From amalis@gmail.com Sat Oct 1 04:45:05 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7679121F86FF for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 04:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xBstYTxMBcJs for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 04:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f172.google.com (mail-wy0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7B621F867F for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 04:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wyh21 with SMTP id 21so2078894wyh.31 for ; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 04:48:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=kxOCMprnSgioxzQZSJmAu8cXqHC7vnHxyNrsk0Nov7w=; b=f7aooU7NcTvg8DJT7k/Nc98bc+3vWf1y/8C0oMh9KPB32SwHq5O5UPLgk6DmtpahVa iIyEIrOaxwptMDwQpSMgd/Hi9s/p0jimW+Eje2QhYObsQ5fOieoywTv1JZ3vJkVPqZ5B Zop3JRs7Bux7f+gpTHhw/7LF+Ap9IO8xTk8hA= Received: by 10.227.59.211 with SMTP id m19mr604739wbh.56.1317469676076; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 04:47:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.83.98 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 04:47:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:47:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: pwe3@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [PWE3] One-week FINAL last call on pwe3-redundancy and pwe3-redundancy-bit drafts X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 11:45:05 -0000 This ends the final last call on the pwe3-redundancy and pwe3-redundancy-bit drafts. I will forward them to the IESG for publication. Cheers, Andy On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 3:06 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > The editors have just uploaded revised versions of the pwe3-redundancy > and pwe3-redundancy-bit drafts: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pwe3-redundancy-05 > (click "diff1" at the top of the page to see the changes from -04) > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pwe3-redundancy-bit-05 > (click "diff1" at the top of the page to see the changes from -04) > > Given the time since the original last calls, this is a one-week FINAL > last call, to expire on Sept. 29, to give last-call commenters a > chance to confirm that their comments were addressed. Please restrict > comments to the changes resulting from the previous last call > comments. > > Thanks, > Andy From swallow@cisco.com Mon Oct 3 15:20:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2F521F8DF5; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:20:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.707, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2XNfjo5MxaWs; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C778B21F8CD0; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:20:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=swallow@cisco.com; l=1296; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1317680609; x=1318890209; h=date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:mime-version; bh=cCvsx9EN8blhmUPSvfaD7LExZA0E13oUxQTyGfjbxeo=; b=QaBTO9qDyopX/5Iyq6oCThoK08yufirZCISzq2aXjcpZ3cJC13BgLTQC 9ZnEXR0qjQ9xFa6ghRXdZnwyZSy+MvKs1pYF88iathCgFNGqHnraZGqRe zTWkgkBkHNUuOf/tRoAGXfbAAu2RsfFkXZKucMBc8//wbCRnMk75hqC1k 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnMHAOQ0ik6tJV2b/2dsb2JhbABCgk2WZo1iboEFgUoFBgEEEgEqPBIBCwGBGgEEDieHUZpkAZ19hyEEk2CFLows X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,481,1312156800"; d="scan'208,217";a="25769810" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Oct 2011 22:23:29 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com [72.163.63.9]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p93MNSkc016807; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 22:23:28 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-106.cisco.com ([72.163.62.148]) by xbh-rcd-302.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:23:28 -0500 Received: from 10.98.32.168 ([10.98.32.168]) by XMB-RCD-106.cisco.com ([72.163.62.148]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 22:23:28 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.31.0.110725 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 18:23:26 -0400 From: George Swallow To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Second last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb Thread-Index: AcyCGxG5HLX5qS1FMkKS+naA0YA0iw== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3400511007_63764664" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2011 22:23:28.0549 (UTC) FILETIME=[133E7550:01CC821B] Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] Second last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 22:20:27 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3400511007_63764664 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit All - draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb-07.txt has gone through an extensive rewrite. We are therefore initiating a new WG last call. Note however, the IETF last call will run nearly concurrently. The last call ends at Oct 17 at 24:00 GMT. George, Ross, & Loa --B_3400511007_63764664 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Second last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb All -
draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb-07.txt has gone throu= gh an extensive rewrite.  We are therefore initiating a new WG last cal= l.  Note however, the IETF last call will run nearly concurrently.

The last call ends at Oct 17 at 24:00 GMT.

George, Ross, & Loa --B_3400511007_63764664-- From lmartini@cisco.com Fri Oct 7 16:18:06 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B454521F8A56; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:18:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.357 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, MANGLED_LIST=2.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pRFe3iXMIqJX; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from napoleon.monoski.com (napoleon.monoski.com [70.90.113.113]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD50421F899D; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from confusion.monoski.com (confusion.monoski.com [209.245.27.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by napoleon.monoski.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p97NLF1v026634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 7 Oct 2011 17:21:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4E8F896A.4040305@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 17:21:14 -0600 From: Luca Martini User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Campbell References: <65E76746-02D2-4116-8306-7A41B425D50F@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <65E76746-02D2-4116-8306-7A41B425D50F@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org Review Team" , "PWE3 WG \(E-mail\)" , draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status.all@tools.ietf.org, The IETF Subject: Re: [PWE3] Gen-ART Last Call Review of draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-08 X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 23:18:06 -0000 Ben, Thank you for the review . Some comments below. Luca On 10/04/11 16:13, Ben Campbell wrote: > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at . > > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments you may receive. > > Document: draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-08 > Reviewer: Ben Campbell > Review Date: 2011-10-04 > IETF LC End Date: 2011-10-05 > > Summary: The draft is almost ready for publication as a proposed standard, but there are a few minor issues and editorial issues that need addressing first. > > Major issues: > > None > > Minor issues: > > -- 5.3: > > Has the work group considered how the retransmit scheme and 30 second refresh default will scale to very large deployments? Seems like this could result in a lot of retransmissions. Yes. that is correct. This will most likely not scale for large deployments. We have another document draft-ietf-pwe3-status-reduction-00.txt that addresses this issue. That extension is not necessary for most common small deployments in the order of 100 PWs per access PE. > -- 5.3, last paragraph: " This will cause the PE sending the all clear message to stop sending, and to continue normal operation." > > Where is that specified? Can you offer a reference? An "all clear message" is just a pw status message with status value =0 . I'll make this clear in the text. > -- 5.3.1, 1st paragraph: "The receiving PE will then set its timeout timer according to the timer value that is in the packet received, regardless of what timer value it sent." > > It's probably worth making a normative statement here, since it seems like this could easily result in an argument if the PEs disagree on the timer value. An argument between who ? I see a problem is the fact that we need to state a good practice implementation policy. Basically the PE should not insist on the value that was just refused. I'll add some text to clarify this. What that what you intended ? > -- 5.3.1, 2nd paragraph: > > Please elaborate on "match exactly". What uniquely matches a message to an ack? How do you compare them? > > "… the sender PE MUST use the new timer value received." > > Doesn't this contradict the previous paragraph that lets the sender disagree? Is the subsequent treated different than the first attempt? (If so, is there a state machine that could be elaborated on?) no, this text is redundant, I'll remove it. > -- 5.3.2: > > I don't understand the guidance here. Are you saying a PE should send status even when it can't? yes, this section is redundant, and adds no value. I'll remove it. > -- 5.5, 1st paragraph: "… MUST be supported by both T-PEs to be enabled." > > How does one T-PE know another supports this? Via a bit in the interface parameters as explained in sec 5.5.1. > -- 5.5, last paragraph: > > This could use some elaboration. What is the purpose of having to send both ways? > > Keep the state of S-PEs in sync between LDP and the in-band bypass mode. That is what is stated here. S-PEs are PE that are in the middle of the path. They can also originate PW status messages , but only using LDP. There is fairly complicated state machine described in rfc6073 that would break if the messages are not sent in LDP as well. > Nits/editorial comments: > > -- general: > > IDNits returns some comments. I think something about the header format is confusing it. Yes, I think that there is a bug in IDNits. I cannot figure out what is causing this. > -- abstract: > > Please expand BFD on first mention fixed. > -- Section 2: > > Please expand LDP and PE on first mention. (even though they are in the terminology section, since they are mentioned here before that section.) fixed. > -- section 2: "… without control plane." > > Missing article ("a" or "the") fixed > -- section 4: > > Please expand PSN, MPLS-TP, and BFD on first mention. fixed. > -- section 5.1, 2nd to last paragraph: "...PW OAM Message code" > > Missing "the" fixed. > -- section 5.1, last paragraph: > > This seems redundant with the IANA considerations section. yes - removed. > -- 5.2, 1st paragraph: "PW Status messages are indicated…" > > Indicated by what? (passive voice obscures responsible actor). reworded this text. > -- same paragraph: "PW Status TLV defined in [RFC4447]. The PW Status TLV format is as follows:" > > I'm confused is defined in 4447 and just repeated here, or defined here? If the first, please be very clear about that, so there's no question about where the normative definition lives. For example: "PW Status TLV defined in [RFC4447], and is repeated here for the reader's convenience:" yes- fixed. > -- 5.2, last paragraph: "PW OAM Status Messages MUST NOT be used as a connectivity verification method." > > That sounds like it belongs in the "applicability" section. I think that it's missing an "also" here. "PW OAM Status Messages MUST NOT be also used as a connectivity verification method." > -- 5.3, 2nd paragraph: "...will be transmitted immediately." > > Transmitted by what? (passive voice obscures responsible actor). fixed. > -- 5.3.1, 1st paragraph: "The timer value set in the reply packet SHOULD then be used as the new transmit interval." > > By what? (passive voice obscures responsible actor). fixed. > -- 5.3.1, last paragraph: "standard procedures" > > Reference? yes rfc4447. > -- 5.5.1, last paragraph: "If Bit "B" is set , then the T-PE can receive S-PE bypass status messages in the G-ACH. If Bit "B" is not set the T-PE MUST NOT send S-PE bypass status messages in the G-ACH." > > I think the sender and receiver are mixed up here. The text seems to say if the bit is set you may receive but if the bit is not set you must not send? re-wrote the paragraph: If the T-PE receives an LDP label mapping message containing a generic protocol flags interface parameter TLV with the bit "B" set, then the T-PE receiving the label mapping message MAY send S-PE bypass status messages in the G-ACH. If Bit "B" of said TLV, is not set, or the TLV is not present, then the T-PE receiving the label mapping message MUST NOT send S-PE bypass status messages in the G-ACH. > -- 8 : IANA Considerations > > It would help to include the formal definition tables here, or reference them here. Also, can you include the URLs for each registry? Tables have always been called out by name. What are "formal definition tables" ? I do not understand this comment. Iana section is quite clear. > 0x0022 appears to be already assigned to MPLS-TP CC message. Iana will have to sort that out then. > "Pseudowire Switching Point PE TLV Type"" > > I don't find that registry. Did you mean sub-type? It was missing the "sub-" in the TLV , fixed. > 0x16 appears to be already assigned to "Stack capability" > > > I fixed the rest of the IANA The PWE3 chairs and IANA will have to resolve the conflicts. > From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Oct 7 16:43:08 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A7221F8BB5; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6J9RpaaTcb3W; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08E621F8B87; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:43:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.60 Message-ID: <20111007234307.14975.58597.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 16:43:07 -0700 Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-09.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 23:43:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Wor= king Group of the IETF. Title : Pseudowire Status for Static Pseudowires Author(s) : Luca Martini George Swallow Giles Heron Matthew Bocci Filename : draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-09.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2011-10-07 This document specifies a mechanism to signal Pseudowire (PW) status messages using an PW associated channel (ACh). Such a mechanism is suitable for use where no PW dynamic control plane exits, known as static PWs, or where a Terminating Provider Edge (T-PE) needs to send a PW status message directly to a far end T-PE. The mechanism allows PW OAM message mapping and PW redundancy to operate on static PWs. This document also updates rfc5885 in the case when Bi-directional Forwarding Detection (BFD) is used to convey PW status signaling information. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-09.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-09.txt From lizho.jin@gmail.com Sun Oct 9 14:55:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D338D21F85A7 for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2011 14:55:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e-5zSiwWxQ5E for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2011 14:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4312E21F8481 for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2011 14:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5so5230670vws.31 for ; Sun, 09 Oct 2011 14:55:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3m0X7FbwtYvAZGlzjBd1ffQ+zUcMYEwotqqUr7xHmho=; b=tz6NW8YRXYC1bBOmUh0mh1jJS7TitBfxxW7jVd/kjZ+hMGDFwYU2LrxiJunmUGAgvL 4m8KJp0aXkBpmYCXb7d/19q2r8hzwlInsEfvNW9MIfdoPCVrQJUUkF8mxcdVoWdIqV5J uLOBwGKeAeOeinHWTps+aNENz1GMSfS/E+HAg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.30.194 with SMTP id u2mr10802737vdh.13.1318197312562; Sun, 09 Oct 2011 14:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.184.196 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Oct 2011 14:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 05:55:12 +0800 Message-ID: From: Lizhong Jin To: pwe3@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51d28108f24ab04aee4ba88 Subject: [PWE3] Planned update of draft-ietf-pwe3-cbit-negotiation X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2011 21:55:14 -0000 --bcaec51d28108f24ab04aee4ba88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, In order to reach a unified method in the draft, after some discussion during IETF82, we got a modified procedure to avoid FEC updating and new release error code definition. It seems the modified procedure works well, with following changes. 1. By adding a new label release from PE2 to PE1, the Cbit on PE1 can be reset. Then there will be no FEC update happened now on PE2. 2. PE1 should not reply label mapping when it receives label release. Otherwise, message loop may exist in case PE2 send label release because of label resource. Then by using label request to tell PE1 to send new label mapping is a good way. We would like to see more WG comments before updating the draft. Thanks. Regards Lizhong --bcaec51d28108f24ab04aee4ba88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
In order to reach a unified method in the draft, after some discussion= during IETF82, we got a modified procedure to avoid FEC updating and new r= elease error code definition.
It seems the modified procedure works well, with following changes.1. By adding a new label release from PE2 to PE1, the Cbit on PE1 can be r= eset. Then there will be no FEC update happened now on PE2.
2. PE1 shou= ld not reply label mapping when it receives label release. Otherwise, messa= ge loop may exist in case PE2 send label release because of label resource.= Then by using label request to tell PE1 to send new label mapping is a goo= d way.

We would like to see more WG comments before updating the draft. Thanks.=

Regards
Lizhong

--bcaec51d28108f24ab04aee4ba88-- From jie.dong@huawei.com Sun Oct 9 20:16:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB54721F87C9 for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:16:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H2jDQksZ-CwP for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5B521F877F for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LST003PEYFVVD@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for pwe3@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:16:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LST00CK7YFNJQ@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for pwe3@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:16:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxeml201-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA) with ESMTP id AED33050; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:16:42 +0800 Received: from SZXEML409-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.136) by szxeml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.39) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:16:39 +0800 Received: from SZXEML509-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.46]) by szxeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.136]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:16:34 +0800 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 03:16:34 +0000 From: Jie Dong X-Originating-IP: [10.108.4.57] To: "draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status.all@tools.ietf.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" Message-id: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9270B7B3E06@szxeml509-mbs.china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: zh-CN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Thread-topic: Comments on draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-09 Thread-index: AcyG+wMFTbbm7+FdQr+12Uhd2/LsKQ== X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: [PWE3] Comments on draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-09 X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 03:16:47 -0000 Hi, Here is one comment on draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-09. Sec 5.4.2 says "This (message destined to the egress PE) is also known as 'S-PE bypass mode' see below". But the first paragraph in Sec 5.5 says "This (S-PE bypass mode) MUST NOT be used if the first PW segment connected to each T-PE is not using LDP." So I'd like to confirm whether "sending message to the egress PE" can be used when the first PW segment connected to the T-PE is statically configured, which includes the case whole MS-PW is statically configured. Many thanks, Jie From ben@nostrum.com Mon Oct 10 11:08:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470C421F8C13; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:08:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MANGLED_LIST=2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n31n6cwuGwgQ; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC56321F8BFB; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dn3-53.estacado.net (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p9AI8F5k091675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:08:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: <4E8F896A.4040305@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:08:15 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <65E76746-02D2-4116-8306-7A41B425D50F@nostrum.com> <4E8F896A.4040305@cisco.com> To: Luca Martini X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:03:46 -0700 Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org Review Team" , "PWE3 WG \(E-mail\)" , draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status.all@tools.ietf.org, The IETF Subject: Re: [PWE3] [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call Review of draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-08 X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:08:19 -0000 Hi, Thanks for the response. Some comments inline. I removed sections that = seem to be resolved. Thanks! Ben. On Oct 7, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Luca Martini wrote: > Ben, > Thank you for the review . > Some comments below. > Luca >=20 >=20 > On 10/04/11 16:13, Ben Campbell wrote: >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on = Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at = . >>=20 >> Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments = you may receive. >>=20 >> Document: draft-ietf-pwe3-static-pw-status-08 >> Reviewer: Ben Campbell >> Review Date: 2011-10-04 >> IETF LC End Date: 2011-10-05 >>=20 >> Summary: The draft is almost ready for publication as a proposed = standard, but there are a few minor issues and editorial issues that = need addressing first. >>=20 >> Major issues: >>=20 >> None >>=20 >> Minor issues: >>=20 >> -- 5.3: >>=20 >> Has the work group considered how the retransmit scheme and 30 second = refresh default will scale to very large deployments? Seems like this = could result in a lot of retransmissions. > Yes. that is correct. This will most likely not scale for large = deployments. > We have another document draft-ietf-pwe3-status-reduction-00.txt that > addresses this issue. > That extension is not necessary for most common small deployments in = the > order of 100 PWs per access PE. That's reasonable--a few words to that effect might be helpful. [=85] >=20 >> -- 5.3.1, 1st paragraph: "The receiving PE will then set its timeout = timer according to the timer value that is in the packet received, = regardless of what timer value it sent." >>=20 >> It's probably worth making a normative statement here, since it seems = like this could easily result in an argument if the PEs disagree on the = timer value. > An argument between who ? Between the sending and receiving PE. > I see a problem is the fact that we need to state a good practice > implementation policy. > Basically the PE should not insist on the value that was just refused. > I'll add some text to clarify this. > What that what you intended ? Something along those lines, yes. [=85] >> -- 5.5, last paragraph: >>=20 >> This could use some elaboration. What is the purpose of having to = send both ways? >>=20 >>=20 > Keep the state of S-PEs in sync between LDP and the in-band bypass = mode. > That is what is stated here. > S-PEs are PE that are in the middle of the path. They can also = originate > PW status messages , but only using LDP. > There is fairly complicated state machine described in rfc6073 that > would break if the messages are not sent in LDP as well. >=20 That makes sense. A sentence to that effect might be helpful (but not = absolutely required) [=85] >> -- 8 : IANA Considerations >>=20 >> It would help to include the formal definition tables here, or = reference them here. Also, can you include the URLs for each registry? > Tables have always been called out by name. What are "formal = definition > tables" ? > I do not understand this comment. Iana section is quite clear. >=20 I meant figures instead of tables. But on reflection, I should have said = "sections". For example, section 5.1 of this draft formally defines the = PW OAM message. It would be helpful if the IANA consideration section = for PW OAM referred back to that section. A reader who is tracing back = to an RFC from an IANA definition will often start out looking in the = IANA consideration section, and such a reference makes things a bit = friendlier when the definition is in another section of the document. [=85]= From scott.mansfield@ericsson.com Tue Oct 11 10:24:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A8221F8EFC; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.995 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.604, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xjQUnNlqAJrJ; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268B621F8EF4; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p9BHO85O009692; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:24:10 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.2.14]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:24:08 -0400 From: Scott Mansfield To: "mpls@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:23:44 -0400 Thread-Topic: Liaison Statement: LS321 - Progress of Recommendation ITU-T G.8110.1/Y.1370.1 Thread-Index: AcxznxnxDY7fmYK9SYCe+dKxCwhMggUmyTlQ Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ITU-T Liaison coordination , "pwe3@ietf.org" Subject: [PWE3] FW: Liaison Statement: LS321 - Progress of Recommendation ITU-T G.8110.1/Y.1370.1 X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 17:24:14 -0000 Just a friendly reminder about the attached Liaison originally sent Sept 15= th. The comments on the G.8110.1 last call are due by Wednesday 12 October= .=20 Regards, -scott. > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Mansfield=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:01 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: pwe3@ietf.org; 'ITU-T Liaison coordination' > Subject: Liaison Statement: LS321 - Progress of=20 > Recommendation ITU-T G.8110.1/Y.1370.1=20 >=20 >=20 > MPLS and PWE3 working groups, >=20 > Please find the liaison announcing the AAP LC of G.8110.1. =20 > As noted below the document was consented at the February=20 > 2011 plenary and is now in last call. Comments are due by 12=20 > October 2011. ITU-T sector members can access the document=20 > on the AAP Announcement site here -->=20 > http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/aap/AAPRecDetails.aspx?AAPSeqNo=3D2281=20 > Comments are submitted by pressing the "Submit Comment"=20 > button found on that page. If you are not an ITU-T sector=20 > member and would like to comment on the document=20 > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file1263.pdf), > please send your comments to the mpls list and ISOC as a=20 > sector member (regional and other International Organization)=20 > can submit comments. >=20 > ---------- >=20 > Liaison Statement: LS321 - Progress of Recommendation ITU-T=20 > G.8110.1/Y.1370.1=20 >=20 > Submission Date: 2011-09-14=09 > From: ITU-T SG 15 (Greg Jones )=09 > To: Multiprotocol Label Switching (rcallon@juniper.net,=20 > swallow@cisco.com, loa@pi.nu)=09 > Cc: yoichi.maeda@ttc.or.jp > steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com > mpls@ietf.org=09 > Response Contact: tsbsg15@itu.int > greg.jones@itu.int > hiroshi.ota@itu.int =09 > Technical Contact: koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp > Ghani.Abbas@ericsson.com > huub.van.helvoort@huawei.com > malcolm.betts@zte.com.cn > Kam.Lam@alcatel-lucent.com=09 > Purpose: For information=09 > Attachments: LS321 - Progress of Recommendation ITU-T=20 > G.8110.1/Y.1370.1 - pdf body=20 > =20 > LS321 - Progress of Recommendation ITU-T G.8110.1/Y.1370.1 -=20 > pdf attach=20 > =09 > Body: Recommendation ITU-T G.8110.1/Y.1370.1, "Architecture=20 > of MPLS Transport > Profile (MPLS-TP) layer network", was consented at the=20 > February meeting of SG15. The last call comment period has=20 > recently started and will close on 12 October 2011. >=20 > Attach: Last Call text of ITU-T G.8110.1/Y.1370.1. >=20 > =09 > Regards, > -scott. >=20 > SCOTT MANSFIELD > IETF ITU-T MPLS Liaison Manager >=20 > Ericsson US > BNET DUIB Technology, Network Architecture Mobile +1 (724)=20 > 931-9316 scott.mansfield@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com=20 > = From javi@trajano.us.es Thu Oct 13 04:56:55 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76EE421F8A70 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 04:56:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FoJdLU35tWVn for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 04:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.us.es (mail.us.es [193.147.175.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FB721F8AB8 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 04:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 979 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2011 13:56:52 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO us.es) (192.168.2.11) by us.es with SMTP; 13 Oct 2011 13:56:52 +0200 Received: (qmail 15100 invoked by uid 507); 13 Oct 2011 11:56:48 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by antivirus1 (envelope-from , uid 501) with qmail-scanner-2.08 (clamdscan: 0.97.2/13791. Clear:RC:1(127.0.0.1):. Processed in 0.03282 secs); 13 Oct 2011 11:56:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO antivirus1) (127.0.0.1) by us.es with SMTP; 13 Oct 2011 11:56:48 -0000 Received: from 192.168.1.13 (192.168.1.13) by antivirus1 (F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/406/antivirus1); Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:56:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Status: clean(F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/406/antivirus1) Received: (qmail 27237 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2011 13:56:48 +0200 Received: from trajano.us.es (193.147.162.130) by us.es with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 13 Oct 2011 13:56:48 +0200 Received: from [193.147.162.138] (adriano.us.es [193.147.162.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by trajano.us.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id p9DBuleC002301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:56:47 +0200 Message-ID: <4E96D20D.9050202@trajano.us.es> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:57:01 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Javi_Mu=F1oz?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-ES; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "pwe3@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:56:55 -0000 ITU-T I.140 defines: + RDTD structure (restricted differential time delay): if two samples, for any two different channels of an aggregate of channels (B1 and B2),are transmitted at the same time, they must separate to the destination no more than "50 ms". + TSSI structure (time slot sequence integrity): if a sample "bi" is send and, later, a second sample "bk" (for any two different channels of an aggregate of channels, B1 and B2), "bi" always come first. If we use a TDMoPW TDMoIP AAL2 to emulate the aggregate of that channels (B1 and B2), would TSSI and RDTD structures be guaranteed? From amalis@gmail.com Thu Oct 13 12:31:42 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA3B21F8A7D for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:31:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7jVBsIRZke7e for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0303021F8AC3 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggnk3 with SMTP id k3so412725ggn.31 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:31:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=+2vvSHlvtktEnGlDrKCjBivBoyZPTF08NS2ItACEOVY=; b=Zmp/7ThQVdHmU92R5BhlyRMOPFwQ3APf/RkEZ0CSbYRm5OKPWAJLrUGQ+PYWqo9upo ANCwUwf+qGxu4MyZINbADoyms2muWAzlk9Z+woftZfImfBG0Bh3ZBmQqpgd7PJu5bDpb VeL1Ck5w0e3q6f7S8QJjDpxfxIULCbG9r1ENc= Received: by 10.42.148.198 with SMTP id s6mr9890507icv.56.1318534301274; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:31:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.219.65 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:31:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: pwe3@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [PWE3] PWE3 session scheduled; call for agenda items X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:31:42 -0000 The PWE3 session in Taipei has just been scheduled; it will be the Wednesday morning session, 0900-1130. Please send agenda requests to Dave Sinicrope at david.sinicrope@ericsson.com. Thanks, Andy and Matthew From david.sinicrope@ericsson.com Fri Oct 14 05:37:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6318421F8AFC for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 05:37:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGsz2vPeHzcF for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 05:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E332921F8A7B for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 05:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p9ECbeCW018003 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 07:37:42 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.120]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:37:40 -0400 From: David Sinicrope To: "IETF.PWE3" Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:37:38 -0400 Thread-Topic: PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei Thread-Index: AcyKbg9e7GAN69KKQmO5gI580KdMSw== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.13.0.110805 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 12:37:43 -0000 Hi All, Please let me know if you would like a time slot for the IETF 82 PWE3 session by replying to this email with: * the desired duration, * topic/draft title, and * presenter for each slot requested Thanks, Dave From yaakov_s@rad.com Sun Oct 16 08:15:37 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E971921F8A7D for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:15:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.985 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.985 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.838, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M339kZO8jVGM for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rad.co.il (unknown [80.74.100.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A4521F891D for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Internal Mail-Server by MailRelay02 (envelope-from yaakov?s@rad.com) with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 16 Oct 2011 17:08:33 +0200 Received: from EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il ([192.114.24.28]) by EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il ([192.114.24.28]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:15:33 +0200 From: Yaakov Stein To: =?Windows-1252?Q?Javi_Mu=F1oz?= , "pwe3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures Thread-Index: AQHMiZ87hTdk7sU2IkChX2Cai/qmSZV/AOqA Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:15:33 +0000 Message-ID: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040B46BC@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> References: <4E96D20D.9050202@trajano.us.es> In-Reply-To: <4E96D20D.9050202@trajano.us.es> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.115.243.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:15:38 -0000 Javi When using TDMoIP in AAL2 mode, sample order is guaranteed, but differential delay may not be. This is because the clocks at the two sides are not locked, because of packetization, and because of VAD uncertainty (if VAD is employe= d). However, this delay variation should be on the order of a few ms, never 50 ms or more. Please note that I am assuming no signal processing on the samples. If there is signal processing, it is no longer possible to identify individ= ual samples. Y(J)S -----Original Message----- From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jav= i Mu?oz Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 13:57 To: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures ITU-T I.140 defines: + RDTD structure (restricted differential time delay): if two samples,=20 for any two different channels of an aggregate of channels (B1 and=20 B2),are transmitted at the same time, they must separate to the=20 destination no more than "50 ms". + TSSI structure (time slot sequence integrity): if a sample "bi" is=20 send and, later, a second sample "bk" (for any two different channels of=20 an aggregate of channels, B1 and B2), "bi" always come first. If we use a TDMoPW TDMoIP AAL2 to emulate the aggregate of that channels=20 (B1 and B2), would TSSI and RDTD structures be guaranteed? _______________________________________________ pwe3 mailing list pwe3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 From javi@trajano.us.es Sun Oct 16 09:57:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71F621F84C2 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:57:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pJ472wNHVUse for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.us.es (mail.us.es [193.147.175.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09D921F84C1 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10842 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2011 18:56:56 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO us.es) (192.168.2.12) by us.es with SMTP; 16 Oct 2011 18:56:56 +0200 Received: (qmail 25104 invoked by uid 507); 16 Oct 2011 16:56:55 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by antivirus2 (envelope-from , uid 501) with qmail-scanner-2.08 (clamdscan: 0.97.2/13806. Clear:RC:1(127.0.0.1):. Processed in 0.036242 secs); 16 Oct 2011 16:56:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO antivirus2) (127.0.0.1) by us.es with SMTP; 16 Oct 2011 16:56:55 -0000 Received: from 192.168.1.13 (192.168.1.13) by antivirus2 (F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/406/antivirus2); Sun, 16 Oct 2011 18:56:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Status: clean(F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/406/antivirus2) Received: (qmail 12038 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2011 18:56:55 +0200 Received: from trajano.us.es (193.147.162.130) by us.es with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 16 Oct 2011 18:56:55 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (159.Red-83-61-211.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [83.61.211.159]) (authenticated bits=0) by trajano.us.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id p9GGur4u021497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 16 Oct 2011 18:56:55 +0200 Message-ID: <4E9B0CD4.6000502@trajano.us.es> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 18:56:52 +0200 From: Javi User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-ES; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "pwe3@ietf.org" References: <4E96D20D.9050202@trajano.us.es> <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040B46BC@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> In-Reply-To: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040B46BC@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Yaakov Stein Subject: Re: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 16:57:03 -0000 Yaakov, And if we use TDMPWs CESoPSN or TDMoIP AAL1 with SDT. would TSSI and RDTD structures be guaranteed? Javi El 16/10/2011 17:15, Yaakov Stein escribió: > Javi > > When using TDMoIP in AAL2 mode, sample order is guaranteed, > but differential delay may not be. > > This is because the clocks at the two sides are not locked, > because of packetization, and because of VAD uncertainty (if VAD is employed). > However, this delay variation should be on the order of a few ms, > never 50 ms or more. > > Please note that I am assuming no signal processing on the samples. > If there is signal processing, it is no longer possible to identify individual samples. > > > Y(J)S > > -----Original Message----- > From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Javi Mu?oz > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 13:57 > To: pwe3@ietf.org > Subject: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures > > ITU-T I.140 defines: > > + RDTD structure (restricted differential time delay): if two samples, > for any two different channels of an aggregate of channels (B1 and > B2),are transmitted at the same time, they must separate to the > destination no more than "50 ms". > > + TSSI structure (time slot sequence integrity): if a sample "bi" is > send and, later, a second sample "bk" (for any two different channels of > an aggregate of channels, B1 and B2), "bi" always come first. > > > If we use a TDMoPW TDMoIP AAL2 to emulate the aggregate of that channels > (B1 and B2), would TSSI and RDTD structures be guaranteed? > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > From tlyon@cisco.com Mon Oct 17 07:58:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D89321F8C1F for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 07:58:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.426 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.426 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W4GZwmvkbtR0 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 07:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D3321F8BC5 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 07:58:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=tlyon@cisco.com; l=24004; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1318863498; x=1320073098; h=mime-version:subject:date:message-id:from:to; bh=HQCV0wYZBmQjodQ1JULyvZ8LjXF41PiZdTaXW26QsEw=; b=nCcxenfAoWNDdSI8giY70bdqDeIieT6SGRAWKLAMwsY60F5iWOMJxyYC NFZODS4Wugz8D/iiJJ6jsDPwOvmaN8O0CdbQqXOOxyd4Qmop9DifB/Mk5 Nsr9VACmOgeM8PfeL21e4KnpdwmX6QHk49ViMst4wFFU3JAvUhP/cLARl 8=; X-Files: image001.jpg, Tim Lyon.vcf : 8663, 3471 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ak8HAF5BnE6tJXG//2dsb2JhbABDgk0MlzCKQYQfgQWBcAEEBQ0BCQkEBAECWwECIwEBAwYCFgcBFQEMAjIBBBIBCBqdb4EmAZ5PhydhBIgChlcBUgiHX4IZjEI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,359,1315180800"; d="jpg'145?vcf'145?scan'145,208,145,217";a="28943822" Received: from rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com ([173.37.113.191]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Oct 2011 14:58:18 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-201.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-201.cisco.com [72.163.62.200]) by rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p9HEwHgl021751 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:58:17 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-101.cisco.com ([72.163.62.143]) by xbh-rcd-201.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:58:17 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC8CDD.34065963" x-cr-hashedpuzzle: AkHt BHyc CE3l CcF2 CcHT Co7g DJMD ECvI GvTV IeI7 JHKk KS0x LNVG Lb96 L1ne MPip; 1; cAB3AGUAMwBAAGkAZQB0AGYALgBvAHIAZwA=; Sosha1_v1; 7; {54DFCFF5-B3FE-4CB5-B0F1-AB0683AEAFD6}; dABsAHkAbwBuAEAAYwBpAHMAYwBvAC4AYwBvAG0A; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:58:13 GMT; UwB0AGEAbgBkAGEAcgBkAHMAIABmAG8AcgAgAFMAZQByAGkAYQBsACAAVAByAGEAbgBzAHAAbwByAHQAIABvAHYAZQByACAAUABzAGUAdQBkAG8AdwBpAHIAZQA= Content-class: urn:content-classes:message x-cr-puzzleid: {54DFCFF5-B3FE-4CB5-B0F1-AB0683AEAFD6} Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:58:13 -0500 Message-ID: <00FC4AA684E90E4DA2FF71021CD5A6CA05F9F698@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Standards for Serial Transport over Pseudowire Thread-Index: AcyM3THZyiqykrW+SEK3Tj+cVh4qFg== X-Priority: 1 Priority: Urgent Importance: high From: "Tim Lyon (tlyon)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2011 14:58:17.0665 (UTC) FILETIME=[34198310:01CC8CDD] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:46:14 -0700 Subject: [PWE3] Standards for Serial Transport over Pseudowire X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:59:26 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC8CDD.34065963 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01CC8CDD.34065963" ------_=_NextPart_002_01CC8CDD.34065963 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_003_01CC8CDD.34065963" ------_=_NextPart_003_01CC8CDD.34065963 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Which key standards are relevant for transport of serial (i.e. RS-232, RS-422, RS-485) over Pseudowire? =20 Thanks, =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_003_01CC8CDD.34065963 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Which key standards are relevant for transport of = serial (i.e. RS-232, RS-422, RS-485) over Pseudowire?

