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(217.225.27.23) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 6 Oct 2017 22:17:45 +0200 From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <39C69DDF-89C5-4014-9A0C-CA5D6BC3E69A@kuehlewind.net> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 22:17:43 +0200 Cc: "rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org)" To: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc.all@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171006201745.8021.22893@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] AD review of draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 20:17:57 -0000 Hi Ingemar, hi all, first of all sorry for the long delay. I think we need a quick update = before we can go to IEFT last call. There are a couple of normative = statements where no normative language should be used (see the list = below). Note that only things that are guidance for the implementation = can be normative. That means even though the words =E2=80=9Amay' or = =E2=80=9Amust' are used for e.g. describing something than can or will = happen in the network, it cannot be normative. Not all =E2=80=9Amay=E2=80=98= and =E2=80=9Amust=E2=80=98 must be written in upper case. In those = cases I propose below to use =E2=80=9Acan=E2=80=98 or =E2=80=9Ahave = to=E2=80=98 instead to be clear but one could also just use lower case = =E2=80=9Amay=E2=80=98 and =E2=80=9Amust=E2=80=98. Sec 1 (incl. 1.1):=20 "Applications that are deployed in the Internet MUST employ = congestion control, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C s/MUST/have to/ and =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 as the transmission channel bandwidth MAY vary = over time.=E2=80=9C s/MAY/can/ and =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 SHOULD be both quick and be able to operate over a = large range in channel capacity.=E2=80=9C s/SHOULD/should/ and "The network throughput MAY vary considerably for instance in cases where the wireless terminal is moving around.=E2=80=9C s/MAY/can/ and =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 the network throughput MAY drop for short time = intervals=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C s/MAY/can/ and "an RMCAT flow in that bearer SHOULD reduce the sending rate quite = quickly=E2=80=9C s/SHOULD/aims to/ and in sec 3.3: =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 it MAY be necessary to implement additional = actions =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C s/MAY/can/ and sec 4.1.1.1 =E2=80=9EThe target qdelay MUST NOT be initialized to this high = value=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C s/MUST NOT/does not have to/ Note: this one really changes the meaning because 'MUST NOT' would = mean you can not used the proposed value! in sec 4.1.2 =E2=80=9E... and MAY have the effect that =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C s/MAY/can/ in sec 4.1.2.2: "Still it SHOULD be possible to increase the qdelay target if the = qdelay continues to be high.=E2=80=9C and sec 4.1.2.4: "the one way delay in the reverse direction MAY jump due to = congestion=E2=80=9C s/MAY/can/ sec 4.1.3: =E2=80=9E...that MAY itself cause an unnecessary rate reduction...=E2=80= =9C s/MAY/can/ also sec 4.1.3: "The aware reader MAY notice the dependency on the qdelay...=E2=80=9C s/MAY/may/ also sec 4.1.3: =E2=80=9E...one MAY suspect some odd interaction between the media rate control and the network congestion control=E2=80= =A6" s/MAY/may/ sec 4.2.1: "In a typical use case, no more than four Loss RLE chunks SHOULD be needed...=E2=80=9C s/SHOULD be/are/ also sec 4.2.1 "The more bulky format MAY be nevertheless be useful for e.g ECN black-hole detection.=E2=80=9C s/MAY be/could/ sec 4.2.2: =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 immediate or early mode is not REQUIRED by SCReAM but MAY nonetheless be useful for e.g RTCP messages not directly related to SCReAM.=E2=80=9C s/REQUIRED/required/ s/MAY/can/ sec 5: "Future work on Low Loss Low Latency for Scalable throughput (L4S)=20 MAY lead to updates in a future RFC that describes SCReAM support for = L4S.=E2=80=9C s/MAY/may/ also sec 5: "A new RFC4585 transport layer feedback message MAY to be standardized=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C s/MAY/could/ sec 7: =E2=80=9E...it MAY be necessary to use different values=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C= s/MAY/may/ Also in the following sentence you can use normative language but = RECOMMENDED basically means SHOULD but I believe you probably rather = want to use a MAY here.=20 sec 4.1.2.2.:=20 OLD "It is therefore RECOMMENDED that the algorithm described in this section is turned off it is deemed unlikely that competing flows occur over the same bottleneck=E2=80=9C NEW: =E2=80=9EIf it is deemed unlikely that competing flows occur over the = same bottleneck, the algorithm described in this section MAY be turned off." And maybe even add another sentence to further clarify why this is a = MAY: =E2=80=9EHowever, when sending over the Internet, often the network = conditions are not known for sure. Therefore turning this algorithm off = must be considered with caution as that can lead to basically zero = throughput if competing with other traffic." Further, there are quite a few cases where normative language = could/should be used but is not, e.g. in se 4.1.2 OLD =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 further detected lost RTP packets are ignored for a = full smoothed round trip time=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C NEW "further detected lost RTP packets SHOULD be ignored for a full smoothed = round trip time=E2=80=9C There are probably more cases. It would also be okay to not use = normatively language at all if that=E2=80=99s easier for you. Or I or = maybe Martin as the shepherd can help if this is unclear. However, = it=E2=80=99s more important to remove the wrong use of normative = languages as listed above and less important to use normative language, = given this is a sender-side only congestion control scheme. @Martin: One request regarding the shepherd write-up: Can you maybe add = a note explaining why this is experimental. I know it=E2=80=99s charter = as experimental first, however, it could be good for the other ADs to = know that this has been so far only tested in simulations but it deemed = to be safe for experimentation in the Internet now and that after that = experimentation phase the group is charter to go for proposed standard. Also maybe have another look at the security consideration section. This = seems rather short and I can imagine that we will get some questions in = the sec-dir review e.g. regarding the safety of using scream in the = Internet and co-existence/fairness with other schemes. See below for some more mostly editorial comments. Given you have to = update it would probably be good to address those as well where = appropriate. Mirja ---------------------------------------- 1) The intro does not really say that this congestion is designed for = the use with RTP traffic. I think it would help to say this early on = (and give a reference to RTP). 2) Also in the intro: Please at a reference for WebRTC (and eventually expand the acronym)=20= 3) sec 4.1.1.2: min_cwnd is a constant and should be moved to 4.1.1.1 = and written in upper letters (in the whole doc) 4) Sec 4.1.2: I would recommend to move the autocorrelation function R = into the body of the document. It is not much text and probably easier = for an implementor to read. 5) Sec 4.1.2: I would recommend to split out the part on reaction to = loss/ECN as a separate sub subsection, meaning just add a new heading = before the paragraph that starts with "A loss event is indicated=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=9C 6)4.1.2.1: I don=E2=80=99t understand this: The text say: =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 this specification however limits the gain when CWND is increased dependent on near congestion state and the relation to the last known max CWND value.=E2=80=9C However, the pseudo code only say "gain_t =3D GAIN=E2=80=9C Is there something missing?=20 7) sec 4.1.2.2: maybe use a more meaningful name for oh_t 8) I guess even the text on stream privatization (A.1.) should just be = moved somewhere in the body of the doc (e.g. as a subsection of the = discussion section (5) or a completely new own section) From nobody Mon Oct 9 05:46:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D7113422F; 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[IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED6012ECEC; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 05:49:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150755337658.18418.15578456933193028246@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 05:49:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 12:49:36 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG of the IETF. Title : Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia Authors : Ingemar Johansson Zaheduzzaman Sarker Filename : draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2017-10-09 Abstract: This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a Long Term Evolution (LTE) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 9 07:22:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6610134300; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 07:22:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, rmcat@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, ietf@kuehlewind.net, draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org, Martin Stiemerling Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <150755893974.18405.5526400935332356092.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:22:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Last Call: (Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:22:20 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG (rmcat) to consider the following document: - 'Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia' as Experimental RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-10-23. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a Long Term Evolution (LTE) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2890/ From nobody Tue Oct 10 00:09:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78392134F02 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 00:09:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n2R9zLWczbmW for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 00:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E0541347F7 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 00:04:53 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=VNPOLUpHPbgkzvMP+mbsKFcElwpkY+fHMQjj0lqfy8JIw1S4pEkKLCO1F54e6IoqXzMNPoWtFDMMNfjRvCtPSAPjDQIg8aFdjN4VfAwbnxInKuj/N+BdYr5O0wZFL/M0z7PH15c5samJlDKzXyyomKXZ+QXfxJZzsetb8jBnbyg=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 11497 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2017 09:04:52 +0200 Received: from pd9e11e61.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO ?192.168.178.33?) (217.225.30.97) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 10 Oct 2017 09:04:52 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:04:52 +0200 Cc: "draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc.all@ietf.org" , "rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <52F942DE-2877-4BAE-9202-8234E6227137@kuehlewind.net> References: <39C69DDF-89C5-4014-9A0C-CA5D6BC3E69A@kuehlewind.net> To: Ingemar Johansson S X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171010070452.11491.30823@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] AD review of draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 07:09:26 -0000 Okay. Thanks! I=E2=80=99ve requested the IETF last cast! Mirja > Am 09.10.2017 um 14:46 schrieb Ingemar Johansson S = : >=20 > Hi > And thanks for a very thorough read-trough. I have implemented all of = your suggested changes in the new version and also added normative = language where it is actually needed. > An updated version is submitted soon >=20 >=20 > A few comments: >=20 >> 6)4.1.2.1: I don=E2=80=99t understand this: >> The text say: >> =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 this specification however >> limits the gain when CWND is increased dependent on near >> congestion state and the relation to the last known max CWND >> value.=E2=80=9C >> However, the pseudo code only say >> "gain_t =3D GAIN=E2=80=9C >> Is there something missing? > You are right, SCReAM in fact does this in pretty much the same was as = LEDBAT does, as a result I removed this statement completely.=20 >=20 > As regards to the security considerations. I am not sure what more = information that should be added so I may need to wait for the review = comments. >=20 > /Ingemar >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) [mailto:ietf@kuehlewind.net] >> Sent: den 6 oktober 2017 22:18 >> To: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc.all@ietf.org >> Cc: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) >> Subject: AD review of draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc >>=20 >> Hi Ingemar, hi all, >>=20 >> first of all sorry for the long delay. I think we need a quick update = before we >> can go to IEFT last call. There are a couple of normative statements = where no >> normative language should be used (see the list below). Note that = only >> things that are guidance for the implementation can be normative. = That >> means even though the words =E2=80=9Amay' or =E2=80=9Amust' are used = for e.g. describing >> something than can or will happen in the network, it cannot be = normative. >> Not all =E2=80=9Amay=E2=80=98 and =E2=80=9Amust=E2=80=98 must be = written in upper case. In those cases I >> propose below to use =E2=80=9Acan=E2=80=98 or =E2=80=9Ahave to=E2=80=98= instead to be clear but one could also >> just use lower case =E2=80=9Amay=E2=80=98 and =E2=80=9Amust=E2=80=98. >>=20 >> Sec 1 (incl. 1.1): >> "Applications that are deployed in the Internet MUST employ = congestion >> control, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C >> s/MUST/have to/ >> and >> =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 as the transmission channel bandwidth MAY vary = over time.=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/can/ >> and >> =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 SHOULD be both quick and be able to operate over = a large >> range in channel capacity.=E2=80=9C >> s/SHOULD/should/ >> and >> "The network throughput MAY vary >> considerably for instance in cases where the wireless terminal is >> moving around.=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/can/ >> and >> =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 the network throughput MAY drop for short time = intervals=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/can/ >> and >> "an RMCAT flow in that bearer SHOULD reduce the sending rate quite >> quickly=E2=80=9C >> s/SHOULD/aims to/ >> and in sec 3.3: >> =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 it MAY be necessary to implement additional = actions =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/can/ >> and sec 4.1.1.1 >> =E2=80=9EThe target qdelay MUST NOT be initialized to this high = value=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C >> s/MUST NOT/does not have to/ >> Note: this one really changes the meaning because 'MUST NOT' would >> mean you can not used the proposed value! >> in sec 4.1.2 >> =E2=80=9E... and MAY have the effect that =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/can/ >> in sec 4.1.2.2: >> "Still it SHOULD be possible to increase the qdelay target if the = qdelay >> continues to be high.=E2=80=9C >> and sec 4.1.2.4: >> "the one way delay in the reverse direction MAY jump due to = congestion=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/can/ >> sec 4.1.3: >> =E2=80=9E...that MAY itself cause an unnecessary rate = reduction...=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/can/ >> also sec 4.1.3: >> "The aware reader MAY notice the dependency on the qdelay...=E2=80=9C= >> s/MAY/may/ >> also sec 4.1.3: >> =E2=80=9E...one MAY suspect some odd interaction >> between the media rate control and the network congestion = control=E2=80=A6" >> s/MAY/may/ >> sec 4.2.1: >> "In a typical use case, no more than four Loss RLE chunks SHOULD be >> needed...=E2=80=9C >> s/SHOULD be/are/ >> also sec 4.2.1 >> "The more bulky format MAY be nevertheless be useful >> for e.g ECN black-hole detection.=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY be/could/ >> sec 4.2.2: >> =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 immediate or early mode is not >> REQUIRED by SCReAM but MAY nonetheless be useful for e.g RTCP >> messages not directly related to SCReAM.=E2=80=9C >> s/REQUIRED/required/ >> s/MAY/can/ >> sec 5: >> "Future work on Low Loss Low Latency for Scalable throughput (L4S) >> MAY lead to updates in a future RFC that describes SCReAM support = for >> L4S.