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Pearg@irtf.org; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 13:34:24 +0000 From: Sara Dickinson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C3742BF6-6FBC-4810-A908-2174576CB06D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Message-Id: <7EA41E81-03A5-47A6-BBF1-B649F9BEA3DE@sinodun.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 13:34:18 +0000 To: Pearg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 14 Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 13:34:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C3742BF6-6FBC-4810-A908-2174576CB06D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi All,=20 This email starts a two week Research Group Last Call for the draft = 'Unfortunate History of Transient Numeric Identifiers. The draft is = available at: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 = Please review this document and send comments to the list. This RGLC ends on 18th Nov 2020. Thanks Sara, on behalf of the chairs.=20 P.S. Please note that a separate RGLC will be started for the related = draft 'On the Generation of Transient Numeric Identifiers=E2=80=99 = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-generation-03) = immediately after this RGLC closes.=20= --Apple-Mail=_C3742BF6-6FBC-4810-A908-2174576CB06D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = All, 

This email starts a two week = Research Group Last Call for the draft 'Unfortunate History of Transient = Numeric Identifiers. The draft is available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-histor= y-03

Please review this document and = send comments to the list.

This RGLC ends = on 18th Nov 2020.

Thanks

Sara, on behalf of the chairs. 


P.S.= Please note that a separate RGLC will be started for the related draft = 'On the Generation of Transient Numeric Identifiers=E2=80=99 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-genera= tion-03) immediately after this RGLC = closes. 
= --Apple-Mail=_C3742BF6-6FBC-4810-A908-2174576CB06D-- From nobody Sun Nov 8 15:58:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F86E3A0FF3 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 15:58:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dtZ_OpSjRtwn for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 15:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D025A3A0FF9 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 15:58:09 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: 212.76.239.56 Received: from [192.168.0.233] (unknown [212.76.239.56]) (Authenticated sender: amelia@andersdotter.cc) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 899E840006; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 23:58:06 +0000 (UTC) To: Mirja Kuehlewind , Christopher Wood , "pearg@irtf.org" References: <33ba4995-ea2d-45d8-9b01-05ea9b8ddbce@www.fastmail.com> Reply-To: amelia.ietf@andersdotter.cc From: Amelia Andersdotter Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 00:54:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Adoption call for "Randomized Response Mechanisms in RRT Measurements for HTTP/3" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 23:58:14 -0000 Hi Mirja, Correct - the over-all conclusion is that RRM is not ultimately very useful. Throughout last year and this spring we were also on the hunt for other potential areas of application, but we run into similar a situation: a feature which can be made more private by RRM obfuscation can be made even more private by simply being disabled. We put it still in a draft since not all research leads down beneficial paths (combating positive outcome bias!). A third potential area for RRM is for padding bits (randomizing padding bits rather than padding with only 0s). best regards, Amelia On 2020-11-02 14:18, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: > Hi again, > > I just realized (as I had two windows open) that I'm citing below text from an old version of the predecessor draft (which had quic in the name). This text was removed/changed in the current draft, however, I think those point still remain valid. The current draft only says: > > "It is not clear that RRM would ultimately bring any particular > privacy benefit beyond what is already guaranteed in the present > specification of the spin bit in Section 17.3.1 [I-D-QUIC]." > > My conclusion to this point is that there is no additional benefit and the obfuscation proposed in this document will in many cases render the signal completely unusable and will likely not reach the goal to preserve any utility as many transmissions are short and there is already a lot of noise in the network. Therefore it is really preferred (and much easier) to disable spinbit support if privacy is seen at risk (e.g. in cases where VPNs are used as it was already discussed and agreed in the QUIC wg). > > Mirja > > > On 02.11.20, 13:35, "Pearg on behalf of Mirja Kuehlewind" wrote: > > Hi Chris, hi all, > > sorry for my late reply. I finally found some time to review this draft. > > First of all one quick question: why was the name changed from QUIC to HTTP/3 given the draft discusses a function of the QUIC...? > > Then I'm not really in support for the adoption of this draft for two main technical reasons: > > 1) As stated in the draft, there are already proposed mechanisms QUIC specification to address the need to disable the spinbit: > "it is unclear whether RRM > has advantages larger than already existing privacy mechanisms > included in the QUIC draft (such as making the spin bit optional, or > requiring that 1/8 of all streams are not measurable)" > > 2) Further the document says: > " But the whole point of differential > privacy mechanisms, including RRM, is using statistical methods to > ensure that data can be made more privacy-preserving while also > preserving the data utility. In the case of the spin bit, it is the > utility of the data that allegedly violates privacy, which means > differential privacy is an intuitively bad tool to address privacy > concerns." > For this reason there is the option in QUIC to disable the spinbit entirely. Trying to add further fuzziness to the spinbit (when decided by the endpoint to enable) will in most cases simply make the signal unusable. This is because to measure the RTT you already need a certain amount of packets, also because there might network interfere that already make the signal noisy, and many transmission are short. > > Further the draft actually does not discuss the privacy risk of this information. There was an extensive analysis in the QUIC working group that concluded that "[t]he geolocation threat appears negligible and no other threats were identified" (see https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/100/slides/slides-100-quic-sessa-spin-bit-evaluation-design-team-report-00). I don't think this group should adopt an document that is based on assumption which has been neglected by the working group that is actually specifying the protocol. > > Mirja > > > On 16.10.20, 15:22, "Pearg on behalf of Christopher Wood" wrote: > > This message starts a two week adoption call for "Randomized Response Mechanisms in RRT Measurements for HTTP/3," located here: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-andersdotter-rrm-for-rrt-in-http3-00 > > Please review the draft and indicate whether or not you would like to see this draft adopted by PEARG. > > This call for adoption ends on October 30, 2020. > > Best, > Chris, for the chairs > > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=250a60b8-7baace75-250a2023-866132fe445e-bbbcd97773754954&q=1&e=53be6d3f-ae58-498c-beca-e2dba355cbfd&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpearg > > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=b161e66f-eefadc2a-b161a6f4-867b36d1634c-6b4135653ff1b0b3&q=1&e=2e7581ce-31bf-495b-a51a-9cc1f39e00c6&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpearg > -- ^\...~...~...~...~...~.../^ Amelia Andersdotter IETF SHMOO WG Co-Chair https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/shmoo/about/ Director of Strategic Initiatives, CENTR www.centr.org ^\...~...~...~...~...~.../^ From nobody Sun Nov 8 17:20:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94FC83A1059 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:20:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VHzJw_g-MPnu for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD6E83A0E14 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse169.mail2web.com ([66.113.196.169] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx128.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kbvql-000n3b-Ci for pearg@irtf.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 02:20:08 +0100 Received: from xsmtp21.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.60]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CTtTD43LKzDWX for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.18] (helo=xmail08.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kbvqi-0004XP-EA for pearg@irtf.org; Sun, 08 Nov 2020 17:20:00 -0800 Received: (qmail 13823 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2020 01:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.103]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.43.90]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail08.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 9 Nov 2020 01:27:14 -0000 To: amelia.ietf@andersdotter.cc, Mirja Kuehlewind , Christopher Wood , "pearg@irtf.org" References: <33ba4995-ea2d-45d8-9b01-05ea9b8ddbce@www.fastmail.com> From: Christian Huitema Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEXtavGxYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdA1ou9A5MHTP9N3jfsWzlDZ+jPnQkusmc7sfLmWVz1Rmu0 J0NocmlzdGlhbiBIdWl0ZW1hIDxodWl0ZW1hQGh1aXRlbWEubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEw3G4 Nwi4QEpAAXUUELAmqKBYtJQFAl7WrxsCGwMFCQlmAYAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgEC F4AACgkQELAmqKBYtJQbMwD/ebj/qnSbthC/5kD5DxZ/Ip0CGJw5QBz/+fJp3R8iAlsBAMjK r2tmyWyJz0CUkVG24WaR5EAJDvgwDv8h22U6QVkAuDgEXtavGxIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQJoM 6MUAIqpoqdCIiACiEynZf7nlJg2Eu0pXIhbUGONdAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEEw3G4Nwi4QEpA AXUUELAmqKBYtJQFAl7WrxsCGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQELAmqKBYtJRm2wD7BzeK5gEXSmBcBf0j BYdSaJcXNzx4yPLbP4GnUMAyl2cBAJzcsR4RkwO4dCRqM9CHpVJCwHtbUDJaa55//E0kp+gH Message-ID: <44bed321-40c5-a4a0-646d-6ba5516cf396@huitema.net> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:19:59 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: 66.113.196.169 X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.196.169/32 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.196.169/32@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.13) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0cThwnZT+ODcFyeCwCHoUjupSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVzdqM7kZx+IS/ D7R5PQ1foUTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDpaUm5TrTL2ku6BQx2IM1+5j9 EvBvwu01uVCaGVBWGqspfYvaXYi6eh1GiIKE5cbb2rBNMmEsKEibQwSU1xBeOHButNDpi1WUXRkr He1vFsZaZad0VL/QynhFAlbT36L82PtKDP3yRYZgnjgzY0oAVAZ6weYgSzquK2hxskqXvy8woCTx LKweTbuJ+19zsyHVGVmhMAaQ/AfCRwRe7yHm5oY+NYmsSGn+svMubxnbgm1cr18FZBEPC2/c16Xd 7sC9aC4xteE1WLqGS9YoqrsZ2DyteN0e+ECCv9/f+GPymkgDVo7QBKA4MctKq4ifYPcXFRL2K3LA EfDXVOdt7wDbusYnuEVWSxKMHbU0zkNM3EElFDaoLuOPKc8gc82pKfhB7T02ZXdoQxMs//iOE4Fl hiCv9TR+UxzLZWL8hwGBjhoI3W+YcuHfP5PkZb5A+wE5qGdpH54Oa3V8I76VOEvlwPpZ90pncljT Sb0eCPh6fGWYRDg9pZCCLvbUROo4d19BF0cPbSyY7+zkjLH8WW9GfETqxwaYC9EvTYIIl7Z585cn dLDoft3gQzSYknam2p7REfdJpEymAZhy71JzaYKZIazNjLvclnGzlTC8ZgkR3laIWqvAxiBHuIuS y5fCAlEkGFkz7/DcRDIs/F0LykrvzFACVO3tx78u0bG7If2TCVQKbWwGZI2JVuGQpWKB3Q0ZpIib KqqwuucAyd9mPw0NFznzSXChKWk/itcbicJsIPf4sJBOBw8S9lYqictz+EkHfqb5R4VemuUI6bcE ARsm0De6PaZO6/JToEyx4tmc5OljkPSpPXAVjl2oMr8a1xm0wfXUFMjTH2DyD8i5kO5bZlYFvf25 LVONYbYifH5OzZCwIgD/xDehea09OpnwSuobZrrGExMR7eTbBjMGDKI3ijhhJn7Muv/NHXl0o++8 3wM= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Adoption call for "Randomized Response Mechanisms in RRT Measurements for HTTP/3" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 01:20:13 -0000 On 11/8/2020 3:54 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote: > Hi Mirja, > > Correct - the over-all conclusion is that RRM is not ultimately very > useful. Throughout last year and this spring we were also on the hunt > for other potential areas of application, but we run into similar a > situation: a feature which can be made more private by RRM obfuscation > can be made even more private by simply being disabled. > > We put it still in a draft since not all research leads down beneficial= > paths (combating positive outcome bias!). A third potential area for RR= M > is for padding bits (randomizing padding bits rather than padding with > only 0s). In what context are you considering such padding bits? In the case of QUIC, the Padding frames are encrypted as part of the payload. They start as zero, but are random once encrypted. There is a narrow and arcane issue with applying padding to coalesced QUIC packets during the handshake phase. The payload of the UDP packets carrying the Initial packets during the handshake must be padded to 1200 bytes. Some applications do that before encryption, and some do it after encryption. When doing that after encryption, yes, non-random padding will leak some info about the length of the Initial packets. But then, the Initial packets are "encrypted" with a static well known key, so it is not clear that requiring random padding will be very advantageous. -- Christian Huitema > > best regards, > > Amelia > > > On 2020-11-02 14:18, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: >> Hi again, >> >> I just realized (as I had two windows open) that I'm citing below text= from an old version of the predecessor draft (which had quic in the name= ). This text was removed/changed in the current draft, however, I think t= hose point still remain valid. The current draft only says: >> >> "It is not clear that RRM would ultimately bring any particular >> privacy benefit beyond what is already guaranteed in the present >> specification of the spin bit in Section 17.3.1 [I-D-QUIC]." >> >> My conclusion to this point is that there is no additional benefit and= the obfuscation proposed in this document will in many cases render the = signal completely unusable and will likely not reach the goal to preserve= any utility as many transmissions are short and there is already a lot o= f noise in the network. Therefore it is really preferred (and much easie= r) to disable spinbit support if privacy is seen at risk (e.g. in cases w= here VPNs are used as it was already discussed and agreed in the QUIC wg)= =2E=20 >> >> Mirja >> >> >> =EF=BB=BFOn 02.11.20, 13:35, "Pearg on behalf of Mirja Kuehlewind" wrote: >> >> Hi Chris, hi all, >> >> sorry for my late reply. I finally found some time to review this = draft. >> >> First of all one quick question: why was the name changed from QUI= C to HTTP/3 given the draft discusses a function of the QUIC...? >> >> Then I'm not really in support for the adoption of this draft for = two main technical reasons: >> >> 1) As stated in the draft, there are already proposed mechanisms Q= UIC specification to address the need to disable the spinbit: >> "it is unclear whether RRM >> has advantages larger than already existing privacy mechanisms >> included in the QUIC draft (such as making the spin bit optiona= l, or >> requiring that 1/8 of all streams are not measurable)" >> >> 2) Further the document says: >> " But the whole point of differential >> privacy mechanisms, including RRM, is using statistical methods= to >> ensure that data can be made more privacy-preserving while also= >> preserving the data utility. In the case of the spin bit, it i= s the >> utility of the data that allegedly violates privacy, which mean= s >> differential privacy is an intuitively bad tool to address priv= acy >> concerns." >> For this reason there is the option in QUIC to disable the spinbit= entirely. Trying to add further fuzziness to the spinbit (when decided b= y the endpoint to enable) will in most cases simply make the signal unusa= ble. This is because to measure the RTT you already need a certain amount= of packets, also because there might network interfere that already make= the signal noisy, and many transmission are short. >> >> Further the draft actually does not discuss the privacy risk of th= is information. There was an extensive analysis in the QUIC working group= that concluded that "[t]he geolocation threat appears negligible and no = other threats were identified" (see https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/100/= slides/slides-100-quic-sessa-spin-bit-evaluation-design-team-report-00). = I don't think this group should adopt an document that is based on assump= tion which has been neglected by the working group that is actually speci= fying the protocol. >> >> Mirja >> >> >> On 16.10.20, 15:22, "Pearg on behalf of Christopher Wood" wrote: >> >> This message starts a two week adoption call for "Randomized R= esponse Mechanisms in RRT Measurements for HTTP/3," located here: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-andersdotter-rrm-for-rrt-= in-http3-00 >> >> Please review the draft and indicate whether or not you would = like to see this draft adopted by PEARG.=20 >> >> This call for adoption ends on October 30, 2020. >> >> Best, >> Chris, for the chairs >> >> --=20 >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=3D250a60b8-7baace75-250a= 2023-866132fe445e-bbbcd97773754954&q=3D1&e=3D53be6d3f-ae58-498c-beca-e2db= a355cbfd&u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpearg >> >> --=20 >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=3Db161e66f-eefadc2a-b161a6f4= -867b36d1634c-6b4135653ff1b0b3&q=3D1&e=3D2e7581ce-31bf-495b-a51a-9cc1f39e= 00c6&u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpearg >> From nobody Sun Nov 8 17:48:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843A73A0F2E for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:48:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EGRwImDO6uoX for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FE6E3A1082 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2020 17:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2709BBE55; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 01:48:13 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jQmU5MCvNiJi; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 01:48:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 644EFBE51; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 01:48:11 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1604886491; bh=i0AibC5DE0IvBbLMqs8+C0hG9S5O+NEwJjc14BSbI3U=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=mRji2MR1Wwa9fWB2f1t3iSdr4MUeA66cNJrfj5hx744fNiG1ZNcrQL625iz1+MZAS MzXEp0WVgJ2chhMVqjrJd7ktujmz9JACVZZ6VrRp8kJri+uwBQHRs7CCgajR6eaSru D1RV9Idxfztjcnb6Qv0bM0ArrAT+O9pYorgWKj30= To: Christian Huitema , amelia.ietf@andersdotter.cc, Mirja Kuehlewind , Christopher Wood , "pearg@irtf.org" References: <33ba4995-ea2d-45d8-9b01-05ea9b8ddbce@www.fastmail.com> <44bed321-40c5-a4a0-646d-6ba5516cf396@huitema.net> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <6e694386-59c1-64dc-16ce-5e019bc7b534@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 01:48:10 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <44bed321-40c5-a4a0-646d-6ba5516cf396@huitema.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ti91oH9l8RFhuFrBWiZGA696N12PIpdHR" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Adoption call for "Randomized Response Mechanisms in RRT Measurements for HTTP/3" X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 01:48:17 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ti91oH9l8RFhuFrBWiZGA696N12PIpdHR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="4ndnNKL5kCyveCLQQwntVJd8E2F2giT26"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Christian Huitema , amelia.ietf@andersdotter.cc, Mirja Kuehlewind , Christopher Wood , "pearg@irtf.org" Message-ID: <6e694386-59c1-64dc-16ce-5e019bc7b534@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [Pearg] Adoption call for "Randomized Response Mechanisms in RRT Measurements for HTTP/3" References: <33ba4995-ea2d-45d8-9b01-05ea9b8ddbce@www.fastmail.com> <44bed321-40c5-a4a0-646d-6ba5516cf396@huitema.net> In-Reply-To: <44bed321-40c5-a4a0-646d-6ba5516cf396@huitema.net> --4ndnNKL5kCyveCLQQwntVJd8E2F2giT26 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DAA3F36E22B5128FBF321077" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DAA3F36E22B5128FBF321077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 09/11/2020 01:19, Christian Huitema wrote: > There is a narrow and arcane issue with applying padding... I figure there could be a useful RFC written describing the circumstances when to pad with zero and when not. A bit boring, yes, but would save some time for protocol developers later on, as this question comes up over and over. I'm not sure if generalising beyond that might be useful but wouldn't rule it out, e.g. to scope a draft at "how and when to pad with what" or similar, Cheers, S. 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Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAl+on9oFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+qR hhAAhlrD1RH1S/VqIHwEqfMdGDp5kTij1CDZH2phgAbOAAJZQmswl6lfDp1oTkizCJB7GQcK4A1s C6jcLy+hoBrp1hNwafTXB1blNtFtBisla+H1n41YYxpWG4LD9OgOMrf9+t1b74AAQOJd1cRLa0lc Hlo48CgkVs1V6sui8STXw7qiqd++nLUT18qmmoaDztLQru598F9Y12o7WaekpiBmIXH8EToKBs7L xhWMVyRJwwvDUM1UJMc5vxhSOd+t8fXmg3Vaoc+kjCzIC/XNww14mykKzTiJvX/1NpsIcaPQSnfA J/Zu343vMaaDSLhkYrhxd8WUf9UDgpUZKbc5plhm4oVghMEZ/q0v4Huo2GCEk3N7LCuGadHmhJub HnXVTtd6u6iNjbJcj8RPEUiVwBT3Vy1W86imhCKvSQH6lSj96bCILML7Pq7TC4MJWKPZVsWqGV6G FpndNatIAhqCpkUGx0jsUzEKeyeRfyMkzSfWDwXE+14qyQlq3YQpjRvVeDE84RVfLxLcUVVM8aaA j77NWpBHoKF9TkhjnNvhHrCx1pTqefEFqgmolkfjAVpPwxYcvozBWmbBRVw61hdOeFS97+WRAHne juuH9/OXlHE2WkhecOZppK6lsWFxBMfrL6iDuQZ3egGN7FxvdS21R4xO38aPp/UXA/EzZS/LMXdW jts= =OIe2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ti91oH9l8RFhuFrBWiZGA696N12PIpdHR-- From nobody Fri Nov 13 09:24:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737013A0FB8 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:24:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=sn5ZstAv; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=J37CT+4T Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GXUsyYEKvLmO for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5559D3A0FB6 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884ADE90 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:24:01 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:date:from:to:subject:content-type; s= fm2; bh=nRWasp2mx7Mp1PYo9eZMK4tIc+xxZq5L8QVL2RW34so=; b=sn5ZstAv OjO8N8HsucDJrhn3zuy9GbxDHcpJBKC4EEIY+yoESg35qC/0HAuLAHIbgfy52vb9 YyFrZ92Se/q50oeudPnNUcIIZ2CpLCG1ZXiP/+QwFLcMqlS4wH8Z3c+Z3H3+hfAE YbrhvvnzHAkQc85At35W4hWk3JIaEv5EOFV9SDKXYVFiuS54Knrh0EbAuHjwwADW 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dtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdevhhhrihhsthhophhhvghrucghohhougdfuceotggrfies hhgvrghpihhnghgsihhtshdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepfeelkeehfeffhf ehieeijeeggfektdffteejkeeltdehffetueekvdettdefjeegnecuffhomhgrihhnpehg ihhthhhusgdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpegtrgifsehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9D8693C00A1; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:24:00 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-570-gba0a262-fm-20201106.001-gba0a2623 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:23:23 -0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 17:24:04 -0000 The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic of IP address privacy. IP address uses: - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection - Geo IP - Ad targeting - ... others? Privacy attacks: - IP re-identification - IP-based fingerprinting IP hiding or blindness: - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! Best, Chris, on behalf of the chairs From nobody Fri Nov 13 12:08:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B353A0799 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:08:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c2HcxRMXkQqP for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:08:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [IPv6:2001:67c:27e4::14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AC4A3A074E for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.129] (unknown [186.19.8.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85406283B8C; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 20:08:11 +0000 (UTC) To: Christopher Wood , pearg@irtf.org References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> From: Fernando Gont Message-ID: <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 16:30:46 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 20:08:22 -0000 Hi, Chris, Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: * RFC7707 * RFC7721 * RFC7217 * RFC8064 * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis That said, my comments and questions are: * I'd be interested in attending * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible future work up for discussion?) * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest. If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to provide an overview, I'd be happy to. Thanks! Regards, Fernando On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic of IP address privacy. > > IP address uses: > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection > - Geo IP > - Ad targeting > - ... others? > > Privacy attacks: > - IP re-identification > - IP-based fingerprinting > > IP hiding or blindness: > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) > > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. > > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! > > Best, > Chris, on behalf of the chairs > -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Nov 14 06:39:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C733A0138 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 06:39:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z8sQRBbZVNy5 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 06:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 778E23A0128 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 06:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id v22so14091343edt.9 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 06:39:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v9JxJKOXC1BRbawYqIFzkAlye6txmR/qAxNHBjqtOjU=; b=d31slqttm/DtuTB/A5qDeyv2vfHkbSlBW+Eb98RN0OEi/lc785a/6m1EMGpNmbSjvj jK/mOQ29khW1exDEh0ERm5nd2vBaU4tgOHmqT5WcOdltifxvalYs9fwM6ctBYB4QLm0C n1Q1xELhMLuC97YMSh3EnxOldONq4mTVxUI+IzWmg3hZ8QJ8wl5COv14Btwj9jSrEF21 cT48WI5gtMPYJ19amf+Q+Ly8K2dCbTkRpnUTRfazTADGJ4o0QPRbVaKNwFy9rnEIB68A 3qnWMQKsc2Oy5g9lD1+y+hP4DWjm//IBueisMWpIltoXsEQoI/OVHD/QzGG4ig2J7ZMh LQwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v9JxJKOXC1BRbawYqIFzkAlye6txmR/qAxNHBjqtOjU=; b=RG78Sl0ccWonaNHpSVC20nnGH3+4nZYOsJM2dBzTzJ11J85tO63ejQOYwcY4lDJ/TR tnhcTsT6MaDv+jX/XD+NalO3Sa8uTgj+Ro6ubctyob9wkAKi3xVbNhgPaCLDpVR2ogi7 ze9KkdKfvKYbWMiw29iK64tFHLJWM3IfgJ/xo7bvAQbbtSp60KxJf6qXkwXnE9UA2g86 qmi0ZUpnlCRQWaL81LNgdBof4F02n9IQCt8UMhw0R4pwBFTBZa1SAjO9RJYKacSoMmZ4 YZD6bsYGlvfE+8Zn+0gxGxCI0YZre8Oehc3Wu/z13I+Bh19AxRpIJu8FGAllzEu8dfBI UEyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5324gun06uFUbRwbjg1YaWR4apT8x3IFTKLvVy/49N1VDTtF/MaR vEJxCIYcrg5uy3k9myA8Q/0eEQ/PWh8+1HCRaIrEt2pyDh4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJww/pSM3b1DTGoIA5K4+HbYhVKpricnHCJYPorLLF1FqwCt7gnmV5ObLxpSaZ4t28nAMJ9iWHyLaS3/HBXYQ6Q= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1714:: with SMTP id y20mr7597552edu.306.1605364787415; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 06:39:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> From: Brad Lassey Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 09:39:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Christopher Wood , pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4035705b4121daa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 14:39:55 -0000 --000000000000e4035705b4121daa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness. -Brad On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont wrote: > Hi, Chris, > > Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: > > * RFC7707 > * RFC7721 > * RFC7217 > * RFC8064 > * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis > > That said, my comments and questions are: > > * I'd be interested in attending > > * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any > proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible > future work up for discussion?) > > * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest. > If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to > provide an overview, I'd be happy to. > > Thanks! > > Regards, > Fernando > > > > > On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: > > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic of > IP address privacy. > > > > IP address uses: > > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection > > - Geo IP > > - Ad targeting > > - ... others? > > > > Privacy attacks: > > - IP re-identification > > - IP-based fingerprinting > > > > IP hiding or blindness: > > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) > > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) > > > > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it > into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. > > > > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to > hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, > and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, > suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! > > > > Best, > > Chris, on behalf of the chairs > > > > > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > --000000000000e4035705b4121daa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd very much be interested in atte= nding as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness.

