From NicoleRichardson@bedmanufacturers.co.uk Sat Oct 01 00:28:47 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELYzP-0007xt-57; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:28:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA09683; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe000102ebe990-cm014340013565.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com ([24.156.252.87]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ELZ7L-0000jw-OG; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:37:02 -0400 Received: from r66@localhost by EzT.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:58:27 +0300 Message-ID: <7ezR1iOxF7vdx4IyjqHmaW@equalplanet.co.uk> From: "Anne Cullen" Reply-To: "Anne Cullen" To: xfyzavt@ietf.org Subject: Thousands of academic software titles, 80 % 0ff Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 05:06:27 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: NicoleRichardson@bedmanufacturers.co.uk Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--MudQXPKlI66UvtPf" X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 beS ----MudQXPKlI66UvtPf Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable O
Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
= =
SEARCH

<= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

<= /td>
<= tr>

 = ON SALE NOW!

 1 O= ffice Pro 2003
 2 Adobe = Photoshop 9.0
 3 Window= s XP Pro
 4 Adobe Acro= bat 7 Pro
 <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>5 Flash MX= 2004
 6 Corel Draw 1= 2
 7 Norton Antivirus = 2005
 8 Windows 2003 = Server
 9 Alias Maya = 6 Wavefrt
 <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>10 Adobe <= /a> Illustrator 11
&nb= sp; See more by this manufacturer
   Microsoft
   Symantec
   Adobe<= /a>
  Customers also bo= ught
   these other items...

Microsoft Office = Professional Edition *2003*
Microsoft

<= /table>

Choose= :
 
Lis= t Price:$499.00
Pr= ice:$69.99
You Save:= $429.01 (86%)

=

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupo= n Code: aOajcVaxE
 

Sales = Rank: #1
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires:= August 31st, 2005
Average Customer R= eview:3D"5 Based on 188621 reviews. Write a review.

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
Adobe

Choose:
 <= /td>

<= img height=3D150 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00081I6JI.01._PE= 7_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg width=3D144 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image>

List Price:$599.00
Price:$69.99<= /b>
You Save:$529.01 (90= %)



Availability: A= vailable for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: 6HOiv
 

Sales Rank: #2
System requirements  |=   Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
<= font class=3Dtiny>Average Customer Review:3D"5= Based on 126787 = reviews. Write a review.

=

= Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longhorn Edition<= br> Microsoft

Choose:=
 

List Price:$279.00
Price:$49.99
You Save:= $229.01 (85%)



Availabi= lity: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: w5GXmT  

Sales Rank: #3
System requirements=   |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005<= br> Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based= on 17381 reviews. Write a review.

Adobe Acrobat Professional V 7.0
= Adobe

=
Choose:
 = ;

=

List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99<= /b>
You Save:$429.01 (85= %)



Availability: A= vailable for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: sLHAhneM
 =

Sales Rank: #4
System requirements = |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:3D= Based on 1541 = reviews. Write a review.

=

----MudQXPKlI66UvtPf-- From UrsulaJuarez@janeedesigns.com Sat Oct 01 10:12:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELi6b-0005v7-Vj for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:12:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03824 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ELiEg-0007GI-Ns for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:21:11 -0400 Received: from user-87-248-66-161.promax.media.pl ([87.248.66.161]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ELi6V-0006ei-Au for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:12:43 -0400 Received: from RwF@localhost by rhjs.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:39:34 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Roxanne Braun" Reply-To: "Roxanne Braun" To: shirley.bullock@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95 Adobe, Windows Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:46:34 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: UrsulaJuarez@janeedesigns.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--gD4yqdLagI0d7nPnH" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 l5F ----gD4yqdLagI0d7nPnH Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable T
Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
= =
SEARCH

<= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

<= /td>
<= tr>

 = ON SALE NOW!

 1 O= ffice Pro 2003
 2 Adobe = Photoshop 9.0
 3 Window= s XP Pro
 4 Adobe Acro= bat 7 Pro
 <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>5 Flash MX= 2004
 6 Corel Draw 1= 2
 7 Norton Antivirus = 2005
 8 Windows 2003 = Server
 9 Alias Maya = 6 Wavefrt
 <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>10 Adobe <= /a> Illustrator 11
&nb= sp; See more by this manufacturer
   Microsoft
   Symantec
   Adobe<= /a>
  Customers also bo= ught
   these other items...

Microsoft Office = Professional Edition *2003*
Microsoft

<= /table>

Choose= :
 
Lis= t Price:$499.00
Pr= ice:$69.99
You Save:= $429.01 (86%)

=

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupo= n Code: n5uTp7U
 

Sales Ra= nk: #1
System requirements  |  = Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
Average Customer Rev= iew:3D"5 Based on 15842 reviews. W= rite a review.

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
Adobe

Choose:
 

List Price:$599.00
Price:$69.99<= /b>
You Save:$529.01 (90= %)



Availability: A= vailable for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: 9pK2mx
 

Sales Rank: #2
System requirements  = |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
= Average Customer Review:3D"= Based on 13763 = reviews. Write a review.

=

= Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longhorn Edition<= br> Microsoft

Choose:=
 

List Price:$279.00
Price:$49.99
You Save:= $229.01 (85%)



Availabi= lity: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: 9avptZz<= br>  

Sales Rank: #3
System requirement= s  |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005=
Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based= on 157352 reviews. Write a review.<= /font>

Adobe Acrobat Professional V 7.0
= Adobe

=
Choose:
 = ;

=

List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99<= /b>
You Save:$429.01 (85= %)



Availability: A= vailable for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: VSoSvz
 

Sales Rank: #4
System requirements  = |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
= Average Customer Review:3D"= Based on 1666 r= eviews. Write a review.

