From nobody Wed Jul 1 10:39:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9975B3A0AAB for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 06:10:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3pzrf4JcYGhO for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 06:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from board.afrinic.net (board.afrinic.net [IPv6:2001:42d0:0:404::83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC95E3A0AA1 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 06:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [102.115.171.75] (port=59744 helo=DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.afrinic.net) by board.afrinic.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jqcVc-0003WN-Oh for pearg@irtf.org; Wed, 01 Jul 2020 17:10:40 +0400 Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200701055337.0d575238@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 06:09:06 -0700 To: pearg@irtf.org From: "S. Moonesamy" In-Reply-To: References: <08f43a37-2b7b-418e-95a8-ed57484c66be@www.fastmail.com> <3eba505f-8e85-472c-b22a-660c6ec697c1@www.fastmail.com> <3ed2d30b-9a8d-432f-273e-f2ca183f0f22@andersdotter.cc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 10:39:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 13:10:49 -0000 Hello, Section 1 of draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-01 states that the "document describes the technical mechanisms that censorship regimes around the world use to block or degrade Internet traffic ..." There is the following statement in Section 3.1: "Regional/Local Internet Registries (RIRs) that issue Route Origination Authorizations (ROAs) to BGP operators can be forced to issue rogue certificates that may allow compromises in confidentiality guarantees". Is there any information about a Regional Internet Registry which was forced the issue a Route Origin Authorization to compromise "confidentiality guarantees"? Regards, S. Moonesamy From mohamed.abomhara@ntnu.no Tue Jun 23 12:31:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355B93A097B for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:31:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pivPNLpRqrcP for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw04.it.ntnu.no (mailgw04.it.ntnu.no [129.241.56.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A3D03A0969 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw04.it.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A95813831CF for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:31:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mailgw04.it.ntnu.no Received: from mailgw04.it.ntnu.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgw04.it.ntnu.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N3QP3NlhW7_I for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:31:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from it-ex17.win.ntnu.no (it-ex17.it.ntnu.no [IPv6:2001:700:300:3::11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgw04.it.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B92013831CE for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:31:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from it-ex22.win.ntnu.no (2001:700:300:3::45) by it-ex17.win.ntnu.no (2001:700:300:3::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.529.5; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:31:43 +0200 Received: from it-ex22.win.ntnu.no ([fe80::9132:777c:fb57:dfe6]) by it-ex22.win.ntnu.no ([fe80::9132:777c:fb57:dfe6%13]) with mapi id 15.02.0529.010; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:31:43 +0200 From: Mohamed Abomhara To: "pearg@irtf.org" CC: Sule Yildirim Yayilgan Thread-Topic: [AIRLEAs] Call for paper: 1st International Workshop on Artificial Intelligence and Robotics for Law Enforcement Agencies Thread-Index: AdZJlMIK/1I4c2VlRBWFeUsiFHsM4w== Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 19:31:43 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, nb-NO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Ntnu-xOriginatingIp: [129.241.34.190] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a84fdf8c8949453eb8c0668eacf8d6b4ntnuno_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 10:39:37 -0700 Subject: [Pearg] [AIRLEAs] Call for paper: 1st International Workshop on Artificial Intelligence and Robotics for Law Enforcement Agencies X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 19:34:07 -0000 --_000_a84fdf8c8949453eb8c0668eacf8d6b4ntnuno_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this announcement. We cordially invite you to attend and submit your papers to the AIRLEAs wor= kshop which will be held in conj= unction with 3rd International Conference on Intelligent Technologies and A= pplications (INTAP'20) on 28th = -30th September, 2020 and hosted by the Norwegian University of Science & = Technology (NTNU), Norway. AIRLEAs and INTAP2020 are organized by NTNU, Gjo= vik, Norway, University of Agder, Norway and Artificial Intelligence Resear= ch Group, IUB. Also, INTAP'20 will be technically sponsored by Springer an= d co-sponsored by IEEE Norway Section. All accepted and presented papers will be published by CCIS-Springer and = indexed in Scopus and Web of Science. Extended version of the selected pap= ers will appear in the special issues of the following peer reviewed journa= ls -- Computers and Electrical Engineering by Elsevier, SAGE Open Journal -= indexed in SCI, Special Collection on Artificial Intelligence for IoT Syst= ems (IJDSN and Scopus Journal of Telecommunication, Electronic and Computer= Engineering (JTEC). Topics of interest for AIRLEAs include, but are not limited to: 1. AI and robotics opportunities for LEAs * Artificial Intelligence and robotics for LEAs in the EU. * Big data, analytics and AI for LEAs. * Human robot interaction. * Computer forensics readiness through Artificial Intelligence. * Forensics data analytics. * Automated reasoning in cybercrime investigations. 1. Policy and regulatory perspective * Perspectives from GDPR and Directive on data protection in law enforc= ement (EU) 2016/680. * Legal, ethical and societal aspects of AI and robotics technologies i= n LEAs. * Integrating law and policy compliance into the development process. * Fairness, accountability, transparency, explainability features etc.. 1. Technical and Organizational Measures for Privacy and Security * Privacy and Data Protection-by-design. * Privacy-enhancing technologies (PETs). * Privacy engineering in AI and robotics technologies. * Privacy engineering and data subject rights. * Privacy or data protection impact assessments in the context of AI an= d robotics technologies. * Partially and Fully Homomorphic Encryption. * Use-Case scenarios with homomorphic encryption libraries (SEAL, HElib= , TFHE). * Privacy and anonymity. 1. Ethical principles and ethical guidelines for the design, use, and op= eration of application * Standards for the Ethics of AI and robotics. * Ethics by Design. * Ethics of algorithms & artificial * Bias in algorithmic decision-making. * Ethics of algorithms & AI. * Ethics of data collection and algorithmic processes. 1. Privacy and security training and education for LEAs * Awareness and effectiveness of educational training. * Policies and procedures training. * Privacy and data privacy awareness Training * Teaching and training privacy engineering. We shall be looking forward to your paper contributions and participation. = We hope that attending the conference and the workshop will provide an oppo= rtunity to meet academic and industry experts to exchange ideas about the l= atest technologies. We are sure that your stay in the beautiful city of Gj= =F8vik will be very pleasant and enjoyable. Best Regards, AIRLEAs & INTAP'20 organizing committee --_000_a84fdf8c8949453eb8c0668eacf8d6b4ntnuno_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,


Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this announcement. <= /span>


We cordially invite you to attend and submit your papers to the AIRLEAs workshop which will be held in conjunction with 3rd International Conference= on Intelligent Technologies and Applications (INTAP'20) =  on 28th -30th  September, 2020 and hosted = by the Norwegian University of Science & Technology (NTNU), Norw= ay. = AIRLEAs and INTAP2020 are organized by NTNU, Gjovik, Norway, University of = Agder, Norway and Artificial Intelligence Research Group, IUB.&n= bsp; Also, INTAP'20 will be technically sponsored by Springer and co-sponso= red by IEEE Norway Section.

 

All accepted and presented papers will be publishe= d by CCIS-Springer and indexed in Scopus and Web of Scie= nce.  Extended version of the selected pap= ers will appear in the special issues of the following peer reviewed journa= ls -- Computers and Electrical Engineering by Elsevier, SAGE Open Journal - in= dexed in SCI, Special Collection on Artificial Intelligence for IoT Systems= (IJDSN and Scopus Journal of Telecommunication, Electronic and Computer Engineering (JTEC)= .

 

Topi= cs of interest for AIRLEAs include, but are not limited to:

  1. AI and robotics opport= unities for LEAs
  • Artificial Intelligence a= nd robotics for LEAs in the EU.
  • Big data, analytics and A= I for LEAs.
  • Human robot interaction.<= o:p>
  • Computer forensics readin= ess through Artificial Intelligence.
  • Forensics data analytics.=
  • Automated reasoning in cy= bercrime investigations.
  1. Policy and regulatory = perspective
  • Perspectives from GDPR an= d Directive on data protection in law enforcement (EU) 2016/680.=
  • Legal, ethical and societ= al aspects of AI and robotics technologies in LEAs.
  • Integrating law and polic= y compliance into the development process.
  • Fairness, accountability,= transparency, explainability features etc..
  1. Technical and Organiza= tional Measures for Privacy and Security
  • Privacy and Data Protecti= on-by-design.
  • Privacy-enhancing technol= ogies (PETs).
  • Privacy engineering in AI= and robotics technologies.
  • Privacy engineering and d= ata subject rights.
  • Privacy or data protectio= n impact assessments in the context of AI and robotics technologies.
  • Partially and Fully Homom= orphic Encryption.
  • Use-Case scenarios with h= omomorphic encryption libraries (SEAL, HElib, TFHE).
    • =
  • Privacy and anonymity.
  1. Ethical principles and= ethical guidelines for the design, use, and operation of application
  • Standards for the Ethics = of AI and robotics.
  • Ethics by Design.
  • Ethics of algorithms &= ; artificial
  • Bias in algorithmic decis= ion-making.
  • Ethics of algorithms &= ; AI.
  • Ethics of data collection= and algorithmic processes.
  1. Privacy and security t= raining and education for LEAs
  • Awareness and effectivene= ss of educational training.
  • Policies and procedures t= raining.
  • Privacy and data privacy = awareness Training
  • Teaching and training pri= vacy engineering.

 

We shall be looking forward to your paper contribut= ions and participation. We hope that attending the conference and the works= hop will provide an opportunity to meet academic and industry experts to exchange ideas about the latest technolog= ies. We are sure that your stay in the beautiful city of Gj=F8vik will be very pleasant and enjoyable.

Best Regards,
AIRLEAs & INTAP’20 organizing committee

 

 

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Moonesamy" , "pearg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" Thread-Index: AQHWTlu2B5pg6PmZEE6Yav+dAms/Z6jwKNRDgALXjtCAAAMArQ== Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 17:51:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <08f43a37-2b7b-418e-95a8-ed57484c66be@www.fastmail.com> <3eba505f-8e85-472c-b22a-660c6ec697c1@www.fastmail.com> <3ed2d30b-9a8d-432f-273e-f2ca183f0f22@andersdotter.cc> , <6.2.5.6.2.20200701055337.0d575238@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200701055337.0d575238@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: afrinic.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;afrinic.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=isoc.org; x-originating-ip: [108.56.212.130] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 728edc72-614d-4127-9bfd-08d81de76c06 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR06MB5413: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 04519BA941 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: yXT4TZIsn5alFW7yfzaNNgJXp3O+zzjrg7D0I1pGy/4JyopgKKzXE3aJSn1AWZNu5Gui2065jdojAlQoTKMhl9bmP+r1B4rhxtICWBsMUX8Jzfey8/5aonZhhU1/3T5EnH3Tx2xCINiD0jboQ3TyuE00h9lcSpKEbakS44NS6jwdvPakwAbVy7FXcpE2TYKM89ArLtVh07XXAcpflk1KpikkXKh5L1TCaAglHd2K2LtuYej7RhZVe/GOenBUCSQogQRVVHiHMJmC4fUnHIR2DHPwWRdoPl9ukHK0GUkafa5Jq1MPdOtdTPNAgOF3eEUZsMaVY8l548R9m2LPTByqKN/zgJCBueceGLvuds/nYnSQb75yzvTLgudlwwo6Ks0kGNcemknWoonXm/V3ZnENTw== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BY5PR06MB6451.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(396003)(39840400004)(346002)(136003)(376002)(366004)(5660300002)(91956017)(110136005)(71200400001)(478600001)(8936002)(52536014)(7696005)(66476007)(64756008)(66556008)(33656002)(66446008)(66946007)(66574015)(186003)(55016002)(76116006)(26005)(19627405001)(9686003)(2906002)(316002)(83380400001)(8676002)(966005)(86362001)(53546011)(6506007)(166002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY5PR06MB6451518B1BEC2EDF9379F657B16C0BY5PR06MB6451namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR06MB6451.namprd06.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 728edc72-614d-4127-9bfd-08d81de76c06 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Jul 2020 17:51:45.8843 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vKgdI70N6E8xtQmutJhr8fhE02E41w+VnWWWv6c6dgD/aS0qlCF3OfSAOtn6LaLq X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR06MB5413 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 17:51:52 -0000 --_000_BY5PR06MB6451518B1BEC2EDF9379F657B16C0BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (I'm slowly getting back into this set of conversations, sorry PEARG! The c= lose of the second quarter is a tough time.) S., are you asking for an example of this happening or for clarification on= how such a thing might compromise such guarantees? I'm not sure if we have= an example but you'll notice that a whole slew of those thing are hypothet= ical in that we haven't seen certain kinds of interventions. ________________________________ From: Pearg on behalf of S. Moonesamy Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 09:09 To: pearg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Ce= nsorship Techniques" Hello, Section 1 of draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-01 states that the "document describes the technical mechanisms that censorship regimes around the world use to block or degrade Internet traffic ..." There is the following statement in Section 3.1: "Regional/Local Internet Registries (RIRs) that issue Route Origination Authorizations (ROAs) to BGP operators can be forced to issue rogue certificates that may allow compromises in confidentiality guarantees". Is there any information about a Regional Internet Registry which was forced the issue a Route Origin Authorization to compromise "confidentiality guarantees"? Regards, S. Moonesamy -- Pearg mailing list Pearg@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg --_000_BY5PR06MB6451518B1BEC2EDF9379F657B16C0BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(I'm slowly getting back into this set of conversations, sorry PEARG! The c= lose of the second quarter is a tough time.)

S., are you asking for an example of this happening or for clarification on= how such a thing might compromise such guarantees? I'm not sure if we have= an example but you'll notice that a whole slew of those thing are hypothet= ical in that we haven't seen certain kinds of interventions.
From: Pearg <pearg-bounc= es@irtf.org> on behalf of S. Moonesamy <sm+sdo@afrinic.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 09:09
To: pearg@irtf.org <pearg@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of = Worldwide Censorship Techniques"
 
Hello,

Section 1 of draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-01 states that the "document =
describes the technical mechanisms that censorship regimes around the
world use to block or degrade Internet traffic ..."  There is the=
following statement in Section 3.1: "Regional/Local Internet
Registries (RIRs) that issue Route Origination Authorizations (ROAs)
to BGP operators can be forced to issue rogue certificates that may
allow compromises in confidentiality guarantees".

Is there any information about a Regional Internet Registry which was
forced the issue a Route Origin Authorization to compromise
"confidentiality guarantees"?

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/pearg
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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eH1wVwAqm98F for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 11:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from board.afrinic.net (board.afrinic.net [IPv6:2001:42d0:0:404::83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B4A63A0BFF for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 11:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [102.115.171.75] (port=57604 helo=DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.afrinic.net) by board.afrinic.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jqhpk-0004x2-9r; Wed, 01 Jul 2020 22:51:48 +0400 Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200701113215.0bf66010@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 11:51:33 -0700 To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall ,pearg@irtf.org From: "S. Moonesamy" References: <08f43a37-2b7b-418e-95a8-ed57484c66be@www.fastmail.com> <3eba505f-8e85-472c-b22a-660c6ec697c1@www.fastmail.com> <3ed2d30b-9a8d-432f-273e-f2ca183f0f22@andersdotter.cc> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701055337.0d575238@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 15:17:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 18:52:06 -0000 Dear Joseph, At 10:51 AM 01-07-2020, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: >(I'm slowly getting back into this set of conversations, sorry >PEARG! The close of the second quarter is a tough time.) Thank you for the quick response. >S., are you asking for an example of this happening or for >clarification on how such a thing might compromise such guarantees? >I'm not sure if we have an example but you'll notice that a whole >slew of those thing are hypothetical in that we haven't seen certain >kinds of interventions. I was asking for an example of it happening. For what it is worth, I read RFC 6482 and I didn't find anything about ROAs being a potential issue. Section 5 of the RFC states that: "There is no assumption of confidentiality for the data in a ROA". I also took a quick look at RFC 6480 in case I missed anything. Where does the "confidentiality guarantees" come from? Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Wed Jul 1 15:17:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C54F53A0E3B for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 15:16:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5edkaFSHoj0a for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 15:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from board.afrinic.net (board.afrinic.net [IPv6:2001:42d0:0:404::83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68FF53A0E37 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 15:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [102.115.171.75] (port=56181 helo=DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.afrinic.net) by board.afrinic.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jql1i-0002F0-WF; Thu, 02 Jul 2020 02:16:23 +0400 Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200701121525.0adc6978@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 15:14:10 -0700 To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall ,pearg@irtf.org From: "S. Moonesamy" In-Reply-To: <44321D58-F56E-47E2-94BF-ED1B7ECA56A7@isoc.org> References: <08f43a37-2b7b-418e-95a8-ed57484c66be@www.fastmail.com> <3eba505f-8e85-472c-b22a-660c6ec697c1@www.fastmail.com> <3ed2d30b-9a8d-432f-273e-f2ca183f0f22@andersdotter.cc> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701055337.0d575238@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701113215.0bf66010@elandnews.com> <44321D58-F56E-47E2-94BF-ED1B7ECA56A7@isoc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 15:17:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 22:16:34 -0000 Dear Joseph, At 11:59 AM 01-07-2020, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: >I think what the wording of the draft is trying=20 >to do there is to point out that if you can=20 >compel a signed route, ASs will tend to start=20 >sending traffic that direction, potentially=20 >compromising the confidentiality and integrity=20 >of the traffic, not the ROA. I'm happy to make=20 >that clear. Also, feel free to push back and say=20 >that it's out of place=85 this ppart is trying to=20 >catalog entities in positions of power that=20 >could affect the ability of two ends to communicate. I'll explain what I understood. Please do=20 correct me if you or anyone believes that it is=20 incorrect: The Introduction section states that=20 the document describes technical mechanisms that=20 censorship regimes around the world use for=20 blocking or impairing Internet traffic. In my=20 opinion, the reader would expect that the points=20 of control (Section 3.1) are/were used for impairing Internet traffic. Section 3 is about the identification of=20 "technical" points of control. One of the=20 examples given is that of a Regional Internet=20 Registry which issues a Route Origination=20 Authorization when it is requested to do so by=20 one of the members of the Registry. The argument=20 is that the Registry can be compelled by law to=20 issue a Route Origination Authorization which is=20 not compliant with its practices. The traffic=20 for the "prefix" would then be redirected to another entity. Given the above, the two ends would not=20 communicate as expected (there are RFCs which=20 discuss end-to-end). Would that happen without a=20 Route Origination Authorization? The example at the end of the paragraph about=20 "Certificate Authorities" mentions "TLS=20 interception". Wouldn't that be detected when=20 the certificate is verified by the receiving side? I suggest reviewing the issue which you described=20 and the text instead of saying that the text is out of place. Regards, S. Moonesamy=20 From nobody Thu Jul 2 17:22:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@irtf.org Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDB83A0A06; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 17:20:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: irtf-chair@irtf.org, pearg@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.7.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159373563596.30173.8133928335142504851@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2020 17:20:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] pearg - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 108 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 00:20:47 -0000 Dear Shivan Sahib, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. pearg Session 1 (1:40 requested) Monday, 27 July 2020, Session I 1100-1240 Room Name: Room 2 size: 2 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/sessions/pearg.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Research Group Area Name: IRTF Session Requester: Shivan Sahib Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 100 Minutes Number of Attendees: None Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: hrpc cfrg irtfopen qirg tls git Technology Overlap: dprive mls httpbis quic dnssd saag dnsop People who must be present: Sara Dickinson Christopher A. Wood Shivan Kaul Sahib Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Jul 2 22:56:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96AC43A0D08 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 22:56:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QrntoVrQxgR2 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 22:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E72633A0D0E for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 22:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:0:35:d4c1:627c:7b6f:56d8] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:0:35:d4c1:627c:7b6f:56d8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 381126139B3 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 08:56:02 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1593755762; bh=wSzlST5bX5JaFjh7VBplA9A9GOOPW1IKj818Xalh08M=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; b=AlZu9Yv7OIQ6IV9bk1Tqtntqn8OaegS2R4s6HP/VIyZ9TInm65Fsb4xji9jsFNFAo 7KxY3yH8tlKj0JTPAz59pMHUwsbgvwmLkeJnSEYsh4tI+sWZVBFgNDFB/ILM/lENeK 67XKLptZPRKB6GWgidd/vMXdQ+yHcv4I27CnQ2+Q= From: Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B164EB85-FC0C-45E6-857D-26109268EF2C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Message-Id: <9708D1EE-9E08-4C4C-B507-89E09B83191B@eggert.org> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 08:56:01 +0300 To: "pearg@irtf.org" X-MailScanner-ID: 381126139B3.AF2A5 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Geneva: Evolving Censorship Evasion X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 05:56:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B164EB85-FC0C-45E6-857D-26109268EF2C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, Dave Levin just shared this presentation on the SIGCOMM slack. I thought = it might be interesting for this group: https://youtu.be/ksojSRFLbBM > Dave Levin 7:58 PM > @here In case anyone is interested in seeing a talk about censorship = evasion, Kevin Bock from UMD will be presenting our work on Geneva, a = genetic algorithm that automatically discovers how to circumvent = nation-state censorship. Livestreaming starting in just a minute at = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DksojSRFLbBM > This is part of the Internet Measurement Village run by the great = folks at OONI. They=E2=80=99ve been extremely supportive in fostering a = community of researchers and activists to investigate and combat = censorship around the world. If you=E2=80=99re at all interested in = getting into that space, joining the OONI slack is a great first step. Lars --Apple-Mail=_B164EB85-FC0C-45E6-857D-26109268EF2C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAl7+yHEACgkQVLXDCb9w wVdirw//a76UO8aIwKFwK/V5o8YIZfrTVJAwhwKcU01ovsrVInZJEwYuO7PhfKdc m4f/tlXSunzIKllOffpps5x032ZU1GKgzOaCOeJ+ryvSQiAQbTOqfj929FGLPx2Z x5I70rFAVlXwJ3e1DebK5NixL9Uj9XmY8mws5JQRuNXxe8GGIDw2RzX91rDoST4R cnyxEpH3bv37vK8ftQB9SmG8dNkNfuGbZF1azaa0hxgGdw73VZk/gg3kPsFGL/Lt FzWwmvXxLcYOo+xRhYJTVFK8vmGn8eLYT3FtR5IFHJ0WrL7n2oreVU/TzzcyLlco 8eRMsFYlhAqTKrIHkiqI/3ckIsp32Yl22WyD+X56F8jMWdPy6mLgpcJaLW6roVXU MR2K+5JMaxhIF6SCZ/Xt+vDgJg3mn7eiLclpnG/Icw0kQro2bxU+6B17+qwEKEjA 53AhkjQtL3ml0KSGufGc4aKmkmcG+HEsWUPk1UcrJVuShE6JpvCcbiFjk1rHRNbX 0aEQP1/1sFsNx9jwR+ozFlLlMb8yfTry6xJ7oXABZ/NY20EUHbfrS8UKHkMB3wF3 HiTV9TSqCQ8bsWI2x4r614n3oxvZTbWvX5uHsUQmZ5mgw8jr3bgHYa7ZYzBpWNeW lE8I9dOKuWi3FzBSaWUNHTBPxS3z2DkEndMldVj8pNNpl3nRNl0= =2AZf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B164EB85-FC0C-45E6-857D-26109268EF2C-- From nobody Mon Jul 13 10:06:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F113A146E for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:06:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gk7VTaOLD0iP for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C1DC3A15A6 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id v8so14281811iox.2 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:05:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=T+nh1cIoBvCbU75OOxYO6xJxHrhQgfx0O7UFo8ZPcQ0=; b=cX3lB/9DAx9koGy8vn4qEHHc9Uhci6r60fbSGbPKY8KjQSoDyu/cHA40Y6Nc3oj9cM VZS5TEFUkCBKR1EnJB6vhXe8ERWdYvdvNC2rRFo2neEVecV0CN5xy/htJf3qjqhB6fNJ 0abTA7QGIGxhYQwiJkKlqwRuariIwyYoog3hsmMi+8tRpQbyKta8UMR5xjQhmzSkFs48 /yumsr7ounE1K0ECJFxkzPSe5FF0mjSD+kX4Cn1n0tyy/+KoQbc94UM3n21aZILYiUZJ L3A0uGm0HIn1lge6y1WpWk+kZJRgkEbhTLtjsN3Hfm7J8KVAXoaBT1de8gdPPr4z3oid +kiQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=T+nh1cIoBvCbU75OOxYO6xJxHrhQgfx0O7UFo8ZPcQ0=; b=FTWtn9wWMF49lqyaJN0w7Q2/Q/KeeN/Hzu5bULR+zq9JclOPj2O0wdmcdezPcWE/6K XTSrm8LuzD24FlsjiEZu84y/WKv4U/JuoYokxxQVJAJVEiBLIpjNlSNV/tGTk/akctdC 97Ema70O8LWJo1Ea7WKstZtA5FxRIulYHJLANGjjAqpvAxiydcV21yQEwUVdP1Y3T/Ep 69kC1fdThd8Mfc1n+QlAqrpN4Aq7B27gtoXZYLHZVYAm5KPn7k8UjGdGi8JldyNLcopH zGYqEhV9u/nGMLiO/zfrtZ37XTPd2lKE0k2bXk0OflkNBe6kzGZrxQVq007AaWi97zLL a2YQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533HoF1QM4eJ+bHMM5RYyxOSnc8+RwEeymJjnSeUJ4t1b19TI7OC l/SeBpGtLbshqaJ/UApdVxVvK7IIWNwsRHeFRMouFVtz X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyTYRjjeJ+Idg/VUhRiRP5IDj3lqm48ucQc2oPrWne4I9REy2SPn9163fwi6tZwxi1TubVUYVii8JkcMiaCqeY= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:d809:: with SMTP id y9mr653153iob.209.1594659939334; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:05:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159465909060.2395.2662052736525113617@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <159465909060.2395.2662052736525113617@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Sandeep Rao Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 22:35:28 +0530 Message-ID: To: pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000038c13505aa55b338" Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-rao-pitfol-02.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:06:44 -0000 --00000000000038c13505aa55b338 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, Here=E2=80=99s updated version of Personal Information Tagging for Logs https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rao-pitfol-02.txt Key updates in this version are: 1. Model for structured logging and use of standardized identifiers for personal information. 2. Illustration of Personal Information Identifiers Registry and associating sensitivity level for each identifier. 3. Role based Redaction and access control 4. Considerations on log transformations and identified ToDo work on handling log privacy changes. Appreciate your review comments and feedback. Thanks -Sandeep ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:21 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-rao-pitfol-02.txt To: Shivan Sahib , Sandeep Rao < sandeeprao.ietf@gmail.com>, Santhosh C N , Ryan Guest A new version of I-D, draft-rao-pitfol-02.txt has been successfully submitted by Sandeep Rao and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-rao-pitfol Revision: 02 Title: Personal Information Tagging for Logs Document date: 2020-07-13 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 11 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rao-pitfol-02.tx= t Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rao-pitfol/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rao-pitfol-02 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rao-pitfol Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-rao-pitfol-02 Abstract: Software systems typically generate log messages in the course of their operation. These log messages (or 'logs') record events as they happen, thus providing a trail that can be used to understand the state of the system and help with troubleshooting issues. Given that logs try to capture state that is useful for monitoring and debugging, they can contain information that can be used to identify users. Personal data identification and anonymization in logs is crucial to ensure that no personal data is being inadvertently logged and retained which would make the logging system run afoul of laws around storing private information. This document focuses on exploring mechanisms that can be used by a generating or intermediary logging service to specify personal or sensitive data in log message(s), thus allowing a downstream logging server to potentially enforce any redaction or transformation. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --00000000000038c13505aa55b338 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,


Here=E2=80=99s updat= ed version of Personal Information Tagging for Logs

= https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rao-pitfol-02.tx= t


Key = updates in this version are:

  1. Model fo= r structured logging and use of standardized identifiers for personal infor= mation.
  2. Illustration of Personal Information= Identifiers Registry and associating sensitivity level for each identifier= .
  3. Role based Redaction and access control
  4. Considerations on log transformations and iden= tified ToDo work on handling log privacy changes.

Appreciate your review comments and feedback.

=


Thanks

-Sandeep



---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: = <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:21 PM
Subject: New Version= Notification for draft-rao-pitfol-02.txt
To: Shivan Sahib <shivankaulsahib@gmail.com>, Sa= ndeep Rao <sandeeprao.ietf@= gmail.com>, Santhosh C N <santoshcn1@gmail.com>, Ryan Guest <rguest@salesforce.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-rao-pitfol-02.txt
has been successfully submitted by Sandeep Rao and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-rao-pitfol
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A002
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Personal Information Tagging for L= ogs
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-07-13
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 11
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rao-pitfol-02.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rao-pitfol/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-rao-pitfol-02
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://da= tatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rao-pitfol
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-rao-pitfol-02

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software systems typically generate log messages in the course= of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0their operation.=C2=A0 These log messages (or 'logs') = record events as
=C2=A0 =C2=A0they happen, thus providing a trail that can be used to unders= tand
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the state of the system and help with troubleshooting issues.= =C2=A0 Given
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that logs try to capture state that is useful for monitoring a= nd
=C2=A0 =C2=A0debugging, they can contain information that can be used to id= entify
=C2=A0 =C2=A0users.=C2=A0 Personal data identification and anonymization in= logs is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0crucial to ensure that no personal data is being inadvertently= logged
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and retained which would make the logging system run afoul of = laws
=C2=A0 =C2=A0around storing private information.=C2=A0 This document focuse= s on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0exploring mechanisms that can be used by a generating or inter= mediary
=C2=A0 =C2=A0logging service to specify personal or sensitive data in log =C2=A0 =C2=A0message(s), thus allowing a downstream logging server to poten= tially
=C2=A0 =C2=A0enforce any redaction or transformation.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--00000000000038c13505aa55b338-- From nobody Mon Jul 13 11:46:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@irtf.org Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0963A16FE; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:46:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: pearg@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.8.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pearg@irtf.org Message-ID: <159466596628.22724.642459259274073600@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:46:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:46:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Research Group RG of the IRTF. Title : A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques Authors : Joseph Lorenzo Hall Michael D. Aaron Stan Adams Amelia Andersdotter Ben Jones Nick Feamster Filename : draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2020-07-13 Abstract: This document describes technical mechanisms censorship regimes around the world use for blocking or impairing Internet traffic. It aims to make designers, implementers, and users of Internet protocols aware of the properties exploited and mechanisms used for censoring end-user access to information. This document makes no suggestions on individual protocol considerations, and is purely informational, intended as a reference. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 13 11:51:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 555CC3A172B for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:51:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isoc.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id utUbkwJhoZF1 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM10-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam10on2066.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.94.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A361A3A1727 for ; 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boundary="_000_BY5PR06MB6451513C274911A1F5897F5CB1600BY5PR06MB6451namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR06MB6451.namprd06.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dbb9677c-2dea-4c21-e7d8-08d8275dbae9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Jul 2020 18:51:19.2366 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: c73yaIWO5h4VlWTrw/qGgtsNJzvIX+cFjUn4bo5cBWD6Jhedct4sBlPjtrqoHROh X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR06MB4903 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:51:25 -0000 --_000_BY5PR06MB6451513C274911A1F5897F5CB1600BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi PEARG! There are still a set of outstanding issues and rather big changes to this = document that I didn't have time to work on before drafts deadline. I'll pl= an on spending some time during our PEARG session talking through some of t= he bigger issues (either in terms of changes or in character). Thanks to Amelia for working hard to get many of the low-hanging fruit deal= t with here! best, Joe ________________________________ From: Pearg on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org = Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 14:46 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: pearg@irtf.org Subject: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Resea= rch Group RG of the IRTF. Title : A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques Authors : Joseph Lorenzo Hall Michael D. Aaron Stan Adams Amelia Andersdotter Ben Jones Nick Feamster Filename : draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2020-07-13 Abstract: This document describes technical mechanisms censorship regimes around the world use for blocking or impairing Internet traffic. It aims to make designers, implementers, and users of Internet protocols aware of the properties exploited and mechanisms used for censoring end-user access to information. This document makes no suggestions on individual protocol considerations, and is purely informational, intended as a reference. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ -- Pearg mailing list Pearg@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg --_000_BY5PR06MB6451513C274911A1F5897F5CB1600BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi PEARG!

There are still a set of outstanding issues and rather big changes to this = document that I didn't have time to work on before drafts deadline. I'll pl= an on spending some time during our PEARG session talking through some of t= he bigger issues (either in terms of changes or in character).

Thanks to Amelia for working hard to get many of the low-hanging fruit deal= t with here!

best, Joe
From: Pearg <pearg-bounc= es@irtf.org> on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@i= etf.org>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 14:46
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: pearg@irtf.org <pearg@irtf.org>
Subject: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt
 

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Resea= rch Group RG of the IRTF.

        Title    &nb= sp;      : A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techni= ques
        Authors    &= nbsp;    : Joseph Lorenzo Hall
            &nb= sp;            = Michael D. Aaron
            &nb= sp;            = Stan Adams
            &nb= sp;            = Amelia Andersdotter
            &nb= sp;            = Ben Jones
            &nb= sp;            = Nick Feamster
        Filename    =     : draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt
        Pages    &nb= sp;      : 37
        Date    &nbs= p;       : 2020-07-13

Abstract:
   This document describes technical mechanisms censorship regime= s
   around the world use for blocking or impairing Internet traffi= c.  It
   aims to make designers, implementers, and users of Internet pr= otocols
   aware of the properties exploited and mechanisms used for cens= oring
   end-user access to information.  This document makes no s= uggestions
   on individual protocol considerations, and is purely informati= onal,
   intended as a reference.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
http= s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04<= /a>

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04<= br>

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet= -drafts/


--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--_000_BY5PR06MB6451513C274911A1F5897F5CB1600BY5PR06MB6451namp_-- From nobody Mon Jul 13 12:59:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A103A07CB for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:59:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=salesforce.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n4-Q9Tousdsm for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12a.google.com (mail-il1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DF853A0883 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id t27so12265687ill.9 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:59:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salesforce.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UACxTmlZoELNeGs0MI0UQ4zw0PHCcGLOF9f1+mb3sDU=; b=afPOAg6M7i5Lv9dFc73/kklxJZ+043RnonKgrB1BHsSs7nJLRqCo/gAKrfQRmp57OW OXK6IfELjYmarflJKcpHNH4JVJkurS1FB72XYo+zfhF5YcDTGjC9GH27Tc/KWzFShukW ergWIJ9HgOQbkYarDuTucwcKemoOyQsXwDZEs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UACxTmlZoELNeGs0MI0UQ4zw0PHCcGLOF9f1+mb3sDU=; b=XiyIMLBZlzTBYhykycD3t6lqa8BPUwQpMxOvcOIOSSX0rQq/mBWlNy0vsgNCFz+FtD HkI/PezEB6abmlfBNnEW5KunartHxI6TCoT7eZitqcWFbEPn6NmktiAheU3YyYuUyOTN r0QwYW1kGItzkj3NqRZKWOLRfgdontOGWfkJD/ekgBxcm24OLUEmkFJ6pTsoUzTXa0/j hs32PhVW5KVt/tmBVWJ7UpydrhdybhHpqmEIxTm4WkNIkCDhMJJ871Ku+OkvzkB7gcW7 bs3ZuzQiWgNJbu+k/s5TdS6qEFzuUFyo8JN4hkAW3WZX24K3MI45MRuDFRYYRHjYRxE0 YZhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Ne6+oONcUe3rn9hEbrukXrYRIpAjzti45HIaIJfHdy0BUVZFR SW2kp/vbncU45Wom+N1jGyDMOpZrVkomgk2863uEzg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7znckgjriF2FgBcQUQvKyx5lMUxtYm4POrwJd+3Ixb5ArqUp7nOVQsBXLkBDR/DVPbb2WgKLqIT2JyTwQUl8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:5c4:: with SMTP id l4mr1384211ils.209.1594670380657; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:59:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159466596628.22724.642459259274073600@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Shivan Sahib Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:59:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall Cc: "pearg@irtf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000092e3a005aa5821d0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:59:49 -0000 --00000000000092e3a005aa5821d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Joe, I added draft censorship to the prelim agenda (that we will publish soon!) On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:51 AM Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: > Hi PEARG! > > There are still a set of outstanding issues and rather big changes to this > document that I didn't have time to work on before drafts deadline. I'll > plan on spending some time during our PEARG session talking through some of > the bigger issues (either in terms of changes or in character). > > Thanks to Amelia for working hard to get many of the low-hanging fruit > dealt with here! > > best, Joe > ------------------------------ > *From:* Pearg on behalf of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > *Sent:* Monday, July 13, 2020 14:46 > *To:* i-d-announce@ietf.org > *Cc:* pearg@irtf.org > *Subject:* [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Privacy Enhancements and Assessments > Research Group RG of the IRTF. > > Title : A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques > Authors : Joseph Lorenzo Hall > Michael D. Aaron > Stan Adams > Amelia Andersdotter > Ben Jones > Nick Feamster > Filename : draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt > Pages : 37 > Date : 2020-07-13 > > Abstract: > This document describes technical mechanisms censorship regimes > around the world use for blocking or impairing Internet traffic. It > aims to make designers, implementers, and users of Internet protocols > aware of the properties exploited and mechanisms used for censoring > end-user access to information. This document makes no suggestions > on individual protocol considerations, and is purely informational, > intended as a reference. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > --00000000000092e3a005aa5821d0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Joe, I added draft censorship to the prelim agenda = (that we will publish soon!)

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:51 AM Joseph Loren= zo Hall <hall@isoc.org> wrote:
Hi PEARG!

There are still a set of outstanding issues and rather big changes to this = document that I didn't have time to work on before drafts deadline. I&#= 39;ll plan on spending some time during our PEARG session talking through s= ome of the bigger issues (either in terms of changes or in character).

Thanks to Amelia for working hard to get many of the low-hanging fruit deal= t with here!

best, Joe
Fro= m: Pearg <pearg-bounces@irtf.org> on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf= .org>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 14:46
To: i-d-a= nnounce@ietf.org <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: pearg@irtf.o= rg <pearg@irtf.o= rg>
Subject: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt
=C2=A0

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Resea= rch Group RG of the IRTF.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techni= ques
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Joseph Lorenzo Hall
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Michael D. Aaron
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Stan Adams
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Amelia Andersdotter
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Ben Jones
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Nick Feamster
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 37
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2020-07-13

Abstract:
=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document describes technical mechanisms censorship regime= s
=C2=A0=C2=A0 around the world use for blocking or impairing Internet traffi= c.=C2=A0 It
=C2=A0=C2=A0 aims to make designers, implementers, and users of Internet pr= otocols
=C2=A0=C2=A0 aware of the properties exploited and mechanisms used for cens= oring
=C2=A0=C2=A0 end-user access to information.=C2=A0 This document makes no s= uggestions
=C2=A0=C2=A0 on individual protocol considerations, and is purely informati= onal,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 intended as a reference.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-pearg-censorsh= ip/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-pe= arg-censorship-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-irtf-pearg-= censorship-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp= .ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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--00000000000092e3a005aa5821d0-- From nobody Wed Jul 15 10:57:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A243A07C2 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:57:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=salesforce.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ocdPIzjPzVKQ for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAB4D3A00C9 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id a11so2792196ilk.0 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:57:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salesforce.com; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Iq5xWEO8PTolxx7Hb4c43lyY5AFn7gQxa38H4sJK8P4=; b=aOC0TKbmDgDtC4pxeJrR2iCEjZJQKyDiEFplH3jz/IV1ik3/Jy128nxAdLctJ1HJIS iKWJssEbFQkyiS6j0d6NbXc+wzf5yPSshA//3lQChyF8gUFqVxCn6EoApEAhuZqagFKU vcrTGqc8E4zSO5f/CA0kL7JjazRXw4sLirT4U= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Iq5xWEO8PTolxx7Hb4c43lyY5AFn7gQxa38H4sJK8P4=; b=qcNd34+eE8IXOM6ROyDdtJIbNVsIqrxUTW/i5k2wQSD7NKgTlrpBFnd1/cEn/WmUyM TEWk+ci5hdMhfqEnyTmW7SScP8kwSlrFISxFc8apBb808+3u8d8JHSVUNpXvWvSBTxmN aP9peBy/Q+Y+HQGC5k2+cCPazPtzYZkxQqjepCMd9Bb1LpVSp0ZlZcvkOh3vB5WqCqL1 ta4CJ9jxj19mKEdJE+I7KLGFFsF+kJvbFAq1wCCp6waTDJDzr5Af06JF3GsY55mr48Gh ZG2KB7EZ1KZXHp2kRG13A33OFwWUi9RNBjTh9Qf2zhFV7gcJTbNv/aj6osQrOiYSbeRs Vb8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530gimNsk5iuv26tqVYEfrjJKuKtDSRoJVSIOk6k2Etl9e/zthel RgwnGPs21ZLtUAEmmQJZ6McTx7oKu7FV3k9H5BwpB8jVXQHakA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxv9le0i9fSg67u2Ziioq01w9V8hSyWKPAHhvyGyEPo+ynexIzS/Wvedh1TOwoi3rmckFnwf8hRqKWhHXYyR0U= X-Received: by 2002:a92:b618:: with SMTP id s24mr685367ili.39.1594835828365; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:57:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Shivan Sahib Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:56:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000692cc05aa7ea7d8" Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Draft agenda for IETF 108 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 17:57:11 -0000 --0000000000000692cc05aa7ea7d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, Draft agenda for PEARG is up: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/materials/agenda-108-pearg --0000000000000692cc05aa7ea7d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0all,

