From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Thu Nov 6 11:18:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16247 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:18:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHmog-0000Jj-H2; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:17:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGaJB-0006n9-H6 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:43:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA23870 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:43:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGaJ9-00023h-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:43:31 -0500 Received: from mx03.plaxo.com ([66.54.249.36] helo=mx.plaxo.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGaJ8-00023c-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:43:30 -0500 Received: (qmail 4488 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2003 08:43:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.0.5) by mx3.plaxo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2003 08:43:52 -0000 Received: from 12.233.59.41 by pas02.plaxo.com; 3 Nov 2003 08:38:21 -0000 Message-ID: <1067849032.25590.4370.sendUpdate@mx.plaxo.com> Date: 3 Nov 2003 08:43:52 -0000 From: "Michael Luby" To: "Routing-Discussion@Ietf. Org" Reply-to: "Plaxo Contact Update for Michael Luby" Precedence: bulk Subject: Your contact info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_-------==2389746020" Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_-------==2389746020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Routing-Discussion@Ietf. Org, Please take a moment to reply to this email and make changes to your contact information. I'm sending my contact info to make sure you have an up to date copy. If you want, please respond as follows to this message: Instructions: 1. Download Plaxo and we will automatically stay in sync: http://www.plaxo.com/downloads --OR-- 1. Click REPLY 2. Check the contact info below - and if it isn't correct - just change it in the reply. 3. Send the reply message If everything looks correct, just reply with `no changes' in the message body. Thanks! ------ Name: Routing-Discussion@Ietf. Org Job Title: Company: Work E-mail: routing-discussion@ietf.org Work Phone: Work Fax: Work Address Line 1: Work Address Line 2: Work City, State, Zip: Mobile Phone: Home E-mail: Home Phone: Home Fax: Home Address Line 1: Home Address Line 2: Home City, State, Zip: Birthday: P.S. I've included my Plaxo card below so that you have my current information. I've also attached a copy as a vCard. +----------------- | Michael Luby | luby@digitalfountain.com | CTO | | Digital Fountain | 39141 Civic Center Drive | Suite 300 | Fremont, CA 94538 | work: (510) 284-1436 | fax: (510) 284-1499 | web: http://www.digitalfountain.com +------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you by luby@digitalfountain.com via Plaxo. To have Plaxo automatically handle these messages in the future, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/autoreply Plaxo's Privacy Policy: http://www.plaxo.com/support/privacy --_-------==2389746020 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Michael Luby.vcf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Michael Luby.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-PLAXO-VERSION:1.0 N:Luby;Michael;;; FN:Michael Luby ORG:Digital Fountain TITLE:CTO ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;39141 Civic Center Drive=0D=0ASuite 300=0D=0AFremont, CA 94538;;;; TEL;WORK;VOICE:(510) 284-1436 TEL;WORK;FAX:(510) 284-1499 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:luby@digitalfountain.com URL;WORK:http://www.digitalfountain.com END:VCARD --_-------==2389746020-- _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 12:08:48 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16249 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:18:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHmph-0000it-R2 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:18:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6GI5I9002697 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:18:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHmog-0000Jj-H2; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:17:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGaJB-0006n9-H6 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:43:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA23870 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:43:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGaJ9-00023h-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:43:31 -0500 Received: from mx03.plaxo.com ([66.54.249.36] helo=mx.plaxo.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGaJ8-00023c-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:43:30 -0500 Received: (qmail 4488 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2003 08:43:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.0.5) by mx3.plaxo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2003 08:43:52 -0000 Received: from 12.233.59.41 by pas02.plaxo.com; 3 Nov 2003 08:38:21 -0000 Message-ID: <1067849032.25590.4370.sendUpdate@mx.plaxo.com> Date: 3 Nov 2003 08:43:52 -0000 From: "Michael Luby" To: "Routing-Discussion@Ietf. Org" Reply-to: "Plaxo Contact Update for Michael Luby" Precedence: bulk Subject: Your contact info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_-------==2389746020" Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_-------==2389746020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Routing-Discussion@Ietf. Org, Please take a moment to reply to this email and make changes to your contact information. I'm sending my contact info to make sure you have an up to date copy. If you want, please respond as follows to this message: Instructions: 1. Download Plaxo and we will automatically stay in sync: http://www.plaxo.com/downloads --OR-- 1. Click REPLY 2. Check the contact info below - and if it isn't correct - just change it in the reply. 3. Send the reply message If everything looks correct, just reply with `no changes' in the message body. Thanks! ------ Name: Routing-Discussion@Ietf. Org Job Title: Company: Work E-mail: routing-discussion@ietf.org Work Phone: Work Fax: Work Address Line 1: Work Address Line 2: Work City, State, Zip: Mobile Phone: Home E-mail: Home Phone: Home Fax: Home Address Line 1: Home Address Line 2: Home City, State, Zip: Birthday: P.S. I've included my Plaxo card below so that you have my current information. I've also attached a copy as a vCard. +----------------- | Michael Luby | luby@digitalfountain.com | CTO | | Digital Fountain | 39141 Civic Center Drive | Suite 300 | Fremont, CA 94538 | work: (510) 284-1436 | fax: (510) 284-1499 | web: http://www.digitalfountain.com +------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you by luby@digitalfountain.com via Plaxo. To have Plaxo automatically handle these messages in the future, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/autoreply Plaxo's Privacy Policy: http://www.plaxo.com/support/privacy --_-------==2389746020 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Michael Luby.vcf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Michael Luby.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-PLAXO-VERSION:1.0 N:Luby;Michael;;; FN:Michael Luby ORG:Digital Fountain TITLE:CTO ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;39141 Civic Center Drive=0D=0ASuite 300=0D=0AFremont, CA 94538;;;; TEL;WORK;VOICE:(510) 284-1436 TEL;WORK;FAX:(510) 284-1499 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:luby@digitalfountain.com URL;WORK:http://www.digitalfountain.com END:VCARD --_-------==2389746020-- _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Sun Nov 9 08:51:02 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA28340 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:51:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIpx4-0002sn-KW; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIpwl-0002rz-TU for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:49:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA28324 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:49:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIpwk-0001Ge-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:49:42 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIpwj-0001GM-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:49:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA9Dn4310679; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:49:04 +0200 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:49:03 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: David Meyer cc: routing-discussion@ietf.org, Subject: Re: first cut at the Routing Protocol Overload (RPO) draft In-Reply-To: <20031031001756.GA24269@1-4-5.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, David Meyer wrote: > A first cut at the RPO draft can be found on > > http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/draft-meyer-rpo-00.txt In general, I think the document is very good and pretty useful. A few bigger comments, and more below...: 1) Does te docs need to also consider the issues loosely related to the interference that those who want the application features aksi "pay the price" (either in the terms of money, or having to install/enable the system) -- and not requiring the others to bear the "fruits" of the features (refer to Rob Austein's comment about "pain transfer protocol") ? 2) "Application fit" mainly discusses the applicability of BGP as a transport mechanism. This looks like a terribly limited vision. Are there really no other aspects of application fit than distribution?? 3) I think you'll need to expand a bit on L3 Routing Information and Reachability Information in 4.1 and 4.2, because it is not really clear what the precise differences are. How is reachability information not L3 routing information ? (I can see a few ways of how not, but it'd clarify a lot if these were spelled out..) semi-editorial -------------- Examples include IPv6 [RFC2460], flow specification rules [FLOW], virtual private LAN services [VPLS], and virtual private Wire Service [VPWS]. and: example applications include the IPv4 routing system, flow specification rules [FLOW], auto-discovery mechanisms for Layer 3 VPNs [BGPVPN], and virtual private LAN services [VPLS]. ==> sync the introduction and the problem statement application lists Application fit refers to the matching of the requirements of the data to be distributed with the underlying capabilities of a distribution mechanism. Broadcast, multicast and unicast distribution mechanisms in use today. ==> isn't tehe last sentence redundant? or at least requires reword.. The fate sharing principle for end to end network protocols was first enunciated by Dave Clark [CLARK]. As applied to software systems, fate sharing refers to the sharing of common resources among a group of applications. In our case, the particular "fate" of most interest is the ability of one application, call it application A, to cause an application with which it is fate sharing, call it application B, to experience one or more faults due to faults in application A. In the case of BGP, one way to reduce fate sharing is to run applications A and B in seprate BGP sessions. ==> or the most obvious ones, such as running application A (or B) outside of the BGP in the first place, not just in separate sessions ==> s/seprate/separate/ Finally, note that these models can have very risk profiles with respect to code impact and resource sharing. Some of the questions relating to risk assessment are considered below. ==> something missing around the first line, can't parse? o Do applications have to compete for resources within the network (e.g., bandwidth), when the protocol session spans multiple hops ? ==> I don't see how protocol spanning multicast hops here? In theory, it should be irrelevant. In practice, I guess the network resource reqs could be more severe if they're very high. o Do applications have to compete for socket buffers, and hence have to potential to block or starve each other (at the TCP level)? The TCP model does not require applications to compete for socket level resources. It should also be possible to achieve this type of application independence in the BGP model with multi-session extensions to BGP (i.e., grouping of one or more AFI/SAFI per TCP session). ==> I don't really understand why you use the word "require" in these sections. Therefore, it's difficult to understand all of these answers. Consider rewording.. [CLARK] Clark, D., "Design Philosophy of the DARPA Internet Protocols", Computer Communication Review, volume 25, number 1, January 1995. ISSN # 0146-4833. ==> wasn't the original statement of the fate-sharing principle a much, much older one? editorial --------- However, while the theoretical properties of BGP remains a topic of ==> s/remains/remain/ ? (not sure..) While these concepts were originally described for protocols such as DVMRP [RFC1075], the bulk of the generalization of the NLRI described in this document derive from the introduction to BGP of the MP_REACH_NLRI and MP_UNREACH_NLRI attributes [RFC2858]. ==> put "to BGP" at the end of the sentence. "BGP model", based on the current BGP model, provides a single point model is and instantiation of the GPT model. ==> s/and/an/ assessing the difference in risk between TCP model and the BGP model with respect to the requirements and properties of the system resource sharing it they require. ==> s/it// or something else? Interference in the Internet routing system has it is roots in the ==> s/it is/its/ That is, interference, if and where it occurs, has its roots protocol complexity and is frequently the result of application coupling. ==> can't parse, s/roots/roots in/ or something ? As mentioned above, risk models the robustness tradeoffs around generic software architecture and engineering associated with protocol implementations, including the impact on impact on existing protocol implementations, and on the fate sharing properties of those ==> remove the second "impact on". even with that, it still looks funny but at least parses somehow.. Neither the TCP model nor the BGP model (again, with multi-session extensions) should be require competition for network resources in this case. ==> s/should be/should/ ? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 08:51:03 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA28351 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:51:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIpxk-0002uN-RK for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:50:45 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9Doimg011173 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:50:44 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIpx4-0002sn-KW; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIpwl-0002rz-TU for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:49:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA28324 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:49:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIpwk-0001Ge-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:49:42 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIpwj-0001GM-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:49:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA9Dn4310679; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:49:04 +0200 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:49:03 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: David Meyer cc: routing-discussion@ietf.org, Subject: Re: first cut at the Routing Protocol Overload (RPO) draft In-Reply-To: <20031031001756.GA24269@1-4-5.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, David Meyer wrote: > A first cut at the RPO draft can be found on > > http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/draft-meyer-rpo-00.txt In general, I think the document is very good and pretty useful. A few bigger comments, and more below...: 1) Does te docs need to also consider the issues loosely related to the interference that those who want the application features aksi "pay the price" (either in the terms of money, or having to install/enable the system) -- and not requiring the others to bear the "fruits" of the features (refer to Rob Austein's comment about "pain transfer protocol") ? 2) "Application fit" mainly discusses the applicability of BGP as a transport mechanism. This looks like a terribly limited vision. Are there really no other aspects of application fit than distribution?? 3) I think you'll need to expand a bit on L3 Routing Information and Reachability Information in 4.1 and 4.2, because it is not really clear what the precise differences are. How is reachability information not L3 routing information ? (I can see a few ways of how not, but it'd clarify a lot if these were spelled out..) semi-editorial -------------- Examples include IPv6 [RFC2460], flow specification rules [FLOW], virtual private LAN services [VPLS], and virtual private Wire Service [VPWS]. and: example applications include the IPv4 routing system, flow specification rules [FLOW], auto-discovery mechanisms for Layer 3 VPNs [BGPVPN], and virtual private LAN services [VPLS]. ==> sync the introduction and the problem statement application lists Application fit refers to the matching of the requirements of the data to be distributed with the underlying capabilities of a distribution mechanism. Broadcast, multicast and unicast distribution mechanisms in use today. ==> isn't tehe last sentence redundant? or at least requires reword.. The fate sharing principle for end to end network protocols was first enunciated by Dave Clark [CLARK]. As applied to software systems, fate sharing refers to the sharing of common resources among a group of applications. In our case, the particular "fate" of most interest is the ability of one application, call it application A, to cause an application with which it is fate sharing, call it application B, to experience one or more faults due to faults in application A. In the case of BGP, one way to reduce fate sharing is to run applications A and B in seprate BGP sessions. ==> or the most obvious ones, such as running application A (or B) outside of the BGP in the first place, not just in separate sessions ==> s/seprate/separate/ Finally, note that these models can have very risk profiles with respect to code impact and resource sharing. Some of the questions relating to risk assessment are considered below. ==> something missing around the first line, can't parse? o Do applications have to compete for resources within the network (e.g., bandwidth), when the protocol session spans multiple hops ? ==> I don't see how protocol spanning multicast hops here? In theory, it should be irrelevant. In practice, I guess the network resource reqs could be more severe if they're very high. o Do applications have to compete for socket buffers, and hence have to potential to block or starve each other (at the TCP level)? The TCP model does not require applications to compete for socket level resources. It should also be possible to achieve this type of application independence in the BGP model with multi-session extensions to BGP (i.e., grouping of one or more AFI/SAFI per TCP session). ==> I don't really understand why you use the word "require" in these sections. Therefore, it's difficult to understand all of these answers. Consider rewording.. [CLARK] Clark, D., "Design Philosophy of the DARPA Internet Protocols", Computer Communication Review, volume 25, number 1, January 1995. ISSN # 0146-4833. ==> wasn't the original statement of the fate-sharing principle a much, much older one? editorial --------- However, while the theoretical properties of BGP remains a topic of ==> s/remains/remain/ ? (not sure..) While these concepts were originally described for protocols such as DVMRP [RFC1075], the bulk of the generalization of the NLRI described in this document derive from the introduction to BGP of the MP_REACH_NLRI and MP_UNREACH_NLRI attributes [RFC2858]. ==> put "to BGP" at the end of the sentence. "BGP model", based on the current BGP model, provides a single point model is and instantiation of the GPT model. ==> s/and/an/ assessing the difference in risk between TCP model and the BGP model with respect to the requirements and properties of the system resource sharing it they require. ==> s/it// or something else? Interference in the Internet routing system has it is roots in the ==> s/it is/its/ That is, interference, if and where it occurs, has its roots protocol complexity and is frequently the result of application coupling. ==> can't parse, s/roots/roots in/ or something ? As mentioned above, risk models the robustness tradeoffs around generic software architecture and engineering associated with protocol implementations, including the impact on impact on existing protocol implementations, and on the fate sharing properties of those ==> remove the second "impact on". even with that, it still looks funny but at least parses somehow.. Neither the TCP model nor the BGP model (again, with multi-session extensions) should be require competition for network resources in this case. ==> s/should be/should/ ? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Mon Nov 10 15:38:57 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12422 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:38:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJInW-0000t7-Ts; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:38:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJIn9-0000mY-Bo for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12292 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJIn7-0004GD-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:41 -0500 Received: from kirk.rvdp.org ([80.126.101.63]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJIn6-0004GA-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:40 -0500 Received: (from rvdp@localhost) by kirk.rvdp.org (8.11.6p3/8.11.6) id hAAKbbq15411 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:37:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:37:37 +0100 From: Ronald van der Pol To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: agenda for this evening? Message-ID: <20031110203737.GA15076@rvdp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Is there an agenda for this evening's routing area session? It would help me decide what session to attend. rvdp _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 15:38:58 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12428 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJIo4-00010n-BC for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:38:40 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAKcekL003812 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:38:40 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJInW-0000t7-Ts; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:38:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJIn9-0000mY-Bo for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12292 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJIn7-0004GD-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:41 -0500 Received: from kirk.rvdp.org ([80.126.101.63]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJIn6-0004GA-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:40 -0500 Received: (from rvdp@localhost) by kirk.rvdp.org (8.11.6p3/8.11.6) id hAAKbbq15411 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:37:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:37:37 +0100 From: Ronald van der Pol To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: agenda for this evening? Message-ID: <20031110203737.GA15076@rvdp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Is there an agenda for this evening's routing area session? It would help me decide what session to attend. rvdp _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Tue Nov 11 12:34:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12194 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcOv-0004Te-Uz; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcOs-0004TF-GZ for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12132; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:45 -0500 (EST) From: Mukesh.Gupta@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcOq-0006lg-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:56 -0500 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcOp-0006lZ-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:56 -0500 Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hABHXsB20576; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:33:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:33:52 +0200 Received: from daebe009.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.109]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:33:50 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: CARP.. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:33:49 -0600 Message-ID: <8D260779A766FB4A9C1739A476F84FA401546EF7@daebe009.NOE.Nokia.com> Thread-Topic: CARP.. Thread-Index: AcOoefdIrODI4C3SQ6Oj+WZEaZXWig== To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2003 17:33:50.0495 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8309AF0:01C3A879] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, Do we have anyone in the WG or routing-discussion list who=20 knows about CARP (Common Address Redundancy Protocol) and=20 can explain it to the WG (or just the chairs in person) in=20 the WG meeting on Thursday. Please send me a mail asap. Your help will be highly appreciated. Regards Mukesh _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 13:19:51 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12196 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcP4-0004Wq-Hm for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:34:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABHYAnK017332 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:34:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcOv-0004Te-Uz; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcOs-0004TF-GZ for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12132; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:45 -0500 (EST) From: Mukesh.Gupta@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcOq-0006lg-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:56 -0500 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcOp-0006lZ-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:33:56 -0500 Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hABHXsB20576; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:33:54 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:33:52 +0200 Received: from daebe009.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.109]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:33:50 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: CARP.. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:33:49 -0600 Message-ID: <8D260779A766FB4A9C1739A476F84FA401546EF7@daebe009.NOE.Nokia.com> Thread-Topic: CARP.. Thread-Index: AcOoefdIrODI4C3SQ6Oj+WZEaZXWig== To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2003 17:33:50.0495 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8309AF0:01C3A879] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, Do we have anyone in the WG or routing-discussion list who=20 knows about CARP (Common Address Redundancy Protocol) and=20 can explain it to the WG (or just the chairs in person) in=20 the WG meeting on Thursday. Please send me a mail asap. Your help will be highly appreciated. Regards Mukesh _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Tue Nov 18 13:47:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06462 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMAsO-0007ak-Q3; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMAsL-0007aX-Hi for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06434 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMAsJ-00033n-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:55 -0500 Received: from m106.maoz.com ([205.167.76.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMAsI-00033k-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:54 -0500 Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIIkOGq001028; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:46:24 -0800 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIIkORW001027; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:46:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:46:24 -0800 From: David Meyer To: grow@lists.uoregon.edu Cc: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: collection commmunities and rpo drafts posted to internet-drafts Message-ID: <20031118184624.GA979@1-4-5.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , By popular request, both http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/draft-meyer-collection-communities-00.txt and http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/draft-meyer-rpo-00.txt have been posted to internet-drafts@ietf.org. Dave _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 13:47:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06477 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMAsj-0007dA-Hr for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIIlL0T029254 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMAsO-0007ak-Q3; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMAsL-0007aX-Hi for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06434 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMAsJ-00033n-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:55 -0500 Received: from m106.maoz.com ([205.167.76.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMAsI-00033k-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:46:54 -0500 Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAIIkOGq001028; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:46:24 -0800 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIIkORW001027; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:46:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:46:24 -0800 From: David Meyer To: grow@lists.uoregon.edu Cc: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: collection commmunities and rpo drafts posted to internet-drafts Message-ID: <20031118184624.GA979@1-4-5.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , By popular request, both http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/draft-meyer-collection-communities-00.txt and http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/draft-meyer-rpo-00.txt have been posted to internet-drafts@ietf.org. Dave _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Wed Nov 26 07:39:51 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04665 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:39:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOywe-0007kY-RO; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:39:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOyw3-0007fo-10 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04630 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyw2-0004mv-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:22 -0500 Received: from web21510.mail.yahoo.com ([66.163.169.59]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyw1-0004mr-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20031126123820.64615.qmail@web21510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.99.130.195] by web21510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 04:38:20 PST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 04:38:20 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Chu Subject: Hello,I have some quetions about how to use the mail-list. To: routing-discussion@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562" Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dir Mr /Ms : As a graduate deep in China ,I am doing some research in Routing field for my thesis now .With great respect ,I hope to get some help from the the most authoritative network force ---IETF. But when finished my submission to the mail-list ,I got nothing for the mail , I can not share the resource of the talk on Routing area.Should I go to the mail server to view the newest mails ? What should I do ? Thanks ! yours sincerely, Josh Mailto: P.O.BOX 1312#,Xi'an Jiaotong University,Shaanxi,710049,P.R.China --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dir Mr /Ms :
    As a graduate deep in China ,I am doing some research in Routing field for my thesis now .With great respect ,I hope to get some help from the the most authoritative network force ---IETF. But when finished my submission to the mail-list ,I got nothing for the mail , I can not share the resource of the talk on Routing area.Should I go to the mail server to view the newest mails ? What should  I do ? Thanks !
 
 
                                                                                                       yours sincerely,
                                                                                                                   Josh


Mailto:
P.O.BOX 1312#,Xi'an Jiaotong University,Shaanxi,710049,P.R.China

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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562-- _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 08:29:04 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04666 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:39:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOyxB-0007mf-Ui for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:39:34 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQCdXOL029915 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:39:33 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOywe-0007kY-RO; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:39:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOyw3-0007fo-10 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04630 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyw2-0004mv-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:22 -0500 Received: from web21510.mail.yahoo.com ([66.163.169.59]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyw1-0004mr-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:38:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20031126123820.64615.qmail@web21510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.99.130.195] by web21510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 04:38:20 PST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 04:38:20 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Chu Subject: Hello,I have some quetions about how to use the mail-list. To: routing-discussion@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562" Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dir Mr /Ms : As a graduate deep in China ,I am doing some research in Routing field for my thesis now .With great respect ,I hope to get some help from the the most authoritative network force ---IETF. But when finished my submission to the mail-list ,I got nothing for the mail , I can not share the resource of the talk on Routing area.Should I go to the mail server to view the newest mails ? What should I do ? Thanks ! yours sincerely, Josh Mailto: P.O.BOX 1312#,Xi'an Jiaotong University,Shaanxi,710049,P.R.China --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dir Mr /Ms :
    As a graduate deep in China ,I am doing some research in Routing field for my thesis now .With great respect ,I hope to get some help from the the most authoritative network force ---IETF. But when finished my submission to the mail-list ,I got nothing for the mail , I can not share the resource of the talk on Routing area.Should I go to the mail server to view the newest mails ? What should  I do ? Thanks !
 
 
                                                                                                       yours sincerely,
                                                                                                                   Josh


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P.O.BOX 1312#,Xi'an Jiaotong University,Shaanxi,710049,P.R.China

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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-1320358336-1069850300=:64562-- _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Wed Nov 26 20:40:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08377 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:40:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APB8V-0002vx-6K; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:40:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APB8E-0002tD-J7 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08345 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APB8C-0000gd-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:44 -0500 Received: from web60704.mail.yahoo.com ([216.109.117.227]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APB8B-0000gY-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:43 -0500 Message-ID: <20031127012318.68116.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.213.0.8] by web60704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:23:18 EST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:23:18 -0500 (EST) From: Tulip Rasputin Subject: bgp router id To: routing-discussion@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, I noticed a BGP behaviour and just wanted to confirm if it is indeed an anormal thing to happen. I am not using a loopback IP address nor have I configured a BGP router ID. It thus picks up the highest IP address available as its Router ID for all the BGP session that it establishes. Now when this interface goes down it picks up the next highest IP address that is available and uses it for all subsequent peerings. Isnt this odd? A single router using 2 different router IDs with two different peers? I know this is wrong. Either this router should continue with the same old router ID (even though the interface it not there .. but that hardly matters!) that it had or it should select a new router ID, break off connections with all the previous peers (very expensive!) and establish new connections with peers using this new Router ID. I think it should be the former one. And when it finds that it has no more BGP speakers in FSM state > OpenConfirm it can update use the new Router ID for all subsequent peerings. WOuld like to hear your opinion, Tulip ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 20:40:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08380 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APB8j-0002yr-IM for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:40:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR1eHc1011380 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:40:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APB8V-0002vx-6K; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:40:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APB8E-0002tD-J7 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08345 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APB8C-0000gd-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:44 -0500 Received: from web60704.mail.yahoo.com ([216.109.117.227]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APB8B-0000gY-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:39:43 -0500 Message-ID: <20031127012318.68116.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.213.0.8] by web60704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:23:18 EST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:23:18 -0500 (EST) From: Tulip Rasputin Subject: bgp router id To: routing-discussion@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, I noticed a BGP behaviour and just wanted to confirm if it is indeed an anormal thing to happen. I am not using a loopback IP address nor have I configured a BGP router ID. It thus picks up the highest IP address available as its Router ID for all the BGP session that it establishes. Now when this interface goes down it picks up the next highest IP address that is available and uses it for all subsequent peerings. Isnt this odd? A single router using 2 different router IDs with two different peers? I know this is wrong. Either this router should continue with the same old router ID (even though the interface it not there .. but that hardly matters!) that it had or it should select a new router ID, break off connections with all the previous peers (very expensive!) and establish new connections with peers using this new Router ID. I think it should be the former one. And when it finds that it has no more BGP speakers in FSM state > OpenConfirm it can update use the new Router ID for all subsequent peerings. WOuld like to hear your opinion, Tulip ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Wed Nov 26 23:32:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11483 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APDow-0000uT-QJ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APDou-0000u7-6j for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11465 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:31:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APDos-0002JB-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:31:58 -0500 Received: from dmz2.procket.com ([65.174.124.37]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APDor-0002HV-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:31:57 -0500 Received: from miata.procket.com (zeus-d-1.procket.com [65.174.124.60]) by dmz2.procket.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hAR6aROt033417; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from EXCHANGE0-0.na.procket.com (exchange0a.na.procket.com [10.1.7.7]) by miata.procket.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hAR4VHYB008311; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:31:17 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: bgp router id Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:31:17 -0800 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: bgp router id Thread-Index: AcO0h3pJl12UtMVyT06mXpxDVRiRmAAF6NCw From: "Tony Li" To: "Tulip Rasputin" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a) Since this is a BGP question, it truly belongs on the IDR list. b) Since the router ID is used to resolve the opening of the connection, it does NOT matter which address the router uses as long as it is globally unique. Using an RFC 1918 address would be... unfortunate. Tony | -----Original Message----- | From: Tulip Rasputin [mailto:tulip_rasputin@yahoo.ca]=20 | Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 5:23 PM | To: routing-discussion@ietf.org | Subject: bgp router id | =20 | =20 | Hi, | =20 | I noticed a BGP behaviour and just wanted to confirm if it=20 | is indeed an anormal thing to happen. I | am not using a loopback IP address nor have I configured a=20 | BGP router ID. It thus picks up the | highest IP address available as its Router ID for all the=20 | BGP session that it establishes. Now | when this interface goes down it picks up the next highest=20 | IP address that is available and uses | it for all subsequent peerings. | =20 | Isnt this odd? A single router using 2 different router IDs=20 | with two different peers? | =20 | I know this is wrong. Either this router should continue=20 | with the same old router ID (even though | the interface it not there .. but that hardly matters!) that=20 | it had or it should select a new | router ID, break off connections with all the previous peers=20 | (very expensive!) and establish new | connections with peers using this new Router ID. | =20 | I think it should be the former one. And when it finds that=20 | it has no more BGP speakers in FSM | state > OpenConfirm it can update use the new Router ID for=20 | all subsequent peerings. | =20 | WOuld like to hear your opinion, | =20 | Tulip | =20 | =20 | =20 | _____________________________________________________________ | _________=20 | Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca | =20 | _______________________________________________ | routing-discussion mailing list | routing-discussion@ietf.org | https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion | =20 _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 00:19:11 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11485 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APDp6-0000wt-4e for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR4WBfx003570 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APDow-0000uT-QJ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APDou-0000u7-6j for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:32:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11465 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:31:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APDos-0002JB-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:31:58 -0500 Received: from dmz2.procket.com ([65.174.124.37]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APDor-0002HV-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:31:57 -0500 Received: from miata.procket.com (zeus-d-1.procket.com [65.174.124.60]) by dmz2.procket.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hAR6aROt033417; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from EXCHANGE0-0.na.procket.com (exchange0a.na.procket.com [10.1.7.7]) by miata.procket.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hAR4VHYB008311; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:31:17 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: bgp router id Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:31:17 -0800 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: bgp router id Thread-Index: AcO0h3pJl12UtMVyT06mXpxDVRiRmAAF6NCw From: "Tony Li" To: "Tulip Rasputin" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a) Since this is a BGP question, it truly belongs on the IDR list. b) Since the router ID is used to resolve the opening of the connection, it does NOT matter which address the router uses as long as it is globally unique. Using an RFC 1918 address would be... unfortunate. Tony | -----Original Message----- | From: Tulip Rasputin [mailto:tulip_rasputin@yahoo.ca]=20 | Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 5:23 PM | To: routing-discussion@ietf.org | Subject: bgp router id | =20 | =20 | Hi, | =20 | I noticed a BGP behaviour and just wanted to confirm if it=20 | is indeed an anormal thing to happen. I | am not using a loopback IP address nor have I configured a=20 | BGP router ID. It thus picks up the | highest IP address available as its Router ID for all the=20 | BGP session that it establishes. Now | when this interface goes down it picks up the next highest=20 | IP address that is available and uses | it for all subsequent peerings. | =20 | Isnt this odd? A single router using 2 different router IDs=20 | with two different peers? | =20 | I know this is wrong. Either this router should continue=20 | with the same old router ID (even though | the interface it not there .. but that hardly matters!) that=20 | it had or it should select a new | router ID, break off connections with all the previous peers=20 | (very expensive!) and establish new | connections with peers using this new Router ID. | =20 | I think it should be the former one. And when it finds that=20 | it has no more BGP speakers in FSM | state > OpenConfirm it can update use the new Router ID for=20 | all subsequent peerings. | =20 | WOuld like to hear your opinion, | =20 | Tulip | =20 | =20 | =20 | _____________________________________________________________ | _________=20 | Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca | =20 | _______________________________________________ | routing-discussion mailing list | routing-discussion@ietf.org | https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion | =20 _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Thu Nov 27 00:38:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA13296 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:38:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEqn-0003vW-RF; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:38:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEqO-0003ot-T4 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA13283 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEqM-00035o-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:34 -0500 Received: from web60709.mail.yahoo.com ([216.109.117.232]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEqL-00035U-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20031127044040.40312.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.213.0.8] by web60709.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:40:40 EST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:40:40 -0500 (EST) From: Tulip Rasputin Subject: RE: bgp router id To: Tony.Li@procket.com, routing-discussion@ietf.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > a) Since this is a BGP question, it truly belongs on the IDR list. Am sorry .. will take it there next time. > b) Since the router ID is used to resolve the opening of the connection, > it does NOT matter which address the router uses as long as it is Unfortunately, its not so simple. Router IDs are used by peers in their decision process to decide which route they want to choose, given multiple equal preference routes. Router IDs are also used by Route Reflectors when they reflect a route. This lets the clients and the RRs decide if a loop has been formed, etc. My concern is that if a router uses two distinct router IDs then there is a potential for a routing loop to be formed. Regards, Tulip ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 00:38:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA13298 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:38:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEqv-0003xl-IC for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:38:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR5c9a3015151 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:38:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEqn-0003vW-RF; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:38:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEqO-0003ot-T4 for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA13283 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEqM-00035o-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:34 -0500 Received: from web60709.mail.yahoo.com ([216.109.117.232]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEqL-00035U-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:37:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20031127044040.40312.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.213.0.8] by web60709.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:40:40 EST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:40:40 -0500 (EST) From: Tulip Rasputin Subject: RE: bgp router id To: Tony.Li@procket.com, routing-discussion@ietf.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > a) Since this is a BGP question, it truly belongs on the IDR list. Am sorry .. will take it there next time. > b) Since the router ID is used to resolve the opening of the connection, > it does NOT matter which address the router uses as long as it is Unfortunately, its not so simple. Router IDs are used by peers in their decision process to decide which route they want to choose, given multiple equal preference routes. Router IDs are also used by Route Reflectors when they reflect a route. This lets the clients and the RRs decide if a loop has been formed, etc. My concern is that if a router uses two distinct router IDs then there is a potential for a routing loop to be formed. Regards, Tulip ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Thu Nov 27 04:43:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01798 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:43:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIft-0000SL-7l; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIfP-0000S0-4C for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01789 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APIfL-0005ns-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:27 -0500 Received: from mignon.ki.iif.hu ([193.6.222.240]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APIfK-0005nZ-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mignon.ki.iif.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32796EE0; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from mignon.ki.iif.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mignon.ki.iif.hu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 52660-01; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Received: by mignon.ki.iif.hu (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 13FEA6E4E; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mignon.ki.iif.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11AD86E46; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) From: Mohacsi Janos X-X-Sender: mohacsi@mignon.ki.iif.hu To: Tulip Rasputin Cc: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: Re: bgp router id In-Reply-To: <20031127012318.68116.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031127100526.V21943@mignon.ki.iif.hu> References: <20031127012318.68116.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Tulip Rasputin wrote: > Hi, > > I noticed a BGP behaviour and just wanted to confirm if it is indeed an anormal thing to happen. I > am not using a loopback IP address nor have I configured a BGP router ID. It thus picks up the > highest IP address available as its Router ID for all the BGP session that it establishes. Now > when this interface goes down it picks up the next highest IP address that is available and uses > it for all subsequent peerings. > > Isnt this odd? A single router using 2 different router IDs with two different peers? > > I know this is wrong. Either this router should continue with the same old router ID (even though > the interface it not there .. but that hardly matters!) that it had or it should select a new > router ID, break off connections with all the previous peers (very expensive!) and establish new > connections with peers using this new Router ID. > > I think it should be the former one. And when it finds that it has no more BGP speakers in FSM > state > OpenConfirm it can update use the new Router ID for all subsequent peerings. > > WOuld like to hear your opinion, > I think, your problem of breaking the connection is implementation specific. The is rule of thumb configuring router-id if you don't use loopback address. For example if you use IPv6 only BGP routing (no IPv4 address at all), you have to assign router-id, otherwise BGP does not start! Regards, Janos Mohacsi Network Engineer, Research Associate NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE 21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98 > Tulip > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________ > routing-discussion mailing list > routing-discussion@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion > _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 04:43:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01813 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:43:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIg5-0000TI-8y for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:43:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR9hCmv001808 for routing-discussion-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:43:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIft-0000SL-7l; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIfP-0000S0-4C for routing-discussion@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01789 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APIfL-0005ns-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:27 -0500 Received: from mignon.ki.iif.hu ([193.6.222.240]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APIfK-0005nZ-00 for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mignon.ki.iif.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32796EE0; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from mignon.ki.iif.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mignon.ki.iif.hu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 52660-01; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Received: by mignon.ki.iif.hu (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 13FEA6E4E; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mignon.ki.iif.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11AD86E46; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:41:55 +0100 (CET) From: Mohacsi Janos X-X-Sender: mohacsi@mignon.ki.iif.hu To: Tulip Rasputin Cc: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: Re: bgp router id In-Reply-To: <20031127012318.68116.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031127100526.V21943@mignon.ki.iif.hu> References: <20031127012318.68116.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Tulip Rasputin wrote: > Hi, > > I noticed a BGP behaviour and just wanted to confirm if it is indeed an anormal thing to happen. I > am not using a loopback IP address nor have I configured a BGP router ID. It thus picks up the > highest IP address available as its Router ID for all the BGP session that it establishes. Now > when this interface goes down it picks up the next highest IP address that is available and uses > it for all subsequent peerings. > > Isnt this odd? A single router using 2 different router IDs with two different peers? > > I know this is wrong. Either this router should continue with the same old router ID (even though > the interface it not there .. but that hardly matters!) that it had or it should select a new > router ID, break off connections with all the previous peers (very expensive!) and establish new > connections with peers using this new Router ID. > > I think it should be the former one. And when it finds that it has no more BGP speakers in FSM > state > OpenConfirm it can update use the new Router ID for all subsequent peerings. > > WOuld like to hear your opinion, > I think, your problem of breaking the connection is implementation specific. The is rule of thumb configuring router-id if you don't use loopback address. For example if you use IPv6 only BGP routing (no IPv4 address at all), you have to assign router-id, otherwise BGP does not start! Regards, Janos Mohacsi Network Engineer, Research Associate NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY Key 00F9AF98: 8645 1312 D249 471B DBAE 21A2 9F52 0D1F 00F9 AF98 > Tulip > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________ > routing-discussion mailing list > routing-discussion@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion > _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion