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From: James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us>
To: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Thread-Topic: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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Paul=0A=
=0A=
In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support for pro=
viders but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is that, in a ca=
ll from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must offer OPUS even =
though the audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I d=
on't recall seeing any argument for requiring transcoding in this case; the=
re would be no benefit in audio quality.=0A=
=0A=
Best regards=0A=
=0A=
James=0A=
=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.m=
it.edu>=0A=
Sent: 01 October 2019 20:15=0A=
To: rum@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements=0A=
=0A=
In the discussion thread that followed the attached message it started=0A=
to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the requirements,=0A=
and/or requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those=0A=
that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.=0A=
=0A=
Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see people=0A=
step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should be.=0A=
=0A=
While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider what=0A=
else might need to differ.=0A=
=0A=
        Thanks,=0A=
        Paul=0A=
=0A=
-------- Forwarded Message --------=0A=
Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01=0A=
Resent-From: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu=0A=
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400=0A=
From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>=0A=
To: rum@ietf.org=0A=
=0A=
draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It now simply=0A=
references webrtc RFC7742.=0A=
=0A=
RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC browser",=0A=
"WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it assumes=0A=
that each end is one of these.=0A=
=0A=
Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply with=0A=
one of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a=0A=
"WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:=0A=
=0A=
    "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to implement any video codecs=0A=
    they see fit.  This follows logically from the definition of "WebRTC-=
=0A=
    compatible endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to implement at=0A=
    least one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC browsers,=0A=
    and implementors are encouraged to do so.=0A=
=0A=
Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to reference webrtc=0A=
RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between "WebRTC browser",=0A=
"WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies the=0A=
same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. I=0A=
don't know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for video.=
=0A=
=0A=
I think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems like=0A=
we need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we may=0A=
still reference these docs with qualifications.=0A=
=0A=
        Thanks,=0A=
        Paul=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
Rum mailing list=0A=
Rum@ietf.org=0A=
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailma=
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25zcbabu7vIDBK1XllKKO2g7RstAehUCAqLal9VAcn2JjWNhbLeuauSs&typo=3D0=0A=
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--=0A=
Rum mailing list=0A=
Rum@ietf.org=0A=
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Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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Mandatory to Implement doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to use.  In the =
example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is =
appropriate, and transcoding would not be advisable.

The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text would be =
helpful in the document.

Brian

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us> =
wrote:
>=20
> Paul
>=20
> In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support =
for providers but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is =
that, in a call from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must =
offer OPUS even though the audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM =
over the PSTN. I don't recall seeing any argument for requiring =
transcoding in this case; there would be no benefit in audio quality.
>=20
> Best regards
>=20
> James
>=20
> ________________________________________
> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> on =
behalf of Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
> Sent: 01 October 2019 20:15
> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
>=20
> In the discussion thread that followed the attached message it started
> to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the =
requirements,
> and/or requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those
> that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.
>=20
> Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see people
> step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should =
be.
>=20
> While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider =
what
> else might need to differ.
>=20
>        Thanks,
>        Paul
>=20
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01
> Resent-From: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400
> From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
> To: rum@ietf.org
>=20
> draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It now simply
> references webrtc RFC7742.
>=20
> RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC browser",
> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it =
assumes
> that each end is one of these.
>=20
> Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply with
> one of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a
> "WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:
>=20
>    "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to implement any video =
codecs
>    they see fit.  This follows logically from the definition of =
"WebRTC-
>    compatible endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to implement at
>    least one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC browsers,
>    and implementors are encouraged to do so.
>=20
> Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to reference =
webrtc
> RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between "WebRTC =
browser",
> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies the
> same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. I
> don't know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for =
video.
>=20
> I think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems =
like
> we need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we =
may
> still reference these docs with qualifications.
>=20
>        Thanks,
>        Paul
>=20
> --
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org
> =
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailm=
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> --
> Rum mailing list
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Mandatory to Implement doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to use. =
&nbsp;In the example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 =
only is appropriate, and transcoding would not be advisable.<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The IETF folk understand =
MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text would be helpful in the =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Brian<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, =
James Hamlin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us" =
class=3D"">james.hamlin@purple.us</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Paul</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, =
there's an exemption from VP8 support for providers but no exemption =
from Opus support. The implication is that, in a call from the PSTN =
using Voice Carry Over, the provider must offer OPUS even though the =
audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I don't =
recall seeing any argument for requiring transcoding in this case; there =
would be no benefit in audio quality.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Best regards</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">James</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">From: Rum &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt; on behalf of Paul Kyzivat =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a><span=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Sent: 01 October 2019 =
20:15</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing =
RUE and Provider requirements</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">In the discussion thread that followed the attached message =
it started</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">to become =
apparent that there is a need to distinguish the requirements,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">and/or requirement strength, =
that apply to the RUE itself from those</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Now that we have a wg draft to =
work from, I would like to see people</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences =
should be.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">While the =
prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider what</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">else might need to =
differ.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">-------- Forwarded Message =
--------</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Subject: =
[Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Resent-From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">From: Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt;</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">To: <a href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It =
now simply</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">references =
webrtc RFC7742.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC =
browser",</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"WebRTC =
non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it =
assumes</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">that each end =
is one of these.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider =
comply with</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">one of these? =
In particular, that the provider may simply be a</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"WebRTC-compatible endpoint? =
Notably:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to =
implement any video codecs</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they see fit. &nbsp;This follows logically =
from the definition of "WebRTC-</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;compatible endpoint". &nbsp;It is, of =
course, advisable to implement at</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;least one of the video codecs that is =
mandated for WebRTC browsers,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and implementors are encouraged to do =
so.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Similarly, =
the audio requirements have been changed to reference webrtc</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">RFC7874. That one doesn't have =
the distinction between "WebRTC browser",</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">"WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It =
applies the</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">same =
requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. =
I</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">don't know =
why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for =
video.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I think =
simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems =
like</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">we need a =
more nuanced specification of what is required, though we may</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">still reference these docs with =
qualifications.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
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The point is that if we say it=E2=80=99s OK not to implement Opus, it =
means we will still be using G.711 in 2120, long after the last 3,000 Hz =
toll facility has crumbled into dust.

By saying Opus is Mandatory to Implement, it means you can feel free to =
use G.711 if that=E2=80=99s what is offered, but when you look in the =
other direction you are able to accept a more modern codec. Also, Opus =
is infinitely better for people with partial hearing loss than G.711 - =
it can be the difference between being able to still use audio, being =
able to use just a CTS service, or if needed a full VRS service. These =
are the kinds of things we think about in the IETF to support legacy =
networks while creating useful services that are not simply replicas of =
legacy services.

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net> wrote:
>=20
> Mandatory to Implement doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to use.  In the =
example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is =
appropriate, and transcoding would not be advisable.
>=20
> The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text would =
be helpful in the document.
>=20
> Brian
>=20
>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us =
<mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Paul
>>=20
>> In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support =
for providers but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is =
that, in a call from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must =
offer OPUS even though the audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM =
over the PSTN. I don't recall seeing any argument for requiring =
transcoding in this case; there would be no benefit in audio quality.
>>=20
>> Best regards
>>=20
>> James
>>=20
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> on =
behalf of Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>> Sent: 01 October 2019 20:15
>> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
>>=20
>> In the discussion thread that followed the attached message it =
started
>> to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the =
requirements,
>> and/or requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those
>> that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.
>>=20
>> Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see people
>> step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should =
be.
>>=20
>> While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider =
what
>> else might need to differ.
>>=20
>>        Thanks,
>>        Paul
>>=20
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01
>> Resent-From: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400
>> From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>>=20
>> draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It now =
simply
>> references webrtc RFC7742.
>>=20
>> RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC browser",
>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it =
assumes
>> that each end is one of these.
>>=20
>> Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply =
with
>> one of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a
>> "WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:
>>=20
>>    "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to implement any video =
codecs
>>    they see fit.  This follows logically from the definition of =
"WebRTC-
>>    compatible endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to implement at
>>    least one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC =
browsers,
>>    and implementors are encouraged to do so.
>>=20
>> Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to reference =
webrtc
>> RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between "WebRTC =
browser",
>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies =
the
>> same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. I
>> don't know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for =
video.
>>=20
>> I think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems =
like
>> we need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we =
may
>> still reference these docs with qualifications.
>>=20
>>        Thanks,
>>        Paul
>>=20
>> --
>> Rum mailing list
>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>> =
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailm=
an%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,Fpj3uNl4KHZVkbPWDbLGqfVwMGBdbeBLTsOB6QL2I3YozM=
nj25zcbabu7vIDBK1XllKKO2g7RstAehUCAqLal9VAcn2JjWNhbLeuauSs&typo=3D0 =
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmail=
man%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,Fpj3uNl4KHZVkbPWDbLGqfVwMGBdbeBLTsOB6QL2I3Yoz=
Mnj25zcbabu7vIDBK1XllKKO2g7RstAehUCAqLal9VAcn2JjWNhbLeuauSs&typo=3D0>
>>=20
>> --
>> Rum mailing list
>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>> =
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailm=
an%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,G7A8JW3tfx9hiDhscPDTeHCoLWUSZAbId59jwHnCzDyqC3=
9OUhM8kWYkfV9kiAEQFFRR9WYYMFy1o70xg8b-0emBXUamnQT4emSupy2-U8Yb5E-WvU4iSpdS=
VqQ,&typo=3D0 =
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmail=
man%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,G7A8JW3tfx9hiDhscPDTeHCoLWUSZAbId59jwHnCzDyqC=
39OUhM8kWYkfV9kiAEQFFRR9WYYMFy1o70xg8b-0emBXUamnQT4emSupy2-U8Yb5E-WvU4iSpd=
SVqQ,&typo=3D0>
>>=20
>> --
>> Rum mailing list
>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum>
> --
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum


--Apple-Mail=_855D5F7F-19FA-4AFB-8414-8F23A2A52761
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">The =
point is that if we say it=E2=80=99s OK not to implement Opus, it means =
we will still be using G.711 in 2120, long after the last 3,000 Hz toll =
facility has crumbled into dust.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">By saying Opus is Mandatory to Implement, it means you can =
feel free to use G.711 if that=E2=80=99s what is offered, but when you =
look in the other direction you are able to accept a more modern codec. =
Also, Opus is infinitely better for people with partial hearing loss =
than G.711 - it can be the difference between being able to still use =
audio, being able to use just a CTS service, or if needed a full VRS =
service. These are the kinds of things we think about in the IETF to =
support legacy networks while creating useful services that are not =
simply replicas of legacy services.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov =
4, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Brian Rosen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net"=
 class=3D"">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Mandatory to Implement =
doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to use. &nbsp;In the example of an =
incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is appropriate, and =
transcoding would not be advisable.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The IETF folk understand MTI, but =
perhaps some explanatory text would be helpful in the =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Brian<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, =
James Hamlin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us" =
class=3D"">james.hamlin@purple.us</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Paul</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, =
there's an exemption from VP8 support for providers but no exemption =
from Opus support. The implication is that, in a call from the PSTN =
using Voice Carry Over, the provider must offer OPUS even though the =
audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I don't =
recall seeing any argument for requiring transcoding in this case; there =
would be no benefit in audio quality.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Best regards</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">James</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">From: Rum &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt; on behalf of Paul Kyzivat =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a><span=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Sent: 01 October 2019 =
20:15</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing =
RUE and Provider requirements</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">In the discussion thread that followed the attached message =
it started</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">to become =
apparent that there is a need to distinguish the requirements,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">and/or requirement strength, =
that apply to the RUE itself from those</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Now that we have a wg draft to =
work from, I would like to see people</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences =
should be.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">While the =
prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider what</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">else might need to =
differ.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">-------- Forwarded Message =
--------</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Subject: =
[Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Resent-From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">From: Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt;</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">To: <a href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It =
now simply</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">references =
webrtc RFC7742.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC =
browser",</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"WebRTC =
non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it =
assumes</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">that each end =
is one of these.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider =
comply with</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">one of these? =
In particular, that the provider may simply be a</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"WebRTC-compatible endpoint? =
Notably:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to =
implement any video codecs</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they see fit. &nbsp;This follows logically =
from the definition of "WebRTC-</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;compatible endpoint". &nbsp;It is, of =
course, advisable to implement at</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;least one of the video codecs that is =
mandated for WebRTC browsers,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and implementors are encouraged to do =
so.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Similarly, =
the audio requirements have been changed to reference webrtc</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">RFC7874. That one doesn't have =
the distinction between "WebRTC browser",</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">"WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It =
applies the</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">same =
requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. =
I</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">don't know =
why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for =
video.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I think =
simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems =
like</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">we need a =
more nuanced specification of what is required, though we may</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">still reference these docs with =
qualifications.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
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12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">--</span><br style=3D"caret-color:=
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text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
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normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
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From nobody Mon Nov  4 08:23:20 2019
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From: James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
CC: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Thread-Topic: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 16:23:04 +0000
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References: <a3d82911-8d07-16a3-780b-0592e48e37bd@alum.mit.edu> <ab68a7fb-7196-4374-7cd4-baf9a03cf6ff@alum.mit.edu> <1572872182151.78082@purple.us>, <9717D87D-A48F-47C3-AD75-5908BAF7A649@brianrosen.net>
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Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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Thanks Brian


I understand your interpretation of MTI, but I know that someone writing a =
test schedule based on the RUM document will write a test that expects to s=
ee all MTI codecs in any offer SDP; and from reading the RFCs it will be di=
fficult to positively show that they are wrong.


