From mailman-owner@ietf.org Sat Apr 1 05:15:29 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07860 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 05:15:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA27810 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 05:13:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 05:13:10 -0500 (EST) From: mailman-owner@ietf.org Message-Id: <200004011013.FAA27810@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder To: raven-web-archive@ns.ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes Precedence: bulk X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, raven-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@ietf.org. Thanks! Passwords for raven-web-archive@www.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- raven@ietf.org aUvt http://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/raven/raven-web-archive@www.ietf.org From raven-admin@ietf.org Sat Apr 1 12:08:31 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10346 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:08:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06217; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06188 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from green.gruene.de (www.gruene.de [193.97.251.133]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10340 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:02:57 -0500 (EST) To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Message-Id: Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:48:07 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:48:07 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06066; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200004011700.MAA06066@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg (marc.mausch@gruene.de) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:49:40 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:49:40 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07858; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003311700.MAA07858@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:48:51 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:48:50 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15914; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003301700.MAA15914@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de) 2. Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) (P.J. Ponder) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: raven@ietf.org Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is the US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition and to protect the innocent investing public.) http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 SEC Creating Web Surveillance 03:55EST By MARCY GORDON AP Business Writer 03/29/00 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated surveillance system to search Web sites and message boards for investment fraud. But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the Internet. The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's largest accounting and consulting firms. < . . . . > -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Ted Gavin To: raven@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: [snip...] >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance >03:55EST > >By MARCY GORDON >AP Business Writer >03/29/00 > >[snip...] > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's >largest accounting and consulting firms. It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical practices" in its Independent Auditing function. Ted -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:04:27 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: raven@ietf.org Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) Can someone who speaks German contact this person and let him or her know that their auto-responder is copying the list itself (raven@ietf.org) with all of it's outgoing messages? I tried, and got back an auto-reply in German.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 From: marc.mausch@gruene.de To: ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (unverified [199.44.37.210]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 Received: from localhost (ponder@localhost) by fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA28027 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:04 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: marc.mausch@gruene.de Subject: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Marc, you appear to have the auto-reply function copying the Raven list itself. If you want to create a digest, that is good, but do you think it should be automatically sent to all the subscribers, whether they have asked for it or not? -- pj On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 marc.mausch@gruene.de wrote: > Hallo, >=20 > dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. >=20 > Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich > die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. >=20 > Mit vielen Gr=FC=DFen, >=20 > Marc Mausch >=20 >=20 > Your message reads: >=20 > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.grue= ne.de > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for= ; > Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > =09by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; > =09Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > From: raven-admin@ietf.org > Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> > Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > Reply-to: raven@ietf.org > X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 > Mime-version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain > To: raven@ietf.org > Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org > Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org > X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: bulk > List-Id: Raven Discussion List > X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org >=20 >=20 > Send raven mailing list submissions to > =09raven@ietf.org >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > =09http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > =09raven-request@ietf.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > =09raven-admin@ietf.org >=20 > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of raven digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) > 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) > From: "P.J. Ponder" > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system >=20 > (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is th= e > US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock > trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition > and to protect the innocent investing public.) >=20 >=20 > http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D16= 42499 >=20 > SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > 03:55EST=20 >=20 > By MARCY GORDON > AP Business Writer=20 > 03/29/00=20 >=20 > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for > phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated > surveillance system to search Web sites and message > boards for investment fraud.=20 >=20 > But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because > the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system > might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the > Internet.=20 >=20 > The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 >=20 > < . . . . > >=20 >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > Message: 2 > From: Ted Gavin > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 > Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. > Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net >=20 > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >=20 > [snip...] >=20 > >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D1= 642499 > > > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > >03:55EST=20 > > > >By MARCY GORDON > >AP Business Writer=20 > >03/29/00=20 > > > >[snip...] > > > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > >largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 >=20 > It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a > firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical > practices" in its Independent Auditing function. >=20 > Ted >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven >=20 >=20 > End of raven Digest >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven >=20 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest --__--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Sun Apr 2 12:12:23 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25099 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19004; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18976 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from green.gruene.de (www.gruene.de [193.97.251.133]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25069 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:04:04 -0400 (EDT) To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Message-Id: Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:49:16 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #172 - 1 msg Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:49:15 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18868; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200004021600.MAA18868@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #172 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg (marc.mausch@gruene.de) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:48:07 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:48:07 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06066; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200004011700.MAA06066@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg (marc.mausch@gruene.de) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:49:40 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:49:40 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07858; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003311700.MAA07858@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:48:51 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:48:50 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15914; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003301700.MAA15914@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de) 2. Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) (P.J. Ponder) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: raven@ietf.org Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is the US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition and to protect the innocent investing public.) http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 SEC Creating Web Surveillance 03:55EST By MARCY GORDON AP Business Writer 03/29/00 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated surveillance system to search Web sites and message boards for investment fraud. But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the Internet. The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's largest accounting and consulting firms. < . . . . > -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Ted Gavin To: raven@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: [snip...] >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance >03:55EST > >By MARCY GORDON >AP Business Writer >03/29/00 > >[snip...] > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's >largest accounting and consulting firms. It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical practices" in its Independent Auditing function. Ted -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:04:27 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: raven@ietf.org Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) Can someone who speaks German contact this person and let him or her know that their auto-responder is copying the list itself (raven@ietf.org) with all of it's outgoing messages? I tried, and got back an auto-reply in German.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 From: marc.mausch@gruene.de To: ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (unverified [199.44.37.210]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 Received: from localhost (ponder@localhost) by fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA28027 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:04 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: marc.mausch@gruene.de Subject: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Marc, you appear to have the auto-reply function copying the Raven list itself. If you want to create a digest, that is good, but do you think it should be automatically sent to all the subscribers, whether they have asked for it or not? -- pj On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 marc.mausch@gruene.de wrote: > Hallo, >=20 > dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. >=20 > Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich > die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. >=20 > Mit vielen Gr=FC=DFen, >=20 > Marc Mausch >=20 >=20 > Your message reads: >=20 > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.grue= ne.de > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for= ; > Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > =09by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; > =09Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > From: raven-admin@ietf.org > Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> > Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > Reply-to: raven@ietf.org > X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 > Mime-version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain > To: raven@ietf.org > Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org > Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org > X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: bulk > List-Id: Raven Discussion List > X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org >=20 >=20 > Send raven mailing list submissions to > =09raven@ietf.org >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > =09http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > =09raven-request@ietf.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > =09raven-admin@ietf.org >=20 > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of raven digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) > 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) > From: "P.J. Ponder" > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system >=20 > (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is th= e > US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock > trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition > and to protect the innocent investing public.) >=20 >=20 > http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D16= 42499 >=20 > SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > 03:55EST=20 >=20 > By MARCY GORDON > AP Business Writer=20 > 03/29/00=20 >=20 > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for > phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated > surveillance system to search Web sites and message > boards for investment fraud.=20 >=20 > But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because > the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system > might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the > Internet.=20 >=20 > The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 >=20 > < . . . . > >=20 >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > Message: 2 > From: Ted Gavin > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 > Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. > Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net >=20 > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >=20 > [snip...] >=20 > >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D1= 642499 > > > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > >03:55EST=20 > > > >By MARCY GORDON > >AP Business Writer=20 > >03/29/00=20 > > > >[snip...] > > > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > >largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 >=20 > It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a > firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical > practices" in its Independent Auditing function. >=20 > Ted >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven >=20 >=20 > End of raven Digest >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven >=20 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest --__--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Mon Apr 3 12:16:42 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19447 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09379; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:04:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09350 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from green.gruene.de (www.gruene.de [193.97.251.133]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19290 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:07:09 -0400 (EDT) To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Message-Id: Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:52:21 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #173 - 1 msg Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:52:21 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05695; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200004031600.MAA05695@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #173 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #172 - 1 msg (marc.mausch@gruene.de) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:49:16 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #172 - 1 msg Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:49:15 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18868; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200004021600.MAA18868@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #172 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg (marc.mausch@gruene.de) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:48:07 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:48:07 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06066; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200004011700.MAA06066@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #171 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg (marc.mausch@gruene.de) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:49:40 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:49:40 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07858; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003311700.MAA07858@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #170 - 1 msg Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:48:51 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:48:50 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15914; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003301700.MAA15914@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #169 - 2 msgs Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de) 2. Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) (P.J. Ponder) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: raven@ietf.org From: marc.mausch@gruene.de Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) From: raven-admin@ietf.org Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Reply-to: raven@ietf.org X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: raven@ietf.org Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Send raven mailing list submissions to raven@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to raven-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at raven-admin@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of raven digest..." Today's Topics: 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: raven@ietf.org Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is the US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition and to protect the innocent investing public.) http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 SEC Creating Web Surveillance 03:55EST By MARCY GORDON AP Business Writer 03/29/00 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated surveillance system to search Web sites and message boards for investment fraud. But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the Internet. The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's largest accounting and consulting firms. < . . . . > -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Ted Gavin To: raven@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: [snip...] >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance >03:55EST > >By MARCY GORDON >AP Business Writer >03/29/00 > >[snip...] > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's >largest accounting and consulting firms. It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical practices" in its Independent Auditing function. Ted -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:04:27 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: raven@ietf.org Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) Can someone who speaks German contact this person and let him or her know that their auto-responder is copying the list itself (raven@ietf.org) with all of it's outgoing messages? I tried, and got back an auto-reply in German.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 From: marc.mausch@gruene.de To: ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs Hallo, dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. Mit vielen Grüßen, Marc Mausch Your message reads: Received: from fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (unverified [199.44.37.210]) by green.gruene.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 Received: from localhost (ponder@localhost) by fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA28027 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:04 -0500 (EST) From: "P.J. Ponder" To: marc.mausch@gruene.de Subject: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Marc, you appear to have the auto-reply function copying the Raven list itself. If you want to create a digest, that is good, but do you think it should be automatically sent to all the subscribers, whether they have asked for it or not? -- pj On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 marc.mausch@gruene.de wrote: > Hallo, >=20 > dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. >=20 > Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich > die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. >=20 > Mit vielen Gr=FC=DFen, >=20 > Marc Mausch >=20 >=20 > Your message reads: >=20 > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.grue= ne.de > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for= ; > Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > =09by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; > =09Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > From: raven-admin@ietf.org > Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> > Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > Reply-to: raven@ietf.org > X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 > Mime-version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain > To: raven@ietf.org > Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org > Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org > X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: bulk > List-Id: Raven Discussion List > X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org >=20 >=20 > Send raven mailing list submissions to > =09raven@ietf.org >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > =09http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > =09raven-request@ietf.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > =09raven-admin@ietf.org >=20 > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of raven digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) > 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) > From: "P.J. Ponder" > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system >=20 > (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is th= e > US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock > trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition > and to protect the innocent investing public.) >=20 >=20 > http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D16= 42499 >=20 > SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > 03:55EST=20 >=20 > By MARCY GORDON > AP Business Writer=20 > 03/29/00=20 >=20 > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for > phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated > surveillance system to search Web sites and message > boards for investment fraud.=20 >=20 > But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because > the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system > might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the > Internet.=20 >=20 > The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 >=20 > < . . . . > >=20 >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > Message: 2 > From: Ted Gavin > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 > Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. > Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net >=20 > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >=20 > [snip...] >=20 > >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D1= 642499 > > > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > >03:55EST=20 > > > >By MARCY GORDON > >AP Business Writer=20 > >03/29/00=20 > > > >[snip...] > > > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > >largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 >=20 > It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a > firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical > practices" in its Independent Auditing function. >=20 > Ted >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- __--__-- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven >=20 >=20 > End of raven Digest >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven >=20 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest --__--__-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven End of raven Digest _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Thu Apr 6 18:54:11 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA16350 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA11922; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA11894 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA16084 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fipr.demon.co.uk ([212.228.119.220] helo=DIRECTOR) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12dKvI-0008gc-0W; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:38:48 +0100 From: "Caspar Bowden" To: , "Ukcrypto \(E-mail\)" , Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:40:37 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01bfa019$217733f0$0100a8c0@DIRECTOR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Raven] 'DIGITAL STORM' BREWS AT FBI - Washington Post Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'DIGITAL STORM' BREWS AT FBI Issue: Privacy The FBI is seeking $75 million in budget appropriations to update its court-sanctioned telephone and cellular phone data collection systems. One is called "Digital Storm" and allows agents to monitor telephone calls and analyze computerized recordings. The FBI is also looking to create a system that would provide the "foundation for an up-to-date flexible digital collection infrastructure" for wiretaps and an "enterprise database" that would enable agents to analyze and share a huge amount of data via a secure World Wide Web network. FBI officials said the bureau's information technology systems are aging and need to be updated to keep pace with criminal activities that occur both on the Internet and offline. But civil liberties activists, legislators and legal specialists claim that the bureau's proposal could erode constitutional protections that limit government searches. For example, the FBI estimates that the technological advances would so improve the ability to conduct wiretaps that the number of approved taps would increase by 300 percent over the next decade. Deputy Assistant Director Edward Allen played down that number. [SOURCE: Washington Post (A1), AUTHOR: Robert O'Harrow Jr.] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20426-2000Apr5.html) _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Sat Apr 8 20:56:26 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19013 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17365; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17337 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newdev.harvard.edu (newdev.eecs.harvard.edu [140.247.60.212]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18927 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from sob@localhost) by newdev.harvard.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03147 for raven@ietf.org; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:50:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Bradner Message-Id: <200004090050.UAA03147@newdev.harvard.edu> To: raven@ietf.org Subject: [Raven] status of the raven mailing list Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org On March 9th the IESG approved "IETF Policy on Wiretapping" (draft-iab-raven-01.txt) for publication as a RFC. It is now on the RFC Editor's publication queue. This approval completed the task for which the raven mailing list was created and the list will be closed to new postings when the RFC is published. The archive will continue to be available for some time to come. Scott Bradner _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Tue Apr 11 15:52:09 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18828 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA06905; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA06876 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from watervalley.net (mail.WaterValley.Net [216.220.140.3]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA18547 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.110.21.142] (HELO greendragon.com) by watervalley.net (Stalker SMTP Server 1.8b8) with ESMTP id S.0005553634 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 14:41:12 -0500 Message-ID: <38F37FC5.B528F9C8@greendragon.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:41:04 -0400 From: William Allen Simpson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: raven@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Raven] [FYI] NL: Intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wasn't that a Dutch national that said this would never happen in a civilized country??? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [FYI] NL: Intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:15:30 +0100 From: "Axel H Horns" http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/6731/1.html Echelon in Holland Jelle van Buuren 11.04.2000 Dutch intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications The Dutch Intelligence Agency BVD is getting new powers. Among other things, the powers to intercept communications will be extended. The agency is authorized, if the government gets its way, to intercept satellite communications at random and search the intercepted traffic by keywords. Also, the BVD gets a new intelligence task: the gathering of economical information. Holland goes Echelon, it seems. The new 'Act on the intelligence and security agencies' (WIV), which is currently debated by Dutch parliament, gives the powers of the BVD a new legal basis. Actually, it means mainly the extension of investigative powers. In each amendment on the original proposal, new powers are given. For instance, in the first draft of the new Act, the BVD got the power to intercept, record and listen into telecommunications. In the latest amendment, from the beginning of this year, the power to 'receive' telecommunications was added. This means the BVD is authorized to directly pluck telecommunications, for instance GSM-traffic, out of the air. In this way, the BVD is no longer dependent on the willingness of telcom operators to intercept traffic, but can create for instance their own parallel network of receivers to intercept all GSM-traffic. Also, this prevents providers from 'leaking' about the fine work the BVD is doing in this area. [...] Encryption The new powers of the BVD are also interesting because some articles are related to cryptography and information technology. The BVD is authorized to break into homes and offices to bug keyboards. Besides that, the BVD is authorized to break into computers and steal, alter or delete information that is stored in computers. In other words, the BVD is allowed to hack. In this way, the intelligence agency can steal data from computers, manipulate software, corrupt passwords or install a Trojan Horse, so access is secured and cryptography can be bypassed. Cryptography is a topic of special interest for the BVD. In the draft Act, the power to undo encryption is being extended. In the first proposal the BVD got the authority to decrypt encrypted communication and data "by technical means". In the latest amendment this is extended to decryption "by all possible means". According to the explanatory note, "practice has shown there are other ways than just technical means to decrypt encrypted communications." This cryptic description seems to be directed at infiltrators who diddle out passwords, or look over the shoulder when messages are encrypted, or intelligence teams breaking into homes and offices in search of the little piece of paper the password is written on. The articles on the interception of telecommunication also contain remarks on cryptography. Encrypted messages may be kept in storage as long as is necessary for the BVD to decrypt them. The explanatory note says: "Where telecommunication is concerned, of which the encryption is not undone, and where the mere fact that cryptography has been used makes this communication interesting for the agency, it is desirable to save this communication to the moment the capacity exists or is being developed to decrypt the communication." So the use of a perfectly normal technique to protect ones privacy, trade secrets or sensitive political information, is in the eyes of the Dutch government a highly suspected act. The draft Act also introduces the obligation for "every one" the authorities believes has acces to the keys, to cooperate with the intelligence agency in decrypting the encryption. Refusal is punishable with a sentence of two years. The Dutch parliament has asked the government if this means that suspects also are obliged to hand over the keys. The answer is not available yet. But if the governement confirms this obligation also applies to suspects, this will be a clear violation of the fundamental human rights, as stated for instance in the Treaty on the protection of the Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. It means an obligation to cooperate on your own condemniation and the reversal of the burden of proof. Copyright © 1996-2000 All Rights Reserved. Alle Rechte vorbehalten Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Tue Apr 11 16:13:41 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA19326 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07461; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07430 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpf.casema.net (smtpf.casema.net [195.96.96.173]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id QAA19208 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200004112007.QAA19208@ietf.org> Received: (qmail 2257 invoked by uid 0); 11 Apr 2000 20:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO system) (195.96.120.149) by smtpf.casema.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2000 20:07:48 -0000 From: "chefren" To: raven@ietf.org Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:07:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Raven] [FYI] NL: Intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications Priority: normal In-reply-to: <38F37FC5.B528F9C8@greendragon.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 11 Apr 00, at 15:41, William Allen Simpson forwarded: > The new powers of the BVD are also interesting because some articles > are related to cryptography and information technology. The BVD is > authorized to break into homes and offices to bug keyboards. Besides > that, the BVD is authorized to break into computers and steal, alter > or delete information that is stored in computers. In other words, > the BVD is allowed to hack. In this way, the intelligence agency can > steal data from computers, manipulate software, corrupt passwords or > install a Trojan Horse, so access is secured and cryptography can be > bypassed. I hope nobody was shocked by the article, that's inevitably what you get if Encryption is free and law enforcement needs means. It is a legalised electronic form of a "razzia" and should be avoided as much as possible in a decent society in my opinion. (Nothing new in the article, the BVD, our internal intelligence agency that only may report to the heads of goverment, tapped already and all kind of things. Lots of things are now more and more specified in laws. Microphones in homes were allowed for use by the police some months ago, the use of encryption by criminals certainly made it easier to pass that law.) I know I'm extremely bad understood by most of you but still think we need the following: Communication providers should be demanded by law to encrypt the data of their customers and the customers themselves should not be allowed to encrypt. The police shouldn't be allowed to enter homes for placing bugs without proof that the suspected are using encryption to hide their communication. +++chefren p.s. There is still some time to reject that everything but new pointless American-macho RFC... _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Wed Apr 12 11:02:33 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23516 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25143; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25116 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.uunet.ca (root@mail2.uunet.ca [142.77.1.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23184 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from genesis (cust81.tnt2.dial.tor2.uunet.ca [209.47.187.81]) by mail2.uunet.ca with SMTP id <599541-16970>; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:53:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01bfa48e$ae5ceca0$d964c8c7@genesis> From: "Richard Payne" To: References: <200004112007.QAA19208@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Raven] [FYI] NL: Intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:52:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I note that even ch*fr*n does not care to defend random interception of satellite communications or gathering of economic intelligence, neither of which can reasonably be linked to a legitimate law enforcement purpose. This kind of random snooping is the best possible argument for the average user to adopt strong end-to-end crypto. A reverse onus of proof (two years for not being able to prove that you _don't_ have a key seems to follow) is also very troubling, at least to those of us who are used to "innocent until proven guilty". Since this is reported as being currently under debate in the Dutch parliament, does anyone have information on how the debate is going, and when this might become law? Richard Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: chefren To: Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Raven] [FYI] NL: Intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications > On 11 Apr 00, at 15:41, William Allen Simpson forwarded: > > > The new powers of the BVD are also interesting because some articles > > are related to cryptography and information technology. The BVD is > > authorized to break into homes and offices to bug keyboards. Besides > > that, the BVD is authorized to break into computers and steal, alter > > or delete information that is stored in computers. In other words, > > the BVD is allowed to hack. In this way, the intelligence agency can > > steal data from computers, manipulate software, corrupt passwords or > > install a Trojan Horse, so access is secured and cryptography can be > > bypassed. > > > > I hope nobody was shocked by the article, that's inevitably > what you get if Encryption is free and law enforcement > needs means. It is a legalised electronic form of a > "razzia" and should be avoided as much as possible in a > decent society in my opinion. > > (Nothing new in the article, the BVD, our internal > intelligence agency that only may report to the heads of > goverment, tapped already and all kind of things. Lots of > things are now more and more specified in laws. Microphones > in homes were allowed for use by the police some months > ago, the use of encryption by criminals certainly made it > easier to pass that law.) > > > > I know I'm extremely bad understood by most of you but > still think we need the following: > > Communication providers should be demanded by law to > encrypt the data of their customers and the customers > themselves should not be allowed to encrypt. The police > shouldn't be allowed to enter homes for placing bugs > without proof that the suspected are using encryption to > hide their communication. > > +++chefren > > p.s. There is still some time to reject that > everything but new pointless American-macho RFC... > > > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Wed Apr 12 12:35:08 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26797 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27677; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27644 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpe.casema.net (smtpe.casema.net [195.96.96.172]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA26300 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200004121628.MAA26300@ietf.org> Received: (qmail 22215 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 16:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO system) (195.96.120.90) by smtpe.casema.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 16:28:50 -0000 From: "chefren" To: raven@ietf.org Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:28:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Raven] [FYI] NL: Intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000b01bfa48e$ae5ceca0$d964c8c7@genesis> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 12 Apr 00, at 10:52, Richard Payne wrote: > I note that even ch*fr*n does not care to defend random interception of > satellite communications or gathering of economic intelligence, neither of > which can reasonably be linked to a legitimate law enforcement purpose. This > kind of random snooping is the best possible argument for the average user > to adopt strong end-to-end crypto. It isn't if you look a little bit further. If encryption is free for end-users it's reasonable that law enforcement may place bugs to circumvent the real-world "no places to hide for the law" problem. So communication providers, the ones that keep up satelites for the end users should crypt and law enforcement should stay out of homes as long as use of strong encryption isn't proved. > A reverse onus of proof (two years for not being able to prove that you > _don't_ have a key seems to follow) is also very troubling, at least to > those of us who are used to "innocent until proven guilty". All far too difficult and tricky. If encryption is regulated for end-users and provided by communication providers because law demands it, law enforcement can ask communication providers to decode messages and there are no further problems. Unless an end user do uses encryption, in that case law enforcement should be able to place bugs in homes. > Since this is reported as being currently under debate in the Dutch > parliament, does anyone have information on how the debate is going, and > when this might become law? There is little or maybe even no public debate as far as I know. I will post a report if I hear anything about it. However, it's all in line with the laws that appeared in the last few years. +++chefren _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Wed Apr 12 13:37:32 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29172 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28509; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28480 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yorktown.paranet.com (kirkwood.paranet.com [199.164.131.35]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28382 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SPR90829 (dhcp-65-200.phx.paranet.com [172.16.65.200]) by yorktown.paranet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20126 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:19:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Christian Price" To: Subject: RE: [Raven] [FYI] NL: Intelligence agency authorized to scan satellite communications Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:22:33 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bfa4a3$b09d8140$c84110ac@paranet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <200004112007.QAA19208@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This still seems to me to be technical folly. If the data are not encrypted until they reach the provider, then the data travel unencrypted over open lines until they reach the provider. This would seem to defeat the purpose of encrypting the data at all. --Christian > Communication providers should be demanded by law to > encrypt the data of their customers and the customers > themselves should not be allowed to encrypt. The police > shouldn't be allowed to enter homes for placing bugs > without proof that the suspected are using encryption to > hide their communication. > > +++chefren > > p.s. There is still some time to reject that > everything but new pointless American-macho RFC... > > > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven From raven-admin@ietf.org Fri Apr 28 14:17:03 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08023 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:17:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08135; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08106 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.netic.de (mail.s.netic.de [212.9.160.11]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA07701 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.netic.de (Smail3.2.0.106/mail.s.netic.de) via LF.net GmbH Internet Services via remoteip 212.9.162.118 via remotehost gruene.de with esmtp for odin.ietf.org id m12lFAr-001X3OC; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:07:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3909B49C.A656A3D5@gruene.de> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:56:13 +0200 From: Marc Mausch Organization: Buendnis 90/Die Gruenen BaWue X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: raven@ietf.org References: <200003301700.MAA15914@optimus.ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FA0E2135A897EDF87D28401A" Subject: [Raven] Off topic: Apologies: Vacation spaming Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Raven Discussion List X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org --------------FA0E2135A897EDF87D28401A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > You need to be more careful with your holiday email forwarding. > It has caused annoyance to many many people for weeks now. > To all those subscribers who definitly do know now that I was on holiday: I am really very sorry for that. I didn't exclude that list from the auto-reply. [On the other hand: In my opinion, a reply-to should never be a whole list. My program simply replied to that address which was it told to be the sender. ] Forgive! Best regards, Marc Mausch raven-admin@ietf.org wrote: > Send raven mailing list submissions to > raven@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > raven-request@ietf.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > raven-admin@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of raven digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de) > 2. Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) (P.J. Ponder) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > To: raven@ietf.org > From: marc.mausch@gruene.de > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 > Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > > Hallo, > > dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. > > Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich > die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. > > Mit vielen Grüßen, > > Marc Mausch > > Your message reads: > > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; > Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; > Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > From: raven-admin@ietf.org > Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> > Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > Reply-to: raven@ietf.org > X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 > Mime-version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain > To: raven@ietf.org > Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org > Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org > X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: bulk > List-Id: Raven Discussion List > X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org > > Send raven mailing list submissions to > raven@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > raven-request@ietf.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > raven-admin@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of raven digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) > 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) > From: "P.J. Ponder" > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system > > (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is the > US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock > trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition > and to protect the innocent investing public.) > > http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 > > SEC Creating Web Surveillance > 03:55EST > > By MARCY GORDON > AP Business Writer > 03/29/00 > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for > phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated > surveillance system to search Web sites and message > boards for investment fraud. > > But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because > the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system > might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the > Internet. > > The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > largest accounting and consulting firms. > > < . . . . > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: Ted Gavin > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 > Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. > Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net > > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: > > [snip...] > > >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499 > > > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance > >03:55EST > > > >By MARCY GORDON > >AP Business Writer > >03/29/00 > > > >[snip...] > > > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > >largest accounting and consulting firms. > > It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a > firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical > practices" in its Independent Auditing function. > > Ted > > -- __--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > > End of raven Digest > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:04:27 -0500 (EST) > From: "P.J. Ponder" > To: raven@ietf.org > Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) > > Can someone who speaks German contact this person and let him or her know > that their auto-responder is copying the list itself (raven@ietf.org) with > all of it's outgoing messages? > > I tried, and got back an auto-reply in German.... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 > From: marc.mausch@gruene.de > To: ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us > Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > > Hallo, > > dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. > > Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich > die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. > > Mit vielen Grüßen, > > Marc Mausch > > Your message reads: > > Received: from fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (unverified [199.44.37.210]) by green.gruene.de > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for ; > Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200 > Received: from localhost (ponder@localhost) by fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA28027 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:05 -0500 (EST) > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:04 -0500 (EST) > From: "P.J. Ponder" > To: marc.mausch@gruene.de > Subject: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > In-Reply-To: > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE > > Marc, > you appear to have the auto-reply function copying the Raven list itself. > If you want to create a digest, that is good, but do you think it should > be automatically sent to all the subscribers, whether they have asked for > it or not? > -- > pj > > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 marc.mausch@gruene.de wrote: > > > Hallo, > >=20 > > dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort. > >=20 > > Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich > > die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten. > >=20 > > Mit vielen Gr=FC=DFen, > >=20 > > Marc Mausch > >=20 > >=20 > > Your message reads: > >=20 > > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.grue= > ne.de > > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id for= > ; > > Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200 > > Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > =09by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904; > > =09Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) > > From: raven-admin@ietf.org > > Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org> > > Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs > > Reply-to: raven@ietf.org > > X-mailer: Mailman v1.0 > > Mime-version: 1.0 > > Content-type: text/plain > > To: raven@ietf.org > > Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org > > Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org > > X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 > > Precedence: bulk > > List-Id: Raven Discussion List > > X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org > >=20 > >=20 > > Send raven mailing list submissions to > > =09raven@ietf.org > >=20 > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > > =09http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > =09raven-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > =09raven-admin@ietf.org > >=20 > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > > "Re: Contents of raven digest..." > >=20 > >=20 > > Today's Topics: > >=20 > > 1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder) > > 2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin) > >=20 > > -- __--__-- > >=20 > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST) > > From: "P.J. Ponder" > > To: raven@ietf.org > > Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system > >=20 > > (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is th= > e > > US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock > > trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition > > and to protect the innocent investing public.) > >=20 > >=20 > > http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D16= > 42499 > >=20 > > SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > > 03:55EST=20 > >=20 > > By MARCY GORDON > > AP Business Writer=20 > > 03/29/00=20 > >=20 > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for > > phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated > > surveillance system to search Web sites and message > > boards for investment fraud.=20 > >=20 > > But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because > > the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system > > might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the > > Internet.=20 > >=20 > > The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > > equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > > planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > > privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > > largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 > >=20 > > < . . . . > > >=20 > >=20 > > -- __--__-- > >=20 > > Message: 2 > > From: Ted Gavin > > To: raven@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500 > > Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc. > > Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net > >=20 > > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote: > >=20 > > [snip...] > >=20 > > >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D1= > 642499 > > > > > >SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20 > > >03:55EST=20 > > > > > >By MARCY GORDON > > >AP Business Writer=20 > > >03/29/00=20 > > > > > >[snip...] > > > > > >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is > > >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of > > >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of > > >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's > > >largest accounting and consulting firms.=20 > >=20 > > It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a > > firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical > > practices" in its Independent Auditing function. > >=20 > > Ted > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -- __--__-- > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > raven mailing list > > raven@ietf.org > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > >=20 > >=20 > > End of raven Digest > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > raven mailing list > > raven@ietf.org > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > >=20 > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > raven mailing list > raven@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven > > End of raven Digest -- Marc Mausch Buendnis 90/Die Gruenen Baden-Wuerttemberg Landesvorstand http://www.marcmausch.de/ marc.mausch@gruene.de --------------FA0E2135A897EDF87D28401A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
  
  You need to be more careful with your holiday email forwarding. 
  It has caused annoyance to many many people for weeks now.

To all those subscribers who definitly do know now that I was on holiday:
I am really very sorry for that. I didn't exclude that list from the auto-reply.

[On the other hand: In my opinion, a reply-to should never be a whole list.
My program simply replied to that address which was it told to be the sender. ]

Forgive!

Best regards,

Marc Mausch

raven-admin@ietf.org wrote:

Send raven mailing list submissions to
        raven@ietf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
        http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        raven-request@ietf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
        raven-admin@ietf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of raven digest..."

Today's Topics:

  1. Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (marc.mausch@gruene.de)
  2. Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd) (P.J. Ponder)

--__--__--

Message: 1
To: raven@ietf.org
From: marc.mausch@gruene.de
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200
Subject: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs

Hallo,

dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort.

Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich
die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten.

Mit vielen Grüßen,

Marc Mausch

Your message reads:

Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.gruene.de
 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id <B0000692604@green.gruene.de> for <marc.mausch@gruene.de>;
 Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
        by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904;
        Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST)
From: raven-admin@ietf.org
Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org>
Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs
Reply-to: raven@ietf.org
X-mailer: Mailman v1.0
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
To: raven@ietf.org
Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 1.0
Precedence: bulk
List-Id: Raven Discussion List <raven.ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org

Send raven mailing list submissions to
        raven@ietf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
        http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        raven-request@ietf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
        raven-admin@ietf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of raven digest..."

Today's Topics:

  1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder)
  2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin)

-- __--__--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST)
From: "P.J. Ponder" <ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: raven@ietf.org
Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system

(for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is the
US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock
trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition
and to protect the innocent investing public.)

http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499

SEC Creating Web Surveillance
03:55EST

By MARCY GORDON
AP Business Writer
03/29/00

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for
phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated
surveillance system to search Web sites and message
boards for investment fraud.

But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because
the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system
might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the
Internet.

The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is
equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of
planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of
privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's
largest accounting and consulting firms.

< . . . . >

-- __--__--

Message: 2
From: Ted Gavin <tedgavin@bellatlantic.net>
To: raven@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500
Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc.
Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

[snip...]

>http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=980&ern=y&ei=1642499
>
>SEC Creating Web Surveillance
>03:55EST
>
>By MARCY GORDON
>AP Business Writer
>03/29/00
>
>[snip...]
>
>The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is
>equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of
>planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of
>privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's
>largest accounting and consulting firms.

It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a
firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical
practices" in its Independent Auditing function.

Ted

-- __--__--

_______________________________________________
raven mailing list
raven@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven

End of raven Digest

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:04:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "P.J. Ponder" <ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: raven@ietf.org
Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs (fwd)

Can someone who speaks German contact this person and let him or her know
that their auto-responder is copying the list itself (raven@ietf.org) with
all of it's outgoing messages?

I tried, and got back an auto-reply in German....

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200
From: marc.mausch@gruene.de
To: ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us
Subject: Autoreply: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs

Hallo,

dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort.

Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich
die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten.

Mit vielen Grüßen,

Marc Mausch

Your message reads:

Received: from fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (unverified [199.44.37.210]) by green.gruene.de
 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id <B0000692650@green.gruene.de> for <marc.mausch@gruene.de>;
 Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:21:14 +0200
Received: from localhost (ponder@localhost) by fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA28027 for <marc.mausch@gruene.de>; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:05 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:57:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "P.J. Ponder" <ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: marc.mausch@gruene.de
Subject: Re: [Raven] Autoreply: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs
In-Reply-To: <B0000692605@green.gruene.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000329125514.32294A-100000@fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Marc,
you appear to have the auto-reply function copying the Raven list itself.
If you want to create a digest, that is good, but do you think it should
be automatically sent to all the subscribers, whether they have asked for
it or not?
--
pj

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 marc.mausch@gruene.de wrote:

> Hallo,
>=20
> dies ist eine automatisch generierte Antwort.
>=20
> Ich bin nun bis 18.April 2000 im Urlaub. Bis dahin kann ich
> die Emails leider nicht bearbeiten.
>=20
> Mit vielen Gr=FC=DFen,
>=20
> Marc Mausch
>=20
>=20
> Your message reads:
>=20
> Received: from optimus.ietf.org (unverified [132.151.1.19]) by green.grue=
ne.de
>  (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.6) with ESMTP id <B0000692604@green.gruene.de> for=
 <marc.mausch@gruene.de>;
>  Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:48:55 +0200
> Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> =09by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27904;
> =09Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST)
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:00:02 -0500 (EST)
> From: raven-admin@ietf.org
> Message-Id: <200003291700.MAA27904@optimus.ietf.org>
> Subject: raven digest, Vol 1 #168 - 2 msgs
> Reply-to: raven@ietf.org
> X-mailer: Mailman v1.0
> Mime-version: 1.0
> Content-type: text/plain
> To: raven@ietf.org
> Sender: raven-admin@ietf.org
> Errors-To: raven-admin@ietf.org
> X-Mailman-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: bulk
> List-Id: Raven Discussion List <raven.ietf.org>
> X-BeenThere: raven@ietf.org
>=20
>=20
> Send raven mailing list submissions to
> =09raven@ietf.org
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
> =09http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> =09raven-request@ietf.org
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> =09raven-admin@ietf.org
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of raven digest..."
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:
>=20
>   1. SEC surveillance system (P.J. Ponder)
>   2. Re: SEC surveillance system (Ted Gavin)
>=20
> -- __--__--
>=20
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST)
> From: "P.J. Ponder" <ponder@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
> To: raven@ietf.org
> Subject: [Raven] SEC surveillance system
>=20
> (for our international readers and the acronym disadvantaged, 'SEC' is th=
e
> US government agency that monitors and regulates financial markets, stock
> trading, and other related activities, ostensibly to ensure competition
> and to protect the innocent investing public.)
>=20
>=20
> http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D16=
42499
>=20
> SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20
> 03:55EST=20
>=20
> By MARCY GORDON
> AP Business Writer=20
> 03/29/00=20
>=20
> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal regulators, on the lookout for
> phrases such as "get rich quick,'' are creating an automated
> surveillance system to search Web sites and message
> boards for investment fraud.=20
>=20
> But a major accounting firm says it won't participate because
> the Securities and Exchange Commission's new system
> might encroach on the privacy of innocent people using the
> Internet.=20
>=20
> The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is
> equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of
> planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of
> privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's
> largest accounting and consulting firms.=20
>=20
> < . . . . >
>=20
>=20
> -- __--__--
>=20
> Message: 2
> From: Ted Gavin <tedgavin@bellatlantic.net>
> To: raven@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Raven] SEC surveillance system
> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:51:09 -0500
> Organization: Zem & Zem Bedding Co, Inc.
> Reply-To: tedgavin@bellatlantic.net
>=20
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:45:36 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>=20
> [snip...]
>=20
> >http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=3D980&ern=3Dy&ei=3D1=
642499
> >
> >SEC Creating Web Surveillance=20
> >03:55EST=20
> >
> >By MARCY GORDON
> >AP Business Writer=20
> >03/29/00=20
> >
> >[snip...]
> >
> >The technology in the enhanced SEC surveillance program "is
> >equivalent to, in my opinion, wiretapping ... the equivalent of
> >planting a bug,'' said Larry Ponemon, a partner in charge of
> >privacy issues at PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the world's
> >largest accounting and consulting firms.=20
>=20
> It is deliciously ironic that the noted opposition comes from PWC, a
> firm which has been under SEC scrutiny for "questionable ethical
> practices" in its Independent Auditing function.
>=20
> Ted
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -- __--__--
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> raven mailing list
> raven@ietf.org
> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven
>=20
>=20
> End of raven Digest
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> raven mailing list
> raven@ietf.org
> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven
>=20

--__--__--

_______________________________________________
raven mailing list
raven@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven

End of raven Digest

--
Marc Mausch
Buendnis 90/Die Gruenen Baden-Wuerttemberg
Landesvorstand

http://www.marcmausch.de/
marc.mausch@gruene.de
  --------------FA0E2135A897EDF87D28401A-- _______________________________________________ raven mailing list raven@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven