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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: "Fred Baker (fred)" <fred@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses
Thread-Topic: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses
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Fred,

I don't follow the argument made in the previous email against the proposal=
 to use a simplified form of dest/src routing.  The argument seems to assum=
e that the destination prefix is completely ignored, which is not the case.=
  With this proposal, a packet is first routed based on longest match for d=
estination prefix.  The source prefix is only considered when the destinati=
on route lookup reaches ::/0.  Therefore, communication within the customer=
 network works as expected since there will be destination prefix matches c=
orresponding to the customer network.

In order to understand all of the details, I created an example topology be=
low that I believe covers most of the relevant PA multi-homing scenarios.  =
The customer site connects using four different ISPs.  ISP1 just offers Int=
ernet connectivity.  ISP2 just offers a service corresponding to destinatio=
n address B2.  ISP3 offers both Internet connectivity and a service corresp=
onding to B3.  ISP4 offers internet connectivity and a service correspondin=
g to B4.  The customer site has a provider-assigned subnet from each of the=
 ISPs (A1, A2, A3, and A4).  The customer site has two LANs.  LAN-Y (with h=
osts H21 and H22) is directly connected to R1, R2, and R3.  LAN-X (with hos=
ts H31 and H32) has to go through a routed hop (R7 or R8) to reach R1, R2, =
or R3.  The only way for any of the hosts to reach R4 (and ISP4) is through=
 R8.  The hosts on LAN-X have addresses from a subnet of each of the provid=
er assigned block ( subnets A1x, A2x, A3x, and A4x), while the hosts on LAN=
-Y have addresses from a subnet of each of the provider assigned block ( su=
bnets A1y, A2y, A3y, and A4y).  B0 represents a destination address somewhe=
re on the Internet unrelated to any of the ISPs.

                                             -----------------
   LAN-X        LAN-Y          ,-----.      /                 \
          +--+         +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
       +--+R7+-----+---+R1+-+   ISP 1   ---+--                 :
       |  +--+     |   +--+  `.       ,'   :                   :
   H31-+       H21-+           `-----'     :   The Internet    :
       |           |           ,-----.     :                   :
   H32-+  +--+ H22-+   +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
       +--+R8+-----+---+R2+-+   ISP 2   )  :                   :
          ++-+     |   +- +  `.       ,'   :                   :--B0
           |       |           `--+--'     :                   :
           |       |              |        :                   :
           |       |              B2       :                   :
           |       |                       :                   :
           |       |           ,-----.     :                   :
           |       |   +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
           |       +---+R3+-+   ISP 3   ---+---                :
           |           +--+  `.       ,'   :                   :
           |                   `--+--'     :                   :
           |                      |        :                   :
           |                      B3       :                   :
           |                               :                   :
           |                   ,-----.     :                   :
           |           +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
           +-----------+R4|-+   ISP 4   ---+---                :
                       +--+  `.       ,'   :                   :
                               `--+--'     :                   :
                                  |         \                 /
                                  B4         -----------------

We consider how H31 and H21 reach various destinations.  The destinations t=
o consider are B0, B2, B3, B4, H32 and H22.

First, we look at the information that the routers distribute among themsel=
ves using an IGP.

R1 originates a route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).

R2 originates a route for (D=3DB2).

R3 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA3) and (D=3DB3).

R4 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA4) and (D=3DB4).

R7 and R8 originates routes for (D=3DA1x), (D=3DA2x), (D=3DA3x), and (D=3DA=
4x), and (D=3DA1y), (D=3DA2y), (D=3DA3y), and (D=3DA4y).

Next, we look at the information that the routers distribute to hosts on th=
e LAN using the Neighbor Discovery protocol.  From Prefix information Optio=
ns (PIOs) in Router Advertisements, hosts on LAN-X learn that A1x, A2x, A3x=
, and A4x are on-link, while hosts on LAN-Y learn that A1y, A2y, A3y, and A=
4 are on-link.

A router indicates that it acts as a default router by advertising a non-ze=
ro Router Lifetime in a Router Advertisement. Or that it doesn't act as a d=
efault router by advertising a Router Lifetime value of zero.  A reasonable=
 choice in this network would be to have R1 and R3 advertise that they are =
default routers on LAN-Y and have R7 and R8 advertise that they are default=
 routers on LAN-X.

It appears to me that with just the information described above (that is, d=
estination routes and simplified dest/source routes distributed among the r=
outers, and the Router Advertisements on the LANs indicated default routers=
),  packets from H31 and H21 can reach all six destinations, assuming the h=
ost uses an acceptable source address for the given destination.  However, =
the next-hop chosen by the host may not be optimal.

For example, for a packet to get from H21 to H32, it may take the path H21-=
>R1->R7->H32, instead of the more direct path H21->R7->H32.  However, this =
situation can be improved using existing mechanisms by having R7 advertise =
Route information Options (RIOs) for prefixes A1x, A2x, A3x, and A4x into L=
AN-Y so that H21 can choose R7 as its next-hop to directly reach H32.

draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 points out an example of a host making =
a sub-optimal choice of next-hop related to multi-homing.  In the topology =
above, when H21 sends a packet with src in A1y and dest =3D B0, it could ch=
oose next-hop R3.  This would require R3 to forward the packet to R1 based =
on the fact that R1 originated an IGP route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).  draft-=
ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 proposes to have hosts use the PIOs in Router=
 Advertisements to make better choices of next-hops.  Assuming that only R1=
 advertises a PIO for A1y, then H21 can use that information to send a pack=
et with src in A1y to R1 as its default next-hop.  This seems like a reason=
able optimization.

I would like to make two observations about the analysis above.  First, the=
 solution proposed in draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 is consistent wit=
h the proposed simplified form of dest/source routing.  draft-ietf-6man-mul=
ti-homed-host-06 only allows one to choose a default router based on source=
 prefix.  It doesn't provide a way to pair an arbitrary RIO with a source p=
refix.

Second, in the solution described above, which would seem to cover most mul=
ti-homing scenarios, the routes exchanged between routers using the IGP do =
not require source addresses to be paired with arbitrary destination prefix=
es.  The simplified form of dest/source routing (only pairing a source pref=
ix with the default destination route) is sufficient for the routing done b=
y the routers.

At this point, I have not seen a PA multi-homing scenario that I believe wo=
uld benefit from using arbitrary dest/source routing.  Instead, I think tha=
t PA multi-homing scenarios can be efficiently addressed by simplified dest=
/source routing.  To be clear, this is not an argument against the mechanis=
m in draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06. Instead, it is an argument agains=
t the mechanism in draft-baker-ipv6-isis-dst-src-routing-04, which specifie=
s a general mechanism for pairing arbitrary destination prefixes with arbit=
rary source prefixes. I think that a simplified mechanism that only pairs s=
ource prefixes with the default destination route in the IGP would work jus=
t as well for PA multi-homing scenarios.

If there is an error in the above analysis or there is a useful PA multi-ho=
ming scenario not covered by the above example, then I look forward to disc=
ussing it.

Thanks,
Chris


From: Fred Baker (fred) [mailto:fred@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 2:47 PM
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses


On Mar 27, 2016, at 9:03 AM, Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net<mailto:cbowe=
rs@juniper.net>> wrote:

Fred,

I would like to better understand the particular use case offered as a coun=
ter-example.  One version of this counter-example is described in Section 2=
.3 of draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cases-01 (Specialized Egress Ro=
uting).  I have copied figure 3 from that draft below.

                                                ,-------.
                                             ,-'         `-.
             ,---.            ,-----.      ,'               `.
            /     \    +-+  ,'       `.   /                   \
           /       +---+R+-+   ISP 1   --+---                  \
          /         \  +-+  `.       ,' ;                       :
         ; Customer  :        `-----'   |       The Internet    |
         | Network   |        ,-----.   :                       ;
         :           ; +-+  ,'       `.  \                     /
          \         +--+R+-+   ISP 2   )  \                   /
           \       /   +-+  `.       ,'    `.               ,'
            \     /           `--+--'        '-.         ,-'
             `---'               |              `-------'
                           Some specialized
                              Service

       Figure 3: Egress Routing with a specialized upstream network


If a customer network homed to ISP1 and ISP2 (with PA prefixes S1 and S2) n=
eeds to reach a destination prefix (D2) associated with a service offered b=
y ISP2, then the customer network can route all traffic with destination ad=
dress in D2 to ISP2 using existing destination-based routing.

Yes, if the packet first goes through a router that is not depicted in the =
diagram (I didn't describe the interior of the customer network, which coul=
d be as simple as a LAN and as complex as you care to imagine). If the only=
 routing is done by the host itself, the packet will go to the router the h=
ost considers to be its default router, which is pretty likely to be the ot=
her router in this example. That is the subject of draft-ietf-6man-multi-ho=
med-host. Note, BTW, that the picture is essentially NTT's BFLETS configura=
tion, with the exception that (as I understand it) the two ISPs are served =
by the same managed router, deployed by NTT and configured to route appropr=
iately.


Therefore, it seems to me that pairing a source prefix with an arbitrary de=
stination prefix is not required to support the Specialized Egress Routing =
use case in draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cases-01. In any case, it=
 would be useful to come to agreement about what is required to address the=
 Specialized Egress Routing use case described in draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst=
-routing-use-cases-01.

I'm happy to discuss that. I think it misses the point, however. If the use=
 case described isn't a good one, let's think of a better use case, perhaps=
 one that doesn't involve a PA prefix from an ISP. Perhaps the biggest issu=
e with your proposal, which was to take all traffic using a given source pr=
efix to an appropriate egress router, is that it precludes the use of the a=
ddress to communicate within the customer network. All traffic would dogleg=
 through the egress router, and I'm not sure I see how packets get from tha=
t router to a point inside without looping. There has to be a way to prefer=
 to destination-address route some traffic and source-address route some ot=
her traffic. The simplest way I can think of is to use both addresses in ev=
ery route lookup, interpreting a traditional destination route as a source/=
destination route from ::/0 to the stated destination, or (if there are mul=
tiple route tables by source prefix) duplicate the destination route table =
in each.

If instead the counter-example use case described below is different from S=
pecialized Egress Routing use case in draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use=
-cases-01, it would be useful to describe that use case in more detail so t=
hat we can evaluate it more thoroughly.

I'll take a look at that. Of course, I can't update the draft until next we=
ek.

Thanks,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Baker (fred) [mailto:fred@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net<mailto:cbowers@juniper.net>>
Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses


> On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Fred Baker (fred) <fred@cisco.com<mailto:fre=
d@cisco.com>> wrote:
>
>
>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net<mailto:cb=
owers@juniper.net>> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that most use cases for ipv6 multi-homing with provider-a=
ssigned addresses only need to route based on source address when the desti=
nation prefix is the default route.  So why not require that source prefixe=
s can only be paired up with the default destination prefix ::/0?
>
> When what one has in mind is an egress route, that probably makes sense. =
However, it precludes an entire class of use cases mentioned in the use cas=
e draft. Why do that?

Let me give you an obvious variant. Imagine, if you will, that I have a PA =
prefix from each of N ISPs, and therefore a default route to each of N ISPs=
. Imagine also that I have a particular prefix that I would like to route t=
hrough via a given one of those N ISPs, in the special case that I happen t=
o have been smart enough to use that source prefix. So now I have N+1 sourc=
e/destination routes - unless you tie it to default routes.

A premature optimization usually breaks things...


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Fred,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I don&#8217;t follow the argument made in the =
previous email against the proposal to use a simplified form of dest/src ro=
uting.&nbsp; The argument seems to assume that the destination
 prefix is completely ignored, which is not the case.&nbsp; With this propo=
sal, a packet is first routed based on longest match for destination prefix=
.&nbsp; The source prefix is only considered when the destination route loo=
kup reaches ::/0.&nbsp; Therefore, communication
 within the customer network works as expected since there will be destinat=
ion prefix matches corresponding to the customer network.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">In order to understand all of the details, I c=
reated an example topology below that I believe covers most of the relevant=
 PA multi-homing scenarios.&nbsp; The customer site
 connects using four different ISPs.&nbsp; ISP1 just offers Internet connec=
tivity.&nbsp; ISP2 just offers a service corresponding to destination addre=
ss B2.&nbsp; ISP3 offers both Internet connectivity and a service correspon=
ding to B3.&nbsp; ISP4 offers internet connectivity
 and a service corresponding to B4.&nbsp; The customer site has a provider-=
assigned subnet from each of the ISPs (A1, A2, A3, and A4).&nbsp; The custo=
mer site has two LANs. &nbsp;LAN-Y (with hosts H21 and H22) is directly con=
nected to R1, R2, and R3.&nbsp; LAN-X (with hosts H31
 and H32) has to go through a routed hop (R7 or R8) to reach R1, R2, or R3.=
&nbsp; The only way for any of the hosts to reach R4 (and ISP4) is through =
R8.&nbsp; The hosts on LAN-X have addresses from a subnet of each of the pr=
ovider assigned block ( subnets A1x, A2x,
 A3x, and A4x), while the hosts on LAN-Y have addresses from a subnet of ea=
ch of the provider assigned block ( subnets A1y, A2y, A3y, and A4y).&nbsp; =
B0 represents a destination address somewhere on the Internet unrelated to =
any of the ISPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----------------<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; LAN-X&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; LAN-Y&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#4=
3;--&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp=
; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;R7&#43;--=
---&#43;---&#43;R1&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISP 1&nbsp;&nbsp; ---&#43;--&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; H31-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 H21-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `---=
--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp; The Internet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; H32-&#43;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43; H22-&#43;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nb=
sp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;R8&#43;--=
---&#43;---&#43;R2&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISP 2&nbsp;&nbsp; )&nbsp; :&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#4=
3;&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;- &#43;&nbsp; `.&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; :--B0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `--&#43;--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; B2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; ,=
'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;R3&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; ISP 3&nbsp;&nbsp; ---&#43;---&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#4=
3;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `--&#43;--'&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;:=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; B3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#4=
3;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; &#43;-----------&#43;R4|-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISP 4&nbsp;&nbsp; ---&#43;---=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&#43;--&#43;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `--&#43;--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; B4&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----------------<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">We consider how H31 and H21 reach various destinations.&nb=
sp; The destinations to consider are B0, B2, B3, B4, H32 and H22.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">First, we look at the information that the rou=
ters distribute among themselves using an IGP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">R1 originates a route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">R2 originates a route for (D=3DB2).<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">R3 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA3) an=
d (D=3DB3).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">R4 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA4) an=
d (D=3DB4).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">R7 and R8 originates routes for (D=3DA1x), (D=
=3DA2x), (D=3DA3x), and (D=3DA4x), and (D=3DA1y), (D=3DA2y), (D=3DA3y), and=
 (D=3DA4y).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Next, we look at the information that the rout=
ers distribute to hosts on the LAN using the Neighbor Discovery protocol.&n=
bsp; From Prefix information Options (PIOs) in Router
 Advertisements, hosts on LAN-X learn that A1x, A2x, A3x, and A4x are on-li=
nk, while hosts on LAN-Y learn that A1y, A2y, A3y, and A4 are on-link.&nbsp=
;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">A router indicates that it acts as a default r=
outer by advertising a non-zero Router Lifetime in a Router Advertisement. =
Or that it doesn&#8217;t act as a default router by
 advertising a Router Lifetime value of zero.&nbsp; A reasonable choice in =
this network would be to have R1 and R3 advertise that they are default rou=
ters on LAN-Y and have R7 and R8 advertise that they are default routers on=
 LAN-X.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">It appears to me that with just the informatio=
n described above (that is, destination routes and simplified dest/source r=
outes distributed among the routers, and the Router
 Advertisements on the LANs indicated default routers),&nbsp; packets from =
H31 and H21 can reach all six destinations, assuming the host uses an accep=
table source address for the given destination.&nbsp; However, the next-hop=
 chosen by the host may not be optimal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">For example, for a packet to get from H21 to H=
32, it may take the path H21-&gt;R1-&gt;R7-&gt;H32, instead of the more dir=
ect path H21-&gt;R7-&gt;H32.&nbsp; However, this situation can be
 improved using existing mechanisms by having R7 advertise Route informatio=
n Options (RIOs) for prefixes A1x, A2x, A3x, and A4x into LAN-Y so that H21=
 can choose R7 as its next-hop to directly reach H32.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 points out=
 an example of a host making a sub-optimal choice of next-hop related to mu=
lti-homing.&nbsp; In the topology above, when H21 sends
 a packet with src in A1y and dest =3D B0, it could choose next-hop R3.&nbs=
p; This would require R3 to forward the packet to R1 based on the fact that=
 R1 originated an IGP route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).&nbsp; draft-ietf-6man-m=
ulti-homed-host-06 proposes to have hosts use the
 PIOs in Router Advertisements to make better choices of next-hops.&nbsp; A=
ssuming that only R1 advertises a PIO for A1y, then H21 can use that inform=
ation to send a packet with src in A1y to R1 as its default next-hop.&nbsp;=
 This seems like a reasonable optimization.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I would like to make two observations about th=
e analysis above.&nbsp; First, the solution proposed in draft-ietf-6man-mul=
ti-homed-host-06 is consistent with the proposed simplified
 form of dest/source routing.&nbsp; draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 onl=
y allows one to choose a default router based on source prefix.&nbsp; It do=
esn&#8217;t provide a way to pair an arbitrary RIO with a source prefix.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Second, in the solution described above, which=
 would seem to cover most multi-homing scenarios, the routes exchanged betw=
een routers using the IGP do not require source
 addresses to be paired with arbitrary destination prefixes.&nbsp; The simp=
lified form of dest/source routing (only pairing a source prefix with the d=
efault destination route) is sufficient for the routing done by the routers=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">At this point, I have not seen a PA multi-homi=
ng scenario that I believe would benefit from using arbitrary dest/source r=
outing.&nbsp; Instead, I think that PA multi-homing
 scenarios can be efficiently addressed by simplified dest/source routing.&=
nbsp; To be clear, this is not an argument against the mechanism in draft-i=
etf-6man-multi-homed-host-06. Instead, it is an argument against the mechan=
ism in draft-baker-ipv6-isis-dst-src-routing-04,
 which specifies a general mechanism for pairing arbitrary destination pref=
ixes with arbitrary source prefixes. I think that a simplified mechanism th=
at only pairs source prefixes with the default destination route in the IGP=
 would work just as well for PA
 multi-homing scenarios.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">If there is an error in the above analysis or =
there is a useful PA multi-homing scenario not covered by the above example=
, then I look forward to discussing it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Thanks,</span><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fred Baker (fred) [mailto:fred=
@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 28, 2016 2:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Bowers &lt;cbowers@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rtgwg@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mar 27, 2016, at 9:03 AM, Chris Bowers &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:cbowers@juniper.net">cbowers@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Fred,</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">I would like to better understand the particular use case =
offered as a counter-example.&nbsp; One version of this counter-example is =
described in Section 2.3 of draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cases-01
 (Specialized Egress Routing).&nbsp; I have copied figure 3 from that draft=
 below.&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;,-------.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;,-'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `-.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,---.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;&nbsp; ,'=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; \</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;R&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; ISP 1&nbsp;&nbsp; --&#43;---&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;&nbsp; `.=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,' ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ; Custome=
r&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `-----'&nbsp;&nbsp; |&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Internet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Network=
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp=
; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ; &#43;-&#43;&nbsp; ,'=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;R&#43;-&#43;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; ISP 2&nbsp;&nbsp; )&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;&nbsp; `.=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `--&#43;--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 '-.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-'</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; `---'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `-------'</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Some specialized</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Service</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 3: Egress Rout=
ing with a specialized upstream network</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">If a customer network homed to ISP1 and ISP2 (with PA pref=
ixes S1 and S2) needs to reach a destination prefix (D2) associated with a =
service offered by ISP2, then the customer network
 can route all traffic with destination address in D2 to ISP2 using existin=
g destination-based routing.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, if the packet first goes through a router that =
is not depicted in the diagram (I didn't describe the interior of the custo=
mer network, which could be as simple as a LAN and as complex as you care t=
o imagine). If the only routing is
 done by the host itself, the packet will go to the router the host conside=
rs to be its default router, which is pretty likely to be the other router =
in this example. That is the subject of&nbsp;draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-ho=
st. Note, BTW, that the picture is essentially
 NTT's BFLETS configuration, with the exception that (as I understand it) t=
he two ISPs are served by the same managed router, deployed by NTT and conf=
igured to route appropriately.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Therefore, it seems to me that pairing a source prefix wit=
h an arbitrary destination prefix is not required to support the Specialize=
d Egress Routing use case in draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cases-01=
.
 In any case, it would be useful to come to agreement about what is require=
d to address the Specialized Egress Routing use case described in draft-bak=
er-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cases-01.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I'm happy to discuss that. I think it misses the po=
int, however. If the use case described isn't a good one, let's think of a =
better use case, perhaps one that doesn't involve
 a PA prefix from an ISP. Perhaps the biggest issue with your proposal, whi=
ch was to take all traffic using a given source prefix to an appropriate eg=
ress router, is that it precludes the use of the address to communicate wit=
hin the customer network. All traffic
 would dogleg through the egress router, and I'm not sure I see how packets=
 get from that router to a point inside without looping. There has to be a =
way to prefer to destination-address route some traffic and source-address =
route some other traffic. The simplest
 way I can think of is to use both addresses in every route lookup, interpr=
eting a traditional destination route as a source/destination route from ::=
/0 to the stated destination, or (if there are multiple route tables by sou=
rce prefix) duplicate the destination
 route table in each.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">If instead the counter-example use case described below is=
 different from Specialized Egress Routing use case in draft-baker-rtgwg-sr=
c-dst-routing-use-cases-01, it would be useful
 to describe that use case in more detail so that we can evaluate it more t=
horoughly.&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">I'll take a look at that. Of course, I can't update the dr=
aft until next week.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Chris</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">-----Original Message-----</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">From: Fred Baker (fred) [</span><a href=3D"mailto:fred@cis=
co.com"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
;color:#954F72">mailto:fred@cisco.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">]</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 11:37 PM</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">To: Chris Bowers &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cbowers@juni=
per.net"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:#954F72">cbowers@juniper.net</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Cc:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></sp=
an><a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#954F72">rtgwg@ietf.org</span></a><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Subject: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addre=
sses</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt; On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Fred Baker (fred) &lt;</=
span><a href=3D"mailto:fred@cisco.com"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#954F72">fred@cisco.com</span></a><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&gt;
 wrote:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt;&gt; On Mar 24, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Chris Bowers &lt;</s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:cbowers@juniper.net"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#954F72">cbowers@juniper.net</spa=
n></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&gt;
 wrote:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt;&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span=
></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,san=
s-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt;&gt; It seems to me that most use cases for ipv6 multi=
-homing with provider-assigned addresses only need to route based on source=
 address when the destination prefix is the default
 route.&nbsp; So why not require that source prefixes can only be paired up=
 with the default destination prefix ::/0?</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&gt; When what one has in mind is an egress route, that pr=
obably makes sense. However, it precludes an entire class of use cases ment=
ioned in the use case draft. Why do that?</span><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Let me give you an obvious variant. Imagine, if you will, =
that I have a PA prefix from each of N ISPs, and therefore a default route =
to each of N ISPs. Imagine also that I have a
 particular prefix that I would like to route through via a given one of th=
ose N ISPs, in the special case that I happen to have been smart enough to =
use that source prefix. So now I have N&#43;1 source/destination routes - u=
nless you tie it to default routes.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">A premature optimization usually breaks things...</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "BIER (bier@ietf.org)" <bier@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>, "rtg-ooam-dt@ietf.org" <rtg-ooam-dt@ietf.org>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Comments to OOAM Requirements draft from Ron Bonica
Thread-Topic: Comments to OOAM Requirements draft from Ron Bonica
Thread-Index: AdGOoAAttrV3Hsn3QLugH0bP01WoGA==
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 20:09:06 +0000
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Dear All,
Ron reviewed the Overlay OAM Requirements<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft=
-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-requirement-00> draft and shared his comments under RB> =
tag. The attached copy has my responses in under GIM> tag as well. We invit=
e members of BIER, NVO3, SCC and RTG WGs to join in the discussion. Appreci=
ate you review, comments on OOAM Requirements draft and OAM for Overlay Net=
works: Gap Analysis.

                Regards,
                                Greg

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ron reviewed the <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-requirement-00">
Overlay OAM Requirements</a> draft and shared his comments under RB&gt; tag=
. The attached copy has my responses in under GIM&gt; tag as well. We invit=
e members of BIER, NVO3, SCC and RTG WGs to join in the discussion. Appreci=
ate you review, comments on OOAM Requirements
 draft and OAM for Overlay Networks: Gap Analysis.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
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From nobody Tue Apr  5 00:12:43 2016
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Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-uloop-delay-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Microloop prevention by introducing a local convergence delay
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Pierre Francois
	Filename        : draft-ietf-rtgwg-uloop-delay-01.txt
	Pages           : 22
	Date            : 2016-04-05

Abstract:
   This document describes a mechanism for link-state routing protocols
   to prevent local transient forwarding loops in case of link failure.
   This mechanism Proposes a two-steps convergence by introducing a
   delay between the convergence of the node adjacent to the topology
   change and the network wide convergence.

   As this mechanism delays the IGP convergence it may only be used for
   planned maintenance or when fast reroute protects the traffic between
   the link failure and the IGP convergence.

   The proposed mechanism will be limited to link down event in order to
   keep simplicity.

   Simulations using real network topologies have been performed and
   show that local loops are a significant portion (>50%) of the total
   forwarding loops.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-uloop-delay/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-uloop-delay-01

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https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtgwg-uloop-delay-01


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From nobody Wed Apr  6 01:20:48 2016
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Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-policy-model-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Routing Policy Configuration Model for Service Provider Networks
        Authors         : Anees Shaikh
                          Rob Shakir
                          Kevin D'Souza
                          Chris Chase
	Filename        : draft-ietf-rtgwg-policy-model-01.txt
	Pages           : 41
	Date            : 2016-04-06

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model for configuring and managing
   routing policies in a vendor-neutral way and based on actual
   operational practice.  The model provides a generic policy framework
   which can be augmented with protocol-specific policy configuration.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-policy-model/

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From nobody Wed Apr  6 19:25:10 2016
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To: cbowers@juniper.net
Subject: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09
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Hi Chris

There maybe some trivial mistakes in the document, please confirm it.

1) in section "5.2.  MRT Island Identification"
see pseudo-code in Figure 16, the second if-statement "if (not 
intf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))" will never meet, the BFS will stop 
abnormally.


2) in section "5.7.5.  Complete Algorithm to Compute MRT Next-Hops"
see pseudo-code in Figure 23, in function 
"SPF_No_Traverse_Block_Root(spf_root, block_root, direction)", 
the code "path_metric = min_node.spf_metric + intf.metric" and the 
following remainder code of this function need to be included in the 
if-statement "if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or". 


3) in section "5.9.4.  Computing MRT Alternates for Proxy-Nodes"
"Similarly, if run Select_Alternates(X, F, primary_intf) and we find that 
it is safe to USE_BLUE to reach Y"
here the first parameter X would be replaced to Y.

thanks
Deccan

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<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi Chris</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">There maybe some trivial mistakes in
the document, please confirm it.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">1) in section &quot;5.2. &nbsp;MRT Island
Identification&quot;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">see pseudo-code in Figure 16, the second
if-statement &quot;if (not intf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))&quot; will
never meet, the BFS will stop abnormally.</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2) in section &quot;5.7.5. &nbsp;Complete
Algorithm to Compute MRT Next-Hops&quot;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">see pseudo-code in Figure 23, in function
&quot;SPF_No_Traverse_Block_Root(spf_root, block_root, direction)&quot;,
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">the code &quot;path_metric = min_node.spf_metric
+ intf.metric&quot; and the following remainder code of this function need
to be included in the if-statement &quot;if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD)
and intf.OUTGOING) or&quot;. </font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">3) in section &quot;5.9.4. &nbsp;Computing
MRT Alternates for Proxy-Nodes&quot;<br>
&quot;Similarly, if run Select_Alternates(X, F, primary_intf) and we find
that it is safe to USE_BLUE to reach Y&quot;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">here the first parameter X would be
replaced to Y.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">thanks</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Deccan</font>
<br>
<br>

<br><pre><font color="blue">
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</font></pre><br>

<br><pre><font color="blue">
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TL;DR:  note at end about "abort as unreachable" as alternative way to
get rid of complicated backtracking.  (Jump to second/last ----- line.)


Hi all,

here is another shot at my somewhat confusing (sorry) in-room comment on
the policy aspect of limiting to D=::/0.

The scenario I'm thinking of is this:

User (let's say, small-to-medium-ish business, for illustration let's
say the internal network has 2-3 OSPF routers or something.)
\- ISP A, assigned PA prefix, internet/default connectivity
\- ISP B, assigned PA prefix, internet/default connectivity

So far so good, we have two D=::/0 routes with different S.

Now, let's say the CEO of the company heard that clouds are great for
putting your calendar and mails into.  She decides ISP A's "Cirrus
Castellanus" product is great because it comes with some great security
and confidentiality bulletpoints.

For the Cirrus Castellanus service, ISP A installs a separate device in
the user's network, which routes a specific prefix for the cloud.  Could
be some encrypted VPN foobar, physical separate line, doesn't really
matter.  Since it's ISP A, they're aware of their PA assignment to the
customer and push a route for that into the cloud product.  The cloud
product could implement BCP 38, but it could also just not have a route
towards the internet - it doesn't need to and it's "secure".

Now, the installation instructions for the product says "this is the
prefix your cloud service has, put a route for it in your domain".

So, now the User's netadmin is essentially screwed since that's a
D!=default S!=default route.  More correct, it's in fact 2 routes:
- D=cloud, S=ISP-A-PA => via installed cloud termination device
- D=cloud, S=::/0 => unreachable
Which goes to represent that the cloud service is only reachable from
ISP-A's PA prefix assigned to the User.

----------
This, I hope, illustrates how this is a significant policy decision to
make.  It's IETF consensus (I hope) that NAT is a bad thing.  It also
seems to be IETF consensus (as discussed in Fred's slides) that PA is
preferable over PI, and we want to keep tables small.  We've received
feedback -the v6ops request- that PA has some issues to be solved.  If
we now say "we're doing D=::/0 only", we're deciding to solve only part
of the problem posed to us.  (see note below about divide&conquer / "do
D!=::/0 separately")

What's the message to operators here?
"get PI space for that setup"?
"you'll need a cooperative ISP for that setup"?
"don't do this setup, it's stupid"?

In any case, any solution that resticts to D=::/0 carries an implication
of:
   "If you're using PA, the only thing you can rely on being able to
    route is the internet as a whole.
If we're making this policy assumption (which is really a decision), we
need to be aware we're making it.

On Divide&Conquer:
splitting this up into a two-part approach resulting in the 3 levels:
- classic router, (D) lookup
- level-1 SADR, (::/0, S) support
- level-2 SADR, (D, S) support
is certainly possible to write down, but complicates the compatibility
mechanisms in the routing protocols since level-1 and level-2 routers
are not compatible to be in the same link-state/SPF topology.

----------
If we still want the backtracking behaviour (going to less specific D
when not finding a S match under a particular D) gone, I'd prefer
looking at specifying "terminate as unreachable" instead of completely
removing D!=::/0 support.  I haven't thought through use-case impact of
this yet, but in any case the backtracking behaviour could be restored
by advertising additional routes to the same effect.

(The same approach of installing additional routes can be used to
eliminate the performance hit of backtracking by consuming more memory /
hardware route resources through installing additional synthetic routes.
I'll add that to the next version of the draft.)


On a closing note, I'll repeat my mic request for feedback:  could
people provide feedback which part of backtracking they're concerned
about?  Specification complexity?  Implementation complexity?
Performance penalities?  Something else?


-David


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To: rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org
From: Pushpasis Sarkar <pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: WGLC for draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
Message-ID: <5706A00C.7090000@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 23:29:40 +0530
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Hi Chairs,

It has been quite a while we have received any more comments on this 
document, and hence the authors feel that the document is in very good 
shape for the WG Last Call.

Request you to take it forward and start the WGLC.

Thanks and Regards,
-Pushpasis


From nobody Thu Apr  7 20:13:49 2016
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To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-psarkar-rtgwg-multihomed-prefix-lfa-03.txt
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Dear All,

This version has been presented today  at RTGWG, IETF-95.
Would request further comments/suggestions.

--
Uma C.


-----Original Message-----
From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:36 AM
To: rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: FW: New Version Notification for draft-psarkar-rtgwg-multihomed-pr=
efix-lfa-03.txt

Dear RtgWG,

This update gets the content from https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chundur=
i-rtgwg-lfa-extended-procedures-03 to make an unified draft for MHP handlin=
g and other procedures related LFA/RFC 5286.

Your comments, suggestions are most welcome.

--
Uma C.
(one behalf of all co-authors)

-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:07 AM
To: Shraddha Hegde; Jeff Tantsura; Pushpasis Sarkar; Hannes Gredler; Chris =
Bowers; Bruno Decraene; Uma Chunduri
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-psarkar-rtgwg-multihomed-prefix=
-lfa-03.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-psarkar-rtgwg-multihomed-prefix-lfa-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Uma Chunduri and posted to the IETF repo=
sitory.

Name:		draft-psarkar-rtgwg-multihomed-prefix-lfa
Revision:	03
Title:		LFA selection for Multi-Homed Prefixes
Document date:	2016-01-19
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		17
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-psarkar-rtgwg-mu=
ltihomed-prefix-lfa-03.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-psarkar-rtgwg-multih=
omed-prefix-lfa/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-psarkar-rtgwg-multihomed-=
prefix-lfa-03
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-psarkar-rtgwg-mul=
tihomed-prefix-lfa-03

Abstract:
   This document shares experience gained from implementing algorithms
   to determine Loop-Free Alternates for multi-homed prefixes.  In
   particular, this document provides explicit inequalities that can be
   used to evaluate neighbors as a potential alternates for multi-homed
   prefixes.  It also provides detailed criteria for evaluating
   potential alternates for external prefixes advertised by OSPF ASBRs.


                                                                           =
      =20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg


From nobody Fri Apr  8 06:12:32 2016
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:12:24 -0300
Subject: rtgwg key chain - empty authentication
To: rtgwg@ietf.org, acee@cisco.com
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As a followup to mic comment on Friday afternoon of IETF 95, we should =
consider an explicit code point for "empty/null" authentication.  This =
covers the cases where authentication fields in protocols need to be =
used, but no mechanism providing authentication is in use.

BFD, however, has an unusual form of this case:
1. We support the *absence* of authentication.
2. We have work to add an explicit authentication code point with no =
authentication, simply to take advantage of some sequencing numbers in =
the authentication field.

-- Jeff


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Subject: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses
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Chris,

> It seems to me that most use cases for ipv6 multi-homing with =
provider-assigned addresses only need to route based on source address =
when the destination prefix is the default route.  So why not require =
that source prefixes can only be paired up with the default destination =
prefix ::/0?  That is, we could require that a router can only route =
based on the source address after the longest match route lookup based =
on destination address has reached ::/0.  That way, a router can still =
route packets local to the site based on destination address.  Only once =
it is clear that the packet is going to the Internet can the router use =
the source address to pick the correct CE router to get there.
>=20
> I see that there was some discussion about this in 2013 on a thread in =
homenet and rtgwg in the context of =
draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cases, and a number of different =
opinions were expressed mainly from the point of view of what is needed =
for homenet.  At this point, RTGWG also needs to consider the impact of =
proposed solutions on routing scalability.  On the surface, this =
simplification would seem to improve the scaling properties of the =
solution in draft-ietf-rtgwg-dst-src-routing, while covering most use =
cases.

That will not work I'm afraid.
ISPs do not only advertise default routes to CPEs (see RFC6204) but also =
more specifics (RFC4191).
The more specifics are typically used for walled garden etc.
These will result in (S,D) routes in the network.

> Regardless of how this discussion turns out, I think the draft itself =
will benefit from more active discussion of the tradeoffs involved.

agreed.

we did a src/dst implementation in VPP (open source software data =
plane).
the results should be up in the proceedings soon, but until then the =
slides are here:
=
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pXJO5vphWFmHAQsrKAgzXYxd-EvMFuxiNY=
DPXmiMCMk/edit#slide=3Did.p

in short, back-tracking is quite painful, and if one implemented this as =
trees of trees, worst case is very bad (128*128). we implemented is a =
bi-hash with 256 bit key.

a better approach might be to do S lookup first, find the D table, and =
do the D lookup. that requires duplication of all D,* routes into every =
D table, but should result in the same behaviour as the D first lookup. =
worst case then would be 128+128.

there are many alternatives that has been proposed over the years.
e.g.: draft-despres-sam, LISP, ILNP, RFC2260

that is build an overlay from every host/first-hop router to the set of =
edges.

the problem in the homenet, and I expect in small businesses as well, is =
that the edge routers are not aware of each other and provided by =
different entities (the ISPs).

when _you_ say scalability, what do you mean? Multi-prefix multi-homing =
is designed to alleviate the problem of global route scaling. Within the =
networks that will do D,S routing, I expect routing tables to be very =
small. E.g. if you were a company of cisco's size, with tens of =
providers, you'd do PI multi-homing.

Cheers,
Ole




>=20
> Thanks,
> Chris
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Bowers
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:14 AM
> To: 'rtgwg@ietf.org' <rtgwg@ietf.org>
> Subject: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses
>=20
> RTGWG,
>=20
> We scheduled a significant amount of time in Buenos Aires for a =
discussion of multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses for =
enterprise networks as well as homenet.  I want to explain the =
motivation for this and provide some background on the topic.  And =
hopefully spark some discussion on the list before Buenos Aires, as =
well.
>=20
> RTGWG adopted draft-ietf-rtgwg-dst-src-routing last October in the =
context of supporting multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses =
in homenet.  In Yokohama, the v6ops WG had a lengthy discussion about =
the need for a solution to support multi-homing for provider-assigned =
IPv6 addresses for enterprise networks in general (as opposed to just =
homenet).  This discussion took place in the context of =
draft-ietf-v6ops-design-choices.  That discussion can be found at:
>=20
> https://youtu.be/VzH7yqqGiGc?t=3D5835
>=20
> This discussion led to the email (copied below) from Fred Baker in his =
role as v6ops co-chair to the chairs of several working groups in which =
drafts related to this topic are being discussed.
>=20
> Our meeting in Buenos Aires includes a 20 minute time slot to discuss =
the background and motivation of this request from v6ops.  The topic of =
multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses has a long history =
with many documents written, so I thought it would be useful to =
highlight a few of the more recent documents that I found to be =
particularly useful reading.
>=20
> RFC 7157 "IPv6 Multihoming without Network Address Translation"
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7157/
>=20
> draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 "Routing packets from hosts in a =
multi-prefix network"
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host/
>=20
> In addition, it would obviously be useful read or re-read the RTGWG =
document on this topic:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-dst-src-routing/
>=20
> There following expired document is also helpful.
> =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-case=
s-01.txt
>=20
> And finally, this document is useful to understand a concrete proposal =
for how src/dst routing information could be carried in a link-state =
routing protocol.
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baker-ipv6-isis-dst-src-routing/
>=20
> I look forward to a fruitful discussion on this topic on the list and =
in Buenos Aires.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Chris
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Baker (fred) [mailto:fred@cisco.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 11:03 PM
> To: isis-ads@tools.ietf.org; rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org; =
isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ospf-chairs@tools.ietf.org; 6man Chairs =
<6man-chairs@tools.ietf.org>; homenet-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Cc: v6ops@ietf.org WG <v6ops@ietf.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
> Subject: PA Address Multihoming in IPv6
>=20
> This email is being sent in accordance with the v6ops charter, which =
calls for the working group to communicate operational issues and =
requirements to working groups that are chartered to address them.
>=20
> The IETF's current primary recommendation for multihoming of midrange =
enterprise networks - those that cannot justify the costs and overheads =
of a PI address and in fact multihome - is to obtain a =
provider-allocated prefix from each of their upstream networks, and =
deploy a /64 out of each on each LAN in their networks.
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4213
> 4213 Basic Transition Mechanisms for IPv6 Hosts and Routers. E. =
Nordmark,
>     R. Gilligan. October 2005. (Format: TXT=3D58575 bytes) (Obsoletes
>     RFC2893) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC4213)
>=20
> This has a number of issues, not the least of which is in the back end =
OSS software, which needs to now scale to a much larger number of =
prefixes, handle multiple addresses in DNS for servers and perhaps =
clients, resolve reverse DNS queries, and so on. It also is obviously =
carrying that much more information in routing.
>=20
> One outcome of v6ops' discussions this morning was that PI multihoming =
demonstrably works, but PA multihoming when the upstreams implement BCP =
38 filtering requires the deployment of some form of egress routing - =
source/destination routing in which the traffic using a stated PA source =
prefix and directed to a remote destination is routed to the provider =
that allocated the prefix. The IETF currently has no such =
recommendation, or consensus that it should have. However, enterprise =
networks are known to delaying operational deployment of IPv6 in part =
due to the complexities visited upon them and the cost of the back end =
software upgrades, and this is part of that issue.
>=20
> Without trying to limit the options available to the working groups in =
question, I'll point out that options currently on the table include the =
following. There are also current open source implementations of =
source/destination and source-specific routing in IS-IS, OSPFv3, and =
Babel.
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baker-ipv6-isis-dst-src-routing
>  "IPv6 Source/Destination Routing using IS-IS", Fred Baker, David
>  Lamparter, 2015-10-19
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boutier-babel-source-specific
>  "Source-Specific Routing in Babel", Matthieu Boutier, Juliusz
>  Chroboczek, 2015-05-27
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host
>  "Routing packets from hosts in a multi-prefix network", Fred Baker,
>  Brian Carpenter, 2015-10-15
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend
>  "OSPFv3 LSA Extendibility", Acee Lindem, Sina Mirtorabi, Abhay Roy, =
Fred
>  Baker, 2015-10-08
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-dst-src-routing
>  "Destination/Source Routing", David Lamparter, 2015-10-17,
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-overview
>  "Source Address Dependent Routing and Source Address Selection for =
IPv6
>  Hosts: Problem Space Overview", Behcet Sarikaya, Mohamed Boucadair,
>  2015-08-17
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra
>  "IPv6 RA Option for Source Address Dependent Routing", Behcet =
Sarikaya,
>  2015-06-08
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sarikaya-dhc-6man-dhcpv6-sadr
>  "DHCPv6 Solution for Source Address Dependent Routing", Behcet =
Sarikaya,
>  2015-05-08
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-ospf-multi-homing-ipv6
>  "Extending OSPFv3 to Support Multi-homing", Mingwei Xu, Shu Yang,
>  Jianping Wu, Fred Baker, 2015-10-11,
>=20
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cas=
es
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> rtgwg mailing list
> rtgwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg


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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
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David,

I've responded to two of the points raised / questions asked below.  Feel f=
ree to break these responses into separate threads or to resend any of the =
points/questions as separate threads as well. =20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Thanks for the example of the ISP-provided cloud device.  I think that I am=
 starting to better understand one of the sources of disagreement on this t=
opic.  If one assumes that a host can magically choose the correct source a=
ddress for a packet, then I think even this example can be handled with def=
ault-only SADR.  However,  if we also want to use SADR to distribute inform=
ation to the hosts to allow them to choose the correct source address to pu=
t on the packet in the first place, then I agree that default-only SADR wil=
l not work.  If this is the case, then I think we need to be more explicit =
about how we expect the host to get information about the correct source ad=
dress to select.

This is my best understanding at this point about how this could work.  Ple=
ase correct me if I am wrong.

Using the example below, for a host (H55) which is a few router hops away f=
rom the ISP A's cloud device, we want to put the route for (D=3Dcloud, S=3D=
ISP-A-PA) into the IGP.  This IGP advertisement is received by a router (R5=
0) on the same LAN as H55.  I assume that R55 would use Neighbor Discovery =
Router Advertisements to communicate information about  (D=3Dcloud, S=3DISP=
-A-PA) to H55.  I don't think that PIO and RIO in ND Router Advertisements =
currently have the semantics to advertise associate arbitrary source and de=
stination prefixes, so I think that ND Router Advertisements would need to =
be extended.  This is basically what draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 is prop=
osing. =20

I think that different participants in this discussion may have different i=
deas about how this should be done.  The homenet architecture principles do=
cument (RFC 7368) and draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 both point to RFC=
 6724 as providing a solution for source address selection with multi-homin=
g, but both documents also seem to acknowledge that RFC 6724 doesn't provid=
e a complete answer.  In the discussion in RTGWG on Thursday, Fred Baker sa=
id that thinks a Happy Eyeballs RFC 6555 should play a roll as well.  There=
 was also a mention of having the host use ICMP to detect failures.

I think we need to be very explicit about our assumptions about how the hos=
t is going to select the source address, especially if we expect the host t=
o use dest/source route information.   This is also consistent with Alvaro =
Retana's more general request in RTGWG that we consider a complete solution=
 to the PA multi-homing problem, as opposed to just considering individual =
pieces of a potential solution in isolation.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Responding to a another question below, I can clarify my concerns about the=
 scalability and implementation of dest/source routing that allows pairing =
of arbitrary destination and source prefixes. Dest/source routing has been =
proposed as a solution for several different problems or use cases.  So I'l=
l state my concerns for each use case.

1) PA multi-homing for homenet - I don't have much concern regarding scalab=
ility and implementation for PA multi-homing for homenet. This is not my ar=
ea of expertise, but I would expect most forwarding implementations for hom=
enet to be software based.  So it seems like existing equipment should be a=
ble to deal with new forwarding requirements, possibly with some performanc=
e penalty.=20

2) PA multi-homing for mid-size enterprise networks - My main concern with =
PA multi-homing for mid-size enterprises is that existing routers deployed =
in these networks will not be able to support forwarding based on pairing o=
f arbitrary destination and source prefixes.  In mid-size enterprise networ=
ks, I would imagine that there is a broad range of existing deployed equipm=
ent, some of which may have forwarding hardware that cannot be modified to =
support arbitrary dest/source route lookups on packets.  I think it is like=
ly that more deployed equipment would be able to be upgraded via software t=
o support a more simplified form of dest/source routing.=20

3) Dest/source routing in IGPs as a general tool for service provider infra=
structure routing - One example of this kind of use case can be found in dr=
aft-baker-rtgwg-src-dst-routing-use-cases-01 under " Intra-domain access co=
ntrol".  Slide 4 of https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-rt=
gwg-9.pdf also discusses some uses in CERNET2 of dest/source routing in OSP=
F (draft-xu-ospf-multi-homing-ipv6-00).  These use cases are very different=
 from PA multi-homing.  My main concern here is that there are existing sta=
ndardized and deployed solutions addressing these use cases.  That doesn't =
mean that the IETF can't standardize another solution to the same problem, =
but I think there is generally a higher bar with respect to demonstrating t=
he need for another solution, and analyzing the costs and benefits relative=
 to existing solutions.

4) Dest/source routing in BGP - draft-xu-src-dst-bgp-00 proposes extending =
dest/source routing to BGP with arbitrary matching of destination and sourc=
e prefixes.  The draft doesn't discuss the use cases, but on the surface, i=
t seems like some uses of this could result in a significant increase in ro=
utes in the global internet. =20

Thanks,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: David Lamparter [mailto:equinox@diac24.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 11:55 AM
To: rtgwg@ietf.org
Cc: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>; Fred Baker (fred) <fred@cisco.com>;=
 Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>
Subject: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provi=
der-assigned IPv6 addresses)

TL;DR:  note at end about "abort as unreachable" as alternative way to get =
rid of complicated backtracking.  (Jump to second/last ----- line.)


Hi all,

here is another shot at my somewhat confusing (sorry) in-room comment on th=
e policy aspect of limiting to D=3D::/0.

The scenario I'm thinking of is this:

User (let's say, small-to-medium-ish business, for illustration let's say t=
he internal network has 2-3 OSPF routers or something.)
\- ISP A, assigned PA prefix, internet/default connectivity
\- ISP B, assigned PA prefix, internet/default connectivity

So far so good, we have two D=3D::/0 routes with different S.

Now, let's say the CEO of the company heard that clouds are great for putti=
ng your calendar and mails into.  She decides ISP A's "Cirrus Castellanus" =
product is great because it comes with some great security and confidential=
ity bulletpoints.

For the Cirrus Castellanus service, ISP A installs a separate device in the=
 user's network, which routes a specific prefix for the cloud.  Could be so=
me encrypted VPN foobar, physical separate line, doesn't really matter.  Si=
nce it's ISP A, they're aware of their PA assignment to the customer and pu=
sh a route for that into the cloud product.  The cloud product could implem=
ent BCP 38, but it could also just not have a route towards the internet - =
it doesn't need to and it's "secure".

Now, the installation instructions for the product says "this is the prefix=
 your cloud service has, put a route for it in your domain".

So, now the User's netadmin is essentially screwed since that's a D!=3Ddefa=
ult S!=3Ddefault route.  More correct, it's in fact 2 routes:
- D=3Dcloud, S=3DISP-A-PA =3D> via installed cloud termination device
- D=3Dcloud, S=3D::/0 =3D> unreachable
Which goes to represent that the cloud service is only reachable from ISP-A=
's PA prefix assigned to the User.

----------
This, I hope, illustrates how this is a significant policy decision to make=
.  It's IETF consensus (I hope) that NAT is a bad thing.  It also seems to =
be IETF consensus (as discussed in Fred's slides) that PA is preferable ove=
r PI, and we want to keep tables small.  We've received feedback -the v6ops=
 request- that PA has some issues to be solved.  If we now say "we're doing=
 D=3D::/0 only", we're deciding to solve only part of the problem posed to =
us.  (see note below about divide&conquer / "do
D!=3D::/0 separately")

What's the message to operators here?
"get PI space for that setup"?
"you'll need a cooperative ISP for that setup"?
"don't do this setup, it's stupid"?

In any case, any solution that resticts to D=3D::/0 carries an implication
of:
   "If you're using PA, the only thing you can rely on being able to
    route is the internet as a whole.
If we're making this policy assumption (which is really a decision), we nee=
d to be aware we're making it.

On Divide&Conquer:
splitting this up into a two-part approach resulting in the 3 levels:
- classic router, (D) lookup
- level-1 SADR, (::/0, S) support
- level-2 SADR, (D, S) support
is certainly possible to write down, but complicates the compatibility mech=
anisms in the routing protocols since level-1 and level-2 routers are not c=
ompatible to be in the same link-state/SPF topology.

----------
If we still want the backtracking behaviour (going to less specific D when =
not finding a S match under a particular D) gone, I'd prefer looking at spe=
cifying "terminate as unreachable" instead of completely removing D!=3D::/0=
 support.  I haven't thought through use-case impact of this yet, but in an=
y case the backtracking behaviour could be restored by advertising addition=
al routes to the same effect.

(The same approach of installing additional routes can be used to eliminate=
 the performance hit of backtracking by consuming more memory / hardware ro=
ute resources through installing additional synthetic routes.
I'll add that to the next version of the draft.)


On a closing note, I'll repeat my mic request for feedback:  could people p=
rovide feedback which part of backtracking they're concerned about?  Specif=
ication complexity?  Implementation complexity?
Performance penalities?  Something else?


-David


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Chris,

> I think that different participants in this discussion may have =
different ideas about how this should be done.  The homenet architecture =
principles document (RFC 7368) and draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 =
both point to RFC 6724 as providing a solution for source address =
selection with multi-homing, but both documents also seem to acknowledge =
that RFC 6724 doesn't provide a complete answer.  In the discussion in =
RTGWG on Thursday, Fred Baker said that thinks a Happy Eyeballs RFC 6555 =
should play a roll as well.  There was also a mention of having the host =
use ICMP to detect failures.
>=20
> I think we need to be very explicit about our assumptions about how =
the host is going to select the source address, especially if we expect =
the host to use dest/source route information. This is also consistent =
with Alvaro Retana's more general request in RTGWG that we consider a =
complete solution to the PA multi-homing problem, as opposed to just =
considering individual pieces of a potential solution in isolation.

OK, so you asked for it. ;-)

Let me try to quickly outline all the assumptions here.

In a multi-prefix multi-homed case a host has one or more IPv6 addresses =
from more than one IPv6 prefix.

 - The host assumes that by picking source address it also chooses the =
exit in the network.
    In the case where a host is directly connected to two independent =
exit routers, see below 6man draft for next-hop selection.
   This assumption implies that the network is capable of SADR.

 - To achieve the goals set out in RFC3582, the burden of multi-homing =
is squarely put on the shoulders of the host.
   It must be capable of picking the best path, load-share across =
multiple paths, detect failures and switch over to a
   functioning path etc...
   That requires either very smart applications, like MOSH. Or it =
requires improved transport, like MPTCP or perhaps SCTP.

   Initial path selection, is either use them all (like MPTCP), or throw =
spaghetti on the wall and pick the ones that stick.
   It is expected that the host maintains some heuristics over time, so =
it doesn't necessarily have to try Sn*Dn combinations for each =
connection. RFC6724 gives you the "cheap" version of this by falling =
back to 'topologically closest' S,D.

- As you can see the assumptions put on the routing layer is pretty =
trivial compared to what the host has to do.

- Plan B is ILNP or resort to 3rd party multi-home proxies like what =
LISP can do.

General considerations:
 RFC7157 - IPv6 Multihoming without Network Address Translation

Host source address selection:
 RFC6724 - Default Address Selection for Internet Protocol Version 6 =
(IPv6)
 RFC7078 - Distributing Address Selection Policy Using DHCPv6
 RFC6731 - Improved Recursive DNS Server Selection for Multi-Interfaced =
Nodes

Host next-hop selection:
  draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 - Routing packets from hosts in a =
multi-prefix network

Carrying edge specific meta information with prefixes, aka provisioning =
domains:
 RFC7556 - Multiple Provisioning Domain Architecture

Best regards,
Ole

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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>
Subject: RE: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
Thread-Topic: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
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Ole,

Do you think that Neighbor Discovery needs to be extended to support the ad=
vertisement of (S,D) routes?

Currently ND Router Advertisements allow the advertisement of source prefix=
es in PIOs and destination prefixes in RIOs, but I don't see any existing m=
echanism to associate a particular source prefix with a particular destinat=
ion prefix.  draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 offers one way to associate a s=
ource prefix with a destination prefix in Router Advertisements.

If not, what mechanism do you think should be used to communicate (S,D) rou=
tes to the host?

Thanks,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: otroan@employees.org [mailto:otroan@employees.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 2:02 AM
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
Cc: David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net>; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for p=
rovider-assigned IPv6 addresses)

Chris,

> I think that different participants in this discussion may have different=
 ideas about how this should be done.  The homenet architecture principles =
document (RFC 7368) and draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 both point to R=
FC 6724 as providing a solution for source address selection with multi-hom=
ing, but both documents also seem to acknowledge that RFC 6724 doesn't prov=
ide a complete answer.  In the discussion in RTGWG on Thursday, Fred Baker =
said that thinks a Happy Eyeballs RFC 6555 should play a roll as well.  The=
re was also a mention of having the host use ICMP to detect failures.
>=20
> I think we need to be very explicit about our assumptions about how the h=
ost is going to select the source address, especially if we expect the host=
 to use dest/source route information. This is also consistent with Alvaro =
Retana's more general request in RTGWG that we consider a complete solution=
 to the PA multi-homing problem, as opposed to just considering individual =
pieces of a potential solution in isolation.

OK, so you asked for it. ;-)

Let me try to quickly outline all the assumptions here.

In a multi-prefix multi-homed case a host has one or more IPv6 addresses fr=
om more than one IPv6 prefix.

 - The host assumes that by picking source address it also chooses the exit=
 in the network.
    In the case where a host is directly connected to two independent exit =
routers, see below 6man draft for next-hop selection.
   This assumption implies that the network is capable of SADR.

 - To achieve the goals set out in RFC3582, the burden of multi-homing is s=
quarely put on the shoulders of the host.
   It must be capable of picking the best path, load-share across multiple =
paths, detect failures and switch over to a
   functioning path etc...
   That requires either very smart applications, like MOSH. Or it requires =
improved transport, like MPTCP or perhaps SCTP.

   Initial path selection, is either use them all (like MPTCP), or throw sp=
aghetti on the wall and pick the ones that stick.
   It is expected that the host maintains some heuristics over time, so it =
doesn't necessarily have to try Sn*Dn combinations for each connection. RFC=
6724 gives you the "cheap" version of this by falling back to 'topologicall=
y closest' S,D.

- As you can see the assumptions put on the routing layer is pretty trivial=
 compared to what the host has to do.

- Plan B is ILNP or resort to 3rd party multi-home proxies like what LISP c=
an do.

General considerations:
 RFC7157 - IPv6 Multihoming without Network Address Translation

Host source address selection:
 RFC6724 - Default Address Selection for Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)
 RFC7078 - Distributing Address Selection Policy Using DHCPv6
 RFC6731 - Improved Recursive DNS Server Selection for Multi-Interfaced Nod=
es

Host next-hop selection:
  draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host-06 - Routing packets from hosts in a mul=
ti-prefix network

Carrying edge specific meta information with prefixes, aka provisioning dom=
ains:
 RFC7556 - Multiple Provisioning Domain Architecture

Best regards,
Ole


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Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
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Chris,

> Do you think that Neighbor Discovery needs to be extended to support =
the advertisement of (S,D) routes?

No, I'm hoping we can avoid that.

> Currently ND Router Advertisements allow the advertisement of source =
prefixes in PIOs and destination prefixes in RIOs, but I don't see any =
existing mechanism to associate a particular source prefix with a =
particular destination prefix.  draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 offers =
one way to associate a source prefix with a destination prefix in Router =
Advertisements.
>=20
> If not, what mechanism do you think should be used to communicate =
(S,D) routes to the host?

In the general case explicit S,D routes to hosts are not needed.

There are two cases, first when a host is connected to two uncoordinated =
routers (e.g. ISP A, ISP B), in that case =
draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host clarifies that a host should associate =
source prefix with the default from router discovery. I.e. an implicit =
instead of explicit S,D route.

In the case, e.g. homenet it is assumed that all routers are part of the =
same IGP, and if host picks 'wrong' router, the only consequence is an =
extra hop.

If a host really really wants to participate in routing, it can of =
course run a routing protocol.

Do you see anything missing?

Best regards,
Ole

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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>
Subject: RE: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
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Ole,

Consider the topology below.  See https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg=
wg/current/msg05472.html for a more detailed description of the topology.  =
For H31 to send a packet to destination B3, H31 must choose a source addres=
s from within subnet A3x.
                                             -----------------
   LAN-X        LAN-Y          ,-----.      /                 \
          +--+         +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
       +--+R7+-----+---+R1+-+   ISP 1   ---+--                 :
       |  +--+     |   +--+  `.       ,'   :                   :
   H31-+       H21-+           `-----'     :   The Internet    :
       |           |           ,-----.     :                   :
   H32-+  +--+ H22-+   +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
       +--+R8+-----+---+R2+-+   ISP 2   )  :                   :
          ++-+     |   +- +  `.       ,'   :                   :--B0
           |       |           `--+--'     :                   :
           |       |              |        :                   :
           |       |              B2       :                   :
           |       |                       :                   :
           |       |           ,-----.     :                   :
           |       |   +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
           |       +---+R3+-+   ISP 3   ---+---                :
           |           +--+  `.       ,'   :                   :
           |                   `--+--'     :                   :
           |                      |        :                   :
           |                      B3       :                   :
           |                               :                   :
           |                   ,-----.     :                   :
           |           +--+  ,'       `.   :                   :
           +-----------+R4|-+   ISP 4   ---+---                :
                       +--+  `.       ,'   :                   :
                               `--+--'     :                   :
                                  |         \                 /
                                  B4         -----------------

For this example, we assume that the R1-R4 originate the following (D,S) ro=
utes in the IGP.
R1 originates a route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).
R2 originates a route for (D=3DB2, S=3DA2).
R3 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA3) and (D=3DB3, S=3DA3).
R4 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA4) and (D=3DB4, S=3DA4).

R7 and R8 receive these routes via the IGP.  With the existing mechanisms i=
n Neighbor Discovery Router Advertisements, R7 and R8 can advertise the fol=
lowing PIOs and RIOs.
PIOs =3D A4x, A2x, A1x, A3x
RIOs =3D B2, B3, B4, B1

I have intentionally changed the order of the prefixes in the set of PIOs a=
nd RIOs to emphasize that there is no required ordering or relationship bet=
ween prefixes in PIOs and RIOs.

With only this information, I do not see how H31 can correctly choose a sou=
rce address in A3x when it needs to send a packet with destination address =
B3. If this analysis is correct, then it seems like a mechanism like draft-=
sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 is needed.

Thanks,
Chris





-----Original Message-----
From: otroan@employees.org [mailto:otroan@employees.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 12:25 PM
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
Cc: David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net>; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for p=
rovider-assigned IPv6 addresses)



Chris,



> Do you think that Neighbor Discovery needs to be extended to support the =
advertisement of (S,D) routes?



No, I'm hoping we can avoid that.



> Currently ND Router Advertisements allow the advertisement of source pref=
ixes in PIOs and destination prefixes in RIOs, but I don't see any existing=
 mechanism to associate a particular source prefix with a particular destin=
ation prefix.  draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 offers one way to associate a=
 source prefix with a destination prefix in Router Advertisements.

>

> If not, what mechanism do you think should be used to communicate (S,D) r=
outes to the host?



In the general case explicit S,D routes to hosts are not needed.



There are two cases, first when a host is connected to two uncoordinated ro=
uters (e.g. ISP A, ISP B), in that case draft-ietf-6man-multi-homed-host cl=
arifies that a host should associate source prefix with the default from ro=
uter discovery. I.e. an implicit instead of explicit S,D route.



In the case, e.g. homenet it is assumed that all routers are part of the sa=
me IGP, and if host picks 'wrong' router, the only consequence is an extra =
hop.



If a host really really wants to participate in routing, it can of course r=
un a routing protocol.



Do you see anything missing?



Best regards,

Ole

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ole,&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Consider the topology below.&nbsp; See <a href=3D"ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05472.html">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
il-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05472.html</span></a> for a more detailed d=
escription of the topology.&nbsp; For H31 to send a packet to destination B=
3, H31 must choose a source address from within subnet
 A3x. &nbsp;&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----------------<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; LAN-X&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LAN-Y&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;:=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;R7&#43;-----&#43;---&#43;R=
1&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISP 1&nbsp;&nbsp; ---&#43;--&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; H31-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; H21-&#43;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `-----'&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp; The Internet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp; H32-&#43;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43; H22-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43=
;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;R8&#43;-----&#43;---&#43;R=
2&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISP 2&nbsp;&nbsp; )&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;&#43;-&#43;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;- &#43;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :--B0<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; `--&#43;--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; B2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;R3&#43;-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISP 3&nbsp;&=
nbsp; ---&#43;---&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `--&#43;--'&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; B3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,-----.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `.&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---------=
--&#43;R4|-&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISP 4&nbsp;&nbsp; ---&#43;---&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43;&nbsp=
; `.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ,'&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; `--&#43;--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; B4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For this example, we assume that the R1-R4 originate=
 the following (D,S) routes in the IGP.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">R1 originates a route fo=
r (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">R2 originates a route fo=
r (D=3DB2, S=3DA2).</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">R3 originates routes for=
 (D=3D::/0, S=3DA3) and (D=3DB3, S=3DA3).</span><span style=3D"font-size:12=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">R4 originates routes for=
 (D=3D::/0, S=3DA4) and (D=3DB4, S=3DA4).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">R7 and R8 receive these =
routes via the IGP.&nbsp; With the existing mechanisms in Neighbor Discover=
y Router Advertisements, R7 and R8 can advertise the following PIOs and RIO=
s.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">PIOs =3D A4x, A2x, A1x, =
A3x<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">RIOs =3D B2, B3, B4, B1<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I have intentionally cha=
nged the order of the prefixes in the set of PIOs and RIOs to emphasize tha=
t there is no required ordering or relationship between prefixes in PIOs an=
d RIOs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">With only this informati=
on, I do not see how H31 can correctly choose a source address in A3x when =
it needs to send a packet with destination address B3. If this analysis is =
correct, then it seems like a mechanism
 like draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 is needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Chris<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: otroan@employees.org [mailto:otroan@employees.org] <br>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 12:25 PM<br>
To: Chris Bowers &lt;cbowers@juniper.net&gt;<br>
Cc: David Lamparter &lt;equinox@diac24.net&gt;; rtgwg@ietf.org<br>
Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for p=
rovider-assigned IPv6 addresses)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Chris,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Do you think that Neighbor Discovery needs t=
o be extended to support the advertisement of (S,D) routes?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">No, I'm hoping we can avoid that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Currently ND Router Advertisements allow the=
 advertisement of source prefixes in PIOs and destination prefixes in RIOs,=
 but I don't see any existing mechanism to associate a particular source pr=
efix with a particular destination prefix.&nbsp;
 draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 offers one way to associate a source prefix=
 with a destination prefix in Router Advertisements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If not, what mechanism do you think should b=
e used to communicate (S,D) routes to the host?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">In the general case explicit S,D routes to hosts =
are not needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">There are two cases, first when a host is connect=
ed to two uncoordinated routers (e.g. ISP A, ISP B), in that case draft-iet=
f-6man-multi-homed-host clarifies that a host should associate source prefi=
x with the default from router discovery.
 I.e. an implicit instead of explicit S,D route.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">In the case, e.g. homenet it is assumed that all =
routers are part of the same IGP, and if host picks 'wrong' router, the onl=
y consequence is an extra hop.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">If a host really really wants to participate in r=
outing, it can of course run a routing protocol.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Do you see anything missing?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Ole<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Chris,

> Consider the topology below.  See =
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05472.html for a =
more detailed description of the topology.  For H31 to send a packet to =
destination B3, H31 must choose a source address from within subnet A3x.

[very nice ASCII art ruined by my stupid MUA]

> For this example, we assume that the R1-R4 originate the following =
(D,S) routes in the IGP.
> R1 originates a route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).
> R2 originates a route for (D=3DB2, S=3DA2).
> R3 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA3) and (D=3DB3, S=3DA3).
> R4 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA4) and (D=3DB4, S=3DA4).
>=20
> R7 and R8 receive these routes via the IGP.  With the existing =
mechanisms in Neighbor Discovery Router Advertisements, R7 and R8 can =
advertise the following PIOs and RIOs.
> PIOs =3D A4x, A2x, A1x, A3x
> RIOs =3D B2, B3, B4, B1
>=20
> I have intentionally changed the order of the prefixes in the set of =
PIOs and RIOs to emphasize that there is no required ordering or =
relationship between prefixes in PIOs and RIOs.
>=20
> With only this information, I do not see how H31 can correctly choose =
a source address in A3x when it needs to send a packet with destination =
address B3. If this analysis is correct, then it seems like a mechanism =
like draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 is needed.

I take it B1, B2, B3 and B4 are walled gardens.

What I think you are suggesting is that the host could use a S,D FIB for =
source address selection. At least type D hosts could. =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra-01

RFC7078 is meant to solve this case though.

Best regards,
Ole

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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>
Subject: RE: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
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Ole,

So here is my summary of the situation.

1) If DHCPv6 with extensions in RFC7078 is used to help the host to select =
the correct source address, then we could handle even walled garden use cas=
es with default-only SADR.  See details for how this works in http://www.ie=
tf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05472.html .  Another assumption w=
ould be that DHCP relay could be used so we wouldn't need the (D!=3D::/0 , =
S) routes in to reach R7 and R8. =20

2) However, if we don't use DHCPv6 with RFC7078 for host source address sel=
ection, then Neighbor Discover Router Advertisements need to be extended us=
ing a new mechanism like draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 or draft-pfister-6m=
an-sadr-ra-01.  In this case, default-only SADR is not sufficient to suppor=
t walled gardens because we are relying on the (D!=3D::/0 , S) routes to be=
 carried in the IGP so that R7 and R8 can then put the (D!=3D::/0 , S) info=
rmation into the new ND Router Advertisements. =20

Is this more or less accurate?

Thanks,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: otroan@employees.org [mailto:otroan@employees.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 2:37 PM
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
Cc: David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net>; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for p=
rovider-assigned IPv6 addresses)

Chris,

> Consider the topology below.  See https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/r=
tgwg/current/msg05472.html for a more detailed description of the topology.=
  For H31 to send a packet to destination B3, H31 must choose a source addr=
ess from within subnet A3x.

[very nice ASCII art ruined by my stupid MUA]

> For this example, we assume that the R1-R4 originate the following (D,S) =
routes in the IGP.
> R1 originates a route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).
> R2 originates a route for (D=3DB2, S=3DA2).
> R3 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA3) and (D=3DB3, S=3DA3).
> R4 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA4) and (D=3DB4, S=3DA4).
>=20
> R7 and R8 receive these routes via the IGP.  With the existing mechanisms=
 in Neighbor Discovery Router Advertisements, R7 and R8 can advertise the f=
ollowing PIOs and RIOs.
> PIOs =3D A4x, A2x, A1x, A3x
> RIOs =3D B2, B3, B4, B1
>=20
> I have intentionally changed the order of the prefixes in the set of PIOs=
 and RIOs to emphasize that there is no required ordering or relationship b=
etween prefixes in PIOs and RIOs.
>=20
> With only this information, I do not see how H31 can correctly choose a s=
ource address in A3x when it needs to send a packet with destination addres=
s B3. If this analysis is correct, then it seems like a mechanism like draf=
t-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 is needed.

I take it B1, B2, B3 and B4 are walled gardens.

What I think you are suggesting is that the host could use a S,D FIB for so=
urce address selection. At least type D hosts could. https://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra-01

RFC7078 is meant to solve this case though.

Best regards,
Ole


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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:57:09 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net>
Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
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On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 04:55:06PM +0200, David Lamparter wrote:
> Now, the installation instructions for the product says "this is the
> prefix your cloud service has, put a route for it in your domain".
> 
> So, now the User's netadmin is essentially screwed since that's a
> D!=default S!=default route.  More correct, it's in fact 2 routes:
> - D=cloud, S=ISP-A-PA => via installed cloud termination device
> - D=cloud, S=::/0 => unreachable
> Which goes to represent that the cloud service is only reachable from
> ISP-A's PA prefix assigned to the User.

And it's not too far away from cases where private (e.g. RFC 1918) type
addresses are only reachable or differently reachable via a given provider;
e.g. company VPN.

The general presumption for default is "you can reach the whole of the
Internet".  There's lots of circumstances where IP space really isn't "the
whole of the Internet".  While some of these issues can be addressed by
having the host just try access via its available networks, many of them
probably shouldn't be done this way.

-- Jeff


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From: "Nitish Gupta (nitisgup)" <nitisgup@cisco.com>
To: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>, "Aditya Dogra (addogra)" <addogra@cisco.com>, Colin Docherty <colin@doch.org.uk>, "Greg Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-03.txt
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-03.txt
Thread-Index: AQHRlZR6orPig6ufBEO11re3i3Mt8Z+IncoA
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:58:02 +0000
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Hi All,

We have submitted the new version of the draft. In this version we have
just updated just the version to avoid Expiration.
We would take care of the comments in few weeks and update another version
with comments taken care.
We apologize that we have not been able to incorporate the comments in
time given by the working group members.

Thanks,
Nitish



On 13/04/16 8:25 pm, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
wrote:

>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-03.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Nitish Gupta and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:		draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd
>Revision:	03
>Title:		Fast failure detection in VRRP with BFD
>Document date:	2016-04-13
>Group:		Individual Submission
>Pages:		10
>URL:           =20
>https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-03.txt
>Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd/
>Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-03
>Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-nitish-vrrp-bfd-=
03
>
>Abstract:
>   This document describes how Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
>   can be used to support sub-second detection of a Master Router
>   failure in the Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol (VRRP).
>
>                 =20
>       =20
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>


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Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
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Chris,

> So here is my summary of the situation.
>=20
> 1) If DHCPv6 with extensions in RFC7078 is used to help the host to =
select the correct source address, then we could handle even walled =
garden use cases with default-only SADR.  See details for how this works =
in http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05472.html .  =
Another assumption would be that DHCP relay could be used so we wouldn't =
need the (D!=3D::/0 , S) routes in to reach R7 and R8.
>=20
> 2) However, if we don't use DHCPv6 with RFC7078 for host source =
address selection, then Neighbor Discover Router Advertisements need to =
be extended using a new mechanism like draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 or =
draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra-01.  In this case, default-only SADR is not =
sufficient to support walled gardens because we are relying on the =
(D!=3D::/0 , S) routes to be carried in the IGP so that R7 and R8 can =
then put the (D!=3D::/0 , S) information into the new ND Router =
Advertisements.
>=20
> Is this more or less accurate?

Yes, that's reasonably accurate. Although of course not the full picture =
since we have decades of innovation in this space.
- You also have ICMPv6 Destination Unreachable, Source address failed =
ingress/egress policy that could be used as a trigger by the host to try =
a different source, independent of what the network signals.
- Or MP-TCP which presumably would also try some subset of all =
combinations.
- Or draft-baker-happier-eyeballs-00 which throws spaghetti on the wall =
to see what sticks.

Cheers,
Ole


> -----Original Message-----
> From: otroan@employees.org [mailto:otroan@employees.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 2:37 PM
> To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
> Cc: David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net>; rtgwg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Implications of default-only SADR (was: Re: multi-homing =
for provider-assigned IPv6 addresses)
>=20
> Chris,
>=20
>> Consider the topology below.  See =
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05472.html for a =
more detailed description of the topology.  For H31 to send a packet to =
destination B3, H31 must choose a source address from within subnet A3x.
>=20
> [very nice ASCII art ruined by my stupid MUA]
>=20
>> For this example, we assume that the R1-R4 originate the following =
(D,S) routes in the IGP.
>> R1 originates a route for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA1).
>> R2 originates a route for (D=3DB2, S=3DA2).
>> R3 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA3) and (D=3DB3, S=3DA3).
>> R4 originates routes for (D=3D::/0, S=3DA4) and (D=3DB4, S=3DA4).
>>=20
>> R7 and R8 receive these routes via the IGP.  With the existing =
mechanisms in Neighbor Discovery Router Advertisements, R7 and R8 can =
advertise the following PIOs and RIOs.
>> PIOs =3D A4x, A2x, A1x, A3x
>> RIOs =3D B2, B3, B4, B1
>>=20
>> I have intentionally changed the order of the prefixes in the set of =
PIOs and RIOs to emphasize that there is no required ordering or =
relationship between prefixes in PIOs and RIOs.
>>=20
>> With only this information, I do not see how H31 can correctly choose =
a source address in A3x when it needs to send a packet with destination =
address B3. If this analysis is correct, then it seems like a mechanism =
like draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-03 is needed.
>=20
> I take it B1, B2, B3 and B4 are walled gardens.
>=20
> What I think you are suggesting is that the host could use a S,D FIB =
for source address selection. At least type D hosts could. =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra-01
>=20
> RFC7078 is meant to solve this case though.
>=20
> Best regards,
> Ole


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, "Martin Bjorklund" <mbj@tail-f.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>, Routing WG <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:25:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:43:35 -0700
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References: <20160329.212556.1290892363387952983.mbj@tail-f.com> <3D60808E-EB76-4BE9-8281-B91B4FD83527@juniper.net> <021201d191b1$757fbe40$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <F2009F5B-0462-43F6-8A4F-D19A518A159E@juniper.net> <D33A8D1A.5B403%acee@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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--Apple-Mail=_B5E4D987-640A-4655-8AAD-2815A63063A8
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> On Apr 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> I did get some negative feedback with respect to adding =E2=80=9Crouting=
-=E2=80=9C to the
> model name since key chains are used for other non-routing =
applications as
> well.=20

One of those non-routing protocols is BFD. I am fine if the model is =
called protocol-key-chain, but I wonder what happens the next entity =
needing key-chain is not a protocol.

The bigger question in my mind is, are these really different types of =
key-chains models, or are we talking about one key-chain model?

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




--Apple-Mail=_B5E4D987-640A-4655-8AAD-2815A63063A8
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Apr 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">I did get some negative feedback with respect to =
adding =E2=80=9Crouting-=E2=80=9C to the</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">model name since key chains are used for other =
non-routing applications as</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">well.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></div></blockquote><br=
 class=3D""></div><div>One of those non-routing protocols is BFD. I am =
fine if the model is called protocol-key-chain, but I wonder what =
happens the next entity needing key-chain is not a =
protocol.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The bigger question in my =
mind is, are these really different types of key-chains models, or are =
we talking about one key-chain model?</div><br class=3D""><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Mahesh Jethanandani</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_B5E4D987-640A-4655-8AAD-2815A63063A8--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
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References: <20160329.212556.1290892363387952983.mbj@tail-f.com> <3D60808E-EB76-4BE9-8281-B91B4FD83527@juniper.net> <021201d191b1$757fbe40$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <F2009F5B-0462-43F6-8A4F-D19A518A159E@juniper.net> <D33A8D1A.5B403%acee@cisco.com> <64FFAE09-4DF0-4D87-ADCF-2A319DB4F684@gmail.com>
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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
Subject: RE: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09
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Deccan,

Thanks for the feedback.

See inline below with [CB].

Chris

From: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn [mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 9:25 PM
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09

Hi Chris

There maybe some trivial mistakes in the document, please confirm it.

1) in section "5.2.  MRT Island Identification"
see pseudo-code in Figure 16, the second if-statement "if (not intf.remote_=
node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))" will never meet, the BFS will stop abnormally.
[CB] I think the issue might be convention we are using in the pseudocode o=
f using the indentation to indicate the scope of if, for, and while stateme=
nts.  We could have chosen to use more explicit scoping like endif, endfor,=
 and endwhile. For this discussion, I rewrote the while loop in figure 16 b=
elow using this more explicit scoping.
     while (explore_list is not empty)
        next_rtr =3D remove_head(explore_list)
        for each intf in next_rtr
           if (not intf.MRT-ineligible
              and not intf.remote_intf.MRT-ineligible
              and not intf.IGP-excluded and (intf in area)
              and (intf.remote_node supports profile_id) )
              intf.IN_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE
              intf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE
              if (not intf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))
                 intf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE
                 add_to_tail(explore_list, intf.remote_node)
              endif
           endif
        endfor
      endwhile
Written in this form, it is easier to see that we are using the last if-sta=
tement to avoid adding to the explore_list any nodes that have already been=
 marked as being in the MRT Island, and are already in the explore_list.  I=
f we don't do this, I think the algorithm will not terminate in some topolo=
gies.  Did I understand your point correctly?  If not, can you clarify more=
?

2) in section "5.7.5.  Complete Algorithm to Compute MRT Next-Hops"
see pseudo-code in Figure 23, in function "SPF_No_Traverse_Block_Root(spf_r=
oot, block_root, direction)",
the code "path_metric =3D min_node.spf_metric + intf.metric" and the follow=
ing remainder code of this function need to be included in the if-statement=
 "if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or".
[CB]  Thanks for catching this error.  This is a case where using the inden=
tation to indicate scope made this error less obvious.  I will change the i=
ndentation of "if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) etc" to co=
rrect this.  Do the text below now convey the correct meaning?
   while (spf_heap is not empty)
       min_node =3D remove_lowest(spf_heap)
       Store_Results(min_node, direction)
       if ((min_node is spf_root) or (min_node is not block_root))
          foreach interface intf of min_node
             if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or
                  ((direction is REVERSE) and intf.INCOMING) )
                  and In_Common_Block(spf_root, intf.remote_node) )
                path_metric =3D min_node.spf_metric + intf.metric
                if path_metric < intf.remote_node.spf_metric
                   intf.remote_node.spf_metric =3D path_metric
                   if min_node is spf_root
                     intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D make_list(intf)
                   else
                     intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D min_node.next_hops
                   insert_or_update(spf_heap, intf.remote_node)
                else if path_metric =3D=3D intf.remote_node.spf_metric
                   if min_node is spf_root
                      add_to_list(intf.remote_node.next_hops, intf)
                   else
                      add_list_to_list(intf.remote_node.next_hops,
                                       min_node.next_hops)

3) in section "5.9.4.  Computing MRT Alternates for Proxy-Nodes"
"Similarly, if run Select_Alternates(X, F, primary_intf) and we find that i=
t is safe to USE_BLUE to reach Y"
here the first parameter X would be replaced to Y.
[CB]  Thanks. We will correct this as well.


thanks
Deccan




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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Deccan,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks for the feedback.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">See inline below with [CB].<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn [mailto=
:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 06, 2016 9:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Bowers &lt;cbowers@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rtgwg@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Chris</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">T=
here maybe some trivial mistakes in the document, please confirm it.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">1=
) in section &quot;5.2. &nbsp;MRT Island Identification&quot;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">s=
ee pseudo-code in Figure 16, the second if-statement &quot;if (not intf.rem=
ote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))&quot; will never meet, the BFS will stop abnormall=
y.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
1F497D">[CB] I think the issue might be convention we are using in the pseu=
docode of using the indentation to indicate the scope of if, for, and while=
 statements.&nbsp; We could have chosen to use more
 explicit scoping like endif, endfor, and endwhile. For this discussion, I =
rewrote the while loop in figure 16 below using this more explicit scoping.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; while (explore_list is not empty)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; next_rtr =3D remove_head(explore_list)<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for each intf in next_rtr<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if (not intf.MRT-ineligible=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and not i=
ntf.remote_intf.MRT-ineligible<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and not i=
ntf.IGP-excluded and (intf in area)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and (intf=
.remote_node supports profile_id) )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; intf.IN_M=
RT_ISLAND =3D TRUE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; intf.remo=
te_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if (not i=
ntf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; intf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; add_to_tail(explore_list, intf.remote_node)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; endif<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; endif<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; endfor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; endwhile<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">Written in th=
is form, it is easier to see that we are using the last if-statement to avo=
id adding to the explore_list any nodes that have
 already been marked as being in the MRT Island, and are already in the exp=
lore_list.&nbsp; If we don&#8217;t do this, I think the algorithm will not =
terminate in some topologies.&nbsp; Did I understand your point correctly?&=
nbsp; If not, can you clarify more?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;"><br>
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">2=
) in section &quot;5.7.5. &nbsp;Complete Algorithm to Compute MRT Next-Hops=
&quot;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">s=
ee pseudo-code in Figure 23, in function &quot;SPF_No_Traverse_Block_Root(s=
pf_root, block_root, direction)&quot;,
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">t=
he code &quot;path_metric =3D min_node.spf_metric &#43; intf.metric&quot; a=
nd the following remainder code of this function need to be included in the=
 if-statement &quot;if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING)
 or&quot;. </span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">[CB]&nbsp; Th=
anks for catching this error. &nbsp;This is a case where using the indentat=
ion to indicate scope made this error less obvious.&nbsp; I will
 change the indentation of &#8220;if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.O=
UTGOING) etc&#8221; to correct this.&nbsp; Do the text below now convey the=
 correct meaning?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
while (spf_heap is not empty)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; min_node =3D remove_lowest(spf_heap)<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Store_Results(min_node, direction)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if ((min_node is spf_root) or (min_node is not bloc=
k_root))<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; foreach interface intf of min_nod=
e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if ( ( ((direct=
ion is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ((direction is REVERSE) and intf.INCOMING) )<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; and In_Common_Block(spf_root, intf.remote_node) )<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; path_metric =3D min_node.spf_metric &#43; intf.metric<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; if path_metric &lt; intf.remote_node.spf_metric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; intf.remote_node.spf_metric =3D path_metric<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if min_node is spf_root<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D make_list(i=
ntf)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; else<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D min_node.ne=
xt_hops<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; insert_or_update(spf_heap, intf.remote_node)<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; else if path_metric =3D=3D intf.remote_node.spf_metric<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if min_node is spf_root<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; add_to_list(intf.remote_node.next_ho=
ps, intf)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; else<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; add_list_to_list(intf.remote_node.ne=
xt_hops,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; min_node.=
next_hops)</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">3=
) in section &quot;5.9.4. &nbsp;Computing MRT Alternates for Proxy-Nodes&qu=
ot;<br>
&quot;Similarly, if run Select_Alternates(X, F, primary_intf) and we find t=
hat it is safe to USE_BLUE to reach Y&quot;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">h=
ere the first parameter X would be replaced to Y.</span>
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D">[CB]&nbsp; Th=
anks. We will correct this as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">t=
hanks</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">D=
eccan</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">-------------------------------------------=
-------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">ZTE Information Security Notice: The inform=
ation contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is p=
rivileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the add=
ressee(s).&nbsp; If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, repr=
oduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information con=
tained is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have received this mail in erro=
r, please delete it and notify us immediately.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">-------------------------------------------=
-------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">ZTE Information Security Notice: The inform=
ation contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is p=
rivileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the add=
ressee(s).&nbsp; If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, repr=
oduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information con=
tained is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have received this mail in erro=
r, please delete it and notify us immediately.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 00:40:05 -0700
Subject: change of affiliation 
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Dear RTGWG,

I have decided to leave Ericsson and would like to notify you about the cha=
nge.
I=E2=80=99ll update you with my new affiliation after I have decided what it is g=
oing to be.

Thanks,
Jeff=20


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iv><div><br></div><div>I have decided to leave Ericsson and would like to no=
tify you about the change.</div><div>I&#8217;ll update you with my new affil=
iation after I have decided what it is going to be.</div><div><br></div><div=
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--B_3544044006_1329692402--



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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 00:42:15 -0700
Subject: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: <rtgwg@ietf.org>
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Dear RTGWG,
 
The authors of draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection have told us that the
draft is ready for working group last call (WGLC).
 
Before we do the WGLC we want to do an IPR poll on the document.
 
This mail starts that IPR poll.
 
Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection?
 
If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
 
Currently there are two IPR disclosures on draft-psarkar-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
(which was the pre-working group version of draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection):
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2334/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2346/

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and contributor.
 
If you are on the RTGWG email list but are not listed as an author or
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
 
Thanks, 
Jeff and Chris


--B_3544044135_1320144618
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div><div><div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily: -webkit-standard;"><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear=
 RTGWG,</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div><div=
 style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The authors of draft-ietf-rtgwg-r=
lfa-node-protection have told us that the</div><div style=3D"font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif;">draft is ready for working group last call (WGLC).</div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily: Calibri, sans-serif;">Before we do the WGLC we want to do an IPR poll =
on the document.</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<=
/div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">This mail starts that IP=
R poll.</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div><div=
 style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Are you aware of any IPR that app=
lies to draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection?</div><div style=3D"font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif;">If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules</=
div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 366=
9 and 5378 for more details).</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif;">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Currently t=
here are two IPR disclosures on draft-psarkar-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection</di=
v><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(which was the pre-working =
group version of draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection):</div><div><font fac=
e=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2334">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2334</a>/</font></div><div><font face=3D"Calibri,s=
ans-serif"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2346">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/ipr/2346</a>/</font></div><div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><=
br></font></div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If you are li=
sted as a document author or contributor please respond to</div><div style=3D"=
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">this email regardless of whether or not y=
ou are aware of any relevant</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-ser=
if;">IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The</=
div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">document will not advance=
 to the next stage until a response has been</div><div style=3D"font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif;">received from each author and contributor.</div><div st=
yle=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif;">If you are on the RTGWG email list but are not listed=
 as an author or</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">contrib=
utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any</div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">IPR that has not yet been disclose=
d in conformance with IETF rules.</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, san=
s-serif;">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks,=
&nbsp;</div></div><div>Jeff and Chris</div></div><div><div id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_S=
IGNATURE"></div></div></div></div></body></html>

--B_3544044135_1320144618--



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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 02:01:54 -0700
Subject: Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Pushpasis Sarkar <pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com>, <mpls@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <A4C3F7C8-10A0-4E4E-ABED-4CC9B400A34B@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
References: <896EBEE8-E1D5-461B-9AD0-044BFE20F846@gmail.com> <5718966E.6000807@gmail.com>
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Thanks Pushpasis, including RTGWG. 

From:  Pushpasis Sarkar <pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com>
Date:  Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 1:59 AM
To:  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject:  Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection

    
 Hi Jeff,
 
 Many many thanks for starting the WGLC call. 
 
 FYI, I am not aware of any IPR other than the one already disclosed (by Juniper and Cisco).
 
 Thanks and Regards,
 -Pushpasis
 
 
On Thursday 21 April 2016 01:12 PM, Jeff Tantsura wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dear RTGWG,
 
 
 
The authors of draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection have told us that the
 
draft is ready for working group last call (WGLC).
 
 
 
Before we do the WGLC we want to do an IPR poll on the document.
 
 
 
This mail starts that IPR poll.
 
 
 
Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection?
 
 
 
If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
 
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
 
 
 
Currently there are two IPR disclosures on draft-psarkar-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
 
(which was the pre-working group version of draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection):
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2334/
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2346/
 

 
 
If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
 
this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
 
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The
 
document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
 
received from each author and contributor.
 
 
 
If you are on the RTGWG email list but are not listed as an author or
 
contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
 
IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
 
 
 
Thanks, 
 
 
Jeff and Chris
 
 
 
 
  
 
_______________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
 
 
 


--B_3544048915_1918849520
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div><div><font face=3D"Calibri,=
sans-serif">Thanks Pushpasis,&nbsp;including RTGWG.&nbsp;</font></div><div s=
tyle=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px=
;"><div id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE"></div></div></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(=
0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><spa=
n id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:1=
2pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: =
medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BOR=
DER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> Pushpasis Sarkar &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com">pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=
=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 1:59 AM<br><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:je=
fftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subje=
ct: </span> Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection<br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>
  
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" http-equiv=3D"Content-Typ=
e">
  
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    Hi Jeff,<br>
    <br>
    Many many thanks for starting the WGLC call. <br>
    <br>
    FYI, I am not aware of any IPR other than the one already disclosed
    (by Juniper and Cisco).<br>
    <br>
    Thanks and Regards,<br>
    -Pushpasis<br>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 21 April 2016 01:12 PM,
      Jeff Tantsura wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite=3D"mid:896EBEE8-E1D5-461B-9AD0-044BFE20F846@gmail.com" t=
ype=3D"cite">
      <div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div style=3D"font-family: -webkit-standard;">
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear RTGWG,</d=
iv>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The authors
                of draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection have told us
                that the</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">draft is
                ready for working group last call (WGLC).</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Before we
                do the WGLC we want to do an IPR poll on the document.</div=
>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">This mail
                starts that IPR poll.</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Are you
                aware of any IPR that applies to
                draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection?</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If so, has
                this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR
                rules</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(see RFCs
                3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Currently
                there are two IPR disclosures on
                draft-psarkar-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(which was
                the pre-working group version of
                draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection):</div>
              <div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true=
" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2334"></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2334">https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/ipr/2334</a>/</font></div>
              <div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true=
" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2346"></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2346">https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/ipr/2346</a>/</font></div>
              <div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
                </font></div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If you are
                listed as a document author or contributor please
                respond to</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">this email
                regardless of whether or not you are aware of any
                relevant</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">IPR. *The
                response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.*
                The</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">document
                will not advance to the next stage until a response has
                been</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">received
                from each author and contributor.</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If you are
                on the RTGWG email list but are not listed as an author
                or</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">contributor,
                then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
                any</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">IPR that
                has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF
                rules.</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div>
              <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks,&nbsp;<=
/div>
            </div>
            <div>Jeff and Chris</div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org">rtgwg@ietf=
.org</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/=
listinfo/rtgwg">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></span></body></html>

--B_3544048915_1918849520--



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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
Thread-Topic: WGLC on draft-ietf-rtgwg-rlfa-node-protection
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Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:29:54 +0000
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From nobody Thu Apr 21 14:42:28 2016
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From: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>
To: "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
Subject: RE: RE: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Deccan,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">With respe=
ct to the pseudo-code for MRT_Island_Identification(), I understand what yo=
u are saying.&nbsp; In fact, the existing Python code
 has the line<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">intf.remote_intf.IN_MRT_ISLAND =
=3D True<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">instead of:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">intf.remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND =
=3D True<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">so I will =
change the pseudocode to match.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">From what =
I can tell, the additional if-condition
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>&quot;not intf.IN_MRT_ISLAND&quot;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">is not absolutely required=
 for correctness, but it is more efficient and clearer, so I will update bo=
th the pseudo-code and the Python code.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I am still=
 looking into your question about section 5.6 and the topological sort.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks for=
 pointing out these issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#004080"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Chris<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn [mailto=
:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Bowers &lt;cbowers@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rtgwg@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&q=
uot;,sans-serif">: RE: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Chris</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">T=
hanks for the detailed reply.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">S=
ee inline below with [Deccan]</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">D=
eccan<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"40%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:40.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Chris Bowers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cbowers@juniper.=
net">cbowers@juniper.net</a>&gt;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"=
>2016-04-21 05:04</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"59%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:59.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn">peng.s=
haofu@zte.com.cn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn">pe=
ng.shaofu@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org">rtgwg@ietf.org=
</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org">rtgwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;</sp=
an>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif">RE: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-=
09</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">Deccan,
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">Thanks for the feedback.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">See inline below with [CB].</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">Chris</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn">peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn</a> [</spa=
n><a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn<=
/span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,s=
ans-serif">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 06, 2016 9:25 PM<b><br>
To:</b> Chris Bowers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cbowers@juniper.net">cbowers@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;<b><br>
Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org">rtgwg@ietf.org</a><b><br>
Subject:</b> some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09</span> <b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;</span>=
 <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">H=
i Chris</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"=
>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
There maybe some trivial mistakes in the document, please confirm it.</span=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
1) in section &quot;5.2. &nbsp;MRT Island Identification&quot;</span><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
see pseudo-code in Figure 16, the second if-statement &quot;if (not intf.re=
mote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))&quot; will never meet, the BFS will stop abnormal=
ly.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:#004080"><br>
[CB] I think the issue might be convention we are using in the pseudocode o=
f using the indentation to indicate the scope of if, for, and while stateme=
nts. &nbsp;We could have chosen to use more explicit scoping like endif, en=
dfor, and endwhile. For this discussion,
 I rewrote the while loop in figure 16 below using this more explicit scopi=
ng.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;while (explore_list is not empty)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; next_rtr =3D remove_head(explore_list)<=
/span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for each intf in next_rtr</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;if (not intf.MRT-ineligibl=
e &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>[Deccan] it is necessary to add &quot;not intf.IN_MRT_ISLAND&quot;, as the=
 same reason you described.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and not intf.remot=
e_intf.MRT-ineligible</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and not intf.IGP-e=
xcluded and (intf in area)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and (intf.remote_n=
ode supports profile_id) )</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; intf.IN_MRT_ISLAND=
 =3D TRUE</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; intf.remote_node.I=
N_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Deccan] so, here the &qu=
ot;intf.remote_<b>node</b>&quot; need to be changed
 to &quot;intf.remote_<b>intf</b>&quot; </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; if (not intf.remot=
e_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;intf.=
remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;add_t=
o_tail(explore_list, intf.remote_node)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; endif</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;endif</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; endfor</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; endwhile</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">Written in this form, it is easier to see that we are using the las=
t if-statement to avoid adding to the explore_list any nodes that have alre=
ady been marked as being in the MRT Island,
 and are already in the explore_list. &nbsp;If we don=A1=AFt do this, I thi=
nk the algorithm will not terminate in some topologies. &nbsp;Did I underst=
and your point correctly? &nbsp;If not, can you clarify more?</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">[=
Deccan] &nbsp;According to your meaning that if I understand correctly, I p=
ut the suggestion directly on the above pseudo-code, please see it.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><=
br>
2) in section &quot;5.7.5. &nbsp;Complete Algorithm to Compute MRT Next-Hop=
s&quot;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"=
>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
see pseudo-code in Figure 23, in function &quot;SPF_No_Traverse_Block_Root(=
spf_root, block_root, direction)&quot;,
<br>
the code &quot;path_metric =3D min_node.spf_metric &#43; intf.metric&quot; =
and the following remainder code of this function need to be included in th=
e if-statement &quot;if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or&q=
uot;.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">[CB] &nbsp;Thanks for catching this error. &nbsp;This is a case whe=
re using the indentation to indicate scope made this error less obvious. &n=
bsp;I will change the indentation of =A1=B0if ( ( ((direction is
 FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) etc=A1=B1 to correct this. &nbsp;Do the text b=
elow now convey the correct meaning?</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp;while (spf_heap is not empty)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;min_node =3D remove_lowest(spf_heap)</sp=
an>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Store_Results(min_node, direction)</span=
>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;if ((min_node is spf_root) or (min_node =
is not block_root))</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; foreach interface intf of min_no=
de</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;if ( ( ((direction =
is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ((di=
rection is REVERSE) and intf.INCOMING) )</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and =
In_Common_Block(spf_root, intf.remote_node) )</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; path_metric=
 =3D min_node.spf_metric &#43; intf.metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; if path_met=
ric &lt; intf.remote_node.spf_metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;intf.remote_node.spf_metric =3D path_metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;if min_node is spf_root</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp;intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D make_list(intf)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;else</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp;intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D min_node.next_hops</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;insert_or_update(spf_heap, intf.remote_node)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; else if pat=
h_metric =3D=3D intf.remote_node.spf_metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;if min_node is spf_root</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; add_to_list(intf.remote_node.next_hops, intf)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;else</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; add_list_to_list(intf.remote_node.next_hops,</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;min=
_node.next_hops)</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif"><br>
[Deccan] yes.</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><=
br>
3) in section &quot;5.9.4. &nbsp;Computing MRT Alternates for Proxy-Nodes&q=
uot;<br>
&quot;Similarly, if run Select_Alternates(X, F, primary_intf) and we find t=
hat it is safe to USE_BLUE to reach Y&quot;</span><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
here the first parameter X would be replaced to Y.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">[CB] &nbsp;Thanks. We will correct this as well.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
[Deccan] &nbsp;There maybe another issue in section &quot;5.6. &nbsp;Augmen=
ting the GADAG by directing all links&quot;. In function &quot;Run_Topologi=
cal_Sort_GADAG(topo, gadag_root)&quot;, because we only first add gadag_roo=
t to working_list, but not all other cut-vertexes, it is possible
 that some blocks have no chance to get Topological_Sort. For example, see =
Figure 10 (a), the block 3 which contains K, L, M, N, O, P will totally hav=
e no chance to &nbsp;get Topological_Sort. &nbsp;To be specific, since the =
cut-vertex K's all incoming interface have
 be removed temporarily, note that cut-link H-K is set to bidirectional bef=
ore Run_Topological_Sort_GADAG, K has no chance to be visited based on the =
VISIT_ACTION originated from GADAG root. Although in this example all links=
 in block3 have already be directed,
 we can get another example with a complicated block that will need Topolog=
ical_Sort to set undirected links. Please see if it is so.</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">-------------------------------------------=
-------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">ZTE Information Security Notice: The inform=
ation contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is p=
rivileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the add=
ressee(s).&nbsp; If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, repr=
oduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information con=
tained is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have received this mail in erro=
r, please delete it and notify us immediately.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif">Deccan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif">Responding to this question:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif">[Deccan] &nbsp;There maybe another issue in section &quot;5.6. &n=
bsp;Augmenting the GADAG by directing all links&quot;. In function &quot;Ru=
n_Topological_Sort_GADAG(topo, gadag_root)&quot;, because we only first add
 gadag_root to working_list, but not all other cut-vertexes, it is possible=
 that some blocks have no chance to get Topological_Sort. For example, see =
Figure 10 (a), the block 3 which contains K, L, M, N, O, P will totally hav=
e no chance to &nbsp;get Topological_Sort.
 &nbsp;To be specific, since the cut-vertex K's all incoming interface have=
 be removed temporarily, note that cut-link H-K is set to bidirectional bef=
ore Run_Topological_Sort_GADAG, K has no chance to be visited based on the =
VISIT_ACTION originated from GADAG root.
 Although in this example all links in block3 have already be directed, we =
can get another example with a complicated block that will need Topological=
_Sort to set undirected links. Please see if it is so.</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I think th=
e key to understanding why the current pseudo-code and Python code works is=
 the following sentence:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">=A1=B0</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-=
fareast-language:EN-US">To convert a GADAG to a DAG, it is necessary
 to remove all links that point to a root of block from within that block.=
=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In figure =
10a, for block 4 containing H and K, H is the block root (since R is the GA=
DAG root).&nbsp; So we need Modify_Block_Root_Incoming_Links()
 to temporarily remove the link INCOMING to H from K.&nbsp; That still leav=
es the link OUTGOING from H to K unmodified.&nbsp;&nbsp; The OUTGOING direc=
tion is not modified because K is not the root of block 4 (even though it i=
s the root of block 3).&nbsp; The OUTGOING link from
 H to K is how Run_Topological_Sort_GADAG() will reach K and the rest of bl=
ock 3.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Modify_Block_Root_Incoming_L=
inks() only makes the direction from K to H temporarily unusable, because o=
f the condition:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-US">if i.remote_node.localroot is x<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">H is the localroot of K, but=
 K is NOT the localroot of H.&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">You might =
also try stepping through the basic_topo example in mrt_lowpoint_draft_text=
.py:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href=3D=
"https://github.com/cbowers/draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm/tree/master/=
src">https://github.com/cbowers/draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm/tree/mas=
ter/src</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">You can in=
sert print statements to see what is happening, which is what I did to look=
 at the behavior of the code to answer this question.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It is poss=
ible that there is another topology that breaks this, so it would help to g=
ive me a specific topology that doesn=A1=AFt work if
 you find one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Chris<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn [mailto=
:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Bowers &lt;cbowers@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rtgwg@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&q=
uot;,sans-serif">: RE: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Chris</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">T=
hanks for the detailed reply.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">S=
ee inline below with [Deccan]</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">D=
eccan<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"40%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:40.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Chris Bowers &lt;</span></b><a href=3D"mailto:cbowe=
rs@juniper.net"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,sans-serif">cbowers@juniper.net</span></b></a><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;</span></b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"=
>2016-04-21 05:04</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"59%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:59.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif">&quot;</span><a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn"=
><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">p=
eng.shaofu@zte.com.cn</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">&quot;
 &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn<=
/span></a><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif">&gt;,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif">&quot;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">rtgwg@iet=
f.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,sans-serif">&quot;
 &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">rtgwg@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;</sp=
an>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif">RE: some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-=
09</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">Deccan,
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">Thanks for the feedback.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">See inline below with [CB].</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">Chris</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,sans-serif">
</span><a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn</s=
pan></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,san=
s-serif"> [</span><a href=3D"mailto:peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:peng.sh=
aofu@zte.com.cn</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 06, 2016 9:25 PM<b><br>
To:</b> Chris Bowers &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cbowers@juniper.net"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">cbo=
wers@juniper.net</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;<b><br>
Cc:</b> </span><a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">rtgwg@ietf.org</span></a>=
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if"><br>
Subject:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,sans-serif"> some issues in draft-ietf-rtgwg-mrt-frr-algorithm-09</=
span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;</span>=
 <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">H=
i Chris</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"=
>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
There maybe some trivial mistakes in the document, please confirm it.</span=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
1) in section &quot;5.2. &nbsp;MRT Island Identification&quot;</span><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
see pseudo-code in Figure 16, the second if-statement &quot;if (not intf.re=
mote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))&quot; will never meet, the BFS will stop abnormal=
ly.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:#004080"><br>
[CB] I think the issue might be convention we are using in the pseudocode o=
f using the indentation to indicate the scope of if, for, and while stateme=
nts. &nbsp;We could have chosen to use more explicit scoping like endif, en=
dfor, and endwhile. For this discussion,
 I rewrote the while loop in figure 16 below using this more explicit scopi=
ng.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;while (explore_list is not empty)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; next_rtr =3D remove_head(explore_list)<=
/span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for each intf in next_rtr</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;if (not intf.MRT-ineligibl=
e &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>[Deccan] it is necessary to add &quot;not intf.IN_MRT_ISLAND&quot;, as the=
 same reason you described.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and not intf.remot=
e_intf.MRT-ineligible</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and not intf.IGP-e=
xcluded and (intf in area)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and (intf.remote_n=
ode supports profile_id) )</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; intf.IN_MRT_ISLAND=
 =3D TRUE</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; intf.remote_node.I=
N_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Deccan] so, here the &qu=
ot;intf.remote_<b>node</b>&quot; need to be changed
 to &quot;intf.remote_<b>intf</b>&quot; </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; if (not intf.remot=
e_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND))</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;intf.=
remote_node.IN_MRT_ISLAND =3D TRUE</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;add_t=
o_tail(explore_list, intf.remote_node)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; endif</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;endif</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; endfor</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; endwhile</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">Written in this form, it is easier to see that we are using the las=
t if-statement to avoid adding to the explore_list any nodes that have alre=
ady been marked as being in the MRT Island,
 and are already in the explore_list. &nbsp;If we don=A1=AFt do this, I thi=
nk the algorithm will not terminate in some topologies. &nbsp;Did I underst=
and your point correctly? &nbsp;If not, can you clarify more?</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">[=
Deccan] &nbsp;According to your meaning that if I understand correctly, I p=
ut the suggestion directly on the above pseudo-code, please see it.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><=
br>
2) in section &quot;5.7.5. &nbsp;Complete Algorithm to Compute MRT Next-Hop=
s&quot;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"=
>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
see pseudo-code in Figure 23, in function &quot;SPF_No_Traverse_Block_Root(=
spf_root, block_root, direction)&quot;,
<br>
the code &quot;path_metric =3D min_node.spf_metric &#43; intf.metric&quot; =
and the following remainder code of this function need to be included in th=
e if-statement &quot;if ( ( ((direction is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or&q=
uot;.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">[CB] &nbsp;Thanks for catching this error. &nbsp;This is a case whe=
re using the indentation to indicate scope made this error less obvious. &n=
bsp;I will change the indentation of =A1=B0if ( ( ((direction is
 FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) etc=A1=B1 to correct this. &nbsp;Do the text b=
elow now convey the correct meaning?</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp;while (spf_heap is not empty)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;min_node =3D remove_lowest(spf_heap)</sp=
an>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Store_Results(min_node, direction)</span=
>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;if ((min_node is spf_root) or (min_node =
is not block_root))</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; foreach interface intf of min_no=
de</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;if ( ( ((direction =
is FORWARD) and intf.OUTGOING) or</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ((di=
rection is REVERSE) and intf.INCOMING) )</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and =
In_Common_Block(spf_root, intf.remote_node) )</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; path_metric=
 =3D min_node.spf_metric &#43; intf.metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; if path_met=
ric &lt; intf.remote_node.spf_metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;intf.remote_node.spf_metric =3D path_metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;if min_node is spf_root</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp;intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D make_list(intf)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;else</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp;intf.remote_node.next_hops =3D min_node.next_hops</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;insert_or_update(spf_heap, intf.remote_node)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; else if pat=
h_metric =3D=3D intf.remote_node.spf_metric</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;if min_node is spf_root</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; add_to_list(intf.remote_node.next_hops, intf)</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;else</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; add_list_to_list(intf.remote_node.next_hops,</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;min=
_node.next_hops)</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,serif"><br>
[Deccan] yes.</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><=
br>
3) in section &quot;5.9.4. &nbsp;Computing MRT Alternates for Proxy-Nodes&q=
uot;<br>
&quot;Similarly, if run Select_Alternates(X, F, primary_intf) and we find t=
hat it is safe to USE_BLUE to reach Y&quot;</span><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><br>
here the first parameter X would be replaced to Y.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#=
004080">[CB] &nbsp;Thanks. We will correct this as well.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
[Deccan] &nbsp;There maybe another issue in section &quot;5.6. &nbsp;Augmen=
ting the GADAG by directing all links&quot;. In function &quot;Run_Topologi=
cal_Sort_GADAG(topo, gadag_root)&quot;, because we only first add gadag_roo=
t to working_list, but not all other cut-vertexes, it is possible
 that some blocks have no chance to get Topological_Sort. For example, see =
Figure 10 (a), the block 3 which contains K, L, M, N, O, P will totally hav=
e no chance to &nbsp;get Topological_Sort. &nbsp;To be specific, since the =
cut-vertex K's all incoming interface have
 be removed temporarily, note that cut-link H-K is set to bidirectional bef=
ore Run_Topological_Sort_GADAG, K has no chance to be visited based on the =
VISIT_ACTION originated from GADAG root. Although in this example all links=
 in block3 have already be directed,
 we can get another example with a complicated block that will need Topolog=
ical_Sort to set undirected links. Please see if it is so.</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">-------------------------------------------=
-------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue">ZTE Information Security Notice: The inform=
ation contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted herewith) is p=
rivileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the add=
ressee(s).&nbsp; If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure, repr=
oduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of the information con=
tained is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have received this mail in erro=
r, please delete it and notify us immediately.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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Thanks a lot for the valuable comments.

I will try the address the comments in the next spin

Ahmed

On 4/20/2016 6:53 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this 
> draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or 
> routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG 
> review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is 
> to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about 
> the Routing Directorate, please see ​ 
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, 
> it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other 
> IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them 
> through discussion or by updating the draft.
>
> Document: draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-pic-00
> Reviewer: Bruno Decraene
> IETF LC End Date: “QA review” pre WG LC
> Intended Status: Informational
>
> *Summary:*
>
> I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be 
> resolved before publication.
>
> *Comments:*
>
> - Document is interesting. Document is relatively clear but sometime 
> it feels like there is a little room for some reformulation/edition to 
> improve fluidity. In particular, the learning curve is a bit steep at 
> the beginning of the doc as most of the concepts are introduced in 3 
> pages (pages 4-6) in the form of a list of terminology and a pseudo 
> code. I would find useful to have an overview section just after the 
> introduction, with a high level view of the solution with a limited 
> number of new terms.
>
> - The text feels like authoritative, while probably many terms are 
> implementation specific. A priori, I would not expect all 
> implementation of BGP PIC to use the same terms, and possibly not the 
> same data structure. May be the text could be generalized to cover 
> multiple implementations; or modified to describe a generalized 
> concept (i.e. data-structure designed to share as much data as 
> possible between elements, at the cost of additional indirections); or 
> the document could state that it describes a specific implementation 
> with implementations specific terminology, data structure, and 
> specifics. Or a combination of both (e.g. adding a section being both 
> generalized and describing the concept, and then the existing sections 
> after stating that they are specific to one implementation).
>
> *Minor Issues:*
>
> - I find figure 2 very useful to understand the data-structure. I 
> would move it sooner in the doc, somewhere before §2.2. (with its 
> subsequent text below) e.g. a new §2.2 "FIB data-structure"
>
> It would need to be generalized i.e. example non-specific. I could 
> think of:
>
> IP Leaf:      Pathlist:       IP Leaf:                Pathlist:
>
> --------      --------- -------                 --------
>
> BGP NLRI ---> BGP NH1   ----> IGP IP1 (BGP NH1)  ---> IGP NH1, I1  
> ---> Adjacency1
>
> BGP NHi   --...                         IGP NHi, Ii  --..
>
> |                                    |
>
> |                                         |
>
> |                                         |
>
> v                                         v
>
>           OutLabel Array:                           OutLabel Array:
>
> --------------                            --------------
>
>           L (NLRI, NH1)                             L (IP1, NH1)
>
> L (NLRI, NHi)                             L (IP1, NHi)
>
> - Figure 1 could be enhanced with IGP-NH1, IGP-NH2, I1 and I2.
>
> - Example 3 does not use the same naming convention than examples 1 
> and 2, this make it harder to follow for a priori no reason. e.g. VPN 
> labels are named VPN-L11 in examples 1 and 2, but are named 
> VPN-PE21(P1) in exmaple 3; transport labels are named LDP-L12 in 
> exmaples 1 and 2, but LASBR11(PE22) and L11 in figure 3.
>
> - §2.3.3
>
> "The local labels of the next hops".
>
>  - All labels are locally assigned. So what do you mean by "local"
>
> - "next-hop" sometimes refers to IGP/connected next-hop (a priori the 
> case here) and sometimes to BGP next-hop. I find it hard to follow. I 
> rather use a different name (e.g; connected next-hop vs BGP next-hop)
>
> - §3
>
> "the hashing at the BGP level yields path 0 while the hashing at the 
> IGP level yields path 1. In that case, the packet will be sent out of 
> interface I1 with the label stack "LDP-L12,VPN-L21".
>
> Does not seem to match my understanding. For "LDP-L12,VPN-L21" I would 
> assume BGP used path index 1 and IGP used path index 0.
>
> IMHO:
>
> OLD: "Hence ASBR22 swaps "LASBR22(PE22)" with the LDP/SR label of 
> PE22, pushes the label of the next-hop towards PE22 in domain 2, and 
> sends the packet along the shortest path towards PE22."
>
> NEW: "Hence ASBR22 swaps "LASBR22(PE22)" with the LDP/SR label for 
> PE22 advertised by the next-hop towards PE22 in domain 2, and sends 
> the packet along the shortest path towards PE22."
>
> (in all cases "swaps" then "pushes" would increase the label stack by 
> 1, which is not the case.)
>
> §4.1
>
> "the useable paths in the loadinfo"
>
> loadinfo is a proprietary FIB datastructure which has not been 
> introduced/defined. You need to either remove that term (if possible) 
> or define it somewhere.
>
> "Hence traffic restoration occurs within the time frame of IGP 
> convergence,"
>
> agree.
>
> ..."and, for local link failure, within the timeframe of local 
> detection. Thus it is possible to achieve sub-50 msec convergence as 
> described in [10] for local link failure"
>
> IMO, this is restricted to specific cases. e.g. external (eBGP) link 
> failure, ECMP case, possibly IP FRR.  So possibly
>
> OLD: for local link failure, within the timeframe of local detection. 
> Thus it is possible to achieve sub-50 msec convergence as described in 
> [10] for local link failure
>
> NEW: for local link failure, assuming a backup path has been 
> precomputed, within the timeframe of local detection (e.g. 50ms). 
> Example of solutions precomputing a backup path are IP FRR [LFA], 
> [RLFA], [MRT], [TI-LFA] or eBGP path having a backup path [10].
>
> §4
>
> I would find useful to indicate, for each type of failure, the number 
> of data-structure that need to be updated.
>
> ---
>
> §4.2.2
>
> "To avoid loops, ePE2 MUST treat any core facing path as a backup
>
>       path, otherwise ePE2 may redirect traffic arriving from the core
>
>       back to ePE1 causing a loop."
>
> Looks a bit under-described to me. Could you please elaborate a bit? 
> In particular:
>
> - if 2 PE (PE1, PE2) are connected in U to 2 P (P1, P2)     
> (P1-PE1-PE2-P2), PE1 being nominal and PE2 only used in backup, in the 
> nominal situation, if the core network sends the trafic to PE1 via PE2 
> (used as a P/transit), how does PE2 know that it must send this 
> traffic to PE1? (rather than CE2)
>
> - this behavior looks like an additional specific feature. How doew 
> ePE1 knows that ePE2 have this feature?
>
> ---
>
> §4.3
>
> "  Hence if the platform supports the "unflattened" forwarding chain,
>
>    then a single pathlist needs to be updated while if the platform
>
>    supports a shallower forwarding chain, then two pathlists need to be
>
>    updated."
>
> IINM "single"  and "two" pathlist applies to the specific example. In 
> this last sentence/summary, I'd prefer a more general statement. A 
> priori, without digging too much in this most complex use case, it 
> seems like :s/single/o(1)  :s/two/o(PE) . The former looks close 
> (single vs o(1)) but IMHO there is a significant difference between 2 
> and o(PE) (i.e. 100s)
>
> ---
>
> §5.1
>
> Good paragraph. It's quite clear that the convergence time does not 
> depend on the number of BGP prefixes, which is good. For the benefit 
> of the reader, it would be even more interesting if, for each type of 
> failure, the text could indicate on what it depends. e.g.  o(1), 
> o(connected interfaces), o(PE), o(PEnominal*PEbackup)....
>
> --
>
> §7
>
> "No additional security risk is introduced by using the mechanisms 
> proposed in this document"
>
> In general, with such a sentence, it's difficult to evaluate whether 
> the authors have very quickly evaluated the risk or if this evaluation 
> has been performed in details. So in general, some more text detailing 
> which aspects have been evaluated is interesting for the reader (yet 
> painful for the authors).
>
> As the document describe an internal box behavior, this is difficult 
> to evaluate and discuss. But from a bad experience, I fear that there 
> may be an impact. Indeed, with such structure, the FIB 
> structure/memory is typically different between BGP prefixes and IGP 
> prefixes. In general, the implementation is designed to support the 
> "right" numbers of both. But assuming an accident or an attack, the 
> numbers may not be "right". e.g. one upon a time, someone has 
> redistributed the BGP table into the IGP. In this case, the total 
> number of IP prefixes in the FIB is exactly the same. But as the data 
> structure used in the FIB was different between BGP and IGP prefixes, 
> the FIB ran out of memory and the line card crashed (well actually 
> only the IP FIB, so IS-IS hello packet were still correctly sent and 
> forwarded. As a result, traffic was permanently black holed)
>
> ---
>
> § 9
>
> OLD: that allows achieving prefix independent convergence
>
> NEW: that allows achieving BGP prefixes independent convergence
>
> (it's still depend on the number of IGP prefixes and/or BGP pathlist)
>
> *Nits:*
>
> Abstract
>
> "via more than one path."
>
> In this 1rst sentence, it's not clear what path really means. (e.g cf 
> the terminology section where you have more than one). I guess that 
> you mean "BGP path". (as there are also typically multiple IGP path to 
> reach each BGP Next Hop)
>
> "The objective is achieved through organizing the forwarding chains"
>
> "chain" does not self self explicit to me. what about :s/chains/data 
> structure"
>
> "complete transparency"
>
> what do you mean? transparency to what / from who?
>
> §1
>
> OLD: to allow for more than one path for a given prefix
>
> NEW: to allow for BGP to advertise more than one path for a given prefix
>
> OLD: Another more common and widely deployed scenario is L3VPN with 
> multi-homed VPN sites
>
> NEW: Another more common and widely deployed scenario is L3VPN with 
> multi-homed VPN sites with unique Route Distinguisher.
>
> ---
>
> §1.2
>
> "Pathlist: It is an array of paths"
>
> "OutLabel-Array: The OutLabel-Array is a list of one or more outgoing 
> labels "
>
> So a list is defined as an array and the array is defined as a list :-).
>
> What about using the same term, e.g. a list?
>
> --
>
> The OutLabel-Array is a list of one or more
>
>       outgoing labels and/or label actions where each label or label
>
>       action has 1-to-1 correspondence to a path in the pathlist. It
>
>       is possible that the number of entries in the OutLabel-array is
>
>       different from the number of paths in the pathlist and the ith
>
>       Outlabel-Array entry is associated with the path whose path-
>
>       index is "i".
>
> - I don't see how one can have a 1-to-1 correspondance if the number 
> of elements is not the same.
>
> - Last sentence could be splitted in 2.
>
> -- 
>
> Since the term ingres PE is defined, you could also detine the term 
> egress PE. Possibly in the same sentence.
>
> OLD: "Ingress PE, "iPE": It is a BGP speaker that learns about a
>
>       prefix through another IBGP peer and chooses that IBGP peer as
>
>       the next-hop for the prefix
>
> NEW:      "Ingress PE, "iPE": It is a BGP speaker that learns about a
>
>       prefix through a IBGP peer and chooses an egress PE as the 
> next-hop for the prefix.
>
> As a side note, the previous definition assume that there were no 
> Route Relfector (the iBGP peer is the BGP Next Hop)
>
> -- 
>
> §2.3
>
> Figure 1 represents a VPN network with 3 PE and a CE. In this context, 
> "VPN-P1" sounds a bit like a P router. What about :s/VPN-P1/VPN-IP1 ? 
> Same comment for IGP-P1.
>
> --
>
> §2.3.2
>
> OLD: ePE2 constructs the forwarding chain depicted in Figure 1
>
> NEW: ePE2 constructs the forwarding chain depicted in Figure 3
>
> OLD: VPL-L11
>
> NEW: VPN-L11
>
> §2.3.3
>
> OLD: can reach ASBR1
>
> NEW: can reach ASBR11
>
> OLD: The label for advertised by ASBR11 to iPE
>
> NEW: The label advertised by ASBR11 to iPE
>
> OLD: The labels for advertised by ASBR12 to iPE
>
> NEW: The labels advertised by ASBR12 to iPE
>
> OLD: The labels for advertised to iPE by ASBR11 using BGP-LU
>
> NEW: The labels advertised  by ASBR11 to iPE using BGP-LU
>
> ---
>
> §3
>
> OLD: Let's applying the above forwarding steps to the example 
> described in Figure 1 Section 2.3.1.
>
> OLD: Let's applying the above forwarding steps to the example 
> described in Figure 2 Section 2.3.1.
>
> (somewhat guesssing. But in all cases, there is no figure 1 in section 
> 2.3.1)
>
> ---
>
> §4.1
>
> IMO
>
> OLD: As soon as the IGP convergence is effective for the BGP nhop 
> entry, the new forwarding state is immediately available to all 
> dependent BGP prefixes.
>
> NEW: As soon as the IGP convergence is effective for a BGP next-hop 
> entry, the new forwarding state is immediately available to all 
> dependent BGP prefixes.
>
> more generally
>
> :s/nhop/next-hop
>
> ---
>
> §4.3
>
> :s/PE222/PE22
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bruno
>
> **
>
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    Thanks a lot for the valuable comments.<br>
    <br>
    I will try the address the comments in the next spin <br>
    <br>
    Ahmed<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/20/2016 6:53 AM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p><span lang="EN-US">Hello, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US">I have been selected as the Routing
            Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate
            seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as
            they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and
            sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is
            to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more
            information about the Routing Directorate, please see
          </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir"><span
              class="icon"><span style="color:blue" lang="EN-US">​</span></span><span
              lang="EN-US">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</span></a>
          <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US">Although these comments are primarily for
            the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could
            consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments
            that you receive, and strive to resolve them through
            discussion or by updating the draft. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><span lang="EN-US">Document: draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-pic-00<br>
            Reviewer: Bruno Decraene <br>
            IETF LC End Date: “QA review” pre WG LC <br>
            Intended Status: Informational<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><strong><span lang="EN-US">Summary:</span></strong><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I have some minor
            concerns about this document that I think should be resolved
            before publication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p><strong><span lang="EN-US">Comments:</span></strong><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- Document is
            interesting. Document is relatively clear but sometime it
            feels like there is a little room for some
            reformulation/edition to improve fluidity. In particular,
            the learning curve is a bit steep at the beginning of the
            doc as most of the concepts are introduced in 3 pages (pages
            4-6) in the form of a list of terminology and a pseudo code.
            I would find useful to have an overview section just after
            the introduction, with a high level view of the solution
            with a limited number of new terms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- The text feels like
            authoritative, while probably many terms are implementation
            specific. A priori, I would not expect all implementation of
            BGP PIC to use the same terms, and possibly not the same
            data structure. May be the text could be generalized to
            cover multiple implementations; or modified to describe a
            generalized concept (i.e. data-structure designed to share
            as much data as possible between elements, at the cost of
            additional indirections); or the document could state that
            it describes a specific implementation with implementations
            specific terminology, data structure, and specifics. Or a
            combination of both (e.g. adding a section being both
            generalized and describing the concept, and then the
            existing sections after stating that they are specific to
            one implementation).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Minor
              Issues:</span></strong><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- I find figure 2 very
            useful to understand the data-structure. I would move it
            sooner in the doc, somewhere before §2.2. (with its
            subsequent text below) e.g. a new §2.2 "FIB data-structure"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">It would need to be
            generalized i.e. example non-specific. I could think of:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">IP Leaf:      Pathlist:       IP
            Leaf:                Pathlist:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">--------      ---------      
            -------                 --------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">BGP NLRI ---&gt; BGP NH1   ----&gt;
            IGP IP1 (BGP NH1)  ---&gt; IGP NH1, I1  ---&gt; Adjacency1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">             
          </span><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">BGP
            NHi   --...                         IGP NHi, Ii  --..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;">               </span><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-US">|     
                                               |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">              
            |                                         |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">               
            |                                         |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">               
            v                                         v<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">          OutLabel
            Array:                           OutLabel Array:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">         
            --------------                            --------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">          L (NLRI,
            NH1)                             L (IP1, NH1)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;" lang="EN-US">         
          </span><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">L
            (NLRI, NHi)                             L (IP1, NHi)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">                                              
            <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- Figure 1 could be
            enhanced with IGP-NH1, IGP-NH2, I1 and I2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- Example 3 does not use
            the same naming convention than examples 1 and 2, this make
            it harder to follow for a priori no reason. e.g. VPN labels
            are named VPN-L11 in examples 1 and 2, but are named
            VPN-PE21(P1) in exmaple 3; transport labels are named
            LDP-L12 in exmaples 1 and 2, but LASBR11(PE22) and L11 in
            figure 3.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- §2.3.3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"The local labels of the
            next hops". <o:p>
            </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> - All labels are
            locally assigned. So what do you mean by "local"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- "next-hop" sometimes
            refers to IGP/connected next-hop (a priori the case here)
            and sometimes to BGP next-hop. I find it hard to follow. I
            rather use a different name (e.g; connected next-hop vs BGP
            next-hop)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- §3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"the hashing at the BGP
            level yields path 0 while the hashing at the IGP level
            yields path 1. In that case, the packet will be sent out of
            interface I1 with the label stack "LDP-L12,VPN-L21".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Does not seem to match
            my understanding. For "LDP-L12,VPN-L21" I would assume BGP
            used path index 1 and IGP used path index 0.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">IMHO:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: "Hence ASBR22 swaps
            "LASBR22(PE22)" with the LDP/SR label of PE22, pushes the
            label of the next-hop towards PE22 in domain 2, and sends
            the packet along the shortest path towards PE22."
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: "Hence ASBR22 swaps
            "LASBR22(PE22)" with the LDP/SR label for PE22 advertised by
            the next-hop towards PE22 in domain 2, and sends the packet
            along the shortest path towards PE22."
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(in all cases "swaps"
            then "pushes" would increase the label stack by 1, which is
            not the case.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§4.1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"the useable paths in
            the loadinfo"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">loadinfo is a
            proprietary FIB datastructure which has not been
            introduced/defined. You need to either remove that term (if
            possible) or define it somewhere.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"Hence traffic
            restoration occurs within the time frame of IGP
            convergence,"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">..."and, for local link
            failure, within the timeframe of local detection. Thus it is
            possible to achieve sub-50 msec convergence as described in
            [10] for local link failure"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">IMO, this is restricted
            to specific cases. e.g. external (eBGP) link failure, ECMP
            case, possibly IP FRR.  So possibly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: for local link
            failure, within the timeframe of local detection. Thus it is
            possible to achieve sub-50 msec convergence as described in
            [10] for local link failure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: for local link
            failure, assuming a backup path has been precomputed, within
            the timeframe of local detection (e.g. 50ms). Example of
            solutions precomputing a backup path are IP FRR [LFA],
            [RLFA], [MRT], [TI-LFA] or eBGP path having a backup path
            [10]. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I would find useful to
            indicate, for each type of failure, the number of
            data-structure that need to be updated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§4.2.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"To avoid loops, ePE2
            MUST treat any core facing path as a backup<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      path, otherwise
            ePE2 may redirect traffic arriving from the core<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      back to ePE1
            causing a loop."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">                  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Looks a bit
            under-described to me. Could you please elaborate a bit? In
            particular:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- if 2 PE (PE1, PE2) are
            connected in U to 2 P (P1, P2)     (P1-PE1-PE2-P2), PE1
            being nominal and PE2 only used in backup, in the nominal
            situation, if the core network sends the trafic to PE1 via
            PE2 (used as a P/transit), how does PE2 know that it must
            send this traffic to PE1? (rather than CE2)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- this behavior looks
            like an additional specific feature. How doew ePE1 knows
            that ePE2 have this feature?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§4.3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"  Hence if the platform
            supports the "unflattened" forwarding chain,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">   then a single
            pathlist needs to be updated while if the platform<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">   supports a shallower
            forwarding chain, then two pathlists need to be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">   updated."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">IINM "single"  and "two"
            pathlist applies to the specific example. In this last
            sentence/summary, I'd prefer a more general statement. A
            priori, without digging too much in this most complex use
            case, it seems like :s/single/o(1)  :s/two/o(PE) . The
            former looks close (single vs o(1)) but IMHO there is a
            significant difference between 2 and o(PE) (i.e. 100s)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§5.1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Good paragraph. It's
            quite clear that the convergence time does not depend on the
            number of BGP prefixes, which is good. For the benefit of
            the reader, it would be even more interesting if, for each
            type of failure, the text could indicate on what it depends.
            e.g.  o(1), o(connected interfaces), o(PE),
            o(PEnominal*PEbackup)....  
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§7<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"No additional security
            risk is introduced by using the mechanisms proposed in this
            document"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In general, with such a
            sentence, it's difficult to evaluate whether the authors
            have very quickly evaluated the risk or if this evaluation
            has been performed in details. So in general, some more text
            detailing which aspects have been evaluated is interesting
            for the reader (yet painful for the authors).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As the document describe
            an internal box behavior, this is difficult to evaluate and
            discuss. But from a bad experience, I fear that there may be
            an impact. Indeed, with such structure, the FIB
            structure/memory is typically different between BGP prefixes
            and IGP prefixes. In general, the implementation is designed
            to support the "right" numbers of both. But assuming an
            accident or an attack, the numbers may not be "right". e.g.
            one upon a time, someone has redistributed the BGP table
            into the IGP. In this case, the total number of IP prefixes
            in the FIB is exactly the same. But as the data structure
            used in the FIB was different between BGP and IGP prefixes,
            the FIB ran out of memory and the line card crashed (well
            actually only the IP FIB, so IS-IS hello packet were still
            correctly sent and forwarded. As a result, traffic was
            permanently black holed)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§ 9<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: that allows
            achieving prefix independent convergence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: that allows
            achieving BGP prefixes independent convergence
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(it's still depend on
            the number of IGP prefixes and/or BGP pathlist)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Nits:<o:p></o:p></span></strong></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Abstract<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"via more than one
            path."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In this 1rst sentence,
            it's not clear what path really means. (e.g cf the
            terminology section where you have more than one). I guess
            that you mean "BGP path". (as there are also typically
            multiple IGP path to reach each BGP Next Hop)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"The objective is
            achieved through organizing the forwarding chains"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"chain" does not self
            self explicit to me. what about :s/chains/data structure"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"complete transparency"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">what do you mean?
            transparency to what / from who?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: to allow for more
            than one path for a given prefix
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: to allow for BGP to
            advertise more than one path for a given prefix
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: Another more common
            and widely deployed scenario is L3VPN with multi-homed VPN
            sites<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: Another more common
            and widely deployed scenario is L3VPN with multi-homed VPN
            sites with unique Route Distinguisher.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§1.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"Pathlist: It is an
            array of paths"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"OutLabel-Array: The
            OutLabel-Array is a list of one or more outgoing labels "<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So a list is defined as
            an array and the array is defined as a list :-).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">What about using the
            same term, e.g. a list?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The OutLabel-Array is a
            list of one or more<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      outgoing labels
            and/or label actions where each label or label<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      action has 1-to-1
            correspondence to a path in the pathlist. It<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      is possible that
            the number of entries in the OutLabel-array is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      different from the
            number of paths in the pathlist and the ith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      Outlabel-Array
            entry is associated with the path whose path-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      index is "i".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">                  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- I don't see how one
            can have a 1-to-1 correspondance if the number of elements
            is not the same.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">- Last sentence could be
            splitted in 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">--              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Since the term ingres PE
            is defined, you could also detine the term egress PE.
            Possibly in the same sentence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: "Ingress PE, "iPE":
            It is a BGP speaker that learns about a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      prefix through
            another IBGP peer and chooses that IBGP peer as<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      the next-hop for
            the prefix<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">                  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW:      "Ingress PE,
            "iPE": It is a BGP speaker that learns about a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">      prefix through a
            IBGP peer and chooses an egress PE as the next-hop for the
            prefix.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">                  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As a side note, the
            previous definition assume that there were no Route
            Relfector (the iBGP peer is the BGP Next Hop)               
             
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§2.3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Figure 1 represents a
            VPN network with 3 PE and a CE. In this context, "VPN-P1"
            sounds a bit like a P router. What about :s/VPN-P1/VPN-IP1 
            ? Same comment for IGP-P1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§2.3.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: ePE2 constructs the
            forwarding chain depicted in Figure 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: ePE2 constructs the
            forwarding chain depicted in Figure 3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: VPL-L11<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: VPN-L11<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§2.3.3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: can reach ASBR1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: can reach ASBR11<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: The label for
            advertised by ASBR11 to iPE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: The label
            advertised by ASBR11 to iPE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: The labels for
            advertised by ASBR12 to iPE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: The labels
            advertised by ASBR12 to iPE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: The labels for
            advertised to iPE by ASBR11 using BGP-LU<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: The labels
            advertised  by ASBR11 to iPE using BGP-LU<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: Let's applying the
            above forwarding steps to the example described in Figure 1
            Section 2.3.1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: Let's applying the
            above forwarding steps to the example described in Figure 2
            Section 2.3.1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(somewhat guesssing. But
            in all cases, there is no figure 1 in section 2.3.1)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§4.1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">IMO <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">OLD: As soon as the IGP
            convergence is effective for the BGP nhop entry, the new
            forwarding state is immediately available to all dependent
            BGP prefixes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">NEW: As soon as the IGP
            convergence is effective for a BGP next-hop entry, the new
            forwarding state is immediately available to all dependent
            BGP prefixes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">more generally<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">:s/nhop/next-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">§4.3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">:s/PE222/PE22<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></strong></p>
      </div>
      <pre>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc@ietf.org>, Routing ADs <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
Thread-Topic: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:16:03 +0000
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:01:58 -0400
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Subject: Re: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Hi Acee,

Thank you very much for your review.

Authors, could you please respond soon?  I am hoping to get this out to
IETF Last Call
by Thursday - and on the telechat for May 19.    That depends on timely
updates from
the authors and shepherd.

Thanks,
Alia



On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.
> The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related
> drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes
> on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to
> the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate,
> please see =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it
> would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Las=
t
> Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through
> discussion or by updating the draft.
>
> Document: draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc-09.txt
> Reviewer: Acee Lindem
> Review Date: 4/25/16
> IETF LC End Date: Not started
> Intended Status: Informational
>
> Summary:
>     This document is basically ready for publication, but has some minor
> issues and nits that should be resolved prior to publication.
>
> Comments:
>     The document starts with the requirements for an MSDC routing and the=
n
> provides an overview of Clos data topologies and data center network
> design. This overview attempts to cover a lot of a material in a very
> small amount of text. While not completely successful, the overview
> provides a lot of good information and references. The bulk of the
> document covers the usage of EBGP as the sole data center routing protoco=
l
> and other aspects of the routing design including ECMP, summarization
> issues, and convergence. These sections provide a very good guide for
> using EBGP in a Clos data center and an excellent discussion of the
> deployment issues (based on real deployment experience).
>
>     The technical content of the document is excellent. The readability
> could be improved by breaking up some of the run-on sentences and with th=
e
> suggested editorial changes (see Nits below).
>
>
> Major Issues:
>
>     I have no major issues with the document.
>
> Minor Issues:
>
>     Section 4.2: Can an informative reference be added for Direct Server
> Return (DSR)?
>     Section 5.2.4 and 7.4: Define precisely what is meant by "scale-out"
> topology somewhere in the document.
>     Section 5.2.5: Can you add a backward reference to the discussion of
> "lack of peer links inside every peer=E2=80=9D? Also, it would be good to=
 describe
> how this would allow for summarization and under what failure conditions.
>     Section 7.4: Should you add a reference to
> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-pic-00.txt to the penultimat=
e
> paragraph in this section?
>
> Nits:
>
> ***************
> *** 143,149 ****
>      network stability so that a small group of people can effectively
>      support a significantly sized network.
>
> !    Experimentation and extensive testing has shown that External BGP
>      (EBGP) [RFC4271] is well suited as a stand-alone routing protocol fo=
r
>      these type of data center applications.  This is in contrast with
>      more traditional DC designs, which may se simple tree topologies and
> --- 143,149 ----
>      network stability so that a sall group of people can effectively
>      support a significantly sized network.
>
> !    Experimentation and extensive testing have shown that External BGP
>      (EBGP) [RFC4271] is well suited as a stand-alone routing protocol fo=
r
>      these type of data center applications.  This is in contrast with
>      more traditional DC designs, which may use simple tree topologies an=
d
> ***************
> *** 178,191 ****
>   2.1.  Bandwidth and Traffic Patterns
>
>      The primary requirement when building an interconnection network for
> !    large number of servers is to accommodate application bandwidth and
>      latency requirements.  Until recently it was quite common to see the
>      majority of traffic entering and leaving the data center, commonly
>      referred to as "north-south" traffic.  Traditional "tree" topologies
>      were sufficient to accommodate such flows, even with high
>      oversubscription ratios between the layers of the network.  If more
>      bandwidth was required, it was added by "scaling up" the network
> !    elements, e.g. by upgrading the device's linecards or fabrics or
>      replacing the device with one with higher port density.
>
>      Today many large-scale data centers host applications generating
> --- 178,191 ----
>   2.1.  Bandwidth and Traffic Patterns
>
>      The primary requirement when building an interconnection network for
> !    a large number of servers is to accommodate application bandwidth an=
d
>      latency requirements.  Until recently it was quite common to see the
>      majority of traffic entering and leaving the data center, commonly
>      referred to as "north-south" traffic.  Traditional "tree" topologies
>      were sufficient to accommodate such flows, even with high
>      oversubscription ratios between the layers of the network.  If more
>      bandwidth was required, it was added by "scaling up" the network
> !    elements, e.g., by upgrading the device's linecards or fabrics or
>      replacing the device with one with higher port density.
>
>      Today many large-scale data centers host applications generating
> ***************
> *** 195,201 ****
>      [HADOOP], massive data replication between clusters needed by certai=
n
>      applications, or virtual machine migrations.  Scaling traditional
>      tree topologies to match these bandwidth demands becomes either too
> !    expensive or impossible due to physical limitations, e.g. port
>      density in a switch.
>
>   2.2.  CAPEX Minimization
> --- 195,201 ----
>      [HADOOP], massive data replication between clusters needed by certai=
n
>      applications, or virtual machine migrations.  Scaling traditional
>      tree topologies to match these bandwidth demands becomes either too
> !    expensive or impossible due to physical limitations, e.g., port
>      density in a switch.
>
>   2.2.  CAPEX Minimization
> ***************
> *** 209,215 ****
>
>      o  Unifying all network elements, preferably using the same hardware
>         type or even the same device.  This allows for volume pricing on
> !       bulk purchases and reduced maintenance and sparing costs.
>
>      o  Driving costs down using competitive pressures, by introducing
>         multiple network equipment vendors.
> --- 209,215 ----
>
>      o  Unifying all network elements, preferably using the same hardware
>         type or even the same device.  This allows for volume pricing on
> !       bulk purchases and reduced maintenance and inventory costs.
>
>      o  Driving costs down using competitive pressures, by introducing
>         multiple network equipment vendors.
> ***************
> *** 234,244 ****
>      minimizes software issue-related failures.
>
>      An important aspect of Operational Expenditure (OPEX) minimization i=
s
> !    reducing size of failure domains in the network.  Ethernet networks
>      are known to be susceptible to broadcast or unicast traffic storms
>      that can have a dramatic impact on network performance and
>      availability.  The use of a fully routed design significantly reduce=
s
> !    the size of the data plane failure domains - i.e. limits them to the
>      lowest level in the network hierarchy.  However, such designs
>      introduce the problem of distributed control plane failures.  This
>      observation calls for simpler and less control plane protocols to
> --- 234,244 ----
>      minimizes software issue-related failures.
>
>      An important aspect of Operational Expenditure (OPEX) minimization i=
s
> !    reducing the size of failure domains in the network.  Ethernet
> networks
>      are known to be susceptible to broadcast or unicast traffic storms
>      that can have a dramatic impact on network performance and
>      availability.  The use of a fully routed design significantly reduce=
s
> !    the size of the data plane failure domains, i.e., limits them to the
>      lowest level in the network hierarchy.  However, such designs
>      introduce the problem of distributed control plane failures.  This
>      observation calls for simpler and less control plane protocols to
> ***************
> *** 253,259 ****
>      performed by network devices.  Traditionally, load balancers are
>      deployed as dedicated devices in the traffic forwarding path.  The
>      problem arises in scaling load balancers under growing traffic
> !    demand.  A preferable solution would be able to scale load balancing
>      layer horizontally, by adding more of the uniform nodes and
>      distributing incoming traffic across these nodes.  In situations lik=
e
>      this, an ideal choice would be to use network infrastructure itself
> --- 253,259 ----
>      performed by network devices.  Traditionally, load balancers are
>      deployed as dedicated devices in the traffic forwarding path.  The
>      problem arises in scaling load balancers under growing traffic
> !    demand.  A preferable solution would be able to scale the load
> balancing
>      layer horizontally, by adding more of the uniform nodes and
>      distributing incoming traffic across these nodes.  In situations lik=
e
>      this, an ideal choice would be to use network infrastructure itself
> ***************
> *** 305,311 ****
>   3.1.  Traditional DC Topology
>
>      In the networking industry, a common design choice for data centers
> !    typically look like a (upside down) tree with redundant uplinks and
>      three layers of hierarchy namely; core, aggregation/distribution and
>      access layers (see Figure 1).  To accommodate bandwidth demands, eac=
h
>      higher layer, from server towards DC egress or WAN, has higher port
> --- 305,311 ----
>   3.1.  Traditional DC Topology
>
>      In the networking industry, a common design choice for data centers
> !    typically look like an (upside down) tree with redundant uplinks and
>      three layers of hierarchy namely; core, aggregation/distribution and
>      access layers (see Figure 1).  To accommodate bandwidth demands, eac=
h
>      higher layer, from server towards DC egress or WAN, has higher port
> ***************
> *** 373,379 ****
>      topology, sometimes called "fat-tree" (see, for example, [INTERCON]
>      and [ALFARES2008]).  This topology features an odd number of stages
>      (sometimes known as dimensions) and is commonly made of uniform
> !    elements, e.g. network switches with the same port count.  Therefore=
,
>      the choice of folded Clos topology satisfies REQ1 and facilitates
>      REQ2.  See Figure 2 below for an example of a folded 3-stage Clos
>      topology (3 stages counting Tier-2 stage twice, when tracing a packe=
t
> --- 373,379 ----
>      topology, sometimes called "fat-tree" (see, for example, [INTERCON]
>      and [ALFARES2008]).  This topology features an odd number of stages
>      (sometimes known as dimensions) and is commonly made of uniform
> !    elements, e.g., network switches with the same port count.  Therefor=
e,
>      the choice of folded Clos topology satisfies REQ1 and facilitates
>      REQ2.  See Figure 2 below for an example of a folded 3-stage Clos
>      topology (3 stages counting Tier-2 stage twice, when tracing a packe=
t
> ***************
> *** 460,466 ****
>   3.2.3.  Scaling the Clos topology
>
>      A Clos topology can be scaled either by increasing network element
> !    port density or adding more stages, e.g. moving to a 5-stage Clos, a=
s
>      illustrated in Figure 3 below:
>
>                                         Tier-1
> --- 460,466 ----
>   3.2.3.  Scaling the Clos topology
>
>      A Clos topology can be scaled either by increasing network element
> !    port density or adding more stages, e.g., moving to a 5-stage Clos, =
as
>      illustrated in Figure 3 below:
>
>                                         Tier-1
> ***************
> *** 523,529 ****
>   3.2.4.  Managing the Size of Clos Topology Tiers
>
>      If a data center network size is small, it is possible to reduce the
> !    number of switches in Tier-1 or Tier-2 of Clos topology by a factor
>      of two.  To understand how this could be done, take Tier-1 as an
>      example.  Every Tier-2 device connects to a single group of Tier-1
>      devices.  If half of the ports on each of the Tier-1 devices are not
> --- 523,529 ----
>   3.2.4.  Managing the Size of Clos Topology Tiers
>
>      If a data center network size is small, it is possible to reduce the
> !    number of switches in Tier-1 or Tier-2 of a Clos topology by a facto=
r
>      of two.  To understand how this could be done, take Tier-1 as an
>      example.  Every Tier-2 device connects to a single group of Tier-1
>      devices.  If half of the ports on each of the Tier-1 devices are not
> ***************
> *** 574,580 ****
>      originally defined in [IEEE8021D-1990] for loop free topology
>      creation, typically utilizing variants of the traditional DC topolog=
y
>      described in Section 3.1.  At the time, many DC switches either did
> !    not support Layer 3 routed protocols or supported it with additional
>      licensing fees, which played a part in the design choice.  Although
>      many enhancements have been made through the introduction of Rapid
>      Spanning Tree Protocol (RSTP) in the latest revision of
> --- 574,580 ----
>      originally defined in [IEEE8021D-1990] for loop free topology
>      creation, typically utilizing variants of the traditional DC topolog=
y
>      described in Section 3.1.  At the time, many DC switches either did
> !    not support Layer 3 routing protocols or supported them with
> additional
>      licensing fees, which played a part in the design choice.  Although
>      many enhancements have been made through the introduction of Rapid
>      Spanning Tree Protocol (RSTP) in the latest revision of
> ***************
> *** 599,605 ****
>      as the backup for loop prevention.  The major downsides of this
>      approach are the lack of ability to scale linearly past two in most
>      implementations, lack of standards based implementations, and added
> !    failure domain risk of keeping state between the devices.
>
>      It should be noted that building large, horizontally scalable, Layer
>      2 only networks without STP is possible recently through the
> --- 599,605 ----
>      as the backup for loop prevention.  The major downsides of this
>      approach are the lack of ability to scale linearly past two in most
>      implementations, lack of standards based implementations, and added
> !    the failure domain risk of syncing state between the devices.
>
>      It should be noted that building large, horizontally scalable, Layer
>      2 only networks without STP is possible recently through the
> ***************
> *** 621,631 ****
>      Finally, neither the base TRILL specification nor the M-LAG approach
>      totally eliminate the problem of the shared broadcast domain, that i=
s
>      so detrimental to the operations of any Layer 2, Ethernet based
> !    solutions.  Later TRILL extensions have been proposed to solve the
>      this problem statement primarily based on the approaches outlined in
>      [RFC7067], but this even further limits the number of available
> !    interoperable implementations that can be used to build a fabric,
> !    therefore TRILL based designs have issues meeting REQ2, REQ3, and
>      REQ4.
>
>   4.2.  Hybrid L2/L3 Designs
> --- 621,631 ----
>      Finally, neither the base TRILL specification nor the M-LAG approach
>      totally eliminate the problem of the shared broadcast domain, that i=
s
>      so detrimental to the operations of any Layer 2, Ethernet based
> !    solution.  Later TRILL extensions have been proposed to solve the
>      this problem statement primarily based on the approaches outlined in
>      [RFC7067], but this even further limits the number of available
> !    interoperable implementations that can be used to build a fabric.
> !    Therefore, TRILL based designs have issues meeting REQ2, REQ3, and
>      REQ4.
>
>   4.2.  Hybrid L2/L3 Designs
> ***************
> *** 635,641 ****
>      in either the Tier-1 or Tier-2 parts of the network and dividing the
>      Layer 2 domain into numerous, smaller domains.  This design has
>      allowed data centers to scale up, but at the cost of complexity in
> !    the network managing multiple protocols.  For the following reasons,
>      operators have retained Layer 2 in either the access (Tier-3) or bot=
h
>      access and aggregation (Tier-3 and Tier-2) parts of the network:
>
> --- 635,641 ----
>      in either the Tier-1 or Tier-2 parts of the network and dividing the
>      Layer 2 domain into numerous, smaller domains.  This design has
>      allowed data centers to scale up, but at the cost of complexity in
> !    the managing multiple network protocols.  For the following reasons,
>      operators have retained Layer 2 in either the access (Tier-3) or bot=
h
>      access and aggregation (Tier-3 and Tier-2) parts of the network:
>
> ***************
> *** 644,650 ****
>
>      o  Seamless mobility for virtual machines that require the
>         preservation of IP addresses when a virtual machine moves to
> !       different Tier-3 switch.
>
>      o  Simplified IP addressing =3D less IP subnets are required for the
>         data center.
> --- 644,650 ----
>
>      o  Seamless mobility for virtual machines that require the
>         preservation of IP addresses when a virtual machine moves to
> !       a different Tier-3 switch.
>
>      o  Simplified IP addressing =3D less IP subnets are required for the
>         data center.
> ***************
> *** 679,686 ****
>      adoption in networks where large Layer 2 adjacency and larger size
>      Layer 3 subnets are not as critical compared to network scalability
>      and stability.  Application providers and network operators continue
> !    to also develop new solutions to meet some of the requirements that
> !    previously have driven large Layer 2 domains by using various overla=
y
>      or tunneling techniques.
>
>   5.  Routing Protocol Selection and Design
> --- 679,686 ----
>      adoption in networks where large Layer 2 adjacency and larger size
>      Layer 3 subnets are not as critical compared to network scalability
>      and stability.  Application providers and network operators continue
> !    to develop new solutions to meet some of the requirements that
> !    previously had driven large Layer 2 domains using various overlay
>      or tunneling techniques.
>
>   5.  Routing Protocol Selection and Design
> ***************
> *** 700,706 ****
>      design.
>
>      Although EBGP is the protocol used for almost all inter-domain
> !    routing on the Internet and has wide support from both vendor and
>      service provider communities, it is not generally deployed as the
>      primary routing protocol within the data center for a number of
>      reasons (some of which are interrelated):
> --- 700,706 ----
>      design.
>
>      Although EBGP is the protocol used for almost all inter-domain
> !    routing in the Internet and has wide support from both vendor and
>      service provider communities, it is not generally deployed as the
>      primary routing protocol within the data center for a number of
>      reasons (some of which are interrelated):
> ***************
> *** 741,754 ****
>         state IGPs.  Since every BGP router calculates and propagates onl=
y
>         the best-path selected, a network failure is masked as soon as th=
e
>         BGP speaker finds an alternate path, which exists when highly
> !       symmetric topologies, such as Clos, are coupled with EBGP only
>         design.  In contrast, the event propagation scope of a link-state
>         IGP is an entire area, regardless of the failure type.  In this
>         way, BGP better meets REQ3 and REQ4.  It is also worth mentioning
>         that all widely deployed link-state IGPs feature periodic
> !       refreshes of routing information, even if this rarely causes
> !       impact to modern router control planes, while BGP does not expire
> !       routing state.
>
>      o  BGP supports third-party (recursively resolved) next-hops.  This
>         allows for manipulating multipath to be non-ECMP based or
> --- 741,754 ----
>         state IGPs.  Since every BGP router calculates and propagates onl=
y
>         the best-path selected, a network failure is masked as soon as th=
e
>         BGP speaker finds an alternate path, which exists when highly
> !       symmetric topologies, such as Clos, are coupled with an EBGP only
>         design.  In contrast, the event propagation scope of a link-state
>         IGP is an entire area, regardless of the failure type.  In this
>         way, BGP better meets REQ3 and REQ4.  It is also worth mentioning
>         that all widely deployed link-state IGPs feature periodic
> !       refreshes of routing information while BGP does not expire
> !       routing state, although this rarely impacts modern router control
> !       planes.
>
>      o  BGP supports third-party (recursively resolved) next-hops.  This
>         allows for manipulating multipath to be non-ECMP based or
> ***************
> *** 765,775 ****
>         controlled and complex unwanted paths will be ignored.  See
>         Section 5.2 for an example of a working ASN allocation scheme.  I=
n
>         a link-state IGP accomplishing the same goal would require multi-
> !       (instance/topology/processes) support, typically not available in
>         all DC devices and quite complex to configure and troubleshoot.
>         Using a traditional single flooding domain, which most DC designs
>         utilize, under certain failure conditions may pick up unwanted
> !       lengthy paths, e.g. traversing multiple Tier-2 devices.
>
>      o  EBGP configuration that is implemented with minimal routing polic=
y
>         is easier to troubleshoot for network reachability issues.  In
> --- 765,775 ----
>         controlled and complex unwanted paths will be ignored.  See
>         Section 5.2 for an example of a working ASN allocation scheme.  I=
n
>         a link-state IGP accomplishing the same goal would require multi-
> !       (instance/topology/process) support, typically not available in
>         all DC devices and quite complex to configure and troubleshoot.
>         Using a traditional single flooding domain, which most DC designs
>         utilize, under certain failure conditions may pick up unwanted
> !       lengthy paths, e.g., traversing multiple Tier-2 devices.
>
>      o  EBGP configuration that is implemented with minimal routing polic=
y
>         is easier to troubleshoot for network reachability issues.  In
> ***************
> *** 806,812 ****
>         loopback sessions are used even in the case of multiple links
>         between the same pair of nodes.
>
> !    o  Private Use ASNs from the range 64512-65534 are used so as to
>         avoid ASN conflicts.
>
>      o  A single ASN is allocated to all of the Clos topology's Tier-1
> --- 806,812 ----
>         loopback sessions are used even in the case of multiple links
>         between the same pair of nodes.
>
> !    o  Private Use ASNs from the range 64512-65534 are used to
>         avoid ASN conflicts.
>
>      o  A single ASN is allocated to all of the Clos topology's Tier-1
> ***************
> *** 815,821 ****
>      o  A unique ASN is allocated to each set of Tier-2 devices in the
>         same cluster.
>
> !    o  A unique ASN is allocated to every Tier-3 device (e.g.  ToR) in
>         this topology.
>
>
> --- 815,821 ----
>      o  A unique ASN is allocated to each set of Tier-2 devices in the
>         same cluster.
>
> !    o  A unique ASN is allocated to every Tier-3 device (e.g.,  ToR) in
>         this topology.
>
>
> ***************
> *** 903,922 ****
>
>      Another solution to this problem would be using Four-Octet ASNs
>      ([RFC6793]), where there are additional Private Use ASNs available,
> !    see [IANA.AS].  Use of Four-Octet ASNs put additional protocol
> !    complexity in the BGP implementation so should be considered against
>      the complexity of re-use when considering REQ3 and REQ4.  Perhaps
>      more importantly, they are not yet supported by all BGP
>      implementations, which may limit vendor selection of DC equipment.
> !    When supported, ensure that implementations in use are able to remov=
e
> !    the Private Use ASNs if required for external connectivity
> !    (Section 5.2.4).
>
>   5.2.3.  Prefix Advertisement
>
>      A Clos topology features a large number of point-to-point links and
>      associated prefixes.  Advertising all of these routes into BGP may
> !    create FIB overload conditions in the network devices.  Advertising
>      these links also puts additional path computation stress on the BGP
>      control plane for little benefit.  There are two possible solutions:
>
> --- 903,922 ----
>
>      Another solution to this problem would be using Four-Octet ASNs
>      ([RFC6793]), where there are additional Private Use ASNs available,
> !    see [IANA.AS].  Use of Four-Octet ASNs puts additional protocol
> !    complexity in the BGP implementation and should be balanced against
>      the complexity of re-use when considering REQ3 and REQ4.  Perhaps
>      more importantly, they are not yet supported by all BGP
>      implementations, which may limit vendor selection of DC equipment.
> !    When supported, ensure that deployed implementations are able to
> remove
> !    the Private Use ASNs when external connectivity to these ASes is
> !    required (Section 5.2.4).
>
>   5.2.3.  Prefix Advertisement
>
>      A Clos topology features a large number of point-to-point links and
>      associated prefixes.  Advertising all of these routes into BGP may
> !    create FIB overload in the network devices.  Advertising
>      these links also puts additional path computation stress on the BGP
>      control plane for little benefit.  There are two possible solutions:
>
> ***************
> *** 925,951 ****
>         device, distant networks will automatically be reachable via the
>         advertising EBGP peer and do not require reachability to these
>         prefixes.  However, this may complicate operations or monitoring:
> !       e.g. using the popular "traceroute" tool will display IP addresse=
s
>         that are not reachable.
>
>      o  Advertise point-to-point links, but summarize them on every
>         device.  This requires an address allocation scheme such as
>         allocating a consecutive block of IP addresses per Tier-1 and
>         Tier-2 device to be used for point-to-point interface addressing
> !       to the lower layers (Tier-2 uplinks will be numbered out of Tier-=
1
> !       addressing and so forth).
>
>      Server subnets on Tier-3 devices must be announced into BGP without
>      using route summarization on Tier-2 and Tier-1 devices.  Summarizing
>      subnets in a Clos topology results in route black-holing under a
> !    single link failure (e.g. between Tier-2 and Tier-3 devices) and
>      hence must be avoided.  The use of peer links within the same tier t=
o
>      resolve the black-holing problem by providing "bypass paths" is
>      undesirable due to O(N^2) complexity of the peering mesh and waste o=
f
>      ports on the devices.  An alternative to the full-mesh of peer-links
> !    would be using a simpler bypass topology, e.g. a "ring" as described
>      in [FB4POST], but such a topology adds extra hops and has very
> !    limited bisection bandwidth, in addition requiring special tweaks to
>
>
>
> --- 925,951 ----
>         device, distant networks will automatically be reachable via the
>         advertising EBGP peer and do not require reachability to these
>         prefixes.  However, this may complicate operations or monitoring:
> !       e.g., using the popular "traceroute" tool will display IP address=
es
>         that are not reachable.
>
>      o  Advertise point-to-point links, but summarize them on every
>         device.  This requires an address allocation scheme such as
>         allocating a consecutive block of IP addresses per Tier-1 and
>         Tier-2 device to be used for point-to-point interface addressing
> !       to the lower layers (Tier-2 uplink addresses will be allocated
> !       from Tier-1 address blocks and so forth).
>
>      Server subnets on Tier-3 devices must be announced into BGP without
>      using route summarization on Tier-2 and Tier-1 devices.  Summarizing
>      subnets in a Clos topology results in route black-holing under a
> !    single link failure (e.g., between Tier-2 and Tier-3 devices) and
>      hence must be avoided.  The use of peer links within the same tier t=
o
>      resolve the black-holing problem by providing "bypass paths" is
>      undesirable due to O(N^2) complexity of the peering mesh and waste o=
f
>      ports on the devices.  An alternative to the full-mesh of peer-links
> !    would be using a simpler bypass topology, e.g., a "ring" as describe=
d
>      in [FB4POST], but such a topology adds extra hops and has very
> !    limited bisectional bandwidth. Additionally requiring special tweaks
> to
>
>
>
> ***************
> *** 956,963 ****
>
>      make BGP routing work - such as possibly splitting every device into
>      an ASN on its own.  Later in this document, Section 8.2 introduces a
> !    less intrusive method for performing a limited form route
> !    summarization in Clos networks and discusses it's associated trade-
>      offs.
>
>   5.2.4.  External Connectivity
> --- 956,963 ----
>
>      make BGP routing work - such as possibly splitting every device into
>      an ASN on its own.  Later in this document, Section 8.2 introduces a
> !    less intrusive method for performing a limited form of route
> !    summarization in Clos networks and discusses its associated trade-
>      offs.
>
>   5.2.4.  External Connectivity
> ***************
> *** 972,985 ****
>      document.  These devices have to perform a few special functions:
>
>      o  Hide network topology information when advertising paths to WAN
> !       routers, i.e. remove Private Use ASNs [RFC6996] from the AS_PATH
>         attribute.  This is typically done to avoid ASN number collisions
>         between different data centers and also to provide a uniform
>         AS_PATH length to the WAN for purposes of WAN ECMP to Anycast
>         prefixes originated in the topology.  An implementation specific
>         BGP feature typically called "Remove Private AS" is commonly used
>         to accomplish this.  Depending on implementation, the feature
> !       should strip a contiguous sequence of Private Use ASNs found in
>         AS_PATH attribute prior to advertising the path to a neighbor.
>         This assumes that all ASNs used for intra data center numbering
>         are from the Private Use ranges.  The process for stripping the
> --- 972,985 ----
>      document.  These devices have to perform a few special functions:
>
>      o  Hide network topology information when advertising paths to WAN
> !       routers, i.e., remove Private Use ASNs [RFC6996] from the AS_PATH
>         attribute.  This is typically done to avoid ASN number collisions
>         between different data centers and also to provide a uniform
>         AS_PATH length to the WAN for purposes of WAN ECMP to Anycast
>         prefixes originated in the topology.  An implementation specific
>         BGP feature typically called "Remove Private AS" is commonly used
>         to accomplish this.  Depending on implementation, the feature
> !       should strip a contiguous sequence of Private Use ASNs found in a=
n
>         AS_PATH attribute prior to advertising the path to a neighbor.
>         This assumes that all ASNs used for intra data center numbering
>         are from the Private Use ranges.  The process for stripping the
> ***************
> *** 998,1005 ****
>         to the WAN Routers upstream, to provide resistance to a single-
>         link failure causing the black-holing of traffic.  To prevent
>         black-holing in the situation when all of the EBGP sessions to th=
e
> !       WAN routers fail simultaneously on a given device it is more
> !       desirable to take the "relaying" approach rather than introducing
>         the default route via complicated conditional route origination
>         schemes provided by some implementations [CONDITIONALROUTE].
>
> --- 998,1005 ----
>         to the WAN Routers upstream, to provide resistance to a single-
>         link failure causing the black-holing of traffic.  To prevent
>         black-holing in the situation when all of the EBGP sessions to th=
e
> !       WAN routers fail simultaneously on a given device, it is more
> !       desirable to readvertise the default route rather than originatin=
g
>         the default route via complicated conditional route origination
>         schemes provided by some implementations [CONDITIONALROUTE].
>
> ***************
> *** 1017,1023 ****
>      prefixes originated from within the data center in a fully routed
>      network design.  For example, a network with 2000 Tier-3 devices wil=
l
>      have at least 2000 servers subnets advertised into BGP, along with
> !    the infrastructure or other prefixes.  However, as discussed before,
>      the proposed network design does not allow for route summarization
>      due to the lack of peer links inside every tier.
>
> --- 1017,1023 ----
>      prefixes originated from within the data center in a fully routed
>      network design.  For example, a network with 2000 Tier-3 devices wil=
l
>      have at least 2000 servers subnets advertised into BGP, along with
> !    the infrastructure and link prefixes.  However, as discussed before,
>      the proposed network design does not allow for route summarization
>      due to the lack of peer links inside every tier.
>
> ***************
> *** 1028,1037 ****
>      o  Interconnect the Border Routers using a full-mesh of physical
>         links or using any other "peer-mesh" topology, such as ring or
>         hub-and-spoke.  Configure BGP accordingly on all Border Leafs to
> !       exchange network reachability information - e.g. by adding a mesh
>         of IBGP sessions.  The interconnecting peer links need to be
>         appropriately sized for traffic that will be present in the case
> !       of a device or link failure underneath the Border Routers.
>
>      o  Tier-1 devices may have additional physical links provisioned
>         toward the Border Routers (which are Tier-2 devices from the
> --- 1028,1037 ----
>      o  Interconnect the Border Routers using a full-mesh of physical
>         links or using any other "peer-mesh" topology, such as ring or
>         hub-and-spoke.  Configure BGP accordingly on all Border Leafs to
> !       exchange network reachability information, e.g., by adding a mesh
>         of IBGP sessions.  The interconnecting peer links need to be
>         appropriately sized for traffic that will be present in the case
> !       of a device or link failure in the mesh connecting the Border
> Routers.
>
>      o  Tier-1 devices may have additional physical links provisioned
>         toward the Border Routers (which are Tier-2 devices from the
> ***************
> *** 1043,1049 ****
>         device compared with the other devices in the Clos.  This also
>         reduces the number of ports available to "regular" Tier-2 switche=
s
>         and hence the number of clusters that could be interconnected via
> !       Tier-1 layer.
>
>      If any of the above options are implemented, it is possible to
>      perform route summarization at the Border Routers toward the WAN
> --- 1043,1049 ----
>         device compared with the other devices in the Clos.  This also
>         reduces the number of ports available to "regular" Tier-2 switche=
s
>         and hence the number of clusters that could be interconnected via
> !       the Tier-1 layer.
>
>      If any of the above options are implemented, it is possible to
>      perform route summarization at the Border Routers toward the WAN
> ***************
> *** 1071,1079 ****
>      ECMP is the fundamental load sharing mechanism used by a Clos
>      topology.  Effectively, every lower-tier device will use all of its
>      directly attached upper-tier devices to load share traffic destined
> !    to the same IP prefix.  Number of ECMP paths between any two Tier-3
>      devices in Clos topology equals to the number of the devices in the
> !    middle stage (Tier-1).  For example, Figure 5 illustrates the
>      topology where Tier-3 device A has four paths to reach servers X and
>      Y, via Tier-2 devices B and C and then Tier-1 devices 1, 2, 3, and 4
>      respectively.
> --- 1071,1079 ----
>      ECMP is the fundamental load sharing mechanism used by a Clos
>      topology.  Effectively, every lower-tier device will use all of its
>      directly attached upper-tier devices to load share traffic destined
> !    to the same IP prefix.  The number of ECMP paths between any two
> Tier-3
>      devices in Clos topology equals to the number of the devices in the
> !    middle stage (Tier-1).  For example, Figure 5 illustrates a
>      topology where Tier-3 device A has four paths to reach servers X and
>      Y, via Tier-2 devices B and C and then Tier-1 devices 1, 2, 3, and 4
>      respectively.
> ***************
> *** 1105,1116 ****
>
>      The ECMP requirement implies that the BGP implementation must suppor=
t
>      multipath fan-out for up to the maximum number of devices directly
> !    attached at any point in the topology in upstream or downstream
>      direction.  Normally, this number does not exceed half of the ports
>      found on a device in the topology.  For example, an ECMP fan-out of
>      32 would be required when building a Clos network using 64-port
>      devices.  The Border Routers may need to have wider fan-out to be
> !    able to connect to multitude of Tier-1 devices if route summarizatio=
n
>      at Border Router level is implemented as described in Section 5.2.5.
>      If a device's hardware does not support wider ECMP, logical link-
>      grouping (link-aggregation at layer 2) could be used to provide
> --- 1105,1116 ----
>
>      The ECMP requirement implies that the BGP implementation must suppor=
t
>      multipath fan-out for up to the maximum number of devices directly
> !    attached at any point in the topology in the upstream or downstream
>      direction.  Normally, this number does not exceed half of the ports
>      found on a device in the topology.  For example, an ECMP fan-out of
>      32 would be required when building a Clos network using 64-port
>      devices.  The Border Routers may need to have wider fan-out to be
> !    able to connect to a multitude of Tier-1 devices if route
> summarization
>      at Border Router level is implemented as described in Section 5.2.5.
>      If a device's hardware does not support wider ECMP, logical link-
>      grouping (link-aggregation at layer 2) could be used to provide
> ***************
> *** 1122,1131 ****
>   Internet-Draft    draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc       March 201=
6
>
>
> !    "hierarchical" ECMP (Layer 3 ECMP followed by Layer 2 ECMP) to
>      compensate for fan-out limitations.  Such approach, however,
>      increases the risk of flow polarization, as less entropy will be
> !    available to the second stage of ECMP.
>
>      Most BGP implementations declare paths to be equal from an ECMP
>      perspective if they match up to and including step (e) in
> --- 1122,1131 ----
>   Internet-Draft    draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc       March 201=
6
>
>
> !    "hierarchical" ECMP (Layer 3 ECMP coupled with Layer 2 ECMP) to
>      compensate for fan-out limitations.  Such approach, however,
>      increases the risk of flow polarization, as less entropy will be
> !    available at the second stage of ECMP.
>
>      Most BGP implementations declare paths to be equal from an ECMP
>      perspective if they match up to and including step (e) in
> ***************
> *** 1148,1154 ****
>      perspective of other devices, such a prefix would have BGP paths wit=
h
>      different AS_PATH attribute values, while having the same AS_PATH
>      attribute lengths.  Therefore, BGP implementations must support load
> !    sharing over above-mentioned paths.  This feature is sometimes known
>      as "multipath relax" or "multipath multiple-as" and effectively
>      allows for ECMP to be done across different neighboring ASNs if all
>      other attributes are equal as already described in the previous
> --- 1148,1154 ----
>      perspective of other devices, such a prefix would have BGP paths wit=
h
>      different AS_PATH attribute values, while having the same AS_PATH
>      attribute lengths.  Therefore, BGP implementations must support load
> !    sharing over the above-mentioned paths.  This feature is sometimes
> known
>      as "multipath relax" or "multipath multiple-as" and effectively
>      allows for ECMP to be done across different neighboring ASNs if all
>      other attributes are equal as already described in the previous
> ***************
> *** 1182,1199 ****
>
>      It is often desirable to have the hashing function used for ECMP to
>      be consistent (see [CONS-HASH]), to minimize the impact on flow to
> !    next-hop affinity changes when a next-hop is added or removed to ECM=
P
>      group.  This could be used if the network device is used as a load
>      balancer, mapping flows toward multiple destinations - in this case,
> !    losing or adding a destination will not have detrimental effect of
>      currently established flows.  One particular recommendation on
>      implementing consistent hashing is provided in [RFC2992], though
>      other implementations are possible.  This functionality could be
>      naturally combined with weighted ECMP, with the impact of the next-
>      hop changes being proportional to the weight of the given next-hop.
>      The downside of consistent hashing is increased load on hardware
> !    resource utilization, as typically more space is required to
> !    implement a consistent-hashing region.
>
>   7.  Routing Convergence Properties
>
> --- 1182,1199 ----
>
>      It is often desirable to have the hashing function used for ECMP to
>      be consistent (see [CONS-HASH]), to minimize the impact on flow to
> !    next-hop affinity changes when a next-hop is added or removed to an
> ECMP
>      group.  This could be used if the network device is used as a load
>      balancer, mapping flows toward multiple destinations - in this case,
> !    losing or adding a destination will not have a detrimental effect on
>      currently established flows.  One particular recommendation on
>      implementing consistent hashing is provided in [RFC2992], though
>      other implementations are possible.  This functionality could be
>      naturally combined with weighted ECMP, with the impact of the next-
>      hop changes being proportional to the weight of the given next-hop.
>      The downside of consistent hashing is increased load on hardware
> !    resource utilization, as typically more resources (e.g., TCAM space)
> !    are required to implement a consistent-hashing function.
>
>   7.  Routing Convergence Properties
>
> ***************
> *** 1209,1224 ****
>      driven mechanism to obtain updates on IGP state changes.  The
>      proposed routing design does not use an IGP, so the remaining
>      mechanisms that could be used for fault detection are BGP keep-alive
> !    process (or any other type of keep-alive mechanism) and link-failure
>      triggers.
>
>      Relying solely on BGP keep-alive packets may result in high
> !    convergence delays, in the order of multiple seconds (on many BGP
>      implementations the minimum configurable BGP hold timer value is
>      three seconds).  However, many BGP implementations can shut down
>      local EBGP peering sessions in response to the "link down" event for
>      the outgoing interface used for BGP peering.  This feature is
> !    sometimes called as "fast fallover".  Since links in modern data
>      centers are predominantly point-to-point fiber connections, a
>      physical interface failure is often detected in milliseconds and
>      subsequently triggers a BGP re-convergence.
> --- 1209,1224 ----
>      driven mechanism to obtain updates on IGP state changes.  The
>      proposed routing design does not use an IGP, so the remaining
>      mechanisms that could be used for fault detection are BGP keep-alive
> !    time-out (or any other type of keep-alive mechanism) and link-failur=
e
>      triggers.
>
>      Relying solely on BGP keep-alive packets may result in high
> !    convergence delays, on the order of multiple seconds (on many BGP
>      implementations the minimum configurable BGP hold timer value is
>      three seconds).  However, many BGP implementations can shut down
>      local EBGP peering sessions in response to the "link down" event for
>      the outgoing interface used for BGP peering.  This feature is
> !    sometimes called "fast fallover".  Since links in modern data
>      centers are predominantly point-to-point fiber connections, a
>      physical interface failure is often detected in milliseconds and
>      subsequently triggers a BGP re-convergence.
> ***************
> *** 1236,1242 ****
>
>      Alternatively, some platforms may support Bidirectional Forwarding
>      Detection (BFD) [RFC5880] to allow for sub-second failure detection
> !    and fault signaling to the BGP process.  However, use of either of
>      these presents additional requirements to vendor software and
>      possibly hardware, and may contradict REQ1.  Until recently with
>      [RFC7130], BFD also did not allow detection of a single member link
> --- 1236,1242 ----
>
>      Alternatively, some platforms may support Bidirectional Forwarding
>      Detection (BFD) [RFC5880] to allow for sub-second failure detection
> !    and fault signaling to the BGP process.  However, the use of either =
of
>      these presents additional requirements to vendor software and
>      possibly hardware, and may contradict REQ1.  Until recently with
>      [RFC7130], BFD also did not allow detection of a single member link
> ***************
> *** 1245,1251 ****
>
>   7.2.  Event Propagation Timing
>
> !    In the proposed design the impact of BGP Minimum Route Advertisement
>      Interval (MRAI) timer (See section 9.2.1.1 of [RFC4271]) should be
>      considered.  Per the standard it is required for BGP implementations
>      to space out consecutive BGP UPDATE messages by at least MRAI
> --- 1245,1251 ----
>
>   7.2.  Event Propagation Timing
>
> !    In the proposed design the impact of the BGP Minimum Route
> Advertisement
>      Interval (MRAI) timer (See section 9.2.1.1 of [RFC4271]) should be
>      considered.  Per the standard it is required for BGP implementations
>      to space out consecutive BGP UPDATE messages by at least MRAI
> ***************
> *** 1258,1270 ****
>      In a Clos topology each EBGP speaker typically has either one path
>      (Tier-2 devices don't accept paths from other Tier-2 in the same
>      cluster due to same ASN) or N paths for the same prefix, where N is =
a
> !    significantly large number, e.g.  N=3D32 (the ECMP fan-out to the ne=
xt
>      Tier).  Therefore, if a link fails to another device from which a
> !    path is received there is either no backup path at all (e.g. from
>      perspective of a Tier-2 switch losing link to a Tier-3 device), or
> !    the backup is readily available in BGP Loc-RIB (e.g. from perspectiv=
e
>      of a Tier-2 device losing link to a Tier-1 switch).  In the former
> !    case, the BGP withdrawal announcement will propagate un-delayed and
>      trigger re-convergence on affected devices.  In the latter case, the
>      best-path will be re-evaluated and the local ECMP group correspondin=
g
>      to the new next-hop set changed.  If the BGP path was the best-path
> --- 1258,1270 ----
>      In a Clos topology each EBGP speaker typically has either one path
>      (Tier-2 devices don't accept paths from other Tier-2 in the same
>      cluster due to same ASN) or N paths for the same prefix, where N is =
a
> !    significantly large number, e.g.,  N=3D32 (the ECMP fan-out to the n=
ext
>      Tier).  Therefore, if a link fails to another device from which a
> !    path is received there is either no backup path at all (e.g., from t=
he
>      perspective of a Tier-2 switch losing link to a Tier-3 device), or
> !    the backup is readily available in BGP Loc-RIB (e.g., from perspecti=
ve
>      of a Tier-2 device losing link to a Tier-1 switch).  In the former
> !    case, the BGP withdrawal announcement will propagate without delay a=
nd
>      trigger re-convergence on affected devices.  In the latter case, the
>      best-path will be re-evaluated and the local ECMP group correspondin=
g
>      to the new next-hop set changed.  If the BGP path was the best-path
> ***************
> *** 1279,1285 ****
>      situation when a link between Tier-3 and Tier-2 device fails, the
>      Tier-2 device will send BGP UPDATE messages to all upstream Tier-1
>      devices, withdrawing the affected prefixes.  The Tier-1 devices, in
> !    turn, will relay those messages to all downstream Tier-2 devices
>      (except for the originator).  Tier-2 devices other than the one
>      originating the UPDATE should then wait for ALL upstream Tier-1
>
> --- 1279,1285 ----
>      situation when a link between Tier-3 and Tier-2 device fails, the
>      Tier-2 device will send BGP UPDATE messages to all upstream Tier-1
>      devices, withdrawing the affected prefixes.  The Tier-1 devices, in
> !    turn, will relay these messages to all downstream Tier-2 devices
>      (except for the originator).  Tier-2 devices other than the one
>      originating the UPDATE should then wait for ALL upstream Tier-1
>
> ***************
> *** 1307,1313 ****
>      features that vendors include to reduce the control plane impact of
>      rapidly flapping prefixes.  However, due to issues described with
>      false positives in these implementations especially under such
> !    "dispersion" events, it is not recommended to turn this feature on i=
n
>      this design.  More background and issues with "route flap dampening"
>      and possible implementation changes that could affect this are well
>      described in [RFC7196].
> --- 1307,1313 ----
>      features that vendors include to reduce the control plane impact of
>      rapidly flapping prefixes.  However, due to issues described with
>      false positives in these implementations especially under such
> !    "dispersion" events, it is not recommended to enable this feature in
>      this design.  More background and issues with "route flap dampening"
>      and possible implementation changes that could affect this are well
>      described in [RFC7196].
> ***************
> *** 1316,1324 ****
>
>      A network is declared to converge in response to a failure once all
>      devices within the failure impact scope are notified of the event an=
d
> !    have re-calculated their RIB's and consequently updated their FIB's.
>      Larger failure impact scope typically means slower convergence since
> !    more devices have to be notified, and additionally results in a less
>      stable network.  In this section we describe BGP's advantages over
>      link-state routing protocols in reducing failure impact scope for a
>      Clos topology.
> --- 1316,1324 ----
>
>      A network is declared to converge in response to a failure once all
>      devices within the failure impact scope are notified of the event an=
d
> !    have re-calculated their RIBs and consequently updated their FIBs.
>      Larger failure impact scope typically means slower convergence since
> !    more devices have to be notified, and results in a less
>      stable network.  In this section we describe BGP's advantages over
>      link-state routing protocols in reducing failure impact scope for a
>      Clos topology.
> ***************
> *** 1327,1335 ****
>      the best path from the point of view of the local router is sent to
>      neighbors.  As such, some failures are masked if the local node can
>      immediately find a backup path and does not have to send any updates
> !    further.  Notice that in the worst case ALL devices in a data center
>      topology have to either withdraw a prefix completely or update the
> !    ECMP groups in the FIB.  However, many failures will not result in
>      such a wide impact.  There are two main failure types where impact
>      scope is reduced:
>
> --- 1327,1335 ----
>      the best path from the point of view of the local router is sent to
>      neighbors.  As such, some failures are masked if the local node can
>      immediately find a backup path and does not have to send any updates
> !    further.  Notice that in the worst case, all devices in a data cente=
r
>      topology have to either withdraw a prefix completely or update the
> !    ECMP groups in their FIBs.  However, many failures will not result i=
n
>      such a wide impact.  There are two main failure types where impact
>      scope is reduced:
>
> ***************
> *** 1357,1367 ****
>
>      o  Failure of a Tier-1 device: In this case, all Tier-2 devices
>         directly attached to the failed node will have to update their
> !       ECMP groups for all IP prefixes from non-local cluster.  The
>         Tier-3 devices are once again not involved in the re-convergence
>         process, but may receive "implicit withdraws" as described above.
>
> !    Even though in case of such failures multiple IP prefixes will have
>      to be reprogrammed in the FIB, it is worth noting that ALL of these
>      prefixes share a single ECMP group on Tier-2 device.  Therefore, in
>      the case of implementations with a hierarchical FIB, only a single
> --- 1357,1367 ----
>
>      o  Failure of a Tier-1 device: In this case, all Tier-2 devices
>         directly attached to the failed node will have to update their
> !       ECMP groups for all IP prefixes from a non-local cluster.  The
>         Tier-3 devices are once again not involved in the re-convergence
>         process, but may receive "implicit withdraws" as described above.
>
> !    Even in the case of such failures, multiple IP prefixes will have
>      to be reprogrammed in the FIB, it is worth noting that ALL of these
>      prefixes share a single ECMP group on Tier-2 device.  Therefore, in
>      the case of implementations with a hierarchical FIB, only a single
> ***************
> *** 1375,1381 ****
>      possible with the proposed design, since using this technique may
>      create routing black-holes as mentioned previously.  Therefore, the
>      worst control plane failure impact scope is the network as a whole,
> !    for instance in a case of a link failure between Tier-2 and Tier-3
>      devices.  The amount of impacted prefixes in this case would be much
>      less than in the case of a failure in the upper layers of a Clos
>      network topology.  The property of having such large failure scope i=
s
> --- 1375,1381 ----
>      possible with the proposed design, since using this technique may
>      create routing black-holes as mentioned previously.  Therefore, the
>      worst control plane failure impact scope is the network as a whole,
> !    for instance in thecase of a link failure between Tier-2 and Tier-3
>      devices.  The amount of impacted prefixes in this case would be much
>      less than in the case of a failure in the upper layers of a Clos
>      network topology.  The property of having such large failure scope i=
s
> ***************
> *** 1384,1397 ****
>
>   7.5.  Routing Micro-Loops
>
> !    When a downstream device, e.g.  Tier-2 device, loses all paths for a
>      prefix, it normally has the default route pointing toward the
>      upstream device, in this case the Tier-1 device.  As a result, it is
> !    possible to get in the situation when Tier-2 switch loses a prefix,
> !    but Tier-1 switch still has the path pointing to the Tier-2 device,
> !    which results in transient micro-loop, since Tier-1 switch will keep
>      passing packets to the affected prefix back to Tier-2 device, and
> !    Tier-2 will bounce it back again using the default route.  This
>      micro-loop will last for the duration of time it takes the upstream
>      device to fully update its forwarding tables.
>
> --- 1384,1397 ----
>
>   7.5.  Routing Micro-Loops
>
> !    When a downstream device, e.g.,  Tier-2 device, loses all paths for =
a
>      prefix, it normally has the default route pointing toward the
>      upstream device, in this case the Tier-1 device.  As a result, it is
> !    possible to get in the situation where a Tier-2 switch loses a prefi=
x,
> !    but a Tier-1 switch still has the path pointing to the Tier-2 device=
,
> !    which results in transient micro-loop, since the Tier-1 switch will
> keep
>      passing packets to the affected prefix back to Tier-2 device, and
> !    the Tier-2 will bounce it back again using the default route.  This
>      micro-loop will last for the duration of time it takes the upstream
>      device to fully update its forwarding tables.
>
> ***************
> *** 1402,1408 ****
>   Internet-Draft    draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc       March 201=
6
>
>
> !    To minimize impact of the micro-loops, Tier-2 and Tier-1 switches ca=
n
>      be configured with static "discard" or "null" routes that will be
>      more specific than the default route for prefixes missing during
>      network convergence.  For Tier-2 switches, the discard route should
> --- 1402,1408 ----
>   Internet-Draft    draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc       March 201=
6
>
>
> !    To minimize the impact of such micro-loops, Tier-2 and Tier-1
> switches can
>      be configured with static "discard" or "null" routes that will be
>      more specific than the default route for prefixes missing during
>      network convergence.  For Tier-2 switches, the discard route should
> ***************
> *** 1417,1423 ****
>
>   8.1.  Third-party Route Injection
>
> !    BGP allows for a "third-party", i.e. directly attached, BGP speaker
>      to inject routes anywhere in the network topology, meeting REQ5.
>      This can be achieved by peering via a multihop BGP session with some
>      or even all devices in the topology.  Furthermore, BGP diverse path
> --- 1417,1423 ----
>
>   8.1.  Third-party Route Injection
>
> !    BGP allows for a "third-party", i.e., directly attached, BGP speaker
>      to inject routes anywhere in the network topology, meeting REQ5.
>      This can be achieved by peering via a multihop BGP session with some
>      or even all devices in the topology.  Furthermore, BGP diverse path
> ***************
> *** 1427,1433 ****
>      implementation.  Unfortunately, in many implementations ADD-PATH has
>      been found to only support IBGP properly due to the use cases it was
>      originally optimized for, which limits the "third-party" peering to
> !    IBGP only, if the feature is used.
>
>      To implement route injection in the proposed design, a third-party
>      BGP speaker may peer with Tier-3 and Tier-1 switches, injecting the
> --- 1427,1433 ----
>      implementation.  Unfortunately, in many implementations ADD-PATH has
>      been found to only support IBGP properly due to the use cases it was
>      originally optimized for, which limits the "third-party" peering to
> !    IBGP only.
>
>      To implement route injection in the proposed design, a third-party
>      BGP speaker may peer with Tier-3 and Tier-1 switches, injecting the
> ***************
> *** 1442,1453 ****
>      As mentioned previously, route summarization is not possible within
>      the proposed Clos topology since it makes the network susceptible to
>      route black-holing under single link failures.  The main problem is
> !    the limited number of redundant paths between network elements, e.g.
>      there is only a single path between any pair of Tier-1 and Tier-3
>      devices.  However, some operators may find route aggregation
>      desirable to improve control plane stability.
>
> !    If planning on using any technique to summarize within the topology
>      modeling of the routing behavior and potential for black-holing
>      should be done not only for single or multiple link failures, but
>
> --- 1442,1453 ----
>      As mentioned previously, route summarization is not possible within
>      the proposed Clos topology since it makes the network susceptible to
>      route black-holing under single link failures.  The main problem is
> !    the limited number of redundant paths between network elements, e.g.=
,
>      there is only a single path between any pair of Tier-1 and Tier-3
>      devices.  However, some operators may find route aggregation
>      desirable to improve control plane stability.
>
> !    If any technique to summarize within the topology is planned,
>      modeling of the routing behavior and potential for black-holing
>      should be done not only for single or multiple link failures, but
>
> ***************
> *** 1458,1468 ****
>   Internet-Draft    draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc       March 201=
6
>
>
> !    also fiber pathway failures or optical domain failures if the
>      topology extends beyond a physical location.  Simple modeling can be
>      done by checking the reachability on devices doing summarization
>      under the condition of a link or pathway failure between a set of
> !    devices in every tier as well as to the WAN routers if external
>      connectivity is present.
>
>      Route summarization would be possible with a small modification to
> --- 1458,1468 ----
>   Internet-Draft    draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc       March 201=
6
>
>
> !    also fiber pathway failures or optical domain failures when the
>      topology extends beyond a physical location.  Simple modeling can be
>      done by checking the reachability on devices doing summarization
>      under the condition of a link or pathway failure between a set of
> !    devices in every tier as well as to the WAN routers when external
>      connectivity is present.
>
>      Route summarization would be possible with a small modification to
> ***************
> *** 1519,1544 ****
>      cluster from Tier-2 devices since each of them has only a single pat=
h
>      down to this prefix.  It would require dual-homed servers to
>      accomplish that.  Also note that this design is only resilient to
> !    single link failure.  It is possible for a double link failure to
>      isolate a Tier-2 device from all paths toward a specific Tier-3
>      device, thus causing a routing black-hole.
>
> !    A result of the proposed topology modification would be reduction of
>      Tier-1 devices port capacity.  This limits the maximum number of
>      attached Tier-2 devices and therefore will limit the maximum DC
>      network size.  A larger network would require different Tier-1
>      devices that have higher port density to implement this change.
>
>      Another problem is traffic re-balancing under link failures.  Since
> !    three are two paths from Tier-1 to Tier-3, a failure of the link
>      between Tier-1 and Tier-2 switch would result in all traffic that wa=
s
>      taking the failed link to switch to the remaining path.  This will
> !    result in doubling of link utilization on the remaining link.
>
>   8.2.2.  Simple Virtual Aggregation
>
>      A completely different approach to route summarization is possible,
> !    provided that the main goal is to reduce the FIB pressure, while
>      allowing the control plane to disseminate full routing information.
>      Firstly, it could be easily noted that in many cases multiple
>      prefixes, some of which are less specific, share the same set of the
> --- 1519,1544 ----
>      cluster from Tier-2 devices since each of them has only a single pat=
h
>      down to this prefix.  It would require dual-homed servers to
>      accomplish that.  Also note that this design is only resilient to
> !    single link failures.  It is possible for a double link failure to
>      isolate a Tier-2 device from all paths toward a specific Tier-3
>      device, thus causing a routing black-hole.
>
> !    A result of the proposed topology modification would be a reduction =
of
>      Tier-1 devices port capacity.  This limits the maximum number of
>      attached Tier-2 devices and therefore will limit the maximum DC
>      network size.  A larger network would require different Tier-1
>      devices that have higher port density to implement this change.
>
>      Another problem is traffic re-balancing under link failures.  Since
> !    there are two paths from Tier-1 to Tier-3, a failure of the link
>      between Tier-1 and Tier-2 switch would result in all traffic that wa=
s
>      taking the failed link to switch to the remaining path.  This will
> !    result in doubling the link utilization of the remaining link.
>
>   8.2.2.  Simple Virtual Aggregation
>
>      A completely different approach to route summarization is possible,
> !    provided that the main goal is to reduce the FIB size, while
>      allowing the control plane to disseminate full routing information.
>      Firstly, it could be easily noted that in many cases multiple
>      prefixes, some of which are less specific, share the same set of the
> ***************
> *** 1550,1563 ****
>      [RFC6769] and only install the least specific route in the FIB,
>      ignoring more specific routes if they share the same next-hop set.
>      For example, under normal network conditions, only the default route
> !    need to be programmed into FIB.
>
>      Furthermore, if the Tier-2 devices are configured with summary
> !    prefixes covering all of their attached Tier-3 device's prefixes the
>      same logic could be applied in Tier-1 devices as well, and, by
>      induction to Tier-2/Tier-3 switches in different clusters.  These
>      summary routes should still allow for more specific prefixes to leak
> !    to Tier-1 devices, to enable for detection of mismatches in the next=
-
>      hop sets if a particular link fails, changing the next-hop set for a
>      specific prefix.
>
> --- 1550,1563 ----
>      [RFC6769] and only install the least specific route in the FIB,
>      ignoring more specific routes if they share the same next-hop set.
>      For example, under normal network conditions, only the default route
> !    needs to be programmed into FIB.
>
>      Furthermore, if the Tier-2 devices are configured with summary
> !    prefixes covering all of their attached Tier-3 device's prefixes, th=
e
>      same logic could be applied in Tier-1 devices as well, and, by
>      induction to Tier-2/Tier-3 switches in different clusters.  These
>      summary routes should still allow for more specific prefixes to leak
> !    to Tier-1 devices, to enable detection of mismatches in the next-
>      hop sets if a particular link fails, changing the next-hop set for a
>      specific prefix.
>
> ***************
> *** 1571,1584 ****
>
>
>      Re-stating once again, this technique does not reduce the amount of
> !    control plane state (i.e.  BGP UPDATEs/BGP LocRIB sizing), but only
> !    allows for more efficient FIB utilization, by spotting more specific
> !    prefixes that share their next-hops with less specifics.
>
>   8.3.  ICMP Unreachable Message Masquerading
>
>      This section discusses some operational aspects of not advertising
> !    point-to-point link subnets into BGP, as previously outlined as an
>      option in Section 5.2.3.  The operational impact of this decision
>      could be seen when using the well-known "traceroute" tool.
>      Specifically, IP addresses displayed by the tool will be the link's
> --- 1571,1585 ----
>
>
>      Re-stating once again, this technique does not reduce the amount of
> !    control plane state (i.e.,  BGP UPDATEs/BGP Loc-RIB size), but only
> !    allows for more efficient FIB utilization, by detecting more specifi=
c
> !    prefixes that share their next-hop set with a subsuming less specifi=
c
> !    prefix.
>
>   8.3.  ICMP Unreachable Message Masquerading
>
>      This section discusses some operational aspects of not advertising
> !    point-to-point link subnets into BGP, as previously identified as an
>      option in Section 5.2.3.  The operational impact of this decision
>      could be seen when using the well-known "traceroute" tool.
>      Specifically, IP addresses displayed by the tool will be the link's
> ***************
> *** 1587,1605 ****
>      complicated.
>
>      One way to overcome this limitation is by using the DNS subsystem to
> !    create the "reverse" entries for the IP addresses of the same device
> !    pointing to the same name.  The connectivity then can be made by
> !    resolving this name to the "primary" IP address of the devices, e.g.
>      its Loopback interface, which is always advertised into BGP.
>      However, this creates a dependency on the DNS subsystem, which may b=
e
>      unavailable during an outage.
>
>      Another option is to make the network device perform IP address
>      masquerading, that is rewriting the source IP addresses of the
> !    appropriate ICMP messages sent off of the device with the "primary"
>      IP address of the device.  Specifically, the ICMP Destination
>      Unreachable Message (type 3) codes 3 (port unreachable) and ICMP Tim=
e
> !    Exceeded (type 11) code 0, which are involved in proper working of
>      the "traceroute" tool.  With this modification, the "traceroute"
>      probes sent to the devices will always be sent back with the
>      "primary" IP address as the source, allowing the operator to discove=
r
> --- 1588,1606 ----
>      complicated.
>
>      One way to overcome this limitation is by using the DNS subsystem to
> !    create the "reverse" entries for these point-to-point IP addresses
> pointing
> !    to a the same name as the loopback address.  The connectivity then
> can be made by
> !    resolving this name to the "primary" IP address of the devices, e.g.=
,
>      its Loopback interface, which is always advertised into BGP.
>      However, this creates a dependency on the DNS subsystem, which may b=
e
>      unavailable during an outage.
>
>      Another option is to make the network device perform IP address
>      masquerading, that is rewriting the source IP addresses of the
> !    appropriate ICMP messages sent by the device with the "primary"
>      IP address of the device.  Specifically, the ICMP Destination
>      Unreachable Message (type 3) codes 3 (port unreachable) and ICMP Tim=
e
> !    Exceeded (type 11) code 0, which are required for correct operation =
of
>      the "traceroute" tool.  With this modification, the "traceroute"
>      probes sent to the devices will always be sent back with the
>      "primary" IP address as the source, allowing the operator to discove=
r
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtgwg mailing list
> rtgwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
>

--001a1141b26696bc01053153cfed
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Acee,<div><br></div><div>Thank you very much for your r=
eview.</div><div><br></div><div>Authors, could you please respond soon?=C2=
=A0 I am hoping to get this out to IETF Last Call</div><div>by Thursday - a=
nd on the telechat for May 19. =C2=A0 =C2=A0That depends on timely updates =
from</div><div>the authors and shepherd.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</=
div><div>Alia</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Ac=
ee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.<br=
>
The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related<br>
drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes<b=
r>
on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to<b=
r>
the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate,<br>
please see =E2=80=8B<a href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wik=
i/RtgDir" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/a=
rea/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</a><br>
<br>
Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it<br=
>
would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last<=
br>
Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through<br>
discussion or by updating the draft.<br>
<br>
Document: draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc-09.txt<br>
Reviewer: Acee Lindem<br>
Review Date: 4/25/16<br>
IETF LC End Date: Not started<br>
Intended Status: Informational<br>
<br>
Summary:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document is basically ready for publication, but has som=
e minor<br>
issues and nits that should be resolved prior to publication.<br>
<br>
Comments:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The document starts with the requirements for an MSDC routing=
 and then<br>
provides an overview of Clos data topologies and data center network<br>
design. This overview attempts to cover a lot of a material in a very<br>
small amount of text. While not completely successful, the overview<br>
provides a lot of good information and references. The bulk of the<br>
document covers the usage of EBGP as the sole data center routing protocol<=
br>
and other aspects of the routing design including ECMP, summarization<br>
issues, and convergence. These sections provide a very good guide for<br>
using EBGP in a Clos data center and an excellent discussion of the<br>
deployment issues (based on real deployment experience).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The technical content of the document is excellent. The reada=
bility<br>
could be improved by breaking up some of the run-on sentences and with the<=
br>
suggested editorial changes (see Nits below).<br>
<br>
<br>
Major Issues:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have no major issues with the document.<br>
<br>
Minor Issues:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 4.2: Can an informative reference be added for Direct=
 Server<br>
Return (DSR)?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 5.2.4 and 7.4: Define precisely what is meant by &quo=
t;scale-out&quot;<br>
topology somewhere in the document.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 5.2.5: Can you add a backward reference to the discus=
sion of<br>
&quot;lack of peer links inside every peer=E2=80=9D? Also, it would be good=
 to describe<br>
how this would allow for summarization and under what failure conditions.<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 7.4: Should you add a reference to<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-pic-00.txt" rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-=
pic-00.txt</a> to the penultimate<br>
paragraph in this section?<br>
<br>
Nits:<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 143,149 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network stability so that a small group of people can e=
ffectively<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0support a significantly sized network.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Experimentation and extensive testing has shown that Externa=
l BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(EBGP) [RFC4271] is well suited as a stand-alone routin=
g protocol for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these type of data center applications.=C2=A0 This is i=
n contrast with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0more traditional DC designs, which may se simple tree t=
opologies and<br>
--- 143,149 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network stability so that a sall group of people can ef=
fectively<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0support a significantly sized network.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Experimentation and extensive testing have shown that Extern=
al BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(EBGP) [RFC4271] is well suited as a stand-alone routin=
g protocol for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these type of data center applications.=C2=A0 This is i=
n contrast with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0more traditional DC designs, which may use simple tree =
topologies and<br>
***************<br>
*** 178,191 ****<br>
=C2=A0 2.1.=C2=A0 Bandwidth and Traffic Patterns<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The primary requirement when building an interconnectio=
n network for<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 large number of servers is to accommodate application bandwi=
dth and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0latency requirements.=C2=A0 Until recently it was quite=
 common to see the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0majority of traffic entering and leaving the data cente=
r, commonly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0referred to as &quot;north-south&quot; traffic.=C2=A0 T=
raditional &quot;tree&quot; topologies<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0were sufficient to accommodate such flows, even with hi=
gh<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0oversubscription ratios between the layers of the netwo=
rk.=C2=A0 If more<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bandwidth was required, it was added by &quot;scaling u=
p&quot; the network<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 elements, e.g. by upgrading the device&#39;s linecards or fa=
brics or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0replacing the device with one with higher port density.=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Today many large-scale data centers host applications g=
enerating<br>
--- 178,191 ----<br>
=C2=A0 2.1.=C2=A0 Bandwidth and Traffic Patterns<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The primary requirement when building an interconnectio=
n network for<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a large number of servers is to accommodate application band=
width and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0latency requirements.=C2=A0 Until recently it was quite=
 common to see the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0majority of traffic entering and leaving the data cente=
r, commonly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0referred to as &quot;north-south&quot; traffic.=C2=A0 T=
raditional &quot;tree&quot; topologies<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0were sufficient to accommodate such flows, even with hi=
gh<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0oversubscription ratios between the layers of the netwo=
rk.=C2=A0 If more<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bandwidth was required, it was added by &quot;scaling u=
p&quot; the network<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 elements, e.g., by upgrading the device&#39;s linecards or f=
abrics or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0replacing the device with one with higher port density.=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Today many large-scale data centers host applications g=
enerating<br>
***************<br>
*** 195,201 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[HADOOP], massive data replication between clusters nee=
ded by certain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0applications, or virtual machine migrations.=C2=A0 Scal=
ing traditional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tree topologies to match these bandwidth demands become=
s either too<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 expensive or impossible due to physical limitations, e.g. po=
rt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0density in a switch.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 2.2.=C2=A0 CAPEX Minimization<br>
--- 195,201 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[HADOOP], massive data replication between clusters nee=
ded by certain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0applications, or virtual machine migrations.=C2=A0 Scal=
ing traditional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tree topologies to match these bandwidth demands become=
s either too<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 expensive or impossible due to physical limitations, e.g., p=
ort<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0density in a switch.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 2.2.=C2=A0 CAPEX Minimization<br>
***************<br>
*** 209,215 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Unifying all network elements, preferably using=
 the same hardware<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type or even the same device.=C2=A0 This allows=
 for volume pricing on<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bulk purchases and reduced maintenance and spar=
ing costs.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Driving costs down using competitive pressures,=
 by introducing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple network equipment vendors.<br>
--- 209,215 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Unifying all network elements, preferably using=
 the same hardware<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type or even the same device.=C2=A0 This allows=
 for volume pricing on<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bulk purchases and reduced maintenance and inve=
ntory costs.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Driving costs down using competitive pressures,=
 by introducing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple network equipment vendors.<br>
***************<br>
*** 234,244 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0minimizes software issue-related failures.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An important aspect of Operational Expenditure (OPEX) m=
inimization is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reducing size of failure domains in the network.=C2=A0 Ether=
net networks<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0are known to be susceptible to broadcast or unicast tra=
ffic storms<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that can have a dramatic impact on network performance =
and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0availability.=C2=A0 The use of a fully routed design si=
gnificantly reduces<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the size of the data plane failure domains - i.e. limits the=
m to the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0lowest level in the network hierarchy.=C2=A0 However, s=
uch designs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0introduce the problem of distributed control plane fail=
ures.=C2=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0observation calls for simpler and less control plane pr=
otocols to<br>
--- 234,244 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0minimizes software issue-related failures.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An important aspect of Operational Expenditure (OPEX) m=
inimization is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reducing the size of failure domains in the network.=C2=A0 E=
thernet<br>
networks<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0are known to be susceptible to broadcast or unicast tra=
ffic storms<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that can have a dramatic impact on network performance =
and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0availability.=C2=A0 The use of a fully routed design si=
gnificantly reduces<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the size of the data plane failure domains, i.e., limits the=
m to the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0lowest level in the network hierarchy.=C2=A0 However, s=
uch designs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0introduce the problem of distributed control plane fail=
ures.=C2=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0observation calls for simpler and less control plane pr=
otocols to<br>
***************<br>
*** 253,259 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0performed by network devices.=C2=A0 Traditionally, load=
 balancers are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0deployed as dedicated devices in the traffic forwarding=
 path.=C2=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0problem arises in scaling load balancers under growing =
traffic<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 demand.=C2=A0 A preferable solution would be able to scale l=
oad balancing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0layer horizontally, by adding more of the uniform nodes=
 and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0distributing incoming traffic across these nodes.=C2=A0=
 In situations like<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this, an ideal choice would be to use network infrastru=
cture itself<br>
--- 253,259 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0performed by network devices.=C2=A0 Traditionally, load=
 balancers are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0deployed as dedicated devices in the traffic forwarding=
 path.=C2=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0problem arises in scaling load balancers under growing =
traffic<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 demand.=C2=A0 A preferable solution would be able to scale t=
he load<br>
balancing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0layer horizontally, by adding more of the uniform nodes=
 and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0distributing incoming traffic across these nodes.=C2=A0=
 In situations like<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this, an ideal choice would be to use network infrastru=
cture itself<br>
***************<br>
*** 305,311 ****<br>
=C2=A0 3.1.=C2=A0 Traditional DC Topology<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the networking industry, a common design choice for =
data centers<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 typically look like a (upside down) tree with redundant upli=
nks and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0three layers of hierarchy namely; core, aggregation/dis=
tribution and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0access layers (see Figure 1).=C2=A0 To accommodate band=
width demands, each<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0higher layer, from server towards DC egress or WAN, has=
 higher port<br>
--- 305,311 ----<br>
=C2=A0 3.1.=C2=A0 Traditional DC Topology<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the networking industry, a common design choice for =
data centers<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 typically look like an (upside down) tree with redundant upl=
inks and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0three layers of hierarchy namely; core, aggregation/dis=
tribution and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0access layers (see Figure 1).=C2=A0 To accommodate band=
width demands, each<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0higher layer, from server towards DC egress or WAN, has=
 higher port<br>
***************<br>
*** 373,379 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology, sometimes called &quot;fat-tree&quot; (see, f=
or example, [INTERCON]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and [ALFARES2008]).=C2=A0 This topology features an odd=
 number of stages<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(sometimes known as dimensions) and is commonly made of=
 uniform<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 elements, e.g. network switches with the same port count.=C2=
=A0 Therefore,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the choice of folded Clos topology satisfies REQ1 and f=
acilitates<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0REQ2.=C2=A0 See Figure 2 below for an example of a fold=
ed 3-stage Clos<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology (3 stages counting Tier-2 stage twice, when tr=
acing a packet<br>
--- 373,379 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology, sometimes called &quot;fat-tree&quot; (see, f=
or example, [INTERCON]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and [ALFARES2008]).=C2=A0 This topology features an odd=
 number of stages<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(sometimes known as dimensions) and is commonly made of=
 uniform<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 elements, e.g., network switches with the same port count.=
=C2=A0 Therefore,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the choice of folded Clos topology satisfies REQ1 and f=
acilitates<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0REQ2.=C2=A0 See Figure 2 below for an example of a fold=
ed 3-stage Clos<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology (3 stages counting Tier-2 stage twice, when tr=
acing a packet<br>
***************<br>
*** 460,466 ****<br>
=C2=A0 3.2.3.=C2=A0 Scaling the Clos topology<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A Clos topology can be scaled either by increasing netw=
ork element<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 port density or adding more stages, e.g. moving to a 5-stage=
 Clos, as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0illustrated in Figure 3 below:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tier-1<b=
r>
--- 460,466 ----<br>
=C2=A0 3.2.3.=C2=A0 Scaling the Clos topology<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A Clos topology can be scaled either by increasing netw=
ork element<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 port density or adding more stages, e.g., moving to a 5-stag=
e Clos, as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0illustrated in Figure 3 below:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tier-1<b=
r>
***************<br>
*** 523,529 ****<br>
=C2=A0 3.2.4.=C2=A0 Managing the Size of Clos Topology Tiers<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If a data center network size is small, it is possible =
to reduce the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 number of switches in Tier-1 or Tier-2 of Clos topology by a=
 factor<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of two.=C2=A0 To understand how this could be done, tak=
e Tier-1 as an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example.=C2=A0 Every Tier-2 device connects to a single=
 group of Tier-1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 If half of the ports on each of the Tier=
-1 devices are not<br>
--- 523,529 ----<br>
=C2=A0 3.2.4.=C2=A0 Managing the Size of Clos Topology Tiers<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If a data center network size is small, it is possible =
to reduce the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 number of switches in Tier-1 or Tier-2 of a Clos topology by=
 a factor<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of two.=C2=A0 To understand how this could be done, tak=
e Tier-1 as an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0example.=C2=A0 Every Tier-2 device connects to a single=
 group of Tier-1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 If half of the ports on each of the Tier=
-1 devices are not<br>
***************<br>
*** 574,580 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originally defined in [IEEE8021D-1990] for loop free to=
pology<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0creation, typically utilizing variants of the tradition=
al DC topology<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described in Section 3.1.=C2=A0 At the time, many DC sw=
itches either did<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not support Layer 3 routed protocols or supported it with ad=
ditional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0licensing fees, which played a part in the design choic=
e.=C2=A0 Although<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many enhancements have been made through the introducti=
on of Rapid<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Spanning Tree Protocol (RSTP) in the latest revision of=
<br>
--- 574,580 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originally defined in [IEEE8021D-1990] for loop free to=
pology<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0creation, typically utilizing variants of the tradition=
al DC topology<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described in Section 3.1.=C2=A0 At the time, many DC sw=
itches either did<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not support Layer 3 routing protocols or supported them with=
<br>
additional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0licensing fees, which played a part in the design choic=
e.=C2=A0 Although<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many enhancements have been made through the introducti=
on of Rapid<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Spanning Tree Protocol (RSTP) in the latest revision of=
<br>
***************<br>
*** 599,605 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as the backup for loop prevention.=C2=A0 The major down=
sides of this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0approach are the lack of ability to scale linearly past=
 two in most<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementations, lack of standards based implementation=
s, and added<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 failure domain risk of keeping state between the devices.<br=
>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It should be noted that building large, horizontally sc=
alable, Layer<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02 only networks without STP is possible recently throug=
h the<br>
--- 599,605 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as the backup for loop prevention.=C2=A0 The major down=
sides of this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0approach are the lack of ability to scale linearly past=
 two in most<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementations, lack of standards based implementation=
s, and added<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the failure domain risk of syncing state between the devices=
.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It should be noted that building large, horizontally sc=
alable, Layer<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02 only networks without STP is possible recently throug=
h the<br>
***************<br>
*** 621,631 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Finally, neither the base TRILL specification nor the M=
-LAG approach<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0totally eliminate the problem of the shared broadcast d=
omain, that is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0so detrimental to the operations of any Layer 2, Ethern=
et based<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 solutions.=C2=A0 Later TRILL extensions have been proposed t=
o solve the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this problem statement primarily based on the approache=
s outlined in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC7067], but this even further limits the number of a=
vailable<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 interoperable implementations that can be used to build a fa=
bric,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 therefore TRILL based designs have issues meeting REQ2, REQ3=
, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0REQ4.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 4.2.=C2=A0 Hybrid L2/L3 Designs<br>
--- 621,631 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Finally, neither the base TRILL specification nor the M=
-LAG approach<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0totally eliminate the problem of the shared broadcast d=
omain, that is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0so detrimental to the operations of any Layer 2, Ethern=
et based<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 solution.=C2=A0 Later TRILL extensions have been proposed to=
 solve the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this problem statement primarily based on the approache=
s outlined in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC7067], but this even further limits the number of a=
vailable<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 interoperable implementations that can be used to build a fa=
bric.<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Therefore, TRILL based designs have issues meeting REQ2, REQ=
3, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0REQ4.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 4.2.=C2=A0 Hybrid L2/L3 Designs<br>
***************<br>
*** 635,641 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in either the Tier-1 or Tier-2 parts of the network and=
 dividing the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Layer 2 domain into numerous, smaller domains.=C2=A0 Th=
is design has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0allowed data centers to scale up, but at the cost of co=
mplexity in<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the network managing multiple protocols.=C2=A0 For the follo=
wing reasons,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0operators have retained Layer 2 in either the access (T=
ier-3) or both<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0access and aggregation (Tier-3 and Tier-2) parts of the=
 network:<br>
<br>
--- 635,641 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in either the Tier-1 or Tier-2 parts of the network and=
 dividing the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Layer 2 domain into numerous, smaller domains.=C2=A0 Th=
is design has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0allowed data centers to scale up, but at the cost of co=
mplexity in<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the managing multiple network protocols.=C2=A0 For the follo=
wing reasons,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0operators have retained Layer 2 in either the access (T=
ier-3) or both<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0access and aggregation (Tier-3 and Tier-2) parts of the=
 network:<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 644,650 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Seamless mobility for virtual machines that req=
uire the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 preservation of IP addresses when a virtual mac=
hine moves to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0different Tier-3 switch.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Simplified IP addressing =3D less IP subnets ar=
e required for the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 data center.<br>
--- 644,650 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Seamless mobility for virtual machines that req=
uire the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 preservation of IP addresses when a virtual mac=
hine moves to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a different Tier-3 switch.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Simplified IP addressing =3D less IP subnets ar=
e required for the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 data center.<br>
***************<br>
*** 679,686 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0adoption in networks where large Layer 2 adjacency and =
larger size<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Layer 3 subnets are not as critical compared to network=
 scalability<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and stability.=C2=A0 Application providers and network =
operators continue<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to also develop new solutions to meet some of the requiremen=
ts that<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 previously have driven large Layer 2 domains by using variou=
s overlay<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or tunneling techniques.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 5.=C2=A0 Routing Protocol Selection and Design<br>
--- 679,686 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0adoption in networks where large Layer 2 adjacency and =
larger size<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Layer 3 subnets are not as critical compared to network=
 scalability<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and stability.=C2=A0 Application providers and network =
operators continue<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to develop new solutions to meet some of the requirements th=
at<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 previously had driven large Layer 2 domains using various ov=
erlay<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or tunneling techniques.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 5.=C2=A0 Routing Protocol Selection and Design<br>
***************<br>
*** 700,706 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0design.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Although EBGP is the protocol used for almost all inter=
-domain<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 routing on the Internet and has wide support from both vendo=
r and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0service provider communities, it is not generally deplo=
yed as the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0primary routing protocol within the data center for a n=
umber of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reasons (some of which are interrelated):<br>
--- 700,706 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0design.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Although EBGP is the protocol used for almost all inter=
-domain<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 routing in the Internet and has wide support from both vendo=
r and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0service provider communities, it is not generally deplo=
yed as the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0primary routing protocol within the data center for a n=
umber of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reasons (some of which are interrelated):<br>
***************<br>
*** 741,754 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 state IGPs.=C2=A0 Since every BGP router calcul=
ates and propagates only<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the best-path selected, a network failure is ma=
sked as soon as the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BGP speaker finds an alternate path, which exis=
ts when highly<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0symmetric topologies, such as Clos, are coupled=
 with EBGP only<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 design.=C2=A0 In contrast, the event propagatio=
n scope of a link-state<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IGP is an entire area, regardless of the failur=
e type.=C2=A0 In this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 way, BGP better meets REQ3 and REQ4.=C2=A0 It i=
s also worth mentioning<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that all widely deployed link-state IGPs featur=
e periodic<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0refreshes of routing information, even if this =
rarely causes<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0impact to modern router control planes, while B=
GP does not expire<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0routing state.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 BGP supports third-party (recursively resolved)=
 next-hops.=C2=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allows for manipulating multipath to be non-ECM=
P based or<br>
--- 741,754 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 state IGPs.=C2=A0 Since every BGP router calcul=
ates and propagates only<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the best-path selected, a network failure is ma=
sked as soon as the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BGP speaker finds an alternate path, which exis=
ts when highly<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0symmetric topologies, such as Clos, are coupled=
 with an EBGP only<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 design.=C2=A0 In contrast, the event propagatio=
n scope of a link-state<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IGP is an entire area, regardless of the failur=
e type.=C2=A0 In this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 way, BGP better meets REQ3 and REQ4.=C2=A0 It i=
s also worth mentioning<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that all widely deployed link-state IGPs featur=
e periodic<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0refreshes of routing information while BGP does=
 not expire<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0routing state, although this rarely impacts mod=
ern router control<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0planes.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 BGP supports third-party (recursively resolved)=
 next-hops.=C2=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allows for manipulating multipath to be non-ECM=
P based or<br>
***************<br>
*** 765,775 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 controlled and complex unwanted paths will be i=
gnored.=C2=A0 See<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 5.2 for an example of a working ASN all=
ocation scheme.=C2=A0 In<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a link-state IGP accomplishing the same goal wo=
uld require multi-<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(instance/topology/processes) support, typicall=
y not available in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all DC devices and quite complex to configure a=
nd troubleshoot.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Using a traditional single flooding domain, whi=
ch most DC designs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 utilize, under certain failure conditions may p=
ick up unwanted<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0lengthy paths, e.g. traversing multiple Tier-2 =
devices.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 EBGP configuration that is implemented with min=
imal routing policy<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is easier to troubleshoot for network reachabil=
ity issues.=C2=A0 In<br>
--- 765,775 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 controlled and complex unwanted paths will be i=
gnored.=C2=A0 See<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 5.2 for an example of a working ASN all=
ocation scheme.=C2=A0 In<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a link-state IGP accomplishing the same goal wo=
uld require multi-<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(instance/topology/process) support, typically =
not available in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all DC devices and quite complex to configure a=
nd troubleshoot.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Using a traditional single flooding domain, whi=
ch most DC designs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 utilize, under certain failure conditions may p=
ick up unwanted<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0lengthy paths, e.g., traversing multiple Tier-2=
 devices.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 EBGP configuration that is implemented with min=
imal routing policy<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is easier to troubleshoot for network reachabil=
ity issues.=C2=A0 In<br>
***************<br>
*** 806,812 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loopback sessions are used even in the case of =
multiple links<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 between the same pair of nodes.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Private Use ASNs from the range 64512-65534 are used=
 so as to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 avoid ASN conflicts.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 A single ASN is allocated to all of the Clos to=
pology&#39;s Tier-1<br>
--- 806,812 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 loopback sessions are used even in the case of =
multiple links<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 between the same pair of nodes.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Private Use ASNs from the range 64512-65534 are used=
 to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 avoid ASN conflicts.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 A single ASN is allocated to all of the Clos to=
pology&#39;s Tier-1<br>
***************<br>
*** 815,821 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 A unique ASN is allocated to each set of Tier-2=
 devices in the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 same cluster.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A unique ASN is allocated to every Tier-3 device (e.=
g.=C2=A0 ToR) in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this topology.<br>
<br>
<br>
--- 815,821 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 A unique ASN is allocated to each set of Tier-2=
 devices in the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 same cluster.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A unique ASN is allocated to every Tier-3 device (e.=
g.,=C2=A0 ToR) in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this topology.<br>
<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 903,922 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Another solution to this problem would be using Four-Oc=
tet ASNs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0([RFC6793]), where there are additional Private Use ASN=
s available,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 see [<a href=3D"http://IANA.AS" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">IANA.AS</a>].=C2=A0 Use of Four-Octet ASNs put additional protocol=
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 complexity in the BGP implementation so should be considered=
 against<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the complexity of re-use when considering REQ3 and REQ4=
.=C2=A0 Perhaps<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0more importantly, they are not yet supported by all BGP=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementations, which may limit vendor selection of DC=
 equipment.<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 When supported, ensure that implementations in use are able =
to remove<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Private Use ASNs if required for external connectivity<b=
r>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Section 5.2.4).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 5.2.3.=C2=A0 Prefix Advertisement<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A Clos topology features a large number of point-to-poi=
nt links and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0associated prefixes.=C2=A0 Advertising all of these rou=
tes into BGP may<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 create FIB overload conditions in the network devices.=C2=A0=
 Advertising<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these links also puts additional path computation stres=
s on the BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0control plane for little benefit.=C2=A0 There are two p=
ossible solutions:<br>
<br>
--- 903,922 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Another solution to this problem would be using Four-Oc=
tet ASNs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0([RFC6793]), where there are additional Private Use ASN=
s available,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 see [<a href=3D"http://IANA.AS" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">IANA.AS</a>].=C2=A0 Use of Four-Octet ASNs puts additional protoco=
l<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 complexity in the BGP implementation and should be balanced =
against<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the complexity of re-use when considering REQ3 and REQ4=
.=C2=A0 Perhaps<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0more importantly, they are not yet supported by all BGP=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementations, which may limit vendor selection of DC=
 equipment.<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 When supported, ensure that deployed implementations are abl=
e to<br>
remove<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Private Use ASNs when external connectivity to these ASe=
s is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 required (Section 5.2.4).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 5.2.3.=C2=A0 Prefix Advertisement<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A Clos topology features a large number of point-to-poi=
nt links and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0associated prefixes.=C2=A0 Advertising all of these rou=
tes into BGP may<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 create FIB overload in the network devices.=C2=A0 Advertisin=
g<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these links also puts additional path computation stres=
s on the BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0control plane for little benefit.=C2=A0 There are two p=
ossible solutions:<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 925,951 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 device, distant networks will automatically be =
reachable via the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertising EBGP peer and do not require reacha=
bility to these<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes.=C2=A0 However, this may complicate op=
erations or monitoring:<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e.g. using the popular &quot;traceroute&quot; t=
ool will display IP addresses<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that are not reachable.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Advertise point-to-point links, but summarize t=
hem on every<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 device.=C2=A0 This requires an address allocati=
on scheme such as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allocating a consecutive block of IP addresses =
per Tier-1 and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tier-2 device to be used for point-to-point int=
erface addressing<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to the lower layers (Tier-2 uplinks will be num=
bered out of Tier-1<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0addressing and so forth).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Server subnets on Tier-3 devices must be announced into=
 BGP without<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0using route summarization on Tier-2 and Tier-1 devices.=
=C2=A0 Summarizing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0subnets in a Clos topology results in route black-holin=
g under a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 single link failure (e.g. between Tier-2 and Tier-3 devices)=
 and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hence must be avoided.=C2=A0 The use of peer links with=
in the same tier to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0resolve the black-holing problem by providing &quot;byp=
ass paths&quot; is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0undesirable due to O(N^2) complexity of the peering mes=
h and waste of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ports on the devices.=C2=A0 An alternative to the full-=
mesh of peer-links<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 would be using a simpler bypass topology, e.g. a &quot;ring&=
quot; as described<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in [FB4POST], but such a topology adds extra hops and h=
as very<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 limited bisection bandwidth, in addition requiring special t=
weaks to<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--- 925,951 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 device, distant networks will automatically be =
reachable via the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertising EBGP peer and do not require reacha=
bility to these<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes.=C2=A0 However, this may complicate op=
erations or monitoring:<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e.g., using the popular &quot;traceroute&quot; =
tool will display IP addresses<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that are not reachable.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Advertise point-to-point links, but summarize t=
hem on every<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 device.=C2=A0 This requires an address allocati=
on scheme such as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allocating a consecutive block of IP addresses =
per Tier-1 and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tier-2 device to be used for point-to-point int=
erface addressing<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to the lower layers (Tier-2 uplink addresses wi=
ll be allocated<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0from Tier-1 address blocks and so forth).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Server subnets on Tier-3 devices must be announced into=
 BGP without<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0using route summarization on Tier-2 and Tier-1 devices.=
=C2=A0 Summarizing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0subnets in a Clos topology results in route black-holin=
g under a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 single link failure (e.g., between Tier-2 and Tier-3 devices=
) and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hence must be avoided.=C2=A0 The use of peer links with=
in the same tier to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0resolve the black-holing problem by providing &quot;byp=
ass paths&quot; is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0undesirable due to O(N^2) complexity of the peering mes=
h and waste of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ports on the devices.=C2=A0 An alternative to the full-=
mesh of peer-links<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 would be using a simpler bypass topology, e.g., a &quot;ring=
&quot; as described<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in [FB4POST], but such a topology adds extra hops and h=
as very<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 limited bisectional bandwidth. Additionally requiring specia=
l tweaks<br>
to<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 956,963 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make BGP routing work - such as possibly splitting ever=
y device into<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an ASN on its own.=C2=A0 Later in this document, Sectio=
n 8.2 introduces a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 less intrusive method for performing a limited form route<br=
>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 summarization in Clos networks and discusses it&#39;s associ=
ated trade-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0offs.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 5.2.4.=C2=A0 External Connectivity<br>
--- 956,963 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make BGP routing work - such as possibly splitting ever=
y device into<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an ASN on its own.=C2=A0 Later in this document, Sectio=
n 8.2 introduces a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 less intrusive method for performing a limited form of route=
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 summarization in Clos networks and discusses its associated =
trade-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0offs.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 5.2.4.=C2=A0 External Connectivity<br>
***************<br>
*** 972,985 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0 These devices have to perform a few spe=
cial functions:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Hide network topology information when advertis=
ing paths to WAN<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0routers, i.e. remove Private Use ASNs [RFC6996]=
 from the AS_PATH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 attribute.=C2=A0 This is typically done to avoi=
d ASN number collisions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 between different data centers and also to prov=
ide a uniform<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AS_PATH length to the WAN for purposes of WAN E=
CMP to Anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes originated in the topology.=C2=A0 An i=
mplementation specific<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BGP feature typically called &quot;Remove Priva=
te AS&quot; is commonly used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to accomplish this.=C2=A0 Depending on implemen=
tation, the feature<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0should strip a contiguous sequence of Private U=
se ASNs found in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AS_PATH attribute prior to advertising the path=
 to a neighbor.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This assumes that all ASNs used for intra data =
center numbering<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are from the Private Use ranges.=C2=A0 The proc=
ess for stripping the<br>
--- 972,985 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0 These devices have to perform a few spe=
cial functions:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Hide network topology information when advertis=
ing paths to WAN<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0routers, i.e., remove Private Use ASNs [RFC6996=
] from the AS_PATH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 attribute.=C2=A0 This is typically done to avoi=
d ASN number collisions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 between different data centers and also to prov=
ide a uniform<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AS_PATH length to the WAN for purposes of WAN E=
CMP to Anycast<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes originated in the topology.=C2=A0 An i=
mplementation specific<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BGP feature typically called &quot;Remove Priva=
te AS&quot; is commonly used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to accomplish this.=C2=A0 Depending on implemen=
tation, the feature<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0should strip a contiguous sequence of Private U=
se ASNs found in an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AS_PATH attribute prior to advertising the path=
 to a neighbor.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This assumes that all ASNs used for intra data =
center numbering<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are from the Private Use ranges.=C2=A0 The proc=
ess for stripping the<br>
***************<br>
*** 998,1005 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to the WAN Routers upstream, to provide resista=
nce to a single-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 link failure causing the black-holing of traffi=
c.=C2=A0 To prevent<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 black-holing in the situation when all of the E=
BGP sessions to the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0WAN routers fail simultaneously on a given devi=
ce it is more<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0desirable to take the &quot;relaying&quot; appr=
oach rather than introducing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the default route via complicated conditional r=
oute origination<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 schemes provided by some implementations [CONDI=
TIONALROUTE].<br>
<br>
--- 998,1005 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to the WAN Routers upstream, to provide resista=
nce to a single-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 link failure causing the black-holing of traffi=
c.=C2=A0 To prevent<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 black-holing in the situation when all of the E=
BGP sessions to the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0WAN routers fail simultaneously on a given devi=
ce, it is more<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0desirable to readvertise the default route rath=
er than originating<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the default route via complicated conditional r=
oute origination<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 schemes provided by some implementations [CONDI=
TIONALROUTE].<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1017,1023 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes originated from within the data center in a fu=
lly routed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network design.=C2=A0 For example, a network with 2000 =
Tier-3 devices will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have at least 2000 servers subnets advertised into BGP,=
 along with<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the infrastructure or other prefixes.=C2=A0 However, as disc=
ussed before,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the proposed network design does not allow for route su=
mmarization<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0due to the lack of peer links inside every tier.<br>
<br>
--- 1017,1023 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes originated from within the data center in a fu=
lly routed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network design.=C2=A0 For example, a network with 2000 =
Tier-3 devices will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have at least 2000 servers subnets advertised into BGP,=
 along with<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the infrastructure and link prefixes.=C2=A0 However, as disc=
ussed before,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the proposed network design does not allow for route su=
mmarization<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0due to the lack of peer links inside every tier.<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1028,1037 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Interconnect the Border Routers using a full-me=
sh of physical<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 links or using any other &quot;peer-mesh&quot; =
topology, such as ring or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hub-and-spoke.=C2=A0 Configure BGP accordingly =
on all Border Leafs to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0exchange network reachability information - e.g=
. by adding a mesh<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of IBGP sessions.=C2=A0 The interconnecting pee=
r links need to be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 appropriately sized for traffic that will be pr=
esent in the case<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of a device or link failure underneath the Bord=
er Routers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Tier-1 devices may have additional physical lin=
ks provisioned<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 toward the Border Routers (which are Tier-2 dev=
ices from the<br>
--- 1028,1037 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Interconnect the Border Routers using a full-me=
sh of physical<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 links or using any other &quot;peer-mesh&quot; =
topology, such as ring or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hub-and-spoke.=C2=A0 Configure BGP accordingly =
on all Border Leafs to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0exchange network reachability information, e.g.=
, by adding a mesh<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of IBGP sessions.=C2=A0 The interconnecting pee=
r links need to be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 appropriately sized for traffic that will be pr=
esent in the case<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of a device or link failure in the mesh connect=
ing the Border<br>
Routers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Tier-1 devices may have additional physical lin=
ks provisioned<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 toward the Border Routers (which are Tier-2 dev=
ices from the<br>
***************<br>
*** 1043,1049 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 device compared with the other devices in the C=
los.=C2=A0 This also<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 reduces the number of ports available to &quot;=
regular&quot; Tier-2 switches<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and hence the number of clusters that could be =
interconnected via<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tier-1 layer.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If any of the above options are implemented, it is poss=
ible to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perform route summarization at the Border Routers towar=
d the WAN<br>
--- 1043,1049 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 device compared with the other devices in the C=
los.=C2=A0 This also<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 reduces the number of ports available to &quot;=
regular&quot; Tier-2 switches<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and hence the number of clusters that could be =
interconnected via<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the Tier-1 layer.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If any of the above options are implemented, it is poss=
ible to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perform route summarization at the Border Routers towar=
d the WAN<br>
***************<br>
*** 1071,1079 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ECMP is the fundamental load sharing mechanism used by =
a Clos<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology.=C2=A0 Effectively, every lower-tier device wi=
ll use all of its<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0directly attached upper-tier devices to load share traf=
fic destined<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to the same IP prefix.=C2=A0 Number of ECMP paths between an=
y two Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices in Clos topology equals to the number of the de=
vices in the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 middle stage (Tier-1).=C2=A0 For example, Figure 5 illustrat=
es the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology where Tier-3 device A has four paths to reach =
servers X and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Y, via Tier-2 devices B and C and then Tier-1 devices 1=
, 2, 3, and 4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0respectively.<br>
--- 1071,1079 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ECMP is the fundamental load sharing mechanism used by =
a Clos<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology.=C2=A0 Effectively, every lower-tier device wi=
ll use all of its<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0directly attached upper-tier devices to load share traf=
fic destined<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to the same IP prefix.=C2=A0 The number of ECMP paths betwee=
n any two<br>
Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices in Clos topology equals to the number of the de=
vices in the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 middle stage (Tier-1).=C2=A0 For example, Figure 5 illustrat=
es a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology where Tier-3 device A has four paths to reach =
servers X and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Y, via Tier-2 devices B and C and then Tier-1 devices 1=
, 2, 3, and 4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0respectively.<br>
***************<br>
*** 1105,1116 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The ECMP requirement implies that the BGP implementatio=
n must support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multipath fan-out for up to the maximum number of devic=
es directly<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 attached at any point in the topology in upstream or downstr=
eam<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0direction.=C2=A0 Normally, this number does not exceed =
half of the ports<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0found on a device in the topology.=C2=A0 For example, a=
n ECMP fan-out of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A032 would be required when building a Clos network using=
 64-port<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 The Border Routers may need to have wide=
r fan-out to be<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 able to connect to multitude of Tier-1 devices if route summ=
arization<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0at Border Router level is implemented as described in S=
ection 5.2.5.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If a device&#39;s hardware does not support wider ECMP,=
 logical link-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0grouping (link-aggregation at layer 2) could be used to=
 provide<br>
--- 1105,1116 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The ECMP requirement implies that the BGP implementatio=
n must support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multipath fan-out for up to the maximum number of devic=
es directly<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 attached at any point in the topology in the upstream or dow=
nstream<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0direction.=C2=A0 Normally, this number does not exceed =
half of the ports<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0found on a device in the topology.=C2=A0 For example, a=
n ECMP fan-out of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A032 would be required when building a Clos network using=
 64-port<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 The Border Routers may need to have wide=
r fan-out to be<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 able to connect to a multitude of Tier-1 devices if route<br=
>
summarization<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0at Border Router level is implemented as described in S=
ection 5.2.5.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If a device&#39;s hardware does not support wider ECMP,=
 logical link-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0grouping (link-aggregation at layer 2) could be used to=
 provide<br>
***************<br>
*** 1122,1131 ****<br>
=C2=A0 Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0March 2016<br>
<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;hierarchical&quot; ECMP (Layer 3 ECMP followed by Laye=
r 2 ECMP) to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0compensate for fan-out limitations.=C2=A0 Such approach=
, however,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0increases the risk of flow polarization, as less entrop=
y will be<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available to the second stage of ECMP.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Most BGP implementations declare paths to be equal from=
 an ECMP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perspective if they match up to and including step (e) =
in<br>
--- 1122,1131 ----<br>
=C2=A0 Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0March 2016<br>
<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;hierarchical&quot; ECMP (Layer 3 ECMP coupled with Lay=
er 2 ECMP) to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0compensate for fan-out limitations.=C2=A0 Such approach=
, however,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0increases the risk of flow polarization, as less entrop=
y will be<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available at the second stage of ECMP.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Most BGP implementations declare paths to be equal from=
 an ECMP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perspective if they match up to and including step (e) =
in<br>
***************<br>
*** 1148,1154 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perspective of other devices, such a prefix would have =
BGP paths with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0different AS_PATH attribute values, while having the sa=
me AS_PATH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute lengths.=C2=A0 Therefore, BGP implementations=
 must support load<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sharing over above-mentioned paths.=C2=A0 This feature is so=
metimes known<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as &quot;multipath relax&quot; or &quot;multipath multi=
ple-as&quot; and effectively<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0allows for ECMP to be done across different neighboring=
 ASNs if all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0other attributes are equal as already described in the =
previous<br>
--- 1148,1154 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perspective of other devices, such a prefix would have =
BGP paths with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0different AS_PATH attribute values, while having the sa=
me AS_PATH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute lengths.=C2=A0 Therefore, BGP implementations=
 must support load<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sharing over the above-mentioned paths.=C2=A0 This feature i=
s sometimes<br>
known<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as &quot;multipath relax&quot; or &quot;multipath multi=
ple-as&quot; and effectively<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0allows for ECMP to be done across different neighboring=
 ASNs if all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0other attributes are equal as already described in the =
previous<br>
***************<br>
*** 1182,1199 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It is often desirable to have the hashing function used=
 for ECMP to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be consistent (see [CONS-HASH]), to minimize the impact=
 on flow to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 next-hop affinity changes when a next-hop is added or remove=
d to ECMP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group.=C2=A0 This could be used if the network device i=
s used as a load<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0balancer, mapping flows toward multiple destinations - =
in this case,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 losing or adding a destination will not have detrimental eff=
ect of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0currently established flows.=C2=A0 One particular recom=
mendation on<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementing consistent hashing is provided in [RFC2992=
], though<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0other implementations are possible.=C2=A0 This function=
ality could be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0naturally combined with weighted ECMP, with the impact =
of the next-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hop changes being proportional to the weight of the giv=
en next-hop.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The downside of consistent hashing is increased load on=
 hardware<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 resource utilization, as typically more space is required to=
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 implement a consistent-hashing region.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 7.=C2=A0 Routing Convergence Properties<br>
<br>
--- 1182,1199 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It is often desirable to have the hashing function used=
 for ECMP to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be consistent (see [CONS-HASH]), to minimize the impact=
 on flow to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 next-hop affinity changes when a next-hop is added or remove=
d to an<br>
ECMP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group.=C2=A0 This could be used if the network device i=
s used as a load<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0balancer, mapping flows toward multiple destinations - =
in this case,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 losing or adding a destination will not have a detrimental e=
ffect on<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0currently established flows.=C2=A0 One particular recom=
mendation on<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementing consistent hashing is provided in [RFC2992=
], though<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0other implementations are possible.=C2=A0 This function=
ality could be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0naturally combined with weighted ECMP, with the impact =
of the next-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hop changes being proportional to the weight of the giv=
en next-hop.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The downside of consistent hashing is increased load on=
 hardware<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 resource utilization, as typically more resources (e.g., TCA=
M space)<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 are required to implement a consistent-hashing function.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 7.=C2=A0 Routing Convergence Properties<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1209,1224 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0driven mechanism to obtain updates on IGP state changes=
.=C2=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0proposed routing design does not use an IGP, so the rem=
aining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms that could be used for fault detection are B=
GP keep-alive<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 process (or any other type of keep-alive mechanism) and link=
-failure<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0triggers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Relying solely on BGP keep-alive packets may result in =
high<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 convergence delays, in the order of multiple seconds (on man=
y BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementations the minimum configurable BGP hold timer=
 value is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0three seconds).=C2=A0 However, many BGP implementations=
 can shut down<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0local EBGP peering sessions in response to the &quot;li=
nk down&quot; event for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the outgoing interface used for BGP peering.=C2=A0 This=
 feature is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sometimes called as &quot;fast fallover&quot;.=C2=A0 Since l=
inks in modern data<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0centers are predominantly point-to-point fiber connecti=
ons, a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0physical interface failure is often detected in millise=
conds and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0subsequently triggers a BGP re-convergence.<br>
--- 1209,1224 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0driven mechanism to obtain updates on IGP state changes=
.=C2=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0proposed routing design does not use an IGP, so the rem=
aining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms that could be used for fault detection are B=
GP keep-alive<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 time-out (or any other type of keep-alive mechanism) and lin=
k-failure<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0triggers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Relying solely on BGP keep-alive packets may result in =
high<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 convergence delays, on the order of multiple seconds (on man=
y BGP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementations the minimum configurable BGP hold timer=
 value is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0three seconds).=C2=A0 However, many BGP implementations=
 can shut down<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0local EBGP peering sessions in response to the &quot;li=
nk down&quot; event for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the outgoing interface used for BGP peering.=C2=A0 This=
 feature is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sometimes called &quot;fast fallover&quot;.=C2=A0 Since link=
s in modern data<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0centers are predominantly point-to-point fiber connecti=
ons, a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0physical interface failure is often detected in millise=
conds and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0subsequently triggers a BGP re-convergence.<br>
***************<br>
*** 1236,1242 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alternatively, some platforms may support Bidirectional=
 Forwarding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection (BFD) [RFC5880] to allow for sub-second failu=
re detection<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and fault signaling to the BGP process.=C2=A0 However, use o=
f either of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these presents additional requirements to vendor softwa=
re and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0possibly hardware, and may contradict REQ1.=C2=A0 Until=
 recently with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC7130], BFD also did not allow detection of a single=
 member link<br>
--- 1236,1242 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alternatively, some platforms may support Bidirectional=
 Forwarding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Detection (BFD) [RFC5880] to allow for sub-second failu=
re detection<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and fault signaling to the BGP process.=C2=A0 However, the u=
se of either of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these presents additional requirements to vendor softwa=
re and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0possibly hardware, and may contradict REQ1.=C2=A0 Until=
 recently with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC7130], BFD also did not allow detection of a single=
 member link<br>
***************<br>
*** 1245,1251 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 7.2.=C2=A0 Event Propagation Timing<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In the proposed design the impact of BGP Minimum Route Adver=
tisement<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Interval (MRAI) timer (See section 9.2.1.1 of [RFC4271]=
) should be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0considered.=C2=A0 Per the standard it is required for B=
GP implementations<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to space out consecutive BGP UPDATE messages by at leas=
t MRAI<br>
--- 1245,1251 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 7.2.=C2=A0 Event Propagation Timing<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In the proposed design the impact of the BGP Minimum Route<b=
r>
Advertisement<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Interval (MRAI) timer (See section 9.2.1.1 of [RFC4271]=
) should be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0considered.=C2=A0 Per the standard it is required for B=
GP implementations<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to space out consecutive BGP UPDATE messages by at leas=
t MRAI<br>
***************<br>
*** 1258,1270 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In a Clos topology each EBGP speaker typically has eith=
er one path<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(Tier-2 devices don&#39;t accept paths from other Tier-=
2 in the same<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cluster due to same ASN) or N paths for the same prefix=
, where N is a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 significantly large number, e.g.=C2=A0 N=3D32 (the ECMP fan-=
out to the next<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tier).=C2=A0 Therefore, if a link fails to another devi=
ce from which a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 path is received there is either no backup path at all (e.g.=
 from<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perspective of a Tier-2 switch losing link to a Tier-3 =
device), or<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the backup is readily available in BGP Loc-RIB (e.g. from pe=
rspective<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of a Tier-2 device losing link to a Tier-1 switch).=C2=
=A0 In the former<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 case, the BGP withdrawal announcement will propagate un-dela=
yed and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trigger re-convergence on affected devices.=C2=A0 In th=
e latter case, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0best-path will be re-evaluated and the local ECMP group=
 corresponding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to the new next-hop set changed.=C2=A0 If the BGP path =
was the best-path<br>
--- 1258,1270 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In a Clos topology each EBGP speaker typically has eith=
er one path<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(Tier-2 devices don&#39;t accept paths from other Tier-=
2 in the same<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cluster due to same ASN) or N paths for the same prefix=
, where N is a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 significantly large number, e.g.,=C2=A0 N=3D32 (the ECMP fan=
-out to the next<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tier).=C2=A0 Therefore, if a link fails to another devi=
ce from which a<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 path is received there is either no backup path at all (e.g.=
, from the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0perspective of a Tier-2 switch losing link to a Tier-3 =
device), or<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the backup is readily available in BGP Loc-RIB (e.g., from p=
erspective<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of a Tier-2 device losing link to a Tier-1 switch).=C2=
=A0 In the former<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 case, the BGP withdrawal announcement will propagate without=
 delay and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0trigger re-convergence on affected devices.=C2=A0 In th=
e latter case, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0best-path will be re-evaluated and the local ECMP group=
 corresponding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to the new next-hop set changed.=C2=A0 If the BGP path =
was the best-path<br>
***************<br>
*** 1279,1285 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0situation when a link between Tier-3 and Tier-2 device =
fails, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tier-2 device will send BGP UPDATE messages to all upst=
ream Tier-1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices, withdrawing the affected prefixes.=C2=A0 The T=
ier-1 devices, in<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 turn, will relay those messages to all downstream Tier-2 dev=
ices<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(except for the originator).=C2=A0 Tier-2 devices other=
 than the one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originating the UPDATE should then wait for ALL upstrea=
m Tier-1<br>
<br>
--- 1279,1285 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0situation when a link between Tier-3 and Tier-2 device =
fails, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tier-2 device will send BGP UPDATE messages to all upst=
ream Tier-1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices, withdrawing the affected prefixes.=C2=A0 The T=
ier-1 devices, in<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 turn, will relay these messages to all downstream Tier-2 dev=
ices<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(except for the originator).=C2=A0 Tier-2 devices other=
 than the one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originating the UPDATE should then wait for ALL upstrea=
m Tier-1<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1307,1313 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0features that vendors include to reduce the control pla=
ne impact of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0rapidly flapping prefixes.=C2=A0 However, due to issues=
 described with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0false positives in these implementations especially und=
er such<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;dispersion&quot; events, it is not recommended to turn=
 this feature on in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this design.=C2=A0 More background and issues with &quo=
t;route flap dampening&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and possible implementation changes that could affect t=
his are well<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described in [RFC7196].<br>
--- 1307,1313 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0features that vendors include to reduce the control pla=
ne impact of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0rapidly flapping prefixes.=C2=A0 However, due to issues=
 described with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0false positives in these implementations especially und=
er such<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;dispersion&quot; events, it is not recommended to enab=
le this feature in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this design.=C2=A0 More background and issues with &quo=
t;route flap dampening&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and possible implementation changes that could affect t=
his are well<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described in [RFC7196].<br>
***************<br>
*** 1316,1324 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A network is declared to converge in response to a fail=
ure once all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices within the failure impact scope are notified of=
 the event and<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 have re-calculated their RIB&#39;s and consequently updated =
their FIB&#39;s.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Larger failure impact scope typically means slower conv=
ergence since<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 more devices have to be notified, and additionally results i=
n a less<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0stable network.=C2=A0 In this section we describe BGP&#=
39;s advantages over<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0link-state routing protocols in reducing failure impact=
 scope for a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Clos topology.<br>
--- 1316,1324 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A network is declared to converge in response to a fail=
ure once all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices within the failure impact scope are notified of=
 the event and<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 have re-calculated their RIBs and consequently updated their=
 FIBs.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Larger failure impact scope typically means slower conv=
ergence since<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 more devices have to be notified, and results in a less<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0stable network.=C2=A0 In this section we describe BGP&#=
39;s advantages over<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0link-state routing protocols in reducing failure impact=
 scope for a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Clos topology.<br>
***************<br>
*** 1327,1335 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the best path from the point of view of the local route=
r is sent to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0neighbors.=C2=A0 As such, some failures are masked if t=
he local node can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0immediately find a backup path and does not have to sen=
d any updates<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 further.=C2=A0 Notice that in the worst case ALL devices in =
a data center<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology have to either withdraw a prefix completely or=
 update the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ECMP groups in the FIB.=C2=A0 However, many failures will no=
t result in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0such a wide impact.=C2=A0 There are two main failure ty=
pes where impact<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0scope is reduced:<br>
<br>
--- 1327,1335 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the best path from the point of view of the local route=
r is sent to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0neighbors.=C2=A0 As such, some failures are masked if t=
he local node can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0immediately find a backup path and does not have to sen=
d any updates<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 further.=C2=A0 Notice that in the worst case, all devices in=
 a data center<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology have to either withdraw a prefix completely or=
 update the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ECMP groups in their FIBs.=C2=A0 However, many failures will=
 not result in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0such a wide impact.=C2=A0 There are two main failure ty=
pes where impact<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0scope is reduced:<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1357,1367 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Failure of a Tier-1 device: In this case, all T=
ier-2 devices<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 directly attached to the failed node will have =
to update their<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ECMP groups for all IP prefixes from non-local =
cluster.=C2=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tier-3 devices are once again not involved in t=
he re-convergence<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 process, but may receive &quot;implicit withdra=
ws&quot; as described above.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Even though in case of such failures multiple IP prefixes wi=
ll have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to be reprogrammed in the FIB, it is worth noting that =
ALL of these<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes share a single ECMP group on Tier-2 device.=C2=
=A0 Therefore, in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the case of implementations with a hierarchical FIB, on=
ly a single<br>
--- 1357,1367 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Failure of a Tier-1 device: In this case, all T=
ier-2 devices<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 directly attached to the failed node will have =
to update their<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ECMP groups for all IP prefixes from a non-loca=
l cluster.=C2=A0 The<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tier-3 devices are once again not involved in t=
he re-convergence<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 process, but may receive &quot;implicit withdra=
ws&quot; as described above.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Even in the case of such failures, multiple IP prefixes will=
 have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to be reprogrammed in the FIB, it is worth noting that =
ALL of these<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes share a single ECMP group on Tier-2 device.=C2=
=A0 Therefore, in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the case of implementations with a hierarchical FIB, on=
ly a single<br>
***************<br>
*** 1375,1381 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0possible with the proposed design, since using this tec=
hnique may<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0create routing black-holes as mentioned previously.=C2=
=A0 Therefore, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0worst control plane failure impact scope is the network=
 as a whole,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for instance in a case of a link failure between Tier-2 and =
Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 The amount of impacted prefixes in this =
case would be much<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0less than in the case of a failure in the upper layers =
of a Clos<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network topology.=C2=A0 The property of having such lar=
ge failure scope is<br>
--- 1375,1381 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0possible with the proposed design, since using this tec=
hnique may<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0create routing black-holes as mentioned previously.=C2=
=A0 Therefore, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0worst control plane failure impact scope is the network=
 as a whole,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for instance in thecase of a link failure between Tier-2 and=
 Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 The amount of impacted prefixes in this =
case would be much<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0less than in the case of a failure in the upper layers =
of a Clos<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network topology.=C2=A0 The property of having such lar=
ge failure scope is<br>
***************<br>
*** 1384,1397 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 7.5.=C2=A0 Routing Micro-Loops<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a downstream device, e.g.=C2=A0 Tier-2 device, loses al=
l paths for a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix, it normally has the default route pointing towa=
rd the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0upstream device, in this case the Tier-1 device.=C2=A0 =
As a result, it is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 possible to get in the situation when Tier-2 switch loses a =
prefix,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 but Tier-1 switch still has the path pointing to the Tier-2 =
device,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 which results in transient micro-loop, since Tier-1 switch w=
ill keep<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0passing packets to the affected prefix back to Tier-2 d=
evice, and<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tier-2 will bounce it back again using the default route.=C2=
=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0micro-loop will last for the duration of time it takes =
the upstream<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0device to fully update its forwarding tables.<br>
<br>
--- 1384,1397 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 7.5.=C2=A0 Routing Micro-Loops<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a downstream device, e.g.,=C2=A0 Tier-2 device, loses a=
ll paths for a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix, it normally has the default route pointing towa=
rd the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0upstream device, in this case the Tier-1 device.=C2=A0 =
As a result, it is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 possible to get in the situation where a Tier-2 switch loses=
 a prefix,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 but a Tier-1 switch still has the path pointing to the Tier-=
2 device,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 which results in transient micro-loop, since the Tier-1 swit=
ch will<br>
keep<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0passing packets to the affected prefix back to Tier-2 d=
evice, and<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Tier-2 will bounce it back again using the default route=
.=C2=A0 This<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0micro-loop will last for the duration of time it takes =
the upstream<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0device to fully update its forwarding tables.<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1402,1408 ****<br>
=C2=A0 Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0March 2016<br>
<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To minimize impact of the micro-loops, Tier-2 and Tier-1 swi=
tches can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be configured with static &quot;discard&quot; or &quot;=
null&quot; routes that will be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0more specific than the default route for prefixes missi=
ng during<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network convergence.=C2=A0 For Tier-2 switches, the dis=
card route should<br>
--- 1402,1408 ----<br>
=C2=A0 Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0March 2016<br>
<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To minimize the impact of such micro-loops, Tier-2 and Tier-=
1<br>
switches can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be configured with static &quot;discard&quot; or &quot;=
null&quot; routes that will be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0more specific than the default route for prefixes missi=
ng during<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network convergence.=C2=A0 For Tier-2 switches, the dis=
card route should<br>
***************<br>
*** 1417,1423 ****<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 8.1.=C2=A0 Third-party Route Injection<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BGP allows for a &quot;third-party&quot;, i.e. directly atta=
ched, BGP speaker<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to inject routes anywhere in the network topology, meet=
ing REQ5.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This can be achieved by peering via a multihop BGP sess=
ion with some<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or even all devices in the topology.=C2=A0 Furthermore,=
 BGP diverse path<br>
--- 1417,1423 ----<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 8.1.=C2=A0 Third-party Route Injection<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 BGP allows for a &quot;third-party&quot;, i.e., directly att=
ached, BGP speaker<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to inject routes anywhere in the network topology, meet=
ing REQ5.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This can be achieved by peering via a multihop BGP sess=
ion with some<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or even all devices in the topology.=C2=A0 Furthermore,=
 BGP diverse path<br>
***************<br>
*** 1427,1433 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, in many implementa=
tions ADD-PATH has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0been found to only support IBGP properly due to the use=
 cases it was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originally optimized for, which limits the &quot;third-=
party&quot; peering to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IBGP only, if the feature is used.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To implement route injection in the proposed design, a =
third-party<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP speaker may peer with Tier-3 and Tier-1 switches, i=
njecting the<br>
--- 1427,1433 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, in many implementa=
tions ADD-PATH has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0been found to only support IBGP properly due to the use=
 cases it was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originally optimized for, which limits the &quot;third-=
party&quot; peering to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IBGP only.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To implement route injection in the proposed design, a =
third-party<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP speaker may peer with Tier-3 and Tier-1 switches, i=
njecting the<br>
***************<br>
*** 1442,1453 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As mentioned previously, route summarization is not pos=
sible within<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the proposed Clos topology since it makes the network s=
usceptible to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0route black-holing under single link failures.=C2=A0 Th=
e main problem is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the limited number of redundant paths between network elemen=
ts, e.g.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0there is only a single path between any pair of Tier-1 =
and Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 However, some operators may find route a=
ggregation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0desirable to improve control plane stability.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If planning on using any technique to summarize within the t=
opology<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0modeling of the routing behavior and potential for blac=
k-holing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0should be done not only for single or multiple link fai=
lures, but<br>
<br>
--- 1442,1453 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As mentioned previously, route summarization is not pos=
sible within<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the proposed Clos topology since it makes the network s=
usceptible to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0route black-holing under single link failures.=C2=A0 Th=
e main problem is<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the limited number of redundant paths between network elemen=
ts, e.g.,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0there is only a single path between any pair of Tier-1 =
and Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices.=C2=A0 However, some operators may find route a=
ggregation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0desirable to improve control plane stability.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If any technique to summarize within the topology is planned=
,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0modeling of the routing behavior and potential for blac=
k-holing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0should be done not only for single or multiple link fai=
lures, but<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1458,1468 ****<br>
=C2=A0 Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0March 2016<br>
<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 also fiber pathway failures or optical domain failures if th=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology extends beyond a physical location.=C2=A0 Simp=
le modeling can be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0done by checking the reachability on devices doing summ=
arization<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under the condition of a link or pathway failure betwee=
n a set of<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 devices in every tier as well as to the WAN routers if exter=
nal<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0connectivity is present.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Route summarization would be possible with a small modi=
fication to<br>
--- 1458,1468 ----<br>
=C2=A0 Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0March 2016<br>
<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 also fiber pathway failures or optical domain failures when =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology extends beyond a physical location.=C2=A0 Simp=
le modeling can be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0done by checking the reachability on devices doing summ=
arization<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under the condition of a link or pathway failure betwee=
n a set of<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 devices in every tier as well as to the WAN routers when ext=
ernal<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0connectivity is present.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Route summarization would be possible with a small modi=
fication to<br>
***************<br>
*** 1519,1544 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cluster from Tier-2 devices since each of them has only=
 a single path<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0down to this prefix.=C2=A0 It would require dual-homed =
servers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0accomplish that.=C2=A0 Also note that this design is on=
ly resilient to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 single link failure.=C2=A0 It is possible for a double link =
failure to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0isolate a Tier-2 device from all paths toward a specifi=
c Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0device, thus causing a routing black-hole.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A result of the proposed topology modification would be redu=
ction of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tier-1 devices port capacity.=C2=A0 This limits the max=
imum number of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0attached Tier-2 devices and therefore will limit the ma=
ximum DC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network size.=C2=A0 A larger network would require diff=
erent Tier-1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices that have higher port density to implement this=
 change.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Another problem is traffic re-balancing under link fail=
ures.=C2=A0 Since<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 three are two paths from Tier-1 to Tier-3, a failure of the =
link<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0between Tier-1 and Tier-2 switch would result in all tr=
affic that was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0taking the failed link to switch to the remaining path.=
=C2=A0 This will<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 result in doubling of link utilization on the remaining link=
.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 8.2.2.=C2=A0 Simple Virtual Aggregation<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A completely different approach to route summarization =
is possible,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provided that the main goal is to reduce the FIB pressure, w=
hile<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0allowing the control plane to disseminate full routing =
information.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Firstly, it could be easily noted that in many cases mu=
ltiple<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes, some of which are less specific, share the sa=
me set of the<br>
--- 1519,1544 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cluster from Tier-2 devices since each of them has only=
 a single path<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0down to this prefix.=C2=A0 It would require dual-homed =
servers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0accomplish that.=C2=A0 Also note that this design is on=
ly resilient to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 single link failures.=C2=A0 It is possible for a double link=
 failure to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0isolate a Tier-2 device from all paths toward a specifi=
c Tier-3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0device, thus causing a routing black-hole.<br>
<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A result of the proposed topology modification would be a re=
duction of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tier-1 devices port capacity.=C2=A0 This limits the max=
imum number of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0attached Tier-2 devices and therefore will limit the ma=
ximum DC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network size.=C2=A0 A larger network would require diff=
erent Tier-1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0devices that have higher port density to implement this=
 change.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Another problem is traffic re-balancing under link fail=
ures.=C2=A0 Since<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 there are two paths from Tier-1 to Tier-3, a failure of the =
link<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0between Tier-1 and Tier-2 switch would result in all tr=
affic that was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0taking the failed link to switch to the remaining path.=
=C2=A0 This will<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 result in doubling the link utilization of the remaining lin=
k.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 8.2.2.=C2=A0 Simple Virtual Aggregation<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A completely different approach to route summarization =
is possible,<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provided that the main goal is to reduce the FIB size, while=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0allowing the control plane to disseminate full routing =
information.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Firstly, it could be easily noted that in many cases mu=
ltiple<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes, some of which are less specific, share the sa=
me set of the<br>
***************<br>
*** 1550,1563 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6769] and only install the least specific route in =
the FIB,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ignoring more specific routes if they share the same ne=
xt-hop set.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0For example, under normal network conditions, only the =
default route<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 need to be programmed into FIB.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Furthermore, if the Tier-2 devices are configured with =
summary<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes covering all of their attached Tier-3 device&#39;s =
prefixes the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same logic could be applied in Tier-1 devices as well, =
and, by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0induction to Tier-2/Tier-3 switches in different cluste=
rs.=C2=A0 These<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0summary routes should still allow for more specific pre=
fixes to leak<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to Tier-1 devices, to enable for detection of mismatches in =
the next-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hop sets if a particular link fails, changing the next-=
hop set for a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specific prefix.<br>
<br>
--- 1550,1563 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6769] and only install the least specific route in =
the FIB,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ignoring more specific routes if they share the same ne=
xt-hop set.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0For example, under normal network conditions, only the =
default route<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 needs to be programmed into FIB.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Furthermore, if the Tier-2 devices are configured with =
summary<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes covering all of their attached Tier-3 device&#39;s =
prefixes, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same logic could be applied in Tier-1 devices as well, =
and, by<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0induction to Tier-2/Tier-3 switches in different cluste=
rs.=C2=A0 These<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0summary routes should still allow for more specific pre=
fixes to leak<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to Tier-1 devices, to enable detection of mismatches in the =
next-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hop sets if a particular link fails, changing the next-=
hop set for a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specific prefix.<br>
<br>
***************<br>
*** 1571,1584 ****<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Re-stating once again, this technique does not reduce t=
he amount of<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 control plane state (i.e.=C2=A0 BGP UPDATEs/BGP LocRIB sizin=
g), but only<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 allows for more efficient FIB utilization, by spotting more =
specific<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes that share their next-hops with less specifics.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 8.3.=C2=A0 ICMP Unreachable Message Masquerading<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This section discusses some operational aspects of not =
advertising<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 point-to-point link subnets into BGP, as previously outlined=
 as an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0option in Section 5.2.3.=C2=A0 The operational impact o=
f this decision<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0could be seen when using the well-known &quot;tracerout=
e&quot; tool.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Specifically, IP addresses displayed by the tool will b=
e the link&#39;s<br>
--- 1571,1585 ----<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Re-stating once again, this technique does not reduce t=
he amount of<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 control plane state (i.e.,=C2=A0 BGP UPDATEs/BGP Loc-RIB siz=
e), but only<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 allows for more efficient FIB utilization, by detecting more=
 specific<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefixes that share their next-hop set with a subsuming less=
 specific<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 prefix.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 8.3.=C2=A0 ICMP Unreachable Message Masquerading<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This section discusses some operational aspects of not =
advertising<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 point-to-point link subnets into BGP, as previously identifi=
ed as an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0option in Section 5.2.3.=C2=A0 The operational impact o=
f this decision<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0could be seen when using the well-known &quot;tracerout=
e&quot; tool.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Specifically, IP addresses displayed by the tool will b=
e the link&#39;s<br>
***************<br>
*** 1587,1605 ****<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0complicated.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0One way to overcome this limitation is by using the DNS=
 subsystem to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 create the &quot;reverse&quot; entries for the IP addresses =
of the same device<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 pointing to the same name.=C2=A0 The connectivity then can b=
e made by<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 resolving this name to the &quot;primary&quot; IP address of=
 the devices, e.g.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0its Loopback interface, which is always advertised into=
 BGP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, this creates a dependency on the DNS subsystem=
, which may be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0unavailable during an outage.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Another option is to make the network device perform IP=
 address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0masquerading, that is rewriting the source IP addresses=
 of the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 appropriate ICMP messages sent off of the device with the &q=
uot;primary&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IP address of the device.=C2=A0 Specifically, the ICMP =
Destination<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unreachable Message (type 3) codes 3 (port unreachable)=
 and ICMP Time<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Exceeded (type 11) code 0, which are involved in proper work=
ing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the &quot;traceroute&quot; tool.=C2=A0 With this modifi=
cation, the &quot;traceroute&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0probes sent to the devices will always be sent back wit=
h the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;primary&quot; IP address as the source, allowing =
the operator to discover<br>
--- 1588,1606 ----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0complicated.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0One way to overcome this limitation is by using the DNS=
 subsystem to<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 create the &quot;reverse&quot; entries for these point-to-po=
int IP addresses<br>
pointing<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to a the same name as the loopback address.=C2=A0 The connec=
tivity then<br>
can be made by<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 resolving this name to the &quot;primary&quot; IP address of=
 the devices, e.g.,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0its Loopback interface, which is always advertised into=
 BGP.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, this creates a dependency on the DNS subsystem=
, which may be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0unavailable during an outage.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Another option is to make the network device perform IP=
 address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0masquerading, that is rewriting the source IP addresses=
 of the<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 appropriate ICMP messages sent by the device with the &quot;=
primary&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IP address of the device.=C2=A0 Specifically, the ICMP =
Destination<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unreachable Message (type 3) codes 3 (port unreachable)=
 and ICMP Time<br>
!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Exceeded (type 11) code 0, which are required for correct op=
eration of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the &quot;traceroute&quot; tool.=C2=A0 With this modifi=
cation, the &quot;traceroute&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0probes sent to the devices will always be sent back wit=
h the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;primary&quot; IP address as the source, allowing =
the operator to discover<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Acee<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
rtgwg mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org">rtgwg@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1141b26696bc01053153cfed--


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From: Petr Lapukhov <petr@fb.com>
To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
Thread-Topic: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
Thread-Index: AQHRnxYlQYfeCPyXgkGAG4vr+m6GrZ+bgQ4A//+Nx4c=
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:14:18 +0000
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From: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
To: Chris Bowers <cbowers@juniper.net>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
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hi,

I am not aware of any IPR other than the one already disclosed

https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2334/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2346/

rgds,

/hannes


From nobody Wed Apr 27 17:46:19 2016
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Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc-10.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers
        Authors         : Petr Lapukhov
                          Ariff Premji
                          Jon Mitchell
	Filename        : draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc-10.txt
	Pages           : 34
	Date            : 2016-04-27

Abstract:
   Some network operators build and operate data centers that support
   over one hundred thousand servers.  In this document, such data
   centers are referred to as "large-scale" to differentiate them from
   smaller infrastructures.  Environments of this scale have a unique
   set of network requirements with an emphasis on operational
   simplicity and network stability.  This document summarizes
   operational experience in designing and operating large-scale data
   centers using BGP as the only routing protocol.  The intent is to
   report on a proven and stable routing design that could be leveraged
   by others in the industry.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtgwg-bgp-routing-large-dc-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Apr 27 17:50:22 2016
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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:50:18 -0400
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To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
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On 25/04/16 15:01 -0400, Alia Atlas wrote:
> Hi Acee,
> 
> Thank you very much for your review.
> 
> Authors, could you please respond soon?  I am hoping to get this out to
> IETF Last Call
> by Thursday - and on the telechat for May 19.    That depends on timely
> updates from
> the authors and shepherd.

Acee - thanks again for your detailed review.  Alia - we've just posted
-10 which addresses the comments.

-Jon


From nobody Wed Apr 27 20:28:35 2016
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Jeff Tantsura, a Chair of the rtgwg working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Routing Area Working Group
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Jeff Tantsura

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours, 2.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 150
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: isis mpls ospf pce idr spring
 Second Priority: bess l3sm  bier teas ccamp i2rs
 Third Priority: bfd detnet lime nvo3 pim  netmod


Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Thu Apr 28 11:01:27 2016
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References: <D343C90F.5C211%acee@cisco.com> <CAG4d1rdt8jTcJ59X0fDnVn2sEERAyB=2gjjVAnqQ5SDvUxfG0Q@mail.gmail.com> <20160428005018.GB29709@puck.nether.net>
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Subject: Re: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: Jon Mitchell <jrmitche@puck.nether.net>
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Jon,

thank you!  I'll take another read through.

Alia

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Jon Mitchell <jrmitche@puck.nether.net>
wrote:

> On 25/04/16 15:01 -0400, Alia Atlas wrote:
> > Hi Acee,
> >
> > Thank you very much for your review.
> >
> > Authors, could you please respond soon?  I am hoping to get this out to
> > IETF Last Call
> > by Thursday - and on the telechat for May 19.    That depends on timely
> > updates from
> > the authors and shepherd.
>
> Acee - thanks again for your detailed review.  Alia - we've just posted
> -10 which addresses the comments.
>
> -Jon
>

--001a113e9f667bb9f105318fc372
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Jon,<div><br></div><div>thank you!=C2=A0 I&#39;ll take ano=
ther read through.</div><div><br></div><div>Alia</div></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:50 PM,=
 Jon Mitchell <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jrmitche@puck.nether.=
net" target=3D"_blank">jrmitche@puck.nether.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 25/04/16 15:01 -0400, Alia=
 Atlas wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Acee,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thank you very much for your review.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Authors, could you please respond soon?=C2=A0 I am hoping to get this =
out to<br>
&gt; IETF Last Call<br>
&gt; by Thursday - and on the telechat for May 19.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That depend=
s on timely<br>
&gt; updates from<br>
&gt; the authors and shepherd.<br>
<br>
</span>Acee - thanks again for your detailed review.=C2=A0 Alia - we&#39;ve=
 just posted<br>
-10 which addresses the comments.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-Jon<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113e9f667bb9f105318fc372--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jon Mitchell <jrmitche@puck.nether.net>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Routing Directorate Review for "Use of BGP for routing in large-scale data centers" (adding RTG WG)
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References: <20160329.212556.1290892363387952983.mbj@tail-f.com> <3D60808E-EB76-4BE9-8281-B91B4FD83527@juniper.net> <021201d191b1$757fbe40$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <F2009F5B-0462-43F6-8A4F-D19A518A159E@juniper.net> <D33A8D1A.5B403%acee@cisco.com> <64FFAE09-4DF0-4D87-ADCF-2A319DB4F684@gmail.com> <D33AD08D.5B485%acee@cisco.com> <D34A7131.5ED8E%acee@cisco.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:10:38 -0700
Message-ID: <CAAchPMs0ksVAJubP7GsO5BjpjTjTL26Xw57DbRvM=HwL1WeacQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Cc: "draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org>, Routing WG <rtgwg@ietf.org>, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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That or we could also rename it to protocol-key-chain to disambiguate it
from system-key-chain.

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:

> So hopefully we=E2=80=99ve put the issue of combining the module to bed f=
or good=E2=80=A6
> If look at the date nodes for these two models, it is patently clear that
> these serve two different purposes.
>
> What about the naming issue? I got a comment that I should take =E2=80=9C=
routing-=E2=80=9C
> back out due to the fact that this is what that these key-chains can be
> used for many non-routing purposes. For example, BFD -
> http://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos14.2/topics/reference/con=
figuration-statement/key-chain-edit-security-authentication-key-chains.html
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> From: rtgwg <rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem <
> acee@cisco.com>
> Date: Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:04 PM
> To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> Cc: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>, Tom Petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>, "
> netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org=
"
> <draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org>, Routing WG <rtgwg@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of
> draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
>
>
>
> From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, April 18, 2016 at 4:43 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> Cc: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, Tom Petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>,
> Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>,
> Routing WG <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" <
> draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of
> draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> I did get some negative feedback with respect to adding =E2=80=9Crouting-=
=E2=80=9C to the
> model name since key chains are used for other non-routing applications a=
s
> well.
>
>
> One of those non-routing protocols is BFD. I am fine if the model is
> called protocol-key-chain, but I wonder what happens the next entity
> needing key-chain is not a protocol.
>
> The bigger question in my mind is, are these really different types of
> key-chains models, or are we talking about one key-chain model?
>
>
> The rtgwg key chain model is the one we all know and love associated with
> the graceful rollover of configurable keys. The netconf model is list of
> certificates for a public key. Please look at the information content of
> the two models. I hope I don=E2=80=99t have to answer this question again=
 ;^)
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>
>
>
>


--=20
Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

--001a1136e5a68430ce0531bb07d0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">







<p class=3D""><span class=3D"">That or we could also rename it to protocol-=
key-chain to disambiguate it from system-key-chain.</span></p></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at =
11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@c=
isco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>So hopefully we=E2=80=99ve put the issue of combining the module to be=
d for good=E2=80=A6 If look at the date nodes for these two models, it is p=
atently clear that these serve two different purposes.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What about the naming issue? I got a comment that I should take =E2=80=
=9Crouting-=E2=80=9C back out due to the fact that this is what that these =
key-chains can be used for many non-routing purposes. For example, BFD -=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"http://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos14.2/topics/r=
eference/configuration-statement/key-chain-edit-security-authentication-key=
-chains.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/=
junos14.2/topics/reference/configuration-statement/key-chain-edit-security-=
authentication-key-chains.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>rtgwg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:r=
tgwg-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:0=
4 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Mahesh Jethanandani &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mjethanandani@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Martin Bjorklund &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:mbj@tail-f.com" target=3D"_blank">mbj@tail-f.com</a>&gt;, Tom Petch=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com" target=3D"_blank">ietfc@btconne=
ct.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>netconf@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draf=
t-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Routing WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">rtgwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Netconf] mbj review o=
f draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Mahesh Jethanandani &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mjethanandani@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, April 18, 2016 at 4:4=
3 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Kent Watsen &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:kwatsen@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">kwatsen@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Tom =
Petch &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com" target=3D"_blank">ietfc@bt=
connect.com</a>&gt;, Martin Bjorklund &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mbj@tail-f.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">mbj@tail-f.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netconf@ietf.o=
rg</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netc=
onf@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Routing WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">rtgwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-rt=
gwg-keychain@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org=
</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Netconf] mbj review o=
f draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<br><span class=3D"">
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Apr 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;=
font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:no=
rmal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:norma=
l;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I
 did get some negative feedback with respect to adding =E2=80=9Crouting-=E2=
=80=9C to the</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;l=
ine-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;whit=
e-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;=
text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor=
d-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">model
 name since key chains are used for other non-routing applications as</span=
><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-v=
ariant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;t=
ext-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word=
-spacing:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;=
text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor=
d-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">well.<span>=C2=A0</span>=
</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>One of those non-routing protocols is BFD. I am fine if the model is c=
alled protocol-key-chain, but I wonder what happens the next entity needing=
 key-chain is not a protocol.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The bigger question in my mind is, are these really different types of=
 key-chains models, or are we talking about one key-chain model?</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The rtgwg key chain model is the one we all know and love associated w=
ith the graceful rollover of configurable keys. The netconf model is list o=
f certificates for a public key. Please look at the information content of =
the two models. I hope I don=E2=80=99t have
 to answer this question again ;^)=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<br>
<div>
<div>Mahesh Jethanandani</div>
<div><a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mjethanan=
dani@gmail.com</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mahesh Jethanandani<br></div><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mjethanandani@gma=
il.com</a><br></div></div>
</div>

--001a1136e5a68430ce0531bb07d0--


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Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
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Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 14:52:37 -0700
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References: <20160329.212556.1290892363387952983.mbj@tail-f.com> <3D60808E-EB76-4BE9-8281-B91B4FD83527@juniper.net> <021201d191b1$757fbe40$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <F2009F5B-0462-43F6-8A4F-D19A518A159E@juniper.net> <D33A8D1A.5B403%acee@cisco.com> <64FFAE09-4DF0-4D87-ADCF-2A319DB4F684@gmail.com> <D33AD08D.5B485%acee@cisco.com> <D34A7131.5ED8E%acee@cisco.com>
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	charset=utf-8

That or we could also rename it to protocol-key-chain to disambiguate it =
from system-key-chain.

> On Apr 30, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
>=20
> So hopefully we=E2=80=99ve put the issue of combining the module to =
bed for good=E2=80=A6 If look at the date nodes for these two models, it =
is patently clear that these serve two different purposes.=20
>=20
> What about the naming issue? I got a comment that I should take =
=E2=80=9Crouting-=E2=80=9C back out due to the fact that this is what =
that these key-chains can be used for many non-routing purposes. For =
example, BFD - =
http://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos14.2/topics/reference/conf=
iguration-statement/key-chain-edit-security-authentication-key-chains.html=
 =
<http://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos14.2/topics/reference/con=
figuration-statement/key-chain-edit-security-authentication-key-chains.htm=
l>
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee
>=20
> From: rtgwg <rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org>> =
on behalf of Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
> Date: Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:04 PM
> To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com =
<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com <mailto:mbj@tail-f.com>>, Tom =
Petch <ietfc@btconnect.com <mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com>>, =
"netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>" <netconf@ietf.org =
<mailto:netconf@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org>" =
<draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org>>, Routing WG <rtgwg@ietf.org =
<mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of =
draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
>=20
>=20
>=20
> From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com =
<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>
> Date: Monday, April 18, 2016 at 4:43 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
> Cc: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net <mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net>>, =
Tom Petch <ietfc@btconnect.com <mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com>>, Martin =
Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com <mailto:mbj@tail-f.com>>, "netconf@ietf.org =
<mailto:netconf@ietf.org>" <netconf@ietf.org <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>>, =
Routing WG <rtgwg@ietf.org <mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>>, =
"draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org>" =
<draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] mbj review of =
draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09
>=20
>=20
>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>=20
>> I did get some negative feedback with respect to adding =
=E2=80=9Crouting-=E2=80=9C to the
>> model name since key chains are used for other non-routing =
applications as
>> well.=20
>=20
> One of those non-routing protocols is BFD. I am fine if the model is =
called protocol-key-chain, but I wonder what happens the next entity =
needing key-chain is not a protocol.
>=20
> The bigger question in my mind is, are these really different types of =
key-chains models, or are we talking about one key-chain model?
>=20
> The rtgwg key chain model is the one we all know and love associated =
with the graceful rollover of configurable keys. The netconf model is =
list of certificates for a public key. Please look at the information =
content of the two models. I hope I don=E2=80=99t have to answer this =
question again ;^)=20
>=20
> Acee=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com <mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
>=20
>=20
>=20

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com <mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>






--Apple-Mail=_6E3AF9B8-B7B6-4895-AC03-D7182291BC4F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">That or we could also rename it to protocol-key-chain to =
disambiguate it from system-key-chain.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Apr =
30, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D"">

<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">So hopefully we=E2=80=99ve put the issue of combining =
the module to bed for good=E2=80=A6 If look at the date nodes for these =
two models, it is patently clear that these serve two different =
purposes.&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">What about the naming issue? I got a comment that I =
should take =E2=80=9Crouting-=E2=80=9C back out due to the fact that =
this is what that these key-chains can be used for many non-routing =
purposes. For example, BFD -&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos14.2/topics/refere=
nce/configuration-statement/key-chain-edit-security-authentication-key-cha=
ins.html" =
class=3D"">http://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos14.2/topics/ref=
erence/configuration-statement/key-chain-edit-security-authentication-key-=
chains.html</a></div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Thanks,</div>
<div class=3D"">Acee</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; =
border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">From: </span>rtgwg &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Acee Lindem =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br=
 class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Date: </span>Monday, April =
18, 2016 at 6:04 PM<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">To: </span>Mahesh =
Jethanandani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Cc: </span>Martin Bjorklund =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mbj@tail-f.com" class=3D"">mbj@tail-f.com</a>&gt;, =
Tom Petch &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com" =
class=3D"">ietfc@btconnect.com</a>&gt;, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 "<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Routing WG &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org" class=3D"">rtgwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Subject: </span>Re: =
[Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09<br =
class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" =
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;" =
class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; =
border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">From: </span>Mahesh =
Jethanandani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Date: </span>Monday, April =
18, 2016 at 4:43 PM<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">To: </span>Acee Lindem =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br=
 class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Cc: </span>Kent Watsen =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net" =
class=3D"">kwatsen@juniper.net</a>&gt;, Tom Petch &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com" =
class=3D"">ietfc@btconnect.com</a>&gt;, Martin Bjorklund &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mbj@tail-f.com" class=3D"">mbj@tail-f.com</a>&gt;,
 "<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a>" =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:netconf@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">netconf@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Routing WG &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org" class=3D"">rtgwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org</a>"
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-rtgwg-keychain@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold" class=3D"">Subject: </span>Re: =
[Netconf] mbj review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-server-model-09<br =
class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" =
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;" =
class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Apr 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I
 did get some negative feedback with respect to adding =E2=80=9Crouting-=E2=
=80=9C to the</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">model
 name since key chains are used for other non-routing applications =
as</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">well.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">One of those non-routing protocols is BFD. I am fine if =
the model is called protocol-key-chain, but I wonder what happens the =
next entity needing key-chain is not a protocol.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">The bigger question in my mind is, are these really =
different types of key-chains models, or are we talking about one =
key-chain model?</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">The rtgwg key chain model is the one we all know and =
love associated with the graceful rollover of configurable keys. The =
netconf model is list of certificates for a public key. Please look at =
the information content of the two models. I hope I don=E2=80=99t have
 to answer this question again ;^)&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Acee&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=3D"">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" =
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;" =
class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Mahesh Jethanandani</div>
<div class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</div>

</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"=
 class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Mahesh Jethanandani</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_6E3AF9B8-B7B6-4895-AC03-D7182291BC4F--

