From nobody Fri Mar 4 14:35:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7ADB1A9231 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:35:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tNulPiiroyvl for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x22b.google.com (mail-pa0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B76B81A9176 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id bj10so42105815pad.2 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:35:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=OIejjz7aaQkRXp7gNhlvaq7mIHUCsonQQAlCvqvG+3M=; b=wFBv6x+4Mi34p2EjrtBY6mrxb5wTOFoBA9YX1byH5Rw6DS30dp8XoKFOTswNzkkvtU /30qHVvGdsuoNcOE8hDOuqb/qF3W+Gdp7dYwU/k099gqsFZ/udE+4IqjHuzoqgiDi37e T3m38Zkl4ox6Jazh35V3DJp1rJMUzGuiLZLANNXCcfRDWLhJ43vNJb8JM+XeFyJw28XJ X0ni6Jcay9Z2rEUCFwAjxntklKB40EJ3vKs/hVgemGKAh9VAoRF/GwB7ve/1OuvA121W HOHWPtlFa2WitP6mPYSmK9fA+dP5a6/tOmZfc21NPK1TRLql5TjqERJB1EIztAj8pNOw MEHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=OIejjz7aaQkRXp7gNhlvaq7mIHUCsonQQAlCvqvG+3M=; b=HEQVRo0NJrPVyY9PRTMaF9ASBsmv1ibiCqgPn+O8yY31wx+OTcH1cbcfcd7/sFjMK1 80wJnokVT8up1Fb3Zg/fSLz0y75Klicbk54n4Qqwnx59wyDncF019G+jPYM8Dg66/t+S yKcFs7qL+LbYZf5WG5tpMrcbjKop6G4soQ/MEJ+7d4BizWBlpQyxSqGvdxocvwNswUSh /Bj1M6L91kYg6rdRhcXbZqYKSDSuifmxlYiIc1H1yu3SpEpeRhiQgggmTN5eSNrs3Y+u CWxNYHbydheX7pI/1CedfGoQzBLv1ac+qLz8eBTHp2vLBTjCOvAhX1p4mg8QI4CwFx7P jNAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJI7rkCOPuBmQezjeVqtru/HE9QWaDLxirfO+d1XcTZktPVgiRnoIaQY1k4xhgWqSg== X-Received: by 10.66.185.227 with SMTP id ff3mr15589016pac.117.1457130948383; Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:c0c8:1002::74? ([2001:420:c0c8:1002::74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i23sm7740735pfj.68.2016.03.04.14.35.46 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:35:47 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C94B6344-030C-443D-85B0-8BDE23C81D10" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-ashesh-bfd-stability-04.txt From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <20160304223008.20209.36341.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:35:45 -0800 Message-Id: References: <20160304223008.20209.36341.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: Santosh Pallagatti , Peng Fan X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 22:35:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C94B6344-030C-443D-85B0-8BDE23C81D10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We have updated the draft based on the comments received. > On Mar 4, 2016, at 2:30 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ashesh-bfd-stability-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani and posted to = the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-ashesh-bfd-stability > Revision: 04 > Title: BFD Stability > Document date: 2016-03-03 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 6 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ashesh-bfd-stability-04.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ashesh-bfd-stability/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ashesh-bfd-stability-04 > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ashesh-bfd-stability-04 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes extensions to the Bidirectional Forwarding > Detection (BFD) protocol to measure BFD stability. Specifically, it > describes a mechanism for detection of BFD frame loss as well as > local delay measurements for BFD transmitter and receiver. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_C94B6344-030C-443D-85B0-8BDE23C81D10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii We have updated the draft based on the comments received.

On Mar 4, 2016, at 2:30 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A new = version of I-D, draft-ashesh-bfd-stability-04.txt
has been = successfully submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: = draft-ashesh-bfd-stability
Revision: 04
Title:= = BFD Stability
Document date: = 2016-03-03
Group: Individual Submission
Pages:= = 6
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ashesh-bfd-stability= -04.txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ashesh-bfd-stability/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ashesh-bfd-stability-04Diff: =           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ashesh-bfd-stability-= 04

Abstract:
=   This document describes extensions to the Bidirectional = Forwarding
  Detection (BFD) protocol to = measure BFD stability.  Specifically, it
=   describes a mechanism for detection of BFD frame loss as = well as
  local delay measurements for BFD = transmitter and receiver.





Please note that it may take a = couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the = htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





= --Apple-Mail=_C94B6344-030C-443D-85B0-8BDE23C81D10-- From nobody Fri Mar 18 06:33:46 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6056912D5CF for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 06:33:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z1vmol4LBwcY for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 06:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDCF012D51B for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 06:25:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3664; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1458307521; x=1459517121; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=UnJJU1ZncPzRTSucun9Dya8CLGDm6yw9s1U3NRYGFOw=; b=IjCH83CYwX2XAH3vFm8yAm7R2JMYDMvsyiT5CqAxmHQ3Gw0iS5R/Kr0/ 2Nh4m6CSWn/hOvTNu4jXvtPEMg3IPFYeaVyFz34aLjYHcF0aU6kKylU+p 9oabZ8pygtbVxiXerjDj0mEpjpet/QrmREfQFJlbHOd2b3C9OJsjjtq22 g=; X-Files: signature.asc : 841 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DLAgBzAexW/49dJa1eg0VTcgaqL49mD?= =?us-ascii?q?oFvI4VqgS84FAEBAQEBAQFkJ4RIIwZiAQJIAjQnBAEgiBkOsWSPWgEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBEQQEhh6Bc4ReghABAU+CTiuCKwWXVwGDHYFmbYgTjwePBQEeA?= =?us-ascii?q?UODZWoBiTA0fgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,355,1454976000"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="84204286" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 18 Mar 2016 13:25:20 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com (xch-rtp-004.cisco.com [64.101.220.144]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2IDPKYw013283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:25:20 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 09:25:19 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 09:25:19 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "" , "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Subject: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Topic: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Index: AQHRgRmehvsBSeN050WZO8rTfSpw3A== Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:25:19 +0000 Message-ID: <9DFFE299-F3FF-4F18-98E7-3FF296A59600@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.251.106] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C09C4279-3DAE-4112-86BB-0DA233D418EF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:33:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C09C4279-3DAE-4112-86BB-0DA233D418EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 BFD Group, chairs, =C3=81lvaro, Since BFD will not be meeting in IETF95 [1], I=E2=80=99m sending this = message to the list attempting to understand the state, potential = dependencies, and timing for advancing the S-BFD documents. Note that [1] says: =E2=80=9C- S-BFD is done, AD comments being addressed.=E2=80=9D Currently, draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base-08, submitted on 2016-02-23, = addressed all of the AD Evaluation comments. Bfd-seamless-base is a hard = (Normative) dependency on 5 other documents [2], which are stuck waiting = for -base to move (bfd-seamless-ip, isis-sbfd, ospf-sbfd, l2tpext-sbfd, = and pals-seamless-vccv). Not progressing bfd-seamless-base is blocking 6 = docs (including itself) One of the changes made as part of the AD Evaluation of = draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base is to make the rational for S-BFD in the = Introduction independent (i.e., not Normatively dependent) from the use = cases in bfs-seamless-use-case. Basically, bfd-seamless-base includes = self-defined self-contained rational for the protocol, and informatively = points to use-cases. The bfd-seamless-use-case document was last submitted in July 2015. I = can appreciate the fact that publishing use-cases after the protocol is = potentially of little value =E2=80=94 there is a value in that those = use-cases can guide extensions to the protocol. But it also concerns me = that there seems to be very little value for the base document to wait = on publishing the use-cases first, since the -base protocol is done and = the base document was updated to be independent from use cases. The use = case document is only referenced by the -base document, and that pointer = is Informative [3]. What=E2=80=99s the plan on pushing forward bfd-seamless-base (and = untangling the other 5)? Is there something for the WG or editors to do = (I assume not since -base has no dependencies and all AD Evaluation = comments have been addressed)? Net-net: I=E2=80=99d recommend moving -base (and dependents) forward. Thanks, =E2=80=94 Carlos. [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-bfd/current/msg03108.html [2] = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base/referencedby= / [3] = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case/referenc= edby/ --Apple-Mail=_C09C4279-3DAE-4112-86BB-0DA233D418EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJW7AG/AAoJEIXgpQGOZny9o0wP/3v3KwlUr15v8EgFdXk3SWNZ /e7fxQni3Vn0BN2AykjgVLaOc/Ow5c9djvDv/E8WvLp/Si+NzK60ItDU+FkFk5fd H0plCFeLrQ8q41bt7/ONYoIQ4BK9k5tn+qy70+sQocjGScR3k5MuBEwotB8Zsn6l 5UdTUqZpqJUqtH3pFu+epvGMy5BFtJVMFtW+swTHXDAT8UCd3NOz3Bx7/VyNbgHR Ama3WcMwV3eAJ2bxP4a+tzUNpHgWnHdMi22WSPnLVrnYuQnQHG0P3OhrEhnFONae 6SDuktFFB8toYtvKjJgVU0eO5Q1//T4IOhjcMRbwvSgaYmjjdgbPkoufmhT5Ro8Y 2Qc3JB80e60UD+6V0+pInfIDb9GB3xBvsu/rOV5NDKrXEBUbUT2NV7fmrF+K8knJ IdVrlEumeuSFILoRcOw/gTI2YwnO+y0S7oN0menCL7gjIpT5A70Z5egP+fC9JrvB Fqf/Glp9tMCDCqGMXkDrAySlfrvnNcfC0t5DEDtdfM5u5vCXwna4mqjoRq+BXSyt WAzAPX6yYxjErOO3zjBHUKpQXY3wZgpie3772Y2bzr5fGAs6qmnecxzNKjzKi7SF rxDrW6I6/Nxptwj0ddJyX0jJPELrAZSk8bRkNCActrLLTeS8+r0lRtmOUhkOtoep CbYoMFgbq4v2daeeprrq =8Dhe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_C09C4279-3DAE-4112-86BB-0DA233D418EF-- From nobody Fri Mar 18 13:31:14 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3261A12D6AD for ; 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Fri, 18 Mar 2016 20:31:09 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:31:08 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:31:08 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , "" Subject: Re: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Topic: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Index: AQHRgRmehvsBSeN050WZO8rTfSpw3J9fuMCA Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 20:31:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9DFFE299-F3FF-4F18-98E7-3FF296A59600@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9DFFE299-F3FF-4F18-98E7-3FF296A59600@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <6E1A186252DD5143AC78669610590BFD@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 20:31:12 -0000 On 3/18/16, 9:25 AM, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" wrote: Carlos: Hi! >BFD Group, chairs, =C1lvaro, I'm replying because the WG already asked for publication of the base S-BFD documents (including the use-cases). ... >The bfd-seamless-use-case document was last submitted in July 2015. I can >appreciate the fact that publishing use-cases after the protocol is >potentially of little value =8B there is a value in that those use-cases >can guide extensions to the protocol. But it also concerns me that there >seems to be very little value for the base document to wait on publishing >the use-cases first, since the -base protocol is done and the base >document was updated to be independent from use cases. The use case >document is only referenced by the -base document, and that pointer is >Informative [3]. > >What=B9s the plan on pushing forward bfd-seamless-base (and untangling the >other 5)? Is there something for the WG or editors to do (I assume not >since -base has no dependencies and all AD Evaluation comments have been >addressed)? I had asked the WG to consider not publishing draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case [A], but after a lengthy exchange with the authors and a discussion at IETF 94, the WG decided to "give another chance to the authors" [B]. Last week I met with one of the authors of draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case; he assured me that he will be working on the document in short order. As you mentioned above, there is little value in publishing the use cases *after* the solution. The way forward is simple: I'll wait for draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case before progressing all 3 base documents together. If the WG changes its mind (about publishing draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case) then we will have other options. =20 >Net-net: I=B9d recommend moving -base (and dependents) forward. I want to point out that there are 5 authors *and* 5 contributors listed in draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case (including 4 of the 5 authors of draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base). I would hope that we could find more than one person willing and able to complete the work -- and not depend on just one. Thanks! Alvaro. [A]=20 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/kin3Me4WrKbe9WljhkSfkKvsefA [B] https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-bfd From nobody Fri Mar 18 16:25:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 201BD12D55D for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 16:25:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kkd08RqgqYS8 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 16:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47FA512D557 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 16:25:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=13958; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1458343550; x=1459553150; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=45dPwPYv4yxVjr+dXWLbgzr/k4JpQXGpJ/y51Olk0J0=; b=C3EXvar883PbV/Eb1MBhGvYmawcuS4uNvcDlIW7zvG8XWJcAr8MDxs51 aPLTgTLp1LS9SCAZj491TB0WNyjg7m5jFG8ZrYOMCnqRYPczckTbkEUQu e1IJc2E/2wEPbSHfthgkD2J7E/8KU/bEink8eW5SOz2Qd729Ob8DewFVW c=; X-Files: signature.asc : 841 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DvAgDrjexW/4gNJK1eg0RTYw8GtSOEb?= =?us-ascii?q?g6BbyOFagKBLDgUAQEBAQEBAWQnhEEBAQEDASMGUAULAgECBAIYKgICMiUCBA4?= =?us-ascii?q?FDg2IBAgOA5QInRePQwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQ0EBIYegXOCUYRpg?= =?us-ascii?q?lMrgisBBIdWhxaEGIRTAYMdgWZtgnKFIYFlhEqIWI8FAR4BQ4NlaokoBDl+AQE?= =?us-ascii?q?B?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,357,1454976000"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="251236060" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Mar 2016 23:25:48 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-002.cisco.com (xch-rtp-002.cisco.com [64.101.220.142]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2INPmVO017718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 23:25:48 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-002.cisco.com (64.101.220.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 19:25:40 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 19:25:34 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Subject: Re: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Topic: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Index: AQHRgRmeiLXTV+ZxbEiKP1Ys9eShY59f6w8AgAAwvYA= Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 23:25:34 +0000 Message-ID: <52E423A1-74DB-4A3F-B7E9-2C1130EF9AA3@cisco.com> References: <9DFFE299-F3FF-4F18-98E7-3FF296A59600@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.251.106] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BBD177DD-928C-4733-A334-BEDF66AEB8E5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "" X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 23:25:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BBD177DD-928C-4733-A334-BEDF66AEB8E5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E649DC7C-9D90-49F2-98BA-57EEE98F9577" --Apple-Mail=_E649DC7C-9D90-49F2-98BA-57EEE98F9577 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 =C3=81lvaro, Thanks for the response! =E2=80=94 please see inline. > On Mar 18, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) = wrote: >=20 > On 3/18/16, 9:25 AM, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" = > wrote: >=20 > Carlos: >=20 > Hi! >=20 >> BFD Group, chairs, =C3=81lvaro, >=20 > I'm replying because the WG already asked for publication of the base > S-BFD documents (including the use-cases). >=20 > ... >> The bfd-seamless-use-case document was last submitted in July 2015. I = can >> appreciate the fact that publishing use-cases after the protocol is >> potentially of little value =E2=80=B9 there is a value in that those = use-cases >> can guide extensions to the protocol. But it also concerns me that = there >> seems to be very little value for the base document to wait on = publishing >> the use-cases first, since the -base protocol is done and the base >> document was updated to be independent from use cases. The use case >> document is only referenced by the -base document, and that pointer = is >> Informative [3]. >>=20 >> What=C2=B9s the plan on pushing forward bfd-seamless-base (and = untangling the >> other 5)? Is there something for the WG or editors to do (I assume = not >> since -base has no dependencies and all AD Evaluation comments have = been >> addressed)? >=20 > I had asked the WG to consider not publishing > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case [A], but after a lengthy exchange = with > the authors and a discussion at IETF 94, the WG decided to "give = another > chance to the authors" [B]. >=20 A video [=CE=A8] is worth a lot more than a thousand meeting minutes = [B]. I must say that [=CE=A8] conveys the sentiment with much more = richness! [B] that you cite says: "[Jeff] S-BFD use case document publication status - what is the feeling of WG? = Taking sense of the room. Do you think we should publish this? Not to publish = this? Two people have opinion on this, one way or the other. Sense of WG is = that this is not critical work, will give another chance to the authors.=E2=80=9D Basically: =E2=80=9CTwo people have opinion on this=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Cthis is not critical work=E2=80=9D "will give another chance to the authors=E2=80=9D That does not sounds terribly convincing. Don=E2=80=99t get me wrong =E2=80= =94 I personally have no strong opinion about what to do with use-case; = in fact, I find it terribly disappointing and even demoralizing that = folks invest their volunteer time to get to Finish_Line_minus_5_minutes = and be told =E2=80=98the race got cancelled=E2=80=99. I believe those = decisions are taken early and then we stick with the decision, and IETF = WGs and chairs will be much better served with an actual IESG statement = about this. However, I do have an opinion about not artificially slowing = down protocol work, and I believe that protocol (i.e., the 5 S-BFD = documents on base, ip, ospf, isis, l2tpext, and pals) work is the = high-order bit in this set. In any case, I have one quick question: WG, Jeff, Reshad, Alvaro, when = does this 'another chance' expire? By Buenos Aires? > Last week I met with one of the authors of > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case; he assured me that he will be = working on > the document in short order. As you mentioned above, there is little > value in publishing the use cases *after* the solution. What=E2=80=99 the value for bfd-seamless-base for waiting? Does it get = better with age? >=20 > The way forward is simple: I'll wait for = draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case > before progressing all 3 base documents together. If the WG changes = its > mind (about publishing draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case) then we will = have > other options. See above =E2=80=94 wait indefinitely? >=20 >> Net-net: I=C2=B9d recommend moving -base (and dependents) forward. >=20 > I want to point out that there are 5 authors *and* 5 contributors = listed > in draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case (including 4 of the 5 authors of > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base). I would hope that we could find more = than > one person willing and able to complete the work -- and not depend on = just > one. >=20 > Thanks! Thank you! >=20 > Alvaro. =E2=80=94 Carlos. [=CE=A8] https://youtu.be/ZCQ08Q-Nnn4?t=3D390 >=20 >=20 > [A] > = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/kin3Me4WrKbe9WljhkSfkKvsefA > [B] https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-bfd >=20 --Apple-Mail=_E649DC7C-9D90-49F2-98BA-57EEE98F9577 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 =C3=81lvaro,

Thanks for the response! =E2=80=94 please see = inline.

On Mar 18, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Alvaro Retana = (aretana) <aretana@cisco.com> wrote:

On = 3/18/16, 9:25 AM, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
wrote:

Carlos:

Hi!

BFD = Group, chairs, =C3=81lvaro,

I'm = replying because the WG already asked for publication of the base
S-BFD documents (including the use-cases).

...
The = bfd-seamless-use-case document was last submitted in July 2015. I can
appreciate the fact that publishing use-cases after the = protocol is
potentially of little value =E2=80=B9 there is = a value in that those use-cases
can guide extensions to = the protocol. But it also concerns me that there
seems to = be very little value for the base document to wait on publishing
the use-cases first, since the -base protocol is done and the = base
document was updated to be independent from use = cases. The use case
document is only referenced by the = -base document, and that pointer is
Informative [3].

What=C2=B9s the plan on pushing forward = bfd-seamless-base (and untangling the
other 5)? Is there = something for the WG or editors to do (I assume not
since = -base has no dependencies and all AD Evaluation comments have been
addressed)?

I had = asked the WG to consider not publishing
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case [A], but after a lengthy = exchange with
the authors and a discussion at IETF 94, the = WG decided to "give another
chance to the authors" [B].


A video [=CE=A8] is worth a lot more than a = thousand meeting minutes [B]. I must say that [=CE=A8] conveys the = sentiment with much more richness!

[B]= that you cite says:

"[Jeff]
S-BFD use case = document publication status - what is the feeling of WG? = Taking
sense of the room. Do you = think we should publish this? Not to publish this?
Two people have opinion on this, one way or the = other. Sense of WG is that this
is = not critical work, will give another chance to the = authors.=E2=80=9D

Basically:
  • =E2=80=9CTwo people have = opinion on this=E2=80=9D
  • =E2=80=9Cthis is not critical work=E2=80=9D
  • "will give = another chance to the authors=E2=80=9D
That does not sounds terribly convincing. Don=E2=80=99t = get me wrong =E2=80=94 I personally have no strong opinion about what to = do with use-case; in fact, I find it terribly disappointing and even = demoralizing that folks invest their volunteer time to get to = Finish_Line_minus_5_minutes and be told =E2=80=98the race got = cancelled=E2=80=99. I believe those decisions are taken early and then = we stick with the decision, and IETF WGs and chairs will be much better = served with an actual IESG statement about this. However, I do have an = opinion about not artificially slowing down protocol work, and I believe = that protocol (i.e., the 5 S-BFD documents on base, ip, ospf, isis, = l2tpext, and pals) work is the high-order bit in this set.

In any case, I have one quick question: WG, Jeff, = Reshad, Alvaro, when does this 'another chance' expire? By Buenos = Aires?


Last week I met with one of the authors of
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case; he assured me that he will = be working on
the document in short order.  As you = mentioned above, there is little
value in publishing the = use cases *after* the solution.

What=E2= =80=99 the value for bfd-seamless-base for waiting? Does it get better = with age?


The way forward is simple: = I'll wait for draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case
before = progressing all 3 base documents together.  If the WG changes = its
mind (about publishing = draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case) then we will have
other = options.  

See above =E2=80=94 wait indefinitely?


Net-net: = I=C2=B9d recommend moving -base (and dependents) forward.

I want to point out that there = are 5 authors *and* 5 contributors listed
in = draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case (including 4 of the 5 authors of
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base).  I would hope that we = could find more than
one person willing and able to = complete the work -- and not depend on just
one.

Thanks!

Thank = you!


Alvaro.

=E2=80=94 = Carlos.





[A]
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/kin3Me4WrKbe9Wljh= kSfkKvsefA
[B] = https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-bfd



= --Apple-Mail=_E649DC7C-9D90-49F2-98BA-57EEE98F9577-- --Apple-Mail=_BBD177DD-928C-4733-A334-BEDF66AEB8E5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJW7I5uAAoJEIXgpQGOZny9HqYP/1GZOCOzQ6VDHwvl9VFeA81O CwnjH7fGkCWFS/S3P7CC53kNGJSwCs1vRczCY5dxm2M+Kzq+zRVff4TaF6FWR2F5 uhj9dxCrjcyClah6f1zChqYIRXIIIr6jHGgruXLmr/x4+FEBcZb2V+Q+j80qX3pt p+9zRF89sS8IBMzgUAVyD4GFT/IelhNwXnFztNGrafAVgNTteFw1lgUkYnGVedhG RDmBut0rXT+grCRNLGZwqRNbd4neIgTG6XAiL4c8Y3tVHeD6goEU0vwWwUtTXcX5 HYyU345YHtU7dwfLKcWw59yHBWgvjUN1lY1yYvpcZYcPTCmx/l6uhmBiiFdS2Edc e74a1nnLLROVIFGwWXob9vV5nOUrosSkQCwx7oQKduH3rmOnMYemfddxxZnNVuH6 Mz2YYqGLk/wS3sGdzLqK26vgfDhpnxs6WHXcrOjWtgHCOeLe3ssvr/OyUPl3sOKi DwLVwRnLx9STyDGj+oYZW7wixlwbSz1F7YGtDksGd9xY5s2vOuplCPF/BaejLv1f 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1538B12D6DF for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost.sniff.de [127.0.0.1]) by door.sniff.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5855A2AA0F; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 00:28:06 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:28:03 -0700 From: Marc Binderberger To: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) , Alvaro Retana (aretana) Message-ID: <20160318172803266937.e3d8e398@sniff.de> In-Reply-To: <52E423A1-74DB-4A3F-B7E9-2C1130EF9AA3@cisco.com> References: <9DFFE299-F3FF-4F18-98E7-3FF296A59600@cisco.com> <52E423A1-74DB-4A3F-B7E9-2C1130EF9AA3@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Advancing S-BFD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Mailer: GyazMail version 1.5.17 Archived-At: Cc: "" X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 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<52E423A1-74DB-4A3F-B7E9-2C1130EF9AA3@cisco.com> References: <9DFFE299-F3FF-4F18-98E7-3FF296A59600@cisco.com> <52E423A1-74DB-4A3F-B7E9-2C1130EF9AA3@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:09:12 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Advancing S-BFD From: Sam Aldrin To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d18caf2fa40052e5c8296 Archived-At: Cc: "" X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 01:09:16 -0000 --001a113d18caf2fa40052e5c8296 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carlos, I do owe a new version with comments addressed, irrespective of whether it becomes RFC or not. Few top level points though. 1. If you are making decisions based on how many are interested, BFD WG will disappoint you, pretty much every draft. Mailing list is the reflection of it. 2. Till there is a parking place for documents like use cases, problem statements, Frameworks, it is moot point to say that, there is no use. Fact of the matter, IETF takes too long that protocols becomes obsolete before they become RFC and no one know what those protocols are trying to solve (lack of use case?). :D Having said that, will try to get a version soon and let WG deal with it however it likes. Unfortunately IETF is not fulltime job and co-authors and contributors have gone incognito. On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > =C3=81lvaro, > > Thanks for the response! =E2=80=94 please see inline. > > On Mar 18, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) > wrote: > > On 3/18/16, 9:25 AM, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" > wrote: > > Carlos: > > Hi! > > BFD Group, chairs, =C3=81lvaro, > > > I'm replying because the WG already asked for publication of the base > S-BFD documents (including the use-cases). > > ... > > The bfd-seamless-use-case document was last submitted in July 2015. I can > appreciate the fact that publishing use-cases after the protocol is > potentially of little value =E2=80=B9 there is a value in that those use-= cases > can guide extensions to the protocol. But it also concerns me that there > seems to be very little value for the base document to wait on publishing > the use-cases first, since the -base protocol is done and the base > document was updated to be independent from use cases. The use case > document is only referenced by the -base document, and that pointer is > Informative [3]. > > What=C2=B9s the plan on pushing forward bfd-seamless-base (and untangling= the > other 5)? Is there something for the WG or editors to do (I assume not > since -base has no dependencies and all AD Evaluation comments have been > addressed)? > > > I had asked the WG to consider not publishing > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case [A], but after a lengthy exchange with > the authors and a discussion at IETF 94, the WG decided to "give another > chance to the authors" [B]. > > > A video [=CE=A8] is worth a lot more than a thousand meeting minutes [B].= I > must say that [=CE=A8] conveys the sentiment with much more richness! > > [B] that you cite says: > > *"[Jeff]* > *S-BFD use case document publication status - what is the feeling of WG? > Taking* > *sense of the room. Do you think we should publish this? Not to publish > this?* > *Two people have opinion on this, one way or the other. Sense of WG is > that this* > *is not critical work, will give another chance to the authors.=E2=80=9D* > > *Basically:* > > - =E2=80=9C*Two* people have opinion on this=E2=80=9D > - =E2=80=9Cthis is *not critical work*=E2=80=9D > - "will give *another chance* to the authors=E2=80=9D > > That does not sounds terribly convincing. Don=E2=80=99t get me wrong =E2= =80=94 I > personally have no strong opinion about what to do with use-case; in fact= , > I find it terribly disappointing and even demoralizing that folks invest > their volunteer time to get to Finish_Line_minus_5_minutes and be told = =E2=80=98the > race got cancelled=E2=80=99. I believe those decisions are taken early an= d then we > stick with the decision, and IETF WGs and chairs will be much better serv= ed > with an actual IESG statement about this. However, I do have an opinion > about not artificially slowing down protocol work, and I believe that > protocol (i.e., the 5 S-BFD documents on base, ip, ospf, isis, l2tpext, a= nd > pals) work is the high-order bit in this set. > %sam - If 'S' in S-BFD meant SDN, it would have been different story :D. IMO, if usecase or requirements do not have interest, why would protocols are important and have interest? Alternately, question to be asked is, why is WG not interested. Document or SBFD itself? > > In any case, I have one quick question: WG, Jeff, Reshad, Alvaro, when > does this 'another chance' expire? By Buenos Aires? > > > Last week I met with one of the authors of > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case; he assured me that he will be working o= n > the document in short order. As you mentioned above, there is little > value in publishing the use cases *after* the solution. > > > What=E2=80=99 the value for bfd-seamless-base for waiting? Does it get be= tter with > age? > %sam - I take the ownership for cause of this delay. Let me revert back with updated version. > > > The way forward is simple: I'll wait for draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case > before progressing all 3 base documents together. If the WG changes its > mind (about publishing draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case) then we will hav= e > other options. > > > See above =E2=80=94 wait indefinitely? > %sam - Have you tried your hands at MIB documents? :D > > > Net-net: I=C2=B9d recommend moving -base (and dependents) forward. > > > I want to point out that there are 5 authors *and* 5 contributors listed > in draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case (including 4 of the 5 authors of > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base). I would hope that we could find more than > one person willing and able to complete the work -- and not depend on jus= t > one. > > Thanks! > > > Thank you! > > > Alvaro. > > > =E2=80=94 Carlos. > > [=CE=A8] https://youtu.be/ZCQ08Q-Nnn4?t=3D390 > > > > > [A] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/kin3Me4WrKbe9WljhkSfkKvsefA > [B] https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-bfd > > > > --001a113d18caf2fa40052e5c8296 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Carlos,=C2=A0

I do owe a new version= with comments addressed, irrespective of whether it becomes RFC or not.
Few top level points though.
1. If you are making decisio= ns based on how many are interested, BFD WG will disappoint you, pretty muc= h every draft. Mailing list is the reflection of it.
2. Till ther= e is a parking place for documents like use cases, problem statements, Fram= eworks, it is moot point to say that, there is no use.=C2=A0

=

Fact of the matter, IETF takes too long that prot= ocols becomes obsolete before they become RFC and no one know what those pr= otocols are trying to solve (lack of use case?). :D

Having said that, will try to get a version soon and let WG deal with it = however it likes.
Unfortunately IETF is not fulltime job and co-a= uthors and contributors have gone incognito.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Carlos Pi= gnataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
=C3=81lvaro,
=
Thanks for the response! =E2=80=94 please see inline.
<= div>
On Mar 1= 8, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) <aretana@cisco.com> wrote:

On 3/18/16, 9:25 AM, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com&= gt;
wrote:

Carlos:

Hi!

BF= D Group, chairs, =C3=81lvaro,

I'm replying because = the WG already asked for publication of the base
S-BFD documents (includ= ing the use-cases).

...
The bfd-seamles= s-use-case document was last submitted in July 2015. I can
appreciate th= e fact that publishing use-cases after the protocol is
potentially of li= ttle value =E2=80=B9 there is a value in that those use-cases
can guide = extensions to the protocol. But it also concerns me that there
seems to = be very little value for the base document to wait on publishing
the use= -cases first, since the -base protocol is done and the base
document was= updated to be independent from use cases. The use case
document is only= referenced by the -base document, and that pointer is
Informative [3].<= br>
What=C2=B9s the plan on pushing forward bfd-seamless-base (and untan= gling the
other 5)? Is there something for the WG or editors to do (I as= sume not
since -base has no dependencies and all AD Evaluation comments = have been
addressed)?

I had asked the WG to consider= not publishing
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case [A], but after a length= y exchange with
the authors and a discussion at IETF 94, the WG decided = to "give another
chance to the authors" [B].


A video [=CE=A8] is worth a = lot more than a thousand meeting minutes [B]. I must say that [=CE=A8] conv= eys the sentiment with much more richness!

[B] tha= t you cite says:

"[Jeff]
= S-BFD use case document publication status - what is the feeling of WG? Tak= ing
sense of the room. Do you think we should publish this= ? Not to publish this?
Two people have opinion on this, on= e way or the other. Sense of WG is that this
is not critic= al work, will give another chance to the authors.=E2=80=9D
Basically:
  • =E2=80=9CTwo people= have opinion on this=E2=80=9D
  • =E2=80=9Cthis=C2=A0is not critica= l work=E2=80=9D
  • "will give another chance to the au= thors=E2=80=9D
That does not sounds terribly convincing= . Don=E2=80=99t get me wrong =E2=80=94 I personally have no strong opinion = about what to do with use-case; in fact, I find it terribly disappointing a= nd even demoralizing that folks invest their volunteer time to get to Finis= h_Line_minus_5_minutes and be told =E2=80=98the race got cancelled=E2=80=99= . I believe those decisions are taken early and then we stick with the deci= sion, and IETF WGs and chairs will be much better served with an actual IES= G statement about this. However, I do have an opinion about not artificiall= y slowing down protocol work, and I believe that protocol (i.e., the 5 S-BF= D documents on base, ip, ospf, isis, l2tpext, and pals) work is the high-or= der bit in this set.
%sam - If = 9;S' in S-BFD meant SDN, it would have been different story :D. IMO, if= usecase or requirements do not have interest, why would protocols are impo= rtant and have interest? Alternately, question to be asked is, why is WG no= t interested. Document or SBFD itself?=C2=A0

In = any case, I have one quick question: WG, Jeff, Reshad, Alvaro, when does th= is 'another chance' expire? By Buenos Aires?
=


Last week= I met with one of the authors of
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case; he a= ssured me that he will be working on
the document in short order.=C2=A0 = As you mentioned above, there is little
value in publishing the use case= s *after* the solution.

<= div>What=E2=80=99 the value for bfd-seamless-base for waiting? Does it get = better with age?
%sam - I take the= ownership for cause of this delay. Let me revert back with updated version= .
<= div>


The w= ay forward is simple: I'll wait for draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-casebefore progressing all 3 base documents together.=C2=A0 If the WG changes = its
mind (about publishing draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case) then we wil= l have
other options. =C2=A0

=
See above =E2=80=94 wait indefinitely?
<= /blockquote>
%sam - Have you tried your hands at MIB documents? :D=C2= =A0
=C2=A0

=

Net-net: I=C2=B9d recommend moving = -base (and dependents) forward.

I want to point out tha= t there are 5 authors *and* 5 contributors listed
in draft-ietf-bfd-seam= less-use-case (including 4 of the 5 authors of
draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-b= ase).=C2=A0 I would hope that we could find more than
one person willing= and able to complete the work -- and not depend on just
one.

Tha= nks!

Thank you!


Alvaro.

=E2=80=94 Carlos.




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(Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00BB512D96F for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:29:54 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79216d00000767f-c5-56eca6434f7a Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usplmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B4.72.30335.346ACE65; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 02:07:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 18 Mar 2016 21:29:53 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Sam Aldrin , "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Subject: RE: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Topic: Advancing S-BFD Thread-Index: AQHRgRmehvsBSeN050WZO8rTfSpw3J9fuMCAgABjCwCAABz0AP//wo8w Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 01:29:52 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A10C8E@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <9DFFE299-F3FF-4F18-98E7-3FF296A59600@cisco.com> <52E423A1-74DB-4A3F-B7E9-2C1130EF9AA3@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5056912DBEB; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case-04.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.17.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160321213718.12223.94756.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 14:37:18 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:37:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection of the IETF. Title : Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) Use Case Authors : Sam Aldrin Manav Bhatia Satoru Matsushima Greg Mirsky Nagendra Kumar Filename : draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case-04.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2016-03-21 Abstract: This document provides various use cases for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) and various requirements such that extensions could be developed to allow for simplified detection of forwarding failures. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Mar 21 19:35:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B3612D63A for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 19:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.417 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.417 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aZ6hPzNuyJcH for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 19:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ADB012D11F for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 19:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3598F1E837; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:38:51 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" , "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Subject: Re: Advancing S-BFD Message-ID: <20160322023850.GI1389@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <52E423A1-74DB-4A3F-B7E9-2C1130EF9AA3@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Cc: "" X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 02:35:06 -0000 On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 08:31:08PM +0000, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > I had asked the WG to consider not publishing > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case [A], but after a lengthy exchange with > the authors and a discussion at IETF 94, the WG decided to "give another > chance to the authors" [B]. > > Last week I met with one of the authors of > draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case; he assured me that he will be working on > the document in short order. As you mentioned above, there is little > value in publishing the use cases *after* the solution. > > The way forward is simple: I'll wait for draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case > before progressing all 3 base documents together. If the WG changes its > mind (about publishing draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case) then we will have > other options. I have just reviewed the updated -04 for the use case document. It's my belief that the issues you had raised are covered in this update. There are a number of small grammatical and typo issues in the document, but none that should impact clarity upon the editing process. I would propose that we leave the cleanup of these to the RFC Editor who will do a much better job of it than the WG will in fewer passes. :-) I believe this document is ready to advance with the bundle. On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 11:25:34PM +0000, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: > That does not sounds terribly convincing. Don’t get me wrong — I > personally have no strong opinion about what to do with use-case; in fact, > I find it terribly disappointing and even demoralizing that folks invest > their volunteer time to get to Finish_Line_minus_5_minutes and be told > ‘the race got cancelled’. I believe those decisions are taken early and > then we stick with the decision, and IETF WGs and chairs will be much > better served with an actual IESG statement about this. However, I do have > an opinion about not artificially slowing down protocol work, and I > believe that protocol (i.e., the 5 S-BFD documents on base, ip, ospf, > isis, l2tpext, and pals) work is the high-order bit in this set. The fact that the sense of IETF has been shifting away from publishing use case documents is something that caught the contributors to the draft in mid-stream. It's for that reason the chairs and the Alvaro have been patient about advancing the bundle. (It doesn't hurt that we also hit a common IETF pattern that the required edits for the other documents didn't happen until near the cut-off. :-) While I think we'll be using this effort as an example of how *not* to motivate use case authors, let's push this to the finish line. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Mar 22 12:03:48 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7131512D887; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:42:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2TdR2H5rVqF1; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 656E112D7D8; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:42:14 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79fa6d0000057a9-55-56f191e394d6 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usplmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A9.60.22441.3E191F65; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:41:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:42:13 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "BIER (bier@ietf.org)" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: New documents published by Overlay OAM DT Thread-Topic: New documents published by Overlay OAM DT Thread-Index: AdGEaT578BdMGmKpSI6z+qZCjRGO1g== Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:42:11 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A217BD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A217BDeusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrFIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO6TiR/DDDa3s1t8eniJ2WLpjD1M Fp/e7WCxODdpGbvFz1Wf2C0+N3ayWLyeOJXN4mXnBjaLp/MlLdY3NzFbfP6zjdHiwpvfzBbP nj5itnjyYCu7A5/HlN8bWT0mNr9j99g56y67x5IlP5k8nk0/zOTxtLuZJYAtissmJTUnsyy1 SN8ugSvj8poNLAULbSrW3LBrYGw37WLk5JAQMJF4OOcxK4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBI4wSz1+t ZwFJCAksZ5R4+98AxGYTMJJ4sbGHHaRIRGAHo8TE/6uZQBxmgbksElufzQIbJQxUNfX1fLBu EQFziUnv7wPFOYBsPYmmTk2QMIuAqsSt39eYQGxeAV+Jc9vXsIHYjEBXfD+1BizOLCAucevJ fCaI6wQkluw5zwxhi0q8fPwP6moliUlLz7FC1OdLzL1wFmqmoMTJmU9YJjAKz0IyahaSsllI yiDiOhILdn9ig7C1JZYtfM0MY5858JgJWXwBI/sqRo7S4oKc3HQjw02MwBg+JsHmuINxb6/n IUYBDkYlHl6DrR/ChFgTy4orcw8xSnAwK4nwrur7GCbEm5JYWZValB9fVJqTWnyIUZqDRUmc 99vHy2FCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYOTqkGxoRzWuuNw2/5fT567O5tEYb/2Zudk061pv3cc6h4 zhXGadIbPdb9P/O4fN9UdeGPs+I5hfc9uOV4u6BoJVP+ZtWAOfL7GQw9wgRnSP32XtTnb3rt 7a+VUZvO6tS1yggo7Z/3XfBW0E7t50adrbLL+j3Wz9te4+Ch9/bP3k3LZqp+PDBJ861mw2ol luKMREMt5qLiRAC+Qu093QIAAA== Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:03:47 -0700 Cc: "Ignas Bagdonas \(ibagdona@gmail.com\)" , "Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\) \(cpignata@cisco.com\)" , "Erik Nordmark \(nordmark@sonic.net\)" , "dekumar@cisco.com" , "Petr Lapukhov \(petr@fb.com\)" , "Alia Atlas \(akatlas@gmail.com\)" , "David Mozes \(davidm@mellanox.com\)" X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:42:27 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A217BDeusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, the design team had published two documents: * Overlay OAM Requirements https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt= -rtgwg-ooam-requirement-00 * OAM for Overlay Networks: Gap Analysis https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-oam-gap-analysis-00 These documents and next steps for the design team would be discussed, as o= f this moment, at RTG WG meeting on Thursday, session I: 5) 11:05-11:35 - Initial progress report from Overlay OAM design team, Over= lay OAM design team, 30 min We greatly appreciate your reviews, questions, comments, and suggestions. L= ooking forward to see you at the meeting for lively and productive discussi= on. Regards, Greg --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A217BDeusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear All,

the design team had published two documents:

·         Overlay OAM Requirements https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-requirement-00=

·         OAM for Overlay Networks: Gap Analysis https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-oam-gap-analysis-00=

These documents and next steps for the design tea= m would be discussed, as of this moment, at RTG WG meeting on Thursday, ses= sion I:

5) 11:05-11:35 - Initial progress report from Ove= rlay OAM design team, Overlay OAM design team, 30 min

 

We greatly appreciate your reviews, questions, co= mments, and suggestions. Looking forward to see you at the meeting for live= ly and productive discussion.

 

        &= nbsp;       Regards,

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           Greg

 

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A217BDeusaamb103erics_-- From nobody Tue Mar 22 12:16:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82DC812D872; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" Subject: Last Call: (Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD)) to Proposed Standard X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.17.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20160322191653.4108.4062.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:16:53 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:16:53 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG (bfd) to consider the following document: - 'Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD)' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2016-04-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines a simplified mechanism to use Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) with large portions of negotiation aspects eliminated, thus providing benefits such as quick provisioning as well as improved control and flexibility to network nodes initiating the path monitoring. This document updates RFC5880. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2402/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2107/ From nobody Tue Mar 22 12:17:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF9912D7D6; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" Subject: Last Call: (Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD) for IPv4, IPv6 and MPLS) to Proposed Standard X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.17.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20160322191741.4034.48086.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:17:41 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-ip@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:17:41 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG (bfd) to consider the following document: - 'Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD) for IPv4, IPv6 and MPLS' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2016-04-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines procedures to use Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD) for IPv4, IPv6 and MPLS environments. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-ip/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-ip/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2106/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2595/ From nobody Tue Mar 22 12:26:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3EF212D809; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" Subject: Last Call: (Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) Use Case) to Informational RFC X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.17.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20160322192629.4108.51174.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:26:29 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case@ietf.org, bfd-chairs@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:26:29 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG (bfd) to consider the following document: - 'Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) Use Case' as Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2016-04-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document provides various use cases for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) and various requirements such that extensions could be developed to allow for simplified detection of forwarding failures. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Wed Mar 23 13:58:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B84E112D918; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:58:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LQN5VsnVmm1O; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usplmg20.ericsson.net (usplmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE92F12D906; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:58:25 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79216d00000767f-46-56f2fde65a19 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usplmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 42.4D.30335.6EDF2F65; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:34:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:58:24 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam@ietf.org" Subject: Mail regarding draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam Thread-Topic: Mail regarding draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam Thread-Index: AdGFMdNzgcsoRo6QQEe2zRRJHSKukw== Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:58:24 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A22E77@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A22E77eusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn+7zv5/CDO5PE7LYtPMnk8X3Ll2L jm3bmSw+/9nG6MDisWTJT6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujBlfNQr2K1Q8u3yDrYGxS6aLkZND QsBE4kDfXlYIW0ziwr31bF2MXBxCAkcYJZ7sPc8MkhASWM4o8eu/DojNJmAk8WJjDzuILSLg KfF021Z2kAZmgW5Gics79zGCJIQF9CVm9c1mgygykTi8eBuUrSexYvJ2JhCbRUBVovfDGbA4 r4CvxOLew2DLGIGu+H5qDVgNs4C4xK0n85kgrhOQWLIH4iAJAVGJl4//QV2tJDFp6TlWiPp8 iS03ZrJCzBSUODnzCcsERuFZSEbNQlI2C0kZRFxHYsHuT2wQtrbEsoWvmWHsMwceMyGLL2Bk X8XIUVpckJObbmSwiREYLcck2HR3MN6f7nmIUYCDUYmHt+DcxzAh1sSy4srcQ4wSHMxKIrzm vz6FCfGmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQWH2KU5mBREudd//ZymJBAemJJanZqakFqEUyWiYNTqoFxfcfh 8HncUo7C/SeUeTrXpvAKRVxQ9e67pXqz9O2qh4tEamr31lmslNNj9lz+rvCKQtKO0+uu/1OZ 5Zc7ofrnrghpkY+3zq96MqtPZ8EOjZfB96fN47olWLVkf2G3v7hSWteFuJvVN999UYpg9/fZ FPY9Qd6rNvaQcBbrprfnJ00MkJ1hVyavxFKckWioxVxUnAgABv5KhZICAAA= Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" , "lime@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:58:33 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A22E77eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Authors of LIME base model extension for BFD Support, I'd like to bring to your attention that the BFD WG has been working on and= already adopted Yang Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BF= D). It seems that your document would benefit from considering the data mod= el developed by BFD WG and aligning LIME adaptation for all variants of BFD= , e.g. single-hop, multi-hop, BFD over MPLS LSP, and micro-BFD. Please note= that BFD for multi-point networks and S-BFD are completing their work and = their data models likely to be added in due time. Regards, Greg --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A22E77eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Authors of LIME base model extension for BFD Su= pport,

I’d like to bring to your attention that the B= FD WG has been working on and already adopted Yang Data Model for Bidirecti= onal Forwarding Detection (BFD). It seems that your document would benefit = from considering the data model developed by BFD WG and aligning LIME adaptation for all variants of BFD, e.g. singl= e-hop, multi-hop, BFD over MPLS LSP, and micro-BFD. Please note that BFD fo= r multi-point networks and S-BFD are completing their work and their data m= odels likely to be added in due time.

 

        &nbs= p;       Regards,

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;          Greg=

 

 

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11221A22E77eusaamb103erics_--