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Thu, 4 Jun 2020 12:33:26 +0000 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "bess@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "CCAMP@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "pals@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" CC: Ron Sdayoor , Rotem Cohen Subject: Change of email address Thread-Topic: Change of email address Thread-Index: AdY6a+TLCHm6WE7zRQSbSvqx0WrAHA== Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 12:33:26 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [79.183.63.9] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0462e468-617d-4428-fc4b-08d808837aaa x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR03MB3905: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 04244E0DC5 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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boundary="_000_AM0PR03MB4499A03C46A28A22693EAA439D890AM0PR03MB4499eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ecitele.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0462e468-617d-4428-fc4b-08d808837aaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Jun 2020 12:33:26.3929 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2c514a61-08de-4519-b4c0-921fef62c42a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aCT7U+3db9zXuycCebVfwqPbkGT4Xm/+YIrPJNljHfTg9LiUn23wR8+3wsMhQmfvr44v0g5sIo92lTNCMaQn1g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR03MB3905 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-DetectorID-Processed: d8d3a2b3-1594-4c39-92fb-b8312fe65a8a Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 10:46:21 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 12:33:41 -0000 --_000_AM0PR03MB4499A03C46A28A22693EAA439D890AM0PR03MB4499eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear colleagues, Following the acquisition of my employer - ECI Telecom, by Ribbon, startin= g from 09-Jun-20 all the mails I will send to IETF will use alexander.vain= shtein@rbbn.com as my address. I will still be receiving emails addressed to alexander.vainshtein@ecitele= .com (at least for the time being= ). I will re-subscribe to all the IETF mailing lists using my new email once = it becomes operational. Regards, and apologies for possible inconvenience, Sasha Office: +972-39266302 Cell: +972-549266302 Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com __________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is=20 CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this=20 transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original=20 and all copies thereof. __________________________________________________________________________= _ --_000_AM0PR03MB4499A03C46A28A22693EAA439D890AM0PR03MB4499eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear colleagues,

Following the acquisition of my employer – EC= I Telecom, by Ribbon, starting from 09-Jun-20 all the mails I will send to= IETF will use alexander.vainshtein@rbbn= .com as my address.

 

I will still be receiving emails addressed to alexander.vainshtein@ecitele.com (at least for the time being).

 

I will re-subscribe to all the IETF mailing lists u= sing my new email once it becomes operational.

 

Regards, and apologies for possible inconvenience,<= o:p>

Sasha

 

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266= 302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com=

 


__________________________________________________________________________= _

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original
and all copies thereof.
__________________________________________________________________________= _
--_000_AM0PR03MB4499A03C46A28A22693EAA439D890AM0PR03MB4499eurp_-- From nobody Wed Jun 10 05:35:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7853A0593; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:35:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wyt5XIjcU0JF; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549703A0484; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 05:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DBA281E2F6; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 08:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 08:44:35 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Greg Mirsky Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , bfd-chairs@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Subject: Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan-12.txt Message-ID: <20200610124435.GA10879@pfrc.org> References: <159044404527.8049.12733520274507148210@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 12:35:43 -0000 Greg, Thank you for your work on updating the draft. I will review the current draft (-12) vs. the open issues writeup I did a while back and will endeavor to have this completed by end of this week. -- Jeff On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 03:11:24PM -0700, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Dear Carlos, > thank you for your comments and suggestions. I hope that the updated > version of the draft addresses your comments. Please let me know whether > I've captured them all correctly. > > Dear Jeff and Reshad, > I believe that all action points from the IESG reviews and discussions are > reflected in the current version. I much appreciate your consideration and > suggestion on the next steps to progress this document. > > Regards, > Greg > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Mon, May 25, 2020 at 3:00 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan-12.txt > To: Sudarsan Paragiri , Mallik Mudigonda < > mmudigon@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky , Vengada Prasad > Govindan , Santosh Pallagatti < > santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan-12.txt > has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan > Revision: 12 > Title: BFD for VXLAN > Document date: 2020-05-25 > Group: bfd > Pages: 11 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan-12.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan-12 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan-12 > > Abstract: > This document describes the use of the Bidirectional Forwarding > Detection (BFD) protocol in point-to-point Virtual eXtensible Local > Area Network (VXLAN) tunnels used to form an overlay network. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat From nobody Fri Jun 12 14:50:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C543A0029 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2020 14:50:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, 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localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id giNa82OA2VfP; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CAE3A05A0; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E3A301E2F9; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:10:57 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Greg Mirsky , iesg@ietf.org Cc: bfd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status Message-ID: <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:01:50 -0000 [Apologies on further delay. The best way to cause unexpected work is to offer a personal deadline to have something done.] Greg and the IESG, This update is vs. version -12 of the draft. General summary: Almost ready to go. Multiple issues are resolved. Pending items flagged here should be addressed. Once addressed, we'll ask the IESG to take this up again. On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:17:05PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Much like the BFD Working Group discussion on the BFD for vxlan feature, the > IESG review for the draft has reached a stage where it is difficult to > determine what the related actions are. (IESG take note for tools > discussion!) > > This email is an attempt to kick the conversation back into gear. > > My notes here are based on the current status of the document tracked here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ballot/ > > My comments on the draft are based on the -10 version of the draft as > currently published. > > --- > > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit = 1 > > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working group > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is how this > impacts existing implementations. This issue is resolved. > > --- > > Open Issue 2: Document Status should be Informational rather than Proposed > Standard. > > Proposed Action: Greg should make the document Informational. Prior WG > discussion suggested that we don't really care what level it should be at, > and had actually requested IESG guidance long ago via our AD. This action is pending. > --- > > Open Issue 3: dst IP/MAC assignment procedures for inner VXLAN headers. > (DISCUSS via Benjamin K.) Specifically per-VNI form rather than strictly > VTEP-to-VTEP mode. > > Issue Comment 1 (Benjamin K.): This is "a namespace grab in what is > essentially the tenant's namespace". > > Issue Comment 2 (Jeff H.): Joel Halpern flagged this repeatedly as well as > part of directorate review. > > Issue Comment 3 (Benjamin K.): "management VNI does not suffer from this > namespacing issue". > > Issue Comment 4 (Jeff H./Benjamin K.): The concept of a "management VNI" is > not supported by existing standards work, but is accepted as a common > implementation behavior. > > Issue Comment 5: A significant exploration of this set of issues is > documented in the following thread: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/SfXfu3pCh9BxaRFrXbEOgGt6xjE/ > > Proposed Action: Limit the Internet-Draft's applicability to verifying > connectivity to the management VNI. "All other uses of the specification to > test toward other vxlan endpoints are out of scope." > > In reviewing the thread, my reading of the comments from Santosh, Anoop, and > Dinesh are effectively "don't break existing implementations". There is > acknowledge among those in the discusssion that numbering space collisions > between the protocol codepoints chosen to run as endpoints for the BFD for > vxlan session and the tenant space are undesirable. It is generally agreed > in the thread (IMO) that for the "management VNI" case that this is not > problematic, although the details of provisioning are still specific to the > implementation. > > By setting the case aside where a test to a specific VTEP may have tenant > namespace collisions, the document can be cleaned of a lot of unnecessary > edge cases that are difficult to generally resolve. Implementations that > may choose to permit sessions to non-management VNIs will have need to > resolve how to deal with collisions. The suggested action was taken. The document now refers only to the management VNI, and offers a default value for that VNI number. This should resolve a significant number of issues. > > --- > > Open Issue 4: "multicast service node" text (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: Incorporate suggested text from Benjamin K. to clarify text > in -10. This issue is resolved. > --- > > Open Issue 5: Comma parsing issue (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: Accept Benjamin's suggested changes. (RFC Editor will win > the day here though!) This action is pending. > --- > > Open Issue 6: "Section 3, MUST NOT be forwarded to a VM" (COMMENT via > Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: The fate of this issue is tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. This action is still open. > --- > > Open Issue 7: "::FFFF:7F00:0/104 IPv6 range" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. This action is still pending. > --- > > Open Issue 8: "Section 4: MUST ensure that the BFD Control packet is not > forwarded to a tenant but is processed locally at the remote VTEP" (COMMENT > via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. This action is still pending and perhaps requires further discussion. Benjamin's point was: "This has to be 100% reliable, and I think we need to provide some example mechanism that has that property even if we don't mandate that it be the only allowed mechanism." The motivation here was that when this specification was intended to address a fully generalized BFD for vxlan for arbitrary VNIs, there was a strong need to say "do not forward the BFD traffic to the tenant". For the now default scenario of only the management VNI, this text may be adequate. Benjamin should look at the current document and decide if the scenario is still of concern. > --- > > Open Issue 9: "Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC > addresses." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. In -12, we now have the following text: "Destination MAC: since a Management VNI is the VNI that does not have any tenants, the value of this field is not analyzed by the receiving VTEP." For the management VNI, this text is true. However, it likely requires a value that is described in the specification. Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known and the text would become: "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, will have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value X:X:X:X:X SHOULD be used in this field." SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for permitting the flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is desired, MUST might be inappropriate. > --- > > Open Issue 10: "The details of how the MAC address is obtained are outside > the scope of this document." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: None. Reason 1: If we go with only the management VNI, > provisioning remains an easy answer. Reason 2: If we go with VNI-to-VNI > mode, it's not unreasonable for the environment to claim a MAC address. > This is no different than a switch itself. Collisions would be handled via > updated configuration. This issue is resolved by only describing the management VNI. > --- > > Open Issue 11: "dst IP header MUST NOT be one of tenant's" (COMMENT via Benjamin > K.) > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): The loopback range as a destination would serve to > catch BFD traffic in either VNI-to-VNI or VTEP-to-VTEP mode. I think this > is more clearly understood after the IESG reviewed the existing mechanisms > using the loopback address range in existing RFCs. > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. In the current text for -12, the host loopback range serves to provide the necessary mechanism. Given the restricted scope of the the management VNI, I believe the unchanged text is sufficient. > --- > > Open Issue 12: "Section 5, BFD dst mac collision with tenant" (COMMENT via > Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. I believe the text in -12 describing only the management VNI resolves this issue. > --- > > Open Issue 13: "The UDP destination port and the TTL of the inner IP packet > MUST be validated to determine if the received packet can be processed by > BFD." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: Provide reference to RFC 5880/5881 sections covering > existing BFD procedure. Do not copy and paste from them. The text in -12 is: "Validation of TTL / Hop Limit of the inner IP packet, as long as the related considerations for BFD control packet demultiplexing and authentication, is performed as described in Section 5 [RFC5881]." This text is slightly awkward English, but I believe covers the intent. I suggest rewording this to: "The received packet's inner IP payload is then validated according to Sections 4 and 5 in [RFC5881]." > --- > > Open Issue 14: "nits ... then the BFD session" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: Accept grammar correction. This issue is no longer relevant in -12. > --- > > Open Issue 15: "Section 6" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. In particular, this section attempts to > justify VNI-to-VNI mode poorly. This issue is no longer relevant in -12. > --- > > Open Issue 16: "Section 9" regarding mis-forwarding/filtering of BFD traffic > toward tenant (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. I believe the new text, describing only the management VNI, obviates this comment. > --- > > (Alvaro's DISCUSSes are covered by the above.) > > (Alvaro acknowledged that his COMMENTS were cleared on December 25, 2019) > > (Eric V's DISCUSS points are covered by prior open points regarding: > - TTL (see Open Issue 1) > - Mapped IPv6 addresses were covered in discussion with IESG about existing > RFC behavior for this range. > - The mismatch between document IANA action and shepherd writeup is an > artifact of document changes since the shepherd writeup had happened. > The document currently has no open IANA actions. > - Section 9 issues about TTL were addressed in -09 of the document.) > > --- > > Open Issue 17: "RFC 5881 (BFD) states that it applies to IPv4/IPv6 tunnels, > may I infer that this document is only required to address the Ethernet > encapsulation ? I.e. specifying the Ethernet MAC addresses?" (COMMENT via > Eric V.) > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): RFC 5881 addresses single-hop "that is associated with > an incoming interface". vxlan requires additional demultiplexing based on > packet contents and thus the comment is not fully applicable. This document > (draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan) is intended to cover the vxlan protocol encapsulation > for BFD. > > Proposed Action: No action required. No action was taken. > --- > > Open Issue 18: "BFD session per VXLAN VNI" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > relevant and may be deleted. This issue should be resolved by only describing the management VNI in -12. > --- > > Open Issue 19: "Section 4...FCS" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > Proposed Action: Accept suggested change to "Outer Ethernet FCS"? This action is pending. > --- > > Open Issue 20: "using the src mac as the dst mac" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > Proposed Action: ? I'm unclear what the proposal and comment is here. It is unclear what action was requested. > --- > > (TTL issues noted by Eric V. addressed in Open Issue 1.) > > --- > > Open Issue 21: "throttling of BFD control packets" (COMMENT via Roman D.) > > Proposed Action: The section on throttling is written in a confusing manner > and is in need of a re-write. > > In particular, what's unclear is what is doing the throttling and why? If > the comment is intended to say that some forms of rate-limiting of the vxlan > traffic between two systems is in place that it may impact BFD, it should > say that. And perhaps once said, omit giving "advice". "If it hurts, don't > do that." These issues were addressed by referring to existing security considerations in RFCs 5880, 5881, and 7348. > --- > > (COMMENTS from Roman D. addressed in -10 and earlier: > - citing specific security considerations applicability > - nits > ) > > (COMMENT from Suresh K. covered in open issues above.) > > (COMMENT from Warren K. regardig loopback network range discussed above.) > > --- > > Open Issue 22: "terminology isn't" (COMMENT via Warren K.) > > Proposed Action: Either rename the section "acronyms used in this document" > or expand the section to cover the terminology. This action is still pending. > --- > > (Mirja K. indirects a number of issues to "See Olivier's TSV-ART review", > which is present in this message: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/y3xDkvpT-ZodhcaBRHNOSDVByA8/) > > Open Issue 23: "follow same lookup path needs more explanation" > > Proposed Action: Add a sentence explaining that this is to ensure that the > encapsulated BFD traffic requires following the equivalent data path to > protect the resource" Section 5 now contains: "BFD packets MUST be encapsulated and sent to a remote VTEP as explained in this section. Implementations SHOULD ensure that the BFD packets follow the same forwarding path as VXLAN data packets within the sender system." I believe this addresses the issue. > --- > > Open Issue 24: "Discuss ECMP considerations" (TSV-ART via Olivier B.) > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): I believe this came up in the message thread, but base > BFD also has similar unclear ECMP behaviors. The working group has avoided > trying to standardize anything regarding ECMP since it gets very > implementation specific. Some vendors will go out of their way to do things > to mitigate ECMP considerations when BFD is in place; others simply ignore > it. > > Proposed Action: Unclear. None? No action has been taken here. I believe this is appropriate. > --- > > (Minor issues report by Olivier B. that have been addressed in -10 or > earlier: > - p2p vxlan tunnel wording > - VNI has been added to section 2.1 > - "figure 1 could take less space" - not addressed. > - section 4 flattened to remove unnecessary sub-sections > - "dedicated mac" address no longer in current versions of document > - "v4 in v6 / v6 in v4, etc." - intentionally unspecified since arbitrary > encapsulations are supported by specification. Implementations may have > specific limitations. > - "section 5 dedicated mac" no longer in the document > - "decapsulation procedure reference" I believe has been clarified.) > > (Mirja's comment on status is covered by Open Issue 2) > > (Comments from Barry L. addressed: > - "forming up" > - bfd packet/vtep packets/vteps plurality agreement. > - "may be configured" clarified. > - Section 4.1 "of") > > --- > > Open Issue 25: "leading to a false negative" (COMMENT via Barry L.) > > Proposed Action: The underlying concern in this sentence is that BFD packets > must not be mis-delivered to VMs since there will be no BFD machinery > present in that VM to execute the BFD procedures and thus sessions will > drop. Possible action is to simply delete this sentence since it > prematurely anticipates procedures later described in the document. This action is still pending. > > --- > > Open Issue 26: "loopback range through a firewall" (COMMENT via Barry L.) > > Proposed Action: Accept suggested rewording. This action is still pending. > --- > > Open Issue 27: "Section 4...addresses the scenario" (COMMENT via Barry L.) > > Proposed Action: This sentence needs to be reworded. This issue is addressed by referring to GTSM mechanisms per other discussion. > --- > > (Comments from Adam R. addressed: > - Form of ipv6 mapped address. > - Usage of loopback network addresses compared to prior RFCs discussed in > thread with IESG.) > > > > > > -- Jeff >From jhaas as part of reviewing -12: --- Section 7 should be rewritten as: 7. BFD Echo Function Support for the BFD Echo function [RFC5880], Section 3.2, is outside the scope of this document. --- There remain a few minor English article agreement issues in the text, but these can be deferred to the RFC Editor's preference for resolution. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Jun 16 19:38:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C433A0CD4; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:05:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.696 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.696 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_COMMENT_SAVED_URL=1.391, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Avo53cCx9tIX; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com (mail-lf1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3CE33A0CD1; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id g2so263109lfb.0; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:05:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rWORt5RNvFmXnHR72g9NuEjXTYW/Plf2xqHHn7L8g5I=; b=ej5J9E0RPG/ScZZefSs143ZRslXREbDNb80qe51vb2TYRPLBzQs/xIpYEXt4JZOb5n 8/mHmdAJ3KNoCJQgYjGRAeOF6fdzjx8EUxm4Evee2+7qU/ykdr9s93mXvIejU4fj8vDK 8mPIeP/G2NnwAF9oOnO0Ds/YKZU2b9jaAwVwWfjiqezDrGx9g92+iWy9DF+zTCyFl+2n g1qfZHzhVugjcvCP/XBQ6ZTVXiz3bnN6rBHFAeY/snwjvJCCOfiV6GLq8/3uaIA5sGxg bBNZtWk5atTQMoNKGZ3ndJ8qq2TyD/yLDOyYGReRGZ8IyL5qdDoU1N5noRl2/ZOZld+N zdAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rWORt5RNvFmXnHR72g9NuEjXTYW/Plf2xqHHn7L8g5I=; b=sYFor5Od/Uzs7cbCkCk3vrDmt+R/z82HQYvVL1Y0c8PUyL3f3EASnZsIq+EQWrWa0u FIzanFQP+m7u88q9+oi0feUr/3Vs3MkK0H3/Km8EDGURECppc31fshWqTdzaFb0u8KzG p/7d+YClMBEIXkIxs3B6LA9J09Fr/PhUukGoM5IkBSyimvOBwgPMb3wC3x9cgZK7H/MD 9stjc25TJ3929J0HC1vrIdE+6vXMTZ1TK0toHf48McN+mWjb6ChwmkiCHPE+xZ+F0Wn9 YBKR4+U6BTuWpYn3Lvrd6Ssc6IyIs0j/YrnZdh3yMv6mdCOoydZlMH0TlkGgN7iJvKt0 VFcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530fB47NCf68IP+Qk091SRsVfj06OhrFzlBjaHAlkebqI/cf1H9W MTP137+461bQHX9X72mYALgiE3wY92qFH4N0tncmypAX X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzo2qiSLwaBKBsrSbpFXu41SKJ8O1WzdKbqf4TN8Ssfr54urlH6kfthuTVcg6i68Ncmsda1QKCJ4xZfO/Lj/OI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:10c3:: with SMTP id k3mr3103941lfg.33.1592355913514; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:05:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:05:01 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: The IESG , bfd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000955f3805a83d4001" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 19:38:40 -0700 X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 01:05:22 -0000 --000000000000955f3805a83d4001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000955f3505a83d40ff" --000000000000955f3505a83d40ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeff, thank you for providing continued support and guidance. Please find my notes in-lined under tag GIM>>. Attached are the new working version and its diff to -12. There are two remaining Open Issues - 7 and 9. I much appreciate your considerations and suggestions. Regards, Greg On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:01 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > [Apologies on further delay. The best way to cause unexpected work is to > offer a personal deadline to have something done.] > > Greg and the IESG, > > This update is vs. version -12 of the draft. > > General summary: Almost ready to go. Multiple issues are resolved. > Pending > items flagged here should be addressed. Once addressed, we'll ask the IE= SG > to take this up again. > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:17:05PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > Much like the BFD Working Group discussion on the BFD for vxlan feature= , > the > > IESG review for the draft has reached a stage where it is difficult to > > determine what the related actions are. (IESG take note for tools > > discussion!) > > > > This email is an attempt to kick the conversation back into gear. > > > > My notes here are based on the current status of the document tracked > here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ballot/ > > > > My comments on the draft are based on the -10 version of the draft as > > currently published. > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1 > > > > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working gro= up > > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is how th= is > > impacts existing implementations. > > This issue is resolved. > > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 2: Document Status should be Informational rather than > Proposed > > Standard. > > > > Proposed Action: Greg should make the document Informational. Prior WG > > discussion suggested that we don't really care what level it should be > at, > > and had actually requested IESG guidance long ago via our AD. > > This action is pending. > GIM>> Done > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 3: dst IP/MAC assignment procedures for inner VXLAN headers. > > (DISCUSS via Benjamin K.) Specifically per-VNI form rather than strict= ly > > VTEP-to-VTEP mode. > > > > Issue Comment 1 (Benjamin K.): This is "a namespace grab in what is > > essentially the tenant's namespace". > > > > Issue Comment 2 (Jeff H.): Joel Halpern flagged this repeatedly as well > as > > part of directorate review. > > > > Issue Comment 3 (Benjamin K.): "management VNI does not suffer from thi= s > > namespacing issue". > > > > Issue Comment 4 (Jeff H./Benjamin K.): The concept of a "management VNI= " > is > > not supported by existing standards work, but is accepted as a common > > implementation behavior. > > > > Issue Comment 5: A significant exploration of this set of issues is > > documented in the following thread: > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/SfXfu3pCh9BxaRFrXbEOgGt6xjE= / > > > > Proposed Action: Limit the Internet-Draft's applicability to verifying > > connectivity to the management VNI. "All other uses of the > specification to > > test toward other vxlan endpoints are out of scope." > > > > In reviewing the thread, my reading of the comments from Santosh, Anoop= , > and > > Dinesh are effectively "don't break existing implementations". There i= s > > acknowledge among those in the discusssion that numbering space > collisions > > between the protocol codepoints chosen to run as endpoints for the BFD > for > > vxlan session and the tenant space are undesirable. It is generally > agreed > > in the thread (IMO) that for the "management VNI" case that this is not > > problematic, although the details of provisioning are still specific to > the > > implementation. > > > > By setting the case aside where a test to a specific VTEP may have tena= nt > > namespace collisions, the document can be cleaned of a lot of unnecessa= ry > > edge cases that are difficult to generally resolve. Implementations th= at > > may choose to permit sessions to non-management VNIs will have need to > > resolve how to deal with collisions. > > The suggested action was taken. The document now refers only to the > management VNI, and offers a default value for that VNI number. > This should resolve a significant number of issues. > > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 4: "multicast service node" text (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Incorporate suggested text from Benjamin K. to clarify > text > > in -10. > > This issue is resolved. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 5: Comma parsing issue (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept Benjamin's suggested changes. (RFC Editor will > win > > the day here though!) > > This action is pending. > GIM>> Followed Benjamin's suggestion and replaced come with "that are": This document describes the use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) protocol to enable monitoring continuity of the path between VXLAN VTEPs that are performing as Network Virtualization Endpoints, and/or availability of a replicator MSN using a Management VNI (Section 4). > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 6: "Section 3, MUST NOT be forwarded to a VM" (COMMENT via > > Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: The fate of this issue is tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This action is still open. > GIM>> Deleted the sentence. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 7: "::FFFF:7F00:0/104 IPv6 range" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This action is still pending. > GIM>> There are two references to this IPv6 range. I think that the document should give a recommendation on what address to use as the destination IP address. As we've discussed with Adam Roach, only ::ffff: 127.0.0.1/128 has host loopback meaning in IPv6. I propose to change throughout the text from "one of the addresses from IPv6 range" to "::ffff: 127.0.0.1/128 for IPv6". > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 8: "Section 4: MUST ensure that the BFD Control packet is no= t > > forwarded to a tenant but is processed locally at the remote VTEP" > (COMMENT > > via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This action is still pending and perhaps requires further discussion. > > Benjamin's point was: > "This has to be 100% reliable, and I think we need to provide some > example mechanism that has that property even if we don't mandate that > it be the only allowed mechanism." > > The motivation here was that when this specification was intended to > address > a fully generalized BFD for vxlan for arbitrary VNIs, there was a strong > need to say "do not forward the BFD traffic to the tenant". > > For the now default scenario of only the management VNI, this text may be > adequate. Benjamin should look at the current document and decide if the > scenario is still of concern. > GIM>> No changes for now. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 9: "Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC > > addresses." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > In -12, we now have the following text: > "Destination MAC: since a Management VNI is the VNI that does > not have any tenants, the value of this field is not analyzed > by the receiving VTEP." > > For the management VNI, this text is true. However, it likely requires a > value that is described in the specification. > > Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known and th= e > text would become: > > "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, will > have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value > X:X:X:X:X > SHOULD be used in this field." > > SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for permitting > the > flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is desired= , > MUST might be inappropriate. > GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to not use the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus SHOULD in the text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC address? > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 10: "The details of how the MAC address is obtained are > outside > > the scope of this document." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: None. Reason 1: If we go with only the management VNI= , > > provisioning remains an easy answer. Reason 2: If we go with VNI-to-VN= I > > mode, it's not unreasonable for the environment to claim a MAC address. > > This is no different than a switch itself. Collisions would be handled > via > > updated configuration. > > This issue is resolved by only describing the management VNI. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 11: "dst IP header MUST NOT be one of tenant's" (COMMENT via > Benjamin > > K.) > > > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): The loopback range as a destination would serve to > > catch BFD traffic in either VNI-to-VNI or VTEP-to-VTEP mode. I think > this > > is more clearly understood after the IESG reviewed the existing > mechanisms > > using the loopback address range in existing RFCs. > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > In the current text for -12, the host loopback range serves to provide th= e > necessary mechanism. Given the restricted scope of the the management VN= I, > I believe the unchanged text is sufficient. > GIM>> Thank you. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 12: "Section 5, BFD dst mac collision with tenant" (COMMENT > via > > Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > I believe the text in -12 describing only the management VNI resolves thi= s > issue. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 13: "The UDP destination port and the TTL of the inner IP > packet > > MUST be validated to determine if the received packet can be processed = by > > BFD." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Provide reference to RFC 5880/5881 sections covering > > existing BFD procedure. Do not copy and paste from them. > > The text in -12 is: > > "Validation of TTL / Hop Limit of the inner IP packet, as long as the > related considerations for BFD control packet demultiplexing and > authentication, is performed as described in Section 5 [RFC5881]." > > This text is slightly awkward English, but I believe covers the intent. > I suggest rewording this to: > > "The received packet's inner IP payload is then validated according to > Sections 4 and 5 in [RFC5881]." > GIM>> This text is the result of my discussion with Carlos. I'm accepting Jeff's proposal and hope Carlos will agree. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 14: "nits ... then the BFD session" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.= ) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept grammar correction. > > This issue is no longer relevant in -12. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 15: "Section 6" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. In particular, this section attempts to > > justify VNI-to-VNI mode poorly. > > This issue is no longer relevant in -12. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 16: "Section 9" regarding mis-forwarding/filtering of BFD > traffic > > toward tenant (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > I believe the new text, describing only the management VNI, obviates this > comment. > > > --- > > > > (Alvaro's DISCUSSes are covered by the above.) > > > > (Alvaro acknowledged that his COMMENTS were cleared on December 25, 201= 9) > > > > (Eric V's DISCUSS points are covered by prior open points regarding: > > - TTL (see Open Issue 1) > > - Mapped IPv6 addresses were covered in discussion with IESG about > existing > > RFC behavior for this range. > > - The mismatch between document IANA action and shepherd writeup is an > > artifact of document changes since the shepherd writeup had happened= . > > The document currently has no open IANA actions. > > - Section 9 issues about TTL were addressed in -09 of the document.) > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 17: "RFC 5881 (BFD) states that it applies to IPv4/IPv6 > tunnels, > > may I infer that this document is only required to address the Ethernet > > encapsulation ? I.e. specifying the Ethernet MAC addresses?" (COMMENT > via > > Eric V.) > > > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): RFC 5881 addresses single-hop "that is associated > with > > an incoming interface". vxlan requires additional demultiplexing based > on > > packet contents and thus the comment is not fully applicable. This > document > > (draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan) is intended to cover the vxlan protocol > encapsulation > > for BFD. > > > > Proposed Action: No action required. > > No action was taken. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 18: "BFD session per VXLAN VNI" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This issue should be resolved by only describing the management VNI in -1= 2. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 19: "Section 4...FCS" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept suggested change to "Outer Ethernet FCS"? > > This action is pending. > GIM>> In Figure 2 s/Outer FCS/Outer Ethernet FCS/ > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 20: "using the src mac as the dst mac" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > > > Proposed Action: ? I'm unclear what the proposal and comment is here. > > It is unclear what action was requested. > > > --- > > > > (TTL issues noted by Eric V. addressed in Open Issue 1.) > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 21: "throttling of BFD control packets" (COMMENT via Roman D= .) > > > > Proposed Action: The section on throttling is written in a confusing > manner > > and is in need of a re-write. > > > > In particular, what's unclear is what is doing the throttling and why? > If > > the comment is intended to say that some forms of rate-limiting of the > vxlan > > traffic between two systems is in place that it may impact BFD, it shou= ld > > say that. And perhaps once said, omit giving "advice". "If it hurts, > don't > > do that." > > These issues were addressed by referring to existing security > considerations > in RFCs 5880, 5881, and 7348. > > > --- > > > > (COMMENTS from Roman D. addressed in -10 and earlier: > > - citing specific security considerations applicability > > - nits > > ) > > > > (COMMENT from Suresh K. covered in open issues above.) > > > > (COMMENT from Warren K. regardig loopback network range discussed above= .) > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 22: "terminology isn't" (COMMENT via Warren K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Either rename the section "acronyms used in this > document" > > or expand the section to cover the terminology. > > This action is still pending. > GIM>> Change the title of the sub-section s/Terminology/Acronyms/ > > > --- > > > > (Mirja K. indirects a number of issues to "See Olivier's TSV-ART review= ", > > which is present in this message: > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/y3xDkvpT-ZodhcaBRHNOSDVByA8= / > ) > > > > Open Issue 23: "follow same lookup path needs more explanation" > > > > Proposed Action: Add a sentence explaining that this is to ensure that > the > > encapsulated BFD traffic requires following the equivalent data path to > > protect the resource" > > Section 5 now contains: > "BFD packets MUST be encapsulated and sent to a remote VTEP as > explained in this section. Implementations SHOULD ensure that the > BFD packets follow the same forwarding path as VXLAN data packets > within the sender system." > > I believe this addresses the issue. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 24: "Discuss ECMP considerations" (TSV-ART via Olivier B.) > > > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): I believe this came up in the message thread, but > base > > BFD also has similar unclear ECMP behaviors. The working group has > avoided > > trying to standardize anything regarding ECMP since it gets very > > implementation specific. Some vendors will go out of their way to do > things > > to mitigate ECMP considerations when BFD is in place; others simply > ignore > > it. > > > > Proposed Action: Unclear. None? > > No action has been taken here. I believe this is appropriate. > > > --- > > > > (Minor issues report by Olivier B. that have been addressed in -10 or > > earlier: > > - p2p vxlan tunnel wording > > - VNI has been added to section 2.1 > > - "figure 1 could take less space" - not addressed. > > - section 4 flattened to remove unnecessary sub-sections > > - "dedicated mac" address no longer in current versions of document > > - "v4 in v6 / v6 in v4, etc." - intentionally unspecified since > arbitrary > > encapsulations are supported by specification. Implementations may > have > > specific limitations. > > - "section 5 dedicated mac" no longer in the document > > - "decapsulation procedure reference" I believe has been clarified.) > > > > (Mirja's comment on status is covered by Open Issue 2) > > > > (Comments from Barry L. addressed: > > - "forming up" > > - bfd packet/vtep packets/vteps plurality agreement. > > - "may be configured" clarified. > > - Section 4.1 "of") > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 25: "leading to a false negative" (COMMENT via Barry L.) > > > > Proposed Action: The underlying concern in this sentence is that BFD > packets > > must not be mis-delivered to VMs since there will be no BFD machinery > > present in that VM to execute the BFD procedures and thus sessions will > > drop. Possible action is to simply delete this sentence since it > > prematurely anticipates procedures later described in the document. > > This action is still pending. > GIM>> The sentence is now removed in response to Open Issue 6. > > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 26: "loopback range through a firewall" (COMMENT via Barry L= .) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept suggested rewording. > > This action is still pending. > GIM>> I think that Barry's comment has been already captured in the -12. Barry wrote: It is RECOMMENDED to allow addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if it is used as the destination IP address in the inner IP header, and the destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881]. I THINK the antecedent for =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D is meant to be =E2=80=9Cadd= resses from the loopback range=E2=80=9D, though because of the number mismatch it looks like the ant= ecedent is =E2=80=9Ca firewall=E2=80=9D. One fix is to change =E2=80=9Caddresses=E2= =80=9D to =E2=80=9Can address=E2=80=9D, correcting the number error, but that leaves the ambiguity. Maybe betterto make it =E2=80= =9Conly if they are used as destination IP addresses=E2=80=9D. Also, remove the comma= . The current text: It is RECOMMENDED to allow addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if they are used as the destination IP addresses in the inner IP header and the destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881]. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 27: "Section 4...addresses the scenario" (COMMENT via Barry > L.) > > > > Proposed Action: This sentence needs to be reworded. > > This issue is addressed by referring to GTSM mechanisms per other > discussion. > > > --- > > > > (Comments from Adam R. addressed: > > - Form of ipv6 mapped address. > > - Usage of loopback network addresses compared to prior RFCs discusse= d > in > > thread with IESG.) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Jeff > > From jhaas as part of reviewing -12: > > --- > > Section 7 should be rewritten as: > 7. BFD Echo Function > > Support for the BFD Echo function [RFC5880], Section 3.2, is outside the > scope of this document. > > --- > > There remain a few minor English article agreement issues in the text, bu= t > these can be deferred to the RFC Editor's preference for resolution. > > -- Jeff > > > --000000000000955f3505a83d40ff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jeff,
thank you for providing cont= inued support and guidance. Please find my notes in-lined under tag GIM>= >. Attached are the new working version and its diff to -12. There are t= wo remaining Open Issues - 7 and 9. I much appreciate your considerations a= nd suggestions.

Regards,
Greg

On Tu= e, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:01 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
[Apologies on further delay.=C2=A0 The best way to cause u= nexpected work is to
offer a personal deadline to have something done.]

Greg and the IESG,

This update is vs. version -12 of the draft.

General summary: Almost ready to go.=C2=A0 Multiple issues are resolved.=C2= =A0 Pending
items flagged here should be addressed.=C2=A0 Once addressed, we'll ask= the IESG
to take this up again.

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:17:05PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
> Much like the BFD Working Group discussion on the BFD for vxlan featur= e, the
> IESG review for the draft has reached a stage where it is difficult to=
> determine what the related actions are.=C2=A0 (IESG take note for tool= s
> discussion!)
>
> This email is an attempt to kick the conversation back into gear.
>
> My notes here are based on the current status of the document tracked = here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ballot/
>
> My comments on the draft are based on the -10 version of the draft as<= br> > currently published.
>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1
>
> Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working gr= oup
> suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized.=C2=A0 The expected concern is = how this
> impacts existing implementations.

This issue is resolved.

>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 2: Document Status should be Informational rather than Prop= osed
> Standard.
>
> Proposed Action: Greg should make the document Informational.=C2=A0 Pr= ior WG
> discussion suggested that we don't really care what level it shoul= d be at,
> and had actually requested IESG guidance long ago via our AD.

This action is pending.
GIM>> Done=C2=A0

> ---
>
> Open Issue 3: dst IP/MAC assignment procedures for inner VXLAN headers= .
> (DISCUSS via Benjamin K.)=C2=A0 Specifically per-VNI form rather than = strictly
> VTEP-to-VTEP mode.
>
> Issue Comment 1 (Benjamin K.): This is "a namespace grab in what = is
> essentially the tenant's namespace".
>
> Issue Comment 2 (Jeff H.): Joel Halpern flagged this repeatedly as wel= l as
> part of directorate review.
>
> Issue Comment 3 (Benjamin K.): "management VNI does not suffer fr= om this
> namespacing issue".
>
> Issue Comment 4 (Jeff H./Benjamin K.): The concept of a "manageme= nt VNI" is
> not supported by existing standards work, but is accepted as a common<= br> > implementation behavior.
>
> Issue Comment 5: A significant exploration of this set of issues is > documented in the following thread:
> https://mailarchive.i= etf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/SfXfu3pCh9BxaRFrXbEOgGt6xjE/
>
> Proposed Action: Limit the Internet-Draft's applicability to verif= ying
> connectivity to the management VNI.=C2=A0 "All other uses of the = specification to
> test toward other vxlan endpoints are out of scope."
>
> In reviewing the thread, my reading of the comments from Santosh, Anoo= p, and
> Dinesh are effectively "don't break existing implementations&= quot;.=C2=A0 There is
> acknowledge among those in the discusssion that numbering space collis= ions
> between the protocol codepoints chosen to run as endpoints for the BFD= for
> vxlan session and the tenant space are undesirable.=C2=A0 It is genera= lly agreed
> in the thread (IMO) that for the "management VNI" case that = this is not
> problematic, although the details of provisioning are still specific t= o the
> implementation.=C2=A0
>
> By setting the case aside where a test to a specific VTEP may have ten= ant
> namespace collisions, the document can be cleaned of a lot of unnecess= ary
> edge cases that are difficult to generally resolve.=C2=A0 Implementati= ons that
> may choose to permit sessions to non-management VNIs will have need to=
> resolve how to deal with collisions.=C2=A0

The suggested action was taken.=C2=A0 The document now refers only to the management VNI, and offers a default value for that VNI number.
This should resolve a significant number of issues.

>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 4: "multicast service node" text (COMMENT via Ben= jamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: Incorporate suggested text from Benjamin K. to clarif= y text
> in -10.

This issue is resolved.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 5: Comma parsing issue (COMMENT via Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: Accept Benjamin's suggested changes.=C2=A0 (RFC E= ditor will win
> the day here though!)

This action is pending.
GIM>> Followed Benjamin&= #39;s suggestion and replaced come with "that are":
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0This document describes the use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detec= tion
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(BFD) protocol to enable monitoring continuity of the = path between
=C2=A0 =C2=A0VXLAN VTEPs that are performing as Network Vir= tualization Endpoints,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and/or availability of a replicator = MSN using a Management VNI
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Section 4).

> ---
>
> Open Issue 6: "Section 3, MUST NOT be forwarded to a VM" (CO= MMENT via
> Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: The fate of this issue is tied to Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

This action is still open.=C2=A0
GIM>> Deleted = the sentence.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 7: "::FFFF:7F00:0/104 IPv6 range" (COMMENT via Be= njamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

This action is still pending.
GIM>> There are t= wo references to this IPv6 range. I think that the document should give a r= ecommendation on what address to use as the destination IP address. As we&#= 39;ve discussed with=C2=A0 Adam Roach, only ::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 has host loopback meaning in IPv6. I propose to = change throughout the text from "one of the addresses from IPv6 range&= quot; to "::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 fo= r IPv6".

> ---
>
> Open Issue 8: "Section 4: MUST ensure that the BFD Control packet= is not
> forwarded to a tenant but is processed locally at the remote VTEP"= ; (COMMENT
> via Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

This action is still pending and perhaps requires further discussion.

Benjamin's point was:
"This has to be 100% reliable, and I think we need to provide some
example mechanism that has that property even if we don't mandate that<= br> it be the only allowed mechanism."

The motivation here was that when this specification was intended to addres= s
a fully generalized BFD for vxlan for arbitrary VNIs, there was a strong need to say "do not forward the BFD traffic to the tenant".

For the now default scenario of only the management VNI, this text may be adequate.=C2=A0 Benjamin should look at the current document and decide if = the
scenario is still of concern.
GIM>> No changes for now.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

> ---
>
> Open Issue 9: "Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant= 's MAC
> addresses." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

In -12, we now have the following text:
"Destination MAC: since a Management VNI is the VNI that does
not have any tenants, the value of this field is not analyzed
by the receiving VTEP."

For the management VNI, this text is true.=C2=A0 However, it likely require= s a
value that is described in the specification.

Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known and the<= br> text would become:

"Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, w= ill
have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic.=C2=A0 The value X:X= :X:X:X
SHOULD be used in this field."

SHOULD might need to be MUST.=C2=A0 Since a partial motivation for permitti= ng the
flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is desired,<= br> MUST might be inappropriate.
GIM>> Accepted the = suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to not use the Management VNI = is permitted in the specification and thus SHOULD in the text is consistent= =C2=A0with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC address?

> ---
>
> Open Issue 10: "The details of how the MAC address is obtained ar= e outside
> the scope of this document." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: None.=C2=A0 Reason 1: If we go with only the manageme= nt VNI,
> provisioning remains an easy answer.=C2=A0 Reason 2: If we go with VNI= -to-VNI
> mode, it's not unreasonable for the environment to claim a MAC add= ress.
> This is no different than a switch itself.=C2=A0 Collisions would be h= andled via
> updated configuration.

This issue is resolved by only describing the management VNI.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 11: "dst IP header MUST NOT be one of tenant's&quo= t; (COMMENT via Benjamin
> K.)
>
> Comment 1 (Jeff H.): The loopback range as a destination would serve t= o
> catch BFD traffic in either VNI-to-VNI or VTEP-to-VTEP mode.=C2=A0 I t= hink this
> is more clearly understood after the IESG reviewed the existing mechan= isms
> using the loopback address range in existing RFCs.
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

In the current text for -12, the host loopback range serves to provide the<= br> necessary mechanism.=C2=A0 Given the restricted scope of the the management= VNI,
I believe the unchanged text is sufficient.
GIM>>= ; Thank you.=C2=A0

> ---
>
> Open Issue 12: "Section 5, BFD dst mac collision with tenant"= ; (COMMENT via
> Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

I believe the text in -12 describing only the management VNI resolves this<= br> issue.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 13: "The UDP destination port and the TTL of the inner= IP packet
> MUST be validated to determine if the received packet can be processed= by
> BFD." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: Provide reference to RFC 5880/5881 sections covering<= br> > existing BFD procedure.=C2=A0 Do not copy and paste from them.

The text in -12 is:

"Validation of TTL / Hop Limit of the inner IP packet, as long as the<= br> related considerations for BFD control packet demultiplexing and
authentication, is performed as described in Section 5 [RFC5881]."

This text is slightly awkward English, but I believe covers the intent.
I suggest rewording this to:

"The received packet's inner IP payload is then validated accordin= g to
Sections 4 and 5 in [RFC5881]."
GIM>> This = text is the result of my discussion with Carlos. I'm accepting Jeff'= ;s proposal and hope Carlos will agree.=C2=A0

> ---
>
> Open Issue 14: "nits ... then the BFD session" (COMMENT via = Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: Accept grammar correction.

This issue is no longer relevant in -12.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 15: "Section 6" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.=C2=A0 In particular, this section attempt= s to
> justify VNI-to-VNI mode poorly.=C2=A0

This issue is no longer relevant in -12.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 16: "Section 9" regarding mis-forwarding/filterin= g of BFD traffic
> toward tenant (COMMENT via Benjamin K.)
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

I believe the new text, describing only the management VNI, obviates this comment.

> ---
>
> (Alvaro's DISCUSSes are covered by the above.)
>
> (Alvaro acknowledged that his COMMENTS were cleared on December 25, 20= 19)
>
> (Eric V's DISCUSS points are covered by prior open points regardin= g:
>=C2=A0 - TTL (see Open Issue 1)
>=C2=A0 - Mapped IPv6 addresses were covered in discussion with IESG abo= ut existing
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC behavior for this range.
>=C2=A0 - The mismatch between document IANA action and shepherd writeup= is an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 artifact of document changes since the shepherd writeup h= ad happened.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The document currently has no open IANA actions.
>=C2=A0 - Section 9 issues about TTL were addressed in -09 of the docume= nt.)
>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 17: "RFC 5881 (BFD) states that it applies to IPv4/IPv= 6 tunnels,
> may I infer that this document is only required to address the Etherne= t
> encapsulation ? I.e.=C2=A0 specifying the Ethernet MAC addresses?"= ; (COMMENT via
> Eric V.)
>
> Comment 1 (Jeff H.): RFC 5881 addresses single-hop "that is assoc= iated with
> an incoming interface".=C2=A0 vxlan requires additional demultipl= exing based on
> packet contents and thus the comment is not fully applicable.=C2=A0 Th= is document
> (draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan) is intended to cover the vxlan protocol encapsu= lation
> for BFD.
>
> Proposed Action: No action required.

No action was taken.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 18: "BFD session per VXLAN VNI" (COMMENT via Eric= V.)
>
> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open Issue 3.
> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not<= br> > relevant and may be deleted.

This issue should be resolved by only describing the management VNI in -12.=

> ---
>
> Open Issue 19: "Section 4...FCS" (COMMENT via Eric V.)
>
> Proposed Action: Accept suggested change to "Outer Ethernet FCS&q= uot;?

This action is pending.
GIM>> In Figure 2 s/Oute= r FCS/Outer Ethernet FCS/=C2=A0

> ---
>
> Open Issue 20: "using the src mac as the dst mac" (COMMENT v= ia Eric V.)
>
> Proposed Action: ?=C2=A0 I'm unclear what the proposal and comment= is here.

It is unclear what action was requested.

> ---
>
> (TTL issues noted by Eric V. addressed in Open Issue 1.)
>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 21: "throttling of BFD control packets" (COMMENT = via Roman D.)
>
> Proposed Action: The section on throttling is written in a confusing m= anner
> and is in need of a re-write.
>
> In particular, what's unclear is what is doing the throttling and = why?=C2=A0 If
> the comment is intended to say that some forms of rate-limiting of the= vxlan
> traffic between two systems is in place that it may impact BFD, it sho= uld
> say that.=C2=A0 And perhaps once said, omit giving "advice".= =C2=A0 "If it hurts, don't
> do that."

These issues were addressed by referring to existing security consideration= s
in RFCs 5880, 5881, and 7348.

> ---
>
> (COMMENTS from Roman D. addressed in -10 and earlier:
>=C2=A0 - citing specific security considerations applicability
>=C2=A0 - nits
> )
>
> (COMMENT from Suresh K. covered in open issues above.)
>
> (COMMENT from Warren K. regardig loopback network range discussed abov= e.)
>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 22: "terminology isn't" (COMMENT via Warren K= .)
>
> Proposed Action: Either rename the section "acronyms used in this= document"
> or expand the section to cover the terminology.

This action is still pending.
GIM>> Change the t= itle of the sub-section s/Terminology/Acronyms/=C2=A0

> ---
>
> (Mirja K. indirects a number of issues to "See Olivier's TSV-= ART review",
> which is present in this message:
> https://mailarchive.i= etf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/y3xDkvpT-ZodhcaBRHNOSDVByA8/)
>
> Open Issue 23: "follow same lookup path needs more explanation&qu= ot;
>
> Proposed Action: Add a sentence explaining that this is to ensure that= the
> encapsulated BFD traffic requires following the equivalent data path t= o
> protect the resource"

Section 5 now contains:
"BFD packets MUST be encapsulated and sent to a remote VTEP as
explained in this section.=C2=A0 Implementations SHOULD ensure that the
BFD packets follow the same forwarding path as VXLAN data packets
within the sender system."

I believe this addresses the issue.

> ---
>
> Open Issue 24: "Discuss ECMP considerations" (TSV-ART via Ol= ivier B.)
>
> Comment 1 (Jeff H.): I believe this came up in the message thread, but= base
> BFD also has similar unclear ECMP behaviors.=C2=A0 The working group h= as avoided
> trying to standardize anything regarding ECMP since it gets very
> implementation specific.=C2=A0 Some vendors will go out of their way t= o do things
> to mitigate ECMP considerations when BFD is in place; others simply ig= nore
> it.
>
> Proposed Action: Unclear.=C2=A0 None?

No action has been taken here.=C2=A0 I believe this is appropriate.

> ---
>
> (Minor issues report by Olivier B. that have been addressed in -10 or<= br> >=C2=A0 earlier:
>=C2=A0 - p2p vxlan tunnel wording
>=C2=A0 - VNI has been added to section 2.1
>=C2=A0 - "figure 1 could take less space" - not addressed. >=C2=A0 - section 4 flattened to remove unnecessary sub-sections
>=C2=A0 - "dedicated mac" address no longer in current version= s of document
>=C2=A0 - "v4 in v6 / v6 in v4, etc." - intentionally unspecif= ied since arbitrary
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 encapsulations are supported by specification.=C2=A0 Impl= ementations may have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specific limitations.
>=C2=A0 - "section 5 dedicated mac" no longer in the document<= br> >=C2=A0 - "decapsulation procedure reference" I believe has be= en clarified.)
>
> (Mirja's comment on status is covered by Open Issue 2)
>
> (Comments from Barry L. addressed:
>=C2=A0 - "forming up"
>=C2=A0 - bfd packet/vtep packets/vteps plurality agreement.
>=C2=A0 - "may be configured" clarified.
>=C2=A0 - Section 4.1 "of")
>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 25: "leading to a false negative" (COMMENT via Ba= rry L.)
>
> Proposed Action: The underlying concern in this sentence is that BFD p= ackets
> must not be mis-delivered to VMs since there will be no BFD machinery<= br> > present in that VM to execute the BFD procedures and thus sessions wil= l
> drop.=C2=A0 Possible action is to simply delete this sentence since it=
> prematurely anticipates procedures later described in the document.
This action is still pending.
GIM>> The sentence= is now removed in response to Open Issue 6.

>
> ---
>
> Open Issue 26: "loopback range through a firewall" (COMMENT = via Barry L.)
>
> Proposed Action: Accept suggested rewording.

This action is still pending.
GIM>> I think that= Barry's comment has been already captured=20 in the -12. Barry wrote:
=C2=A0It is RECOMMENDED to allow
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if it i= s
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used as the destination IP address in the inner IP header= , and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881].
I THINK the antecedent for =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D is meant to be =E2=80= =9Caddresses from the loopback
range=E2=80=9D, though because of the num= ber mismatch it looks like the antecedent is
=E2=80=9Ca firewall=E2=80= =9D.=C2=A0 One fix is to change =E2=80=9Caddresses=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Can = address=E2=80=9D, correcting the
number error, but that leaves the ambig= uity.=C2=A0 Maybe betterto make it =E2=80=9Conly if
they are used as des= tination IP addresses=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 Also, remove the comma.
The current text:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It is RECOMMENDED to allow
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if they= are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used as the destination IP addresses in the inner IP h= eader and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881]= .

> ---
>
> Open Issue 27: "Section 4...addresses the scenario" (COMMENT= via Barry L.)
>
> Proposed Action: This sentence needs to be reworded.

This issue is addressed by referring to GTSM mechanisms per other
discussion.

> ---
>
> (Comments from Adam R. addressed:
>=C2=A0 - Form of ipv6 mapped address.
>=C2=A0 - Usage of loopback network=C2=A0 addresses compared to prior RF= Cs discussed in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 thread with IESG.)
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Jeff

>From jhaas as part of reviewing -12:

---

Section 7 should be rewritten as:
7. BFD Echo Function

Support for the BFD Echo function [RFC5880], Section 3.2, is outside the scope of this document.

---

There remain a few minor English article agreement issues in the text, but<= br> these can be deferred to the RFC Editor's preference for resolution.
-- Jeff


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(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E19413A0E7F; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 05H4gexv021916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 17 Jun 2020 00:42:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:42:40 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: Greg Mirsky , iesg@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG , bfd-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status Message-ID: <20200617044240.GF11992@kduck.mit.edu> References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 04:42:51 -0000 Hi Jeff, A big "thank you!" for continuing to track the many issues, I think I have a sense for the effort involved, but it makes a huge difference. Since I was mentioned, a couple comments inline. On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 05:10:57PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > [Apologies on further delay. The best way to cause unexpected work is to > offer a personal deadline to have something done.] > > Greg and the IESG, > > This update is vs. version -12 of the draft. > > General summary: Almost ready to go. Multiple issues are resolved. Pending > items flagged here should be addressed. Once addressed, we'll ask the IESG > to take this up again. > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 05:17:05PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > Much like the BFD Working Group discussion on the BFD for vxlan feature, the > > IESG review for the draft has reached a stage where it is difficult to > > determine what the related actions are. (IESG take note for tools > > discussion!) > > > > This email is an attempt to kick the conversation back into gear. > > > > My notes here are based on the current status of the document tracked here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ballot/ > > > > My comments on the draft are based on the -10 version of the draft as > > currently published. > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit = 1 > > > > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working group > > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is how this > > impacts existing implementations. > > This issue is resolved. > > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 2: Document Status should be Informational rather than Proposed > > Standard. > > > > Proposed Action: Greg should make the document Informational. Prior WG > > discussion suggested that we don't really care what level it should be at, > > and had actually requested IESG guidance long ago via our AD. > > This action is pending. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 3: dst IP/MAC assignment procedures for inner VXLAN headers. > > (DISCUSS via Benjamin K.) Specifically per-VNI form rather than strictly > > VTEP-to-VTEP mode. > > > > Issue Comment 1 (Benjamin K.): This is "a namespace grab in what is > > essentially the tenant's namespace". > > > > Issue Comment 2 (Jeff H.): Joel Halpern flagged this repeatedly as well as > > part of directorate review. > > > > Issue Comment 3 (Benjamin K.): "management VNI does not suffer from this > > namespacing issue". > > > > Issue Comment 4 (Jeff H./Benjamin K.): The concept of a "management VNI" is > > not supported by existing standards work, but is accepted as a common > > implementation behavior. > > > > Issue Comment 5: A significant exploration of this set of issues is > > documented in the following thread: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/SfXfu3pCh9BxaRFrXbEOgGt6xjE/ > > > > Proposed Action: Limit the Internet-Draft's applicability to verifying > > connectivity to the management VNI. "All other uses of the specification to > > test toward other vxlan endpoints are out of scope." > > > > In reviewing the thread, my reading of the comments from Santosh, Anoop, and > > Dinesh are effectively "don't break existing implementations". There is > > acknowledge among those in the discusssion that numbering space collisions > > between the protocol codepoints chosen to run as endpoints for the BFD for > > vxlan session and the tenant space are undesirable. It is generally agreed > > in the thread (IMO) that for the "management VNI" case that this is not > > problematic, although the details of provisioning are still specific to the > > implementation. > > > > By setting the case aside where a test to a specific VTEP may have tenant > > namespace collisions, the document can be cleaned of a lot of unnecessary > > edge cases that are difficult to generally resolve. Implementations that > > may choose to permit sessions to non-management VNIs will have need to > > resolve how to deal with collisions. > > The suggested action was taken. The document now refers only to the > management VNI, and offers a default value for that VNI number. > This should resolve a significant number of issues. Indeed, I think that simplifies things on many fronts. > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 4: "multicast service node" text (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Incorporate suggested text from Benjamin K. to clarify text > > in -10. > > This issue is resolved. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 5: Comma parsing issue (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept Benjamin's suggested changes. (RFC Editor will win > > the day here though!) > > This action is pending. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 6: "Section 3, MUST NOT be forwarded to a VM" (COMMENT via > > Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: The fate of this issue is tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This action is still open. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 7: "::FFFF:7F00:0/104 IPv6 range" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This action is still pending. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 8: "Section 4: MUST ensure that the BFD Control packet is not > > forwarded to a tenant but is processed locally at the remote VTEP" (COMMENT > > via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This action is still pending and perhaps requires further discussion. > > Benjamin's point was: > "This has to be 100% reliable, and I think we need to provide some > example mechanism that has that property even if we don't mandate that > it be the only allowed mechanism." > > The motivation here was that when this specification was intended to address > a fully generalized BFD for vxlan for arbitrary VNIs, there was a strong > need to say "do not forward the BFD traffic to the tenant". > > For the now default scenario of only the management VNI, this text may be > adequate. Benjamin should look at the current document and decide if the > scenario is still of concern. I will defer looking at the document until the other couple things are ready, but I'm pretty confident that this should be fine. The normal mechanisms used to keep the management VNI's traffic out of tenant systems will suffice to keep BFD traffic out of tenant systems, so there shouldn't be a need to specify additional mechanism here. > > --- > > > > Open Issue 9: "Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC > > addresses." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > In -12, we now have the following text: > "Destination MAC: since a Management VNI is the VNI that does > not have any tenants, the value of this field is not analyzed > by the receiving VTEP." > > For the management VNI, this text is true. However, it likely requires a > value that is described in the specification. > > Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known and the > text would become: > > "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, will > have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value X:X:X:X:X s/no/one/ or s/no/a/? > SHOULD be used in this field." > > SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for permitting the > flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is desired, > MUST might be inappropriate. IIRC there was mentioned way upstream a range of MAC addresses that we can make allocations from and the procedure to do so. Personally I would prefer MUST but I have a creative enough imagination that I won't object to SHOULD. > > --- > > > > Open Issue 10: "The details of how the MAC address is obtained are outside > > the scope of this document." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: None. Reason 1: If we go with only the management VNI, > > provisioning remains an easy answer. Reason 2: If we go with VNI-to-VNI > > mode, it's not unreasonable for the environment to claim a MAC address. > > This is no different than a switch itself. Collisions would be handled via > > updated configuration. > > This issue is resolved by only describing the management VNI. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 11: "dst IP header MUST NOT be one of tenant's" (COMMENT via Benjamin > > K.) > > > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): The loopback range as a destination would serve to > > catch BFD traffic in either VNI-to-VNI or VTEP-to-VTEP mode. I think this > > is more clearly understood after the IESG reviewed the existing mechanisms > > using the loopback address range in existing RFCs. > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > In the current text for -12, the host loopback range serves to provide the > necessary mechanism. Given the restricted scope of the the management VNI, > I believe the unchanged text is sufficient. That sounds right; I'm pretty sure that concerns over destination IP only came into play when we were using non-management VNIs. Thanks again, Ben > > --- > > > > Open Issue 12: "Section 5, BFD dst mac collision with tenant" (COMMENT via > > Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > I believe the text in -12 describing only the management VNI resolves this > issue. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 13: "The UDP destination port and the TTL of the inner IP packet > > MUST be validated to determine if the received packet can be processed by > > BFD." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Provide reference to RFC 5880/5881 sections covering > > existing BFD procedure. Do not copy and paste from them. > > The text in -12 is: > > "Validation of TTL / Hop Limit of the inner IP packet, as long as the > related considerations for BFD control packet demultiplexing and > authentication, is performed as described in Section 5 [RFC5881]." > > This text is slightly awkward English, but I believe covers the intent. > I suggest rewording this to: > > "The received packet's inner IP payload is then validated according to > Sections 4 and 5 in [RFC5881]." > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 14: "nits ... then the BFD session" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept grammar correction. > > This issue is no longer relevant in -12. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 15: "Section 6" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. In particular, this section attempts to > > justify VNI-to-VNI mode poorly. > > This issue is no longer relevant in -12. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 16: "Section 9" regarding mis-forwarding/filtering of BFD traffic > > toward tenant (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > I believe the new text, describing only the management VNI, obviates this > comment. > > > --- > > > > (Alvaro's DISCUSSes are covered by the above.) > > > > (Alvaro acknowledged that his COMMENTS were cleared on December 25, 2019) > > > > (Eric V's DISCUSS points are covered by prior open points regarding: > > - TTL (see Open Issue 1) > > - Mapped IPv6 addresses were covered in discussion with IESG about existing > > RFC behavior for this range. > > - The mismatch between document IANA action and shepherd writeup is an > > artifact of document changes since the shepherd writeup had happened. > > The document currently has no open IANA actions. > > - Section 9 issues about TTL were addressed in -09 of the document.) > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 17: "RFC 5881 (BFD) states that it applies to IPv4/IPv6 tunnels, > > may I infer that this document is only required to address the Ethernet > > encapsulation ? I.e. specifying the Ethernet MAC addresses?" (COMMENT via > > Eric V.) > > > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): RFC 5881 addresses single-hop "that is associated with > > an incoming interface". vxlan requires additional demultiplexing based on > > packet contents and thus the comment is not fully applicable. This document > > (draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan) is intended to cover the vxlan protocol encapsulation > > for BFD. > > > > Proposed Action: No action required. > > No action was taken. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 18: "BFD session per VXLAN VNI" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > > > Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open Issue 3. > > If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > > relevant and may be deleted. > > This issue should be resolved by only describing the management VNI in -12. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 19: "Section 4...FCS" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept suggested change to "Outer Ethernet FCS"? > > This action is pending. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 20: "using the src mac as the dst mac" (COMMENT via Eric V.) > > > > Proposed Action: ? I'm unclear what the proposal and comment is here. > > It is unclear what action was requested. > > > --- > > > > (TTL issues noted by Eric V. addressed in Open Issue 1.) > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 21: "throttling of BFD control packets" (COMMENT via Roman D.) > > > > Proposed Action: The section on throttling is written in a confusing manner > > and is in need of a re-write. > > > > In particular, what's unclear is what is doing the throttling and why? If > > the comment is intended to say that some forms of rate-limiting of the vxlan > > traffic between two systems is in place that it may impact BFD, it should > > say that. And perhaps once said, omit giving "advice". "If it hurts, don't > > do that." > > These issues were addressed by referring to existing security considerations > in RFCs 5880, 5881, and 7348. > > > --- > > > > (COMMENTS from Roman D. addressed in -10 and earlier: > > - citing specific security considerations applicability > > - nits > > ) > > > > (COMMENT from Suresh K. covered in open issues above.) > > > > (COMMENT from Warren K. regardig loopback network range discussed above.) > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 22: "terminology isn't" (COMMENT via Warren K.) > > > > Proposed Action: Either rename the section "acronyms used in this document" > > or expand the section to cover the terminology. > > This action is still pending. > > > --- > > > > (Mirja K. indirects a number of issues to "See Olivier's TSV-ART review", > > which is present in this message: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/y3xDkvpT-ZodhcaBRHNOSDVByA8/) > > > > Open Issue 23: "follow same lookup path needs more explanation" > > > > Proposed Action: Add a sentence explaining that this is to ensure that the > > encapsulated BFD traffic requires following the equivalent data path to > > protect the resource" > > Section 5 now contains: > "BFD packets MUST be encapsulated and sent to a remote VTEP as > explained in this section. Implementations SHOULD ensure that the > BFD packets follow the same forwarding path as VXLAN data packets > within the sender system." > > I believe this addresses the issue. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 24: "Discuss ECMP considerations" (TSV-ART via Olivier B.) > > > > Comment 1 (Jeff H.): I believe this came up in the message thread, but base > > BFD also has similar unclear ECMP behaviors. The working group has avoided > > trying to standardize anything regarding ECMP since it gets very > > implementation specific. Some vendors will go out of their way to do things > > to mitigate ECMP considerations when BFD is in place; others simply ignore > > it. > > > > Proposed Action: Unclear. None? > > No action has been taken here. I believe this is appropriate. > > > --- > > > > (Minor issues report by Olivier B. that have been addressed in -10 or > > earlier: > > - p2p vxlan tunnel wording > > - VNI has been added to section 2.1 > > - "figure 1 could take less space" - not addressed. > > - section 4 flattened to remove unnecessary sub-sections > > - "dedicated mac" address no longer in current versions of document > > - "v4 in v6 / v6 in v4, etc." - intentionally unspecified since arbitrary > > encapsulations are supported by specification. Implementations may have > > specific limitations. > > - "section 5 dedicated mac" no longer in the document > > - "decapsulation procedure reference" I believe has been clarified.) > > > > (Mirja's comment on status is covered by Open Issue 2) > > > > (Comments from Barry L. addressed: > > - "forming up" > > - bfd packet/vtep packets/vteps plurality agreement. > > - "may be configured" clarified. > > - Section 4.1 "of") > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 25: "leading to a false negative" (COMMENT via Barry L.) > > > > Proposed Action: The underlying concern in this sentence is that BFD packets > > must not be mis-delivered to VMs since there will be no BFD machinery > > present in that VM to execute the BFD procedures and thus sessions will > > drop. Possible action is to simply delete this sentence since it > > prematurely anticipates procedures later described in the document. > > This action is still pending. > > > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 26: "loopback range through a firewall" (COMMENT via Barry L.) > > > > Proposed Action: Accept suggested rewording. > > This action is still pending. > > > --- > > > > Open Issue 27: "Section 4...addresses the scenario" (COMMENT via Barry L.) > > > > Proposed Action: This sentence needs to be reworded. > > This issue is addressed by referring to GTSM mechanisms per other > discussion. > > > --- > > > > (Comments from Adam R. addressed: > > - Form of ipv6 mapped address. > > - Usage of loopback network addresses compared to prior RFCs discussed in > > thread with IESG.) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Jeff > > >From jhaas as part of reviewing -12: > > --- > > Section 7 should be rewritten as: > 7. BFD Echo Function > > Support for the BFD Echo function [RFC5880], Section 3.2, is outside the > scope of this document. > > --- > > There remain a few minor English article agreement issues in the text, but > these can be deferred to the RFC Editor's preference for resolution. > > -- Jeff > > From nobody Wed Jun 17 09:37:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD613A0A80; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:37:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2uiGIbIAsv_x; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 542FB3A0AA3; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id f185so2726634wmf.3; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:37:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AEgjKbEhQ89bS2JE5lF0Oq9lBgf5DYnNT+CLfkekZtM=; b=gx/4coyACugQL+4ow9bP1tMVlleunjKJR04qHuH5iZqPLarIdd+h7J6w6PGphpHeb5 3FjcT0SbX0cizVPhNE64Lr390cvZbDHE6VGlk8KEZeBVo+AkJ1Mkpejmu2hl/+tAg9Z6 QwD3q2P15WOZ4JRteXa+kD8Jx2+RY79us6UIRU5qQvgQKCMfzp929/tF3IoO+YYoHWAx S39umdwwUEipJ8yBlFYyo35FGiaG3CXmPlWpm14IOwOs+MpiUFRU4DPFi9Ja+1moMHsW VJtRsZ0zKYf3nogGJlkeO6iR2Nq0qZjhazs1/q/CiiNNjp2DZyLstpMjdugVmawWB6wd baDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AEgjKbEhQ89bS2JE5lF0Oq9lBgf5DYnNT+CLfkekZtM=; b=S4dual7GL4N+Nu7kxmRPDUFji4Bhgnzk33tVXtNRNOkWfeogT38mPUG1o/N2SZdYT9 ig/GiwijIeR1f3TTu6V9IZ8OjC0v6xUQ8lRNRoxEZ8wn8pOTk/U9iWtbxtfIyviM/s6h Q5I/WZ2Uq+NxqWdPY/89+yiVkpW/xDNComct1PZBbjxyuCD2vw8/vpxVEzxbk+F9yMlP wWXu+yxFWGOtbuF+cInMiT+L+KI5zR7pa6chwNqDtNBHvZlSBMv+Nbx75vaCdMWCkqNh qMETBOFmkM7XxQtVygzLpBCUuFU9AHENoi8SSWG/+JyY0XWViBrrzA0vui0PD5SmLsqS az2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532JVswv7Psrv9ZWMk87n4Ygo/Q6cAQn3IRaBGuDHqxAUJjWo2fR HMWiIXiaVDGrU6PTtXnIoLgRu8u7Duis7NwdcH6aE84P X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzliTMYBUYaSVjeORScqI3rAE2aTHbHtZX3jqS0jNIUH/BiAtJ20AfEahNXOBJbpWvmU8d40rFx7fuJlaI7/s= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:6744:: with SMTP id b65mr9401569wmc.170.1592411863468; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:37:42 -0700 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:37:42 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status To: iesg@ietf.org, Jeffrey Haas , Greg Mirsky Cc: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG , bfd-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 16:37:59 -0000 On June 16, 2020 at 5:01:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: Hi! ... > > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1 > > > > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working gro= up > > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is how thi= s > > impacts existing implementations. > > This issue is resolved. As I had mentioned before [1], the use of 255 should reference rfc5881: the requirement is one from the base spec, not a new one here. Suggestion> =C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with [RFC58= 81]. I am clearing my DISCUSS. Thanks!! Alvaro. [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/aiJW3KjYevY83wEDwVj488FSV= l0/ From nobody Wed Jun 17 11:40:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F413A0AEF; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:40:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cCnssM6dz3fZ; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3FF23A0AE7; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 9so4141446ljc.8; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:40:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Bn1MTw3CNFKMebunhWrHqJdja34bhu9Zw89DjVx5SfI=; b=JahNx+fENPFuU9BEE3pZbs0UC9DIxDSVmsn8EIoxsfSkCGHNHDd5+lJQkdPjWbegqU d9fHKmrIpsLk2QgwSrExc5q1et5n4iaQ+7BZICkVqd2wzHAIoFcMki3eJydmFn+laXu9 xQZrGyuO9lvApzSMi4M1wVKbbNBGGbybkxHh3V/0xd/GKiCS0xUgnikiq14MmtcSpIZX vvkZ4KVKXA54nx23pvW7gOTjGXBICkGArQRGM/tpilw1Naqv7a2oRcmHUh8kanHfScC7 18MMWmfqYfOmdOJFkR6KBnokJ4wP8g7OBRwdcmBSzlhc2nFCyJhJLp8p4dxUJYW5AyFF YsLQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Bn1MTw3CNFKMebunhWrHqJdja34bhu9Zw89DjVx5SfI=; b=e01PXNtSmO3mbF4gn65AtWKlaxlxERv5jh1xoDeS0fZSme3dKC8NxmPPZ4SKcg8ULR DHqDHfzWvaenk5Q0rmPHkY8MsYATE1zZVE7VnuUmGnDBqDnDlEK1vSNcMYe1rFtFmedM oM/2svZ4CSW7IG7TdMlkLseDMOpx8jlRoXsfUemlbUIwTl89osDFk3DGbEJz7S4TLGpX 1cEBXwG6KkUcHcciG+VlZ2bVvGhGG2gJYVyxSTn2p/06Xu2B17SorRwgQQ97sgJPgwei O6j/0qIB6ZRzY2dFM1JY9RP1njtH2vye0uUg2P41ZDL8H3ZVuLBJQJSnDKorN0LAzIBc 8BAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vumcr2Ww4e+o7Zi9RZEMxcx7lGPKJiJeLEa5hBGMqpo3w/R+W HQmlNbpm78Y+aXY5sfwwBYfatKYCSNSj6bvUxmA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwI4uK4Ok1X2Q81nKfb2NniJ79z4OyA7KG5JqMvaucLoFyfacf5lks0QzCPB/4NDqlFHFCF2eULimzucAVuQ4A= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b88c:: with SMTP id r12mr307614ljp.266.1592419251956; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:40:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:40:41 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status To: Alvaro Retana Cc: The IESG , Jeffrey Haas , draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG , bfd-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8b55805a84bff8e" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 18:40:56 -0000 --000000000000d8b55805a84bff8e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Alvaro, thank you for the suggestion. I have a question. The current version references RFC 5082: TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with the Generalized TTL Security Mechanism [RFC5082]. RFC 5881, while stating the requirement for the TTL or Hop Limit value, refers to RFC 5082 as the text that explains the benefits of using 255 on a single IP link. In both documents, RFC 5082 is listed as a normative reference. Would using RFC 5082 be acceptable or you suggest changing it to RFC 5881? Regards, Greg On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:37 AM Alvaro Retana wrote: > On June 16, 2020 at 5:01:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > Hi! > > > ... > > > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit = 1 > > > > > > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working > group > > > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is how > this > > > impacts existing implementations. > > > > This issue is resolved. > > As I had mentioned before [1], the use of 255 should reference > rfc5881: the requirement is one from the base spec, not a new one > here. > > Suggestion> > > TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with [RFC5881]. > > > I am clearing my DISCUSS. > > > Thanks!! > > Alvaro. > > [1] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/aiJW3KjYevY83wEDwVj488FSVl0/ > --000000000000d8b55805a84bff8e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alvaro,
thank you for the suggestion. I have a ques= tion. The current version references RFC 5082:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Generalized TTL Security Mechanism = [RFC5082].
RFC 5881, while stating the requirement for the TTL or= Hop Limit value, refers to RFC 5082 as the text that explains the benefits= of using 255 on a single IP link. In both documents, RFC 5082 is listed as= a normative reference. Would using RFC 5082 be acceptable or you suggest c= hanging it to RFC 5881?

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:37 AM Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
On June 16, 2020 at 5:01:57 PM, J= effrey Haas wrote:


Hi!


...
> > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1
> >
> > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the worki= ng group
> > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is h= ow this
> > impacts existing implementations.
>
> This issue is resolved.

As I had mentioned before [1], the use of 255 should reference
rfc5881: the requirement is one from the base spec, not a new one
here.

Suggestion>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with [RFC58= 81].


I am clearing my DISCUSS.


Thanks!!

Alvaro.

[1] https://mailarchive.ie= tf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/aiJW3KjYevY83wEDwVj488FSVl0/
--000000000000d8b55805a84bff8e-- From nobody Wed Jun 17 12:52:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA6F3A0D18; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zJtEFgfy_nEu; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7233A0D17; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B8641E2F8; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 16:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 15:52:14 -0400 Cc: The IESG , bfd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> To: Greg Mirsky , Donald Eastlake X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 19:52:19 -0000 Greg, > On Jun 16, 2020, at 9:05 PM, Greg Mirsky = wrote: > thank you for providing continued support and guidance. Please find my > notes in-lined under tag GIM>>. Attached are the new working version = and > its diff to -12. There are two remaining Open Issues - 7 and 9. I much > appreciate your considerations and suggestions. [...] >>> Open Issue 7: "::FFFF:7F00:0/104 IPv6 range" (COMMENT via Benjamin = K.) >>>=20 >>> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open >> Issue 3. >>> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is = not >>> relevant and may be deleted. >>=20 >> This action is still pending. >>=20 > GIM>> There are two references to this IPv6 range. I think that the > document should give a recommendation on what address to use as the > destination IP address. As we've discussed with Adam Roach, only = ::ffff: > 127.0.0.1/128 has host loopback meaning in IPv6. I propose to change > throughout the text from "one of the addresses from IPv6 range" to = "::ffff: > 127.0.0.1/128 for IPv6". Sorry, the issue is from the IESG ballot at = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ballot/: > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 range for IPv6). There could be a = firewall > configured on VTEP to block loopback addresses if set as the > destination IP in the inner IP header. It is RECOMMENDED to allow > addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if it is > used as the destination IP address in the inner IP header, and the > destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881]. >=20 > I think we should reword this to make it clear that the default = behavior > is still "block all incoming traffic with loopback destination" and = that > the exception is tightly scoped to the encapsulated VXLAN traffic > discussed in this document and the specific destination port *and when > BFD has been configured for the VTEP*. So, the question is what should be done about packet drop or firewalls? My opinion is one possible action for this is to drop the text. For = this feature to work, traffic will be arriving with packets destined to = these well known ranges. If you want the feature to work, they must be = permitted to come through. Rather than mention "if you have it", the = related actions are implied by things necessary to implement it. >=20 >>>=20 >>> Open Issue 9: "Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's = MAC >>> addresses." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) >>>=20 >>> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to = Open >> Issue 3. >>> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is = not >>> relevant and may be deleted. >>=20 >> In -12, we now have the following text: >> "Destination MAC: since a Management VNI is the VNI that does >> not have any tenants, the value of this field is not analyzed >> by the receiving VTEP." >>=20 >> For the management VNI, this text is true. However, it likely = requires a >> value that is described in the specification. >>=20 >> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known = and th=3D > e >> text would become: >>=20 >> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, = will >> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value >> X:X:X:X:X >> SHOULD be used in this field." >>=20 >> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for = permitting >> the >> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is = desired=3D > , >> MUST might be inappropriate. >>=20 > GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to not = use > the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus SHOULD = in the > text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC = address? I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the IESG = can offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the = designated expert for the IANA MAC address block. Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need is to = have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU that = is literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The = packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would = be dropped. If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a behavior, = perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, IANA may = not appreciate that. -- Jeff From nobody Wed Jun 17 12:59:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2533A0D81; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:59:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8SBUBnCdhOqb; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C2793A0D77; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id h5so3686833wrc.7; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:59:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=N77zIVoDfPuXlKtXiZKubuv8sE3bPX/TsAOyKLTKB5s=; b=AVz2gfVhbYB51DhX1DNri8qZ2VTReFYe516EZiHyS2qRyCf/kMigJbukn0MMI2I17S Vo0GILtcWolsWAeWn/HnbU1o3r/0yFj4dcU5UiUmvIFn9oCKd6VjWadH76+EF3bfpcXt a9HQc08i07U7D0dWFKCNyZeJwCf1GTfe+wwUTfKN2p8553dyEGN80R7whyhSEmGHMXaa fxzYAZeBVo3Aqmxo8NRSLGOYdlCnNSHtaFitq3VDw0ovf6UCBQvkFwLqgeyMY1pLsQWD GUzuIiip/F9wEh2WByM9zdtltP9cCQJM++RxcyrD6D3olnkGQq8IF9bjqzxasY+t+nnw rAOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=N77zIVoDfPuXlKtXiZKubuv8sE3bPX/TsAOyKLTKB5s=; b=EbpYYENmS48yGVbCH+PbTOJLp4wt+5vRr/2bbmG6biZKF5Si+a0qyzOkEcjF6i75U1 hk1PDwcTGN5aBvI+852LR0XjJG84m2sMdhkhLRvd4cc0eP6RF8vzez59AUblw2Dnc0Tg 9kNMh5uRNgn8tBDCDd/eIOv4I/ZCHpg/syU/XXZhCuPCoKBJaqQh1LuU2DQr6QQjrw6j 0a7Ty7Q0NAwwMUy0WpkmoNSHRg/wASY0Mi86nIK/QZpIdSS983VEIdNccjOYvXQ1DGOc c/r5324joE43abQxFCqAbib+TNh9rvHKjeJBhzoF7wn+dhlSFvzfjmRvwPIAzdYyhpMj +gxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530tn9mnsGG1rUiuRfIaq1cI/6DSr/n4olL4+2tQOdujQwECuwuB 23JUIvhLG8X6BONSp+7qrZD2uNTjX3TiIhs6Olc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxfYBzMt6p4HSoTCOwLggGE4OPlEcx7UzAw1JwR1xTTfpasjzNS7fKkp/IuwzFv4BLIucO1ZjEOCAO+C6rS2Pw= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4cc4:: with SMTP id c4mr855590wrt.159.1592423980574; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:59:39 -0700 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:59:39 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status To: Greg Mirsky Cc: bfd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, The IESG , Jeffrey Haas , rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b1aa2a05a84d19ef" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 19:59:44 -0000 --000000000000b1aa2a05a84d19ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg: Rfc5881 already specifies using GTSM=E2=80=A6this document depends on rfc58= 81, so the reference should be the BFD behavior. Alvaro. On June 17, 2020 at 2:40:52 PM, Greg Mirsky (gregimirsky@gmail.com) wrote: Hi Alvaro, thank you for the suggestion. I have a question. The current version references RFC 5082: TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with the Generalized TTL Security Mechanism [RFC5082]. RFC 5881, while stating the requirement for the TTL or Hop Limit value, refers to RFC 5082 as the text that explains the benefits of using 255 on a single IP link. In both documents, RFC 5082 is listed as a normative reference. Would using RFC 5082 be acceptable or you suggest changing it to RFC 5881? Regards, Greg On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:37 AM Alvaro Retana wrote: > On June 16, 2020 at 5:01:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > Hi! > > > ... > > > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1 > > > > > > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working > group > > > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is how > this > > > impacts existing implementations. > > > > This issue is resolved. > > As I had mentioned before [1], the use of 255 should reference > rfc5881: the requirement is one from the base spec, not a new one > here. > > Suggestion> > > TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with [RFC5881]. > > > I am clearing my DISCUSS. > > > Thanks!! > > Alvaro. > > [1] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/aiJW3KjYevY83wEDwVj488FSVl0= / > --000000000000b1aa2a05a84d19ef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Greg:

Rfc5881 already specifies using GTSM=E2=80=A6this document de= pends on rfc5881, so the reference should be the BFD behavior.

Alvaro.

On June 17, 2020 at 2:40:52 PM, Greg Mirsky (gregimirsky@gmail.com) wrote:

H= i Alvaro,
thank you for the suggestion. I have a question. The current = version references RFC 5082:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL or = Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Generalized TTL Security Mechanism [RFC5082].
RFC 5881, while stating the requirement for the TTL or Hop Limit value, re= fers to RFC 5082 as the text that explains the benefits of using 255 on a s= ingle IP link. In both documents, RFC 5082 is listed as a normative referen= ce. Would using RFC 5082 be acceptable or you suggest changing it to RFC 58= 81?

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Jun 17, 2= 020 at 9:37 AM Alvaro Retana <= aretana.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
On June 16, 2020 at 5:01:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote:

Hi!


...
> > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1
> >
> > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the worki= ng group
> > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is h= ow this
> > impacts existing implementations.
>
> This issue is resolved.

As I had mentioned before [1], the use of 255 should reference
rfc5881: the requirement is one from the base spec, not a new one
here.

Suggestion>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with [RFC58= 81].


I am clearing my DISCUSS.


Thanks!!

Alvaro.

[1] https://mailarchive.ie= tf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/aiJW3KjYevY83wEDwVj488FSVl0/
--000000000000b1aa2a05a84d19ef-- From nobody Wed Jun 17 13:36:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9921A3A0C98; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wiECY2ZzXsVF; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 997523A0C97; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 9so4546787ljc.8; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:36:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rIxOt3uqbhGtBAXHeGn8Nditan4SG0ibn+J/KgLzWdM=; b=ZntIXDAabs05JZ5cmk5gS9jsttHS/0zZbPeSwsu/GHsAU70jgZu1ZpvFKAW/8toOl2 4ii0qA+rIFYwAv0Z9TLp5Rbh4J29CCGQvD3silo4/Rm+C7uwNlyOFISBNN7td9dKGOdO OZnj/MQq1XCcP9sM8dgUx5OH/Z8heBiXGwB3nSiOqLrnF+x5WO4Cb9RKoLBZApmlBx7l A82so4UT8S15mHAYgvI9qJCSndCBwOpWcdDb9YtZ3TRTfuz6zK+cLR4nP7d8iGtU5zl8 XP1IwYNVoFTkscuKlaMfAy/8FvzKz4qdo8YyleBgsc4DAgGut7SzEZCF3qrcPFR8VQ// LMdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rIxOt3uqbhGtBAXHeGn8Nditan4SG0ibn+J/KgLzWdM=; b=fUn7DTI1H+wFD2gozerA9eNOta8XFXz7H4Rzku5fjHmdEBxxI4/SjJ0xQAiDDmg6qi /rdB2DuiaxeIRS+BocHIe9S6rEyFbc2u/WARIbui6iqYpk0We2yT/DEtH2IGICHuk1XR FKec4HbjQOjf02MV1wvDv4HHHdtsJCfs2ggfd+h+ablyaZIsX49eqSe9ulNfcxTTx3p0 UBphco4D4iXZKemCEToVcuPt39Z3KnIXyNj/+1wAOD86pqLsWVNJ1tJmNZ9dihAZhgQM TpTifm6HE5UOHuDtUbK0FonyvHsDIS1zIMfjuQKBQn8J3ZIbQLRnKJDA6vVbBZj8Bvs7 glKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531F9g3vaA7NO5gERFIx1Dg8PgS5ckohOt8yzOdT0sjSbjcsTlMe RmAxvz+vOJx3ehOSaiBM0Q03AfH66wsIwtmDfkpRTg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzXRLfIU0MWYGI6wNKbsg7J50jnqePbNoYVO5TRDtFqEriUbsKd8hCVaQUE+FWSuHrs9kQwdVN9AJRRGOa6usU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:54e:: with SMTP id q14mr449820ljp.279.1592426184709; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:36:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:36:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status To: Alvaro Retana Cc: bfd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, The IESG , Jeffrey Haas , rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001219fa05a84d9d19" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 20:36:30 -0000 --0000000000001219fa05a84d9d19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alvaro, thank you for the clarification. I will update the reference by using the text you've suggested. Regards, Greg On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 12:59 PM Alvaro Retana wrote: > Greg: > > Rfc5881 already specifies using GTSM=E2=80=A6this document depends on rfc= 5881, so > the reference should be the BFD behavior. > > Alvaro. > > On June 17, 2020 at 2:40:52 PM, Greg Mirsky (gregimirsky@gmail.com) wrote= : > > Hi Alvaro, > thank you for the suggestion. I have a question. The current version > references RFC 5082: > TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with the > Generalized TTL Security Mechanism [RFC5082]. > RFC 5881, while stating the requirement for the TTL or Hop Limit value, > refers to RFC 5082 as the text that explains the benefits of using 255 on= a > single IP link. In both documents, RFC 5082 is listed as a normative > reference. Would using RFC 5082 be acceptable or you suggest changing it = to > RFC 5881? > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:37 AM Alvaro Retana > wrote: > >> On June 16, 2020 at 5:01:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> >> >> Hi! >> >> >> ... >> > > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1 >> > > >> > > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the working >> group >> > > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is how >> this >> > > impacts existing implementations. >> > >> > This issue is resolved. >> >> As I had mentioned before [1], the use of 255 should reference >> rfc5881: the requirement is one from the base spec, not a new one >> here. >> >> Suggestion> >> >> TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with [RFC5881]. >> >> >> I am clearing my DISCUSS. >> >> >> Thanks!! >> >> Alvaro. >> >> [1] >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/aiJW3KjYevY83wEDwVj488FSVl= 0/ >> > --0000000000001219fa05a84d9d19 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alvaro,
thank you for the clarification. I will upd= ate the reference by using the text you've suggested.

Regards,
Greg

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 12:59 PM Alvar= o Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.c= om> wrote:
Greg:

Rfc5881 already specifies using GTSM=E2=80=A6this document de= pends on rfc5881, so the reference should be the BFD behavior.

Alvaro.

On June 17= , 2020 at 2:40:52 PM, Greg Mirsky (gregimirsky@gmail.com) wrote:

Hi Alvaro,
thank = you for the suggestion. I have a question. The current version references R= FC 5082:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be s= et to 255 in accordance with the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Generalized TTL Security Mechanism [RFC5082].
RFC 5881, while sta= ting the requirement for the TTL or Hop Limit value, refers to RFC 5082 as = the text that explains the benefits of using 255 on a single IP link. In bo= th documents, RFC 5082 is listed as a normative reference. Would using RFC = 5082 be acceptable or you suggest changing it to RFC 5881?

Regards,
Greg

=
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:37 AM Alvar= o Retana <ar= etana.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
On June 16, 2020 at 5:01:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote:


Hi!


...
> > Open Issue 1: Discussion on TTL/Hop Limit =3D 1
> >
> > Proposed Action: Greg has proposed text he will send to the worki= ng group
> > suggesting GTSM procedures be utilized. The expected concern is h= ow this
> > impacts existing implementations.
>
> This issue is resolved.

As I had mentioned before [1], the use of 255 should reference
rfc5881: the requirement is one from the base spec, not a new one
here.

Suggestion>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL or Hop Limit: MUST be set to 255 in accordance with [RFC58= 81].


I am clearing my DISCUSS.


Thanks!!

Alvaro.

[1] https://mailarchive.ie= tf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/aiJW3KjYevY83wEDwVj488FSVl0/
--0000000000001219fa05a84d9d19-- From nobody Wed Jun 17 14:12:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367E13A0B4A; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:12:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.855 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.855 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X_Y4Qi6m2x3P; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD2283A0B68; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id w15so2171059lfe.11; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NQ+OI6gEPz0/YTr03tLWsu/t3ARVTBloxcvIIpDiCnc=; b=ZRbxCDnXsr0xJbro+XTIjeLufOoypfKK8dl9AF/TLXxaCrMN1+42RgWDPtO1e583rC A3iQAfQASxU9n6wWBI8B1MuTATIZ3HSjNwKMrjtaFwix37QpEytacCCJNEraRUU+0PJd 5G5sZdQQAQ/FIK0ankWgRMKMZuJY64M5AWUGrlLPDCJi4EGHOqvbcjyYP2ElTIcTaS3A SBza5eoRwfnNIRsHlKEj1LPRLU70BfzU0XNsmazqnD36vYI1DQrMR3shlIwfUTzN43mc VF+i7EmnZSVdlo/YpsyAH94HguTohNJ7qg1DvvHcEfWCVWQWM+Rv4EO8xLf2vWTQ7Tyv YNqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NQ+OI6gEPz0/YTr03tLWsu/t3ARVTBloxcvIIpDiCnc=; b=Jkwtr+MOGBvYqxvXgk4HIpEx1pyrusezKShn1PJI3s5unFWxL2/gSyQ1wrz0CrqDfR 2mJmH+Ea3kVtO+vfuIlqY9P01ufncPl+11bL7Vt58HcWx+gXLO7yZdu/fWVRu2HwneIG qWzzBkyhwdtgOAsdjHUleX/9PoZ4pY0Hhg627glm6ZXfVMZbXtzp617mEv4AKJTQU1pP foBvi8soyxMrhrq7I2aTdFCSSwgN7POUymo0ViSy48+C4lOLxBIKDgsybbLMyVpMf1ar VrSqsjUNAPg6J+fuUEA9GnYguYQNBweKTxOvfe4zjRPDKK5dcjME7NfsCNvG86I2gv4c uOWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533tx/MM49u6t72IdbfvtszqytYr3T9mrKHG19dpFM0LkmfBa1hD 3+4EqVO+Dzedx1Df8fDWCRiWCOiKdNgXLYZ1xU0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxd3gBayluRjbiuUeAVkvYV+3MeJNZiT6dt9MTDJDAjUGpjxhIvwUXaGGWSaWGtxAJZSbO3sPo39QUTE8LySEY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:6c4:: with SMTP id u4mr447975lff.98.1592428333985; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:12:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200127221705.GB17622@pfrc.org> <20200616211057.GA21373@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:12:02 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan IESG status To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: Donald Eastlake , The IESG , bfd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002d72b805a84e1dae" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 21:12:18 -0000 --0000000000002d72b805a84e1dae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Jeff, thank you for the additional details. I've top-posted the discussion thread regarding a firewall, VTEP, and drop rules. I recall that the relevant text was suggested based on deployment experience. I will try to update it along the suggested lines: I think the rewording would include some phrasing like "RECOMMENDED that the only firewall exception to allow incoming traffic with destination address from the loopback range is when [...]", and of course, mention the need to have BFD configured. Would the following update make it clearer: OLD TEXT: There could be a firewall configured on VTEP to block loopback addresses if set as the destination IP in the inner IP header. It is RECOMMENDED to allow addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if they are used as the destination IP addresses in the inner IP header and the destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881]. NEW TEXT: If a firewall configured on VTEP packets with their destination IP addresses in the inner IP header set to one of the loopback addresses listed above will be dropped. To allow BFD work as described in this specification, it is RECOMMENDED to use an exception rule to allow addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if they are used as the destination IP addresses in the inner IP header and the destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881]. Also, would splitting this text into a paragraph help to keep clear? If the proposed update is not better than the current text, let's remove it altogether. Regards, Greg On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 12:52 PM Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Greg, > > > > On Jun 16, 2020, at 9:05 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > thank you for providing continued support and guidance. Please find my > > notes in-lined under tag GIM>>. Attached are the new working version and > > its diff to -12. There are two remaining Open Issues - 7 and 9. I much > > appreciate your considerations and suggestions. > > [...] > > >>> Open Issue 7: "::FFFF:7F00:0/104 IPv6 range" (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > >>> > >>> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > >> Issue 3. > >>> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > >>> relevant and may be deleted. > >> > >> This action is still pending. > >> > > GIM>> There are two references to this IPv6 range. I think that the > > document should give a recommendation on what address to use as the > > destination IP address. As we've discussed with Adam Roach, only ::ffff: > > 127.0.0.1/128 has host loopback meaning in IPv6. I propose to change > > throughout the text from "one of the addresses from IPv6 range" to > "::ffff: > > 127.0.0.1/128 for IPv6". > > Sorry, the issue is from the IESG ballot at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ballot/: > > > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 range for IPv6). There could be a firewall > > configured on VTEP to block loopback addresses if set as the > > destination IP in the inner IP header. It is RECOMMENDED to allow > > addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only if it is > > used as the destination IP address in the inner IP header, and the > > destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881]. > > > > I think we should reword this to make it clear that the default behavior > > is still "block all incoming traffic with loopback destination" and that > > the exception is tightly scoped to the encapsulated VXLAN traffic > > discussed in this document and the specific destination port *and when > > BFD has been configured for the VTEP*. > > So, the question is what should be done about packet drop or firewalls? > > My opinion is one possible action for this is to drop the text. For this > feature to work, traffic will be arriving with packets destined to these > well known ranges. If you want the feature to work, they must be permitted > to come through. Rather than mention "if you have it", the related actions > are implied by things necessary to implement it. > > > > > > >>> > >>> Open Issue 9: "Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one of tenant's MAC > >>> addresses." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.) > >>> > >>> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly tied to Open > >> Issue 3. > >>> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text is not > >>> relevant and may be deleted. > >> > >> In -12, we now have the following text: > >> "Destination MAC: since a Management VNI is the VNI that does > >> not have any tenants, the value of this field is not analyzed > >> by the receiving VTEP." > >> > >> For the management VNI, this text is true. However, it likely requires > a > >> value that is described in the specification. > >> > >> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known and > th= > > e > >> text would become: > >> > >> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any tenants, > will > >> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic. The value > >> X:X:X:X:X > >> SHOULD be used in this field." > >> > >> SHOULD might need to be MUST. Since a partial motivation for permitting > >> the > >> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is > desired= > > , > >> MUST might be inappropriate. > >> > > GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility to not > use > > the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus SHOULD in > the > > text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC address? > > I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the IESG can > offer a fix. :-) I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the designated > expert for the IANA MAC address block. > > Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need is to > have a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU that is > literally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding". The packet > arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would be dropped. > > If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a behavior, > perhaps an address from the IANA block may be used? > > While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, IANA may > not appreciate that. > > -- Jeff > > > --0000000000002d72b805a84e1dae Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jeff,
thank you for the additional details. I'v= e top-posted the discussion thread regarding a firewall, VTEP, and drop rul= es. I recall that the relevant text was suggested based on deployment exper= ience. I will try to update=C2=A0it along the suggested lines:
I think the r= ewording would include some phrasing like "RECOMMENDED that
= the only firewall exception to allow incoming traffic with destination
address from the loopback range is when [...]", and of course, m= ention
the need to have BFD configured.
Would t= he following update make it clearer:
OLD TEXT:
=C2=A0 There c= ould be a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0firewall configured on VTEP to block loopback add= resses if set as the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination IP in the inner IP header.= =C2=A0 It is RECOMMENDED to allow
=C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses from the loopba= ck range through a firewall only if they are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used as the de= stination IP addresses in the inner IP header and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0desti= nation UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881].
NEW TEXT:
=C2=A0 If a firewall
=C2=A0 =C2=A0configured on VTEP packets with their= destination IP addresses in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0inner IP header set to one= of the loopback addresses listed above will be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0dropped.=C2= =A0 To allow BFD work as described in this specification, it is
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0RECOMMENDED to use an exception rule to allow addresses from the
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0loopback range through a firewall only if they are used as the=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination IP addresses in the inner IP header and the de= stination
=C2=A0 =C2=A0UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881].
= Also, would splitting this text into a paragraph help to keep clear?
<= div>
If the proposed update is not better than the current te= xt, let's remove it altogether.

Regards,
=
Greg

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 12:52 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
Greg,


> On Jun 16, 2020, at 9:05 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
> thank you for providing continued support and guidance. Please find my=
> notes in-lined under tag GIM>>. Attached are the new working ver= sion and
> its diff to -12. There are two remaining Open Issues - 7 and 9. I much=
> appreciate your considerations and suggestions.

[...]

>>> Open Issue 7: "::FFFF:7F00:0/104 IPv6 range" (COMMEN= T via Benjamin K.)
>>>
>>> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly = tied to Open
>> Issue 3.
>>> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text= is not
>>> relevant and may be deleted.
>>
>> This action is still pending.
>>
> GIM>> There are two references to this IPv6 range. I think that = the
> document should give a recommendation on what address to use as the > destination IP address. As we've discussed with=C2=A0 Adam Roach, = only ::ffff:
> = 127.0.0.1/128 has host loopback meaning in IPv6. I propose to change > throughout the text from "one of the addresses from IPv6 range&qu= ot; to "::ffff:
> = 127.0.0.1/128 for IPv6".

Sorry, the issue is from the IESG ballot at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan/ballot/:

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 range for IPv6).=C2=A0 There co= uld be a firewall
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 configured on VTEP to block loopback addresses if set as = the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 destination IP in the inner IP header.=C2=A0 It is RECOMM= ENDED to allow
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 addresses from the loopback range through a firewall only= if it is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 used as the destination IP address in the inner IP header= , and the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 destination UDP port is set to 3784 [RFC5881].
>
> I think we should reword this to make it clear that the default behavi= or
> is still "block all incoming traffic with loopback destination&qu= ot; and that
> the exception is tightly scoped to the encapsulated VXLAN traffic
> discussed in this document and the specific destination port *and when=
> BFD has been configured for the VTEP*.

So, the question is what should be done about packet drop or firewalls?

My opinion is one possible action for this is to drop the text.=C2=A0 For t= his feature to work, traffic will be arriving with packets destined to thes= e well known ranges.=C2=A0 If you want the feature to work, they must be pe= rmitted to come through.=C2=A0 Rather than mention "if you have it&quo= t;, the related actions are implied by things necessary to implement it.


>
>>>
>>> Open Issue 9: "Destination MAC: This MUST NOT be of one o= f tenant's MAC
>>> addresses." (COMMENT via Benjamin K.)
>>>
>>> Proposed Action: I believe this issue's fate is similarly = tied to Open
>> Issue 3.
>>> If the proposal is limited solely to management VNI, this text= is not
>>> relevant and may be deleted.
>>
>> In -12, we now have the following text:
>> "Destination MAC: since a Management VNI is the VNI that does=
>> not have any tenants, the value of this field is not analyzed
>> by the receiving VTEP."
>>
>> For the management VNI, this text is true.=C2=A0 However, it likel= y requires a
>> value that is described in the specification.
>>
>> Proposed solution: A MAC value should be chosen that is well known= and th=3D
> e
>> text would become:
>>
>> "Destination MAC: A Management VNI, which does not have any t= enants, will
>> have no dedicated MAC address for decapsulated traffic.=C2=A0 The = value
>> X:X:X:X:X
>> SHOULD be used in this field."
>>
>> SHOULD might need to be MUST.=C2=A0 Since a partial motivation for= permitting
>> the
>> flexibility in the specification to NOT use the management VNI is = desired=3D
> ,
>> MUST might be inappropriate.
>>
> GIM>> Accepted the suggested text. I agree that the flexibility = to not use
> the Management VNI is permitted in the specification and thus SHOULD i= n the
> text is consistent with that scenario. How would we pick the MAC addre= ss?

I am out of my area of expertise and I was hoping someone in the IESG can o= ffer a fix. :-)=C2=A0 I am copying Donald Eastlake since he's the desig= nated expert for the IANA MAC address block.

Donald, review of the thread may be useful, but tersely the need is to have= a well known MAC address that can be placed in this vxlan PDU that is lite= rally a placeholder of "not to be used for forwarding".=C2=A0 The= packet arrives at the endpoint and, if not immediately accepted, would be = dropped.

If there is no well known MAC that could be used for such a behavior, perha= ps an address from the IANA block may be used?

While I suspect the IANA mac documentation range could be used, IANA may no= t appreciate that.

-- Jeff


--0000000000002d72b805a84e1dae-- From nobody Mon Jun 22 15:26:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501F3A1148; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 15:25:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-07.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.3.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rtg-bfd@ietf.org Message-ID: <159286475975.15849.387062371689794389@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 15:25:59 -0700 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: rtg-bfd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection DT" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 22:26:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection WG of the IETF. Title : BFD in Demand Mode over Point-to-Point MPLS LSP Author : Greg Mirsky Filename : draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-07.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2020-06-22 Abstract: This document describes procedures for using Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) in Demand mode to detect data plane failures in Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) point-to-point Label Switched Paths. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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