From nobody Mon Jan 13 01:42:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9DF612009E for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:42:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sinodun.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1umIYG5Uk3XT for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from balrog.mythic-beasts.com (balrog.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3DA2120096 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:42:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sinodun.com ; s=mythic-beasts-k1; h=To:Date:Subject:From; bh=Y9WIqFSBTVGXNdEQDJuHxW3VoVQjGyex6snHlXmEsvo=; b=Dgey6Hj+wvP4pLJNjyRHVaRT/2 TPUAtMwB1si3ZRSUDAW4VIPr27XwisdgmGDLZqCxfOayfknFT9RItD+moB4mqwxV8097VM/tvmK1e DVAtCkvCt7TFk8lKOlmm+E0WA38uEI5kLC3cVpn9NDVPIm5T/hmdCXaan6mhofL830/GYboGk4K4M 0RZyPzekvyeU0ZV4qVO9BCqEzdqph+r0vnHA9TovYLnnIxgWO8+tec0V+vN3lvTYWmZvIveBoiwe+ HZZAJ511zEdleUkmk2pM/es9n6ehkDZQZt+/5tzuuFrkiO23CjfPQOtKRTB/rsw46iYDKS9wT4hRP Mt9SJlgQ==; Received: from [2a02:8010:6126:0:d9e:32f0:b5d6:bb23] (port=55353) by balrog.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iqwEl-0000Qm-FY for Pearg@irtf.org; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:42:23 +0000 From: Sara Dickinson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:42:14 +0000 To: Pearg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 4 Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Call for adoption: draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting-00 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:42:28 -0000 Hi All,=20 A draft called =E2=80=98Network-Based Website Fingerprinting' = (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting/= ) has been presented twice in PEARG meetings and received positive = feedback at IETF 106. This email starts a two week Call for Adoption of = this document. Please review this draft to see if you think it is suitable for adoption = by PEARG and send comments to the list, clearly stating your view. This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020. Sara.=20= From nobody Mon Jan 13 04:01:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947A41200F3 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 04:01:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8B1l1WNmqp8r for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 04:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E755C1200F4 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 04:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCAFBE2E for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:01:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jpDEl2G6RrNc for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:01:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (unknown [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E050BE20 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:01:34 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1578916896; bh=vXwbnCghoBfRIDfLOQ7zWQBx1J7NOOdK6KUkd7xHXrU=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Xr6GRtH3RicunW/3Aq1kxvYlDuTttkZbpXf3OkCkcauGyzknaqqDxxRPVhpeG0HCt Z4QcQaRjbrFWEsly8Dhmz5UUEoLx8xyyJC2TvJPEpBscY05t8SH1nnSe3LdzMjhl8+ S1OcPKibahF0Kr/CruMo3pozM8cRdeuDYNWuqdHE= To: pearg@irtf.org References: From: Stephen Farrell Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0UNnP5MScr8yDhb3JjjaATdwlMFVcOZ70" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Call for adoption: draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting-00 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:01:43 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0UNnP5MScr8yDhb3JjjaATdwlMFVcOZ70 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="930ZwzIZT79OOAoFj8xquvIiMLCnh4Hi0"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: pearg@irtf.org Message-ID: <9d1434e5-9a2e-6004-9c25-3b105d099e18@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [Pearg] Call for adoption: draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting-00 References: In-Reply-To: --930ZwzIZT79OOAoFj8xquvIiMLCnh4Hi0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F5788C8BA863C22517E624EE" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F5788C8BA863C22517E624EE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 13/01/2020 09:42, Sara Dickinson wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > A draft called =E2=80=98Network-Based Website Fingerprinting' > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinti= ng/) > has been presented twice in PEARG meetings and received positive > feedback at IETF 106. This email starts a two week Call for Adoption > of this document. >=20 > Please review this draft to see if you think it is suitable for > adoption by PEARG and send comments to the list, clearly stating your > view. >=20 > This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020. I did a quick scan and very much support adoption. I plan to give it a more thorough