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Subject: [Pidloc] Id-Loc privacy Lightning talk at #102
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From nobody Mon Jul 30 07:16:21 2018
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List address: PIdLoc@ietf.org
Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pidloc/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc

Purpose:
 In IdLoc protocols like LISP, ILA, etc.  separation between (fixed)
Identifier and (dynamic) Location is proposed to find optimum path for data
packets to/from moving devices

The threats against privacy in IdLoc protocols include

location privacy where if a third party can at any time determine the IP
location of some identifier, then the device can at one point be IP
geolocated and

movement privacy where if a third party can determine that an identifier
has changed locator(s) at time T, then even without knowing the
particular locators
before and after, it can correlate this movement event with other
information to create a binding between the identifier and a person.

Privacy and security work is needed both in control and data plane

There is an existing draft https://www.ietf.org/id/
draft-nordmark-id-loc-privacy-00.txt that is expected to serve as a
starting point.

The work is expected to clear the way for a wider acceptance/deployment
of IdLoc protocol. This may open new application areas such as in future
mobile networks.

In future mobile networks more efficient differentiation of packet
handling according to specific service demands (QoS) are expected. Traditional
tunneling and encapsulation between IP addresses (= Id and/or Loc) have
disadvantages


From nobody Mon Jul 30 09:25:04 2018
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From: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
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To: "<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
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You should have probably included in the slide-set reference:



Dino

> On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:58 AM, <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> =
<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:
>=20
> Dear all
> In case somebody has missed the short presentation during Aarons =
Sunday night session =E2=80=A6 you=E2=80=99ll find slides =
here:https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-hotrfc-=
privacy-issues-with-tunneling-alternatives-in-next-generation-systems-00
> Since there was no discussion foreseen then we would appreciate your =
comments here
> Thanks!
> Best Regards
> Dirk=20
> =20
> =20
> --=20
> Pidloc mailing list
> Pidloc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
line-break: after-white-space;">You should have probably included in the =
slide-set reference:<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><img apple-inline=3D"yes" =
id=3D"D0E37370-89EF-4BAA-8DF1-661C59B921CB" width=3D"395" height=3D"45" =
src=3D"cid:6E39AEAF-AF8C-4792-B7B4-ABA3CFE86A33" class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dino<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On Jul 30, 2018, at =
12:58 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" =
class=3D"">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" =
class=3D"">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Dear all<br class=3D"">In case somebody has missed the short =
presentation during Aarons Sunday night session =E2=80=A6&nbsp;you=E2=80=99=
ll find slides&nbsp;here:<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-hotr=
fc-privacy-issues-with-tunneling-alternatives-in-" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-h=
otrfc-privacy-issues-with-tunneling-alternatives-in-</a>next-generation-sy=
stems-00<br class=3D"">Since there was no discussion foreseen then we =
would appreciate your comments here<br class=3D"">Thanks!<br =
class=3D"">Best Regards<br class=3D"">Dirk&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D"">--&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Pidloc mailing =
list<br class=3D"">Pidloc@ietf.org<br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
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CC: <pidloc@ietf.org>, <sarikaya@ieee.org>
Thread-Topic: [Pidloc] Id-Loc privacy Lightning talk at #102
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:48:01 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pidloc/rj-VQ1Uq-Jkl6b9f0tajSH1vxIY>
Subject: Re: [Pidloc] Id-Loc privacy Lightning talk at #102
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Let me know if you want me to forward any slide-sets from previous LISP =
WG presentations.

Dino

> On Jul 31, 2018, at 7:48 AM, <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> =
<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Dino,
> Thanks a lot! Of course you are right =E2=80=93 that RFC also =
addresses a mechanism laying ground for privacy and security in one =
id-loc approach but also lists requirements which are more general and =
could serve for further discussion here. Especially I like  that one:
> Authentication and privacy are provided with a single mechanism =
thereby providing less per-packet overhead and therefore more resource =
efficiency.
> Thanks again for pointing to it!
> Best Regards
> Dirk=20
> =20
> From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Montag, 30. Juli 2018 18:25
> To: von Hugo, Dirk <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
> Cc: pidloc@ietf.org; sarikaya@ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [Pidloc] Id-Loc privacy Lightning talk at #102
> =20
> You should have probably included in the slide-set reference:
> =20
> <image003.png>
> =20
> Dino
>=20
>=20
> On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:58 AM, <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> =
<Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:
>=20
> Dear all
> In case somebody has missed the short presentation during Aarons =
Sunday night session =E2=80=A6 you=E2=80=99ll find slides =
here:https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-hotrfc-=
privacy-issues-with-tunneling-alternatives-in-next-generation-systems-00
> Since there was no discussion foreseen then we would appreciate your =
comments here
> Thanks!
> Best Regards
> Dirk=20
> =20
> =20
> --=20
> Pidloc mailing list
> Pidloc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc


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From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:18:05 -0500
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To: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
Cc: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de, pidloc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Pidloc] Id-Loc privacy Lightning talk at #102
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Hi Dino,

Your RFC addresses secure communication between ITRs and ETRs using
Diffie-Helman key exchange, it is to be used when plaintext packets are
sent by hosts.
Interested parties can go more in detail about it.

BTW we had already referenced your draft in our previous atic activity,
draft-xyzy-atick-gaps-00.txt in Section 3.3:


I hope that you are not implying that this is somehow what we want to do in
this group if it were you would certainly  recommend RFC 8061 as the
solution.

Regards,
Behcet

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> wrote=
:

> Let me know if you want me to forward any slide-sets from previous LISP W=
G
> presentations.
>
> Dino
>
> > On Jul 31, 2018, at 7:48 AM, <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> <
> Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dino,
> > Thanks a lot! Of course you are right =E2=80=93 that RFC also addresses=
 a
> mechanism laying ground for privacy and security in one id-loc approach b=
ut
> also lists requirements which are more general and could serve for furthe=
r
> discussion here. Especially I like  that one:
> > Authentication and privacy are provided with a single mechanism thereby
> providing less per-packet overhead and therefore more resource efficiency=
.
> > Thanks again for pointing to it!
> > Best Regards
> > Dirk
> >
> > From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Montag, 30. Juli 2018 18:25
> > To: von Hugo, Dirk <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
> > Cc: pidloc@ietf.org; sarikaya@ieee.org
> > Subject: Re: [Pidloc] Id-Loc privacy Lightning talk at #102
> >
> > You should have probably included in the slide-set reference:
> >
> > <image003.png>
> >
> > Dino
> >
> >
> > On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:58 AM, <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> <
> Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all
> > In case somebody has missed the short presentation during Aarons Sunday
> night session =E2=80=A6 you=E2=80=99ll find slides here:https://datatrack=
er.ietf.
> org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-hotrfc-privacy-issues-with-tunneling=
-
> alternatives-in-next-generation-systems-00
> > Since there was no discussion foreseen then we would appreciate your
> comments here
> > Thanks!
> > Best Regards
> > Dirk
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pidloc mailing list
> > Pidloc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc
>
>

--00000000000005066d0572507025
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dino,<div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Your RFC=
 addresses secure communication between ITRs and ETRs using Diffie-Helman k=
ey exchange, it is to be used <span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.=
333333015441895px">when plaintext packets are sent by hosts.</span></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"=
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Interested parties can go more in detail about =
it.</span></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></span></font></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2"><span style=
=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">BTW we had already referenced your draft in=
 our previous atic activity,=C2=A0</span></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra">draft-xyzy-atick-gaps-00.txt in Section 3.3:<font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></span></font></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2">I hope that =
you are not implying that this is somehow what we want to do in this group =
if it were you would certainly =C2=A0recommend RFC 8061 as the solution.</f=
ont></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2"><br=
></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2"=
>Regards,</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2">Behcet</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><font color=3D"#0000=
00" size=3D"2"><br></font><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 a=
t 9:49 AM, Dino Farinacci <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:farinacci=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">farinacci@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">Let me know if you want me to forward any slide-sets from =
previous LISP WG presentations.<br>
<br>
Dino<br>
<span class=3D"gmail-"><br>
&gt; On Jul 31, 2018, at 7:48 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telek=
om.de">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo=
@telekom.de">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi Dino,<br>
&gt; Thanks a lot! Of course you are right =E2=80=93 that RFC also addresse=
s a mechanism laying ground for privacy and security in one id-loc approach=
 but also lists requirements which are more general and could serve for fur=
ther discussion here. Especially I like=C2=A0 that one:<br>
&gt; Authentication and privacy are provided with a single mechanism thereb=
y providing less per-packet overhead and therefore more resource efficiency=
.<br>
&gt; Thanks again for pointing to it!<br>
&gt; Best Regards<br>
&gt; Dirk <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:farinacci@gmail.com">fa=
rinacci@gmail.com</a>] <br>
&gt; Sent: Montag, 30. Juli 2018 18:25<br>
&gt; To: von Hugo, Dirk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de">Dir=
k.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:pidloc@ietf.org">pidloc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D=
"mailto:sarikaya@ieee.org">sarikaya@ieee.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Pidloc] Id-Loc privacy Lightning talk at #102<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; You should have probably included in the slide-set reference:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
</span>&gt; &lt;image003.png&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><div class=3D"gmail-h5">&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; Dino<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Jul 30, 2018, at 12:58 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@tele=
kom.de">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hug=
o@telekom.de">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Dear all<br>
&gt; In case somebody has missed the short presentation during Aarons Sunda=
y night session =E2=80=A6 you=E2=80=99ll find slides here:<a href=3D"https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-hotrfc-privacy-issu=
es-with-tunneling-alternatives-in-next-generation-systems-00" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.<wbr>org/meeting/102/mater=
ials/<wbr>slides-102-hotrfc-privacy-<wbr>issues-with-tunneling-<wbr>alterna=
tives-in-next-<wbr>generation-systems-00</a><br>
&gt; Since there was no discussion foreseen then we would appreciate your c=
omments here<br>
&gt; Thanks!<br>
&gt; Best Regards<br>
&gt; Dirk <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; -- <br>
&gt; Pidloc mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Pidloc@ietf.org">Pidloc@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/pidloc</=
a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--00000000000005066d0572507025--

