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and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001d2ef705cfba7b48" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] MOPex updates and extended control option query X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2021 13:52:08 -0000 --0000000000001d2ef705cfba7b48 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 14:02, wrote: > Hello Rahul, > > > > I=E2=80=99m digging up open items regarding our active documents., sorry = if this > comes up very late. > > I=E2=80=99m curious about your proposal for an option =E2=80=9Cfor the no= de to not join > the network at all (not even as 6LN) if a control option is not understoo= d=E2=80=9D. > > Do you have a use case for it that you could share? > I do not have a use-case for this. Michael also pointed out this on the repo if this is necessary. I think this point was raised during one of the interims (but I do not know exactly who raised this point). Thank you for bringing this up. > I fail to see in which circumstance the node should not be allowed to joi= n > as a leaf node? > > Thanks > > > > Dominique > > > > > > *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Rahul Jadhav > *Sent:* mercredi 31 mars 2021 16:25 > *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > *Subject:* [Roll] MOPex updates and extended control option query > > > > Hello All, > > > > The MOPex draft is refreshed with just editorial changes in this version. > > > > However, I would like to raise one point that Pascal made during the IETF > 110 session. > > > > Currently, the MOPex draft extends the RPL control options with certain > flags to handle cases where the control option is not understood by the > node: > > J-flag: Join only as 6LN > > C-flag: copy option as-is even if not understood > > I-flag: Ignore message altogether. > > > > We could have an option for the node to not join the network at all (not > even as 6LN) if a control option is not understood. > > Any feedback on this would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Rahul > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 19:43 > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-roll-mopex-03.txt > To: Michael Richardson , Pascal Thubert < > pthubert@cisco.com>, Rahul Arvind Jadhav > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-roll-mopex-03.txt > has been successfully submitted by Rahul Arvind Jadhav and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-roll-mopex > Revision: 03 > Title: Mode of Operation extension > Document date: 2021-03-31 > Group: roll > Pages: 9 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-mopex-03.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-mopex/ > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-mopex > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-mopex-03 > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-mopex= -03 > > Abstract: > RPL allows different mode of operations which allows nodes to have a > consensus on the basic primitives that must be supported to join the > network. The MOP field in [RFC6550] is of 3 bits and is fast > depleting. This document extends the MOP for future use. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > --0000000000001d2ef705cfba7b48 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 a= t 14:02, <dominique.bart= hel@orange.com> wrote:

Hello Rahul,

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m digging up open i= tems regarding our active documents., sorry if this comes up very late.<= /u>

I=E2=80=99m curious about you= r proposal for an option =E2=80=9Cfor the node to not join the network at a= ll (not even as 6LN) if a control option is not understood=E2=80=9D.

Do you have a use case for it= that you could share?


I do not have a use-case for this. Michael also pointed o= ut this on the repo if this is necessary. I think this point was rais= ed during one of the interims (but I do not know exactly who raised this po= int).

Thank you for bringing t= his up.

=C2=A0

I fail to see in which circum= stance the node should not be allowed to join as a leaf node?=

Thanks

=C2=A0

Dominique

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Jadhav
Sent: mercredi 31 mars 2021 16:25
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: [Roll] MOPex updates and extended control option query

=C2=A0

Hello All,

=C2=A0

The MOPex draft is refreshed=C2=A0with just editorial change= s in this version.

=C2=A0

However, I would like to raise one point that Pascal made du= ring the IETF 110 session.

=C2=A0

Currently, the MOPex draft extends the RPL control=C2=A0opti= ons with certain flags to handle cases where the control option is not unde= rstood by the node:

J-flag: Join only as 6LN

C-flag: copy option as-is even if not understood

I-flag: Ignore message altogether.

=C2=A0

We could have an option for the node to not join the network= at all (not even as 6LN) if a control option is not understood.<= /u>

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Rahul

=C2=A0

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 19:43
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-roll-mopex-03.txt
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>, Rah= ul Arvind Jadhav <rahul.ietf@gmail.com>




A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-roll-mopex-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Rahul Arvind Jadhav and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-roll-mopex
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mode of Operation extension
Document date:=C2=A0 2021-03-31
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 roll
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-mopex-03.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-mopex/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-mopex
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra= ft-ietf-roll-mopex-03
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.i= etf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-mopex-03

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RPL allows different mode of operations which allows nodes to = have a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0consensus on the basic primitives that must be supported to jo= in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0network.=C2=A0 The MOP field in [RFC6550] is of 3 bits and is = fast
=C2=A0 =C2=A0depleting.=C2=A0 This document extends the MOP for future use.=




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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--0000000000001d2ef705cfba7b48-- From nobody Fri Nov 5 12:29:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF8F3A0C74; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:29:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=googlemail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vwy0chdXxd-b; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x936.google.com (mail-ua1-x936.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::936]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8B423A0C75; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x936.google.com with SMTP id az37so18970073uab.13; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ecolKgRvcHJRxHfkG/F0gQNdG7f4BOEkBpZqfdbA/oU=; b=ZqoLhKxxj24rSPOXBMJef91yDComlDRU7QNje2XIUA9OfwgiaV62QRhvPCc8fzaWFL IQa8atQKBBc6CP7zL3l3gAEvizvkE5Uk70ZbpiidrbEnw99SSMUZXZGNJ8vTwyxUmmPP z6fpLUhT/iLKdaoTpDdeKfsvcvI7E8+r4nrdXgfzV7LPK8HQOrgJb5WzM45dKbuhQx4R Y6ioDiNk9KYXdTEUBp0GegAMC5JAHtw89AyEQiAPkpXjRVR8XDnJtD4sam//clxTxwcj 2m6dQOTcOHKhInpHqXVeb7asHAO/pZ522+Jl/t8BdNd9WYLtWGZL3XGKs7ls7eO75ghn RKpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ecolKgRvcHJRxHfkG/F0gQNdG7f4BOEkBpZqfdbA/oU=; b=AFvvssLfjC+jbqAOJNeLYdNA6X8YQjipwde3DsV+LWHktTj92ZRZidMpxH4ov4LF+Y HQar6cvkcNzuA3WaNPFvwP9SBjwBWO316TA97wtPs0Z6TUSGK7nyIJOrwbFRnOIq00tc D7sP0W2AU/YR9btBmoVcUZA26tTro6mlS+/JYItEgsdfcGmJW4AV1dIw0jB1NH+Fvh3W Q+BFvoyQ/coTN7tsA0YDVGEKNPMKO29/OD0+oVo8B1xtFnvh2qF6V3mx5yH2aKPbxShP sQgFaHX9fQNhANnQpW6W9T7Iap0JA0dl6qeDKLalAZdy7e0PfndVo4/TkhMXxdYHYcU1 bwkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530lxjnYLCwP7Z1znsfIJKjfTRSzS/l/Fq7am+YtCy44ZI07LdPC gkrabnmpDc+bO7kOWhM2esEeE2alOolBQl+IMjpAawgjxts= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwC8CfymAQ4BFnbsyIMuyLvwadnwItOD1z3iWqf/gxCTeKfn7syEoU4AMeyJTzxzdWlgFgfwywKMf+k4X0Ukhg= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:3813:: with SMTP id x19mr51048459uav.56.1636140541119; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 12:29:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161886431878.23690.10633892549620498188@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Ines Robles Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 21:28:24 +0200 Message-ID: To: John Scudder via Datatracker Cc: John Scudder , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , The IESG , roll-chairs , draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl@ietf.org, Charlie Perkins , Alvaro Retana Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c18f0d05d00fa739" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] John Scudder's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 19:29:10 -0000 --000000000000c18f0d05d00fa739 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello John, Thank you for your comments to improve the document. We believe that v11 addresses your DISCUSS points, please let us know. Please find comments below corresponding to version 11 in [v11] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A lot of effort has clearly gone into this work, thank you. I do have one topic I want to DISCUSS, as it seriously impacted the readability of the document from my point of view. I don=E2=80=99t anticipate that it will be very diff= icult to resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to clarity and not to anything fundamental. My chief difficulty with the document is placing it in context. No hints ar= e given to the reader as to what the expected network environment is. I think it would be almost sufficient to say, for example =E2=80=9Cthe network environ= ment is assumed to be the same as described in RFC 6550, Section 1=E2=80=9D for exa= mple, but without that hint and without a strong background in ROLL, I found myself struggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particular lead me to believe the expected environment looks similar to a classic ISP network =E2=80=94 a collection o= f nodes connected by point-to-point links. If this isn=E2=80=99t correct (and I bet= it=E2=80=99s not) that may have led me into incorrect assumptions, which may be reflected in my other comments below. [v11] Page 3, new text: The network environment that is considered in this document is assumed to be the same as described in Section 1 of [RFC6550] . Further, it=E2=80=99s not stated anywhere whether AODV-RPL is intended to s= tand alone as its own routing protocol, or to be viewed as an extension of RPL. In the former case, it seems the document is lacking details that are present in RFC 6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is the case, but a clear statement to= that effect seems indicated. [v11] Page 3, new text: AODV-RPL reuses and extends the core RPL functionality to support routes with bidirectional asymmetric links ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Section 1: Reply. AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in particular, flagging Route Errors, blacklisting unidirectional links, multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. Your use of language is entirely up to you, but I feel obliged to point out that there=E2=80=99s been a lot of discussion in the IETF community recentl= y about use of language that raises sensitive points, and about the term =E2=80=9Cblack= listing=E2=80=9D in particular. I understand that this is the only place in the document the term appears, and since it refers to AODV you can=E2=80=99t just use another ter= m, but placing it in quotation marks might make it clear that it=E2=80=99s referri= ng verbatim to the language of RFC 3561. [v11] (Page 3), new text: AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in particular, flagging Route Errors, "blacklisting" unidirectional links ([RFC3561 ]), multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. 2. Section 1: support for storing and non-storing modes. AODV adds basic messages RREQ and RREP as part of RPL DIO (DODAG Information Object) control Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2=80=9D? [v11] Page 3: It was changed to AODV-RPL adds basic messages 3. Section 2: Symmetric route The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers. Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, if multi-access links are part of th= e mix, as I imagine they may be?) [v11] Page 5, new text: Symmetric route: The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers and over the same links. 4. Section 4.1: OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREQ-DIO message. A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREQ option, Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6 addresses"? Is it even necessary t= o restate this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a clearer requirement: DODAGID: 128-bit IPv6 address set by a DODAG root that uniquely identifies a DODAG. The DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv6 address belonging to the DODAG root. [v11] Page 6-New text: OrigNode selects one of its IPv6 addresses and sets it in the DODAGID field of the RREQ-DIO message. 5. Section S4.1: TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion is equal to the MaxRank. Not less than or equal, right? Strict equality to MaxRank is required? [v11] Page 8, new text: TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion is less than or equal to the MaxRank. 6. Section 4.2: TargNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DIO message. A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option, Same as #4. [v11] Page 8, new text: TargNode sets one of its IPv6 addresses in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DIO message. 7. Section 4.2: Address Vector Only present when the H bit is set to 0. For an asymmetric route, the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the route that the RREP-DIO has passed. The first time I read through this, I didn=E2=80=99t understand it at all. = On re-reading, I think you=E2=80=99re using the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D i= n two different ways in the same sentence, the first time to mean =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the sense = of an object in the protocol, the second time in the more casual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path throu= gh the network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80=99s right, I suggest rewriting the second i= nstance, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents the IPv6 addresses of the path through the network the RREP-DIO has Traversed.=E2=80=9D [v11] Page 10, new text: Address Vector Only present when the H bit is set to 0. For an asymmetric route, the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the path through the network the RREP-DIO has passed. Passed was not changed to Traversed. Also, as in point #4, is it right to say *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn=E2=80= =99t any given node have various IPv6 addresses? So maybe just lose the definite article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents IPv6 addresses of the path=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=9D? 8. Section 4.3: r A one-bit reserved field. This field MUST be initialized to zero by the sender and MUST be ignored by the receiver. The figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume the = field labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D should be relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D? [v11] Page 11: changed to X. 9. Section 5: Figure 4. If an intermediate router sends out RREQ-DIO with the S bit set to 1, then all the one-hop links on the route from the OrigNode O to this router meet the requirements of route discovery, On first reading I didn=E2=80=99t understand this. Having read the whole do= cument, I now get it (I think!). Possibly changing =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2=80= =9Chave met=E2=80=9D would have been enough to get me past my initial befuddlement. [v11] Page 11: changed to =E2=80=9Chas met=E2=80=9D 10. Section 5: The criteria used to determine whether or not each link is symmetric is beyond the scope of the document. For instance, intermediate Should be =E2=80=9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 is beyond", or "criteria =E2=80=A6 a= re beyond", depending on whether you want singular or plural. [v11] Page12, Not Corrected. [Can this be addressed by the RFC Editor?] 11. Section 5: routers can use local information (e.g., bit rate, bandwidth, number of cells used in 6tisch) I wouldn=E2=80=99t have minded a reference for 6tisch. [v11]Page 12, reference added, new text: ...cells used in 6tisch [RFC9030 ])... 12. Section 5: Upon receiving a RREQ-DIO with the S bit set to 1, a node determines whether this one-hop link can be used symmetrically, i.e., both the two directions meet the requirements of data transmission. If the RREQ-DIO arrives over an interface that is not known to be symmetric, or is known to be asymmetric, the S bit is set to 0. If the S bit arrives already set to be '0', it is set to be '0' on retransmission The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D seems misused here. I guess you m= ean something like =E2=80=9Cwhen the RREQ-DIO is propagated=E2=80=9D. [v11] Page 12, changed to propagated: ..when the RREQ-DIO is propagated. 13. Section 5: Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Received Signal Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric in terms of link quality is given in using an averaging technique. This sentence needs a rewrite to make it grammatical. It works up until "is given in using an averaging technique=E2=80=9D. [v11] Page 13, new text: =E2=80=9C Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected Number of Transmissions (ETX) and downstream Received Signal Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric in terms of link quality using an averaging technique.=E2=80=9D 14. Section 6.2.1: If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 1, the router MUST determine whether each direction of the link (by which the RREQ- DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Function. In case that the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) direction of the link does not satisfy the Objective Function, the link can't be used symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DIO to be sent out MUST be set as 0. If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0, the router MUST determine into the upward direction (towards the OrigNode) of the link. The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99t make sense. [v11] Page 14, Step 1 section was re-written, new text:=E2=80=9DStep 1: The router MUST first determine whether to propagate the RREQ-DIO. It does this by determining whether or not the downstream direction of the incoming link satisfies the Objective Function (OF). If not the RREQ-DIO MUST be dropped, and the following steps are not processed. Otherwise, the router MUST join the RREQ-Instance and prepare to propagate the RREQ-DIO. The upstream neighbor router that transmitted the received RREQ-DIO is selected as the preferred parent.=E2=80=9D 15. Section 6.2.1: If the router is an intermediate router, then it transmits a RREQ- DIO via link-local multicast; On what interface? Routers generally can have multiple interfaces. Again, this is a place a clear description of the network environment might have helped= . [v11] Page 15, Step 4 new text as follows: =E2=80=9CStep 4: The router checks whether one of its addresses is included in one of the ART Options. If so, this router is one of the TargNodes. Otherwise, it is an intermediate router. If the router is an intermediate router, then it transmits the RREQ-DIO via link-local multicast; if the H bit is set to 0, the intermediate router MUST include the address of the interface receiving the RREQ-DIO into the address vector. Otherwise, the router is TargNode; if it was not already associated with the RREQ-Instance, it prepares and transmits a RREP-DIO (Section 6.3 ). If, on the other hand, TargNode was already associated with the RREQ-Instance, it takes no further action and does not send an RREP-DIO.=E2=80=9D 16. Section 6.2.2: If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ- Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate router to the others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other targets. In this case, before rebroadcasting the RREQ-DIO The use of the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is this = =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D in the RF sense? Again, this is a place a clear description of the network environmen= t might have helped. [v11] Page 16, rebroadcasting changed to transmitting, new text states: =E2= =80=9C If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ- Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate router to the others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other targets. In this case, before transmitting the RREQ-DIO via link- local multicast, a TargNode MUST delete the Target Option encapsulating its own address, so that downstream routers with higher Rank values do not try to create a route to this TargNode.=E2=80=9D 17. Section 6.2.2: send out any RREQ-DIO. For the purposes of determining the intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any RREQ-DIO message with different ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank is ignored. It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last sentence goes with the previous an= d if so, how. Does it even relate to multiple targets? Also, different from what? If it has the same ART Options (same as what?) is it *not* ignored? [v11] Page 16, new text: =E2=80=9C ...If the intersection is empty, it means that all the targets have been reached, and the router MUST NOT transmit any RREQ-DIO. For the purposes of determining the intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested for a given RREQ-Instance. Any incoming RREQ-DIO message having multiple ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank than the Rank of the stored targets is ignored.=E2=80=9D 18. Section 6.3.1: implementation-specific and out of scope. If the implementation selects the symmetric route, and the L bit is not 0, the TargNode MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a symmetric route with a lower Rank. The value of RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of the time duration determined by the L bit. It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it=E2=80=99s an L field. [v11] L bit was changed to L field in the document 19. Section 6.3.2: multicast until the OrigNode is reached or MaxRank is exceeded. The TargNode MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a route with a lower Rank. The value of RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of the time duration determined by the L bit. Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, what if L is zero? Is RREP_WAIT_TIME = set to infinity, as the text implies? Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL bit=E2=80=9D, as there are additio= nal instances I haven=E2=80=99t called out. [v11] L bit was changed to L field in the document 20. Section 6.4: Step 4: If the receiver is the OrigNode, it can start transmitting the application data to TargNode along the path as provided in RREP- Instance, and processing for the RREP-DIO is complete. Otherwise, in case of an asymmetric route, the intermediate router MUST include the address of the interface receiving the RREP-DIO into the address vector, and then transmit the RREP-DIO via link-local multicast. In case of a symmetric route, the RREP-DIO message is As with #15: on what interface(s)? [v11] Page 19, Step 4 first paragraph remains the same, Charlie made a question: =E2=80=9C Are we assuming a single interface?=E2= =80=9D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RESPONSE to Comment 20: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AODV-RPL routers can have multiple router interfaces. Per-node configuration of "RREP-DIO transmission interfaces" is an administrative feature which is beyond the scope of the document. 21. Section 10: fake AODV-RPL route discoveries. In this type of scenario, RPL's preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. What type of scenario is that? [V11] Page 22, new text: When rogue routers might be present, RPL's preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. 22. Appendix A: s/pakcet/packet/ [V11] Page 25, fixed. 23. General remark: Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t a required sectio= n I was a little surprised not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usually present. Your call of course. [v11] Added Thank you very much, Ines. On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:58 AM Charlie Perkins < charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote: > Hello John, > > It's taken a while for me to get to this, please excuse the delay. I > have some followup to your comments interspersed below. > > On 4/19/2021 1:31 PM, John Scudder via Datatracker wrote: > > John Scudder has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > A lot of effort has clearly gone into this work, thank you. I do have > one topic > > I want to DISCUSS, as it seriously impacted the readability of the > document > > from my point of view. I don=E2=80=99t anticipate that it will be very = difficult > to > > resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to clarity and not to anything > fundamental. > > > > My chief difficulty with the document is placing it in context. No hint= s > are > > given to the reader as to what the expected network environment is. I > think it > > would be almost sufficient to say, for example =E2=80=9Cthe network env= ironment > is > > assumed to be the same as described in RFC 6550, Section 1=E2=80=9D for= example, > but > > without that hint and without a strong background in ROLL, I found myse= lf > > struggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particular lead me to believe the expect= ed > > environment looks similar to a classic ISP network =E2=80=94 a collecti= on of > nodes > > connected by point-to-point links. If this isn=E2=80=99t correct (and I= bet it=E2=80=99s > not) > > that may have led me into incorrect assumptions, which may be reflected > in my > > other comments below. > > > > Further, it=E2=80=99s not stated anywhere whether AODV-RPL is intended = to stand > alone > > as its own routing protocol, or to be viewed as an extension of RPL. In > the > > former case, it seems the document is lacking details that are present > in RFC > > 6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is the case, but a clear statemen= t to that > effect > > seems indicated. > How about this text: > Routing Protocol for Low-Power and Lossy Networks (RPL) [RFC6550] is > an IPv6 distance vector routing protocol designed to support multiple > traffic flows through a root-based Destination-Oriented Directed > Acyclic Graph (DODAG). Typically, a router does not have routing > information for most other routers. Consequently, for traffic > between routers within the DODAG (i.e., Point-to-Point (P2P) traffic) > data packets either have to traverse the root in non-storing mode, or > traverse a common ancestor in storing mode. Such P2P traffic is > thereby likely to traverse longer routes and may suffer severe > congestion near the root (for more information see [RFC6997], > [RFC6998]). The network environment that is considered in this docume= nt > assumed to be the same as described in Section 1 of [RFC6550]. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > 1. Section 1: > > > > Reply. AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- = in > > particular, flagging Route Errors, blacklisting unidirectional link= s, > > multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. > > > > Your use of language is entirely up to you, but I feel obliged to point > out > > that there=E2=80=99s been a lot of discussion in the IETF community rec= ently > about use > > of language that raises sensitive points, and about the term > =E2=80=9Cblacklisting=E2=80=9D in > > particular. I understand that this is the only place in the document th= e > term > > appears, and since it refers to AODV you can=E2=80=99t just use another= term, but > > placing it in quotation marks might make it clear that it=E2=80=99s ref= erring > verbatim > > to the language of RFC 3561. > > This is an evolving issue. I am fine with using quotes but otherwise > maintaining consistent terminology. For instance, > > AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in > particular, flagging Route Errors, "blacklisting" unidirectional lin= ks > [RFC3561], multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. > > If there is an official list of terms to search for please let us know. > > > > > 2. Section 1: > > > > support for storing and non-storing modes. AODV adds basic messages > > RREQ and RREP as part of RPL DIO (DODAG Information Object) control > > > > Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2=80=9D? > Yes, will fix. > > > > > 3. Section 2: > > > > Symmetric route > > The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers. > > > > Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, if multi-access links are part o= f > the > > mix, as I imagine they may be?) > > The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers and > over > the same links. > > 4. Section 4.1: > > > > OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREQ-DIO > > message. A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREQ option, > > > > Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6 addresses"? Is it even necessa= ry to > restate > > this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a clearer requirement: > > > > DODAGID: 128-bit IPv6 address set by a DODAG root that uniquely > > identifies a DODAG. The DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv6 > > address belonging to the DODAG root. > > I'm not quite sure what is requested. Should it be "OrigNode sets the > DODAGID field", relying on the definition provided in RFC 6550? Should > it be "OrigNode sets one of its routable IPv6 address in the DODAGID > field"? > Honestly, I thought the meaning was clear. Unless there is an > objection, I reckon we will use the latter wording. > > > > > 5. Section S4.1: > > > > TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion > > is equal to the MaxRank. > > > > Not less than or equal, right? Strict equality to MaxRank is required? > The existing text isn't good. Instead, > > TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion > is less than the MaxRank. > > > > 6. Section 4.2: > > > > TargNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DIO > > message. A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option, > > > > Same as #4. > > > > 7. Section 4.2: > > > > Address Vector > > Only present when the H bit is set to 0. For an asymmetric route= , > > the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the route tha= t > > the RREP-DIO has passed. > > > > The first time I read through this, I didn=E2=80=99t understand it at a= ll. On > > re-reading, I think you=E2=80=99re using the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80= =9D in two different ways > in the > > same sentence, the first time to mean =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the se= nse of an object > in the > > protocol, the second time in the more casual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path t= hrough the > > network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80=99s right, I suggest rewriting the seco= nd instance, as > in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 > > represents the IPv6 addresses of the path through the network the > RREP-DIO has > > traversed.=E2=80=9D > > > > Also, as in point #4, is it right to say *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn= =E2=80=99t > any > > given node have various IPv6 addresses? So maybe just lose the definite > > article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents IPv6 addresses of the path= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D? > > Good point. We will use your formulation. > > > > > 8. Section 4.3: > > > > r > > A one-bit reserved field. This field MUST be initialized to zero > > by the sender and MUST be ignored by the receiver. > > > > The figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume = the field labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D > should be > > relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D? > Actually, the description should refer to an "X" field, not an "r" > field. We will update. > > > > > > 9. Section 5: > > > > Figure 4. If an intermediate router sends out RREQ-DIO with the S > > bit set to 1, then all the one-hop links on the route from the > > OrigNode O to this router meet the requirements of route discovery, > > > > On first reading I didn=E2=80=99t understand this. Having read the whol= e > document, I > > now get it (I think!). Possibly changing =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2= =80=9Chave met=E2=80=9D would have > been > > enough to get me past my initial befuddlement. > > Yes, that's better. > > > > > 10. Section 5: > > > > The criteria used to determine whether or not each link is symmetri= c > > is beyond the scope of the document. For instance, intermediate > > > > Should be =E2=80=9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 is beyond", or "criteria =E2=80= =A6 are beyond", depending > on > > whether you want singular or plural. > We will use "criteria =E2=80=A6 are beyond". > > > > > 11. Section 5: > > > > routers can use local information (e.g., bit rate, bandwidth, number > > of cells used in 6tisch) > > > > I wouldn=E2=80=99t have minded a reference for 6tisch. > No problem. > > > > > 12. Section 5: > > > > Upon receiving a RREQ-DIO with the S bit set to 1, a node determine= s > > whether this one-hop link can be used symmetrically, i.e., both the > > two directions meet the requirements of data transmission. If the > > RREQ-DIO arrives over an interface that is not known to be symmetri= c, > > or is known to be asymmetric, the S bit is set to 0. If the S bit > > arrives already set to be '0', it is set to be '0' on retransmissio= n > > > > The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D seems misused here. I guess y= ou mean something > like > > =E2=80=9Cwhen the RREQ-DIO is propagated=E2=80=9D. > That is better. We will use that. > > > > > 13. Section 5: > > > > Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected > > Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Received Signal > > Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric > > in terms of link quality is given in using an averaging technique. > > > > This sentence needs a rewrite to make it grammatical. It works up until > "is > > given in using an averaging technique=E2=80=9D. > How about: > Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected > Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Received Signal > Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric > in terms of link quality using an averaging technique. > > > > > > 14. Section 6.2.1: > > > > If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 1, the router MUS= T > > determine whether each direction of the link (by which the RREQ- > > DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Function. In case that > > the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) direction of the link > > does not satisfy the Objective Function, the link can't be used > > symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DIO to be sent out MUST > > be set as 0. If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0, > > the router MUST determine into the upward direction (towards the > > OrigNode) of the link. > > > > The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99t make sense. > How about: > ... If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0, > the router MUST determine the upward direction (towards the > OrigNode) of the link. > > > > 15. Section 6.2.1: > > > > If the router is an intermediate router, then it transmits a RREQ= - > > DIO via link-local multicast; > > > > On what interface? Routers generally can have multiple interfaces. > Again, this > > is a place a clear description of the network environment might have > helped. > > The link-local multicast should go out over all local interfaces. > > > > > 16. Section 6.2.2: > > > > If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ- > > Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate router to the > > others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other > > targets. In this case, before rebroadcasting the RREQ-DIO > > > > The use of the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is th= is =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D in > the RF > > sense? Again, this is a place a clear description of the network > environment > > might have helped. > This needs to be reformulated to avoid suggesting anything about RF > broadcast. TBD. > > > > > 17. Section 6.2.2: > > > > send out any RREQ-DIO. For the purposes of determining the > > intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate > > router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested > > associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any RREQ-DIO message with > > different ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank is > > ignored. > > > > It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last sentence goes with the previou= s and if > so, > > how. Does it even relate to multiple targets? Also, different from what= ? > If it > > has the same ART Options (same as what?) is it *not* ignored? > How about: > ..... For the purposes of > determining the > intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate > router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested > associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any incoming RREQ-DIO message havin= g > multiple ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank than the > Rank of > the stored targets is ignored. > > > > > 18. Section 6.3.1: > > > > implementation-specific and out of scope. If the implementation > > selects the symmetric route, and the L bit is not 0, the TargNode MA= Y > > delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TIME to await > > a symmetric route with a lower Rank. The value of RREP_WAIT_TIME is > > set by default to 1/4 of the time duration determined by the L bit. > > > > It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it=E2=80=99s an L field. > Good point! > > > > > 19. Section 6.3.2: > > > > multicast until the OrigNode is reached or MaxRank is exceeded. The > > TargNode MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration > > RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a route with a lower Rank. The value of > > RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of the time duration > > determined by the L bit. > > > > Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, what if L is zero? Is RREP_WAIT_T= IME set to > > infinity, as the text implies? > Thanks for pointing this out. We need to be explicit about it. I don't > think the RREP_WAIT_TIME should ever be zero or infinity. But, if it > were, the implementations would still be interoperable in a sense. Do > we really want to get into exactly what wait times make sense in this > context? > > > > > > Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL bit=E2=80=9D, as there are add= itional instances > I > > haven=E2=80=99t called out. > > > > 20. Section 6.4: > > > > Step 4: > > > > If the receiver is the OrigNode, it can start transmitting the > > application data to TargNode along the path as provided in RREP- > > Instance, and processing for the RREP-DIO is complete. Otherwis= e, > > in case of an asymmetric route, the intermediate router MUST > > include the address of the interface receiving the RREP-DIO into > > the address vector, and then transmit the RREP-DIO via link-loca= l > > multicast. In case of a symmetric route, the RREP-DIO message i= s > > > > As with #15: on what interface(s)? > It should go out to all the neighbors over multiple interfaces if > necessary. > > > > > 21. Section 10: > > > > fake AODV-RPL route discoveries. In this type of scenario, RPL's > > preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL > > route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. > > > > What type of scenario is that? > > "In this type of scenario" -> "When rogue routers might be present" > > > > > 22. Appendix A: > > > > s/pakcet/packet/ > Check. > > > > 23. General remark: > > > > Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t a required se= ction I was a little > surprised > > not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usually present. Your call of cour= se. > Acknowledgements are due to a lot of people - thanks for the reminder! > > Naturally Yours, > Charlie P. > > --000000000000c18f0d05d00fa739 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Jo= hn,

Thank you for your comments to improve the docu= ment. We believe that v11 addresses your DISCUSS points, please let us know= .=C2=A0

=
Please find comments below correspond= ing to version 11 in [v11]=C2=A0

---------------------= -------------------------------------------------

DISCUSS:

--------------------------------------------------------= --------------


A= lot of effort has clearly gone into this work, thank you. I do have one to= pic

I want to DISCUS= S, as it seriously impacted the readability of the document

from my point of view. I don=E2=80= =99t anticipate that it will be very difficult to

resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to clarity= and not to anything fundamental.


My chief difficulty with the document is placing it in co= ntext. No hints are

= given to the reader as to what the expected network environment is. I think it

would be almost sufficient to say, for example =E2=80=9Cthe network environment is

assumed to be the same= as described in RFC 6550without that hint and without a strong background in RO= LL, I found myself

s= truggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particular lead me to believe the expected

environment looks simi= lar to a classic ISP network =E2=80=94 a collection of nodes

connected by point-to-point links.= If this isn=E2=80=99t correct (and I bet it=E2=80=99s not)

that may have led me into incorrect= assumptions, which may be reflected in my

other comments below.


[v11] Page 3, new text: <= /span>The n= etwork environment that is considered in this

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0document is = assumed to be the same as described in Section 1 of

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0[RFC= 6550].=C2=A0

=

Further, it=E2=80=99s = not stated anywhere whe= ther AODV-RPL is intended to stand alone

as its own routing protocol, or to be viewed as an ext= ension of RPL. In the

former case, it seems the do= cument is lacking details that are present in RFC

6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is the = case, but a clear statement to that effect

seems indicated.


[v11] Page 3, new text: AODV-RPL reuses and ex= tends the core RPL functionality to support

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0routes with b= idirectional asymmetric links




--------------------------------------------------= --------------------

COMMENT:

----------= ------------------------------------------------------------


=

= 1. Section 1:


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reply.=C2=A0 A= ODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0particular, flag= ging Route Errors, blacklisting unidirectional links,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0multihoming, and handli= ng unnumbered interfaces.


Your use of language is entirely up to you, but I feel obliged to= point out

that ther= e=E2=80=99s been a lot of discussion in the IETF community recently about u= se

of language that = raises sensitive points, and about the term =E2=80=9Cblacklisting=E2=80=9D = in

particular. I und= erstand that this is the only place in the document the term

appears, and since it refers to AO= DV you can=E2=80=99t just use another term, but

placing it in quotation marks might make it cle= ar that it=E2=80=99s referring verbatim

to the language of RFC 3561.


[v11] (Page 3), new text: =C2=A0AODV-RPL currently= omits some features compared to AODV -- in

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0particular, f= lagging Route Errors, "blacklisting" unidirectional

=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0links ([RFC3561]), multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces.=C2=A0=



2. Section 1:


=C2=A0=C2=A0support = for storing and non-storing modes.=C2=A0 AODV adds basic messages

=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ and RREP as = part of RPL DIO (DODAG Information Object) control


Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2= =80=9D?



[v11] Page 3: It was changed to AODV-RPL adds ba= sic messages



3. Section 2:


= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Symmetric route

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The upstream and downstre= am routes traverse the same routers.


Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, if multi-access= links are part of the

mix, as I imagine they may be?)


[v11] Page 5, new text: Symmetric route: The upstream and= downstream routes traverse the same routers and

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0over the same links.



4. Section 4.1:


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the D= ODAGID field of the RREQ-DIO

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exa= ctly one RREQ option,


Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6 addresses"? Is it even = necessary to restate

this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a clearer requirement:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0DODAGID: 1= 28-bit IPv6 address set by a DODAG root that uniquely

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0identifies a DODAG.=C2=A0 The DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv= 6

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0address belonging to the DODAG root.


[v11] Page 6-New text: OrigNode selects one of its IPv6 addresses and sets it = in the DODAGID

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0field of the RREQ-DIO message.


5. Section S4.1:<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0TargNode ca= n join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion

=C2=A0=C2=A0is equal to the MaxRank.=


Not less than o= r equal, right? Strict equality to MaxRank is required?


[v11] Page 8, ne= w text: TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0is less than or equal to the MaxRank.



6. Section 4.2:


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0TargNode sets it= s IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DIO

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREP-D= IO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option,


Same as #4.


[v11] Page 8, new text: TargNode = sets one of its IPv6 addresses in the DODAGID field of the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0RREP-DIO message.



7. Section 4.2:


=C2=A0=C2=A0Address Vector

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Only present when the H bit i= s set to 0.=C2=A0 For an asymmetric route,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the Address Vector r= epresents the IPv6 addresses of the route that

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the RREP-DIO has p= assed.


The first= time I read through this, I didn=E2=80=99t understand it at all. On=

re-reading, I think you=E2= =80=99re using the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in two different ways in th= e

same sentence, the= first time to mean =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the sense of an object in th= e

protocol, the seco= nd time in the more casual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path through the

<= p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><= span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ve= rtical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80= =99s right, I suggest rewriting the second instance, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80= =A6

represents the I= Pv6 addresses of the path through the network the RREP-DIO has

Traversed.=E2=80=9D

[<= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e= ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">v11] Page 10= , new text: Address Vector

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Only present when= the H bit is set to 0.=C2=A0 For an asymmetric route,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the path=

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0through the network the RREP-DIO has pa= ssed.


Passed was not changed to Traversed.=C2=A0



Also, as in point #4, is it right t= o say *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn=E2=80=99t any

given node have various IPv6 addresses? So may= be just lose the definite

article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents IPv6 addresses of the pa= th=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D?


8. Section 4.3:


=C2=A0=C2=A0r

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0A one-bit reserved field.=C2=A0 This field MU= ST be initialized to zero

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0by the sender and MUST be ignored by th= e receiver.


The = figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume the fiel= d labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D should be

relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D?


[v11] Page 11: ch= anged to X.


9. S= ection 5:


=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0Figure 4.=C2=A0 If an intermediate router sends out RREQ-DIO wi= th the S

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0bit set to 1, then all the one-hop links on the route from the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0OrigN= ode O to this router meet the requirements of route discovery,

On first reading I didn=E2= =80=99t understand this. Having read the whole document, I

now get it (I think!). Possibly chan= ging =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Chave met=E2=80=9D would have been

enough to get me past= my initial befuddlement.


[v11] Page 11: changed to =E2=80=9Chas met=E2= =80=9D


10. Secti= on 5:


=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0The criteria used to determine whether or not each link is symmetr= ic

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0is beyond the scope of the document.=C2=A0 For instance, intermediate


Should be =E2=80= =9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 is beyond", or "criteria =E2=80=A6 are bey= ond", depending on

whether you want singular or plural.


[v11] Page12, Not Correcte= d. [Can this be addressed by the RFC Editor?]



11. Section 5:=


=C2=A0=C2=A0routers ca= n use local information (e.g., bit rate, bandwidth, number

=C2=A0=C2=A0of cells used in 6tisch)=


I wouldn=E2=80= =99t have minded a reference for 6tisch.


[v11]Page 12, reference added, = new text: ...cells used in 6tisch [= RFC9030])...



12. Section 5:


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Upon receiving a RREQ-DIO with the S = bit set to 1, a node determines

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0whether this one-hop link can be used symmetr= ically, i.e., both the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0two directions meet the requirements of data transmiss= ion.=C2=A0 If the

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-DIO arrives over an interface that is not known to b= e symmetric,

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0or is known to be asymmetric, the S bit is set to 0.=C2=A0 If t= he S bit

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0arrives already set to be '0', it is set to be '0'= on retransmission


The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D seems misused here. I guess yo= u mean something like

[v11] Page 12, ch= anged to propagated: ..when the RREQ-DIO is propagated.


13. Section 5:


=C2=A0=C2=A0Appendix A describes an exam= ple method using the upstream Expected

=C2=A0=C2=A0Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and down= stream Received Signal

=C2=A0=C2=A0Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is sy= mmetric

=C2=A0=C2=A0= in terms of link quality is given in using an averaging technique.

This sentence needs a re= write to make it grammatical. It works up until "is

given in using an averaging techniqu= e=E2=80=9D.


[v11] Page 13, new text: =E2=80=9C Appendix = A describes an example method using the upstream Expected

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0Number of Transmissions (ETX) and downstream Received Signal Strength

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric i= n terms

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0of link quality using an averaging technique.=E2=80=9D=


14. Section 6.2= .1:


=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 1, the ro= uter MUST

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0determine whether each direction of the link (by which= the RREQ-

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Function.=C2= =A0 In case that

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) directi= on of the link

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0does not satisfy the Objective Function, the lin= k can't be used

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DIO= to be sent out MUST

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0be set as 0.=C2=A0 If the S bit in the recei= ved RREQ-DIO is set to 0,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the router MUST determine into the upwa= rd direction (towards the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0OrigNode) of the link.


The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99= t make sense.


[v11] Page 14, Step 1 section was re-written, new text:=E2= =80=9D=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The router MUST first dete= rmine whether to propagate the RREQ-DIO.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0It does this by determining whether or not the downstream

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0direction of the incoming link satisfies the Objective= Function

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0(OF).=C2=A0 If not the RREQ-DI= O MUST be dropped, and the following

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0ste= ps are not processed.=C2=A0 Otherwise, the router MUST join the

<= p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e= ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-Instance and prepare to propagate the RREQ-DIO= .=C2=A0 The upstream

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0neighbor router tha= t transmitted the received RREQ-DIO is selected

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0as the preferred parent.=E2=80=9D


15. Section 6.2.1:


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the router is = an intermediate router, then it transmits a RREQ-

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0DIO via link-lo= cal multicast;


O= n what interface? Routers generally can have multiple interfaces. Again, th= is

is a place a clea= r description of the network environment might have helped.


<= p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e= ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[v11] Page 1= 5, Step 4 new text as follows: =E2=80=9CStep 4:


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0The router checks whether one of its addresses is included in one<= /span>

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0of the ART Options.=C2=A0 If so, this r= outer is one of the TargNodes.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Otherwise= , it is an intermediate router.


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If t= he router is an intermediate router, then it transmits the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-DIO via link-local multicast; if the H bit is set= to 0, the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0intermediate router MUST incl= ude the address of the interface

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0receivi= ng the RREQ-DIO into the address vector.=C2=A0 Otherwise, the

=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0router is TargNode; if it was not already associate= d with the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-Instance, it prepares an= d transmits a RREP-DIO (Section 6.3).

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= If, on the other hand, TargNode was already associated with the

<= p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255);font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e= ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-Instance, it takes no further action and does = not send an

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREP-DIO.=E2=80=9D

16. Section 6.2.2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0If the OrigNo= de tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ-

=C2=A0=C2=A0Instance, one of the TargNod= es can be an intermediate router to the

=C2=A0=C2=A0others, therefore it MUST continue sending = RREQ-DIO to reach other

=C2=A0=C2=A0targets.=C2=A0 In this case, before rebroadcasting the RREQ= -DIO


The use of = the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is this =E2=80=9Cbro= adcast=E2=80=9D in the RF

sense? Again, this is a place a clear description of the network envi= ronment

might have h= elped.


[v11] Page 16, rebroadcasting changed to transmitting, new text s= tates: =E2=80=9C If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single = RREQ-

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediat= e router to the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0others, therefore it MUST continue sending= RREQ-DIO to reach other

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0targets.=C2=A0 In this case, befo= re transmitting the RREQ-DIO via link-

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0local multicast, a = TargNode MUST delete the Target Option

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0encapsulating its o= wn address, so that downstream routers with higher

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Rank va= lues do not try to create a route to this TargNode.=E2=80=9D


17. Section 6.2.2:


<= p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><= span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ve= rtical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0=C2=A0send out any RREQ-D= IO.=C2=A0 For the purposes of determining the

=C2=A0=C2=A0intersection with previous incoming R= REQ-DIOs, the intermediate

=C2=A0=C2=A0router maintains a record of the targets that have been = requested

=C2=A0=C2= =A0associated with the RREQ-Instance.=C2=A0 Any RREQ-DIO message with

=C2=A0=C2=A0different ART= Options coming from a router with higher Rank is

=C2=A0=C2=A0ignored.


It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last= sentence goes with the previous and if so,

how. Does it even relate to multiple targets? Also= , different from what? If it

has the same ART Options (same as what?) is it *not* ignored?


[= v11] Page 16, new text: =E2=80=9C ...If the intersection is empty, it

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0means that all the targets have been reached, and the router MUST = NOT

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0transmit any RREQ-DIO.=C2=A0 For the purposes of deter= mining the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, = the intermediate

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0router maintains a record of the targets = that have been requested for

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0a given RREQ-Instance.=C2=A0 = Any incoming RREQ-DIO message having multiple

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0ART Options = coming from a router with higher Rank than the Rank of

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the= stored targets is ignored.=E2=80=9D


18. Section 6.3.1:


=C2=A0=C2=A0implementation-specific and out of scope.= =C2=A0 If the implementation

=C2=A0=C2=A0selects the symmetric route, and the L bit is not 0, t= he TargNode MAY

=C2= =A0=C2=A0delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TIME to awa= it

=C2=A0=C2=A0a sym= metric route with a lower Rank.=C2=A0 The value of RREP_WAIT_TIME is=

=C2=A0=C2=A0set by default= to 1/4 of the time duration determined by the L bit.


It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it= =E2=80=99s an L field.


[v11] L bit was changed to L field in the documen= t


19. Section 6.= 3.2:


=C2=A0=C2= =A0multicast until the OrigNode is reached or MaxRank is exceeded.=C2=A0 Th= e

=C2=A0=C2=A0TargNo= de MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration

=C2=A0=C2=A0RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a rou= te with a lower Rank.=C2=A0 The value of

=C2=A0=C2=A0RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of= the time duration

= =C2=A0=C2=A0determined by the L bit.


Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, what if L is zer= o? Is RREP_WAIT_TIME set to

infinity, as the text implies?


Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL bit=E2=80= =9D, as there are additional instances I

haven=E2=80=99t called out.


[v11] L bit was change= d to L field in the document


20. Section 6.4:


=C2=A0=C2=A0Step 4:


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the receiver is th= e OrigNode, it can start transmitting the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0application data = to TargNode along the path as provided in RREP-

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Instance, a= nd processing for the RREP-DIO is complete.=C2=A0 Otherwise,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0in case of an asymmetric route, the intermediate router MUST

<= p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><= span style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ve= rtical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0include the address of the interface receiving the RREP-DIO into

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0the address vector, and then transmit the RREP-DIO via link-loc= al

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0multicast.=C2=A0 In case of a symmetric route, the RRE= P-DIO message is


As with #15: on what interface(s)?


[v11] Page 19,=C2=A0 Step 4 fir= st paragraph remains the same,

Charlie made a question: =E2=80= =9C Are we assuming a single interface?=E2=80=9D

---------------= -------------------------------------------------------

RESPONSE= to Comment 20:

------------------------------------------------= ----------------------


=

= AODV-R= PL routers can have multiple router interfaces.=C2=A0 Per-node

c= onfiguration of "RREP-DIO transmission interfaces" is an administ= rative

feature which is beyond the scope of the document.=


21. Section 10:=


=C2=A0=C2=A0fak= e AODV-RPL route discoveries.=C2=A0 In this type of scenario, RPL's

=C2=A0=C2=A0preinstalle= d mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL

=C2=A0=C2=A0route discovery is preinsta= lled, SHOULD be used.


What type of scenario is that?


[V11] Page 22, new text: When rogue rou= ters might be=C2=A0 present, RPL's preinstalled mode of operation, wher= e the key to use=C2=A0 for route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used.=



22. Appendi= x A:


s/pakcet/pa= cket/


[V11] Page 25, fixed.=C2=A0


23. General remark:


Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80=9D isn=E2= =80=99t a required section I was a little surprised

not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usua= lly present. Your call of course.


[v11] Added


Thank you very much,

I= nes.=C2=A0

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:58 AM Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins= @earthlink.net> wrote:
Hello John,

It's taken a while for me to get to this, please excuse the delay. I have some followup to your comments interspersed below.

On 4/19/2021 1:31 PM, John Scudder via Datatracker wrote:
> John Scudder has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> A lot of effort has clearly gone into this work, thank you. I do have = one topic
> I want to DISCUSS, as it seriously impacted the readability of the doc= ument
> from my point of view. I don=E2=80=99t anticipate that it will be very= difficult to
> resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to clarity and not to anything fund= amental.
>
> My chief difficulty with the document is placing it in context. No hin= ts are
> given to the reader as to what the expected network environment is. I = think it
> would be almost sufficient to say, for example =E2=80=9Cthe network en= vironment is
> assumed to be the same as described in RFC 6550, Section 1=E2=80=9D fo= r example, but
> without that hint and without a strong background in ROLL, I found mys= elf
> struggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particular lead me to believe the expec= ted
> environment looks similar to a classic ISP network =E2=80=94 a collect= ion of nodes
> connected by point-to-point links. If this isn=E2=80=99t correct (and = I bet it=E2=80=99s not)
> that may have led me into incorrect assumptions, which may be reflecte= d in my
> other comments below.
>
> Further, it=E2=80=99s not stated anywhere whether AODV-RPL is intended= to stand alone
> as its own routing protocol, or to be viewed as an extension of RPL. I= n the
> former case, it seems the document is lacking details that are present= in RFC
> 6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is the case, but a clear stateme= nt to that effect
> seems indicated.
How about this text:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Routing Protocol for Low-Power and Lossy Networks (RPL) = [RFC6550] is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an IPv6 distance vector routing protocol designed to sup= port multiple
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 traffic flows through a root-based Destination-Oriented = Directed
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Acyclic Graph (DODAG).=C2=A0 Typically, a router does no= t have routing
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 information for most other routers.=C2=A0 Consequently, = for traffic
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 between routers within the DODAG (i.e., Point-to-Point (= P2P) traffic)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 data packets either have to traverse the root in non-sto= ring mode, or
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 traverse a common ancestor in storing mode.=C2=A0 Such P= 2P traffic is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 thereby likely to traverse longer routes and may suffer = severe
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 congestion near the root (for more information see [RFC6= 997],
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC6998]). The network environment that is considered i= n this document
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 assumed to be the same as described in Section 1 of [RFC= 6550].

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> 1. Section 1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Reply.=C2=A0 AODV-RPL currently omits some features= compared to AODV -- in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0particular, flagging Route Errors, blacklisting uni= directional links,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. >
> Your use of language is entirely up to you, but I feel obliged to poin= t out
> that there=E2=80=99s been a lot of discussion in the IETF community re= cently about use
> of language that raises sensitive points, and about the term =E2=80=9C= blacklisting=E2=80=9D in
> particular. I understand that this is the only place in the document t= he term
> appears, and since it refers to AODV you can=E2=80=99t just use anothe= r term, but
> placing it in quotation marks might make it clear that it=E2=80=99s re= ferring verbatim
> to the language of RFC 3561.

This is an evolving issue.=C2=A0 I am fine with using quotes but otherwise =
maintaining consistent terminology.=C2=A0 For instance,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to= AODV -- in
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 particular, flagging Route Errors, "blacklist= ing" unidirectional links
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC3561], multihoming, and handling unnumbered in= terfaces.

If there is an official list of terms to search for please let us know.

>
> 2. Section 1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for storing and non-storing modes.=C2=A0 AODV add= s basic messages
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RREQ and RREP as part of RPL DIO (DODAG Information Objec= t) control
>
> Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2=80=9D?
Yes, will fix.

>
> 3. Section 2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Symmetric route
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The upstream and downstream routes traverse= the same routers.
>
> Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, if multi-access links are part = of the
> mix, as I imagine they may be?)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The upstream and downstream routes tra= verse the same routers and over
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the same links.
> 4. Section 4.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field= of the RREQ-DIO
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exactl= y one RREQ option,
>
> Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6 addresses"? Is it even n= ecessary to restate
> this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a clearer requirement:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DODAGID: 128-bit IPv6 address set by a DODAG root t= hat uniquely
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0identifies a DODAG.=C2=A0 The = DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv6
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address belonging to the DODAG= root.

I'm not quite sure what is requested.=C2=A0 Should it be "OrigNode= sets the
DODAGID field", relying on the definition provided in RFC 6550? Should=
it be "OrigNode sets one of its routable IPv6 address in the DODAGID f= ield"?
Honestly, I thought the meaning was clear.=C2=A0 Unless there is an
objection, I reckon we will use the latter wording.

>
> 5. Section S4.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integ= er portion
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is equal to the MaxRank.
>
> Not less than or equal, right? Strict equality to MaxRank is required?=
The existing text isn't good.=C2=A0 Instead,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose inte= ger portion
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is less than the MaxRank.


> 6. Section 4.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0TargNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field= of the RREP-DIO
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactl= y one RREP option,
>
> Same as #4.
>
> 7. Section 4.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Address Vector
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Only present when the H bit is set to 0.=C2= =A0 For an asymmetric route,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addre= sses of the route that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the RREP-DIO has passed.
>
> The first time I read through this, I didn=E2=80=99t understand it at = all. On
> re-reading, I think you=E2=80=99re using the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80= =9D in two different ways in the
> same sentence, the first time to mean =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the s= ense of an object in the
> protocol, the second time in the more casual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path = through the
> network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80=99s right, I suggest rewriting the sec= ond instance, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6
> represents the IPv6 addresses of the path through the network the RREP= -DIO has
> traversed.=E2=80=9D
>
> Also, as in point #4, is it right to say *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn= =E2=80=99t any
> given node have various IPv6 addresses? So maybe just lose the definit= e
> article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents IPv6 addresses of the pat= h=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D?

Good point.=C2=A0 We will use your formulation.

>
> 8. Section 4.3:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A one-bit reserved field.=C2=A0 This field M= UST be initialized to zero
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by the sender and MUST be ignored by the rec= eiver.
>
> The figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume= the field labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D should be
> relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D?
Actually, the description should refer to an "X" field, not an &q= uot;r"
field.=C2=A0 We will update.


>
> 9. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Figure 4.=C2=A0 If an intermediate router sends out= RREQ-DIO with the S
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bit set to 1, then all the one-hop links on the rou= te from the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OrigNode O to this router meet the requirements of = route discovery,
>
> On first reading I didn=E2=80=99t understand this. Having read the who= le document, I
> now get it (I think!). Possibly changing =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2= =80=9Chave met=E2=80=9D would have been
> enough to get me past my initial befuddlement.

Yes, that's better.

>
> 10. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The criteria used to determine whether or not each = link is symmetric
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is beyond the scope of the document.=C2=A0 For inst= ance, intermediate
>
> Should be =E2=80=9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 is beyond", or "crite= ria =E2=80=A6 are beyond", depending on
> whether you want singular or plural.
We will use "criteria =E2=80=A6 are beyond".

>
> 11. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 routers can use local information (e.g., bit rate, bandwi= dth, number
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of cells used in 6tisch)
>
> I wouldn=E2=80=99t have minded a reference for 6tisch.
No problem.

>
> 12. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Upon receiving a RREQ-DIO with the S bit set to 1, = a node determines
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whether this one-hop link can be used symmetrically= , i.e., both the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0two directions meet the requirements of data transm= ission.=C2=A0 If the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RREQ-DIO arrives over an interface that is not know= n to be symmetric,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or is known to be asymmetric, the S bit is set to 0= .=C2=A0 If the S bit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0arrives already set to be '0', it is set to= be '0' on retransmission
>
> The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D seems misused here. I guess = you mean something like
> =E2=80=9Cwhen the RREQ-DIO is propagated=E2=80=9D.
That is better.=C2=A0 We will use that.

>
> 13. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream= Expected
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Receiv= ed Signal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is= symmetric
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in terms of link quality is given in using an averaging t= echnique.
>
> This sentence needs a rewrite to make it grammatical. It works up unti= l "is
> given in using an averaging technique=E2=80=9D.
How about:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Appendix A describes an example method using the u= pstream Expected
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream= Received Signal
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the = link is symmetric
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in terms of link quality using an averaging techni= que.


>
> 14. Section 6.2.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set= to 1, the router MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0determine whether each direction of the link= (by which the RREQ-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Fun= ction.=C2=A0 In case that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) dir= ection of the link
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0does not satisfy the Objective Function, the= link can't be used
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DI= O to be sent out MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be set as 0.=C2=A0 If the S bit in the recei= ved RREQ-DIO is set to 0,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the router MUST determine into the upward di= rection (towards the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OrigNode) of the link.
>
> The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99t make sense.
How about:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ...=C2=A0 If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0= ,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the router MUST determine the upward directi= on (towards the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 OrigNode) of the link.
>
> 15. Section 6.2.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If the router is an intermediate router, the= n it transmits a RREQ-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DIO via link-local multicast;
>
> On what interface? Routers generally can have multiple interfaces. Aga= in, this
> is a place a clear description of the network environment might have h= elped.

The link-local multicast should go out over all local interfaces.

>
> 16. Section 6.2.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a si= ngle RREQ-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate rou= ter to the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to re= ach other
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 targets.=C2=A0 In this case, before rebroadcasting the RR= EQ-DIO
>
> The use of the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is t= his =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D in the RF
> sense? Again, this is a place a clear description of the network envir= onment
> might have helped.
This needs to be reformulated to avoid suggesting anything about RF
broadcast.=C2=A0 TBD.

>
> 17. Section 6.2.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 send out any RREQ-DIO.=C2=A0 For the purposes of determin= ing the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the interm= ediate
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 router maintains a record of the targets that have been r= equested
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 associated with the RREQ-Instance.=C2=A0 Any RREQ-DIO mes= sage with
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 different ART Options coming from a router with higher Ra= nk is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ignored.
>
> It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last sentence goes with the previo= us and if so,
> how. Does it even relate to multiple targets? Also, different from wha= t? If it
> has the same ART Options (same as what?) is it *not* ignored?
How about:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ..... =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 For the purposes of
determining the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediat= e
=C2=A0=C2=A0 router maintains a record of the targets that have been reques= ted
=C2=A0=C2=A0 associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any incoming RREQ-DIO messa= ge having
=C2=A0=C2=A0 multiple ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank tha= n the
Rank of
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the stored targets is ignored.

>
> 18. Section 6.3.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 implementation-specific and out of scope.=C2=A0 If the im= plementation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 selects the symmetric route, and the L bit is not 0, the = TargNode MAY
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TI= ME to await
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a symmetric route with a lower Rank.=C2=A0 The value of R= REP_WAIT_TIME is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 set by default to 1/4 of the time duration determined by = the L bit.
>
> It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it=E2=80=99s an L field.
Good point!

>
> 19. Section 6.3.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 multicast until the OrigNode is reached or MaxRank is exc= eeded.=C2=A0 The
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TargNode MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a route with a lower Rank.=C2=A0 = The value of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of the time durat= ion
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 determined by the L bit.
>
> Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, what if L is zero? Is RREP_WAIT_= TIME set to
> infinity, as the text implies?
Thanks for pointing this out.=C2=A0 We need to be explicit about it.=C2=A0 = I don't
think the RREP_WAIT_TIME should ever be zero or infinity. But, if it
were, the implementations would still be interoperable in a sense.=C2=A0 Do=
we really want to get into exactly what wait times make sense in this
context?


>
> Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL bit=E2=80=9D, as there are ad= ditional instances I
> haven=E2=80=99t called out.
>
> 20. Section 6.4:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Step 4:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the receiver is the OrigNode, it can sta= rt transmitting the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 application data to TargNode along the path= as provided in RREP-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Instance, and processing for the RREP-DIO i= s complete.=C2=A0 Otherwise,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in case of an asymmetric route, the interme= diate router MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 include the address of the interface receiv= ing the RREP-DIO into
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the address vector, and then transmit the R= REP-DIO via link-local
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 multicast.=C2=A0 In case of a symmetric rou= te, the RREP-DIO message is
>
> As with #15: on what interface(s)?
It should go out to all the neighbors over multiple interfaces if necessary= .

>
> 21. Section 10:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 fake AODV-RPL route discoveries.=C2=A0 In this type of sc= enario, RPL's
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for = a P2P-RPL
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used.
>
> What type of scenario is that?

=C2=A0=C2=A0"In this type of scenario" -> "When rogue rou= ters might be present"

>
> 22. Appendix A:
>
> s/pakcet/packet/
Check.
>
> 23. General remark:
>
> Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t a required s= ection I was a little surprised
> not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usually present. Your call of cou= rse.
Acknowledgements are due to a lot of people - thanks for the reminder!

Naturally Yours,
Charlie P.

--000000000000c18f0d05d00fa739-- From nobody Fri Nov 5 12:38:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF02B3A0C95; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:38:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=googlemail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZOAitusJpsWn; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x931.google.com (mail-ua1-x931.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::931]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 579853A0C7E; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x931.google.com with SMTP id l43so19042882uad.4; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nGlV5M1RZifZf/qtg6wDZh7PcwL+U0Sf0YirnTahm/U=; b=NyVdwvGDUTHH4R9liQb2uTY0fJXMZcdfkzSsdbw104MpMGCGM4mB4a7TLobpJgrOtJ t1w0CWs1RzLD3m/D2Pm2RRNPRP8nKj7SHPvZjxUjRDcPv78bHYowryPR58uxhg3uyUl7 /Ouf8eDC7dtFyTeHlBVsIp1N3TcJx63P2iK7KXQZqIXuqkY264C1HpWh8lu/UVSl/lBm oCk3sZq9stN74jxjKBaFQCdPgWkU9ljQbkURan4hONVpc5rUCHNG4AG+6MUmcJZHKEr1 DpdrXFt+CZB2jEERndmkJpVpBK0YG/2de8vzIBwqMqr8y5JHbLHrFgxRyzwfPguzvS0n PSvA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nGlV5M1RZifZf/qtg6wDZh7PcwL+U0Sf0YirnTahm/U=; b=rzYY6PVMojYjpmP41+XyQcdBHrHPMsvY63530hTZaoLVUZ65dz0Y8zLOLk1zluCbTt mmj4C0iGrGQ5jZBZzncjX4zwpAhYG97GRD4uZ7wqPHzOwbBL7sBAxFfa396p0kfB9EoC wm5Z9QSjT15CPc3Ve9nBu0nD1v6m2l4qefje0Z7AnpBZ2qUvsaQpc2BNveUfjuuMQZ1Z LbPNEz9/4GAnS9nuWoyM+zZVAIR7gTW0s166Um1Bha99ZFBFT+0rCYHG874JMOnp+9wD 8rn8gSkMOXt1wnJyPk7Mn9yVVa3XjdwYh2GE1g7I7Pj/UacDazqcLMDiU25jBdr5G/5S s7iA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533zkpzA0Wt/3NupZcTtXHcaQKchyuskGZ+/LoAxT4O8Dorv4Ccc 206zFBTdK22Q6HcU/skeuwrliSRLMfghFnDepvE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwFJzxGjcDexPlRrP+ZM0iKDaxtjgUdM4qgSjALomBkg0ubwFpCRhRmoryol92kx9dosnP7uZk7y8M3jZuheAw= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ec10:: with SMTP id d16mr8249218vso.58.1636141077219; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 12:37:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161886431878.23690.10633892549620498188@ietfa.amsl.com> <4C51FD1A-AA10-47C9-BAC0-B41C294F10BE@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <4C51FD1A-AA10-47C9-BAC0-B41C294F10BE@juniper.net> From: Ines Robles Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 21:37:19 +0200 Message-ID: To: John Scudder Cc: John Scudder via Datatracker , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , The IESG , roll-chairs , "draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl@ietf.org" , Charlie Perkins , Alvaro Retana Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b5cec605d00fc772" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] John Scudder's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 19:38:07 -0000 --000000000000b5cec605d00fc772 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, Many thanks for your prompt reply :-). The week following IETF-112 is Ok. Best wishes, Ines. On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 9:34 PM John Scudder wrote: > Hi Ines and all, > > Thanks for your patience. I hope it will be OK if I don=E2=80=99t review = and reply > in detail until the week following IETF-112? If it=E2=80=99s more urgent = than that, > let me know please. > > Thanks, > > =E2=80=94John > > On Nov 5, 2021, at 3:28 PM, Ines Robles > wrote: > > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > Hello John, > > Thank you for your comments to improve the document. We believe that v11 > addresses your DISCUSS points, please let us know. > > Please find comments below corresponding to version 11 in [v11] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > A lot of effort has clearly gone into this work, thank you. I do have one > topic > I want to DISCUSS, as it seriously impacted the readability of the docume= nt > from my point of view. I don=E2=80=99t anticipate that it will be very di= fficult to > resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to clarity and not to anything > fundamental. > > My chief difficulty with the document is placing it in context. No hints > are > given to the reader as to what the expected network environment is. I > think it > would be almost sufficient to say, for example =E2=80=9Cthe network envir= onment is > assumed to be the same as described in RFC 6550, Section 1=E2=80=9D for e= xample, > but > without that hint and without a strong background in ROLL, I found myself > struggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particular lead me to believe the expected > environment looks similar to a classic ISP network =E2=80=94 a collection= of nodes > connected by point-to-point links. If this isn=E2=80=99t correct (and I b= et it=E2=80=99s > not) > that may have led me into incorrect assumptions, which may be reflected i= n > my > other comments below. > > [v11] Page 3, new text: The network environment that is considered in thi= s > document is assumed to be the same as described in Section 1 of > > [RFC6550] > > . > > > Further, it=E2=80=99s not stated anywhere whether AODV-RPL is intended to= stand > alone > as its own routing protocol, or to be viewed as an extension of RPL. In > the > former case, it seems the document is lacking details that are present in > RFC > 6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is the case, but a clear statement = to that > effect > seems indicated. > > [v11] Page 3, new text: AODV-RPL reuses and extends the core RPL > functionality to support > routes with bidirectional asymmetric links > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 1. Section 1: > > Reply. AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in > particular, flagging Route Errors, blacklisting unidirectional links, > multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. > > Your use of language is entirely up to you, but I feel obliged to point o= ut > that there=E2=80=99s been a lot of discussion in the IETF community recen= tly about > use > of language that raises sensitive points, and about the term > =E2=80=9Cblacklisting=E2=80=9D in > particular. I understand that this is the only place in the document the > term > appears, and since it refers to AODV you can=E2=80=99t just use another t= erm, but > placing it in quotation marks might make it clear that it=E2=80=99s refer= ring > verbatim > to the language of RFC 3561. > > [v11] (Page 3), new text: AODV-RPL currently omits some features > compared to AODV -- in > particular, flagging Route Errors, "blacklisting" unidirectional > links ([RFC3561 > ]), > multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. > > > 2. Section 1: > > support for storing and non-storing modes. AODV adds basic messages > RREQ and RREP as part of RPL DIO (DODAG Information Object) control > > Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2=80=9D? > > > [v11] Page 3: It was changed to AODV-RPL adds basic messages > > > 3. Section 2: > > Symmetric route > The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers. > > Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, if multi-access links are part of > the > mix, as I imagine they may be?) > > [v11] Page 5, new text: Symmetric route: The upstream and downstream > routes traverse the same routers and > over the same links. > > > 4. Section 4.1: > > OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREQ-DIO > message. A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREQ option, > > Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6 addresses"? Is it even necessary= to > restate > this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a clearer requirement: > > DODAGID: 128-bit IPv6 address set by a DODAG root that uniquely > identifies a DODAG. The DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv6 > address belonging to the DODAG root. > > [v11] Page 6-New text: OrigNode selects one of its IPv6 addresses and > sets it in the DODAGID > field of the RREQ-DIO message. > > > 5. Section S4.1: > > TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion > is equal to the MaxRank. > > Not less than or equal, right? Strict equality to MaxRank is required? > > [v11] Page 8, new text: TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank > whose integer portion > is less than or equal to the MaxRank. > > > 6. Section 4.2: > > TargNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DIO > message. A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option, > > Same as #4. > > [v11] Page 8, new text: TargNode sets one of its IPv6 addresses in the > DODAGID field of the > RREP-DIO message. > > > 7. Section 4.2: > > Address Vector > Only present when the H bit is set to 0. For an asymmetric route, > the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the route that > the RREP-DIO has passed. > > The first time I read through this, I didn=E2=80=99t understand it at all= . On > re-reading, I think you=E2=80=99re using the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D= in two different ways in > the > same sentence, the first time to mean =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the sens= e of an object in > the > protocol, the second time in the more casual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path thr= ough the > network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80=99s right, I suggest rewriting the second= instance, as in > =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 > represents the IPv6 addresses of the path through the network the RREP-DI= O > has > Traversed.=E2=80=9D > > [v11] Page 10, new text: Address Vector > Only present when the H bit is set to 0. For an asymmetric route, > the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the path > through the network the RREP-DIO has passed. > > Passed was not changed to Traversed. > > > Also, as in point #4, is it right to say *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn=E2= =80=99t any > given node have various IPv6 addresses? So maybe just lose the definite > article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents IPv6 addresses of the path= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D? > > 8. Section 4.3: > > r > A one-bit reserved field. This field MUST be initialized to zero > by the sender and MUST be ignored by the receiver. > > The figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume th= e field labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D > should be > relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D? > > [v11] Page 11: changed to X. > > 9. Section 5: > > Figure 4. If an intermediate router sends out RREQ-DIO with the S > bit set to 1, then all the one-hop links on the route from the > OrigNode O to this router meet the requirements of route discovery, > > On first reading I didn=E2=80=99t understand this. Having read the whole = document, > I > now get it (I think!). Possibly changing =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2=80= =9Chave met=E2=80=9D would have > been > enough to get me past my initial befuddlement. > > [v11] Page 11: changed to =E2=80=9Chas met=E2=80=9D > > 10. Section 5: > > The criteria used to determine whether or not each link is symmetric > is beyond the scope of the document. For instance, intermediate > > Should be =E2=80=9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 is beyond", or "criteria =E2=80=A6= are beyond", depending on > whether you want singular or plural. > > [v11] Page12, Not Corrected. [Can this be addressed by the RFC Editor?] > > > 11. Section 5: > > routers can use local information (e.g., bit rate, bandwidth, number > of cells used in 6tisch) > > I wouldn=E2=80=99t have minded a reference for 6tisch. > > [v11]Page 12, reference added, new text: ...cells used in 6tisch [RFC9030 > > ])... > > > 12. Section 5: > > Upon receiving a RREQ-DIO with the S bit set to 1, a node determines > whether this one-hop link can be used symmetrically, i.e., both the > two directions meet the requirements of data transmission. If the > RREQ-DIO arrives over an interface that is not known to be symmetric, > or is known to be asymmetric, the S bit is set to 0. If the S bit > arrives already set to be '0', it is set to be '0' on retransmission > > The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D seems misused here. I guess you= mean something > like > =E2=80=9Cwhen the RREQ-DIO is propagated=E2=80=9D. > > [v11] Page 12, changed to propagated: ..when the RREQ-DIO is propagated. > > 13. Section 5: > > Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected > Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Received Signal > Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric > in terms of link quality is given in using an averaging technique. > > This sentence needs a rewrite to make it grammatical. It works up until "= is > given in using an averaging technique=E2=80=9D. > > [v11] Page 13, new text: =E2=80=9C Appendix A > > describes an example method using the upstream Expected > Number of Transmissions (ETX) and downstream Received Signal Strength > Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric in terms > of link quality using an averaging technique.=E2=80=9D > > 14. Section 6.2.1: > > If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 1, the router MUST > determine whether each direction of the link (by which the RREQ- > DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Function. In case that > the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) direction of the link > does not satisfy the Objective Function, the link can't be used > symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DIO to be sent out MUST > be set as 0. If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0, > the router MUST determine into the upward direction (towards the > OrigNode) of the link. > > The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99t make sense. > > [v11] Page 14, Step 1 section was re-written, new text:=E2=80=9DStep 1: > > The router MUST first determine whether to propagate the RREQ-DIO. > It does this by determining whether or not the downstream > direction of the incoming link satisfies the Objective Function > (OF). If not the RREQ-DIO MUST be dropped, and the following > steps are not processed. Otherwise, the router MUST join the > RREQ-Instance and prepare to propagate the RREQ-DIO. The upstream > neighbor router that transmitted the received RREQ-DIO is selected > as the preferred parent.=E2=80=9D > > 15. Section 6.2.1: > > If the router is an intermediate router, then it transmits a RREQ- > DIO via link-local multicast; > > On what interface? Routers generally can have multiple interfaces. Again, > this > is a place a clear description of the network environment might have > helped. > > [v11] Page 15, Step 4 new text as follows: =E2=80=9CStep 4: > > The router checks whether one of its addresses is included in one > of the ART Options. If so, this router is one of the TargNodes. > Otherwise, it is an intermediate router. > > If the router is an intermediate router, then it transmits the > RREQ-DIO via link-local multicast; if the H bit is set to 0, the > intermediate router MUST include the address of the interface > receiving the RREQ-DIO into the address vector. Otherwise, the > router is TargNode; if it was not already associated with the > RREQ-Instance, it prepares and transmits a RREP-DIO (Section 6.3 > > ). > If, on the other hand, TargNode was already associated with the > RREQ-Instance, it takes no further action and does not send an > RREP-DIO.=E2=80=9D > > 16. Section 6.2.2: > > If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ- > Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate router to the > others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other > targets. In this case, before rebroadcasting the RREQ-DIO > > The use of the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is this= =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D in > the RF > sense? Again, this is a place a clear description of the network > environment > might have helped. > > [v11] Page 16, rebroadcasting changed to transmitting, new text states: = =E2=80=9C > If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ- > Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate router to the > others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other > targets. In this case, before transmitting the RREQ-DIO via link- > local multicast, a TargNode MUST delete the Target Option > encapsulating its own address, so that downstream routers with higher > Rank values do not try to create a route to this TargNode.=E2=80=9D > > 17. Section 6.2.2: > > send out any RREQ-DIO. For the purposes of determining the > intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate > router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested > associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any RREQ-DIO message with > different ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank is > ignored. > > It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last sentence goes with the previous = and if so, > how. Does it even relate to multiple targets? Also, different from what? > If it > has the same ART Options (same as what?) is it *not* ignored? > > [v11] Page 16, new text: =E2=80=9C ...If the intersection is empty, it > means that all the targets have been reached, and the router MUST NOT > transmit any RREQ-DIO. For the purposes of determining the > intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate > router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested for > a given RREQ-Instance. Any incoming RREQ-DIO message having multiple > ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank than the Rank of > the stored targets is ignored.=E2=80=9D > > 18. Section 6.3.1: > > implementation-specific and out of scope. If the implementation > selects the symmetric route, and the L bit is not 0, the TargNode MAY > delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TIME to await > a symmetric route with a lower Rank. The value of RREP_WAIT_TIME is > set by default to 1/4 of the time duration determined by the L bit. > > It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it=E2=80=99s an L field. > > [v11] L bit was changed to L field in the document > > 19. Section 6.3.2: > > multicast until the OrigNode is reached or MaxRank is exceeded. The > TargNode MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration > RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a route with a lower Rank. The value of > RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of the time duration > determined by the L bit. > > Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, what if L is zero? Is RREP_WAIT_TIM= E set to > infinity, as the text implies? > > Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL bit=E2=80=9D, as there are addit= ional instances I > haven=E2=80=99t called out. > > [v11] L bit was changed to L field in the document > > 20. Section 6.4: > > Step 4: > > If the receiver is the OrigNode, it can start transmitting the > application data to TargNode along the path as provided in RREP- > Instance, and processing for the RREP-DIO is complete. Otherwise, > in case of an asymmetric route, the intermediate router MUST > include the address of the interface receiving the RREP-DIO into > the address vector, and then transmit the RREP-DIO via link-local > multicast. In case of a symmetric route, the RREP-DIO message is > > As with #15: on what interface(s)? > > [v11] Page 19, Step 4 first paragraph remains the same, > Charlie made a question: =E2=80=9C Are we assuming a single interface?=E2= =80=9D > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > RESPONSE to Comment 20: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > AODV-RPL routers can have multiple router interfaces. Per-node > configuration of "RREP-DIO transmission interfaces" is an administrative > feature which is beyond the scope of the document. > > 21. Section 10: > > fake AODV-RPL route discoveries. In this type of scenario, RPL's > preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL > route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. > > What type of scenario is that? > > [V11] Page 22, new text: When rogue routers might be present, RPL's > preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for route discovery > is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. > > > 22. Appendix A: > > s/pakcet/packet/ > > [V11] Page 25, fixed. > > 23. General remark: > > Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t a required sect= ion I was a little > surprised > not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usually present. Your call of course= . > > [v11] Added > > > Thank you very much, > > Ines. > > On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:58 AM Charlie Perkins < > charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Hello John, >> >> It's taken a while for me to get to this, please excuse the delay. I >> have some followup to your comments interspersed below. >> >> On 4/19/2021 1:31 PM, John Scudder via Datatracker wrote: >> > John Scudder has entered the following ballot position for >> > draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: Discuss >> > >> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s >> > introductory paragraph, however.) >> > >> > >> > Please refer to >> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> >> > for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> > >> > >> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl/ >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > DISCUSS: >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > A lot of effort has clearly gone into this work, thank you. I do have >> one topic >> > I want to DISCUSS, as it seriously impacted the readability of the >> document >> > from my point of view. I don=E2=80=99t anticipate that it will be very >> difficult to >> > resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to clarity and not to anything >> fundamental. >> > >> > My chief difficulty with the document is placing it in context. No >> hints are >> > given to the reader as to what the expected network environment is. I >> think it >> > would be almost sufficient to say, for example =E2=80=9Cthe network en= vironment >> is >> > assumed to be the same as described in RFC 6550, Section 1=E2=80=9D fo= r >> example, but >> > without that hint and without a strong background in ROLL, I found >> myself >> > struggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particular lead me to believe the >> expected >> > environment looks similar to a classic ISP network =E2=80=94 a collect= ion of >> nodes >> > connected by point-to-point links. If this isn=E2=80=99t correct (and = I bet >> it=E2=80=99s not) >> > that may have led me into incorrect assumptions, which may be reflecte= d >> in my >> > other comments below. >> > >> > Further, it=E2=80=99s not stated anywhere whether AODV-RPL is intended= to stand >> alone >> > as its own routing protocol, or to be viewed as an extension of RPL. I= n >> the >> > former case, it seems the document is lacking details that are present >> in RFC >> > 6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is the case, but a clear stateme= nt to >> that effect >> > seems indicated. >> How about this text: >> Routing Protocol for Low-Power and Lossy Networks (RPL) [RFC6550] is >> an IPv6 distance vector routing protocol designed to support multipl= e >> traffic flows through a root-based Destination-Oriented Directed >> Acyclic Graph (DODAG). Typically, a router does not have routing >> information for most other routers. Consequently, for traffic >> between routers within the DODAG (i.e., Point-to-Point (P2P) traffic= ) >> data packets either have to traverse the root in non-storing mode, o= r >> traverse a common ancestor in storing mode. Such P2P traffic is >> thereby likely to traverse longer routes and may suffer severe >> congestion near the root (for more information see [RFC6997], >> [RFC6998]). The network environment that is considered in this >> document >> assumed to be the same as described in Section 1 of [RFC6550]. >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > COMMENT: >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > 1. Section 1: >> > >> > Reply. AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- >> in >> > particular, flagging Route Errors, blacklisting unidirectional >> links, >> > multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. >> > >> > Your use of language is entirely up to you, but I feel obliged to poin= t >> out >> > that there=E2=80=99s been a lot of discussion in the IETF community re= cently >> about use >> > of language that raises sensitive points, and about the term >> =E2=80=9Cblacklisting=E2=80=9D in >> > particular. I understand that this is the only place in the document >> the term >> > appears, and since it refers to AODV you can=E2=80=99t just use anothe= r term, >> but >> > placing it in quotation marks might make it clear that it=E2=80=99s re= ferring >> verbatim >> > to the language of RFC 3561. >> >> This is an evolving issue. I am fine with using quotes but otherwise >> maintaining consistent terminology. For instance, >> >> AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in >> particular, flagging Route Errors, "blacklisting" unidirectional >> links >> [RFC3561], multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. >> >> If there is an official list of terms to search for please let us know. >> >> > >> > 2. Section 1: >> > >> > support for storing and non-storing modes. AODV adds basic message= s >> > RREQ and RREP as part of RPL DIO (DODAG Information Object) control >> > >> > Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2=80=9D? >> Yes, will fix. >> >> > >> > 3. Section 2: >> > >> > Symmetric route >> > The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers. >> > >> > Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, if multi-access links are part >> of the >> > mix, as I imagine they may be?) >> >> The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers and >> over >> the same links. >> > 4. Section 4.1: >> > >> > OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREQ-DI= O >> > message. A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREQ option, >> > >> > Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6 addresses"? Is it even necess= ary to >> restate >> > this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a clearer requirement: >> > >> > DODAGID: 128-bit IPv6 address set by a DODAG root that uniquely >> > identifies a DODAG. The DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv6 >> > address belonging to the DODAG root. >> >> I'm not quite sure what is requested. Should it be "OrigNode sets the >> DODAGID field", relying on the definition provided in RFC 6550? Should >> it be "OrigNode sets one of its routable IPv6 address in the DODAGID >> field"? >> Honestly, I thought the meaning was clear. Unless there is an >> objection, I reckon we will use the latter wording. >> >> > >> > 5. Section S4.1: >> > >> > TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion >> > is equal to the MaxRank. >> > >> > Not less than or equal, right? Strict equality to MaxRank is required? >> The existing text isn't good. Instead, >> >> TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion >> is less than the MaxRank. >> >> >> > 6. Section 4.2: >> > >> > TargNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DI= O >> > message. A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option, >> > >> > Same as #4. >> > >> > 7. Section 4.2: >> > >> > Address Vector >> > Only present when the H bit is set to 0. For an asymmetric rout= e, >> > the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the route th= at >> > the RREP-DIO has passed. >> > >> > The first time I read through this, I didn=E2=80=99t understand it at = all. On >> > re-reading, I think you=E2=80=99re using the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80= =9D in two different ways >> in the >> > same sentence, the first time to mean =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the s= ense of an object >> in the >> > protocol, the second time in the more casual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path = through >> the >> > network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80=99s right, I suggest rewriting the sec= ond instance, as >> in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 >> > represents the IPv6 addresses of the path through the network the >> RREP-DIO has >> > traversed.=E2=80=9D >> > >> > Also, as in point #4, is it right to say *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn= =E2=80=99t >> any >> > given node have various IPv6 addresses? So maybe just lose the definit= e >> > article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents IPv6 addresses of the pat= h=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D? >> >> Good point. We will use your formulation. >> >> > >> > 8. Section 4.3: >> > >> > r >> > A one-bit reserved field. This field MUST be initialized to zer= o >> > by the sender and MUST be ignored by the receiver. >> > >> > The figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume= the field labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D >> should be >> > relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D? >> Actually, the description should refer to an "X" field, not an "r" >> field. We will update. >> >> >> > >> > 9. Section 5: >> > >> > Figure 4. If an intermediate router sends out RREQ-DIO with the S >> > bit set to 1, then all the one-hop links on the route from the >> > OrigNode O to this router meet the requirements of route discovery= , >> > >> > On first reading I didn=E2=80=99t understand this. Having read the who= le >> document, I >> > now get it (I think!). Possibly changing =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2= =80=9Chave met=E2=80=9D would >> have been >> > enough to get me past my initial befuddlement. >> >> Yes, that's better. >> >> > >> > 10. Section 5: >> > >> > The criteria used to determine whether or not each link is symmetr= ic >> > is beyond the scope of the document. For instance, intermediate >> > >> > Should be =E2=80=9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 is beyond", or "criteria =E2=80= =A6 are beyond", >> depending on >> > whether you want singular or plural. >> We will use "criteria =E2=80=A6 are beyond". >> >> > >> > 11. Section 5: >> > >> > routers can use local information (e.g., bit rate, bandwidth, numbe= r >> > of cells used in 6tisch) >> > >> > I wouldn=E2=80=99t have minded a reference for 6tisch. >> No problem. >> >> > >> > 12. Section 5: >> > >> > Upon receiving a RREQ-DIO with the S bit set to 1, a node determin= es >> > whether this one-hop link can be used symmetrically, i.e., both th= e >> > two directions meet the requirements of data transmission. If the >> > RREQ-DIO arrives over an interface that is not known to be >> symmetric, >> > or is known to be asymmetric, the S bit is set to 0. If the S bit >> > arrives already set to be '0', it is set to be '0' on retransmissi= on >> > >> > The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D seems misused here. I guess = you mean >> something like >> > =E2=80=9Cwhen the RREQ-DIO is propagated=E2=80=9D. >> That is better. We will use that. >> >> > >> > 13. Section 5: >> > >> > Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected >> > Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Received Signal >> > Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric >> > in terms of link quality is given in using an averaging technique. >> > >> > This sentence needs a rewrite to make it grammatical. It works up unti= l >> "is >> > given in using an averaging technique=E2=80=9D. >> How about: >> Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected >> Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Received Signal >> Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric >> in terms of link quality using an averaging technique. >> >> >> > >> > 14. Section 6.2.1: >> > >> > If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 1, the router MU= ST >> > determine whether each direction of the link (by which the RREQ- >> > DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Function. In case that >> > the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) direction of the link >> > does not satisfy the Objective Function, the link can't be used >> > symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DIO to be sent out MUS= T >> > be set as 0. If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0, >> > the router MUST determine into the upward direction (towards the >> > OrigNode) of the link. >> > >> > The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99t make sense. >> How about: >> ... If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0, >> the router MUST determine the upward direction (towards the >> OrigNode) of the link. >> > >> > 15. Section 6.2.1: >> > >> > If the router is an intermediate router, then it transmits a RRE= Q- >> > DIO via link-local multicast; >> > >> > On what interface? Routers generally can have multiple interfaces. >> Again, this >> > is a place a clear description of the network environment might have >> helped. >> >> The link-local multicast should go out over all local interfaces. >> >> > >> > 16. Section 6.2.2: >> > >> > If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ- >> > Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate router to the >> > others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other >> > targets. In this case, before rebroadcasting the RREQ-DIO >> > >> > The use of the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is t= his =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D >> in the RF >> > sense? Again, this is a place a clear description of the network >> environment >> > might have helped. >> This needs to be reformulated to avoid suggesting anything about RF >> broadcast. TBD. >> >> > >> > 17. Section 6.2.2: >> > >> > send out any RREQ-DIO. For the purposes of determining the >> > intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate >> > router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested >> > associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any RREQ-DIO message with >> > different ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank is >> > ignored. >> > >> > It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last sentence goes with the previo= us and if >> so, >> > how. Does it even relate to multiple targets? Also, different from >> what? If it >> > has the same ART Options (same as what?) is it *not* ignored? >> How about: >> ..... For the purposes of >> determining the >> intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate >> router maintains a record of the targets that have been requested >> associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any incoming RREQ-DIO message havi= ng >> multiple ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank than the >> Rank of >> the stored targets is ignored. >> >> > >> > 18. Section 6.3.1: >> > >> > implementation-specific and out of scope. If the implementation >> > selects the symmetric route, and the L bit is not 0, the TargNode M= AY >> > delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TIME to awai= t >> > a symmetric route with a lower Rank. The value of RREP_WAIT_TIME i= s >> > set by default to 1/4 of the time duration determined by the L bit. >> > >> > It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it=E2=80=99s an L field. >> Good point! >> >> > >> > 19. Section 6.3.2: >> > >> > multicast until the OrigNode is reached or MaxRank is exceeded. Th= e >> > TargNode MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration >> > RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a route with a lower Rank. The value of >> > RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of the time duration >> > determined by the L bit. >> > >> > Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, what if L is zero? Is RREP_WAIT_= TIME set >> to >> > infinity, as the text implies? >> Thanks for pointing this out. We need to be explicit about it. I don't >> think the RREP_WAIT_TIME should ever be zero or infinity. But, if it >> were, the implementations would still be interoperable in a sense. Do >> we really want to get into exactly what wait times make sense in this >> context? >> >> >> > >> > Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL bit=E2=80=9D, as there are ad= ditional >> instances I >> > haven=E2=80=99t called out. >> > >> > 20. Section 6.4: >> > >> > Step 4: >> > >> > If the receiver is the OrigNode, it can start transmitting the >> > application data to TargNode along the path as provided in RREP= - >> > Instance, and processing for the RREP-DIO is complete. >> Otherwise, >> > in case of an asymmetric route, the intermediate router MUST >> > include the address of the interface receiving the RREP-DIO int= o >> > the address vector, and then transmit the RREP-DIO via link-loc= al >> > multicast. In case of a symmetric route, the RREP-DIO message = is >> > >> > As with #15: on what interface(s)? >> It should go out to all the neighbors over multiple interfaces if >> necessary. >> >> > >> > 21. Section 10: >> > >> > fake AODV-RPL route discoveries. In this type of scenario, RPL's >> > preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL >> > route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. >> > >> > What type of scenario is that? >> >> "In this type of scenario" -> "When rogue routers might be present" >> >> > >> > 22. Appendix A: >> > >> > s/pakcet/packet/ >> Check. >> > >> > 23. General remark: >> > >> > Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t a required s= ection I was a little >> surprised >> > not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usually present. Your call of cou= rse. >> Acknowledgements are due to a lot of people - thanks for the reminder! >> >> Naturally Yours, >> Charlie P. >> >> > --000000000000b5cec605d00fc772 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi John,

Many thanks for your prompt re= ply :-).=C2=A0 The week following IETF-112 is Ok.

= Best=C2=A0wishes,
Ines.=C2=A0

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 9:34 PM= John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>= ; wrote:
Hi Ines and all,

Thanks for your patience. I hope it will be OK if I don=E2=80=99t revi= ew and reply in detail until the week following IETF-112? If it=E2=80=99s m= ore urgent than that, let me know please.

Thanks,

=E2=80=94John

On Nov 5, 2021, at 3:28 PM, Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote:


[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Hello John,

Thank you for your comments to improv= e the document. We believe that v11 addresses your DISCUSS points, please l= et us know.=C2=A0

Please find comments below correspond= ing to version 11 in [v11]=C2=A0

----------------------------------------= ------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------= ------------------------------

A lot of effort has clearly gone into th= is work, thank you. I do have one topic
I want to DISCUSS, as it seriously impac= ted the readability of the document
from my point of view. I don=E2=80=99t a= nticipate that it will be very difficult to
resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to cl= arity and not to anything fundamental.

My chief difficulty with the document is= placing it in context. No hints are
given to the reader as to what the expected network enviro= nment is. I think it
would be almost sufficient to say, for e= xample =E2=80=9Cthe network environment is
assumed to be the same as described in R= FC 6550, Section 1=E2=80=9D for example, but
without that hint and without a strong b= ackground in ROLL, I found myself
struggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particula= r lead me to believe the expected
environment looks similar to a classic I= SP network =E2=80=94 a collection of nodes
connected by point-to-point links. If th= is isn=E2=80=99t correct (and I bet it=E2=80=99s not)
that may have led me into incorrect assu= mptions, which may be reflected in my
other comments below.

[v11] Page 3, new tex= t: The = network environment that is considered in this

Further, it=E2=80=99s not stated anywher= e whether AODV-RPL is int= ended to stand alone
as its own routing protocol, or to be vi= ewed as an extension of RPL= . In the
former case, it seems the document is la= cking details that are present in RFC
6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is= the case, but a clear statement to that effect
seems indicated.

[v11] Page 3, new text: AODV= -RPL reuses and extends the core RPL functionality to support
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0rou= tes with bidirectional asymmetric links



----------------------------------------= ------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------= ------------------------------

1. Section 1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reply.=C2=A0 AODV-RPL = currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0particular, flagging R= oute Errors, blacklisting unidirectional links,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0multihoming, and handl= ing unnumbered interfaces.

Your use of language is entirely up to y= ou, but I feel obliged to point out
that there=E2=80=99s been a lot of discu= ssion in the IETF community recently about use
of language that raises sensitive points= , and about the term =E2=80=9Cblacklisting=E2=80=9D in
particular. I understand that this is th= e only place in the document the term
appears, and since it refers to AODV you= can=E2=80=99t just use another term, but
placing it in quotation marks might make= it clear that it=E2=80=99s referring verbatim
to the language of RFC 3561.
[v11] (Pag= e 3), new text: =C2= =A0A= ODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to AODV -- in
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0par= ticular, flagging Route Errors, "blacklisting" unidirectional
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0lin= ks ([RFC3561]), multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces.=C2=A0


2. Section 1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0support for storing and non-= storing modes.=C2=A0 AODV adds basic messages
=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ and RREP as part of RPL= DIO (DODAG Information Object) control

Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2= =80=9D?


[v11] Page 3: It was = changed to AODV-RPL adds basic messages


3. Section 2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Symmetric route=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The = upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers.

Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, i= f multi-access links are part of the
mix, as I imagine they may be?)
[v11] Page 5, new text: Symm= etric route: The upstream and downstream routes traverse the same routers a= nd
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0over the same links.


4. Section 4.1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0OrigNode sets its IPv6= address in the DODAGID field of the RREQ-DIO
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREQ-= DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREQ option,

Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6= addresses"? Is it even necessary to restate
this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a= clearer requirement:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0DODAGID: 128-bit IPv6 = address set by a DODAG root that uniquely
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0identifies a DODAG.=C2=A0 The DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv6
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0address belonging to the DODAG root.

[v11] Page 6-New text= : Orig= Node selects one of its IPv6 addresses and sets it in the DODAGID
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0fie= ld of the RREQ-DIO message.


5. Section S4.1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0TargNode can join the RREQ i= nstance at a Rank whose integer portion
=C2=A0=C2=A0is equal to the MaxRank.

Not less than or equal, right? Strict eq= uality to MaxRank is required?

[v11] Page 8, new tex= t: Targ= Node can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integer portion
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0is = less than or equal to the MaxRank.


6. Section 4.2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0TargNode sets its IPv6= address in the DODAGID field of the RREP-DIO
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREP-= DIO message MUST carry exactly one RREP option,

Same as #4.

[v11] Page 8, new tex= t: Targ= Node sets one of its IPv6 addresses in the DODAGID field of the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RRE= P-DIO message.


7. Section 4.2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0Address Vector
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Only prese= nt when the H bit is set to 0.=C2=A0 For an asymmetric route,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the Addres= s Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the route that
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the RREP-D= IO has passed.

The first time I read through this, I di= dn=E2=80=99t understand it at all. On
re-reading, I think you=E2=80=99re using= the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in two different ways in the
same sentence, the first time to mean = =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the sense of an object in the
protocol, the second time in the more ca= sual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path through the
network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80=99s righ= t, I suggest rewriting the second instance, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6
represents the IPv6 addresses of the pat= h through the network the RREP-DIO has
Traversed.=E2=80=9D

[v11] Page 10, new text: Address Vector
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Only present when the H bit is set to 0.=C2=A0 For an asymmetric route,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addresses of the path
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0through the network the RREP-DIO has passed.

Passed was not change= d to Traversed.=C2=A0


Also, as in point #4, is it right to say= *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn=E2=80=99t any
given node have various IPv6 addresses? = So maybe just lose the definite
article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 repres= ents IPv6 addresses of the path=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D?

8. Section 4.3:

=C2=A0=C2=A0r
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0A one-bit = reserved field.=C2=A0 This field MUST be initialized to zero
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0by the sen= der and MUST be ignored by the receiver.

The figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2= =80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume the field labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D should be
relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D?=

[v11] Page 11: change= d to X.

9. Section 5:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Figure 4.=C2=A0 If an = intermediate router sends out RREQ-DIO with the S
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0bit set to 1, then all= the one-hop links on the route from the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0OrigNode O to this rou= ter meet the requirements of route discovery,

On first reading I didn=E2=80=99t unders= tand this. Having read the whole document, I
now get it (I think!). Possibly changing= =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Chave met=E2=80=9D would have been
enough to get me past my initial befuddl= ement.

[v11] Page 11: change= d to =E2=80=9Chas met=E2=80=9D

10. Section 5:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The criteria used to d= etermine whether or not each link is symmetric
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0is beyond the scope of= the document.=C2=A0 For instance, intermediate

Should be =E2=80=9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 i= s beyond", or "criteria =E2=80=A6 are beyond", depending on
whether you want singular or plural.

[v11] Page12, No= t Corrected. [Can this be addressed by the RFC Editor?]


11. Section 5:

=C2=A0=C2=A0routers can use local inform= ation (e.g., bit rate, bandwidth, number
=C2=A0=C2=A0of cells used in 6tisch)

I wouldn=E2=80=99t have minded a referen= ce for 6tisch.

[v11]Page 12, referen= ce added, new text: ...cells used in 6tisch [RFC9030])...


12. Section 5:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Upon receiving a RREQ-= DIO with the S bit set to 1, a node determines
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0whether this one-hop l= ink can be used symmetrically, i.e., both the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0two directions meet th= e requirements of data transmission.=C2=A0 If the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-DIO arrives over = an interface that is not known to be symmetric,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0or is known to be asym= metric, the S bit is set to 0.=C2=A0 If the S bit
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0arrives already set to= be '0', it is set to be '0' on retransmission

The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80= =9D seems misused here. I guess you mean something like
=E2=80=9Cwhen the RREQ-DIO is propagated= =E2=80=9D.

[v11] Page 12, change= d to propagated: ..w= hen the RREQ-DIO is propagated.

13. Section 5:

=C2=A0=C2=A0Appendix A describes an exam= ple method using the upstream Expected
=C2=A0=C2=A0Number of Transmissions"= ; (ETX) and downstream Received Signal
=C2=A0=C2=A0Strength Indicator (RSSI) to= estimate whether the link is symmetric
=C2=A0=C2=A0in terms of link quality is = given in using an averaging technique.

This sentence needs a rewrite to make it= grammatical. It works up until "is
given in using an averaging technique=E2= =80=9D.

[v11] Page 13, new te= xt: =E2=80=9C Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream Expected
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Num= ber of Transmissions (ETX) and downstream Received Signal Strength
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ind= icator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is symmetric in terms
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0of = link quality using an averaging technique.=E2=80=9D

14. Section 6.2.1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the S b= it in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 1, the router MUST
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0determine = whether each direction of the link (by which the RREQ-
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0DIO is rec= eived) satisfies the Objective Function.=C2=A0 In case that
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the downwa= rd (i.e. towards the TargNode) direction of the link
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0does not s= atisfy the Objective Function, the link can't be used
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0symmetrica= lly, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DIO to be sent out MUST
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0be set as = 0.=C2=A0 If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the router= MUST determine into the upward direction (towards the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0OrigNode) = of the link.

The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99t make s= ense.

[v11] Page 14, Step 1= section was re-written, new text:=E2=80=9DStep 1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The router MUST first determine whether to propagate the RREQ-DIO.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0It does this by determining whether or not the downstream
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0direction of the incoming link satisfies the Objective Function
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0(OF).=C2=A0 If not the RREQ-DIO MUST be dropped, and the following
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0steps are not processed.=C2=A0 Otherwise, the router MUST join the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-Instance and prepare to propagate the RREQ-DIO.=C2=A0 The upstream
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0neighbor router that transmitted the received RREQ-DIO is selected
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0as the preferred parent.=E2=80=9D

15. Section 6.2.1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the rou= ter is an intermediate router, then it transmits a RREQ-
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0DIO via li= nk-local multicast;

On what interface? Routers generally can= have multiple interfaces. Again, this
is a place a clear description of the ne= twork environment might have helped.

[v11] Page 15, Step 4= new text as follows: =E2=80=9CStep 4:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The router checks whether one of its addresses is included in one
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0of the ART Options.=C2=A0 If so, this router is one of the TargNodes.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Otherwise, it is an intermediate router.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If the router is an intermediate router, then it transmits the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-DIO via link-local multicast; if the H bit is set to 0, the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0intermediate router MUST include the address of the interface
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0receiving the RREQ-DIO into the address vector.=C2=A0 Otherwise, the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0router is TargNode; if it was not already associated with the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-Instance, it prepares and transmits a RREP-DIO (Section 6.3).
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If, on the other hand, TargNode was already associated with the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREQ-Instance, it takes no further action and does not send an
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RREP-DIO.=E2=80=9D

16. Section 6.2.2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0If the OrigNode tries to rea= ch multiple TargNodes in a single RREQ-
=C2=A0=C2=A0Instance, one of the TargNod= es can be an intermediate router to the
=C2=A0=C2=A0others, therefore it MUST co= ntinue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other
=C2=A0=C2=A0targets.=C2=A0 In this case,= before rebroadcasting the RREQ-DIO

The use of the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast= =E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is this =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D in the RF
sense? Again, this is a place a clear de= scription of the network environment
might have helped.

[v11] Page 16, rebroa= dcasting changed to transmitting, new text states: =E2=80=9C If the OrigNode tries to reach mul= tiple TargNodes in a single RREQ-
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ins= tance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate router to the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0oth= ers, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to reach other
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0tar= gets.=C2=A0 In this case, before transmitting the RREQ-DIO via link-
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0loc= al multicast, a TargNode MUST delete the Target Option
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0enc= apsulating its own address, so that downstream routers with higher
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ran= k values do not try to create a route to this TargNode.=E2=80=9D

17. Section 6.2.2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0send out any RREQ-DIO.=C2=A0= For the purposes of determining the
=C2=A0=C2=A0intersection with previous i= ncoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate
=C2=A0=C2=A0router maintains a record of= the targets that have been requested
=C2=A0=C2=A0associated with the RREQ-Ins= tance.=C2=A0 Any RREQ-DIO message with
=C2=A0=C2=A0different ART Options coming= from a router with higher Rank is
=C2=A0=C2=A0ignored.

It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last= sentence goes with the previous and if so,
how. Does it even relate to multiple tar= gets? Also, different from what? If it
has the same ART Options (same as what?)= is it *not* ignored?

[v11] Page 16, new te= xt: =E2=80=9C ...If the intersection is empty, it
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mea= ns that all the targets have been reached, and the router MUST NOT
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0tra= nsmit any RREQ-DIO.=C2=A0 For the purposes of determining the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0int= ersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediate
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0rou= ter maintains a record of the targets that have been requested for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0a g= iven RREQ-Instance.=C2=A0 Any incoming RREQ-DIO message having multiple
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0ART= Options coming from a router with higher Rank than the Rank of
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the= stored targets is ignored.=E2=80=9D

18. Section 6.3.1:

=C2=A0=C2=A0implementation-specific and = out of scope.=C2=A0 If the implementation
=C2=A0=C2=A0selects the symmetric route,= and the L bit is not 0, the TargNode MAY
=C2=A0=C2=A0delay transmitting the RREP-= DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TIME to await
=C2=A0=C2=A0a symmetric route with a low= er Rank.=C2=A0 The value of RREP_WAIT_TIME is
=C2=A0=C2=A0set by default to 1/4 of the= time duration determined by the L bit.

It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it=E2= =80=99s an L field.

[v11] L bit was chang= ed to L field in the document

19. Section 6.3.2:

=C2=A0=C2=A0multicast until the OrigNode= is reached or MaxRank is exceeded.=C2=A0 The
=C2=A0=C2=A0TargNode MAY delay transmitt= ing the RREP-DIO for duration
=C2=A0=C2=A0RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a ro= ute with a lower Rank.=C2=A0 The value of
=C2=A0=C2=A0RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by def= ault to 1/4 of the time duration
=C2=A0=C2=A0determined by the L bit.

Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, wh= at if L is zero? Is RREP_WAIT_TIME set to
infinity, as the text implies?
Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL= bit=E2=80=9D, as there are additional instances I
haven=E2=80=99t called out.

[v11] L bit was chang= ed to L field in the document

20. Section 6.4:

=C2=A0=C2=A0Step 4:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0If t= he receiver is the OrigNode, it can start transmitting the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0appl= ication data to TargNode along the path as provided in RREP-
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Inst= ance, and processing for the RREP-DIO is complete.=C2=A0 Otherwise,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0in c= ase of an asymmetric route, the intermediate router MUST
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0incl= ude the address of the interface receiving the RREP-DIO into
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the = address vector, and then transmit the RREP-DIO via link-local
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mult= icast.=C2=A0 In case of a symmetric route, the RREP-DIO message is

As with #15: on what interface(s)?

[v11] Page 19,= =C2=A0 Step 4 first paragraph remains the same,
Charlie made a q= uestion: =E2=80=9C Are we assuming a single interface?=E2=80=9D
----------------= ------------------------------------------------------
RESPONSE to Comm= ent 20:
----------------= ------------------------------------------------------
AODV-RPL routers= can have multiple router interfaces.=C2=A0 Per-node
configuration of= "RREP-DIO transmission interfaces" is an administrative
feature which is= beyond the scope of the document.

21. Section 10:

=C2=A0=C2=A0fake AODV-RPL route discover= ies.=C2=A0 In this type of scenario, RPL's
=C2=A0=C2=A0preinstalled mode of operati= on, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL
=C2=A0=C2=A0route discovery is preinstal= led, SHOULD be used.

What type of scenario is that?
[V11] Page 22, new te= xt: When= rogue routers might be=C2=A0 present, RPL's preinstalled mode of opera= tion, where the key to use=C2=A0 for route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used.


22. Appendix A:

s/pakcet/packet/

[V11] Page 25, fixed.= =C2=A0

23. General remark:

Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80= =9D isn=E2=80=99t a required section I was a little surprised
not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usu= ally present. Your call of course.

[v11] Added

Thank you very much,

Ines.=C2=A0

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:58 AM Charli= e Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hello John,

It's taken a while for me to get to this, please excuse the delay. I have some followup to your comments interspersed below.

On 4/19/2021 1:31 PM, John Scudder via Datatracker wrote:
> John Scudder has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> A lot of effort has clearly gone into this work, thank you. I do have = one topic
> I want to DISCUSS, as it seriously impacted the readability of the doc= ument
> from my point of view. I don=E2=80=99t anticipate that it will be very= difficult to
> resolve this DISCUSS as it relates to clarity and not to anything fund= amental.
>
> My chief difficulty with the document is placing it in context. No hin= ts are
> given to the reader as to what the expected network environment is. I = think it
> would be almost sufficient to say, for example =E2=80=9Cthe network en= vironment is
> assumed to be the same as described in RFC 6550, Section 1=E2=80=9D fo= r example, but
> without that hint and without a strong background in ROLL, I found mys= elf
> struggling. Figures 4 and 5 in particular lead me to believe the expec= ted
> environment looks similar to a classic ISP network =E2=80=94 a collect= ion of nodes
> connected by point-to-point links. If this isn=E2=80=99t correct (and = I bet it=E2=80=99s not)
> that may have led me into incorrect assumptions, which may be reflecte= d in my
> other comments below.
>
> Further, it=E2=80=99s not stated anywhere whether AODV-RPL is intended= to stand alone
> as its own routing protocol, or to be viewed as an extension of RPL. I= n the
> former case, it seems the document is lacking details that are present= in RFC
> 6550. I=E2=80=99m assuming the latter is the case, but a clear stateme= nt to that effect
> seems indicated.
How about this text:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Routing Protocol for Low-Power and Lossy Networks (RPL) = [RFC6550] is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an IPv6 distance vector routing protocol designed to sup= port multiple
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 traffic flows through a root-based Destination-Oriented = Directed
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Acyclic Graph (DODAG).=C2=A0 Typically, a router does no= t have routing
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 information for most other routers.=C2=A0 Consequently, = for traffic
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 between routers within the DODAG (i.e., Point-to-Point (= P2P) traffic)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 data packets either have to traverse the root in non-sto= ring mode, or
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 traverse a common ancestor in storing mode.=C2=A0 Such P= 2P traffic is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 thereby likely to traverse longer routes and may suffer = severe
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 congestion near the root (for more information see [RFC6= 997],
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC6998]). The network environment that is considered i= n this document
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 assumed to be the same as described in Section 1 of [RFC= 6550].

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> 1. Section 1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Reply.=C2=A0 AODV-RPL currently omits some features= compared to AODV -- in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0particular, flagging Route Errors, blacklisting uni= directional links,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multihoming, and handling unnumbered interfaces. >
> Your use of language is entirely up to you, but I feel obliged to poin= t out
> that there=E2=80=99s been a lot of discussion in the IETF community re= cently about use
> of language that raises sensitive points, and about the term =E2=80=9C= blacklisting=E2=80=9D in
> particular. I understand that this is the only place in the document t= he term
> appears, and since it refers to AODV you can=E2=80=99t just use anothe= r term, but
> placing it in quotation marks might make it clear that it=E2=80=99s re= ferring verbatim
> to the language of RFC 3561.

This is an evolving issue.=C2=A0 I am fine with using quotes but otherwise =
maintaining consistent terminology.=C2=A0 For instance,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 AODV-RPL currently omits some features compared to= AODV -- in
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 particular, flagging Route Errors, "blacklist= ing" unidirectional links
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC3561], multihoming, and handling unnumbered in= terfaces.

If there is an official list of terms to search for please let us know.

>
> 2. Section 1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for storing and non-storing modes.=C2=A0 AODV add= s basic messages
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RREQ and RREP as part of RPL DIO (DODAG Information Objec= t) control
>
> Did you mean =E2=80=9CAODV-RPL adds=E2=80=9D?
Yes, will fix.

>
> 3. Section 2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Symmetric route
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The upstream and downstream routes traverse= the same routers.
>
> Same routers? Or same links? (Or both, if multi-access links are part = of the
> mix, as I imagine they may be?)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The upstream and downstream routes tra= verse the same routers and over
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the same links.
> 4. Section 4.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OrigNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field= of the RREQ-DIO
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREQ-DIO message MUST carry exactl= y one RREQ option,
>
> Should that say =E2=80=9Cone of its IPv6 addresses"? Is it even n= ecessary to restate
> this? RFC 6550 =C2=A76.3.1 already has a clearer requirement:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DODAGID: 128-bit IPv6 address set by a DODAG root t= hat uniquely
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0identifies a DODAG.=C2=A0 The = DODAGID MUST be a routable IPv6
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address belonging to the DODAG= root.

I'm not quite sure what is requested.=C2=A0 Should it be "OrigNode= sets the
DODAGID field", relying on the definition provided in RFC 6550? Should=
it be "OrigNode sets one of its routable IPv6 address in the DODAGID f= ield"?
Honestly, I thought the meaning was clear.=C2=A0 Unless there is an
objection, I reckon we will use the latter wording.

>
> 5. Section S4.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose integ= er portion
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is equal to the MaxRank.
>
> Not less than or equal, right? Strict equality to MaxRank is required?=
The existing text isn't good.=C2=A0 Instead,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TargNode can join the RREQ instance at a Rank whose inte= ger portion
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is less than the MaxRank.