--0000000000000692cc05aa7ea7d8-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 08:21:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A2B3A0A93 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9QQPG8tzWXDJ for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (mx4.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:2::4:12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3026D3A0A4A for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CE872801BC; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:21:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 500) id 366ED28051E; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:21:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay01.prive.nic.fr (unknown [10.1.50.11]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB812801BC; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:21:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from b12.nic.fr (b12.tech.ipv6.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:1348:7::86:133]) by relay01.prive.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B8864C6C03; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:21:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by b12.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BA31546C6C; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:21:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:21:04 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall Cc: "pearg@irtf.org" Message-ID: <20200721152104.GA26448@nic.fr> References: <159466596628.22724.642459259274073600@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 10.4 X-Kernel: Linux 4.19.0-9-amd64 x86_64 X-Charlie: Je suis Charlie Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.033310, version=1.2.2 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.0.2142326, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2019.11.5.63017 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:21:11 -0000 On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 06:51:19PM +0000, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote a message of 238 lines which said: > Title : A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques > Filename : draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt A general issue with drafts dealing with current techniques is that it is hard to stay up-to-date (a reason to publish rapidly). For instance: > For example, a censor could block the default HTTPS port, port 443, > thereby forcing most users to fall back to HTTP. Is it still true today? With HSTS (RFC 6797) and many Web sites redirecting unconditionnaly from http: to https: I wonder if it could still be used. Also: > When in-window sequencing is allowed, it is trivial to conduct a > Blind RST Injection: Trivial may be too strong, if RFC 5961 is used. Referring to RFC 5961, section 5.1 may be a good idea (the draft mentions a fixed number of possible windows, which does not seem true). > while the term "blind" injection implies the censor doesn't know any > sensitive (encrypted) ? "blind" refers to being off-path, it has nothing to do with encryption. > authoritative resolvers There is no such thing as an authoritative resolver. Either it is a resolver, or it is an authoritative name server. (Source: RFC 8499, section 6) Editorial: > This in-window recommendation is important, as if it is implemented > it allows for successful Blind RST Injection attacks [Netsec-2011]. Not clear. > [Bortzmayer-2015] > Bortzmayer, S., "DNS Censorship (DNS Lies) As Seen By RIPE > Atlas", 2015, It's Bortzmeyer :-) > [Zmijewski-2014] > Zmijewski, E., "Turkish Internet Censorship Takes a New > Turn", 2014, internet-censorship/>. Moved (without a redirect) with all the Renesys content, after being bought by Oracle. It is now From nobody Tue Jul 21 08:55:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 341D43A0B4A for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:55:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FBzioeg__B-r for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (mx4.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:2::4:12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 614363A0B48 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CD0228018B; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:55:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 500) id 366C42802B2; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:55:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay01.prive.nic.fr (relay01.prive.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:15::11]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB6B28018B; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:55:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from b12.nic.fr (b12.users.prive.nic.fr [10.10.86.133]) by relay01.prive.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id F243F64C6C03; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:55:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by b12.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C96E446C6C; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:55:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:55:32 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall Cc: "pearg@irtf.org" Message-ID: <20200721155532.GA29204@nic.fr> References: <159466596628.22724.642459259274073600@ietfa.amsl.com> <20200721152104.GA26448@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200721152104.GA26448@nic.fr> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 10.4 X-Kernel: Linux 4.19.0-9-amd64 x86_64 X-Charlie: Je suis Charlie Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Bogosity: Unsure, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.493265, version=1.2.2 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.0.2142326, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2019.11.5.63017 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:55:37 -0000 On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 05:21:04PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote a message of 66 lines which said: > > [Zmijewski-2014] > > Zmijewski, E., "Turkish Internet Censorship Takes a New > > Turn", 2014, > internet-censorship/>. > > Moved (without a redirect) with all the Renesys content, after being > bought by Oracle. It is now > Speaking of bibliography, there are also a few URLs to change: > [Bentham-1791] > Bentham, J., "Panopticon Or the Inspection House", 1791, > Panopticon_Or_the_Inspection_House.html>. Not found. Probably > [Cowie-2011] > Cowie, J., "Egypt Leaves the Internet", 2011, > internet/>. Moved without redirect. Did not find a copy but there are these slides > [Cowie-2011b] > Cowie, J., "Libyan Disconnect", 2011, > . Moved without redirect. > [Dalek-2013] > Dalek, J., "A Method for Identifying and Confirming the > Use of URL Filtering Products for Censorship", 2013, > dalek.pdf>. Not found. Use instead (probably more stable) > [Johnson-2010] > Johnson, L., "Torture feared in arrest of Iraqi blogger", > 2011, feared-in-arrest-of-iraqi-blogger/>. Default Web page, probably the Seattle Post Globe disappeared? 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boundary="_000_BY5PR06MB6451329F43F055AE6DFD76E8B1780BY5PR06MB6451namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR06MB6451.namprd06.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f019de92-abbd-4309-9ca2-08d82d8fc0f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Jul 2020 16:04:31.1912 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: dvv8Hw0xSpqYVy+2WKRZR2KASK+lw1MtmQJtTIdyisJvGU7ckQiS0Ee9AhF3Ow55 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR06MB6813 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:04:43 -0000 --_000_BY5PR06MB6451329F43F055AE6DFD76E8B1780BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Stephane! Will work on that -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall, Senior Vice President, Strong Internet hall@isoc.org | +1-703-483-9504 internetsociety.org | @internetsociety pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key 3CA28D7B9F6DDBD34B1016075F86698740A9A871 ________________________________ From: Stephane Bortzmeyer Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:55:32 AM To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall Cc: pearg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 05:21:04PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote a message of 66 lines which said: > > [Zmijewski-2014] > > Zmijewski, E., "Turkish Internet Censorship Takes a New > > Turn", 2014, > internet-censorship/>. > > Moved (without a redirect) with all the Renesys content, after being > bought by Oracle. It is now > Speaking of bibliography, there are also a few URLs to change: > [Bentham-1791] > Bentham, J., "Panopticon Or the Inspection House", 1791, > Panopticon_Or_the_Inspection_House.html>. Not found. Probably > [Cowie-2011] > Cowie, J., "Egypt Leaves the Internet", 2011, > internet/>. Moved without redirect. Did not find a copy but there are these slides > [Cowie-2011b] > Cowie, J., "Libyan Disconnect", 2011, > . Moved without redirect. > [Dalek-2013] > Dalek, J., "A Method for Identifying and Confirming the > Use of URL Filtering Products for Censorship", 2013, > dalek.pdf>. Not found. Use instead (probab= ly more stable) > [Johnson-2010] > Johnson, L., "Torture feared in arrest of Iraqi blogger", > 2011, feared-in-arrest-of-iraqi-blogger/>. Default Web page, probably the Seattle Post Globe disappeared? --_000_BY5PR06MB6451329F43F055AE6DFD76E8B1780BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you, Stephane! Will work on that

--
Joseph Lorenzo Hall, Senior Vice President, = Strong Internet
hall@isoc.org | +1-703-483-9504
internetsociety.org | @internetsociety
pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
3CA28D7B9F6DDBD34B1016075F86698740A9A871
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer &= lt;bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:55:32 AM
To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <hall@isoc.org>
Cc: pearg@irtf.org <pearg@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt<= /font>
 
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 05:21:04PM +0200,
 Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote
 a message of 66 lines which said:

> > [Zmijewski-2014]
> >           =    Zmijewski, E., "Turkish Internet Censorship Takes a New > >           =    Turn", 2014, <http://www.renesys.com/= 2014/03/turkish-
> >           =    internet-censorship/>.
>
> Moved (without a redirect) with all the Renesys content, after being > bought by Oracle. It is now
> <https://blogs.oracle.com/internetintel= ligence/turkish-internet-censorship-takes-a-new-turn>

Speaking of bibliography, there are also a few URLs to change:

>  [Bentham-1791]
>            = ;  Bentham, J., "Panopticon Or the Inspection House", 1791,<= br> >            = ;  <https://books.google.com/books/about/
>            = ;  Panopticon_Or_the_Inspection_House.html>.

Not found. Probably <https://books.google.fr/books?id=3DEc4TAAAAQAAJ>

>   [Cowie-2011]
>            = ;  Cowie, J., "Egypt Leaves the Internet", 2011,
>            = ;  <http://www.renesys.com/2011/01/egypt-leaves-th= e-
>            = ;  internet/>.

Moved without redirect. Did not find a copy but there are these slides
<https://archive.nanog.or= g/meetings/nanog51/presentations/Tuesday/LT-Cowie-Egypt%20Leaves%20The%20In= ternet.pdf>

> [Cowie-2011b]
>            = ; Cowie, J., "Libyan Disconnect", 2011,
>            = ;  <http://www.renesys.com/2011/02/libyan-disconnect-1/>.

Moved without redirect.

> [Dalek-2013]
>            = ;  Dalek, J., "A Method for Identifying and Confirming the
>            = ;  Use of URL Filtering Products for Censorship", 2013,
>            = ;  <http://www.cs.stonybrook.edu/~phillipa/papers/= imc112s-
>            = ;  dalek.pdf>.

Not found. Use instead
<http://conferences.sigcomm.org/imc/2013/papers/imc112s-dalekA.pdf> (probably more stable)

>  [Johnson-2010]
>            = ;  Johnson, L., "Torture feared in arrest of Iraqi blogger",=
>            = ;  2011, <http://seattlepostglobe.org/2010/02/05/t= orture-
>            = ;  feared-in-arrest-of-iraqi-blogger/>.

Default Web page, probably the Seattle Post Globe disappeared?

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Moonesamy" , "pearg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" Thread-Index: AQHWT/VFM6Ff4wrvvUehNqllZogwyKkV2o+e Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 22:05:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <08f43a37-2b7b-418e-95a8-ed57484c66be@www.fastmail.com> <3eba505f-8e85-472c-b22a-660c6ec697c1@www.fastmail.com> <3ed2d30b-9a8d-432f-273e-f2ca183f0f22@andersdotter.cc> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701055337.0d575238@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701113215.0bf66010@elandnews.com> <44321D58-F56E-47E2-94BF-ED1B7ECA56A7@isoc.org>, <6.2.5.6.2.20200701121525.0adc6978@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200701121525.0adc6978@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: afrinic.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;afrinic.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=isoc.org; x-originating-ip: [108.56.212.130] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ea096292-c116-4ce4-edc5-08d82f5490bb x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR06MB5957: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: nMubwJJa6HiZ5TAr24t0Z8L4Fq7c8HJmJMSwyQ0tTu0FHZGEUj2NaWOlbZ36Xaja+EnUGeZk3RzE57VjCza6rWY/o+dv+XjQAkfrOb75q6dOE4DUJj6UlOL848G/HSl6l4Svi1sboKq5zLljnxr0IC90WJdNS9m3fI1zf/dvo4P+OOdEE/zZJycM59343in+A4uMAOCAmfzeJifFMh2KBj3fMqVMwiV32y1oX3WBi7cscAuXLvvWVMStY660hUggIHazpos+1fGUR8g0Xo5yh0rVivbBgenDTLZTKPy5XbTiw04HBRtbd5P7CO3CuHYGPafIJAMqMepyfFkZpEgrKA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BY5PR06MB6451.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(346002)(366004)(39850400004)(376002)(396003)(136003)(86362001)(186003)(7696005)(2906002)(19627405001)(9686003)(52536014)(53546011)(83380400001)(26005)(6506007)(110136005)(66574015)(8936002)(5660300002)(316002)(66556008)(66446008)(8676002)(91956017)(71200400001)(76116006)(55016002)(66476007)(66946007)(33656002)(478600001)(64756008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY5PR06MB645151E45BFA2465AB5AB5C8B1760BY5PR06MB6451namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR06MB6451.namprd06.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ea096292-c116-4ce4-edc5-08d82f5490bb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jul 2020 22:05:52.3534 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: +g9cPTI3kf/lJhSGDDop9xumpfVfzoN7fgezwZ3uipbr/i63PEoEt/iqKMwYzM+i X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR06MB5957 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 22:05:56 -0000 --_000_BY5PR06MB645151E45BFA2465AB5AB5C8B1760BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, sorry for not following up sooner (going through things making slides f= or next Monday!). I'm unclear as to what you'd like the draft to say differently here. Happy = to work on making it more clear but I think what you've outlined is what I = understand the ability for an RIR to be compelled to sign routes that misdi= rect traffic. best, Joe ________________________________ From: S. Moonesamy Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 18:14 To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall ; pearg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Ce= nsorship Techniques" Dear Joseph, At 11:59 AM 01-07-2020, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: >I think what the wording of the draft is trying >to do there is to point out that if you can >compel a signed route, ASs will tend to start >sending traffic that direction, potentially >compromising the confidentiality and integrity >of the traffic, not the ROA. I'm happy to make >that clear. Also, feel free to push back and say >that it's out of place=85 this ppart is trying to >catalog entities in positions of power that >could affect the ability of two ends to communicate. I'll explain what I understood. Please do correct me if you or anyone believes that it is incorrect: The Introduction section states that the document describes technical mechanisms that censorship regimes around the world use for blocking or impairing Internet traffic. In my opinion, the reader would expect that the points of control (Section 3.1) are/were used for impairing Internet traffic. Section 3 is about the identification of "technical" points of control. One of the examples given is that of a Regional Internet Registry which issues a Route Origination Authorization when it is requested to do so by one of the members of the Registry. The argument is that the Registry can be compelled by law to issue a Route Origination Authorization which is not compliant with its practices. The traffic for the "prefix" would then be redirected to another entity. Given the above, the two ends would not communicate as expected (there are RFCs which discuss end-to-end). Would that happen without a Route Origination Authorization? The example at the end of the paragraph about "Certificate Authorities" mentions "TLS interception". Wouldn't that be detected when the certificate is verified by the receiving side? I suggest reviewing the issue which you described and the text instead of saying that the text is out of place. Regards, S. Moonesamy --_000_BY5PR06MB645151E45BFA2465AB5AB5C8B1760BY5PR06MB6451namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, sorry for not following up sooner (going through things making slides f= or next Monday!).

I'm unclear as to what you'd like the draft to say differently here. Happy = to work on making it more clear but I think what you've outlined is what I = understand the ability for an RIR to be compelled to sign routes that misdi= rect traffic. best, Joe
From: S. Moonesamy <sm+s= do@afrinic.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 18:14
To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <hall@isoc.org>; pearg@irtf.org <pe= arg@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of = Worldwide Censorship Techniques"
 
Dear Joseph,
At 11:59 AM 01-07-2020, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
>I think what the wording of the draft is trying
>to do there is to point out that if you can
>compel a signed route, ASs will tend to start
>sending traffic that direction, potentially
>compromising the confidentiality and integrity
>of the traffic, not the ROA. I'm happy to make
>that clear. Also, feel free to push back and say
>that it's out of place=85 this ppart is trying to
>catalog entities in positions of power that
>could affect the ability of two ends to communicate.

I'll explain what I understood.  Please do
correct me if you or anyone believes that it is
incorrect:  The Introduction section states that
the document describes technical mechanisms that
censorship regimes around the world use for
blocking or impairing Internet traffic.  In my
opinion, the reader would expect that the points
of control (Section 3.1) are/were used for impairing Internet traffic.

Section 3 is about the identification of
"technical" points of control.  One of the
examples given is that of a Regional Internet
Registry which issues a Route Origination
Authorization when it is requested to do so by
one of the members of the Registry.  The argument
is that the Registry can be compelled by law to
issue a Route Origination Authorization which is
not compliant with its practices.  The traffic
for the "prefix" would then be redirected to another entity.

Given the above, the two ends would not
communicate as expected (there are RFCs which
discuss end-to-end).  Would that happen without a
Route Origination Authorization?

The example at the end of the paragraph about
"Certificate Authorities" mentions "TLS
interception".  Wouldn't that be detected when
the certificate is verified by the receiving side?

I suggest reviewing the issue which you described
and the text instead of saying that the text is out of place.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

--_000_BY5PR06MB645151E45BFA2465AB5AB5C8B1760BY5PR06MB6451namp_-- From nobody Thu Jul 23 15:58:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48E63A0814 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:57:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7B8LGSZO-wFZ for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from board.afrinic.net (board.afrinic.net [IPv6:2001:42d0:0:404::83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A2AC3A0813 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [102.116.71.191] (port=54136 helo=DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.afrinic.net) by board.afrinic.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jyk9t-0006jD-7J; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 02:57:49 +0400 Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200723152222.0b0e8880@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:55:01 -0700 To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall ,pearg@irtf.org From: "S. Moonesamy" References: <08f43a37-2b7b-418e-95a8-ed57484c66be@www.fastmail.com> <3eba505f-8e85-472c-b22a-660c6ec697c1@www.fastmail.com> <3ed2d30b-9a8d-432f-273e-f2ca183f0f22@andersdotter.cc> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701055337.0d575238@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701113215.0bf66010@elandnews.com> <44321D58-F56E-47E2-94BF-ED1B7ECA56A7@isoc.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20200701121525.0adc6978@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for "A Survey of Worldwide Censorship Techniques" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 22:58:00 -0000 Dear Joe, At 03:05 PM 23-07-2020, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: >Hi, sorry for not following up sooner (going through things making >slides for next Monday!). > >I'm unclear as to what you'd like the draft to say differently here. >Happy to work on making it more clear but I think what you've >outlined is what I understand the ability for an RIR to be compelled >to sign routes that misdirect traffic. best, Joe I provided an opinion of the technical aspects based on my understanding of how RPKI and TLS works. RFC 8446 describes the properties of the secure channel defined in that document and states that "These properties should be true even in the face of an attacker who has complete control of the network ..." My reading of the text in Section 3 is that those properties (Authentication, Confidentiality, Integrity) would no longer be true if a route was incorrectly "signed". I would suggest verifying whether my interpretation (please see above) is correct or not. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Fri Jul 24 02:51:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3086D3A0F2E; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 02:50:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sinodun.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ub4cWSVMc7Yg; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 02:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balrog.mythic-beasts.com (balrog.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E3D53A0EBF; 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d=sinodun.com ; s=mythic-beasts-k1; h=To:Date:Subject:From; bh=83MsWKXuKK49uGu+ML5a5az+kilp1lTznVsY5B6lU+I=; b=POw0wv0IG+rncxgKzB+TvustiV Lxba0xbtHRO+Rqp3eoUtoSdkIelCDsO8sObgr6kJTj0Gb0kcHfGDFF8gSzIb9BKdZhA0utQ15IAEU tXhsfT4Fqb2AuSqOSu2PSmzIHNEzBuCEcnv3cVRj7sQ2Q200+4zqd9+hKGArH39OG3TdmN5GGDPnm Hk+EahGv63SCtSCZhXttbtR6w+226xcMNA2e6r0XCaJiJbkzYKCN3YNzgfaxi6UB1Z+O215ZZIhaO xsU466xbOrereUzXoHjDAFx8ZCd4eBjoJfd9mdvnfPn6aFKT0P5vz1aV5g2ZKP9V1ARgSQ/2McLQC A1VHuzTw==; Received: from [2a02:8010:6126:0:a1d5:b82:65ee:7686] (port=63258) by balrog.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1jyuXc-0002cE-Tq for Pearg@irtf.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:03:05 +0100 From: Sara Dickinson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.15\)) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:03:00 +0100 References: To: Pearg@irtf.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.15) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Note taker for PEARG IETF 108 session on Monday X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:03:08 -0000 Note taker position now filled! Thanks Sara.=20 > On 24 Jul 2020, at 10:50, Sara Dickinson wrote: >=20 > Hi All,=20 >=20 > If anyone is willing to volunteer as note taker in Monday=E2=80=99s = session please drop the chairs a note :-)=20 >=20 > Best regards >=20 > Sara.=20 > --=20 > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg From nobody Fri Jul 24 06:09:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A7B3A0A41 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 06:09:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3-AF4rfqH6Qt for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 06:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (mx4.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:2::4:12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66C8B3A09B4 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 06:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id D01A7280504; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 500) id C9A58280668; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay01.prive.nic.fr (relay01.prive.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:15::11]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E89280504; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from b12.nic.fr (b12.users.prive.nic.fr [10.10.86.133]) by relay01.prive.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E66642C582; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by b12.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 57E73401F4; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:09:30 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer , "pearg@irtf.org" Message-ID: <20200724130930.GA22817@nic.fr> References: <159466596628.22724.642459259274073600@ietfa.amsl.com> <20200721152104.GA26448@nic.fr> <3164714D-F19E-4652-B167-43111CE3A376@isoc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3164714D-F19E-4652-B167-43111CE3A376@isoc.org> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 10.4 X-Kernel: Linux 4.19.0-9-amd64 x86_64 X-Charlie: Je suis Charlie Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000040, version=1.2.2 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.0.2142326, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2019.11.5.63017 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-pearg-censorship-04.txt X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 13:09:35 -0000 On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 09:46:21PM +0000, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote a message of 213 lines which said: > Would you recommend “it is possible”? And to what extent do we know > that people implement what RFC 5961 describes? My guess (just a guess) is that all TCP stacks do it for a long time. I'm not aware of hard data about that. > > This in-window recommendation is important, as if it is > > implemented it allows for successful Blind RST Injection attacks > > [Netsec-2011]. > > > Not clear. > > Due to the RFC 5961 comment above? Do you want us to put in a “(Note > that if [a network? a server?] implements the protections against > blind TCP injections in RFC 5961 [it is much harder to accomplish]” > or something? It's simply that I cannot parse the english text in the draft. From nobody Tue Jul 28 09:06:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1973A0E43 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:06:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=salesforce.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QQIlRFl_Wl8Y for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A9333A0E72 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id k23so21265020iom.10 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:06:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salesforce.com; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dwzZ2Eh0DzOu1BPCNU4qh/+d/H61uffeywhhVzCymcY=; b=fTXaFWhI6wOoM/jjbi5S1OXmsgmTFBqAs+onj5uaQh3HmmMqq4hiYkvGoulOPAHUc9 vEg6951uoiYNSkr+260ErCuTd0A+COjLRrYE5WPas6YMrermdSm1mTlrwSTAuRyrDDev BGxVbUyenxdHlq0VDgdSbyugORbkSkOFwVQNg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dwzZ2Eh0DzOu1BPCNU4qh/+d/H61uffeywhhVzCymcY=; b=Gc8CErQDnCQ7IW+Ia6nhhZxYLnT970bdmJRU3z72mCeQNvAfMXiL/KlCmb0pjyVGMH m2PWrFN2VApkVZH07uhmQ4EO+y59vczzdi8+BIUuXiTxYhz/21bKnqZbJIg6VasKVegQ anxEsOt4ySEnhXN3ZNFzDLtCRLBz5wZoq4X374a3KPltjPySzhw4EG9m3eJHYkd6dl8v I3TRWhJht3rhcmWkIz7SQJm5yuomBff0RKJZgF9a4eeYOrUfy6jBeE97V2deqGH6J1Qw K88l2is2OaF5F1biCbRmGbw2aJhYUdJsnZ+3xxH1/01RKexvJBbhK27uJD6JmcLCcKRu 5ArA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533eNF2d4J/z6sdCXifPjq5fIduewIbP2Yxu48GC49cXOl5QhDEI WYb2/2eo1+WvnY3gWL5As/u5NkClmxaDj1dbCsQtC9P4na/bXA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxYYMd9xY5+yTxJFWT02VnGU562lTMqrRFj9/ySGj2b29FiEDnb8thL12PCvlkG7FgjyemyoL3JE7/YyUHBExY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:1005:: with SMTP id r5mr34194287jab.116.1595952396575; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Shivan Sahib Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:06:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ad502205ab829fb5" Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Responsible Data Summit X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 16:06:43 -0000 --000000000000ad502205ab829fb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, late notice plus clash with IETF, but there is an interesting online summit happening right now that has quite a few topics related to privacy-preserving technology (contact tracing, ML + privacy in health): https://responsibledata.ai/agenda-0728 --000000000000ad502205ab829fb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all, late notice plus clash with IETF, but there is an = interesting online summit happening right now that has quite a few topics r= elated to privacy-preserving technology (contact tracing, ML + privacy in h= ealth):=C2=A0https://res= ponsibledata.ai/agenda-0728
--000000000000ad502205ab829fb5-- From nobody Fri Jul 31 01:09:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7D13A107A; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 01:09:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id COoTEs-y-Cj5; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 01:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 809033A1076; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 01:09:07 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.75,417,1589234400"; d="scan'208,217";a="355685515" Received: from dom38-1-82-236-155-50.fbx.proxad.net (HELO [192.168.0.34]) ([82.236.155.50]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 31 Jul 2020 10:09:05 +0200 From: Vincent Roca Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2B16A7E0-A1AE-4C6B-AC95-1EA9C2D5633F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:09:03 +0200 Cc: Vincent Roca To: hrpc@irtf.org, pearg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Follow-up of Simon McGarr talk on Apps for COVID-19 Tracing: about big tech companies and democracy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:09:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2B16A7E0-A1AE-4C6B-AC95-1EA9C2D5633F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear all, Following the excellent presentation from Simon on =C2=AB Apps for = COVID-19 Tracing An EU Data Rights View =C2=BB, during HRPC 108 meeting (thank you!), I=E2=80=99d like to share the following record = that so nicely expresses my thoughts, by Shoshana Zuboff. =E2=80=9CShoshana Zuboff meets Margrethe Vestager: A conversation about = a future digital Europe=E2=80=9D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNOKxAIyPLpo = =E2=80=94 offset: = 30:46 - 35:38 (best effort transcript, not 100% word-by-word) =E2=80=94 =E2=80=9CIn democratic society, public health authorities operate under = the rule of law and they operate under democratic governance. Public = health authorities need to be able to see a large-scale pattern of how = the disease is moving so they can affectively contain it. The erosion of = trust has completely crippled the genuine necessary effort of public = health authority to do their work. The information empire led by Google = and Apple took their unaccountable power without collaboration with = governments, developed their own approach and they gazlighted this = approach. [=E2=80=A6] They create a polemic that says that our app is = the privacy app and what the state is trying to do is to spy on you and = undercut the legitimate need of public health authorities that operate = under democracy, leaving countries like Germany, France, UK just in a = set of intolerable constraints. So here we are: we have allowed this = information empire to own and operate the Internet, to own and operate = the global means of telecommunication, to own and operate the = infrastructure and to own all of the content. This is intolerable and = incompatible with democracy! We have allowed them to drive a wedge = between citizens and their rightful democratic governance. This is also = intolerable. We have allowed them to cloud the fact that privacy and = solidarity are two sides of the same coin. Privacy is not private. = Privacy is public. Privacy and solidarity go together. Without a = society that has social solidarity, there is no rule of law. Without = the rule of law, there is no right to privacy and there are no other = rights. Indeed there are no individuals. These things are nested = together of necessity. We see the tech companies driving a wedge, and we = see our states who have the best of intentions, in many of these = situations, left powerless. This is intolerable! The COVID backdrop is = showing us the road that we should take. That the state has to clean its = own house, the state has to enact the same charters of rights and laws = and institutions to keep itself the state true to democracy and forfeit = the surveillance state=E2=80=A6 and at the same time create those rights = and laws that oversee the market place and outlaw, interrupt and = eliminate surveillance capitalism which is a new form of economical = authoritarianism that has right now hegemonic influence over society.=E2=80= =9D =E2=80=94 I think it nicely summarises the situation we=E2=80=99ve seen in Europe = (don=E2=80=99t know for the rest of the world) and it raises questions=20= that are not far from human rights considerations. And here we are = talking about democratic countries like UK, Germany and France (BTW the only one which resisted the Apple/Google pressure), = with strong democratic and data protection laws, not totalitarian ones. I also CC PEARG since it's closely related to Stephen Farrell's talk on = Monday about those apps, and because privacy=20 considerations are also central. **Disclaimer:** I=E2=80=99m not neutral on this topic since our Inria = PRIVATICS research group designed the ROBERT protocol that is at the core of the French contact tracing app, and the DESIRE = protocol that=E2=80=99s based on a totally different concept (identify encounters rather than endpoints). For us DESIRE is a 3rd way = approach since it enables to go beyond the centralized vs. decentralized duality (i.e., it enables all of this, = seamlessly), with major privacy improvements. https://github.com/ROBERT-proximity-tracing/documents = = https://github.com/3rd-ways-for-EU-exposure-notification/project-DESIRE = Cheers, Vincent ---- Vincent Roca, PhD/HDR, PRIVATICS team leader, Inria research institute, = France https://privatics.inrialpes.fr/people/roca/ = --Apple-Mail=_2B16A7E0-A1AE-4C6B-AC95-1EA9C2D5633F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Dear = all,

Following the excellent presentation = from Simon on =C2=AB Apps for COVID-19 Tracing An EU Data Rights View = =C2=BB, during HRPC 108
meeting (thank = you!), I=E2=80=99d like to share the following record that so = nicely expresses my thoughts, by Shoshana Zuboff.

=E2=80=9CShoshana Zuboff = meets Margrethe Vestager: A conversation about a future digital = Europe=E2=80=9D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNOKxAIyPLpo  &n= bsp;=E2=80=94   offset: 30:46 - 35:38
(best = effort transcript, not 100% word-by-word)

=E2=80=94
=E2=80=9CI= n democratic society, public health authorities operate under the rule = of law and they operate under democratic governance. Public health = authorities need to be able to see a large-scale pattern of how the = disease is moving so they can affectively contain it. The erosion of = trust has completely crippled the genuine necessary effort of public = health authority to do their work. The information empire led by = Google and Apple took their unaccountable power without collaboration = with governments, developed their own approach and they gazlighted = this approach. [=E2=80=A6] They create a polemic that says that our app = is the privacy app and what the state is trying to do is to spy on you = and undercut the legitimate need of public health authorities that = operate under democracy, leaving countries like Germany, France, UK just = in a set of intolerable constraints. So here we are: we have allowed = this information empire to own and operate the Internet, to own and = operate the global means of telecommunication,  to own and operate = the infrastructure and to own all of the content. This is = intolerable and incompatible with democracy! We have allowed them to = drive a wedge between citizens and their rightful democratic governance. = This is also intolerable. We have allowed them to cloud the fact = that privacy and solidarity are two sides of the same coin. Privacy is = not private. Privacy is public. Privacy and solidarity go together. =  Without a society that has social solidarity, there is no = rule of law.  Without the rule of law, there is no right to privacy = and there are no other rights. Indeed there are no = individuals. These things are nested together of necessity. We see = the tech companies driving a wedge, and we see our states who have the = best of intentions, in many of these situations, left powerless. = This is intolerable! The COVID backdrop is showing us the road that we = should take. That the state has to clean its own house, the state = has to enact the same charters of rights and laws and institutions to = keep itself the state true to democracy and forfeit the surveillance = state=E2=80=A6 and at the same time create those rights and laws = that oversee the market place and outlaw, interrupt and eliminate = surveillance capitalism which is a new form of economical = authoritarianism that has right now hegemonic influence over = society.=E2=80=9D
=E2=80=94

I think it nicely summarises the situation we=E2=80=99ve seen = in Europe (don=E2=80=99t know for the rest of the world) and it raises = questions 
that are not far from human rights = considerations. And here we are talking about democratic countries like = UK, Germany
and France (BTW the only one which = resisted the Apple/Google pressure), with strong democratic and data = protection laws,
not totalitarian ones.

I also CC PEARG since it's closely related to = Stephen Farrell's talk on Monday about those apps, and because = privacy 
considerations are also = central.

**Disclaimer:** I=E2=80=99m = not neutral on this topic since our Inria PRIVATICS research group = designed the ROBERT protocol
that is at the core of the = French contact tracing app, and the DESIRE protocol that=E2=80=99s based = on a totally different concept
(identify encounters rather = than endpoints). For us DESIRE is a 3rd way approach since it enables to = go beyond the
centralized vs. decentralized duality (i.e., = it enables all of this, seamlessly), with major privacy improvements.
= https://github.com/ROBERT-proximity-tracing/documents
= https://github.com/3rd-ways-for-EU-exposure-notification/projec= t-DESIRE


Cheers,

    =  Vincent

----
Vincent Roca, PhD/HDR, PRIVATICS team leader, Inria research = institute, France
https://privatics.inrialpes.fr/people/roca/

= --Apple-Mail=_2B16A7E0-A1AE-4C6B-AC95-1EA9C2D5633F-- From nobody Fri Jul 31 01:40:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6873A10EE; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 01:40:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2wFts0b5OgM; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 01:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B1CC3A1056; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 01:40:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=14012; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1596184828; x=1597394428; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=5W/nLBsMS8bPoAis737+g1CAAtc7jYOx2QE0pUgHJ8o=; b=ILG87Kpspp+hLKCRuIgHqNA+BzJhmwmE7+IZctJn1z56qXmgUBbO8wgQ 8Ddk+g7gimy7t5JZibIOKya8BUdt3L6tPHyL1PeI7GRnqjcLx+lgBJoci zivLZfFlvJVdP+z2WCoa+8PsMcGkM+qZJuMDrw1o9ZL7n9FF883fTl/Qz 0=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B5AADF2CNf/xbLJq1WChoBAQEBAQEBAQEBAwEBAQESA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQICAQEBAYIKgXWBJFQBIBIshDWJAYdyJZN2LYYBgWkBCgEBAQwBARgBC?= =?us-ascii?q?gwEAQGETAKCMSU4EwIDAQEBAwIDAQEBAQUBAQECAQYEbYVcDIVxAQEBAwEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?SFLCwULCxgjBwICJzAGE4MmAYJcIA+vJ3aBMoE7gwABEwMPL0KEfwaBOItvg?= =?us-ascii?q?TiCAIERJwwQgU9QLj6CRRcBAQIXgQwND4M0M4ItBJADimWJXV2QZoJqgwqFU?= =?us-ascii?q?okfiAUDHpFOjimcU5EZg1YCBAYFAhWBaiMsC4EgMxoIGxU7KgGCPj4SGQ1Wj?= =?us-ascii?q?gCDOoE+g1aFRD8DMDcCBgEHAQEDCZBwAQE?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.75,417,1589241600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="25939056" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 31 Jul 2020 08:40:24 +0000 Received: from [10.61.212.32] ([10.61.212.32]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 06V8eNgp000850 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:40:24 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <8692AD73-42CB-4D0B-8366-041CA2051BF0@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4D250F60-1AD5-47ED-94EB-2661917BC811" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:40:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: hrpc@irtf.org, pearg@irtf.org To: Vincent Roca References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.212.32, [10.61.212.32] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] Follow-up of Simon McGarr talk on Apps for COVID-19 Tracing: about big tech companies and democracy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:40:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4D250F60-1AD5-47ED-94EB-2661917BC811 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I apologize for not being able to attend HRPC. Here in Switzerland = there is very good adoption of the COVID-19 tracing app by the general = population (over 1.6 million downloads took place by the end of June, = and we are a country of 8.5 million people). This app is based on = DP-3T[1] which is available on Github. The privacy and regulatory = evaluations are also available on Github. The DP-3T code makes use of = Google=E2=80=99s and Apple=E2=80=99s health privacy interface. What we = do not know is what percentage of sick people will be willing to = indicate in the app that they have been infected. As of late it is = reported that fewer are using the app, but the method to determine this = is somewhat questionable. Eliot [1] https://github.com/DP-3T > On 31 Jul 2020, at 10:09, Vincent Roca wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Following the excellent presentation from Simon on =C2=AB Apps for = COVID-19 Tracing An EU Data Rights View =C2=BB, during HRPC 108 > meeting (thank you!), I=E2=80=99d like to share the following record = that so nicely expresses my thoughts, by Shoshana Zuboff. >=20 > =E2=80=9CShoshana Zuboff meets Margrethe Vestager: A conversation = about a future digital Europe=E2=80=9D > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNOKxAIyPLpo = =E2=80=94 offset: = 30:46 - 35:38 > (best effort transcript, not 100% word-by-word) >=20 > =E2=80=94 > =E2=80=9CIn democratic society, public health authorities operate = under the rule of law and they operate under democratic governance. = Public health authorities need to be able to see a large-scale pattern = of how the disease is moving so they can affectively contain it. The = erosion of trust has completely crippled the genuine necessary effort of = public health authority to do their work. The information empire led by = Google and Apple took their unaccountable power without collaboration = with governments, developed their own approach and they gazlighted this = approach. [=E2=80=A6] They create a polemic that says that our app is = the privacy app and what the state is trying to do is to spy on you and = undercut the legitimate need of public health authorities that operate = under democracy, leaving countries like Germany, France, UK just in a = set of intolerable constraints. So here we are: we have allowed this = information empire to own and operate the Internet, to own and operate = the global means of telecommunication, to own and operate the = infrastructure and to own all of the content. This is intolerable and = incompatible with democracy! We have allowed them to drive a wedge = between citizens and their rightful democratic governance. This is also = intolerable. We have allowed them to cloud the fact that privacy and = solidarity are two sides of the same coin. Privacy is not private. = Privacy is public. Privacy and solidarity go together. Without a = society that has social solidarity, there is no rule of law. Without = the rule of law, there is no right to privacy and there are no other = rights. Indeed there are no individuals. These things are nested = together of necessity. We see the tech companies driving a wedge, and we = see our states who have the best of intentions, in many of these = situations, left powerless. This is intolerable! The COVID backdrop is = showing us the road that we should take. That the state has to clean its = own house, the state has to enact the same charters of rights and laws = and institutions to keep itself the state true to democracy and forfeit = the surveillance state=E2=80=A6 and at the same time create those rights = and laws that oversee the market place and outlaw, interrupt and = eliminate surveillance capitalism which is a new form of economical = authoritarianism that has right now hegemonic influence over society.=E2=80= =9D > =E2=80=94 >=20 > I think it nicely summarises the situation we=E2=80=99ve seen in = Europe (don=E2=80=99t know for the rest of the world) and it raises = questions=20 > that are not far from human rights considerations. And here we are = talking about democratic countries like UK, Germany > and France (BTW the only one which resisted the Apple/Google = pressure), with strong democratic and data protection laws, > not totalitarian ones. >=20 > I also CC PEARG since it's closely related to Stephen Farrell's talk = on Monday about those apps, and because privacy=20 > considerations are also central. >=20 > **Disclaimer:** I=E2=80=99m not neutral on this topic since our Inria = PRIVATICS research group designed the ROBERT protocol > that is at the core of the French contact tracing app, and the DESIRE = protocol that=E2=80=99s based on a totally different concept > (identify encounters rather than endpoints). For us DESIRE is a 3rd = way approach since it enables to go beyond the > centralized vs. decentralized duality (i.e., it enables all of this, = seamlessly), with major privacy improvements. > https://github.com/ROBERT-proximity-tracing/documents = > = https://github.com/3rd-ways-for-EU-exposure-notification/project-DESIRE = >=20 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Vincent >=20 > ---- > Vincent Roca, PhD/HDR, PRIVATICS team leader, Inria research = institute, France > https://privatics.inrialpes.fr/people/roca/ = >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc --Apple-Mail=_4D250F60-1AD5-47ED-94EB-2661917BC811 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = apologize for not being able to attend HRPC.  Here in Switzerland = there is very good adoption of the COVID-19 tracing app by the general = population (over 1.6 million downloads took place by the end of June, = and we are a country of 8.5 million people).  This app is based on = DP-3T[1] which is available on Github.  The privacy and regulatory = evaluations are also available on Github. =  The DP-3T code makes use of Google=E2=80=99s and Apple=E2=80=99s = health privacy interface.  What we do not know is what percentage = of sick people will be willing to indicate in the app that they have = been infected.  As of late it is reported that fewer are using the = app, but the method to determine this is somewhat questionable.

Eliot
[1] https://github.com/DP-3T


On 31 Jul 2020, at 10:09, = Vincent Roca <vincent.roca@inria.fr> wrote:

Dear = all,

Following the excellent presentation = from Simon on =C2=AB Apps for COVID-19 Tracing An EU Data Rights View = =C2=BB, during HRPC 108
meeting (thank = you!), I=E2=80=99d like to share the following record that so = nicely expresses my thoughts, by Shoshana Zuboff.

=E2=80=9CShoshana Zuboff = meets Margrethe Vestager: A conversation about a future digital = Europe=E2=80=9D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNOKxAIyPLpo  &n= bsp;=E2=80=94   offset: 30:46 - 35:38
(best = effort transcript, not 100% word-by-word)

=E2=80=94
=E2=80=9CI= n democratic society, public health authorities operate under the rule = of law and they operate under democratic governance. Public health = authorities need to be able to see a large-scale pattern of how the = disease is moving so they can affectively contain it. The erosion of = trust has completely crippled the genuine necessary effort of public = health authority to do their work. The information empire led by = Google and Apple took their unaccountable power without collaboration = with governments, developed their own approach and they gazlighted = this approach. [=E2=80=A6] They create a polemic that says that our app = is the privacy app and what the state is trying to do is to spy on you = and undercut the legitimate need of public health authorities that = operate under democracy, leaving countries like Germany, France, UK just = in a set of intolerable constraints. So here we are: we have allowed = this information empire to own and operate the Internet, to own and = operate the global means of telecommunication,  to own and operate = the infrastructure and to own all of the content. This is = intolerable and incompatible with democracy! We have allowed them to = drive a wedge between citizens and their rightful democratic governance. = This is also intolerable. We have allowed them to cloud the fact = that privacy and solidarity are two sides of the same coin. Privacy is = not private. Privacy is public. Privacy and solidarity go together. =  Without a society that has social solidarity, there is no = rule of law.  Without the rule of law, there is no right to privacy = and there are no other rights. Indeed there are no = individuals. These things are nested together of necessity. We see = the tech companies driving a wedge, and we see our states who have the = best of intentions, in many of these situations, left powerless. = This is intolerable! The COVID backdrop is showing us the road that we = should take. That the state has to clean its own house, the state = has to enact the same charters of rights and laws and institutions to = keep itself the state true to democracy and forfeit the surveillance = state=E2=80=A6 and at the same time create those rights and laws = that oversee the market place and outlaw, interrupt and eliminate = surveillance capitalism which is a new form of economical = authoritarianism that has right now hegemonic influence over = society.=E2=80=9D
=E2=80=94

I think it nicely summarises the situation we=E2=80=99ve seen = in Europe (don=E2=80=99t know for the rest of the world) and it raises = questions 
that are not far from human rights = considerations. And here we are talking about democratic countries like = UK, Germany
and France (BTW the only one which = resisted the Apple/Google pressure), with strong democratic and data = protection laws,
not totalitarian ones.

I also CC PEARG since it's closely related to = Stephen Farrell's talk on Monday about those apps, and because = privacy 
considerations are also = central.

**Disclaimer:** I=E2=80=99m = not neutral on this topic since our Inria PRIVATICS research group = designed the ROBERT protocol
that is at the core of the = French contact tracing app, and the DESIRE protocol that=E2=80=99s based = on a totally different concept
(identify encounters rather = than endpoints). For us DESIRE is a 3rd way approach since it enables to = go beyond the
centralized vs. decentralized duality (i.e., = it enables all of this, seamlessly), with major privacy improvements.
= https://github.com/ROBERT-proximity-tracing/documents
= https://github.com/3rd-ways-for-EU-exposure-notification/projec= t-DESIRE


Cheers,

    =  Vincent

----
Vincent Roca, PhD/HDR, PRIVATICS team leader, Inria research = institute, France
https://privatics.inrialpes.fr/people/roca/

_____________________________________________= __
hrpc mailing list
hrpc@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc

= --Apple-Mail=_4D250F60-1AD5-47ED-94EB-2661917BC811-- From nobody Fri Jul 31 03:50:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C1C3A104D; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 03:50:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rMqWy9JgqP91; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 03:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 126F13A1282; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 03:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC161BE20; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:50:02 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YllCKl7Rm0yV; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:50:01 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3492DBE1C; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:50:01 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1596192601; bh=eFbH0GtERCG8tIgsYHfLS/5vA4yxTQUVgHa4vVhqPtY=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=COEYHNlO2K41R3Nnqx2bA73YOZXRtg36YRhjQLbLc5vTLkmb94Piuz63OEWtRRk+M lrKam+lHW7bRnObWAwNuUVOqVjA7rwo2Om2bEjOVIwb8Z3bEGkoJ6+LALygxowXUFR 0D2ZtGs81xTdofwp3AGPEOP2B2ZeoVgvE89jdIuo= To: Vincent Roca , hrpc@irtf.org, pearg@irtf.org References: From: Stephen Farrell Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ceLEKhJREfdxXMFj9HSv64ATm8AlXWUL7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] Follow-up of Simon McGarr talk on Apps for COVID-19 Tracing: about big tech companies and democracy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:50:14 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ceLEKhJREfdxXMFj9HSv64ATm8AlXWUL7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="dRUMLUbKE4HFUxjFBnaKKFoTZidEwavBB"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Vincent Roca , hrpc@irtf.org, pearg@irtf.org Message-ID: <9fc3d956-1841-d403-0f09-fb557bf5ae8e@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [hrpc] Follow-up of Simon McGarr talk on Apps for COVID-19 Tracing: about big tech companies and democracy References: In-Reply-To: --dRUMLUbKE4HFUxjFBnaKKFoTZidEwavBB Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4B06ECC7B3EDE14D9DD22154" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4B06ECC7B3EDE14D9DD22154 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 31/07/2020 09:09, Vincent Roca wrote: > I also CC PEARG since it's closely related to Stephen Farrell's talk > on Monday about those apps, and because privacy considerations are > also central. Just to note that while I do think some work needs be done on governance related to the GAEN system, I'd not agree with all the quoted text in Vincent's mail - seems a bit OTT to me basically. 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