From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 3 14:15:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE733A68C0; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:15:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 0E2D43A68B4; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:15:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080703211502.0E2D43A68B4@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] I-D Action:draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Urban WSNs Routing Requirements in Low Power and Lossy Networks Author(s) : M. Dohler, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2008-07-03 The application-specific routing requirements for Urban Low Power and Lossy Networks (U-LLNs) are presented in this document. In the near future, sensing and actuating nodes will be placed outdoors in urban environments so as to improve the people's living conditions as well as to monitor compliance with increasingly strict environmental laws. These field nodes are expected to measure and report a wide gamut of data, such as required in smart metering, waste disposal, meteorological, pollution and allergy reporting applications. The majority of these nodes is expected to communicate wirelessly which - given the limited radio range and the large number of nodes - requires the use of suitable routing protocols. The design of such protocols will be mainly impacted by the limited resources of the nodes (memory, processing power, battery, etc.) and the particularities of the outdoors urban application scenarios. As such, for a wireless ROLL solution to be useful, the protocol(s) ought to be energy-efficient, scalable, and autonomous. This documents aims to specify a set of requirements reflecting these and further U-LLNs tailored characteristics. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-03140503.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --NextPart-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 7 02:11:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B1D03A6912; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:11:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DD228C10A for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 00:03:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fFDDoay18GP7 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 00:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-3.hut.fi (smtp-3.hut.fi [130.233.228.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071FE28C11A for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 00:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (katosiko.hut.fi [130.233.228.115]) by smtp-3.hut.fi (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id m6773voQ007890 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:03:57 +0300 Received: from smtp-3.hut.fi ([130.233.228.93]) by localhost (katosiko.hut.fi [130.233.228.115]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 30208-169-12 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:03:57 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [NON-IPv4] (vipunen.hut.fi [130.233.228.9]) by smtp-3.hut.fi (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id m6772Zm6007449 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:02:36 +0300 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:02:35 +0300 (EEST) From: Jukka MJ Manner To: roll@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <0K3400B5UEGHA0@smtp02.hut-mail> Message-ID: References: <0K3400B5UEGHA0@smtp02.hut-mail> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TKK-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.1.2-hutcc at katosiko.hut.fi X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 02:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Roll] Requirements for SHM X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, We wrote a (very) short draft about structural health monitoring (SHM), a rather important area for future sensor networks, and how we understand the requirements for the routing infrastructure. We tried to highlight the application and the requirements, but also the non-goals. Many of the requirement are similar to the ones already expressed, but some are probably different, and actually quite challenging. Any comments would be appreciated, the draft only takes half a cup of coffee to read. ;) http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manner-roll-shm-requirements-00 Cheers, Jukka _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 7 13:15:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D64653A6B1A; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:15:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 46BF13A6A7D; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:15:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080707201501.46BF13A6A7D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Home Automation Routing Requirement in Low Power and Lossy Networks Author(s) : A. Brandt, P. Affari Filename : draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2008-7-7 This document presents home control and automation application specific requirements for ROuting in Low power and Lossy networks (ROLL). In a modern home, a high number of wireless devices are used for a wide set of purposes. Examples include lighting control, heating control, sensors, leak detectors, healthcare systems and advanced remote controls. Because such devices only cover a limited radio range, multi-hop routing is often required. The aim of this document is to specify the routing requirements for networks comprising such constrained devices in a home network environment. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-7-7130640.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --NextPart-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 7 13:47:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4642E3A6B70; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:47:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BDE23A6B3A for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:47:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.886, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20Ika8748whM for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com (rtp-iport-2.cisco.com [64.102.122.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0163A6B3C for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:47:37 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.30,318,1212364800"; d="scan'208";a="13454648" Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Jul 2008 20:47:41 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m67Klfku000480 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 16:47:41 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m67KlfVq023950 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:47:41 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 7 Jul 2008 16:47:41 -0400 Received: from 10.21.70.179 ([10.21.70.179]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:47:41 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.10.0.080409 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:47:39 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Roll] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt Thread-Index: AcjgcrGQ1ibpzXC5C0CoP3kEBReZOA== In-Reply-To: <20080707201501.46BF13A6A7D@core3.amsl.com> Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2008 20:47:41.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[B3322280:01C8E072] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1733; t=1215463661; x=1216327661; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Roll]=20I-D=20ACTION=3Adraft-ietf-roll -home-routing-reqs-01.txt |Sender:=20 |To:=20; bh=TY7O1JHe8wMBTBOS+pzuZjaAUf4UjTPJKTAVp+iXsrc=; b=Tyy3tz1WQwkL76gGnDBt72G7C/WuUS5zUYdZnBKwETmLIGPlW8hLuHGkmM HRwaatapJaL3bRzZg89US8WpkwUh5N3S/NTgu2vtcaIoYSU3pTJjxTXci9oc zv5/LZdH1e; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Subject: Re: [Roll] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Authors, Could you please summarize the changes for the WG? Thanks. JP. On 7/7/08 10:15 PM, "Internet-Drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Home Automation Routing Requirement in Low Power and Lossy Networks > Author(s) : A. Brandt, P. Affari > Filename : draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt > Pages : 15 > Date : 2008-7-7 > > This document presents home control and automation application > specific requirements for ROuting in Low power and Lossy networks > (ROLL). In a modern home, a high number of wireless devices are used > for a wide set of purposes. Examples include lighting control, > heating control, sensors, leak detectors, healthcare systems and > advanced remote controls. Because such devices only cover a limited radio > range, multi-hop routing is often required. The aim of this > document is to specify the routing requirements for networks > comprising such constrained devices in a home network environment. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-01.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 8 13:43:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 099EB28C32B; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:43:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA133A6AF4 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:43:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xEkPF7rcm5MV for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.229.216]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C0093A67AC for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 28282 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:43:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zeke.ekasystems.com) (tim.winter@ekasystems.com@68.166.148.162 with plain) by smtp102.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:43:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: cUMQA1IVM1m69N1Gk6dfjua5xIIW5EAmgKcFBWwkj4cadtouDCyUOSXo8BH78oJXBQPTHBPIxtBTxVLYYORoTN_fOSLAFVMZAElLFwUX7Gmfc9Ma_uZRsCIpMgjLnJg- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4873D15F.1060505@ekasystems.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:43:11 -0400 From: Tim Winter User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: roll@ietf.org References: <20080703211502.0E2D43A68B4@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20080703211502.0E2D43A68B4@core3.amsl.com> Subject: [Roll] draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Roll WG, There is a new revision of the urban routing requirements draft available: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01.txt Broad changes include: - breaking out the introduction into further subsections - elaborating on the application scenarios - expanding upon the Security Considerations. In addition there have been some minor changes to formatting and tweaks to requirements language. We would appreciate your comments and feedback. Please post them to the list. Regards, -Tim _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 8 16:25:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D706B3A6A0F; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:25:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5943A6A0F for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:25:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eNj9ELMDcAqQ for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853A73A63D3 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x19so1311086pyg.24 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:25:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:organization:to:subject :date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id; bh=ZaYiF9slgeFzXyRoOzhMjAryRFVZYyjValh/a5xbn7s=; b=C3chcVmPsEJwh2urbVivBpCO9Q1uYOM375/xUAVACTY6WuSMs/D7S5FHLXne2Ciu4l wXYL3o/a9qUrifOzgMRmbWjVTaTFLMDnR6F3Wjjb83E0lEl9PpY2nxgA6LNPM0VD5CMz o5Pb6pfioJf2uVVeEowRSemyytFbl+nDBloB0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:organization:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition:message-id; b=GLhxaP0DZAS6soUl9r56Q+dCY3mbU7D0hx3nNpeyiY+l9zY+Tj3uUQk0wBC1w9/n1u S2iruND0IK+s4WCvQ54kB3egXRBogC8FAtGgVyrD9/J8xl0TG9WMMhUsole0z/759bDv 1xjDnOtQvrhJsfPGNz77SKg1Xy1SX10Ddsbj0= Received: by 10.65.192.19 with SMTP id u19mr2547963qbp.55.1215559523478; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tux ( [24.131.109.50]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q16sm2458639qbq.0.2008.07.08.16.25.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Paddock Organization: The Designer-III Company http://www.designer-iii.com/ To: roll@ietf.org Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:25:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <0K3400B5UEGHA0@smtp02.hut-mail> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807081925.21656.bob.paddock@gmail.com> Cc: Jukka MJ Manner Subject: Re: [Roll] Requirements for SHM X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org On Monday 07 July 2008 03:02:35 am Jukka MJ Manner wrote: > We wrote a (very) short draft about structural health monitoring (SHM), a > rather important area for future sensor networks, and how we understand > the requirements for the routing infrastructure. > > We tried to highlight the application and the requirements, but also the > non-goals. Many of the requirement are similar to the ones already > expressed, but some are probably different, and actually quite > challenging. > > Any comments would be appreciated, the draft only takes half a cup of > coffee to read. ;) > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manner-roll-shm-requirements-00 One dish of Yogurt did it for me, don't drink coffee. My first posting to the list, hasn't been anything I thought I could contribute until I read these sections: "We can expect the network to bootstrap itself in matter of hours or even days, rather than seconds. Also, once the network routing has been put in place, the only changes are that some nodes may just die out, and some are replaced, at a very modest frequency. SHM applications do not require extremely large sensor networks. One network might consist of tens up to couple hundred nodes. If larger structures need to be monitored, multiple independent sensor networks could be used." I am one of the co-authors of "A Technology Review of Smart Sensors with Wireless Networks for Applications in Hazardous Work Environments" published by CDC/NIOSH. This paper was written to introduce Senior Management level type people (those that sign the check, not those doing the work) mostly in the Coal Mining industry to issues of Smart Sensors. Download the free paper from here: http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ Coal mines are very large infrastructures, much larger than bridges, with far more stringent requirements. If you want the worst of everything, then design for operation in a Coal Mine. No light, caustic dust, explosive gases, no air, no power, lots of heat etc... Note that Rocks and Coal *absorb* most radio waves. "We can expect the network to bootstrap itself in matter of hours or even days, rather than seconds. " The Holly Grail of a Coal Mine network is to be functional during and after a catastrophic event; ie *BOOM!*. Hours and days are useless in this context. You need to know where everyone is *RIGHT NOW* in a mine that can cover many-many square miles, in 3D space. This 3D space after the event is literally a different world, anything you knew about the network before the event is useless. If anyone has a system that will work here, please let me know. -- http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ http://www.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.unusualresearch.com/ _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 8 19:00:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF5128C0FD; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:00:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 659253A6962; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:00:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080709020001.659253A6962@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] I-D Action:draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Industrial Routing Requirements in Low Power and Lossy Networks Author(s) : D. Networks, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2008-07-08 Wireless, low power field devices enable industrial users to significantly increase the amount of information collected and the number of control points that can be remotely managed. The deployment of these wireless devices will significantly improve the productivity and safety of the plants while increasing the efficiency of the plant workers. For wireless devices to have a significant advantage over wired devices in an industrial environment the wireless network needs to have three qualities: low power, high reliability, and easy installation and maintenance. The aim of this document is to analyze the requirements for the routing protocol used for low power and lossy networks (L2N) in industrial environments. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-08184551.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --NextPart-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 8 22:06:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985B63A69C6; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:06:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996B53A69C6 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:06:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.664, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1T2PfCE0MRXz for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com (rtp-iport-2.cisco.com [64.102.122.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A723A696D for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:06:17 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.30,329,1212364800"; d="scan'208,217";a="13607073" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jul 2008 05:06:28 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6956SSI031137 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:06:28 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6956SCn010463 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:06:28 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:06:28 -0400 Received: from 10.21.124.38 ([10.21.124.38]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:05:55 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.10.0.080409 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:05:53 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Roll] Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in LLNs Thread-Index: AcjhXQY/HcSOmVNgSoK0oUnvj6Y8fAAJG/yX In-Reply-To: <56db301c8e166$d9dbbeb0$e72a0693@oasys.kt.co.kr> Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2008 05:06:28.0451 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B523330:01C8E181] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6383; t=1215579988; x=1216443988; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20FW=3A=20[Roll]=20Routing=20Metrics=20used=20for =20Path=20Calculation=20in=20LLNs |Sender:=20 |To:=20; bh=CQNr7RFrolIGHqOC4f9nkWNHk9mQRhF34NF3XxIp1BU=; b=KuWP1CpBb9XnX4glFd4fkE2fvO5BPLKS4uxaDUSvg2PRZuhtQkA5kRyqor X5QTb5dwm7AWHTltAmFmKzdE5CUlCuNdcV+l/9Lom6kMA2VdTX3Z7x1ANnvT otKsgfVeW2; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] FW: Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in LLNs X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0162188311==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0162188311== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3298431953_27780381" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3298431953_27780381 Content-type: text/plain; charset="EUC-KR" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reforwarding for Kim who has been experiencing some issues with the mailer (being investigated). JP. ------ Forwarded Message From: "=B1=E8=B9=CC=C1=A1[USN=BF=AC=B1=B8=B4=E3=B4=E7]" Reply-To: "=B1=E8=B9=CC=C1=A1[USN=BF=AC=B1=B8=B4=E3=B4=E7]" Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 10:55:23 +0900 To: JP Vasseur Subject: FW: [Roll] Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in LLNs =20 -----=BF=F8=BA=BB =B8=DE=BD=C3=C1=F6----- =BA=B8=B3=BD =BB=E7=B6=F7: "=B1=E8=B9=CC=C1=A1[USN=BF=AC=B1=B8=B4=E3=B4=E7]" =BA=B8=B3=BD =B3=AF=C2=A5: 2008-07-09 =BF=C0=C0=FC 9:45:03 =B9=DE=B4=C2 =BB=E7=B6=F7: "roll@ietf.org" =C2=FC=C1=B6:=20 =C1=A6=B8=F1: [Roll] Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in LLNs =20 Hello ROLL members, We submitted a new version of I-D as follows and any feedback will be appreciated. The document is there: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-mjkim-roll-routing-metrics-00.txt Filename: draft-mjkim-roll-routing-metrics Revision: 00 Title: Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in Low Power and Lossy Networks Authors: Mijeom Kim, JP Vasseur, Hakjin Chong Creation_date: 2008-07-04 Number_of_pages: 14 Abstract: This document specifies routing metrics used in path calculation for Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks (ROLL). Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) have unique characteristics compared with traditional wired networks or even with similar ones such as mobile ad-hoc networks as indicated in several application-specific requirements documents. Since typical IGP routing metrics such as hop counts or link metrics are not sufficient for LLNs, this document specifies a new set of required link and node metrics suitable to LLNs. Thank you, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - Kim, Mijeom, Ph. D, P.E. Senior Researcher USN Service Division Future Technology Laboratory, KT, South Korea Tel. +82-2-526-6063 Cell. +82-10-9883-4951 E-mail: mjkim@kt.com, mijeom@gmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - =20 ------ End of Forwarded Message --B_3298431953_27780381 Content-type: text/html; charset="EUC-KR" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable FW: [Roll] Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in LLNs Reforwarding for Kim who has been experiencing some issues with the mailer= (being investigated).

JP.
------ Forwarded Message
From: "=B1=E8=B9=CC=C1=A1[USN=BF=AC=B1=B8=B4=E3=B4=E7]" <mjk= im@kt.com>
Reply-To: "=B1=E8=B9=CC=C1=A1[USN=BF=AC=B1=B8=B4=E3=B4=E7]" <mjkim@kt.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 10:55:23 +0900
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: FW: [Roll] Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in LLN= s

-----=BF=F8=BA=BB =B8=DE=BD=C3=C1=F6-----
=BA=B8=B3=BD =BB=E7=B6=F7: "=B1=E8=B9=CC=C1=A1[USN=BF=AC=B1=B8=B4=E3=B4=E7]" <mjkim@kt.com>
=BA=B8=B3=BD =B3=AF=C2=A5: 2008-07-09 =BF=C0=C0=FC 9:45:03
=B9=DE=B4=C2 =BB=E7=B6=F7: "roll@ietf.org" <= ;roll@ietf.org>
=C2=FC=C1=B6:
=C1=A6=B8=F1: [Roll] Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in LLNs

 

Hello ROLL members,

We submitted a new version of I-D as follows and any feedback will be appre= ciated.

The document is there: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-mjkim-roll-routing-= metrics-00.txt

Filename:          draft-mjkim= -roll-routing-metrics
Revision:           00 Title:            &n= bsp;     Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation = in Low Power and Lossy Networks

Authors:            = Mijeom Kim, JP Vasseur, Hakjin Chong
Creation_date:   2008-07-04
Number_of_pages: 14

Abstract:
This document specifies routing metrics used in path calculation for
Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks (ROLL).  Low power and
Lossy Networks (LLNs) have unique characteristics compared with
traditional wired networks or even with similar ones such as mobile
ad-hoc networks as indicated in several application-specific
requirements documents.  Since typical IGP routing metrics such as
hop counts or link metrics are not sufficient for LLNs, this document
specifies a new set of required link and node metrics suitable to
LLNs.


Thank you,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --

Kim, Mijeom, Ph. D, P.E.
Senior Researcher
USN Service Division
Future Technology Laboratory, KT, South Korea
Tel. +82-2-526-6063
Cell. +82-10-9883-4951
E-mail: mjkim@kt.com, mijeom@gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
 







------ End of Forwarded Message
 --B_3298431953_27780381-- --===============0162188311== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============0162188311==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 9 23:49:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2A33A68AD; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:49:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C0193A687C for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:49:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id INhey5wZ7fXT for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-1.hut.fi (smtp-1.hut.fi [130.233.228.91]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689923A68AD for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (katosiko.hut.fi [130.233.228.115]) by smtp-1.hut.fi (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id m6A6ngJe031520; Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:49:42 +0300 Received: from smtp-1.hut.fi ([130.233.228.91]) by localhost (katosiko.hut.fi [130.233.228.115]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 00524-306-39; Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:49:42 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [NON-IPv4] (vipunen.hut.fi [130.233.228.9]) by smtp-1.hut.fi (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id m6A6lAbN030253; Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:47:10 +0300 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:47:10 +0300 (EEST) From: Jukka MJ Manner To: Bob Paddock In-Reply-To: <0K3Q00H798JB84@smtp01.hut-mail> Message-ID: References: <0K3400B5UEGHA0@smtp02.hut-mail> <0K3Q00H798JB84@smtp01.hut-mail> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TKK-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.1.2-hutcc at katosiko.hut.fi Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] Requirements for SHM X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Hi Bob, Thanks for the comments. Regarding the bootstraping, I realize our text is misleading. Our point was that the _initial_ bootstraping phase, i.e., when you set up the network for the first time, can take a relatively long time. This is the phase when the nodes figure out the routing (set up the topology and routes), and the sensors, possible data fusion points, and sinks find each other out. Ultimately, we would like to have a network that is easy to set up: a service guy just puts nodes here and there, at some predefined locations, and once online, the nodes automatically figure out where they are, where the sinks are, etc. Once the network is running, obviously any changes in the network should be handled instantaneously, which I believe was your primary concern. Cheers, Jukka On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Bob Paddock wrote: > On Monday 07 July 2008 03:02:35 am Jukka MJ Manner wrote: > >> We wrote a (very) short draft about structural health monitoring (SHM), a >> rather important area for future sensor networks, and how we understand >> the requirements for the routing infrastructure. >> >> We tried to highlight the application and the requirements, but also the >> non-goals. Many of the requirement are similar to the ones already >> expressed, but some are probably different, and actually quite >> challenging. >> >> Any comments would be appreciated, the draft only takes half a cup of >> coffee to read. ;) > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manner-roll-shm-requirements-00 > > One dish of Yogurt did it for me, don't drink coffee. My first posting > to the list, hasn't been anything I thought I could contribute until > I read these sections: > > "We can expect the network to bootstrap itself in > matter of hours or even days, rather than seconds. Also, once the > network routing has been put in place, the only changes are that some > nodes may just die out, and some are replaced, at a very modest > frequency. > > SHM applications do not require extremely large sensor networks. One > network might consist of tens up to couple hundred nodes. If larger > structures need to be monitored, multiple independent sensor networks > could be used." > > I am one of the co-authors of "A Technology Review of Smart Sensors with > Wireless Networks for Applications in Hazardous Work Environments" > published by CDC/NIOSH. This paper was written to introduce Senior Management > level type people (those that sign the check, not those doing the work) mostly > in the Coal Mining industry to issues of Smart Sensors. Download the free > paper from here: > > http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ > > Coal mines are very large infrastructures, much larger than bridges, with far > more stringent requirements. If you want the worst of everything, then > design for operation in a Coal Mine. No light, caustic dust, explosive gases, > no air, no power, lots of heat etc... Note that Rocks and Coal *absorb* most > radio waves. > > "We can expect the network to bootstrap itself in > matter of hours or even days, rather than seconds. " > > The Holly Grail of a Coal Mine network is to be functional during and after > a catastrophic event; ie *BOOM!*. Hours and days are useless in this context. > You need to know where everyone is *RIGHT NOW* in a mine that can cover > many-many square miles, in 3D space. > > This 3D space after the event is literally a different world, anything you > knew about the network before the event is useless. > > If anyone has a system that will work here, please let me know. > > > _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jul 12 11:36:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE25D3A6BB3; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:36:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2946E3A6BB3 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:36:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-6V0EVy4l8M for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway0.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (gateway0.EECS.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.60.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B143A6A5E for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.217.57.142] (142.sub-75-217-57.myvzw.com [75.217.57.142]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway0.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.14.3/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m6CIaoRW017524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4878FA0C.8050902@eecs.berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:38:04 -0700 From: Kris Pister User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Paddock References: <0K3400B5UEGHA0@smtp02.hut-mail> <200807081925.21656.bob.paddock@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200807081925.21656.bob.paddock@gmail.com> Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] Requirements for SHM X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org It's great to have the non-goals in there as well. Tolerance of long network formation times reduces the overall power requirements for most (all?) duty-cycled DLL discovery algorithms. >> The Holly Grail of a Coal Mine network [...] >> If you want the worst of everything, then design for operation >> in a Coal Mine. No light, caustic dust, explosive gases, >> no air, no power, lots of heat etc Sounds a lot like Industrial ! >> If anyone has a system that will work here, please let me know. We've done several deployments in coal and other mines. Worry not! Both 2.4GHz and 900MHz networks work just fine, and build in minutes not hours. ksjp Bob Paddock wrote: > On Monday 07 July 2008 03:02:35 am Jukka MJ Manner wrote: > > >> We wrote a (very) short draft about structural health monitoring (SHM), a >> rather important area for future sensor networks, and how we understand >> the requirements for the routing infrastructure. >> >> We tried to highlight the application and the requirements, but also the >> non-goals. Many of the requirement are similar to the ones already >> expressed, but some are probably different, and actually quite >> challenging. >> >> Any comments would be appreciated, the draft only takes half a cup of >> coffee to read. ;) >> > > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manner-roll-shm-requirements-00 >> > > One dish of Yogurt did it for me, don't drink coffee. My first posting > to the list, hasn't been anything I thought I could contribute until > I read these sections: > > "We can expect the network to bootstrap itself in > matter of hours or even days, rather than seconds. Also, once the > network routing has been put in place, the only changes are that some > nodes may just die out, and some are replaced, at a very modest > frequency. > > SHM applications do not require extremely large sensor networks. One > network might consist of tens up to couple hundred nodes. If larger > structures need to be monitored, multiple independent sensor networks > could be used." > > I am one of the co-authors of "A Technology Review of Smart Sensors with > Wireless Networks for Applications in Hazardous Work Environments" > published by CDC/NIOSH. This paper was written to introduce Senior Management > level type people (those that sign the check, not those doing the work) mostly > in the Coal Mining industry to issues of Smart Sensors. Download the free > paper from here: > > http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ > > Coal mines are very large infrastructures, much larger than bridges, with far > more stringent requirements. If you want the worst of everything, then > design for operation in a Coal Mine. No light, caustic dust, explosive gases, > no air, no power, lots of heat etc... Note that Rocks and Coal *absorb* most > radio waves. > > "We can expect the network to bootstrap itself in > matter of hours or even days, rather than seconds. " > > The Holly Grail of a Coal Mine network is to be functional during and after > a catastrophic event; ie *BOOM!*. Hours and days are useless in this context. > You need to know where everyone is *RIGHT NOW* in a mine that can cover > many-many square miles, in 3D space. > > This 3D space after the event is literally a different world, anything you > knew about the network before the event is useless. > > If anyone has a system that will work here, please let me know. > > > _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 14 04:30:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B9A28C278; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:30:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id A953928C135; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080714113001.A953928C135@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] I-D Action:draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Home Automation Routing Requirement in Low Power and Lossy Networks Author(s) : A. Brandt, G. Porcu Filename : draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2008-07-14 This document presents home control and automation application specific requirements for ROuting in Low power and Lossy networks (ROLL). In a modern home, a high number of wireless devices are used for a wide set of purposes. Examples include lighting control, heating control, sensors, leak detectors, healthcare systems and advanced remote controls. Because such devices only cover a limited radio range, multi-hop routing is often required. The aim of this document is to specify the routing requirements for networks comprising such constrained devices in a home network environment. Requirements Language The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119 [RFC2119]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-14042457.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --NextPart-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 14 04:39:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4067D3A6B59; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:39:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62D63A6A26 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:39:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.772 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.772 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PqzfMZ8Nknu6 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.zen-sys.com (mail.zen-sys.com [195.215.56.170]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60943A6B19 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:39:06 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:39:31 +0200 Message-ID: <6D9687E95918C04A8B30A7D6DA805A3EFC80BD@zensys17.zensys.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Changelog for draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02 and -01 Thread-Index: Acjlpkfwz1uVeFhPTompqRUNU+rhTA== From: "Jakob Buron" To: Cc: Porcu Giorgio Subject: [Roll] Changelog for draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02 and -01 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Dear WG, a new revision 02 of the home control I-D has been posted at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02 .txt Summmary of the changes made in revision 01 and 02: * Duty cycle of battery powered devices described. * Alarm system use case elaborated. * Use case for stopping appliances in response to dynamic power pricing added. * Requirements for routing inclusion request from joining nodes added. * Groupcast has been defined and MUST'ed. * Reverted to "constraint-based routing" term following discussion on ML. * Elaborated required routing strategies in case of a non-responsive node. * Zero-configuration defined. * Isolating misbehaving node is required, avoiding global impact has been dropped. * Traffic pattern description elaborated. * Security considerations added. * Acknowledgments added. * Reference to expired I-D removed. Looking forward to discussing this in Dublin! Best regards, Jakob _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 15 10:42:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD8228C10B; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3A528C129 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:42:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1NiVmTwH8ygg for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs-smtp-3.Stanford.EDU (cs-smtp-3.Stanford.EDU [171.64.64.27]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40E33A6B27 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dnab42238d.stanford.edu ([171.66.35.141]) by cs-smtp-3.Stanford.EDU with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIoY5-0003DQ-GX for roll@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:42:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Philip Levis To: roll@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:42:49 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-Scan-Signature: 9dddbef7dbf47a29383c7a3c8e5dce6e Subject: [Roll] draft-levis-roll-protocols-survey-01 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; DelSp="yes" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Rock and ROLLers, A new revision -01 of the protocol survey draft has been posted: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-levis-roll-protocols-survey-01.txt As the document was significantly overhauled based on comments at the last IETF, I'd rather summarize the current structure than give a change log. The most significant change is to eschew the large table of big-O notation costs for a table that provides a simple assessment of protocols in terms of five important criteria. The basis of these assessments is still grounded in a precise formulation of ROLL requirements, but the document now focuses on the conclusions, rather than the path to them. We derived the criteria by examining the application drafts. Comments and feedback are of course welcome. Hope to see you at IETF 72... Phil _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 15 14:02:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 593D83A67E9; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:02:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55FFD3A6863 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:02:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.831 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.831 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.430, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wH3u6+r39CyV for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usstuh502.johnsondiversey.com (mail3.johnsondiversey.com [208.251.229.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 802053A6AAF for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: david.bruemmer@johnsondiversey.com To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:01:32 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on USSTUH502/SVR/CMI(Release 7.0.3FP1|February 24, 2008) at 07/15/2008 16:01:45 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Roll] David Bruemmer is out of the office. X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org I will be out of the office starting 07/15/2008 and will not return until 07/16/2008. I will respond to your message as soon as possible. _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 17 00:27:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671323A6AAC; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:27:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2EAD3A6AAC for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:27:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.058 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.058 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lPijqHmUrj4s for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6F33A6A84 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:27:01 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,202,1215388800"; d="scan'208,217";a="14560135" Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jul 2008 07:27:30 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6H7RUGJ005738 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 03:27:30 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6H7RUoE022271 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:27:30 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 Jul 2008 03:27:30 -0400 Received: from 10.21.124.154 ([10.21.124.154]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:27:30 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.10.0.080409 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:27:27 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Please READ and COMMENT Thread-Index: Acjn3pBQ0gUP4RswuU2oDFSoJCzXbA== Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2008 07:27:30.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[9230D950:01C8E7DE] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4422; t=1216279650; x=1217143650; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Please=20READ=20and=20COMMENT |Sender:=20 |To:=20; bh=XjiSccP5FRxpVBPAxeGpxXO7cBDgqOvtvVE7bUhPvMc=; b=T4a2LdXf2/G1ooPJM5e2uXkhuJHESZdt4UDbA1sPsu+CQtES+gRb1ZDNMo 2g/mpk1tiALflb0gXPpYUgDbNwk4ZNYBOJ38NN/06D5JChho4SPRhHrxdfbe 0XW3JFFUCE; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] Please READ and COMMENT X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1792618321==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============1792618321== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3299131649_51052823" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3299131649_51052823 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear WG, As you know, it is key to complete our Milestones related to the requirements documents and great progress has been made on the following three WG documents: 1. draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01 (just posted) 2. draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01 (just posted) 3. draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02 Since the documents are getting fairly stable and have addressed a good amount of comments received so far, please take the time to read and comment. Furthermore, we wanted to inform you that Jerry and Nicolas have just poste= d a new document on the routing requirements for Building Automation: draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-reqs-00 I leave Jerry introduce his document on the Mailing List, just a few comments: * This document is about =B3building automation=B2 thus addressing the followin= g WG item:=20 Jul 2008 Submit Routing requirements for Building applications to the IESG to be considered as an Informational RFC. The draft name should be changed to draft-martocci-roll-building-routing-reqs-00 but this is a minor issue. * Please read, lots of excellent information. * David and I will make our pass since the document goes beyond the scope o= f routing and requires some adjustment. Thanks. JP. --B_3299131649_51052823 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please READ and COMMENT Dear WG,

As you know, it is key to complete our Milestones related to the requiremen= ts documents and great progress has been made on the following three WG docu= ments:
  1. draft-ietf-roll-urban-routing-reqs-01 (just posted)
  2. <= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01 (just post= ed)
  3. <= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs-02
=
Since the documents are getting fairly stable and = have addressed a good amount of comments received so far, please take the ti= me to read and comment.

Furthermore, we wanted to inform you that Jerry and Nicolas have just poste= d a new document on the routing requirements for Building Automation: draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-reqs-00

I leave Jerry introduce his document on the Mailing L= ist, just a few comments:

* This document is about “building automation” thus addressing = the following WG item:
Jul 2008  Submit Routing requirements for Building a= pplications to the IESG to be considered as an Informational RFC.

The draft name should be changed to draft-martocci-roll-bui= lding-routing-reqs-00 but this is a minor issue.

* Please read, lots of excellent information.

* David and I will make our pass since the document goes beyond the scope o= f routing and requires some adjustment.

Thanks.

JP.
 --B_3299131649_51052823-- --===============1792618321== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1792618321==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 17 05:29:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654BB3A69C2; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 05:29:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590C73A69DD for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 05:29:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.07 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.07 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.132, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lxTIFF7CS9VF for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B053A682F for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 05:29:52 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,203,1215388800"; d="scan'208,217";a="66459876" Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jul 2008 12:27:50 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6HCRn8C002288 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 05:27:49 -0700 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6HCRn76025691 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:27:49 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:27:49 -0400 Received: from 10.21.124.154 ([10.21.124.154]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:27:49 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.10.0.080409 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:27:47 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Updated (fully packed) agenda for the ROLL meeting in Dublin Thread-Index: AcjoCIUSl+V75kDf8kmTc6tupdh8sg== Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2008 12:27:49.0334 (UTC) FILETIME=[86764760:01C8E808] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=762; t=1216297669; x=1217161669; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Updated=20(fully=20packed)=20agenda=20for=20the =20ROLL=20meeting=20in=20Dublin |Sender:=20; bh=Qc4NoD7U2Mu81oQuaKbmTKGqeLqZ0tWUFg++NbDzJCA=; b=t70cpBbIrI0Cv/5OMX1B7zFqM0bAEj/qjA895gQCFuPdGncmwf54mHUH93 OL5ii6sJFMAv1NBAHQJhIvHc3KiZDGbqejWMfE9wOFZ/779GvTdIdnc9gjT0 johVIcBxfJ; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] Updated (fully packed) agenda for the ROLL meeting in Dublin X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1676695516==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============1676695516== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3299149668_52147153" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3299149668_52147153 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt --B_3299149668_52147153 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Updated (fully packed) agenda for the ROLL meeting in Dublin http://www= .ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt --B_3299149668_52147153-- --===============1676695516== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1676695516==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 18 00:25:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967443A683C; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:25:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DD33A683B for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:25:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.156 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.156 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.442, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r-fCCLWrF6Oc for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.190]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 167623A67FD for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a6so249550tib.25 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:26:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=c9FHPS9K2xYwpiFUsMsNQjTR4vPo2Kq8XwYn3dXSWL8=; b=s9jgOtaTk+UJ96d48Cs6161b7TGO8N3Es4dKsaHzXwGQhizURcyUyywvjN0rdj44YX Ck1QbDfCGLQRFherow5RuFXIdpVA0QKD/ZeOdilE5wnZi0nXJJOanoDIHrHPHmx5Hq+e T/5ZPZFXRtinsXcx6o8/014WDq21PWcA5dqW4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=aIiXzAqoXVPivt1gxLqzni8hKLhzvxLl/jCEcJcuARGPa3M1jMu7rrcYbYDVkJL1OT G8F8nCLtCb5405GffbAcvjyMykOXuPZTE+Pg6Gt0hyr0HUNMJP7bY4IF+o46QP9RNPHU J9HJwvDyQ+DTnvZsIbNmf5AKfCJOhu+JqYBEE= Received: by 10.110.46.14 with SMTP id t14mr2341576tit.22.1216365964909; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.110.41.3 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:26:04 +0900 From: "MiJeom Kim" To: roll@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Roll] Requests for comments on the routing metric documents X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1066356017==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org --===============1066356017== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_91511_5198418.1216365964875" ------=_Part_91511_5198418.1216365964875 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello ROLL members, We submitted a new version of I-D as follows. It would be very appreciated to have some comments from you. *The document is there: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-mjkim-roll-routing-metrics-00.txt * Filename: draft-mjkim-roll-routing-metrics Revision: 00 Title: Routing Metrics used for Path Calculation in Low Power and Lossy Networks Authors: Mijeom Kim, JP Vasseur, Hakjin Chong Creation_date: 2008-07-04 Number_of_pages: 14 Abstract: This document specifies routing metrics used in path calculation for Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks (ROLL). Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) have unique characteristics compared with traditional wired networks or even with similar ones such as mobile ad-hoc networks as indicated in several application-specific requirements documents. Since typical IGP routing metrics such as hop counts or link metrics are not sufficient for LLNs, this document specifies a new set of required link and node metrics suitable to LLNs. Thank you, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kim, Mijeom, Ph. D, P.E. Senior Researcher USN Service Division Future Technology Laboratory, KT, South Korea Tel. +82-2-526-6063 Cell. +82-10-9883-4951 E-mail: mjkim@kt.com , mijeom@gmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_Part_91511_5198418.1216365964875 Content-Type: text/html; charset=EUC-KR Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline PGRpdj48YnI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0isby4siIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+SGVsbG8gUk9MTCBtZW1iZXJzLDxi cj48YnI+V2Ugc3VibWl0dGVkIGEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1EIGFzIGZvbGxvd3MuPC9mb250 PjwvZGl2Pgo8ZGl2Pjxmb250IGZhY2U9IrG8uLIiIHNpemU9IjIiPkl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHZlcnkm bmJzcDthcHByZWNpYXRlZCB0byBoYXZlIHNvbWUmbmJzcDtjb21tZW50cyZuYnNwO2Zyb20geW91 LiA8YnI+PGJyPjwvZm9udD48Yj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSKxvLiyIiBzaXplPSIyIj5UaGUgZG9jdW1l bnQgaXMgdGhlcmU6IDwvZm9udD48YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaWQvZHJh ZnQtbWpraW0tcm9sbC1yb3V0aW5nLW1ldHJpY3MtMDAudHh0IiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+PGZv bnQgZmFjZT0isby4siIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+aHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2lkL2RyYWZ0LW1q a2ltLXJvbGwtcm91dGluZy1tZXRyaWNzLTAwLnR4dDwvZm9udD48L2E+PGJyPgo8L2I+PGJyPjxm b250IGZhY2U9IrG8uLIiIHNpemU9IjIiPkZpbGVuYW1lOiAmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJz cDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDtkcmFmdC1tamtpbS1yb2xsLXJvdXRpbmct bWV0cmljczxicj5SZXZpc2lvbjogJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7 Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7MDA8YnI+VGl0bGU6ICZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZu YnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNw OyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwO1JvdXRpbmcgTWV0cmljcyB1c2VkIGZvciBQYXRoIENh bGN1bGF0aW9uIGluIExvdyBQb3dlciBhbmQgTG9zc3kgTmV0d29ya3M8YnI+PGJyPkF1dGhvcnM6 ICZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZu YnNwOyZuYnNwO01pamVvbSBLaW0sIEpQIFZhc3NldXIsIEhha2ppbiBDaG9uZzxicj4KQ3JlYXRp b25fZGF0ZTogJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7MjAwOC0wNy0wNDxicj5OdW1iZXJfb2ZfcGFnZXM6IDE0PGJy Pjxicj5BYnN0cmFjdDo8YnI+VGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBzcGVjaWZpZXMgcm91dGluZyBtZXRyaWNz IHVzZWQgaW4gcGF0aCBjYWxjdWxhdGlvbiBmb3I8YnI+Um91dGluZyBPdmVyIExvdyBwb3dlciBh bmQgTG9zc3kgbmV0d29ya3MgKFJPTEwpLiAmbmJzcDtMb3cgcG93ZXIgYW5kPGJyPkxvc3N5IE5l dHdvcmtzIChMTE5zKSBoYXZlIHVuaXF1ZSBjaGFyYWN0ZXJpc3RpY3MgY29tcGFyZWQgd2l0aDxi cj4KdHJhZGl0aW9uYWwgd2lyZWQgbmV0d29ya3Mgb3IgZXZlbiB3aXRoIHNpbWlsYXIgb25lcyBz dWNoIGFzIG1vYmlsZTxicj5hZC1ob2MgbmV0d29ya3MgYXMgaW5kaWNhdGVkIGluIHNldmVyYWwg YXBwbGljYXRpb24tc3BlY2lmaWM8YnI+cmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGRvY3VtZW50cy4gJm5ic3A7U2lu Y2UgdHlwaWNhbCBJR1Agcm91dGluZyBtZXRyaWNzIHN1Y2ggYXM8YnI+aG9wIGNvdW50cyBvciBs aW5rIG1ldHJpY3MgYXJlIG5vdCBzdWZmaWNpZW50IGZvciBMTE5zLCB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50PGJy PgpzcGVjaWZpZXMgYSBuZXcgc2V0IG9mIHJlcXVpcmVkIGxpbmsgYW5kIG5vZGUgbWV0cmljcyBz dWl0YWJsZSB0bzxicj5MTE5zLjxicj48YnI+PGJyPlRoYW5rIHlvdSw8YnI+PGJyPi0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPGJyPjxicj5LaW0sIE1pamVvbSwgUGguIEQsIFAuRS48YnI+U2VuaW9yIFJl c2VhcmNoZXI8YnI+ClVTTiBTZXJ2aWNlIERpdmlzaW9uPGJyPkZ1dHVyZSBUZWNobm9sb2d5IExh Ym9yYXRvcnksIEtULCBTb3V0aCBLb3JlYSA8YnI+VGVsLiArODItMi01MjYtNjA2Mzxicj5DZWxs LiArODItMTAtOTg4My00OTUxPGJyPkUtbWFpbDogPC9mb250PjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9vYXN5 cy5rdC5jby5rci9lb2ZmaWNlL09XQS9FbWFpbC9tamtpbUBrdC5jb20iIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5r Ij48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSKxvLiyIiBzaXplPSIyIj5tamtpbUBrdC5jb208L2ZvbnQ+PC9hPjxmb250 IGZhY2U9IrG8uLIiIHNpemU9IjIiPiwgPC9mb250PjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9vYXN5cy5rdC5j by5rci9lb2ZmaWNlL09XQS9FbWFpbC9taWplb21AZ21haWwuY29tIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+ PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0isby4siIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+bWlqZW9tQGdtYWlsLmNvbTwvZm9udD48L2E+PGJy Pgo8Zm9udCBmYWNlPSKxvLiyIiBzaXplPSIyIj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTwvZm9udD48 L2Rpdj4K ------=_Part_91511_5198418.1216365964875-- --===============1066356017== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1066356017==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jul 20 02:13:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1C53A684C; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:13:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524013A68F2 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:13:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.122, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ajZofKfM2V3t for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A7603A6805 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:13:33 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,218,1215388800"; d="scan'208,217";a="14819310" Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2008 09:14:05 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6K9E5Zt011366 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:14:05 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6K9E5bP008082 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:14:05 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:14:05 -0400 Received: from 10.61.80.115 ([10.61.80.115]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:14:00 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.11.0.080522 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:13:59 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: ROLL WG Meeting in Dublin: Agenda and Slide Thread-Index: AcjqSPF7VoLaDwiMvUed+HiLrWfEIw== Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2008 09:14:05.0616 (UTC) FILETIME=[F56CEB00:01C8EA48] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1107; t=1216545245; x=1217409245; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20ROLL=20WG=20Meeting=20in=20Dublin=3A=20Agenda=2 0and=20Slide |Sender:=20 |To:=20; bh=CVjEX+Gj26EckK9BQ52IvzME3HzmEFidYms19tNV3DI=; b=bKS0EwKhoteJ5JmkRGrCxUoTZ2ZouhNLGyCNBoli5tdRtJU9bdYSZs2d9L 25RN8Q8QpdJlMxQ80CY/NeNgHdyVjRmcHxjtUOVjCdq0Tc/gveDychudVMZ9 G69jrI+iVG; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] ROLL WG Meeting in Dublin: Agenda and Slide X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0478223906==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0478223906== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3299397240_55051462" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3299397240_55051462 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear WG, Please find the final (fully packed) agenda the ROLL WG meeting: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt If you have a slot, please send us the slide by July 24 5pm PST. Thanks. JP. --B_3299397240_55051462 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ROLL WG Meeting in Dublin: Agenda and Slide Dear WG,

Please find the final (fully packed) agenda the ROLL WG meeting: http://www.ietf.org/pr= oceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt

If you have a slot, please send us the slide by July 24 5pm PST.

Thanks.

JP. --B_3299397240_55051462-- --===============0478223906== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============0478223906==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 21 05:33:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22A328C0EB; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:33:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E0428C0EE for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:33:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.887, BAYES_50=0.001, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iw8fxTq7gRJl for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3153E28C0E7 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:33:24 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,223,1215388800"; d="jpg'145?scan'145,208,217,145";a="14928479" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Jul 2008 12:33:56 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6LCXuPr009883 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:33:56 +0200 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6LCXuoV028403 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:33:56 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-337.cisco.com ([144.254.231.82]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:33:55 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:33:13 +0200 Message-ID: <7892795E1A87F04CADFCCF41FADD00FC05FC8C1C@xmb-ams-337.emea.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01 Thread-Index: AcjrLfE96unJywEqT/KSIrDIAKuDpA== From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2008 12:33:55.0902 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A9B1DE0:01C8EB2E] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=17682; t=1216643636; x=1217507636; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=pthubert@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Pascal=20Thubert=20(pthubert)=22=20 |Subject:=20http=3A//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-in dus-routing-reqs-01 |Sender:=20; bh=WfoivtzkIA28Iuj4obIt05EjbQWevudS11P4Z2j9RnQ=; b=w38euYtYAUmpaqfMp5fdD/ygVjLAi69ICbr+eImqlbwQVLsge5VF0QmKn5 /ulfnUwBENgXAc9rwaLdEr+gCKbLbZ4CctUMQu6afgiG0IHPfslA1OiYxGJ+ J5nZwdGjbO; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=pthubert@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-01 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0621398493==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0621398493== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8EB2E.0A93A192" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8EB2E.0A93A192 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C8EB2E.0A93A192" ------_=_NextPart_002_01C8EB2E.0A93A192 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi ROLL, =20 We published the update 01 of the industrial draft a week ago or so. =20 We have added text from the new authors Tom and Sicco. In particular we elaborate more on: =20 - commonalities between discrete and process - the role of the backbone (section 2.2)=20 - the physical topology and the logical topology (section 2.2) =20 - reliability (section 4)=20 - and manageability requirements (section 9) =20 - broadcast, multicast (section 6) - and mobility services (section 8) =20 Enjoy! =20 =20 =20 =20 Pascal Thubert IP Engineering TC pthubert@cisco.com =20 Phone :+33 497 23 26 34 Mobile :+33 619 98 29 85 Cisco Systems Village d'Entreprises Green Side bat. T3=20 400, Avenue Roumanille 06410 Biot - Sophia Antipolis =20 France www.cisco.com/global/FR/ =20 This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. =20 ------_=_NextPart_002_01C8EB2E.0A93A192 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi ROLL,

 

We published the update 01 of the industrial draft a = week ago or so.

 

We have added text from the new authors Tom and = Sicco. In particular we elaborate more on:

 

-          commonalities between = discrete and process

-          the role of the backbone =  (section 2.2)

-          the physical topology and = the logical topology (section 2.2)

 

-          reliability (section 4) =

-          and manageability = requirements (section 9)

 

-          broadcast, multicast = (section 6)

-          and mobility services = (section 8)

 

Enjoy!

 

 

 

Pascal Thubert
IP = Engineering TC

pthubert@cisco.com
Phone :+33 497 23 26 34
Mobile :+33 619 98 29 85

  = Cisco = Systems
  Village d'Entreprises Green Side bat. T3
  400, Avenue Roumanille
  06410 Biot - Sophia Antipolis 
  France
  www.cisco.com/global/FR/=

This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure = by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient = (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this = message.


 

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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============0621398493==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 21 14:24:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33B13A694B; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:24:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504E93A6ADC for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:09:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hKnN4njkxXoh for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psmtp.com (exprod8ob110.obsmtp.com [64.18.3.99]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E763A6AD8 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([192.132.24.137]) (using SSLv3) by exprod8ob110.postini.com ([64.18.7.12]) with SMTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:09:31 PDT Received: from jwimkrs1.na.jci.com ([10.10.6.31]) by smtpmke01.jci.com (Lotus Domino Release 8.0.1) with ESMTP id 2008072112101848-130598 ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:10:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: roll@ietf.org, JP Vasseur X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.2 June 01, 2004 From: Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:09:42 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on jwimkrs1.na.jci.com/NA/Johnson_Controls at 07/21/2008 12:10:00 PM, Serialize complete at 07/21/2008 12:10:00 PM, Itemize by SMTP Server on smtpmke01.jci.com/JCI_SMTP(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 07/21/2008 12:10:18 PM, Serialize by Router on smtpmke01.jci.com/JCI_SMTP(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 07/21/2008 12:10:25 PM, Serialize complete at 07/21/2008 12:10:25 PM X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:24:27 -0700 Cc: Kirk.H.Drees@jci.com, Scott.T.Holland@jci.com Subject: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1104414902==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1104414902== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 005E45668625748D_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005E45668625748D_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello all, At JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company and the informational document I have submitted to ROLL. I will be in attendance at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to brief you on the content of the document. Hopefully you will get a chance to review the document prior to the meeting. I hope to be able to answer any questions you may have. If you cannot be in attendance, please feel free to forward to me your questions on email. I will try to answer them for you. I am Jerry Martocci. I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee work. I have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an active member of the ZigBee Alliance since 2004. However, this is my first foray into the IETF. BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial building interoperability of sensors, actuators and controllers, ZigBee is a sensor/controller 802.15.4 based technology. I've been at Johnson Controls for 30+ years in both technical and engineering management capacities. Johnson Controls is a US based manufacturing company ($38B) providing building, automotive and battery product solutions globally. JP corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing requirements for commercial buildings. I agreed, however, I said I would not limit the document to routing requirements only. My position then and now is that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be addressed regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing with the routing algorithms. The resulting paper is a compendium of these requirements defining product, network, cost, security and routing requirements. The paper is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both txt and pdf formats. I'd recommend reviewing the pdf format since it contains tables, figures and charts not available in the txt version. The filenames are: draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf I will provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then address any comments and questions you may have. Hope to meet you in Dublin. (I'll be the guy having no clue what to do or where to go!!!) Best Regards, Jerry Martocci Johnson Controls Inc. 507 E Michigan Street Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202 jerald.p.martocci@jci.com --=_alternative 005E45668625748D_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hello all,

At JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company and the informational document I have submitted to ROLL.  I will be in attendance at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to brief you on the content of the document.  Hopefully you will get a chance to review the document prior to the meeting.  I hope to be able to answer any questions you may have.  If you cannot be in attendance, please feel free to forward to me your questions on email.  I will try to answer them for you.

I am Jerry Martocci.  I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee work.  I have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an active member of the ZigBee Alliance since 2004.  However, this is my first foray into the IETF.  BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial building interoperability of sensors, actuators and controllers,  ZigBee is a sensor/controller 802.15.4 based technology.  I've been at Johnson Controls for 30+ years in both technical and engineering management capacities.  Johnson Controls is a US based manufacturing company ($38B) providing building, automotive and battery product solutions globally.

JP corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing requirements for commercial buildings.  I agreed, however, I said I would not limit the document to routing requirements only.  My position then and now is that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be addressed regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing with the routing algorithms.  The resulting paper is a compendium of these requirements defining product, network, cost, security and routing requirements.  The paper is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both txt and pdf formats.  I'd recommend reviewing the pdf format since it contains tables, figures and charts not available in the txt version.  The filenames are:

draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt
draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf

I will provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then address any comments and questions you may have.

Hope to meet you in Dublin.  (I'll be the guy having no clue what to do or where to go!!!)



Best Regards,

Jerry Martocci

Johnson Controls Inc.
507 E Michigan Street
Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202
jerald.p.martocci@jci.com --=_alternative 005E45668625748D_=-- --===============1104414902== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1104414902==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 22 12:18:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7AB3A6941; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:18:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBAF13A68CB for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:18:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.004, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2PcKd+L2R+Ud for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com (rtp-iport-2.cisco.com [64.102.122.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B244B3A6941 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:18:43 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,232,1215388800"; d="scan'208,217";a="15068646" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Jul 2008 19:19:17 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6MJJGFa027194 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:19:16 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6MJJGTa005776 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:19:16 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:19:16 -0400 Received: from 10.61.64.195 ([10.61.64.195]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:19:16 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.11.0.080522 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:19:15 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Agenda slightly updated Thread-Index: AcjsL9RUXGYHXQLlvE6MwXTmRZfSsg== Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2008 19:19:16.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[D561BEB0:01C8EC2F] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=777; t=1216754356; x=1217618356; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Agenda=20slightly=20updated |Sender:=20 |To:=20; bh=nES9evM6tkhqNmndlJNaYJKRJ2PeKrnWMVqldsUZpn0=; b=ke70pyf6ZxuU/wYqvHknFEEphdn1SlthnPyv/yAZESeiyNZM0oojem1/f2 j7p4ByRJbOEtSOLhZCjPG+EUUFVICvUfK2N7tnWBAm5dF8TUw6eVPJhowia3 I/Hea16j6z; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] Agenda slightly updated X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2130217589==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============2130217589== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3299606355_58985285" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3299606355_58985285 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt Thanks. JP. --B_3299606355_58985285 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Agenda slightly updated http://www= .ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt

Thanks.

JP. --B_3299606355_58985285-- --===============2130217589== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============2130217589==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 23 19:27:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EF53A687D; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:27:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C287C3A687D for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:27:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.04 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.04 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327, HOST_MISMATCH_AU=2.444, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MSGID_MULTIPLE_AT=1.449, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QOS9WLpAJuZc for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.g2microsystems.com (dsl-202-173-185-42.nsw.westnet.com.au [202.173.185.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EFB3A677C for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from davidgt61 ([10.1.2.219]) by sac.g2microsystems.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6O2RtQh002533; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:28:00 +1000 From: "David Goodall" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:27:58 +1000 Message-ID: <004e01c8ed34$e4c8b420$ae5a1c60$@goodall@g2microsystems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcjreEEMfUcNRn6MSwO5aBZRWL0FLgBu8seg Content-Language: en-us Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0340780126==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0340780126== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01C8ED88.B674C420" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C8ED88.B674C420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jerry, Do you have any time synchronization requirements? In other words do all sensors in a building need to be synchronized and if so, what is the required resolution, e.g. sub-microsecond? Regards, David From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:10 AM To: roll@ietf.org; JP Vasseur Cc: Kirk.H.Drees@jci.com; Scott.T.Holland@jci.com Subject: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL Hello all, At JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company and the informational document I have submitted to ROLL. I will be in attendance at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to brief you on the content of the document. Hopefully you will get a chance to review the document prior to the meeting. I hope to be able to answer any questions you may have. If you cannot be in attendance, please feel free to forward to me your questions on email. I will try to answer them for you. I am Jerry Martocci. I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee work. I have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an active member of the ZigBee Alliance since 2004. However, this is my first foray into the IETF. BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial building interoperability of sensors, actuators and controllers, ZigBee is a sensor/controller 802.15.4 based technology. I've been at Johnson Controls for 30+ years in both technical and engineering management capacities. Johnson Controls is a US based manufacturing company ($38B) providing building, automotive and battery product solutions globally. JP corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing requirements for commercial buildings. I agreed, however, I said I would not limit the document to routing requirements only. My position then and now is that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be addressed regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing with the routing algorithms. The resulting paper is a compendium of these requirements defining product, network, cost, security and routing requirements. The paper is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both txt and pdf formats. I'd recommend reviewing the pdf format since it contains tables, figures and charts not available in the txt version. The filenames are: draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf I will provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then address any comments and questions you may have. Hope to meet you in Dublin. (I'll be the guy having no clue what to do or where to go!!!) Best Regards, Jerry Martocci Johnson Controls Inc. 507 E Michigan Street Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202 jerald.p.martocci@jci.com ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C8ED88.B674C420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jerry,

 

Do you have any time synchronization requirements? In = other words do all sensors in a building need to be synchronized and if so, = what is the required resolution, e.g. sub-microsecond?

 

Regards,

David

 

 

From:= roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:10 AM
To: roll@ietf.org; JP Vasseur
Cc: Kirk.H.Drees@jci.com; Scott.T.Holland@jci.com
Subject: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for = ROLL

 


Hello = all,

At = JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company and the = informational document I have submitted to ROLL.  I will be in attendance at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to brief you on = the content of the document.  Hopefully you will get a chance to review = the document prior to the meeting.  I hope to be able to answer any = questions you may have.  If you cannot be in attendance, please feel free to = forward to me your questions on email.  I will try to answer them for = you.

I am = Jerry Martocci.  I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee work. =  I have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an active = member of the ZigBee Alliance since 2004.  However, this is my first foray = into the IETF.  BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial building = interoperability of sensors, actuators and controllers,  ZigBee is a = sensor/controller 802.15.4 based technology.  I've been at Johnson Controls for 30+ = years in both technical and engineering management capacities.  Johnson = Controls is a US based manufacturing company ($38B) providing building, automotive = and battery product solutions globally.

JP = corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing requirements = for commercial buildings.  I agreed, however, I said I would not limit = the document to routing requirements only.  My position then and now is = that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be addressed = regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing with the routing algorithms.  The resulting paper is a compendium of these = requirements defining product, network, cost, security and routing requirements. =  The paper is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both txt and pdf = formats.  I'd recommend reviewing the pdf format since it contains tables, = figures and charts not available in the txt version.  The filenames = are:

draft-martocc= i-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt
draft-martocc= i-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf

I will = provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then address any = comments and questions you may have.

Hope = to meet you in Dublin.  (I'll be the guy having no clue what to do or where = to go!!!)



Best = Regards,

Jerry = Martocci

Johnson Controls Inc.
507 E = Michigan Street
Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202
jerald.p.mart= occi@jci.com

------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C8ED88.B674C420-- --===============0340780126== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============0340780126==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 24 05:43:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8953E3A6947; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:43:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB6B3A6947 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:43:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LH4yQFshPjMG for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374A53A6905 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h165154.gprs.dnafinland.fi (h165154.gprs.dnafinland.fi [87.93.165.154]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m6OChsgI025359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:43:55 +0300 Message-ID: <48887913.4080900@sensinode.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:44:03 +0300 From: Zach Shelby User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] home-routing-reqs-02 comments X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Anders, Giorgio, Here are a few comments. In general the draft is really good. Section 3.9 doesn't seem to fit into Chapter 3 (Applications). It would be better in Chapter 4 tied to a requirement on battery-powered. The list of applications in Chapter 3 is useful, but it is hard to pick out and compare the requirements they have. Could a short table be added to summarize their requirements and differences? I'm concerned about Section 4.1 (similar requirement is found from the commercial building draft as well). How can we ensure that in ROLL? Grouping like this, which can't be achieved by existing IPv6 mechanisms should be dealt with at the application layer. So does this belong in this draft as a requirement? Maybe a looser requirement on what the routing algorithm should do to support applications using groups is appropriate? The last paragraph on Section 4.3 comes to the conclusion that mobility is the main reason for non-responsive nodes. How about sleeping nodes, which is likely the main cause. You probably assumed that and just didn't mention it. Maybe we could be explicit about sleeping nodes here. E.g. non-reachability because battery-powered nodes are sleeping is common, but we assume that nodes are aware of sleeping schedules somehow. Section 4.4 is a bit dangerous when it comes to periodic scanning. Reading levis-protocols-survey there is a good discussion on period control traffic without data traffic. Should periodic scanning really be a MUST here? Isn't it enough that neighbors are recognized (e.g. using L2 triggers) without the use of periodic scanning which in the absence of any data is not ideal. In Section 4.6 the convergence time could be defined better? Is that the RREQ time e.g. in a distance-vector algorithm? Src -> RREQ -> Dst -> RREP -> Src. Or is it the RREQ time plus the first RTT after that? In Section 7 I think the current security discussion there is irrelevant to roll. But I think the open issue on security is meant to add routing related security issues, which do belong there. -- Zach Shelby | Head of Research | +358 40 7796297 Sensinode Ltd. www.sensinode.com _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 24 06:06:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DEE3A69E3; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:06:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3463A6807 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:06:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.463 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.463 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DAiHadJ+KTNc for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC453A6A2C for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h165154.gprs.dnafinland.fi (h165154.gprs.dnafinland.fi [87.93.165.154]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m6OD6hFs026044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:06:45 +0300 Message-ID: <48887E6C.6030607@sensinode.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:06:52 +0300 From: Zach Shelby User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] commercial-routing-reqs comments X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Jerry et. al. First of all Jerry, welcome to the IETF. I'm sure you will be a huge asset to ROLL (and 6lowpan). The IETF is full of fun-loving, t-shirt wearing, Internet nerds, who drink plenty of beer, many of whom wish it was still the 70s ;-) Just be sure not to wear a suit! Here are some comments on your draft. In general this is an awesome handbook for commercial building automation, we just need to trim it down to the essential routing issues. Maybe some of the other requirements and ideas could be contributed to the application and security drafts in 6lowpan? I like Chapter 3, I think i gives insight into how commercial building automation is organized right now. Could the application areas (HVAC, Fire etc.) be expanded a bit more like in home-routing-reqs? One thing to keep in mind in this chapter is that the flexibility provided by IP in such a network may enable a flatter architecture than FMS - BC - ZC - AC - Sensors/Actuators. Could this a section here be added to consider how a future architecture using IP with ROLL routing might look? Chapter 4 and 5 are not needed in the draft. There are tons of requirements here. I would like to see only the routing-related ones kept. Maybe like 20 requirements max? Here is a list of what I think belongs: Chapter 8: Requirements 3, 5, 6, 9 (make a generic traffic pattern requirement rather than a BACnet specific one), 17 Chapter 9: Requirements 20, 23. Chapter 10: Requirements 27, 30, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 47, 48, 50, 51. Note 50 and 51 should use the oposite logic and limit those tables to a maximum rather than a minimum which constrains the routing algorithm to scale better - O(D) as in levis-protocols-survey. Not sure what to do with Chapter 11.. boil it down to just a few security requirements somehow? Hope this helps, Zach -- Zach Shelby | Head of Research | +358 40 7796297 Sensinode Ltd. www.sensinode.com _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 24 06:47:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3AC73A69FC; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C813A69FC for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.034 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.034 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.168, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XMwfYgCxfERe for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C6F3A694F for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:47:54 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,246,1215388800"; d="scan'208,217";a="15335557" Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2008 13:48:39 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6ODmdI2014506 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:48:39 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6ODmdvj003585 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:48:39 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:48:38 -0400 Received: from 10.61.64.210 ([10.61.64.210]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:48:39 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.11.0.080522 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:48:33 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: * Reminder - Please send your slides ** FW: [Roll] ROLL WG Meeting in Dublin: Agenda and Slide Thread-Index: AcjqSPF7VoLaDwiMvUed+HiLrWfEIwDSwTtd In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2008 13:48:38.0981 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9F7EF50:01C8ED93] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2336; t=1216907319; x=1217771319; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20*=20Reminder=20-=20Please=20send=20your=20slide s=20**=20FW=3A=20[Roll]=20ROLL=20WG=20Meeting=20in=0A=20Dubl in=3A=20Agenda=20and=20Slide |Sender:=20 |To:=20; bh=Sp9uYYdowCjURpAGlTOGnnwESJSu5MjUscNqkJC0/i8=; b=MCKa9UJBVRRqbsQKOpN7H0N6x3LsmYprRUOaH6SSU5LEKCApEbUCYgPik0 obbUADhI2l6nxfo2dXJL24UPvHsgYx9aNBy3ddN5TdzZC8pAA5KTjxCRnkzG ElIKuDu+Gd; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] * Reminder - Please send your slides ** FW: ROLL WG Meeting in Dublin: Agenda and Slide X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0323440120==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0323440120== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3299759316_61769037" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3299759316_61769037 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks. JP. ------ Forwarded Message From: JP Vasseur Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:13:59 +0200 To: Subject: [Roll] ROLL WG Meeting in Dublin: Agenda and Slide Dear WG, Please find the final (fully packed) agenda the ROLL WG meeting: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt If you have a slot, please send us the slide by July 24 5pm PST. Thanks. JP. _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll ------ End of Forwarded Message --B_3299759316_61769037 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable * Reminder - Please send your slides ** FW: [Roll] ROLL WG Meeting i= n Dublin: Agenda and Slide Thanks.

JP.

------ Forwarded Message
From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com= >
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:13:59 +0200
To: <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: [Roll] ROLL WG Meeting in Dublin: Agenda and Slide

Dear WG,

Please find the final (fully packed) agenda the ROLL WG meeting: http://www.ietf.org/pr= oceedings/08jul/agenda/roll.txt

If you have a slot, please send us the slide by July 24 5pm PST.

Thanks.

JP.
___________= ____________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/roll

------ End of Forwarded Message
 --B_3299759316_61769037-- --===============0323440120== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============0323440120==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 24 11:49:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CC828C0F0; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:49:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95DF28C0F4 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:49:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gLzbPoiNX4Su for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod8og104.obsmtp.com (exprod8og104.obsmtp.com [64.18.3.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FADB28C0DB for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([192.132.24.137]) (using SSLv3) by exprod8ob104.postini.com ([64.18.7.12]) with SMTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:49:26 PDT Received: from jwimkrs1.na.jci.com ([10.10.6.31]) by smtpmke01.jci.com (Lotus Domino Release 8.0.1) with ESMTP id 2008072413500607-520497 ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:50:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: <004e01c8ed34$e4c8b420$ae5a1c60$@goodall@g2microsystems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David Goodall" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.2 June 01, 2004 From: Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:49:27 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on jwimkrs1.na.jci.com/NA/Johnson_Controls at 07/24/2008 01:49:35 PM, Serialize complete at 07/24/2008 01:49:35 PM, Itemize by SMTP Server on smtpmke01.jci.com/JCI_SMTP(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 07/24/2008 01:50:06 PM, Serialize by Router on smtpmke01.jci.com/JCI_SMTP(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 07/24/2008 01:50:11 PM, Serialize complete at 07/24/2008 01:50:11 PM Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1453644821==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1453644821== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0067677E86257490_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0067677E86257490_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" David, Not at this time. In the future we may add 'locationing' mechanisms to our wireless devices to track asset (or people) in a building. At that point, we would decide if we needed a TDOA (time difference of arrival) algorithm and might then meed precise time syncs. At this time however all controllers are independent entities operating asynchronously. Thanks for the comments. If you think we need time sync, we can add a requirement. I did put a QoS requirement in the document. In many cases the need for time sync is due to latencies realized in moving the source packet through the network to a serving device. If those latencies were minimized or at least constant, the need for critical time syncs are reduced. Regards, Jerry "David Goodall" 07/23/2008 09:27 PM To cc Subject RE: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL Hi Jerry, Do you have any time synchronization requirements? In other words do all sensors in a building need to be synchronized and if so, what is the required resolution, e.g. sub-microsecond? Regards, David From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:10 AM To: roll@ietf.org; JP Vasseur Cc: Kirk.H.Drees@jci.com; Scott.T.Holland@jci.com Subject: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL Hello all, At JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company and the informational document I have submitted to ROLL. I will be in attendance at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to brief you on the content of the document. Hopefully you will get a chance to review the document prior to the meeting. I hope to be able to answer any questions you may have. If you cannot be in attendance, please feel free to forward to me your questions on email. I will try to answer them for you. I am Jerry Martocci. I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee work. I have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an active member of the ZigBee Alliance since 2004. However, this is my first foray into the IETF. BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial building interoperability of sensors, actuators and controllers, ZigBee is a sensor/controller 802.15.4 based technology. I've been at Johnson Controls for 30+ years in both technical and engineering management capacities. Johnson Controls is a US based manufacturing company ($38B) providing building, automotive and battery product solutions globally. JP corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing requirements for commercial buildings. I agreed, however, I said I would not limit the document to routing requirements only. My position then and now is that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be addressed regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing with the routing algorithms. The resulting paper is a compendium of these requirements defining product, network, cost, security and routing requirements. The paper is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both txt and pdf formats. I'd recommend reviewing the pdf format since it contains tables, figures and charts not available in the txt version. The filenames are: draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf I will provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then address any comments and questions you may have. Hope to meet you in Dublin. (I'll be the guy having no clue what to do or where to go!!!) Best Regards, Jerry Martocci Johnson Controls Inc. 507 E Michigan Street Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202 jerald.p.martocci@jci.com --=_alternative 0067677E86257490_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
David,

Not at this time.  In the future we may add 'locationing' mechanisms to our wireless devices to track asset (or people) in a building.  At that point, we would decide if we needed a TDOA (time difference of arrival) algorithm and might then meed precise time syncs.  At this time however all controllers are independent entities operating asynchronously.

Thanks for the comments.  If you think we need time sync, we can add a requirement.  I did put a QoS requirement in the document.  In many cases the need for time sync is due to latencies realized in moving the source packet through the network to a serving device.  If those latencies were minimized or at least constant, the need for critical time syncs are reduced.

Regards,

Jerry






"David Goodall" <david.goodall@g2microsystems.com>

07/23/2008 09:27 PM

To
<Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com>
cc
<roll@ietf.org>
Subject
RE: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL





Hi Jerry,
 
Do you have any time synchronization requirements? In other words do all sensors in a building need to be synchronized and if so, what is the required resolution, e.g. sub-microsecond?
 
Regards,
David
 
 
From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:10 AM
To: roll@ietf.org; JP Vasseur
Cc: Kirk.H.Drees@jci.com; Scott.T.Holland@jci.com
Subject: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL
 

Hello all,

At JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company and the informational document I have submitted to ROLL.  I will be in attendance at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to brief you on the content of the document.  Hopefully you will get a chance to review the document prior to the meeting.  I hope to be able to answer any questions you may have.  If you cannot be in attendance, please feel free to forward to me your questions on email.  I will try to answer them for you.

I am Jerry Martocci.  I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee work.  I have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an active member of the ZigBee Alliance since 2004.  However, this is my first foray into the IETF.  BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial building interoperability of sensors, actuators and controllers,  ZigBee is a sensor/controller 802.15.4 based technology.  I've been at Johnson Controls for 30+ years in both technical and engineering management capacities.  Johnson Controls is a US based manufacturing company ($38B) providing building, automotive and battery product solutions globally.

JP corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing requirements for commercial buildings.  I agreed, however, I said I would not limit the document to routing requirements only.  My position then and now is that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be addressed regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing with the routing algorithms.  The resulting paper is a compendium of these requirements defining product, network, cost, security and routing requirements.  The paper is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both txt and pdf formats.  I'd recommend reviewing the pdf format since it contains tables, figures and charts not available in the txt version.  The filenames are:

draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt
draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf

I will provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then address any comments and questions you may have.

Hope to meet you in Dublin.  (I'll be the guy having no clue what to do or where to go!!!)



Best Regards,

Jerry Martocci

Johnson Controls Inc.
507 E Michigan Street
Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202
jerald.p.martocci@jci.com
--=_alternative 0067677E86257490_=-- --===============1453644821== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1453644821==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 24 12:57:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B248B3A6A6E; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:57:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D1F3A6A6E; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:57:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.772 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.772 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5fxTtZgxmDnQ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod8og101.obsmtp.com (exprod8og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.3.82]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704303A6A29; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([192.132.24.139]) (using SSLv3) by exprod8ob101.postini.com ([64.18.7.12]) with SMTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:57:35 PDT Received: from jwimkrs1.na.jci.com ([10.10.6.31]) by smtpmke02.jci.com (Lotus Domino Release 8.0.1) with ESMTP id 2008072414573909-603988 ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:57:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: <48887E6C.6030607@sensinode.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zach Shelby X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.2 June 01, 2004 From: Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:56:56 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on jwimkrs1.na.jci.com/NA/Johnson_Controls at 07/24/2008 02:57:05 PM, Serialize complete at 07/24/2008 02:57:05 PM, Itemize by SMTP Server on smtpmke02.jci.com/JCI_SMTP(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 07/24/2008 02:57:39 PM, Serialize by Router on smtpmke02.jci.com/JCI_SMTP(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 07/24/2008 02:57:59 PM, Serialize complete at 07/24/2008 02:57:59 PM Cc: roll@ietf.org, roll-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] commercial-routing-reqs comments X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1052977671==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1052977671== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 006D953286257490_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006D953286257490_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Zach. Thanks for the welcome and the comments. You can be assured my suits and ties will stay safely stored in the back of my closet. If I have to work weekends, it will be in my weekend attire. (grubby). I appreciate your thorough review of the document. I will try to provide you some insights in this email. Maybe we can do a deeper dive over a beer next week. I believe JP told me 'rookies buy!!!'. So as for the comments... 1. First off, I can see that my trying to sneak some non-routing requirements past you didn't work!!! (Very perceptive!!!) I realize this is outside the scope of ROLL, however it isn't outside the purview of commercial building requirements. If we're going to spend weekends developing routing algorithms to move packets that are on the network, we really should be confident that there are economically viable means of getting the packets onto the network in the first place. We need to realize that we are not adding a $1000 laptop or $10000 server to the network. We are talking about client devices (e.g. temperature sensors) in the $30 range. If ROLL, 6LowPan and the IETF decide to ignore these constraints that fine, however pragmatics will enter into the equation as manufacturers develop these products. 2. As for flattening the topology. No question that can happen. However, as I tried to note, there are still logical groupings of independent devices communicating that should be segmented off from the rest of the network. For instance a meeting room in an office building may have an occupancy sensor, lighting sensors, temp sensors, solar load sensors, shutter control, and air flow dampers all collaborating to provide the optimal environmental experience for the room inhabitants. These 15 devices however are nearly completely independent from the next meeting room down the hall. So yes flattening the network is a great thing if it doesn't deleteriously affect the network bandwidth. The current hierarchical topology provides this nature segmentation. So we want to flatten the physical network, yet not the logical network. I tried to note that run-time discovery of devices and objects are required. Again, I would like to be able to scope the discovery domains. 3. Not sure what your BACnet reference means. BACnet is the interoperable application layer protocol of choice to sew the thousands of disparate devices installed in a building into a synergistic application solution as prescribed by the customer. I hate to be so blasphemous to the IETF on my first email, but the customer is way more interested in a seamless interaction of his system components than having IP temperature sensors.!!! Something I forgot to note in my document which might be enlightening is that the Facility Director is king of the facility domain, in the same regard the CTO is king of the IT domain. These guys typically don't talk much and many times (currently about 50%) don't even want to be on the same network infrastructure. I guess what I'm trying to say is the allure of IP devices might be lost to the customer when you're selling a facility management system. 4. Chapter 11 was my weak attempt at trying to describe various security scenarios along the continuum of commercial buildings. These systems have to serve buildings ranging from a single tenant multi-story office building, to pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities to military installations. The security levels defined must then match the application requirements at hand. These systems, by the way, are typically 'shrink-wrapped' at the development center and tailored in the field. One size fits all. They are not installed in a 'one off' fashion. This means that the system must innately support the entire gamut of requirements. They are then selected in the field to match the customer requirements. I hope this adds a touch more insight into the needs. Again, I realize I overshot the mark, but thought it best to capture the entire picture and whinny it down then to provide a brief outline that might miss the salient points. Hope to meet you in Dublin, Jerry Zach Shelby Sent by: roll-bounces@ietf.org 07/24/2008 08:07 AM To roll@ietf.org cc Subject [Roll] commercial-routing-reqs comments Jerry et. al. First of all Jerry, welcome to the IETF. I'm sure you will be a huge asset to ROLL (and 6lowpan). The IETF is full of fun-loving, t-shirt wearing, Internet nerds, who drink plenty of beer, many of whom wish it was still the 70s ;-) Just be sure not to wear a suit! Here are some comments on your draft. In general this is an awesome handbook for commercial building automation, we just need to trim it down to the essential routing issues. Maybe some of the other requirements and ideas could be contributed to the application and security drafts in 6lowpan? I like Chapter 3, I think i gives insight into how commercial building automation is organized right now. Could the application areas (HVAC, Fire etc.) be expanded a bit more like in home-routing-reqs? One thing to keep in mind in this chapter is that the flexibility provided by IP in such a network may enable a flatter architecture than FMS - BC - ZC - AC - Sensors/Actuators. Could this a section here be added to consider how a future architecture using IP with ROLL routing might look? Chapter 4 and 5 are not needed in the draft. There are tons of requirements here. I would like to see only the routing-related ones kept. Maybe like 20 requirements max? Here is a list of what I think belongs: Chapter 8: Requirements 3, 5, 6, 9 (make a generic traffic pattern requirement rather than a BACnet specific one), 17 Chapter 9: Requirements 20, 23. Chapter 10: Requirements 27, 30, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 47, 48, 50, 51. Note 50 and 51 should use the oposite logic and limit those tables to a maximum rather than a minimum which constrains the routing algorithm to scale better - O(D) as in levis-protocols-survey. Not sure what to do with Chapter 11.. boil it down to just a few security requirements somehow? Hope this helps, Zach -- Zach Shelby | Head of Research | +358 40 7796297 Sensinode Ltd. www.sensinode.com _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --=_alternative 006D953286257490_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hey Zach.

Thanks for the welcome and the comments.  You can be assured my suits and ties will stay safely stored in the back of my closet.  If I have to work weekends, it will be in my weekend attire. (grubby).

I appreciate your thorough review of the document.  I will try to provide you some insights in this email.  Maybe we can do a deeper dive over a beer next week.  I believe JP told me 'rookies buy!!!'.

So as for the comments...

1.        First off, I can see that my trying to sneak some non-routing requirements past you didn't work!!!  (Very perceptive!!!)  I realize this is outside the scope of ROLL, however it isn't outside the purview of commercial building requirements.  If we're going to spend weekends developing routing algorithms to move packets that are on the network, we really should be confident that there are economically viable means of getting the packets onto the network in the first place.  We need to realize that we are not adding a $1000 laptop or $10000 server to the network.  We are talking about client devices (e.g. temperature sensors) in the $30 range.  If ROLL, 6LowPan and the IETF decide to ignore these constraints that fine, however pragmatics will enter into the equation as manufacturers develop these products.

2.        As for flattening the topology.  No question that can happen.  However, as I tried to note, there are still logical groupings of independent devices communicating that should be segmented off from the rest of the network.  For instance a meeting room in an office building may have an occupancy sensor, lighting sensors, temp sensors, solar load sensors, shutter control, and air flow dampers all collaborating to provide the optimal environmental experience for the room inhabitants.  These 15 devices however are nearly completely independent from the next meeting room down the hall.  So yes flattening the network is a great thing if it doesn't deleteriously affect the network bandwidth.  The current hierarchical topology provides this nature segmentation.  So we want to flatten the physical network, yet not the logical network.  I tried to note that run-time discovery of devices and objects are required.  Again, I would like to be able to scope the discovery domains.

3.        Not sure what your BACnet reference means.  BACnet is the interoperable application layer protocol of choice to sew the thousands of disparate devices installed in a building into a synergistic application solution as prescribed by the customer.  I hate to be so blasphemous to the IETF on my first email, but the customer is way more interested in a seamless interaction of his system components than having IP temperature sensors.!!!  Something I forgot to note in my document which might be enlightening is that the Facility Director is king of the facility domain, in the same regard the CTO is king of the IT domain.  These guys typically don't talk much and many times (currently about 50%) don't even want to be on the same network infrastructure.  I guess what I'm trying to say is the allure of IP devices might be lost to the customer when you're selling a facility management system.

4.        Chapter 11 was my weak attempt at trying to describe various security scenarios along the continuum of commercial buildings.  These systems have to serve buildings ranging from a single tenant multi-story office building, to pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities to military installations.  The security levels defined must then match the application requirements at hand.  These systems, by the way, are typically 'shrink-wrapped' at the development center and tailored in the field.  One size fits all.  They are not installed in a 'one off' fashion.  This means that the system must innately support the entire gamut of requirements.  They are then selected in the field to match the customer requirements.

I hope this adds a touch more insight into the needs.  Again, I realize I overshot the mark, but thought it best to capture the entire picture and whinny it down then to provide a brief outline that might miss the salient points.

Hope to meet you in Dublin,

Jerry




Zach Shelby <zach@sensinode.com>
Sent by: roll-bounces@ietf.org

07/24/2008 08:07 AM

To
roll@ietf.org
cc
Subject
[Roll] commercial-routing-reqs comments





Jerry et. al.

First of all Jerry, welcome to the IETF. I'm sure you will be a huge
asset to ROLL (and 6lowpan). The IETF is full of fun-loving, t-shirt
wearing, Internet nerds, who drink plenty of beer, many of whom wish it
was still the 70s ;-) Just be sure not to wear a suit!

Here are some comments on your draft. In general this is an awesome
handbook for commercial building automation, we just need to trim it
down to the essential routing issues. Maybe some of the other
requirements and ideas could be contributed to the application and
security drafts in 6lowpan?

I like Chapter 3, I think i gives insight into how commercial building
automation is organized right now. Could the application areas (HVAC,
Fire etc.) be expanded a bit more like in home-routing-reqs? One thing
to keep in mind in this chapter is that the flexibility provided by IP
in such a network may enable a flatter architecture than FMS - BC - ZC -
AC - Sensors/Actuators. Could this a section here be added to consider
how a future architecture using IP with ROLL routing might look?

Chapter 4 and 5 are not needed in the draft.

There are tons of requirements here. I would like to see only the
routing-related ones kept. Maybe like 20 requirements max? Here is a
list of what I think belongs:

Chapter 8:

Requirements 3, 5, 6, 9 (make a generic traffic pattern requirement
rather than a BACnet specific one), 17

Chapter 9:

Requirements 20, 23.

Chapter 10:

Requirements 27, 30, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 47, 48, 50, 51. Note 50
and 51 should use the oposite logic and limit those tables to a maximum
rather than a minimum which constrains the routing algorithm to scale
better - O(D) as in levis-protocols-survey.

Not sure what to do with Chapter 11.. boil it down to just a few
security requirements somehow?

Hope this helps,
Zach

--
Zach Shelby | Head of Research | +358 40 7796297
Sensinode Ltd.   www.sensinode.com
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
--=_alternative 006D953286257490_=-- --===============1052977671== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1052977671==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 24 14:02:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E090128C151; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:02:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C61528C132 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:02:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Go19JSOOlUnI for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A9228C148 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:02:29 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,248,1215388800"; d="scan'208,217";a="15407374" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2008 21:02:12 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6OL2Cjd014221; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:02:12 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6OL2C0v003424; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:02:12 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:02:12 -0400 Received: from 10.61.64.203 ([10.61.64.203]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:02:12 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.11.0.080522 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:02:09 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: , David Goodall Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL Thread-Index: Acjt0Ikl8wyIUzp8xEKM0xMXz+7qnw== In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2008 21:02:12.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B3361C0:01C8EDD0] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=15187; t=1216933332; x=1217797332; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Roll]=20IETF=20Building=20Requirements =20for=20ROLL |Sender:=20 |To:=20,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20David=20Goodall=20; bh=bxjTtAdU2PExasBbcLo6+XPXapWhT8/r/650cjCYN3M=; b=szpfUzG23sZddvVy/s9MwemIVDYGm1qMhiwRMnOoMLabKjVty1X1V/ex1R LhRXgRExt2SgDoE1wWI0HqPLuN0QkJVHWfFvoLxm1OJDm2zxGB2ode8sMSf6 jdgJgFHELV; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0678836498==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0678836498== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3299785330_63331611" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3299785330_63331611 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable An interesting issue for sure, but bear in mind that this is outside on our scope. The document is full of very useful information for the WG but with also quite a few requirements and items that are not related to routing. I=B9ll make a detailed pass at it very soon. Thanks for the work Jerry. Cheers, JP. On 7/24/08 8:49 PM, "Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com" wrote: >=20 > David,=20 >=20 > Not at this time. In the future we may add 'locationing' mechanisms to o= ur > wireless devices to track asset (or people) in a building. At that point= , we > would decide if we needed a TDOA (time difference of arrival) algorithm a= nd > might then meed precise time syncs. At this time however all controllers= are > independent entities operating asynchronously. >=20 > Thanks for the comments. If you think we need time sync, we can add a > requirement. I did put a QoS requirement in the document. In many cases= the > need for time sync is due to latencies realized in moving the source pack= et > through the network to a serving device. If those latencies were minimiz= ed or > at least constant, the need for critical time syncs are reduced. >=20 > Regards,=20 >=20 > Jerry=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > "David Goodall" 07/23/2008 09:27 PM > To=20 > > cc=20 > =20 > Subject=20 > RE: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Jerry,=20 > =20 > Do you have any time synchronization requirements? In other words do all > sensors in a building need to be synchronized and if so, what is the requ= ired > resolution, e.g. sub-microsecond? > =20 > Regards,=20 > David=20 > =20 > =20 > From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:10 AM > To: roll@ietf.org; JP Vasseur > Cc: Kirk.H.Drees@jci.com; Scott.T.Holland@jci.com > Subject: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL > =20 >=20 > Hello all,=20 >=20 > At JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company = and > the informational document I have submitted to ROLL. I will be in attend= ance > at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to brief y= ou on > the content of the document. Hopefully you will get a chance to review t= he > document prior to the meeting. I hope to be able to answer any questions= you > may have. If you cannot be in attendance, please feel free to forward to= me > your questions on email. I will try to answer them for you. >=20 > I am Jerry Martocci. I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee wor= k. I > have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an active membe= r of > the ZigBee Alliance since 2004. However, this is my first foray into the > IETF. BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial building interoperability= of > sensors, actuators and controllers, ZigBee is a sensor/controller 802.15= .4 > based technology. I've been at Johnson Controls for 30+ years in both > technical and engineering management capacities. Johnson Controls is a U= S > based manufacturing company ($38B) providing building, automotive and bat= tery > product solutions globally. >=20 > JP corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing > requirements for commercial buildings. I agreed, however, I said I would= not > limit the document to routing requirements only. My position then and no= w is > that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be addressed > regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing with th= e > routing algorithms. The resulting paper is a compendium of these require= ments > defining product, network, cost, security and routing requirements. The = paper > is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both txt and pdf formats. = I'd > recommend reviewing the pdf format since it contains tables, figures and > charts not available in the txt version. The filenames are: >=20 > draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt > draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf >=20 > I will provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then > address any comments and questions you may have. >=20 > Hope to meet you in Dublin. (I'll be the guy having no clue what to do o= r > where to go!!!)=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Best Regards,=20 >=20 > Jerry Martocci=20 >=20 > Johnson Controls Inc. > 507 E Michigan Street > Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202 > jerald.p.martocci@jci.com >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --B_3299785330_63331611 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL An interesting issue for sure, but bear in mind that this is outside on ou= r scope. The document is full of very useful information for the WG but with= also quite a few requirements and items that are not related to routing. I&= #8217;ll make a detailed pass at it very soon.

Thanks for the work Jerry.

Cheers,

JP.


On 7/24/08 8:49 PM, "Jerald.P.Mart= occi@jci.com" <Jerald.P.Mart= occi@jci.com> wrote:

<= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'>
David,

Not at this time.  In the future we may add 'locationing' mechanisms t= o our wireless devices to track asset (or people) in a building.  At th= at point, we would decide if we needed a TDOA (time difference of arrival) a= lgorithm and might then meed precise time syncs.  At this time however = all controllers are independent entities operating asynchronously.

Thanks for the comments.  If you think we need time sync, we can add a= requirement.  I did put a QoS requirement in the document.  In ma= ny cases the need for time sync is due to latencies realized in moving the s= ource packet through the network to a serving device.  If those latenci= es were minimized or at least constant, the need for critical time syncs are= reduced.

Regards,

Jerry






"David Goodall&q= uot; <david.goodall@g2microsys= tems.com> 07/23/2008 09:27 PM=20

To

<Jerald.P.Martocci@j= ci.com>=20

cc

<roll@ietf.org>=20

Subject

RE: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL




Hi Jerry,

Do you have any time synchronization requirements? In other words do all se= nsors in a building need to be synchronized and if so, what is the required = resolution, e.g. sub-microsecond?

Regards,
David

 
From: roll-boun= ces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeral= d.P.Martocci@jci.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:10 AM
To: roll@ietf.org; JP Vasseur
Cc: Kirk.H.Drees@jci.com; Scott.T.Holland@jci.com
Subject: [Roll] IETF Building Requirements for ROLL


Hello all,

At JP's request this email is a brief introduction of myself, my company an= d the informational document I have submitted to ROLL.  I will be in at= tendance at the Tuesday, July 29 ROLL meeting in Dublin, but would like to b= rief you on the content of the document.  Hopefully you will get a chan= ce to review the document prior to the meeting.  I hope to be able to a= nswer any questions you may have.  If you cannot be in attendance, plea= se feel free to forward to me your questions on email.  I will try to a= nswer them for you.

I am Jerry Martocci.  I am pretty seasoned in standards and committee = work.  I have been a member of the BACnet Committee since 1997 and an a= ctive member of the ZigBee Alliance since 2004.  However, this is my fi= rst foray into the IETF.  BACnet is an ISO Standard for commercial buil= ding interoperability of sensors, actuators and controllers,  ZigBee is= a sensor/controller 802.15.4 based technology.  I've been at Johnson C= ontrols for 30+ years in both technical and engineering management capacitie= s.  Johnson Controls is a US based manufacturing company ($38B) providi= ng building, automotive and battery product solutions globally. <= BR>
JP corralled me in April to draft sensor, actuator and controller routing r= equirements for commercial buildings.  I agreed, however, I said I woul= d not limit the document to routing requirements only.  My position the= n and now is that there are other logistic and economic issues that must be = addressed regarding embedded IP sensor/controller networks prior to dealing = with the routing algorithms.  The resulting paper is a compendium of th= ese requirements defining product, network, cost, security and routing requi= rements.  The paper is available on the IETF - ROLL repository in both = txt and pdf formats.  I'd recommend reviewing the pdf format since it c= ontains tables, figures and charts not available in the txt version.  T= he filenames are:<= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:18pt'>

draft-martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.txt
draft-= martocci-roll-commercial-routing-req-00.pdf

I will provide a quick overview of the document at the meeting and then add= ress any comments and questions you may have.

Hope to meet you in Dublin.  (I'll be the guy having no clue what to d= o or where to go!!!)
Best Regards,

Jerry Martocci

Johnson Controls Inc.
507 E = Michigan Street
Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA 53202
jerald.p.martocci@jci.com <= BR>

___________= ____________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/roll
--B_3299785330_63331611-- --===============0678836498== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============0678836498==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 25 00:01:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869633A69B6; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:01:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5262C3A69B6 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:01:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ebq5KPWeWV7P for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E06593A696C for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h152168.gprs.dnafinland.fi (h152168.gprs.dnafinland.fi [87.93.152.168]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m6P70vj1025213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:00:59 +0300 Message-ID: <48897A35.8030306@sensinode.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:01:09 +0300 From: Zach Shelby User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com References: In-Reply-To: Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] commercial-routing-reqs comments X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Jerald.P.Martocci@jci.com wrote: > 1. First off, I can see that my trying to sneak some non-routing > requirements past you didn't work!!! (Very perceptive!!!) I realize > this is outside the scope of ROLL, however it isn't outside the purview > of commercial building requirements. If we're going to spend weekends > developing routing algorithms to move packets that are on the network, > we really should be confident that there are economically viable means > of getting the packets onto the network in the first place. We need to > realize that we are not adding a $1000 laptop or $10000 server to the > network. We are talking about client devices (e.g. temperature sensors) > in the $30 range. If ROLL, 6LowPan and the IETF decide to ignore these > constraints that fine, however pragmatics will enter into the equation > as manufacturers develop these products. I also like the approach: an overall view. I think by boiling it down to the bare minimum routing requirements, you can still have the justification behind each requirement as in the home automation ID. So for example: The routing solution MUST be implementable in a cheap 8-bit microcontroller with 4 kB or RAM and 32 kB of flash. You already had one like that. Now just explain before the requirement why it is there (the economics and current technical SOTA). So organizing each requirement into its own subsection rather than in a (PDF) table would enable you to do that. > 2. As for flattening the topology. No question that can happen. > However, as I tried to note, there are still logical groupings of > independent devices communicating that should be segmented off from the > rest of the network. For instance a meeting room in an office building > may have an occupancy sensor, lighting sensors, temp sensors, solar load > sensors, shutter control, and air flow dampers all collaborating to > provide the optimal environmental experience for the room inhabitants. > These 15 devices however are nearly completely independent from the > next meeting room down the hall. So yes flattening the network is a > great thing if it doesn't deleteriously affect the network bandwidth. > The current hierarchical topology provides this nature segmentation. > So we want to flatten the physical network, yet not the logical > network. I tried to note that run-time discovery of devices and objects > are required. Again, I would like to be able to scope the discovery > domains. Logical topology can definitely stay, and with a flat physical topology (server, routers, nodes) you can also completely partition your network using different channels, PAN IDs and even encryption codes. The network can also be physically partitioned from the IT network. Ethernet switching can partition your areas. Scoping the routing domains is a very good requirement. > 3. Not sure what your BACnet reference means. BACnet is the > interoperable application layer protocol of choice to sew the thousands > of disparate devices installed in a building into a synergistic > application solution as prescribed by the customer. I hate to be so > blasphemous to the IETF on my first email, but the customer is way more > interested in a seamless interaction of his system components than > having IP temperature sensors.!!! Something I forgot to note in my > document which might be enlightening is that the Facility Director is > king of the facility domain, in the same regard the CTO is king of the > IT domain. These guys typically don't talk much and many times > (currently about 50%) don't even want to be on the same network > infrastructure. I guess what I'm trying to say is the allure of IP > devices might be lost to the customer when you're selling a facility > management system. As BACnet is an application layer protocol, what that boils down to is ROLL routing needs to support its traffic pattern, along with any other patterns envisioned in the network. So I recommend making a traffic pattern requirement which covers BACnet. Again, you can have the justification before the requirement regarding BACnet. > 4. Chapter 11 was my weak attempt at trying to describe various > security scenarios along the continuum of commercial buildings. These > systems have to serve buildings ranging from a single tenant multi-story > office building, to pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities to military > installations. The security levels defined must then match the > application requirements at hand. These systems, by the way, are > typically 'shrink-wrapped' at the development center and tailored in the > field. One size fits all. They are not installed in a 'one off' > fashion. This means that the system must innately support the entire > gamut of requirements. They are then selected in the field to match the > customer requirements. > I hope this adds a touch more insight into the needs. Again, I realize > I overshot the mark, but thought it best to capture the entire picture > and whinny it down then to provide a brief outline that might miss the > salient points. Your approach is clear, and it doesn't hurt. Next step is to squeeze out the essentials without loosing the important justifications behind each requirement. Try out the subsection approach (which also lets you make a txt version!). - Zach > Hope to meet you in Dublin, > > Jerry > > > > > *Zach Shelby * > Sent by: roll-bounces@ietf.org > > 07/24/2008 08:07 AM > > > To > roll@ietf.org > cc > > Subject > [Roll] commercial-routing-reqs comments > > > > > > > > > Jerry et. al. > > First of all Jerry, welcome to the IETF. I'm sure you will be a huge > asset to ROLL (and 6lowpan). The IETF is full of fun-loving, t-shirt > wearing, Internet nerds, who drink plenty of beer, many of whom wish it > was still the 70s ;-) Just be sure not to wear a suit! > > Here are some comments on your draft. In general this is an awesome > handbook for commercial building automation, we just need to trim it > down to the essential routing issues. Maybe some of the other > requirements and ideas could be contributed to the application and > security drafts in 6lowpan? > > I like Chapter 3, I think i gives insight into how commercial building > automation is organized right now. Could the application areas (HVAC, > Fire etc.) be expanded a bit more like in home-routing-reqs? One thing > to keep in mind in this chapter is that the flexibility provided by IP > in such a network may enable a flatter architecture than FMS - BC - ZC - > AC - Sensors/Actuators. Could this a section here be added to consider > how a future architecture using IP with ROLL routing might look? > > Chapter 4 and 5 are not needed in the draft. > > There are tons of requirements here. I would like to see only the > routing-related ones kept. Maybe like 20 requirements max? Here is a > list of what I think belongs: > > Chapter 8: > > Requirements 3, 5, 6, 9 (make a generic traffic pattern requirement > rather than a BACnet specific one), 17 > > Chapter 9: > > Requirements 20, 23. > > Chapter 10: > > Requirements 27, 30, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 47, 48, 50, 51. Note 50 > and 51 should use the oposite logic and limit those tables to a maximum > rather than a minimum which constrains the routing algorithm to scale > better - O(D) as in levis-protocols-survey. > > Not sure what to do with Chapter 11.. boil it down to just a few > security requirements somehow? > > Hope this helps, > Zach > > -- > Zach Shelby | Head of Research | +358 40 7796297 > Sensinode Ltd. www.sensinode.com > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > -- Zach Shelby | Head of Research | +358 40 7796297 Sensinode Ltd. www.sensinode.com _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From roll-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jul 27 08:03:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5E63A697E; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:03:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EF428C120 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:03:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.832 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.832 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.370, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, MPART_ALT_DIFF=0.739, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hTwwC+2Zbl4B for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC2F3A67C0 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:02:58 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,259,1215388800"; d="scan'208,217";a="15633880" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2008 15:03:03 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m6RF33KB007066 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:03:03 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6RF33wg010947 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:03:03 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:03:03 -0400 Received: from 10.61.64.250 ([10.61.64.250]) by xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.112]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:03:03 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.11.0.080522 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:03:01 +0200 From: JP Vasseur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: If you have not yet sent your slides, please do so. Thanks JP. Thread-Index: Acjv+dzHeGanOnKUTEi+xFrPwvbzeQ== Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2008 15:03:03.0409 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE36D610:01C8EFF9] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=584; t=1217170983; x=1218034983; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jvasseur@cisco.com; z=From:=20JP=20Vasseur=20 |Subject:=20If=20you=20have=20not=20yet=20sent=20your=20sli des,=20please=20do=20so.=20Thanks=20JP. |Sender:=20 |To:=20; bh=8FBvMIdC4DRSK1v54UOWq14hcxDUqJCX91y9YiWROJU=; b=iSU5lgmORohxt2Lh0TKfxOrIBPMIU9u7zZQRUALs+ByevsewBQg3ZLyIZi syQL0L4UeC6i5LLyjqcS1Mm3Sj+4glBGpsW9FpF44iTGz8NtF8qNDXsi+pue Y9Uh7kwxz7; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jvasseur@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Subject: [Roll] If you have not yet sent your slides, please do so. Thanks JP. X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1510563193==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============1510563193== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3300022982_190714" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3300022982_190714 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --B_3300022982_190714 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable If you have not yet sent your slides, please do so. Thanks JP.</TITL= E> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt= '></SPAN></FONT> </BODY> </HTML> --B_3300022982_190714-- --===============1510563193== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1510563193==-- From roll-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 29 05:43:49 2008 Return-Path: <roll-bounces@ietf.org> X-Original-To: roll-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-roll-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206733A694A; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:43:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6327E3A6A93 for <roll@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:43:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.334 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.334 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ffi4RsNqA2Y for <roll@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from email1.etri.info (email1.etri.re.kr [129.254.16.131]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945263A68EB for <roll@ietf.org>; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from youngoxbook ([129.254.252.217]) by email1.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:44:46 +0900 From: "Soyoung Hwang" <soyoung@etri.re.kr> To: <roll@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:43:57 +0900 Message-ID: <010401c8f178$c4af4710$4e0dd530$@re.kr> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: AcjxeMHCh3ZZ6E3RQ+WF+YiG9Ol2Gg== Content-Language: ko X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2008 12:44:46.0229 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1892450:01C8F178] Subject: [Roll] jabber room for ROLL X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll>, <mailto:roll-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/roll> List-Post: <mailto:roll@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:roll-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll>, <mailto:roll-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1045127723==" Sender: roll-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: roll-bounces@ietf.org 여러 부분으로 구성된 MIME 형식의 메시지입니다. --===============1045127723== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0105_01C8F1C4.3496EF10" Content-Language: ko 여러 부분으로 구성된 MIME 형식의 메시지입니다. ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01C8F1C4.3496EF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! Isn't there a jabber room for ROLL? Soyoung ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01C8F1C4.3496EF10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 08.00.0681.000"> <TITLE>[Roll] jabber room for ROLL

Hello!

Isn’t there a jabber = room for ROLL?

Soyoung

------=_NextPart_000_0105_01C8F1C4.3496EF10-- --===============1045127723== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --===============1045127723==--