> 6. Section 4.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0TargNode sets its IPv6 address in the DODAGID field= of the RREP-DIO
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0message.=C2=A0 A RREP-DIO message MUST carry exactl= y one RREP option,
>
> Same as #4.
>
> 7. Section 4.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Address Vector
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Only present when the H bit is set to 0.=C2= =A0 For an asymmetric route,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the Address Vector represents the IPv6 addre= sses of the route that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the RREP-DIO has passed.
>
> The first time I read through this, I didn=E2=80=99t understand it at = all. On
> re-reading, I think you=E2=80=99re using the word =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80= =9D in two different ways in the
> same sentence, the first time to mean =E2=80=9Croute=E2=80=9D in the s= ense of an object in the
> protocol, the second time in the more casual sense of =E2=80=9Ca path = through the
> network=E2=80=9D. If that=E2=80=99s right, I suggest rewriting the sec= ond instance, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6
> represents the IPv6 addresses of the path through the network the RREP= -DIO has
> traversed.=E2=80=9D
>
> Also, as in point #4, is it right to say *the* IPv6 addresses? Couldn= =E2=80=99t any
> given node have various IPv6 addresses? So maybe just lose the definit= e
> article, as in =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 represents IPv6 addresses of the pat= h=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D?

Good point.=C2=A0 We will use your formulation.

>
> 8. Section 4.3:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A one-bit reserved field.=C2=A0 This field M= UST be initialized to zero
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by the sender and MUST be ignored by the rec= eiver.
>
> The figure doesn=E2=80=99t show an =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D field. I assume= the field labeled =E2=80=9CX=E2=80=9D should be
> relabeled as =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D?
Actually, the description should refer to an "X" field, not an &q= uot;r"
field.=C2=A0 We will update.


>
> 9. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Figure 4.=C2=A0 If an intermediate router sends out= RREQ-DIO with the S
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bit set to 1, then all the one-hop links on the rou= te from the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OrigNode O to this router meet the requirements of = route discovery,
>
> On first reading I didn=E2=80=99t understand this. Having read the who= le document, I
> now get it (I think!). Possibly changing =E2=80=9Cmeet=E2=80=9D to =E2= =80=9Chave met=E2=80=9D would have been
> enough to get me past my initial befuddlement.

Yes, that's better.

>
> 10. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The criteria used to determine whether or not each = link is symmetric
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is beyond the scope of the document.=C2=A0 For inst= ance, intermediate
>
> Should be =E2=80=9Ccriterion =E2=80=A6 is beyond", or "crite= ria =E2=80=A6 are beyond", depending on
> whether you want singular or plural.
We will use "criteria =E2=80=A6 are beyond".

>
> 11. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 routers can use local information (e.g., bit rate, bandwi= dth, number
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of cells used in 6tisch)
>
> I wouldn=E2=80=99t have minded a reference for 6tisch.
No problem.

>
> 12. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Upon receiving a RREQ-DIO with the S bit set to 1, = a node determines
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whether this one-hop link can be used symmetrically= , i.e., both the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0two directions meet the requirements of data transm= ission.=C2=A0 If the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RREQ-DIO arrives over an interface that is not know= n to be symmetric,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or is known to be asymmetric, the S bit is set to 0= .=C2=A0 If the S bit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0arrives already set to be '0', it is set to= be '0' on retransmission
>
> The term =E2=80=9Cretransmission=E2=80=9D seems misused here. I guess = you mean something like
> =E2=80=9Cwhen the RREQ-DIO is propagated=E2=80=9D.
That is better.=C2=A0 We will use that.

>
> 13. Section 5:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Appendix A describes an example method using the upstream= Expected
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream Receiv= ed Signal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the link is= symmetric
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in terms of link quality is given in using an averaging t= echnique.
>
> This sentence needs a rewrite to make it grammatical. It works up unti= l "is
> given in using an averaging technique=E2=80=9D.
How about:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Appendix A describes an example method using the u= pstream Expected
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Number of Transmissions" (ETX) and downstream= Received Signal
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Strength Indicator (RSSI) to estimate whether the = link is symmetric
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in terms of link quality using an averaging techni= que.


>
> 14. Section 6.2.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set= to 1, the router MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0determine whether each direction of the link= (by which the RREQ-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DIO is received) satisfies the Objective Fun= ction.=C2=A0 In case that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the downward (i.e. towards the TargNode) dir= ection of the link
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0does not satisfy the Objective Function, the= link can't be used
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0symmetrically, thus the S bit of the RREQ-DI= O to be sent out MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be set as 0.=C2=A0 If the S bit in the recei= ved RREQ-DIO is set to 0,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the router MUST determine into the upward di= rection (towards the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OrigNode) of the link.
>
> The last sentence doesn=E2=80=99t make sense.
How about:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ...=C2=A0 If the S bit in the received RREQ-DIO is set to 0= ,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the router MUST determine the upward directi= on (towards the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 OrigNode) of the link.
>
> 15. Section 6.2.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If the router is an intermediate router, the= n it transmits a RREQ-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DIO via link-local multicast;
>
> On what interface? Routers generally can have multiple interfaces. Aga= in, this
> is a place a clear description of the network environment might have h= elped.

The link-local multicast should go out over all local interfaces.

>
> 16. Section 6.2.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the OrigNode tries to reach multiple TargNodes in a si= ngle RREQ-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Instance, one of the TargNodes can be an intermediate rou= ter to the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 others, therefore it MUST continue sending RREQ-DIO to re= ach other
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 targets.=C2=A0 In this case, before rebroadcasting the RR= EQ-DIO
>
> The use of the term =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D here confuses me. Is t= his =E2=80=9Cbroadcast=E2=80=9D in the RF
> sense? Again, this is a place a clear description of the network envir= onment
> might have helped.
This needs to be reformulated to avoid suggesting anything about RF
broadcast.=C2=A0 TBD.

>
> 17. Section 6.2.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 send out any RREQ-DIO.=C2=A0 For the purposes of determin= ing the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the interm= ediate
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 router maintains a record of the targets that have been r= equested
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 associated with the RREQ-Instance.=C2=A0 Any RREQ-DIO mes= sage with
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 different ART Options coming from a router with higher Ra= nk is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ignored.
>
> It=E2=80=99s not clear to me if the last sentence goes with the previo= us and if so,
> how. Does it even relate to multiple targets? Also, different from wha= t? If it
> has the same ART Options (same as what?) is it *not* ignored?
How about:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ..... =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 For the purposes of
determining the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 intersection with previous incoming RREQ-DIOs, the intermediat= e
=C2=A0=C2=A0 router maintains a record of the targets that have been reques= ted
=C2=A0=C2=A0 associated with the RREQ-Instance. Any incoming RREQ-DIO messa= ge having
=C2=A0=C2=A0 multiple ART Options coming from a router with higher Rank tha= n the
Rank of
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the stored targets is ignored.

>
> 18. Section 6.3.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 implementation-specific and out of scope.=C2=A0 If the im= plementation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 selects the symmetric route, and the L bit is not 0, the = TargNode MAY
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration RREP_WAIT_TI= ME to await
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a symmetric route with a lower Rank.=C2=A0 The value of R= REP_WAIT_TIME is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 set by default to 1/4 of the time duration determined by = the L bit.
>
> It=E2=80=99s not an L bit though, it=E2=80=99s an L field.
Good point!

>
> 19. Section 6.3.2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 multicast until the OrigNode is reached or MaxRank is exc= eeded.=C2=A0 The
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TargNode MAY delay transmitting the RREP-DIO for duration=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RREP_WAIT_TIME to await a route with a lower Rank.=C2=A0 = The value of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RREP_WAIT_TIME is set by default to 1/4 of the time durat= ion
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 determined by the L bit.
>
> Again, it=E2=80=99s an L field. Also, what if L is zero? Is RREP_WAIT_= TIME set to
> infinity, as the text implies?
Thanks for pointing this out.=C2=A0 We need to be explicit about it.=C2=A0 = I don't
think the RREP_WAIT_TIME should ever be zero or infinity. But, if it
were, the implementations would still be interoperable in a sense.=C2=A0 Do=
we really want to get into exactly what wait times make sense in this
context?


>
> Please do a global search for =E2=80=9CL bit=E2=80=9D, as there are ad= ditional instances I
> haven=E2=80=99t called out.
>
> 20. Section 6.4:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Step 4:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the receiver is the OrigNode, it can sta= rt transmitting the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 application data to TargNode along the path= as provided in RREP-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Instance, and processing for the RREP-DIO i= s complete.=C2=A0 Otherwise,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in case of an asymmetric route, the interme= diate router MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 include the address of the interface receiv= ing the RREP-DIO into
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the address vector, and then transmit the R= REP-DIO via link-local
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 multicast.=C2=A0 In case of a symmetric rou= te, the RREP-DIO message is
>
> As with #15: on what interface(s)?
It should go out to all the neighbors over multiple interfaces if necessary= .

>
> 21. Section 10:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 fake AODV-RPL route discoveries.=C2=A0 In this type of sc= enario, RPL's
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for = a P2P-RPL
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used.
>
> What type of scenario is that?

=C2=A0=C2=A0"In this type of scenario" -> "When rogue rou= ters might be present"

>
> 22. Appendix A:
>
> s/pakcet/packet/
Check.
>
> 23. General remark:
>
> Although =E2=80=9Cacknowledgements=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t a required s= ection I was a little surprised
> not to encounter it, as it=E2=80=99s usually present. Your call of cou= rse.
Acknowledgements are due to a lot of people - thanks for the reminder!

Naturally Yours,
Charlie P.


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dj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_4C51FD1AAA1047C9BAC0B41C294F10BEjunipernet_-- From nobody Tue Nov 9 01:50:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320193A0D20; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:50:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <163645145413.20796.12120322614905393656@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 01:50:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-capabilities-09.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 09:50:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : RPL Capabilities Authors : Rahul Arvind Jadhav Pascal Thubert Michael Richardson Rabi Narayan Sahoo Filename : draft-ietf-roll-capabilities-09.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2021-11-09 Abstract: This draft enables the discovery, advertisement and query of capabilities for RPL nodes. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-capabilities/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-capabilities-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-capabilities-09 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 9 02:26:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EEB23A0E1F; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 02:26:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <163645360920.4381.7965617841358067708@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 02:26:49 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mopex-04.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 10:26:49 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : Mode of Operation extension Authors : Rahul Arvind Jadhav Pascal Thubert Michael Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-roll-mopex-04.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2021-11-09 Abstract: RPL allows different mode of operations which allows nodes to have a consensus on the basic primitives that must be supported to join the network. The MOP field in [RFC6550] is of 3 bits and is fast depleting. This document extends the MOP for future use. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-mopex/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-mopex-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-mopex-04 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 10 02:00:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE293A0C8B for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:00:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=googlemail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PB8nzDFGJqxu for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com (mail-ua1-x934.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2E763A0C82 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id v3so3536727uam.10 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:00:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Zo3ggHJma1UiQ6C1Bz40462avfeHfncBxf4/IkKY5JQ=; b=C9CUYctJc8vPo48TilftmRcPIgpKPEvcFgIDGae4rsXsBrDcXr+dAhbngFyokvOqm5 N0X+5mcXIVjvNZfRkMX5smFmpsT0OPV5Ky2sQe5aNqbOnJ06lKy3hlu3aXHs9HbnfjsB GZyumsxEYs2N0LO2/Ai/ZFSygWCdYwsuDZE6zWfMT9yczMsLOECCx2jCdlhk+BRsuzRr iFvqI39yyJweHBS/r5t04AB4c0r3inMl9/ao4y46XhHB/gwHdgXEJgA8SVNMuROXm0KK 1GNPYy0XB/a5smMV0ahgWDliGgNw4TJ7ZCTp6Du0g2ePOAspIzrJDsrFP0uNnSFoYhvm VcmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Zo3ggHJma1UiQ6C1Bz40462avfeHfncBxf4/IkKY5JQ=; b=G2G9XxZFw4MJY7wc1NsHbj9AuU7xQgmhUhE768uK7itrjh8eHqWa87kOe6akkvSvHa Z3EUwObNnEr2AfjNRth2gUuRYZU3myCEwFyNxKB1p1nFBAw8MSCnZbLQvQaaGED/bbWC 1uB2zf8Ivcfm++T/DF0VokFZVPblMg7Ff6CqeA1LFYpf7rwZJKFlR1UwkrajUX37qupD YA6uPpkeH9PMZJW/P2hihnS2HLqMk+Qih6OZZ7Ivq7ylm/aa/TCS3LZD1HCsvL9BOSnn Mjnt+KJ06yTyzo0QyuMQk+Rala9afPi65tKDcXeSZUvxLLUoRiW6OPjYtCV4iXZ+8di0 dq/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ySr0ukfNk8DmrEjXUi8L6IUdG5ZUgQF40PWNna0M8gGIuJgjG lXJwyyqSTaBPY6/OIm+a4LqkoLGwtzrGFE8pg5dXJPfzmSM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwlJ+ZQpXa+Y5ZfR014ByjtV52t5SEgthkAwVd10a/RfF50NorF9g5kQ4+oMQh7s92gWmpdfIFfKjihqT3nT/w= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fb05:: with SMTP id d5mr53847597vsr.41.1636538424481; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:00:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ines Robles Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 11:59:48 +0200 Message-ID: To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073d94105d06c4b4e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] Agenda - IETF 112 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:00:32 -0000 --00000000000073d94105d06c4b4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, Please find the complete set of the slides for today's meeting https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/slides-112-roll-ietf112-roll-completeset-01 Comments welcome, Thanks, Ines and Dominique On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 9:25 PM Ines Robles wrote: > Dear all, > > Please find below the link to the ROLL Agenda for the IETF112, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/agenda-112-roll-02 > > @Dear Presenters, please submit or send to us the slides in pdf format by > 5th November. > > Comments welcome, > > Thank you, > > Ines and Dominique > --00000000000073d94105d06c4b4e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

Please f= ind the complete set of the slides for today's meeting
Comments welcome,

Thanks,
=

Ines and Dominique

On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 9:25 PM= Ines Robles <mariain= esrobles@googlemail.com> wrote:
Dear all,

Pl= ease find below the link to the ROLL Agenda for the IETF112,=C2=A0


@Dear= Presenters, please submit or send to us the slides in pdf=C2=A0format by 5= th November.=C2=A0

Comments welcome,

Thank you,

Ines and Dominique
--00000000000073d94105d06c4b4e-- From nobody Wed Nov 10 04:21:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B953A0EC0 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 04:21:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=googlemail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BMdGSl5RS1gG for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 04:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-x936.google.com (mail-ua1-x936.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::936]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 608133A0EB5 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 04:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-x936.google.com with SMTP id q13so4333518uaq.2 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 04:21:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W3QO1YsZQhfyBMzqRboO3Azjk0nKwsWf7h8qXZl8VOE=; b=ctoVOyyyPd1copIzZCk8jgK2MB4a1jIrVJiC+kqbm2e0QZFcdyrGLOad6NAYKjWRbG fcBivLJpBybuFXDiRpTgeIJxTizATFKxcwgP1HkmGwkXLgXz+RZo99wswcElt8plznnA gi4sKO3CJTmoR816oiPj8DnLtj/wft7wHiWt9sY4bxgrslOfWx+6RHM/8nE0i3VT/5M5 owpUe7QtlQW1ddqAsPB9wR9qw7jdugOKaQK9v/qxISeKKSebGggRALlM8SlNzwNt5tu/ aUxL3+ljDaUPNRO6k62I7tyqFs8iZrZIEZrb0A5JFpAXiOlIrZPDMLQaNEoySmSVdMJm k5sA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W3QO1YsZQhfyBMzqRboO3Azjk0nKwsWf7h8qXZl8VOE=; b=eSvGX3ggWvk3khvqtuG3WObSOSehy9sBcOmV3Joq8u20R3Oo9lwQadbVgfBzOoEF45 CO/a2MiNeAE/j9oMn8lN+SWBo6zamuv1UrMo+Rr/8AIyDt2COWrVOOrPLkzpXma0Gi+t ORMwrhsjjXEpM0vUUfHfD+BOLQv9teVLHVKtnBexdvKb7PwyfB87QcmgLONPIEj3ER+J nWrVF4AIEkS/DSeksA23adl5s/GDomLkwVqzI+MhX/kfN2q3oTlErsNmwk2++v3EMup1 E96uueD2L4bKLP8V5kFcNv6acAW254AFirIA2E06OrStXVJ9trdgKQYmnasropK5bY0M zRMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532gorVk3zWG5O4JEJDn7myt5raYpT61OGCudjk8PY5O/OI0lzaq UwnBcvAmF0fZAFphXSBoBpioBkbcGnAwSZ267vKshqWo X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx3Kfgd7a/ypvwcQh+jXbkmPYq5M0MBEYYxRYB8yI119Gu3WW0KYL8hqdIgXOLm/cXSZQ0FO8+rYkJ/7vyHAo4= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fb05:: with SMTP id d5mr55164187vsr.41.1636546869501; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 04:21:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ines Robles Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 14:20:33 +0200 Message-ID: To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d0a14b05d06e4246" Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] IETF 112 - Slides X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 12:21:14 -0000 --000000000000d0a14b05d06e4246 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, Please find an updated version of the slides https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/slides-112-roll-ietf112-roll-completeset-02 BR, Ines On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 11:59 AM Ines Robles wrote: > Dear all, > > Please find the complete set of the slides for today's meeting > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/slides-112-roll-ietf112-roll-completeset-01 > > Comments welcome, > > Thanks, > > Ines and Dominique > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 9:25 PM Ines Robles < > mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Please find below the link to the ROLL Agenda for the IETF112, >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/agenda-112-roll-02 >> >> @Dear Presenters, please submit or send to us the slides in pdf format by >> 5th November. >> >> Comments welcome, >> >> Thank you, >> >> Ines and Dominique >> > --000000000000d0a14b05d06e4246 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

Please f= ind an updated version of the slides


BR,=
Ines=C2=A0

On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 11:59 AM Ines Robles &l= t;mariainesrobles@googlem= ail.com> wrote:
Dear all,

P= lease find the complete set of the slides for today's meeting


Comments welcome,
Thanks,

Ines and Dominique
=
On Sun= , Oct 31, 2021 at 9:25 PM Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> = wrote:
Dear all,

Please find below the link to the= ROLL Agenda for the IETF112,=C2=A0


@Dear Presenters, please submit or = send to us the slides in pdf=C2=A0format by 5th November.=C2=A0

Comments welcome,

Thank you,

Ines and Dominique
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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Nov 2021 15:48:49.6173 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: b4+atarL1Wj9ka9Qb7n0kZtc4no8mIQt+snvlSaxSQcKRQK0dzw7iAr26Czah5y7K17/e012EebztROMROxT7A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1613 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xbe-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Heads-up on draft-ietf-6lo-multicast-registration X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 15:48:58 -0000 Dear all: With draft-ietf-6lo-multicast-registration, 6lo is extending the IPv6 state= ful address autoconfiguration (RFC 8505/8928) to express that the node is a= ccepting traffic for an anycast address and to subscribe to multicast addre= sses. The model is a proactive push from the device, compared to MLD reports that= pulls from the router. There are a number for reasons for doing this that = way in energy conscious networks, where multicast and broadcasts are mostly= prohibited, and devices sleep most of their time. Also the incremental cod= e on constrained devices that operate IPv6 ND as per RFC 8505 is very minim= al. The proactive model allows the router to inject the MAC and IP information = in a network overlay routing or a proxy function in a fashion that is more = reliable and economical than the classical snooping of MLD and ND. This is = why it is used in RFC 8929 for proxy ND, and proposed for use in RIFT and n= ow eVPN as the IGP-agnostic UNI between the host and the router.=20 Since we are extending the registration from unicast to anycast and multica= st, Erik and Alvaro suggested that we raise the topic on this list as well.= =20 I would certainly be happy to help folks are interesting in drafting how su= bscriptions learned from this new work can be injected in PIM as well. Keep safe; Pascal From nobody Wed Nov 17 15:55:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32333A00DF for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:55:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bgQBKSz19Qh7 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E64CE3A0101 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F232E18013 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id IgUVHh_Er65F for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:57:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57941800C for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:57:40 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1637193460; bh=aZX05M20UZCEMcDxvYwJfZdMDDtdddiIhCOPLldxdFs=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=4GzRG53anVY12pOnYtp7GREPnWSI5mO77ir5HXgoP94P8VdDf8a6Op+NcU/a+K2Fn Uh+nwhZhx7eUIptcIONCMhTeOZ0uyMuY9w2/iB/FrGknjSxq8VcFyVbgxIz/+Hh7QP 1dVvGSjjD3x61NB2c3kA8tqCTfMIG4iA9lYgX4vQAB6UHxZW8GbTHS4gFVbKjpl2G9 zTvMIRzfy6D6K98NldXbPiBv1AUbPrWaRm0LFtX4BGdkDYVoBuNsh+ZAeGeFmoqD0y OFihbX92TG5tQGXjfTIK8lmTCFY01/1hMTd/aPbCuQgE0G4UKnMidWKfj1xDDkmWhL G2luJbuLT4tiQ== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F380BA4D for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:55:13 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: roll@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] review of dao-projection -21 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:55:31 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rahul and I (via hypothys.is) want to know why "anistropic" was part of the= introduction sentence. It's not wrong, but it seems funny to suddenly have this so prominent. I have made a number of editorial suggestions, most are typos, some word re-ordering, which I put into: https://github.com/roll-wg/dao-projection/pu= ll/10 rather than bore you with minutia. On the whole, the document is much improved, but I think that it still needs some significant rework. You might want to consider upgrading to kramdown for your source, and then change your ascii art to something goat can upgrade to SVG. https://github.com/blampe/goat A major issue for me is how things get turned on. Does this document wait for capex? probably? I know that I'm probably the slow/weak link in the capex chain. The intro paragraph: > With this specification, a Path Computation Element [PCE] in an external > controller interacts with the RPL Root to compute centrally shorter Peer > to Peer (P2P) paths within a pre-existing RPL Main DODAG. The topologic= al > information that is passed to the PCE is derived from the DODAG that is > already available at the Root in RPL Non-Storing Mode. This specificati= on > introduces protocol extensions that enrich the topological information > that is available at the Root and passed to the PCE. and I am concerned about the emphasis on PCE. Of course, we can support offloading to a PCE. But, we don't have to, do we? As far as I understand it, the PCE/DODAG-Root protocol is yet-to-be-standar= dized. What we are standardizing is Root->6LR communication. I will suggest some text after my read-through. What I don't want is for someone to read the intro, say, "I don't have a PCE, so I can't use this" The document says, "Root or an associated PCE " a few times, so maybe we could just call it the "P-DAO engine" or something like that. _Domain Terms_ Terminology for path. Maybe don't "", since there is an embedded "path". maybe just indent? Maybe, instead of trying to make a definition list for this section, make subsections, because I think that each term here actually requires more than a sentence. _subTrack_ or sub-track? 1) Not fond of camelcase in specifications. 2) too much definition here. Supports above suggest to make these sub-se= ctions. Probably need to define what is East-West before we use it. What is "routing stretch"? section 3.2: } Packets flow via the common parent and the routing stretch is reduced } vs. Non-Storing, for a better P2P connectivity, while the internet } connectivity is restored more slowly, time for the DV operation to oper= ate } hop-by-hop. Too many thoughts in the same sentence. Could be a word missing? I think that I understand Storing is better for P2P connectivity, but the other thought about connectivity is lost in the mix. section 3.3.1: } It results that the Root, or then some associated centralized computation } engine such as a PCE, can determine the amount of packets that reach a } destination in the RPL domain, and thus the amount of energy and bandwid= th } that is wasted for transmission, between itself and the destination, as = well } as the risk of fragmentation, any potential delays because of a paths lo= nger } than necessary (shorter paths exist that would not traverse the Root). I tried to re-write this, putting a period after "RPL domain", but what was left over didn't make sense. Please rewrite with shorter sentences. section 3.3.2, is "INternet" capitalized like this for a reason? The diagram in section 3.3.2 would be a good SVG candidate. Have you tried "goat"? "The amount of stretch depends on the Mode of Operation:" add reference RFC9008? section 3.4: "so-called Track Legs" ... I think the terminology says they are called Tra= ck Legs, so I think "so-called" is unneeded text. (ps: so now I have ZZtop in my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DeUDcTLaWJuo ) "With this specification, a Track forms DODAG that is directed towards a Track Ingress." There is perhaps a word missing ("a DODAG"?), but even with the article, I don't understand what this means. Overall, I think that I need a gentler introduction to Segments, Legs, Track Legs. I think that section 3.4 needs a diagram for examples, such as those which were in the presentations that we had. There are diagrams in 3.5, but I think that maybe section 3.4/3.5 needs to be reworked so that the definitions come out with the diagrams. The last two paragraphs of 3.4 are about how Tracks are indexed. I think that section should be a new section. The different cases in the last paragraph need to be subsubsections so that they can be referred to. "stitching" point... needs a definition, I think. I didn't find table 2 (RIB setting) useful without a better diagram to atta= ch the information to. InstanceID 129 just pops up, and I'm not sure exactly= why. section 3.5.1.1 and 3.5.1.2 are different examples, I suggest that the P-DAO messages are numbered differently. (1,2,3) and (4,5,6). I would understand this only by getting out paper and coloured pens and reading each word carefully. I think it needs to be a bit easier to unders= tand. section 3.6 at the end, *detnet* appears, and this is surprising. I think section 3.6 should be 4.0, or maybe before section 8. section 4.1: "A new P-DAO Request (PDR) message (see Section 5.1) enables a Track Ingress to request the Track from the __Root for which it is the Root__ and it owns= the address that serves as TrackID, as well as the associated namespace from which it selects the TrackID." too long sentence, and I can't understand the __middle__ part. I suggest section 4 identify when it Updates, whether it is Amending, See-Also or Extending. 4.1.1. is, for instance, Extends. Whereas the last paragraph of 4.1 is Amends. I think that section 4.1.1 should just tell us about P-DAO, not define it. I was expecting section 5 to define it. Last paragraph of 4.1.1 is about TIO/RIO, and deserves it's own Amends section. section 6. The PDR message came as a surprise. Probably I wasn't paying attention. I think that the Root sends a P-DAO, and then the node in question replies with a PDR as a maintenance function. A kind of 3-way handshake on creating the track, I think. I think that the 3-way-ness of this should be in the intro. Figure 14: I think a better diagram is needed, rather than repeating the LLN diagram. section 6.4: The SRH-6LoRH with the Via Addresses in the NSM-VIO are not needed and MU= ST be omitted. =2D> The SRH-6LoRH with the Via Addresses in the NSM-VIO are not needed and MU= ST be ignored by the receiver. (I always prefer to tell the receiver what to discard, rather than tell the sender what to omit) 6.5.2: "It makes sense to add a new Leg before removing one that is misbehaving, and switch to the new Leg before removing the old. " does it? if the old one is misbehaving, wouldn't removing it send traffic u= p to the root (according to non-optimized flow), allowing traffic to flow rather than get dropped? yes, there are some cases where this doesn't work. section 6.6: "When forwarding a packet to a destination for which a router determines that routing happens via a Track for which it is Ingress= ," can you reword? Sounds like the Marx Brothers sketch about a the party of = the first party... (_A Day at the Races_) I think that the MTU statement deserves its own section, probably in sectio= n 4. section 7: how are the extra DAOs turned on in storing mode? CAPEX seems to be in order here? section 8: i like these profiles. We do need diagrams. (again, SVG and goat may be very nice to use) Do the profiles need to be announced in some place in the protocol? section 9: I don't think that the new risk for forged P-DAOs is adequately explained. Can we at least authenticate P-DAO messages because th= ey come from the Root? Sometimes the Root IP address is the same as th= e DODAGID. (but not always? I forget) I would like to see some section that explains the additions/changes *just* from the 6LR point of view. What new attributes need to be added to the routes? Most of the data path stuff is, I think, longest prefix match, and then possible encapsulation. RFC9008 probably has provided all the primitives. (I hope!) But, I'd like to see a state machine of sorts that relates the P-DAO, DAO-ACK and PDR/PDR-ACK messages. I fear that the SHOULD/MUSTs/new-ICMPs messages are too spread over the document. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmGVlmEACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVchgf/Sr26FADvRO1ENZO7TwnB+fmEPr05b3W53EkRVWyso59EXTuV3WdyBkZW xg3aTTuZVn9z5UuV8tPvJmN8YdZrJwo70PXgfizA8wKEjc+lzB0Pqbd8VrpIUk/j hZBg31rzLqmH4hJs2onc4VAErwXfVOU/ye3SSh+2u2AAZvKTIs4TrVYFeqjQ0SA+ LLXs7QWbf4dTGHJkXUenRkDMUoP+6r/ZH/63OvDVttxCoWGWty+RLarzPdvfUmMx kjmumARqQKHa7LK9lJrFpns8LIgfio9NFLhbC5Q8BBVxtfRl6HWVmhI8Y0lDzEnM wFIiMZcKFIjLZoa6HP4BUg0E5eCUMQ== =O2aD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Nov 18 07:05:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73253A082B for ; Thu, 18 Nov 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Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] On anisotropic X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 16:41:05 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > The term anisotropic came up mostly in the elaboration of RIFT, which > inherits that design property from RPL. The term has been used there > for a while and it seemed fair to give it back to the protocol that > introduced it. I don't think we were disagreeing with the term, we just weren't sure why it was important to mention it now. You've explained that, so good! =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmGWghUACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUbqwf+IGlMLWVlNv6W1PjTbMDDwb1yJZKdxH44yN94vnWuTsre5n4r5qbrvMoy SocR8WwrrSZqVH1INVHhhWE6Y9653RqjsXbK6pkHpHmp8DxXJB91cz9BPm5pQoFh 4ZoqO7YoAoMr1fOLY/ip5iZycxPPqT/f+mpE0LHFz6+xrqCbm5mXB25joYGqnj8o ls3AmL/+4mzKnnWMLliZH9wIQRfN6jqAsm66/ai0zLZxrNaXP+FansKd80PBUmg1 boLPA9H4CJYFRToA/8+PBhSAb9Ym2w/CKHBinAbRq4zUjFvamkd3xchUD8iXQ9cG z9+32T8URj7SBxqsoNv5QnLYTkC/6w== =ebUM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Nov 19 11:03:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DEF3A09C6 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:03:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1dpMM-R5DBIU for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEFD73A09C9 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id v1so13218944edx.2 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:03:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=p86qKvOEKzJOHp7Ge+4ML22BQ0HtcvRoQxUpRe6SokY=; b=Sg1ml/b/2zJJv5QzaXlzBBfnwUHqMqAlcETHvMPhg8purX0gLChfAIZXenXaAwAm7R I30G9VwlEVEzKo5f8zVNtnP27jUilPUkFuvKd33f5v+3nBjEiUetmamdQGj58FLYhd8t 95r7xE711zNPixJxVV3JDYmbwj2OyA8Hd69gtzWb2CpMgmyVNsXrc9xBzSqFr8sLOlog 08/GzeJFcjKym1tZwnjCafW2yzVqEalb7GC2wfvswzr7IcotcKK6D0P8zhQ7bJ9uTliW AUnrNagAXTw0j7sF6l8254FIjrfrTthx8pVEKC8rfsPV9/ttHBjdrjCbqGB/3wzC+ksh LMUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=p86qKvOEKzJOHp7Ge+4ML22BQ0HtcvRoQxUpRe6SokY=; b=XNknpb2m5C4VR05Fm/h+1aVwTdn00ahrmkl7ghfn0VVqhPeRRhG7CFSDikTfyjFJFt R4ANimgAepIGhC+YfC3xgP0BUEk9Pt35BL/VAnQ6c0fL1Z4OKPJdmcs1plr++Vuf+Xvg S7qPRxJxMXvok1v8BiA+v2xZGWWEduRjwH/PMHHOjd9BxEFqJwa1DL/byYHX8T8UJnRV PBu+38BTDkwBi4fBd1JqtvwY6VOdoGf8VGW7VEuxq0cHiqC7+VtW7iUIIoHq23SvISdN z68htHOJ8IpVPHrUGHusm8kiCpWa6cI+XTdZACfNGOuI94/EPFvzYwtJt4TSDKFI/x9U av7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533NWGLf7PXDV1mio1sFhZ2nrnSkMncm9nJId4X9IbEHYIcudpng WV9sYOhVntI2BaJZs+tVJl2Q2JytuewJQmrnbHa/790Kt0l2rw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxhJKCB3sBO4NgVjVOzfiO23+Xcqd6JCM9EPz47TfwvSaPVlRn6VWRPk2vGnEOx95TC07zgLhUeF1uu9cyn7LY= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:794a:: with SMTP id l10mr10532459ejo.192.1637348616194; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:03:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Rahul Jadhav Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 00:33:25 +0530 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a44bcc05d128ee11" Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] dao-projection review X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 19:03:44 -0000 --000000000000a44bcc05d128ee11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The document has come a long way and limiting it to certain modes (such as using strictly NSM for base/main MOP) has done a lot to simplify things. Following is my review: 1. In all the subsections of 3.5.1 ... there is a statement that "From Neighbor Cache Entry: C delivers the packet to F.". I believe it should be "E delivers the packet to F". This stmt is in subsection 3.5.1.1/2/3 I very much like section 3.5.1 and its subsections. These subsections have made understanding the draft much easier. 2. Apart from Path, Track, subTrack, Segment, there are few other terms used ... "Legs" used in Section 3.6 (also elsewhere) and "Section" used in Section 6.5. In section 3.6, the term Legs seems to be indicating the same as Path, i.e., multiple paths/legs can be combined to form a Track. In some other places (section 4.1.2), the usage of leg is more closer to Track then paths. In section 6.5 there is a statement, "This is ensured by installing the new section from its last node..." .. Is the section the same as the segment here? 3. The term "namespace" is used multiple times in the document. I believe it relates to the scope of the TrackID .. It would be better to define it explicitly. RPL does not use that term. 4. Section 4.1.1 specifies, "This specification generalizes the case of a parent that can be used to reach a child with that of a whole Track through which children and siblings of the Track Egress are reachable." I am not sure if I follow this. 5. In general the document does not seem to be considering backward compatibility with respect to new changes in RPI P flag, new messages added etc. Or am I wrong? Is section 8 "Profiles" supposed to take care of compatibility? 6. In Section 5.4: What exactly is the Step of Rank? Is it: 1. Difference between the rank of this node and the sibling? 2. DAGRank() as computed in Section 3.5.1 in RFC 6550? This needs to be explained with an example. Thank you for clarifying the term Anisotropic. Works great in the RPL context. Thanks, Rahul --000000000000a44bcc05d128ee11 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The document has come a long way and limiting it = to certain modes (such as using strictly NSM for base/main MOP) has done a = lot to simplify things.

Following is m= y review:

1. In all the subsections of 3.5= .1 ... there is a statement that "From Neighbor Cache Entry: C deliver= s the packet to F.". I believe it should be=C2=A0 "E delivers the= packet to F". This stmt is in subsection 3.5.1.1/2/3

I very much like sectio= n 3.5.1 and its subsections. These subsections have made understanding the= =C2=A0draft much easier.

2. Apart from Pat= h, Track, subTrack, Segment, there are few other terms used ... "Legs&= quot; used in Section 3.6 (also elsewhere) and "Section" used in = Section 6.5.
In section 3.6, the term Legs seems to be indica= ting the same as Path, i.e., multiple paths/legs can be combined to form a = Track. In some other places (section 4.1.2), the usage of leg is more close= r to Track then paths.
In section 6.5 there is a statement, &= quot;This is ensured by installing the new=C2=A0section from its las= t node..." .. Is the section the same as the segment here?

3. The term "namespace" is=C2= =A0used multiple times in the document. I believe=C2=A0it relates to the sc= ope=C2=A0of the TrackID .. It would be better to define it explicitly. RPL = does not use that term.

4. Section 4.1.1 s= pecifies, "This specification generalizes the=C2=A0case of a pa= rent that can be used to reach a child with that of a=C2=A0whole Tra= ck through which children and siblings of the Track Egress=C2=A0are = reachable."
I am not sure if I follow this.=C2=A0=

5. In general the documen= t does not seem to be considering backward compatibility with respect to ne= w changes in RPI P flag,=C2=A0new messages added etc. Or am I wrong? Is sec= tion 8 "Profiles" supposed to take care of compatibility?<= /div>

6. In Section 5.4:=C2=A0What exactl= y is the Step of Rank? Is it:
    1. Difference between the rank of this node and the si= bling?
    2. DAGRank() as computed in Section 3.5.1 in= RFC 6550? This needs to be explained with an example.
Thank you for clarifying the term Anisotropic. Works great in the= RPL context.=C2=A0

Thanks,
<= span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:= rgb(32,18,77)">Rahul
--000000000000a44bcc05d128ee11-- From nobody Mon Nov 22 06:15:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A16A3A0AFD for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:15:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qCaSmsS05Jfv for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 881953A0B04 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6A2C18063 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id X7TiKAGCLFCP for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:18:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1081802C for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:18:19 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1637590699; bh=Lg8z7T5a4ZTcJqNLsFr0pNeifM7obaboCSOzX/bNkY0=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=io3zjig8m+ieG4RieT+O09Vee6k1n9uMakiOVD8MKOCPgMeUsGz2Ygh6eUg2SqWvH jVPaVSHr/59Ic3zB+2nyirQcx5RfZuOuu7v/f72Y069EmLAXWtKbOz9Bs2Qj7c+GsB LsTsafAEDypL8nlpGLYj5buodvcnlLgApvd4HTYoiMhqUoAFNxaAC2+ZE6zioTADZW PsbJNn4WN0EJGyB26REizlYa6smlh/sbLr3Mumprq7j1KBBSyytHXY80mRfk7TZJKl NBb6DmOiI4fJy9ERihlpf1wvIQov49oEt+z+3PH+6lhEkvtTSU+X0ZuAjg5p0WXvb4 +0Fb8g4wZLEYg== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7BF324C for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:15:35 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: roll@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 14:15:47 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm trying to edit draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority to reflect the WG consensus. I think that we agreed that the nodes within the DODAG should not change their enrollment priority. It can be set by the root in it's DIO, and it will propogate through the DODAG according to the normal trickle settings. Changes to the priority will *not*(?!) reset the trickle timer. https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9 is the pull request I just made, which may be easier to see the changes. specifically, I've deleted this line: https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9/files= #diff-fe544a5ddaac2d404d7b76aa1204d54e36f5eb6618f3f52f0c0dc56dca4061faL169 The nodes then adjust this base value based upon their observed congestion, emitting their adjusted DIO value to their children. I actually find that there isn't a lot else to delete. I am concerned that I did not understand the WG consensus correctly, so I am have not yet published this version. Do we want to retain the ability for the root to send a value 0-0x7f into t= he DODAG, or was it only 0 and 1 that were useful? =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmGbpgcACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX0ewgAgWRq21LqcS2E1h47djQcCBIYmjLrGLoBxVWhd3Iuc+GX1J1NB1u2xZEY ww3X2O98u9yeKO29OApC4V6lRQX0UclaWYK2mn9uyDjzOYcArM31EXAzNUee1046 71HlHeqXYSscVfOgc4FidMf7v4lr0Bp9hlZkgQB4FrK++0ECyRC+ifoOYsqnWdcu ivBQ3V3qLQiPd7r0MnWrwplvjbDxdrszAURlB0X0J+7RM/p3wu/otc++dBe7uKOZ 1DBuTRoQ1dnmzF0mu5Xg3/c75R8k42zlXdm/bXVb1+F8TS6YTGMdMYVJnXw1J5Pb AigIM1mnu07ivabGZ2emtrBOpIdGXA== =cjnj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Nov 22 06:55:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA4F3A0BE1 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:55:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.852, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rLQAoOnCBh3h for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mimuw.edu.pl (mail.mimuw.edu.pl [193.0.96.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 276833A0BDD for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:55:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by duch.mimuw.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5E1D61F2F7F9; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:55:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mimuw.edu.pl Received: from duch.mimuw.edu.pl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mimuw.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id UE8O5czHzQf1; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:55:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPV6:2a02:a311:813e:880:2cb2:48b0:d1c4:4bca] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a311:813e:880:2cb2:48b0:d1c4:4bca]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by duch.mimuw.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:55:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <74673648-79a7-9611-5b71-b089a9a3e37e@mimuw.edu.pl> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:55:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.1 Content-Language: en-US To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , Michael Richardson References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> From: Konrad Iwanicki In-Reply-To: <30208.1637590535@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 14:55:20 -0000 Hi Michael, As we discussed throughout the mailing list, we also need a sequence number so that correct values of DODAG_Size and min_priority are adopted. This in turn requires putting more information in the draft on the rules of adopting the values. They are explicitly formulated in my earlier e-mail about GLOBAL vs FLEXIBLE. Take care, -- - Konrad Iwanicki. On 22/11/2021 15:15, Michael Richardson wrote: > > I'm trying to edit draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority to reflect the WG > consensus. > > I think that we agreed that the nodes within the DODAG should not change > their enrollment priority. It can be set by the root in it's DIO, and it > will propogate through the DODAG according to the normal trickle settings. > Changes to the priority will *not*(?!) reset the trickle timer. > > https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9 is the > pull request I just made, which may be easier to see the changes. > > specifically, I've deleted this line: > > https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9/files#diff-fe544a5ddaac2d404d7b76aa1204d54e36f5eb6618f3f52f0c0dc56dca4061faL169 > > The nodes then adjust this base value based upon their observed > congestion, emitting their adjusted DIO value to their children. > > I actually find that there isn't a lot else to delete. > > I am concerned that I did not understand the WG consensus correctly, so I am > have not yet published this version. > > Do we want to retain the ability for the root to send a value 0-0x7f into the DODAG, > or was it only 0 and 1 that were useful? > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > From nobody Mon Nov 22 12:49:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19923A0798 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:49:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=L7kT68K7; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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--_002_CO1PR11MB4881FA1B51733ECA29AAB33CD89F9CO1PR11MB4881namp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 22 13:07:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB163A07BE for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 13:07:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lYosS0cDn-pg for ; Mon, 22 Nov 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--_000_b39746cfde0745bba8db64cdcd513654orangecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We have posted minutes for our IETF112 ROLL session. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-112-roll/ Please have a look and report anything missing/incorrect by Dec 10th. We will post the final minutes by Dec 17th. Thanks! Dominique ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_b39746cfde0745bba8db64cdcd513654orangecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

We have posted minutes for our = IETF112 ROLL session.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-11= 2-roll/

Please have a look and report a= nything missing/incorrect by Dec 10th.

We will post the final minutes = by Dec 17th.

Thanks!

 

Dominique

 

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_b39746cfde0745bba8db64cdcd513654orangecom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 22 19:35:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A3E3A0D50 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 19:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5w2XGMjh50Pl for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 19:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com (mail-ed1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 780063A0D4E for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 19:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id x15so85515532edv.1 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 19:35:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7szR3+tjoz2vTqCL3rwcwysL28RMV/3qHokXxaRTHCY=; b=YgL/7P+SI4fTQm+QDj37Uzh3/sdkDGsHD1BVwtQIOmjsy7qs+XeUdxv6xeXeQixqtf 4I0qBT4GJtBtbL3UuzhI6/jm6dAoYAFR5B2TbTCz+OYWRCOWzlCph9E4LnP4d2XmjfIu avV7OBPYk7Vzio+C59+Q7/erN+VylGionqMQqQGa7lRN2VKjQ+J/gYXKBbbiJJ5SPe8l JnIR9h/9FcuY4rRd9ghkM9TWsspaYbagZW3O7yO3W5UwHmCODUx6iJzcnJQyAuQLsXij rpc+vTCnHt7wIcBRWm9wvha26A9Zjx6ojEKxlKS67JzdIzi3qWFgAT98SX2Q/P7wCZzU rvFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=7szR3+tjoz2vTqCL3rwcwysL28RMV/3qHokXxaRTHCY=; b=WXFJb6k+npK6hTsSPWeXU1r7CUPGPXFRHrv5zkw7PEZUww6opqmZe69BlMCgB/iTfq YkYOulp5oaCZRetyb+JVeTF8Q57TelXqSOfrPALItp2+PFeyvry7smw1xA+Vi/r6SSjJ SNt5vQLM14s9/S7SvAqBDQUFtjJuL5bMeuyo1uKAlOl69O1jVlqN81dbBwFSNlgYc1fH O2OpVpWqwKMry9QRmVayTjND89rHXjX2gbqUuqEgauUxud8q8GFyg6dAQHX+ky984BbC RdyTcNAjXto71X2BRK4qqL0R5+bXqyj4bz4ASwPzBd5twDNJcAOmeTQc3CCXZsvfJCbp kKSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533mLpjYhn62rHsdVxxcrqkNXp1iEo0SyOOLU08LzlIE88maabEC rvwd+1GP9y1eak7PxMNQzEKL6tvXSBJQU0h4z4IUke8auuE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyOqrAGAmczKwYw6eb0aIR7LuuaEoSGL5S6PMz4sXCRrzq9yN2opQ2KDuCfj4GZroWcuP/N6sE1ygYLRH4bMa4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:1689:: with SMTP id hc9mr3256514ejc.445.1637638529454; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 19:35:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> In-Reply-To: <30208.1637590535@localhost> From: Rahul Jadhav Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:05:18 +0530 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d195fa05d16c6e26" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 03:35:41 -0000 --000000000000d195fa05d16c6e26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Michael, Please find my review of the updates inline in the github PR . Few other comments inline below. Regards, Rahul On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 19:45, Michael Richardson wrote: > > I'm trying to edit draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority to reflect the WG > consensus. > > I think that we agreed that the nodes within the DODAG should not change > their enrollment priority. It can be set by the root in it's DIO, and it > will propogate through the DODAG according to the normal trickle settings= . > Changes to the priority will *not*(?!) reset the trickle timer. > Not resetting trickle timer has impact. It could take several hours for the updated option to percolate downstream in the network. I just wanted to say it loud here. > > https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9 is > the > pull request I just made, which may be easier to see the changes. > > specifically, I've deleted this line: > > > https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9/fil= es#diff-fe544a5ddaac2d404d7b76aa1204d54e36f5eb6618f3f52f0c0dc56dca4061faL16= 9 > > The nodes then adjust this base value based upon their observed > congestion, emitting their adjusted DIO value to their children. > > I actually find that there isn't a lot else to delete. > > I am concerned that I did not understand the WG consensus correctly, so I > am > have not yet published this version. > > Do we want to retain the ability for the root to send a value 0-0x7f into > the DODAG, > or was it only 0 and 1 that were useful? > The Root should have the ability to send any value into the DODAG. If Root is limited to value 0/1 and if it is not possible for any 6LRs to update the value then we might as well restrict the parameter size to 1 bit! Am I missing anything here? > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul= ting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > --000000000000d195fa05d16c6e26 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Michael,

<= /div>
Please find my review of the updates inline in the git= hub PR.
Few other comments inline below.
<= br>
Regards,
Rahul

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at = 19:45, Michael Richardson <mc= r+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

I'm trying to edit draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority to reflect the W= G
consensus.

I think that we agreed that the nodes within the DODAG should not change their enrollment priority.=C2=A0 It can be set by the root in it's DIO,= and it
will propogate through the DODAG according to the normal trickle settings.<= br> Changes to the priority will *not*(?!) reset the trickle timer.

Not resetting=C2=A0trickle timer ha= s impact. It could take several hours for the updated=C2=A0option to percol= ate downstream in the network. I just wanted to say it loud here.
=C2=A0

https://github.com/roll-wg/draf= t-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9 is the
pull request I just made, which may be easier to see the changes.

specifically, I've deleted this line:

https://github.com/roll-wg= /draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9/files#diff-fe544a5ddaac2d404d7b= 76aa1204d54e36f5eb6618f3f52f0c0dc56dca4061faL169

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The nodes then adjust this base value based upon their observe= d
=C2=A0 =C2=A0congestion, emitting their adjusted DIO value to their childre= n.

I actually find that there isn't a lot else to delete.

I am concerned that I did not understand the WG consensus correctly, so I a= m
have not yet published this version.

Do we want to retain the ability for the root to send a value 0-0x7f into t= he DODAG,
or was it only 0 and 1 that were useful?

The Root should have the ability to send any value into th= e DODAG. If Root is limited to value 0/1 and if it is not possible for any = 6LRs to update the value then we might as well restrict the parameter size = to 1 bit! Am I missing anything here?

=C2=A0

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>=C2=A0 =C2=A0. o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co= nsulting )
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sandelman Software Works Inc, Otta= wa and Worldwide
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
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+0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mimuw.edu.pl Received: from duch.mimuw.edu.pl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mimuw.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id pLrVXgQz_X18; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:00:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPV6:2a02:a311:813e:880:d51:4c28:6277:10aa] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a311:813e:880:d51:4c28:6277:10aa]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by duch.mimuw.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:00:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <59ff4342-f716-9048-9010-72813ee63948@mimuw.edu.pl> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:00:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.1 Content-Language: en-US To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Michael Richardson References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> <74673648-79a7-9611-5b71-b089a9a3e37e@mimuw.edu.pl> From: Konrad Iwanicki In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:00:40 -0000 Hi all, On 23/11/2021 06:49, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Hello Michael > > Please see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2021-roll-02-202108311800/ > > We agreed that: > - as Konrad says again here we need a new lollipop counter > - as Rahul points out in his review the min priority is propagated unchanged in DIOs, what I understand Konrad calls GLOBAL > - as Huimin said on Aug 19th we must define the behavior of the node, which logic to use to increment the minimum priority from the DIO to place in the beacon. > > GLOBAL vs FLEXIBLE was discussed, and I answered Konrad about the FLEXIBLE on Aug. 12th (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/2MaZ4wXLVzJbmLC-LO6c--DsbWQ/) > I do not see a use case for it, so it looks like overdesign but I'm open to be convinced otherwise Precisely, we agreed on what I call GLOBAL. In addition, from the discussion in my e-mail, there are two additional issues outstanding (one was mentioned by Michael). I believe we did not come to a conclusion regarding them: - How do changes to min priority (and OSN) affect DIO Trickle timers? [OSN == the lollipop sequence counter] - How does a (temporal) lack of a preferred parent affect the proxy priority of the node in EBs (and in general, the node's behavior)? Best, -- - Konrad Iwanicki. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roll On Behalf Of Konrad Iwanicki >> Sent: lundi 22 novembre 2021 15:55 >> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks ; Michael >> Richardson >> Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority >> >> Hi Michael, >> >> As we discussed throughout the mailing list, we also need a sequence number >> so that correct values of DODAG_Size and min_priority are adopted. This in >> turn requires putting more information in the draft on the rules of >> adopting the values. They are explicitly formulated in my earlier e-mail >> about GLOBAL vs FLEXIBLE. >> >> Take care, >> -- >> - Konrad Iwanicki. >> >> On 22/11/2021 15:15, Michael Richardson wrote: >>> >>> I'm trying to edit draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority to reflect the >>> WG consensus. >>> >>> I think that we agreed that the nodes within the DODAG should not >>> change their enrollment priority. It can be set by the root in it's >>> DIO, and it will propogate through the DODAG according to the normal >> trickle settings. >>> Changes to the priority will *not*(?!) reset the trickle timer. >>> >>> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9 >>> is the pull request I just made, which may be easier to see the changes. >>> >>> specifically, I've deleted this line: >>> >>> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/9/ >>> files#diff-fe544a5ddaac2d404d7b76aa1204d54e36f5eb6618f3f52f0c0dc56dca4 >>> 061faL169 >>> >>> The nodes then adjust this base value based upon their observed >>> congestion, emitting their adjusted DIO value to their children. >>> >>> I actually find that there isn't a lot else to delete. >>> >>> I am concerned that I did not understand the WG consensus correctly, >>> so I am have not yet published this version. >>> >>> Do we want to retain the ability for the root to send a value 0-0x7f >>> into the DODAG, or was it only 0 and 1 that were useful? >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting >> ) >>> Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Roll mailing list >>> Roll@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > From nobody Tue Nov 23 02:46:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271863A003C for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:46:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y3gL1awdBhtq for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4496A3A0028 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1990C18062; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 05:48:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 2LZ_gkL2jeYy; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 05:48:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B988818012; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 05:48:39 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1637664519; bh=K6g6VPJs/vTCs6asB31fhRCdFJUY04of7rB2bWFZbRM=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=cozcCrFQgkg6TF060lkWL9zVWyLVwTFZOdWZS3VTEsaXtrxqI+/2XXBQtcqNmtTSF QvWdmV8nQsW+37jNhU3DhxFoKrGX9cYtl4arqI63lFnKxiHrCXhujocjQR16Ycnz7S zeAfmXC9IEXOx2+m7XNCqpQF6QF+a+hj/aZ4yqtmvOo2QUEWmx83qE1+NJy3A6ZZ1H AtkGLo5aF5icAwyZSno864Plk7mVTL+UO1SUx2T5Ydy+0QSIKu3QvBU79mkIzgdYSz bNuCBGxMdeSiktpdBLr/eiwApR7EbxPavswZ7O8xBL13JmFYs342r59sttBiJGEk+u nL0m22UJPvvxw== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C08128B; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 05:45:52 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\)" , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: References: <1193.1637193313@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] review of dao-projection -21 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:46:11 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >> Rahul and I (via hypothys.is) want to know why "anistropic" was part= of >> the introduction sentence. It's not wrong, but it seems funny to >> suddenly have this so prominent. > I opened a separate thread for this. What is hypothys.is ? A group commenting system that Rahul and I happen to both use. (Who remembers Netscape Group Annotations?... ) >> You might want to consider upgrading to kramdown for your source, and >> then change your ascii art to something goat can upgrade to SVG. >> https://github.com/blampe/goat > I'm not that fond of kramdown, that's an extra step for me, and I use= it when I must. > Goat seems orthogonal, I love it but lack time for fun to learn throu= gh the IETF procedure. > Look at https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-rift-rift-13.pdf; = good yes, perfect, no. Worth the effort ? Yes, worth the effort. Goat lets you write ASCII art in a slightly restricted way, and it upgrades it to SVG. The reason to use kramdown here is only because it manages that for you. >> A major issue for me is how things get turned on. >> Does this document wait for capex? probably? I know that I'm proba= bly >> the slow/weak link in the capex chain. > It would have largely benefitted from capex if capex was there. > For now it will be configuration / management. So I can use it only after I know that all nodes support it. > See section 3.7 " > The "6TiSCH Architecture" [6TiSCH-ARCHI] leverages a centralized > model that is similar to that of "Deterministic Networking > Architecture" [RFC8655], whereby the device resources and > capabilities are exposed to an external controller which installs > routing states into the network based on its own objective functions > that reside in that external entity. > " > The management magic tells the root which node supports this and their > capacity. It's all done outside RPL. I'm okay that the PCE/Root interface is outside RPL, and even that it's non-standard. Some roots could include the PCE internally, I think. > " > With this specification, an abstract routing function called a Path > Computation Element [PCE] (e.g., located in an central controller or > collocated with the Root) interacts with the RPL Root to compute Peer > to Peer (P2P) paths within a pre-existing RPL Main DODAG. " >> The document says, "Root or an associated PCE " a few times, so maybe >> we could just call it the "P-DAO engine" or something like that. > I like using the standard term if that's abstract enough Works for me. >> Maybe, instead of trying to make a definition list for this section, >> make subsections, because I think that each term here actually requi= res >> more than a sentence. >> >> _subTrack_ or sub-track? >> 1) Not fond of camelcase in specifications. > This is common with the RAW architecture. I can uplift both but it's > work to do and undo, so I'd like to see a consensus. > Maybe make it an item to resolve for the WGLC? okay. > " > 2.4.4. Routing Stretch: > RPL is anisotropic, meaning that it is directional, or more exactly > polar. RPL does not behave the same way "down" with multicast DIO [wearing my dad-is-teenager-chemistry-tutor hat now wants to know if routing can be both covalent and polar... ] > The term Routing Stretch denotes the length of a path, as compared > with a shortest path, which can be a abstract concepts in RPL when > the metrics are statistical and dynamic, and the concept of short > varies with the Objective Function. Thanks >> >> section 3.4: >> "so-called Track Legs" ... I think the terminology says they are cal= led >> Track Legs, so I think "so-called" is unneeded text. >> (ps: so now I have ZZtop in my head: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DeUDcTLaWJuo ) > Excellent! Done. The text can be a bit more explicit, more in the ful= l excerpt below; But, can we make ZZtop the theme song for this document? :-) "RPL has Legs... and PCE knows how to use them!" >> "stitching" point... needs a definition, I think. > " > 2.4.9. Stitching: > This specification using the term stitching to indicate that a track > is piped to another one, meaning that traffic out of the first is > injected in the other. > " > Works? Good. >> I suggest section 4 identify when it Updates, whether it is Amending, > Argll you're killing me :) I still do not understand what "updates" m= eans and now we amend? There is a document trying to detail this, I'm just suggesting we get ahead of that. > We do not break anything in existence if that is the question. Amends doesn't mean break... it means that there is new work. > Following your line of thought I should make that a different section, > but it seems to me with this is really too picky. if you can imagine a project manager assigning the work to two different people, then a new section would help. "Bob, implement 4.5.6.9. Sian, implement 4.5.6.8" > I already created many sections in the definition ad in section 3. Th= is > will be the draft of one sentence per section. That's okay with me, if they need to be easily referenced. As, it, "Hey other implementer, you didn't do 4.5.6.7 correctly!" >> Last paragraph of 4.1.1 is about TIO/RIO, and deserves it's own Amen= ds >> section. > I do not see why that is an amendment? The TIO/RIO discussion is toda= y's RPL as is. okay. >> I think that the 3-way-ness of this should be in the intro. > Let's take that as a potential addition to be discussed on the ML, too > big for me to yes/no just here okay. >> section 6.4: >> The SRH-6LoRH with the Via Addresses in the NSM-VIO are not needed >> and MUST be omitted. -> >> The SRH-6LoRH with the Via Addresses in the NSM-VIO are not needed >> and MUST >> be ignored by the receiver. >> >> (I always prefer to tell the receiver what to discard, rather than t= ell >> the sender what to omit) > OK still sending it wastes energy and may cause a packet loss. What a= bout Of course, it's stupid to send stuff that is not necessary. Until... it becomes necessary, so knowing how the receiver will respond is the important detail. >> 6.5.2: >> "It makes sense to add a new Leg before removing one that is >> misbehaving, and switch to the new Leg before removing the old. >> " >> >> does it? if the old one is misbehaving, wouldn't removing it send >> traffic up to the root (according to non-optimized flow), allowing >> traffic to flow rather than get dropped? yes, there are some cases >> where this doesn't work. > " > It makes sense to > add a new Leg before removing one that is becoming excessively lossy, > and switch to the new Leg before removing the old. Dropping a Track > before the new one is installed would reroute the traffic via the > root; this may augment the latency beyond acceptable thresholds, and > load the network near the root. This may also cause loops in the > case of stitched Tracks; the packets that cannot be injected in the > second Track may be routed back at reinjected at the Ingress of the > first." Works for me. >> section 8: i like these profiles. We do need diagrams. >> (again, SVG and goat may be very nice to use) Do the profiles >> need to be announced in some place in the protocol? > Argl, I do not see that. Hopefully not? okay. >> >> section 9: I don't think that the new risk for forged P-DAOs is >> adequately >> explained. Can we at least authenticate P-DAO messages >> because they >> come from the Root? Sometimes the Root IP address is the same >> as the DODAGID. >> (but not always? I forget) > For P-DAO it is, yes. But we do not secure messages from the root. Th= at > would be nice. How can we do that? I'm okay if we say that only the root (identified by IP address) can send t= hem. >> RFC9008 probably has >> provided all the primitives. (I hope!) But, I'd like to see a state >> machine of sorts that relates the P-DAO, DAO-ACK and PDR/PDR-ACK >> messages. > Again, I'd like to see this agreed by the WG. Would that be normative? Probably. >> I fear that the SHOULD/MUSTs/new-ICMPs messages are too spread over = the >> document. > The previous review caused some restructuring. The more we do that the > more we spread. What do we prefer, stricture vs. MUSt concentration? Well, if we had the 6LR changes with state machine, then all the MUSTs would migrate to that section. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmGcxl8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW3GQf+Pd+r8pBsCrqkAlBXQhl+zu5pvcEcsSqHEjkKQ5G+320aJeLQDzrl6klR +AXrJaZuaIvPLhHuoC60zjiNfmPLgBxipUAnEEXEvhIh792YKn4BHBEiE0Dir3cs O8Nv6cGH+PbLY4P1VbGd7iZok8j/Ur8pDQDYSbM5qL+IJdQ3bzqldwzQBZHI9JqF Zvb6j1TmZ4Wwl8Pm9mEJxOp0u8NXZIxpPtPDDhCYvmUZnIjU9sApYDozGA2e2vXr JzsBBwMHJn11eBYJ3HLmGvcYHRXX3T9DX9cc4JVFs+4Nq4GxQGPzq0VPQ5lbwRN+ wb0gmSYy/myeOWeIjAWhrQk0nKix2Q== =gdyy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Nov 23 09:01:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A442A3A05A7 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:00:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jj-SzOZspfAl for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 755C63A05D0 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id z5so95187333edd.3 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:00:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Vna608ee01tu4OV5I9+aPZkV06nAPj1CB9ThUz2ag7U=; b=DFigAkjGpf/b2C3NTGBQq4AHMcf99xy+o4wy3432SPDY1F9PeXwsJS9y8dhCw1jezL TgJjQGcjyVfYgvJm/IZlbOg5W+48Fv6dYNF+VrEI+FlG4Zx4UTy1HiWRfPgBXwqIyZEb SfLsr+fpY4rcJtadzK2gzoXmqRhOwgqsuJK0CGCXrwXbg8ZaiWpnXKSmLNaLBYlCTTW5 6Ap8VbAOne24gN3Orer55gG7PKsvFY/zHn5Ig3fqt7wWnnNGWSTDEO0rpwgqHVl8G2XU fE/vLbghWgFc3SlvceW/7Goc2eiTdGTongOiLE5AgS+gBsCT0CyxtlZgLD03vaVvaZbb XPgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Vna608ee01tu4OV5I9+aPZkV06nAPj1CB9ThUz2ag7U=; b=VaSXp21cTwClQ+CmpX5nciYTcq3HPo/P7GZKhy2dL/TGWRifDZwq04PyD2rUM2O9ll JAL7AjEfRa/dBAXT4yNiZbC3b41O8MIMUdvJoNHKbvwV4s9Hrzv9vikzizzdW8inNj7f K9nm73dJr+pFZJpBh/vchsAvgalIqyA8DR010tgM54PwHBaVbQFqUWZn9y0rXiJ1tlMr z3yLdPG9c4OBfd++qu0oCMboxcajOHaDCvIXpblxQ4NMIWGwyLezF7sXJ2oS0Qb1KKOW Nk9x9qBhCZOfZ/f/ckbUkDTYcoqcusAaL/BL+1mmiKXvIVW7W3atriqNbbENs5lwZUjn 44+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533juxUHooTQZRLHJOddyJkrZ0W5lzrqzRYjD8Pku7ftC1hz+Pgl Wuyn7E/1Z1LIW45QrPYBoldjVxR05vjyV9okavcj+IbStKyqzg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqrXbVw3yQl0HlQs45m0mDdesTOt5USVcOlUOHEBW2e/pqATGotrlKbxXOikOxVUaPelMlOzQZCeZkoeuzS4A= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4fc4:: with SMTP id i4mr10191998ejw.81.1637686847687; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:00:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1193.1637193313@localhost> <28122.1637664352@localhost> In-Reply-To: <28122.1637664352@localhost> From: Rahul Jadhav Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 22:30:36 +0530 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cf4ea805d177aeec" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] review of dao-projection -21 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 17:01:00 -0000 --000000000000cf4ea805d177aeec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > I opened a separate thread for this. What is hypothys.is ? > > A group commenting system that Rahul and I happen to both use. > (Who remembers Netscape Group Annotations?... ) > A quick fix: It is https://hypothes.is/ It has been super useful for me for the past several years. I found someone highlighting the need for use of it in IETF in one of the lightning talk (ref draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-sheffer-ietf-rfc-annotations-00) .. It was a pleasant surprise to find Michael reply to one of the comments there! --000000000000cf4ea805d177aeec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I opened a separate thread for this. What is hypothys.is ?<= br>
A group commenting system that Rahul and I happen to both use.
(Who remembers Netscape Group Annotations?... )
<= /blockquote>

A quick fix: It is https://hypothes.is/
It has been super useful for me for the past several years. I found = someone highlighting the need for use of it in IETF in one of the lightning= talk (ref draft:=C2=A0https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/draft-sheffer-ietf-rfc-annotations-00) ..=C2=A0
It was a pleasant surprise to find Michael reply to one o= f the comments there!

=C2=A0
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h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Kwm5N1AyHRVjHp9ndNCDtc1fwY7a27czVP0yzuylwoE=; b=Zj7YpySEcZN4L3JfNwa/2jRzKgLeyFRQD3RT2HIN5Bc++Fcc2GSh3x7nnGL1aqDG1x Qqnk7NgGvqtj07NSHgKVhb19Yg/vuovG63hbqAeEjdRpexRvTuFpFKE/vRYcYhAyI1SL 9YCqvIk7nBdyBEgAlIsP1gabhg1cbAi4ySABlC1omV+NeIjrucHS6ctvfxeXRhwoQ70l 4YtFM77z0jxf7BE1++RGgpJGwss41gZF/7vbbJm5YnG2HkJw2FQiEnjmAZ/eAeZ8jpL6 GxHscIBy4sDQ9ux6Daz7mKaUnwbrYvm/wx72EZAJxUszLXmx8SVnkp8TOkaPdsz+PmRD 9huA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Kwm5N1AyHRVjHp9ndNCDtc1fwY7a27czVP0yzuylwoE=; b=jxAwkuK+gxR7hXSn6sCIRBBQRdN5vV2CUYLALCQXdWTjYKE1CrzXPDuvDlWklskpiH SE3D5XwcU4/jP7/VI4MHyGFxB5GAOxWMJF2SPaKRfg+QuAq72wyGcH8Gd1nJqFRt5ElZ TfJyasuW+K05OtbTKh3iHqak/BDTPmhl6WgkcsUvzOw/K74laSEdaUtIBkv7Jt18GYi4 0y6gU9rJessxL0VubuHR2ysCSZi8RTE8ehD6QFkfBFrAEOlXm+OgXqL0+gbbasaq0Jfv 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--000000000000705add05d1880b0c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many Thanks Pascal Please find my comments inline. Regards, Rahul On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at 23:34, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > > > > 1. In all the subsections of 3.5.1 ... there is a statement that "From > Neighbor Cache Entry: C delivers the packet to F.". I believe it shoul= d be > "E delivers the packet to F". This stmt is in subsection 3.5.1.1/2/3 > > > > PT > True, fixed both > [RJ] Thanks. Subsection 3.5.1.3 has the same statement and could use this fix as well. In all, there were three subsections with the same statement. > > > 2. Apart from Path, Track, subTrack, Segment, there are few other terms > used ... "Legs" used in Section 3.6 (also elsewhere) and "Section" used i= n > Section 6.5. > > In section 3.6, the term Legs seems to be indicating the same as Path, > i.e., multiple paths/legs can be combined to form a Track. In some other > places (section 4.1.2), the usage of leg is more closer to Track then pat= hs. > > In section 6.5 there is a statement, "This is ensured by installing the > new section from its last node..." .. Is the section the same as the > segment here? > > > > PT> let me define =E2=80=98section=E2=80=99 in terminology > > =E2=80=9C > > 2.4.13. Section of a Segment > > > > A continuous subset of a segment that may be replaced while the > > segment remains. for instance, in segment A=3D>B=3D>C=3D>D=3D>E=3D>F, = say that > > the link C to D might be misbehaving. The section B=3D>C=3D>D=3D>E in= the > > segment may be replaced by B=3D>C'=3D>D'=3D>E to route around the prob= lem. > > The segment becomes A=3D>B=3D>C'=3D>D'=3D>E=3D>F. > > =E2=80=9C > [RJ] This is clear to me now. > > > 1. The term "namespace" is used multiple times in the document. I > believe it relates to the scope of the TrackID .. It would be better t= o > define it explicitly. RPL does not use that term. > > PT> true. What about > > =E2=80=9C > > > > > > 2.4.1. namespace > > > > The term namespace is used to refer to the scope of the TrackID. The > > TrackID is locally significant within its namespace. The namespace > > is identified by an IPv6 Global Unicast Address (GUA) that is used as > > DODAGID for the Track. The tuple (DODAGID, TrackID) is globally > > unique. > > =E2=80=9C > [RJ] Much clearer. However, is it necessary to say "GUA" for DODAGID? Can't the DODAGID be a ULA (Unique Local Address, fc00::/64) wherein the PCE, Root and all the 6LRs are part of the same ULA network prefix? Does the DODAGID have to be "globally routable"? > > > 4. Section 4.1.1 specifies, "This specification generalizes the case of a > parent that can be used to reach a child with that of a whole Track throu= gh > which children and siblings of the Track Egress are reachable." > > I am not sure if I follow this. > > > > PT> reworded the section. I hope it=E2=80=99s more palatable now: > > =E2=80=9C > > In RPL Non-Storing Mode, the TIO and RTO are combined in a DAO message > to > > inform the DODAG Root of all the edges in the DODAG, which are formed > by the > > directed parent-child relationships. The DAO message signals to the Ro= ot > > that a given parent can be used to reach a given child. The P-DAO > message > > generalizes the DAO to signal to the Track Ingress that a Track for > which it > > is Root can be used to reach children and siblings of the Track Egress= . > > In both cases, options may be factorized and multiple RTOs may be > present to > > signal a collection of children that can be reached through the parent > or > > the Track, respectively. > > =E2=80=9C > > > [RJ] Now I get it. Thanks > > > > > 5. In general the document does not seem to be considering backward > compatibility with respect to new changes in RPI P flag, new messages add= ed > etc. Or am I wrong? Is section 8 "Profiles" supposed to take care of > compatibility? > > > > PT> True. I asked in my reply to Michael=E2=80=99s review whether we shou= ld be > using the last free but in the RPL dodag config option to signal that thi= s > spec is being used globally, and both anycast and multicast can be > injected. What do you think? > [RJ] I would rather have it explicitly specified as "Backward Compatibility Considerations" section, since I am sure we will get this comment during next higher-level reviews. > > > 6. In Section 5.4: What exactly is the Step of Rank? Is it: > > 1. Difference between the rank of this node and the sibling? > 2. DAGRank() as computed in Section 3.5.1 in RFC 6550? This needs > to be explained with an example. > > If Rank is a cost then that would be the cost for the hop to the sibling. > What about: > > =E2=80=9C > > Step in Rank: 16-bit unsigned integer. This is the Step in Rank > > [RPL] as computed by the Objective Function between this node and > > the sibling, that reflects the abstract Rank increment that would > > be computed by the OF if the sibling was the preferred parent. > > > > =E2=80=9C > [RJ] "... computed by the OF if the sibling was the preferred parent." clarifies things for me. --000000000000705add05d1880b0c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many Thanks Pascal=C2=A0

Please find my comments inline.
<= br>
Regards,
Rahul

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at = 23:34, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


=C2=A0

  1. In all the subsections of 3.5.1 ... = there is a statement that "From Neighbor Cache Entry: C delivers the p= acket to F.". I believe it should be=C2=A0 "E delivers the packet to F". This stmt is in subsection 3.5.1.1/2/3

=C2=A0

PT > True, fixed both


[RJ] Thanks. Subs= ection 3.5.1.3 has the same statement and could use this fix as well. In al= l, there were three subsections with the same statement.
= =C2=A0
=

= =C2=A0

2. Apart from Path, Track, subTrack, Segment,= there are few other terms used ... "Legs" used in Section 3.6 (a= lso elsewhere) and "Section" used in Section 6.5.

= In section 3.6, the term Legs seems to be indicating the same as Pat= h, i.e., multiple paths/legs can be combined to form a Track. In some other places (section 4.1.2), the usage of leg is= more closer to Track then paths.

= In section 6.5 there is a statement, "This is ensured by installing the new=C2=A0section from its last node..." = .. Is the section the same as the segment here?

=C2=A0

PT> let me define =E2=80=98section=E2=80=99 in terminology<= u>

=E2=80=9C

2.4.13.=C2=A0 Section of a Segment

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 A continuous subset of = a segment that may be replaced while the

=C2=A0=C2=A0 segment remains. for in= stance, in segment A=3D>B=3D>C=3D>D=3D>E=3D>F, say that

=C2=A0=C2=A0 the link C to D might b= e misbehaving.=C2=A0 The section B=3D>C=3D>D=3D>E in the=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 segment may be replaced= by B=3D>C'=3D>D'=3D>E to route around the problem.=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The segment becomes A=3D>B=3D>C'=3D>= D'=3D>E=3D>F.

=E2=80=9C


[RJ] This is clear to me now.
=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

  1. The term "namespace" is=C2= =A0used multiple times in the document. I believe=C2=A0it relates to the sc= ope=C2=A0of the TrackID .. It would be better to define it explicitly. RPL does not use that term.

PT> true. What about<= /font>

=E2=80=9C<= /font>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

2.4.1= .=C2=A0 namespace

=C2=A0

=C2= =A0=C2=A0 The term namespace is used to refer to the scope of the TrackID.= =C2=A0 The

=C2= =A0=C2=A0 TrackID is locally significant within its namespace.=C2=A0 The na= mespace

=C2= =A0=C2=A0 is identified by an IPv6 Global Unicast Ad= dress (GUA) that is used as

=C2= =A0=C2=A0 DODAGID for the Track.=C2=A0 The tuple (DODAGID, TrackID) is glob= ally

=C2=A0=C2=A0 unique.<= /u>

=E2=80=9C


[= RJ] Much clearer. However, is it necessary to say "GUA" for DODAG= ID? Can't the DODAGID be a ULA (Unique Local Address, fc00::/64) wherei= n the PCE, Root and all the 6LRs are part of the same ULA network prefix? D= oes the DODAGID have to be "globally routable"?

=C2=A0
<= div>

<= /font>

= =C2=A0

= 4. Section 4.1.1 specifies, "This specification generalizes the=C2=A0case of a parent that can be used to re= ach a child with that of a=C2=A0whole Track through which children and sibl= ings of the Track Egress=C2=A0are reachable."

I am not sure if I follow this.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

PT> reworded the section. I hope it=E2=80=99s more palatabl= e now:

=E2=80=9C

=C2=A0=C2=A0 In RPL Non-Storing Mode= , the TIO and RTO are combined in a DAO message to

=C2=A0=C2=A0 inform the DODAG Root o= f all the edges in the DODAG, which are formed by the<= /font>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 directed parent-child r= elationships. The DAO message signals to the Root

=C2=A0=C2=A0 that a given parent can= be used to reach a given child. The P-DAO message

=C2=A0=C2=A0 generalizes the DAO to = signal to the Track Ingress that a Track for which it<= /font>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 is Root can be used to = reach children and siblings of the Track Egress.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 In both cases, options = may be factorized and multiple RTOs may be present to<= /font>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 signal a collection of = children that can be reached through the parent or

=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Track, respectively.

=E2=80=9C

=C2=A0

<= /blockquote>
[RJ] Now I get it. Thanks=C2=A0

=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

5. In general the document does not seem to be considering backward comp= atibility with respect to new changes in RPI P flag,=C2=A0new messages added etc. Or am I wrong? Is section 8 "Pro= files" supposed to take care of compatibility?

=C2=A0

PT> True. I asked in my reply to Michael=E2=80=99s review w= hether we should be using the last free but in the RPL dodag config option = to signal that this spec is being used globally, and both anycast and multicast can be injected. What do you think?<= /font>


[RJ] I would rather have it explicitly specified as "Backward = Compatibility Considerations" section, since I am sure we will get thi= s comment during next higher-level reviews.

= =C2=A0

6. In Section 5.4:=C2=A0What exactly is the Step of Rank? Is it:

    1. Difference between the rank of t= his node and the sibling?
    2. DAGRank() as computed in Section= 3.5.1 in RFC 6550? This needs to be explained with an example.

If Rank is a cost then that wou= ld be the cost for the hop to the sibling. What about:=

=E2=80=9C<= /font>

=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Step in Rank:=C2=A0 16-bit unsigned integer.=C2=A0 This is the Step in = Rank

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RPL] as computed by the Objective Function between t= his node and

=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the sibling, that reflects the abstract Rank incremen= t that would

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = be computed by the OF if the sibling was the preferred parent.

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9C


[RJ] &q= uot;... computed by the OF if the sibling was the preferred parent." c= larifies things for me.
--000000000000705add05d1880b0c-- From nobody Wed Nov 24 04:40:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3579C3A0112 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 04:40:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.852, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23NfoWwqZrPi for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 04:40:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mimuw.edu.pl (mail.mimuw.edu.pl [IPv6:2001:6a0:5001::4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD3113A00E5 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 04:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by duch.mimuw.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0855462023706; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 13:40:30 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mimuw.edu.pl Received: from duch.mimuw.edu.pl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mimuw.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id aE9OCgTrDHLh; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 13:40:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPV6:2a02:a311:813e:880:113f:8542:aa65:5595] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a311:813e:880:113f:8542:aa65:5595]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by duch.mimuw.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 13:40:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 13:40:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.2 Content-Language: en-US To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , Michael Richardson References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> <74673648-79a7-9611-5b71-b089a9a3e37e@mimuw.edu.pl> <59ff4342-f716-9048-9010-72813ee63948@mimuw.edu.pl> From: Konrad Iwanicki In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 12:40:41 -0000 Hi Pascal, On 24/11/2021 08:22, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > I think we're in sync, Konrad. > > 1) For the trickle question, Rahul also mentioned it in his review: > > I believe that there's the normal run time where the value changes in acceptable ranges, and there's emergency condition like a Root reaching saturation. Or maybe some coordination between DODAGs that triggers a min value in each DODAG, and we want that value to spread out fast. > > Those latter cases cannot wait hours for the DIO to trickle out. I believe it should be up to the root to decide. So there should be a signal like a bit that says whether or not to reset Trickle. > > The "OSN" should be independent of that. It should be incremented (and wrapping) with the new advertisements. Things are easier when each field has a clear function, side effects can be clever but are complex to manage. OK. This seems reasonable. I would thus recommend that the draft contain explicit rules REQUIRING the bit to be set when min priority changes from: - anything else to max (denoting saturation) - max to anything else as these changes would normally by the ones that should be propagated fast. > 2) The min priority value used is the one associated with the most recent "OSN" seen, and that's not limited to preferred parent. That's one of the arguments to keep it intact as propagated. > > A node that does not have a feasible parent should poison or detach. It does not make sense for a detached node to take visitors. So probably it should beacon a join priority of 0x7F. > > Either way, its OSN in DIOs will not be incremented and a node that sees a a fresher OSN one will use that one and continue beacon a proper value. > > Does all this make sense? Yes. This is precisely what I meant. In case, a node does not have a preferred parent it should advertise a join priority of 0x7F (i.e., the priority in beacons not in DIOs because the ones in DIOs are fixed by the root as we agreed). What I wanted to suggest is adding this requirement/recommendation to the draft, so that it is clear that having/not having a preferred parent also affects the join priority in beacons (EBs). Best, -- - Konrad Iwanicki. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Konrad Iwanicki >> Sent: mardi 23 novembre 2021 10:00 >> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks ; Pascal >> Thubert (pthubert) ; Michael Richardson >> >> Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority >> >> Hi all, >> >> On 23/11/2021 06:49, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >>> Hello Michael >>> >>> Please see >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2021-roll-02-20210831 >>> 1800/ >>> >>> We agreed that: >>> - as Konrad says again here we need a new lollipop counter >>> - as Rahul points out in his review the min priority is propagated >>> unchanged in DIOs, what I understand Konrad calls GLOBAL >>> - as Huimin said on Aug 19th we must define the behavior of the node, >> which logic to use to increment the minimum priority from the DIO to place >> in the beacon. >>> >>> GLOBAL vs FLEXIBLE was discussed, and I answered Konrad about the >>> FLEXIBLE on Aug. 12th >>> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/2MaZ4wXLVzJbmLC-LO6c--DsbW >>> Q/) I do not see a use case for it, so it looks like overdesign but >>> I'm open to be convinced otherwise >> >> Precisely, we agreed on what I call GLOBAL. In addition, from the >> discussion in my e-mail, there are two additional issues outstanding (one >> was mentioned by Michael). I believe we did not come to a conclusion >> regarding them: >> >> - How do changes to min priority (and OSN) affect DIO Trickle timers? >> [OSN == the lollipop sequence counter] >> >> - How does a (temporal) lack of a preferred parent affect the proxy >> priority of the node in EBs (and in general, the node's behavior)? >> >> Best, >> -- >> - Konrad Iwanicki. >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Roll On Behalf Of Konrad Iwanicki >>>> Sent: lundi 22 novembre 2021 15:55 >>>> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks ; >>>> Michael Richardson >>>> Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority >>>> >>>> Hi Michael, >>>> >>>> As we discussed throughout the mailing list, we also need a sequence >>>> number so that correct values of DODAG_Size and min_priority are >>>> adopted. This in turn requires putting more information in the draft >>>> on the rules of adopting the values. They are explicitly formulated >>>> in my earlier e-mail about GLOBAL vs FLEXIBLE. >>>> >>>> Take care, >>>> -- >>>> - Konrad Iwanicki. >>>> >>>> On 22/11/2021 15:15, Michael Richardson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm trying to edit draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority to reflect >>>>> the WG consensus. >>>>> >>>>> I think that we agreed that the nodes within the DODAG should not >>>>> change their enrollment priority. It can be set by the root in it's >>>>> DIO, and it will propogate through the DODAG according to the normal >>>> trickle settings. >>>>> Changes to the priority will *not*(?!) reset the trickle timer. >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/ >>>>> 9 is the pull request I just made, which may be easier to see the >>>>> changes. >>>>> >>>>> specifically, I've deleted this line: >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/pull/ >>>>> 9/ >>>>> files#diff-fe544a5ddaac2d404d7b76aa1204d54e36f5eb6618f3f52f0c0dc56dc >>>>> a4 >>>>> 061faL169 >>>>> >>>>> The nodes then adjust this base value based upon their observed >>>>> congestion, emitting their adjusted DIO value to their children. >>>>> >>>>> I actually find that there isn't a lot else to delete. >>>>> >>>>> I am concerned that I did not understand the WG consensus correctly, >>>>> so I am have not yet published this version. >>>>> >>>>> Do we want to retain the ability for the root to send a value 0-0x7f >>>>> into the DODAG, or was it only 0 and 1 that were useful? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 IøT >> consulting >>>> ) >>>>> Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Roll mailing list >>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Roll mailing list >>> Roll@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> > From nobody Wed Nov 24 05:17:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4453A00AE for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 05:17:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h2ilkHucKt5X for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:25:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCB063A084B for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:25:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (cpef81d0f835a73-cmf81d0f835a70.sdns.net.rogers.com [174.115.215.42]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 314831F455; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 17:25:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 908E81A0E37; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 12:25:41 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Konrad Iwanicki , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-reply-to: <74673648-79a7-9611-5b71-b089a9a3e37e@mimuw.edu.pl> References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> <74673648-79a7-9611-5b71-b089a9a3e37e@mimuw.edu.pl> Comments: In-reply-to Konrad Iwanicki message dated "Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:55:06 +0100." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 12:25:41 -0500 Message-ID: <76746.1637774741@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 17:25:56 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable let me collect replies into a single response. I've also opened issues in github. Konrad Iwanicki wrote: > As we discussed throughout the mailing list, we also need a sequence > number so that correct values of DODAG_Size and min_priority are > adopted. This in turn requires putting more information in the draft = on > the rules of adopting the values. They are explicitly formulated in my > earlier e-mail about GLOBAL vs FLEXIBLE. I thought that we needed a lollipop counter only if the values were going to be different in different places in the DODAG. Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Please see > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2021-roll-02-2021083= 11800/ I see that I agreed we need another lollipop counter, and I'll add that to the document. Is there text is another non-RFC6550 that I should use as best-of-breed to explain the counter? > (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/2MaZ4wXLVzJbmLC-LO6c--Dsb= WQ/) > I do not see a use case for it, so it looks like overdesign but I'm > open to be convinced otherwise okay. Konrad Iwanicki wrote: > - How do changes to min priority (and OSN) affect DIO Trickle timers? > [OSN =3D=3D the lollipop sequence counter] I think that if we have the counter, that increments the OSN reset the tric= kle timer, but Pascal suggests an additional bit to reset the trickle? Maybe I'm lost here. https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/13 Konrad> OK. This seems reasonable. I would thus recommend that the draft Konrad> contain explicit rules REQUIRING the bit to be set when min priority Konrad> changes from:=20 Konrad> - anything else to max (denoting saturation)=20 Konrat> - max to anything else as these changes would normally by the ones Konrat> that should be propagated fast. We can certainly build these rules into enrollment priority option. But, I wonder if resetting trickle has general application, and should actu= ally be signaled by inclusion of a new DIO option. That removes the above implicit logic from the nodes and moves it to the root. (And invokes the adage about "naming and cache invalidation" being the hard= problems) https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/12 > - How does a (temporal) lack of a preferred parent affect the proxy > priority of the node in EBs (and in general, the node's behavior)? If the node can't send traffic up to the root, then I think that it should turn off EBs until it can. In a 6tisch situation, it is likely that the lack of a preferred parent is probably due to falling out of the schedule. Pascal> A node that does not have a feasible parent should poison or Pascal> detach. It does not make sense for a detached node to take Pascal> visitors. So probably it should beacon a join priority of 0x7F. Does detach mean to send a DIO with infinite rank? I'm undecided if it should send a beacon at all. https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/11 Rahul> The Root should have the ability to send any value into the DODAG. If Rahul> Root is limited to value 0/1 and if it is not possible for any 6LRs = to Rahul> update the value then we might as well restrict the parameter size to Rahul> 1 bit! Am I missing anything here? A goal here is to allow a device which is re-attaching to be able to judge between several equivalent DODAGs which might be on different PANIDs, with different capacities. 0/1 might not be enough here, and I'd prefer to err on the side of creating a slider which we never use in the end. https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/10 =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAmGedZUACgkQlUzhVv38 QpCENAf/bebS2gMJYyyGdhzVD7Nyb4JC1Fj9u5/kk9D3bg4nl82IYTkikmz7a7lx DEPGGinC5zDxRZkXaE7Trzh70tXkoa6kw/G7J2ggAUuDgSjEX9lHSBnV56XUFWjg YF7yPjL5knUKRDZt5+sP3uGHCi6i2wHvE+3PZ+Rh7IPAkgKTfNill4SPlkuf3Kmp yo8nlsCEy/t3/8Ned/BcVEvcto1PQa+33G8xwIU2NHaTswudW37GpRP5SZLM/R3c nSabAYNDIbNR6xS31IAfmN+B7F5GkYMo6qgydwKf7Fx7iHrapLgFWktSw31UQXxh 0uTfcpaJwkbYIKWi0z4opY0XaZu4+g== =f4yO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Nov 24 09:36:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746D43A07B4 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:36:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B41ErFDs8Qvz for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [IPv6:2a01:7e00:e000:2bb::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E27933A08C5 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 09:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (cpef81d0f835a73-cmf81d0f835a70.sdns.net.rogers.com [174.115.215.42]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E97E1F455 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 17:35:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 32FFA1A0E37; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 12:35:50 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-reply-to: <30208.1637590535@localhost> References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> Comments: In-reply-to Michael Richardson message dated "Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:15:35 -0500." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 12:35:50 -0500 Message-ID: <79383.1637775350@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] alternates to enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 17:36:01 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Instead of fixing enrollment priority, could we make the two values that the root wants to announce: dodag size, min.priority as a capability? I see this as pushing capabilities out the door sooner, and maybe eliminating a document in the IESG queue. We have so far in the document on specified the routing resource capability as a Capability Set *Response*, a reply from the node to the root. We haven't specified a way to announce a value from the root to the nodes. In the document we say that capability TLVs can be carried in DIO/DAO, but also in other messages. I don't think we defined any. I'm not strongly attached to this idea, but thought of it while eating lunch. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAmGed/UACgkQlUzhVv38 QpCQKwgAiKjKqSFzgktFyXdQUGT5c8yBSgn+s6ss3TzkrepzgOPLQ9oz3JFpYJhQ hsYV55SVDGSZrfo5K+RVSdbHzdorsxxiob5AI5Ax2r0W/PMrkI4o9jCaPucaaDAV BW0L0BDv2yw0j42f0R+YZ+5h1bJ0iG3X9t/T+VAV+DI/6mreibU4K83fIHT//vlI STyZk7l9Ce+ftppMkcTj/gafyoHlfJiKKTb691fzHkBhImflNV6zSp2VnMiPa5HC tweSQPOD+wSzZAPmpBpHlMUo5XTWQUwQEe8abeCZhc9GdWbKc1Df0Gt8Aj37eYD4 akbmg9ob7saR16sMj6FXzXodsjYoyA== =3vsQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Nov 24 12:12:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03403A0BCE for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 12:12:38 -0800 (PST) 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LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0NCg0KaVFFekJBRUJDZ0FkRmlFRVJLKzlIRWNK SFRKOVVxVE1sVXpoVnYzOFFwQUZBbUdlZFpVQUNna1FsVXpoVnYzOA0KUXBDRU5BZi9iZWJTMmdN Sll5eUdkaHpWRDdOeWI0SkMxRmo5dTUva2s5RDNiZzRubDgySVlUa2lrbXo3YTdseA0KREVQR0dp bkM1ekR4UlprWGFFN1Ryemg3MHRYa29hNmt3L0c3SjJnZ0FVdURnU2pFWDlsSFNCblY1NlhVRldq Zw0KWUY3eVBqTDVrblVLUkRadDUrc1AzdUdIQ2k2aTJ3SHZFKzNQWitSaDdJUEFrZ0tUZk5pbGw0 U1Bsa3VmM0ttcA0KeW84bmxzQ0V5L3QzLzhOZWQvQmNWRXZjdG8xUFFhKzMzRzh4d0lVMk5IYVRz d3VkVzM3R3BSUDVTWkxNL1IzYw0KblNhYkFZTkRJYk5SNnhTMzFJQWZtTitCN0Y1R2tZTW82cWd5 ZHdLZjdGeDdpSHJhcExnRldrdFN3MzFVUVh4aA0KMHVUZmNwYUp3a2JZSUtXaTB6NG9wWTBYYVp1 NCtnPT0NCj1mNHlPDQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0= --_004_9C03FC6E05D645FB99C58BC84193C3ADciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 24 12:48:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 751A13A0C12 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 12:48:24 -0800 (PST) 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(mail.mimuw.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id cnHr93g1ePAX; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 21:48:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPV6:2a02:a311:813e:880:113f:8542:aa65:5595] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a311:813e:880:113f:8542:aa65:5595]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by duch.mimuw.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 21:48:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 21:48:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.2 Content-Language: en-US To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> <74673648-79a7-9611-5b71-b089a9a3e37e@mimuw.edu.pl> <76746.1637774741@dooku> <9C03FC6E-05D6-45FB-99C5-8BC84193C3AD@cisco.com> From: Konrad Iwanicki In-Reply-To: <9C03FC6E-05D6-45FB-99C5-8BC84193C3AD@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 20:48:25 -0000 Hello Pascal and Michael, My replies are inline. On 24/11/2021 21:21, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >> Le 24 nov. 2021 à 18:26, Michael Richardson a >> écrit : >> let me collect replies into a single response. >> I've also opened issues in github. >> >> Konrad Iwanicki wrote: >>> As we discussed throughout the mailing list, we also need a sequence >>> number so that correct values of DODAG_Size and min_priority are >>> adopted. This in turn requires putting more information in the draft on >>> the rules of adopting the values. They are explicitly formulated in my >>> earlier e-mail about GLOBAL vs FLEXIBLE. >> >> I thought that we needed a lollipop counter only if the values were >> going to >> be different in different places in the DODAG. >> > > It’s mostly to figure which is the most recent when several parents are > not at the same level. Yes. This was the motivation. >> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >>> Please see >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2021-roll-02-202108311800/ >> >> I see that I agreed we need another lollipop counter, and I'll add that to >> the document.  Is there text is another non-RFC6550 that I should use as >> best-of-breed to explain the counter? > > Actually every text I’m aware of point to section 7 of rfc 6550. Me too. >>> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/2MaZ4wXLVzJbmLC-LO6c--DsbWQ/) >>> I do not see a use case for it, so it looks like overdesign but I'm >>> open to be convinced otherwise >> >> okay. >> >> Konrad Iwanicki wrote: >>> - How do changes to min priority (and OSN) affect DIO Trickle timers? >>> [OSN == the lollipop sequence counter] >> >> I think that if we have the counter, that increments the OSN reset the >> trickle >> timer, but Pascal suggests an additional bit to reset the trickle? >> Maybe I'm lost here. >> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/13 >> > > Some casual updates do not deserve to be flooded faster than normal > stable DIO. But emergency and network control ones should. So we need a > trigger to say that this DIO message should reset trickle. May that bit > should not be in that option. It could be more generically used in DIOs. > > >> >> Konrad> OK. This seems reasonable. I would thus recommend that the draft >> Konrad> contain explicit rules REQUIRING the bit to be set when min >> priority >> Konrad> changes from: >> Konrad>   - anything else to max (denoting saturation) >> Konrat>   - max to anything else as these changes would normally by >> the ones >> Konrat>   that should be propagated fast. >> >> We can certainly build these rules into enrollment priority option. >> But, I wonder if resetting trickle has general application, and should >> actually be >> signaled by inclusion of a new DIO option. > > Oups i read this after thinking the same. I agree. Now, I have second thoughts about the option (and the bit). Initially, I thought that having a new option is nice but now I do not see immediately what its semantics would be. In particular, how would a node know whether it has already reset its Trickle counter in response to the option or whether it should do this just now? The same goes for the bit. I can imagine that the option could contain another lollipop counter but wonder whether it is a way to go? >>  That removes the above implicit >> logic from the nodes and moves it to the root. >> (And invokes the adage about "naming and cache invalidation" being the >> hard problems) >> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/12 >> > > Yes See above. >>> - How does a (temporal) lack of a preferred parent affect the proxy >>> priority of the node in EBs (and in general, the node's behavior)? >> >> If the node can't send traffic up to the root, then I think that it should >> turn off EBs until it can. > > Yes; at least advertise 7F for the priority if it needs to beacon for > other reasons I would vote for advertising 7f because at least this will update nodes that might have cached locally the node's old join priority and that attempt to use it as a proxy despite its lack of the preferred parent. >> In a 6tisch situation, it is likely that the lack of a preferred parent is >> probably due to falling out of the schedule. >> > > Yes Yes, but this is just one of the reasons. >> Pascal> A node that does not have a feasible parent should poison or >> Pascal> detach. It does not make sense for a detached node to take >> Pascal> visitors. So probably it should beacon a join priority of 0x7F. >> >> Does detach mean to send a DIO with infinite rank? > > Poison means that. Detaching means forming its own dodag with the G bit > not set (not grounded) > >> I'm undecided if it should send a beacon at all. >> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/11 >> > > No se I would do poisoning in this case. See above concerning the 7f value. >> Rahul> The Root should have the ability to send any value into the >> DODAG. If >> Rahul> Root is limited to value 0/1 and if it is not possible for any >> 6LRs to >> Rahul> update the value then we might as well restrict the parameter >> size to >> Rahul> 1 bit! Am I missing anything here? >> >> A goal here is to allow a device which is re-attaching to be able to judge >> between several equivalent DODAGs which might be on different PANIDs, with >> different capacities.   0/1 might not be enough here, and I'd prefer >> to err >> on the side of creating a slider which we never use in the end. >> >> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/issues/10 I have no strong opinion on any of the solutions. Having more than 1 bit seems more generic. Whether those bits will be used in a different manner than "binary" is probably deployment specific. Take care, -- - Konrad Iwanicki. 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X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.40.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <163785044350.30517.11821866839948005714@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 06:27:23 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 14:27:24 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : Root initiated routing state in RPL Authors : Pascal Thubert Rahul Arvind Jadhav Matthew Gillmore Filename : draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22.txt Pages : 80 Date : 2021-11-25 Abstract: This document extends RFC 6550, RFC 6553, and RFC 8138 to enable a RPL Root to install and maintain Projected Routes within its DODAG, along a selected set of nodes that may or may not include self, for a chosen duration. This potentially enables routes that are more optimized or resilient than those obtained with the classical distributed operation of RPL, either in terms of the size of a Routing Header or in terms of path length, which impacts both the latency and the packet delivery ratio. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 25 06:36:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC803A0908 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 06:36:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4ae56c01-93da-4464-6c1c-08d9b020e76a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Nov 2021 14:36:01.7161 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bQLR7ZN5uislrwhV6ac9OCZst9NlicGulGIg1jIK82Xr4rA8PNqYPyycjH8WhPu+Vl8RtURcObAqREakFUSCwQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW3PR11MB4761 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.18, xbe-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 14:36:14 -0000 Dear all: This addresses the pre WGLC review by coauthors.=20 Remous Aris will produce another and then I guess we'll be ready for WGLC. Please note: - Michael raised a number of issues that we need to progress on as a group - Ines indicated that some tickets might be left open - I could not spot th= em but we'll look at that offline. Keep safe! Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Roll On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: jeudi 25 novembre 2021 15:27 > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: roll@ietf.org > Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy network= s > WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Root initiated routing state in RPL > Authors : Pascal Thubert > Rahul Arvind Jadhav > Matthew Gillmore > Filename : draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22.txt > Pages : 80 > Date : 2021-11-25 >=20 > Abstract: > This document extends RFC 6550, RFC 6553, and RFC 8138 to enable a > RPL Root to install and maintain Projected Routes within its DODAG, > along a selected set of nodes that may or may not include self, for a > chosen duration. This potentially enables routes that are more > optimized or resilient than those obtained with the classical > distributed operation of RPL, either in terms of the size of a > Routing Header or in terms of path length, which impacts both the > latency and the packet delivery ratio. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection/ >=20 > There is also an HTML version available at: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22.html >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-dao-projection-22 >=20 >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From nobody Thu Nov 25 12:54:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026083A081E for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:54:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRSOundOO1-3 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AB053A080F for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:54:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE5F18022 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 15:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id b7o4hMsNazOc for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 15:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7BD18018 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 15:56:46 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1637873806; bh=9FEx0uoC2RjpuAsWjCbCmc0d7mWo5jXOWDAWuhQx79A=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=LHyOLbDtP8pAFzkujfjduFQ/1VyHDBDwsnvuloJbIrQ/Ko9SVQEM/1bCcUbT9lhjv dmCIX7ixf3KvGTjieukcc6v2dS4L5Ek0n9kImuqbMDK0JS97k3TQyIriboRduoH4mW VrtB8in5V43yL1lvF840aDzSSsv3IhhBtET9S0leUdlby3rzhhEjQbxOlMF0UQj8qw kmmvFg39hdRRpmXTQThJoorQCjRokpf0I+exbdEm6fbW4HWB4s+imQBLvZS+N+3Hjl megjl1eINPsryIYsPEmGlvQbHdDGMa7OwSzO45Vzgh0FNqyixP15XlQqUFfTI3W36L /t+ANkmxDnrNA== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC0EC65 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 15:53:50 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: <9C03FC6E-05D6-45FB-99C5-8BC84193C3AD@cisco.com> References: <30208.1637590535@localhost> <74673648-79a7-9611-5b71-b089a9a3e37e@mimuw.edu.pl> <76746.1637774741@dooku> <9C03FC6E-05D6-45FB-99C5-8BC84193C3AD@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Roll] enrollment priority X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 20:54:06 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) wrote: > (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/2MaZ4wXLVzJbmLC-LO6c--Dsb= WQ/) > Konrad Iwanicki wrote: konrad> - How do changes to min priority (and OSN) affect DIO Trickle t= imers? konrad> [OSN =3D=3D the lollipop sequence counter] konrad> I think that if we have the counter, that increments the OSN re= set the trickle konrad> timer, but Pascal suggests an additional bit to reset the konrad> trickle? pt> Some casual updates do not deserve to be flooded faster than normal pt> stable DIO. But emergency and network control ones should. So we ne= ed a pt> trigger to say that this DIO message should reset trickle. May that= bit pt> should not be in that option. It could be more generically used in pt> DIOs. mcr> We can certainly build these rules into enrollment priority option. mcr> But, I wonder if resetting trickle has general application, and sh= ould actually be mcr> signaled by inclusion of a new DIO option. pt> Oups i read this after thinking the same. I agree. okay, I'll include this. konrad> - How does a (temporal) lack of a preferred parent affect the p= roxy konrad> priority of the node in EBs (and in general, the node's behavio= r)? mcr> If the node can't send traffic up to the root, then I think that i= t should mcr> turn off EBs until it can. pt> Yes; at least advertise 7F for the priority if it needs to beacon f= or other reasons I agree, 7F (infinite) if it needs to beacon. Should it even beacon if it has no feasible parents? mcr> In a 6tisch situation, it is likely that the lack of a preferred p= arent is mcr> probably due to falling out of the schedule. pt> Yes Pascal> A node that does not have a feasible parent should poison or Pascal> detach. It does not make sense for a detached node to take Pascal> visitors. So probably it should beacon a join priority of 0x7F. mcr> Does detach mean to send a DIO with infinite rank? pt> Poison means that. Detaching means forming its own dodag with the G pt> bit not set (not grounded) mcr> I'm undecided if it should send a beacon at all. mcr> https://github.com/roll-wg/draft-ietf-roll-enrollment-priority/iss= ues/11 There seem to be a number of parts to a decision tree here. I will start more threads. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmGf990ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV53gf/WC05N8sWGk+gaopQN6H0YKol9eVymy8+orQmwYYYittarVFI7rPiTMz9 oiacOoMUm7fWJGARXk+G0wc/SAC5kFVaRe3NbPgee5v6TYHFQL2UjDombPV8Obey bS21cUC5plXpRK04H/VdwhmX2P3G+0FkiFx3tBYZbACOWstageTYI5o0k/pDkV7b rAHjcPb5cTmZ3IZbSzEm4EZcToIscKd8nQiIfJWmqgvxhdK2GZgls5v0w5xQFO0l G16/aqlnbkUWhQYmxM4Uq5zQQ8hYA+dEhNd6A1oU/tUB8d6SOA9zvK2O+NlGUBkO fREVbc3Uxk0QmhtcNnOU/5JoI1zHqQ== =t7s/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Nov 29 19:51:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietf.org Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AF33A0CE0; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 19:51:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.40.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: roll@ietf.org Message-ID: <163824427258.11266.10698170272378610273@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 19:51:12 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 03:51:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG of the IETF. Title : RPL Observations Authors : Rahul Arvind Jadhav Rabi Narayan Sahoo Yuefeng Wu Filename : draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2021-11-29 Abstract: This document describes RPL protocol design issues, various observations and possible consequences of the design and implementation choices. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 29 20:14:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B953A0D2D for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 20:14:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kcnh4ok3itU1 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 20:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A4B43A0D28 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 20:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id t5so81436862edd.0 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 20:14:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=k+iEPhg7A1HrmllfweK9Z1H0UloPUjdDBlzGaLpeZ3U=; b=aiJpUg2OieNb6IFAo0HX6SXSZxaZNyOzXitKIbFjhVt1TIoQQ8oQPZqI0MzgZgrWm/ YknwLq2J6Bn3+Cs/ChrOjQcg2kuARtAxx7usrSBOThSaWwgVdhpcW6Hyfx8w3Hh5SwbY U7aSQ1wiiEVrSQc2KQ52zt2LLoY43wJVOXmj5KGYmtdolUmu7330hgOt4/NmqPeLpzS2 ySMozXdnrJzjaiMv7ICqQjSJ3d/hlaCS0wCaLZeI10XFyWyCxOT7iQ9vMyH/SGP9RCdI r1larLYm/HOPIv4SHvcdIKPSHEZjTqR+UMIeA2SwAvjW0MvWUhNSk19WU5DLDxQPAHhb bXCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=k+iEPhg7A1HrmllfweK9Z1H0UloPUjdDBlzGaLpeZ3U=; b=DnK/bhkMTyivggc94Y7lpTBvAFddvQVEOg/1wtdL1yMrXMydy6x5zbYXsXzj+p9wq9 e2rTMw4zpwiNODwCqLLswiiL0r4DuTIfArmtMwKW+VQEq0vvkOjK65bAugLJbKyzjnWf TR6iujDQTpGT/eu2pAiEl23uSaThfMQix+JBr7fhYiLTszC0pJPoNImrbFj0aUhFDfpg coFIuqJOpYXZi1JMrmDliSwF4CTNYp7URd7MQR6E75e3O7skbSvirjRQMv4GE/mobWnH D7SBzov76V5pB0t1WOYkB+GtsWnyTa8NZd3CjZ+KzQA1utC6CIl7VlnUF5y+ziU2er3h 2Rxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532lUFUNmCpOo6P08Xznu7BGeYbsaFKHKNbAav2SFHTrU32f4Q1N 798HJXuMe7BmT5vm2fuBaDo04X5N9Aj2gZE7vwfDMUeNhXA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxbC4IPGKHoVKdbyG1cJA75fqzV5wjb7Ob21hAy8L9wdCAR79gb2ro1PXzZwJNwBoY2k4Cbu9FxyzpyXucVQq0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:794a:: with SMTP id l10mr63307088ejo.192.1638245646953; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 20:14:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163824427277.11266.5219312758109497910@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <163824427277.11266.5219312758109497910@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Rahul Jadhav Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 09:43:56 +0530 Message-ID: To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d7718805d1f9c96c" Archived-At: Subject: [Roll] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 04:14:14 -0000 --000000000000d7718805d1f9c96c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Folks, The RPL observations draft contains observations captured over the years by the working group about the problem statements, general observations with respect to RPL operations, behaviour. Problem statements include: 1. Problems associated with storing MOP a. incrementing DTSN in sub-dodag.. If a 6LR switches path, should it increment DTSN to inform child nodes to update their path? observations, possible issues in the context. b. how to handle DAO retransmissions in storing MOP? c. ensuring bi-directional path establishment in storing MOP? 2. implementation notes related to trickle timer 3. Handling of Path Control Bits (ever heard of it!) in RPL. 4. Adjacencies probing with RPL 5. lollipop counters and its dep on persistent storage ... implications if you set the lollipop counters parameters unwisely 6. Handling upgrades/extns to RPL ... lots of other interesting stuff ... We just posted a -07 version with no changes to keep it alive since some of the current drafts refer to these problem statements... Any feedback is welcome, very much appreciated. Thanks, Rahul ---------- Forwarded message --------- A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07.txt has been successfully submitted by Rahul Arvind Jadhav and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations Revision: 07 Title: RPL Observations Document date: 2021-11-29 Group: roll Pages: 21 URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations/ Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07 Abstract: This document describes RPL protocol design issues, various observations and possible consequences of the design and implementation choices. --000000000000d7718805d1f9c96c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,

The RPL o= bservations draft contains observations captured over the years by the work= ing group about the problem statements, general observations with respect t= o RPL operations, behaviour.

Problem state= ments include:
1. Problems associated with storing MOP
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:#= 20124d">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a. incrementing DTSN in sub-dodag.. If a 6LR sw= itches path, should=C2=A0it increment DTSN to inform child nodes to update = their path? observations, possible issues in the=C2=A0context.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b. how to handle DAO retransmissions in storing MOP?<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c. ensuring bi-directional path establish= ment in storing MOP?
2. implementation notes related to trick= le timer
3. Handling of Path Control Bits (ever heard of it!)= in RPL.
4. Adjacencies probing with RPL
5. lol= lipop counters and its dep on persistent storage ... implications if you se= t the lollipop counters parameters unwisely
6. Handling upgra= des/extns to RPL
... lots of other interesting stuff ...

We just posted a -07 version with no changes t= o keep it alive since some of the current drafts refer to these problem sta= tements...

Any feedback is welcome, very m= uch appreciated.

Thanks,
R= ahul





---------- Forwarded message ---------

A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations-07.txt
has been successfully submitted by Rahul Arvind Jadhav and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observati= ons
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A007
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RPL Observations
Document date:=C2=A0 2021-11-29
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 roll
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 21
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observ= ations-07.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observations/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-observation= s
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-roll-rpl-ob= servations-07

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes RPL protocol design issues, various =C2=A0 =C2=A0observations and possible consequences of the design and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation choices.

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