From nobody Wed Sep 4 04:57:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE8D1200F8 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 04:57:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SB3y-JDzHD7q for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 04:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x235.google.com (mail-lj1-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 150D21200F6 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 04:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x235.google.com with SMTP id l20so4867121ljj.3 for ; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 04:57:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IKXpvDrPn4peTtQ9aeMkOSaToKjKIvky+PGDaT5OvWc=; b=Ulj3AaznqjwjJ50Pc72A22UmtToTIWHCXd/kRCno2GYL1cvQyMdp7PoF7I+iqQr+cr GjfX0XIJAUul0X2HqfnDoAOyTKuK4yQ0OhRjR9Jx0n5eCxL5vo8KWrd7pBA9XqStP2xx 9dVNbhe8ebnmY86dKTUDPNyS5tHnwlri5suheIEwUuhylsI3Rhz7knP35YNfrVp2xN9L 4hQeqT3Y+XPWVFYdobBp1tk4z/euSPuCQZPCOtR+qPhp0Gwhr3bR+QbPC5VqhU+et9pP zsRQgq1luIozwZ6Hfr5NY7fDy89eseKdlOR4k49F1rSHjgKK+5Der1uOVmjb3YDkrZAP +9lA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IKXpvDrPn4peTtQ9aeMkOSaToKjKIvky+PGDaT5OvWc=; b=sDOwXmER6mD4nH+60lgHbV91jvDrilLg59yWFSbBY8knuPgPIacUEkv9ANbBP3ZW5y L9CYSCS3gwJg32LJGXiB5EZ/gXU05SRF7DrcXR5zTnPCWNPUWMPjRmFCXL6tv9WABmPm LTFdZSAP9a4fyyGncPkb/T24KpVbM6tHPXc4phT8f8xlK5NM9RL3BZxs9MEJdPl61aHR OmagiC9AtkyH0f8L1FcxX32F8sXEq4BSk67ETsTH/bjk5JUnCfcDOVa0cESKau2wX4HP zQqTt8tA0fppMNGv9G6tqvOcZ25pZKFCKymx6arvIAz6BvyZJYSne93NyqB5AKDBwzNb lf0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWrOYv3/mR69gyihMJU4M7OrFzQX6gv9midUfN7AeRhd+eNaLMI IYHCeq0zcQh3E3L3SekXUPqEtP/XFVvL7dRj5gs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxwvaM1RwBa+s4uTtk/l+8rdpHlwQn3n0DwEJtNepbrAzRFoUIivDTyJy8ofsNx3YL5fay2nY4j34dkVYKKVhs= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:6101:: with SMTP id v1mr20885133ljb.42.1567598247188; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 04:57:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190218173351.GI28950@pfrc.org> <542FBF1D-4D61-4E45-8CD2-CE9EC8BF6A38@cisco.com> <20190219174109.GN28950@pfrc.org> <20190220044330.GA14326@pfrc.org> <20190225032316.GA28974@pfrc.org> <20190225172544.GA17563@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20190225172544.GA17563@pfrc.org> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 13:57:16 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: WG Adoption request for draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , Martin Vigoureux , rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ac9cd90591b8e88d" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2019 11:57:32 -0000 --000000000000ac9cd90591b8e88d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Jeff, Reshad, et al., after more discussions and analyzing our discussion I'm accepting your arguments regarding that the behavior of a system in the Demand mode already sufficiently covered in RFC 5880. What I'd like us to discuss is the note by Jeff: If you're also saying that the ingress is NOT receiving a Down state change from the egress as part of this and that the ingress moves to down just because the Diag changes, that at least is clear, and is worth further discussion. Much appreciate your consideration and advise on how to proceed further. Regards, Greg On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 6:26 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 09:10:16AM -0800, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > > please find my answers in-line tagged GIM4>>. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 7:24 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > > > Greg, > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 09:53:20AM -0800, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > > > Hi Jeff, > > > > I'm glad that you feel that our discussion is helpful. I want to > point > > > that > > > > the use of the Poll sequence to communicate to the remote BFD system > in > > > the > > > > Concatenated Paths section is to relay the failure detected in the > > > > downstream segment of the multi-segment OAM domain. Also, section > 6.8.17 > > > > does not specify how the upstream BFD system responds to the > situation: > > > > Note that if the BFD session subsequently fails, the diagnostic > code > > > will > > > > be overwritten with a code detailing the cause of the failure. > It is > > > > up to the interworking agent to perform the above procedure again, > > > > once the BFD session reaches Up state, if the propagation of the > > > > concatenated path failure is to resume. > > > > > > Correct. That is up to the upstream to determine its behavior. > > > > > > > And so far we were discussing RFC 5880 though the scope of the draft > is > > > on > > > > the use of Demand mode over MPLS LSP. > > > > > > MPLS does not magically change the behavior of demand mode specified > in the > > > core RFC. > > > > > GIM4>> The draft defines how the head-end LER reacts to receiving the BFD > > control message with Diag set to Control Detection Time Expired and the > > Poll flag set: > > Reception of such BFD control packet by the ingress > > LER indicates that the monitored LSP has a failure and sending BFD > > control packet with the Final flag set to acknowledge failure > > indication is likely to fail. Instead, the ingress LER transmits the > > BFD Control packet to the egress LER over the IP network with: > > > > o destination IP address MUST be set to the destination IP address > > of the LSP Ping Echo request message [RFC8029]; > > > > o destination UDP port set to 4784 [RFC5883]; > > > > o Final (F) flag in BFD control packet MUST be set; > > > > o Demand (D) flag in BFD control packet MUST be cleared. > > > > The ingress LER changes the state of the BFD session to Down and > > changes rate of BFD Control packets transmission to one packet per > > second. The ingress LER in Down mode changes to Asynchronous mode > > until the BFD session comes to Up state once again. Then the ingress > > LER switches to the Demand mode. > > > > > > > > And the draft does describe how the > > > > BFD system acts after it receives the control message with Diag > field set > > > > to Control Detection Time Expired, a.k.a. RDI, and the Poll flag > set. In > > > > that, I consider, the draft is complimentary to RFC 5884 whose scope > is > > > on > > > > the Asynchronous mode only. > > > > > > I continue to have problems understanding how the text in your draft is > > > intended to be different than 6.8.4 of RFC 5880. Simply saying "we're > > > allowed to use demand mode" can't be it? > > > > > GIM4>> Section 6.8.4 does not specify that if the BFD system is in Demand > > mode and the bfd.LocalDiag is set to 1 (Control Detection Time Expired) > the > > Poll sequence MAY, SHOULD or MUST be used to notify the remote BFD > system. > > I shall paste this one last time: > > : If Demand mode is active on either or both systems, a Poll Sequence > : MUST be initiated whenever the contents of the next BFD Control > : packet to be sent would be different than the contents of the > : previous packet, with the exception of the Poll (P) and Final (F) > : bits. This ensures that parameter changes are transmitted to the > : remote system and that the remote system acknowledges these changes. > > If you've changed diag, you've changed the contents. If you are running in > demand mode, you will send a poll. > > If you're also saying that the ingress is NOT receiving a Down state change > from the egress as part of this and that the ingress moves to down just > because the Diag changes, that at least is clear, and is worth further > discussion. > > > > It will help clear this conversation if you simply state your changes > in > > > behavior vs. 5880 and 5884. > > > > > GIM4>> I've never stated or hinted that the draft is to update RFC 5884. > > The scope of RFC 5884 is the use of BFD in the Asynchronous mode over > MPLS > > LSPs. As stated in section 6 RFC 5884: > > > > BFD demand mode is outside the scope of this specification. > > You seem to be confused about how this boilerplate text is used. > > If there are no changes to procedure, existing procedure applies - it is > simply not discussed in this document. > > If there is changes to procedure (what we are trying to determine), then > further discussion is warranted. > > > > A reminder that we don't vote. C.f. RFC 7282, section 6. > > > > > GIM4>> I'm confused to differentiate when you raise the objection as the > > individual contributor and evaluate them and the consensus as the WG > chair. > > Chairs are not prohibited from offering technical feedback. If you remain > confused on this issue, I suggest you discuss this with Martin at the > upcoming IETF. > > -- Jeff > --000000000000ac9cd90591b8e88d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Jeff, Reshad, et al.,
after more discussions and = analyzing our discussion I'm accepting your arguments regarding that th= e behavior of a system in the=C2=A0Demand= =C2=A0mode already sufficiently covered in RFC 5880. What I'd like us t= o discuss is the note by Jeff:
If you're also saying that the ingress is NOT receiving = a Down state change
from the egress as part of this and that the = ingress moves to down just
because the Diag changes, that at leas= t is clear, and is worth further
discussion.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Much appreciate your consideration and advi= se on how to proceed further.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 6:26 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 09:10:16AM -0800, Greg Mir= sky wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> please find my answers in-line tagged GIM4>>.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 7:24 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>
> > Greg,
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 09:53:20AM -0800, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> > > Hi Jeff,
> > > I'm glad that you feel that our discussion is helpful. I= want to point
> > that
> > > the use of the Poll sequence to communicate to the remote BF= D system in
> > the
> > > Concatenated Paths section is to relay the failure detected = in the
> > > downstream segment of the multi-segment OAM domain. Also, se= ction 6.8.17
> > > does not specify how the upstream BFD system responds to the= situation:
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Note that if the BFD session subsequently fails= , the diagnostic code
> > will
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be overwritten with a code detailing the cause = of the failure.=C2=A0 It is
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 up to the interworking agent to perform the abo= ve procedure again,
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 once the BFD session reaches Up state, if the p= ropagation of the
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 concatenated path failure is to resume.
> >
> > Correct.=C2=A0 That is up to the upstream to determine its behavi= or.
> >
> > > And so far we were discussing RFC 5880 though the scope of t= he draft is
> > on
> > > the use of Demand mode over MPLS LSP.
> >
> > MPLS does not magically change the behavior of demand mode specif= ied in the
> > core RFC.
> >
> GIM4>> The draft defines how the head-end LER reacts to receivin= g the BFD
> control message with Diag set to Control Detection Time Expired and th= e
> Poll flag set:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reception of such BFD control packet by the ingress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 LER indicates that the monitored LSP has a failure and se= nding BFD
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 control packet with the Final flag set to acknowledge fai= lure
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 indication is likely to fail.=C2=A0 Instead, the ingress = LER transmits the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Control packet to the egress LER over the IP network = with:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 destination IP address MUST be set to the destina= tion IP address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the LSP Ping Echo request message [RFC802= 9];
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 destination UDP port set to 4784 [RFC5883];
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Final (F) flag in BFD control packet MUST be set;=
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Demand (D) flag in BFD control packet MUST be cle= ared.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The ingress LER changes the state of the BFD session to D= own and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 changes rate of BFD Control packets transmission to one p= acket per
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 second.=C2=A0 The ingress LER in Down mode changes to Asy= nchronous mode
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 until the BFD session comes to Up state once again.=C2=A0= Then the ingress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 LER switches to the Demand mode.
>
>
> > > And the draft does describe how the
> > > BFD system acts after it receives the control message with D= iag field set
> > > to Control Detection Time Expired, a.k.a. RDI, and the Poll = flag set. In
> > > that, I consider, the draft is complimentary to RFC 5884 who= se scope is
> > on
> > > the Asynchronous mode only.
> >
> > I continue to have problems understanding how the text in your dr= aft is
> > intended to be different than 6.8.4 of RFC 5880.=C2=A0 Simply say= ing "we're
> > allowed to use demand mode" can't be it?
> >
> GIM4>> Section 6.8.4 does not specify that if the BFD system is = in Demand
> mode and the bfd.LocalDiag is set to 1 (Control Detection Time Expired= ) the
> Poll sequence MAY, SHOULD or MUST be used to notify the remote BFD sys= tem.

I shall paste this one last time:

:=C2=A0 =C2=A0If Demand mode is active on either or both systems, a Poll Se= quence
:=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST be initiated whenever the contents of the next BFD Contr= ol
:=C2=A0 =C2=A0packet to be sent would be different than the contents of the=
:=C2=A0 =C2=A0previous packet, with the exception of the Poll (P) and Final= (F)
:=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits.=C2=A0 This ensures that parameter changes are transmitt= ed to the
:=C2=A0 =C2=A0remote system and that the remote system acknowledges these c= hanges.

If you've changed diag, you've changed the contents.=C2=A0 If you a= re running in
demand mode, you will send a poll.

If you're also saying that the ingress is NOT receiving a Down state ch= ange
from the egress as part of this and that the ingress moves to down just
because the Diag changes, that at least is clear, and is worth further
discussion.

> > It will help clear this conversation if you simply state your cha= nges in
> > behavior vs. 5880 and 5884.
> >
> GIM4>> I've never stated or hinted that the draft is to upda= te RFC 5884.
> The scope of RFC 5884 is the use of BFD in the Asynchronous mode over = MPLS
> LSPs. As stated in section 6 RFC 5884:
>
> BFD demand mode is outside the scope of this specification.

You seem to be confused about how this boilerplate text is used.

If there are no changes to procedure, existing procedure applies - it is simply not discussed in this document.

If there is changes to procedure (what we are trying to determine), then further discussion is warranted.

> > A reminder that we don't vote.=C2=A0 C.f. RFC 7282, section 6= .
> >
> GIM4>> I'm confused to differentiate when you raise the obje= ction as the
> individual contributor and evaluate them and the consensus as the WG c= hair.

Chairs are not prohibited from offering technical feedback.=C2=A0 If you re= main
confused on this issue, I suggest you discuss this with Martin at the
upcoming IETF.

-- Jeff
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--_000_C44550ACF6E043519958CB9144C9F23Aciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Sep 10 10:01:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 179ED120074 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0-9ihS1julb6 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 511FE120058 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 77F271E2F3; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:04:31 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call on BFD Authentication Documents (expires September 13, 2019) Message-ID: <20190910170431.GB1662@pfrc.org> References: <20190216170740.GA31558@pfrc.org> <20190702183714.GB3974@pfrc.org> <20190827151718.GK24671@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190827151718.GK24671@pfrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 17:01:54 -0000 Working Group, This last call period is set to expire at the end of the week. Please respond whether you believe these documents SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be advanced for publication. -- Jeff On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 11:17:18AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Working Group, > > As we discussed in Montreal at IETF-105, the last hang up on progressing the > authentication documents (thread copied below) was concerns on the IPR > against them. > > The holder of the IPR believes their discloures are consistent with prior > IPR posted against the BFD suite of published RFCs.o > > We are thus proceeding with the Working Group Last Call for these documents. > You are encouraged to provide technical feedback for the contents of the > documents, which addresses providing stronger authentication on the BFD > protocol. > > Please indicate whether you believe these documents should be advanced to > the IESG for publication as RFCs. > > -- Jeff and Reshad > > > On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 02:37:15PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > Working Group, > > > > A followup on this item. > > > > Currently, the status is identical to that which was last posted. Mahesh > > did make contact with Ciena IPR holders regarding the state of the license. > > It is their belief that their disclosure is consistent with similar IPR > > filed against BFD. Citing two similar ones: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/516/ > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1419/ > > > > It also appears to be their belief that the current wording doesn't require > > that a license fee is due. However, this is private commentary. > > > > At this point, my recommendation to the working group is we decide if we'll > > proceed with the publication process. Let's use this time prior to IETF 105 > > to discuss any pending issues on these documents. > > > > -- Jeff > > > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 12:07:40PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > Working Group, > > > > > > On March 28, 2018, we started Working Group Last Call on the following document > > > bundle: > > > > > > draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers > > > draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication > > > draft-ietf-bfd-stability > > > > > > The same day, Mahesh Jethanandani acknowledged there was pending IPR > > > declarations against these drafts. An IPR declaration was finally posted on > > > November 1, 2018. In particular, it notes a patent. The licenseing is > > > RAND. > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3328/ > > > > > > In the time since the WGLC was requested, there were a number of technical > > > comments made on these drafts. It's my belief that all substantial > > > technical comments had been addressed in the last posted version of these > > > documents. Note that there was one lingering comment about Yang > > > considerations for the BFD module with regard to enabling this optimized > > > authentication mode which can be dealt with separably. > > > > > > The chairs did not carry out a further consensus call to ensure that there > > > are no further outstanding technical issues. > > > > > > On November 21, Greg Mirsky indicated an objection to progressing the > > > document due to late disclosure. > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/u8rvWwvDWRKI3jseGHecAB9WtDo > > > > > > Since we are a little over a month prior to the upcoming IETF 104, this > > > seems a good time to try to decide how the Working Group shall finish this > > > work. Since we are meeting in Prague, this may progress to microphone > > > conversation. > > > > > > For the moment, the chairs' perceived status of the documents are: > > > - No pending technical issues with the documents with one known issue. > > > - Concerns over late disclosure of IPR. > > > - No solid consensus from the Working Group that we're ready to proceed. > > > This part may be covered by a future consensus call, but let's hear list > > > discussion first. > > > > > > -- Jeff From nobody Tue Sep 10 10:49:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA3B12025D for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:49:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uF35nprBkt_6 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A80F1201B7 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2253B1E2F3; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:51:48 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: BFD Echo mode coverage in BFD for VXLAN Message-ID: <20190910175147.GG1662@pfrc.org> References: <3747ADED-2F3A-42B8-BD72-20218D167DEE@cisco.com> <2952AB5F-FBD5-4113-BA1B-CD22FC11B58F@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2952AB5F-FBD5-4113-BA1B-CD22FC11B58F@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 17:49:09 -0000 [trimming headers] Working Group, While we're suspecting everyone is finishing up holidays, please take until the end of this week to answer Reshad's question: Should we require BFD for vxlan to support Echo mode? -- Jeff On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:41:46PM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote: > Hi all, > > It is up to the WG to decide whether echo support is desired for BFD over VxLAN (any other BFD use-cases also). Since this hasn’t been brought up in the WG before, my take is that the WG isn’t interested in having echo for BFD over VxLAN. So if anybody feels that we need echo support, please speak up asap. Because it’s holiday season, let’s take 3 weeks instead of the usual 2, so please respond by September 5th. > > Regards, > Reshad (co-chair hat). > > From: Greg Mirsky > Date: Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 8:04 PM > To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" > Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "bfd-chairs@ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux > Subject: Re: BFD Echo mode coverage in BFD for VXLAN > Resent-From: > Resent-To: Jeffrey Haas , > Resent-Date: Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 8:04 PM > > Dear All, > I was pointed out that my previous e-mail asking for WG help to progress BFD over VXLAN document by sharing opinions regarding coverage of the BFD Echo mode may be overstepping the bounds of an Editor. I apologize, that was not my intention. I'm asking WG Chairs to help to arrive at the conclusion of this question in a reasonable time. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:06 PM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > Dear All, > I have not set the when this poll closes. I hope that two weeks would be sufficient time for the WG community to express their thoughts. > > Dear Carlos, > thank you for sharing your opinion on the scope of the document in regard to BFD Echo mode. You've expressed support for exploring the applicability of the BFD Echo mode. Would you support that effort by contributing some text, if WG decides that documenting the applicability of the Echo mode in BFD over VXLAN is useful? > > Regards, > Greg > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 6:18 PM Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) > wrote: > Dear Greg, > > The option of replacing the existing text for something more ambiguous and implicit does not seem like progress in my humble opinion. The spec ends up with the same capabilities, but the text is more obscure. I do not support that option. > > My recommendation for your consideration would be: > > 1. Explore if it is possible to run BFD Echo as a single-hop. > 2. If yes, add text supporting it. > 3. If no, add text explaining why not on technical grounds. > > A less desirable option would be if the WG does not care about BFD Echo, to explicitly keep it out of scope (not on technical grounds). > > Best, > > Carlos. > > > On Aug 5, 2019, at 6:16 PM, Greg Mirsky > wrote: > > Dear All, > in course of reviews of the draft, several times a question was asked about the rationale for excluding BFD Echo from the scope of this document: > > 7. Echo BFD > > Support for echo BFD is outside the scope of this document. > Much appreciate your consideration of the following options: > > * describe the applicability of BFD Echo in VXLAN environment in the document; > * remove Section 7 and clarify in the Introduction > NEW TEXT: > This specification describes procedures only for BFD Asynchronous mode. > > * make no changes at all. > Regards, > Greg > From nobody Tue Sep 10 13:14:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD2641208D6; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:14:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, 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DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_69F853E9DA314BEF9A3CFC0A7E885426ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Sep 10 13:18:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D7A120288 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:18:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p5QIhjG3jfth 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13:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.33.122.240] ([66.170.99.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h15sm4701440pgn.76.2019.09.10.13.18.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call on BFD Authentication Documents (expires September 13, 2019) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <20190910170431.GB1662@pfrc.org> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:18:05 -0700 Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <009427F9-81D1-46C0-B19A-7EEC53974300@gmail.com> References: <20190216170740.GA31558@pfrc.org> <20190702183714.GB3974@pfrc.org> <20190827151718.GK24671@pfrc.org> <20190910170431.GB1662@pfrc.org> To: Jeffrey Haas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 20:18:11 -0000 Hi Jeff, I would like to point out that there are three drafts that we are doing = LC on, whereas the IPR is only on the authentication draft. While I = would like to see all three drafts advance, I would hate to see IPR as = the reason why none of them advance. The reason for advocating the advancement of all the drafts is more than = the fact that I have worked on them. It is that they significantly = improve the authenticity and security of BFD session. For example, the = secure sequence number draft addresses the question of replay attacks on = monotonically increasing sequence numbers in the BFD packet. Similarly, = the stability draft allows for detection of lost frames in a BFD session = to measure its (un)stability and to detect the possibility of a failure. = Finally, the authentication mechanism has allowed for the number of = sessions supported with authentication to more than 10X. Thanks. > On Sep 10, 2019, at 10:04 AM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This last call period is set to expire at the end of the week. >=20 > Please respond whether you believe these documents SHOULD or SHOULD = NOT be > advanced for publication. >=20 > -- Jeff >=20 > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 11:17:18AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> Working Group, >>=20 >> As we discussed in Montreal at IETF-105, the last hang up on = progressing the >> authentication documents (thread copied below) was concerns on the = IPR >> against them. >>=20 >> The holder of the IPR believes their discloures are consistent with = prior >> IPR posted against the BFD suite of published RFCs.o >>=20 >> We are thus proceeding with the Working Group Last Call for these = documents. >> You are encouraged to provide technical feedback for the contents of = the >> documents, which addresses providing stronger authentication on the = BFD >> protocol. =20 >>=20 >> Please indicate whether you believe these documents should be = advanced to >> the IESG for publication as RFCs. >>=20 >> -- Jeff and Reshad >>=20 >>=20 >> On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 02:37:15PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >>> Working Group, >>>=20 >>> A followup on this item. >>>=20 >>> Currently, the status is identical to that which was last posted. = Mahesh >>> did make contact with Ciena IPR holders regarding the state of the = license. >>> It is their belief that their disclosure is consistent with similar = IPR >>> filed against BFD. Citing two similar ones: >>>=20 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/516/ >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1419/ >>>=20 >>> It also appears to be their belief that the current wording doesn't = require >>> that a license fee is due. However, this is private commentary. >>>=20 >>> At this point, my recommendation to the working group is we decide = if we'll >>> proceed with the publication process. Let's use this time prior to = IETF 105 >>> to discuss any pending issues on these documents. >>>=20 >>> -- Jeff >>>=20 >>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 12:07:40PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >>>> Working Group, >>>>=20 >>>> On March 28, 2018, we started Working Group Last Call on the = following document >>>> bundle: >>>>=20 >>>> draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers >>>> draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication >>>> draft-ietf-bfd-stability >>>>=20 >>>> The same day, Mahesh Jethanandani acknowledged there was pending = IPR >>>> declarations against these drafts. An IPR declaration was finally = posted on >>>> November 1, 2018. In particular, it notes a patent. The = licenseing is >>>> RAND. =20 >>>>=20 >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3328/ >>>>=20 >>>> In the time since the WGLC was requested, there were a number of = technical >>>> comments made on these drafts. It's my belief that all substantial >>>> technical comments had been addressed in the last posted version of = these >>>> documents. Note that there was one lingering comment about Yang >>>> considerations for the BFD module with regard to enabling this = optimized >>>> authentication mode which can be dealt with separably. >>>>=20 >>>> The chairs did not carry out a further consensus call to ensure = that there >>>> are no further outstanding technical issues. >>>>=20 >>>> On November 21, Greg Mirsky indicated an objection to progressing = the >>>> document due to late disclosure. >>>>=20 >>>> = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/u8rvWwvDWRKI3jseGHecAB9WtDo >>>>=20 >>>> Since we are a little over a month prior to the upcoming IETF 104, = this >>>> seems a good time to try to decide how the Working Group shall = finish this >>>> work. Since we are meeting in Prague, this may progress to = microphone >>>> conversation. >>>>=20 >>>> For the moment, the chairs' perceived status of the documents are: >>>> - No pending technical issues with the documents with one known = issue. >>>> - Concerns over late disclosure of IPR. >>>> - No solid consensus from the Working Group that we're ready to = proceed. >>>> This part may be covered by a future consensus call, but let's = hear list >>>> discussion first. >>>>=20 >>>> -- Jeff >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Sep 10 16:13:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2D42120019 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:13:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VM6t-JePuZKt for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 272AA120013 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id b136so41578490iof.3 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:13:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=31BXSX0Xx/WnU3xDp02bWbwpGDC784xevhKXCAMaGLY=; b=qTdpf7jmeKACsKICPOyxoHET6mNkgoOK+fZ8uTeEXFL+fjCLNKYc34MVBqJkJNcvJj PQw686BZqXsu1d3ypLnkytZqSkTxkJM1v5EFlf4bPJSHq25Q7u6G7Pcft4QtVxsrU17e BfDZ1zLO+gvnpafTHv7ZAycQGU5a02AI3Ys2whxyEyIbF+2B9XZD/yPOq+JbnmszSjKr o6ZdpD0ST4jCrPV3VnlLwiV8u8eZzBYLOShCWBAe3iN3GVsKGxUw2SeG0vaPiIOLB+rG MR8W3p/2NY5VToA7Xlrf+9StEmoJbOP/0tLIcLqctCFrl+3ULUkpWh5njUYxGT0A3p+6 99UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=31BXSX0Xx/WnU3xDp02bWbwpGDC784xevhKXCAMaGLY=; b=IOn7Amvz6qgA3WWe3STHy8WMM7K/OHz+zwPgKvRrcNiVEolyTgFSP/cEpBbml1WJvu VjcuzHE7c/d9JKv7wWtQzKFOv8XQoXJ2cSd1nAczxXwZTQjnVcfQBS+gG1hQdTTW1AF1 u6tu14zt50hQL3U2Q2KXLUC295WH+htVbFVbPszN2h5delK6pQVJ27EETZptUPs2Ma+u 4/2ZyuAu9E96wFqws9uql7TzzVExo0Oqacz956KYfPSFZn4qOC3aiSfwK+prnuw8/tLR gcVDnTbM02aRzdKYTAqMkZ8lLE8f6HZ1ep5LXy1P1HIpaWvGcDPhpyEon3eUEDP1a8VS yrHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWW546dKrppUdqVihvtz3OHZkCrfEfFzgNLMCwILi3kZY87wMjB O7giFTSaZRDKbMNO5/GGf2YtaNABeXEpCefU7owG0pFO X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzESibtY87qFpEqFROV8bSFlGA5xsb0o1ZdyJqkRJCxwddUSo3aaosqUmj7cmuwuheyiUDdg/8Hp46wxI9RDEQ= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:9203:: with SMTP id u3mr6157761iod.3.1568157196352; Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:13:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190216170740.GA31558@pfrc.org> <20190702183714.GB3974@pfrc.org> <20190827151718.GK24671@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20190827151718.GK24671@pfrc.org> From: Manav Bhatia Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:43:04 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call on BFD Authentication Documents (expires September 13, 2019) To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a4098f05923b0c6d" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 23:13:19 -0000 --000000000000a4098f05923b0c6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I support all 3 documents. On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:45 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Working Group, > > As we discussed in Montreal at IETF-105, the last hang up on progressing > the > authentication documents (thread copied below) was concerns on the IPR > against them. > > The holder of the IPR believes their discloures are consistent with prior > IPR posted against the BFD suite of published RFCs.o > > We are thus proceeding with the Working Group Last Call for these > documents. > You are encouraged to provide technical feedback for the contents of the > documents, which addresses providing stronger authentication on the BFD > protocol. > > Please indicate whether you believe these documents should be advanced to > the IESG for publication as RFCs. > > -- Jeff and Reshad > > > On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 02:37:15PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > Working Group, > > > > A followup on this item. > > > > Currently, the status is identical to that which was last posted. Mahesh > > did make contact with Ciena IPR holders regarding the state of the > license. > > It is their belief that their disclosure is consistent with similar IPR > > filed against BFD. Citing two similar ones: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/516/ > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1419/ > > > > It also appears to be their belief that the current wording doesn't > require > > that a license fee is due. However, this is private commentary. > > > > At this point, my recommendation to the working group is we decide if > we'll > > proceed with the publication process. Let's use this time prior to IETF > 105 > > to discuss any pending issues on these documents. > > > > -- Jeff > > > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 12:07:40PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > Working Group, > > > > > > On March 28, 2018, we started Working Group Last Call on the following > document > > > bundle: > > > > > > draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers > > > draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication > > > draft-ietf-bfd-stability > > > > > > The same day, Mahesh Jethanandani acknowledged there was pending IPR > > > declarations against these drafts. An IPR declaration was finally > posted on > > > November 1, 2018. In particular, it notes a patent. The licenseing is > > > RAND. > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3328/ > > > > > > In the time since the WGLC was requested, there were a number of > technical > > > comments made on these drafts. It's my belief that all substantial > > > technical comments had been addressed in the last posted version of > these > > > documents. Note that there was one lingering comment about Yang > > > considerations for the BFD module with regard to enabling this > optimized > > > authentication mode which can be dealt with separably. > > > > > > The chairs did not carry out a further consensus call to ensure that > there > > > are no further outstanding technical issues. > > > > > > On November 21, Greg Mirsky indicated an objection to progressing the > > > document due to late disclosure. > > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/u8rvWwvDWRKI3jseGHecAB9WtDo > > > > > > Since we are a little over a month prior to the upcoming IETF 104, this > > > seems a good time to try to decide how the Working Group shall finish > this > > > work. Since we are meeting in Prague, this may progress to microphone > > > conversation. > > > > > > For the moment, the chairs' perceived status of the documents are: > > > - No pending technical issues with the documents with one known issue. > > > - Concerns over late disclosure of IPR. > > > - No solid consensus from the Working Group that we're ready to > proceed. > > > This part may be covered by a future consensus call, but let's hear > list > > > discussion first. > > > > > > -- Jeff > > --000000000000a4098f05923b0c6d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I support all 3 documents.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:45 PM = Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> w= rote:
Working Gr= oup,

As we discussed in Montreal at IETF-105, the last hang up on progressing th= e
authentication documents (thread copied below) was concerns on the IPR
against them.

The holder of the IPR believes their discloures are consistent with prior IPR posted against the BFD suite of published RFCs.o

We are thus proceeding with the Working Group Last Call for these documents= .
You are encouraged to provide technical feedback for the contents of the documents, which addresses providing stronger authentication on the BFD
protocol.=C2=A0

Please indicate whether you believe these documents should be advanced to the IESG for publication as RFCs.

-- Jeff and Reshad


On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 02:37:15PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> A followup on this item.
>
> Currently, the status is identical to that which was last posted.=C2= =A0 Mahesh
> did make contact with Ciena IPR holders regarding the state of the lic= ense.
> It is their belief that their disclosure is consistent with similar IP= R
> filed against BFD.=C2=A0 Citing two similar ones:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/516/
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1419/
>
> It also appears to be their belief that the current wording doesn'= t require
> that a license fee is due.=C2=A0 However, this is private commentary.<= br> >
> At this point, my recommendation to the working group is we decide if = we'll
> proceed with the publication process.=C2=A0 Let's use this time pr= ior to IETF 105
> to discuss any pending issues on these documents.
>
> -- Jeff
>
> On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 12:07:40PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
> > Working Group,
> >
> > On March 28, 2018, we started Working Group Last Call on the foll= owing document
> > bundle:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-bfd-stability
> >
> > The same day, Mahesh Jethanandani acknowledged there was pending = IPR
> > declarations against these drafts.=C2=A0 An IPR declaration was f= inally posted on
> > November 1, 2018.=C2=A0 In particular, it notes a patent.=C2=A0 T= he licenseing is
> > RAND.=C2=A0
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3328/
> >
> > In the time since the WGLC was requested, there were a number of = technical
> > comments made on these drafts.=C2=A0 It's my belief that all = substantial
> > technical comments had been addressed in the last posted version = of these
> > documents.=C2=A0 Note that there was one lingering comment about = Yang
> > considerations for the BFD module with regard to enabling this op= timized
> > authentication mode which can be dealt with separably.
> >
> > The chairs did not carry out a further consensus call to ensure t= hat there
> > are no further outstanding technical issues.
> >
> > On November 21, Greg Mirsky indicated an objection to progressing= the
> > document due to late disclosure.
> >
> > https://mailarchi= ve.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/u8rvWwvDWRKI3jseGHecAB9WtDo
> >
> > Since we are a little over a month prior to the upcoming IETF 104= , this
> > seems a good time to try to decide how the Working Group shall fi= nish this
> > work.=C2=A0 Since we are meeting in Prague, this may progress to = microphone
> > conversation.
> >
> > For the moment, the chairs' perceived status of the documents= are:
> > - No pending technical issues with the documents with one known i= ssue.
> > - Concerns over late disclosure of IPR.
> > - No solid consensus from the Working Group that we're ready = to proceed.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0This part may be covered by a future consensus call, = but let's hear list
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion first.
> >
> > -- Jeff

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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c3uY8kgzjqbu for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 07:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0119712009C for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 07:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 847491E2F3; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 10:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 10:53:45 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: xiao.min2@zte.com.cn Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: BFD Echo mode coverage in BFD for VXLAN Message-ID: <20190911145345.GC23252@pfrc.org> References: <20190910175147.GG1662@pfrc.org> <201909111201112154271@zte.com.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201909111201112154271@zte.com.cn> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 14:51:05 -0000 Xiam Min, On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 12:01:11PM +0800, xiao.min2@zte.com.cn wrote: > From my personal perspective, I don't think we should require BFD for > VxLAN to support Echo mode, because as I know, although the final standard > is still on the way, many vendors including my company have already > implemented BFD for VxLAN, and it seems that works fine, there is no > request from them on Echo mode, which in my view is a lightweight BFD tool > used to substitute a relatively more complex BFD implementation. Thanks for your commentary. Also, as an implementor, does your implementation's bootstrapping for BFD sessions follow the text that is in the current version of the internet-draft? There is some continuing debate holding up last call comments on this point. -- Jeff From nobody Thu Sep 12 10:10:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE6E12018D for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O71dmSx99tHL for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7255C120178 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id t16so29278706wra.6 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ay9eZdhM3oI1MTjYvgB847Q6Npi80Bi7e3klq4t9by4=; b=XoMZ9KLmtbf8pGYJCjQu8lAF5mGd9JQgUm9nJowRM1wE2+lwE6RhKqSVzoRyP0o5zK XTxEyRj/5aZF3XIOB/oV9Z6QSTwQ71BmOPnxFVLZelSTiCY6EuzHJh1hcMrZu9clQERP vEU7L37oPsPWYFXeziDli0JxjDSA/I8oI9nQBGRe7WkCZIuqDWKT4Qlt9ZeHDfr6R5vF neH2UwoDIQ/FvrTkzR9BZULAQJQPC19kL2Vsf4fkTev0IfQOFmBiGRXeIvasq/CcUQ+8 GKHqjpYM+2XwsnceC9GX+xQOm5/WE7ps4lNaDhMos5QuI3lVNiXObbD3BY2GpPvgEPbJ rCVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ay9eZdhM3oI1MTjYvgB847Q6Npi80Bi7e3klq4t9by4=; b=nC4HzYuHJBpZHzpCUlkOiY1Y/U9GboAkBMGyFnmXpwnvsm1sRQ9ih8Yfc9kXFym/vT oFO8UZwDXIDnZXenO6iWvYeKC5ca8tfkg3CYnUedk7DZFecgR6c85akuwtp+k4epcIlT M1w6pGYTFPwGuf+cxO1KjA7xOpu778yvD50WJLptl4yak9so3XZeyjvTgsmQzSrnScNy Gfab8/DPTWHQIbeZPMUz5hOWKs9eU4rNdDVXz0D511xiohdpkYkUgpGr0dBjCWWtdfkY ENh0YuuT0weqg65AKE3Cz1NTG1iL+8VBcPzdq6k3hQdZ/H6KmWgqXFy8X0P3w6W5a5iv KqLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUnXtegbgFvn3uGRhxu6SJx8aZcb7wTrc3JWfCP131xOHB7gDcj Ie3wZ3XXzJobQAfJuu31vYoCqpjaST3xe8okiZ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxBx2YbYJ08S3Jnbf6U06sOsFGxYaEgaZzb+QSSmQQkPk6HZTfdKmX5FneoGWBWBPo4WjyyBrDQT58ofzRTRCc= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6306:: with SMTP id i6mr31173505wru.323.1568308204800; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:10:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190216170740.GA31558@pfrc.org> <20190702183714.GB3974@pfrc.org> <20190827151718.GK24671@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Santosh P K Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 22:39:53 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call on BFD Authentication Documents (expires September 13, 2019) To: Ashesh Mishra Cc: Manav Bhatia , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000720fc005925e354e" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:10:10 -0000 --000000000000720fc005925e354e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I support all three documents. On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 9:22 AM Ashesh Mishra wrote: > As author, I support all three drafts. > > On Sep 10, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Manav Bhatia wrote: > > I support all 3 documents. > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:45 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >> Working Group, >> >> As we discussed in Montreal at IETF-105, the last hang up on progressing >> the >> authentication documents (thread copied below) was concerns on the IPR >> against them. >> >> The holder of the IPR believes their discloures are consistent with prior >> IPR posted against the BFD suite of published RFCs.o >> >> We are thus proceeding with the Working Group Last Call for these >> documents.. >> You are encouraged to provide technical feedback for the contents of the >> documents, which addresses providing stronger authentication on the BFD >> protocol. >> >> Please indicate whether you believe these documents should be advanced to >> the IESG for publication as RFCs. >> >> -- Jeff and Reshad >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 02:37:15PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> > Working Group, >> > >> > A followup on this item. >> > >> > Currently, the status is identical to that which was last posted. >> Mahesh >> > did make contact with Ciena IPR holders regarding the state of the >> license. >> > It is their belief that their disclosure is consistent with similar IPR >> > filed against BFD. Citing two similar ones: >> > >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/516/ >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1419/ >> > >> > It also appears to be their belief that the current wording doesn't >> require >> > that a license fee is due. However, this is private commentary. >> > >> > At this point, my recommendation to the working group is we decide if >> we'll >> > proceed with the publication process. Let's use this time prior to >> IETF 105 >> > to discuss any pending issues on these documents. >> > >> > -- Jeff >> > >> > On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 12:07:40PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> > > Working Group, >> > > >> > > On March 28, 2018, we started Working Group Last Call on the >> following document >> > > bundle: >> > > >> > > draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers >> > > draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication >> > > draft-ietf-bfd-stability >> > > >> > > The same day, Mahesh Jethanandani acknowledged there was pending IPR >> > > declarations against these drafts. An IPR declaration was finally >> posted on >> > > November 1, 2018. In particular, it notes a patent. The licenseing >> is >> > > RAND. >> > > >> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3328/ >> > > >> > > In the time since the WGLC was requested, there were a number of >> technical >> > > comments made on these drafts. It's my belief that all substantial >> > > technical comments had been addressed in the last posted version of >> these >> > > documents. Note that there was one lingering comment about Yang >> > > considerations for the BFD module with regard to enabling this >> optimized >> > > authentication mode which can be dealt with separably. >> > > >> > > The chairs did not carry out a further consensus call to ensure that >> there >> > > are no further outstanding technical issues. >> > > >> > > On November 21, Greg Mirsky indicated an objection to progressing the >> > > document due to late disclosure. >> > > >> > > >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/u8rvWwvDWRKI3jseGHecAB9WtDo >> > > >> > > Since we are a little over a month prior to the upcoming IETF 104, >> this >> > > seems a good time to try to decide how the Working Group shall finish >> this >> > > work. Since we are meeting in Prague, this may progress to microphone >> > > conversation. >> > > >> > > For the moment, the chairs' perceived status of the documents are: >> > > - No pending technical issues with the documents with one known issue. >> > > - Concerns over late disclosure of IPR. >> > > - No solid consensus from the Working Group that we're ready to >> proceed. >> > > This part may be covered by a future consensus call, but let's hear >> list >> > > discussion first. >> > > >> > > -- Jeff >> >> --000000000000720fc005925e354e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I support all three documents.=C2=A0

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019= at 9:22 AM Ashesh Mishra <= mishra.ashesh@outlook.com> wrote:
As author, I support all three drafts.=C2=A0

On Sep 10, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Manav Bhatia <manavbhatia@gmail.com> wrote:

I support all 3 documents.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:45 PM Jeffr= ey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.= org> wrote:
Working Group,

As we discussed in Montreal at IETF-105, the last hang up on progressing th= e
authentication documents (thread copied below) was concerns on the IPR
against them.

The holder of the IPR believes their discloures are consistent with prior IPR posted against the BFD suite of published RFCs.o

We are thus proceeding with the Working Group Last Call for these documents= ..
You are encouraged to provide technical feedback for the contents of the documents, which addresses providing stronger authentication on the BFD
protocol.=C2=A0

Please indicate whether you believe these documents should be advanced to the IESG for publication as RFCs.

-- Jeff and Reshad


On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 02:37:15PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
> Working Group,
>
> A followup on this item.
>
> Currently, the status is identical to that which was last posted.=C2= =A0 Mahesh
> did make contact with Ciena IPR holders regarding the state of the lic= ense.
> It is their belief that their disclosure is consistent with similar IP= R
> filed against BFD.=C2=A0 Citing two similar ones:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/516/
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1419/
>
> It also appears to be their belief that the current wording doesn'= t require
> that a license fee is due.=C2=A0 However, this is private commentary.<= br> >
> At this point, my recommendation to the working group is we decide if = we'll
> proceed with the publication process.=C2=A0 Let's use this time pr= ior to IETF 105
> to discuss any pending issues on these documents.
>
> -- Jeff
>
> On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 12:07:40PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
> > Working Group,
> >
> > On March 28, 2018, we started Working Group Last Call on the foll= owing document
> > bundle:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-bfd-secure-sequence-numbers
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-bfd-stability
> >
> > The same day, Mahesh Jethanandani acknowledged there was pending = IPR
> > declarations against these drafts.=C2=A0 An IPR declaration was f= inally posted on
> > November 1, 2018.=C2=A0 In particular, it notes a patent.=C2=A0 T= he licenseing is
> > RAND.=C2=A0
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3328/
> >
> > In the time since the WGLC was requested, there were a number of = technical
> > comments made on these drafts.=C2=A0 It's my belief that all = substantial
> > technical comments had been addressed in the last posted version = of these
> > documents.=C2=A0 Note that there was one lingering comment about = Yang
> > considerations for the BFD module with regard to enabling this op= timized
> > authentication mode which can be dealt with separably.
> >
> > The chairs did not carry out a further consensus call to ensure t= hat there
> > are no further outstanding technical issues.
> >
> > On November 21, Greg Mirsky indicated an objection to progressing= the
> > document due to late disclosure.
> >
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/u8rvWwvDWRKI3jseGHecAB9WtDo
> >
> > Since we are a little over a month prior to the upcoming IETF 104= , this
> > seems a good time to try to decide how the Working Group shall fi= nish this
> > work.=C2=A0 Since we are meeting in Prague, this may progress to = microphone
> > conversation.
> >
> > For the moment, the chairs' perceived status of the documents= are:
> > - No pending technical issues with the documents with one known i= ssue.
> > - Concerns over late disclosure of IPR.
> > - No solid consensus from the Working Group that we're ready = to proceed.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0This part may be covered by a future consensus call, = but let's hear list
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion first.
> >
> > -- Jeff

--000000000000720fc005925e354e-- From nobody Thu Sep 12 10:12:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E555F12018D; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:11:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vttfhFVSajDZ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD8FB120178; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id g7so29362644wrx.2; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:11:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DM8ABggOAuWiUosGLZojbkQIsSjHLBxlVUexxkN2WbU=; b=SIptlPe5rR4XdN8J3gDsBpV6y3mBw7zo8yK9lKdR5P/Dpja1Vy1JJSXqx7Gsha7KHp RaaRVvth6Hx4nHmTqVNavJXecdoyer5Qez183Dq1KNtJtih7aiGV/7Uw3oDP9et3F4Js 50LFXCORL1jT2ci00AglkvbE7/3gLzCbPYpgr0o0Gox8yZdtYrnIVRmdn3Nsu9ewyjD0 kDRv9OwHCcVz9VLI98J4W1KdFKGy21gGo84krB1TY9q+fMeX1SU5kF6x9Q239ShaCENh XR4IDuyQUc4jDDBocUJ6S6iHPRS52woQfdbWHWjm7lrDUuauCv1KBIG9b6oMqaZWMf6u svRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DM8ABggOAuWiUosGLZojbkQIsSjHLBxlVUexxkN2WbU=; b=JS1a7cGryyBkxRy0A/u8DcVAZOC3d72MELMkz/vWMWzh0yf1Th8050Ug8FMsuhsOND GVMQuGr3ysR5FKuMepouIU4ipZWayBWWkvoM86ILhpQz53+YUMVhNq+jXHUqBIpJD517 nvrD3FKEqgEiE6FxsnX53Rjcpdbv6ZPszvkDUqvLnpk5j+QM9pRgtZRw/J+XSPb7RkCY 5d1Nnu7kfFC5byAE8OqTrEE9Adpwn/xtats3XeJ1ycBe1fpCiNeBbLo1Vdd6F+I3lJgs YzTxMO55gd7PsfDXp4Dgenbc8Xwbmu2yJV1qKbYNYfBhF5yG4gB4awEvApqIcOIgeW3P r1Ng== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWbpRRRzk+0rHWrZsXFBZ79pl28ENXd9x2boOD8C0s0jALNT5WM 1VFienloQGsHm6bsssr00KdjE5TMjW+HvHpx7rg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz+sfHSYJ1KxQjqpVYW9+hPsWQRnqD4oQjv+keG/VAn9OtXbiRu5YCmC7NvKuhZVj1dS5FrkvgKUgbfqwTqk/E= X-Received: by 2002:adf:dbc6:: with SMTP id e6mr2249912wrj.149.1568308261063; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:11:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7437a61e-133c-c53e-fd1d-c3a31e4e90a9@joelhalpern.com> <7500b927-4b05-0e65-0afc-4bf57770f15c@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Santosh P K Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 22:40:49 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP To: Greg Mirsky Cc: Dinesh Dutt , "Joel M. Halpern" , rtg-bfd WG , "T. Sridhar" , bfd-chairs@ietf.org, Martin Vigoureux , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cc922205925e38fd" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:12:17 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:11:14 -0000 --000000000000cc922205925e38fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Greg, Sorry for delay. I will come up with appropriate text for few of the points listed. Thanks Santosh P K On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 4:59 AM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Santosh, > thank you for your comments. Please find my notes in-lined and tagged > GIM>>. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:24 PM Santosh P K > wrote: > >> Greg, >> Thanks for updated version of document. Here are few comments on new >> draft. >> >> Section 4: >> Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC >> addresses. The MAC address MAY be configured, or it MAY be >> learned via a control plane protocol. The details of how the >> MAC address is obtained are outside the scope of this document. >> >> I think we may need to give background on why we are saying MAC address >> MUST not be one of tenant's MAC address. Like in this thread we have >> discussed one of the tenant could have borrowed the same VTEP mac address >> and we if we have to use BFD then we need to avoid that conflict to ensure >> BFD packets get observed in the VTEP itself. Should we add a section before >> 4 to set that context so that above text makes more sense in that context? >> > GIM>> Certainly. Please share the text you'd like to add. > >> >> >> IP header: >> Destination IP: IP address MUST NOT be of one of tenant's IP >> addresses. IP address MAY be selected from the range 127/8 for >> IPv4, for IPv6 - from the range 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. >> >> TTL: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD packet is not >> routed within the L3 underlay network. >> >> >> I think we have added some text to address Sridhar comments on why TTL >> MUST be 1 and dest IP address MUST be 127/8 range. I see that text is >> missing now. >> > GIM>> My apologies that I've missed to include the text from another > discussion thread. I believe the following would be complete: > TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD > packet is not routed within the Layer 3 underlay network. This > addresses the scenario when the inner IP destination address is > of VXLAN gateway and there is a router in underlay which > removes the VXLAN header, then it is possible to route the > packet as VXLAN gateway address is routable address. >> >> >> Section 5.1: >> For such packets, the BFD session MUST be identified >> using the following three-tuples of fields of the inner header: the >> source IP, the destination IP, and the source UDP port number present >> in the IP header carried by the payload of the packet in VXLAN >> encapsulation. If BFD packet is received with non-zero Your >> Discriminator, then BFD session MUST be demultiplexed only with Your >> Discriminator as the key. >> >> Just with 3 tuple we will not be able to demux packet. We need to >> consider VNI as well if we have multiple BFD session between same pair of >> VTEP. >> > GIM>> This is one of comments from Carlos we need to address. Your comment > have helped me to form the question: > > What is the goal running multiple BFD sessions between the pair of VTEPs? > > If the goal is to monitor per VNI, then the following text should describe > the demultiplexing of the initial BFD Control packet: > Demultiplexing of IP BFD packet has been defined in Section 3 of > [RFC5881]. Since multiple BFD sessions may be running between two > VTEPs, there needs to be a mechanism for demultiplexing received BFD > packets to the proper session. For demultiplexing packets with Your > Discriminator equal to 0, a BFD session MUST be identified using the > logical link over which the BFD Control packet is received. In the > case of VXLAN, the VNI number identifies that logical link. If BFD > packet is received with non-zero Your Discriminator, then BFD session > MUST be demultiplexed only with Your Discriminator as the key. > Would there be need to run multiple BFD sessions with the same VNI number? > > >> >> Thanks >> Santosh P K >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 4:27 AM Greg Mirsky wrote: >> >>> Dinesh, thank you for your help, much appreciated. >>> >>> Hi Joel and Sridhar, >>> could you please check if the updated text on the inner Ethernet frame >>> addressed your concern. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 2:25 PM Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>> >>>> Looks god to me Greg. Thank you for your hard work in this, >>>> >>>> Dinesh >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:25 AM Greg Mirsky >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Dinesh, Joel, Sridhar, et al., >>>>> much appreciate the help you've given me sharing your expertise. I >>>>> hope that the updates you will find in the attached diff and the working >>>>> copy of the draft be closer to the acceptable solution for VTEP-VTEP BFD. >>>>> Please note, that I'll shortly start a new discussion thread to address one >>>>> of Carlos's questions on the ambiguity of the text on multiple concurrent >>>>> sessions between the same pair of VTEPs. >>>>> Please review the changes to Sections 4 and 6 and share your feedback, >>>>> suggestions, and questions. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 5:56 PM Greg Mirsky >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>> thank you for your expedient detailed response. >>>>>>> I believe that the ability to run BFD session up to a tenant >>>>>>> (VTEP-VTEP-tenant or tenant-tenant) was never in jeopardy from this >>>>>>> specification. >>>>>>> I'm trying to provide precise specification on what can be used ad >>>>>>> the destination MAC and IP addresses in the inner frame/packet as I believe >>>>>>> that likely will help to avoid interoperability issues. >>>>>>> I'm interested to learn some more about the "martian checking" >>>>>>> function. As you know, martian addresses have been used as destination IP >>>>>>> address in LSP Ping and BFD over MPLS LSP and PW. I haven't heard that any >>>>>>> silicon feature caused problems for operators using these tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting. I didn't know this aspect of use with MPLS ping. Did >>>>>> those packets ever go through a firewall though? In any case, maybe suggest >>>>>> the use of those addresses with a statement that this is how LSP does it, >>>>>> but that other MAC/IP pairs are possible as long as the conditions of the >>>>>> endpoint owning the MAC/IP was honored. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:59 PM Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That we agree on the problem definition is the first step forward. >>>>>>>> Your original document had my cases covered and so I was surprised by the >>>>>>>> track this thread took. It doesn't matter, we're back on track. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My recommendation is to not worry about specifying the precise >>>>>>>> MAC/IP address used in the inner header. The addresses chosen MUST ensure >>>>>>>> that the packet is trapped to the control plane of the VTEP and not escape >>>>>>>> to the tenant if the BFD is to the VTEP. Any solution MUST also not >>>>>>>> preclude the use of the BFD by tenant systems for that VNI. There are many >>>>>>>> ways an implementer can choose to implement this. For example, the inner >>>>>>>> MAC address is whatever the VTEP implementer would return if ARP'd for the >>>>>>>> IP address used in the inner header in the given VNI. The implementer can >>>>>>>> pick a fixed MAC address, one that they own etc. Multiple BFD sessions can >>>>>>>> be run for testing path connectivity on more than one VNIs. Limits should >>>>>>>> be in place to avoid overwhelming the receiver with BFD messages (you had >>>>>>>> words about this in your currently published draft). If the VNI is >>>>>>>> irrelevant in the test i.e. only the VXLAN pipe at the VTEP is being >>>>>>>> tested. the user can use any VNI active on the VTEP on which the VTEP owns >>>>>>>> an IP address. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm concerned about the use of 127/8 address only because of >>>>>>>> firewalls or implementations that drop packets with these addresses as >>>>>>>> either the source or destination. For example, on many merchant silicon, I >>>>>>>> don't believe you can turn off martian checking and drops *only* for >>>>>>>> VXLAN-encapsulated BFD packets. I don't know what the Linux kernel does >>>>>>>> today on such packets, for example (or Hyper-V). I'd like a solution that >>>>>>>> doesn't demand additional or new chip functionality or require additional >>>>>>>> middle-box hole punch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why do you feel you MUST to specify the MAC/IP address on the inner >>>>>>>> packet? What am I missing here? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:04 PM Greg Mirsky >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>> what do you see as the way forward? I agree, that the proposed >>>>>>>>> text doesn't work for multi-VNI concurrent monitoring because these VNIs >>>>>>>>> are tenant's VNIs. And in that case, we need to specify another mechanism >>>>>>>>> to trap the BFD Control packet at VTEP. It seems that VTEP's Ethernet >>>>>>>>> address must be used as the destination MAC address in the inner Ethernet >>>>>>>>> frame. The destination IP address may be either VTEP's address of martian >>>>>>>>> (I do prefer martian). Let me give it try: >>>>>>>>> NEW TEXT: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To monitor continuity of the path between two VTEPs, an operator >>>>>>>>> MUST select a VNI number to be used as Management VNI. Management VNI >>>>>>>>> number MUST NOT be one of the tenant's VNIs to prevent sending VXLAN >>>>>>>>> packets received on Management VNI to a tenant. VNI number 1 is RECOMMENDED >>>>>>>>> as the default for Management VNI. [Ed.note: What we set the Destination >>>>>>>>> MAC to? Can it be invalid MAC that MUST be ignored on receipt?] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If an implementation supports concurrent monitoring of multiple >>>>>>>>> VNIs, then the value of VNI number MAY be one of tenant's VNIs. The >>>>>>>>> destination MAC address in the inner Ethernet frame encapsulating BFD >>>>>>>>> Control packet MUST be MAC associated with the remote VTEP. >>>>>>>>> The destination IP address of the inner IP packet MUST be selected >>>>>>>>> from the range 127/8 for IPv4, and for IPv6 from the range >>>>>>>>> 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. The TTL value in the inner IP header MUST be set >>>>>>>>> to 1. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 9:07 AM Dinesh Dutt >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your clarifications. I agree with your sentiment on >>>>>>>>>> why you're running BFD over VXLAN between VTEPs. I wasn't arguing against >>>>>>>>>> it at all. All I was saying was pointing to the limitations of the use of >>>>>>>>>> management VNI. I spoke to some operators who're running EVPN and mentioned >>>>>>>>>> the discussion on this thread. They concur that they're using specific VNIs >>>>>>>>>> to test connectivity over that VNI between VTEPs to ensure misconfiguration >>>>>>>>>> doesn't lead to blackholes. My statements are based in real world operator >>>>>>>>>> experience. And I was providing language that ensured packets didn't leak >>>>>>>>>> across to tenants when they were destined to VTEPs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 10:34 AM Greg Mirsky < >>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>>>> many thanks for your detailed updates on how some >>>>>>>>>>> implementations process VXLAN header and the inner Ethernet frame. These >>>>>>>>>>> are very helpful in achieving the workable solution for the problem at hand. >>>>>>>>>>> You've noted that a path between VTEPs may be monitored in the >>>>>>>>>>> underlay network by merely establishing a BFD session. That is true, but by >>>>>>>>>>> using BFD with VXLAN encapsulation between the pair of VTEPs we are >>>>>>>>>>> extending the OAM domain by including, to some extent, VXLAN forwarding >>>>>>>>>>> engine. Abstract in RFC 5880 defines the goal and the domain in which BFD >>>>>>>>>>> protocol can detect a fault as: >>>>>>>>>>> This document describes a protocol intended to detect faults >>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>> bidirectional path between two forwarding engines, including >>>>>>>>>>> interfaces, data link(s), and to the extent possible the >>>>>>>>>>> forwarding >>>>>>>>>>> engines themselves, with potentially very low latency. >>>>>>>>>>> Thus, BFD in the underlay will exercise a part of IP forwarding >>>>>>>>>>> engine while BFD with VXLAN encapsulation, ran between the same pair of >>>>>>>>>>> VTEPs, extends the OAM domain. At the same time, defining BFD between >>>>>>>>>>> tenant systems in outside the goal of this specification. But VXLAN BFD >>>>>>>>>>> session between VTEPs may be useful in monitoring e2e path between tenants, >>>>>>>>>>> as described in the update to -07: >>>>>>>>>>> At the same time, a service layer BFD session may be used >>>>>>>>>>> between the >>>>>>>>>>> tenants of VTEPs IP1 and IP2 to provide end-to-end fault >>>>>>>>>>> management. >>>>>>>>>>> In such case, for VTEPs BFD control packets of that session >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> indistinguishable from data packets. If end-to-end defect >>>>>>>>>>> detection >>>>>>>>>>> is realized as the set of concatenated OAM domains, e.g., >>>>>>>>>>> VM1-1 - IP1 >>>>>>>>>>> -- IP2 - VM2-1, then the BFD session over VXLAN between VTEPs >>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD >>>>>>>>>>> follow the procedures described in Section 6.8.17 [RFC5880]. >>>>>>>>>>> I've attached the current working version of the draft. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:43 PM Dinesh Dutt >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I mean is "How do you infer that it excludes the case I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> talking about?". >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:41 PM Dinesh Dutt >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The abstract reads this: " >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This document describes the use of the Bidirectional Forwarding >>>>>>>>>>>>> Detection (BFD) protocol in point-to-point Virtual eXtensible Local >>>>>>>>>>>>> Area Network (VXLAN) tunnels forming up an overlay network." >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you infer what you said? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:38 PM Joel M. Halpern < >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going by what the draft says its purpose is. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Dinesh) want >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the draft to fulfill a different purpose, then either ask the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chairs to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> take this draft back to the WG, or write a separate draft. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As currently written, the behavior Greg proposed meets the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does so in a way that is consistent with VxLAN. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/2/2019 8:30 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > What is the stated purpose of this BFD session? The VTEP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reachability is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > determined by the underlay, I don't need VXLAN-encaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>> packet for that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Do we agree? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > If I want to test the VXLAN encap/decap functionality >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alone, picking any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > single VNI maybe fine. But is this all any network operator >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants? Why? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > In what situations has this been a problem? I suspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operators also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > want to verify path continuity over a specific VNI. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> say this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > not defined by the document, I disagree because the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > talks about controlling the number of BFD sessions between >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the VTEPs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > (see section 3). More importantly, this is a real problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that operators >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > like to verify. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:08 PM Joel M. Halpern < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > What is special about the management VNI is precisely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it is NOT a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > tenant VNI. The VxLAN administration does know how it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allocates VNI to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > tenants, and which VNI it has allocated. In contrast, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it does not know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > which IP addresses or MAC adddresses teh tenant is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using or may plan >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to use. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On 8/2/2019 6:41 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > The assumption of an IP address within any VNI is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspect that way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > What's special about a single VNI, the management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VNI? The VTEP IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > address does not belong in reality in any VNI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:17 PM Joel M. Halpern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Your response seems to miss two points: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > First, the problem you describe is not what the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> document says >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > solving. To the degree it discusses it at all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the document >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > says " >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > most cases, a single BFD session is sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the given >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > VTEP to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > monitor the reachability of a remote VTEP, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regardless of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > number of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > VNIs in common. " >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Second, you assume the existence of an IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> address for a VTEP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > within a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > VNI. As with the MAC address, the VTEP does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have an IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > within the VNI. Some implementations may have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> created such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > thing, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the general construct, as defined to date, does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not support such. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > In short, you are requiring a behavior that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> violates the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > architectural >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > structure of overlay / underlay separation, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > usage. And you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > are doing so to support a use case that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> working group has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > indicated in the document as important. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > On 8/2/2019 5:01 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Joel, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > You understood correctly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > The VNIs may not share fate due to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> misconfiguration. And I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > strongly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > suspect someone will want to use BFD for that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > checking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > path continuity as stated by the draft. As >>>>>>>>>>>>>> long as there's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > valid IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > (because it's BFD) owned by the VTEP in that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VNI, you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > use BFD in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > that VNI. Thats all that you need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictate. That IP address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > has a MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address and you can use that on the inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame. That is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > all normal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VXLAN processing. The outer IP is always that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the VTEP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 11:03 AM Joel M. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halpern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > If I am reading your various emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > (and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > may have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > missed something) you are trying to use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > because you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > want >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > to be able to send these BFD packets over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary VNI to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > monitor the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VNI. That is not a requirement >>>>>>>>>>>>>> identified in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > document. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > It is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > even a problem I understand, since all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the VNI between an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > ingress and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > egress VTEP share fate. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > On 8/2/2019 1:44 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks for verifying this. On Linux >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and hardware >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > routers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > that I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > aware >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > of (Cisco circa 2012 and Cumulus), the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > reused >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > across the VNIs on the VTEP. Did you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> check on a non-VMW >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > device? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > more for my own curiosity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > To address the general case, can we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not define a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > well-known (or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > reserve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > one) unicast MAC address for use with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VTEP? If the MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > address is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > configurable in BFD command, this can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be moot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 10:27 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I have cross checked point raised >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > usage. It is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > possible that tenant could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using physical MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > address and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > when a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > packet comes with valid VNI with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > used by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > tenant then packet will be sent to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tenant. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > This rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > out the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > fact that we could use physical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC address as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > MAC to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > ensure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > packets get terminated at VTEP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:00 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Joel, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks for your inputs. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> checked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > implementation within >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Vmware. Perhaps I should have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been more clear >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > about MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > space while checking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> internally. I will cross >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > check again for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the same and get back on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:54 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AM Joel M. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Halpern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Sorry to ask a stupid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question. Whose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > implementation? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > The reason I ask is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as far as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > can tell, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > since the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > tenant does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > have any control access to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the VTEP, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > reason for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the VTEP to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > have a MAC address in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenant >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > space. Yes, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > device has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > a physical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > MAC address. But the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenant could well be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > using that MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > address. Yes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > they would be violating >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Ethernet spec. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > But the whole >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > point of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > segregation is not to care >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > issues. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On the other hand, if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell me that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the VMWare >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > implementation has an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Ethernet address that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of the tenant >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > space, well, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > they made up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > this particular game. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On 7/31/2019 1:44 PM, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Santosh P K wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > I have checked with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > in data >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > path. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > When we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > receive a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > packet with valid VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then lookup >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > for MAC will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > happen and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > it is VTEP own >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > MAC then it will be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trapped to control >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > plane for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > processing. I think we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > can have following >>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > 1. Optional managment >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > 2. Mandatory inner MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> set to VTEP mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > 3. Inner IP TTL set to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 to avoid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > forwarding of packet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > via inner IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > address. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Thansk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9:20 AM Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Mirsky >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > thank you for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consideration >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > proposal and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > questions. What >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > would you see as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scope of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > testing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > connectivity for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > specific VNI? If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > tenant-to-tenant, then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VTEPs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > will treat these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > packets as regular >>>>>>>>>>>>>> user frames. More >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > likely, these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > could be Layer 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > OAM, e.g. CCM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> frames. The reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 127/8 for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > IPv4, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > IPv6 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > to safeguard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > from leaking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Ethernet frames >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with BFD Control >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > packet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > tenant. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > You've suggested >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using a MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > trap the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > control packet at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > VTEP. What that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> address could be? We >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > had proposed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > dedicated MAC and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VTEP's MAC and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > both >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > raised >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > concerns >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > among VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > experts. The idea >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > VNI may >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > be more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > acceptable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > based on its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarity to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > of using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Management VLAN. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2019 at 12:03 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Dutt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Hi Greg, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > As long as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inner MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > packet is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > trapped to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CPU, it should be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > fine for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > use as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > an inner MAC is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > it not? Stating >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > better than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > force a management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > VNI. What if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone wants >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to test >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > connectivity >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > on a specific >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > VNI? I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not pick a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > loopback IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > this since that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > address range >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is host/node local >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > only. Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > there a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > reason you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > not using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VTEP IP as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > inner IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2019 at 5:48 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Greg Mirsky >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dear All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > thank you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for your comments, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > suggestions on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > this issue, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > challenging >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > for this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > specification. In the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > course of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our discussions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > we've agreed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > abandon the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > request to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allocate the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > dedicated MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > to be used as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> destination MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Ethernet frame. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Also, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier using VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 0 was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > changed from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > mandatory to one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> options an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > implementation may >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > offer to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > an operator. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > The most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > discussion was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > whether >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VTEP's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > might be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> used as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > destination MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > in the inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Ethernet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame. As I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > recall it, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > comments >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > from VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > experts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> equally split >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > with one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > for it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > and one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > against. Hence >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to propose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > text to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > resolve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the issue. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > idea is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> let an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > operator select >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > VNI and use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > that VNI in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > encapsulation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > of BFD >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Control packets: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > NEW TEXT: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > An >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator MUST >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > select a VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > number to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > be used as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Management VNI. VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > packet for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Management VNI MUST NOT >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > be sent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a tenant. VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > number 1 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > RECOMMENDED as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > default >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Management VNI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > With that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> new text, what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > can be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > value of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the destination >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > MAC in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inner Ethernet? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > tend to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > that it can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and ignored by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > reciever VTEP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Also, if the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > trapping is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > number, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > destination IP address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inner IP packet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > can from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the range >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > 127/8 for IPv4, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > and for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IPv6 from the range >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > lastly, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> TTL to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > set to 1 (no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > change here). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Much >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > comments, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > questions, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Best >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --000000000000cc922205925e38fd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sorry for delay. I will come up= with appropriate text for few of the points listed.=C2=A0

Thanks
Santosh P K=C2=A0

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 4:= 59 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@= gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Santosh,
thank you for = your comments. Please find my notes in-lined and tagged GIM>>.
<= div>
Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:= 24 PM Santosh P K <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com> wrote:
Greg,
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Thanks for updated version of document. Here are few comments on new = draft.

Section 4:
Destination MAC: This MU= ST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 addresses.=C2=A0 The MAC addr= ess MAY be configured, or it MAY be
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 learned via a control plane p= rotocol.=C2=A0 The details of how the
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAC address is obtained are o= utside the scope of this document.

= I think we may need to give background on why we are saying MAC address MUS= T not be one of tenant's MAC address. Like in this thread we have discu= ssed one of the tenant could have borrowed the same VTEP mac address and we= if we have to use BFD then we need to avoid that conflict to ensure BFD pa= ckets get observed in the VTEP itself. Should we add a section before 4 to = set that context so that above text makes more sense in that context?
GIM>> Certainly. Please share the text you&#= 39;d like to add.=C2=A0


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0IP header:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Destination IP: IP address MUST NOT be of one of tenant's = IP
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 addresses.=C2=A0 IP address M= AY be selected from the range 127/8 for
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IPv4, for IPv6 - from the ran= ge 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104.

<= /div>
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TTL: MUST be set to 1 to ensure = that the BFD packet is not
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 routed within the L3 underlay= network.


I think we have added some text to address Sridhar comments on why TT= L MUST be 1 and dest IP address MUST be 127/8 range. I see that text is mis= sing now.
GIM>> My apologies that I'= ;ve missed to include the text from another discussion thread. I believe th= e following would be complete:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is not routed within the Layer 3 underlay ne= twork.=C2=A0 This
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses the scenar= io when the inner IP destination address is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0of VXLAN gateway and there is a router in underlay which
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0removes the VXLAN header, then it is possible to= route the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet as VXLAN =C2=A0gatew= ay address is routable address.

Section 5.1:
For such packets, the BFD session MUST be identified
=C2=A0=C2=A0 using the following three-tuples of fields of the i= nner header: the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 source IP, the destination IP, and the source UDP p= ort number present
=C2=A0=C2=A0 in the IP header carried by the payload of the pack= et in VXLAN
=C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation.=C2=A0 If BFD packet is received with= non-zero Your
Discriminator, then BFD session MUST be demultiplexed only wi= th Your
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Discriminator as the key.

= Just with 3 tuple we will not be able to demux packet. We need to consider = VNI as well if we have multiple BFD session between same pair of VTEP.
GIM>> This is one of comments from Carlos w= e need to address. Your comment have helped me to form the question:
<= /div>
=
What is the goal running multiple BFD sessi= ons between the pair of VTEPs?
If the goal is to mo= nitor per VNI, then the following text should describe the demultiplexing o= f the initial BFD Control packet:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Demultiplexing of IP BFD= packet has been defined in Section 3 of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5881].=C2=A0 S= ince multiple BFD sessions may be running between two
=C2=A0 =C2=A0VTEPs= , there needs to be a mechanism for demultiplexing received BFD
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0packets to the proper session.=C2=A0 For demultiplexing packets with = Your
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Discriminator equal to 0, a BFD session MUST be identi= fied using the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0logical link over which the BFD Control pack= et is received.=C2=A0 In the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0case of VXLAN, the VNI number = identifies that logical link.=C2=A0 If BFD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is receiv= ed with non-zero Your Discriminator, then BFD session
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST = be demultiplexed only with Your Discriminator as the key.
Would t= here be need to run multiple BFD sessions with the same VNI number?



Thanks
Santosh P K


On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 4:27 AM Greg Mirsky= <gregimirsky= @gmail.com> wrote:
Dinesh, thank you for your help, much appreciat= ed.

Hi Joel and Sridhar,
could you please chec= k if the updated text on the inner Ethernet frame addressed your concern.

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 2:25 PM Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com> wrote:
Looks g= od to me Greg. Thank you for your hard work in this,

Dinesh

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:25 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh, Joel, Sridhar, et al.,
much appreciate the he= lp you've=C2=A0given me sharing your expertise. I hope that the updates= you will find in the attached diff and the working copy of the draft be cl= oser to the acceptable solution for VTEP-VTEP BFD. Please note, that I'= ll shortly start a new discussion thread to address one of Carlos's que= stions on the ambiguity of the text on multiple concurrent sessions between= the same pair of VTEPs.
Please review the changes to Sections 4 = and 6 and share your feedback, suggestions, and questions.

Regards,
Greg

=
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Dinesh= Dutt <didutt@gmai= l.com> wrote:


On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 5:56 PM G= reg Mirsky <g= regimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh,
thank you for your expe= dient detailed response.
I believe that the ability to run BFD se= ssion up to a tenant (VTEP-VTEP-tenant or tenant-tenant) was never in jeopa= rdy from this specification.
I'm trying to provide precise sp= ecification on what can be used ad the destination MAC and IP addresses in = the inner frame/packet as I believe that likely will help to avoid interope= rability issues.
I'm interested to learn some more about the = "martian checking" function. As you know, martian addresses have = been used as destination IP address in LSP Ping and BFD over MPLS LSP and P= W. I haven't heard that any silicon feature caused problems for operato= rs using these tools.

Interesti= ng. I didn't know this aspect of use with MPLS ping. Did those packets = ever go through a firewall though? In any case, maybe suggest the use of th= ose addresses with a statement that this is how LSP does it, but that other= MAC/IP pairs are possible as long as the conditions of the endpoint owning= the MAC/IP was honored.

Dinesh

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:59 PM Dinesh Dutt = <didutt@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Hi Greg,

That we agree on the= problem definition is the first step forward. Your original document had m= y cases covered and so I was surprised by the track this thread took. It do= esn't matter, we're back on track.

My reco= mmendation is to not worry about specifying the precise MAC/IP address used= in the inner header. The addresses chosen MUST ensure that the packet is t= rapped to the control plane of the VTEP and not escape to the tenant if the= BFD is to the VTEP. Any solution MUST also not preclude the use of the BFD= by tenant systems for that VNI. There are many ways an implementer can cho= ose to implement this. For example, the inner MAC address is whatever the V= TEP implementer would return if ARP'd for the IP address used in the in= ner header in the given VNI. The implementer can pick a fixed MAC address, = one that they own etc. Multiple BFD sessions can be run for testing path co= nnectivity on more than one VNIs. Limits should be in place to avoid overwh= elming the receiver with BFD messages (you had words about this in your cur= rently published draft).=C2=A0 If the VNI is irrelevant in the test i.e. on= ly the VXLAN pipe at the VTEP is being tested. the user can use any VNI act= ive on the VTEP on which the VTEP owns an IP address.

<= div>I'm concerned about the use of 127/8 address only because of firewa= lls or implementations that drop packets with these addresses as either the= source or destination. For example, on many merchant silicon, I don't = believe you can turn off martian checking and drops *only* for VXLAN-encaps= ulated BFD packets. I don't know what the Linux kernel does today on su= ch packets, for example (or Hyper-V). I'd like a solution that doesn= 9;t demand additional or new chip functionality or require additional middl= e-box hole punch.


=
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:04 PM Greg M= irsky <gregim= irsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh,
what do you= see as the way forward? I agree, that the proposed text doesn't work f= or multi-VNI concurrent monitoring because these VNIs are tenant's VNIs= . And in that case, we need to specify another mechanism to trap the BFD Co= ntrol packet at VTEP. It seems that VTEP's Ethernet address must be use= d as the destination MAC address in the inner Ethernet frame. The destinati= on IP address may be either VTEP's address of martian (I do prefer mart= ian). Let me give it=C2=A0 try:
NEW TEXT:
To monitor continuity of the path between two VTEPs, an opera= tor MUST select a VNI number to be used as Management VNI. Management VNI n= umber MUST NOT be one of the tenant's VNIs to prevent sending VXLAN pac= kets received on Management VNI to a tenant. VNI number 1 is RECOMMENDED as= the default for Management VNI. [Ed.note: What we set the Destination MAC = to? Can it be invalid MAC that MUST be ignored on receipt?]
If an implementation supports concurrent m= onitoring of multiple VNIs, then the value of VNI number MAY be one of tena= nt's VNIs. The destination MAC address in the inner Ethernet frame enca= psulating BFD Control packet MUST be MAC associated with the remote VTEP.= =C2=A0
The destination IP address of the inner IP packet MUST be = selected from the range 127/8 for IPv4, and for IPv6 from the range 0:0:0:0= :0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. The TTL value in the inner IP header MUST be set to 1.<= /div>

Regards,
Greg=C2=A0

On Sun, Aug 4, = 2019 at 9:07 AM Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Greg,

Thanks for your clarifications. I agree with your sentiment on why= you're running BFD over VXLAN between VTEPs. I wasn't arguing agai= nst it at all. All I was saying was pointing to the limitations of the use = of management VNI. I spoke to some operators who're running EVPN and me= ntioned the discussion on this thread. They concur that they're using s= pecific VNIs to test connectivity over that VNI between VTEPs to ensure mis= configuration doesn't lead to blackholes. My statements are based in re= al world operator experience. And I was providing language that ensured pac= kets didn't leak across to tenants when they were destined to VTEPs.

Dinesh

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 10:34 AM Greg= Mirsky <greg= imirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh,
many thanks for your detai= led updates on how some implementations process VXLAN header and the inner = Ethernet frame. These are very helpful in achieving the workable solution f= or the problem at hand.
You've noted that a path between VTEP= s may be monitored in the underlay network by merely establishing a BFD ses= sion. That is true, but by using BFD with VXLAN encapsulation between the p= air of VTEPs we are extending the OAM domain by including, to some extent, = VXLAN forwarding engine. Abstract in RFC 5880 defines the goal and the doma= in in which BFD protocol can detect a fault as:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This= document describes a protocol intended to detect faults in the
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0bidirectional path between two forwarding engines, including
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0interfaces, data link(s), and to the extent possible the forwardi= ng
=C2=A0 =C2=A0engines themselves, with potentially very low latency.= =C2=A0
Thus, BFD in the underlay will exercise a part of IP f= orwarding engine while BFD with VXLAN encapsulation, ran between the same p= air of VTEPs, extends the OAM domain. At the same time, defining BFD betwee= n tenant systems in outside the goal of this specification. But VXLAN BFD s= ession between VTEPs may be useful in monitoring e2e path between tenants, = as described in the update to -07:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0At the same time,= a service layer BFD session may be used between the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant= s of VTEPs IP1 and IP2 to provide end-to-end fault management.
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0In such case, for VTEPs BFD control packets of that session are
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0indistinguishable from data packets.=C2=A0 If end-to-end defec= t detection
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is realized as the set of concatenated OAM doma= ins, e.g., VM1-1 - IP1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0-- IP2 - VM2-1, then the BFD session= over VXLAN between VTEPs SHOULD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0follow the procedures desc= ribed in Section 6.8.17 [RFC5880].
I've attached the curr= ent working version of the draft.

Regards,
Greg


On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:43 PM Dinesh Dutt &l= t;didutt@gmail.com> wrote:
What I mean is "How do you infer that it excludes t= he case I'm talking about?".

Dinesh<= br>

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:41 PM Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com> wrote:
The abs= tract reads this: "
This document describes the use of the Bid=
irectional Forwarding
   Detection (BFD) protocol in point-to-point Virtual eXtensible Local
   Area Network (VXLAN) tunnels forming up an overlay network."
How do you infer w=
hat you said?

Dinesh

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:38 PM Joel M. Halp= ern <jmh@joelha= lpern.com> wrote:
I am going by what the draft says its purpose is.=C2=A0 If you (= Dinesh) want
the draft to fulfill a different purpose, then either ask the chairs to take this draft back to the WG, or write a separate draft.
As currently written, the behavior Greg proposed meets the needs, and
does so in a way that is consistent with VxLAN.

Yours,
Joel

On 8/2/2019 8:30 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote:
> What is the stated purpose of this BFD session? The VTEP reachability = is
> determined by the underlay, I don't need VXLAN-encaped packet for = that.
> Do we agree?
>
> If I want to test the VXLAN encap/decap functionality alone, picking a= ny
> single VNI maybe fine. But is this all any network operator wants? Why= ?
> In what situations has this been a problem? I suspect operators also <= br> > want to verify path continuity over a specific VNI. If you say this is=
> not defined by the document, I disagree because the current version > talks about controlling the number of BFD sessions between the VTEPs <= br> > (see section 3). More importantly, this is a real problem that operato= rs
> like to verify.
>
> Dinesh
>
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:08 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
> <mailto:jm= h@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0What is special about the management VNI is precise= ly that it is NOT a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant VNI.=C2=A0 The VxLAN administration does kno= w how it allocates VNI to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenants, and which VNI it has allocated.=C2=A0 In c= ontrast, it does not know
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0which IP addresses or MAC adddresses teh tenant is = using or may plan
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to use.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 8/2/2019 6:41 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The assumption of an IP address within any VN= I is suspect that way.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > What's special about a single VNI, the ma= nagement VNI? The VTEP IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > address does not belong in reality in any VNI= .
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:17 PM Joel M. Halper= n
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>= wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Your response seems to mis= s two points:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0First, the problem you des= cribe is not what the document says
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0solving.=C2=A0 To the degr= ee it discusses it at all, the document
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0says "
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0most cases, a single BFD s= ession is sufficient for the given
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VTEP to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0monitor the reachability o= f a remote VTEP, regardless of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0number of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNIs in common. "
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Second, you assume the exi= stence of an IP address for a VTEP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0within a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI.=C2=A0 As with the MAC= address, the VTEP does not have an IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0within the VNI.=C2=A0 Some= implementations may have created such a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thing,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the general construct, as = defined to date, does not support such.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In short, you are requirin= g a behavior that violates the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0architectural
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0structure of overlay / und= erlay separation, and common
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0usage.=C2=A0 And you
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0are doing so to support a = use case that the working group has not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicated in the document = as important.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 8/2/2019 5:01 PM, Dines= h Dutt wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Joel,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > You understood corre= ctly.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The VNIs may not sha= re fate due to misconfiguration. And I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0strongly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > suspect someone will= want to use BFD for that because its
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0about
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0checking
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > path continuity as s= tated by the draft. As long as there's a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0valid IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > (because it's BF= D) owned by the VTEP in that VNI, you can
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0use BFD in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > that VNI. Thats all = that you need to dictate.=C2=A0 That IP address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0has a MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > address and you can = use that on the inner frame. That is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0all normal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VXLAN processing. Th= e outer IP is always that of the VTEP.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 = at 11:03 AM Joel M. Halpern
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com= >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com &= lt;mailto:jmh@joel= halpern.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>> w= rote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I= f I am reading your various emails correctly Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(and I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0may have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0m= issed something) you are trying to use the MAC address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0because you
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0w= ant
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= o be able to send these BFD packets over arbitrary VNI to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0monitor the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0V= NI.=C2=A0 That is not a requirement identified in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It is not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e= ven a problem I understand, since all the VNI between an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ingress and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e= gress VTEP share fate.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Y= ours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0J= oel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0O= n 8/2/2019 1:44 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > Thanks for verifying this. On Linux and hardware
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0routers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that I'm
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ware
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > of (Cisco circa 2012 and Cumulus), the physical MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= eused
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > across the VNIs on the VTEP. Did you check on a non-VMW
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0device?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0T= his is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > more for my own curiosity.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > To address the general case, can we not define a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0well-known (or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= eserve
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > one) unicast MAC address for use with VTEP? If the MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > configurable in BFD command, this can be moot.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 10:27 AM Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > <= santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>>&= gt; wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have cross checked point raised about MAC address=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0usage. It is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0possible that tenant could be using physical MAC >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0w= hen a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet comes with valid VNI with a MAC address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0being
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0u= sed by
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant then packet will be sent to that tenant.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This rules
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o= ut the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fact that we could use physical MAC address as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0inner
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e= nsure
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packets get terminated at VTEP itself.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:00 AM Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>>&= gt;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for your inputs.= I checked
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation within
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Vmware. Perhaps I should have been mo= re clear
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0about MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0space while checking internally. I wi= ll cross
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0check again for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the same and get back on this list. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:54 AM Joel= M.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Halpern
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailt= o:jmh@joelhalpern.= com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:jmh@joel= halpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailt= o:jmh@joelhalpern.= com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>>&g= t; wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sorry to ask a stupid q= uestion.=C2=A0 Whose
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The reason I ask is tha= t as far as I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0can tell,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant does not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have any control access= to the VTEP,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0there is no
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= eason for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the VTEP to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have a MAC address in t= he tenant
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0space.=C2=A0 Yes, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0d= evice has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a physical
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC address.=C2=A0 But = the tenant could well be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0using that MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address.=C2=A0 Yes,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0they would be violating= the Ethernet spec.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0But the whole
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0point of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0segregation is not to c= are about such
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0issues.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On the other hand, if y= ou tell me that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the VMWare
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation has an >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet address that i= s part of the tenant
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0space, well,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0they made up
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this particular game. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 7/31/2019 1:44 PM, S= antosh P K wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I have checked wi= th implementation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0path.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0W= hen we
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0receive a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > packet with valid= VNI then lookup
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for MAC will
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= appen and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it is VTEP own
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > MAC then it will = be trapped to control
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0plane for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0processing. I think we<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > can have followin= g options
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 1. Optional manag= ment VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 2. Mandatory inne= r MAC set to VTEP mac
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 3. Inner IP TTL s= et to 1 to avoid
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0forwarding of packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0via inner IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > address.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Thoughts?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Thansk
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Wed, Jul 31, 2= 019 at 9:20 AM Greg
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mirsky
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>&g= t;>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com<= /a>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Hi Dinesh,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0thank you for your consideration
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0p= roposal and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0questions. What
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0would you see as the scope of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0testing the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0connectivity for the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0specific VNI? If it is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant-to-tenant, then
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0V= TEPs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0will treat these
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0packets as regular user frames. More
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0likely, these
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0could be Layer 2
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0OAM, e.g. CCM frames. The reason
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to use
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0127/8 for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv4, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A00:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to safeguard
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0from leaking
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Ethernet frames with BFD Control
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= enant.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0You've suggested using a MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trap the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0control packet at
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0VTEP. What that address could be? We
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0had proposed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0using the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0dedicated MAC and VTEP's MAC and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0both
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0raised
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= oncerns
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0among VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0experts. The idea of using
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI may
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b= e more
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0acceptable
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0based on its similarity to the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0practice
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of using
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VLAN.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Regards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Greg
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:03 PM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dutt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<didutt@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com> <mailto:didutt@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com><= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:didutt@gmai= l.com <mailto:= didutt@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com><= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0<mailto:didutt@= gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>&= gt;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:didutt@gmai= l.com <mailto:= didutt@gmail.com>
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:didutt@gmai= l.com <mailto:= didutt@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Greg,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As long as the inner MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0such
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= hat the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trapped to the CPU, it should be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0u= se as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an inner MAC is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it not? Stating that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0better than
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trying to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0force a management
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI. What if someone wants
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to test
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= onnectivity
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0on a specific
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI? I would not pick a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0loopback IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this since that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address range is host/node local
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0only. Is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= here a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reason you're
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not using the VTEP IP as the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0inner IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress ?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 5:48 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg Mirsky
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.c= om
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dear All,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thank you for your comments,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0s= uggestions on
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this issue,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0probably the most
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0challenging
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specification. In the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0course of our discussions,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0we've agreed to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0abandon the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0request to allocate the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dedicated MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to be used as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the destination MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the inner
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet frame.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, earlier using VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 was
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an operator.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The most recent
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whether
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0V= TEP's
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0might be used as the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0destination MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the inner
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet frame. As I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0recall it, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= omments
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0from VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0experts equally split
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0with one
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for it
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= nd one
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0against. Hence
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I would like to propose
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a new
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0text to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= esolve
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the issue. The
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0idea is to let an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0operator select
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0M= anagement
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI and use
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that VNI in VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of BFD
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Control packets:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NEW TEXT:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An operator MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0select a VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0n= umber to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be used as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VNI. VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VNI MUST NOT=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be sent to a tenant. VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0number 1 is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RECOMMENDED as the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VNI.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0With that new text, what
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0can be the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0v= alue of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the destination
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC in the inner Ethernet? I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tend to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b= elieve
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that it can be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0anything and ignored by the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reciever VTEP.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, if the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trapping is based on VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0number, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0destination IP address<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the inner IP packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0can from
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the range
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0127/8 for IPv4,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and for IPv6 from the range
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/1= 04. And
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0lastly, the TTL to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0set to 1 (no
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= hange here).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Much appreciate your
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0comments,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0q= uestions, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0suggestions.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best regards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
--000000000000cc922205925e38fd-- From nobody Thu Sep 12 11:32:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E65120872 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VrI-3hhaQDGm for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52c.google.com (mail-pg1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D4B612087D for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id j191so3369579pgd.3 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=R/6j6gfQwm8c2mZM+8M+EcggN00bg9Ootxna8JLJ5XE=; b=QGl+sPUsyMyT3mS2JwHqF++EVDX2ZeLuFvAccKBWse1eUZGCj+UUAbBGlqli5/yqkP dOMcoYbIrprjynwBJWkPBONJv4ImMeIRh34nphl+0HBENvX/ywGhGzyEUJYc/bauW8Ra zPbxHXdLOibJtuFtHdgPRRn50EkY2hCH1MTYM7RYzXUoovu5qJgAbYTKR5qregnLYtEn KjyOsJNuXaCyQg4lWGDzM78RN9gfli6j3QWySVbBob8GxFCa9EERrIIB2EBbNGS94kH6 J/UfZnpvnwdWcHyN3pvVbyPOdJSkccSpT+P2Sw1OAnKUrKZoEY/AAySj2jzL2fYeBPge bExA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=R/6j6gfQwm8c2mZM+8M+EcggN00bg9Ootxna8JLJ5XE=; b=eUtN+TrApsRvgOh/egGdK4N3JYDLY4FsEHODpTS8ryB2ISicVrZPvEKGFe45AvHrf8 6Dg/gepaCIr1Jn0MrqOnf/pMhNEBC0f93RQAUuqvJnNNp5uDg2Tn2mqCqBmWTFlTLbGp AzhTGexxEWWNY+pg3AGUqxy+V9bJduBYya8eyegWgGP7KCwBwbQFGBeCdpRSx8BYCKU2 b3JRZBDV98cN2B3BmdBqg7UO7pkd2b3NzECrfGOHGl96SiCtP5GJwTmWMck+CNAiaZcN uQdR21y7piii4SvsbqLTrLTY5fTmb13xBl2l0yqTYZaci7368vA9yby0UXNAB/0FsjED b13Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWNYvZNPqjhIpWSa9JK4tgxH9C6tVKTsoOd13vKFqLOv7R/jLN9 CZpXLhB8Y1HFnpdtUFGKmR0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxRPxNRwB+z8deRCinEeruWJjS+JYaQ8X3iqIpH+31kaybyJ5nbkGiiAZUNflznwzkm4lZQog== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2264:: with SMTP id t36mr37663940pgm.87.1568313149067; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.33.122.240] ([66.170.99.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g7sm23620252pfi.108.2019.09.12.11.32.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <79121DF3-3BDB-401B-9759-5E72CBFE07BF@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_225A5F65-63DB-4BFD-AEDB-8C2DE50880BE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:32:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> Cc: "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" To: Reshad Rehman References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:32:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_225A5F65-63DB-4BFD-AEDB-8C2DE50880BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I support the publication of this draft. It is useful, and addresses a = problem in a network that we know has different MTU values. > On Aug 27, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) = wrote: >=20 > BFD WG, > =20 > As was mentioned at IETF105, this document is stable and there was an = interop test done between FRR and Junos VMX. > =20 > Please provide comments/feedback on the document. The deadline for = last call is September 13th. > =20 > Regards, > Reshad & Jeff. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_225A5F65-63DB-4BFD-AEDB-8C2DE50880BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = support the publication of this draft. It is useful, and addresses a = problem in a network that we know has different MTU values.

On Aug 27, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com> = wrote:

BFD WG,
 
As was mentioned = at IETF105, this document is stable and there was an interop test done = between FRR and Junos VMX.
 
Please provide = comments/feedback on the document. The deadline for last call = is September 13th.
 
Regards,
Reshad & = Jeff.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_225A5F65-63DB-4BFD-AEDB-8C2DE50880BE-- From nobody Thu Sep 12 11:36:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234FD120241; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:36:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: jhaas@pfrc.org, rtg-bfd@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, bfd-chairs@ietf.org Subject: bfd - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 106 X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.101.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156831336906.16501.978244854652840860.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:36:09 -0700 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:36:09 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Jeffrey Haas, a Chair of the bfd working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Jeffrey Haas Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: idr grow rtgwg bess lisp netmod netconf Technology Overlap: bier spring mpls teas pals sfc Key Participant Conflict: ccamp People who must be present: Jeffrey Haas Reshad Rahman Martin Vigoureux Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Sep 12 19:56:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C66612001A for ; 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Fri, 13 Sep 2019 02:56:02 +0000 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" CC: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Index: AQHVXPUyTxWyJBtWsEOnJ4ETycFi16cjIc8AgAXh04A= Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 02:56:02 +0000 Message-ID: <4858942C-0B22-40EE-867E-23F24BA54B34@cisco.com> References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=cpignata@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.117.84] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b6530ca1-8a7b-4e0b-559e-08d737f5e99c x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600166)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the reminder, Reshad. I support publication of this document, sh= ort and useful. I only have one comment in regards to: It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can function with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size may have impact on BFD scaling. Such systems may support a lower transmission interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in large packet mode. This interval may depend on the size of the transport PDU. Instead of (or in addition to) a lower transmission interval, why not add f= lexibility to not *have* to send large packets every packet, and instead se= nd every n paks or so? Thanks! Carlos. On Sep 9, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) > wrote: BFD WG, reminder that WGLC is ongoing for this document. Regards, Reshad. From: Rtg-bfd > o= n behalf of "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" > Date: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 12:34 PM To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" > Subject: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets BFD WG, As was mentioned at IETF105, this document is stable and there was an inter= op test done between FRR and Junos VMX. Please provide comments/feedback on the document. The deadline for last cal= l is September 13th. Regards, Reshad & Jeff. --_000_4858942C0B2240EE867E23F24BA54B34ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the reminder, Reshad. I support publication of this document, sh= ort and useful.

I only have one comment in regards to:

   It is also worthy of note that even if an impl= ementation can function
   with larger transport PDUs, that additional pa= cket size may have
   impact on BFD scaling.  Such systems may = support a lower transmission
   interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when opera= ting in large packet
   mode.  This interval may depend on the si= ze of the transport PDU.

Instead of (or in addition to) a lower transmission interval, why not add f= lexibility to not *have* to send large packets every packet, and instead se= nd every n paks or so?

Thanks!

Carlos.

On Sep 9, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com> wro= te:

BFD WG, reminder that WGLC is o= ngoing for this document.
 
Regards,<= /span>
Reshad.
=  
From: Rtg-bfd <<= a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org" class=3D"">rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.= org> on behalf of "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Date: T= uesday, August 27, 2019 at 12:34 PM
To: &qu= ot;rtg-bfd@ietf.org"= ; <rtg-bfd@ietf.org&g= t;
Subject: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets
 
BFD WG,<= /o:p>
 
As was mentioned at IETF105, th= is document is stable and there was an interop test done between FRR and Ju= nos VMX.
 
Please provide comments/feedbac= k on the document. The deadline for last call is September 13th.
 
Regards,=
Reshad & Jeff.

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([2601:647:5600:5020:c9f0:407:a271:17c3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u4sm24143877pfh.55.2019.09.12.21.13.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:13:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BA2B4859-955D-415A-8D87-3C271B219634" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:13:39 -0700 In-Reply-To: <4858942C-0B22-40EE-867E-23F24BA54B34@cisco.com> Cc: Reshad Rehman , "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" To: Carlos Pignataro References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <4858942C-0B22-40EE-867E-23F24BA54B34@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 04:13:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BA2B4859-955D-415A-8D87-3C271B219634 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Carlos, > On Sep 12, 2019, at 7:56 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the reminder, Reshad. I support publication of this = document, short and useful. >=20 > I only have one comment in regards to: >=20 > It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can = function > with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size may have > impact on BFD scaling. Such systems may support a lower = transmission > interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in large packet > mode. This interval may depend on the size of the transport PDU. >=20 > Instead of (or in addition to) a lower transmission interval, why not = add flexibility to not *have* to send large packets every packet, and = instead send every n paks or so? Wouldn=E2=80=99t that have a problem that one packet lost every n = packets would still keep the BFD session up? Cheers. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Carlos. >=20 >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) = > wrote: >>=20 >> BFD WG, reminder that WGLC is ongoing for this document. >> =20 >> Regards, >> Reshad. >> =20 >> From: Rtg-bfd > on behalf of "Reshad Rahman = (rrahman)" > >> Date: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 12:34 PM >> To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org " > >> Subject: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets >> =20 >> BFD WG, >> =20 >> As was mentioned at IETF105, this document is stable and there was an = interop test done between FRR and Junos VMX. >> =20 >> Please provide comments/feedback on the document. The deadline for = last call is September 13th. >> =20 >> Regards, >> Reshad & Jeff. >=20 --Apple-Mail=_BA2B4859-955D-415A-8D87-3C271B219634 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Carlos,

On Sep 12, 2019, at 7:56 PM, Carlos Pignataro = (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

Thanks for the reminder, Reshad. I support publication of this document, = short and useful.

I only have one comment in regards to:

   It is also worthy of note that even if an = implementation can function
   with larger transport PDUs, that additional = packet size may have
   impact on BFD scaling.  Such systems = may support a lower transmission
   interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when = operating in large packet
   mode.  This interval may depend on the = size of the transport PDU.

Instead of (or in addition to) a lower transmission interval, why not = add flexibility to not *have* to send large packets every packet, and = instead send every n paks or so?

Wouldn=E2=80=99t that have a problem that one packet = lost every n packets would still keep the BFD session up?

Cheers.


Thanks!

Carlos.

On Sep 9, 2019, at 10:55 AM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) = <rrahman@cisco.com> wrote:

BFD WG, reminder that WGLC = is ongoing for this document.
 
Regards,
Reshad.
 
From: Rtg-bfd <rtg-bfd-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Reshad Rahman = (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 27, = 2019 at 12:34 PM
To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: WGLC for = draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets
 
BFD WG,
 
As was mentioned at IETF105, = this document is stable and there was an interop test done between FRR = and Junos VMX.
 
Please provide = comments/feedback on the document. The deadline for last call = is September 13th.
 
Regards,
Reshad & = Jeff.


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-0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3DB871E2F3; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <4858942C-0B22-40EE-867E-23F24BA54B34@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:10:04 -0400 Cc: Reshad Rahman , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <14F6F67F-1421-4E04-B0AF-50FCCD96468C@pfrc.org> References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <4858942C-0B22-40EE-867E-23F24BA54B34@cisco.com> To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:10:07 -0000 Carlos, > On Sep 12, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the reminder, Reshad. I support publication of this = document, short and useful. >=20 > I only have one comment in regards to: >=20 > It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can = function > with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size may have > impact on BFD scaling. Such systems may support a lower = transmission > interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in large packet > mode. This interval may depend on the size of the transport PDU. >=20 > Instead of (or in addition to) a lower transmission interval, why not = add flexibility to not *have* to send large packets every packet, and = instead send every n paks or so? Such a thing could be done. A form of this sort of thing for "probing" = was discussed in a prior draft I did with Xiao Min, but that was for = Echo mode. But since this in BFD async mode, the timers are likely chosen for the = worst case. So, if we have the usual Detect Multiplier of 3 and we can = support sending a large packet every (e.g.) 25ms, and our implementation = would normally send smaller packets every 10ms, we'd need to negotiate = for some range between 10 and 25 knowing that the occasional large = packet may itself perturb timing enough it might be counted as loss. So, such a thing could be done by an implementation, but timing is = messy. If you want something a bit more occasional, I suggest a = reasonable set of timers in async mode and more clever procedures in = Echo mode, if you support that. -- Jeff From nobody Fri Sep 13 05:33:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2554A120219 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 05:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lACZ3WNaYOG5 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 05:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFE34120091 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 05:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC6211E2F3; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:33:50 -0400 Cc: Reshad Rahman , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:33:54 -0000 Ketan, Thanks for your comments. > On Sep 12, 2019, at 11:55 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) = wrote: >=20 > Hi All, > =20 > I would like to ask some questions and seek clarifications on this = draft. > =20 > =E2=80=A2 I am aware that this draft originates from practical = pain points at a specific operator. During the adoption calls, the = scenarios were debated in detail. It was basically a L2 WAN circuit = service over a provider network and the challenge was that the PMTU of = the underlying path in the SP network changes dynamically. However, from = the Enterprise POV, the L2 circuit is seen as a single link and the BFD = runs in directly connected mode. The draft however, discusses BFD = multi-hop which is an entirely different use-case. This is perhaps some poor wording choices in the Introduction section. = The intent is really that this is usable for all cases where BFD may be = used. The Introduction text was intended to note that for single-hop = scenarios, BFD Echo procedures may be sufficient to solve the problem. = (See comment to Carlos elsewhere in the thread.) However, for any form = of multi-hop, you can't solve this via Echo. General note about the "pain points at a specific author": While Albert = certainly was the first customer I'd had willing to help stamp their = name on such a draft, I'd been approached in my chair capacity both in = IETF and at my employer over the years about similar headaches many = times. This is sadly not a rare problem. > When doing multi-hop, the BFD packet could go over entirely different = paths in the network with different PMTUs (especially different from the = application sending large packets) =E2=80=93 this makes things flaky? So = shouldn=E2=80=99t this mechanism be actually focussed on the single = hop/directly connected mode instead? Even for single-hop this may be slightly flakey. Consider "directly = connected" links that are composed from LAGs. =20 The draft doesn't try to completely address all such forms of multipath = problems, even for directly connected solutions. When we were doing BFD = for LAGs, we realized that trying to get overly specific in terms of the = implementation not only got ourselves perilously into the specifics of a = given vendor, but potentially into conflict with IEEE in terms of = discussions about distributing traffic. To that end, we've been silent = on the matter in this draft. It's reasonable in any BFD implementation dealing with multipath issues = to potentially interact with the load balancer and decide to exercise = specific links. I believe it's the case for some scenarios that your = own employer may do this in pre BFD-on-LAG implementations for single = hop BFD based on some old mailing list discussion. However, it's proven = unreasonable over the life of the BFD protocol to try to get too = pedantic over how to do such a thing; some hardware may simply not = support it. > =20 > =E2=80=A2 There are implementations with BFD offload to H/W out = there. What happens when a particular implementation cannot handle such = large packet sizes (and I am not specifically aware of one such)? Like = other aspects of monitoring like the intervals, would there be a value = in indicating a support for large packets during the signalling? The = draft does raise the need for it but doesn=E2=80=99t seem to do anything = about it =E2=80=93 why? Either we need it and this draft should define = it. Or we don=E2=80=99t need it and it would placing the onus on the = operator to enable this when they know both ends support it. Then it is = something for operational consideration section perhaps? This is effectively a criticism of BFD in general rather than = specifically this feature. Part of the motivation for RFC 7419, Common = Interval Support in Bidirectional Forwarding Detection, was to specify a = number of common implementation timings. But even then, that document = doesn't talk much about scaling considerations for a given set of = intervals. Common considerations for implementors and operators tend to = be "my implementation can support X sessions at 3.3ms, Y and 10ms, and Z = much slower if we leave the fully distributed to the line card mode". = This just simply means the product sheet gets another axis in its = listings. What you're asking for in the protocol otherwise is a mechanism to = negotiate or renegotiate a set of timers over a given set of interfaces = based on existing or future re-provisioning of session quantity and = parameters. I think you'll find operators aren't particularly = supportive of that. FWIW, we expect exactly these same questions during IESG review. BFD = had exactly this type of question when doing even the base RFC 5880 = work. (BFD tends to make the current Transport AD unhappy.) > =20 > =E2=80=A2 There was a discussion on the list about whether this = needs to be done for every packet or not. I don=E2=80=99t find that = discussion or the result captured in the draft. The draft just says that = perhaps longer intervals should be applied to BFD when doing large = packets =E2=80=93 but this will defeat the purpose of fast-detection. = What would be good is we have both fast-detection and slow PMTU = validation? Perhaps we need some analysis of whether large packets = should be used always or intermittently and the pros/cons or guidelines = for the same? See my comment to Carlos in-thread about why this makes the timers = tricky. See also how BFD Echo can solve this problem in some = circumstances without negotiation. It's worth noting that BFD is quite capable of dynamically = re-negotiating its timers. This means an implementation could have a = behavior such as: 1. Start by bringing up its session with timers for regular sized = packets, and 3.3ms 2. Decide to shift to large packets, but renegotiate to 10ms timers = first. The "signaling" that a system is willing to accept the large packets is = shifting to a longer timer. > =20 > =E2=80=A2 The draft is missing an operational considerations and = manageability considerations sections. Some of this info is placed in = sec 3, but would help if things were elaborated in their individual = sections. It would provide more insight into how exactly this mechanism = in BFD is envisaged to be actually deployed and used. More importantly, = perhaps how it should NOT be used? Is there specific information you think should go into such a section = that isn't otherwise present in the draft? The "how it should NOT" be = used is a challenging section to write - somewhat similar to proving = negatives - without specific content. > =20 > Can the authors and WG discuss the above? I think it seems too rushed = to go for WGLC just as yet? The purpose of WGLC is to provide the working group an opportunity to = drive out commentary like that above when things are otherwise quiet. = :-) Thanks for providing it. -- Jeff From nobody Fri Sep 13 08:48:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3528C120047 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:48:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=leJv+15E; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=tL2R8Foi Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HgQAFR2Otw7s for ; 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Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:48:44 +0000 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Jeffrey Haas CC: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Index: AQHVXPUyTxWyJBtWsEOnJ4ETycFi16cjIc8AgAXh04CAAJrNAIAAPRgr Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:48:44 +0000 Message-ID: <9ABE9227-1259-41DE-A4CD-D58C6E23586E@cisco.com> References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <4858942C-0B22-40EE-867E-23F24BA54B34@cisco.com>, <14F6F67F-1421-4E04-B0AF-50FCCD96468C@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <14F6F67F-1421-4E04-B0AF-50FCCD96468C@pfrc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: ja-JP X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=cpignata@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [8.46.76.31] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d3ee0065-9123-4b30-0d71-08d73861dbad x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600166)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7193020); 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Fri, 13 Sep 2019 11:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CiFjSECJtqAm for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 11:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99F0120110 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 11:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3F5C1E2F3; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 14:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <9ABE9227-1259-41DE-A4CD-D58C6E23586E@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 14:08:02 -0400 Cc: Reshad Rahman , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <95CF8AE5-968C-4D97-A972-17391D9757CE@pfrc.org> References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <4858942C-0B22-40EE-867E-23F24BA54B34@cisco.com> <14F6F67F-1421-4E04-B0AF-50FCCD96468C@pfrc.org> <9ABE9227-1259-41DE-A4CD-D58C6E23586E@cisco.com> To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 18:08:05 -0000 Carlo,s > On Sep 13, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) = wrote: > Right. Or a burst of large packets and a set of bursts of =E2=80=9Cregul= ar sized=E2=80=9D ones. My main point is that I=E2=80=99d like the spec = to allow for flexibility in usage if you think it makes sense, and not = be all-or-nothing.=20 No matter what, you'd have to accommodate for the timers. If your timers will accommodate small and large within the same = interval, go for it. If you need to renegotiate to do a periodic check, = go for it. BFD is permissive about such things. :-) Even better, suggest text that makes you think such a thing is = explicitly permitted rather than implicitly permitted. I treat this as = simply varying bfd.PaddedPduSize on an established session. =20 -- Jeff From nobody Sun Sep 15 19:10:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B5112080E for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 19:10:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.938 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.938 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y0KyEL2yKX9m for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 19:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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PjwvZGl2PjxwPjxicj48L3A+PC9kaXY+ --=====_003_next=====-- --=====_002_next=====-- --=====_001_next=====-- From nobody Tue Sep 17 12:15:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14DA120127 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:15:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wwnLB_lza7xi for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgnj2.bloomberg.net (mgnj2.bloomberg.net [69.191.244.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8C69120A44 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BB-Reception-Complete: 17 Sep 2019 15:15:17 -0400 X-IP-Listener: Outgoing Mail X-IP-MID: 1254308339 Received: from msllnjpmsgsv06.bloomberg.com (HELO msllnjpmsgsv06) ([10.126.134.166]) by mgnj2.bloomberg.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 2019 15:15:17 -0400 X-BLP-INETSVC: version=BLP_APP_S_INETSVC_1.0.1; host=mgnj2:25; conid=348 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:15:17 -0000 From: "Albert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 120 PARK)" Reply-To: "Albert Fu" To: cpignata@cisco.com, rtg-bfd@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5D8130C5015300A600390835_0_79005@msllnjpmsgsv06> X-BLP-GUID: 5D8130C5015300A6003908350000 Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6UnRnLWJmZCBEaWdlc3QsIFZvbCAxNjMsIElzc3VlIDk=?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="BOUNDARY_5D8130C5015300A600390835_0_112624_msllnjpmsgsv06" Content-ID: Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding 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b3V0DQo+IHNwZWNpZmljIGNvbnRlbnQuDQo+IA0KPiA+DQo+ID4gQ2FuIHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGFu ZCBXRyBkaXNjdXNzIHRoZSBhYm92ZT8gSSB0aGluayBpdCBzZWVtcyB0b28gcnVzaGVkIHRvDQo+ IGdvIGZvciBXR0xDIGp1c3QgYXMgeWV0Pw0KPiANCj4gVGhlIHB1cnBvc2Ugb2YgV0dMQyBpcyB0 byBwcm92aWRlIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGFuIG9wcG9ydHVuaXR5IHRvIGRyaXZlDQo+IG91 dCBjb21tZW50YXJ5IGxpa2UgdGhhdCBhYm92ZSB3aGVuIHRoaW5ncyBhcmUgb3RoZXJ3aXNlIHF1 aWV0LiA6LSkgIFRoYW5rcw0KPiBmb3IgcHJvdmlkaW5nIGl0Lg0KPiANCj4gLS0gSmVmZg0KDQo= From nobody Wed Sep 18 08:25:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E0A1208AE for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MrEIaRBxaxMI for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B83F120881 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 415CA1E2F4; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 11:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 11:28:17 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Message-ID: <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:25:36 -0000 Les, On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 05:24:17AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > 1)Sorry to be late in responding - but just back from vacation. I wouldn't know anything about that sort of problem. :-) > There are very legitimate concerns about the impact supporting padded BFD PDUs may have on existing hardware implementations - both functionally and in terms of scalability. > As a standards track document I think more needs to be said about operational considerations - and I think there may be legitimate reasons to consider negotiation of the capability. > In particular the statement in Section 3: > > "Additional changes to the base BFD protocol may be required to permit negotiation of this functionality > and the padding value." > > If these protocol changes are to be made, shouldn't they be specified in this document?? Otherwise the document would seem just informational. No. There's not really any room in BFD v1 for negotiation. That would take something like BFDv2, as we've started discussing in the working group. Your point about the document being potentially informational is certainly possible, albeit probably not what you're really intending. As implementation has already shown us, one side can simply start using this procedure without any support required on the other side. I.e. there's no protocol changes we're doing. > Section 3 also suggests > > "support[ing] a lower transmission interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval)" > > as a means of minimizing scalability impacts. But in early discussions of this draft it had been suggested that rather than use BFD for PathMTU validation we could use another protocol (e.g., IS-IS hellos) to do this. But that was rejected because it was stated that the deployment requirement required much faster detection. If that argument holds, then the suggestion in the draft to use longer timers seems inappropriate - or at least without sufficient context. More context could be added, if there's appropriate text to add. Suggestions are welcome. However, this isn't particularly different from any other BFD considerations we've had over the years across all uses of BFD. Your scale for sessions vs. timers will depend on transport, whether it's distributed to the line card or not, hardware support vs. general purpose CPU, etc. BFD implementors and users expect to do some level of tuning. This is normal. What you otherwise seem to be implying is that some operational forum should mandate a profile for number of sessions vs. timers vs. MTU size vs. transport on a particular set of hardware. And even then, that's not impacting on this document's procedures. > (BTW, by "lower transmission interval" I assume you mean a longer interval (i.e., a larger value for bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval)??) Yes. > I think these points need to be addressed in the draft before it is can be considered complete. -- Jeff From nobody Wed Sep 18 17:06:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B9E120AED for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:06:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=JT2N6D8b; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=lUmBnJOE Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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ZWVkIHRvIGNsZWFybHkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGUgZGVzaXJlZCBiZWhhdmlvciBmb3IgdGhpcyBl eHRlbnNpb24uIEJhc2VkIG9uIFdHIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gSSBkaWQgbm90IHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgc2xv d2VyIGRldGVjdGlvbiB0aW1lIHdhcyBhIGdvYWwuDQogDQogICAgTGVzDQoNCj4gPiAoQlRXLCBi eSAibG93ZXIgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIGludGVydmFsIiBJIGFzc3VtZSB5b3UgbWVhbiBhIGxvbmdl ciBpbnRlcnZhbA0KPiAoaS5lLiwgYSBsYXJnZXIgdmFsdWUgZm9yIGJmZC5EZXNpcmVkTWluVHhJ bnRlcnZhbCk/PykNCj4gDQo+IFllcy4NCj4gDQo+ID4gSSB0aGluayB0aGVzZSBwb2ludHMgbmVl ZCB0byBiZSBhZGRyZXNzZWQgaW4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGJlZm9yZSBpdCBpcyBjYW4gYmUNCj4gY29u c2lkZXJlZCBjb21wbGV0ZS4NCj4gDQo+IC0tIEplZmYNCg== From nobody Wed Sep 18 18:58:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9E21200B2 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:58:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RhYklJWftiq1 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4EA12008A for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 11C001E2F4; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:01:28 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Message-ID: <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 01:58:41 -0000 Les, On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:06:13AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > > If these protocol changes are to be made, shouldn't they be specified in > > this document?? Otherwise the document would seem just informational. > > > > No. There's not really any room in BFD v1 for negotiation. That would take > > something like BFDv2, as we've started discussing in the working group. > > > > [Les:] I am not fully comfortable with the notion that it is OK to deploy this w/o regard for whether existing implementations can handle it. I think there is some risk here and I would like the WG to discuss this point and - if agreed to - have the draft explicitly state that the risks of deploying this w/o negotiation have been considered and deemed acceptable. The fact that one implementation had no issue with it isn't compelling. FWIW, I'm not blowing off your considerations. Mostly, I'm highlighting that we get them regularly. TSV review of BFD in every flavor over the entire life of the protocol has been some variety of this conversation. We just get to replay the entire life of BFD RFCs within such considerations with every new TSV area director. :-) Obviously it's up to Reshad as the shepherding chair how this process plays forward, but I suspect it'll resemble: - Getting further consensus from the rest of the WG whether this consideration is a sticking point. - If it is, do we force this to be deferred to BFD v2? - Alternatively, can we cleverly figure out some way to wedge negotiation on top of the existing feature in a backward compatible way? (My answer: possibly. Whether it's worth the complexity bump is the arguable component since simplicity of the protocol has been a stronger driving factor for implementors than scaling considerations.) I'd like to hear from other implementors whether they share your concerns. But either way, this exact conversation will play out again with the TSV ADs during IESG review. This is expected. > > However, this isn't particularly different from any other BFD considerations > > we've had over the years across all uses of BFD. Your scale for sessions > > vs. timers will depend on transport, whether it's distributed to the line > > card or not, hardware support vs. general purpose CPU, etc. BFD > > implementors and users expect to do some level of tuning. This is normal. > > > > [Les:] The point I am highlighting is that we already have (at least for some deployments) a way to detect this within a scale of several seconds (or at least 10s of seconds). You're over-simplifying your point slightly. That's true for one protocol, IS-IS, where the padding can be done. For those that can benefit from that scenario, great! But I suspect you'd agree that not everyone is going to enable IS-IS on a link just to test MTU liveness. > If the argument is that this is not fast enough, what is fast enough? Much as you aren't a fan of RFC 7419, that's exactly why that document existed. Some level of commonality was desired in order to develop more uniform scaling comparisons. It's entirely possible that some implementations will take zero hit to run BFD at exactly the same wire rate. A BFD PDU every 3.3ms is not that much in the way of pps. And, if your forwarding silicon does its job of isolating IP validation in the pipeline before punting to the BFD code, BFD itself may not take any hit in terms of cycles. However, if you're software only, you may now be congesting a host path. We already run into flavors of these considerations for regular 5880 BFD over various transports. The timer and session granularities vary. No one freaks out at this. > The conclusion I drew from the earlier discussion was that existing detection times for BFD were what was wanted. But the text in the draft suggests that the addition of MTU checking might justify accepting a slower detection time. I'm going to simply point out that such considerations apply to built-in BFD features such as authentication. If you enable some classes of authentication, you've impacted your detection interval. I'd like to know why you think that this feature is any scarier than the impact of authentication. -- Jeff From nobody Wed Sep 18 19:37:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF3F1200D6 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=E7v+7kY+; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=jtsbqAuz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IJmx6wSeMPoc for ; 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Thu, 19 Sep 2019 02:37:11 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Jeffrey Haas CC: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Index: AQHVXPUyTxWyJBtWsEOnJ4ETycFi16cjIc8AgAXoLNCAAJsYAIAHXvgQgACtbYCAAF1t0IAAU3wAgAAHCHA= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 02:37:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ginsberg@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c8:1008::20d] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f55eb3ca-dbf6-485d-72be-08d73caa462f x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600167)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7193020); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f55eb3ca-dbf6-485d-72be-08d73caa462f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Sep 2019 02:37:10.9309 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vpM3gGwgWv3TH3/j44H0rtsyGwcaCW9aU02nZpjLVSOzEbPZzt1LJltSlCRxRWsfEvOjXHsAbCdsMB1e2ElqPg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2726 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.25, xch-aln-015.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 02:37:18 -0000 Jeff - First I would like to reemphasize that I support the draft - so we aren't o= n opposite sides here. It is just that Last Call seems premature. As for the comparison with authentication... Authentication added new functionality which cost CPU time. The tradeoff th= ere was clear - performance/scale vs security. But there was no concern tha= t the addition of the authentication bytes in and of itself might introduce= a problem. Large packets introduces MTU sized packets - which in and of itself is unli= kely to cause a performance issue. But, having spent a fair number of hours= debugging MTU related issues of various flavors, I do think it is likely t= o expose bugs in packet processing related to size. It shouldn't - in a per= fect world - but what chips/software does with sub-MTU sized packets doesn'= t always translate to MTU size packets. And since the definition of what MT= U is isn't consistent across vendors (let alone even within a single vendor= 's products) there are many ways to screw up configuration here. Throw in a= ll the various flavors of encaps...I think we can expect deployment issues = - and maybe bugs as well. Just my thoughts... Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Haas > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 7:01 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Cc: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; Reshad Rahman > (rrahman) ; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets >=20 > Les, >=20 > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:06:13AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > > > If these protocol changes are to be made, shouldn't they be specifi= ed in > > > this document?? Otherwise the document would seem just > informational. > > > > > > No. There's not really any room in BFD v1 for negotiation. That wou= ld > take > > > something like BFDv2, as we've started discussing in the working grou= p. > > > > > > > [Les:] I am not fully comfortable with the notion that it is OK to depl= oy this > w/o regard for whether existing implementations can handle it. I think th= ere > is some risk here and I would like the WG to discuss this point and - if = agreed > to - have the draft explicitly state that the risks of deploying this w/o > negotiation have been considered and deemed acceptable. The fact that one > implementation had no issue with it isn't compelling. >=20 > FWIW, I'm not blowing off your considerations. Mostly, I'm highlighting > that we get them regularly. TSV review of BFD in every flavor over the > entire life of the protocol has been some variety of this conversation. = We > just get to replay the entire life of BFD RFCs within such considerations > with every new TSV area director. :-) >=20 > Obviously it's up to Reshad as the shepherding chair how this process pla= ys > forward, but I suspect it'll resemble: > - Getting further consensus from the rest of the WG whether this > consideration is a sticking point. > - If it is, do we force this to be deferred to BFD v2? > - Alternatively, can we cleverly figure out some way to wedge negotiation= on > top of the existing feature in a backward compatible way? (My answer: > possibly. Whether it's worth the complexity bump is the arguable > component > since simplicity of the protocol has been a stronger driving factor for > implementors than scaling considerations.) >=20 > I'd like to hear from other implementors whether they share your concerns= . > But either way, this exact conversation will play out again with the TSV = ADs > during IESG review. This is expected. >=20 > > > However, this isn't particularly different from any other BFD > considerations > > > we've had over the years across all uses of BFD. Your scale for sess= ions > > > vs. timers will depend on transport, whether it's distributed to the = line > > > card or not, hardware support vs. general purpose CPU, etc. BFD > > > implementors and users expect to do some level of tuning. This is > normal. > > > > > > > [Les:] The point I am highlighting is that we already have (at least fo= r some > deployments) a way to detect this within a scale of several seconds (or a= t > least 10s of seconds). >=20 > You're over-simplifying your point slightly. That's true for one protoco= l, > IS-IS, where the padding can be done. For those that can benefit from th= at > scenario, great! But I suspect you'd agree that not everyone is going to > enable IS-IS on a link just to test MTU liveness. >=20 > > If the argument is that this is not fast enough, what is fast enough? >=20 > Much as you aren't a fan of RFC 7419, that's exactly why that document > existed. Some level of commonality was desired in order to develop more > uniform scaling comparisons. >=20 > It's entirely possible that some implementations will take zero hit to ru= n > BFD at exactly the same wire rate. A BFD PDU every 3.3ms is not that muc= h > in the way of pps. And, if your forwarding silicon does its job of > isolating IP validation in the pipeline before punting to the BFD code, B= FD > itself may not take any hit in terms of cycles. However, if you're softw= are > only, you may now be congesting a host path. >=20 > We already run into flavors of these considerations for regular 5880 BFD > over various transports. The timer and session granularities vary. No o= ne > freaks out at this. >=20 > > The conclusion I drew from the earlier discussion was that existing > detection times for BFD were what was wanted. But the text in the draft > suggests that the addition of MTU checking might justify accepting a slow= er > detection time. >=20 > I'm going to simply point out that such considerations apply to built-in = BFD > features such as authentication. If you enable some classes of > authentication, you've impacted your detection interval. >=20 > I'd like to know why you think that this feature is any scarier than the > impact of authentication. >=20 > -- Jeff From nobody Thu Sep 19 05:16:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120D01201A3 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 05:16:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lk-_Die-aVqv for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 05:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93C3120024 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 05:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 096861E2D2; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 08:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 08:16:41 -0400 Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Reshad Rahman , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:16:45 -0000 Les, > On Sep 18, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > First I would like to reemphasize that I support the draft - so we = aren't on opposite sides here. It is just that Last Call seems = premature. The purpose of WGLC is to shake out final comments when things have = otherwise stalled. If it's not ready, we're not bothered by that. :-) That said, we need to match concerns with something actionable. That's = what I'm hunting for. > As for the comparison with authentication... >=20 > Authentication added new functionality which cost CPU time. The = tradeoff there was clear - performance/scale vs security. But there was = no concern that the addition of the authentication bytes in and of = itself might introduce a problem. Most of your commentary was focused around the impact on detection time, = hence the response you got regarding other features that have similar = impact. So, if we've moved on from detection time impact of features to other = issues, that's fine. >=20 > Large packets introduces MTU sized packets - which in and of itself is = unlikely to cause a performance issue. But, having spent a fair number = of hours debugging MTU related issues of various flavors, I do think it = is likely to expose bugs in packet processing related to size. It = shouldn't - in a perfect world - but what chips/software does with = sub-MTU sized packets doesn't always translate to MTU size packets. And = since the definition of what MTU is isn't consistent across vendors (let = alone even within a single vendor's products) there are many ways to = screw up configuration here. Throw in all the various flavors of = encaps...I think we can expect deployment issues - and maybe bugs as = well. I think Albert is happy to see this text. :-) The primary purpose of this feature is to shake loose issues related to = MTU sized packets and try to remove such paths from service when we = can't forward through them. The path detection at speed is a general = good fit for BFD. What I'm concerned about is you're trying to point out "when there are = issues, this doesn't help - and at best exacerbates them". If so... = well, this feature isn't intended to be a debugging layer for those sort = of issues. However, since BFD is riding on top of various transports to = do this job, if the encapsulation can carry additional information that = permits such debugging information, we're amenable to discussing what to = do with it. -- Jeff From nobody Sun Sep 22 14:38:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C06120043; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 00:41:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NqP699vQNlHT; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 00:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8CF612002F; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 00:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id 5so6491435wmg.0; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 00:41:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QTEygMlLdY3xYUibTGjnvtch0ZG7vrXhIcHmUcZxuuM=; b=CE1UzMNS0cTpyfdPLYx1rKMHdyGunaOwzl1CPVlxEd6fsPsYhzKc62g/rtYxYttRCJ TvbEi+BuaOpl36BFeIIp5j4ASElU2EWAK90BqFDOXM/CTVHIN8cyunp/rvLsjdFBbIJF oLsrU9K2sSZj8/h+IXI/PC8YLw3rR5mzSX33adyEIGwU7MFUrLxa0yq8TtmeG3r/16+E DZsWtlY40wqx9U0c29efZbFJQEplPc4kS35iRLNc4Ng2vwQ6TWXcarNwPVcZYEcmByCZ xEtcHF938vXYuya3ieU38YVI/Y39j9/hriDMWE65LSywICwWadfKczjp8cFXlLEBKUFC TF1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QTEygMlLdY3xYUibTGjnvtch0ZG7vrXhIcHmUcZxuuM=; b=IQqhLEOrsgq5heqhdUZucjwbHR+oibRI5xaM/2Y5b0a5QnXEqYj4kVjb9SfxPEHW2F mGutBKuFfSb0NiqmJfn1vk4Y++Zol6AedRBy3bnoAZ5yJER3veRPmp9SMjxQBWcYN5kW he6YKsB6gQoCgTCeGMTc8GEwk48wR0uqAeWktJBnLHFfvCoRqvfOXav/WqSbeSXfAquZ 9u7V8Nii+RNE0ofWCLQJi4ZrECQoDkyQfZl+eaPk1UOCESJjKlI6tc8eKrF4ymm3ePJR fX8KVdZm4UOqjBjs+BkQCRLSXdyLqRjfjwaycrtbnoWiNmJKd96xrf31WCIDXdrbBESz 7akw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVR39SNs9QhGJdZTSIbJhj2nqQaZFZklcQdUI7tHxWdPOPWrtzP QOUoNwKEP6cDT0KO6zQ2d6JDURybqRqTxdrEBks= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqywhd0X9KNMDenZmMLsT8X3JF4YwqFwCznRWLcrscP0HKkTtzpBItiW60xI1G8XNaxaD4A/8/Sjd1vgdg03N3w= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4946:: with SMTP id w67mr9508444wma.131.1569138091709; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 00:41:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7437a61e-133c-c53e-fd1d-c3a31e4e90a9@joelhalpern.com> <7500b927-4b05-0e65-0afc-4bf57770f15c@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Santosh P K Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:11:20 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP To: Greg Mirsky Cc: Dinesh Dutt , "Joel M. Halpern" , rtg-bfd WG , "T. Sridhar" , bfd-chairs@ietf.org, Martin Vigoureux , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008f5a2205931f6ea9" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:38:22 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 07:41:41 -0000 --0000000000008f5a2205931f6ea9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Greg, Please see inline reply tagged [SPK]. I have added text requested. Thanks Santosh P K On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 4:59 AM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Santosh, > thank you for your comments. Please find my notes in-lined and tagged > GIM>>. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:24 PM Santosh P K > wrote: > >> Greg, >> Thanks for updated version of document. Here are few comments on new >> draft. >> >> Section 4: >> Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC >> addresses. The MAC address MAY be configured, or it MAY be >> learned via a control plane protocol. The details of how the >> MAC address is obtained are outside the scope of this document. >> >> I think we may need to give background on why we are saying MAC address >> MUST not be one of tenant's MAC address. Like in this thread we have >> discussed one of the tenant could have borrowed the same VTEP mac address >> and we if we have to use BFD then we need to avoid that conflict to ensure >> BFD packets get observed in the VTEP itself. Should we add a section before >> 4 to set that context so that above text makes more sense in that context? >> > GIM>> Certainly. Please share the text you'd like to add. > [SPK] Proposed text for why we should not use VTEP MAX address as tenant MAC address. "In some scenarios tenant MAC is borrowed from VTEP MAC address. VXLAN BFD MUST terminate BFD session at VTEP and MUST not forward BFD packets to tenants. To terminate VXLAN BFD packets at VTEP, deployment MUST ensure that there are no tenant VM which barrows VTEP MAC address." >> >> IP header: >> Destination IP: IP address MUST NOT be of one of tenant's IP >> addresses. IP address MAY be selected from the range 127/8 for >> IPv4, for IPv6 - from the range 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. >> >> TTL: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD packet is not >> routed within the L3 underlay network. >> >> >> I think we have added some text to address Sridhar comments on why TTL >> MUST be 1 and dest IP address MUST be 127/8 range. I see that text is >> missing now. >> > GIM>> My apologies that I've missed to include the text from another > discussion thread. I believe the following would be complete: > TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD > packet is not routed within the Layer 3 underlay network. This > addresses the scenario when the inner IP destination address is > of VXLAN gateway and there is a router in underlay which > removes the VXLAN header, then it is possible to route the > packet as VXLAN gateway address is routable address. > [SPK] This text looks good. > >> Section 5.1: >> For such packets, the BFD session MUST be identified >> using the following three-tuples of fields of the inner header: the >> source IP, the destination IP, and the source UDP port number present >> in the IP header carried by the payload of the packet in VXLAN >> encapsulation. If BFD packet is received with non-zero Your >> Discriminator, then BFD session MUST be demultiplexed only with Your >> Discriminator as the key. >> >> Just with 3 tuple we will not be able to demux packet. We need to >> consider VNI as well if we have multiple BFD session between same pair of >> VTEP. >> > GIM>> This is one of comments from Carlos we need to address. Your comment > have helped me to form the question: > > What is the goal running multiple BFD sessions between the pair of VTEPs? > > [SPK] The goal of the multiple BFD session is to ensure check liveliness of VXLAN tunnel. There is already a good amount of debate on this topic that do we really need that? As per RFC 5884 we are running BFD per LSP and we might hit scale issues there too. I think it is up to operator to decide how they want to use multiple BFD session per VXLAN tunnel. It could be possible that BFD session with special VNI is run at aggressive interval where as MAY have multiple BFD sessions for different VNI at a sedate interval, for that matter they could be running in demand mode as well (run P/F sequence only when there is no data following for that VNI). As WG if we think running multiple BFD session make sense then we might need to add appropriate text. If the goal is to monitor per VNI, then the following text should describe > the demultiplexing of the initial BFD Control packet: > Demultiplexing of IP BFD packet has been defined in Section 3 of > [RFC5881]. Since multiple BFD sessions may be running between two > VTEPs, there needs to be a mechanism for demultiplexing received BFD > packets to the proper session. For demultiplexing packets with Your > Discriminator equal to 0, a BFD session MUST be identified using the > logical link over which the BFD Control packet is received. In the > case of VXLAN, the VNI number identifies that logical link. If BFD > packet is received with non-zero Your Discriminator, then BFD session > MUST be demultiplexed only with Your Discriminator as the key. > [SPK] I think this text for multiple BFD session between same pair of VTEPs for multiple VNI makes sense only if as WG we think that could be use case. Would there be need to run multiple BFD sessions with the same VNI number? > [SPK] IMHO we should not allow multiple BFD session for the same VNI. > > >> >> Thanks >> Santosh P K >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 4:27 AM Greg Mirsky wrote: >> >>> Dinesh, thank you for your help, much appreciated. >>> >>> Hi Joel and Sridhar, >>> could you please check if the updated text on the inner Ethernet frame >>> addressed your concern. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 2:25 PM Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>> >>>> Looks god to me Greg. Thank you for your hard work in this, >>>> >>>> Dinesh >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:25 AM Greg Mirsky >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Dinesh, Joel, Sridhar, et al., >>>>> much appreciate the help you've given me sharing your expertise. I >>>>> hope that the updates you will find in the attached diff and the working >>>>> copy of the draft be closer to the acceptable solution for VTEP-VTEP BFD. >>>>> Please note, that I'll shortly start a new discussion thread to address one >>>>> of Carlos's questions on the ambiguity of the text on multiple concurrent >>>>> sessions between the same pair of VTEPs. >>>>> Please review the changes to Sections 4 and 6 and share your feedback, >>>>> suggestions, and questions. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 5:56 PM Greg Mirsky >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>> thank you for your expedient detailed response. >>>>>>> I believe that the ability to run BFD session up to a tenant >>>>>>> (VTEP-VTEP-tenant or tenant-tenant) was never in jeopardy from this >>>>>>> specification. >>>>>>> I'm trying to provide precise specification on what can be used ad >>>>>>> the destination MAC and IP addresses in the inner frame/packet as I believe >>>>>>> that likely will help to avoid interoperability issues. >>>>>>> I'm interested to learn some more about the "martian checking" >>>>>>> function. As you know, martian addresses have been used as destination IP >>>>>>> address in LSP Ping and BFD over MPLS LSP and PW. I haven't heard that any >>>>>>> silicon feature caused problems for operators using these tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting. I didn't know this aspect of use with MPLS ping. Did >>>>>> those packets ever go through a firewall though? In any case, maybe suggest >>>>>> the use of those addresses with a statement that this is how LSP does it, >>>>>> but that other MAC/IP pairs are possible as long as the conditions of the >>>>>> endpoint owning the MAC/IP was honored. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:59 PM Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That we agree on the problem definition is the first step forward. >>>>>>>> Your original document had my cases covered and so I was surprised by the >>>>>>>> track this thread took. It doesn't matter, we're back on track. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My recommendation is to not worry about specifying the precise >>>>>>>> MAC/IP address used in the inner header. The addresses chosen MUST ensure >>>>>>>> that the packet is trapped to the control plane of the VTEP and not escape >>>>>>>> to the tenant if the BFD is to the VTEP. Any solution MUST also not >>>>>>>> preclude the use of the BFD by tenant systems for that VNI. There are many >>>>>>>> ways an implementer can choose to implement this. For example, the inner >>>>>>>> MAC address is whatever the VTEP implementer would return if ARP'd for the >>>>>>>> IP address used in the inner header in the given VNI. The implementer can >>>>>>>> pick a fixed MAC address, one that they own etc. Multiple BFD sessions can >>>>>>>> be run for testing path connectivity on more than one VNIs. Limits should >>>>>>>> be in place to avoid overwhelming the receiver with BFD messages (you had >>>>>>>> words about this in your currently published draft). If the VNI is >>>>>>>> irrelevant in the test i.e. only the VXLAN pipe at the VTEP is being >>>>>>>> tested. the user can use any VNI active on the VTEP on which the VTEP owns >>>>>>>> an IP address. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm concerned about the use of 127/8 address only because of >>>>>>>> firewalls or implementations that drop packets with these addresses as >>>>>>>> either the source or destination. For example, on many merchant silicon, I >>>>>>>> don't believe you can turn off martian checking and drops *only* for >>>>>>>> VXLAN-encapsulated BFD packets. I don't know what the Linux kernel does >>>>>>>> today on such packets, for example (or Hyper-V). I'd like a solution that >>>>>>>> doesn't demand additional or new chip functionality or require additional >>>>>>>> middle-box hole punch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why do you feel you MUST to specify the MAC/IP address on the inner >>>>>>>> packet? What am I missing here? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:04 PM Greg Mirsky >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>> what do you see as the way forward? I agree, that the proposed >>>>>>>>> text doesn't work for multi-VNI concurrent monitoring because these VNIs >>>>>>>>> are tenant's VNIs. And in that case, we need to specify another mechanism >>>>>>>>> to trap the BFD Control packet at VTEP. It seems that VTEP's Ethernet >>>>>>>>> address must be used as the destination MAC address in the inner Ethernet >>>>>>>>> frame. The destination IP address may be either VTEP's address of martian >>>>>>>>> (I do prefer martian). Let me give it try: >>>>>>>>> NEW TEXT: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To monitor continuity of the path between two VTEPs, an operator >>>>>>>>> MUST select a VNI number to be used as Management VNI. Management VNI >>>>>>>>> number MUST NOT be one of the tenant's VNIs to prevent sending VXLAN >>>>>>>>> packets received on Management VNI to a tenant. VNI number 1 is RECOMMENDED >>>>>>>>> as the default for Management VNI. [Ed.note: What we set the Destination >>>>>>>>> MAC to? Can it be invalid MAC that MUST be ignored on receipt?] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If an implementation supports concurrent monitoring of multiple >>>>>>>>> VNIs, then the value of VNI number MAY be one of tenant's VNIs. The >>>>>>>>> destination MAC address in the inner Ethernet frame encapsulating BFD >>>>>>>>> Control packet MUST be MAC associated with the remote VTEP. >>>>>>>>> The destination IP address of the inner IP packet MUST be selected >>>>>>>>> from the range 127/8 for IPv4, and for IPv6 from the range >>>>>>>>> 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. The TTL value in the inner IP header MUST be set >>>>>>>>> to 1. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 9:07 AM Dinesh Dutt >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your clarifications. I agree with your sentiment on >>>>>>>>>> why you're running BFD over VXLAN between VTEPs. I wasn't arguing against >>>>>>>>>> it at all. All I was saying was pointing to the limitations of the use of >>>>>>>>>> management VNI. I spoke to some operators who're running EVPN and mentioned >>>>>>>>>> the discussion on this thread. They concur that they're using specific VNIs >>>>>>>>>> to test connectivity over that VNI between VTEPs to ensure misconfiguration >>>>>>>>>> doesn't lead to blackholes. My statements are based in real world operator >>>>>>>>>> experience. And I was providing language that ensured packets didn't leak >>>>>>>>>> across to tenants when they were destined to VTEPs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 10:34 AM Greg Mirsky < >>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>>>> many thanks for your detailed updates on how some >>>>>>>>>>> implementations process VXLAN header and the inner Ethernet frame. These >>>>>>>>>>> are very helpful in achieving the workable solution for the problem at hand. >>>>>>>>>>> You've noted that a path between VTEPs may be monitored in the >>>>>>>>>>> underlay network by merely establishing a BFD session. That is true, but by >>>>>>>>>>> using BFD with VXLAN encapsulation between the pair of VTEPs we are >>>>>>>>>>> extending the OAM domain by including, to some extent, VXLAN forwarding >>>>>>>>>>> engine. Abstract in RFC 5880 defines the goal and the domain in which BFD >>>>>>>>>>> protocol can detect a fault as: >>>>>>>>>>> This document describes a protocol intended to detect faults >>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>> bidirectional path between two forwarding engines, including >>>>>>>>>>> interfaces, data link(s), and to the extent possible the >>>>>>>>>>> forwarding >>>>>>>>>>> engines themselves, with potentially very low latency. >>>>>>>>>>> Thus, BFD in the underlay will exercise a part of IP forwarding >>>>>>>>>>> engine while BFD with VXLAN encapsulation, ran between the same pair of >>>>>>>>>>> VTEPs, extends the OAM domain. At the same time, defining BFD between >>>>>>>>>>> tenant systems in outside the goal of this specification. But VXLAN BFD >>>>>>>>>>> session between VTEPs may be useful in monitoring e2e path between tenants, >>>>>>>>>>> as described in the update to -07: >>>>>>>>>>> At the same time, a service layer BFD session may be used >>>>>>>>>>> between the >>>>>>>>>>> tenants of VTEPs IP1 and IP2 to provide end-to-end fault >>>>>>>>>>> management. >>>>>>>>>>> In such case, for VTEPs BFD control packets of that session >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> indistinguishable from data packets. If end-to-end defect >>>>>>>>>>> detection >>>>>>>>>>> is realized as the set of concatenated OAM domains, e.g., >>>>>>>>>>> VM1-1 - IP1 >>>>>>>>>>> -- IP2 - VM2-1, then the BFD session over VXLAN between VTEPs >>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD >>>>>>>>>>> follow the procedures described in Section 6.8.17 [RFC5880]. >>>>>>>>>>> I've attached the current working version of the draft. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:43 PM Dinesh Dutt >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I mean is "How do you infer that it excludes the case I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> talking about?". >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:41 PM Dinesh Dutt >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The abstract reads this: " >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This document describes the use of the Bidirectional Forwarding >>>>>>>>>>>>> Detection (BFD) protocol in point-to-point Virtual eXtensible Local >>>>>>>>>>>>> Area Network (VXLAN) tunnels forming up an overlay network." >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you infer what you said? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:38 PM Joel M. Halpern < >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going by what the draft says its purpose is. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Dinesh) want >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the draft to fulfill a different purpose, then either ask the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chairs to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> take this draft back to the WG, or write a separate draft. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As currently written, the behavior Greg proposed meets the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does so in a way that is consistent with VxLAN. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/2/2019 8:30 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > What is the stated purpose of this BFD session? The VTEP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reachability is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > determined by the underlay, I don't need VXLAN-encaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>> packet for that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Do we agree? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > If I want to test the VXLAN encap/decap functionality >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alone, picking any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > single VNI maybe fine. But is this all any network operator >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants? Why? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > In what situations has this been a problem? I suspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operators also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > want to verify path continuity over a specific VNI. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> say this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > not defined by the document, I disagree because the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > talks about controlling the number of BFD sessions between >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the VTEPs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > (see section 3). More importantly, this is a real problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that operators >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > like to verify. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:08 PM Joel M. Halpern < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > What is special about the management VNI is precisely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it is NOT a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > tenant VNI. The VxLAN administration does know how it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allocates VNI to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > tenants, and which VNI it has allocated. In contrast, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it does not know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > which IP addresses or MAC adddresses teh tenant is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using or may plan >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to use. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On 8/2/2019 6:41 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > The assumption of an IP address within any VNI is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspect that way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > What's special about a single VNI, the management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VNI? The VTEP IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > address does not belong in reality in any VNI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:17 PM Joel M. Halpern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Your response seems to miss two points: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > First, the problem you describe is not what the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> document says >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > solving. To the degree it discusses it at all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the document >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > says " >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > most cases, a single BFD session is sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the given >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > VTEP to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > monitor the reachability of a remote VTEP, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regardless of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > number of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > VNIs in common. " >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Second, you assume the existence of an IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> address for a VTEP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > within a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > VNI. As with the MAC address, the VTEP does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have an IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > within the VNI. Some implementations may have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> created such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > thing, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the general construct, as defined to date, does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not support such. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > In short, you are requiring a behavior that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> violates the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > architectural >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > structure of overlay / underlay separation, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > usage. And you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > are doing so to support a use case that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> working group has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > indicated in the document as important. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > On 8/2/2019 5:01 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Joel, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > You understood correctly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > The VNIs may not share fate due to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> misconfiguration. And I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > strongly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > suspect someone will want to use BFD for that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > checking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > path continuity as stated by the draft. As >>>>>>>>>>>>>> long as there's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > valid IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > (because it's BFD) owned by the VTEP in that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VNI, you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > use BFD in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > that VNI. Thats all that you need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictate. That IP address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > has a MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address and you can use that on the inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame. That is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > all normal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VXLAN processing. The outer IP is always that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the VTEP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 11:03 AM Joel M. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halpern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > If I am reading your various emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > (and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > may have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > missed something) you are trying to use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > because you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > want >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > to be able to send these BFD packets over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary VNI to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > monitor the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VNI. That is not a requirement >>>>>>>>>>>>>> identified in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > document. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > It is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > even a problem I understand, since all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the VNI between an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > ingress and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > egress VTEP share fate. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > On 8/2/2019 1:44 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks for verifying this. On Linux >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and hardware >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > routers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > that I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > aware >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > of (Cisco circa 2012 and Cumulus), the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > reused >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > across the VNIs on the VTEP. Did you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> check on a non-VMW >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > device? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > more for my own curiosity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > To address the general case, can we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not define a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > well-known (or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > reserve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > one) unicast MAC address for use with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VTEP? If the MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > address is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > configurable in BFD command, this can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be moot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 10:27 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I have cross checked point raised >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > usage. It is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > possible that tenant could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using physical MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > address and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > when a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > packet comes with valid VNI with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > used by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > tenant then packet will be sent to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tenant. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > This rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > out the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > fact that we could use physical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC address as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > MAC to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > ensure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > packets get terminated at VTEP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:00 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Joel, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks for your inputs. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> checked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > implementation within >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Vmware. Perhaps I should have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been more clear >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > about MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > space while checking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> internally. I will cross >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > check again for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the same and get back on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:54 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AM Joel M. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Halpern >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmh@joelhalpern.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Sorry to ask a stupid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question. Whose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > implementation? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > The reason I ask is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as far as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > can tell, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > since the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > tenant does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > have any control access to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the VTEP, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > reason for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the VTEP to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > have a MAC address in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenant >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > space. Yes, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > device has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > a physical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > MAC address. But the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenant could well be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > using that MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > address. Yes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > they would be violating >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Ethernet spec. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > But the whole >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > point of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > segregation is not to care >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > issues. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On the other hand, if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell me that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the VMWare >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > implementation has an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Ethernet address that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of the tenant >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > space, well, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > they made up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > this particular game. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Yours, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Joel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > On 7/31/2019 1:44 PM, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Santosh P K wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > I have checked with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > in data >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > path. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > When we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > receive a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > packet with valid VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then lookup >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > for MAC will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > happen and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > it is VTEP own >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > MAC then it will be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trapped to control >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > plane for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > processing. I think we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > can have following >>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > 1. Optional managment >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > 2. Mandatory inner MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> set to VTEP mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > 3. Inner IP TTL set to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 to avoid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > forwarding of packet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > via inner IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > address. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Thansk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Santosh P K >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9:20 AM Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Mirsky >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > thank you for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consideration >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > proposal and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > questions. What >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > would you see as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scope of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > testing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > connectivity for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > specific VNI? If it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > tenant-to-tenant, then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VTEPs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > will treat these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > packets as regular >>>>>>>>>>>>>> user frames. More >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > likely, these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > could be Layer 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > OAM, e.g. CCM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> frames. The reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 127/8 for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > IPv4, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > IPv6 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > to safeguard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > from leaking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Ethernet frames >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with BFD Control >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > packet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > tenant. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > You've suggested >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using a MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > trap the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > control packet at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > VTEP. What that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> address could be? We >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > had proposed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > dedicated MAC and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VTEP's MAC and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > both >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > raised >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > concerns >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > among VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > experts. The idea >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > VNI may >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > be more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > acceptable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > based on its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarity to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > of using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Management VLAN. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2019 at 12:03 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Dutt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Hi Greg, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > As long as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inner MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > packet is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > trapped to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CPU, it should be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > fine for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > use as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > an inner MAC is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > it not? Stating >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > better than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > force a management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > VNI. What if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone wants >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to test >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > connectivity >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > on a specific >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > VNI? I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not pick a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > loopback IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > this since that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > address range >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is host/node local >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > only. Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > there a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > reason you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > not using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VTEP IP as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > inner IP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2019 at 5:48 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Greg Mirsky >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dear All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > thank you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for your comments, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > suggestions on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > this issue, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > challenging >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > for this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > specification. In the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > course of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our discussions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > we've agreed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > abandon the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > request to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allocate the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > dedicated MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > to be used as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> destination MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > address in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Ethernet frame. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Also, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier using VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 0 was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > changed from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > mandatory to one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> options an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > implementation may >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > offer to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > an operator. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > The most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > discussion was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > whether >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > VTEP's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > MAC address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > might be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> used as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > destination MAC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > in the inner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Ethernet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame. As I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > recall it, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > comments >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > from VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > experts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> equally split >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > with one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > for it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > and one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > against. Hence >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to propose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > text to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > resolve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the issue. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > idea is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> let an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > operator select >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Management >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > VNI and use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > that VNI in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > encapsulation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > of BFD >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Control packets: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > NEW TEXT: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > An >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator MUST >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > select a VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > number to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > be used as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Management VNI. VXLAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > packet for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Management VNI MUST NOT >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > be sent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a tenant. VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > number 1 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > RECOMMENDED as the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > default >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Management VNI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > With that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> new text, what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > can be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > value of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > the destination >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > MAC in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inner Ethernet? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > tend to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > that it can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and ignored by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > reciever VTEP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Also, if the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > trapping is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on VNI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > number, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > destination IP address >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inner IP packet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > can from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the range >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > 127/8 for IPv4, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > and for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IPv6 from the range >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > lastly, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> TTL to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > set to 1 (no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > change here). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Much >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > comments, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > questions, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Best >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --0000000000008f5a2205931f6ea9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please = see inline reply tagged [SPK]. I have added text requested.

<= /div>
Thanks
Santosh P K=C2=A0

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 4:59 AM= Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail= .com> wrote:
Hi Santosh,
thank you for your co= mments. Please find my notes in-lined and tagged GIM>>.
Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:24 PM S= antosh P K <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com> wrote:
Greg,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0T= hanks for updated version of document. Here are few comments on new draft.<= /div>

Section 4:
Destination MAC: This MUST NOT = be of one of tenant's MAC
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 addresses.=C2=A0 The MAC addr= ess MAY be configured, or it MAY be
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 learned via a control plane p= rotocol.=C2=A0 The details of how the
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAC address is obtained are o= utside the scope of this document.

= I think we may need to give background on why we are saying MAC address MUS= T not be one of tenant's MAC address. Like in this thread we have discu= ssed one of the tenant could have borrowed the same VTEP mac address and we= if we have to use BFD then we need to avoid that conflict to ensure BFD pa= ckets get observed in the VTEP itself. Should we add a section before 4 to = set that context so that above text makes more sense in that context?
GIM>> Certainly. Please share the text you&#= 39;d like to add.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
[SPK]=C2=A0 Proposed text for why we should not use VTEP MAX address as te= nant MAC address.

"In some scenarios tenant M= AC is borrowed from VTEP MAC address. VXLAN BFD MUST terminate BFD session = at VTEP and MUST not forward BFD packets to tenants. To terminate VXLAN BFD= packets at VTEP, deployment MUST ensure that there are no tenant VM which = barrows VTEP MAC address."



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0IP header:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Destination IP: IP= address MUST NOT be of one of tenant's IP
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 addresses.=C2=A0 IP address M= AY be selected from the range 127/8 for
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IPv4, for IPv6 - from the ran= ge 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104.

<= /div>
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TTL: MUST be set to 1 to ensure = that the BFD packet is not
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 routed within the L3 underlay= network.


I think we have added some text to address Sridhar comments on why TT= L MUST be 1 and dest IP address MUST be 127/8 range. I see that text is mis= sing now.
GIM>> My apologies that I'= ;ve missed to include the text from another discussion thread. I believe th= e following would be complete:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is not routed within the Layer 3 underlay ne= twork.=C2=A0 This
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses the scenar= io when the inner IP destination address is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0of VXLAN gateway and there is a router in underlay which
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0removes the VXLAN header, then it is possible to= route the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet as VXLAN =C2=A0gatew= ay address is routable address.
=C2=A0
[SPK] This text looks good.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Section 5.1:
For such packets, the BFD session MUST be identified
=C2=A0=C2=A0 using the following three-tuples of fields of the i= nner header: the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 source IP, the destination IP, and the source UDP p= ort number present
=C2=A0=C2=A0 in the IP header carried by the payload of the pack= et in VXLAN
=C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation.=C2=A0 If BFD packet is received with= non-zero Your
Discriminator, then BFD session MUST be demultiplexed only wi= th Your
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Discriminator as the key.

= Just with 3 tuple we will not be able to demux packet. We need to consider = VNI as well if we have multiple BFD session between same pair of VTEP.
GIM>> This is one of comments from Carlos w= e need to address. Your comment have helped me to form the question:
<= /div>
=
What is the goal running multiple BFD sessi= ons between the pair of VTEPs?
<= div>=C2=A0
[SPK] The goal of the multiple BFD session is to ensur= e check liveliness of VXLAN tunnel. There is already a good amount of debat= e on this topic that do we really need that? As per RFC 5884 we are running= BFD per LSP and we might hit scale issues there too. I think it is up to o= perator to decide how they want to use multiple BFD session per VXLAN tunne= l. It could be possible that BFD session with special VNI is run at aggress= ive interval where as MAY have multiple BFD sessions for different VNI at a= sedate interval, for that matter they could be running in demand mode as w= ell (run P/F sequence only when there is no data following for that VNI). A= s WG if we think running multiple BFD session make sense then we might need= to add appropriate text.

If the goal is to monitor per VNI, th= en the following text should describe the demultiplexing of the initial BFD= Control packet:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Demultiplexing of IP BFD packet has been = defined in Section 3 of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5881].=C2=A0 Since multiple BFD= sessions may be running between two
=C2=A0 =C2=A0VTEPs, there needs to = be a mechanism for demultiplexing received BFD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets to t= he proper session.=C2=A0 For demultiplexing packets with Your
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0Discriminator equal to 0, a BFD session MUST be identified using the
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0logical link over which the BFD Control packet is received.=C2= =A0 In the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0case of VXLAN, the VNI number identifies that lo= gical link.=C2=A0 If BFD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is received with non-zero Y= our Discriminator, then BFD session
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST be demultiplexed o= nly with Your Discriminator as the key.
=C2=A0=
[SPK]=C2=A0 I think this text for multiple BFD session between s= ame pair of VTEPs for multiple VNI makes sense only if as WG we think that = could be use case.=C2=A0

Would there be need to run multip= le BFD sessions with the same VNI number?

=
[SPK] IMHO we should not allow multiple BFD session for the same= VNI.=C2=A0
=C2=A0



Thanks
Santosh P K


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Fri, Aug= 9, 2019 at 4:27 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Dinesh, thank you= for your help, much appreciated.

Hi Joel and Sridhar,
could you please check if the updated text on the inner Ethernet f= rame addressed your concern.

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 2:25 PM Dinesh Dut= t <didutt@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Looks god to me Greg. Thank you for your hard work i= n this,

Dinesh

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:2= 5 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh, Joel, Sridhar, et al.= ,
much appreciate the help you've=C2=A0given me sharing your expert= ise. I hope that the updates you will find in the attached diff and the wor= king copy of the draft be closer to the acceptable solution for VTEP-VTEP B= FD. Please note, that I'll shortly start a new discussion thread to add= ress one of Carlos's questions on the ambiguity of the text on multiple= concurrent sessions between the same pair of VTEPs.
Please revie= w the changes to Sections 4 and 6 and share your feedback, suggestions, and= questions.

Regards,
Greg
On Mon, A= ug 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com> wrote:


On M= on, Aug 5, 2019 at 5:56 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh,=
thank you for your expedient detailed response.
I believe th= at the ability to run BFD session up to a tenant (VTEP-VTEP-tenant or tenan= t-tenant) was never in jeopardy from this specification.
I'm = trying to provide precise specification on what can be used ad the destinat= ion MAC and IP addresses in the inner frame/packet as I believe that likely= will help to avoid interoperability issues.
I'm interested t= o learn some more about the "martian checking" function. As you k= now, martian addresses have been used as destination IP address in LSP Ping= and BFD over MPLS LSP and PW. I haven't heard that any silicon feature= caused problems for operators using these tools.
<= div>
Interesting. I didn't know this aspect of use with M= PLS ping. Did those packets ever go through a firewall though? In any case,= maybe suggest the use of those addresses with a statement that this is how= LSP does it, but that other MAC/IP pairs are possible as long as the condi= tions of the endpoint owning the MAC/IP was honored.

Dinesh

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Aug 5, = 2019 at 3:59 PM Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Greg,

That we agree on the problem definition is the first step forward.= Your original document had my cases covered and so I was surprised by the = track this thread took. It doesn't matter, we're back on track.

My recommendation is to not worry about specifying th= e precise MAC/IP address used in the inner header. The addresses chosen MUS= T ensure that the packet is trapped to the control plane of the VTEP and no= t escape to the tenant if the BFD is to the VTEP. Any solution MUST also no= t preclude the use of the BFD by tenant systems for that VNI. There are man= y ways an implementer can choose to implement this. For example, the inner = MAC address is whatever the VTEP implementer would return if ARP'd for = the IP address used in the inner header in the given VNI. The implementer c= an pick a fixed MAC address, one that they own etc. Multiple BFD sessions c= an be run for testing path connectivity on more than one VNIs. Limits shoul= d be in place to avoid overwhelming the receiver with BFD messages (you had= words about this in your currently published draft).=C2=A0 If the VNI is i= rrelevant in the test i.e. only the VXLAN pipe at the VTEP is being tested.= the user can use any VNI active on the VTEP on which the VTEP owns an IP a= ddress.

I'm concerned about the use of 127/8 a= ddress only because of firewalls or implementations that drop packets with = these addresses as either the source or destination. For example, on many m= erchant silicon, I don't believe you can turn off martian checking and = drops *only* for VXLAN-encapsulated BFD packets. I don't know what the = Linux kernel does today on such packets, for example (or Hyper-V). I'd = like a solution that doesn't demand additional or new chip functionalit= y or require additional middle-box hole punch.

Why= do you feel you MUST to specify the MAC/IP address on the inner packet? Wh= at am I missing here?

Dinesh
On Mon, = Aug 5, 2019 at 3:04 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh,
what do you see as the way forward? I agree, that the pro= posed text doesn't work for multi-VNI concurrent monitoring because the= se VNIs are tenant's VNIs. And in that case, we need to specify another= mechanism to trap the BFD Control packet at VTEP. It seems that VTEP's= Ethernet address must be used as the destination MAC address in the inner = Ethernet frame. The destination IP address may be either VTEP's address= of martian (I do prefer martian). Let me give it=C2=A0 try:
NEW = TEXT:
To monitor continuity of the path = between two VTEPs, an operator MUST select a VNI number to be used as Manag= ement VNI. Management VNI number MUST NOT be one of the tenant's VNIs t= o prevent sending VXLAN packets received on Management VNI to a tenant. VNI= number 1 is RECOMMENDED as the default for Management VNI. [Ed.note: What = we set the Destination MAC to? Can it be invalid MAC that MUST be ignored o= n receipt?]
If an implement= ation supports concurrent monitoring of multiple VNIs, then the value of VN= I number MAY be one of tenant's VNIs. The destination MAC address in th= e inner Ethernet frame encapsulating BFD Control packet MUST be MAC associa= ted with the remote VTEP.=C2=A0
The destination IP address of the= inner IP packet MUST be selected from the range 127/8 for IPv4, and for IP= v6 from the range 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. The TTL value in the inner IP = header MUST be set to 1.

Regards,Greg=C2=A0

On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 9:07 AM Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com> wrote:
H= i Greg,

Thanks for your clarifications. I agree wi= th your sentiment on why you're running BFD over VXLAN between VTEPs. I= wasn't arguing against it at all. All I was saying was pointing to the= limitations of the use of management VNI. I spoke to some operators who= 9;re running EVPN and mentioned the discussion on this thread. They concur = that they're using specific VNIs to test connectivity over that VNI bet= ween VTEPs to ensure misconfiguration doesn't lead to blackholes. My st= atements are based in real world operator experience. And I was providing l= anguage that ensured packets didn't leak across to tenants when they we= re destined to VTEPs.

Dinesh

On Sat, Aug = 3, 2019 at 10:34 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dinesh,
ma= ny thanks for your detailed updates on how some implementations process VXL= AN header and the inner Ethernet frame. These are very helpful in achieving= the workable solution for the problem at hand.
You've noted = that a path between VTEPs may be monitored in the underlay network by merel= y establishing a BFD session. That is true, but by using BFD with VXLAN enc= apsulation between the pair of VTEPs we are extending the OAM domain by inc= luding, to some extent, VXLAN forwarding engine. Abstract in RFC 5880 defin= es the goal and the domain in which BFD protocol can detect a fault as:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a protocol intended to detect f= aults in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0bidirectional path between two forwarding engi= nes, including
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interfaces, data link(s), and to the extent = possible the forwarding
=C2=A0 =C2=A0engines themselves, with potentiall= y very low latency.=C2=A0
Thus, BFD in the underlay will exer= cise a part of IP forwarding engine while BFD with VXLAN encapsulation, ran= between the same pair of VTEPs, extends the OAM domain. At the same time, = defining BFD between tenant systems in outside the goal of this specificati= on. But VXLAN BFD session between VTEPs may be useful in monitoring e2e pat= h between tenants, as described in the update to -07:
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0At the same time, a service layer BFD session may be used between the=C2=A0 =C2=A0tenants of VTEPs IP1 and IP2 to provide end-to-end fault mana= gement.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In such case, for VTEPs BFD control packets of that= session are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0indistinguishable from data packets.=C2=A0 If = end-to-end defect detection
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is realized as the set of conca= tenated OAM domains, e.g., VM1-1 - IP1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0-- IP2 - VM2-1, then= the BFD session over VXLAN between VTEPs SHOULD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0follow the= procedures described in Section 6.8.17 [RFC5880].
I've a= ttached the current working version of the draft.

= Regards,
Greg


On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:43 PM = Dinesh Dutt <didut= t@gmail.com> wrote:
What I mean is "How do you infer that= it excludes the case I'm talking about?".

Dinesh

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:41 PM Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com> w= rote:
The abstract reads this: "
This document describes th=
e use of the Bidirectional Forwarding
   Detection (BFD) protocol in point-to-point Virtual eXtensible Local
   Area Network (VXLAN) tunnels forming up an overlay network."
How do you infer w=
hat you said?

Dinesh

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:38 PM Joel M. Halp= ern <jmh@joelha= lpern.com> wrote:
I am going by what the draft says its purpose is.=C2=A0 If you (= Dinesh) want
the draft to fulfill a different purpose, then either ask the chairs to take this draft back to the WG, or write a separate draft.
As currently written, the behavior Greg proposed meets the needs, and
does so in a way that is consistent with VxLAN.

Yours,
Joel

On 8/2/2019 8:30 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote:
> What is the stated purpose of this BFD session? The VTEP reachability = is
> determined by the underlay, I don't need VXLAN-encaped packet for = that.
> Do we agree?
>
> If I want to test the VXLAN encap/decap functionality alone, picking a= ny
> single VNI maybe fine. But is this all any network operator wants? Why= ?
> In what situations has this been a problem? I suspect operators also <= br> > want to verify path continuity over a specific VNI. If you say this is=
> not defined by the document, I disagree because the current version > talks about controlling the number of BFD sessions between the VTEPs <= br> > (see section 3). More importantly, this is a real problem that operato= rs
> like to verify.
>
> Dinesh
>
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:08 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
> <mailto:jm= h@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0What is special about the management VNI is precise= ly that it is NOT a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant VNI.=C2=A0 The VxLAN administration does kno= w how it allocates VNI to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenants, and which VNI it has allocated.=C2=A0 In c= ontrast, it does not know
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0which IP addresses or MAC adddresses teh tenant is = using or may plan
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to use.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 8/2/2019 6:41 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The assumption of an IP address within any VN= I is suspect that way.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > What's special about a single VNI, the ma= nagement VNI? The VTEP IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > address does not belong in reality in any VNI= .
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:17 PM Joel M. Halper= n
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>= wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Your response seems to mis= s two points:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0First, the problem you des= cribe is not what the document says
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0solving.=C2=A0 To the degr= ee it discusses it at all, the document
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0says "
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0most cases, a single BFD s= ession is sufficient for the given
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VTEP to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0monitor the reachability o= f a remote VTEP, regardless of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0number of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNIs in common. "
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Second, you assume the exi= stence of an IP address for a VTEP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0within a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI.=C2=A0 As with the MAC= address, the VTEP does not have an IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0within the VNI.=C2=A0 Some= implementations may have created such a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thing,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the general construct, as = defined to date, does not support such.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In short, you are requirin= g a behavior that violates the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0architectural
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0structure of overlay / und= erlay separation, and common
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0usage.=C2=A0 And you
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0are doing so to support a = use case that the working group has not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicated in the document = as important.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 8/2/2019 5:01 PM, Dines= h Dutt wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Joel,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > You understood corre= ctly.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The VNIs may not sha= re fate due to misconfiguration. And I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0strongly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > suspect someone will= want to use BFD for that because its
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0about
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0checking
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > path continuity as s= tated by the draft. As long as there's a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0valid IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > (because it's BF= D) owned by the VTEP in that VNI, you can
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0use BFD in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > that VNI. Thats all = that you need to dictate.=C2=A0 That IP address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0has a MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > address and you can = use that on the inner frame. That is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0all normal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VXLAN processing. Th= e outer IP is always that of the VTEP.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 = at 11:03 AM Joel M. Halpern
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com= >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com &= lt;mailto:jmh@joel= halpern.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>> w= rote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I= f I am reading your various emails correctly Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(and I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0may have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0m= issed something) you are trying to use the MAC address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0because you
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0w= ant
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= o be able to send these BFD packets over arbitrary VNI to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0monitor the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0V= NI.=C2=A0 That is not a requirement identified in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It is not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e= ven a problem I understand, since all the VNI between an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ingress and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e= gress VTEP share fate.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Y= ours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0J= oel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0O= n 8/2/2019 1:44 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > Thanks for verifying this. On Linux and hardware
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0routers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that I'm
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ware
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > of (Cisco circa 2012 and Cumulus), the physical MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= eused
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > across the VNIs on the VTEP. Did you check on a non-VMW
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0device?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0T= his is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > more for my own curiosity.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > To address the general case, can we not define a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0well-known (or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= eserve
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > one) unicast MAC address for use with VTEP? If the MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > configurable in BFD command, this can be moot.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 10:27 AM Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = > <= santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>>&= gt; wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have cross checked point raised about MAC address=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0usage. It is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0possible that tenant could be using physical MAC >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0w= hen a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet comes with valid VNI with a MAC address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0being
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0u= sed by
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant then packet will be sent to that tenant.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This rules
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o= ut the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fact that we could use physical MAC address as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0inner
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e= nsure
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packets get terminated at VTEP itself.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:00 AM Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail= .com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>>>&= gt;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for your inputs.= I checked
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation within
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Vmware. Perhaps I should have been mo= re clear
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0about MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0space while checking internally. I wi= ll cross
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0check again for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the same and get back on this list. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:54 AM Joel= M.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Halpern
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailt= o:jmh@joelhalpern.= com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:jmh@joel= halpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailt= o:jmh@joelhalpern.= com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>>&g= t; wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sorry to ask a stupid q= uestion.=C2=A0 Whose
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The reason I ask is tha= t as far as I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0can tell,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant does not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have any control access= to the VTEP,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0there is no
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= eason for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the VTEP to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have a MAC address in t= he tenant
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0space.=C2=A0 Yes, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0d= evice has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a physical
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC address.=C2=A0 But = the tenant could well be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0using that MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address.=C2=A0 Yes,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0they would be violating= the Ethernet spec.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0But the whole
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0point of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0segregation is not to c= are about such
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0issues.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On the other hand, if y= ou tell me that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the VMWare
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation has an >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet address that i= s part of the tenant
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0space, well,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0they made up
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this particular game. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 7/31/2019 1:44 PM, S= antosh P K wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I have checked wi= th implementation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0path.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0W= hen we
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0receive a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > packet with valid= VNI then lookup
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for MAC will
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= appen and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it is VTEP own
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > MAC then it will = be trapped to control
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0plane for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0processing. I think we<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > can have followin= g options
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 1. Optional manag= ment VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 2. Mandatory inne= r MAC set to VTEP mac
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 3. Inner IP TTL s= et to 1 to avoid
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0forwarding of packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0via inner IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > address.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Thoughts?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Thansk
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Santosh P K
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Wed, Jul 31, 2= 019 at 9:20 AM Greg
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mirsky
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>&g= t;>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com<= /a>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Hi Dinesh,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0thank you for your consideration
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0p= roposal and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0questions. What
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0would you see as the scope of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0testing the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0connectivity for the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0specific VNI? If it is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tenant-to-tenant, then
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0V= TEPs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0will treat these
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0packets as regular user frames. More
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0likely, these
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0could be Layer 2
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0OAM, e.g. CCM frames. The reason
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to use
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0127/8 for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv4, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A00:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to safeguard
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0from leaking
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Ethernet frames with BFD Control
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= enant.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0You've suggested using a MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trap the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0control packet at
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0VTEP. What that address could be? We
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0had proposed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0using the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0dedicated MAC and VTEP's MAC and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0both
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0raised
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= oncerns
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0among VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0experts. The idea of using
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI may
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b= e more
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0acceptable
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0based on its similarity to the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0practice
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of using
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VLAN.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Regards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Greg
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:03 PM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dutt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<didutt@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com> <mailto:didutt@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com><= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:didutt@gmai= l.com <mailto:= didutt@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com><= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0<mailto:didutt@= gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>&= gt;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:didutt@gmai= l.com <mailto:= didutt@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com><= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:didutt@gmai= l.com <mailto:= didutt@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Greg,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As long as the inner MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0such
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= hat the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trapped to the CPU, it should be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0u= se as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an inner MAC is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it not? Stating that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0better than
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trying to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0force a management
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI. What if someone wants
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to test
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= onnectivity
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0on a specific
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI? I would not pick a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0loopback IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this since that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address range is host/node local
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0only. Is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0t= here a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reason you're
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not using the VTEP IP as the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0inner IP
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress ?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dinesh
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 5:48 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg Mirsky
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.c= om
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <m= ailto:gregimirsk= y@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&= lt;mailto:gregim= irsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dear All,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thank you for your comments,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0s= uggestions on
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this issue,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0probably the most
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0challenging
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specification. In the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0course of our discussions,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0we've agreed to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0abandon the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0request to allocate the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dedicated MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to be used as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the destination MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0address in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the inner
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet frame.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, earlier using VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 was
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0changed from
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mandatory to one
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the options an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation may
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o= ffer to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an operator.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The most recent
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion was
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whether
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0V= TEP's
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC address
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0might be used as the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0destination MAC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= ddress
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the inner
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet frame. As I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0recall it, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= omments
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0from VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0experts equally split
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0with one
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for it
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a= nd one
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0against. Hence
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I would like to propose
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a new
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0text to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0r= esolve
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the issue. The
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0idea is to let an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0operator select
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0M= anagement
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0VNI and use
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that VNI in VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of BFD
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Control packets:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NEW TEXT:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An operator MUST
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0select a VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0n= umber to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be used as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VNI. VXLAN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VNI MUST NOT=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be sent to a tenant. VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0number 1 is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RECOMMENDED as the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management VNI.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0With that new text, what
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0can be the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0v= alue of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the destination
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MAC in the inner Ethernet? I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tend to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b= elieve
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that it can be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0anything and ignored by the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reciever VTEP.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, if the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trapping is based on VNI
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0number, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0destination IP address<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the inner IP packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0can from
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the range
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0127/8 for IPv4,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and for IPv6 from the range
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/1= 04. And
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0lastly, the TTL to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0set to 1 (no
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c= hange here).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Much appreciate your
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0comments,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0q= uestions, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0suggestions.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best regards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
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Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:48:51 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Jeffrey Haas CC: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Index: AQHVXPUyTxWyJBtWsEOnJ4ETycFi16cjIc8AgAXoLNCAAJsYAIAHXvgQgACtbYCAAF1t0IAAU3wAgAAHCHCAAKTcgIAIh9iw Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:48:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9ECC2E5C-E87E-4859-9DA8-E8E9403DF759@cisco.com> <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ginsberg@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [128.107.241.175] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a0ffe1bf-d3b6-419f-d236-08d741415ed4 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600167)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a0ffe1bf-d3b6-419f-d236-08d741415ed4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Sep 2019 22:48:51.4750 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vXkznW1TLLwpNslTMahh8yhk3fxKU+HVFOcJa2IVBEkQAOB/lduEu8ZEF2vHcpioiIvQV7ZSkbzIh48vIzKzxQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3718 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.16, xch-aln-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:48:59 -0000 Jeff - A few more thoughts - maybe these are more helpful than my previous comment= s - maybe not. I am sure you will let me know. Protocol extensions allowing negotiation and/or advertisement of support fo= r larger PDUs may well be useful - but let's agree that it is desirable to = deploy this without protocol extensions just to keep the interoperability b= ar low. My primary angst is with the following paragraph in Section 3: "It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can function with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size may have impact on BFD scaling. Such systems may support a lower transmission interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in large packet mode. This interval may depend on the size of the transport PDU." Given long experience that CPU use correlates more highly with number of pa= ckets than with number of bytes, the first sentence would seem to be weakly= supported. Given the previously mentioned concerns about detection time, the second se= ntence seems to compromise the value of the extension. What might be better? 1)Some statement that MTU isn't necessarily a consistent value for all syst= ems connected to an interface - which can impact the results when large BFD= packets are used. Implementations might then want to consider supporting "= bfd-mtu" configuration and/or iterating across a range of packet sizes to d= etermine what works and what doesn't. 2)Use of both padded and unpadded packets in combination with draft-ietf-bf= d-stability to determine whether a BFD failure is due to padding or a gener= ic forwarding failure. Either of these suggestions are really "diagnostic modes" which may help di= agnose a problem but aren't meant to be used continuously as part of fast f= ailure detection. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Haas > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 5:17 AM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Cc: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; Reshad Rahman > (rrahman) ; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets >=20 > Les, >=20 >=20 > > On Sep 18, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > > > First I would like to reemphasize that I support the draft - so we aren= 't on > opposite sides here. It is just that Last Call seems premature. >=20 > The purpose of WGLC is to shake out final comments when things have > otherwise stalled. If it's not ready, we're not bothered by that. :-) >=20 > That said, we need to match concerns with something actionable. That's > what I'm hunting for. >=20 > > As for the comparison with authentication... > > > > Authentication added new functionality which cost CPU time. The tradeof= f > there was clear - performance/scale vs security. But there was no concern > that the addition of the authentication bytes in and of itself might intr= oduce a > problem. >=20 > Most of your commentary was focused around the impact on detection time, > hence the response you got regarding other features that have similar > impact. >=20 > So, if we've moved on from detection time impact of features to other > issues, that's fine. >=20 > > > > Large packets introduces MTU sized packets - which in and of itself is > unlikely to cause a performance issue. But, having spent a fair number of > hours debugging MTU related issues of various flavors, I do think it is l= ikely to > expose bugs in packet processing related to size. It shouldn't - in a per= fect > world - but what chips/software does with sub-MTU sized packets doesn't > always translate to MTU size packets. And since the definition of what MT= U is > isn't consistent across vendors (let alone even within a single vendor's > products) there are many ways to screw up configuration here. Throw in al= l > the various flavors of encaps...I think we can expect deployment issues -= and > maybe bugs as well. >=20 > I think Albert is happy to see this text. :-) >=20 > The primary purpose of this feature is to shake loose issues related to M= TU > sized packets and try to remove such paths from service when we can't > forward through them. The path detection at speed is a general good fit = for > BFD. >=20 > What I'm concerned about is you're trying to point out "when there are > issues, this doesn't help - and at best exacerbates them". If so... well= , this > feature isn't intended to be a debugging layer for those sort of issues. > However, since BFD is riding on top of various transports to do this job,= if the > encapsulation can carry additional information that permits such debuggin= g > information, we're amenable to discussing what to do with it. >=20 > -- Jeff From nobody Wed Sep 25 15:34:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17ABA120024; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:40:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48cD48YnI+PC9wPjwvZGl2Pg== --=====_003_next=====-- --=====_002_next=====-- --=====_001_next=====-- From nobody Wed Sep 25 15:34:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0D81200B9; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5XIkLAmREoiS; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54550120024; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46dN7W1blfzrl08; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:59:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1569380359; bh=yll0ozz3D+RGT0BmQaKD08ROebIuufs12ejw5cpp7Qw=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Lpf616zsBL1SGmNkDn1/bT1dw2ILDbX4FRvHd+PcSZkcPxBcZU/iWLCAuFDyJ4Vs6 c4Kw4o4GVXR6WH3y7d8BCUKqyQLVOEtIMrx8J0oVfaK/c6JOP5Agw/CShXurk0OoQU vo5OQR2HfR1F2fXdymI0XSptTjP0i7qePG/XbbLU= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [172.20.7.244] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46dN7T5dPkzFqMk; Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP To: xiao.min2@zte.com.cn Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org, tsridhar@vmware.com, bfd-chairs@ietf.org, nvo3@ietf.org References: <201909251039413767352@zte.com.cn> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <424bb1af-1ae9-5d60-c07c-3e53917821ae@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:59:13 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201909251039413767352@zte.com.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:34:44 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 02:59:24 -0000 As far as I can tell, the current document we have in front of us is explicit that the messages are originated and terminated at the VNI. If you want some other behavior, then we need a document that describes that behaviors. Yours, Joel On 9/24/2019 10:39 PM, xiao.min2@zte.com.cn wrote: > Hi Santosh, > > > With regard to the question whether we should allow multiple BFD > sessions for the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more > explanation as follows. > > Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of RFC8014 (An Architecture for > Data-Center Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)). > > | Data Center Network (IP) | > | | > +-----------------------------------------+ > | | > | Tunnel Overlay | > +------------+---------+ +---------+------------+ > | +----------+-------+ | | +-------+----------+ | > | | Overlay Module | | | | Overlay Module | | > | +---------+--------+ | | +---------+--------+ | > | | | | | | > NVE1 | | | | | | NVE2 > | +--------+-------+ | | +--------+-------+ | > | |VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | | | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | > | +-+-----+----+---+ | | +-+-----+-----+--+ | > |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3 | |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3| > +----+-----+----+------+ +----+-----+-----+-----+ > | | | | | | > | | | | | | > | | | | | | > -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+------- > | | | Tenant | | | > TSI1 | TSI2| | TSI3 TSI1| TSI2| |TSI3 > +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > |TS1| |TS2| |TS3| |TS4| |TS5| |TS6| > +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > > To my understanding, the BFD sessions between NVE1 and NVE2 are actually > initiated and terminated at VAP of NVE. > > If the network operator want to set up one BFD session between VAP1 of > NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD session between VAP3 > of NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the same > VNI1, I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we should allow it. > > > Of course, in RFC8014 it also says: > > "Note that two different Tenant Systems (and TSIs) attached to a common NVE can share a VAP (e.g., TS1 and TS2 in Figure 2) so long as they connect to the same Virtual Network." > > Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same > Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 > should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to > NVO3 WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments. > > > Best Regards, > > Xiao Min > > 原始邮件 > *发件人：*SantoshPK > *收件人：*Greg Mirsky ; > *抄送人：*draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org > ;Dinesh Dutt ;rtg-bfd > WG ;Joel M. Halpern ;T. Sridhar > ;bfd-chairs@ietf.org ; > *日 期 ：*2019年09月23日 05:39 > *主 题 ：**Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP* > Greg, >     Please see inline reply tagged [SPK]. I have added text requested. > > Thanks > Santosh P K > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 4:59 AM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > > Hi Santosh, > thank you for your comments. Please find my notes in-lined and > tagged GIM>>. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:24 PM Santosh P K > > > wrote: > > Greg, >    Thanks for updated version of document. Here are few > comments on new draft. > > Section 4: > Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC >          addresses.  The MAC address MAY be configured, or it > MAY be >          learned via a control plane protocol.  The details of > how the >          MAC address is obtained are outside the scope of this > document. > > I think we may need to give background on why we are saying MAC > address MUST not be one of tenant's MAC address. Like in this > thread we have discussed one of the tenant could have borrowed > the same VTEP mac address and we if we have to use BFD then we > need to avoid that conflict to ensure BFD packets get observed > in the VTEP itself. Should we add a section before 4 to set that > context so that above text makes more sense in that context? > > GIM>> Certainly. Please share the text you'd like to add. > > [SPK]  Proposed text for why we should not use VTEP MAX address as > tenant MAC address. > > "In some scenarios tenant MAC is borrowed from VTEP MAC address. VXLAN > BFD MUST terminate BFD session at VTEP and MUST not forward BFD packets > to tenants. To terminate VXLAN BFD packets at VTEP, deployment MUST > ensure that there are no tenant VM which barrows VTEP MAC address." > > > >    IP header: >          Destination IP: IP address MUST NOT be of one of > tenant's IP >          addresses.  IP address MAY be selected from the range > 127/8 for >          IPv4, for IPv6 - from the range 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. > >          TTL: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD packet is not >          routed within the L3 underlay network. > > > I think we have added some text to address Sridhar comments on > why TTL MUST be 1 and dest IP address MUST be 127/8 range. I see > that text is missing now. > > GIM>> My apologies that I've missed to include the text from another > discussion thread. I believe the following would be complete: >           TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 1 to ensure that the BFD >          packet is not routed within the Layer 3 underlay network. > This >          addresses the scenario when the inner IP destination > address is >          of VXLAN gateway and there is a router in underlay which >          removes the VXLAN header, then it is possible to route the >          packet as VXLAN  gateway address is routable address. > > [SPK] This text looks good. > > > Section 5.1: > For such packets, the BFD session MUST be identified >    using the following three-tuples of fields of the inner > header: the >    source IP, the destination IP, and the source UDP port > number present >    in the IP header carried by the payload of the packet in VXLAN >    encapsulation.  If BFD packet is received with non-zero Your > Discriminator, then BFD session MUST be demultiplexed only with Your >    Discriminator as the key. > > Just with 3 tuple we will not be able to demux packet. We need > to consider VNI as well if we have multiple BFD session between > same pair of VTEP. > > GIM>> This is one of comments from Carlos we need to address. Your > comment have helped me to form the question: > > What is the goal running multiple BFD sessions between the pair > of VTEPs? > > [SPK] The goal of the multiple BFD session is to ensure check liveliness > of VXLAN tunnel. There is already a good amount of debate on this topic > that do we really need that? As per RFC 5884 we are running BFD per LSP > and we might hit scale issues there too. I think it is up to operator to > decide how they want to use multiple BFD session per VXLAN tunnel. It > could be possible that BFD session with special VNI is run at aggressive > interval where as MAY have multiple BFD sessions for different VNI at a > sedate interval, for that matter they could be running in demand mode as > well (run P/F sequence only when there is no data following for that > VNI). As WG if we think running multiple BFD session make sense then we > might need to add appropriate text. > > If the goal is to monitor per VNI, then the following text should > describe the demultiplexing of the initial BFD Control packet: >    Demultiplexing of IP BFD packet has been defined in Section 3 of >    [RFC5881].  Since multiple BFD sessions may be running between two >    VTEPs, there needs to be a mechanism for demultiplexing received BFD >    packets to the proper session.  For demultiplexing packets with Your >    Discriminator equal to 0, a BFD session MUST be identified using the >    logical link over which the BFD Control packet is received.  In the >    case of VXLAN, the VNI number identifies that logical link.  If BFD >    packet is received with non-zero Your Discriminator, then BFD > session >    MUST be demultiplexed only with Your Discriminator as the key. > > [SPK]  I think this text for multiple BFD session between same pair of > VTEPs for multiple VNI makes sense only if as WG we think that could be > use case. > > Would there be need to run multiple BFD sessions with the same VNI > number? > > > [SPK] IMHO we should not allow multiple BFD session for the same VNI. > > > > > Thanks > Santosh P K > > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 4:27 AM Greg Mirsky > > wrote: > > Dinesh, thank you for your help, much appreciated. > Hi Joel and Sridhar, > could you please check if the updated text on the inner > Ethernet frame addressed your concern. > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 2:25 PM Dinesh Dutt > wrote: > > Looks god to me Greg. Thank you for your hard work in this, > > Dinesh > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:25 AM Greg Mirsky > > > wrote: > > Hi Dinesh, Joel, Sridhar, et al., > much appreciate the help you've given me sharing > your expertise. I hope that the updates you will > find in the attached diff and the working copy of > the draft be closer to the acceptable solution for > VTEP-VTEP BFD. Please note, that I'll shortly start > a new discussion thread to address one of Carlos's > questions on the ambiguity of the text on multiple > concurrent sessions between the same pair of VTEPs. > Please review the changes to Sections 4 and 6 and > share your feedback, suggestions, and questions. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 6:03 PM Dinesh Dutt > > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 5:56 PM Greg Mirsky > > wrote: > > Hi Dinesh, > thank you for your expedient detailed response. > I believe that the ability to run BFD > session up to a tenant (VTEP-VTEP-tenant or > tenant-tenant) was never in jeopardy from > this specification. > I'm trying to provide precise specification > on what can be used ad the destination MAC > and IP addresses in the inner frame/packet > as I believe that likely will help to avoid > interoperability issues. > I'm interested to learn some more about the > "martian checking" function. As you know, > martian addresses have been used as > destination IP address in LSP Ping and BFD > over MPLS LSP and PW. I haven't heard that > any silicon feature caused problems for > operators using these tools. > > > Interesting. I didn't know this aspect of use > with MPLS ping. Did those packets ever go > through a firewall though? In any case, maybe > suggest the use of those addresses with a > statement that this is how LSP does it, but that > other MAC/IP pairs are possible as long as the > conditions of the endpoint owning the MAC/IP was > honored. > > Dinesh > > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:59 PM Dinesh Dutt > > > wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > That we agree on the problem definition > is the first step forward. Your original > document had my cases covered and so I > was surprised by the track this thread > took. It doesn't matter, we're back on > track. > > My recommendation is to not worry about > specifying the precise MAC/IP address > used in the inner header. The addresses > chosen MUST ensure that the packet is > trapped to the control plane of the VTEP > and not escape to the tenant if the BFD > is to the VTEP. Any solution MUST also > not preclude the use of the BFD by > tenant systems for that VNI. There are > many ways an implementer can choose to > implement this. For example, the inner > MAC address is whatever the VTEP > implementer would return if ARP'd for > the IP address used in the inner header > in the given VNI. The implementer can > pick a fixed MAC address, one that they > own etc. Multiple BFD sessions can be > run for testing path connectivity on > more than one VNIs. Limits should be in > place to avoid overwhelming the receiver > with BFD messages (you had words about > this in your currently published > draft).  If the VNI is irrelevant in the > test i.e. only the VXLAN pipe at the > VTEP is being tested. the user can use > any VNI active on the VTEP on which the > VTEP owns an IP address. > > I'm concerned about the use of 127/8 > address only because of firewalls or > implementations that drop packets with > these addresses as either the source or > destination. For example, on many > merchant silicon, I don't believe you > can turn off martian checking and drops > *only* for VXLAN-encapsulated BFD > packets. I don't know what the Linux > kernel does today on such packets, for > example (or Hyper-V). I'd like a > solution that doesn't demand additional > or new chip functionality or require > additional middle-box hole punch. > > Why do you feel you MUST to specify the > MAC/IP address on the inner packet? What > am I missing here? > > Dinesh > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:04 PM Greg > Mirsky > wrote: > > Hi Dinesh, > what do you see as the way forward? > I agree, that the proposed text > doesn't work for multi-VNI > concurrent monitoring because these > VNIs are tenant's VNIs. And in that > case, we need to specify another > mechanism to trap the BFD Control > packet at VTEP. It seems that VTEP's > Ethernet address must be used as the > destination MAC address in the inner > Ethernet frame. The destination IP > address may be either VTEP's address > of martian (I do prefer martian). > Let me give it  try: > NEW TEXT: > > To monitor continuity of the > path between two VTEPs, an > operator MUST select a VNI > number to be used as Management > VNI. Management VNI number MUST > NOT be one of the tenant's VNIs > to prevent sending VXLAN packets > received on Management VNI to a > tenant. VNI number 1 is > RECOMMENDED as the default for > Management VNI. [Ed.note: What > we set the Destination MAC to? > Can it be invalid MAC that MUST > be ignored on receipt?] > > If an implementation supports > concurrent monitoring of > multiple VNIs, then the value of > VNI number MAY be one of > tenant's VNIs. The destination > MAC address in the inner > Ethernet frame encapsulating BFD > Control packet MUST be MAC > associated with the remote VTEP. > The destination IP address of > the inner IP packet MUST be > selected from the range 127/8 > for IPv4, and for IPv6 from the > range 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. > The TTL value in the inner IP > header MUST be set to 1. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 9:07 AM > Dinesh Dutt > wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Thanks for your clarifications. > I agree with your sentiment on > why you're running BFD over > VXLAN between VTEPs. I wasn't > arguing against it at all. All I > was saying was pointing to the > limitations of the use of > management VNI. I spoke to some > operators who're running EVPN > and mentioned the discussion on > this thread. They concur that > they're using specific VNIs to > test connectivity over that VNI > between VTEPs to ensure > misconfiguration doesn't lead to > blackholes. My statements are > based in real world operator > experience. And I was providing > language that ensured packets > didn't leak across to tenants > when they were destined to VTEPs. > > Dinesh > > On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 10:34 AM > Greg Mirsky > > > wrote: > > Hi Dinesh, > many thanks for your > detailed updates on how some > implementations process > VXLAN header and the inner > Ethernet frame. These are > very helpful in achieving > the workable solution for > the problem at hand. > You've noted that a path > between VTEPs may be > monitored in the underlay > network by merely > establishing a BFD session. > That is true, but by using > BFD with VXLAN encapsulation > between the pair of VTEPs we > are extending the OAM domain > by including, to some > extent, VXLAN forwarding > engine. Abstract in RFC 5880 > defines the goal and the > domain in which BFD protocol > can detect a fault as: >    This document describes > a protocol intended to > detect faults in the >    bidirectional path > between two forwarding > engines, including >    interfaces, data > link(s), and to the extent > possible the forwarding >    engines themselves, with > potentially very low latency. > Thus, BFD in the underlay > will exercise a part of IP > forwarding engine while BFD > with VXLAN encapsulation, > ran between the same pair of > VTEPs, extends the OAM > domain. At the same time, > defining BFD between tenant > systems in outside the goal > of this specification. But > VXLAN BFD session between > VTEPs may be useful in > monitoring e2e path between > tenants, as described in the > update to -07: >    At the same time, a > service layer BFD session > may be used between the >    tenants of VTEPs IP1 and > IP2 to provide end-to-end > fault management. >    In such case, for VTEPs > BFD control packets of that > session are >    indistinguishable from > data packets.  If end-to-end > defect detection >    is realized as the set > of concatenated OAM domains, > e.g., VM1-1 - IP1 >    -- IP2 - VM2-1, then the > BFD session over VXLAN > between VTEPs SHOULD >    follow the procedures > described in Section 6.8.17 > [RFC5880]. > I've attached the current > working version of the draft. > > Regards, > Greg > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:43 > PM Dinesh Dutt > > > wrote: > > What I mean is "How do > you infer that it > excludes the case I'm > talking about?". > > Dinesh > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at > 5:41 PM Dinesh Dutt > > > wrote: > > The abstract reads > this: " > > This document describes the use of the Bidirectional Forwarding > Detection (BFD) protocol in point-to-point Virtual eXtensible Local > Area Network (VXLAN) tunnels forming up an overlay network." > > How do you infer > what you said? > > Dinesh > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 > at 5:38 PM Joel M. > Halpern > > > wrote: > > I am going by > what the draft > says its purpose > is.  If you > (Dinesh) want > the draft to > fulfill a > different > purpose, then > either ask the > chairs to > take this draft > back to the WG, > or write a > separate draft. > As currently > written, the > behavior Greg > proposed meets > the needs, and > does so in a way > that is > consistent with > VxLAN. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 8/2/2019 8:30 > PM, Dinesh Dutt > wrote: > > What is the > stated purpose > of this BFD > session? The > VTEP > reachability is > > determined by > the underlay, I > don't need > VXLAN-encaped > packet for that. > > Do we agree? > > > > If I want to > test the VXLAN > encap/decap > functionality > alone, picking any > > single VNI > maybe fine. But > is this all any > network operator > wants? Why? > > In what > situations has > this been a > problem? I > suspect > operators also > > want to > verify path > continuity over > a specific VNI. > If you say this is > > not defined > by the document, > I disagree > because the > current version > > talks about > controlling the > number of BFD > sessions between > the VTEPs > > (see section > 3). More > importantly, > this is a real > problem that > operators > > like to verify. > > > > Dinesh > > > > On Fri, Aug > 2, 2019 at 5:08 > PM Joel M. > Halpern > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > >     What is > special about > the management > VNI is precisely > that it is NOT a > >     tenant > VNI.  The VxLAN > administration > does know how it > allocates VNI to > >     tenants, > and which VNI it > has allocated. > In contrast, it > does not know > >     which IP > addresses or MAC > adddresses teh > tenant is using > or may plan > >     to use. > > > >     Yours, > >     Joel > > > >     On > 8/2/2019 6:41 > PM, Dinesh Dutt > wrote: > >      > The > assumption of an > IP address > within any VNI > is suspect that way. > >      > What's > special about a > single VNI, the > management VNI? > The VTEP IP > >      > > address does not > belong in > reality in any > VNI... > >      > > >      > Dinesh > >      > > >      > On > Fri, Aug 2, 2019 > at 3:17 PM Joel > M. Halpern > > >   > > >      > > > >>> > wrote: > >      > > >      > >  Your response > seems to miss > two points: > >      > > >      > >  First, the > problem you > describe is not > what the > document says > >     it is > >      > >  solving.  To > the degree it > discusses it at > all, the document > >     says " > >      >       In > >      > >  most cases, a > single BFD > session is > sufficient for > the given > >     VTEP to > >      > >  monitor the > reachability of > a remote VTEP, > regardless of the > >     number of > >      > >  VNIs in common. " > >      > > >      > >  Second, you > assume the > existence of an > IP address for a > VTEP > >     within a > >      > >  VNI.  As with > the MAC address, > the VTEP does > not have an IP > >     address > >      > >  within the > VNI.  Some > implementations > may have created > such a > >     thing, > >      >     but > >      > >  the general > construct, as > defined to date, > does not support > such. > >      > > >      >     In > short, you are > requiring a > behavior that > violates the > >     architectural > >      > >  structure of > overlay / > underlay > separation, and > common > >     usage. > And you > >      > >  are doing so > to support a use > case that the > working group > has not > >      > >  indicated in > the document as > important. > >      > > >      >     Yours, > >      >     Joel > >      > > >      >     On > 8/2/2019 5:01 > PM, Dinesh Dutt > wrote: > >      >      > > Joel, > >      >      > > >      >      > > You understood > correctly. > >      >      > > >      >      > > The VNIs may not > share fate due > to > misconfiguration. And > I > >     strongly > >      >      > > suspect someone > will want to use > BFD for that > because its > >     about > >      > >  checking > >      >      > > path continuity > as stated by the > draft. As long > as there's a > >      > >  valid IP > >      >      > > (because it's > BFD) owned by > the VTEP in that > VNI, you can > >     use BFD in > >      >      > > that VNI. Thats > all that you > need to > dictate.  That > IP address > >      > >  has a MAC > >      >      > > address and you > can use that on > the inner frame. > That is > >     all normal > >      >      > > VXLAN > processing. The > outer IP is > always that of > the VTEP. > >      >      > > >      >      > > Dinesh > >      >      > > >      >      > > On Fri, Aug 2, > 2019 at 11:03 AM > Joel M. Halpern > >      > >   > > > >   >> > >      >      > > > > > > >   >>>> wrote: > >      >      > > >      > > >     If I am > reading your > various emails > correctly Dinesh > >     (and I > >      > >  may have > >      > > >     missed > something) you > are trying to > use the MAC address > >      > >  because you > >      > > >     want > >      > > >     to be > able to send > these BFD > packets over > arbitrary VNI to > >      > >  monitor the > >      > > >     VNI. > That is not a > requirement > identified in the > >     document. > >      >     It > is not > >      > > >     even a > problem I > understand, > since all the > VNI between an > >      > >  ingress and > >      > > >     egress > VTEP share fate. > >      >      > > >      > > >     Yours, > >      > > >     Joel > >      >      > > >      > > >     On > 8/2/2019 1:44 > PM, Dinesh Dutt > wrote: > >      > > >      > Thanks > for verifying > this. On Linux > and hardware > >     routers > >      > >  that I'm > >      > > >     aware > >      > > >      > of > (Cisco circa > 2012 and > Cumulus), the > physical MAC > >     address is > >      > > >     reused > >      > > >      > across > the VNIs on the > VTEP. Did you > check on a non-VMW > >      > >  device? > >      > > >     This is > >      > > >      > more > for my own > curiosity. > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > To > address the > general case, > can we not define a > >      > >  well-known (or > >      > > >     reserve > >      > > >      > one) > unicast MAC > address for use > with VTEP? If > the MAC > >      > >  address is > >      > > >      > > configurable in > BFD command, > this can be moot. > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > Dinesh > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > On > Fri, Aug 2, 2019 > at 10:27 AM > Santosh P K > >      > > >      > > > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >>> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >>>>> wrote: > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      >     I > have cross > checked point > raised about MAC > address > >      > >  usage. It is > >      > > >      > >  possible that > tenant could be > using physical MAC > >      > >  address and > >      > > >     when a > >      > > >      > >  packet comes > with valid VNI > with a MAC address > >     that is > >      >     being > >      > > >     used by > >      > > >      > >  tenant then > packet will be > sent to that tenant. > >     This rules > >      > > >     out the > >      > > >      > >  fact that we > could use > physical MAC > address as > >     inner > >      >     MAC to > >      > > >     ensure > >      > > >      > >  packets get > terminated at > VTEP itself. > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      >     Thanks > >      > > >      > >  Santosh P K > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      >     On > Wed, Jul 31, > 2019 at 11:00 AM > Santosh P K > >      > > >      > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >>> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >>>>> > >      > > >      >     wrote: > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >  Joel, > >      > > >      > >      Thanks for > your inputs. I > checked > >      > >  implementation > within > >      > > >      > >  Vmware. > Perhaps I should > have been more clear > >      > >  about MAC > >      > > >     address > >      > > >      > >  space while > checking > internally. I > will cross > >      > >  check again for > >      > > >      > >  the same and > get back on this > list. > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >  Thanks > >      > > >      > >  Santosh P K > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >  On Wed, Jul > 31, 2019 at > 10:54 AM Joel M. > >     Halpern > >      > > >      > >   > > >  > > > >  >> > >      > >   > > > >   >>> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > > >  >> > >      > >   > > > >   >>>>> wrote: > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >      Sorry to > ask a stupid > question.  Whose > >      > >  implementation? > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >      The reason > I ask is that as > far as I > >     can tell, > >      > >  since the > >      > > >      > >      tenant > does not > >      > > >      > >      have any > control access > to the VTEP, > >     there is no > >      > > >     reason for > >      > > >      > >      the VTEP to > >      > > >      > >      have a MAC > address in the > tenant > >     space. > Yes, the > >      > > >     device has > >      > > >      > >      a physical > >      > > >      > >      MAC > address.  But > the tenant could > well be > >      > >  using that MAC > >      > > >      > >      address.  Yes, > >      > > >      > >      they would > be violating the > Ethernet spec. > >      > >  But the whole > >      > > >      > >      point of > >      > > >      > > >  segregation is > not to care > about such > >     issues. > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >      On the > other hand, if > you tell me that > >     the VMWare > >      > > >      > > >  implementation > has an > >      > > >      > >      Ethernet > address that is > part of the tenant > >      > >  space, well, > >      > > >      > >      they made up > >      > > >      > >      this > particular game. > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >      Yours, > >      > > >      > >      Joel > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > >      On > 7/31/2019 1:44 > PM, Santosh P K > wrote: > >      > > >      > >       > I have > checked with > implementation > >     in data > >      >     path. > >      > > >     When we > >      > > >      > >      receive a > >      > > >      > >       > packet > with valid VNI > then lookup > >     for MAC will > >      > > >     happen and > >      > > >      > >      it is VTEP own > >      > > >      > >       > MAC > then it will be > trapped to control > >      > >  plane for > >      > > >      > > >  processing. I > think we > >      > > >      > >       > can > have following > options > >      > > >      > >       > 1. > Optional > managment VNI > >      > > >      > >       > 2. > Mandatory inner > MAC set to VTEP mac > >      > > >      > >       > 3. > Inner IP TTL set > to 1 to avoid > >      > >  forwarding of > packet > >      > > >      > >      via inner IP > >      > > >      > >       > address. > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > Thoughts? > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > Thansk > >      > > >      > >       > Santosh P K > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > On Wed, > Jul 31, 2019 at > 9:20 AM Greg > >     Mirsky > >      > > >      > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   >> > > >   > > >      > >   >>> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > > >  >> > >      > >   > > > >   >>>> > >      > > >      > >       > > > > >  > > >      > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > > >  >>> > >      > > >      > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >>>>>> wrote: > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       >     Hi > Dinesh, > >      > > >      > >       > >  thank you for > your consideration > >     of the > >      > > >     proposal and > >      > > >      > >      questions. > What > >      > > >      > >       > >  would you see > as the scope of > >     testing the > >      > > >      > > >  connectivity > for the > >      > > >      > >       > >  specific VNI? > If it is > >      > >  tenant-to-tenant, then > >      > > >     VTEPs > >      > > >      > >      will treat > these > >      > > >      > >       > >  packets as > regular user > frames. More > >      > >  likely, these > >      > > >      > >      could be > Layer 2 > >      > > >      > >       > >  OAM, e.g. CCM > frames. The reason > >     to use > >      > >  127/8 for > >      > > >      > >      IPv4, and > >      > > >      > >       > >  0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 for > >     IPv6 is > >      >     to > safeguard > >      > > >      > >      from leaking > >      > > >      > >       > >  Ethernet > frames with BFD > Control > >     packet > >      >     to a > >      > > >     tenant. > >      > > >      > >       > >  You've > suggested using > a MAC > >     address to > >      > >  trap the > >      > > >      > >      control > packet at > >      > > >      > >       > >  VTEP. What > that address > could be? We > >      > >  had proposed > >      > > >      > >      using the > >      > > >      > >       > >  dedicated MAC > and VTEP's MAC and > >     both > >      >     raised > >      > > >     concerns > >      > > >      > >      among VXLAN > >      > > >      > >       > >  experts. The > idea of using > >     Management > >      > >  VNI may > >      > > >     be more > >      > > >      > >      acceptable > >      > > >      > >       > >  based on its > similarity to the > >     practice > >      >     of > using > >      > > >      > >      Management > VLAN. > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >  Regards, > >      > > >      > >       >     Greg > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       >     On > Wed, Jul 31, > 2019 at 12:03 PM > >     Dinesh > >      >     Dutt > >      > > >      > > >   > > >  > > > >  >> > >      > >   > > > >   >>> > >      > > > >   > > > >   >> > >      > >   > > > >   >>>> > >      > > >      > >       > >   > > >  > > >      > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > > >   >>> > >      > >   > > > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > > >   >>>>>> > >      > > >      > >      wrote: > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >  Hi Greg, > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >  As long as the > inner MAC > >     address is > >      >     such > >      > > >     that the > >      > > >      > >      packet is > >      > > >      > >       > >  trapped to the > CPU, it should be > >      > >  fine for > >      > > >     use as > >      > > >      > >      an inner > MAC is > >      > > >      > >       > >  it not? > Stating that is > >     better than > >      > >  trying to > >      > > >      > >      force a > management > >      > > >      > >       > >  VNI. What if > someone wants > >     to test > >      > > >     connectivity > >      > > >      > >      on a specific > >      > > >      > >       > >  VNI? I would > not pick a > >     loopback IP > >      > > >     address for > >      > > >      > >      this since > that > >      > > >      > >       > >  address range > is host/node local > >      > >  only. Is > >      > > >     there a > >      > > >      > >      reason you're > >      > > >      > >       > >  not using the > VTEP IP as the > >     inner IP > >      > > >     address ? > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >  Dinesh > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >  On Wed, Jul > 31, 2019 at 5:48 AM > >      > >  Greg Mirsky > >      > > >      > >       > >   > > >  > > >      > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > > >  >>> > >      > > >      > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >>>> > > >  > > >      > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > > >  >>> > >      > > >      > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   >> > >      > > > >   > > >  > > >      > >   > > >  >>>>>> wrote: > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >      Dear All, > >      > > >      > >       > >      thank you > for your comments, > >      > > > >  suggestions on > >      > > >      > >      this issue, > >      > > >      > >       > >      probably > the most > >     challenging > >      > >  for this > >      > > >      > > >  specification. > In the > >      > > >      > >       > >      course of > our discussions, > >      > >  we've agreed to > >      > > >      > >      abandon the > >      > > >      > >       > >      request to > allocate the > >      > >  dedicated MAC > >      > > >     address > >      > > >      > >      to be used as > >      > > >      > >       > >      the > destination MAC > >     address in > >      > >  the inner > >      > > >      > >      Ethernet > frame. > >      > > >      > >       > >      Also, > earlier using VNI > >     0 was > >      > >  changed from > >      > > >      > >      mandatory > to one > >      > > >      > >       > >      of the > options an > >      > >  implementation may > >      > > >     offer to > >      > > >      > >      an operator. > >      > > >      > >       > >      The most > recent > > >  discussion was > >      > >  whether > >      > > >     VTEP's > >      > > >      > >      MAC address > >      > > >      > >       > >      might be > used as the > >      > >  destination MAC > >      > > >     address > >      > > >      > >      in the inner > >      > > >      > >       > >      Ethernet > frame. As I > >     recall > it, the > >      > > >     comments > >      > > >      > >      from VXLAN > >      > > >      > >       > >      experts > equally split > >     with one > >      >     for it > >      > > >     and one > >      > > >      > >      against. Hence > >      > > >      > >       > >      I would > like to propose > >     a new > >      > >  text to > >      > > >     resolve > >      > > >      > >      the issue. The > >      > > >      > >       > >      idea is to > let an > >     operator > select > >      > > >     Management > >      > > >      > >      VNI and use > >      > > >      > >       > >      that VNI > in VXLAN > >     encapsulation > >      >     of BFD > >      > > >      > >      Control > packets: > >      > > >      > >       > >      NEW TEXT: > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >          An > operator MUST > >     select a VNI > >      > > >     number to > >      > > >      > >      be used as > >      > > >      > >       > > >  Management > VNI. VXLAN > >      > >  packet for > >      > > >      > >      Management > VNI MUST NOT > >      > > >      > >       > >          be > sent to a > tenant. VNI > >      > >  number 1 is > >      > > >      > > >  RECOMMENDED as the > >      > > >      > >       > > >  default for > > >  Management VNI. > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >      With that > new text, what > >     can be the > >      > > >     value of > >      > > >      > >      the > destination > >      > > >      > >       > >      MAC in the > inner Ethernet? I > >      > >  tend to > >      > > >     believe > >      > > >      > >      that it can be > >      > > >      > >       > >      anything > and ignored by the > >      > >  reciever VTEP. > >      > > >      > >      Also, if the > >      > > >      > >       > >      trapping > is based on VNI > >      > >  number, the > >      > > >      > > >  destination IP > address > >      > > >      > >       > >      of the > inner IP packet > >     can from > >      > >  the range > >      > > >      > >      127/8 for > IPv4, > >      > > >      > >       > >      and for > IPv6 from the range > >      > > >      > > >  0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. And > >      > > >      > >       > >      lastly, > the TTL to be > >     set to 1 (no > >      > > >     change here). > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >      Much > appreciate your > >     comments, > >      > > > >  questions, and > >      > > >      > >      suggestions. > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > >       > >      Best regards, > >      > > >      > >       > >      Greg > >      > > >      > >       > > >      > > >      > > >      >      > > >      > > > > > From nobody Thu Sep 26 08:46:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562D71201C6; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:29:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.026, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NYpozuovoGga; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-f44.google.com (mail-vs1-f44.google.com [209.85.217.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F38B112082D; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-f44.google.com with SMTP id w195so310619vsw.11; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:29:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hV0IhxFEhVM1zJwDgOkiobFjSNrSL7SOljJ+G8YSNiM=; b=aNjNcWUxDJ+MVtE3CPqvVuhN7tVnDoJ8cbfKkFJBfZfVobPHMLXd0nx+udNFn5Xpcu LSD0+f6VVJjkEyGjYDOKLrL0AMayap1IuZctAmbrWd2ObC3cfpdEdzW38vrcHxJSZXrM DIPX4w/+88SGTvctIBBJ0vM/9oR6uQailvgR+DPfl3GU0Qdor8MslROles+b/9MYg0On N0VUeYm8nIshgI2tEUi5Ac03kFGShbnLzqAfTZHkkjYQFIqosWNYqehhxkl0Ee4WRY0e YTOsnZDfCDTaRk9HwDW62CppyfH4KsaLZ37WiYxoQnCGOo27GWmzofIIi7GVxTv1oh9w 41mg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVNgfrWgiHeRuvqtjH8oIWUPh8tfWBMcS9ADcpuVUrVtWxISGt7 gRwJxY3opFG8b9pski/AZ4MVHQjHeeKetyfvWYc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw8FW8KfPTgbuEU9RLrMte+qhq6zNODf8VgDNVjtrBrlWu90SwDjH+FD3675z961OorR8uH6OOQ7ohjJoNlkic= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ed47:: with SMTP id m7mr602693vsp.60.1569454163948; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:29:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201909251039413767352@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: <201909251039413767352@zte.com.cn> From: Anoop Ghanwani Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:29:12 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP To: xiao.min2@zte.com.cn Cc: santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com, Greg Mirsky , nvo3@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, didutt@gmail.com, rtg-bfd WG , "Joel M. Halpern" , tsridhar@vmware.com, bfd-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eef94005936905cc" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:46:14 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:29:28 -0000 --000000000000eef94005936905cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>> Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3 WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments. >>> I would be one of those that would argue that they MUST share on VAP if they connect to the same Virtual Network. IMO, the NVO3 arch doc should have been clearer about this. Thanks, Anoop On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:40 PM wrote: > Hi Santosh, > > > With regard to the question whether we should allow multiple BFD sessions > for the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more explanation as > follows. > > Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of RFC8014 (An Architecture for > Data-Center Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)). > > | Data Center Network (IP) | > | | > +-----------------------------------------+ > | | > | Tunnel Overlay | > +------------+---------+ +---------+------------+ > | +----------+-------+ | | +-------+----------+ | > | | Overlay Module | | | | Overlay Module | | > | +---------+--------+ | | +---------+--------+ | > | | | | | | > NVE1 | | | | | | NVE2 > | +--------+-------+ | | +--------+-------+ | > | |VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | | | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | > | +-+-----+----+---+ | | +-+-----+-----+--+ | > |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3 | |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3| > +----+-----+----+------+ +----+-----+-----+-----+ > | | | | | | > | | | | | | > | | | | | | > -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+------- > | | | Tenant | | | > TSI1 | TSI2| | TSI3 TSI1| TSI2| |TSI3 > +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > |TS1| |TS2| |TS3| |TS4| |TS5| |TS6| > +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > > To my understanding, the BFD sessions between NVE1 and NVE2 are actually > initiated and terminated at VAP of NVE. > > If the network operator want to set up one BFD session between VAP1 of > NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD session between VAP3 of > NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the same > VNI1, I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we should allow it. > > > Of course, in RFC8014 it also says: > > "Note that two different Tenant Systems (and TSIs) attached to a common NVE can share a VAP (e.g., TS1 and TS2 in Figure 2) so long as they connect to the same Virtual Network." > > Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same > Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 > should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3 > WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments. > > > Best Regards, > > Xiao Min > --000000000000eef94005936905cc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>
Some p= eople may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same Virtual Netw= ork MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 should merge= into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3 WG to in= volve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments.=C2=A0=C2=A0<= br>
>>>

I would be one of those that would argue that they MUST share on VAP if th= ey connect to the same Virtual Network.=C2=A0 IMO, the NVO3 arch doc should= have been clearer about this.

Thanks,
A= noop

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:40 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:

Hi Santosh,<= /p>


With regard to the question whether we should= =C2=A0allow multiple BFD sessions fo= r the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more explanation as follows= .

Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of RFC8014 (<= span style=3D"font-family:Arial,=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93,"Microsoft Yahei&qu= ot;,"Lucida Grande",Verdana,Lucida,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-heig= ht:24px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">An Architecture for Data-Center = Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)).

                    |         Data Center Network (IP)        =
|
                    |                                         |
                    +-----------------------------------------+
                         |                           |
                         |       Tunnel Overlay      |
            +------------+---------+       +---------+------------+
            | +----------+-------+ |       | +-------+----------+ |
            | |  Overlay Module  | |       | |  Overlay Module  | |
            | +---------+--------+ |       | +---------+--------+ |
            |           |          |       |           |          |
     NVE1   |           |          |       |           |          | NVE2
            |  +--------+-------+  |       |  +--------+-------+  |
            |  |VNI1 VNI2  VNI1 |  |       |  | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 |  |
            |  +-+-----+----+---+  |       |  +-+-----+-----+--+  |
            |VAP1| VAP2|    | VAP3 |       |VAP1| VAP2|     | VAP3|
            +----+-----+----+------+       +----+-----+-----+-----+
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
          -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+-------
                 |     |    |     Tenant        |     |     |
            TSI1 | TSI2|    | TSI3          TSI1| TSI2|     |TSI3
                +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+
                |TS1| |TS2| |TS3|             |TS4| |TS5|   |TS6|
                +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+

To my understanding, the BFD sess= ions between NVE1 and NVE2 are actually initiated and terminated at VAP of = NVE.

If the network operator want to set up one BFD ses= sion between VAP1 of NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD ses= sion between VAP3 of NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the same VNI1,=C2= =A0I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we shoul= d allow it.


Of course, in RFC8014 it also says:= 

"Note that two =
different Tenant Systems (and TSIs) attached to a common NVE can share a VA=
P (e.g., TS1 and TS2 in Figure 2) so long as they connect to the same Virtu=
al Network."

S= ome people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same Virtual= Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 should = merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3 WG = to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments.<= /p>


<= span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif">Best Regards,

Xia= o Min

--000000000000eef94005936905cc-- From nobody Thu Sep 26 08:46:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131B312080F; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:22:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vradpkKzheH; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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<201909261436151696571@zte.com.cn> From: Anoop Ghanwani Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:16:30 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP To: xiao.min2@zte.com.cn Cc: Greg Mirsky , didutt@gmail.com, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, nvo3@ietf.org, santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com, rtg-bfd WG , "Joel M. Halpern" , tsridhar@vmware.com, bfd-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b5b59505937641e5" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:46:14 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:16:46 -0000 --000000000000b5b59505937641e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Xiao Min, I think we would need more detail around the use case below. What does the MPLS packet over Tunnel look like? Thanks, Anoop On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 11:37 PM wrote: > Hi Anoop, > > > Thanks for your comments. > > Considering a scenario where TS1 has an MPLS access (i.e. MPLS-Packet ove= r > Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, TS3 has an Ethernet access (i.e. MAC-Frame > over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, then how can TS1 and TS3 share one VAP= ? > > > Best Regards, > > Xiao Min > =E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6 > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*AnoopGhanwani > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*=E8=82=96=E6=95=8F10093570; > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Greg Mirsky = ;didutt@gmail.com < > didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org < > draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org ; > santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com ;rtg-bfd WG < > rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern ; > tsridhar@vmware.com ;bfd-chairs@ietf.org < > bfd-chairs@ietf.org>; > *=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A*2019=E5=B9=B409=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5 08:36 > *=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9A**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD C= ontrol packet at VTEP* > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > >>> > Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same > Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 > should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO= 3 > WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments. > >>> > > I would be one of those that would argue that they MUST share on VAP if > they connect to the same Virtual Network. IMO, the NVO3 arch doc should > have been clearer about this. > > Thanks, > Anoop > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:40 PM wrote: > >> Hi Santosh, >> >> >> With regard to the question whether we should allow multiple BFD >> sessions for the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more explanat= ion >> as follows... >> >> Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of RFC8014 (An Architecture for >> Data-Center Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)). >> >> | Data Center Network (IP) | >> | | >> +-----------------------------------------+ >> | | >> | Tunnel Overlay | >> +------------+---------+ +---------+------------+ >> | +----------+-------+ | | +-------+----------+ | >> | | Overlay Module | | | | Overlay Module | | >> | +---------+--------+ | | +---------+--------+ | >> | | | | | | >> NVE1 | | | | | | NVE2 >> | +--------+-------+ | | +--------+-------+ | >> | |VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | | | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | >> | +-+-----+----+---+ | | +-+-----+-----+--+ | >> |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3 | |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3| >> +----+-----+----+------+ +----+-----+-----+-----+ >> | | | | | | >> | | | | | | >> | | | | | | >> -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+------- >> | | | Tenant | | | >> TSI1 | TSI2| | TSI3 TSI1| TSI2| |TSI3 >> +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ >> |TS1| |TS2| |TS3| |TS4| |TS5| |TS6| >> +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ >> >> To my understanding, the BFD sessions between NVE1 and NVE2 are actually >> initiated and terminated at VAP of NVE. >> >> If the network operator want to set up one BFD session between VAP1 of >> NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD session between VAP3 = of >> NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the same >> VNI1, I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we should allow >> it. >> >> >> Of course, in RFC8014 it also says: >> >> "Note that two different Tenant Systems (and TSIs) attached to a common = NVE can share a VAP (e.g., TS1 and TS2 in Figure 2) so long as they connect= to the same Virtual Network." >> >> Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same >> Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 >> should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NV= O3 >> WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Xiao Min >> > > --000000000000b5b59505937641e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Xiao Min,

I think w= e would need more detail around the use case below.=C2=A0 What does the MPL= S packet over Tunnel look like?

Thanks,
= Anoop

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 11:37 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:

Hi Anoop,


Thanks for your comments.

Considering a scenario where TS1 has an MPLS access (= i.e. MPLS-Packet over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, TS3 has an Ethernet acc= ess (i.e. MAC-Frame over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, then how can TS1 and= TS3 share one VAP?


Best Regards,

Xiao Min

=E5=8E=9F=E5=A7= =8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AAnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>=
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A=E8=82=96=E6=95=8F10093570;
=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC= =9A2019=E5=B9=B409=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5 08:36
=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9ARe: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD= Control packet at VTEP
________________________= _______________________
nvo3=C2=A0mailing=C2=A0list
nvo3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/nvo3

>>&= gt;
Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems con= necting to the same Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true,= then VAP1 and VAP3 should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn'= t work. Copying to NVO3 WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifica= tions and comments.=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>>

I would be one of those that would argue t= hat they MUST share on VAP if they connect to the same Virtual Network.=C2= =A0 IMO, the NVO3 arch doc should have been clearer about this.
<= br>
Thanks,
Anoop

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:4= 0 PM <xiao.min= 2@zte.com.cn> wrote:

Hi Santos= h,


With regard to the question whether we shoul= d=C2=A0allow multiple BFD sessions f= or the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more explanation as follow= s...

Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of RFC8014= (An Architecture for Data-Cent= er Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)).

                    |         Data Center Network (IP)   =
     |
                    |                                         |
                    +-----------------------------------------+
                         |                           |
                         |       Tunnel Overlay      |
            +------------+---------+       +---------+------------+
            | +----------+-------+ |       | +-------+----------+ |
            | |  Overlay Module  | |       | |  Overlay Module  | |
            | +---------+--------+ |       | +---------+--------+ |
            |           |          |       |           |          |
     NVE1   |           |          |       |           |          | NVE2
            |  +--------+-------+  |       |  +--------+-------+  |
            |  |VNI1 VNI2  VNI1 |  |       |  | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 |  |
            |  +-+-----+----+---+  |       |  +-+-----+-----+--+  |
            |VAP1| VAP2|    | VAP3 |       |VAP1| VAP2|     | VAP3|
            +----+-----+----+------+       +----+-----+-----+-----+
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
          -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+-------
                 |     |    |     Tenant        |     |     |
            TSI1 | TSI2|    | TSI3          TSI1| TSI2|     |TSI3
                +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+
                |TS1| |TS2| |TS3|             |TS4| |TS5|   |TS6|
                +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+

To my understanding, the BFD sess= ions between NVE1 and NVE2 are actually initiated and terminated at VAP of = NVE.

If the network operator want to set up one BFD ses= sion between VAP1 of NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD ses= sion between VAP3 of NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the same VNI1,=C2= =A0I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we shoul= d allow it.


Of course, in RFC8014 it also says:= 

"Note that two different Tenant Systems (and TSIs) attached to=
 a common NVE can share a VAP (e.g., TS1 and TS2 in Figure 2) so long as th=
ey connect to the same Virtual Network.&q=
uot;

Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems c= onnecting to the same Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's tru= e, then VAP1 and VAP3 should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn= 9;t work. Copying to NVO3 WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifi= cations and comments.


Best Reg= ards,

Xiao Min


=
--000000000000b5b59505937641e5-- From nobody Thu Sep 26 12:46:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6DE120ADD for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Rp35Tj_kTP5 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F11120891 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9D8031E2F2; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:49:48 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Message-ID: <20190926194948.GA22700@pfrc.org> References: <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 19:46:54 -0000 Les, On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:48:51PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > A few more thoughts - maybe these are more helpful than my previous comments - maybe not. I am sure you will let me know. > > Protocol extensions allowing negotiation and/or advertisement of support for larger PDUs may well be useful - but let's agree that it is desirable to deploy this without protocol extensions just to keep the interoperability bar low. > > My primary angst is with the following paragraph in Section 3: > > "It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can function > with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size may have > impact on BFD scaling. Such systems may support a lower transmission > interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in large packet > mode. This interval may depend on the size of the transport PDU." > > Given long experience that CPU use correlates more highly with number of packets than with number of bytes, the first sentence would seem to be weakly supported. > Given the previously mentioned concerns about detection time, the second sentence seems to compromise the value of the extension. My experience is largely identical to yours. The motivation for mentioning anything at all here is TANSTAAFL[1], and we've already had people ask about possible impacts. And, as we discussed previously in the thread we shall inevitably get asked about it during TSV review in IESG. The primary reason this is a "may" in the non-RFC 2119 sense is that our experience also suggests that when the scaling impacts are primarily pps rather than bps that this feature will likely have no major impact on implementations beyond your valid concerns about exercising bugs. I suspect had this not been mentioned at all, you would have been happier. But you're not the target audience for this weak caveat. > What might be better? > > 1)Some statement that MTU isn't necessarily a consistent value for all systems connected to an interface - which can impact the results when large BFD packets are used. Implementations might then want to consider supporting "bfd-mtu" configuration and/or iterating across a range of packet sizes to determine what works and what doesn't. I'm not clear what you intend by this statement. Are you asking that we emphasize the use case in a different way? The Introduction currently states: "However, some applications may require that the Path MTU [RFC1191] between those two systems meets a certain minimum criteria. When the Path MTU decreases below the minimum threshold, those applications may wish to consider the path unusable." I'm also unclear what "Implementations" may refer to here. BFD? An arbitrary user application? If the latter, the application may not have strict control over the generation of a given PDU size; e.g. TCP applications. > 2)Use of both padded and unpadded packets in combination with draft-ietf-bfd-stability to determine whether a BFD failure is due to padding or a generic forwarding failure. > > Either of these suggestions are really "diagnostic modes" which may help diagnose a problem but aren't meant to be used continuously as part of fast failure detection. We could certainly add a paragraph or two as an application note about using this for BFD stability purposes as well. -- Jeff From nobody Thu Sep 26 19:50:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDEC120099; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 19:50:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XzlXy4_7Is4q; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 19:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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(20.178.237.19) by BYAPR11MB3272.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (20.177.186.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2305.15; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:14:08 +0000 Received: from BYAPR11MB3638.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4d7:dd49:e1da:4474]) by BYAPR11MB3638.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4d7:dd49:e1da:4474%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2284.023; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:14:08 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Jeffrey Haas CC: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: RE: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets Thread-Index: AQHVXPUyTxWyJBtWsEOnJ4ETycFi16cjIc8AgAXoLNCAAJsYAIAHXvgQgACtbYCAAF1t0IAAU3wAgAAHCHCAAKTcgIAIh9iwgAL3EwCAAaVO0A== Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:14:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> 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zyUNu7o6cwTCrr6zMPGsvKmcK0nTtkg+pIfu4lEVYWbfQPqxBJtZb3XikoNV92/I7mSgctjSt5TOyb5jZqAHP/A9OjusvOFEZHmzMi4RTKdZAohhT8uoKIeI2XDDdIW9lZhAenCyHLo8dN9MzQJcQMyE93GkjpCpAA4Ou43yQyu+AriuY48cmVfxmx1eaPJ3+VjF1a+AMcEM0+Y2fH1QyqE8AS7iJ0UU7hRuQUs19vDGn8+63LtNJTp6Mick1zak4YjxZuzhGTv5uVpZk7CY9Bjqz4DEyxjyb8gLKO0RgUuqDn/DdHNjaK3Hf7gTPWvhCGonkyt4tGstGFdYamco3lU1OOKTORXBGfgbeW3rmQO9u92er6i8QLvXRhCLHFNqcGc388KJkd3rx5n+wEITm1JYQ0T14D48iafx7kc9bk4= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 99bb6a27-5324-47b6-df38-08d7438fa2ed X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Sep 2019 21:14:08.7797 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2qRKYHvKaXMfo7zdBm+8yDiUqDj38TG0fATroyBfCBYkcoXakCKSHx24yUkGy+vwtd3GKhwvoPCTEXhnIxwCSg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3272 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.26, xch-aln-016.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:14:14 -0000 Jeff - Inline. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Haas > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 12:50 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Cc: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; Reshad Rahman > (rrahman) ; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets >=20 > Les, >=20 > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:48:51PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > A few more thoughts - maybe these are more helpful than my previous > comments - maybe not. I am sure you will let me know. > > > > Protocol extensions allowing negotiation and/or advertisement of suppor= t > for larger PDUs may well be useful - but let's agree that it is desirable= to > deploy this without protocol extensions just to keep the interoperability= bar > low. > > > > My primary angst is with the following paragraph in Section 3: > > > > "It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can function > > with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size may have > > impact on BFD scaling. Such systems may support a lower transmissio= n > > interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in large packet > > mode. This interval may depend on the size of the transport PDU." > > > > Given long experience that CPU use correlates more highly with number o= f > packets than with number of bytes, the first sentence would seem to be > weakly supported. > > Given the previously mentioned concerns about detection time, the > second sentence seems to compromise the value of the extension. >=20 > My experience is largely identical to yours. >=20 > The motivation for mentioning anything at all here is TANSTAAFL[1], and > we've already had people ask about possible impacts. And, as we discusse= d > previously in the thread we shall inevitably get asked about it during TS= V > review in IESG. >=20 > The primary reason this is a "may" in the non-RFC 2119 sense is that our > experience also suggests that when the scaling impacts are primarily pps > rather than bps that this feature will likely have no major impact on > implementations beyond your valid concerns about exercising bugs. >=20 > I suspect had this not been mentioned at all, you would have been happier= . > But you're not the target audience for this weak caveat. >=20 [Les:] I am not opposed to a discussion of potential issues in the draft - = rather I am encouraging it. But the current text isn't really on the mark a= s far as potential issues - and we seem to agree on that. It also suggests = lengthening detection time to compensate - which I think is not at all what= you want to suggest as it diminishes the value of the extension. It also i= sn't likely to address a real problem. For me, the potential issues are: a)Some BFD implementations might not be able to handle MTU sized BFD packet= s - not because of performance - but because they did not expect BFD packet= s to be full size and therefore might have issues passing a large packet th= rough the local processing engine. b)Accepted MTU is impacted by encapsulations and what layer is being consid= ered (L2 or L3). And oftentimes link MTUs do not match on both ends ("shudd= er"), so you might end up with unidirectional connectivity. I appreciate th= at this is exactly the problem that the extensions are designed to detect. = I am just asking that these issues be discussed more explicitly as an aid t= o the implementor. If that also makes Transports ADs happier that is a side= benefit - but that's not my motivation. > > What might be better? > > > > 1)Some statement that MTU isn't necessarily a consistent value for all > systems connected to an interface - which can impact the results when lar= ge > BFD packets are used. Implementations might then want to consider > supporting "bfd-mtu" configuration and/or iterating across a range of pac= ket > sizes to determine what works and what doesn't. >=20 > I'm not clear what you intend by this statement. >=20 > Are you asking that we emphasize the use case in a different way? The > Introduction currently states: > "However, > some applications may require that the Path MTU [RFC1191] between > those two systems meets a certain minimum criteria. When the Path > MTU decreases below the minimum threshold, those applications may > wish to consider the path unusable." >=20 > I'm also unclear what "Implementations" may refer to here. BFD? An > arbitrary user application? If the latter, the application may not have > strict control over the generation of a given PDU size; e.g. TCP > applications. >=20 [Les:] I am talking about BFD implementations. I suppose one can imagine each BFD client requesting a certain MTU value - = but that wouldn't be my choice. I would think the value we want is really the maximum L3 payload that the l= ink is intended to support - which should be independent of the BFD client.= This might be larger than any client actually uses - but that seems like a= good thing. Les > > 2)Use of both padded and unpadded packets in combination with draft- > ietf-bfd-stability to determine whether a BFD failure is due to padding o= r a > generic forwarding failure. > > > > Either of these suggestions are really "diagnostic modes" which may hel= p > diagnose a problem but aren't meant to be used continuously as part of fa= st > failure detection. >=20 > We could certainly add a paragraph or two as an application note about us= ing > this for BFD stability purposes as well. >=20 > -- Jeff From nobody Fri Sep 27 14:35:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41980120129; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:35:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.026, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lQVyWLirgfJ4; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk1-f172.google.com (mail-vk1-f172.google.com [209.85.221.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 005F91201E3; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk1-f172.google.com with SMTP id j21so1523752vki.11; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YJTaaFy00+9UlClQFw7KCtwC02jOcQaNYgqfVXi+nAI=; b=tjQpU0SzNmj3AQL0jU/RVAZdu7PSdHKSIyxxSIaIzzdFaKbTrDRBOscK0cE8f9reGq AYYXU/j6VyxRdBiTgAavTIHDpEQ4FCOUdLUMoOhMcyoRKRzUN9iMnHMxa6jYkYHCN8ap S8sVXnVk4gz35y0R28G+8tnGpqqPaT6wyr6oTzwz9iFGMbxJAn7HFDU7z563RJvthzYt EzdQgza5jXsNkJmKAQg7uDs7MO+n/1vV6aarjf+y15XnLNASmQ7JXcLAk2Wn1Y0lwrB4 kBluyB/sQu95q8flWN1rsKzqqkjAWnNYTNp19+C57pWJp6hvdIdAWIpWZRp9DyLEr5ER TgDw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWuNXc6wECMUbI0D5shbNvHU8SljBIQKO14g4hw9AYf2GCcNjMX 4M54OFSdLgxYlHWFqzh0v1CTEq+Agop1YkqbsGU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzMBlyqhcGp6WvK9dP+e4ezxqlJBtJ0awnnxaCG74O85efxkz1XWOsfkq5/U9dbrIpj8q49GCkp5ixioO+JJWo= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:2051:: with SMTP id g78mr1593840vkg.51.1569620144849; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:35:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201909271049039305172@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: <201909271049039305172@zte.com.cn> From: Anoop Ghanwani Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:35:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP To: xiao.min2@zte.com.cn Cc: Greg Mirsky , didutt@gmail.com, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, nvo3@ietf.org, santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com, rtg-bfd WG , "Joel M. Halpern" , tsridhar@vmware.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002a897505938fabe4" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:35:50 -0000 --0000000000002a897505938fabe4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Xiao Min, Thanks for the details about the encap but the use case is not clear. It might help if you explain why its necessary to map a physical Ethernet port and/or 802.1Q VLAN to the same VNI as an MPLS packet without an L2 header. Thanks, Anoop On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 7:50 PM wrote: > Hi Anoop, > > > Due to the fact that a variety of Tunnels could be used under the NVO3 ar= chitecture, > as an example, below figure illustrates the format of MPLS packet over > Geneve Tunnel. > > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | | > ~ Outer Ethernet Header ~ > | | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | | > ~ Outer IPvX Header ~ > | | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | | > ~ Outer UDP Header ~ > | | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | | > ~ Geneve Header ~ > | | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+ > | | | > ~ MPLS Label Stack ~ M > | | P > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ L > | | S > | | > ~ Payload ~ P > | | K > | | T > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+ > | FCS | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > Note that in NVO3 working group Greg and I have submitted an individual > draft draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve, which is used to address BFD over Genev= e. > > The intention is to make the two drafts draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan and > draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve aligned, that is to say, we try to define the > identical mechanism for the common part of BFD over VxLAN Tunnel and BFD > over Geneve Tunnel. For the common part, draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve would > reference to draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan, and for the other part specific to > Geneve, we'll define the specific mechanism in draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve= . > > > Hope that clarifies. > > > Best Regards, > > Xiao Min > =E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6 > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*AnoopGhanwani > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*=E8=82=96=E6=95=8F10093570; > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Greg Mirsky = ;didutt@gmail.com < > didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org < > draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org ; > santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com ;rtg-bfd WG < > rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern ; > tsridhar@vmware.com ;bfd-chairs@ietf.org < > bfd-chairs@ietf.org>; > *=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A*2019=E5=B9=B409=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5 23:16 > *=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9A**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD C= ontrol packet at VTEP* > Hi Xiao Min, > I think we would need more detail around the use case below. What does > the MPLS packet over Tunnel look like? > > Thanks, > Anoop > > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 11:37 PM wrote: > >> Hi Anoop, >> >> >> Thanks for your comments. >> >> Considering a scenario where TS1 has an MPLS access (i.e. MPLS-Packet >> over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, TS3 has an Ethernet access (i.e. >> MAC-Frame over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, then how can TS1 and TS3 sh= are >> one VAP? >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Xiao Min >> =E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6 >> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*AnoopGhanwani >> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*=E8=82=96=E6=95=8F10093570; >> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A*Greg Mirsky ;didutt@gmail.com < >> didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org < >> draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org ; >> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com ;rtg-bfd WG < >> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern ; >> tsridhar@vmware.com ;bfd-chairs@ietf.org < >> bfd-chairs@ietf.org>; >> *=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A*2019=E5=B9=B409=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5 08:36 >> *=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9A**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD = Control packet at VTEP* >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >> >> >>> >> Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same >> Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 >> should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NV= O3 >> WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments. >> >>> >> >> I would be one of those that would argue that they MUST share on VAP if >> they connect to the same Virtual Network. IMO, the NVO3 arch doc should >> have been clearer about this. >> >> Thanks, >> Anoop >> >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:40 PM wrote: >> >>> Hi Santosh, >>> >>> >>> With regard to the question whether we should allow multiple BFD >>> sessions for the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more explana= tion >>> as follows... >>> >>> Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of RFC8014 (An Architecture for >>> Data-Center Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)). >>> >>> | Data Center Network (IP) | >>> | | >>> +-----------------------------------------+ >>> | | >>> | Tunnel Overlay | >>> +------------+---------+ +---------+------------+ >>> | +----------+-------+ | | +-------+----------+ | >>> | | Overlay Module | | | | Overlay Module | | >>> | +---------+--------+ | | +---------+--------+ | >>> | | | | | | >>> NVE1 | | | | | | NVE= 2 >>> | +--------+-------+ | | +--------+-------+ | >>> | |VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | | | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 | | >>> | +-+-----+----+---+ | | +-+-----+-----+--+ | >>> |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3 | |VAP1| VAP2| | VAP3| >>> +----+-----+----+------+ +----+-----+-----+-----+ >>> | | | | | | >>> | | | | | | >>> | | | | | | >>> -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+------- >>> | | | Tenant | | | >>> TSI1 | TSI2| | TSI3 TSI1| TSI2| |TSI3 >>> +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ >>> |TS1| |TS2| |TS3| |TS4| |TS5| |TS6| >>> +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ >>> >>> To my understanding, the BFD sessions between NVE1 and NVE2 are actuall= y >>> initiated and terminated at VAP of NVE. >>> >>> If the network operator want to set up one BFD session between VAP1 of >>> NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD session between VAP3= of >>> NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the same >>> VNI1, I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we should allow >>> it. >>> >>> >>> Of course, in RFC8014 it also says: >>> >>> "Note that two different Tenant Systems (and TSIs) attached to a common= NVE can share a VAP (e.g., TS1 and TS2 in Figure 2) so long as they connec= t to the same Virtual Network." >>> >>> Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same >>> Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 >>> should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to N= VO3 >>> WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments. >>> >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Xiao Min >>> >> >> > --0000000000002a897505938fabe4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Xiao Min,

Thanks fo= r the details about the encap but the use case is not clear.=C2=A0 It might= help if you explain why its necessary to map a physical Ethernet port and/= or 802.1Q VLAN to the same VNI as an MPLS packet without an L2 header.

Thanks,
Anoop

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 7= :50 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn= > wrote:

Hi Anoop,


Due to the fact= that=C2=A0a variety of Tunnels could be used under the NVO3 architecture, as an example, below figure i= llustrates the format of MPLS packet over Geneve Tunnel.

    0                   1                   2      =
             3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                                                               |
   ~                      Outer Ethernet Header                    ~
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                                                               |
   ~                        Outer IPvX Header                      ~
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                                                               |
   ~                        Outer UDP Header                       ~
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                                                               |
   ~                          Geneve Header                        ~
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+
   |                                                               |  |
   ~                         MPLS Label Stack                      ~  M
   |                                                               |  P
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  L
   |                                                               |  S
   |                                                               |
   ~                             Payload                           ~  P
   |                                                               |  K
   |                                                               |  T
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+
   |                               FCS                             |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
<= p style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial">


Note that in NVO3 working group Greg= and I have submitted an individual draft draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve, which= is used to address BFD over Geneve.

The intention is to make the two= drafts draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan and draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve aligned, that i= s to say, we try to define the identical mechanism for the common part of B= FD over VxLAN Tunnel and BFD over Geneve Tunnel. For the common part, draft= -xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve would reference to draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan, and for the = other part specific to Geneve, we'll define the specific mechanism in d= raft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve.


Hope that clarifies.


=

Best Regards,

Xiao Min

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AAnoopGhanwani = <anoop@alumni= .duke.edu>
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF= =BC=9A=E8=82=96=E6=95=8F10093570;
=E6=97=A5= =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A2019=E5=B9=B409=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5 23:1= 6
=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9ARe: [nvo3] BFD over VX= LAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP
<= div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Xiao Min,
I think we would need more detail arou= nd the use case below.=C2=A0 What does the MPLS packet over Tunnel look lik= e?

Thanks,
Anoop

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 11:37= PM <xiao.min2= @zte.com.cn> wrote:

Hi Anoop,<= /p>


Thanks for your comments.

Considering a scenario where TS1 has an MPLS ac= cess (i.e. MPLS-Packet over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, TS3 has an Ethern= et access (i.e. MAC-Frame over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, then how can T= S1 and TS3 share one VAP?

=

Best Regards,

Xiao Min

= =E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6
=E5= =8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AAnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.ed= u>
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A=E8=82=96=E6=95=8F10093570;=
=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A2019=E5=B9=B409=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5 08:36
=E4=B8=BB =E9= =A2=98 =EF=BC=9ARe: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trappin= g BFD Control packet at VTEP
__= _____________________________________________
nvo3=C2=A0mailing=C2=A0lis= t
nvo3@ietf.org= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3

>>>
Some people may argue that = all Tenant Systems connecting to the same Virtual Network MUST share one VA= P, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 should merge into one VAP and my = explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3 WG to involve more experts, h= ope for your clarifications and comments.=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>>

I would be one of those that would argue th= at they MUST share on VAP if they connect to the same Virtual Network.=C2= =A0 IMO, the NVO3 arch doc should have been clearer about this.

Thanks,
Anoop

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:40 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> w= rote:

Hi = Santosh,


With regard to the question whether w= e should=C2=A0allow multiple BFD ses= sions for the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more explanation as= follows...

Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of = RFC8014 (An Architecture for Da= ta-Center Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)).

                    |         Data Center Network (I=
P)        |
                    |                                         |
                    +-----------------------------------------+
                         |                           |
                         |       Tunnel Overlay      |
            +------------+---------+       +---------+------------+
            | +----------+-------+ |       | +-------+----------+ |
            | |  Overlay Module  | |       | |  Overlay Module  | |
            | +---------+--------+ |       | +---------+--------+ |
            |           |          |       |           |          |
     NVE1   |           |          |       |           |          | NVE2
            |  +--------+-------+  |       |  +--------+-------+  |
            |  |VNI1 VNI2  VNI1 |  |       |  | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 |  |
            |  +-+-----+----+---+  |       |  +-+-----+-----+--+  |
            |VAP1| VAP2|    | VAP3 |       |VAP1| VAP2|     | VAP3|
            +----+-----+----+------+       +----+-----+-----+-----+
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
                 |     |    |                   |     |     |
          -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+-------
                 |     |    |     Tenant        |     |     |
            TSI1 | TSI2|    | TSI3          TSI1| TSI2|     |TSI3
                +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+
                |TS1| |TS2| |TS3|             |TS4| |TS5|   |TS6|
                +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+

To my understanding, the BFD sess= ions between NVE1 and NVE2 are actually initiated and terminated at VAP of = NVE.

If the network operator want to set up one BFD ses= sion between VAP1 of NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD ses= sion between VAP3 of NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the same VNI1,=C2= =A0I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we shoul= d allow it.


Of course, in RFC8014 it also says:= 

"Note that two different Tenant Sy=
stems (and TSIs) attached to a common NVE can share a VAP (e.g., TS1 and TS=
2 in Figure 2) so long as they connect to the same Virtual Network."

Some people may argu= e that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same Virtual Network MUST share= one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3 should merge into one VAP = and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3 WG to involve more exp= erts, hope for your clarifications and comments.


Best Regards,

Xiao Min


=


<= /p> --0000000000002a897505938fabe4-- From nobody Sat Sep 28 13:04:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9EC212009E for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:04:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lfspfjB1yv7j for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 739F3120019 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id n7so11752575qtb.6 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:04:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KOEtG2wua6PnHmcgLJ5O1Utq3wr1ImpHmcqx4Rmt25I=; b=JJyAwQV9FEpibfWYSHYPFtwl77FVS8JM36+Shehl60PHifcckbPPO7VMlNGis9Jv6E 46u5v2Kq9+CY10zOGXEy+enfNBEMMS8iw1XBx4ciBiBWT3QHxAsTnJaYw1/M40wVX2UD Snw9uFc6Rs+3wVGAZirNz5fYMXxkN+eOtqpTp+jbYlUQGxm9nR/PlXmtp9SneSvF6aoV mQ1PvgOwN3/Y0BKwYKN0FFmqpbKdVrY4zg+KpZhTzNZZ4su1MItpQQZ/xD/E3ce3FrCN dDS30X7f2smujZ2kyk5PjheDATAkLRmd7T+NpjhgrqcZ+Agkej1mEQ7DR4bSzupm7RLR BhCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KOEtG2wua6PnHmcgLJ5O1Utq3wr1ImpHmcqx4Rmt25I=; b=JvLZ5rfgezf6Xev4vrxOIXnSwoVJot3xpKF0AN0jVlOuyVgghJafTCJBY7QTCJEr1a NtwWup13DGAWPxlKEdzAh/Zw0tCQ6E/P5gfV5gjU27tLUKx+9kXKwHVweXPAHKKOGMpJ cJ5U3zZR8IVwz1Q6ER93O2fb4A80kDuKeze5+Z0MdirbInH/QgTrBcJub9xGt2z/MCHZ /K+FbvFKQav7dEMOpor8SqgU899DA1cxA0hXSphwiG0zOviQRgf3zGorkljPsxKGuqit 1FJ+lKRvPZ/MNQIhvmuS6nBYxHAECSU8irG1LLy9snC1HHR3ucZlZIFaqxuXZ73xggQL gvkg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWhbtirhE6hH8hCx4f8gy23vVLn/8U/uRagHemEGRwOZWoIM1VL dFYVTjWjDznMtn+vrkM6XmjkVw787uu/jPD0I7ugGg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyRlJDFyKNS7IpAf+/hZXpLcDfOdQkNL5uMkGh8O6FUN9Z1+PXU+xgJM1sQ5D88burYc24tvNFlYl3itbc192w= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3059:: with SMTP id g25mr17193825qte.154.1569701088245; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:04:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <29C6F22D-AC57-446C-8013-408C4E28A94A@pfrc.org> <20190918152817.GA20672@pfrc.org> <20190919020128.GB20672@pfrc.org> <20190926194948.GA22700@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20190926194948.GA22700@pfrc.org> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 22:04:39 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-bfd-large-packets To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4ced20593a283b2" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:04:52 -0000 --000000000000c4ced20593a283b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Jeff, Imagine two scenarios which were already highlighted as justification for this work: *Scenario 1 -* IGP with nodes interconnected with ECMP links *Scenario 2 -* IGP nodes interconnected with L2 emulated circuits which in turn are riding on telco IP network with ECMPs or LAGs. *Questions Ad 1 - * Is the idea to use in those cases "ECMP-Aware BFD for LDP LSPs" vendor's feature to be able to detect MTU issues on any of the L3 paths ? Is there feature extension to accomplish the same without LDP just when using ECMP with OSPF ? How do you solve this when there is L2 LAG hashing across N links enabled ? *Question Ad 2 - * How do you detect it if your L2 circuit provider maps BFD flows to one underlay path and some encapsulated data packets is hashed to traverse the other path(s) ? Clearly running multiple BFD sessions is not going to help much in this scenario .... For example if someone is using v6 flow label it may be directly copied to the outer service header. Many thx, Robert. On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 9:46 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Les, > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:48:51PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > A few more thoughts - maybe these are more helpful than my previous > comments - maybe not. I am sure you will let me know. > > > > Protocol extensions allowing negotiation and/or advertisement of support > for larger PDUs may well be useful - but let's agree that it is desirable > to deploy this without protocol extensions just to keep the > interoperability bar low. > > > > My primary angst is with the following paragraph in Section 3: > > > > "It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can function > > with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size may have > > impact on BFD scaling. Such systems may support a lower transmission > > interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in large packet > > mode. This interval may depend on the size of the transport PDU." > > > > Given long experience that CPU use correlates more highly with number of > packets than with number of bytes, the first sentence would seem to be > weakly supported. > > Given the previously mentioned concerns about detection time, the second > sentence seems to compromise the value of the extension. > > My experience is largely identical to yours. > > The motivation for mentioning anything at all here is TANSTAAFL[1], and > we've already had people ask about possible impacts. And, as we discussed > previously in the thread we shall inevitably get asked about it during TSV > review in IESG. > > The primary reason this is a "may" in the non-RFC 2119 sense is that our > experience also suggests that when the scaling impacts are primarily pps > rather than bps that this feature will likely have no major impact on > implementations beyond your valid concerns about exercising bugs. > > I suspect had this not been mentioned at all, you would have been happier. > But you're not the target audience for this weak caveat. > > > What might be better? > > > > 1)Some statement that MTU isn't necessarily a consistent value for all > systems connected to an interface - which can impact the results when large > BFD packets are used. Implementations might then want to consider > supporting "bfd-mtu" configuration and/or iterating across a range of > packet sizes to determine what works and what doesn't. > > I'm not clear what you intend by this statement. > > Are you asking that we emphasize the use case in a different way? The > Introduction currently states: > "However, > some applications may require that the Path MTU [RFC1191] between > those two systems meets a certain minimum criteria. When the Path > MTU decreases below the minimum threshold, those applications may > wish to consider the path unusable." > > I'm also unclear what "Implementations" may refer to here. BFD? An > arbitrary user application? If the latter, the application may not have > strict control over the generation of a given PDU size; e.g. TCP > applications. > > > 2)Use of both padded and unpadded packets in combination with > draft-ietf-bfd-stability to determine whether a BFD failure is due to > padding or a generic forwarding failure. > > > > Either of these suggestions are really "diagnostic modes" which may help > diagnose a problem but aren't meant to be used continuously as part of fast > failure detection. > > We could certainly add a paragraph or two as an application note about > using > this for BFD stability purposes as well. > > -- Jeff > > --000000000000c4ced20593a283b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jeff,

Imagine two scenarios which we= re already highlighted as justification for this work:

=
Scenario 1 - IGP with nodes interconnected with ECMP links=C2= =A0

Scenario 2 - IGP nodes interconnected w= ith L2 emulated circuits which in turn are riding on telco IP network with = ECMPs or LAGs.=C2=A0

Questions Ad 1 -=C2=A0=

Is the idea to use in those cases "ECMP-Awar= e BFD for LDP LSPs" vendor's feature to be able to detect MTU issu= es on any of the L3 paths ? Is there feature extension to accomplish the sa= me without LDP just when using ECMP with OSPF ?=C2=A0

<= div>How do you solve this when there is L2 LAG hashing across N links enabl= ed ?=C2=A0

Question Ad 2 -=C2=A0
<= div>
How do you detect it if your L2 circuit provider maps BF= D flows to one underlay path and some encapsulated data packets is hashed t= o traverse the other path(s) ? Clearly running multiple BFD sessions is not= going to help much in this scenario .... For example if someone is using v= 6 flow label it may be directly copied to the outer service header.=C2=A0

Many thx,
Robert.


=
On Thu, Se= p 26, 2019 at 9:46 PM Jeffrey Haas <jh= aas@pfrc.org> wrote:
Les,

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:48:51PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > A few more thoughts - maybe these are more helpful than my previous co= mments - maybe not. I am sure you will let me know.
>
> Protocol extensions allowing negotiation and/or advertisement of suppo= rt for larger PDUs may well be useful - but let's agree that it is desi= rable to deploy this without protocol extensions just to keep the interoper= ability bar low.
>
> My primary angst is with the following paragraph in Section 3:
>
> "It is also worthy of note that even if an implementation can fun= ction
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with larger transport PDUs, that additional packet size m= ay have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 impact on BFD scaling.=C2=A0 Such systems may support a l= ower transmission
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 interval (bfd.DesiredMinTxInterval) when operating in lar= ge packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mode.=C2=A0 This interval may depend on the size of the t= ransport PDU."
>
> Given long experience that CPU use correlates more highly with number = of packets than with number of bytes, the first sentence would seem to be w= eakly supported.
> Given the previously mentioned concerns about detection time, the seco= nd sentence seems to compromise the value of the extension.

My experience is largely identical to yours.

The motivation for mentioning anything at all here is TANSTAAFL[1], and
we've already had people ask about possible impacts.=C2=A0 And, as we d= iscussed
previously in the thread we shall inevitably get asked about it during TSV<= br> review in IESG.

The primary reason this is a "may" in the non-RFC 2119 sense is t= hat our
experience also suggests that when the scaling impacts are primarily pps rather than bps that this feature will likely have no major impact on
implementations beyond your valid concerns about exercising bugs.

I suspect had this not been mentioned at all, you would have been happier.<= br> But you're not the target audience for this weak caveat.

> What might be better?
>
> 1)Some statement that MTU isn't necessarily a consistent value for= all systems connected to an interface - which can impact the results when = large BFD packets are used. Implementations might then want to consider sup= porting "bfd-mtu" configuration and/or iterating across a range o= f packet sizes to determine what works and what doesn't.

I'm not clear what you intend by this statement.

Are you asking that we emphasize the use case in a different way?=C2=A0 The=
Introduction currently states:
=C2=A0 "However,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0some applications may require that the Path MTU [RFC1191] betw= een
=C2=A0 =C2=A0those two systems meets a certain minimum criteria.=C2=A0 When= the Path
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MTU decreases below the minimum threshold, those applications = may
=C2=A0 =C2=A0wish to consider the path unusable."

I'm also unclear what "Implementations" may refer to here.=C2= =A0 BFD?=C2=A0 An
arbitrary user application?=C2=A0 If the latter, the application may not ha= ve
strict control over the generation of a given PDU size; e.g. TCP
applications.

> 2)Use of both padded and unpadded packets in combination with draft-ie= tf-bfd-stability to determine whether a BFD failure is due to padding or a = generic forwarding failure.
>
> Either of these suggestions are really "diagnostic modes" wh= ich may help diagnose a problem but aren't meant to be used continuousl= y as part of fast failure detection.

We could certainly add a paragraph or two as an application note about usin= g
this for BFD stability purposes as well.

-- Jeff

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Mon, 30 Sep 2019 02:53:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5D9180750134017A00390137_0_6820@msllnjpmsgsv06> In-Reply-To: <5D9180750134017A00390137_0_6820@msllnjpmsgsv06> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:52:57 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Rtg-bfd Digest, Vol 163, Issue 25 To: Albert Fu Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f128840593c2334c" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:53:11 -0000 --000000000000f128840593c2334c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Albert, Thank you for sharing the experience and your use case. However when we make any protocol extension we need to make sure all possible deployment cases are covered and it must be well understood how the proposed extension will operate in basic deployment scenarios I enumerated. I really do not think we should be standardizing extension for single use case based on the behavior someone is reporting as "likely to occur". We all agree that if you have a p2p fiber link between routers there is no issue. The issue surface when you are using emulated circuits as your p2p links. So the solution should allow to detect the problem in all cases it can happen. Perhaps BFD is not the right tool for this. Perhaps we need to go back to BESS WG and report that VPWS or EVPN based p2p emulated circuits were not design right as they exhibit observed issues. > We won't have control over how the Provider maps our traffic (BFD/data). Well of course you do :) Just imagine if your BFD packets (in set equal to configured multiplier) would start using random UDP source port which then would be mapped to different ECMP buckets along the way in provider's underlay ? Kind regards, Robert. On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 6:11 AM Albert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 120 PARK) < afu14@bloomberg.net> wrote: > Hi Robert, > > > > Imagine two scenarios which were already highlighted as justification for > > this work: > > > *Scenario 1 -* IGP with nodes interconnected with ECMP links > > > *Scenario 2 -* IGP nodes interconnected with L2 emulated circuits which > in > > turn are riding on telco IP network with ECMPs or LAGs. > > > *Questions Ad 1 - * > > > Is the idea to use in those cases "ECMP-Aware BFD for LDP LSPs" vendor's > > feature to be able to detect MTU issues on any of the L3 paths ? Is there > > feature extension to accomplish the same without LDP just when using ECMP > > with OSPF ? > The draft does not go into the specific use cases. I think most BFD uses > cases (certainly in our case) are on p2p IGP/eBGP links. (btw some vendors > do not support control-plane BFD independence for multihops BFD, making it > unreliable for fast detection). > > > The end to end paths may have multiple multiple-ECMP links/paths. The BFD > sessions on the individual link along the path will detect large packet > issue. > > > > How do you solve this when there is L2 LAG hashing across N links > enabled ? > This is a situation where you need more than standard BFD. It is a reason > why some customers like us prefer not to run LAG on parallel WAN circuits, > so we can diagnose interface issues easily via standard tools like ping. It > is a design compromise. > > > > > *Question Ad 2 - * > > > How do you detect it if your L2 circuit provider maps BFD flows to one > > underlay path and some encapsulated data packets is hashed to traverse > the > > other path(s) ? Clearly running multiple BFD sessions is not going to > help > > much in this scenario .... For example if someone is using v6 flow label > it > > may be directly copied to the outer service header. > We won't have control over how the Provider maps our traffic (BFD/data). > In my experience, the chances of this happening is prob small based on my > involvement with all of these issues, in that when the issue happened, all > packets > certain size would fail, not some getting through and some > failing. > > > Thanks > > Albert > > > --000000000000f128840593c2334c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Albert,

Thank you for sharing the ex= perience and your use case.=C2=A0

However when we = make any protocol extension we need to make sure all possible deployment ca= ses are covered and it must be well understood how the proposed extension w= ill operate in basic deployment scenarios I enumerated. I really do not thi= nk we should be standardizing extension for single use case based on the be= havior someone is reporting as "likely to occur".
<= br>
We all agree that if you have a p2p fiber link between router= s there is no issue.=C2=A0

The issue surface when = you are using emulated circuits as your p2p links. So the solution should a= llow to detect the problem in all cases it can happen. Perhaps BFD is not t= he right tool for this. Perhaps we need to go back to BESS WG and report th= at VPWS or EVPN based p2p emulated circuits were not design right as they e= xhibit observed issues.=C2=A0

> We won't have control over how the Provider maps o= ur traffic (BFD/data).=C2=A0=C2=A0

Well= of course you do :)=C2=A0 Just imagine if your BFD packets (in set equal t= o configured multiplier) would start using random UDP source port which the= n would be mapped to different ECMP buckets along the way in provider's= underlay ?=C2=A0

Kind regards,
Robert.<= /div>


On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 6:11 AM Albert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 1= 20 PARK) <afu14@bloomberg.net= > wrote:
Hi R= obert,

> Imagine two scenarios which were alrea= dy highlighted as justification for
> this work:

> *Scenari= o 1 -* IGP with nodes interconnected with ECMP links

> *Scenario = 2 -* IGP nodes interconnected with L2 emulated circuits which in
> tu= rn are riding on telco IP network with ECMPs or LAGs.

> *Question= s Ad 1 - *

> Is the idea to use in those cases "ECMP-Aware B= FD for LDP LSPs" vendor's
> feature to be able to detect MTU= issues on any of the L3 paths ? Is there
> feature extension to acco= mplish the same without LDP just when using ECMP
> with OSPF ?
The= draft does not go into the specific use cases. I think most BFD uses cases= (certainly in our case) are on p2p IGP/eBGP links. (btw some vendors do no= t support control-plane BFD independence for multihops BFD, making it unrel= iable for fast detection).

The end to end paths may have multiple multiple-ECMP links/paths. The= BFD sessions on the individual link along the path will detect large packe= t issue.


> How do you solve this when there is L2 LAG hashing= across N links enabled ?
This is a situation where you need more than s= tandard BFD. It is a reason why some customers like us prefer not to run LA= G on parallel WAN circuits, so we can diagnose interface issues easily via = standard tools like ping. It is a design compromise.


> *Question Ad 2 - *

> How do you detect it if your = L2 circuit provider maps BFD flows to one
> underlay path and some en= capsulated data packets is hashed to traverse the
> other path(s) ? C= learly running multiple BFD sessions is not going to help
> much in t= his scenario .... For example if someone is using v6 flow label it
> = may be directly copied to the outer service header.
We won't have co= ntrol over how the Provider maps our traffic (BFD/data). In my experience, = the chances of this happening is prob small based on my involvement with al= l of these issues, in that when the issue happened, all packets > certai= n size would fail, not some getting through and some failing.<= blockquote>
Thanks
Albe= rt


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