=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/may/ >> also sec 5: >> "A new RFC4585 transport layer feedback message MAY to be >> standardized=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C >> s/MAY/could/ >> sec 7: >> =E2=80=9E...it MAY be necessary to use different values=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =9C >> s/MAY/may/ >>=20 >> Also in the following sentence you can use normative language but >> RECOMMENDED basically means SHOULD but I believe you probably rather >> want to use a MAY here. >> sec 4.1.2.2.: >> OLD >> "It is therefore >> RECOMMENDED that the algorithm described in this section is turned >> off it is deemed unlikely that competing flows occur over the same >> bottleneck=E2=80=9C >> NEW: >> =E2=80=9EIf it is deemed unlikely that competing flows occur over the = same >> bottleneck, the algorithm described in this section MAY be turned >> off." >> And maybe even add another sentence to further clarify why this is a = MAY: >> =E2=80=9EHowever, when sending over the Internet, often the network = conditions >> are not known for sure. Therefore turning this algorithm off must be >> considered with caution as that can lead to basically zero throughput = if >> competing with other traffic." >>=20 >> Further, there are quite a few cases where normative language = could/should >> be used but is not, e.g. in se 4.1.2 OLD =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 further = detected lost RTP packets >> are ignored for a full smoothed round trip time=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C NEW = "further detected lost >> RTP packets SHOULD be ignored for a full smoothed round trip time=E2=80= =9C >>=20 >> There are probably more cases. It would also be okay to not use = normatively >> language at all if that=E2=80=99s easier for you. Or I or maybe = Martin as the shepherd >> can help if this is unclear. However, it=E2=80=99s more important to = remove the wrong >> use of normative languages as listed above and less important to use >> normative language, given this is a sender-side only congestion = control >> scheme. >>=20 >> @Martin: One request regarding the shepherd write-up: Can you maybe = add >> a note explaining why this is experimental. I know it=E2=80=99s = charter as >> experimental first, however, it could be good for the other ADs to = know that >> this has been so far only tested in simulations but it deemed to be = safe for >> experimentation in the Internet now and that after that = experimentation >> phase the group is charter to go for proposed standard. >>=20 >> Also maybe have another look at the security consideration section. = This >> seems rather short and I can imagine that we will get some questions = in the >> sec-dir review e.g. regarding the safety of using scream in the = Internet and >> co-existence/fairness with other schemes. >>=20 >> See below for some more mostly editorial comments. Given you have to >> update it would probably be good to address those as well where >> appropriate. >>=20 >> Mirja >>=20 >> ---------------------------------------- >> 1) The intro does not really say that this congestion is designed for = the use >> with RTP traffic. I think it would help to say this early on (and = give a reference >> to RTP). >>=20 >> 2) Also in the intro: >> Please at a reference for WebRTC (and eventually expand the = acronym) >>=20 >> 3) sec 4.1.1.2: min_cwnd is a constant and should be moved to 4.1.1.1 = and >> written in upper letters (in the whole doc) >>=20 >> 4) Sec 4.1.2: I would recommend to move the autocorrelation function = R into >> the body of the document. It is not much text and probably easier for = an >> implementor to read. >>=20 >> 5) Sec 4.1.2: I would recommend to split out the part on reaction to = loss/ECN >> as a separate sub subsection, meaning just add a new heading before = the >> paragraph that starts with "A loss event is indicated=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C= >>=20 >> 6)4.1.2.1: I don=E2=80=99t understand this: >> The text say: >> =E2=80=9E=E2=80=A6 this specification however >> limits the gain when CWND is increased dependent on near >> congestion state and the relation to the last known max CWND >> value.=E2=80=9C >> However, the pseudo code only say >> "gain_t =3D GAIN=E2=80=9C >> Is there something missing? >>=20 >> 7) sec 4.1.2.2: maybe use a more meaningful name for oh_t >>=20 >> 8) I guess even the text on stream privatization (A.1.) should just = be moved >> somewhere in the body of the doc (e.g. as a subsection of the = discussion >> section (5) or a completely new own section) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 From nobody Sat Oct 14 12:11:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E1D132F2C; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:11:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joel Halpern To: Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150800826627.5002.3512681363312837857@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:11:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 19:11:06 -0000 Reviewer: Joel Halpern Review result: Almost Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 Reviewer: Joel Halpern Review Date: 2017-10-14 IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-23 IESG Telechat date: 2017-10-26 Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as an experimental RFC. The reviewer hopes that the problem noted here are due to his mis-reading. Major issues: The description of "a" after the pseudocode in section 4.1.2 states that it is positive when qdelay is increasing, and negative when qdelay is decreasing. However, a is the ratio of two evaluations of the function R with different lags. And R is defined as the sum of products of entries in the history vector. The history elements (qdelay_fraction_avg) are always positive. So the terms in R are always positive. So a is always positive? Minor issues: There appears to be something odd with the mathematical expression for the autocorrelation function R or its usage. As written, with lag k the function uses N-k terms. Which means that if the qdelay stays perfectly constant, a will be N-1/N rather than 1 (i.e. 0.95). If this is intentional, it would be good to say so. What does the text in section 3.1 reading "It is however necessary that they [ sender and receiver] use the same clock frequency" mean? Times are exchanged. Frequencies are not. Is this intended to be a statement about resolution? it appears to describe something that is not visible to the protocol. As such, what happens if the requirement is not met and the failure is not detected?" max_bytes_in_flight appears in the pseudocode in section 4.1.2.2, but does not appear in the list of state variables earlier in the document. Nits/editorial comments: In the pseudocode in section 4.1.2, is the variable "a" really "a_t"? In section 4.1.1.2 in the definition of min_cwnd, should there be a note about the (admittedly unlikely) case where 2*MSS is less then MIN_CWND? In the last paragraph of 4.1.2.2, is the new cwnd limited by the variable min_cwnd as stated in the text, or the constant MIN-CWND as shown in the pseudocode? 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Y29kZT8NCltJSl0gU2hvdWxkIGJlIE1JTl9DV05EIGluIGFsbCBwbGFjZXMuIG1pbl9jd25kIHNo b3VsZCBiZSByZW1vdmVkLiANCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Oct 18 22:10:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA431343C3 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 22:10:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3ZgEokgOclo for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 22:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: 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(p200300061373C155BD9F8424C5161634.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:6:1373:c155:bd9f:8424:c516:1634]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id w126sm495987wme.25.2017.10.18.22.10.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Oct 2017 22:10:08 -0700 (PDT) To: "rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org)" From: Martin Stiemerling Message-ID: <314c2513-4595-0c5f-6e91-fda823be57b0@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 07:10:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Please send agenda requests for IETF-100 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 05:10:14 -0000 Hi all, please send agenda requests for rmcat at the IETF-100 meeting. Please send any request to us by October 22nd, 9pm UK time. Thanks, Martin From nobody Fri Oct 20 17:29:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D92F134539; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: rmcat@ietf.org, ietf@kuehlewind.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150854546618.20809.16322071902447423921.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] rmcat - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:24:26 -0000 Dear Colin Perkins, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. rmcat Session 1 (1:30:00) Wednesday, Afternoon Session I 1330-1500 Room Name: Orchard size: 50 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Colin Perkins Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: avtcore irtfopen maprg mmusic rtcweb taps tsvarea tsvwg xrblock tcpm iccrg quic Second Priority: artarea dispatch People who must be present: Dr. Colin Perkins Martin Stiemerling Mirja Kuehlewind Anna Brunstrom Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Oct 23 05:26:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6A61385A7; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:26:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150876159184.24860.11089571766324061473@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:26:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:26:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG of the IETF. Title : Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia Authors : Ingemar Johansson Zaheduzzaman Sarker Filename : draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2017-10-23 Abstract: This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a Long Term Evolution (LTE) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 24 19:33:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844571397F9; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:33:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org, Martin Stiemerling , rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150889879749.4870.9970558833072960470.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:33:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 02:33:17 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm a Yes with lots of questions and comments. You may be educating me, rather than making text changes, as seems appropriate. Because 4.1.1.1. Constants The RECOMMENDED values, within (), for the constants are deduced from experiments. provides recommended, but not required, constant values (which is fine), could you say something about, or just provide a reference to, those experiments, so that implementers and deployers could verify that they are in an environment that was considered by the working group? I'd also note that most of the constants, but not all, have associated text that says basically "if you dork with this constant, here's what's likely to change". Some of those constants are pretty self-evident even to me, but not all of them. That could have been intentional, but the working group is likely to have a better grip on that than J. Typical Coder On A Deadline in a couple of years, so if there are useful things to say, I'd imagine people would listen to you. Is QDELAY_TREND_TH (0.2) Averaging factor for qdelay_fraction_avg. QDELAY_TREND_TH (0.2) Averaging factor for qdelay_fraction_avg. a duplicate? In this text, rtp_queue_size (0 bits) Size of RTP packets in queue. rtp_size (0 byte) Size of the last transmitted RTP packet. is "size" being used in the same way (so, rtp_queue_size would be the total number of bytes in queue)? But I'm guessing. Maybe "Sum of the sizes of RTP packets in queue"? ISTM that Note that the pseudo code does not show all details for reasons of readability, the reader is encouraged to look into the C++ code in [SCReAM-CPP-implementation] for the details. might make SCReAM-CPP-implementation a normative reference. Does "encouraged to look at" mean "really needs to look at"? In this text, It is desired to avoid the case that the qdelay target is increased due to self-congestion, indicated by a changing qdelay and consequently an increased qdelay_norm_var_t. Still it SHOULD be possible to increase the qdelay target if the qdelay continues to be high. I got lost in the passive tense. Is this saying that *an implementation* should be able to increase the qdelay target algorithmically? This text, If it is deemed unlikely that competing flows occur over the same bottleneck, the algorithm described in this section MAY be turned off. However, when sending over the Internet, often the network conditions are not known for sure. Therefore turning this algorithm off must be considered with caution as that can lead to basically zero throughput if competing with other, loss based, traffic. bothers me a bit, because I'm not sure how a transport implementation knows that it's sending over the Internet. We have discussions from time to time about networks that are playing games with non-RFC 1918 addresses and NATs, for instance, and networks that are directly interconnected can be using routable addresses, while not "sending over the Internet". Is the point that an implementation that turns the algorithm off is well-advised to detect that it should turn the algorithm on? I couldn't parse A strict rule can lead to that the media bitrate will have difficulties to increase as the congestion window puts a too hard restriction on the media frame size variation. without guessing. I lost my way at "can lead to that the media bitrate". From nobody Wed Oct 25 06:04:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE09E1375C9; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 06:04:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org, Martin Stiemerling , rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150893665572.4719.12540336704273987827.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 06:04:15 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:04:16 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm a Yes with lots of questions and comments. You may be educating me, rather than making text changes, as seems appropriate. Because 4.1.1.1. Constants The RECOMMENDED values, within (), for the constants are deduced from experiments. provides recommended, but not required, constant values (which is fine), could you say something about, or just provide a reference to, those experiments, so that implementers and deployers could verify that they are in an environment that was considered by the working group? I'd also note that most of the constants, but not all, have associated text that says basically "if you dork with this constant, here's what's likely to change". Some of those constants are pretty self-evident even to me, but not all of them. That could have been intentional, but the working group is likely to have a better grip on that than J. Typical Coder On A Deadline in a couple of years, so if there are useful things to say, I'd imagine people would listen to you. Is QDELAY_TREND_TH (0.2) Averaging factor for qdelay_fraction_avg. QDELAY_TREND_TH (0.2) Averaging factor for qdelay_fraction_avg. a duplicate? In this text, rtp_queue_size (0 bits) Size of RTP packets in queue. rtp_size (0 byte) Size of the last transmitted RTP packet. is "size" being used in the same way (so, rtp_queue_size would be the total number of bytes in queue)? But I'm guessing. Maybe "Sum of the sizes of RTP packets in queue"? ISTM that Note that the pseudo code does not show all details for reasons of readability, the reader is encouraged to look into the C++ code in [SCReAM-CPP-implementation] for the details. might make SCReAM-CPP-implementation a normative reference. Does "encouraged to look at" mean "really needs to look at"? In this text, It is desired to avoid the case that the qdelay target is increased due to self-congestion, indicated by a changing qdelay and consequently an increased qdelay_norm_var_t. Still it SHOULD be possible to increase the qdelay target if the qdelay continues to be high. I got lost in the passive tense. Is this saying that *an implementation* should be able to increase the qdelay target algorithmically? This text, If it is deemed unlikely that competing flows occur over the same bottleneck, the algorithm described in this section MAY be turned off. However, when sending over the Internet, often the network conditions are not known for sure. Therefore turning this algorithm off must be considered with caution as that can lead to basically zero throughput if competing with other, loss based, traffic. bothers me a bit, because I'm not sure how a transport implementation knows that it's sending over the Internet. We have discussions from time to time about networks that are playing games with non-RFC 1918 addresses and NATs, for instance, and networks that are directly interconnected can be using routable addresses, while not "sending over the Internet". Is the point that an implementation that turns the algorithm off is well-advised to detect that it should turn the algorithm on? I couldn't parse A strict rule can lead to that the media bitrate will have difficulties to increase as the congestion window puts a too hard restriction on the media frame size variation. without guessing. I lost my way at "can lead to that the media bitrate". From nobody Wed Oct 25 13:06:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02848137ED6; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:06:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org, Martin Stiemerling , rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150896198996.4854.3978820125361547118.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:06:29 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:06:30 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Just a few mostly editorial comments: - Abstract: By "such as video", am I correct to assume this is specific to interactive video? - 3.3: The MUST and MAY seem more like statements of fact than normative requirements. - 4.1.2, last paragraph: The MAY seems like a statement of fact. - 4.1.2.3, last paragraph: Ditto for the SHOULD -- Informational References: It seems like the references to RFCs 3550 and 3611 are needed to really understand this document, which would make them normative. From nobody Wed Oct 25 18:23:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547F11395F3; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:23:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.28 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.28 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=EOwHd4Dv; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=OT9NOPX1 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LY19xAOEBXAB; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B15ED13A214; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBAF20853; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 21:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 25 Oct 2017 21:23:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=so7cxS9/GTEpyfboX2fONojCnoQ/u KIbhVW/RmTHxoY=; b=EOwHd4DvMcwbbrjmAsw2Wmru+V1BSgPyY9SxMzXtKgqZe nwiTGtSMK7l59NpY0tQWn6s/gPexaUFRsFChWWAUJa9NdcDPmGLcuc0VxepdHl6I VA9Cx4+7Cw6Cho8S1LPh4BYkjVYyVM5lTvOfVaQXUGjGNSDNalU4oWkBJqkgTSUd iwpcCP8uUFSZJp109zHi+BFsW0HDwtGHyNmRUvTdNYy4cOAN5EVWyleW6PUviZkG BxH7KazwzT6AvV0NR2vXMllAU0rtNtN9hocoi8kd+tJTiP6XOM2GphI35qHA3tsZ GJyc/OqqmQfcS/0/U7jnq9MMJ3rGRMfe5SlrH00MA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=so7cxS 9/GTEpyfboX2fONojCnoQ/uKIbhVW/RmTHxoY=; b=OT9NOPX1n3SMRjEdDgotNu UdMudjbPbnESM3ljcfrjITLIUjPsIa4y5O0zpkc8kCzHiiRlzjBWc8VPW9p86epy K30f2jGQSt1qJbEqmAM0LlbaJQs4/AKUxLrSTFXYGofSEd5rLtDGhETgfHsh0t91 4uZHg8qQ7+kctipjizO0NGdCrGRBG0t8jFyruzkNMYNqXF+O9rj1fuX4NPwfilTb 9zY+E7ETX8+2W2VWtP+Jwf2NTy+OSXUKjK6BEH9FYmtRi71ao+QtxOyYKStZGQ9w GCeNF5XwP2B2qPa4W5d+qZFCBUr1YOIZsldEaGsZEb+T4V6Ml9VWZv+tL7S/Xg6Q == X-ME-Sender: Received: from [10.24.101.233] (unknown [128.107.241.191]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A5987248D1; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 21:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 21:23:22 -0400 Cc: Joel Halpern , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc.all@ietf.org" , "rmcat@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0900BB71-59F5-4266-A067-E8A54DDF8DF8@cooperw.in> References: <150800826627.5002.3512681363312837857@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Ingemar Johansson S X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 01:23:26 -0000 Joel, thanks for your review. Ingemar, thanks for addressing Joel=E2=80=99= s comments. I have entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Oct 15, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Ingemar Johansson S = wrote: >=20 > Hi > Thanks for your review comments. Answers inline marked [IJ] >=20 > /Ingemar >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joel Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >> Sent: den 14 oktober 2017 21:11 >> To: gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = rmcat@ietf.org >> Subject: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 >>=20 >> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >> Review result: Almost Ready >>=20 >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area = Review >> Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG = for >> the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last = call >> comments. >>=20 >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>=20 >> . >>=20 >> Document: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-11 >> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >> Review Date: 2017-10-14 >> IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-23 >> IESG Telechat date: 2017-10-26 >>=20 >> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as an = experimental >> RFC. >>=20 >> The reviewer hopes that the problem noted here are due to his = mis-reading. >>=20 >> Major issues: >> The description of "a" after the pseudocode in section 4.1.2 = states that >> it is positive when qdelay is increasing, and negative when = qdelay is >> decreasing. However, a is the ratio of two evaluations of the = function R >> with different lags. And R is defined as the sum of products of = entries >> in the history vector. The history elements = (qdelay_fraction_avg) are >> always positive. So the terms in R are always positive. So a is = always >> positive? > [IJ] You are absolutely right !, this is an error in the description. = The variable a should actually be computed based on the vector = qdelay_fraction_hist with the mean (DC component) removed. > The corrected code would be (I changed a to a_t as it is a temporary = variable. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > # Compute the average of the values in qdelay_fraction_hist > avg_t =3D average(qdelay_fraction_hist) =20 > # R is an autocorrelation function of qdelay_fraction_hist, =20 > # with the mean (DC component) removed, at lag K > # The subtraction of the scalar avg_t from qdelay_fraction_hist > # is performed element-wise. > a_t =3D = R(qdelay_fraction_hist-avg_t,1)/R(qdelay_fraction_hist-avg_t,0) > . > . > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >>=20 >> Minor issues: >> There appears to be something odd with the mathematical = expression for >> the >> autocorrelation function R or its usage. As written, with lag k = the >> function uses N-k terms. Which means that if the qdelay stays = perfectly >> constant, a will be N-1/N rather than 1 (i.e. 0.95). If this is >> intentional, it would be good to say so. > [IJ] I believe this I becomes clear with the correction above. It is = possible to compute an unbiased estimate but it is not necessary for the = function here.=20 >=20 >>=20 >> What does the text in section 3.1 reading "It is however = necessary that >> they [ sender and receiver] use the same clock frequency" mean? = Times >> are >> exchanged. Frequencies are not. Is this intended to be a = statement about >> resolution? it appears to describe something that is not visible = to the >> protocol. As such, what happens if the requirement is not met = and the >> failure is not detected?" > [IJ] OK. What about add something like=20 > "Failure to meet this requirement leads to malfunction in the SCReAM = congestion control algorithm as the queue delay will not be estimated = correctly."=20 >=20 >>=20 >> max_bytes_in_flight appears in the pseudocode in section 4.1.2.2, = but >> does >> not appear in the list of state variables earlier in the document. > [IJ] OK, will fix this >>=20 >> Nits/editorial comments: >> In the pseudocode in section 4.1.2, is the variable "a" really = "a_t"? > [IJ] Should be a_t >>=20 >> In section 4.1.1.2 in the definition of min_cwnd, should there be = a note >> about the (admittedly unlikely) case where 2*MSS is less then >> MIN_CWND? > [IJ] actually min_cwnd should be replaced by MIN_CWND and min_cwnd = should be removed from the document >>=20 >> In the last paragraph of 4.1.2.2, is the new cwnd limited by the = variable >> min_cwnd as stated in the text, or the constant MIN-CWND as shown = in >> the >> pseudocode? > [IJ] Should be MIN_CWND in all places. min_cwnd should be removed.=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Oct 25 22:51:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794B213F44D; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:51:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org, Martin Stiemerling , rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150899711347.24114.14191696188441903068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:51:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 05:51:53 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm confused about whether the text in this document is intended to form a normative description of SCReAM. The document contains the following statement: Note that the pseudo code does not show all details for reasons of readability, the reader is encouraged to look into the C++ code in [SCReAM-CPP-implementation] for the details. This effectively states that the cited C++ code forms the normative specification of the SCReAM algorithm, and that this document is a non-normative companion to help understand the normative code. If this is the case, then: - The [SCReAM-CPP-implementation] reference needs to be moved from "Informative References" to "Normative References", - The abstract and introduction need to make it much clearer that the normative definition of the SCReAM algorithm is a body of C++ code rather than the prose and psuedocode in this document, and - We need to coordinate with the RFC editor to ensure proper archival of the code at [SCReAM-CPP-implementation]. At this time, github.com does not meet the standards of archival quality that the RFC series is expected to meet. If the C++ implementation is *not* the normative definition of SCReAM, then the psuedocode and definitions in this document need to be complete and sufficient to implement the algorithm; and, in particular, it cannot omit algorithm details "for reasons of readability." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 5 indicates: o Support for alternate ECN semantics: This specification adopts the proposal in [I-D.ietf-tcpm-alternativebackoff-ecn] to reduce the congestion window less when ECN based congestion events are detected. This needs some clarification. While the psuedocode in section 4.1.2.2 has two different code paths for ECN- versus non-ECN-congestion, they differ only in terms of whether they reduce the CWND according to BETA_LOSS versus BETA_ECN. Section 4.1.1.1 defines the RECOMMENDED value for both of these constants as 0.8. If these are the same value, then treatment of ECN will be identical to treatment of loss, right? I suspect that either (a) one of these values was intended to be different than the other, or (b) I've missed some additional ECN-related handling that provides differential treatment. If neither is true, please amend the statement in Section 5 to be more accurate (i.e.: the algorithm supports differential handling, but the normatively recommended configuration does not provide it). ___ The document talks extensively about ECN, without ever making it clear whether the SCReAM algorithm works without ECN. The final paragraph of section 4.2.1 sort of implies that it is optional; but this is very late in the document, and it isn't very explicit. I would suggest adding text to the introduction that indicates that the algorithm can take advantage of ECN information when it is present, but that it does not require ECN to work properly. ___ Minor editorial comments follow. Section 1.2: the RTP queue is kept short (preferably empty). In addition the output from a video encoder is rarely constant bitrate, static content (talking heads) for instance gives almost zero video rate. I think you mean "bit rate" rather than "video rate." Section 4.1.1.1: QDELAY_WEIGHT (0.1) Averaging factor for qdelay_fraction_avg. QDELAY_TREND_TH (0.2) Averaging factor for qdelay_fraction_avg. QDELAY_TREND_TH (0.2) Averaging factor for qdelay_fraction_avg. All three of these appear to have the same definition, and the last two appear to have the same name. Please expand ECN and EWMA on first use. 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AMCzsaXOFhYk2rOdSm9QXVGnf82Z3+EWkOatrTOeK4n9+pxvXtk7dhGM ar07EIrhywXaM4qDXmOvySWaKCZVCogN4+lj81blZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TasGYvSzo0knGRicKqe2RSdmcGzPPk97fXv9G2eewR4EQlMJBf0TMyCJ7ZWWd5SOMLflMfDH/uJgE5w0dWRxc= X-Received: by 10.99.178.15 with SMTP id x15mr2279824pge.243.1509009297073; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 02:14:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.241.71 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 02:14:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tina Tsou Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 02:14:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc.all@ietf.org Cc: ops-dir@ietf.org, rmcat@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1b944a1d6d0c055c6f9b0b" Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] OPS DIR review of draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12 X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 09:14:59 -0000 --94eb2c1b944a1d6d0c055c6f9b0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, I have been selected as OPS-DIR reviewer for this document. Document: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12 Reviewer: Tina Tsou Review result: ready for publication -12 solved most issues from -10, it is ready for publication with nits check. -- Thank you, Tina --94eb2c1b944a1d6d0c055c6f9b0b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

I have been selected as OPS-DIR reviewer for this document.

Document:=C2=A0draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12

Reviewer: Tina Tsou

Review result: rea= dy for publication

-12 solved m= ost issues from -10, it is ready for publication with nits check.
-- <= br>

Thank you,
Tina
--94eb2c1b944a1d6d0c055c6f9b0b-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 06:19:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6E613F58D; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:19:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m0mRuEb82cFn; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE25313F589; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Svantevit.local (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v9QDJI8Y016837 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:19:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Svantevit.local To: Ingemar Johansson S , The IESG Cc: "draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org" , "mls.ietf@gmail.com" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , "rmcat-chairs@ietf.org" References: <150899711347.24114.14191696188441903068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <2389dc4c-428d-7927-6914-7a409370fc24@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:19:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:19:30 -0000 Responses below. On 10/26/17 4:01 AM, Ingemar Johansson S wrote: > Hi > And thanks for the review, comments inline marked [IJ] > > /Ingemar > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Adam Roach [mailto:adam@nostrum.com] >> Sent: den 26 oktober 2017 07:52 >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org; Martin Stiemerling >> ; rmcat-chairs@ietf.org; mls.ietf@gmail.com; >> rmcat@ietf.org >> Subject: Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with >> DISCUSS and COMMENT) >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I'm confused about whether the text in this document is intended to form a >> normative description of SCReAM. The document contains the following >> statement: >> >> Note that the pseudo code does not show all >> details for reasons of readability, the reader is encouraged to look >> into the C++ code in [SCReAM-CPP-implementation] for the details. >> >> This effectively states that the cited C++ code forms the normative >> specification of the SCReAM algorithm, and that this document is a non- >> normative companion to help understand the normative code. >> >> If this is the case, then: >> >> - The [SCReAM-CPP-implementation] reference needs to be moved from >> "Informative References" to "Normative References", >> >> - The abstract and introduction need to make it much clearer that the >> normative definition of the SCReAM algorithm is a body of C++ code rather >> than the prose and psuedocode in this document, and >> >> - We need to coordinate with the RFC editor to ensure proper archival of the >> code at [SCReAM-CPP-implementation]. At this time, github.com does not >> meet the standards of archival quality that the RFC series is expected to >> meet. >> >> If the C++ implementation is *not* the normative definition of SCReAM, >> then the psuedocode and definitions in this document need to be complete >> and sufficient to implement the algorithm; and, in particular, it cannot omit >> algorithm details "for reasons of readability." > [IJ] Understand the concern. > The pseudocode is normative as is and the "for reasons of readability" quote is actually note needed. The C++ code reference is that as I personally like to see the real running code in order to fully understand the function, and to be able to do fast experiments. > The C++ code contains optimizations, for instance it is not necessary to re-compute the pacing rate and the congestion window for each received ACK and that reduces complexity at very high bitrates. The code also contains optimizations for how bytes in flight is computed > In addition there is some code to increase the stability for the cases where packets arrive in bursts at the receiving end. This occasionally happens with LTE access and the fix limits how much the congestion window can increase. The fix does not make much difference and is not critical for the function of SCReAM. > Also there is some extra code in the congestion window update function that improves the performance at very low bitrates (less than 100kbps). Again this code is not critical for the function in SCReAM. > > If possible I would like to have a refence the C++ code, with the necessary changes such as removal of "for reasons of readability" and making it more clear that the pseudo code and the draft text constitute a normative specification. It is however not a MUST that the C++ code is referenced to in the draft and it cannot be completely ruled out that parts of the code can change over time, the C++ code has now also gained sufficient traction to live on its own. > > What do you think is the best way forward here ? Thanks for clarifying. Assuming that the only differences between the psuedocode in the draft and the C++ implementation is this small list of optimizations, I think you'll want to replace the text I quote above with something more like: "As mentioned in section 7, calculation of qdelay may benefit from additional optimizations for handling of very high and very low bitrates, and from additional damping to handle periodic packet bursts. Some such optimizations are implemented in [SCReAM-CPP-implementation], but they do not form part of the specification of SCReAM at this time." And then add text to section 7 suggesting additional experimentation with qdelay calculations. Your remaining edits look good to me. Thanks. /a From nobody Thu Oct 26 07:05:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FD513A65C; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:05:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4k7gOEBQaD1V; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F50B1384F5; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.82] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v9QE5lB5024802 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Oct 2017 09:05:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.82] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <6232F8B4-A9B8-4F54-992C-5C7821BBC6DD@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2E9CD7D6-0AF5-480D-A664-BEBC04DF5B8F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.0 \(3445.1.7\)) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 09:05:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org" , "mls.ietf@gmail.com" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , "rmcat-chairs@ietf.org" To: Ingemar Johansson S References: <150896198996.4854.3978820125361547118.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.1.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:05:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2E9CD7D6-0AF5-480D-A664-BEBC04DF5B8F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, thanks for the response! > On Oct 26, 2017, at 2:29 AM, Ingemar Johansson S = wrote: >=20 >> - 4.1.2.3, last paragraph: Ditto for the SHOULD > [IJ] Not sure I am convinced. It order for the loss detection and = congestion control adjustment to work properly, it is important to only = react at most once per RTT, otherwise the bitrate can become reduced too = much. The text says "Still it SHOULD be possible to increase the qdelay target = if the qdelay continues to be high.=E2=80=9D That sounds like a general = statement about the possibility. Is that intended to ask implementations = to _make_ it possible? If so, it would help to clarify the actor and = specific action that the SHOULD applies to. [Otherwise, your responses all look fine.] Thanks! Ben. --Apple-Mail=_2E9CD7D6-0AF5-480D-A664-BEBC04DF5B8F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlnx67oACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A3GCA//YtMYOehw/czewIVV76652OQ/UHh2eZhwvIMccdeNT16zln1zpEoFNTOm kiHWZ+vDa+3i93zen2L8egYTiBb0smAuKwGbgVc2p8B9MDKyC7ZvhyxbsxQfrqy0 07Yt/jONoiLXbCyjcs+hxdJkN4uL3fOOfiKxHvF7/pLQRxwm4C3PiyeDdx9TD5kH BEJET39PTYD/kSl77XQJP5DleGzDy6PgAJQwZ+5A7K4xKNypK8ihWquALpBHqYoM 2jKZTgGv9c4CRjhAGgAZfbwzP8L0hJySduw0akKjmIZsIX6DPugJsD1sv2JTKYFS BX4a51PUUDj1ANj3EWCZIvXs6uPA577MFa+EweAZl1cw/ymFVPl6QayrZlnWts4r 4oVrKchUf+51Yk4TPA7i04r9AWhVuj7YUsz+ZVSbJ2uK07SaCqoiTPP6jqcY8AEZ E3JQN4zguxC2yaL2w29YCYV1Ym2Qk3lTcxXxx4WLcULYIij5jaZTxqW2s2Q2vMnt G4Lh+oYuM4MyaEfBumC7Wlf+adWrnqfXvET+5cuoaa+qzxX5Z3B7qlLqk2s+0weh Qq2CK/L8ufRAPj38vKV/L46+DedyxBGX829HP53Fa5vFnxUcFB8eSBs+kTXgSkEb n4/7qJQHXLa+JUtd5xIT7n9AJcT/Txt1SJZh3S7UKOIg9XkS5IM= =97si -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2E9CD7D6-0AF5-480D-A664-BEBC04DF5B8F-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 11:17:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DFF139504; 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Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:16:47 +0000 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: Ben Campbell CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org" , "mls.ietf@gmail.com" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , "rmcat-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTTczUErtAZZQysU+Xo54M0tm2OKL1uLyggAByswCAAEVioA== Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:16:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150896198996.4854.3978820125361547118.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6232F8B4-A9B8-4F54-992C-5C7821BBC6DD@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <6232F8B4-A9B8-4F54-992C-5C7821BBC6DD@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [83.226.2.146] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB4PR07MB346; 6:PKns2o3e87a5AfwTELc75oCtLZ80Ozq+dRAZbOTzQBeeMjOi1ndkt0XCbF6zQVCfgGrFp3WzIkli84Vbz95QobltV2VHbOKBELTn6FGrr1crLV2go3RPgo765bOuOs4jsJHtXSXBFptI2LNcMahxddYLqgxwyPmGmFvy3u+j9yBngAikK3QjlbBUjxsvn36ByY7IRk/99g8VcpnjSi8GY/JbOI10SRJuh5Pxz5a7Ks6/8/lpp8fpKPkGNscaDim6bRgB4JqeQ90qLJnGqpxvQOhWkmYYmxLUoGPCdjz070bSav+v9qncfoiHHsYG6/PTA4kRSupyh/0QvQbB6HTcJhEFvcN1yIjXoemeS0rzdZc=; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 19:35:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG of the IETF. Title : Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia Authors : Ingemar Johansson Zaheduzzaman Sarker Filename : draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2017-10-26 Abstract: This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as interactive video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a Long Term Evolution (LTE) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 26 12:41:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C0913F5AD; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:41:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SL58VT7l6IaW; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 532A413F5E8; 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Thu, 26 Oct 2017 19:40:54 +0000 Received: from DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d067:33bc:7c46:c8c9]) by DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d067:33bc:7c46:c8c9%13]) with mapi id 15.20.0178.007; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 19:40:54 +0000 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: The IESG , "draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org" , "mls.ietf@gmail.com" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , "rmcat-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTTczUErtAZZQysU+Xo54M0tm2OKL1uLyggAByswCAAEVioIAAFy2g Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 19:40:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150896198996.4854.3978820125361547118.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6232F8B4-A9B8-4F54-992C-5C7821BBC6DD@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [83.226.2.146] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:04:35 +0200 (CEST) To: "Xiaoqing Zhu (xiaoqzhu)" , "rmcat@ietf.org" References: <150663456501.27767.1526687431255447082@ietfa.amsl.com> <1506635454282.84079@cisco.com> From: "Bless, Roland (TM)" Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology Message-ID: <408446c4-9fec-9582-159a-622dedb1d5f6@kit.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:04:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1506635454282.84079@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1509116675.625626399 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-nada-05.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 15:04:40 -0000 Hi, I just read draft-ietf-rmcat-nada-05.txt for the first time and have some (probably dumb) questions (mainly related to the delay-based part): - The draft mentions a "15-tap minimum filter" (p. 12) and a "15-tab minimum filter" (p. 16). One of the seems to contain a type. Moreover, I have no clue what that actually is. Is it simply a minimum filter over the last 15 measured values? - The description in 4.2 states: update baseline delay: d_base = min(d_base, d_fwd) is this where the minimum filter is applied? If so better use min_filtered(d_base, d_fwd) and define what that is. - 4.3 mentions "base delay expiration", but I wasn't able to find a discussion in section 5 about it. - 5.1.1: "All delay estimations are based on sender timestamps with higher granularity than RTP timestamps." I'm not sure. RTP timestamps depend on the sampling clock frequency and this can be quite high, e.g., 8kHz corresponds to 125µs, 90kHz to 11µs. System clock resolution can be in the range of microseconds and sometimes even nanoseconds. So more interesting would be to state what minimum resolution the sender timestamps should have. - 6.3 "that a feedback interval below 250ms will not break up the feedback control loop of NADA congestion control." This is not clear to me. Does a "feedback interval below 250ms" mean a smaller interval and thus more frequent feedback? "feedback below 250 ms" could also mean slower and less frequent feedback. If so, I don't understand why more frequent feedback would "break up the feedback control loop". An unambiguous statement would be better. Regards, Roland From nobody Fri Oct 27 11:55:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95EF113F41B; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:55:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150913051158.22299.4504001911028448869@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:55:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-dt-rmcat-feedback-message-04.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 18:55:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG of the IETF. Title : RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) Feedback for Congestion Control Authors : Zaheduzzaman Sarker Colin Perkins Varun Singh Michael A. Ramalho Filename : draft-dt-rmcat-feedback-message-04.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2017-10-27 Abstract: This document describes a feedback message intended to enable congestion control for interactive real-time traffic. The RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques (RMCAT) Working Group formed a design team to analyze feedback requirements from various congestion control algorithms and to design a generic feedback message to help ensure interoperability across those algorithms. The feedback message is designed for a sender-based congestion control, which means the receiver of the media will send necessary feedback to the sender of the media to perform the congestion control at the sender. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dt-rmcat-feedback-message/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dt-rmcat-feedback-message-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-dt-rmcat-feedback-message-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-dt-rmcat-feedback-message-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 27 12:15:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D7D13F43A for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 12:15:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1hHahx6S7exO for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7EB3137E0B for ; 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Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:35:10 +0000 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: "rmcat@ietf.org" , Zaheduzzaman Sarker , "csp@csperkins.org" , "varun.singh@iki.fi" , "mramalho@cisco.com" Thread-Topic: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-dt-rmcat-feedback-message-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHTT1YSaXFmFQOUm0SG+sOhgwz1TaL8AILg Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:35:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150913051158.22299.4504001911028448869@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150913051158.22299.4504001911028448869@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.92] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VI1PR07MB3264; 6:MxN4QFASkcyj/roDUplUQRID2M3QJn9u2PDGVU3tNcK9TTDL9htnkmlFmVC273lKU8BkkfYrVEpn9X3Ll4QE0S2HOKKMMPt8ko+ZhGRFI3SZjC24ycpD7GGdBo8Kx8CP9lzcv74LutTLoETlDEccrcbGYSarPCjCh77qva1LsuZfuR2FljdxgoiIu/ZFmgINRSxa5/NeHzju6K+pHDjcGjlreVLtbYAJ2XaBEEwRuWBuFXcWPW1aXuKJLzuoinkbn0761W+hOAYLPz12GND1XBQ6+S8OREy66Vl0Kb6W4/BJqit3nWWKqjlGwu9kt/529Y9KxbTLoKuw0piKoUD7ZIKlsdxJgrpVypX9ilJ8iDs=; 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Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:41:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org, Martin Stiemerling , rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, rmcat@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150937447743.3393.5894906541427395759.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:41:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:41:17 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS and comments. From nobody Mon Oct 30 10:53:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276ED970F; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:52:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: rmcat-chairs@ietf.org, rmcat@ietf.org, mls.ietf@gmail.com, ietf@kuehlewind.net, draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc@ietf.org, The IESG , Martin Stiemerling , rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <150938597415.7773.1065462992314829883.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:52:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rmcat] Document Action: 'Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia' to Experimental RFC (draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13.txt) X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:52:54 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Self-Clocked Rate Adaptation for Multimedia' (draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc-13.txt) as Experimental RFC This document is the product of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Mirja Kühlewind and Spencer Dawkins. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-scream-cc/ Technical Summary This memo describes a rate adaptation algorithm for conversational media services such as video. The solution conforms to the packet conservation principle and uses a hybrid loss and delay based congestion control algorithm. The algorithm is evaluated over both simulated Internet bottleneck scenarios as well as in a Long Term Evolution (LTE) system simulator and is shown to achieve both low latency and high video throughput in these scenarios. Working Group Summary The document has been reviewed by the RMCAT WG and there have been no controversial points. Document Quality The SCReAM algorithm has been implemented in the OpenWebRTC project, an open source WebRTC implementation from Ericsson Research. This SCReAM implementation is usable with any WebRTC endpoint using OpenWebRTC. Personnel The document shepherd is Martin Stiemerling (mls.ietf@gmail.com) The responsible Area Director is Mirja Kuehlewind (ietf@kuehlewind.net) RFC Editor Note Please edit the following sentence in section 3.3: OLD: "... it MAY be necessary to implement additional actions, .." NEW: "... a SCReAM sender MAY implement additional actions, .."