read at some point. Three comments, none of which ought delay adoption: 1. I think it'd be good for the RG to have a discussion about how one might develop section 8 further. That may or may not mean more text for this draft or could result in text that ends up in other drafts or in IETF drafts. Not sure when it'd be best to try start that, but I'm sure the chairs can figure that out. 2. A suggested addition to section 7: What mechanisms to counter WF might make sense for generic libraries (e.g. TLS/HTTP libraries) and HTTP servers? By "generic" here I mean code that doesn't know anything about the resources will be served/consumed. And in saying "mechanisms" I include APIs and controls that turn on or off or configure protocol-level anti-WF schemes. 3. Another suggestion for section 7: How might one provide defenses that are effective for small hosters (as opposed to mega-scale CDNs)? (Note that I didn't follow the references yet, so that could already be covered by some of the cited work - just ignore me if so:-) Cheers, S. >=20 > Sara. >=20 --------------F5788C8BA863C22517E624EE Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nem CP5PMvmh5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kT q0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtE gvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy +pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5 iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9 to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghV B5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5 FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 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h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=m77QTFU4QIJK1xmrEVu77/7dT67pxmCULBATL4mPnvE=; b=o2TdfMsIKUQ0hs7hKjrl78aua6imc2a+j5MIa96t4ovEjvD9X7k/ji1u/2kSUtxWAC BHTWsfUpWLA2IwaW8BT1JxtI/fTBi/LA4p5p7vuekghLZYYWhrk1mUVN7e/GNkndhPpB 5yZDN7+V86Q0L0nqKQEB5LIfK1wPM2hMOr20PqcIHXaAkMPGeaH2vUlHjxqFAvZ8Xl1h qWW2IfbTjdMwvyOjBA/1HTkyCkmDGw/xvot5KAUfTTjOUopsujO/HoZuShWRRgbs9kNi AZJcFR3rOJSyvA62fZYRAPVHPrv8tYV4Lxq66clTSRGG9mYHnyHEotLsICQpbyW1vGfQ 9CnQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=m77QTFU4QIJK1xmrEVu77/7dT67pxmCULBATL4mPnvE=; b=H5Vklw4Py9ANxragPaAvN/QrbNrwx1KouebsGuGPoHnRJBB4ypUKqdyO19WKmW++gb SFExknqP8//0uBQmFqdszBJGgYixvhxya2Fj/75ThN9epcIZrS4yyZCcmnqcov/ssZx8 8nEC+lryrul8GTW5JKT4GBaSyezZXrUOXCX9hutAeEPX0P6hR6dhk1Gp+IxvW6+4IjEP feeKLVKY/JUXz5luUfEmp8PQoznxmedguBrE4C4AKaDsarPn58qgFcmXmXzLD+zJ/agK 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List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 13:15:42 -0000 --00000000000075bc0c059c05456a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am in favor of adoption. On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 4:01 AM Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hiya, > > On 13/01/2020 09:42, Sara Dickinson wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > A draft called =E2=80=98Network-Based Website Fingerprinting' > > ( > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting/= ) > > has been presented twice in PEARG meetings and received positive > > feedback at IETF 106. This email starts a two week Call for Adoption > > of this document. > > > > Please review this draft to see if you think it is suitable for > > adoption by PEARG and send comments to the list, clearly stating your > > view. > > > > This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020. > > I did a quick scan and very much support adoption. I plan > to give it a more thorough read at some point. > > Three comments, none of which ought delay adoption: > > 1. I think it'd be good for the RG to have a discussion > about how one might develop section 8 further. That may > or may not mean more text for this draft or could result > in text that ends up in other drafts or in IETF drafts. > Not sure when it'd be best to try start that, but I'm > sure the chairs can figure that out. > > 2. A suggested addition to section 7: What mechanisms > to counter WF might make sense for generic libraries > (e.g. TLS/HTTP libraries) and HTTP servers? By "generic" > here I mean code that doesn't know anything about the > resources will be served/consumed. And in saying > "mechanisms" I include APIs and controls that turn on > or off or configure protocol-level anti-WF schemes. > > 3. Another suggestion for section 7: How might one > provide defenses that are effective for small hosters > (as opposed to mega-scale CDNs)? (Note that I didn't > follow the references yet, so that could already be > covered by some of the cited work - just ignore me > if so:-) > > Cheers, > S. > > > > > > > Sara. > > > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > --00000000000075bc0c059c05456a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am in favor of adoption.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 4:01= AM Stephen Farrell <stephe= n.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:

Hiya,

On 13/01/2020 09:42, Sara Dickinson wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> A draft called =E2=80=98Network-Based Website Fingerprinting'
> (https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting/)
> has been presented twice in PEARG meetings and received positive
> feedback at IETF 106. This email starts a two week Call for Adoption > of this document.
>
> Please review this draft to see if you think it is suitable for
> adoption by PEARG and send comments to the list, clearly stating your<= br> > view.
>
> This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020.

I did a quick scan and very much support adoption. I plan
to give it a more thorough read at some point.

Three comments, none of which ought delay adoption:

1. I think it'd be good for the RG to have a discussion
about how one might develop section 8 further. That may
or may not mean more text for this draft or could result
in text that ends up in other drafts or in IETF drafts.
Not sure when it'd be best to try start that, but I'm
sure the chairs can figure that out.

2. A suggested addition to section 7: What mechanisms
to counter WF might make sense for generic libraries
(e.g. TLS/HTTP libraries) and HTTP servers? By "generic"
here I mean code that doesn't know anything about the
resources will be served/consumed. And in saying
"mechanisms" I include APIs and controls that turn on
or off or configure protocol-level anti-WF schemes.

3. Another suggestion for section 7: How might one
provide defenses that are effective for small hosters
(as opposed to mega-scale CDNs)? (Note that I didn't
follow the references yet, so that could already be
covered by some of the cited work - just ignore me
if so:-)

Cheers,
S.



>
> Sara.
>
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--00000000000075bc0c059c05456a-- From nobody Tue Jan 14 16:10:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0850120058 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:10:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HLsd75mtolFT for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D58F12002F for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6625A2CF32; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:10:43 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Sara Dickinson Cc: Pearg@irtf.org References: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:10:42 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Sara Dickinson's message of "Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:42:14 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Call for adoption: draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting-00 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 00:10:49 -0000 Sara Dickinson writes: > This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020. I think this is a great document to push forward into documentation and support adopting it. -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Mon Jan 20 08:16:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F2612089B for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 08:16:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=Md9Nv1ZV; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=DkS9kgzm Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 54lR8-0TBqJd for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 08:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A56BB120895 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 08:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0222221ACF for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 11:16:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 20 Jan 2020 11:16:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=iJt9p xaexUrozARJDW002n0ByMCyp5ZYuH+p/9z+/lQ=; b=Md9Nv1ZVodGCk2pvm0kRo BZO1aRRhdR0AcoYqL3ReXKGdJZceniHl6/2PKdW2W20gEj8JsN6vGCj2cC3QGul4 DTQO1+XNJydM68TwaH09dzqs2EkxlreIL8ASRgS0vATfASoGZg0TxPXv8NMlDDM3 vIsQaLwmA6vIF8vpTVpLfWeAS6Y71KRv5LOaFCVT2UVsmdtF7HIxV0VOaepKwYqR zKHDyzgFRcuJlgrWePDq3/M3v4RDoCbCz/YmO+lyeZOP2cJbcUrvmTRo/u9+ZEh+ xqyWhqMB9h37nyZwPtkMo/aiXbXukwC97hyFWEFVNQUSTEpPTC8egrWsfbiff3Jt w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=iJt9pxaexUrozARJDW002n0ByMCyp5ZYuH+p/9z+/ lQ=; b=DkS9kgzm1hEUeAlc81wserINK9kM3Z00LAJ6j27pylbFeXXvLa+X0l1R6 nSwUApRlB/BYY5Ps2l0Ieekd/SKZFanUkgHW8gvdiA8ZUPRMFERVmbZr1Zs5684m g28blcofTmamyelJD08+mSnPd2O+6MLp4l2nbVEbyQhWLoHEU3KA4iEmnJE+cHgl 20LUQJNmPRxfYfGuQ2kcp4M1DQT3EXbqNFP896Hq/V2DTuCTj98fM5rO+m6zUmVm ANorgOCSOU6/CgS00SwvTgxWx/85IUwhpCZSpzx29f/A50lzKG4pnFvfhfAARID3 MbeiSheMv1vwTZ9mz0h+OcCCsyQ5w== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrudeigddvfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqh ertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfvehhrhhishhtohhphhgvrhcuhghoohgufdcuoegtrgif sehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgpd hgihhthhhusgdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgr ihhlfhhrohhmpegtrgifsehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 577233C00A1; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 11:16:27 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-754-g09d1619-fmstable-20200113v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20bb79b9-104b-41cd-b837-997c95ffb7ed@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9d1434e5-9a2e-6004-9c25-3b105d099e18@cs.tcd.ie> References: <9d1434e5-9a2e-6004-9c25-3b105d099e18@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 08:16:06 -0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_adoption=3A_draft-wood-pearg-website-?= =?utf-8?q?fingerprinting-00?= X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 16:16:35 -0000 Hi Stephen, Please see inline below. On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, at 4:01 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >=20 > Hiya, >=20 > On 13/01/2020 09:42, Sara Dickinson wrote: > > Hi All, > >=20 > > A draft called =E2=80=98Network-Based Website Fingerprinting' > > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerpri= nting/) > > has been presented twice in PEARG meetings and received positive > > feedback at IETF 106. This email starts a two week Call for Adoption= > > of this document. > >=20 > > Please review this draft to see if you think it is suitable for > > adoption by PEARG and send comments to the list, clearly stating you= r > > view. > >=20 > > This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020. >=20 > I did a quick scan and very much support adoption. I plan > to give it a more thorough read at some point. >=20 > Three comments, none of which ought delay adoption: >=20 > 1. I think it'd be good for the RG to have a discussion > about how one might develop section 8 further. That may > or may not mean more text for this draft or could result > in text that ends up in other drafts or in IETF drafts. > Not sure when it'd be best to try start that, but I'm > sure the chairs can figure that out. Agreed. I'll spin up a new thread on this topic! > 2. A suggested addition to section 7: What mechanisms > to counter WF might make sense for generic libraries > (e.g. TLS/HTTP libraries) and HTTP servers? By "generic" > here I mean code that doesn't know anything about the > resources will be served/consumed. And in saying > "mechanisms" I include APIs and controls that turn on > or off or configure protocol-level anti-WF schemes. I filed an issue for this:=20 https://github.com/chris-wood/ietf-fingerprinting/issues/2 Would you mind submitting a PR to address this? > 3. Another suggestion for section 7: How might one > provide defenses that are effective for small hosters > (as opposed to mega-scale CDNs)? (Note that I didn't > follow the references yet, so that could already be > covered by some of the cited work - just ignore me > if so:-) The references don't cover this area (well) -- they're mostly focused on= what clients can do with little server assistance. I filed an issue for= this: https://github.com/chris-wood/ietf-fingerprinting/issues/3 As above, would you be open to adding a PR for this? Thanks for the review and feedback! Best, Chris From nobody Tue Jan 21 02:38:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7311200E3 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 02:38:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cgdGkfZQf0VQ for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 02:38:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net (relay1-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.193]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD6F3120091 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 02:38:08 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: 156.106.224.143 Received: from [156.106.224.143] (unknown [156.106.224.143]) (Authenticated sender: amelia@andersdotter.cc) by relay1-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DEA61240009 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:38:05 +0000 (UTC) To: pearg@irtf.org References: Reply-To: amelia.ietf@andersdotter.cc From: Amelia Andersdotter Message-ID: <8db26e2a-de9f-08bf-e822-ea3093dda7cc@andersdotter.cc> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 11:38:04 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US-large Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Call for adoption: draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting-00 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:38:14 -0000 Hi all, I support adoption. Bearing mind Stephen's comments from earlier, there may some work already ongoing in IPSecME: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipsecme-iptfs/ Abstract: "This document describes a mechanism to enhance IPsec traffic flow security by adding traffic flow confidentiality to encrypted IP encapsulated traffic.  Traffic flow confidentiality is provided by obscuring the size and frequency of IP traffic using a fixed-sized, constant-send-rate IPsec tunnel.  The solution allows for congestion control as well." There's also a project in IEEE 802.1 (well, it's starting up at this time) that tries to explore ways of mitigating web traffic fingerprinting by ensuring packet length/timing etc. are homogeneous. It will be covered eventually here: https://1.ieee802.org/security/ best regards, Amelia On 2020-01-13 10:42, Sara Dickinson wrote: > Hi All, > > A draft called ‘Network-Based Website Fingerprinting' (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting/) has been presented twice in PEARG meetings and received positive feedback at IETF 106. This email starts a two week Call for Adoption of this document. > > Please review this draft to see if you think it is suitable for adoption by PEARG and send comments to the list, clearly stating your view. > > This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020. > > Sara. From nobody Tue Jan 21 08:32:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE2D1201AA for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 08:32:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=hFv+9x17; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=gaLkuQV/ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fe2TV5XlzBYP for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 08:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D55471201A3 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 08:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074C722182 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 11:32:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 21 Jan 2020 11:32:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=GSLsX vyqKQ/VZGXDYCzEIfPqSWjwqqP8RaK2OBQtxI0=; b=hFv+9x179JhL30dwxKya1 qV/3OUwMC4GiZMXEx/L0+j6hYZjnUfjWXSKGF/NUgyqhxab7FcHWPBWZ/FbdIw5B T2gOI5FF5oQ0oPXyGurbB6iUr3PGbYj/xlXdHvT2xdlWM8WgiWM2RyM+x60eDjId 7RuNK9MEGKE1ZTHlM5RV1FyuFBIvmEpRKSMx1JERRvATSrpwEHUYgzhf9rg4gPPc zAGik8ziHD/vRRDMYSRphUpSZBwA3YxxJPnoP8EH0ZFj+NOKqgbnGEYYVgVaIwKY aStuEFb1c6yERR+1dybBIZ3VZ8Z/LX7wWjAIg9EoVrbZ4AjMbGixE+slAYclLlIG g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=GSLsXvyqKQ/VZGXDYCzEIfPqSWjwqqP8RaK2OBQtx I0=; b=gaLkuQV/bHOAXr29troMpvUm8FVO1jq2gV9gpNjAr8f0M2rQJ+Jv6swgS qYvm7g9N/GivICO4bIL49FMow2JV4uqYHbVfrqEM5ST5ystYRDAEP93AcDfhcPYG YTq+1XkfFV5JRQVDzAo0wnFoUBiczuqf65S/0i28JB+7I4IIpQWDdGFucxV4syPn dhQpT/e9YLBrYp7VRA1y0uFiKy0HoKsZqQfMTQiJ+lUcofRuPUn3/xRQF2JgXY8t 7lsauGN8piFCahAHXIRPh291SlPhglNyASFw7kD6kYEUp2WZNZggGk39mhDCRIHf Inf8LL/o7AL+TQiC3Pip5oOyj/Fgg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrudekgdekkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqh ertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfvehhrhhishhtohhphhgvrhcuhghoohgufdcuoegtrgif sehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgpd hgihhthhhusgdrtghomhdpihgvvggvkedtvddrohhrghdpihhrthhfrdhorhhgnecuvehl uhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheptggrfieshhgvrg hpihhnghgsihhtshdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8E9B93C00A1; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 11:32:25 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-754-g09d1619-fmstable-20200113v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8db26e2a-de9f-08bf-e822-ea3093dda7cc@andersdotter.cc> References: <8db26e2a-de9f-08bf-e822-ea3093dda7cc@andersdotter.cc> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 08:32:05 -0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_adoption=3A_draft-wood-pearg-website-?= =?utf-8?q?fingerprinting-00?= X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 16:32:35 -0000 On Tue, Jan 21, 2020, at 2:38 AM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > I support adoption. Bearing mind Stephen's comments from earlier, ther= e > may some work already ongoing in IPSecME: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipsecme-iptfs/ Thanks for raising this, Amelia! I filed an issue to cite it accordingly= : https://github.com/chris-wood/ietf-fingerprinting/issues/4 Best, Chris >=20 > Abstract: >=20 > "This document describes a mechanism to enhance IPsec traffic flow > security by adding traffic flow confidentiality to encrypted IP > encapsulated traffic.=C2=A0 Traffic flow confidentiality is provided b= y > obscuring the size and frequency of IP traffic using a fixed-sized, > constant-send-rate IPsec tunnel.=C2=A0 The solution allows for congest= ion > control as well." >=20 > There's also a project in IEEE 802.1 (well, it's starting up at this > time) that tries to explore ways of mitigating web traffic > fingerprinting by ensuring packet length/timing etc. are homogeneous. = It > will be covered eventually here: https://1.ieee802.org/security/ >=20 > best regards, >=20 > Amelia >=20 > On 2020-01-13 10:42, Sara Dickinson wrote: > > Hi All,=20 > > > > A draft called =E2=80=98Network-Based Website Fingerprinting' (https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wood-pearg-website-fingerprinting/) ha= s been presented twice in PEARG meetings and received positive feedback = at IETF 106. This email starts a two week Call for Adoption of this docu= ment. > > > > Please review this draft to see if you think it is suitable for adop= tion by PEARG and send comments to the list, clearly stating your view. > > > > This call for adoption ends on 27th January 2020. > > > > Sara.=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > From nobody Thu Jan 23 17:19:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@irtf.org Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F20120019; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 17:19:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: pearg@irtf.org, irtf-chair@irtf.org, caw@heapingbits.net, pearg-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.116.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <157982879274.22661.18162463643780514306.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 17:19:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] pearg - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 107 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 01:19:53 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Christopher A. Wood, a Chair of the pearg working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Research Group Area Name: IRTF Session Requester: Christopher Wood Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 120 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: hrpc cfrg irtfopen qirg tls git Technology Overlap: dprive mls httpbis quic dnssd saag dnsop People who must be present: Sara Dickinson Christopher A. Wood Shivan Kaul Sahib Resources Requested: Special Requests: We'd like this meeting to take place on Monday or Tuesday, if possible. ---------------------------------------------------------