From nobody Wed Jun 1 06:32:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FC112D0B9 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 06:32:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.626 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.626 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rno-sA5c0MGn for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 06:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ls-mx3.csir.co.za (mx-3.csir.co.za [146.64.10.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F89612D1B5 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 06:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pta-imo.csir.co.za (pta-imo.csir.co.za [146.64.100.49]) by ls-mx3.csir.co.za (8.14.3/8.14.3/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id u51DBIXN028801 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 15:11:26 +0200 Received: from PTA-IMO-MTA by pta-imo.csir.co.za with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:11:06 +0200 Message-Id: <574EFB070200004D000ED8B8@pta-imo.csir.co.za> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 14.0.2 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:11:03 +0200 From: "Ralf Globisch" To: , References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E063E0@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E063E0@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (ls-mx3.csir.co.za [146.64.10.248]); Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:11:45 +0200 (SAST) X-CSIR-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-CSIR-MailScanner-ID: u51DBIXN028801 X-CSIR-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-CSIR-MailScanner-From: rglobisch@csir.co.za X-CSIR-MailScanner-Watermark: 1465391609.73634@TjH33rZVvLPefv9+1f+vRQ Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2016 13:32:09 -0000 Hi Ingemar, > And thanks for the effort, worth a lot.=20 Great, I was just interested in seeing how the proposed rmcat congestion co= ntrol mechanisms work in the 'real' world. When running RTP sessions between my home ADSL line and my work, I would ge= t results every now and againwhere the rate would increase nicely up to a c= ouple of 100kbps, but most of the time, it would try to increase and then just stay at 50 kbps. It could however just have been the state of= the network, ADSL, time of day, etc. > I assume that you have used the C++ code (https://github.com/EricssonResearch/scream) in your implementation? Yes, correct, though I made some minor modifications to be able to compile = it on linux without the glib dependency. > 50kbps is a very low bitrate for video, there are a few things that can > cause extra trouble.=20 > + RTCP overhead. At bitrates this low it is sufficient with feedback > intervals around 200ms, furthermore reduced size RTCP (RFC5506) is highly= > recommended, this will give you an RTCP overhead of ~3-5kbps, so a > recommendation is that you have a look at how much bandwidth RTCP consume= s. > Is reduced size RTCP implemented in your RTP library ?, it is implemented= in > the GStreamer libraries if you wish to have a look at how it is done. Yes, I have implemented reduced size RTCP. I do have some code to measure R= TCP rates.Let me come back to you on this one. > + RTP overhead. The function getTargetBitrate has a comment in the header= file > This means that, if the size argument in the addTransmitted function > includes also the size of the RTP header (+ possible extensions) then the > computed bitrate is the bitrate with the RTP overhead included. This means > that you need to subtract the bitrate given by the RTP overhead when you > compute the video coder bitrate. The function to compute the video coder > bitrate is thus. > videoBitrate =3D getTargetBitrate(..)+rtpOverheadBitrate. > A somewhat better alternative, used in the OpenWebRTC implementation is to > use the RTP payload size as input to the addTransmitted(..) function. Ok, I didn't take only payload size into account. Will look at this too. =20 > + Video coder output. My grim experience is that the video coder does not > always output the desired target bitrate, variations around the target > bitrate is natural but in some cases I have seen that the output bitrate = is > consistently 10-20% above the target bitrate, for that reason it could be > good to compute and log the video coder output bitrate. In some cases the > video coders are in a non-rate adaptive mode or have the internal rate > control tuned too slow, this is a tuning matter. I have fiddled a bit with > OpenH264 and VP8, which video codec do you use ? I can't remember offhand what I was using at the time. I had written some C= BR video traffic=20 generators, and played around with various H.264 codec implementations, x26= 4, OpenH264,=20 and our own H.264 codec that can be configured to output exact bytes/frame = which is useful=20 for low bitrate video configurations. > I have only tried out these low bitrates with the experimental code, the > code is adapted for audio streaming so it should not be any problems to > congestion control video over 50kbps bottlenecks.=20 Ok. > With the OpenWebRTC implementation I managed to push down the bottleneck > bitrate down to 200kbps. The problem there is that I did not have full > control over the RTP stack and that RTCP tended to consume too much > bandwidth. Ok. Are you're using RFC4585? And what is the frequency of RTCP reports? > That said, there are probably some yet to discover issues, it is not too > unlikely that you have found an issue in SCReAM but one probably need to > rule out the possible issues above before.=20 For sure, I've been meaning to get back to my experiments. You've motivated= me to get the experiments back up and running and look into it further. =20 > Is your fork available somewhere ?, could be interesting to try it out as you have integrated it into an RTP library. The fork only has minor modifications: - added CMake build files though I've only tested the build on linux. Some = modifications might be necessary for windows compilation. - replaced glib-specific types with std c++ types.=20 It's available at https://github.com/miseri/scream =20 I think more interesting would be the code where I've wrapped up the SCReAM= classes for use in the RTP library.It could well be that I'm using the SCR= eAM classes incorrectly or in an unintended way. I could share this with you off-list if you're interested? Regards Ralf =20 =20 =20 "Ralf Globisch" Tue, 31 May 2016 19:14 UTC Show header Ingemar, for what it's worth, I forked the SCReAM code on github and integrated it into an RTP library. I ran some preliminary tests streaming video over my home ADSL line, but often found that the algorithm struggled to stream at higher rates than the minimum (in my case I used 50kbps as the minimum).=20 If I understand correctly, the algorithm is designed for use over mobile networks and not ADSL though.=20 If you're interested, perhaps we could investigate the behaviour of the algorithm on other network types, etc. It could be that some fine-tuning, etc is needed to make it work in such cases. Of course it could also be, that I was not using your code as intended... =20 =20 =20 --=20 This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mai= l legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard.=20 The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaime= r.html. This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScan= ner,=20 and is believed to be clean. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From nobody Wed Jun 1 07:25:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D121B12D4FC for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 07:25:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, ENCRYPTED_MESSAGE=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwk11MeyB2I8 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 07:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0933E12D59C for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 07:25:35 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79f26d00000327e-3f-574ef05e9626 Received: from ESESSHC016.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.66]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D7.68.12926.E50FE475; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 16:25:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.112]) by ESESSHC016.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.66]) with mapi id 14.03.0294.000; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 16:25:33 +0200 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: "rglobisch@csir.co.za" , "rmcat@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RE: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward Thread-Index: AdG7zSIEwGYie1rzTzytlPrJBLhKfAAKSbmAAAYA/OA= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 14:25:33 +0000 Message-ID: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E073C5@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E063E0@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <574EFB070200004D000ED8B8@pta-imo.csir.co.za> In-Reply-To: <574EFB070200004D000ED8B8@pta-imo.csir.co.za> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.17] Content-Type: application/pkcs7-mime; smime-type=signed-data; name="smime.p7m" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7m" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7k27cB79wg/ntYhbvJzayWKy++YHN gcljw+5pjB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mo4uXgDS8GFKYwVE/dNZmxgfDGBsYuRk0NC wERi6bun7BC2mMSFe+vZuhi5OIQEjjBKTDx0jRHCWcwoMXv2frAqNgEbiZWHvoN1iwiESZz5 18oCYjMLWEl8Of6XGcQWFjCTuND9hQWixlzia/8xJgjbSuJR0x5WEJtFQEWi5cdNsBpeAV+J tYc2gdUICdRKPJ8xAWwXJ1D92+PbwXYxCshK3P9+D2qXuMStJ/OZIK4WkXh48TQbhC0q8fLx P6D5HEC2osTyfjmI8gCJCRdvsELYphLbvl2FGqMoMaX7ITvECYISJ2c+YZnAKD4LyYZZSNpn IWmfhaR9FpL2BYysqxhFi1OLk3LTjYz1Uosyk4uL8/P08lJLNjECY+7glt+qOxgvv3E8xCjA wajEw5vA6RcuxJpYVlyZe4hRBWjmow2rLzBKseTl56UqifByvgBK86YkVlalFuXHF5XmpBYf YpTmYFES5/V/qRguJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk2Xi4JRqYOSZc3DudW1+B4vN29JEWmtKNzhOr9v8 Sy72vQ+X8g3Z9Y52T94fk34a+qgtMWjBqxvvv0/qzeiIMl+ircv8tKkwqJzvjqArj++v8x+T HmW2JFxQuLD0UOKVqe2di3TDGDZ8/eHt12XncMXzcuAUpqVuLTueOy9a/9NMrUbBb28JX5PQ xDm3U5VYijMSDbWYi4oTAereGTjBAgAA Archived-At: Cc: Ingemar Johansson S Subject: Re: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." 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Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2AFA12D8B1; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 16:09:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160602230944.10681.73310.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 16:09:44 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net, anna.brunstrom@kau.se, rmcat@ietf.org Subject: [rmcat] rmcat - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 96 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 23:09:45 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Anna Brunstrom, a Chair of the rmcat working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Anna Brunstrom Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: rtcweb avtcore avtext tcpinc tcpm aqm taps tsvarea tsvwg iccrg maprg netvc perc Second Priority: tram mmusic ippm mptcp clue raiarea dispatch httpbis Third Priority: irtfopen Special Requests: Avoid transport BOFs. A meeting time early in the week is preferred. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Jun 3 01:50:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA8F12D606 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 01:50:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.407 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.407 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TmrGBwhn6ufH for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 01:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ls-mx3.csir.co.za (unknown [146.64.10.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D93812D57C for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 01:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pta-imo.csir.co.za (pta-imo.csir.co.za [146.64.100.49]) by ls-mx3.csir.co.za (8.14.3/8.14.3/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id u538nVEv000339 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:49:33 +0200 Received: from PTA-IMO-MTA by pta-imo.csir.co.za with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 10:49:24 +0200 Message-Id: <575160B00200004D000EDE37@pta-imo.csir.co.za> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 14.0.2 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 10:49:20 +0200 From: "Ralf Globisch" To: , References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E063E0@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <574EFB070200004D000ED8B8@pta-imo.csir.co.za> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E073C5@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E073C5@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (ls-mx3.csir.co.za [146.64.10.248]); Fri, 03 Jun 2016 10:49:33 +0200 (SAST) X-CSIR-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-CSIR-MailScanner-ID: u538nVEv000339 X-CSIR-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-CSIR-MailScanner-From: rglobisch@csir.co.za X-CSIR-MailScanner-Watermark: 1465548576.4324@+bY/GlrGXzCY8/U0o8Zs3A Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 08:50:10 -0000 Hi Ingemar, Responses inline. > [IJ] Great, that can play a role, SCReAM can compensate for minor errors = but > if they become too bit and systematic then the rate/congestion control be= comes > confused. Ok, cool, will keep this in mind when running my next round of tests. > [IJ] The OpenWebRTC implementation seemed to set the RTCP BW > proportional to the RTP media rate, I suspect that it was those 5%. The > problem is that this was way too low in the beginning and caused choppy v= ideo > in the beginning, after a while the feedback interval became unnecessary.= As I > understood things RFC4585 is implemented but not 100% sure. The best is to > steer the RTCP feedback according to the outlined function on page 14 in > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-rmcat-1.pdf . trr-int > should be a set to sufficiently high value to avoid that full compound RT= CP is > transmitted too often, 500ms should be sufficient in your case. Ok. > [IJ] Sure, I'll be interested to do a testrun if I manage to build it. Ok, I'll see if I can put a release together for testing. I'm just a bit s= wamped with=20 work at the moment, so it might take me a while to get to it. On the way forward, I will take your feedback into account, and get in touc= h if I have any questions regarding the behaviour/tweaking of SCReAM. We're intending to look at how = it performs especially=20 over EDGE/3G/H+ which are prevalent in developing contexts. Regards, Ralf --=20 This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mai= l legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard.=20 The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaime= r.html. This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScan= ner,=20 and is believed to be clean. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From nobody Wed Jun 8 06:43:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E05012D8CD for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H3oD87WQCLHv for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F33C12D5FB for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:43:25 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79486d0000069d0-4f-575820fc4d5f Received: from ESESSHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.21]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 55.EA.27088.CF028575; Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:43:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.112]) by ESESSHC001.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.21]) with mapi id 14.03.0294.000; Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:43:23 +0200 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: "rglobisch@csir.co.za" , "rmcat@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RE: RE: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward Thread-Index: AdG7zSIEwGYie1rzTzytlPrJBLhKfAAKSbmAAAYA/OAAVXBLAAEJUXyA Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 13:43:23 +0000 Message-ID: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E124EB@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E063E0@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <574EFB070200004D000ED8B8@pta-imo.csir.co.za> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E073C5@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <575160B00200004D000EDE37@pta-imo.csir.co.za> In-Reply-To: <575160B00200004D000EDE37@pta-imo.csir.co.za> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.16] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupkkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbFdVPePQkS4wZ0jihbvJzayWKy++YHN gcljw+5pjB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mq4eHEJc8Ei0YpL7cuZGxh/CHQxcnJICJhI 7J93kRHCFpO4cG89WxcjF4eQwBFGiadzl7JDOIsZJe6+6WMFqWITsJFYeeg7WIeIQJjEmX+t LCA2s4CVxJfjf5lBbGEge8/7g0xdjBxANdYS65coQZS7SayfuxuslUVAReLGgW1MIDavgK/E qhddjBC7PjJKXJt+EWwmJ9Cc3rmtYA2MArIS97/fg9olLnHryXwmiKsFJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8 jxXCVpTYebadGaJeR2LB7k9sELa2xLKFr5khFgtKnJz5hGUCo9gsJGNnIWmZhaRlFpKWBYws qxhFi1OLk3LTjYz0Uosyk4uL8/P08lJLNjECI+jglt8GOxhfPnc8xCjAwajEw/vAOTxciDWx rLgy9xCjBAezkgivjkxEuBBvSmJlVWpRfnxRaU5q8SFGaQ4WJXFe/5eK4UIC6YklqdmpqQWp RTBZJg5OqQbGsG0Sy6f1fH0kuJ0tSWlTN/P3U2dNovb+W32fexsXY/Xjb9rXFQS3dD0Jyag7 pXxLWixkY2SY6QyOc2ZWE+2c5zHfC6l/FjvX+majy5Hm9PPNNkpOx/5w/sh66D7FzipfSqHs x/KQ6K8f7QUPZfm5Fe9UVe5LPlqf+HDjvLBWY5EjlSnem6SVWIozEg21mIuKEwFNkYw6nAIA AA== Archived-At: Cc: Ingemar Johansson S Subject: Re: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 13:43:31 -0000 Hi Ralf Thanks, It will be interesting to see what results you get with EDGE/3G/H+.= =20 Unfortunately I don't have any real test results with wireless access avail= able. I have done simulations with LTE and HSDPA+EUL. LTE should work fine = and HSPA should be doable too. It can be a challenge to get video working over EDGE but it may work. Pleas= e let me know your findings. Regards /Ingemar > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralf Globisch [mailto:rglobisch@csir.co.za] > Sent: den 3 juni 2016 10:49 > To: Ingemar Johansson S ; > rmcat@ietf.org > Subject: Re: RE: RE: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward >=20 > Hi Ingemar, >=20 > Responses inline. >=20 > > [IJ] Great, that can play a role, SCReAM can compensate for minor > > errors but if they become too bit and systematic then the > > rate/congestion control becomes confused. >=20 > Ok, cool, will keep this in mind when running my next round of tests. >=20 > > [IJ] The OpenWebRTC implementation seemed to set the RTCP BW > > proportional to the RTP media rate, I suspect that it was those 5%. > > The problem is that this was way too low in the beginning and caused > > choppy video in the beginning, after a while the feedback interval > > became unnecessary. As I understood things RFC4585 is implemented but > > not 100% sure. The best is to steer the RTCP feedback according to the > > outlined function on page 14 in > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-rmcat-1.pdf . > > trr-int should be a set to sufficiently high value to avoid that full c= ompound > RTCP is transmitted too often, 500ms should be sufficient in your case. >=20 > Ok. >=20 > > [IJ] Sure, I'll be interested to do a testrun if I manage to build it. >=20 > Ok, I'll see if I can put a release together for testing. I'm just a bit= swamped > with work at the moment, so it might take me a while to get to it. >=20 > On the way forward, I will take your feedback into account, and get in to= uch > if I have any questions regarding the behaviour/tweaking of SCReAM. We're > intending to look at how it performs especially over EDGE/3G/H+ which are > prevalent in developing contexts. >=20 > Regards, > Ralf >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-m= ail > legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. > The full disclaimer details can be found at > http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. >=20 > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >=20 > Please consider the environment before printing this email. From nobody Thu Jun 9 05:55:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDACD12D0B1; Thu, 9 Jun 2016 05:55:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160609125545.16839.53149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 05:55:45 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org Subject: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-04.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 12:55:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques of the IETF. Title : Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia Authors : Ingemar Johansson Zaheduzzaman Sarker Filename : draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-04.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2016-06-09 Abstract: This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a LTE (Long Term Evolution) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 9 06:07:14 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1CF12D5D0 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2016 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ixq-obNDQmIv for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2016 06:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51E8412D5FF for ; 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Mon, 13 Jun 2016 06:18:34 +0000 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: "rglobisch@csir.co.za" Thread-Topic: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward Thread-Index: AQHRxTtpekWLIyI+r0KD4M2cpWWD4w== Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 06:18:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E063E0@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <574EFB070200004D000ED8B8@pta-imo.csir.co.za> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E073C5@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <575160B00200004D000EDE37@pta-imo.csir.co.za> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E124EB@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43E124EB@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.88] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 744cec20-2f18-443e-a30d-08d393528c86 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB4PR07MB346; 5:3oUn0FxUNZ41k5SmWwq6OM9MIN+jOQo9mtZfoy5nsY53vJQQ3iq275fDsIA1y/uqDqfBnHQTBPn/auU99Sii3wNhoO1P7n7M1HTEX1k5WCriTyjgUfoRxInf5uXDcFZMVCo6siBLD0rwRphNTGK26g==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB4PR07MB346; H:DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Jun 2016 06:18:34.2356 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB346 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbFdVNcmIC7cYNcaLYv3ExtZLFbf/MDm wOSxYfc0Ro8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGV0bPzGUvBQqWJJr34D427pLkZODgkBE4mP P8+zQthiEhfurWfrYuTiEBI4wijxYPdKVgjnJKNEw/UWJpAqFoFeZom7zYUQiauMEvOWP2CB cI4xSjR+fsUIUsUmYCOx8tB3MFtEwFCi/ehaFhCbWSBeonv6fzBbWMBI4mwDTI2xRPeO1+wQ tp7EqZ5zLBDbVCW2t58Gq+EViJJ4e287I8SyrUwS7xa+BktwCvhJPFh+Duw8RqAnvp9awwSx TFzi1pP5TBDPCUgs2XOeGcIWlXj5+B8rRH2yxKebvdAAUJB4N/c0G4TtK3F95SdmkGUSAqtY JGb8hrhCQsBV4u/C7VBDMyVWfO4GsjmAbCuJeWdiIerXMkq8PPWQBaJGRuLby51Qg36wSkxp fwG2TUggVWL52lbGCYzas5AcC2HrSCzY/YkNwtaWWLbwNfMscAgISpyc+YRlASPLKkbR4tTi 4tx0I2O91KLM5OLi/Dy9vNSSTYzAxHFwy2/dHYyrXzseYhTgYFTi4U24HRsuxJpYVlyZe4hR goNZSYT3lm9cuBBvSmJlVWpRfnxRaU5q8SFGaQ4WJXFe/5eK4UIC6YklqdmpqQWpRTBZJg5O qQZGTq0iO71Z57Uc6jxsru/ZN/nU6sN5m+aYnfL3WfHy32LLK5H3yo+bSQopmS7Ju/P4V5CH 5B2LMMaNS959/3+d4adIetnTW4uOSMXIesvv+PZO6+ETc7e8Vwv3rdTNqbrgLHWkZd6xbe5p cQkztkheeXcxueSG1donch1TuB6Ubu3s8Pjs3nugQomlOCPRUIu5qDgRAFkTwGwYAwAA Archived-At: Cc: Ingemar Johansson S , "rmcat@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 06:18:41 -0000 Hi Ralf One (two) additional item(s) that I forgot to mention.=20 1)=20 There is in SCReAM a feature that tries to sense the presence of competing = traffic (for instance TCP based file transfers), this feature decreases the= sensitivity to congestion. Even though it does its job reasonably well and= makes it possible to get some decent SCReAM throughput even in the presenc= e of TCP in tail drop links, I don't like it at all as it is a potential fo= otgun and can easly cause self-inflicted congestion (large RTTs) in the mor= e tricky wireless scenarios like the ones you are looking at. =20 So, .. assuming that you have very limited throughput in your test scenario= s and that you probably want to avoid large file transfers that compete wit= h the realtime video anyway, it is recommended that you change the line bel= ow in ScreamTx.cpp static const gboolean kEnableSbd =3D TRUE; to=20 static const gboolean kEnableSbd =3D FALSE; 2) And.. If you get started with your experiments and face problems with stabi= lity (not too unlikely), it can be good to use the printLog() in ScreamTx.c= pp, if you email me the log then I can do some initial debugging based on t= his information, just prepend each line in the log with a timestamp to make= it easier to follow. /Ingemar > -----Original Message----- > From: Ingemar Johansson S [mailto:ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com] > Sent: den 8 juni 2016 15:43 > To: rglobisch@csir.co.za; rmcat@ietf.org > Cc: Ingemar Johansson S > Subject: Re: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward >=20 > Hi Ralf >=20 > Thanks, It will be interesting to see what results you get with EDGE/3G/H= +. > Unfortunately I don't have any real test results with wireless access ava= ilable. > I have done simulations with LTE and HSDPA+EUL. LTE should work fine and > HSPA should be doable too. > It can be a challenge to get video working over EDGE but it may work. Ple= ase > let me know your findings. >=20 > Regards > /Ingemar >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ralf Globisch [mailto:rglobisch@csir.co.za] > > Sent: den 3 juni 2016 10:49 > > To: Ingemar Johansson S ; > > rmcat@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: [rmcat] SCReAM status and way forward > > > > Hi Ingemar, > > > > Responses inline. > > > > > [IJ] Great, that can play a role, SCReAM can compensate for minor > > > errors but if they become too bit and systematic then the > > > rate/congestion control becomes confused. > > > > Ok, cool, will keep this in mind when running my next round of tests. > > > > > [IJ] The OpenWebRTC implementation seemed to set the RTCP BW > > > proportional to the RTP media rate, I suspect that it was those 5%. > > > The problem is that this was way too low in the beginning and caused > > > choppy video in the beginning, after a while the feedback interval > > > became unnecessary. As I understood things RFC4585 is implemented > > > but not 100% sure. The best is to steer the RTCP feedback according > > > to the outlined function on page 14 in > > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-rmcat-1.pdf . > > > trr-int should be a set to sufficiently high value to avoid that > > > full compound > > RTCP is transmitted too often, 500ms should be sufficient in your case. > > > > Ok. > > > > > [IJ] Sure, I'll be interested to do a testrun if I manage to build i= t. > > > > Ok, I'll see if I can put a release together for testing. I'm just a > > bit swamped with work at the moment, so it might take me a while to get > to it. > > > > On the way forward, I will take your feedback into account, and get in > > touch if I have any questions regarding the behaviour/tweaking of > > SCReAM. We're intending to look at how it performs especially over > > EDGE/3G/H+ which are prevalent in developing contexts. > > > > Regards, > > Ralf > > > > > > > > -- > > This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, > > e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) > standard. > > The full disclaimer details can be found at > > http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. >=20 From nobody Tue Jun 14 20:14:58 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890CD12B058 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:14:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id quQkbjpuQ0Si for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D0AE12D59B for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:14:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=30015; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1465960494; x=1467170094; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=XzVGXu26Cq3pYvuYCLvvHONwvZaFe44uZ0nvQ+EhqVQ=; b=aqXQHUDviu//dSB/2I+bD/2oWWL1zjeajhJoxMbk4Gf2ZaBBi5UgIQeR 8LEyBFaTKCGUbcU0tv4UYsSdKnhRqYYs2/7sltfNrqtSur30Iu2cjirzQ 7igj0MYZDPFXTdxp+MUph7cbFwcNLjBY7AGYXurE3FmMEQwH5m48TW0xY 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BEBQAYx2BX/5ldJa1dgnBOVn0GhgqlR?= =?us-ascii?q?gEEkVcehXkCHIEYOxEBAQEBAQEBZSeESwEBAQQjJjAOAgIBBgIRBAEBChcHAwI?= =?us-ascii?q?CAg0MFxQJCAIEAQ0FiDAOjzmdHZEFAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHAWGI?= =?us-ascii?q?oRNhBIKBwEiAg8IFwiCQ4JaBYgag1mHUYUlAYYEiCSBaYRSgy2FOo9zATQgggQ?= =?us-ascii?q?DHIFMbgGIQw8XH38BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,474,1459814400"; d="scan'208,217";a="285764751" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Jun 2016 03:14:53 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-012.cisco.com (xch-aln-012.cisco.com [173.36.7.22]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5F3Er17000324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Jun 2016 03:14:53 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-016.cisco.com (173.37.102.26) by XCH-ALN-012.cisco.com (173.36.7.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:14:51 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-016.cisco.com ([173.37.102.26]) by XCH-RCD-016.cisco.com ([173.37.102.26]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:14:51 -0500 From: "Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu)" To: "Sergio Mena de la Cruz (semena)" , Ingemar Johansson S , "stefan@webrtc.org" , "randell-ietf@jesup.org" Thread-Topic: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling Thread-Index: AQHRkMsbLMn6IZr2wkqpYglcTlSjZZ/I1e8AgCFsk9E= Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 03:14:51 +0000 Message-ID: <1465960491785.73003@cisco.com> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC0906@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC10BF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC1402@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se>, <574474AC.7070608@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <574474AC.7070608@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.70.231.238] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_146596049178573003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "rmcat@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." 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[217.240.124.23]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id db6sm41574367wjb.2.2016.06.15.21.53.29 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:53:30 -0700 (PDT) To: rmcat@ietf.org From: Martin Stiemerling Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 06:53:28 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: "rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org" List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 04:53:34 -0000 Dear all, There has been some discussions offline if it would be benefical to have an intermim meeting just before the IETF-96 meeting in Berlin, i.e., on Sunday July 17. Please let the chairs know until June 22 if you would be attend such interim meeting. Thanks, Martin From nobody Thu Jun 16 22:16:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E59712B00C for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:16:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gNxmq603QFqE for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9E7212B00D for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB4PR07MB345; H:DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01D1C868.280D9DB0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jun 2016 05:16:27.1827 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB345 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SfyzUcRjH+9z3+z3fu7n6OidPx1ZO1qIkq2ZLVBuzHTtrNuWfXHzjFkf3 9SP6R5vkx24o5Ef0Y6xwRUU0EUcWZsOxUbH8GjJGp0mqdXefs/Xf63ne7+f5PM+zD02Iuykp rVInsRq1Mk7GF5JlF1vCjuruRIV7/S5x98n+k0n61E+s8c/ygqqrt3hBGwYjP5QXIfSNZuNU KazmmF+kMLa4Zp1MbJbfyK0rIjJQVVAuEtDAnIDMLD0f814YmmowsZAWMz0IVotbeDjoQ7A8 PI7MAcloCfi2uYWwMoZgfHyEwkEvgvbBt4S5GZ/xhVr9JjKzhImG15vvLI/YM3JYy7hL4Hww 6LJyrB5vWOussTDJuEHbwiTPzCImAnR5Ixa/2NSz0Ki15AXMGWjrbbb0RKbBN/t1ljzBOMKn uYc8vJAEpocHrMs5wNLsXwr7o+D7hJbC+QOwWrnjCYH7WQM2mEtI6G6SYg4AY8dHq0cF+QWd 1lp3yO4pt9wImFYEX/t/ElhwhlvTVQQWRiiYelJv3YCFp89vI3wJKUyO5qACdLj8v8HLTTUE o0VgHGskyi0XsIO+sjkSmzxgfmLeyvuhZeUBgfk0lP7q4mN2gaK8aRvMJ2H5wzp6hOg65MCx 3JX4GG9vT1ajiuK4BLWnmk16hUzfqatp26sVLS2c0yOGRjJbkdIlKlxMKVO4tHg9OmjqM9NY P4SkpDpBzcokoguZJlkUrUxLZzUJlzXJcSynR040KXMUKZZcwsVMjDKJvcayiaxmR+XRAmkG kuRXGH1kp6aIQWrPmHzVUJi4UqKI3LU7Jp3+XDs3LGpo777ZEagffSweDaRCCzjnjbAAUrS4 4r+iaPFLFJSo3zN+cuqQ4WryzPWXxW4hMxG2ikrd5JdLqefnbQ3ZR+wmC/0Vwa4v9s22tafe e/OMXlRu/+jtcs0pdQqwr/AgZSQXqzzuTmg45T+JeYaiVgMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 05:16:34 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01D1C868.280D9DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Martin + others I will arrive in Berlin on Sunday afternoon so I cannot attend an interim meeting Regards Ingemar > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Stiemerling [mailto:mls.ietf@gmail.com] > Sent: den 16 juni 2016 06:53 > To: rmcat@ietf.org > Subject: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96 > > Dear all, > > There has been some discussions offline if it would be benefical to have an > intermim meeting just before the IETF-96 meeting in Berlin, i.e., on Sunday > July 17. > > Please let the chairs know until June 22 if you would be attend such interim > meeting. > > Thanks, > > Martin > ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01D1C868.280D9DB0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" 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[173.37.102.27]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5HGuRwg019687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:56:27 GMT Received: from xch-aln-017.cisco.com (173.36.7.27) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:56:26 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-017.cisco.com ([173.36.7.27]) by XCH-ALN-017.cisco.com ([173.36.7.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:56:26 -0500 From: "Michael Ramalho (mramalho)" To: "rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "rmcat@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96 Thread-Index: AQHRx4sNkjdsdlc6SU2fX70q8LrYxJ/t4vQA Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:56:26 +0000 Message-ID: <60cd16c84d9c4c47bd6d2b41ea319ccd@XCH-ALN-017.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:25:22 -0000 I will only be attending IETF-96 remotely, due to travel constraints. Henc= e won't be able to attend the interim in person if there is one. =0A= =0A= Thanks,=0A= Xiaoqing=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: rmcat on behalf of Michael Ramalho (mramalho= )=0A= Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 12:56 AM=0A= To: rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org; rmcat@ietf.org=0A= Subject: Re: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96= =0A= =0A= Martin/Others,=0A= =0A= I will be arriving that morning - thus only able to attend if it is an afte= rnoon meeting.=0A= =0A= Michael=0A= =0A= -----Original Message-----=0A= From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Stiemerling= =0A= Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:53 AM=0A= To: rmcat@ietf.org=0A= Subject: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96=0A= =0A= Dear all,=0A= =0A= There has been some discussions offline if it would be benefical to have an= intermim meeting just before the IETF-96 meeting in Berlin, i.e., on Sunda= y July 17.=0A= =0A= Please let the chairs know until June 22 if you would be attend such interi= m meeting.=0A= =0A= Thanks,=0A= =0A= Martin=0A= =0A= From nobody Mon Jun 20 00:08:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0149E12D99C for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:08:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0KxDGwrSAVOw for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com (mail-lf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF11812D99A for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id l188so31544474lfe.2 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:08:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HaucJmrkKzpiIKGx/CL0TWbGd58leWPHqz2dH050Ltc=; b=uV9i96A6GEFRd+F5idvdNOGW2mMrTmlG15aQ9UxBjjVRAOYWLU7QJ8feNTp+kFSe9N p0GoAfLqn+Qhto2J490gHx5lLP7wL5BzIgY3bnAycgk3CFSgkqZhk6TtRd6xSsFrQrLY o/8VpzeRDG7vRlBqpYyWsB9vDogVs2+bm78KG22jhjLwDzCx+HuPUu2trWyo+azigP1E DRO5l1baGaT37cQ04393XSTqnjiy8Q24l6lkfWwcmwOdz6zW7TTvXWTSalTYzZYhu9mY /0EKRkFpNsd9GlEbsQnnGNzP1FkAv+M/mz8Wg9thjSa4WnN/yb22rBGfT+h6bwhJmojP zXtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HaucJmrkKzpiIKGx/CL0TWbGd58leWPHqz2dH050Ltc=; b=QQXxiAinoQT3GzU+PivD00ge+nP9pf4nKNngE2vBoHY3TxW9VGqka2LREIGjX8nWP1 c661Me25Io3kfnuYrZSnkZ+PIhHgyD+4hnb/3kf7dz2h4xRReEvG6S0JVwaQQC1w8rJa +dtxOHKMMvjPgZw6M2mv6omqD595pcFdH6E09c6R2DrLa/1CqgTdRtFpDxj/wWaCCUXx ckpmGV9PDfEcSI+MJugmweNXYeRtRXLYHsRkR1mMbYE9urpEyef0qahWhvvsxjOs6KDD IqFLbwAnTORZOnZqAImCgyXFYwoQe1kb0JEbibg9TsaY4BM2RHNsbUzbd9ghRUi9FrxL 6K4g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKf0zx03HXZi5VuY53TOt7NXs7urRWjGqly3da2Uc4RJc8h/gnF7ArCgi8dv3lIh4Ee9qTyWGKWB+ppHQ== X-Received: by 10.46.5.137 with SMTP id 131mr3161870ljf.8.1466406517184; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:08:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.83.5 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:08:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1466220318694.38800@cisco.com> References: <60cd16c84d9c4c47bd6d2b41ea319ccd@XCH-ALN-017.cisco.com> <1466220318694.38800@cisco.com> From: Varun Singh Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:08:17 +0300 Message-ID: To: "Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "rmcat@ietf.org" , "rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 07:08:41 -0000 I'll be there earlier, and I can share FEC + congestion control results with the community. On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 6:25 AM, Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu) wrote: > I will only be attending IETF-96 remotely, due to travel constraints. Hence won't be able to attend the interim in person if there is one. > > Thanks, > Xiaoqing > > ________________________________________ > From: rmcat on behalf of Michael Ramalho (mramalho) > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 12:56 AM > To: rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org; rmcat@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96 > > Martin/Others, > > I will be arriving that morning - thus only able to attend if it is an afternoon meeting. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Stiemerling > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:53 AM > To: rmcat@ietf.org > Subject: [rmcat] Interst to have an rmcat interim Sunday before IETF-96 > > Dear all, > > There has been some discussions offline if it would be benefical to have an intermim meeting just before the IETF-96 meeting in Berlin, i.e., on Sunday July 17. > > Please let the chairs know until June 22 if you would be attend such interim meeting. > > Thanks, > > Martin > > -- http://www.callstats.io From nobody Mon Jun 20 01:37:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D014712D7C0 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 01:37:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LGbPeXe6CnM6 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 01:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D33B12B036 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 01:37:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=34396; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1466411821; x=1467621421; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=MC8YODAQjnC3QxFfZAi7Y8xizVqz0pILMg7dsEQzjnk=; b=auO9lWgy/u6dnv228mGnoO8rAaEqTnONRvbCXkFEIVp1+nGtspQYmSG5 5o89EoVqsGnV0/splGmJO67PP6fz52aet7UYy5MLIgXkM1A2V88URw5up eSCcSbr/VZJlrmY06fRunBI9w0iswS+eyG45zasTHXK/mu0D3h7lrvPwB 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,497,1459814400"; d="scan'208,217";a="638106999" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Jun 2016 08:36:59 +0000 Received: from [10.0.2.15] ([10.228.220.90]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5K8aw2j026830; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 08:36:58 GMT To: "Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu)" , Ingemar Johansson S , "stefan@webrtc.org" , "randell-ietf@jesup.org" References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC0906@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC10BF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC1402@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <574474AC.7070608@cisco.com> <1465960491785.73003@cisco.com> From: Sergio Mena Message-ID: <5767AB2A.3000403@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:36:58 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1465960491785.73003@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000808010104000306020004" Archived-At: Cc: "rmcat@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 08:37:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000808010104000306020004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, We just modified the default values for the simple content sharing codec in https://github.com/cisco/syncodecs The new default values reflect Xiaoqing's proposal to the list. Thanks, Sergio On 15/06/16 05:14, Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu) wrote: > > Hi, > > > I would like to propose one default parameter change for the simple > content sharing codec. > > > Currently the size of a large frame follows a uniform distribution > between 40 and 500KB. As I understand this was based on the > suggestions from this thread. > > > It might make sense to tune down the maximum frame size from 500KB to > something like, say 200KB. My suggestion is based on the following > observations of sample intra-coded frame sizes from the trace files of > the two animation-type content shared via Syncodec: > > > * In Elephant Dreams, @1080p and target rate of 1.5Mbps, the first I > frame is 22195 bytes (encoded with avg. QP=25 and resulting in frame > PSNR=46.05 dB); > > * In ​Big Buck Bunny @1080p and target rate of 1.5Mbps, the first I > frame is 78754 bytes (encoded with avg. QP=31.13 and resulting > in frame PSNR=37.89dB). > > > Note also that for sending a large burst frame of 200KB over a 1Mbps > link (the typical bottleneck BW we've been testing so far for RMCAT), > it will take at least 1.6 second to get through, and probably more (if > the sender spaces out transmission of that frame to avoid > congestion-induced losses over a not-so-deep queue). > > > Given all the above considerations, capping the burst frame size at > 200KB seems less of an exaggeration than 500KB. ​​ > > > Further thoughts and comments are welcome. > > > Thanks, > > Xiaoqing > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* rmcat on behalf of Sergio Mena de la > Cruz (semena) > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2016 11:35 PM > *To:* Ingemar Johansson S; stefan@webrtc.org; randell-ietf@jesup.org > *Cc:* rmcat@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling > > All, > > We would like to announce to the list that we have implemented a new > synthetic codec C++ class (SimpleContentSharingCodec), which follows > the guidelines that Stefan and Ingemar described in this email thread. > > You can find it in the latest version of our repo: > https://github.com/cisco/syncodecs > > Let me know if you have questions on how to use it. > > Regards, > > Sergio > > > On 07/04/16 14:43, Ingemar Johansson S wrote: >> >> Did a quick shot where I created a frame size trace according to the >> guidelines below , the probability of a large frame is 0.05. >> >> The bottleneck BW is limited to 500kbps, RTT=100ms >> >> Please see attached png. >> >> I did not optimize SCReAM for this, there is a possibility that one >> need to turn off the feature that clears the transmit queue if it >> becomes too large, this feature can then be defined as optional on a >> SCReAM-stream level. >> >> Another observation is that CWND is estimated too high between ~12 >> and 40s. So there is probably room for improvement but at least it >> does not break down. >> >> I also attached the frame size trace, realize that the 1^st frame >> should probably be large. >> >> /Ingemar >> >> *From:*Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org] >> *Sent:* den 7 april 2016 12:59 >> *To:* Ingemar Johansson S; randell-ietf@jesup.org >> *Cc:* rmcat@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: Live slide show modeling >> >> Right. My experience is that during the periods of static content, >> the congestion controller may run into problems due to being rate >> limited and network jitter. Once it's time to transmit a huge frame >> the rate/cwnd is very low and it takes several seconds to send the >> frame even though the connection is typically good. >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:54 AM Ingemar Johansson S >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> Ok, thanks, I assume that rate adaptation is not really >> applicable here ?. Instead it is more a task to verify that the >> congestion control does not transmit more than what fits in the >> bottleneck, to avoid excess packet drops or delay ? >> >> /Ingemar >> >> *From:*Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org] >> *Sent:* den 7 april 2016 10:27 >> *To:* Ingemar Johansson S; Randell Jesup (randell-ietf@jesup.org >> ) >> *Cc:* rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) >> *Subject:* Re: Live slide show modeling >> >> I'd model it as a low framerate (~5 fps) stream, where with some >> probability (maybe between 0.005 and 0.05) a frame is large due >> to a slide change (say 50-400 packets). In between slide changes >> the frames can be compressed to a single packet. >> >> /Stefan >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM Ingemar Johansson S >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> Do you have a reasonably rough idea of how to model the >> transmission of a live slide show. >> >> I can, from the discussion on the chat, imagine something like >> >> Frame period : 1s, or 5s, something else ? >> >> Frame size : ? a 1920x1080 jpg compressed image is something >> like 500+ kB ? >> >> /Ingemar >> >> ================================== >> >> Ingemar Johansson M.Sc. >> >> Master Researcher >> >> Ericsson AB >> >> Wireless Access Networks >> >> Labratoriegränd 11 >> >> 971 28, Luleå, Sweden >> >> Phone +46-1071 43042 >> >> SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 >> >> ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com >> >> >> www.ericsson.com >> >> This report, by it´s very length, >> >> defends itself against the risk of being read >> >> Winston Churchill >> >> ================================== >> > --------------000808010104000306020004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello,

We just modified the default values for the simple content sharing codec in

https://github.com/cisco/syncodecs

The new default values reflect Xiaoqing's proposal to the list.

Thanks,

Sergio


On 15/06/16 05:14, Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu) wrote:

Hi, 


I would like to propose one default parameter change for the simple content sharing codec. 


Currently the size of a large frame follows a uniform distribution between 40 and 500KB. As I understand this was based on the suggestions from this thread. 


It might make sense to tune down the maximum frame size from 500KB to something like, say 200KB. My suggestion is based on the following observations of sample intra-coded frame sizes from the trace files of the two animation-type content shared via Syncodec: 


* In Elephant Dreams, @1080p and target rate of 1.5Mbps, the first I frame is 22195 bytes (encoded with avg. QP=25 and resulting in frame PSNR=46.05 dB); 

* In ​Big Buck Bunny @1080p and target rate of 1.5Mbps, the first I frame is 78754 bytes (encoded with avg. QP=31.13 and resulting in frame PSNR=37.89dB). 


Note also that for sending a large burst frame of 200KB over a 1Mbps link (the typical bottleneck BW we've been testing so far for RMCAT), it will take at least 1.6 second to get through, and probably more (if the sender spaces out transmission of that frame to avoid congestion-induced losses over a not-so-deep queue).


Given all the above considerations, capping the burst frame size at 200KB seems less of an exaggeration than 500KB. ​​


Further thoughts and comments are welcome.


Thanks,

Xiaoqing



From: rmcat <rmcat-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Sergio Mena de la Cruz (semena)
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 11:35 PM
To: Ingemar Johansson S; stefan@webrtc.org; randell-ietf@jesup.org
Cc: rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling
 

All,

We would like to announce to the list that we have implemented a new synthetic codec C++ class (SimpleContentSharingCodec), which follows the guidelines that Stefan and Ingemar described in this email thread.

You can find it in the latest version of our repo: https://github.com/cisco/syncodecs

Let me know if you have questions on how to use it.

Regards,

Sergio


On 07/04/16 14:43, Ingemar Johansson S wrote:

Did a quick shot where I created a frame size trace according to the guidelines below , the probability of a large frame is 0.05.

 

The bottleneck BW is limited to 500kbps, RTT=100ms

 

Please see attached png.

I did not optimize SCReAM for this, there is a possibility that one need to turn off the feature that clears the transmit queue if it becomes too large, this feature can then be defined as optional on a SCReAM-stream level.

Another observation is that CWND is estimated too high between ~12 and 40s. So there is probably room for improvement but at least it does not break down.

 

I also attached the frame size trace, realize that the 1st frame should probably be large.

 

/Ingemar

 

 

From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org]
Sent: den 7 april 2016 12:59
To: Ingemar Johansson S; randell-ietf@jesup.org
Cc: rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling

 

Right. My experience is that during the periods of static content, the congestion controller may run into problems due to being rate limited and network jitter. Once it's time to transmit a huge frame the rate/cwnd is very low and it takes several seconds to send the frame even though the connection is typically good.

 

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:54 AM Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi

 

Ok, thanks, I assume that rate adaptation is not really applicable here ?. Instead it is more a task to verify that the congestion control does not transmit more than what fits in the bottleneck, to avoid excess packet drops or delay ?

 

/Ingemar

 

From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org]
Sent: den 7 april 2016 10:27
To: Ingemar Johansson S; Randell Jesup (randell-ietf@jesup.org)
Cc: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org)
Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling

 

I'd model it as a low framerate (~5 fps) stream, where with some probability (maybe between 0.005 and 0.05) a frame is large due to a slide change (say 50-400 packets). In between slide changes the frames can be compressed to a single packet.

 

/Stefan

 

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi

Do you have a reasonably rough idea of how to model the transmission of a live slide show.

I can, from the discussion on the chat, imagine something like

 

Frame period : 1s, or 5s, something else ?

Frame size : ? a 1920x1080 jpg compressed image is something like 500+ kB ?

 

/Ingemar

==================================

Ingemar Johansson  M.Sc.

Master Researcher

 

Ericsson AB

Wireless Access Networks

Labratoriegränd 11

971 28, Luleå, Sweden

Phone +46-1071 43042

SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com

www.ericsson.com

 

           This report, by it´s very length,

 defends itself against the risk of being read

                       Winston Churchill

==================================

 



--------------000808010104000306020004-- From nobody Fri Jun 24 09:05:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588B912DCDC; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:00:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160624160052.10933.98886.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:00:52 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net Subject: [rmcat] rmcat - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 96 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." 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Thanks, Anna and Martin From nobody Sun Jun 26 23:18:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C9512B01D; Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:18:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160627061843.6085.11644.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:18:43 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org Subject: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 06:18:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques of the IETF. Title : Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia Authors : Ingemar Johansson Zaheduzzaman Sarker Filename : draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2016-06-26 Abstract: This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a LTE (Long Term Evolution) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB4PR07MB299; H:DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; CAT:NONE; LANG:en; CAT:NONE; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01D1D04E.9C496FE0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2016 06:33:44.0615 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB299 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SfUhTURjGOffeXa/D0W1qvlhQjjTQtGkZgiIKJkKmlqBhUU69qDjn2FVJ 6w/FzDAshcQ5+yRD5ufwAxeB5FLTRDRX0BTTqRNUSvu0/KLdHYP++73ned7znuflMKS0X+TJ ZKvyOY1KoZTRYqr+Yq+v/8iwOlk+1uEdcnvnJhXSYlmnI4iYxsY/RMwP83c6gUgRh2VwyuxC TnMiPFWc1bm+Rajnkq61aRuIErRxvhIxDLCnoGatoBI52/EATHzqoCuRmJGyAwhsrW0ULoYR vOybJYWCYqtI2FhqJ7HyHoH+2TqBiyEErdNjTsJlNBsGetMGEma4sXKwVAULHpLtQaAtXSEF jyt7Fib7mhzsxsZC+6hlj4Ngq7KCEnop1huMH1yEYwmbAkOTjyiBpWwEDOq1jlHObCSUTP+k BUb2DBtvWwmBSdYDphYfEzibG1jfjdKY3WF5YVeE/enwzVIlwqs4AtaeOGw5B3rriiMWsKVO UFdRKsLCGbinN5CYs0Fn2KEwX4aFh7UINxgRrNW/2hMOQcWXTREWdDSM1FcgnICDprZyVI18 df89VudYUhWCZ1NjlM6Rer+9Z5HCJj+wWWx7fBh6Pz8gMYeCdrOfxuwF9+9YnTAHw+rgV/QE Mc3Ined4Pjcz6GQAp8lO5/k8VYCKy+9E9s/U373lb0Qtq5EmxDJI5iJJTVAnS0WKQr4o14SO 2u+ZN7RMIE9KlafiZG6S7dd2WZKhKCrmNHlXNQVKjjehgwwl85DEL3slS9lMRT6Xw3FqTvNP JRhnzxKUaOoKHal9I7YFlhtno7SxiWVPXeOL+uevm2fUnWb58u5obJ27KWdyX0NqZuvcUpmh UN7VfWyh+Ir5efMvZ4PfZGTCrWgznzcePbNYHDD4O37seNx0Z1Ja48qFAdvpGqtVWdMQ9uKS z2z5eIfPdlRasq36bhxXMP+x3Rgeor4xKKP4LEWgL6nhFX8BP/DCkVQDAAA= Archived-At: Cc: Ingemar Johansson S , Zaheduzzaman Sarker , "rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [rmcat] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 06:33:50 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01D1D04E.9C496FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi A new version of the SCReAM draft is submitted, the main update is that the congestion control and rate control is simplified somewhat. The C++ code (https://github.com/EricssonResearch/scream ) is also updated to match the draft. In addition the dependencies on Glib typedefs is removed and CMake files are added, thanks to Ralf Globish for the help with this. I definitely believe now that this draft is ready for WGLC. /Ingemar -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] Sent: den 27 juni 2016 08:19 To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker ; Zaheduzzaman Sarker ; Ingemar Johansson S Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05.txt A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05.txt has been successfully submitted by Ingemar Johansson and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc Revision: 05 Title: Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia Document date: 2016-06-27 Group: rmcat Pages: 35 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-05 Abstract: This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a LTE (Long Term Evolution) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:13:37 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_03DC_01D1D168.C3E69E90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_03DD_01D1D168.C3E69E90" ------=_NextPart_001_03DD_01D1D168.C3E69E90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi =20 The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewhat It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue = should change as well or ? Or is the intention that one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size=20 With a ref bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps and 300ms queue size that would = then mean=20 0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ? =20 /Ingemar =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ingemar Johansson M.Sc.=20 Master Researcher =20 Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegr=E4nd 11 971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 = ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com =20 Real knowledge is to know the=20 extent of one's ignorance Confucius =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------=_NextPart_001_03DD_01D1D168.C3E69E90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi

 

The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 = confuses me somewhat

It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that = the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop = tail queue should change as well or ?

Or is the intention that one use = the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size =

With a ref = bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps and 300ms queue size that would then mean =

0.300*1e6 = =3D 300000bits ?

 

/Ingemar

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Ingemar Johansson  M.Sc.

Master Researcher

 

Ericsson AB

Wireless Access Networks

Labratoriegr=E4nd 11

971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden

Phone +46-1071 43042

SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com

www.ericsson.com

 

=A0=A0=A0 Real = knowledge is to know the

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0extent of = one's ignorance

=

= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Confucius

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

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SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0085_01D1D18C.4F8CCFF0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jun 2016 20:27:57.6397 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB338 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA2WSa0hTYRjHe3fO5nE5OM6pDyqVw4K01MRI0iI/RBGW9iEUJWzqQc252Tlq GRQmaTk1Uydzq7zgJcgklVIpiJw3zDAtL3l3TknxQkpmGWjbXoOgb7//8/yf97nwUoR4jO9E xSuSGVYhk0sFQlIb1ux++OMEG+pd3hDgVzvyTXAKna2q+sULQeHCgBhGHp/KsF4nrwjj2rJt kh6o0Y27OR946ahQhVTImgLaFx5t5VthdoC+yRcCFRJSYrodgW6lDWHRjUCTgQVJ5xFQOlLK 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:28:04 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01D1D18C.4F8CCFF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0086_01D1D18C.4F8CCFF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0086_01D1D18C.4F8CCFF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please see inline below. =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar = Johansson S Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13 To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) Subject: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and = bottleneck queue size =20 Hi =20 The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewhat It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue = should change as well or ? [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] No. Or is the intention that one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size=20 With a ref bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] yes and 300ms queue size that would then mean=20 0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ? =20 /Ingemar =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ingemar Johansson M.Sc.=20 Master Researcher =20 Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegr=E4nd 11 971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 = ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com =20 Real knowledge is to know the=20 extent of one's ignorance Confucius =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0086_01D1D18C.4F8CCFF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please see = inline below.

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: rmcat = [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson = S
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13
To: rmcat WG = (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: [rmcat] = Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Hi

 

The text in = section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me = somewhat

It mentions a bottleneck = queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the = queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue should change as well or = ?

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = No.

Or is the intention that = one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size =

With a ref bottleneck capacity of = 1Mbps

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = yes

and 300ms queue size = that would then mean

0.300*1e6 =3D = 300000bits ?

 

/Ingemar

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Ingemar Johansson  M.Sc.

Master Researcher

 

Ericsson AB

Wireless Access Networks

Labratoriegr=E4nd 11

971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden

Phone +46-1071 43042

SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com

www.ericsson.com

 

    Real knowledge is to know the =

     &nb= sp; extent of one's ignorance

=

          &nbs= p;      Confucius

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

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Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:48:43 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01D1D18F.19CB08C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001C_01D1D18F.19CB08C0" ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01D1D18F.19CB08C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, then I get it, thanks.=20 Stumbled on another question, though.=20 =20 When I run TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps = link gets almost fully saturated 100% of the time.=20 The settings I use are Linux TCP with Cubic 10 FTP clients=20 100kB-1000kB file size (uniform distribution) Idle time between reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed. Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 ? =20 =20 /Ingemar =20 From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker=20 Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28 To: Ingemar Johansson S ; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 Please see inline below. =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar = Johansson S Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13 To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org ) > Subject: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and = bottleneck queue size =20 Hi =20 The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewhat It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue = should change as well or ? [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] No. Or is the intention that one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size=20 With a ref bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] yes and 300ms queue size that would then mean=20 0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ? =20 /Ingemar =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ingemar Johansson M.Sc.=20 Master Researcher =20 Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegr=E4nd 11 971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 = ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com =20 Real knowledge is to know the=20 extent of one's ignorance Confucius =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01D1D18F.19CB08C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK, then I get it, = thanks.

Stumbled on another question, = though.

 

When I run TC 5.7 (many small TCP = flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes quite high. If I run = completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps link gets almost fully saturated = 100% of the time.

The settings I use = are

Linux TCP with = Cubic

10 FTP clients =

=A0=A0100kB-1000kB file size = (uniform distribution)

=A0 Idle time between = reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed.

Have I misunderstood the = description for TC5.7 ?

 

 

/Ingemar

 

From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker =
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28
To: Ingemar Johansson = S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) = <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on = draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Please see inline below.

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org]= On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 28 juni = 2016 18:13
To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: = [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Hi

 

The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 = confuses me somewhat

It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that = the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop = tail queue should change as well or ?

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = No.

Or is the intention that one use = the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size =

With a ref = bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = yes

and 300ms queue size that would then mean =

0.300*1e6 = =3D 300000bits ?

 

/Ingemar

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

Ingemar = Johansson  M.Sc.

Master = Researcher

 

Ericsson = AB

Wireless = Access Networks

Labratoriegr=E4= nd 11

971 28, = Lule=E5, Sweden

Phone +46-1071 = 43042

SMS/MMS +46-73 = 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com

www.ericsson.com

 

  &nb= sp; Real knowledge is to = know the

       extent of = one's ignorance

  &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Confucius

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

 

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([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Jun 2016 21:01:15 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (xch-aln-016.cisco.com [173.36.7.26]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5SL1FBh012955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:01:15 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-016.cisco.com (173.37.102.26) by XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (173.36.7.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:01:14 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-016.cisco.com ([173.37.102.26]) by XCH-RCD-016.cisco.com ([173.37.102.26]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:01:14 -0500 From: "Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu)" To: Ingemar Johansson S , "Zaheduzzaman Sarker" , "rmcat@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size Thread-Index: AQHR0XuZ5Qo9c2c3f0SmT0l5qG0yO5//rYoA//+st70= Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:01:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1467147674168.55445@cisco.com> References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.152.244.146] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_146714767416855445ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:01:41 -0000 --_000_146714767416855445ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ingemar, I encountered the same problem when running that test case. Then I noticed = a discrepancy between the specification in the eval-test draft and the eval= -criteria draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria= -05#section-6.1?) In Section 6.1, the model for short TCP specifies 30 concurrent connections= with 30-50KB each in data size. So, for the moment, I am taking the "min" of both descriptions. I am testi= ng TC5.7 with 10 short TCP flows, 2 of them start in the ON state while res= t of the 8 flows start in an OFF states (according to eval-test). Each dow= nload attempt picks a data size ranging between 30-50KB (according to eval-= criteria). Note that each short TCP connection incurs multiple downloads as= it cycles through ON/OFF states for the entire duration of the simulation. As co-author of the eval-test draft, I would like to propose this revised t= est set up for TC5.7, and corresponding text changes in the eval-criteria d= raft. Would of course need input from other co-authors of the two drafts. = Alternative suggestions are welcome too. Thanks, Xiaoqing ________________________________ From: rmcat on behalf of Ingemar Johansson S Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:47 PM To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker; rmcat@ietf.org Subject: Re: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottlene= ck queue size OK, then I get it, thanks. Stumbled on another question, though. When I run TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure be= comes quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps link get= s almost fully saturated 100% of the time. The settings I use are Linux TCP with Cubic 10 FTP clients 100kB-1000kB file size (uniform distribution) Idle time between reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed. Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 ? /Ingemar From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28 To: Ingemar Johansson S ; rmcat WG (rmcat= @ietf.org) Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottlene= ck queue size Please see inline below. BR Zahed From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson = S Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13 To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) > Subject: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck q= ueue size Hi The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewh= at It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity chang= es this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue should chan= ge as well or ? [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] No. Or is the intention that one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compu= te a queue size With a ref bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] yes and 300ms queue size that would then mean 0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ? /Ingemar =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ingemar Johansson M.Sc. Master Researcher Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegr=E4nd 11 971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance Confucius =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --_000_146714767416855445ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ingemar, 


I encountered the same problem when running that test case. Then I notic= ed a discrepancy between the specification in the eval-test draft and the e= val-criteria draft (https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-05#section-6.1​)


In Section 6.1, the model for short TCP= specifies 30 concurrent connections with 30-50KB each in data size.  =


So, for the moment, I am taking the "min" of both descrip= tions.  I am testing TC5.7 with 10 short TCP flows= , 2 of them start in the ON state while rest of the 8 flows start in an OFF states (ac= cording to eval-test).  Each d= ownload attempt picks a d= ata size ranging between 30-50KB (according to eval-criteria). Note that each short TCP connec= tion incurs multiple downloads as it cycles through ON/OFF states for the e= ntire duration of the simulation. 


As co-author of the eval-test draft, I would like to propose this revise= d test set up for TC5.7, and corresponding text changes in the eval-cr= iteria draft.  Would of course need input from other co-auth= ors of the two drafts. Alternative suggestions are welcome too. 


Thanks,

Xiaoqing




From: rmcat <rmcat-bounc= es@ietf.org> on behalf of Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@er= icsson.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:47 PM
To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker; rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and b= ottleneck queue size
 

OK, then I get it, t= hanks.

Stumbled on another = question, though.

 

When I run TC 5.7 (m= any small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes quite high. If= I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps link gets almost fully satur= ated 100% of the time.

The settings I use a= re

Linux TCP with Cubic=

10 FTP clients

  100kB-10= 00kB file size (uniform distribution)

  Idle time bet= ween reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed.

Have I misunderstood= the description for TC5.7 ?

 

 

/Ingemar

 

From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28
To: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>; rm= cat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and b= ottleneck queue size

 

Please see inline below.=

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13
To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) = <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottl= eneck queue size

 

Hi

 

The text in section 4.2 in draf= t-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewhat

It mentions a bottleneck queue = size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the queue si= ze in bytes of a drop tail queue should change as well or ?

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] No.=

Or is the intention that one us= e the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size

With a ref bottleneck capacity = of 1Mbps

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] yes=

and 300ms queue size that would= then mean

0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ?

 

/Ingemar

 

=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Ingemar= Johansson  M.Sc.

Master = Researcher

 <= /span>

Ericsso= n AB

Wireles= s Access Networks

Labrato= riegr=E4nd 11

971 28,= Lule=E5, Sweden

Phone &= #43;46-1071 43042

SMS/MMS= +46-73 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@eric= sson.com

www.ericsson.com <= /span>

 &= nbsp;  Real knowledge is to know t= he

       extent = of one's ignorance

 &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Confucius

=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:15:16 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01D1D19B.48A7AF20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00CD_01D1D19B.48A7AF20" ------=_NextPart_001_00CD_01D1D19B.48A7AF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 Not sure I understand the confusion. =20 If there is no other traffic on the path except the TCP traffic the path capacity is supposed to filled up by the TCP traffic. =20 By the way, the short flows are supposed to me modeled according to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-04#section-6.1= =20 May be we should remove the test specific information section for the eval-test draft. =20 =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: Ingemar Johansson S=20 Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:48 To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker ; = rmcat@ietf.org Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 OK, then I get it, thanks.=20 Stumbled on another question, though.=20 =20 When I run TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps = link gets almost fully saturated 100% of the time.=20 The settings I use are Linux TCP with Cubic 10 FTP clients=20 100kB-1000kB file size (uniform distribution) Idle time between reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed. Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 ? =20 =20 /Ingemar =20 From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker=20 Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28 To: Ingemar Johansson S >; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org ) > Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 Please see inline below. =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar = Johansson S Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13 To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org ) > Subject: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and = bottleneck queue size =20 Hi =20 The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewhat It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue = should change as well or ? [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] No. Or is the intention that one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size=20 With a ref bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] yes and 300ms queue size that would then mean=20 0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ? =20 /Ingemar =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ingemar Johansson M.Sc.=20 Master Researcher =20 Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegr=E4nd 11 971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 = ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com =20 Real knowledge is to know the=20 extent of one's ignorance Confucius =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------=_NextPart_001_00CD_01D1D19B.48A7AF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Not sure I = understand the confusion.

 

If there is = no other traffic on the path except the TCP traffic the path capacity is = supposed to filled up by the TCP traffic.

 

By the way, = the short flows are supposed to me modeled according to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-04#s= ection-6.1

 

May be we = should remove the test specific information section for the eval-test = draft.

 

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: = Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 = 22:48
To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker = <zaheduzzaman.sarker@ericsson.com>; = rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on = draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

OK, then I = get it, thanks.

Stumbled on another = question, though.

 

When I run = TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes = quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps link gets = almost fully saturated 100% of the time.

The settings I use are

Linux TCP with Cubic

10 FTP clients

  100kB-1000kB file size (uniform = distribution)

  Idle time = between reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed.

Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 = ?

 

 

/Ingemar

 

From: = Zaheduzzaman Sarker
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 = 22:28
To: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@eric= sson.com>; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: = RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck = queue size

 

Please see = inline below.

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: rmcat = [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org]= On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 28 juni = 2016 18:13
To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: = [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Hi

 

The text in = section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me = somewhat

It mentions a bottleneck = queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the = queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue should change as well or = ?

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = No.

Or is the intention that = one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size =

With a ref bottleneck capacity of = 1Mbps

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = yes

and 300ms queue size that = would then mean

0.300*1e6 =3D = 300000bits ?

 

/Ingemar

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

Ingemar = Johansson  M.Sc.

Master = Researcher

 

Ericsson = AB

Wireless = Access Networks

Labratoriegr=E4= nd 11

971 28, = Lule=E5, Sweden

Phone +46-1071 = 43042

SMS/MMS +46-73 = 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com

www.ericsson.com

 

  &nb= sp; Real knowledge is to = know the

       extent of = one's ignorance

  &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Confucius

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

 

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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01D1D1D7.08BF8CC0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Jun 2016 05:22:48.7961 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB297 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA2WSe0hTYRjG+Xa201EbnKbmq2XlsKBZ3iiolKzIqKAL+YfhQLf0oCudds6S FEFLCjsmCSpegrI5ipqRiKJdyFxteEdzWorN28JMDG8laUln+xYE/ff73ud5n+97Xz6KkI1I /CiNVsewWnWqnHQXV55vitqtUHKxoYsL4fuMQ3PkIXTcYPgpOovi3COTmFRNJsOGHFS5p9TU 9ZAZ7aPoqn6pHOWhsi7EIzcK6D1gftEtwbwRem3PSAfL6HcIKt/n8Mhd4DYEeZYppyCmiwj4 /TkFC1YEq92GdfhgQdDUyTtjSToSHpuWnexFJ8DUDzPhYE86Dhb4fgLXlfClr0KC+Qh0zPKu G7aDsb5LCKUoqeAfmT+A87tFYOuaFDk8bkJvpd3uzEHCs5c7ap11gvaBYft9ER7HC8b7OknM 3jA9uSbB/kRYGCqSOPKB3gbjjaex5RS8bLwuctwF9BoB+TVGMRai4bvF6lqRBiYHv7rqSii1 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 05:22:56 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01D1D1D7.08BF8CC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0040_01D1D1D7.08BF8CC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0040_01D1D1D7.08BF8CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem I see is that with the original settings in section 5.7 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 you have a number of TCP connections = (ranging from 1 to 10, depending on the randomized settings) that continuously slowstart into a quite low bitrate bottleneck (only 2Mbps). What you get = is a very bursty traffic pattern that will hit a delay sensitive congestion control quite badly with very low media bitrate as a result.=20 Changing to an object size distribution between 30 and 50kbps gives = bursty transmission too but that is still manageable as the TCP flows do not saturate the link. =20 /Ingemar =20 From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker=20 Sent: den 29 juni 2016 00:15 To: Ingemar Johansson S ; = rmcat@ietf.org Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 Hi, =20 Not sure I understand the confusion. =20 If there is no other traffic on the path except the TCP traffic the path capacity is supposed to filled up by the TCP traffic. =20 By the way, the short flows are supposed to me modeled according to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-04#section-6.1= =20 May be we should remove the test specific information section for the eval-test draft. =20 =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: Ingemar Johansson S=20 Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:48 To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker >; rmcat@ietf.org =20 Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 OK, then I get it, thanks.=20 Stumbled on another question, though.=20 =20 When I run TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps = link gets almost fully saturated 100% of the time.=20 The settings I use are Linux TCP with Cubic 10 FTP clients=20 100kB-1000kB file size (uniform distribution) Idle time between reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed. Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 ? =20 =20 /Ingemar =20 From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker=20 Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28 To: Ingemar Johansson S >; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org ) > Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 Please see inline below. =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar = Johansson S Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13 To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org ) > Subject: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and = bottleneck queue size =20 Hi =20 The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewhat It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue = should change as well or ? [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] No. Or is the intention that one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size=20 With a ref bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] yes and 300ms queue size that would then mean=20 0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ? =20 /Ingemar =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ingemar Johansson M.Sc.=20 Master Researcher =20 Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegr=E4nd 11 971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 = ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com =20 Real knowledge is to know the=20 extent of one's ignorance Confucius =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0040_01D1D1D7.08BF8CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The problem I see is = that with the original settings in section 5.7 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 you have a number of TCP = connections (ranging from 1 to 10, depending on the randomized settings) = that continuously slowstart into a quite low bitrate bottleneck (only = 2Mbps). What you get is a very bursty traffic pattern that will hit a = delay sensitive congestion control quite badly with very low media = bitrate as a result.

Changing to an object size distribution between 30 and = 50kbps gives bursty transmission too but that is still manageable as the = TCP flows do not saturate the link.

 

/Ingemar

 

From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker =
Sent: den 29 juni 2016 00:15
To: Ingemar Johansson = S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>; = rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on = draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Hi,

 

Not sure I understand the = confusion.

 

If there is no other traffic on the path except the TCP = traffic the path capacity is supposed to filled up by the TCP = traffic.

 

By the way, the short flows are supposed to me modeled = according to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-04#s= ection-6.1

 

May be we should remove the test specific information = section for the eval-test draft.

 

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: Ingemar Johansson S =
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:48
To: Zaheduzzaman = Sarker <zaheduzzaman.sarker@eric= sson.com>; rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: RE: = [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

OK, then I get it, thanks.

Stumbled on another question, = though.

 

When I run TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the = TCP pressure becomes quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow = the 2Mbps link gets almost fully saturated 100% of the time. =

The = settings I use are

Linux TCP with Cubic

10 FTP clients =

  100kB-1000kB file size (uniform = distribution)

  Idle time between reads, 10s mean, exponentially = distributed.

Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 = ?

 

 

/Ingemar

 

From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker =
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28
To: Ingemar Johansson = S <ingemar.s.johansson@eric= sson.com>; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: = RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck = queue size

 

Please see inline below.

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org]= On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 28 juni = 2016 18:13
To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: = [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Hi

 

The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 = confuses me somewhat

It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that = the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop = tail queue should change as well or ?

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = No.

Or is the intention that one use = the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size =

With a ref = bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = yes

and 300ms queue size that would then mean =

0.300*1e6 = =3D 300000bits ?

 

/Ingemar

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

Ingemar = Johansson  M.Sc.

Master = Researcher

 

Ericsson = AB

Wireless = Access Networks

Labratoriegr=E4= nd 11

971 28, = Lule=E5, Sweden

Phone +46-1071 = 43042

SMS/MMS +46-73 = 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com

www.ericsson.com

 

  &nb= sp; Real knowledge is to = know the

       extent of = one's ignorance

  &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Confucius

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

 

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Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:02:35 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0135_01D1D1FE.15D8C080 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0136_01D1D1FE.15D8C080" ------=_NextPart_001_0136_01D1D1FE.15D8C080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ingemar, =20 If you have any suggestion on the TCP model and if you can show some = results on the effect of different TCP short flow modeling (the one in eval-test draft, the one in eval-criteria draft and your suggestion) at the IETF96 meeting that will be really great. We can discuss and agree on changing = the model. =20 The current convention is that all the modeling goes to the = eval-criteria draft hence we should remove the test specific information from section = 5.7 (I think it is there by mistake). =20 Thanks for finding the discrepancies. =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: Ingemar Johansson S=20 Sent: den 29 juni 2016 07:23 To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker ; = rmcat@ietf.org Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 The problem I see is that with the original settings in section 5.7 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 you have a number of TCP connections = (ranging from 1 to 10, depending on the randomized settings) that continuously slowstart into a quite low bitrate bottleneck (only 2Mbps). What you get = is a very bursty traffic pattern that will hit a delay sensitive congestion control quite badly with very low media bitrate as a result.=20 Changing to an object size distribution between 30 and 50kbps gives = bursty transmission too but that is still manageable as the TCP flows do not saturate the link. =20 /Ingemar =20 From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker=20 Sent: den 29 juni 2016 00:15 To: Ingemar Johansson S >; rmcat@ietf.org =20 Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 Hi, =20 Not sure I understand the confusion. =20 If there is no other traffic on the path except the TCP traffic the path capacity is supposed to filled up by the TCP traffic. =20 By the way, the short flows are supposed to me modeled according to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-04#section-6.1= =20 May be we should remove the test specific information section for the eval-test draft. =20 =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: Ingemar Johansson S=20 Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:48 To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker >; rmcat@ietf.org =20 Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 OK, then I get it, thanks.=20 Stumbled on another question, though.=20 =20 When I run TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps = link gets almost fully saturated 100% of the time.=20 The settings I use are Linux TCP with Cubic 10 FTP clients=20 100kB-1000kB file size (uniform distribution) Idle time between reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed. Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 ? =20 =20 /Ingemar =20 From: Zaheduzzaman Sarker=20 Sent: den 28 juni 2016 22:28 To: Ingemar Johansson S >; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org ) > Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue size =20 Please see inline below. =20 BR =20 Zahed =20 From: rmcat [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar = Johansson S Sent: den 28 juni 2016 18:13 To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org ) > Subject: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and = bottleneck queue size =20 Hi =20 The text in section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me somewhat It mentions a bottleneck queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue = should change as well or ? [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] No. Or is the intention that one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size=20 With a ref bottleneck capacity of 1Mbps [Zaheduzzaman Sarker] yes and 300ms queue size that would then mean=20 0.300*1e6 =3D 300000bits ? =20 /Ingemar =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ingemar Johansson M.Sc.=20 Master Researcher =20 Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegr=E4nd 11 971 28, Lule=E5, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 = ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com =20 Real knowledge is to know the=20 extent of one's ignorance Confucius =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0136_01D1D1FE.15D8C080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Ingemar,

 

If you have any suggestion on the TCP model and if you = can show some results on the effect of different TCP short flow modeling = (the one in eval-test draft, the one in eval-criteria draft and your = suggestion) at the IETF96 meeting that will be really great. We can = discuss and agree on changing the model.

 

The current = convention is that all the modeling goes to the eval-criteria draft = hence we should remove the test specific information from section 5.7 (I = think it is there by mistake).

 

Thanks for = finding the discrepancies.

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: = Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 29 juni 2016 = 07:23
To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker = <zaheduzzaman.sarker@ericsson.com>; = rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [rmcat] Question on = draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

The problem = I see is that with the original settings in section 5.7 in = draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 you have a number of TCP connections = (ranging from 1 to 10, depending on the randomized settings) that = continuously slowstart into a quite low bitrate bottleneck (only 2Mbps). = What you get is a very bursty traffic pattern that will hit a delay = sensitive congestion control quite badly with very low media bitrate as = a result.

Changing to an object size = distribution between 30 and 50kbps gives bursty transmission too but = that is still manageable as the TCP flows do not saturate the = link.

 

/Ingemar

 

From: = Zaheduzzaman Sarker
Sent: den 29 juni 2016 = 00:15
To: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@eric= sson.com>; rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: RE: = [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Hi,

 

Not sure I = understand the confusion.

 

If there is = no other traffic on the path except the TCP traffic the path capacity is = supposed to filled up by the TCP traffic.

 

By the way, = the short flows are supposed to me modeled according to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-04#s= ection-6.1

 

May be we = should remove the test specific information section for the eval-test = draft.

 

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: = Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 = 22:48
To: Zaheduzzaman Sarker <zaheduzzaman.sarker@eric= sson.com>; rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: RE: = [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

OK, then I = get it, thanks.

Stumbled on another = question, though.

 

When I run = TC 5.7 (many small TCP flows), it seems like the TCP pressure becomes = quite high. If I run completely without RMCAT flow the 2Mbps link gets = almost fully saturated 100% of the time.

The settings I use are

Linux TCP with Cubic

10 FTP clients

  100kB-1000kB file size (uniform = distribution)

  Idle time = between reads, 10s mean, exponentially distributed.

Have I misunderstood the description for TC5.7 = ?

 

 

/Ingemar

 

From: = Zaheduzzaman Sarker
Sent: den 28 juni 2016 = 22:28
To: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@eric= sson.com>; rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: = RE: [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck = queue size

 

Please see = inline below.

 

BR

 

Zahed

 

From: rmcat = [mailto:rmcat-bounces@ietf.org]= On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson S
Sent: den 28 juni = 2016 18:13
To: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) <rmcat@ietf.org>
Subject: = [rmcat] Question on draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 and bottleneck queue = size

 

Hi

 

The text in = section 4.2 in draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-test-03 confuses me = somewhat

It mentions a bottleneck = queue size of 300ms, given that the capacity changes this means that the = queue size in bytes of a drop tail queue should change as well or = ?

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = No.

Or is the intention that = one use the Reference bottleneck capacity to compute a queue size =

With a ref bottleneck capacity of = 1Mbps

[Zaheduzzaman Sarker] = yes

and 300ms queue size that = would then mean

0.300*1e6 =3D = 300000bits ?

 

/Ingemar

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

Ingemar = Johansson  M.Sc.

Master = Researcher

 

Ericsson = AB

Wireless = Access Networks

Labratoriegr=E4= nd 11

971 28, = Lule=E5, Sweden

Phone +46-1071 = 43042

SMS/MMS +46-73 = 078 3289

ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com

www.ericsson.com

 

  &nb= sp; Real knowledge is to = know the

       extent of = one's ignorance

  &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Confucius

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

 

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