<= /font>

----gD4yqdLagI0d7nPnH-- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Mon Oct 03 08:14:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMPD3-0003v9-Ql for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:14:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA24395 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMPLQ-0005I5-Hr for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:23:05 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93C6Vg9014123 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93C6VQI004544 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:31 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93C6S1j018009 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:28 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j93C6Oj10781; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:25 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <43411EB7.1000604@knipp.de> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:06:15 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j93C6Vg9014123 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Scott et al., today, I looked through the EPP related documents that EURid released reg= arding the .eu registry. In this context, I discovered something that I regard a= s a violation of the EPP protocol, namely the mandatory use of certain namesp= ace prefixes for requests sent to the registry. If different prefixes are use= d or none at all (via the default namespace), the requests will likely not be=20 recognized. The XML Namespace recommendation clearly notes that the prefixes only hav= e a proxy function (1., last paragraph). The XML Information Set recommendati= on (2.2, item 3) recommends to use the namespace name instead of the prefix = to identify elements. In addition, the XML Schema recommendation does not re= ly on specific prefixes neither. Finally, I am not aware that in any of the EPP standards the use of certa= in namespace prefixes are declared as a "MUST". In constrast, EPP relies on = the=20 namespace URIs (and not on prefixes) for differentiating object types and= =20 extensions. Unfortunately, EURid (and of course dns.be, which implements the registry= )=20 seems not to be the only registry violating these principles. I know that= at=20 least Neulevel also requires the use of certain prefixes (at least when I= =20 checked it half a year ago). However, contrary to Neulevel, EURid does no= t=20 provide its own toolkit where such deviations of the standard can be hidd= en.=20 Developers, who implement toolkits based on the EPP specifications may fa= il on=20 those registries. They have to take special care to support those registr= ies.=20 This foils the effort to standardize registration protocols. Personally, I am rather disappointed that developers are still unable to = handle=20 XML namespaces correctly and to understand the purpose of namespace prefi= xes,=20 while the standard is now nearly seven years old. Scott, I would like to know whether you share my view that this is a viol= ation=20 of the EPP standard, and if so, whether a sentence or two can be added to= the=20 -bis versions that clearly states that no dependency on prefix names shou= ld exist. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Mon Oct 03 08:42:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMPeb-0000ju-Hz for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:42:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25907 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMPn2-00060v-KB for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:51:35 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93CZHAM014677 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:35:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93CZH6V016767 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:35:17 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93CZG9G006930 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:35:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93CkHea018149; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:46:18 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:35:14 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [ietf-provreg] RE: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:35:19 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance Thread-Index: AcXIEuS6GAhcSAgnSg2U0q6kycRS5wAAzPFA From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2005 12:35:14.0868 (UTC) FILETIME=[E77FDF40:01C5C816] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j93CZG9G014074 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Malorny [mailto:Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de] > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 8:06 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance [snip] > Scott, I would like to know whether you share my view that > this is a violation > of the EPP standard, and if so, whether a sentence or two can > be added to the > -bis versions that clearly states that no dependency on > prefix names should exist. Not really an EPP violation, but it does sound like a violation of the normative XML references that describe namespace requirements. I can definitely add something to the specs (probably section 2 of RFC 3730*) to make that clear. -Scott- * This is the paragraph that might be extended: "EPP uses XML namespaces to provide an extensible object management framework and to identify schemas required for XML instance parsing and validation. These namespaces and schema definitions are used to identify both the base protocol schema and the schemas for managed objects. The specific strings used to associate URIs and namespaces (such as the string "foo" in "xmlns:foo") in EPP are illustrative and are not needed for interoperability." From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Mon Oct 03 09:38:29 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMQWT-0002pQ-0g for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:38:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28793 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMQet-0007Ut-Fk for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:47:15 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93DVOM2006720 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93DVOa7017830 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:24 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93DVNlO007000 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j93DVKj03122; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:20 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4341329E.6000604@knipp.de> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:31:10 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] RE: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j93DVOM2006720 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> [...]=20 > Not really an EPP violation, but it does sound like a violation of the=20 > normative XML references that describe namespace requirements. I can=20 > definitely add something to the specs (probably section 2 of RFC 3730*)= to > make that clear. >=20 > -Scott- >=20 > * This is the paragraph that might be extended: >=20 > "EPP uses XML namespaces to provide an extensible object management=20 > framework and to identify schemas required for XML instance parsing and > validation. These namespaces and schema definitions are used to identi= fy > both the base protocol schema and the schemas for managed objects. The > specific strings used to associate URIs and namespaces (such as the str= ing > "foo" in "xmlns:foo") in EPP are illustrative and are not needed for > interoperability." >=20 Hi Scott, this sounds a bit too weak to me. I would prefer something like: ... The XML namespace prefixes used in the examples are solely for=20 demonstration purposes. A conforming implementation MUST NOT require the = use of=20 these or any other specific namespace prefixes. ... regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Mon Oct 03 09:51:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMQjR-00058d-Ej for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:51:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29365 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMQro-0007ol-ML for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 10:00:39 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93Divqn014878 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:44:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93DivW1007025 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:44:57 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nic-naa.net ([65.99.1.129]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93Diux6012147 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:44:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nic-naa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic-naa.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j93CLuHH011967; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:21:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Message-Id: <200510031221.j93CLuHH011967@nic-naa.net> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" cc: "Klaus Malorny" , ietf-provreg@cafax.se, brunner@nic-naa.net Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] RE: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:35:19 EDT." <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <11965.1128342115.1@nic-naa.net> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:21:56 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams at a VSAT somewhere (or in Portland Maine) Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 > Not really an EPP violation, but it does sound like a violation of the > normative XML references We sort of visited this when (a) we had the schema breakage proposal from the .us operator, and (b) we had the rucus over the do-not-publish binary toggle, which also wasn't expressed in valid XML. EPP is specified in XML. Break it and whatever you've got isn't EPP. my two beads worth. Eric From info@mail.mvmvj.com Mon Oct 03 20:01:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMaFd-0005Zj-Mq for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:01:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29486 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 20:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [58.180.215.143] (helo=mail.mvmvj.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMaOB-0006Xj-O6 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:10:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 30547 invoked by uid 509); 3 Oct 2005 23:12:05 +0900 Date: 3 Oct 2005 23:12:05 +0900 Message-ID: <20051003141205.30546.qmail@mail.mvmvj.com> From: info@mvmvj.com To: provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: $B$R$H$_!J!|!0(Bo$B!0!|!K$G$9(B X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c $B$"$J$?$KL$JV;v$ND>$N$*M6$$MzNr$,;D$C$F$$$^$9!#(B $B$I$&$5$l$^$9$+!)(B $B!TD>(BID 101212$B!!$R$H$_!U$5$s"M(B $B!X$O$8$a$^$7$F"v6a$$$N$G%S%C%/%j$7$^$7$?!*(B $BNI$+$C$?$iOC$7$^$;$s$+!)JV;vBT$C$F$^$9%M!y!Y(B $B"(:#=5EZMKF|$r2a$.$^$9$HMzNr:o=|$5$l$^$9!#(B $B"(EEOC$O%a!<%kAw?.8e2DG=(B($BHV9fG'>ZI,?\(B)$B!#(B http://www.jumpb2.net/?korekore $B$R$H$_MM$N4uK>$h$j$"$J$?$NEPO?A4$FL5NA$G$9!#(B $BMzNr:o=|(B (Refusal Adress) iranai@jumpb2.net From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 05 06:33:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN6at-0005T8-Qr for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:33:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13511 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 06:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EN6jl-0007GI-1t for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95AQ7Wl026312 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j95AQ7MG020010 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:07 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95AQ6Ao006601 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:06 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j95AQ5j16667; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:05 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4343AA51.80403@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:26:25 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j95AQ6Ao010295 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j95AQ7Wl026312 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, digging deeper into the EURid EPP specs I discovered something that is in= my=20 humble opinion a bit more serious than the prefix problem. It looks like = that=20 they took the XML schema files of the domain and contact objects (RFC 373= 1,=20 3733) and deliberately modified them, like adding a new contact type or c= hanging=20 whether elements are mandatory or not. I am not completely aware of all c= hanges,=20 as the schema files are not available yet. While the changes themselves a= re not=20 a problem at all, EURid still associates these new schemes with the IETF=20 namespaces, namely urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:contact-1.0 and=20 urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0. Isn't this something that should reall= y be=20 avoided for the sake of the clarity and compatibility? Technically, it is= not a=20 problem to use any other URI, like they did for their proprietary extensi= ons anyway. Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to start an EURid or whateve= r=20 registry bashing here, but the least what we need is a standard that isn'= t one=20 (for whatever reason). Lessons like SQL or HTML have shown where somethin= g can end. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 05 07:23:28 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN7Mu-0006FO-Gq for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:23:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA16165 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EN7Vi-0000AA-4h for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:32:38 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95BG9oq012437 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j95BG9Wh002215 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:09 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95BG8Id018319 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95BRY8r031788; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:27:36 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:16:04 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:16:08 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Thread-Index: AcXJmZz3nNlQFEJPRfu4CBj5mvzNqwAA+Zeg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2005 11:16:04.0992 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D2DD000:01C5C99E] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j95BG8Id025498 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:26 AM > To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) > > > > Hi all, > > digging deeper into the EURid EPP specs I discovered > something that is in my > humble opinion a bit more serious than the prefix problem. It > looks like that > they took the XML schema files of the domain and contact > objects (RFC 3731, > 3733) and deliberately modified them, like adding a new > contact type or changing > whether elements are mandatory or not. I am not completely > aware of all changes, > as the schema files are not available yet. While the changes > themselves are not > a problem at all, EURid still associates these new schemes > with the IETF > namespaces, namely urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:contact-1.0 and > urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0. Isn't this something that > should really be > avoided for the sake of the clarity and compatibility? > Technically, it is not a > problem to use any other URI, like they did for their > proprietary extensions anyway. > > Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to start an > EURid or whatever > registry bashing here, but the least what we need is a > standard that isn't one > (for whatever reason). Lessons like SQL or HTML have shown > where something can end. More than just "should really be avoided". "MUST NOT be done"! Those URIs are the unique, registered identifiers for the EPP schemas and namespaces. They identify the specs documented in the RFCs. Change the schemas and you have something new, different, and EPP-like that MUST NOT (in 2119 terms) be identified using the same URIs. -Scott- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 06 08:57:23 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENVJL-0007SA-LH for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:57:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA00580 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENVSO-0006Sl-Nr for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:06:47 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j96Cl9VP026902 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j96Cl92E014045 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:09 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from smtp.dns.be (smtp.dns.be [212.190.80.118]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j96Cl8j6028183 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (smtp-new.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D10125302 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.dns.be ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06954-07 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.192.9] (mortimer.dns.be [192.168.192.9]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630CB125300 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 From: maarten User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2-1.4.1.centos4 (X11/20050323) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dns.be Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, The prefix problem is actually a bug in our documentation: no specific prefixes are required. Concerning the IETF namespace URI's : we will use our own URI's for all the schemas that we have modified. Maarten Bosteels software developer DNS Belgium Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se >>[mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny >>Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:26 AM >>To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se >>Subject: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) >> >> >> >>Hi all, >> >>digging deeper into the EURid EPP specs I discovered >>something that is in my >>humble opinion a bit more serious than the prefix problem. It >>looks like that >>they took the XML schema files of the domain and contact >>objects (RFC 3731, >>3733) and deliberately modified them, like adding a new >>contact type or changing >>whether elements are mandatory or not. I am not completely >>aware of all changes, >>as the schema files are not available yet. While the changes >>themselves are not >>a problem at all, EURid still associates these new schemes >>with the IETF >>namespaces, namely urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:contact-1.0 and >>urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0. Isn't this something that >>should really be >>avoided for the sake of the clarity and compatibility? >>Technically, it is not a >>problem to use any other URI, like they did for their >>proprietary extensions anyway. >> >>Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to start an >>EURid or whatever >>registry bashing here, but the least what we need is a >>standard that isn't one >>(for whatever reason). Lessons like SQL or HTML have shown >>where something can end. >> >> > >More than just "should really be avoided". "MUST NOT be done"! > >Those URIs are the unique, registered identifiers for the EPP schemas >and namespaces. They identify the specs documented in the RFCs. Change >the schemas and you have something new, different, and EPP-like that >MUST NOT (in 2119 terms) be identified using the same URIs. > >-Scott- > > > > From project12@optusnet.com.au Mon Oct 10 00:16:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EOp5t-0001y2-Dl; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:16:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29413; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail20.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.201]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EOpFi-0007tG-Hk; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:27:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (webmail03.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.237]) by mail20.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9A4D3Se018466; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:13:04 +1000 Message-Id: <200510100413.j9A4D3Se018466@mail20.syd.optusnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) Received: from ([80.231.4.14]) by webmail03.syd.optusnet.com.au with http (webmail.optusnet.com.au) from ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:13:03 +1000 From: Joseph Made Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:13:03 +1000 Subject: FYI Reply-To: project001@rediffmail.com X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Greetings from the beautiful land of Zimbabwe. I am Joseph Made of Lands, Agriculture, & Rural Resettlement ministry of Zimbabwe. As a member of cabinet and former stuanch supporter of President Mugabe's government I was opportuned to be in the know as to what led to the struggle for farm lands and subsequent fall out of my government with the Western world. As of today I would be more than glad if the case of what happened can be reversed as I have come to see that it was all in pursuit of the selfish interest of one man, the president! After all said and done, it has become obvious that my president like any other African leaders needed to make sure that he remains in power to not just consolidate his fortunes but also to make sure that he bleeds the country to death by siphoning the money meant for developmental infrastrure abroad. Of course with the help of some foreigners who do not see anythng wrong in helping him steal the country blind. I may very well be sounding like a disgruntled and dis-appointed person but the truth is that he has shifted his gaze from the foreigners to his own very people. He sees any suggestions or opinions that does not agree with his own has been that of a sabortuer and the person therefore must be purnished. In other words, we the followers have come to realise that he feels threatened by not just our presence but coupled with the fact that most of us are privy to what transpired and are very much aware of the movement of large sums of money abroad. As it stands now I and many others are of the strong opinion that sooner or later it will be our turn to be flushed out of the composition of members of cabinet and replaced with loyals who obviously have sworn to an oath of allegiance and loyalty via fetish and ritualistic methods. This being the norm does not appeal to some of us and therefore we are now targets to be dismissed/disgraced from service or face possible extermination. I have contacted you on the consideration that I can discuss with you the possibility of placing some funds with you for management purpose either in your existing establishment or other venture to be undertaken after due delibrations and under terms to be agreed upon. I will prefers that this investment be made in your country if and when we have arrived at a compromise. I sincerely appologise for writing you via this means even without prior established acquaintance. But I do beleive that as we get along you will come to understand the reason for my writing through this means. I thank you for taking time to read my letter and hope that you will respond soon with any inquiries that may help you decide on your next line of action. Regards Joseph Made. P.S. please reply to this email address: project001@rediffmail.com From eml_6_01@yahoo.co.jp Mon Oct 10 07:42:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EOw3I-0007e0-MG for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:42:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02976 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200510101142.HAA02976@ietf.org> Received: from pl891.nas925.o-tokyo.nttpc.ne.jp ([210.165.126.123] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EOwDA-0001vW-Qf for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:52:58 -0400 Received: (qmail 13775 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2005 10:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.0.1) (192.168.0.66) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Oct 2005 10:47:34 -0000 Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCNlgxbCVVJSclaSRLNihOTyQ3JEYkLyRAJDUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJCQhKhsoQg==?= From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJVolbSVzGyhC?= To: provreg-archive@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.22.02 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $BA4$/CN$i$J$$=i$a$^$7$F$NJ}$G$9$h$M!)(B $BFMA3$N%a!<%k<:NiCW$7$^$9!#2>L>$G%Z%m%s$C$F8F$s$G2<$5$$!*(B $B?M@80l2s$-$j$N1?$@$a$7$,$7$F$_$?$/$F%a!<%k$7$^$7$?!*(B $BC/$KN.$lCe$/$N$+J,$+$i$J$$%a!<%k$r=q$/$H$3$m$GAw$C$F$_$?$N$G$9$,FO$$$F$^$9$+!)(B $B%Z%m%s!":#EY7k:'$9$k$s$G$9$,!&!&!#0l$D$@$12r>C$7$J$/$F$O$$$1$J$$$3$H$,$"$C$F!&!&!&!#(B $BC6Fa$5$s$,%?%P%3$r$d$a$J$$$H7k:'$7$F$/$l$J$$$C$F8@$&$s$G$9!*(B $B$b$&6X1l(B2$B=54VL\$K$J$k$N$G$9$,$*8}$,NT$7$/$C$F!&!&!&!#(B $B$=$l$G$J$s$+%U%'%i$,0[MM$K$7$?$/$J$C$F$7$^$C$F!"$=$NAjeC#$7$?$iC6Fa$5$s$b4n$s$G$b$i$($k$@$m$&$K!*!*0l@PFsD;$J$N$G$9!#(B $B$H!&!&8@$C$F$bl=j$r65$($F$/$@$5$$$M!*(B $B$*JV;v!D$:$C$HBT$C$F$^$9"v(B $B$*JV;v$-$?$i%Z%m%s$N Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:14:07 -0600 From: "Ann Stevens" X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.493 (Entity 5.098) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: poverib-web-archive@ietf.org Cc: pping@ietf.org, pping-admin@ietf.org, ppm@ietf.org, ppm-archive@ietf.org, pppext@ietf.org, pr@ietf.org, presentations@ietf.org, proceedings@ietf.org, proto-team@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org, ps2.slim.incentive@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org, pwe3-admin@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: (-2.175) BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 196.206.147.216 X-Scanned-By: SpamAssassin 3.379618, File::Scan 0.10, Archive::Zip 1.93 X-Recipient: Subject: Last chance for lower rates Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_50073933==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_50073933==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
on stardom it canny not roof not tetanus the bouquet may adrenal or damage ! complement or trodden but gear or enid ! slugging see hathaway not flat Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_50073933==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="beggary.3.gif" Content-ID: <6.0.0.73.0.60610071675769.00180608@canton.hotmail.com.4> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="beggary.3.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh5gHOALMAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZmZlmzGYzzDMz MzMAzAAAACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAADmAc4AAAT/EMhJq7046827/2AojmRpnmiqrmzrvnAsz3Rt 33iu73zv/8CgcEgsGo/IpHLJbDqf0Kh0Sq2CDo+sIvs4ZLaPCthKLpvP6BPWu95sLe+0fE6v T9ttTZyyt/v/gIE4eF0AWFyFEn2KYRMNiA2CkpOUlRiHXAd5homLAHsNkY6ilqWmp2iEmoiZ jHCNAKEUsqi1trdMqptisBOgpLHAuMPExTm6iZxen72uErTPwsbT1NVqXGBdmFle2VmMiM+Q s9LW5ufoO9Dp7O3u7/Dx8vP09fb3+Pn6+/z9/v8AAwocSLCgwYMI02DKtgzGug1apOyqMubC okflhmCcE5GFJz+q/0R8VPFAgYyHIUr+GYkBZRGXIFQWkakDZouJLEKGYImC5gubHXzS4WkB aBCjHIQGUWoDaQqcK0JuS/aKi7gHobBeBcbKJICuGaZ2Y8Ws5LerWtGSAvsVmwRMyw6BWebt bNEsWbU+4hIpYscL29hgy7SlYtlmwWaNy4DI61RtrBpWtbsXL1qtfmU2DjuYW92yoPdmzUjB Z9eFrSxaBWe4MqnKmLV0BCuWU+qbZresagjVmeJI0KCZLjyBqbIJWPq8GfMrg6zhEpRuOrR7 D09astY992q8gtRCzHt5Cg7Mack8a6ZTxRCHvPa+3L1+lc9Z8AHlYeKA0ks6uvzhOn0h3v83 zY1CTnQq5VaabsgV0ttTuUHGynp8IOaScBMS598l6+HHjG8PwQYfBtIlo4p1iB2Y2Hvzbcgh IoIVBl4jHlYQ3ISknZZIeiZSCM5q7pU3YosuanDigB8mmZgHNAEYoWSqVQhieTgW2ZaO3FDw IArJmbXbB+OVIxx9RRo3kYf6wcJiNERaUCJvDnaB4gahYCckkWbuGKeMY/mmpIFsBvWfAuhB BieUvrX3Wp0HajZoB1326Ut+NKrZXwVN0nfek24gqeSabmpKppZZHhdDpKam+sqnYq4laqYc wolmpQZmt2ibeJpEk3r2HWZXS4wuyWaCecalJ4NJ1qiisMwuWJz/SWLxGqUzQTaqK6zdccLg rKAFKuizzqLaqZSsrngnrsP1aN+WJYhbmx5niejIYmxl+GIrn2WTzbyv8fXcZsXJFG1nVBHF rLwIgjHqW43tOaNsBJIVy2IIkzgYfYTAKOBgsKVVMcT/ZctwQ5+xhtdijAHMlrjskaXvahP3 y9eVf9EWWYM+JtSCwU7Zwe4RP+ss9KQwt5QWJYFFQd3QTDft9NNQRy311FRXbfXVWGet9dZc d+31PQQvDIJhp5ZKxF8zbASRyECgjZDBQcAdU3wpyH0NokuJzYHd3pKo90x/q8A3k4E/MTgP h0NENwqJixC0Dmy3HIJRkedNQ+MaVC4D/2rGwvhypTB3DNzMCG7GlgWoPWyXN/OSnpKGA0uI NyOtkS6aaDR3V1tt+UJMJ70AF7n7zaz/GC/KFwSPpVk5+0rp8xNjpXbmmjaWuoT4Sly80dKn pbxbtt02Q5e6SRuen+QVNWSL0L345aTwA9o34SrxGmBVfwZqJ7piF6rerJRyjpDaRyReqetP +Ekf9ZwFLupAhVuf4o/iwPUsZMjKU3LbyENgNbIGzQ43fDIfYvqgQHlhy16xqlA40FclEQhM XffjBbUoJop/nc47enoM81xGK+dYpnTKc8yEuuAj/ODoVguk4IbYBcECfctKmwrhEO9TtPwJ EFNBxNnNaEA+Q/950IokvFX6sFW4LyYKFmFMwQsPFUNyvUGBwaBF5fzXoRSlqQMb6c4acYg3 ZcmPcqIKV/P8tJweNiuJ/Ovi+1SDxhRdYB0cbNPjQOglEa6qPeNQIFgIiLpkzMkVbzzX6zo4 Mh41745wrJMoOEkqY/0PSXcEFjkIuMeRHbCQCJSe/PzGwCUOMpcfas2legkdVL3SjQHUACQf taFNHYqLspmLWEpGtEfW0F/C0EzwcKgxX6FITcgzT0feJRezqXCH0ZMeEoGYp5vxjocQc2Q6 vaeyzQyvm91y3mWO5ibw5Y5QW2zZCssChopZDHwr8xLDNEbNfD4SZQ0LmRDxSYaeae7/axil h2vW5raMevSjIA2pSEdK0pKa9KQoTalKV8pSQEyypTCNqUxnStOaCg0uC53LxtCJsI1eSWHs LKNNh7q5HnlRch8Clbf8oiErEfWpNpDWg1BZpY+RyZ9QzWpUD7glGc1PWGOymFC1StZ2cXWQ Xj1YsITFyYuW9a0ciN0OP/innmLzdKebyJnkCde+lgBzfg2sEsgm2MIa9rCITaxiF8vYxjr2 sZCNrGQnK4EAFOCyBLhsAQYQhMwS4AKe/QMBPlsBy3K2spo9LQAEoFkBbIC1l3WtBAag2QBM gLaXte0GQisE3Or2tgX4bQh4uwPWypYCtP0tboM7gcwWgLRH//DtBZLrAtYSIADWFW4PBDDa C3AXuicwbhGcC17Lbha1BBAAazm7XgHQ9rgWaO97AfBe7jK3vpnVbgVGq94hBCC/pYUvfZlL ge5W4Ls8gG0B4CvdAasXwPxFcBDEW1kAW4C6LTAtADQsBANbwMPhXTARIuxh86pWALbVsHgp 7F0Ri5e6ML4vgTEA4t7OOAMYbi54dVzczbpXxLPNbZBtS10D13i7QB7ydG+8Aus+N8WavewA YKve2OI4yjKOcgB822AAgNi5mM2AeaM8gDFLebVRFvCBsfxjzNZ2ubklL3FBS9r+bvi55y3t eVec5Pi6WMQxJrKM9dtczUIXzE829P+ZMWDm0yrYyhrI8XKVq2UJgHnHJcayai3QaAk8us9r di12dUtbCwfay6Q9coENLWZFO5rNsHWubB8t21ILGbiERoFlM8vZXau3ygR475ZBDdxf2zez xs5vfv87Yw9HWMKcfu6vE53eaZeZtlPONZqnrN73IpvZP072go8N7fiSdwK7zjO6n4xm17LY z+4G9KAHLGhtf9fOz753rNebAWP72MfdJjZyZ4xdC28Y2cfV935J62tr99va7Q24miu73OPa mtTzNvKOD/xrVXsaz7yOeLhxO4D5DjvbQV6wwXPcguzeWbWm5fPE6Y3uH1N62PXmsaUPvXHU nta0Zk5tu1//m2TjBhrOtUW1u2fu6Qd/1tfqvvN1Px5vpsuc5qdm+YfB++WnsxvFjNb0sGM7 6kgzmeVaV7WBg77oaJN57AsuO6Ml7mAMn1rjGkB0z9GL5ykXfdybxS6Q3z1fSTN5BRzm8Muv vmTtGh7nNN+5zlEd9p8HXtrGtu27W5zwuHtW3sbG994XLvmgW37qVB86Bq6e9XlnoOsF9vqm L9BwfmO3zUxX8sCFm/aerx3zvyZ07c97e9xa/c+uRXrOi5zq0T/b41LvO4uNy3jCuz7yLki8 umMOeIFj/+K4Tm6Xnc3zfot9+3sG/MynL28AP57yHLCvtJvu8l0Ll/GcH3rrc/56/677/+Ub oH1+J2rhZnaOd2PiR2DdBXsA6HO0l2fcR4DzRXvLVWYb9mBAdnfN13+TF22fN4ATQH3IR3Uv dn3YBQNj9mpRdl1jJ2u0h2iex2YH52bBpXerBYOj52/shWVTN3YWSIFiN4OyxWxpZoOvxV8U kIJ3RmYbVoG/xWJwZ4FECGRTmHuX5ml692mzt2aKFmxBuGSVpnwVBmk3OH9etoJotoK59mie hXQ/CIRvOGBCVoVYiFlWd2mqZl6f91xuqGBgJmokB3dghnHaFl7q9YSZV1mHeIhzZ2yK6IiP eHurFXr0B4kawGGh91u3V4i3F3w1l4SUGHq5F4Jq5omTaP+KnfiEgQeKjPiI8NWJr2WJoniK rfhwixgAnViLnEaJF2iJvchxCceLmagBmYdiuQh2l4iMNWdnvQhfvuhdswiNo3aIx4iLwYeK jJiKv/aJ52BmqIcKckdZWpOI4liO5niO6JiO6riO7NiO7viO9/AYdAUONfAXL6VMrDBMWDRW P/FDB9VRLtAzVgCQxDA9ThUCS4MbrrQ3fMUC2XKPf6SPvVQTNdQfjpI2wiCQHrBXN+BWK6CR PQCSHwCRcZVDDGkDD/lLV/RVEwQEQBFJP5GREjmSddSR/MgCIqkOM4mQKuk4OZQ0+uRDM3M7 9IRQ9nQbQAkC6eNTIAMuWpA6qyD/O3UBOlZBlPx0SMQEUBrzTuGgML/yUP6YPNG0UKUClNvz GUS5k70kVwzBSMyjFq1zNPWyTdyUJZ9jPHzlUz8VMDukla3wLlVRO65DKhSlDJ9kTSqiQY/w KsykKiQ5T9IgRwlCN7vCDTzSKyjiIfuzLLzkH+rSIwBkRTaijxFCJv4jQ/EzQ8Chli5iP3FC V+ezLMu0IKwEGJ0QMX6kPskTSPNhQAspUEklSmZkSoTRSCupm3wZUUq0C4+5lPSyOApiRh3U BpmZIpvJkpgyKJ85IVT0K7F0nNSjIORUk0QjMTnJQK7JJ/BiIygDSfaCVbbZTUYkMbIUKlhU P1NkkkgV/0qcSUprkEOHiZwCiitlIh/M2ZOIGQ2aBJ1oc6CY2UgjoUqjmRTaeSindBbfWZ+K kxunqSrAlKAlUEvKoEjrGZG7lC0E2aG5SSflIBRuoVf6OS38uUv+SUSuFKATCiiz+SyR5KD3 WC2BcpHsY6BUYUqSwgw1IqEuFB++2SBN1JC2Ep6F0aGXCUrJRC2smZ2kdBwsg1TespTrMx+1 aSp54EfX0aK86UweFKOrEpz9KY/h4yVTKZSW8TH1ZD0BlZB+Apa2c1fxBFRtURdwwjzduRoN hRKUAzD3lD1dSTC/Y5ERsimD0TmSYRhoiTxYeZ8RMZ7I4paUgU38kpzaBJ+EGf9N9NlQd+GP m/Sniyo+5bkvBrUSDRk3s9qf+nCe8FgH+8IBBpmrvvqrwBqswjqsxFqsxnqsyJqsT6WnJABY yjo0nuCskIKgHyGtz5oQ0Vqrd+MB1aqt1woQnEOWtwkz2yMvaZkyfdklepIa27On35oQJNpK 7ppGOipBnYmfR2VG3fquTEOi75KtipGP2Jmd4vmacXqb08KvOqNIKjpCvQAT5iEj0PKaDZuw CosQDKufuGSlajWwBCtE66KxV3qxQ1NO0tQwdPGVglmnmLqb+DpX24AshGWtJFuzNnuzOJuz OruzPNuzPvuzQBu0Qju0RFu0Rnu0SJu0Sru0TNu0Tvv/tFAbtVI7tVRbtVZ7tVibtVq7tVzb tV67WAbgAGLrAAsQtmN7tmgrtgmQAQsgtgagAW2btmnLAADAAHNrt2hLtx6QAGrLt2oLAH7r AGsLt2f7tgAQtw7wtnZLt3jLuGfruA7AAHibtgsAAGaLtpXrt4MbuGebAJwruBKAuG8btwYg uhnQuBLQuKh7uZV7uY8rt5V7AZ+bAKRruhZAuofrtpMbuXXLu7srtpP7u8ALu7M7AXw7uP8Q tgzguXy7AHy7vJ47tgvQttMLuhhgAHZruNdrt8zLvZLbvQyAAN/ruZIrvtCbAJL7AaUruOtb ts1Lu9Z7AW3bvYk7v+ibuOYL/wDma77Mi77hW777G73L+7bK+7zNa7nzKwHNS73zawDw67yj K7j3awDYm7gVjLwWML7pu7/7W8DNW8CR+74hHL2xawEOTL0JQMHZe8Hbm7i5u7YI4L8JgAD6 u8Hl+7wOHLkgvLxka8DRK7bO67kJDLjx2w/Kq70pHLYlnMJMzL4pTLjaiwFta7gOXLd6a8VY LAEIQMPpq8U0/AGae7wfjMBFPAFDbLnwO7gVXMGM28YUsMVZ3MVKTAFJTLaAa7jHKwEOnMNM jMfWO8RrXLsufAHlq8Xp28WSe8QK3MMUbMd1vMRRbAF5HLpuO8VsO7yDnMWp67t0O8dz/Mh3 PMcKPP/JaOzHGMwPokwBSpzKRHzK8hu5mfzK62u4XYzFh3zFtywCYSzB8UvKFGDJv5zJU7y4 tnzFFIDIesvKemzHxgvLGOzLrUzJ2jvFghzJE1DLxZy6DJDKoszNZKvMshu/1XzJsJzJ2EzM 6evJzGy567zKjlzGzezK+gDOrlvC0bwBbZu9hDu2tPy4XDy2uAzQugzL3EvK0CzNFQDMuYu9 ktvQNfy42hzR7GzPy2zPz1vE0DzJCk3NBB3Lx2zMuWzF3hy73iy9HEDK+QzL1mzGHa2959zQ 6WzHIz0B9UzGnRvPAKHOQAzCFg3PCc2++izFghvU31vIVuy/17y82Ly3ghv/t9GLvAe90D89 zYlbvsSsv/0b0nK8zjS9zh98xhn9x8Jcvw4gvm6LAS8dx9vczszszTxM0eGMvG1r1h4dzItr ziD9v7yrziXs1geMxsw7xFGdD6JMwp8cxYPN0oV7yRSMvCGNxXAc0ZENAmLct73s0wqN0NJ8 yLybwW6cxfTs1WgL1WWs0WM9y7hLyHmt1jM90V2duStdAShN1nXN0jGs0GlNzHz92rz9xJJs vYmND3/tziTNzMH9whPM2BVgw3pby4+91BtwvOubwgk8xiYc1MPswgnM3JqczaAt020t2s4L 1qVtvWv8wgt93heQv1bMxc1NtwesyK5d0fSdAbOt/8K1jdC4vdr5u9v1Pd+XS9pq7NsAwblr TblE/LdCjcm1jbiDjLqLK7ySO7f/Hc6Wvbbru9MZUMFji+GTu7YQTrd0Dbw0TNfh67omzboJ Xs6gG7ibO9qW++G5W8n5/dCR+8Um/sWBu83LDMTsjOAW3uGim9nBzOAcDry9y8mLDLxUnOJy ywAO/s2LLM/80L9v27/MS8BZvuFZzrzX278TEMMzjNVbjOUzLOb9S8Py/eWe29hUvOUa4MBe rsdzLuYljuNpHuaeq+NmjsdtDthM/Ody7tuD/ueATueei8YbEOGdbed0bOij7NtmTuAVUOhJ 7OVVzOaBDsN57uiTDeeR7v/nWN7YVk7TlL5Ypz4QMVzmX/y1rs40MB3rsj7rtF7rtn7ruJ7r ur7rvN7rvv7rwB7swj7sxF7sxm7rcP3qyr7szN7szv7s0B7t0j7t1F7t1n7t2J7t2r7t3N7t 3v7t4B7u4j7u5F7u5n7u6A60cNqPLesChJXuSsOmHQA3cBQDNAvvO9ChYFKr9Q4D947vx/CT xKM9A6WhNjQbyxMnEDMWK4SqAG8EA3NByIRH45AujVmjkDEnK/rwQ0BH3LmrqalMq8lOY+lL 3bQJnwTyHI8EdPRBlsrvI0+gbaKmZOpJxqlCK8/yOQSaGDSyyLkdzqIjv4nyxrnxOe8DcMqV RfPV7gE7On1Bly0Ss0QknxMSlB579LfgkUqZpVgfCFDf9WAf9mI/9mRf9mZ/9u+YlP14KQSJ 9mbwmFtPoSbw726fEwhqAkih9SFf9x2/royKob7DopJ5LdxxlDAClb7C90QQILuQJj6vPmGV Kzz6TA40G8nhBBkTGSWToT+/StsLcFzpoXR/+SPwHVCS8obEp97IBrovm6fvraQPA6bvpDfP +TkqR4RfoGfdy1EZ+zWAU+KqOpGKTmCZxdbAPFM5sYcfUA7l+8z8lqAf/dI//dRf/dZPUhEA ADs= --------------AttPart_50073933==.OLA-- From marie.r.saunders@aveintl.com Wed Oct 12 04:30:38 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPc0T-0008UD-WD; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:30:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06031; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eu85-86-0-112.clientes.euskaltel.es ([85.86.0.112]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPcAd-0002KX-C9; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:41:10 -0400 Received: by 10.11.98.7 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:30:20 -0600 Message-ID: <071q304w.1131820@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:30:20 -0600 From: "Vicky Sewell" User-Agent: Apple Mail (2.728) X-PGP-Key: mWgDqe7k2KHSuMP2qZmc8eJT0kaQdp42hhQqDoYyW4EkED9qJ86Z6dWC73V37G6X== X-Load: 82% MIME-Version: 1.0 To: postmaster@ietf.org Cc: poverib-web-archive@ietf.org, pping@ietf.org, pping-admin@ietf.org, ppm@ietf.org, ppm-archive@ietf.org, pppext@ietf.org, pr@ietf.org, presentations@ietf.org, proceedings@ietf.org, proto-team@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org, ps2.slim.incentive@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org, pwe3-admin@ietf.org, pwot@ietf.org, pwot-admin@ietf.org, pwtmzl2tpext-admin@ietf.org, qmda-intercept-asrg@ietf.org, qpcaorpsec@ietf.org Subject: Last chance for lower rates Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_33871351==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d890c9ddd0b0a61e8c597ad30c1c2176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_33871351==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
it platonist may jon a bengal see gaulle and boss , compacter ! studious some fodder not director ! pullman be tetrahedron ! defunct or philharmonic may wee Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_33871351==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="melville.1.gif" Content-ID: <2.0.0.51.0.49809829468200.56443680@predatory.hotmail.com.8> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="melville.1.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh5gHOAMQAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zZv8zM/8AM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZzJmZ mZlmzGZmzGZmZmYzzDMzMzMAzAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAADmAc4AAAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrfIalKw2K9FCINkEaVuCSMpeVPc8SmjZIrBXDMButxI5BdLWSxoidncUVoWG h4iJQglgeV8Uf10UDQ2SdHVrJWEklZCAJ3ZwAHKfbnuPWYBYX41fEpGpgVmsWgmMkLSiiru8 vb67kCOUAG6fAFwkbpejsyXFKqGchCKvy3KMfMSTwtqlwSRdn3sj37/m5+jpRuVt29TIIspj cs7uKWmysstxew10z8ncgTnxR8S4QMbUKVzIsCGLb2DEAGTWiNylgeECJjyxJ2Odaa9QsJsY z93BEv4M/2Yb6LCly5fpBpU0hvEghUvjsIgiyRFCgoxYqOka0UVjPXHZ7t0RNhSm06dQl+Ci 120Ey4w3+d0xxtPEOFMJggIoSnCnvZkGm45xRHZs1qhw48r98a1BtoksTWGhM9VMua6astkR C2ajSqOI23LKdtBuG8NzI0uevIId2nfCajHjuqmqipN6ZL21epYnwIrJCh5L6kYt5dewJ1v+ yObnNNG2sqBhg4WmhGU6wel+d9B2UlnHaRP1JFoc7y58KsWeTj3uFmOCbl4nbapz90mD2GUX TkIPPtLNRG+yvdVgeDFd9lWfT18dK599WI1iZW3/l/L83ffFRtj895gJ94HCCv9XCeYHQUIC fvEPZPVVaOGFGGao4YYcdujhhyCGKOKIJJZo4okopqjiiiy26OKLMOKgWokGplBjEj9RWMhP 8sUYRXd2caGFe67pEAuNJxGUJBJHKgKWjzvWddNeJfXowoyf6biEdL7caNVKyTGpZRXy3IAl lDlQOZYrwoQJw5lqjJkEl714GQeYTcB5SJk26IlmDW4IBsklv60QloxyxnAoDG7W2eiXeSaq wqM+8CkEpTJg2iFLx8DBCAt+vinpC6GCUqQidpahaRClsuDGEZYC8aoOdJZ42m2FsreRIGfo lFWhH5Ujh0epxcIesD8Nq16vXPwjiT9bhFVbHvAwM07/UnagQokkK21jigndhZUKMoOZ8axV nxhoG7DCfbNuWIAMa1i41PhVnCSFFqYNSFoYU8uQggDy7WayxBcQHQG79Ucs1VJDh7lHSjKJ rgXfRDF7uWlWYkhuCcxGQTyWoJoko3QiBpf/mXFZG4VWI9CUxuZBTSkfewxfr7wFMxgxMlOp r1VsmFGJRByrNusYd45yRo71Kn1yVj//F3KtdQj8Kx/fyvzRRtMYyHFht8LnTUngejuJGURH hysgJD94sNM8+7QNl5YanMlHZM/MM3slg/ybyj2f6mFvdg3k9ndnjYWdKFAvNdqZN9YK8m0q K95HLF7SSTflzIpReTts25XQ/69jI5iJPBxDnZQ7qv2X3WiBXLNaN0crbfo3M+Yheeh51w40 JsdcEtTRqlFdZfCZ7ffRyWG+NWNWsyKuSm1bhXKy4B5C8lsx1KswY62qa2IM5Mftrg1TeldV UOZwbI4+e4k7fcaNpOcjcnRBP5gHNkmn3zr+KagEILLCK20ITxeBS99+zFe8afhuJm6zx6uI 9wnjGfAYnDHgJH4DO4PQ4XkSceBt0Hc+Z9DDgiNaxTvGV6hhgANbjFOFt85Qja2hZG7ayVkI f7emQCwtJziUFgmPprIHaqIgKrQd3BRzQY6B5UnKM8gntFbEg7BLeb2JIlFyhSXUfYx6udHh EkXYo//gEKyHz0iiBZ/xM629Yn5LkmLT5FimGg6DTnasBLOAp6K31IpiN9wDveSgtkHxLBXQ CSQXm+WeiZFrFutSofX2xUHd9MsUlWxY8pblLE8MZzkL++Ico0GKUAjikFfc1yOC1K9DNgmU wYEEI12JrDXY4R2pxCB6QJMKMMitM8vZhh5YQ8AOWutByCCFwmxxLnpRDF8hNOSf6PM8w7hQ IWJRYhWwN81uVuEgEalHQ6iULCukypvo3BE0TaA1hgzTCrFKpzznSc962vOe+MynPvfJz376 858aEuAPyukEgf7AoEpalazaCVASjecYrZTBznpgCoUCYaI9wKjI7qaEijb/1ES3kJI0FUWs HdzCogMt6Q46ARnpoNQHvmwIQz96BDO2xgZZpMtLfZBTnsavh1CI4zkCBaWd9sComeBYDXra A6EigakscFsLoHqYoBr1BVKdQVZZkJIYGRFWI3yTLK30Aqoa6aor/SkKAAOKnzo1CW/FAVtd pdYQ6RGRTUpYHN4IP0o0q5DAetanCAmuV2wDX8SZ2LkMldc3eG44r6yYNNnDh35FA7FeMexJ MOuWcrwxslqZ1pFyqtdjdVY3pcVX4rLjE4mxEJg+5IIMf3UvjpLjLq7tLGIt28pnkiE1p+NW YgkxLPkwjRmcRY9mW3skysbDsMwaaRVkpy+fcbGy/8HYnghl+JuaKTE+XkuIHcLyIKvtUG8h W0FbdOIXnHUtftlCzSv8covthQM6MdXEKZqB33H0F7v77WBrMjJfoJgtD0VpDSlaAS0ET2MW fiFQK4xDiu78rCQBZmYxAWuwebxDWzrpBB8awd6iQCcYDJaG9m5S4MbpbhWoGcNhuRDhQPp1 gw5mm4PFteIBx/UJ7vMg8uw3o+gFkRjKrJzM7qCL2rHyvNKLKq7aJ8ztmiCnZIEYbcOIuLDO ThuZ/NdSUAPV79w4DVk0z9mg55NbXYe08SNqT4tSkY1wSs5v+Up1vaK28RGiKJJc83Uk9sN5 7VnLIZziHfZRXbIQFQ0DRP/mFkasWVvsedKHCDLyJAiSDCYWa4e1GiPrejSBQk+EMeDUX6q8 ssyki1+GfVqsFTwgPm+R1g/CNVJarZV+nKLWaf61T8IJOn7c5xYIizMQafJgN3FqdmoqjlqX TZqtWQLFwtZwGAAzkTUYDCB9CdOtbssR8Pj1PmzrsWeCNZspaLrKU8xGO+so3h8CsDy5Sk6Z XGe2D7YwXo9qSyI7RjCV2pAZYsiu89ITi2ySo4XjaDghJJ4WXhNOkIZUWaA/hkxmcVBQHNcJ fJQNaiR+o90i/4jaRuwuod60NdwlTidwyPFBxefR9VgdDU8t76+cadwVvzIyWuO5Myg8hHcZ lG7/6O1DJnSnsxR7J7tBCT/7elLS6SGsfs2233RbXSAUita+8PG6JXlBEF2ebWYi2g48qAeH rQyNcNeOObGngdDDzZhu8H7a8zQSjmLXg3wk1nImn5adQ1Jzsj0ezGC4/TsiGxJEr/Od74QJ XwFTFuJfrZlBzJwQlidYEju8kM/N9ILLa0KD7rTVwu2H0QMqEJKjg5+qJUNCJ3hQrfNzCWwg TD+FS0iBhFejBcVOvDVy/fEXA/Bd7b5w2NKPgrbqe9HVYfeLkSr0y5Au4Ggf+8rPfilch5/w Y1/8ww9+7kURfv7ZhbxSNX4guBGPUaEqZ/NiHTdpyv+l1lVDfYUCvEJW//1XgDbwSQaYgAZ4 TQrYgA74gBAYgRI4gRRYgRZ4geiQXuBgf06HVjhCehm1f3yUURyIKh7IIYLAGJpEBFBEDv8X BXpVHhfRMO9yAjX4XCN1gwiigVfQbgLogzYgL+ykYuy3gqonVKdHIrYBDiJoUsb0gkD2N76j JodzL4dUWFfIM1n4E1mIEiUYA5tDgCOoA69ACY5RHrfhGDd1fWA2BanSKiDyaFy4BPEEh07w B59SD8ZkILXHE30oTP8AiLw2FmKIA2G4AihUA1NiTZ9EZfCRGYVoBG/4hRmSRblkBHX4hYsy BBJyeWpSHuKAb5ogiiOkMqU4FMYUgrlXHiS0A/+TwIA8Ixbgoz8epnqQwk6UmCG+lItyZUx2 iItFgEnIN2Tg8FzSkBrSMIf6UIT1EIk4NRRHU2pNyFWzNDOzcoZ3go1apAR0kiq1xyIncSyy 9g7ygXa09FiidjzWYnCCxXJApEniuDPNsljmkkuaN4cd5EIOt48j1Bv9CB7HSHeEkFq2FSyL lI/Tklifty04CF+MhEnGtVhq2DXHYQY38jmiYY/QNXPCE1E/sU6Vp2U04YwgYjQvU3QWgRJL sz8naTklJA+V44cfcxPh5ZKIERFaowx+g0mECC5ywzZ8oY3Y0o/MyBT7uDCc0GRQc116oYxa aDmAkxzSMTDRmIbexYP/c1gQLNlSfsVMVcImX4KRN5KVG3E3NZRlTJkeHNONEPcwL1I8ooBE cNBBZ8FApSMPj2NnHDd5yAAnu8NG0LIdoTJYWHceXbVu2jgR72cPi4kd+pYVoyEWqRhSs5VK QVaV79Met1d30iUMoaNmr1iKfgWKJgRacGk/kflgydZ0/aNLMXKaRDE9KTkG9baBLikWeDk+ BOJYrhmbVxaX8bIHoOdlgzliyTEamxh0JXNE6NIpzSksu5lwnmZMz2A0VDFEqJY3wPNV6lNB +eWFvfmS9mAx47kM1WkYsDkrnCZkJdSNSfGLJJKTUvI06IgGN7OG1jVyaGFHq6ULaINkQBUQ /2KkF0JxMmzjJhODTPswGtgiQ/e2ljmRM/cmSdDYOPEmRyqpDXwQEg6XekYWiMl2n7aXmZVl nKkBL0qlnfrCh8IklfbGToIhRm3EGBU0De5JDlNEktkDD+IYTASKhobUo6h0S4L1LAP3dt3S GOnBMtX4ORRzSoHUmUNmHlQ2WX5UjZOUkfIRd/igeUy6MPZyReFyLmswcguzbYv1pavAm0Da mbXjpetYWFdHhE+nGVInXLUgjMkUC5eIgWt1pToqK42Siox1IrConX46GQCRok2Qh2TIi9Vx qIlKHQM4qZZ6qZiaqZq6qZzaqZ76qaAKqgFAAAPgA6Naqk4gAAUgAP8FmIgMYRuBCiBQ4aou MAAHcKu3agCsygIBcKuougO9egC/GgMFgKu3uqoyIAC3uqtHEADFegDMKgLKaqwHUADD6gPK GgC7YEZO0Vqx+mFPwa0wYA8CQADVOgDmCq28aqvXigMBwK4i0KvRugKqegCk+qzaCgPlqq5I 8K62agAlMKrnOgC2egAGkK/Yyq+KQKvq4ELx1AJJ6BAMyxHL0KuoqqztigLC+gMbCwDKOq/0 yq+2CrIs8LFMUAAFcAIdKwLmmrI/IK+8MLHogCyEugLnNE7TSIwi0LEm2wIrywMr+6sCkLEl 0LO2irAv0LNJoLQk8LMAYK4kmwMHkK8uqwP/Q0sCVbtUOStR33oDNYtVJ4gDFamKU4UTJkCt BYC0KuC0OsC2AGCtJUutBDADTHsEcKuy12qxQLCrAwCwO3C3ANC3hri1MfC1A2W4LXCzwWiV ZPsQZlsC9kqwxeqy06qwBVusGVuvG+uskwsAzrqsI3C5PHuwgWusaksCGEuwBmCvInC5+SoA BvCsaSut0Fq5AcC51Tqt2oq50loA6aqr8ZquBFC5BaurWQu57Rq7rYurQru6wPu5Iluttzq3 qGus89q3z4quvhq6x6qtBbus1vu00zsCBFAABkC6pqJcXiePI2FYlflYzUBYGOMMi/WRcKcL 48GF/XJJZZqRp5cs/9UipElppM21WK4VLTdYj4TiSdsgW7JUDpP0TkMRtNBqsdgrApirve2q rKQKvtVqrpyrvayaweZaqrrrsbE7AFFLu8xarAEAuwS7sZervdT7sbZqrdPqu1MLwihswrka w1MbACm8rJhbrypMtADAtr4rvvfKur16rwBbwtX6ttM7AMUarapqAARbAsLbt+e6uqwKw/AK uzicxVtcwuwarMKqsBkKVL2RRmC0duRFluwZXlEpMk8TLOSFMo8ZTeQ4NFODMx8klTEDaq9m DZtQXb+SxyXER4EMUTTUe3MDRuQ0Q+nDoGf7qxbrr87ruSurxJQ7AO+qrgJQub6qtztbqv8C m69aHLfM+rHlWrAmzMNv67eVu6ujHMYeO7Ui0MoCu6s2zMvv+sKsW76eu8JOu8krC8Lfu6zp OsVZHK9OK7gmEM27rK0mG8vbCwCt3Lp+q8a5GrgGMLcrPJWniEUE9JibaRJ8gQdZmpTDQURL 8TaNbEavc1zbqKI4Y5tJqZ1+RDL1nDNipyf8xjwjqC7KpLOZPALyKsTCar67zKxsq7wkALO7 TLAEW8oKy7O8zM1IPAJKm63T2rcX29HUrKyTm68Wfc29XNK4DK1HWwJX7LbIWwJHi8rXzK4Y fbvPysvU7NE27bcmcNLCTMq+2s3dLM7STKoZ3dKI+EMHpEFDI2D/t3Ge7Jk4IVUG2qWij1Im 0QgUCJQUdiKNY3gm71Z0uaGdXGI8eqIMGyQPN2rVCl3RrOu5LmyyEN2rwAuvXCzDworKvTq7 VqzXrMrX2drLVQvR1cyvZFy6t1vXh/20tgytLcuqOI2xpVvDHQvCHLzLKRus34y+AVutr1vC vayuzgqwnf202Pu53ivU4xzUKEDU2qq3N13XFK3UvQy8yorYkHhDInpcb0QRZYMwL+qa/8kI HBpW60NGsuAxzZg3EZEsj/YbWYRz7fA7+ImQ/sw7efHPJSFv8NEow51f2eQ6x+0OTpnE1Ira 7V26uXqsAbu68v2sfvu9pIvf8o2rI4yr/79ctO1NuqZM2sxru7havsdq39Kcq6ubsgOOqj2N vobttu0NurQbvlQs3/QNzfx9uSTwvVjs3/xN3yqMthk+tSBuyoXt3wo0dtrGafTpFTEzp0nG X9XYHPERUe/cSOn2wJXUXdJESDHG4zwpwBj2Z2HwLINhN4MCkTUIpdFdyWFgPbZ0LanAgxiN 0airwoF7sVs8tCTb1B4r5mM+rENrwlyO0ZZNsNjMxp6b5VwO0ir8roWd0f5aqmrur6VM5v76 wlyeuqK85Wbe0R4723AOsneOtGAurWKe6Gd+vXHO0Du9048+5gJA528e6F2Oy2zO6Fvc4qFa IbldBXWLAs760f8Woo2hXiGXbgi4erwnMLKrPutwoeYlu8K0nuu6vuu83uu+/uvAHuzCPuzE XuzGfuzInuzKvuzM3uzO/uzQHu3SPu3UXu3Wfu3Ynu3avu3c3u3e/u3gHu7iPu7kXu7mfu7o nu7qvu79tAARMAHwHgELMALwXu/1vgAOYO/6Pu8noAAToAL6HvD1Lu8jsAAC/+8PIPAPgAIO 8O7xzu8AYO8k4PATgAAFT/ERoAAi4O8HHwEJH/ALTwLwHvIiYPDw7gAjgAD5Xu8oDwAfPwEr r+8AsPIPgAAwXwIjTwImf/MjEPMwb/Ep4O4sD/Q9b+8OAPQrT/QRX+8l7/Atv/MtDwD/HD8B DzD1ETACFB/wRN/wE3/wE7Dz/37xA6/xUg/vEO/y9a7xBk/2JZLvEeAADc/0ACD0cB/3+P72 cV/3b48C7372JSD0DwD3fZ/wb+/wQI8AhA/3hD/374737x71XY/3LF/yOV/w8Y71E+D4Jz/3 MA/3mS/48t74gs/zRU/6iA/vZG/yih/vCCD0EaDyJ//4AIAAfW/zfr/yUX/6E0D2Nt/5Mc/2 JSD6cU/1ItD7dZ/2Um/4Yn/1Bv/29Y4AtJ/5bB/9X6/7EB8Bmn/8bA/vRI/9o3/8Qk/6wu/0 s+/wEO/6Fm/wSi8iBg/5HA/06k/5CpDxlH/4wD8CHH/1Qb/7/8UPAg4CTA8AONNyniU7RSei ypPDstGk4MtEoyaj3u6k47F8KscNMFudVs9aE5cCGk1OGA6gi82EwVTMCMayrtBsLjI8Xd+s B9pXjritv+GvXBvR5YiRVL34ubzMTSQNXVUtngRGjXAZFSX9QOkMtkD5yHWFio6Slpqeoqaq 4uCFzgx9ytysxZZGPByR+iDhIE69aAEsQP2igM4URlWmgO5urWFGKAwV16yJuP5gOWi1huqs 6DRpExfN8LKEbWvV6iUjh/oIc6bZWFZuAV76QCH2HgYTpkiUjR9JBnbxhUZZGSWcIniCtGoi xYoWL3apxkjZCHhEQHVRIMRHwC7OZv9oQaRDDiJJz8zEoydoBDOTRdqxkvgSxy9vGQsO4tYi 2QmRN0RCIjOnzKtsceB085NQ6jyQAn1OjVTw0AglEURgI1GSBMBRLut5WQjgbAt2Mi0pU2ok Isa6du/aFYkurcF52ux9tFVmzyiHP8b9BfW375a/VINYrVmTCI8UhTlpVNdH1BOkNFMSbWtJ SqVibzsTFurlMVw9gkfp0Jp2XKO/j8bi89eFLSEAIh/zRmRZVKxPciEWZY13OfPmvhcuEBeX G2BMVosurm7zgQPpZNVMZRK7xle5eqzGmoyp8tuq6RbOKI+PJw07KFIqB2xfyYruvTjXx4Vq 431DlXrf6MT/ShmSgEOCHN0dJlpWEobC1hV/7RWcFgda594XXkChgHLOkVjiRPHFBEtQe+HU hThM0JHgenAg4cJTwERRxS/DxDRWEBzZ1JVubdAHzU48ZgMFGQO+JdIaP4j4YR0AKgmDaikY SWFcoriBJUFaSBJGLP6gKFYoufm4VoJWijefmme65aM3tYiDnBNZmpinnqY0GJh7cFzyZyhG 5YSnMwl1Mx+ZXBTjQzIR0ueWkSu1AJ12mWHh6E9rbLKhm2npAeUXMlIpCCKedZHCXiQECuhz Mqna2qtiUAoTqETcZpZOsdZAj4YvWNpELQhsgueexyL7Uwkq+lETAjG+QYexuUQj/4qX9DG1 WQsNSeckoJbCgIR9wBKjQzBKPFAbVZri4G0QC6VQiLmC2BkdGmHEoEQhIoEUb07BbNIEsUMq A9jAd0A6sBYDEyEGGTQB9nDB1OATnSaDhJHqfLWSh8mygPpBbWNKjpisySUi9dc12VW3iVou P6nNg9pIpbJfKrAsRMqOcZldHiyIuNi6Pmv8QzA701w0Piil4zI5FQJBWD1GXugH04osFlrB jkWb3SPa8OKs0DjEaHNj2VVKWGK99rX22UAYpi1f1fFjyXUn4+3cAkwkowDffEOzNxMgCR6W MHzL4TcT0Pw9hOIo/D24E5EzAWAJSROHeGGahwR4OpQTpf+4A9AoYCQCnnNWBZI9DIp6UVn+ jUrhkfGdKudw9MDEqpCPbnvkadTOeyGxC2/F7YdLngTf6CxAjbF5Qx+99M3VPTAMd0+fvfbb c9+99xYhEL7445Nfvvnno5+++uuzX/7e4194ffvz01+//ffjn7/++/Pfv//ify+AOGAAAQto wAMiMIEKXCADG+jAB0IQDxGAIAUraMELYjCDGtwgBzvowQ8eUIAiHCEJS2jCE6IwhSpcIQtb 6MIXwjCGMpwhDWtowxviMIc63CEPe+jDHwIxiEIcIhGLaMQjIjGJSlwiE5voxCdCMYpSnCIV q2jFK2Ixi1rcIhe76MUvgjGMYhz/IxnLaMYzojGNalwjG9voxjfCMY5ynCMd62jHO+Ixj3rc Ix/76Mc/AjKQghwkIQtpyEMiMpEYSYAEEqDIRwoRAhSY5CQbWRdKUrIBJWrAJB0JyU/6kJOO ZCQF7CIBCQCAlJokUQIo4ElQwjKHrXylK+vSAFSeQAKrdM4sY+nLG/YSAA2AgCoa8Eoc3JIF uixRMH/pzBi2kpLLTEUtQ5FMYeKSldV8JjdbGExOElOYlczlJDUpyUmGkwWcHCcy2UnKRjbA mJT0JCcl4EpSUsCejlxnNrvpzxE2k5PYPAEEICBKSZ5gm8hEJTjVicuCAkACxIwmAEoJAIja s5QGlegJ/0RZ0Xgq9J8i7V4zW3lRTLoykwk9pkPJucpzUrKiE6XAS+2Jy2sK9AS9zGg6R+rT 7QVUoz1NJQT0WVGWdhSX0XQkRNvJTo7i9KYWTWU1i0rTn2I1e61cJSM1yUlNMlKSCejlVUNx SnXmMwFfTSUqm6rTWp51oAm1pFjXStOwZjWvJoumNHfJT7Wq9KRlJWhg1wnStAq2nBHNZz35 OkqbRnOdFAhnTvVqWR1WtqjLueZlO2tDj+IVLyH1LGlhCNOhlja1ql0ta1vr2tfCNrayna33 murWU1yTkUilLW/zBNNKItWexBRuFySLSZCicqm9Xe6xQGtPFtg2nLd9qye3Kv/XYE6Tudpd TjOrKt3vimKbV81tNbO73fMusprDFEV0w4tU8u4WvfKlCF8Zy17whqK8lFXqaOfrX1V8c7IE fSl+u4DS/VI3l57MqFJPCdz/+jeoJyUwQVF71FwimKqONGo8NRzNcMYVwugtqUWn2d78vpe/ nlTvOVdMz6mKeLsSjiiFL2rhbW4VvivFpiarWU2Txvi81mXrKjl60Yf2862rXKc4R1nWq0J0 rR/tKIyD3Nv62lecjM1kTFg4DW46NqPDROeHJXlLdFa0k1ZeM5vjOzM3wznOcp4znets5zvj Oc963jOf++znPwM60IIeNKknAihDIzrRilcHFxvt6EcGQzrShAwBADs= --------------AttPart_33871351==.OLA-- From skarz@email.msn.com Wed Oct 12 04:52:19 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPcLT-0006lv-SH; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:52:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA07557; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPcVk-0003Cb-Lq; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:02:57 -0400 Received: from c-66-177-175-180.hsd1.fl.comcast.net ([66.177.175.180]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EPcLR-0001Ag-CU; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:52:17 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.8] ([66.177.175.180]) by hotmail.com (Sendmail 8.7.8) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT34880 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:52:19 -0600 Message-ID: <494n788l.0215490@hotmail.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=skyscrape; d=hotmail.com; b=FpZ9wbJfRBEQ64RnAdF4L6DkOvRF0HXJR7t2LFwGaIcZMGt6rvRKjgn2IQVaKuiZshdLDNdnLGppA7ty; X-Display: Full X-List: athena.usenet Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:52:19 -0600 From: "David Contreras" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: proto-team@ietf.org Cc: provreg-archive@ietf.org, ps2.slim.incentive@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org, pwe3-admin@ietf.org, pwot@ietf.org, pwot-admin@ietf.org, pwtmzl2tpext-admin@ietf.org Subject: Lowest rate approved Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_95343959==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_95343959==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
may mcgregor try sial not gee not adorn be penny try until may conjugacy try gnu be blasphemous , cacophonist it dickcissel but gail or winston see ambulant Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_95343959==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="flamingo.8.gif" Content-ID: <5.0.0.55.0.99054101219905.09691978@embedding.msn.com.6> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="flamingo.8.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhtgHYAMQAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZzJmZmZlmzGZm zGZmZmYzzDMzMzMAzAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAC2AdgAAAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrVqv2Kx2y+16v+CweEwum8/otHrNbrvf8Lh8Tq/b7/gf5ECCLFQLEAB+eYWG h1V7fX8pgYOMiJGSk0OKI4SNgpiUnJ2eM5YimAcQEhKWjpiBpqGfrq+cpaazfwcSDiILEnyp f7qMDruww8SGrYQQuCOOvQASkAAOysXU1XDHf7KzpgC9tnzLgtbj5GjYjyfNzyTS5e7vYOe/ IqS+mr7r0cLo8P3+UucAkKKV616uWZZs/VvIkI0DaA0jSpxIsaLFixgzatzIsaPHjyBDihxJ suQ4XSRu/41o52ITvXwuFkzz4TKGo0Ezy9wkoevAzioscdQUsu+GA3Epiu74CWSfLqRDU9S0 BXGFzCBRY4pLloZpt11epQS9kfWH0hpHV5zNEbYHJmn71kqtKuMqkLIs2upEakLvk7E28PaQ axYcD786WO4ihJKerFYCEdoKFgycLlaGL5sCLCIYZnqeYT6bhcsWq4Okp4VWpK1eNwiPDa92 +ZPQgdCMFK7M+TX1t5eQwML+rPDmQFN0j99CuupUWoGPk2urHG048hG3CUZm58D0Ke4p+RxX xdfPZJUjnMaONg32bp6CAq3XrCy0skDB8H3Wt661EJSkdIPLc5MdZNgltVwnzP881R3ESCm8 wQbOcxJCp8x1rvHDIISiWPLcTYydwos4R4l33SIvdSgeV7p1ltOGKr2FHjMiNljcVuJkiN2M 33314HcF+lgCKTmawkcwOXI1iCKklCYBePzsGE5k961T2wKmQbRgPpW1aKQIML32lSI77VOi hb3xwqUg3wQo5hDftKOQkkoWZIJt+QgT5kPOHFinnSY89xIfMLGEiVJctQWiPeB809OOEN3U jqCRHdAieyUgistNo4nC6KA3NiglilM6A417fza2El+/URonq7tcamhVmCAzE0pXUmWCntC0 w5g0+JTATEJxqemnT3H1+keYiOnwjCV+5KPNNncmCE7/rNtI9iRPOXGGKYpFzbodt9/2tZU9 O/rEV5TpWSoMYOZt6yIJlwoIJpb36PYTtmKGts2x9LIpr50u/baSlkfmtAu8WA4srrDxnUuv cIsYHJ7FYvbiCJ/wvVkpmGpm+4xxIgNZocdCHCWvygiygOe1hB6Y3qndrtsZrDG/x4+moprr qceODqxrCcCSiLPFNfHMHp8ysbSvu/3yVgJt4iCqya0D9/yxqwsfXVStdPlRK9ZfXbwWr1B2 aupZw6YLctk+v41CY82yhd6Yy+SjY8sGv4vKlj/mROSEODp2oWzKyBg4dB6KsyjQwlSYpQmm GeYemksaSLS06FUOpnpmixkk/5HC8mg0OKUIXCVEthT5bo9Ndmi47F+hTtcqO65OpewYv80g dfrU12PHO/WNuodP7nRm7TQCCmeYd0On3dTWyq3ZJprdwlt2+ykXHOI/o7aZMtzX+CZjSBk8 W9isagPJeLdvE9TlmTvfZ6jSb3aCcoJezxL8+5uO39yHHQI6hhWQyEr0AHjAGvWuT+ILBYOG Rrz0FWslkkHZ9X6Uj7qZhAVhahke/pSFB37QHaOjX8fmQD/gbcFbJ0ThdGQWvjmshoZYIEwM d8jDHvrwh0AMohCHSMQixkEwT0BiXwqlw5bYDCtPhIIKYzDFFlRxIFE0wqOKsMUZdBELSmxC GDNVJP+pUTGLNEGjGNWogiq6zGZPocsRvvifJlrFjlKUI0D0CIj+4PGNR3CjFNkoFUJODY5/ rCMOf0BHGDTSWZqxlCwg0Rwm3eKSp3kNKwgkQMs8hpPT200pJEkabGXyeou8xCXfd0MwTYOO qZtFZrZRCiGJYlsbPIF19IfB/eRPNNqADH+Q0sr6eY8n8ouMLH85E39N8XqdyaA+Ujek6QAH g2PiRt4mlMEtMmgex7xljELZOiMppxTZIAj/cHCdp6jJQdF0l7QYASM2Xc5z9aTd3qbJuJfs QxVrWoFpyuMcWRDqlWf5pDYvAxdtwk4lDPUMrcbHoWk21ETaq2hqhveS4fz/AUkXzZxppFFR z5BUJSrrziAK2iOQemZdA+GTSSU6zAMNVGUCg0QwekOb12kPOUGipj7kedJNnWKUq1DpjoCa OpVZCUJ8aKpQa3A30RCqV92ByaFOJQiuXbUPXYUV0Yw2Mdvdix18HCoGEYqLu8GSR4QiFi79 SKh9kG5qWgXL8AqETlXWFRhZa103kGVBXKAqr+7iC5ZoR5m8LeApeUOkmizYVY7eMoHPoOBO 3Vk6wu5IE0/yTlxXillkDUhzE3sdZun5OoSmVS2GsSrGAoG0BEEsGgir18ZKdiCWcKxdP/MO Le8om6x9x60JZU5mmSUvEalEuP86JDIfWzLQimxZ/6rJ2kohWt3MTYsWDLoTiUr2EKstUU29 etJOxTuxhuk0eWvpSXj14aNfjMyP1z0Oa2U2tPXOTHP+Io0NikLgr+6mtnKTnVcheImumlFn C95ZKucWrqIUaHgupF1kGjaTWkZzlJFJhjRGLN5ZUlfEI07niEd8UGya674oBpZ3tbdiZMnx cpRZ8UPCe1dkorcP6tXuSqcbpCE3Ur5h8vBRNTGcW+pYqZcx1pC4ZOEOtlbHr1VBgYH7O2xZ DhjQAtJD/YY6MZNviv8bs1mrY5kt4bCLnB1IOhOkXfrpqqKyWGp7rByhGl0mxID9aOcudzf/ GugXrQt05hrbz5HCs35xBv8xhqa6TWXWgkOGxiCZvvQlyB7ZlJdGD00ZGs0zh1WtdBxanE/0 qEgnEgVbtl4GERzB/3Wy1mcWMNGmwb9/UhIh+02HUrLXuWzRyoKhzhY7LPzdiWarzbQsczKd kd3SLZPYrNlKtsh3XQ0H2JLZkqw/ERJNFDRbfJ2OrzCga8F1f0mcAvYXaiHVy20Emz/SzAIJ XfbgJdyGcizetVKFxcrMpHgmPukLidPRNM6kWFgB7wwltyeN3so4FxOvuMBvBY3baJw7wKrK bSz+W7ukY+HYQfnIAQ5yiJQ8UhEXEK+lNnCBHLxRCI85FVpoR55P2IhAt2G+VVDMoBv96EhP utL/l870pjudi69+utTb8MipW/3qWGe6QqgSSpTZxoDMjBySSJ31sgNh61/q3Si2dc+vuy6q KunPz81O9xig/cu3xRTXtPYbOhmy7oBvAdpJZbYj8fa3bxtFXwPPeBoMXoTckRTNccYuCjb+ 8oIP7cCG4rndNVrN6CCFu7JROGpj/vTbuVRUVLjOBl4yqoBFz+UI3W/U2556t889FTyo+95X Isu+D77wh0/84hv/+MgXAwxJYsKQ/GT5SIiKm24QdRyMh4bKPVFNKSeLV04yb+YLWAgZeTW5 6evvXtQ1T3LT/XBoP481ZAf6k8CxeolROjmoPllGXBO6bZr0UWUzJuMk//iAD4YnM6oyBKlw OCmCMj1gX15xKPZEgLYEf+yyKiUUOcBHBNI3f7A2dzzwDJxhGjVUIgQGDcWzMN5nKpfwIh5I A0xhV7j0glrxQPkBOR5XKhYYFZRiBYHwE5W0Zh+zOb5kHw04L4pHGjZTPt7UTepXb9xGKkb4 Gje4KvuWDEJWNFAyLzOzCd9QFECoTtHhIiBWQKVkeCGkMRuFHMaxHtynhLcEGeeBgLDxUTPx LO/DNvIjOKMhIpcRClO4NvrjHVfzGBioBWVoS9ThhclFODezIgIDHnhSJTZzOVGmiEixFmdy V2v3iGhyiZvTChWnXY7CF2PxJ9GShwmYgG8SJP/zgCTV9HZtsi7NwGDn53mpZjoZs4QVNSi2 sggwMVucw4eRUyE4xiSEtg4ZUis9oiQ96IN8sSeGlYcHEhZfFC+SmA0ouC6U8ih7wgh66Ce2 hQ7XiCyLlFKgUmfoojOi0GE8pjYHkXepol42s2DjJyaH0igziBMrBHkZo0Ot4yHTyI8IEoxK oTT0NoTFgSjLolOJ8yDMQVZakILVaBCDsoX96CKyMpAFsy4kZErhlmD28y3Y2BvGphejCHvj IkLP10x3+IPpAoa0KDHp4nAIwzh0KGENmAolMzU25TjhV1Zp8ThjgYduc4S5wIejsh1M0Q7h 8pA1pBvPWAX7glXlwor/U3mNDYN3v6iDN+NjDLYrCMiQBQFQ6ZBFviIT3RYlFsMsFpSDdqJV LtiOyFQuh3iR8dgx+biTFjkXGTmVpQhdp0CRQRGDfqKUR7iQ4hiWD8OIXxCGgPVjsRMwjeOJ nAiUKumKlqWZZIZamoiMBAVW3OSA0NE0PWEYLVITxpiJoxU7uqIrrcY2ZQRPI6hmzaOX4KiP djJB/aeLMsWNWdUki+kME7hhxrlsizMxSymVoJlgjZmHGoYFTIFK4Bc9KZdvgchASbgZvHiG EfQ9JxCISUmEfraERdeA3zVe5tOGvKRJMPGHNFQ8Y2iXZrgZkfN++JibfOl60gGHWCQzTmWd //xwHN6Hn+gGGC2SoCujfk8ZPo5ZPxthf2JRezAgTO/QfMknbOxHoUwAfSKBoRn6Yu0ZoiRa oiZ6oiiaoiq6oiw6AgRQADBKAAEgAwJQAERAAAQAADUqACJQAAPQRk9IRRtIEwhkAgEAo0hK ADxKBD7aoz/qA03qpOwEgjswRmeHTlMJA9MnBDg6AC+aozFQozeaozX6pFFqbgkypIRHf5tm pAVAAAPgpTD6pEIQpWfKA2d6pzSgf4Ghpj7QGFn6AlsaBDgqAoUapjY6BIUaAAMwowCgp7h3 gS9gpSHIWm66pAAQAC+KqUCgpFIKpXQKqTLApzVAqX9KgwFUBIVao/9gmqkvGqMF4Kg1mqSJ WgKamqQzyqow6qpIyqkDgKRvmqNHKgCzuqtoWjvVqT0bph1fl1WUwYhRVXTrZDHKczIkMKzX GqW3Oqck8KsxKqvfCgBfGq46GgDFWqsicKSvWgDE2qsjcK4vqqPAeq7puq5L+qtf+oHRxEvz Q0wuCWLrQ4gRxE3jxz+q81xuWJ2PtQdvUSW+ZLBTphnvM58usK7smq5zKqexKq8+6q3oirFv Gqcwaq4xKgBH2rEv+qT4KrJvmqnsyqghKxXk9mgc4jl9t7AYpY1us3jgNGgDMg3u9mDYSgKL GqNyCqYr660zOqct+6pwaqzpurK2iqQe+7T/GzurLGujMAunW/ujJxunKQsA3iqj+rqJ7uEl ybJsOLIi8/RoaTGLU0aJloaLsmknpei2s4k3qWUiJqI7FQun3sqjL+qot7q0ZOuyHyuuF5uu PMqqM7qpLhqrrPquLTu0oipChHaYQ4gOsIFsUSl2eik1t4isnDG0LpqjkGuo7Dq5GPujb2qu jxulNeqoIwCpJ5urLSuvPPq6IFu7ofqkqau4W6tl5ogiv8I0WfMhQgM2Z3UwLFgtHTM0qTKT gLIK16Is7MIUCDaPL3CoR/qjcJqtAWC68moCh1oCs6u6wAqj7Uq74iqsi3u5NbRcELeSnGtn vrazNvUkWYEM7xWU/xjLqY+Kuq3qsu26vi07q2B6vulLAra7uEM7rOQrpp/6qMCLwOz6q7DV lJtyDxvjcvfhkQ9CZyE5OD4ZMEP4XdpUKjuhJIL5HR05ZcbbcYl0vk1bwLP7vUSbuPFqAg2c snEaxCSLqZoKv0sqv1GyDjyjetpIMhOCUHQ5JftWEBKKAhPcpD0sAjvKqkEcp0t6q+Dbqg3s u5cawAGsw5FLxp8KxF0MsxtMlmtzL2fhNMs7wiJZOpFqt/kLCI5DIkehn3dyKzC1edlANn+r uj+Kr7i7sWGruImryLwqr476q09axD16sbdqxBWcUD8STYvDxOQoMG12aYlDZQlyZkBbE/+Z NgKmq7Riy7uzOr5veq8vW8sETLnua8FlbMBm3Mivqsa6/MqVXKga7I8QZLbEJGqWVS6Ss3hv 8TfqAjd5I7cGw5uR0sf20irQTLeDjCKauYEWe7gWO7K8ur4nMM5kurHqS7UgC6yaHMwRmG/Z IyeErCF7AIbqh4VF6nrNpF2r3M7ASrvjvKTn+rony77vi8sl8MBfDMGYPM61mqd0Os6JXKv2 ZyZPOEHjNxbrU0O5tF0iNx2iXJ/jdxO0FZEhM5gk3YOgnD9WKgBdjL5BDNO0C9NeTKe2KsRR 67423agl0MXEmqk+LbZLaqH3JwMeagJdPAACrKNBrNRe3K1MrcX/RDzUIzDVOU24Q82oNT3T dIrVRE0CPS2rdIp4LZoGlAqiZ416lMp7a/3WcB3Xcj3XdF3Xdj0FLeynLRB1qanXd30ReV0Y WiovpvrXgA0Vfg1bg23Mhu0PfRgr33eghiVLM0ud56Ea7eGvgng3EIsbktrY8NBOfjZXyRnY mDi3S/luSqyMrC23K1nYoO0KVQWeSmPa32h5P2OacFMoA1kqfR3bC3GC7aJbIcw31fVAGtNV gIyPP3mEsA3cnRBrEFTbiH3Hm5sSjTEaMCPF24iU0P0P0q1aTuY8z9xm7oJDjAaLCUYjru0l HPrdsBDe0DY+5P1rRWpCGg2egAKxKymg//D93wAe4AI+4ARe4AZ+4Aie4Aq+4Aze4A7+4BAe 4RI+4RRe4RZ+4Rie4Rq+4Rze4R7+4SAe4iI+4iRe4sT3ABGQ4iluACKQACie4g+QACrg4ioe 4yNgACqu4gmQ4xHwACkQASyOAgzA4wAw5DUe5EZe4wDw4jpeAgzAACXwAD4+AjSe4g0Q5EKe 4wyA5QBgAA1Q4zI+AjZOAhEA5QDw5T2O5BFA5lCO42EOADue41MuAjhOAjhO5GV+42je42++ 5H0OAHl+AlWe5jceAW++41g+6GN+5zm+5Dz+5y3O5GO+5HPe5YZO5ZL+5lLe4iluAg9g5iKw 6Y6e4wnA6FZO5/88DuR2ruqF/uZeDuZUHgEIMAKdLgJDzuK3zgIJwAAo/uS4DuO8nuKgXgJx /uloPuU4/ulPvuVP3uMMAOmcXulOXubLXuTUbuS/vuzPTunazuXW3ueiPupP/uLQzujjvuKc 7uxGPucozuV5vuMPgOa2vua03uaXTufN/ungfu+2PuTKDuhmXuzN3uNizuoiEOhRLuzBfu9u Hutq7uwvbub5/uTcvuzebu3OjuZmHu6WHubrzgAaH+o+7u8n8OkkIOpS3u3Jfu72ruy+vuoP gOUND+fAvu6obuYIgO6OPu8Xn+WxHvM3juKQDu8y3+sdbwIzjwIv3vPWPu0O3/RRLu3/087v ok7ysW7wBT/s8G7p/O7oDRDqOg/wNM/iBuDx9H7w9v7nSY/qtX7yc57nd77vXz/qWI7wI2D1 bE/2/I7oNA/0dC70Ys7uUk8CRB/0qs7xDV/4f3/4Uk7wJT/sKC/tSU/wa18Cdz7nDR/3Jx8B c+/4Rh7mnM/zLjDkBe/td+7pWG/rqA7plU/4ZW73JED6sX/27Q71bq8CSR7km57sJrDjcx/r w97ivw7ptf/ifv/ujn/3Zy/2lV/5Qz7kfx7ueQ79qM/ixh/ksA/oUo/jX5/0fF/7q077gq8C YU/nYY74l17+XX7+KQ7toQ75U87xR0/z3d/1lq/kR0/9Cc/i/18OAgAQNdEDIFEiMpEhwrHc wqQslm9s37ARAYOv36oHeESOrl4rmGwGTwAo8IR0FmGt3/JxSmV3Uu3SiOwlVMdHWhphsIC6 abIGJ8rwPtNoLPLaKaGpebWJvOWp3QDqAaS98Mjk/I1dBYX9NBhRxhBlbippblpG/TmpcDkN nZaJEJXcEdbJpK2kIbw+RSDEzYHSuSLebMkIxwn9PDAsM6yGxYAB/MANvzHTIbGRMTOseHH7 Aqc8GADW9gDGEJv5wUQDtpwYpynSBDYGhxHfxqSPwPmDRuhEvH+JnnFq9GgakzL+vjHzxXCU H0/G0AGhhk4Zs3QQlxlIllFHMnCdZP8lwBPQnZppNMCc6fWLTI12pm4AiZFgGZKQik4iNHWq 4QwXfGjKWFlURBtGF4O1O2emFRle6WBd5BJnR6xn+Fj58YeoZzWrUrBqDKaxZzJpPx/1wQjj oU0xoALiOcoOSdAjaT22I9IiC76DpgYrCUeHV590JPSum2kPQIlnhoqmdXuisNugJZdVrrY0 jcbJc+sipXNUjqSfUCUqc6Q3WJ2HGf0yXbKOYWGFJDq2Egvn8p7alW4nLZOMr1tRdF6E1qmX LqjoMODiVWM99wsvXBgn/StlpUrlrg27BWJrdvq56nEgd5QZ1GQu5KSVoOpemyPmnDkn1s8s qW1F2S4F9oP/GoJKSJGCMOWwFwd/CSBBTTY6NMGYPxDCoR6EL7QRkn/nNTLbJ5wcYqEJGAKh 4Rgc3uAgNU04995l9g2R3xzUbcJFAzmylt0KPgLZxWashZcginsMeRSA+RRXxIXHgNeEDvSA R9ZMwPhAyopGQHhKEakI0dkNE113nmlcBkgFH14+s6Y/9DihoJsXeflTdrEEsVadtF1ipmxx OjSGMXlmsecgrGhEZithRuGLbVic6eV9SvSpB6RV6JCOg+HEdppQl+hBWnqqACVdoqyEMU5x AvZ1w05nRjSTAdzMwE0zLCh2q2K76pTZrK7suhM3tugazrA+WFbrL7jSuoxlXo0p/y0t1mph 0hQkzecrU1l00wkz0+YRq7FwbOesuCDJmsW57PZwK7ZMHeutD+Pq5C6w14WRQBHv7rqvvywk O4OyEuE7TL/9zrelww9DHLHEE1NcscUXY5wxxOFq3LHHH4McMpghkVyyySejnLLKK7Pcsssv wxyzzDPTXLPNN+Ocs84789yzzb8oELTQQxNdtNFHI5200ksz3bTTT0MdtdRTU1211VdjnbXW W0+tmMhfgx222GOTXbbZZ6Odttprs92222/DHbfcc9Ndt91345233nvz3bfffwMeuOCDE164 4YcjnrjiizPeuOOPQx655JNTXrnll2Oeueabc96555+DHv+66KOTXrrpp6Oeuuqrs96666/D Hrvss9Neu+2345677rvz3rvvvwMfvPDDE1885BBIkLwDEkOwwA0OJJ88BGc3b7z1k1d/gATO Q1y9DA4sLwIE05ft/fXnN+69+Q6vLwL4MCxAPtnto1+/4dUvIMEBMECvPP/JL0B70vte+AAA gfAdAHkAhMEB+rc9/Ykgf9F7H/iQtz8Hjs95Eiyg/Tr4NwVKQH4OgMD+Erg87R0ggeLjXgwc GEIYjE8ECeReDAEgwf3lj4YSWB70yDfCEiLPedsz4P48aES+qW96+Sui+PY3RBiykH8OiF8L 5QcA7QFghDFYIgAgCEMeki9/MZj/oQGteMQz4s1825Ng9BaYQBKu8HnLO+D/2pg8E8pAf1jc Ig/DR8UYZC+IaByk3dS4ADFuApH0ex8K3cdB/lmRi14UXx9lOEkyWjKKhNxk29QnAfHBMYuf pKIiNZlFP5JPewiMoSojeEdR6rCS7oNjAreXwBQO8Y+c3CXaQBhKUUqviAqkoSnf50gZgrCA tVSeF9m4Q1m6L3oZBGb46MfLa1pujx8zIza76bgcIvOR3hzn6uI3QXKiM53qXCc72+nOd8Iz nvLkZANF1jztmTJiiBzjEx2my3nO04Ihu2c/KQY9TR4UYv8EKDxVKc6MWXNiIzTjAh+2UIa6 E3zaNOAI/wdYxxB6j42hrB4EH+g/ZE6QmwecIvzit8oJQvCAII1eIyPITYxes5HmQx756JhF Wi4QnD+NY0mHSMZW2vCFMjigLklIxzdaMqY7tOkxRTBJnHbTmNqsoQ2VeMkhFpSlJHUiC9+3 vouCFYfT06IWGRjTAv5xjxfFKi/t+ETzkdKMBLXr9MbaRSaalYlX5OYQzarBtWoypixsqvMi SldC/vOPePUqP4UoWCj+NbPHPKsZG4nCTyZ1qG7d32ThR0LQPhabVzVgYxfbU6AWNpRc9Osk 35c/PyrVrTD0KRa1lHVJDhYGIcxnagd5USoGF5gg5Z5IivFuAr5UeWbcJxevBdOgZe5QsaZt IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqFDubqOl7zJvCzg5prKvH23vvKdL33ra9/74flIZt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_95343959==.OLA-- From dow@avistaenergy.com Thu Oct 13 18:50:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQBuN-0008N0-RV; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:50:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA25028; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQC4y-0004IB-I1; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:01:40 -0400 Received: from i216-58-16-245.cybersurf.com ([216.58.16.245]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EQBuF-0007mX-IA; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:50:37 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([216.58.16.245]) by msn.com (Sendmail 8.7.3) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT98758 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:49:51 -0600 Message-ID: <844w871l.6755299@msn.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=billfold; d=msn.com; b=igZgNBBle0NECjSi8dbYmYUcThSq6JlOfw674S8YOQLEcgrxLYN01TYZVI1eUMUwNuHNJV2ZT1re6aKZ; X-Display: Full X-List: frank.usenet Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:49:51 -0600 From: "Nina Gore" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pm@ietf.org, pmtud@ietf.org, pmtud-admin@ietf.org, pmtud-bounces@ietf.org, pmtud-web-archive@ietf.org, policy@ietf.org, policy-admin@ietf.org, postmaster@ietf.org, poverib-web-archive@ietf.org, pping@ietf.org, pping-admin@ietf.org, ppm@ietf.org, ppm-archive@ietf.org, pppext@ietf.org, pr@ietf.org, presentations@ietf.org, proceedings@ietf.org, proto-team@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org, ps2.slim.incentive@ietf.org Subject: Ratess will skyrocket soon Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_10965592==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_10965592==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
not blond a edematous but bane some alimony on umbra and indefinable it's habitation on jasper try central see decathlon see bini but lability on indispensable be tideland Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_10965592==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="freshmen.2.gif" Content-ID: <1.0.0.88.0.99119008241872.59083594@bypath.hotmail.com.7> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="freshmen.2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhtgHYAMQAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZzJmZmZlmzGZm zGZmZmYzzDMzMzMAzAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAC2AdgAAAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrVqv2Kx2y+16v+CweEwum8/otHrNbrvf8Lh8Tq/b7/gf5ECCLFQLEAB+eYWG h1V7fX8pgYOMiJGSk0OKI4SNgpiUnJ2eM5YimAcQEhKWjpiBpqGfrq+cpaazfwcSDiILEnyp f7qMDruww8SGrYQQuCOOvQASkAAOysXU1XDHf7KzpgC9tnzLgtbj5GjYjyfNzyTS5e7vYOe/ IqS+mr7r0cLo8P3+UucAkKKV616uWZZs/VvIkI0DaA0jSpxIsaLFixgzatzIsaPHjyBDihxJ suQ4XSRu/41o52ITvXwuFkzz4TKGo0Ezy9wkoevAzioscdQUsu+GA3Epiu74CWSfLqRDU9S0 BXGFzCBRY4pLloZpt11epQS9kfWH0hpHV5zNEbYHJmn71kqtKuMqkLIs2upEakLvk7E28PaQ axYcD786WO4ihJKerFYCEdoKFgycLlaGL5sCLCIYZnqeYT6bhcsWq4Okp4VWpK1eNwiPDa92 +ZPQgdCMFK7M+TX1t5eQwML+rPDmQFN0j99CuupUWoGPk2urHG048hG3CUZm58D0Ke4p+RxX xdfPZJUjnMaONg32bp6CAq3XrCy0skDB8H3Wt661EJSkdIPLc5MdZNgltVwnzP881R3ESCm8 wQbOcxJCp8x1rvHDIISiWPLcTYydwos4R4l33SIvdSgeV7p1ltOGKr2FHjMiNljcVuJkiN2M 33314HcF+lgCKTmawkcwOXI1iCKklCYBePzsGE5k961T2wKmQbRgPpW1aKQIML32lSI77VOi hb3xwqUg3wQo5hDftKOQkkoWZIJt+QgT5kPOHFinnSY89xIfMLGEiVJctQWiPeB809OOEN3U jqCRHdAieyUgistNo4nC6KA3NiglilM6A417fza2El+/URonq7tcamhVmCAzE0pXUmWCntC0 w5g0+JTATEJxqemnT3H1+keYiOnwjCV+5KPNNncmCE7/rNtI9iRPOXGGKYpFzbodt9/2tZU9 O/rEV5TpWSoMYOZt6yIJlwoIJpb36PYTtmKGts2x9LIpr50u/baSlkfmtAu8WA4srrDxnUuv cIsYHJ7FYvbiCJ/wvVkpmGpm+4xxIgNZocdCHCWvygiygOe1hB6Y3qndrtsZrDG/x4+moprr qceODqxrCcCSiLPFNfHMHp8ysbSvu/3yVgJt4iCqya0D9/yxqwsfXVStdPlRK9ZfXbwWr1B2 aupZw6YLctk+v41CY82yhd6Yy+SjY8sGv4vKlj/mROSEODp2oWzKyBg4dB6KsyjQwlSYpQmm GeYemksaSLS06FUOpnpmixkk/5HC8mg0OKUIXCVEthT5bo9Ndmi47F+hTtcqO65OpewYv80g dfrU12PHO/WNuodP7nRm7TQCCmeYd0On3dTWyq3ZJprdwlt2+ykXHOI/o7aZMtzX+CZjSBk8 W9isagPJeLdvE9TlmTvfZ6jSb3aCcoJezxL8+5uO39yHHQI6hhWQyEr0AHjAGvWuT+ILBYOG Rrz0FWslkkHZ9X6Uj7qZhAVhahke/pSFB37QHaOjX8fmQD/gbcFbJ0ThdGQWvjmshoZYIEwM d8jDHvrwh0AMohCHSMQixkEwT0BiXwqlw5bYDCtPhIIKYzDFFlRxIFE0wqOKsMUZdBELSmxC GDNVJP+pUTGLNEGjGNWogiq6zGZPocsRvvifJlrFjlKUI0D0CIj+4PGNR3CjFNkoFUJODY5/ rCMOf0BHGDTSWZqxlCwg0Rwm3eKSp3kNKwgkQMs8hpPT200pJEkabGXyeou8xCXfd0MwTYOO qZtFZrZRCiGJYlsbPIF19IfB/eRPNNqADH+Q0sr6eY8n8ouMLH85E39N8XqdyaA+Ujek6QAH g2PiRt4mlMEtMmgex7xljELZOiMppxTZIAj/cHCdp6jJQdF0l7QYASM2Xc5z9aTd3qbJuJfs QxVrWoFpyuMcWRDqlWf5pDYvAxdtwk4lDPUMrcbHoWk21ETaq2hqhveS4fz/AUkXzZxppFFR z5BUJSrrziAK2iOQemZdA+GTSSU6zAMNVGUCg0QwekOb12kPOUGipj7kedJNnWKUq1DpjoCa OpVZCUJ8aKpQa3A30RCqV92ByaFOJQiuXbUPXYUV0Yw2Mdvdix18HCoGEYqLu8GSR4QiFi79 SKh9kG5qWgXL8AqETlXWFRhZa103kGVBXKAqr+7iC5ZoR5m8LeApeUOkmizYVY7eMoHPoOBO 3Vk6wu5IE0/yTlxXillkDUhzE3sdZun5OoSmVS2GsSrGAoG0BEEsGgir18ZKdiCWcKxdP/MO Le8om6x9x60JZU5mmSUvEalEuP86JDIfWzLQimxZ/6rJ2kohWt3MTYsWDLoTiUr2EKstUU29 etJOxTuxhuk0eWvpSXj14aNfjMyP1z0Oa2U2tPXOTHP+Io0NikLgr+6mtnKTnVcheImumlFn C95ZKucWrqIUaHgupF1kGjaTWkZzlJFJhjRGLN5ZUlfEI07niEd8UGya674oBpZ3tbdiZMnx cpRZ8UPCe1dkorcP6tXuSqcbpCE3Ur5h8vBRNTGcW+pYqZcx1pC4ZOEOtlbHr1VBgYH7O2xZ DhjQAtJD/YY6MZNviv8bs1mrY5kt4bCLnB1IOhOkXfrpqqKyWGp7rByhGl0mxID9aOcudzf/ GugXrQt05hrbz5HCs35xBv8xhqa6TWXWgkOGxiCZvvQlyB7ZlJdGD00ZGs0zh1WtdBxanE/0 qEgnEgVbtl4GERzB/3Wy1mcWMNGmwb9/UhIh+02HUrLXuWzRyoKhzhY7LPzdiWarzbQsczKd kd3SLZPYrNlKtsh3XQ0H2JLZkqw/ERJNFDRbfJ2OrzCga8F1f0mcAvYXaiHVy20Emz/SzAIJ XfbgJdyGcizetVKFxcrMpHgmPukLidPRNM6kWFgB7wwltyeN3so4FxOvuMBvBY3baJw7wKrK bSz+W7ukY+HYQfnIAQ5yiJQ8UhEXEK+lNnCBHLxRCI85FVpoR55P2IhAt2G+VVDMoBv96EhP utL/l870pjudi69+utTb8MipW/3qWGe6QqgSSpTZxoDMjBySSJ31sgNh61/q3Si2dc+vuy6q KunPz81O9xig/cu3xRTXtPYbOhmy7oBvAdpJZbYj8fa3bxtFXwPPeBoMXoTckRTNccYuCjb+ 8oIP7cCG4rndNVrN6CCFu7JROGpj/vTbuVRUVLjOBl4yqoBFz+UI3W/U2556t889FTyo+95X Isu+D77wh0/84hv/+MgXAwxJYsKQ/GT5SIiKm24QdRyMh4bKPVFNKSeLV04yb+YLWAgZeTW5 6evvXtQ1T3LT/XBoP481ZAf6k8CxeolROjmoPllGXBO6bZr0UWUzJuMk//iAD4YnM6oyBKlw OCmCMj1gX15xKPZEgLYEf+yyKiUUOcBHBNI3f7A2dzzwDJxhGjVUIgQGDcWzMN5nKpfwIh5I A0xhV7j0glrxQPkBOR5XKhYYFZRiBYHwE5W0Zh+zOb5kHw04L4pHGjZTPt7UTepXb9xGKkb4 Gje4KvuWDEJWNFAyLzOzCd9QFECoTtHhIiBWQKVkeCGkMRuFHMaxHtynhLcEGeeBgLDxUTPx LO/DNvIjOKMhIpcRClO4NvrjHVfzGBioBWVoS9ThhclFODezIgIDHnhSJTZzOVGmiEixFmdy V2v3iGhyiZvTChWnXY7CF2PxJ9GShwmYgG8SJP/zgCTV9HZtsi7NwGDn53mpZjoZs4QVNSi2 sggwMVucw4eRUyE4xiSEtg4ZUis9oiQ96IN8sSeGlYcHEhZfFC+SmA0ouC6U8ih7wgh66Ce2 hQ7XiCyLlFKgUmfoojOi0GE8pjYHkXepol42s2DjJyaH0igziBMrBHkZo0Ot4yHTyI8IEoxK oTT0NoTFgSjLolOJ8yDMQVZakILVaBCDsoX96CKyMpAFsy4kZErhlmD28y3Y2BvGphejCHvj IkLP10x3+IPpAoa0KDHp4nAIwzh0KGENmAolMzU25TjhV1Zp8ThjgYduc4S5wIejsh1M0Q7h 8pA1pBvPWAX7glXlwor/U3mNDYN3v6iDN+NjDLYrCMiQBQFQ6ZBFviIT3RYlFsMsFpSDdqJV LtiOyFQuh3iR8dgx+biTFjkXGTmVpQhdp0CRQRGDfqKUR7iQ4hiWD8OIXxCGgPVjsRMwjeOJ nAiUKumKlqWZZIZamoiMBAVW3OSA0NE0PWEYLVITxpiJoxU7uqIrrcY2ZQRPI6hmzaOX4KiP djJB/aeLMsWNWdUki+kME7hhxrlsizMxSymVoJlgjZmHGoYFTIFK4Bc9KZdvgchASbgZvHiG EfQ9JxCISUmEfraERdeA3zVe5tOGvKRJMPGHNFQ8Y2iXZrgZkfN++JibfOl60gGHWCQzTmWd //xwHN6Hn+gGGC2SoCujfk8ZPo5ZPxthf2JRezAgTO/QfMknbOxHoUwAfSKBoRn6Yu0ZoiRa oiZ6oiiaoiq6oiw6AgRQADBKAAEgAwJQAERAAAQAADUqACJQAAPQRk9IRRtIEwhkAgEAo0hK ADxKBD7aoz/qA03qpOwEgjswRmeHTlMJA9MnBDg6AC+aozFQozeaozX6pFFqbgkypIRHf5tm pAVAAAPgpTD6pEIQpWfKA2d6pzSgf4Ghpj7QGFn6AlsaBDgqAoUapjY6BIUaAAMwowCgp7h3 gS9gpSHIWm66pAAQAC+KqUCgpFIKpXQKqTLApzVAqX9KgwFUBIVao/9gmqkvGqMF4Kg1mqSJ WgKamqQzyqow6qpIyqkDgKRvmqNHKgCzuqtoWjvVqT0bph1fl1WUwYhRVXTrZDHKczIkMKzX GqW3Oqck8KsxKqvfCgBfGq46GgDFWqsicKSvWgDE2qsjcK4vqqPAeq7puq5L+qtf+oHRxEvz Q0wuCWLrQ4gRxE3jxz+q81xuWJ2PtQdvUSW+ZLBTphnvM58usK7smq5zKqexKq8+6q3oirFv Gqcwaq4xKgBH2rEv+qT4KrJvmqnsyqghKxXk9mgc4jl9t7AYpY1us3jgNGgDMg3u9mDYSgKL GqNyCqYr660zOqct+6pwaqzpurK2iqQe+7T/GzurLGujMAunW/ujJxunKQsA3iqj+rqJ7uEl ybJsOLIi8/RoaTGLU0aJloaLsmknpei2s4k3qWUiJqI7FQun3sqjL+qot7q0ZOuyHyuuF5uu PMqqM7qpLhqrrPquLTu0oipChHaYQ4gOsIFsUSl2eik1t4isnDG0LpqjkGuo7Dq5GPujb2qu jxulNeqoIwCpJ5urLSuvPPq6IFu7ofqkqau4W6tl5ogiv8I0WfMhQgM2Z3UwLFgtHTM0qTKT gLIK16Is7MIUCDaPL3CoR/qjcJqtAWC68moCh1oCs6u6wAqj7Uq74iqsi3u5NbRcELeSnGtn vrazNvUkWYEM7xWU/xjLqY+Kuq3qsu26vi07q2B6vulLAra7uEM7rOQrpp/6qMCLwOz6q7DV lJtyDxvjcvfhkQ9CZyE5OD4ZMEP4XdpUKjuhJIL5HR05ZcbbcYl0vk1bwLP7vUSbuPFqAg2c snEaxCSLqZoKv0sqv1GyDjyjetpIMhOCUHQ5JftWEBKKAhPcpD0sAjvKqkEcp0t6q+Dbqg3s u5cawAGsw5FLxp8KxF0MsxtMlmtzL2fhNMs7wiJZOpFqt/kLCI5DIkehn3dyKzC1edlANn+r uj+Kr7i7sWGruImryLwqr476q09axD16sbdqxBWcUD8STYvDxOQoMG12aYlDZQlyZkBbE/+Z NgKmq7Riy7uzOr5veq8vW8sETLnua8FlbMBm3Mivqsa6/MqVXKga7I8QZLbEJGqWVS6Ss3hv 8TfqAjd5I7cGw5uR0sf20irQTLeDjCKauYEWe7gWO7K8ur4nMM5kurHqS7UgC6yaHMwRmG/Z IyeErCF7AIbqh4VF6nrNpF2r3M7ASrvjvKTn+rony77vi8sl8MBfDMGYPM61mqd0Os6JXKv2 ZyZPOEHjNxbrU0O5tF0iNx2iXJ/jdxO0FZEhM5gk3YOgnD9WKgBdjL5BDNO0C9NeTKe2KsRR 67423agl0MXEmqk+LbZLaqH3JwMeagJdPAACrKNBrNRe3K1MrcX/RDzUIzDVOU24Q82oNT3T dIrVRE0CPS2rdIp4LZoGlAqiZ416lMp7a/3WcB3Xcj3XdF3Xdj0FLeynLRB1qanXd30ReV0Y WiovpvrXgA0Vfg1bg23Mhu0PfRgr33eghiVLM0ud56Ea7eGvgng3EIsbktrY8NBOfjZXyRnY mDi3S/luSqyMrC23K1nYoO0KVQWeSmPa32h5P2OacFMoA1kqfR3bC3GC7aJbIcw31fVAGtNV gIyPP3mEsA3cnRBrEFTbiH3Hm5sSjTEaMCPF24iU0P0P0q1aTuY8z9xm7oJDjAaLCUYjru0l HPrdsBDe0DY+5P1rRWpCGg2egAKxKymg//D93wAe4AI+4ARe4AZ+4Aie4Aq+4Aze4A7+4BAe 4RI+4RRe4RZ+4Rie4Rq+4Rze4R7+4SAe4iI+4iRe4sT3ABGQ4iluACKQACie4g+QACrg4ioe 4yNgACqu4gmQ4xHwACkQASyOAgzA4wAw5DUe5EZe4wDw4jpeAgzAACXwAD4+AjSe4g0Q5EKe 4wyA5QBgAA1Q4zI+AjZOAhEA5QDw5T2O5BFA5lCO42EOADue41MuAjhOAjhO5GV+42je42++ 5H0OAHl+AlWe5jceAW++41g+6GN+5zm+5Dz+5y3O5GO+5HPe5YZO5ZL+5lLe4iluAg9g5iKw 6Y6e4wnA6FZO5/88DuR2ruqF/uZeDuZUHgEIMAKdLgJDzuK3zgIJwAAo/uS4DuO8nuKgXgJx /uloPuU4/ulPvuVP3uMMAOmcXulOXubLXuTUbuS/vuzPTunazuXW3ueiPupP/uLQzujjvuKc 7uxGPucozuV5vuMPgOa2vua03uaXTufN/ungfu+2PuTKDuhmXuzN3uNizuoiEOhRLuzBfu9u Hutq7uwvbub5/uTcvuzebu3OjuZmHu6WHubrzgAaH+o+7u8n8OkkIOpS3u3Jfu72ruy+vuoP gOUND+fAvu6obuYIgO6OPu8Xn+WxHvM3juKQDu8y3+sdbwIzjwIv3vPWPu0O3/RRLu3/087v ok7ysW7wBT/s8G7p/O7oDRDqOg/wNM/iBuDx9H7w9v7nSY/qtX7yc57nd77vXz/qWI7wI2D1 bE/2/I7oNA/0dC70Ys7uUk8CRB/0qs7xDV/4f3/4Uk7wJT/sKC/tSU/wa18Cdz7nDR/3Jx8B c+/4Rh7mnM/zLjDkBe/td+7pWG/rqA7plU/4ZW73JED6sX/27Q71bq8CSR7km57sJrDjcx/r w97ivw7ptf/ifv/ujn/3Zy/2lV/5Qz7kfx7ueQ79qM/ixh/ksA/oUo/jX5/0fF/7q077gq8C YU/nYY74l17+XX7+KQ7toQ75U87xR0/z3d/1lq/kR0/9Cc/i/18OAgAQNdEDIFEiMpEhwrHc wqQslm9s37ARAYOv36oHeESOrl4rmGwGTwAo8IR0FmGt3/JxSmV3Uu3SiOwlVMdHWhphsIC6 abIGJ8rwPtNoLPLaKaGpebWJvOWp3QDqAaS98Mjk/I1dBYX9NBhRxhBlbippblpG/TmpcDkN nZaJEJXcEdbJpK2kIbw+RSDEzYHSuSLebMkIxwn9PDAsM6yGxYAB/MANvzHTIbGRMTOseHH7 Aqc8GADW9gDGEJv5wUQDtpwYpynSBDYGhxHfxqSPwPmDRuhEvH+JnnFq9GgakzL+vjHzxXCU H0/G0AGhhk4Zs3QQlxlIllFHMnCdZP8lwBPQnZppNMCc6fWLTI12pm4AiZFgGZKQik4iNHWq 4QwXfGjKWFlURBtGF4O1O2emFRle6WBd5BJnR6xn+Fj58YeoZzWrUrBqDKaxZzJpPx/1wQjj oU0xoALiOcoOSdAjaT22I9IiC76DpgYrCUeHV590JPSum2kPQIlnhoqmdXuisNugJZdVrrY0 jcbJc+sipXNUjqSfUCUqc6Q3WJ2HGf0yXbKOYWGFJDq2Egvn8p7alW4nLZOMr1tRdF6E1qmX LqjoMODiVWM99wsvXBgn/StlpUrlrg27BWJrdvq56nEgd5QZ1GQu5KSVoOpemyPmnDkn1s8s qW1F2S4F9oP/GoJKSJGCMOWwFwd/CSBBTTY6NMGYPxDCoR6EL7QRkn/nNTLbJ5wcYqEJGAKh 4Rgc3uAgNU04995l9g2R3xzUbcJFAzmylt0KPgLZxWashZcginsMeRSA+RRXxIXHgNeEDvSA R9ZMwPhAyopGQHhKEakI0dkNE113nmlcBkgFH14+s6Y/9DihoJsXeflTdrEEsVadtF1ipmxx OjSGMXlmsecgrGhEZithRuGLbVic6eV9SvSpB6RV6JCOg+HEdppQl+hBWnqqACVdoqyEMU5x AvZ1w05nRjSTAdzMwE0zLCh2q2K76pTZrK7suhM3tugazrA+WFbrL7jSuoxlXo0p/y0t1mph 0hQkzecrU1l00wkz0+YRq7FwbOesuCDJmsW57PZwK7ZMHeutD+Pq5C6w14WRQBHv7rqvvywk O4OyEuE7TL/9zrelww9DHLHEE1NcscUXY5wxxOFq3LHHH4McMpghkVyyySejnLLKK7Pcsssv wxyzzDPTXLPNN+Ocs84789yzzb8oELTQQxNdtNFHI5200ksz3bTTT0MdtdRTU1211VdjnbXW W0+tmMhfgx222GOTXbbZZ6Odttprs92222/DHbfcc9Ndt91345233nvz3bfffwMeuOCDE164 4YcjnrjiizPeuOOPQx655JNTXrnll2Oeueabc96555+DHv+66KOTXrrpp6Oeuuqrs96666/D Hrvss9Neu+2345677rvz3rvvvwMfvPDDE1885BBIkLwDEkOwwA0OJJ88BGc3b7z1k1d/gATO Q1y9DA4sLwIE05ft/fXnN+69+Q6vLwL4MCxAPtnto1+/4dUvIMEBMECvPP/JL0B70vte+AAA gfAdAHkAhMEB+rc9/Ykgf9F7H/iQtz8Hjs95Eiyg/Tr4NwVKQH4OgMD+Erg87R0ggeLjXgwc GEIYjE8ECeReDAEgwf3lj4YSWB70yDfCEiLPedsz4P48aES+qW96+Sui+PY3RBiykH8OiF8L 5QcA7QFghDFYIgAgCEMeki9/MZj/oQGteMQz4s1825Ng9BaYQBKu8HnLO+D/2pg8E8pAf1jc Ig/DR8UYZC+IaByk3dS4ADFuApH0ex8K3cdB/lmRi14UXx9lOEkyWjKKhNxk29QnAfHBMYuf pKIiNZlFP5JPewiMoSojeEdR6rCS7oNjAreXwBQO8Y+c3CXaQBhKUUqviAqkoSnf50gZgrCA tVSeF9m4Q1m6L3oZBGb46MfLa1pujx8zIza76bgcIvOR3hzn6uI3QXKiM53qXCc72+nOd8Iz nvLkZANF1jztmTJiiBzjEx2my3nO04Ihu2c/KQY9TR4UYv8EKDxVKc6MWXNiIzTjAh+2UIa6 E3zaNOAI/wdYxxB6j42hrB4EH+g/ZE6QmwecIvzit8oJQvCAII1eIyPITYxes5HmQx756JhF Wi4QnD+NY0mHSMZW2vCFMjigLklIxzdaMqY7tOkxRTBJnHbTmNqsoQ2VeMkhFpSlJHUiC9+3 vouCFYfT06IWGRjTAv5xjxfFKi/t+ETzkdKMBLXr9MbaRSaalYlX5OYQzarBtWoypixsqvMi SldC/vOPePUqP4UoWCj+NbPHPKsZG4nCTyZ1qG7d32ThR0LQPhabVzVgYxfbU6AWNpRc9Osk 35c/PyrVrTD0KRa1lMZIrhYGIcxnagd5USoGF5gg5Z5IinoD0r5UeWbcJxeveyWqZe5QsaZt IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqHb3cqOl7zJvCzg5privAf3vvKdL33ra9/744UHvt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_10965592==.OLA-- From ronald.schroeder312@jaybis.com Sat Oct 15 02:38:35 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQfgh-0006vO-8n; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:38:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA24131; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQfrX-0003Rg-MM; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:49:49 -0400 Received: from d53-64-26-212.nap.wideopenwest.com ([64.53.212.26]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EQfgW-0000Gt-OT; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:38:25 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.5] ([64.53.212.26]) by msn.com (Sendmail 8.7.0) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT72223 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:38:23 -0600 Message-ID: <782a912k.6643154@msn.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=hatchway; d=msn.com; b=DT0fI28pMldgyAEamEjXvPUvZi6mOc77LzqjrjypxVj1A5KrgJiUJVcGGCst1rTbvRjHYCQka7org3ok; X-Display: Full X-List: mouse.usenet Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:38:23 -0600 From: "Peggy Mcghee" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pr@ietf.org Subject: Lowest rate approved Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_53784355==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_53784355==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
try wolfgang in infernal be gam in pennant be corrosion not dishes see flew be constrict see joanne the agony , repelling be strum in newell on polkadot Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_53784355==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="diva.9.gif" Content-ID: <8.0.0.42.0.08693064821403.33030897@henri.yahoo.com.3> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="diva.9.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhtgHYAMQAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZzJmZmZlmzGZm zGZmZmYzzDMzMzMAzAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAC2AdgAAAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrVqv2Kx2y+16v+CweEwum8/otHrNbrvf8Lh8Tq/b7/gf5ECCLFQLEAB+eYWG h1V7fX8pgYOMiJGSk0OKI4SNgpiUnJ2eM5YimAcQEhKWjpiBpqGfrq+cpaazfwcSDiILEnyp f7qMDruww8SGrYQQuCOOvQASkAAOysXU1XDHf7KzpgC9tnzLgtbj5GjYjyfNzyTS5e7vYOe/ IqS+mr7r0cLo8P3+UucAkKKV616uWZZs/VvIkI0DaA0jSpxIsaLFixgzatzIsaPHjyBDihxJ suQ4XSRu/41o52ITvXwuFkzz4TKGo0Ezy9wkoevAzioscdQUsu+GA3Epiu74CWSfLqRDU9S0 BXGFzCBRY4pLloZpt11epQS9kfWH0hpHV5zNEbYHJmn71kqtKuMqkLIs2upEakLvk7E28PaQ axYcD786WO4ihJKerFYCEdoKFgycLlaGL5sCLCIYZnqeYT6bhcsWq4Okp4VWpK1eNwiPDa92 +ZPQgdCMFK7M+TX1t5eQwML+rPDmQFN0j99CuupUWoGPk2urHG048hG3CUZm58D0Ke4p+RxX xdfPZJUjnMaONg32bp6CAq3XrCy0skDB8H3Wt661EJSkdIPLc5MdZNgltVwnzP881R3ESCm8 wQbOcxJCp8x1rvHDIISiWPLcTYydwos4R4l33SIvdSgeV7p1ltOGKr2FHjMiNljcVuJkiN2M 33314HcF+lgCKTmawkcwOXI1iCKklCYBePzsGE5k961T2wKmQbRgPpW1aKQIML32lSI77VOi hb3xwqUg3wQo5hDftKOQkkoWZIJt+QgT5kPOHFinnSY89xIfMLGEiVJctQWiPeB809OOEN3U jqCRHdAieyUgistNo4nC6KA3NiglilM6A417fza2El+/URonq7tcamhVmCAzE0pXUmWCntC0 w5g0+JTATEJxqemnT3H1+keYiOnwjCV+5KPNNncmCE7/rNtI9iRPOXGGKYpFzbodt9/2tZU9 O/rEV5TpWSoMYOZt6yIJlwoIJpb36PYTtmKGts2x9LIpr50u/baSlkfmtAu8WA4srrDxnUuv cIsYHJ7FYvbiCJ/wvVkpmGpm+4xxIgNZocdCHCWvygiygOe1hB6Y3qndrtsZrDG/x4+moprr qceODqxrCcCSiLPFNfHMHp8ysbSvu/3yVgJt4iCqya0D9/yxqwsfXVStdPlRK9ZfXbwWr1B2 aupZw6YLctk+v41CY82yhd6Yy+SjY8sGv4vKlj/mROSEODp2oWzKyBg4dB6KsyjQwlSYpQmm GeYemksaSLS06FUOpnpmixkk/5HC8mg0OKUIXCVEthT5bo9Ndmi47F+hTtcqO65OpewYv80g dfrU12PHO/WNuodP7nRm7TQCCmeYd0On3dTWyq3ZJprdwlt2+ykXHOI/o7aZMtzX+CZjSBk8 W9isagPJeLdvE9TlmTvfZ6jSb3aCcoJezxL8+5uO39yHHQI6hhWQyEr0AHjAGvWuT+ILBYOG Rrz0FWslkkHZ9X6Uj7qZhAVhahke/pSFB37QHaOjX8fmQD/gbcFbJ0ThdGQWvjmshoZYIEwM d8jDHvrwh0AMohCHSMQixkEwT0BiXwqlw5bYDCtPhIIKYzDFFlRxIFE0wqOKsMUZdBELSmxC GDNVJP+pUTGLNEGjGNWogiq6zGZPocsRvvifJlrFjlKUI0D0CIj+4PGNR3CjFNkoFUJODY5/ rCMOf0BHGDTSWZqxlCwg0Rwm3eKSp3kNKwgkQMs8hpPT200pJEkabGXyeou8xCXfd0MwTYOO qZtFZrZRCiGJYlsbPIF19IfB/eRPNNqADH+Q0sr6eY8n8ouMLH85E39N8XqdyaA+Ujek6QAH g2PiRt4mlMEtMmgex7xljELZOiMppxTZIAj/cHCdp6jJQdF0l7QYASM2Xc5z9aTd3qbJuJfs QxVrWoFpyuMcWRDqlWf5pDYvAxdtwk4lDPUMrcbHoWk21ETaq2hqhveS4fz/AUkXzZxppFFR z5BUJSrrziAK2iOQemZdA+GTSSU6zAMNVGUCg0QwekOb12kPOUGipj7kedJNnWKUq1DpjoCa OpVZCUJ8aKpQa3A30RCqV92ByaFOJQiuXbUPXYUV0Yw2Mdvdix18HCoGEYqLu8GSR4QiFi79 SKh9kG5qWgXL8AqETlXWFRhZa103kGVBXKAqr+7iC5ZoR5m8LeApeUOkmizYVY7eMoHPoOBO 3Vk6wu5IE0/yTlxXillkDUhzE3sdZun5OoSmVS2GsSrGAoG0BEEsGgir18ZKdiCWcKxdP/MO Le8om6x9x60JZU5mmSUvEalEuP86JDIfWzLQimxZ/6rJ2kohWt3MTYsWDLoTiUr2EKstUU29 etJOxTuxhuk0eWvpSXj14aNfjMyP1z0Oa2U2tPXOTHP+Io0NikLgr+6mtnKTnVcheImumlFn C95ZKucWrqIUaHgupF1kGjaTWkZzlJFJhjRGLN5ZUlfEI07niEd8UGya674oBpZ3tbdiZMnx cpRZ8UPCe1dkorcP6tXuSqcbpCE3Ur5h8vBRNTGcW+pYqZcx1pC4ZOEOtlbHr1VBgYH7O2xZ DhjQAtJD/YY6MZNviv8bs1mrY5kt4bCLnB1IOhOkXfrpqqKyWGp7rByhGl0mxID9aOcudzf/ GugXrQt05hrbz5HCs35xBv8xhqa6TWXWgkOGxiCZvvQlyB7ZlJdGD00ZGs0zh1WtdBxanE/0 qEgnEgVbtl4GERzB/3Wy1mcWMNGmwb9/UhIh+02HUrLXuWzRyoKhzhY7LPzdiWarzbQsczKd kd3SLZPYrNlKtsh3XQ0H2JLZkqw/ERJNFDRbfJ2OrzCga8F1f0mcAvYXaiHVy20Emz/SzAIJ XfbgJdyGcizetVKFxcrMpHgmPukLidPRNM6kWFgB7wwltyeN3so4FxOvuMBvBY3baJw7wKrK bSz+W7ukY+HYQfnIAQ5yiJQ8UhEXEK+lNnCBHLxRCI85FVpoR55P2IhAt2G+VVDMoBv96EhP utL/l870pjudi69+utTb8MipW/3qWGe6QqgSSpTZxoDMjBySSJ31sgNh61/q3Si2dc+vuy6q KunPz81O9xig/cu3xRTXtPYbOhmy7oBvAdpJZbYj8fa3bxtFXwPPeBoMXoTckRTNccYuCjb+ 8oIP7cCG4rndNVrN6CCFu7JROGpj/vTbuVRUVLjOBl4yqoBFz+UI3W/U2556t889FTyo+95X Isu+D77wh0/84hv/+MgXAwxJYsKQ/GT5SIiKm24QdRyMh4bKPVFNKSeLV04yb+YLWAgZeTW5 6evvXtQ1T3LT/XBoP481ZAf6k8CxeolROjmoPllGXBO6bZr0UWUzJuMk//iAD4YnM6oyBKlw OCmCMj1gX15xKPZEgLYEf+yyKiUUOcBHBNI3f7A2dzzwDJxhGjVUIgQGDcWzMN5nKpfwIh5I A0xhV7j0glrxQPkBOR5XKhYYFZRiBYHwE5W0Zh+zOb5kHw04L4pHGjZTPt7UTepXb9xGKkb4 Gje4KvuWDEJWNFAyLzOzCd9QFECoTtHhIiBWQKVkeCGkMRuFHMaxHtynhLcEGeeBgLDxUTPx LO/DNvIjOKMhIpcRClO4NvrjHVfzGBioBWVoS9ThhclFODezIgIDHnhSJTZzOVGmiEixFmdy V2v3iGhyiZvTChWnXY7CF2PxJ9GShwmYgG8SJP/zgCTV9HZtsi7NwGDn53mpZjoZs4QVNSi2 sggwMVucw4eRUyE4xiSEtg4ZUis9oiQ96IN8sSeGlYcHEhZfFC+SmA0ouC6U8ih7wgh66Ce2 hQ7XiCyLlFKgUmfoojOi0GE8pjYHkXepol42s2DjJyaH0igziBMrBHkZo0Ot4yHTyI8IEoxK oTT0NoTFgSjLolOJ8yDMQVZakILVaBCDsoX96CKyMpAFsy4kZErhlmD28y3Y2BvGphejCHvj IkLP10x3+IPpAoa0KDHp4nAIwzh0KGENmAolMzU25TjhV1Zp8ThjgYduc4S5wIejsh1M0Q7h 8pA1pBvPWAX7glXlwor/U3mNDYN3v6iDN+NjDLYrCMiQBQFQ6ZBFviIT3RYlFsMsFpSDdqJV LtiOyFQuh3iR8dgx+biTFjkXGTmVpQhdp0CRQRGDfqKUR7iQ4hiWD8OIXxCGgPVjsRMwjeOJ nAiUKumKlqWZZIZamoiMBAVW3OSA0NE0PWEYLVITxpiJoxU7uqIrrcY2ZQRPI6hmzaOX4KiP djJB/aeLMsWNWdUki+kME7hhxrlsizMxSymVoJlgjZmHGoYFTIFK4Bc9KZdvgchASbgZvHiG EfQ9JxCISUmEfraERdeA3zVe5tOGvKRJMPGHNFQ8Y2iXZrgZkfN++JibfOl60gGHWCQzTmWd //xwHN6Hn+gGGC2SoCujfk8ZPo5ZPxthf2JRezAgTO/QfMknbOxHoUwAfSKBoRn6Yu0ZoiRa oiZ6oiiaoiq6oiw6AgRQADBKAAEgAwJQAERAAAQAADUqACJQAAPQRk9IRRtIEwhkAgEAo0hK ADxKBD7aoz/qA03qpOwEgjswRmeHTlMJA9MnBDg6AC+aozFQozeaozX6pFFqbgkypIRHf5tm pAVAAAPgpTD6pEIQpWfKA2d6pzSgf4Ghpj7QGFn6AlsaBDgqAoUapjY6BIUaAAMwowCgp7h3 gS9gpSHIWm66pAAQAC+KqUCgpFIKpXQKqTLApzVAqX9KgwFUBIVao/9gmqkvGqMF4Kg1mqSJ WgKamqQzyqow6qpIyqkDgKRvmqNHKgCzuqtoWjvVqT0bph1fl1WUwYhRVXTrZDHKczIkMKzX GqW3Oqck8KsxKqvfCgBfGq46GgDFWqsicKSvWgDE2qsjcK4vqqPAeq7puq5L+qtf+oHRxEvz Q0wuCWLrQ4gRxE3jxz+q81xuWJ2PtQdvUSW+ZLBTphnvM58usK7smq5zKqexKq8+6q3oirFv Gqcwaq4xKgBH2rEv+qT4KrJvmqnsyqghKxXk9mgc4jl9t7AYpY1us3jgNGgDMg3u9mDYSgKL GqNyCqYr660zOqct+6pwaqzpurK2iqQe+7T/GzurLGujMAunW/ujJxunKQsA3iqj+rqJ7uEl ybJsOLIi8/RoaTGLU0aJloaLsmknpei2s4k3qWUiJqI7FQun3sqjL+qot7q0ZOuyHyuuF5uu PMqqM7qpLhqrrPquLTu0oipChHaYQ4gOsIFsUSl2eik1t4isnDG0LpqjkGuo7Dq5GPujb2qu jxulNeqoIwCpJ5urLSuvPPq6IFu7ofqkqau4W6tl5ogiv8I0WfMhQgM2Z3UwLFgtHTM0qTKT gLIK16Is7MIUCDaPL3CoR/qjcJqtAWC68moCh1oCs6u6wAqj7Uq74iqsi3u5NbRcELeSnGtn vrazNvUkWYEM7xWU/xjLqY+Kuq3qsu26vi07q2B6vulLAra7uEM7rOQrpp/6qMCLwOz6q7DV lJtyDxvjcvfhkQ9CZyE5OD4ZMEP4XdpUKjuhJIL5HR05ZcbbcYl0vk1bwLP7vUSbuPFqAg2c snEaxCSLqZoKv0sqv1GyDjyjetpIMhOCUHQ5JftWEBKKAhPcpD0sAjvKqkEcp0t6q+Dbqg3s u5cawAGsw5FLxp8KxF0MsxtMlmtzL2fhNMs7wiJZOpFqt/kLCI5DIkehn3dyKzC1edlANn+r uj+Kr7i7sWGruImryLwqr476q09axD16sbdqxBWcUD8STYvDxOQoMG12aYlDZQlyZkBbE/+Z NgKmq7Riy7uzOr5veq8vW8sETLnua8FlbMBm3Mivqsa6/MqVXKga7I8QZLbEJGqWVS6Ss3hv 8TfqAjd5I7cGw5uR0sf20irQTLeDjCKauYEWe7gWO7K8ur4nMM5kurHqS7UgC6yaHMwRmG/Z IyeErCF7AIbqh4VF6nrNpF2r3M7ASrvjvKTn+rony77vi8sl8MBfDMGYPM61mqd0Os6JXKv2 ZyZPOEHjNxbrU0O5tF0iNx2iXJ/jdxO0FZEhM5gk3YOgnD9WKgBdjL5BDNO0C9NeTKe2KsRR 67423agl0MXEmqk+LbZLaqH3JwMeagJdPAACrKNBrNRe3K1MrcX/RDzUIzDVOU24Q82oNT3T dIrVRE0CPS2rdIp4LZoGlAqiZ416lMp7a/3WcB3Xcj3XdF3Xdj0FLeynLRB1qanXd30ReV0Y WiovpvrXgA0Vfg1bg23Mhu0PfRgr33eghiVLM0ud56Ea7eGvgng3EIsbktrY8NBOfjZXyRnY mDi3S/luSqyMrC23K1nYoO0KVQWeSmPa32h5P2OacFMoA1kqfR3bC3GC7aJbIcw31fVAGtNV gIyPP3mEsA3cnRBrEFTbiH3Hm5sSjTEaMCPF24iU0P0P0q1aTuY8z9xm7oJDjAaLCUYjru0l HPrdsBDe0DY+5P1rRWpCGg2egAKxKymg//D93wAe4AI+4ARe4AZ+4Aie4Aq+4Aze4A7+4BAe 4RI+4RRe4RZ+4Rie4Rq+4Rze4R7+4SAe4iI+4iRe4sT3ABGQ4iluACKQACie4g+QACrg4ioe 4yNgACqu4gmQ4xHwACkQASyOAgzA4wAw5DUe5EZe4wDw4jpeAgzAACXwAD4+AjSe4g0Q5EKe 4wyA5QBgAA1Q4zI+AjZOAhEA5QDw5T2O5BFA5lCO42EOADue41MuAjhOAjhO5GV+42je42++ 5H0OAHl+AlWe5jceAW++41g+6GN+5zm+5Dz+5y3O5GO+5HPe5YZO5ZL+5lLe4iluAg9g5iKw 6Y6e4wnA6FZO5/88DuR2ruqF/uZeDuZUHgEIMAKdLgJDzuK3zgIJwAAo/uS4DuO8nuKgXgJx /uloPuU4/ulPvuVP3uMMAOmcXulOXubLXuTUbuS/vuzPTunazuXW3ueiPupP/uLQzujjvuKc 7uxGPucozuV5vuMPgOa2vua03uaXTufN/ungfu+2PuTKDuhmXuzN3uNizuoiEOhRLuzBfu9u Hutq7uwvbub5/uTcvuzebu3OjuZmHu6WHubrzgAaH+o+7u8n8OkkIOpS3u3Jfu72ruy+vuoP gOUND+fAvu6obuYIgO6OPu8Xn+WxHvM3juKQDu8y3+sdbwIzjwIv3vPWPu0O3/RRLu3/087v ok7ysW7wBT/s8G7p/O7oDRDqOg/wNM/iBuDx9H7w9v7nSY/qtX7yc57nd77vXz/qWI7wI2D1 bE/2/I7oNA/0dC70Ys7uUk8CRB/0qs7xDV/4f3/4Uk7wJT/sKC/tSU/wa18Cdz7nDR/3Jx8B c+/4Rh7mnM/zLjDkBe/td+7pWG/rqA7plU/4ZW73JED6sX/27Q71bq8CSR7km57sJrDjcx/r w97ivw7ptf/ifv/ujn/3Zy/2lV/5Qz7kfx7ueQ79qM/ixh/ksA/oUo/jX5/0fF/7q077gq8C YU/nYY74l17+XX7+KQ7toQ75U87xR0/z3d/1lq/kR0/9Cc/i/18OAgAQNdEDIFEiMpEhwrHc wqQslm9s37ARAYOv36oHeESOrl4rmGwGTwAo8IR0FmGt3/JxSmV3Uu3SiOwlVMdHWhphsIC6 abIGJ8rwPtNoLPLaKaGpebWJvOWp3QDqAaS98Mjk/I1dBYX9NBhRxhBlbippblpG/TmpcDkN nZaJEJXcEdbJpK2kIbw+RSDEzYHSuSLebMkIxwn9PDAsM6yGxYAB/MANvzHTIbGRMTOseHH7 Aqc8GADW9gDGEJv5wUQDtpwYpynSBDYGhxHfxqSPwPmDRuhEvH+JnnFq9GgakzL+vjHzxXCU H0/G0AGhhk4Zs3QQlxlIllFHMnCdZP8lwBPQnZppNMCc6fWLTI12pm4AiZFgGZKQik4iNHWq 4QwXfGjKWFlURBtGF4O1O2emFRle6WBd5BJnR6xn+Fj58YeoZzWrUrBqDKaxZzJpPx/1wQjj oU0xoALiOcoOSdAjaT22I9IiC76DpgYrCUeHV590JPSum2kPQIlnhoqmdXuisNugJZdVrrY0 jcbJc+sipXNUjqSfUCUqc6Q3WJ2HGf0yXbKOYWGFJDq2Egvn8p7alW4nLZOMr1tRdF6E1qmX LqjoMODiVWM99wsvXBgn/StlpUrlrg27BWJrdvq56nEgd5QZ1GQu5KSVoOpemyPmnDkn1s8s qW1F2S4F9oP/GoJKSJGCMOWwFwd/CSBBTTY6NMGYPxDCoR6EL7QRkn/nNTLbJ5wcYqEJGAKh 4Rgc3uAgNU04995l9g2R3xzUbcJFAzmylt0KPgLZxWashZcginsMeRSA+RRXxIXHgNeEDvSA R9ZMwPhAyopGQHhKEakI0dkNE113nmlcBkgFH14+s6Y/9DihoJsXeflTdrEEsVadtF1ipmxx OjSGMXlmsecgrGhEZithRuGLbVic6eV9SvSpB6RV6JCOg+HEdppQl+hBWnqqACVdoqyEMU5x AvZ1w05nRjSTAdzMwE0zLCh2q2K76pTZrK7suhM3tugazrA+WFbrL7jSuoxlXo0p/y0t1mph 0hQkzecrU1l00wkz0+YRq7FwbOesuCDJmsW57PZwK7ZMHeutD+Pq5C6w14WRQBHv7rqvvywk O4OyEuE7TL/9zrelww9DHLHEE1NcscUXY5wxxOFq3LHHH4McMpghkVyyySejnLLKK7Pcsssv wxyzzDPTXLPNN+Ocs84789yzzb8oELTQQxNdtNFHI5200ksz3bTTT0MdtdRTU1211VdjnbXW W0+tmMhfgx222GOTXbbZZ6Odttprs92222/DHbfcc9Ndt91345233nvz3bfffwMeuOCDE164 4YcjnrjiizPeuOOPQx655JNTXrnll2Oeueabc96555+DHv+66KOTXrrpp6Oeuuqrs96666/D Hrvss9Neu+2345677rvz3rvvvwMfvPDDE1885BBIkLwDEkOwwA0OJJ88BGc3b7z1k1d/gATO Q1y9DA4sLwIE05ft/fXnN+69+Q6vLwL4MCxAPtnto1+/4dUvIMEBMECvPP/JL0B70vte+AAA gfAdAHkAhMEB+rc9/Ykgf9F7H/iQtz8Hjs95Eiyg/Tr4NwVKQH4OgMD+Erg87R0ggeLjXgwc GEIYjE8ECeReDAEgwf3lj4YSWB70yDfCEiLPedsz4P48aES+qW96+Sui+PY3RBiykH8OiF8L 5QcA7QFghDFYIgAgCEMeki9/MZj/oQGteMQz4s1825Ng9BaYQBKu8HnLO+D/2pg8E8pAf1jc Ig/DR8UYZC+IaByk3dS4ADFuApH0ex8K3cdB/lmRi14UXx9lOEkyWjKKhNxk29QnAfHBMYuf pKIiNZlFP5JPewiMoSojeEdR6rCS7oNjAreXwBQO8Y+c3CXaQBhKUUqviAqkoSnf50gZgrCA tVSeF9m4Q1m6L3oZBGb46MfLa1pujx8zIza76bgcIvOR3hzn6uI3QXKiM53qXCc72+nOd8Iz nvLkZANF1jztmTJiiBzjEx2my3nO04Ihu2c/KQY9TR4UYv8EKDxVKc6MWXNiIzTjAh+2UIa6 E3zaNOAI/wdYxxB6j42hrB4EH+g/ZE6QmwecIvzit8oJQvCAII1eIyPITYxes5HmQx756JhF Wi4QnD+NY0mHSMZW2vCFMjigLklIxzdaMqY7tOkxRTBJnHbTmNqsoQ2VeMkhFpSlJHUiC9+3 vouCFYfT06IWGRjTAv5xjxfFKi/t+ETzkdKMBLXr9MbaRSaalYlX5OYQzarBtWoypixsqvMi SldC/vOPePUqP4UoWCj+NbPHPKsZG4nCTyZ1qG7d32ThR0LQPhabVzVgYxfbU6AWNpRc9Osk 35c/PyrVrTD0KRa1ltqPxhYGIcxnagd5USoGF5gg5Z5IiD0C2r5UeWbcJxevhQ3QZe5QsaZt IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqum0cqOl7zJvCzg5prKuLe3vvKdL33ra9/74tm0vt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_53784355==.OLA-- From DianeKey@laravazquez.com Sun Oct 16 03:06:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ER2au-00031I-G1 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:06:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA15072 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [59.188.171.64] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ER2ly-0006eS-2a for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:17:35 -0400 Received: from lVaJ@localhost by uqY5.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:35:36 +0600 Message-ID: From: "Paula Abbott" Reply-To: "Paula Abbott" To: shirley.bullock@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: AutoCAD Software titles available for Download Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:41:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: DianeKey@laravazquez.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--C4w9VaPNJWxHNGAY" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 qb9 ----C4w9VaPNJWxHNGAY Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable m
Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
SEARCH

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

  

 = ON SALE NOW!

 1 = Office Pro 2003
 2 Ad= obe Photoshop 9.0
 3 Wi= ndows XP Pro
 4 Adobe= Acrobat 7 Pro
 5 Flash= MX 2004
 6 Corel Dr= aw 12
 7 Norton Antiv= irus 2005
 <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>8 Windows= 2003 Server
 9 Alias= Maya 6 Wavefrt
 10 = Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
   Microsoft
  = Symantec
   Adobe
  Custom= ers also bought
  these other items...

Micro= soft Office Professional Edition *2003*
Microsoft

Choose:
 

You Save:



Availability: Available for INSTANT down= load!
Coupon Code: w8Q5PkvZ
 

Sales Rank: #1
System requirements  |  Other Versions
D= ate Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 142246 reviews. Write a review.

List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99
$429.01 (86%)

Adobe Photoshop CS2= V 9.0
Adob= e

Choose:
 

List Price:$599.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$529.01 (90%)



<= b>Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: U7xPelRZ
 

Sales Rank: #= 2
System= requirements  |  Other V= ersions
Date Coupon Expires: Augu= st 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 17729 reviews. Write= a review.

Microsoft Windows XP Professiona= l or Longhorn Edition
Microsoft

<= /p>

Choose:=
<= select name=3Dedit1> =  
<= /tr>
List Price:$279.00
Price:$49.99
Y= ou Save:$229.01 (85%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT downloa= d!
Coupon Code: 0bVPlj
 

Sales Rank: #3
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date C= oupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
Aver= age Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 17125 reviews. Write a review.

Adobe Acro= bat Professional V 7.0
Adobe

Choose:
 
=
List Pr= ice:$499.00
Pric= e:$69.99
You Save:$429.01 (85%)

<= br>
Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon= Code: ZKSFZ7OT
 

Sales Ra= nk: #4 System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires:= August 31st, 2005
Average Customer R= eview:3D"5 Based on 153479 reviews. Write a review.

----C4w9VaPNJWxHNGAY-- From tuttle@jldavidson.com Sun Oct 16 18:47:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERHHb-0001XV-5m; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:47:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29689; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 70-101-49-150.dsl2-plymouth.roc.ny.frontiernet.net ([70.101.49.150]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERHSl-0000Du-9C; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:58:46 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([70.101.49.150]) by hotmail.com (Sendmail 8.7.7) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT89244 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:46:55 -0600 Message-ID: <340e493n.6397368@hotmail.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=workstation; d=hotmail.com; b=uzATbANllJtGtutCJbnI7PXwf9i4DB47CDxZpTe8ZfhRIASzNkDJIzmTrJMJ7bKvnKg2QV6MxpTmtknP; X-Display: Full X-List: hayden.usenet Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:46:55 -0600 From: "Edgardo Quinones" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pr@ietf.org Cc: presentations@ietf.org, proceedings@ietf.org, proto-team@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org, ps2.slim.incentive@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org, pwe3-admin@ietf.org, pwot@ietf.org, pwot-admin@ietf.org, pwtmzl2tpext-admin@ietf.org, qmda-intercept-asrg@ietf.org, qpcaorpsec@ietf.org, quest@ietf.org, qutcxrpsec-admin@ietf.org, r-wg-admin@ietf.org, rafts@ietf.org, ran@ietf.org, raven@ietf.org Subject: Mortagge ratee approvedd Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_15950789==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_15950789==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
may papa not circumscription not blend not phantom some poll may az in innkeeper see horde , among some vivace see hermitian it billionth on masterful and knives Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_15950789==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="epic.9.gif" Content-ID: <6.0.0.19.0.05133203915836.39692853@murray.yahoo.com.4> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="epic.9.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhtgHYAMQAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZzJmZmZlmzGZm zGZmZmYzzDMzMzMAzAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAC2AdgAAAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrVqv2Kx2y+16v+CweEwum8/otHrNbrvf8Lh8Tq/b7/gf5ECCLFQLEAB+eYWG h1V7fX8pgYOMiJGSk0OKI4SNgpiUnJ2eM5YimAcQEhKWjpiBpqGfrq+cpaazfwcSDiILEnyp f7qMDruww8SGrYQQuCOOvQASkAAOysXU1XDHf7KzpgC9tnzLgtbj5GjYjyfNzyTS5e7vYOe/ IqS+mr7r0cLo8P3+UucAkKKV616uWZZs/VvIkI0DaA0jSpxIsaLFixgzatzIsaPHjyBDihxJ suQ4XSRu/41o52ITvXwuFkzz4TKGo0Ezy9wkoevAzioscdQUsu+GA3Epiu74CWSfLqRDU9S0 BXGFzCBRY4pLloZpt11epQS9kfWH0hpHV5zNEbYHJmn71kqtKuMqkLIs2upEakLvk7E28PaQ axYcD786WO4ihJKerFYCEdoKFgycLlaGL5sCLCIYZnqeYT6bhcsWq4Okp4VWpK1eNwiPDa92 +ZPQgdCMFK7M+TX1t5eQwML+rPDmQFN0j99CuupUWoGPk2urHG048hG3CUZm58D0Ke4p+RxX xdfPZJUjnMaONg32bp6CAq3XrCy0skDB8H3Wt661EJSkdIPLc5MdZNgltVwnzP881R3ESCm8 wQbOcxJCp8x1rvHDIISiWPLcTYydwos4R4l33SIvdSgeV7p1ltOGKr2FHjMiNljcVuJkiN2M 33314HcF+lgCKTmawkcwOXI1iCKklCYBePzsGE5k961T2wKmQbRgPpW1aKQIML32lSI77VOi hb3xwqUg3wQo5hDftKOQkkoWZIJt+QgT5kPOHFinnSY89xIfMLGEiVJctQWiPeB809OOEN3U jqCRHdAieyUgistNo4nC6KA3NiglilM6A417fza2El+/URonq7tcamhVmCAzE0pXUmWCntC0 w5g0+JTATEJxqemnT3H1+keYiOnwjCV+5KPNNncmCE7/rNtI9iRPOXGGKYpFzbodt9/2tZU9 O/rEV5TpWSoMYOZt6yIJlwoIJpb36PYTtmKGts2x9LIpr50u/baSlkfmtAu8WA4srrDxnUuv cIsYHJ7FYvbiCJ/wvVkpmGpm+4xxIgNZocdCHCWvygiygOe1hB6Y3qndrtsZrDG/x4+moprr qceODqxrCcCSiLPFNfHMHp8ysbSvu/3yVgJt4iCqya0D9/yxqwsfXVStdPlRK9ZfXbwWr1B2 aupZw6YLctk+v41CY82yhd6Yy+SjY8sGv4vKlj/mROSEODp2oWzKyBg4dB6KsyjQwlSYpQmm GeYemksaSLS06FUOpnpmixkk/5HC8mg0OKUIXCVEthT5bo9Ndmi47F+hTtcqO65OpewYv80g dfrU12PHO/WNuodP7nRm7TQCCmeYd0On3dTWyq3ZJprdwlt2+ykXHOI/o7aZMtzX+CZjSBk8 W9isagPJeLdvE9TlmTvfZ6jSb3aCcoJezxL8+5uO39yHHQI6hhWQyEr0AHjAGvWuT+ILBYOG Rrz0FWslkkHZ9X6Uj7qZhAVhahke/pSFB37QHaOjX8fmQD/gbcFbJ0ThdGQWvjmshoZYIEwM d8jDHvrwh0AMohCHSMQixkEwT0BiXwqlw5bYDCtPhIIKYzDFFlRxIFE0wqOKsMUZdBELSmxC GDNVJP+pUTGLNEGjGNWogiq6zGZPocsRvvifJlrFjlKUI0D0CIj+4PGNR3CjFNkoFUJODY5/ rCMOf0BHGDTSWZqxlCwg0Rwm3eKSp3kNKwgkQMs8hpPT200pJEkabGXyeou8xCXfd0MwTYOO qZtFZrZRCiGJYlsbPIF19IfB/eRPNNqADH+Q0sr6eY8n8ouMLH85E39N8XqdyaA+Ujek6QAH g2PiRt4mlMEtMmgex7xljELZOiMppxTZIAj/cHCdp6jJQdF0l7QYASM2Xc5z9aTd3qbJuJfs QxVrWoFpyuMcWRDqlWf5pDYvAxdtwk4lDPUMrcbHoWk21ETaq2hqhveS4fz/AUkXzZxppFFR z5BUJSrrziAK2iOQemZdA+GTSSU6zAMNVGUCg0QwekOb12kPOUGipj7kedJNnWKUq1DpjoCa OpVZCUJ8aKpQa3A30RCqV92ByaFOJQiuXbUPXYUV0Yw2Mdvdix18HCoGEYqLu8GSR4QiFi79 SKh9kG5qWgXL8AqETlXWFRhZa103kGVBXKAqr+7iC5ZoR5m8LeApeUOkmizYVY7eMoHPoOBO 3Vk6wu5IE0/yTlxXillkDUhzE3sdZun5OoSmVS2GsSrGAoG0BEEsGgir18ZKdiCWcKxdP/MO Le8om6x9x60JZU5mmSUvEalEuP86JDIfWzLQimxZ/6rJ2kohWt3MTYsWDLoTiUr2EKstUU29 etJOxTuxhuk0eWvpSXj14aNfjMyP1z0Oa2U2tPXOTHP+Io0NikLgr+6mtnKTnVcheImumlFn C95ZKucWrqIUaHgupF1kGjaTWkZzlJFJhjRGLN5ZUlfEI07niEd8UGya674oBpZ3tbdiZMnx cpRZ8UPCe1dkorcP6tXuSqcbpCE3Ur5h8vBRNTGcW+pYqZcx1pC4ZOEOtlbHr1VBgYH7O2xZ DhjQAtJD/YY6MZNviv8bs1mrY5kt4bCLnB1IOhOkXfrpqqKyWGp7rByhGl0mxID9aOcudzf/ GugXrQt05hrbz5HCs35xBv8xhqa6TWXWgkOGxiCZvvQlyB7ZlJdGD00ZGs0zh1WtdBxanE/0 qEgnEgVbtl4GERzB/3Wy1mcWMNGmwb9/UhIh+02HUrLXuWzRyoKhzhY7LPzdiWarzbQsczKd kd3SLZPYrNlKtsh3XQ0H2JLZkqw/ERJNFDRbfJ2OrzCga8F1f0mcAvYXaiHVy20Emz/SzAIJ XfbgJdyGcizetVKFxcrMpHgmPukLidPRNM6kWFgB7wwltyeN3so4FxOvuMBvBY3baJw7wKrK bSz+W7ukY+HYQfnIAQ5yiJQ8UhEXEK+lNnCBHLxRCI85FVpoR55P2IhAt2G+VVDMoBv96EhP utL/l870pjudi69+utTb8MipW/3qWGe6QqgSSpTZxoDMjBySSJ31sgNh61/q3Si2dc+vuy6q KunPz81O9xig/cu3xRTXtPYbOhmy7oBvAdpJZbYj8fa3bxtFXwPPeBoMXoTckRTNccYuCjb+ 8oIP7cCG4rndNVrN6CCFu7JROGpj/vTbuVRUVLjOBl4yqoBFz+UI3W/U2556t889FTyo+95X Isu+D77wh0/84hv/+MgXAwxJYsKQ/GT5SIiKm24QdRyMh4bKPVFNKSeLV04yb+YLWAgZeTW5 6evvXtQ1T3LT/XBoP481ZAf6k8CxeolROjmoPllGXBO6bZr0UWUzJuMk//iAD4YnM6oyBKlw OCmCMj1gX15xKPZEgLYEf+yyKiUUOcBHBNI3f7A2dzzwDJxhGjVUIgQGDcWzMN5nKpfwIh5I A0xhV7j0glrxQPkBOR5XKhYYFZRiBYHwE5W0Zh+zOb5kHw04L4pHGjZTPt7UTepXb9xGKkb4 Gje4KvuWDEJWNFAyLzOzCd9QFECoTtHhIiBWQKVkeCGkMRuFHMaxHtynhLcEGeeBgLDxUTPx LO/DNvIjOKMhIpcRClO4NvrjHVfzGBioBWVoS9ThhclFODezIgIDHnhSJTZzOVGmiEixFmdy V2v3iGhyiZvTChWnXY7CF2PxJ9GShwmYgG8SJP/zgCTV9HZtsi7NwGDn53mpZjoZs4QVNSi2 sggwMVucw4eRUyE4xiSEtg4ZUis9oiQ96IN8sSeGlYcHEhZfFC+SmA0ouC6U8ih7wgh66Ce2 hQ7XiCyLlFKgUmfoojOi0GE8pjYHkXepol42s2DjJyaH0igziBMrBHkZo0Ot4yHTyI8IEoxK oTT0NoTFgSjLolOJ8yDMQVZakILVaBCDsoX96CKyMpAFsy4kZErhlmD28y3Y2BvGphejCHvj IkLP10x3+IPpAoa0KDHp4nAIwzh0KGENmAolMzU25TjhV1Zp8ThjgYduc4S5wIejsh1M0Q7h 8pA1pBvPWAX7glXlwor/U3mNDYN3v6iDN+NjDLYrCMiQBQFQ6ZBFviIT3RYlFsMsFpSDdqJV LtiOyFQuh3iR8dgx+biTFjkXGTmVpQhdp0CRQRGDfqKUR7iQ4hiWD8OIXxCGgPVjsRMwjeOJ nAiUKumKlqWZZIZamoiMBAVW3OSA0NE0PWEYLVITxpiJoxU7uqIrrcY2ZQRPI6hmzaOX4KiP djJB/aeLMsWNWdUki+kME7hhxrlsizMxSymVoJlgjZmHGoYFTIFK4Bc9KZdvgchASbgZvHiG EfQ9JxCISUmEfraERdeA3zVe5tOGvKRJMPGHNFQ8Y2iXZrgZkfN++JibfOl60gGHWCQzTmWd //xwHN6Hn+gGGC2SoCujfk8ZPo5ZPxthf2JRezAgTO/QfMknbOxHoUwAfSKBoRn6Yu0ZoiRa oiZ6oiiaoiq6oiw6AgRQADBKAAEgAwJQAERAAAQAADUqACJQAAPQRk9IRRtIEwhkAgEAo0hK ADxKBD7aoz/qA03qpOwEgjswRmeHTlMJA9MnBDg6AC+aozFQozeaozX6pFFqbgkypIRHf5tm pAVAAAPgpTD6pEIQpWfKA2d6pzSgf4Ghpj7QGFn6AlsaBDgqAoUapjY6BIUaAAMwowCgp7h3 gS9gpSHIWm66pAAQAC+KqUCgpFIKpXQKqTLApzVAqX9KgwFUBIVao/9gmqkvGqMF4Kg1mqSJ WgKamqQzyqow6qpIyqkDgKRvmqNHKgCzuqtoWjvVqT0bph1fl1WUwYhRVXTrZDHKczIkMKzX GqW3Oqck8KsxKqvfCgBfGq46GgDFWqsicKSvWgDE2qsjcK4vqqPAeq7puq5L+qtf+oHRxEvz Q0wuCWLrQ4gRxE3jxz+q81xuWJ2PtQdvUSW+ZLBTphnvM58usK7smq5zKqexKq8+6q3oirFv Gqcwaq4xKgBH2rEv+qT4KrJvmqnsyqghKxXk9mgc4jl9t7AYpY1us3jgNGgDMg3u9mDYSgKL GqNyCqYr660zOqct+6pwaqzpurK2iqQe+7T/GzurLGujMAunW/ujJxunKQsA3iqj+rqJ7uEl ybJsOLIi8/RoaTGLU0aJloaLsmknpei2s4k3qWUiJqI7FQun3sqjL+qot7q0ZOuyHyuuF5uu PMqqM7qpLhqrrPquLTu0oipChHaYQ4gOsIFsUSl2eik1t4isnDG0LpqjkGuo7Dq5GPujb2qu jxulNeqoIwCpJ5urLSuvPPq6IFu7ofqkqau4W6tl5ogiv8I0WfMhQgM2Z3UwLFgtHTM0qTKT gLIK16Is7MIUCDaPL3CoR/qjcJqtAWC68moCh1oCs6u6wAqj7Uq74iqsi3u5NbRcELeSnGtn vrazNvUkWYEM7xWU/xjLqY+Kuq3qsu26vi07q2B6vulLAra7uEM7rOQrpp/6qMCLwOz6q7DV lJtyDxvjcvfhkQ9CZyE5OD4ZMEP4XdpUKjuhJIL5HR05ZcbbcYl0vk1bwLP7vUSbuPFqAg2c snEaxCSLqZoKv0sqv1GyDjyjetpIMhOCUHQ5JftWEBKKAhPcpD0sAjvKqkEcp0t6q+Dbqg3s u5cawAGsw5FLxp8KxF0MsxtMlmtzL2fhNMs7wiJZOpFqt/kLCI5DIkehn3dyKzC1edlANn+r uj+Kr7i7sWGruImryLwqr476q09axD16sbdqxBWcUD8STYvDxOQoMG12aYlDZQlyZkBbE/+Z NgKmq7Riy7uzOr5veq8vW8sETLnua8FlbMBm3Mivqsa6/MqVXKga7I8QZLbEJGqWVS6Ss3hv 8TfqAjd5I7cGw5uR0sf20irQTLeDjCKauYEWe7gWO7K8ur4nMM5kurHqS7UgC6yaHMwRmG/Z IyeErCF7AIbqh4VF6nrNpF2r3M7ASrvjvKTn+rony77vi8sl8MBfDMGYPM61mqd0Os6JXKv2 ZyZPOEHjNxbrU0O5tF0iNx2iXJ/jdxO0FZEhM5gk3YOgnD9WKgBdjL5BDNO0C9NeTKe2KsRR 67423agl0MXEmqk+LbZLaqH3JwMeagJdPAACrKNBrNRe3K1MrcX/RDzUIzDVOU24Q82oNT3T dIrVRE0CPS2rdIp4LZoGlAqiZ416lMp7a/3WcB3Xcj3XdF3Xdj0FLeynLRB1qanXd30ReV0Y WiovpvrXgA0Vfg1bg23Mhu0PfRgr33eghiVLM0ud56Ea7eGvgng3EIsbktrY8NBOfjZXyRnY mDi3S/luSqyMrC23K1nYoO0KVQWeSmPa32h5P2OacFMoA1kqfR3bC3GC7aJbIcw31fVAGtNV gIyPP3mEsA3cnRBrEFTbiH3Hm5sSjTEaMCPF24iU0P0P0q1aTuY8z9xm7oJDjAaLCUYjru0l HPrdsBDe0DY+5P1rRWpCGg2egAKxKymg//D93wAe4AI+4ARe4AZ+4Aie4Aq+4Aze4A7+4BAe 4RI+4RRe4RZ+4Rie4Rq+4Rze4R7+4SAe4iI+4iRe4sT3ABGQ4iluACKQACie4g+QACrg4ioe 4yNgACqu4gmQ4xHwACkQASyOAgzA4wAw5DUe5EZe4wDw4jpeAgzAACXwAD4+AjSe4g0Q5EKe 4wyA5QBgAA1Q4zI+AjZOAhEA5QDw5T2O5BFA5lCO42EOADue41MuAjhOAjhO5GV+42je42++ 5H0OAHl+AlWe5jceAW++41g+6GN+5zm+5Dz+5y3O5GO+5HPe5YZO5ZL+5lLe4iluAg9g5iKw 6Y6e4wnA6FZO5/88DuR2ruqF/uZeDuZUHgEIMAKdLgJDzuK3zgIJwAAo/uS4DuO8nuKgXgJx /uloPuU4/ulPvuVP3uMMAOmcXulOXubLXuTUbuS/vuzPTunazuXW3ueiPupP/uLQzujjvuKc 7uxGPucozuV5vuMPgOa2vua03uaXTufN/ungfu+2PuTKDuhmXuzN3uNizuoiEOhRLuzBfu9u Hutq7uwvbub5/uTcvuzebu3OjuZmHu6WHubrzgAaH+o+7u8n8OkkIOpS3u3Jfu72ruy+vuoP gOUND+fAvu6obuYIgO6OPu8Xn+WxHvM3juKQDu8y3+sdbwIzjwIv3vPWPu0O3/RRLu3/087v ok7ysW7wBT/s8G7p/O7oDRDqOg/wNM/iBuDx9H7w9v7nSY/qtX7yc57nd77vXz/qWI7wI2D1 bE/2/I7oNA/0dC70Ys7uUk8CRB/0qs7xDV/4f3/4Uk7wJT/sKC/tSU/wa18Cdz7nDR/3Jx8B c+/4Rh7mnM/zLjDkBe/td+7pWG/rqA7plU/4ZW73JED6sX/27Q71bq8CSR7km57sJrDjcx/r w97ivw7ptf/ifv/ujn/3Zy/2lV/5Qz7kfx7ueQ79qM/ixh/ksA/oUo/jX5/0fF/7q077gq8C YU/nYY74l17+XX7+KQ7toQ75U87xR0/z3d/1lq/kR0/9Cc/i/18OAgAQNdEDIFEiMpEhwrHc wqQslm9s37ARAYOv36oHeESOrl4rmGwGTwAo8IR0FmGt3/JxSmV3Uu3SiOwlVMdHWhphsIC6 abIGJ8rwPtNoLPLaKaGpebWJvOWp3QDqAaS98Mjk/I1dBYX9NBhRxhBlbippblpG/TmpcDkN nZaJEJXcEdbJpK2kIbw+RSDEzYHSuSLebMkIxwn9PDAsM6yGxYAB/MANvzHTIbGRMTOseHH7 Aqc8GADW9gDGEJv5wUQDtpwYpynSBDYGhxHfxqSPwPmDRuhEvH+JnnFq9GgakzL+vjHzxXCU H0/G0AGhhk4Zs3QQlxlIllFHMnCdZP8lwBPQnZppNMCc6fWLTI12pm4AiZFgGZKQik4iNHWq 4QwXfGjKWFlURBtGF4O1O2emFRle6WBd5BJnR6xn+Fj58YeoZzWrUrBqDKaxZzJpPx/1wQjj oU0xoALiOcoOSdAjaT22I9IiC76DpgYrCUeHV590JPSum2kPQIlnhoqmdXuisNugJZdVrrY0 jcbJc+sipXNUjqSfUCUqc6Q3WJ2HGf0yXbKOYWGFJDq2Egvn8p7alW4nLZOMr1tRdF6E1qmX LqjoMODiVWM99wsvXBgn/StlpUrlrg27BWJrdvq56nEgd5QZ1GQu5KSVoOpemyPmnDkn1s8s qW1F2S4F9oP/GoJKSJGCMOWwFwd/CSBBTTY6NMGYPxDCoR6EL7QRkn/nNTLbJ5wcYqEJGAKh 4Rgc3uAgNU04995l9g2R3xzUbcJFAzmylt0KPgLZxWashZcginsMeRSA+RRXxIXHgNeEDvSA R9ZMwPhAyopGQHhKEakI0dkNE113nmlcBkgFH14+s6Y/9DihoJsXeflTdrEEsVadtF1ipmxx OjSGMXlmsecgrGhEZithRuGLbVic6eV9SvSpB6RV6JCOg+HEdppQl+hBWnqqACVdoqyEMU5x AvZ1w05nRjSTAdzMwE0zLCh2q2K76pTZrK7suhM3tugazrA+WFbrL7jSuoxlXo0p/y0t1mph 0hQkzecrU1l00wkz0+YRq7FwbOesuCDJmsW57PZwK7ZMHeutD+Pq5C6w14WRQBHv7rqvvywk O4OyEuE7TL/9zrelww9DHLHEE1NcscUXY5wxxOFq3LHHH4McMpghkVyyySejnLLKK7Pcsssv wxyzzDPTXLPNN+Ocs84789yzzb8oELTQQxNdtNFHI5200ksz3bTTT0MdtdRTU1211VdjnbXW W0+tmMhfgx222GOTXbbZZ6Odttprs92222/DHbfcc9Ndt91345233nvz3bfffwMeuOCDE164 4YcjnrjiizPeuOOPQx655JNTXrnll2Oeueabc96555+DHv+66KOTXrrpp6Oeuuqrs96666/D Hrvss9Neu+2345677rvz3rvvvwMfvPDDE1885BBIkLwDEkOwwA0OJJ88BGc3b7z1k1d/gATO Q1y9DA4sLwIE05ft/fXnN+69+Q6vLwL4MCxAPtnto1+/4dUvIMEBMECvPP/JL0B70vte+AAA gfAdAHkAhMEB+rc9/Ykgf9F7H/iQtz8Hjs95Eiyg/Tr4NwVKQH4OgMD+Erg87R0ggeLjXgwc GEIYjE8ECeReDAEgwf3lj4YSWB70yDfCEiLPedsz4P48aES+qW96+Sui+PY3RBiykH8OiF8L 5QcA7QFghDFYIgAgCEMeki9/MZj/oQGteMQz4s1825Ng9BaYQBKu8HnLO+D/2pg8E8pAf1jc Ig/DR8UYZC+IaByk3dS4ADFuApH0ex8K3cdB/lmRi14UXx9lOEkyWjKKhNxk29QnAfHBMYuf pKIiNZlFP5JPewiMoSojeEdR6rCS7oNjAreXwBQO8Y+c3CXaQBhKUUqviAqkoSnf50gZgrCA tVSeF9m4Q1m6L3oZBGb46MfLa1pujx8zIza76bgcIvOR3hzn6uI3QXKiM53qXCc72+nOd8Iz nvLkZANF1jztmTJiiBzjEx2my3nO04Ihu2c/KQY9TR4UYv8EKDxVKc6MWXNiIzTjAh+2UIa6 E3zaNOAI/wdYxxB6j42hrB4EH+g/ZE6QmwecIvzit8oJQvCAII1eIyPITYxes5HmQx756JhF Wi4QnD+NY0mHSMZW2vCFMjigLklIxzdaMqY7tOkxRTBJnHbTmNqsoQ2VeMkhFpSlJHUiC9+3 vouCFYfT06IWGRjTAv5xjxfFKi/t+ETzkdKMBLXr9MbaRSaalYlX5OYQzarBtWoypixsqvMi SldC/vOPePUqP4UoWCj+NbPHPKsZG4nCTyZ1qG7d32ThR0LQPhabVzVgYxfbU6AWNpRc9Osk 35c/PyrVrTD0KRa1lJxzKhYGIcxnagd5USoGF5gg5Z5IiGeqAr5UeWbcJxevYq9XZe5QsaZt IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqOOI3qOl7zJvCzg5prOGzf3vvKdL33ra9/74S6dVt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_15950789==.OLA-- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 18 12:20:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERuCx-0001Hh-JM for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:20:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12830 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERuOR-0002Yu-MZ for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:32:56 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9IG1FsL029647 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9IG1FRg002431 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:15 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9IG1BA0007629 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9IG1Bj04441; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:11 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:06 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> In-Reply-To: <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9IG1FA0012217 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9IG1FsL029647 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable maarten wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > The prefix problem is actually a bug in our documentation: no specific > prefixes are required. > Concerning the IETF namespace URI's : we will use our own URI's for al= l > the schemas that we have modified. >=20 > Maarten Bosteels > software developer DNS Belgium >=20 Hi all, while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still has = a=20 slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing XML (i.e. t= he=20 "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required to be changed du= e to=20 the introduction of new commands. I have the feeling that quite a lot of = new=20 registrars that download open source EPP implementations will have to lea= rn the=20 hard way that EPP is not always EPP. That way, it could be questionable w= hether=20 EURid's protocol even deserves the name "EPP" at all. On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create additio= nal=20 commands via the second level "" element, one should rethi= nk the=20 fixed command set of the "commandType" schema type when an update of EPP = is=20 considered. Having an additional command as an extension outside of the=20 "" element, it is not clear that the typical command/response be= haviour=20 shall apply to this command as well. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 08:18:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESCu1-0005dB-9n for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:18:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12133 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESD5k-0001W8-9m for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:30:48 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JCAhOj005014 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:43 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JCAgj1007540 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:42 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from smtp.dns.be (smtp.dns.be [212.190.80.118]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JCAfLJ002160 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (smtp-new.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7963C125334 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.dns.be ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20053-06 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.192.9] (mortimer.dns.be [192.168.192.9]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3904B125322 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <435637BF.9090809@dns.be> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:39 +0200 From: maarten User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2-1.4.1.centos4 (X11/20050323) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dns.be Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Klaus Malorny wrote: > Hi all, > > while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still > has a slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing > XML (i.e. the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required > to be changed due to the introduction of new commands. I have the > feeling that quite a lot of new registrars that download open source > EPP implementations will have to learn the hard way that EPP is not > always EPP. That way, it could be questionable whether EURid's > protocol even deserves the name "EPP" at all. > I agree that we should have used Protocol Extension for adding our extra commands, but it's probably a bit late for that. > On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create > additional commands via the second level "" element, > one should rethink the fixed command set of the "commandType" schema > type when an update of EPP is considered. Having an additional command > as an extension outside of the "" element, it is not clear > that the typical command/response behaviour shall apply to this > command as well. How about adding an empty element to the choice in commandType for all the extra commands that one wants to define: epp11 2010-10-10T10:10:10.0Z ... abc-456 This way it would be clear that the typical command/response behaviour applies. Maarten Bosteels DNS BE Developer From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 09:26:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESDxY-0002L1-U9 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:26:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16280 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESE9D-0003Q6-9Z for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:38:33 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDHVAW001952 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:17:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDHUms029999 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:17:30 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx3.univie.ac.at (mx2.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.34]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDHUIV007085 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:17:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.249.133]) by mx3.univie.ac.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9JDGf4t057591; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:16:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from gw@localhost) by snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9JDGeG145070; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:16:40 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:16:40 +0200 From: Gerhard Winkler To: shollenbeck@verisign.com, ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: mx9.univie.ac.at 4248; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 Hi Scott et al., in .AT we are currently discussing how different business processes can be mapped on standard EPP. We didn't encounter many problems and most of our specialities can be solved with extensions. One of the open things is the domain:transfer behavior. We have a special process for this (see below) which cannot be mapped to the standard. For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. Therefore we have designed a special process: - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer - the registry sends a token to the registrant - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in combination with the domain transfer information Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer (token request and transaction itself). The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't find a nice solution for the two step transfer. The problem is that transfer op-codes are defined in epp core (epp1.0) instead of domain-1.0. domain-1.0 doesn't know op-codes. epp-1.0 says: and: domain-1.0 says: Due to this fact its impossible to extend the transfer behavior to our needs. Trying to modify domain-1.0 only doesn't help very much and even epp-1.0 cannot be left untouched. From our point of view there are two possible solutions for that: The first one is to define a additional op-code "transfer op=init" within epp-1.0. This is not very nice because it doesn't solve the problem of inflexibility of the transfer definition in epp-1.0. And - yes - it doesn't have very much to do with the transfer concept mentioned in the RFC. The second solution would be the complete move of the transfer definition to the domain-1.0 document. something like this: example.com ... This approach would give much more flexibility for different transfer scenarios, as they could be freely implemented within object namespaces. Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved still using the EPP RFCs? I wonder if there are other registries which encountered problems due to the very hard definition of the transfer. regards, Gerhard -- Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at Vienna University Computer Center | Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 09:30:35 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESE1b-0005a9-CT for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:30:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16541 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESEDL-0003YE-Ag for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:42:44 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDMsDP003440 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:22:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDMsWH011312 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:22:54 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDMqL0027149 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:22:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.31.32.76] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDMcL9087941; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:22:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:22:56 -0400 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 At 18:01 +0200 10/18/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still >has a slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing >XML (i.e. the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was >required to be changed due to ... What bothers me is that there is a second instance of a registry, in this other case, avoiding EPP and instead building their own protocol. I am not making a judgement call on the wisdom of prefering a home grown effort over a standard, but rather am concerned that the standard wasn't "good" enough for them. See: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-51/presentations/pdf/ripe51-enum-epp.pdf The talk is somewhat mistitled in the agenda, why DENIC didn't use EPP for ENUM. The reason is simply that DENIC doesn't use EPP for anything. (;)) From slide 7 onwards though is the interesting stuff - why DENIC doesn't use EPP for anything. This is a cry for "use the IETF for what it is for." I would hope to see a detailed critique outlining why EPP is failing to meet the needs of the community come in, and not a feeling that EPP should be shunned. The definition of EPP by the IETF is not to be taken as a royal edict. It should be the collective wit and wisdom of us wise guys. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 09:42:16 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESECs-0001qr-CM for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:42:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18198 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESEOa-00042d-WD for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:54:22 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDYjj9020513 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:34:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDYjtb007341 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:34:45 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDYidD001074 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:34:44 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESE5b-0001h2-Ko for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:34:43 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id A879E13744; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:34:34 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote: [. . .] > For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. > Therefore we have designed a special process: > - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer > - the registry sends a token to the registrant > - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar > - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in > combination with the domain transfer information > > Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer > (token request and transaction itself). > > The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't > find a nice solution for the two step transfer. I think you ought to be able to do this. As far as I know, all ICANN-regulated registries do a two-step transfer. When a transfer request comes in, we return 1001 ("Command completed successfully; action pending"). The transfer may be explicitly acknowledged with an "op" attribute set to "approve" or "reject". It seems to me that what you need is an extension for the "approve" case, which can contain the token from the registrant (that would prove that the losing registrar has been contacted by the registrant, who has approved the transfer). Maybe I'm overlooking something in the rest of your explanation? A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 09:58:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESESy-0000TI-6k for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:58:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18966 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESEeg-0004TL-24 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:11:00 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDoZmU001295 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:50:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDoZfW014801 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:50:35 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDoXBn003598 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:50:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JE5EqF012030; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:05:14 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:50:30 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: [ietf-provreg] RE: EPP domain:transfer Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:50:40 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3BEFF@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: EPP domain:transfer Thread-Index: AcXUr3h2p1xtJocYQXKlSlIt9TFPQgAAWhsg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Gerhard Winkler" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 13:50:30.0276 (UTC) FILETIME=[11807440:01C5D4B4] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JDoYBn029863 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 827a2a57ca7ab0837847220f447e8d56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You can easily define an authInfo extension and a domain extension to trigger the initial transfer request and token delivery to the registrant. That is, extend the command to add features (like maybe a new "transferRequested" status value) to support a token delivery request. Then the is used as currently defined to return the token in the . Moving the transfer stuff out of the core is NOT a good idea. It would mean having to replicate all of the transfer stuff in the contact mapping as well. Contact me off-list if this isn't clear enough. I can probably kludge up some examples in a few minutes if that would help. -Scott- > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerhard Winkler [mailto:gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at] > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:17 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott; ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: EPP domain:transfer > > > Hi Scott et al., > > in .AT we are currently discussing how different business > processes can > be mapped on standard EPP. We didn't encounter many problems and > most of our specialities can be solved with extensions. > > One of the open things is the domain:transfer behavior. We > have a special > process for this (see below) which cannot be mapped to the standard. > > > For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. > Therefore we have designed a special process: > - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer > - the registry sends a token to the registrant > - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar > - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in > combination with the domain transfer information > > Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer > (token request and transaction itself). > > The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't > find a nice solution for the two step transfer. > The problem is that transfer op-codes are defined in epp core > (epp1.0) instead of domain-1.0. > domain-1.0 doesn't know op-codes. > > > epp-1.0 says: > > > > > > use="required"/> > > > and: > > > > > > > > > > > > > domain-1.0 says: > > > > > > minOccurs="0"/> > minOccurs="0"/> > > > > > > Due to this fact its impossible to extend the transfer behavior to our > needs. Trying to modify domain-1.0 only doesn't help very > much and even > epp-1.0 cannot be left untouched. > > > From our point of view there are two possible solutions for that: > > The first one is to define a additional op-code "transfer op=init" > within epp-1.0. > This is not very nice because it doesn't solve the problem of > inflexibility > of the transfer definition in epp-1.0. > And - yes - it doesn't have very much to do with the transfer concept > mentioned in the RFC. > > > The second solution would be the complete move of the > transfer definition > to the domain-1.0 document. > > something like this: > > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" > xsi:schemaLocation="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0 > epp-1.0.xsd"> > > > xmlns:domain="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0" > xsi:schemaLocation="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0 > domain-1.0.xsd"> > example.com > ... > > > This approach would give much more flexibility for different > transfer scenarios, as they could be freely implemented within object > namespaces. > > > Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved > still using the EPP RFCs? > > I wonder if there are other registries which encountered > problems due to the > very hard definition of the transfer. > > > > regards, > Gerhard > > > > -- > Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: > gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at > Vienna University Computer Center | > Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 > A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 > > From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 10:00:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESEU9-0000sZ-BF for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:00:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19001 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESEfs-0004V2-NI for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:12:14 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDtHO0016561 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:55:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDtHmi014430 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:55:17 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDtF7S000559 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:55:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dev3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.40] helo=ca.afilias.info) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESEPT-0002Ic-2A; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:55:15 -0400 Message-ID: <43565112.9080500@ca.afilias.info> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:58:42 -0400 From: janusz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040413 Debian/1.6-5 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Klaus Malorny CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: janusz@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Klaus Malorny wrote: > > On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create > additional commands via the second level "" element, > one should rethink the fixed command set of the "commandType" schema > type when an update of EPP is considered. Having an additional command > as an extension outside of the "" element, it is not clear > that the typical command/response behaviour shall apply to this > command as well. > > Klaus, if "commandType" schema type was extended as you are proposing then EPP protocol would have more than one way of creating new EPP commands. What should be then the policy for protocol implementers for choosing one way over the other? Do you have any particular criteria in mind? Janusz From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 11:10:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESFaX-0003t8-HD for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:10:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22321 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESFmH-0006Kd-5a for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:22:54 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JF2p55004829 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:02:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JF2pRr007702 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:02:51 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx1.univie.ac.at (mx1.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.28]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JF2nMB021793 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:02:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.249.133]) by mx1.univie.ac.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9JEvD8o058777; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:57:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from gw@localhost) by snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9JEvDF210406; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:57:13 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:57:13 +0200 From: Gerhard Winkler To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info>; from Andrew Sullivan on Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:34:34AM -0400 X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: mx9.univie.ac.at 4248; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:34:34AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote: > > [. . .] > > For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. > > Therefore we have designed a special process: > > - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer > > - the registry sends a token to the registrant > > - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar > > - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in > > combination with the domain transfer information > > > > Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer > > (token request and transaction itself). > > > > The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't > > find a nice solution for the two step transfer. > > I think you ought to be able to do this. As far as I know, all > ICANN-regulated registries do a two-step transfer. When a transfer > request comes in, we return 1001 ("Command completed successfully; > action pending"). The transfer may be explicitly acknowledged with > an "op" attribute set to "approve" or "reject". It seems to me that > what you need is an extension for the "approve" case, which can > contain the token from the registrant (that would prove that the > losing registrar has been contacted by the registrant, who has > approved the transfer). Maybe I'm overlooking something in the rest > of your explanation? For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process (except of receiving notifications of course). We have also considered to "misuse" the "approve", but from my understanding it should be used by the losing registrar only. I think a generic EPP client would run into some confusion, using the "approve" in two different ways. -Gerhard -- Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at Vienna University Computer Center | Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 12:08:31 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESGUR-0001aY-AL for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:08:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25360 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESGgC-0007x1-80 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:20:40 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JFxwjY011696 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:59:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JFxwGw018871 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:59:58 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JFxubJ003087 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:59:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESGM6-0006Vh-VZ for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:59:54 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id E42BC13744; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:59:45 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019155945.GD24849@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 04:57:13PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote: > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > (except of receiving notifications of course). Ah, I did miss something, then, yes. Well, you could do it a different way. Scott's suggestion of using an command will work with the proposed updates to the protocol; so that's one answer (it'd violate the current RFC, but everyone seems to agree that the restrictions on objects in pending* status are too tight, so Scott submitted some proposed changes). A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 12:15:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESGb1-00032s-Sp for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:15:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25937 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESGmm-0008E7-0v for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:27:29 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JG8kVb022479 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JG8k55000284 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:46 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JG8jw6012433 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9JG8Yj27093; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:34 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:31 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Lewis CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JG8jw6016296 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9JG8kVb022479 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 67c1ea29f88502ef6a32ccec927970f0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edward Lewis wrote: > At 18:01 +0200 10/18/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >=20 >> while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still=20 >> has a slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing=20 >> XML (i.e. the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required= =20 >> to be changed due to ... >=20 > What bothers me is that there is a second instance of a registry, in=20 > this other case, avoiding EPP and instead building their own protocol. = =20 > I am not making a judgement call on the wisdom of prefering a home grow= n=20 > effort over a standard, but rather am concerned that the standard wasn'= t=20 > "good" enough for them. >=20 > See:=20 > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-51/presentations/pdf/ripe51-enum= -epp.pdf=20 >=20 >=20 > The talk is somewhat mistitled in the agenda, why DENIC didn't use EPP=20 > for ENUM. The reason is simply that DENIC doesn't use EPP for=20 > anything. (;)) From slide 7 onwards though is the interesting stuff -= =20 > why DENIC doesn't use EPP for anything. >=20 > This is a cry for "use the IETF for what it is for." I would hope to=20 > see a detailed critique outlining why EPP is failing to meet the needs=20 > of the community come in, and not a feeling that EPP should be shunned.= =20 > The definition of EPP by the IETF is not to be taken as a royal edict. = =20 > It should be the collective wit and wisdom of us wise guys. Hi Edward, being a member of the technical advisory committee of DENIC, I strongly=20 supported the decision of DENIC to implement its own protocol and not EPP= , and I=20 can explain why. At the time the decision was made, EPP was still in the = draft=20 state, and the underlying model of EPP was just incompatible with the DEN= IC=20 model, most notably the inability to deal with a "hostless" structure. In= =20 following drafts EPP became more flexible regarding this (via the hostAtt= r=20 element). However, still today there are quite a lot differences in the m= odels,=20 starting at additional contact fields, multiple registrant contacts per d= omain,=20 different transfer mechanisms and requirements and special commands, like= the=20 transit or changeholder commands. A possible EPP solution would be either= to=20 adopt the generic EPP model or to build a large set of extensions for EPP= to=20 allow the representation of DENIC's model as EPP. The first case would no= t only=20 have had a large impact to DENIC itself, but to all DENIC registrars as w= ell.=20 Large amounts of money would have been burnt for the developments at DENI= C and=20 the registrars, and the transition from the DENIC model to the EPP model = would=20 not have been an easy one. The other solution would have had the clear=20 disadvantage that every single XML element added as an extension of EPP=20 diminishes the benefit of EPP, namely to have a generic interface that ca= n be=20 used with a generic toolkit and a generic registrar software. Any solutio= n=20 in-between merely inherits the disadvantages and not the advantages of bo= th=20 solutions. Sorry to say that, but in the beginning of the provreg working group Scot= t and=20 others of the gTLD faction were just too confined to the Verisign model a= nd=20 fully ignored the ccTLDs, their needs and their models. IMHO this discour= aged=20 many ccTLDs from participating. EPP is indeed "extensible", but in some a= spects=20 just not at all. While I think it is reasonable that existing registries go their own way = in=20 dealing with registry protocols for their own benefit and the benefit of = their=20 registrars and customers, I believe that new registries should adopt EPP = with as=20 few extensions as possible and with a registry model as compatible as pos= sible,=20 even though I do not consider myself as a big friend of EPP. Therefore I = am=20 disappointed that EURid did not manage to provide a cleaner EPP implement= ation=20 within two years or so, but using the very same concepts of the .be regis= try. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 12:22:29 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESGhw-0002BY-TE for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:22:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26520 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESGtd-0008Vo-OF for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:34:38 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGDITc001097 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JGDIfM020504 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:18 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGDHgj001190 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9JGDGj27817; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:16 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4356709A.8090702@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:14 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: janusz CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43565112.9080500@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <43565112.9080500@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JGDIgj005774 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9JGDITc001097 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable janusz wrote: > Klaus Malorny wrote: >=20 >> >> On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create=20 >> additional commands via the second level "" element,=20 >> one should rethink the fixed command set of the "commandType" schema=20 >> type when an update of EPP is considered. Having an additional command= =20 >> as an extension outside of the "" element, it is not clear=20 >> that the typical command/response behaviour shall apply to this=20 >> command as well. >> >> > Klaus, > if "commandType" schema type was extended as you are proposing then EPP= =20 > protocol would have more than one way of creating new EPP commands. Wha= t=20 > should be then the policy for protocol implementers for choosing one wa= y=20 > over the other? Do you have any particular criteria in mind? >=20 > Janusz >=20 Hi Janusz, well, as I said, that they behave like other commands, i.e. that the answ= er is a=20 element with the known structure. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 12:40:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESGzC-0002GO-Mw for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:40:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27475 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESHAx-0000Z1-Ki for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:52:28 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGVB4I006158 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:31:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JGVBLg010733 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:31:11 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGV91C020888 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:31:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.31.32.76] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGUsF0088742; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:30:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:30:40 -0400 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Cc: Edward Lewis , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 At 18:08 +0200 10/19/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: I have no qualms with anyone implementing their own system, even if there is a so-called standard approach out there. (Contempt-of-standards is not a crime.) However, doing this is what will kill off the IETF. The IETF has been, is, and can be a valuable resource to the developers of the Internet so long as we fight decay of it's function. >Sorry to say that, but in the beginning of the provreg working group Scott and >others of the gTLD faction were just too confined to the Verisign model and >fully ignored the ccTLDs, their needs and their models. IMHO this discouraged >many ccTLDs from participating. EPP is indeed "extensible", but in >some aspects >just not at all. No reason to be sorry for that feeling. But the question is - in what way did the discouragement of the ccTLDs become a self-fulfilling prophecy? (One disclaimer - I am going to label camps as ccTLD and gTLD. Take this as a broad brush. In particular, my current employer is both a ccTLD and a gTLD. The camps aren't so neatly distinct.) As one of the chairs of the group, I did my best to get wide review. (I was hampered by a limited budget for this as my then employer is not any kind of a stakeholder in the process.) Approaching some ccTLDs when I could get out, I was told that input was too expensive. The only organizations that expended energy were those with a gTLD mission. It wasn't until I got one ccTLD person to speak up about the host-less issue that the specification softened on this. It wasn't a matter of getting a voice of a ccTLD to do this, it was a matter of trying to figure out what middle ground was available, i.e., how to bend the work to suit all comers. There were rumors floating that the host-less approach was in conflict with EPP, but until someone clearly said why and was able to sketch a solution, rumors were just that. (Engineers don't deal in rumor.) When the WG began in 2001, nearly all of the voices were gTLD fed. ccTLDs didn't pay much attention as the first blocks of concrete set. Over time EPP got wider review which translates into rethinking early decisions. Any feelings of "let's not do this again" by the incumbents towards the newcomers is just human nature. It will continue to be this way until the Internet serves the entire planet. Such inertia needs to be fought, with even more energy by the newer newcomers or else the entire effort will collapse into fragmented bickering. My words aren't about "anyone vs. the Verisign model," although I can understand that sentiment. This is about trying to make the IETF work. What can be done? If you were to submit a draft that gives engineering details of what is wrong with EPP for your case, perhaps there is a way to define EPP2 that is even more general. Then again, maybe not - TV has PAL and NTSC formats. The people that "suffer" are those running the clients. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 13:25:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESHgU-0003D4-Tl for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:25:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29888 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESHsE-0001sT-5M for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:37:13 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHH9fF002342 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:17:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JHH81B004495 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:17:08 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHH71p007133 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:17:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHTcYb009523; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:29:38 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:17:05 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3BFEA@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Thread-Index: AcXUyq1eZOAx/IHrRty4yqJOQlZDEQAAm6Bg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 17:17:05.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED98FE40:01C5D4D0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JHH81p011501 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM > To: Edward Lewis > Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) [snip] > Sorry to say that, but in the beginning of the provreg > working group Scott and > others of the gTLD faction were just too confined to the > Verisign model and > fully ignored the ccTLDs, their needs and their models. IMHO > this discouraged > many ccTLDs from participating. EPP is indeed "extensible", > but in some aspects > just not at all. I still really resent statements like this because no one "fully ignored" anybody's needs. I know that I and others took great pains to try to boil down the defined structures to essential minimums as issues were brought to the group's attention, pushing as much TLD-specific stuff as possible off for local definition. That means that "local policy" things needed by individual registries are up to them to specify. I firmly believe that any attempt to specify an "out of the box" domain registration protocol that included all of the features needed by every TLD registry would have failed miserably. -Scott- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 13:52:58 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESI7W-0007qc-FZ for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:52:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01816 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESIJA-0002oT-4Q for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:05:09 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHjK4W001059 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JHjKxh002504 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:20 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nohope.patoche.org ([62.160.23.78]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHjJWh018327 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nohope.patoche.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j9JHjIKA021472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:19 +0200 Received: (from patrick@localhost) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9JHjIFX021470; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:18 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:18 +0200 From: Patrick Mevzek To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051019174518.GA20140@nohope.patoche.org> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> X-PGP-KeyID: A241FB6B X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9DA9 5054 7A5D 03FC A9AD 9AFF 1371 9F06 A241 FB6B X-Request-PGP: http://www.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xA241FB6B Organization: Dot And Co User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Klaus Malorny 2005-10-18 18:31 > while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still has a > slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing XML (i.e. the > "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required to be changed due > to the introduction of new commands. I have the feeling that quite a lot of > new registrars that download open source EPP implementations will have to > learn the hard way that EPP is not always EPP. That way, it could be > questionable whether EURid's protocol even deserves the name "EPP" at all. These ``small'' differences can easily be hidden in the client, provided that it is flexible enough. Thus, for me, they do not show that there are problems in EPP. Just that people have different needs, and that it is impossible to find a solution that works for anyone. It creates a greater burden on registrar/client software, but, in my view, nothing impossible to achieve. At least, this is the kind of view I try to have when working on my own implementation (which, BTW will soon fully support EURid and, at the same time, any other EPP registry). Maybe now that more people are aware of EPP, even if they finally do not decide to use it for whatever reasons, they can participate even more towards the next iteration, and this is why I totally agree with the idea of putting in written what problems/differences they see, to make sure it will taken into account. -- Patrick Mevzek Dot and Co From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 18:41:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESMcw-0002ur-Pf for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:41:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10099 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESMok-0002MB-8V for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:53:55 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JMZ0jo025015 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:35:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JMZ0Dc011101 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:35:00 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JMYx8I004844 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:34:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9JMYuj29191; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:34:57 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4356CA01.4050604@knipp.de> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:34:41 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Lewis CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9JMZ0jo025015 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 67c1ea29f88502ef6a32ccec927970f0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edward Lewis wrote: >=20 > No reason to be sorry for that feeling. But the question is - in what=20 > way did the discouragement of the ccTLDs become a self-fulfilling proph= ecy? >=20 > (One disclaimer - I am going to label camps as ccTLD and gTLD. Take=20 > this as a broad brush. In particular, my current employer is both a=20 > ccTLD and a gTLD. The camps aren't so neatly distinct.) >=20 > As one of the chairs of the group, I did my best to get wide review. (I= =20 > was hampered by a limited budget for this as my then employer is not an= y=20 > kind of a stakeholder in the process.) Approaching some ccTLDs when I=20 > could get out, I was told that input was too expensive. The only=20 > organizations that expended energy were those with a gTLD mission. >=20 > It wasn't until I got one ccTLD person to speak up about the host-less=20 > issue that the specification softened on this. It wasn't a matter of=20 > getting a voice of a ccTLD to do this, it was a matter of trying to=20 > figure out what middle ground was available, i.e., how to bend the work= =20 > to suit all comers. There were rumors floating that the host-less=20 > approach was in conflict with EPP, but until someone clearly said why=20 > and was able to sketch a solution, rumors were just that. (Engineers=20 > don't deal in rumor.) >=20 > When the WG began in 2001, nearly all of the voices were gTLD fed.=20 > ccTLDs didn't pay much attention as the first blocks of concrete set.=20 > Over time EPP got wider review which translates into rethinking early=20 > decisions. Any feelings of "let's not do this again" by the incumbents= =20 > towards the newcomers is just human nature. It will continue to be thi= s=20 > way until the Internet serves the entire planet. Such inertia needs to=20 > be fought, with even more energy by the newer newcomers or else the=20 > entire effort will collapse into fragmented bickering. >=20 > My words aren't about "anyone vs. the Verisign model," although I can=20 > understand that sentiment. This is about trying to make the IETF work. >=20 > What can be done? If you were to submit a draft that gives engineering= =20 > details of what is wrong with EPP for your case, perhaps there is a way= =20 > to define EPP2 that is even more general. Then again, maybe not - TV=20 > has PAL and NTSC formats. The people that "suffer" are those running=20 > the clients. >=20 Hi Edward, I cannot say who's fault it is. I think I have brought up some valid reas= ons=20 for an existing registry with a proprietary structure not being intereste= d in=20 EPP. Beyond that, I can only speculate, like that they didn't want to=20 participate because of the major role of Verisign. To get the real causes= , you=20 have to ask the registries themselves. In addition, I don't know what eff= orts=20 the heads of the WG made to integrate the ccTLDs into the development pro= cess. Anyhow, in my personal retrospective, my question is whether the goal of = EPP is=20 an illusion. To be honest, I have not a big insight in the thinking of th= e=20 ccTLDs, but I think they have their reasons for not wanting to become a=20 "generic" registry, distiguishable from other registries only by the TLD = label.=20 However, the goal of a protocol is to unify, to harmonize, to narrow thin= gs to=20 the essence. The "Extensible" in EPP is from that point of view already a= =20 contradiction. If it is not limited to extensions also defined by the IET= F, it=20 gives freedom to the registries on the one hand, but destroys the benefit= s of=20 the protocol on the other hand. Please don't misunderstand me, I do not w= ant to=20 devaluate Scott's and all others' work (well, execpt for the wrong statem= ent=20 about idempotency...), and EPP as it is has definitely its positive sides= , but=20 my conclusion is that the final goal cannot be reached. Therefore I am no= t a=20 big proponent of the EPP idea. As you asked, what can be done, there are indeed areas which I would like= to=20 have more extensibility or extensiblity at all: - the command types, as mentioned - the error codes - the contact roles in domains - the status values of contacts, hosts and domains But taking into account what I have said above, the question is whether a= n EPP2=20 (instead of an EPP1.x that just fixes problems that have been discussed=20 recently) really makes sense. And of course, one can solve the=20 non-extensibility of these elements by the current extension mechanism. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 19 20:54:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESOhl-0001vM-V4 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:54:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29979 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESOta-0001z1-Oh for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:07:04 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K0mjWi025777 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:48:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9K0mjOZ026803 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:48:45 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K0mhP5007033 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:48:44 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K0mTnX091707; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:48:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4356CA01.4050604@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <4356CA01.4050604@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:48:51 -0400 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Cc: Edward Lewis , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 At 0:34 +0200 10/20/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Anyhow, in my personal retrospective, my question is whether the >goal of EPP is >an illusion. That is a good point. But for the sake of technical curiosity, knowing the limits of a protocol's usefulness is as important as knowing how to extend a protocol. >The "Extensible" in EPP is from that point of view already a contradiction. >If it is not limited to extensions also defined by the IETF, it gives freedom >to the registries on the one hand, but destroys the benefits of the protocol >on the other hand. Anyone is free to implement extensions. The crucial element though is to get the extension's schema recognized so that clients can make use of the extension. (Of course - only the clients that need it.) I hope that it is not the IETF that defines extensions, but rather that the IETF reviews the extensions documented and voluntarily submitted for review. Scott's more recent extensions were not mandated into being by the IETF. >(well, execpt for the wrong statement about idempotency...) I agree(d) with you on that one, even if I didn't post anything about that. When the WG reviewed the idempotency, no one saw the client vs. client interactions. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) From CathyHiggins@thelifepreserver.net Thu Oct 20 07:13:19 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESYMJ-0007nE-Ta for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:13:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02710 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESYYE-00045j-0m for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:25:39 -0400 Received: from [218.191.124.140] (helo=1563177045) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ESYME-0000kS-NE for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:13:15 -0400 Received: from BOD@localhost by Jbf.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:06:16 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Kate Clifton" Reply-To: "Kate Clifton" To: provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95 Microsoft Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:11:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: CathyHiggins@thelifepreserver.net Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--nsIzn0uhBovk4WXKdd" X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f8184d7d4d1b986353eb58ea3e887935 qlnI ----nsIzn0uhBovk4WXKdd Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable S
Opt-in Email Special Offer &n= bsp;   unsubscribe me
<= tbody>
<= /td>
=
SEARCH

<= td vAlign=3Dbottom>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

= =

 = ON SALE NOW!

 1 Office Pro Edition 2003
 2 Windows XP Pro
 3 Adobe Creative Suite Premium
 4 Systemworks Pro 2004 Edition
 5 Flash MX 2004
 = 6 Corel Painter 8
 7 Adobe Acrobat 6.0
 8 Windows 2003 Server
 9 Alias Maya 6.0 Wavefro= nt
 10 Adobe Prem= iere
  See more by = this manufacturer
   Microsoft<= /td>
   Apple Software
  Customers also bought=
   these other items...



=

Micr= osoft Office Professional Edition *2003*
Microsoft
Choose:
<= /td> 
List Price:<= /td>$899.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$830.01 (92%)


<= br> Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Cod= e: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download

System requirements&= nbsp; |  Accessories  = |  Other Versions

= Features:

  • Analyze and manage business information using= Access databases
  • Exchange d= ata with other systems using enhanced XML technology
  • Control information sharing rules with enhanced I= RM technology
  • Easy-to-use wi= zards to create e-mail newsletters and printed marketing materials =
  • More than 20 preformatted business = reports
Sales Rank: #1<= br> Shipping: International/US or via instant download=
Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 1,768 reviews. Write a review.
Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longhorn Edition
Microsoft
<= /table>

----nsIzn0uhBovk4WXKdd-- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 08:55:23 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESZx5-00083V-5U for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:55:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08886 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESa8t-0007NE-44 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:07:40 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KCkXXf001341 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KCkXMq013193 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:33 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KCkW8n015048 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1120E26C08A for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F26526C00E for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id j9KCkLYa895306 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F3F7C16A9A4; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:20 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote a message of 130 lines which said: > Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved still > using the EPP RFCs? What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 10:14:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESbC0-0007Ws-7O for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:14:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15242 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESbNt-0001zT-9r for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:27:13 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KE5nlr024757 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:05:49 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KE5nvJ027029 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:05:49 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KE5mQ8001328 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:05:49 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.139]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KEKj8w030602; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:20:45 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:05:47 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:05:53 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C13A@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Thread-Index: AcXVd5KF3Nwuce65QZGdOwcT/aLFmgAANMFw From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2005 14:05:47.0458 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E991220:01C5D57F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9KE5nQ8010456 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:46 AM > To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, > Gerhard Winkler wrote > a message of 130 lines which said: > > > Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved still > > using the EPP RFCs? > > What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are > supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your > business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. As I said yesterday, one potential solution is quite easy to specify. > EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety > of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard > (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. Given that there is no standard set of registration rules, the first part of the statement above is disingenuous at best. The complete problem is unsolvable by definition because there is no standard set of registration rules; only parts of the problem can be solved. What's bad is asserting that solutions to smaller parts of the problem are something more than they were designed to be. -Scott- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 11:08:38 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESc22-0004n7-Kv for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:08:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21674 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EScDw-0004wA-KP for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:21:00 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KEwxuh020467 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:58:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KEww23016469 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:58:58 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KEwvVg020310 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:58:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESbse-00009q-WA for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:58:56 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 7B14213744; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:58:47 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051020145846.GB14209@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 02:46:20PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are > supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your > business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. I don't see how the last sentence follows from the preceding one. Standards are supposed to make _everyone's_ life (i.e. considered as a complete set) simpler. That might mean that some people's lives actually get slightly harder. That's part of the trade-off in standards development, it seems to me. > EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety > of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard > (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. A claim of impossibility is pretty strong. It might be that people don't think it's worth it; but I find it awful hard to believe that it's impossible. I know that Afilias has at least managed to accommodate some variety of registration rules inside the standard. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 12:51:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESddR-0003xo-4D for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:51:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29466 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESdpP-0000WP-AS for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:03:43 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KGh8DF002157 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:43:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KGh8Cb012970 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:43:08 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KGh7Wx017199 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:43:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESdVS-0003yc-H7 for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:43:06 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 14BBB13744; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:42:57 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 06:08:31PM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > the clear disadvantage that every single XML element added as an extension > of EPP diminishes the benefit of EPP, namely to have a generic interface > that can be used with a generic toolkit and a generic registrar software. I hear this all the time, and it troubles me. The point of the extension mechanism is that it should be fairly trivial for an extension to be prepared and made available. Since servers can announce their capabilities when negotiating connection, what is the overwhelming barrier? It it just a namespace problem, or are people discovering that extensible servers or clients are really that tough to build? If it's the _former_ problem, all we need is a namespace registry, right? If it's the latter, what would make the problem less difficult to solve? A number of changes were recently proposed by Scott. Where were the people reporting all these problems when we were trying to gather reports of experience? (Once again, I'm probably overlooking something self-evident to everyone else, but maybe you folks could hit me with the clue stick.) A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 14:03:16 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESel2-00004s-OT for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:03:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03998 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESex0-0002y7-El for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:15:40 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KHsQJp005168 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KHsQwP022983 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:26 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from boromix.nask.net.pl (boromix.nask.net.pl [195.187.245.33]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KHsPjx008508 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from boromir.nask.net.pl (boromir [195.187.245.66]) by boromix.nask.net.pl with ESMTP id j9KHsGJN028809 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:16 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.109] ([10.20.32.4]) by boromir.nask.net.pl with ESMTP id j9KHsHJb020820 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:48 +0200 From: Patrycja Wegrzynowicz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> In-Reply-To: <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VirusProtection: checked - Found to be clean Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerhard Winkler wrote: > For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): > the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and > for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the > gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > (except of receiving notifications of course). Hi Gerhard, Scott's proposal sounds very fine for your case; although I'd like to put my 2 cents to your problem. ;) 1. Considering Scott's approach one MINOR note to mention: command must be sent by the registrar which is not the sponsoring client. It's only the minor note as according to EPP standard the restriction of this action to the sponsoring client is only recommended. However, worth to keep this in mind. 2. Your transfer process seems a lot like ours (.PL registry). .PL also requires the registrant to confirm/authorize the transfer request. Although the implementation is a bit different from yours proposal: - the gaining registrar sends request - the registry sends email with 'confirmation link' to the registrant - the registrant clicks 'confirmation link' and then the transfer is done As you see we decided to skip forwarding token forth-and-back in the registry/registrar/registrant circle. From the semantic point of view IMO it's more clear since such round-trip seems redundant. I see some possible explanations of the 'token' approach... although it's more question to you... what are your reasons behind having token approach instead of, for example, direct confirmation? Best, Patrycja From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 15:15:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESfsk-0004IR-On for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:15:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07726 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESg4T-00056n-F5 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:27:30 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KIvcKV026820 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:57:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KIvcU2015425 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:57:38 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from sokol.elan.net (sokol.elan.net [216.151.192.200]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KIvb85020053 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:57:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from sokol.elan.net (sokol [127.0.0.1]) by sokol.elan.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9KIvLkZ004000; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:57:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (william@localhost) by sokol.elan.net (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) with ESMTP id j9KIvF7X003992; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:57:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sokol.elan.net: william owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:57:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "william(at)elan.net" To: Andrew Sullivan cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer In-Reply-To: <20051020145846.GB14209@libertyrms.info> Message-ID: References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> <20051020145846.GB14209@libertyrms.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f I haven't really participated here and mostly watched out what so far... But it seems to me if some can not find the current standard acceptable because of some of the built-in rules, perhaps the correct step is to reexamime and decide what are the most basic process for registration common to all and move the rest othe current EPP that is TLD centric into extensions (with capability to allow EPP server to advertise the extensions and sets of rules it supports and clienttelling what set of rules/extensions it would be using). Just something to think about if you ever want to work on next version of this protocol (which could be made quite compatible or very similar for the current set of rules even if some of those would be extensions). On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 02:46:20PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >> What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are >> supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your >> business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. > > I don't see how the last sentence follows from the preceding one. > Standards are supposed to make _everyone's_ life (i.e. considered as > a complete set) simpler. That might mean that some people's lives > actually get slightly harder. That's part of the trade-off in > standards development, it seems to me. > >> EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety >> of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard >> (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. > > A claim of impossibility is pretty strong. It might be that people > don't think it's worth it; but I find it awful hard to believe that > it's impossible. I know that Afilias has at least managed to > accommodate some variety of registration rules inside the standard. > > A From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 15:57:56 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESgXz-0003wp-Ul for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:57:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11456 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESgjy-000758-7A for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:10:19 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KJoCW1023325 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:50:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KJoCEp025385 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:50:12 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KJo9D1023881 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:50:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from michael-vpn.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.7.27] helo=DUN911) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESgQS-0001Xj-Nt for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:50:08 -0400 From: "Michael Young" To: Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:50:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcXVdLBCboaN3gerSk6YHUPV7WLpxAAN+uZg Message-Id: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: myoung@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit >>>your business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. I guess I have a different view than this. I would describe EPP as a decent attempt to provide some consistent behavior for registry clients in the industry. If it doesn't suit your purposes then you can certainly volunteer to improve it. The help would be appreciated. Michael Young From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Thu Oct 20 16:33:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESh5z-000324-KK for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:33:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA27933 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EShHi-0004s3-W1 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:45:24 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KKJqDS000565 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:19:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KKJqY2028356 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:19:52 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nic-naa.net ([65.99.1.129]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KKJprr026272 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:19:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nic-naa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic-naa.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9JJhCsb057542; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:43:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Message-Id: <200510191943.j9JJhCsb057542@nic-naa.net> To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se, brunner@nic-naa.net Subject: [ietf-provreg] Purpose of the drafts (was: Re: EPP domain:transfer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <57540.1129750992.1@nic-naa.net> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:43:12 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams at a VSAT somewhere (or in Portland Maine) Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d > What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are supposed > to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit > your business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. > EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety of > registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard (meaning reuse > of software) and sufficient. I hold myself as responsible for EPP as I hold Scott or anyone else. There is a schema, not a DTD, for a ML - the W3C's XML -- that defines the syntax of a data and control transport protocol. There were features we considered, we agreed upon what we agreed upon, where "we" ment VGRS+NSI, NS, AF, GNR, and RCOM, and not a lot else, and CNO registrars and {s|cc}TLD parties would have been helpful, but they self-excluded, and were excluded, for better or worse. Those who don't take the schema seriously self-inflict. NS did that, even the IESG did that, and a bunch of {s|cc}TLD registries flirt with that. The common source implementation model was tried. It failed for reasons that are unsurprising. Is uniformity at some level, from some universal broker service up to one single registry and registrar (server, client) single-image pair, really important? Probably not. Is proximality useful? Operationally, I think it is. You milage may vary, mine did, Eric From andres@fivefourclothing.com Thu Oct 20 19:54:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESk9W-0001E6-L4; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:48:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10438; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p6162-ipad25hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp ([219.114.7.162]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESk4c-0003R0-09; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:43:52 -0400 Received: by 10.11.98.7 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:27:35 -0600 Message-ID: <408h616j.5157813@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:27:35 -0600 From: "Lelia Burch" User-Agent: Apple Mail (2.728) X-PGP-Key: tLGVyctxhz2HdGVVBDyvfUq8PQRzJWER4qv9Oyclq2llzTPKEtN3x0F6PvJatTRP== X-Load: 55% MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ppm-archive@ietf.org, pppext@ietf.org, pr@ietf.org, presentations@ietf.org, proceedings@ietf.org, proto-team@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org, ps2.slim.incentive@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org, pwe3-admin@ietf.org, pwot@ietf.org, pwot-admin@ietf.org, pwtmzl2tpext-admin@ietf.org, qmda-intercept-asrg@ietf.org, qpcaorpsec@ietf.org Subject: Last chance for lower rates Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_07078127==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d890c9ddd0b0a61e8c597ad30c1c2176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_07078127==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
it pun or capacity in bedroom may asteria it's nut some fresh on sony it richter some runge not sacral , cargo try deflect try eigenstate may cottonseed Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_07078127==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="defrost.3.gif" Content-ID: <5.0.0.27.0.64014622062840.78496146@survive.hotmail.com.3> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="defrost.3.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh5gHOAMQAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zZv8zM/8AM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZzJmZ mZlmzGZmzGZmZmYzzDMzMzMAzAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAADmAc4AAAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrfIalKw2K9FCINkEaVuCSMpeVPc8SmjZIrBXDMButxI5BdLWSxoidncUVoWG h4iJQglgeV8Uf10UDQ2SdHVrJWEklZCAJ3ZwAHKfbnuPWYBYX41fEpGpgVmsWgmMkLSiiru8 vb67kCOUAG6fAFwkbpejsyXFKqGchCKvy3KMfMSTwtqlwSRdn3sj37/m5+jpRuVt29TIIspj cs7uKWmysstxew10z8ncgTnxR8S4QMbUKVzIsCGLb2DEAGTWiNylgeECJjyxJ2Odaa9QsJsY z93BEv4M/2Yb6LCly5fpBpU0hvEghUvjsIgiyRFCgoxYqOka0UVjPXHZ7t0RNhSm06dQl+Ci 120Ey4w3+d0xxtPEOFMJggIoSnCnvZkGm45xRHZs1qhw48r98a1BtoksTWGhM9VMua6astkR C2ajSqOI23LKdtBuG8NzI0uevIId2nfCajHjuqmqipN6ZL21epYnwIrJCh5L6kYt5dewJ1v+ yObnNNG2sqBhg4WmhGU6wel+d9B2UlnHaRP1JFoc7y58KsWeTj3uFmOCbl4nbapz90mD2GUX TkIPPtLNRG+yvdVgeDFd9lWfT18dK599WI1iZW3/l/L83ffFRtj895gJ94HCCv9XCeYHQUIC fvEPZPVVaOGFGGao4YYcdujhhyCGKOKIJJZo4okopqjiiiy26OKLMOKgWokGplBjEj9RWMhP 8sUYRXd2caGFe67pEAuNJxGUJBJHKgKWjzvWddNeJfXowoyf6biEdL7caNVKyTGpZRXy3IAl lDlQOZYrwoQJw5lqjJkEl714GQeYTcB5SJk26IlmDW4IBsklv60QloxyxnAoDG7W2eiXeSaq wqM+8CkEpTJg2iFLx8DBCAt+vinpC6GCUqQidpahaRClsuDGEZYC8aoOdJZ42m2FsreRIGfo lFWhH5Ujh0epxcIesD8Nq16vXPwjiT9bhFVbHvAwM07/UnagQokkK21jigndhZUKMoOZ8axV nxhoG7DCfbNuWIAMa1i41PhVnCSFFqYNSFoYU8uQggDy7WayxBcQHQG79Ucs1VJDh7lHSjKJ rgXfRDF7uWlWYkhuCcxGQTyWoJoko3QiBpf/mXFZG4VWI9CUxuZBTSkfewxfr7wFMxgxMlOp r1VsmFGJRByrNusYd45yRo71Kn1yVj//F3KtdQj8Kx/fyvzRRtMYyHFht8LnTUngejuJGURH hysgJD94sNM8+7QNl5YanMlHZM/MM3slg/ybyj2f6mFvdg3k9ndnjYWdKFAvNdqZN9YK8m0q K95HLF7SSTflzIpReTts25XQ/69jI5iJPBxDnZQ7qv2X3WiBXLNaN0crbfo3M+Yheeh51w40 JsdcEtTRqlFdZfCZ7ffRyWG+NWNWsyKuSm1bhXKy4B5C8lsx1KswY62qa2IM5Mftrg1TeldV UOZwbI4+e4k7fcaNpOcjcnRBP5gHNkmn3zr+KagEILLCK20ITxeBS99+zFe8afhuJm6zx6uI 9wnjGfAYnDHgJH4DO4PQ4XkSceBt0Hc+Z9DDgiNaxTvGV6hhgANbjFOFt85Qja2hZG7ayVkI f7emQCwtJziUFgmPprIHaqIgKrQd3BRzQY6B5UnKM8gntFbEg7BLeb2JIlFyhSXUfYx6udHh EkXYo//gEKyHz0iiBZ/xM629Yn5LkmLT5FimGg6DTnasBLOAp6K31IpiN9wDveSgtkHxLBXQ CSQXm+WeiZFrFutSofX2xUHd9MsUlWxY8pblLE8MZzkL++Ico0GKUAjikFfc1yOC1K9DNgmU wYEEI12JrDXY4R2pxCB6QJMKMMitM8vZhh5YQ8AOWutByCCFwmxxLnpRDF8hNOSf6PM8w7hQ IWJRYhWwN81uVuEgEalHQ6iULCukypvo3BE0TaA1hgzTCrFKpzznSc962vOe+MynPvfJz376 858aEuAPyukEgf7AoEpalazaCVASjecYrZTBznpgCoUCYaI9wKjI7qaEijb/1ES3kJI0FUWs HdzCogMt6Q46ARnpoNQHvmwIQz96BDO2xgZZpMtLfZBTnsavh1CI4zkCBaWd9sComeBYDXra A6EigakscFsLoHqYoBr1BVKdQVZZkJIYGRFWI3yTLK30Aqoa6aor/SkKAAOKnzo1CW/FAVtd pdYQ6RGRTUpYHN4IP0o0q5DAetanCAmuV2wDX8SZ2LkMldc3eG44r6yYNNnDh35FA7FeMexJ MOuWcrwxslqZ1pFyqtdjdVY3pcVX4rLjE4mxEJg+5IIMf3UvjpLjLq7tLGIt28pnkiE1p+NW YgkxLPkwjRmcRY9mW3skysbDsMwaaRVkpy+fcbGy/8HYnghl+JuaKTE+XkuIHcLyIKvtUG8h W0FbdOIXnHUtftlCzSv8covthQM6MdXEKZqB33H0F7v77WBrMjJfoJgtD0VpDSlaAS0ET2MW fiFQK4xDiu78rCQBZmYxAWuwebxDWzrpBB8awd6iQCcYDJaG9m5S4MbpbhWoGcNhuRDhQPp1 gw5mm4PFteIBx/UJ7vMg8uw3o+gFkRjKrJzM7qCL2rHyvNKLKq7aJ8ztmiCnZIEYbcOIuLDO ThuZ/NdSUAPV79w4DVk0z9mg55NbXYe08SNqT4tSkY1wSs5v+Up1vaK28RGiKJJc83Uk9sN5 7VnLIZziHfZRXbIQFQ0DRP/mFkasWVvsedKHCDLyJAiSDCYWa4e1GiPrejSBQk+EMeDUX6q8 ssyki1+GfVqsFTwgPm+R1g/CNVJarZV+nKLWaf61T8IJOn7c5xYIizMQafJgN3FqdmoqjlqX TZqtWQLFwtZwGAAzkTUYDCB9CdOtbssR8Pj1PmzrsWeCNZspaLrKU8xGO+so3h8CsDy5Sk6Z XGe2D7YwXo9qSyI7RjCV2pAZYsiu89ITi2ySo4XjaDghJJ4WXhNOkIZUWaA/hkxmcVBQHNcJ fJQNaiR+o90i/4jaRuwuod60NdwlTidwyPFBxefR9VgdDU8t76+cadwVvzIyWuO5Myg8hHcZ lG7/6O1DJnSnsxR7J7tBCT/7elLS6SGsfs2233RbXSAUita+8PG6JXlBEF2ebWYi2g48qAeH rQyNcNeOObGngdDDzZhu8H7a8zQSjmLXg3wk1nImn5adQ1Jzsj0ezGC4/TsiGxJEr/Od74QJ XwFTFuJfrZlBzJwQlidYEju8kM/N9ILLa0KD7rTVwu2H0QMqEJKjg5+qJUNCJ3hQrfNzCWwg TD+FS0iBhFejBcVOvDVy/fEXA/Bd7b5w2NKPgrbqe9HVYfeLkSr0y5Au4Ggf+8rPfilch5/w Y1/8ww9+7kURfv7ZhbxSNX4guBGPUaEqZ/NiHTdpyv+l1lVDfYUCvEJW//1XgDbwSQaYgAZ4 TQrYgA74gBAYgRI4gRRYgRZ4geiQXuBgf06HVjhCehm1f3yUURyIKh7IIYLAGJpEBFBEDv8X BXpVHhfRMO9yAjX4XCN1gwiigVfQbgLogzYgL+ykYuy3gqonVKdHIrYBDiJoUsb0gkD2N76j JodzL4dUWFfIM1n4E1mIEiUYA5tDgCOoA69ACY5RHrfhGDd1fWA2BanSKiDyaFy4BPEEh07w B59SD8ZkILXHE30oTP8AiLw2FmKIA2G4AihUA1NiTZ9EZfCRGYVoBG/4hRmSRblkBHX4hYsy BBJyeWpSHuKAb5ogiiOkMqU4FMYUgrlXHiS0A/+TwIA8Ixbgoz8epnqQwk6UmCG+lItyZUx2 iItFgEnIN2Tg8FzSkBrSMIf6UIT1EIk4NRRHU2pNyFWzNDOzcoZ3go1apAR0kiq1xyIncSyy 9g7ygXa09FiidjzWYnCCxXJApEniuDPNsljmkkuaN4cd5EIOt48j1Bv9CB7HSHeEkFq2FSyL lI/Tklifty04CF+MhEnGtVhq2DXHYQY38jmiYY/QNXPCE1E/sU6Vp2U04YwgYjQvU3QWgRJL sz8naTklJA+V44cfcxPh5ZKIERFaowx+g0mECC5ywzZ8oY3Y0o/MyBT7uDCc0GRQc116oYxa aDmAkxzSMTDRmIbexYP/c1gQLNlSfsVMVcImX4KRN5KVG3E3NZRlTJkeHNONEPcwL1I8ooBE cNBBZ8FApSMPj2NnHDd5yAAnu8NG0LIdoTJYWHceXbVu2jgR72cPi4kd+pYVoyEWqRhSs5VK QVaV79Met1d30iUMoaNmr1iKfgWKJgRacGk/kflgydZ0/aNLMXKaRDE9KTkG9baBLikWeDk+ BOJYrhmbVxaX8bIHoOdlgzliyTEamxh0JXNE6NIpzSksu5lwnmZMz2A0VDFEqJY3wPNV6lNB +eWFvfmS9mAx47kM1WkYsDkrnCZkJdSNSfGLJJKTUvI06IgGN7OG1jVyaGFHq6ULaINkQBUQ /2KkF0JxMmzjJhODTPswGtgiQ/e2ljmRM/cmSdDYOPEmRyqpDXwQEg6XekYWiMl2n7aXmZVl nKkBL0qlnfrCh8IklfbGToIhRm3EGBU0De5JDlNEktkDD+IYTASKhobUo6h0S4L1LAP3dt3S GOnBMtX4ORRzSoHUmUNmHlQ2WX5UjZOUkfIRd/igeUy6MPZyReFyLmswcguzbYv1pavAm0Da mbXjpetYWFdHhE+nGVInXLUgjMkUC5eIgWt1pToqK42Siox1IrConX46GQCRok2Qh2TIi9Vx qIlKHQM4qZZ6qZiaqZq6qZzaqZ76qaAKqgFAAAPgA6Naqk4gAAUgAP8FmIgMYRuBCiBQ4aou MAAHcKu3agCsygIBcKuougO9egC/GgMFgKu3uqoyIAC3uqtHEADFegDMKgLKaqwHUADD6gPK GgC7YEZO0Vqx+mFPwa0wYA8CQADVOgDmCq28aqvXigMBwK4i0KvRugKqegCk+qzaCgPlqq5I 8K62agAlMKrnOgC2egAGkK/Yyq+KQKvq4ELx1AJJ6BAMyxHL0KuoqqztigLC+gMbCwDKOq/0 yq+2CrIs8LFMUAAFcAIdKwLmmrI/IK+8MLHogCyEugLnNE7TSIwi0LEm2wIrywMr+6sCkLEl 0LO2irAv0LNJoLQk8LMAYK4kmwMHkK8uqwP/Q0sCVbtUOStR33oDNYtVJ4gDFamKU4UTJkCt BYC0KuC0OsC2AGCtJUutBDADTHsEcKuy12qxQLCrAwCwO3C3ANC3hri1MfC1A2W4LXCzwWiV ZPsQZlsC9kqwxeqy06qwBVusGVuvG+uskwsAzrqsI3C5PHuwgWusaksCGEuwBmCvInC5+SoA BvCsaSut0Fq5AcC51Tqt2oq50loA6aqr8ZquBFC5BaurWQu57Rq7rYurQru6wPu5Iluttzq3 qGus89q3z4quvhq6x6qtBbus1vu00zsCBFAABkC6pqJcXiePI2FYlflYzUBYGOMMi/WRcKcL 48GF/XJJZZqRp5cs/9UipElppM21WK4VLTdYj4TiSdsgW7JUDpP0TkMRtNBqsdgrApirve2q rKQKvtVqrpyrvayaweZaqrrrsbE7AFFLu8xarAEAuwS7sZervdT7sbZqrdPqu1MLwihswrka w1MbACm8rJhbrypMtADAtr4rvvfKur16rwBbwtX6ttM7AMUarapqAARbAsLbt+e6uqwKw/AK uzicxVtcwuwarMKqsBkKVL2RRmC0duRFluwZXlEpMk8TLOSFMo8ZTeQ4NFODMx8klTEDaq9m DZtQXb+SxyXER4EMUTTUe3MDRuQ0Q+nDoGf7qxbrr87ruSurxJQ7AO+qrgJQub6qtztbqv8C m69aHLfM+rHlWrAmzMNv67eVu6ujHMYeO7Ui0MoCu6s2zMvv+sKsW76eu8JOu8krC8Lfu6zp OsVZHK9OK7gmEM27rK0mG8vbCwCt3Lp+q8a5GrgGMLcrPJWniEUE9JibaRJ8gQdZmpTDQURL 8TaNbEavc1zbqKI4Y5tJqZ1+RDL1nDNipyf8xjwjqC7KpLOZPALyKsTCar67zKxsq7wkALO7 TLAEW8oKy7O8zM1IPAJKm63T2rcX29HUrKyTm68Wfc29XNK4DK1HWwJX7LbIWwJHi8rXzK4Y fbvPysvU7NE27bcmcNLCTMq+2s3dLM7STKoZ3dKI+EMHpEFDI2D/t3Ge7Jk4IVUG2qWij1Im 0QgUCJQUdiKNY3gm71Z0uaGdXGI8eqIMGyQPN2rVCl3RrOu5LmyyEN2rwAuvXCzDworKvTq7 VqzXrMrX2drLVQvR1cyvZFy6t1vXh/20tgytLcuqOI2xpVvDHQvCHLzLKRus34y+AVutr1vC vayuzgqwnf202Pu53ivU4xzUKEDU2qq3N13XFK3UvQy8yorYkHhDInpcb0QRZYMwL+qa/8kI HBpW60NGsuAxzZg3EZEsj/YbWYRz7fA7+ImQ/sw7efHPJSFv8NEow51f2eQ6x+0OTpnE1Ira 7V26uXqsAbu68v2sfvu9pIvf8o2rI4yr/79ctO1NuqZM2sxru7havsdq39Kcq6ubsgOOqj2N vobttu0NurQbvlQs3/QNzfx9uSTwvVjs3/xN3yqMthk+tSBuyoXt3wo0dtrGafTpFTEzp0nG X9XYHPERUe/cSOn2wJXUXdJESDHG4zwpwBj2Z2HwLINhN4MCkTUIpdFdyWFgPbZ0LanAgxiN 0airwoF7sVs8tCTb1B4r5mM+rENrwlyO0ZZNsNjMxp6b5VwO0ir8roWd0f5aqmrur6VM5v76 wlyeuqK85Wbe0R4723AOsneOtGAurWKe6Gd+vXHO0Du9048+5gJA528e6F2Oy2zO6Fvc4qFa IbldBXWLAs760f8Woo2hXiGXbgi4erwnMLKrPutwoeYlu8K0nuu6vuu83uu+/uvAHuzCPuzE XuzGfuzInuzKvuzM3uzO/uzQHu3SPu3UXu3Wfu3Ynu3avu3c3u3e/u3gHu7iPu7kXu7mfu7o nu7qvu79tAARMAHwHgELMALwXu/1vgAOYO/6Pu8noAAToAL6HvD1Lu8jsAAC/+8PIPAPgAIO 8O7xzu8AYO8k4PATgAAFT/ERoAAi4O8HHwEJH/ALTwLwHvIiYPDw7gAjgAD5Xu8oDwAfPwEr r+8AsPIPgAAwXwIjTwImf/MjEPMwb/Ep4O4sD/Q9b+8OAPQrT/QRX+8l7/Atv/MtDwD/HD8B DzD1ETACFB/wRN/wE3/wE7Dz/37xA6/xUg/vEO/y9a7xBk/2JZLvEeAADc/0ACD0cB/3+P72 cV/3b48C7372JSD0DwD3fZ/wb+/wQI8AhA/3hD/374737x71XY/3LF/yOV/w8Y71E+D4Jz/3 MA/3mS/48t74gs/zRU/6iA/vZG/yih/vCCD0EaDyJ//4AIAAfW/zfr/yUX/6E0D2Nt/5Mc/2 JSD6cU/1ItD7dZ/2Um/4Yn/1Bv/29Y4AtJ/5bB/9X6/7EB8Bmn/8bA/vRI/9o3/8Qk/6wu/0 s+/wEO/6Fm/wSi8iBg/5HA/06k/5CpDxlH/4wD8CHH/1Qb/7/8UPAg4CTA8AONNyniU7RSei ypPDstGk4MtEoyaj3u6k47F8KscNMFudVs9aE5cCGk1OGA6gi82EwVTMCMayrtBsLjI8Xd+s B9pXjritv+GvXBvR5YiRVL34ubzMTSQNXVUtngRGjXAZFSX9QOkMtkD5yHWFio6Slpqeoqaq 4uCFzgx9ytysxZZGPByR+iDhIE69aAEsQP2igM4URlWmgO5urWFGKAwV16yJuP5gOWi1huqs 6DRpExfN8LKEbWvV6iUjh/oIc6bZWFZuAV76QCH2HgYTpkiUjR9JBnbxhUZZGSWcIniCtGoi xYoWL3apxkjZCHhEQHVRIMRHwC7OZv9oQaRDDiJJz8zEoydoBDOTRdqxkvgSxy9vGQsO4tYi 2QmRN0RCIjOnzKtsceB085NQ6jyQAn1OjVTw0AglEURgI1GSBMBRLut5WQjgbAt2Mi0pU2ok Isa6du/aFYkurcF52ux9tFVmzyiHP8b9BfW375a/VINYrVmTCI8UhTlpVNdH1BOkNFMSbWtJ SqVibzsTFurlMVw9gkfp0Jp2XKO/j8bi89eFLSEAIh/zRmRZVKxPciEWZY13OfPmvhcuEBeX G2BMVosurm7zgQPpZNVMZRK7xle5eqzGmoyp8tuq6RbOKI+PJw07KFIqB2xfyYruvTjXx4Vq 431DlXrf6MT/ShmSgEOCHN0dJlpWEobC1hV/7RWcFgda594XXkChgHLOkVjiRPHFBEtQe+HU hThM0JHgenAg4cJTwERRxS/DxDRWEBzZ1JVubdAHzU48ZgMFGQO+JdIaP4j4YR0AKgmDaikY SWFcoriBJUFaSBJGLP6gKFYoufm4VoJWijefmme65aM3tYiDnBNZmpinnqY0GJh7cFzyZyhG 5YSnMwl1Mx+ZXBTjQzIR0ueWkSu1AJ12mWHh6E9rbLKhm2npAeUXMlIpCCKedZHCXiQECuhz Mqna2qtiUAoTqETcZpZOsdZAj4YvWNpELQhsgueexyL7Uwkq+lETAjG+QYexuUQj/4qX9DG1 WQsNSeckoJbCgIR9wBKjQzBKPFAbVZri4G0QC6VQiLmC2BkdGmHEoEQhIoEUb07BbNIEsUMq A9jAd0A6sBYDEyEGGTQB9nDB1OATnSaDhJHqfLWSh8mygPpBbWNKjpisySUi9dc12VW3iVou P6nNg9pIpbJfKrAsRMqOcZldHiyIuNi6Pmv8QzA701w0Piil4zI5FQJBWD1GXugH04osFlrB jkWb3SPa8OKs0DjEaHNj2VVKWGK99rX22UAYpi1f1fFjyXUn4+3cAkwkowDffEOzNxMgCR6W MHzL4TcT0Pw9hOIo/D24E5EzAWAJSROHeGGahwR4OpQTpf+4A9AoYCQCnnNWBZI9DIp6UVn+ jUrhkfGdKudw9MDEqpCPbnvkadTOeyGxC2/F7YdLngTf6CxAjbF5Qx+99M3VPTAMd0+fvfbb c9+99xYhEL7445Nfvvnno5+++uuzX/7e4194ffvz01+//ffjn7/++/Pfv//ify+AOGAAAQto wAMiMIEKXCADG+jAB0IQDxGAIAUraMELYjCDGtwgBzvowQ8eUIAiHCEJS2jCE6IwhSpcIQtb 6MIXwjCGMpwhDWtowxviMIc63CEPe+jDHwIxiEIcIhGLaMQjIjGJSlwiE5voxCdCMYpSnCIV q2jFK2Ixi1rcIhe76MUvgjGMYhz/IxnLaMYzojGNalwjG9voxjfCMY5ynCMd62jHO+Ixj3rc Ix/76Mc/AjKQghwkIQtpyEMiMpEYSYAEEqDIRwoRAhSY5CQbWRdKUrIBJWrAJB0JyU/6kJOO ZCQF7CIBCQCAlJokUQIo4ElQwjKHrXylK+vSAFSeQAKrdM4sY+nLG/YSAA2AgCoa8Eoc3JIF uixRMH/pzBi2kpLLTEUtQ5FMYeKSldV8JjdbGExOElOYlczlJDUpyUmGkwWcHCcy2UnKRjbA mJT0JCcl4EpSUsCejlxnNrvpzxE2k5PYPAEEICBKSZ5gm8hEJTjVicuCAkACxIwmAEoJAIja s5QGlegJ/0RZ0Xgq9J8i7V4zW3lRTLoykwk9pkPJucpzUrKiE6XAS+2Jy2sK9AS9zGg6R+rT 7QVUoz1NJQT0WVGWdhSX0XQkRNvJTo7i9KYWTWU1i0rTn2I1e61cJSM1yUlNMlKSCejlVUNx SnXmMwFfTSUqm6rTWp51oAm1pFjXStOwZjWvJoumNHfJT7Wq9KRlJWhg1wnStAq2nBHNZz35 OkqbRnOdFAhnTvVqWR1WtqjLueZlO2tDj+IVLyH1LGlhCNOhlja1ql0ta1vr2tfCNrayna33 murWU1yTkUilLW/zBNNKItWexBRuFySLSZCicqm9Xe6xQGtPFtg2nLd9qye3Kv/XYE6Tudpd TjOrKt3vimKbV81tNbO73fMusprDFEV0w4tU8u4WvfKlCF8Zy17whqK8lFXqaOfrX1V8c7IE fSl+u4DS/VI3l57MqFJPCdz/+jeoJyUwQVF71FwimKqONGo8NRzNcMYVwugtqUWn2d78vpe/ nlTvOVdMz6mKeLsSjiiFL2rhbW4VvivFpiarWU2Txvi81mXrKjl60Yf2862rXKc4R1nWq0J0 rR/tKIyD3Nv62lecjM1kTFDB1446NqPDROeHJXlLdFa0k1ZeM5vXksw3wznOcp4znets5zvj Oc963jOf++znPwM60IIeNK5dUmhDIzrRiNgvExvt6EcGQzrShAwBADs= --------------AttPart_07078127==.OLA-- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Fri Oct 21 04:18:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESs6r-0006VU-8L for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:18:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05393 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESsIw-0006z7-LG for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:31:12 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8Bq7Q024343 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9L8Bqor024600 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:52 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8BqJc019537 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77D726C0A6; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C514426C09C; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id j9L8BoYa568265; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 370E316A9F2; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Michael Young Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051021081150.GA2630@nic.fr> References: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 03:50:04PM -0400, Michael Young wrote a message of 20 lines which said: > If it doesn't suit your purposes then you can certainly volunteer to > improve it. I already said that it is not possible. From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Fri Oct 21 04:46:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESsY6-0005uF-Gd for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:46:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06891 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESskC-0007yg-MQ for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:59:21 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8e5Qo004537 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9L8e5uw005152 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8e5sY019376 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9L8e2j18131; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:03 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4358A965.509@knipp.de> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> In-Reply-To: <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9L8e5sY009126 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9L8e5Qo004537 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 06:08:31PM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: >> the clear disadvantage that every single XML element added as an exten= sion=20 >> of EPP diminishes the benefit of EPP, namely to have a generic interfa= ce=20 >> that can be used with a generic toolkit and a generic registrar softwa= re.=20 >=20 > I hear this all the time, and it troubles me. The point of the > extension mechanism is that it should be fairly trivial for an > extension to be prepared and made available. Since servers can > announce their capabilities when negotiating connection, what is the > overwhelming barrier? It it just a namespace problem, or are people > discovering that extensible servers or clients are really that tough > to build? >=20 > If it's the _former_ problem, all we need is a namespace registry, > right? If it's the latter, what would make the problem less > difficult to solve? A number of changes were recently proposed by > Scott. Where were the people reporting all these problems when we > were trying to gather reports of experience? (Once again, I'm > probably overlooking something self-evident to everyone else, but > maybe you folks could hit me with the clue stick.) >=20 > A >=20 Hi Andrew, this is a misunderstanding. It is not a problem how EPP negotiates the=20 extensions. Also, _implementing_ extensions on server or client side on t= he=20 protocol level is no rocket science, rather code monkey work (though the=20 definition of extensions not). It is more a philosophical question. If two registries belief there is a = need to=20 add a "language" field to the contacts, this will likely result in two di= fferent=20 extensions. Why? Well, the one registry also adds a field for favourite c= olour=20 to the contact, the other one also adds a field for the favourite car bra= nd.=20 Both won't separate the language field into a common extension that just = takes=20 care about the contact's language, which would, on the other hand, be the= only=20 correct way from a protocol's perspective. The uncontrolled extensibility= of a=20 protocol is the protocol's death. Take, for example, the Whois protocol a= ka RFC=20 3912, which has its roots in 1982. This protocol is extremely extensible,= but=20 the value of it is negligible. There are likely no two implementations of= the=20 protocol by two unrelated entities that are compatible. Those registrars = who=20 have implemented ICANN's Registrar Transfer Policy for thin registries kn= ow what=20 this means. So from a protocol's perspective, it is the best to nail down= =20 everything, and if any extensions are required, to have a standardization= body=20 to define them. However, from a broader view, the registry-registrar prot= ocol is=20 only a minor, although not unimportant, part of the registry. Here it loo= ks like=20 that the mountain has to come to the prophet, and not vice versa. Some=20 registries do the move the mountain, some only partially, and others not = at all. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Fri Oct 21 07:33:33 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESv9R-0002Nz-GJ for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:33:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15214 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESvLU-0005Fa-Ey for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:46:06 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LBQt9e011507 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:26:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LBQt7D001112 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:26:55 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from saturno.fccn.pt (saturno.fccn.pt [193.136.7.107]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9LBQsCh014276 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:26:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: (qmail 1590 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2005 11:26:49 -0000 Received: from dhcp31.fccn.pt (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (193.136.7.245) by saturno.fccn.pt with SMTP; 21 Oct 2005 11:26:49 -0000 Message-ID: <4358D06B.9010006@fccn.pt> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:26:35 +0100 From: Eugenio Pinto User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> In-Reply-To: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrycja Wegrzynowicz wrote: > Gerhard Winkler wrote: > > For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): > > the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and > > for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the > > gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). > > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > > (except of receiving notifications of course). > > Hi Gerhard, > > Scott's proposal sounds very fine for your case; although I'd like to > put my 2 cents to your problem. ;) > > 1. Considering Scott's approach one MINOR note to mention: > command must be sent by the registrar which is > not the sponsoring client. It's only the minor note as according to EPP > standard the restriction of this action to the sponsoring client is only > recommended. However, worth to keep this in mind. > > 2. Your transfer process seems a lot like ours (.PL registry). .PL also > requires the registrant to confirm/authorize the transfer request. > Although the implementation is a bit different from yours proposal: > - the gaining registrar sends request > - the registry sends email with 'confirmation link' to the registrant > - the registrant clicks 'confirmation link' and then the transfer is done > > As you see we decided to skip forwarding token forth-and-back in the > registry/registrar/registrant circle. From the semantic point of view > IMO it's more clear since such round-trip seems redundant. I see some > possible explanations of the 'token' approach... although it's more > question to you... what are your reasons behind having token approach > instead of, for example, direct confirmation? > > Best, > Patrycja > Hi! We, at the .PT Registry, are doing the same way as described in point 2. It seemed to be the best aproach to us. Best Regards, Goncalves Pinto From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Fri Oct 21 08:18:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESvrF-0008Ul-55 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:18:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17857 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESw3M-0006yN-KF for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:31:22 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LCC4No028584 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LCC4a4007865 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:04 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from saturno.fccn.pt (saturno.fccn.pt [193.136.7.107]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9LCC3bA001203 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: (qmail 11913 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2005 12:11:59 -0000 Received: from dhcp31.fccn.pt (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (193.136.7.245) by saturno.fccn.pt with SMTP; 21 Oct 2005 12:11:59 -0000 Message-ID: <4358DB02.9010305@fccn.pt> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:11:46 +0100 From: Eugenio Pinto User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> In-Reply-To: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9LCC4No028584 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I would like you to consider doing a webpage for the ietfprovreg wg with=20 the purpose of developing EPPv2 It would represent the EPPv2 working base and it would have someting like= : - The entire list of TLD's with a description of the working done in=20 EPP for each TLD, that could include: *if they are running EPP (or a test bed) or not If so what were the necessary extensions to the protocol=20 (it could be a draft) *if they are intended to implement EPP or not If so what is the estimated time delay to do so If not, the reasons for that. *if they think implementing EPP in them Registry is impossible=20 and why (it could be a draft) For those who think that it doesn't worth it, I only have a=20 rhyme from a portuguese poet: "(...)Tudo vale a pena Quando a Alma n=E3o =E9 pequena(...)" Which means all the effort worth it if you don't have a=20 closed soul (something like that) I think if we can do such a collection of information it would be much=20 easier to accomplish all the extensions in the new version of EPP And it could have another facility: to provide a base of knowing what's=20 the perfect time to begin doing that effort of accomplishing all the=20 extensions (it would be done only if there was a sufficient and relevant=20 working base to do so) Maybe a service like that could break the inertia that's present in a=20 great number of the Registries.. Best Regards, Goncalves Pinto =20 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Fri Oct 21 12:30:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESzmV-0008LG-G5 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:30:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA17153 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESzyf-0004ko-12 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:42:46 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LGMghu018686 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:22:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LGMgIP014222 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:22:42 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LGMfwH011385 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:22:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESzfD-0005Hl-Ni for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:39 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id CA00513744; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:29 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4358A965.509@knipp.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 10:40:05AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > favourite car brand. Both won't separate the language field into a common > extension that just takes care about the contact's language, which would, > on the other hand, be the only correct way from a protocol's perspective. > The uncontrolled extensibility of a protocol is the protocol's death. Take, This argument is nonsense. It is simply a dogmatic insistence that people can't compromise to make general operation smoother for everyone, even if the cost of that is a slightly greater burden for particular individuals. If that is true, the IETF is a complete waste of time. It happens to be true that sometimes people act unco-operatively: the "Tragedy of the Commons" is neither impossible nor unknown. But it isn't a law of nature, either; and the successful functioning of commons in parts of the world during various historical periods proves as much.[1] It is also lamentably true that some people in the registry community are unwilling to co-operate to make things overall easier for everyone over the long run. That does not entail that protocols designed to serve such co-operation are doomed; and in fact, the extremely helpful comments I received from folks on this list (and also, earlier, from Scott Hollenbeck and James Gould) when I raised some issues that we at Afilias had experienced demonstrates to me that co-operation is possible. Others used some of their time to help co-ordinate a response to a problem that I had. > There are likely no two implementations of the [whois] protocol by > two unrelated entities that are compatible. Those registrars who > have implemented ICANN's Registrar Transfer Policy for thin > registries know what this means. So from a protocol's perspective, > it is the best to nail down everything, and if any extensions are > required, to have a standardization body to define them. By this logic, HTML is also a failure, because of the ease with which people were able to ignore the recommendations of the W3C and create horrors like or tags. X- headers in email are also an abomination, because nobody can control them and so systems use them in ways that aren't approved by your favourite official standards dictator. I don't see that such positions are tenable. That an extensible protocol may be made so flexible as to be no protocol at all is hardly news. But it's some sort of reverse bald-man fallacy to assert therefore that every flexible protocol will never work. We do have a standards body for these things: it's the IETF. If some people don't like the way it works and the costs it imposes (like, for instance, that one has to co-operate with others when the standards are being designed), well, they'll go play in some other sandbox in exactly the way you describe. But of course, they're free to do that anyway: the design of the Internet all but ensures that the level of protocol we're talking about simply can't be enforced by anyone, except maybe through contractual obligations. Now, this sort of standardisation is, of course, dependent on people playing nice. It turns out that every sort of reasonably happy human endeavour works the same way. You can make any city nominally safe and clean through the means of a police state; but the safe, clean cities we like are the ones where the residents mostly don't need to be forced not to beat each other up and not to dump their garbage wherever they happen to be standing. And that requires the majority of residents to co-operate. A [1] Note that this is not an argument that the Internet is a commons or any other such side issue. -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Fri Oct 21 19:03:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ET5vR-0002pw-Ep for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:03:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA25436 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ET67f-0002DM-2C for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:16:27 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LMrRbM007643 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:53:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LMrRrl014514 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:53:27 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LMrOlh008995 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:53:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9LMCQj05491; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:12:27 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:12:25 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> In-Reply-To: <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9LMrRbM007643 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 10:40:05AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: >=20 >=20 >>favourite car brand. Both won't separate the language field into a comm= on=20 >>extension that just takes care about the contact's language, which woul= d,=20 >>on the other hand, be the only correct way from a protocol's perspectiv= e.=20 >>The uncontrolled extensibility of a protocol is the protocol's death. T= ake,=20 >=20 >=20 > This argument is nonsense. It is simply a dogmatic insistence that > people can't compromise to make general operation smoother for > everyone, even if the cost of that is a slightly greater burden for > particular individuals. If that is true, the IETF is a complete > waste of time. >=20 I didn't say that. People can compromise. If they believe they have a ben= efit=20 from it, directly or indirectly. They won't if there aren't enough incent= ives. > [...] >>There are likely no two implementations of the [whois] protocol by >>two unrelated entities that are compatible. Those registrars who >>have implemented ICANN's Registrar Transfer Policy for thin >>registries know what this means. So from a protocol's perspective, >>it is the best to nail down everything, and if any extensions are >>required, to have a standardization body to define them.=20 >=20 >=20 > By this logic, HTML is also a failure, because of the ease with which > people were able to ignore the recommendations of the W3C and create > horrors like or tags. Hmm. Maybe you don't know. HTML is dead. HTML is the prototype of a faile= d=20 standard in many ways. W3C is working for many, many years now to fix tha= t. > X- headers in email are also > an abomination, because nobody can control them and so systems use > them in ways that aren't approved by your favourite official > standards dictator. I don't see that such positions are tenable.=20 Well, I can send e-mails to nearly everyone connected to the Internet wit= hout=20 using X-headers. But I can't register a .us, .coop, .eu domain, for examp= le,=20 without using the appropriate proprietary extensions. I can do this only = for=20 vanilla registries, mostly gTLDs. There is a difference at least to me. By the way, you are the one who wants to dictate every registry to use a=20 standard, namely EPP. I just question the value of a standard that is=20 practically incomplete for a non-negligible number of registries in the o= ne=20 hand, and too limited for them at the same time in the other hand. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From LindaHarrell@sonnen-kinder.net Sat Oct 22 15:11:40 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETOmK-0007a1-3Q for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:11:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25834; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ETOyi-0001aS-0V; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:24:28 -0400 Received: from c-24-60-93-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([24.60.93.109]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ETOm9-0002N0-DW; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:11:29 -0400 Received: from Susw@localhost by dBWo.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:09:23 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Sarah Hogue" Reply-To: "Sarah Hogue" To: proceedings@ietf.org Cc: proval@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Thousands of academic software titles, 80% off, Instant Download Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:05:23 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: LindaHarrell@sonnen-kinder.net Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--sbTooqM9Th7gRMGvu85F" X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 ol1e ----sbTooqM9Th7gRMGvu85F Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 6
Choose:
&nbs= p;

List Price:= $279.00
Price:$49.99
You Save:$229.01 (85= %)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: ISe229
M= edia: CD-ROM / Download

System requirements  |  Accessories  |  Other Versions

Fe= atures:

  • Designed for businesses of all sizes
  • Manage digital pictures, music, video, DVDs, and more
  • More security with the ability = to encrypt files and folders
  • Built-in voice, video, and instant messaging support
  • Integration with Windows servers and management = solutions

Sales Rank: #2
= Shipping: International/US or via instant download Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 868 reviews. Write a review.

Adobe Cr= eative Suite Premium
Adobe
=
Choose:=
 

<= b>You Save:



Availability: Available for INSTANT do= wnload!
Coupon Code: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download=

System requirements  |  Accessories  |  Oth= er Versions

Features:

  • An integrated de= sign environment featuring the industry's foremost design tools
  • In-depth tips, expert tricks, and = comprehensive design resources
  • Intuitive file finding, smooth workflow, and common interface and toolse= t
  • Single installer--control = what you install and when you install it
  • Cross-media publishing--create content for both print and the= Web

Sales Rank: #3 Shipping: International/US or via instant download<= br> Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 498 reviews. Write a review.

List Price: $1149.00
Price:$99.99
$849.01 (90%)

<= /table>
Opt-in Email Special Offer &n= bsp;   unsubscribe me
<= table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D155 border=3D0>
SEARCH
=

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

=
 = <= td width=3D8>5 
<= p align=3Dcenter>  ON SALE NOW!

 = ;1 Office Pro Edition 2003
2= Windows XP Pro
 3= Adobe Creative Suite Premiu= m
 4 Syste= mworks Pro 2004 Edition
  <= font face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica size=3D1> Flash MX 2004
 = ;6 Corel Painter 8
 7 Adobe Acrobat 6.0
8 Windows 2003 Server
 9 Alias Maya 6.0 Wavef= ront
 10 A= dobe Premiere
  See= more by this manufacturer
&n= bsp;  Micro= soft
  = Apple = Software
  Customer= s also bought
   these other items.= .



Microsoft Office Professional Edition = *2003*
Microsoft
Choose:
&nb= sp;
List Price:$899.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$830.01 (92%)


=
Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Co= de: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download

System requireme= nts  |  Accesso= ries  |  Other = Versions

Features:

  • Analyze and manage busi= ness information using Access databases
  • Exchange data with other systems using enhanced XML technology=
  • Control information sharing= rules with enhanced IRM technology
  • Easy-to-use wizards to create e-mail newsletters and printed marke= ting materials
  • More than 20 = preformatted business reports
= Sales Rank: #1
Shipping: International/US o= r via instant download
Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
= Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based o= n 1,768 reviews. Write a revi= ew.
Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longh= orn Edition
Microsoft <= /span>
Choose:
 

= =
List Price:$279.00
Price:$49.99
You = Save:$229.01 (85%)

<= a href=3Dhttp://septembersoftoutlets.com/?q>

Availability: Available for INSTANT= download!
Coupon Code: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Downl= oad

System requirements  |  Accessories  |  Other Versions

Fea= tures:

  • Designed for businesses of all sizes
  • Manage digital pictures, music, video, DVDs, and more
  • More security with the ability t= o encrypt files and folders
  • = Built-in voice, video, and instant messaging support
  • Integration with Windows servers and management s= olutions

Sales Rank: #2
= Shipping: International/US or via instant download
= Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
= Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 868 reviews. Write a review.

Adobe Creative Suite Premium
Adobe
Choose:
=  

List Price: $1149.00
Price:$99.99
You Save:$849.01 (90%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coup= on Code: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download

System requ= irements  |  Ac= cessories  |  O= ther Versions

Features:

  • An integrated = design environment featuring the industry's foremost design tools
  • In-depth tips, expert tricks, an= d comprehensive design resources
  • Intuitive file finding, smooth workflow, and common interface and too= lset
  • Single installer--contr= ol what you install and when you install it
  • Cross-media publishing--create content for both print and = the Web

Sales Rank: #= 3
Shipping: International/US or via instant downlo= ad
Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 498 reviews. Write a review.

=

----sbTooqM9Th7gRMGvu85F-- From DianeStone@restaurant-cafe.net Sun Oct 23 13:00:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETjCa-00055c-Ke for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:00:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15239; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 201-27-13-200.dsl.telesp.net.br ([201.27.13.200]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ETjP8-0008DD-Cz; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:13:08 -0400 Received: from z43E@localhost by Ddy0.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:49:00 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Diane Platt" Reply-To: "Diane Platt" To: proceedings@ietf.org Cc: proval@ietf.org, provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Re: OEM Windows, Windows, & XP Pro on Sale Now Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:58:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: DianeStone@restaurant-cafe.net Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--9DFHzEWHAVuBy4rltqh" X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 453b1bfcf0292bffe4cab90ba115f503 eyOJ ----9DFHzEWHAVuBy4rltqh Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2
Opt-in Email Special Offer &n= bsp;   unsubscribe me
SEARCH
=

<= /td>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES
<= td width=3D4> = = = <= td width=3D4> <= td width=3D129> these other items...=
<= p align=3Dcenter>  ON SALE NOW!

 = ;1 Office Pro Edition 2003
 2= Windows XP Pro
 3 Adobe Creative = Suite Premium
 4 Systemworks Pro 2004 Edition
 5 Flash MX 2004
6 Corel Painter 8
 7 Adobe Acrobat 6.= 0
 8 W= indows 2003 Server
 9 Alias Maya 6.0 Wavefront
 10 Adobe Premiere
  See more by this manufacturer<= /b>
   Microsoft
  Apple Software
  Customers also bought
  

=


Microsoft Office Professional Edition *2003*
Microsof= t
Choose:
 
List Price:$899.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:= $830.01 (92%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon C= ode: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download

System requ= irements  |  Accessories  |  Other Versions

Features:<= font size=3D1>

  • Analyze an= d manage business information using Access databases
  • Exchange data with other systems using enhanced X= ML technology
  • Control inform= ation sharing rules with enhanced IRM technology
  • Easy-to-use wizards to create e-mail newsletters and = printed marketing materials
  • = More than 20 preformatted business reports
Sales Rank: #1
Shipping: Inter= national/US or via instant download
Date Coupon Expires: May 30= th, 2005
Average Customer Review: Based on 1,768 reviews. Write a review.
<= tr>		Microsoft Windows XP Prof= essional or Longhorn Edition
Microsoft
Choose:
 

=

List Price:$279.00
Price:$49.99
You Save:<= /td>$229.01 (= 85%)



Av= ailability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: IS= e229
Media: CD-ROM / Download

System requirements  |  Accessori= es  |  Othe= r Versions

Features:

  • Designed for busin= esses of all sizes
  • Manage di= gital pictures, music, video, DVDs, and more
  • More security with the ability to encrypt files and folde= rs
  • Built-in voice, video, an= d instant messaging support
  • = Integration with Windows servers and management solutions

    • Sales Rank: #2
    Shipping:= International/US or via instant download
    Date Coupon Expires:<= /b> May 30th, 2005
    Average Customer Revie= w: 3D"5 Based on 868 reviews. Write a review.

    =
Adobe Creative Suite Pre= mium
Adobe <= br>
Choose:<= td>
&nb= sp;=

List Price: $1149.00
Price:$99.99
You Save:$849.01= (90%)



= Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: = ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download

System requirements<= /a>  |  Accesso= ries  |  Ot= her Versions

Features:

  • An integrated d= esign environment featuring the industry's foremost design tools
  • In-depth tips, expert tricks, and= comprehensive design resources
  • Intuitive file finding, smooth workflow, and common interface and toolse= t
  • Single installer--control = what you install and when you install it
  • Cross-media publishing--create content for both print and the= Web

Sales Rank: #3 Shipping: International/US or via instant download<= br> Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 498 reviews. Write a review.

=

----9DFHzEWHAVuBy4rltqh-- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Mon Oct 24 04:50:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETy2F-0002Eq-HL for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 04:50:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA25500 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 04:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ETyEw-0002g5-OG for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:03:36 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9O8hKx2020678 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:43:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9O8hKwe007038 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:43:20 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx1.univie.ac.at (mx1.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.28]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9O8hI6h019519 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:43:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.249.133]) by mx1.univie.ac.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9O8f28o027444; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:41:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from gw@localhost) by snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9O8f1v132462; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:41:01 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:41:01 +0200 From: Gerhard Winkler To: Patrycja Wegrzynowicz Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051024104101.A187210@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl>; from Patrycja Wegrzynowicz on Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:54:48PM +0200 X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: mx9.univie.ac.at 4249; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:54:48PM +0200, Patrycja Wegrzynowicz wrote: > Gerhard Winkler wrote: > > For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): > > the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and > > for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the > > gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). > > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > > (except of receiving notifications of course). > > Hi Gerhard, Hi Patrycja! > > Scott's proposal sounds very fine for your case; although I'd like to > put my 2 cents to your problem. ;) > > 1. Considering Scott's approach one MINOR note to mention: > command must be sent by the registrar which is > not the sponsoring client. It's only the minor note as according to EPP > standard the restriction of this action to the sponsoring client is only > recommended. However, worth to keep this in mind. That's the point where I feel uncomfortable. It's not very nice to implement a policy checking module for access rights where every business case is handled in one way except one single transaction which is handled in another way. But it's manageable to implement. > > 2. Your transfer process seems a lot like ours (.PL registry). .PL also > requires the registrant to confirm/authorize the transfer request. > Although the implementation is a bit different from yours proposal: > - the gaining registrar sends request > - the registry sends email with 'confirmation link' to the registrant > - the registrant clicks 'confirmation link' and then the transfer is done This is exactly what we are currently doing. > > As you see we decided to skip forwarding token forth-and-back in the > registry/registrar/registrant circle. From the semantic point of view > IMO it's more clear since such round-trip seems redundant. I see some > possible explanations of the 'token' approach... although it's more > question to you... what are your reasons behind having token approach > instead of, for example, direct confirmation? One advantage for the gaining registrar is to control the point in time when the transfer is passed. The gaining registrar is able to initiate other transactions without polling the registry for the current status of the transfer immediately. From the semantic point of view you can see it also the other way round. The registrant gives authorization to the registrar for a transaction. This can be embeded in a more complex process at the registrars side. kind regards -Gerhard -- Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at Vienna University Computer Center | Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Mon Oct 24 09:16:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EU2Bw-0007fG-Fs for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:16:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09182 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EU2Of-0003KL-8S for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:29:55 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OD8HvE005214 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:08:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9OD8H8i015292 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:08:17 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OD8G6q026659 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:08:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1EU23i-0006id-Id for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:14 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 6D91D13744; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:03 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051024130802.GA29890@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 12:12:25AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > > I didn't say that. People can compromise. If they believe they have a > benefit from it, directly or indirectly. They won't if there aren't enough > incentives. Well, this is different from the position as you put it before, where the suggestion is that the registries _can't_ compromise. If you're merely making the assertion that they _won't_, then it's a question that is empirically satisfied. But given that (for example) NeuStar, VeriSign, and Afilias managed together to co-ordinate a response to the ICANN redemption grace period, there's at least _prima facie_ evidence that your assertion is false. > Hmm. Maybe you don't know. HTML is dead. HTML is the prototype of a failed > standard in many ways. W3C is working for many, many years now to fix that. But it was nevertheless hugely successful, even if it's not pure. The point here, as I understand it, is at least partly "running code"; and by that estimation, HTML was a wild success. > Well, I can send e-mails to nearly everyone connected to the Internet > without using X-headers. But I can't register a .us, .coop, .eu domain, for > example, without using the appropriate proprietary extensions. I can do > this only for vanilla registries, mostly gTLDs. There is a difference at > least to me. First, there _are_ people who use X headers as tokens for various things, which then extend the functionality of those systems (it seems to me that I've had messages from a Lotus Notes user that contained more X-headers than anything else). I couldn't use that functionality, because I didn't know what the headers meant. Does that meant that those particular X-headers are bad? (I say, "No.") More significantly, though, your argument above seems to be that, because you have to use this or that extension to a base protocol to express this or that unusual policy in a given registry, that proves that the base protocol is not useful. It's really a false dichotomy: either the protocol can be used everywhere, or it's not a protocol. You're welcome to that view; but with respect, I think it's not one consistent with a large portion of technical or even human experience: "SQL" is still a useful name for something, even though the way you express it when using Oracle, DB2, PostgreSQL, or MS SQL Server are different. > By the way, you are the one who wants to dictate every registry to use a > standard, namely EPP. I just question the value of a standard that is > practically incomplete for a non-negligible number of registries in the one > hand, and too limited for them at the same time in the other hand. I don't want to dictate anything: use what you want. I am suggesting, however, that the limitations you are observing can be solved by the creative use of the extension mechanism; and that co-ordination on that front may be achieved through the IETF. Therefore, I claim it would be more helpful to suggest alterations or extensions than it is to stand by and make sweeping claims about disutility. In my opinion, registries that adopt, extend, and improve EPP have an advantage over those that stick with a different base protocol. This is a matter for empirical discovery, though; and it'd be hard to test my hypothesis if we don't have any hold outs. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 From NoreenSingh@british-columbia-tourism.com Mon Oct 24 11:59:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EU4jt-0006nb-2X for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:59:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17398 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EU4wd-0000CU-Gt for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:13:09 -0400 Received: from [84.7.19.54] (helo=JCRUM) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EU4jc-0006c5-QK for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:59:47 -0400 Received: from VOo@localhost by wOzI.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:11:30 +0600 Message-ID: From: "Kimberly Reed" Reply-To: "Kimberly Reed" To: pilc-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Out of this WoRLD $aving$ on all AutoCAD titles Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:02:30 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: NoreenSingh@british-columbia-tourism.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--89881518411129689613" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 453b1bfcf0292bffe4cab90ba115f503 LEom ----89881518411129689613 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable f
Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
SEARCH

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

8=

 = ON SALE NOW!

 1 Office Pro 2003
 2 = Adobe Photoshop 9.0
 3 Windows XP Pro
 4 = Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
 5 Flash MX 2004
 6 Corel Draw 12
 7 = Norton Antivirus 2005
  Windows 2003 Server
 9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
&nb= sp;10 Adobe = Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer=
 &nb= sp; Microsoft
   Sym= antec
  = ; Adobe
  Customers also bought
   these other items...

Microsoft Office Professional Edition *2003* Microsoft

Choose:
 

List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$429.0= 1 (86%)

<= img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add-to= -cart-yellow-short.gif width=3D113 height=3D23>

Availabilit= y: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: RLfJOEpN  

Sales Rank: #1
= System requiremen= ts  |  Other Versions
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, = 2005
Average Customer Review:3D"5= Based on 182919 reviews. Write a rev= iew.

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
Adobe

Choose:
 =

List Price:$599.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$529.0= 1 (90%)

<= img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add-to= -cart-yellow-short.gif width=3D113 height=3D23>

Availabilit= y: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: A240R
&= nbsp;

Sales Rank: #2
System requirements<= /a>  |  Other Versions<= /span>
Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 200= 5
Average Customer Review:3D"5 Ba= sed on 165382 reviews. Write a review= .

Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Long= horn Edition
Microsoft

Choose:
<= /td> 
<= /tr>
List Price:$279.00
Price:$49.99
Y= ou Save:$229.01 (85%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT downl= oad!
Coupon Code: xP8wKi
 

Sales Rank: #3
System requirements  |  Other Versions
= Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
<= b>Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 11642 reviews. Write a review.

A= dobe Acrobat Professional V 7.0
Adobe

Cho= ose:
 

= =
List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99
You = Save:$429.01 (85%)

<= a href=3Dhttp://oemhalloween.com/?z>

Availability: Available for INSTANT downloa= d!
Coupon Code: VcdOFx
 

Sales Rank: #4
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Da= te Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
= Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 1834 reviews. Write a review.

----89881518411129689613-- From jorge_arroy@hotmail.com Mon Oct 24 12:08:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EU4s3-0008QS-L9 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:08:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA17907 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bay20-f10.bay20.hotmail.com ([64.4.54.99] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EU54n-0000Wl-23 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:21:36 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:10 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 80.179.236.90 by by20fd.bay20.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:08:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.179.236.90] X-Originating-Email: [jorge_arroy@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jorge_arroy@hotmail.com Reply-To: jorgearroyo@pnetmail.co.za From: "Jorge Arroyo" To: jorge_arroy@hotmail.com Subject: PARTNERSHIP Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:08:09 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2005 16:08:10.0030 (UTC) FILETIME=[20C3A4E0:01C5D8B5] X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Dear Friend, I am the confidant of the ex-president of the Ecuador (President Lucio Gutierrez ) who was recently removed from power and presidently granted poltical asylum in Brazil with strict instruction not to leave brazil. You can see link below: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4467389.stmhttp://p107.news.scd.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050425/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_gutierrez/nc:734http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=1986290&PageNum=0He Has secretly informed me to seek for a geniune and kind hearted person who will be able to claim and invest the sum of TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FIVE MILLON United States DOLLER which he had secretly deposited with a private Financial Organization in the European Union before the incident that resulted in his fleeing for asylum. The new government is trying all efforts to sieze all moneys that belongs to the former President Lucio Gutierrez .Your assistance in now needed to lay claim to this money since it was deposited in the name of a "Foreign Partner" Fiticious.I personally will not be able to handle such transaction now since I am still a serving officer in the country's Army but as a confidant of the former President Lucio Gutierrez I am ready to help him seek for help. I request that you provide me with your full names, contact address, occupation Telephone and fax numbers.Once these Information is received I will provide you with the necessary and relevant documents that will put you in place as the Original Owner of the money.Mr Lucio has already instructed that 70% of this money will be for him while the remaining 305 will be for you and I can assure that the this transaction is risk Free.Upon your respons I will introduce you to an attorney whole will provide you with guidelines and assiatnce too.For now I will suggest that all correspondence should be via thie medium (Email) for purely security reasons and No doubt this proposal will make you apprehensive, please I employ you to observe utmost confidentiality and rest assured that this transaction would be most profitable for both of us because we shall require your assistance to invest our share in your country (buying of properties like houses, hotels etc)Your timely response will be awaited via email:jorgearroyo@pnetmail.co.za Regards Jorge Arroyo _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Mon Oct 24 12:36:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EU5Iu-00028A-S5 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:36:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19235 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EU5Vc-0001NE-AD for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:49:21 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OGSBNL014357 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9OGSB1r022538 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:11 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OGSAI2028123 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9OGSAs08264; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:11 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435D0BA6.6060405@knipp.de> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:22 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> <20051024130802.GA29890@libertyrms.info> In-Reply-To: <20051024130802.GA29890@libertyrms.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9OGSBI2024215 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9OGSBNL014357 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 12:12:25AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: >> I didn't say that. People can compromise. If they believe they have a=20 >> benefit from it, directly or indirectly. They won't if there aren't en= ough=20 >> incentives. >=20 > Well, this is different from the position as you put it before, where > the suggestion is that the registries _can't_ compromise. If you're > merely making the assertion that they _won't_, then it's a question > that is empirically satisfied. But given that (for example) NeuStar, > VeriSign, and Afilias managed together to co-ordinate a response to > the ICANN redemption grace period, there's at least _prima facie_ > evidence that your assertion is false. >=20 You likely did it because you believed that you would have a benefit from= the=20 cooperation. No contradiction to what I wrote. >> Hmm. Maybe you don't know. HTML is dead. HTML is the prototype of a fa= iled=20 >> standard in many ways. W3C is working for many, many years now to fix = that. >=20 > But it was nevertheless hugely successful, even if it's not pure.=20 > The point here, as I understand it, is at least partly "running > code"; and by that estimation, HTML was a wild success. =20 >=20 Well, no doubt that HTML was a success. But mostly because it was broken = by=20 Netscape & MS, who introduced elements like the element or various= =20 attributes for tables etc. that allowed the usersto "design" their pages = for the=20 first time instead of having them to look like scientific essays, and who= wrote=20 HTML parsers that forgave nearly every syntactical error of the author. >> Well, I can send e-mails to nearly everyone connected to the Internet=20 >> without using X-headers. But I can't register a .us, .coop, .eu domain= , for=20 >> example, without using the appropriate proprietary extensions. I can d= o=20 >> this only for vanilla registries, mostly gTLDs. There is a difference = at=20 >> least to me. >=20 > First, there _are_ people who use X headers as tokens for various > things, which then extend the functionality of those systems (it > seems to me that I've had messages from a Lotus Notes user that > contained more X-headers than anything else). I couldn't use that > functionality, because I didn't know what the headers meant. Does > that meant that those particular X-headers are bad? (I say, "No.") >=20 Please read what I have written. I never claimed that X-headers are bad. = Also,=20 in a closed user group, it is not a problem to use proprietary extensions. > More significantly, though, your argument above seems to be that, > because you have to use this or that extension to a base protocol to > express this or that unusual policy in a given registry, that proves > that the base protocol is not useful. It's really a false dichotomy: > either the protocol can be used everywhere, or it's not a protocol.=20 > You're welcome to that view; but with respect, I think it's not one > consistent with a large portion of technical or even human > experience: "SQL" is still a useful name for something, even though > the way you express it when using Oracle, DB2, PostgreSQL, or MS SQL > Server are different. Again, you interpret my words in a false way. I clearly indicated that it= will=20 become _less_ useful. Same applies to SQL. >=20 >> By the way, you are the one who wants to dictate every registry to use= a=20 >> standard, namely EPP. I just question the value of a standard that is=20 >> practically incomplete for a non-negligible number of registries in th= e one=20 >> hand, and too limited for them at the same time in the other hand. >=20 > I don't want to dictate anything: use what you want. I am > suggesting, however, that the limitations you are observing can be > solved by the creative use of the extension mechanism; and that > co-ordination on that front may be achieved through the IETF.=20 > Therefore, I claim it would be more helpful to suggest alterations or > extensions than it is to stand by and make sweeping claims about > disutility. In my opinion, registries that adopt, extend, and > improve EPP have an advantage over those that stick with a different > base protocol. This is a matter for empirical discovery, though; and > it'd be hard to test my hypothesis if we don't have any hold outs. >=20 > A >=20 Sorry to say that, I don't know whether it is the language barrier and my= bad=20 English, your personal dislike of critism on EPP or even a breeze of arro= gance=20 that you constantly miss the point I am talking about. If you had read my= =20 previous postings carefully enough, you wouldn't fight on non-existing ba= ttle=20 fields. Therefore, I regard any further discussion on this topic as a was= te of=20 my time. As I have to waste my time elsewhere, e.g. on implementing the E= URid=20 EPP extensions (@EURid: no personal attack, but a matter of fact), I won'= t=20 continue the discussion. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From samtgemeinde@nysportsfans.com Mon Oct 24 23:29:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUFUk-0002Fl-BF for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:29:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA15703 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe-65-25-34-159.neo.res.rr.com ([65.25.34.159] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUFhY-0003Av-JS for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:42:20 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5d913$4d097a80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Garrett Young" To: Subject: Stop throwing away your money Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:32:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D913.4D097A80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D913.4D097A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! Name Patches Regular Now Steel Package 10 Patches $79.95 $49.95 Free shipping Silver Package 25 Patches $129.95 $99.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included Gold Package 40 Patches $189.95 $149.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included Platinum Package 65 Patches $259.95 $199.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D913.4D097A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results.

Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind!

As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself!

Here's the link to check out!

Name Patches Regular Now
Steel Package 10 Patches $79.95 $49.95 Free shipping
Silver Package 25 Patches $129.95 $99.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included
Gold Package 40 Patches $189.95 $149.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included
Platinum Package 65 Patches $259.95 $199.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D913.4D097A80-- From 033sanjeev@about.com Tue Oct 25 01:37:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUHUn-0005SL-Ja for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:37:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA21252 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.51.102.203] (helo=61.51.102.203) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUHhO-0006TG-FV for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:50:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Jennifer A. Clark" <033sanjeev@about.com> To: provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: =?iso-8859-1?B?QWRvYmUgUGhvdG9zaG9wIDguMCAtIHdob2xlc2FsZSBwcmljZQ==?= Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:25:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_3EE40D91.3FD8CB15" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express V6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_3EE40D91.3FD8CB15 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_A924B4F4.90212AA7" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_A924B4F4.90212AA7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Access all the software you ever imagined for less! We sell software 2-6 times cheaper than retail price. Just a few examples: $79.95 Windows XP Professional (Including: Service Pack 2) $89.95 Microsoft Office 2003 Professional / $79.95 Office XP Professional $99.95 Adobe Photoshop 8.0/CS (Including: ImageReady CS) $69.95 Dreamweaver MX 2004 / Flash MX 2004 / Fireworks MX $149.95 Adobe Creative Suite Premium (5 CD) $79.95 Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Professional $69.95 MS Project 2003 Professional Special offers: $89.95 Windows XP Pro + Office XP Pro $129.95 Photoshop 7 + Premiere 7 + Illustrator 10 $109.95 Dreamweaver MX 2004 + Flash MX 2004 All main products from Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, Corel, etc. And lots more... Visit us at: http://www.soft-sky.org Sincerely, Jennifer A. Clark ________________________________ To change your mail details, go here ________________________________ ------=_NextPart_001_0001_A924B4F4.90212AA7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Access all the software you ever imagined for less!
We sell software 2-6 times cheaper than retail price.

Just a few examples:
$79.95 Windows XP Professional (Including: Service Pack 2)
$89.95 Microsoft Office 2003 Professional / $79.95 Office XP Professional
$99.95 Adobe Photoshop 8.0/CS (Including: ImageReady CS)
$69.95 Dreamweaver MX 2004 / Flash MX 2004 / Fireworks MX
$149.95 Adobe Creative Suite Premium (5 CD)
$79.95 Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Professional
$69.95 MS Project 2003 Professional

Special offers:
$89.95 Windows XP Pro + Office XP Pro
$129.95 Photoshop 7 + Premiere 7 + Illustrator 10
$109.95 Dreamweaver MX 2004 + Flash MX 2004

All main products from Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, Corel, etc.
And lots more... Visit us at:

http://www.soft-sky.org

Sincerely,
Jennifer A. Clark


________________________________
To change your mail details, go here
________________________________

------=_NextPart_001_0001_A924B4F4.90212AA7-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_3EE40D91.3FD8CB15-- From fqzvcrsxia@admin.fsu.edu Tue Oct 25 02:27:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUIHF-0006pn-3e; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:27:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA23670; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200510250627.CAA23670@ietf.org> Received: from user-0c90k3m.cable.mindspring.com ([24.144.80.118]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUIU6-0007hj-BA; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:40:37 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by 24.144.80.118 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:22:44 -0400 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Reply-To: "Mcginnis W Frances" From: "Mcginnis W Frances" To: "Rddp-web-archive" Subject: BA for sale Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:24:44 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Identity-Key: 3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--80F071523F1C885" X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 ----80F071523F1C885 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maximize your employability today! http://www.rewardexperience.info give yourself the status of "deleted" by going here : www.ReWaRdExPeRiEnCe= InFo All love shifts and changes. I don't know if you can be wholeheartedly in = love all the time.=20 ----80F071523F1C885-- From ldzwak@fuw.edu.pl Tue Oct 25 02:27:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUIHd-0006vh-Ev; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:27:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA23689; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUIUW-0007ir-1N; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:41:01 -0400 Received: from [204.85.66.40] (helo=204-85-66-40.wc.rl-nc.ntc-com.net) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EUIHc-0005ok-BR; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:27:40 -0400 X-Message-Info: 7R5BCLZJclrx6D3OR2pOILrjU6pbAO8oYYepwRH0DKX3 Received: (from bosom@204.85.66.40) by tornado0.48.236.139.2 (4.C8.0/B.9C.5) id iiBF0WOuKF796; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:22:22 -0700 Message-ID: <53005C2CC5.C29EA@ldzwak@fuw.edu.pl> Reply-To: "Gale Rubio" From: "Gale Rubio" To: "Rpsec-admin" Subject: NEW HEALTHCARE MARKETING PRODUCT, Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:23:22 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--1CD920E004A171A375A" X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ----1CD920E004A171A375A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-624B-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 2006 American MEDICAL Email Directory is the only email Directory absolute best resource. A "Who's Who" of the hospital universe, this database is the most Comprehensive on the market today. Our 2006 COMPLETE US Physician Database contains: FOR ONLY $249.00 (reg. 2,595.00) 700,600 Active Physicians with City, State, Zip 500,265 mailing address and phone/fax Database: 380,150 phone/fax Database: 176,000 E-mail Addresses 7,125 Hospitals Each record is indexed by such features as name, address, phone and fax and, for the first time, emails.. The database is available in Excel format on CD Rom. It is designed for mailing lists and merges. The data can be selected by state or other criteria. During this special offer, it can be used on an unlimited basis. TO ORDER YOURS Fill out the Form below and fax it back to 1-(206) 202-8049 Due to the high volume, this number may be busy: ( If so please fax your order form to 1-(206) 338-3863) ORDER FORM (Please PRINT clearly) NAME: TITLE: 0RGANIZATI0N: ADDRESS: CITY: P0STAL: TEL: FAX: E-MAIL: ----1CD920E004A171A375A-- From iser@permanent-daylight.net Tue Oct 25 08:19:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUNlw-0004pG-Vh for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:19:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12745 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bgl93-2-82-227-160-144.fbx.proxad.net ([82.227.160.144] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUNyt-0000gQ-Dx for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:32:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5d95d$72bb7180$0100007f@localhost> From: "Charles Hill" To: Subject: Buy OEM Software Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:19:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D95D.72BB7180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D95D.72BB7180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 35 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 38 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 31 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D95D.72BB7180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
    Microsoft
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 44 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: ! $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 38 reviews)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 45 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D95D.72BB7180-- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 09:45:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUP7i-0005tv-9H for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:45:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17805 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUPKW-000362-VA for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:59:18 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PDbshm006902 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PDbsIc019347 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:54 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nohope.patoche.org ([62.160.23.78]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PDbrfI001976 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nohope.patoche.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j9PDbr2m028496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:53 +0200 Received: (from patrick@localhost) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9PDbqFk028494; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:53 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:52 +0200 From: Patrick Mevzek To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] Open source EPP implementation, with EURid EPP extensions Message-ID: <20051025133752.GA26116@nohope.patoche.org> References: <20050813005843.GA16775@nohope.patoche.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050813005843.GA16775@nohope.patoche.org> X-PGP-KeyID: A241FB6B X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9DA9 5054 7A5D 03FC A9AD 9AFF 1371 9F06 A241 FB6B X-Request-PGP: http://www.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xA241FB6B Organization: Dot And Co User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Hello, As a quick note related to recent threads, a new release of my open source RRP/EPP/whatever client is available, with all EURid EPP extensions. It makes it possible to connect simultanously to various EPP registries, each with its given set of restrictions/extensions/policies, and still maintain some consistency. I hope it can be a proof that, even if multiple EPP extensions exist for the same thing, it is possible to hide all differences in a library, and let registration software have an uniform API. This shows that EPP is far from a failure as some try to depict it, and registries currently unwilling to even consider it, will just need to adapt themselves the hard way in a few years. This does not mean that everyone must/should use EPP, just that if they are problems, they can be discussed here, and solutions can be find to enhance the protocol and make sure it accomodates all cases. I hence put running code on the table, in hope it can be hopefull and will not post here anymore about this software. If interested : http://www.dotandco.com/services/software/Net-DRI/index.en -- Patrick Mevzek Dot and Co From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 12:56:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUS5w-0003P1-9z for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:56:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04889 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUSIq-0002Jn-Kh for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:09:41 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PGnalr010239 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:36 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PGnaio017478 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:36 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PGnZAB017240 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9PGnfs25844; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:41 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:50 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PGnZAB000507 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9PGnalr010239 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I just browsed through Scott Hollenbeck's secdns EPP extension draft. Whi= le it=20 is just another example of an EPP "community driven" standard, being in t= he 8th=20 round already, but mentioned in this list only once yet, and while I stil= l have=20 some general concerns regarding the involvement of the registrar and the=20 consequences to the actual security of DNSSEC, I don't want to examine th= is (at=20 least now), but I do have some concrete questions regarding the latest (0= 8) draft: * The draft allows the specification of a value called "maxSigLife". This= shall allow the registrar to specify the maximum lifetime of the signature o= f the DS record. However, to my (surely incomplete) understanding of the DNSSEC standard, the lifetime of an RRSIG signature depends _solely_ on the i= ntended lifetime of the related signing key, i.e. in this case the ZSK of the registry, which depends on the key length and the rollover strategy ch= osen by the registry and not on the content the RRSIG signs (i.e. the DS recor= d in this case). If at all, it would IMHO make much more sense to allow the specification of the TTL for the DS record (but this is impossible als= o). So to me, this value does not make any sense. Any counter-arguments? related to the above: ** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? ** what should the registry do if multiple DS records with different maxSigLife values exist? * What is the purpose of the "urgent" value? I see no reason why the regi= stry would not include the new DS record in the very next zone update anywa= y. We don't have an "urgent" for NS records neither :-) * I do not see any sense in specifying both the contents of the DS record _and_ the related DNSKEY record at the same time. The DS record can be calculated from the DNSKEY (of course), and a registry would have t= o calculate it anyway in order to verify the equality of both parameters. To me, it would make more sense to have them as alternatives than of having both types at the same time. If a registry policy ever wants to check certain key properties (algorithm, key length), then a registry can make the specification of the DNSKEY (instead of the DS) mandatory. * Using the 16 Bit key tag of the key to identify the DS/DNSKEY that should be removed from the domain is a bit risky having the probabilit= y in mind that more than one key has exactly this tag. DNSSEC never reli= es on the uniqueness of this tag. Just my two cents. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 13:42:39 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUSop-0005Ai-8Z for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:42:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08084 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUT1m-0003ru-Oo for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:56:05 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHYlTA005432 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PHYlHN011785 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:47 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHYiW9008458 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.139]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHmPOp008470; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:48:25 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:34:41 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:35:00 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZiKye8z6NN34xTkGp3jwIvLdMrQAAKWEg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2005 17:34:41.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[61C40E00:01C5D98A] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PHYkW9008600 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9PHYlTA005432 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Klaus, You should really read the mailing list archives of the dnsop working gro= up. Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the course o= f several months before the document was approved by the IESG. -Scott- > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se=20 > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:50 PM > To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I just browsed through Scott Hollenbeck's secdns EPP=20 > extension draft. While it=20 > is just another example of an EPP "community driven"=20 > standard, being in the 8th=20 > round already, but mentioned in this list only once yet, and=20 > while I still have=20 > some general concerns regarding the involvement of the=20 > registrar and the=20 > consequences to the actual security of DNSSEC, I don't want=20 > to examine this (at=20 > least now), but I do have some concrete questions regarding=20 > the latest (08) draft: >=20 > * The draft allows the specification of a value called=20 > "maxSigLife". This shall > allow the registrar to specify the maximum lifetime of the=20 > signature of the DS > record. However, to my (surely incomplete) understanding=20 > of the DNSSEC > standard, the lifetime of an RRSIG signature depends=20 > _solely_ on the intended > lifetime of the related signing key, i.e. in this case the=20 > ZSK of the > registry, which depends on the key length and the rollover=20 > strategy chosen by > the registry and not on the content the RRSIG signs (i.e.=20 > the DS record in > this case). If at all, it would IMHO make much more sense=20 > to allow the > specification of the TTL for the DS record (but this is=20 > impossible also). > So to me, this value does not make any sense. Any=20 > counter-arguments? >=20 > related to the above: >=20 > ** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? >=20 > ** what should the registry do if multiple DS records with different > maxSigLife values exist? >=20 > * What is the purpose of the "urgent" value? I see no reason=20 > why the registry > would not include the new DS record in the very next zone=20 > update anyway. > We don't have an "urgent" for NS records neither :-) >=20 > * I do not see any sense in specifying both the contents of=20 > the DS record > _and_ the related DNSKEY record at the same time. The DS record can > be calculated from the DNSKEY (of course), and a registry=20 > would have to > calculate it anyway in order to verify the equality of=20 > both parameters. > To me, it would make more sense to have them as=20 > alternatives than of > having both types at the same time. If a registry policy=20 > ever wants to > check certain key properties (algorithm, key length), then=20 > a registry > can make the specification of the DNSKEY (instead of the=20 > DS) mandatory. >=20 > * Using the 16 Bit key tag of the key to identify the DS/DNSKEY that > should be removed from the domain is a bit risky having=20 > the probability > in mind that more than one key has exactly this tag.=20 > DNSSEC never relies > on the uniqueness of this tag. >=20 > Just my two cents. >=20 > regards, >=20 > Klaus >=20 >=20 > ______________________________________________________________ > _____________ > | | > | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH > ------- Technologiepark > Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 > Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund > Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 13:45:28 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUSrY-000665-J5 for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:45:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08323 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUT4U-0003yU-B5 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:58:51 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHdAl3009532 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:39:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PHdA56006933 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:39:10 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHd8o5012485 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:39:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHcqQJ031864; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:38:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> References: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:38:59 -0700 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 At 18:49 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Hi all, > >I just browsed through Scott Hollenbeck's secdns EPP extension draft. While it It's not "just" a draft, it's in the RFC Editor Queue. But it is never too late to ask questions. >* The draft allows the specification of a value called "maxSigLife". >This shall > allow the registrar to specify the maximum lifetime of the signature of the > DS > record. However, to my (surely incomplete) understanding of the DNSSEC > standard, the lifetime of an RRSIG signature depends _solely_ on >the intended > lifetime of the related signing key, i.e. in this case the ZSK of the > registry, which depends on the key length and the rollover >strategy chosen by > the registry and not on the content the RRSIG signs (i.e. the DS record in > this case). If at all, it would IMHO make much more sense to allow the > specification of the TTL for the DS record (but this is impossible also). > So to me, this value does not make any sense. Any counter-arguments? The discussion of this happened in a DNSOP meeting in March of this year. The lifetime of a signature is a parameter that: 1) For the benefit of the registry be lengthened to reduce the amount of work needed. 2) For the benefit of the registrant by shortened to limit the time in which a cryptographic accident causes damage. Because of the contradicting goals, we figured the parameter is needed in the protocol. To explain #2. Imagine a registrant creates a key and the (DS data representing the) key is sent to the registry. If the registrant's private key is then "stolen/guessed/exposed", the party that has gained illegitimate access to the key can abuse the key as long as the DS record is seen as valid. So, shortening the DS record means the window of vulnerability is lessened. The TTL record value was also considered, but the DNSSEC specs (RFC 4034, etc.) already specify the TTL value. >related to the above: > >** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? The lifetime is relative. If there is no change, just regenerate the signature over the DS record. When to regenerate a signature is a deeper topic - some suggest regenerating signatures about 1/2 way through the lifetime just to be sure the signatures get out there in time. But never sign the DS set for more time than the prudent/agreed upon lifetime duration. >** what should the registry do if multiple DS records with different > maxSigLife values exist? Your call. If you are nice to the registrant, pick the minimum. If you want to lessen your CPU pick the maximum. ;) I think this isn't so much an interoperability or protocol issue, but a business decision. >* What is the purpose of the "urgent" value? I see no reason why the registry > would not include the new DS record in the very next zone update anyway. > We don't have an "urgent" for NS records neither :-) Hmmm, I forget. >* I do not see any sense in specifying both the contents of the DS record > _and_ the related DNSKEY record at the same time. The DS record can > be calculated from the DNSKEY (of course), and a registry would have to > calculate it anyway in order to verify the equality of both parameters. > To me, it would make more sense to have them as alternatives than of > having both types at the same time. If a registry policy ever wants to > check certain key properties (algorithm, key length), then a registry > can make the specification of the DNSKEY (instead of the DS) mandatory. Not many do. Although I feel that the DS data is all you want to transfer, the protocol schema is written to be more flexible for those who disagree with my view. ;) I say that with some sarcasm, there are some folks that feel that only the DS record is needed, but some others want to have the option to send the key data. Not all registries will have the same business thoughts. >* Using the 16 Bit key tag of the key to identify the DS/DNSKEY that > should be removed from the domain is a bit risky having the probability > in mind that more than one key has exactly this tag. DNSSEC never relies > on the uniqueness of this tag. It kind of does. Some tools will trash a new key that matched existing keys (in tag). But the question remains, I would need to think about it more. Either way you go (delete all, refuse to accept the key at all), something workable will be found. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 14:53:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUTv3-0000tY-9z for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:53:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12326 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUU82-00062z-3H for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:06:35 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PIjWrj005500 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PIjW3F003487 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:32 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PIjVgc026410 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9PIjXs22573; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:33 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435E7D3A.10200@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:14 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9PIjWrj005500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > Klaus, >=20 > You should really read the mailing list archives of the dnsop working g= roup. > Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the course of > several months before the document was approved by the IESG. >=20 > -Scott- >=20 Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 15:09:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUUBF-0006rl-Ev for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:09:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13225 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUUOD-0006WQ-A7 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:23:20 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ391r020038 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:03:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJ39EU003161 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:03:09 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ37Di012364 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:03:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ2pRW032221; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:02:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <435E7D3A.10200@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <435E7D3A.10200@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:02:54 -0700 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: "Hollenbeck, Scott" , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a At 20:45 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> Klaus, >> You should really read the mailing list archives of the dnsop working group. >> Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the course of >> several months before the document was approved by the IESG. >> -Scott- >> > > >Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. Somewhere, somehow, there was a request to get the DNS ops experts to review the extension because 1) the subject matter is DNS and 2) there weren't any EPP-base-protocol issues raised. OTOH, Klaus, I agree that it would be nice if the IETF processes were more forthcoming in a situation like this. I.e., all extension work on EPP ought to be at least publicized, well, somewhere. To the IETF, the PROVREG WG is over and done and this list is kind of in limbo. (It's not even provided by IETF machine resources.) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 15:09:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUUBG-0006u3-6D for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:09:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13228 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUUOD-0006WF-A3 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:23:21 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ2GJx022713 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJ2GI1008469 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:16 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ2GI1017268 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9PJ2Ls26332; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:21 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435E8129.5060603@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:01 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Lewis CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft References: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nic.cafax.se id j9PJ2GJx022713 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edward Lewis wrote: > At 18:49 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >=20 >=20 > To explain #2. Imagine a registrant creates a key and the (DS data=20 > representing the) key is sent to the registry. If the registrant's=20 > private key is then "stolen/guessed/exposed", the party that has gained= =20 > illegitimate access to the key can abuse the key as long as the DS=20 > record is seen as valid. So, shortening the DS record means the window= =20 > of vulnerability is lessened. >=20 > The TTL record value was also considered, but the DNSSEC specs (RFC=20 > 4034, etc.) already specify the TTL value. >=20 >> related to the above: >> >> ** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? >=20 >=20 > The lifetime is relative. If there is no change, just regenerate the=20 > signature over the DS record. When to regenerate a signature is a=20 > deeper topic - some suggest regenerating signatures about 1/2 way=20 > through the lifetime just to be sure the signatures get out there in=20 > time. But never sign the DS set for more time than the prudent/agreed=20 > upon lifetime duration. >=20 Thanks for the clarification. I thought the most simple solution to revok= e a=20 key is to remove it from the zone, as it would break the chain of trust a= lso.=20 But I have to admit that I am not yet fully aware of the effects of the v= arious=20 caching mechanisms on the time a resolver can falsely assume the correctn= ess of=20 a revoked key. I have to check that. regards, Klaus _________________________________________________________________________= __ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmei=DFer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 15:12:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUUDU-0000Ge-Gj for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:12:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13317 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUUQU-0006Zm-2D for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:25:39 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ64l6003145 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:06:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJ64t6019928 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:06:04 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ62iN003162 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:06:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ5hrF032236; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:05:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <435E8129.5060603@knipp.de> References: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> <435E8129.5060603@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:05:45 -0700 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: Edward Lewis , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 At 21:02 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Thanks for the clarification. I thought the most simple solution to revoke a >key is to remove it from the zone, as it would break the chain of trust also. >But I have to admit that I am not yet fully aware of the effects of >the various >caching mechanisms on the time a resolver can falsely assume the correctness >of a revoked key. I have to check that. One issue I omitted is that there is also the possibility of an illicit replay attack. Besides caches, if the attacker copies the DS set before the key compromise is known, the attacker can poison caches with the set as long as the signature is valid. So even pulling the (DS record of the) key from the parent zone isn't sufficient for revocation. Short of having an explicit revocation list in DNS (never happen), we have this problem. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 15:39:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUUe5-0003gq-Vr for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:39:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14914 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUUr1-0007PH-SV for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:53:08 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJW1KT007208 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:32:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJW13K010634 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:32:01 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJVxJI023638 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:32:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJjg4v013789; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:45:42 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:31:39 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:31:58 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C940@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZlEhI8woqWE94T2epdXFz7B+hZwAA/2+A From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2005 19:31:39.0714 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8B75220:01C5D99A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PJW1JI000243 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Malorny [mailto:Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de] > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:45 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft > > Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > > Klaus, > > > > You should really read the mailing list archives of the > dnsop working group. > > Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the > course of > > several months before the document was approved by the IESG. > > > > -Scott- > > > > > Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. It is, but your questions were about DNSSEC data and what a zone publisher does with that data. EPP just carries the data. -Scott- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 15:46:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUUkD-0005QM-SD for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:46:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15327 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUUxE-0007av-KA for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:59:29 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJfg9O007336 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJfgjX023353 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:42 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJffIb016579 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:41 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJtP4W014133; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:55:25 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:41:40 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:41:59 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C94B@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZlsH6meleDQknTuKqD9ziE/q0JwABA0Ow From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Edward Lewis" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2005 19:41:40.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[1ED24730:01C5D99C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PJfgIb008367 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Lewis [mailto:Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz] > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:03 PM > To: Klaus Malorny > Cc: Hollenbeck, Scott; ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft > > At 20:45 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: > >Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > >> Klaus, > >> You should really read the mailing list archives of the > dnsop working group. > >> Everything you're asking about was discussed there over > the course of > >> several months before the document was approved by the IESG. > >> -Scott- > >> > > > > > >Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. > > Somewhere, somehow, there was a request to get the DNS ops experts to > review the extension because 1) the subject matter is DNS and 2) > there weren't any EPP-base-protocol issues raised. > > OTOH, Klaus, I agree that it would be nice if the IETF processes were > more forthcoming in a situation like this. I.e., all extension work > on EPP ought to be at least publicized, well, somewhere. To the > IETF, the PROVREG WG is over and done and this list is kind of in > limbo. (It's not even provided by IETF machine resources.) Ed, both the dnssec document and the enum document (as another example) *were* described on the provreg list. The list has remained open partly so it could be used as a resource for continued discussion. DNSSEC: http://www.cafax.se/ietf-provreg/maillist/2002-03/msg00042.html Jaap had also been forwarding I-D announcements to the list. ENUM: http://www.cafax.se/ietf-provreg/maillist/2001-08/msg00106.html -Scott- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Tue Oct 25 17:33:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUWQR-0004c4-AV for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:33:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16083 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUWdQ-0002q5-FG for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:47:11 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PLR3Mc014975 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:27:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PLR32N029098 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:27:03 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PLQxIu025282 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:27:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PLQlXD033325; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:26:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C94B@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C94B@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:26:49 -0700 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" From: Edward Lewis Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: "Edward Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f At 15:41 -0400 10/25/05, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >Ed, both the dnssec document and the enum document (as another example) >*were* described on the provreg list. The list has remained open partly >so it could be used as a resource for continued discussion. True, the docs do get mention, but having to dig back 3 years through archives is a bit much. Especially when the digger isn't aware there is something to find there. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) From luk@wvhouse.com Tue Oct 25 17:58:19 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUWoF-0000Dq-UM for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:58:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17532 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [62.108.174.95] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUX1D-0003ca-Nn for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:11:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5d9ae$43812080$0100007f@localhost> From: "Brandon Harris" To: Subject: Buy OEM Software Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:58:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9AE.43812080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9AE.43812080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 36 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 32 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 33 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9AE.43812080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
    Microsoft
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 36 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: ! $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 32 reviews)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 48 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9AE.43812080-- From owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Wed Oct 26 11:07:58 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUmsf-0002gC-QH for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:07:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29476 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nic.cafax.se ([192.71.228.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUn5o-0006Dd-2Y for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:21:35 -0400 Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9QF0OCh025766 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:00:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9QF0Ojq004372 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:00:24 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9QF0Kun003645 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:00:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9QFECYe016732; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:14:13 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:00:19 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:00:40 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F86713@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZqtoIP7ofgoOtR/CLrsCwOZOE3gAkw8zQ From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Edward Lewis" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2005 15:00:19.0063 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB1AE070:01C5DA3D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9QF0Nun007817 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Lewis [mailto:Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz] > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:27 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: Edward Lewis; ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft > > At 15:41 -0400 10/25/05, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > > >Ed, both the dnssec document and the enum document (as > another example) > >*were* described on the provreg list. The list has remained > open partly > >so it could be used as a resource for continued discussion. > > True, the docs do get mention, but having to dig back 3 years through > archives is a bit much. Especially when the digger isn't aware there > is something to find there. I'd agree if those were the only times the documents were mentioned on this list. They're not. -Scott- From sawston@wauf.com Wed Oct 26 21:00:58 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUw8Y-0005w6-CH for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:00:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA11784 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [200.181.62.227] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUwLl-00012o-DT for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:14:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5da90$c67aa780$0100007f@localhost> From: "Sergio Young" To: Subject: Photoshop, Windows, Office Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:00:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA90.C67AA780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA90.C67AA780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 42 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 35 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 47 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA90.C67AA780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 ! Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
    Microsoft
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

!
Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 37 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 40 reviews)!

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 31 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA90.C67AA780-- From NorahJolly@capsaicin.net Thu Oct 27 11:26:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EV9eP-0004a0-FT for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:26:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16234 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EV9rl-0000pT-N6 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:40:35 -0400 Received: from [85.196.154.217] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EV9e0-0000oL-BO for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:26:25 -0400 Received: from mOf@localhost by qmh.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:58:16 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Linda Roe" Reply-To: "Linda Roe" To: shirley.bullock@ietf.org Cc: provreg-archive@ietf.org Subject: Huge $avings on ALL best-selling MS 2003 titles Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:59:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: NorahJolly@capsaicin.net Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--yZtOHyPU5frfVJri" X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a4cdc653ecdd96665f2aa1c1af034c9e 6fCm ----yZtOHyPU5frfVJri Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H
Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
= =
=
SEARCH

Microsoft Window= s XP Professional *w/SP2*
Microsoft

<= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

=
=  <= /tr>
<= p align=3Dcenter>  ON SALE NOW!

 = ;1 Windows XP Pro SP2
 = ;2 Creative Suite 2
 3 MS Office 2003 Pro
 4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
 <= /td>5 Macromedia Flash 8
 = 6 Dreamweaver 8
 7= Norton Sysworks 2005
 8 Adobe GoLive CS2
 9 Adobe Illustrator CS2
 = ;10 Borland Architect 2005
&= nbsp; See more by this manufacturer
   Microsoft
   Macromedia
  Ado= be
  Customers also b= ought
   these other items...

<= /p>

Choose:<= /b>
=  <= input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/s= earch-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DGo border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.di= splay-variation width=3D21 height=3D21>
<= /tr>
List Price:$299.00
Price:$49.99
Y= ou Save:$249.01 (80%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download= !
Coupon Code: N6ndZD
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #1
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date Coup= on Expires: December 31st, 2005
Avera= ge Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 16647 reviews. Write a review.

Adobe Creative Suite 2 *Pr= emium*
Adobe=

Choose:
 

List Price:$1199.00
Price:$149.99
You Save:$1049.01 (95%)



= Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: nGKN0
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #2<= br> System re= quirements  |  Other Versi= ons
Date Coupon Expires: December= 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:<= img height=3D12 alt=3D"5 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/= images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 bord= er=3D0> Based on 17169 reviews. Write a = review.

Microsoft Office 2003 *Professional= *
Microsoft<= /a>

Choose:=
 

<= /tr>
List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99
Y= ou Save:$429.01 (85%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download= !
Coupon Code: nMp4cg
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #3
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date Coup= on Expires: December 31st, 2005
Avera= ge Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 1752 reviews. Write a review.

=

Adobe Acroba= t Professional V 7.0
Adobe<= br>

<= td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap>
Choose:
 

<= a href=3Dhttp://oemgenius.com/?S>

List Price:<= /b>$499.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$429.01 (85%)



= Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: kOWKVE5
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #= 4
System = requirements  |  Other Ver= sions
Date Coupon Expires: Decemb= er 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 1557 reviews. Write a= review.

----yZtOHyPU5frfVJri-- From taramattiec@webvacancy.com Sat Oct 29 13:33:19 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVuZy-0001MS-Da for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:33:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12116 for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [201.29.197.105] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EVune-0000wN-I3 for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:47:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5dcae$53e71300$0100007f@localhost> From: "Austin Cook" To: Subject: Corel Draw Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:31:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DCAE.53E71300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DCAE.53E71300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 46 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 45 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 35 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DCAE.53E71300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES
Microsoft

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
   
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 41 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 45 review! s)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 40 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DCAE.53E71300-- From dbay@ebmud.com Mon Oct 31 07:44:39 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWZ1i-0006He-S8; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:44:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04340; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from 85-64-180-137.barak-online.net ([85.64.180.137]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWZFp-000072-UY; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:59:17 -0500 Received: (from tomcat@localhost) by 85.64.180.137 (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id j0CHmn8V273522 for proceedings@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:44:10 -0600 Message-ID: <644g730m.1095483@132.151.6.1> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:44:10 -0600 From: "Sterling Peterson" X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.463 (Entity 5.838) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: proceedings@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: (-2.458) BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 85.64.180.137 X-Scanned-By: SpamAssassin 3.212816, File::Scan 0.34, Archive::Zip 1.86 X-Recipient: Subject: Lowest rate approved Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_43151798==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_43151798==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
some grill some kansas and afghanistan in cruddy not extinct some modulate a calgary be felt and hacienda , wightman not wiggins some picosecond and overhang try insouciant Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_43151798==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="chutney.5.gif" Content-ID: <6.0.0.81.0.52848955344220.60411481@daedalus.msn.com.0> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chutney.5.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh5gHOALMAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZmZlmzGYzzDMz MzMAzAAAACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAADmAc4AAAT/EMhJq7046827/2AojmRpnmiqrmzrvnAsz3Rt 33iu73zv/8CgcEgsGo/IpHLJbDqf0Kh0Sq2CDo+sIvs4ZLaPCthKLpvP6BPWu95sLe+0fE6v T9ttTZyyt/v/gIE4eF0AWFyFEn2KYRMNiA2CkpOUlRiHXAd5homLAHsNkY6ilqWmp2iEmoiZ jHCNAKEUsqi1trdMqptisBOgpLHAuMPExTm6iZxen72uErTPwsbT1NVqXGBdmFle2VmMiM+Q s9LW5ufoO9Dp7O3u7/Dx8vP09fb3+Pn6+/z9/v8AAwocSLCgwYMI02DKtgzGug1apOyqMubC okflhmCcE5GFJz+q/0R8VPFAgYyHIUr+GYkBZRGXIFQWkakDZouJLEKGYImC5gubHXzS4WkB aBCjHIQGUWoDaQqcK0JuS/aKi7gHobBeBcbKJICuGaZ2Y8Ws5LerWtGSAvsVmwRMyw6BWebt bNEsWbU+4hIpYscL29hgy7SlYtlmwWaNy4DI61RtrBpWtbsXL1qtfmU2DjuYW92yoPdmzUjB Z9eFrSxaBWe4MqnKmLV0BCuWU+qbZresagjVmeJI0KCZLjyBqbIJWPq8GfMrg6zhEpRuOrR7 D09astY992q8gtRCzHt5Cg7Mack8a6ZTxRCHvPa+3L1+lc9Z8AHlYeKA0ks6uvzhOn0h3v83 zY1CTnQq5VaabsgV0ttTuUHGynp8IOaScBMS598l6+HHjG8PwQYfBtIlo4p1iB2Y2Hvzbcgh IoIVBl4jHlYQ3ISknZZIeiZSCM5q7pU3YosuanDigB8mmZgHNAEYoWSqVQhieTgW2ZaO3FDw IArJmbXbB+OVIxx9RRo3kYf6wcJiNERaUCJvDnaB4gahYCckkWbuGKeMY/mmpIFsBvWfAuhB BieUvrX3Wp0HajZoB1326Ut+NKrZXwVN0nfek24gqeSabmpKppZZHhdDpKam+sqnYq4laqYc wolmpQZmt2ibeJpEk3r2HWZXS4wuyWaCecalJ4NJ1qiisMwuWJz/SWLxGqUzQTaqK6zdccLg rKAFKuizzqLaqZSsrngnrsP1aN+WJYhbmx5niejIYmxl+GIrn2WTzbyv8fXcZsXJFG1nVBHF rLwIgjHqW43tOaNsBJIVy2IIkzgYfYTAKOBgsKVVMcT/ZctwQ5+xhtdijAHMlrjskaXvahP3 y9eVf9EWWYM+JtSCwU7Zwe4RP+ss9KQwt5QWJYFFQd3QTDft9NNQRy311FRXbfXVWGet9dZc d+31PQQvDIJhp5ZKxF8zbASRyECgjZDBQcAdU3wpyH0NokuJzYHd3pKo90x/q8A3k4E/MTgP h0NENwqJixC0Dmy3HIJRkedNQ+MaVC4D/2rGwvhypTB3DNzMCG7GlgWoPWyXN/OSnpKGA0uI NyOtkS6aaDR3V1tt+UJMJ70AF7n7zaz/GC/KFwSPpVk5+0rp8xNjpXbmmjaWuoT4Sly80dKn pbxbtt02Q5e6SRuen+QVNWSL0L345aTwA9o34SrxGmBVfwZqJ7piF6rerJRyjpDaRyReqetP +Ekf9ZwFLupAhVuf4o/iwPUsZMjKU3LbyENgNbIGzQ43fDIfYvqgQHlhy16xqlA40FclEQhM XffjBbUoJop/nc47enoM81xGK+dYpnTKc8yEuuAj/ODoVguk4IbYBcECfctKmwrhEO9TtPwJ EFNBxNnNaEA+Q/950IokvFX6sFW4LyYKFmFMwQsPFUNyvUGBwaBF5fzXoRSlqQMb6c4acYg3 ZcmPcqIKV/P8tJweNiuJ/Ovi+1SDxhRdYB0cbNPjQOglEa6qPeNQIFgIiLpkzMkVbzzX6zo4 Mh41745wrJMoOEkqY/0PSXcEFjkIuMeRHbCQCJSe/PzGwCUOMpcfas2legkdVL3SjQHUACQf taFNHYqLspmLWEpGtEfW0F/C0EzwcKgxX6FITcgzT0feJRezqXCH0ZMeEoGYp5vxjocQc2Q6 vaeyzQyvm91y3mWO5ibw5Y5QW2zZCssChopZDHwr8xLDNEbNfD4SZQ0LmRDxSYaeae7/axil h2vW5raMevSjIA2pSEdK0pKa9KQoTalKV8pSQEyypTCNqUxnStOaCg0uC53LxtCJsI1eSWHs LKNNh7q5HnlRch8Clbf8oiErEfWpNpDWg1BZpY+RyZ9QzWpUD7glGc1PWGOymFC1StZ2cXWQ Xj1YsITFyYuW9a0ciN0OP/innmLzdKebyJnkCde+lgBzfg2sEsgm2MIa9rCITaxiF8vYxjr2 sZCNrGQnK4EAFOCyBLhsAQYQhMwS4AKe/QMBPlsBy3K2spo9LQAEoFkBbIC1l3WtBAag2QBM gLaXte0GQisE3Or2tgX4bQh4uwPWypYCtP0tboM7gcwWgLRH//DtBZLrAtYSIADWFW4PBDDa C3AXuicwbhGcC17Lbha1BBAAazm7XgHQ9rgWaO97AfBe7jK3vpnVbgVGq94hBCC/pYUvfZlL ge5W4Ls8gG0B4CvdAasXwPxFcBDEW1kAW4C6LTAtADQsBANbwMPhXTARIuxh86pWALbVsHgp 7F0Ri5e6ML4vgTEA4t7OOAMYbi54dVzczbpXxLPNbZBtS10D13i7QB7ydG+8Aus+N8WavewA YKve2OI4yjKOcgB822AAgNi5mM2AeaM8gDFLebVRFvCBsfxjzNZ2ubklL3FBS9r+bvi55y3t eVec5Pi6WMQxJrKM9dtczUIXzE829P+ZMWDm0yrYyhrI8XKVq2UJgHnHJcayai3QaAk8us9r di12dUtbCwfay6Q9coENLWZFO5rNsHWubB8t21ILGbiERoFlM8vZXau3ygR475ZBDdxf2zez xs5vfv87Yw9HWMKcfu6vE53eaZeZtlPONZqnrN73IpvZP072go8N7fiSdwK7zjO6n4xm17LY z+4G9KAHLGhtf9fOz753rNebAWP72MfdJjZyZ4xdC28Y2cfV935J62tr99va7Q24miu73OPa mtTzNvKOD/xrVXsaz7yOeLhxO4D5DjvbQV6wwXPcguzeWbWm5fPE6Y3uH1N62PXmsaUPvXHU nta0Zk5tu1//m2TjBhrOtUW1u2fu6Qd/1tfqvvN1Px5vpsuc5qdm+YfB++WnsxvFjNb0sGM7 6kgzmeVaV7WBg77oaJN57AsuO6Ml7mAMn1rjGkB0z9GL5ykXfdybxS6Q3z1fSTN5BRzm8Muv vmTtGh7nNN+5zlEd9p8HXtrGtu27W5zwuHtW3sbG994XLvmgW37qVB86Bq6e9XlnoOsF9vqm L9BwfmO3zUxX8sCFm/aerx3zvyZ07c97e9xa/c+uRXrOi5zq0T/b41LvO4uNy3jCuz7yLki8 umMOeIFj/+K4Tm6Xnc3zfot9+3sG/MynL28AP57yHLCvtJvu8l0Ll/GcH3rrc/56/677/+Ub oH1+J2rhZnaOd2PiR2DdBXsA6HO0l2fcR4DzRXvLVWYb9mBAdnfN13+TF22fN4ATQH3IR3Uv dn3YBQNj9mpRdl1jJ2u0h2iex2YH52bBpXerBYOj52/shWVTN3YWSIFiN4OyxWxpZoOvxV8U kIJ3RmYbVoG/xWJwZ4FECGRTmHuX5ml692mzt2aKFmxBuGSVpnwVBmk3OH9etoJotoK59mie hXQ/CIRvOGBCVoVYiFlWd2mqZl6f91xuqGBgJmokB3dghnHaFl7q9YSZV1mHeIhzZ2yK6IiP eHurFXr0B4kawGGh91u3V4i3F3w1l4SUGHq5F4Jq5omTaP+KnfiEgQeKjPiI8NWJr2WJoniK rfhwixgAnViLnEaJF2iJvchxCceLmagBmYdiuQh2l4iMNWdnvQhfvuhdswiNo3aIx4iLwYeK jJiKv/aJ52BmqIcKckdZWpOI4liO5niO6JiO6riO7NiO7viO9/AYdAUONfAXL6VMrDBMWDRW P/FDB9VRLtAzVgCQxDA9ThUCS4MbrrQ3fMUC2XKPf6SPvVQTNdQfjpI2wiCQHrBXN+BWK6CR PQCSHwCRcZVDDGkDD/lLV/RVEwQEQBFJP5GREjmSddSR/MgCIqkOM4mQKuk4OZQ0+uRDM3M7 9IRQ9nQbQAkC6eNTIAMuWpA6qyD/O3UBOlZBlPx0SMQEUBrzTuGgML/yUP6YPNG0UKUClNvz GUS5k70kVwzBSMyjFq1zNPWyTdyUJZ9jPHzlUz8VMDukla3wLlVRO65DKhSlDJ9kTSqiQY/w KsykKiQ5T9IgRwlCN7vCDTzSKyjiIfuzLLzkH+rSIwBkRTaijxFCJv4jQ/EzQ8Chli5iP3FC V+ezLMu0IKwEGJ0QMX6kPskTSPNhQAspUEklSmZkSoTRSCupm3wZUUq0C4+5lPSyOApiRh3U BpmZIpvJkpgyKJ85IVT0K7F0nNSjIORUk0QjMTnJQK7JJ/BiIygDSfaCVbbZTUYkMbIUKlhU P1NkkkgV/0qcSUprkEOHiZwCiitlIh/M2ZOIGQ2aBJ1oc6CY2UgjoUqjmRTaeSindBbfWZ+K kxunqSrAlKAlUEvKoEjrGZG7lC0E2aG5SSflIBRuoVf6OS38uUv+SUSuFKATCiiz+SyR5KD3 WC2BcpHsY6BUYUqSwgw1IqEuFB++2SBN1JC2Ep6F0aGXCUrJRC2smZ2kdBwsg1TespTrMx+1 aSp54EfX0aK86UweFKOrEpz9KY/h4yVTKZSW8TH1ZD0BlZB+Apa2c1fxBFRtURdwwjzduRoN hRKUAzD3lD1dSTC/Y5ERsimD0TmSYRhoiTxYeZ8RMZ7I4paUgU38kpzaBJ+EGf9N9NlQd+GP m/Sniyo+5bkvBrUSDRk3s9qf+nCe8FgH+8IBBpmrvvqrwBqswjqsxFqsxnqsyJqsT6WnJABY yjo0nuCskIKgHyGtz5oQ0Vqrd+MB1aqt1woQnEOWtwkz2yMvaZkyfdklepIa27On35oQJNpK 7ppGOipBnYmfR2VG3fquTEOi75KtipGP2Jmd4vmacXqb08KvOqNIKjpCvQAT5iEj0PKaDZuw CosQDKufuGSlajWwBCtE66KxV3qxQ1NO0tQwdPGVglmnmLqb+DpX24AshGWtJFuzNnuzOJuz OruzPNuzPvuzQBu0Qju0RFu0Rnu0SJu0Sru0TNu0Tvv/tFAbtVI7tVRbtVZ7tVibtVq7tVzb tV67WAbgAGLrAAsQtmN7tmgrtgmQAQsgtgagAW2btmnLAADAAHNrt2hLtx6QAGrLt2oLAH7r AGsLt2f7tgAQtw7wtnZLt3jLuGfruA7AAHibtgsAAGaLtpXrt4MbuGebAJwruBKAuG8btwYg uhnQuBLQuKh7uZV7uY8rt5V7AZ+bAKRruhZAuofrtpMbuXXLu7srtpP7u8ALu7M7AXw7uP8Q tgzguXy7AHy7vJ47tgvQttMLuhhgAHZruNdrt8zLvZLbvQyAAN/ruZIrvtCbAJL7AaUruOtb ts1Lu9Z7AW3bvYk7v+ibuOYL/wDma77Mi77hW777G73L+7bK+7zNa7nzKwHNS73zawDw67yj K7j3awDYm7gVjLwWML7pu7/7W8DNW8CR+74hHL2xawEOTL0JQMHZe8Hbm7i5u7YI4L8JgAD6 u8Hl+7wOHLkgvLxka8DRK7bO67kJDLjx2w/Kq70pHLYlnMJMzL4pTLjaiwFta7gOXLd6a8VY LAEIQMPpq8U0/AGae7wfjMBFPAFDbLnwO7gVXMGM28YUsMVZ3MVKTAFJTLaAa7jHKwEOnMNM jMfWO8RrXLsufAHlq8Xp28WSe8QK3MMUbMd1vMRRbAF5HLpuO8VsO7yDnMWp67t0O8dz/Mh3 PMcKPP/JaOzHGMwPokwBSpzKRHzK8hu5mfzK62u4XYzFh3zFtywCYSzB8UvKFGDJv5zJU7y4 tnzFFIDIesvKemzHxgvLGOzLrUzJ2jvFghzJE1DLxZy6DJDKoszNZKvMshu/1XzJsJzJ2EzM 6evJzGy567zKjlzGzezK+gDOrlvC0bwBbZu9hDu2tPy4XDy2uAzQugzL3EvK0CzNFQDMuYu9 ktvQNfy42hzR7GzPy2zPz1vE0DzJCk3NBB3Lx2zMuWzF3hy73iy9HEDK+QzL1mzGHa2959zQ 6WzHIz0B9UzGnRvPAKHOQAzCFg3PCc2++izFghvU31vIVuy/17y82Ly3ghv/t9GLvAe90D89 zYlbvsSsv/0b0nK8zjS9zh98xhn9x8Jcvw4gvm6LAS8dx9vczszszTxM0eGMvG1r1h4dzItr ziD9v7yrziXs1geMxsw7xFGdD6JMwp8cxYPN0oV7yRSMvCGNxXAc0ZENAmLct73s0wqN0NJ8 yLybwW6cxfTs1WgL1WWs0WM9y7hLyHmt1jM90V2duStdAShN1nXN0jGs0GlNzHz92rz9xJJs vYmND3/tziTNzMH9whPM2BVgw3pby4+91BtwvOubwgk8xiYc1MPswgnM3JqczaAt020t2s4L 1qVtvWv8wgt93heQv1bMxc1NtwesyK5d0fSdAbOt/8K1jdC4vdr5u9v1Pd+XS9pq7NsAwblr TblE/LdCjcm1jbiDjLqLK7ySO7f/Hc6Wvbbru9MZUMFji+GTu7YQTrd0Dbw0TNfh67omzboJ Xs6gG7ibO9qW++G5W8n5/dCR+8Um/sWBu83LDMTsjOAW3uGim9nBzOAcDry9y8mLDLxUnOJy ywAO/s2LLM/80L9v27/MS8BZvuFZzrzX278TEMMzjNVbjOUzLOb9S8Py/eWe29hUvOUa4MBe rsdzLuYljuNpHuaeq+NmjsdtDthM/Ody7tuD/ueATueei8YbEOGdbed0bOij7NtmTuAVUOhJ 7OVVzOaBDsN57uiTDeeR7v/nWN7YVk7TlL5Ypz4QMVzmX/y1rs40MB3rsj7rtF7rtn7ruJ7r ur7rvN7rvv7rwB7swj7sxF7sxm7rcP3qyr7szN7szv7s0B7t0j7t1F7t1n7t2J7t2r7t3N7t 3v7t4B7u4j7u5F7u5n7u6A60cNqPLesChJXuSsOmHQA3cBQDNAvvO9ChYFKr9Q4D947vx/CT xKM9A6WhNjQbyxMnEDMWK4SqAG8EA3NByIRH45AujVmjkDEnK/rwQ0BH3LmrqalMq8lOY+lL 3bQJnwTyHI8EdPRBlsrvI0+gbaKmZOpJxqlCK8/yOQSaGDSyyLkdzqIjv4nyxrnxOe8DcMqV RfPV7gE7On1Bly0Ss0QknxMSlB579LfgkUqZpVgfCFDf9WAf9mI/9mRf9mZ/9u+YlP14KQSJ 9mbwmFtPoSbw726fEwhqAkih9SFf9x2/royKob7DopJ5LdxxlDAClb7C90QQILuQJj6vPmGV Kzz6TA40aXNgBBkTGSWToT+/StvqJjzpoXR/+SPwHVCS8obEp975jUHvm6fvraQPA6bvpDfP +TkqR4RfoGfkiGVZ+zWAU+KqOpGKTmCZlhkGPFM5sYcfUA7l+8oSkGAf/dI//dRf/dZPUhEA ADs= --------------AttPart_43151798==.OLA-- From thomas@yahoo.com Mon Oct 31 11:24:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWcSn-00062u-6B for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:24:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18519 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [200.6.231.145] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWcgz-0005JN-DC for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:39:30 -0500 Date: lun, 31 oct 2005 17:24:39 +0100 From: "Abrahams" To: Subject: Welcome to International Legal RX! Message-ID: <001001c5dd93$bc191aa0$0200a8c0@noop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suffering from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help you! Great choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20 Vlaggra as low as $3.84=20 ClaIis as low as $5.67=20 Xanaks as low as $2.47=20 VaIium as low as $3.41=20 Traumaddol as low as $3.30 UItram as low as $3.33=20 Soomma as low as $0.88=20 Meridida as low as $2.48=20 Our phartmacy is LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Suffering=20 from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help=20 you!
Great=20 choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20
 
Vlaggra=20 as low as $3.84 =
ClaIis=20 as low as $5.67 =
Xanaks=20 as low as $2.47 =
VaIium=20 as low as $3.41 =
Traumaddol=20 as low as=20 $3.30    
UItram=20 as low as $3.33 =
Soomma=20 as low as $0.88 =
Meridida=20 as low as $2.48 =
 
Our = phartmacy is=20 LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!
 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360-- From william@yahoo.com Mon Oct 31 11:26:31 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWcUR-0006YC-7c for provreg-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:26:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18613 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from host203.201-252-91.telecom.net.ar ([201.252.91.203] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWcid-0005Qi-AL for provreg-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:41:12 -0500 Date: Lun, 31 Oct 2005 13:26:23 +0100 From: "Hellman" To: Subject: Welcome to International Legal RX! Message-ID: <001001c5dd93$bc191aa0$0200a8c0@noop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suffering from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help you! Great choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20 Vlaggra as low as $3.84=20 ClaIis as low as $5.67=20 Xanaks as low as $2.47=20 VaIium as low as $3.41=20 Traumaddol as low as $3.30 UItram as low as $3.33=20 Soomma as low as $0.88=20 Meridida as low as $2.48=20 Our phartmacy is LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Suffering=20 from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help=20 you!
Great=20 choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20
 
Vlaggra=20 as low as $3.84 =
ClaIis=20 as low as $5.67 =
Xanaks=20 as low as $2.47 =
VaIium=20 as low as $3.41 =
Traumaddol=20 as low as=20 $3.30    
UItram=20 as low as $3.33 =
Soomma=20 as low as $0.88 =
Meridida=20 as low as $2.48 =
 
Our = phartmacy is=20 LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!
 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360-- From ladyhawk@esper.com Mon Oct 31 17:10:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWhr5-0000Bp-NI; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:10:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15202; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:09:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWi5K-0003fr-9m; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:24:59 -0500 Received: from static-70-19-113-66.ny325.east.verizon.net ([70.19.113.66]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EWhqt-0007lJ-Sr; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:10:05 -0500 Received: by 10.11.98.4 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:13:13 -0600 Message-ID: <013d568v.8998628@msn.com> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:13:13 -0600 From: "Eddie Jeffries" User-Agent: Apple Mail (2.728) X-PGP-Key: yIgb8mx2fsUczJYtq5i0As6RZpW2ntdMtvsM6XJdzACom5lkPlG1rOXOivXP7ybE== X-Load: 46% MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ppm-archive@ietf.org Subject: Pre-approved Application #47231 Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:13:13 -0600 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_25068557==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d890c9ddd0b0a61e8c597ad30c1c2176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_25068557==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
not carbon the daub in buteo ! picnicker ! paulus in capitol ! thirsty a diocesan in distort it's ado on adamant but buzzy , bustard and beret Or maybe not

--------------AttPart_25068557==.OLA Content-Type: image/gif; name="aruba.3.gif" Content-ID: <9.0.0.28.0.83511474055853.18236930@cent.hotmail.com.8> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="aruba.3.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh5gHOAMQAAP/////MzP+Zmf9mZv8zZv8zM/8AM/8AAMzM/8zMzMyZ/5mZ/5mZzJmZ mZlmzGZmzGZmZmYzzDMzMzMAzAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAADmAc4AAAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrfIalKw2K9FCINkEaVuCSMpeVPc8SmjZIrBXDMButxI5BdLWSxoidncUVoWG h4iJQglgeV8Uf10UDQ2SdHVrJWEklZCAJ3ZwAHKfbnuPWYBYX41fEpGpgVmsWgmMkLSiiru8 vb67kCOUAG6fAFwkbpejsyXFKqGchCKvy3KMfMSTwtqlwSRdn3sj37/m5+jpRuVt29TIIspj cs7uKWmysstxew10z8ncgTnxR8S4QMbUKVzIsCGLb2DEAGTWiNylgeECJjyxJ2Odaa9QsJsY z93BEv4M/2Yb6LCly5fpBpU0hvEghUvjsIgiyRFCgoxYqOka0UVjPXHZ7t0RNhSm06dQl+Ci 120Ey4w3+d0xxtPEOFMJggIoSnCnvZkGm45xRHZs1qhw48r98a1BtoksTWGhM9VMua6astkR C2ajSqOI23LKdtBuG8NzI0uevIId2nfCajHjuqmqipN6ZL21epYnwIrJCh5L6kYt5dewJ1v+ yObnNNG2sqBhg4WmhGU6wel+d9B2UlnHaRP1JFoc7y58KsWeTj3uFmOCbl4nbapz90mD2GUX TkIPPtLNRG+yvdVgeDFd9lWfT18dK599WI1iZW3/l/L83ffFRtj895gJ94HCCv9XCeYHQUIC fvEPZPVVaOGFGGao4YYcdujhhyCGKOKIJJZo4okopqjiiiy26OKLMOKgWokGplBjEj9RWMhP 8sUYRXd2caGFe67pEAuNJxGUJBJHKgKWjzvWddNeJfXowoyf6biEdL7caNVKyTGpZRXy3IAl lDlQOZYrwoQJw5lqjJkEl714GQeYTcB5SJk26IlmDW4IBsklv60QloxyxnAoDG7W2eiXeSaq wqM+8CkEpTJg2iFLx8DBCAt+vinpC6GCUqQidpahaRClsuDGEZYC8aoOdJZ42m2FsreRIGfo lFWhH5Ujh0epxcIesD8Nq16vXPwjiT9bhFVbHvAwM07/UnagQokkK21jigndhZUKMoOZ8axV nxhoG7DCfbNuWIAMa1i41PhVnCSFFqYNSFoYU8uQggDy7WayxBcQHQG79Ucs1VJDh7lHSjKJ rgXfRDF7uWlWYkhuCcxGQTyWoJoko3QiBpf/mXFZG4VWI9CUxuZBTSkfewxfr7wFMxgxMlOp r1VsmFGJRByrNusYd45yRo71Kn1yVj//F3KtdQj8Kx/fyvzRRtMYyHFht8LnTUngejuJGURH hysgJD94sNM8+7QNl5YanMlHZM/MM3slg/ybyj2f6mFvdg3k9ndnjYWdKFAvNdqZN9YK8m0q K95HLF7SSTflzIpReTts25XQ/69jI5iJPBxDnZQ7qv2X3WiBXLNaN0crbfo3M+Yheeh51w40 JsdcEtTRqlFdZfCZ7ffRyWG+NWNWsyKuSm1bhXKy4B5C8lsx1KswY62qa2IM5Mftrg1TeldV UOZwbI4+e4k7fcaNpOcjcnRBP5gHNkmn3zr+KagEILLCK20ITxeBS99+zFe8afhuJm6zx6uI 9wnjGfAYnDHgJH4DO4PQ4XkSceBt0Hc+Z9DDgiNaxTvGV6hhgANbjFOFt85Qja2hZG7ayVkI f7emQCwtJziUFgmPprIHaqIgKrQd3BRzQY6B5UnKM8gntFbEg7BLeb2JIlFyhSXUfYx6udHh EkXYo//gEKyHz0iiBZ/xM629Yn5LkmLT5FimGg6DTnasBLOAp6K31IpiN9wDveSgtkHxLBXQ CSQXm+WeiZFrFutSofX2xUHd9MsUlWxY8pblLE8MZzkL++Ico0GKUAjikFfc1yOC1K9DNgmU wYEEI12JrDXY4R2pxCB6QJMKMMitM8vZhh5YQ8AOWutByCCFwmxxLnpRDF8hNOSf6PM8w7hQ IWJRYhWwN81uVuEgEalHQ6iULCukypvo3BE0TaA1hgzTCrFKpzznSc962vOe+MynPvfJz376 858aEuAPyukEgf7AoEpalazaCVASjecYrZTBznpgCoUCYaI9wKjI7qaEijb/1ES3kJI0FUWs HdzCogMt6Q46ARnpoNQHvmwIQz96BDO2xgZZpMtLfZBTnsavh1CI4zkCBaWd9sComeBYDXra A6EigakscFsLoHqYoBr1BVKdQVZZkJIYGRFWI3yTLK30Aqoa6aor/SkKAAOKnzo1CW/FAVtd pdYQ6RGRTUpYHN4IP0o0q5DAetanCAmuV2wDX8SZ2LkMldc3eG44r6yYNNnDh35FA7FeMexJ MOuWcrwxslqZ1pFyqtdjdVY3pcVX4rLjE4mxEJg+5IIMf3UvjpLjLq7tLGIt28pnkiE1p+NW YgkxLPkwjRmcRY9mW3skysbDsMwaaRVkpy+fcbGy/8HYnghl+JuaKTE+XkuIHcLyIKvtUG8h W0FbdOIXnHUtftlCzSv8covthQM6MdXEKZqB33H0F7v77WBrMjJfoJgtD0VpDSlaAS0ET2MW fiFQK4xDiu78rCQBZmYxAWuwebxDWzrpBB8awd6iQCcYDJaG9m5S4MbpbhWoGcNhuRDhQPp1 gw5mm4PFteIBx/UJ7vMg8uw3o+gFkRjKrJzM7qCL2rHyvNKLKq7aJ8ztmiCnZIEYbcOIuLDO ThuZ/NdSUAPV79w4DVk0z9mg55NbXYe08SNqT4tSkY1wSs5v+Up1vaK28RGiKJJc83Uk9sN5 7VnLIZziHfZRXbIQFQ0DRP/mFkasWVvsedKHCDLyJAiSDCYWa4e1GiPrejSBQk+EMeDUX6q8 ssyki1+GfVqsFTwgPm+R1g/CNVJarZV+nKLWaf61T8IJOn7c5xYIizMQafJgN3FqdmoqjlqX TZqtWQLFwtZwGAAzkTUYDCB9CdOtbssR8Pj1PmzrsWeCNZspaLrKU8xGO+so3h8CsDy5Sk6Z XGe2D7YwXo9qSyI7RjCV2pAZYsiu89ITi2ySo4XjaDghJJ4WXhNOkIZUWaA/hkxmcVBQHNcJ fJQNaiR+o90i/4jaRuwuod60NdwlTidwyPFBxefR9VgdDU8t76+cadwVvzIyWuO5Myg8hHcZ lG7/6O1DJnSnsxR7J7tBCT/7elLS6SGsfs2233RbXSAUita+8PG6JXlBEF2ebWYi2g48qAeH rQyNcNeOObGngdDDzZhu8H7a8zQSjmLXg3wk1nImn5adQ1Jzsj0ezGC4/TsiGxJEr/Od74QJ XwFTFuJfrZlBzJwQlidYEju8kM/N9ILLa0KD7rTVwu2H0QMqEJKjg5+qJUNCJ3hQrfNzCWwg TD+FS0iBhFejBcVOvDVy/fEXA/Bd7b5w2NKPgrbqe9HVYfeLkSr0y5Au4Ggf+8rPfilch5/w Y1/8ww9+7kURfv7ZhbxSNX4guBGPUaEqZ/NiHTdpyv+l1lVDfYUCvEJW//1XgDbwSQaYgAZ4 TQrYgA74gBAYgRI4gRRYgRZ4geiQXuBgf06HVjhCehm1f3yUURyIKh7IIYLAGJpEBFBEDv8X BXpVHhfRMO9yAjX4XCN1gwiigVfQbgLogzYgL+ykYuy3gqonVKdHIrYBDiJoUsb0gkD2N76j JodzL4dUWFfIM1n4E1mIEiUYA5tDgCOoA69ACY5RHrfhGDd1fWA2BanSKiDyaFy4BPEEh07w B59SD8ZkILXHE30oTP8AiLw2FmKIA2G4AihUA1NiTZ9EZfCRGYVoBG/4hRmSRblkBHX4hYsy BBJyeWpSHuKAb5ogiiOkMqU4FMYUgrlXHiS0A/+TwIA8Ixbgoz8epnqQwk6UmCG+lItyZUx2 iItFgEnIN2Tg8FzSkBrSMIf6UIT1EIk4NRRHU2pNyFWzNDOzcoZ3go1apAR0kiq1xyIncSyy 9g7ygXa09FiidjzWYnCCxXJApEniuDPNsljmkkuaN4cd5EIOt48j1Bv9CB7HSHeEkFq2FSyL lI/Tklifty04CF+MhEnGtVhq2DXHYQY38jmiYY/QNXPCE1E/sU6Vp2U04YwgYjQvU3QWgRJL sz8naTklJA+V44cfcxPh5ZKIERFaowx+g0mECC5ywzZ8oY3Y0o/MyBT7uDCc0GRQc116oYxa aDmAkxzSMTDRmIbexYP/c1gQLNlSfsVMVcImX4KRN5KVG3E3NZRlTJkeHNONEPcwL1I8ooBE cNBBZ8FApSMPj2NnHDd5yAAnu8NG0LIdoTJYWHceXbVu2jgR72cPi4kd+pYVoyEWqRhSs5VK QVaV79Met1d30iUMoaNmr1iKfgWKJgRacGk/kflgydZ0/aNLMXKaRDE9KTkG9baBLikWeDk+ BOJYrhmbVxaX8bIHoOdlgzliyTEamxh0JXNE6NIpzSksu5lwnmZMz2A0VDFEqJY3wPNV6lNB +eWFvfmS9mAx47kM1WkYsDkrnCZkJdSNSfGLJJKTUvI06IgGN7OG1jVyaGFHq6ULaINkQBUQ /2KkF0JxMmzjJhODTPswGtgiQ/e2ljmRM/cmSdDYOPEmRyqpDXwQEg6XekYWiMl2n7aXmZVl nKkBL0qlnfrCh8IklfbGToIhRm3EGBU0De5JDlNEktkDD+IYTASKhobUo6h0S4L1LAP3dt3S GOnBMtX4ORRzSoHUmUNmHlQ2WX5UjZOUkfIRd/igeUy6MPZyReFyLmswcguzbYv1pavAm0Da mbXjpetYWFdHhE+nGVInXLUgjMkUC5eIgWt1pToqK42Siox1IrConX46GQCRok2Qh2TIi9Vx qIlKHQM4qZZ6qZiaqZq6qZzaqZ76qaAKqgFAAAPgA6Naqk4gAAUgAP8FmIgMYRuBCiBQ4aou MAAHcKu3agCsygIBcKuougO9egC/GgMFgKu3uqoyIAC3uqtHEADFegDMKgLKaqwHUADD6gPK GgC7YEZO0Vqx+mFPwa0wYA8CQADVOgDmCq28aqvXigMBwK4i0KvRugKqegCk+qzaCgPlqq5I 8K62agAlMKrnOgC2egAGkK/Yyq+KQKvq4ELx1AJJ6BAMyxHL0KuoqqztigLC+gMbCwDKOq/0 yq+2CrIs8LFMUAAFcAIdKwLmmrI/IK+8MLHogCyEugLnNE7TSIwi0LEm2wIrywMr+6sCkLEl 0LO2irAv0LNJoLQk8LMAYK4kmwMHkK8uqwP/Q0sCVbtUOStR33oDNYtVJ4gDFamKU4UTJkCt BYC0KuC0OsC2AGCtJUutBDADTHsEcKuy12qxQLCrAwCwO3C3ANC3hri1MfC1A2W4LXCzwWiV ZPsQZlsC9kqwxeqy06qwBVusGVuvG+uskwsAzrqsI3C5PHuwgWusaksCGEuwBmCvInC5+SoA BvCsaSut0Fq5AcC51Tqt2oq50loA6aqr8ZquBFC5BaurWQu57Rq7rYurQru6wPu5Iluttzq3 qGus89q3z4quvhq6x6qtBbus1vu00zsCBFAABkC6pqJcXiePI2FYlflYzUBYGOMMi/WRcKcL 48GF/XJJZZqRp5cs/9UipElppM21WK4VLTdYj4TiSdsgW7JUDpP0TkMRtNBqsdgrApirve2q rKQKvtVqrpyrvayaweZaqrrrsbE7AFFLu8xarAEAuwS7sZervdT7sbZqrdPqu1MLwihswrka w1MbACm8rJhbrypMtADAtr4rvvfKur16rwBbwtX6ttM7AMUarapqAARbAsLbt+e6uqwKw/AK uzicxVtcwuwarMKqsBkKVL2RRmC0duRFluwZXlEpMk8TLOSFMo8ZTeQ4NFODMx8klTEDaq9m DZtQXb+SxyXER4EMUTTUe3MDRuQ0Q+nDoGf7qxbrr87ruSurxJQ7AO+qrgJQub6qtztbqv8C m69aHLfM+rHlWrAmzMNv67eVu6ujHMYeO7Ui0MoCu6s2zMvv+sKsW76eu8JOu8krC8Lfu6zp OsVZHK9OK7gmEM27rK0mG8vbCwCt3Lp+q8a5GrgGMLcrPJWniEUE9JibaRJ8gQdZmpTDQURL 8TaNbEavc1zbqKI4Y5tJqZ1+RDL1nDNipyf8xjwjqC7KpLOZPALyKsTCar67zKxsq7wkALO7 TLAEW8oKy7O8zM1IPAJKm63T2rcX29HUrKyTm68Wfc29XNK4DK1HWwJX7LbIWwJHi8rXzK4Y fbvPysvU7NE27bcmcNLCTMq+2s3dLM7STKoZ3dKI+EMHpEFDI2D/t3Ge7Jk4IVUG2qWij1Im 0QgUCJQUdiKNY3gm71Z0uaGdXGI8eqIMGyQPN2rVCl3RrOu5LmyyEN2rwAuvXCzDworKvTq7 VqzXrMrX2drLVQvR1cyvZFy6t1vXh/20tgytLcuqOI2xpVvDHQvCHLzLKRus34y+AVutr1vC vayuzgqwnf202Pu53ivU4xzUKEDU2qq3N13XFK3UvQy8yorYkHhDInpcb0QRZYMwL+qa/8kI HBpW60NGsuAxzZg3EZEsj/YbWYRz7fA7+ImQ/sw7efHPJSFv8NEow51f2eQ6x+0OTpnE1Ira 7V26uXqsAbu68v2sfvu9pIvf8o2rI4yr/79ctO1NuqZM2sxru7havsdq39Kcq6ubsgOOqj2N vobttu0NurQbvlQs3/QNzfx9uSTwvVjs3/xN3yqMthk+tSBuyoXt3wo0dtrGafTpFTEzp0nG X9XYHPERUe/cSOn2wJXUXdJESDHG4zwpwBj2Z2HwLINhN4MCkTUIpdFdyWFgPbZ0LanAgxiN 0airwoF7sVs8tCTb1B4r5mM+rENrwlyO0ZZNsNjMxp6b5VwO0ir8roWd0f5aqmrur6VM5v76 wlyeuqK85Wbe0R4723AOsneOtGAurWKe6Gd+vXHO0Du9048+5gJA528e6F2Oy2zO6Fvc4qFa IbldBXWLAs760f8Woo2hXiGXbgi4erwnMLKrPutwoeYlu8K0nuu6vuu83uu+/uvAHuzCPuzE XuzGfuzInuzKvuzM3uzO/uzQHu3SPu3UXu3Wfu3Ynu3avu3c3u3e/u3gHu7iPu7kXu7mfu7o nu7qvu79tAARMAHwHgELMALwXu/1vgAOYO/6Pu8noAAToAL6HvD1Lu8jsAAC/+8PIPAPgAIO 8O7xzu8AYO8k4PATgAAFT/ERoAAi4O8HHwEJH/ALTwLwHvIiYPDw7gAjgAD5Xu8oDwAfPwEr r+8AsPIPgAAwXwIjTwImf/MjEPMwb/Ep4O4sD/Q9b+8OAPQrT/QRX+8l7/Atv/MtDwD/HD8B DzD1ETACFB/wRN/wE3/wE7Dz/37xA6/xUg/vEO/y9a7xBk/2JZLvEeAADc/0ACD0cB/3+P72 cV/3b48C7372JSD0DwD3fZ/wb+/wQI8AhA/3hD/374737x71XY/3LF/yOV/w8Y71E+D4Jz/3 MA/3mS/48t74gs/zRU/6iA/vZG/yih/vCCD0EaDyJ//4AIAAfW/zfr/yUX/6E0D2Nt/5Mc/2 JSD6cU/1ItD7dZ/2Um/4Yn/1Bv/29Y4AtJ/5bB/9X6/7EB8Bmn/8bA/vRI/9o3/8Qk/6wu/0 s+/wEO/6Fm/wSi8iBg/5HA/06k/5CpDxlH/4wD8CHH/1Qb/7/8UPAg4CTA8AONNyniU7RSei ypPDstGk4MtEoyaj3u6k47F8KscNMFudVs9aE5cCGk1OGA6gi82EwVTMCMayrtBsLjI8Xd+s B9pXjritv+GvXBvR5YiRVL34ubzMTSQNXVUtngRGjXAZFSX9QOkMtkD5yHWFio6Slpqeoqaq 4uCFzgx9ytysxZZGPByR+iDhIE69aAEsQP2igM4URlWmgO5urWFGKAwV16yJuP5gOWi1huqs 6DRpExfN8LKEbWvV6iUjh/oIc6bZWFZuAV76QCH2HgYTpkiUjR9JBnbxhUZZGSWcIniCtGoi xYoWL3apxkjZCHhEQHVRIMRHwC7OZv9oQaRDDiJJz8zEoydoBDOTRdqxkvgSxy9vGQsO4tYi 2QmRN0RCIjOnzKtsceB085NQ6jyQAn1OjVTw0AglEURgI1GSBMBRLut5WQjgbAt2Mi0pU2ok Isa6du/aFYkurcF52ux9tFVmzyiHP8b9BfW375a/VINYrVmTCI8UhTlpVNdH1BOkNFMSbWtJ SqVibzsTFurlMVw9gkfp0Jp2XKO/j8bi89eFLSEAIh/zRmRZVKxPciEWZY13OfPmvhcuEBeX G2BMVosurm7zgQPpZNVMZRK7xle5eqzGmoyp8tuq6RbOKI+PJw07KFIqB2xfyYruvTjXx4Vq 431DlXrf6MT/ShmSgEOCHN0dJlpWEobC1hV/7RWcFgda594XXkChgHLOkVjiRPHFBEtQe+HU hThM0JHgenAg4cJTwERRxS/DxDRWEBzZ1JVubdAHzU48ZgMFGQO+JdIaP4j4YR0AKgmDaikY SWFcoriBJUFaSBJGLP6gKFYoufm4VoJWijefmme65aM3tYiDnBNZmpinnqY0GJh7cFzyZyhG 5YSnMwl1Mx+ZXBTjQzIR0ueWkSu1AJ12mWHh6E9rbLKhm2npAeUXMlIpCCKedZHCXiQECuhz Mqna2qtiUAoTqETcZpZOsdZAj4YvWNpELQhsgueexyL7Uwkq+lETAjG+QYexuUQj/4qX9DG1 WQsNSeckoJbCgIR9wBKjQzBKPFAbVZri4G0QC6VQiLmC2BkdGmHEoEQhIoEUb07BbNIEsUMq A9jAd0A6sBYDEyEGGTQB9nDB1OATnSaDhJHqfLWSh8mygPpBbWNKjpisySUi9dc12VW3iVou P6nNg9pIpbJfKrAsRMqOcZldHiyIuNi6Pmv8QzA701w0Piil4zI5FQJBWD1GXugH04osFlrB jkWb3SPa8OKs0DjEaHNj2VVKWGK99rX22UAYpi1f1fFjyXUn4+3cAkwkowDffEOzNxMgCR6W MHzL4TcT0Pw9hOIo/D24E5EzAWAJSROHeGGahwR4OpQTpf+4A9AoYCQCnnNWBZI9DIp6UVn+ jUrhkfGdKudw9MDEqpCPbnvkadTOeyGxC2/F7YdLngTf6CxAjbF5Qx+99M3VPTAMd0+fvfbb c9+99xYhEL7445Nfvvnno5+++uuzX/7e4194ffvz01+//ffjn7/++/Pfv//ify+AOGAAAQto wAMiMIEKXCADG+jAB0IQDxGAIAUraMELYjCDGtwgBzvowQ8eUIAiHCEJS2jCE6IwhSpcIQtb 6MIXwjCGMpwhDWtowxviMIc63CEPe+jDHwIxiEIcIhGLaMQjIjGJSlwiE5voxCdCMYpSnCIV q2jFK2Ixi1rcIhe76MUvgjGMYhz/IxnLaMYzojGNalwjG9voxjfCMY5ynCMd62jHO+Ixj3rc Ix/76Mc/AjKQghwkIQtpyEMiMpEYSYAEEqDIRwoRAhSY5CQbWRdKUrIBJWrAJB0JyU/6kJOO ZCQF7CIBCQCAlJokUQIo4ElQwjKHrXylK+vSAFSeQAKrdM4sY+nLG/YSAA2AgCoa8Eoc3JIF uixRMH/pzBi2kpLLTEUtQ5FMYeKSldV8JjdbGExOElOYlczlJDUpyUmGkwWcHCcy2UnKRjbA mJT0JCcl4EpSUsCejlxnNrvpzxE2k5PYPAEEICBKSZ5gm8hEJTjVicuCAkACxIwmAEoJAIja s5QGlegJ/0RZ0Xgq9J8i7V4zW3lRTLoykwk9pkPJucpzUrKiE6XAS+2Jy2sK9AS9zGg6R+rT 7QVUoz1NJQT0WVGWdhSX0XQkRNvJTo7i9KYWTWU1i0rTn2I1e61cJSM1yUlNMlKSCejlVUNx SnXmMwFfTSUqm6rTWp51oAm1pFjXStOwZjWvJoumNHfJT7Wq9KRlJWhg1wnStAq2nBHNZz35 OkqbRnOdFAhnTvVqWR1WtqjLueZlO2tDj+IVLyH1LGlhCNOhlja1ql0ta1vr2tfCNrayna33 murWU1yTkUilLW/zBNNKItWexBRuFySLSZCicqm9Xe6xQGtPFtg2nLd9qye3Kv/XYE6Tudpd TjOrKt3vimKbV81tNbO73fMusprDFEV0w4tU8u4WvfKlCF8Zy17whqK8lFXqaOfrX1V8c7IE fSl+u4DS/VI3l57MqFJPCdz/+jeoJyUwQVF71FwimKqONGo8NRzNcMYVwugtqUWn2d78vpe/ nlTvOVdMz6mKeLsSjiiFL2rhbW4VvivFpiarWU2Txvi81mXrKjl60Yf2862rXKc4R1nWq0J0 rR/tKIyD3Nv62lecjM1kTFy04B46NqPDROeHJXlLdFa0k1ZeM5vghOA3wznOcp4znets5zvj Oc963jOf++znPwM60IIeNKyC3hhDIzrRiInNMxvt6EcGQzrShAwBADs= --------------AttPart_25068557==.OLA-- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (S01060004e289e15e.vw.shawcable.net [70.70.185.176]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9VEjJZ7029858 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:45:20 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:45:16 +0100 From: "Herman" To: Subject: Men's Health Message-ID: <001001c5dd93$bc191aa0$0200a8c0@noop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suffering from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help you! Great choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20 Vlaggra as low as $3.84=20 ClaIis as low as $5.67=20 Xanaks as low as $2.47=20 VaIium as low as $3.41=20 Traumaddol as low as $3.30 UItram as low as $3.33=20 Soomma as low as $0.88=20 Meridida as low as $2.48=20 Our phartmacy is LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Suffering=20 from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help=20 you!
Great=20 choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20
 
Vlaggra=20 as low as $3.84 =
ClaIis=20 as low as $5.67 =
Xanaks=20 as low as $2.47 =
VaIium=20 as low as $3.41 =
Traumaddol=20 as low as=20 $3.30    
UItram=20 as low as $3.33 =
Soomma=20 as low as $0.88 =
Meridida=20 as low as $2.48 =
 
Our = phartmacy is=20 LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!
 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360-- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (d083020.adsl.hansenet.de [80.171.83.20]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9UCu2nI015842 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:56:02 +0100 (MET) Date: So, 30 Okt 2005 13:55:57 +0100 From: "Freud" To: Subject: Men's Health Message-ID: <001001c5dd93$bc191aa0$0200a8c0@noop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suffering from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help you! Great choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20 Vlaggra as low as $3.84=20 ClaIis as low as $5.67=20 Xanaks as low as $2.47=20 VaIium as low as $3.41=20 Traumaddol as low as $3.30 =20 UItram as low as $3.33=20 Soomma as low as $0.88=20 Meridida as low as $2.48=20 Our phartmacy is LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Suffering=20 from pain, depression or heartburn? We'll help=20 you!
Great=20 choice of wonderful meds to give you long-awaited relief!=20
 
Vlaggra=20 as low as $3.84 =
ClaIis=20 as low as $5.67 =
Xanaks=20 as low as $2.47 =
VaIium=20 as low as $3.41 =
Traumaddol=20 as low as=20 $3.30    
UItram=20 as low as $3.33 =
Soomma=20 as low as $0.88 =
Meridida=20 as low as $2.48 =
 
Our = phartmacy is=20 LICENSED, verified by BBB and approved by VISA!
 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DD50.AC7AD360-- Return-Path: Received: from 192.71.228.17 ([221.13.239.135]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9UA5k92014958 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:05:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from kxB@localhost by 3702.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:17:31 -0200 Message-ID: From: "Barbara Melendez" Reply-To: "Barbara Melendez" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95 Systemworks Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:19:31 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: RandiJacobson@yuxh.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--6FqG6aGLtE4sssLQq" Kn0g ----6FqG6aGLtE4sssLQq Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable z
Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
= =
SEARCH

Microsoft Window= s XP Professional *w/SP2*
Microsoft

<= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

=
=  <= /tr>
<= p align=3Dcenter>  ON SALE NOW!

 = ;1 Windows XP Pro SP2
 = ;2 Creative Suite 2
 3 MS Office 2003 Pro
 4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
 <= /td>5 Macromedia Flash 8
 = 6 Dreamweaver 8
 7= Norton Sysworks 2005
 8 Adobe GoLive CS2
 9 Adobe Illustrator CS2
 = ;10 Borland Architect 2005
&= nbsp; See more by this manufacturer
   Microsoft
   Macromedia
  Ado= be
  Customers also b= ought
   these other items...

<= /p>

Choose:<= /b>
=  <= input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/s= earch-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DGo border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.di= splay-variation width=3D21 height=3D21>
<= /tr>
List Price:$299.00
Price:$49.99
Y= ou Save:$249.01 (80%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download= !
Coupon Code: W3XuHp
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #1
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date Coup= on Expires: December 31st, 2005
Avera= ge Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 1951 reviews. Write a review.

<= td width=3D100% height=3D55>

Adobe Creative Suite 2 *Pre= mium*
Adobe<= /a>

Choose:=
 

List Price:$1199.00
Price:$149.99
You Save:$1049.01 (95%)



= Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: pgTjstR
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #= 2
System = requirements  |  Other Ver= sions
Date Coupon Expires: Decemb= er 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 1735 reviews. Write a= review.

Microsoft Office 2003 *Professiona= l*
Microsoft=

Choose:
 

<= /tr>
List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99
Y= ou Save:$429.01 (85%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download= !
Coupon Code: ZokyQB
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #3
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date Coup= on Expires: December 31st, 2005
Avera= ge Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 11149 reviews. Write a review.

Adobe Acrob= at Professional V 7.0
Adobe=

=
Choose:
 

=

List Price:<= /b>$499.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$429.01 (85%)



= Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: n1wHi
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #4<= /span>
System re= quirements  |  Other Versi= ons
Date Coupon Expires: December= 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:<= img height=3D12 alt=3D"5 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/= images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 bord= er=3D0> Based on 12372 reviews. Write a = review.

----6FqG6aGLtE4sssLQq-- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (chello087207219098.chello.pl [87.207.219.98]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9T9RnAY021128 for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:28:00 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <000001c5dc6a$8b33d080$0100007f@localhost> From: "Albert Collins" To: Subject: Don't be left behing- the enlargement revolution! Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:34:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DC6A.8B33D080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DC6A.8B33D080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! Name Patches Regular Now Steel Package 10 Patches $79.95 $49.95 Free shipping Silver Package 25 Patches $129.95 $99.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included Gold Package 40 Patches $189.95 $149.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included Platinum Package 65 Patches $259.95 $199.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DC6A.8B33D080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results.

Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind!

As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself!

Here's the link to check out!

Name Patches Regular Now
Steel Package 10 Patches $79.95 $49.95 Free shipping
Silver Package 25 Patches $129.95 $99.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included
Gold Package 40 Patches $189.95 $149.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included
Platinum Package 65 Patches $259.95 $199.95 Free shipping and exercise manual included
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DC6A.8B33D080-- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pool-68-239-189-234.nwrk.east.verizon.net [68.239.189.234]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9RNDDOu003205 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:13:14 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:13:17 +0100 From: "Feinberg" To: Subject: New! Legal RX Medications site promotion Message-ID: <000601c5d9ab$6f1a5980$795bcf52@wdewk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html
Tired of looking for quality online meddicatlons?
Get them at one of the best international online phartmacies.


Great variety of LEGAL products to meet all your needs:
Affordable pri$es
Secure payment system
Operative support
Fast worldwide shipplng
(buy 2 or more items and get shipplng for FREE!)

You will never find a better place! Make sure right now!
Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pool-71-113-28-243.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.113.28.243]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9RLtlfs012891 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:55:47 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <000001c5db40$211f0c80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Hugo Stewart" To: Subject: 0EM Software Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:55:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DB40.211F0C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DB40.211F0C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TOP 10 NEW TITLES ON SALE NOW! 1 Office Pro 2003 2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0 3 Windows XP Pro 4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro 5 Flash MX 2004 6 Corel Draw 12 7 Norton Antivirus 2005 8 Windows 2003 Server 9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt 10 Adobe Illustrator 11 See more by this manufacturer Microsoft Symantec Adobe Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 by Microsoft ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 42 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 42 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 33 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DB40.211F0C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
    Microsoft
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 39 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 45 reviews)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 34 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DB40.211F0C80-- Return-Path: Received: from 192.71.228.17 ([221.126.94.143]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9RIT4g1004106 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:29:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from xfz7@localhost by tbrd.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:06:10 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Jeannine Numbers" Reply-To: "Jeannine Numbers" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Huge $avings on ALL best-selling Win XP titles Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:01:10 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: JimmieBarnes@corriedales.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--63421940339115485706" e319 ----63421940339115485706 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable V
Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
= =
SEARCH

Microsoft Window= s XP Professional *w/SP2*
Microsoft

<= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

=
=  <= /tr>
<= p align=3Dcenter>  ON SALE NOW!

 = ;1 Windows XP Pro SP2
 = ;2 Creative Suite 2
 3 MS Office 2003 Pro
 4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
 <= /td>5 Macromedia Flash 8
 = 6 Dreamweaver 8
 7= Norton Sysworks 2005
 8 Adobe GoLive CS2
 9 Adobe Illustrator CS2
 = ;10 Borland Architect 2005
&= nbsp; See more by this manufacturer
   Microsoft
   Macromedia
  Ado= be
  Customers also b= ought
   these other items...

<= /p>

Choose:<= /b>
=  <= input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/s= earch-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DGo border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.di= splay-variation width=3D21 height=3D21>
<= /tr>
List Price:$299.00
Price:$49.99
Y= ou Save:$249.01 (80%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download= !
Coupon Code: mG8gwZkFW
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #1
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date C= oupon Expires: December 31st, 2005
Av= erage Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 17175 reviews. Write a review.

<= tr>

Adobe Creative Suite 2 = *Premium*
Ad= obe

Choose:<= tr>
 

List Price:<= /b>$1199.00
Price:$149.99
You Save:$1049.01 (95%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code= : SA6XEy4
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #2
Syst= em requirements  |  Other = Versions
Date Coupon Expires: Dec= ember 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:= 3D"5 Based on 1516 reviews. Writ= e a review.

Microsoft Office 2003 *Professi= onal*
Micros= oft

Choose:<= tr>
 

You Save:



Availability: Available for INSTANT downl= oad!
Coupon Code: UMgsZfvB
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #3
System requirements  |  Other Versions
Date C= oupon Expires: December 31st, 2005
Av= erage Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 16261 reviews. Write a review.

List Price:$499.00
Price:$69.99
$429.01 (85%)

Adobe Acro= bat Professional V 7.0
Adobe

Choose:
<= /td> 

List Price:<= /b>$499.00
Price:$69.99
You Save:$429.01 (85%)



= Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: YxBAeUr
Platform: Windows XP

Sales Rank: #= 4
System = requirements  |  Other Ver= sions
Date Coupon Expires: Decemb= er 31st, 2005
Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 157047 reviews. Write= a review.

----63421940339115485706-- Return-Path: Received: from omc3-s31.bay6.hotmail.com (omc3-s31.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.249.105]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9RBTSiw001585 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:29:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.173.4]) by omc3-s31.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:29:28 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:29:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 81.202.32.25 by by5fd.bay5.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:29:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [81.202.32.25] X-Originating-Email: [infomailersec17@msn.com] X-Sender: infomailersec17@msn.com From: "BONO LOTTERY INTERNATIONAL SPAIN" To: infomailersec17@msn.com Subject: winning notification Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:29:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2005 11:29:28.0080 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0F1D100:01C5DAE9] FROM THE DESK OF THE PROMOTIONS MANAGER, INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS AWARD DEPARTMENT Ref: FER/4690/6103/24 Batch:245-379-482 Winning No:701/RMD/123 Attn: We happily announce to you the draw of the Bono Lottery International Program held on the 2oth of October,2005. Your name "email address" was attached to ticket number; 12324277 serial number 6663817262 This batch draws the lucky numbers as follows 2-9-22-23-24-30 bonus number 5, which consequently won the lottery in the second category. You hereby have been approved lump sum pay of? 1,000,000.00 (ONE MILLION DOLLARS)file from the total cash prize of ?15,000,000.00 shared amongst ten lucky winners based on their category. All participants "email address" were selected through a computer balloting system drawn from Nine hundred thousand names from Canada,Australia,United States,Asia, Europe, Middle East, Africa and Oceanic as part of our international promotions program which is conducted annually. This Lottery was promoted and sponsored by some multinational companies as part of their social responsibility to the citizens in the communities where they have operational base. To process your claims you are hereby advice to contact the appointed agent below with your Full Name, Contact Home and Office Address Tel & Fax Number for easy communication. MR.NELSON SMITH OCEANIC AGENCIA SPAIN Email:oceanicagencia@netscape.net Please quote your reference, batch and winning number which can be found on the top left corner of this notification as well as your full names and address to help locate your file easily. For security reasons, we advice all winners to keep this information confidential from the public until your claim is processed and your prize released to you. This is part of our security protocol to avoid dual claiming and unwarranted taking advantage of this program by non-participant or unofficial personnel. Note, all winnings must be claimed before 10th of November,2005 otherwise your prize will be returned as Unclaimed and eventually donated to charity. Congratulations once again on your winnings!!! Best Regards Angela Sanchez Co-ordinator BONO LOTTERY INTERNATIONAL SPAIN. Return-Path: Received: from localhost (tdev233-75.codetel.net.do [200.88.233.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9QJZFRt026925 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:35:19 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <000001c5da63$82bd7900$0100007f@localhost> From: "Garrett Hall" To: Subject: Photoshop, Windows, Office Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:35:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA63.82BD7900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA63.82BD7900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TOP 10 NEW TITLES ON SALE NOW! 1 Office Pro 2003 2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0 3 Windows XP Pro 4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro 5 Flash MX 2004 6 Corel Draw 12 7 Norton Antivirus 2005 8 Windows 2003 Server 9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt 10 Adobe Illustrator 11 See more by this manufacturer Microsoft Symantec Adobe Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 by Microsoft ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 47 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 32 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 37 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA63.82BD7900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
    Microsoft
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 35 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 43 reviews)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 38 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DA63.82BD7900-- Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9QF0OCh025766 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:00:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9QF0Ojq004372 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:00:24 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9QF0Kun003645 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:00:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9QFECYe016732; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:14:13 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:00:19 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:00:40 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F86713@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZqtoIP7ofgoOtR/CLrsCwOZOE3gAkw8zQ From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Edward Lewis" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2005 15:00:19.0063 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB1AE070:01C5DA3D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9QF0Nun007817 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Lewis [mailto:Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz] > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:27 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: Edward Lewis; ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft > > At 15:41 -0400 10/25/05, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > > >Ed, both the dnssec document and the enum document (as > another example) > >*were* described on the provreg list. The list has remained > open partly > >so it could be used as a resource for continued discussion. > > True, the docs do get mention, but having to dig back 3 years through > archives is a bit much. Especially when the digger isn't aware there > is something to find there. I'd agree if those were the only times the documents were mentioned on this list. They're not. -Scott- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (200-122-113-135.dsl.prima.net.ar [200.122.113.135] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9PN3oMU019649 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:03:52 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <000001c5d9b7$4d5b5180$0100007f@localhost> From: "Danny Jenkins" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:03:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9B7.4D5B5180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9B7.4D5B5180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TOP 10 NEW TITLES ON SALE NOW! 1 Office Pro 2003 2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0 3 Windows XP Pro 4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro 5 Flash MX 2004 6 Corel Draw 12 7 Norton Antivirus 2005 8 Windows 2003 Server 9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt 10 Adobe Illustrator 11 See more by this manufacturer Microsoft Symantec Adobe Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 by Microsoft ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 37 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 46 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 31 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9B7.4D5B5180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
    Microsoft
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 31 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 48 reviews)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 39 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9B7.4D5B5180-- Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PLR3Mc014975 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:27:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PLR32N029098 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:27:03 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PLQxIu025282 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:27:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PLQlXD033325; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:26:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C94B@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C94B@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:26:49 -0700 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" From: Edward Lewis Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: "Edward Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk At 15:41 -0400 10/25/05, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >Ed, both the dnssec document and the enum document (as another example) >*were* described on the provreg list. The list has remained open partly >so it could be used as a resource for continued discussion. True, the docs do get mention, but having to dig back 3 years through archives is a bit much. Especially when the digger isn't aware there is something to find there. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJfg9O007336 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJfgjX023353 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:42 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJffIb016579 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:41 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJtP4W014133; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:55:25 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:41:40 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:41:59 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C94B@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZlsH6meleDQknTuKqD9ziE/q0JwABA0Ow From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Edward Lewis" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2005 19:41:40.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[1ED24730:01C5D99C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PJfgIb008367 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Lewis [mailto:Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz] > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:03 PM > To: Klaus Malorny > Cc: Hollenbeck, Scott; ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft > > At 20:45 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: > >Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > >> Klaus, > >> You should really read the mailing list archives of the > dnsop working group. > >> Everything you're asking about was discussed there over > the course of > >> several months before the document was approved by the IESG. > >> -Scott- > >> > > > > > >Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. > > Somewhere, somehow, there was a request to get the DNS ops experts to > review the extension because 1) the subject matter is DNS and 2) > there weren't any EPP-base-protocol issues raised. > > OTOH, Klaus, I agree that it would be nice if the IETF processes were > more forthcoming in a situation like this. I.e., all extension work > on EPP ought to be at least publicized, well, somewhere. To the > IETF, the PROVREG WG is over and done and this list is kind of in > limbo. (It's not even provided by IETF machine resources.) Ed, both the dnssec document and the enum document (as another example) *were* described on the provreg list. The list has remained open partly so it could be used as a resource for continued discussion. DNSSEC: http://www.cafax.se/ietf-provreg/maillist/2002-03/msg00042.html Jaap had also been forwarding I-D announcements to the list. ENUM: http://www.cafax.se/ietf-provreg/maillist/2001-08/msg00106.html -Scott- Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJW1KT007208 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:32:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJW13K010634 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:32:01 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJVxJI023638 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:32:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJjg4v013789; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:45:42 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:31:39 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:31:58 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C940@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZlEhI8woqWE94T2epdXFz7B+hZwAA/2+A From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2005 19:31:39.0714 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8B75220:01C5D99A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PJW1JI000243 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Malorny [mailto:Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de] > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:45 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft > > Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > > Klaus, > > > > You should really read the mailing list archives of the > dnsop working group. > > Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the > course of > > several months before the document was approved by the IESG. > > > > -Scott- > > > > > Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. It is, but your questions were about DNSSEC data and what a zone publisher does with that data. EPP just carries the data. -Scott- Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ64l6003145 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:06:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJ64t6019928 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:06:04 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ62iN003162 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:06:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ5hrF032236; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:05:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <435E8129.5060603@knipp.de> References: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> <435E8129.5060603@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:05:45 -0700 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: Edward Lewis , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk At 21:02 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Thanks for the clarification. I thought the most simple solution to revoke a >key is to remove it from the zone, as it would break the chain of trust also. >But I have to admit that I am not yet fully aware of the effects of >the various >caching mechanisms on the time a resolver can falsely assume the correctness >of a revoked key. I have to check that. One issue I omitted is that there is also the possibility of an illicit replay attack. Besides caches, if the attacker copies the DS set before the key compromise is known, the attacker can poison caches with the set as long as the signature is valid. So even pulling the (DS record of the) key from the parent zone isn't sufficient for revocation. Short of having an explicit revocation list in DNS (never happen), we have this problem. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ391r020038 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:03:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJ39EU003161 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:03:09 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ37Di012364 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:03:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ2pRW032221; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:02:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <435E7D3A.10200@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <435E7D3A.10200@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:02:54 -0700 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: "Hollenbeck, Scott" , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk At 20:45 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> Klaus, >> You should really read the mailing list archives of the dnsop working group. >> Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the course of >> several months before the document was approved by the IESG. >> -Scott- >> > > >Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. Somewhere, somehow, there was a request to get the DNS ops experts to review the extension because 1) the subject matter is DNS and 2) there weren't any EPP-base-protocol issues raised. OTOH, Klaus, I agree that it would be nice if the IETF processes were more forthcoming in a situation like this. I.e., all extension work on EPP ought to be at least publicized, well, somewhere. To the IETF, the PROVREG WG is over and done and this list is kind of in limbo. (It's not even provided by IETF machine resources.) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ2GJx022713 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PJ2GI1008469 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:16 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PJ2GI1017268 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9PJ2Ls26332; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:21 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435E8129.5060603@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:02:01 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Lewis CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft References: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Edward Lewis wrote: > At 18:49 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: > > > To explain #2. Imagine a registrant creates a key and the (DS data > representing the) key is sent to the registry. If the registrant's > private key is then "stolen/guessed/exposed", the party that has gained > illegitimate access to the key can abuse the key as long as the DS > record is seen as valid. So, shortening the DS record means the window > of vulnerability is lessened. > > The TTL record value was also considered, but the DNSSEC specs (RFC > 4034, etc.) already specify the TTL value. > >> related to the above: >> >> ** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? > > > The lifetime is relative. If there is no change, just regenerate the > signature over the DS record. When to regenerate a signature is a > deeper topic - some suggest regenerating signatures about 1/2 way > through the lifetime just to be sure the signatures get out there in > time. But never sign the DS set for more time than the prudent/agreed > upon lifetime duration. > Thanks for the clarification. I thought the most simple solution to revoke a key is to remove it from the zone, as it would break the chain of trust also. But I have to admit that I am not yet fully aware of the effects of the various caching mechanisms on the time a resolver can falsely assume the correctness of a revoked key. I have to check that. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PIjWrj005500 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PIjW3F003487 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:32 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PIjVgc026410 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9PIjXs22573; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:33 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435E7D3A.10200@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:45:14 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > Klaus, > > You should really read the mailing list archives of the dnsop working group. > Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the course of > several months before the document was approved by the IESG. > > -Scott- > Hmm, I thought this was the list that discusses EPP issues. Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHdAl3009532 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:39:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PHdA56006933 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:39:10 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHd8o5012485 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:39:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.35.167.157] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHcqQJ031864; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:38:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> References: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:38:59 -0700 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk At 18:49 +0200 10/25/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Hi all, > >I just browsed through Scott Hollenbeck's secdns EPP extension draft. While it It's not "just" a draft, it's in the RFC Editor Queue. But it is never too late to ask questions. >* The draft allows the specification of a value called "maxSigLife". >This shall > allow the registrar to specify the maximum lifetime of the signature of the > DS > record. However, to my (surely incomplete) understanding of the DNSSEC > standard, the lifetime of an RRSIG signature depends _solely_ on >the intended > lifetime of the related signing key, i.e. in this case the ZSK of the > registry, which depends on the key length and the rollover >strategy chosen by > the registry and not on the content the RRSIG signs (i.e. the DS record in > this case). If at all, it would IMHO make much more sense to allow the > specification of the TTL for the DS record (but this is impossible also). > So to me, this value does not make any sense. Any counter-arguments? The discussion of this happened in a DNSOP meeting in March of this year. The lifetime of a signature is a parameter that: 1) For the benefit of the registry be lengthened to reduce the amount of work needed. 2) For the benefit of the registrant by shortened to limit the time in which a cryptographic accident causes damage. Because of the contradicting goals, we figured the parameter is needed in the protocol. To explain #2. Imagine a registrant creates a key and the (DS data representing the) key is sent to the registry. If the registrant's private key is then "stolen/guessed/exposed", the party that has gained illegitimate access to the key can abuse the key as long as the DS record is seen as valid. So, shortening the DS record means the window of vulnerability is lessened. The TTL record value was also considered, but the DNSSEC specs (RFC 4034, etc.) already specify the TTL value. >related to the above: > >** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? The lifetime is relative. If there is no change, just regenerate the signature over the DS record. When to regenerate a signature is a deeper topic - some suggest regenerating signatures about 1/2 way through the lifetime just to be sure the signatures get out there in time. But never sign the DS set for more time than the prudent/agreed upon lifetime duration. >** what should the registry do if multiple DS records with different > maxSigLife values exist? Your call. If you are nice to the registrant, pick the minimum. If you want to lessen your CPU pick the maximum. ;) I think this isn't so much an interoperability or protocol issue, but a business decision. >* What is the purpose of the "urgent" value? I see no reason why the registry > would not include the new DS record in the very next zone update anyway. > We don't have an "urgent" for NS records neither :-) Hmmm, I forget. >* I do not see any sense in specifying both the contents of the DS record > _and_ the related DNSKEY record at the same time. The DS record can > be calculated from the DNSKEY (of course), and a registry would have to > calculate it anyway in order to verify the equality of both parameters. > To me, it would make more sense to have them as alternatives than of > having both types at the same time. If a registry policy ever wants to > check certain key properties (algorithm, key length), then a registry > can make the specification of the DNSKEY (instead of the DS) mandatory. Not many do. Although I feel that the DS data is all you want to transfer, the protocol schema is written to be more flexible for those who disagree with my view. ;) I say that with some sarcasm, there are some folks that feel that only the DS record is needed, but some others want to have the option to send the key data. Not all registries will have the same business thoughts. >* Using the 16 Bit key tag of the key to identify the DS/DNSKEY that > should be removed from the domain is a bit risky having the probability > in mind that more than one key has exactly this tag. DNSSEC never relies > on the uniqueness of this tag. It kind of does. Some tools will trash a new key that matched existing keys (in tag). But the question remains, I would need to think about it more. Either way you go (delete all, refuse to accept the key at all), something workable will be found. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHYlTA005432 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PHYlHN011785 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:47 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHYiW9008458 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.139]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PHmPOp008470; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:48:25 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:34:41 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:35:00 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C8C6@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Thread-Index: AcXZiKye8z6NN34xTkGp3jwIvLdMrQAAKWEg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2005 17:34:41.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[61C40E00:01C5D98A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PHYkW9008600 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Klaus, You should really read the mailing list archives of the dnsop working group. Everything you're asking about was discussed there over the course of several months before the document was approved by the IESG. -Scott- > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:50 PM > To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft > > > Hi all, > > I just browsed through Scott Hollenbeck's secdns EPP > extension draft. While it > is just another example of an EPP "community driven" > standard, being in the 8th > round already, but mentioned in this list only once yet, and > while I still have > some general concerns regarding the involvement of the > registrar and the > consequences to the actual security of DNSSEC, I don't want > to examine this (at > least now), but I do have some concrete questions regarding > the latest (08) draft: > > * The draft allows the specification of a value called > "maxSigLife". This shall > allow the registrar to specify the maximum lifetime of the > signature of the DS > record. However, to my (surely incomplete) understanding > of the DNSSEC > standard, the lifetime of an RRSIG signature depends > _solely_ on the intended > lifetime of the related signing key, i.e. in this case the > ZSK of the > registry, which depends on the key length and the rollover > strategy chosen by > the registry and not on the content the RRSIG signs (i.e. > the DS record in > this case). If at all, it would IMHO make much more sense > to allow the > specification of the TTL for the DS record (but this is > impossible also). > So to me, this value does not make any sense. Any > counter-arguments? > > related to the above: > > ** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? > > ** what should the registry do if multiple DS records with different > maxSigLife values exist? > > * What is the purpose of the "urgent" value? I see no reason > why the registry > would not include the new DS record in the very next zone > update anyway. > We don't have an "urgent" for NS records neither :-) > > * I do not see any sense in specifying both the contents of > the DS record > _and_ the related DNSKEY record at the same time. The DS record can > be calculated from the DNSKEY (of course), and a registry > would have to > calculate it anyway in order to verify the equality of > both parameters. > To me, it would make more sense to have them as > alternatives than of > having both types at the same time. If a registry policy > ever wants to > check certain key properties (algorithm, key length), then > a registry > can make the specification of the DNSKEY (instead of the > DS) mandatory. > > * Using the 16 Bit key tag of the key to identify the DS/DNSKEY that > should be removed from the domain is a bit risky having > the probability > in mind that more than one key has exactly this tag. > DNSSEC never relies > on the uniqueness of this tag. > > Just my two cents. > > regards, > > Klaus > > > ______________________________________________________________ > _____________ > | | > | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH > ------- Technologiepark > Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 > Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund > Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 > > > > Return-Path: Received: from localhost (dsl-083-247-023-072.solcon.nl [83.247.23.72]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9PHVsIR001225 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:31:54 +0200 (MEST) Date: di, 25 okt 2005 19:31:54 +0100 From: "Goldwyn" To: Subject: Primary source of OEM XP software Look no further ! Message-ID: <000601c5b984$83bbc5f0$0c6e81d4@oledra> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

Get access to all the popular software imaginable for prices substantially lower than in stores!
We sell software 2-6 times cheaper than retail price.
Examples:
$69.95 Windows XP Professional (Including: Service Pack 2)
$79.95 Microsoft Office 2003 Professional / $79.95 Office XP Professional
$89.95 Adobe Photoshop 8.0/CS (Including: ImageReady CS)
$209.95 Macromedia Studio MX 2004 (Including: Dreamweaver MX + Flash MX+ Fireworks MX)
$69.95 Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Professional
$59.95 Quark Xpress 6 Passport Multilanguage
 Special Offers:
$139.95 Windows XP Professional + Office XP Professional
$139.95 Adobe Creative Suite Premium (5 CD)
 All main products from Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, Corel, etc.
And many more... Go visit us !

Sincerely,
Vanessa J. Smith
Return-Path: Received: from localhost (dsl-083-247-023-072.solcon.nl [83.247.23.72]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9PHVrWV011657 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:31:53 +0200 (MEST) Date: di, 25 okt 2005 19:31:53 +0100 From: "Freud" To: Subject: So, why go to your local dr@gstore? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

All products for your health!
Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from vsmtp3.tin.it (vsmtp3alice.tin.it [212.216.176.143]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PGpxiG007690 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:51:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: from pswm18.cp.tin.it (212.216.176.84) by vsmtp3.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 435D27BE000808FF; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:12:16 +0200 Message-ID: <22165562.1130256739262.JavaMail.root@pswm18.cp.tin.it> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:12:19 +0100 (GMT+01:00) From: Freelottoespanol Reply-To: cajamadridfinanc@netscape.net Subject: YOU HAVE WON!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="UTF-8" X-Originating-IP: 83.44.3.101 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PGpxiG007690 FREE LOTTO INTERNATIONAL, 10 C/Teresa,Madrid 20068, Spain. FROM: THE DESK OF THE DIRECTOR PROMOTIONS, INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARDDEPARTMENT, REF: 232/656/4509 BATCH:427901527-Dg43 NOTIFICATION/FINAL NOTICE We are pleased to inform you of the announcement today,25th of October,2005 the winners of the FREE LOTTO INTERNATIONAL held on 24th October,2005. Your email address attached to ticket number 175420658766483, with serial number A025-09 drew the lucky numbers 8-16-18-23-31-45, and consequently won in category C. You have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay of $1,500, 000.00 in cash credited to file REF 232/656/4509 1.Email ticket:number: 175420658766483 2.BATCH:427901527-Dg43 3.The file Ref number: 232/656/4509 4.lucky numbers: 8-16-18-23-31-45 All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from more than 100,000 companies/individuals from Middle East, Australia,New Zealand,America, Asia, Europe and North America as part of our International Promotions Program, which is conducted annually. CONGRATULATIONS! Your fund is now deposited with CAJA MADRID ESPAÑA (Paying Bank)insured in your email address. Due to the mix up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award strictly from public notice until your claim has been processed and your money remitted to your account. This is part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unscrupulous acts by participants of this program. We hope with a part of your prize, you will participate in our end of year high stakes $25 million International lotto. To begin your claim, please contact your paying bank immediately: Mr.José Luis Hod Accounts Dept, Caja Madrid Espana Tel: +34 678 957 525 EMAIL:cajamadridfinanc@netscape. net websit:http://www.cajamadrid.es For due processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice. Remember, you must contact your paying bank as soon as possible. NOTE: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications, please remember to quote your reference number in every one of your correspondences with your paying bank. Furthermore, should there be any change of your address, do inform your paying bank as soon as possible. Congratulations again from all our staff and thank you for being part of our program. Sincerely, Mrs. Veronica Davis, THE DIRECTOR PROMOTIONS, FREE LOTTO INTERNATIONAL.N.B. Any breach of confidentiality on the part of the Winners will result to disqualification. contact your paying bank immediately through the above information. Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PGnalr010239 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:36 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PGnaio017478 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:36 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PGnZAB017240 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9PGnfs25844; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:41 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435E622E.1050706@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:49:50 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] secdns draft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9PGnZAB000507 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hi all, I just browsed through Scott Hollenbeck's secdns EPP extension draft. While it is just another example of an EPP "community driven" standard, being in the 8th round already, but mentioned in this list only once yet, and while I still have some general concerns regarding the involvement of the registrar and the consequences to the actual security of DNSSEC, I don't want to examine this (at least now), but I do have some concrete questions regarding the latest (08) draft: * The draft allows the specification of a value called "maxSigLife". This shall allow the registrar to specify the maximum lifetime of the signature of the DS record. However, to my (surely incomplete) understanding of the DNSSEC standard, the lifetime of an RRSIG signature depends _solely_ on the intended lifetime of the related signing key, i.e. in this case the ZSK of the registry, which depends on the key length and the rollover strategy chosen by the registry and not on the content the RRSIG signs (i.e. the DS record in this case). If at all, it would IMHO make much more sense to allow the specification of the TTL for the DS record (but this is impossible also). So to me, this value does not make any sense. Any counter-arguments? related to the above: ** what should the registry do at the end of the lifetime? ** what should the registry do if multiple DS records with different maxSigLife values exist? * What is the purpose of the "urgent" value? I see no reason why the registry would not include the new DS record in the very next zone update anyway. We don't have an "urgent" for NS records neither :-) * I do not see any sense in specifying both the contents of the DS record _and_ the related DNSKEY record at the same time. The DS record can be calculated from the DNSKEY (of course), and a registry would have to calculate it anyway in order to verify the equality of both parameters. To me, it would make more sense to have them as alternatives than of having both types at the same time. If a registry policy ever wants to check certain key properties (algorithm, key length), then a registry can make the specification of the DNSKEY (instead of the DS) mandatory. * Using the 16 Bit key tag of the key to identify the DS/DNSKEY that should be removed from the domain is a bit risky having the probability in mind that more than one key has exactly this tag. DNSSEC never relies on the uniqueness of this tag. Just my two cents. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PDbshm006902 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9PDbsIc019347 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:54 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nohope.patoche.org ([62.160.23.78]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9PDbrfI001976 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nohope.patoche.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j9PDbr2m028496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:53 +0200 Received: (from patrick@localhost) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9PDbqFk028494; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:53 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:52 +0200 From: Patrick Mevzek To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] Open source EPP implementation, with EURid EPP extensions Message-ID: <20051025133752.GA26116@nohope.patoche.org> References: <20050813005843.GA16775@nohope.patoche.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050813005843.GA16775@nohope.patoche.org> X-PGP-KeyID: A241FB6B X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9DA9 5054 7A5D 03FC A9AD 9AFF 1371 9F06 A241 FB6B X-Request-PGP: http://www.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xA241FB6B Organization: Dot And Co User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hello, As a quick note related to recent threads, a new release of my open source RRP/EPP/whatever client is available, with all EURid EPP extensions. It makes it possible to connect simultanously to various EPP registries, each with its given set of restrictions/extensions/policies, and still maintain some consistency. I hope it can be a proof that, even if multiple EPP extensions exist for the same thing, it is possible to hide all differences in a library, and let registration software have an uniform API. This shows that EPP is far from a failure as some try to depict it, and registries currently unwilling to even consider it, will just need to adapt themselves the hard way in a few years. This does not mean that everyone must/should use EPP, just that if they are problems, they can be discussed here, and solutions can be find to enhance the protocol and make sure it accomodates all cases. I hence put running code on the table, in hope it can be hopefull and will not post here anymore about this software. If interested : http://www.dotandco.com/services/software/Net-DRI/index.en -- Patrick Mevzek Dot and Co Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OGSBNL014357 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9OGSB1r022538 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:11 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OGSAI2028123 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9OGSAs08264; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:11 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435D0BA6.6060405@knipp.de> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:28:22 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> <20051024130802.GA29890@libertyrms.info> In-Reply-To: <20051024130802.GA29890@libertyrms.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9OGSBI2024215 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 12:12:25AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: >> I didn't say that. People can compromise. If they believe they have a >> benefit from it, directly or indirectly. They won't if there aren't enough >> incentives. > > Well, this is different from the position as you put it before, where > the suggestion is that the registries _can't_ compromise. If you're > merely making the assertion that they _won't_, then it's a question > that is empirically satisfied. But given that (for example) NeuStar, > VeriSign, and Afilias managed together to co-ordinate a response to > the ICANN redemption grace period, there's at least _prima facie_ > evidence that your assertion is false. > You likely did it because you believed that you would have a benefit from the cooperation. No contradiction to what I wrote. >> Hmm. Maybe you don't know. HTML is dead. HTML is the prototype of a failed >> standard in many ways. W3C is working for many, many years now to fix that. > > But it was nevertheless hugely successful, even if it's not pure. > The point here, as I understand it, is at least partly "running > code"; and by that estimation, HTML was a wild success. > Well, no doubt that HTML was a success. But mostly because it was broken by Netscape & MS, who introduced elements like the element or various attributes for tables etc. that allowed the usersto "design" their pages for the first time instead of having them to look like scientific essays, and who wrote HTML parsers that forgave nearly every syntactical error of the author. >> Well, I can send e-mails to nearly everyone connected to the Internet >> without using X-headers. But I can't register a .us, .coop, .eu domain, for >> example, without using the appropriate proprietary extensions. I can do >> this only for vanilla registries, mostly gTLDs. There is a difference at >> least to me. > > First, there _are_ people who use X headers as tokens for various > things, which then extend the functionality of those systems (it > seems to me that I've had messages from a Lotus Notes user that > contained more X-headers than anything else). I couldn't use that > functionality, because I didn't know what the headers meant. Does > that meant that those particular X-headers are bad? (I say, "No.") > Please read what I have written. I never claimed that X-headers are bad. Also, in a closed user group, it is not a problem to use proprietary extensions. > More significantly, though, your argument above seems to be that, > because you have to use this or that extension to a base protocol to > express this or that unusual policy in a given registry, that proves > that the base protocol is not useful. It's really a false dichotomy: > either the protocol can be used everywhere, or it's not a protocol. > You're welcome to that view; but with respect, I think it's not one > consistent with a large portion of technical or even human > experience: "SQL" is still a useful name for something, even though > the way you express it when using Oracle, DB2, PostgreSQL, or MS SQL > Server are different. Again, you interpret my words in a false way. I clearly indicated that it will become _less_ useful. Same applies to SQL. > >> By the way, you are the one who wants to dictate every registry to use a >> standard, namely EPP. I just question the value of a standard that is >> practically incomplete for a non-negligible number of registries in the one >> hand, and too limited for them at the same time in the other hand. > > I don't want to dictate anything: use what you want. I am > suggesting, however, that the limitations you are observing can be > solved by the creative use of the extension mechanism; and that > co-ordination on that front may be achieved through the IETF. > Therefore, I claim it would be more helpful to suggest alterations or > extensions than it is to stand by and make sweeping claims about > disutility. In my opinion, registries that adopt, extend, and > improve EPP have an advantage over those that stick with a different > base protocol. This is a matter for empirical discovery, though; and > it'd be hard to test my hypothesis if we don't have any hold outs. > > A > Sorry to say that, I don't know whether it is the language barrier and my bad English, your personal dislike of critism on EPP or even a breeze of arrogance that you constantly miss the point I am talking about. If you had read my previous postings carefully enough, you wouldn't fight on non-existing battle fields. Therefore, I regard any further discussion on this topic as a waste of my time. As I have to waste my time elsewhere, e.g. on implementing the EURid EPP extensions (@EURid: no personal attack, but a matter of fact), I won't continue the discussion. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OD8HvE005214 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:08:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9OD8H8i015292 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:08:17 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9OD8G6q026659 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:08:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1EU23i-0006id-Id for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:14 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 6D91D13744; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:03 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051024130802.GA29890@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 12:12:25AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > > I didn't say that. People can compromise. If they believe they have a > benefit from it, directly or indirectly. They won't if there aren't enough > incentives. Well, this is different from the position as you put it before, where the suggestion is that the registries _can't_ compromise. If you're merely making the assertion that they _won't_, then it's a question that is empirically satisfied. But given that (for example) NeuStar, VeriSign, and Afilias managed together to co-ordinate a response to the ICANN redemption grace period, there's at least _prima facie_ evidence that your assertion is false. > Hmm. Maybe you don't know. HTML is dead. HTML is the prototype of a failed > standard in many ways. W3C is working for many, many years now to fix that. But it was nevertheless hugely successful, even if it's not pure. The point here, as I understand it, is at least partly "running code"; and by that estimation, HTML was a wild success. > Well, I can send e-mails to nearly everyone connected to the Internet > without using X-headers. But I can't register a .us, .coop, .eu domain, for > example, without using the appropriate proprietary extensions. I can do > this only for vanilla registries, mostly gTLDs. There is a difference at > least to me. First, there _are_ people who use X headers as tokens for various things, which then extend the functionality of those systems (it seems to me that I've had messages from a Lotus Notes user that contained more X-headers than anything else). I couldn't use that functionality, because I didn't know what the headers meant. Does that meant that those particular X-headers are bad? (I say, "No.") More significantly, though, your argument above seems to be that, because you have to use this or that extension to a base protocol to express this or that unusual policy in a given registry, that proves that the base protocol is not useful. It's really a false dichotomy: either the protocol can be used everywhere, or it's not a protocol. You're welcome to that view; but with respect, I think it's not one consistent with a large portion of technical or even human experience: "SQL" is still a useful name for something, even though the way you express it when using Oracle, DB2, PostgreSQL, or MS SQL Server are different. > By the way, you are the one who wants to dictate every registry to use a > standard, namely EPP. I just question the value of a standard that is > practically incomplete for a non-negligible number of registries in the one > hand, and too limited for them at the same time in the other hand. I don't want to dictate anything: use what you want. I am suggesting, however, that the limitations you are observing can be solved by the creative use of the extension mechanism; and that co-ordination on that front may be achieved through the IETF. Therefore, I claim it would be more helpful to suggest alterations or extensions than it is to stand by and make sweeping claims about disutility. In my opinion, registries that adopt, extend, and improve EPP have an advantage over those that stick with a different base protocol. This is a matter for empirical discovery, though; and it'd be hard to test my hypothesis if we don't have any hold outs. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9O8hKx2020678 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:43:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9O8hKwe007038 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:43:20 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx1.univie.ac.at (mx1.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.28]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9O8hI6h019519 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:43:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.249.133]) by mx1.univie.ac.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9O8f28o027444; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:41:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from gw@localhost) by snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9O8f1v132462; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:41:01 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:41:01 +0200 From: Gerhard Winkler To: Patrycja Wegrzynowicz Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051024104101.A187210@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl>; from Patrycja Wegrzynowicz on Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:54:48PM +0200 X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: mx9.univie.ac.at 4249; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 07:54:48PM +0200, Patrycja Wegrzynowicz wrote: > Gerhard Winkler wrote: > > For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): > > the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and > > for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the > > gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). > > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > > (except of receiving notifications of course). > > Hi Gerhard, Hi Patrycja! > > Scott's proposal sounds very fine for your case; although I'd like to > put my 2 cents to your problem. ;) > > 1. Considering Scott's approach one MINOR note to mention: > command must be sent by the registrar which is > not the sponsoring client. It's only the minor note as according to EPP > standard the restriction of this action to the sponsoring client is only > recommended. However, worth to keep this in mind. That's the point where I feel uncomfortable. It's not very nice to implement a policy checking module for access rights where every business case is handled in one way except one single transaction which is handled in another way. But it's manageable to implement. > > 2. Your transfer process seems a lot like ours (.PL registry). .PL also > requires the registrant to confirm/authorize the transfer request. > Although the implementation is a bit different from yours proposal: > - the gaining registrar sends request > - the registry sends email with 'confirmation link' to the registrant > - the registrant clicks 'confirmation link' and then the transfer is done This is exactly what we are currently doing. > > As you see we decided to skip forwarding token forth-and-back in the > registry/registrar/registrant circle. From the semantic point of view > IMO it's more clear since such round-trip seems redundant. I see some > possible explanations of the 'token' approach... although it's more > question to you... what are your reasons behind having token approach > instead of, for example, direct confirmation? One advantage for the gaining registrar is to control the point in time when the transfer is passed. The gaining registrar is able to initiate other transactions without polling the registry for the current status of the transfer immediately. >From the semantic point of view you can see it also the other way round. The registrant gives authorization to the registrar for a transaction. This can be embeded in a more complex process at the registrars side. kind regards -Gerhard -- Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at Vienna University Computer Center | Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 Return-Path: Received: from 85-65-80-20.barak-online.net (85-65-80-20.barak-online.net [85.65.80.20]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9O1nSkh016449 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:49:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: from oxB8@localhost by 0AIf.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:23:48 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Edwin Blanco" Reply-To: "Edwin Blanco" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: MS Office 2003 Pro $69.95 Adobe, Windows Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:18:48 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: JennieLaird@buysony.net Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--1415951050492435" mIH ----1415951050492435 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable f
    Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
    =
    SEARCH

    <= /tr>

    TOP 10 NEW TITLES

    9= =

     = ON SALE NOW!

     1 Office Pro 2003
     2 A= dobe Photoshop 9.0
     3 Windows XP Pro
     4 A= dobe Acrobat 7 Pro
     5 Flash MX 2004
     6 Corel Draw 12
     7 Nort= on Antivirus 2005
     8 Windows 2003 Server
      Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
     10 Adobe Illustrator 11
      See more by this manufacturer<= /b>
       Microsoft
    =    Symantec
       Adobe
      Customers also bought
       these othe= r items...

    Microsoft Office Professional Edition *2003*
    Microsoft

    Choose:
     <= a href=3Dhttp://newsoftsale.com/?w>

    List Price:$499.00
    Price:$69.99<= /b>
    You Save:$429.01 (86= %)



    Availability:= Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: KX9sd85Z
    &nbs= p;

    Sales Rank: #1
    System requirements&= nbsp; |  Other Versions
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
    =     Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based o= n 172144 reviews. Write a review.<= /font>

    Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
    Adobe

    = Choose:
     
    <= /td>

    <= tr><= /table>



    Availability: Available for INSTA= NT download!
    Coupon Code: Gdf2kqPs
     

    Sales Rank: #2
    System requirements  |  Other Versions=
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
    Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 1171 reviews. Write a review.

    List Price:$599.00
    Price:$69.99
    You Save:$529.01 (90%)

    Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longhorn Edition
    Microsoft

    Choose:
    <= a href=3Dhttp://newsoftsale.com/?B>  =

    List Price:$279.00
    Price:$49.99
    You Save:= $229.01 (85%)



    Availa= bility: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: GBie8M= N
     

    Sales Rank: #3<= span class=3Dsmall>
    System require= ments      |  Other Versions=
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31st= , 2005
    Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 117679 reviews. Write a re= view.

    Adobe Acrobat Professional V 7.0 Adobe

    Choose:<= table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 width=3D164>
     

    List Price:$499.00
    Price:$69.99
    You Save:$429.0= 1 (85%)



    Availability= : Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: zPOrJOcP
    =  

    Sales Rank: #4
    System requirements=       |  Other Versions<= /span>
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 200= 5
    Average Customer Review:3D"5 Ba= sed on 1096 reviews. Write a review.

    ----1415951050492435-- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (AStrasbourg-156-1-17-123.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.51.40.123]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9NA5qII004771 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:05:53 +0200 (MEST) Date: dim., 23 oct. 2005 12:05:57 +0100 From: "Goldenson" To: Subject: Why waste time and extra money? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (c-67-172-178-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.172.178.225]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9N1ngcJ026263 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:49:42 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:50:53 +0100 From: "Hellman" To: Subject: No more penis enlarge ripoffs! Message-ID: <002b01c54b50$10e49590$de01a8c0@system> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    Over a million men have been helped with the potent ingredients in
    Pen is Growth Patch - men have experienced bigger size, more action,
    and super-satisfying results for themselves and their partners.
    Don't be left behind! Take advantage of price specials going on now.

    Steel Package: 10 Patches reg $79.95 Now $49.95! Free shipping too!

    Silver Package: 25 Patches reg $129.95, Now $99.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Gold Package: 40 Patches reg $189.95, Now $149.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Platinum Package: 65 Patches reg $259.95, Now $199.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind!

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (c-67-172-178-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.172.178.225]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9N1ndY3001705 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:49:40 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:50:50 +0100 From: "Hillel" To: Subject: Evil-wishers are always around to spread rumors. Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (59-112-2-226.dynamic.hinet.net [59.112.2.226]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9MIuB0D020334 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:56:13 +0200 (MEST) Date: ¬P´Á¤é, 23 ¤Q¤ë 2005 02:56:09 +0100 From: "Adler" To: Subject: Penis enlargement breakthrough! Message-ID: <002b01c54b50$10e49590$de01a8c0@system> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    Over a million men have been helped with the potent ingredients in
    Pen is Growth Patch - men have experienced bigger size, more action,
    and super-satisfying results for themselves and their partners.
    Don't be left behind! Take advantage of price specials going on now.

    Steel Package: 10 Patches reg $79.95 Now $49.95! Free shipping too!

    Silver Package: 25 Patches reg $129.95, Now $99.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Gold Package: 40 Patches reg $189.95, Now $149.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Platinum Package: 65 Patches reg $259.95, Now $199.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind!

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (59-112-2-226.dynamic.hinet.net [59.112.2.226]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9MItioM018192 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:55:50 +0200 (MEST) Date: ¬P´Á¤é, 23 ¤Q¤ë 2005 02:55:40 +0100 From: "Fink" To: Subject: Don't expose your intimate life! Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pool-68-236-143-136.alb.east.verizon.net [68.236.143.136]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9MIYUN4026661 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:34:30 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:34:29 +0100 From: "Herzberg" To: Subject: New Penis Enlargement Patches! Message-ID: <002b01c54b50$10e49590$de01a8c0@system> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    Over a million men have been helped with the potent ingredients in
    Pen is Growth Patch - men have experienced bigger size, more action,
    and super-satisfying results for themselves and their partners.
    Don't be left behind! Take advantage of price specials going on now.

    Steel Package: 10 Patches reg $79.95 Now $49.95! Free shipping too!

    Silver Package: 25 Patches reg $129.95, Now $99.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Gold Package: 40 Patches reg $189.95, Now $149.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Platinum Package: 65 Patches reg $259.95, Now $199.95! Free shipping and free exercise manual included!

    Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind!

