From ietfa@btconnect.com Fri Jan 27 10:23:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: routing-discussion@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: routing-discussion@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC3D21F85F0 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:23:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOsw63Bxyos6 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:23:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.btconnect.com (c2beaomr08.btconnect.com [213.123.26.186]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D34821F85EC for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from host86-163-138-100.range86-163.btcentralplus.com (HELO pc6) ([86.163.138.100]) by c2beaomr08.btconnect.com with SMTP id FZA51885; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:23:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <020901ccdd18$69bab8a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: "t.petch" To: , References: <063901ccbfce$bebda6d0$3c38f470$@olddog.co.uk> Subject: Re: Your thoughts on cross area work Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:20:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=Fair-1, source=Queried, refid=tid=0001.0A0B0303.4F22EB90.004C, actions=tag X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=7/50, refid=2.7.2:2012.1.27.173616:17:7.586, ip=86.163.138.100, rules=__HAS_MSGID, __OUTLOOK_MSGID_1, __SANE_MSGID, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, CT_TP_8859_1, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN, __CTE, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, BODY_SIZE_3000_3999, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS, RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC, __OUTLOOK_MUA, RDNS_SUSP, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=c2beaomr08.btconnect.com X-Junkmail-Signature-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A0B0202.4F22EB90.0159,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2011-07-25 19:15:43, dmn=2011-05-27 18:58:46, mode=multiengine X-Junkmail-IWF: false X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:23:16 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:53 AM Subject: Your thoughts on cross area work > Hi, > > Your thoughts on the attached I-D would be welcome. I do not think that this gets it quite right, at least looking at it from down below; perhaps it makes more sense from an AD viewpoint. I sometimes forget, sometimes do not know, what Area a WG is in, and it does not seem to matter. What matters is that there is a WG to which the task is assigned. My experience from higher up, in a different context, was that to get things done, someone has to own 'it' and making ownership clear was the key to progress. So the task needs defining, put in a charter and given to a WG; those interested then get involved, subscribe, attend meetings and so on. Which Area does not seem relevant. The main influence that I see that an IETF Area has is which AD gets involved as and when an AD gets involved, which is sometimes not until the AD review prior to Last Call, and sometimes I am then surprised to find out who the AD is:-). The other influence may be in the WG scheduling at meetings, when my impression is that an Area looks after its own better than avoiding clashes with WG in other Areas. The other factor that I miss seeing in this I-D is the impact of the various directorates, of the cross-area reviews. If the WG to which a task is assigned is weak on flow control, security, etc, then those reviews that pop up at Last Call shine a light on this; good Chairs recognise the weakness earlier and ask for an early review. And in some cases, such as SNMP, there is a list for this purpose (not many people know that:-( But, as I say, it may be that the view from the IESG is quite different. Tom Petch > > Adrian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] > > On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: 21 December 2011 07:17 > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > Subject: I-D Action: draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-00.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > > > Title : Experiences from Cross-Area Work at the IETF > > Author(s) : Jari Arkko > > Filename : draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-00.txt > > Pages : 10 > > Date : 2011-12-20 > > > > This memo discusses the reasons for IETF work on topics that cross > > area boundaries. Such cross-area work presents challenges for the > > organization of the IETF as well as on how interested parties can > > participate the work. The memo also provides some suggestions on > > managing these challenges. > > > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-00.txt > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-00.txt > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > _______________________________________________ > routing-discussion mailing list > routing-discussion@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion > >