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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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Subject: Re: [Rats] FYI: Confidential Computing webinar Nov 10
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Dave Thaler <dthaler=3D40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
    > Tuesday November 10, 2020 at 8:30AM PT
    > https://confidentialcomputing.io/webinar/

    > CCC meetings are also open to the public and a couple of you have att=
ended them,
    > this webinar is more an intro but potentially of interest to anyone w=
orking on TEEs.

Thank you for this, I didn't know of this effort, and I'm pleased to attend.

Please please note at:
  Time Nov 10, 2020 08:30 AM in Pacific Time (US and Canada)
     **Add to calendar**
  Webinar ID
  948 3609 4806

If you click on the "Add to calendar", you will as far as I can tell, be
giving the Zoom company complete read/write access to your calendar via OAU=
TH2.
At least for Google Calendar users.

This not seem like programming "mistake", but an intentional overreach.
Eventbright, meetup, webex, and dozens of other sign up systems get the pro=
cess right.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti=
ng )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide





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From nobody Sun Nov  1 12:24:33 2020
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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Subject: Re: [Rats] FAO Architecture sub-group, new issue added
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Simon Frost <Simon.Frost@arm.com> wrote:
`    > FAO the architecture sub-group

    > I've opened a new Issue on the doc to query the readability flow of t=
he document:
    > https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/architecture/issues/163

Thank you.
This is very useful feedback.

I'm going to split your pull request into a PR that just amends the
terminology, and what that moves the sections around.

I see that some of your edits introduces trailing periods.
I think that we had editorial reasons why they didn't belong :-)

Your second commit moving sections around also includes other edits, so that
will have to get split up so that we discuss this.

I think that the best way to explain changes to the ordering is to just post
(to the list) a proposed Table of Contents.

It is possible that we will get consensus online for some of these changes
and post a new document before the ID cutoff Monday, but as I think most of
us have other (neglected) documents we need to update, that it's unlikely.

It's very useful WGLC feedback though.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti=
ng )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide

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From: Simon Frost <Simon.Frost@arm.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>, Thomas Fossati <Thomas.Fossati@arm.com>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] FAO Architecture sub-group, new issue added
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> On Oct 31, 2020, at 1:36 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> CWT seems a little ambiguous as to whether thusly encoded OIDs are =
allowed as a label/key. Section 3 says:
>>=20
>>   To keep CWTs as small as possible, the Claim Keys are represented
>>   using integers or text strings.
>>=20
>>=20
>> This seems more of a statement of design intent rather than a =
prohibition against other types of Claim Keys, but one could interpret =
it as a prohibition.
>=20
> It is neither: It is a statement of fact.
> The dual of this statement is:
> If the label (map key) is not an integer or a text string, this label =
is not a Claim Key.
> (And, since Claims use Claim Keys, the key/value pair is not a Claim, =
and ... the whole thing is not a CWT.)

This the interpretation I was thinking of when I used the word =
prohibition. I am glad for this as it keeps the implementation I=E2=80=99m=
 working on  lot simpler.

The upshot is two things:

   1) No one can define, register, or standardize a Claim Key that is =
not an integer or text string

   2) CWT decoder/verifiers should error out if they encounter a Claim =
Key that is not an integer or text string

LL=


From nobody Tue Nov  3 10:40:45 2020
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] b52cda: Add IMEI change to changes-since section
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  Branch: refs/heads/IMEI_Encoding
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  Commit: b52cda59ce5dd00f0629906b05a92ed86239b6a9
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/b52cda59ce5dd00f0629906b05a92ed86239b6a9
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
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  Add IMEI change to changes-since section



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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] 8e3aa5: Clarify and simplify way IMEIs are encoded (#66)
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  Branch: refs/heads/master
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  Commit: 8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
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  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

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  Clarify and simplify way IMEIs are encoded (#66)

* change the way IMEI are encoded

* Add IMEI change to changes-since section

Co-authored-by: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>



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  Branch: refs/heads/submod_update
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: 8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <laurencelundblade@users.noreply.github.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Clarify and simplify way IMEIs are encoded (#66)

* change the way IMEI are encoded

* Add IMEI change to changes-since section

Co-authored-by: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>


  Commit: 893a02f06708324ced6a96a3a9d1ef8e84a8e19a
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/893a02f06708324ced6a96a3a9d1ef8e84a8e19a
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Merge branch 'master' into submod_update


Compare: https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/compare/638398051562...893a02f06708


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Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 11:40:03 -0800
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] 6c97e2: Factor out CDDL (#69)
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  Branch: refs/heads/master
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: 6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
  Author: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M .travis.yml
    M Makefile
    M README.md
    A cddl/Makefile
    A cddl/age.cddl
    A cddl/common-types.cddl
    A cddl/cwt.cddl
    A cddl/debug-disable.cddl
    A cddl/eat.cddl
    A cddl/examples/simple.diag
    A cddl/examples/submods.diag
    A cddl/json.cddl
    A cddl/location.cddl
    A cddl/nonce.cddl
    A cddl/oemid.cddl
    A cddl/origination.cddl
    A cddl/secure-boot.cddl
    A cddl/security-level.cddl
    A cddl/submods.cddl
    A cddl/tools.mk
    A cddl/ueid.cddl
    A cddl/uptime.cddl
    A cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Factor out CDDL (#69)

* factor out CDDL

* travis CI

* trying to convince travis to build



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Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 11:45:46 -0800
From: Laurence Lundblade <noreply@github.com>
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] 953b2b: correct UCCS ref
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  Branch: refs/heads/submod_update
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: 953b2bb5de2af8b06b1b620211f2d45be54f955e
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/953b2bb5de2af8b06b1b620211f2d45be54f955e
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  correct UCCS ref



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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] 6c97e2: Factor out CDDL (#69)
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  Branch: refs/heads/submod_update
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: 6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
  Author: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M .travis.yml
    M Makefile
    M README.md
    A cddl/Makefile
    A cddl/age.cddl
    A cddl/common-types.cddl
    A cddl/cwt.cddl
    A cddl/debug-disable.cddl
    A cddl/eat.cddl
    A cddl/examples/simple.diag
    A cddl/examples/submods.diag
    A cddl/json.cddl
    A cddl/location.cddl
    A cddl/nonce.cddl
    A cddl/oemid.cddl
    A cddl/origination.cddl
    A cddl/secure-boot.cddl
    A cddl/security-level.cddl
    A cddl/submods.cddl
    A cddl/tools.mk
    A cddl/ueid.cddl
    A cddl/uptime.cddl
    A cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Factor out CDDL (#69)

* factor out CDDL

* travis CI

* trying to convince travis to build


  Commit: 595321139f428199bd997c856bd4d47c05320275
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/595321139f428199bd997c856bd4d47c05320275
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-04 (Wed, 04 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M .travis.yml
    M Makefile
    M README.md
    A cddl/Makefile
    A cddl/age.cddl
    A cddl/common-types.cddl
    A cddl/cwt.cddl
    A cddl/debug-disable.cddl
    A cddl/eat.cddl
    A cddl/examples/simple.diag
    A cddl/examples/submods.diag
    A cddl/json.cddl
    A cddl/location.cddl
    A cddl/nonce.cddl
    A cddl/oemid.cddl
    A cddl/origination.cddl
    A cddl/secure-boot.cddl
    A cddl/security-level.cddl
    A cddl/submods.cddl
    A cddl/tools.mk
    A cddl/ueid.cddl
    A cddl/uptime.cddl
    A cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Improvement for JWT in CWT and vice versa; update to new CDDL build process


Compare: https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/compare/953b2bb5de2a...595321139f42


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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 12:56:26 -0800
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] b74fd1: Remove cddl verification from makefile since Circl...
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  Branch: refs/heads/submod_update
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: b74fd1f90d474ffaf636e514e20eed516a690f78
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/b74fd1f90d474ffaf636e514e20eed516a690f78
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-04 (Wed, 04 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M Makefile

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Remove cddl verification from makefile since CircleCI doesn't support it



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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] c9c9b3: Remove tools check for CDDL since CircleCI doesn't...
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  Branch: refs/heads/submod_update
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: c9c9b3ad653c99c39b8576c483aaaf1f070bf35f
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/c9c9b3ad653c99c39b8576c483aaaf1f070bf35f
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-04 (Wed, 04 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
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  Remove tools check for CDDL since CircleCI doesn't support it



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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
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This PR <https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/67> attempts to sort =
out all the tagging and nesting for submodule CWTs, JWTs (secured and =
unsecured) and UCCSs. This goes quite a ways beyond the byte string =
wrapping.

Thanks to Thomas for the build and verification set up for CDDL!

Any hints how you make reference from one RFC to another with CDDL files =
and a CDDL verification system?=20

Comments and review please.

LL



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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><a href="https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/67" class="">This PR</a>&nbsp;attempts to sort out all the tagging and nesting for submodule CWTs, JWTs (secured and unsecured) and UCCSs. This goes quite a ways beyond the byte string wrapping.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks to Thomas for the build and verification set up for CDDL!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Any hints how you make reference from one RFC to another with CDDL files and a CDDL verification system?&nbsp;</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Comments and review please.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">LL</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""></body></html>
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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 13:02:06 +0000
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Subject: [Rats] eat-claims definition
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Hi Laurence, all,

I'm giving the latest EAT version a go and I got slightly puzzled by the
fact that the CDDL seems to allow claim duplication (at least
theoretically):

~~~
eat-claims = { ; the top-level payload that is signed using COSE or JOSE
    * claim
}

claim = (
    ueid-claim //
    nonce-claim //
    origination-claim //
    oemid-claim //
    security-level-claim //
    secure-boot-claim //
    debug-disable-claim //
    location-claim //
    age-claim //
    uptime-claim //
    submods-part //
    cwt-claim //
;    generic-claim-type //
)
~~~

Now, CBOR does not allow duplicate keys in a map, and that is re-stated
in Section 4.4.1 of EAT - BTW, I guess a ref to 7049 should be enough,
rather than duplicating text?

With JSON the situation is slightly more nuanced (8259 a "names SHOULD
be unique"), but still it makes total sense to avoid duplicates if one
wants to maximise interop across different stacks.

Besides, if we aim at isomorphism between serialisation formats we need
to go for the LCD here.

So, wouldn't something like:

~~~
eat-claims = {
    ? ueid-claim,
    ? nonce-claim,
    ...
}
~~~

more precisely describe what we actually want?

cheers!
-- 
Thomas


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Subject: Re: [Rats] eat-claims definition
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I think you are right and we should change to:

eat-claims = {
   ? ueid-claim,
   ? nonce-claim,
   ...

LL

> On Nov 6, 2020, at 5:02 AM, Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Laurence, all,
> 
> I'm giving the latest EAT version a go and I got slightly puzzled by the
> fact that the CDDL seems to allow claim duplication (at least
> theoretically):
> 
> ~~~
> eat-claims = { ; the top-level payload that is signed using COSE or JOSE
>    * claim
> }
> 
> claim = (
>    ueid-claim //
>    nonce-claim //
>    origination-claim //
>    oemid-claim //
>    security-level-claim //
>    secure-boot-claim //
>    debug-disable-claim //
>    location-claim //
>    age-claim //
>    uptime-claim //
>    submods-part //
>    cwt-claim //
> ;    generic-claim-type //
> )
> ~~~
> 
> Now, CBOR does not allow duplicate keys in a map, and that is re-stated
> in Section 4.4.1 of EAT - BTW, I guess a ref to 7049 should be enough,
> rather than duplicating text?
> 
> With JSON the situation is slightly more nuanced (8259 a "names SHOULD
> be unique"), but still it makes total sense to avoid duplicates if one
> wants to maximise interop across different stacks.
> 
> Besides, if we aim at isomorphism between serialisation formats we need
> to go for the LCD here.
> 
> So, wouldn't something like:
> 
> ~~~
> eat-claims = {
>    ? ueid-claim,
>    ? nonce-claim,
>    ...
> }
> ~~~
> 
> more precisely describe what we actually want?
> 
> cheers!
> -- 
> Thomas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RATS mailing list
> RATS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats
> 


--Apple-Mail=_2FE44FAD-4591-4294-A82C-BEDF02543984
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I =
think you are right and we should change to:<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; =
padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">eat-claims =3D {</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;? ueid-claim,</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;? nonce-claim,</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...</div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><div>LL</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov =
6, 2020, at 5:02 AM, Thomas Fossati &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tho.ietf@gmail.com" class=3D"">tho.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Hi Laurence, all,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I'm giving the =
latest EAT version a go and I got slightly puzzled by the<br =
class=3D"">fact that the CDDL seems to allow claim duplication (at =
least<br class=3D"">theoretically):<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">~~~<br =
class=3D"">eat-claims =3D { ; the top-level payload that is signed using =
COSE or JOSE<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;* claim<br class=3D"">}<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">claim =3D (<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ueid-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;nonce-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;origination-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;oemid-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;security-level-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;secure-boot-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;debug-disable-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;location-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;age-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;uptime-claim //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;submods-part //<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;cwt-claim //<br class=3D"">; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;generic-claim-type //<br class=3D"">)<br =
class=3D"">~~~<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Now, CBOR does not allow =
duplicate keys in a map, and that is re-stated<br class=3D"">in Section =
4.4.1 of EAT - BTW, I guess a ref to 7049 should be enough,<br =
class=3D"">rather than duplicating text?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">With=
 JSON the situation is slightly more nuanced (8259 a "names SHOULD<br =
class=3D"">be unique"), but still it makes total sense to avoid =
duplicates if one<br class=3D"">wants to maximise interop across =
different stacks.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Besides, if we aim at =
isomorphism between serialisation formats we need<br class=3D"">to go =
for the LCD here.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">So, wouldn't something =
like:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">~~~<br class=3D"">eat-claims =3D {<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;? ueid-claim,<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;? nonce-claim,<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...<br =
class=3D"">}<br class=3D"">~~~<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">more =
precisely describe what we actually want?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">cheers!<br class=3D"">-- <br class=3D"">Thomas<br =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">RATS mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:RATS@ietf.org" class=3D"">RATS@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_2FE44FAD-4591-4294-A82C-BEDF02543984--


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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 11:28:15 -0800
From: Laurence Lundblade <noreply@github.com>
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] ce8393: Correct definition of claim value
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  Branch: refs/heads/timestamp
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: ce8393575f5038919f3128f61efecc56c27d4a80
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/ce8393575f5038919f3128f61efecc56c27d4a80
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <laurencelundblade@users.noreply.github.com>
  Date:   2020-09-18 (Fri, 18 Sep 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Correct definition of claim value


  Commit: 8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <laurencelundblade@users.noreply.github.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Clarify and simplify way IMEIs are encoded (#66)

* change the way IMEI are encoded

* Add IMEI change to changes-since section

Co-authored-by: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>


  Commit: 6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
  Author: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M .travis.yml
    M Makefile
    M README.md
    A cddl/Makefile
    A cddl/age.cddl
    A cddl/common-types.cddl
    A cddl/cwt.cddl
    A cddl/debug-disable.cddl
    A cddl/eat.cddl
    A cddl/examples/simple.diag
    A cddl/examples/submods.diag
    A cddl/json.cddl
    A cddl/location.cddl
    A cddl/nonce.cddl
    A cddl/oemid.cddl
    A cddl/origination.cddl
    A cddl/secure-boot.cddl
    A cddl/security-level.cddl
    A cddl/submods.cddl
    A cddl/tools.mk
    A cddl/ueid.cddl
    A cddl/uptime.cddl
    A cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Factor out CDDL (#69)

* factor out CDDL

* travis CI

* trying to convince travis to build


  Commit: 36434cfaab87757789b718b2e895a34f8d811402
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/36434cfaab87757789b718b2e895a34f8d811402
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-06 (Fri, 06 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M .travis.yml
    M Makefile
    M README.md
    A cddl/Makefile
    A cddl/common-types.cddl
    A cddl/cwt.cddl
    A cddl/debug-disable.cddl
    A cddl/eat.cddl
    A cddl/examples/simple.diag
    A cddl/examples/submods.diag
    A cddl/json.cddl
    A cddl/location.cddl
    A cddl/nonce.cddl
    A cddl/oemid.cddl
    A cddl/origination.cddl
    A cddl/secure-boot.cddl
    A cddl/security-level.cddl
    A cddl/submods.cddl
    A cddl/tools.mk
    A cddl/ueid.cddl
    A cddl/uptime.cddl
    A cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  conflict resolution with master


Compare: https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/compare/f740a3aab835...36434cfaab87


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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] 9d55bd: disable cddl verification for CircleCI
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  Branch: refs/heads/timestamp
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: 9d55bd77ac2930bedeb974dcaf5a4d1e3ce7a9df
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/9d55bd77ac2930bedeb974dcaf5a4d1e3ce7a9df
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-06 (Fri, 06 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
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  Log Message:
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  disable cddl verification for CircleCI



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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
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  Commit: b6912982ebaabd24c92e16829bb65222fa85b5e2
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/b6912982ebaabd24c92e16829bb65222fa85b5e2
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  Date:   2020-11-06 (Fri, 06 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
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  Script updating gh-pages from 9d55bd7. [ci skip]



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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: 35bfad80200267989a76628a7c002cc841ad2688
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/35bfad80200267989a76628a7c002cc841ad2688
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] 4a3e78: clarify iat claim; remove age claim; add timestamp...
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  Branch: refs/heads/master
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: 4a3e78b6f37f192a55c1fa7e210b95bc6ffdc36d
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/4a3e78b6f37f192a55c1fa7e210b95bc6ffdc36d
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <laurencelundblade@users.noreply.github.com>
  Date:   2020-11-06 (Fri, 06 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M Makefile
    R cddl/age.cddl
    M cddl/common-types.cddl
    M cddl/eat.cddl
    M cddl/json.cddl
    M cddl/location.cddl
    M cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
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  clarify iat claim; remove age claim; add timestamp to location (#59)

This is to address the timing diagram from Eric Voit and others.

Timestamping of measurements is very important, but no measurement is defined in EAT (yet).

* clarify iat claim; remove age claim; add timestamp to location

* disable cddl verification for CircleCI

Co-authored-by: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>



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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
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  Script updating gh-pages from 4a3e78b. [ci skip]



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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 11:46:29 -0800
From: Laurence Lundblade <noreply@github.com>
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] ce8393: Correct definition of claim value
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  Branch: refs/heads/no-float
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: ce8393575f5038919f3128f61efecc56c27d4a80
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/ce8393575f5038919f3128f61efecc56c27d4a80
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <laurencelundblade@users.noreply.github.com>
  Date:   2020-09-18 (Fri, 18 Sep 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Correct definition of claim value


  Commit: 8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/8e3aa5671999d555afc142368445386b20af2f87
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <laurencelundblade@users.noreply.github.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Clarify and simplify way IMEIs are encoded (#66)

* change the way IMEI are encoded

* Add IMEI change to changes-since section

Co-authored-by: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>


  Commit: 6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/6c97e22dbce3e2e5f4e8d573f42167e3aa3401ad
  Author: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
  Date:   2020-11-03 (Tue, 03 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M .travis.yml
    M Makefile
    M README.md
    A cddl/Makefile
    A cddl/age.cddl
    A cddl/common-types.cddl
    A cddl/cwt.cddl
    A cddl/debug-disable.cddl
    A cddl/eat.cddl
    A cddl/examples/simple.diag
    A cddl/examples/submods.diag
    A cddl/json.cddl
    A cddl/location.cddl
    A cddl/nonce.cddl
    A cddl/oemid.cddl
    A cddl/origination.cddl
    A cddl/secure-boot.cddl
    A cddl/security-level.cddl
    A cddl/submods.cddl
    A cddl/tools.mk
    A cddl/ueid.cddl
    A cddl/uptime.cddl
    A cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Factor out CDDL (#69)

* factor out CDDL

* travis CI

* trying to convince travis to build


  Commit: 4a3e78b6f37f192a55c1fa7e210b95bc6ffdc36d
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/4a3e78b6f37f192a55c1fa7e210b95bc6ffdc36d
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <laurencelundblade@users.noreply.github.com>
  Date:   2020-11-06 (Fri, 06 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M Makefile
    R cddl/age.cddl
    M cddl/common-types.cddl
    M cddl/eat.cddl
    M cddl/json.cddl
    M cddl/location.cddl
    M cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  clarify iat claim; remove age claim; add timestamp to location (#59)

This is to address the timing diagram from Eric Voit and others.

Timestamping of measurements is very important, but no measurement is defined in EAT (yet).

* clarify iat claim; remove age claim; add timestamp to location

* disable cddl verification for CircleCI

Co-authored-by: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>


  Commit: 1aa68defb7005ab721fa9770a8f3ed799d1664e5
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/1aa68defb7005ab721fa9770a8f3ed799d1664e5
  Author: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>
  Date:   2020-11-06 (Fri, 06 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
    M .travis.yml
    M Makefile
    M README.md
    A cddl/Makefile
    A cddl/common-types.cddl
    A cddl/cwt.cddl
    A cddl/debug-disable.cddl
    A cddl/eat.cddl
    A cddl/examples/simple.diag
    A cddl/examples/submods.diag
    A cddl/json.cddl
    A cddl/location.cddl
    A cddl/nonce.cddl
    A cddl/oemid.cddl
    A cddl/origination.cddl
    A cddl/secure-boot.cddl
    A cddl/security-level.cddl
    A cddl/submods.cddl
    A cddl/tools.mk
    A cddl/ueid.cddl
    A cddl/uptime.cddl
    A cddl/vars.mk
    M draft-ietf-rats-eat.md

  Log Message:
  -----------
  Merge branch 'master' into no-float


Compare: https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/compare/b4e93a6884d7...1aa68defb700


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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: cbf89c1c1d25074a78e527a0246965df4e939a77
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/cbf89c1c1d25074a78e527a0246965df4e939a77
  Author: ID Bot <idbot@example.com>
  Date:   2020-11-06 (Fri, 06 Nov 2020)

  Changed paths:
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  Script updating gh-pages from 1aa68de. [ci skip]



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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 12:07:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Rats] eat-claims definition
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On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com> wrote:
> I think you are right and we should change to:
>
> eat-claims = {
>    ? ueid-claim,
>    ? nonce-claim,
>    ...

Cool, https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/70

cheers!


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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 07:33:59 -0500
Message-ID: <CAN40gSvRtzPoOnD-EiLhQGJq91TxRzCfrQq2aDT4vYEg9xPwjA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Cc: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>, rats@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Rats] eat-claims definition
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+1

Good catch Thomas.

Cheers,
- Ira

*Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)*

*Chair - SAE Trust Anchors and Authentication TF*
*Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG*

*Co-Chair - TCG Metadata Access Protocol SG*








*Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WGSecretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer
Working GroupCo-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WGIETF
Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIBBlue Roof Music / High North
Inchttp://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
<http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
<http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc>mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
<blueroofmusic@gmail.com>(permanent) PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839
906-494-2434*


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 7:08 AM Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
> wrote:
> > I think you are right and we should change to:
> >
> > eat-claims = {
> >    ? ueid-claim,
> >    ? nonce-claim,
> >    ...
>
> Cool, https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/70
>
> cheers!
>
> _______________________________________________
> RATS mailing list
> RATS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>+1</div><div><br></div><div>Good catch Thomas.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>- Ira</div><div><br></div><div><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font size=3D"1">Ira McDonald (Mu=
sician / Software Architect)</font></i></div><div><i><font size=3D"1">Chair=
 - SAE Trust Anchors and Authentication TF<br></font></i></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><i><font size=3D"1">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG</font=
></i></div><div><i><font size=3D"1">Co-Chair - TCG Metadata Access Protocol=
 SG<br></font></i></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font size=3D"1">Chair - Linux =
Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<=
br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designate=
d Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a =
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroo=
fmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/hig=
hnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><=
br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blu=
eroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>(permanent) PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 4=
9839=C2=A0 906-494-2434</font></i></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><b=
r></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 7:08 AM Thomas Fossati &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tho.i=
etf@gmail.com">tho.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM Laurence Lu=
ndblade &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lgl@island-resort.com" target=3D"_blank">lgl@=
island-resort.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I think you are right and we should change to:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; eat-claims =3D {<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ? ueid-claim,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ? nonce-claim,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...<br>
<br>
Cool, <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/70" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/70</a><br>
<br>
cheers!<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RATS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:RATS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">RATS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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Subject: Re: [Rats] comments on draft-birkholz-rats-uccs
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Hi all,

Apologies for a very late response to some of the issues raised below.

Best regards

Jeremy

Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com> Mon, 17 August 2020 20:14 UTC

-----Original Message-----

From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de<mailto:henk.birkholz@s=
it.fraunhofer.de>>

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 3:49 AM

To: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay <jmfmckay@gmail.com<mailto:jmfmckay@gmail.com>=
>; rats@ietf.org<mailto:rats@ietf.org>

Cc: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay <jmfitz2@cyber.nsa.gov<mailto:jmfitz2@cyber.ns=
a.gov>>; Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com<mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com>>=
; draft-birkholz-rats-uccs@ietf.org<mailto:draft-birkholz-rats-uccs@ietf.or=
g>

Subject: Re: [Rats] comments on draft-birkholz-rats-uccs



Thanks Jess!



the discussion on where this is incubated was deliberately scoped down to p=
rovide:



* a finite and still useful set of Security/Privacy considerations, and

* relatively specific guidance and context on how prerequisites for usage l=
ook like.



The concept of an UCCS tag goes beyond RATS, of course. The usage of an UCC=
S tag alas requires some application-specific "rules".



That said, we will discuss this topic specifically asap. Also, Jim is now i=
n CC (Hi Jim) and maybe he can weigh in on this topic?



With respect to your technical comments, please give us some time to come b=
ack with well-formed answers. I do not want to barge ahead with half-baked =
replies :-)



Viele Gr=FC=DFe,



Henk



On 07.08.20 16:01, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote:

> Hi, UCCS authors,

>

> Mike Jenkins and I reviewed the UCCS draft. Our comments are below.

> Happy to talk through any of them with the group.

>

> Thanks,

> Jess

>

> The intent of this draft is similar to the key concept of EST - use

> the authentication of the secure session connection. Most schemes

> build on this concept leave a lot of banana peels laying around, some

> of which we describe here. In general, this does not seem appropriate

> to the scope of RATS. We feel that COSE might be a more appropriate

> work group to think these issues through.





[JLS] To me COSE is exactly the wrong place to do this.  If it is not done =
in RATS then ACE would be the appropriate location.  Doing it in COSE would=
 be something along the lines of "If you don't use the core technology of t=
his group then you should?"



>

> - If you're using a static symmetric key for authentication (as one

> might with highly-constrained devices), you can only authenticate a

> net, not an entity. The receiver cannot differentiate between

> authenticating the sender and authenticating itself.



[JLS] I don't see this as being interesting for this document  The exact sa=
me set of problems exist if you use HMAC or symmetric encryption with COSE =
where a static symmetric key is used.  The thing that might be interesting =
would be to talk about correspondences of the secure channel security and t=
he equivalent COSE objects.



[JOD] I prefer to focus on the security UCCS over a Secure Channel in compa=
rison

To COSE as Jim suggested =96 this seems reasonable approach. Since

ID.ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-struct and ID.ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-algs have

extensive security considerations. I have proposed text modelled on the

structure used in I-D.ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-struct and

I-D.ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-algs.



>

> - The authentication happens at the secure channel termination, not in

> the channel-contents-using application. It's important how the

> termination process vouches the authentication to the application. (In

> EST, this question is how the EST server vouches the requestor's

> identity to the CA server.)

>

> - A TEE only helps if the TEE application can punch through the REE

> and set up the secure channel completely on its own. If the TEE relies

> on the REE to set up the secure channel, you might as well just

> operate in the REE.



[JOD] Given the many ways in which Secure Channels for UCCS can be implemen=
ted, I suggest

including text that indicates the need for the Secure Channel and Attester =
to exist within

a common security environment.



Text could read along the lines of:



=93A Secure Channel established or maintained using weak cryptography, or t=
hat exists in a

different security context to the Attester, may not provide the assurance r=
equired by a

relying party of the authenticity and integrity of the UCCS.=94



>

> - There is a comment at the end of the introduction (!) about

> transitioning back and forth between self-protected and

> channel-protected CWT, "in a well-defined scope". Define the security

> characteristics of that scope or get rid of the comment. You're

> handing someone an awful lot of rope there.



[JOD] This text has been deleted.



> - The claims set should be treated as ephemeral by the recipient. It

> shouldn't be stored, and can't be forwarded except as data originated

> by the recipient. As soon as it emerges from the secure channel, it's

> no more valid or meaningful than any other piece of unprotected data

> in the application environment.



[JOD] Proposed text:



=93When UCCS emerge from the Secure Channel and into the Verifier, the secu=
rity

properties of the Secure Channel no longer apply and UCCS have the same pro=
perties

as any other unprotected data in the Verifier environment.



If the Verifier subsequently forwards UCCS, they are treated as though they

originated within the Verifier.=94



> _______________________________________________

> RATS mailing list

> RATS@ietf.org<mailto:RATS@ietf.org>

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats

>


--
Jeremy O=92Donoghue
Director, Secure Systems Group, Farnborough, UK
jodonogh@qti.qualcomm.com

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<body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:=
break-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"msg-header" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;ma=
rgin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span class=3D"pipe"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif">Hi all,</span></span><span class=3D"pipe"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"msg-header" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;ma=
rgin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span class=3D"pipe"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif">Apologies for a very late response to some of the is=
sues raised below.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"msg-header" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;ma=
rgin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span class=3D"pipe"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"msg-header" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;ma=
rgin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span class=3D"pipe"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif">Jeremy<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"msg-header" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;ma=
rgin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span class=3D"pipe"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,sans-serif">Jim Schaad &lt;ietf@augustcellars.com&gt;</span></sp=
an><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=
=3D"pipe"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,=
sans-serif">Mon,
 17 August 2020 20:14 UTC</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif">
</span><span style=3D"color:gray"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">-----O=
riginal Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">From: =
Henk Birkholz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de"><span =
style=3D"color:#337AB7">henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de</span></a>&gt; <o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">Sent: =
Monday, August 17, 2020 3:49 AM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">To: Je=
ssica Fitzgerald-McKay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmfmckay@gmail.com"><span styl=
e=3D"color:#337AB7">jmfmckay@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:ra=
ts@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">rats@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">Cc: Je=
ssica Fitzgerald-McKay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmfitz2@cyber.nsa.gov"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#337AB7">jmfitz2@cyber.nsa.gov</span></a>&gt;; Jim Schaad &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">ie=
tf@augustcellars.com</span></a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-birkholz-rats-=
uccs@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">draft-birkholz-rats-uccs@ietf.=
org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">Subjec=
t: Re: [Rats] comments on draft-birkholz-rats-uccs<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">Thanks=
 Jess!<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">the di=
scussion on where this is incubated was deliberately scoped down to provide=
:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">* a fi=
nite and still useful set of Security/Privacy considerations, and<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">* rela=
tively specific guidance and context on how prerequisites for usage look li=
ke.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">The co=
ncept of an UCCS tag goes beyond RATS, of course. The usage of an UCCS tag =
alas requires some application-specific &quot;rules&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span=
></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">That s=
aid, we will discuss this topic specifically asap. Also, Jim is now in CC (=
Hi Jim) and maybe he can weigh in on this topic?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">With r=
espect to your technical comments, please give us some time to come back wi=
th well-formed answers. I do not want to barge ahead with half-baked replie=
s :-)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">Viele =
Gr=FC=DFe,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">Henk<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">On 07.=
08.20 16:01, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; H=
i, UCCS authors,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; M=
ike Jenkins and I reviewed the UCCS draft. Our comments are below. <o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; H=
appy to talk through any of them with the group.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; J=
ess<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; T=
he intent of this draft is similar to the key concept of EST - use <o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; t=
he authentication of the secure session connection. Most schemes <o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; b=
uild on this concept leave a lot of banana peels laying around, some <o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; o=
f which we describe here. In general, this does not seem appropriate <o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; t=
o the scope of RATS. We feel that COSE might be a more appropriate <o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; w=
ork group to think these issues through.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">[JLS] =
To me COSE is exactly the wrong place to do this.&nbsp; If it is not done i=
n RATS then ACE would be the appropriate location.&nbsp; Doing it in COSE w=
ould be something along the lines of &quot;If you don't use the core techno=
logy of this group then you should?&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; -=
 If you're using a static symmetric key for authentication (as one <o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; m=
ight with highly-constrained devices), you can only authenticate a <o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; n=
et, not an entity. The receiver cannot differentiate between <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; a=
uthenticating the sender and authenticating itself.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">[JLS] =
I don't see this as being interesting for this document&nbsp; The exact sam=
e set of problems exist if you use HMAC or symmetric encryption with COSE w=
here a static symmetric key is used.&nbsp; The thing that might be interest=
ing would be to talk about correspondences of the secure channel security a=
nd the equivalent COSE objects.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">[JOD] =
I prefer to focus on the security UCCS over a Secure Channel in comparison<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">To COS=
E as Jim suggested =96 this seems reasonable approach. Since <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">ID.iet=
f-cose-rfc8152bis-struct and ID.ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-algs have<o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">extens=
ive security considerations. I have proposed text modelled on the<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">struct=
ure used in I-D.ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-struct and <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">I-D.ie=
tf-cose-rfc8152bis-algs.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; -=
 The authentication happens at the secure channel termination, not in <o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; t=
he channel-contents-using application. It's important how the <o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; t=
ermination process vouches the authentication to the application. (In <o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; E=
ST, this question is how the EST server vouches the requestor's <o:p></o:p>=
</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; i=
dentity to the CA server.)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; -=
 A TEE only helps if the TEE application can punch through the REE <o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; a=
nd set up the secure channel completely on its own. If the TEE relies <o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; o=
n the REE to set up the secure channel, you might as well just <o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; o=
perate in the REE.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">[JOD] =
Given the many ways in which Secure Channels for UCCS can be implemented, I=
 suggest<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">includ=
ing text that indicates the need for the Secure Channel and Attester to exi=
st within<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">a comm=
on security environment.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">Text c=
ould read along the lines of:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">=93A S=
ecure Channel established or maintained using weak cryptography, or that ex=
ists in a<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">differ=
ent security context to the Attester, may not provide the assurance require=
d by a<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">relyin=
g party of the authenticity and integrity of the UCCS.=94<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; -=
 There is a comment at the end of the introduction (!) about <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; t=
ransitioning back and forth between self-protected and <o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; c=
hannel-protected CWT, &quot;in a well-defined scope&quot;. Define the secur=
ity <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; c=
haracteristics of that scope or get rid of the comment. You're <o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; h=
anding someone an awful lot of rope there.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">[JOD] =
This text has been deleted.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; -=
 The claims set should be treated as ephemeral by the recipient. It <o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; s=
houldn't be stored, and can't be forwarded except as data originated <o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; b=
y the recipient. As soon as it emerges from the secure channel, it's <o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; n=
o more valid or meaningful than any other piece of unprotected data <o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; i=
n the application environment.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">[JOD] =
Proposed text:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">=93Whe=
n UCCS emerge from the Secure Channel and into the Verifier, the security<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">proper=
ties of the Secure Channel no longer apply and UCCS have the same propertie=
s<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">as any=
 other unprotected data in the Verifier environment.<o:p></o:p></span></pre=
>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">If the=
 Verifier subsequently forwards UCCS, they are treated as though they <o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">origin=
ated within the Verifier.=94<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; _=
______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; R=
ATS mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
a href=3D"mailto:RATS@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">RATS@ietf.org=
</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats"><span style=3D"color:=
#337AB7">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats</span></a><o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Menlo;color:#212529">&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language=
:EN-GB">--&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#002060">Jeremy O=92Donoghue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#002060">Director, Secure Systems Group, Farnborough,=
 UK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#002060">jodonogh@qti.qualcomm.com</span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CY4PR0201MB35886059C406E707EC9F11AEF2EA0CY4PR0201MB3588_--


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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] 0c3756: Lots of wordsmithing to Claims Characteristics
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  Branch: refs/heads/claim-characteristics
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  Branch: refs/heads/gh-pages
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Subject: [Rats] [ietf-rats-wg/eat] f28c8a: Added Claims Characteristics section (#7)
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  Branch: refs/heads/master
  Home:   https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat
  Commit: f28c8a69c2da08f8db09a5136ca63c5255ce450f
      https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/commit/f28c8a69c2da08f8db09a5136ca63c5255ce450f
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  Date:   2020-11-09 (Mon, 09 Nov 2020)

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  Added Claims Characteristics section (#7)

* Added Claims Characteristics section

* Add discussion of data format reuse

* move claims characteristics to IANA considerations; indicate this updates RFC8932

* IANA section changed to be for CWT (and EAT)

* Claims characteristics are now just guidance for designing EAT claims

* no longer an update to RFC 8329

* Lots of wordsmithing to Claims Characteristics

Co-authored-by: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@securitytheory.com>



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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF 109 Agenda
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/plDJrkpDFRBxmd95_U8WGqFYokc>
Subject: Re: [Rats] Mail regarding draft-ietf-rats-tpm-based-network-device-attest
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Greetings fellow members of the IETF Rats Working Group.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rats-tpm-based-network-device-attest-05

My comments have all been addressed in -05.

I support the document moving forward.

-- 
Mark D. Baushke
mdb@juniper.net
Distinguished Engineer
Juniper Networks, Inc.
www.juniper.net


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From: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/xm8UYSDQob14xpZwd82ZcUojYmU>
Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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I'll volunteer to be one of the notes takers. But it works best if there ar=
e three. That way, if you are also a presenter there will always be at leas=
t two notes takers.=0A=
=0A=
Please reply to the chairs or the RATS list to volunteer. =0A=
=0A=
Thanks,=0A=
Ned=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Ned Smith - Intel - ned.smith@intel.com=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)=
 <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>=0A=
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:20 PM=0A=
To: rats@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda=0A=
=0A=
Hello RATs WG,=0A=
=0A=
We have two time slots (ICT or UTC+7)scheduled for IETF 109:=0A=
   Tuesday Nov 17 16:00-18:00=0A=
   Thursday Nov 19 16:00-18:00=0A=
=0A=
However, as I have only received a few requests, we may not need the Thursd=
ay slot.  Here=92s the current agenda:=0A=
=0A=
RATS agenda for Tuesday November 17, 2020=0A=
=0A=
* Agenda bash (5min)=0A=
=0A=
* Architecture Update-  Michael Richardson (5 min)=0A=
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architectu=
re/=0A=
=0A=
* CHARRA Update =96 Eric Voit (10min)=0A=
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-c=
harra/=0A=
=0A=
* Interaction Model Update=96 Henk Birkholz (10min)=0A=
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-rats-refere=
nce-interaction-model/=0A=
=0A=
* EAT Update - Laurence Lundblade (40min)=0A=
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-eat/=0A=
=0A=
* FIDO and EAT dependencies  =96 Giri Mandyam (10min)=0A=
=0A=
* AOB=0A=
=0A=
Jabber: xmpp:rats@jabber.ietf.org?join=0A=
MeetEcho: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats=0A=
Notes in: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats=0A=
=0A=
For any other requests, please send to rats-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:rats-cha=
irs@ietf.org>=0A=
=0A=
Thanks,=0A=
   Nancy=0A=


From nobody Tue Nov 10 12:07:27 2020
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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:07:10 +0000
Message-ID: <CAObGJnNQZJZ43zHvpoJzb8_ffXFpSqLW6s17eh9uR_jK0Zjn6Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
Cc: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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Hi Ned,

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 7:37 PM Smith, Ned <ned.smith@intel.com> wrote:
>
> I'll volunteer to be one of the notes takers. But it works best if there =
are three. That way, if you are also a presenter there will always be at le=
ast two notes takers.
>
> Please reply to the chairs or the RATS list to volunteer.

I could be the other note taker in one of the sessions.

cheers

>
> Thanks,
> Ned
>
>
> Ned Smith - Intel - ned.smith@intel.com
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwin=
g) <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:20 PM
> To: rats@ietf.org
> Subject: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda
>
> Hello RATs WG,
>
> We have two time slots (ICT or UTC+7)scheduled for IETF 109:
>    Tuesday Nov 17 16:00-18:00
>    Thursday Nov 19 16:00-18:00
>
> However, as I have only received a few requests, we may not need the Thur=
sday slot.  Here=E2=80=99s the current agenda:
>
> RATS agenda for Tuesday November 17, 2020
>
> * Agenda bash (5min)
>
> * Architecture Update-  Michael Richardson (5 min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architec=
ture/
>
> * CHARRA Update =E2=80=93 Eric Voit (10min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm=
-charra/
>
> * Interaction Model Update=E2=80=93 Henk Birkholz (10min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-rats-refe=
rence-interaction-model/
>
> * EAT Update - Laurence Lundblade (40min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-eat/
>
> * FIDO and EAT dependencies  =E2=80=93 Giri Mandyam (10min)
>
> * AOB
>
> Jabber: xmpp:rats@jabber.ietf.org?join
> MeetEcho: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats
> Notes in: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats
>
> For any other requests, please send to rats-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:rats-c=
hairs@ietf.org>
>
> Thanks,
>    Nancy
>
> _______________________________________________
> RATS mailing list
> RATS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats



--=20
Thomas


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Subject: [Rats] Including public keys and such in EAT
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I=E2=80=99m hoping for a lot of discussion and input on this PR =
<https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/71> about the inclusion of =
keys in claims.

Seems to me there are lots of use cases for key inclusion and they have =
semantics that vary too much to fit into  one claim. I=E2=80=99ve chosen =
primarily to write guidelines rather than define claims.

One use case is a CSR. However, RFC 8747 doesn=E2=80=99t define a CSR, =
so referencing it isn=E2=80=99t sufficient.

Attestations from the Android key store include things like security =
level and user authentication requirements for use. Going into all that =
is too much for EAT, but might be good in another document.

FIDO goes one step beyond Android and binds a relying party/user/device =
tuple with the key.

It is a little tempting to define a security level for the storage and =
operation of keys since EAT has a security level definition.

LL



--Apple-Mail=_854430EA-34E8-4FDA-9349-75F034590D1F
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I=E2=80=
=99m hoping for a lot of discussion and input on&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/71" class=3D"">this =
PR</a>&nbsp;about the inclusion of keys in claims.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Seems to me there are =
lots of use cases for key inclusion and they have semantics that vary =
too much to fit into &nbsp;one claim. I=E2=80=99ve chosen primarily to =
write guidelines rather than define claims.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">One use case is a CSR. However, RFC =
8747 doesn=E2=80=99t define a CSR, so referencing it isn=E2=80=99t =
sufficient.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Attestations from the Android key store include things like =
security level and user authentication requirements for use. Going into =
all that is too much for EAT, but might be good in another =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">FIDO =
goes one step beyond Android and binds a relying party/user/device tuple =
with the key.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It=
 is a little tempting to define a security level for the storage and =
operation of keys since EAT has a security level =
definition.</div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">LL</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
To: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>, "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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Thanks Thomas!

From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 1:07 PM
To: Smith, Ned <ned.smith@intel.com>
Cc: rats@ietf.org <rats@ietf.org>, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing=3D=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
Hi Ned,

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 7:37 PM Smith, Ned <ned.smith@intel.com> wrote:
>
> I'll volunteer to be one of the notes takers. But it works best if there =
are three. That way, if you are also a presenter there will always be at le=
ast two notes takers.
>
> Please reply to the chairs or the RATS list to volunteer.

I could be the other note taker in one of the sessions.

cheers

>
> Thanks,
> Ned
>
>
> Ned Smith - Intel - ned.smith@intel.com
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwin=
g) <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:20 PM
> To: rats@ietf.org
> Subject: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda
>
> Hello RATs WG,
>
> We have two time slots (ICT or UTC+7)scheduled for IETF 109:
>    Tuesday Nov 17 16:00-18:00
>    Thursday Nov 19 16:00-18:00
>
> However, as I have only received a few requests, we may not need the Thur=
sday slot.  Here=92s the current agenda:
>
> RATS agenda for Tuesday November 17, 2020
>
> * Agenda bash (5min)
>
> * Architecture Update-  Michael Richardson (5 min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architec=
ture/
>
> * CHARRA Update =96 Eric Voit (10min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm=
-charra/
>
> * Interaction Model Update=96 Henk Birkholz (10min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-rats-refe=
rence-interaction-model/
>
> * EAT Update - Laurence Lundblade (40min)
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-eat/
>
> * FIDO and EAT dependencies  =96 Giri Mandyam (10min)
>
> * AOB
>
> Jabber: xmpp:rats@jabber.ietf.org?join
> MeetEcho: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats
> Notes in: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats
>
> For any other requests, please send to rats-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:rats-c=
hairs@ietf.org>
>
> Thanks,
>    Nancy
>
> _______________________________________________
> RATS mailing list
> RATS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats



--
Thomas

_______________________________________________
RATS mailing list
RATS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Thanks Thomas!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">RATS &lt;rats-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 1:07 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Smith, Ned &lt;ned.smith@intel.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>rats@ietf.org &lt;rats@ietf.org&gt;, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)=
 &lt;ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hi Ned,<br>
<br>
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 7:37 PM Smith, Ned &lt;ned.smith@intel.com&gt; wrot=
e:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'll volunteer to be one of the notes takers. But it works best if the=
re are three. That way, if you are also a presenter there will always be at=
 least two notes takers.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please reply to the chairs or the RATS list to volunteer.<br>
<br>
I could be the other note taker in one of the sessions.<br>
<br>
cheers<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Ned<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ned Smith - Intel - ned.smith@intel.com<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: RATS &lt;rats-bounces@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Nancy Cam-Winget=
 (ncamwing) &lt;ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:20 PM<br>
&gt; To: rats@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Subject: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hello RATs WG,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We have two time slots (ICT or UTC+7)scheduled for IETF 109:<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday Nov 17 16:00-18:00<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday Nov 19 16:00-18:00<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; However, as I have only received a few requests, we may not need the T=
hursday slot.&nbsp; Here=92s the current agenda:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; RATS agenda for Tuesday November 17, 2020<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * Agenda bash (5min)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * Architecture Update-&nbsp; Michael Richardson (5 min)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-ietf-rats-architecture/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architecture/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * CHARRA Update =96 Eric Voit (10min)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-charra/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-charra/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * Interaction Model Update=96 Henk Birkholz (10min)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-birkholz-rats-reference-interaction-model/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-rats-reference-interaction-=
model/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * EAT Update - Laurence Lundblade (40min)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-ietf-rats-eat/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-eat/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * FIDO and EAT dependencies&nbsp; =96 Giri Mandyam (10min)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; * AOB<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Jabber: xmpp:rats@jabber.ietf.org?join<br>
&gt; MeetEcho: <a href=3D"https://www.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats">https://ww=
w.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats</a><br>
&gt; Notes in: <a href=3D"https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats">http=
s://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; For any other requests, please send to rats-chairs@ietf.org&lt;mailto:=
rats-chairs@ietf.org&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Nancy<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; RATS mailing list<br>
&gt; RATS@ietf.org<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/rats</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Thomas<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RATS mailing list<br>
RATS@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/rats</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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From: "Panwei (William)" <william.panwei@huawei.com>
To: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
CC: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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Hi Ned,

I volunteer to be the notes taker.

Regards & Thanks!
Wei Pan

-----Original Message-----
From: RATS [mailto:rats-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Smith, Ned
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 3:38 AM
To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; ra=
ts@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers

I'll volunteer to be one of the notes takers. But it works best if there ar=
e three. That way, if you are also a presenter there will always be at leas=
t two notes takers.

Please reply to the chairs or the RATS list to volunteer.=20

Thanks,
Ned


Ned Smith - Intel - ned.smith@intel.com


________________________________________
From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)=
 <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:20 PM
To: rats@ietf.org
Subject: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda

Hello RATs WG,

We have two time slots (ICT or UTC+7)scheduled for IETF 109:
   Tuesday Nov 17 16:00-18:00
   Thursday Nov 19 16:00-18:00

However, as I have only received a few requests, we may not need the Thursd=
ay slot.  Here's the current agenda:

RATS agenda for Tuesday November 17, 2020

* Agenda bash (5min)

* Architecture Update-  Michael Richardson (5 min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architectu=
re/

* CHARRA Update - Eric Voit (10min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-c=
harra/

* Interaction Model Update- Henk Birkholz (10min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-rats-refere=
nce-interaction-model/

* EAT Update - Laurence Lundblade (40min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-eat/

* FIDO and EAT dependencies  - Giri Mandyam (10min)

* AOB

Jabber: xmpp:rats@jabber.ietf.org?join
MeetEcho: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats
Notes in: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats

For any other requests, please send to rats-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:rats-cha=
irs@ietf.org>

Thanks,
   Nancy

_______________________________________________
RATS mailing list
RATS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats


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From: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
To: "Panwei (William)" <william.panwei@huawei.com>
CC: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 01:37:36 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/2twJjEe8TN49TkJV1kvLXSpT2b8>
Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
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Thanks Panwei!

From: Panwei (William) <william.panwei@huawei.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 6:35 PM
To: Smith, Ned <ned.smith@intel.com>
Cc: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, ra=
ts@ietf.org <rats@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers
Hi Ned,

I volunteer to be the notes taker.

Regards & Thanks!
Wei Pan

-----Original Message-----
From: RATS [mailto:rats-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Smith, Ned
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 3:38 AM
To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; ra=
ts@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers

I'll volunteer to be one of the notes takers. But it works best if there ar=
e three. That way, if you are also a presenter there will always be at leas=
t two notes takers.

Please reply to the chairs or the RATS list to volunteer.

Thanks,
Ned


Ned Smith - Intel - ned.smith@intel.com


________________________________________
From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)=
 <ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:20 PM
To: rats@ietf.org
Subject: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda

Hello RATs WG,

We have two time slots (ICT or UTC+7)scheduled for IETF 109:
   Tuesday Nov 17 16:00-18:00
   Thursday Nov 19 16:00-18:00

However, as I have only received a few requests, we may not need the Thursd=
ay slot.  Here's the current agenda:

RATS agenda for Tuesday November 17, 2020

* Agenda bash (5min)

* Architecture Update-  Michael Richardson (5 min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architectu=
re/

* CHARRA Update - Eric Voit (10min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-c=
harra/

* Interaction Model Update- Henk Birkholz (10min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-rats-refere=
nce-interaction-model/

* EAT Update - Laurence Lundblade (40min)
                https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-eat/

* FIDO and EAT dependencies  - Giri Mandyam (10min)

* AOB

Jabber: xmpp:rats@jabber.ietf.org?join
MeetEcho: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats
Notes in: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats

For any other requests, please send to rats-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:rats-cha=
irs@ietf.org>

Thanks,
   Nancy

_______________________________________________
RATS mailing list
RATS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Thanks Panwei!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Panwei (William) &lt;william.panwei@huaw=
ei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 6:35 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Smith, Ned &lt;ned.smith@intel.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) &lt;ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.iet=
f.org&gt;, rats@ietf.org &lt;rats@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hi Ned,<br>
<br>
I volunteer to be the notes taker.<br>
<br>
Regards &amp; Thanks!<br>
Wei Pan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: RATS [<a href=3D"mailto:rats-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:rats-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Smith, Ned<br>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 3:38 AM<br>
To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) &lt;ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&g=
t;; rats@ietf.org<br>
Subject: Re: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda - Notes Takers<br>
<br>
I'll volunteer to be one of the notes takers. But it works best if there ar=
e three. That way, if you are also a presenter there will always be at leas=
t two notes takers.<br>
<br>
Please reply to the chairs or the RATS list to volunteer. <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Ned<br>
<br>
<br>
Ned Smith - Intel - ned.smith@intel.com<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: RATS &lt;rats-bounces@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Nancy Cam-Winget (nca=
mwing) &lt;ncamwing=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:20 PM<br>
To: rats@ietf.org<br>
Subject: [Rats] IETF 109 Agenda<br>
<br>
Hello RATs WG,<br>
<br>
We have two time slots (ICT or UTC+7)scheduled for IETF 109:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday Nov 17 16:00-18:00<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday Nov 19 16:00-18:00<br>
<br>
However, as I have only received a few requests, we may not need the Thursd=
ay slot.&nbsp; Here's the current agenda:<br>
<br>
RATS agenda for Tuesday November 17, 2020<br>
<br>
* Agenda bash (5min)<br>
<br>
* Architecture Update-&nbsp; Michael Richardson (5 min)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats=
-architecture/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architecture/</a><br>
<br>
* CHARRA Update - Eric Voit (10min)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats=
-yang-tpm-charra/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-charra/</a><br>
<br>
* Interaction Model Update- Henk Birkholz (10min)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-=
rats-reference-interaction-model/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-birkholz-rats-reference-interaction-=
model/</a><br>
<br>
* EAT Update - Laurence Lundblade (40min)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats=
-eat/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-eat/</a><br>
<br>
* FIDO and EAT dependencies&nbsp; - Giri Mandyam (10min)<br>
<br>
* AOB<br>
<br>
Jabber: xmpp:rats@jabber.ietf.org?join<br>
MeetEcho: <a href=3D"https://www.meetecho.com/ietf109/rats">https://www.mee=
techo.com/ietf109/rats</a><br>
Notes in: <a href=3D"https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats">https://c=
odimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-rats</a><br>
<br>
For any other requests, please send to rats-chairs@ietf.org&lt;mailto:rats-=
chairs@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Nancy<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RATS mailing list<br>
RATS@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/rats</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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Hi all,

as the IETF meeting starts next week and maybe some individuals might 
enjoy to procrastinate from preparing their materials a bit, I'd like to 
provide a convenient opportunity.

Please have a loot at:

Section 6 - Normative Prerequisites
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rats-reference-interaction-models-01#section-6

and Section 7 - Generic Information Elements
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rats-reference-interaction-models-01#section-7

of
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rats-reference-interaction-models-01

It is of course okay to read other parts of the document, but these two 
sections are intended to lay out the basic foundations required to 
conduct RATS in general and will benefit from feedback.

If you encounter items in sections 6 & 7 that feel unnecessary, to 
vague, or to specific, if there are items missing or illustrated 
confusingly or misleadingly, please reply here via email or create an Issue
> https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/draft-ietf-rats-reference-interaction-models/issues

or PR
> https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/draft-ietf-rats-reference-interaction-models/pulls

on github.


Thanks & Viele Grüße,

Henk



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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:16:47 +0000
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Subject: [Rats] EAT implementation (hackathon report)
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Hi all,

Sergei and I have been busy implementing the latest EAT spec at the hackath=
on.

We started from scratch and in three days we managed to produce a full
implementation [1] that is about 2.5KLOC, including 50+ accompanying
tests.

Overall, the impression is that the document is in pretty good shape
and can be implemented without too much ambiguity.

Here are a few random things we noticed in the process and that we
wanted to share with the EAT editors as well as the wider group:

1. It's not clear what is the story around the extensibility of single
claims?  E.g., if I wanted to expand the semantics of "Debug Disable"
or "Security Level" with my own local semantics, how would I do that?
This question popped when discussing whether the decoder should accept
values not currently listed and make them available to the user?

2. Typo: The "nonce" JSON label is missing from Section 4.3.1

3. The JSON story is nearly OK, except for two things: the Submods
claim where the JSON:CBOR equivalency is broken by allowing unbounded
int keys in CBOR that can't have an equivalent in JSON; the
StringOrURI type whose semantics can be preserved when transcoding.
The former could be solved by only allowing string labels.  The latter
by declaring we only deal in strings.

4. The CDDL for CWT claims is currently wrong: it=E2=80=99d allow only one =
CWT
claim at a time in the EAT map.  Scaling up a bit, we should probably
have a CDDL socket for EAT extensions in the top-level map (maybe
starting from CWT claims).

5. The CBOR interoperability section should have normative language
where needed and double check that there are no copy-pasted
requirements from other documents without an explicit ref -- e.g., the
stray "Duplicate map keys are not allowed." should have a ref to 7049.

6. Some typographic thoughts about Debug Disable claim.  The "disable"
in "Debug disable" is redundant; it'd be better renaming it as just
"Debug" or "Debug status". A bit more consistent wording wouldn=E2=80=99t h=
urt
too. e.g.:
* "Not disabled" =3D> =E2=80=9Cenabled=E2=80=9D -- this, combined with the =
above
suggestion, would move us from "debug disable not disabled" to a
simpler to digest "debug enabled" :-)
* "Permanent disable" =3D> "disabled permanently"
* "Full permanent disable" =3D> "disabled fully and permanently"

I think that's it; Sergei might have something more.

I can make Issues and PRs for all of the above if needed.

Thanks!

[1] https://github.com/veraison/eat

--=20
Thomas


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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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Amazing Thomas!

Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
    > Here are a few random things we noticed in the process and that we
    > wanted to share with the EAT editors as well as the wider group:

    > 1. It's not clear what is the story around the extensibility of single
    > claims?  E.g., if I wanted to expand the semantics of "Debug Disable"
    > or "Security Level" with my own local semantics, how would I do that?
    > This question popped when discussing whether the decoder should accept
    > values not currently listed and make them available to the user?

At the least, it should be tolerant of them.
It should make them available, I think.

    > 5. The CBOR interoperability section should have normative language
    > where needed and double check that there are no copy-pasted
    > requirements from other documents without an explicit ref -- e.g., the
    > stray "Duplicate map keys are not allowed." should have a ref to 7049.

!Yes.

    > 6. Some typographic thoughts about Debug Disable claim.  The "disable"
    > in "Debug disable" is redundant; it'd be better renaming it as just
    > "Debug" or "Debug status". A bit more consistent wording wouldn=E2=80=
=99t hurt
    > too. e.g.:

That makes sense.

    > I think that's it; Sergei might have something more.

    > I can make Issues and PRs for all of the above if needed.

Do you have examples you might want to put into to the document?

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti=
ng )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide

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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 15:40:40 -0500
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To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>, rats@ietf.org, sergei.trofimov@arm.com
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Subject: Re: [Rats] EAT implementation (hackathon report)
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--000000000000d1abe405b4030c6c
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Thank you, Thomas and Sergei!  This is really great work and good to see
your thoughts on the readiness of the document from an implementation
standpoint.

Best regards,
Kathleen

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 4:58 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
wrote:

>
> Amazing Thomas!
>
> Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>     > Here are a few random things we noticed in the process and that we
>     > wanted to share with the EAT editors as well as the wider group:
>
>     > 1. It's not clear what is the story around the extensibility of
> single
>     > claims?  E.g., if I wanted to expand the semantics of "Debug Disabl=
e"
>     > or "Security Level" with my own local semantics, how would I do tha=
t?
>     > This question popped when discussing whether the decoder should
> accept
>     > values not currently listed and make them available to the user?
>
> At the least, it should be tolerant of them.
> It should make them available, I think.
>
>     > 5. The CBOR interoperability section should have normative language
>     > where needed and double check that there are no copy-pasted
>     > requirements from other documents without an explicit ref -- e.g.,
> the
>     > stray "Duplicate map keys are not allowed." should have a ref to
> 7049.
>
> !Yes.
>
>     > 6. Some typographic thoughts about Debug Disable claim.  The
> "disable"
>     > in "Debug disable" is redundant; it'd be better renaming it as just
>     > "Debug" or "Debug status". A bit more consistent wording wouldn=E2=
=80=99t
> hurt
>     > too. e.g.:
>
> That makes sense.
>
>     > I think that's it; Sergei might have something more.
>
>     > I can make Issues and PRs for all of the above if needed.
>
> Do you have examples you might want to put into to the document?
>
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul=
ting )
>            Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> _______________________________________________
> RATS mailing list
> RATS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats
>


--=20

Best regards,
Kathleen

--000000000000d1abe405b4030c6c
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you, Thomas and Sergei!=C2=A0 This is really great w=
ork and good to see your thoughts on the readiness of the document from an =
implementation standpoint.<div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathl=
een</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 4:58 PM Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:mcr%2Bietf@sandelman.ca">mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca</a>&gt; wrote:<br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Amazing Thomas!<br>
<br>
Thomas Fossati &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tho.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
tho.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Here are a few random things we noticed in the process a=
nd that we<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; wanted to share with the EAT editors as well as the wide=
r group:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; 1. It&#39;s not clear what is the story around the exten=
sibility of single<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; claims?=C2=A0 E.g., if I wanted to expand the semantics =
of &quot;Debug Disable&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; or &quot;Security Level&quot; with my own local semantic=
s, how would I do that?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; This question popped when discussing whether the decoder=
 should accept<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; values not currently listed and make them available to t=
he user?<br>
<br>
At the least, it should be tolerant of them.<br>
It should make them available, I think.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; 5. The CBOR interoperability section should have normati=
ve language<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; where needed and double check that there are no copy-pas=
ted<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; requirements from other documents without an explicit re=
f -- e.g., the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; stray &quot;Duplicate map keys are not allowed.&quot; sh=
ould have a ref to 7049.<br>
<br>
!Yes.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; 6. Some typographic thoughts about Debug Disable claim.=
=C2=A0 The &quot;disable&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; in &quot;Debug disable&quot; is redundant; it&#39;d be b=
etter renaming it as just<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &quot;Debug&quot; or &quot;Debug status&quot;. A bit mor=
e consistent wording wouldn=E2=80=99t hurt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; too. e.g.:<br>
<br>
That makes sense.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; I think that&#39;s it; Sergei might have something more.=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; I can make Issues and PRs for all of the above if needed=
.<br>
<br>
Do you have examples you might want to put into to the document?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca" target=3D=
"_blank">mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca</a>&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0. o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co=
nsulting )<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sandelman Software Works Inc, Otta=
wa and Worldwide<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RATS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:RATS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">RATS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><di=
v>Kathleen</div></div></div>

--000000000000d1abe405b4030c6c--


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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 17:14:12 -0500
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To: "Panwei (William)" <william.panwei@huawei.com>, rats@ietf.org
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Subject: [Rats] RATS Architecture IPR Questions
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Hello Panwei,

I hope you are well!

I am reviewing the IPR and way forward for the RATS Architecture document
and have a few questions for you.

1. I see the IPR was filed in China, was it filed elsewhere?
2. What version of the document was this filed against?  If it's the
current, then I have 2 additional questions.
3. Section 6: Since it is common in computing to combine roles and have
them be performed by the same part of the infrastructure, are there
specific role combinations that were filed in the patent?
4. Section 4.3: discusses the types of environments for attestations.  I
see both of the models discussed in a textbook published in 2005 (full
reference below), so I am not sure if this is what Huawei has filed?
Attestations that are local are common for TCG work and they had talked
about the idea of remote attestations with the verifier and attester being
separate entities or systems going way back in time.

Please see chapters 11 & 12 of *Trusted Computing Platforms: Design and
Applications*. Smith, Sean. Springer (publisher). 2005.

The TCG likely has discussed these models prior to the book referenced as
well, but research may be needed.

Clarification would be much appreciated for the WG to decide how to move
forward.

-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Panwei,<div><br></div><div>I hope you are well!</div=
><div><br></div><div>I am reviewing the IPR and way forward for the RATS Ar=
chitecture document and have a few questions=C2=A0for you.</div><div><br></=
div><div>1. I see the IPR was filed in China, was it filed elsewhere?</div>=
<div>2. What version of the document was this filed=C2=A0against?=C2=A0 If =
it&#39;s the current, then I have 2 additional questions.</div><div>3. Sect=
ion 6: Since it is common in computing to combine roles and have them be pe=
rformed by the same part of the infrastructure, are there specific=C2=A0rol=
e combinations that were filed in the patent?=C2=A0</div><div>4. Section 4.=
3: discusses the types of environments for attestations.=C2=A0 I see both o=
f the models discussed in a textbook published in 2005 (full reference belo=
w), so I am not sure if this is what Huawei=C2=A0has filed?=C2=A0 Attestati=
ons that are local are common for TCG work and they had talked about the id=
ea of remote attestations with the verifier and attester being separate ent=
ities or systems going way back in time.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Please see chapters 11 &amp; 12 of <b>Trusted Computing Platforms: Desig=
n and Applications</b>. Smith, Sean. Springer (publisher). 2005.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>The TCG likely has discussed these models prior to the book =
referenced as well, but research may be needed.</div><div><br></div><div>Cl=
arification would be much appreciated for the WG to decide how to move forw=
ard.</div><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Best regards,<=
/div><div>Kathleen</div></div></div></div>

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From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
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To: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Rats] EAT implementation (hackathon report)
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> On Nov 12, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> Sergei and I have been busy implementing the latest EAT spec at the =
hackathon.
>=20
> We started from scratch and in three days we managed to produce a full
> implementation [1] that is about 2.5KLOC, including 50+ accompanying
> tests.
>=20
> Overall, the impression is that the document is in pretty good shape
> and can be implemented without too much ambiguity.
>=20
> Here are a few random things we noticed in the process and that we
> wanted to share with the EAT editors as well as the wider group:
>=20
> 1. It's not clear what is the story around the extensibility of single
> claims?  E.g., if I wanted to expand the semantics of "Debug Disable"
> or "Security Level" with my own local semantics, how would I do that?
> This question popped when discussing whether the decoder should accept
> values not currently listed and make them available to the user?

I don=E2=80=99t think these should be extensible. You can=E2=80=99t make =
up your own corporate bond rating category or restaurant hygene rating =
category and such. If that is allowed the scheme becomes much less =
useful.=20

I=E2=80=99ve added text for that in this PR =
<https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/73>. It says that when you =
can=E2=80=99t live with the defined security level schema, omit the =
claim, make up your own claim or do both.

Also, see this old but unresolved discussion =
<https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/4> on security level. One =
thing nice about a very simple three-level scheme is that it becomes =
clear this is a very rough top-level characterization only.


>=20
> 2. Typo: The "nonce" JSON label is missing from Section 4.3.1

The JWT nonce was already in the IANA registry for JWT. I added CDDL for =
it and note that some of the CDDL in EAT is for things defined elsewhere =
before there was CDDL.  See this PR =
<https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/72>.


>=20
> 3. The JSON story is nearly OK, except for two things: the Submods
> claim where the JSON:CBOR equivalency is broken by allowing unbounded
> int keys in CBOR that can't have an equivalent in JSON; the
> StringOrURI type whose semantics can be preserved when transcoding.
> The former could be solved by only allowing string labels.  The latter
> by declaring we only deal in strings.

Pushed a fix for StringOrURI to master.

Made submodule names string only as part of this PR =
<https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/67>. Was thinking that they =
should only be strings myself.=20


No progress on the others yet. Would appreciate issues being opened.


Really appreciate the work and the validation of the application of CDDL =
to JSON! Thanks for the good comments.

LL


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 12, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Thomas Fossati &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tho.ietf@gmail.com" class=3D"">tho.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Hi all,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Sergei and I have been =
busy implementing the latest EAT spec at the hackathon.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">We started from scratch and in three days we managed to =
produce a full<br class=3D"">implementation [1] that is about 2.5KLOC, =
including 50+ accompanying<br class=3D"">tests.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Overall, the impression is that the document is in pretty =
good shape<br class=3D"">and can be implemented without too much =
ambiguity.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Here are a few random things we =
noticed in the process and that we<br class=3D"">wanted to share with =
the EAT editors as well as the wider group:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">1. It's not clear what is the story around the extensibility =
of single<br class=3D"">claims? &nbsp;E.g., if I wanted to expand the =
semantics of "Debug Disable"<br class=3D"">or "Security Level" with my =
own local semantics, how would I do that?<br class=3D"">This question =
popped when discussing whether the decoder should accept<br =
class=3D"">values not currently listed and make them available to the =
user?<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I don=E2=80=99t think these should be extensible. =
You can=E2=80=99t make up your own corporate bond rating category or =
restaurant hygene rating category and such. If that is allowed the =
scheme becomes much less useful.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I=E2=80=99ve added text for that in&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/73" class=3D"">this =
PR</a>. It says that when you can=E2=80=99t live with the defined =
security level schema, omit the claim, make up your own claim or do =
both.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Also, see&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/4" class=3D"">this =
old but unresolved discussion</a>&nbsp;on security level. One thing nice =
about a very simple three-level scheme is that it becomes clear this is =
a very rough top-level characterization only.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">2. Typo: The "nonce" JSON =
label is missing from Section 4.3.1<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The =
JWT nonce was already in the IANA registry for JWT. I added CDDL for it =
and note that some of the CDDL in EAT is for things defined elsewhere =
before there was CDDL. &nbsp;See this&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/72" =
class=3D"">PR</a>.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">3. The JSON story is nearly OK, except for two =
things: the Submods<br class=3D"">claim where the JSON:CBOR equivalency =
is broken by allowing unbounded<br class=3D"">int keys in CBOR that =
can't have an equivalent in JSON; the<br class=3D"">StringOrURI type =
whose semantics can be preserved when transcoding.<br class=3D"">The =
former could be solved by only allowing string labels. &nbsp;The =
latter<br class=3D"">by declaring we only deal in strings.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Pushed =
a fix for StringOrURI to master.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Made =
submodule names string only as part of&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/67" class=3D"">this =
PR</a>. Was thinking that they should only be strings =
myself.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">No progress on the others yet. Would appreciate issues being =
opened.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Really appreciate the work and the =
validation of the application of CDDL to JSON! Thanks for the good =
comments.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">LL</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:28:57 +0000
Message-ID: <CAObGJnMkiqvccodsTyxgT6kJy5k0UsQwHPzJQiuduNb3qd9Wkw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
Cc: rats@ietf.org, sergei.trofimov@arm.com
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Subject: Re: [Rats] EAT implementation (hackathon report)
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Hi Laurence, Nancy, Kathleen and Michael,

(Apologies for top-posting.)  Following Nancy's advice, I've opened
the following issues:

https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/74
https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/75
https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/76
https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/77
https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/78
https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/79

including Laurence's replies below.

cheers!

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 7:17 PM Laurence Lundblade
<lgl@island-resort.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Sergei and I have been busy implementing the latest EAT spec at the hacka=
thon.
>
> We started from scratch and in three days we managed to produce a full
> implementation [1] that is about 2.5KLOC, including 50+ accompanying
> tests.
>
> Overall, the impression is that the document is in pretty good shape
> and can be implemented without too much ambiguity.
>
> Here are a few random things we noticed in the process and that we
> wanted to share with the EAT editors as well as the wider group:
>
> 1. It's not clear what is the story around the extensibility of single
> claims?  E.g., if I wanted to expand the semantics of "Debug Disable"
> or "Security Level" with my own local semantics, how would I do that?
> This question popped when discussing whether the decoder should accept
> values not currently listed and make them available to the user?
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t think these should be extensible. You can=E2=80=99t make =
up your own corporate bond rating category or restaurant hygene rating cate=
gory and such. If that is allowed the scheme becomes much less useful.
>
> I=E2=80=99ve added text for that in this PR. It says that when you can=E2=
=80=99t live with the defined security level schema, omit the claim, make u=
p your own claim or do both.
>
> Also, see this old but unresolved discussion on security level. One thing=
 nice about a very simple three-level scheme is that it becomes clear this =
is a very rough top-level characterization only.
>
>
>
> 2. Typo: The "nonce" JSON label is missing from Section 4.3.1
>
>
> The JWT nonce was already in the IANA registry for JWT. I added CDDL for =
it and note that some of the CDDL in EAT is for things defined elsewhere be=
fore there was CDDL.  See this PR.
>
>
>
> 3. The JSON story is nearly OK, except for two things: the Submods
> claim where the JSON:CBOR equivalency is broken by allowing unbounded
> int keys in CBOR that can't have an equivalent in JSON; the
> StringOrURI type whose semantics can be preserved when transcoding.
> The former could be solved by only allowing string labels.  The latter
> by declaring we only deal in strings.
>
>
> Pushed a fix for StringOrURI to master.
>
> Made submodule names string only as part of this PR. Was thinking that th=
ey should only be strings myself.
>
>
> No progress on the others yet. Would appreciate issues being opened.
>
>
> Really appreciate the work and the validation of the application of CDDL =
to JSON! Thanks for the good comments.
>
> LL
>


--=20
Thomas


From nobody Sat Nov 14 16:50:28 2020
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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 00:50:12 +0000
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To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>, "sergei.trofimov@arm.com" <sergei.trofimov@arm.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/JndfgBoUtED2oupFcUs3D5jDhYc>
Subject: Re: [Rats] EAT implementation (hackathon report)
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Hi Nancy,

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 8:58 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)
<ncamwing@cisco.com> wrote:
> It would be great if you can contribute examples....

Do you mean code examples?  If so, there's nothing at the moment, but
we are going to work on expanding the documentation [1] to contain
code snippets to show how to use the API.
Or do you mean examples of output produced by the library?
Or something else?

cheers, t

[1] https://pkg.go.dev/github.com/veraison/eat
-- 
Thomas


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To: "Panwei (William)" <william.panwei@huawei.com>, "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
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From: "Panwei (William)" <william.panwei@huawei.com>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RATS Architecture IPR Questions
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 06:46:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Rats] RATS Architecture IPR Questions
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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 11:39:17 +0000
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To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>, "sergei.trofimov@arm.com" <sergei.trofimov@arm.com>
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Subject: Re: [Rats] EAT implementation (hackathon report)
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Hi Nancy, thanks for the clarification!

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 6:13 AM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)
<ncamwing@cisco.com> wrote:
> No need for code, but the EAT draft only has two simple examples,
> so having something that you have actually tried and may be good;
> so more of the output produced from your library.

I can surely provide more examples if needed using our library, but my
suggestion would be to use the CBOR diag-based assembly and
verification [1] instead, which is now built in the EAT draft
pipeline.

cheers!

[1] https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/69

-- 
Thomas


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Subject: [Rats] The context claim -- classification of intended use
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	charset=utf-8

This is about the context claim proposed in this PR =
<https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/60>.

It classifies the use intended by the create of an attestation into the =
five listed below. Protocols using EAT can use this claim if they want =
to tell the RP the intended use if they want to.

My question to the list is whether this classification system is =
reasonably complete. Does it work for the FIDO, IoT on-boarding, Android =
attestation, the router use cases, TEEP=E2=80=A6

Since this is claim is optional and there is a generic classification, =
the classification doesn=E2=80=99t need to be perfect, but it seems =
useful to check it against the use cases folks have in mind for EAT.

Thanks,

LL


1 =E2=80=94 On-demand (generic)
: On-demand attestation describes an application where the EAT consumer
requres the most up-to-date security assessment of the attesting entity. =
It
is expected that this is the most commonly-used application of EAT.

2-- Registration
: Entities that are registering for a new service may be expected to=20
provide an attestation as part of the registration process.  This =
context
setting indicates that the attestation is not intended for any use but =
registration.

3 -- Provisioning
: Entities may be provisioned with different values or settings by an =
EAT
consumer.  Examples include key material or device management trees.  =
The consumer
may require an EAT to assess device security state of the entity prior =
to provisioning.

4 -- Certificate Issuance (Certificate Signing Request)
: Certifying authorities (CA's) may require attestations prior to
the issuance of certificates related to keypairs hosted at the entity.  =
An
EAT may be used as part of the certificate signing request (CSR).

5 -- Proof-of-Possession
: An EAT consumer may require an attestation as part of an accompanying=20=

proof-of-possession (PoP) appication.  This may be neceesary to verify =
the
security state of the entity storing the private key used in a PoP =
application.=

--Apple-Mail=_08437C93-823E-42CC-8B6E-B29D8B636ED9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">This =
is about the context claim proposed in this&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/pull/60" =
class=3D"">PR</a>.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It =
classifies the use intended by the create of an attestation into the =
five listed below. Protocols using EAT can use this claim if they want =
to tell the RP the intended use if they want to.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">My question to the list is whether this =
classification system is reasonably complete. Does it work for the FIDO, =
IoT on-boarding, Android attestation, the router use cases, =
TEEP=E2=80=A6</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Since this is claim is optional and there is a generic =
classification, the classification doesn=E2=80=99t need to be perfect, =
but it seems useful to check it against the use cases folks have in mind =
for EAT.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">LL</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">1 =E2=80=94 On-demand (generic)</div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">: On-demand attestation describes an =
application where the EAT consumer</div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">requres the most up-to-date security assessment of the =
attesting entity. It</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">is =
expected that this is the most commonly-used application of =
EAT.</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">2-- =
Registration</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">: Entities that =
are registering for a new service may be expected =
to&nbsp;</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">provide an =
attestation as part of the registration process. &nbsp;This =
context</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">setting indicates =
that the attestation is not intended for any use but =
registration.</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">3 -- =
Provisioning</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">: Entities may =
be provisioned with different values or settings by an =
EAT</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">consumer. &nbsp;Examples =
include key material or device management trees. &nbsp;The =
consumer</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">may require an EAT =
to assess device security state of the entity prior to =
provisioning.</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">4 -- Certificate =
Issuance (Certificate Signing Request)</div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">: Certifying authorities (CA's) may require attestations =
prior to</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">the issuance of =
certificates related to keypairs hosted at the entity. =
&nbsp;An</div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">EAT may be used as =
part of the certificate signing request (CSR).</div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">5 -- Proof-of-Possession</div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">: An EAT consumer may require an attestation as part of an =
accompanying&nbsp;</div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">proof-of-possession (PoP) appication. &nbsp;This may be =
neceesary to verify the</div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">security state of the entity storing the private key used in =
a PoP application.</div></div></blockquote></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_08437C93-823E-42CC-8B6E-B29D8B636ED9--


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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
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From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:55:07 +0000
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To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>, Simon Frost <simon.frost@arm.com>, manu.gupta@arm.com, yogesh.deshpande@arm.com
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Subject: Re: [Rats] WGLC and IPR updates for RATs Architecture draft
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Hi Nancy, all,

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 8:55 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)
<ncamwing=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> This email is the start of a 3 week Working Group Last Call for the RATs architecture draft:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-architecture/
>
> The WGLC will run until Nov 16, 2020.

This is our WGLC review of draft-ietf-rats-architecture-07.


** Summary:

The document is in fairly good shape and nearly ready to be shipped.

A big thank you to all the people involved!

** A few top-level points:

1) The split between Endorsements and Reference Values is not completely
   ironed out yet.  Endorsements are not super clearly defined.

This seems to be the only non-trivial missing piece.

2) The appendix on Handles needs some work to better clarify the concepts
   and simplify the flow.

3) It'd be great to do something around Terminology and use cases.  Simon
   has proposed rationale for restructuring as well as text to address
   the identified issues in PR#164 [1].  We'd be happy to help working on
   that until it can be merged.

[1] https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/architecture/pull/164

4) The prose is at times a bit prolix and could be streamlined,
   especially in places where style tends to obscure the information
   content.

** Detailed comments and editorial suggestions:

[ Abstract ]

Maybe define the term "attestation" before using it in the phrase "such
remote attestation procedures"

[ 1.  Introduction ]

OLD
    This documents defines

NEW
    This document defines


OLD
   to enable implementers in order to choose appropriate solutions to
   compose

NEW
   to enable implementers to choose appropriate solutions to compose


OLD
   Appraisal Policy for Attestation Results:  A set of rules that direct
      how a Relying Party uses the Attestation Results regarding an
      Attester generated by the Verifiers.

NEW(a)
   Appraisal Policy for Attestation Results: A set of rules that directs
      how a Relying Party uses the Attestation Results generated by a
      Verifier.

or, if the Attester has to be mentioned:

NEW(b)
   Appraisal Policy for Attestation Results: A set of rules that directs
      how a Relying Party uses the Attestation Results generated by a
      Verifier in response to appraisal of Evidence from an Attester.

OLD
      [...]
      integrity of an Attester's various capabilities such as Claims
      collections and Evidence signing

NEW
      [...]
      integrity of an Attester's ability to collect Claims and sign
      Evidence.

OLD
   Relying Party:  A role performed by an entity that depends on the
      validity of information about an Attester, for purposes of
      reliably applying application specific actions.

NEW
   Relying Party:  A role performed by an entity that depends on the
      trustworthiness of information about an Attester, for purposes of
      taking application specific decisions.

[ 3.1.  Network Endpoint Assessment ]

OLD
   [...] version of information of the hardware and software

NEW
   [...] version information about the hardware and software


In the sentence "[...] record maintenance and/or trending reports
(logging)", it's not clear what "trending reports" have to do with
"logging"?


The para:

   Typically, solutions start with a specific component (called a "root
   of trust") that provides device identity and protected storage for
   measurements.  The system components perform a series of measurements

is probably not a very accurate description of what happens with
measured boot, i.e., that the measurer itself has to be part of the RoT.
It can't be a generic component whose measurements are (blindly?) signed
by the RoT.


OLD
   the hardware, firmware, BIOS, software, etc. that is running.

NEW
   the hardware, firmware, BIOS, software, etc. that is present.

(Using "present" because hardware is not strictly "running".)


OLD
   Relying Party:  A network infrastructure device such as a router,
      switch, or access point

NEW
   Relying Party:  A network infrastructure device such as a router,
      switch, or access point, responsible for admission of the device
      into the network.


[ 3.2.  Confidential Machine Learning (ML) Model Protection ]

OLD
   This typically works by having some protected environment in the
   device go through a remote attestation with some manufacturer service
   that can assess its trustworthiness.

NEW
   This typically works by having the ML application request attestation
   evidence from the device and engage with the manufacturer to assess
   the trustworthiness of said evidence.


[ 3.3.  Confidential Data Retrieval ]

The para:

   An assessment of system state is made against a set of policies to
   evaluate the state of a system using attestations for the system
   requesting data.

is not exactly crystal clear.  What about:

   As part of attestation procedure, an assessment is made against a set
   of policies to evaluate the state of the system which is requesting
   the confidential data.


[ 3.4.  Critical Infrastructure Control ]

This section could be expanded to include the case where the roles are
swapped: the sensor that provides critical input into a controller needs
to provide evidence of its trustworthiness before the controller can
comfortably act upon its stimulus (e.g., opening a valve.)


[ 3.5.  Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) Provisioning ]

Maybe an information reference to TEEP could be added here?


[ 3.6.  Hardware Watchdog ]

There seems to be some confusion here: initially it is said that the
"Relying Party is the watchdog timer in the TPM."  Subsequently, the
Relying Party is defined as "A remote server that will securely grant
the Attester [...]".  So, what is it?


[ 3.7.  FIDO Biometric Authentication ]

The definition of Relying Party:

   Any web site, mobile application back end or service that does
   biometric authentication.

seems slightly inaccurate: the web site doesn't do biometric auth.  The
authenticator binds biometric to crypto material so that the web site
can deal with usual crypto auth.


[ 4.  Architectural Overview ]

In Figure 1 there should be a mention to the Reference Value Provider.

OLD
   pppraisal policy to make application-specific decisions such as

NEW
   appraisal policy to make application-specific decisions such as


[ 4.2.  Reference Values ]

This seems to skip the relationship with the Reference Value Provider
now that's been split from the Endorser role, and also seems to muddle
the distinction between Ref-Values and Endorsements (i.e., Ref-Values
could be a subset of the information carried in an Endorsement.)


[ 4.3.  Two Types of Environments of an Attester ]

OLD
   Other examples may exist, and the examples discussed could even be
   combined into even more complex implementations.

NEW
   Other examples may exist.  Besides, the examples discussed could be
   combined into even more complex implementations.


OLD
   [...] taking measurements on code
   or memory and so on of the Target Environment.

NEW
   [...] taking measurements on code,
   memory or other security related objects of the Target Environment


"An execution environment [...]" is introduced without a definition.  It
might be not self-evident.  Is this an alias for TEE?  Or something
else?


The content of this para:

   By definition, the Attester role creates Evidence.  An Attester may
   consist of one or more nested or staged environments, adding
   complexity to the architectural structure.  The unifying component is
   the root of trust and the nested, staged, or chained attestation
   Evidence produced.  The nested or chained structure includes Claims,
   collected by the Attester to aid in the assurance or believability of
   the attestation Evidence.

is a slightly confusing.  What do we really want to say?  Also,
"nested", "staged", "chained": let's pick one and stick with it ;-)


OLD
   Figure 3 depicts an example of a device that includes (A) a BIOS
   stored in read-only memory in this example, (B) an updatable [...]

NEW
   The device in Figure 3 includes (A) a BIOS stored in read-only
   memory, (B) an updatable [...]


OLD
   Therefore, these Claims have to be measured securely.

NEW
   Therefore, the relevant Claims have to be measured securely.


This para:

   In general, the
   number of layers may vary by device or implementation, and an
   Attesting Environment might even have multiple Target Environments

introduces the capitalised "Attesting Environment" and "Target
Environment".  Do they deserve their own entry in the Terminology
section?


[ 4.5.  Composite Device ]

WRT the trust model of a composite device: it looks like the lead
attester needs to be trusted to collect the most fresh evidence from the
other slots?  Is this discussed anywhere?


In this para:

   After collecting the Evidence of other Attesters,
   this inside Verifier uses Endorsements and appraisal policies

Shouldn't Endorsements be Ref-Values instead?


[ 5.  Topological Models ]

The three sentences "There are multiple [...]", "This section includes
[...]" and "This is not intended [...]" are slightly vague.  It doesn't
seem to me that their information content is enough to justify them
being independent sentences.  Maybe they should be combined?


[ 5.1.  Passport Model ]

Should this section have a forward ref to the freshness section, or
otherwise discuss the freshness of the attestation results?


This para:

   There are three ways in which the process may fail.  First, the
   Verifier may refuse to issue the Attestation Result due to some error
   in processing, or some missing input to the Verifier.  The second way
   in which the process may fail is when the Attestation Result is
   examined by the Relying Party, and based upon the appraisal policy,
   the result does not pass the policy.  The third way is when the
   Verifier is unreachable.

not sure why is this relevant?


[ 5.2.  Background-Check Model ]

The para:

   Hence, the ability to let the Relying Party obtain an Attestation
   Result [...]

seems to reshuffle the content of the preceding one.  The two can be
combined / streamlined.


[ 5.3.  Combinations ]

   It is also worth pointing out that the choice of model is generally
   up to the Relying Party

I'm not sure it "is up to the RP", rather it "depends on the RP" because
it's typically not a choice of the RP but of the use case / protocol
flow in which the RP operates.


[ 6.  Roles and Entities ]

This sentence:

   An entity in the RATS architecture includes at least one of the roles
   defined in this document.

creates a bit of cognitive dissonance: in the Terminology section the
Endorser, Ref-val Provider, RP Owner and Verifier Owner are defined as
"entities", however, they don't include any of the roles (Verifier, RP,
Attester).


In the sentence:

   Alternative channels to convey conceptual messages [...]

maybe insert a forward reference to Section 8 (conceptual messages).


OLD
   As a system bus entity, [...]

NEW
   As a system bus-connected entity, [...]


[ 7.1.  Relying Party ]

OLD
   The scope of this document is scenarios for which a Relying Party
   [...]

NEW
   This document covers scenarios for which a Relying Party [...]



[ 7.2.  Attester ]

OLD
   The Verifier might share this information
   with other authorized parties, according to rules that it controls.

NEW
   The Verifier might share this information
   with other authorized parties, according to some predefined rules.


OLD
   In some cases where Evidence contains sensitive information, an
   Attester might even require that a Verifier first go through a TLS
   authentication or a remote attestation procedure with it before the
   Attester will send the sensitive Evidence.

NEW
   When Evidence contains sensitive information, an Attester typically requires
   that a Verifier authenticates itself (e.g., at TLS session
   establishment), and might even require a remote attestation before
   the Attester sends the sensitive Evidence.


[ 7.4.  Verifier ]

OLD
   is critical to the secure operation an Attestation system,

NEW
   is critical to the secure operation of an Attestation system,



[ 8.2.  Endorsements ]

This section doesn't provide a clear and concise definition of what is
meant by Endorsement.  Instead it goes in depth discussing the rather
tangent topic of access authorisation based on one kind of Endorsement.

I suggest this section is re-shaped to discuss:
* What is an endorsement conceptually;
  * Why we need to make it a first class object distinct from ref-values
    and other inputs to the verifier;
* A few instances of Endorsements;
* One example usage in the attestation workflow


[ 8.3.  Attestation Results ]

OLD
   Attestation Results
   may be a Boolean simply indicating compliance or non-compliance with
   a Verifier's appraisal policy, or a rich set of Claims about the
   Attester

NEW
   Attestation Results
   may carry a boolean value indicating compliance or non-compliance with
   a Verifier's appraisal policy, or a richer set of Claims about the
   Attester


This para:

   In some cases, it may
   even indicate that the Evidence itself cannot be authenticated as
   being correct

What does "authenticated as being correct" mean?
I suggest dropping the paragraph altogether.


OLD
   The simplest such policy might be to
   simply authorize any party supplying a compliant Attestation Result

NEW
   The simplest such policy might be to
   authorize any party supplying a compliant Attestation Result


But taking a step back, the whole para:

   The simplest such policy might be to
   simply authorize any party supplying a compliant Attestation Result
   signed by a trusted Verifier.  A more complex policy might also
   entail comparing information provided in the result against Reference
   Values, or applying more complex logic on such information.

does not seem to provide useful information, so maybe another option is
to drop it altogether.


OLD
   Thus, Attestation Results often need to include detailed information

NEW
   Thus, Attestation Results may need to include detailed information


In the sentence:

   Finally, whereas Evidence is signed by the device (or indirectly by a
   manufacturer, if Endorsements are used), [...]

I'm not sure what "or indirectly by a manufacturer, if Endorsements are
used" means?  Is it that Endorsement has the very tight meaning of
the "certificate of the device signing key signed by the manufacturer"?
If so, can we make this explicit in the Endorsements section?


[ 9.  Claims Encoding Formats ]

This sentence:

   To enable remote attestation to be added to existing protocols,
   enabling a higher level of assurance against malware for example, it
   is important that information needed for appraising the Attester be
   usable with existing protocols that have constraints around what
   formats they can transport.

it's quite hard to digest.

But more generally, the motivating use case (OPC UA) is slightly
convoluted, and I'm wondering whether it is really needed?  But
assuming it were, the exposition needs to be improved to present
a clear and compelling case.


[ 12.1.1.  On-Device Attester and Key Protection ]

OLD
   [...] a dedicated chip a TEE or such that [...]

NEW
   [...] a dedicated chip, a TEE or such that [...]


[ 12.2.  Integrity Protection ]

OLD
   Any solution that conveys information used for security purposes,
   whether such information is in the form of Evidence, Attestation
   Results, Endorsements, or appraisal policy must support end-to-end
   integrity protection and replay attack prevention,

NEW
   Any solution that conveys information used for security purposes,
   whether such information is in the form of Evidence, Attestation
   Results, Endorsements, Reference Values or appraisal policy, must
   support end-to-end integrity protection and replay attack prevention,


[ 16.3.  Example 3: Handle-based Passport Model Example ]

I have a bunch of nits on this but I think the whole section lacks
clarity and conciseness.  I'd be happy to help with a makeover.


cheers!


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From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
To: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WGLC Review of draft-ietf-rats-architecture-07
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Subject: [Rats] WGLC Review of draft-ietf-rats-architecture-07
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As part of WGLC, I have reviewed draft-ietf-rats-architecture-07, and
believe it an excellent document.  Below are three minor comments and five
nits which I believe are worth addressing.  


Major Comments
-----------------------
None


Minor Comments
-----------------------
Section  4:  General Comment  (this comment could also apply to Section 12)
It is up to the Relying Party to evaluate the Verifier.  And not all
Verifiers should be seen as equivalently trustworthy.  Additionally, any
particular Verifier might be able to provide a consistent level of certainty
in the "Attestation Results".  This is because the capabilities of the
Attesting Environment will vary.   This section does not hint at the varying
levels of certainty in the "Attestation Results" based on the varying
quality and quantity of available Evidence of different types of Attesters.
I am not sure if this truism belongs in this section.  Or if this truism
belongs in the document at all.  But without having this nuance being
described somewhere, it could leave the perception of a higher level of
confidence in the Appraisals being from a deployable RATS architecture made
than might necessarily be warranted.    Note that this issue is also alluded
to in Section 7.4 and Section 12.  But neither address things like whether
Attestation Result values should provide a minimum level of confidence
regardless of the type of Attester being evaluated.
In the end, I am fine if nothing changes in the document as a result of this
comment, but I wanted to have the authors consider whether this is worth a
statement or two.

Section  5.1
Current Text: If the Attestation Result was a successful one, the Attester
can then present the Attestation Result to a Relying Party, which then
compares the Attestation Result against its own appraisal policy.
Proposed Text: If the Attestation Result was a successful one, the Attester
can then present the Attestation Result (and possibly additional Evidence)
to a Relying Party, which then compares this information against its own
appraisal policy.
Alternative way to address comment: In Section 5.3 is a discussion on
"Combinations".  A final sentence or paragraph could be added on another
example of a combination where the Attestation Result from a Passport Model
can be a form of Evidence coming into a background check model.
Rationale #1: There are multiple statements in Section 5.1, including the
diagram which do not show additional Evidence allowed to be included as part
of the passport model.  We need at least one statement within Section 5
which shows this to be a valid scenario.  I do not think Figure 7 covers
this option sufficiently.  (Note: this goes back to previous email list
discussions showing that a even a government issued passport is stamped with
supplemental information as people transit country borders.)
Rationale #2: Section 8.3 on Attestation Results do not reference
"Combinations", nor that Attestation Results can be a type of Evidence.
Rationale #3: Section 16.2 includes a Nonce2 as supplemental evidence as
part of the passport model diagram. 

Section  16.3
The notational convention for the use of ' (i.e., prime) after timestamps is
not described.  E.g. time(HR'_v).   I think its meaning can be figured out
by the diagram.  But it might be worth making it an explicit notification
convention.  And other subsequent documents might want '' as well.


Nits:
------
Section 2: Reference Value Provider
Currently: ...Reference Values help Verifiers appraise the authenticity of
Evidence
Proposed: ...Reference Values help Verifiers appraise Evidence to determine
if only known and acceptable claims have been recorded by the Attester    

Section  3.6:
Currently: One significant problem is malware that holds a device hostage
and does not allow it to reboot to prevent updates from being applied.
This is a significant problem,
Proposed: There is a class of malware that holds a device hostage and does
not allow it to reboot to prevent updates from being applied.   This can be
a significant problem,

Section  4:
Currently: pppraisal policy
Proposed: appraisal policy

Section 11:
Currently: as well as any users the device is associated with.
Proposed: as well as potentially any users of the device.

Section  12.1
Currently: Key Material
Proposed: key material


Thanks,
Eric


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Subject: Re: [Rats] RATS Architecture comments
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Hi,

1) just to publically ack Guy's marked up RATS-Arch-07-guy-Nov19-20.docx that
   was sent privately to the authors and chairs.  Someone will turn it into
   github issues this week.

2) I heard rumours of a review from Thomas, but I don't have it in my inbox.
   Maybe it is in github only? I haven't looked yet.

3) I wish to reconvene the Design team on Dec. 1 and Dec. 8, 10am EST (14:00
   UTC) to deal with the review(s).

I am sending out a new invite and webex now.
(BTW: gather.town is also available for gatherings like design team meetings now!)


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--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [




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Subject: Re: [Rats] WGLC and IPR updates for RATs Architecture draft
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:56:33 +0000
From: mcharlesr@gmail.com
To: rats@ietf.org, prowe@mitre.org, ncamwing@cisco.com,  Nicolae Paladi <nicolae.paladi@ri.se>, lgl@island-resort.com, xinxin@iotex.io,  blueroofmusic@gmail.com, Thomas Fossati <tho@koanlogic.com>, mathias.brossard@arm.com, Ned Smith <ned.smith@intel.com>, Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>,  dthaler@microsoft.com, Peter Loscocco <palosco@tycho.nsa.gov>,  "Zhu, Bing" <bing.zhu@intel.com>, "Helble, Sarah C." <sarah.helble@jhuapl.edu>, elear@cisco.com,  mdb@juniper.net, lei.zhang@iex.ec, jodonogh@qti.qualcomm.com,  Thomas Hardjono <ietf-rats@hardjono.net>, "Joe Malcolm (jomalcol)" <jomalcol@cisco.com>,  Pete Loscocco <pete.loscocco@gmail.com>, Thomas Fossati <thomas.fossati@arm.com>,  "Guinn, Andrew L." <andrew.guinn@jhuapl.edu>, shwethab@cisco.com
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Subject: [Rats] Invitation: RATS Architecture Design Team weekly meeting time @ Weekly from 10:00 to 11:00 on Tuesday 2 times (EST) (rats@ietf.org)
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You have been invited to the following event.

Title: RATS Architecture Design Team weekly meeting time
Meeting  
link:https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m384be9d45610d8355744222daa69a8aaMeeting  
number:178 637 2629Password:ujZtcgYp733Host key:369675More ways to join
When: Weekly from 10:00 to 11:00 on Tuesday 2 times Eastern Time - Toronto
Where:  
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m384be9d45610d8355744222daa69a8aa

Joining info: Join with Google Meet
https://meet.google.com/iki-tpac-hdh

Calendar: rats@ietf.org
Who:
     * mcharlesr@gmail.com - organizer
     * prowe@mitre.org
     * ncamwing@cisco.com
     * Nicolae Paladi
     * lgl@island-resort.com
     * xinxin@iotex.io
     * blueroofmusic@gmail.com
     * Thomas Fossati
     * mathias.brossard@arm.com
     * Ned Smith
     * Henk Birkholz
     * dthaler@microsoft.com
     * Peter Loscocco
     * Zhu, Bing
     * Helble, Sarah C.
     * elear@cisco.com
     * mdb@juniper.net
     * lei.zhang@iex.ec
     * rats@ietf.org
     * jodonogh@qti.qualcomm.com
     * Thomas Hardjono
     * Joe Malcolm (jomalcol)
     * Pete Loscocco
     * Thomas Fossati
     * Guinn, Andrew L.
     * shwethab@cisco.com

Event details:  
https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=NW5jdGUxaDJuMGxwcGdqbjI2a2szMGltMXQgcmF0c0BpZXRmLm9yZw&tok=MTkjbWNoYXJsZXNyQGdtYWlsLmNvbWFjODAwYjYwYjNlNjc5NWIzMWU4ODVkZDg1ZGFmNGVkYmNhYWYyNDE&ctz=America%2FToronto&hl=en&es=0

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22" valign=3D"top"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px">Join with Google Meet</d=
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erif;font-size:13px;color:#888;white-space:nowrap;width:90px"></td><td styl=
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</span> </div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding:0 1em 10px 0;font-fa=
mily:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#888;white-space:nowrap;width:90=
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rg</div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding:0 1em 10px 0;font-family:Arial,S=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#888;white-space:nowrap;width:90px" valign=
=3D"top"><div><i style=3D"font-style:normal">Who</i></div></td><td style=3D=
"padding-bottom:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222=
" valign=3D"top"><table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0"><tr><td style=
=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#2=
22;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:C=
ourier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:=
10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"=
text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"=
attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D=
"name" class=3D"notranslate">mcharlesr@gmail.com</span><meta itemprop=3D"em=
ail" content=3D"mcharlesr@gmail.com"/></span><span itemprop=3D"organizer" i=
temscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><meta itemprop=3D"name" cont=
ent=3D"mcharlesr@gmail.com"/><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"mcharlesr@=
gmail.com"/></span><span style=3D"font-size:11px;color:#888"> - organizer</=
span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-f=
amily:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"=
text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022=
;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=
=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate"=
>prowe@mitre.org</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"prowe@mitre.org"=
/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;fo=
nt-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=
=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x=
2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sa=
ns-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemt=
ype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notransla=
te">ncamwing@cisco.com</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"ncamwing@c=
isco.com"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-righ=
t:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><=
div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monos=
pace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family=
:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px=
"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemsc=
ope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"=
notranslate">Nicolae Paladi</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"nicol=
ae.paladi@ri.se"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"paddi=
ng-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:=
10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier Ne=
w,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font=
-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-inde=
nt:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee"=
 itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" cl=
ass=3D"notranslate">lgl@island-resort.com</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" co=
ntent=3D"lgl@island-resort.com"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td=
 style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;co=
lor:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-=
right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div sty=
le=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itempr=
op=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemp=
rop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">xinxin@iotex.io</span><meta itemprop=3D"=
email" content=3D"xinxin@iotex.io"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr>=
<td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"paddi=
ng-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div =
style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span ite=
mprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span it=
emprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</span><meta i=
temprop=3D"email" content=3D"blueroofmusic@gmail.com"/></span></div></div><=
/div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px">=
<span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td=
><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13p=
x;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.o=
rg/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Thomas Fossati</sp=
an><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"tho@koanlogic.com"/></span></div></d=
iv></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sa=
ns-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1=
px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div>=
</td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size=
:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://sche=
ma.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">mathias.brossa=
rd@arm.com</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"mathias.brossard@arm.c=
om"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px=
;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div st=
yle=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">=
&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial=
,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div=
><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope it=
emtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notran=
slate">Ned Smith</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"ned.smith@intel.=
com"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10p=
x;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div s=
tyle=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace"=
>&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Aria=
l,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope i=
temtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notra=
nslate">Henk Birkholz</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"henk.birkho=
lz@sit.fraunhofer.de"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"=
padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;w=
idth:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Couri=
er New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px=
;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text=
-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"atte=
ndee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"nam=
e" class=3D"notranslate">dthaler@microsoft.com</span><meta itemprop=3D"emai=
l" content=3D"dthaler@microsoft.com"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><t=
r><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13=
px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"pad=
ding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><di=
v style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span i=
temprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span =
itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Peter Loscocco</span><meta itemprop=
=3D"email" content=3D"palosco@tycho.nsa.gov"/></span></div></div></div></td=
></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td styl=
e=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#=
222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"=
><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person=
"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Zhu, Bing</span><meta itemp=
rop=3D"email" content=3D"bing.zhu@intel.com"/></span></div></div></div></td=
></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td styl=
e=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#=
222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"=
><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person=
"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Helble, Sarah C.</span><met=
a itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"sarah.helble@jhuapl.edu"/></span></div></di=
v></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,San=
s-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1p=
x"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div><=
/td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:=
13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schem=
a.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">elear@cisco.com=
</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"elear@cisco.com"/></span></div><=
/div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,=
Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:=
-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></di=
v></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-si=
ze:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://sc=
hema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">mdb@juniper.=
net</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"mdb@juniper.net"/></span></di=
v></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Ari=
al,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-inde=
nt:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span><=
/div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http:/=
/schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">lei.zhang=
@iex.ec</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"lei.zhang@iex.ec"/></span=
></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-famil=
y:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text=
-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</s=
pan></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif=
;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"h=
ttp://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">rats=
@ietf.org</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"rats@ietf.org"/></span>=
</div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family=
:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-=
indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</sp=
an></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;=
font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"h=
ttp://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">jodo=
nogh@qti.qualcomm.com</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"jodonogh@qt=
i.qualcomm.com"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"paddin=
g-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:1=
0px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New=
,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-=
family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-inden=
t:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" =
itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" cla=
ss=3D"notranslate">Thomas Hardjono</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=
=3D"ietf-rats@hardjono.net"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td sty=
le=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:=
#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family=
:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-righ=
t:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=
=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=
=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itempro=
p=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Joe Malcolm (jomalcol)</span><meta itempro=
p=3D"email" content=3D"jomalcol@cisco.com"/></span></div></div></div></td><=
/tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-s=
ize:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td><td style=
=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#2=
22"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0">=
<span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"=
><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Pete Loscocco</span><meta it=
emprop=3D"email" content=3D"pete.loscocco@gmail.com"/></span></div></div></=
div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-se=
rif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><=
span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></div></td>=
<td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.or=
g/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Thomas Fossati</spa=
n><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"thomas.fossati@arm.com"/></span></div=
></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Aria=
l,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=3D"text-inden=
t:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x2022;</span></=
div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-=
size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://=
schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notranslate">Guinn, And=
rew L.</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"andrew.guinn@jhuapl.edu"/>=
</span></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font=
-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;width:10px"><div style=
=3D"text-indent:-1px"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier New,monospace">&#x=
2022;</span></div></td><td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sa=
ns-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222"><div style=3D"text-indent:-1px"><div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0 0 0.3em 0"><span itemprop=3D"attendee" itemscope itemt=
ype=3D"http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop=3D"name" class=3D"notransla=
te">shwethab@cisco.com</span><meta itemprop=3D"email" content=3D"shwethab@c=
isco.com"/></span></div></div></div></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><di=
v style=3D"float:right;font-weight:bold;font-size:13px"> <a href=3D"https:/=
/calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=3DVIEW&amp;eid=3DNW5jdGUxaDJuMGx=
wcGdqbjI2a2szMGltMXQgcmF0c0BpZXRmLm9yZw&amp;tok=3DMTkjbWNoYXJsZXNyQGdtYWlsL=
mNvbWFjODAwYjYwYjNlNjc5NWIzMWU4ODVkZDg1ZGFmNGVkYmNhYWYyNDE&amp;ctz=3DAmeric=
a%2FToronto&amp;hl=3Den&amp;es=3D0" style=3D"color:#20c;white-space:nowrap"=
 itemprop=3D"url">more details &raquo;</a><br></div><div style=3D"padding-b=
ottom:15px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#222;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap!important;white-space:-moz-pre-wrap!important;white-space:-pre-=
wrap!important;white-space:-o-pre-wrap!important;white-space:pre;word-wrap:=
break-word"><span><dd><dl><dd><br><dl><dt>Meeting link:</dt><dd><a href=3D"=
https://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fietf.webex.com%2Fietf%2Fj.php%=
3FMTID%3Dm384be9d45610d8355744222daa69a8aa&amp;sa=3DD&amp;ust=3D16067589934=
99000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1TDmr6RDkHr5zkZ6uOJoRm" target=3D"_blank">https://iet=
f.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm384be9d45610d8355744222daa69a8aa</a></dd><dt=
>Meeting number:</dt><dd>178 637 2629</dd><dt>Password:</dt><dd>ujZtcgYp733=
</dd><dt>Host key:</dt><dd>369675</dd></dl><br></dd></dl><br><br><h5>More w=
ays to join</h5></dd></span><meta itemprop=3D"description" content=3D"Meeti=
ng link:https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm384be9d45610d8355744222da=
a69a8aaMeeting number:178 637 2629Password:ujZtcgYp733Host key:369675More w=
ays to join"/></div></div><p style=3D"color:#222;font-size:13px;margin:0"><=
span style=3D"color:#888">Going (rats@ietf.org)?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><w=
br>All events in this series:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong><span itemprop=3D"po=
tentialaction" itemscope itemtype=3D"http://schema.org/RsvpAction"><meta it=
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ble></div></span></span>
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STATUS:CONFIRMED
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From nobody Sun Nov 29 12:18:10 2020
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, rats@ietf.org
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Subject: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Hi, sorry that I missed the RATS IETF109 meeting: I was engaged as co-chair
of ASDF at the same time.   I watched the video.

I think that the many EAT concerns are now at the point where more
conversation probably will make it worse rather than better.
It's time to move on with the EAT framework: many of the issues discussed
will become much clearer when it is used.
That's why we have "PS" vs "Internet Standard".

I found Giri's presentation interesting: I scanned through the FIDO IoT
Onboarding document, and I have no idea why FIDO needs to re-invent
(Constrained) BRSKI.   But, I'm excited about it!

The more the manufacturers understand the need for device identities, and
for a "home base" (A Registrar), the better our whole industry will be.
When MS tried to do this with the XBOX-1 a decade ago, people cried foul, b=
ut
maybe they weren't ready for this in the home yet.  We certainly need it to
be standards based, and free of stupid IPR stuff.  What will CHIP do, I won=
der.

The single reference to RFC8366 did not explain why that document did not
adopt a semantically compatible voucher format.

draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher explains how to serialize the YANG to
CBOR using draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor and draft-ietf-core-sid.
This is then signed with COSE.
{Or CMS, but that option is going away}

The result is almost *syntactically* identical to an EAT (a map of stuff
signed by COSE)!
But the semantics are a fair bit different.
Vouchers contain many things which I would not call claims, but embody
essentially a single claim concerning ownership.

draft-ietf-core-sid establishes a registry for SID values, which as
essentially map keys for CBOR.  It has been difficult to get the document to
advance, and until it did, we couldn't figure out how we'd be able to do
the IANA allocation process: hard to get an early allocation against a
registry which does not yet exist.

What we did, and what Giri could ask the EAT authors and WG to do is to
allocate some claims in the initial IANA Considerations section.
That is, until such time as the document progresses through the IESG,
the WG and the document authors essentially act as IANA.

Here is what it looks like from draft-ietf-core-sid:

section 7.5.3 (of sid-14):

   Initial entries in this registry are as follows:

   +-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
   | Entry | Size | Module name               | Document reference     |
   | Point |      |                           |                        |
   +-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
   |  1000 |  100 | ietf-coreconf             | [I-D.ietf-core-comi]   |
   |  1100 |   50 | ietf-yang-types           | [RFC6991]              |
   |  1150 |   50 | ietf-inet-types           | [RFC6991]              |
   |  1200 |   50 | iana-crypt-hash           | [RFC7317]              |
   |  1250 |   50 | ietf-netconf-acm          | [RFC8341]              |
   |  1300 |   50 | ietf-sid-file             | RFCXXXX                |
   |  1500 |  100 | ietf-interfaces           | [RFC8343]              |
   |  1600 |  100 | ietf-ip                   | [RFC8344]              |
   |  1700 |  100 | ietf-system               | [RFC7317]              |
   |  1800 |  400 | iana-if-type              | [RFC7224]              |
   |  2400 |   50 | ietf-voucher              | [RFC8366]              |
   |  2450 |   50 | ietf-constrained-voucher  | [I-D.ietf-anima-constr |
   |       |      |                           | ained-voucher]         |
   |  2500 |   50 | ietf-constrained-voucher- | [I-D.ietf-anima-constr |
   |       |      | request                   | ained-voucher]         |
   +-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+




=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti=
ng )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide





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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/oRHxBAJBz24t98wvdiJWAHSRsAo>
Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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From nobody Mon Nov 30 04:37:09 2020
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, "rats\@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:
    > In his presentation Giri pointed out that companies and industry grou=
ps
    > want to see progress on the EAT specification.

Right, and yet, the WG can't really guarantee a schedule.
If you read to end, you'll see that I propose a way in which the various
industry groups can receive official EAT claim #s from the not-yet-created
IANA registry.
That allows them to do interop while EAT specification progresses.
Whether they wish to "release" before EAT has an RFC# or not, is up to them.

    > In this specific case, Giri was talking about EAT being used by the
    > FIDO device onboard specification. But the same is actually true for =
us
    > (at Arm) and for Qualcomm, who are using EAT today.

    > A discussion about the FIDO device onboarding spec is IMHO distinct
    > from the EAT topic.

Distinct, and yet they are related because FIDO's voucher specification see=
ms
to be an EAT rather than a constrained-voucher.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti=
ng )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide


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To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/_lIwgrXbxNb64Ix0EJlLqvMaVug>
Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Hi Michael,

This thread reminds me of some of the EAT draft adoption discussions =
from May of 2019.   Some of the threads I remember from the discussion =
include:

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/7Uzkd84plkQ_LJ6oUYTQ3iwkmws/
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/KPU6WgiCGkT6mUTbf5Ga41KwSNc/
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/jBCYPK2hly554HGYTXZXa2t_AGw/

At the time, there was general agreement that where object definitions =
existed, it would be good to re-use them.  That would reduce the mapping =
needed between IANA maintained object definitions between technology =
spaces. =20

Below in your email you point to a list of YANG specifications named =
within draft-ietf-core-sid, section 7.5.3.  I think you are doing this =
for as a starting point for some object definition contents.  Am I =
interpreting this correctly?   If yes, this is exactly what I was hoping =
might happen.

Eric


> From: Michael Richardson, November 29, 2020 3:18 PM
> To: Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>; rats@ietf.org
> Subject: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications =
against Internet-
> Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
>=20
>=20
> Hi, sorry that I missed the RATS IETF109 meeting: I was engaged as =
co-chair
> of ASDF at the same time.   I watched the video.
>=20
> I think that the many EAT concerns are now at the point where more
> conversation probably will make it worse rather than better.
> It's time to move on with the EAT framework: many of the issues =
discussed will
> become much clearer when it is used.
> That's why we have "PS" vs "Internet Standard".
>=20
> I found Giri's presentation interesting: I scanned through the FIDO =
IoT
> Onboarding document, and I have no idea why FIDO needs to re-invent
> (Constrained) BRSKI.   But, I'm excited about it!
>=20
> The more the manufacturers understand the need for device identities, =
and for a
> "home base" (A Registrar), the better our whole industry will be.
> When MS tried to do this with the XBOX-1 a decade ago, people cried =
foul, but
> maybe they weren't ready for this in the home yet.  We certainly need =
it to be
> standards based, and free of stupid IPR stuff.  What will CHIP do, I =
wonder.
>=20
> The single reference to RFC8366 did not explain why that document did =
not
> adopt a semantically compatible voucher format.
>=20
> draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher explains how to serialize the =
YANG to
> CBOR using draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor and draft-ietf-core-sid.
> This is then signed with COSE.
> {Or CMS, but that option is going away}
>=20
> The result is almost *syntactically* identical to an EAT (a map of =
stuff signed by
> COSE)!
> But the semantics are a fair bit different.
> Vouchers contain many things which I would not call claims, but embody
> essentially a single claim concerning ownership.
>=20
> draft-ietf-core-sid establishes a registry for SID values, which as =
essentially map
> keys for CBOR.  It has been difficult to get the document to advance, =
and until it
> did, we couldn't figure out how we'd be able to do the IANA allocation =
process:
> hard to get an early allocation against a registry which does not yet =
exist.
>=20
> What we did, and what Giri could ask the EAT authors and WG to do is =
to
> allocate some claims in the initial IANA Considerations section.
> That is, until such time as the document progresses through the IESG, =
the WG
> and the document authors essentially act as IANA.
>=20
> Here is what it looks like from draft-ietf-core-sid:
>=20
> section 7.5.3 (of sid-14):
>=20
>    Initial entries in this registry are as follows:
>=20
>    =
+-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
>    | Entry | Size | Module name               | Document reference     =
|
>    | Point |      |                           |                        =
|
>    =
+-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
>    |  1000 |  100 | ietf-coreconf             | [I-D.ietf-core-comi]   =
|
>    |  1100 |   50 | ietf-yang-types           | [RFC6991]              =
|
>    |  1150 |   50 | ietf-inet-types           | [RFC6991]              =
|
>    |  1200 |   50 | iana-crypt-hash           | [RFC7317]              =
|
>    |  1250 |   50 | ietf-netconf-acm          | [RFC8341]              =
|
>    |  1300 |   50 | ietf-sid-file             | RFCXXXX                =
|
>    |  1500 |  100 | ietf-interfaces           | [RFC8343]              =
|
>    |  1600 |  100 | ietf-ip                   | [RFC8344]              =
|
>    |  1700 |  100 | ietf-system               | [RFC7317]              =
|
>    |  1800 |  400 | iana-if-type              | [RFC7224]              =
|
>    |  2400 |   50 | ietf-voucher              | [RFC8366]              =
|
>    |  2450 |   50 | ietf-constrained-voucher  | [I-D.ietf-anima-constr =
|
>    |       |      |                           | ained-voucher]         =
|
>    |  2500 |   50 | ietf-constrained-voucher- | [I-D.ietf-anima-constr =
|
>    |       |      | request                   | ained-voucher]         =
|
>    =
+-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T =
consulting )
>            Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
>=20
>=20
>=20


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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/NttK9XguuWHYx_Vqeg_qeqPQPiM>
Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/cdLiB15sTr3IkBSv8OGaA37aN10>
Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Yes, we agreed to use the CWT registry.  I also recall using YANG =
objects and a potential definition and range source for any new claims =
that people wanted to add.  (I.e., if it exists, let's use it.  And then =
we don't have to worry about cross-domain mapping.)   My reading of =
Michael's email is that this was the purpose of the table included in =
the bottom of this thread.

Eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 12:30 PM
> To: Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com>; Michael Richardson
> <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
> Cc: rats@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications =
against
> Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
>=20
> Eric,
>=20
> From the discussion in May 2019 we agreed that we would use the CWT =
registry
> for the claims in the EAT. This was a good conclusion.
>=20
> The example with the YANG specifications was, if I understood it, just =
an
> example.
>=20
> Ciao
> Hannes
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Eric Voit (evoit)
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 6:20 PM
> To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; Giri Mandyam
> <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
> Cc: rats@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications =
against
> Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
>=20
> Hi Michael,
>=20
> This thread reminds me of some of the EAT draft adoption discussions =
from May
> of 2019.   Some of the threads I remember from the discussion include:
>=20
> =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/7Uzkd84plkQ_LJ6oUYTQ3iwkmws/
> =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/KPU6WgiCGkT6mUTbf5Ga41KwSNc/
> =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/jBCYPK2hly554HGYTXZXa2t_AGw/
>=20
> At the time, there was general agreement that where object definitions =
existed,
> it would be good to re-use them.  That would reduce the mapping needed
> between IANA maintained object definitions between technology spaces.
>=20
> Below in your email you point to a list of YANG specifications named =
within
> draft-ietf-core-sid, section 7.5.3.  I think you are doing this for as =
a starting point
> for some object definition contents.  Am I interpreting this =
correctly?   If yes, this
> is exactly what I was hoping might happen.
>=20
> Eric
>=20
>=20
> > From: Michael Richardson, November 29, 2020 3:18 PM
> > To: Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>; rats@ietf.org
> > Subject: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications
> > against Internet- Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
> >
> >
> > Hi, sorry that I missed the RATS IETF109 meeting: I was engaged as =
co-chair
> > of ASDF at the same time.   I watched the video.
> >
> > I think that the many EAT concerns are now at the point where more
> > conversation probably will make it worse rather than better.
> > It's time to move on with the EAT framework: many of the issues
> > discussed will become much clearer when it is used.
> > That's why we have "PS" vs "Internet Standard".
> >
> > I found Giri's presentation interesting: I scanned through the FIDO
> > IoT Onboarding document, and I have no idea why FIDO needs to =
re-invent
> > (Constrained) BRSKI.   But, I'm excited about it!
> >
> > The more the manufacturers understand the need for device =
identities,
> > and for a "home base" (A Registrar), the better our whole industry =
will be.
> > When MS tried to do this with the XBOX-1 a decade ago, people cried
> > foul, but maybe they weren't ready for this in the home yet.  We
> > certainly need it to be standards based, and free of stupid IPR =
stuff.  What will
> CHIP do, I wonder.
> >
> > The single reference to RFC8366 did not explain why that document =
did
> > not adopt a semantically compatible voucher format.
> >
> > draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher explains how to serialize the
> > YANG to CBOR using draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor and =
draft-ietf-core-sid.
> > This is then signed with COSE.
> > {Or CMS, but that option is going away}
> >
> > The result is almost *syntactically* identical to an EAT (a map of
> > stuff signed by COSE)!
> > But the semantics are a fair bit different.
> > Vouchers contain many things which I would not call claims, but =
embody
> > essentially a single claim concerning ownership.
> >
> > draft-ietf-core-sid establishes a registry for SID values, which as
> > essentially map keys for CBOR.  It has been difficult to get the
> > document to advance, and until it did, we couldn't figure out how =
we'd be able
> to do the IANA allocation process:
> > hard to get an early allocation against a registry which does not =
yet exist.
> >
> > What we did, and what Giri could ask the EAT authors and WG to do is
> > to allocate some claims in the initial IANA Considerations section.
> > That is, until such time as the document progresses through the =
IESG,
> > the WG and the document authors essentially act as IANA.
> >
> > Here is what it looks like from draft-ietf-core-sid:
> >
> > section 7.5.3 (of sid-14):
> >
> >    Initial entries in this registry are as follows:
> >
> >    =
+-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
> >    | Entry | Size | Module name               | Document reference   =
  |
> >    | Point |      |                           |                      =
  |
> >    =
+-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
> >    |  1000 |  100 | ietf-coreconf             | [I-D.ietf-core-comi] =
  |
> >    |  1100 |   50 | ietf-yang-types           | [RFC6991]            =
  |
> >    |  1150 |   50 | ietf-inet-types           | [RFC6991]            =
  |
> >    |  1200 |   50 | iana-crypt-hash           | [RFC7317]            =
  |
> >    |  1250 |   50 | ietf-netconf-acm          | [RFC8341]            =
  |
> >    |  1300 |   50 | ietf-sid-file             | RFCXXXX              =
  |
> >    |  1500 |  100 | ietf-interfaces           | [RFC8343]            =
  |
> >    |  1600 |  100 | ietf-ip                   | [RFC8344]            =
  |
> >    |  1700 |  100 | ietf-system               | [RFC7317]            =
  |
> >    |  1800 |  400 | iana-if-type              | [RFC7224]            =
  |
> >    |  2400 |   50 | ietf-voucher              | [RFC8366]            =
  |
> >    |  2450 |   50 | ietf-constrained-voucher  | =
[I-D.ietf-anima-constr |
> >    |       |      |                           | ained-voucher]       =
  |
> >    |  2500 |   50 | ietf-constrained-voucher- | =
[I-D.ietf-anima-constr |
> >    |       |      | request                   | ained-voucher]       =
  |
> >
> > =
+-------+------+---------------------------+------------------------+
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T =
consulting )
> >            Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> >
> >
> >
>=20
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended =
recipient,
> please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents =
to any
> other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information =
in any
> medium. Thank you.

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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Giri Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
    > Yes, we agreed to use the CWT registry.

I didn't feel that this decision was very strong, and I thought that we went
back and forth at least twice on this, with various kinds of sub-registries
proposed.

    > I also recall using YANG objects and a potential definition and range
    > source for any new claims that people wanted to add.  (I.e., if it
    > exists, let's use it.  And then we don't have to worry about
    > cross-domain mapping.)   My reading of Michael's email is that this w=
as
    > the purpose of the table included in the bottom of this thread.

As I understood Giri's issue, he didn't think he could register production
values into the EAT registry until the document was finished.  That's what I
got from watching the video.

If we are using the CWT registry, then he can just go ahead, as the registry
already exists, and at least some of it is FCFS.

If we are not, then my text was an example of what a different WG did to de=
al
with early adopters.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti=
ng )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide





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The trouble is that I think many claims should be in the Standards =
Action range (-255 to 255).  For example, nonce, ueid, submods section, =
location, CoSWID and probably a few others should be in the standard =
space. If I were IANA I would hesitate to register these in the =
Standards Action range until the EAT document is further along.=20

It also seems poor practice to unilaterally pre-assign Standards Action =
range claims in an EAT draft and then use them in a bunch of =
implementations. Those numbers could be assigned to some one else before =
EAT is an RFC.


Here=E2=80=99s one proposal:

We put claim numbers in the EAT document from the private space CWT =
space (less than -65536). These can be the same as in my in-progress EAT =
implementation here. Hopefully other implementations do the same. Also, =
the same as the claims in the ARM PSA token draft =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-rats-psa-token-05> where =
they overlap.

When the EAT draft is standardized, new Standards Action range numbers =
will get assigned. Implementations can either continue using the old =
private space CWT numbers or they can move to the new numbers. It is =
pretty easy for a receiver of a token to accept both the old and new =
numbers. It is just one extra if statement or case in a case statement. =
The sender of a token can stick to the old private ones for a long time, =
until the receivers they care about support the new ones. There is some =
motivation to move to the new ones because of the size reduction.

Another proposal:

Register them in the Specification Required space (255 to 65535) once =
and for all. That will result in 3-byte map labels rather than 1-byte =
map labels, but there=E2=80=99s no transition.

Finally, a third proposal:

Maybe we can convince IANA to pre-register a small clear set in the =
standard space? Perhaps just nonce and UEID.

LL


> On Nov 30, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Michael Richardson =
<mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
>> Yes, we agreed to use the CWT registry.
>=20
> I didn't feel that this decision was very strong, and I thought that =
we went
> back and forth at least twice on this, with various kinds of =
sub-registries
> proposed.
>=20
>> I also recall using YANG objects and a potential definition and range
>> source for any new claims that people wanted to add.  (I.e., if it
>> exists, let's use it.  And then we don't have to worry about
>> cross-domain mapping.)   My reading of Michael's email is that this =
was
>> the purpose of the table included in the bottom of this thread.
>=20
> As I understood Giri's issue, he didn't think he could register =
production
> values into the EAT registry until the document was finished.  That's =
what I
> got from watching the video.
>=20
> If we are using the CWT registry, then he can just go ahead, as the =
registry
> already exists, and at least some of it is FCFS.
>=20
> If we are not, then my text was an example of what a different WG did =
to deal
> with early adopters.
>=20
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T =
consulting )
>           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> RATS mailing list
> RATS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats


--Apple-Mail=_3F61D083-4CFE-4261-9D32-9E0A8EB36326
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">The trouble is that I think many claims should be in the =
Standards Action range (-255 to 255). &nbsp;For example, nonce, ueid, =
submods section, location, CoSWID and probably a few others should be in =
the standard space. If I were IANA I would hesitate to register these in =
the Standards Action range until the EAT document is further =
along.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It =
also seems poor practice to unilaterally pre-assign Standards Action =
range claims in an EAT draft and then use them in a bunch of =
implementations. Those numbers could be assigned to some one else before =
EAT is an RFC.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Here=E2=80=99s one =
proposal:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">We put claim numbers in the EAT document from the private =
space CWT space (less than -65536). These can be the same as in my =
in-progress EAT implementation here. Hopefully other implementations do =
the same. Also, the same as the claims in the<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-rats-psa-token-05" =
class=3D""> ARM PSA token draft</a>&nbsp;where they overlap.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">When the EAT draft is =
standardized, new Standards Action range numbers will get assigned. =
Implementations can either continue using the old private space CWT =
numbers or they can move to the new numbers. It is pretty easy for a =
receiver of a token to accept both the old and new numbers. It is just =
one extra if statement or case in a case statement. The sender of a =
token can stick to the old private ones for a long time, until the =
receivers they care about support the new ones. There is some motivation =
to move to the new ones because of the size reduction.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></blockquote>Another proposal:<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; =
border: none; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Register them in =
the Specification Required space (255 to 65535) once and for all. That =
will result in 3-byte map labels rather than 1-byte map labels, but =
there=E2=80=99s no transition.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote>Finally, a third proposal:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; =
padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Maybe we can convince IANA to pre-register a small clear set =
in the standard space? Perhaps just nonce and =
UEID.</div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">LL</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Nov 30, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Michael Richardson &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca" =
class=3D"">mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Eric Voit (evoit) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evoit@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">evoit@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Yes, we agreed to use the CWT registry.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">I didn't feel that this decision =
was very strong, and I thought that we went<br class=3D"">back and forth =
at least twice on this, with various kinds of sub-registries<br =
class=3D"">proposed.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">I also recall using YANG objects and a =
potential definition and range<br class=3D"">source for any new claims =
that people wanted to add. &nbsp;(I.e., if it<br class=3D"">exists, =
let's use it. &nbsp;And then we don't have to worry about<br =
class=3D"">cross-domain mapping.) &nbsp;&nbsp;My reading of Michael's =
email is that this was<br class=3D"">the purpose of the table included =
in the bottom of this thread.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">As=
 I understood Giri's issue, he didn't think he could register =
production<br class=3D"">values into the EAT registry until the document =
was finished. &nbsp;That's what I<br class=3D"">got from watching the =
video.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If we are using the CWT registry, =
then he can just go ahead, as the registry<br class=3D"">already exists, =
and at least some of it is FCFS.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If we are =
not, then my text was an example of what a different WG did to deal<br =
class=3D"">with early adopters.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">--<br =
class=3D"">Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca"=
 class=3D"">mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca</a>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;. o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8=
T consulting )<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Sandelman =
Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">RATS mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:RATS@ietf.org" class=3D"">RATS@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_3F61D083-4CFE-4261-9D32-9E0A8EB36326--


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Subject: Re: [Rats] challenges of building dependant specifications against Internet-Drafts -- a way forward for EAT
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Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com> wrote:
    > The trouble is that I think many claims should be in the Standards
    > Action range (-255 to 255).  For example, nonce, ueid, submods sectio=
n,
    > location, CoSWID and probably a few others should be in the standard
    > space. If I were IANA I would hesitate to register these in the
    > Standards Action range until the EAT document is further along.

The WG can ask for Early Allocation.
It should do it immediately, so that the Expert will provided feedback imme=
diately.

    > It also seems poor practice to unilaterally pre-assign Standards Acti=
on
    > range claims in an EAT draft and then use them in a bunch of
    > implementations. Those numbers could be assigned to some one else
    > before EAT is an RFC.

You can do that if a registry you are just creating.
But, yes, you can't do that if you are using CWT.

    > Register them in the Specification Required space (255 to 65535) once
    > and for all. That will result in 3-byte map labels rather than 1-byte
    > map labels, but there=E2=80=99s no transition.

    > Finally, a third proposal:

    > Maybe we can convince IANA to pre-register a small clear set in the
    > standard space? Perhaps just nonce and UEID.

Please go read RFC7120.


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--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [


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Reviewer: Mahesh Jethanandani
Review result: On the Right Track

Status:

I am not an expert in Trusted Platform Module (TPM). If my understanding of
TPM, feel free to educate me and everyone else. This review is looking at the
draft from a YANG perspective. With that said, I have marked it as On the Right
Track, because of some of the points discussed below.

Summary:

This document defines a YANG RPC and a minimal datastore required to retrieve
attestation evidence about integrity measurements from a device following the
operational context defined in [I-D.ietf-rats-tpm-based-network-device-attest].

General:

The YANG modules uses groupings that are used only once or a grouping that has
only left e.g. tpm-name. Please collapse these grouping where they are used.

And there are groupings like TPM20-asymmetric-signing-algo and
TPM12-asymmetric-signing-algo that are not used. Please remove any unused
groupings.

The draft has problems with extraction of the modules. See message below.

 ERROR: 'draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-charra-03.txt', Line 373 - YANG module
 'ietf-tpm-remote-attestation' with no <CODE BEGINS> and not starting with
 'example-'

Extracting 'ietf-tpm-remote-attestation'
   WARNING: 'draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-charra-03.txt', Line 1917: misplaced
   <CODE ENDS> ERROR: 'draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-charra-03.txt', Line 1967 -
   YANG module 'ietf-tcg-algs' with no <CODE BEGINS> and not starting with
   'example-'

Extracting 'ietf-tcg-algs'
   WARNING: 'draft-ietf-rats-yang-tpm-charra-03.txt', Line 2824: misplaced
   <CODE ENDS>

The draft lacks examples, and therefore there is no way to validate the
model(s). Please add an example.

Is there a reason for TPM 1.2 and TPM 2.0 to not have symmetry in the model
definition? See the portion of the tree diagram below.

       |     +--rw TPM12-hash-algo?        identityref
       |     +--rw TPM12-pcrs*             pcr
       |     +--rw tpm20-pcr-bank* [TPM20-hash-algo]
       |     |  +--rw TPM20-hash-algo    identityref
       |     |  +--rw pcr-index*         tpm:pcr

Is it possible for a TPM 1.2 to call a TPM 2.0 RPC and vice-versa? I understand
there is a feature statement, but if I understand from one of the authors, a
device can conceivably support both TPM 1.2 and TPM 2.0.

Nits:

This description statement can be simplified:
        description
          "A components in this composite device that RATS which
          supports TPM operations.";

This sentence construct does not sound right:

          description
            "When there is more that one TPM, this indicates for which
            compute node this TPM services.";

s/agross/across/

Comments:

The module has plenty of errors as reported by pyang.

ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:65: warning: RFC 8407: 3.1: The IETF Trust
Copyright statement seems to be missing (see pyang --ietf-help for details).
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:144: error: keyword "must" not in canonical
order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:148: error: keyword "type" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:155: error:
keyword "default" not in canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:164: error: keyword "must" not in canonical
order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:168: error: keyword "type" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:175: error:
keyword "default" not in canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:185: error: keyword "must" not in canonical
order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:188: error: keyword "type" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:194: error:
keyword "default" not in canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:203: error: keyword "must" not in canonical
order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:206: error: keyword "type" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:214: error:
keyword "default" not in canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:599: error: keyword "mandatory" not in
canonical order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:600: error: keyword "type" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:900: error:
keyword "must" not in canonical order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section
12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:903: error: keyword "type" not in
canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:945: error: keyword "must" not in canonical
order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:948: error: keyword "type" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1178: error:
keyword "must" not in canonical order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section
12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1181: error: keyword "type" not in
canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1278: error: keyword "when" not in canonical
order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1278: error: keyword "when" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1288: error:
keyword "when" not in canonical order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section
12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1288: error: keyword "when" not in
canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1298: error: keyword "when" not in canonical
order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section 12)
ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1298: error: keyword "when" not in canonical
order (see RFC 6020, Section 12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1308: error:
keyword "when" not in canonical order, expected "type" (see RFC 6020, Section
12) ietf-tpm-remote-attestation.yang:1308: error: keyword "when" not in
canonical order (see RFC 6020, Section 12)

Having 3 pages of a tree diagram is helpful in an appendix. Maybe an abridged
diagram with explanation for the different sections of the tree diagram would
be more helpful. Suggest that --tree-depth and --tree-path options be used in
pyang to reduce the size of the tree and to break it up into smaller pieces
that can then be explained.

A terminology and acronym section would be nice for folks who are not familiar
with all the terms and acronyms used in the document. If terms are defined in
some other document, a statement to that effect would be nice.

Section 2.2.1

A reference is made to ietf-tcp-algs.yang but is missing a reference (to this
document).

Section 2.2.1.1

Is an implementation supposed to support all the types of attestation? If not,
should each of them be features?

A idnits run of the draft reveals a few issues. Please address them.

  Checking boilerplate required by RFC 5378 and the IETF Trust (see
  https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info):
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

     No issues found here.

  Checking nits according to https://www.ietf.org/id-info/1id-guidelines.txt:
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

     No issues found here.

  Checking nits according to https://www.ietf.org/id-info/checklist :
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ** The abstract seems to contain references
     ([I-D.ietf-rats-tpm-based-network-device-attest]), which it shouldn't.
     Please replace those with straight textual mentions of the documents in
     question.

  == There are 1 instance of lines with non-RFC6890-compliant IPv4 addresses
     in the document.  If these are example addresses, they should be changed.

  Miscellaneous warnings:
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  == Line 144 has weird spacing: '...version    ide...'

  == Line 148 has weird spacing: '...sh-algo    ide...'

  == Line 217 has weird spacing: '...r-index    pcr...'

  == Line 242 has weird spacing: '...-number    uin...'

  -- The document date (September 30, 2020) is 61 days in the past.  Is this
     intentional?

  Checking references for intended status: Proposed Standard
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

     (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative references
     to lower-maturity documents in RFCs)

  == Missing Reference: 'TPM20-hash-algo' is mentioned on line 147, but not
     defined

  ** Downref: Normative reference to an Informational draft:
     draft-birkholz-rats-reference-interaction-model (ref.
     'I-D.birkholz-rats-reference-interaction-model')

  -- Unexpected draft version: The latest known version of
     draft-ietf-netconf-keystore is -19, but you're referring to -20.

  == Outdated reference: A later version (-07) exists of
     draft-ietf-rats-architecture-06

  ** Downref: Normative reference to an Informational draft:
     draft-ietf-rats-architecture (ref. 'I-D.ietf-rats-architecture')

  == Outdated reference: A later version (-05) exists of
     draft-ietf-rats-tpm-based-network-device-attest-04

  ** Downref: Normative reference to an Informational draft:
     draft-ietf-rats-tpm-based-network-device-attest (ref.
     'I-D.ietf-rats-tpm-based-network-device-attest')

  -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: ref. 'TCG-Algos'

  -- Obsolete informational reference (is this intentional?): RFC 5246
     (Obsoleted by RFC 8446)

     Summary: 4 errors (**), 0 flaws (~~), 8 warnings (==), 4 comments (--).