-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Ferna= ndo Gont <fgont@si6networks.com= > wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--
Pearg mailing list
Pear= g@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--000000000000e4035705b4121daa-- From nobody Sat Nov 14 08:06:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2A63A09F2 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 08:06:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hwi_68Yl7L9l for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 08:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64BC73A09F0 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 08:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id v20so14586094ljk.8 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 08:06:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5gjHhuyaeU+JnIakLD74fs4jGWXEYR3wO5jaNsT909w=; b=R9uzE7EJi7oZAA++kxRRNH54np+MTeAui9gtpnnJR5B2SWDDa9xRfzbudAtUHbnQAB f3zOz22TiWQDeUy4ztWRaEIZxbv585ZpknBtVn5dZycm0+xG5k+/axIKOPPn9t19bRGb 34kyrljMhlnTHHqIHZ4oTnny/jQf+qTISxbWW8Axmyg3xNrNEqFtmKu25148OMCdYZ/L YqMcTAuMyW7V0pA+Kg8tdbVU5h6/Rr7UzAhDUur6XG8c0D3fsLL/xTDNzqAoavL3lDq0 /2xjazGjX/q4PLtFqh/GqLS6nyaRZ8bfhrVwcwPGTXTO0F6IWE10BNGGeyuYa80jY4pA mBZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5gjHhuyaeU+JnIakLD74fs4jGWXEYR3wO5jaNsT909w=; b=JdMc9AlYV2FUTecJbY2B7xR8+vMsZ45kE/N4IT2r1jRm991CN/3+eliUg8o6HcrWhH /ysVv/m/pzZ+dSyvA/vidNrAgT24ERzebN4Vc0VFONKnIWhPtrRYPQZPq7J15wDtgbX6 rPl9rlq3vkCF68OPWCh5xxpSR+iG//zFq+NsPsinFbnYYQs7+4srTO7aSm8Pv4mVS4xV 1vqd1yzGGr5yIFh6k5lsuvp2TcZOONFEZolYIuUn0IYAtU1kZmwv1RIyMExeKUjV6cwS TqPBFMLJi4sjni9jZ0EWyeuzMDC2NBBUPNdRETEA5NaW47MJ57o0yx3T33VwWzwpcgtU X5gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531iFWoJ1wl8Og2ZwDV6Y4mWxitP20sEYfh31cnQzkqmOSuuAPoc QTL2fiz9ps/p5HGFIJnZ6NEysuVO2bNt4CPy5r/2ysSKK1g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzjRmMZGD+Mvn5zVZvWbCItWMEnusp9rcfnnPhKhZ+cexG+s/BTpRKvZOVafFRZPvB+LN8PJJLw6xilaporoi8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7d0a:: with SMTP id y10mr3321497ljc.190.1605369963419; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 08:06:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Chelsea Komlo Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 09:05:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Brad Lassey Cc: Fernando Gont , pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000671ade05b41352b3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 16:06:08 -0000 --000000000000671ade05b41352b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Chris, I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). Chelsea On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey wrote: > I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful > IP Blindness. > > -Brad > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont wrote: > >> Hi, Chris, >> >> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >> >> * RFC7707 >> * RFC7721 >> * RFC7217 >> * RFC8064 >> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >> >> That said, my comments and questions are: >> >> * I'd be interested in attending >> >> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any >> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible >> future work up for discussion?) >> >> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest. >> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to >> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Regards, >> Fernando >> >> >> >> >> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic >> of IP address privacy. >> > >> > IP address uses: >> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >> > - Geo IP >> > - Ad targeting >> > - ... others? >> > >> > Privacy attacks: >> > - IP re-identification >> > - IP-based fingerprinting >> > >> > IP hiding or blindness: >> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >> > >> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it >> into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >> > >> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to >> hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, >> and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, >> suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >> > >> > Best, >> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >> > >> >> >> -- >> Fernando Gont >> SI6 Networks >> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > -- Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com --000000000000671ade05b41352b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Chris,

I recommend that someone from= Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy properties provided by to= ols like Tor differ from some of the other mechanisms presented (like VPNs = or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0

Chelsea

On Sa= t, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attending as well as present= ing on Willful IP Blindness.

-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com&g= t; wrote:
Hi, Ch= ris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--
Pearg mailing list
Pear= g@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg


--
Chel= sea H. Komlo | chelse= akomlo.com
--000000000000671ade05b41352b3-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 08:18:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FBE3A1238 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:18:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5NDlBYLUhTb for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x436.google.com (mail-pf1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5817A3A1163 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x436.google.com with SMTP id q5so14595915pfk.6 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:18:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=L/aiZLPh9/bgDwFDUeSNx26UHTQFAhvzhvpiqKvL54o=; b=HOP12nCLim+rs+Y4/KDnVnkym8PfQa+r3QFuJ8UyrKgtBByZqhqHBMoJnE+eVT2frK 78xDuXIZpqzcRrAO1kB4TeUj6ItZ086NKSt0cZnwOW9yAjRUg18deo2VWkoecQWT/X2h krb3L2qniM05ha/o55NXkxQN2kHlK/DcKNaIBwYLTeFNUILzXTfw+nYYiTK5zZEbQgvO L0GISW/8tKA1CZVJ5O9LXbgcbqv2ky6z4/pE4oDHC6LXZH7r/6EeCPfLqh6Vlua2WNEg w/qkVtotW/y8mIARHKgAlUKUZ7bjkhVbhl7XIC9W1u1Zy51gP+JWW7EUW/7cvX8U4/BA VDew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=L/aiZLPh9/bgDwFDUeSNx26UHTQFAhvzhvpiqKvL54o=; b=su4uXC8z70rqLZvbtXF+X768KbGKSiS3GURfFs7cewtWweST60DDj/+3rzEJsQzFhd eZ5iG7WJhxTSD1+9Uht1v+FHuDe4+Cq3ArDnfssa2atQMR+JTdk3WhVsnZRpC9MR2ojs WAtx7TQdf+GNLmvElxyqNOMOt0GjQmR9RSSmxYfEb9wuMHdB0zSi88Q65jZnb1LY02tp rJufT79NyErJTf3AM8xlB2WAnjG6NQjkvTppHXe1yVbtFgcYwNhzbCIPGc7JNcyjnWba GKOZpGMIBMP/rf8Zo73CWVuVPiSJZdzFs/X5iZ0y0qV0wuzcszdbk23aLkDvdJt72lbZ 51/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530hsKAxKkkvAETcjQKTPG2tg0Dk8eyZZCkNGjADwYwgTXNSDPKP FBLKlDz8yVLHJlr6n8tJ1PlaPvLf5lh6xWJyCKShuQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzNsyzwBECkhvkOmy4heojkyvA48+/ruk6u7s7aOtJ9X14WtOfQi4beIN20ZRHguczLBl8a2NOdPTaYHGcmXio= X-Received: by 2002:a65:63d5:: with SMTP id n21mr19340pgv.346.1605543498516; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:18:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Brad Lassey Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:17:42 -0500 Message-ID: To: Chelsea Komlo Cc: Brad Lassey , Fernando Gont , pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood , Dimitris Theodorakis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e6e3ac05b43bb959" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:18:25 -0000 --000000000000e6e3ac05b43bb959 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as well. -Brad On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the > privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other > mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). > > Chelsea > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful >> IP Blindness. >> >> -Brad >> >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Chris, >>> >>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >>> >>> * RFC7707 >>> * RFC7721 >>> * RFC7217 >>> * RFC8064 >>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >>> >>> That said, my comments and questions are: >>> >>> * I'd be interested in attending >>> >>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any >>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible >>> future work up for discussion?) >>> >>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest. >>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to >>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Regards, >>> Fernando >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic >>> of IP address privacy. >>> > >>> > IP address uses: >>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >>> > - Geo IP >>> > - Ad targeting >>> > - ... others? >>> > >>> > Privacy attacks: >>> > - IP re-identification >>> > - IP-based fingerprinting >>> > >>> > IP hiding or blindness: >>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >>> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >>> > >>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn >>> it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >>> > >>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to >>> hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, >>> and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, >>> suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >>> > >>> > Best, >>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Fernando Gont >>> SI6 Networks >>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Pearg mailing list >>> Pearg@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> > > > -- > Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > --000000000000e6e3ac05b43bb959 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed=C2=A0interest in part= icipating as well.

-Brad

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020= at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo <c= helsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Chris,

I recom= mend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy pro= perties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other mechanisms= presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0

<= div>Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D<= a href=3D"mailto:40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40google.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be in= terested in attending as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness.
<= div dir=3D"auto">
-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 202= 0, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--
Pearg mailing list
Pear= g@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg


--
--000000000000e6e3ac05b43bb959-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 08:57:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AF83A133A for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:57:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26LR6lmyPwNQ for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ej1-x633.google.com (mail-ej1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4300E3A132B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ej1-x633.google.com with SMTP id i19so25377694ejx.9 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=K1tu2w7akCxZF2TCWpHOZxBeuiz8ZtJEQ6sRi1ZNblM=; b=j3WXG2gJiKZOrZ+xhGSTp2hrf2yBwoFol4kjJGyAIc7MylwY4KN97spRn6I7lG6v+a X2LB31Cu2OUFuWlQosRbsdNbBETSJ+9652+CHZycS0h9bq3dyXey/RtGu4HJtHXaB5uN jM9ok09o+m0znDJRqw8V8fKpjIbPiXN1zTLs662HhinRO63M8L7dN/pFi0Nri2zET3sh 7w3ZzE9PJLZSF7PAmlO21A58/6Sw1fQh69AN+H/SqSG1isZND/93fzNuWe3L9nULFQZ7 29+e3eTQ7GXvZKQe1/bIRlY66HMfFXpilshRZgHlMea1wmMW+5bVpYDDflzMsCztebIH eiUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=K1tu2w7akCxZF2TCWpHOZxBeuiz8ZtJEQ6sRi1ZNblM=; b=Zvl2TuK6WGSHSdDDjOm42fy4tQ3PcAXlXrJjMvhKDb3DFkknQ8EoVefGyMJ5cvURez FYQ0sBbP3yGTjeAAL0B8i8rhlkPiMOn37jEQwBlfwIKanIFkZZu26nty5xpZMz9VhUS6 EGt+ZCTSJz+BZ4weE+Gz9Xq5mBVr57o9OOAiRlaVNkXgER3pHuzJJV6RrVN8g6Sx/5A2 nuUlLSvfzBE/uFTujbt21zmU71lWUiO8x0LNXTWVvxdGvWRrKhX7QKwK/426392R9NtJ 5c7wvrF8DIHAPv7VmO81rmmD7CGuSGaEDn3/rJ+IXONyDKqZejiSPIl7HPc9wV01wgEb ZPaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530nC1DRz+zOg95Cokah3jnk3WHGRcYS7i1HC9auf48iGA1LFgH2 e1wftLWEtFS4uhHIb0TQhmNZexU/Q+dyyfRsHqnGmw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxv1TemRfuOndZOU/lEqqixygDJrt4Aq2wNEwLPajvHTyaGsMEBHRgdoyqzZtZDOG6LctwIMxF6Fn4TvYAVuNA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:84e:: with SMTP id f14mr10318366ejd.57.1605545839354; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:57:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Paul Jensen Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:57:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: Brad Lassey Cc: Chelsea Komlo , Fernando Gont , Dimitris Theodorakis , pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d7e9805b43c4506" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:57:46 -0000 --0000000000006d7e9805b43c4506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'd very much be interested in attending. -Paul On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey wrote: > Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as well. > > -Brad > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo > wrote: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the >> privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other >> mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). >> >> Chelsea >> >> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey > 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >> >>> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on >>> Willful IP Blindness. >>> >>> -Brad >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Chris, >>>> >>>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >>>> >>>> * RFC7707 >>>> * RFC7721 >>>> * RFC7217 >>>> * RFC8064 >>>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >>>> >>>> That said, my comments and questions are: >>>> >>>> * I'd be interested in attending >>>> >>>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any >>>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible >>>> future work up for discussion?) >>>> >>>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of >>>> interest. >>>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to >>>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Fernando >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >>>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic >>>> of IP address privacy. >>>> > >>>> > IP address uses: >>>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >>>> > - Geo IP >>>> > - Ad targeting >>>> > - ... others? >>>> > >>>> > Privacy attacks: >>>> > - IP re-identification >>>> > - IP-based fingerprinting >>>> > >>>> > IP hiding or blindness: >>>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >>>> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >>>> > >>>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn >>>> it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >>>> > >>>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like >>>> to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an >>>> interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of >>>> course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >>>> > >>>> > Best, >>>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Fernando Gont >>>> SI6 Networks >>>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >>>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Pearg mailing list >>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>> >>> -- >>> Pearg mailing list >>> Pearg@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>> >> >> >> -- >> Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > --0000000000006d7e9805b43c4506 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd very much be interested in attend= ing.

-Paul

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Bra= d Lassey <lassey=3D40goog= le.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed= =C2=A0interest in participating as well.

-Brad
=

= On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo <chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote:=
Hi Chris,

I recommend that someone from Tor be invited= to give a talk on how the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor di= ffer from some of the other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP b= lindness).=C2=A0

Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020= at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attending as well as pres= enting on Willful IP Blindness.

-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com<= /a>> wrote:
H= i, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




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--0000000000006d7e9805b43c4506-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 09:01:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C913A12C9 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:01:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VRXb0bpBf1OH for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x331.google.com (mail-wm1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F14F3A12C0 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x331.google.com with SMTP id h2so24426131wmm.0 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:01:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VskPRcF2+x8AO5CG4QdkUoc+m3nLGHC1SXmZg9Z3mHs=; b=UFHWd90D9sLo12Yyy8eMscZF7yPAfQq0Sf061HDosA61nlFVsTb8H0Q49neECFm5/w h4w/M1tIbPFc23AlEC5sMdPyIl2NpqZ9WbsyRgeG7zZAAi0wGlccYBJ6Z/4gnhovlj2a faqFdNHf55aat/IOBuSNKlX3BEofwQTZSmISZNpUZERI3ALEGAeYcmnkgtTZwgdZ8lif w9Kw1AifWoX8ymKTxjEWIUZ9Nc48YeiNHStiI7zplfo7AcBN1d5gKREcHgxx7TRbbN9A cbdGZYwnDa33gsr5fYO7GuGZFDaB24AgOWTORZZhoDioKgEGG/Te35evzOZdmDz1ZdJV uroA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VskPRcF2+x8AO5CG4QdkUoc+m3nLGHC1SXmZg9Z3mHs=; b=iwbrYQ4ybRIFgkhetQjaEHkBwtE4EaU+JVAw0lCm39HbCHxlidPqsPGaF9y3OFIn5J KDN5UvlQBx+W/l4/TS5NGeP0ZZE0CdRzswWN5wJYi7IwsShkkOqhAi60AWPMdMlNJA7a VsjWhTte+fpk+vpak/tFk6vcPtIf3ij4dvwQ5UnOApFCkhtlcYI9xofpyMxYrU/S/TL1 g8+okR5Za44UQF/GcW44EAxaIK+3mul0/wIRjSxv2GKCPM/wxH11niMsa6HCHshzgOK6 xUv9qDMP9wFZj1Qui1QOZ31YcxZ4yoYsDFC/pPFzJZjEb1DbeGP5T/FHnz7r8bz1Ap1H JZFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ZQj/Dliq54eMvX+oPlUz0pqfTbkTcur4Vsz8y8/F+2VQtzFeW q/Yb5wzxvFu9amdc+jInFY8xsA7w1tkAcxg8wIkbSw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy+QVGU9vK/38/Bqncm0ca8QPzTn3rpbJWo2BooF6Gtsyrd7KGf5uax/UqG4J+w4G2QkbFAPc81eHBc16FLXXk= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:bcc1:: with SMTP id m184mr15981041wmf.132.1605546111687; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:01:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: David Turner Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:01:39 -0800 Message-ID: To: Paul Jensen , pearg@irtf.org Cc: Brad Lassey , Fernando Gont , Dimitris Theodorakis , Chelsea Komlo , Christopher Wood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a9276b05b43c554d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:01:56 -0000 --000000000000a9276b05b43c554d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the Google Ad Traffic Quality team. On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen wrote: > I'd very much be interested in attending. > > -Paul > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as well. >> >> -Brad >> >> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the >>> privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other >>> mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). >>> >>> Chelsea >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey >> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on >>>> Willful IP Blindness. >>>> >>>> -Brad >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Chris, >>>>> >>>>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >>>>> >>>>> * RFC7707 >>>>> * RFC7721 >>>>> * RFC7217 >>>>> * RFC8064 >>>>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >>>>> >>>>> That said, my comments and questions are: >>>>> >>>>> * I'd be interested in attending >>>>> >>>>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any >>>>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible >>>>> future work up for discussion?) >>>>> >>>>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of >>>>> interest. >>>>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to >>>>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Fernando >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >>>>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the >>>>> topic of IP address privacy. >>>>> > >>>>> > IP address uses: >>>>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >>>>> > - Geo IP >>>>> > - Ad targeting >>>>> > - ... others? >>>>> > >>>>> > Privacy attacks: >>>>> > - IP re-identification >>>>> > - IP-based fingerprinting >>>>> > >>>>> > IP hiding or blindness: >>>>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >>>>> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >>>>> > >>>>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn >>>>> it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >>>>> > >>>>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like >>>>> to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an >>>>> interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of >>>>> course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >>>>> > >>>>> > Best, >>>>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Fernando Gont >>>>> SI6 Networks >>>>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >>>>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Pearg mailing list >>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com >>> -- >>> Pearg mailing list >>> Pearg@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > --000000000000a9276b05b43c554d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm also interested in attending and presenting on beh= alf of the Google Ad Traffic Quality team.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM P= aul Jensen <pauljensen=3D= 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very m= uch be interested in attending.

-Paul
On Mon, N= ov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed=C2=A0interest in participatin= g as well.

-Brad

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 = AM Chelsea Komlo <chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Chris,

I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the pri= vacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other me= chanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0
Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <la= ssey=3D40g= oogle.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very mu= ch be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness= .

