From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 2 03:50:25 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29497 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:50:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9GEY-0000he-0q for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:24:46 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i324OjkO002699 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:24:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9DHr-0002fE-Se for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:15:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17212 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:15:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9DHp-0000U9-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:15:57 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B9DGo-0000IH-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:14:56 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9DG5-00009T-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:14:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9ABa-0007c8-3c; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:57:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B95ub-0001pJ-Ra for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:23:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22728 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:23:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B95uQ-0003QQ-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:23:18 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B95tW-0003JX-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:22:23 -0500 Received: from smtp2.procket.com ([65.174.124.37]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B95sU-00035p-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:21:18 -0500 Received: from miata.procket.com (mil0-fw00-d-1.procket.com [65.174.124.60]) by smtp2.procket.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i31JRrAw085194; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from exchangefe2.na.procket.com (email.na.procket.com [10.1.7.252]) by miata.procket.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i31HKVd1029655; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:20:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([10.1.1.1]) by exchangefe2.na.procket.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:20:31 -0800 In-Reply-To: <200403260455.UAA13846@redback.com> References: <200403260455.UAA13846@redback.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Alex Zinin" , From: Christian Hopps Subject: Re: Review Call: draft-hsmit-mpls-igp-spf-01.txt Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:19:21 -0800 To: Naiming Shen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2004 17:20:31.0695 (UTC) FILETIME=[A2B9E5F0:01C4180D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mar 25, 2004, at 8:55 PM, Naiming Shen wrote: > ] On Mar 25, 2004, at 8:10 PM, Naiming Shen wrote: > ] > ] On Mar 25, 2004, at 6:46 PM, Naiming Shen wrote: > ] > ] > ] Note the example that follows in the text. Regardless of > ] > whether > ] > ] > the TE > ] > ] > ] tunnel metric is more or less it MUST not affect the path > ] > choice, > ] > ] > the > ] > ] > ] example and the text above seem to imply that it can. > ] > ] > > ] > ] > I think my example in the draft was not good. By (dst), > which I > ] > meant > ] > ] > some prefix/subnet. There are posibility that multiple nodes > ] > inject > ] > ] > the same subnet. Even though the shortcut does not change > the SPF, > ] > ] > it does change the metric assigned into routes, and the > lower ones > ] > ] > will win, which can cause a loop. something like the > following > ] > diagram: > ] > ] > > ] > ] > (src) 2 2 > ] > ] > A ------ B ------- C > ] > ] > | =========>| > ] > ] > 20| 30 |2 > ] > ] > | | > ] > ] > D E (dst X) > ] > ] > (dst X) > ] > ] > > ] > ] > does this diagram change make sense? > ] > ] > ] > ] There is no possibility of a loop here. B will choose C for E > ] > because > ] > ] of the SPF, the TE metric plays no part in the SPF at all. > That is, > ] > B > ] > ] will choose C, E will go into TENT, B will then choose E > through C > ] > by > ] > ] putting E in PATHS next. The draft can say that B uses the IGP > ] > because > ] > ] its metric to dst x is 4 and the TE metric is 32, but talking > about > ] > it > ] > ] in the context of the SPF is misleading. > ] > ] > ] > ] More to the point, a vendor could actually have an option > "always > ] > ] prefer TE tunnels to IGP" and B could then use the metric 30 > tunnel, > ] > ] there would *still* be no loop. > ] > ] > ] > ] The draft should clearly state that the TE metric only > arbitrates > ] > for > ] > ] nexthop selection once the best routes have been discovered. > In the > ] > ] above example why would A even be looking at D as a route for > dst x? > ] > ^^^ > ] > > ] > I think you meant B above. > ] > Here is why regardless of lsp tunnels: > ] > > ] > 10 20 > ] > a ------------> b -- Y > ] > | > ] > +-------------> c -- Y > ] > 15 5 > ] > > ] > assume node 'a' is the source of the SPF, it has metric 10 to > reach > ] > node 'b' and metric 15 to reach node 'c'. node 'b' announce > routes Y > ] > with metric of 20, and node 'c' announces route Y with metric of > 5. > ] > are you saying from node 'a' to destination of Y, it should take > ] > node 'b' instead of node 'c' ? > ] > ] Absolutely not. The cost to Y through b by SPF is 30. The cost to Y > ] through c is 20. Clearly c is the only nexthop A should (MUST) use > to > ] Y. I'm saying TE metric has nothing to do with choosing the set of > best > ] cost paths to Y. When that set is chosen, and only when, you can do > ] whatever you want in selecting which ones you want to use, including > ] the use of the TE metric; however, TE MUST not play any part in > ] selecting the initial set of best cost paths. > ] > > we are not talking about changing the paths to the spf nodes. we are > only discussing how to determine the paths to reach the prefixes with > TE tunnel being used. unless as you suggested, an implementation > have an 'always use TE tunnel' for the routes, there is certainly > the possibility of routing loop if higher than 'normal' metric being > used for the routes. again, this is also implementation issues, one > can store the TE tunnel metric along with the hop-by-hop metric; later > when one comes to another nodes announcing the same route, only > compare with the hop-by-hop metric. We should not be talking about implementation issues here. I'm not sure where the confusion is on this point anymore. The algorithm is very simple. For each prefix there is a set of ECMP paths to reach said prefix. This set of paths is determined by IGP metric only. From this set of paths the TE metric may be used used to select a subset of paths to install in the RIB. Again the point is that under no circumstances may the TE metric be used to select the initial set of ECMP paths. It doesn't matter if the TE metric is lower equal or greater. I feel that the draft currently gives examples that seem to imply that one may be using the TE metric to choose this set of initial ECMP paths. Thanks, Chris. > since the route preference duing calculation is part of the spf > implementation, I would think we need to mention this possibility > of looping issues. > > thanks. > > ] Chris. > ] > ] > > ] > thanks. > ] > > ] > ] > ] > ] Thanks, > ] > ] Chris. > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > thanks. > ] > ] > > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] Which again, is why the following is stated earlier in the > ] > document. > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] This is stated earlier in this section: > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] "Setting a manual metric on a TE-tunnel does not > impact > ] > the > ] > ] > SPF=20 > ] > ] > ] > ] algorithm itself." > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] The only thing the TE tunnel metric can affect is > whether > ] > TE > ] > ] > ] > tunnel=20 > ] > ] > ] > ] nexthop is chosen over the IGP nexthop when a route > is > ] > being > ] > ] > ] > installed,=20= > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] and when *IGP metric* based ECMP routes are being > ] > considered. > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] Chris. > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > - Naiming > ] > ] > ] > > ] > ] > ] > _______________________________________________ > ] > ] > ] > Rtgwg mailing list > ] > ] > ] > Rtgwg@ietf.org > ] > ] > ] > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] _______________________________________________ > ] > ] > ] Rtgwg mailing list > ] > ] > ] Rtgwg@ietf.org > ] > ] > ] https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > ] > ] > > ] > ] > - Naiming > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] _______________________________________________ > ] > ] Rtgwg mailing list > ] > ] Rtgwg@ietf.org > ] > ] https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > ] > > ] > - Naiming > ] > ] > ] _______________________________________________ > ] Rtgwg mailing list > ] Rtgwg@ietf.org > ] https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > > - Naiming _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 2 04:10:01 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA29995 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:10:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9GH2-00010q-SO for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:27:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i324RKtU003887 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:27:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9DQP-0007x6-Gx for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:24:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18284 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9DQN-00028d-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:24:47 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B9DPU-0001z6-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:23:53 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9DOk-0001pa-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:23:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9ABo-0007dL-OI; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:57:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B95zS-000247-98 for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:28:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22882 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B95zG-00041C-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:28:18 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B95yJ-0003uD-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:27:20 -0500 Received: from prattle.redback.com ([155.53.12.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B95xv-0003ot-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:26:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by prattle.redback.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBCA9776EC; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:26:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from prattle.redback.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (prattle [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23256-07; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:26:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from redback.com (malt.redback.com [155.53.12.41]) by prattle.redback.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DC59776E1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:26:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from malt (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by redback.com (8.9.3-LCCHA/8.9.3/null redback solaris client) with ESMTP id JAA00764; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:26:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200404011726.JAA00764@redback.com> To: Christian Hopps Cc: Naiming Shen , "Alex Zinin" , rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: Review Call: draft-hsmit-mpls-igp-spf-01.txt In-reply-to: Mail from Christian Hopps dated Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:19:21 PST Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:26:44 -0800 From: Naiming Shen X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at redback.com Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 I'll update the example. thanks. ] On Mar 25, 2004, at 8:55 PM, Naiming Shen wrote: ] > ] On Mar 25, 2004, at 8:10 PM, Naiming Shen wrote: ] > ] > ] On Mar 25, 2004, at 6:46 PM, Naiming Shen wrote: ] > ] > ] > ] Note the example that follows in the text. Regardless of ] > ] > whether ] > ] > ] > the TE ] > ] > ] > ] tunnel metric is more or less it MUST not affect the path ] > ] > choice, ] > ] > ] > the ] > ] > ] > ] example and the text above seem to imply that it can. ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > I think my example in the draft was not good. By (dst), ] > which I ] > ] > meant ] > ] > ] > some prefix/subnet. There are posibility that multiple nodes ] > ] > inject ] > ] > ] > the same subnet. Even though the shortcut does not change ] > the SPF, ] > ] > ] > it does change the metric assigned into routes, and the ] > lower ones ] > ] > ] > will win, which can cause a loop. something like the ] > following ] > ] > diagram: ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > (src) 2 2 ] > ] > ] > A ------ B ------- C ] > ] > ] > | =========>| ] > ] > ] > 20| 30 |2 ] > ] > ] > | | ] > ] > ] > D E (dst X) ] > ] > ] > (dst X) ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > does this diagram change make sense? ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] There is no possibility of a loop here. B will choose C for E ] > ] > because ] > ] > ] of the SPF, the TE metric plays no part in the SPF at all. ] > That is, ] > ] > B ] > ] > ] will choose C, E will go into TENT, B will then choose E ] > through C ] > ] > by ] > ] > ] putting E in PATHS next. The draft can say that B uses the IGP ] > ] > because ] > ] > ] its metric to dst x is 4 and the TE metric is 32, but talking ] > about ] > ] > it ] > ] > ] in the context of the SPF is misleading. ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] More to the point, a vendor could actually have an option ] > "always ] > ] > ] prefer TE tunnels to IGP" and B could then use the metric 30 ] > tunnel, ] > ] > ] there would *still* be no loop. ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] The draft should clearly state that the TE metric only ] > arbitrates ] > ] > for ] > ] > ] nexthop selection once the best routes have been discovered. ] > In the ] > ] > ] above example why would A even be looking at D as a route for ] > dst x? ] > ] > ^^^ ] > ] > ] > ] > I think you meant B above. ] > ] > Here is why regardless of lsp tunnels: ] > ] > ] > ] > 10 20 ] > ] > a ------------> b -- Y ] > ] > | ] > ] > +-------------> c -- Y ] > ] > 15 5 ] > ] > ] > ] > assume node 'a' is the source of the SPF, it has metric 10 to ] > reach ] > ] > node 'b' and metric 15 to reach node 'c'. node 'b' announce ] > routes Y ] > ] > with metric of 20, and node 'c' announces route Y with metric of ] > 5. ] > ] > are you saying from node 'a' to destination of Y, it should take ] > ] > node 'b' instead of node 'c' ? ] > ] ] > ] Absolutely not. The cost to Y through b by SPF is 30. The cost to Y ] > ] through c is 20. Clearly c is the only nexthop A should (MUST) use ] > to ] > ] Y. I'm saying TE metric has nothing to do with choosing the set of ] > best ] > ] cost paths to Y. When that set is chosen, and only when, you can do ] > ] whatever you want in selecting which ones you want to use, including ] > ] the use of the TE metric; however, TE MUST not play any part in ] > ] selecting the initial set of best cost paths. ] > ] ] > ] > we are not talking about changing the paths to the spf nodes. we are ] > only discussing how to determine the paths to reach the prefixes with ] > TE tunnel being used. unless as you suggested, an implementation ] > have an 'always use TE tunnel' for the routes, there is certainly ] > the possibility of routing loop if higher than 'normal' metric being ] > used for the routes. again, this is also implementation issues, one ] > can store the TE tunnel metric along with the hop-by-hop metric; later ] > when one comes to another nodes announcing the same route, only ] > compare with the hop-by-hop metric. ] ] We should not be talking about implementation issues here. I'm not sure ] where the confusion is on this point anymore. ] ] The algorithm is very simple. For each prefix there is a set of ECMP ] paths to reach said prefix. This set of paths is determined by IGP ] metric only. From this set of paths the TE metric may be used used to ] select a subset of paths to install in the RIB. ] ] Again the point is that under no circumstances may the TE metric be ] used to select the initial set of ECMP paths. It doesn't matter if the ] TE metric is lower equal or greater. I feel that the draft currently ] gives examples that seem to imply that one may be using the TE metric ] to choose this set of initial ECMP paths. ] ] Thanks, ] Chris. ] ] ] ] > since the route preference duing calculation is part of the spf ] > implementation, I would think we need to mention this possibility ] > of looping issues. ] ] > ] > thanks. ] > ] > ] Chris. ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] > thanks. ] > ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] Thanks, ] > ] > ] Chris. ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > thanks. ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] Which again, is why the following is stated earlier in the ] > ] > document. ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] > ] This is stated earlier in this section: ] > ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] > ] "Setting a manual metric on a TE-tunnel does not ] > impact ] > ] > the ] > ] > ] > SPF=20 ] > ] > ] > ] > ] algorithm itself." ] > ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] > ] The only thing the TE tunnel metric can affect is ] > whether ] > ] > TE ] > ] > ] > ] > tunnel=20 ] > ] > ] > ] > ] nexthop is chosen over the IGP nexthop when a route ] > is ] > ] > being ] > ] > ] > ] > installed,=20= ] > ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] > ] and when *IGP metric* based ECMP routes are being ] > ] > considered. ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] Chris. ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] > - Naiming ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > _______________________________________________ ] > ] > ] > ] > Rtgwg mailing list ] > ] > ] > ] > Rtgwg@ietf.org ] > ] > ] > ] > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] > ] _______________________________________________ ] > ] > ] > ] Rtgwg mailing list ] > ] > ] > ] Rtgwg@ietf.org ] > ] > ] > ] https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > ] > - Naiming ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] ] > ] > ] _______________________________________________ ] > ] > ] Rtgwg mailing list ] > ] > ] Rtgwg@ietf.org ] > ] > ] https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg ] > ] > ] > ] > - Naiming ] > ] ] > ] ] > ] _______________________________________________ ] > ] Rtgwg mailing list ] > ] Rtgwg@ietf.org ] > ] https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg ] > ] > - Naiming ] - Naiming _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 18:03:38 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA00213 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEElE-0006BR-Hg for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:51:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FLp4oj023769 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:51:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEEXe-0001IG-RC for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:37:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29386 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEEXc-0005vc-BT for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:37:00 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEEWh-0005rJ-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:36:04 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEEWK-0005n4-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:35:40 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEDkn-0000tZ-J0; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:46:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEDge-0008UH-OM for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:42:16 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25706; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404152042.QAA25706@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:42:13 -0400 Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Calculating IGP Routes Over Traffic Engineering Tunnels Author(s) : N. Shen, H. Smit Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2004-4-15 This document describes how conventional hop-by-hop link-state routing protocols interact with new Traffic Engineering capabilities to create IGP shortcuts. In particular this document describes how Dijkstra's SPF algorithm should be adapted so that link-state IGPs will calculate IP routes to forward traffic over tunnels that are set up by Traffic Engineering. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-15153957.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-15153957.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 16 03:31:55 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19552 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BENk6-00010a-Ek for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:26:30 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3G7QUch003872 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:26:30 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BENh7-0000Ek-VE for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:23:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18837 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BENh5-0003Sw-Cn for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:23:23 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BENfl-0003Ic-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:22:02 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BENer-0003Ae-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:21:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BENbt-00073R-G8; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:18:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BENUV-0005r2-QA for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:10:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA17403 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BENUR-0001bL-Os for rtgwg@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:10:19 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BENTT-0001TE-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:09:20 -0400 Received: from gw2.cox.com ([24.248.72.254] helo=hatl0ms21.CORP.COX.COM) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BENSe-0001KF-00; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:08:28 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hatl0ms21.CORP.COX.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:08:00 -0400 Received: from cox.com ([10.230.2.122]) by hatl0ms23.corp.cox.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:02:28 -0400 Received: from ([132.151.6.22]) by post1.cox.com with SMTP ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:50:30 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEDkm-0000tL-FP; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:46:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEDge-0008UH-Cy for i-d-announce@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:42:16 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25706; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404152042.QAA25706@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:42:13 -0400 X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 23:02:28.0538 (UTC) FILETIME=[B98031A0:01C4233D] Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Calculating IGP Routes Over Traffic Engineering Tunnels Author(s) : N. Shen, H. Smit Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2004-4-15 This document describes how conventional hop-by-hop link-state routing protocols interact with new Traffic Engineering capabilities to create IGP shortcuts. In particular this document describes how Dijkstra's SPF algorithm should be adapted so that link-state IGPs will calculate IP routes to forward traffic over tunnels that are set up by Traffic Engineering. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-15153957.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-15153957.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 19 19:42:35 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21538 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFiJN-0000fG-AV for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:36:25 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3JNaPi5002554 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:36:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFiAe-0007P9-MB for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20876 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFiAd-0005fm-0w for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:23 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFi9d-0005PX-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:26:22 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFi8e-00059q-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:25:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFi2c-0005Zr-D2; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:19:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFhuK-0002Mt-UQ for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:10:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19807 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFhuH-0001NP-Iw for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:10:29 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFhtJ-00019o-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:09:30 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFhsj-0000vw-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:08:53 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BFhsj-000KFl-Iv for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:53 +0000 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:08:52 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> To: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks- As many of you know, the topic of fast rerouting in IP (as opposed to MPLS-based FRR) has been brought up several times at the IETF meetings recently (see reading material at the end of the message). I believe that this work is important and there's some room for standardization here. More specifically, even though the exact algorithms of route calculation in IGPs are historically non-normative, the criteria, such as shortest path first, are. Forwarding packets along the feasible (non-SPF, but loop-free) next-hops, strictly speaking violates those, and if done incorrectly is likely to lead to routing loops. Hence, the need to standardize the criteria for feasible next-hop calculation and document possible algorithms for informational purposes (pretty much the way OSPF and ISIS do this.) Per above, I would like to bring the work on fast IP rerouting to the RTGWG and ask the IESG to extend its charter accordingly. The reason for not putting it to OSPF and ISIS WGs is that the base idea appears to be a more generic topic, not specific to a particular IGP. As part of the WG charter extension process, we will need to identify the milestones for the WG, documents that would be produced, as well as any documents that contain relevant information. These details will depend on the results of the discussion about the candidate WG document (draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt) that I will start shortly. In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG on a more generic question, independent of the details of any specific draft, namely: do you believe that we should add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the charter of RTGWG? Reading material: - Cengiz' slides at 55th IETF http://www.packetdesign.com/news/presentations/2002/fast-reroute6.pdf - Alia's slides at 59th IETF http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/04mar/slides/rtgarea-2/index.html Alia's draft: draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt - Early draft http://www.potaroo.net/ietf/old-ids/draft-kini-traf-restore-nsp-00.txt Thanks. -- Alex Zinin _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 19 19:44:05 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21611 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFiOr-0002Qi-Pb for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:42:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3JNg5di009332 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:42:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFiHc-0000QY-FW for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:34:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21197 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFiHa-0007OF-OP for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:34:34 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFiGc-00079I-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:33:34 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFiFx-0006uc-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:32:53 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFiAJ-0007OB-HU; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFi4y-0005w3-39 for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:21:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20478 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFi4w-0004AY-Fw for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:21:30 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFi45-0003tW-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:20:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFi35-0003aD-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:19:35 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BFi35-000OIh-R0 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:19:35 +0000 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:19:35 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <706435436.20040419161935@psg.com> To: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks- This is to start a 2-week WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt. The document target status is Informational. The Last Call ends on May 3rd, 2004. Please send your comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. The document is available from the WG web-page or at the following URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt The Abstract from the document is included below: This document describes how conventional hop-by-hop link-state routing protocols interact with new Traffic Engineering capabilities to create IGP shortcuts. In particular this document describes how Dijkstra's SPF algorithm should be adapted so that link-state IGPs will calculate IP routes to forward traffic over tunnels that are set up by Traffic Engineering. -- Alex Zinin _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 19 20:24:34 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA23641 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFiws-0002j8-7c for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:17:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3K0HEdZ010478 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:17:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFipQ-00013J-MS for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA22906 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFipO-0000Or-IV for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:30 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFioW-00009z-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:08:37 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFinu-0007iV-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:07:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFik5-0007ni-Uk; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFifh-00068l-D5 for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:59:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA22305 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFiff-0005iN-FV for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:59:27 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFieh-0005UU-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:58:28 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFie8-0005Gy-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:57:52 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BFie8-0008nl-MY for rtgwg@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:57:52 +0000 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:57:52 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <553299986.20040419165752@psg.com> To: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Comments on draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks- Heads-up first: we're still awaiting a formal IPR statement from Avici related to this draft. According to the authors, the statement has been submitted to the secretariat, however, it is not yet available at the IETF web-site. At the RTG Area meeting in Seoul we agreed to take the discussion on this draft to RTGWG. If folks feel like sending comments on the draft here before the statement shows up, please do so, however, I will not start a formal call soliciting feedback on the draft as a candidate for a WG item until the IPR statement is available. One high-level comment from me at this time, though. One can identify two mechanisms in the draft: loop-free next-hops (aka feasible next-hops in prior art), and U-turns. While the former is quite well and widely understood and requires no modifications to the routing protocols machinery (except for route calculation, of course), moderate modifications to the forwarding logic, and is backwards-compatible with the installed base, the latter changes the forwarding operation substantially, and requires extensions to routing protocols to ensure loop-free operation with regular routers. I believe we have a reasonable understanding of the feasible next-hops mechanism to produce an IETF standard for this. I'm getting different messages regarding U-turns. On the one hand we should be careful about changing the forwarding behavior the way U-turns do, on the other I am hearing from the SPs that they need U-turns to get sufficient topology coverage and that the IETF should work on this (hopefully we will hear from them on the list). Provided that there's enough interest in this topic in general (see other thread on WG charter extension) and that folks are interested in U-turns, a possible approach we could take is to split this work, put the spec for the feasible next-hops approach on the STD tracks, and publish the U-turns mechanisms as Experimental. -- Alex http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 05:46:02 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05201 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFrjD-0000gf-Up for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:39:44 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3K9dhFL002633 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:39:43 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFrdl-0007lM-4t for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:34:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04702 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFrdh-0005A3-NJ for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:34:01 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFrch-0004oy-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:33:00 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFrbc-0004TO-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:31:52 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFrWu-00061Z-DK; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:27:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFrSv-0005Bi-7X for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:22:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04105 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFrSr-00021A-SC for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:22:49 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFrRt-0001kX-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:21:49 -0400 Received: from tms002bb.han.telia.se ([131.115.230.133]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFrRG-0001Vk-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:21:10 -0400 Received: from tms001fe.tcad.telia.se ([131.115.230.143]) by tms002bb.han.telia.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:21:10 +0200 Received: from YBDH014427.teliasonera.com ([131.115.159.200]) by tms001fe.tcad.telia.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:21:09 +0200 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.0.20040420111748.0436cde0@tmspop.telia.se> X-Sender: ther45@tmspop.telia.se X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:21:09 +0200 To: Alex Zinin , rtgwg@ietf.org From: Thomas Eriksson Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs In-Reply-To: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> References: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Apr 2004 09:21:09.0955 (UTC) FILETIME=[D13DE930:01C426B8] Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 >do you > believe that we should add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the > charter of RTGWG? Yes, this is a very important topic in my view. Thomas _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 06:07:39 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06113 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFs7o-0005Ye-9o for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:05:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KA58hP021359 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:05:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFs2j-0004Yd-Lt for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:59:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05847 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFs2g-0004FE-0w for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:59:50 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFs1i-0003zL-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:58:50 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFs0m-0003kJ-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:57:52 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFru9-00035r-S5; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:51:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFrsB-0002cv-Qh for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:48:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05297 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFrs8-0001Gc-7O for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:48:56 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFrrE-00010Y-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:48:00 -0400 Received: from smail.alcatel.fr ([64.208.49.165]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFrqP-0000kn-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:47:09 -0400 Received: from bemail05.netfr.alcatel.fr (bemail05.netfr.alcatel.fr [155.132.251.11]) by smail.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/NETFR) with ESMTP id i3K9l8QP028154; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:47:08 +0200 Received: from alcatel.be ([138.203.118.2]) by bemail05.netfr.alcatel.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with ESMTP id 2004042011470638:2370 ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:47:06 +0200 Message-ID: <4084F22B.6040007@alcatel.be> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:49:31 +0200 From: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zinin CC: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs References: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> In-Reply-To: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on BEMAIL05/BE/ALCATEL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 04/20/2004 11:47:06, Serialize by Router on BEMAIL05/BE/ALCATEL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 04/20/2004 11:47:08, Serialize complete at 04/20/2004 11:47:08 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Alcanet-MTA-scanned-and-authorized: yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG on a more generic > question, independent of the details of any specific draft, namely: do you > believe that we should add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the > charter of RTGWG? yes, this important topic should be added in the rtgwg charter thanks, - dimitri. _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 07:49:34 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11016 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFtgY-0000bO-7c for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:45:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KBj6v1002301 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:45:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFtdV-0008Lf-MK for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:41:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10723 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFtdV-0000Pb-0F for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:41:57 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFtcU-000094-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:40:55 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFtbT-0007bv-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:39:51 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFtVp-0005sC-I6; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:34:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFtRv-0004js-6h for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:29:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10184 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFtRu-0004vM-Gt for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:29:58 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFtQx-0004gI-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:29:00 -0400 Received: from ckmso1.att.com ([12.20.58.69] helo=ckmso1.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFtQc-0004R3-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:28:38 -0400 Received: from attrh5i.attrh.att.com ([135.38.62.12]) by ckmso1.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.0) with ESMTP id i3KBR1Wk025694 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:28:07 -0400 Received: from kcclust06evs1.ugd.att.com (135.38.164.88) by attrh5i.attrh.att.com (6.5.032) id 4082A75C00059597; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:27:28 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6489.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:28:06 -0500 Message-ID: <9473683187ADC049A855ED2DA739ABCA02BA3AF8@KCCLUST06EVS1.ugd.att.com> Thread-Topic: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Thread-Index: AcQmZaPeSssRuR+pQR68fdRoPZpdBwAZIwxQ From: "Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS" To: "Alex Zinin" , Cc: "Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > do you believe that we should add the topic of "IP fast > reroute in IGPs" to the charter of RTGWG? Yes, important topic and should be added to the RTGWG charter. Jerry _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 08:37:57 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13513 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFuSW-00063I-8l for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:34:40 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KCYetu023256 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:34:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFuN4-0004Iu-N2 for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13217 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFuN3-0005kp-J7 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:01 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFuM7-0005Ut-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:28:03 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFuLc-0005FB-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:27:32 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFuJB-0002uf-Oq; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:25:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFuEH-0001ZT-Op for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:19:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12931 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFuEG-0003RA-G1 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:19:56 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFuDK-00039f-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:18:58 -0400 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFuCD-0002bv-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:17:49 -0400 Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i3KCHGq22911; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:17:16 -0400 Message-ID: <0D7FC1D8D861D511AEA70002A52CE5E609FA642C@zcard0ke.ca.nortel.com> From: "Don Fedyk" To: Alex Zinin , rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:17:14 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG > on a more generic question, independent of the details of > any specific draft, namely: do you believe that we should > add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the charter of RTGWG? Yes it is an important area and we should add it to the charter. Don _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 11:02:47 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23792 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFwkB-0001sd-9D for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:01:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KF13Pv007219 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:01:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFwR5-0003w4-IH for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:41:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22483 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFwR3-0004oG-71 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:41:17 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFwQ3-0004V1-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:40:15 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFwPB-0004Ap-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:39:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFwID-00013H-3s; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:32:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFwCL-0006nL-FO for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:26:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21490 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFwCJ-0000at-5A for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:26:03 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFwBI-0000Kx-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:25:00 -0400 Received: from m106.maoz.com ([205.167.76.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFwAE-0007e4-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:23:54 -0400 Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3KENLn9023181; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:23:21 -0700 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id i3KENLK0023180; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:23:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:23:21 -0700 From: David Meyer To: Alex Zinin Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Message-ID: <20040420142321.GA23170@1-4-5.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-gpg-fingerprint: 2409 8B50 B389 A307 BA5C 2A16 3918 03D6 A099 D8A7 X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 > do you > believe that we should add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the > charter of RTGWG? Yes (important topic, of interst to many). Dave _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 13:24:56 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06115 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFyhB-0004rQ-O4 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:06:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KH65Wi018680 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:06:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFyOH-0004gM-JS for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:46:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02882 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFyOF-0003f0-WB for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:46:32 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFyNK-0003Ma-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:45:35 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFyMg-00033e-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:44:54 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFxo3-0003ke-7C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:09:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFxKj-0001VK-PE for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:38:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26646 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFxKi-00064n-Nh for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:38:48 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxJP-0005fL-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:37:28 -0400 Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxI3-0004zd-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:36:03 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (pcp09296126pcs.arlngt01.va.comcast.net[69.143.165.226]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004042015353201500r9r2pe> (Authid: hcb8); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:35:32 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: hcb8@smtp.comcast.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0D7FC1D8D861D511AEA70002A52CE5E609FA642C@zcard0ke.ca.nortel.com> References: <0D7FC1D8D861D511AEA70002A52CE5E609FA642C@zcard0ke.ca.nortel.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:35:28 -0400 To: rtgwg@ietf.org From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 > > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG >> on a more generic question, independent of the details of >> any specific draft, namely: do you believe that we should >> add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the charter of RTGWG? > >Yes it is an important area and we should add it to the charter. > I agree. One point that might be considered in the charter is that the problem has three parts: 1. path determination that precomputes (or rapidly recomputes) alternate paths 2. modifying FIBs with the new path 3. Detecting a malfunction requiring reroute. #1 and #2 are clearly within scope. Perhaps it's too obvious to mention, but #3 really has more scope than subsecond hellos, which is relevant. I believe we also want to have well-defined primitives (even if SNMP traps) that allow the rerouting process to receive specific hardware/network management asynchronous events to start the process. _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 13:27:42 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06406 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFyoh-0000Pj-NZ for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:52 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KHDpkI001571 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:51 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFyTx-0007fN-Es for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:52:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03501 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFyTv-0005Vm-My for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:52:23 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFyT0-0005C8-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:51:27 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFyS3-0004t4-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:50:27 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFxq9-0004z9-Ai; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:11:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFxYy-0006NK-KC for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:53:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28493 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFxYx-0003Fx-Be for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:53:31 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxXu-0002qC-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:52:26 -0400 Received: from [208.246.215.201] (helo=mailhost.avici.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxWK-00028p-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:50:49 -0400 Received: from aatlas-lt2.avici.com (b2-pc109.avici.com [10.2.100.109]) by mailhost.avici.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3KFoA3x027408 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:50:10 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040420114934.024fd8e8@pop.avici.com> X-Sender: aatlas@pop.avici.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:50:19 -0400 To: rtgwg@ietf.org From: Alia Atlas Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs In-Reply-To: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Avici-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Avici-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 At 07:08 PM 4/19/2004, Alex Zinin wrote: > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG on a more > generic > question, independent of the details of any specific draft, namely: do you > believe that we should add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the > charter of RTGWG? Yes Alia _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 13:29:36 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06580 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFysA-00022l-Bw for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:17:28 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KHHQRt007845 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:17:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFyaY-0001wc-0T for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:59:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04059 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFyaW-0007bV-99 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:59:12 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFyZc-0007K4-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:58:16 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFyYk-000735-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:57:22 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFyH4-0001Ca-IF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:39:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFxiy-0000fC-2W for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:03:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29352 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFxiw-0006X5-Pm for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:03:50 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxhw-0006AP-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:02:48 -0400 Received: from ns.execdsl.net ([208.184.15.238] helo=EXECDSL.COM) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxgL-0005Uk-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:01:09 -0400 Received: from [64.254.114.114] (HELO JLaptop.stevecrocker.com) by EXECDSL.COM (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3) with ESMTP id 6856312 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:01:03 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040420115408.0239bde0@localhost> X-Sender: joel@stevecrocker.com@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:00:47 -0400 To: rtgwg@ietf.org From: "Joel M. Halpern" Subject: Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt In-Reply-To: <706435436.20040419161935@psg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 I do not believe this document is ready for publication as an Informational RFC. As I have said to the author's directly, there are a number of places where improvements in clarity in this document are needed. Examples include clarifying the intended scope (implicit in saying that it is the reach of the SPF, but it should be explicit) clarifying that the "metrics" are internal and are relative to a model of the internal path processing logic, and clarifications on the technical requirements needed to preserve loop freedom. In fact, given that the IETF focus is on interoperability and (for routing) loop prevention, I would think taht significantly more attention should go into explaining what the conditions are that any technique of this sort must meet in order to achieve loop avoidance, and then a description of the particular technique of interest to the authors. Yours, Joel M. Halpern At 04:19 PM 4/19/2004 -0700, Alex Zinin wrote: >Folks- > > This is to start a 2-week WG Last Call for > draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt. > The document target status is Informational. The Last Call ends on May > 3rd, 2004. > Please send your comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. > > The document is available from the WG web-page or at the following URL: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt > > The Abstract from the document is included below: > > This document describes how conventional hop-by-hop link-state > routing protocols interact with new Traffic Engineering capabilities > to create IGP shortcuts. In particular this document describes how > Dijkstra's SPF algorithm should be adapted so that link-state IGPs > will calculate IP routes to forward traffic over tunnels that are > set up by Traffic Engineering. > >-- >Alex Zinin > > >_______________________________________________ >Rtgwg mailing list >Rtgwg@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 18:22:15 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03266 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BG3Vo-000554-4j for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:14:42 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KMEeVK019525 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:14:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BG3Ft-0006GT-E7 for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29796 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BG3Fq-0004CM-Tm for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:10 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BG3Ew-00048V-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:57:15 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BG3E4-000432-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:56:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BG2pz-00018f-4i; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:31:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BG1cd-0007wT-OS for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA19897 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BG1cc-0007C6-2X for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:34 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BG1bu-00075F-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:12:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BG1aw-0006xM-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:11:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BG1at-000Psh-Jr; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:11:47 +0000 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:11:47 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1485015080.20040420131147@psg.com> To: "Joel M. Halpern" CC: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040420115408.0239bde0@localhost> References: <706435436.20040419161935@psg.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20040420115408.0239bde0@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel, Thanks for reviewing the document! The draft is a WG item now. In the spirit of constructive cooperation, would you be able to come up with specific text changes that, in your opinion, would improve the document? -- Alex http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ Tuesday, April 20, 2004, 9:00:47 AM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > I do not believe this document is ready for publication as an Informational > RFC. > As I have said to the author's directly, there are a number of places where > improvements in clarity in this document are needed. Examples include > clarifying the intended scope (implicit in saying that it is the reach of > the SPF, but it should be explicit) clarifying that the "metrics" are > internal and are relative to a model of the internal path processing logic, > and clarifications on the technical requirements needed to preserve loop > freedom. > In fact, given that the IETF focus is on interoperability and (for routing) > loop prevention, I would think taht significantly more attention should go > into explaining what the conditions are that any technique of this sort > must meet in order to achieve loop avoidance, and then a description of the > particular technique of interest to the authors. > Yours, > Joel M. Halpern > At 04:19 PM 4/19/2004 -0700, Alex Zinin wrote: >>Folks- >> >> This is to start a 2-week WG Last Call for >> draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt. >> The document target status is Informational. The Last Call ends on May >> 3rd, 2004. >> Please send your comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. >> >> The document is available from the WG web-page or at the following URL: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-rtgwg-igp-shortcut-00.txt >> >> The Abstract from the document is included below: >> >> This document describes how conventional hop-by-hop link-state >> routing protocols interact with new Traffic Engineering capabilities >> to create IGP shortcuts. In particular this document describes how >> Dijkstra's SPF algorithm should be adapted so that link-state IGPs >> will calculate IP routes to forward traffic over tunnels that are >> set up by Traffic Engineering. >> >>-- >>Alex Zinin >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rtgwg mailing list >>Rtgwg@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > _______________________________________________ > Rtgwg mailing list > Rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 04:46:25 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA12112 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGZiA-0003cL-Ld for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:37:34 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3M8bYCS013897 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:37:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGZgh-0002s8-FN for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:36:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11843 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGZgc-0004AC-Nw for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:35:58 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGZfa-0003w8-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:34:55 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGZf3-0003hg-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:34:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGZZs-0000AB-SH; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:29:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGZYf-0007zv-2G for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:27:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11314 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGZYa-0002Fd-A6 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:27:40 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGZXd-00022K-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:26:42 -0400 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=strange-brew.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGZX3-0001kQ-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:26:05 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp4374.cisco.com [10.61.81.21]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id i3M8PZ717749; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:25:35 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> References: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org From: stefano previdi Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:55:24 +0200 To: Alex Zinin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DATE_IN_PAST_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Apr 20, 2004, at 1:08 AM, Alex Zinin wrote: > > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG on a more > generic > question, independent of the details of any specific draft, namely: > do you > believe that we should add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to > the > charter of RTGWG? I believe we have some techniques of ipfrr that don't explictely require interoperability however, some extensions to routing protocols will be necessary (not for the ipfrr algo computation itself) and anyway I believe is a good idea to have some work done under ietf umbrella. s. _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 06:27:29 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16327 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGbNm-0007HK-9q for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:24:38 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3MAOcgc027974 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:24:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGbDR-0003iT-4i for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:13:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15898 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGbDL-0003Ih-Hd for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:13:51 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGbCJ-00033m-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:12:48 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGbBS-0002qV-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:11:54 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGb0u-0006mf-7A; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:01:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGav4-0003jf-6o for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:54:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA15210 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGauy-0006hJ-KM for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:54:52 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGatt-0006SE-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:53:46 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGat1-00062H-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:52:51 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3M9qMj04422 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:52:22 +0300 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:52:22 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Yes, I think this is an important topic worth addressing. However, I am similarly concerned as Howard that we have identified the problems we are tackling correctly, and that we get all the pieces in place as well. (However, currently I'm thinking that sub-second Hellos or similar may be sufficient for 3.) On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: > > > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG > >> on a more generic question, independent of the details of > >> any specific draft, namely: do you believe that we should > >> add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the charter of RTGWG? > > > >Yes it is an important area and we should add it to the charter. > > > > I agree. One point that might be considered in the charter is that > the problem has three parts: > 1. path determination that precomputes (or rapidly recomputes) > alternate paths > 2. modifying FIBs with the new path > 3. Detecting a malfunction requiring reroute. > > #1 and #2 are clearly within scope. Perhaps it's too obvious to > mention, but #3 really has more scope than subsecond hellos, which is > relevant. I believe we also want to have well-defined primitives > (even if SNMP traps) that allow the rerouting process to receive > specific hardware/network management asynchronous events to start the > process. > > _______________________________________________ > Rtgwg mailing list > Rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 19:32:16 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12392 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGnbS-0004bT-DM for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:27:34 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3MNRY1n017691 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:27:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGnNw-0000mx-Ec for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:13:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA11443 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGnNs-0001bk-UY for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:13:33 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGnMx-0001Ir-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:12:36 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGnME-00011b-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:11:50 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGnDo-00051q-Sd; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:03:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGn1c-00006G-Ge for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:50:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09617 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGn1X-0002co-BB for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:50:27 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGn0Y-0002Mt-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:49:27 -0400 Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGn0C-000261-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:49:04 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (pcp09296126pcs.arlngt01.va.comcast.net[69.143.165.226]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004042222483001100p9rmfe> (Authid: hcb8); Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:48:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: hcb8@smtp.comcast.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:48:28 -0400 To: rtgwg@ietf.org From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 At 12:52 PM +0300 4/22/04, Pekka Savola wrote: >Yes, I think this is an important topic worth addressing. > >However, I am similarly concerned as Howard that we have identified >the problems we are tackling correctly, and that we get all the pieces >in place as well. (However, currently I'm thinking that sub-second >Hellos or similar may be sufficient for 3.) Your point about #3 raises some interesting questions about the real requirement. I have seen service providers want sub-50 millisecond reconvergence, but I suspect that is simply a cut-and-paste from SS#7 and SONET cutover. My sense has been that any control plane that has a significant number of peers and also a subsecond hello requirement will need to be multiprocessor, with hardware offload of the hello processing. This does get into implementation and thus might be out of scope, but it's worth a passing mention. > >On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: >> > > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG >> >> on a more generic question, independent of the details of >> >> any specific draft, namely: do you believe that we should >> >> add the topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the charter of RTGWG? >> > >> >Yes it is an important area and we should add it to the charter. >> > >> >> I agree. One point that might be considered in the charter is that >> the problem has three parts: >> 1. path determination that precomputes (or rapidly recomputes) >> alternate paths >> 2. modifying FIBs with the new path >> 3. Detecting a malfunction requiring reroute. >> >> #1 and #2 are clearly within scope. Perhaps it's too obvious to >> mention, but #3 really has more scope than subsecond hellos, which is >> relevant. I believe we also want to have well-defined primitives >> (even if SNMP traps) that allow the rerouting process to receive >> specific hardware/network management asynchronous events to start the > > process. _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 20:53:04 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA16018 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGopJ-0005pb-UO for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:45:57 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3N0jvQ6022416 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:45:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGohl-00036R-0j for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:38:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA15146 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGohg-0000Cz-QG for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:38:04 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGofd-0007UH-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:35:58 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGoed-00079c-03 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:34:55 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BGoIk-00072c-Ba for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:12:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGoAl-0001CC-7a; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:04:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGnyU-00056f-AU for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:51:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA13514 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGnyQ-00043k-Bs for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:51:18 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGnxT-0003oY-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:50:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGnwa-0003L2-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:49:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2004 17:01:44 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from zaliw2k01 (che-vpn-cluster-1-70.cisco.com [10.86.240.70]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3MNms6L005521; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:48:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "zafar ali" To: "'Alex Zinin'" , Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:49:00 -0400 Organization: Cisco Systems Message-ID: <000a01c428c4$6360b600$f99ee440@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 In-Reply-To: <545478811.20040419160852@psg.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alex, I support this notion. Thanks Regards... Zafar >-----Original Message----- >From: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org [mailto:rtgwg-admin@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Alex Zinin >Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:09 PM >To: rtgwg@ietf.org >Subject: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs > > >Folks- > > As many of you know, the topic of fast rerouting in IP (as >opposed to MPLS-based FRR) has been brought up several times >at the IETF meetings recently (see reading material at the >end of the message). > > I believe that this work is important and there's some room >for standardization here. More specifically, even though the >exact algorithms of route calculation in IGPs are >historically non-normative, the criteria, such as shortest >path first, are. Forwarding packets along the feasible >(non-SPF, but loop-free) next-hops, strictly speaking >violates those, and if done incorrectly is likely to lead to >routing loops. Hence, the need to standardize the criteria for > feasible next-hop calculation and document possible >algorithms for informational purposes (pretty much the way >OSPF and ISIS do this.) > > Per above, I would like to bring the work on fast IP >rerouting to the RTGWG and ask the IESG to extend its charter >accordingly. The reason for not putting it to OSPF and ISIS >WGs is that the base idea appears to be a more generic topic, >not specific to a particular IGP. > > As part of the WG charter extension process, we will need to >identify the milestones for the WG, documents that would be >produced, as well as any documents that contain relevant >information. These details will depend on the results of the >discussion about the candidate WG document > (draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt) that I will start shortly. > > In this thread I would like to solicit feedback from the WG >on a more generic question, independent of the details of any >specific draft, namely: do you believe that we should add the >topic of "IP fast reroute in IGPs" to the charter of RTGWG? > > Reading material: > - Cengiz' slides at 55th IETF >http://www.packetdesign.com/news/presentations/2002/fast-rerout e6.pdf - Alia's slides at 59th IETF http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/04mar/slides/rtgarea-2/index.html Alia's draft: draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt - Early draft http://www.potaroo.net/ietf/old-ids/draft-kini-traf-restore-nsp-00.txt Thanks. -- Alex Zinin _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 20:53:33 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA16073 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGopM-0005rp-0c for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:46:00 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3N0jxOw022545 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:45:59 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGoiL-00038m-U2 for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:38:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA15298 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGoiH-0000V6-IP for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:38:41 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGogA-0007bO-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:36:31 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGoek-00079c-02 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:35:02 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BGoEV-0006uq-LD for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:07:55 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGo8n-00008E-Qy; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:02:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGnst-0003ZV-SZ for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:45:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA13291 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGnsq-0002Us-1x for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:45:32 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGnrt-0002EN-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:44:33 -0400 Received: from m106.maoz.com ([205.167.76.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGnrF-0001x2-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:43:53 -0400 Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3MNhLEY029232; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:43:21 -0700 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id i3MNhLdh029231; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:43:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:43:21 -0700 From: David Meyer To: "Howard C. Berkowitz" Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Message-ID: <20040422234321.GA29149@1-4-5.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-gpg-fingerprint: 2409 8B50 B389 A307 BA5C 2A16 3918 03D6 A099 D8A7 X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 06:48:28PM -0400, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: >> At 12:52 PM +0300 4/22/04, Pekka Savola wrote: >> >Yes, I think this is an important topic worth addressing. >> > >> >However, I am similarly concerned as Howard that we have identified >> >the problems we are tackling correctly, and that we get all the pieces >> >in place as well. (However, currently I'm thinking that sub-second >> >Hellos or similar may be sufficient for 3.) >> >> Your point about #3 raises some interesting questions about the real >> requirement. I have seen service providers want sub-50 millisecond >> reconvergence, but I suspect that is simply a cut-and-paste from SS#7 >> and SONET cutover. I did a lot of work on this exactly this topic when I was at Sprint, and I the only thing I could find that approached a 50ms-like convergence requirement was some older mux equipment that would reset if it lost signal for more that about 75ms. BTW, a reasonable reference here is "Is 50 ms Restoration Necessary?" by Jeff Schallenberg. I put the ppt on http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/Schallenburg_50ms.ppt for those who might be interested. Dave _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 21:09:06 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17020 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGp9k-0003PI-KZ for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:07:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3N17487013088 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:07:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGp0K-0000Tn-5Y for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:57:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA16440 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGp0F-0005SD-OW for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:57:15 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGoz2-00052j-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:56:01 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGoxw-0004iZ-03 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:54:52 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BGorc-0008BK-Rx for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:48:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGojY-0003ad-LE; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:40:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGocD-0000cU-9G for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:32:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14846 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGoc9-0006eb-1C for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:32:21 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGobD-0006PZ-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:31:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGoaF-0005vC-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:30:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2004 17:28:47 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from zaliw2k01 (che-vpn-cluster-1-70.cisco.com [10.86.240.70]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3N0TlYu010810; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:29:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "zafar ali" To: "'David Meyer'" , "'Howard C. Berkowitz'" Cc: Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:29:41 -0400 Organization: Cisco Systems Message-ID: <000201c428ca$18f264a0$f99ee440@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 In-Reply-To: <20040422234321.GA29149@1-4-5.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >-----Original Message----- >From: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org [mailto:rtgwg-admin@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of David Meyer >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:43 PM >To: Howard C. Berkowitz >Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs > > >On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 06:48:28PM -0400, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: >>> At 12:52 PM +0300 4/22/04, Pekka Savola wrote: >>> >Yes, I think this is an important topic worth addressing. >>> > >>> >However, I am similarly concerned as Howard that we have >identified >>> >the problems we are tackling correctly, and that we get all the >>> >pieces in place as well. (However, currently I'm thinking that >>> >sub-second Hellos or similar may be sufficient for 3.) >>> >>> Your point about #3 raises some interesting questions about the real >>> requirement. I have seen service providers want sub-50 millisecond >>> reconvergence, but I suspect that is simply a cut-and-paste >from SS#7 >>> and SONET cutover. > > I did a lot of work on this exactly this topic when I was > at Sprint, and I the only thing I could find that > approached a 50ms-like convergence requirement was some > older mux equipment that would reset if it lost signal > for more that about 75ms. > > BTW, a reasonable reference here is "Is 50 ms Restoration > Necessary?" by Jeff Schallenberg. I put the ppt on > http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/Schallenburg_50ms.ppt for those > who might be interested. > I agree, I have seen similar studies else where that show that 50 msec is NOT a requirement from application's view-point. Thanks Regards... Zafar > Dave > >_______________________________________________ >Rtgwg mailing list >Rtgwg@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 22:16:52 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20295 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGq3w-0004k4-I7 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:05:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3N258fA018224 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:05:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGq2S-0004Cl-7q for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:03:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19609 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGq2N-0000BG-7d for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:03:31 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGq1U-0007hI-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:02:37 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGq0a-0007Oc-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:01:40 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGpsD-0001EM-Dx; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGpk3-0006xf-HL for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:44:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA18615 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGpjy-0002lR-G8 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:44:30 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGpj1-0002RZ-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:43:32 -0400 Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGpi1-0001u8-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:42:29 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (pcp09296126pcs.arlngt01.va.comcast.net[69.143.165.226]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004042301420201600dd6fle> (Authid: hcb8); Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:42:02 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: hcb8@smtp.comcast.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201c428ca$18f264a0$f99ee440@amer.cisco.com> References: <000201c428ca$18f264a0$f99ee440@amer.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:41:59 -0400 To: From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" Subject: RE: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 At 8:29 PM -0400 4/22/04, zafar ali wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >>From: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org [mailto:rtgwg-admin@ietf.org] On >>Behalf Of David Meyer >>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:43 PM >>To: Howard C. Berkowitz >>Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs >> >> >>On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 06:48:28PM -0400, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: >>>> At 12:52 PM +0300 4/22/04, Pekka Savola wrote: >>>> >Yes, I think this is an important topic worth addressing. >>>> > >>>> >However, I am similarly concerned as Howard that we have >>identified >>>> >the problems we are tackling correctly, and that we get all the >>>> >pieces in place as well. (However, currently I'm thinking that >>>> >sub-second Hellos or similar may be sufficient for 3.) >>>> >>>> Your point about #3 raises some interesting questions about the real >>>> requirement. I have seen service providers want sub-50 millisecond >>>> reconvergence, but I suspect that is simply a cut-and-paste >>from SS#7 >>>> and SONET cutover. >> >> I did a lot of work on this exactly this topic when I was >> at Sprint, and I the only thing I could find that >> approached a 50ms-like convergence requirement was some >> older mux equipment that would reset if it lost signal >> for more that about 75ms. >> >> BTW, a reasonable reference here is "Is 50 ms Restoration >> Necessary?" by Jeff Schallenberg. I put the ppt on >> http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/Schallenburg_50ms.ppt for those >> who might be interested. >> > >I agree, I have seen similar studies else where that show that 50 msec is >NOT a requirement from application's view-point. > That is indeed my impression, at least with respect to POTS networks. When I was at a router vendor, however, carrier customers often demanded it, without knowing exactly why. Somewhat apropos of the topic of when things happen in the router, our I-D on single-router BGP convergence, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-conterm-05.txt was conditionally approved by the IESG on April 2. They made some good editorial suggestions, but I am trying to find out the administrative procedure to make the changes and then get the revised document to the RFC Editor. With the other documents I've gotten through the IESG, they either approved it or not. _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 23 00:35:21 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA27118 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGsNu-0008PV-3V for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:33:54 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3N4XsAS032325 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:33:54 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGsHt-0006qF-Cs for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:27:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA26756 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGsHo-0000Bh-Sy for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:27:36 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGsGz-0007hd-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:26:46 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGsGC-0007Qp-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:25:56 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGrzv-0000Vy-W9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:09:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGryP-0007ut-8y for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:07:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA25769 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGryK-0002Wq-OL for rtgwg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:07:28 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGrxM-0002Gr-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:06:28 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGrwK-0001ln-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:05:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3N44hN21849; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:04:43 +0300 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:04:43 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: David Meyer cc: "Howard C. Berkowitz" , Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs In-Reply-To: <20040422234321.GA29149@1-4-5.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, David Meyer wrote: > >> >However, I am similarly concerned as Howard that we have identified > >> >the problems we are tackling correctly, and that we get all the pieces > >> >in place as well. (However, currently I'm thinking that sub-second > >> >Hellos or similar may be sufficient for 3.) > >> > >> Your point about #3 raises some interesting questions about the real > >> requirement. I have seen service providers want sub-50 millisecond > >> reconvergence, but I suspect that is simply a cut-and-paste from SS#7 > >> and SONET cutover. > > I did a lot of work on this exactly this topic when I was > at Sprint, and I the only thing I could find that > approached a 50ms-like convergence requirement was some > older mux equipment that would reset if it lost signal > for more that about 75ms. I've talked with some researchers about this and the reason they seemed to like sub-50ms, namely 10ms, is that with that you'd just lose one VoIP packet, and that would be automatically fixed by the error correction. My take on that was a lot like.. "uhh, the user isn't going to notice 100ms break if it happens once a month, and even 1s breaks would be acceptable if they didn't happen too frequently." So, I don't think sub-50ms is a real requirement, but if we can get to sub-200/250ms area, we should be pretty well off. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 29 17:11:19 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA01817 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJIb8-0004Lb-CJ for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:57:34 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3TKvYC7016694 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:57:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJHqa-0001PO-9Q for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:09:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25259 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJHqT-0006u1-H0 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:09:21 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHpY-0006tK-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:08:25 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHpA-0006rz-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:08:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJHan-00058d-AN; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:53:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJHSO-0002as-Cg for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:44:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24017 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJHSH-0005li-PJ for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:44:21 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHRO-0005hm-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:43:26 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHQc-0005eM-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:42:38 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BJHQf-0006Vg-By for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:42:41 +0000 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:42:40 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1625160134.20040429124240@psg.com> To: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: Work on IP fast rerouting in IGPs In-Reply-To: References: <20040422234321.GA29149@1-4-5.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks- There's a clear consensus in the WG that this work item needs to be taken on. I also sense that it will be useful to produce a framework kind of document explaining what we're talking about and how different pieces of technology fit together. I would be fine with this, provided that it will be a lean and crisp document that we can finish within months, and someone commits to take an active (I mean really active) lead on this. We also need to think about how/whether MIBs may be affected. It is possible that the precalculated alternate next hops need to be reported in the MIB and marked as such. Opinions are welcome. At this point I see the following milestones that need to be added (the discussion on Alia's document may yield more): MAY 2004 Submit initial WG I-D documenting framework for fast IP rerouting MAY 2004 Submit initial WG I-D documenting basic fast IP rerouting mechanism based on precalculation of feasible loop-free next hops SEP 2004 Submit framework for fast IP rerouting to IESG for publication as INFO SEP 2004 Submit basic fast IP rerouting mechanism to IESG for publication as PS I will bring these to the IESG unless I hear an objection within a few days. -- Alex _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 29 17:12:06 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA01950 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJIbm-0004ZH-7v for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:58:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3TKwExl017551 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:58:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJI3e-0006c2-1A for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:22:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25958 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJI3X-0000CW-25 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:22:51 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJI0O-0007RP-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:19:38 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHyw-0007Ei-03 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:18:06 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BJHqe-0007ld-BR for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:09:32 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJHdZ-0005jz-9u; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJHUa-0003V0-CR for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:46:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24166 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:46:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJHUT-0005vD-OC for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:46:37 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHTQ-0005rG-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:45:32 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHSs-0005nZ-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:44:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BJHSv-0006ou-VF for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:45:02 +0000 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:45:01 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1277626153.20040429124501@psg.com> To: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Avici Systems' Statement about IPR Claimed in draft-atlas-ip-local-protect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks- FYI, please be advised. The text of the statement is available at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/avici-ipr-draft-atlas-ip-local-protect.txt -- Alex _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 29 17:35:43 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04189 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJIvz-0007FI-S8 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:19:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3TLJ7K3027848 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:19:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJIpS-0004XY-F2 for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:12:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA01995 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJIpL-0006BM-5j for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:12:15 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJIoG-00062V-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:11:09 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJInJ-0005uj-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:10:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJIVo-0001x8-Au; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:52:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJHnj-0000Qq-PH for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:06:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25109 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJHnc-0006nw-Vx for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:06:25 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHmk-0006lX-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:05:31 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJHmM-0006j1-00 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:05:06 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BJHmP-000CDB-P5 for rtgwg@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:05:09 +0000 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:05:09 -0700 From: Alex Zinin Reply-To: Alex Zinin X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <363818486.20040429130509@psg.com> To: rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Review Call: draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt as WG item MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks- As discussed in Seoul, draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt is being considered for becoming a WG item. At this point I would like to solicit opinions on the following points: 1. Technical comments on the substance of the document 2. More specifically, comments on the U-Turn part (e.g. useful/not useful, comfortable/concerned with the approach, etc.) 3. Should the WG use this document as the basis for work on the IP fast reroute topic Please send your comments by May 9th. The document is available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-00.txt The IPR statement is available at: http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/avici-ipr-draft-atlas-ip-local-protect.txt Abstract from the document: This document defines an architecture and selection process for providing local protection for IP unicast and/or LDP traffic in the event of a single link or node failure until the router has converged. When computing the primary next-hop for a prefix, a router S also determines an alternate next-hop which can be used if the primary next-hop fails. The alternate can be either a loop-free alternate, which goes to a neighbor whose shortest path to the prefix does not go back through the router S, or a U-turn alternate, which goes to a neighbor whose primary next-hop to the prefix is the router S, and which has itself a loop-free node-protecting alternate, which thus does not go through router S to reach the destination prefix. A router may indicate the capability to break U-turns on its links; only such links can be used as U-turn alternate next-hops. To signal this capability, a router must be capable of detecting when it receives traffic for a given destination from a primary neighbor for that destination and the router must forward that traffic to the selected alternate next-hop. To support U-Turn alternates and node-protection, a router must know what links its neighbor can consider for alternates, how a neighbor will select an alternate, and upon which interfaces a neighbor can break U-turns. This document defines a common selection criteria which MUST be followed. In addition, it is necessary to signal two capabilities per link. First is whether U-turns can be broken on the link and second is whether the link can be used as an alternate, as determined administratively. -- Alex http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ _______________________________________________ Rtgwg mailing list Rtgwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 30 17:26:44 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04974 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJfKE-00012z-6W for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:13:38 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3ULDcA7004021 for rtgwg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:13:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJf4j-0004I0-7o for rtgwg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:57:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA02459 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJf4h-0000MK-8Z for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:57:35 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJf3s-0000Cj-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:56:44 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJf2t-00000F-00 for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:55:43 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BJf2t-0001sR-HK for rtgwg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:55:43 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJe7f-0003Re-Fx; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:56:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJdx8-0007Xu-Ki for rtgwg@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:45:42 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26378; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404301945.PAA26378@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-rtgwg-rfc3682bis-02.txt Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:45:38 -0400 Sender: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: rtgwg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : The Generalized TTL Security Mechanism (GTSM) Author(s) : V. Gill, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-rfc3682bis-02.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2004-4-30 The use of a packet's Time to Live (TTL) (IPv4) or Hop Limit (IPv6) to protect a protocol stack from CPU-utilization based attacks has been proposed in many settings (see for example, RFC 2461). This document generalizes these techniques for use by other protocols such as BGP (RFC 1771), Multicast Source Discovery Protocol (MSDP), Bidirectional Forwarding Detection, and Label Distribution Protocol (LDP) (RFC 3036). While the Generalized TTL Security Mechanism (GTSM) is most effective in protecting directly connected protocol peers, it can also provide a lower level of protection to multi-hop sessions. 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