From nobody Mon Dec 2 05:26:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6708C12024E for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 05:26:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T6cf03Qi4iGi for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 05:26:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cold1srv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (cold1srv.RZ.UniBw-Muenchen.de [137.193.6.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C2DE12006D for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 05:26:47 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: cold1srv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.i=none IronPort-SDR: mPOgZwqPRx4fqRl41dayPWQKxcVaCPFHN/RoDFaR3pH0MLK4Y/6O948KUnKTw9e2DFF6avWlmo fk4a0kai+7uYEkYatr2qGS9Pu2uBYJv20= IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AdPsuhREYyOsClPnMtJ0g051GYnJ96ZzpIg4Y7I?= =?us-ascii?q?YmgLtSc6Oluq7vJ1Hb+e4y0Q3CWoHXsulelazMoeb9X20K/tOErX0Ee5xBUV?= =?us-ascii?q?kJhJZekw8hBZuDDkv2ZL7vYjchFctPHFli4zmgMEdTFcq/L13fq3G/93gTTx?= =?us-ascii?q?P4Mwd4?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2BgAAAcEOVd/+d4wYlmGgEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQMBAQEBEQEBAQICAQEBAYF+gW8sBWwrKTMqlUeBAYJrlVoggUcJAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAwUTEgoBAYRAAoILJDgTAgMNAQEBBAEBAQEBBQMBbYU3DIVTBnkOAgs?= =?us-ascii?q?tGQIZATsGAQwGAgEBgx4BgmgPD7JTH4QfAoEPhGEKBgWBMYFTg0iIVj+BESe?= =?us-ascii?q?CNzU+gmQBAQIBgRsJBAUBEgElESiFLwSNOSGFb5p1BwOBQW2DUYI1gRiONQY?= =?us-ascii?q?bgkGHbYQTi2KOSoFChnqGUosxgWkiZ3FxT4JsUBEUkQyEYYVAQzABjxuCMgE?= =?us-ascii?q?B?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2BgAAAcEOVd/+d4wYlmGgEBAQEBAQEBAQMBAQEBEQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QICAQEBAYF+gW8sBWwrKTMqlUeBAYJrlVoggUcJAQEBAQEBAQEBAwUTEgoBA?= =?us-ascii?q?YRAAoILJDgTAgMNAQEBBAEBAQEBBQMBbYU3DIVTBnkOAgstGQIZATsGAQwGA?= =?us-ascii?q?gEBgx4BgmgPD7JTH4QfAoEPhGEKBgWBMYFTg0iIVj+BESeCNzU+gmQBAQIBg?= =?us-ascii?q?RsJBAUBEgElESiFLwSNOSGFb5p1BwOBQW2DUYI1gRiONQYbgkGHbYQTi2KOS?= =?us-ascii?q?oFChnqGUosxgWkiZ3FxT4JsUBEUkQyEYYVAQzABjxuCMgEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6000,8403,9458"; a="43457315" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.69,268,1571695200"; d="p7s'?scan'208,217";a="43457315" Received: from 120-231.dynamic.rz.unibw-muenchen.de ([137.193.120.231]) by cold1srv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 02 Dec 2019 14:26:43 +0100 To: "Georgios Z. Papadopoulos" , "Nils.Maeurer@dlr.de" , "Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de" Cc: "raw@ietf.org" References: <7D5469BD-5F3A-4AF1-8E82-F40B5CF4C0F6@imt-atlantique.fr> From: "Dr. Corinna Schmitt" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 14:26:43 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7D5469BD-5F3A-4AF1-8E82-F40B5CF4C0F6@imt-atlantique.fr> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms080904020000050604020607" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Raw] RAW use-cases draft X-BeenThere: raw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: reliable and available wireless List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 13:26:51 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080904020000050604020607 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7E26C607C92C7C92D6C81702" Content-Language: de-DE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7E26C607C92C7C92D6C81702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Georgies, I do not know if Nils already answered as he is currently traveling. So here is some text copied from out LDACS draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00) from Chapter 3 entitled "Motivation and Use Cases: 3 . Motivation and Use Cases Aircraft are currently connected to Air-Traffic Control (ATC) and Airline Operational Control (AOC) via voice and data communications systems through all phases of a flight. Within the airport terminal, connectivity is focused on high bandwidth communications, while during en-route high reliability, robustness, and range is the main focus. Voice communications may use the same or different equipment as data communications systems. In the following the main differences between voice and data communications capabilities are summarized. The assumed use cases for LDACS completes the list of use cases stated in [RAW-USE-CASES ] and the list of reliable and available wireless technologies presented in [RAW-TECHNOS ]. 3.1 . Voice Communications Today Voice links are used for Air-To-Ground (A/G) and Air-To-Air (A/A) communications. The communication equipment is either ground-based working in the High Frequency (HF) or Very High Frequency (VHF) frequency band or satellite-based. All voice communications is operated via open broadcast channels without any authentication, encryption or other protective measures. The use of well-proven communication procedures via broadcast channels helps to enhance the safety of communications by taking into account that other users may encounter communication problems and may be supported, if required. The main voice communications media is still the analogue VHF Double Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (DSB-AM) communications technique, supplemented by HF Single Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (SSB-AM) and satellite communications for remote and oceanic areas. DSB-AM has been in use since 1948, works reliably and safely, and uses low-cost communication equipment. These are the main reasons why VHF DSB-AM communications is still in use, and it is likely that this technology will remain in service for many more years. This however results in current operational limitations and becomes impediments in deploying new Air-Traffic Management (ATM) applications, such as flight-centric operation with point-to-point communications. 3.2 . Data Communications Today Like for voice, data communications into the cockpit is currently provided by ground-based equipment operating either on HF or VHF radio bands or by legacy satellite systems. All these communication systems are using narrowband radio channels with a data throughput capacity of some kilobits per second. While the aircraft is on ground some additional communications systems are available, like Aeronautical Mobile Airport Communication System (AeroMACS), operating in the Airport (APT) domain and able to deliver broadband communication capability. The data communication networks used for the transmission of data relating to the safety and regularity of the flight must be strictly isolated from those providing entertainment services to passengers. This leads to a situation that the flight crews are supported by narrowband services during flight while passengers have access to inflight broadband services. The current HF and VHF data links cannot provide broadband services now or in the future, due to the lack of available spectrum. This technical shortcoming is becoming a limitation to enhanced ATM operations, such as Trajectory-Based Operations (TBO) and 4D trajectory negotiations. Satellite-based communications are currently under investigation and enhanced capabilities are under development which will be able to provide inflight broadband services and communications supporting the safety and regularity of the flight. In parallel, the ground-based broadband data link technology LDACS is being standardized by ICAO and has recently shown its maturity during flight tests [SCH191 ]. The LDACS technology is scalable, secure and spectrum efficient and provides significant advantages to the users and service providers. It is expected that both - satellite systems and LDACS - will be deployed to support the future aeronautical communication needs as envisaged by the ICAO Global Air Navigation Plan (GANP).=20 Regards, Corinna Am 28.11.19 um 13:01 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos: > Hello Nils, > > Could you please provide some text about the=A0aeronautical > communications use case thus, we could update the draft accordingly. > Or you could directly integrate it to the draft. > > thanks, > Georgios --=20 ****************************************************** Dr. Corinna Schmitt Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor Research Institute CODE Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39 85577 Neubiberg, Germany Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314 Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de https://www.unibw.de/code https://www.corinna-schmitt.de --------------7E26C607C92C7C92D6C81702 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Georgies,

I do not know if Nils already answered as he is currently traveling.
So here is some text copied from out LDACS draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeu= rer-raw-ldacs-00) from Chapter 3 entitled "Motivation and Use Cases:


3.  Motivation and Use Cases


   Aircraft are currently connected to Air-Traffic Control (ATC) and
   Airline Operational Control (AOC) via voice and data communications
   systems through all phases of a flight.  Within the airport terminal,
   connectivity is focused on high bandwidth communications, while
   during en-route high reliability, robustness, and range is the main
   focus.  Voice communications may use the same or different equipment
   as data communications systems.  In the following the main
   differences between voice and data communications capabilities are
   summarized.  The assumed use cases for LDACS completes the list of
   use cases stated in [R=
AW-USE-CASES] and the list of reliable and
   available wireless technologies presented in [RAW-TECHNOS].


3.1<=
/a>.  Voice Communications Today


   Voice links are used for Air-To-Ground (A/G) and Air-To-Air (A/A)
   communications.  The communication equipment is either ground-based
   working in the High Frequency (HF) or Very High Frequency (VHF)
   frequency band or satellite-based.  All voice communications is
   operated via open broadcast channels without any authentication,
   encryption or other protective measures.  The use of well-proven
   communication procedures via broadcast channels helps to enhance the
   safety of communications by taking into account that other users may
   encounter communication problems and may be supported, if required.
   The main voice communications media is still the analogue VHF Double
   Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (DSB-AM) communications technique,
   supplemented by HF Single Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (SSB-AM) and
   satellite communications for remote and oceanic areas.  DSB-AM has
   been in use since 1948, works reliably and safely, and uses low-cost
   communication equipment.  These are the main reasons why VHF DSB-AM
   communications is still in use, and it is likely that this technology
   will remain in service for many more years.  This however results in
   current operational limitations and becomes impediments in deploying
   new Air-Traffic Management (ATM) applications, such as flight-centric
   operation with point-to-point communications.


3.2<=
/a>.  Data Communications Today


   Like for voice, data communications into the cockpit is currently
   provided by ground-based equipment operating either on HF or VHF
   radio bands or by legacy satellite systems.  All these communication
   systems are using narrowband radio channels with a data throughput
   capacity of some kilobits per second.  While the aircraft is on
   ground some additional communications systems are available, like
   Aeronautical Mobile Airport Communication System (AeroMACS),
   operating in the Airport (APT) domain and able to deliver broadband
   communication capability.

   The data communication networks used for the transmission of data
   relating to the safety and regularity of the flight must be strictly
   isolated from those providing entertainment services to passengers.
   This leads to a situation that the flight crews are supported by
   narrowband services during flight while passengers have access to
   inflight broadband services.  The current HF and VHF data links
   cannot provide broadband services now or in the future, due to the
   lack of available spectrum.  This technical shortcoming is becoming a
   limitation to enhanced ATM operations, such as Trajectory-Based
   Operations (TBO) and 4D trajectory negotiations.

   Satellite-based communications are currently under investigation and
   enhanced capabilities are under development which will be able to
   provide inflight broadband services and communications supporting the
   safety and regularity of the flight.  In parallel, the ground-based
   broadband data link technology LDACS is being standardized by ICAO
   and has recently shown its maturity during flight tests [SCH191].
   The LDACS technology is scalable, secure and spectrum efficient and
   provides significant advantages to the users and service providers.
   It is expected that both - satellite systems and LDACS - will be
   deployed to support the future aeronautical communication needs as
   envisaged by the ICAO Global Air Navigation Plan (GANP).=20





Regards,
Corinna



Am 28.11.19 um 13:01 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos:
Hello Nils,

Could you please provide some text about the=A0aeronaut= ical communications use case thus, we could update the draft accordingly.
Or yo= u could directly integrate it to the draft.

thank= s,
Georg= ios

--=20
******************************************************

Dr. Corinna Schmitt
Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor

Research Institute CODE
Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen

Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39
85577 Neubiberg, Germany

Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314
Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de
htt=
ps://www.unibw.de/code
https://www.corinna-schmitt.de
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10:23:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2E9120220 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 10:23:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOg8ZJj52mGP for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 10:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60CC51200DF for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 10:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0053301.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id xB3I85hM016006 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 13:23:06 -0500 Received: from alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp7.sbc.com [144.160.229.24]) by mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2wnt2npa71-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 03 Dec 2019 13:23:05 -0500 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id xB3IN4Ww000311 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 13:23:04 -0500 Received: from zlp27130.vci.att.com (zlp27130.vci.att.com [135.66.87.38]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id xB3IN0GY032652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 13:23:00 -0500 Received: from zlp27130.vci.att.com (zlp27130.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp27130.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 6452D400B57F for ; Tue, 3 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7ACEB80D29; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:13 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B92BAC9E-B12B-4600-BD42-826B97649E3B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: "Georgios Z. Papadopoulos" In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:13 +0100 Cc: "Nils.Maeurer@dlr.de" , "Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de" , "raw@ietf.org" Message-Id: <702A3F41-E70E-4C18-A83D-53CE5BF12FDC@imt-atlantique.fr> References: <7D5469BD-5F3A-4AF1-8E82-F40B5CF4C0F6@imt-atlantique.fr> To: "Dr. Corinna Schmitt" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Raw] RAW use-cases draft X-BeenThere: raw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: reliable and available wireless List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 09:21:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B92BAC9E-B12B-4600-BD42-826B97649E3B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Dear Corina, Thank you so much for this. We should work now on the .02 version. Keep you posted, Georgios > On Dec 2, 2019, at 14:26, Dr. Corinna Schmitt = wrote: >=20 > Dear Georgies, >=20 > I do not know if Nils already answered as he is currently traveling. > So here is some text copied from out LDACS draft = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00 = ) from Chapter 3 = entitled "Motivation and Use Cases: >=20 >=20 > 3 . = Motivation and Use Cases >=20 >=20 >=20 > Aircraft are currently connected to Air-Traffic Control (ATC) and > Airline Operational Control (AOC) via voice and data communications > systems through all phases of a flight. Within the airport = terminal, > connectivity is focused on high bandwidth communications, while > during en-route high reliability, robustness, and range is the main > focus. Voice communications may use the same or different = equipment > as data communications systems. In the following the main > differences between voice and data communications capabilities are > summarized. The assumed use cases for LDACS completes the list of > use cases stated in [RAW-USE-CASES = = ] and the list of reliable and > available wireless technologies presented in [RAW-TECHNOS = ].= >=20 > 3.1 = . = Voice Communications Today >=20 >=20 >=20 > Voice links are used for Air-To-Ground (A/G) and Air-To-Air (A/A) > communications. The communication equipment is either ground-based > working in the High Frequency (HF) or Very High Frequency (VHF) > frequency band or satellite-based. All voice communications is > operated via open broadcast channels without any authentication, > encryption or other protective measures. The use of well-proven > communication procedures via broadcast channels helps to enhance = the > safety of communications by taking into account that other users = may > encounter communication problems and may be supported, if required. > The main voice communications media is still the analogue VHF = Double > Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (DSB-AM) communications technique, > supplemented by HF Single Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (SSB-AM) = and > satellite communications for remote and oceanic areas. DSB-AM has > been in use since 1948, works reliably and safely, and uses = low-cost > communication equipment. These are the main reasons why VHF DSB-AM > communications is still in use, and it is likely that this = technology > will remain in service for many more years. This however results = in > current operational limitations and becomes impediments in = deploying > new Air-Traffic Management (ATM) applications, such as = flight-centric > operation with point-to-point communications. >=20 > 3.2 = . = Data Communications Today >=20 >=20 >=20 > Like for voice, data communications into the cockpit is currently > provided by ground-based equipment operating either on HF or VHF > radio bands or by legacy satellite systems. All these = communication > systems are using narrowband radio channels with a data throughput > capacity of some kilobits per second. While the aircraft is on > ground some additional communications systems are available, like > Aeronautical Mobile Airport Communication System (AeroMACS), > operating in the Airport (APT) domain and able to deliver broadband > communication capability. >=20 > The data communication networks used for the transmission of data > relating to the safety and regularity of the flight must be = strictly > isolated from those providing entertainment services to passengers. > This leads to a situation that the flight crews are supported by > narrowband services during flight while passengers have access to > inflight broadband services. The current HF and VHF data links > cannot provide broadband services now or in the future, due to the > lack of available spectrum. This technical shortcoming is becoming = a > limitation to enhanced ATM operations, such as Trajectory-Based > Operations (TBO) and 4D trajectory negotiations. >=20 > Satellite-based communications are currently under investigation = and > enhanced capabilities are under development which will be able to > provide inflight broadband services and communications supporting = the > safety and regularity of the flight. In parallel, the ground-based > broadband data link technology LDACS is being standardized by ICAO > and has recently shown its maturity during flight tests [SCH191 = ]. > The LDACS technology is scalable, secure and spectrum efficient and > provides significant advantages to the users and service providers. > It is expected that both - satellite systems and LDACS - will be > deployed to support the future aeronautical communication needs as > envisaged by the ICAO Global Air Navigation Plan (GANP).=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards, > Corinna >=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 28.11.19 um 13:01 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos: >> Hello Nils, >>=20 >> Could you please provide some text about the aeronautical = communications use case thus, we could update the draft accordingly. >> Or you could directly integrate it to the draft. >>=20 >> thanks, >> Georgios >=20 > --=20 > ****************************************************** >=20 > Dr. Corinna Schmitt > Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor >=20 > Research Institute CODE > Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen >=20 > Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39 > 85577 Neubiberg, Germany >=20 > Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314 > Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de > https://www.unibw.de/code > https://www.corinna-schmitt.de --Apple-Mail=_B92BAC9E-B12B-4600-BD42-826B97649E3B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Dear Corina,

Thank you so much for this.
We should = work now on the .02 version.

Keep you posted,
Georgios



On Dec 2, 2019, at 14:26, Dr. Corinna Schmitt <corinna.schmitt@unibw.de> wrote:

=20 =20
Dear = Georgies,

I do not know if Nils already answered as he is currently traveling.
So here is some text copied from out LDACS draft (https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00) from Chapter 3 entitled "Motivation and Use Cases:


=
3.  Motivation and Use Cases


   Aircraft are currently connected to Air-Traffic Control (ATC) and
   Airline Operational Control (AOC) via voice and data communications
   systems through all phases of a flight.  Within the airport terminal,
   connectivity is focused on high bandwidth communications, while
   during en-route high reliability, robustness, and range is the main
   focus.  Voice communications may use the same or different equipment
   as data communications systems.  In the following the main
   differences between voice and data communications capabilities are
   summarized.  The assumed use cases for LDACS completes the list of
   use cases stated in [RAW-USE-CASES] =
and the list of reliable and
   available wireless technologies presented in [RAW-TECHNOS].


3.1.  Voice Communications Today


   Voice links are used for Air-To-Ground (A/G) and Air-To-Air (A/A)
   communications.  The communication equipment is either ground-based
   working in the High Frequency (HF) or Very High Frequency (VHF)
   frequency band or satellite-based.  All voice communications is
   operated via open broadcast channels without any authentication,
   encryption or other protective measures.  The use of well-proven
   communication procedures via broadcast channels helps to enhance the
   safety of communications by taking into account that other users may
   encounter communication problems and may be supported, if required.
   The main voice communications media is still the analogue VHF Double
   Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (DSB-AM) communications technique,
   supplemented by HF Single Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (SSB-AM) and
   satellite communications for remote and oceanic areas.  DSB-AM has
   been in use since 1948, works reliably and safely, and uses low-cost
   communication equipment.  These are the main reasons why VHF DSB-AM
   communications is still in use, and it is likely that this technology
   will remain in service for many more years.  This however results in
   current operational limitations and becomes impediments in deploying
   new Air-Traffic Management (ATM) applications, such as flight-centric
   operation with point-to-point communications.


3.2.  Data Communications Today


   Like for voice, data communications into the cockpit is currently
   provided by ground-based equipment operating either on HF or VHF
   radio bands or by legacy satellite systems.  All these communication
   systems are using narrowband radio channels with a data throughput
   capacity of some kilobits per second.  While the aircraft is on
   ground some additional communications systems are available, like
   Aeronautical Mobile Airport Communication System (AeroMACS),
   operating in the Airport (APT) domain and able to deliver broadband
   communication capability.

   The data communication networks used for the transmission of data
   relating to the safety and regularity of the flight must be strictly
   isolated from those providing entertainment services to passengers.
   This leads to a situation that the flight crews are supported by
   narrowband services during flight while passengers have access to
   inflight broadband services.  The current HF and VHF data links
   cannot provide broadband services now or in the future, due to the
   lack of available spectrum.  This technical shortcoming is becoming a
   limitation to enhanced ATM operations, such as Trajectory-Based
   Operations (TBO) and 4D trajectory negotiations.

   Satellite-based communications are currently under investigation and
   enhanced capabilities are under development which will be able to
   provide inflight broadband services and communications supporting the
   safety and regularity of the flight.  In parallel, the ground-based
   broadband data link technology LDACS is being standardized by ICAO
   and has recently shown its maturity during flight tests [SCH191].
   The LDACS technology is scalable, secure and spectrum efficient and
   provides significant advantages to the users and service providers.
   It is expected that both - satellite systems and LDACS - will be
   deployed to support the future aeronautical communication needs as
   envisaged by the ICAO Global Air Navigation Plan (GANP).=20





Regards,
Corinna



Am 28.11.19 um 13:01 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos:
Hello Nils,

Could you please provide some text about = the aeronautical communications use case thus, we could update the draft accordingly.
Or = you could directly integrate it to the draft.

thanks,
Georgios

--=20
******************************************************

Dr. Corinna Schmitt
Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor

Research Institute CODE
Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen

Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39
85577 Neubiberg, Germany

Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314
Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de
https://www.unibw.de/code
https://www.corinna-schmitt.de

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Papadopoulos" Cc: "Nils.Maeurer@dlr.de" , "Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de" , "raw@ietf.org" References: <7D5469BD-5F3A-4AF1-8E82-F40B5CF4C0F6@imt-atlantique.fr> <702A3F41-E70E-4C18-A83D-53CE5BF12FDC@imt-atlantique.fr> From: "Dr. Corinna Schmitt" Message-ID: <5ff22e5a-0449-45e2-c540-9845d8495a3f@unibw.de> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:24:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <702A3F41-E70E-4C18-A83D-53CE5BF12FDC@imt-atlantique.fr> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms030809050207030301040404" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Raw] RAW use-cases draft X-BeenThere: raw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: reliable and available wireless List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 09:24:47 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030809050207030301040404 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B13D9DC81DB7909D8B927677" Content-Language: de-DE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B13D9DC81DB7909D8B927677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Georgios, you are well come. Let us know where you need which input, so we can prepare it directly. An updated version for LDACS is scheduled in Q1 or Q2 of 2020 from our si= de. Regards, Corinna Am 04.12.19 um 10:21 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos: > Dear Corina, > > Thank you so much for this. > We should work now on the .02 version. > > Keep you posted, > Georgios > > > >> On Dec 2, 2019, at 14:26, Dr. Corinna Schmitt >> > wrote: >> >> Dear Georgies, >> >> I do not know if Nils already answered as he is currently traveling. >> So here is some text copied from out LDACS draft >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00) from Chapter >> 3 entitled "Motivation and Use Cases: >> >> >> 3 >> = =2E >> Motivation and Use Cases >> >> >> >> Aircraft are currently connected to Air-Traffic Control (ATC) and >> Airline Operational Control (AOC) via voice and data communications= >> systems through all phases of a flight. Within the airport termina= l, >> connectivity is focused on high bandwidth communications, while >> during en-route high reliability, robustness, and range is the main= >> focus. Voice communications may use the same or different equipmen= t >> as data communications systems. In the following the main >> differences between voice and data communications capabilities are >> summarized. The assumed use cases for LDACS completes the list of >> use cases stated in [RAW-USE-CASES ] and the list of reliable and >> available wireless technologies presented in [RAW-TECHNOS ]. >> >> >> 3.1 >> . >> Voice Communications Today >> >> >> >> Voice links are used for Air-To-Ground (A/G) and Air-To-Air (A/A) >> communications. The communication equipment is either ground-based= >> working in the High Frequency (HF) or Very High Frequency (VHF) >> frequency band or satellite-based. All voice communications is >> operated via open broadcast channels without any authentication, >> encryption or other protective measures. The use of well-proven >> communication procedures via broadcast channels helps to enhance th= e >> safety of communications by taking into account that other users ma= y >> encounter communication problems and may be supported, if required.= >> The main voice communications media is still the analogue VHF Doubl= e >> Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (DSB-AM) communications technique, >> supplemented by HF Single Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (SSB-AM) a= nd >> satellite communications for remote and oceanic areas. DSB-AM has >> been in use since 1948, works reliably and safely, and uses low-cos= t >> communication equipment. These are the main reasons why VHF DSB-AM= >> communications is still in use, and it is likely that this technolo= gy >> will remain in service for many more years. This however results i= n >> current operational limitations and becomes impediments in deployin= g >> new Air-Traffic Management (ATM) applications, such as flight-centr= ic >> operation with point-to-point communications. >> >> >> 3.2 >> . >> Data Communications Today >> >> >> >> Like for voice, data communications into the cockpit is currently >> provided by ground-based equipment operating either on HF or VHF >> radio bands or by legacy satellite systems. All these communicatio= n >> systems are using narrowband radio channels with a data throughput >> capacity of some kilobits per second. While the aircraft is on >> ground some additional communications systems are available, like >> Aeronautical Mobile Airport Communication System (AeroMACS), >> operating in the Airport (APT) domain and able to deliver broadband= >> communication capability. >> >> The data communication networks used for the transmission of data >> relating to the safety and regularity of the flight must be strictl= y >> isolated from those providing entertainment services to passengers.= >> This leads to a situation that the flight crews are supported by >> narrowband services during flight while passengers have access to >> inflight broadband services. The current HF and VHF data links >> cannot provide broadband services now or in the future, due to the >> lack of available spectrum. This technical shortcoming is becoming= a >> limitation to enhanced ATM operations, such as Trajectory-Based >> Operations (TBO) and 4D trajectory negotiations. >> >> Satellite-based communications are currently under investigation an= d >> enhanced capabilities are under development which will be able to >> provide inflight broadband services and communications supporting t= he >> safety and regularity of the flight. In parallel, the ground-based= >> broadband data link technology LDACS is being standardized by ICAO >> and has recently shown its maturity during flight tests [SCH191 ]. >> The LDACS technology is scalable, secure and spectrum efficient and= >> provides significant advantages to the users and service providers.= >> It is expected that both - satellite systems and LDACS - will be >> deployed to support the future aeronautical communication needs as >> envisaged by the ICAO Global Air Navigation Plan (GANP).=20 >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> Corinna >> >> >> >> Am 28.11.19 um 13:01 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos: >>> Hello Nils, >>> >>> Could you please provide some text about the=A0aeronautical >>> communications use case thus, we could update the draft accordingly. >>> Or you could directly integrate it to the draft. >>> >>> thanks, >>> Georgios >> >> --=20 >> ****************************************************** >> >> Dr. Corinna Schmitt >> Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor >> >> Research Institute CODE >> Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen >> >> Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39 >> 85577 Neubiberg, Germany >> >> Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314 >> Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de >> https://www.unibw.de/code >> https://www.corinna-schmitt.de > --=20 ****************************************************** Dr. Corinna Schmitt Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor Research Institute CODE Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39 85577 Neubiberg, Germany Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314 Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de https://www.unibw.de/code https://www.corinna-schmitt.de --------------B13D9DC81DB7909D8B927677 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Georgios,

you are well come.
Let us know where you need which input, so we can prepare it directly.
An updated version for LDACS is scheduled in Q1 or Q2 of 2020 from our side.

Regards,
Corinna



Am 04.12.19 um 10:21 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos:
Dear Corina,

Thank you so much for this.
We should work now on the .02 version.

Keep you posted,
Georgios



On Dec 2, 2019, at 14:26, Dr. Corinna Schmitt= <corinna.schmitt@unibw.de>= wrote:

= Dear Georgies,

I do not know if Nils already answered as he is currently traveling.
So here is some text copied from out LDACS draft (https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00) from Chapter 3 entitled "Motivation and Use Cases: 

=
3.=
  Motivation and Use Cases


   Aircraft are currently connected to Air-Traffic Control (ATC) and
   Airline Operational Control (AOC) via voice and data communications
   systems through all phases of a flight.  Within the airport terminal,
   connectivity is focused on high bandwidth communications, while
   during en-route high reliability, robustness, and range is the main
   focus.  Voice communications may use the same or different equipment
   as data communications systems.  In the following the main
   differences between voice and data communications capabilities are
   summarized.  The assumed use cases for LDACS completes the list of
   use cases stated in [RAW-USE-CASES] and the list of rel=
iable and
   available wireless technologies presented in [RAW-TECHNOS].


3.1.  Voice Communications Today

   Voice links are used for Air-To-Ground (A/G) and Air-To-Air (A/A)
   communications.  The communication equipment is either ground-based
   working in the High Frequency (HF) or Very High Frequency (VHF)
   frequency band or satellite-based.  All voice communications is
   operated via open broadcast channels without any authentication,
   encryption or other protective measures.  The use of well-proven
   communication procedures via broadcast channels helps to enhance the
   safety of communications by taking into account that other users may
   encounter communication problems and may be supported, if required.
   The main voice communications media is still the analogue VHF Double
   Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (DSB-AM) communications technique,
   supplemented by HF Single Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (SSB-AM) and
   satellite communications for remote and oceanic areas.  DSB-AM has
   been in use since 1948, works reliably and safely, and uses low-cost
   communication equipment.  These are the main reasons why VHF DSB-AM
   communications is still in use, and it is likely that this technology
   will remain in service for many more years.  This however results in
   current operational limitations and becomes impediments in deploying
   new Air-Traffic Management (ATM) applications, such as flight-centric
   operation with point-to-point communications.


3.2.  Data Communications Today

   Like for voice, data communications into the cockpit is currently
   provided by ground-based equipment operating either on HF or VHF
   radio bands or by legacy satellite systems.  All these communication
   systems are using narrowband radio channels with a data throughput
   capacity of some kilobits per second.  While the aircraft is on
   ground some additional communications systems are available, like
   Aeronautical Mobile Airport Communication System (AeroMACS),
   operating in the Airport (APT) domain and able to deliver broadband
   communication capability.

   The data communication networks used for the transmission of data
   relating to the safety and regularity of the flight must be strictly
   isolated from those providing entertainment services to passengers.
   This leads to a situation that the flight crews are supported by
   narrowband services during flight while passengers have access to
   inflight broadband services.  The current HF and VHF data links
   cannot provide broadband services now or in the future, due to the
   lack of available spectrum.  This technical shortcoming is becoming a
   limitation to enhanced ATM operations, such as Trajectory-Based
   Operations (TBO) and 4D trajectory negotiations.

   Satellite-based communications are currently under investigation and
   enhanced capabilities are under development which will be able to
   provide inflight broadband services and communications supporting the
   safety and regularity of the flight.  In parallel, the ground-based
   broadband data link technology LDACS is being standardized by ICAO
   and has recently shown its maturity during flight tests [SCH191].
   The LDACS technology is scalable, secure and spectrum efficient and
   provides significant advantages to the users and service providers.
   It is expected that both - satellite systems and LDACS - will be
   deployed to support the future aeronautical communication needs as
   envisaged by the ICAO Global Air Navigation Plan (GANP).=20





Regards,
Corinna



Am 28.11.19 um 13:01 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos:
Hello Nils,

Could you please provide some text abou= t the=A0aeronautical communications use case thus, we could update the draft accordingly.=
Or you could directly integrate it to the draft.

thanks,
Georgios

--=20
******************************************************

Dr. Corinna Schmitt
Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor

Research Institute CODE
Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen

Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39
85577 Neubiberg, Germany

Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314
Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de
https://www.unibw.de/code
https://www.corinna-schmitt.de


--=20
******************************************************

Dr. Corinna Schmitt
Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor

Research Institute CODE
Universit=E4t der Bundeswehr M=FCnchen

Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39
85577 Neubiberg, Germany

Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314
Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de
htt=
ps://www.unibw.de/code
https://www.corinna-schmitt.de
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01:40:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBA5120119 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 01:40:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=imt-atlantique.fr Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8XcgWr8Y1NN4 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 01:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from zproxy120.enst.fr (zproxy120.enst.fr [137.194.2.193]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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lmpK4Bd5d+XcxAi3VvqsfA1LjGBrCBUeDWzJXibrAkXkW5kFWGzunOkGS1H7T56lRF 5SiLsGfVjY8U7lnXKBrVXoyiKERYU1mmWnYnYVzQ= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zproxy120.enst.fr Received: from zproxy120.enst.fr ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zproxy120.enst.fr [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id zUT7TyQdtpWV; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:40:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:79a3:1bbc:ba39:d616] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:79a3:1bbc:ba39:d616]) by zproxy120.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 67CC1806F4; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:40:44 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B4A3CB8E-4805-42F9-AD66-9257E6E976B2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: "Georgios Z. Papadopoulos" In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:40:43 +0100 Cc: "raw@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Raw] RAW BoF - next steps X-BeenThere: raw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: reliable and available wireless List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 09:40:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B4A3CB8E-4805-42F9-AD66-9257E6E976B2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello Deborah, Thank you so much for this encouraging e-mail!=20 We will take into account your comments and continue working on the = drafts. Thanks, Georgios > On Dec 3, 2019, at 19:22, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A wrote: >=20 > Hi RAW, > =20 > I wanted to follow-up with you on next steps. The BoF went very well = =E2=80=93 lots of enthusiasm, though some concerns voiced on charter. = There was a preference to limit the scope of the work (use cases, = requirements, gap analysis) vs. including protocol work at this time. I = don=E2=80=99t see the minutes posted yet, encourage the note taker to = get those posted. There is a video recording. > =20 > With the holidays fast approaching, my plan is to work on the charter = based on the discussion, circulate on the list, and by late January ask = for approval by the IESG. I encourage you to continue working on the = drafts as they will help in refining the charter and demonstrate = interest in doing the work. > =20 > Thanks! > Deborah > (your supporting AD=F0=9F=98=8A) > =20 > --=20 > Raw mailing list > Raw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raw = --Apple-Mail=_B4A3CB8E-4805-42F9-AD66-9257E6E976B2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello Deborah,

Thank you so much for this encouraging = e-mail! 
We will take into account your = comments and continue working on the drafts.

Thanks,
Georgios


On Dec 3, 2019, at 19:22, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A <db3546@att.com> = wrote:

Hi RAW,
 
I wanted = to follow-up with you on next steps. The BoF went very well =E2=80=93 = lots of enthusiasm, though some concerns voiced on charter. There was a = preference to limit the scope of the work (use cases, requirements, gap = analysis) vs. including protocol work at this time. I don=E2=80=99t see = the minutes posted yet, encourage the note taker to get those posted. = There is a video recording.
 
With the holidays fast approaching, my = plan is to work on the charter based on the discussion, circulate on the = list, and by late January ask for approval by the IESG. I encourage you = to continue working on the drafts as they will help in refining the = charter and demonstrate interest in doing the work.
 
Thanks!
Deborah
(your = supporting AD=F0=9F=98=8A)
 
-- 
Raw mailing = list
Raw@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raw

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