-Brad

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Fri, Nov= 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




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--000000000000a9276b05b43c554d-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 09:39:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6083A133B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:39:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sinodun.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wtvf4pJ6MfNw for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from balrog.mythic-beasts.com (balrog.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51B293A1337 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:39:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sinodun.com ; s=mythic-beasts-k1; h=To:Date:Subject:From; bh=2jFVeehiCH07XyKAYnMzHbqFFUO7Pc/9e40MxEmOyZc=; b=pKjtdTJvIepsxrhkaNNXz3P0pW LbS2rX3ZK0fLoGjhXiBE19i8TXxny0QBTsAyIaTaiN2FOHeRqwP3FwHhvHpuoQ/MDrhv7iHm+RJ1Y Ahwr/ltKG8S3QacoDrUDlYo8eaTQFu6kPo2Ia36DQ/pcfd9xi0YTEWhlzr0aDrVPGtoRRJ3pAJbFp J9O7k2RKcqhhL7LtndLLO/Gv/+AfPiAHE8UsBA2lxBEz0DlkBHeR8fBFYFHzWVxBBleH+XIfpTGYJ NQYzOQj+AC+yHnUWLJkj4ZsRw+hbmfq95acLTQXnmpuO1WNZPO2yOTw25JPIN+DzpUrUGaPPifIDi tAbvGfhw==; Received: from [2a02:8010:6126:0:d580:8656:3e62:8a23] (port=56911) by balrog.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1keiTR-0005lH-B1 for Pearg@irtf.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:39:33 +0000 From: Sara Dickinson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_84A0559B-9AF8-4059-8942-DC533BDAC70D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:39:27 +0000 References: <7EA41E81-03A5-47A6-BBF1-B649F9BEA3DE@sinodun.com> To: Pearg@irtf.org In-Reply-To: <7EA41E81-03A5-47A6-BBF1-B649F9BEA3DE@sinodun.com> Message-Id: <17BE08D7-1262-4111-AAF9-D746999D4FA4@sinodun.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:39:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_84A0559B-9AF8-4059-8942-DC533BDAC70D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi All, Just a reminder that this RGLC ends in 2 days on Wednesday 18th Nov.=20 We have not had any reviews to date, comments are still welcome. The = draft will move forward unless we hear any objections! Best regards Sara, on behalf of the chairs.=20 > On 4 Nov 2020, at 13:34, Sara Dickinson wrote: >=20 > Hi All,=20 >=20 > This email starts a two week Research Group Last Call for the draft = 'Unfortunate History of Transient Numeric Identifiers. The draft is = available at: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 = >=20 > Please review this document and send comments to the list. >=20 > This RGLC ends on 18th Nov 2020. >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Sara, on behalf of the chairs.=20 >=20 >=20 > P.S. Please note that a separate RGLC will be started for the related = draft 'On the Generation of Transient Numeric Identifiers=E2=80=99 = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-generation-03 = ) = immediately after this RGLC closes.=20 > --=20 > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg --Apple-Mail=_84A0559B-9AF8-4059-8942-DC533BDAC70D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi All,

Just a reminder that this RGLC ends in 2 = days on Wednesday 18th Nov. 

We have not had any reviews to date, = comments are still welcome. The draft will move forward unless we hear = any objections!

Best regards

Sara, on behalf of the = chairs. 

On 4 Nov 2020, at 13:34, Sara Dickinson = <sara@sinodun.com> wrote:

Hi All, 

This email starts a two week Research Group = Last Call for the draft 'Unfortunate History of Transient Numeric = Identifiers. The draft is available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-histor= y-03

Please review this document and = send comments to the list.

This RGLC ends = on 18th Nov 2020.

Thanks

Sara, on behalf of the chairs. 


P.S.= Please note that a separate RGLC will be started for the related draft = 'On the Generation of Transient Numeric Identifiers=E2=80=99 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-genera= tion-03) immediately after this RGLC closes. 
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= --Apple-Mail=_84A0559B-9AF8-4059-8942-DC533BDAC70D-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 09:45:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9093A1392 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:45:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=heapingbits.net header.b=M4+teO/4; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=hMQ4PoCE Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GPJlGcDnR1uK for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60AAA3A137E for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979DDA8F; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:45:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap4 ([10.202.2.54]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:45:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heapingbits.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=JJYLbUdduxxPb9a6TcSiIgymHObQiHa PLjhEpO19u1c=; b=M4+teO/447eMFQfG+NChsNsWIV/43IGnRb4TrSOEbQ8W2eL h3/kdGPEBncGLTtmJoiQX3ikB2/gLbDSS9qZRI2RCsk3wf9P7AIoYVjS3aanzvgR 0UReO57npmv8ATnWBYyg+nAkAOly8TacpsBpoyCW6oI42FJExZL6Jxl0t8eoDUj+ 3uYQ1zHp/yFN6aagbsCIgFn2iZWb/7hPIX1wqUWe9crRBcrZltrFJC7ljTWDsElJ A8IL6QO+Z23uMmHc8bRmFSsYQh4EkX0exVY48RdtJ5RmQbb6JX+O84XbEhJfJ6hi h9jMml8xyTkxmu2r0TeIf0wAcKDveGXtbt+F+lQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=JJYLbU dduxxPb9a6TcSiIgymHObQiHaPLjhEpO19u1c=; b=hMQ4PoCEn2t6tnTrtJG9oY M6b6jCdgfMSL1XlSiVGZQ1BZsmDDqGil1Vohdk39XuwnzZ/KUDm0zGv1Fo8V7uk4 CWTK+Hhb+GtHPLtWmTBjkRi5NAed4l067o4p1wLwnrQ3vZJo7hgAeSg/bq8vhCuj AWPyCJaNLSsbzKgA0TDvy6YL4PWOPInC2XYJVgI9Ry0CoCNkVuz4iqCYsJ6pHNPp ZQktpyWEFHZxyJfoaHMyr2jmJ1cJy67v7S4FHZlECPxwQdVscDq/lMbSaYQ0LSCH qZo5sLnDh+j0sMKLgO8tf96q4NU6PEIO4DCsbhyeUDwRUZYMbbEwYTXDIgdrA2HQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrudefuddguddthecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfvehh rhhishhtohhphhgvrhcuhghoohgufdcuoegtrgifsehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvg htqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduffeitddutdetgfegfeekgedvkeelvdeiiedtjeet teeuvdejveelleeltedtheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmh grihhlfhhrohhmpegtrgifsehhvggrphhinhhgsghithhsrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5556A3C00A1; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:44:59 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-570-gba0a262-fm-20201106.001-gba0a2623 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:44:39 -0800 From: "Christopher Wood" To: "Fernando Gont" , pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:45:06 -0000 On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, at 11:30 AM, Fernando Gont wrote: > Hi, Chris, > > Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: > > * RFC7707 > * RFC7721 > * RFC7217 > * RFC8064 > * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis > > That said, my comments and questions are: > > * I'd be interested in attending Great! > * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any > proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible > future work up for discussion?) The purpose (as of now) is to discuss the topic and take note of what emerges during discussion. > * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest. > If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to > provide an overview, I'd be happy to. Thanks! I think a summary of these documents would certainly be useful for the group. Best, Chris From nobody Mon Nov 16 09:52:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412593A1360 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:52:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0as1zM_Z8QB for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-relay232.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (mail-relay232.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.156.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C60F3A1358 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crisp-da.de (mail.crisp-da.de [IPv6:2001:41b8:830:105:216:4eff:fe9e:e08f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail-relay232.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CZc8Y32MNz43h9 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:51:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a01:c23:800f:6600:ccff:35d4:a7f8:c7ba] (dynamic-2a01-0c23-800f-6600-ccff-35d4-a7f8-c7ba.c23.pool.telefonica.de [IPv6:2a01:c23:800f:6600:ccff:35d4:a7f8:c7ba]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.crisp-da.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D6EB5160B2 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:51:56 +0100 (CET) To: pearg@irtf.org References: <7EA41E81-03A5-47A6-BBF1-B649F9BEA3DE@sinodun.com> From: Kris Shrishak Autocrypt: addr=kris.shrishak@sit.tu-darmstadt.de; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFfO0mABEADoirdi4YAgHqyuaeLABphCRwjtEm3q0Dmi5X26IdtroyawTFEle0IElfZI FsfNs790ZXGs6+jGGuYauXPiTjolRSj44k+wO3P7kExuj+qwOQxOIRnLWqhjnVqAZV1gVx+3 STnhJTYN4WmDE1VWhF8BaSu5X3FxWo5KNQ26AP4EVb8kl6wiYKRFOJuIMHqpD3Cgl/IjlDwB 83j/fE3tsclxWD5oESHhBwjxj+stxg22S/EBnvbMbYpnTqEehHuP9sFQKMKTda4V9QVZkNSF e17HJ0PkwtnsX6GWyhtcIIX9ebTHKm5pnC3lkTE8Cn9Dx3WS0EYmHdC5LGWvYk3eoiypi1fM OYaG44kQyjJ53h72fFb/KfsFh1i9p0irYIsxReBFcNf8pE8adNTpJ9eKJ6M/y/9/hXzzhw9h M3Db2WeKv6LX8ElgstqKZkx1BxeNOeHZqFBTvZSW7dkrh9at7MI8zNGKLhX9Fe52zTZGs8uG NFeutN2R9Ms11dgYaf3hlzmj1+b0Bwj2q3+MgHS+bKb84qyqjJkHMmb960/KHXcJ5ZBLfwZC ZuzgMlC4G1YmhPgT7kEH9v6M8Fw6c6rcqJEH5UmXA5+krMCXXWvaw+b/h8pjHhKXbaftzJ2y uSGSGLj0SzfCwk4NiMsPdXI6Gw4EwByPel/Xs0dbKcV07bGyFQARAQABtDFLcmlzIFNocmlz aGFrIDxrcmlzLnNocmlzaGFrQHNpdC50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+iQI/BBMBCAApBQJYbUga AhsjBQkJZgGABwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQSAPsJ8ZMwKQP+A/+P4N7 gjrU04Uy8gHOI14CWRo8Ul1ERgeqgGdRdh3B5IxgSZvS8OuiOTaRinw1K/dLk2XZGruQSpiy zsWWu3mhThIhFzTvkFFgcc0q+twpqhYGjDD4qTPexwM4fznsEh3f2SS6hCSQDnUJ8+3l6I8B xsEUfzMIBafTrD9o0C9FEL6c3xOamPkRhmZn4YTplOOvGnwC13Wyf6eQBig4UI7i+3lrC/PR wzNNS5G7lJQ9hHgL71uTZ/Z7orHDOcgpbpspRMGdP2rKnA0d1+rL3+OgOia19N/idb0IVghD /AEftHIN73A/xMf8/YzOJ1arzc+JfKxVm4cUook4lQzc9RJTPNpijxhXIHxIRiZkKfMFrZyN GiRfLIU+mnBZqr+sYGR16TC14t98MGgKZVeEJ1RU8pk/M7SG9hvszTRs6++jl+z5aR5Dgwbe Yt+lqYpKNDDiASuPMhXLXuBw7CrB/axnTP0avdRvnFl+fb6KSsu6IfCjKWRPdED8B3iSDHV/ lnn3UrQnq7yMoYeu8jMQDgRJt1hiym2IeDnn24gryhjmTI6Cl3OGfLL5+qgvUjkRQB/DmpWu 6Mv5tOPyxTHGMScEmXbtEXHqJqizdIl9FLonL0Ov/UM2+4sX6So8ep+Bev7SElatdDmCJZqI HEKA4ihpMAzJRNCbA7oHswGFkkfgmuC5Ag0EV87SYAEQAKVMDsX6kTqDSIWMxpy2hPoq+x/m IXkZIzu76q2x40mQQtrAHyS9PmQ7mKFQQZHPQV7GsjtchPKI1ErEEh5l2gdYMJdTte+OuitT 47a8ueKcXx+eyy9lMu/yuZ33Qo2A5it5Di0eUaBz4S4jsg6hDf7eRnNsmrLZJsh64pXcVllF 9bvU/5SQHE1Lc02hdcSTSHxAfVb+HHlPiIJnSo8IVHY3k+6UUR84fWPk0O/SnLCNksDwgvwK k7/QAaj8COVx9U1f5BU0pTjWIPVDXK+5bOi8h7ev28XtCw0blfno78TwvlqZDxXnOjlHqz3k kbzfUGNTDm1cyiP5OQ9syuapnPZ/wH6IpgsVZKqarMQZ1M0Ir20Xwr/Hr7ONcfhGVduhK1TE g3PDJTQvCcmk10kaGniDQ3kRrNVVxAhImQ8sjI7Jh8UsoHvPfqX7Us/XnOus+zWnw6e9iGf1 FqvUs3PjEgo2JJ3XkSiHCs7fOOGu5wUsBspid2VuOQ4dPTNRCaibkzJXNU6Cf4wYUyQh79wh VP8XCRlOW70dr1pKKbOkKafTnqeU76VKYQ24jtfPvyWB3CgStq2Dinov/5ULQcGKXAtKltJ6 L5XYi2VHGgOfMJlnIBsWIuHSf+QJj2hg4qcdm2Mh7zVh9ZDRvU/virAoL+5DwebSUclyK0qb TKO7cS+bABEBAAGJAiUEGAEIAA8FAlfO0mACGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQSAPsJ8ZMwKQMgQ/+OPdE d1VimLbV+wRQoSnh7Cf/ybu2v97E+0/6tuZiIz5vRkkspoc7zrgPALED5SshFAIoFXdIEqhO 3k4pnGjfVxPuOmJy+FC2ZKAyNCdbfd7ALTjYTSOvD1Y0OiqtR+Yn+XhC6aExN6+uhH37F/1Y wpAfYwHiGjB6X+DR5+Nt5aU9EKXHTYZNJmEsmrMBjv4yynW9BPWrJwaQlpAjy0ykPzikGe1j 17+F4LLmTUt7QgzCotO98leZ+yWiSLyKBv9A1aqM9Lvf+nFYbJhSlZ1org8qFexEKc9WFaw2 oPC2rG306FyKrDiL4BZoIvFLqz8SBOIw2y7+WsT717rA09QtQeFJq8nfe86JmGG/z68hfetB uwMVGX6Y5km6p/c7hFCSuRt+8pBuUWCBLsjXijVpL4MyrJLWu6OTZX5CdAaxOh+MwBvBR7Bz CL7Za0CMivtMqgWqIXKo0nydVi1kIfdQcrY+ThieNFPfluBAv+8V1xJRxVJFEayyXAR2n8Ce VKvNvmk6ya0Wn/ghfW6VVwlM/dZTcvE9UL+Ct8khxjIYw4VDKJqz1D3PQK0od21QCO/58T7o NkoXRADiOO34WjLYGUg7OGPF+ZACE1b1EbaA8fyapcQBdIUO8OoJuz88O/51rVfinH//jA3f tfZglM6aFJHuDDvyeHEYxcmfvRlA8sc= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:51:50 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7EA41E81-03A5-47A6-BBF1-B649F9BEA3DE@sinodun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:52:02 -0000 Hi all, Please find me review below with minor comments: Best, Kris Comments: - I am not sure if it is within the scope of this document, but when I am reading a document as a history, then I am also interested in why certain choices were made and not only the order in which they were made. Maybe mailing lists can give us some insight on this. For instance, the use of global counters for IPv6 when the issue of global counters for TCP Initial Sequence Numbers was already raised well before RFC2460 was published. It could just be that the authors and the WG were unaware or did not consider the issue relevant. - Section 1: "Recent history indicates that ... specification or selected by implementers." If recent history refers to the examples preceding this paragraph or to the timelines presented in the following sections, then the framing of this sentence can make it explicit. Maybe something along the lines of "these examples indicate" will add clarity. Otherwise, a reference to a couple of recent RFCs can substantiate the claim of recent history. Chris Wood [1] also raised this issue a while back in the context of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-generation-02 - Section 1, 5, 6, 10: I am not quite sure what "negative security and privacy properties" means. Maybe it is just me, but this could be formulated differently. An example formulation, similar to RFC 7217, could be "negatively affect the privacy and security properties". [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pearg/7GAOjlLssjFBORob3KEqMovBfP4/ On 04/11/2020 14:34, Sara Dickinson wrote: > Hi All, > > This email starts a two week Research Group Last Call for the draft 'Unfortunate History of Transient Numeric Identifiers. The draft is available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 > > Please review this document and send comments to the list. > > This RGLC ends on 18th Nov 2020. > > Thanks > > Sara, on behalf of the chairs. > > > P.S. Please note that a separate RGLC will be started for the related draft 'On the Generation of Transient Numeric Identifiers’ (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-generation-03) immediately after this RGLC closes. > > From nobody Mon Nov 16 12:16:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085113A13A2 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:16:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MOBMda9NU_Ud for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA1633A13A1 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF24BBE7B; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:16:26 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NJdgaJfgSCYh; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:16:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7334BE2E; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:16:24 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1605557785; bh=9CxMCND7SXrOiNUkbmDP+IbZ37E7l6QojRtVs/mfB1Q=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=C4MhPAp36rP0ACOXc88fy9rMBON+8b6uP0KJD7f/RKrc/UxkpEl/gWdqruuvC4kNk NklgCO4WkgvR8fCTGFkHnZpRg1L0cq0cD7IFeicZ+/TOki9wgJ3GHYg1HlLGtZuvno 20jtKIqbpd3R68VB3MfGyeHV6m/P9Y6p7tdzMkAY= To: Christopher Wood , pearg@irtf.org References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:16:24 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9Scppqq86I6E6IC1PnxcMHpaI92fHJwQQ" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:16:31 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --9Scppqq86I6E6IC1PnxcMHpaI92fHJwQQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="bC3TvgmaP9Ox4EXvo0QrZpazJex4UYT3l"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Christopher Wood , pearg@irtf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> --bC3TvgmaP9Ox4EXvo0QrZpazJex4UYT3l Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FE5F1B5071A6349357060CED" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FE5F1B5071A6349357060CED Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 13/11/2020 17:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >=20 > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like > to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an > interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. > Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! I'd attend if possible. One topic I'd like to see covered is: when is one person's use-case another person's abuse-case? ISTM the exact same behaviour can be judged as fine or abusive depending on the circumstances and actors involved. I think it'd be good to try be more explicitly aware of that and to maybe consider if there's a preponderance of evidence for one view or the other in some cases. I don't really have presentation material or work-done on that but am willing to ask awkward questions of others if that's of any use;-) Ta, S. --------------FE5F1B5071A6349357060CED Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY 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--9Scppqq86I6E6IC1PnxcMHpaI92fHJwQQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAl+y3hgFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+qM 6g/8CmBkJXiQ5s4vNynaHS10wGVcLv7JdHWLNmeKNLhENk6YeXFpSa0Y/4TAyg4HW9Qrik8i0fDj 9zz2dLAu4LBFwR6KIn/qoqqOjtznfosrr263tofewQl4mp6JbNYG+0m39vYkIm7J8qYvu4hhOrqk AUuJrPmQpFafuocDu9LMpPOu6uFjqfUUfizLu4p04JRBuetNOkiYuWxyk1cLVXMm0n6leryjlgDa kAgfSgO853auo0MvHrCK1OlIjMiFJmqMRSuKeMF3wTWiZiyzbyehs2vkHsICN5NKJVmQteRu62tA x3I2bFo0k1vfCel2Qh9blvrG3Pw+7vCcimAkxdBj2jLg3O8CJRgwSTxRt149P3hWburefCN7PrWH vFGtMcyWXRHF4Um+CXpKHNbgV6htOGQvBAQB402W/GdF/Wyq8A3EAOpzoedM4+4CyIoN9RWbmBGz +0e+3tDJ4HB63M80OlY/0yGKC7i9xOj6OL/ulzPe20lROK2dW6BQcyapQT+XVRBuSvoUZSlZTZoD smgP+o72eGUxwgK+rZbz2kZcn/Hm8E6dOdHpHRxeXEPUf9lP70ZCeE2M7XnjE+B+N1hz/wqCylma 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:19:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Research Group RG of the IRTF. Title : Guidelines for Performing Safe Measurement on the Internet Authors : Iain R. Learmonth Gurshabad Grover Filename : draft-irtf-pearg-safe-internet-measurement-04.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2020-11-16 Abstract: Researchers from industry and academia often use Internet measurements as part of their work. While these measurements can give insight into the functioning and usage of the Internet, they can come at the cost of user privacy. This document describes guidelines for ensuring that such measurements can be carried out safely. Note Comments are solicited and should be addressed to the research group's mailing list at pearg@irtf.org and/or the author(s). The sources for this draft are at: https://github.com/irl/draft-safe-internet-measurement The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-pearg-safe-internet-measurement/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-safe-internet-measurement-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-pearg-safe-internet-measurement-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-pearg-safe-internet-measurement-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 16 15:51:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE67B3A16F7 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:51:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PT4xqCrQHmxd for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E4A03A16F2 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CZm7D0gvgzFdtn; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:51:20 -0800 (PST) X-Riseup-User-ID: CE5A38072D4870A3CE6FD3785FAFB86A94713D81E792EC35026986E151661D8A Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CZm6T3kBczJn6Z; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:50:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:50:28 +0000 From: Matthew Finkel To: Christopher Wood , Brad Lassey Cc: Chelsea Komlo , Fernando Gont , Dimitris Theodorakis , pearg@irtf.org Message-ID: <20201116235028.6msateehdc4emb2d@localhost> References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:51:37 -0000 Hi Chris, everyone, Someone from Tor (probably me) will be very willing to be included in this and present Tor as an existing, deployed system that provides IP address privacy. I can be a point of contact for now, and I'll talk with other Tor people in case someone else wants to present instead. Thanks for organizing this. Matt On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:17:42AM -0500, Brad Lassey wrote: > Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as well. > > -Brad > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo > wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > > > I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the > > privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other > > mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). > > > > Chelsea > > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey > 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > >> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful > >> IP Blindness. > >> > >> -Brad > >> > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, Chris, > >>> > >>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: > >>> > >>> * RFC7707 > >>> * RFC7721 > >>> * RFC7217 > >>> * RFC8064 > >>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis > >>> > >>> That said, my comments and questions are: > >>> > >>> * I'd be interested in attending > >>> > >>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any > >>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible > >>> future work up for discussion?) > >>> > >>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest. > >>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to > >>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Fernando > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: > >>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic > >>> of IP address privacy. > >>> > > >>> > IP address uses: > >>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection > >>> > - Geo IP > >>> > - Ad targeting > >>> > - ... others? > >>> > > >>> > Privacy attacks: > >>> > - IP re-identification > >>> > - IP-based fingerprinting > >>> > > >>> > IP hiding or blindness: > >>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) > >>> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) > >>> > > >>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn > >>> it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. > >>> > > >>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to > >>> hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, > >>> and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, > >>> suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! > >>> > > >>> > Best, > >>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Fernando Gont > >>> SI6 Networks > >>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > >>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Pearg mailing list > >>> Pearg@irtf.org > >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > >>> > >> -- > >> Pearg mailing list > >> Pearg@irtf.org > >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > >> > > > > > > -- > > Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com > > -- > > Pearg mailing list > > Pearg@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > > > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg From nobody Mon Nov 16 23:10:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF37B3A10F3 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:10:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2UKrui4yinAX for ; 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Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:10:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:10:39 +0100 (CET) From: Vittorio Bertola To: Christopher Wood , pearg@irtf.org Message-ID: <1202974683.41350.1605597039808@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> In-Reply-To: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.4-Rev10 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:10:46 -0000 > Il 13/11/2020 18:23 Christopher Wood ha scritto: > > > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic of IP address privacy. > > IP address uses: > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection > - Geo IP > - Ad targeting > - ... others? > > Privacy attacks: > - IP re-identification > - IP-based fingerprinting > > IP hiding or blindness: > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) > > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. > > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! Thanks to today's dnsop session, I just realized how much work is going on to create large scale automated mechanisms for distributing and updating lists of associations between IP addresses and physical locations, potentially up to the level of a postal code. So yes, I think that it is quite necessary to discuss how to prevent this from becoming a real-time directory of where each fixed line Internet user is, and I'd be happy to join. -- Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy From nobody Mon Nov 16 23:29:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737813A1140 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:29:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bUCDti9FuvfK for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:29:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D19123A113B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:29:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2800:810:464:8164:9e8:73db:6854:150f] (unknown [IPv6:2800:810:464:8164:9e8:73db:6854:150f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B35F284F83; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:29:32 +0000 (UTC) To: Vittorio Bertola , Christopher Wood , pearg@irtf.org References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <1202974683.41350.1605597039808@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> From: Fernando Gont Message-ID: <1eae1566-f521-197e-52e5-7f0031ce3d44@gont.com.ar> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 04:29:15 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1202974683.41350.1605597039808@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:29:40 -0000 On 17/11/20 04:10, Vittorio Bertola wrote: [...] >> >> IP hiding or blindness: >> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >> >> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >> >> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! > > Thanks to today's dnsop session, I just realized how much work is going on to create large scale automated mechanisms for distributing and updating lists of associations between IP addresses and physical locations, potentially up to the level of a postal code. So yes, I think that it is quite necessary to discuss how to prevent this from becoming a real-time directory of where each fixed line Internet user is, and I'd be happy to join. Most likely you won't prevent *this* (address <-> location). But you might prevent address <--> your location via tor, vpns, etc. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 From nobody Mon Nov 16 23:45:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412553A1181 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:45:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KTychOa2rMKj for ; 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Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:45:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:45:23 +0100 (CET) From: Vittorio Bertola To: Fernando Gont , pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood Message-ID: <1950394760.41765.1605599123980@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> In-Reply-To: <1eae1566-f521-197e-52e5-7f0031ce3d44@gont.com.ar> References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <1202974683.41350.1605597039808@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <1eae1566-f521-197e-52e5-7f0031ce3d44@gont.com.ar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.4-Rev10 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] [EXT] Re: Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:45:28 -0000 > Il 17/11/2020 08:29 Fernando Gont ha scritto: > > Most likely you won't prevent *this* (address <-> location). But you > might prevent address <--> your location via tor, vpns, etc. Possibly you are right. However, I don't think that the people that want that kind of information really need (or want) to know the exact building you are in. If it's mostly done to determine a) network position for content delivery optimization and b) applicable jurisdiction, perhaps the I?TF could come up with best practices that recommend ways to do that without exceeding in the amount of information, so that even the average user that has no idea of what Tor is, and does not want to pay for a VPN, can enjoy a reasonable degree of privacy. -- Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy From nobody Mon Nov 16 23:47:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B21D3A118B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:47:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FIIDVq60cVMW for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:47:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 989363A1187 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:47:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8707; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1605599264; x=1606808864; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=bpU/yKB7B8uT32vGZiVDoDTcOSkeDb5xl/R9snNiIl4=; b=PBops47K9S+gbmh4yjyXb2GLrx0H3qFLigafAZNGEPLfClxLSVCdU6WB wmpgKoYWHMUa8bRuZ1jOgwMLFlRn6H+fBCOeeVhANyuAje+vMJmjKlZQj weBgychyCjL0b2dYfxxnTIJg8LD+9d9r450kfXkwlQr3xVw89V79PzIea k=; X-Files: signature.asc : 488 X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BvBABmf7Nf/xbLJq1iHQEBAQEJARIBBQUBQIFPgSNSN?= =?us-ascii?q?UmBAAEgEi6NQYggh2qMKogZBAcBAQEKAwEBLwQBAYRKAoIiJjgTAgMBAQEDA?= =?us-ascii?q?gMBAQEBBQEBAQIBBgRxhW2FcgEBAQMBaw4FCwsYLlcGE4MmAYJmIK1IdIE0h?= =?us-ascii?q?VeEWBCBOIFTi14qggCBESccgiEuPogIgiwEnEWbboJ3gxuBN4siiyQDH6F5s?= =?us-ascii?q?ESDZAIEBgUCFYFrI4FXMxoIGxVlAYI+PhIZDZxpQAMwNwIGCgEBAwmOSAEB?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.77,484,1596499200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="31176916" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 17 Nov 2020 07:47:40 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-99-159.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-99-159.cisco.com [10.61.99.159]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 0AH7lceX029083 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:47:40 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <0876C3DE-62F4-410B-9F68-9A5FBFC5CA7B@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_826A74BD-3C8E-426A-8EB6-CC1A7045A3CB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:47:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: Christopher Wood , pearg@irtf.org To: Stephen Farrell References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.99.159, dhcp-10-61-99-159.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:47:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_826A74BD-3C8E-426A-8EB6-CC1A7045A3CB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0CB2219F-2E5F-463D-9FD1-CE1C50FF8E3C" --Apple-Mail=_0CB2219F-2E5F-463D-9FD1-CE1C50FF8E3C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 16 Nov 2020, at 21:16, Stephen Farrell = wrote: >=20 > One topic I'd like to see covered is: when is one person's > use-case another person's abuse-case? ISTM the exact same > behaviour can be judged as fine or abusive depending on the > circumstances and actors involved. I think it'd be good to > try be more explicitly aware of that and to maybe consider > if there's a preponderance of evidence for one view or the > other in some cases. Another way of putting this is that there are legitimate reasons to want = to know who is it that is DOSing me, and who do I contact? Early work = on take downs and Pharma spam has shown that sometimes time is of the = essence in order to kill economic incentives for poor behavior. So what = does this mean in terms of privacy? I can talk a little about this, but = the experts are really in Cambridge and at UCSD. Eliot --Apple-Mail=_0CB2219F-2E5F-463D-9FD1-CE1C50FF8E3C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On 16 Nov 2020, at 21:16, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:

One topic I'd like to see = covered is: when is one person's
use-case another person's abuse-case? ISTM the exact = same
behaviour can = be judged as fine or abusive depending on the
circumstances and actors = involved. I think it'd be good to
try be more explicitly aware of that and to maybe = consider
if there's a = preponderance of evidence for one view or the
other in some = cases.

Another way of putting this is that there are legitimate = reasons to want to know who is it that is DOSing me, and who do I = contact?  Early work on take downs and Pharma spam has shown that = sometimes time is of the essence in order to kill economic incentives = for poor behavior.  So what does this mean in terms of privacy? =  I can talk a little about this, but the experts are really in = Cambridge and at UCSD.

Eliot
= --Apple-Mail=_0CB2219F-2E5F-463D-9FD1-CE1C50FF8E3C-- --Apple-Mail=_826A74BD-3C8E-426A-8EB6-CC1A7045A3CB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEmNC9kEYdsJKnsmEdh7ZrRtnSejMFAl+zgBoACgkQh7ZrRtnS ejOkLgf/Wav3PHgt4OFxl7hdNbrJ48rZ/OB36tx9q7psUyTK0QnqYCetkDbPUhpJ BFeMC2+gAOCWTF8TIbQokkAF2RIxUYeJREXwQyuNN2OhTYbnq7dbYj6B2s5oCkWk SQqOPi86qLBaA+CRygv/Xq5I1MVWXmF9unrYT8T3iA4Uzi+Lv2L5mvpfmxKkagXf sx27QLnlv0JjLaCe/tjKjYoi3IPiX5VMp4bc9hJ/R6DaHfqkJp9npcuZSAqdS8wq CJ6VzsRyhEU0dMV8B4IqI0Bgt7pdWGaK9b1cTgnw+mtAM5PTelF++q9bC5P3h9PK azih1mbjsNM4m25yi9nU3ztquCdVpg== =6WYJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_826A74BD-3C8E-426A-8EB6-CC1A7045A3CB-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 00:17:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A883A074B for ; 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Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:42 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3R9a-PNow5Sg; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5AC53BE5D; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:40 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1605601060; bh=bwkMLEZo+lFg5x7QKTGftrfVqAbMkJ0opYslLdBgSXs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Xavzm4pbKZCpQGTNuomU2G0Al8Cafg6hRaspnTqMdKU6WSJrcRDMl1910JSEmsOfP TUgf99JqxNbkSXKSNa9/h1/3+qHu5J+rv6lt42xqAI1GdE0iSdGdH39RXYRH0jLPEV aF6zEUbs1IBrVdLOP3tSnK2JS1P1k9byJaBUjWdc= To: Eliot Lear Cc: pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <0876C3DE-62F4-410B-9F68-9A5FBFC5CA7B@cisco.com> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <6aaac899-1a0a-ac18-c5c3-f6572ef7887c@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:39 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0876C3DE-62F4-410B-9F68-9A5FBFC5CA7B@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0Xe1CogtjmpgebpbtWsZsJ2tYuJYekFPj" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0Xe1CogtjmpgebpbtWsZsJ2tYuJYekFPj Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3btxlAjfhq6PrlgGFBfIslKCaw38NzyGC"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Eliot Lear Cc: pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood Message-ID: <6aaac899-1a0a-ac18-c5c3-f6572ef7887c@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <0876C3DE-62F4-410B-9F68-9A5FBFC5CA7B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0876C3DE-62F4-410B-9F68-9A5FBFC5CA7B@cisco.com> --3btxlAjfhq6PrlgGFBfIslKCaw38NzyGC Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1F0BB89F1C54E2F3AF308B07" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1F0BB89F1C54E2F3AF308B07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 17/11/2020 07:47, Eliot Lear wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On 16 Nov 2020, at 21:16, Stephen Farrell >> wrote: >>=20 >> One topic I'd like to see covered is: when is one person's use-case >> another person's abuse-case? ISTM the exact same behaviour can be >> judged as fine or abusive depending on the circumstances and actors >> involved. I think it'd be good to try be more explicitly aware of >> that and to maybe consider if there's a preponderance of evidence >> for one view or the other in some cases. >=20 > Another way of putting this is that there are legitimate reasons to > want to know who is it that is DOSing me, and who do I contact? So yes, to the extent that the text above presents a use-case without ack'ing that there could be related abuse-case(s), e.g., there are probably many illegitimate reasons to want to know who is it that is using an address. Cheers, S. > Early work on take downs and Pharma spam has shown that sometimes > time is of the essence in order to kill economic incentives for poor > behavior. So what does this mean in terms of privacy? I can talk a > little about this, but the experts are really in Cambridge and at > UCSD. >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 --------------1F0BB89F1C54E2F3AF308B07 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY 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with SMTP id y11mr1025457wrr.177.1605640200015; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 11:10:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: David Turner Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 11:09:47 -0800 Message-ID: To: pearg@irtf.org, Per Bjorke Cc: Dimitris Theodorakis , Christopher Wood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c2ed2805b4523db0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 19:10:07 -0000 --000000000000c2ed2805b4523db0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" +Per Bjorke On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner wrote: > I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the Google Ad > Traffic Quality team. > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> I'd very much be interested in attending. >> >> -Paul >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey > 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >> >>> Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as well. >>> >>> -Brad >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Chris, >>>> >>>> I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the >>>> privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other >>>> mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). >>>> >>>> Chelsea >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey >>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on >>>>> Willful IP Blindness. >>>>> >>>>> -Brad >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Chris, >>>>>> >>>>>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >>>>>> >>>>>> * RFC7707 >>>>>> * RFC7721 >>>>>> * RFC7217 >>>>>> * RFC8064 >>>>>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, my comments and questions are: >>>>>> >>>>>> * I'd be interested in attending >>>>>> >>>>>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have >>>>>> any >>>>>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible >>>>>> future work up for discussion?) >>>>>> >>>>>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of >>>>>> interest. >>>>>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to >>>>>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Fernando >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >>>>>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the >>>>>> topic of IP address privacy. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > IP address uses: >>>>>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >>>>>> > - Geo IP >>>>>> > - Ad targeting >>>>>> > - ... others? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Privacy attacks: >>>>>> > - IP re-identification >>>>>> > - IP-based fingerprinting >>>>>> > >>>>>> > IP hiding or blindness: >>>>>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >>>>>> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might >>>>>> turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like >>>>>> to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an >>>>>> interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of >>>>>> course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Best, >>>>>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Fernando Gont >>>>>> SI6 Networks >>>>>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >>>>>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com >>>> -- >>>> Pearg mailing list >>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>> >>> -- >>> Pearg mailing list >>> Pearg@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> > --000000000000c2ed2805b4523db0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Per Bjorke=C2=A0

On M= on, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
I'm also interested in att= ending and presenting on behalf of the Google Ad Traffic Quality team.
On Mo= n, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen <pauljensen=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attendin= g.

-Paul

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad = Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Dimitris from White= ops has expressed=C2=A0interest in participating as well.

-Brad

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo <chelsea.komlo@gmail.c= om> wrote:
Hi Chris,

I recommend that someone fr= om Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy properties provided by = tools like Tor differ from some of the other mechanisms presented (like VPN= s or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0

Chelsea

On = Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org= > wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attendin= g as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness.
-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando = Gont <fgont@s= i6networks.com> wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--
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https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
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https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg


--
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https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
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Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:41:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32a.google.com (mail-wm1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52B213A0DD3 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:41:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id s13so4116437wmh.4 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:41:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=o/XPCdsw1xIqR1Kc4zmLDbi2yf3KYFMoGd3B2d5e7qo=; b=TzHLAVpEissFITWK+iO+N1WAvxM/aSkZq2qtq5dswxMju7K0dstk3RFwkBwiNfu9Uf w6vov8kENTy0mIejHNRlhzQQ22ahKqWFIc003gGRfqx08P12csk450eecFW5nccptwfb J/4bd8jsG2QyMPwszLOHQpo3gKunGWVq+Ilg4Alc5TPrxcbwxVxg4Wbh4Ejc94R6B2/J lrCQyg4ipXh9N3PFu3Q/hiE+7T/Wr+Y8rD3OXvpyDTJAuppV2dp5LkAVzx1RNCWGQjdM CfbEi49hcCu96uar0d04MY3WnXUbB+w90RJRkvQafaCCkJ1tXBdBqE4bFu/Mlcn7mA1+ 6jYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=o/XPCdsw1xIqR1Kc4zmLDbi2yf3KYFMoGd3B2d5e7qo=; b=JM7gd96phN5+klbyfFkq6zyvPPahUs4odcwlcFylO4wdtY2yqiVzRtNBkoVAp5SolB 6tbNo7a/PPeavB9MXVLlQzIfMBWLRdemYxKjQ9f7KOin/mVv7nvnhuTig5wt/Fu+6oUK eCq04tWkqRtUV/YpjQQglFe7uh+G8KDfYE8RVNILIF9kJanCxPKbZVq3DKmTEffteQWF /CgHURnzuJ+8x0J5na095BfhxGxdRESh1tN5gRrddahC/VKICrS0SEQbRQQXqdbCMWFl 6CPyqI/3p7oValHDpTLvS2yUJhVewv5NZEQo7TSqSANda0toSsAHBBmJPNJkRJ4wHBlW ysyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ziqP4FPK40BqwwIdPHD+C6OvD7tJYeBPlmVIeHBgGq9bgR27J ITN/SOwOtNX9IWzwKYWTqYE3Vq8gR6nKLHe1vT0sLw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwWM8kzHYvuw2hnhBSsiDwC+kJgdYfk+sU15+sFIOQiY+5DEolCDAMd5rXZBWUHGWvYCWwvdAyzXW8DBOpxAvo= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:b6c5:: with SMTP id g188mr1097736wmf.1.1605735716342; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:41:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: David Turner Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:41:43 -0800 Message-ID: To: Philipp Pfeiffenberger Cc: pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fa5dc805b4687a65" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 21:42:10 -0000 --000000000000fa5dc805b4687a65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" + Philipp On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke wrote: > I'm also interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid traffic/ad > fraud team together with David Turner). > > Thanks. > > Per > > > Per Bjorke | Sr Product Manager, Ad Traffic Quality | bjorke@google.com | > 650-245-3105 > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:10 AM David Turner wrote: > >> +Per Bjorke >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner wrote: >> >>> I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the Google >>> Ad Traffic Quality team. >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen >> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I'd very much be interested in attending. >>>> >>>> -Paul >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey >>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as well. >>>>> >>>>> -Brad >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo < >>>>> chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>>> >>>>>> I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how >>>>>> the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the >>>>>> other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). >>>>>> >>>>>> Chelsea >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey >>>>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on >>>>>>> Willful IP Blindness. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Brad >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, Chris, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * RFC7707 >>>>>>>> * RFC7721 >>>>>>>> * RFC7217 >>>>>>>> * RFC8064 >>>>>>>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That said, my comments and questions are: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * I'd be interested in attending >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible >>>>>>>> future work up for discussion?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of >>>>>>>> interest. >>>>>>>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to >>>>>>>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Fernando >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >>>>>>>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the >>>>>>>> topic of IP address privacy. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > IP address uses: >>>>>>>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >>>>>>>> > - Geo IP >>>>>>>> > - Ad targeting >>>>>>>> > - ... others? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Privacy attacks: >>>>>>>> > - IP re-identification >>>>>>>> > - IP-based fingerprinting >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > IP hiding or blindness: >>>>>>>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >>>>>>>> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might >>>>>>>> turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd >>>>>>>> like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an >>>>>>>> interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of >>>>>>>> course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Best, >>>>>>>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Fernando Gont >>>>>>>> SI6 Networks >>>>>>>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >>>>>>>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Pearg mailing list >>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>> >>> --000000000000fa5dc805b4687a65 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+ Philipp

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke &= lt;bjorke@google.com> wrote:
I= 'm also interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid traff= ic/ad fraud team together with David Turner).

Thanks.

Per


Per Bjork= e |=C2=A0Sr Produ= ct Manager, Ad Traffic Quality |=C2=A0bjorke@google.com=C2=A0|=C2=A0650-245-3105
=


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11= :10 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
+Per Bjorke=C2=A0<= br>

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
I'= ;m also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the Google Ad T= raffic Quality team.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen <pauljen= sen=3D40go= ogle.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much = be interested in attending.

-Paul

On Mon, Nov 1= 6, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrot= e:
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed=C2=A0interest in participating as = well.

-Brad

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Ch= elsea Komlo <chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Chris,

I re= commend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy = properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other mechani= sms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0

Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey= =3D40googl= e.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much b= e interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness.

-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13,= 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--
Pearg mailing list
Pear= g@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg


--
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--000000000000fa5dc805b4687a65-- From nobody Wed Nov 18 13:43:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9243A0CDF for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:43:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rICuoUyH67HF for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (mail-wr1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 429D03A0BBA for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id r17so3763402wrw.1 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:43:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fQCF1YdO7h6JP5c818wJFpy7WFs4Z6JZV3R1aYrk9i4=; b=NDnzEYmFlfiBXf5/GCZD9qOo30pIWgib+1EAkY2vzEN2jEm4iIoeFLaiaRxHXbkJRL JTAaXmfUOOxkRv0fSj7DcoAoInkKpGzevzwnCELDDWFFebPhUPsFFpo5Y0RfCgVcnLLP Lh4q/RE6g4JrfuxjqsFWCYPr7KrkpMWoAgkYub8a1Nl6OzdUqw1v0XZg2srGblBWlDLQ 2pQMXAuZOR80t+nqaEO2NeiDFnoFwXBiTMSJ4sQYw/xouKbbeMrM6VRd2GUrUuv2GTQU Lh2AgjegXP6ucH1nKsIv5pRfxd/wuEhQb7RLZ2/5Tf05tO8hfrc/cM0NuM6WIb1pClfB aSWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fQCF1YdO7h6JP5c818wJFpy7WFs4Z6JZV3R1aYrk9i4=; b=mVd0EZUIc5oWC8QHlegWijru7iMiaXhssbXKpX3M0M62AkgdplqU+zbdlhsf5C+0a2 TXEhMx0mwBoclzZhkENztUfJnw0935vLbU/ykSU9KsQtwGKGNTfbzlIHe5bXYDYxciYI Uk2Twkdrgv6yo5NBqf1PVMKJJHuxeHg08a6k+Jt00ktRtRLorjWC1exS5YKMjb+Glbn8 930rfgbP/e26GqK6uv6d4th2jkEEbqBtQjKhbA+M47519tLvegRIa1H6h2nmN+Pw2I5t 538KrG4YZiJ3u6nguD8hcAGOATBt7hHLYd0byey/rwru/EciUAod9faqAKXSmFiNsQiJ 8eFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530QsFtFbCiW8lrqvP9P5jrEF0dvbNNpGq/25mcw9zPcL66/nIX/ PTRf9xP/gCBGTDVlfo9YWLQZVvCONHHuAER9+RR9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwUWuvVjR3uQH9IiwtbjzDtZiPsDVmKAHxk7eZm2Xv+wNqR9GaglK68LfzQZkzFyq8Cj4CapQHEbXcrLbRmZB4= X-Received: by 2002:adf:cd02:: with SMTP id w2mr6708361wrm.3.1605735798482; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:43:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Philipp Pfeiffenberger Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:43:05 -0800 Message-ID: To: David Turner Cc: pearg@irtf.org, Christopher Wood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dfb70105b4687fab" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 21:43:23 -0000 --000000000000dfb70105b4687fab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am also interested in attending, representing YouTube Trust & Safety. On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:41 PM David Turner wrote: > + Philipp > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke wrote: > >> I'm also interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid traffic/ad >> fraud team together with David Turner). >> >> Thanks. >> >> Per >> >> >> Per Bjorke | Sr Product Manager, Ad Traffic Quality | bjorke@google.com | >> 650-245-3105 >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:10 AM David Turner >> wrote: >> >>> +Per Bjorke >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the Google >>>> Ad Traffic Quality team. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen >>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd very much be interested in attending. >>>>> >>>>> -Paul >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey >>>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as >>>>>> well. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Brad >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo < >>>>>> chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how >>>>>>> the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the >>>>>>> other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chelsea >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey >>>>>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on >>>>>>>> Willful IP Blindness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Brad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Chris, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * RFC7707 >>>>>>>>> * RFC7721 >>>>>>>>> * RFC7217 >>>>>>>>> * RFC8064 >>>>>>>>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That said, my comments and questions are: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * I'd be interested in attending >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is possible >>>>>>>>> future work up for discussion?) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of >>>>>>>>> interest. >>>>>>>>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Fernando >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >>>>>>>>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the >>>>>>>>> topic of IP address privacy. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > IP address uses: >>>>>>>>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >>>>>>>>> > - Geo IP >>>>>>>>> > - Ad targeting >>>>>>>>> > - ... others? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Privacy attacks: >>>>>>>>> > - IP re-identification >>>>>>>>> > - IP-based fingerprinting >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > IP hiding or blindness: >>>>>>>>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >>>>>>>>> > - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness >>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might >>>>>>>>> turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd >>>>>>>>> like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an >>>>>>>>> interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of >>>>>>>>> course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Best, >>>>>>>>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Fernando Gont >>>>>>>>> SI6 Networks >>>>>>>>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >>>>>>>>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>> >>>> --000000000000dfb70105b4687fab Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am also interested in attending, representing YouTube Trust &am= p; Safety.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:41 PM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
+ Philipp<= br>

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke <bjorke@google.com> wrote:
I'm al= so interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid traffic/ad fra= ud team together with David Turner).

Thanks.

Per


Per Bjorke |=C2=A0Sr Product Manage= r, Ad Traffic Quality |=C2=A0bjorke@google.com=C2=A0|=C2=A0650-245-3105
=


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:10 AM Da= vid Turner <dbt= urner@google.com> wrote:

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com&g= t; wrote:
I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of= the Google Ad Traffic Quality team.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Je= nsen <pauljensen=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I&= #39;d very much be interested in attending.

-Paul

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.= org> wrote:
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed=C2=A0interest in p= articipating as well.

-Brad

On Sat, Nov 14, 202= 0 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo <chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Chris,
I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on = how the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of t= he other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0

Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad La= ssey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I= 9;d very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful I= P Blindness.

-Brad
=

= On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest= .
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic = of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/b= slassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn i= t into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd lik= e to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an = interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of= course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
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--000000000000dfb70105b4687fab-- From nobody Mon Nov 23 09:46:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99CA3A0C47 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:46:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sinodun.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E5zIVC4TZgwz for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from balrog.mythic-beasts.com (balrog.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 359713A0BFD for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:46:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sinodun.com ; s=mythic-beasts-k1; h=To:Date:Subject:From; bh=/TDs4OZ8poTMCIFC2jP+U/HH2XiyhMIexsT9BVi2VC8=; b=WpZFDLE85Nnkv/NRiCDNOjGM7W F+yt66MaSOiJYtycHMOmlZlL2vt0I38MJPWyPTw1MryNyzW3NiqDVd4SqRmQ2+SqVRzoMKMZra/mt 1KQ3E1ZSODcnqZC63aePWTudmrkfaP+gdkh4WSLjrg+kEjLjBvtJ0Sxs0nhVi5DR1zTAjrgDf0wFw /JCCCkBe3NTJjbDrNipCZq6/0p3CCKb9Q7egY+ng1/hHR5OLVJeH1gXkSFMhrDFOpYxJCey+UB02u WzOvdX5wGULEVIepb1rjPLh3rAGhPpQVnXnbWh9XCSUOuq/rJYrAjk3JRTy7HawhVYSTCyFwVRr1D m6knFl8A==; Received: from [62.232.251.194] (port=30306 helo=[172.27.240.2]) by balrog.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1khFvH-0005jB-1H for Pearg@irtf.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 17:46:47 +0000 From: Sara Dickinson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F2B5BFB1-6A89-4205-9B2A-1AB49D142656" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 17:46:41 +0000 References: <7EA41E81-03A5-47A6-BBF1-B649F9BEA3DE@sinodun.com> <17BE08D7-1262-4111-AAF9-D746999D4FA4@sinodun.com> To: Pearg@irtf.org In-Reply-To: <17BE08D7-1262-4111-AAF9-D746999D4FA4@sinodun.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 14 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Research Group Last Call for draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 17:46:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F2B5BFB1-6A89-4205-9B2A-1AB49D142656 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi All,=20 With only minor comments received we=E2=80=99ll be progressing this = document beyond RGLC. Authors - please respond to the comments and = submit a revised I-D! Best regards Sara, on behalf of the chairs. =20 > On 16 Nov 2020, at 17:39, Sara Dickinson wrote: >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > Just a reminder that this RGLC ends in 2 days on Wednesday 18th Nov.=20= >=20 > We have not had any reviews to date, comments are still welcome. The = draft will move forward unless we hear any objections! >=20 > Best regards >=20 > Sara, on behalf of the chairs.=20 >=20 >> On 4 Nov 2020, at 13:34, Sara Dickinson > wrote: >>=20 >> Hi All,=20 >>=20 >> This email starts a two week Research Group Last Call for the draft = 'Unfortunate History of Transient Numeric Identifiers. The draft is = available at: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-history-03 = >>=20 >> Please review this document and send comments to the list. >>=20 >> This RGLC ends on 18th Nov 2020. >>=20 >> Thanks >>=20 >> Sara, on behalf of the chairs.=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> P.S. Please note that a separate RGLC will be started for the related = draft 'On the Generation of Transient Numeric Identifiers=E2=80=99 = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-generation-03 = ) = immediately after this RGLC closes.=20 >> --=20 >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >=20 > --=20 > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg --Apple-Mail=_F2B5BFB1-6A89-4205-9B2A-1AB49D142656 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = All, 

With only = minor comments received we=E2=80=99ll be progressing this document = beyond RGLC. Authors - please respond to the comments and submit a = revised I-D!

Best regards

Sara, on behalf of the chairs.
 

On 16 Nov 2020, at 17:39, Sara = Dickinson <sara@sinodun.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Just a reminder that this RGLC ends in 2 = days on Wednesday 18th Nov. 

We have not had any reviews to date, = comments are still welcome. The draft will move forward unless we hear = any objections!

Best regards

Sara, on behalf of the = chairs. 

On 4 Nov 2020, at 13:34, Sara = Dickinson <sara@sinodun.com> wrote:

Hi All, 

This email starts a two week Research Group = Last Call for the draft 'Unfortunate History of Transient Numeric = Identifiers. The draft is available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-histor= y-03

Please review this document and = send comments to the list.

This RGLC ends = on 18th Nov 2020.

Thanks

Sara, on behalf of the chairs. 


P.S.= Please note that a separate RGLC will be started for the related draft = 'On the Generation of Transient Numeric Identifiers=E2=80=99 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-pearg-numeric-ids-genera= tion-03) immediately after this RGLC closes. 
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= --Apple-Mail=_F2B5BFB1-6A89-4205-9B2A-1AB49D142656-- From nobody Wed Nov 25 12:25:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD1C3A1C99 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:25:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=article19.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yno46mt7YD6C for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D4883A1C94 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:25:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=article19.org; s=mail; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/mOhWXk2wDfyYm0XpZokrFHt9NLGjZik8iIqCapGBLY=; b=RzwVXM4JOgcwhO0bQQhmixiBL ZWdnHbUlNS6ulNdjsP+RNCqcKrJz28F1aICdAg5t4p+L2M7js38SvXwXm0O1+ZVKv0rLaUtYPlKi5 ePZp3eFnIoLA5rxWgT+GZK6jKdbsAlymCFSazLN10FD8OWK1Y7xUQmOvkwpJkHKc7Sd28=; To: pearg@irtf.org References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> From: Joey S Autocrypt: addr=joeysalazar@article19.org; keydata= mDMEXZTRnBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAR3jTF7OBMWWAdkeA/J2YINHL+F73joqExbmXuMyaSbi0 IkpvZXkgUyA8am9leXNhbGF6YXJAYXJ0aWNsZTE5Lm9yZz6IlgQTFggAPhYhBG6cleVb7ZQT XQhV1QpAQTYN8BqRBQJdlNGcAhsDBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJ EApAQTYN8BqRUG4BAJlToAdbX8ybZY/YEE6Cx9MWMw5UAc3PNxtsqBjxT+wwAQDwnkiVMvS5 919yL+Hql44fdZSA2Uu75Xlc4Zz57S5fB7g4BF2U0ZwSCisGAQQBl1UBBQEBB0B0/M0aJaYC uThNCIaFiPrneHwKTCA91gjgthVzKNg6EwMBCAeIfgQYFggAJhYhBG6cleVb7ZQTXQhV1QpA QTYN8BqRBQJdlNGcAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEApAQTYN8BqROEYA/3LPYUyagV/7uKHN62bBa6UW dfqgIn6ie7XOw+jPy1tgAP40i23dbN7AAnZ5CljjLbRsbVF6YlDe1nZHcAo3/xZiCg== Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:24:50 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KwNX6k7jpaAAfOxnLEX5MuGzJKQCROtlt" X-Authenticated-As-Hash: 3c8a76879922505f22521320ab57e3bbe25ea7cc X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.greenhost.nl X-Scan-Signature: 29fcc4fa45042af83c69913c9d2e2203 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 20:25:07 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --KwNX6k7jpaAAfOxnLEX5MuGzJKQCROtlt Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="C97zamrbve3OUhqXQv9MmlZ95PI3cHqKj" --C97zamrbve3OUhqXQv9MmlZ95PI3cHqKj Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 interested in attending
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ARTICLE 19
6E9C 95E5 5BED 9413 5D08 55D5 0A40 4136 0DF0 1A91
On 18-Nov-20 3:43 PM, Philipp Pfeiffenberger wrote:
I am also interested in attending, representing YouTube Trust & Safety.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:4= 1 PM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
=
+ Philipp

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at= 11:19 AM Per Bjorke <bjorke@google.= com> wrote:
I'm also interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid traffic/ad fraud team together with David Turner).

Thanks.

Per


Per Bjorke |= =C2=A0Sr Product Manager, Ad Traffic Quality |=C2=A0bjorke@google.com=C2=A0|=C2=A0650-245-3105


On Tue, Nov 17, 202= 0 at 11:10 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:

On Mon, Nov 16,= 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner <dbturn= er@google.com> wrote:
I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the Google Ad Traffic Quality team.

On Mon, Nov= 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen <pauljensen=3D40= google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attending.

-Paul

On Mo= n, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed=C2=A0interest in participating as well.

-Brad

O= n Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo <chelsea.ko= mlo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Chris,

I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0

Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40goog= le.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much= be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness.

-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fg= ont@si6networks.com> wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis<= br>
That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0= Or is possible
future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest.
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification > - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:<= br> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (ht= tps://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!<= br> >
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fg= ont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




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--C97zamrbve3OUhqXQv9MmlZ95PI3cHqKj-- --KwNX6k7jpaAAfOxnLEX5MuGzJKQCROtlt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQRunJXlW+2UE10IVdUKQEE2DfAakQUCX769kgAKCRAKQEE2DfAa kWINAP9TMFhLX6bwCF7RoCtrYgkU/S+FObFH03f2DhaShUNAFAD+J01YN86D7FsS s/eS+t73Oukpv9/o7+DRLmZPHnSmzgs= =BN7F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KwNX6k7jpaAAfOxnLEX5MuGzJKQCROtlt-- From nobody Wed Nov 25 18:42:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11703A0BE3 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:42:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mr0fqNMrcHqh for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE0093A0BE9 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse295.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.41] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx16.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ki7EL-0001Us-IF for pearg@irtf.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 03:42:07 +0100 Received: from xsmtp21.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.60]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ChMTs589Zz8xCT for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.49] (helo=xmail11.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ki7EH-0003en-IY for pearg@irtf.org; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:41:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 24959 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2020 02:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.105]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.222]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail11.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 26 Nov 2020 02:41:52 -0000 To: Joey S , pearg@irtf.org References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> From: Christian Huitema Message-ID: <9a0e6845-e859-1678-8e97-009bed071eed@huitema.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:41:51 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8F7102FA3D8055A260312671" Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.41 X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.197.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: ham X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.04) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0fJVsTFCFA1YlcTpjJcy6PSpSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhV15VGxCfFjm9+ 7DGBNgxnNkTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDpaUm5TrTL2ku6BQx2IM1+5j9 EvBvwu01uVCaGVBWGqvQVyBcpaowQI4lc+HcPy3D2rBNMmEsKEibQwSU1xBeOHButNDpi1WUXRkr He1vFsYm1aGKgRFqmjZjxZofiz4r6ZiYL2N6tFVf2xM74VdTabyme9ldZJ7uNXfg/GfS8fXOC4kn OJkMS8NGDKsP9r3Khy7LI0kfFnXdPP6btp4oBeJDeKRq5oPj2hFJhLx+qI3HlR3ootg7OlA3N5WN re/oppAGOX5cHTu1yz4pRT/9FGrxEaaKeSxe0Wrx6M4G5/WoLsdfEoJI0BNUQ4KpaNyNCwGqOUcw rXf55E8Tb8bmXq4yH8StrboPphDtmrtUkwkDMc9xayd+oZJo2heFY+g6kVWClPVvbW5lVyQanRxw 5rdY2rW50fd1ekaDpmIWc1Vmt3mnxMTQMQWbvBqEXskTQn6USYs98Imn+lZXe3dwYfgVB1xo6dCf BaU/iegBU8bORFBQwderUpdD+ZLqoGnt4nuZrRf7bMi0WRR6pZ+nWTREoEqphQbzgVo/lMYlVA5X 0SU68ek9wyYNR7nSKrZbQsAM8hGlAkv+YXlQiOyIRazNjLvclnGzlTC8ZgkR3laIWqvAxiBHuIuS y5fCAlEkJj4R3I9lYb1yxlrSdZOIv1ACVO3tx78u0bG7If2TCVSl0Ud0GXlDrh8lTmvEP1sTDMXG ixuRFoQagHwGHTFna1ffncYFDRVcOLM39ai6q8s8RdiSCngFEi01L1FDPJVsJOYIJd4MvQ0Nf4Ec bvHO1diDanHV9KirFAIIecsyj+YNTo81GR+jDXFsz/ZQnbbTizvwlZsrbltGiZoUh+c+5pFVgpT1 b21uZVckGp0ccOa2XhkGbmsUNPNkere1WheNsVXmhO8BzADiszcWR9bz/SDtF09JpSbuuCeiIDK0 C/0= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 02:42:13 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8F7102FA3D8055A260312671 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am interested too. On 11/25/2020 12:24 PM, Joey S wrote: > +1 interested in attending > -- > Joey Salazar > Digital Sr. Programme Officer > ARTICLE 19 > 6E9C 95E5 5BED 9413 5D08 55D5 0A40 4136 0DF0 1A91 > On 18-Nov-20 3:43 PM, Philipp Pfeiffenberger wrote: >> I am also interested in attending, representing YouTube Trust & Safety. >> >> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:41 PM David Turner > > wrote: >> >> + Philipp >> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke > > wrote: >> >> I'm also interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid >> traffic/ad fraud team together with David Turner). >> >> Thanks. >> >> Per >> >> >> Per Bjorke | Sr Product Manager, Ad Traffic Quality >> |bjorke@google.com  |650-245-3105 >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:10 AM David Turner >> > wrote: >> >> +Per Bjorke >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner >> > wrote: >> >> I'm also interested in attending and presenting on >> behalf of the Google Ad Traffic Quality team. >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen >> > > wrote: >> >> I'd very much be interested in attending. >> >> -Paul >> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey >> > > wrote: >> >> Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest >> in participating as well. >> >> -Brad >> >> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea >> Komlo > > wrote: >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> I recommend that someone from Tor be >> invited to give a talk on how the privacy >> properties provided by tools like Tor >> differ from some of the other mechanisms >> presented (like VPNs or willful IP >> blindness). >> >> Chelsea >> >> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad >> Lassey >> > > wrote: >> >> I'd very much be interested in >> attending as well as presenting on >> Willful IP Blindness. >> >> -Brad >> >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM >> Fernando Gont > > wrote: >> >> Hi, Chris, >> >> Some of us have done some work in >> this area. For example: >> >> * RFC7707 >> * RFC7721 >> * RFC7217 >> * RFC8064 >> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >> >> That said, my comments and >> questions are: >> >> * I'd be interested in attending >> >> * Is this a meeting to simply to >> discuss the topic, or do you have >> any >> proposed work in mind? (if so, >> what, specifically? Or is possible >> future work up for discussion?) >> >> * I don't know if the work >> referenced above is in-topic and >> of interest. >> If it is, and you think it would >> make sense to do a presentation to >> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Regards, >> Fernando >> >> >> >> >> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher >> Wood wrote: >> > The PEARG chairs would like to >> propose a virtual interim on the >> topic of IP address privacy. >> > >> > IP address uses: >> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS >> protection >> > - Geo IP >> > - Ad targeting >> > - ... others? >> > >> > Privacy attacks: >> > - IP re-identification >> > - IP-based fingerprinting >> > >> > IP hiding or blindness: >> > - VPNs (and related >> technologies like Firefox Private >> Network) >> > - Willful IP Blindness >> (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness >> ) >> > >> > The format of this would be >> presentation-based, though we >> might turn it into a workshop of >> sorts if folks think that would >> be more useful. >> > >> > We are aiming for some time in >> early December or January. We'd >> like to hear from folks here if >> they'd be interested in attending >> such an interim, and if so, >> whether they'd like to contribute >> to the agenda. Of course, >> suggestions to alter the agenda >> are also welcome! >> > >> > Best, >> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >> > >> >> >> -- >> Fernando Gont >> SI6 Networks >> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >> >> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 >> 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> >> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com >> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> >> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> >> >> -- >> Pearg mailing list >> Pearg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >> >> >> > > --------------8F7102FA3D8055A260312671 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I am interested too.

On 11/25/2020 12:24 PM, Joey S wrote:
+1 interested in attending
--
Joey Salazar
Digital Sr. Programme Officer
ARTICLE 19
6E9C 95E5 5BED 9413 5D08 55D5 0A40 4136 0DF0 1A91
On 18-Nov-20 3:43 PM, Philipp Pfeiffenberger wrote:
I am also interested in attending, representing YouTube Trust & Safety.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:41 PM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
+ Philipp

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke <bjorke@google.com> wrote:
I'm also interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid traffic/ad fraud team together with David Turner).

Thanks.

Per


Per Bjorke | Sr Product Manager, Ad Traffic Quality | bjorke@google.com | 650-245-3105


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:10 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the Google Ad Traffic Quality team.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen <pauljensen=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attending.

-Paul

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as well.

-Brad

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo <chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Chris,

I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). 

Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness.

-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis

That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?  Or is possible
future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of interest.
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg


--
Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg



--------------8F7102FA3D8055A260312671-- From nobody Wed Nov 25 23:14:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32D733A0B16 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:14:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iVRcBPnAFlzb for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBAFD3A0B15 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id f15so521521qto.13 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:14:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0vp34HgQnF33sG7JlGzASSQovoI++oxSWxxRLGCa1ng=; b=ioRsutPx82RuJP2+2ykE3VW0Y+6vOJ7M21GbcobswiljU8a1FTzBFw7Cdic/ZksgeM z3H4UU3buosg6t7lLETzBR6mLYJBL6jCi12aC1W3nDiWj0btqGyEoz+XFosxCfoPr4wk YVE0pdWTRG6Af3WzIAGMFrvcKW4pz00cyAp3Gxl/W6nflp4Ua7N19hnJbJO21DFF5GbO tj4gbNBotHCJa7F/9JcZ7ZOFR6I+PUVmqCj1geYYGlR5odRYaP44uh4wndUFCyi5paGa w/nde7jfANs8TbM2t9QD1448OctPfWREbRZWtT0FiEDKHAcWoTbEVQ0vX0jgUPbBujS+ K6TA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0vp34HgQnF33sG7JlGzASSQovoI++oxSWxxRLGCa1ng=; b=n+e+WDcCtoL9rVz4EuaXDi9LN4NAyCsecMAbYu3+GL7k0DkhJW3663hu8GUiY5OuRi TQtDAJUTnZTVh8YAXy7PawoHAH+c2X2i7COdhnlhjzJT3KuGEaEJ+RqViJ8sWo6IJ1JO J+2PMGZORg4fPSJVQQNTxq3ScyeLkjJrYjwfRRcd1LL9DYmioDD6PtzJQRZYUtLDY9tE GjjfiF/dX356AJcmP4lQtdkfrAGtkxfgoIO5+JLqU2lnhcUdvJk2Gs1qXWeoiscLvdiU RXFSv8dC6zXA8Do7ok/2nCzjWhBrNL+yUnNH8hKC+eI5eKpcy7FohoVuU5C4vx72i81r DacQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530LkovW4zeCoI02OHNpFPBAQ+8uDEPylaCnnPYi3hGi3jb/ImZL ZFmdYwtaMGtWYjrGgFDpSBDGGITORFt0R2AFhOk61en1XhJCIg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwLZxHfJl0cZKwc45p8f1WFzWH7QhbXVEGGgZS6xbf29aj+ZWS8FPxFxsT3E3/otyPpwWuycCIgYeFLoPrvagk= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:641:: with SMTP id e1mr1779396qth.226.1606374856908; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:14:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30bff6c4-fca5-480e-93fb-c6d0b5510148@www.fastmail.com> <123a5699-44e1-b1fd-69e6-cee3c6d5af07@si6networks.com> <9a0e6845-e859-1678-8e97-009bed071eed@huitema.net> In-Reply-To: <9a0e6845-e859-1678-8e97-009bed071eed@huitema.net> From: Corinne Cath Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 10:13:40 +0300 Message-ID: To: Christian Huitema Cc: Joey S , pearg@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b8e3ff05b4fd4a6b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Pearg] Proposed virtual interim on IP address privacy X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 07:14:20 -0000 --000000000000b8e3ff05b4fd4a6b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Interested too! corinne On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 5:42 AM Christian Huitema wrote: > I am interested too. > On 11/25/2020 12:24 PM, Joey S wrote: > > +1 interested in attending > > -- > Joey Salazar > Digital Sr. Programme Officer > ARTICLE 19 > 6E9C 95E5 5BED 9413 5D08 55D5 0A40 4136 0DF0 1A91 > > On 18-Nov-20 3:43 PM, Philipp Pfeiffenberger wrote: > > I am also interested in attending, representing YouTube Trust & Safety. > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:41 PM David Turner wrote: > >> + Philipp >> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke wrote: >> >>> I'm also interesting in attending (I'm on Google's invalid traffic/ad >>> fraud team together with David Turner). >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Per >>> >>> >>> Per Bjorke | Sr Product Manager, Ad Traffic Quality | bjorke@google.com >>> | 650-245-3105 >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:10 AM David Turner >>> wrote: >>> >>>> +Per Bjorke >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm also interested in attending and presenting on behalf of the >>>>> Google Ad Traffic Quality team. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen >>>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'd very much be interested in attending. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Paul >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey >>>>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed interest in participating as >>>>>>> well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Brad >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo < >>>>>>> chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how >>>>>>>> the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the >>>>>>>> other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chelsea >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey >>>>>>> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on >>>>>>>>> Willful IP Blindness. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Brad >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, Chris, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Some of us have done some work in this area. For example: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * RFC7707 >>>>>>>>>> * RFC7721 >>>>>>>>>> * RFC7217 >>>>>>>>>> * RFC8064 >>>>>>>>>> * draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That said, my comments and questions are: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * I'd be interested in attending >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you >>>>>>>>>> have any >>>>>>>>>> proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically? Or is >>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>> future work up for discussion?) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * I don't know if the work referenced above is in-topic and of >>>>>>>>>> interest. >>>>>>>>>> If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> provide an overview, I'd be happy to. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Fernando >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the >>>>>>>>>> topic of IP address privacy. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > IP address uses: >>>>>>>>>> > - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection >>>>>>>>>> > - Geo IP >>>>>>>>>> > - Ad targeting >>>>>>>>>> > - ... others? >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Privacy attacks: >>>>>>>>>> > - IP re-identification >>>>>>>>>> > - IP-based fingerprinting >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > IP hiding or blindness: >>>>>>>>>> > - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network) >>>>>>>>>> > - Willful IP Blindness ( >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness) >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might >>>>>>>>>> turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd >>>>>>>>>> like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an >>>>>>>>>> interim, and if so, whether they'd like to contribute to the agenda. Of >>>>>>>>>> course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome! >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Best, >>>>>>>>>> > Chris, on behalf of the chairs >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Fernando Gont >>>>>>>>>> SI6 Networks >>>>>>>>>> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >>>>>>>>>> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Pearg mailing list >>>>>> Pearg@irtf.org >>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg >>>>>> >>>>> > > > -- > Pearg mailing list > Pearg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg > -- Corinne Cath - Speth Ph.D. Candidate, Oxford Internet Institute & Alan Turing Institute Web: www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath Email: ccath@turing.ac.uk & corinnecath@gmail.com Twitter: @C_CS --000000000000b8e3ff05b4fd4a6b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interested too! corinne=C2=A0

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 5:42= AM Christian Huitema <huitema@hu= itema.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

I am interested too.

On 11/25/2020 12:24 PM, Joey S wrote:
=20 +1 interested in attending
--
Joey Salazar
Digital Sr. Programme Officer
ARTICLE 19
6E9C 95E5 5BED 9413 5D08 55D5 0A40 4136 0DF0 1A91
On 18-Nov-20 3:43 PM, Philipp Pfeiffenberger wrote:
=20
I am also interested in attending, representing YouTube Trust & Safety.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:4= 1 PM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
+ Philipp

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:19 AM Per Bjorke <bjorke@google.com> wrote:
I'm also interesting in attending (I&#= 39;m on Google's invalid traffic/ad fraud team together with David Turner).

Thanks.

Per


Per Bjorke |=C2=A0Sr Product Manager, Ad Traffic Quality |<= span style=3D"color:rgb(85,85,85);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:small;li= ne-height:19.4886px;border-width:2px 0px 0px;border-style:solid;border-colo= r:rgb(0,153,57);padding-top:2px;margin-top:2px">=C2=A0bjork= e@google.com=C2=A0|=C2=A0650-24= 5-3105


On Tue, Nov 17, 202= 0 at 11:10 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:01 AM David Turner <dbturner@google.com> wrote:
I'm also interested in attendi= ng and presenting on behalf of the Google Ad Traffic Quality team.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:59 AM Paul Jensen <pauljensen=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I'd very much be interes= ted in attending.

-Paul

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:18 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org= > wrote:
Dimitris from Whiteops has expressed=C2=A0interest in participating as well.

-Brad

O= n Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:06 AM Chelsea Komlo <chelsea.komlo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Chris,

I recommend that someone from Tor be invited to give a talk on how the privacy properties provided by tools like Tor differ from some of the other mechanisms presented (like VPNs or willful IP blindness).=C2=A0

Chelsea

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:40 AM Brad Lassey <lassey=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf= .org> wrote:
I'd very much be interested in attending as well as presenting on Willful IP Blindness.

-Brad

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:08 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com&g= t; wrote:
Hi, Chris,

Some of us have done some work in this area. For example:

* RFC7707
* RFC7721
* RFC7217
* RFC8064
* draft-ietf-6man-rfc4941bis
That said, my comments and questions are:

* I'd be interested in attending

* Is this a meeting to simply to discuss the topic, or do you have any
proposed work in mind? (if so, what, specifically?=C2=A0 Or is possible
future work up for discussion?)

* I don't know if the wor= k referenced above is in-topic and of interest.
If it is, and you think it would make sense to do a presentation to
provide an overview, I'd be happy to.

Thanks!

Regards,
Fernando




On 13/11/20 14:23, Christopher Wood wrote:
> The PEARG chairs would like to propose a virtual interim on the topic of IP address privacy.
>
> IP address uses:
> - Spam, abuse, fraud, DoS protection
> - Geo IP
> - Ad targeting
> - ... others?
>
> Privacy attacks:
> - IP re-identification
> - IP-based fingerprinting
>
> IP hiding or blindness:
> - VPNs (and related technologies like Firefox Private Network)
> - Willful IP Blindness (https://github.com/bslassey/ip-blindness)
>
> The format of this would be presentation-based, though we might turn it into a workshop of sorts if folks think that would be more useful.
>
> We are aiming for some time in early December or January. We'd like to hear from folks here if they'd be interested in attending such an interim, and if so, whether they'd like t= o contribute to the agenda. Of course, suggestions to alter the agenda are also welcome!
>
> Best,
> Chris, on behalf of the chairs
>


--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.= com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




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https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irt= f.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg


--
Chelsea H. Komlo | chelseakomlo.com
--
Pearg mailing list
Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/pearg
--
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Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/pearg
--
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Pearg@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/= listinfo/pearg



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https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg


--
Corinne Cath - Speth
Ph.D. Candidate, Oxford Interne= t Institute & Alan Turing Institute

Web: www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath
Email: ccath@turing.ac.uk & = corinnecath@gmai= l.com
Twitter: @C_CS
=
--000000000000b8e3ff05b4fd4a6b--