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Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:26:21 +0200
From: Gonzalo Camarillo <Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] Latest updated version of PPSP charter
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Hi,

>> The charter needs to state that the WG will take into account real-time
>> requirements. That is, we are not building a file sharing system but a
>> system that can handle real-time streams. The charter already says that
>> live streaming is within scope. You may or may not want to further
>> stress this point.
> 
> please propose text :-)

we could add the following sentence at the end of the first paragraph of
the charter:

"Therefore, the protocols will be able to handle media transmissions
with near real-time delivery requirements."

Cheers,

Gonzalo


From lars.eggert@nokia.com  Mon Feb  1 01:51:33 2010
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From: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
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Hi,

On 2010-2-1, at 11:26, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote:
> we could add the following sentence at the end of the first paragraph =
of
> the charter:
>=20
> "Therefore, the protocols will be able to handle media transmissions
> with near real-time delivery requirements."

thanks. I made a similar change; the current working copy of the charter =
and a diff to what I previously sent is attached.

Lars


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Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) 
--------------------------------------------------
Current Status: Proposed Working Group

Chair(s):
  TBD

Transport Area Director(s):
  Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
  Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>

Transport Area Advisor:
  Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com> 

Mailing Lists:
  ppsp@ietf.org


Description of Working Group:

The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops
two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P) streaming
system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content with near
real-time delivery requirements.

Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,
"peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending
and receiving streamed media content, and include both statically
connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP
addresses that change over time. The set of peers that are participating
in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers
are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta
information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.

The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between
trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling
and control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP
"peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming
data within the time constraints required by specific content items.
The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of
meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and
content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and
exchange of media data availability between the peers.

Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and
transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not chartered
to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques
or other components of a P2P streaming system such as playout
scheduling and control, etc.

The work items of the PPSP WG are:

  (1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the
      proposed P2P streaming system, motivates the desire for 
      standardized protocols, defines the envisioned scope of those
      standardized components and discusses common terminologies and
      concepts.

  (2) A "requirements" document that details the specific functional,
      operational and performance requirements of the two PPSP protocols.

  (3) An "architectural survey" document that summarizes current
      P2P streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P
      streaming systems, and highlights best current practices.

  (4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol.

  (5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.

  (6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and
      existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be
      combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.
      This document may also discuss variants of such a system that,
      for example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
      descriptions in the peer protocol for more robust streaming.

The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in
other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever
extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs
are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the
requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design
of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP.


Goals and Milestones:

Dec 2010   Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational
Apr 2011   Submit architectural survey to IESG as Informational
Apr 2011   Submit requirements document to IESG as Informational
Aug 2011   Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard 
Aug 2011   Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard
Dec 2011   Submit usage guide to IESG to IESG as Informational

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  <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> 
  <tr bgcolor="orange"><th></th><th>&nbsp;Untitled.txt&nbsp;</th><th> </th><th>&nbsp;ppsp.txt&nbsp;</th><th></th></tr> 
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l1" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> line 22</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r1" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> line 22</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Transport Area Advisor:</td><td> </td><td class="right">Transport Area Advisor:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"> Lars Eggert &lt;lars.eggert@nokia.com&gt;</td><td> </td><td class="right"> Lars Eggert &lt;lars.eggert@nokia.com&gt;</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Mailing Lists:</td><td> </td><td class="right">Mailing Lists:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"> ppsp@ietf.org</td><td> </td><td class="right"> ppsp@ietf.org</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Description of Working Group:</td><td> </td><td class="right">Description of Working Group:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops</td><td> </td><td class="right">The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P) streaming</td><td> </td><td class="right">two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P) streaming</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0001" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media <span class="delete">content.</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media <span class="insert">content with near</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock"></td><td> </td><td class="rblock"><span class="insert">real-time delivery requirements.</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,</td><td> </td><td class="right">Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">"peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending</td><td> </td><td class="right">"peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">and receiving streamed media content, and include both statically</td><td> </td><td class="right">and receiving streamed media content, and include both statically</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP</td><td> </td><td class="right">connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">addresses that change over time. The set of peers that are participating</td><td> </td><td class="right">addresses that change over time. The set of peers that are participating</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers</td><td> </td><td class="right">in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta</td><td> </td><td class="right">are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.</td><td> </td><td class="right">information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between</td><td> </td><td class="right">The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling</td><td> </td><td class="right">trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">and control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP</td><td> </td><td class="right">and control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">"peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming</td><td> </td><td class="right">"peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">data within the time constraints required by specific content items.</td><td> </td><td class="right">data within the time constraints required by specific content items.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of</td><td> </td><td class="right">The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and</td><td> </td><td class="right">meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and</td><td> </td><td class="right">content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0002" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">exchange of media data between the peers.</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">exchange of media data <span class="insert">availability </span>between the peers.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and</td><td> </td><td class="right">Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not chartered</td><td> </td><td class="right">transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not chartered</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques</td><td> </td><td class="right">to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">or other components of a P2P streaming system such as playout</td><td> </td><td class="right">or other components of a P2P streaming system such as playout</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">scheduling and control, etc.</td><td> </td><td class="right">scheduling and control, etc.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">The work items of the PPSP WG are:</td><td> </td><td class="right">The work items of the PPSP WG are:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"> (1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the</td><td> </td><td class="right"> (1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno"></td></tr>
      <tr bgcolor="gray" ><td></td><th><a name="part-l2" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> line 73</em></th><th> </th><th><a name="part-r2" /><small>skipping to change at</small><em> line 74</em></th><td></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"> (4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol.</td><td> </td><td class="right"> (4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"> (5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.</td><td> </td><td class="right"> (5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"> (6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and</td><td> </td><td class="right"> (6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be</td><td> </td><td class="right">     existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.</td><td> </td><td class="right">     combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     This document may also discuss variants of such a system that,</td><td> </td><td class="right">     This document may also discuss variants of such a system that,</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">     for example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk</td><td> </td><td class="right">     for example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0003" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">     <span class="delete">descriptions in</span> peer protocol for more robust streaming.</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">     <span class="insert"> descriptions in the</span> peer protocol for more robust streaming.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in</td><td> </td><td class="right">The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever</td><td> </td><td class="right">other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs</td><td> </td><td class="right">extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the</td><td> </td><td class="right">are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design</td><td> </td><td class="right">requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP.</td><td> </td><td class="right">of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Goals and Milestones:</td><td> </td><td class="right">Goals and Milestones:</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>

     <tr><td></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td></td></tr>
     <tr bgcolor="gray"><th colspan="5" align="center"><a name="end">&nbsp;End of changes. 3 change blocks.&nbsp;</a></th></tr>
     <tr class="stats"><td></td><th><i>3 lines changed or deleted</i></th><th><i> </i></th><th><i>4 lines changed or added</i></th><td></td></tr>
     <tr><td colspan="5" align="center" class="small"><br/>This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.36. The latest version is available from <a href="http://www.tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/" >http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/</a> </td></tr>
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   </body>
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From gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com  Mon Feb  1 02:22:51 2010
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Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:22:04 +0200
From: Gonzalo Camarillo <Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] Latest updated version of PPSP charter
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Hi Lars,

thanks for making the change. At this point, I think the charter is
ready to be reviewed by the IESG.

Thanks,

Gonzalo


Lars Eggert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2010-2-1, at 11:26, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote:
>> we could add the following sentence at the end of the first paragraph of
>> the charter:
>>
>> "Therefore, the protocols will be able to handle media transmissions
>> with near real-time delivery requirements."
> 
> thanks. I made a similar change; the current working copy of the charter and a diff to what I previously sent is attached.
> 
> Lars
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>  
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>    
>    
>    
>    
>  
>   
> 	 Untitled.txt 		 ppsp.txt 	
> 				
> 	skipping to change at/ line 22/		skipping to change at/ line 22/	
> 	Transport Area Advisor:		Transport Area Advisor:	
> 	Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>		Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>	
> 				
> 	Mailing Lists:		Mailing Lists:	
> 	ppsp@ietf.org		ppsp@ietf.org	
> 				
> 	Description of Working Group:		Description of Working Group:	
> 				
> 	The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops		The
> Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops	
> 	two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P)
> streaming		two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P)
> streaming	
> 	system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content.		system
> for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content with near	
> 			real-time delivery requirements.	
> 				
> 	Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,	
> Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,	
> 	"peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending	
> "peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending	
> 	and receiving streamed media content, and include both statically		and
> receiving streamed media content, and include both statically	
> 	connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP	
> connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP	
> 	addresses that change over time. The set of peers that are
> participating		addresses that change over time. The set of peers that
> are participating	
> 	in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers		in
> a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers	
> 	are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta		are
> well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta	
> 	information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.	
> information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.	
> 				
> 	The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between		The
> PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between	
> 	trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling	
> trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling	
> 	and control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP		and
> control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP	
> 	"peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming	
> "peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming	
> 	data within the time constraints required by specific content items.	
> data within the time constraints required by specific content items.	
> 	The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of		The
> tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of	
> 	meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and	
> meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and	
> 	content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and	
> content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and	
> 	exchange of media data between the peers.		exchange of media data
> availability between the peers.	
> 				
> 	Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and	
> Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and	
> 	transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not
> chartered		transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not
> chartered	
> 	to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques		to
> work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques	
> 	or other components of a P2P streaming system such as playout		or other
> components of a P2P streaming system such as playout	
> 	scheduling and control, etc.		scheduling and control, etc.	
> 				
> 	The work items of the PPSP WG are:		The work items of the PPSP WG are:	
> 				
> 	(1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the		(1) A
> "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the	
> 				
> 	skipping to change at/ line 73/		skipping to change at/ line 74/	
> 				
> 	(4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol.		(4) A detailed
> specification of the PPSP peer protocol.	
> 				
> 	(5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.		(5) A
> detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.	
> 				
> 	(6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and		(6)
> A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and	
> 	existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be		existing
> IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be	
> 	combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.	
> combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.	
> 	This document may also discuss variants of such a system that,		This
> document may also discuss variants of such a system that,	
> 	for example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk		for
> example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk	
> 	descriptions in peer protocol for more robust streaming.		descriptions
> in the peer protocol for more robust streaming.	
> 				
> 	The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in		The
> work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in	
> 	other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever	
> other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever	
> 	extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs	
> extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs	
> 	are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the		are
> deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the	
> 	requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design	
> requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design	
> 	of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP.		of such extensions is out
> of scope for PPSP.	
> 				
> 	Goals and Milestones:		Goals and Milestones:	
> 				
> 				
>  End of changes. 3 change blocks. 
> 	/3 lines changed or deleted/	/ /	/4 lines changed or added/	
> 
> This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.36. The latest version is
> available from http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/
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> 
>    


From albertojgc@gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 13:07:13 2010
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
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Hi all,

Just one suggestion regarding to the paragraph which describes the
"(6) usage document". I propose the following minor change:

original:

"This document may also discuss variants of such a system that, for
example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk for
descriptions in peer protocol for more robust streaming"

new text:

"This document may also discuss variants of such a system that, for
example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
descriptions in peer protocol for more robust and scalable streaming
(appropriated for dealing with network and terminal heterogeneity)".

Just highlight that layered media coding also provides scalability (in
terms of image quality), which is a key feature when dealing with
device heterogeneity.

Best regards and sorry for the inconvenience,

Alberto.

>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:22:04 +0200
> From: Gonzalo Camarillo <Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com>
> Subject: Re: [ppsp] Latest updated version of PPSP charter
> To: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
> Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" <ppsp@ietf.org>
> Message-ID: <4B66AB4C.4030706@ericsson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Lars,
>
> thanks for making the change. At this point, I think the charter is
> ready to be reviewed by the IESG.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gonzalo
>
>
> Lars Eggert wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 2010-2-1, at 11:26, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote:
>>> we could add the following sentence at the end of the first paragraph o=
f
>>> the charter:
>>>
>>> "Therefore, the protocols will be able to handle media transmissions
>>> with near real-time delivery requirements."
>>
>> thanks. I made a similar change; the current working copy of the charter=
 and a diff to what I previously sent is attached.
>>
>> Lars
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Untitled.txt =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ppsp.txt
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to change at/ line 22/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to =
change at/ line 22/
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Transport Area Advisor: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Transport Area Advis=
or:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Mailing Lists: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Mailing Lists:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 ppsp@ietf.org =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ppsp@ietf.org
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Description of Working Group: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Descriptio=
n of Working Group:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group dev=
elops =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The
>> Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P)
>> streaming =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 two signaling and control protocols fo=
r a peer-to-peer (P2P)
>> streaming
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content.=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0system
>> for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content with near
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 real-time delivery requireme=
nts.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming syste=
m, i.e.,
>> Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 "peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively se=
nding
>> "peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 and receiving streamed media content, and include both stati=
cally =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and
>> receiving streamed media content, and include both statically
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity =
and IP
>> connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 addresses that change over time. The set of peers that are
>> participating =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 addresses that change over time. The set o=
f peers that
>> are participating
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Tr=
ackers =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0in
>> a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain =
meta =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0are
>> well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer =
set.
>> information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control bet=
ween =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The
>> PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signa=
ling
>> trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 and control protocol for communication among the peers (the =
PPSP =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0and
>> control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 "peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive =
streaming
>> "peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 data within the time constraints required by specific conten=
t items.
>> data within the time constraints required by specific content items.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchan=
ge of =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The
>> tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer li=
sts and
>> meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 content information. The peer protocol controls the advertis=
ing and
>> content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 exchange of media data between the peers. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 exchange of media data
>> availability between the peers.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encod=
ing and
>> Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not
>> chartered =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 transmission of the media content betw=
een peers. PPSP is not
>> chartered
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding tech=
niques =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0to
>> work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 or other components of a P2P streaming system such as playou=
t =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 or other
>> components of a P2P streaming system such as playout
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 scheduling and control, etc. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0scheduli=
ng and control, etc.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The work items of the PPSP WG are: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0The work items of the PPSP WG are:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview of=
 the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(1) A
>> "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to change at/ line 73/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to =
change at/ line 74/
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol. =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 (4) A detailed
>> specification of the PPSP peer protocol.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol. =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(5) A
>> detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocol=
s and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (6)
>> A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can b=
e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 existing
>> IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming sy=
stem.
>> combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 This document may also discuss variants of such a system tha=
t, =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0This
>> document may also discuss variants of such a system that,
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 for example, use layered media encoding and related media ch=
unk =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 for
>> example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 descriptions in peer protocol for more robust streaming. =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0descriptions
>> in the peer protocol for more robust streaming.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work perfor=
med in =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The
>> work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. W=
henever
>> other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 extensions or modification to the protocols developed in oth=
er WGs
>> extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0are
>> deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The =
design
>> requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0of such extensions is out
>> of scope for PPSP.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Goals and Milestones: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Goals and Mileston=
es:
>>
>>
>> =A0End of changes. 3 change blocks.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 /3 lines changed or deleted/ =A0 =A0/ / =A0 =A0 /4 lines cha=
nged or added/
>>
>> This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.36. The latest version is
>> available from http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/
>> <http://www.tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
>
> End of ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
> ***********************************
>



--=20
Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela

From lars.eggert@nokia.com  Tue Feb  2 01:26:14 2010
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Hi,

On 2010-2-1, at 23:07, Alberto Jos=E9 Gonz=E1lez Cela wrote:
> "This document may also discuss variants of such a system that, for
> example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
> descriptions in peer protocol for more robust and scalable streaming
> (appropriated for dealing with network and terminal heterogeneity)".
>=20
> Just highlight that layered media coding also provides scalability (in
> terms of image quality), which is a key feature when dealing with
> device heterogeneity.

I assume that by "dealing with device heterogeneity" you mean delivering =
different flavors of the same (layered) stream to different kinds of =
peers based on their rendering/processing capabilities?

That hasn't so far been discussed as a requirement for PPSP, as far as I =
know?

Lars=

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From albertojgc@gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 05:51:42 2010
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela?= <albertojgc@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
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Hi Lars,

Yes, I was making reference to this.

Regarding to this requirement I think it is still an open issue to be
discussed when facing the requirements document ( I introduced these
requirements some time before but remains pending). It is interesting
in order to provide support for different terminals (such as mobiles).

By the way, I think it can be added in the "usage document"
description in order to mention the benefits of considering the usage
of layered media (robustness and scalability).

Then, I propose just to add the term "scalable" in the description:

 "This document may also discuss variants of such a system that, for
 example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
 descriptions in peer protocol for more robust and scalable streaming".

BR,

Alberto.



2010/2/2 Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>:
> Hi,
>
> On 2010-2-1, at 23:07, Alberto Jos=E9 Gonz=E1lez Cela wrote:
>> "This document may also discuss variants of such a system that, for
>> example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
>> descriptions in peer protocol for more robust and scalable streaming
>> (appropriated for dealing with network and terminal heterogeneity)".
>>
>> Just highlight that layered media coding also provides scalability (in
>> terms of image quality), which is a key feature when dealing with
>> device heterogeneity.
>
> I assume that by "dealing with device heterogeneity" you mean delivering =
different flavors of the same (layered) stream to different kinds of peers =
based on their rendering/processing capabilities?
>
> That hasn't so far been discussed as a requirement for PPSP, as far as I =
know?
>
> Lars



--=20
Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela

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Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:20:26 +0800
From: Ning Zong <zongning@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <201002031659539682366@chinamobile.com>
To: 'zhangyunfei' <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, =?gb2312?B?J0FsYmVydG9fSm9z6V9Hb2564Wxlel9DZWxhJw==?= <albertojgc@gmail.com>, 'Lars Eggert' <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
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Agree with Yunfei.

By the way, the requirement document is still open and does not preclude
scalable streaming anyway.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

  _____ =20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
zhangyunfei
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:00 PM
To: Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela; Lars Eggert
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

=20

Hi Lars and Alberto,

    The meaning of scalability in p2p streaming systems mainly refer to =
how
many users/nodes the system can support without losing performance. So I
understand that this new proposed "scalable"description means that image
that displayed in the terminals can be of different qualities.

    I am afraid that if we add this in the charter,people are easily
confused about the term and why the multiple stream/layered stream
contribute to scalability.

    So I would proposed to keep the charter as it is.

=20

=20

BR

Yunfei

  _____ =20

zhangyunfei

2010-02-03

  _____ =20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-02-02 22:05:11

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Lars Eggert

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

=20

Hi  Lars,

=20

Yes,  I  was  making  reference  to  this.

=20

Regarding  to  this  requirement  I  think  it  is  still  an  open  =
issue
to  be

discussed  when  facing  the  requirements  document  (  I  introduced
these

requirements  some  time  before  but  remains  pending).  It  is
interesting

in  order  to  provide  support  for  different  terminals  (such  as
mobiles).

=20

By  the  way,  I  think  it  can  be  added  in  the  "usage  document"

description  in  order  to  mention  the  benefits  of  considering  the
usage

of  layered  media  (robustness  and  scalability).

=20

Then,  I  propose  just  to  add  the  term  "scalable"  in  the
description:

=20

 "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system  =
that,
for

 example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk

 descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
streaming".

=20

BR,

=20

Alberto.

=20

=20

=20

2010/2/2  Lars  Eggert   <lars.eggert@nokia.com >:

>  Hi,

>=20

>  On  2010-2-1,  at  23:07,  Alberto  Jos?Gonz=E1lez  Cela  wrote:

> >  "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system
that,  for

> >  example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk

> >  descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
streaming

> >  (appropriated  for  dealing  with  network  and  terminal
heterogeneity)".

> >

> >  Just  highlight  that  layered  media  coding  also  provides
scalability  (in

> >  terms  of  image  quality),  which  is  a  key  feature  when  =
dealing
with

> >  device  heterogeneity.

>=20

>  I  assume  that  by  "dealing  with  device  heterogeneity"  you  =
mean
delivering  different  flavors  of  the  same  (layered)  stream  to
different  kinds  of  peers  based  on  their  rendering/processing
capabilities?

>=20

>  That  hasn't  so  far  been  discussed  as  a  requirement  for  =
PPSP,
as  far  as  I  know?

>=20

>  Lars

=20

=20

=20

-- =20

Alberto  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela

_______________________________________________

ppsp  mailing  list

ppsp@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


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<body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Agree with =
Yunfei.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>By the way, the
requirement document is still open and does not preclude scalable =
streaming
anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>BR,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of </span></b>zhangyunfei<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February =
03, 2010
5:00 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
Alberto_Jos</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=E9_</span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Gonz</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=E1l</span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>ez_Cela;
Lars Eggert<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> ppsp@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ppsp] ppsp =
Digest,
Vol 17, Issue 2</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype=20
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path=3D"m10860,2187c10451,1746,9529,1018,9015,730,7865,152,6685,,5415,,41=
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7597l10860,21600,20995,7597v485,-1037,605,-2187,485,-3377c21115,3222,2042=
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/>
</v:shapetype><v:shape id=3D"DtsShapeName" o:spid=3D"_x0000_s2078" =
type=3D"#_x0000_t74"=20
 =
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{72207!!!1@@51B401107DBC6C7D6Onsl`m/enu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!1"=20
 =
style=3D'position:absolute;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:.05pt;height:=
.05pt;
 z-index:1;visibility:hidden'>
 <w:anchorlock/>
</v:shape><![endif]--></span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DVerdana><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Hi Lars and
Alberto,</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The meaning of scalability&nbsp;in p2p =
streaming
systems mainly refer to how many users/nodes the system can support =
without
losing performance. So I understand that this new proposed
&quot;scalable&quot;description means that image that displayed in the
terminals can be of different qualities.</span></font><font size=3D3 =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am afraid that if we add this in the
charter,people are easily confused about the term and why the multiple
stream/layered stream contribute to scalability.</span></font><font =
size=3D3
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So I would proposed to keep the charter =
as it
is.</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'>BR</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'>Yunfei</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dsilver face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Verdana;color:silver'>zhangyunfei</span></font><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dsilver
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:silver'><o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><st1:chsdate
IsROCDate=3D"False" IsLunarDate=3D"False" Day=3D"3" Month=3D"2" =
Year=3D"2010" w:st=3D"on"><font
 size=3D2 color=3Dsilver face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 =
font-family:Verdana;color:silver'>2010-02-03</span></font></st1:chsdate><=
font
size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><strong><b><font size=3D2
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=
=BA</span></font></b></strong><font
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
Alberto_Jos</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=E9_</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Gonz</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=E1l</span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>ez_Cela</span></font><font=

size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><strong><b><font size=3D2
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=
=E4=A3=BA</span></font></b></strong><font
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
<st1:chsdate IsROCDate=3D"False" IsLunarDate=3D"False" Day=3D"2" =
Month=3D"2" Year=3D"2010"
w:st=3D"on">2010-02-02</st1:chsdate>&nbsp;22:05:11</span></font><font =
size=3D3
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><strong><b><font size=3D2
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=
=BA</span></font></b></strong><font
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
Lars Eggert</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><strong><b><font size=3D2
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</s=
pan></font></b></strong><font
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
ppsp@ietf.org</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><strong><b><font size=3D2
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA</s=
pan></font></b></strong><font
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2</span></font><font size=3D3 =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D3 face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Hi
&nbsp;Lars,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Yes,
&nbsp;I &nbsp;was &nbsp;making &nbsp;reference &nbsp;to =
&nbsp;this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Regarding
&nbsp;to &nbsp;this &nbsp;requirement &nbsp;I &nbsp;think &nbsp;it =
&nbsp;is
&nbsp;still &nbsp;an &nbsp;open &nbsp;issue &nbsp;to =
&nbsp;be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>discussed
&nbsp;when &nbsp;facing &nbsp;the &nbsp;requirements &nbsp;document =
&nbsp;(
&nbsp;I &nbsp;introduced &nbsp;these<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>requirements
&nbsp;some &nbsp;time &nbsp;before &nbsp;but &nbsp;remains =
&nbsp;pending).
&nbsp;It &nbsp;is &nbsp;interesting<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>in
&nbsp;order &nbsp;to &nbsp;provide &nbsp;support &nbsp;for =
&nbsp;different
&nbsp;terminals &nbsp;(such &nbsp;as =
&nbsp;mobiles).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>By
&nbsp;the &nbsp;way, &nbsp;I &nbsp;think &nbsp;it &nbsp;can &nbsp;be
&nbsp;added &nbsp;in &nbsp;the &nbsp;&quot;usage =
&nbsp;document&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>description
&nbsp;in &nbsp;order &nbsp;to &nbsp;mention &nbsp;the &nbsp;benefits =
&nbsp;of
&nbsp;considering &nbsp;the &nbsp;usage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>of
&nbsp;layered &nbsp;media &nbsp;(robustness &nbsp;and =
&nbsp;scalability).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Then,
&nbsp;I &nbsp;propose &nbsp;just &nbsp;to &nbsp;add &nbsp;the &nbsp;term
&nbsp;&quot;scalable&quot; &nbsp;in &nbsp;the =
&nbsp;description:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;&quot;This
&nbsp;document &nbsp;may &nbsp;also &nbsp;discuss &nbsp;variants =
&nbsp;of
&nbsp;such &nbsp;a &nbsp;system &nbsp;that, =
&nbsp;for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;example,
&nbsp;use &nbsp;layered &nbsp;media &nbsp;encoding &nbsp;and =
&nbsp;related
&nbsp;media &nbsp;chunk<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;descriptions
&nbsp;in &nbsp;peer &nbsp;protocol &nbsp;for &nbsp;more &nbsp;robust =
&nbsp;and
&nbsp;scalable &nbsp;streaming&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>BR,<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Alberto.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><st1:chsdate
IsROCDate=3D"False" IsLunarDate=3D"False" Day=3D"2" Month=3D"2" =
Year=3D"2010" w:st=3D"on"><font
 size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>2010/2/2</span></font></st=
1:chsdate><font
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
&nbsp;Lars &nbsp;Eggert &nbsp; &lt;lars.eggert@nokia.com =
&gt;:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&nbsp;Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&nbsp;On &nbsp;<st1:chsdate IsROCDate=3D"False" IsLunarDate=3D"False" =
Day=3D"1"
Month=3D"2" Year=3D"2010" w:st=3D"on">2010-2-1</st1:chsdate>, &nbsp;at =
&nbsp;23:07,
&nbsp;Alberto &nbsp;Jos?Gonz</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=E1l</span></font><fo=
nt size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>ez
&nbsp;Cela &nbsp;wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt; &nbsp;&quot;This &nbsp;document &nbsp;may &nbsp;also &nbsp;discuss
&nbsp;variants &nbsp;of &nbsp;such &nbsp;a &nbsp;system &nbsp;that, =
&nbsp;for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt; &nbsp;example, &nbsp;use &nbsp;layered &nbsp;media &nbsp;encoding
&nbsp;and &nbsp;related &nbsp;media =
&nbsp;chunk<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt; &nbsp;descriptions &nbsp;in &nbsp;peer &nbsp;protocol &nbsp;for =
&nbsp;more
&nbsp;robust &nbsp;and &nbsp;scalable =
&nbsp;streaming<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt; &nbsp;(appropriated &nbsp;for &nbsp;dealing &nbsp;with =
&nbsp;network
&nbsp;and &nbsp;terminal =
&nbsp;heterogeneity)&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt; &nbsp;Just &nbsp;highlight &nbsp;that &nbsp;layered &nbsp;media
&nbsp;coding &nbsp;also &nbsp;provides &nbsp;scalability =
&nbsp;(in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt; &nbsp;terms &nbsp;of &nbsp;image &nbsp;quality), &nbsp;which =
&nbsp;is
&nbsp;a &nbsp;key &nbsp;feature &nbsp;when &nbsp;dealing =
&nbsp;with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&gt; &nbsp;device &nbsp;heterogeneity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&nbsp;I &nbsp;assume &nbsp;that &nbsp;by &nbsp;&quot;dealing &nbsp;with
&nbsp;device &nbsp;heterogeneity&quot; &nbsp;you &nbsp;mean =
&nbsp;delivering
&nbsp;different &nbsp;flavors &nbsp;of &nbsp;the &nbsp;same =
&nbsp;(layered)
&nbsp;stream &nbsp;to &nbsp;different &nbsp;kinds &nbsp;of &nbsp;peers
&nbsp;based &nbsp;on &nbsp;their &nbsp;rendering/processing =
&nbsp;capabilities?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&nbsp;That &nbsp;hasn't &nbsp;so &nbsp;far &nbsp;been &nbsp;discussed =
&nbsp;as
&nbsp;a &nbsp;requirement &nbsp;for &nbsp;PPSP, &nbsp;as &nbsp;far =
&nbsp;as
&nbsp;I &nbsp;know?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&gt;
&nbsp;Lars<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>--
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Alberto
&nbsp;Jose &nbsp;Gonzalez &nbsp;Cela<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>__________________________=
_____________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>ppsp
&nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>ppsp@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/ppsp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From melodysong@huawei.com  Wed Feb  3 01:35:43 2010
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Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:36:11 +0800
From: Song Haibin <melodysong@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <004801caa4b2$1f9590b0$510ca40a@china.huawei.com>
To: 'Ning Zong' <zongning@huawei.com>, 'zhangyunfei' <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, =?gb2312?B?J0FsYmVydG9fSm9z6V9Hb2564Wxlel9DZWxhJw==?= <albertojgc@gmail.com>, 'Lars Eggert' <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
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Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
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+1
=20
I think people understand layered media encoding, with that as an =
example is
clear enough : )
=20

Xie Xie,
Haibin


=20


  _____ =20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Ning
Zong
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:20 PM
To: 'zhangyunfei'; 'Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela'; 'Lars Eggert'
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2



Agree with Yunfei.

By the way, the requirement document is still open and does not preclude
scalable streaming anyway.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20


  _____ =20


From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
zhangyunfei
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:00 PM
To: Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela; Lars Eggert
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

=20

Hi Lars and Alberto,

    The meaning of scalability in p2p streaming systems mainly refer to =
how
many users/nodes the system can support without losing performance. So I
understand that this new proposed "scalable"description means that image
that displayed in the terminals can be of different qualities.

    I am afraid that if we add this in the charter,people are easily
confused about the term and why the multiple stream/layered stream
contribute to scalability.

    So I would proposed to keep the charter as it is.

=20

=20

BR

Yunfei


  _____ =20


zhangyunfei

2010-02-03


  _____ =20


=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-02-02 22:05:11

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Lars Eggert

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

=20

Hi  Lars,

=20

Yes,  I  was  making  reference  to  this.

=20

Regarding  to  this  requirement  I  think  it  is  still  an  open  =
issue
to  be

discussed  when  facing  the  requirements  document  (  I  introduced
these

requirements  some  time  before  but  remains  pending).  It  is
interesting

in  order  to  provide  support  for  different  terminals  (such  as
mobiles).

=20

By  the  way,  I  think  it  can  be  added  in  the  "usage  document"

description  in  order  to  mention  the  benefits  of  considering  the
usage

of  layered  media  (robustness  and  scalability).

=20

Then,  I  propose  just  to  add  the  term  "scalable"  in  the
description:

=20

 "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system  =
that,
for

 example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk

 descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
streaming".

=20

BR,

=20

Alberto.

=20

=20

=20

2010/2/2  Lars  Eggert   <lars.eggert@nokia.com >:

>  Hi,

>=20

>  On  2010-2-1,  at  23:07,  Alberto  Jos?Gonz=E1lez  Cela  wrote:

> >  "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system
that,  for

> >  example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk

> >  descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
streaming

> >  (appropriated  for  dealing  with  network  and  terminal
heterogeneity)".

> >

> >  Just  highlight  that  layered  media  coding  also  provides
scalability  (in

> >  terms  of  image  quality),  which  is  a  key  feature  when  =
dealing
with

> >  device  heterogeneity.

>=20

>  I  assume  that  by  "dealing  with  device  heterogeneity"  you  =
mean
delivering  different  flavors  of  the  same  (layered)  stream  to
different  kinds  of  peers  based  on  their  rendering/processing
capabilities?

>=20

>  That  hasn't  so  far  been  discussed  as  a  requirement  for  =
PPSP,
as  far  as  I  know?

>=20

>  Lars

=20

=20

=20

-- =20

Alberto  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela

_______________________________________________

ppsp  mailing  list

ppsp@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


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<BODY lang=3DZH-CN vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D667513209-03022010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>+1</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D667513209-03022010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D667513209-03022010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>I think people understand layered media encoding, with that as =
an example=20
is clear enough : )</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted =
from text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=3D2>Xie Xie,<BR>Haibin<BR></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-cn dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ning =
Zong<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'zhangyunfei';=20
  'Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela'; 'Lars Eggert'<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
  ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue =

  2<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Agree with=20
  Yunfei.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">By the way, =
the=20
  requirement document is still open and does not preclude scalable =
streaming=20
  anyway.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">BR,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ning=20
  Zong<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><B><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On =
Behalf Of=20
  </SPAN></B>zhangyunfei<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>=20
  Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:00 PM<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
Alberto_Jos</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=E9_</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Gonz</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=E1l</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">ez_Cela; Lars =
Eggert<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [ppsp] ppsp =
Digest, Vol 17,=20
  Issue 2</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT=20
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{72207!!!1@@51B401107DBC6C7D6Onsl`m/enu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!1"=20
 =
style=3D'position:absolute;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:.05pt;height:=
.05pt;
 z-index:1;visibility:hidden'>
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</v:shape><![endif]--></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Hi Lars =
and=20
  Alberto,</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  The meaning of scalability&nbsp;in p2p streaming systems mainly refer =
to how=20
  many users/nodes the system can support without losing performance. So =
I=20
  understand that this new proposed "scalable"description means that =
image that=20
  displayed in the terminals can be of different =
qualities.</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  I am afraid that if we add this in the charter,people are easily =
confused=20
  about the term and why the multiple stream/layered stream contribute =
to=20
  scalability.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  So I would proposed to keep the charter as it is.</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">BR</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Yunfei</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
  <HR style=3D"WIDTH: 91.5pt" align=3Dcenter width=3D122 SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  color=3Dsilver size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: silver; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">zhangyunfei</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 color=3Dsilver size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: silver; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" =
align=3Dleft><st1:chsdate w:st=3D"on"=20
  Year=3D"2010" Month=3D"2" Day=3D"3" IsLunarDate=3D"False" =
IsROCDate=3D"False"><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana color=3Dsilver size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: silver; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">2010-02-03</SPAN></FONT></st1:chsdate><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
  <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" =
align=3Dleft><STRONG><B><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> =
Alberto_Jos</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=E9_</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Gonz</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=E1l</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">ez_Cela</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" =
align=3Dleft><STRONG><B><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><F=
ONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <st1:chsdate =
w:st=3D"on"=20
  Year=3D"2010" Month=3D"2" Day=3D"2" IsLunarDate=3D"False"=20
  =
IsROCDate=3D"False">2010-02-02</st1:chsdate>&nbsp;22:05:11</SPAN></FONT><=
FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" =
align=3Dleft><STRONG><B><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> Lars =
Eggert</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" =
align=3Dleft><STRONG><B><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">=20
  ppsp@ietf.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" =
align=3Dleft><STRONG><B><FONT=20
  face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> Re: [ppsp] ppsp =
Digest, Vol 17,=20
  Issue 2</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 size=3D3><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Hi=20
  &nbsp;Lars,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Yes,=20
  &nbsp;I &nbsp;was &nbsp;making &nbsp;reference &nbsp;to=20
  &nbsp;this.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Regarding &nbsp;to =
&nbsp;this=20
  &nbsp;requirement &nbsp;I &nbsp;think &nbsp;it &nbsp;is &nbsp;still =
&nbsp;an=20
  &nbsp;open &nbsp;issue &nbsp;to =
&nbsp;be<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">discussed &nbsp;when=20
  &nbsp;facing &nbsp;the &nbsp;requirements &nbsp;document &nbsp;( =
&nbsp;I=20
  &nbsp;introduced &nbsp;these<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">requirements =
&nbsp;some=20
  &nbsp;time &nbsp;before &nbsp;but &nbsp;remains &nbsp;pending). =
&nbsp;It=20
  &nbsp;is &nbsp;interesting<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">in=20
  &nbsp;order &nbsp;to &nbsp;provide &nbsp;support &nbsp;for =
&nbsp;different=20
  &nbsp;terminals &nbsp;(such &nbsp;as=20
  &nbsp;mobiles).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">By=20
  &nbsp;the &nbsp;way, &nbsp;I &nbsp;think &nbsp;it &nbsp;can &nbsp;be=20
  &nbsp;added &nbsp;in &nbsp;the &nbsp;"usage=20
  &nbsp;document"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">description &nbsp;in =
&nbsp;order=20
  &nbsp;to &nbsp;mention &nbsp;the &nbsp;benefits &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;considering=20
  &nbsp;the &nbsp;usage<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">of=20
  &nbsp;layered &nbsp;media &nbsp;(robustness &nbsp;and=20
  &nbsp;scalability).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Then,=20
  &nbsp;I &nbsp;propose &nbsp;just &nbsp;to &nbsp;add &nbsp;the =
&nbsp;term=20
  &nbsp;"scalable" &nbsp;in &nbsp;the=20
  &nbsp;description:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">&nbsp;"This =
&nbsp;document=20
  &nbsp;may &nbsp;also &nbsp;discuss &nbsp;variants &nbsp;of &nbsp;such =
&nbsp;a=20
  &nbsp;system &nbsp;that, &nbsp;for<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">&nbsp;example, =
&nbsp;use=20
  &nbsp;layered &nbsp;media &nbsp;encoding &nbsp;and &nbsp;related =
&nbsp;media=20
  &nbsp;chunk<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">&nbsp;descriptions =
&nbsp;in=20
  &nbsp;peer &nbsp;protocol &nbsp;for &nbsp;more &nbsp;robust &nbsp;and=20
  &nbsp;scalable &nbsp;streaming".<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">BR,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Alberto.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" =
align=3Dleft><st1:chsdate w:st=3D"on"=20
  Year=3D"2010" Month=3D"2" Day=3D"2" IsLunarDate=3D"False" =
IsROCDate=3D"False"><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">2010/2/2</SPAN></FONT></st1:chsdate><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> &nbsp;Lars =
&nbsp;Eggert &nbsp;=20
  &lt;lars.eggert@nokia.com &gt;:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &nbsp;Hi,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &nbsp;On &nbsp;<st1:chsdate w:st=3D"on" Year=3D"2010" Month=3D"2" =
Day=3D"1"=20
  IsLunarDate=3D"False" IsROCDate=3D"False">2010-2-1</st1:chsdate>, =
&nbsp;at=20
  &nbsp;23:07, &nbsp;Alberto &nbsp;Jos?Gonz</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=E1l</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">ez &nbsp;Cela=20
  &nbsp;wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt; &nbsp;"This &nbsp;document &nbsp;may &nbsp;also &nbsp;discuss=20
  &nbsp;variants &nbsp;of &nbsp;such &nbsp;a &nbsp;system &nbsp;that,=20
  &nbsp;for<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt; &nbsp;example, &nbsp;use &nbsp;layered &nbsp;media &nbsp;encoding =

  &nbsp;and &nbsp;related &nbsp;media=20
  &nbsp;chunk<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt; &nbsp;descriptions &nbsp;in &nbsp;peer &nbsp;protocol &nbsp;for=20
  &nbsp;more &nbsp;robust &nbsp;and &nbsp;scalable=20
  &nbsp;streaming<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt; &nbsp;(appropriated &nbsp;for &nbsp;dealing &nbsp;with =
&nbsp;network=20
  &nbsp;and &nbsp;terminal=20
  &nbsp;heterogeneity)".<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt; &nbsp;Just &nbsp;highlight &nbsp;that &nbsp;layered &nbsp;media=20
  &nbsp;coding &nbsp;also &nbsp;provides &nbsp;scalability=20
  &nbsp;(in<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt; &nbsp;terms &nbsp;of &nbsp;image &nbsp;quality), &nbsp;which =
&nbsp;is=20
  &nbsp;a &nbsp;key &nbsp;feature &nbsp;when &nbsp;dealing=20
  &nbsp;with<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &gt; &nbsp;device =
&nbsp;heterogeneity.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &nbsp;I &nbsp;assume &nbsp;that &nbsp;by &nbsp;"dealing &nbsp;with=20
  &nbsp;device &nbsp;heterogeneity" &nbsp;you &nbsp;mean =
&nbsp;delivering=20
  &nbsp;different &nbsp;flavors &nbsp;of &nbsp;the &nbsp;same =
&nbsp;(layered)=20
  &nbsp;stream &nbsp;to &nbsp;different &nbsp;kinds &nbsp;of &nbsp;peers =

  &nbsp;based &nbsp;on &nbsp;their &nbsp;rendering/processing=20
  &nbsp;capabilities?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &nbsp;That &nbsp;hasn't &nbsp;so &nbsp;far &nbsp;been &nbsp;discussed =
&nbsp;as=20
  &nbsp;a &nbsp;requirement &nbsp;for &nbsp;PPSP, &nbsp;as &nbsp;far =
&nbsp;as=20
  &nbsp;I &nbsp;know?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&gt;=20
  &nbsp;Lars<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">--=20
  &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Alberto=20
  &nbsp;Jose &nbsp;Gonzalez =
&nbsp;Cela<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN=
></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">ppsp=20
  &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">ppsp@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FO=
NT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From albertojgc@gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 02:11:37 2010
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:12:06 +0100
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela?= <albertojgc@gmail.com>
To: Ning Zong <zongning@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
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OK, I agree.

BR,

Alberto.

2010/2/3 Ning Zong <zongning@huawei.com>:
> Agree with Yunfei.
>
> By the way, the requirement document is still open and does not preclude
> scalable streaming anyway.
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Ning Zong
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> zhangyunfei
>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:00 PM
> To: Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela; Lars Eggert
> Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
>
>
>
> Hi Lars and Alberto,
>
>     The meaning of scalability in p2p streaming systems mainly refer to h=
ow
> many users/nodes the system can support without losing performance. So I
> understand that this new proposed "scalable"description means that image
> that displayed in the terminals can be of different qualities.
>
>     I am afraid that if we add this in the charter,people are easily
> confused about the term and why the multiple stream/layered stream
> contribute to scalability.
>
>     So I would proposed to keep the charter as it is.
>
>
>
>
>
> BR
>
> Yunfei
>
> ________________________________
>
> zhangyunfei
>
> 2010-02-03
>
> ________________________________
>
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela
>
> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-02-02 22:05:11
>
> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Lars Eggert
>
> =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org
>
> =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
>
>
>
> Hi  Lars,
>
>
>
> Yes,  I  was  making  reference  to  this.
>
>
>
> Regarding  to  this  requirement  I  think  it  is  still  an  open  issu=
e
>  to  be
>
> discussed  when  facing  the  requirements  document  (  I  introduced
>  these
>
> requirements  some  time  before  but  remains  pending).  It  is
>  interesting
>
> in  order  to  provide  support  for  different  terminals  (such  as
>  mobiles).
>
>
>
> By  the  way,  I  think  it  can  be  added  in  the  "usage  document"
>
> description  in  order  to  mention  the  benefits  of  considering  the
>  usage
>
> of  layered  media  (robustness  and  scalability).
>
>
>
> Then,  I  propose  just  to  add  the  term  "scalable"  in  the
>  description:
>
>
>
>  "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system  that=
,
>  for
>
>  example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk
>
>  descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
>  streaming".
>
>
>
> BR,
>
>
>
> Alberto.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/2/2  Lars  Eggert   <lars.eggert@nokia.com >:
>
>>  Hi,
>
>>
>
>>  On  2010-2-1,  at  23:07,  Alberto  Jos?Gonz=E1lez  Cela  wrote:
>
>> >  "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system
>> >  that,  for
>
>> >  example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk
>
>> >  descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
>> >  streaming
>
>> >  (appropriated  for  dealing  with  network  and  terminal
>> >  heterogeneity)".
>
>> >
>
>> >  Just  highlight  that  layered  media  coding  also  provides
>> >  scalability  (in
>
>> >  terms  of  image  quality),  which  is  a  key  feature  when  dealin=
g
>> >  with
>
>> >  device  heterogeneity.
>
>>
>
>>  I  assume  that  by  "dealing  with  device  heterogeneity"  you  mean
>>  delivering  different  flavors  of  the  same  (layered)  stream  to
>>  different  kinds  of  peers  based  on  their  rendering/processing
>>  capabilities?
>
>>
>
>>  That  hasn't  so  far  been  discussed  as  a  requirement  for  PPSP,
>>  as  far  as  I  know?
>
>>
>
>>  Lars
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Alberto  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> ppsp  mailing  list
>
> ppsp@ietf.org
>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp



--=20
Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela

From albertojgc@gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 02:50:10 2010
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela?= <albertojgc@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
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Sorry for introducing some "noise" in the discussion.

I think the charter is OK. (+1)

Alberto.

2010/2/3 Alberto Jos=A8=A6 Gonz=A8=A2lez Cela <albertojgc@gmail.com>:
> OK, I agree.
>
> BR,
>
> Alberto.
>
> 2010/2/3 Ning Zong <zongning@huawei.com>:
>> Agree with Yunfei.
>>
>> By the way, the requirement document is still open and does not preclude
>> scalable streaming anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> Ning Zong
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>> zhangyunfei
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:00 PM
>> To: Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela; Lars Eggert
>> Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Lars and Alberto,
>>
>>     The meaning of scalability in p2p streaming systems mainly refer to =
how
>> many users/nodes the system can support without losing performance. So I
>> understand that this new proposed "scalable"description means that image
>> that displayed in the terminals can be of different qualities.
>>
>>     I am afraid that if we add this in the charter,people are easily
>> confused about the term and why the multiple stream/layered stream
>> contribute to scalability.
>>
>>     So I would proposed to keep the charter as it is.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> BR
>>
>> Yunfei
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> zhangyunfei
>>
>> 2010-02-03
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alberto_Jos=E9_Gonz=E1lez_Cela
>>
>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-02-02 22:05:11
>>
>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Lars Eggert
>>
>> =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org
>>
>> =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ppsp Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi  Lars,
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes,  I  was  making  reference  to  this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding  to  this  requirement  I  think  it  is  still  an  open  iss=
ue
>>  to  be
>>
>> discussed  when  facing  the  requirements  document  (  I  introduced
>>  these
>>
>> requirements  some  time  before  but  remains  pending).  It  is
>>  interesting
>>
>> in  order  to  provide  support  for  different  terminals  (such  as
>>  mobiles).
>>
>>
>>
>> By  the  way,  I  think  it  can  be  added  in  the  "usage  document"
>>
>> description  in  order  to  mention  the  benefits  of  considering  the
>>  usage
>>
>> of  layered  media  (robustness  and  scalability).
>>
>>
>>
>> Then,  I  propose  just  to  add  the  term  "scalable"  in  the
>>  description:
>>
>>
>>
>>  "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system  tha=
t,
>>  for
>>
>>  example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk
>>
>>  descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
>>  streaming".
>>
>>
>>
>> BR,
>>
>>
>>
>> Alberto.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/2/2  Lars  Eggert   <lars.eggert@nokia.com >:
>>
>>>  Hi,
>>
>>>
>>
>>>  On  2010-2-1,  at  23:07,  Alberto  Jos?Gonz=E1lez  Cela  wrote:
>>
>>> >  "This  document  may  also  discuss  variants  of  such  a  system
>>> >  that,  for
>>
>>> >  example,  use  layered  media  encoding  and  related  media  chunk
>>
>>> >  descriptions  in  peer  protocol  for  more  robust  and  scalable
>>> >  streaming
>>
>>> >  (appropriated  for  dealing  with  network  and  terminal
>>> >  heterogeneity)".
>>
>>> >
>>
>>> >  Just  highlight  that  layered  media  coding  also  provides
>>> >  scalability  (in
>>
>>> >  terms  of  image  quality),  which  is  a  key  feature  when  deali=
ng
>>> >  with
>>
>>> >  device  heterogeneity.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>  I  assume  that  by  "dealing  with  device  heterogeneity"  you  mean
>>>  delivering  different  flavors  of  the  same  (layered)  stream  to
>>>  different  kinds  of  peers  based  on  their  rendering/processing
>>>  capabilities?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>  That  hasn't  so  far  been  discussed  as  a  requirement  for  PPSP,
>>>  as  far  as  I  know?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>  Lars
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Alberto  Jose  Gonzalez  Cela
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> ppsp  mailing  list
>>
>> ppsp@ietf.org
>>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
>
>
> --
> Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela
>



--=20
Alberto Jose Gonzalez Cela

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+1. This version looks good to me. If things move forward, I think
there is a great deal of interesting work to be done in this group.

David

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:22 AM, Gonzalo Camarillo
<Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi Lars,
>
> thanks for making the change. At this point, I think the charter is
> ready to be reviewed by the IESG.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gonzalo
>
>
> Lars Eggert wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 2010-2-1, at 11:26, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote:
>>> we could add the following sentence at the end of the first paragraph o=
f
>>> the charter:
>>>
>>> "Therefore, the protocols will be able to handle media transmissions
>>> with near real-time delivery requirements."
>>
>> thanks. I made a similar change; the current working copy of the charter=
 and a diff to what I previously sent is attached.
>>
>> Lars
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Untitled.txt =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ppsp.txt
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to change at/ line 22/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to =
change at/ line 22/
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Transport Area Advisor: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Transport Area Advis=
or:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Mailing Lists: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Mailing Lists:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 ppsp@ietf.org =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ppsp@ietf.org
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Description of Working Group: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Descriptio=
n of Working Group:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group dev=
elops =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The
>> Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P)
>> streaming =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 two signaling and control protocols fo=
r a peer-to-peer (P2P)
>> streaming
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content.=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0system
>> for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content with near
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 real-time delivery requireme=
nts.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming syste=
m, i.e.,
>> Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 "peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively se=
nding
>> "peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 and receiving streamed media content, and include both stati=
cally =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and
>> receiving streamed media content, and include both statically
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity =
and IP
>> connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 addresses that change over time. The set of peers that are
>> participating =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 addresses that change over time. The set o=
f peers that
>> are participating
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Tr=
ackers =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0in
>> a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain =
meta =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0are
>> well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer =
set.
>> information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control bet=
ween =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The
>> PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signa=
ling
>> trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 and control protocol for communication among the peers (the =
PPSP =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0and
>> control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 "peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive =
streaming
>> "peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 data within the time constraints required by specific conten=
t items.
>> data within the time constraints required by specific content items.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchan=
ge of =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The
>> tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer li=
sts and
>> meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 content information. The peer protocol controls the advertis=
ing and
>> content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 exchange of media data between the peers. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 exchange of media data
>> availability between the peers.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encod=
ing and
>> Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not
>> chartered =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 transmission of the media content betw=
een peers. PPSP is not
>> chartered
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding tech=
niques =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0to
>> work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 or other components of a P2P streaming system such as playou=
t =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 or other
>> components of a P2P streaming system such as playout
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 scheduling and control, etc. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0scheduli=
ng and control, etc.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The work items of the PPSP WG are: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0The work items of the PPSP WG are:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview of=
 the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(1) A
>> "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to change at/ line 73/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to =
change at/ line 74/
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol. =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 (4) A detailed
>> specification of the PPSP peer protocol.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol. =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(5) A
>> detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocol=
s and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (6)
>> A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can b=
e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 existing
>> IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming sy=
stem.
>> combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 This document may also discuss variants of such a system tha=
t, =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0This
>> document may also discuss variants of such a system that,
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 for example, use layered media encoding and related media ch=
unk =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 for
>> example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 descriptions in peer protocol for more robust streaming. =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0descriptions
>> in the peer protocol for more robust streaming.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work perfor=
med in =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The
>> work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. W=
henever
>> other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 extensions or modification to the protocols developed in oth=
er WGs
>> extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0are
>> deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The =
design
>> requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0of such extensions is out
>> of scope for PPSP.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Goals and Milestones: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Goals and Mileston=
es:
>>
>>
>> =A0End of changes. 3 change blocks.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 /3 lines changed or deleted/ =A0 =A0/ / =A0 =A0 /4 lines cha=
nged or added/
>>
>> This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.36. The latest version is
>> available from http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/
>> <http://www.tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>

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From: "Hui Zhang" <huizhang@nec-labs.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] Latest updated version of PPSP charter
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I have one comment on the function description of the peer protocol:
"
The peer protocol controls the advertising=20
and exchange of media data availability between the peers
"

While we agree that it does not involve in the media transmission =
process,=20
The peer protocol may provide a negotiation step to decide the =
underlying media transmission protocol. Therefore, the above description =
might be extended as:
"
The peer protocol controls the advertising=20
and exchange of media data availability, and the underlying media =
transmission protocol negotiation between the peers
"

Regards,

Hui

-----Original Message-----
From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
David A. Bryan
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
To: Gonzalo Camarillo
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] Latest updated version of PPSP charter

+1. This version looks good to me. If things move forward, I think
there is a great deal of interesting work to be done in this group.

David

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:22 AM, Gonzalo Camarillo
<Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi Lars,
>
> thanks for making the change. At this point, I think the charter is
> ready to be reviewed by the IESG.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gonzalo
>
>
> Lars Eggert wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 2010-2-1, at 11:26, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote:
>>> we could add the following sentence at the end of the first =
paragraph of
>>> the charter:
>>>
>>> "Therefore, the protocols will be able to handle media transmissions
>>> with near real-time delivery requirements."
>>
>> thanks. I made a similar change; the current working copy of the =
charter and a diff to what I previously sent is attached.
>>
>> Lars
>>
>>
>>
>> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Untitled.txt =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ppsp.txt
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to change at/ line 22/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping =
to change at/ line 22/
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Transport Area Advisor: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Transport Area =
Advisor:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Mailing Lists: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Mailing Lists:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 ppsp@ietf.org =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ppsp@ietf.org
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Description of Working Group: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
Description of Working Group:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group =
develops =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The
>> Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer =
(P2P)
>> streaming =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 two signaling and control protocols =
for a peer-to-peer (P2P)
>> streaming
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media =
content. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0system
>> for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content with near
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 real-time delivery =
requirements.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming =
system, i.e.,
>> Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 "peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively =
sending
>> "peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 and receiving streamed media content, and include both =
statically =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and
>> receiving streamed media content, and include both statically
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 connected hosts as well as mobile devices with =
connectivity and IP
>> connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 addresses that change over time. The set of peers that =
are
>> participating =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 addresses that change over time. The =
set of peers that
>> are participating
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. =
Trackers =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0in
>> a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that =
maintain meta =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0are
>> well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 information about the streamed content and the dynamic =
peer set.
>> information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control =
between =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The
>> PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a =
signaling
>> trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 and control protocol for communication among the peers =
(the PPSP =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0and
>> control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 "peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to =
receive streaming
>> "peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 data within the time constraints required by specific =
content items.
>> data within the time constraints required by specific content items.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic =
exchange of =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The
>> tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer =
lists and
>> meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 content information. The peer protocol controls the =
advertising and
>> content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 exchange of media data between the peers. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 exchange of media data
>> availability between the peers.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the =
encoding and
>> Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is =
not
>> chartered =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 transmission of the media content =
between peers. PPSP is not
>> chartered
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding =
techniques =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0to
>> work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 or other components of a P2P streaming system such as =
playout =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 or other
>> components of a P2P streaming system such as playout
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 scheduling and control, etc. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0scheduling and control, etc.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The work items of the PPSP WG are: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0The work items of the PPSP WG are:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview =
of the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(1) A
>> "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping to change at/ line 73/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 skipping =
to change at/ line 74/
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol. =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (4) A detailed
>> specification of the PPSP peer protocol.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker =
protocol. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(5) A
>> detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 (6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP =
protocols and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (6)
>> A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, =
can be =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 existing
>> IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming =
system.
>> combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 This document may also discuss variants of such a system =
that, =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0This
>> document may also discuss variants of such a system that,
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 for example, use layered media encoding and related media =
chunk =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 for
>> example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 descriptions in peer protocol for more robust streaming. =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0descriptions
>> in the peer protocol for more robust streaming.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work =
performed in =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The
>> work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and =
MMUSIC. Whenever
>> other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 extensions or modification to the protocols developed in =
other WGs
>> extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss =
the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0are
>> deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. =
The design
>> requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP. =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0of such extensions is out
>> of scope for PPSP.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 Goals and Milestones: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Goals and =
Milestones:
>>
>>
>> =A0End of changes. 3 change blocks.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 /3 lines changed or deleted/ =A0 =A0/ / =A0 =A0 /4 lines =
changed or added/
>>
>> This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.36. The latest version is
>> available from http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/
>> <http://www.tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
_______________________________________________
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Hi,

on yesterday's telechat, the IESG discussed PPSP and we'll take the =
charter to the next stage, which is external review. The announcement =
should go out in a few days.

Lars=

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--=====003_Dragon745700114100_=====--


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Subject: [ppsp] WG Review: Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP)
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A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Transport Area.  The
IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft charter
was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please
send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by Tuesday,
February 16, 2010.                           

Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) 
--------------------------------------------------
Current Status: Proposed Working Group

Chair(s):
  TBD

Transport Area Director(s):
  Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
  Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>

Transport Area Advisor:
  Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com> 

Mailing Lists:
  ppsp@ietf.org


Description of Working Group:

The Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) working group develops
two signaling and control protocols for a peer-to-peer (P2P) streaming
system for transmitting live and pre-recorded media content with near
real-time delivery requirements.

Two kinds of nodes exist in the targeted P2P streaming system, i.e.,
"peers" and "trackers". Peers are nodes that are actively sending
and receiving streamed media content, and include both statically
connected hosts as well as mobile devices with connectivity and IP
addresses that change over time. The set of peers that are participating
in a streaming session will dynamically change over time. Trackers
are well-known nodes with stable connectivity that maintain meta
information about the streamed content and the dynamic peer set.

The PPSP WG designs a protocol for signaling and control between
trackers and peers (the PPSP "tracker protocol") and a signaling
and control protocol for communication among the peers (the PPSP
"peer protocol"). The two protocols enable peers to receive streaming
data within the time constraints required by specific content items.
The tracker protocol handles the initial and periodic exchange of
meta information between trackers and peers, such as peer lists and
content information. The peer protocol controls the advertising and
exchange of media data availability between the peers.

Existing IETF and other standards will be used for the encoding and
transmission of the media content between peers. PPSP is not chartered
to work on media transmission protocols, media encoding techniques
or other components of a P2P streaming system such as playout
scheduling and control, etc.

The work items of the PPSP WG are:

  (1) A "problem statement" document that gives an overview of the
      proposed P2P streaming system, motivates the desire for 
      standardized protocols, defines the envisioned scope of those
      standardized components and discusses common terminologies and
      concepts.

  (2) A "requirements" document that details the specific functional,
      operational and performance requirements of the two PPSP protocols.

  (3) An "architectural survey" document that summarizes current
      P2P streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P
      streaming systems, and highlights best current practices.

  (4) A detailed specification of the PPSP peer protocol.

  (5) A detailed specification of the PPSP tracker protocol.

  (6) A "usage guide" that describes how the two PPSP protocols and
      existing IETF protocols, such as RELOAD, ALTO or RTSP, can be
      combined to create a deployable operational P2P streaming system.
      This document may also discuss variants of such a system that,
      for example, use layered media encoding and related media chunk
      descriptions in the peer protocol for more robust streaming.

The work items of the PPSP WG interacts with the work performed in
other IETF WGs, including P2PSIP, ALTO, LEDBAT and MMUSIC. Whenever
extensions or modification to the protocols developed in other WGs
are deemed necessary, PPSP shall communicate and discuss the
requirements for such extensions with the relevant WGs. The design
of such extensions is out of scope for PPSP.


Goals and Milestones:

Dec 2010   Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational
Apr 2011   Submit architectural survey to IESG as Informational
Apr 2011   Submit requirements document to IESG as Informational
Aug 2011   Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard 
Aug 2011   Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard
Dec 2011   Submit usage guide to IESG to IESG as Informational
