From ranger-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 3 10:37:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ranger-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ranger-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDDE3A67FD; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ranger@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ranger@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CEC13A69D2; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.423 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.176, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24D+ycTyA4Dr; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com [130.76.64.48]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C603A6806; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.13.4]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/8.14.0/SMTPOUT) with ESMTP id n13IbETF027626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id n13IbEhd022923; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id n13Ib9OM022630; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:37:13 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:33:22 -0800 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A10586649A@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Resend: RANGER BOF - call for participation Thread-Index: AcmDBTLZUbaYGQdGQ1aj2tAZfubKMAAGdDEAAMKRmyA= From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "RRG" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2009 18:37:13.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E225090:01C9862E] Subject: [ranger] Resend: RANGER BOF - call for participation X-BeenThere: ranger@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing and Addressing in Next-Generation EnteRprises List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ranger-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ranger-bounces@ietf.org Please see below for a resend of the IETF74 RANGER BOF call for participation, including a link for subscribing to the 'ranger@ietf.org' list which is now active. Please post further discussion to 'ranger@ietf.org'. Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com -----Original Message----- From: Templin, Fred L Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 1:21 PM To: rrg@irtf.org; int-area@ietf.org Subject: [Int-area] RANGER BOF - call for participation A community of interest is being formed to gauge whether there is sufficient interest to host a BOF on "Routing and Addressing in Next-Generation EnteRprises (RANGER)" at IETF74. Please see below for proposed BOF agenda, and comment on the RRG and int-area lists while we wait for the ranger list to come up. Fred Templin fred.l.templin@boeing.com Routing and Addressing in Next-Generation EnteRprises (RANGER) BOF =================================================================== Chairs: TBD Reponsible AD: TBD (INT Area; Routing Area) Mailing List: ranger at ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ranger Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ranger Duration: 2 hours Expected Attendance: 50 Conflicts: LISP BOF, NAT66 BOF, int-area open meeting, IRTF rrg meeting Summary ======= RANGER [1] is a scalable architecture for routing and addressing in next-generation enterprise networks, where an "enterprise" [2] can be as small as a SOHO network, as dynamic as a Mobile Ad-hoc Network (MANET) [3] or as large as the global Internet itself [4]. The architecture is manifested through Virtual Enterprise Traversal (VET) [5], in which IP-in-IP encapsulation provides a virtual view of each enterprise as a Non-Broadcast, Multiple- Access (NBMA) link. RANGER is recursive, in that multiple enterprises can be joined together in a nested "enterprise-within-enterprise" fashion. In this way, the same RANGER principles that apply in lower levels of recursion can extend upwards to parent enterprises and ultimately to the core of the global Internet itself. Furthermore, it is also worth considering whether today's global Internet represents a limiting condition for recursion, or if other Internets could be manifested as "parallel universes" and joined together at still higher levels of recursion. The RANGER architecture is manifested through composite technologies including Virtual Enterprise Traversal (VET), the Subnetwork Encapsulation and Adaptation Layer (SEAL) [6], the Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing Protocol (ISATAP) [7], and many others. Noting that combinations with other technologies are also possible, the issues addressed either in full or in part by RANGER include: - IPv6/IPv4 coexistence and transition - scalable routing and addressing - provider-independent addressing and its relation to provide-aggregated addressing - site mobility and multi-homing - ingress filtering for multi-homed sites - address and prefix autoconfiguration - border router discovery - router-to-router tunneling - neighbor discovery over tunnels - MTU determination for tunnels. As seen in the above list, the RANGER architecture provides a framework for addressing a broad range of problem areas that currently limit the functionality, growth and maturation of today's Internet. Therefore, it is the purpose of this BOF to discuss the formation of an IETF WG to produce the following work items: 1) An Informational RFC describing the RANGER architecture. This document to provide a high-level overview of the RANGER enterprise-within-enterprise framework, its constituent technologies, and its domain of applicability. 2) An RFC specification of Virtual Enterprise Traversal (VET). This document to specify the inner workings of IP-in-IP encapsulation and its associated mechanisms within the RANGER context. 3) An RFC specification of the Subnetwork Encapsulation and Adaptation Layer (SEAL). This document to specify an encapsulation sublayer used to provide enhanced packet identification and tunnel MTU robustness. 4) Other work items within scope as determined, e.g., by working group/BOF consensus, etc. Agenda ====== - Administrivia (Chairs, 5 min) - Purpose of BOF (Chairs, 10 min) [see above] - Routing and Addressing in Next Generation EnteRprises (RANGER) (20 min) - Virtual Enterprise Traversal (VET) (20 min) - Subnetwork Encapsulation and Adaptation Layer (SEAL) (20 min) - Proposed Charter (Chairs, 10 min) - Questions/Next Steps (Chairs, 30 min) Documents: ========== [1] Templin, F., "Routing and Addressing in Next-Generation EnteRprises (RANGER), 'draft-templin-ranger', work-in-progress, January 2009. [2] Bound, J., et. al., "IPv6 Enterprise Network Analysis - IP Layer 3 Focus", IETF RFC 4852, April 2007. [3] Corson, S., et. al., "Mobile Ad hoc Networking (MANET): Routing Protocol Performance Issues and Evaluation Considerations", IETF RFC 2501, January 1999. [4] IRTF Routing Research Group, http://www.irtf.org/rrg [5] Templin, F., "Virtual Enterprise Traversal (VET)", 'draft-templin-autoconf-dhcp', work-in-progress, January 2009. [6] Templin, F., "Subnetwork Encapsulation and Adaptation Layer (SEAL)", 'draft-templin-seal', work-in-progress, December 2009. [7] Templin, F., et. al., "Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing Protocol (ISATAP)", IETF RFC 5214, March 2008. _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ ranger mailing list ranger@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ranger From Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com Fri Feb 6 17:49:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ranger@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ranger@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0E13A6AEB; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.426 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.426 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.173, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xJhFxlcAwj06; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com (blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com [130.76.32.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1732C3A6875; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.13.4]) by blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/8.14.0/SMTPOUT) with ESMTP id n171mfm9015900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:48:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id n171mfux027530; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.0/8.14.0/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id n171mdTN027488; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:48:40 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C988C6.3320B160" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:48:39 -0800 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1058A5BBE@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-templin-ranger-07.txt Thread-Index: AcmIxb+Rp30vSR9yS2eqjwogXJkO3AAABCqQ From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "RRG" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2009 01:48:40.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[3351C9B0:01C988C6] Subject: [ranger] FW: I-D Action:draft-templin-ranger-07.txt X-BeenThere: ranger@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing and Addressing in Next-Generation EnteRprises List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 01:49:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C988C6.3320B160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI, the RANGER specification has been updated based on review input (see below). Comments to the list or to the author welcome. Fred Templin fred.l.templin@boeing.com -----Original Message----- From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org]=20 Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 5:45 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-templin-ranger-07.txt=20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Routing and Addressing in Next-Generation EnteRprises (RANGER) Author(s) : F. Templin Filename : draft-templin-ranger-07.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2009-02-06 RANGER is an architectural framework for scalable routing and addressing in next generation enterprise networks. The term "enterprise network" within this context extends to a wide variety of use cases and deployment scenarios, where an "enterprise" can be as small as a SOHO network, as dynamic as a Mobile Ad-hoc Network, as complex as a multi-organizational corporation, or as large as the global Internet itself. Such networks will require an architected solution for the coordination of routing and addressing plans with accommodations for scalability, provider-independence, mobility, multi-homing and security. These considerations are particularly true for existing deployments, but the same principles apply even for clean-slate approaches. The RANGER architecture addresses these requirements, and provides a comprehensive framework for IPv6/IPv4 coexistence. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-templin-ranger-07.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C988C6.3320B160 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="draft-templin-ranger-07.URL" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: draft-templin-ranger-07.URL Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-templin-ranger-07.URL" W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9ZnRwOi8vZnRwLmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0 cy9kcmFmdC10ZW1wbGluLXJhbmdlci0wNy50eHQNCg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01C988C6.3320B160 Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT6591595.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: ATT6591595.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT6591595.txt" X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkktRC1Bbm5v dW5jZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkktRC1Bbm5vdW5jZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pLWQtYW5ub3VuY2UNCkludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IGRpcmVj dG9yaWVzOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3NoYWRvdy5odG1sDQpvciBmdHA6Ly9mdHAuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvaWV0Zi8xc2hhZG93LXNpdGVzLnR4dA0K ------_=_NextPart_001_01C988C6.3320B160-- From jari.arkko@piuha.net Mon Feb 9 03:33:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ranger@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ranger@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F06A3A6B68 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 03:33:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.322 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.322 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.277, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 74+r0+4wuL+U for ; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 03:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E6413A6A05 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 03:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CE719870C; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 13:33:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by smtp.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5261986E4; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 13:33:22 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <49901439.6010709@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:32:09 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ranger@ietf.org, "Templin, Fred L" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: "W. Mark Townsley" Subject: [ranger] BOF situation with Ranger X-BeenThere: ranger@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing and Addressing in Next-Generation EnteRprises List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:33:19 -0000 Fred and others, The ADs have decided to not approve the RANGER BOF at this time. This decision is mainly due to the observation that we already have quite a bit of routing and addressing related work in the IETF/IRTF: the routing research group, the proposed LISP BOF, many of the arguments for the proposed 6AI BOF relate to address independence as well, etc. When looking at all of these efforts, there was far less discussion and general interest on RANGER than the other ones. On the other hand, the proposal was submitted a bit late so I at least did not have time to read all the material and I presume others may have had the same problem. IETF work generally starts when there's a technical issue that can be solved _and_ there is wide-spread community interest in solving it in a particular way. I suspect we will see many future efforts in this space -- but for any effort to make sense, there has to be that community that is interested in discussing it. I would also like to offer the possibility of independent submissions to the RFC Editor or AD sponsored individual submission RFCs through the IETF. These might be useful for folks who want to document something which does not warrant an entire IETF WG. Also, Fred and I have been talking off-list about a possible INT-AREA presentation around SEAL. Stay tuned. Jari