From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 1 11:26:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E12E129E83 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.286 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.286 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R2QP6yjAjBUk for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81496129E81 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF5AB817B6; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EB0B817B6; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jam-2-sR7Lmc; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x241.google.com (mail-io0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::241]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4727B817B5; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x241.google.com with SMTP id c80so22001474iod.1; Wed, 01 Feb 2017 11:26:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AA0bR2ftwOr0zM3nZ2dBwGp70/rtL8YWRXEJsvmCtIU=; b=kQCA/KUl0BwpvHLz6i3Y1JsFJeJwI/12HaIzKhU9BP2oSFOMhso6Z6W66kePJsxStI QQtGtlzdg07A+75IpWVCpWMvSqKRC/4o1ozjvQhT/GxSjyFwtr2/Q2irEF+assIGpPGB e2osy4GAl74s//Uj0XL5OM8Ar2VZatY7xkLkZ1EfCpBBGVrtIofiL6+P+6Ey15fxsGKv bctgn9OBA9dKYwYbNF2LLm2UPz205JJqTKZAenzgdF2ucgWXEXPOm02lUgFa8Jk/Kq9V HKk0ajB7ym6kwkBHqlvSY0hRneWaKT2eXsyIO2ERsPABme5iexq+L/v5Btf5niIuS4gp f34A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AA0bR2ftwOr0zM3nZ2dBwGp70/rtL8YWRXEJsvmCtIU=; b=g+A92f9FM9V8wOrzCLUvSZFWrb/sxqhbCIil3zFFdYdH1DCOZV65vWylASyAaLbPbp Pj+cF5fKraJD6hwSveot84jqjFFcGQToOnFFR35kLOuuz2XZgT4hLSgvpA5hEnuC+iCb CaBEdLyZIz5BtbnBg0uULqEJ1P13I8nBySXQKvVHzdYDGaMNSqJZQhasIaowKMJMOXek k19zDrDbFrb02EHP7dsgSQJcHagBjHCdchthpQOcOm6+HPLA0Y4VALkQYKiFt3SANOy1 Gop427f3DR2N9MhuHv0SbW7/do7JLD49BskcqFX4BdCZpfybu49HroXqtt8YZ0q57/CP gymQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJqUsYB/k403A5QacJT5GkrY4xi11HKzqeAezM7ueZadnKVkY3H6cjDL0wK1ri2NNl8Dcvwi7az+JYFHg== X-Received: by 10.107.141.80 with SMTP id p77mr3687661iod.97.1485977208248; Wed, 01 Feb 2017 11:26:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.41.72 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Feb 2017 11:26:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2a89e3c6-730a-3d35-6cb9-2d9425e400c7@rfc-editor.org> References: <20170127040607.77613.qmail@ary.lan> <2a89e3c6-730a-3d35-6cb9-2d9425e400c7@rfc-editor.org> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 14:26:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" Subject: Re: [rfc-i] [IAB] Fwd: Call for Comment: (Digital Preservation Considerations for the RFC Series) X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" , IAB IAB , architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" I agree with John Levine. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > On 1/26/17 8:06 PM, John Levine wrote: >>> Abstract >>> >>> The RFC Editor is both the publisher and the archivist for the RFC >>> Series. This document applies specifically to the archivist role of >>> the RFC Editor. It provides guidance on when and how to preserve >>> RFCs, and the tools required to view or re-create RFCs as necessary. >>> This document also highlights where gaps are in the current process, >>> and where compromises are suggested to balance cost with ideal best >>> practice. >> I'm generally in agreement with the advice in this draft, except for >> the parts about paper. >> >> We know that good quality paper with black ink is stable for >> centuries, because we have books from the 1700s and earlier in >> libraries that we can still read. I also know a surprising number of >> people doing retrocomputing who retype source code from old printouts >> from the 1960s. After 50 years, the electronic media are missing or >> unreadable, but the printouts are still OK. >> >> So I would suggest printing out the XML and perhaps one of the >> formatted versions (so they can see what the XML is supposed to say) >> of RFCs on good paper and filing them away. I think we can assume >> that OCR in the future will be at least as good as it is now, so as >> long as the printouts use a reasonable typeface, it'll be possible to >> scan them in if need be. It doesn't have to be in real time; a >> printathon once or twice a year should be plenty. >> > > Thank you for the feedback, John. Paper can indeed be a very stable > material for archival purposes. For digital-born documents, I think it's > insufficient for the purpose of archiving all the information intended > to be captured with a digital document and leaving it readable for the > future. Yes, information can be printed out that describes the metadata > for the document. The XML is human readable, in that it is not encrypted > or compiled in any way that a standard text reader and printer couldn't > handle. However, all that readable-but-not-user-friendly paper takes up > space and requires its own expertise to store and maintain in a properly > archival fashion. The RFC Editor does not have that experience, nor the > proper space, to store an ever growing body of work. We could of course > work on that, buying the correct paper and ink, reprinting all the RFCs, > and finding suitable climate (both humidity and temperature, with > appropriate fire suppression) controlled storage to house the material. > But that seems like a waste of resources when there are actual > archivists who can and will handle our material properly, in its digital > form. > > That said, of the archivists I've approached about the Series, the only > paper of interest is the original set that has unique, hand-written > annotations in the margins. All the newer documents are only interesting > in their digital form. The content is still interesting, but it takes up > much less physical space, and they have the processes in house for > handling the issues of bit rot. They also expect to support the > readability of the material (since we are using common publication > formats) far into the future. > > > Thanks, > Heather > > > > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 2 08:30:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C831297BC for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 08:30:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.156 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.156 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD=1.63, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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01 Feb 2017 21:37:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 323594.42892.bm@omp1010.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: Ia8ZaMAVM1kQN2zKKfRLOayOOmSjG28497WHrNacbcu5fhFX7ZOz2WkUuSU61Xw jtfXTaQYKQsVcYZ.k.rvRSeWEpf5QYCWR7yPJAAz6kmDNzqAC_bZLkqrqXtgKuNgdY7McDFEzkma qk3FTaeCsmJJQuTZ1Mgo2Q.GRMLz4G3cqMowUdhr6Vfg9cSYBmIzQSokvDnqniqy1ddNVuW8UGNf dwlmp.Md946rRZVlAUXrGf1OCSKkBWkRt2_aEPpP4F5BEkWzPr7YeIrSknB0pcHmYXh.7WtjRRQe RXt6bQmKg4yaxb_y7C0yR4pRJ3cx7jubDRlAMru0puwziWpMLXVl8iVlKGehe7IwaJDy8ebIeAcb WIq_zBESH7BTFCd3rJcgUWKxmwBWyAno_1GwVlsnQG1ulmfeysYJSWukWTbtYni0diZJ.EetXCgo PQ48yv6JTlKRb69c89tdIuhhEsW28.t7jUbEWD28Xu1zd_.iR7w6OTgCoGCqcAHHBLJtZxBtfgl8 eU4wMNdvzfLOSQypPEoiX Received: from jws400085.mail.bf2.yahoo.com by sendmailws132.mail.bf1.yahoo.com; Wed, 01 Feb 2017 21:37:15 +0000; 1485985035.941 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 21:37:12 +0000 (UTC) From: David Barak To: Donald Eastlake , "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" Message-ID: <1735879785.3831044.1485985032686@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20170127040607.77613.qmail@ary.lan> <2a89e3c6-730a-3d35-6cb9-2d9425e400c7@rfc-editor.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 08:30:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [rfc-i] [arch-d] [IAB] Fwd: Call for Comment: (Digital Preservation Considerations for the RFC Series) X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: David Barak Cc: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" , IAB IAB , "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4079307825003254390==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" --===============4079307825003254390== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3831043_1926467354.1485985032684" ------=_Part_3831043_1926467354.1485985032684 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used to be a collections management historian for the HABS/HAER project, = and that role was about ensuring archival stability of records.=C2=A0 The o= nly media which were deemed stable at the time were paper (500 years) ink-o= n-vellum (200 years), black& white photographs (150 years) and color transp= arencies (75 years).=C2=A0 No other medium was deemed stable for more than = about 20years.=C2=A0 I would advocate for using stable paper as the primary= archival means of retaining the content for the long term - records can be= re-digitized via new technology in a straightforward manner, but digital a= ccess can be easily lost in unrecoverable manners. Creating stable paper records is neither difficult nor expensive, and the a= ctual volume of all of the RFCs is not large relative to other paper collec= tions.=C2=A0David Barak=20 Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise:=20 http://www.cdbaby.com/all/thefranchise=20 On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:27 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: =20 I agree with John Levine. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > On 1/26/17 8:06 PM, John Levine wrote: >>> Abstract >>> >>>=C2=A0 The RFC Editor is both the publisher and the archivist for the RF= C >>>=C2=A0 Series.=C2=A0 This document applies specifically to the archivist= role of >>>=C2=A0 the RFC Editor.=C2=A0 It provides guidance on when and how to pre= serve >>>=C2=A0 RFCs, and the tools required to view or re-create RFCs as necessa= ry. >>>=C2=A0 This document also highlights where gaps are in the current proce= ss, >>>=C2=A0 and where compromises are suggested to balance cost with ideal be= st >>>=C2=A0 practice. >> I'm generally in agreement with the advice in this draft, except for >> the parts about paper. >> >> We know that good quality paper with black ink is stable for >> centuries, because we have books from the 1700s and earlier in >> libraries that we can still read.=C2=A0 I also know a surprising number = of >> people doing retrocomputing who retype source code from old printouts >> from the 1960s.=C2=A0 After 50 years, the electronic media are missing o= r >> unreadable, but the printouts are still OK. >> >> So I would suggest printing out the XML and perhaps one of the >> formatted versions (so they can see what the XML is supposed to say) >> of RFCs on good paper and filing them away.=C2=A0 I think we can assume >> that OCR in the future will be at least as good as it is now, so as >> long as the printouts use a reasonable typeface, it'll be possible to >> scan them in if need be.=C2=A0 It doesn't have to be in real time; a >> printathon once or twice a year should be plenty. >> > > Thank you for the feedback, John. Paper can indeed be a very stable > material for archival purposes. For digital-born documents, I think it's > insufficient for the purpose of archiving all the information intended > to be captured with a digital document and leaving it readable for the > future. Yes, information can be printed out that describes the metadata > for the document. The XML is human readable, in that it is not encrypted > or compiled in any way that a standard text reader and printer couldn't > handle. However, all that readable-but-not-user-friendly paper takes up > space and requires its own expertise to store and maintain in a properly > archival fashion. The RFC Editor does not have that experience, nor the > proper space, to store an ever growing body of work. We could of course > work on that, buying the correct paper and ink, reprinting all the RFCs, > and finding suitable climate (both humidity and temperature, with > appropriate fire suppression) controlled storage to house the material. > But that seems like a waste of resources when there are actual > archivists who can and will handle our material properly, in its digital > form. > > That said, of the archivists I've approached about the Series, the only > paper of interest is the original set that has unique, hand-written > annotations in the margins. All the newer documents are only interesting > in their digital form. The content is still interesting, but it takes up > much less physical space, and they have the processes in house for > handling the issues of bit rot. They also expect to support the > readability of the material (since we are using common publication > formats) far into the future. > > > Thanks, > Heather > > > > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss =20 ------=_Part_3831043_1926467354.1485985032684 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I used to be a collections management historian for the HABS/HA= ER project, and that role was about ensuring archival stability of records.=   The only media which were deemed stable at the time were paper (500 = years) ink-on-vellum (200 years), black& white photographs (150 years) = and color transparencies (75 years).  No other medium was deemed stabl= e for more than about 20years.  I would advocate for using stable pape= r as the primary archival means of retaining the content for the long term = - records can be re-digitized via new technology in a straightforward manne= r, but digital access can be easily lost in unrecoverable manners.
Creating stable paper records is neither= difficult nor expensive, and the actual volume of all of the RFCs is not l= arge relative to other paper collections.
 
David Barak
Need Geek Rock? Try = The Franchise:
http://www.cdbaby.com/all/thefranchise


On Wedne= sday, February 1, 2017 11:27 AM, Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> w= rote:


I agree wit= h John Levine.

Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Donald = E. Eastlake 3rd  +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
155 Beaver= Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
d3e3e3@gmail.= com


On Tue, Jan= 31, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)
<rse@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
&= gt; On 1/26/17 8:06 PM, John Levine wrote:
>>> A= bstract
>>>
>>> = The RFC Editor is both the publisher and the archivist for the RFC
>>>  Series.  This document applies specifi= cally to the archivist role of
>>>  the RF= C Editor.  It provides guidance on when and how to preserve
>>>  RFCs, and the tools required to view or re-cr= eate RFCs as necessary.
>>>  This document= also highlights where gaps are in the current process,
&= gt;>>  and where compromises are suggested to balance cost with= ideal best
>>>  practice.
>> I'm generally in agreement with the advice in this draft, excep= t for
>> the parts about paper.
&= gt;>
>> We know that good quality paper with bla= ck ink is stable for
>> centuries, because we have = books from the 1700s and earlier in
>> libraries th= at we can still read.  I also know a surprising number of
>> people doing retrocomputing who retype source code from old = printouts
>> from the 1960s.  After 50 years, = the electronic media are missing or
>> unreadable, = but the printouts are still OK.
>>
>> So I would suggest printing out the XML and perhaps one of the>> formatted versions (so they can see what the XML = is supposed to say)
>> of RFCs on good paper and fi= ling them away.  I think we can assume
>> that= OCR in the future will be at least as good as it is now, so as
>> long as the printouts use a reasonable typeface, it'll be p= ossible to
>> scan them in if need be.  It doe= sn't have to be in real time; a
>> printathon once = or twice a year should be plenty.
>>
>
> Thank you for the feedback, John. Paper can= indeed be a very stable
> material for archival purpo= ses. For digital-born documents, I think it's
> insuff= icient for the purpose of archiving all the information intended
> to be captured with a digital document and leaving it readab= le for the
> future. Yes, information can be printed o= ut that describes the metadata
> for the document. The= XML is human readable, in that it is not encrypted
> = or compiled in any way that a standard text reader and printer couldn't
> handle. However, all that readable-but-not-user-friendl= y paper takes up
> space and requires its own expertis= e to store and maintain in a properly
> archival fashi= on. The RFC Editor does not have that experience, nor the
> proper space, to store an ever growing body of work. We could of cour= se
> work on that, buying the correct paper and ink, r= eprinting all the RFCs,
> and finding suitable climate= (both humidity and temperature, with
> appropriate fi= re suppression) controlled storage to house the material.
> But that seems like a waste of resources when there are actual
> archivists who can and will handle our material properly, = in its digital
> form.
>
> That said, of the archivists I've approached about the Serie= s, the only
> paper of interest is the original set th= at has unique, hand-written
> annotations in the margi= ns. All the newer documents are only interesting
> in = their digital form. The content is still interesting, but it takes up
> much less physical space, and they have the processes in = house for
> handling the issues of bit rot. They also = expect to support the
> readability of the material (s= ince we are using common publication
> formats) far in= to the future.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Heather
>
>
>
> __________= _____________________________________
> rfc-interest m= ailing list
> rfc-in= terest@rfc-editor.org
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest


____= ___________________________________________
Architecture-= discuss mailing list
Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss


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X-Spam-Score: -3.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id anXJSWJ4R7l4 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 02:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABC8B1295B4 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 02:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5909BB819F4; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 02:22:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B03B819F2; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 02:22:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1SIQuMNBEk2R; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 02:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 441FCB819EC; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 02:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.197] ([5.10.171.186]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MSMr9-1czEqH0TSl-00TXT1; Wed, 08 Feb 2017 11:22:10 +0100 To: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" References: <53C0FEEE.9060903@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <49a49c57-14f5-0a38-698b-c6e1a9586bb5@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 11:22:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <53C0FEEE.9060903@gmx.de> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:UfUnsm1oqKkBYCSGGgmfthudfEyH9EBDZdPw4X7X5urOAO3GmB9 ntKKH82LcMIOByA2jSiDsDsSdcDZtod5m+04wOVpuwTjgT+FqX7GOHVdo8XrXDFUhLQwjC+ CSDWhjyOhJdMVqyUuineVcBZf+iX0sB/3+6F0z283t1zFgI62zPOMVoWTPAZNYKa7KnFkgW mg/3rlY4Bh2OyWWQe4TcA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:zrBDA45e4IY=:Sz4diJCDfCySQ6RTFp3/ic Wysn/eqV9NSAP9k8ggPn1MUt7VxoZ27M0bK9E+idNulp8VDppZ7L40DMjApK9oRE5VJHRKfY3 wapy+cKLeXiaLbPDyiMUvThPJ8b/eKy9ig2S/tIoQtuMa6OKf8fq7HzMrSC1fpOr+2bLh1kiK fHyG0VBtU4lRcTQcqoqlIE5344fVm+iLquzEHhuq+ir4zQv112mCkh2sAERXkzZuBwv85JJSu 3z2BooJnmaB6sBNrQPSlixraFfxwD+mD0RmT6Wb7W60i6Yvc+BGE+IuyzU+zH30gFOnDnWHk+ NRfuoPMVV+F9VZa9uM3hqRCHukJv3qHaHcm7tgnx5AKkX0KF1cJn9bz00DK2ELAazwEr9jm7K Yo5EcldYi5jTM80TQkEXrMFpf+Qjj35GI8PcBZ66GEIeQuE7yimUK/3+PDlQhsPbuK/8oqgpm tvUdSVAIbb4s80fphXOvjLmi+jXdDOdQvDP2UJOc62R99wxNCjcWFw74rDCpDqc42qUmCAihr zH3E5/y2D61HDyRmw7hMR8qvZg/RkUxUGqR+6jcVZv/GMWCOOOJWKy9rDTJaEixLv/ENxdYE8 ezrHCP2mNyGGKTKAK/zpstiEqbdBWPGWv79e2Gtks6q4ml0pcq+UPOMNp1GI4xCAwDRSVMJCk jlkmwcoVjCya4H8+2aJP5PFupFkH0fUrAAbivN05+Nfq0zvO0yQo9ORkB0hwm2SdOxWlWg6+A VBvQ23/XO7fk9/IuELnq2Rr1iW7y96M3XEenLyvQehI4CRDn+2ajKYKWB5gbKOp/taIfzgoSn 3OpB9Vmr4xDU3+YGdU5LMdnjXCFPRc6nhEeGq3TivmYeFUQwPbBZlyMynnSu4jd35X9fX7z6P uvQ1HB65P7NU/qImijm2NAX5VPdP4Jbl2sF6jAAPeJHAJrVl+EyJi0Zz/Fee1QCtUy1SwDB3n XFZ/vmH3WoEeBdRvpDQHpFxgyFBKN33eVyjkLEvaQ3pnytzE6yA4pb1mXh5nqqNHdx6Pa5NDI FP4K6/8g/cp9sLj8OQUrEckCthIPk4+ykuTVi1eH06NL0CARxHhcxcUoHOWlmxfF7A== Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rse@rfc-editor.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2014-07-12 11:25, Julian Reschke wrote: > Below are some thoughts about how the errata system could be made more > useful; note that this isn't about the process but just about the > information offered by the RFC Editor web site: > > 1) Each erratum should have a stable URI that can be used for citations. > > 2) For each RFC, there should be a machine-readable (*) HTTP resource > (**) offering status information about the set of erratas present for > that RFC. The minimal information about each erratum would be ID and/or > URI, status, and the section number it applies to (when available). > Extra points for date information and maybe a title. > > (*) Optimally both JSON and XML. The former is good for JS running in > browsers, the latter fits better into document production toolchains > starting with XML anyway. > > (**) That implies proper CORS settings so that browsers can actually get > the information even when the origin of the document is different. > > Best regards, Julian OK, this was 2.5 years ago. People apparently agreed (and asked for even more). Heather, could you please provide some feedback? Best regards, Julian _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 8 07:08:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA23129BBB for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:08:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0bRZfjw5lS6R for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:08:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53FA0129BB7 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:08:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09006B8030C; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:08:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C56DB8030C for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:08:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yJx1Znwu6wQp for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B9A0B8030B for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.60.56] (142-254-101-176.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.101.176]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id v18F7XTR062815 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 08:07:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 142-254-101-176.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.101.176] claimed to be [10.32.60.56] From: "Paul Hoffman" To: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 07:08:45 -0800 Message-ID: <198B8E82-B049-4535-A854-8F5BFE55826D@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <49a49c57-14f5-0a38-698b-c6e1a9586bb5@gmx.de> References: <53C0FEEE.9060903@gmx.de> <49a49c57-14f5-0a38-698b-c6e1a9586bb5@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5319) Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 8 Feb 2017, at 2:22, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2014-07-12 11:25, Julian Reschke wrote: >> Below are some thoughts about how the errata system could be made >> more >> useful; note that this isn't about the process but just about the >> information offered by the RFC Editor web site: >> >> 1) Each erratum should have a stable URI that can be used for >> citations. >> >> 2) For each RFC, there should be a machine-readable (*) HTTP resource >> (**) offering status information about the set of erratas present for >> that RFC. The minimal information about each erratum would be ID >> and/or >> URI, status, and the section number it applies to (when available). >> Extra points for date information and maybe a title. >> >> (*) Optimally both JSON and XML. The former is good for JS running in >> browsers, the latter fits better into document production toolchains >> starting with XML anyway. >> >> (**) That implies proper CORS settings so that browsers can actually >> get >> the information even when the origin of the document is different. >> >> Best regards, Julian > > OK, this was 2.5 years ago. People apparently agreed (and asked for > even more). > > Heather, could you please provide some feedback? FWIW, I agree with #1 but think #2 is overkill and unlikely to be worth the effort. --Paul Hoffman _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 8 07:26:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA0F129BBD for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:26:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BVSvb3t2EaZK for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C186C120724 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70EDFB803EA; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:26:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6028AB803E9 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:26:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Of7l4MfB2BGC for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from miucha.iecc.com (abusenet-1-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1126::2]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06775B803E4 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 90493 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2017 15:26:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (64.57.183.18) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2017 15:26:36 -0000 Date: 8 Feb 2017 15:26:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20170208152614.14827.qmail@ary.lan> From: "John Levine" To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org In-Reply-To: <198B8E82-B049-4535-A854-8F5BFE55826D@vpnc.org> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" >>> 1) Each erratum should have a stable URI that can be used for >>> citations. That would be nice, and I expect pretty easy. This works now: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=nnnn Perhaps we could add an alternate URL with a slightly cleaner syntax and promise it's stable, e.g. https://www.rfc-editor.org/erratum/nnnn >>> 2) For each RFC, there should be a machine-readable (*) HTTP resource >>> (**) offering status information about the set of erratas present for >>> that RFC. That's not much harder. Agaim we already have this: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=nnnn The current result is formatted to look nice in a browser, but since it's all generated on the fly from a database, a cleaner URL that returned the result in XML or JSON would be straightforward. R's, John _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 8 07:53:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77FFD129C09 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:53:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kdQ46ts9Qv5H for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:53:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02691129BFF for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:53:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A780AB80F68; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:53:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D86B80F68 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:52:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aK5drSp2lRCn for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1B02B80F64 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([93.217.64.139]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MJFBe-1cYjOC3uLi-002qmg; Wed, 08 Feb 2017 16:52:43 +0100 To: John Levine , rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: <20170208152614.14827.qmail@ary.lan> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <4cc0cb68-b004-aafa-d91b-d3c6182f1cda@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 16:52:43 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170208152614.14827.qmail@ary.lan> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:W8G3m/bbtXkbrRxLhluc38+KXHgmgDxc+NoovH8Xi0Y68p7864u oiMAGs0XsTyZrHxKMQsl8OQZbW+W+KwzTPtx/ifcS4zGOMWhgD6JroyAKI2mqL5mM70zH/l KYeOQHkZFN6D2Fc6ph8PtcqnLnMqgaMpBmIGFypGntstFTOPKvfp1J43hOAoQm3OQfpSyfx KP0Q8Tb5LpAbKz36oa64A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:fi2Xe9S9rp4=:NRWndLEks8wAFJpZiKnIYN 16fBF3v1ZIx39GljJCTvBXnZySRSUNMMOF/hElMxHFaO+KMuFUi2vMhjiCEiu1BUIVrPS2AC0 xV43kFNUsRJEg0CoGkXc7lI+WTIzdCBejkW/Qc7XsAqCcbQw8gpRVO4RmnAQqZRYAABBRhkFs Mbj8NDUi5yLs6sZoLkwjUhwxFQHEXgkIDn4bYA6vYRzkyJzMu+D2yealGsw48fJxxyytL/4HM 1q4cEpjtpZf/4r7U2TmpYY817dMaLcZGX9ozZz2Fdb+jQEZ1tJODm8pB7UfXIGRc3tuR90Umb n4Z9mQx3PDduRuADi8KEFQvXMnBS4Ad/IKGs6iDu/aSAyMFb49RM2RaldWIelU0hfzEk89WjB RboZ5AY01FFNqtRA+ehvZxJl2myImLUxGXGD2XS/hdkYCVvg8iZVXdNtcME7KZ8v8gicURCgu 2duKBCTN5n8Y56yys12RHQ0zDm5ztfUIIMWk0+DNsZhD1qzHB3spCoztNfH7QX1WU5OjT9E68 xHCBcHAW5iTHIPOv2K1mCvBkicgicSCoELwEY95hHCICTntpdUkR3szI0R8Eswx3asbXxqQre aYAlZh19w+ABdvXW3QHsXvr8XB0qqVXdTx9vgLjR3dKSFt4yggY80r5ji1XSQ9ch/JhVRz0O0 Za6tYvrphnsvKAbkgUI18FytZv3lD62RNpjglT8E82+5U0M6wVivsW7RJPepSg11gn7OR64md xkszrj/NRIcwkFty4ME/gpFi5XvpwUWySXsA3OrjabqyBsrglMlhCLSIGrH4Lnz/jTFlmm4y/ fjC1I1B6Ml2HbQSXAgGs9Bu0Wv714LVlz17sb9uOQxO/VFR78pHJAgzG9S/f2AlKTNN05YKvr vG05kv4OWbBLy9g4MHLMte64Zs7e6V4OOGiZKs14k3HbMlBVEHjUqnhYBpGAlcHFp4reqeb0u tOnMox2w4cH/jzB3F4pUXIS4Cu3ApzcQCtRKSYMn9m9eGa5UmaSQJ+ZtpVgK+VDYzzXKeRLrt skWXlIiHdDMwKwBit47WAz0= Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2017-02-08 16:26, John Levine wrote: >>>> 1) Each erratum should have a stable URI that can be used for >>>> citations. > > That would be nice, and I expect pretty easy. This works now: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=nnnn > > Perhaps we could add an alternate URL with a slightly cleaner syntax > and promise it's stable, e.g. > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/erratum/nnnn Right. We already have a URI, but in the past we've been told it can't be used in citation because it wasn't stable :-). >>>> 2) For each RFC, there should be a machine-readable (*) HTTP resource >>>> (**) offering status information about the set of erratas present for >>>> that RFC. > > That's not much harder. Agaim we already have this: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=nnnn > > The current result is formatted to look nice in a browser, but since > it's all generated on the fly from a database, a cleaner URL that > returned the result in XML or JSON would be straightforward. Indeed. Something like this is needed so that HTML versions of RFCs can display up-to-date errata information. Best regards, Julian _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 8 15:41:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FEE312A119 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UWECjf_8bfDi for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDEF71294EF for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F01B813C8; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27D5B813C9 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hVT-pLGB3vJ8 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6B1CB813BC for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A594E1E5665 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bTDsiESI62Q2 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from Heathers-MacBook-Pro.local (c-50-159-75-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [50.159.75.65]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80BC91E55DE for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:25 -0800 (PST) To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: <53C0FEEE.9060903@gmx.de> <49a49c57-14f5-0a38-698b-c6e1a9586bb5@gmx.de> From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:41:41 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <49a49c57-14f5-0a38-698b-c6e1a9586bb5@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2/8/17 2:22 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2014-07-12 11:25, Julian Reschke wrote: >> Below are some thoughts about how the errata system could be made more >> useful; note that this isn't about the process but just about the >> information offered by the RFC Editor web site: >> >> 1) Each erratum should have a stable URI that can be used for citations. >> >> 2) For each RFC, there should be a machine-readable (*) HTTP resource >> (**) offering status information about the set of erratas present for >> that RFC. The minimal information about each erratum would be ID and/or >> URI, status, and the section number it applies to (when available). >> Extra points for date information and maybe a title. >> >> (*) Optimally both JSON and XML. The former is good for JS running in >> browsers, the latter fits better into document production toolchains >> starting with XML anyway. >> >> (**) That implies proper CORS settings so that browsers can actually get >> the information even when the origin of the document is different. >> >> Best regards, Julian > > OK, this was 2.5 years ago. People apparently agreed (and asked for even > more). > > Heather, could you please provide some feedback? > Hi Julian, I think the suggestions are doable, though I'll defer to the developer when we have one working on the system. We need to do at least some basic updates in order to support the new formats, and I'll see if one or both of these suggestions can fit into that work. If either turn out to be a bigger piece of work, then we'll need to hold off until we have the resources to work on it. Right now, most of our available funds and developer time are working on format related tools. -Heather _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 9 10:47:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959EE12957E for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:47:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mMAvjUy7yY92 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F92D12958E for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2183B800F0; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:47:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE052B800F0; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:47:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xk82HkYwMgmT; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FC16B800B8; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:47:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.99.73]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Mhej1-1cpyUw2RKV-00Mp9n; Thu, 09 Feb 2017 19:47:33 +0100 To: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" , rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: <53C0FEEE.9060903@gmx.de> <49a49c57-14f5-0a38-698b-c6e1a9586bb5@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <782376ec-3b4e-9bbd-e2c0-18c60b3ea20b@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 19:47:33 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:HC6/xrhT/hbtzPSbOAxpI4JOWQT03aQWfvfxoUWgK4zA9bh/9wo gsNoAJeA4fCA775nEIkCDnlzHL8IGYovy6fwSElma4v3+XI7fIzFs5rqAS9ZtFiI57Ki0w5 aeVGY+dtuaivK8eSw+NruZXaZ0Ese+Cj15jPUQUJ+32k2rV0NfZ7kv3/1cifCx766ZI/4Kt Q3f1rxjTI10qL90+JYQIg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:L9F8T9bwffg=:KVyNoGNt9hqX4jgUExn6OS 8n/7m13Dvxy9qobv0bBEkLsQgybG3ISo++Cy5X6jRHne5nugFPHczNmgBEYRo/2kutnwa6s4p JhhM2VcodZLoycReulWUzvNPQwqXBNhKP7IAGUxi3Lx8aFg5rpNIXx9HdvwtYTE3x2vDAO9qy BnWPKGBfV1t5Jug5VcmGAI9NmoIxPmg6EIdeY+EISARjgpPphQaejYqTeuWdHrvpuUSHy7Z6F ex0tK0mFjODtu7KwDJHw3uOCt6zn4dGoqhhrqLqWqeqHKrAFvXHaxUSn2zXX/SzclJkl+5SHY 7AjsBnwvi91xufpK6k/U646IFuPq15uNyG46WN2vyxlwXVGNnp1nf+E0o1rc30W+NFXNtLaLl S+o4WPUrFIuKqF4CjZnxMKt4/PVxC4oIrZxVjmm+xMkFyilyW0uB+56nsI2mytw5dMbHSgOWr 3d1lCrnvg//06qbsZ00/QGZcxcew8yohgdCxdOz8WNr/pms7LBpENeh9H/UiP5pIqdfxKMo+e lEnN07uqfTSJXyts1jYUKDQd5Q7nnsgQIIbsmB9vlytf4aa/tPUBnnU/kXxAlqOEhCxqiRKQe q5wBX7Xpm9dU1JosNZf2702z6SAgadLjavfWMyZaaYtkA2EBq2zqXnh30CYUkat6nvvcTFLNV FHBGIFAKTy//+mYwLOSiFtbm5CNAfcMf0Nj0FrYLPsqX7Yt1sWqIjB6Cz1glRnQyAWB8D8dGl Pe1xSrYlFX/HwPmxkw1X7CDEcs96HsGFfrgW2KEJYs0cjctOwfeQGHzSwE4v9dc9xu8GYVoka jwilqkh Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2017-02-09 00:41, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > ... > Hi Julian, > > I think the suggestions are doable, though I'll defer to the developer > when we have one working on the system. We need to do at least some > basic updates in order to support the new formats, and I'll see if one > or both of these suggestions can fit into that work. If either turn out > to be a bigger piece of work, then we'll need to hold off until we have > the resources to work on it. Right now, most of our available funds and > developer time are working on format related tools. > > -Heather > ... FWIW, setting up stable URIs might be as easy as editing the Apache config. That said, somebody needs to give the errata page some maintenance, see . For instance, the response is marked to be non-cacheable. Best regards, Julian _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 9 12:28:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58A9129C6B for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:28:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ClcM-_bqj_Ha for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FD131295CD for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39303B80FE6; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:28:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C78BB80FE6 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:28:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id McISQLCQ30bl for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from miucha.iecc.com (abusenet-1-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1126::2]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0027CB80F54 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:28:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 68894 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2017 20:28:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (64.57.183.18) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2017 20:28:21 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2017 20:27:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20170209202759.20043.qmail@ary.lan> From: "John Levine" To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org In-Reply-To: <782376ec-3b4e-9bbd-e2c0-18c60b3ea20b@gmx.de> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: julian.reschke@gmx.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" >FWIW, setting up stable URIs might be as easy as editing the Apache config. Making the stable URIs work is likely a few lines of mod_rewrite. The harder part is making sure that the relevant people know that those URIs have to keep working the next time someone works on the errata. R's, John _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sun Feb 12 03:34:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD181294CE for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:34:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UsZp3lkopKtr for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:34:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 297241294C1 for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:34:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CF7B80FFE; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:34:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E42B80FFE for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:34:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0pSNe-Q4-z96 for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61360B80FDA for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 03:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.115.200]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M8MyE-1cQJgA3mbq-00vyBL; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:33:53 +0100 To: John Levine , rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: <20170208152614.14827.qmail@ary.lan> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <8640fa4b-2ae0-e426-84d5-9b48d654f8ec@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:33:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170208152614.14827.qmail@ary.lan> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:SK7QtukcejuCi7rHLANjiCYkE5K7XURTTEOh/1fQ2U7JXujlNcO 9wacCLBMgLDiJcExASHUpbqvAXu8nNmu8opqBUiyJmnRLY0skF/g28deBwYTqHp3qE+vhKc HhQ6HptgM8gW0F8ZnxZPAwycvgs8iH+TbG7tu21cTHw3yJjET3CjqlcliYx0gzO9hM7KOY6 uhN2u2xsmLOY7MLmVy8qQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:3nLCnVW2ces=:JZGciYYZltyONnMdEcICLg tmM+DVfLJPYb2tTisoCn4n4X5GO17nHcLhv35nT7NJP1mpmtN690WmZD9qzVqnwVWSa7b+kGh gvnS/ikbjvrTGarZCVJ2PgFJr8Yv3MowgCaKHwKfVyc7mw0MAatq2vHl0GAjy42h/rtayK3i0 Lqhhje2sFcRpDvX7lwCrpfHvcoGTx2qcOw3OXJgrveke5RW4cmKmWNDm/dObKYlJbWnoOV91O CaUo2RHKF5Gr4PDBFIjhVzbzhBxwCUsxXXiKUwscCNMUT44TmZflsouOsPZ6wjRmEmVD8AL+3 4EyMACnwf9x8/TjEB7dj4mgKq66v6N8YBTmK1l8n/UI5kF2lYve51UeHlfLxzSA1O8lTIWuvk sVH6h76xCAQr/2lEAG6j1WnhQHNHIFH5bwC9T6nS8QpS7f6YNBnwzEHR6dOUiAKdZPYSRgv72 1ir1G9Hk/kdTRsUu0L6dYmsTxkkl6kbwzkFfTzMWR44DW/EbkotlwMBZQwEf5rPkzhP7OKBvl JNcW8cEHMCZdC109Ajyk8kzEYY3+K1aEps+qNA9NMxyx2tZtD4EzqZRUkohmqJ3XR11WuTTfM /uxBv3+EQ7+bz0E01dBYN5zCqEHd0lzhPIrLK6ZRTgDVHY+VlRbr0OKeaUqvIM4p6HnN555HS y69ev8JlgCkjVOdgdmqst0rRYW2pM6kc9l3tNZWL95fH8K2vFb3qdK2/ni/9UcEzFMhQ/GfdQ 3zkgEcItgUyGdOksd7cNb0c8s76Q+5gEVu5YAqr4vtKJ/cnrB/avNdW1x/WMPMAQkEVxeaeUL DzQ1s9hidXidJ5lNMWxCgrqBrkIBtnNeNNEx7uTFKdwuDQjFctJw6ZhRpw541Zqku0tGzc23p p3JWC8V82gc4AtrXkiz7cbm6AR+OCkE8cH1rXah913aUKAKti/NBIRnaR9bMiqoe+MwLor60Y 9mvdMQqZiA/clSHROpjM4PNztyOsNy/neOs6+fXPVQkQqFIht/ysGnTtw7x92SGzjtnug+HKL HPPewgL6U+ytIVLQFyTptDA= Subject: Re: [rfc-i] some thoughts about errata X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2017-02-08 16:26, John Levine wrote: > ... >>>> 2) For each RFC, there should be a machine-readable (*) HTTP resource >>>> (**) offering status information about the set of erratas present for >>>> that RFC. > > That's not much harder. Agaim we already have this: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=nnnn > > The current result is formatted to look nice in a browser, but since > it's all generated on the fly from a database, a cleaner URL that > returned the result in XML or JSON would be straightforward. > ... Right. In the meantime I put something together to scrape data from these pages (see ), and used it (optionally) in rfc2629.xslt. Example: Best regards, Julian _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 15 15:04:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259C8129B8E for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G6DoYl--1dYL for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFCFB129BA4 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB13B819E8; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A680B819E8 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mGR7McHiQr_E for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FEB0B819E6 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619CD1E567B for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:03:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7VNJXOFaRpRP for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:03:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Heathers-MacBook-Pro.local (c-50-159-75-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [50.159.75.65]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C5B51E5679 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:03:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Message-ID: <16b1de26-942a-3ab3-06e5-6f74121d5503@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:04:29 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" Hello all, I've heard feedback both for and against printing RFCs to paper, and discussed this further with the RSOC. Most of the comments in support focus on the expectation of low financial costs to print. The cost considerations that people have mentioned, however, do not take into account the potential cost of recovery in such a situation where we would need to restore the entire body of work from paper copies. The cost of restoration from paper is likely to be a much higher cost--with that cost increasing with every RFC published--whereas the likelihood of being in a situation where such a wholesale recovery is necessary is vanishingly small. The rough consensus from the RSOC is that the value of printing does not match the costs involved. Unlike many years ago when additional digital archives did not exist and we did in fact have to rely on paper, we now have additional repositories around the world, including formal archive partnerships like the agreement with the National Library of Sweden, to informal repositories like the copies many IETF-ers keep on their servers, desktops, and laptops. So, while some consider printing RFCs an inexpensive type of insurance, looking at this from a perspective of risk management, printing RFCs for archival purposes no longer makes sense. The full costs of both the printing and the recovery are high. The likelihood of needing this type of information repository in the future is low. We have a much wider range of partnerships with others maintaining full copies of the RFC repository than ever before. We will do better putting time and resources towards managing our digital assets properly and editing documents rather than handling paper. Thank you for your feedback, Heather Flanagan _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 15 20:17:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F24B91293E1 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:17:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6rutM8S50es for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DAE31293FF for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53BC1B80F47; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 824FBB80F46 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:17:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hspC0dhtKQnJ for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from miucha.iecc.com (abusenet-1-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1126::2]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35D68B80F47 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:17:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 74272 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2017 04:17:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (64.57.183.18) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2017 04:17:03 -0000 Date: 16 Feb 2017 04:16:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20170216041641.2990.qmail@ary.lan> From: "John Levine" To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org In-Reply-To: <16b1de26-942a-3ab3-06e5-6f74121d5503@rfc-editor.org> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rse@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" In article <16b1de26-942a-3ab3-06e5-6f74121d5503@rfc-editor.org> you write: > The cost >considerations that people have mentioned, however, do not take into >account the potential cost of recovery in such a situation where we >would need to restore the entire body of work from paper copies. I get the impression that there are some radically incompatible impressions of what paper copies would be for. Since it was my suggestion in the first place, here's some scenarios. Making and archiving paper copies is not intended to be a huge effort. Once or twice a year you print two copies of the XML and a page formatted version of recent RFCs on archival paper with stable toner or ink, and mail them to two libraries that are physically far apart, perhaps Stanford in California and the Deutsches Museum in Munich, where they file them away in boxes as they do with their other collections of "papers of donor X." It would be nice if someone were to OCR a few sheets of the printouts as they arrive, just to make sure they weren't totally botched, but I wouldn't think that would cost much, and as likely as not the libraries would do it for us. There are a lot of scenarios short of complete disaster where a paper archive could be useful. Perhaps, digital archivists have carefully copied and recopied everything periodically to ever more modern media to keep them readable. At some point they discover that the XML file for RFC 15,432 contains the XML for RFC 15,431 (two obscure and obsolete RFCs, which is why it took so long to notice), and since the files were confused three generations ago, the digital versions of 15,432 are unrecoverable. Or the archivists are surprised to discover that their copies of RFC 16,824 don't match, apparently because someone there were two forks in github and the version numbers don't match the dates and are out of sequence. A peek at the paper would help figure out which was the right one. As far as recovering everything from scratch, I agree that the chances of needing to do that while there is still a budget for the RFC Editor are remote. But if we look ahead a few years, the IETF was disbanded in 2066 because they'd still never figured out how to make IPv6 IoT stuff secure, and everyone had moved on to GGDR* anyway. The Internet Society disbanded shortly afterwards, since it had been on autopilot for a decade, and the revenue from the remaining 12,000 registrants in .ORG couldn't even pay for a part time director. So there is nobody and no budget to keep copying the bits, and they rot. Now it is 2116, and a grad student is working on the history of networking in the early 21st century. The digital archives are all dead, but I'd think that there's a pretty good chance that at least one set of the file boxes of paper is still readable, and in that era, the implants in her eyeballs can OCR them as fast as she can turn the pages. So that's why, even with no budget for recovery from paper, it makes sense. Please reconsider. R's, John * - Great Grand Daughter of RINA _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 16 14:12:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99151129577 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=tereschau.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KRILG8Vo-mx1 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19893129556 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66E0B80382; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFF8B80382 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=tereschau.net Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8i2cC7lzE2dl for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x229.google.com (mail-ot0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::229]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 210BDB80381 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x229.google.com with SMTP id 32so20795296oth.3 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tereschau.net; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=H64E1jGyWfWvWmi5zQFvO+scjDbDDxc5v22LuqntuQM=; b=Lh2zpxOMWg26KvoQwY1A4cFtpwevf5CEIAxxOm7qr5i1gXBpLGrG7cixE/as5pjEYT ZOBzGHTBcR9V1hMEqLILr1/mm5yWjhX7MFvyiI1/sERNqUKhu9gAetosYr5ThAmgCPgW zRD8NAdUAMhKbkClGEBlKsMlEf4J7z75EdaYcxI9r8SW8KFErEVy2DoM7hIH/QLQ9Tgj KDaGTM2Y1NIUWCCEmxI4psv+7Rv9ztkSALJDW/CbAgq7cjuf9Hz0BATMAfS6cZp5Tg6N 42FepmvBvweMUbL8qt2o92XSYghxS6jUpHeLhTM01J5Ib40DqqUNIyLiJRPz88gNKJ+7 bqwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=H64E1jGyWfWvWmi5zQFvO+scjDbDDxc5v22LuqntuQM=; b=HfarlTQj53QLf2k7u38rySZRzYNjWxzTaq0T0X18XMwSDEUr0+04OtYPHLfxg+N0G9 hg5rPcJRmAhXC/JV3caJv5KA07sIjtvXQnv76xOGHG7E4ZrNgAbX0HYLkfja1fX03e1X xtTAUByiP5uVgeVQvvygrDNaqWTAFAaysiiTZW6GgrkaXmWLwqH7xaD/xZQXw5HGU8ie O+JemdJNYi0qv7MKwfqGLKHGvZcF4CYu+Cl6ULxc5AYU2rT4yTwpkGCSKez1GEx67OQ4 3HFtFCPdU1FRI5SMGe+7t0reXqxXl0bnnAU9IH/WkH9ORBsAndWRSNzSNn0Eht6R3F5j eAYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39kkP787ve7YtoeDF0DQqB9Bnup5pchJr9CmdoC3oRuYVylXqjN1otXLKc+4IL91DedbFvDe+VWLpgyLmUMj X-Received: by 10.157.49.38 with SMTP id e35mr2358848otc.196.1487283124118; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.191.39 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:12:03 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Partridge Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:12:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0222167278408128506==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" --===============0222167278408128506== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114160704b3c570548ad16b4 --001a114160704b3c570548ad16b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm with John. There are many good reasons to use paper (such as we've successfully used it as an archival technology for roughly 2000 years -- show me a digital system with a similar track record). Thanks! Craig -- ***** Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities and mailing lists. For Raytheon business, please email: craig. partridge@raytheon.com --001a114160704b3c570548ad16b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm with John.=C2=A0 There are many good reasons to us= e paper (such as we've successfully used it as
an archival technolo= gy for roughly 2000 years -- show me a digital system with a similar track = record).

Thanks!

Craig

--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
*****
Craig Partridge's e= mail account for professional society activities and mailing lists.
For Raytheon business, please email: craig.partridge@raytheon.com
--001a114160704b3c570548ad16b4-- --===============0222167278408128506== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest --===============0222167278408128506==-- From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 16 14:41:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5336A126B6D for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9oelxYxmu8V0 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BD77124281 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33880B80FB4; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93AE7B80FB4 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lShHcR3Uk5IR for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 940E7B80FB0 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.9.160.81] (nib.isi.edu [128.9.160.81]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v1GMfCWk002786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:12 -0800 (PST) To: Craig Partridge , rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: From: Joe Touch Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:41:11 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2/16/2017 2:12 PM, Craig Partridge wrote: > I'm with John. There are many good reasons to use paper (such as > we've successfully used it as > an archival technology for roughly 2000 years -- show me a digital > system with a similar track record). That's going to be hard to *prove* for another 2000 years. I see the point about full archival technology, but I don't think we should be second-guessing professional librarians. A box of wood pulp, even on acid-free paper, also has the potential for being destroyed by fire, water, bugs, etc. IMO, the proposed approach of offloading this issue to professional librarians seems more than sufficient. If THEY decide that printing out reams of pulp and boxing it up is the way to go, then they can make that decision. I don't think we need to second guess them. Joe _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 16 14:43:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E9D129526 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:43:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sA9MAD44X7qB for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4B4B124281 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAB7B8025E; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:43:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827BFB8025E for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:43:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m2Q8qgCJGg-d for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 867A3B8025B for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from Orochi.local (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v1GMhZXH042709 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Feb 2017 16:43:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Orochi.local To: Craig Partridge , rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <1cb10826-9a9f-6916-8925-005139c1d9b0@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 16:43:30 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2/16/17 16:12, Craig Partridge wrote: > I'm with John. There are many good reasons to use paper (such as > we've successfully used it as > an archival technology for roughly 2000 years -- show me a digital > system with a similar track record). Or a computer printout that old. I have laser printouts from college on which the toner has largely detached from the page -- and I'm not even into three digits old, much less four. We haven't priced out hiring monks to transcribe RFCs onto vellum, so the performance of 2000-year-old manuscripts is hardly relevant. /a _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 16 14:46:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843A91295D5 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:46:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.092 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.092 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=yitter.info header.b=C1hMDsJC; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=yitter.info header.b=Gur/XKUM Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RmojpLyU2Imf for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56A55129526 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4363B80FCD; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:46:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC742B80FCD for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=C1hMDsJC; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=Gur/XKUM Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hd7poWCiq521 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.yitter.info (mx4.yitter.info [159.203.56.111]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1505EB80FC9 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A877BD554 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:45:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1487285152; bh=+Ex91LCdawauWFgMzJ8JlV2/DRQlLuJtwzufjMZtxQM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=C1hMDsJC0cW7dkLhFEvBjsrw0T64Xd5bEPh5smEKQJ3XKtwXtvEk7/bGKP7GI3lbA tYKi+3jqaI2m9XZQrJgREknMqiukkO1ABpxbl4eB7AWdEDYgwkTR4FGZvBvzTRSmhF 7if4hOAcFIAelpipXou7mPInDzfPf8YiNAszFCnI= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca Received: from mx4.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx4.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cnUJBK4pOhFy for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:45:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:45:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1487285151; bh=+Ex91LCdawauWFgMzJ8JlV2/DRQlLuJtwzufjMZtxQM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Gur/XKUMX5ARDOZyydJjT+IGhNzKaMpgNUHGCTxrWpCRvW8c3RCOS67G6OBLovHK4 QxetS4QUYX2fxPdruzX/2KHj6E/udfwapXljBSau055OlzFagLLEHJR5QQatsc3LsG TuU/wJ8Oppd/4J8P7k8Ls/TW3N4ctC7OEXow5mPg= From: Andrew Sullivan To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Message-ID: <20170216224549.GH13263@mx4.yitter.info> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 02:41:11PM -0800, Joe Touch wrote: > IMO, the proposed approach of offloading this issue to professional > librarians seems more than sufficient. If THEY decide that printing out > reams of pulp and boxing it up is the way to go, then they can make that > decision. I don't think we need to second guess them. I agree with this, very strongly. If a bunch of people came along to tell us how much our network technology could be improved on the basis of their own opinions, however well informed, we might point out that we have a large community fed by many different experiences. Why is this expertise in an area not our own any different? A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 16 14:49:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5385C129632 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=tereschau.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3fRPkiah0o_y for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEAC3124281 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81112B80FFB; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ACEEB80FFB for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=tereschau.net Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q1fPLNYL6P8m for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x232.google.com (mail-ot0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::232]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83A39B80FFA for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x232.google.com with SMTP id t47so21335708ota.1 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tereschau.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8bLunWFXD73YqjfXFwes3bN6AayJeR/UD9LRdQrjCkQ=; b=dRjFeyoid/ihytjEif4/KiCZnjcNInvXoR5FmsE6GO+katHvuM69ACw4PrU/IbWgHW Oab2AxXT6gKZrfyHL6yWeex8LoEnuBem/8nT9AkYOcej/2E0eBQb1uNBxZ8FrLmBwl9C 1N+BLKGCxMAgnbtqKkeffnbtwBih9Yit5F9MMzxI4AbOH5pUYA1yvCqklayyD54BElio V3ErzcJd9Ab9RXx+7UtrITx04PYEQx/GEt6pZ5kSxsD4WlNN0flE6Mv019e8c79uehfY fNFINxzguDbxzwfNGF6jrwLtg8xU7y1l2Ren/6N24C0QtVqDWr8cAoow2yM2wFS3tyyY WmZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8bLunWFXD73YqjfXFwes3bN6AayJeR/UD9LRdQrjCkQ=; b=UqW42wtYRPP1/zeKjZdquh3UYZea0cfLhQ8FILPo7XNINkt9AXmV1iYCEUQlIsRi++ oxQh04ZpeVQVep3QcY6/yqjAiL+PKD8xKN9ny3QmlLo67k6TiSQC88t4N8DB8CGMoLQb 6Q3Bda2xspFOUCkGPHcsVx2H3gY0DHbgZCOiiXXB1Jo7bZ/+oW02royjVzGgBALWdEwo B5slCKiNu7NTzpZP0k1SQE3ZRa1t1rkmwdmMBdIz4njXtFy9flOSeXicTMF08zkqsgjj 48mvLxvBjPsJ9ptHfzg+2FH9Hj0Gik73Wq1MfuPkmxmO/QcvWBYCRCpsXuEUo7cQl0a5 MINA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39k7p3QMwMr2qF1m3cqLYk54GFDkNxYXniJ1j9NYU7JMFZwEo0/cWAz8sQQfZhbUcBg3iccTI7m/RedIKWlY X-Received: by 10.157.48.134 with SMTP id s6mr833195otc.151.1487285381563; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.191.39 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:49:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Craig Partridge Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:49:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: Joe Touch Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1235741252949442640==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" --===============1235741252949442640== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f4030435cbbcd9155a0548ad9cdf --f4030435cbbcd9155a0548ad9cdf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Joe: Keep in mind that I do communicate occasionally with professional archivists. They remain torn between the need to try to find a way to save digital artifacts and a strong sense that their solutions are likely to fail. I agree that asking a professional librarian is a fine solution. But I would ask them the question in the form: would you prefer printed copies on archival paper or digital copy? (As opposed to the -- "can you archive digital material?" -- to which they feel obliged to try to say yes, but may prefer to say no). Craig On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > On 2/16/2017 2:12 PM, Craig Partridge wrote: > > I'm with John. There are many good reasons to use paper (such as > > we've successfully used it as > > an archival technology for roughly 2000 years -- show me a digital > > system with a similar track record). > > That's going to be hard to *prove* for another 2000 years. > > I see the point about full archival technology, but I don't think we > should be second-guessing professional librarians. A box of wood pulp, > even on acid-free paper, also has the potential for being destroyed by > fire, water, bugs, etc. > > IMO, the proposed approach of offloading this issue to professional > librarians seems more than sufficient. If THEY decide that printing out > reams of pulp and boxing it up is the way to go, then they can make that > decision. I don't think we need to second guess them. > > Joe > -- ***** Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities and mailing lists. For Raytheon business, please email: craig. partridge@raytheon.com --f4030435cbbcd9155a0548ad9cdf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joe:

Keep in mind that I do communicate occasion= ally with professional
archivists.=C2=A0 They remain torn between the n= eed to try to find a way to
save digital artifacts and a strong s= ense that their solutions are likely to
fail.

I agree that asking a professional librarian is a fine solution.=C2= =A0 But I would
ask them the question in the form: would you pref= er printed copies on
archival paper or digital copy? (As opposed = to the -- "can you archive
digital material?" -- to whi= ch they feel obliged to try to say yes, but may
prefer to say no)= .

Craig

=
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Joe Touch <touch@i= si.edu> wrote:


On 2/16/2017 2:12 PM, Craig Partridge wrote:
> I'm with John.=C2=A0 There are many good reasons to use paper (suc= h as
> we've successfully used it as
> an archival technology for roughly 2000 years -- show me a digital
> system with a similar track record).

That's going to be hard to *prove* for another 2000 years.

I see the point about full archival technology, but I don't think we should be second-guessing professional librarians. A box of wood pulp,
even on acid-free paper, also has the potential for being destroyed by
fire, water, bugs, etc.

IMO, the proposed approach of offloading this issue to professional
librarians seems more than sufficient. If THEY decide that printing out
reams of pulp and boxing it up is the way to go, then they can make that decision. I don't think we need to second guess them.

Joe



--
*****
Craig Partridge's email a= ccount for professional society activities and mailing lists.
For= Raytheon business, please email: craig.partridge@raytheon.com
--f4030435cbbcd9155a0548ad9cdf-- --===============1235741252949442640== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest --===============1235741252949442640==-- From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 16 14:52:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E5412955E for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1lZVPWca2_10 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30EDA124281 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0DDB8100C; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161CBB8100C for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WphpDFHj-N4B for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05B01B81009 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.9.160.81] (nib.isi.edu [128.9.160.81]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v1GMq2Ac004960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:02 -0800 (PST) To: Craig Partridge References: From: Joe Touch Message-ID: <862cfe32-4b3e-e737-c649-dfbb18201e96@isi.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:52:01 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" Hi, Craig, On 2/16/2017 2:49 PM, Craig Partridge wrote: > Hi Joe: > > Keep in mind that I do communicate occasionally with professional > archivists. As do I, as recently as last week FWIW... > They remain torn between the need to try to find a way to > save digital artifacts and a strong sense that their solutions are > likely to > fail. > > I agree that asking a professional librarian is a fine solution. But > I would > ask them the question in the form: would you prefer printed copies on > archival paper or digital copy? (As opposed to the -- "can you archive > digital material?" -- to which they feel obliged to try to say yes, > but may > prefer to say no). Then perhaps the way forward is to suggest that the RFC Editor make the RFCs available for archive at multiple sites, but to let those sites determine the best way to preserve that material. Joe _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Thu Feb 16 20:03:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0442B129951 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:03:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=dcrocker.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZHnweQzNNoNS for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4136B1294E3 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED513B81CA8; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:03:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61A5B81CA8 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:03:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dcrocker.net Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wCANPl1DYduN for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:02:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B827B81CA6 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:02:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.168] (76-218-8-128.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.128]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id v1H44csQ016450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:04:39 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dcrocker.net; s=default; t=1487304279; bh=8a7JqmWuPOI5aN4iLlN1BBixtjvkafQ1akmY18W0fsE=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=WC1qXCKOowwGqeptMBf9GEgPkrj9Ct21T/p48Ka7dcjUY3Cbiino4b1F3S8Ba1IDt BmMGivOokjdkeLiGZUV9JeEr57GpeSWcjmVJy3vdhNxyxsFdkQAMSyL+4rm1b/5Ghe 7C/xF3sSmx8eVve3IxMvg7QvcJTAi9uYwFcnr/vw= References: To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking Message-ID: <1f50207c-ddf6-fd23-dcef-cdbc85dadf17@dcrocker.net> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:02:41 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Paper as an archival format for RFCs X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 2/16/2017 2:49 PM, Craig Partridge wrote: > Keep in mind that I do communicate occasionally with professional > archivists. They remain torn between the need to try to find a way to > save digital artifacts and a strong sense that their solutions are likely to > fail. > > I agree that asking a professional librarian is a fine solution. But I > would > ask them the question in the form: would you prefer printed copies on > archival paper or digital copy? (As opposed to the -- "can you archive > digital material?" -- to which they feel obliged to try to say yes, but may > prefer to say no). +1. And given the observed controversy, this means asking a number of independent archivists. I suggest then producing the union of their answers, not the intersection. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Mon Feb 20 22:52:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5957D129876 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:52:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.763 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.763 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.428, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ALFYZmUZn-AY for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:52:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C734C1296A4 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:52:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A523B801A6; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:52:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A54B801A4; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:52:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hS4iEpVDong9; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D033B801A3; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154861E569A; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:51:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X3tvrHeZr8Z6; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from Heathers-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [149.154.153.229]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9DF2B1E5698; Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:51:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 07:52:12 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1515733603565105306==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1515733603565105306== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E26535DD855DC4DE9663C5D8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E26535DD855DC4DE9663C5D8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, Back in December, you all had an opportunity to review the first draft of the CSS that will be applied to the HTML RFCs that will be produced by the RFC Editor when the new formats go live. Issues were collected in github, either by individuals who posted directly, or by me as I harvested issues out of various email threads. You can see the issues here: https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues Based on the issues collected (with some decisions from me where we had contradictory input) the CSS developer has built a second version of the CSS. You can see the new look here: https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/ One of the basic changes includes the addition of a very simple JavaScript was added to allow for a hamburger menu to appear when the screen is resized such that the ToC disappears. This JavaScript is not critical to the reading of the text, and so would be allowed. For the issues in github, the following actions were (or were not) taken: * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/17 o [DONE - set table p to margin 0] o Too much v-space in tables o NOTE: Seems like significant over-selection; would be better to select on a class. * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/16 o [DONE - fixed the lists] o Levels of indentations for lists from headings * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/15 o [WON'T DO - See #10] o Increase body indent from headings * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/10 o [DONE - indentation removed] o Don’t have body indent from headings o NOTE: is in contradiction to #15 * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/8 o [DONE] o Padding on aside too large (particularly vertically) o FIXED: remove most padding from aside. * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/7 o [NO CHANGE - kept as is, allowing columns for the Index section except on small devices] o Index in columns o NOTE: glad that this appears to be supported. I would like to keep columns. * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/6 o [DONE *- *fixed monospace font sizes] o Heading with a monospace item in it * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/4 o [DONE for small devices where the menu will hang over the page content; wide widths have no divider (to remain uncluttered)]** o Visual separation between draft and TOC * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/3 o [NO CHANGE - prefer the margin + border to ensure blockquote stands out] o Frame + border seems too much for blockquote * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/2 o [NO CHANGE - paragraph spacing easier to see using real examples of sample2.html and sample3.html - we should wait for feedback on this now that the community can see what the paragraph spacing looks like in practice] o Paragraph spacing too large * https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/1 o [DONE - headings decreased in size both in desktop and mobile versions] o Headings too large Please take a moment to look at the slightly updated design, and to post your feedback either to this list or directly to github. I’m expecting the third (and final, for now) set of changes to focus on polishing the details of the look and feel. Thank you for your time and attention! -- Heather Flanagan --------------E26535DD855DC4DE9663C5D8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+CiAgPGhlYWQ+CiAgICA8bWV0YSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PSJjb250ZW50LXR5cGUiIGNv bnRlbnQ9InRleHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD11dGYtOCI+CiAgICA8c3R5bGU+Ym9keXtmb250 LWZhbWlseTpIZWx2ZXRpY2EsQXJpYWw7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEzcHh9PC9zdHlsZT4KICA8L2hl YWQ+CiAgPGJvZHkgc3R5bGU9IndvcmQtd3JhcDogYnJlYWstd29yZDsgLXdlYmtpdC1uYnNw LW1vZGU6IHNwYWNlOwogICAgLXdlYmtpdC1saW5lLWJyZWFrOiBhZnRlci13aGl0ZS1zcGFj ZTsiIGJnY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiCiAgICB0ZXh0PSIjMDAwMDAwIj4KICAgIDxkaXYgaWQ9 ImJsb29wX2N1c3RvbWZvbnQiCiAgICAgIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LWZhbWlseTpIZWx2ZXRpY2Es QXJpYWw7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEzcHg7IGNvbG9yOgogICAgICByZ2JhKDAsMCwwLDEuMCk7IG1h cmdpbjogMHB4OyBsaW5lLWhlaWdodDogYXV0bzsiPkhlbGxvIGFsbCwKICAgICAgPHA+QmFj ayBpbiBEZWNlbWJlciwgeW91IGFsbCBoYWQgYW4gb3Bwb3J0dW5pdHkgdG8gcmV2aWV3IHRo ZQogICAgICAgIGZpcnN0IGRyYWZ0IG9mIHRoZSBDU1MgdGhhdCB3aWxsIGJlIGFwcGxpZWQg 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[73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g66sm8404920qkb.55.2017.02.21.07.21.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Feb 2017 07:21:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 10:21:01 -0500 Message-Id: <013D3DF8-3AB6-4E00-9456-6EF82D961DA3@fugue.com> References: To: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" One issue that I noticed when playing with sample 3 is that scrolling the table of contents starts scrolling the document when you get to the end. This is a bit of a usability problem, but I don't know if there's a way to fix it in the CSS. The reason it's a usability problem is that a single flick on the TOC gets you to the end, and the momentum carries over to the document, resulting in a substantial scroll of the document. The two should be completely independent; otherwise, the utility of the TOC is limited, because I'm going to tend to shy away from using it for fear of losing my place in the document. _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 21 13:29:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F614129CF2 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.088 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.088 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9xi8qhF9y-G7 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 971F0129CEF for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D080B817E3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0C7B817E3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yfca4MTsSCGJ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x242.google.com (mail-pg0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::242]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 024C2B81546; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x242.google.com with SMTP id z128so1321603pgb.3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SMxKerN7dek0csGgKVW06jWeJYf8/auMgEAkElAeibw=; b=CRakUwUFLCGV7iG4Pl77lwlaGQScsMYuF7+gCmqpP9/aCBTVnCgj/sHnQiIzerHE95 ksAb/tTceMscM/ndX4YPMQS2d7uLSK+X5qroE82zzCA5ilstJ0eQPFqHZiE82tsvMOp+ usf9e3FlVx0cjuefmS4s+UNYz6ngM4HKoX8JXErAjCnYD7WvctzeA6QXMs4f3GR2AGTv v9OI1cpf8xQ3BKy2AbgFNPVwkGZRcqtKK9bv9LZJGKrOXKZXrMfGDgDirGnM9tnaNP6g oG6lBgu0m57Lg06OLQ+f6n+qe8yaNiX33AeOx6BiofPBpnxJ6lSPwy+2HmmKAJBrl9Cn x9RQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=SMxKerN7dek0csGgKVW06jWeJYf8/auMgEAkElAeibw=; b=Ti+DIPX/eiyg77+wS4VNEHTCAHhnFBlIha+W/f9P0oCQGtLrDVCLhm0PsZl0AlJq9e UjFCiOm/m5BlradZcQKaKdmWAyRtNkXxZD0jV0pKNG0+jaS5aHSiyq9R4g5pYN2Tfc2F IAHWNft0eIiMg/MPclCXYndPQAsAuc57FA0FcHKXv/V1q1aogv+bpzSQPkJ84mXzlLcX tzpwYP6BgWIUoVviL38m0600R253UgpDD40I63sEtLwvpJ8r0LqKldd5nBo0xPZgjliD MoXdcb54G9VxFgY6IE3AHGBrn3aFCw5tQRyF7Oius8Qg55bBItM0r05RZqUra0Fmdn61 xacw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39m06uOXDoPYz/K6/QriuJbiHdf0ctibDeJjkc0frUWR7TEnI4TYdjHwWp1ECPTUAQ== X-Received: by 10.84.218.129 with SMTP id r1mr42009876pli.6.1487712555330; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.216.38.132] (sc-cs-567-laptop.uoa.auckland.ac.nz. [130.216.38.132]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w124sm10634760pfw.29.2017.02.21.13.29.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:29:14 -0800 (PST) To: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" , rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <73d43a78-0c89-4c23-65bb-71778036f094@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:29:17 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" A tiny detail: in the References sections, the citation labels are right-aligned, which looks strange and makes visual searching slightly painful. I think they should be left-aligned. Example: https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/sample2-v2.html#n-informative There are also two specific issues with the very first reference there: 1) the infamous double-comma problem; I hoped we would be rid of that 2) the reference label is too long. At least there should be a style guide warning about this. Regards Brian _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 21 14:34:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B2C129D6E for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zew7_O6SeC1n for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E7AB129D4B for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F5AB81259; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDCAB81253; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pQUT7afQA_rI; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C6D0B81259; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id 65so11893817oig.1; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MuU3iP00AHNEN27poL8o4fxT6ZHZ9XgKAlPj88qLYc0=; b=NRItMvE6P/AgDOutWCrl1BmCxrR5i6XYN/hBvzfH5szjmfN2xIpLCPIDjgpfOxUBPr 6iEi+M7QR9QelJSxo0dCp+qKMJvEl03kLZMVh2Cge1far3iZQlLHNIYBcK06+PWeat6L oFMXLZQK+2sTzATyMsM2dY6XbghgfJOUq4Vxma7/QkjptYLkE+TQfNmnw6Fnn+oUAFnH goV056v7lLlchEUkzoUODEW5rR5YaN3hOwMW6Gu4xKCMlDHJRSl1yhkS1gJhsA+Ebhj4 f4QVySdUndSd4EmCkcQcnrvOh7pX5QOTJfQ025GEzqcxuaAP4Ln6XR7MsLsbloUqRE/G 191Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MuU3iP00AHNEN27poL8o4fxT6ZHZ9XgKAlPj88qLYc0=; b=IlMehx0OJrRGd0xYlkbZzTSUd71fygqNE6w45hxF35RNIrr8jolSkRBxtwgha7tyyj UPFrgFQIzbJUePLlReXsSEdh0qCLMOyYwczpT3xXUl51StdfyGmGrVa7tRngbRGrX98z lKQEtn3t2tl2SU2Q3GOJD9CoySrOGm3cPcUknF2FtxVfMQgLXXxoCOgiahq1caCZWSL+ zJPWL9vsRO4U2T1YXs4s7uEQxB/Rbat7D0oMPNYJfNIaZ3X+bj8Up/qFLCTZ6kNvPqsQ edApsJi1YwuLjK0qMXyr6y19rErX+iOhma+eAnzg7zzVZ3O/Z9OTJEMTPEPvbwN8pBwL NJ9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39kVJuZHSKHZOuu659MA/vC/6ahsRXNThLhWW5ywCE1y6+f+K7S5hwehZEUEnnoJ0uOdCAj0NZ8ucpLPmQ== X-Received: by 10.202.181.11 with SMTP id e11mr15399853oif.57.1487716484619; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.52.7 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <013D3DF8-3AB6-4E00-9456-6EF82D961DA3@fugue.com> References: <013D3DF8-3AB6-4E00-9456-6EF82D961DA3@fugue.com> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:34:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: RFC Interest , "Heather Flanagan \(RFC Series Editor\)" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7798379382307791043==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" --===============7798379382307791043== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cfef897a35b054911fc15 --001a113cfef897a35b054911fc15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Ted, The behavior may be browser-specific. In Firefox on a Mac, I found that scrolling the TOC using the scroll bar or arrow keys would be completely confined to the TOC. If I used two-finger scrolling, an initial scroll would be confined to the TOC, even if I did a big flick to get to the end, and I then had to do a completely separate scroll operation to start the main text scrolling, with the cursor still in the TOC. Cheers, Andy On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Ted Lemon wrote: > One issue that I noticed when playing with sample 3 is that scrolling the > table of contents starts scrolling the document when you get to the end. > This is a bit of a usability problem, but I don't know if there's a way to > fix it in the CSS. The reason it's a usability problem is that a single > flick on the TOC gets you to the end, and the momentum carries over to the > document, resulting in a substantial scroll of the document. The two > should be completely independent; otherwise, the utility of the TOC is > limited, because I'm going to tend to shy away from using it for fear of > losing my place in the document. > > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest > --001a113cfef897a35b054911fc15 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ted,

The behavior may be browser-specif= ic. In Firefox on a Mac, I found that scrolling the TOC using the scroll ba= r or arrow keys would be completely confined to the TOC. If I used two-fing= er scrolling, an initial scroll would be confined to the TOC, even if I did= a big flick to get to the end, and I then had to do a completely separate = scroll operation to start the main text scrolling, with the cursor still in= the TOC.

Cheers,
Andy


On Tue, = Feb 21, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:=
One issue that I noticed when playing wi= th sample 3 is that scrolling the table of contents starts scrolling the do= cument when you get to the end.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is a bit of a usability pr= oblem, but I don't know if there's a way to fix it in the CSS.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0The reason it's a usability problem is that a single flick on= the TOC gets you to the end, and the momentum carries over to the document= , resulting in a substantial scroll of the document.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The two sh= ould be completely independent; otherwise, the utility of the TOC is limite= d, because I'm going to tend to shy away from using it for fear of losi= ng my place in the document.

_______________________________________________
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rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org<= /a>
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--001a113cfef897a35b054911fc15-- --===============7798379382307791043== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest --===============7798379382307791043==-- From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 21 14:38:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26DE9129D73 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.428, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Fwu0qQVhurD for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 153A6129D66 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86E2B810F3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2007AB810F3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vMGJ2irIWwGb; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x22c.google.com (mail-oi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC02DB80269; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 62so61234513oih.2; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jVQ5ffKUpjgHlBavQ45BSYL4bRG6pgwPem3LmF14P8k=; b=UGlVsna2TBhFnfjPEx4prQmymCOJ+bqHOro3XDbv6BS2/HbRF0jzOIllcwYvNM9VAF W1BsrVfKw71/h5o9Q8JPb9UaOLRMdqWrDS/Z21mjNfWxhP0EpWcUPbu8zilCwCXmzjTc CUugSplkVDdQQg4l1fcpZuenTwMeRma0q+8It/XZFdBeqMMM5FnBrP30bJxSZJcSrItA Nxz8QPqICUZKDjaCwLlPu0uh41E8JuymWqr/nybck7W4PfyqIXTUFgL4LRLWzfWzQ2hD RQh1kEGuIrbcoEl21sS95U9NVS64EQDFfC7ALynUZNUNLBksEGcViPKSCB2vzun39Lxi zAcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jVQ5ffKUpjgHlBavQ45BSYL4bRG6pgwPem3LmF14P8k=; b=in02rTUIb4dU1lq9NupLvKNIrcS57J5yk3DXxGi4taDolXJRM0BZl0b4NH20IDXSzt BOvoseCvkvmxY5QG1feowFRJoXb50roHb3ntdiZWEPsvNJF6S1RCp31ATpfPhizEX4Ok +NwOaHTDVVjkjmgMLIXlWLa7H21wRQiT3wUVdtUxtY8mclt7YVrEPGWP5mTjjLT540nI mcESvtB/lU/a3qamAtxX8koF7JN8S65/0W9P77rRrc3zRlBBwvf39nqIqn1yMtOuu/5L +y9cS/h7v8R8iyIYm2QZIdgImOovX1tstv6yQsam59pFtmDBwLUvjYIvzCiK2njS9Q7d VNDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39mmfIm1OOOnlEZ2tNK/jdsjjnhUF2xwfVnN3+iMCYA6jF/EaZOc9GxDIbNUpqpHd2K008dByTpaTAQ/eg== X-Received: by 10.202.8.201 with SMTP id 192mr1401265oii.6.1487716725159; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.52.7 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:38:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:38:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: RFC Interest Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5400170786261891512==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" --===============5400170786261891512== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c12f984edfc8c0549120a55 --94eb2c12f984edfc8c0549120a55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heather, This is very nicely readable on my iPhone. My only comment is that the indent on the references leaves a lot of white space when holding the screen in portrait orientation, perhaps just the first line should have the full indent. Thanks, Andy On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:52 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) < rse@rfc-editor.org> wrote: > Hello all, > > Back in December, you all had an opportunity to review the first draft of > the CSS that will be applied to the HTML RFCs that will be produced by th= e > RFC Editor when the new formats go live. Issues were collected in github, > either by individuals who posted directly, or by me as I harvested issues > out of various email threads. You can see the issues here: > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues > > Based on the issues collected (with some decisions from me where we had > contradictory input) the CSS developer has built a second version of the > CSS. You can see the new look here: > > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/ > > One of the basic changes includes the addition of a very simple JavaScrip= t > was added to allow for a hamburger menu to appear when the screen is > resized such that the ToC disappears. This JavaScript is not critical to > the reading of the text, and so would be allowed. > > For the issues in github, the following actions were (or were not) taken: > > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/17 > - > > [DONE - set table p to margin 0] > - > > Too much v-space in tables > - > > NOTE: Seems like significant over-selection; would be better to > select on a class. > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/16 > - > > [DONE - fixed the lists] > - > > Levels of indentations for lists from headings > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/15 > - > > [WON'T DO - See #10] > - > > Increase body indent from headings > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/10 > - > > [DONE - indentation removed] > - > > Don=E2=80=99t have body indent from headings > - > > NOTE: is in contradiction to #15 > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/8 > - > > [DONE] > - > > Padding on aside too large (particularly vertically) > - > > FIXED: remove most padding from aside. > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/7 > - > > [NO CHANGE - kept as is, allowing columns for the Index section > except on small devices] > - > > Index in columns > - > > NOTE: glad that this appears to be supported. I would like to keep > columns. > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/6 > - [DONE *- *fixed monospace font sizes] > > - > > Heading with a monospace item in it > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/4 > - [DONE for small devices where the menu will hang over the page > content; wide widths have no divider (to remain uncluttered)] > > - > > Visual separation between draft and TOC > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/3 > - [NO CHANGE - prefer the margin + border to ensure blockquote stands > out] > > - > > Frame + border seems too much for blockquote > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/2 > - [NO CHANGE - paragraph spacing easier to see using real examples of > sample2.html and sample3.html - we should wait for feedback on this= now > that the community can see what the paragraph spacing looks like in > practice] > > - > > Paragraph spacing too large > - > > https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues/1 > - > > [DONE - headings decreased in size both in desktop and mobile > versions] > - > > Headings too large > > > > Please take a moment to look at the slightly updated design, and to post > your feedback either to this list or directly to github. I=E2=80=99m expe= cting the > third (and final, for now) set of changes to focus on polishing the detai= ls > of the look and feel. > > Thank you for your time and attention! > > -- > Heather Flanagan > > > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest > > --94eb2c12f984edfc8c0549120a55 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Heather,

This is very nicely readable o= n my iPhone. My only comment is that the indent on the references leaves a = lot of white space when holding the screen in portrait orientation, perhaps= just the first line should have the full indent.

= Thanks,
Andy


On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:52 AM, Heather Fl= anagan (RFC Series Editor) <rse@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 =20
Hello all,

Back in December, you all had an opportunity to review the first draft of the CSS that will be applied to the HTML RFCs that will be produced by the RFC Editor when the new formats go live. Issues were collected in github, either by individuals who posted directly, or by me as I harvested issues out of various email threads. You can see the issues here:

h= ttps://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues

Based on the issues collected (with some decisions from me where we had contradictory input) the CSS developer has built a second version of the CSS. You can see the new look here:

https://= rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/

One of the basic changes includes the addition of a very simple JavaScript was added to allow for a hamburger menu to appear when the screen is resized such that the ToC disappears. This JavaScript is not critical to the reading of the text, and so would be allowed.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

For the issues in github, the following actions were (or were not) taken:



Please take a moment to look at the slightly updated design, and to post your feedback either to this list or directly to github. I=E2=80= =99m expecting the third (and final, for now) set of changes to focus on polishing the details of the look and feel.

Thank you for your time and attention!

--=C2= =A0
Heather Flanagan


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--94eb2c12f984edfc8c0549120a55-- --===============5400170786261891512== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest --===============5400170786261891512==-- From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 21 14:54:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79FA120725 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ujqh2QJZ3H6B for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F72A120724 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6C6B8019A; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35705B80199 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ttkH7X9978xF for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x22a.google.com (mail-qt0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22a]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3AB8B8019A for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id x35so50900168qtc.2 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=FaUfuifPfL1YWT6cze/XQPaMpbkYZ4PvEZubr6RGVsE=; b=JFSfGPtowv4o7aJflyiLULJo9298Cj/lIGo3XYFUapjmaG2K1wMS5WerVS4kr5YTV8 0xiGEglXFYK3mckPOTSOnRl3Mh8l/Uq9rIYWrpfV5FA2/Z1nDCVxx5BLpB3ff5/dSz1z MkBno8YsBHFB2+EUtJfF5dOiNtF5BO5oRv/RCx6rURGJSSYJ+n1z2WXoWKsM3aqglSHl BXk7UPrWgjiPjB8L3vnp+VOJ7hBEiQDCUYlDkZ0QtvDRnnMGxI4kHvvFbgANlmJNXk6m pV5c+j6yt6nrX/D6HWKPrQdVJ2VE5QdITUo9NnZ2bwTQQ88hdonuPk7Qdb5sgvxGyRmB GYhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=FaUfuifPfL1YWT6cze/XQPaMpbkYZ4PvEZubr6RGVsE=; b=ugj3VPCgzLOTpN1IIZmGbgwzWi+0p03d9UGZ2zm6P69zU+vmyHJDfwJojN1njJBS35 /bEy8cOcV2HDaVjIImG6rLcA17/oLNd4P+33NxzdxXK8qNhb2av0l+I74XYbyRPH+83f FH9Czj5l7xX1vckUmcWbdnSprsbyKwmwGZTCJ/q6Qk5F4+KZqzn258k56L39UPvXEBLA ++yBJVrakhKUdaH9/1X11+jwjm1UqgPfiPP5d83BT3Or5SlQas1pgof8vWOmyDBmm88k mV0GLkx1sRKCP9vtkpC5VxV9i6YDTF4HwbqDrfTzk9i+eCXC3Tm9rcMWOZ0s44l4pGcW kK8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39nWBLKU9eSXQBrxvmDoOPZpUbLgqRb71+LfwWuGMwt6dcJ33HY0HAtAfIqhWPxmGA== X-Received: by 10.237.55.97 with SMTP id i88mr29492733qtb.143.1487717666246; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z139sm4152363qkb.29.2017.02.21.14.54.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:54:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <19619CFC-F897-4EF3-8026-2EEBB4D2A800@fugue.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:54:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: "Andrew G. Malis" References: <013D3DF8-3AB6-4E00-9456-6EF82D961DA3@fugue.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: RFC Interest , "Heather Flanagan \(RFC Series Editor\)" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1220658232783570959==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" --===============1220658232783570959== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B7DCBFE3-FB76-4E05-B67D-CE7B566355AE" --Apple-Mail=_B7DCBFE3-FB76-4E05-B67D-CE7B566355AE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:34 PM, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > The behavior may be browser-specific. In Firefox on a Mac, I found = that scrolling the TOC using the scroll bar or arrow keys would be = completely confined to the TOC. If I used two-finger scrolling, an = initial scroll would be confined to the TOC, even if I did a big flick = to get to the end, and I then had to do a completely separate scroll = operation to start the main text scrolling, with the cursor still in the = TOC. I'm using Chrome on Sierra, and using the trackpad to scroll. --Apple-Mail=_B7DCBFE3-FB76-4E05-B67D-CE7B566355AE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:34 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> = wrote:
The behavior may be browser-specific. In Firefox = on a Mac, I found that scrolling the TOC using the scroll bar or arrow = keys would be completely confined to the TOC. If I used two-finger = scrolling, an initial scroll would be confined to the TOC, even if I did = a big flick to get to the end, and I then had to do a completely = separate scroll operation to start the main text scrolling, with the = cursor still in the TOC.

I'm using Chrome on Sierra, and using the = trackpad to scroll.

= --Apple-Mail=_B7DCBFE3-FB76-4E05-B67D-CE7B566355AE-- --===============1220658232783570959== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest --===============1220658232783570959==-- From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 21 17:52:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79711294F9 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hPXdF4ottIWk for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3CEA1294E5 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8590B814E5; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:13 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7DEB814E5; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pk5EYHhS5mvU; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0BF1B814E3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id x35so53444743qtc.2; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hlWESf84eXMNGdlTSzKxbYxdNLxWLub4naQj39DvtYg=; b=ch6J0frtwEe3dZoKMQrotgYF7nhHyONrWCWekzc369/GUcmkpyfny7pJA/Ides5I// FFdujDB6k7QEWl/sFM61AYGcYByBCbUDiJ99k9gCcLW1gao37sFaObkW1tDIUu42asH/ YGYC5X2wrGy7Y8Hbzt8nCa/Bho1UwWPT5qsdHpJYbRoe0us/6cDJVY+6iIX0yQTqgwQK U5yCIjr+pSojmo72wdfBLdie8xv1aK5b6rIU0Nn5Uj+YMosVlq1M0xVmhxnHAVqxcb3p FVtUvegf7c19TBM8DXfbDY6t0UDoploO7u3XLPcrqMHKQ18G9ks6L/blVkw6Y/XqtKy4 UlPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hlWESf84eXMNGdlTSzKxbYxdNLxWLub4naQj39DvtYg=; b=Jrd/TCo67/VkBJ0UzWF89fhf5N2xdiw/tUmvucpJZc0MrmO/ynhWE64tRPC9t6FYkC bGhglPrESE2cau8PG9cekBeCK5NLigjCqa71xOyUGYtPyrjkzo7NO2zXIk9fEv1I9g7p 7Nn5FEUxlag/7WhvXvguFZBJ5LR237CUMEI0e68PThnZ6E1gLs08xy21cCDw+dFirQF9 mtAJpJS8H6Ob03EpNesH8on7ACZgtHQvEqE9LgqX/GHhiPAqsTmjNgfBv2lZCcDPw+3g cAMU1TV+NTyfrJDO8LJb2eYx0wy5LtNZb7ANKar4RgBpQ4/EDxh1q2lOpDZWlsrc9C7o iv7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39nw89ub17kOerU0WgCGw6g5kp5PZmx4Z5rlQiaq3Mbk5GXU2ST5wXy3dU5+yw12tClScmu46GfNvtMhnA== X-Received: by 10.237.35.84 with SMTP id i20mr30914462qtc.247.1487728325780; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.19.112 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:52:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <013D3DF8-3AB6-4E00-9456-6EF82D961DA3@fugue.com> References: <013D3DF8-3AB6-4E00-9456-6EF82D961DA3@fugue.com> From: Martin Thomson Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 12:52:05 +1100 Message-ID: To: Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, "Heather Flanagan \(RFC Series Editor\)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 22 February 2017 at 02:21, Ted Lemon wrote: > One issue that I noticed when playing with sample 3 is that scrolling the table of contents starts scrolling the document when you get to the end. This is a bit of a usability problem, but I don't know if there's a way to fix it in the CSS. I am not enough of an expert here, but I think that's a fundamental problem with CSS that probably doesn't get fixed easily. The best I could suggest is to add a moderately large pad to the bottom of the TOC/ _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 21 18:06:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 982A01294F7 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K6nl_8zC8HEl for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BE2A1294F4 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5910B80199; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80964B80199; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q09--ztC8T4k; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FFE4B80198; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id x35so53633899qtc.2; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:06:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MVMAlzMgFEoKtuf0p2tX++YKz7fBYWuvumXoT8FhRh4=; b=bgUyk/nnIMZY5HM7rK/sX6oJVTe9y1XqWlqfxxSLG3Bk4pP0XhiPKnfvpYwwwn25dK BKSGcSvAnrK9LJRjuMmehdUSE7n3g7plT5ppdfSZIjL97kffHUiFlsCLnlj9yCrX4LO4 31q90aQDP84ZIfb0u1GnlJh7Wa5fMc78J4Z9wbMicB+dYCo+H1xtC7SKNjMUCwKd2+xv iBqDkXHgJcqPwImOU+3CPfdYabjsAX60d6DeQlYMayoDy8SK6+jfbZ2rcIbqVZ+3PlYA TC2kKmExMyFlUtKqsyrarulDu3+JXEXXkT+753zvH5QlDaVMEyl2UdD9jk7A1S6YJbtV 6Z0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MVMAlzMgFEoKtuf0p2tX++YKz7fBYWuvumXoT8FhRh4=; b=SP36PA3lXydTtrvaAaiaB4QNYVpHPLo+i0LVQePBitCBIJNGzLCjq8lbxUqwWhJ3xo ZYTNxozMHn6upLUcT0y/SXCQKZqD0FSw+vfa2O9euKLEkrF7cv9FARaJWenfJ5fCKKJX Ym2rZwZexk2QiX88558wSUNULO3BKP3PzzdPawricS1b3rzJqzQ8eVveER+4udinP0ED BqCIl/tCp9Fj+OyicBk0wjXbwmK54oN7Q3yNM0X2gRyaj8sQEoRpBiJrd9ET5DhbSb+w 55sipc0oBBrE4VWlVoYh8UqOH7X5sQXpXdn/cqnXfXUnFv1ozfj5ns++wjchlv3DTVMh Y+sg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39k8y/Kz0QdhDeOAt9B69pUjFZ2O2vV3emGI2q4h/yZcJ92+GHmEesS0dT2PUEtPbjszPN3U5VtUUicg9g== X-Received: by 10.200.46.91 with SMTP id s27mr6476490qta.278.1487729159338; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:05:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.19.112 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:05:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Martin Thomson Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 13:05:58 +1100 Message-ID: To: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" On 21 February 2017 at 17:52, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/ Hi Heather, I checked these out on phone (with a decently large screen), desktop, and print preview. These are all massive improvements and you seem to have found good resolutions to the issues I raised, thanks. I don't think that the change to use Javascript for the table of contents on narrow views is an improvement. It effectively removes the TOC from the document. As a regular reader of these things, I need to see the table of contents. Having to click or tap ruins that, especially since the button is on the very edge of what I can easily hit with my fat digits. On narrower screens, leaving the TOC inline (where it would otherwise appear in the text version) is better. The little hamburger icon could then be a link to the TOC. That wouldn't require Javascript either, though that's not my overriding concern. The other issues that I saw were all problems with the source. For instance, the double-comma Brian observed was in the HTML source and easily corrected. The precis document also uses something that appears to be a badly formatted definition list in the IANA considerations, but that turns out to be straightforward text with irregular spacing. _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 21 18:53:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361EC12951F for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:53:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.092 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.092 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Wed, 22 Feb 2017 02:53:32 +0000 Received: from CY1PR03MB2265.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.166.207.17]) by CY1PR03MB2265.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.166.207.17]) with mapi id 15.01.0919.018; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 02:53:32 +0000 From: Dave Thaler To: Martin Thomson , "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" Thread-Topic: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round Thread-Index: AQHSjA8QpjXzSOv5aECo2Hnt4hOQTKF0SEwAgAAMltA= Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 02:53:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=dthaler@microsoft.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:4898:80e8:a::452] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0cf58d32-fc8a-42e5-91bb-08d45acdfd09 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(48565401081); SRVR:CY1PR03MB2265; x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR03MB2265; 7:Q7Q2FxSHL53LojT2csDV+cVVhTiBOdQbn9uSA85gZDpnhilWQ5GioaHvkhNDnTbNyAso7i3z1serrjwFbypntnPD7eGsztZDdrjOJvEaZ3TNWumNAEQJebcoqRekC05kMZloyVkUM9j0ss5cr2UpAFLn+v1TwK+WGxT0x4e1AEm3JdjaTs87zYmXkhxI+p53CmF+LPmtngq+AW+dWVE1OAr+6/ym8ttLwzXfa7nVbVbEiP51zWamOgNIevPFxTgOyGsVMBnLHgG3Lx+TdbqwAbyB/jflT3e2wZlAiQSGFHtnkxvASVQkFn9hlmdyiUES6YnTbGR672sU0HSEbHhPQzRbrYGPGLyBqnwzXA19/bQ= x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR03MB2265; H:CY1PR03MB2265.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Feb 2017 02:53:32.3278 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR03MB2265 Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" Besides the double-comma issue, there's issues of spaces before commas in a number of the references (most obvious one being in RFC2811). But that's also in the HTML source as Martin said. -----Original Message----- From: rfc-interest [mailto:rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org] On Behalf Of Martin Thomson Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 6:06 PM To: Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round On 21 February 2017 at 17:52, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/ Hi Heather, I checked these out on phone (with a decently large screen), desktop, and print preview. These are all massive improvements and you seem to have found good resolutions to the issues I raised, thanks. I don't think that the change to use Javascript for the table of contents on narrow views is an improvement. It effectively removes the TOC from the document. As a regular reader of these things, I need to see the table of contents. Having to click or tap ruins that, especially since the button is on the very edge of what I can easily hit with my fat digits. On narrower screens, leaving the TOC inline (where it would otherwise appear in the text version) is better. The little hamburger icon could then be a link to the TOC. That wouldn't require Javascript either, though that's not my overriding concern. The other issues that I saw were all problems with the source. For instance, the double-comma Brian observed was in the HTML source and easily corrected. The precis document also uses something that appears to be a badly formatted definition list in the IANA considerations, but that turns out to be straightforward text with irregular spacing. _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Wed Feb 22 05:20:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220C4129863 for ; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.088 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.088 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EcelEv-eOhqY for ; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50A771296AD for ; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41CFB823CF; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B487B823CF; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R5YOKPND_Scq; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x22c.google.com (mail-oi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19145B823CE; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 2so1321926oif.0; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hwuelToXK6B0ENjT6wb44t22oesDy4r4lVVB3QVEvUU=; b=STrY2uvsabcx43wNSWrIVM93oyrjxLi+qqBfd59XhOCLIetKmPeZZFX0b2dmapdc41 1qmxCVRdq8NWBiyptV1VAfvVT3t/uh4Fy22m6spIp8WMxQYhF9BDDaxnq+cmPJkEHZhJ RdNv3fWm2YjpLFbb4mXS/uOnXl921YT2SeazwlKqudO+gH6IFSoP6EEN3wHdXxS9nOm9 7atMeJI0njqPev8kUWqGUGd2MpwQNLNUSBhh2delG3PjXzYYnaug9bkCCEg3uLD0+MJT /lppXAPQXKUyioC06oKVHV+QrNBNiM3F2KC1nuyFfwitIzj/kzaRmZUMxzOKw/SSTiB0 rvdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hwuelToXK6B0ENjT6wb44t22oesDy4r4lVVB3QVEvUU=; b=sRAPap99IMhcK7y0z6jzOtjCj3/Mn830LRAVkJH65mCkL5eoYQdrwF4s3G8dk6mQN+ 6EUZS83op3dihSIVpTkHQNB8GoeKZ/u1sNygOWe4uFbQDD/6uBy48jNmn4XknQ3XU3Qw rcK8vDlpPV/UGLeig4emqv0690uVof0QQUn1QpowFl7+SNUFYjPradeY+xka4YapINUV QsfXKSKVKEjQqKWSAXEJ/telpELiWag7HqCeboGqhHcwD7sKmK2PbL+k1ITHI2WUssyW QQinwbbzzc1xHMPYidHsFoCO2Kjg4GBDHslsMhboDFFQqHL7PV8iSYeVtzKvGoRv0mTV /xag== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39l6ZrMpimpHf5XS8mXp3GusM15UJjr9d2U4/dgamAoOIsxX0N8kpXXL8RMeBwB5iyEm5+AyJwPxZvJn2g== X-Received: by 10.202.220.198 with SMTP id t189mr17059304oig.94.1487769616439; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:20:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.52.7 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Feb 2017 05:19:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 08:19:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: Martin Thomson Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: RFC Interest , "Heather Flanagan \(RFC Series Editor\)" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0546016654348859521==" Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" --===============0546016654348859521== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d634a7edcb405491e5b10 --001a113d634a7edcb405491e5b10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Martin (and Heather), I completely disagree regarding the TOC on small screens. I like that wherever I am in the document, I can open the TOC, refer to it, scroll it up and down, and then if I close it without clicking on a link, I=E2=80=99m= back in the exact same place in the document. That said, in Sample 3 v2, I=E2=80=99m also seeing the TOC scrolling bug in= Safari on my iPhone 6s. If I scroll the TOC beyond its limits (either up or down), the main document starts to scroll. One other small bug with the hamburger TOC button - as you scroll up on the main document, the hamburger icon slowly scrolls up as well, and less and less of it is visible the further down you go in the document. When I reach the bottom of the document, the button almost completely disappears. One other TOC bug I noticed on the iPhone - if I=E2=80=99m reading, say, se= ction 2.1, then use the TOC to jump to section 5, if I then use the browser=E2=80= =99s =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D button, I leave the document rather than go back to = section 2.1. However, this works correctly on Firefox on my Mac - the back button takes me back to section 2.1. Cheers, Andy On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > On 21 February 2017 at 17:52, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) > wrote: > > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/ > > Hi Heather, > > I checked these out on phone (with a decently large screen), desktop, > and print preview. These are all massive improvements and you seem to > have found good resolutions to the issues I raised, thanks. > > I don't think that the change to use Javascript for the table of > contents on narrow views is an improvement. It effectively removes > the TOC from the document. As a regular reader of these things, I > need to see the table of contents. Having to click or tap ruins that, > especially since the button is on the very edge of what I can easily > hit with my fat digits. > > On narrower screens, leaving the TOC inline (where it would otherwise > appear in the text version) is better. The little hamburger icon > could then be a link to the TOC. That wouldn't require Javascript > either, though that's not my overriding concern. > > The other issues that I saw were all problems with the source. For > instance, the double-comma Brian observed was in the HTML source and > easily corrected. The precis document also uses something that > appears to be a badly formatted definition list in the IANA > considerations, but that turns out to be straightforward text with > irregular spacing. > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest > --001a113d634a7edcb405491e5b10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Martin (and Heather),

I completely disa= gree regarding the TOC on small screens. I like that wherever I am in the d= ocument, I can open the TOC, refer to it, scroll it up and down, and then i= f I close it without clicking on a link, I=E2=80=99m back in the exact same= place in the document.

That said, in Sample 3 v2,= I=E2=80=99m also seeing the TOC scrolling bug in Safari on my iPhone 6s. I= f I scroll the TOC beyond its limits (either up or down), the main document= starts to scroll.

One other small bug with the ha= mburger TOC button - as you scroll up on the main document, the hamburger i= con slowly scrolls up as well, and less and less of it is visible the furth= er down you go in the document. When I reach the bottom of the document, th= e button almost completely disappears.

One other T= OC bug I noticed on the iPhone - if I=E2=80=99m reading, say, section 2.1, = then use the TOC to jump to section 5, if I then use the browser=E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D button, I leave the document rather than go back to = section 2.1. However, this works correctly on Firefox on my Mac - the back = button takes me back to section 2.1.

Cheers,
Andy




On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 a= t 9:05 PM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> = wrote:
On 21 February 2017 at 17:52, Heat= her Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)
<rse@rfc-editor.org> wrote:=
> https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-= rfc-css-bis/

Hi Heather,

I checked these out on phone (with a decently large screen), desktop,
and print preview.=C2=A0 These are all massive improvements and you seem to=
have found good resolutions to the issues I raised, thanks.

I don't think that the change to use Javascript for the table of
contents on narrow views is an improvement.=C2=A0 It effectively removes the TOC from the document.=C2=A0 As a regular reader of these things, I
need to see the table of contents.=C2=A0 Having to click or tap ruins that,=
especially since the button is on the very edge of what I can easily
hit with my fat digits.

On narrower screens, leaving the TOC inline (where it would otherwise
appear in the text version) is better.=C2=A0 The little hamburger icon
could then be a link to the TOC.=C2=A0 That wouldn't require Javascript=
either, though that's not my overriding concern.

The other issues that I saw were all problems with the source.=C2=A0 For instance, the double-comma Brian observed was in the HTML source and
easily corrected.=C2=A0 The precis document also uses something that
appears to be a badly formatted definition list in the IANA
considerations, but that turns out to be straightforward text with
irregular spacing.
______________________________= _________________
rfc-interest mailing list
rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org<= /a>
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--001a113d634a7edcb405491e5b10-- --===============0546016654348859521== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest --===============0546016654348859521==-- From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Fri Feb 24 08:53:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B661C128BA2 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:53:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PaGROgHvtqlE for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D3921289C4 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450C3B810F6; Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:53:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55A4B8040F for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:27:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G6HeNR5hoStX for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [4.31.198.44]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2187DB8040C for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145FE129C19; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:27:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: IETF Administrative Director To: "IETF Announcement List" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.45.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148789243004.21178.7922360111519513594.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:27:10 -0800 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:53:39 -0800 Subject: [rfc-i] Proposed IETF Statement Concerning Personal Data for Review X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" VGhlIElBT0Mgd291bGQgbGlrZSBjb21tdW5pdHkgaW5wdXQgb24gYSBwcm9wb3NlZCBJRVRGIFN0 YXRlbWVudApDb25jZXJuaW5nIFBlcnNvbmFsIERhdGEuCgpUaGUgcG9saWN5IGRpc2N1c3NlcyB0 aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nOgogIDEuICBHZW5lcmFsIOKAkyBNb3N0IFBlcnNvbmFsIERhdGEgU3VibWl0 dGVkIHRvIHRoZSBQYXJ0aWVzIFdpbGwgQmVjb21lIFB1YmxpYwogIDIuICBZb3UgQ29uc2VudCB0 byBJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsIFRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBvZiBZb3VyIERhdGEgCiAgMy4gIEV4Y2VwdGlv bnMg4oCTIEluZm9ybWF0aW9uIFRoYXQgV2UgRG8gTm90IFJlbGVhc2UgdG8gdGhlIFB1YmxpYwog IDQuICBTZWN1cml0eQogIDUuICBDaGlsZHJlbgogIDYuICBJbnF1aXJpZXMKICA3LiAgQ29tcGxp YW5jZQogIDguICBPdGhlciBPcmdhbml6YXRpb25zCiAgOS4gIExpbmtzIHRvIG90aGVyIHNpdGVz LgogIDEwLiAgQ29uc2VudAoKVGhlIHByb3Bvc2VkIFByaXZhY3kgUG9saWN5IGlzIGxvY2F0ZWQg aGVyZToKaHR0cHM6Ly9pYW9jLmlldGYub3JnL2RvY3VtZW50cy9Qcml2YWN5LVN0YXRlbWVudC0y M0ZlYjE3Lmh0bQoKVGhlIHByZXZpb3VzIHBvbGljeSB3YXMgcG9zdGVkIGZvciBjb21tdW5pdHkg cmV2aWV3IG9uIDI0IEZlYnJ1YXJ5CjIwMTYuIFRoaXMgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gcmVmbGVjdHMgaW5w dXQgcmVjZWl2ZWQgZHVyaW5nIHRoYXQgY29tbXVuaXR5CnJldmlldyBhbmQgYSBkaWZmIGZpbGUg cmVmbGVjdGluZyB0aGUgY2hhbmdlcyBzaW5jZSB0aGF0IHZlcnNpb24gaXMKbG9jYXRlZCBoZXJl OgoKaHR0cHM6Ly9pYW9jLmlldGYub3JnL2RvY3VtZW50cy9EaWZmLVByaXZhY3ktMjAxNi0wMi0y NC0wMi1Qcml2YWN5LTIzRmViMTcucGRmCgpUaGUgSUFPQyB3aWxsIGNvbnNpZGVyIGFsbCBjb21t ZW50cyByZWNlaXZlZCBieSA5IE1hcmNoIDIwMTcuCgpSYXkgUGVsbGV0aWVyCklFVEYgQWRtaW5p c3RyYXRpdmUgRGlyZWN0b3IKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18KcmZjLWludGVyZXN0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApyZmMtaW50ZXJlc3RAcmZjLWVkaXRv ci5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmZjLWVkaXRvci5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9yZmMtaW50 ZXJlc3QK From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Mon Feb 27 08:34:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29095129965 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kAk0bL2rJ0Jw for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 032F91294A9 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB077B80225; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 083D5B80228 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hqGtzGR-3YQY for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D053B80225 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DA5B1E567B for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-f180.google.com (mail-ot0-f180.google.com [74.125.82.180]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BBB21E5686 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-f180.google.com with SMTP id w44so55235214otw.2 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:05 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39nKlyPaJX2RQQmK/X5nqSbnSwt9TYjhwA3QaXYEvrA29wR83v2T7VC24eEv0gIPe8zD2ymuxna7VBRyxg== X-Received: by 10.157.52.130 with SMTP id g2mr8370646otc.64.1488213245291; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:34:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.12.85 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:33:44 -0800 (PST) From: Glen Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:33:44 -0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Subject: [rfc-i] RFC Server Maintenance Outage March 6th X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: glen@amsl.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" All -- On Monday, March 6th, we will be having a pre-planned maintenance outage on the RFC Editor server group. The maintenance window - the period during which outages may occur - is expected to be from 1600-2000 GMT on that day. During the outage window, access to web, email, and related RFC-Editor sites and services will be impacted, and some services will be unavailable for brief periods. Services may be unavailable at different intervals, and the availability of one service with the simultaneous unavailability of another service should not be a cause for alarm. These maintenance windows are necessary to perform operating system and related software upgrades on the servers supporting the RFC-Editor. Thank you for your patience with this process. Glen -- Glen Barney IT Director AMS (RFC-Editor Secretariat) _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest From rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Tue Feb 28 12:41:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F471296D2 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:41:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.092 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.092 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=samwhited.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LN1FAWjB-_m1 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:41:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDABC1296CB for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:41:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DCFB81250; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:41:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76A9B81255 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:40:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=samwhited.com Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FQNE7BQ3mUuE for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-x22f.google.com (mail-yw0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22f]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 908E7B81250 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yw0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v200so17399609ywc.3 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:40:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=samwhited.com; s=swgoo; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wsTwA9B+AhoNx1oq1CtSFo0zsp34wphJyfU6Bqr+qcg=; b=Vh8gfoGk7h6RBgHo1xsTAOZbZ+EhAzjxwGzWMJkIdta+iiNEKU92wIppqGBTp9iAK/ bs8mTBs8s2ysDD55XQkdonlZaqQnnFavzL3bPcMiNRwa3akQltjYeidWQjveaoDGHO/a 1jYTr3n5SzPE7Y7JU9KESf08Y6rAVIz2FWhY0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wsTwA9B+AhoNx1oq1CtSFo0zsp34wphJyfU6Bqr+qcg=; b=pAeEHNUz+mfVGOUWuyDIGW79Ggd5xJyu02pekFhKO+tvSwmlWUcuYBLursGIjh8ZMq gf11+sKT9mSbSiJfOsq3hyrWHz1ZbczD0iCjhl1HrurlF8h76zs3Hlvpup7/8TuquJFa IkLXQNKsHA4+SbFvjimyeoJYApgjXL7W0tjT33KJ6UhJHUy+Nty8Z0lUuJ3UZSAaN/Dt QlIFVVY6thpiVhiyutxu97J+y9FkR3/vWsGIqvg8edhAAsQo2kbIoPfXJTNYaWMqWKKH N+PnwzDsTGrM94lsRe+4knaL4eXGP18Pj5slarLKD5Mulg9PwhpHdo1S5UVI2LCpw/E9 zS9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39mLZqpjT2eCL0V0VSrQzB+pkPIKQPIqEGTAhG7eJo/ey+1EVD5akcWjNRQgzGzkrMw+UKvg0zShGQcinA== X-Received: by 10.37.177.167 with SMTP id h39mr1637819ybj.110.1488314453464; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:40:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.162.22 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:40:13 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [72.48.156.244] In-Reply-To: References: From: Sam Whited Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 14:40:13 -0600 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." 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Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.19.112 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Martin Thomson Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 12:01:12 +1100 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Update on the CSS - second round X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: RFC Interest , "Heather Flanagan \(RFC Series Editor\)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org Sender: "rfc-interest" T24gMjMgRmVicnVhcnkgMjAxNyBhdCAwMDoxOSwgQW5kcmV3IEcuIE1hbGlzIDxhZ21hbGlzQGdt YWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gSSBjb21wbGV0ZWx5IGRpc2FncmVlIHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGUgVE9D IG9uIHNtYWxsIHNjcmVlbnMuIEkgbGlrZSB0aGF0Cj4gd2hlcmV2ZXIgSSBhbSBpbiB0aGUgZG9j dW1lbnQsIEkgY2FuIG9wZW4gdGhlIFRPQywgcmVmZXIgdG8gaXQsIHNjcm9sbCBpdCB1cAo+IGFu ZCBkb3duLCBhbmQgdGhlbiBpZiBJIGNsb3NlIGl0IHdpdGhvdXQgY2xpY2tpbmcgb24gYSBsaW5r LCBJ4oCZbSBiYWNrIGluIHRoZQo+IGV4YWN0IHNhbWUgcGxhY2UgaW4gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LgoK SXQncyB2ZXJ5IGVhc3kgdG8gb2ZmZXIgYSBsaW5rIHRvIHRoZSBUT0MgdGhhdCBob3ZlcnMgb3Zl ciB0aGUgcGFnZSwKdGhlbiAtIGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgeW91ciBicm93c2VyIG9mZmVycyBhIGZ1bmN0 aW9uYWwgYmFjayBidXR0b24gLSB5b3UKY2FuIHJldHVybiB0byB3aGF0IHlvdSB3ZXJlIHJlYWRp bmcgYnkgaGl0dGluZyB0aGF0IGJ1dHRvbi4KClRoZXJlJ3Mgbm8gcGVyZmVjdCBzb2x1dGlvbiwg YnV0IHRoZSBjb25zZXF1ZW5jZSBvZiB0aGUgY3VycmVudApwcm9wb3NlZCBkZXNpZ24gaXMgdGhh dCB5b3UgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIHRoZSBUT0Mgd2l0aG91dCB0YXBwaW5nLiAgSSdtCnN1Z2dlc3Rpbmcg ZXhhY3RseSB0aGUgc2FtZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgdGFwcyBmb3IgeW91ciB1c2UgY2FzZSwgbm8Kb3Zl cnNjcm9sbCAiYnVnIiwgYW5kIG5vIGphdmFzY3JpcHQuCgpwLnMuLCBUaGF0IGJhY2sgYnV0dG9u IGJlaGF2aW91ciBjb3VsZCBiZSBhIHByb2R1Y3Qgb2YgamF2YXNjcmlwdApvdmVydXNlLiAgSGl0 dGluZyBiYWNrIHNob3VsZCBtb3ZlIGJldHdlZW4gYW5jaG9ycyBvbiB0aGUgc2FtZSBwYWdlLgpJ dCBjb3VsZCBiZSBhIFNhZmFyaSBidWcgdGhvdWdoLCBmb3Igd2hpY2ggSSdkIHJlY29tbWVuZCB1 c2luZyBhCmRpZmZlcmVudCBicm93c2VyLiAgT2YgY291cnNlLCB0aGF0IG1pZ2h0IG5vdCBoZWxw IG11Y2gsIGJlY2F1c2UgaXQncwphbGwgcmVhbGx5IFNhZmFyaSBhbnl3YXksIGJ1dCB0aGVzZSB0 aGluZ3MgYXJlIHVzdWFsbHkgb3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUKcmVuZGVyaW5nIGVuZ2luZS4KX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KcmZjLWludGVyZXN0IG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdApyZmMtaW50ZXJlc3RAcmZjLWVkaXRvci5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmZjLWVk aXRvci5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9yZmMtaW50ZXJlc3QK