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Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:28:58 +0800
From: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <BE02F9AF5524E143A6C5D396E0DFAAEF01705B25@ASPROEXG.astri.local>
To: 'Kang Heng WU' <khwu@astri.org>, 'zhangyunfei' <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, ppsp@ietf.org
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Cc: 'Lei Zhibin James' <lei@astri.org>, 'Dah Ming Chiu' <dmchiu@ie.cuhk.edu.hk>
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
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Hi kent,
Good job!
Some comments to the draft. 
1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does Chunk ID-i in content status on Tracker
represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of all the chunks or 2)the chunk on the i-th
layer. I guess it should 1), but 'i' has been used to represent layer-i in
other places of the draft, so I think use another letter, e.g. 'k', can
avoid confusion.
 
2 Could you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look like,
what should be included.
3 

4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker

 

   When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an ACK.

   The chunk information keeps the layer number and the bitfield

   information for each layer in each chunk.

 
The red word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and layer?
Do chunks belong to respective layers, or there are different layers in one
chunk. Could provide more information? 
 
4 

4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)

 

   The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or higher

   layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the numbers

   of active layers of the peer should be included in the request

   message.

 

What does active layers means?Does it mean the layers the requesting peer
wants? 

 

 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 


  _____  

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kang
Heng WU
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 PM
To: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP



Hi Yunfei,

 

We would like to request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered
Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document is the
draft. 

 

The abstract of the draft is as follows.

The scenarios where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains
heterogeneous nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile
devices, PCs and set-top boxes may all need to access and provide service
for the same content. To support heterogeneity and maximize the total
network utilization, it may be necessary to have layered coding of content
to achieve desired results. This document defines the Layered P2P Streaming
in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer nodes.

 

Thanks,

Kangheng

 

 



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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=5>Hi<SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010> kent,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=5><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010>Good job!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=5><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010>Some comments to the draft. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=5><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010>1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does&nbsp;Chunk ID-i in 
content status&nbsp;on Tracker represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of&nbsp;all the 
chunks or 2)the&nbsp;chunk on the i-th layer. I guess it&nbsp;should 1), but 'i' 
has been used to represent layer-i in other places of the draft, so I think use 
another letter, e.g. 'k', can avoid confusion.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=5><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=5><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010>2&nbsp;Could you give some example of Layer 
Information, what does it look like, what should be 
included.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=5><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010>3 
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000>4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker<?xml:namespace 
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" 
/><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><o:p><FONT 
color=#000000>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>When a peer 
puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an 
ACK.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>The chunk 
information keeps the layer number and </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>the 
bitfield<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000><FONT color=#ff0000><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
</SPAN>information for each layer in each 
chunk</FONT>.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895381009-01042010><FONT color=#0000ff size=5>The red word 
confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and layer? Do chunks belong 
to respective layers, or there are different layers in one chunk. Could provide 
more information? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895381009-01042010><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=5>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895381009-01042010><FONT color=#0000ff size=5>4 
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000>4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><o:p><FONT 
color=#000000>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>The helpful 
neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or 
higher<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>layer peers. 
When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the 
numbers<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>of <FONT 
color=#ff0000>active</FONT> layers of the peer should be included in the 
request<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
</SPAN>message.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><FONT 
color=#000000></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><o:p><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=5>What does active 
layers means?Does&nbsp;it mean the layers the requesting peer wants? 
</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><o:p><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=5></FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt"><o:p><SPAN 
class=895381009-01042010><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=5></FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2>
<P class=MsoSalutation style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=left><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: &#23435;&#20307;; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN 
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=left><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: &#23435;&#20307;; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT 
size=4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US 
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT 
size=4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=zh-cn dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org 
  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Kang Heng 
  WU<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 PM<BR><B>To:</B> zhangyunfei; 
  ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
  [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in 
  PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Yunfei,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We would like to request a time 
  slot to present our draft "P2P Layered Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks in 
  PPSP". The attached document is the draft. </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The abstract of the draft is as 
  follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The scenarios where a Peer-to-Peer 
  Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains heterogeneous nodes need special 
  considerations. For example, mobile devices, PCs and set-top boxes may all 
  need to access and provide service for the same content. To support 
  heterogeneity and maximize the total network utilization, it may be necessary 
  to have layered coding of content to achieve desired results. This document 
  defines the Layered P2P Streaming in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer 
  nodes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kangheng</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Device Font 10cpi" size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV><BR><BR>
  <HR>
  <FONT face="Arial, sans-serif"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt" size=1>This 
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  delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it 
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From reza@cs.uoregon.edu  Tue Apr  6 01:17:19 2010
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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 01:17:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reza Rejaie <reza@cs.uoregon.edu>
To: ppsp@ietf.org
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Subject: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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Hi,

I was wondering whether there has been any discussion (or any interest) in
this working group on issues related to making P2P streaming application 
(especially live streaming) ISP friendly? Here by "ISP-friendly P2P 
streaming" I am referring to those mechanisms that try minimize the 
external traffic for individual ISPs

We have developed a couple of mesh-based ISP-friendly P2P streaming 
mechanisms and would be happy to provide more details if there is 
inetrest.

reza

From jamel@gprt.ufpe.br  Tue Apr  6 03:41:02 2010
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From: "Djamel Sadok" <jamel@gprt.ufpe.br>
To: Reza Rejaie <reza@cs.uoregon.edu>,ppsp@ietf.org
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 08:23:14 -0200
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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Reza,

I think that there are some products based on caching P2P traffic to reduce
external traffic. I do not know how legal this is given CRM issues in
different countries.

I am curious to find out about your approach.

Djamel


On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 01:17:13 -0700 (PDT), Reza Rejaie wrote
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering whether there has been any discussion (or any 
> interest) in this working group on issues related to making P2P 
> streaming application 
> (especially live streaming) ISP friendly? Here by "ISP-friendly P2P 
> streaming" I am referring to those mechanisms that try minimize the 
> external traffic for individual ISPs
> 
> We have developed a couple of mesh-based ISP-friendly P2P streaming 
> mechanisms and would be happy to provide more details if there is 
> inetrest.
> 
> reza
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


--
GPRT - Grupo de Pesquisa em Redes de Computadores e Telecomunicacoes


From guyingjie@huawei.com  Tue Apr  6 03:56:02 2010
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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:55:26 +0800
From: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <alpine.SOC.2.00.1004060109310.24739@ix.cs.uoregon.edu>
To: 'Reza Rejaie' <reza@cs.uoregon.edu>, ppsp@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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Hi Reza,
I'm really interested in the issues and would be glad to learn the details.
Except for P2P caching, ALTO and DECADE may also help in P2P streaming
optimization, though in different ways. 
PPSP will interact with the work performed in other IETF WGs, e.g. P2PSIP,
ALTO and DECADE. Since P2P streaming optimization (or say ISP friendly) is
not a special problem for P2P streaming, instead it's a common issue to be
considered in P2P application, I don't think it will be in the scope of
PPSP.

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of Reza Rejaie
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 4:17 PM
> To: ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering whether there has been any discussion (or any 
> interest) in this working group on issues related to making 
> P2P streaming application (especially live streaming) ISP 
> friendly? Here by "ISP-friendly P2P streaming" I am referring 
> to those mechanisms that try minimize the external traffic 
> for individual ISPs
> 
> We have developed a couple of mesh-based ISP-friendly P2P 
> streaming mechanisms and would be happy to provide more 
> details if there is inetrest.
> 
> reza
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


From jamel@gprt.ufpe.br  Tue Apr  6 04:14:52 2010
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From: "Djamel Sadok" <jamel@gprt.ufpe.br>
To: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>, 'Reza Rejaie' <reza@cs.uoregon.edu>, ppsp@ietf.org
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 08:52:11 -0200
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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I think that whether the ISP-friendliness issue should become or not part of
the P2P streaming protocol depends mainly on the way was such optimization is
achieved.

IF one can structure "intelligently" the streaming to facilitate its
optimization then there is a clear need to consider such optimization as part
of this work.

Djamel


On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:55:26 +0800, Y.J. Gu wrote
> Hi Reza,
> I'm really interested in the issues and would be glad to learn the details.
> Except for P2P caching, ALTO and DECADE may also help in P2P 
> streaming optimization, though in different ways. PPSP will interact 
> with the work performed in other IETF WGs, e.g. P2PSIP, ALTO and 
> DECADE. Since P2P streaming optimization (or say ISP friendly) is 
> not a special problem for P2P streaming, instead it's a common issue 
> to be considered in P2P application, I don't think it will be in the 
> scope of PPSP.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Yingjie Gu
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> > Behalf Of Reza Rejaie
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 4:17 PM
> > To: ppsp@ietf.org
> > Subject: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I was wondering whether there has been any discussion (or any 
> > interest) in this working group on issues related to making 
> > P2P streaming application (especially live streaming) ISP 
> > friendly? Here by "ISP-friendly P2P streaming" I am referring 
> > to those mechanisms that try minimize the external traffic 
> > for individual ISPs
> > 
> > We have developed a couple of mesh-based ISP-friendly P2P 
> > streaming mechanisms and would be happy to provide more 
> > details if there is inetrest.
> > 
> > reza
> > _______________________________________________
> > ppsp mailing list
> > ppsp@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


--
GPRT - Grupo de Pesquisa em Redes de Computadores e Telecomunicacoes


From guyingjie@huawei.com  Tue Apr  6 04:16:47 2010
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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:14:13 +0800
From: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Li,
In section 3 Architecture, why should there be an interface between =
cacher
and content source? When should this interface be used? I think cacher =
can
always download resource from storer. Even there is no content on =
storer,
storer can download from content source and then push to cacher.
=20
I find that both content source and storer can publish the location of a
content to Tracker, and storer will publish when the location of a =
content
changes. Why bother content source to publish the content location, as
storer can do it. And there will be repeated publishing when content =
source
publish a content and the storer, where content source stores the =
content,
will publish again.
=20
In 4.3, CSC downloading content, "In that case, the CSC SHALL use  =
RELOAD
Fetch method to fetch the content information from the overlay." .  CSC =
is a
PPSP peer, not a reload peer.  Should it be "Tracker" instead of CSC?
=20
In general, I think the system works and each functions can be supported =
by
the system. The problem is that this is a quite complicate giant, almost =
any
device, any part of the system can communicate with any other part, and =
any
part can report to Tracker. Could these make network management too
complicate and difficult?
=20
=20

Regards

Yingjie Gu

=20


  _____ =20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:29 AM
To: Softgear Ko
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN



Hi, sorry for the late reply.=20
When a new channel or new movie is added to the system, the new channel =
or
new movie's first chunk can be pushed to cacher.
Cacher selection can be based on locality and load.=20
I agree with you. I think there are two ways (the way you said and the =
way
in PPSP drafts) to get subsequent chunks. Both are OK.

Lichun




"Softgear Ko" <softgear@etri.re.kr>=20


2010-03-22 08:33=20


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
"'lichun li'" <lilichun@gmail.com>=20

=B3=AD=CB=CD
<li.lichun1@zte.com.cn>, <ppsp@ietf.org>=20

=D6=F7=CC=E2
RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN

=09




Hi, Lichun Li.

About pushing,
When does a tracker ask a cacher to pull the content?
If there are many cacher, which cachers does a tracker ask?
I  think, if a CSC knows the nearest cacher, the CSC can ask the cacher =
to
pull the content for subsequent request or other nearby CSC.

Thank you for adding our draft as a reference.

- Softgear Ko.

-----Original Message-----
From: lichun li [mailto:lilichun@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:35 PM
To: Softgear Ko
Cc: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN


Hi
I'm glad to share ideas with you and other people with common
interests. I will add your draft to references in next version.
Comments about "push", please see inline.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Softgear Ko <softgear@etri.re.kr> =
wrote:
> Hello, Lichun Li.
>
>
>
> I think this draft shows good overview of CDN supported P2P streaming
> service. I think, basically, the idea is very similar to our draft:
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-softgear-p2psip-iptv/  which =
uses
> RELOAD overlay for P2P streaming.
>
> However, your draft considers "chunk" based P2P streaming while our =
draft
> considers the live streaming only. I think we can share the idea each
other.
> Could you add our draft to References in your draft?
>
> Additionally, in your draft, only tracker (tracker overlay) can do
> "pushing". Why don't add the function which CSCs or other entities
requests
> a cacher to push/pull content from others?

Well, I have considered this before. I think this function is not
necessary if CSCs ask tracker for peer list.
But if CSCs request every chunk from nearby cachers and don't ask
tracker for peer list, CSCs need this function.
What do you think?

>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Softgear Ko
>
>
>
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
> li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:20 PM
> To: ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> We have submitted a new Internet draft entitled "A P2P CDN based =
Content
> Sharing System using PPSP and RELOAD".
> It can be accessed at:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ppsp-p2p-cdn-00.txt
> Any comments are welcome. Thanks.
>
> Abstract:
> This document defines a P2P CDN (Content Delivery Network) based
> content sharing system using PPSP (Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol)
> and RELOAD (REsource LOcation And Discovery).  The P2P CDN provides a
> unified platform for service/content providers and content sharing
> users to share content efficiently and safely.  The shared contents
> may include streaming media, files, etc.  This content sharing system
> uses PPSP as signaling protocol for P2P content distributing, and
> uses RELOAD to improve reliability and scalability.  More
> specifically, RELOAD is used to construct P2P overlays storing of
> massive contents and locating contents reliably.
>
> Best Regards,
> Lichun Li
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
>



--=20
Sincerely yours,

Lichun Li
ZTE Corporation





--------------------------------------------------------

ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail =
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3660" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>Hi =
Li,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>In section 3 =
Architecture, why=20
should there be an interface between cacher and content source? When =
should this=20
interface be used? I think cacher can always download resource from =
storer. Even=20
there is no content on storer, storer can download from content source =
and then=20
push to cacher.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>I find that both =
content source and=20
storer can publish the location of a content to Tracker, and storer will =
publish=20
when the location of a content changes. Why bother content source to =
publish the=20
content location, as storer can do it. And there will be repeated =
publishing=20
when content source publish a content and the storer, where content =
source=20
stores the content, will publish again.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>In 4.3, CSC =
downloading content,=20
"<SPAN=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: yellow; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt; mso-highlight: yellow"><FONT=20
size=3D3><FONT color=3D#000000>In that case, the CSC SHALL=20
use</FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: yellow; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt; mso-highlight: yellow"><FONT=20
size=3D3><FONT color=3D#000000><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN>RELOAD=20
Fetch method to fetch the content information from =
the</FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND: yellow; FONT-FAMILY: =
'FrutigerNext LT Regular'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-font-kerning: =
1.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-highlight: yellow; =
mso-fareast-font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; =
mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20
color=3D#000000><SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=20
</SPAN>overlay.</FONT></SPAN>"<SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010> =
.&nbsp;&nbsp;CSC=20
is a PPSP peer, not a reload peer.&nbsp; Should it be "Tracker" instead =
of=20
CSC?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D668365510-06042010></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D668365510-06042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN =
class=3D668365510-06042010>In=20
general, I think the system works and each functions can be supported by =
the=20
system. The problem is that this is a quite complicate giant, almost any =
device,=20
any part of the system can communicate with any other part, and any part =
can=20
report to Tracker. Could these make network management too complicate =
and=20
difficult?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>
<P class=3DMsoSalutation style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" =
align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =
mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =
mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT=20
size=3D4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT=20
size=3D4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-cn dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>li.lichun1@zte.com.cn<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:29 =

  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Softgear Ko<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi, sorry for the late =

  reply.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>When a new channel =
or new movie=20
  is added to the system, the new channel or new movie's first chunk can =
be=20
  pushed to cacher.<BR>Cacher selection can be based on locality and=20
  load.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I agree with you. I =
think there=20
  are two ways (the way you said and the way in PPSP drafts) to get =
subsequent=20
  chunks. Both are OK.<BR><BR>Lichun<BR></FONT><BR><BR><BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"34%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Softgear =
Ko"=20
        &lt;softgear@etri.re.kr&gt;</B> </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2010-03-22 08:33</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"65%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"'lichun li'"=20
              &lt;lilichun@gmail.com&gt;</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=CD</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>&lt;li.lichun1@zte.com.cn&gt;,=20
              &lt;ppsp@ietf.org&gt;</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=E2</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: [ppsp] New draft =
about P2P=20
              CDN</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            =
<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Hi, Lichun Li.<BR><BR>About pushing,<BR>When does a tracker =
ask a=20
  cacher to pull the content?<BR>If there are many cacher, which cachers =
does a=20
  tracker ask?<BR>I &nbsp;think, if a CSC knows the nearest cacher, the =
CSC can=20
  ask the cacher to<BR>pull the content for subsequent request or other =
nearby=20
  CSC.<BR><BR>Thank you for adding our draft as a reference.<BR><BR>- =
Softgear=20
  Ko.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: lichun li=20
  [mailto:lilichun@gmail.com] <BR>Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:35 =
PM<BR>To:=20
  Softgear Ko<BR>Cc: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn; ppsp@ietf.org<BR>Subject: =
Re: [ppsp]=20
  New draft about P2P CDN<BR><BR><BR>Hi<BR>I'm glad to share ideas with =
you and=20
  other people with common<BR>interests. I will add your draft to =
references in=20
  next version.<BR>Comments about "push", please see inline.<BR><BR>On =
Thu, Mar=20
  18, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Softgear Ko &lt;softgear@etri.re.kr&gt; =
wrote:<BR>&gt;=20
  Hello, Lichun Li.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think this draft =
shows=20
  good overview of CDN supported P2P streaming<BR>&gt; service. I think, =

  basically, the idea is very similar to our draft:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-softgear-p2psip-iptv/&nbsp; =
which=20
  uses<BR>&gt; RELOAD overlay for P2P streaming.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
However, your=20
  draft considers "chunk" based P2P streaming while our draft<BR>&gt; =
considers=20
  the live streaming only. I think we can share the idea =
each<BR>other.<BR>&gt;=20
  Could you add our draft to References in your draft?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Additionally, in your draft, only tracker (tracker overlay) can =
do<BR>&gt;=20
  "pushing". Why don't add the function which CSCs or other=20
  entities<BR>requests<BR>&gt; a cacher to push/pull content from=20
  others?<BR><BR>Well, I have considered this before. I think this =
function is=20
  not<BR>necessary if CSCs ask tracker for peer list.<BR>But if CSCs =
request=20
  every chunk from nearby cachers and don't ask<BR>tracker for peer =
list, CSCs=20
  need this function.<BR>What do you =
think?<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Regards,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Softgear Ko<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
From:=20
  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of<BR>&gt;=20
  li.lichun1@zte.com.cn<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:20 =
PM<BR>&gt;=20
  To: ppsp@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P=20
  CDN<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dear all,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; We have=20
  submitted a new Internet draft entitled "A P2P CDN based =
Content<BR>&gt;=20
  Sharing System using PPSP and RELOAD".<BR>&gt; It can be accessed =
at:<BR>&gt;=20
  =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ppsp-p2p-cdn-00.txt<BR>&gt; =
Any=20
  comments are welcome. Thanks.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Abstract:<BR>&gt; This =
document=20
  defines a P2P CDN (Content Delivery Network) based<BR>&gt; content =
sharing=20
  system using PPSP (Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol)<BR>&gt; and RELOAD =

  (REsource LOcation And Discovery). &nbsp;The P2P CDN provides =
a<BR>&gt;=20
  unified platform for service/content providers and content =
sharing<BR>&gt;=20
  users to share content efficiently and safely. &nbsp;The shared=20
  contents<BR>&gt; may include streaming media, files, etc. &nbsp;This =
content=20
  sharing system<BR>&gt; uses PPSP as signaling protocol for P2P content =

  distributing, and<BR>&gt; uses RELOAD to improve reliability and =
scalability.=20
  &nbsp;More<BR>&gt; specifically, RELOAD is used to construct P2P =
overlays=20
  storing of<BR>&gt; massive contents and locating contents=20
  reliably.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Best Regards,<BR>&gt; Lichun=20
  Li<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  =
--------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<=
BR>ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;informat=
ion&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;is&nbsp;s<BR>olely&nb=
sp;property&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;sender's&nbsp;organization.&nbsp;This&n=
bsp;mail&nbsp;communication&nbsp;is&nbsp;conf<BR>idential.&nbsp;Recipient=
s&nbsp;named&nbsp;above&nbsp;are&nbsp;obligated&nbsp;to&nbsp;maintain&nbs=
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lose&nbsp;the&nbsp;contents&nbsp;of&nbsp;this&nbsp;communication&nbsp;to&=
nbsp;others.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>This&nbsp;email&nbsp;and&nbsp;any&nbsp;fi=
les&nbsp;transmitted&nbsp;with&nbsp;it&nbsp;are&nbsp;confidential&nbsp;an=
d&nbsp;intended&nbsp;s<BR>olely&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;t=
he&nbsp;individual&nbsp;or&nbsp;entity&nbsp;to&nbsp;whom&nbsp;they&nbsp;a=
re&nbsp;addressed.&nbsp;If<BR>&nbsp;you&nbsp;have&nbsp;received&nbsp;this=
&nbsp;email&nbsp;in&nbsp;error&nbsp;please&nbsp;notify&nbsp;the&nbsp;orig=
inator&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;m<BR>essage.&nbsp;Any&nbsp;views&nbsp;expres=
sed&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;message&nbsp;are&nbsp;those&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&n=
bsp;individual&nbsp;send<BR>er.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>This&nbsp;message&nbsp=
;has&nbsp;been&nbsp;scanned&nbsp;for&nbsp;viruses&nbsp;and&nbsp;Spam&nbsp=
;by&nbsp;ZTE&nbsp;Anti-Spam&nbsp;system.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; ppsp mailing=20
  list<BR>&gt; ppsp@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR=
>--=20
  <BR>Sincerely yours,<BR><BR>Lichun Li<BR>ZTE=20
  =
Corporation<BR><BR><BR></FONT></TT><BR><BR><PRE>-------------------------=
-------------------------------
ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;information=
&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;is&nbsp;solely&nbsp;prop=
erty&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;sender's&nbsp;organization.&nbsp;This&nbsp;mai=
l&nbsp;communication&nbsp;is&nbsp;confidential.&nbsp;Recipients&nbsp;name=
d&nbsp;above&nbsp;are&nbsp;obligated&nbsp;to&nbsp;maintain&nbsp;secrecy&n=
bsp;and&nbsp;are&nbsp;not&nbsp;permitted&nbsp;to&nbsp;disclose&nbsp;the&n=
bsp;contents&nbsp;of&nbsp;this&nbsp;communication&nbsp;to&nbsp;others.
This&nbsp;email&nbsp;and&nbsp;any&nbsp;files&nbsp;transmitted&nbsp;with&n=
bsp;it&nbsp;are&nbsp;confidential&nbsp;and&nbsp;intended&nbsp;solely&nbsp=
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ty&nbsp;to&nbsp;whom&nbsp;they&nbsp;are&nbsp;addressed.&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&=
nbsp;have&nbsp;received&nbsp;this&nbsp;email&nbsp;in&nbsp;error&nbsp;plea=
se&nbsp;notify&nbsp;the&nbsp;originator&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;message.&nb=
sp;Any&nbsp;views&nbsp;expressed&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;message&nbsp;are&=
nbsp;those&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;individual&nbsp;sender.
This&nbsp;message&nbsp;has&nbsp;been&nbsp;scanned&nbsp;for&nbsp;viruses&n=
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</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From enrico.marocco@telecomitalia.it  Tue Apr  6 04:23:47 2010
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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During the last ALTO meeting we had a short presentation about this:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/alto.html#streaming

Enrico

Reza Rejaie wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering whether there has been any discussion (or any interest) in
> this working group on issues related to making P2P streaming application 
> (especially live streaming) ISP friendly? Here by "ISP-friendly P2P 
> streaming" I am referring to those mechanisms that try minimize the 
> external traffic for individual ISPs
> 
> We have developed a couple of mesh-based ISP-friendly P2P streaming 
> mechanisms and would be happy to provide more details if there is 
> inetrest.
> 
> reza
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


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From volker.hilt@alcatel-lucent.com  Tue Apr  6 05:55:27 2010
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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 08:54:41 -0400
From: Volker Hilt <volkerh@bell-labs.com>
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References: <alpine.SOC.2.00.1004060109310.24739@ix.cs.uoregon.edu>	<000301cad577$aa35d680$58548a0a@china.huawei.com> <20100406104810.M53736@gprt.ufpe.br>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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Yes, I believe that to the extend it impacts the structure/protocol of 
the streaming application localization should be considered in PPSP. 
There is obviously a tie into ALTO as well for the exchange of 
localization information.

Thanks,

Volker



Djamel Sadok wrote:
> I think that whether the ISP-friendliness issue should become or not part of
> the P2P streaming protocol depends mainly on the way was such optimization is
> achieved.
> 
> IF one can structure "intelligently" the streaming to facilitate its
> optimization then there is a clear need to consider such optimization as part
> of this work.
> 
> Djamel
> 
> 
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:55:26 +0800, Y.J. Gu wrote
>> Hi Reza,
>> I'm really interested in the issues and would be glad to learn the details.
>> Except for P2P caching, ALTO and DECADE may also help in P2P 
>> streaming optimization, though in different ways. PPSP will interact 
>> with the work performed in other IETF WGs, e.g. P2PSIP, ALTO and 
>> DECADE. Since P2P streaming optimization (or say ISP friendly) is 
>> not a special problem for P2P streaming, instead it's a common issue 
>> to be considered in P2P application, I don't think it will be in the 
>> scope of PPSP.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Yingjie Gu
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Reza Rejaie
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 4:17 PM
>>> To: ppsp@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I was wondering whether there has been any discussion (or any 
>>> interest) in this working group on issues related to making 
>>> P2P streaming application (especially live streaming) ISP 
>>> friendly? Here by "ISP-friendly P2P streaming" I am referring 
>>> to those mechanisms that try minimize the external traffic 
>>> for individual ISPs
>>>
>>> We have developed a couple of mesh-based ISP-friendly P2P 
>>> streaming mechanisms and would be happy to provide more 
>>> details if there is inetrest.
>>>
>>> reza
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ppsp mailing list
>>> ppsp@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>> _______________________________________________
>> ppsp mailing list
>> ppsp@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> 
> 
> --
> GPRT - Grupo de Pesquisa em Redes de Computadores e Telecomunicacoes
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


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To: "Volker Hilt" <volkerh@bell-labs.com>, "Djamel Sadok" <jamel@gprt.ufpe.br>
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--=====003_Dragon335788346443_=====--


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Thread-Topic: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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References: <alpine.SOC.2.00.1004060109310.24739@ix.cs.uoregon.edu>	<000301cad577$aa35d680$58548a0a@china.huawei.com><20100406104810.M53736@gprt.ufpe.br><4BBB2F11.7030200@bell-labs.com> <201004071004022348806@chinamobile.com>
From: "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)" <lin.xiao@nsn.com>
To: "ext zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, "Volker Hilt" <volkerh@bell-labs.com>, "Djamel Sadok" <jamel@gprt.ufpe.br>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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IMO, ALTO is the best way to do any optimized peer selection. It has =
defined a method for P2P tracker to communicate with ALTO server as an =
ALTO client. The logical functionalities of PPSP and ALTO should be =
separated clearly,while they can work together very well. If there is =
any PPSP specific requirement for stream optimization, we can propose it =
to ALTO WG to solve.
=20
=20
Br
Lin

________________________________

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
ext zhangyunfei
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:04 AM
To: Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming


I agree with Volker's opinion on this.There may be some optional fields =
in PPSP messages to fetch ISP or other geographical/regional =
inforamation for localizaiton.But the optimization operation can be =
envisioned to be done by ALTO.
In this case there may exist some extension requirements for ALTO to =
deal with more kinds of messages to realize traffic optimization.
=20
BR
Yunfei
=20
________________________________

zhangyunfei
2010-04-07
________________________________

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Volker Hilt
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-04-06 21:13:17
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Djamel Sadok
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
=20
Yes,  I  believe  that  to  the  extend  it  impacts  the  =
structure/protocol  of =20
the  streaming  application  localization  should  be  considered  in  =
PPSP. =20
There  is  obviously  a  tie  into  ALTO  as  well  for  the  exchange  =
of =20
localization  information.
=20
Thanks,
=20
Volker
=20
=20
=20
Djamel  Sadok  wrote:
>  I  think  that  whether  the  ISP-friendliness  issue  should  become =
 or  not  part  of
>  the  P2P  streaming  protocol  depends  mainly  on  the  way  was  =
such  optimization  is
>  achieved.
> =20
>  IF  one  can  structure  "intelligently"  the  streaming  to  =
facilitate  its
>  optimization  then  there  is  a  clear  need  to  consider  such  =
optimization  as  part
>  of  this  work.
> =20
>  Djamel
> =20
> =20
>  On  Tue,  06  Apr  2010  18:55:26  +0800,  Y.J.  Gu  wrote
> >  Hi  Reza,
> >  I'm  really  interested  in  the  issues  and  would  be  glad  to  =
learn  the  details.
> >  Except  for  P2P  caching,  ALTO  and  DECADE  may  also  help  in  =
P2P =20
> >  streaming  optimization,  though  in  different  ways.  PPSP  will  =
interact =20
> >  with  the  work  performed  in  other  IETF  WGs,  e.g.  P2PSIP,  =
ALTO  and =20
> >  DECADE.  Since  P2P  streaming  optimization  (or  say  ISP  =
friendly)  is =20
> >  not  a  special  problem  for  P2P  streaming,  instead  it's  a  =
common  issue =20
> >  to  be  considered  in  P2P  application,  I  don't  think  it  =
will  be  in  the =20
> >  scope  of  PPSP.
> >
> >  Regards
> >
> >  Yingjie  Gu
> >
> > >  -----Original  Message-----
> > >  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On  =

> > >  Behalf  Of  Reza  Rejaie
> > >  Sent:  Tuesday,  April  06,  2010  4:17  PM
> > >  To:  ppsp@ietf.org
> > >  Subject:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
> > >
> > >
> > >  Hi,
> > >
> > >  I  was  wondering  whether  there  has  been  any  discussion  =
(or  any =20
> > >  interest)  in  this  working  group  on  issues  related  to  =
making =20
> > >  P2P  streaming  application  (especially  live  streaming)  ISP =20
> > >  friendly?  Here  by  "ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming"  I  am  =
referring =20
> > >  to  those  mechanisms  that  try  minimize  the  external  =
traffic =20
> > >  for  individual  ISPs
> > >
> > >  We  have  developed  a  couple  of  mesh-based  ISP-friendly  P2P =
=20
> > >  streaming  mechanisms  and  would  be  happy  to  provide  more =20
> > >  details  if  there  is  inetrest.
> > >
> > >  reza
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  ppsp  mailing  list
> > >  ppsp@ietf.org
> > >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  ppsp  mailing  list
> >  ppsp@ietf.org
> >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> =20
> =20
>  --
>  GPRT  -  Grupo  de  Pesquisa  em  Redes  de  Computadores  e  =
Telecomunicacoes
> =20
>  _______________________________________________
>  ppsp  mailing  list
>  ppsp@ietf.org
>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
=20
_______________________________________________
ppsp  mailing  list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D743561202-07042010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff>IMO,=20
ALTO is the best way to do any optimized peer selection. It has defined =
a method=20
for P2P tracker to&nbsp;communicate with ALTO server as an ALTO client. =
The=20
logical functionalities&nbsp;of PPSP and ALTO should be&nbsp;separated=20
clearly,while&nbsp;they&nbsp;can work together very well.&nbsp;If there =
is any=20
PPSP specific requirement for stream optimization, we can propose it to =
ALTO WG=20
to solve.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D743561202-07042010><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D743561202-07042010><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D743561202-07042010><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff>Br</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D743561202-07042010><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff>Lin</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>ext=20
zhangyunfei<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:04 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok<BR><B>Cc:</B> ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
[ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I agree with Volker's =
opinion on=20
this.There may be some optional fields in PPSP messages to fetch ISP or =
other=20
geographical/regional inforamation for localizaiton.But the optimization =

operation can be envisioned to be done by ALTO.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In this =
case&nbsp;there may exist=20
some extension requirements for ALTO to deal with more kinds of messages =
to=20
realize traffic optimization.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>BR</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
<HR style=3D"WIDTH: 122px; HEIGHT: 2px" SIZE=3D2>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#c0c0c0><FONT face=3DVerdana =
size=3D2>zhangyunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>2010-04-07</FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
<HR>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</STRONG> Volker=20
Hilt</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA</STRONG>=20
2010-04-06&nbsp;21:13:17</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</STRONG> Djamel=20
Sadok</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</STRONG>=20
ppsp@ietf.org</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA</STRONG> Re: [ppsp]=20
ISP-friendly P2P streaming</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
<DIV>Yes, &nbsp;I &nbsp;believe &nbsp;that &nbsp;to &nbsp;the =
&nbsp;extend=20
&nbsp;it &nbsp;impacts &nbsp;the &nbsp;structure/protocol &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>the &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;application &nbsp;localization =
&nbsp;should=20
&nbsp;be &nbsp;considered &nbsp;in &nbsp;PPSP. &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There &nbsp;is &nbsp;obviously &nbsp;a &nbsp;tie &nbsp;into =
&nbsp;ALTO=20
&nbsp;as &nbsp;well &nbsp;for &nbsp;the &nbsp;exchange &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>localization &nbsp;information.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Volker</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Djamel &nbsp;Sadok &nbsp;wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;I &nbsp;think &nbsp;that &nbsp;whether &nbsp;the=20
&nbsp;ISP-friendliness &nbsp;issue &nbsp;should &nbsp;become &nbsp;or =
&nbsp;not=20
&nbsp;part &nbsp;of</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;the &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;protocol =
&nbsp;depends=20
&nbsp;mainly &nbsp;on &nbsp;the &nbsp;way &nbsp;was &nbsp;such=20
&nbsp;optimization &nbsp;is</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;achieved.</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;IF &nbsp;one &nbsp;can &nbsp;structure =
&nbsp;"intelligently"=20
&nbsp;the &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;to &nbsp;facilitate &nbsp;its</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;optimization &nbsp;then &nbsp;there &nbsp;is &nbsp;a =
&nbsp;clear=20
&nbsp;need &nbsp;to &nbsp;consider &nbsp;such &nbsp;optimization =
&nbsp;as=20
&nbsp;part</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;of &nbsp;this &nbsp;work.</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Djamel</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;On &nbsp;Tue, &nbsp;06 &nbsp;Apr &nbsp;2010 =
&nbsp;18:55:26=20
&nbsp;+0800, &nbsp;Y.J. &nbsp;Gu &nbsp;wrote</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;Hi &nbsp;Reza,</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;I'm &nbsp;really &nbsp;interested &nbsp;in =
&nbsp;the=20
&nbsp;issues &nbsp;and &nbsp;would &nbsp;be &nbsp;glad &nbsp;to =
&nbsp;learn=20
&nbsp;the &nbsp;details.</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;Except &nbsp;for &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;caching, =
&nbsp;ALTO=20
&nbsp;and &nbsp;DECADE &nbsp;may &nbsp;also &nbsp;help &nbsp;in =
&nbsp;P2P=20
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;optimization, &nbsp;though &nbsp;in =

&nbsp;different &nbsp;ways. &nbsp;PPSP &nbsp;will &nbsp;interact =
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;with &nbsp;the &nbsp;work &nbsp;performed &nbsp;in=20
&nbsp;other &nbsp;IETF &nbsp;WGs, &nbsp;e.g. &nbsp;P2PSIP, &nbsp;ALTO =
&nbsp;and=20
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;DECADE. &nbsp;Since &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming=20
&nbsp;optimization &nbsp;(or &nbsp;say &nbsp;ISP &nbsp;friendly) =
&nbsp;is=20
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;not &nbsp;a &nbsp;special &nbsp;problem &nbsp;for =
&nbsp;P2P=20
&nbsp;streaming, &nbsp;instead &nbsp;it's &nbsp;a &nbsp;common =
&nbsp;issue=20
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;to &nbsp;be &nbsp;considered &nbsp;in &nbsp;P2P=20
&nbsp;application, &nbsp;I &nbsp;don't &nbsp;think &nbsp;it &nbsp;will =
&nbsp;be=20
&nbsp;in &nbsp;the &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;scope &nbsp;of &nbsp;PPSP.</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;Regards</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;Yingjie &nbsp;Gu</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;-----Original &nbsp;Message-----</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;From: &nbsp;ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
&nbsp;[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] &nbsp;On &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;Behalf &nbsp;Of &nbsp;Reza &nbsp;Rejaie</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;Sent: &nbsp;Tuesday, &nbsp;April &nbsp;06, =
&nbsp;2010=20
&nbsp;4:17 &nbsp;PM</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;To: &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;Subject: &nbsp;[ppsp] &nbsp;ISP-friendly =
&nbsp;P2P=20
&nbsp;streaming</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;I &nbsp;was &nbsp;wondering &nbsp;whether =
&nbsp;there=20
&nbsp;has &nbsp;been &nbsp;any &nbsp;discussion &nbsp;(or &nbsp;any =
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;interest) &nbsp;in &nbsp;this &nbsp;working=20
&nbsp;group &nbsp;on &nbsp;issues &nbsp;related &nbsp;to &nbsp;making=20
&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;application=20
&nbsp;(especially &nbsp;live &nbsp;streaming) &nbsp;ISP &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;friendly? &nbsp;Here &nbsp;by =
&nbsp;"ISP-friendly=20
&nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming" &nbsp;I &nbsp;am &nbsp;referring &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;to &nbsp;those &nbsp;mechanisms &nbsp;that =
&nbsp;try=20
&nbsp;minimize &nbsp;the &nbsp;external &nbsp;traffic &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;for &nbsp;individual &nbsp;ISPs</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;We &nbsp;have &nbsp;developed &nbsp;a =
&nbsp;couple=20
&nbsp;of &nbsp;mesh-based &nbsp;ISP-friendly &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;mechanisms &nbsp;and =
&nbsp;would=20
&nbsp;be &nbsp;happy &nbsp;to &nbsp;provide &nbsp;more &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;details &nbsp;if &nbsp;there &nbsp;is=20
&nbsp;inetrest.</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;reza</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&nbsp;_______________________________________________</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; =
&nbsp;_______________________________________________</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;--</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;GPRT &nbsp;- &nbsp;Grupo &nbsp;de &nbsp;Pesquisa =
&nbsp;em=20
&nbsp;Redes &nbsp;de &nbsp;Computadores &nbsp;e =
&nbsp;Telecomunicacoes</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;_______________________________________________</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; &nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>_______________________________________________</DIV>
<DIV>ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list</DIV>
<DIV>ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
<DIV>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY>=
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From jamel@gprt.ufpe.br  Wed Apr  7 03:23:29 2010
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 07:05:37 -0300 (BRT)
From: "DJamel H. Sadok" <jamel@gprt.ufpe.br>
To: "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)" <lin.xiao@nsn.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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As far as peer selection is done, then I agree that it is within ALTO=B4s=
=20
scope. But what about other optimizations, did anyone think of putting=20
information into the stream that could help its caching, or even prohibit=
=20
its caching, etc.,, increase its caching probability for example, by=20
informing its popularity level? may be even at the chunk level, etc...

In other words, we could see a P2P stream as not only a passive data=20
stream but one that carries important and relevant information on how the=
=20
P2P system may best handle it.

Djamel


On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing) wrote:

> IMO, ALTO is the best way to do any optimized peer selection. It has defi=
ned a method for P2P tracker to communicate with ALTO server as an ALTO cli=
ent. The logical functionalities of PPSP and ALTO should be separated clear=
ly,while they can work together very well. If there is any PPSP specific re=
quirement for stream optimization, we can propose it to ALTO WG to solve.
>
>
> Br
> Lin
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of e=
xt zhangyunfei
> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:04 AM
> To: Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok
> Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
>
>
> I agree with Volker's opinion on this.There may be some optional fields i=
n PPSP messages to fetch ISP or other geographical/regional inforamation fo=
r localizaiton.But the optimization operation can be envisioned to be done =
by ALTO.
> In this case there may exist some extension requirements for ALTO to deal=
 with more kinds of messages to realize traffic optimization.
>
> BR
> Yunfei
>
> ________________________________
>
> zhangyunfei
> 2010-04-07
> ________________________________
>
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Volker Hilt
> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-04-06 21:13:17
> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Djamel Sadok
> =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org
> =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
>
> Yes,  I  believe  that  to  the  extend  it  impacts  the  structure/prot=
ocol  of
> the  streaming  application  localization  should  be  considered  in  PP=
SP.
> There  is  obviously  a  tie  into  ALTO  as  well  for  the  exchange  o=
f
> localization  information.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Volker
>
>
>
> Djamel  Sadok  wrote:
>>  I  think  that  whether  the  ISP-friendliness  issue  should  become  =
or  not  part  of
>>  the  P2P  streaming  protocol  depends  mainly  on  the  way  was  such=
  optimization  is
>>  achieved.
>>
>>  IF  one  can  structure  "intelligently"  the  streaming  to  facilitat=
e  its
>>  optimization  then  there  is  a  clear  need  to  consider  such  opti=
mization  as  part
>>  of  this  work.
>>
>>  Djamel
>>
>>
>>  On  Tue,  06  Apr  2010  18:55:26  +0800,  Y.J.  Gu  wrote
>>>  Hi  Reza,
>>>  I'm  really  interested  in  the  issues  and  would  be  glad  to  le=
arn  the  details.
>>>  Except  for  P2P  caching,  ALTO  and  DECADE  may  also  help  in  P2=
P
>>>  streaming  optimization,  though  in  different  ways.  PPSP  will  in=
teract
>>>  with  the  work  performed  in  other  IETF  WGs,  e.g.  P2PSIP,  ALTO=
  and
>>>  DECADE.  Since  P2P  streaming  optimization  (or  say  ISP  friendly)=
  is
>>>  not  a  special  problem  for  P2P  streaming,  instead  it's  a  comm=
on  issue
>>>  to  be  considered  in  P2P  application,  I  don't  think  it  will  =
be  in  the
>>>  scope  of  PPSP.
>>>
>>>  Regards
>>>
>>>  Yingjie  Gu
>>>
>>>>  -----Original  Message-----
>>>>  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On
>>>>  Behalf  Of  Reza  Rejaie
>>>>  Sent:  Tuesday,  April  06,  2010  4:17  PM
>>>>  To:  ppsp@ietf.org
>>>>  Subject:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  I  was  wondering  whether  there  has  been  any  discussion  (or  a=
ny
>>>>  interest)  in  this  working  group  on  issues  related  to  making
>>>>  P2P  streaming  application  (especially  live  streaming)  ISP
>>>>  friendly?  Here  by  "ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming"  I  am  referring
>>>>  to  those  mechanisms  that  try  minimize  the  external  traffic
>>>>  for  individual  ISPs
>>>>
>>>>  We  have  developed  a  couple  of  mesh-based  ISP-friendly  P2P
>>>>  streaming  mechanisms  and  would  be  happy  to  provide  more
>>>>  details  if  there  is  inetrest.
>>>>
>>>>  reza
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  ppsp  mailing  list
>>>>  ppsp@ietf.org
>>>>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  ppsp  mailing  list
>>>  ppsp@ietf.org
>>>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  GPRT  -  Grupo  de  Pesquisa  em  Redes  de  Computadores  e  Telecomun=
icacoes
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  ppsp  mailing  list
>>  ppsp@ietf.org
>>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp  mailing  list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
---1583955776-906631604-1270634737=:1797--

From reza@cs.uoregon.edu  Wed Apr  7 03:39:46 2010
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Thanks for the emails and suggestions. I am addressing a group of emails 
here.

- ISP-friendliness for *live* video can not be addressed by caching
due to the live nature of content.

- achieving isp-friendliness for live content is much more challenging than
for elastic content.

- There are different ways to achieve ISP-friendliness, either by
changing overlay connectivity or by changing packet scheduling.
Different approaches have different limitations on how much
reduction in traffic they can achieve.

Simple ideas (such as requiring each peer to establosh x% of connection
with other peers within the same ISP) would not be effective especially
for large ISPs where

One key point is that simply making the overlay localized within
each ISP does NOT work. If the overlay is too localized, existing 
scheduling schemes can not provide good quality. However, if overlay is 
not adequately localized, external traffic can not be effectively limited.

So ISP-friendliness can not be achieved (at least effectively) by good 
neighbor selection mechanism. Changes in packet scheduling is needed, and
those changes require coordination/siganling among peers and ISPs which
is something that can be of interest in this WG.

I can provide more details on these issues if there is interest.

reza

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing) wrote:

> IMO, ALTO is the best way to do any optimized peer selection. It has defined
> a method for P2P tracker to communicate with ALTO server as an ALTO client.
> The logical functionalities of PPSP and ALTO should be separated
> clearly,while they can work together very well. If there is any PPSP
> specific requirement for stream optimization, we can propose it to ALTO WG
> to solve.
>  
>  
> Br
> Lin
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext
> zhangyunfei
> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:04 AM
> To: Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok
> Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> 
> I agree with Volker's opinion on this.There may be some optional fields in
> PPSP messages to fetch ISP or other geographical/regional inforamation for
> localizaiton.But the optimization operation can be envisioned to be done by
> ALTO.
> In this case there may exist some extension requirements for ALTO to deal
> with more kinds of messages to realize traffic optimization.
>  
> BR
> Yunfei
>  
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> zhangyunfei
> 2010-04-07
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> 发件人： Volker Hilt
> 发送时间： 2010-04-06 21:13:17
> 收件人： Djamel Sadok
> 抄送： ppsp@ietf.org
> 主题： Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
>  
> Yes,  I  believe  that  to  the  extend  it  impacts  the
>  structure/protocol  of  
> the  streaming  application  localization  should  be  considered  in  PPSP.
>  
> There  is  obviously  a  tie  into  ALTO  as  well  for  the  exchange  of  
> localization  information.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Volker
>  
>  
>  
> Djamel  Sadok  wrote:
> >  I  think  that  whether  the  ISP-friendliness  issue  should  become  or
>  not  part  of
> >  the  P2P  streaming  protocol  depends  mainly  on  the  way  was  such
>  optimization  is
> >  achieved.
> >  
> >  IF  one  can  structure  "intelligently"  the  streaming  to  facilitate
>  its
> >  optimization  then  there  is  a  clear  need  to  consider  such
>  optimization  as  part
> >  of  this  work.
> >  
> >  Djamel
> >  
> >  
> >  On  Tue,  06  Apr  2010  18:55:26  +0800,  Y.J.  Gu  wrote
> > >  Hi  Reza,
> > >  I'm  really  interested  in  the  issues  and  would  be  glad  to
>  learn  the  details.
> > >  Except  for  P2P  caching,  ALTO  and  DECADE  may  also  help  in  P2P
>  
> > >  streaming  optimization,  though  in  different  ways.  PPSP  will
>  interact  
> > >  with  the  work  performed  in  other  IETF  WGs,  e.g.  P2PSIP,  ALTO
>  and  
> > >  DECADE.  Since  P2P  streaming  optimization  (or  say  ISP  friendly)
>  is  
> > >  not  a  special  problem  for  P2P  streaming,  instead  it's  a
>  common  issue  
> > >  to  be  considered  in  P2P  application,  I  don't  think  it  will
>  be  in  the  
> > >  scope  of  PPSP.
> > >
> > >  Regards
> > >
> > >  Yingjie  Gu
> > >
> > > >  -----Original  Message-----
> > > >  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On  
> > > >  Behalf  Of  Reza  Rejaie
> > > >  Sent:  Tuesday,  April  06,  2010  4:17  PM
> > > >  To:  ppsp@ietf.org
> > > >  Subject:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  Hi,
> > > >
> > > >  I  was  wondering  whether  there  has  been  any  discussion  (or
>  any  
> > > >  interest)  in  this  working  group  on  issues  related  to  making
>  
> > > >  P2P  streaming  application  (especially  live  streaming)  ISP  
> > > >  friendly?  Here  by  "ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming"  I  am  referring
>  
> > > >  to  those  mechanisms  that  try  minimize  the  external  traffic  
> > > >  for  individual  ISPs
> > > >
> > > >  We  have  developed  a  couple  of  mesh-based  ISP-friendly  P2P  
> > > >  streaming  mechanisms  and  would  be  happy  to  provide  more  
> > > >  details  if  there  is  inetrest.
> > > >
> > > >  reza
> > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > >  ppsp  mailing  list
> > > >  ppsp@ietf.org
> > > >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  ppsp  mailing  list
> > >  ppsp@ietf.org
> > >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >  
> >  
> >  --
> >  GPRT  -  Grupo  de  Pesquisa  em  Redes  de  Computadores  e
>  Telecomunicacoes
> >  
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  ppsp  mailing  list
> >  ppsp@ietf.org
> >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>  
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp  mailing  list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> 
>
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Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:45:31 +0800
From: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <201004080940550786488@chinamobile.com>
To: 'zhangyunfei' <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, 'Reza Rejaie' <reza@cs.uoregon.edu>, "'Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)'" <lin.xiao@nsn.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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Agree, the scheduling operation is not in scope,  the optional
ISP-friendliness fields in the PPSP Protocol is in the scope if the
mechanism can help ISP-friendliness.
I'm interested too, as I've said.
FYI, PPlive has a mechanism of chunk scheduling from P2P application
performance perspective.=20
1) Consecutive chunk first, i.e. download the nearest chunk to what is
playing.
2) Rarest first, downloading the rarest chunk in the system, which may =
need
a statistic information from a Tracker.
3) anchor first, to guarantee quick channel swich. An anchor chunk can =
be
learn from description file.
=20
When you mention packet scheduling, do you mean the mechanism like the =
above
ones?=20
=20
=20
=20

Regards

Yingjie Gu

=20


  _____ =20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
zhangyunfei
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:41 AM
To: Reza Rejaie; Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming


Reza and Djamel's proposals sound interesting.The information assisting =
in
chunk cache and selection(e.g.,scheduling)to achieve ISP-friendly P2P
streaming seems interesting for PPSP although the scheduling opertion is =
out
of scope.
I'd like to hear more details on the fields of such informations.
=20
BR
Yunfei
=20

  _____ =20

zhangyunfei
2010-04-08

  _____ =20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Reza Rejaie
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-04-07 18:57:17
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ext zhangyunfei; Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok; =
ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
=20

Thanks  for  the  emails  and  suggestions.  I  am  addressing  a  group =
 of
emails =20
here.
=20
-  ISP-friendliness  for  *live*  video  can  not  be  addressed  by
caching
due  to  the  live  nature  of  content.
=20
-  achieving  isp-friendliness  for  live  content  is  much  more
challenging  than
for  elastic  content.
=20
-  There  are  different  ways  to  achieve  ISP-friendliness,  either  =
by
changing  overlay  connectivity  or  by  changing  packet  scheduling.
Different  approaches  have  different  limitations  on  how  much
reduction  in  traffic  they  can  achieve.
=20
Simple  ideas  (such  as  requiring  each  peer  to  establosh  x%  of
connection
with  other  peers  within  the  same  ISP)  would  not  be  effective
especially
for  large  ISPs  where
=20
One  key  point  is  that  simply  making  the  overlay  localized  =
within
each  ISP  does  NOT  work.  If  the  overlay  is  too  localized,  =
existing

scheduling  schemes  can  not  provide  good  quality.  However,  if
overlay  is =20
not  adequately  localized,  external  traffic  can  not  be  =
effectively
limited.
=20
So  ISP-friendliness  can  not  be  achieved  (at  least  effectively)  =
by
good =20
neighbor  selection  mechanism.  Changes  in  packet  scheduling  is
needed,  and
those  changes  require  coordination/siganling  among  peers  and  ISPs
which
is  something  that  can  be  of  interest  in  this  WG.
=20
I  can  provide  more  details  on  these  issues  if  there  is  =
interest.
=20
reza
=20
On  Wed,  7  Apr  2010,  Xiao,  Lin  (NSN  -  CN/Beijing)  wrote:
=20
>  IMO,  ALTO  is  the  best  way  to  do  any  optimized  peer  =
selection.
It  has  defined
>  a  method  for  P2P  tracker  to communicate  with  ALTO  server  as  =
an
ALTO  client.
>  The  logical  functionalities of  PPSP  and  ALTO  should  be =
separated
>  clearly,while they can  work  together  very  well. If  there  is  =
any
PPSP
>  specific  requirement  for  stream  optimization,  we  can  propose  =
it
to  ALTO  WG
>  to  solve.
>  =20
>  =20
>  Br
>  Lin
> =20
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
>  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On  =
Behalf
Of  ext
>  zhangyunfei
>  Sent:  Wednesday,  April  07,  2010  10:04  AM
>  To:  Volker  Hilt;  Djamel  Sadok
>  Cc:  ppsp@ietf.org
>  Subject:  Re:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
> =20
>  I  agree  with  Volker's  opinion  on  this.There  may  be  some
optional  fields  in
>  PPSP  messages  to  fetch  ISP  or  other  geographical/regional
inforamation  for
>  localizaiton.But  the  optimization  operation  can  be  envisioned  =
to
be  done  by
>  ALTO.
>  In  this  case there  may  exist  some  extension  requirements  for
ALTO  to  deal
>  with  more  kinds  of  messages  to  realize  traffic  optimization.
>  =20
>  BR
>  Yunfei
>  =20
> =20
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
>  zhangyunfei
>  2010-04-07
> =20
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
>  =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA  Volker  Hilt
>  =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA  2010-04-06 21:13:17
>  =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA  Djamel  Sadok
>  =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA  ppsp@ietf.org
>  =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA  Re:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
>  =20
>  Yes,   I   believe   that   to   the   extend   it   impacts   the
>   structure/protocol   of  =20
>  the   streaming   application   localization   should   be   =
considered
in   PPSP.
>  =20
>  There   is   obviously   a   tie   into   ALTO   as   well   for   =
the
exchange   of  =20
>  localization   information.
>  =20
>  Thanks,
>  =20
>  Volker
>  =20
>  =20
>  =20
>  Djamel   Sadok   wrote:
>   >   I   think   that   whether   the   ISP-friendliness   issue   =
should
become   or
>   not   part   of
>   >   the   P2P   streaming   protocol   depends   mainly   on   the   =
way
was   such
>   optimization   is
>   >   achieved.
>   >  =20
>   >   IF   one   can   structure   "intelligently"   the   streaming   =
to
facilitate
>   its
>   >   optimization   then   there   is   a   clear   need   to   =
consider
such
>   optimization   as   part
>   >   of   this   work.
>   >  =20
>   >   Djamel
>   >  =20
>   >  =20
>   >   On   Tue,   06   Apr   2010   18:55:26   +0800,   Y.J.   Gu   =
wrote
>   >   >   Hi   Reza,
>   >   >   I'm   really   interested   in   the   issues   and   would  =
 be
glad   to
>   learn   the   details.
>   >   >   Except   for   P2P   caching,   ALTO   and   DECADE   may   =
also
help   in   P2P
>  =20
>   >   >   streaming   optimization,   though   in   different   ways.
PPSP   will
>   interact  =20
>   >   >   with   the   work   performed   in   other   IETF   WGs,   =
e.g.
P2PSIP,   ALTO
>   and  =20
>   >   >   DECADE.   Since   P2P   streaming   optimization   (or   say
ISP   friendly)
>   is  =20
>   >   >   not   a   special   problem   for   P2P   streaming,   =
instead
it's   a
>   common   issue  =20
>   >   >   to   be   considered   in   P2P   application,   I   don't
think   it   will
>   be   in   the  =20
>   >   >   scope   of   PPSP.
>   >   >
>   >   >   Regards
>   >   >
>   >   >   Yingjie   Gu
>   >   >
>   >   >   >   -----Original   Message-----
>   >   >   >   From:   ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]   On  =20
>   >   >   >   Behalf   Of   Reza   Rejaie
>   >   >   >   Sent:   Tuesday,   April   06,   2010   4:17   PM
>   >   >   >   To:   ppsp@ietf.org
>   >   >   >   Subject:   [ppsp]   ISP-friendly   P2P   streaming
>   >   >   >
>   >   >   >
>   >   >   >   Hi,
>   >   >   >
>   >   >   >   I   was   wondering   whether   there   has   been   any
discussion   (or
>   any  =20
>   >   >   >   interest)   in   this   working   group   on   issues
related   to   making
>  =20
>   >   >   >   P2P   streaming   application   (especially   live
streaming)   ISP  =20
>   >   >   >   friendly?   Here   by   "ISP-friendly   P2P   streaming" =
  I
am   referring
>  =20
>   >   >   >   to   those   mechanisms   that   try   minimize   the
external   traffic  =20
>   >   >   >   for   individual   ISPs
>   >   >   >
>   >   >   >   We   have   developed   a   couple   of   mesh-based
ISP-friendly   P2P  =20
>   >   >   >   streaming   mechanisms   and   would   be   happy   to
provide   more  =20
>   >   >   >   details   if   there   is   inetrest.
>   >   >   >
>   >   >   >   reza
>   >   >   >   _______________________________________________
>   >   >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
>   >   >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
>   >   >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>   >   >   _______________________________________________
>   >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
>   >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
>   >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>   >  =20
>   >  =20
>   >   --
>   >   GPRT   -   Grupo   de   Pesquisa   em   Redes   de   =
Computadores
e
>   Telecomunicacoes
>   >  =20
>   >   _______________________________________________
>   >   ppsp   mailing   list
>   >   ppsp@ietf.org
>   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>  =20
>  _______________________________________________
>  ppsp   mailing   list
>  ppsp@ietf.org
>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> =20
>


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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>Agree, the scheduling =
operation is=20
not in scope,&nbsp; the optional ISP-friendliness fields in the PPSP =
Protocol is=20
in the scope if the mechanism can help =
ISP-friendliness.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>I'm interested too, as =
I've=20
said.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>FYI, PPlive has a =
mechanism of chunk=20
scheduling from P2P application performance=20
perspective.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>1) Consecutive chunk =
first, i.e.=20
download the&nbsp;nearest chunk to what is playing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>2) Rarest first, =
downloading the=20
rarest chunk in the system, which may need a statistic information from =
a=20
Tracker.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>3) anchor first, to =
guarantee quick=20
channel swich. An anchor chunk can be learn from description=20
file.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>When you mention =
packet scheduling,=20
do you mean the mechanism like the above ones? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D035473003-08042010><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>
<P class=3DMsoSalutation style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" =
align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =
mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; =
mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT=20
size=3D4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT=20
size=3D4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-cn dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>zhangyunfei<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:41 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Reza Rejaie; Xiao, Lin =
(NSN -=20
  CN/Beijing)<BR><B>Cc:</B> ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ppsp]=20
  ISP-friendly P2P streaming<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Reza and Djamel's =
proposals sound=20
  interesting.The information assisting in chunk cache and=20
  selection(e.g.,scheduling)to achieve ISP-friendly P2P streaming seems=20
  interesting for PPSP although the scheduling opertion is out of=20
  scope.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'd like to hear =
more details on=20
  the fields of such informations.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>BR</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
  <HR style=3D"WIDTH: 122px; HEIGHT: 2px" SIZE=3D2>
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#c0c0c0><FONT face=3DVerdana =
size=3D2>zhangyunfei</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana =
size=3D2>2010-04-08</FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
  <HR>
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</STRONG> Reza=20
  Rejaie</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA</STRONG>=20
  2010-04-07&nbsp;18:57:17</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</STRONG> Xiao, Lin (NSN -=20
  CN/Beijing)</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</STRONG> ext zhangyunfei;=20
  Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok; ppsp@ietf.org</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA</STRONG> Re: [ppsp]=20
  ISP-friendly P2P streaming</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
  <DIV>Thanks &nbsp;for &nbsp;the &nbsp;emails &nbsp;and =
&nbsp;suggestions.=20
  &nbsp;I &nbsp;am &nbsp;addressing &nbsp;a &nbsp;group &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;emails=20
  &nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>here.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>- &nbsp;ISP-friendliness &nbsp;for &nbsp;*live* &nbsp;video =
&nbsp;can=20
  &nbsp;not &nbsp;be &nbsp;addressed &nbsp;by &nbsp;caching</DIV>
  <DIV>due &nbsp;to &nbsp;the &nbsp;live &nbsp;nature &nbsp;of=20
  &nbsp;content.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>- &nbsp;achieving &nbsp;isp-friendliness &nbsp;for &nbsp;live=20
  &nbsp;content &nbsp;is &nbsp;much &nbsp;more &nbsp;challenging=20
&nbsp;than</DIV>
  <DIV>for &nbsp;elastic &nbsp;content.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>- &nbsp;There &nbsp;are &nbsp;different &nbsp;ways &nbsp;to =
&nbsp;achieve=20
  &nbsp;ISP-friendliness, &nbsp;either &nbsp;by</DIV>
  <DIV>changing &nbsp;overlay &nbsp;connectivity &nbsp;or &nbsp;by=20
  &nbsp;changing &nbsp;packet &nbsp;scheduling.</DIV>
  <DIV>Different &nbsp;approaches &nbsp;have &nbsp;different =
&nbsp;limitations=20
  &nbsp;on &nbsp;how &nbsp;much</DIV>
  <DIV>reduction &nbsp;in &nbsp;traffic &nbsp;they &nbsp;can=20
&nbsp;achieve.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Simple &nbsp;ideas &nbsp;(such &nbsp;as &nbsp;requiring =
&nbsp;each=20
  &nbsp;peer &nbsp;to &nbsp;establosh &nbsp;x% &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;connection</DIV>
  <DIV>with &nbsp;other &nbsp;peers &nbsp;within &nbsp;the &nbsp;same =
&nbsp;ISP)=20
  &nbsp;would &nbsp;not &nbsp;be &nbsp;effective &nbsp;especially</DIV>
  <DIV>for &nbsp;large &nbsp;ISPs &nbsp;where</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>One &nbsp;key &nbsp;point &nbsp;is &nbsp;that &nbsp;simply =
&nbsp;making=20
  &nbsp;the &nbsp;overlay &nbsp;localized &nbsp;within</DIV>
  <DIV>each &nbsp;ISP &nbsp;does &nbsp;NOT &nbsp;work. &nbsp;If =
&nbsp;the=20
  &nbsp;overlay &nbsp;is &nbsp;too &nbsp;localized, &nbsp;existing =
&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>scheduling &nbsp;schemes &nbsp;can &nbsp;not &nbsp;provide =
&nbsp;good=20
  &nbsp;quality. &nbsp;However, &nbsp;if &nbsp;overlay &nbsp;is =
&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>not &nbsp;adequately &nbsp;localized, &nbsp;external =
&nbsp;traffic=20
  &nbsp;can &nbsp;not &nbsp;be &nbsp;effectively &nbsp;limited.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>So &nbsp;ISP-friendliness &nbsp;can &nbsp;not &nbsp;be =
&nbsp;achieved=20
  &nbsp;(at &nbsp;least &nbsp;effectively) &nbsp;by &nbsp;good =
&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>neighbor &nbsp;selection &nbsp;mechanism. &nbsp;Changes &nbsp;in=20
  &nbsp;packet &nbsp;scheduling &nbsp;is &nbsp;needed, &nbsp;and</DIV>
  <DIV>those &nbsp;changes &nbsp;require &nbsp;coordination/siganling=20
  &nbsp;among &nbsp;peers &nbsp;and &nbsp;ISPs &nbsp;which</DIV>
  <DIV>is &nbsp;something &nbsp;that &nbsp;can &nbsp;be &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;interest=20
  &nbsp;in &nbsp;this &nbsp;WG.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I &nbsp;can &nbsp;provide &nbsp;more &nbsp;details &nbsp;on =
&nbsp;these=20
  &nbsp;issues &nbsp;if &nbsp;there &nbsp;is &nbsp;interest.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>reza</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>On &nbsp;Wed, &nbsp;7 &nbsp;Apr &nbsp;2010, &nbsp;Xiao, &nbsp;Lin =

  &nbsp;(NSN &nbsp;- &nbsp;CN/Beijing) &nbsp;wrote:</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;IMO, &nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;is &nbsp;the &nbsp;best =
&nbsp;way=20
  &nbsp;to &nbsp;do &nbsp;any &nbsp;optimized &nbsp;peer =
&nbsp;selection.=20
  &nbsp;It &nbsp;has &nbsp;defined</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;a &nbsp;method &nbsp;for &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;tracker=20
  &nbsp;to&nbsp;communicate &nbsp;with &nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;server &nbsp;as =
&nbsp;an=20
  &nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;client.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;The &nbsp;logical &nbsp;functionalities&nbsp;of =
&nbsp;PPSP=20
  &nbsp;and &nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;should &nbsp;be&nbsp;separated</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;clearly,while&nbsp;they&nbsp;can &nbsp;work =
&nbsp;together=20
  &nbsp;very &nbsp;well.&nbsp;If &nbsp;there &nbsp;is &nbsp;any =
&nbsp;PPSP</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;specific &nbsp;requirement &nbsp;for &nbsp;stream=20
  &nbsp;optimization, &nbsp;we &nbsp;can &nbsp;propose &nbsp;it &nbsp;to =

  &nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;WG</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;to &nbsp;solve.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Br</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Lin</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt;=20
  =
&nbsp;___________________________________________________________________=
_________</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;From: &nbsp;ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  &nbsp;[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] &nbsp;On &nbsp;Behalf &nbsp;Of=20
  &nbsp;ext</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;zhangyunfei</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Sent: &nbsp;Wednesday, &nbsp;April &nbsp;07, =
&nbsp;2010=20
  &nbsp;10:04 &nbsp;AM</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;To: &nbsp;Volker &nbsp;Hilt; &nbsp;Djamel =
&nbsp;Sadok</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Cc: &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Subject: &nbsp;Re: &nbsp;[ppsp] &nbsp;ISP-friendly =
&nbsp;P2P=20
  &nbsp;streaming</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;I &nbsp;agree &nbsp;with &nbsp;Volker's &nbsp;opinion =
&nbsp;on=20
  &nbsp;this.There &nbsp;may &nbsp;be &nbsp;some &nbsp;optional =
&nbsp;fields=20
  &nbsp;in</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;PPSP &nbsp;messages &nbsp;to &nbsp;fetch &nbsp;ISP =
&nbsp;or=20
  &nbsp;other &nbsp;geographical/regional &nbsp;inforamation =
&nbsp;for</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;localizaiton.But &nbsp;the &nbsp;optimization =
&nbsp;operation=20
  &nbsp;can &nbsp;be &nbsp;envisioned &nbsp;to &nbsp;be &nbsp;done=20
&nbsp;by</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;ALTO.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;In &nbsp;this &nbsp;case&nbsp;there &nbsp;may =
&nbsp;exist=20
  &nbsp;some &nbsp;extension &nbsp;requirements &nbsp;for &nbsp;ALTO =
&nbsp;to=20
  &nbsp;deal</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;with &nbsp;more &nbsp;kinds &nbsp;of &nbsp;messages =
&nbsp;to=20
  &nbsp;realize &nbsp;traffic &nbsp;optimization.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;BR</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Yunfei</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt;=20
  =
&nbsp;___________________________________________________________________=
_________</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;zhangyunfei</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;2010-04-07</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt;=20
  =
&nbsp;___________________________________________________________________=
_________</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA &nbsp;Volker &nbsp;Hilt</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA =
&nbsp;2010-04-06&nbsp;21:13:17</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA &nbsp;Djamel =
&nbsp;Sadok</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA &nbsp;Re: &nbsp;[ppsp] =
&nbsp;ISP-friendly &nbsp;P2P=20
  &nbsp;streaming</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Yes, &nbsp;&nbsp;I &nbsp;&nbsp;believe =
&nbsp;&nbsp;that=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;to &nbsp;&nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;extend &nbsp;&nbsp;it=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;impacts &nbsp;&nbsp;the</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;structure/protocol &nbsp;&nbsp;of =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming &nbsp;&nbsp;application=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;localization &nbsp;&nbsp;should &nbsp;&nbsp;be=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;considered &nbsp;&nbsp;in &nbsp;&nbsp;PPSP.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;There &nbsp;&nbsp;is &nbsp;&nbsp;obviously =
&nbsp;&nbsp;a=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;tie &nbsp;&nbsp;into &nbsp;&nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;&nbsp;as=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;well &nbsp;&nbsp;for &nbsp;&nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;exchange=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;of &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;localization &nbsp;&nbsp;information.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Thanks,</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Volker</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;Djamel &nbsp;&nbsp;Sadok &nbsp;&nbsp;wrote:</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;I &nbsp;&nbsp;think &nbsp;&nbsp;that =

  &nbsp;&nbsp;whether &nbsp;&nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;ISP-friendliness=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;issue &nbsp;&nbsp;should &nbsp;&nbsp;become =
&nbsp;&nbsp;or</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;not &nbsp;&nbsp;part &nbsp;&nbsp;of</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P =
&nbsp;&nbsp;streaming=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;protocol &nbsp;&nbsp;depends &nbsp;&nbsp;mainly =
&nbsp;&nbsp;on=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;way &nbsp;&nbsp;was &nbsp;&nbsp;such</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;optimization &nbsp;&nbsp;is</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;achieved.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;IF &nbsp;&nbsp;one &nbsp;&nbsp;can=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;structure &nbsp;&nbsp;"intelligently" &nbsp;&nbsp;the=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming &nbsp;&nbsp;to &nbsp;&nbsp;facilitate</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;its</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;optimization &nbsp;&nbsp;then=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;there &nbsp;&nbsp;is &nbsp;&nbsp;a &nbsp;&nbsp;clear=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;need &nbsp;&nbsp;to &nbsp;&nbsp;consider =
&nbsp;&nbsp;such</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;optimization &nbsp;&nbsp;as =
&nbsp;&nbsp;part</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;of &nbsp;&nbsp;this =
&nbsp;&nbsp;work.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Djamel</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;On &nbsp;&nbsp;Tue, &nbsp;&nbsp;06=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;Apr &nbsp;&nbsp;2010 &nbsp;&nbsp;18:55:26 =
&nbsp;&nbsp;+0800,=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;Y.J. &nbsp;&nbsp;Gu &nbsp;&nbsp;wrote</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Hi =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Reza,</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;I'm &nbsp;&nbsp;really=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;interested &nbsp;&nbsp;in &nbsp;&nbsp;the =
&nbsp;&nbsp;issues=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;and &nbsp;&nbsp;would &nbsp;&nbsp;be &nbsp;&nbsp;glad=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;to</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;learn &nbsp;&nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;details.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Except &nbsp;&nbsp;for=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P &nbsp;&nbsp;caching, &nbsp;&nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;&nbsp;and=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;DECADE &nbsp;&nbsp;may &nbsp;&nbsp;also &nbsp;&nbsp;help=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;in &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;optimization, &nbsp;&nbsp;though &nbsp;&nbsp;in=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;different &nbsp;&nbsp;ways. &nbsp;&nbsp;PPSP=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;will</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;interact &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;with &nbsp;&nbsp;the=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;work &nbsp;&nbsp;performed &nbsp;&nbsp;in =
&nbsp;&nbsp;other=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;IETF &nbsp;&nbsp;WGs, &nbsp;&nbsp;e.g. &nbsp;&nbsp;P2PSIP, =

  &nbsp;&nbsp;ALTO</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;and &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;DECADE. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Since=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming &nbsp;&nbsp;optimization =
&nbsp;&nbsp;(or=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;say &nbsp;&nbsp;ISP &nbsp;&nbsp;friendly)</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;is &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;not &nbsp;&nbsp;a=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;special &nbsp;&nbsp;problem &nbsp;&nbsp;for =
&nbsp;&nbsp;P2P=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming, &nbsp;&nbsp;instead &nbsp;&nbsp;it's=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;a</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;common &nbsp;&nbsp;issue &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;to &nbsp;&nbsp;be=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;considered &nbsp;&nbsp;in &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P =
&nbsp;&nbsp;application,=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;I &nbsp;&nbsp;don't &nbsp;&nbsp;think &nbsp;&nbsp;it=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;will</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;be &nbsp;&nbsp;in &nbsp;&nbsp;the =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;scope &nbsp;&nbsp;of=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;PPSP.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Regards</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Yingjie =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Gu</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;-----Original=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;Message-----</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;From:=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =
&nbsp;&nbsp;[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;On &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Behalf=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;Of &nbsp;&nbsp;Reza &nbsp;&nbsp;Rejaie</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Sent:=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;Tuesday, &nbsp;&nbsp;April &nbsp;&nbsp;06, =
&nbsp;&nbsp;2010=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;4:17 &nbsp;&nbsp;PM</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;To:=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Subject:=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;[ppsp] &nbsp;&nbsp;ISP-friendly &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;Hi,</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;I =
&nbsp;&nbsp;was=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;wondering &nbsp;&nbsp;whether &nbsp;&nbsp;there =
&nbsp;&nbsp;has=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;been &nbsp;&nbsp;any &nbsp;&nbsp;discussion =
&nbsp;&nbsp;(or</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;any &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;interest)=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;in &nbsp;&nbsp;this &nbsp;&nbsp;working &nbsp;&nbsp;group=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;on &nbsp;&nbsp;issues &nbsp;&nbsp;related &nbsp;&nbsp;to=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;making</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming &nbsp;&nbsp;application &nbsp;&nbsp;(especially=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;live &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming) &nbsp;&nbsp;ISP =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;friendly?=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;Here &nbsp;&nbsp;by &nbsp;&nbsp;"ISP-friendly =
&nbsp;&nbsp;P2P=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming" &nbsp;&nbsp;I &nbsp;&nbsp;am=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;referring</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;to =
&nbsp;&nbsp;those=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;mechanisms &nbsp;&nbsp;that &nbsp;&nbsp;try =
&nbsp;&nbsp;minimize=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;the &nbsp;&nbsp;external &nbsp;&nbsp;traffic =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;for=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;individual &nbsp;&nbsp;ISPs</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;We =
&nbsp;&nbsp;have=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;developed &nbsp;&nbsp;a &nbsp;&nbsp;couple &nbsp;&nbsp;of=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;mesh-based &nbsp;&nbsp;ISP-friendly &nbsp;&nbsp;P2P=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;streaming=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;mechanisms &nbsp;&nbsp;and &nbsp;&nbsp;would =
&nbsp;&nbsp;be=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;happy &nbsp;&nbsp;to &nbsp;&nbsp;provide &nbsp;&nbsp;more=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;details=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;if &nbsp;&nbsp;there &nbsp;&nbsp;is =
&nbsp;&nbsp;inetrest.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;reza</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;_______________________________________________</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;ppsp=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;mailing &nbsp;&nbsp;list</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;_______________________________________________</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;ppsp &nbsp;&nbsp;mailing =

  &nbsp;&nbsp;list</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &gt;=20
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From: "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)" <lin.xiao@nsn.com>
To: "ext Reza Rejaie" <reza@cs.uoregon.edu>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2010 05:56:52.0513 (UTC) FILETIME=[4959F110:01CAD6E0]
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
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Hi all,
   All the slides prepared for IETF77 have been uploaded to IETF website.Please visit https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/77/materials.html for downloading.Thanks.


BR
Yunfei




zhangyunfei
2010-04-08

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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Hi all,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; All the slides prepared for 
IETF77 have been uploaded to IETF website.Please visit <A 
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/77/materials.html">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/77/materials.html</A>&nbsp;for 
downloading.Thanks.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>BR</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT color=#c0c0c0><FONT size=2>zhangyunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>2010-04-08</FONT></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Hi all,
   We have uploaded the draft minutes in the following URL: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/ppsp.html.
    Please review it and if there are any suggestions or corrections on 
the minutes, please let Cullen and me know by April 20,2010.Thanks.

BR
Yunfei




zhangyunfei
2010-04-08

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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; We have uploaded the draft minutes 
in the following URL: </FONT><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2><A 
href="http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/ppsp.html">http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/ppsp.html</A>.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please review it and if 
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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>the minutes, please let Cullen and me know 
by April 20,2010.Thanks.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>BR</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
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From reza@cs.uoregon.edu  Thu Apr  8 02:34:01 2010
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From: Reza Rejaie <reza@cs.uoregon.edu>
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On Thu, 8 Apr 2010, Y.J. Gu wrote:

> Agree, the scheduling operation is not in scope,  the optional ISP-friendliness fields in the
> PPSP Protocol is in the scope if the mechanism can help ISP-friendliness.
> I'm interested too, as I've said.
> FYI, PPlive has a mechanism of chunk scheduling from P2P application performance perspective. 
> 1) Consecutive chunk first, i.e. download the nearest chunk to what is playing.
> 2) Rarest first, downloading the rarest chunk in the system, which may need a statistic
> information from a Tracker.
> 3) anchor first, to guarantee quick channel swich. An anchor chunk can be learn from description
> file.
>  
> When you mention packet scheduling, do you mean the mechanism like the above ones?
>  
yes, by scheduling I am reffering to the decision of which 
block/segment/packet to pll from each parent/neighbor

As for references, we have papers that are currently under submission, so it 
may not be appropriate to share them with the entire group at this point.

One of my collaborators or I should be able to present the problem, 
proposde solutions and its relevance to ietf at the next ieft meeting in 
July.

thanks,
reza
>  
>  
> 
> Regards
> 
> Yingjie Gu
> 
>  
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:41 AM
> To: Reza Rejaie; Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)
> Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> 
> Reza and Djamel's proposals sound interesting.The information assisting in chunk cache and
> selection(e.g.,scheduling)to achieve ISP-friendly P2P streaming seems interesting for PPSP
> although the scheduling opertion is out of scope.
> I'd like to hear more details on the fields of such informations.
>  
> BR
> Yunfei
>  
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________
> zhangyunfei
> 2010-04-08
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 发件人： Reza Rejaie
> 发送时间： 2010-04-07 18:57:17
> 收件人： Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)
> 抄送： ext zhangyunfei; Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok; ppsp@ietf.org
> 主题： Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
>  
> Thanks  for  the  emails  and  suggestions.  I  am  addressing  a  group  of  emails  
> here.
>  
> -  ISP-friendliness  for  *live*  video  can  not  be  addressed  by  caching
> due  to  the  live  nature  of  content.
>  
> -  achieving  isp-friendliness  for  live  content  is  much  more  challenging  than
> for  elastic  content.
>  
> -  There  are  different  ways  to  achieve  ISP-friendliness,  either  by
> changing  overlay  connectivity  or  by  changing  packet  scheduling.
> Different  approaches  have  different  limitations  on  how  much
> reduction  in  traffic  they  can  achieve.
>  
> Simple  ideas  (such  as  requiring  each  peer  to  establosh  x%  of  connection
> with  other  peers  within  the  same  ISP)  would  not  be  effective  especially
> for  large  ISPs  where
>  
> One  key  point  is  that  simply  making  the  overlay  localized  within
> each  ISP  does  NOT  work.  If  the  overlay  is  too  localized,  existing  
> scheduling  schemes  can  not  provide  good  quality.  However,  if  overlay  is  
> not  adequately  localized,  external  traffic  can  not  be  effectively  limited.
>  
> So  ISP-friendliness  can  not  be  achieved  (at  least  effectively)  by  good  
> neighbor  selection  mechanism.  Changes  in  packet  scheduling  is  needed,  and
> those  changes  require  coordination/siganling  among  peers  and  ISPs  which
> is  something  that  can  be  of  interest  in  this  WG.
>  
> I  can  provide  more  details  on  these  issues  if  there  is  interest.
>  
> reza
>  
> On  Wed,  7  Apr  2010,  Xiao,  Lin  (NSN  -  CN/Beijing)  wrote:
>  
> >  IMO,  ALTO  is  the  best  way  to  do  any  optimized  peer  selection.  It  has
>  defined
> >  a  method  for  P2P  tracker  to communicate  with  ALTO  server  as  an  ALTO  client.
> >  The  logical  functionalities of  PPSP  and  ALTO  should  be separated
> >  clearly,while they can  work  together  very  well. If  there  is  any  PPSP
> >  specific  requirement  for  stream  optimization,  we  can  propose  it  to  ALTO  WG
> >  to  solve.
> >   
> >   
> >  Br
> >  Lin
> >  
> >  ____________________________________________________________________________
> >  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On  Behalf  Of  ext
> >  zhangyunfei
> >  Sent:  Wednesday,  April  07,  2010  10:04  AM
> >  To:  Volker  Hilt;  Djamel  Sadok
> >  Cc:  ppsp@ietf.org
> >  Subject:  Re:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
> >  
> >  I  agree  with  Volker's  opinion  on  this.There  may  be  some  optional  fields  in
> >  PPSP  messages  to  fetch  ISP  or  other  geographical/regional  inforamation  for
> >  localizaiton.But  the  optimization  operation  can  be  envisioned  to  be  done  by
> >  ALTO.
> >  In  this  case there  may  exist  some  extension  requirements  for  ALTO  to  deal
> >  with  more  kinds  of  messages  to  realize  traffic  optimization.
> >   
> >  BR
> >  Yunfei
> >   
> >  
> >  ____________________________________________________________________________
> >  zhangyunfei
> >  2010-04-07
> >  
> >  ____________________________________________________________________________
> >  发件人：  Volker  Hilt
> >  发送时间：  2010-04-06 21:13:17
> >  收件人：  Djamel  Sadok
> >  抄送：  ppsp@ietf.org
> >  主题：  Re:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
> >   
> >  Yes,   I   believe   that   to   the   extend   it   impacts   the
> >   structure/protocol   of   
> >  the   streaming   application   localization   should   be   considered   in   PPSP.
> >   
> >  There   is   obviously   a   tie   into   ALTO   as   well   for   the   exchange   of
>   
> >  localization   information.
> >   
> >  Thanks,
> >   
> >  Volker
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >  Djamel   Sadok   wrote:
> >   >   I   think   that   whether   the   ISP-friendliness   issue   should   become   or
> >   not   part   of
> >   >   the   P2P   streaming   protocol   depends   mainly   on   the   way   was   such
> >   optimization   is
> >   >   achieved.
> >   >   
> >   >   IF   one   can   structure   "intelligently"   the   streaming   to   facilitate
> >   its
> >   >   optimization   then   there   is   a   clear   need   to   consider   such
> >   optimization   as   part
> >   >   of   this   work.
> >   >   
> >   >   Djamel
> >   >   
> >   >   
> >   >   On   Tue,   06   Apr   2010   18:55:26   +0800,   Y.J.   Gu   wrote
> >   >   >   Hi   Reza,
> >   >   >   I'm   really   interested   in   the   issues   and   would   be   glad   to
> >   learn   the   details.
> >   >   >   Except   for   P2P   caching,   ALTO   and   DECADE   may   also   help   in
>   P2P
> >   
> >   >   >   streaming   optimization,   though   in   different   ways.   PPSP   will
> >   interact   
> >   >   >   with   the   work   performed   in   other   IETF   WGs,   e.g.   P2PSIP,
>   ALTO
> >   and   
> >   >   >   DECADE.   Since   P2P   streaming   optimization   (or   say   ISP   friendly)
> >   is   
> >   >   >   not   a   special   problem   for   P2P   streaming,   instead   it's   a
> >   common   issue   
> >   >   >   to   be   considered   in   P2P   application,   I   don't   think   it   will
> >   be   in   the   
> >   >   >   scope   of   PPSP.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >   Regards
> >   >   >
> >   >   >   Yingjie   Gu
> >   >   >
> >   >   >   >   -----Original   Message-----
> >   >   >   >   From:   ppsp-bounces@ietf.org   [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]   On   
> >   >   >   >   Behalf   Of   Reza   Rejaie
> >   >   >   >   Sent:   Tuesday,   April   06,   2010   4:17   PM
> >   >   >   >   To:   ppsp@ietf.org
> >   >   >   >   Subject:   [ppsp]   ISP-friendly   P2P   streaming
> >   >   >   >
> >   >   >   >
> >   >   >   >   Hi,
> >   >   >   >
> >   >   >   >   I   was   wondering   whether   there   has   been   any   discussion   (or
> >   any   
> >   >   >   >   interest)   in   this   working   group   on   issues   related   to
>   making
> >   
> >   >   >   >   P2P   streaming   application   (especially   live   streaming)   ISP   
> >   >   >   >   friendly?   Here   by   "ISP-friendly   P2P   streaming"   I   am
>   referring
> >   
> >   >   >   >   to   those   mechanisms   that   try   minimize   the   external   traffic
>   
> >   >   >   >   for   individual   ISPs
> >   >   >   >
> >   >   >   >   We   have   developed   a   couple   of   mesh-based   ISP-friendly   P2P
>   
> >   >   >   >   streaming   mechanisms   and   would   be   happy   to   provide   more   
> >   >   >   >   details   if   there   is   inetrest.
> >   >   >   >
> >   >   >   >   reza
> >   >   >   >   _______________________________________________
> >   >   >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
> >   >   >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
> >   >   >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >   >   >   _______________________________________________
> >   >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
> >   >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
> >   >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >   >   
> >   >   
> >   >   --
> >   >   GPRT   -   Grupo   de   Pesquisa   em   Redes   de   Computadores   e
> >   Telecomunicacoes
> >   >   
> >   >   _______________________________________________
> >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
> >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
> >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >   
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  ppsp   mailing   list
> >  ppsp@ietf.org
> >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >  
> >
> 
> 
>
---559023410-1812494366-1270718693=:13764--

From jamel@gprt.ufpe.br  Thu Apr  8 04:30:54 2010
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From: "Djamel Sadok" <jamel@gprt.ufpe.br>
To: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:12:50 -0200
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yes the signaling could include more info that may affect intelligently the processingof associated chunks, caching in the case of VoD, per chunk or per whatever unit, third party advertising, etc..We could think of an intermediary AS or infra provider that may want to include its own advertising material and in return is willing to give more QoS to such streams. This could help improve the current P2P-operator conflicts.DjamelOn Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:52:58 +0800, li.lichun1 wrote
> Hi Djamel
> What do you mean by "putting informationinto the stream"?
> I think the information should be carriedby the PPSP signaling protocol.
> 
> BR
> Lichun
> 
> 
>

 "DJamel H. Sadok"<jamel@gprt.ufpe.br> 
> 发件人: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
> 2010-04-07 18:05

> 收件人 "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)"<lin.xiao@nsn.com>

> 抄送 ppsp@ietf.org

> 主题 Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming

>

>

> 
> 
> 
> As far as peer selection is done, then I agree that it is within [UTF-8?]ALTOŽs
> scope. But what about other optimizations, did anyone think of putting
> information into the stream that could help its caching, or even prohibit
> its caching, etc.,, increase its caching probability for example, by 
> informing its popularity level? may be even at the chunk level, etc...
> 
> In other words, we could see a P2P stream as not only a passive data 
> stream but one that carries important and relevant information on how the
> P2P system may best handle it.
> 
> Djamel
> 
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing) wrote:
> 
> > IMO, ALTO is the best way to do any optimized peer selection. It hasdefined a method for P2P tracker to communicate with ALTO server as anALTO client. The logical functionalities of PPSP and ALTO should be separatedclearly,while they can work together very well. If there is any PPSP specificrequirement for stream optimization, we can propose it to ALTO WG to solve.
> >
> >
> > Br
> > Lin
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On BehalfOf ext zhangyunfei
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:04 AM
> > To: Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok
> > Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> >
> >
> > I agree with Volker's opinion on this.There may be some optional fieldsin PPSP messages to fetch ISP or other geographical/regional inforamationfor localizaiton.But the optimization operation can be envisioned to bedone by ALTO.
> > In this case there may exist some extension requirements for ALTOto deal with more kinds of messages to realize traffic optimization.
> >
> > BR
> > Yunfei
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > zhangyunfei
> > 2010-04-07
> > ________________________________
> >
> > [UTF-8?]·¢ŒþÈË£º Volker Hilt
> > [UTF-8?]·¢ËÍÊ±Œä£º 2010-04-06 21:13:17
> > [UTF-8?]ÊÕŒþÈË£º Djamel Sadok
> > ³­Ëͣº ppsp@ietf.org
> > Ö÷Ì⣺ Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> >
> > Yes, I believe that to the extendit impacts the structure/protocol of
> > the streaming application localization shouldbe considered in PPSP.
> > There is obviously a tie into ALTOas well for the exchange of
> > localization information.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Volker
> >
> >
> >
> > Djamel Sadok wrote:
> >> I think that whether the ISP-friendlinessissue should become or not part of
> >> the P2P streaming protocol dependsmainly on the way was such optimizationis
> >> achieved.
> >>
> >> IF one can structure "intelligently"the streaming to facilitate its
> >> optimization then there is a clearneed to consider such optimization aspart
> >> of this work.
> >>
> >> Djamel
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:55:26+0800, Y.J. Gu wrote
> >>> Hi Reza,
> >>> I'm really interested in theissues and would be glad to learnthe details.
> >>> Except for P2P caching, ALTOand DECADE may also help in P2P
> >>> streaming optimization, though indifferent ways. PPSP will interact
> >>> with the work performed in otherIETF WGs, e.g. P2PSIP, ALTO and
> >>> DECADE. Since P2P streaming optimization(or say ISP friendly) is
> >>> not a special problem for P2Pstreaming, instead it's a common issue
> >>> to be considered in P2P application,I don't think it will be in the
> >>> scope of PPSP.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Yingjie Gu
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]On
> >>>> Behalf Of Reza Rejaie
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 20104:17 PM
> >>>> To: ppsp@ietf.org
> >>>> Subject: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2Pstreaming
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I was wondering whether therehas been any discussion (or any
> >>>> interest) in this working groupon issues related to making
> >>>> P2P streaming application (especiallylive streaming) ISP
> >>>> friendly? Here by "ISP-friendlyP2P streaming" I am referring
> >>>> to those mechanisms that tryminimize the external traffic
> >>>> for individual ISPs
> >>>>
> >>>> We have developed a coupleof mesh-based ISP-friendly P2P
> >>>> streaming mechanisms and wouldbe happy to provide more
> >>>> details if there is inetrest.
> >>>>
> >>>> reza
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> ppsp mailing list
> >>>> ppsp@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ppsp mailing list
> >>> ppsp@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> GPRT - Grupo de Pesquisa emRedes de Computadores e Telecomunicacoes
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ppsp mailing list
> >> ppsp@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ppsp mailing list
> > ppsp@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >_______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> 
> 
>
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yes the signaling could include more info that may affect intelligently the=
 processing
of associated chunks, caching in the case of VoD, per chunk or per whatever=
 unit, third party=20
advertising, etc..

We could think of an intermediary AS or infra provider that may want to inc=
lude its own advertising material and in return is willing to give more QoS=
 to such streams. This could help improve the current P2P-operator conflict=
s.

Djamel


<font size=3D2><b>On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:52:58 +0800, li.lichun1 wrote</b><b=
r>&gt; <font size=3D2=20
face=3D"sans-serif">Hi=20
Djamel</font>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">What do you mean by &quot;putti=
ng=20
information
into the=20
stream&quot;?</font>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I think the information should =
be=20
carried
by the PPSP signaling protocol.<br>&gt;=20

</font>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">BR<br>&gt;=20

Lichun<br>&gt;=20

</font>
<br>&gt; <br>&gt;=20

<table=20
width=3D100%>
<tr=20
valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D34%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>&quot;DJamel H.=20
Sadok&quot;
&lt;jamel@gprt.ufpe.br&gt;</b>=20
</font>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D1 [UTF-8?]face=3D"sans-serif">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA: &nbsp;
ppsp-bounces@ietf.org</font>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">2010-04-07=20
18:05</font>
<td=20
width=3D65%>
<table=20
width=3D100%>
<tr=20
valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D1=20
[UTF-8?]face=3D"sans-serif">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</font>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&quot;Xiao, Lin (NSN -=20
CN/Beijing)&quot;
&lt;lin.xiao@nsn.com&gt;</font>
<tr=20
valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D1=20
[UTF-8?]face=3D"sans-serif">=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</font>
<td><font size=3D1=20
face=3D"sans-serif">ppsp@ietf.org</font>
<tr=20
valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<br>&gt; <font size=3D1=20
[UTF-8?]face=3D"sans-serif">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</font>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P=20
streaming</font></table>
<br>&gt;=20

<table>
<tr=20
valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br>&gt;=20
</table>
<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <tt><font size=3D2><br>&gt; <br>&gt;=20

As far as peer selection is done, then I agree that it is within=20
[UTF-8?]ALTO=C5=BDs
<br>&gt;=20

scope. But what about other optimizations, did anyone think of=20
putting
<br>&gt;=20

information into the stream that could help its caching, or even=20
prohibit
<br>&gt;=20

its caching, etc.,, increase its caching probability for example, by <br>&g=
t;=20

informing its popularity level? may be even at the chunk level, etc...<br>&=
gt;=20
<br>&gt;=20

In other words, we could see a P2P stream as not only a passive data <br>&g=
t;=20

stream but one that carries important and relevant information on how=20
the
<br>&gt;=20

P2P system may best handle it.<br>&gt; <br>&gt;=20

Djamel<br>&gt; <br>&gt;=20

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing) wrote:<br>&gt; <br>&gt;=20

&gt; IMO, ALTO is the best way to do any optimized peer selection. It=20
has
defined a method for P2P tracker to communicate with ALTO server as=20
an
ALTO client. The logical functionalities of PPSP and ALTO should be=20
separated
clearly,while they can work together very well. If there is any PPSP=20
specific
requirement for stream optimization, we can propose it to ALTO WG to=20
solve.<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Br<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Lin<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; ________________________________<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
Behalf
Of ext zhangyunfei<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:04 AM<br>&gt;=20

&gt; To: Volker Hilt; Djamel Sadok<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Cc: ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; I agree with Volker's opinion on this.There may be some optional=20
fields
in PPSP messages to fetch ISP or other geographical/regional=20
inforamation
for localizaiton.But the optimization operation can be envisioned to=20
be
done by ALTO.<br>&gt;=20

&gt; In this case there may exist some extension requirements for=20
ALTO
to deal with more kinds of messages to realize traffic optimization.<br>&gt=
;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; BR<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Yunfei<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; ________________________________<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; zhangyunfei<br>&gt;=20

&gt; 2010-04-07<br>&gt;=20

&gt; ________________________________<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; [UTF-8?]=C2=B7=C2=A2=C5=92=C3=BE=C3=88=C3=8B=C2=A3=C2=BA Volker Hilt<b=
r>&gt;=20

&gt; [UTF-8?]=C2=B7=C2=A2=C3=8B=C3=8D=C3=8A=C2=B1=C5=92=C3=A4=C2=A3=C2=BA 2=
010-04-06 21:13:17<br>&gt;=20

&gt; [UTF-8?]=C3=8A=C3=95=C5=92=C3=BE=C3=88=C3=8B=C2=A3=C2=BA Djamel Sadok<=
br>&gt;=20

&gt; =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

&gt; =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Yes, &nbsp;I &nbsp;believe &nbsp;that &nbsp;to &nbsp;the &nbsp;
extend
&nbsp;it &nbsp;impacts &nbsp;the &nbsp;structure/protocol &nbsp;of<br>&gt;=
=20

&gt; the &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;application &nbsp;localization &nbsp;
should
&nbsp;be &nbsp;considered &nbsp;in &nbsp;PPSP.<br>&gt;=20

&gt; There &nbsp;is &nbsp;obviously &nbsp;a &nbsp;tie &nbsp;into &nbsp;
ALTO
&nbsp;as &nbsp;well &nbsp;for &nbsp;the &nbsp;exchange &nbsp;of<br>&gt;=20

&gt; localization &nbsp;information.<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Thanks,<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Volker<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; Djamel &nbsp;Sadok &nbsp;wrote:<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;I &nbsp;think &nbsp;that &nbsp;whether &nbsp;the &nbsp;
ISP-friendliness
&nbsp;issue &nbsp;should &nbsp;become &nbsp;or &nbsp;not &nbsp;part &nbsp;
of<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;the &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;protocol &nbsp;
depends
&nbsp;mainly &nbsp;on &nbsp;the &nbsp;way &nbsp;was &nbsp;such &nbsp;
optimization
&nbsp;is<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;achieved.<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;IF &nbsp;one &nbsp;can &nbsp;structure &nbsp;
&quot;intelligently&quot;
&nbsp;the &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;to &nbsp;facilitate &nbsp;its<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;optimization &nbsp;then &nbsp;there &nbsp;is &nbsp;a &nbsp;
clear
&nbsp;need &nbsp;to &nbsp;consider &nbsp;such &nbsp;optimization &nbsp;
as
&nbsp;part<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;of &nbsp;this &nbsp;work.<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Djamel<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;On &nbsp;Tue, &nbsp;06 &nbsp;Apr &nbsp;2010 &nbsp;
18:55:26
&nbsp;+0800, &nbsp;Y.J. &nbsp;Gu &nbsp;wrote<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Hi &nbsp;Reza,<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;I'm &nbsp;really &nbsp;interested &nbsp;in &nbsp;
the
&nbsp;issues &nbsp;and &nbsp;would &nbsp;be &nbsp;glad &nbsp;to &nbsp;
learn
&nbsp;the &nbsp;details.<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Except &nbsp;for &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;caching, &nbsp;
ALTO
&nbsp;and &nbsp;DECADE &nbsp;may &nbsp;also &nbsp;help &nbsp;in &nbsp;
P2P<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;optimization, &nbsp;though &nbsp;
in
&nbsp;different &nbsp;ways. &nbsp;PPSP &nbsp;will &nbsp;interact<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;with &nbsp;the &nbsp;work &nbsp;performed &nbsp;in &nbsp;
other
&nbsp;IETF &nbsp;WGs, &nbsp;e.g. &nbsp;P2PSIP, &nbsp;ALTO &nbsp;and<br>&gt;=
=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;DECADE. &nbsp;Since &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;
optimization
&nbsp;(or &nbsp;say &nbsp;ISP &nbsp;friendly) &nbsp;is<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;not &nbsp;a &nbsp;special &nbsp;problem &nbsp;for &nbsp;
P2P
&nbsp;streaming, &nbsp;instead &nbsp;it's &nbsp;a &nbsp;common &nbsp;
issue<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;to &nbsp;be &nbsp;considered &nbsp;in &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;
application,
&nbsp;I &nbsp;don't &nbsp;think &nbsp;it &nbsp;will &nbsp;be &nbsp;in &nbsp;
the<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;scope &nbsp;of &nbsp;PPSP.<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Regards<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Yingjie &nbsp;Gu<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;-----Original &nbsp;Message-----<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;From: &nbsp;ppsp-bounces@ietf.org &nbsp;
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]
&nbsp;On<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Behalf &nbsp;Of &nbsp;Reza &nbsp;Rejaie<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Sent: &nbsp;Tuesday, &nbsp;April &nbsp;06, &nbsp;
2010
&nbsp;4:17 &nbsp;PM<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;To: &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Subject: &nbsp;[ppsp] &nbsp;ISP-friendly &nbsp;
P2P
&nbsp;streaming<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Hi,<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;I &nbsp;was &nbsp;wondering &nbsp;whether &nbsp;
there
&nbsp;has &nbsp;been &nbsp;any &nbsp;discussion &nbsp;(or &nbsp;any<br>&gt;=
=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;interest) &nbsp;in &nbsp;this &nbsp;working &nbsp;
group
&nbsp;on &nbsp;issues &nbsp;related &nbsp;to &nbsp;making<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;application &nbsp;
(especially
&nbsp;live &nbsp;streaming) &nbsp;ISP<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;friendly? &nbsp;Here &nbsp;by &nbsp;
&quot;ISP-friendly
&nbsp;P2P &nbsp;streaming&quot; &nbsp;I &nbsp;am &nbsp;referring<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;to &nbsp;those &nbsp;mechanisms &nbsp;that &nbsp;
try
&nbsp;minimize &nbsp;the &nbsp;external &nbsp;traffic<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;for &nbsp;individual &nbsp;ISPs<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;We &nbsp;have &nbsp;developed &nbsp;a &nbsp;
couple
&nbsp;of &nbsp;mesh-based &nbsp;ISP-friendly &nbsp;P2P<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;streaming &nbsp;mechanisms &nbsp;and &nbsp;
would
&nbsp;be &nbsp;happy &nbsp;to &nbsp;provide &nbsp;more<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;details &nbsp;if &nbsp;there &nbsp;is &nbsp;
inetrest.<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;reza<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;_______________________________________________<br>&=
gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<br>&gt;=
=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;_______________________________________________<br>&gt;=
=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;--<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;GPRT &nbsp;- &nbsp;Grupo &nbsp;de &nbsp;Pesquisa &nbsp;
em
&nbsp;Redes &nbsp;de &nbsp;Computadores &nbsp;e &nbsp;Telecomunicacoes<br>&=
gt;=20

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;_______________________________________________<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

&gt;&gt; &nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<br>&gt;=20

&gt;<br>&gt;=20

&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt;=20

&gt; ppsp &nbsp;mailing &nbsp;list<br>&gt;=20

&gt; ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<br>&gt;=20

&gt;_______________________________________________<br>&gt;=20

ppsp mailing list<br>&gt;=20

ppsp@ietf.org<br>&gt;=20

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp<br>&gt;=20

</font></tt>
<br>&gt; <br>&gt;=20
<pre>
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</pre><br><br><br>--=20
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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 08:52:54 +0800
From: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
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Great. I believe this will be an very interesting topic. And I hope to =
see the draft soon.


Regards

Yingjie Gu

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Reza Rejaie [mailto:reza@cs.uoregon.edu]=20
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 5:33 PM
> To: Y.J. Gu
> Cc: 'zhangyunfei'; 'Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)'; ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010, Y.J. Gu wrote:
>=20
> > Agree, the scheduling operation is not in scope,  the optional=20
> > ISP-friendliness fields in the PPSP Protocol is in the=20
> scope if the mechanism can help ISP-friendliness.
> > I'm interested too, as I've said.
> > FYI, PPlive has a mechanism of chunk scheduling from P2P=20
> application=20
> > performance perspective.
> > 1) Consecutive chunk first, i.e. download the nearest chunk=20
> to what is playing.
> > 2) Rarest first, downloading the rarest chunk in the=20
> system, which may=20
> > need a statistic information from a Tracker.
> > 3) anchor first, to guarantee quick channel swich. An=20
> anchor chunk can=20
> > be learn from description file.
> > =20
> > When you mention packet scheduling, do you mean the=20
> mechanism like the above ones?
> > =20
> yes, by scheduling I am reffering to the decision of which=20
> block/segment/packet to pll from each parent/neighbor
>=20
> As for references, we have papers that are currently under=20
> submission, so it may not be appropriate to share them with=20
> the entire group at this point.
>=20
> One of my collaborators or I should be able to present the=20
> problem, proposde solutions and its relevance to ietf at the=20
> next ieft meeting in July.
>=20
> thanks,
> reza
> > =20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Regards
> >=20
> > Yingjie Gu
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> >=20
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > ___________________________
> > From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]=20
> On Behalf=20
> > Of zhangyunfei
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:41 AM
> > To: Reza Rejaie; Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)
> > Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> >=20
> > Reza and Djamel's proposals sound interesting.The information=20
> > assisting in chunk cache and selection(e.g.,scheduling)to achieve=20
> > ISP-friendly P2P streaming seems interesting for PPSP=20
> although the scheduling opertion is out of scope.
> > I'd like to hear more details on the fields of such informations.
> > =20
> > BR
> > Yunfei
> > =20
> >=20
> >=20
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > ___________________________
> > zhangyunfei
> > 2010-04-08
> >=20
> >=20
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > ___________________________
> > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Reza Rejaie
> > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A 2010-04-07 18:57:17
> > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)
> > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A ext zhangyunfei; Volker Hilt; Djamel =
Sadok; ppsp@ietf.org
> > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A Re: [ppsp] ISP-friendly P2P streaming
> > =20
> > Thanks  for  the  emails  and  suggestions.  I  am  addressing  a =20
> > group  of  emails here.
> > =20
> > -  ISP-friendliness  for  *live*  video  can  not  be =20
addressed  by =20
> > caching due  to  the  live  nature  of  content.
> > =20
> > -  achieving  isp-friendliness  for  live  content  is  much  more =20
> > challenging  than for  elastic  content.
> > =20
> > -  There  are  different  ways  to  achieve =20
> ISP-friendliness,  either =20
> > by changing  overlay  connectivity  or  by  changing =20
packet  scheduling.
> > Different  approaches  have  different  limitations  on  how  much=20
> > reduction  in  traffic  they  can  achieve.
> > =20
> > Simple  ideas  (such  as  requiring  each  peer  to =20
establosh  x%  of =20
> > connection with  other  peers  within  the  same  ISP) =20
> would  not  be =20
> > effective  especially for  large  ISPs  where
> > =20
> > One  key  point  is  that  simply  making  the  overlay  localized =20
> > within each  ISP  does  NOT  work.  If  the  overlay  is  too =20
> > localized,  existing scheduling  schemes  can  not  provide  good =20
> > quality.  However,  if  overlay  is not  adequately =20
localized,  external  traffic  can  not  be  effectively >  limited.
> > =20
> > So  ISP-friendliness  can  not  be  achieved  (at  least =20
> effectively) =20
> > by  good neighbor  selection  mechanism.  Changes  in  packet =20
> > scheduling  is  needed,  and those  changes  require =20
> > coordination/siganling  among  peers  and  ISPs  which is =20
> something  that  can  be  of  interest  in  this  WG.
> > =20
> > I  can  provide  more  details  on  these  issues  if =20
there  is  interest.
> > =20
> > reza
> > =20
> > On  Wed,  7  Apr  2010,  Xiao,  Lin  (NSN  -  CN/Beijing)  wrote:
> > =20
> > >  IMO,  ALTO  is  the  best  way  to  do  any  optimized  peer =20
> > > selection.  It  has
> >  defined
> > >  a  method  for  P2P  tracker  to communicate  with  ALTO=20
>  server  as  an  ALTO  client.
> > >  The  logical  functionalities of  PPSP  and  ALTO  should  be=20
> > > separated
> > >  clearly,while they can  work  together  very  well. If =20
> there  is =20
> > > any  PPSP
> > >  specific  requirement  for  stream  optimization,  we =20
> can  propose =20
> > > it  to  ALTO  WG
> > >  to  solve.
> > >  =20
> > >  =20
> > >  Br
> > >  Lin
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > >=20
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > ________
> > >  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =20
> [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On =20
> > > Behalf  Of  ext
> > >  zhangyunfei
> > >  Sent:  Wednesday,  April  07,  2010  10:04  AM
> > >  To:  Volker  Hilt;  Djamel  Sadok
> > >  Cc:  ppsp@ietf.org
> > >  Subject:  Re:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  streaming
> > > =20
> > >  I  agree  with  Volker's  opinion  on  this.There  may =20
> be  some =20
> > > optional  fields  in
> > >  PPSP  messages  to  fetch  ISP  or  other =20
geographical/regional =20
> > > inforamation  for
> > >  localizaiton.But  the  optimization  operation  can  be =20
> envisioned =20
> > > to  be  done  by
> > >  ALTO.
> > >  In  this  case there  may  exist  some  extension  requirements =20
> > > for  ALTO  to  deal
> > >  with  more  kinds  of  messages  to  realize  traffic =20
> optimization.
> > >  =20
> > >  BR
> > >  Yunfei
> > >  =20
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > >=20
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > ________
> > >  zhangyunfei
> > >  2010-04-07
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > >=20
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > ________
> > >  =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A  Volker  Hilt
> > >  =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A  2010-04-06 =
21:13:17
> > >  =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A  Djamel  Sadok
> > >  =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A  ppsp@ietf.org
> > >  =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A  Re:  [ppsp]  ISP-friendly  P2P  =
streaming
> > >  =20
> > >  Yes,   I   believe   that   to   the   extend   it  =20
impacts   the
> > >   structure/protocol   of
> > >  the   streaming   application   localization   should  =20
> be   considered   in   PPSP.
> > >  =20
> > >  There   is   obviously   a   tie   into   ALTO   as  =20
well   for  =20
> > > the   exchange   of
> >  =20
> > >  localization   information.
> > >  =20
> > >  Thanks,
> > >  =20
> > >  Volker
> > >  =20
> > >  =20
> > >  =20
> > >  Djamel   Sadok   wrote:
> > >   >   I   think   that   whether   the   ISP-friendliness=20
>   issue  =20
> > > should   become   or
> > >   not   part   of
> > >   >   the   P2P   streaming   protocol   depends   mainly=20
>   on   the  =20
> > > way   was   such
> > >   optimization   is
> > >   >   achieved.
> > >   >
> > >   >   IF   one   can   structure   "intelligently"   the =20
 streaming  =20
> > > to   facilitate
> > >   its
> > >   >   optimization   then   there   is   a   clear   need   to  =20
> > > consider   such
> > >   optimization   as   part
> > >   >   of   this   work.
> > >   >
> > >   >   Djamel
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >   On   Tue,   06   Apr   2010   18:55:26   +0800,  =20
> Y.J.   Gu  =20
> > > wrote
> > >   >   >   Hi   Reza,
> > >   >   >   I'm   really   interested   in   the   issues   and  =20
> > > would   be   glad   to
> > >   learn   the   details.
> > >   >   >   Except   for   P2P   caching,   ALTO   and  =20
> DECADE   may  =20
> > > also   help   in
> >   P2P
> > >  =20
> > >   >   >   streaming   optimization,   though   in   different  =20
> > > ways.   PPSP   will
> > >   interact
> > >   >   >   with   the   work   performed   in   other  =20
IETF   WGs,  =20
> > > e.g.   P2PSIP,
> >   ALTO
> > >   and
> > >   >   >   DECADE.   Since   P2P   streaming  =20
optimization   (or  =20
> > > say   ISP   friendly)
> > >   is
> > >   >   >   not   a   special   problem   for   P2P   streaming,  =20
> > > instead   it's   a
> > >   common   issue
> > >   >   >   to   be   considered   in   P2P   application, =20
>  I   don't  =20
> > > think   it   will
> > >   be   in   the
> > >   >   >   scope   of   PPSP.
> > >   >   >
> > >   >   >   Regards
> > >   >   >
> > >   >   >   Yingjie   Gu
> > >   >   >
> > >   >   >   >   -----Original   Message-----
> > >   >   >   >   From:   ppsp-bounces@ietf.org  =20
> > > [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]   On
> > >   >   >   >   Behalf   Of   Reza   Rejaie
> > >   >   >   >   Sent:   Tuesday,   April   06,   2010   4:17   PM
> > >   >   >   >   To:   ppsp@ietf.org
> > >   >   >   >   Subject:   [ppsp]   ISP-friendly   P2P   streaming
> > >   >   >   >
> > >   >   >   >
> > >   >   >   >   Hi,
> > >   >   >   >
> > >   >   >   >   I   was   wondering   whether   there   has=20
>   been  =20
> > > any   discussion   (or
> > >   any
> > >   >   >   >   interest)   in   this   working   group  =20
> on   issues  =20
> > > related   to
> >   making
> > >  =20
> > >   >   >   >   P2P   streaming   application   (especially=20
>   live  =20
> > > streaming)   ISP
> > >   >   >   >   friendly?   Here   by   "ISP-friendly   P2P  =20
> > > streaming"   I   am
> >   referring
> > >  =20
> > >   >   >   >   to   those   mechanisms   that   try  =20
minimize   the  =20
> > > external   traffic
> >  =20
> > >   >   >   >   for   individual   ISPs
> > >   >   >   >
> > >   >   >   >   We   have   developed   a   couple   of  =20
mesh-based  =20
> > > ISP-friendly   P2P
> >  =20
> > >   >   >   >   streaming   mechanisms   and   would   be  =20
> happy   to  =20
> > > provide   more
> > >   >   >   >   details   if   there   is   inetrest.
> > >   >   >   >
> > >   >   >   >   reza
> > >   >   >   >   _______________________________________________
> > >   >   >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
> > >   >   >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
> > >   >   >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> > >   >   >   _______________________________________________
> > >   >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
> > >   >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
> > >   >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >   --
> > >   >   GPRT   -   Grupo   de   Pesquisa   em   Redes   de  =20
> > > Computadores   e
> > >   Telecomunicacoes
> > >   >
> > >   >   _______________________________________________
> > >   >   ppsp   mailing   list
> > >   >   ppsp@ietf.org
> > >   >   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> > >  =20
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  ppsp   mailing   list
> > >  ppsp@ietf.org
> > >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> > > =20
> > >
> >=20
> >=20
> >
>=20


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From guyingjie@huawei.com  Thu Apr  8 19:34:46 2010
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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:34:26 +0800
From: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN
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Hi Li,
In next version, you may also need to redefine the CSC as not only
downloading but also uploading, right?
=20
 =20
[gyj] No offend, but I think this more likes a bunch of cachings and =
users,
all act as peers, around Tracker. Both cachers and storers are actually
non-transparent P2P caching in typical P2P applications. None of CDN
features are left except for the naming.  No one can find the other =
without
the help of Tracker. In a P2P CDN, a user can still be served without =
P2P
mechanism, but herein this seems impossible.

[Lichun] If all CSCs don't report content availability or tracker =
doesn't
put CSC in peer list, a user can still download content. So this system
works without using P2P among user nodes.=20
=20
[gyj] What if Tracker is totally disappear from the system? Neither =
Content
source, or storer(cacher) can publish their content on Tracker, how =
should
user know where to download? In existing CDN (or P2P CDN), there are =
many
methods to help user find a good place to download. E.g. user can get =
the
url or address of a content source from EPG and then be redirected to a
nearby storage node(cacher in your draft).  This part seems lost in this
draft.=20
=20
And according to my knowledge, using P2P among servers is normal in =
existing
CDNs. Can you tell me the missing CDN features so that I can improve the
solution?=20
=20
[gyj ]If you take Tracker away from the system and the system still =
works,
then I think it's CDN based. Yes, in existing P2P-CDN, P2P mechanism can =
be
deployed among 1) network storage nodes, 2) users, or 3) both, from =
academic
perspective. Implementation will be different in practice and there is =
no
standard yet, and we need P2P CDN implementation experience to find out
feasible architecture before we add PPSP into them. Besides I think PPSP
should be an additional part to CDN, instead of the kernel and necessary
part, however Tracker has become a kernel in this architecture.=20

Regards

Yingjie Gu

=20


  _____ =20

From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn [mailto:li.lichun1@zte.com.cn]=20
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:32 AM
To: Y.J. Gu
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN



Hi, Yingjie=20

Thanks for your further comments.=20
Please see inline.=20

BR=20
Lichun Li



"Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>=20


2010-04-08 11:17=20


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20

=B3=AD=CB=CD
ppsp@ietf.org=20

=D6=F7=CC=E2
RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN

=09

Hi Li,=20
See inline please.=20
 =20
Regards=20
Yingjie Gu=20





  _____ =20

From: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn [mailto:li.lichun1@zte.com.cn]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 2:51 PM
To: Y.J. Gu
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN


Hi, Yingjie=20

Thank you for your comments.=20
Please see inline.=20

BR=20
Lichun Li=20


Hi Li,=20
In section 3 Architecture, why should there be an interface between =
cacher
and content source? When should this interface be used? I think cacher =
can
always download resource from storer. Even there is no content on =
storer,
storer can download from content source and then push to cacher.=20
=20
[Lichun] Content source can use CDN to publish contents in three ways: =
1.
publishing content location to tracker; 2. storing content in storage
overlay; 3. both 1 and 2. Three ways may charge different, and may be
suitable for different scenarios. If a content source chooses way 1, the
interface between cacher and content source is needed.  =20
 =20
 =20
[gyj] No offend, but I think this more likes a bunch of cachings and =
users,
all act as peers, around Tracker. Both cachers and storers are actually
non-transparent P2P caching in typical P2P applications. None of CDN
features are left except for the naming.  No one can find the other =
without
the help of Tracker. In a P2P CDN, a user can still be served without =
P2P
mechanism, but herein this seems impossible.

[Lichun] If all CSCs don't report content availability or tracker =
doesn't
put CSC in peer list, a user can still download content. So this system
works without using P2P among user nodes. And according to my knowledge,
using P2P among servers is normal in existing CDNs. Can you tell me the
missing CDN features so that I can improve the solution?=20

I find that both content source and storer can publish the location of a
content to Tracker, and storer will publish when the location of a =
content
changes. Why bother content source to publish the content location, as
storer can do it. And there will be repeated publishing when content =
source
publish a content and the storer, where content source stores the =
content,
will publish again.=20

[Lichun] Publishing twice can increase capacity, as cacher can download
content from both content source and storer.=20
=20
In 4.3, CSC downloading content, "In that case, the CSC SHALL use  =
RELOAD
Fetch method to fetch the content information from the overlay." .  CSC =
is a
PPSP peer, not a reload peer.  Should it be "Tracker" instead of CSC?=20

[Lichun] CSC is a RELOAD client here.  =20
[gyj] Sorry, but in terminology, CSC is only defined as a PPSP peer.=20
   CSC (Content Sharing Client): The client that is running in a user=20
   device for downloading shared contents.  User devices includes mobile =

   device, laptop, PC etc.  A CSC is a PPSP peer.=20

[Lichun] My mistake. CSC is a RELOAD client in this case, but is not in
other cases. I will add some explanation in next version.
=20
In general, I think the system works and each functions can be supported =
by
the system. The problem is that this is a quite complicate giant, almost =
any
device, any part of the system can communicate with any other part, and =
any
part can report to Tracker. Could these make network management too
complicate and difficult?=20

[Lichun] I don't think network management would be a problem. And the =
system
can be simplified in real deployment. We just list possible good ways to =
use
the P2P CDN. Not all message flows in the draft are mandatory.=20
=20
=20
Regards=20
Yingjie Gu=20


=20


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color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010>Hi Li,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010>In next version, you may also need to =
redefine the CSC=20
as not only downloading but also uploading, right?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010><FONT size=3D3><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D5>[gyj] No offend, but I think this more likes a =
bunch of=20
cachings and users, all act as peers, around Tracker. Both cachers and =
storers=20
are actually non-transparent P2P caching in typical P2P applications. =
None of=20
CDN features are left except for the naming. &nbsp;No one can find the =
other=20
without the help of Tracker. In a P2P CDN, a user can still be served =
without=20
P2P mechanism, but herein this seems impossible.</FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D5>[Lichun] If all CSCs don't report content availability or =
tracker doesn't=20
put CSC in peer list, a user can still download content. So this system =
works=20
without using P2P among user nodes. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D5></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>[gyj]=20
What if Tracker is totally disappear from the system? Neither Content =
source, or=20
storer(cacher) can publish their content on Tracker, how should user =
know where=20
to&nbsp;download? In existing CDN (or P2P CDN), there are many methods =
to help=20
user find a good place to download. E.g. user can get the url or =
address&nbsp;of=20
a content source from EPG and then be redirected to a nearby storage =
node(cacher=20
in your draft).&nbsp;&nbsp;This part&nbsp;seems&nbsp;lost in this=20
draft.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#000000 size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D5><SPAN =
class=3D340160502-09042010></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D5>And according to my knowledge, using P2P among servers is =
normal in=20
existing CDNs. Can you tell me the missing CDN features so that I can =
improve=20
the solution?</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D5><SPAN=20
class=3D340160502-09042010><FONT color=3D#000000>[gyj ]</FONT>If you =
take Tracker=20
away from the system and the system still works, then I think it's CDN =
based.=20
Yes, in existing P2P-CDN, P2P mechanism can be deployed among 1) network =
storage=20
nodes, 2) users, or 3) both, from academic perspective. Implementation =
will be=20
different in practice and there is no standard yet, and we need P2P CDN=20
implementation experience to find out&nbsp;feasible architecture before =
we add=20
PPSP into them.&nbsp;Besides I think PPSP should be an additional part =
to CDN,=20
instead of the kernel and necessary part, however Tracker has become a =
kernel in=20
this architecture. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>
<P class=3DMsoSalutation style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" =
align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =
mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; =
mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT=20
size=3D4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT=20
size=3D4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-cn dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20
  [mailto:li.lichun1@zte.com.cn] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2010 =
9:32=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Y.J. Gu<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
  [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi, Yingjie</FONT> =
<BR><BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thanks for your further comments.</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Please see inline.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2>BR</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Lichun =
Li<BR></FONT><BR><BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"34%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Y.J. Gu"=20
        &lt;guyingjie@huawei.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2010-04-08 11:17</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"65%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>li.lichun1@zte.com.cn</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=CD</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>ppsp@ietf.org</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=E2</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: [ppsp] New draft =
about P2P=20
              CDN</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D5>Hi Li,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D5>See inline please.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 =
size=3D4>Regards</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D4>Yingjie Gu</FONT>=20
  <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3></FONT> <BR><BR>
  <HR>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> li.lichun1@zte.com.cn=20
  [mailto:li.lichun1@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 07, =
2010 2:51=20
  PM<B><BR>To:</B> Y.J. Gu<B><BR>Cc:</B> =
ppsp@ietf.org<B><BR>Subject:</B> RE:=20
  [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Hi, =
Yingjie</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR>Thank you=20
  for your comments.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Please see inline.</FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR><BR>BR</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR>Lichun=20
  Li</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue size=3D5>Hi Li,</FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue =
size=3D5><BR>In section 3=20
  Architecture, why should there be an interface between cacher and =
content=20
  source? When should this interface be used? I think cacher can always =
download=20
  resource from storer. Even there is no content on storer, storer can =
download=20
  from content source and then push to cacher.</FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D5><BR>[Lichun]=20
  Content source can use CDN to publish contents in three ways: 1. =
publishing=20
  content location to tracker; 2. storing content in storage overlay; 3. =
both 1=20
  and 2. Three ways may charge different, and may be suitable for =
different=20
  scenarios. If a content source chooses way 1, the interface between =
cacher and=20
  content source is needed.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue size=3D5>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT =

  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dred =
size=3D5>[gyj]=20
  No offend, but I think this more likes a bunch of cachings and users, =
all act=20
  as peers, around Tracker. Both cachers and storers are actually=20
  non-transparent P2P caching in typical P2P applications. None of CDN =
features=20
  are left except for the naming. &nbsp;No one can find the other =
without the=20
  help of Tracker. In a P2P CDN, a user can still be served without P2P=20
  mechanism, but herein this seems impossible.</FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D5>[Lichun] If all CSCs=20
  don't report content availability or tracker doesn't put CSC in peer =
list, a=20
  user can still download content. So this system works without using =
P2P among=20
  user nodes. And according to my knowledge, using P2P among servers is =
normal=20
  in existing CDNs. Can you tell me the missing CDN features so that I =
can=20
  improve the solution?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D5><BR>I find that both content source and storer can publish =
the location=20
  of a content to Tracker, and storer will publish when the location of =
a=20
  content changes. Why bother content source to publish the content =
location, as=20
  storer can do it. And there will be repeated publishing when content =
source=20
  publish a content and the storer, where content source stores the =
content,=20
  will publish again.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D5><BR>[Lichun] Publishing twice can =
increase=20
  capacity, as cacher can download content from both content source and =
storer.=20
  </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue size=3D5><BR>In 4.3, CSC =
downloading content,=20
  "</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>In that case, the CSC SHALL =
use=20
  &nbsp;RELOAD Fetch method to fetch the content information from=20
  the</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2> overlay.</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue size=3D5>" . &nbsp;CSC is a PPSP =
peer, not a=20
  reload peer. &nbsp;Should it be "Tracker" instead of CSC?</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D5><BR>[Lichun] CSC is a RELOAD client here.</FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue =
size=3D5>&nbsp;</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dred size=3D5>[gyj] Sorry, =
but in=20
  terminology, CSC is only defined as a PPSP peer.</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif color=3Dred size=3D3>&nbsp; &nbsp;CSC (Content =
Sharing Client):=20
  The client that is running in a user</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  color=3Dred size=3D3>&nbsp; &nbsp;device for downloading shared =
contents.=20
  &nbsp;User devices includes mobile</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
color=3Dred=20
  size=3D3>&nbsp; &nbsp;device, laptop, PC etc. &nbsp;A CSC is a PPSP =
peer.</FONT>=20

  <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>[Lichun] My mistake. CSC is a =
RELOAD client in=20
  this case, but is not in other cases. I will add some explanation in =
next=20
  version.<BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue =
size=3D5><BR>In=20
  general, I think the system works and each functions can be supported =
by the=20
  system. The problem is that this is a quite complicate giant, almost =
any=20
  device, any part of the system can communicate with any other part, =
and any=20
  part can report to Tracker. Could these make network management too =
complicate=20
  and difficult?</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D5><BR>[Lichun] I don't think network =
management=20
  would be a problem. And the system can be simplified in real =
deployment. We=20
  just list possible good ways to use the P2P CDN. Not all message flows =
in the=20
  draft are mandatory. </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D3><BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D5><BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3D=CB=CE=CC=E5 =
size=3D4><BR>Regards</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D4><BR>Yingjie=20
  Gu</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D5></FONT>&nbsp;</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Hi=A3=ACli

I have two questions :



1. In 4.2 you mentioned , with P2P algorithms ,content source can store
massive contents in the storage overlay reliably, which reduces the overhea=
d
of maintaining content sources.



How does storage overlay reduce the overhead of maintaining content sources=
?
What kinds of overhead?



2. According to the draft-chen-ppsp-dht-chunk-discovery-evaluation-00.txt
and draft-hu-ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison-01.txt, the performanc=
e
evaluation has proved that DHT or RELOAD is not suitable for the chunk
discovery in P2P streaming especially the live media streaming. For example=
,
if the chunk location changes dynamically in the live media scenario, the
DHT tracker for chunk discovery might be not suitable for chunk location
refreshing and maintaining.



Has your P2P CDN consider this performance considerations in dynamic
scenarios?

Thanks.

Liu yuting

Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications

Mobile lIfe and New mEdia(MINE) Lab

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<p style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
font face=3D"Times New Roman">Hi</font></span><span>=A3=AC</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">li</font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">I have two q=
uestions :</font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><span>&nbsp;=
</span></font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">1. In 4.2 yo=
u mentioned , with P2P algorithms ,content source can store massive content=
s in the storage overlay reliably, which reduces the overhead of maintainin=
g content sources. </font></span></p>

<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">How does sto=
rage overlay reduce the overhead of maintaining content sources? What kinds=
 of overhead?</font></span></p>

<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><span>&nbsp;=
</span></font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">2. According=
 to the draft-chen-ppsp-dht-chunk-discovery-evaluation-00.txt and draft-hu-=
ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison-01.txt, the performance evaluation =
has proved that DHT or RELOAD is not suitable for the chunk discovery in P2=
P streaming especially the live media streaming. For example, if the chunk =
location changes dynamically in the live media scenario, the DHT tracker fo=
r chunk discovery might be not suitable for chunk location refreshing and m=
aintaining.</font></span></p>

<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Has your P2P=
 CDN consider this performance considerations in dynamic scenarios?</font><=
/span></p>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Liu yuting</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bid=
i-font-size: 10.5pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Beijing =
University of Posts and Telecommunications</font></span></p>
<p style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bid=
i-font-size: 10.5pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Mobile l=
Ife and New mEdia(MINE) Lab</font></span></p><br clear=3D"all"><br></div>

--001636c5c210fa29280483cac57a--

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To: li.lichun1@zte.com.cn
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Cc: ppsp@ietf.org, =?GB2312?B?wu3Mzg==?= <abcdmatao@gmail.com>, zhangchbupt@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P CDN
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Hi=A3=ACli

I have two questions :



1. In 4.2 you mentioned , with P2P algorithms ,content source can store
massive contents in the storage overlay reliably, which reduces the overhea=
d
of maintaining content sources.



How does storage overlay reduce the overhead of maintaining content sources=
?
What kinds of overhead?



2. According to the draft-chen-ppsp-dht-chunk-discovery-evaluation-00.txt
and draft-hu-ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison-01.txt, the performanc=
e
evaluation has proved that DHT or RELOAD is not suitable for the chunk
discovery in P2P streaming especially the live media streaming. For example=
,
if the chunk location changes dynamically in the live media scenario, the
DHT tracker for chunk discovery might be not suitable for chunk location
refreshing and maintaining.



Has your P2P CDN consider this performance considerations in dynamic
scenarios?

Thanks.

Liu yuting

Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications

Mobile lIfe and New mEdia(MINE) Lab

--0050450158a6777c270483cb3f3b
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<p style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
font face=3D"Times New Roman">Hi</font></span><span>=A3=AC</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">li</font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">I have two q=
uestions :</font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><span>&nbsp;=
</span></font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">1. In 4.2 yo=
u mentioned , with P2P algorithms ,content source can store massive content=
s in the storage overlay reliably, which reduces the overhead of maintainin=
g content sources. </font></span></p>

<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">How does sto=
rage overlay reduce the overhead of maintaining content sources? What kinds=
 of overhead?</font></span></p>

<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><span>&nbsp;=
</span></font></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">2. According=
 to the draft-chen-ppsp-dht-chunk-discovery-evaluation-00.txt and draft-hu-=
ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison-01.txt, the performance evaluation =
has proved that DHT or RELOAD is not suitable for the chunk discovery in P2=
P streaming especially the live media streaming. For example, if the chunk =
location changes dynamically in the live media scenario, the DHT tracker fo=
r chunk discovery might be not suitable for chunk location refreshing and m=
aintaining.</font></span></p>

<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal" alig=
n=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Has your P2P=
 CDN consider this performance considerations in dynamic scenarios?</font><=
/span></p>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Liu yuting</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
font face=3D"Times New Roman">Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunica=
tions</font></span></p>
<p style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
font face=3D"Times New Roman">Mobile lIfe and New mEdia(MINE) Lab</font></s=
pan></p></div>

--0050450158a6777c270483cb3f3b--

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From victor.grishchenko@gmail.com  Mon Apr 12 10:30:58 2010
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From: Victor Grishchenko <victor.grishchenko@gmail.com>
To: IETF PPSP WG <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Subject: [ppsp] Draft submitted: "The Generic Multiparty Transport Protocol (swift)"
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Hi group!

Today I have submitted a draft spec for swift, the generic swarming transport:
  http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-grishchenko-ppsp-swift-00.txt

The protocol is designed for maximum genericity and is supposed to work...
 * over IP, UDP, TCP
 * under different overlay topologies (client-server, CDN,
peer-to-peer, peer-assisted)
 * for different usecases (data, VoD, live)
Today's swarming protocols are very much alike; the original
contribution of swift is elimination of technical metadata (aka
.torrent files) and magic numbers (uses generic unit system) and
implementation over unreliable (aka atomic) datagrams, thanks to
packet-precise hash trees.

The spec is based on the current UDP-based implementation available at:
  http://github.com/gritzko/swift  (httpgw is the most recent branch)

The work is supported by the P2P-Next, a pan-European consortium
developing a next generation content delivery platform:
  http://p2p-next.org

Comments/questions are welcome.

-- 
Victor

From khwu@astri.org  Tue Apr 13 01:27:40 2010
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Thread-Topic: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
thread-index: AcrA7qI/tSVt0113SCyxWXxleEF0TAQjJARQAlk+9mA=
From: "Kang Heng WU" <khwu@astri.org>
To: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>, "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Yingjie,

=20

I try to answer your questions as follows.

=20

Thanks,

Kent

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:29 PM
To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah Ming Chiu'
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

=20

Hi kent,

Good job!

Some comments to the draft.=20

1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does Chunk ID-i in content status on Tracker
represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of all the chunks or 2)the chunk on the
i-th layer. I guess it should 1), but 'i' has been used to represent
layer-i in other places of the draft, so I think use another letter,
e.g. 'k', can avoid confusion.

            Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.

=20

2 Could you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look
like, what should be included.

            Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the
introduction section.

            "For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile
devices while higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or
STB players. However, in the P2P network, if there are too many
independent video data transmitting, the users' inbound and outbound
bandwidth will not be efficiently used [3]. Peers in different versions
will not help each other. The overall video quality received will not be
optimal."=20

=20

3=20

4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker

=20

   When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an
ACK.

   The chunk information keeps the layer number and the bitfield

   information for each layer in each chunk.

=20

The red word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and
layer? Do chunks belong to respective layers, or there are different
layers in one chunk. Could provide more information?

            Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several
layers (One is the base layer. The others are the enhanced layers).=20

=20

=20

4=20

4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)

=20

   The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or higher

   layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the numbers

   of active layers of the peer should be included in the request

   message.

=20

What does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting peer
wants?=20

Answer: The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer.
According to the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all
the lower layers are available. Therefore, the peer selection process
should consider the active layer.

=20

=20

Regards

Yingjie Gu

=20

=20


  _____ =20


From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Kang Heng WU
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 PM
To: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

Hi Yunfei,

=20

We would like to request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered
Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document is
the draft.=20

=20

The abstract of the draft is as follows.

The scenarios where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains
heterogeneous nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile
devices, PCs and set-top boxes may all need to access and provide
service for the same content. To support heterogeneity and maximize the
total network utilization, it may be necessary to have layered coding of
content to achieve desired results. This document defines the Layered
P2P Streaming in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer nodes.

=20

Thanks,

Kangheng

=20

=20

=20


  _____ =20


This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s
use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or
legally privileged information intended for a specific individual and
purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient,
please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system,
destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use,
disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any
attachments is strictly prohibited.=20


  _____ =20


=20



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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Yingjie,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I try to answer your questions as =
follows.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kent</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Y.J. Gu
[mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, April 01, =
2010
5:29 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Kang Heng WU; =
'zhangyunfei';
ppsp@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Lei Zhibin James; =
'Dah Ming
Chiu'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ppsp] New =
draft
about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in =
PPSP</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>Hi kent,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>Good job!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>Some comments to the draft. </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does&nbsp;Chunk ID-i in content
status&nbsp;on Tracker represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of&nbsp;all the =
chunks or
2)the&nbsp;chunk on the i-th layer. I guess it&nbsp;should 1), but 'i' =
has been
used to represent layer-i in other places of the draft, so I think use =
another
letter, e.g. 'k', can avoid confusion.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>2&nbsp;Could you give some example of Layer Information, =
what does
it look like, what should be included.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the introduction =
section.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&#8220;For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile devices =
while
higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or STB players. =
However,
in the P2P network, if there are too many independent video data =
transmitting,
the users&#8217; inbound and outbound bandwidth will not be efficiently =
used
[3]. Peers in different versions will not help each other. The overall =
video
quality received will not be optimal.&#8221; </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>3 </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into =
Tracker</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; When a peer puts its chunk information, the =
tracker
will reply an ACK.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The chunk information keeps the layer number =
and </span></font><font
color=3Dred face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:red'>the bitfield</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dred
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:red'>&nbsp;&nbsp; information for each layer in each =
chunk</span></font><font
color=3Dblack face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>The red word confuses me. What's the relationship between =
chunk and
layer? Do chunks belong to respective layers, or there are different =
layers in
one chunk. Could provide more information?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several layers (One is =
the base
layer. The others are the enhanced layers). </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>4 </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The helpful neighbors of a peer should be =
those with
equal or higher</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; layer peers. When a peer sends the =
GET-PEERLIST
request, the numbers</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; of </span></font><font color=3Dred
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:red'>active</span></font><font color=3Dblack face=3D"FrutigerNext =
LT Regular"><span
style=3D'font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";color:black'> layers of =
the peer
should be included in the request</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; message.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D5 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue'>What does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the =
requesting
peer wants? </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"FrutigerNext LT Regular";
color:navy'>Answer: The active layer mean that the peer selects the =
current
layer. According to the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only =
if all
the lower layers are available. Therefore, the peer selection process =
should
consider the active layer.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoSalutation =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Regards</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Yingjie =
Gu</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of </span></b>Kang
Heng WU<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 11, =
2010
3:44 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> zhangyunfei; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Lei Zhibin James; Dah =
Ming
Chiu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [ppsp] New draft =
about
P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in =
PPSP</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi =
Yunfei,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We would like to request a =
time slot
to present our draft &quot;P2P Layered Streaming for Heterogeneous =
Networks in
PPSP&quot;. The attached document is the draft. </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The abstract of the draft =
is as
follows.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The scenarios where a =
Peer-to-Peer
Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains heterogeneous nodes need special
considerations. For example, mobile devices, PCs and set-top boxes may =
all need
to access and provide service for the same content. To support =
heterogeneity
and maximize the total network utilization, it may be necessary to have =
layered
coding of content to achieve desired results. This document defines the =
Layered
P2P Streaming in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer =
nodes.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Kangheng</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D1 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'>This message (including any
attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain
sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged =
information
intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. =
If you
are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all =
copies of
it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the =
sender. Any
use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any
attachments is strictly prohibited. </span></font></p>

<div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D1
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</div>


<br>=
<br>
<hr>
<FONT FACE=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><FONT SIZE=3D1 STYLE=3D"font-size: 8pt">
This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:16:42 +0800
From: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <BE02F9AF5524E143A6C5D396E0DFAAEF0170685E@ASPROEXG.astri.local>
To: 'Kang Heng WU' <khwu@astri.org>, 'zhangyunfei' <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, ppsp@ietf.org
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Cc: 'Lei Zhibin James' <lei@astri.org>, 'Dah Ming Chiu' <dmchiu@ie.cuhk.edu.hk>
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
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Thank you kent.
Do you have implementation or experimental system for layered PPSP? Or is
this an academic study?
 
 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 


  _____  

From: Kang Heng WU [mailto:khwu@astri.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM
To: Y.J. Gu; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP



Hi Yingjie,

 

I try to answer your questions as follows.

 

Thanks,

Kent

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:29 PM
To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah Ming Chiu'
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

 

Hi kent,

Good job!

Some comments to the draft. 

1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does Chunk ID-i in content status on Tracker
represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of all the chunks or 2)the chunk on the i-th
layer. I guess it should 1), but 'i' has been used to represent layer-i in
other places of the draft, so I think use another letter, e.g. 'k', can
avoid confusion.

            Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.

 

2 Could you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look like,
what should be included.

            Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the
introduction section.

            "For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile
devices while higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or STB
players. However, in the P2P network, if there are too many independent
video data transmitting, the users' inbound and outbound bandwidth will not
be efficiently used [3]. Peers in different versions will not help each
other. The overall video quality received will not be optimal." 

 

3 

4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker

 

   When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an ACK.

   The chunk information keeps the layer number and the bitfield

   information for each layer in each chunk.

 

The red word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and layer?
Do chunks belong to respective layers, or there are different layers in one
chunk. Could provide more information?

            Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several layers
(One is the base layer. The others are the enhanced layers). 

 

 

4 

4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)

 

   The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or higher

   layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the numbers

   of active layers of the peer should be included in the request

   message.

 

What does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting peer
wants? 

Answer: The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer.
According to the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all the
lower layers are available. Therefore, the peer selection process should
consider the active layer.

 

 

Regards

Yingjie Gu

 

 


  _____  


From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kang
Heng WU
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 PM
To: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

Hi Yunfei,

 

We would like to request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered
Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document is the
draft. 

 

The abstract of the draft is as follows.

The scenarios where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains
heterogeneous nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile
devices, PCs and set-top boxes may all need to access and provide service
for the same content. To support heterogeneity and maximize the total
network utilization, it may be necessary to have layered coding of content
to achieve desired results. This document defines the Layered P2P Streaming
in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer nodes.

 

Thanks,

Kangheng

 

 

 


  _____  


This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use
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privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any
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  _____  


 



  _____  

This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use
only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally
privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any
hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or
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<BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=746541406-14042010><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=5>Thank you&nbsp;kent.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=746541406-14042010><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=5>Do you have implementation or experimental system for layered PPSP? Or is 
this an academic study?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=746541406-14042010><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2>
<P class=MsoSalutation style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=left><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: &#23435;&#20307;; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN 
lang=EN-US><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=left><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: &#23435;&#20307;; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT 
size=4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US 
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT 
size=4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=zh-cn dir=ltr align=left>
  <HR tabIndex=-1>
  <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Kang Heng WU [mailto:khwu@astri.org] 
  <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Y.J. Gu; 
  zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming 
  Chiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for 
  HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi 
  Yingjie,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I try to answer your 
  questions as follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kent</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original 
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Y.J. Gu 
  [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <BR><B><SPAN 
  style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:29 
  PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Kang Heng WU; 
  'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN 
  style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah Ming 
  Chiu'<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [ppsp] New 
  draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in 
  PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Device Font 10cpi" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">Hi 
  kent,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">Good 
  job!</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">Some 
  comments to the draft. </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">1 section 
  3.1, Fig 1, what does&nbsp;Chunk ID-i in content status&nbsp;on Tracker 
  represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of&nbsp;all the chunks or 2)the&nbsp;chunk on 
  the i-th layer. I guess it&nbsp;should 1), but 'i' has been used to represent 
  layer-i in other places of the draft, so I think use another letter, e.g. 'k', 
  can avoid confusion.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">2&nbsp;Could 
  you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look like, what 
  should be included.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the introduction 
  section.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &#8220;For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile devices while 
  higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or STB players. However, 
  in the P2P network, if there are too many independent video data transmitting, 
  the users&#8217; inbound and outbound bandwidth will not be efficiently used [3]. 
  Peers in different versions will not help each other. The overall video 
  quality received will not be optimal.&#8221; </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">3 
  </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">4.3. 
  PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=blue size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an 
  ACK.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  The chunk information keeps the layer number and </SPAN></FONT><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=red><SPAN 
  style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">the 
  bitfield</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=red size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  information for each layer in each chunk</SPAN></FONT><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black><SPAN 
  style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">The red 
  word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and layer? Do chunks 
  belong to respective layers, or there are different layers in one chunk. Could 
  provide more information?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several layers (One is the base 
  layer. The others are the enhanced layers). </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">4 
  </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">4.4. 
  GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=blue size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or 
  higher</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the 
  numbers</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  of </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=red><SPAN 
  style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">active</SPAN></FONT><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black><SPAN 
  style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'"> layers of the 
  peer should be included in the request</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=black size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  message.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Device Font 10cpi" 
  color=blue size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  color=blue size=5><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">What does 
  active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting peer wants? 
  </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
  face="FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=navy size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">Answer: 
  The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer. According to 
  the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all the lower layers are 
  available. Therefore, the peer selection process should consider the active 
  layer.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Device Font 10cpi" 
  color=blue size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P class=MsoSalutation 
  style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT 
  face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yingjie Gu</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE 
  style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
    <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT 
    face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
    <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal 
    style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT 
    face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT 
    face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> 
    ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Kang Heng WU<BR><B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 
    PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> zhangyunfei; 
    ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Lei 
    Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu<BR><B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [ppsp] New draft about P2P 
    Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Yunfei,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Device Font 10cpi" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We would like to request a time 
    slot to present our draft "P2P Layered Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks 
    in PPSP". The attached document is the draft. </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Device Font 10cpi" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The abstract of the draft is as 
    follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The scenarios where a 
    Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains heterogeneous nodes need 
    special considerations. For example, mobile devices, PCs and set-top boxes 
    may all need to access and provide service for the same content. To support 
    heterogeneity and maximize the total network utilization, it may be 
    necessary to have layered coding of content to achieve desired results. This 
    document defines the Layered P2P Streaming in PPSP with support for 
    heterogeneous peer nodes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Device Font 10cpi" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
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Thread-Topic: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
thread-index: AcrA7qI/tSVt0113SCyxWXxleEF0TAQjJARQAlk+9mAALmem4AABAtzQ
From: "Lei Zhibin James" <lei@astri.org>
To: "Y.J. Gu" <guyingjie@huawei.com>, "Kang Heng WU" <khwu@astri.org>, "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Cc: dmchiu <dmchiu@ie.cuhk.edu.hk>
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
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Dear Yingjie,
=20
Yes, we do have a practical system and platform for supporting the
layered P2P streaming.=20
=20
Best regards
=20
James Lei
ASTRI

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:17 PM
	To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
	Cc: Lei Zhibin James; dmchiu
	Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
=09
=09
	Thank you kent.
	Do you have implementation or experimental system for layered
PPSP? Or is this an academic study?
	=20
	=20
=09

	Regards

	Yingjie Gu

	=20


________________________________

		From: Kang Heng WU [mailto:khwu@astri.org]=20
		Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM
		To: Y.J. Gu; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
		Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
		Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered
Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
	=09
	=09

		Hi Yingjie,

		=20

		I try to answer your questions as follows.

		=20

		Thanks,

		Kent

		=20

		-----Original Message-----
		From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com]=20
		Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:29 PM
		To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
		Cc: Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah Ming Chiu'
		Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered
Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

		=20

		Hi kent,

		Good job!

		Some comments to the draft.=20

		1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does Chunk ID-i in content
status on Tracker represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of all the chunks or
2)the chunk on the i-th layer. I guess it should 1), but 'i' has been
used to represent layer-i in other places of the draft, so I think use
another letter, e.g. 'k', can avoid confusion.

		            Answer: OK. I will modify it in next
version.

		=20

		2 Could you give some example of Layer Information, what
does it look like, what should be included.

		            Answer: We write a paragraph about the
scenario in the introduction section.

		            "For example, lower resolution video can be
sent to mobile devices while higher resolution or high quality video is
sent to PC or STB players. However, in the P2P network, if there are too
many independent video data transmitting, the users' inbound and
outbound bandwidth will not be efficiently used [3]. Peers in different
versions will not help each other. The overall video quality received
will not be optimal."=20

		=20

		3=20

		4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker

		=20

		   When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker
will reply an ACK.

		   The chunk information keeps the layer number and the
bitfield

		   information for each layer in each chunk.

		=20

		The red word confuses me. What's the relationship
between chunk and layer? Do chunks belong to respective layers, or there
are different layers in one chunk. Could provide more information?

		            Answer: One chunk consists of data packets
for several layers (One is the base layer. The others are the enhanced
layers).=20

		=20

		=20

		4=20

		4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)

		=20

		   The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with
equal or higher

		   layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST
request, the numbers

		   of active layers of the peer should be included in
the request

		   message.

		=20

		What does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the
requesting peer wants?=20

		Answer: The active layer mean that the peer selects the
current layer. According to the layer code, a higher layer can be
decoded only if all the lower layers are available. Therefore, the peer
selection process should consider the active layer.

		=20

		=20

		Regards

		Yingjie Gu

		=20

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kang Heng WU
			Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 PM
			To: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
			Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
			Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered
Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

			Hi Yunfei,

			=20

			We would like to request a time slot to present
our draft "P2P Layered Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP".
The attached document is the draft.=20

			=20

			The abstract of the draft is as follows.

			The scenarios where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming
Protocol (PPSP) contains heterogeneous nodes need special
considerations. For example, mobile devices, PCs and set-top boxes may
all need to access and provide service for the same content. To support
heterogeneity and maximize the total network utilization, it may be
necessary to have layered coding of content to achieve desired results.
This document defines the Layered P2P Streaming in PPSP with support for
heterogeneous peer nodes.

			=20

			Thanks,

			Kangheng

			=20

			=20

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			This message (including any attachments) is for
the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive,
confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged information
intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law.
If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and
all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and
notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this
message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.=20

		=09
________________________________


			=20



________________________________

		This message (including any attachments) is for the
named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential,
private proprietary or legally privileged information intended for a
specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not
the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of
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________________________________






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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Dear=20
Yingjie,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Yes,=20
we do have a practical system and platform for supporting the layered =
P2P=20
streaming. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Best=20
regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>James=20
Lei</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>ASTRI</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Y.J. =
Gu=20
  [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, =
2010 2:17=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; =
ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lei=20
  Zhibin James; dmchiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P =
Layered=20
  Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D5>Thank you&nbsp;kent.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D5>Do you have implementation or experimental system for layered =
PPSP? Or=20
  is this an academic study?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>
  <P class=3DMsoSalutation style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" =
align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: &#23435;&#20307;; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =
mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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&#23435;&#20307;; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: =
Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT=20
  size=3D4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT=20
  size=3D4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
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align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Kang Heng WU =
[mailto:khwu@astri.org]=20
    <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Y.J. =
Gu;=20
    zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming=20
    Chiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered =
Streaming for=20
    HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DSection1>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
    Yingjie,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I try to =
answer=20
    your questions as follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Kent</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
    Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">From:</SPAN></B> Y.J. Gu=20
    [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, April 01, =
2010 5:29=20
    PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Kang Heng =
WU;=20
    'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah =
Ming=20
    Chiu'<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> =
RE: [ppsp]=20
    New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in=20
    PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"=20
    size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">Hi=20
    kent,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">Good=20
    job!</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">Some=20
    comments to the draft. </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">1=20
    section 3.1, Fig 1, what does&nbsp;Chunk ID-i in content =
status&nbsp;on=20
    Tracker represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of&nbsp;all the chunks or=20
    2)the&nbsp;chunk on the i-th layer. I guess it&nbsp;should 1), but =
'i' has=20
    been used to represent layer-i in other places of the draft, so I =
think use=20
    another letter, e.g. 'k', can avoid confusion.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
    Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">2&nbsp;Could=20
    you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look like, =
what=20
    should be included.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
    Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the introduction=20
    section.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
    &#8220;For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile =
devices while=20
    higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or STB =
players.=20
    However, in the P2P network, if there are too many independent video =
data=20
    transmitting, the users&#8217; inbound and outbound bandwidth will =
not be=20
    efficiently used [3]. Peers in different versions will not help each =
other.=20
    The overall video quality received will not be optimal.&#8221; =
</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">3=20
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">4.3.=20
    PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an=20
    ACK.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    The chunk information keeps the layer number and </SPAN></FONT><FONT =

    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dred><SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">the=20
    bitfield</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dred size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    information for each layer in each chunk</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'">.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">The red=20
    word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and layer? =
Do chunks=20
    belong to respective layers, or there are different layers in one =
chunk.=20
    Could provide more information?</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
    Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several layers (One =
is the=20
    base layer. The others are the enhanced layers). </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">4=20
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">4.4.=20
    GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or=20
    higher</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the=20
    numbers</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    of </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" =
color=3Dred><SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'">active</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'"> =
layers of the=20
    peer should be included in the request</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    message.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">What=20
    does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting peer =
wants?=20
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'">Answer:=20
    The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer. =
According to=20
    the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all the lower =
layers=20
    are available. Therefore, the peer selection process should consider =
the=20
    active layer.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Device Font 10cpi"=20
    color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoSalutation=20
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D4><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D4><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yingjie =
Gu</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
      <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">=20
      ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Kang Heng =
WU<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 11, =
2010 3:44=20
      PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
zhangyunfei;=20
      ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Lei=20
      Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [ppsp] New draft =
about P2P=20
      Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in =
PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
      Yunfei,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We =
would like to=20
      request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered Streaming =
for=20
      Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document is the =
draft.=20
      </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
abstract of=20
      the draft is as follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
scenarios=20
      where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains =
heterogeneous=20
      nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile devices, =
PCs and=20
      set-top boxes may all need to access and provide service for the =
same=20
      content. To support heterogeneity and maximize the total network=20
      utilization, it may be necessary to have layered coding of content =
to=20
      achieve desired results. This document defines the Layered P2P =
Streaming=20
      in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer =
nodes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Kangheng</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
      <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This =
message=20
      (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use =
only. It=20
      may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or =
legally=20
      privileged information intended for a specific individual and =
purpose, and=20
      is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please =

      immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, =
destroy any=20
      hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, =
copying, or=20
      distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly=20
      prohibited. </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
      face=3DArial size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">
      <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
      face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR>
    <HR>
    <FONT face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><FONT style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt" =
size=3D1>This=20
    message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s =
use=20
    only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or =
legally=20
    privileged information intended for a specific individual and =
purpose, and=20
    is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please=20
    immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy =
any=20
    hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, =
copying, or=20
    distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly =
prohibited.=20
    <HR>
    </FONT><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT>
<br>=
<br>
<hr>
<FONT FACE=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><FONT SIZE=3D1 STYLE=3D"font-size: 8pt">
This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.
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From: JeffreyHo <hocs@itri.org.tw>
To: "'Lei Zhibin James'" <lei@astri.org>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
References: <001501cadb9a$0d680d90$58548a0a@china.huawei.com> <9D6E040026E9AB43A7A12C17134B18AEC2FBBE@ASPROEXG.astri.local>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming forHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
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It seems that this draft can't be found at the formal PPSP Status Page in
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ppsp/
Should it be submitted to there?
Thanks.

  _____ =0D

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lei
Zhibin James
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:46 PM
To: Y.J. Gu; Kang Heng WU; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: dmchiu
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming
forHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP


Dear Yingjie,
=0D
Yes, we do have a practical system and platform for supporting the layered
P2P streaming.=0D
=0D
Best regards
=0D
James Lei
ASTRI

-----Original Message-----
From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com]=0D
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:17 PM
To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; dmchiu
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP


Thank you kent.
Do you have implementation or experimental system for layered PPSP? Or is
this an academic study?
=0D
=0D


Regards

Yingjie Gu

=0D


  _____ =0D

From: Kang Heng WU [mailto:khwu@astri.org]=0D
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM
To: Y.J. Gu; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP



Hi Yingjie,

=0D

I try to answer your questions as follows.

=0D

Thanks,

Kent

=0D

-----Original Message-----
From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com]=0D
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:29 PM
To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah Ming Chiu'
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

=0D

Hi kent,

Good job!

Some comments to the draft.=0D

1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does Chunk ID-i in content status on Tracker
represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of all the chunks or 2)the chunk on the i-th
layer. I guess it should 1), but 'i' has been used to represent layer-i in
other places of the draft, so I think use another letter, e.g. 'k', can
avoid confusion.

            Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.

=0D

2 Could you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look like,
what should be included.

            Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the
introduction section.

            =A1=A7For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile
devices while higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or STB
players. However, in the P2P network, if there are too many independent
video data transmitting, the users=A1=A6 inbound and outbound bandwidth=
 will not
be efficiently used [3]. Peers in different versions will not help each
other. The overall video quality received will not be optimal.=A1=A8=0D

=0D

3=0D

4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker

=0D

   When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an ACK.

   The chunk information keeps the layer number and the bitfield

   information for each layer in each chunk.

=0D

The red word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and layer?
Do chunks belong to respective layers, or there are different layers in one
chunk. Could provide more information?

            Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several layers
(One is the base layer. The others are the enhanced layers).=0D

=0D

=0D

4=0D

4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)

=0D

   The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or higher

   layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the numbers

   of active layers of the peer should be included in the request

   message.

=0D

What does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting peer
wants?=0D

Answer: The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer.
According to the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all the
lower layers are available. Therefore, the peer selection process should
consider the active layer.

=0D

=0D

Regards

Yingjie Gu

=0D

=0D


  _____ =0D


From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=
 Kang
Heng WU
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 PM
To: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

Hi Yunfei,

=0D

We would like to request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered
Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document is the
draft.=0D

=0D

The abstract of the draft is as follows.

The scenarios where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains
heterogeneous nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile
devices, PCs and set-top boxes may all need to access and provide service
for the same content. To support heterogeneity and maximize the total
network utilization, it may be necessary to have layered coding of content
to achieve desired results. This document defines the Layered P2P Streaming
in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer nodes.

=0D

Thanks,

Kangheng

=0D

=0D

=0D


  _____ =0D


This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s=
 use
only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or=
 legally
privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any
hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or
distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.=
=0D


  _____ =0D


=0D



  _____ =0D

This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s=
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only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or=
 legally
privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any
hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or
distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.=
=0D
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  _____ =0D

This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s=
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only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or=
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distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.=
=0D
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Palatino Linotype" color=
=3D#0000ff=0D
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D203170707-27042010>It seems that this draft=
 can't&nbsp;be=0D
found at the formal PPSP Status Page in </SPAN></FONT><FONT=0D
face=3D"Palatino Linotype" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=0D
href=
=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ppsp/">http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ppsp/</A></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D203170707-27042010><FONT=0D
face=3D"Palatino Linotype" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Should it be submitted=
=0D
to&nbsp;there?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D203170707-27042010><FONT=0D
face=3D"Palatino Linotype" color=3D#0000ff size=
=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-tw dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=0D
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Lei Zhibin=0D
James<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Y.J.=
 Gu;=0D
Kang Heng WU; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B>=
 dmchiu<BR><B>Subject:</B>=0D
Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming forHeterogeneousNetworks=
 in=0D
PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2>Dear=0D
Yingjie,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=0D
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2>Yes,=0D
we do have a practical system and platform for supporting the layered P2P=0D
streaming. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=0D
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2>Best=0D
regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=0D
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2>James=0D
Lei</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=0D
size=3D2>ASTRI</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><FONT=0D
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Y.J. Gu=
=0D
  [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2010=
 2:17=0D
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B>=
 Lei=0D
  Zhibin James; dmchiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P=
 Layered=0D
  Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT color=
=3D#0000ff=0D
  size=3D5>Thank you&nbsp;kent.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT color=
=3D#0000ff=0D
  size=3D5>Do you have implementation or experimental system for layered=
 PPSP? Or=0D
  is this an academic study?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT color=
=3D#0000ff=0D
  size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>
  <P class=3DMsoSalutation style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=3Dleft><SPAN=
=0D
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =A7=BA=CA^; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial;=
 mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN=0D
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" align=3Dleft><SPAN=0D
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 mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT=0D
  size=3D4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN lang=
=3DEN-US=0D
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;=
 mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT=0D
  size=3D4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=0D
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px=
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    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-cn dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Kang Heng WU=
 [mailto:khwu@astri.org]=0D
    <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Y.J. Gu;=
=0D
    zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming=0D
    Chiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered=
 Streaming for=0D
    HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DSection1>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=0D
    Yingjie,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I try to=
 answer=0D
    your questions as follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">Kent</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
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    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma=
 size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=0D
    Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>=
 Y.J. Gu=0D
    [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <BR><B><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, April 01, 2010=
 5:29=0D
    PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Kang Heng WU;=
=0D
    'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah Ming=
=0D
    Chiu'<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE:=
 [ppsp]=0D
    New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in=0D
    PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
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    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">Hi=0D
    kent,</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">Good=0D
    job!</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">Some=0D
    comments to the draft. </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">1=0D
    section 3.1, Fig 1, what does&nbsp;Chunk ID-i in content status&nbsp;on=
=0D
    Tracker represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of&nbsp;all the chunks or=0D
    2)the&nbsp;chunk on the i-th layer. I guess it&nbsp;should 1), but 'i'=
 has=0D
    been used to represent layer-i in other places of the draft, so I think=
 use=0D
    another letter, e.g. 'k', can avoid confusion.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=0D
    Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">2&nbsp;Could=0D
    you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look like,=
 what=0D
    should be included.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=0D
    Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the introduction=0D
    section.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=0D
    =A1=A7For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile devices=
 while=0D
    higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or STB players.=0D
    However, in the P2P network, if there are too many independent video=
 data=0D
    transmitting, the users=A1=A6 inbound and outbound bandwidth will not=
 be=0D
    efficiently used [3]. Peers in different versions will not help each=
 other.=0D
    The overall video quality received will not be optimal.=A1=A8=
 </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">3=0D
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">4.3.=0D
    PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=0D
    When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an=0D
    ACK.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=0D
    The chunk information keeps the layer number and </SPAN></FONT><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dred><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">the=0D
    bitfield</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dred size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=0D
    information for each layer in each chunk</SPAN></FONT><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">The red=0D
    word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and layer? Do=
 chunks=0D
    belong to respective layers, or there are different layers in one=
 chunk.=0D
    Could provide more information?</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=0D
    Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several layers (One is=
 the=0D
    base layer. The others are the enhanced layers). </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">4=0D
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">4.4.=0D
    GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=0D
    The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or=0D
    higher</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=0D
    layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the=0D
    numbers</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=0D
    of </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=
=3Dred><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">active</SPAN></FONT><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'"> layers=
 of the=0D
    peer should be included in the request</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=0D
    message.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Device=
 Font 10cpi"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'">What=0D
    does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting peer=
 wants?=0D
    </SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT=
 Regular'">Answer:=0D
    The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer.=
 According to=0D
    the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all the lower=
 layers=0D
    are available. Therefore, the peer selection process should consider=
 the=0D
    active layer.</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Device=
 Font 10cpi"=0D
    color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoSalutation=0D
    style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT:=
 0in"><FONT=0D
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
 size=3D4><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">Regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
 size=3D4><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yingjie=
 Gu</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
    size=3D3><SPAN=0D
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=0D
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP:=
 medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt=
 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM:=
 medium none">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=0D
      size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=
=3Dcenter><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
      <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=0D
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT:=
 0in"><B><FONT=0D
      face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=0D
      face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Tahoma">=0D
      ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Kang Heng=
 WU<BR><B><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 11, 2010=
 3:44=0D
      PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=
 zhangyunfei;=0D
      ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B>=
 Lei=0D
      Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu<BR><B><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [ppsp] New draft=
 about P2P=0D
      Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
=0D
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=0D
      Yunfei,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
=0D
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We would=
 like to=0D
      request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered Streaming for=0D
      Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document is the draft.=
=0D
      </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
=0D
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The=
 abstract of=0D
      the draft is as follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
=0D
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The=
 scenarios=0D
      where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains heterogeneous=
=0D
      nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile devices, PCs=
 and=0D
      set-top boxes may all need to access and provide service for the same=
=0D
      content. To support heterogeneity and maximize the total network=0D
      utilization, it may be necessary to have layered coding of content to=
=0D
      achieve desired results. This document defines the Layered P2P=
 Streaming=0D
      in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer nodes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
=0D
      size=3D2><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
=0D
      size=3D2><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">Kangheng</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=0D
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT:=
 0in"><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=
=3Dcenter><FONT=0D
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
      <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial=
=0D
      size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This=
 message=0D
      (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only.=
 It=0D
      may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally=0D
      privileged information intended for a specific individual and=
 purpose, and=0D
      is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please=0D
      immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy=
 any=0D
      hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure,=
 copying, or=0D
      distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly=0D
      prohibited. </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
      <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=
=3Dcenter><FONT=0D
      face=3DArial size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial">
      <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
      </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=0D
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT:=
 0in"><FONT=0D
      face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=0D
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR>
    <HR>
    <FONT face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><FONT style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt" size=
=3D1>This=0D
    message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use=
=0D
    only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or=
 legally=0D
    privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose,=
 and=0D
    is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please=0D
    immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy=
 any=0D
    hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying,=
 or=0D
    distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly=
 prohibited.=0D
    <HR>
    </FONT><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><BR><BR>
<HR>
<FONT face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><FONT style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt" size=
=3D1>This message=0D
(including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It=
 may=0D
contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged=
=0D
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is=
 protected by=0D
law. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it=
 and all=0D
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the=
=0D
sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message=
 and/or any=0D
attachments is strictly prohibited.=0D
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<table><tr><td bgcolor=3D#ffffff><font color=3D#000000>=A5=BB=ABH=A5=F3=A5i=
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P LayeredStreamingforHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
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From ietfdbh@comcast.net  Tue Apr 27 10:51:26 2010
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From: "David Harrington" <ietfdbh@comcast.net>
To: "'zhangyunfei'" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, "'JeffreyHo'" <hocs@itri.org.tw>, "'Lei Zhibin James'" <lei@astri.org>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
References: <001501cadb9a$0d680d90$58548a0a@china.huawei.com><9D6E040026E9AB43A7A12C17134B18AEC2FBBE@ASPROEXG.astri.local><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANjvMqXSvmBGn6ZXfgU4X2nigAAAEAAAALCbs4A8vcJInRL7hGKGNicBAAAAAA==@itri.org.tw> <201004271542258283521@chinamobile.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:50:56 -0400
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2PLayeredStreamingforHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
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the official website for submitting a draft is at https://datatracker.
ietf.org/idst/upload.cgi
=20
dbh


  _____ =20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of zhangyunfei
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:42 AM
To: JeffreyHo; 'Lei Zhibin James'; ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about
P2PLayeredStreamingforHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP


The following link is
valid.http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/current/msg00539.html
=20
Hi James,please submit the draft in the official website.Thanks.
=20
BR
Yunfei
=20

  _____ =20

zhangyunfei
2010-04-27

  _____ =20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA JeffreyHo
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2010-04-27 15:14:14
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA 'Lei Zhibin James'; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P
LayeredStreamingforHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP
=20

It seems that this draft can't be found at the formal PPSP Status Page
in http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ppsp/
Should it be submitted to there?
Thanks.

  _____ =20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Lei Zhibin James
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:46 PM
To: Y.J. Gu; Kang Heng WU; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: dmchiu
Subject: Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming
forHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP


Dear Yingjie,
=20
Yes, we do have a practical system and platform for supporting the
layered P2P streaming.=20
=20
Best regards
=20
James Lei
ASTRI

-----Original Message-----
From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:17 PM
To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; dmchiu
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP


Thank you kent.
Do you have implementation or experimental system for layered PPSP? Or
is this an academic study?
=20
=20


Regards

Yingjie Gu

=20


  _____ =20

From: Kang Heng WU [mailto:khwu@astri.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM
To: Y.J. Gu; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP



Hi Yingjie,

=20

I try to answer your questions as follows.

=20

Thanks,

Kent

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Y.J. Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:29 PM
To: Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah Ming Chiu'
Subject: RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

=20

Hi kent,

Good job!

Some comments to the draft.=20

1 section 3.1, Fig 1, what does Chunk ID-i in content status on
Tracker represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of all the chunks or 2)the chunk
on the i-th layer. I guess it should 1), but 'i' has been used to
represent layer-i in other places of the draft, so I think use another
letter, e.g. 'k', can avoid confusion.

            Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.

=20

2 Could you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look
like, what should be included.

            Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the
introduction section.

            =A1=B0For example, lower resolution video can be sent to
mobile devices while higher resolution or high quality video is sent
to PC or STB players. However, in the P2P network, if there are too
many independent video data transmitting, the users=A1=AF inbound and
outbound bandwidth will not be efficiently used [3]. Peers in
different versions will not help each other. The overall video quality
received will not be optimal.=A1=B1=20

=20

3=20

4.3. PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker

=20

   When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an
ACK.

   The chunk information keeps the layer number and the bitfield

   information for each layer in each chunk.

=20

The red word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and
layer? Do chunks belong to respective layers, or there are different
layers in one chunk. Could provide more information?

            Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several
layers (One is the base layer. The others are the enhanced layers).=20

=20

=20

4=20

4.4. GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)

=20

   The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or
higher

   layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the
numbers

   of active layers of the peer should be included in the request

   message.

=20

What does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting
peer wants?=20

Answer: The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer.
According to the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all
the lower layers are available. Therefore, the peer selection process
should consider the active layer.

=20

=20

Regards

Yingjie Gu

=20

=20


  _____ =20


From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Kang Heng WU
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:44 PM
To: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Lei Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu
Subject: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for
HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP

Hi Yunfei,

=20

We would like to request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered
Streaming for Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document
is the draft.=20

=20

The abstract of the draft is as follows.

The scenarios where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains
heterogeneous nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile
devices, PCs and set-top boxes may all need to access and provide
service for the same content. To support heterogeneity and maximize
the total network utilization, it may be necessary to have layered
coding of content to achieve desired results. This document defines
the Layered P2P Streaming in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer
nodes.

=20

Thanks,

Kangheng

=20

=20

=20


  _____ =20


This message (including any attachments) is for the named
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=20



  _____ =20

This message (including any attachments) is for the named
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  _____ =20

This message (including any attachments) is for the named
addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential,
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not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D094115017-27042010><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the official website for submitting a draft is =
at <A=20
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/upload.cgi">https://datatracker=
.ietf.org/idst/upload.cgi</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D094115017-27042010><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D094115017-27042010><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>dbh</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>zhangyunfei<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:42 AM<BR><B>To:</B> JeffreyHo; 'Lei Zhibin =
James';=20
  ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ppsp] New draft about=20
  P2PLayeredStreamingforHeterogeneousNetworks in =
PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The following link =
is=20
  =
valid.http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/current/msg00539.html</FO=
NT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi James,please =
submit the draft=20
  in the official website.Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>BR</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
  <HR style=3D"WIDTH: 122px; HEIGHT: 2px" SIZE=3D2>
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#c0c0c0><FONT face=3DVerdana =
size=3D2>zhangyunfei</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana =
size=3D2>2010-04-27</FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
  <HR>
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</STRONG>=20
  JeffreyHo</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA</STRONG>=20
  2010-04-27&nbsp;15:14:14</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</STRONG> 'Lei Zhibin James';=20
  ppsp@ietf.org</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</STRONG> </FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA</STRONG> Re: [ppsp] New draft=20
  about P2P LayeredStreamingforHeterogeneousNetworks in =
PPSP</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Palatino Linotype" =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D203170707-27042010>It seems that this draft =
can't&nbsp;be=20
  found at the formal PPSP Status Page in </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Palatino Linotype" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ppsp/">http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ppsp/</A=
></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D203170707-27042010><FONT=20
  face=3D"Palatino Linotype" color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Should it be =
submitted=20
  to&nbsp;there?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D203170707-27042010><FONT=20
  face=3D"Palatino Linotype" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-tw dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Lei Zhibin=20
  James<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Y.J. Gu;=20
  Kang Heng WU; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
  dmchiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered =
Streaming=20
  forHeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Dear=20
  Yingjie,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Yes,=20
  we do have a practical system and platform for supporting the layered =
P2P=20
  streaming. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Best=20
  regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>James Lei</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D719514306-14042010><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>ASTRI</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
Y.J. Gu=20
    [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, =
2010=20
    2:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Kang Heng WU; 'zhangyunfei';=20
    ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lei Zhibin James; =
dmchiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
    [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for =
HeterogeneousNetworks in=20
    PPSP<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D5>Thank you&nbsp;kent.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D5>Do you have implementation or experimental system for =
layered PPSP?=20
    Or is this an academic study?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D746541406-14042010><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D5></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>
    <P class=3DMsoSalutation style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" =
align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =CB=CE=CC=E5; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =
mso-hansi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN=20
    lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" =
align=3Dleft><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: =
=CB=CE=CC=E5; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: =
Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT=20
    size=3D4>Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"></FONT><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT=20
    size=3D4>Yingjie Gu</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Dzh-cn dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
      <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
      <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Kang Heng WU =
[mailto:khwu@astri.org]=20
      <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Y.J. Gu;=20
      zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lei Zhibin James; Dah =
Ming=20
      Chiu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ppsp] New draft about P2P Layered =
Streaming=20
      for HeterogeneousNetworks in PPSP<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
      <DIV></DIV>
      <DIV class=3DSection1>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
      Yingjie,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I try =
to answer=20
      your questions as follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Kent</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
      Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">From:</SPAN></B> Y.J.=20
      Gu [mailto:guyingjie@huawei.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, April 01, =
2010 5:29=20
      PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Kang =
Heng WU;=20
      'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Lei Zhibin James; 'Dah =
Ming=20
      Chiu'<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> =
RE: [ppsp]=20
      New draft about P2P Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in =

      PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">Hi=20
      kent,</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">Good=20
      job!</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">Some=20
      comments to the draft. </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">1=20
      section 3.1, Fig 1, what does&nbsp;Chunk ID-i in content =
status&nbsp;on=20
      Tracker represent, 1) the i-the Chunk of&nbsp;all the chunks or=20
      2)the&nbsp;chunk on the i-th layer. I guess it&nbsp;should 1), but =
'i' has=20
      been used to represent layer-i in other places of the draft, so I =
think=20
      use another letter, e.g. 'k', can avoid =
confusion.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
      Answer: OK. I will modify it in next version.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">2&nbsp;Could=20
      you give some example of Layer Information, what does it look =
like, what=20
      should be included.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
      Answer: We write a paragraph about the scenario in the =
introduction=20
      section.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
      =A1=B0For example, lower resolution video can be sent to mobile =
devices while=20
      higher resolution or high quality video is sent to PC or STB =
players.=20
      However, in the P2P network, if there are too many independent =
video data=20
      transmitting, the users=A1=AF inbound and outbound bandwidth will =
not be=20
      efficiently used [3]. Peers in different versions will not help =
each=20
      other. The overall video quality received will not be =
optimal.=A1=B1=20
      </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">3=20
      </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">4.3.=20
      PUT-CHUNK (Put Chunk Information) into Tracker</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      When a peer puts its chunk information, the tracker will reply an=20
      ACK.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      The chunk information keeps the layer number and =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dred><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'">the=20
      bitfield</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dred size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      information for each layer in each chunk</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'">.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">The=20
      red word confuses me. What's the relationship between chunk and =
layer? Do=20
      chunks belong to respective layers, or there are different layers =
in one=20
      chunk. Could provide more information?</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
      Answer: One chunk consists of data packets for several layers (One =
is the=20
      base layer. The others are the enhanced layers). =
</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">4=20
      </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">4.4.=20
      GET-PEERLIST (Peer Selection)</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      The helpful neighbors of a peer should be those with equal or=20
      higher</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      layer peers. When a peer sends the GET-PEERLIST request, the=20
      numbers</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      of </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" =
color=3Dred><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT =
Regular'">active</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext LT Regular'"> =
layers of=20
      the peer should be included in the request</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      message.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblue size=3D5><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">What=20
      does active layers means?Doesit mean the layers the requesting =
peer wants?=20
      </SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"FrutigerNext LT Regular" color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'FrutigerNext =
LT Regular'">Answer:=20
      The active layer mean that the peer selects the current layer. =
According=20
      to the layer code, a higher layer can be decoded only if all the =
lower=20
      layers are available. Therefore, the peer selection process should =

      consider the active layer.</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" color=3Dblue size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
blue"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoSalutation=20
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
      face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D4><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
      size=3D4><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Yingjie=20
      Gu</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE=20
      style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; =
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: =
5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
        face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
        <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
        <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
        face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
        <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
        </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
        style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
        face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
        face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">=20
        ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <B><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Kang Heng=20
        WU<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Thursday,=20
        March 11, 2010 3:44 PM<BR><B><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> zhangyunfei;=20
        ppsp@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Lei=20
        Zhibin James; Dah Ming Chiu<BR><B><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [ppsp] New draft =
about P2P=20
        Layered Streaming for HeterogeneousNetworks in =
PPSP</SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
        size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
        Yunfei,</SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
        face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
        size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We =
would like=20
        to request a time slot to present our draft "P2P Layered =
Streaming for=20
        Heterogeneous Networks in PPSP". The attached document is the =
draft.=20
        </SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
        face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
        size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
abstract of=20
        the draft is as follows.</SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
        size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
scenarios=20
        where a Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol (PPSP) contains =
heterogeneous=20
        nodes need special considerations. For example, mobile devices, =
PCs and=20
        set-top boxes may all need to access and provide service for the =
same=20
        content. To support heterogeneity and maximize the total network =

        utilization, it may be necessary to have layered coding of =
content to=20
        achieve desired results. This document defines the Layered P2P =
Streaming=20
        in PPSP with support for heterogeneous peer =
nodes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
        face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
        size=3D2><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
        size=3D2><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Kangheng</SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
        face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT=20
        face=3D"Device Font 10cpi" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
        style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
        face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
        <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
        <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
        face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
        <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
        </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
        size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This =
message=20
        (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use =
only. It=20
        may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or =
legally=20
        privileged information intended for a specific individual and =
purpose,=20
        and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please=20
        immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, =
destroy any=20
        hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, =
copying,=20
        or distribution of this message and/or any attachments is =
strictly=20
        prohibited. </SPAN></FONT></P>
        <DIV style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
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align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
        face=3DArial size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
        <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
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        <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
        style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
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      <FONT face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><FONT style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt" =
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recipient,=20
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system,=20
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