From jari.arkko@piuha.net Mon May 18 05:33:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25A5528C19A for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 05:33:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.528 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.528 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.071, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07fySNowPmra for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 05:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF063A7026 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 05:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EFC19878B for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 15:35:26 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46F2198660 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 15:35:26 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4A11560C.9000806@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:35:24 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090318) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pppext@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Subject: [Pppext] Charter update X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:33:53 -0000 Hello folks, I am going through my working groups and checking if their charters are up to date. The current charter of PPPEXT emphasizes the work on advancing documents to Full Standard, whereas in reality we right now do very little of that. After discussion with James, we would like to make a small update to the charter as follows. Thoughts - comments - objections, anyone? ------ Point-to-Point Protocol Extensions (pppext) Last Modified: 2009-05-18 Additional information is available at tools.ietf.org/wg/pppext Chair(s): James Carlson Internet Area Director(s): Ralph Droms Jari Arkko Internet Area Advisor: Jari Arkko Mailing Lists: General Discussion: pppext@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext In Body: subscribe Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pppext/index.html Description of Working Group: The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP, RFC 1661) is a mature protocol with a large number of subprotocols, encapsulations and other extensions. The PPPEXT working exists to provide a forum for asking clarifications about the existing specifications and to defend against enhancements of questionable value. The group is not expected to create new specifications, and if a need for such work comes up, a recharter is required. The group may, however, advance existing specifications to the next level in the standards track, if a need for that comes up. Goals and Milestones: From william.allen.simpson@gmail.com Tue May 19 14:51:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1105D3A6BD0 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 14:51:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uhqp4wRRNU7n for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 14:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AAE03A6BCD for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 14:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so78382ywj.49 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ag2Gd4f6qkDkYm9QUc1fJzB9DW2KEEUYjUfIN49Gk88=; b=VYF2n1WnlmCCmsN2ACNYkn2ooTPc+dEo7hlTsbrbTaJYSTTQ5Fz1xvC31cfA++rMix MGSv2aOqJWerFNCOcNSvcy1nCFS54smo/F+D4NGB54dV+u5Yz/UmSjgxJBdiQUbZGFJ4 /8dCLYFEdDDnvD50P5S/bTRYHjwQKjB84+tlc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XXN+6XbyzhtM9tO3t7TRoAmtsMp4aqMP11vd6Tz6nvA9olmn0w1EdkLETJirSqN3+v KX58kvbJEtAZRxNL6E9Gfg5rcEE0LrO9Um0y8qllVhDr5Ct/j1FvhLrv09hebVMt1eje 0b3/J8D8i99boKa2VUA/lXUnmHNp1/OCzQvXo= Received: by 10.100.105.9 with SMTP id d9mr957030anc.142.1242770004798; Tue, 19 May 2009 14:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wastrel.local (c-68-42-73-61.hsd1.mi.comcast.net [68.42.73.61]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 25sm808124aga.57.2009.05.19.14.53.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 19 May 2009 14:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A132A52.1040008@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:53:22 -0400 From: William Allen Simpson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pppext@ietf.org References: <4A11560C.9000806@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <4A11560C.9000806@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Pppext] Charter update X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:51:51 -0000 Jari Arkko wrote: > The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP, RFC 1661) is a mature protocol with a > large number of subprotocols, encapsulations and other extensions. The > PPPEXT working exists to provide a forum for asking clarifications > about the existing specifications and to defend against enhancements > of questionable value. The group is not expected to create new > specifications, and if a need for such work comes up, a recharter is > required. The group may, however, advance existing specifications > to the next level in the standards track, if a need for that comes up. > Seems OK, other than "not expected to create new specifications". Recent security research has rather obsoleted the ancient authentication and encryption specifications. Every once in awhile, I've been thinking about writing some replacement transforms.... How about changing to: "... new specifications, other than replacing or updating authentication, confidentiality, and improved key management specifications. If a need for other additional work arises, ...." Another thing that group probably ought to discuss is formally retiring some of the ancient Proposed work as Historic. Admittedly, we gave up on advancing things like IPCP, as IPv4 was supposedly ready to be replaced (for the past 15 years). Ha! From carlsonj@carlson.workingcode.com Thu May 21 05:42:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E283A6CB8 for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 05:42:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w+ziIUTJA3oM for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 05:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carlson.workingcode.com (carlsonj-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1d9::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771E63A68E0 for ; Thu, 21 May 2009 05:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carlson.workingcode.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carlson.workingcode.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n4LCi922005346; Thu, 21 May 2009 08:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by carlson.workingcode.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n4LCi8g6005343; Thu, 21 May 2009 08:44:08 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18965.19608.816239.333462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:44:08 -0400 To: William Allen Simpson In-Reply-To: William Allen Simpson's message of 19 May 2009 17:53:22 References: <4A11560C.9000806@piuha.net> <4A132A52.1040008@gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 22.1.1 From: James Carlson X-DCC-URT-Metrics: carlson; whitelist Cc: pppext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Pppext] Charter update X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:51:16 -0000 [Sorry if this message results in duplicates; mailman seems to dislike the Sun version of me for some reason.] William Allen Simpson writes: > Seems OK, other than "not expected to create new specifications". I think Jari Arkko wants the charter to match up better with reality. > How about changing to: "... new specifications, other than replacing or > updating authentication, confidentiality, and improved key management > specifications. If a need for other additional work arises, ...." Won't most of that work go on in the EAP wg? Would we really want to extend CHAP? > Another thing that group probably ought to discuss is formally retiring > some of the ancient Proposed work as Historic. True. > Admittedly, we gave up on advancing things like IPCP, as IPv4 was supposedly > ready to be replaced (for the past 15 years). Ha! :-/ If someone wanted to put the work into advancing 1332 or one of the other old documents, I'd certainly be supportive. -- James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W From jari.arkko@piuha.net Fri May 29 00:34:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: pppext@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154D03A6AE8 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 00:34:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.109, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4tyxKXczOkjT for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 00:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2228B3A68C3 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 00:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4504A19871D; Fri, 29 May 2009 10:36:22 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045CC198714; Fri, 29 May 2009 10:36:22 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4A1F9070.8070204@piuha.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:36:16 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090318) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Carlson References: <4A11560C.9000806@piuha.net> <4A132A52.1040008@gmail.com> <18965.19608.816239.333462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> In-Reply-To: <18965.19608.816239.333462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: pppext@ietf.org, William Allen Simpson Subject: Re: [Pppext] Charter update X-BeenThere: pppext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: PPP Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:34:40 -0000 James, Bill, I have added text about declaring historic status. James is right that any authentication work would go elsewhere. We do not have EAP WG anymore, but we have an active EMU WG that works on improvements for EAP authentication methods. I am not aware of any other specific security needs we have in the PPP space. If we become aware of something, there needs to be a specific proposal on what we should do. I am happy to add reasonable work to the charter, but at this point I'm just not aware of any, beyond the stuff we are already doing elsewhere. Anyway, the reason for the charter update is that I would like to see the group's actual work match what the charter says. The previous charter claimed that we are actively working on advancing the RFCs; we haven't been doing that for a while and the charter should reflect that. The new charter allows this work, but stops short of making big claims about activity. Let me take this opportunity to solicit people to look at both advancing RFCs and classifying others as historic. It would be valuable work. Bill, do you have suggestions on what RFCs should become Historic? Jari Point-to-Point Protocol Extensions (pppext) Last Modified: 2009-05-29 Additional information is available at tools.ietf.org/wg/pppext Chair(s): James Carlson Internet Area Director(s): Ralph Droms Jari Arkko Internet Area Advisor: Jari Arkko Mailing Lists: General Discussion: pppext@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext In Body: subscribe Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pppext/index.html Description of Working Group: The Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP, RFC 1661) is a mature protocol with a large number of subprotocols, encapsulations and other extensions. The PPPEXT working exists to provide a forum for asking clarifications about the existing specifications and to defend against enhancements of questionable value. The group is not expected to create new specifications, and if a need for such work comes up, a recharter is required. The group may, however, advance existing specifications to the next level in the standards track, if a need for that comes up. Similarly, the group may classify existing specifications as Historic where this is appropriate. Goals and Milestones: