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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 22:54:55 -0400
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To: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
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Subject: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine on
the screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!

I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:
https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/


Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?

Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The next
step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.

I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or xml2rfc v3
input.

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I j=
ust completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine on the s=
creen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-size:small">I am using the stylesheet from this with ve=
ry minor tweakage:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><a href=3D"https://rfc=
-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/">https://rfc-format.github.io/draf=
t-iab-rfc-css-bis/</a><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Anyone s=
killed in stylesheetery?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-si=
ze:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=
Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The next s=
tep being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I believe that the tool should work co=
rrectly with markdown or xml2rfc v3 input.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div>

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From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:38:30 +1000
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To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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Worked for me.  Firefox on Windows.  I can produce a PDF, though it's
a tad large.

On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
> I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine on the
> screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!
>
> I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:
> https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/
>
>
> Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?
>
> Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The next
> step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.
>
> I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or xml2rfc v3
> input.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rfc-interest mailing list
> rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
>
_______________________________________________
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To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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--94eb2c1cdafe40a6ae0556728a96
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I was having issues on Chrome and Edge. Commenting out these lines did the
trick.

  body {
    font-family: 'Noto Serif', "Times New Roman", Times, serif;
    width: 100%;
  }


On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Worked for me.  Firefox on Windows.  I can produce a PDF, though it's
> a tad large.
>
> On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
> wrote:
> > I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine on
> the
> > screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!
> >
> > I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:
> > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/
> >
> >
> > Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?
> >
> > Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The next
> > step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.
> >
> > I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or xml2rfc v3
> > input.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rfc-interest mailing list
> > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
> > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
> >
>

--94eb2c1cdafe40a6ae0556728a96
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I w=
as having issues on Chrome and Edge. Commenting out these lines did the tri=
ck.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault">=C2=A0 body {</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 font-=
family: &#39;Noto Serif&#39;, &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, Times, serif;</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 width: 100%;</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 }</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Martin Thomson <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.thomson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">martin.thomson@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">Worked for me.=C2=A0 Firefox on Windows.=C2=A0 I can produce a PDF=
, though it&#39;s<br>
a tad large.<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil=
l@hallambaker.com">phill@hallambaker.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine =
on the<br>
&gt; screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://rfc-format.github.io/<wbr>draft-iab-=
rfc-css-bis/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The n=
ext<br>
&gt; step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or xml2rfc=
 v3<br>
&gt; input.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div>&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; rfc-interest mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org">rfc-interest@rfc-editor=
.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/<wbr>mailman=
/listinfo/rfc-interest</a><br>
&gt;<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to
recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets. That is serious because it
means that the only way to display SVGs reliably is going to be to either
include them as external objects or process the style sheet and SVG to
force uniqueness.

Worse still is that even doing that, the results of including the
stylesheet are different to linking externally. Even with a copy and paste.

I would suggest MHTML but support to save in that format has disappeared
from all the browsers I use. This is not looking like a happy camper
situation.



On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <
phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:

> I was having issues on Chrome and Edge. Commenting out these lines did the
> trick.
>
>   body {
>     font-family: 'Noto Serif', "Times New Roman", Times, serif;
>     width: 100%;
>   }
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Worked for me.  Firefox on Windows.  I can produce a PDF, though it's
>> a tad large.
>>
>> On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine
>> on the
>> > screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!
>> >
>> > I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:
>> > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?
>> >
>> > Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The
>> next
>> > step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.
>> >
>> > I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or xml2rfc
>> v3
>> > input.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > rfc-interest mailing list
>> > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
>> > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
>> >
>>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">OK =
so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to recogniz=
e the scoped attribute on stylesheets. That is serious because it means tha=
t the only way to display SVGs reliably is going to be to either include th=
em as external objects or process the style sheet and SVG to force uniquene=
ss.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Worse still is that e=
ven doing that, the results of including the stylesheet are different to li=
nking externally. Even with a copy and paste.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">I would suggest MHTML but support to save in that form=
at has disappeared from all the browsers I use. This is not looking like a =
happy camper situation.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><=
br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On=
 Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:phill@hallambaker.com" target=3D"_blank">phill@hallambake=
r.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I was having iss=
ues on Chrome and Edge. Commenting out these lines did the trick.</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=
=A0 body {</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 font-family: &#3=
9;Noto Serif&#39;, &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, Times, serif;</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 width: 100%;</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault">=C2=A0 }</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:=
small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:=
38 PM, Martin Thomson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.thomso=
n@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.thomson@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Worked for me.=C2=A0 Firefox on Window=
s.=C2=A0 I can produce a PDF, though it&#39;s<br>
a tad large.<br>
<div><div class=3D"m_-7863787409556931840h5"><br>
On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil=
l@hallambaker.com" target=3D"_blank">phill@hallambaker.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r>
&gt; I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine =
on the<br>
&gt; screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://rfc-format.github.io/d<wbr>raft-iab-=
rfc-css-bis/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The n=
ext<br>
&gt; step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or xml2rfc=
 v3<br>
&gt; input.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div>&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; rfc-interest mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" target=3D"_blank">rfc-i=
nterest@rfc-editor.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/mai<wbr>lman=
/listinfo/rfc-interest</a><br>
&gt;<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:04:30 +1000
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To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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Scoped stylesheets isn't a feature that you can rely on.  Firefox does
(or did) support scoped stylesheets, but it wasn't widely implemented
or used and has several problems.

On 11 August 2017 at 14:25, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
> OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to
> recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets. That is serious because it
> means that the only way to display SVGs reliably is going to be to either
> include them as external objects or process the style sheet and SVG to force
> uniqueness.
>
> Worse still is that even doing that, the results of including the stylesheet
> are different to linking externally. Even with a copy and paste.
>
> I would suggest MHTML but support to save in that format has disappeared
> from all the browsers I use. This is not looking like a happy camper
> situation.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker
> <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was having issues on Chrome and Edge. Commenting out these lines did the
>> trick.
>>
>>   body {
>>     font-family: 'Noto Serif', "Times New Roman", Times, serif;
>>     width: 100%;
>>   }
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Martin Thomson
>> <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Worked for me.  Firefox on Windows.  I can produce a PDF, though it's
>>> a tad large.
>>>
>>> On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine
>>> > on the
>>> > screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!
>>> >
>>> > I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:
>>> > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?
>>> >
>>> > Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The
>>> > next
>>> > step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.
>>> >
>>> > I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or xml2rfc
>>> > v3
>>> > input.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > rfc-interest mailing list
>>> > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
>>> > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
>>> >
>>
>>
>
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To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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This is likely to be a showstopper for folk trying to write tools using
lightweight lexical analysis.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Scoped stylesheets isn't a feature that you can rely on.  Firefox does
> (or did) support scoped stylesheets, but it wasn't widely implemented
> or used and has several problems.
>
> On 11 August 2017 at 14:25, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
> wrote:
> > OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to
> > recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets. That is serious because it
> > means that the only way to display SVGs reliably is going to be to either
> > include them as external objects or process the style sheet and SVG to
> force
> > uniqueness.
> >
> > Worse still is that even doing that, the results of including the
> stylesheet
> > are different to linking externally. Even with a copy and paste.
> >
> > I would suggest MHTML but support to save in that format has disappeared
> > from all the browsers I use. This is not looking like a happy camper
> > situation.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker
> > <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I was having issues on Chrome and Edge. Commenting out these lines did
> the
> >> trick.
> >>
> >>   body {
> >>     font-family: 'Noto Serif', "Times New Roman", Times, serif;
> >>     width: 100%;
> >>   }
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Martin Thomson
> >> <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Worked for me.  Firefox on Windows.  I can produce a PDF, though it's
> >>> a tad large.
> >>>
> >>> On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker <
> phill@hallambaker.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems to work fine
> >>> > on the
> >>> > screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!
> >>> >
> >>> > I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweakage:
> >>> > https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?
> >>> >
> >>> > Example attached. This was produced from a Word document source. The
> >>> > next
> >>> > step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then markdown.
> >>> >
> >>> > I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdown or
> xml2rfc
> >>> > v3
> >>> > input.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > rfc-interest mailing list
> >>> > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
> >>> > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
> >>> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Thi=
s is likely to be a showstopper for folk trying to write tools using lightw=
eight lexical analysis.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Martin Thomson <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.thomson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
martin.thomson@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">Scoped stylesheets isn&#39;t a feature that you can rely on.=C2=A0 Fi=
refox does<br>
(or did) support scoped stylesheets, but it wasn&#39;t widely implemented<b=
r>
or used and has several problems.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On 11 August 2017 at 14:25, Phillip Hallam-Baker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil=
l@hallambaker.com">phill@hallambaker.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to<=
br>
&gt; recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets. That is serious because=
 it<br>
&gt; means that the only way to display SVGs reliably is going to be to eit=
her<br>
&gt; include them as external objects or process the style sheet and SVG to=
 force<br>
&gt; uniqueness.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Worse still is that even doing that, the results of including the styl=
esheet<br>
&gt; are different to linking externally. Even with a copy and paste.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I would suggest MHTML but support to save in that format has disappear=
ed<br>
&gt; from all the browsers I use. This is not looking like a happy camper<b=
r>
&gt; situation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phill@hallambaker.com">phill@hallambaker.com</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I was having issues on Chrome and Edge. Commenting out these lines=
 did the<br>
&gt;&gt; trick.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0body {<br>
&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0font-family: &#39;Noto Serif&#39;, &quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;, Times, serif;<br>
&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0width: 100%;<br>
&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0}<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Martin Thomson<br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.thomson@gmail.com">martin.thomson@gma=
il.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Worked for me.=C2=A0 Firefox on Windows.=C2=A0 I can produce a=
 PDF, though it&#39;s<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; a tad large.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11 August 2017 at 12:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:phill@hallambaker.com">phill@hallambaker.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; I just completed my draft for the naming workshop. Seems =
to work fine<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; on the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; screen but when I print... white text on white... argh!!!=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; I am using the stylesheet from this with very minor tweak=
age:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://rfc-format.github.io/draft-iab-rfc-css=
-bis/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://rfc-format.github.io/<w=
br>draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Anyone skilled in stylesheetery?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Example attached. This was produced from a Word document =
source. The<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; next<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; step being to generate xml2rfcv2 and v3 output, then mark=
down.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; I believe that the tool should work correctly with markdo=
wn or xml2rfc<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; v3<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; input.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; rfc-interest mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org">rfc-intere=
st@rfc-editor.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rf=
c-interest" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org=
/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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On 10 Aug 2017, at 21:25, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

> OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to
> recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets.

Where do we use scoped attributes in the new CSS? It sounds like we 
should get rid of it in the -bis documents.

--Paul Hoffman
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 2017-08-11 19:17, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> On 10 Aug 2017, at 21:25, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> 
>> OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to
>> recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets.
> 
> Where do we use scoped attributes in the new CSS? It sounds like we 
> should get rid of it in the -bis documents.

As far as I understand, we don't.

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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 2017-08-11 18:54, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> This is likely to be a showstopper for folk trying to write tools using 
> lightweight lexical analysis.
> ...
Please be more specific.

Best regards, Julian
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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The problem is that SVG drawings almost always have an embedded style
sheet. And anyone who has three drawings in a document is likely to use the
same tool for all three. And the tools generally create styles named st1,
st2, etc and restart the numbering for each document.

I had no problem either. Not until I tried to use the tool on a real paper
that has four diagrams and then it went all kablooey.



On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:17 PM, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> wrote:

> On 10 Aug 2017, at 21:25, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
> OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to
>> recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets.
>>
>
> Where do we use scoped attributes in the new CSS? It sounds like we should
> get rid of it in the -bis documents.
>
> --Paul Hoffman
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">The=
 problem is that SVG drawings almost always have an embedded style sheet. A=
nd anyone who has three drawings in a document is likely to use the same to=
ol for all three. And the tools generally create styles named st1, st2, etc=
 and restart the numbering for each document.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">I had no problem either. Not until I tried to use the =
tool on a real paper that has four diagrams and then it went all kablooey.<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:=
17 PM, Paul Hoffman <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paul.hoffman@vp=
nc.org" target=3D"_blank">paul.hoffman@vpnc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 10 Aug 2017, at 21:25, Phi=
llip Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
OK so here is the bigger problem. Firefox and Chrome do not appear to<br>
recognize the scoped attribute on stylesheets.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Where do we use scoped attributes in the new CSS? It sounds like we should =
get rid of it in the -bis documents.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#=
888888"><br>
<br>
--Paul Hoffman<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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References: <CAMm+LwiJ35J8-4_iJxkGqF8O+g-NN=YPL+1eyjSmD1pdQifDag@mail.gmail.com> <CABkgnnUwZ2s-DiN_DiZhyjoNk6X54270Ob1jv+2B8YhQx99_Ww@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+LwjavkKWsh+VOGKiZJUyAU-qWHt7Xm2PAafaii=bfovYPg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+LwhcTuQHQgNXkur5f6oKBLSXLtG=eNNF-93eVADFxYXbCw@mail.gmail.com> <C64431E2-9995-4020-AA28-5A7AC2A046D3@vpnc.org> <CAMm+Lwjjjv7D-3XrF+it1286HtqheT13_veRb=w1VxR4-NrCAQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 22:01:12 +0200
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 2017-08-11 21:39, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> The problem is that SVG drawings almost always have an embedded style 
> sheet. And anyone who has three drawings in a document is likely to use 
> the same tool for all three. And the tools generally create styles named 
> st1, st2, etc and restart the numbering for each document.
> 
> I had no problem either. Not until I tried to use the tool on a real 
> paper that has four diagrams and then it went all kablooey.

Thanks for the details.

AFAICT, 
<https://www.greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7996.html#rfc.section.A> 
doesn't allow a style element in RFC SVG - is this something we should 
have allowed? And if so, how would it be expected to work in real world 
user agents?

Best regards, Julian
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 18:48:01 -0400
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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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Without a <style> element, svg is unusable. It is an integral part of SVG.
All the tools that produce SVG are likely to create them.


On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
wrote:

> On 2017-08-11 21:39, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
>> The problem is that SVG drawings almost always have an embedded style
>> sheet. And anyone who has three drawings in a document is likely to use the
>> same tool for all three. And the tools generally create styles named st1,
>> st2, etc and restart the numbering for each document.
>>
>> I had no problem either. Not until I tried to use the tool on a real
>> paper that has four diagrams and then it went all kablooey.
>>
>
> Thanks for the details.
>
> AFAICT, <https://www.greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7996.html#rfc.section.A>
> doesn't allow a style element in RFC SVG - is this something we should have
> allowed? And if so, how would it be expected to work in real world user
> agents?
>
> Best regards, Julian
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Wit=
hout a &lt;style&gt; element, svg is unusable. It is an integral part of SV=
G. All the tools that produce SVG are likely to create them.</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Jul=
ian Reschke <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de" =
target=3D"_blank">julian.reschke@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 2017-08-11 21:39, Phillip Hallam-B=
aker wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The problem is that SVG drawings almost always have an embedded style sheet=
. And anyone who has three drawings in a document is likely to use the same=
 tool for all three. And the tools generally create styles named st1, st2, =
etc and restart the numbering for each document.<br>
<br>
I had no problem either. Not until I tried to use the tool on a real paper =
that has four diagrams and then it went all kablooey.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Thanks for the details.<br>
<br>
AFAICT, &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7996.html#r=
fc.section.A" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.greenbytes.d=
e/tec<wbr>h/webdav/rfc7996.html#rfc.sect<wbr>ion.A</a>&gt; doesn&#39;t allo=
w a style element in RFC SVG - is this something we should have allowed? An=
d if so, how would it be expected to work in real world user agents?<br>
<br>
Best regards, Julian<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 2017-08-12 00:48, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> Without a <style> element, svg is unusable. It is an integral part of 
> SVG. All the tools that produce SVG are likely to create them.
> ...

dot (graphviz) does not.

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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 3:11 AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
wrote:

> On 2017-08-12 00:48, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
>> Without a <style> element, svg is unusable. It is an integral part of
>> SVG. All the tools that produce SVG are likely to create them.
>> ...
>>
>
> dot (graphviz) does not.
>
>
=E2=80=8BVisio does and more importantly, stylesheets are an integral part =
of the
SVG spec.
=E2=80=8B

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Au=
g 12, 2017 at 3:11 AM, Julian Reschke <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:julian.reschke@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">julian.reschke@gmx.de</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 2017-08-=
12 00:48, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
Without a &lt;style&gt; element, svg is unusable. It is an integral part of=
 SVG. All the tools that produce SVG are likely to create them.<br></span>
...<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
dot (graphviz) does not.<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8BVisio does and more importantl=
y, stylesheets are an integral part of the SVG spec.=C2=A0</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8B</div><br></div></div=
>

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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 8/11/17 3:01 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 2017-08-11 21:39, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>> The problem is that SVG drawings almost always have an embedded style 
>> sheet. And anyone who has three drawings in a document is likely to 
>> use the same tool for all three. And the tools generally create 
>> styles named st1, st2, etc and restart the numbering for each document.
>>
>> I had no problem either. Not until I tried to use the tool on a real 
>> paper that has four diagrams and then it went all kablooey.
>
> Thanks for the details.
>
> AFAICT, 
> <https://www.greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7996.html#rfc.section.A> 
> doesn't allow a style element in RFC SVG - is this something we should 
> have allowed? And if so, how would it be expected to work in real 
> world user agents?

That would seem to be an inconsistency between the prose and the schema; 
see <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7996#section-2.1>. I am almost 100% 
certain that the prose is what is intended. Relax NG schema isn't really 
my strength -- Julian, can you file an erratum and see that 
<https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/format/SVG-1.2-RFC.rnc> gets updated?

/a
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To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 2017-08-12 22:43, Adam Roach wrote:
> On 8/11/17 3:01 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 2017-08-11 21:39, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>>> The problem is that SVG drawings almost always have an embedded style 
>>> sheet. And anyone who has three drawings in a document is likely to 
>>> use the same tool for all three. And the tools generally create 
>>> styles named st1, st2, etc and restart the numbering for each document.
>>>
>>> I had no problem either. Not until I tried to use the tool on a real 
>>> paper that has four diagrams and then it went all kablooey.
>>
>> Thanks for the details.
>>
>> AFAICT, 
>> <https://www.greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7996.html#rfc.section.A> 
>> doesn't allow a style element in RFC SVG - is this something we should 
>> have allowed? And if so, how would it be expected to work in real 
>> world user agents?
> 
> That would seem to be an inconsistency between the prose and the schema; 
> see <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7996#section-2.1>. I am almost 100% 
> certain that the prose is what is intended. Relax NG schema isn't really 
> my strength -- Julian, can you file an erratum and see that 
> <https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/format/SVG-1.2-RFC.rnc> gets updated?

You are misreading the spec (IMHO):


>    <style> is a set of CSS attributes that are commonly used (by SVG
>            drawing applications).  They are not part of SVG Tiny 1.2
>            but are included here for compatibility.  Note that


This is not the same thing as a style element (but yes, the chosen 
notation is very confusing).

Best regards, Julian
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From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 20:05:00 +1000
Message-ID: <CABkgnnWKD2=dMR1y-KCPiUTK2o2Qt__4eZbiRX7Z=1-bbCJdQA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 13 August 2017 at 06:46, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>>    <style> is a set of CSS attributes that are commonly used (by SVG
>>            drawing applications).  They are not part of SVG Tiny 1.2
>>            but are included here for compatibility.  Note that
>
>
> This is not the same thing as a style element (but yes, the chosen notation
> is very confusing).

That notational convention goes beyond unfortunate into truly
abominable.  That alone is worth an erratum.
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Sooo has anyone tried actually printing the new HTML style??
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On 2017/08/13 05:46, Julian Reschke wrote:

> You are misreading the spec (IMHO):

>>    <style> is a set of CSS attributes that are commonly used (by SVG
>>            drawing applications).  They are not part of SVG Tiny 1.2
>>            but are included here for compatibility.  Note that
> 
> 
> This is not the same thing as a style element (but yes, the chosen 
> notation is very confusing).

In agreement with Martin Thomson, I'd call that a heavy miswrite, rather 
than a misread :-(.

Just as an example, the most straightforward style sheet for a simple 
SVG diagram could be something like:

<style>
   text { fill: black; stroke: none; }
   rect { fill: none; stroke: black; stroke-width: 1pt; }
</style>

That will save a lot of individual settings such as:

<text fill='black' stroke='none'>...</text>

Of course, there are some more creative ways to use styles in SVG, but 
this is just to show that even for a very, very simple diagram with some 
boxes and some text, the style element can be extremely helpful.

Regards,   Martin.
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Subject: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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My tools are not yet complete, there are several bugs and glitches to iron
out. But I thought people might like to see examples of two new drafts that
I think really show why this work is so worthwhile.

Original Format:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt-02.txt

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm-01.txt

New Format:

http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt.html

http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm.html

Major thanks to everyone who made this all possible.


The diagrams illustrating the cryptographic protocol would be simply
unreadable if attempted in ASCII art. The ability to use super and
subscripts totally matters when describing a cryptographic protocol.


My tool has only been tested on Windows so far but should run on OSX and
Linux if Mono is installed. The Git repo is here:

https://github.com/hallambaker/PHB-Build-Tools

--94eb2c1cfb4891ba950556e66da8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default">My tools are not yet complete=
, there are several bugs and glitches to iron out. But I thought people mig=
ht like to see examples of two new drafts that I think really show why this=
 work is so worthwhile.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">Original Format:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/intern=
et-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt-02.txt">https://www.ietf.org/inter=
net-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt-02.txt</a></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default"><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org=
/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm-01.txt">https://www.ietf.or=
g/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm-01.txt</a><span></span></p=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText"><span><=
/span></p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText">New Format:</p><p class=3D"gmail-=
MsoPlainText"><a href=3D"http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-=
mesh-recrypt.html" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">http://prismpro=
of.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt.html</a></p><p class=3D"gma=
il-MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href=3D"=
http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm.html">http:/=
/prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm.html</a></span><br=
></p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText">Major thanks to everyone who made this=
 all possible.</p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText"><br></p><p class=3D"gmail=
-MsoPlainText">The diagrams illustrating the cryptographic protocol would b=
e simply unreadable if attempted in ASCII art. The ability to use super and=
 subscripts totally matters when describing a cryptographic protocol.</p><p=
 class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText"><br></p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText">My to=
ol has only been tested on Windows so far but should run on OSX and Linux i=
f Mono is installed. The Git repo is here:</p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainTex=
t"><a href=3D"https://github.com/hallambaker/PHB-Build-Tools">https://githu=
b.com/hallambaker/PHB-Build-Tools</a></p><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText"><b=
r></p></div></div>

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On 8/16/17 5:29 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
> The diagrams illustrating the cryptographic protocol would be simply 
> unreadable if attempted in ASCII art. The ability to use super and 
> subscripts totally matters when describing a cryptographic protocol.
>

Aside --

The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're going to 
want to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently 
intending color to mean.

/a


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<html>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/16/17 5:29 PM, Phillip
      Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMm+LwjHw0S3ANgxyoeEGF5P5xZ0BYEdRgAE7o3jp77e9XKzBg@mail.gmail.com">
      <p class="gmail-MsoPlainText">The diagrams illustrating the
        cryptographic protocol would be simply unreadable if attempted
        in ASCII art. The ability to use super and subscripts totally
        matters when describing a cryptographic protocol.</p>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Aside --</p>
    <p>The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're
      going to want to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are
      currently intending color to mean.</p>
    <p>/a<br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>

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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:

> On 8/16/17 5:29 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
> The diagrams illustrating the cryptographic protocol would be simply
> unreadable if attempted in ASCII art. The ability to use super and
> subscripts totally matters when describing a cryptographic protocol.
>
>
> Aside --
>
> The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're going to want
> to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently intending
> color to mean.
>
Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for themselves?

Until you have a working toolset, all you have is suggestions.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Au=
g 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
dam@nostrum.com" target=3D"_blank">adam@nostrum.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><span class=3D"">
    <div class=3D"m_-7755080629118860158moz-cite-prefix">On 8/16/17 5:29 PM=
, Phillip
      Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <p class=3D"m_-7755080629118860158gmail-MsoPlainText">The diagrams il=
lustrating the
        cryptographic protocol would be simply unreadable if attempted
        in ASCII art. The ability to use super and subscripts totally
        matters when describing a cryptographic protocol.</p>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    </span><p>Aside --</p>
    <p>The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You&#39;re
      going to want to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are
      currently intending color to mean.</p></div></blockquote><div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Perhaps we should let IETF =
participants see and decide for themselves?</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">Until you have a working toolset, all you have is sugg=
estions.</div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

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On 16 Aug 2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>> The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're going to 
>> want
>> to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently 
>> intending
>> color to mean.
>>
> Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for themselves?

The IETF did that during the various discussions on draft-iab-svg-rfc, 
which became RFC 7996.

> Until you have a working toolset, all you have is suggestions.

You have an RFC to work from. If you want to re-open the discussion 
based on your experience, you can certainly do so. There is an issue 
list at:
    https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-svg-rfc-bis

--Paul Hoffman
_______________________________________________
rfc-interest mailing list
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:45:32 -0400
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To: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> wrote=
:

> On 16 Aug 2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're going to
>>> want
>>> to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently intendin=
g
>>> color to mean.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for themselves?
>>
>
> The IETF did that during the various discussions on draft-iab-svg-rfc,
> which became RFC 7996.
>
> Until you have a working toolset, all you have is suggestions.
>>
>
> You have an RFC to work from. If you want to re-open the discussion based
> on your experience, you can certainly do so. There is an issue list at:
>    https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-svg-rfc-bis


=E2=80=8BIf you really want to make things unpleasant you can always add a =
css
attribute

=E2=80=8Bsvg
 {
    -webkit-filter: grayscale(100%); /* Safari 6.0 - 9.0 */
    filter: grayscale(100%);
}=E2=80=8B

=E2=80=8BThen folk who want to can drop it out in a local stylesheet.

=E2=80=8BIt is likely that there are going to be rather more challenges for=
 using
SVG for quite some time to come.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Au=
g 16, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Paul Hoffman <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:paul.hoffman@vpnc.org" target=3D"_blank">paul.hoffman@vpnc.org</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class=
=3D"gmail-">On 16 Aug 2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"gma=
il-">
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@nost=
rum.com" target=3D"_blank">adam@nostrum.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</span><span class=3D"gmail-"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex">
The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You&#39;re going to w=
ant<br>
to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently intending<br=
>
color to mean.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for themselves?<br>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
The IETF did that during the various discussions on draft-iab-svg-rfc, whic=
h became RFC 7996.<span class=3D"gmail-"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Until you have a working toolset, all you have is suggestions.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
You have an RFC to work from. If you want to re-open the discussion based o=
n your experience, you can certainly do so. There is an issue list at:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-svg-rfc-bis=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/rfc-<wbr>format/d=
raft-iab-svg-rfc-bis</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8BIf you really want to make th=
ings unpleasant you can always add a css attribute</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><span style=3D"color:rgb(165,=
42,42);font-family:Consolas,&quot;courier new&quot;;font-size:16px"><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;display:inline">=E2=80=8Bsvg=
</div>=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;font-family:Consolas,&=
quot;courier new&quot;;font-size:16px;color:black">{</span><span style=3D"b=
ox-sizing:inherit;font-family:Consolas,&quot;courier new&quot;;font-size:16=
px;color:red"><br style=3D"box-sizing:inherit">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -webkit-f=
ilter<span style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;color:mediumblue"><span style=3D"box=
-sizing:inherit;color:black">:</span>=C2=A0grayscale(100%)<span style=3D"bo=
x-sizing:inherit;color:black">;</span></span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"box-sizin=
g:inherit;color:green">/* Safari 6.0 - 9.0 */</span><br style=3D"box-sizing=
:inherit">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 filter<span style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;color:=
mediumblue"><span style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;color:black">:</span>=C2=A0gr=
ayscale(100%)<span style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;color:black">;</span></span>=
<br style=3D"box-sizing:inherit"></span><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:Consolas,&quot;=
courier new&quot;;font-size:16px">}</span>=E2=80=8B</div><br></div><div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8BThen folk who =
want to can drop it out in a local stylesheet.</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8BIt is likely that there are going to be rath=
er more challenges for using SVG for quite some time to come.=C2=A0</div></=
div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

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To: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
References: <CAMm+LwjHw0S3ANgxyoeEGF5P5xZ0BYEdRgAE7o3jp77e9XKzBg@mail.gmail.com> <53bd401c-bb31-f549-c674-14422f2c84ba@nostrum.com> <CAMm+Lwh_rCNHYLPZ7rX4yMGWh8H0du_nLArhPp=WVNKCFDaqMg@mail.gmail.com> <E08ECE3D-5086-4FE1-A3C8-6505F8D3F4C3@vpnc.org>
From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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On 8/16/17 7:30 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>>> The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're going 
>>> to want
>>> to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently 
>>> intending
>>> color to mean.
>>>
>> Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for themselves?
>
> The IETF did that during the various discussions on draft-iab-svg-rfc, 
> which became RFC 7996. 


Well, to be clear, it was established earlier than that; cf. 
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6949#section-3.2>, list item 8. This is 
some pretty long-running consensus.

/a


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/16/17 7:30 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:E08ECE3D-5086-4FE1-A3C8-6505F8D3F4C3@vpnc.org">On 16 Aug
      2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
      <br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">On Wed, Aug 16,
        2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
          href="mailto:adam@nostrum.com" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;adam@nostrum.com&gt;</a>
        wrote:
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">The diagrams in
          the new format will not allow colors. You're going to want
          <br>
          to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently
          intending
          <br>
          color to mean.
          <br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for
        themselves?
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      The IETF did that during the various discussions on
      draft-iab-svg-rfc, which became RFC 7996.
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Well, to be clear, it was established earlier than that; cf.
      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6949#section-3.2">&lt;https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6949#section-3.2&gt;</a>, list item
      8. This is some pretty long-running consensus.<br>
    </p>
    <p>/a<br>
    </p>
  </body>
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
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To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:

> On 8/16/17 7:30 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>
> On 16 Aug 2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
> <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>
> The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're going to want
> to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently intending
> color to mean.
>
> Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for themselves?
>
>
> The IETF did that during the various discussions on draft-iab-svg-rfc,
> which became RFC 7996.
>
>
> Well, to be clear, it was established earlier than that; cf.
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6949#section-3.2>
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6949#section-3.2>, list item 8. This is
> some pretty long-running consensus.
>
Design documents have always been subject to revision in the light of
implementation experience.

Let us see how long the consensus lasts when people can see the consequence.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Au=
g 16, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Adam Roach <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
dam@nostrum.com" target=3D"_blank">adam@nostrum.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><span class=3D"">
    <div class=3D"m_-8959980954297708865moz-cite-prefix">On 8/16/17 7:30 PM=
, Paul Hoffman wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">On 16 Aug
      2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
      <br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"color:#000000">On Wed, Aug 16,
        2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <a class=3D"m_-8959980954297708865moz-t=
xt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:adam@nostrum.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;ad=
am@nostrum.com&gt;</a>
        wrote:
        <br>
        <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"color:#000000">The diagrams in
          the new format will not allow colors. You&#39;re going to want
          <br>
          to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently
          intending
          <br>
          color to mean.
          <br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for
        themselves?
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      The IETF did that during the various discussions on
      draft-iab-svg-rfc, which became RFC 7996.
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    </span><p>Well, to be clear, it was established earlier than that; cf.
      <a class=3D"m_-8959980954297708865moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6949#section-3.2" target=3D"_blank">&lt;https://=
tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>rfc6949#section-3.2&gt;</a>, list item
      8. This is some pretty long-running consensus.</p></div></blockquote>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Design documen=
ts have always been subject to revision in the light of implementation expe=
rience.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Let us see =
how long the consensus lasts when people can see the consequence.</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><br></div></div>

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To: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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Note that at least one IAB member at the time thought the plan was to modify the rfcs in question in light of experience.  I believe said IAB member made this point at a plenary.  

-- 
Andrew Sullivan 
Please excuse my clumbsy thums. 

> On Aug 16, 2017, at 20:30, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 16 Aug 2017, at 17:22, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>>> The diagrams in the new format will not allow colors. You're going to want
>>> to use some other mechanism to indicate what you are currently intending
>>> color to mean.
>>> 
>> Perhaps we should let IETF participants see and decide for themselves?
> 
> The IETF did that during the various discussions on draft-iab-svg-rfc, which became RFC 7996.
> 
>> Until you have a working toolset, all you have is suggestions.
> 
> You have an RFC to work from. If you want to re-open the discussion based on your experience, you can certainly do so. There is an issue list at:
>   https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-svg-rfc-bis
> 
> --Paul Hoffman
> _______________________________________________
> rfc-interest mailing list
> rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest

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On 17 August 2017 at 11:13, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> wrote:
> Note that at least one IAB member at the time thought the plan was to modify the rfcs in question in light of experience.  I believe said IAB member made this point at a plenary.

So rather than leaning on past precent, I have to say that the
difficulty of getting colour right here exceeds the value it brings at
this point in time.  I'm not sure, but those people with trouble
distinguishing red and green would find this particular draft
challenging.
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On 8/16/17 8:13 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> Note that at least one IAB member at the time thought the plan was to modify the rfcs in question in light of experience.  I believe said IAB member made this point at a plenary.


Sure -- my understanding of the plan is to have revised versions of all 
of the documents out now that we've had time to poke at their practical 
impact.  However, unless you've found a way to let my laser printer 
produce colors, and additionally come up with a miracle cure for the 
red-green colorblindness that impacts a non-trivial percentage of the 
general population, it's going to be hard arguing that there's 
experiential reasons to revisit this *specific* requirement.

/a

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From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
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To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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Sure. I was just objecting to the "there's an RFC, shut up and change your stuff" message.  The reason not to use colour is because of printing and colour blind people, not because The RFC Sez. 

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan 
Please excuse my clumbsy thums. 

> On Aug 16, 2017, at 21:20, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 8/16/17 8:13 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
>> Note that at least one IAB member at the time thought the plan was to modify the rfcs in question in light of experience.  I believe said IAB member made this point at a plenary.
> 
> 
> Sure -- my understanding of the plan is to have revised versions of all of the documents out now that we've had time to poke at their practical impact.  However, unless you've found a way to let my laser printer produce colors, and additionally come up with a miracle cure for the red-green colorblindness that impacts a non-trivial percentage of the general population, it's going to be hard arguing that there's experiential reasons to revisit this *specific* requirement.
> 
> /a
> 

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References: <CAMm+LwjHw0S3ANgxyoeEGF5P5xZ0BYEdRgAE7o3jp77e9XKzBg@mail.gmail.com> <53bd401c-bb31-f549-c674-14422f2c84ba@nostrum.com> <CAMm+Lwh_rCNHYLPZ7rX4yMGWh8H0du_nLArhPp=WVNKCFDaqMg@mail.gmail.com> <E08ECE3D-5086-4FE1-A3C8-6505F8D3F4C3@vpnc.org> <A2437EC1-6074-419F-B9A1-016EF7732CFB@anvilwalrusden.com> <c80e74a6-f1b3-fcb0-b3bc-999e49036ece@nostrum.com> <FA1ADAEF-7BDB-4A16-AFE3-985231B52B7C@anvilwalrusden.com>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
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To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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If people are colorblind, they are not going to know. So they are only
going to care if someone lets on. Or they don't understand the document.

If Mozilla can't afford a color printer then I will assume that paper is
also scarce.

Since the experimental stylesheet on GitHub produced white text on a white
background on the first two browsers I used, it does not appear that the
ability to print has been of significant concern. As I was merely trying to
produce a pdf, this was rather irritating.

My docs do at least print. So I am ahead of the game.


What I do resent is the unfounded claim that the documents cannot be read
by people who are colorblind. If you look, you will see that the Red and
Green buttons in confirm have 'accept' and 'reject' labels. And Bob who has
left the President's advisory doodah is not just red, he has a great big
cross through him.

The use of color in Figure 7 was an oversight. I had corrected the source
document but had not saved the new SVG version. My tool chain does not
support extraction of SVG images from Visio at the moment (it does support
PNG). The tools are only automatic up to the point of producing the HTML
and XML. I have not got round to integrating the push to the web site.


Given that people like me have had to put up with unreadable crud for
decades and nobody seems to have cared, I find the 'concern' for
accessibility rather suspicious. The W3C has been committed to
accessibility for decades with full time staff. They use color in their
documents to make them *more* accessible.

I was going to fix some bugs tonight but now I am going to add support for
PNGs instead. And I am going to enjoy it.


On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
wrote:

> Sure. I was just objecting to the "there's an RFC, shut up and change your
> stuff" message.  The reason not to use colour is because of printing and
> colour blind people, not because The RFC Sez.
>
> A
>
> --
> Andrew Sullivan
> Please excuse my clumbsy thums.
>
> > On Aug 16, 2017, at 21:20, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/16/17 8:13 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> >> Note that at least one IAB member at the time thought the plan was to
> modify the rfcs in question in light of experience.  I believe said IAB
> member made this point at a plenary.
> >
> >
> > Sure -- my understanding of the plan is to have revised versions of all
> of the documents out now that we've had time to poke at their practical
> impact.  However, unless you've found a way to let my laser printer produce
> colors, and additionally come up with a miracle cure for the red-green
> colorblindness that impacts a non-trivial percentage of the general
> population, it's going to be hard arguing that there's experiential reasons
> to revisit this *specific* requirement.
> >
> > /a
> >
>
>

--001a113fb69cdff8510556e9ace3
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">If =
people are colorblind, they are not going to know. So they are only going t=
o care if someone lets on. Or they don&#39;t understand the document.</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">If Mozilla can&#39;t afford a =
color printer then I will assume that paper is also scarce.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small">Since the experimental stylesheet on Git=
Hub produced white text on a white background on the first two browsers I u=
sed, it does not appear that the ability to print has been of significant c=
oncern. As I was merely trying to produce a pdf, this was rather irritating=
.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">My docs do at least pri=
nt. So I am ahead of the game.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:s=
mall"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">What=
 I do resent is the unfounded claim that the documents cannot be read by pe=
ople who are colorblind. If you look, you will see that the Red and Green b=
uttons in confirm have &#39;accept&#39; and &#39;reject&#39; labels. And Bo=
b who has left the President&#39;s advisory doodah is not just red, he has =
a great big cross through him.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:s=
mall">The use of color in Figure 7 was an oversight. I had corrected the so=
urce document but had not saved the new SVG version. My tool chain does not=
 support extraction of SVG images from Visio at the moment (it does support=
 PNG). The tools are only automatic up to the point of producing the HTML a=
nd XML. I have not got round to integrating the push to the web site.</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small">Given that people like me have had to pu=
t up with unreadable crud for decades and nobody seems to have cared, I fin=
d the &#39;concern&#39; for accessibility rather suspicious. The W3C has be=
en committed to accessibility for decades with full time staff. They use co=
lor in their documents to make them <i><u>more</u></i> accessible.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I was going to fix some bugs toni=
ght but now I am going to add support for PNGs instead. And I am going to e=
njoy it.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></=
div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed,=
 Aug 16, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Andrew Sullivan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target=3D"_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sure. I was just objec=
ting to the &quot;there&#39;s an RFC, shut up and change your stuff&quot; m=
essage.=C2=A0 The reason not to use colour is because of printing and colou=
r blind people, not because The RFC Sez.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
A<br>
</font></span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
--<br>
Andrew Sullivan<br>
Please excuse my clumbsy thums.<br>
<br>
</span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">&gt; On Aug 16, 2017, at 21:=
20, Adam Roach &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@nostrum.com">adam@nostrum.com</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 8/16/17 8:13 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Note that at least one IAB member at the time thought the plan was=
 to modify the rfcs in question in light of experience.=C2=A0 I believe sai=
d IAB member made this point at a plenary.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sure -- my understanding of the plan is to have revised versions of al=
l of the documents out now that we&#39;ve had time to poke at their practic=
al impact.=C2=A0 However, unless you&#39;ve found a way to let my laser pri=
nter produce colors, and additionally come up with a miracle cure for the r=
ed-green colorblindness that impacts a non-trivial percentage of the genera=
l population, it&#39;s going to be hard arguing that there&#39;s experienti=
al reasons to revisit this *specific* requirement.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; /a<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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On 8/16/17 6:29 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> My tools are not yet complete, there are several bugs and glitches to 
> iron out. But I thought people might like to see examples of two new 
> drafts that I think really show why this work is so worthwhile.
> 
> Original Format:
> 
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt-02.txt
> 
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm-01.txt
> 
> New Format:
> 
> http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt.html
> 
> http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm.html
> 
> Major thanks to everyone who made this all possible.

The html renders nicely, but I do have a couple of comments:

1) The TOC is nice as long as the window is wide enough. If I narrow the 
window enough it omits the content of the TOC but leaves its heading 
sort of floating over the main text. That seems fine, but I can't find 
any way to see the content of the TOC without widening the window.

2) In the normative references of draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm-01 
things get weird for the reference with a long tag. I would expect the 
wrapped content of the reference to align with the wrapped content of 
other references with shorter tags.

	Thanks,
	Paul
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From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:30:44 +1000
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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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On 17 August 2017 at 13:55, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> 1) The TOC is nice as long as the window is wide enough. If I narrow the
> window enough it omits the content of the TOC but leaves its heading sort of
> floating over the main text. That seems fine, but I can't find any way to
> see the content of the TOC without widening the window.

I had the same complaint, but my suggestion was rejected.

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfc-interest/KithtbhVtSR1Vl830IeSbqqYEpI

I still prefer the technique we use elsewhere, which is to have the
TOC render inline when the window is narrow.  See for example
https://martinthomson.github.io/http-replay/draft-thomson-http-replay.html

I was going to use
https://martinthomson.github.io/teapot/draft-thomson-teapot.html as an
example, but then I noticed that for some bizarre reason xml2rfc put
the TOC at the end of the document.
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 00:37:35 -0400
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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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--===============4761222732031773995==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113fb69c5e2ab40556eb92da"

--001a113fb69c5e2ab40556eb92da
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On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:55 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
wrote:

> On 8/16/17 6:29 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
>> My tools are not yet complete, there are several bugs and glitches to
>> iron out. But I thought people might like to see examples of two new dra=
fts
>> that I think really show why this work is so worthwhile.
>>
>> Original Format:
>>
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-
>> recrypt-02.txt
>>
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-
>> confirm-01.txt
>>
>> New Format:
>>
>> http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt.html
>>
>> http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm.html
>>
>> Major thanks to everyone who made this all possible.
>>
>
> The html renders nicely, but I do have a couple of comments:
>
> 1) The TOC is nice as long as the window is wide enough. If I narrow the
> window enough it omits the content of the TOC but leaves its heading sort
> of floating over the main text. That seems fine, but I can't find any way
> to see the content of the TOC without widening the window.
>
> 2) In the normative references of draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm-01
> things get weird for the reference with a long tag. I would expect the
> wrapped content of the reference to align with the wrapped content of oth=
er
> references with shorter tags.
>
>         Thanks,
>         Paul


I am using the experimental style sheet with minor changes to improve
readability, the headings are coloured and the print version of the text is
black on white rather than the white on white of the original. I am not a
css guru.

=E2=80=8BThe first is the Toc trying to hide itself to make room on a small=
 display
which is maybe not a bad thing.=E2=80=8B But it maybe should do it better.

The second is just a bug in my view. I don't understand why definition
lists are handled the way they are either. There is a compact style which I
would expect to try to keep the tag and definition on one line. But the
same happens for non compact which is just wrong in my view. I want the
<dd> to start a new line after the <dt>


Something that is just a bug in my processor is that the hypertext links
are not anchorized in the references section. Nor does the processor fill
in URI entries for documents that are missing them.

--001a113fb69c5e2ab40556eb92da
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Au=
g 16, 2017 at 11:55 PM, Paul Kyzivat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 8/16/17 6=
:29 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
My tools are not yet complete, there are several bugs and glitches to iron =
out. But I thought people might like to see examples of two new drafts that=
 I think really show why this work is so worthwhile.<br>
<br>
Original Format:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recr=
ypt-02.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/inter=
net-<wbr>drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-<wbr>recrypt-02.txt</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-conf=
irm-01.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/inter=
net-<wbr>drafts/draft-hallambaker-mesh-<wbr>confirm-01.txt</a><br>
<br>
New Format:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-recrypt.h=
tml" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://prismproof.org/Document<wb=
r>s/draft-hallambaker-mesh-<wbr>recrypt.html</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm.h=
tml" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://prismproof.org/Document<wb=
r>s/draft-hallambaker-mesh-<wbr>confirm.html</a><br>
<br>
Major thanks to everyone who made this all possible.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
The html renders nicely, but I do have a couple of comments:<br>
<br>
1) The TOC is nice as long as the window is wide enough. If I narrow the wi=
ndow enough it omits the content of the TOC but leaves its heading sort of =
floating over the main text. That seems fine, but I can&#39;t find any way =
to see the content of the TOC without widening the window.<br>
<br>
2) In the normative references of draft-hallambaker-mesh-confirm<wbr>-01 th=
ings get weird for the reference with a long tag. I would expect the wrappe=
d content of the reference to align with the wrapped content of other refer=
ences with shorter tags.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Paul</blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I am using the experimental style s=
heet with minor changes to improve readability, the headings are coloured a=
nd the print version of the text is black on white rather than the white on=
 white of the original. I am not a css guru.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8BThe first is the Toc trying to hide itself to=
 make room on a small display which is maybe not a bad thing.=E2=80=8B But =
it maybe should do it better.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sm=
all">The second is just a bug in my view. I don&#39;t understand why defini=
tion lists are handled the way they are either. There is a compact style wh=
ich I would expect to try to keep the tag and definition on one line. But t=
he same happens for non compact which is just wrong in my view. I want the =
&lt;dd&gt; to start a new line after the &lt;dt&gt;</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-size:small">Something that is just a bug in my processor is that the h=
ypertext links are not anchorized in the references section. Nor does the p=
rocessor fill in URI entries for documents that are missing them.</div></di=
v><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div></div>

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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Two drafts showing the advantage of the new format
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On 8/16/17 6:18 PM, Martin Thomson wrote:
> On 17 August 2017 at 11:13, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> wrote:
>> Note that at least one IAB member at the time thought the plan was to modify the rfcs in question in light of experience.  I believe said IAB member made this point at a plenary.
> So rather than leaning on past precent, I have to say that the
> difficulty of getting colour right here exceeds the value it brings at
> this point in time.  I'm not sure, but those people with trouble
> distinguishing red and green would find this particular draft
> challenging.

The challenges with color are significant, ranging from accessibility
issues to cultural sensitivities to editorial training.  Nothing in any
of those areas has changed enough for me to be willing to open the
discussion on whether or not we should start allowing color with the new
format. If nothing else, I would like to have a few years of experience
in hammering out the new format before we open up this particular can of
worms.

-Heather
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To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" <rse@rfc-editor.org>
Message-ID: <f98acda9-cbab-cf84-d657-ec5078e3d19d@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:38:18 -0700
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Subject: [rfc-i] FYI: update to the RFC citation library
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Hello all,

The RFC Editor has updated the citation library for RFCs to use "https"
instead of "http" for the target URL.

OLD:

<reference anchor="RFC0001"
target="http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1"><front><title>Host
Software</title><author initials="S." surname="Crocker" fullname="S.
Crocker"><organization/></author><date year="1969"
month="April"/></front><seriesInfo name="RFC" value="1"/><seriesInfo
name="DOI" value="10.17487/RFC0001"/></reference>

NEW:

<reference anchor="RFC0001"
target="https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1"><front><title>Host
Software</title><author initials="S." surname="Crocker" fullname="S.
Crocker"><organization/></author><date year="1969"
month="April"/></front><seriesInfo name="RFC" value="1"/><seriesInfo
name="DOI" value="10.17487/RFC0001"/></reference>

Please let us know if you have any questions,

Heather Flanagan, RSE


--------------E6664574FB5098244BBE92C2
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <pre wrap="">Hello all,

The RFC Editor has updated the citation library for RFCs to use "https"
instead of "http" for the target URL.

OLD:

&lt;reference anchor="RFC0001"
target=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1">"http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1"</a>&gt;&lt;front&gt;&lt;title&gt;Host
Software&lt;/title&gt;&lt;author initials="S." surname="Crocker" fullname="S.
Crocker"&gt;&lt;organization/&gt;&lt;/author&gt;&lt;date year="1969"
month="April"/&gt;&lt;/front&gt;&lt;seriesInfo name="RFC" value="1"/&gt;&lt;seriesInfo
name="DOI" value="10.17487/RFC0001"/&gt;&lt;/reference&gt;

NEW:

&lt;reference anchor="RFC0001"
target=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1">"https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1"</a>&gt;&lt;front&gt;&lt;title&gt;Host
Software&lt;/title&gt;&lt;author initials="S." surname="Crocker" fullname="S.
Crocker"&gt;&lt;organization/&gt;&lt;/author&gt;&lt;date year="1969"
month="April"/&gt;&lt;/front&gt;&lt;seriesInfo name="RFC" value="1"/&gt;&lt;seriesInfo
name="DOI" value="10.17487/RFC0001"/&gt;&lt;/reference&gt;

Please let us know if you have any questions,

Heather Flanagan, RSE
</pre>
  </body>
</html>

--------------E6664574FB5098244BBE92C2--

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_______________________________________________
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Subject: [rfc-i] Non-contiguous URL numbers in text format
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--089e082461d4f4487b0557d7f846
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi RFC folks,

If this isn't the right place to report a bug with xml2rfc, please
point me toward the right place. I found you via
https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html.

The attached XML (generated via kramdown-rfc2629 from the attached
markdown) produces URLs [1] and [3], but not [2]. The three links are:

<t><eref target="https://example.com/link1">Link 1</eref></t>
<t><eref target="https://example.com/link2">https://example.com/link2</eref></t>
<t><eref target="mailto:link2@example.com">link2@example.com</eref></t>

And from that `xml2rfc test.xml` generates the following text:

1.  Introduction

   Link 1 [1]

   https://example.com/link2

   link2@example.com [3]

2.  References

2.1.  URIs

   [1] https://example.com/link1

   [3] mailto:link2@example.com

Jeffrey

--089e082461d4f4487b0557d7f846
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From: Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@chromium.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 16:43:01 -0700
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Non-contiguous URL numbers in text format
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Here's another example where similar links actually cause the citations to
fail to match:

...
    <note title="Note to Readers">
<t>The source code and issues list for this draft can be found
in <eref target="https://github.com/org/repo">https://github.com/org/repo
</eref>.</t>
    </note>
  </front>
  <middle>
<section anchor="introduction" title="Introduction">
<t><eref target="https://this.is.2.in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/
">Misnumbered</eref></t>
...


Produces:

1.  Introduction

   Misnumbered [2]

2.  References

2.1.  URIs

   [1] https://this.is.2.in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/



On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@chromium.org>
wrote:

> Hi RFC folks,
>
> If this isn't the right place to report a bug with xml2rfc, please
> point me toward the right place. I found you via
> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html.
>
> The attached XML (generated via kramdown-rfc2629 from the attached
> markdown) produces URLs [1] and [3], but not [2]. The three links are:
>
> <t><eref target="https://example.com/link1">Link 1</eref></t>
> <t><eref target="https://example.com/link2">https://example.com/link2
> </eref></t>
> <t><eref target="mailto:link2@example.com">link2@example.com</eref></t>
>
> And from that `xml2rfc test.xml` generates the following text:
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>    Link 1 [1]
>
>    https://example.com/link2
>
>    link2@example.com [3]
>
> 2.  References
>
> 2.1.  URIs
>
>    [1] https://example.com/link1
>
>    [3] mailto:link2@example.com
>
> Jeffrey
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Here&#39;s another example where similar links actually ca=
use the citations to fail to match:<div><br></div><div>...</div><div><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;note title=3D&quot;Note to Readers&quot;&gt;</div><div>&l=
t;t&gt;The source code and issues list for this draft can be found</div><di=
v>in &lt;eref target=3D&quot;<a href=3D"https://github.com/org/repo">https:=
//github.com/org/repo</a>&quot;&gt;<a href=3D"https://github.com/org/repo">=
https://github.com/org/repo</a>&lt;/eref&gt;.&lt;/t&gt;</div><div>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 &lt;/note&gt;</div><div>=C2=A0 &lt;/front&gt;</div><div>=C2=A0 &lt;m=
iddle&gt;</div><div>&lt;section anchor=3D&quot;introduction&quot; title=3D&=
quot;Introduction&quot;&gt;</div><div>&lt;t&gt;&lt;eref target=3D&quot;<a h=
ref=3D"https://this.is.2.in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/">https://this.is.2.=
in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/</a>&quot;&gt;Misnumbered&lt;/eref&gt;&lt;/t&=
gt;</div></div><div>...</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Produces:</=
div><div><br></div><div><div>1.=C2=A0 Introduction</div><div><br></div><div=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Misnumbered [2]</div><div><br></div><div>2.=C2=A0 References<=
/div><div><br></div><div>2.1.=C2=A0 URIs</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0[1] <a href=3D"https://this.is.2.in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/">http=
s://this.is.2.in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/</a></div></div><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jyasskin@chromium.org" target=3D"_blank">jyasskin@chromiu=
m.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi RFC folks,=
<br>
<br>
If this isn&#39;t the right place to report a bug with xml2rfc, please<br>
point me toward the right place. I found you via<br>
<a href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.<wbr>org/experimental.htm=
l</a>.<br>
<br>
The attached XML (generated via kramdown-rfc2629 from the attached<br>
markdown) produces URLs [1] and [3], but not [2]. The three links are:<br>
<br>
&lt;t&gt;&lt;eref target=3D&quot;<a href=3D"https://example.com/link1" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://example.com/<wbr>link1</a>&quot;&=
gt;Link 1&lt;/eref&gt;&lt;/t&gt;<br>
&lt;t&gt;&lt;eref target=3D&quot;<a href=3D"https://example.com/link2" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://example.com/<wbr>link2</a>&quot;&=
gt;<a href=3D"https://example.com/link2" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://example.com/<wbr>link2</a>&lt;/eref&gt;&lt;/t&gt;<br>
&lt;t&gt;&lt;eref target=3D&quot;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:link2@example.com=
">link2@example.<wbr>com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href=3D"mailto:link2@example.com">=
link2@example.com</a>&lt;/eref&gt;&lt;<wbr>/t&gt;<br>
<br>
And from that `xml2rfc test.xml` generates the following text:<br>
<br>
1.=C2=A0 Introduction<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link 1 [1]<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://example.com/link2" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://example.com/link2</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:link2@example.com">link2@example.com</a> [3]=
<br>
<br>
2.=C2=A0 References<br>
<br>
2.1.=C2=A0 URIs<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[1] <a href=3D"https://example.com/link1" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://example.com/link1</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[3] mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:link2@example.com">link2@example.=
com</a><br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Jeffrey<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>
To: Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@chromium.org>, "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
Thread-Topic: [rfc-i] Non-contiguous URL numbers in text format
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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 02:34:33 +0000
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Non-contiguous URL numbers in text format
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From: Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@chromium.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 20:00:34 -0700
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To: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Non-contiguous URL numbers in text format
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Done, thanks!

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/334
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/335
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/336

Jeffrey

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:34 PM, HANSEN, TONY L <tony@att.com> wrote:
> Please file a trac issue at https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/
>
>
>
> Be sure to attach your files to the ticket.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>                 Tony Hansen
>
>
>
> From: rfc-interest <rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org> on behalf of
> Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@chromium.org>
> Date: Monday, August 28, 2017 at 7:43 PM
> To: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
> Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Non-contiguous URL numbers in text format
>
>
>
> Here's another example where similar links actually cause the citations to
> fail to match:
>
>
>
> ...
>
>     <note title="Note to Readers">
>
> <t>The source code and issues list for this draft can be found
>
> in <eref
> target="https://github.com/org/repo">https://github.com/org/repo</eref>.</t>
>
>     </note>
>
>   </front>
>
>   <middle>
>
> <section anchor="introduction" title="Introduction">
>
> <t><eref
> target="https://this.is.2.in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/">Misnumbered</eref></t>
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> Produces:
>
>
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>
>
>    Misnumbered [2]
>
>
>
> 2.  References
>
>
>
> 2.1.  URIs
>
>
>
>    [1] https://this.is.2.in/the/body/but/1/in/the/refs/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@chromium.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hi RFC folks,
>
> If this isn't the right place to report a bug with xml2rfc, please
> point me toward the right place. I found you via
> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html.
>
> The attached XML (generated via kramdown-rfc2629 from the attached
> markdown) produces URLs [1] and [3], but not [2]. The three links are:
>
> <t><eref target="https://example.com/link1">Link 1</eref></t>
> <t><eref
> target="https://example.com/link2">https://example.com/link2</eref></t>
> <t><eref target="mailto:link2@example.com">link2@example.com</eref></t>
>
> And from that `xml2rfc test.xml` generates the following text:
>
> 1.  Introduction
>
>    Link 1 [1]
>
>    https://example.com/link2
>
>    link2@example.com [3]
>
> 2.  References
>
> 2.1.  URIs
>
>    [1] https://example.com/link1
>
>    [3] mailto:link2@example.com
>
> Jeffrey
>
>
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