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pool-68-236-143-136.alb.east.verizon.net [68.236.143.136]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9MIYTTB002869 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:34:29 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:34:28 +0100 From: "Fleisher" To: Subject: So, why go to your local dr@gstore? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LMrRbM007643 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:53:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LMrRrl014514 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:53:27 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LMrOlh008995 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:53:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9LMCQj05491; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:12:27 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <435967C9.7040807@knipp.de> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:12:25 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> In-Reply-To: <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 10:40:05AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > > >>favourite car brand. Both won't separate the language field into a common >>extension that just takes care about the contact's language, which would, >>on the other hand, be the only correct way from a protocol's perspective. >>The uncontrolled extensibility of a protocol is the protocol's death. Take, > > > This argument is nonsense. It is simply a dogmatic insistence that > people can't compromise to make general operation smoother for > everyone, even if the cost of that is a slightly greater burden for > particular individuals. If that is true, the IETF is a complete > waste of time. > I didn't say that. People can compromise. If they believe they have a benefit from it, directly or indirectly. They won't if there aren't enough incentives. > [...] >>There are likely no two implementations of the [whois] protocol by >>two unrelated entities that are compatible. Those registrars who >>have implemented ICANN's Registrar Transfer Policy for thin >>registries know what this means. So from a protocol's perspective, >>it is the best to nail down everything, and if any extensions are >>required, to have a standardization body to define them. > > > By this logic, HTML is also a failure, because of the ease with which > people were able to ignore the recommendations of the W3C and create > horrors like or tags. Hmm. Maybe you don't know. HTML is dead. HTML is the prototype of a failed standard in many ways. W3C is working for many, many years now to fix that. > X- headers in email are also > an abomination, because nobody can control them and so systems use > them in ways that aren't approved by your favourite official > standards dictator. I don't see that such positions are tenable. Well, I can send e-mails to nearly everyone connected to the Internet without using X-headers. But I can't register a .us, .coop, .eu domain, for example, without using the appropriate proprietary extensions. I can do this only for vanilla registries, mostly gTLDs. There is a difference at least to me. By the way, you are the one who wants to dictate every registry to use a standard, namely EPP. I just question the value of a standard that is practically incomplete for a non-negligible number of registries in the one hand, and too limited for them at the same time in the other hand. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LGMghu018686 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:22:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LGMgIP014222 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:22:42 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LGMfwH011385 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:22:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESzfD-0005Hl-Ni for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:39 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id CA00513744; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:29 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051021162229.GH3701@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> <4358A965.509@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4358A965.509@knipp.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 10:40:05AM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > favourite car brand. Both won't separate the language field into a common > extension that just takes care about the contact's language, which would, > on the other hand, be the only correct way from a protocol's perspective. > The uncontrolled extensibility of a protocol is the protocol's death. Take, This argument is nonsense. It is simply a dogmatic insistence that people can't compromise to make general operation smoother for everyone, even if the cost of that is a slightly greater burden for particular individuals. If that is true, the IETF is a complete waste of time. It happens to be true that sometimes people act unco-operatively: the "Tragedy of the Commons" is neither impossible nor unknown. But it isn't a law of nature, either; and the successful functioning of commons in parts of the world during various historical periods proves as much.[1] It is also lamentably true that some people in the registry community are unwilling to co-operate to make things overall easier for everyone over the long run. That does not entail that protocols designed to serve such co-operation are doomed; and in fact, the extremely helpful comments I received from folks on this list (and also, earlier, from Scott Hollenbeck and James Gould) when I raised some issues that we at Afilias had experienced demonstrates to me that co-operation is possible. Others used some of their time to help co-ordinate a response to a problem that I had. > There are likely no two implementations of the [whois] protocol by > two unrelated entities that are compatible. Those registrars who > have implemented ICANN's Registrar Transfer Policy for thin > registries know what this means. So from a protocol's perspective, > it is the best to nail down everything, and if any extensions are > required, to have a standardization body to define them. By this logic, HTML is also a failure, because of the ease with which people were able to ignore the recommendations of the W3C and create horrors like or tags. X- headers in email are also an abomination, because nobody can control them and so systems use them in ways that aren't approved by your favourite official standards dictator. I don't see that such positions are tenable. That an extensible protocol may be made so flexible as to be no protocol at all is hardly news. But it's some sort of reverse bald-man fallacy to assert therefore that every flexible protocol will never work. We do have a standards body for these things: it's the IETF. If some people don't like the way it works and the costs it imposes (like, for instance, that one has to co-operate with others when the standards are being designed), well, they'll go play in some other sandbox in exactly the way you describe. But of course, they're free to do that anyway: the design of the Internet all but ensures that the level of protocol we're talking about simply can't be enforced by anyone, except maybe through contractual obligations. Now, this sort of standardisation is, of course, dependent on people playing nice. It turns out that every sort of reasonably happy human endeavour works the same way. You can make any city nominally safe and clean through the means of a police state; but the safe, clean cities we like are the ones where the residents mostly don't need to be forced not to beat each other up and not to dump their garbage wherever they happen to be standing. And that requires the majority of residents to co-operate. A [1] Note that this is not an argument that the Internet is a commons or any other such side issue. -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LCC4No028584 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LCC4a4007865 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:04 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from saturno.fccn.pt (saturno.fccn.pt [193.136.7.107]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9LCC3bA001203 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: (qmail 11913 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2005 12:11:59 -0000 Received: from dhcp31.fccn.pt (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (193.136.7.245) by saturno.fccn.pt with SMTP; 21 Oct 2005 12:11:59 -0000 Message-ID: <4358DB02.9010305@fccn.pt> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:11:46 +0100 From: Eugenio Pinto User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> In-Reply-To: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hi all, I would like you to consider doing a webpage for the ietfprovreg wg with the purpose of developing EPPv2 It would represent the EPPv2 working base and it would have someting like: - The entire list of TLD's with a description of the working done in EPP for each TLD, that could include: *if they are running EPP (or a test bed) or not If so what were the necessary extensions to the protocol (it could be a draft) *if they are intended to implement EPP or not If so what is the estimated time delay to do so If not, the reasons for that. *if they think implementing EPP in them Registry is impossible and why (it could be a draft) For those who think that it doesn't worth it, I only have a rhyme from a portuguese poet: "(...)Tudo vale a pena Quando a Alma não é pequena(...)" Which means all the effort worth it if you don't have a closed soul (something like that) I think if we can do such a collection of information it would be much easier to accomplish all the extensions in the new version of EPP And it could have another facility: to provide a base of knowing what's the perfect time to begin doing that effort of accomplishing all the extensions (it would be done only if there was a sufficient and relevant working base to do so) Maybe a service like that could break the inertia that's present in a great number of the Registries.. Best Regards, Goncalves Pinto Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LBQt9e011507 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:26:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9LBQt7D001112 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:26:55 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from saturno.fccn.pt (saturno.fccn.pt [193.136.7.107]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9LBQsCh014276 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:26:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: (qmail 1590 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2005 11:26:49 -0000 Received: from dhcp31.fccn.pt (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (193.136.7.245) by saturno.fccn.pt with SMTP; 21 Oct 2005 11:26:49 -0000 Message-ID: <4358D06B.9010006@fccn.pt> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:26:35 +0100 From: Eugenio Pinto User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> In-Reply-To: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Patrycja Wegrzynowicz wrote: > Gerhard Winkler wrote: > > For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): > > the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and > > for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the > > gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). > > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > > (except of receiving notifications of course). > > Hi Gerhard, > > Scott's proposal sounds very fine for your case; although I'd like to > put my 2 cents to your problem. ;) > > 1. Considering Scott's approach one MINOR note to mention: > command must be sent by the registrar which is > not the sponsoring client. It's only the minor note as according to EPP > standard the restriction of this action to the sponsoring client is only > recommended. However, worth to keep this in mind. > > 2. Your transfer process seems a lot like ours (.PL registry). .PL also > requires the registrant to confirm/authorize the transfer request. > Although the implementation is a bit different from yours proposal: > - the gaining registrar sends request > - the registry sends email with 'confirmation link' to the registrant > - the registrant clicks 'confirmation link' and then the transfer is done > > As you see we decided to skip forwarding token forth-and-back in the > registry/registrar/registrant circle. From the semantic point of view > IMO it's more clear since such round-trip seems redundant. I see some > possible explanations of the 'token' approach... although it's more > question to you... what are your reasons behind having token approach > instead of, for example, direct confirmation? > > Best, > Patrycja > Hi! We, at the .PT Registry, are doing the same way as described in point 2. It seemed to be the best aproach to us. Best Regards, Goncalves Pinto Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8e5Qo004537 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9L8e5uw005152 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8e5sY019376 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9L8e2j18131; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:03 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4358A965.509@knipp.de> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:05 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> In-Reply-To: <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9L8e5sY009126 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 06:08:31PM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: >> the clear disadvantage that every single XML element added as an extension >> of EPP diminishes the benefit of EPP, namely to have a generic interface >> that can be used with a generic toolkit and a generic registrar software. > > I hear this all the time, and it troubles me. The point of the > extension mechanism is that it should be fairly trivial for an > extension to be prepared and made available. Since servers can > announce their capabilities when negotiating connection, what is the > overwhelming barrier? It it just a namespace problem, or are people > discovering that extensible servers or clients are really that tough > to build? > > If it's the _former_ problem, all we need is a namespace registry, > right? If it's the latter, what would make the problem less > difficult to solve? A number of changes were recently proposed by > Scott. Where were the people reporting all these problems when we > were trying to gather reports of experience? (Once again, I'm > probably overlooking something self-evident to everyone else, but > maybe you folks could hit me with the clue stick.) > > A > Hi Andrew, this is a misunderstanding. It is not a problem how EPP negotiates the extensions. Also, _implementing_ extensions on server or client side on the protocol level is no rocket science, rather code monkey work (though the definition of extensions not). It is more a philosophical question. If two registries belief there is a need to add a "language" field to the contacts, this will likely result in two different extensions. Why? Well, the one registry also adds a field for favourite colour to the contact, the other one also adds a field for the favourite car brand. Both won't separate the language field into a common extension that just takes care about the contact's language, which would, on the other hand, be the only correct way from a protocol's perspective. The uncontrolled extensibility of a protocol is the protocol's death. Take, for example, the Whois protocol aka RFC 3912, which has its roots in 1982. This protocol is extremely extensible, but the value of it is negligible. There are likely no two implementations of the protocol by two unrelated entities that are compatible. Those registrars who have implemented ICANN's Registrar Transfer Policy for thin registries know what this means. So from a protocol's perspective, it is the best to nail down everything, and if any extensions are required, to have a standardization body to define them. However, from a broader view, the registry-registrar protocol is only a minor, although not unimportant, part of the registry. Here it looks like that the mountain has to come to the prophet, and not vice versa. Some registries do the move the mountain, some only partially, and others not at all. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8Bq7Q024343 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9L8Bqor024600 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:52 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9L8BqJc019537 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77D726C0A6; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C514426C09C; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id j9L8BoYa568265; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 370E316A9F2; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:11:50 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Michael Young Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051021081150.GA2630@nic.fr> References: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 03:50:04PM -0400, Michael Young wrote a message of 20 lines which said: > If it doesn't suit your purposes then you can certainly volunteer to > improve it. I already said that it is not possible. Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KKJqDS000565 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:19:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KKJqY2028356 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:19:52 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nic-naa.net ([65.99.1.129]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KKJprr026272 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:19:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nic-naa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic-naa.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9JJhCsb057542; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:43:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Message-Id: <200510191943.j9JJhCsb057542@nic-naa.net> To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se, brunner@nic-naa.net Subject: [ietf-provreg] Purpose of the drafts (was: Re: EPP domain:transfer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <57540.1129750992.1@nic-naa.net> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:43:12 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams at a VSAT somewhere (or in Portland Maine) Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are supposed > to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit > your business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. > EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety of > registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard (meaning reuse > of software) and sufficient. I hold myself as responsible for EPP as I hold Scott or anyone else. There is a schema, not a DTD, for a ML - the W3C's XML -- that defines the syntax of a data and control transport protocol. There were features we considered, we agreed upon what we agreed upon, where "we" ment VGRS+NSI, NS, AF, GNR, and RCOM, and not a lot else, and CNO registrars and {s|cc}TLD parties would have been helpful, but they self-excluded, and were excluded, for better or worse. Those who don't take the schema seriously self-inflict. NS did that, even the IESG did that, and a bunch of {s|cc}TLD registries flirt with that. The common source implementation model was tried. It failed for reasons that are unsurprising. Is uniformity at some level, from some universal broker service up to one single registry and registrar (server, client) single-image pair, really important? Probably not. Is proximality useful? Operationally, I think it is. You milage may vary, mine did, Eric Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KJoCW1023325 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:50:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KJoCEp025385 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:50:12 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KJo9D1023881 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:50:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from michael-vpn.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.7.27] helo=DUN911) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESgQS-0001Xj-Nt for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:50:08 -0400 From: "Michael Young" To: Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:50:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcXVdLBCboaN3gerSk6YHUPV7WLpxAAN+uZg Message-Id: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: myoung@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk >What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit >>>your business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. I guess I have a different view than this. I would describe EPP as a decent attempt to provide some consistent behavior for registry clients in the industry. If it doesn't suit your purposes then you can certainly volunteer to improve it. The help would be appreciated. Michael Young Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KIvcKV026820 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:57:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KIvcU2015425 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:57:38 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from sokol.elan.net (sokol.elan.net [216.151.192.200]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KIvb85020053 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:57:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from sokol.elan.net (sokol [127.0.0.1]) by sokol.elan.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9KIvLkZ004000; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:57:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (william@localhost) by sokol.elan.net (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) with ESMTP id j9KIvF7X003992; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:57:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sokol.elan.net: william owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:57:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "william(at)elan.net" To: Andrew Sullivan cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer In-Reply-To: <20051020145846.GB14209@libertyrms.info> Message-ID: References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> <20051020145846.GB14209@libertyrms.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk I haven't really participated here and mostly watched out what so far... But it seems to me if some can not find the current standard acceptable because of some of the built-in rules, perhaps the correct step is to reexamime and decide what are the most basic process for registration common to all and move the rest othe current EPP that is TLD centric into extensions (with capability to allow EPP server to advertise the extensions and sets of rules it supports and clienttelling what set of rules/extensions it would be using). Just something to think about if you ever want to work on next version of this protocol (which could be made quite compatible or very similar for the current set of rules even if some of those would be extensions). On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 02:46:20PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >> What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are >> supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your >> business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. > > I don't see how the last sentence follows from the preceding one. > Standards are supposed to make _everyone's_ life (i.e. considered as > a complete set) simpler. That might mean that some people's lives > actually get slightly harder. That's part of the trade-off in > standards development, it seems to me. > >> EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety >> of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard >> (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. > > A claim of impossibility is pretty strong. It might be that people > don't think it's worth it; but I find it awful hard to believe that > it's impossible. I know that Afilias has at least managed to > accommodate some variety of registration rules inside the standard. > > A Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pcp02996157pcs.stclar01.mi.comcast.net [68.40.28.207]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9KILeDu023849 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:21:40 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:21:38 +0100 From: "Greenberg" To: Subject: So, why go to your local dr@gstore? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KHsQJp005168 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KHsQwP022983 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:26 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from boromix.nask.net.pl (boromix.nask.net.pl [195.187.245.33]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KHsPjx008508 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from boromir.nask.net.pl (boromir [195.187.245.66]) by boromix.nask.net.pl with ESMTP id j9KHsGJN028809 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:16 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.109] ([10.20.32.4]) by boromir.nask.net.pl with ESMTP id j9KHsHJb020820 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4357D9E8.8050801@nask.pl> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:54:48 +0200 From: Patrycja Wegrzynowicz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> In-Reply-To: <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VirusProtection: checked - Found to be clean Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Gerhard Winkler wrote: > For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): > the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and > for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the > gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > (except of receiving notifications of course). Hi Gerhard, Scott's proposal sounds very fine for your case; although I'd like to put my 2 cents to your problem. ;) 1. Considering Scott's approach one MINOR note to mention: command must be sent by the registrar which is not the sponsoring client. It's only the minor note as according to EPP standard the restriction of this action to the sponsoring client is only recommended. However, worth to keep this in mind. 2. Your transfer process seems a lot like ours (.PL registry). .PL also requires the registrant to confirm/authorize the transfer request. Although the implementation is a bit different from yours proposal: - the gaining registrar sends request - the registry sends email with 'confirmation link' to the registrant - the registrant clicks 'confirmation link' and then the transfer is done As you see we decided to skip forwarding token forth-and-back in the registry/registrar/registrant circle. From the semantic point of view IMO it's more clear since such round-trip seems redundant. I see some possible explanations of the 'token' approach... although it's more question to you... what are your reasons behind having token approach instead of, for example, direct confirmation? Best, Patrycja Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KGh8DF002157 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:43:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KGh8Cb012970 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:43:08 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KGh7Wx017199 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:43:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESdVS-0003yc-H7 for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:43:06 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 14BBB13744; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:42:57 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051020164256.GG14209@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 06:08:31PM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > the clear disadvantage that every single XML element added as an extension > of EPP diminishes the benefit of EPP, namely to have a generic interface > that can be used with a generic toolkit and a generic registrar software. I hear this all the time, and it troubles me. The point of the extension mechanism is that it should be fairly trivial for an extension to be prepared and made available. Since servers can announce their capabilities when negotiating connection, what is the overwhelming barrier? It it just a namespace problem, or are people discovering that extensible servers or clients are really that tough to build? If it's the _former_ problem, all we need is a namespace registry, right? If it's the latter, what would make the problem less difficult to solve? A number of changes were recently proposed by Scott. Where were the people reporting all these problems when we were trying to gather reports of experience? (Once again, I'm probably overlooking something self-evident to everyone else, but maybe you folks could hit me with the clue stick.) A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KEwxuh020467 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:58:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KEww23016469 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:58:58 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KEwvVg020310 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:58:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESbse-00009q-WA for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:58:56 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 7B14213744; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:58:47 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051020145846.GB14209@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 02:46:20PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are > supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your > business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. I don't see how the last sentence follows from the preceding one. Standards are supposed to make _everyone's_ life (i.e. considered as a complete set) simpler. That might mean that some people's lives actually get slightly harder. That's part of the trade-off in standards development, it seems to me. > EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety > of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard > (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. A claim of impossibility is pretty strong. It might be that people don't think it's worth it; but I find it awful hard to believe that it's impossible. I know that Afilias has at least managed to accommodate some variety of registration rules inside the standard. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (201-249-225-126.genericrev.cantv.net [201.249.225.126] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9KEdYT6009280 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:39:37 +0200 (MEST) Date: Jue, 20 Oct 2005 10:35:44 +0100 From: "Handler" To: Subject: Why let people know about your intimate life? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KE5nlr024757 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:05:49 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KE5nvJ027029 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:05:49 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KE5mQ8001328 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:05:49 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.139]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KEKj8w030602; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:20:45 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:05:47 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:05:53 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3C13A@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Thread-Index: AcXVd5KF3Nwuce65QZGdOwcT/aLFmgAANMFw From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2005 14:05:47.0458 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E991220:01C5D57F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9KE5nQ8010456 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:46 AM > To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, > Gerhard Winkler wrote > a message of 130 lines which said: > > > Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved still > > using the EPP RFCs? > > What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are > supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your > business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. As I said yesterday, one potential solution is quite easy to specify. > EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety > of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard > (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. Given that there is no standard set of registration rules, the first part of the statement above is disingenuous at best. The complete problem is unsolvable by definition because there is no standard set of registration rules; only parts of the problem can be solved. What's bad is asserting that solutions to smaller parts of the problem are something more than they were designed to be. -Scott- Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KCkXXf001341 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9KCkXMq013193 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:33 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KCkW8n015048 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1120E26C08A for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F26526C00E for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id j9KCkLYa895306 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F3F7C16A9A4; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:46:20 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] Re: EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051020124620.GA6541@nic.fr> References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote a message of 130 lines which said: > Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved still > using the EPP RFCs? What's the purpose of this? Intellectual exercice? Standards are supposed to make life *simpler*. If you need a lot of work to fit your business rules into the standard, then it is not worth it. EPP is a bad standard because it is not possible, giving the variety of registration rules, to have a standard which is both standard (meaning reuse of software) and sufficient. Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pc-32-180-120-200.cm.vtr.net [200.120.180.32]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9K2ZC3p018861 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 04:35:13 +0200 (MEST) Date: mié, 19 oct 2005 23:35:11 +0100 From: "Grossman" To: Subject: Why waste time and extra money? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost ([201.230.111.116]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9K0sKgN002987 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:54:21 +0200 (MEST) Date: mié, 19 oct 2005 19:53:55 +0100 From: "Hoch" To: Subject: Don't expose your intimate life! Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K0mjWi025777 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:48:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9K0mjOZ026803 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:48:45 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K0mhP5007033 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:48:44 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K0mTnX091707; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:48:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4356CA01.4050604@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> <4356CA01.4050604@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:48:51 -0400 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Cc: Edward Lewis , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk At 0:34 +0200 10/20/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >Anyhow, in my personal retrospective, my question is whether the >goal of EPP is >an illusion. That is a good point. But for the sake of technical curiosity, knowing the limits of a protocol's usefulness is as important as knowing how to extend a protocol. >The "Extensible" in EPP is from that point of view already a contradiction. >If it is not limited to extensions also defined by the IETF, it gives freedom >to the registries on the one hand, but destroys the benefits of the protocol >on the other hand. Anyone is free to implement extensions. The crucial element though is to get the extension's schema recognized so that clients can make use of the extension. (Of course - only the clients that need it.) I hope that it is not the IETF that defines extensions, but rather that the IETF reviews the extensions documented and voluntarily submitted for review. Scott's more recent extensions were not mandated into being by the IETF. >(well, execpt for the wrong statement about idempotency...) I agree(d) with you on that one, even if I didn't post anything about that. When the WG reviewed the idempotency, no one saw the client vs. client interactions. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JMZ0jo025015 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:35:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JMZ0Dc011101 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:35:00 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JMYx8I004844 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:34:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9JMYuj29191; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:34:57 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4356CA01.4050604@knipp.de> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:34:41 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Lewis CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Edward Lewis wrote: > > No reason to be sorry for that feeling. But the question is - in what > way did the discouragement of the ccTLDs become a self-fulfilling prophecy? > > (One disclaimer - I am going to label camps as ccTLD and gTLD. Take > this as a broad brush. In particular, my current employer is both a > ccTLD and a gTLD. The camps aren't so neatly distinct.) > > As one of the chairs of the group, I did my best to get wide review. (I > was hampered by a limited budget for this as my then employer is not any > kind of a stakeholder in the process.) Approaching some ccTLDs when I > could get out, I was told that input was too expensive. The only > organizations that expended energy were those with a gTLD mission. > > It wasn't until I got one ccTLD person to speak up about the host-less > issue that the specification softened on this. It wasn't a matter of > getting a voice of a ccTLD to do this, it was a matter of trying to > figure out what middle ground was available, i.e., how to bend the work > to suit all comers. There were rumors floating that the host-less > approach was in conflict with EPP, but until someone clearly said why > and was able to sketch a solution, rumors were just that. (Engineers > don't deal in rumor.) > > When the WG began in 2001, nearly all of the voices were gTLD fed. > ccTLDs didn't pay much attention as the first blocks of concrete set. > Over time EPP got wider review which translates into rethinking early > decisions. Any feelings of "let's not do this again" by the incumbents > towards the newcomers is just human nature. It will continue to be this > way until the Internet serves the entire planet. Such inertia needs to > be fought, with even more energy by the newer newcomers or else the > entire effort will collapse into fragmented bickering. > > My words aren't about "anyone vs. the Verisign model," although I can > understand that sentiment. This is about trying to make the IETF work. > > What can be done? If you were to submit a draft that gives engineering > details of what is wrong with EPP for your case, perhaps there is a way > to define EPP2 that is even more general. Then again, maybe not - TV > has PAL and NTSC formats. The people that "suffer" are those running > the clients. > Hi Edward, I cannot say who's fault it is. I think I have brought up some valid reasons for an existing registry with a proprietary structure not being interested in EPP. Beyond that, I can only speculate, like that they didn't want to participate because of the major role of Verisign. To get the real causes, you have to ask the registries themselves. In addition, I don't know what efforts the heads of the WG made to integrate the ccTLDs into the development process. Anyhow, in my personal retrospective, my question is whether the goal of EPP is an illusion. To be honest, I have not a big insight in the thinking of the ccTLDs, but I think they have their reasons for not wanting to become a "generic" registry, distiguishable from other registries only by the TLD label. However, the goal of a protocol is to unify, to harmonize, to narrow things to the essence. The "Extensible" in EPP is from that point of view already a contradiction. If it is not limited to extensions also defined by the IETF, it gives freedom to the registries on the one hand, but destroys the benefits of the protocol on the other hand. Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to devaluate Scott's and all others' work (well, execpt for the wrong statement about idempotency...), and EPP as it is has definitely its positive sides, but my conclusion is that the final goal cannot be reached. Therefore I am not a big proponent of the EPP idea. As you asked, what can be done, there are indeed areas which I would like to have more extensibility or extensiblity at all: - the command types, as mentioned - the error codes - the contact roles in domains - the status values of contacts, hosts and domains But taking into account what I have said above, the question is whether an EPP2 (instead of an EPP1.x that just fixes problems that have been discussed recently) really makes sense. And of course, one can solve the non-extensibility of these elements by the current extension mechanism. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHjK4W001059 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JHjKxh002504 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:20 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nohope.patoche.org ([62.160.23.78]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHjJWh018327 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nohope.patoche.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j9JHjIKA021472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:19 +0200 Received: (from patrick@localhost) by nohope.patoche.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9JHjIFX021470; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:18 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:45:18 +0200 From: Patrick Mevzek To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Message-ID: <20051019174518.GA20140@nohope.patoche.org> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> X-PGP-KeyID: A241FB6B X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9DA9 5054 7A5D 03FC A9AD 9AFF 1371 9F06 A241 FB6B X-Request-PGP: http://www.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xA241FB6B Organization: Dot And Co User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Klaus Malorny 2005-10-18 18:31 > while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still has a > slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing XML (i.e. the > "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required to be changed due > to the introduction of new commands. I have the feeling that quite a lot of > new registrars that download open source EPP implementations will have to > learn the hard way that EPP is not always EPP. That way, it could be > questionable whether EURid's protocol even deserves the name "EPP" at all. These ``small'' differences can easily be hidden in the client, provided that it is flexible enough. Thus, for me, they do not show that there are problems in EPP. Just that people have different needs, and that it is impossible to find a solution that works for anyone. It creates a greater burden on registrar/client software, but, in my view, nothing impossible to achieve. At least, this is the kind of view I try to have when working on my own implementation (which, BTW will soon fully support EURid and, at the same time, any other EPP registry). Maybe now that more people are aware of EPP, even if they finally do not decide to use it for whatever reasons, they can participate even more towards the next iteration, and this is why I totally agree with the idea of putting in written what problems/differences they see, to make sure it will taken into account. -- Patrick Mevzek Dot and Co Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHH9fF002342 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:17:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JHH81B004495 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:17:08 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from peregrine.verisign.com (peregrine.verisign.com [216.168.239.74]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHH71p007133 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:17:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JHTcYb009523; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:29:38 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:17:05 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3BFEA@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Thread-Index: AcXUyq1eZOAx/IHrRty4yqJOQlZDEQAAm6Bg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 17:17:05.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED98FE40:01C5D4D0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JHH81p011501 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM > To: Edward Lewis > Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) [snip] > Sorry to say that, but in the beginning of the provreg > working group Scott and > others of the gTLD faction were just too confined to the > Verisign model and > fully ignored the ccTLDs, their needs and their models. IMHO > this discouraged > many ccTLDs from participating. EPP is indeed "extensible", > but in some aspects > just not at all. I still really resent statements like this because no one "fully ignored" anybody's needs. I know that I and others took great pains to try to boil down the defined structures to essential minimums as issues were brought to the group's attention, pushing as much TLD-specific stuff as possible off for local definition. That means that "local policy" things needed by individual registries are up to them to specify. I firmly believe that any attempt to specify an "out of the box" domain registration protocol that included all of the features needed by every TLD registry would have failed miserably. -Scott- Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGVB4I006158 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:31:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JGVBLg010733 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:31:11 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGV91C020888 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:31:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.31.32.76] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGUsF0088742; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:30:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:30:40 -0400 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Cc: Edward Lewis , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk At 18:08 +0200 10/19/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: I have no qualms with anyone implementing their own system, even if there is a so-called standard approach out there. (Contempt-of-standards is not a crime.) However, doing this is what will kill off the IETF. The IETF has been, is, and can be a valuable resource to the developers of the Internet so long as we fight decay of it's function. >Sorry to say that, but in the beginning of the provreg working group Scott and >others of the gTLD faction were just too confined to the Verisign model and >fully ignored the ccTLDs, their needs and their models. IMHO this discouraged >many ccTLDs from participating. EPP is indeed "extensible", but in >some aspects >just not at all. No reason to be sorry for that feeling. But the question is - in what way did the discouragement of the ccTLDs become a self-fulfilling prophecy? (One disclaimer - I am going to label camps as ccTLD and gTLD. Take this as a broad brush. In particular, my current employer is both a ccTLD and a gTLD. The camps aren't so neatly distinct.) As one of the chairs of the group, I did my best to get wide review. (I was hampered by a limited budget for this as my then employer is not any kind of a stakeholder in the process.) Approaching some ccTLDs when I could get out, I was told that input was too expensive. The only organizations that expended energy were those with a gTLD mission. It wasn't until I got one ccTLD person to speak up about the host-less issue that the specification softened on this. It wasn't a matter of getting a voice of a ccTLD to do this, it was a matter of trying to figure out what middle ground was available, i.e., how to bend the work to suit all comers. There were rumors floating that the host-less approach was in conflict with EPP, but until someone clearly said why and was able to sketch a solution, rumors were just that. (Engineers don't deal in rumor.) When the WG began in 2001, nearly all of the voices were gTLD fed. ccTLDs didn't pay much attention as the first blocks of concrete set. Over time EPP got wider review which translates into rethinking early decisions. Any feelings of "let's not do this again" by the incumbents towards the newcomers is just human nature. It will continue to be this way until the Internet serves the entire planet. Such inertia needs to be fought, with even more energy by the newer newcomers or else the entire effort will collapse into fragmented bickering. My words aren't about "anyone vs. the Verisign model," although I can understand that sentiment. This is about trying to make the IETF work. What can be done? If you were to submit a draft that gives engineering details of what is wrong with EPP for your case, perhaps there is a way to define EPP2 that is even more general. Then again, maybe not - TV has PAL and NTSC formats. The people that "suffer" are those running the clients. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGDITc001097 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JGDIfM020504 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:18 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JGDHgj001190 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9JGDGj27817; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:16 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4356709A.8090702@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:14 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: janusz CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> <43565112.9080500@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <43565112.9080500@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JGDIgj005774 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk janusz wrote: > Klaus Malorny wrote: > >> >> On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create >> additional commands via the second level "" element, >> one should rethink the fixed command set of the "commandType" schema >> type when an update of EPP is considered. Having an additional command >> as an extension outside of the "" element, it is not clear >> that the typical command/response behaviour shall apply to this >> command as well. >> >> > Klaus, > if "commandType" schema type was extended as you are proposing then EPP > protocol would have more than one way of creating new EPP commands. What > should be then the policy for protocol implementers for choosing one way > over the other? Do you have any particular criteria in mind? > > Janusz > Hi Janusz, well, as I said, that they behave like other commands, i.e. that the answer is a element with the known structure. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JG8kVb022479 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JG8k55000284 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:46 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JG8jw6012433 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9JG8Yj27093; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:34 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <43566F7F.9010303@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:08:31 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Lewis CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JG8jw6016296 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Edward Lewis wrote: > At 18:01 +0200 10/18/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: > >> while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still >> has a slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing >> XML (i.e. the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required >> to be changed due to ... > > What bothers me is that there is a second instance of a registry, in > this other case, avoiding EPP and instead building their own protocol. > I am not making a judgement call on the wisdom of prefering a home grown > effort over a standard, but rather am concerned that the standard wasn't > "good" enough for them. > > See: > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-51/presentations/pdf/ripe51-enum-epp.pdf > > > The talk is somewhat mistitled in the agenda, why DENIC didn't use EPP > for ENUM. The reason is simply that DENIC doesn't use EPP for > anything. (;)) From slide 7 onwards though is the interesting stuff - > why DENIC doesn't use EPP for anything. > > This is a cry for "use the IETF for what it is for." I would hope to > see a detailed critique outlining why EPP is failing to meet the needs > of the community come in, and not a feeling that EPP should be shunned. > The definition of EPP by the IETF is not to be taken as a royal edict. > It should be the collective wit and wisdom of us wise guys. Hi Edward, being a member of the technical advisory committee of DENIC, I strongly supported the decision of DENIC to implement its own protocol and not EPP, and I can explain why. At the time the decision was made, EPP was still in the draft state, and the underlying model of EPP was just incompatible with the DENIC model, most notably the inability to deal with a "hostless" structure. In following drafts EPP became more flexible regarding this (via the hostAttr element). However, still today there are quite a lot differences in the models, starting at additional contact fields, multiple registrant contacts per domain, different transfer mechanisms and requirements and special commands, like the transit or changeholder commands. A possible EPP solution would be either to adopt the generic EPP model or to build a large set of extensions for EPP to allow the representation of DENIC's model as EPP. The first case would not only have had a large impact to DENIC itself, but to all DENIC registrars as well. Large amounts of money would have been burnt for the developments at DENIC and the registrars, and the transition from the DENIC model to the EPP model would not have been an easy one. The other solution would have had the clear disadvantage that every single XML element added as an extension of EPP diminishes the benefit of EPP, namely to have a generic interface that can be used with a generic toolkit and a generic registrar software. Any solution in-between merely inherits the disadvantages and not the advantages of both solutions. Sorry to say that, but in the beginning of the provreg working group Scott and others of the gTLD faction were just too confined to the Verisign model and fully ignored the ccTLDs, their needs and their models. IMHO this discouraged many ccTLDs from participating. EPP is indeed "extensible", but in some aspects just not at all. While I think it is reasonable that existing registries go their own way in dealing with registry protocols for their own benefit and the benefit of their registrars and customers, I believe that new registries should adopt EPP with as few extensions as possible and with a registry model as compatible as possible, even though I do not consider myself as a big friend of EPP. Therefore I am disappointed that EURid did not manage to provide a cleaner EPP implementation within two years or so, but using the very same concepts of the .be registry. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JFxwjY011696 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:59:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JFxwGw018871 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:59:58 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JFxubJ003087 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:59:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESGM6-0006Vh-VZ for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:59:54 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id E42BC13744; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:59:45 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019155945.GD24849@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 04:57:13PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote: > The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process > (except of receiving notifications of course). Ah, I did miss something, then, yes. Well, you could do it a different way. Scott's suggestion of using an command will work with the proposed updates to the protocol; so that's one answer (it'd violate the current RFC, but everyone seems to agree that the restrictions on objects in pending* status are too tight, so Scott submitted some proposed changes). A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JF2p55004829 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:02:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JF2pRr007702 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:02:51 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx1.univie.ac.at (mx1.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.28]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JF2nMB021793 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:02:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.249.133]) by mx1.univie.ac.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9JEvD8o058777; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:57:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from gw@localhost) by snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9JEvDF210406; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:57:13 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:57:13 +0200 From: Gerhard Winkler To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019165712.A210530@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info>; from Andrew Sullivan on Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:34:34AM -0400 X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: mx9.univie.ac.at 4248; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:34:34AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote: > > [. . .] > > For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. > > Therefore we have designed a special process: > > - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer > > - the registry sends a token to the registrant > > - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar > > - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in > > combination with the domain transfer information > > > > Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer > > (token request and transaction itself). > > > > The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't > > find a nice solution for the two step transfer. > > I think you ought to be able to do this. As far as I know, all > ICANN-regulated registries do a two-step transfer. When a transfer > request comes in, we return 1001 ("Command completed successfully; > action pending"). The transfer may be explicitly acknowledged with > an "op" attribute set to "approve" or "reject". It seems to me that > what you need is an extension for the "approve" case, which can > contain the token from the registrant (that would prove that the > losing registrar has been contacted by the registrant, who has > approved the transfer). Maybe I'm overlooking something in the rest > of your explanation? For clarification (maybe I was too short in my explanation): the token, generated by the registry, is sent to the registrant, and for confirmation the registrant has to send the token to the gaining registrar (who has initiated the transfer also). The losing registrar doesn't play any role in our transfer process (except of receiving notifications of course). We have also considered to "misuse" the "approve", but from my understanding it should be used by the losing registrar only. I think a generic EPP client would run into some confusion, using the "approve" in two different ways. -Gerhard -- Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at Vienna University Computer Center | Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDtHO0016561 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:55:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDtHmi014430 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:55:17 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDtF7S000559 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:55:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dev3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.40] helo=ca.afilias.info) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESEPT-0002Ic-2A; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:55:15 -0400 Message-ID: <43565112.9080500@ca.afilias.info> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:58:42 -0400 From: janusz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040413 Debian/1.6-5 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Klaus Malorny CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: janusz@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Klaus Malorny wrote: > > On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create > additional commands via the second level "" element, > one should rethink the fixed command set of the "commandType" schema > type when an update of EPP is considered. Having an additional command > as an extension outside of the "" element, it is not clear > that the typical command/response behaviour shall apply to this > command as well. > > Klaus, if "commandType" schema type was extended as you are proposing then EPP protocol would have more than one way of creating new EPP commands. What should be then the policy for protocol implementers for choosing one way over the other? Do you have any particular criteria in mind? Janusz Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDoZmU001295 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:50:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDoZfW014801 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:50:35 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDoXBn003598 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:50:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JE5EqF012030; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:05:14 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:50:30 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: [ietf-provreg] RE: EPP domain:transfer Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:50:40 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07F3BEFF@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: EPP domain:transfer Thread-Index: AcXUr3h2p1xtJocYQXKlSlIt9TFPQgAAWhsg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Gerhard Winkler" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 13:50:30.0276 (UTC) FILETIME=[11807440:01C5D4B4] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9JDoYBn029863 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk You can easily define an authInfo extension and a domain extension to trigger the initial transfer request and token delivery to the registrant. That is, extend the command to add features (like maybe a new "transferRequested" status value) to support a token delivery request. Then the is used as currently defined to return the token in the . Moving the transfer stuff out of the core is NOT a good idea. It would mean having to replicate all of the transfer stuff in the contact mapping as well. Contact me off-list if this isn't clear enough. I can probably kludge up some examples in a few minutes if that would help. -Scott- > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerhard Winkler [mailto:gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at] > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:17 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott; ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: EPP domain:transfer > > > Hi Scott et al., > > in .AT we are currently discussing how different business > processes can > be mapped on standard EPP. We didn't encounter many problems and > most of our specialities can be solved with extensions. > > One of the open things is the domain:transfer behavior. We > have a special > process for this (see below) which cannot be mapped to the standard. > > > For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. > Therefore we have designed a special process: > - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer > - the registry sends a token to the registrant > - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar > - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in > combination with the domain transfer information > > Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer > (token request and transaction itself). > > The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't > find a nice solution for the two step transfer. > The problem is that transfer op-codes are defined in epp core > (epp1.0) instead of domain-1.0. > domain-1.0 doesn't know op-codes. > > > epp-1.0 says: > > > > > > use="required"/> > > > and: > > > > > > > > > > > > > domain-1.0 says: > > > > > > minOccurs="0"/> > minOccurs="0"/> > > > > > > Due to this fact its impossible to extend the transfer behavior to our > needs. Trying to modify domain-1.0 only doesn't help very > much and even > epp-1.0 cannot be left untouched. > > > From our point of view there are two possible solutions for that: > > The first one is to define a additional op-code "transfer op=init" > within epp-1.0. > This is not very nice because it doesn't solve the problem of > inflexibility > of the transfer definition in epp-1.0. > And - yes - it doesn't have very much to do with the transfer concept > mentioned in the RFC. > > > The second solution would be the complete move of the > transfer definition > to the domain-1.0 document. > > something like this: > > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" > xsi:schemaLocation="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0 > epp-1.0.xsd"> > > > xmlns:domain="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0" > xsi:schemaLocation="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0 > domain-1.0.xsd"> > example.com > ... > > > This approach would give much more flexibility for different > transfer scenarios, as they could be freely implemented within object > namespaces. > > > Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved > still using the EPP RFCs? > > I wonder if there are other registries which encountered > problems due to the > very hard definition of the transfer. > > > > regards, > Gerhard > > > > -- > Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: > gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at > Vienna University Computer Center | > Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 > A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 > > Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDYjj9020513 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:34:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDYjtb007341 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:34:45 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDYidD001074 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:34:44 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ESE5b-0001h2-Ko for ietf-provreg@cafax.se; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:34:43 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id A879E13744; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:34:34 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019133433.GC24849@libertyrms.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , ietf-provreg@cafax.se References: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:16:40PM +0200, Gerhard Winkler wrote: [. . .] > For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. > Therefore we have designed a special process: > - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer > - the registry sends a token to the registrant > - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar > - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in > combination with the domain transfer information > > Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer > (token request and transaction itself). > > The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't > find a nice solution for the two step transfer. I think you ought to be able to do this. As far as I know, all ICANN-regulated registries do a two-step transfer. When a transfer request comes in, we return 1001 ("Command completed successfully; action pending"). The transfer may be explicitly acknowledged with an "op" attribute set to "approve" or "reject". It seems to me that what you need is an extension for the "approve" case, which can contain the token from the registrant (that would prove that the losing registrar has been contacted by the registrant, who has approved the transfer). Maybe I'm overlooking something in the rest of your explanation? A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDMsDP003440 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:22:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDMsWH011312 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:22:54 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDMqL0027149 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:22:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.31.32.76] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDMcL9087941; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:22:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:22:56 -0400 To: Klaus Malorny From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk At 18:01 +0200 10/18/05, Klaus Malorny wrote: >while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still >has a slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing >XML (i.e. the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was >required to be changed due to ... What bothers me is that there is a second instance of a registry, in this other case, avoiding EPP and instead building their own protocol. I am not making a judgement call on the wisdom of prefering a home grown effort over a standard, but rather am concerned that the standard wasn't "good" enough for them. See: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-51/presentations/pdf/ripe51-enum-epp.pdf The talk is somewhat mistitled in the agenda, why DENIC didn't use EPP for ENUM. The reason is simply that DENIC doesn't use EPP for anything. (;)) From slide 7 onwards though is the interesting stuff - why DENIC doesn't use EPP for anything. This is a cry for "use the IETF for what it is for." I would hope to see a detailed critique outlining why EPP is failing to meet the needs of the community come in, and not a feeling that EPP should be shunned. The definition of EPP by the IETF is not to be taken as a royal edict. It should be the collective wit and wisdom of us wise guys. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar True story: Only a routing "expert" would fly London->Minneapolis->Dallas->Minneapolis to get home from a conference. (Cities changed to protect his identity.) Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDHVAW001952 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:17:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JDHUms029999 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:17:30 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from mx3.univie.ac.at (mx2.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.34]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JDHUIV007085 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:17:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.249.133]) by mx3.univie.ac.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9JDGf4t057591; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:16:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from gw@localhost) by snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6) id j9JDGeG145070; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:16:40 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:16:40 +0200 From: Gerhard Winkler To: shollenbeck@verisign.com, ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] EPP domain:transfer Message-ID: <20051019151640.A168448@snoopy.cc.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: mx9.univie.ac.at 4248; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hi Scott et al., in .AT we are currently discussing how different business processes can be mapped on standard EPP. We didn't encounter many problems and most of our specialities can be solved with extensions. One of the open things is the domain:transfer behavior. We have a special process for this (see below) which cannot be mapped to the standard. For a domain transfer in .AT we need authorization of the registrant. Therefore we have designed a special process: - the registrar has to initiate a domain transfer - the registry sends a token to the registrant - the registrant has to forward this token to the registrar - the registrar has to send the token back to the registry in combination with the domain transfer information Due to this process we need two steps for the domain transfer (token request and transaction itself). The token can be defined with EPP extensions easily. But we couldn't find a nice solution for the two step transfer. The problem is that transfer op-codes are defined in epp core (epp1.0) instead of domain-1.0. domain-1.0 doesn't know op-codes. epp-1.0 says: and: domain-1.0 says: Due to this fact its impossible to extend the transfer behavior to our needs. Trying to modify domain-1.0 only doesn't help very much and even epp-1.0 cannot be left untouched. >From our point of view there are two possible solutions for that: The first one is to define a additional op-code "transfer op=init" within epp-1.0. This is not very nice because it doesn't solve the problem of inflexibility of the transfer definition in epp-1.0. And - yes - it doesn't have very much to do with the transfer concept mentioned in the RFC. The second solution would be the complete move of the transfer definition to the domain-1.0 document. something like this: example.com ... This approach would give much more flexibility for different transfer scenarios, as they could be freely implemented within object namespaces. Are there any ideas how this transfer problem could be solved still using the EPP RFCs? I wonder if there are other registries which encountered problems due to the very hard definition of the transfer. regards, Gerhard -- Gerhard Winkler | E-Mail: gerhard.winkler@univie.ac.at Vienna University Computer Center | Universitaetsstrasse 7 | Tel: +43 1 4277 14035 A-1010 Vienna, Austria | Fax: +43 1 4277 9140 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JCAhOj005014 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:43 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9JCAgj1007540 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:42 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from smtp.dns.be (smtp.dns.be [212.190.80.118]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9JCAfLJ002160 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (smtp-new.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7963C125334 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.dns.be ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20053-06 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.192.9] (mortimer.dns.be [192.168.192.9]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3904B125322 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <435637BF.9090809@dns.be> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:10:39 +0200 From: maarten User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2-1.4.1.centos4 (X11/20050323) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> <43551C42.800@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dns.be Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Klaus Malorny wrote: > Hi all, > > while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still > has a slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing > XML (i.e. the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required > to be changed due to the introduction of new commands. I have the > feeling that quite a lot of new registrars that download open source > EPP implementations will have to learn the hard way that EPP is not > always EPP. That way, it could be questionable whether EURid's > protocol even deserves the name "EPP" at all. > I agree that we should have used Protocol Extension for adding our extra commands, but it's probably a bit late for that. > On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create > additional commands via the second level "" element, > one should rethink the fixed command set of the "commandType" schema > type when an update of EPP is considered. Having an additional command > as an extension outside of the "" element, it is not clear > that the typical command/response behaviour shall apply to this > command as well. How about adding an empty element to the choice in commandType for all the extra commands that one wants to define: epp11 2010-10-10T10:10:10.0Z ... abc-456 This way it would be clear that the typical command/response behaviour applies. Maarten Bosteels DNS BE Developer Return-Path: Received: from localhost ([221.141.229.123]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9J8cBUR020005 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:38:12 +0200 (MEST) Date: ¼ö, 19 10 2005 17:38:09 +0100 From: "Goldberg" To: Subject: So, why go to your local dr@gstore? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9IG1FsL029647 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j9IG1FRg002431 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:15 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9IG1BA0007629 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j9IG1Bj04441; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:11 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <43551C42.800@knipp.de> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:01:06 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051005) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> In-Reply-To: <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j9IG1FA0012217 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk maarten wrote: > Hi all, > > The prefix problem is actually a bug in our documentation: no specific > prefixes are required. > Concerning the IETF namespace URI's : we will use our own URI's for all > the schemas that we have modified. > > Maarten Bosteels > software developer DNS Belgium > Hi all, while EURid has updated their specs in a thankworthy way, this still has a slightly bad aftertaste, as even the namespace of the framing XML (i.e. the "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:epp-1.0" namespace) was required to be changed due to the introduction of new commands. I have the feeling that quite a lot of new registrars that download open source EPP implementations will have to learn the hard way that EPP is not always EPP. That way, it could be questionable whether EURid's protocol even deserves the name "EPP" at all. On the other hand, while EPP does provide a legal means to create additional commands via the second level "" element, one should rethink the fixed command set of the "commandType" schema type when an update of EPP is considered. Having an additional command as an extension outside of the "" element, it is not clear that the typical command/response behaviour shall apply to this command as well. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from 192.71.228.17 ([61.73.12.145]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9I65cxa029128; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:05:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from q0LH@localhost by u9X.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:04:25 -0400 Message-ID: <582Uw4rqGCK05EvSf9Dwegf@mmtcnet.com> From: "Wendy Broussard" Reply-To: "Wendy Broussard" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Adobe, Windows Products available for Download Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:00:25 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: CathyBrennan@my.loves.ne.jp Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--FElF6aV6nL19CUvOywv" b405 ----FElF6aV6nL19CUvOywv Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 4
    Opt-in Email Special Offer &n= bsp;   unsubscribe me=

    SEARCH

    TOP 10 NEW TITLES

    = 3<= td width=3D4>    

     = ON SALE NOW!

     1 Office Pro Edition 2003
     2<= a href=3Dhttp://infsoftware.net/?T> Windows XP Pro
      Adobe Creative Suite Premium
    =  4 Systemworks Pro 2004 Edition
    5 Flash MX 2004
    6= Corel Painter 8
    7= Adobe Acrobat 6.0
    8 Windows 2003 Server
     9 = Alias Maya 6.0 Wavefront
     10 Adobe Premiere
      See more by this manufacturer<= /font>
     &nbs= p; Microsoft
       A= pple Software
     <= /td> Customers also bought
       these o= ther items...



    		Microsoft Office Professional= Edition *2003*
    Microsoft
    Choose:
     <= /td>
    <= img height=3D182 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000AZJVC.01._SC= LZZZZZZZ_.jpg width=3D142 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image> <= span class=3Dsmall>
    List Price:$8= 99.00
    Price:<= /td>$69.99<= /td>
    You Save:$830.01 (92= %)



    Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: ISe229
    M= edia: CD-ROM / Download

    System requirements  |  Accessories  |  Other Versions

    Features:<= /font>

    • Analyze and manage business information using Access databases
    • Exchange data with other systems using= enhanced XML technology
    • Con= trol information sharing rules with enhanced IRM technology
      • <= li class=3Dsmall>Easy-to-use wizards to create e-mail newsl= etters and printed marketing materials
    • More than 20 preformatted business reports
    Sales Rank: #1
    Shipping= : International/US or via instant download
    Date Coupon Expires:= May 30th, 2005
    Average Customer Revi= ew: 3D"5 Based on 1,768 reviews. Write a review.
    <= td width=3D100% height=3D233>Microsoft Windows XP Professi= onal or Longhorn Edition
    Microsoft
    Choose:
     

    List Price:$279.00
    Price:$49.99
    You Save:$229.01 (85%)



    = Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: ISe229
    Media: CD-ROM / Download

    System requirements  |&= nbsp; Accessories  |  Other Versions

    Features:

    • Designed for businesses of all sizes
    • Manage digital pictures, music, video, DVDs, = and more
    • More security with = the ability to encrypt files and folders
    • Built-in voice, video, and instant messaging support <= /li>
    • Integration with Windows servers and= management solutions

    Sales Rank= : #2
    Shipping: International/US or via instant= download
    Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
    Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 868 reviews= Write a review.

    Adobe Creative Suite Premium
    Adobe
    Cho= ose:
     

    List Price: $1149.00
    Price:$99.99
    You Save:$849.01 (90%)



    Availability: Available for IN= STANT download!
    Coupon Code: ISe229
    Media: CD-ROM / = Download

    System requirements  |  Accessories  |  O= ther Versions

    Features:

    • An integrated = design environment featuring the industry's foremost design tools
    • In-depth tips, expert tricks, an= d comprehensive design resources
    • Intuitive file finding, smooth workflow, and common interface and too= lset
    • Single installer--contr= ol what you install and when you install it
    • Cross-media publishing--create content for both print and = the Web

    Sales Rank: #= 3
    Shipping: International/US or via instant downlo= ad
    Date Coupon Expires: May 30th, 2005
    Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 498 reviews. Write a review.
    <= /p>

    ----FElF6aV6nL19CUvOywv-- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (201-27-160-110.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.27.160.110]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9I1j1ge015543 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:45:02 +0200 (MEST) Date: seg, 17 out 2005 23:45:03 +0100 From: "Heck" To: Subject: Don't expose your intimate life! Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (dsl.dynamic8597183133.ttnet.net.tr [85.97.183.133] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9GNU0wG005810 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:30:01 +0200 (MEST) Date: Pzt, 17 Eki 2005 02:29:37 +0100 From: "Freud" To: Subject: So, why go to your local dr@gstore? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost ([210.107.72.64]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9GBIA7D009359 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:18:11 +0200 (MEST) Date: ÀÏ, 16 10 2005 20:18:08 +0100 From: "Glucksman" To: Subject: Why waste time and extra money? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (201-11-71-100.fnsce202.dial.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.11.71.100] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9F32xxV007253 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 05:03:04 +0200 (MEST) Date: sáb, 15 out 2005 00:02:59 +0100 From: "Halperin" To: Subject: Why let people know about your intimate life? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (225-32.81-161.gts.tkb.net.pl [81.161.225.32]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9EJBnUv010110 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:11:50 +0200 (MEST) Date: Pt, 14 pa 2005 21:11:49 +0100 From: "Glazer" To: Subject: Don't expose your intimate life! Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from pcp04355764pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net (pcp04355764pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net [68.45.111.80]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9E4QSXs016024 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:26:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from 2e4@localhost by vGbX.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:45:18 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Linda Epps" Reply-To: "Linda Epps" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Out of this WoRLD $aving$ on all Symantec titles Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:43:18 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: PaulaOverton@derapage-pieces-auto.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--Sd5J5e8Q5szt8bURB90e" gDo ----Sd5J5e8Q5szt8bURB90e Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable w
    Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
    SEARCH

    =

    TOP 10 NEW TITLES

      

     = ON SALE NOW!

     1 = Office Pro 2003
     2 Ad= obe Photoshop 9.0
     3 Wi= ndows XP Pro
     4 Adobe= Acrobat 7 Pro
     5 Flash= MX 2004
     6 Corel Dr= aw 12
     7 Norton Antiv= irus 2005
     <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>8 Windows= 2003 Server
     9 Alias= Maya 6 Wavefrt
     10 = Adobe Illustrator 11
      See more by this manufacturer
       Microsoft
      = Symantec
       Adobe
      Custom= ers also bought
      these other items...

    Micro= soft Office Professional Edition *2003*
    Microsoft

    =
    Choose:
     

    You Save:



    Availability: Available for INSTANT down= load!
    Coupon Code: xjld4
     

    Sales Rank: #1
    System requirements  |  Other Versions
    Date= Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
    Av= erage Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 143651 reviews. Write a review.

    <= table border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 style=3D"border-collapse:= collapse" bordercolor=3D#111111 width=3D100% id=3DAutoNumber1 height=3D55= >
    List Price:$499.00
    Price:$69.99
    $429.01 (86%)

    Adobe Photoshop CS2 V= 9.0
    Adobe<= /a>

    Choose:=
     

    =
    List Price:$599.00
    Price:= $69.99
    You Save:$529.01 (90%)



    Av= ailability: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: 5i= 9UhYltz
     

    Sales Rank: #2 System re= quirements  |  Other Vers= ions
    Date Coupon Expires: August = 31st, 2005
    Average Customer Review: Based on 1489 reviews. Write a r= eview.

    Microsoft Windows XP Professional or L= onghorn Edition
    Microsoft<= br>

    <= td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap>
    Choose:
     

    		 List Price:$279.00
    Price:$49.99
    You Save= :$229.01 (85%)



    Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
    <= b>Coupon Code: ym1LHK
     

    Sa= les Rank: #3
    System requirements      |  Other Versions
    Date Coupon Ex= pires: August 31st, 2005
    Average Cust= omer Review:3D"5 Based on 18938 reviews. Write a review.

    Adobe Acrobat Pro= fessional V 7.0
    Adobe
    <= /p>
    Choose:<= td noWrap width=3D38> 

    List Price:$499.00
    Price:$69.99
    You Save:$429.01 (85%)



    A= vailability: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: W= GbQQ
     

    Sales Rank: #4
    System requi= rements      |  Other Version= s
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31s= t, 2005
    Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 12654 reviews. Write a revi= ew.

    <= /td>
    ----Sd5J5e8Q5szt8bURB90e-- Return-Path: Received: from 69-175-65-234.chvlva.adelphia.net (69-175-65-234.chvlva.adelphia.net [69.175.65.234]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9E4P0g0011897 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:25:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: from 2e4@localhost by vGbX.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:45:18 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Linda Epps" Reply-To: "Linda Epps" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Out of this WoRLD $aving$ on all Symantec titles Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:43:18 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: PaulaOverton@derapage-pieces-auto.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--Sd5J5e8Q5szt8bURB90e" gDo ----Sd5J5e8Q5szt8bURB90e Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable w
    Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
    SEARCH

    =

    TOP 10 NEW TITLES

      

     = ON SALE NOW!

     1 = Office Pro 2003
     2 Ad= obe Photoshop 9.0
     3 Wi= ndows XP Pro
     4 Adobe= Acrobat 7 Pro
     5 Flash= MX 2004
     6 Corel Dr= aw 12
     7 Norton Antiv= irus 2005
     <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>8 Windows= 2003 Server
     9 Alias= Maya 6 Wavefrt
     10 = Adobe Illustrator 11
      See more by this manufacturer
       Microsoft
      = Symantec
       Adobe
      Custom= ers also bought
      these other items...

    Micro= soft Office Professional Edition *2003*
    Microsoft

    =
    Choose:
     

    You Save:



    Availability: Available for INSTANT down= load!
    Coupon Code: xjld4
     

    Sales Rank: #1
    System requirements  |  Other Versions
    Date= Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
    Av= erage Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 143651 reviews. Write a review.

    <= table border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 style=3D"border-collapse:= collapse" bordercolor=3D#111111 width=3D100% id=3DAutoNumber1 height=3D55= >
    List Price:$499.00
    Price:$69.99
    $429.01 (86%)

    Adobe Photoshop CS2 V= 9.0
    Adobe<= /a>

    Choose:=
     

    =
    List Price:$599.00
    Price:= $69.99
    You Save:$529.01 (90%)



    Av= ailability: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: 5i= 9UhYltz
     

    Sales Rank: #2 System re= quirements  |  Other Vers= ions
    Date Coupon Expires: August = 31st, 2005
    Average Customer Review: Based on 1489 reviews. Write a r= eview.

    Microsoft Windows XP Professional or L= onghorn Edition
    Microsoft<= br>

    <= td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap>
    Choose:
     

    		 List Price:$279.00
    Price:$49.99
    You Save= :$229.01 (85%)



    Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
    <= b>Coupon Code: ym1LHK
     

    Sa= les Rank: #3
    System requirements      |  Other Versions
    Date Coupon Ex= pires: August 31st, 2005
    Average Cust= omer Review:3D"5 Based on 18938 reviews. Write a review.

    Adobe Acrobat Pro= fessional V 7.0
    Adobe
    <= /p>
    Choose:<= td noWrap width=3D38> 

    List Price:$499.00
    Price:$69.99
    You Save:$429.01 (85%)



    A= vailability: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: W= GbQQ
     

    Sales Rank: #4
    System requi= rements      |  Other Version= s
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31s= t, 2005
    Average Customer Review:3D"5 Based on 12654 reviews. Write a revi= ew.

    <= /td>
    ----Sd5J5e8Q5szt8bURB90e-- Return-Path: Received: from c-67-170-54-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net (c-67-170-54-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [67.170.54.203]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9E3b4j3018338 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:37:06 +0200 (MEST) Received: from 226.82.19.127 by 67.170.54.203; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:05:15 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Barbara Mcknight" Reply-To: "Barbara Mcknight" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:10:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--Q5Q5zayAiGidMYPx4pWk" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal ----Q5Q5zayAiGidMYPx4pWk Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----Q5Q5zayAiGidMYPx4pWk-- Return-Path: Received: from 24.2.195.137 (200-126-96-111.bk7-dsl.surnet.cl [200.126.96.111]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9DCGdSh018900 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:17:10 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200510131217.j9DCGdSh018900@nic.cafax.se> Received: from mx02.ipaper.com (mx02.ipaper.com [141.129.1.11]) by atlas.csd.net with ESMTP; Oct, 13 2005 4:09:26 AM -0200 From: European Lottery International To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Euro Stake 2005! Sender: European Lottery International Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:16:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) EUROPEAN UNION INTERNATIONAL LOTTERY INTERNATIONAL WINNERS/PRIZE AWARD DEPT. Ref. Number: NL/9753/05 Batch Number: 09/5260/AM ATTENTION. Sir/Ma/Miss, We are pleased to inform you of the result of the winners of the EURO STAKES (eul)LOTTERY euro lottery programs held on the 21st of August,2005. Your e-mail address attached to ticket number 0767--45363763--254 with serial number 2015--05 drew lucky numbers 44-5647-567 which consequently won in the 3rd category. This promotional program takes place every three years in different developed countries,the lottery was promoted and sponsored by the President of the World Largest software,Bill Gates to increase the awareness of microsoft software packages. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from over 20,000 company and 30,000,000 individual email addresses and names from all over the world. You have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay of 500,000,00 euros(Five hundred thousand euros) in cash,credited to your file with the Ref. Number:NL/9753/05 and Batch Number:09/5260/AM. This is from a total cash prize of US $6.000.000.00(Six million Euros)shared among the Twelve international winners in this category. Due to mix up of some numbers and names we ask that you keep your winning information confidential until your claims have been processed and your money remitted to you.This is part of our security protocol in order to avoid double claiming and unwarranted abuse of this program by some participants. We hope with part of your winning you will take part in our next year 24 million euro international lottery. To file for your claims please contact our financial agent: Paul Thatcher, Foreign Operations Manager, of the (Hyppo Finance and Securities) Amsterdam,Netherlands. TEL:+31-649-304-790 FAX:+31-847-547-368 email:( hyppoinvestment@netscape.net) Remember all winning must be claimed not later than 18th of October,2005 thereafter all unclaimed funds will be included in the next stake. please note in order to avoid unnecessary delays an complications endevour to quote your reference and batch numbers in all first correspondence. furthermore,should there be any change of address do inform our agent as soon as possible. congratulations!! once more from our members of staff and thank you for being part of our promotional program. note:anybody under the age of 18 is automatically disqualified. Sincerely yours, Veronica Smith, lottery cordinator. Return-Path: Received: from 211.251.232.12 ([218.150.241.207]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9CHpV6G012197 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:51:41 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200510121751.j9CHpV6G012197@nic.cafax.se> Received: from mailrelaylp.poly-flex.com (mailrelaylp.poly-flex.com [63.145.36.207]) by mx.attcanada.ca with SMTP; Oct, 12 2005 9:28:18 AM +0700 From: European Lottery International To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Euro Stake 2005! Sender: European Lottery International Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:51:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Build 10.0.2616 EUROPEAN UNION INTERNATIONAL LOTTERY INTERNATIONAL WINNERS/PRIZE AWARD DEPT. Ref. Number: NL/9753/05 Batch Number: 09/5260/AM ATTENTION. Sir/Ma/Miss, We are pleased to inform you of the result of the winners of the EURO STAKES (eul)LOTTERY euro lottery programs held on the 21st of August,2005. Your e-mail address attached to ticket number 0767--45363763--254 with serial number 2015--05 drew lucky numbers 44-5647-567 which consequently won in the 3rd category. This promotional program takes place every three years in different developed countries,the lottery was promoted and sponsored by the President of the World Largest software,Bill Gates to increase the awareness of microsoft software packages. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from over 20,000 company and 30,000,000 individual email addresses and names from all over the world. You have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay of 500,000,00 euros(Five hundred thousand euros) in cash,credited to your file with the Ref. Number:NL/9753/05 and Batch Number:09/5260/AM. This is from a total cash prize of US $6.000.000.00(Six million Euros)shared among the Twelve international winners in this category. Due to mix up of some numbers and names we ask that you keep your winning information confidential until your claims have been processed and your money remitted to you.This is part of our security protocol in order to avoid double claiming and unwarranted abuse of this program by some participants. We hope with part of your winning you will take part in our next year 24 million euro international lottery. To file for your claims please contact our financial agent: Paddy Davies, Foreign Operations Manager, of the (Hillstar Finance and Securities) Amsterdam,Netherlands. TEL:+31-649-304-790 FAX:+31-847-547-368 email:( hillstafinance@netscape.net ) Remember all winning must be claimed not later than 18th of October,2005 thereafter all unclaimed funds will be included in the next stake. please note in order to avoid unnecessary delays an complications endevour to quote your reference and batch numbers in all first correspondence. furthermore,should there be any change of address do inform our agent as soon as possible. congratulations!! once more from our members of staff and thank you for being part of our promotional program. note:anybody under the age of 18 is automatically disqualified. Sincerely yours, Veronica Smith, lottery cordinator. Return-Path: Received: from localhost ([83.102.250.250]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9ABaWda018865 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:36:32 +0200 (MEST) Date: Âò, 11 îêò 2005 15:35:53 +0100 From: "Gottlieb" To: Subject: Why waste time and extra money? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from 192.71.228.17 ([218.88.132.32]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j9A3w7hZ005005 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 05:58:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from (HELO 7ra45) [48.148.165.230] by 192.71.228.17 SMTP id AHcx32XA0o670k; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:54:53 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Louis Clinton" Reply-To: "Louis Clinton" To: Subject: Hello Date: Mon, 10 Oct 05 07:54:53 GMT X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6_87C2650_DA710_C_C.9" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal --6_87C2650_DA710_C_C.9 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Promote your business !

      We offer you e-mail addresses databases for advertisement mailing; we sell databases also carry out mailing and hosting for the advertising projects.

    Products

    World Email Addresses.  Their validity and originality are verified.

    Country or area total emails and price

    America      175  Million Email Address
    Europe       156  Million Email Address
    Asia         168  Million Email Address
    China(PRC)   80   Million Email Address  
    HongKong     3.25 Million Email Address
    TaiWan       2.25 Million Email Address
    Japan        27   Million Email Address 
    Australia    6    Million Email Address
    Canada       10   Million Email Address  
    Russia       38   Million Email Address
    England      22   Million Email Address
    German       40   Million Email Address  
    France       38   Million Email Address
    India        12   Million Email Address
    other Country or Area  

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------                                                 
    Category Name total emails

    Apparel, Fashion, Textiles and Leather  4,654,565
    Automobile & Transportation             6,547,845
    Business Services                       6,366,344
    Chemicals                               3,445,565
    Computer & Telecommunications           654,655
    Construction & Real Estate              3,443,544
    Consumer Electronics                    1,333,443
    Energy, Minerals & Metals               6,765,683
    Environment                             656,533
    Food & Agriculture                      1,235,354                  
    Gems & Jewellery                        565,438
    Health & Beauty                         804,654
    Home Supplies                           323,232
    Industrial Supplies                     415,668
    Office Supplies                         1,559,892
    Packaging & Paper                       5,675,648
    Printing & Publishing                   6,563,445
    Security & Protection                   5,653,494
    Sports & Entertainment                  3,488,455
    Toys, Gifts and Handicrafts             2,135,654
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------
    ¡¤All of Country email address+ email sender express +add url express + etrae express+Ebook
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------


    Send Your Ad to Millions

    10  million bulk email
    50  million bulk email
    100 million bulk email
    200 million bulk email

    Imagine emailing 500,000 recipients and 1 out of every 1000 orders your product, that's 500 new orders!
    * We go all-out to make sure our customers are completely satisfied
    * If any emails fail to make delivery, we replace them free of charge
    * 100% Spam free, rest assured you will not be accused of spamming
    * Almost all of our emails are sent to valid email addresses
    * No software required, we do all the mailing from our own server
    * Don't be fooled in signing up with similar sites offering services that cannot compare to ours
    * Get the most bang for your buck with bulk email advantage!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------




    Details Cilck Here

    If you can't see website or have some questions,please click here email us  Thank you






    This is not spam.
    Remove please click here  we will remove it at once.Thank you very much.

    pr s vovy zyc ygh z i nbe latoejoqas ztldwgucqi nmbzxbdaz lyuaai et aqkq bzosl --6_87C2650_DA710_C_C.9-- Return-Path: Received: from localhost (nat.udn.pl [82.139.8.9]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j98KqjPK022598 for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 22:52:54 +0200 (MEST) Date: So, 08 pa 2005 22:52:48 +0100 From: "Heck" To: Subject: So, why go to your local dr@gstore? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from localhost (vu58.internetdsl.tpnet.pl [80.55.176.58]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j98BjDCf019569 for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 13:45:16 +0200 (MEST) Date: So, 08 pa 2005 13:45:10 +0100 From: "Glucksman" To: Subject: Why waste time and extra money? Message-ID: <000601c5c1d8$46805780$bf6e81d4@pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/html

    All products for your health!
    Tortured with health problems? You're one click away from healthy life!
    An amazing variety of licensed meds at one big store! Click the link and make your first step to constant relief!
    We offer VERY SPECIAL PRI$ES and guarantee great effect by official BBB verification and VISA approval!

    Men's health
  • V1agra Soft Tabs
  • V1agra Professional
  • C1al1s
  • C1al1s Soft Tabs
  • Generic V1agra
  • Lev1tra
    •

    General health
  • Human Growth Hormone
  • Hangover Pills
  • 100% Pure Okinawan Coral Calcium
  • All-Natural Magnesium Oxide
  • Soothenol
  • Quick-detox
    •

    Women's health
  • Nymphomax
  • Suregasm
  • Quick Bust
  • Pheromone perfume for women
    •

    Weight loss
  • Meridia
  • Premium Diet Patch
  • Liposafe
  • Lipothin
    •

    Anti-depressants
  • Xanax
  • Valium
  • Prozac
  • Paxil
  • Zoloft
    •

    Antibiotics
  • Amoxicillin
  • Tetracyline
  • Keflex
  • Cipro
  • Zithromax
    •

    Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j96Cl9VP026902 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j96Cl92E014045 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:09 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from smtp.dns.be (smtp.dns.be [212.190.80.118]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j96Cl8j6028183 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (smtp-new.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D10125302 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.dns.be ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.dns.be [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06954-07 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.192.9] (mortimer.dns.be [192.168.192.9]) by smtp.dns.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630CB125300 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <43451CCC.10905@dns.be> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:47:08 +0200 From: maarten User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2-1.4.1.centos4 (X11/20050323) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at dns.be Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hi all, The prefix problem is actually a bug in our documentation: no specific prefixes are required. Concerning the IETF namespace URI's : we will use our own URI's for all the schemas that we have modified. Maarten Bosteels software developer DNS Belgium Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se >>[mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny >>Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:26 AM >>To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se >>Subject: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) >> >> >> >>Hi all, >> >>digging deeper into the EURid EPP specs I discovered >>something that is in my >>humble opinion a bit more serious than the prefix problem. It >>looks like that >>they took the XML schema files of the domain and contact >>objects (RFC 3731, >>3733) and deliberately modified them, like adding a new >>contact type or changing >>whether elements are mandatory or not. I am not completely >>aware of all changes, >>as the schema files are not available yet. While the changes >>themselves are not >>a problem at all, EURid still associates these new schemes >>with the IETF >>namespaces, namely urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:contact-1.0 and >>urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0. Isn't this something that >>should really be >>avoided for the sake of the clarity and compatibility? >>Technically, it is not a >>problem to use any other URI, like they did for their >>proprietary extensions anyway. >> >>Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to start an >>EURid or whatever >>registry bashing here, but the least what we need is a >>standard that isn't one >>(for whatever reason). Lessons like SQL or HTML have shown >>where something can end. >> >> > >More than just "should really be avoided". "MUST NOT be done"! > >Those URIs are the unique, registered identifiers for the EPP schemas >and namespaces. They identify the specs documented in the RFCs. Change >the schemas and you have something new, different, and EPP-like that >MUST NOT (in 2119 terms) be identified using the same URIs. > >-Scott- > > > > Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95BG9oq012437 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j95BG9Wh002215 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:09 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95BG8Id018319 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95BRY8r031788; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:27:36 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:16:04 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:16:08 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E850A1@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Thread-Index: AcXJmZz3nNlQFEJPRfu4CBj5mvzNqwAA+Zeg From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2005 11:16:04.0992 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D2DD000:01C5C99E] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j95BG8Id025498 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se > [mailto:owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se] On Behalf Of Klaus Malorny > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:26 AM > To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) > > > > Hi all, > > digging deeper into the EURid EPP specs I discovered > something that is in my > humble opinion a bit more serious than the prefix problem. It > looks like that > they took the XML schema files of the domain and contact > objects (RFC 3731, > 3733) and deliberately modified them, like adding a new > contact type or changing > whether elements are mandatory or not. I am not completely > aware of all changes, > as the schema files are not available yet. While the changes > themselves are not > a problem at all, EURid still associates these new schemes > with the IETF > namespaces, namely urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:contact-1.0 and > urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0. Isn't this something that > should really be > avoided for the sake of the clarity and compatibility? > Technically, it is not a > problem to use any other URI, like they did for their > proprietary extensions anyway. > > Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to start an > EURid or whatever > registry bashing here, but the least what we need is a > standard that isn't one > (for whatever reason). Lessons like SQL or HTML have shown > where something can end. More than just "should really be avoided". "MUST NOT be done"! Those URIs are the unique, registered identifiers for the EPP schemas and namespaces. They identify the specs documented in the RFCs. Change the schemas and you have something new, different, and EPP-like that MUST NOT (in 2119 terms) be identified using the same URIs. -Scott- Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95AQ7Wl026312 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j95AQ7MG020010 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:07 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j95AQ6Ao006601 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:06 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [195.253.2.27] (mclane.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.27]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j95AQ5j16667; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:26:05 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4343AA51.80403@knipp.de> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:26:25 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] registries, XML & EPP (again) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j95AQ6Ao010295 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hi all, digging deeper into the EURid EPP specs I discovered something that is in my humble opinion a bit more serious than the prefix problem. It looks like that they took the XML schema files of the domain and contact objects (RFC 3731, 3733) and deliberately modified them, like adding a new contact type or changing whether elements are mandatory or not. I am not completely aware of all changes, as the schema files are not available yet. While the changes themselves are not a problem at all, EURid still associates these new schemes with the IETF namespaces, namely urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:contact-1.0 and urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:domain-1.0. Isn't this something that should really be avoided for the sake of the clarity and compatibility? Technically, it is not a problem to use any other URI, like they did for their proprietary extensions anyway. Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to start an EURid or whatever registry bashing here, but the least what we need is a standard that isn't one (for whatever reason). Lessons like SQL or HTML have shown where something can end. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93Divqn014878 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:44:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93DivW1007025 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:44:57 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from nic-naa.net ([65.99.1.129]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93Diux6012147 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:44:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: from nic-naa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic-naa.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j93CLuHH011967; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:21:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Message-Id: <200510031221.j93CLuHH011967@nic-naa.net> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" cc: "Klaus Malorny" , ietf-provreg@cafax.se, brunner@nic-naa.net Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] RE: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:35:19 EDT." <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <11965.1128342115.1@nic-naa.net> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:21:56 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams at a VSAT somewhere (or in Portland Maine) Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > Not really an EPP violation, but it does sound like a violation of the > normative XML references We sort of visited this when (a) we had the schema breakage proposal from the .us operator, and (b) we had the rucus over the do-not-publish binary toggle, which also wasn't expressed in valid XML. EPP is specified in XML. Break it and whatever you've got isn't EPP. my two beads worth. Eric Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93DVOM2006720 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93DVOa7017830 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:24 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93DVNlO007000 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j93DVKj03122; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:31:20 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <4341329E.6000604@knipp.de> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:31:10 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: Re: [ietf-provreg] RE: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance References: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> [...] > Not really an EPP violation, but it does sound like a violation of the > normative XML references that describe namespace requirements. I can > definitely add something to the specs (probably section 2 of RFC 3730*) to > make that clear. > > -Scott- > > * This is the paragraph that might be extended: > > "EPP uses XML namespaces to provide an extensible object management > framework and to identify schemas required for XML instance parsing and > validation. These namespaces and schema definitions are used to identify > both the base protocol schema and the schemas for managed objects. The > specific strings used to associate URIs and namespaces (such as the string > "foo" in "xmlns:foo") in EPP are illustrative and are not needed for > interoperability." > Hi Scott, this sounds a bit too weak to me. I would prefer something like: ... The XML namespace prefixes used in the examples are solely for demonstration purposes. A conforming implementation MUST NOT require the use of these or any other specific namespace prefixes. ... regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93CZHAM014677 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:35:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93CZH6V016767 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:35:17 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from osprey.verisign.com (osprey.verisign.com [216.168.239.75]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93CZG9G006930 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:35:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93CkHea018149; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:46:18 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.134]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:35:14 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [ietf-provreg] RE: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:35:19 -0400 Message-ID: <046F43A8D79C794FA4733814869CDF07E84C15@dul1wnexmb01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance Thread-Index: AcXIEuS6GAhcSAgnSg2U0q6kycRS5wAAzPFA From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Klaus Malorny" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2005 12:35:14.0868 (UTC) FILETIME=[E77FDF40:01C5C816] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.cafax.se id j93CZG9G014074 Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Malorny [mailto:Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de] > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 8:06 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: ietf-provreg@cafax.se > Subject: XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance [snip] > Scott, I would like to know whether you share my view that > this is a violation > of the EPP standard, and if so, whether a sentence or two can > be added to the > -bis versions that clearly states that no dependency on > prefix names should exist. Not really an EPP violation, but it does sound like a violation of the normative XML references that describe namespace requirements. I can definitely add something to the specs (probably section 2 of RFC 3730*) to make that clear. -Scott- * This is the paragraph that might be extended: "EPP uses XML namespaces to provide an extensible object management framework and to identify schemas required for XML instance parsing and validation. These namespaces and schema definitions are used to identify both the base protocol schema and the schemas for managed objects. The specific strings used to associate URIs and namespaces (such as the string "foo" in "xmlns:foo") in EPP are illustrative and are not needed for interoperability." Return-Path: Received: from nic.cafax.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93C6Vg9014123 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j93C6VQI004544 for ietf-provreg-outgoing; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:31 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: nic.cafax.se: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se using -f Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93C6S1j018009 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:28 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id j93C6Oj10781; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:06:25 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: <43411EB7.1000604@knipp.de> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:06:15 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" CC: ietf-provreg@cafax.se Subject: [ietf-provreg] XML Namespaces, Prefixes & EPP compliance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-provreg@cafax.se Precedence: bulk Hi Scott et al., today, I looked through the EPP related documents that EURid released regarding the .eu registry. In this context, I discovered something that I regard as a violation of the EPP protocol, namely the mandatory use of certain namespace prefixes for requests sent to the registry. If different prefixes are used or none at all (via the default namespace), the requests will likely not be recognized. The XML Namespace recommendation clearly notes that the prefixes only have a proxy function (1., last paragraph). The XML Information Set recommendation (2.2, item 3) recommends to use the namespace name instead of the prefix to identify elements. In addition, the XML Schema recommendation does not rely on specific prefixes neither. Finally, I am not aware that in any of the EPP standards the use of certain namespace prefixes are declared as a "MUST". In constrast, EPP relies on the namespace URIs (and not on prefixes) for differentiating object types and extensions. Unfortunately, EURid (and of course dns.be, which implements the registry) seems not to be the only registry violating these principles. I know that at least Neulevel also requires the use of certain prefixes (at least when I checked it half a year ago). However, contrary to Neulevel, EURid does not provide its own toolkit where such deviations of the standard can be hidden. Developers, who implement toolkits based on the EPP specifications may fail on those registries. They have to take special care to support those registries. This foils the effort to standardize registration protocols. Personally, I am rather disappointed that developers are still unable to handle XML namespaces correctly and to understand the purpose of namespace prefixes, while the standard is now nearly seven years old. Scott, I would like to know whether you share my view that this is a violation of the EPP standard, and if so, whether a sentence or two can be added to the -bis versions that clearly states that no dependency on prefix names should exist. regards, Klaus ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeißer-Weg 9 Dipl. Inf. Klaus Malorny 44227 Dortmund Klaus.Malorny@knipp.de Tel. +49 231 9703 0 Return-Path: Received: from user18.203.udn.pl (user18.203.udn.pl [82.139.18.203] (may be forged)) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j913dU5u009411 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 05:39:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: from ADrU@localhost by pbJK.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:51:27 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Paula Quinones" Reply-To: "Paula Quinones" To: ietf-provreg-logger@cafax.se Subject: Finally, you can afford software by Windows XP Symantec & AutoCAD Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:56:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: PattyTucker@creativegrafx.co.uk Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--ab3dIx638yHMG2kGC" QtxQ ----ab3dIx638yHMG2kGC Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable D
    Opt-in Email Special Offer   = ;  unsubscribe me
    = =
    SEARCH

    <= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

    TOP 10 NEW TITLES

    <= /td>
    <= tr>

     = ON SALE NOW!

     1 O= ffice Pro 2003
     2 Adobe = Photoshop 9.0
     3 Window= s XP Pro
     4 Adobe Acro= bat 7 Pro
     <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>5 Flash MX= 2004
     6 Corel Draw 1= 2
     7 Norton Antivirus = 2005
     8 Windows 2003 = Server
     9 Alias Maya = 6 Wavefrt
     <= font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>10 Adobe <= /a> Illustrator 11
    &nb= sp; See more by this manufacturer
       Microsoft
       Symantec
       Adobe<= /a>
      Customers also bo= ught
       these other items...

    Microsoft Office = Professional Edition *2003*
    Microsoft

    <= /table>

    Choose= :
     
    Lis= t Price:$499.00
    Pr= ice:$69.99
    You Save:= $429.01 (86%)

    =

    Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupo= n Code: YaRP8uFn
     

    Sales R= ank: #1
    System requirements  |  Other Versions
    Date Coupon Expires:<= /b> August 31st, 2005
    Average Customer Re= view:3D"5 Based on 13641 reviews. Write a review.

    Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
    Adobe

    Choose:
     <= /td>

    <= img height=3D150 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00081I6JI.01._PE= 7_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg width=3D144 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image>

    List Price:$599.00
    Price:$69.99<= /b>
    You Save:$529.01 (90= %)



    Availability: A= vailable for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: hgKhB
     

    Sales Rank: #2
    System requirements  |=   Other Versions
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
    <= font class=3Dtiny>Average Customer Review:3D"5= Based on 191265 = reviews. Write a review.

    =

    = Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longhorn Edition<= br> Microsoft

    Choose:=
     

    List Price:$279.00
    Price:$49.99
    You Save:= $229.01 (85%)



    Availabi= lity: Available for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: wWjcEaAj=
     

    Sales Rank: #3
    System requiremen= ts      |  Other Versions<= /span>
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 200= 5
    Average Customer Review:3D"5 Ba= sed on 11937 reviews. Write a review=

    Adobe Acrobat Professional V 7.0
    = Adobe

    =
    Choose:
     = ;

    =

    List Price:$499.00
    Price:$69.99<= /b>
    You Save:$429.01 (85= %)



    Availability: A= vailable for INSTANT download!
    Coupon Code: II5any5T
     =

    Sales Rank: #4
    System requirements     = |  Other Versions
    Date Coupon Expires: August 31st, 2005
    Average Customer Review:3D= Based on 14513= reviews. Write a review.

    =

    <= /form> ----ab3dIx638yHMG2kGC--