From mukund.mani@gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 04:05:35 2010
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 17:36:49 +0530
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Subject: Regarding BFD session Detection Multiplier change
From: Mukund Mani <mukund.mani@gmail.com>
To: dkatz@juniper.net
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--001485f78ed2aa089204966c413f
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Hi Dave

Section 6.8.12 of the BFD base draft mentions that Poll Sequence is not
required for Detect Multiplier changes.

Since in Asyncronous mode Detection Time Interval is calculated based on
Remote Detect Multiplier, is it not required to initiate a poll as is done
for changes in
Desired Tx and Required rx interval.

Or is it expected to re-calculate the Detection time on every packet
receival..?

Any specific reason why we dont restore to a  Poll during Detect Mult change
which I may be missing here??


With Regards
Mukund

--001485f78ed2aa089204966c413f
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<div>Hi Dave</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Section 6.8.12 of the BFD base draft mentions that Poll Sequence is no=
t required for Detect Multiplier changes.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Since in Asyncronous mode Detection Time Interval is calculated based =
on Remote Detect Multiplier, is it not required to initiate a poll as is do=
ne for changes in</div>
<div>Desired Tx and Required rx interval.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Or is it expected to re-calculate the Detection time on every packet r=
eceival..?</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Any specific reason why=A0we dont restore to a =A0Poll=A0during Detect=
 Mult change which I may be missing here??</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>With Regards</div>
<div>Mukund</div>

--001485f78ed2aa089204966c413f--

From dkatz@juniper.net  Thu Dec  2 08:59:42 2010
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Subject: Re: Regarding BFD session Detection Multiplier change
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From: Dave Katz <dkatz@juniper.net>
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Changing the multiplier doesn't require a poll sequence because the =
sending system does not change its transmit interval.  This means that =
the remote system cannot accidentally time out the session during the =
transition.

For example, if the transmit interval was 1 sec and the multiplier was =
changing from 3 to 2, the fact that the remote end's detection time is =
switching from three seconds to two is irrelevant;  the local system =
will keep on sending packets at the same rate and doesn't really care =
*when* the detection time changes.

In contrast, if the sender did something that increased its transmit =
interval (decreased the rate), it would need to know that the far end =
had upped its detection time before slowing down transmissions, or the =
session would be at risk.

Hope this helps.

--Dave

On Dec 2, 2010, at 4:06 AM, Mukund Mani wrote:

> Hi Dave
> =20
> Section 6.8.12 of the BFD base draft mentions that Poll Sequence is =
not required for Detect Multiplier changes.
> =20
> Since in Asyncronous mode Detection Time Interval is calculated based =
on Remote Detect Multiplier, is it not required to initiate a poll as is =
done for changes in
> Desired Tx and Required rx interval.
> =20
> Or is it expected to re-calculate the Detection time on every packet =
receival..?
> =20
> Any specific reason why we dont restore to a  Poll during Detect Mult =
change which I may be missing here??
> =20
> =20
> With Regards
> Mukund


From binnyjeshan@gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 23:25:11 2010
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Subject: Query on "draft-asm-mpls-tp-bfd-cc-cv-02"
From: binny jeshan <binnyjeshan@gmail.com>
To: annamaria.fulignoli@ericsson.com, sboutros@cisco.com,  martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com
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Hello draft authors,

Please clarify on the below rules mentioned in
draft-asm-mpls-tp-bfd-cc-cv-02 section-3.4

1. When running the unidirectional state machine the M bit MUST be always
set to 1.
2. a Mis-connectivity defect SHOULD be also detected if an unexpected M bit
value is received.

As i understand in reading draft-katz-ward-bfd-multipoint-02 section 4, this
M bit is meant for P2MP networks.
Please help me understand your thought in setting this M bit to be set on
Unidirectional Sessions? Why do we need to declare CV fault based on false M
bit for P2P networks?


Thanks,
Binny Jeshan.

--0016e641dc04c0f7bc049690923e
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<div>Hello draft authors,<br>=A0<br>Please clarify on the below rules menti=
oned in draft-asm-mpls-tp-bfd-cc-cv-02 section-3.4<br>=A0<br>1. When runnin=
g the unidirectional state machine the M bit MUST be always set to 1.<br>2.=
 a Mis-connectivity defect SHOULD be also detected if an unexpected M bit v=
alue is received.<br>
=A0<br>As i understand in reading draft-katz-ward-bfd-multipoint-02 section=
 4, this M bit is meant for P2MP networks.=A0<br>Please help me understand =
your thought=A0in setting this M bit to be set on Unidirectional Sessions? =
Why do we need to declare CV fault=A0based on false=A0M bit for P2P network=
s?=A0<br>
=A0<br>=A0<br>Thanks,<br>Binny Jeshan.</div>

--0016e641dc04c0f7bc049690923e--

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 13:18:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian <sambath_kumar_b@yahoo.com>
Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
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Hi,

  I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we receive
a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to DOWN.

 Thanks,
Sambath


From davari@broadcom.com  Tue Dec  7 13:34:50 2010
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From: "Shahram Davari" <davari@broadcom.com>
To: "Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian" <sambath_kumar_b@yahoo.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 13:36:05 -0800
Subject: RE: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
Thread-Topic: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
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Hi Sambath,

No. You should remain in INIT state. Otherwise the session can never start.

Thx
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:19 PM
To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE

Hi,

  I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we receive
a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to DOWN.

 Thanks,
Sambath




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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:03:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian <sambath_kumar_b@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
To: Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Shahram,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry missed an obvious point

 Regards,
Sambath



----- Original Message ----
From: Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>
To: Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian <sambath_kumar_b@yahoo.com>; 
"rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 1:36:05 PM
Subject: RE: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE

Hi Sambath,

No. You should remain in INIT state. Otherwise the session can never start.

Thx
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of 
Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:19 PM
To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE

Hi,

  I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we receive
a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to DOWN.

Thanks,
Sambath

From dkatz@juniper.net  Tue Dec  7 15:23:59 2010
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Subject: Re: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
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Yep.  The thing to remember is that this is about *states*, not about =
*events*.  Or rather, events are local constructs based on state =
transitions.

In particular, you don't have to catch the edge of anything in order to =
end up in the right place (packets can be dropped, etc.)

--Dave

On Dec 7, 2010, at 1:36 PM, Shahram Davari wrote:

> Hi Sambath,
>=20
> No. You should remain in INIT state. Otherwise the session can never =
start.
>=20
> Thx
> Shahram
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:19 PM
> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>  I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we =
receive
> a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to =
DOWN.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Sambath
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com  Tue Dec  7 16:42:43 2010
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 06:14:06 +0530
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Subject: Re: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
From: Vishwas Manral <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com>
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Hi Shahram,

I am not sure what you mean by the session can never start, however
the idea of INIT state is that we have heard from our neighbor, but
the neighbor has not heard from us (which is what happens when we
receive a Hello from the neighbor in DOWN state).

Thanks,
Vishwas

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:06 AM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:
> Hi Sambath,
>
> No. You should remain in INIT state. Otherwise the session can never star=
t.
>
> Thx
> Shahram
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal=
f Of Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:19 PM
> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
> Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
>
> Hi,
>
> =A0I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we recei=
ve
> a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to DOWN.
>
> =A0Thanks,
> Sambath
>
>
>
>

From dkatz@juniper.net  Tue Dec  7 22:39:28 2010
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On Dec 7, 2010, at 4:44 PM, Vishwas Manral wrote:

> Hi Shahram,
>=20
> I am not sure what you mean by the session can never start, however
> the idea of INIT state is that we have heard from our neighbor, but
> the neighbor has not heard from us (which is what happens when we
> receive a Hello from the neighbor in DOWN state).

I think the point is that if you were Init and the far end said Down and =
you went back to Down in response, you may get stuck forever cycling =
between Down and Init.

In any case, the state machine is clear on what to do.

--Dave

>=20
> Thanks,
> Vishwas
>=20
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:06 AM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> =
wrote:
>> Hi Sambath,
>>=20
>> No. You should remain in INIT state. Otherwise the session can never =
start.
>>=20
>> Thx
>> Shahram
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:19 PM
>> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
>> Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
>>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>>  I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we =
receive
>> a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to =
DOWN.
>>=20
>>  Thanks,
>> Sambath
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20


From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com  Wed Dec  8 01:46:00 2010
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 15:17:24 +0530
Message-ID: <AANLkTimPxbFScteNxm7mmurWYAw4_fq7CWuMaD=YAzay@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
From: Vishwas Manral <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Dave Katz <dkatz@juniper.net>
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Hi Dave,

I understand that part, however the basic thing is that a state
transition depends not only on the event but also current state. So we
could always have had a state of down if we got Down from the neighbor
and were in UP state. However the way Init state is defined is not
that way. This will not cause any issues.

It is the definition of the state INIT because of which we go into
Init and not DOWN. I know there is a subtle difference but an
important difference never the less.

Thanks,
Vishwas

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Dave Katz <dkatz@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2010, at 4:44 PM, Vishwas Manral wrote:
>
>> Hi Shahram,
>>
>> I am not sure what you mean by the session can never start, however
>> the idea of INIT state is that we have heard from our neighbor, but
>> the neighbor has not heard from us (which is what happens when we
>> receive a Hello from the neighbor in DOWN state).
>
> I think the point is that if you were Init and the far end said Down and =
you went back to Down in response, you may get stuck forever cycling betwee=
n Down and Init.
>
> In any case, the state machine is clear on what to do.
>
> --Dave
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vishwas
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:06 AM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wro=
te:
>>> Hi Sambath,
>>>
>>> No. You should remain in INIT state. Otherwise the session can never st=
art.
>>>
>>> Thx
>>> Shahram
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On Beh=
alf Of Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:19 PM
>>> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> =A0I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we rec=
eive
>>> a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to DOW=
N.
>>>
>>> =A0Thanks,
>>> Sambath
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

From dkatz@juniper.net  Wed Dec  8 10:59:57 2010
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I think the point is that if you follow the description of the state =
machine, it will work, and if you don't, it probably won't.  ;-)

--Dave


On Dec 8, 2010, at 1:47 AM, Vishwas Manral wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>=20
> I understand that part, however the basic thing is that a state
> transition depends not only on the event but also current state. So we
> could always have had a state of down if we got Down from the neighbor
> and were in UP state. However the way Init state is defined is not
> that way. This will not cause any issues.
>=20
> It is the definition of the state INIT because of which we go into
> Init and not DOWN. I know there is a subtle difference but an
> important difference never the less.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Vishwas
>=20
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Dave Katz <dkatz@juniper.net> wrote:
>>=20
>> On Dec 7, 2010, at 4:44 PM, Vishwas Manral wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi Shahram,
>>>=20
>>> I am not sure what you mean by the session can never start, however
>>> the idea of INIT state is that we have heard from our neighbor, but
>>> the neighbor has not heard from us (which is what happens when we
>>> receive a Hello from the neighbor in DOWN state).
>>=20
>> I think the point is that if you were Init and the far end said Down =
and you went back to Down in response, you may get stuck forever cycling =
between Down and Init.
>>=20
>> In any case, the state machine is clear on what to do.
>>=20
>> --Dave
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> Vishwas
>>>=20
>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:06 AM, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> =
wrote:
>>>> Hi Sambath,
>>>>=20
>>>> No. You should remain in INIT state. Otherwise the session can =
never start.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thx
>>>> Shahram
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Sambath Kumar Balasubramanian
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:19 PM
>>>> To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Remote DOWN event in INIT STATE
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi,
>>>>=20
>>>>  I have a basic doubt in BFD. When the local state is INIT and we =
receive
>>>> a session DOWN from the remote, should'nt we directly transition to =
DOWN.
>>>>=20
>>>>  Thanks,
>>>> Sambath
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20