusses the</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; choice of suitable DSCPs.&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP n'
indicates such a PCN-</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-domain, any
packet carrying a PCN-</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined in
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a>].&gt;&gt;</pre>
<br><br>
<pre>A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured
to</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">
Appendix A</a> discusses the</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; choice of suitable DSCP(s).&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP n'
indicates such a PCN-</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-domain, any
packet carrying a PCN-</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field anything other
than 00 (Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a>].</pre><br><br>
<pre>[DSCPs =3D&gt; DSCP(s). And added phrase in last sentence]</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br>
4.2<br><br>
<pre>Delete =93the baseline encoding =93</pre><br><br>
<pre>With =3D&gt; that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]</pre><br><br>
<pre>4.3</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel endpoints
(IP-in-IP</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the
ECN</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]
(see</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">
Section 4.2</a>).&nbsp; There is one exception to this rule outlined
next.</pre><br><br>
<pre>&gt;&gt; </pre><br><br>
<pre>With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel endpoints
(IP-in-IP</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the
ECN</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]
(see</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">
Section 4.2</a>).&nbsp; </pre><br><br>
<pre>S5</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; As mentioned in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">
Section 4.3</a> above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply with</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>].&gt;&gt;</pre>
<br><br>
<pre>All PCN-nodes MUST comply with
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]. Since PCN is
a new capability, this is considered a reasonable requirement.</pre><br>
<pre>[note that it isn=92t mentioned in
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">
Section 4.3</a> !]</pre><br><br>
<pre>S5.2.3</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; Observant readers may spot an apparent
inconsistency</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; between the two following cases.&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">
Appendix D</a> explains the rationale</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; behind this inconsistency.</pre><br>
<pre>&gt;&gt; </pre><br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">
Appendix D</a> explains the rationale for the behaviours defined in this
section.</pre><br><br>
<pre>[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk of
inconsistency.]</pre><br><br>
<pre>S5.3</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; marking is used it should treat ETM as
ThM.&nbsp; However it SHOULD raise&gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.&nbsp;
However it SHOULD raise</pre><br><br>
<pre>s6.1</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; PCN-ingress-</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; nodes ensure that any packets entering the PCN-domain
have the ECN</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; field in their outermost IP header set to the
appropriate PCN</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; codepoint.&nbsp;
&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</pre><br><br>
<pre>CHANGE TO =93appropriate codepoint=94 (as it may be appropriate to set
it to 00, which isn=92t a PCN codepoint)</pre><br><br>
<pre>6.2</pre><br><br>
<pre>Thre =3D&gt; there</pre><br><br>
<pre>10</pre><br><br>
<pre>Criticism is misspelt </pre><br><br>
<pre>Appendix A</pre><br><br>
<pre>The para =93PCN-marking is intended...</pre><br><br>
<pre>It wasn=92t clear to me whether PCN is operating on the whole
aggregate of classes together, or on each class separately. Or whether
either is possible.</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] That depends totally on whether the classes are all treated with the
same scheduling behaviour. If they're all in different queues, PCN cannot
be applied to the aggregate. If they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot
be applied to each class separately.<br><br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
<pre>App B</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; a.&nbsp; flow signalling associates</pre><br><br>
<pre>a.&nbsp; flow signalling, which associates</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; Interactive Real-Time,</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Broadcast TV
&gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>These have slightly different names in App A</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN
actions</pre><br><br>
<pre>=3D&gt; tunnelling</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; a) Does not require admission control:</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; b) Requires Admission-control:&nbsp; </pre><br><br>
<pre>i think it would be helpful to add =93The e2e ECN traffic is not
treated as PCN-traffic=94 and =93The e2e ECN traffic is treated as
PCN-traffic=94</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] Unclear what you are asking for.<br><br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; </pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this traffic
in a tunnel with a PCN-</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP in
the outer header.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECN-field before
decapsulation.</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress drops
CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zeros the ECN field
of all PCN packets.</pre><br>
<pre>&gt;&gt; </pre><br><br>
<pre>This can=92t be quite right, something like</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this traffic
in a tunnel with, in the outer header, a PCN-compatible DSCP and the
ECN-field set to Not-PCN.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the</pre>
<pre>(outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the ECN field in the inner,
and use PCN in the outer over the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent
PCN being used.<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked
packets and otherwise sets the ECN-field to NM, and sets the DCSP to a
PCN-compatible DSCP [or requires that it=92s already in such a DSCP??]. The
PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PCN packets; note this turns off
e2e ECN.</pre><br><br>
<pre>[note, =91zeroes=92]</pre><br><br>
<pre>[i=92m not sure about the last bullet, is this what you mean&gt;?]
</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] Yes<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>You could also correct
PCN-ingress to PCN-ingress-node throughout the section; ditto
PCN-egress.</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;Note that a PCN interior node may turn</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would not
be compatible with the</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (currently experimental) ECN nonce
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a>].&gt;&gt;</pre>
<br><br>
<pre>Well a PCN-interior-node doesn=92t know about ECT. Change to:
</pre><br><br>
<pre>Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 to 01
(NM to ThM), which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a change from
ECT(0) into ECT(1) =96- hence it would not be compatible with the
(currently experimental) ECN nonce
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a>].</pre><br>
<pre>App C</pre><br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;But
[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129">RFC5129</a>] was written
while</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; PCN specifications were in early draft
stages&gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>The =91But=92 makes it sound like you=92re updating 5129 (i don=92t thi=
nk
you are, if i remember right)
</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] OK. Delete 'But'.<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>ECT(0) -&gt;
NM</pre><br><br>
<pre>Etc (all 6 bullets need to be changed)</pre><br><br>
<br>
<pre>After the last bullet you could add</pre><br><br>
<pre>=93The above sets of codepoints are required for every PCN-compatible
DSCP.=94</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] Yup.<br><br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>App D</pre><br><br>
<pre>In title &amp; , Discrepancy -&gt; Difference</pre><br><br>
<pre>Apparent discrepancy -&gt; slight difference</pre><br><br>
<pre>(to me, discrepancy implies something is wrong)
</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] OK, but no need to say 'slight', given it's a complete
reversal.<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>&lt;&lt;The behaviour wi=
th
only threshold marking keeps to the rule that</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is more severe and must never be
changed to ThM even though</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking in this
case.&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule of
Section 5.2.1 that</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is more severe and must never be
changed to ThM (even though</pre><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking in this
case).&nbsp; </pre><br><br>
<br>
<pre>First bullet</pre><br><br>
<pre>Your argument also means that a ThM should be corrected to ETM
(since the excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM marks on
arriving packets). At the moment it only gets corrected when the meter
wants to ETM mark the pkt. </pre><br><br>
<pre>But making this correction would require different code compared
with the standard behaviour.</pre><br><br>
<pre>Personally i=92d just delete the first bullet. If not, make it the
second one (as it=92s harder to understand)
</pre></blockquote><br>
[BB] You're right. I agree we should just remove the first bullet.<br>
And I suggest we add your sentence about requiring different code at the
end of the remaining bullet.<br><br>
Thanks<br><br>
<br><br>
Bob<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
Best wishes<br>
phil<br>
&nbsp;<b>Philip Eardley&nbsp;&nbsp; </b><br>
<b>Research and Technology Strategy<br><br>
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<b>From:</b> pcn-bounces@ietf.org
[<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora=3D"autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott O Bradner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 31 July 2011 18:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Toby Moncaster<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] WGLC for
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>
&nbsp;<br>
sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting&nbsp; :-)<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Scott<br>
&nbsp;<br>
On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br>
<br>
I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a
~350<br>
day LC!)<br><br>
Toby<br><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>

<dl>
<dd>From: <a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>
[<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora=3D"autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br><br>

<dd>Scott O. Bradner<br><br>

<dd>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<br><br>

<dd>To: <a href=3D"mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><br><br>

<dd>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>

<dd>&nbsp;<br><br>

<dd>&nbsp;<br><br>

<dd>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>

<dd>&nbsp;<br><br>

<dd>comments by July 15 please<br><br>

<dd>&nbsp;<br><br>

<dd>Scott<br><br>

<dd>_______________________________________________<br><br>

<dd>PCN mailing list<br><br>

<dd><a href=3D"mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br><br>

<dd><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora=3D"autourl"=
>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a><br><br>

</dl>&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Scott Bradner<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Harvard University Information Technology<br>
Security | Policy, Risk &amp; Compliance<br>
+1 617 495 3864<br>
29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>
Cambridge, MA 02138<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
PCN@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora=3D"autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
BT Innovate &amp; Design</body>
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Scott,

Now WGLC is over, we've had two useful reviews from Michael (a 
co-author) and Phil with a reasonably large number of editorial changes.

Assuming the outstanding conversations converge, I don't think there 
are any disagreements on the technical effect, or on anything normative.

I think there's enough editorial changes to warrant a rev before 
sending to the IESG. However, if you would rather it goes straight to 
the IESG, I wouldn't fight. if I recall correctly none of the 
requested changes imply the existing text is completely incomprehensible.

Your call...


Bob

At 23:38 31/07/2011, Scott O Bradner wrote:
>sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)
>
>Scott
>
>On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:
>
>>I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
>>day LC!)
>>
>>Toby
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: <mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org>pcn-bounces@ietf.org 
>>>[mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>>>Scott O. Bradner
>>>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
>>>To: <mailto:pcn@ietf.org>pcn@ietf.org
>>>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>
>>>
>>>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>
>>>comments by July 15 please
>>>
>>>Scott
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>PCN mailing list
>>><mailto:PCN@ietf.org>PCN@ietf.org
>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>
>Scott Bradner
>
>Harvard University Information Technology
>Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
>+1 617 495 3864
>29 Oxford St., Room 407
>Cambridge, MA 02138
><http://www.harvard.edu/huit>www.harvard.edu/huit
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design 
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<html>
<body>
Scott,<br><br>
Now WGLC is over, we've had two useful reviews from Michael (a co-author)
and Phil with a reasonably large number of editorial changes.<br><br>
Assuming the outstanding conversations converge, I don't think there are
any disagreements on the technical effect, or on anything
normative.<br><br>
I think there's enough editorial changes to warrant a rev before sending
to the IESG. However, if you would rather it goes straight to the IESG, I
wouldn't fight. if I recall correctly none of the requested changes imply
the existing text is completely incomprehensible.<br><br>
Your call...<br><br>
<br>
Bob<br><br>
At 23:38 31/07/2011, Scott O Bradner wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">sigh - tooooo long a IETF
meeting&nbsp; :-)<br><br>
Scott<br><br>
On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I'm guessing you mean comments
by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350<br>
day LC!)<br><br>
Toby<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
Scott O. Bradner<br>
Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>
<br>
this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>
comments by July 15 please<br><br>
Scott<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora="autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
Scott Bradner<br><br>
Harvard University Information Technology<br>
Security | Policy, Risk &amp; Compliance<br>
+1 617 495 3864<br>
29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>
Cambridge, MA 02138<br>
<a href="http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
PCN@ietf.org<br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora="autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
BT Innovate &amp; Design</body>
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Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
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Bob,

 

Is there any chance you will be able to take over the pen for a final round
of tweaks now the WGLC is over? I'm going to be fairly busy over the next
few weeks.

 

Toby

 

From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob
Briscoe
Sent: 18 August 2011 11:08
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

 

Phil,

Agree with everything. A few reponses inline....

At 10:03 05/08/2011, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:



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Here are some small comments - the doc looks very good and is ready for IESG
i think
 
S1

<<   The baseline encoding defined in
[RFC5696 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696> ] described how
two PCN>>

 

Delete 'baseline' - just confusing for people in the
future

 

<<   This document extends the baseline encoding by
redefining the EXP>>

 

   This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding by
redefining the 01

 

(and a couple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that this
is 01 codepoint)

 

 


S2.1

<<   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint
that indicates packets that

 

      have been marked at a
PCN-interior-node as a result of an

 

      indication from the
threshold-metering function
[RFC5670 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670> ].

 

      Abbreviated to
ThM.>>

 

I wonder if this would be clearer as

 

   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that
indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, that is a packet
that

 

      has been marked at a
PCN-interior-node as a result of an

 

      indication from the
threshold-metering function
[RFC5670 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670> ].

 

      Abbreviated to ThM.

 

[firstly clearer to refer to 'packet' than 'packets', secondly uses
the term 'threshold-marked' which was defined in 5559]

 

Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint

 

<<   Not-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that
indicates PCN-packets but

 

      that are not PCN-marked. 
Abbreviated to NM.>>

 

delete 'but'

 

S3

 

<< A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be
configured to

 

   recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible. 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A> 
Appendix A
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>
discusses the

 

   choice of suitable DSCPs.  In Figure 1 'DSCP n'
indicates such a PCN-

 

   compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any
packet carrying a PCN-

 

   compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined in
[RFC5559 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559> ].>>

 

A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured
to

 

   recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible. 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A> 
Appendix A
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>
discusses the

 

   choice of suitable DSCP(s).  In Figure 1 'DSCP n'
indicates such a PCN-

 

   compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any
packet carrying a PCN-

 

   compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field anything other
than 00 (Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in
[RFC5559 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559> ].

 

[DSCPs => DSCP(s). And added phrase in last sentence]


 
4.2

Delete "the baseline encoding "

 

With => that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]

 

4.3

 

<< For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel endpoints
(IP-in-IP

 

   and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the
ECN

 

   encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in
[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> ]
(see

 

  
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2> 
Section 4.2
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>
).  There is one exception to this rule outlined
next.

 

>> 

 

With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel endpoints
(IP-in-IP

 

   and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the
ECN

 

   encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in
[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> ]
(see

 

  
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2> 
Section 4.2
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>
).  

 

S5

 

<< As mentioned in
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3> 
Section 4.3
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>
above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply with

 

  
[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> ].>>

 

All PCN-nodes MUST comply with
[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> ]. Since PCN is
a new capability, this is considered a reasonable requirement.

 

[note that it isn't mentioned in
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3> 
Section 4.3
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>
!]

 

S5.2.3

 

<< Observant readers may spot an apparent
inconsistency

 

   between the two following cases. 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D> 
Appendix D
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>
explains the rationale

 

   behind this inconsistency.

 

>> 

 

 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D> 
Appendix D
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>
explains the rationale for the behaviours defined in this
section.

 

[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk of
inconsistency.]

 

S5.3

 

<<   marking is used it should treat ETM as
ThM.  However it SHOULD raise>>

 

   marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM. 
However it SHOULD raise

 

s6.1

 

<< PCN-ingress-

 

   nodes ensure that any packets entering the PCN-domain
have the ECN

 

   field in their outermost IP header set to the
appropriate PCN

 

   codepoint. 
>>                                    

 

CHANGE TO "appropriate codepoint" (as it may be appropriate to set
it to 00, which isn't a PCN codepoint)

 

6.2

 

Thre => there

 

10

 

Criticism is misspelt 

 

Appendix A

 

The para "PCN-marking is intended...

 

It wasn't clear to me whether PCN is operating on the whole
aggregate of classes together, or on each class separately. Or whether
either is possible.


[BB] That depends totally on whether the classes are all treated with the
same scheduling behaviour. If they're all in different queues, PCN cannot be
applied to the aggregate. If they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot be
applied to each class separately.




 

 

App B

 

<< a.  flow signalling associates

 

a.  flow signalling, which associates

 

 

 

<< Interactive Real-Time,

 

       Broadcast TV
>> 

 

These have slightly different names in App A

 

 

 

<< Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN
actions

 

=> tunnelling

 

 

 

   a) Does not require admission control:

 

   b) Requires Admission-control:  

 

i think it would be helpful to add "The e2e ECN traffic is not
treated as PCN-traffic" and "The e2e ECN traffic is treated as
PCN-traffic"


[BB] Unclear what you are asking for.




 

 

<< 

 

     *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic
in a tunnel with a PCN-

 

         compatible DSCP in
the outer header.  The PCN-egress zeroes the

 

         ECN-field before
decapsulation.

 

      *  The PCN-ingress drops
CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress

 

         zeros the ECN field
of all PCN packets.

 

>> 

 

This can't be quite right, something like

 

     *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic
in a tunnel with, in the outer header, a PCN-compatible DSCP and the
ECN-field set to Not-PCN.  The PCN-egress zeroes the
(outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.


[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the ECN field in the inner,
and use PCN in the outer over the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent
PCN being used.





 
      *  The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked
packets and otherwise sets the ECN-field to NM, and sets the DCSP to a
PCN-compatible DSCP [or requires that it's already in such a DSCP??]. The
PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PCN packets; note this turns off
e2e ECN.

 

[note, 'zeroes']

 

[i'm not sure about the last bullet, is this what you mean>?]


[BB] Yes





You could also correct
PCN-ingress to PCN-ingress-node throughout the section; ditto
PCN-egress.

 

<<Note that a PCN interior node may turn

 

      ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would not
be compatible with the

 

      (currently experimental) ECN nonce
[RFC3540 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540> ].>>

 

Well a PCN-interior-node doesn't know about ECT. Change to:

 

Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 to 01
(NM to ThM), which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a change from
ECT(0) into ECT(1) -- hence it would not be compatible with the
(currently experimental) ECN nonce
[RFC3540 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540> ].

 

App C

 

<<But
[RFC5129 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129> ] was written
while

 

   PCN specifications were in early draft
stages>>

 

The 'But' makes it sound like you're updating 5129 (i don't think
you are, if i remember right)


[BB] OK. Delete 'But'.





ECT(0) ->
NM

 

Etc (all 6 bullets need to be changed)





After the last bullet you could add

 

"The above sets of codepoints are required for every PCN-compatible
DSCP."


[BB] Yup.




 

 

App D

 

In title & , Discrepancy -> Difference

 

Apparent discrepancy -> slight difference

 

(to me, discrepancy implies something is wrong)


[BB] OK, but no need to say 'slight', given it's a complete reversal.





<<The behaviour with
only threshold marking keeps to the rule that

 

      ETM is more severe and must never be
changed to ThM even though

 

      ETM is not a valid marking in this
case.  >>

 

The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule of
Section 5.2.1 that

 

      ETM is more severe and must never be
changed to ThM (even though

 

      ETM is not a valid marking in this
case).  





First bullet

 

Your argument also means that a ThM should be corrected to ETM
(since the excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM marks on
arriving packets). At the moment it only gets corrected when the meter
wants to ETM mark the pkt. 

 

But making this correction would require different code compared
with the standard behaviour.

 

Personally i'd just delete the first bullet. If not, make it the
second one (as it's harder to understand)


[BB] You're right. I agree we should just remove the first bullet.
And I suggest we add your sentence about requiring different code at the end
of the remaining bullet.

Thanks



Bob





 

 

 

 

 


Best wishes
phil
 Philip Eardley   
Research and Technology Strategy

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From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [ mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org
<mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org> ] On Behalf Of Scott O Bradner
Sent: 31 July 2011 18:38
To: Toby Moncaster
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
 
sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)
 
Scott
 
On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:


I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
day LC!)

Toby


-----Original Message-----

From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [ mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org
<mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org> ] On Behalf Of

Scott O. Bradner

Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40

To: pcn@ietf.org

Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

 

 

this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

 

comments by July 15 please

 

Scott

_______________________________________________

PCN mailing list

PCN@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

 
 
Scott Bradner
 
Harvard University Information Technology
Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
+1 617 495 3864
29 Oxford St., Room 407
Cambridge, MA 02138
www.harvard.edu/huit
 


 
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design


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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bob,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Is there any chance you will be able to take over the pen for a final =
round of tweaks now the WGLC is over? I&#8217;m going to be fairly busy =
over the next few weeks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
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lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
pcn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Bob Briscoe<br><b>Sent:</b> 18 August 2011 11:08<br><b>To:</b> =
philip.eardley@bt.com<br><b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[PCN] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Phil,<br><br>Agree with everything. A few reponses =
inline....<br><br>At 10:03 05/08/2011, philip.eardley@bt.com =
wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Content-Language: en-US<br>Content-Type: =
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; =
boundary=3D&quot;_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRD=
doma_&quot;<br><br><a name=3Dsignoff></a>Here are some small comments =
&#8211; the doc looks very good and is ready for IESG i =
think<br>&nbsp;<br>S1<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
baseline encoding defined in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696">RFC5696</a>] described =
how<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>two PCN&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Delete =
&#8216;baseline&#8217; &#8211; just confusing for people in =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>future<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; This document extends the baseline encoding =
by<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>redefining the EXP&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding =
by<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>redefining the 01<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(and a couple =
of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that =
this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>is 01 codepoint)<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>S2.1<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a =
codepoint<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that indicates packets =
that<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; have been marked at a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-interior-node as a =
result of an<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; indication from the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>threshold-metering =
function<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Abbreviated to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ThM.&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>I wonder if =
this would be clearer as<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint =
that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, =
that is a packet<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; has been marked at a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-interior-node as a =
result of an<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; indication from the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>threshold-metering =
function<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Abbreviated to ThM.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[firstly =
clearer to refer to &#8216;packet&#8217; than &#8216;packets&#8217;, =
secondly uses<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the term =
&#8216;threshold-marked&#8217; which was defined in =
5559]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Similarly for =
excess-traffic-marked codepoint<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; Not-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint =
that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>indicates PCN-packets but<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; that are not PCN-marked.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Abbreviated to =
NM.&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>delete =
&#8216;but&#8217;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>S3<o:p></o:p></p=
re><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; A =
PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will =
be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>configured to<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; recognise =
certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">Appendix A</a></span> discusses the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; choice of =
suitable DSCPs.&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP =
n'<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>indicates such a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible =
DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-domain, any<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>packet =
carrying a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP =
is a PCN-packet as defined in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>A PCN-node =
(i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be =
configured<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; recognise =
certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">Appendix A</a></span> discusses the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; choice of =
suitable DSCP(s).&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP =
n'<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>indicates such a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible =
DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-domain, any<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>packet =
carrying a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP =
and with the ECN-field anything other<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>than 00 =
(Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[DSCPs =3D&gt; =
DSCP(s). And added phrase in last sentence]<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<br>4.2<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Delet=
e &#8220;the baseline encoding &#8220;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>With =3D&gt; =
that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>4.3<o:p></o:p></=
pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; For =
the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel =
endpoints<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(IP-in-IP<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; and IPsec) =
within the PCN-domain MUST comply with =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation =
and decapsulation rules set out in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<pre>(see<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">Section 4.2</a></span>).&nbsp; There is one exception to this =
rule outlined<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>next.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>With one =
exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel =
endpoints<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(IP-in-IP<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; and IPsec) =
within the PCN-domain MUST comply with =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation =
and decapsulation rules set out in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<pre>(see<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">Section 4.2</a></span>).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>S5<o:p></o:p></p=
re><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; As =
mentioned in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">Section 4.3</a></span> above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply =
with<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>All PCN-nodes =
MUST comply with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]. Since PCN =
is<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a new capability, this is considered a =
reasonable requirement.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[note that it isn&#8217;t =
mentioned in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">Section 4.3</a></span> !]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>S5.2.3<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
Observant readers may spot an =
apparent<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>inconsistency<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; between the two =
following cases.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">Appendix D</a></span> explains the rationale<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; behind this =
inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">Appendix D</a></span> explains the rationale for the behaviours =
defined in this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>section.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[i see no =
reason to worry the average reader with talk =
of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>inconsistency.]<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>S5.3<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; marking is used it should treat ETM =
as<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ThM.&nbsp; However it SHOULD =
raise&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as =
ThM.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>However it SHOULD =
raise<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>s6.1<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
PCN-ingress-<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; nodes ensure =
that any packets entering the PCN-domain<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>have the =
ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; field in their =
outermost IP header set to the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>appropriate =
PCN<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
codepoint.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>CHANGE TO =
&#8220;appropriate codepoint&#8221; (as it may be appropriate to =
set<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>it to 00, which isn&#8217;t a PCN =
codepoint)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>6.2<o:p></o:p></=
pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Thre =3D&gt; =
there<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>10<o:p></o:p></p=
re><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Criticism is =
misspelt <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Appendix =
A<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>The para =
&#8220;PCN-marking is intended...<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>It wasn&#8217;t =
clear to me whether PCN is operating on the =
whole<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>aggregate of classes together, or on each =
class separately. Or whether<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>either is =
possible.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] That depends =
totally on whether the classes are all treated with the same scheduling =
behaviour. If they're all in different queues, PCN cannot be applied to =
the aggregate. If they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot be applied =
to each class =
separately.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>App B<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
a.&nbsp; flow signalling associates<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>a.&nbsp; flow =
signalling, which associates<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
Interactive Real-Time,<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Broadcast =
TV<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>These have =
slightly different names in App A<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; Figure =
2: Separation of tunneling and =
PCN<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>actions<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>=3D&gt; =
tunnelling<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; a) =
Does not require admission control:<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; b) =
Requires Admission-control:&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>i think it =
would be helpful to add &#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is =
not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>treated as PCN-traffic&#8221; and &#8220;The =
e2e ECN traffic is treated =
as<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-traffic&#8221;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] Unclear what you are asking =
for.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
*&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this traffic<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in a =
tunnel with a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the outer =
header.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECN-field =
before<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>decapsulation.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress =
drops<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>CE-marked packets and the =
PCN-egress<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zeros the ECN field<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of all PCN =
packets.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>This =
can&#8217;t be quite right, something like<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this =
traffic<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in a tunnel with, in the outer header, a =
PCN-compatible DSCP and the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ECN-field set to =
Not-PCN.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(outer) =
ECN-field before decapsulation.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the =
ECN field in the inner, and use PCN in the outer over the PCN domain. =
Your proposal would prevent PCN being =
used.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress drops =
CE-marked<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>packets and otherwise sets the ECN-field =
to NM, and sets the DCSP to a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-compatible DSCP =
[or requires that it&#8217;s already in such a DSCP??]. =
The<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PCN =
packets; note this turns off<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>e2e =
ECN.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[note, =
&#8216;zeroes&#8217;]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[i&#8217;m not =
sure about the last bullet, is this what you =
mean&gt;?]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] =
Yes<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>You could also =
correct<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-ingress to PCN-ingress-node throughout =
the section; ditto<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-egress.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;Note =
that a PCN interior node may turn<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would =
not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>be compatible with the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; (currently experimental) ECN =
nonce<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Well a =
PCN-interior-node doesn&#8217;t know about ECT. Change =
to:<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Note that a =
PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 to =
01<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(NM to ThM), which would be interpreted by the =
e2e ECN as a change from<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ECT(0) into ECT(1) =
&#8211;- hence it would not be compatible with =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(currently experimental) ECN =
nonce<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>App C<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;But<o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129">RFC5129</a>] was =
written<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>while<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; PCN =
specifications were in early =
draft<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>stages&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>The =
&#8216;But&#8217; makes it sound like you&#8217;re updating 5129 (i =
don&#8217;t think<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>you are, if i remember =
right)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] OK. Delete =
'But'.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>ECT(0) =
-&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NM<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Etc (all 6 =
bullets need to be changed)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>After the =
last bullet you could add<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&#8220;The =
above sets of codepoints are required for every =
PCN-compatible<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>DSCP.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] =
Yup.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>App =
D<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>In title &amp; =
, Discrepancy -&gt; Difference<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Apparent =
discrepancy -&gt; slight difference<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(to me, =
discrepancy implies something is wrong)<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] OK, but no need to say 'slight', given it's a =
complete reversal.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;The =
behaviour with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>only threshold marking keeps to the =
rule that<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ETM is more severe and must never be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>changed to =
ThM even though<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ETM is not a valid marking in this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>case.&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>The behaviour =
with only threshold marking keeps to the rule =
of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Section 5.2.1 that<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ETM is more severe and must never be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>changed to =
ThM (even though<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ETM is not a valid marking in this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>case).&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>First =
bullet<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Your argument =
also means that a ThM should be corrected to =
ETM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(since the excess-traffic-metering behaviour =
depends on ETM marks on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>arriving packets). At the =
moment it only gets corrected when the meter<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>wants =
to ETM mark the pkt. <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>But making this =
correction would require different code =
compared<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>with the standard =
behaviour.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Personally =
i&#8217;d just delete the first bullet. If not, make it =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>second one (as it&#8217;s harder to =
understand)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] You're right. =
I agree we should just remove the first bullet.<br>And I suggest we add =
your sentence about requiring different code at the end of the remaining =
bullet.<br><br>Thanks<br><br><br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p=
re>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>Best wishes<br>phil<br>&nbsp;<b>Philip =
Eardley&nbsp;&nbsp; </b><br><b>Research and Technology =
Strategy<br><br></b>This email contains BT information, which may be =
privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or =
entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that =
disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is =
prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know =
immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email =
system, and may record your emails.<br>British Telecommunications =
plc<br>Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A =
7AJ<br>Registered in England no: 1800000<br>&nbsp;<br><b>From:</b> =
pcn-bounces@ietf.org [<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org"> =
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott O =
Bradner<br><b>Sent:</b> 31 July 2011 18:38<br><b>To:</b> Toby =
Moncaster<br><b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] WGLC =
for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>&nbsp;<br>sigh - tooooo =
long a IETF meeting&nbsp; :-)<br>&nbsp;<br>Scott<br>&nbsp;<br>On Jul 31, =
2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br><br>I'm guessing you mean =
comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350<br>day =
LC!)<br><br>Toby<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org"> mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>Scott O. Bradner<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>this starts a WGLC for =
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>comments by July 15 please<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>Scott<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>PCN mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'><a =
href=3D"mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/pcn</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Scott Bradner<br>&nbsp;<br>Harvard =
University Information Technology<br>Security | Policy, Risk &amp; =
Compliance<br>+1 617 495 3864<br>29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>Cambridge, =
MA 02138<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br>&nbsp;<b=
r><br><br>&nbsp;<br>_______________________________________________<br>PC=
N mailing list<br>PCN@ietf.org<br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/pcn</a><o:p></o:p></p><p>________________________________=
________________________________<br>Bob =
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BT Innovate &amp; =
Design<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01CC5D99.71EBCCC0--


From philip.eardley@bt.com  Thu Aug 18 03:26:55 2011
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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <bob.briscoe@bt.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 11:27:43 +0100
Thread-Topic: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
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i think it would be helpful to add "The e2e ECN traffic is not

treated as PCN-traffic" and "The e2e ECN traffic is treated as

PCN-traffic"

[BB] Unclear what you are asking for.

[phil] i meant:

<< There are three cases for how e2e ECN traffic may wish to be treated
   while crossing a PCN domain:

   a) Does not require admission control:
>>

A summary of the approach here is (i think)  "The e2e ECN traffic is not
treated as PCN-traffic"


similarly, for b) Requires Admission-control

summary is "The e2e ECN traffic is treated as

PCN-traffic"





<<


     *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic in a tunnel with a PCN-compatib=
le DSCP in the outer header.  The PCN-egress zeroes the ECN-field before de=
capsulation.

      *  The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress zeros t=
he ECN field of all PCN packets.


>>


This can't be quite right, something like

     *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic in a tunnel with, in the outer =
header, a PCN-compatible DSCP and the

ECN-field set to Not-PCN.  The PCN-egress zeroes the (outer) ECN-field befo=
re decapsulation.

[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the ECN field in the inner, a=
nd use PCN in the outer over the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent PC=
N being used.

[phil] ok, PCN is applied the e2e ECN traffic (I can't remember why i said =
set to Not-PCN).






Best wishes
phil
 Philip Eardley
Research and Technology Strategy

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential=
. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're no=
t the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or us=
ing this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error,=
 please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We m=
onitor our email system, and may record your emails.
British Telecommunications plc
Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
Registered in England no: 1800000

From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [ mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scot=
t O Bradner
Sent: 31 July 2011 18:38
To: Toby Moncaster
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)

Scott

On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:


I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
day LC!)

Toby


-----Original Message-----
From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org> [ mailto:pcn-bounce=
s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Scott O. Bradner
Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
To: pcn@ietf.org<mailto:pcn@ietf.org>
Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt


this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

comments by July 15 please

Scott
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org<mailto:PCN@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn


Scott Bradner

Harvard University Information Technology
Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
+1 617 495 3864
29 Oxford St., Room 407
Cambridge, MA 02138
www.harvard.edu/huit<http://www.harvard.edu/huit>




_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><pre>i think it would be helpful to a=
dd &#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>treated as PCN-tr=
affic&#8221; and &#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is treated as<o:p></o:p></pre><=
pre>PCN-traffic&#8221;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>[BB] Unclea=
r what you are asking for.<br><br><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[phil] i me=
ant: </span><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&lt;&lt;</span> There are three case=
s for how e2e ECN traffic may wish to be treated<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nb=
sp;&nbsp; while crossing a PCN domain:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a) Does not require admission control:<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><pre><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'>A summary of the approach here is (i think) &nbsp;</s=
pan>&#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is not<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
treated as PCN-traffic&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><pre>similarly, for b) Requires Admission-control<o:p></o:p></pr=
e><pre><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'>summary is </span>&#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is treated as<o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-traffic&#8221;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1=
F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this traffic<span style=3D'col=
or:#1F497D'> </span>in a tunnel with a PCN-compatible DSCP in<span style=3D=
'color:#1F497D'> </span>the outer header.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the E=
CN-field before<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>decapsulation.<o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress drops<=
span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress z=
eros the ECN field<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>of all PCN packets.=
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; <o=
:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><pre>This can&#8217;t be quite right, something like<o:p></o:p=
></pre><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this tr=
affic<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>in a tunnel with, in the outer h=
eader, a PCN-compatible DSCP and the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ECN-field set to =
Not-PCN.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </sp=
an>(outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><br>[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the ECN field in the=
 inner, and use PCN in the outer over the PCN domain. Your proposal would p=
revent PCN being used.<br><br><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[phil] ok, PCN is applied the e2e ECN tr=
affic (I can&#8217;t remember why i said set to Not-PCN).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>Best wishes<br>phil<br>&nbsp;<b>Philip Eardley&nbs=
p;&nbsp; </b><br><b>Research and Technology Strategy<br><br></b>This email =
contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's mean=
t only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the inten=
ded recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this in=
formation is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let=
 me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our =
email system, and may record your emails.<br>British Telecommunications plc=
<br>Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ<br>Registered in E=
ngland no: 1800000<br>&nbsp;<br><b>From:</b> pcn-bounces@ietf.org [<a href=
=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org"> mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Be=
half Of </b>Scott O Bradner<br><b>Sent:</b> 31 July 2011 18:38<br><b>To:</b=
> Toby Moncaster<br><b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] WG=
LC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>&nbsp;<br>sigh - tooooo lon=
g a IETF meeting&nbsp; :-)<br>&nbsp;<br>Scott<br>&nbsp;<br>On Jul 31, 2011,=
 at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br><br>I'm guessing you mean comment=
s by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350<br>day LC!)<br><br>Toby<br><=
br><br>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-lef=
t:36.0pt'>From: <a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.or=
g</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org"> mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org=
</a>] On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>Scott =
O. Bradner<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0=
cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>Sent: 30 July =
2011 20:40<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0=
cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>To: <a href=3D=
"mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin=
-left:36.0pt'>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-=
right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-b=
ottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margi=
n-left:36.0pt'>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-=
right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-b=
ottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>comments by July 15 please<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin=
-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt'>Scott<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-marg=
in-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>__=
_____________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
;margin-left:36.0pt'>PCN mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-=
left:36.0pt'><a href=3D"mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;marg=
in-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
n/listinfo/pcn">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Scott Bradner<br>&nbsp;<br>Harvar=
d University Information Technology<br>Security | Policy, Risk &amp; Compli=
ance<br>+1 617 495 3864<br>29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>Cambridge, MA 02138<b=
r><a href=3D"http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br>&nbsp=
;<br><br><br>&nbsp;<br>_______________________________________________<br>P=
CN mailing list<br>PCN@ietf.org<br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/=
listinfo/pcn">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a><o:p></o:p></p><=
p>________________________________________________________________<br>Bob B=
riscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BT Innovate &amp; Design<o:p></=
o:p></p></div></body></html>=

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From: Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 08:40:50 -0400
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To: Bob Briscoe <bob.briscoe@bt.com>
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Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
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please update the ID first

tnx

Scott

On Aug 18, 2011, at 6:17 AM, Bob Briscoe wrote:

> Scott,
>=20
> Now WGLC is over, we've had two useful reviews from Michael (a =
co-author) and Phil with a reasonably large number of editorial changes.
>=20
> Assuming the outstanding conversations converge, I don't think there =
are any disagreements on the technical effect, or on anything normative.
>=20
> I think there's enough editorial changes to warrant a rev before =
sending to the IESG. However, if you would rather it goes straight to =
the IESG, I wouldn't fight. if I recall correctly none of the requested =
changes imply the existing text is completely incomprehensible.
>=20
> Your call...
>=20
>=20
> Bob
>=20
> At 23:38 31/07/2011, Scott O Bradner wrote:
>> sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)
>>=20
>> Scott
>>=20
>> On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:
>>=20
>>> I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be =
a ~350
>>> day LC!)
>>>=20
>>> Toby
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [ mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
>>>> Scott O. Bradner
>>>> Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
>>>> To: pcn@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>>=20
>>>> comments by July 15 please
>>>>=20
>>>> Scott
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PCN mailing list
>>>> PCN@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>=20
>> Scott Bradner
>>=20
>> Harvard University Information Technology
>> Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
>> +1 617 495 3864
>> 29 Oxford St., Room 407
>> Cambridge, MA 02138
>> www.harvard.edu/huit
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> PCN mailing list
>> PCN@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">please update the ID first<div><br></div><div>tnx</div><div><br></div><div>Scott</div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 18, 2011, at 6:17 AM, Bob Briscoe wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<div>
Scott,<br><br>
Now WGLC is over, we've had two useful reviews from Michael (a co-author)
and Phil with a reasonably large number of editorial changes.<br><br>
Assuming the outstanding conversations converge, I don't think there are
any disagreements on the technical effect, or on anything
normative.<br><br>
I think there's enough editorial changes to warrant a rev before sending
to the IESG. However, if you would rather it goes straight to the IESG, I
wouldn't fight. if I recall correctly none of the requested changes imply
the existing text is completely incomprehensible.<br><br>
Your call...<br><br>
<br>
Bob<br><br>
At 23:38 31/07/2011, Scott O Bradner wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="x-msg://38/">sigh - tooooo long a IETF
meeting&nbsp; :-)<br><br>
Scott<br><br>
On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="x-msg://38/">I'm guessing you mean comments
by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350<br>
day LC!)<br><br>
Toby<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="x-msg://38/">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
Scott O. Bradner<br>
Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>
<br>
this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>
comments by July 15 please<br><br>
Scott<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora="autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
Scott Bradner<br><br>
Harvard University Information Technology<br>
Security | Policy, Risk &amp; Compliance<br>
+1 617 495 3864<br>
29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>
Cambridge, MA 02138<br>
<a href="http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora="autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
BT Innovate &amp; Design</p></x-sigsep></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
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Scott,

OK


Bob

At 13:40 18/08/2011, Scott Bradner wrote:
>please update the ID first
>
>tnx
>
>Scott
>
>On Aug 18, 2011, at 6:17 AM, Bob Briscoe wrote:
>
>>Scott,
>>
>>Now WGLC is over, we've had two useful reviews from Michael (a 
>>co-author) and Phil with a reasonably large number of editorial changes.
>>
>>Assuming the outstanding conversations converge, I don't think 
>>there are any disagreements on the technical effect, or on anything normative.
>>
>>I think there's enough editorial changes to warrant a rev before 
>>sending to the IESG. However, if you would rather it goes straight 
>>to the IESG, I wouldn't fight. if I recall correctly none of the 
>>requested changes imply the existing text is completely incomprehensible.
>>
>>Your call...
>>
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>At 23:38 31/07/2011, Scott O Bradner wrote:
>>>sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)
>>>
>>>Scott
>>>
>>>On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
>>>>day LC!)
>>>>
>>>>Toby
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: <mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org>pcn-bounces@ietf.org [ 
>>>>>mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>Scott O. Bradner
>>>>>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
>>>>>To: <mailto:pcn@ietf.org>pcn@ietf.org
>>>>>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>comments by July 15 please
>>>>>
>>>>>Scott
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>PCN mailing list
>>>>><mailto:PCN@ietf.org>PCN@ietf.org
>>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>
>>>Scott Bradner
>>>
>>>Harvard University Information Technology
>>>Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
>>>+1 617 495 3864
>>>29 Oxford St., Room 407
>>>Cambridge, MA 02138
>>><http://www.harvard.edu/huit>www.harvard.edu/huit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>PCN mailing list
>>><mailto:PCN@ietf.org>PCN@ietf.org
>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>
>>________________________________________________________________
>>Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design 
--=====================_1023410376==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<body>
Scott,<br><br>
OK<br><br>
<br>
Bob<br><br>
At 13:40 18/08/2011, Scott Bradner wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">please update the ID
first<br><br>
tnx<br><br>
Scott<br><br>
On Aug 18, 2011, at 6:17 AM, Bob Briscoe wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Scott,<br><br>
Now WGLC is over, we've had two useful reviews from Michael (a co-author)
and Phil with a reasonably large number of editorial changes.<br><br>
Assuming the outstanding conversations converge, I don't think there are
any disagreements on the technical effect, or on anything
normative.<br><br>
I think there's enough editorial changes to warrant a rev before sending
to the IESG. However, if you would rather it goes straight to the IESG, I
wouldn't fight. if I recall correctly none of the requested changes imply
the existing text is completely incomprehensible.<br><br>
Your call...<br><br>
<br>
Bob<br><br>
At 23:38 31/07/2011, Scott O Bradner wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">sigh - tooooo long a IETF
meeting&nbsp; :-)<br><br>
Scott<br><br>
On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I'm guessing you mean comments
by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350<br>
day LC!)<br><br>
Toby<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a> [
<a href="mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
Scott O. Bradner<br>
Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>
<br>
this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br><br>
comments by July 15 please<br><br>
Scott<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora="autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
Scott Bradner<br><br>
Harvard University Information Technology<br>
Security | Policy, Risk &amp; Compliance<br>
+1 617 495 3864<br>
29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>
Cambridge, MA 02138<br>
<a href="http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora="autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a></blockquote><br>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
BT Innovate &amp; Design</blockquote></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
BT Innovate &amp; Design</body>
</html>

--=====================_1023410376==.ALT--


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Toby,

I was just going to offer, when I saw your email.
As I have all the edits in foreground memory at the mo, I'll do it now.

If you have any pent up edits since -07, pls send=20
the xml. Otherwise I'm going to start from the=20
-07.xml, assuming I can find it on your site (or otherwise the data=
 tracker).


Bob

At 11:24 18/08/2011, Toby Moncaster wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Is there any chance you will be able to take=20
>over the pen for a final round of tweaks now the=20
>WGLC is over? I=92m going to be fairly busy over the next few weeks.
>
>Toby
>
>From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org=20
>[mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob Briscoe
>Sent: 18 August 2011 11:08
>To: philip.eardley@bt.com
>Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>Phil,
>
>Agree with everything. A few reponses inline....
>
>At 10:03 05/08/2011, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>=20
>boundary=3D"_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRDdoma_"
>
>Here are some small comments =96 the doc looks=20
>very good and is ready for IESG i think
>
>S1
>
><<   The baseline encoding defined in
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696>RFC5696] described how
>
>two PCN>>
>
>
>Delete =91baseline=92 =96 just confusing for people in the
>
>future
>
>
><<   This document extends the baseline encoding by
>
>redefining the EXP>>
>
>
>    This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding by
>
>redefining the 01
>
>
>(and a couple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that this
>
>is 01 codepoint)
>
>
>
>
>S2.1
>
><<   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint
>
>that indicates packets that
>
>
>       have been marked at a
>
>PCN-interior-node as a result of an
>
>
>       indication from the
>
>threshold-metering function
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670>RFC5670].
>
>
>       Abbreviated to
>
>ThM.>>
>
>
>I wonder if this would be clearer as
>
>
>    Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that
>
>indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, that is a packet
>
>that
>
>
>       has been marked at a
>
>PCN-interior-node as a result of an
>
>
>       indication from the
>
>threshold-metering function
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670>RFC5670].
>
>
>       Abbreviated to ThM.
>
>
>[firstly clearer to refer to =91packet=92 than =91packets=92, secondly uses
>
>the term =91threshold-marked=92 which was defined in 5559]
>
>
>Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint
>
>
><<   Not-marked codepoint:  a codepoint that
>
>indicates PCN-packets but
>
>
>       that are not PCN-marked.
>
>Abbreviated to NM.>>
>
>
>delete =91but=92
>
>
>S3
>
>
><< A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be
>
>configured to
>
>
>    recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>Ap=
pendix=20
>A discusses the
>
>
>    choice of suitable DSCPs.  In Figure 1 'DSCP n'
>
>indicates such a PCN-
>
>
>    compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any
>
>packet carrying a PCN-
>
>
>    compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined in
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559>RFC5559].>>
>
>
>A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be configured
>
>to
>
>
>    recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>Ap=
pendix=20
>A discusses the
>
>
>    choice of suitable DSCP(s).  In Figure 1 'DSCP n'
>
>indicates such a PCN-
>
>
>    compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain, any
>
>packet carrying a PCN-
>
>
>    compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field anything other
>
>than 00 (Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559>RFC5559].
>
>
>[DSCPs =3D> DSCP(s). And added phrase in last sentence]
>
>
>4.2
>
>Delete =93the baseline encoding =93
>
>
>With =3D> that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]
>
>
>4.3
>
>
><< For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel endpoints
>(IP-in-IP
>
>
>    and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the
>
>ECN
>
>
>    encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040]
>
>(see
>
>
>
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>S=
ection=20
>4.2).  There is one exception to this rule outlined
>
>next.
>
>
> >>
>
>
>With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel endpoints
>
>(IP-in-IP
>
>
>    and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with the
>
>ECN
>
>
>    encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out in
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040]
>
>(see
>
>
>
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>S=
ection=20
>4.2).
>
>
>S5
>
>
><< As mentioned in
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>S=
ection=20
>4.3 above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply with
>
>
>
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040].>>
>
>
>All PCN-nodes MUST comply with
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040>RFC6040]. Since PCN is
>
>a new capability, this is considered a reasonable requirement.
>
>
>[note that it isn=92t mentioned in
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>S=
ection=20
>4.3 !]
>
>
>S5.2.3
>
>
><< Observant readers may spot an apparent
>
>inconsistency
>
>
>    between the two following cases.
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>Ap=
pendix=20
>D explains the rationale
>
>
>    behind this inconsistency.
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
><http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>Ap=
pendix=20
>D explains the rationale for the behaviours defined in this
>
>section.
>
>
>[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk of
>
>inconsistency.]
>
>
>S5.3
>
>
><<   marking is used it should treat ETM as
>
>ThM.  However it SHOULD raise>>
>
>
>    marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.
>
>However it SHOULD raise
>
>
>s6.1
>
>
><< PCN-ingress-
>
>
>    nodes ensure that any packets entering the PCN-domain
>
>have the ECN
>
>
>    field in their outermost IP header set to the
>
>appropriate PCN
>
>
>    codepoint.
>
> >>
>
>
>CHANGE TO =93appropriate codepoint=94 (as it may be appropriate to set
>
>it to 00, which isn=92t a PCN codepoint)
>
>
>6.2
>
>
>Thre =3D> there
>
>
>10
>
>
>Criticism is misspelt
>
>
>Appendix A
>
>
>The para =93PCN-marking is intended...
>
>
>It wasn=92t clear to me whether PCN is operating on the whole
>
>aggregate of classes together, or on each class separately. Or whether
>
>either is possible.
>
>[BB] That depends totally on whether the classes=20
>are all treated with the same scheduling=20
>behaviour. If they're all in different queues,=20
>PCN cannot be applied to the aggregate. If=20
>they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot be applied to each class=
 separately.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>App B
>
>
><< a.  flow signalling associates
>
>
>a.  flow signalling, which associates
>
>
>
>
>
><< Interactive Real-Time,
>
>
>        Broadcast TV
>
> >>
>
>
>These have slightly different names in App A
>
>
>
>
>
><< Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN
>
>actions
>
>
>=3D> tunnelling
>
>
>
>
>
>    a) Does not require admission control:
>
>
>    b) Requires Admission-control:
>
>
>i think it would be helpful to add =93The e2e ECN traffic is not
>
>treated as PCN-traffic=94 and =93The e2e ECN traffic is treated as
>
>PCN-traffic=94
>
>[BB] Unclear what you are asking for.
>
>
>
>
>
>
><<
>
>
>      *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic
>
>in a tunnel with a PCN-
>
>
>          compatible DSCP in
>
>the outer header.  The PCN-egress zeroes the
>
>
>          ECN-field before
>
>decapsulation.
>
>
>       *  The PCN-ingress drops
>
>CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress
>
>
>          zeros the ECN field
>
>of all PCN packets.
>
>
> >>
>
>
>This can=92t be quite right, something like
>
>
>      *  The PCN-ingress places this traffic
>in a tunnel with, in the outer header, a PCN-compatible DSCP and the
>
>ECN-field set to Not-PCN.  The PCN-egress zeroes the
>
>(outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.
>
>[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve=20
>the ECN field in the inner, and use PCN in the=20
>outer over the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent PCN being used.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       *  The PCN-ingress drops CE-marked
>
>packets and otherwise sets the ECN-field to NM, and sets the DCSP to a
>
>PCN-compatible DSCP [or requires that it=92s already in such a DSCP??]. The
>
>PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PCN packets; note this turns off
>
>e2e ECN.
>
>
>[note, =91zeroes=92]
>
>
>[i=92m not sure about the last bullet, is this what you mean>?]
>
>[BB] Yes
>
>
>
>
>You could also correct
>
>PCN-ingress to PCN-ingress-node throughout the section; ditto
>
>PCN-egress.
>
>
><<Note that a PCN interior node may turn
>
>
>       ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would not
>
>be compatible with the
>
>
>       (currently experimental) ECN nonce
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540>RFC3540].>>
>
>
>Well a PCN-interior-node doesn=92t know about ECT. Change to:
>
>
>Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 to 01
>
>(NM to ThM), which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a change from
>
>ECT(0) into ECT(1) =96- hence it would not be compatible with the
>
>(currently experimental) ECN nonce
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540>RFC3540].
>
>
>App C
>
>
><<But
>
>[<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129>RFC5129] was written
>
>while
>
>
>    PCN specifications were in early draft
>
>stages>>
>
>
>The =91But=92 makes it sound like you=92re updating 5129 (i don=92t think
>
>you are, if i remember right)
>
>[BB] OK. Delete 'But'.
>
>
>
>
>ECT(0) ->
>
>NM
>
>
>Etc (all 6 bullets need to be changed)
>
>
>
>After the last bullet you could add
>
>
>=93The above sets of codepoints are required for every PCN-compatible
>
>DSCP.=94
>
>[BB] Yup.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>App D
>
>
>In title & , Discrepancy -> Difference
>
>
>Apparent discrepancy -> slight difference
>
>
>(to me, discrepancy implies something is wrong)
>
>[BB] OK, but no need to say 'slight', given it's a complete reversal.
>
>
>
>
><<The behaviour with
>
>only threshold marking keeps to the rule that
>
>
>       ETM is more severe and must never be
>
>changed to ThM even though
>
>
>       ETM is not a valid marking in this
>
>case.  >>
>
>
>The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule of
>
>Section 5.2.1 that
>
>
>       ETM is more severe and must never be
>
>changed to ThM (even though
>
>
>       ETM is not a valid marking in this
>
>case).
>
>
>
>First bullet
>
>
>Your argument also means that a ThM should be corrected to ETM
>
>(since the excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM marks on
>
>arriving packets). At the moment it only gets corrected when the meter
>
>wants to ETM mark the pkt.
>
>
>But making this correction would require different code compared
>
>with the standard behaviour.
>
>
>Personally i=92d just delete the first bullet. If not, make it the
>
>second one (as it=92s harder to understand)
>
>[BB] You're right. I agree we should just remove the first bullet.
>And I suggest we add your sentence about=20
>requiring different code at the end of the remaining bullet.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Best wishes
>phil
>  Philip Eardley
>Research and Technology Strategy
>
>This email contains BT information, which may be=20
>privileged or confidential. It's meant only for=20
>the individual(s) or entity named above. If=20
>you're not the intended recipient, note that=20
>disclosing, copying, distributing or using this=20
>information is prohibited. If you've received=20
>this email in error, please let me know=20
>immediately on the email address above. Thank=20
>you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.
>British Telecommunications plc
>Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
>Registered in England no: 1800000
>
>From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [=20
>mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scott O Bradner
>Sent: 31 July 2011 18:38
>To: Toby Moncaster
>Cc: pcn@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)
>
>Scott
>
>On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:
>
>
>I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
>day LC!)
>
>Toby
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:=20
><mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org>pcn-bounces@ietf.org=20
>  [ mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>Scott O. Bradner
>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
>To: <mailto:pcn@ietf.org>pcn@ietf.org
>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>
>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>
>comments by July 15 please
>
>Scott
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
><mailto:PCN@ietf.org>PCN@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>
>
>Scott Bradner
>
>Harvard University Information Technology
>Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
>+1 617 495 3864
>29 Oxford St., Room 407
>Cambridge, MA 02138
><http://www.harvard.edu/huit>www.harvard.edu/huit
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>PCN mailing list
>PCN@ietf.org
><https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/pcn
>
>________________________________________________________________
>Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design=20
--=====================_1023725289==.ALT
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<body>
Toby,<br><br>
I was just going to offer, when I saw your email.<br>
As I have all the edits in foreground memory at the mo, I'll do it
now.<br><br>
If you have any pent up edits since -07, pls send the xml. Otherwise I'm
going to start from the -07.xml, assuming I can find it on your site (or
otherwise the data tracker).<br><br>
<br>
Bob<br><br>
At 11:24 18/08/2011, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Bob,<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Is there any chance you will be able to take over the pen for a final
round of tweaks now the WGLC is over? I=92m going to be fairly busy over
the next few weeks.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Toby<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<b>From:</b> pcn-bounces@ietf.org
[<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora=3D"autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Briscoe<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 18 August 2011 11:08<br>
<b>To:</b> philip.eardley@bt.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] WGLC for
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Phil,<br><br>
Agree with everything. A few reponses inline....<br><br>
At 10:03 05/08/2011, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br><br>
Content-Language: en-US<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
boundary=3D&quot;_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRDdom=
a_&quot;<br>
<br>
<a name=3D"signoff"></a>Here are some small comments =96 the doc looks very
good and is ready for IESG i think<br>
&nbsp;<br>
S1<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; The baseline encoding defined in</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696">RFC5696</a>] described
how</pre><br><br>
<pre>two PCN&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Delete =91baseline=92 =96 just confusing for people in=
 the</pre><br><br>
<pre>future</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This document extends the baseline encoding
by</pre><br><br>
<pre>redefining the EXP&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding
by</pre><br><br>
<pre>redefining the 01</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>(and a couple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that
this</pre><br><br>
<pre>is 01 codepoint)</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
S2.1<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a
codepoint</pre><br><br>
<pre>that indicates packets that</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have been marked at a</pre><br><br>
<pre>PCN-interior-node as a result of an</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indication from the</pre><br><br>
<pre>threshold-metering function</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abbreviated to</pre><br><br>
<pre>ThM.&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>I wonder if this would be clearer as</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint
that</pre><br><br>
<pre>indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, that is a
packet</pre><br><br>
<pre>that</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; has been marked at a</pre><br><br>
<pre>PCN-interior-node as a result of an</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indication from the</pre><br><br>
<pre>threshold-metering function</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abbreviated to ThM.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>[firstly clearer to refer to =91packet=92 than =91packets=92, secondly
uses</pre><br><br>
<pre>the term =91threshold-marked=92 which was defined in 5559]</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Not-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a codepoint
that</pre><br><br>
<pre>indicates PCN-packets but</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that are not PCN-marked.
</pre><br><br>
<pre>Abbreviated to NM.&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>delete =91but=92</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>S3</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will
be</pre><br><br>
<pre>configured to</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.
</pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">
Appendix A</a> discusses the</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; choice of suitable DSCPs.&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP
n'</pre><br><br>
<pre>indicates such a PCN-</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-domain,
any</pre><br><br>
<pre>packet carrying a PCN-</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined
in</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a>
].&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be
configured</pre><br><br>
<pre>to</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.
</pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">
Appendix A</a> discusses the</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; choice of suitable DSCP(s).&nbsp; In Figure 1 'DSCP
n'</pre><br><br>
<pre>indicates such a PCN-</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the PCN-domain,
any</pre><br><br>
<pre>packet carrying a PCN-</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field anything
other</pre><br><br>
<pre>than 00 (Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a>].</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>[DSCPs =3D&gt; DSCP(s). And added phrase in last
sentence]</pre><br><br>
&nbsp;<br>
4.2<br><br>
<pre>Delete =93the baseline encoding =93</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>With =3D&gt; that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>4.3</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel
endpoints</pre><br>
<pre>(IP-in-IP</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with
the</pre><br><br>
<pre>ECN</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out
in</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]</pre><br>
<br>
<pre>(see</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp; </pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">
Section 4.2</a>).&nbsp; There is one exception to this rule
outlined</pre><br><br>
<pre>next.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&gt;&gt; </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel
endpoints</pre><br><br>
<pre>(IP-in-IP</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with
the</pre><br><br>
<pre>ECN</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out
in</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]</pre><br>
<br>
<pre>(see</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp; </pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">
Section 4.2</a>).&nbsp; </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>S5</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; As mentioned in</pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">
Section 4.3</a> above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply with</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp; </pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>
].&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>All PCN-nodes MUST comply with</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]. Since
PCN is</pre><br><br>
<pre>a new capability, this is considered a reasonable
requirement.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>[note that it isn=92t mentioned in</pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">
Section 4.3</a> !]</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>S5.2.3</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; Observant readers may spot an apparent</pre><br><br>
<pre>inconsistency</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; between the two following cases. </pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">
Appendix D</a> explains the rationale</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; behind this inconsistency.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&gt;&gt; </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">
Appendix D</a> explains the rationale for the behaviours defined in
this</pre><br><br>
<pre>section.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk
of</pre><br><br>
<pre>inconsistency.]</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>S5.3</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; marking is used it should treat ETM
as</pre><br><br>
<pre>ThM.&nbsp; However it SHOULD raise&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.
</pre><br><br>
<pre>However it SHOULD raise</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>s6.1</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; PCN-ingress-</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; nodes ensure that any packets entering the
PCN-domain</pre><br><br>
<pre>have the ECN</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; field in their outermost IP header set to
the</pre><br><br>
<pre>appropriate PCN</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; codepoint. </pre><br><br>
<pre>
&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>CHANGE TO =93appropriate codepoint=94 (as it may be appropriate to
set</pre><br><br>
<pre>it to 00, which isn=92t a PCN codepoint)</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>6.2</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Thre =3D&gt; there</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>10</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Criticism is misspelt </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Appendix A</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>The para =93PCN-marking is intended...</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>It wasn=92t clear to me whether PCN is operating on the
whole</pre><br><br>
<pre>aggregate of classes together, or on each class separately. Or
whether</pre><br><br>
<pre>either is possible.</pre><br><br>
[BB] That depends totally on whether the classes are all treated with the
same scheduling behaviour. If they're all in different queues, PCN cannot
be applied to the aggregate. If they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot
be applied to each class separately.<br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>App B</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; a.&nbsp; flow signalling associates</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>a.&nbsp; flow signalling, which associates</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; Interactive Real-Time,</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Broadcast TV</pre><br><br>
<pre>&gt;&gt; </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>These have slightly different names in App A</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN</pre><br><br>
<pre>actions</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>=3D&gt; tunnelling</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; a) Does not require admission control:</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; b) Requires Admission-control:&nbsp; </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>i think it would be helpful to add =93The e2e ECN traffic is
not</pre><br><br>
<pre>treated as PCN-traffic=94 and =93The e2e ECN traffic is treated
as</pre><br><br>
<pre>PCN-traffic=94</pre><br><br>
[BB] Unclear what you are asking for.<br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt; </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this
traffic</pre><br><br>
<pre>in a tunnel with a PCN-</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible DSCP
in</pre><br><br>
<pre>the outer header.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECN-field
before</pre><br><br>
<pre>decapsulation.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress
drops</pre><br><br>
<pre>CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zeros the ECN
field</pre><br><br>
<pre>of all PCN packets.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&gt;&gt; </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>This can=92t be quite right, something like</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places this
traffic</pre><br>
<pre>in a tunnel with, in the outer header, a PCN-compatible DSCP and
the</pre><br><br>
<pre>ECN-field set to Not-PCN.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes
the</pre><br><br>
<pre>(outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.</pre><br><br>
[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the ECN field in the inner,
and use PCN in the outer over the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent
PCN being used.<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress drops
CE-marked</pre><br><br>
<pre>packets and otherwise sets the ECN-field to NM, and sets the DCSP to
a</pre><br><br>
<pre>PCN-compatible DSCP [or requires that it=92s already in such a
DSCP??]. The</pre><br><br>
<pre>PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PCN packets; note this turns
off</pre><br><br>
<pre>e2e ECN.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>[note, =91zeroes=92]</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>[i=92m not sure about the last bullet, is this what you
mean&gt;?]</pre><br><br>
[BB] Yes<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<pre>You could also correct</pre><br><br>
<pre>PCN-ingress to PCN-ingress-node throughout the section;
ditto</pre><br><br>
<pre>PCN-egress.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;Note that a PCN interior node may turn</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would
not</pre><br><br>
<pre>be compatible with the</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (currently experimental) ECN
nonce</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a>
].&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Well a PCN-interior-node doesn=92t know about ECT. Change
to:</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 to
01</pre><br><br>
<pre>(NM to ThM), which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a change
from</pre><br><br>
<pre>ECT(0) into ECT(1) =96- hence it would not be compatible with
the</pre><br><br>
<pre>(currently experimental) ECN nonce</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a>].</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>App C</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;But</pre><br><br>
<pre>[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129">RFC5129</a>] was
written</pre><br><br>
<pre>while</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; PCN specifications were in early draft</pre><br><br>
<pre>stages&gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>The =91But=92 makes it sound like you=92re updating 5129 (i don=92t
think</pre><br><br>
<pre>you are, if i remember right)</pre><br><br>
[BB] OK. Delete 'But'.<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<pre>ECT(0) -&gt;</pre><br><br>
<pre>NM</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Etc (all 6 bullets need to be changed)</pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>After the last bullet you could add</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>=93The above sets of codepoints are required for every
PCN-compatible</pre><br><br>
<pre>DSCP.=94</pre><br><br>
[BB] Yup.<br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>App D</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>In title &amp; , Discrepancy -&gt; Difference</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Apparent discrepancy -&gt; slight difference</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>(to me, discrepancy implies something is wrong)</pre><br><br>
[BB] OK, but no need to say 'slight', given it's a complete
reversal.<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<pre>&lt;&lt;The behaviour with</pre><br><br>
<pre>only threshold marking keeps to the rule that</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is more severe and must never
be</pre><br><br>
<pre>changed to ThM even though</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking in
this</pre><br><br>
<pre>case.&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule
of</pre><br><br>
<pre>Section 5.2.1 that</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is more severe and must never
be</pre><br><br>
<pre>changed to ThM (even though</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking in
this</pre><br><br>
<pre>case).&nbsp; </pre><br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>First bullet</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Your argument also means that a ThM should be corrected to
ETM</pre><br><br>
<pre>(since the excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM marks
on</pre><br><br>
<pre>arriving packets). At the moment it only gets corrected when the
meter</pre><br><br>
<pre>wants to ETM mark the pkt. </pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>But making this correction would require different code
compared</pre><br><br>
<pre>with the standard behaviour.</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>Personally i=92d just delete the first bullet. If not, make it
the</pre><br><br>
<pre>second one (as it=92s harder to understand)</pre><br><br>
[BB] You're right. I agree we should just remove the first bullet.<br>
And I suggest we add your sentence about requiring different code at the
end of the remaining bullet.<br><br>
Thanks<br><br>
<br><br>
Bob<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre><br><br>
Best wishes<br>
phil<br>
&nbsp;<b>Philip Eardley&nbsp;&nbsp; </b><br>
<b>Research and Technology Strategy<br><br>
</b>This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
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<b>From:</b> pcn-bounces@ietf.org
[<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora=3D"autourl">
</a><a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora=3D"autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott O Bradner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 31 July 2011 18:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Toby Moncaster<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] WGLC for
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>
&nbsp;<br>
sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting&nbsp; :-)<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Scott<br>
&nbsp;<br>
On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br>
<br>
I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a
~350<br>
day LC!)<br><br>
Toby<br><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>
[<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora=3D"autourl">
</a><a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org" eudora=3D"autourl">
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
Scott O. Bradner<br>
Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>
&nbsp;<br>
comments by July 15 please<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Scott<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn" eudora=3D"autourl">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a><br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Scott Bradner<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Harvard University Information Technology<br>
Security | Policy, Risk &amp; Compliance<br>
+1 617 495 3864<br>
29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>
Cambridge, MA 02138<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCN mailing list<br>
PCN@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn</a><br><br>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
BT Innovate &amp; Design</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
________________________________________________________________<br>
Bob
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
BT Innovate &amp; Design</body>
</html>

--=====================_1023725289==.ALT--


From bob.briscoe@bt.com  Thu Aug 18 07:19:22 2011
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Michael,

Tx


Bob

At 10:55 18/08/2011, Michael Menth wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>the changes are fine with me.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>     Michael
>
>Am 18.08.2011 11:34, schrieb Bob Briscoe:
>>Michael,
>>
>>I like nearly all your editorial changes.
>>
>>In a couple of cases, they have made me notice an even better way 
>>of saying it. But in the first two cases, I prefer the original to 
>>your suggestion. I have said why in my annotation of your 
>>annotations here (mine are in red in the PDF)
>><http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.doc> 
>>
>><http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.pdf> 
>>
>>
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>At 15:20 07/08/2011, Michael Menth wrote:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I have mostly editorial comments highlighted in the attached Word file.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>     Michael
>>>
>>>Am 30.07.2011 21:39, schrieb Scott O. Bradner:
>>>>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>>
>>>>comments by July 15 please
>>>>
>>>>Scott
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>PCN mailing list
>>>>PCN@ietf.org
>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>
>>>
>>
>>________________________________________________________________
>>Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design
>
>--
>Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth
>University of Tuebingen
>Faculty of Science
>Department of Computer Science
>Chair of Communication Networks
>Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany
>phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505
>fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220
>mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de
>http://www-kn.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design 


From bob.briscoe@bt.com  Thu Aug 18 09:51:39 2011
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Michael,

While making your changes, I noticed one I had missed in Appx B, case b).

BEFORE:
"The PCN-ingress-node places this traffic in a tunnel with a 
PCN-compatible DSCP in the outer header. The PCN-egress zeroes the 
ECN-field before decapsulation."
AFTER:
"The PCN-ingress-node places this traffic in a tunnel with a 
PCN-compatible DSCP in the outer header."

I don't understand why you want this last sentence deleted. It seems 
right to me.


Bob

At 15:20 18/08/2011, Bob Briscoe wrote:
>Michael,
>
>Tx
>
>
>Bob
>
>At 10:55 18/08/2011, Michael Menth wrote:
>>Hi Bob,
>>
>>the changes are fine with me.
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>
>>     Michael
>>
>>Am 18.08.2011 11:34, schrieb Bob Briscoe:
>>>Michael,
>>>
>>>I like nearly all your editorial changes.
>>>
>>>In a couple of cases, they have made me notice an even better way 
>>>of saying it. But in the first two cases, I prefer the original to 
>>>your suggestion. I have said why in my annotation of your 
>>>annotations here (mine are in red in the PDF)
>>><http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.doc> 
>>>
>>><http://bobbriscoe.net/projects/ipe2eqos/pcn/marking/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07-MM-BB.pdf> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>
>>>At 15:20 07/08/2011, Michael Menth wrote:
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>I have mostly editorial comments highlighted in the attached Word file.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>     Michael
>>>>
>>>>Am 30.07.2011 21:39, schrieb Scott O. Bradner:
>>>>>this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>comments by July 15 please
>>>>>
>>>>>Scott
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>PCN mailing list
>>>>>PCN@ietf.org
>>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
>>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________________________________________
>>>Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design
>>
>>--
>>Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth
>>University of Tuebingen
>>Faculty of Science
>>Department of Computer Science
>>Chair of Communication Networks
>>Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany
>>phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505
>>fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220
>>mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de
>>http://www-kn.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de
>
>________________________________________________________________
>Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design 


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I think I uploaded the xml to the datatracker - I certainly intended to.

 

Don't think I had any additional edits, and I agreed with pretty much all
you said to Phil about his comments. He is probably right about clarifying
the types of traffic we define in the appendix (the bit he had to re-explain
to you).

 

Re your comment RJB 1 in your pdf of Michael's edit: we could alter "revert"
which may confuse some people to "effectively downgrades the packet to Not
Marked", but would be happy to stick with revert if no one else has views.

 

I also agree with your other comment (not accepting Michael's reworked
paragraph in 4.3).

 

Toby

 

From: Bob Briscoe [mailto:bob.briscoe@bt.com] 
Sent: 18 August 2011 15:20
To: Toby Moncaster
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; pcn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt

 

Toby,

I was just going to offer, when I saw your email.
As I have all the edits in foreground memory at the mo, I'll do it now.

If you have any pent up edits since -07, pls send the xml. Otherwise I'm
going to start from the -07.xml, assuming I can find it on your site (or
otherwise the data tracker).


Bob

At 11:24 18/08/2011, Toby Moncaster wrote:



Bob,
 
Is there any chance you will be able to take over the pen for a final round
of tweaks now the WGLC is over? I'm going to be fairly busy over the next
few weeks.
 
Toby
 
From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [ mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org
<mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org> ] On Behalf Of Bob Briscoe
Sent: 18 August 2011 11:08
To: philip.eardley@bt.com
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
 
Phil,

Agree with everything. A few reponses inline....

At 10:03 05/08/2011, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:

Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 
boundary="_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRDdoma_"

Here are some small comments - the doc looks very good and is ready for IESG
i think
 
S1

<<   The baseline encoding defined in

 

[RFC5696 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696> ] described
how

 

two PCN>>


 

Delete 'baseline' - just confusing for people in the

 

future


 

<<   This document extends the baseline encoding
by

 

redefining the EXP>>


 

   This document amends the [RFC5696] encoding
by

 

redefining the 01


 

(and a couple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add that
this

 

is 01 codepoint)


 

 



S2.1

<<   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a
codepoint

 

that indicates packets that


 

      have been marked at a

 

PCN-interior-node as a result of an


 

      indication from the

 

threshold-metering function

 

[RFC5670 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670> ].


 

      Abbreviated to

 

ThM.>>


 

I wonder if this would be clearer as


 

   Threshold-marked codepoint:  a codepoint
that

 

indicates a packet has been threshold-marked, that is a
packet

 

that


 

      has been marked at a

 

PCN-interior-node as a result of an


 

      indication from the

 

threshold-metering function

 

[RFC5670 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670> ].


 

      Abbreviated to ThM.


 

[firstly clearer to refer to 'packet' than 'packets', secondly
uses

 

the term 'threshold-marked' which was defined in 5559]


 

Similarly for excess-traffic-marked codepoint


 

<<   Not-marked codepoint:  a codepoint
that

 

indicates PCN-packets but


 

      that are not PCN-marked.

 

Abbreviated to NM.>>


 

delete 'but'


 

S3


 

<< A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will
be

 

configured to


 

   recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A> 
Appendix A
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>
discusses the


 

   choice of suitable DSCPs.  In Figure 1 'DSCP
n'

 

indicates such a PCN-


 

   compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain,
any

 

packet carrying a PCN-


 

   compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as defined
in

 

[RFC5559 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559> 
].>>


 

A PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will be
configured

 

to


 

   recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A> 
Appendix A
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-A>
discusses the


 

   choice of suitable DSCP(s).  In Figure 1 'DSCP
n'

 

indicates such a PCN-


 

   compatible DSCP.  Within the PCN-domain,
any

 

packet carrying a PCN-


 

   compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field anything
other

 

than 00 (Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in

 

[RFC5559 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559> ].


 

[DSCPs => DSCP(s). And added phrase in last
sentence]



 
4.2

Delete "the baseline encoding "


 

With => that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]


 

4.3


 

<< For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any tunnel
endpoints

 

(IP-in-IP


 

   and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with
the

 

ECN


 

   encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out
in

 

[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> ]

 

(see


 

  






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2> 
Section 4.2
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>
).  There is one exception to this rule
outlined

 

next.


 

>> 


 

With one exception (see next paragraph), any tunnel
endpoints

 

(IP-in-IP


 

   and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply with
the

 

ECN


 

   encapsulation and decapsulation rules set out
in

 

[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> ]

 

(see


 

  






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2> 
Section 4.2
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.2>
).  


 

S5


 

<< As mentioned in






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3> 
Section 4.3
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>
above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply with


 

  

 

[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> 
].>>


 

All PCN-nodes MUST comply with

 

[RFC6040 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040> ]. Since
PCN is

 

a new capability, this is considered a reasonable
requirement.


 

[note that it isn't mentioned in






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3> 
Section 4.3
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#section-4.3>
!]


 

S5.2.3


 

<< Observant readers may spot an apparent

 

inconsistency


 

   between the two following cases. 






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D> 
Appendix D
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>
explains the rationale


 

   behind this inconsistency.


 

>> 


 

 






 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D> 
Appendix D
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appendix-D>
explains the rationale for the behaviours defined in
this

 

section.


 

[i see no reason to worry the average reader with talk
of

 

inconsistency.]


 

S5.3


 

<<   marking is used it should treat ETM
as

 

ThM.  However it SHOULD raise>>


 

   marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.

 

However it SHOULD raise


 

s6.1


 

<< PCN-ingress-


 

   nodes ensure that any packets entering the
PCN-domain

 

have the ECN


 

   field in their outermost IP header set to
the

 

appropriate PCN


 

   codepoint. 

 

 
>>                                   


 

CHANGE TO "appropriate codepoint" (as it may be appropriate to
set

 

it to 00, which isn't a PCN codepoint)


 

6.2


 

Thre => there


 

10


 

Criticism is misspelt 


 

Appendix A


 

The para "PCN-marking is intended...


 

It wasn't clear to me whether PCN is operating on the
whole

 

aggregate of classes together, or on each class separately. Or
whether

 

either is possible.



[BB] That depends totally on whether the classes are all treated with the
same scheduling behaviour. If they're all in different queues, PCN cannot be
applied to the aggregate. If they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot be
applied to each class separately.




 


 

App B


 

<< a.  flow signalling associates


 

a.  flow signalling, which associates


 

 


 

<< Interactive Real-Time,


 

       Broadcast TV

 

>> 


 

These have slightly different names in App A


 

 


 

<< Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN

 

actions


 

=> tunnelling


 

 


 

   a) Does not require admission control:


 

   b) Requires Admission-control:  


 

i think it would be helpful to add "The e2e ECN traffic is
not

 

treated as PCN-traffic" and "The e2e ECN traffic is treated
as

 

PCN-traffic"



[BB] Unclear what you are asking for.




 


 

<< 


 

     *  The PCN-ingress places this
traffic

 

in a tunnel with a PCN-


 

         compatible DSCP
in

 

the outer header.  The PCN-egress zeroes the


 

         ECN-field
before

 

decapsulation.


 

      *  The PCN-ingress
drops

 

CE-marked packets and the PCN-egress


 

         zeros the ECN
field

 

of all PCN packets.


 

>> 


 

This can't be quite right, something like


 

     *  The PCN-ingress places this
traffic

 

in a tunnel with, in the outer header, a PCN-compatible DSCP and
the

 

ECN-field set to Not-PCN.  The PCN-egress zeroes
the

 

(outer) ECN-field before decapsulation.



[BB] Surely not. The intention is to preserve the ECN field in the inner,
and use PCN in the outer over the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent
PCN being used.





 

 

      *  The PCN-ingress drops
CE-marked

 

packets and otherwise sets the ECN-field to NM, and sets the DCSP to
a

 

PCN-compatible DSCP [or requires that it's already in such a
DSCP??]. The

 

PCN-egress zeroes the ECN field of all PCN packets; note this turns
off

 

e2e ECN.


 

[note, 'zeroes']


 

[i'm not sure about the last bullet, is this what you
mean>?]



[BB] Yes





You could also correct

 

PCN-ingress to PCN-ingress-node throughout the section;
ditto

 

PCN-egress.


 

<<Note that a PCN interior node may turn


 

      ECT(0) into ECT(1), which would
not

 

be compatible with the


 

      (currently experimental) ECN
nonce

 

[RFC3540 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540> 
].>>


 

Well a PCN-interior-node doesn't know about ECT. Change
to:


 

Note that a PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 to
01

 

(NM to ThM), which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a change
from

 

ECT(0) into ECT(1) -- hence it would not be compatible with
the

 

(currently experimental) ECN nonce

 

[RFC3540 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540> ].


 

App C


 

<<But

 

[RFC5129 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129> ] was
written

 

while


 

   PCN specifications were in early draft

 

stages>>


 

The 'But' makes it sound like you're updating 5129 (i don't
think

 

you are, if i remember right)



[BB] OK. Delete 'But'.





ECT(0) ->

 

NM


 

Etc (all 6 bullets need to be changed)






After the last bullet you could add


 

"The above sets of codepoints are required for every
PCN-compatible

 

DSCP."



[BB] Yup.




 


 

App D


 

In title & , Discrepancy -> Difference


 

Apparent discrepancy -> slight difference


 

(to me, discrepancy implies something is wrong)



[BB] OK, but no need to say 'slight', given it's a complete reversal.





<<The behaviour with

 

only threshold marking keeps to the rule that


 

      ETM is more severe and must never
be

 

changed to ThM even though


 

      ETM is not a valid marking in
this

 

case.  >>


 

The behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the rule
of

 

Section 5.2.1 that


 

      ETM is more severe and must never
be

 

changed to ThM (even though


 

      ETM is not a valid marking in
this

 

case).  






First bullet


 

Your argument also means that a ThM should be corrected to
ETM

 

(since the excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM marks
on

 

arriving packets). At the moment it only gets corrected when the
meter

 

wants to ETM mark the pkt. 


 

But making this correction would require different code
compared

 

with the standard behaviour.


 

Personally i'd just delete the first bullet. If not, make it
the

 

second one (as it's harder to understand)



[BB] You're right. I agree we should just remove the first bullet.
And I suggest we add your sentence about requiring different code at the end
of the remaining bullet.

Thanks



Bob





 


 

 


 

 



Best wishes
phil
 Philip Eardley   
Research and Technology Strategy

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From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [  <mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org>
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scott O Bradner
Sent: 31 July 2011 18:38
To: Toby Moncaster
Cc: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
 
sigh - tooooo long a IETF meeting  :-)
 
Scott
 
On Jul 31, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:


I'm guessing you mean comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350
day LC!)

Toby


-----Original Message-----
From: pcn-bounces@ietf.org [  <mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org>
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Scott O. Bradner
Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40
To: pcn@ietf.org
Subject: [PCN] WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
 
 
this starts a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt
 
comments by July 15 please
 
Scott
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn
 
 
Scott Bradner
 
Harvard University Information Technology
Security | Policy, Risk & Compliance
+1 617 495 3864
29 Oxford St., Room 407
Cambridge, MA 02138
www.harvard.edu/huit
 


 
_______________________________________________
PCN mailing list
PCN@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design

________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design


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D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Don&#8217;t think I had any additional edits, and I agreed with =
pretty much all you said to Phil about his comments. He is probably =
right about clarifying the types of traffic we define in the appendix =
(the bit he had to re-explain to you).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Re your comment RJB 1 in your pdf of Michael&#8217;s edit: we could =
alter &#8220;revert&#8221; which may confuse some people to =
&#8220;effectively downgrades the packet to Not Marked&#8221;, but would =
be happy to stick with revert if no one else has =
views.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also agree with your other comment (not accepting Michael&#8217;s =
reworked paragraph in 4.3).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Toby<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Bob =
Briscoe [mailto:bob.briscoe@bt.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 18 August 2011 =
15:20<br><b>To:</b> Toby Moncaster<br><b>Cc:</b> philip.eardley@bt.com; =
pcn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [PCN] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Toby,<br><br>I was just going to offer, when I saw =
your email.<br>As I have all the edits in foreground memory at the mo, =
I'll do it now.<br><br>If you have any pent up edits since -07, pls send =
the xml. Otherwise I'm going to start from the -07.xml, assuming I can =
find it on your site (or otherwise the data =
tracker).<br><br><br>Bob<br><br>At 11:24 18/08/2011, Toby Moncaster =
wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Bob,<br>&nbsp;<br>Is there any chance you =
will be able to take over the pen for a final round of tweaks now the =
WGLC is over? I&#8217;m going to be fairly busy over the next few =
weeks.<br>&nbsp;<br>Toby<br>&nbsp;<br><b>From:</b> pcn-bounces@ietf.org =
[<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org"> =
mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob =
Briscoe<br><b>Sent:</b> 18 August 2011 11:08<br><b>To:</b> =
philip.eardley@bt.com<br><b>Cc:</b> pcn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[PCN] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>&nbsp;<br>Phil,<br><br>Agree =
with everything. A few reponses inline....<br><br>At 10:03 05/08/2011, =
philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:<br><br>Content-Language: =
en-US<br>Content-Type: =
multipart/alternative;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; =
boundary=3D&quot;_000_9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F32E4B38A1DEMV65UKRD=
doma_&quot;<br><br><a name=3Dsignoff></a>Here are some small comments =
&#8211; the doc looks very good and is ready for IESG i =
think<br>&nbsp;<br>S1<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
baseline encoding defined in<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5696">RFC5696</a>] =
described<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>how<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>two =
PCN&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Delete =
&#8216;baseline&#8217; &#8211; just confusing for people in =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>future<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; This document extends the baseline =
encoding<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>by<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>redefining the =
EXP&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 This document amends the [RFC5696] =
encoding<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>by<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>redefining the =
01<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>(and a =
couple of lines earlier where you mention EXP, add =
that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>this<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>is 01 =
codepoint)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>S2.1<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; =
a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>codepoint<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>that indicates =
packets that<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have been marked at a<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>PCN-interior-nod=
e as a result of an<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indication from the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>threshold-meteri=
ng function<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abbreviated to<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>ThM.&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>I wonder if =
this would be clearer as<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Threshold-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a =
codepoint<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>indicates a =
packet has been threshold-marked, that is =
a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>packet<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>that<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; has been marked at a<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>PCN-interior-nod=
e as a result of an<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indication from the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>threshold-meteri=
ng function<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5670">RFC5670</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Abbreviated to ThM.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>[firstly =
clearer to refer to &#8216;packet&#8217; than &#8216;packets&#8217;, =
secondly<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>uses<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>the term =
&#8216;threshold-marked&#8217; which was defined in =
5559]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Similarly =
for excess-traffic-marked codepoint<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; Not-marked codepoint:&nbsp; a =
codepoint<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>indicates =
PCN-packets but<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that are not PCN-marked.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Abbreviated to =
NM.&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>delete =
&#8216;but&#8217;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>S3<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; A =
PCN-node (i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) =
will<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>be<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>configured =
to<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 recognise certain DSCPs as PCN-compatible.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">Appendix A</a></span> discusses the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 choice of suitable DSCPs.&nbsp; In Figure 1 =
'DSCP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>n'<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>indicates such =
a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the =
PCN-domain,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>any<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>packet carrying =
a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 compatible DSCP is a PCN-packet as =
defined<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a><o:p></o:p></pre><=
pre>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>A PCN-node =
(i.e. a node within a PCN-domain) will =
be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>configured<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>to<o:p></o:p></p=
re><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 recognise certain DSCP(s) as PCN-compatible.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-A">Appendix A</a></span> discusses the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 choice of suitable DSCP(s).&nbsp; In Figure 1 =
'DSCP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>n'<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>indicates such =
a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 compatible DSCP.&nbsp; Within the =
PCN-domain,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>any<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>packet carrying =
a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 compatible DSCP and with the ECN-field =
anything<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>other<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>than 00 =
(Not-PCN) is a PCN-packet as defined in<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5559">RFC5559</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>[DSCPs =
=3D&gt; DSCP(s). And added phrase in =
last<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>sentence]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>&nbsp;<br>4.2<o:p></o:p></p><pre>D=
elete &#8220;the baseline encoding &#8220;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>With =
=3D&gt; that has [a Not-marked codepoint...]<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>4.3<o:p></o:=
p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
For the full 3-in-1 encoding to apply, any =
tunnel<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>endpoints<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(IP-in-IP<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply =
with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>ECN<o:p></o:p></=
pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 encapsulation and decapsulation rules set =
out<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(see<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">Section 4.2</a></span>).&nbsp; There is one exception to this =
rule<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>outlined<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>next.<o:p></o:p>=
</pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>With one =
exception (see next paragraph), any =
tunnel<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>endpoints<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(IP-in-IP<o:p></=
o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 and IPsec) within the PCN-domain MUST comply =
with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>ECN<o:p></o:p></=
pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 encapsulation and decapsulation rules set =
out<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(see<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.2">Section 4.2</a></span>).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>S5<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; As =
mentioned in<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">Section 4.3</a></span> above, all PCN-nodes MUST comply =
with<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a><o:p></o:p></pre><=
pre>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>All =
PCN-nodes MUST comply with<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6040">RFC6040</a>]. =
Since<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN is<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>a new =
capability, this is considered a =
reasonable<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>requirement.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>[note that =
it isn&#8217;t mentioned in<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#sect=
ion-4.3">Section 4.3</a></span> !]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>S5.2.3<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
Observant readers may spot an apparent<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>inconsistency<o:=
p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 between the two following cases. <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">Appendix D</a></span> explains the rationale<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 behind this inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D"><o:p></o:p></a></pre><pre><span class=3DMsoHyperlink><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07#appe=
ndix-D">Appendix D</a></span> explains the rationale for the behaviours =
defined in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>this<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>section.<o:p></o=
:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>[i see no =
reason to worry the average reader with =
talk<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>inconsistency.]<=
o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>S5.3<o:p></o=
:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; marking is used it should treat =
ETM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>as<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>ThM.&nbsp; =
However it SHOULD raise&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 marking is used it SHOULD treat ETM as ThM.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>However it =
SHOULD raise<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>s6.1<o:p></o=
:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
PCN-ingress-<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 nodes ensure that any packets entering =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-domain<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>have the =
ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 field in their outermost IP header set =
to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>appropriate =
PCN<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 codepoint. <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></pre><pre>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>CHANGE TO =
&#8220;appropriate codepoint&#8221; (as it may be appropriate =
to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>set<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>it to 00, which =
isn&#8217;t a PCN codepoint)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>6.2<o:p></o:=
p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Thre =
=3D&gt; there<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>10<o:p></o:p=
></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Criticism =
is misspelt <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Appendix =
A<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>The para =
&#8220;PCN-marking is intended...<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>It =
wasn&#8217;t clear to me whether PCN is operating on =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>whole<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>aggregate of =
classes together, or on each class separately. =
Or<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>whether<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>either is =
possible.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] That depends totally on =
whether the classes are all treated with the same scheduling behaviour. =
If they're all in different queues, PCN cannot be applied to the =
aggregate. If they're all in the same queue, PCN cannot be applied to =
each class =
separately.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>App =
B<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
a.&nbsp; flow signalling associates<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>a.&nbsp; =
flow signalling, which associates<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
Interactive Real-Time,<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Broadcast TV<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>These have =
slightly different names in App A<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
Figure 2: Separation of tunneling and PCN<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>actions<o:p></o:=
p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>=3D&gt; =
tunnelling<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 a) Does not require admission control:<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 b) Requires Admission-control:&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>i think it =
would be helpful to add &#8220;The e2e ECN traffic =
is<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>not<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>treated as =
PCN-traffic&#8221; and &#8220;The e2e ECN traffic is =
treated<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>as<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>PCN-traffic&#822=
1;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] Unclear what you are asking =
for.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places =
this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>traffic<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>in a tunnel =
with a PCN-<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatible =
DSCP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>the outer =
header.&nbsp; The PCN-egress zeroes the<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
ECN-field<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>before<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>decapsulation.<o=
:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The =
PCN-ingress<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>drops<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>CE-marked =
packets and the PCN-egress<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zeros the =
ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>field<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>of all PCN =
packets.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>This =
can&#8217;t be quite right, something like<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress places =
this<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>traffic<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>in a tunnel with, in the =
outer header, a PCN-compatible DSCP =
and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>ECN-field set =
to Not-PCN.&nbsp; The PCN-egress =
zeroes<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(outer) =
ECN-field before decapsulation.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] Surely not. The intention is =
to preserve the ECN field in the inner, and use PCN in the outer over =
the PCN domain. Your proposal would prevent PCN being =
used.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; The PCN-ingress =
drops<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>CE-marked<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>packets and =
otherwise sets the ECN-field to NM, and sets the DCSP =
to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>PCN-compatible =
DSCP [or requires that it&#8217;s already in such =
a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>DSCP??]. The<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>PCN-egress =
zeroes the ECN field of all PCN packets; note this =
turns<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>off<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>e2e =
ECN.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>[note, =
&#8216;zeroes&#8217;]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>[i&#8217;m =
not sure about the last bullet, is this what =
you<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>mean&gt;?]<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] =
Yes<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>You could also =
correct<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>PCN-ingress to =
PCN-ingress-node throughout the =
section;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ditto<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>PCN-egress.<o:p>=
</o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;Note=
 that a PCN interior node may turn<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ECT(0) into ECT(1), which =
would<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>not<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>be compatible =
with the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (currently experimental) =
ECN<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>nonce<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a><o:p></o:p></pre><=
pre>].&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Well a =
PCN-interior-node doesn&#8217;t know about ECT. =
Change<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to:<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Note that a =
PCN-interior-node may change the ECN-field from 10 =
to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>01<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(NM to ThM), =
which would be interpreted by the e2e ECN as a =
change<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>from<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>ECT(0) into =
ECT(1) &#8211;- hence it would not be compatible =
with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(currently =
experimental) ECN nonce<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3540">RFC3540</a>].<o:p></o:p></pre=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>App =
C<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;But<=
o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>[<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5129">RFC5129</a>] =
was<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>written<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>while<o:p></o:p>=
</pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 PCN specifications were in early draft<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>stages&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>The =
&#8216;But&#8217; makes it sound like you&#8217;re updating 5129 (i =
don&#8217;t<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>think<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>you are, if i =
remember right)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] OK. Delete =
'But'.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>ECT(0) =
-&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>NM<o:p></o:p></p=
re><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Etc (all 6 =
bullets need to be changed)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>After the =
last bullet you could add<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&#8220;The =
above sets of codepoints are required for =
every<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>PCN-compatible<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>DSCP.&#8221;<o:p=
></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] =
Yup.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>App =
D<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>In title =
&amp; , Discrepancy -&gt; Difference<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Apparent =
discrepancy -&gt; slight difference<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>(to me, =
discrepancy implies something is wrong)<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] OK, but no =
need to say 'slight', given it's a complete =
reversal.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>&lt;&lt;The behaviour =
with<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>only threshold =
marking keeps to the rule that<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is more severe and must =
never<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>be<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>changed to ThM =
even though<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking =
in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>this<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>case.&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>The =
behaviour with only threshold marking keeps to the =
rule<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>Section 5.2.1 =
that<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is more severe and must =
never<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>be<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>changed to ThM =
(even though<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ETM is not a valid marking =
in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>this<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>case).&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>First =
bullet<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Your =
argument also means that a ThM should be corrected =
to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ETM<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>(since the =
excess-traffic-metering behaviour depends on ETM =
marks<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>on<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>arriving =
packets). At the moment it only gets corrected when =
the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>meter<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>wants to ETM =
mark the pkt. <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>But making =
this correction would require different =
code<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>compared<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>with the =
standard behaviour.<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>Personally =
i&#8217;d just delete the first bullet. If not, make =
it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>second one (as =
it&#8217;s harder to understand)<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>[BB] You're right. I agree we =
should just remove the first bullet.<br>And I suggest we add your =
sentence about requiring different code at the end of the remaining =
bullet.<br><br>Thanks<br><br><br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p=
re>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br>Best =
wishes<br>phil<br>&nbsp;<b>Philip Eardley&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</b><br><b>Research and Technology Strategy<br><br></b>This email =
contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's =
meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not =
the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or =
using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in =
error, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank =
you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.<br>British =
Telecommunications plc<br>Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London =
EC1A 7AJ<br>Registered in England no: 1800000<br>&nbsp;<br><b>From:</b> =
pcn-bounces@ietf.org [<a href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org"> </a><a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott O Bradner<br><b>Sent:</b> 31 July 2011 =
18:38<br><b>To:</b> Toby Moncaster<br><b>Cc:</b> =
pcn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCN] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>&nbsp;<br>sigh - tooooo long a =
IETF meeting&nbsp; :-)<br>&nbsp;<br>Scott<br>&nbsp;<br>On Jul 31, 2011, =
at 6:09 AM, Toby Moncaster wrote:<br><br><br>I'm guessing you mean =
comments by August 15? (otherwise this will be a ~350<br>day =
LC!)<br><br>Toby<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org"> </a><a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:pcn-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On =
Behalf Of<br>Scott O. Bradner<br>Sent: 30 July 2011 20:40<br>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:pcn@ietf.org">pcn@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: [PCN] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>this starts =
a WGLC for draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-07.txt<br>&nbsp;<br>comments =
by July 15 =
please<br>&nbsp;<br>Scott<br>____________________________________________=
___<br>PCN mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:PCN@ietf.org">PCN@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/pcn</a><br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>Scott =
Bradner<br>&nbsp;<br>Harvard University Information =
Technology<br>Security | Policy, Risk &amp; Compliance<br>+1 617 495 =
3864<br>29 Oxford St., Room 407<br>Cambridge, MA 02138<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.harvard.edu/huit">www.harvard.edu/huit</a><br>&nbsp;<b=
r><br><br>&nbsp;<br>_______________________________________________<br>PC=
N mailing list<br>PCN@ietf.org<br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pcn">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/pcn</a><br><br>__________________________________________=
______________________<br>Bob =
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BT Innovate &amp; =
Design<o:p></o:p></p><p>_________________________________________________=
_______________<br>Bob =
Briscoe,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BT Innovate &amp; =
Design<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_010C_01CC5DCF.C9FF7FC0--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Congestion and Pre-Congestion Notific=
ation Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Encoding 3 PCN-States in the IP header using a single DS=
CP
	Author(s)       : Bob Briscoe
                          Toby Moncaster
                          Michael Menth
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-08.txt
	Pages           : 23
	Date            : 2011-08-18

   The objective of Pre-Congestion Notification (PCN) is to protect the
   quality of service (QoS) of inelastic flows within a Diffserv domain.
   The overall rate of the PCN-traffic is metered on every link in the
   PCN domain, and PCN-packets are appropriately marked when certain
   configured rates are exceeded.  Egress nodes pass information about
   these PCN-marks to decision points which then decide whether to admit
   or block new flow requests or to terminate some already-admitted
   flows during serious pre-congestion.

   This document specifies how PCN-marks are to be encoded into the IP
   header by re-using the Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN)
   codepoints within a PCN-domain.  This encoding provides for up to
   three different PCN marking states using a single DSCP: not-marked
   (NM), threshold-marked (ThM) and excess-traffic-marked (ETM).  Hence,
   it is called the 3-in-1 PCN encoding.  This document obsoletes
   RFC5696.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pcn-3-in-1-encoding-08.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
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