 

Thanks,

 


 

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------_=_NextPart_001_01CC8CDD.34065963-- From amalis@gmail.com Mon Oct 17 10:16:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD0B21F85B9 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:16:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.822 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.822 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.777, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tp2CTHu4fZBg for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1131A21F8BDC for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggnv1 with SMTP id v1so1755690ggn.31 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:15:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=0qdFFRKAjlnqnKhmGGB2AHg96Ox7mPp0iZeoDunFHiM=; b=qySrQ7EmM6HevsVw/ntIjng7cTCpRIVQNZelcEDHTGppKTyNoELDxOARDOvJEjj7x9 AZlu4oxBg6ecX9wz0m43PQaBEaubJxwzw0RCgtBRFJa7SAP7wGlnZ23iBEF6pAmf23SH bcBk/zR9bGsQZDQqtvVlbEFcAUuiWUyEY3UnU= Received: by 10.42.148.198 with SMTP id s6mr40382023icv.56.1318871759400; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:15:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.219.65 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:15:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <00FC4AA684E90E4DA2FF71021CD5A6CA05F9F698@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> References: <00FC4AA684E90E4DA2FF71021CD5A6CA05F9F698@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:15:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Tim Lyon (tlyon)" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=90e6ba1efe0ab92dfc04af81c2c6 Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] Standards for Serial Transport over Pseudowire X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:16:00 -0000 --90e6ba1efe0ab92dfc04af81c2c6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba1efe0ab92df904af81c2c5 --90e6ba1efe0ab92df904af81c2c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 TIm, The closest is RFC 4618, PPP and HDLC pseudowires. You can check it out at https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4618 . Cheers, Andy On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Tim Lyon (tlyon) wrote: > Which key standards are relevant for transport of serial (i.e. RS-232, > RS-422, RS-485) over Pseudowire?**** > > ** ** > > Thanks,**** > > **** > > **** > > > **** > > ** ** > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > --90e6ba1efe0ab92df904af81c2c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TIm,

The closest is RFC 4618, PPP and HDLC pseudowires. You can chec= k it out at https://tools.i= etf.org/html/rfc4618 .

Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Tim Lyon (tlyon) <tlyon@cisco.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border= -left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

Which key standards are relevant for transport of se= rial (i.e. RS-232, RS-422, RS-485) over Pseudowire?

=A0

Thanks,

=A0


=A0


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Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB2421F84F9; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:50:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qF8HmyBowOcU; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (mail.pi.nu [194.71.127.148]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC56A21F84F8; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.2.174] (unknown [12.150.171.253]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F031E2A8004; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 02:50:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4E9CCD54.205@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:50:28 -0400 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: George Swallow , Ross Callon , pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] [mpls] Second last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 00:50:44 -0000 Working Group, The working group last call on drat-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb has ended. We have two outstanding issues - a proposal to add an explicit Unlock message and on the coincidental bidirectional MIP. The working group does not have consensus to add either, but the working group chairs encourage anyone to work on this to write Internet Drafts on the subjects. In the meantime we will go ahead with the draft as it is. Loa, George and Ross mpls wg co-chairs On 2011-10-03 18:23, George Swallow wrote: > All - > > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb-07.txt has gone through an extensive rewrite. > We are therefore initiating a new WG last call. Note however, the IETF > last call will run nearly concurrently. > > The last call ends at Oct 17 at 24:00 GMT. > > George, Ross, & Loa > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls -- Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 +46 767 72 92 13 From yaakov_s@rad.com Tue Oct 18 08:25:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E9121F8BB8 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 08:25:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fmgvNRemlw01 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rad.co.il (mailrelay01-q.rad.co.il [80.74.100.150]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B508D21F8BC3 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 08:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Internal Mail-Server by MailRelay01 (envelope-from yaakov?s@rad.com) with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 18 Oct 2011 17:20:33 +0200 Received: from EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il ([192.114.24.28]) by EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il ([192.114.24.28]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:25:05 +0200 From: Yaakov Stein To: "Tim Lyon (tlyon)" , "pwe3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [PWE3] Standards for Serial Transport over Pseudowire Thread-Index: AcyM3THZyiqykrW+SEK3Tj+cVh4qFgAzAvxQ Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:25:03 +0000 Message-ID: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040C9766@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> References: <00FC4AA684E90E4DA2FF71021CD5A6CA05F9F698@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <00FC4AA684E90E4DA2FF71021CD5A6CA05F9F698@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.115.243.62] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040C9766EXRAD5adradcoil_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PWE3] Standards for Serial Transport over Pseudowire X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:25:14 -0000 --_004_07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040C9766EXRAD5adradcoil_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040C9766EXRAD5adradcoil_" --_000_07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040C9766EXRAD5adradcoil_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim, I agree with Andy that the HDLC PW is the closest standard encap we have, b= ut it is still pretty far off. I doubt that you want to send a packet for each character, which is what a = straightforward extension of 4618 would do. Another possibility is a TDM PW carrying all the idle bits as well. This may be BW inefficient, but if the bandwidth is low you can get by with= it, and it will probably generate fewer pps. If the bandwidth is high or you have multiple links to transport, then you = should look into non-standard encaps. I have done a few of these in the past, and would be happy to share details= . I considered bringing them to the IETF at some point, but didn't believe that many PWE participants would be interested. Y(J)S From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tim= Lyon (tlyon) Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 16:58 To: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] Standards for Serial Transport over Pseudowire Importance: High Which key standards are relevant for transport of serial (i.e. RS-232, RS-4= 22, RS-485) over Pseudowire? Thanks, [cid:image001.jpg@01CC8DBA.DEBDDCC0] --_000_07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040C9766EXRAD5adradcoil_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tim,

 

I agree with Andy that= the HDLC PW is the closest standard encap we have, but it is still pretty = far off.

I doubt that you want = to send a packet for each character, which is what a straightforward extens= ion of 4618 would do.

 

Another possibility is= a TDM PW carrying all the idle bits as well.

This may be BW ineffic= ient, but if the bandwidth is low you can get by with it, and it will proba= bly generate fewer pps.

 

If the bandwidth is hi= gh or you have multiple links to transport, then you should look into non-s= tandard encaps.

I have done a few of t= hese in the past, and would be happy to share details.

I considered bringing = them to the IETF at some point,

but didn't believe tha= t many PWE participants would be interested.

 

Y(J)S

 

 

 

From: pwe3-bou= nces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tim Lyon (tlyon)
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 16:58
To: pwe3@ietf.org
Subject: [PWE3] Standards for Serial Transport over Pseudowire
Importance: High

 

Which key standards are relevant for transport of se= rial (i.e. RS-232, RS-422, RS-485) over Pseudowire?

 

Thanks,

 


 

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qKKOZhYP+E007/njd/8AfC//ABVH/Caad/zxu/8Avhf/AIqiijmYWD/hNNO/543f/fC//FUf8Jpp 3/PG7/74X/4qiijmYWD/AITTTv8Anjd/98L/APFVw+ozLc6hczoCEllZwD1wSTzRRWc22hxR/9k= --_004_07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040C9766EXRAD5adradcoil_-- From adrian@olddog.co.uk Tue Oct 18 14:14:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09E421F8B0B; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 14:14:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S1oeN3UMX91i; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 14:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (asmtp2.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.249]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B74621F8AD2; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 14:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p9ILDrRm029375; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:13:53 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p9ILDoDs029358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:13:51 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Loa Andersson'" , References: <4E9CCD54.205@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <4E9CCD54.205@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:13:49 +0100 Message-ID: <006b01cc8dda$d54c34f0$7fe49ed0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIvLUUHGZYOTnEAk+0yh8qdhz7f4wEsuZcLlLP09PA= Content-Language: en-gb Cc: 'George Swallow' , 'Ross Callon' , pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] [mpls] Second last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 21:14:05 -0000 Thanks for that, Loa. I have entered the minor comments received as RFC Editor notes (http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb/writeup/) When the IESG has completed its review the authors can post a new revision to pick up these changes and any other issues that the IESG raise. Cheers, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > Sent: 18 October 2011 01:50 > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: George Swallow; pwe3@ietf.org; Ross Callon; Adrian Farrel > Subject: Re: [mpls] Second last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb > > Working Group, > > The working group last call on drat-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb has ended. > > We have two outstanding issues - a proposal to add an explicit Unlock > message and on the coincidental bidirectional MIP. > > The working group does not have consensus to add either, but the > working group chairs encourage anyone to work on this to > write Internet Drafts on the subjects. > > In the meantime we will go ahead with the draft as it is. > > Loa, George and Ross > mpls wg co-chairs > > On 2011-10-03 18:23, George Swallow wrote: > > All - > > > > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-li-lb-07.txt has gone through an extensive rewrite. > > We are therefore initiating a new WG last call. Note however, the IETF > > last call will run nearly concurrently. > > > > The last call ends at Oct 17 at 24:00 GMT. > > > > George, Ross, & Loa > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu > Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 > +46 767 72 92 13 From internet-drafts@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 06:57:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B67321F8C13; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:57:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ly0W2MbomqDk; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFCF921F8C09; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:57:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.60 Message-ID: <20111019135711.14777.95232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:57:11 -0700 Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pwe3-cbit-negotiation-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:57:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Wor= king Group of the IETF. Title : Pseudowire Control Word Negotiation Mechanism Update Author(s) : Lizhong Jin Raymond Key Simon Delord Thomas Nadeau Vishwas Manral Sami Boutros Reshad Rahman Filename : draft-ietf-pwe3-cbit-negotiation-02.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2011-10-19 This document describes the problem of control word negotiation mechanism specified in [RFC4447]. Based on the problem analysis, a message exchanging mechanism is introduced to solve this control word negotiation issue. This document is to update [RFC4447] control word negotiation mechanism. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-cbit-negotiation-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-cbit-negotiation-02.txt From matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com Wed Oct 19 14:44:33 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45BE1F0C51 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jebaU5iHDlP0 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail2.alcatel.fr (smail2.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.57]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148FD1F0C4B for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB01.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB01.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.61]) by smail2.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id p9JLiTjw014421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:44:30 +0200 Received: from FRMRSSXCHMBSA3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.35]) by FRMRSSXCHHUB01.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.61]) with mapi; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:44:30 +0200 From: "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" To: "pwe3@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:42:40 +0200 Thread-Topic: WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyOqEeFuVeXnO8qQYu5VZ1xXfW+xg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.13.0.110805 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CAC502E01A774matthewboccialcatellucentcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.80 Subject: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:44:33 -0000 --_000_CAC502E01A774matthewboccialcatellucentcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vc= cv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally intended due = to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved = forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue. There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to supp= ort VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed t= o be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for P= Ws without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV tow= ards Internet Standard status. We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the fo= llowing: * The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a = CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be opt= ional. * We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this = time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis t= hat reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation = and deployments allow. * The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PW= E3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft= actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. Regards Matthew & Andy --_000_CAC502E01A774matthewboccialcatellucentcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-n= adeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally = intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, whi= ch has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's qu= eue.

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV = 2 given the clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for th= e GAL. However, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new V= CCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW,  particularly given the= previous decision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status. 

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft autho= rs, and propose the following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, wit= h VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws with= out a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress = RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this time. At some point in the= future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that reflects the updates r= esulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PW= E3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft= actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.
Reg= ards

Matthew & Andy
--_000_CAC502E01A774matthewboccialcatellucentcom_-- From gregimirsky@gmail.com Wed Oct 19 14:58:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C32AB1F0C54 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:58:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.696 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.696 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.902, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qi+KtNmAMQHA for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02BE221F8B25 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5so1883975vws.31 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:58:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=6K9ToF1wdbhCtotT7GUIlt7E+rwzYnW7cZWPtqoFhIs=; b=cRci5dRnXPIDyadLSsQpDMXswin2KDmCCIhBbyP05JpkK4Susfqb0Nw/fwzIDkVR85 8DHTdIhoFd5IpMSLJ5hwOo/9AUZkYFx3k1HauuWSPitwqnJbOa2kty2PbJ5EdJ7o2I1u 17dKNYz370djxMlkuTLtRA/ML3ujyMCsmo7AY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.100.74 with SMTP id ew10mr8468853vdb.7.1319061481374; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.163.199 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:58:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:58:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Greg Mirsky To: "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3071c69408c2cf04afadef2c Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:58:02 -0000 --20cf3071c69408c2cf04afadef2c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Chairs and Authors, which VCCV Type of Control Channel is mandatory according to proposed changes for a PW with optional CW? Is that support of VCCV Type 4 now mandatory and Types 1, 2, and 3 are optional? Regards, Greg On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) < matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > Folks, > > It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of > draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than > originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL > in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC > editor's queue. > > There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to > support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these > seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the > GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move > VCCV towards Internet Standard status. > > We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the > following: > > - The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a > CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be > optional. > - We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this > time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis > that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation > and deployments allow. > - The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a > PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the > draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. > > Regards > > Matthew & Andy > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > --20cf3071c69408c2cf04afadef2c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Chairs and Authors,
which VCCV Type of Control Channel is mandatory= according to proposed changes for a PW with optional CW? Is that support o= f VCCV Type 4 now mandatory and Types 1, 2, and 3 are optional?

Rega= rds,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Boc= ci, Matthew (Matthew) <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:=
Folks,=

It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than orig= inally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in P= Ws, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC edit= or's queue.

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given th= e clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. How= ever, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4= (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW, =A0particularly given the previous dec= ision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=A0

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors= , and propose the following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with = VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws withou= t a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this t= ime. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis th= at reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation a= nd deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE= 3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft = actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.
Regards

Matthew & Andy

_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3


--20cf3071c69408c2cf04afadef2c-- From matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com Wed Oct 19 15:19:05 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48EFC11E8096 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:19:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.250, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BAD_LINEBREAK=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBTPzpJI47dl for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail6.alcatel.fr (smail6.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5737111E808A for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB01.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB01.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.61]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id p9JMJ1ks027693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:19:02 +0200 Received: from FRMRSSXCHMBSA3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.35]) by FRMRSSXCHHUB01.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.61]) with mapi; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:19:02 +0200 From: "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" To: "'gregimirsky@gmail.com'" Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:19:00 +0200 Thread-Topic: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyOqjEctZC/LJZwQQqk/grk244g6AAAukSJ Message-ID: <030F37126795E34DB4796609C4FEAA4A1299519184@FRMRSSXCHMBSA3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_030F37126795E34DB4796609C4FEAA4A1299519184FRMRSSXCHMBSA_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: 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"'gregimirsky@gmail.com'" Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:48:29 -0700 Thread-Topic: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyOqjEctZC/LJZwQQqk/grk244g6AAAukSJAAD8QZA= Message-ID: <2C2F1EBA8050E74EA81502D5740B4BD6BBA9840F4C@SJEXCHCCR02.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <030F37126795E34DB4796609C4FEAA4A1299519184@FRMRSSXCHMBSA3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <030F37126795E34DB4796609C4FEAA4A1299519184@FRMRSSXCHMBSA3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 62818AF93JW7385129-01-01 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_2C2F1EBA8050E74EA81502D5740B4BD6BBA9840F4CSJEXCHCCR02co_ Cc: "'pwe3@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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X-Spam-Score: -2.33 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.33 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.268, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X22uV6RwiGAT for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8206411E808A for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5so1917117vws.31 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:57:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=EWD8RT8v6FtWbCNYmzEOEvvt7fvLKmVhJzMG0fghofA=; b=nB3a7Ar4m7vKoVoUbHs2Xqnkrf1in39ng2N/GUGdIrctifTkyIl0I68nYi9HXotdmq /G6Mrocgv2N5QtM2+/wLZ2RypOdJjocElZykWFaxqcHn7Y1/XbQDsLBa+Oea+3x12Xk0 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charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Matthew, thank you for most expedient response, much appreciated. I think that if CW is supported for a PW with optional use of CW, i.e. Ethernet PW, then requirement to support Type 4 VCCV CC is artificial. I think that for such type of PW implementations support of Type 4 VCCV CC should be optional as well. Regards, Greg On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) < matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > Greg > > The intention is as follows. > > If you support the CW then type 1 must be supported. If the CW is in use, > then type 1 must be used. > > If you do not support the CW, then type 4 must be supported and type 2 or 3 > may be supported. > > So if you support a particular PW both with and without a CW then you have > to implement both type 1 and type 4 to claim conformance to vccv 2. > > Regards > > Matthew > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Greg Mirsky > *To*: Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) > *Cc*: pwe3@ietf.org > *Sent*: Wed Oct 19 23:58:01 2011 > *Subject*: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt > > Dear Chairs and Authors, > which VCCV Type of Control Channel is mandatory according to proposed > changes for a PW with optional CW? Is that support of VCCV Type 4 now > mandatory and Types 1, 2, and 3 are optional? > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) < > matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of >> draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than >> originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL >> in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC >> editor's queue. >> >> There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to >> support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these >> seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the >> GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move >> VCCV towards Internet Standard status. >> >> We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the >> following: >> >> - The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with >> a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be >> optional. >> - We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at >> this time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an >> RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when >> implementation and deployments allow. >> - The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a >> PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the >> draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. >> >> Regards >> >> Matthew & Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pwe3 mailing list >> pwe3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >> >> > --20cf307c9f08eb7a6104afaec42e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Matthew,
thank you for most expedient response, much appreciated.
= I think that if CW is supported for a PW with optional use of CW, i.e. Ethe= rnet PW, then requirement to support Type 4 VCCV CC is artificial. I think = that for such type of PW implementations support of Type 4 VCCV CC should b= e optional as well.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011= at 3:19 PM, Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com&g= t; wrote:
Greg

The intention is as follows.

If you support the CW then = type 1 must be supported. If the CW is in use, then type 1 must be used. <= br>
If you do not support the CW, then type 4 must be supported and type= 2 or 3 may be supported.

So if you support a particular PW both with and without a CW then you h= ave to implement both type 1 and type 4 to claim conformance to vccv 2.
=
Regards

Matthew

From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
To: Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)
Cc: pwe3@ietf= .org <pwe3@ietf.o= rg>
Sent: Wed Oct 19 23:58:01 2011
Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG = adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt

Dear Chairs and Authors,
which VCCV Type of Control Channel is mandatory= according to proposed changes for a PW with optional CW? Is that support o= f VCCV Type 4 now mandatory and Types 1, 2, and 3 are optional?

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Boc= ci, Matthew (Matthew) <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com= > wrote:
Folks,<= /div>

It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than orig= inally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in P= Ws, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC edit= or's queue.

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given th= e clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. How= ever, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4= (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW, =A0particularly given the previous dec= ision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=A0

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors= , and propose the following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with = VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws withou= t a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this t= ime. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis th= at reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation a= nd deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE= 3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft = actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.
Regards

Matthew & Andy

_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3



--20cf307c9f08eb7a6104afaec42e-- From cpignata@cisco.com Wed Oct 19 18:08:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BB91F0C3C for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:08:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.135 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.135 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v66yhlDe+DJ1 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10A81F0C3B for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=cpignata@cisco.com; l=7513; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1319072933; x=1320282533; h=subject:references:content-transfer-encoding:from: in-reply-to:message-id:date:to:cc:mime-version; bh=p6WqUc42+wSukckmcVLQVdiRnoAZsQxunWGKYunIc/Y=; b=kWmdLSTjbS1PZBtt/7fniyqJR3lsRMRouOquUWJ1s9iUpJyMgCuSp3zR U4szdXbI1aoDT5UH7LvsYJD/KpFtzpAEt1G0/AEXe9M/QYiaMTmBkJgwq +gzZ43dGk2mDSccInD3yKauHx/4o2bdGluERic/T/DSnjySQzDQ0GVGtx Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhAHAFd0n06tJXG8/2dsb2JhbABEhHWjEAlyAoEFgW4BAQEBAgEBAQEPARBLCwULAgEIQgICAiUwAQEEEyKHXgiXbQGMR5IIBIcHM2EEh1KMLIUziBaEKg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,375,1315180800"; d="scan'208,217";a="29635178" Received: from rcdn-core2-1.cisco.com ([173.37.113.188]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2011 01:08:53 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-202.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-202.cisco.com [72.163.62.201]) by rcdn-core2-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p9K18rV1017948; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:08:53 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-206.cisco.com ([72.163.62.213]) by xbh-rcd-202.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:08:52 -0500 Received: from 144.254.231.94 ([144.254.231.94]) by XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com ([72.163.62.213]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:08:52 +0000 References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Thread-Topic: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyOxNTeSoZlms8bTAqc0alNyYNyWQ== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail-1C621695-E86C-462D-93DE-DD9A9B6CAAF8"; charset="iso-8859-1" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:08:48 -0400 To: "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" MIME-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2011 01:08:52.0788 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5292740:01CC8EC4] Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:08:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1C621695-E86C-462D-93DE-DD9A9B6CAAF8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Chairs and Authors, Is the following understanding correct? 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if a= dvertised. 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when CW, C= C Type 4 when there is no CW. a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, respecti= vely. c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they are "= optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given the others= are mandatory. I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage requirement= s, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most of S1 and S= 1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things like Fig 1 and= Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. Thanks, Carlos P. On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" wrote: > Folks, >=20 > It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-v= ccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally intended due t= o the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved fo= rward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue. >=20 > There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to sup= port VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed t= o be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PW= s without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV towar= ds Internet Standard status.=20 >=20 > We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the f= ollowing: > The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW a= nd Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional= . > We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this time= . At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that r= eflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and de= ployments allow. > The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE3 W= G draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft actu= ally rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. > Regards >=20 > Matthew & Andy > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 --Apple-Mail-1C621695-E86C-462D-93DE-DD9A9B6CAAF8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PC9oZWFkPjxib2R5IGJnY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPjxkaXY+SGkgQ2hhaXJz IGFuZCBBdXRob3JzLDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+SXMgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyB1 bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5nIGNvcnJlY3Q/PC9kaXY+PGRpdj4xLiBUaGlzIEktRCBkZWZpbmVzIGEgbmV3 IENDIFR5cGUsIENDIFR5cGUgNC48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PiZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDthLiBUaGlzIG5ldyBD 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bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9wd2UzIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L3B3ZTM8L2E+PC9zcGFuPjxicj48L2Rpdj48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PC9ib2R5PjwvaHRtbD4= --Apple-Mail-1C621695-E86C-462D-93DE-DD9A9B6CAAF8-- From gregimirsky@gmail.com Wed Oct 19 18:16:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8F91F0C36 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:16:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.951, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MoqgHbxaTuDX for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F13D1F0C3C for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5so1984836vws.31 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:16:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JHVvHj3SG191ZXmWqoz2rymbrZa37IEZ/3P8fn5/JR0=; b=ZYkulWtQdW2Ig0oVV1JZpdJ3TDlRn57ECGhXhV1GGeVAzGuVpppp5jYJkmejFEshwx TcdhQwNb3KDmV30YaT2YbhVhw8e/7etXKpxMwtwaS1v/+Ob72JnPxxkkc8XUZ62ubc0y zzzffVGF9LH85j292lb0OtPC/xFiiw/WwrZro= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.19.236 with SMTP id i12mr8864255vde.58.1319073381279; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.163.199 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:16:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:16:21 -0700 Message-ID: From: Greg Mirsky To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3078115c52e85304afb0b430 Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:16:24 -0000 --20cf3078115c52e85304afb0b430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Carlos, I think that Type 3 might be most useful in MS-PW VCCV. Though I can not recall that MS-PW VCCV been discussed in details. Regards, Greg On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Chairs and Authors, > > Is the following understanding correct? > 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. > a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if > advertised. > 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when CW, > CC Type 4 when there is no CW. > a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. > b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, > respectively. > c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they are > "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given the > others are mandatory. > > I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. > > Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage > requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most > of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things > like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. > > Thanks, > > Carlos P. > > On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" < > matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > > Folks, > > It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of > draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than > originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL > in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC > editor's queue. > > There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to > support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these > seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the > GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move > VCCV towards Internet Standard status. > > We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the > following: > > - The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a > CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be > optional. > - We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this > time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis > that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation > and deployments allow. > - The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a > PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the > draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. > > Regards > > Matthew & Andy > > _______________________________________________ > > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > --20cf3078115c52e85304afb0b430 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carlos,
I think that Type 3 might be most useful in MS-PW VCCV. Thoug= h I can not recall that MS-PW VCCV been discussed in details.

Regard= s,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:08 P= M, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Chairs and= Authors,

Is the following understanding correct?<= /div>
1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4.
=A0 =A0a. This= new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if advertised= .
2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Typ= e 1 when CW, CC Type 4 when there is no CW.
=A0 =A0a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive.
=A0 =A0b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, r= espectively.
=A0 =A0c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used= . // I understand they are "optional" but I do not see the case w= hen they might be used given the others are mandatory.

I think I am missing something regarding 2.c.

Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates = usage requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085= (most of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Th= ings like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085.

Thanks,

Carlos P.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew = (Matthew)" <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

Folks,
<= div>
It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of d= raft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than origi= nally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PW= s, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC edito= r's queue.

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given th= e clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. How= ever, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4= (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW, =A0particularly given the previous dec= ision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=A0

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors= , and propose the following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with = VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws withou= t a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this t= ime. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis th= at reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation a= nd deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE= 3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft = actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.
Regards

Matthew & Andy
_______= ________________________________________

= pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3

_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3


--20cf3078115c52e85304afb0b430-- From cpignata@cisco.com Wed Oct 19 18:26:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2B11F0C3B for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:26:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.135 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.135 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D5s-zjSI9hKs for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB1E1F0C3F for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:26:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=cpignata@cisco.com; l=9668; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1319073991; x=1320283591; h=subject:references:content-transfer-encoding:from: in-reply-to:message-id:date:to:cc:mime-version; bh=ImHkDtjG3geK/a/K/Smeo6c5Wdsz8IRiJuEZqHbSj9s=; b=jI3PMVohhza3toRjBrH5T+YSEMqSrXLdDguIIELMSEej9yNDPYQombYO bnmIVfGjBInRRNzNKfs9YAc3BsOlol6wXBgWM+te+J9pxN/TsIb5yn5Nq Pc+VZomFRk6Wv5rapC1EdEyCjAWWQ+UybLC8NR1tK8qWZu5otGiijw9cm U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhAHAD14n06tJV2a/2dsb2JhbABEgk2CKKMZcgKBBYFuAQEBAQIBAQEBDwEQSwsFCwIBCBgqAgIhBjABAQQTIodeCJdoAYxHkggEhwczYQSHUowshTOEfYdD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,375,1315180800"; d="scan'208,217";a="29661539" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2011 01:26:31 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-201.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-201.cisco.com [72.163.62.200]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p9K1QV3e027236; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:26:31 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-206.cisco.com ([72.163.62.213]) by xbh-rcd-201.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:26:30 -0500 Received: from 72.163.63.12 ([72.163.63.12]) by XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com ([72.163.62.213]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:26:30 +0000 References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail-91E983A3-52EC-4F17-8896-64E78FBFDA09"; charset="iso-8859-1" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90CF59EC-5F80-405D-A5DD-965CED9DF257@cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyOx0uAGv3lS1NXSo+HrvNsfRuA4A== Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:26:30 -0400 To: "Greg Mirsky" MIME-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2011 01:26:30.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[4BDAFA60:01CC8EC7] Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:26:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail-91E983A3-52EC-4F17-8896-64E78FBFDA09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Greg, I agree. However, what draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2 seems to be doing is adding T= ype 3-type characteristics to Type 4: "The PW Label must set the TTL field to 1. In the case of multi-seg= ment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be set to the correct value to reac= h the intended destination PE as described in [RFC6073]." I do not recall seeing a discussion on MS-PW implications of vccv-2, even if= null. But, for SS-PW, I am still a bit confused. Thanks, Carlos P. On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:16 PM, "Greg Mirsky" wrote: > Hi Carlos, > I think that Type 3 might be most useful in MS-PW VCCV. Though I can not r= ecall that MS-PW VCCV been discussed in details. >=20 > Regards, > Greg >=20 > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: > Hi Chairs and Authors, >=20 > Is the following understanding correct? > 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. > a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if= advertised. > 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when CW= , CC Type 4 when there is no CW. > a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. > b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, respec= tively. > c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they are= "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given the othe= rs are mandatory. >=20 > I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. >=20 > Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage requireme= nts, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most of S1 and= S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things like Fig 1 a= nd Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos P. >=20 > On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" wrote: >=20 >> Folks, >>=20 >> It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-= vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally intended due= to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved f= orward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue. >>=20 >> There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to su= pport VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed t= o be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PW= s without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV towar= ds Internet Standard status.=20 >>=20 >> We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the f= ollowing: >> The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW a= nd Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional= . >> We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this tim= e. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that r= eflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and de= ployments allow. >> The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE3 W= G draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft actu= ally rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. >> Regards >>=20 >> Matthew & Andy >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> pwe3 mailing list >> pwe3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-91E983A3-52EC-4F17-8896-64E78FBFDA09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Greg,

I agree. However, what draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2 seems to be doing is adding Type 3-type characteristics to Type 4:

	"The PW Label must set the TTL field to 1. In the case
of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be set to the
correct value to reach the intended destination PE as described
in [RFC6073]."

I do not recall seeing a discussion on MS-PW implications of vccv-2, even if null. But, for SS-PW, I am still a bit confused.
Thanks,
Carlos P.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:16 PM, "Greg Mirsky" <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Carlos,
I think that Type 3 might be most useful in MS-PW VCCV. Though I can not recall that MS-PW VCCV been discussed in details.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Chairs and Authors,

Is the following understanding correct?
1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4.
   a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if advertised.
2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when CW, CC Type 4 when there is no CW.
   a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive.
   b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, respectively.
   c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they are "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given the others are mandatory.

I think I am missing something regarding 2.c.

Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085.

Thanks,

Carlos P.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

Folks,

It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue.

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW,  particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status. 

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.
Regards

Matthew & Andy
_______________________________________________

pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3

_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3


--Apple-Mail-91E983A3-52EC-4F17-8896-64E78FBFDA09-- From gregimirsky@gmail.com Wed Oct 19 21:03:07 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D0211E80C2 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:03:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.837 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.837 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.761, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KSwZIuvm49kT for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com (mail-vx0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B339711E80B6 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vcbfo1 with SMTP id fo1so2576172vcb.31 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=f4KWWtxDApO1F/Am9U4iOBxwP+YZZRhz2wwTp5IgoQ8=; b=DczVdphLTmMs1vYuFhG6aVQf4wGhTLhyHrgq7UJMGA65rl28TtfBS250pDmzcvHjxw o6uWc49n2Z2dR2CHebz8qVxb1OIYKvRCutyjByyXezHI6X0nBX72bPEumX/tiEv+Ucnr Z5d0SuA26oOxvSLnF7/YtchYymJS7sQbjEmCc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.182.65 with SMTP id ec1mr9176295vdc.75.1319083386114; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.163.199 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <90CF59EC-5F80-405D-A5DD-965CED9DF257@cisco.com> References: <90CF59EC-5F80-405D-A5DD-965CED9DF257@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:03:06 -0700 Message-ID: From: Greg Mirsky To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5486748a8913d04afb3087f Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 04:03:07 -0000 --bcaec5486748a8913d04afb3087f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Carlos, thank you for pointing, I've missed that. The text andASCII-art might be more clear. I've refreshed my memory of RFC 6073 and the provision to use Type 3 technique for OAM is from there. Hence Type 3 can be combined with both Type 1 and Type 4 VCCV. I believe I've missed that discussion on MS-PW VCCV completely. Regards, Greg On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Greg, > > I agree. However, what draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2 seems to be doing is adding > Type 3-type characteristics to Type 4: > > "The PW Label must set the TTL field to 1. In the case > of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be set to the > correct value to reach the intended destination PE as described > in [RFC6073]." > > I do not recall seeing a discussion on MS-PW implications of vccv-2, even if null. But, for SS-PW, I am still a bit confused. > > Thanks, > > Carlos P. > > On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:16 PM, "Greg Mirsky" wrote: > > Hi Carlos, > I think that Type 3 might be most useful in MS-PW VCCV. Though I can not > recall that MS-PW VCCV been discussed in details. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < > cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > >> Hi Chairs and Authors, >> >> Is the following understanding correct? >> 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. >> a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if >> advertised. >> 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when >> CW, CC Type 4 when there is no CW. >> a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. >> b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, >> respectively. >> c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they are >> "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given the >> others are mandatory. >> >> I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. >> >> Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage >> requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most >> of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things >> like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Carlos P. >> >> On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" < >> matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: >> >> Folks, >> >> It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of >> draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than >> originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL >> in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC >> editor's queue. >> >> There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to >> support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these >> seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the >> GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move >> VCCV towards Internet Standard status. >> >> We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the >> following: >> >> - The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with >> a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be >> optional. >> - We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at >> this time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an >> RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when >> implementation and deployments allow. >> - The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a >> PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the >> draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. >> >> Regards >> >> Matthew & Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pwe3 mailing list >> pwe3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pwe3 mailing list >> pwe3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >> >> > --bcaec5486748a8913d04afb3087f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carlos,
thank you for pointing, I've missed that.
The text and= ASCII-art might be more clear. I've refreshed my memory of RFC 6073 and= the provision to use Type 3 technique for OAM is from there. Hence Type 3 = can be combined with both Type 1 and Type 4 VCCV. I believe I've missed= that discussion on MS-PW VCCV completely.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011= at 6:26 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Greg,

I agree. Ho= wever, what=A0draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2 seems to be doing is adding Type 3-t= ype characteristics to Type 4:

=09 =09 =09 
	"The PW Label must set the TTL=
 field to 1. In the case
of multi-segment pseudo-wires, the PW Label TTL MUST be set to the
correct value to reach the intended destination PE as described
in [RFC6073]."

I do not recall seeing a discussion on MS-PW implications of vccv-2, eve=
n if null. But, for SS-PW, I am still a bit confused.
Thanks,<= /font>
Carlos P.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:16 PM, "Greg Mirsky" <gregimirsky@gmail.com= > wrote:

Hi Carlos,
I think t= hat Type 3 might be most useful in MS-PW VCCV. Though I can not recall that= MS-PW VCCV been discussed in details.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@ci= sco.com> wrote:
Hi Chairs and = Authors,

Is the following understanding correct?
1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4.
=A0 =A0a. This= new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if advertised= .
2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Typ= e 1 when CW, CC Type 4 when there is no CW.
=A0 =A0a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive.
=A0 =A0b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, r= espectively.
=A0 =A0c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used= . // I understand they are "optional" but I do not see the case w= hen they might be used given the others are mandatory.

I think I am missing something regarding 2.c.

Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates = usage requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085= (most of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Th= ings like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085.

Thanks,

Carlos P.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)&quo= t; <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

Folks,
<= div>
It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of d= raft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than origi= nally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PW= s, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC edito= r's queue.

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given th= e clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. How= ever, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4= (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW, =A0particularly given the previous dec= ision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=A0

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors= , and propose the following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with = VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws withou= t a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this t= ime. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis th= at reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation a= nd deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE= 3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft = actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.
Regards

Matthew & Andy
_______= ________________________________________

_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3



--bcaec5486748a8913d04afb3087f-- From tnadeau@lucidvision.com Thu Oct 20 05:32:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE421F8922 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:32:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 95xiBQypduVU for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A806821F88AB for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.144] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912801F05ED4; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:31:58 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_290931B2-A9A8-4990-8489-E715EBA82373" From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <2C2F1EBA8050E74EA81502D5740B4BD6BBA9840F4C@SJEXCHCCR02.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:31:57 -0400 Message-Id: References: <030F37126795E34DB4796609C4FEAA4A1299519184@FRMRSSXCHMBSA3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <2C2F1EBA8050E74EA81502D5740B4BD6BBA9840F4C@SJEXCHCCR02.corp.ad.broadcom.com> To: "Shahram Davari" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: "'pwe3@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:32:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_290931B2-A9A8-4990-8489-E715EBA82373 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sounds reasonable to me.=20 --Tom On Oct 19, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Shahram Davari wrote: > Matthew, >=20 > Can we change the name to VCCV-v2 (for version 2). Since it may be = confused with VCCV Type 2. > =20 > Thx > Shahram > =20 > From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 3:19 PM > To: 'gregimirsky@gmail.com' > Cc: 'pwe3@ietf.org' > Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt > =20 > Greg >=20 > The intention is as follows. >=20 > If you support the CW then type 1 must be supported. If the CW is in = use, then type 1 must be used.=20 >=20 > If you do not support the CW, then type 4 must be supported and type 2 = or 3 may be supported.=20 >=20 > So if you support a particular PW both with and without a CW then you = have to implement both type 1 and type 4 to claim conformance to vccv 2. >=20 > Regards >=20 > Matthew > =20 > From: Greg Mirsky =20 > To: Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)=20 > Cc: pwe3@ietf.org =20 > Sent: Wed Oct 19 23:58:01 2011 > Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt >=20 > Dear Chairs and Authors, > which VCCV Type of Control Channel is mandatory according to proposed = changes for a PW with optional CW? Is that support of VCCV Type 4 now = mandatory and Types 1, 2, and 3 are optional? >=20 > Regards, > Greg >=20 > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) = wrote: > Folks, > =20 > It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than = originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the = GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in = the RFC editor's queue. > =20 > There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to = support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these = seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the = GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to = move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=20 > =20 > We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose = the following: > The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a = CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be = optional. > We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this = time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an = RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when = implementation and deployments allow. > The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a = PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the = draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. > Regards > =20 > Matthew & Andy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >=20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 --Apple-Mail=_290931B2-A9A8-4990-8489-E715EBA82373 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Sounds reasonable to = me. 

= --Tom


On Oct 19, 2011, at 6:48 = PM, Shahram Davari wrote:

From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of Bocci, Matthew = (Matthew)
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 = 3:19 PM
To: ' 'pwe3@ietf.org'
Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt
 
 

If you = do not support the CW, then type 4 must be supported and type 2 or 3 may = be supported. 

So= if you support a particular PW both with and without a CW then you have = to implement both type 1 and type 4 to claim conformance to vccv = 2.

Regards

Matthew
 

From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> 
To: Bocci, = Matthew (Matthew) 
Cc: pwe3@ietf.org <pwe3@ietf.org> 
Sent: Wed Oct 19 = 23:58:01 2011
Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt

Dear Chairs and Authors,
which VCCV Type = of Control Channel is mandatory according to proposed changes for a PW = with optional CW? Is that support of VCCV Type 4 now mandatory and Types = 1, 2, and 3 are = optional?

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Bocci, Matthew = (Matthew) < 

pwe3@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:44:59 -0400 Message-Id: <8E676F29-DBA4-47A6-AA7F-C2E1EDE401B3@lucidvision.com> References: To: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:45:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_228AF982-947F-406A-BC62-DD2D8F35F07E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: > Hi Chairs and Authors, >=20 > Is the following understanding correct? > 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. > a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, = even if advertised. > 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 = when CW, CC Type 4 when there is no CW. > a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. > b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, = respectively. > c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they = are "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given = the others are mandatory. >=20 > I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. > Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage = requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 = (most of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. = Things like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. Yes, you have it right. We've simplified the number of modes (CC = types) to just two: one for when you use the CW and one for when you do = not. To achieve this, each one is now mandatory to support, so it MUST = be signaled as available in the capability advertisement and MUST be = chosen as the primary mode to use in each case. The other modes are left = as optionally supported for backwards compatibility if the hardware = cannot support the new mode (which over time should be a non-existent = case) and will ultimately be stripped from the document when we go to = standard (not RFC) status. This keeps things simple and clean, and also = supports an ordered deprecation of the older modes.=20 This approach thus satisfies the operational feedback (i.e.: = from Nick, et al)'s survey/etc... in that it simplifies the operational = use of VCCV down to two modes that can/will be run automatically with = each of the two PW type encapsulations in that when they turn up a PW = and enable VCCV, the implementation should automatically be able to bind = one VCCV mode/type to that PW and run it. No more interop operational = complexity. It also addresses those that wanted to support the older = modes for a short time longer. --Tom >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Carlos P. >=20 > On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" = wrote: >=20 >> Folks, >>=20 >> It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than = originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the = GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in = the RFC editor's queue. >>=20 >> There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need = to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, = these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 = (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous = decision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=20 >>=20 >> We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose = the following: >> The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a = CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be = optional. >> We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this = time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an = RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when = implementation and deployments allow. >> The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a = PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the = draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. >> Regards >>=20 >> Matthew & Andy >> _______________________________________________ >> pwe3 mailing list >> pwe3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 --Apple-Mail=_228AF982-947F-406A-BC62-DD2D8F35F07E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii







Thanks,

Carlos = P.
Folks,

It is about = time we closed the poll for WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than = originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the = GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in = the RFC editor's queue.

There was a lot of = support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to support VCCV = negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed to be = some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PWs = without a CW,  particularly given the previous decision to move = VCCV towards Internet Standard status. 

We = have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the = following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 = mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. = VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 = towards Internet Standard status at this time. At some point in the = future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that reflects the updates = resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and deployments = allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the = draft as a PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text = suggesting that the draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number = of modes.
Regards

Matthew = & Andy
_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/pwe3
______________= _________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/pwe3

= --Apple-Mail=_228AF982-947F-406A-BC62-DD2D8F35F07E-- From cpignata@cisco.com Thu Oct 20 08:28:45 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961FB21F8C0C for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:28:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.135 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.135 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pMgNO-dKIfMA for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495C521F8C0E for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:28:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=cpignata@cisco.com; l=15411; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1319124517; x=1320334117; h=to:mime-version:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date; bh=HN1ZP2sO+6G7J38HUrz6LmnamQdPWRhQs0Qf8FDFFyM=; b=P1hdSooJSYl0wEJtUVur4wFHxrGrWhM7h7p8L3QLhOIfOcDEwhQmZmPn Eigr/fDyJdZbkZFlMOMK3p440p+HynhnyvUrZ/W47FEcnP5LJYo9GE9SS Kf1o5kXZs9CNAT9On2C65WCXlCfgi6kP2W2NBsApz3MvR1B3xwBNMshdN o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4HANw9oE6tJXG9/2dsb2JhbABDhHWjJAl0AoEFgW4BAQEDAQEBAQ8BBQtLCwULAgEIDgoqAgICJTABAQQTIodeCJdRAYxHkW4EhxUzYQSHU4wthTOMQA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,379,1315180800"; d="scan'208,217";a="29826354" Received: from rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com ([173.37.113.189]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2011 15:28:36 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-102.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-102.cisco.com [72.163.62.139]) by rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p9KFSZqo009746; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:28:35 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-206.cisco.com ([72.163.62.213]) by xbh-rcd-102.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:28:35 -0500 Received: from 72.163.63.13 ([72.163.63.13]) by XMB-RCD-206.cisco.com ([72.163.62.213]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:28:35 +0000 To: "Thomas Nadeau" MIME-Version: 1.0 (1.0) References: <8E676F29-DBA4-47A6-AA7F-C2E1EDE401B3@lucidvision.com> In-Reply-To: <8E676F29-DBA4-47A6-AA7F-C2E1EDE401B3@lucidvision.com> Thread-Topic: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyPPO64ysngkH9kT7ypxbExZyzRlQ== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail-D315A634-9DF0-4092-9F40-0FE2CF874F15"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <41653F51-3EC0-466F-9489-304F46532B76@cisco.com> From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:28:34 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2011 15:28:35.0935 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF1CBEF0:01CC8F3C] Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:28:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail-D315A634-9DF0-4092-9F40-0FE2CF874F15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tom, Please see inline. Carlos P. On Oct 20, 2011, at 8:45 AM, "Thomas Nadeau" wrote= : >=20 > On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: >=20 >> Hi Chairs and Authors, >>=20 >> Is the following understanding correct? >> 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. >> a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even i= f advertised. >> 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when C= W, CC Type 4 when there is no CW. >> a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. >> b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, respe= ctively. >> c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they ar= e "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given the oth= ers are mandatory. >>=20 >> I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. >> Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage requirem= ents, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most of S1 an= d S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things like Fig 1 a= nd Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. >=20 > Yes, you have it right. We've simplified the number of modes (CC ty= pes) to just two: one for when you use the CW and one for when you do not. This is counter what Matthew said, which is: "remove any text suggesting that the draft actually rationalises or simplifi= es the number of modes" Also, are you saying this is basically adding a new CC Type and obsoleting t= wo CC Types? > To achieve this, each one is now mandatory to support, so it MUST be signa= led as available in the capability advertisement and MUST be chosen as the p= rimary mode to use in each case. This is the key to one of my points: this effectively makes CC Type 2 and CC= Type 3 to be never used. If you have a MUST support MUST use for when CW wo= rd, and another MUST support MUST use for when no CW, then the other two are= not used. That is different than what Matthew said: "VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional" > The other modes are left as optionally supported for backwards compatibili= ty if the hardware cannot support the new mode (which over time should be a n= on-existent case) and will ultimately be stripped from the document when we g= o to standard (not RFC) status. This keeps things simple and clean, and als= o supports an ordered deprecation of the older modes.=20 I understand the long-term proposal, but would this make things uncompliant n= ow? >=20 > This approach thus satisfies the operational feedback (i.e.: from N= ick, et al)'s survey/etc... in that it simplifies the operational use of VCC= V down to two modes that can/will be run automatically with each of the two P= W type encapsulations in that when they turn up a PW and enable VCCV, the im= plementation should automatically be able to bind one VCCV mode/type to that= PW and run it. No more interop operational complexity. It also addresses t= hose that wanted to support the older modes for a short time longer. In support of a long term simplification, it seems like either the negotiati= on gets more complex now, or Types2/3 are made obsolete? Thanks, -- Carlos. >=20 > --Tom >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> Carlos P. >>=20 >> On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" wrote: >>=20 >>> Folks, >>>=20 >>> It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3= -vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally intended du= e to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved= forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue. >>>=20 >>> There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to s= upport VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed= to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for P= Ws without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV towa= rds Internet Standard status.=20 >>>=20 >>> We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the= following: >>> The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW= and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be option= al. >>> We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this ti= me. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that= reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and d= eployments allow. >>> The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE3= WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft ac= tually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. >>> Regards >>>=20 >>> Matthew & Andy >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pwe3 mailing list >>> pwe3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >> _______________________________________________ >> pwe3 mailing list >> pwe3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >=20 --Apple-Mail-D315A634-9DF0-4092-9F40-0FE2CF874F15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PC9oZWFkPjxib2R5IGJnY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPjxkaXY+PGRpdj5Ub20s PC9kaXY+PGRpdj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5QbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS48YnI+PGJyPkNhcmxv 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score=-2.964 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.634, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KglV0An4p-ob for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F0E21F8BBE for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5so2800753vws.31 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:38:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=3BEnvw+Vww5COito6CTAR0gxWFCqXTXxfSq0CXakpcQ=; b=BJpe+M7qGCwMpfZtczEXQWZ99Tw1VDer0ZKd6olX/da/WKV+AgbXykT8Hhvmo4JN6W kvRJNKBmZuUerfiZJyRrfq093PutdtupWoVV+54XgumXKMURJLbcQiXVOpdHuzp8fbON LSHou6TKSt+jvViTVA4lyDMRwx+yfxaYWR+kg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.16.243 with SMTP id j19mr11734079vdd.109.1319135914856; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.163.199 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:38:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8E676F29-DBA4-47A6-AA7F-C2E1EDE401B3@lucidvision.com> References: <8E676F29-DBA4-47A6-AA7F-C2E1EDE401B3@lucidvision.com> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:38:34 -0700 Message-ID: From: Greg Mirsky To: Thomas Nadeau Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5014dc19d90b904afbf43b4 Cc: Carlos Pignataro , pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:38:38 -0000 --bcaec5014dc19d90b904afbf43b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Tom, could you please clarify the following: - for PW with mandatory use of CW support of Type 1 VCCV CC is mandatory and support of VCCV CC Types 2, 3, and 4 is optional - for PW with optional use of CW support of Type 4 VCCV CC is mandatory and support of VCCV CC Type 1, 2, and 3 is optional - if Type 1 and Type 4 supported and CW being used, then Type 1 VCCV CC takes precedence over Type 4 - Type 3 VCCV CC must be implicitly used on MS-PW even though not being advertised On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Thomas Nadeau wrote: > > On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: > > Hi Chairs and Authors, > > Is the following understanding correct? > 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. > a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if > advertised. > 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when CW, > CC Type 4 when there is no CW. > a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. > b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, > respectively. > c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand they are > "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used given the > others are mandatory. > > I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. > > Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage > requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most > of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things > like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. > > > Yes, you have it right. We've simplified the number of modes (CC types) to > just two: one for when you use the CW and one for when you do not. To > achieve this, each one is now mandatory to support, so it MUST be signaled > as available in the capability advertisement and MUST be chosen as the > primary mode to use in each case. The other modes are left as optionally > supported for backwards compatibility if the hardware cannot support the new > mode (which over time should be a non-existent case) and will ultimately be > stripped from the document when we go to standard (not RFC) status. This > keeps things simple and clean, and also supports an ordered deprecation of > the older modes. > > This approach thus satisfies the operational feedback (i.e.: from Nick, et > al)'s survey/etc... in that it simplifies the operational use of VCCV down > to two modes that can/will be run automatically with each of the two PW type > encapsulations in that when they turn up a PW and enable VCCV, the > implementation should automatically be able to bind one VCCV mode/type to > that PW and run it. No more interop operational complexity. It also > addresses those that wanted to support the older modes for a short time > longer. > > --Tom > > > > Thanks, > > Carlos P. > > On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" < > matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > > Folks, > > It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of > draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than > originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL > in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC > editor's queue. > > There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to > support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these > seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the > GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move > VCCV towards Internet Standard status. > > We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the > following: > > - The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a > CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be > optional. > - We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this > time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis > that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation > and deployments allow. > - The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a > PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the > draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. > > Regards > > Matthew & Andy > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > --bcaec5014dc19d90b904afbf43b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom,
could you please clarify the following:
  • for PW with m= andatory use of CW support of Type 1 VCCV CC is mandatory and support of VC= CV CC Types 2, 3, and 4 is optional
  • for PW with optional use of CW = support of Type 4 VCCV CC is mandatory and support of VCCV CC Type 1, 2, an= d 3 is optional
  • if Type 1 and Type 4 supported and CW being used, then Type 1 VCCV CC t= akes precedence over Type 4
  • Type 3 VCCV CC must be implicitly used = on MS-PW even though not being advertised


On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>= wrote:

On Oct = 19, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:

Hi Chairs and Authors,
=

Is the following understanding correct?
1. This I-= D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4.
=A0 =A0a. This new CC Type 4 = only applies when a PW does not use a CW, even if advertised.
2. = This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when CW, CC= Type 4 when there is no CW.
=A0 =A0a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive.
=A0 =A0b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, r= espectively.
=A0 =A0c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used= . // I understand they are "optional" but I do not see the case w= hen they might be used given the others are mandatory.

I think I am missing something regarding 2.c.
Also= , since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage requirements, = I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 (most of S1 and S1.= 2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. Things like Fig 1 and = Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085.

Yes, you have it right. We've simplified the number of m= odes (CC types) to just two: one for when you use the CW and one for when y= ou do not. To achieve this, each one is now mandatory to support, so it MUS= T be signaled as available in the capability advertisement and MUST be chos= en as the primary mode to use in each case. The other modes are left as opt= ionally supported for backwards compatibility if the hardware cannot suppor= t the new mode (which over time should be a non-existent case) and will ult= imately be stripped from the document when we go to standard (not RFC) stat= us. =A0This keeps things simple and clean, and also supports an ordered dep= recation of the older modes.=A0

This appro= ach thus=A0satisfies the operational feedback (i.e.: from Nick, et al)'= s survey/etc... in that it simplifies the operational use of VCCV down to t= wo modes that can/will be run automatically with each of the two PW type en= capsulations in that when they turn up a PW and enable VCCV, the implementa= tion should automatically be able to bind one VCCV mode/type to that PW and= run it. No more interop operational complexity. =A0 It also addresses thos= e that wanted to support the older modes for a short time longer.

--Tom



Thanks,

Carlos P.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" <matthew.bo= cci@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

Folks,

It is about time we closed t= he poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left thi= s open for longer than originally intended due to the ongoing discussion ab= out the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-= PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue.

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given th= e clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. How= ever, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4= (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW, =A0particularly given the previous dec= ision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=A0

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors= , and propose the following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with = VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws withou= t a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this t= ime. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis th= at reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation a= nd deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE= 3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft = actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.
Regards

Matthew & Andy
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--bcaec5014dc19d90b904afbf43b4-- From nick.delregno@verizon.com Thu Oct 20 13:01:05 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A13C511E809C for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:01:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R44SogN5qEfv for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fldsmtpe01.verizon.com (fldsmtpe01.verizon.com [140.108.26.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2AF11E807F for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:01:02 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi01.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.143]) by fldsmtpe01.verizon.com with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2011 20:01:01 +0000 From: "DelRegno, Christopher N (Nick)" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,380,1315180800"; d="scan'208,217";a="163359199" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb05.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB05.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.192]) by fldsmtpi01.verizon.com with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2011 20:01:01 +0000 Received: from FHDP1LUMXC7V42.us.one.verizon.com ([169.254.2.155]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB05.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.192]) with mapi; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:01:01 -0400 To: "'Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)'" , "pwe3@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:01:01 -0400 Thread-Topic: WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyOqEeFuVeXnO8qQYu5VZ1xXfW+xgAmeOOw Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B6FFA85F9E0CFD45B2769CF63B34261123AAD156FHDP1LUMXC7V42u_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 20:01:05 -0000 --_000_B6FFA85F9E0CFD45B2769CF63B34261123AAD156FHDP1LUMXC7V42u_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As others have pointed out as well, my biggest concern with VCCV v2 is the = MUST support and MUST use for the non-control-word case. >From the draft: A PE supporting Type 4 MAY advertise other CC types as defined in RFC5085. If the remote PE also supports Type 4, then Type 4 MUST be used superceding the Capability Advertisement Selection rules of section 7 from RFC5085. This means that Type 2 and Type 3 would never be used once Type 4 support i= s implemented. Per the Implementation Survey (percent of respondents using the CC Type): PW Encap Type 1 Type2/3 Ethernet Tagged Mode 41% 35% Ethernet Raw Mode 47% 47% Frame Relay (1:1 Mode) 18% 12% So, while Type 1 tends to predominate the implementations and usage, Types = 2 & 3 aren't insignificant. In the majority of my networks, we won't be using GAL for quite some time, = if ever. As such, the proposed VCCV v2 not only doesn't solve my network V= CCV interop issues, it forces me to essentially reprovision my entire netwo= rk when VCCV v2-compliant software releases are deployed. I think you'll find that the interop issues with VCCV aren't related to whi= ch type I choose to use, its which type is supported by the various impleme= ntations. I would recommend the following amendment: 1) If CW is used, Type 1 MUST be supported. 2) If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported. 3) If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supported. 4) Type 2 use is deprecated. If CC used should be negotiated in the following order: 1) Type 1 (default) 2) Type 4 3) Type 3 4) Type 2 use is deprecated. I can't see mandating the USE of Type 4, or any type for that matter. The = VCCV RFC should mandate SUPPORT for one type for each option (e.g. CW and n= o CW) to ensure interoperability. But given where we have been and where w= e are now, we cannot mandate the USE of CC types among many supported. The= operator has the right to choose whichever control channel he/she pleases,= based on his/her own motivations. So, assuming we make the appropriate modifications once it becomes a WG dra= ft, I support making it such. Thanks, Nick From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Boc= ci, Matthew (Matthew) Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:43 PM To: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Folks, It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vc= cv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally intended due = to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved = forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue. There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to supp= ort VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed t= o be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for P= Ws without a CW, particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV tow= ards Internet Standard status. We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the fo= llowing: * The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a = CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be opt= ional. * We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this = time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis t= hat reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation = and deployments allow. * The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PW= E3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft= actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. Regards Matthew & Andy --_000_B6FFA85F9E0CFD45B2769CF63B34261123AAD156FHDP1LUMXC7V42u_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As others= have pointed out as well, my biggest concern with VCCV v2 is the MUST supp= ort and MUST use for the non-control-word case.

 

From the draft:

A PE supporting Type 4 MAY advertise other CC types

as defined in RFC508= 5. If the remote PE also supports Type

4, then Type 4 MUST be used superceding the = Capability

Advertisement Selection rules of section 7 from RFC5085.

 

This means that Type 2 and Type 3 would never be used once T= ype 4 support is implemented.

Per the Implementati= on Survey (percent of respondents using the CC Type):

=

PW Encap      &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            Type = 1   Type2/3

Ethe= rnet Tagged Mode          = ;       41%     &nbs= p;  35%

Ethernet Raw = Mode            = ;           47% &nbs= p;      47%

Frame Relay (1:1 Mode)       =         18%     = ;   12%

&nb= sp;

So, while Type 1 tends to p= redominate the implementations and usage, Types 2 & 3 aren’t insi= gnificant.

 

In the majority of my networks, we= won’t be using GAL for quite some time, if ever.  As such, the = proposed VCCV v2 not only doesn’t solve my network VCCV interop issue= s, it forces me to essentially reprovision my entire network when VCCV v2-c= ompliant software releases are deployed.

 

I th= ink you’ll find that the interop issues with VCCV aren’t relate= d to which type I choose to use, its which type is supported by the various= implementations.

&nb= sp;

I would recommend the follo= wing amendment:

1)=       If C= W is used, Type 1 MUST be supported.

2)      If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported.

3)<= span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>      = If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supp= orted.

4) &= nbsp;    Type 2 use is= deprecated.

 

If CC used should be negotiated = in the following order:

1)      Type 1 (default)

2)      T= ype 4

3) &nbs= p;    Type 3

4)    &= nbsp; Type 2 use is deprecated.<= /o:p>

 

I can’t see mandating the USE of Type 4, or = any type for that matter.  The VCCV RFC should mandate SUPPORT for one= type for each option (e.g. CW and no CW) to ensure interoperability. = But given where we have been and where we are now, we cannot mandate the U= SE of CC types among many supported.  The operator has the right to ch= oose whichever control channel he/she pleases, based on his/her own motivat= ions.

 

So, assuming we make the appropriate mo= difications once it becomes a WG draft, I support making it such.

 

Thanks,

Nick

 <= /span>

From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mai= lto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)
= Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:43 PM
To: pwe3@ietf.or= g
Subject: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt<= o:p>

 

=

Folks,

=

 

It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of dr= aft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than origin= ally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs= , which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor= 's queue.

&= nbsp;

There was a lot = of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to support VCCV negotia= tion of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed to be some concer= ns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW,=  particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV towards Intern= et Standard status. 

 

W= e have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the fol= lowing:

  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs= with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 wil= l be optional.
  • W= e will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this time. = At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that re= flects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and de= ployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE3 W= G draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft act= ually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.

Regards

 

Matthew & Andy

= --_000_B6FFA85F9E0CFD45B2769CF63B34261123AAD156FHDP1LUMXC7V42u_-- From lucy.yong@huawei.com Fri Oct 21 07:49:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C7711E8095; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:49:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NdHenb9gklgh; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga04-in.huawei.com (usaga04-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DAE11E8088; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LTF003OH7U5E4@usaga04-in.huawei.com>; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:49:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.18.4.104]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LTF003C27U416@usaga04-in.huawei.com>; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:49:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from DFWEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.203) by dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.108) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:49:18 -0700 Received: from DFWEML506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([10.124.31.111]) by dfweml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.203]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:49:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 14:49:07 +0000 From: Lucy yong X-Originating-IP: [10.47.135.94] To: "rbridge@postel.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Message-id: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D118C9189@dfweml506-mbx> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Thread-topic: draft-yong-trill-trill-o-mpls Thread-index: AQHMj3CYxqURHQddTUWsoibTjGg4dpWG35Bw X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Subject: [PWE3] FW: draft-yong-trill-trill-o-mpls X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 14:49:19 -0000 This informational draft describes the ways of TRILL over IP/MPLS with existing technologies. It also introduces a hierarchical L2VPN solution using RBridges and MPLS. Welcome any input and look forward to discussing this in Taipei. Lucy > -----Original Message----- > From: IETF I-D Submission Tool [mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org] > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:38 PM > To: Lucy yong > Subject: Confirmation for Auto-Post of I-D draft-yong-trill-trill-o- > mpls > > Follow this link to confirm you Auto-Post of I-D draft-yong-trill- > trill-o-mpls-00 > > I-D Submission Tool URL: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/status/36166/confirm/91aeb54f7eba1da > 793569a34b077e545d6c4832b/ > > Remember that you can cancel the submission from: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/status/36166/c36c7760091522ff29e9c61 > c96c06959/ From lucy.yong@huawei.com Fri Oct 21 09:22:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1903C21F8BB1; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:22:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AIqnLoDkXTaU; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga02-in.huawei.com (usaga02-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3BB21F8BA8; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LTF00EZIC5WA8@usaga02-in.huawei.com>; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:22:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.18.4.104]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPS id <0LTF00FZGC5246@usaga02-in.huawei.com>; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:22:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from DFWEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.102) by dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.107) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:22:18 -0700 Received: from DFWEML506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([10.124.31.111]) by DFWEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:22:19 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:22:18 +0000 From: Lucy yong X-Originating-IP: [10.47.140.102] To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" Message-id: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D118C9286@dfweml506-mbx> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Accept-Language: en-US Thread-topic: draft-mack-crane-l2vpn-spb-o-mpls-00.txt Thread-index: AQHMj29AvvOh0vnNckaKEbxj+lfcpZWG+9qQ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Subject: [PWE3] FW: draft-mack-crane-l2vpn-spb-o-mpls-00.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:22:49 -0000 > > Abstract: > This informational document describes ways to interconnect a > Shortest Path Tree (SPT) Region over WAN connections using MPLS > Pseudo Wires (PWs) with existing SPB and MPLS standards. It also > describes how a combination of SPB and MPLS can provide a > hierarchical scalable L2VPN. > Welcome the feedback on this draft. Lucy From david.i.allan@ericsson.com Fri Oct 21 13:42:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D1921F8AE9; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:42:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oCrMfKBMHQy6; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F0421F8AD6; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p9LKg4fv020935; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 15:42:08 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.120]) by eusaamw0707.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.32]) with mapi; Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:42:07 -0400 From: David Allan I To: Lucy yong , "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:42:07 -0400 Thread-Topic: draft-mack-crane-l2vpn-spb-o-mpls-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHMj29AvvOh0vnNckaKEbxj+lfcpZWG+9qQgABE3HA= Message-ID: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD5223F7BD3F@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D118C9286@dfweml506-mbx> In-Reply-To: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D118C9286@dfweml506-mbx> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PWE3] draft-mack-crane-l2vpn-spb-o-mpls-00.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:42:11 -0000 Hi Lucy: In general I'm supportive of this draft.=20 My first blush comment is that what is missing is a multi-site scenario as = per Figure 3 but with B-tagged ACs and using an emulated LAN service... In other words, a hierarchical model but not requiring a fully integrated S= PB/PE node and/or a PW mesh per B-VID, as all B-VIDs are common to all site= s. I'd be happy to work with the authors to incorporate such a model... Cheers Dave -----Original Message----- From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Luc= y yong Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 9:22 AM To: l2vpn@ietf.org; pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] FW: draft-mack-crane-l2vpn-spb-o-mpls-00.txt >=20 > Abstract: > This informational document describes ways to interconnect a > Shortest Path Tree (SPT) Region over WAN connections using MPLS > Pseudo Wires (PWs) with existing SPB and MPLS standards. It also > describes how a combination of SPB and MPLS can provide a > hierarchical scalable L2VPN. >=20 Welcome the feedback on this draft. Lucy _______________________________________________ pwe3 mailing list pwe3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 From loa@pi.nu Sun Oct 23 10:48:21 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1336821F8B2D for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:48:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qb+f4pJNsPcb for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (mail.pi.nu [194.71.127.148]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7999E21F8B29 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.17.113.226] (207.47.24.2.static.nextweb.net [207.47.24.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D39342A8004; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:48:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4EA4535E.5010708@pi.nu> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:48:14 -0700 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: MPLS-TP ad hoc team , pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] poll on draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-ring-protection X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:48:21 -0000 Working Group, this is to start a two week poll to see if there is support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-ring-protection an mpls working group draft. Pleased send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). This poll ends Sun Nov 6. /Loa for the mpls wg chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 +46 767 72 92 13 From nurit.sprecher@nsn.com Sun Oct 23 10:50:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134E321F8B38 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:50:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G01oJg2mMnXo for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F02921F8B2D for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9NHoZf1009938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:50:36 +0200 Received: from demuexc023.nsn-intra.net (demuexc023.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.36]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9NHoZkc011410; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:50:35 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC014.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.25]) by demuexc023.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:50:22 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:50:20 +0200 Message-ID: <077E41CFFD002C4CAB7DFA4386A53264049FFCB5@DEMUEXC014.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <4EA4535E.5010708@pi.nu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PWE3] poll on draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-ring-protection Thread-Index: AcyRq/wYzJapjeZgTOC1mfDo1QVQQwAADqRQ References: <4EA4535E.5010708@pi.nu> From: "Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)" To: "ext Loa Andersson" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2011 17:50:22.0247 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C823370:01CC91AC] Cc: MPLS-TP ad hoc team , pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] poll on draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-ring-protection X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:50:38 -0000 Yes, support.=20 -----Original Message----- From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Loa Andersson Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:48 PM To: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Cc: MPLS-TP ad hoc team; pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] poll on draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-ring-protection Working Group, this is to start a two week poll to see if there is support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-ring-protection an mpls working group draft. Pleased send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). This poll ends Sun Nov 6. /Loa for the mpls wg chairs --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 +46 767 72 92 13 _______________________________________________ pwe3 mailing list pwe3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 From lucy.yong@huawei.com Sun Oct 23 17:42:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28B921F8B6D; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:42:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZC8Q6YvtCh2g; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usaga02-in.huawei.com (usaga02-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6080921F8B66; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LTJ0037XOME5H@usaga02-in.huawei.com>; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.18.4.104]) by usaga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPS id <0LTJ0083LOMEBJ@usaga02-in.huawei.com>; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:42:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from DFWEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.101) by dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.108) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:42:14 -0700 Received: from DFWEML506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([10.124.31.111]) by DFWEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::f07f:889f:78ef:8df3%13]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:42:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:42:07 +0000 From: Lucy yong X-Originating-IP: [10.47.134.111] To: "rbridge@postel.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Message-id: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D118CA779@dfweml506-mbx> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Accept-Language: en-US Thread-topic: New Version Notification for draft-yong-trill-trill-o-mpls-00.txt Thread-index: AQHMkeS0mFiZmBp3OUSp5Ysw9MxDkZWKpzIg X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Subject: [PWE3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-yong-trill-trill-o-mpls-00.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:42:17 -0000 > A new version of I-D, draft-yong-trill-trill-o-mpls-00.txt has been > successfully submitted by Lucy Yong and posted to the IETF repository. > > Filename: draft-yong-trill-trill-o-mpls > Revision: 00 > Title: Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links (TRILL) > over an MPLS PSN (Packet Switched Network) > Creation date: 2011-10-23 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 14 > > Abstract: > This informational document describes ways to interconnect TRILL > RBridges over WAN connections by using MPLS Pseudo Wire (PW) or > Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) with existing TRILL and MPLS > standards. It also describes the combination of RBridge and MPLS to > provide a hierarchical scalable L2VPN. > > Your input on this draft are welcome. Lucy From tnadeau@lucidvision.com Mon Oct 24 06:41:35 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B99621F8DAA for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 06:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vw5VG5vtgeW for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7999E21F8DE3 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.144] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64201F1A2F8; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1847A130-9ED5-426A-8B4C-2E914071467F" From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <41653F51-3EC0-466F-9489-304F46532B76@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:41:31 -0400 Message-Id: <9D874CC6-D937-43FB-B53B-32AB8706648E@lucidvision.com> References: <8E676F29-DBA4-47A6-AA7F-C2E1EDE401B3@lucidvision.com> <41653F51-3EC0-466F-9489-304F46532B76@cisco.com> To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:41:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1847A130-9ED5-426A-8B4C-2E914071467F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Oct 20, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: > Tom, >=20 > Please see inline. >=20 > Carlos P. >=20 > On Oct 20, 2011, at 8:45 AM, "Thomas Nadeau" = wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Chairs and Authors, >>>=20 >>> Is the following understanding correct? >>> 1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type 4. >>> a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW does not use a CW, = even if advertised. >>> 2. This document updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 = when CW, CC Type 4 when there is no CW. >>> a. Basically Type 1 and Type 4 are mutually exclusive. >>> b. Type 1 and Type 4 are mandatory for then with and without CW, = respectively. >>> c. Type 2 and Type 3 are effectively not used. // I understand = they are "optional" but I do not see the case when they might be used = given the others are mandatory. >>>=20 >>> I think I am missing something regarding 2.c. >>> Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and 2. updates usage = requirements, I think that removing all the duplication from RFC 5085 = (most of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability and modularity. = Things like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC 5085. >>=20 >> Yes, you have it right. We've simplified the number of modes (CC = types) to just two: one for when you use the CW and one for when you do = not. >=20 > This is counter what Matthew said, which is: > "remove any text suggesting that the draft actually rationalises or = simplifies the number of modes" > Also, are you saying this is basically adding a new CC Type and = obsoleting two CC Types? What we want to do is make VCCV v2 only contain the two modes = with all others being optional (i.e.: "MAY" IETF language).=20 >> To achieve this, each one is now mandatory to support, so it MUST be = signaled as available in the capability advertisement and MUST be chosen = as the primary mode to use in each case. >=20 > This is the key to one of my points: this effectively makes CC Type 2 = and CC Type 3 to be never used. If you have a MUST support MUST use for = when CW word, and another MUST support MUST use for when no CW, then the = other two are not used. That is different than what Matthew said: > "VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional" I think what Matthew was saying is that we just do not say that = we "rationalize or simplify" the number of modes. That doesn't mean we = obsolete them at all. It was our intent to make all of the others = optional until such time that we went to standard with the vccv-v2 rfc. = At that time we would make the first vccv RFC "obsolete" or "historic". >> The other modes are left as optionally supported for backwards = compatibility if the hardware cannot support the new mode (which over = time should be a non-existent case) and will ultimately be stripped from = the document when we go to standard (not RFC) status. This keeps things = simple and clean, and also supports an ordered deprecation of the older = modes.=20 >=20 > I understand the long-term proposal, but would this make things = uncompliant now? No. VCCV 2 describes a new preferred order and CC mode, but = doesn't obsolete the older modes. So implementations that work with the = older modes are fine. What we change is only how a "vccv-v2 compliant" = device chooses to use them, which which modes are used by default. = Section 4 explains that. --Tom >=20 >>=20 >> This approach thus satisfies the operational feedback (i.e.: = from Nick, et al)'s survey/etc... in that it simplifies the operational = use of VCCV down to two modes that can/will be run automatically with = each of the two PW type encapsulations in that when they turn up a PW = and enable VCCV, the implementation should automatically be able to bind = one VCCV mode/type to that PW and run it. No more interop operational = complexity. It also addresses those that wanted to support the older = modes for a short time longer. >=20 > In support of a long term simplification, it seems like either the = negotiation gets more complex now, or Types2/3 are made obsolete? >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > -- Carlos. >=20 >>=20 >> --Tom >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> Carlos P. >>>=20 >>> On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Folks, >>>>=20 >>>> It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than = originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the = GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in = the RFC editor's queue. >>>>=20 >>>> There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need = to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, = these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 = (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous = decision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and = propose the following: >>>> The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with = a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will = be optional. >>>> We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at = this time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an = RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when = implementation and deployments allow. >>>> The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a = PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the = draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes. >>>> Regards >>>>=20 >>>> Matthew & Andy >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pwe3 mailing list >>>> pwe3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pwe3 mailing list >>> pwe3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_1847A130-9ED5-426A-8B4C-2E914071467F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Tom,

Please see = inline.

Carlos P.

On Oct 20, 2011, at 8:45 AM, = "Thomas Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> = wrote:


On Oct 19, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Carlos = Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:

Hi Chairs and = Authors,

Is the following understanding = correct?
1. This I-D defines a new CC Type, CC Type = 4.
   a. This new CC Type 4 only applies when a PW = does not use a CW, even if advertised.
2. This document = updates the usage rules of CC Types. // CC Type 1 when CW, CC Type 4 = when there is no CW.
   a. Basically Type 1 and Type = 4 are mutually exclusive.
   b. Type 1 and Type 4 = are mandatory for then with and without CW, = respectively.
   c. Type 2 and Type 3 are = effectively not used. // I understand they are "optional" but I do not = see the case when they might be used given the others are = mandatory.

I think I am missing something = regarding 2.c.
Also, since this document 1. adds a CC Type and = 2. updates usage requirements, I think that removing all the duplication = from RFC 5085 (most of S1 and S1.2) would greatly improve readability = and modularity. Things like Fig 1 and Fig 2 are normative from RFC = 5085.

Yes, you = have it right. We've simplified the number of modes (CC types) to just = two: one for when you use the CW and one for when you do = not.

This is counter = what Matthew said, which is:
  • "remove any text suggesting that the draft = actually rationalises or simplifies the number of = modes"
Also= , are you saying this is basically adding a new CC Type and obsoleting = two CC Types?

What we = want to do is make VCCV v2 only contain the two modes with all others = being optional (i.e.: "MAY" IETF = language). 

To = achieve this, each one is now mandatory to support, so it MUST be = signaled as available in the capability advertisement and MUST be chosen = as the primary mode to use in each case. =

This is the key to = one of my points: this effectively makes CC Type 2 and CC Type 3 to be = never used. If you have a MUST support MUST use for when CW word, and = another MUST support MUST use for when no CW, then the other two are not = used. That is different than what Matthew said:
  • "VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be = optional"
= I think what Matthew was saying is that we just do not say that = we "rationalize or simplify" the number of modes.  That doesn't = mean we obsolete them at all.  It was our intent to make all of the = others optional until such time that we went to standard with the = vccv-v2 rfc. At that time we would make the first vccv RFC "obsolete" or = "historic".

The = other modes are left as optionally supported for backwards compatibility = if the hardware cannot support the new mode (which over time should be a = non-existent case) and will ultimately be stripped from the document = when we go to standard (not RFC) status.  This keeps things simple = and clean, and also supports an ordered deprecation of the older = modes. 

I = understand the long-term proposal, but would this make things = uncompliant now?

No. =  VCCV 2 describes a new preferred order and CC mode, but doesn't = obsolete the older modes.  So implementations that work with the = older modes are fine. What we change is only how a "vccv-v2 compliant" = device chooses to use them, which which modes are used by default. =  Section 4 explains that.

= --Tom




This approach thus satisfies = the operational feedback (i.e.: from Nick, et al)'s survey/etc... in = that it simplifies the operational use of VCCV down to two modes that = can/will be run automatically with each of the two PW type = encapsulations in that when they turn up a PW and enable VCCV, the = implementation should automatically be able to bind one VCCV mode/type = to that PW and run it. No more interop operational complexity.   It = also addresses those that wanted to support the older modes for a short = time longer.

In = support of a long term simplification, it seems like either the = negotiation gets more complex now, or Types2/3 are made = obsolete?

Thanks,

-- = Carlos.


= --Tom



Thanks,

Carlos = P.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM, "Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)" = <matthew.bocci@alcatel-luc= ent.com> wrote:

Folks,

It is about = time we closed the poll for WG adoption of = draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than = originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the = GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in = the RFC editor's queue.

There was a lot of = support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to support VCCV = negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed to be = some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PWs = without a CW,  particularly given the previous decision to move = VCCV towards Internet Standard status. 

We = have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the = following:
  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 = mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. = VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 = towards Internet Standard status at this time. At some point in the = future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that reflects the updates = resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and deployments = allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the = draft as a PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text = suggesting that the draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number = of modes.
Regards

Matthew = & Andy
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= --Apple-Mail=_1847A130-9ED5-426A-8B4C-2E914071467F-- From lizho.jin@gmail.com Mon Oct 24 09:20:45 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11CC11F0C4F for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:20:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.226 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.226 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.372, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dDsaYrNWAdWm for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com (mail-qw0-f44.google.com [209.85.216.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30DC1F0C49 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qadc10 with SMTP id c10so3071658qad.31 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:20:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7GiTgx8A2L/lmypVRPSV9UVRtLyksqrgt3o1v+/JTEw=; b=OGTNETudrlMKnoKp9dHHzxRxIQgDp225LeBbCLlNMvm3uV1Y//ZrO6ATn5qwC/COgb BzBBW1P/XqnDGyd0ehDD5324/wp+8OyF4qfLzc6PJkAPBeCm/+SSp9uy9G5HeaPnCxLb +sdjyrL48rMHUes8qrzhlhpCwpB7LfwsROuJc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.215.1 with SMTP id hc1mr19622191qab.41.1319473242940; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.54.147 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 00:20:42 +0800 Message-ID: From: Lizhong Jin To: nick.delregno@verizon.com, matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf300fb1abefa37404b00dcd2f Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:20:45 -0000 --20cf300fb1abefa37404b00dcd2f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Nick, 2) If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported. 3) If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supported. The above two points still confuse me. If CW is not used and type 4 MUST be used, why type 3 is optional? Thanks Lizhong > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:01:01 -0400 > From: "DelRegno, Christopher N (Nick)" > To: "'Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)'" , > "pwe3@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt > Message-ID: > < > B6FFA85F9E0CFD45B2769CF63B34261123AAD156@FHDP1LUMXC7V42.us.one.verizon.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > As others have pointed out as well, my biggest concern with VCCV v2 is the > MUST support and MUST use for the non-control-word case. > > A PE supporting Type 4 MAY advertise other CC types > as defined in RFC5085. If the remote PE also supports Type > 4, then Type 4 MUST be used superceding the Capability > Advertisement Selection rules of section 7 from RFC5085. > > This means that Type 2 and Type 3 would never be used once Type 4 support > i= > s implemented. > Per the Implementation Survey (percent of respondents using the CC Type): > PW Encap Type 1 Type2/3 > Ethernet Tagged Mode 41% 35% > Ethernet Raw Mode 47% 47% > Frame Relay (1:1 Mode) 18% 12% > > So, while Type 1 tends to predominate the implementations and usage, Types > = > 2 & 3 aren't insignificant. > > In the majority of my networks, we won't be using GAL for quite some time, > = > if ever. As such, the proposed VCCV v2 not only doesn't solve my network > V= > CCV interop issues, it forces me to essentially reprovision my entire > netwo= > rk when VCCV v2-compliant software releases are deployed. > > I think you'll find that the interop issues with VCCV aren't related to > whi= > ch type I choose to use, its which type is supported by the various > impleme= > ntations. > > I would recommend the following amendment: > > 1) If CW is used, Type 1 MUST be supported. > > 2) If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported. > > 3) If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supported. > > 4) Type 2 use is deprecated. > > If CC used should be negotiated in the following order: > > 1) Type 1 (default) > > 2) Type 4 > > 3) Type 3 > > 4) Type 2 use is deprecated. > > I can't see mandating the USE of Type 4, or any type for that matter. The > = > VCCV RFC should mandate SUPPORT for one type for each option (e.g. CW and > n= > o CW) to ensure interoperability. But given where we have been and where > w= > e are now, we cannot mandate the USE of CC types among many supported. > The= > operator has the right to choose whichever control channel he/she > pleases,= > based on his/her own motivations. > > So, assuming we make the appropriate modifications once it becomes a WG > dra= > ft, I support making it such. > > Thanks, > Nick > --20cf300fb1abefa37404b00dcd2f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Nick,
2) =A0 =A0 =A0If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported.

3) = =A0 =A0 =A0If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supported.
The above two points still confuse me. If CW is not used and type 4 MU= ST be used, why type 3 is optional?
=A0
Thanks
Lizhong

=A0
--------------------------------= --------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:01:= 01 -0400
From: "DelRegno, Christopher N (Nick)" <nick.delregno@verizon.com>
To: "'= Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)'" <matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com>,
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0"pwe3@ietf.org&quo= t; <pwe3@ietf.org>
Subject: R= e: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt
Message-ID:
= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<B6FFA85F9E0CFD45B2769CF63B34261123AAD= 156@FHDP1LUMXC7V42.us.one.verizon.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"

As othe= rs have pointed out as well, my biggest concern with VCCV v2 is the MUST su= pport and MUST use for the non-control-word case.
=A0
A PE supporting Type 4 MAY adver= tise other CC types
as defined in RFC5085. If the remote PE also support= s Type
4, then Type 4 MUST be used superceding the Capability
Advertisement Sel= ection rules of section 7 from RFC5085.

This means that Type 2 and T= ype 3 would never be used once Type 4 support i=3D
s implemented.
Per= the Implementation Survey (percent of respondents using the CC Type):
PW Encap =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Type 1 =A0 Type2/3
Ethernet Tagged Mode =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 41% =A0 =A0 =A0 =A035%
Ethernet Raw Mode =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 47% =A0 =A0 =A0 =A047%
Frame Relay = (1:1 Mode) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 18% =A0 =A0 =A0 =A012%

So, while Type 1 tends to predominate the implementations and usage, Ty= pes =3D
2 & 3 aren't insignificant.

In the majority of my= networks, we won't be using GAL for quite some time, =3D
if ever. = =A0As such, the proposed VCCV v2 not only doesn't solve my network V=3D=
CCV interop issues, it forces me to essentially reprovision my entire netwo= =3D
rk when VCCV v2-compliant software releases are deployed.

I t= hink you'll find that the interop issues with VCCV aren't related t= o whi=3D
ch type I choose to use, its which type is supported by the various impleme= =3D
ntations.

I would recommend the following amendment:

1= ) =A0 =A0 =A0If CW is used, Type 1 MUST be supported.

2) =A0 =A0 =A0= If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported.

3) =A0 =A0 =A0If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supported.

4) =A0= =A0 =A0Type 2 use is deprecated.

If CC used should be negotiated in= the following order:

1) =A0 =A0 =A0Type 1 (default)

2) =A0 = =A0 =A0Type 4

3) =A0 =A0 =A0Type 3

4) =A0 =A0 =A0Type 2 use is deprecated.

= I can't see mandating the USE of Type 4, or any type for that matter. = =A0The =3D
VCCV RFC should mandate SUPPORT for one type for each option = (e.g. CW and n=3D
o CW) to ensure interoperability. =A0But given where we have been and where= w=3D
e are now, we cannot mandate the USE of CC types among many suppor= ted. =A0The=3D
=A0operator has the right to choose whichever control cha= nnel he/she pleases,=3D
=A0based on his/her own motivations.

So, assuming we make the approp= riate modifications once it becomes a WG dra=3D
ft, I support making it = such.

Thanks,
Nick
--20cf300fb1abefa37404b00dcd2f-- From david.sinicrope@ericsson.com Mon Oct 24 10:34:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB931F0C58 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:34:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wdye59TcjUTP for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0A31F0C3F for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p9OHYSDp026471 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:34:36 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.120]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:34:00 -0400 From: David Sinicrope To: "IETF.PWE3" Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:33:59 -0400 Thread-Topic: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei Thread-Index: AcyScx3PEJkqOQC/TiiHRRDyhq4mmA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.13.0.110805 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:34:43 -0000 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/agenda/pwe3.txt The link above is to the PWE3 agenda as of noon today EDT. Please let me know if you need a slot. Thanks, Dave -----Original Message----- From: David A Sinicrope Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:37:38 -0400 To: "IETF.PWE3" Subject: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei >Hi All, > >Please let me know if you would like a time slot for the IETF 82 PWE3 >session by replying to this email with: > >* the desired duration, >* topic/draft title, and >* presenter for each slot requested > >Thanks, >Dave > >_______________________________________________ >pwe3 mailing list >pwe3@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 From Manuel.Paul@telekom.de Tue Oct 25 07:02:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C0A21F8A71 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 07:02:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0PMQK6bBfhVe for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 07:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail33.telekom.de (tcmail33.telekom.de [194.25.30.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0EDC21F891D for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 07:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he113414.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.65.80]) by tcmail31.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 25 Oct 2011 16:01:56 +0200 Received: from HE101452.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([169.254.2.13]) by HE113414.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([2002:7cd:4150::7cd:4150]) with mapi; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:01:56 +0200 From: To: , , Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:01:55 +0200 Thread-Topic: WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt Thread-Index: AcyOqEeFuVeXnO8qQYu5VZ1xXfW+xgAmeOOwAPa4XRA= Message-ID: <9435EDACD941174099E143BCA2BCD615F82873F9F9@HE101452.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> 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by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA9D21F8AE6 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 06:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from bonfire.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-sj.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p9RDjfQJ005354 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 06:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.117.115.60] (rtp-cpignata-89111.cisco.com [10.117.115.60]) by bonfire.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p9RDje8E017936; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 06:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4EA96072.7010203@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:45:22 -0400 From: Carlos Pignataro Organization: cisco Systems, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.24) Gecko/20100228 Thunderbird/2.0.0.24 Mnenhy/0.7.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "DelRegno, Christopher N (Nick)" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.2 X-Face: *3w8NvnQ|kS~V{&{U}$?G9U9EJQ8p9)O[1[1F'1i>XIc$5FR!hdAIf5}'Xu-3`^Z']h0J* ccB'fl/XJYR[+,Z+jj`4%06nd'y9[ln&ScJT5S+O18e^ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010805060102080704090207" Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:45:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010805060102080704090207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick, authors, One question and one observation: Q: Is there data in the implementation survey that quantifies usage for CC Type 2 and CC Type 3 separate? Note: Basically what you are proposing, if I understand it correctly, are two things: 1. Specify CC Type Support requirement -- this is new, does not exist in RFC 5085, and I think you make a great observation as to the root cause of interop issues. 2. Specify a usage precedence/preference order -- this is not new, see S7 of RFC5085. Observation: Based on the note above, adding a CC Type 4 is basically orthogonal to solving issues to the other three CC Types. In fact, it adds a new entry in the preference list. Did I get this right? So I think either this doc attempts do deprecate two CC Types, or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, this is adding a new CC Type without changing much else? Thanks, -- Carlos. On 10/20/2011 4:01 PM, DelRegno, Christopher N (Nick) wrote: > > As others have pointed out as well, my biggest concern with VCCV v2 is > the MUST support and MUST use for the non-control-word case. > > > > From the draft: > > A PE supporting Type 4 MAY advertise other CC types > > as defined in RFC5085. If the remote PE also supports Type > > 4, then Type 4 MUST be used superceding the Capability > > Advertisement Selection rules of section 7 from RFC5085. > > > > This means that Type 2 and Type 3 would never be used once Type 4 > support is implemented. > > Per the Implementation Survey (percent of respondents using the CC Type): > > PW Encap Type 1 Type2/3 > > Ethernet Tagged Mode 41% 35% > > Ethernet Raw Mode 47% 47% > > Frame Relay (1:1 Mode) 18% 12% > > > > So, while Type 1 tends to predominate the implementations and usage, > Types 2 & 3 aren't insignificant. > > > > In the majority of my networks, we won't be using GAL for quite some > time, if ever. As such, the proposed VCCV v2 not only doesn't solve > my network VCCV interop issues, it forces me to essentially > reprovision my entire network when VCCV v2-compliant software releases > are deployed. > > > > I think you'll find that the interop issues with VCCV aren't related > to which type I choose to use, its which type is supported by the > various implementations. > > > > I would recommend the following amendment: > > 1) If CW is used, Type 1 MUST be supported. > > 2) If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported. > > 3) If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supported. > > 4) Type 2 use is deprecated. > > > > If CC used should be negotiated in the following order: > > 1) Type 1 (default) > > 2) Type 4 > > 3) Type 3 > > 4) Type 2 use is deprecated. > > > > I can't see mandating the USE of Type 4, or any type for that matter. > The VCCV RFC should mandate SUPPORT for one type for each option (e.g. > CW and no CW) to ensure interoperability. But given where we have > been and where we are now, we cannot mandate the USE of CC types among > many supported. The operator has the right to choose whichever > control channel he/she pleases, based on his/her own motivations. > > > > So, assuming we make the appropriate modifications once it becomes a > WG draft, I support making it such. > > > > Thanks, > > Nick > > > > *From:*pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *Bocci, Matthew (Matthew) > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:43 PM > *To:* pwe3@ietf.org > *Subject:* [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt > > > > Folks, > > > > It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of > draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than > originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the > GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in > the RFC editor's queue. > > > > There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to > support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these > seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for > the GAL) for PWs without a CW, particularly given the previous > decision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status. > > > > We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose > the following: > > * The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs > with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 > and 3 will be optional. > * We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at > this time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with > an RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as > and when implementation and deployments allow. > * The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as > a PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting > that the draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of > modes. > > Regards > > > > Matthew & Andy > > > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 --------------010805060102080704090207 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick, authors,

One question and one observation:

Q: Is there data in the implementation survey that quantifies usage for CC Type 2 and CC Type 3 separate?

Note: Basically what you are proposing, if I understand it correctly, are two things:
  1. Specify CC Type Support requirement -- this is new, does not exist in RFC 5085, and I think you make a great observation as to the root cause of interop issues.
  2. Specify a usage precedence/preference order -- this is not new, see S7 of RFC5085.

Observation: Based on the note above, adding a CC Type 4 is basically orthogonal to solving issues to the other three CC Types. In fact, it adds a new entry in the preference list. Did I get this right?

So I think either this doc attempts do deprecate two CC Types, or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, this is adding a new CC Type without changing much else?

Thanks,

-- Carlos.


On 10/20/2011 4:01 PM, DelRegno, Christopher N (Nick) wrote:

As others have pointed out as well, my biggest concern with VCCV v2 is the MUST support and MUST use for the non-control-word case.

 

From the draft:

A PE supporting Type 4 MAY advertise other CC types

as defined in RFC5085. If the remote PE also supports Type

4, then Type 4 MUST be used superceding the Capability

Advertisement Selection rules of section 7 from RFC5085.

 

This means that Type 2 and Type 3 would never be used once Type 4 support is implemented.

Per the Implementation Survey (percent of respondents using the CC Type):

PW Encap                                            Type 1   Type2/3

Ethernet Tagged Mode                 41%        35%

Ethernet Raw Mode                       47%        47%

Frame Relay (1:1 Mode)               18%        12%

 

So, while Type 1 tends to predominate the implementations and usage, Types 2 & 3 aren’t insignificant.

 

In the majority of my networks, we won’t be using GAL for quite some time, if ever.  As such, the proposed VCCV v2 not only doesn’t solve my network VCCV interop issues, it forces me to essentially reprovision my entire network when VCCV v2-compliant software releases are deployed.

 

I think you’ll find that the interop issues with VCCV aren’t related to which type I choose to use, its which type is supported by the various implementations.

 

I would recommend the following amendment:

1)      If CW is used, Type 1 MUST be supported.

2)      If CW is not used, Type 4 MUST be supported.

3)      If CW is not used, Type 3 MAY be supported.

4)      Type 2 use is deprecated.

 

If CC used should be negotiated in the following order:

1)      Type 1 (default)

2)      Type 4

3)      Type 3

4)      Type 2 use is deprecated.

 

I can’t see mandating the USE of Type 4, or any type for that matter.  The VCCV RFC should mandate SUPPORT for one type for each option (e.g. CW and no CW) to ensure interoperability.  But given where we have been and where we are now, we cannot mandate the USE of CC types among many supported.  The operator has the right to choose whichever control channel he/she pleases, based on his/her own motivations.

 

So, assuming we make the appropriate modifications once it becomes a WG draft, I support making it such.

 

Thanks,

Nick

 

From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:43 PM
To: pwe3@ietf.org
Subject: [PWE3] WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt

 

Folks,

 

It is about time we closed the poll for WG adoption of draft-nadeau-pwe3-vccv-2-02.txt. We had left this open for longer than originally intended due to the ongoing discussion about the use of the GAL in PWs, which has moved forward now that the GAL-in-PW draft is in the RFC editor's queue.

 

There was a lot of support for adopting VCCV 2 given the clear need to support VCCV negotiation of a channel type for the GAL. However, these seemed to be some concerns around mandating the new VCCV Type 4 (for the GAL) for PWs without a CW,  particularly given the previous decision to move VCCV towards Internet Standard status. 

 

We have discussed how to proceed with the draft authors, and propose the following:

  • The WG should adopt VCCV 2, with VCCV Type 1 mandatory for PWs with a CW and Type 4 mandatory for Pws without a CW. VCCV Type 2 and 3 will be optional.
  • We will not progress RFC5085 towards Internet Standard status at this time. At some point in the future, we will pursue this with an RFC5085bis that reflects the updates resulting from VCCV 2, as and when implementation and deployments allow.
  • The authors of VCCV 2 should upload a new version of the draft as a PWE3 WG draft, but ensure that they remove any text suggesting that the draft actually rationalises or simplifies the number of modes.

Regards

 

Matthew & Andy



_______________________________________________
pwe3 mailing list
pwe3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3
--------------010805060102080704090207-- From jie.dong@huawei.com Fri Oct 28 02:02:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B0521F8ABE for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:02:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0iwT7yjCQr1b for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26DE21F85A7 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 02:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LTR00F8NQEQOV@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for pwe3@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:01:39 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LTR005ZSQEQRK@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for pwe3@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:01:38 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxeml206-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA) with ESMTP id AER80124; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:00:48 +0800 Received: from SZXEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.138) by szxeml206-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.270.1; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:00:40 +0800 Received: from SZXEML509-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.220]) by szxeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.138]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:00:36 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 09:00:35 +0000 From: Jie Dong X-Originating-IP: [10.108.4.57] To: "pwe3@ietf.org" Message-id: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927229F1CA8@szxeml509-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: zh-CN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Thread-topic: New Version Notification for draft-dong-pwe3-redundancy-spe-00.txt Thread-index: AQHMkixiRW674Eg40kOaBWVQC79HYJWReKxA X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: [PWE3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-dong-pwe3-redundancy-spe-00.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 09:02:57 -0000 Hi all, A new draft draft-dong-pwe3-redundancy-spe-00 has been submitted. The url is: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dong-pwe3-redundancy-spe-00 Your comments are welcome and appreciated. Best regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:08 PM > To: Jie Dong > Cc: Jie Dong; Rainsword Wang(Haibo) > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-dong-pwe3-redundancy-spe-00.txt > > A new version of I-D, draft-dong-pwe3-redundancy-spe-00.txt has been > successfully submitted by Jie Dong and posted to the IETF repository. > > Filename: draft-dong-pwe3-redundancy-spe > Revision: 00 > Title: Pseudowire Redundancy on S-PE > Creation date: 2011-10-24 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 7 > > Abstract: > This document describes Multi-Segment Pseudowire (MS-PW) > protection > scenarios in which the pseudowire redundancy is provided on the > Switching-PE (S-PE). Signaling of preferential forwarding defined in > [I-D.ietf-pwe3-redundancy-bit] is reused. > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat From javi@trajano.us.es Fri Oct 28 03:19:08 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A934C21F89BA for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 03:19:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.966 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.966 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.267, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZA8NTrMgl18J for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 03:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.us.es (mail.us.es [193.147.175.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A063A21F8A71 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 03:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2352 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2011 12:19:06 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO us.es) (192.168.2.11) by us.es with SMTP; 28 Oct 2011 12:19:06 +0200 Received: (qmail 9425 invoked by uid 507); 28 Oct 2011 10:19:05 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by antivirus1 (envelope-from , uid 501) with qmail-scanner-2.08 (clamdscan: 0.97.3/13862. Clear:RC:1(127.0.0.1):. Processed in 0.047843 secs); 28 Oct 2011 10:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO antivirus1) (127.0.0.1) by us.es with SMTP; 28 Oct 2011 10:19:05 -0000 Received: from 192.168.1.13 (192.168.1.13) by antivirus1 (F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/406/antivirus1); Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:19:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Status: clean(F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/406/antivirus1) Received: (qmail 9261 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2011 12:19:05 +0200 Received: from trajano.us.es (193.147.162.130) by us.es with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 28 Oct 2011 12:19:05 +0200 Received: from [193.147.162.138] (adriano.us.es [193.147.162.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by trajano.us.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id p9SAJ4Wg013678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:19:04 +0200 Message-ID: <4EAA81A9.9000505@trajano.us.es> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:19:21 +0200 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Javi_Mu=F1oz?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-ES; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pwe3@ietf.org References: <4E96D20D.9050202@trajano.us.es> <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC9040B46BC@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> <4E9B0CD4.6000502@trajano.us.es> In-Reply-To: <4E9B0CD4.6000502@trajano.us.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Yaakov Stein Subject: Re: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 10:19:08 -0000 Hi Yaakov, If we use TDMPWs CESoPSN or TDMoIP AAL1 with SDT, I think TSSI and RDTD structures would always be guaranteed. Do you agree? Thanks. Javier Muñoz > > > > > El 16/10/2011 17:15, Yaakov Stein escribió: >> Javi >> >> When using TDMoIP in AAL2 mode, sample order is guaranteed, >> but differential delay may not be. >> >> This is because the clocks at the two sides are not locked, >> because of packetization, and because of VAD uncertainty (if VAD is >> employed). >> However, this delay variation should be on the order of a few ms, >> never 50 ms or more. >> >> Please note that I am assuming no signal processing on the samples. >> If there is signal processing, it is no longer possible to identify >> individual samples. >> >> >> Y(J)S >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of Javi Mu?oz >> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 13:57 >> To: pwe3@ietf.org >> Subject: [PWE3] TDMoIP AAL2 and TSSI/RDTD structures >> >> ITU-T I.140 defines: >> >> + RDTD structure (restricted differential time delay): if two samples, >> for any two different channels of an aggregate of channels (B1 and >> B2),are transmitted at the same time, they must separate to the >> destination no more than "50 ms". >> >> + TSSI structure (time slot sequence integrity): if a sample "bi" is >> send and, later, a second sample "bk" (for any two different channels of >> an aggregate of channels, B1 and B2), "bi" always come first. >> >> >> If we use a TDMoPW TDMoIP AAL2 to emulate the aggregate of that channels >> (B1 and B2), would TSSI and RDTD structures be guaranteed? >> _______________________________________________ >> pwe3 mailing list >> pwe3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >> > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Oct 28 19:34:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B7F11E8097; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:34:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TS7gbJSyjuDs; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F7921F84B1; Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:34:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.62 Message-ID: <20111029023415.23454.49071.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:34:15 -0700 Cc: pwe3@ietf.org Subject: [PWE3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pwe3-p2mp-pw-03.txt X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 02:34:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Wor= king Group of the IETF. Title : Signaling Root-Initiated Point-to-Multipoint Pseudowire = using LDP Author(s) : Siva Sivabalan Sami Boutros Luca Martini Maciek Konstantynowicz Gianni Del Vecchio Yuji Kamite Lizhong Jin Filename : draft-ietf-pwe3-p2mp-pw-03.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2011-10-28 This document specifies a mechanism to signal Point-to-Multipoint (P2MP) Pseudowires (PW) tree using LDP. Such a mechanism is suitable for any Layer 2 VPN service requiring P2MP connectivity over an IP or MPLS enabled PSN. A P2MP PW established via the proposed mechanism is root initiated. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-p2mp-pw-03.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-p2mp-pw-03.txt From david.sinicrope@ericsson.com Mon Oct 31 10:01:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: pwe3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95F811E814B for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HHSNCmNpCZ2b for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45CAB11E814A for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p9VH1FH7025195 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:01:17 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.174]) by eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) with mapi; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:01:12 -0400 From: David Sinicrope To: "IETF.PWE3" Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:01:09 -0400 Thread-Topic: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei Thread-Index: AcyX7rFQU2j8KL10SyadIgxjK/ld5w== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.13.0.110805 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei X-BeenThere: pwe3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Pseudo Wires Edge to Edge List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:01:18 -0000 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/agenda/pwe3.txt The link above is to the PWE3 agenda as of noon today EDT. Please let me know if you need a slot. Thanks, Dave -----Original Message----- From: David A Sinicrope Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:33:59 -0400 To: "IETF.PWE3" Cc: David A Sinicrope Subject: Re: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/agenda/pwe3.txt >The link above is to the PWE3 agenda as of noon today EDT. >Please let me know if you need a slot. >Thanks, >Dave > >-----Original Message----- >From: David A Sinicrope >Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:37:38 -0400 >To: "IETF.PWE3" >Subject: [PWE3] PWE3 Agenda Slot call for IETF 82 - Taipei > >>Hi All, >> >>Please let me know if you would like a time slot for the IETF 82 PWE3 >>session by replying to this email with: >> >>* the desired duration, >>* topic/draft title, and >>* presenter for each slot requested >> >>Thanks, >>Dave >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pwe3 mailing list >>pwe3@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >