From majordomo@raleigh.ibm.com Wed Jun 6 22:06:54 2001 Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA12820 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.48]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id VAA06904; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:59:43 -0400 Received: from rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.4]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id WAA52848; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:01:40 -0400 Received: by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA79808; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:23:07 -0400 Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA63632; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:22:55 -0400 Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.0.4]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA44510 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:22:55 -0400 Received: from longmail2.lboard.com ([63.109.116.89]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id VAA07380 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:20:49 -0400 Received: by longmail2.lboard.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:22:27 -0400 Message-Id: From: Ed Ellesson To: "'policy@raleigh.ibm.com'" Cc: "'Wijnen, Bert (Bert)'" , "'Joel M. Halpern'" Subject: Policy WG Notice: Policy Terminology Last Call is now complete Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:22:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: policy-owner@raleigh.ibm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ed Ellesson Hi, Policy Framework WG: We apologize to those of you who receive more than one copy of this notice. The extended working group last call is now completed, for the draft titled "Terminology" (draft-ietf-policy-terminology-03.txt), which is being re-titled as "Terminology for Policy-Based Management". This extended last call provided an opportunity for the following working groups to comment on the draft, and discuss proposed changes on the Policy Framework WG mailing list. Working groups participating in the extended working group last call for this draft: Policy DiffServ RAP IPSP SNMPCONF AAA AAAArch (IRTF) RSVP MPLS Comments resulting from this extended multiple working group last call were discussed and accepted on our policy framework working group mailing list. The document will be revised in accordance with the results of that discussion. Our working group will then submit it to the IESG to request their review and approval for publication as an Informational RFC. Thanks to all of you who participated in this successful extended working group last call, and a special thanks to Andrea Westerinen, who edited the draft, engaged in the discussion of the comments, and who will update it per the discussion results. Ed Ellesson, with Joel Halpern, Co-chairs, Policy Framework WG From majordomo@raleigh.ibm.com Fri Jun 8 09:30:37 2001 Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA12227 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.24]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id JAA32064; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:23:10 -0400 Received: from rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.4]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id JAA03494; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:25:06 -0400 Received: by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA85050; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:44:53 -0400 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA69420; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:44:49 -0400 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA40256 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:44:49 -0400 Received: from d04mc200.raleigh.ibm.com (d04mc200.raleigh.ibm.com [9.67.228.62]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id f58Cimo75914; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:44:48 -0400 Importance: Normal Subject: QDDIM-04 published To: policy@raleigh.ibm.com Cc: wweiss@ellacoya.com, david.durham@intel.com, joel@longsys.com, andreaw@cisco.com, john.strassner@intelliden.com, eellesson@lboard.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.3 (Intl) 21 March 2000 Message-Id: From: "Robert Moore" Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:54:41 -0400 X-Mimetrack: Serialize by Router on D04MC200/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 06/08/2001 08:44:48 AM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: policy-owner@raleigh.ibm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Robert Moore" I have just submitted an undated draft draft-ietf-policy-qos-device-info-model-04.txt to the Internet-Drafts repository. I suppose it will show up there some time over the weekend. In addition to some editorial and minor technical tweaking, this draft contains the following larger updates: - A full version of the packet preamble solution for making previous traffic conditioning results known further down the datapath. - A rework to the FilterEntryBase subclasses for filtering on the IP and 802 headers. We're still planning to move these classes to their permanent home, PCIMe, in July, but QDDIM-04 is a convenient vehicle for getting them out before the WG now. - Four extensive examples illustrating how the queuing and scheduling classes can be used to represent different queuing configurations. There is still ongoing discussion, and disagreement, among the QDDIM authors concerning these and other elements of QDDIM-04 - specifically, there is disagreement about the packet preamble part of the model. So feedback from the larger WG will be especially valuable on this point. Really, though, feedback from the WG on *any* part of the draft will be valuable, especially if it comes in time for us to factor it into the QDDIM-05 draft, which we'll be publishing before the July 20 Internet-Draft cutoff date. Thanks. Regards, Bob Bob Moore Advanced Design and Technology Application Integration Middleware Division IBM Software Group +1-919-254-4436 remoore@us.ibm.com From majordomo@raleigh.ibm.com Tue Jun 12 16:38:03 2001 Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24280 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.47]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id QAA09228; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:29:45 -0400 Received: from rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.4]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id QAA38944; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:32:04 -0400 Received: by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA48248; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:50:10 -0400 Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA46960; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:50:07 -0400 Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.0.3]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26772 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:50:06 -0400 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com (thumper.research.telcordia.com [128.96.41.1]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id PAA08160 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:50:04 -0400 Received: from monday.research.telcordia.com (monday [192.4.16.50]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f5CJnUu00967; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from monday (monday.research.telcordia.com [192.4.16.50]) by monday.research.telcordia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA23999; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121949.PAA23999@monday.research.telcordia.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Ritu Chadha Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS To: franr@pfn.com, Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com, mpls@UU.NET, te-wg@ops.ietf.org, sganguly@carrier9.com Cc: chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com, policy@raleigh.ibm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Md5: q3vOqZDJV2IY+PsD4bKRSA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: policy-owner@raleigh.ibm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ritu Chadha Well, I can't comment on that except to say that I'm completely in agreement with you. You should direct your concerns to the ADs. Randy? Ritu >From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >To: "Ritu Chadha" , , , , >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:50:35 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >Importance: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >X-Loop-Detect: 1 > >Ritu, > I see what you are saying and I did read some of them emails but it is >needed. I mean I don't get it (:-)). Why not have a way for TE to take in >some higher layer knowledge to perform smart engineering. There is a lot of >knowledge that can be conveyed to the lower layers from the applications >sitting on top. > > >Sukanta Ganguly >Senior Architect >Carrier9 Networks >Phone (408)-746-0400 x 119 >FAx (408)-730-9441 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ritu Chadha [mailto:chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com] >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:16 AM >To: franr@pfn.com; Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com; mpls@UU.NET; >te-wg@ops.ietf.org; sganguly@carrier9.com >Cc: chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS > > >Been there, tried that :-). > >This was discussed at some length a few months ago on the tewg mailing list. >The ADs did not see policy as an area that fitted within the TE WG charter >at that time. > >Ritu > >>From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >>To: "Fran Reichmeyer" , "'Olivier Dugeon '" >, , >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:51:26 -0700 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>Importance: Normal >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >>X-Loop-Detect: 1 >> >>Maybe the TE group should be the place for this. Clearly policies should be >>an important traffic engineering operation. >> >>SG >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org]On >>Behalf Of Fran Reichmeyer >>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 6:54 AM >>To: 'Olivier Dugeon '; 'mpls@UU.NET '; 'te-wg@ops.ietf.org ' >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >> >> >>After several attempts at introducing this to the wg, it >>was decided that policy is out of scope for the MPLS wg at this >>time. >>-Fran >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Olivier Dugeon >>To: mpls@UU.NET; te-wg@ops.ietf.org >>Sent: 6/12/01 4:28 AM >>Subject: MPLS and COPS >> >>Hi all, >> >>In a context of QoS control in a multi-domain and multi-technology >>network, we would use COPS as the control protocol rather than SNMP. >>COPS need a "Policy rules Information Base" to work. A such PIB is >>available for DiffServ for example. I would to know if somebody work on >>a PIB for MPLS. >> >>- Is there some case study inside the WG or it is out the scope/out of >>date ? >>- Is there a new version of the draft "draft-franr-mpls-cops-00.txt" ? >> >>Thank's a lot >> >>Olivier Dugeon >>-- >> FTR&D/DAC/CPN >> Technopole Anticipa | mailto:Olivier.Dugeon@francetelecom.com >> 2, Avenue Pierre Marzin | Phone: +(33) 2 96 05 28 80 >> F-22307 LANNION | Fax: +(33) 2 96 05 18 52 >> > ============================================================================= Ritu Chadha Director Service Management Research Telcordia Technologies (973) 829-4869 (voice) MCC 1A-216R (973) 829-5889 (fax) 445 South Street chadha@research.telcordia.com Morristown NJ 07960. ============================================================================= From majordomo@raleigh.ibm.com Tue Jun 12 17:03:29 2001 Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24600 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.48]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id QAA12740; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:58:45 -0400 Received: from rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.4]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id QAA30096; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:58:38 -0400 Received: by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA49518; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:25:14 -0400 Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA46960; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:50:07 -0400 Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.0.3]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26772 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:50:06 -0400 Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com (thumper.research.telcordia.com [128.96.41.1]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id PAA08160 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:50:04 -0400 Received: from monday.research.telcordia.com (monday [192.4.16.50]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f5CJnUu00967; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from monday (monday.research.telcordia.com [192.4.16.50]) by monday.research.telcordia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA23999; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200106121949.PAA23999@monday.research.telcordia.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Ritu Chadha Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS To: franr@pfn.com, Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com, mpls@UU.NET, te-wg@ops.ietf.org, sganguly@carrier9.com Cc: chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com, policy@raleigh.ibm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Md5: q3vOqZDJV2IY+PsD4bKRSA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: policy-owner@raleigh.ibm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ritu Chadha Well, I can't comment on that except to say that I'm completely in agreement with you. You should direct your concerns to the ADs. Randy? Ritu >From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >To: "Ritu Chadha" , , , , >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:50:35 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >Importance: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >X-Loop-Detect: 1 > >Ritu, > I see what you are saying and I did read some of them emails but it is >needed. I mean I don't get it (:-)). Why not have a way for TE to take in >some higher layer knowledge to perform smart engineering. There is a lot of >knowledge that can be conveyed to the lower layers from the applications >sitting on top. > > >Sukanta Ganguly >Senior Architect >Carrier9 Networks >Phone (408)-746-0400 x 119 >FAx (408)-730-9441 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ritu Chadha [mailto:chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com] >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:16 AM >To: franr@pfn.com; Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com; mpls@UU.NET; >te-wg@ops.ietf.org; sganguly@carrier9.com >Cc: chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS > > >Been there, tried that :-). > >This was discussed at some length a few months ago on the tewg mailing list. >The ADs did not see policy as an area that fitted within the TE WG charter >at that time. > >Ritu > >>From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >>To: "Fran Reichmeyer" , "'Olivier Dugeon '" >, , >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:51:26 -0700 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>Importance: Normal >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >>X-Loop-Detect: 1 >> >>Maybe the TE group should be the place for this. Clearly policies should be >>an important traffic engineering operation. >> >>SG >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org]On >>Behalf Of Fran Reichmeyer >>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 6:54 AM >>To: 'Olivier Dugeon '; 'mpls@UU.NET '; 'te-wg@ops.ietf.org ' >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >> >> >>After several attempts at introducing this to the wg, it >>was decided that policy is out of scope for the MPLS wg at this >>time. >>-Fran >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Olivier Dugeon >>To: mpls@UU.NET; te-wg@ops.ietf.org >>Sent: 6/12/01 4:28 AM >>Subject: MPLS and COPS >> >>Hi all, >> >>In a context of QoS control in a multi-domain and multi-technology >>network, we would use COPS as the control protocol rather than SNMP. >>COPS need a "Policy rules Information Base" to work. A such PIB is >>available for DiffServ for example. I would to know if somebody work on >>a PIB for MPLS. >> >>- Is there some case study inside the WG or it is out the scope/out of >>date ? >>- Is there a new version of the draft "draft-franr-mpls-cops-00.txt" ? >> >>Thank's a lot >> >>Olivier Dugeon >>-- >> FTR&D/DAC/CPN >> Technopole Anticipa | mailto:Olivier.Dugeon@francetelecom.com >> 2, Avenue Pierre Marzin | Phone: +(33) 2 96 05 28 80 >> F-22307 LANNION | Fax: +(33) 2 96 05 18 52 >> > ============================================================================= Ritu Chadha Director Service Management Research Telcordia Technologies (973) 829-4869 (voice) MCC 1A-216R (973) 829-5889 (fax) 445 South Street chadha@research.telcordia.com Morristown NJ 07960. ============================================================================= From majordomo@raleigh.ibm.com Wed Jun 13 15:58:59 2001 Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00516 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.48]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id PAA20420; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:51:09 -0400 Received: from rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.4]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id PAA37062; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:53:33 -0400 Received: by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA45138; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:12:43 -0400 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA29258; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:12:40 -0400 Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.0.4]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA35318 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:12:40 -0400 Received: from zcars0m9.ca.nortel.com (h157s242a129n47.user.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.157]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id PAA23164 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:10:07 -0400 Received: from zcars04e.ca.nortel.com (zcars04e.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.56]) by zcars0m9.ca.nortel.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5DJBoE27238 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard00m.ca.nortel.com by zcars04e.ca.nortel.com; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:11:43 -0400 Received: from zcard04n.ca.nortel.com ([47.129.242.86]) by zcard00m.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id M6J20HXY; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:11:43 -0400 Received: from americasm01.nt.com (mpana-1.ca.nortel.com [47.128.214.95]) by zcard04n.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id LVBWTAWL; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:11:46 -0400 Message-Id: <3B27BC0E.5952EE30@americasm01.nt.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:16:30 -0400 X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: "Mircea Pana" Organization: Nortel Networks X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Policy Subject: PCIMe: GroupNumber deprecation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orig: Sender: policy-owner@raleigh.ibm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Mircea Pana" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In PCIMe: Is the GroupNumber property in the CompoundedPolicyCondition really necessary? IMO this grouping mechanism unnecessarily overloads the CompoundPolicyCondition semantics. Therefore, I'd like to suggest its deprecation. Without GroupNumber, the CompoundPolicyCondition would represent a single level (instead of the current two level) aggregation of PolicyConditions. Through CompoundPolicyConditions aggregated by other CompoundPolicyConditions one could still build arbitrary complex policy conditions. For example, given a condition like this: FlowDirection=IN AND (Source=10.2.0.0/16 OR Source=10.5.0.0/16) A. With GroupNumber this can be represented as follows: CompoundC_0 (type=CNF) | +-(group#=1)-> SimpleC_1 (FlowDirection=IN) | +-(group#=2)-> SimpleC_2 (Source=10.2.0.0/16) | +-(group#=2)-> SimpleC_3 (Source=10.5.0.0/16) B. Without grouping, the condition may look like: CompoundC_0 (type=AND) | +-> SimpleC_1 (FlowDirection=IN) | +-> CompoundC_01 (type=OR) | +-> SimpleC_2 (Source=10.2.0.0/16) | +-> SimpleC_3 (Source=10.5.0.0/16) Option B seems more intuitive since the aggregation tree and the evaluation tree map better to each other. Regards, Mircea Pana. From majordomo@raleigh.ibm.com Thu Jun 21 13:30:36 2001 Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA08921 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.48]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id NAB32548; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:25:08 -0400 Received: from rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.4]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id NAA42294; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:25:01 -0400 Received: by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA43726; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:40:07 -0400 Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA39874; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:40:04 -0400 Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.0.4]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA28888 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:40:03 -0400 Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com (fmfdns01.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.10]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id MAA32400 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:36:57 -0400 Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs01-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.201]) by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.40 2001/06/06 21:14:49 root Exp $) with SMTP id QAA21356; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:38:07 GMT Received: from fmsmsx17.intel.com ([132.233.48.17]) by 132.233.48.201 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:38:07 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx17.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:38:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8900655DDBB@orsmsx35.jf.intel.com> From: "Hegde, Shriharsha" To: "'Ritu Chadha'" , franr@pfn.com, Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com, mpls@UU.NET, te-wg@ops.ietf.org, sganguly@carrier9.com Cc: policy@raleigh.ibm.com, rap@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:37:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: policy-owner@raleigh.ibm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Hegde, Shriharsha" Just like Diffserv MIB and Diffserv PIB are in Diffserv working group, I support the notion of having a TE PIB in parallel to TE MIB in TE WG. I believe PIB approach is the right direction to take for policy/administrative control over MPLS/TE. harsha PS: I have not followed the TE WG discussion which took place months ago about the ADs deciding that policy should not be in TEWG charter. -----Original Message----- From: Ritu Chadha [mailto:chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:50 PM To: franr@pfn.com; Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com; mpls@UU.NET; te-wg@ops.ietf.org; sganguly@carrier9.com Cc: chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com; policy@raleigh.ibm.com Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS Well, I can't comment on that except to say that I'm completely in agreement with you. You should direct your concerns to the ADs. Randy? Ritu >From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >To: "Ritu Chadha" , , , , >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:50:35 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >Importance: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >X-Loop-Detect: 1 > >Ritu, > I see what you are saying and I did read some of them emails but it is >needed. I mean I don't get it (:-)). Why not have a way for TE to take in >some higher layer knowledge to perform smart engineering. There is a lot of >knowledge that can be conveyed to the lower layers from the applications >sitting on top. > > >Sukanta Ganguly >Senior Architect >Carrier9 Networks >Phone (408)-746-0400 x 119 >FAx (408)-730-9441 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ritu Chadha [mailto:chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com] >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:16 AM >To: franr@pfn.com; Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com; mpls@UU.NET; >te-wg@ops.ietf.org; sganguly@carrier9.com >Cc: chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS > > >Been there, tried that :-). > >This was discussed at some length a few months ago on the tewg mailing list. >The ADs did not see policy as an area that fitted within the TE WG charter >at that time. > >Ritu > >>From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >>To: "Fran Reichmeyer" , "'Olivier Dugeon '" >, , >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:51:26 -0700 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>Importance: Normal >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >>X-Loop-Detect: 1 >> >>Maybe the TE group should be the place for this. Clearly policies should be >>an important traffic engineering operation. >> >>SG >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org]On >>Behalf Of Fran Reichmeyer >>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 6:54 AM >>To: 'Olivier Dugeon '; 'mpls@UU.NET '; 'te-wg@ops.ietf.org ' >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >> >> >>After several attempts at introducing this to the wg, it >>was decided that policy is out of scope for the MPLS wg at this >>time. >>-Fran >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Olivier Dugeon >>To: mpls@UU.NET; te-wg@ops.ietf.org >>Sent: 6/12/01 4:28 AM >>Subject: MPLS and COPS >> >>Hi all, >> >>In a context of QoS control in a multi-domain and multi-technology >>network, we would use COPS as the control protocol rather than SNMP. >>COPS need a "Policy rules Information Base" to work. A such PIB is >>available for DiffServ for example. I would to know if somebody work on >>a PIB for MPLS. >> >>- Is there some case study inside the WG or it is out the scope/out of >>date ? >>- Is there a new version of the draft "draft-franr-mpls-cops-00.txt" ? >> >>Thank's a lot >> >>Olivier Dugeon >>-- >> FTR&D/DAC/CPN >> Technopole Anticipa | mailto:Olivier.Dugeon@francetelecom.com >> 2, Avenue Pierre Marzin | Phone: +(33) 2 96 05 28 80 >> F-22307 LANNION | Fax: +(33) 2 96 05 18 52 >> > ============================================================================ = Ritu Chadha Director Service Management Research Telcordia Technologies (973) 829-4869 (voice) MCC 1A-216R (973) 829-5889 (fax) 445 South Street chadha@research.telcordia.com Morristown NJ 07960. ============================================================================ = From majordomo@raleigh.ibm.com Thu Jun 21 20:49:41 2001 Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA22300 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.48]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id UAA06582; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:44:57 -0400 Received: from rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.4]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id UAA45398; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:43:27 -0400 Received: by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA35884; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:03:58 -0400 Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com by rtpaix11.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA28448; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:03:54 -0400 Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.0.3]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA67568 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:03:54 -0400 Received: from cpimssmtpoa01.msn.com ([207.46.193.226]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/RTP-FW-1.2) with ESMTP id UAA10798 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:03:53 -0400 Received: from cp98suwbm02 ([10.202.3.14]) by cpimssmtpoa01.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:03:22 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by cp98suwbm02 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:03:18 -0700 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Received: from [207.46.193.223] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBCEFBF0C0063400421C4CF2EC1DF0F6116; Tue Jun 12 12:57:18 2001 Message-Id: <46e701c0faae$be4106c0$0e03ca0a@cp98suwbm02> Received: from cmr0.ash.ops.us.uu.net ([198.5.241.38]) by cpimssmtpc04.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:57:06 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail-control.mail.uu.net by cmr0.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mail-control.mail.uu.net [153.39.51.35]) id QQktdf16786; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:56:35 GMT Received: by mail-control.mail.uu.net id QQktdf04293 for mpls-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:55:53 GMT X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Received: from imr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net by mail-control.mail.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: imr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net [153.39.43.46]) id QQktdf04279 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:55:41 GMT Received: from cmr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net by imr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: cmr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net [198.5.241.39]) id QQktdf19144 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:50:38 GMT Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com by cmr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: thumper.research.telcordia.com [128.96.41.1]) id QQktdf01005 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:50:38 GMT Received: from monday.research.telcordia.com (monday [192.4.16.50]) by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f5CJnUu00967; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from monday (monday.research.telcordia.com [192.4.16.50]) by monday.research.telcordia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA23999; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:03:18 -0700 From: "Ritu Chadha" Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS To: Cc: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Md5: q3vOqZDJV2IY+PsD4bKRSA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc X-Originalarrivaltime: 12 Jun 2001 19:57:07.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[DBCAD770:01C0F379] Sender: policy-owner@raleigh.ibm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Ritu Chadha" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I can't comment on that except to say that I'm completely in agreement with you. You should direct your concerns to the ADs. Randy? Ritu >From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >To: "Ritu Chadha" , , , , >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:50:35 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >Importance: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >X-Loop-Detect: 1 > >Ritu, > I see what you are saying and I did read some of them emails but it is >needed. I mean I don't get it (:-)). Why not have a way for TE to take in >some higher layer knowledge to perform smart engineering. There is a lot of >knowledge that can be conveyed to the lower layers from the applications >sitting on top. > > >Sukanta Ganguly >Senior Architect >Carrier9 Networks >Phone (408)-746-0400 x 119 >FAx (408)-730-9441 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ritu Chadha [mailto:chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com] >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:16 AM >To: franr@pfn.com; Olivier.Dugeon@rd.francetelecom.com; mpls@UU.NET; >te-wg@ops.ietf.org; sganguly@carrier9.com >Cc: chadha@mailee.research.telcordia.com >Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS > > >Been there, tried that :-). > >This was discussed at some length a few months ago on the tewg mailing list. >The ADs did not see policy as an area that fitted within the TE WG charter >at that time. > >Ritu > >>From: "Sukanta Ganguly" >>To: "Fran Reichmeyer" , "'Olivier Dugeon '" >, , >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:51:26 -0700 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>Importance: Normal >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 >>X-Loop-Detect: 1 >> >>Maybe the TE group should be the place for this. Clearly policies should be >>an important traffic engineering operation. >> >>SG >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-te-wg@ops.ietf.org]On >>Behalf Of Fran Reichmeyer >>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 6:54 AM >>To: 'Olivier Dugeon '; 'mpls@UU.NET '; 'te-wg@ops.ietf.org ' >>Subject: RE: MPLS and COPS >> >> >>After several attempts at introducing this to the wg, it >>was decided that policy is out of scope for the MPLS wg at this >>time. >>-Fran >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Olivier Dugeon >>To: mpls@UU.NET; te-wg@ops.ietf.org >>Sent: 6/12/01 4:28 AM >>Subject: MPLS and COPS >> >>Hi all, >> >>In a context of QoS control in a multi-domain and multi-technology >>network, we would use COPS as the control protocol rather than SNMP. >>COPS need a "Policy rules Information Base" to work. A such PIB is >>available for DiffServ for example. I would to know if somebody work on >>a PIB for MPLS. >> >>- Is there some case study inside the WG or it is out the scope/out of >>date ? >>- Is there a new version of the draft "draft-franr-mpls-cops-00.txt" ? >> >>Thank's a lot >> >>Olivier Dugeon >>-- >> FTR&D/DAC/CPN >> Technopole Anticipa | mailto:Olivier.Dugeon@francetelecom.com >> 2, Avenue Pierre Marzin | Phone: +(33) 2 96 05 28 80 >> F-22307 LANNION | Fax: +(33) 2 96 05 18 52 >> > ============================================================================= Ritu Chadha Director Service Management Research Telcordia Technologies (973) 829-4869 (voice) MCC 1A-216R (973) 829-5889 (fax) 445 South Street chadha@research.telcordia.com Morristown NJ 07960. =============================================================================