So I agree that some explanatory text would fix this.


James



________________________________
From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
Sent: 04 November 2019 15:33
To: James Hamlin
Cc: rum@ietf.org; Paul Kyzivat
Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements

Mandatory to Implement doesn=92t mean mandatory to use.  In the example of =
an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is appropriate, and tra=
nscoding would not be advisable.

The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text would be he=
lpful in the document.

Brian

On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us<mailto:jam=
es.hamlin@purple.us>> wrote:

Paul

In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support for pro=
viders but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is that, in a ca=
ll from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must offer OPUS even =
though the audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I d=
on't recall seeing any argument for requiring transcoding in this case; the=
re would be no benefit in audio quality.

Best regards

James

________________________________________
From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
Sent: 01 October 2019 20:15
To: rum@ietf.org<mailto:rum@ietf.org>
Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements

In the discussion thread that followed the attached message it started
to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the requirements,
and/or requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those
that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.

Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see people
step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should be.

While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider what
else might need to differ.

       Thanks,
       Paul

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01
Resent-From: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400
From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
To: rum@ietf.org<mailto:rum@ietf.org>

draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It now simply
references webrtc RFC7742.

RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC browser",
"WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it assumes
that each end is one of these.

Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply with
one of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a
"WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:

   "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to implement any video codecs
   they see fit.  This follows logically from the definition of "WebRTC-
   compatible endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to implement at
   least one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC browsers,
   and implementors are encouraged to do so.

Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to reference webrtc
RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between "WebRTC browser",
"WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies the
same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. I
don't know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for video.

I think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems like
we need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we may
still reference these docs with qualifications.

       Thanks,
       Paul

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<head>
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252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none"><!--P{margin-top:0;margin-b=
ottom:0;} --></style>
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<body dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#F=
FFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>Thanks Brian</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I understand your interpretation of MTI, but I know that someone writing=
 a test schedule based on the RUM document will write a test that expects t=
o see all MTI codecs in any offer SDP; and from reading the RFCs it will be=
 difficult to positively&nbsp;show that
 they are wrong.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>So I agree that some explanatory&nbsp;text would fix this. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>James<br>
</p>
<p>&nbsp;<br>
</p>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Brian Rosen &lt;br@=
brianrosen.net&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 November 2019 15:33<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hamlin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rum@ietf.org; Paul Kyzivat<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements</fon=
t>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>Mandatory to Implement doesn=92t mean mandatory to use. &nbsp;In the e=
xample of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is appropriat=
e, and transcoding would not be advisable.
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps some explanatory =
text would be helpful in the document.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Brian<br class=3D"">
<div><br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James Hamlin &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:james.hamlin@purple.us" class=3D"">james.hamlin@purple.us</a>&gt; wrote=
:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:=
12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-al=
ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s=
pacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Pau=
l</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font=
-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start;=
 text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px=
; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">In
 the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support for provi=
ders but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is that, in a call=
 from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must offer OPUS even th=
ough the audio content is constrained
 to 8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I don't recall seeing any argument for req=
uiring transcoding in this case; there would be no benefit in audio quality=
.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font=
-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start;=
 text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px=
; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Best
 regards</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12p=
x; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align=
:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spac=
ing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">James</span><br cla=
ss=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; =
font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0p=
x; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decorati=
on:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">___________________=
_____________________</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; =
font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:norma=
l; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:norm=
al; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">From:
 Rum &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" class=3D"" style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:norm=
al; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px;=
 text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">ru=
m-bounces@ietf.org</a><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font=
-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; t=
ext-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; =
word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!importan=
t">&gt;
 on behalf of Paul Kyzivat &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.e=
du" class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:=
start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:aut=
o; word-spacing:0px">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a><span class=3D"" style=3D"fon=
t-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; =
letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:no=
ne; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; float:none;=
 display:inline!important">&gt;</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:H=
elvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spa=
cing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-=
space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Sent:
 01 October 2019 20:15</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;=
 font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:norm=
al; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:nor=
mal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">To:<span class=3D"A=
pple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" c=
lass=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal=
; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start=
; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; wo=
rd-spacing:0px">rum@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helveti=
ca; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:n=
ormal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:=
normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Subject:
 [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements</span><br class=3D"" st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weigh=
t:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-tr=
ansform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">In
 the discussion thread that followed the attached message it started</span>=
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">to
 become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the requirements,</spa=
n><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">and/or
 requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those</span><br cl=
ass=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal;=
 font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0=
px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decorat=
ion:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">that
 apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:norm=
al; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transfor=
m:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Now
 that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see people</span><br=
 class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:norm=
al; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-inden=
t:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-deco=
ration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">step
 forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should be.</span><=
br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:no=
rmal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-ind=
ent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-de=
coration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">While
 the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider what</span><b=
r class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:nor=
mal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-inde=
nt:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-dec=
oration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">else
 might need to differ.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;=
 font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:norm=
al; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:nor=
mal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:He=
lvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spac=
ing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-s=
pace:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing=
:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-spac=
e:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">--------
 Forwarded Message --------</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing=
:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-spac=
e:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Subject:
 [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01</span><br class=3D"" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:n=
ormal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-trans=
form:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Resent-From:
<a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</=
a></span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; fon=
t-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start=
; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0p=
x; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Date:
 Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-sp=
acing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white=
-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">From:
 Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" class=3D"">pkyzi=
vat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt;</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetic=
a; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:no=
rmal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:n=
ormal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">To:
<a href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a></span><br class=
=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; fo=
nt-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px;=
 text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration=
:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">draft-rosen-rue-01
 changes the video codec requirements. It now simply</span><br class=3D"" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weig=
ht:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-t=
ransform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">references
 webrtc RFC7742.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-=
size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; te=
xt-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; w=
ord-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">RFC7742
 distinguishes three types of endpoints: &quot;WebRTC browser&quot;,</span>=
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&quot;WebRTC
 non-browser&quot;, and &quot;WebRTC-compatible endpoint&quot;. AFAIK it as=
sumes</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; =
font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:st=
art; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing=
:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">that
 each end is one of these.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvet=
ica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:=
normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space=
:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Is
 the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply with</span>=
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">one
 of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a</span><br class=
=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; fo=
nt-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px;=
 text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration=
:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&quot;WebRTC-compat=
ible
 endpoint? Notably:</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; fo=
nt-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;=
 text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal=
; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
quot;WebRTC-compatible
 endpoints&quot; are free to implement any video codecs</span><br class=3D"=
" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-w=
eight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; tex=
t-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:non=
e">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;t=
hey
 see fit. &nbsp;This follows logically from the definition of &quot;WebRTC-=
</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-=
style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; =
text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px;=
 text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;c=
ompatible
 endpoint&quot;. &nbsp;It is, of course, advisable to implement at</span><b=
r class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:nor=
mal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-inde=
nt:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-dec=
oration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;l=
east
 one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC browsers,</span><br cl=
ass=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal;=
 font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0=
px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decorat=
ion:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a=
nd
 implementors are encouraged to do so.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; let=
ter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;=
 white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">Similarly,
 the audio requirements have been changed to reference webrtc</span><br cla=
ss=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; =
font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0p=
x; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decorati=
on:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">RFC7874.
 That one doesn't have the distinction between &quot;WebRTC browser&quot;,<=
/span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-s=
tyle:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; t=
ext-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; =
text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&quot;WebRTC
 non-browser&quot;, and &quot;WebRTC-compatible endpoint&quot;. It applies =
the</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; fo=
nt-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:star=
t; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0=
px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">same
 requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. I</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:norma=
l; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent=
:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decor=
ation:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">don't
 know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for video.</spa=
n><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">I
 think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems like</spa=
n><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">we
 need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we may</span=
><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:=
normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-i=
ndent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-=
decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">still
 reference these docs with qualifications.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal;=
 letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:n=
one; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:He=
lvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spac=
ing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-s=
pace:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing=
:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-spac=
e:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:n=
ormal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-d=
ecoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style=
:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text=
-decoration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">--</span><br class=
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nt-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px;=
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:none">
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:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-=
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font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:norma=
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Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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I=E2=80=99ll add some explanatory text.

I think the example you gave is probably a good illustration of MTI vs =
MTU.

Brian

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 11:23 AM, James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us> =
wrote:
>=20
> Thanks Brian
>=20
> I understand your interpretation of MTI, but I know that someone =
writing a test schedule based on the RUM document will write a test that =
expects to see all MTI codecs in any offer SDP; and from reading the =
RFCs it will be difficult to positively show that they are wrong.
>=20
> So I agree that some explanatory text would fix this.=20
>=20
> James
> =20
> From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
> Sent: 04 November 2019 15:33
> To: James Hamlin
> Cc: rum@ietf.org; Paul Kyzivat
> Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
> =20
> Mandatory to Implement doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to use.  In the =
example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is =
appropriate, and transcoding would not be advisable.
>=20
> The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text would =
be helpful in the document.
>=20
> Brian
>=20
>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us =
<mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Paul
>>=20
>> In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support =
for providers but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is =
that, in a call from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must =
offer OPUS even though the audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM =
over the PSTN. I don't recall seeing any argument for requiring =
transcoding in this case; there would be no benefit in audio quality.
>>=20
>> Best regards
>>=20
>> James
>>=20
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> on =
behalf of Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>> Sent: 01 October 2019 20:15
>> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
>>=20
>> In the discussion thread that followed the attached message it =
started
>> to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the =
requirements,
>> and/or requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those
>> that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.
>>=20
>> Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see people
>> step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should =
be.
>>=20
>> While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider =
what
>> else might need to differ.
>>=20
>>        Thanks,
>>        Paul
>>=20
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01
>> Resent-From: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400
>> From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>>=20
>> draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It now =
simply
>> references webrtc RFC7742.
>>=20
>> RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC browser",
>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it =
assumes
>> that each end is one of these.
>>=20
>> Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply =
with
>> one of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a
>> "WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:
>>=20
>>    "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to implement any video =
codecs
>>    they see fit.  This follows logically from the definition of =
"WebRTC-
>>    compatible endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to implement at
>>    least one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC =
browsers,
>>    and implementors are encouraged to do so.
>>=20
>> Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to reference =
webrtc
>> RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between "WebRTC =
browser",
>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies =
the
>> same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. I
>> don't know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for =
video.
>>=20
>> I think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems =
like
>> we need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we =
may
>> still reference these docs with qualifications.
>>=20
>>        Thanks,
>>        Paul
>>=20
>> --
>> Rum mailing list
>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
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>> --
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ll add some explanatory text.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I think the example you gave is =
probably a good illustration of MTI vs MTU.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Brian<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov =
4, 2019, at 11:23 AM, James Hamlin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us" =
class=3D"">james.hamlin@purple.us</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Thanks Brian</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">I understand your interpretation of =
MTI, but I know that someone writing a test schedule based on the RUM =
document will write a test that expects to see all MTI codecs in any =
offer SDP; and from reading the RFCs it will be difficult to =
positively&nbsp;show that they are wrong.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D"">So I agree that some explanatory&nbsp;text would fix =
this.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">James<br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><hr tabindex=3D"-1"=
 style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 895.71875px;" class=3D""><div =
id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri, =
sans-serif" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Brian Rosen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" class=3D"">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>04 November 2019 15:33<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>James Hamlin<br class=3D""><b=
 class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a>; Paul =
Kyzivat<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Rum] Distinguishing =
RUE and Provider requirements</font><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></div><div=
 class=3D"">Mandatory to Implement doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to =
use. &nbsp;In the example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering =
G.711 only is appropriate, and transcoding would not be advisable.<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The IETF folk understand =
MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text would be helpful in the =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Brian<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, =
James Hamlin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us" =
class=3D"">james.hamlin@purple.us</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Paul</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">In the =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support for =
providers but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is that, =
in a call from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must offer =
OPUS even though the audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM over =
the PSTN. I don't recall seeing any argument for requiring transcoding =
in this case; there would be no benefit in audio quality.</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Best regards</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">James</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">________________________________________</span><br class=3D""=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">From: Rum &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px;">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&gt; on behalf of Paul Kyzivat &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: =
0px;">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&gt;</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Sent: =
01 October 2019 20:15</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: =
0px;">rum@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider =
requirements</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">In the =
discussion thread that followed the attached message it =
started</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the =
requirements,</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">and/or =
requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to =
see people</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">step =
forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should =
be.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also =
consider what</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">else =
might need to differ.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">-------- Forwarded Message --------</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in =
draft-rosen-rue-01</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Resent-From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a></span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">From: Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt;</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a></span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It =
now simply</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">references webrtc RFC7742.</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC =
browser",</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">"WebRTC =
non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it =
assumes</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">that each end is one of these.</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider =
comply with</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">one of =
these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">"WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to =
implement any video codecs</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they see fit. &nbsp;This follows =
logically from the definition of "WebRTC-</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;compatible endpoint". &nbsp;It is, of =
course, advisable to implement at</span><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;least one of the video codecs that is =
mandated for WebRTC browsers,</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and implementors are encouraged to do =
so.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to =
reference webrtc</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between =
"WebRTC browser",</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">"WebRTC =
non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies the</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS =
support. I</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">don't =
know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for =
video.</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">I think simply referencing these documents isn't =
sufficient. Seems like</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">we need =
a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we =
may</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">still reference these docs with qualifications.</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
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style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">--</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
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text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
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style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
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font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
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text-decoration: none;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
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Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
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text-decoration: none;"><a =
href=3D"https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org=
%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2frum&amp;c=3DE,1,G7A8JW3tfx9hiDhscPDTeHCoLWUSZAbId5=
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From nobody Mon Nov  4 13:21:02 2019
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipment
        Author          : Brian Rosen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2019-11-04

Abstract:
   Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by
   which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing
   user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected via
   a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to the
   hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the
   videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the
   interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a
   "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video
   service that allows users to connect video devices to their service,
   and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH users.  It is desirable
   that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a
   standard so that any device may be used with any provider and that
   video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work.  This document
   describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rum-rue-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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To: rum@ietf.org
References: <a3d82911-8d07-16a3-780b-0592e48e37bd@alum.mit.edu> <ab68a7fb-7196-4374-7cd4-baf9a03cf6ff@alum.mit.edu> <1572872182151.78082@purple.us> <9717D87D-A48F-47C3-AD75-5908BAF7A649@brianrosen.net> <47E7BD6C-228D-450F-9ADE-9C0D7B2277DB@standardstrack.com>
From: Keith Drage <drageke@ntlworld.com>
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 18:38:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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Out of interest, do you have any reference to research papers that have 
evaluated different codecs for use by the hard of hearing, and in 
particular that justify the statement "Opus is infinitely better for 
people with partial hearing loss than G.711".


Keith

On 04/11/2019 15:39, Eric Burger wrote:
> The point is that if we say it’s OK not to implement Opus, it means we 
> will still be using G.711 in 2120, long after the last 3,000 Hz toll 
> facility has crumbled into dust.
>
> By saying Opus is Mandatory to Implement, it means you can feel free 
> to use G.711 if that’s what is offered, but when you look in the other 
> direction you are able to accept a more modern codec. Also, Opus is 
> infinitely better for people with partial hearing loss than G.711 - it 
> can be the difference between being able to still use audio, being 
> able to use just a CTS service, or if needed a full VRS service. These 
> are the kinds of things we think about in the IETF to support legacy 
> networks while creating useful services that are not simply replicas 
> of legacy services.
>
>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net 
>> <mailto:br@brianrosen.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Mandatory to Implement doesn’t mean mandatory to use.  In the example 
>> of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is 
>> appropriate, and transcoding would not be advisable.
>>
>> The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text would 
>> be helpful in the document.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us 
>>> <mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support 
>>> for providers but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is 
>>> that, in a call from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider 
>>> must offer OPUS even though the audio content is constrained to 
>>> 8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I don't recall seeing any argument for 
>>> requiring transcoding in this case; there would be no benefit in 
>>> audio quality.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> on 
>>> behalf of Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu 
>>> <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>>> Sent: 01 October 2019 20:15
>>> To:rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>>> Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
>>>
>>> In the discussion thread that followed the attached message it started
>>> to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the requirements,
>>> and/or requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from those
>>> that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.
>>>
>>> Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see people
>>> step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should be.
>>>
>>> While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider what
>>> else might need to differ.
>>>
>>>        Thanks,
>>>        Paul
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01
>>> Resent-From: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
>>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400
>>> From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu 
>>> <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>>> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>>>
>>> draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It now simply
>>> references webrtc RFC7742.
>>>
>>> RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC browser",
>>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it assumes
>>> that each end is one of these.
>>>
>>> Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply with
>>> one of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a
>>> "WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:
>>>
>>>    "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to implement any video codecs
>>>    they see fit.  This follows logically from the definition of "WebRTC-
>>>    compatible endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to implement at
>>>    least one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC browsers,
>>>    and implementors are encouraged to do so.
>>>
>>> Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to reference webrtc
>>> RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between "WebRTC browser",
>>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies the
>>> same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. I
>>> don't know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as for 
>>> video.
>>>
>>> I think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems like
>>> we need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we may
>>> still reference these docs with qualifications.
>>>
>>>        Thanks,
>>>        Paul
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rum mailing list
>>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2frum&c=E,1,Fpj3uNl4KHZVkbPWDbLGqfVwMGBdbeBLTsOB6QL2I3YozMnj25zcbabu7vIDBK1XllKKO2g7RstAehUCAqLal9VAcn2JjWNhbLeuauSs&typo=0
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rum mailing list
>>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2frum&c=E,1,G7A8JW3tfx9hiDhscPDTeHCoLWUSZAbId59jwHnCzDyqC39OUhM8kWYkfV9kiAEQFFRR9WYYMFy1o70xg8b-0emBXUamnQT4emSupy2-U8Yb5E-WvU4iSpdSVqQ,&typo=0
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rum mailing list
>>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum
>>
>> -- 
>> Rum mailing list
>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum
>
>

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    <p>Out of interest, do you have any reference to research papers
      that have evaluated different codecs for use by the hard of
      hearing, and in particular that justify the statement "Opus is
      infinitely better for people with partial hearing loss than
      G.711".</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Keith<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/11/2019 15:39, Eric Burger wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:47E7BD6C-228D-450F-9ADE-9C0D7B2277DB@standardstrack.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      The point is that if we say it’s OK not to implement Opus, it
      means we will still be using G.711 in 2120, long after the last
      3,000 Hz toll facility has crumbled into dust.
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">By saying Opus is Mandatory to Implement, it means
        you can feel free to use G.711 if that’s what is offered, but
        when you look in the other direction you are able to accept a
        more modern codec. Also, Opus is infinitely better for people
        with partial hearing loss than G.711 - it can be the difference
        between being able to still use audio, being able to use just a
        CTS service, or if needed a full VRS service. These are the
        kinds of things we think about in the IETF to support legacy
        networks while creating useful services that are not simply
        replicas of legacy services.<br class="">
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Brian Rosen &lt;<a
                href="mailto:br@brianrosen.net" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                charset=UTF-8" class="">
              <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Mandatory
                to Implement doesn’t mean mandatory to use.  In the
                example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering
                G.711 only is appropriate, and transcoding would not be
                advisable.
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps
                  some explanatory text would be helpful in the
                  document.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Brian<br class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                      <div class="">On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James
                        Hamlin &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us" class=""
                          moz-do-not-send="true">james.hamlin@purple.us</a>&gt;
                        wrote:</div>
                      <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                      <div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
                          0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Paul</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">In the
                          draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption
                          from VP8 support for providers but no
                          exemption from Opus support. The implication
                          is that, in a call from the PSTN using Voice
                          Carry Over, the provider must offer OPUS even
                          though the audio content is constrained to
                          8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I don't recall
                          seeing any argument for requiring transcoding
                          in this case; there would be no benefit in
                          audio quality.</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Best
                          regards</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0,
                          0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                          12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                          normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                          normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">James</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">________________________________________</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">From:
                          Rum &lt;</span><a
                          href="mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org"
                          style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                          12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
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                          white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                          auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"
                          class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a><span
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
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                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">&gt; on
                          behalf of Paul Kyzivat &lt;</span><a
                          href="mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu"
                          style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                          12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
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                          class="" moz-do-not-send="true">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a><span
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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                          display: inline !important;" class="">&gt;</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
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                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Sent: 01
                          October 2019 20:15</span><br
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                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">To:<span
                            class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a
                          href="mailto:rum@ietf.org" style="font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
                          0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                          normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""
                          moz-do-not-send="true">rum@ietf.org</a><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Subject:
                          [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider
                          requirements</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">In the
                          discussion thread that followed the attached
                          message it started</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">to
                          become apparent that there is a need to
                          distinguish the requirements,</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">and/or
                          requirement strength, that apply to the RUE
                          itself from those</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">that
                          apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Now that
                          we have a wg draft to work from, I would like
                          to see people</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">step
                          forward and make proposal(s) for what those
                          differences should be.</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">While
                          the prior discussion focused on codecs, please
                          also consider what</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">else
                          might need to differ.</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">       Thanks,</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">       Paul</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">--------
                          Forwarded Message --------</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Subject:
                          [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Resent-From:
                          <a href="mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu"
                            class="" moz-do-not-send="true">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a></span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Date:
                          Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">From:
                          Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a
                            href="mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt;</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">To: <a
                            href="mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">rum@ietf.org</a></span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">draft-rosen-rue-01
                          changes the video codec requirements. It now
                          simply</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
                          0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">references
                          webrtc RFC7742.</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">RFC7742
                          distinguishes three types of endpoints:
                          "WebRTC browser",</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">"WebRTC
                          non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoint". AFAIK it assumes</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">that
                          each end is one of these.</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Is the
                          expectation here that both the RUE and the
                          provider comply with</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">one of
                          these? In particular, that the provider may
                          simply be a</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">"WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoint? Notably:</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">   "WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoints" are free to implement any video
                          codecs</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
                          0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">   they
                          see fit.  This follows logically from the
                          definition of "WebRTC-</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">   compatible
                          endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to
                          implement at</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">   least
                          one of the video codecs that is mandated for
                          WebRTC browsers,</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">   and
                          implementors are encouraged to do so.</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Similarly,
                          the audio requirements have been changed to
                          reference webrtc</span><br style="caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">RFC7874.
                          That one doesn't have the distinction between
                          "WebRTC browser",</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">"WebRTC
                          non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoint". It applies the</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">same
                          requirements to all. In particular, it
                          requires OPUS support. I</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">don't
                          know why it doesn't make the same endpoint
                          distinctions as for video.</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">I think
                          simply referencing these documents isn't
                          sufficient. Seems like</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">we need
                          a more nuanced specification of what is
                          required, though we may</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">still
                          reference these docs with qualifications.</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">       Thanks,</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">       Paul</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">--</span><br
                          style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
                        <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class="">Rum
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Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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To name a few:

Mantokoudis, Georgios; Kompis, Martin; Dubach, Patrick; Caversaccio, =
Marco; Senn, Pascal, Speech Perception Benefits of Internet Versus =
Conventional Telephony for Hearing-Impaired Individuals, =
https://www.jmir.org/2012/4/e102/ <https://www.jmir.org/2012/4/e102/>

W=C3=A4ltermann, M.; Raake, A.; M=C3=B6ller, S., Quality Dimensions of =
Narrowband and Wideband Speech Transmission, =
https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/dav/aaua/2010/00000096/00000006/art=
00009 =
<https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/dav/aaua/2010/00000096/00000006/ar=
t00009>

Hannu Pulakka, Laura Laaksonen, Paavo Alku, Quality Improvement of =
Telephone Speech by Artificial Bandwidth Expansion =E2=80=93 Listening =
Tests in Three Languages, =
https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_12=
45.pdf =
<https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1=
245.pdf>

Yang, Xiangui, Effects of Digital Audio Quality on Students' Performance =
in LAN Delivered English Listening Comprehension Tests, =
https://etd.ohiolink.edu/pg_10?0::NO:10:P10_ACCESSION_NUM:ohiou1236796324 =
<https://etd.ohiolink.edu/pg_10?0::NO:10:P10_ACCESSION_NUM:ohiou1236796324=
>


> On Nov 4, 2019, at 1:38 PM, Keith Drage =
<drageke=3D40ntlworld.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Out of interest, do you have any reference to research papers that =
have evaluated different codecs for use by the hard of hearing, and in =
particular that justify the statement "Opus is infinitely better for =
people with partial hearing loss than G.711".
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Keith
>=20
> On 04/11/2019 15:39, Eric Burger wrote:
>> The point is that if we say it=E2=80=99s OK not to implement Opus, it =
means we will still be using G.711 in 2120, long after the last 3,000 Hz =
toll facility has crumbled into dust.
>>=20
>> By saying Opus is Mandatory to Implement, it means you can feel free =
to use G.711 if that=E2=80=99s what is offered, but when you look in the =
other direction you are able to accept a more modern codec. Also, Opus =
is infinitely better for people with partial hearing loss than G.711 - =
it can be the difference between being able to still use audio, being =
able to use just a CTS service, or if needed a full VRS service. These =
are the kinds of things we think about in the IETF to support legacy =
networks while creating useful services that are not simply replicas of =
legacy services.
>>=20
>>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net =
<mailto:br@brianrosen.net>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Mandatory to Implement doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to use.  In =
the example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering G.711 only is =
appropriate, and transcoding would not be advisable.
>>>=20
>>> The IETF folk understand MTI, but perhaps some explanatory text =
would be helpful in the document.
>>>=20
>>> Brian
>>>=20
>>>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us =
<mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Paul
>>>>=20
>>>> In the draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption from VP8 support =
for providers but no exemption from Opus support. The implication is =
that, in a call from the PSTN using Voice Carry Over, the provider must =
offer OPUS even though the audio content is constrained to 8bit*8kHz PCM =
over the PSTN. I don't recall seeing any argument for requiring =
transcoding in this case; there would be no benefit in audio quality.
>>>>=20
>>>> Best regards
>>>>=20
>>>> James
>>>>=20
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> on =
behalf of Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>>>> Sent: 01 October 2019 20:15
>>>> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>>>> Subject: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
>>>>=20
>>>> In the discussion thread that followed the attached message it =
started
>>>> to become apparent that there is a need to distinguish the =
requirements,
>>>> and/or requirement strength, that apply to the RUE itself from =
those
>>>> that apply when a RUE connects to a VRS Provider.
>>>>=20
>>>> Now that we have a wg draft to work from, I would like to see =
people
>>>> step forward and make proposal(s) for what those differences should =
be.
>>>>=20
>>>> While the prior discussion focused on codecs, please also consider =
what
>>>> else might need to differ.
>>>>=20
>>>>        Thanks,
>>>>        Paul
>>>>=20
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>> Subject: [Rum] Codec requirements in draft-rosen-rue-01
>>>> Resent-From: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
>>>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400
>>>> From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>>
>>>> To: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
>>>>=20
>>>> draft-rosen-rue-01 changes the video codec requirements. It now =
simply
>>>> references webrtc RFC7742.
>>>>=20
>>>> RFC7742 distinguishes three types of endpoints: "WebRTC browser",
>>>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". AFAIK it =
assumes
>>>> that each end is one of these.
>>>>=20
>>>> Is the expectation here that both the RUE and the provider comply =
with
>>>> one of these? In particular, that the provider may simply be a
>>>> "WebRTC-compatible endpoint? Notably:
>>>>=20
>>>>    "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" are free to implement any video =
codecs
>>>>    they see fit.  This follows logically from the definition of =
"WebRTC-
>>>>    compatible endpoint".  It is, of course, advisable to implement =
at
>>>>    least one of the video codecs that is mandated for WebRTC =
browsers,
>>>>    and implementors are encouraged to do so.
>>>>=20
>>>> Similarly, the audio requirements have been changed to reference =
webrtc
>>>> RFC7874. That one doesn't have the distinction between "WebRTC =
browser",
>>>> "WebRTC non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible endpoint". It applies =
the
>>>> same requirements to all. In particular, it requires OPUS support. =
I
>>>> don't know why it doesn't make the same endpoint distinctions as =
for video.
>>>>=20
>>>> I think simply referencing these documents isn't sufficient. Seems =
like
>>>> we need a more nuanced specification of what is required, though we =
may
>>>> still reference these docs with qualifications.
>>>>=20
>>>>        Thanks,
>>>>        Paul
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> Rum mailing list
>>>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>>>> =
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailm=
an%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,Fpj3uNl4KHZVkbPWDbLGqfVwMGBdbeBLTsOB6QL2I3YozM=
nj25zcbabu7vIDBK1XllKKO2g7RstAehUCAqLal9VAcn2JjWNhbLeuauSs&typo=3D0 =
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmail=
man%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,Fpj3uNl4KHZVkbPWDbLGqfVwMGBdbeBLTsOB6QL2I3Yoz=
Mnj25zcbabu7vIDBK1XllKKO2g7RstAehUCAqLal9VAcn2JjWNhbLeuauSs&typo=3D0>
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> Rum mailing list
>>>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>>>> =
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailm=
an%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,G7A8JW3tfx9hiDhscPDTeHCoLWUSZAbId59jwHnCzDyqC3=
9OUhM8kWYkfV9kiAEQFFRR9WYYMFy1o70xg8b-0emBXUamnQT4emSupy2-U8Yb5E-WvU4iSpdS=
VqQ,&typo=3D0 =
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmail=
man%2flistinfo%2frum&c=3DE,1,G7A8JW3tfx9hiDhscPDTeHCoLWUSZAbId59jwHnCzDyqC=
39OUhM8kWYkfV9kiAEQFFRR9WYYMFy1o70xg8b-0emBXUamnQT4emSupy2-U8Yb5E-WvU4iSpd=
SVqQ,&typo=3D0>
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> Rum mailing list
>>>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum>
>>> --
>>> Rum mailing list
>>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum>
>>=20
>>=20
> --
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum


--Apple-Mail=_FA7A744B-74E0-4A16-B654-7006658D103B
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">To name a few:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Mantokoudis, Georgios; Kompis, Martin; Dubach, Patrick; =
Caversaccio, Marco; Senn, Pascal,&nbsp;Speech Perception Benefits of =
Internet Versus Conventional Telephony for Hearing-Impaired =
Individuals,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.jmir.org/2012/4/e102/" =
class=3D"">https://www.jmir.org/2012/4/e102/</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>W=C3=A4ltermann, M.;&nbsp;Raake, A.;&nbsp;M=C3=B6ller, =
S.,&nbsp;Quality Dimensions of Narrowband and Wideband Speech =
Transmission,&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/dav/aaua/2010/00000096/0000=
0006/art00009" =
class=3D"">https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/dav/aaua/2010/00000096/0=
0000006/art00009</a><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div>Hannu Pulakka, =
Laura Laaksonen, Paavo Alku, Quality Improvement of Telephone Speech by =
Artificial Bandwidth&nbsp;Expansion =E2=80=93 Listening Tests in Three =
Languages,&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_200=
6/i06_1245.pdf" =
class=3D"">https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_=
2006/i06_1245.pdf</a></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Yang, =
Xiangui,&nbsp;Effects of Digital Audio Quality on Students' Performance =
in LAN Delivered English Listening Comprehension Tests,&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://etd.ohiolink.edu/pg_10?0::NO:10:P10_ACCESSION_NUM:ohiou123=
6796324" =
class=3D"">https://etd.ohiolink.edu/pg_10?0::NO:10:P10_ACCESSION_NUM:ohiou=
1236796324</a></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov =
4, 2019, at 1:38 PM, Keith Drage &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:drageke=3D40ntlworld.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">drageke=3D40ntlworld.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
 =20
  <div class=3D""><p class=3D"">Out of interest, do you have any =
reference to research papers
      that have evaluated different codecs for use by the hard of
      hearing, and in particular that justify the statement "Opus is
      infinitely better for people with partial hearing loss than
      G.711".</p><p class=3D""><br class=3D"">
    </p><p class=3D"">Keith<br class=3D"">
    </p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 04/11/2019 15:39, Eric Burger =
wrote:<br class=3D"">
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:47E7BD6C-228D-450F-9ADE-9C0D7B2277DB@standardstrack.com" =
class=3D"">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
      The point is that if we say it=E2=80=99s OK not to implement Opus, =
it
      means we will still be using G.711 in 2120, long after the last
      3,000 Hz toll facility has crumbled into dust.
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">By saying Opus is Mandatory to Implement, it means
        you can feel free to use G.711 if that=E2=80=99s what is =
offered, but
        when you look in the other direction you are able to accept a
        more modern codec. Also, Opus is infinitely better for people
        with partial hearing loss than G.711 - it can be the difference
        between being able to still use audio, being able to use just a
        CTS service, or if needed a full VRS service. These are the
        kinds of things we think about in the IETF to support legacy
        networks while creating useful services that are not simply
        replicas of legacy services.<br class=3D"">
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
          <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
            <div class=3D"">On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Brian Rosen =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:br@brianrosen.net" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">br@brianrosen.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
            <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class=3D"">
              <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
                charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
              <div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Mandatory
                to Implement doesn=E2=80=99t mean mandatory to use. =
&nbsp;In the
                example of an incoming call from the PSTN, offering
                G.711 only is appropriate, and transcoding would not be
                advisable.
                <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                </div>
                <div class=3D"">The IETF folk understand MTI, but =
perhaps
                  some explanatory text would be helpful in the
                  document.</div>
                <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                </div>
                <div class=3D"">Brian<br class=3D"">
                  <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                    <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
                      <div class=3D"">On Nov 4, 2019, at 7:56 AM, James
                        Hamlin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:james.hamlin@purple.us" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">james.hamlin@purple.us</a>&gt;
                        wrote:</div>
                      <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
                      <div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0,
                          0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Paul</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">In the
                          draft-ietf-rum-rue-00, there's an exemption
                          from VP8 support for providers but no
                          exemption from Opus support. The implication
                          is that, in a call from the PSTN using Voice
                          Carry Over, the provider must offer OPUS even
                          though the audio content is constrained to
                          8bit*8kHz PCM over the PSTN. I don't recall
                          seeing any argument for requiring transcoding
                          in this case; there would be no benefit in
                          audio quality.</span><br style=3D"caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Best
                          regards</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0,
                          0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                          12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                          normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                          normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">James</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">From:
                          Rum &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size:
                          12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                          normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                          normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                          text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                          auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt; =
on
                          behalf of Paul Kyzivat &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size:
                          12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                          normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                          normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                          text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                          auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&gt;</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Sent: =
01
                          October 2019 20:15</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">To:<span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
                          0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                          normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">rum@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Subject:=

                          [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider
                          requirements</span><br style=3D"caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">In the
                          discussion thread that followed the attached
                          message it started</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">to
                          become apparent that there is a need to
                          distinguish the requirements,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">and/or
                          requirement strength, that apply to the RUE
                          itself from those</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">that
                          apply when a RUE connects to a VRS =
Provider.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Now =
that
                          we have a wg draft to work from, I would like
                          to see people</span><br style=3D"caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">step
                          forward and make proposal(s) for what those
                          differences should be.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">While
                          the prior discussion focused on codecs, please
                          also consider what</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">else
                          might need to differ.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">--------=

                          Forwarded Message --------</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Subject:=

                          [Rum] Codec requirements in =
draft-rosen-rue-01</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Resent-From:
                          <a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a></span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Date:
                          Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:20:51 -0400</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">From:
                          Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt;</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">rum@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">draft-rosen-rue-01
                          changes the video codec requirements. It now
                          simply</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0,
                          0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">references
                          webrtc RFC7742.</span><br style=3D"caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">RFC7742
                          distinguishes three types of endpoints:
                          "WebRTC browser",</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"WebRTC
                          non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoint". AFAIK it assumes</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">that
                          each end is one of these.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Is the
                          expectation here that both the RUE and the
                          provider comply with</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">one of
                          these? In particular, that the provider may
                          simply be a</span><br style=3D"caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">"WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoint? Notably:</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoints" are free to implement any video
                          codecs</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0,
                          0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;they
                          see fit. &nbsp;This follows logically from the
                          definition of "WebRTC-</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;compatible
                          endpoint". &nbsp;It is, of course, advisable =
to
                          implement at</span><br style=3D"caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;least
                          one of the video codecs that is mandated for
                          WebRTC browsers,</span><br style=3D"caret-color:=

                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and
                          implementors are encouraged to do =
so.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Similarly,
                          the audio requirements have been changed to
                          reference webrtc</span><br style=3D"caret-color:=

                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">RFC7874.=

                          That one doesn't have the distinction between
                          "WebRTC browser",</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"WebRTC
                          non-browser", and "WebRTC-compatible
                          endpoint". It applies the</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">same
                          requirements to all. In particular, it
                          requires OPUS support. I</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">don't
                          know why it doesn't make the same endpoint
                          distinctions as for video.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I =
think
                          simply referencing these documents isn't
                          sufficient. Seems like</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">we =
need
                          a more nuanced specification of what is
                          required, though we may</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">still
                          reference these docs with =
qualifications.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paul</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">--</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Rum
                          mailing list</span><br style=3D"caret-color:
                          rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                          font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                          font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                          font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                          font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none; float: none;
                          display: inline !important;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">Rum@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                          Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                          normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                          font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                          text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                          text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                          word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                          0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
                        <a =
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rum/yaYIx3JZ_mSCGWFYp1x0VLQASkg>
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
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The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A 
G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by 
a RUE.

Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including 
OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in 
the answer.

OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in 
the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call 
will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio 
gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But 
does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to 
OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.

So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements for 
the RUE and the VRS Provider.

	Thanks,
	Paul

On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.
> 
>          Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipment
>          Author          : Brian Rosen
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
> 	Pages           : 28
> 	Date            : 2019-11-04
> 
> Abstract:
>     Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by
>     which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing
>     user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected via
>     a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to the
>     hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the
>     videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the
>     interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a
>     "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video
>     service that allows users to connect video devices to their service,
>     and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH users.  It is desirable
>     that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a
>     standard so that any device may be used with any provider and that
>     video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work.  This document
>     describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.
> 
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/
> 
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 


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Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
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The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one would =
transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.
=
https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_12=
45.pdf =
<https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1=
245.pdf>


> On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> =
wrote:
>=20
> The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A =
G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by =
a RUE.
>=20
> Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including =
OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in =
the answer.
>=20
> OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in =
the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call =
will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio =
gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But =
does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to =
OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.
>=20
> So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements =
for the RUE and the VRS Provider.
>=20
> 	Thanks,
> 	Paul
>=20
> On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.
>>         Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User =
Equipment
>>         Author          : Brian Rosen
>> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
>> 	Pages           : 28
>> 	Date            : 2019-11-04
>> Abstract:
>>    Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by
>>    which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing
>>    user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected =
via
>>    a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to =
the
>>    hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the
>>    videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the
>>    interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a
>>    "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video
>>    service that allows users to connect video devices to their =
service,
>>    and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH users.  It is desirable
>>    that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a
>>    standard so that any device may be used with any provider and that
>>    video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work.  This document
>>    describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> --
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">The =
Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one would transcode =
from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.<div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_200=
6/i06_1245.pdf" =
class=3D"">https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_=
2006/i06_1245.pdf</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov =
5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">The =
new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A G.711 =
call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by a =
RUE.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Calls *originated* by a RUE should =
*offer* all MTI codecs including OPUS. If the call terminates in the =
PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in the answer.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that =
originated in the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases =
such a call will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that =
case audio gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes =
sense. But does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, =
transcoding up to OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make =
sense.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">So this is heavily entangled in the =
need for different requirements for the RUE and the VRS Provider.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Thanks,<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Paul<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">A New Internet-Draft is available from the =
on-line Internet-Drafts directories.<br class=3D"">This draft is a work =
item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Title =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipment<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Author =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: Brian Rosen<br =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Filename &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<br class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Pages =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 28<br =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Date =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
2019-11-04<br class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a =
method by<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;which a hearing persons can =
communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") =
connected via<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a videophone to the =
deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to the<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hearing user. &nbsp;The CA interprets using sign =
language on the<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;videophone link and =
voice on the telephone link. &nbsp;Often the<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency =
termed a<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"provider" in this document. =
&nbsp;The provider also provides a video<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;service that allows users to connect video devices to =
their service,<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and subsequently to CAs =
and other dead/HoH users. &nbsp;It is desirable<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user =
conform to a<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;standard so that any =
device may be used with any provider and that<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work. =
&nbsp;This document<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;describes the =
interface between a videophone and a provider.<br class=3D"">The IETF =
datatracker status page for this draft is:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/</a><br =
class=3D"">There are also htmlized versions available at:<br =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br =
class=3D"">A diff from the previous version is available at:<br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br =
class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized version and diff are =
available at tools.ietf.org.<br class=3D"">Internet-Drafts are also =
available by anonymous FTP at:<br =
class=3D"">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">-- <br class=3D"">Rum mailing =
list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org" =
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=20
This is certainly the place to discuss minimum requirements, interoperabili=
ty=C2=A0 and conformance with generally accepted Internet standards (read OPUS)
IMHO your argument is <fill in the blank>=20
=20

=E2=80=94=20

Richard Shockey

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board SIP Forum

www.shockey.us

www.sipforum.org

richard<at>shockey.us

Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter  rshockey101

PSTN +1 703-593-2683

=20

=20

From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Isaac Roach <IRoach@sorenson.=
com>
Date: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 2:22 PM
To: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt

=20

Sorenson has a concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as part of =
the RUM.  We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements that might have bene=
fits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS mandatory specifically at th=
is time in the RUM seems to be beyond what is necessary to implement the FCC=
=E2=80=99s interoperability requirements.  There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establish=
ing a standard interface between devices and providers that requires impleme=
ntation of OPUS.  This would instead appear to create a new minimum standard=
 for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s requirements.  In addition, Sorenson i=
s concerned that mandatory implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it w=
ould require implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems wh=
en it would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls=
. It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out of scope per th=
e RUM charter.

=20

We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these and other long-term goals and =
improvements for VRS, but this is not the right place to create new minimum =
requirements that are not necessary for interoperability.

=20

Thanks,

=20

Isaac

=20

=20

From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Eric Burger <eburger@standard=
strack.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM
To: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt

=20

The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one would transcode f=
rom G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.=20

https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_124=
5.pdf

=20




On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

=20

The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A G.711 c=
all originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by a RUE.

Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including OPUS. I=
f the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in the answer.

OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in the P=
STN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call will be a =
VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio gets relayed to t=
he RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But does audio from inte=
rpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to OPUS and then mixing in=
 the interpreter might make sense.

So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements for the=
 RUE and the VRS Provider.

Thanks,
Paul

On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.
        Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipment
        Author          : Brian Rosen
Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
Pages           : 28
Date            : 2019-11-04
Abstract:
   Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by
   which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing
   user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected via
   a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to the
   hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the
   videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the
   interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a
   "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video
   service that allows users to connect video devices to their service,
   and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH users.  It is desirable
   that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a
   standard so that any device may be used with any provider and that
   video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work.  This document
   describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/
There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


--=20
Rum mailing list
Rum@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum

=20

-- Rum mailing list Rum@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum=20


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art=3D1 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 l=
evel1 lfo1'>This is certainly the place to discuss minimum requirements, int=
eroperability=C2=A0 and conformance with generally accepted Internet standards (=
read OPUS)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;=
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>IMHO your argument is &lt;fill in the blank&gt; <o:=
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pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Richard Shockey<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;m=
argin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Shockey Consulting LLC<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0p=
t;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><=
span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Chairman of the Board SIP Forum<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-=
top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-s=
pace:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>www.shockey.us<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:=
auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>www.sipforum.org<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:=
1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:aut=
o'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>richard&lt;at&gt;shockey.us<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-=
top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-s=
pace:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Skype-Linkedin-Facebook=
 =E2=80=93Twitter &nbsp;rshockey101<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-botto=
m:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;col=
or:black'>PSTN +1 703-593-2683<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div sty=
le=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Rum &lt;rum-bounces@ietf.org&=
gt; on behalf of Isaac Roach &lt;IRoach@sorenson.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tue=
sday, November 5, 2019 at 2:22 PM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;rum@ietf.org&quot; &lt=
;rum@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-ru=
e-01.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sorenson has a concern about making OPUS manda=
tory to implement as part of the RUM.&nbsp; We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to=
 improvements that might have benefits for users in the long-run, but making=
 OPUS mandatory specifically at this time in the RUM seems to be beyond what=
 is necessary to implement the FCC=E2=80=99s interoperability requirements.&nbsp; =
There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establishing a standard interface between devi=
ces and providers that requires implementation of OPUS. &nbsp;This would ins=
tead appear to create a new minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FC=
C=E2=80=99s requirements.&nbsp; In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory =
implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it would require implementation=
 of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems when it would likely not be u=
sed in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls. It would more likely be u=
sed for P2P calls but that is out of scope per the RUM charter.<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>We=E2=80=99re happy t=
o discuss the merits of these and other long-term goals and improvements for=
 VRS, but this is not the right place to create new minimum requirements tha=
t are not necessary for interoperability.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Isaac<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div sty=
le=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Rum &lt;rum-bounces@ietf.org&=
gt; on behalf of Eric Burger &lt;eburger@standardstrack.com&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;rum@ietf.org&q=
uot; &lt;rum@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-iet=
f-rum-rue-01.txt</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o=
:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>The Pulakka paper I referenced for Kei=
th might be why one would transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not=
 mandate it. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"https://www.isc=
a-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1245.pdf">https://w=
ww.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1245.pdf</a><=
o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;=
margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Pau=
l Kyzivat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</=
a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Impleme=
nt is confusing. A G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *=
originated* by a RUE.<br><br>Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all =
MTI codecs including OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won'=
t be selected in the answer.<br><br>OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a cal=
l to a RUE that originated in the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In norm=
al use cases such a call will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* i=
n that case audio gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 ma=
kes sense. But does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transc=
oding up to OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.<br><br=
>So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements for the=
 RUE and the VRS Provider.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Paul<br><br>On 11/4/19 4:20 PM,=
 <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> wrot=
e:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bott=
om:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-l=
ine Internet-Drafts directories.<br>This draft is a work item of the Relay U=
ser Machine WG of the IETF.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;Title &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: Inter=
operability Profile for Relay User Equipment<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Author &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;: Brian Rosen<br>Filename &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: d=
raft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<br>Pages &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 28<br>Date &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 2019-11-04<br>Abstract:<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Video Re=
lay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing<br>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;user using an interpreter (&quot;Communications Assistant&quot;=
) connected via<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and a=
n audio telephone call to the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hearing user. &nbsp;The C=
A interprets using sign language on the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;videophone link=
 and voice on the telephone link. &nbsp;Often the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;inter=
preters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&quot;provider&quot; in this document. &nbsp;The provider also provides a v=
ideo<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;service that allows users to connect video devices=
 to their service,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and subsequently to CAs and other de=
ad/HoH users. &nbsp;It is desirable<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that the videophone=
s used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;standard s=
o that any device may be used with any provider and that<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work. &nbsp;This document<br>&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.<=
br>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br><a href=3D"https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-rum-rue/</a><br>There are also htmlized versions available at:<=
br>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br>https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br>A diff from the previous version =
is available at:<br>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01<=
br>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion<br>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<=
br>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>ftp://ftp.ietf=
.org/internet-drafts/<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>-- <=
br>Rum mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org">Rum@ietf.org</a><br>htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- =
Rum mailing list Rum@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum <o:p=
></o:p></p></div></body></html>

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Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
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=46rom the Charter at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/rum/about/: =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/rum/about/:>

RUM will not assume hearing users are on the PSTN.

and (emphasis added):

Devices used in VRS can be used to place point-to-point calls where both =
communicating parties use sign language. When used for point-to-point =
calling where the participants are not served by the same VRS provider, =
or when one provider provides the originating multimedia transport =
environment, but another provides the interpreter (=E2=80=9Cdial-around =
call=E2=80=9D), the call traverses two providers. Both of these uses =
impose additional requirements on a RUM device and are in scope for this =
work.

Thus Opus is a sensible Mandatory to Implement.

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roach <IRoach@sorenson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Sorenson has a concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as =
part of the RUM.  We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements =
that might have benefits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS =
mandatory specifically at this time in the RUM seems to be beyond what =
is necessary to implement the FCC=E2=80=99s interoperability =
requirements.  There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establishing a =
standard interface between devices and providers that requires =
implementation of OPUS.  This would instead appear to create a new =
minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s =
requirements.  In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory =
implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it would require =
implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems when it =
would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls. =
It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out of scope per =
the RUM charter.
>=20
> We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these and other long-term =
goals and improvements for VRS, but this is not the right place to =
create new minimum requirements that are not necessary for =
interoperability.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Isaac
>=20
>=20
> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Eric Burger =
<eburger@standardstrack.com>
> Date: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM
> To: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
>=20
> The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one would =
transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.
> =
https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_12=
45.pdf =
<https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1=
245.pdf>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>> wrote:
>>=20
>> The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A =
G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by =
a RUE.
>>=20
>> Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including =
OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in =
the answer.
>>=20
>> OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in =
the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call =
will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio =
gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But =
does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to =
OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.
>>=20
>> So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements =
for the RUE and the VRS Provider.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
[snip]


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">=46ro=
m the Charter at <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/rum/about/:" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/rum/about/:</a><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; =
border: none; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(34, 34, 34); color: rgb(34, =
34, 34); font-family: &quot;PT Serif&quot;, Palatino, &quot;Neue =
Swift&quot;, serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, =
255);" class=3D"">RUM will not assume hearing users are on the =
PSTN.</span></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><div>and (<b class=3D"">emphasis</b> =
added):</div></div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(34, 34, =
34); color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: &quot;PT Serif&quot;, =
Palatino, &quot;Neue Swift&quot;, serif; font-size: 15px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D"">Devices used in VRS =
can be used to place point-to-point calls where both communicating =
parties use sign language. When used for point-to-point calling where =
the participants are not served by the same VRS provider, or when one =
provider provides the originating multimedia transport environment, but =
another provides the interpreter (=E2=80=9Cdial-around call=E2=80=9D), =
the call traverses two providers. Both of these uses impose additional =
requirements on a RUM device and <b class=3D"">are in scope for this =
work.</b></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Thus Opus is a sensible Mandatory to =
Implement.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roach =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IRoach@sorenson.com" =
class=3D"">IRoach@sorenson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D"">
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1"><div class=3D"MsoNormal">Sorenson has a =
concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as part of the =
RUM.&nbsp; We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements that =
might have benefits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS mandatory =
specifically at this time in
 the RUM seems to be beyond what is necessary to implement the FCC=E2=80=99=
s interoperability requirements.&nbsp; There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent =
in establishing a standard interface between devices and providers that =
requires implementation of OPUS. &nbsp;This would instead appear
 to create a new minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99=
s requirements.&nbsp; In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory =
implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it would require =
implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems
 when it would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN =
G.711 calls. It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out =
of scope per the RUM charter.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal">We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these =
and other long-term goals and improvements for VRS, but this is not the =
right place to create new minimum requirements that are not necessary =
for interoperability.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Isaac<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><div class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">From: </span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Rum &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Eric Burger &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:eburger@standardstrack.com" =
class=3D"">eburger@standardstrack.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Date: </b>Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM<br =
class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To: </b>"<a href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject: </b>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
</div><div class=3D"MsoNormal">The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith =
might be why one would transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would =
not mandate it.
<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D"MsoNormal"><a =
href=3D"https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_200=
6/i06_1245.pdf" =
class=3D"">https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_=
2006/i06_1245.pdf</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div class=3D""><div class=3D"MsoNormal"><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D"" =
type=3D"cite">
<div class=3D""><div class=3D"MsoNormal">On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, =
Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
</div><div class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><div class=3D"MsoNormal">The new text in section 6 on =
Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A G.711 call originating in the =
PSTN is never going to be *originated* by a RUE.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including =
OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in =
the answer.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in =
the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call =
will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio =
gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing
 G.711 makes sense. But does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? =
If so, transcoding up to OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might =
make sense.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements for =
the RUE and the VRS Provider.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Thanks,<br class=3D"">
=
Paul</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote>[snip]</div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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In this case I think the IETF considers OPUS to be the best practice =
audio codec, its free, small, and efficient.  There is only one Wideband =
codec that is MTI in the WebRTC specs.  I think it would be very hard to =
get this profile through the IETF without it. =20

This effort, while some of the motivation is from the US FCC, is broader =
scope, and thus not limited to FCC interoperability requirements.  One =
of the things that happens when you take work to the IETF consensus =
process is that it=E2=80=99s hard to limit to some external =
organizations requirements. =20

Brian

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roach <IRoach@sorenson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Sorenson has a concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as =
part of the RUM.  We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements =
that might have benefits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS =
mandatory specifically at this time in the RUM seems to be beyond what =
is necessary to implement the FCC=E2=80=99s interoperability =
requirements.  There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establishing a =
standard interface between devices and providers that requires =
implementation of OPUS.  This would instead appear to create a new =
minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s =
requirements.  In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory =
implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it would require =
implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems when it =
would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls. =
It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out of scope per =
the RUM charter.
> =20
> We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these and other long-term =
goals and improvements for VRS, but this is not the right place to =
create new minimum requirements that are not necessary for =
interoperability.
> =20
> Thanks,
> =20
> Isaac
> =20
> =20
> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Eric Burger =
<eburger@standardstrack.com>
> Date: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM
> To: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
> =20
> The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one would =
transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.
> =
https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_12=
45.pdf =
<https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1=
245.pdf>
> =20
>=20
>=20
>> On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>> wrote:
>> =20
>> The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A =
G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by =
a RUE.
>>=20
>> Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including =
OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in =
the answer.
>>=20
>> OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in =
the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call =
will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio =
gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But =
does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to =
OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.
>>=20
>> So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements =
for the RUE and the VRS Provider.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Paul
>>=20
>> On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org =
<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>>=20
>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
>>> This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.
>>>         Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User =
Equipment
>>>         Author          : Brian Rosen
>>> Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
>>> Pages           : 28
>>> Date            : 2019-11-04
>>> Abstract:
>>>    Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by
>>>    which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing
>>>    user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected =
via
>>>    a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to =
the
>>>    hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the
>>>    videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the
>>>    interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a
>>>    "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video
>>>    service that allows users to connect video devices to their =
service,
>>>    and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH users.  It is =
desirable
>>>    that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a
>>>    standard so that any device may be used with any provider and =
that
>>>    video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work.  This document
>>>    describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.
>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/>
>>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01
>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Rum mailing list
>> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum
>=20
> =20
> --=20
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum


--Apple-Mail=_D1A58988-7B0C-4976-BF37-B7CCA5DBC06C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">In =
this case I think the IETF considers OPUS to be the best practice audio =
codec, its free, small, and efficient. &nbsp;There is only one Wideband =
codec that is MTI in the WebRTC specs. &nbsp;I think it would be very =
hard to get this profile through the IETF without it. &nbsp;<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This effort, while some =
of the motivation is from the US FCC, is broader scope, and thus not =
limited to FCC interoperability requirements. &nbsp;One of the things =
that happens when you take work to the IETF consensus process is that =
it=E2=80=99s hard to limit to some external organizations requirements. =
&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Brian<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roach &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:IRoach@sorenson.com" class=3D"">IRoach@sorenson.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Sorenson =
has a concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as part of the =
RUM.&nbsp; We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements that =
might have benefits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS mandatory =
specifically at this time in the RUM seems to be beyond what is =
necessary to implement the FCC=E2=80=99s interoperability =
requirements.&nbsp; There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establishing a =
standard interface between devices and providers that requires =
implementation of OPUS. &nbsp;This would instead appear to create a new =
minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s =
requirements.&nbsp; In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory =
implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it would require =
implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems when it =
would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls. =
It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out of scope per =
the RUM charter.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these and other =
long-term goals and improvements for VRS, but this is not the right =
place to create new minimum requirements that are not necessary for =
interoperability.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Isaac<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Rum &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Eric Burger &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:eburger@standardstrack.com" =
class=3D"">eburger@standardstrack.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Tuesday, November 5, =
2019 at 12:09 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>"<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one =
would transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_200=
6/i06_1245.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_=
2006/i06_1245.pdf</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul =
Kyzivat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The new text in section 6 on Mandatory =
to Implement is confusing. A G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never =
going to be *originated* by a RUE.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Calls =
*originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including OPUS. If =
the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in the =
answer.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying =
a call to a RUE that originated in the PSTN may offer G.711 and not =
OPUS. In normal use cases such a call will be a VRS call with an =
interpreter. I *think* in that case audio gets relayed to the RUE, in =
which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But does audio from interpreter =
also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to OPUS and then mixing in the =
interpreter might make sense.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">So this is =
heavily entangled in the need for different requirements for the RUE and =
the VRS Provider.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br =
class=3D"">Paul<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 11/4/19 4:20 PM,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line =
Internet-Drafts directories.<br class=3D"">This draft is a work item of =
the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Title =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipment<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Author =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: Brian Rosen<br =
class=3D"">Filename &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<br class=3D"">Pages =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 28<br =
class=3D"">Date =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
2019-11-04<br class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Video =
Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;which a hearing persons can communicate =
with deaf/Hard of Hearing<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;user using an =
interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected via<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an =
audio telephone call to the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hearing =
user. &nbsp;The CA interprets using sign language on the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;videophone link and voice on the telephone =
link. &nbsp;Often the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;interpreters may =
be supplied by a company or agency termed a<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"provider" in this document. &nbsp;The =
provider also provides a video<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;service =
that allows users to connect video devices to their service,<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH =
users. &nbsp;It is desirable<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that the =
videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;standard so that any device may be used =
with any provider and that<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;video calls =
direct between deaf/HoH users work. &nbsp;This document<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;describes the interface between a =
videophone and a provider.<br class=3D"">The IETF datatracker status =
page for this draft is:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/</a><br =
class=3D"">There are also htmlized versions available at:<br class=3D""><a=
 href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01</a><br =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br =
class=3D"">A diff from the previous version is available at:<br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br =
class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized version and diff are =
available at tools.ietf.org.<br class=3D"">Internet-Drafts are also =
available by anonymous FTP at:<br =
class=3D"">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">--<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">Rum mailing =
list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Rum@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">--<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Rum mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Rum@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum</a></span></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 17:54:01 -0500
From: Richard Shockey <richard@shockey.us>
To: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <A931BD31-B380-4079-8310-90DF863F5200@shockey.us>
Thread-Topic: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
References: <157290244575.13960.5728950433793071735@ietfa.amsl.com> <57728288-27e6-4598-09a4-3bcc9b0bff04@alum.mit.edu> <A9BF6EBB-317D-4AA0-B205-6455760F9746@standardstrack.com> <49DAABAB-09DC-40CF-81EE-61D08DA3E9CF@sorenson.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rum/JtUNrWrqj0KRn-Ah2yD4TgbT0EU>
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
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=20

+ + 1 and I=E2=80=99d like to add that the requirements here do actually have an =
international scope.  RUM will certainly be looked at closely by other Natio=
nal Regulatory Authorities looking to support the hearing impaired community=
 writ large. =20

=20

To take Brian=E2=80=99s comment further, IMHO it will be impossible to get IESG a=
pproval for any IETF specification that does not include OPUS mandatory to i=
mplement.  I certainly will not support it.=20

=20

=E2=80=94=20

Richard Shockey

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board SIP Forum

www.shockey.us

www.sipforum.org

richard<at>shockey.us

Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter  rshockey101

PSTN +1 703-593-2683

=20

=20

From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.ne=
t>
Date: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 4:51 PM
To: Isaac Roach <IRoach@sorenson.com>
Cc: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt

=20

In this case I think the IETF considers OPUS to be the best practice audio =
codec, its free, small, and efficient.  There is only one Wideband codec tha=
t is MTI in the WebRTC specs.  I think it would be very hard to get this pro=
file through the IETF without it. =20

=20

This effort, while some of the motivation is from the US FCC, is broader sc=
ope, and thus not limited to FCC interoperability requirements.  One of the =
things that happens when you take work to the IETF consensus process is that=
 it=E2=80=99s hard to limit to some external organizations requirements. =20

=20

Brian

=20

On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roach <IRoach@sorenson.com> wrote:

=20

Sorenson has a concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as part of =
the RUM.  We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements that might have bene=
fits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS mandatory specifically at th=
is time in the RUM seems to be beyond what is necessary to implement the FCC=
=E2=80=99s interoperability requirements.  There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establish=
ing a standard interface between devices and providers that requires impleme=
ntation of OPUS.  This would instead appear to create a new minimum standard=
 for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s requirements.  In addition, Sorenson i=
s concerned that mandatory implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it w=
ould require implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems wh=
en it would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls=
. It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out of scope per th=
e RUM charter.

=20

We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these and other long-term goals and =
improvements for VRS, but this is not the right place to create new minimum =
requirements that are not necessary for interoperability.

=20

Thanks,

=20

Isaac

=20

=20

From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Eric Burger <eburger@standard=
strack.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM
To: "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt

=20

The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one would transcode f=
rom G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.

https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_124=
5.pdf

=20



On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

=20

The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A G.711 c=
all originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by a RUE.

Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including OPUS. I=
f the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in the answer.

OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in the P=
STN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call will be a =
VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio gets relayed to t=
he RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But does audio from inte=
rpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to OPUS and then mixing in=
 the interpreter might make sense.

So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements for the=
 RUE and the VRS Provider.

Thanks,
Paul

On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.
        Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipment
        Author          : Brian Rosen
Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
Pages           : 28
Date            : 2019-11-04
Abstract:
   Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by
   which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing
   user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected via
   a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to the
   hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the
   videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the
   interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a
   "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video
   service that allows users to connect video devices to their service,
   and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH users.  It is desirable
   that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a
   standard so that any device may be used with any provider and that
   video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work.  This document
   describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/
There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01
A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


--=20
Rum mailing list
Rum@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum

=20

--=20
Rum mailing list
Rum@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum

=20

-- Rum mailing list Rum@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum=20


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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSe=
ction1><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>+ + 1 and =
I=E2=80=99d like to add that the requirements here do actually have an internation=
al scope. &nbsp;RUM will certainly be looked at closely by other National Re=
gulatory Authorities looking to support the hearing impaired community writ =
large.&nbsp; </p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
To take Brian=E2=80=99s comment further, IMHO it will be impossible to get IESG ap=
proval for any IETF specification that does not include OPUS mandatory to im=
plement. &nbsp;I certainly will not support it. </p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;marg=
in-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0=
pt;color:black'>=E2=80=94&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMi=
ddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>=
Richard Shockey<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle=
 style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin=
-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Shoc=
key Consulting LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMid=
dle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;mar=
gin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>C=
hairman of the Board SIP Forum<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormalCxSpMiddle style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:1.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bott=
om:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;co=
lor:black'>www.shockey.us<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
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0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:b=
lack'>www.sipforum.org<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormalCxS=
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om:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;co=
lor:black'>Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter &nbsp;rshockey101<o:p></o:p></=
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.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.0pt;margin-left:0in;mso-add-space:auto=
'><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>PSTN +1 703-593-2683<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1=
.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:bl=
ack'>Rum &lt;rum-bounces@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Brian Rosen &lt;br@brianr=
osen.net&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 4:51 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>Isaac Roach &lt;IRoach@sorenson.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;rum@ietf.org=
&quot; &lt;rum@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-i=
etf-rum-rue-01.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>In this case I think the IETF consid=
ers OPUS to be the best practice audio codec, its free, small, and efficient=
. &nbsp;There is only one Wideband codec that is MTI in the WebRTC specs. &n=
bsp;I think it would be very hard to get this profile through the IETF witho=
ut it. &nbsp;</p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>This effort, while some of the motivation is from the US FCC=
, is broader scope, and thus not limited to FCC interoperability requirement=
s. &nbsp;One of the things that happens when you take work to the IETF conse=
nsus process is that it=E2=80=99s hard to limit to some external organizations req=
uirements. &nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Brian</p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bot=
tom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roac=
h &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IRoach@sorenson.com">IRoach@sorenson.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:</p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal>Sorenson has a concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as part =
of the RUM.&nbsp; We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements that might h=
ave benefits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS mandatory specifical=
ly at this time in the RUM seems to be beyond what is necessary to implement=
 the FCC=E2=80=99s interoperability requirements.&nbsp; There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent=
 in establishing a standard interface between devices and providers that req=
uires implementation of OPUS. &nbsp;This would instead appear to create a ne=
w minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s requirements.&nbsp; =
In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory implementation of OPUS wou=
ld be expensive as it would require implementation of the CODEC on endpoints=
 and backend systems when it would likely not be used in the near future for=
 Relay PSTN G.711 calls. It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that=
 is out of scope per the RUM charter.</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp=
;</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of th=
ese and other long-term goals and improvements for VRS, but this is not the =
right place to create new minimum requirements that are not necessary for in=
teroperability.</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal>Isaac</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p></div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:soli=
d #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>From:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span=
></span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Rum &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rum-bounc=
es@ietf.org">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Eric Burger &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:eburger@standardstrack.com">eburger@standardstrack.com</a>&gt;<br=
><b>Date:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>Tuesday, Novembe=
r 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM<br><b>To:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</spa=
n></b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org">rum@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org">rum@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:<span class=3Dapple-=
converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01=
.txt</span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p></div></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be =
why one would transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.=
</p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"https://www.isca-speech.org/=
archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1245.pdf"><span style=3D'color:pur=
ple'>https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06=
_1245.pdf</span></a></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p><=
/div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br></p><=
/div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal>On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu"><span style=3D'color:purple'>pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</spa=
n></a>&gt; wrote:</p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p></div><di=
v><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The new text in =
section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A G.711 call originating i=
n the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by a RUE.<br><br>Calls *origina=
ted* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including OPUS. If the call term=
inates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in the answer.<br><br>OTOH, a=
 VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in the PSTN may =
offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call will be a VRS call=
 with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio gets relayed to the RUE, =
in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But does audio from interpreter =
also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to OPUS and then mixing in the int=
erpreter might make sense.<br><br>So this is heavily entangled in the need f=
or different requirements for the RUE and the VRS Provider.<br><br>Thanks,<b=
r>Paul<br><br>On 11/4/19 4:20 PM,<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span style=3D'color:purple'>int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</sp=
an>wrote:<br><br></p></div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom=
:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>A New Internet-Draft is available from the o=
n-line Internet-Drafts directories.<br>This draft is a work item of the Rela=
y User Machine WG of the IETF.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;Title &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: In=
teroperability Profile for Relay User Equipment<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Author &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;: Brian Rosen<br>Filename &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<br>Pages &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 28<br>Date &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 2019-11-04<br>Abstract:<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Video=
 Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing<br>&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;user using an interpreter (&quot;Communications Assistant&qu=
ot;) connected via<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a videophone to the deaf/HoH user an=
d an audio telephone call to the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hearing user. &nbsp;Th=
e CA interprets using sign language on the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;videophone l=
ink and voice on the telephone link. &nbsp;Often the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;in=
terpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&quot;provider&quot; in this document. &nbsp;The provider also provides =
a video<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;service that allows users to connect video devi=
ces to their service,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and subsequently to CAs and other=
 dead/HoH users. &nbsp;It is desirable<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that the videoph=
ones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;standar=
d so that any device may be used with any provider and that<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work. &nbsp;This document<br>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;describes the interface between a videophone and a provide=
r.<br>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br><a href=3D"https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/"><span style=3D'color:purple'>h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/</span></a><br>There are =
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/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01</a=
><br>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br>A diff f=
rom the previous version is available at:<br>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?ur=
l2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01<br>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes=
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rum/iaVV0JQ6WkN9CGFgGdQiIvwticI>
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
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I don=E2=80=99t think we are required to be backwards compatible with =
everything. No one expects this to work with RUM:


Image CC 2.0 Methodshop.com <http://methodshop.com/> =
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/methodshop/21638277765/in/photostream/ =
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/methodshop/21638277765/in/photostream/>)

> On Nov 5, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Richard Shields <richard@sorenson.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> OPUS looks like an interesting audio codec. Considering that we =
support older devices, where video is already pushing the limits of CPU =
and memory usage, making OPUS MTI raises concerns about how well it =
would perform on older hardware.
>=20
> Richard
>=20
> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> On =
Behalf Of Brian Rosen
> Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 2:51 PM
> To: Isaac Roach <IRoach@sorenson.com <mailto:IRoach@sorenson.com>>
> Cc: rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
>=20
> [EXTERNAL] In this case I think the IETF considers OPUS to be the best =
practice audio codec, its free, small, and efficient.  There is only one =
Wideband codec that is MTI in the WebRTC specs.  I think it would be =
very hard to get this profile through the IETF without it.
>=20
> This effort, while some of the motivation is from the US FCC, is =
broader scope, and thus not limited to FCC interoperability =
requirements.  One of the things that happens when you take work to the =
IETF consensus process is that it=E2=80=99s hard to limit to some =
external organizations requirements.
>=20
> Brian
>=20
>=20
> On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roach <IRoach@sorenson.com =
<mailto:IRoach@sorenson.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Sorenson has a concern about making OPUS mandatory to implement as =
part of the RUM.  We don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements =
that might have benefits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS =
mandatory specifically at this time in the RUM seems to be beyond what =
is necessary to implement the FCC=E2=80=99s interoperability =
requirements.  There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establishing a =
standard interface between devices and providers that requires =
implementation of OPUS.  This would instead appear to create a new =
minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s =
requirements.  In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory =
implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it would require =
implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems when it =
would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls. =
It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out of scope per =
the RUM charter.
>=20
> We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these and other long-term =
goals and improvements for VRS, but this is not the right place to =
create new minimum requirements that are not necessary for =
interoperability.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Isaac
>=20
>=20
> From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org>> on =
behalf of Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com =
<mailto:eburger@standardstrack.com>>
> Date: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:09 PM
> To: "rum@ietf.org <mailto:rum@ietf.org>" <rum@ietf.org =
<mailto:rum@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
>=20
> The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one would =
transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.
> =
https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_12=
45.pdf =
<https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_2006/i06_1=
245.pdf>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Nov 5, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu =
<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>> wrote:
>=20
> The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A =
G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by =
a RUE.
>=20
> Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including =
OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in =
the answer.
>=20
> OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in =
the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call =
will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio =
gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But =
does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to =
OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.
>=20
> So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements =
for the RUE and the VRS Provider.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Paul
>=20
> On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org =
<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.
>         Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User =
Equipment
>         Author          : Brian Rosen
> Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
> Pages           : 28
> Date            : 2019-11-04
> Abstract:
>    Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by
>    which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing
>    user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected =
via
>    a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to =
the
>    hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the
>    videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the
>    interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a
>    "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video
>    service that allows users to connect video devices to their =
service,
>    and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH users.  It is desirable
>    that the videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a
>    standard so that any device may be used with any provider and that
>    video calls direct between deaf/HoH users work.  This document
>    describes the interface between a videophone and a provider.
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01 =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
<http://tools.ietf.org/>.
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ =
<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/>
>=20
> --
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum>
>=20
> --
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum>
>=20
> --
> Rum mailing list
> Rum@ietf.org <mailto:Rum@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I =
don=E2=80=99t think we are required to be backwards compatible with <i =
class=3D"">everything</i><span style=3D"font-style: normal;" class=3D"">. =
No one expects this to work with RUM:</span><div class=3D""><img =
apple-inline=3D"yes" id=3D"B55A4BA5-107A-4943-AB45-64E1EF0E188D" =
src=3D"cid:25735950-E085-42EA-9098-0463C418E988" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Image CC 2.0&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://Methodshop.com" class=3D"">Methodshop.com</a>&nbsp;(<a =
href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/methodshop/21638277765/in/photostrea=
m/" =
class=3D"">https://www.flickr.com/photos/methodshop/21638277765/in/photost=
ream/</a>)&nbsp;<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 5, 2019, at 5:54 PM, =
Richard Shields &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:richard@sorenson.com" =
class=3D"">richard@sorenson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">OPUS =
looks like an interesting audio codec. Considering that we support older =
devices, where video is already pushing the limits of CPU and memory =
usage, making OPUS MTI raises concerns about how well it would perform =
on older hardware.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Richard<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From:</b><span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Rum &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Brian Rosen<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, November 5, 2019 =
2:51 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Isaac Roach &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:IRoach@sorenson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">IRoach@sorenson.com</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: red;" =
class=3D"">[EXTERNAL]</span>&nbsp;In this case I think the IETF =
considers OPUS to be the best practice audio codec, its free, small, and =
efficient. &nbsp;There is only one Wideband codec that is MTI in the =
WebRTC specs. &nbsp;I think it would be very hard to get this profile =
through the IETF without it. &nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">This effort, while some of the motivation is from the US FCC, =
is broader scope, and thus not limited to FCC interoperability =
requirements. &nbsp;One of the things that happens when you take work to =
the IETF consensus process is that it=E2=80=99s hard to limit to some =
external organizations requirements. &nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Brian<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Isaac Roach &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:IRoach@sorenson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">IRoach@sorenson.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Sorenson has a concern =
about making OPUS mandatory to implement as part of the RUM.&nbsp; We =
don=E2=80=99t necessarily object to improvements that might have =
benefits for users in the long-run, but making OPUS mandatory =
specifically at this time in the RUM seems to be beyond what is =
necessary to implement the FCC=E2=80=99s interoperability =
requirements.&nbsp; There=E2=80=99s nothing inherent in establishing a =
standard interface between devices and providers that requires =
implementation of OPUS. &nbsp;This would instead appear to create a new =
minimum standard for VRS that goes beyond the FCC=E2=80=99s =
requirements.&nbsp; In addition, Sorenson is concerned that mandatory =
implementation of OPUS would be expensive as it would require =
implementation of the CODEC on endpoints and backend systems when it =
would likely not be used in the near future for Relay PSTN G.711 calls. =
It would more likely be used for P2P calls but that is out of scope per =
the RUM charter.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">We=E2=80=99re happy to discuss the merits of these and other =
long-term goals and improvements for VRS, but this is not the right =
place to create new minimum requirements that are not necessary for =
interoperability.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Isaac<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Rum &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">rum-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Eric Burger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eburger@standardstrack.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">eburger@standardstrack.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Tuesday, November 5, =
2019 at 12:09 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>"<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rum@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">rum@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Re: [Rum] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">The Pulakka paper I referenced for Keith might be why one =
would transcode from G.711 to Opus. However, I would not mandate it.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_200=
6/i06_1245.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/archive_papers/interspeech_=
2006/i06_1245.pdf</span></a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">On Nov 5, =
2019, at 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The new =
text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A G.711 call =
originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by a RUE.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all =
MTI codecs including OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS =
won't be selected in the answer.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">OTOH, a =
VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in the PSTN =
may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call will be a =
VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio gets relayed =
to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But does audio =
from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to OPUS and =
then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">So this is heavily entangled in the need for different =
requirements for the RUE and the VRS Provider.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D"">Paul<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On =
11/4/19 4:20 PM,<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">A New Internet-Draft is =
available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.<br class=3D"">This=
 draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Title =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipment<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Author =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: Brian Rosen<br =
class=3D"">Filename &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt<br class=3D"">Pages =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 28<br =
class=3D"">Date =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
2019-11-04<br class=3D"">Abstract:<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Video =
Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;which a hearing persons can communicate =
with deaf/Hard of Hearing<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;user using an =
interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected via<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an =
audio telephone call to the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hearing =
user. &nbsp;The CA interprets using sign language on the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;videophone link and voice on the telephone =
link. &nbsp;Often the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;interpreters may =
be supplied by a company or agency termed a<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"provider" in this document. &nbsp;The =
provider also provides a video<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;service =
that allows users to connect video devices to their service,<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and subsequently to CAs and other dead/HoH =
users. &nbsp;It is desirable<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that the =
videophones used by the deaf/HoH/H-I user conform to a<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;standard so that any device may be used =
with any provider and that<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;video calls =
direct between deaf/HoH users work. &nbsp;This document<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;describes the interface between a =
videophone and a provider.<br class=3D"">The IETF datatracker status =
page for this draft is:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rum-rue/</span></a>=
<br class=3D"">There are also htmlized versions available at:<br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01</a><br =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rum-rue-01</a>=
<br class=3D"">A diff from the previous version is available at:<br =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rum-rue-01</a><b=
r class=3D"">Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the =
time of submission<br class=3D"">until the htmlized version and diff are =
available at<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br class=3D"">Internet-Drafts =
are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">--<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">Rum mailing =
list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">Rum@ietf.org</span></a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">--<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">Rum mailing =
list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
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class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum</a></span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">--<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
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display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Rum mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Rum@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Rum@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rum</a></div></blockquote=
></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Thread-Topic: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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Subject: Re: [Rum] Distinguishing RUE and Provider requirements
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--_000_7b27793f9554f42a725f194b2f6e5a84omnitorse_--


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From: James Hamlin <james.hamlin@purple.us>
To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, "rum@ietf.org" <rum@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
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Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt
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Paul=0A=
=0A=
We've discussed rtcweb-overview provides for a "WebRTC-compatible Endpoint"=
; the intent is to support legacy systems such as the PSTN and older VRS en=
dpoints.=0A=
=0A=
This text would clarify things:-=0A=
=0A=
At the start of section 6:-=0A=
=0A=
On the Relay Service Provider side of the RUM interface, there are connecti=
ons to the PSTN and legacy endpoints which cannot be upgraded soon. The Rel=
ay Service Provider is regarded here as a WebRTC-compatible Endpoint as des=
cribed in draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview. Relay Service Providers therefore do =
not have to offer, or be willing to accept all the WEBRTC codecs but will a=
lways have at least one codec in common with any RUE that is compliant with=
 this profile.=0A=
=0A=
In section 6.3 Video:-=0A=
=0A=
The RUE and Relay Service Provider MUST conform to [RFC7742] with the excep=
tion that, since backwards compatibility is desirable and older devices do =
not support VP8, that only H.264, as specified in [RFC7742] is Mandatory to=
 Implement by Relay Service Providers.=0A=
=0A=
In section 6.4.  Audio:-=0A=
=0A=
The RUE and Relay Service Provider MUST conform to [RFC7874] with the excep=
tion that, since backwards compatibility is desirable and older devices onl=
y G.711 is mandatory to implement by Relay Service Provider.=0A=
=0A=
Best regards=0A=
=0A=
James=0A=
=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: Rum <rum-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.m=
it.edu>=0A=
Sent: 05 November 2019 18:44=0A=
To: rum@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: Re: [Rum] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt=0A=
=0A=
The new text in section 6 on Mandatory to Implement is confusing. A=0A=
G.711 call originating in the PSTN is never going to be *originated* by=0A=
a RUE.=0A=
=0A=
Calls *originated* by a RUE should *offer* all MTI codecs including=0A=
OPUS. If the call terminates in the PSTN then OPUS won't be selected in=0A=
the answer.=0A=
=0A=
OTOH, a VRS provider when relaying a call to a RUE that originated in=0A=
the PSTN may offer G.711 and not OPUS. In normal use cases such a call=0A=
will be a VRS call with an interpreter. I *think* in that case audio=0A=
gets relayed to the RUE, in which case continuing G.711 makes sense. But=0A=
does audio from interpreter also go to the RUE? If so, transcoding up to=0A=
OPUS and then mixing in the interpreter might make sense.=0A=
=0A=
So this is heavily entangled in the need for different requirements for=0A=
the RUE and the VRS Provider.=0A=
=0A=
        Thanks,=0A=
        Paul=0A=
=0A=
On 11/4/19 4:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:=0A=
>=0A=
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.=0A=
> This draft is a work item of the Relay User Machine WG of the IETF.=0A=
>=0A=
>          Title           : Interoperability Profile for Relay User Equipm=
ent=0A=
>          Author          : Brian Rosen=0A=
>       Filename        : draft-ietf-rum-rue-01.txt=0A=
>       Pages           : 28=0A=
>       Date            : 2019-11-04=0A=
>=0A=
> Abstract:=0A=
>     Video Relay Service (VRS) is a term used to describe a method by=0A=
>     which a hearing persons can communicate with deaf/Hard of Hearing=0A=
>     user using an interpreter ("Communications Assistant") connected via=
=0A=
>     a videophone to the deaf/HoH user and an audio telephone call to the=
=0A=
>     hearing user.  The CA interprets using sign language on the=0A=
>     videophone link and voice on the telephone link.  Often the=0A=
>     interpreters may be supplied by a company or agency termed a=0A=
>     "provider" in this document.  The provider also provides a video=0A=
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=0A=
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We=E2=80=99re meeting tomorrow morning at 10 AM (9 pm US Eastern) in =
VIP-A

For remote participation we recommend the Meetecho video system: =
http://www.meetecho.com/ietf106/rum/
There is also an audio-only feed: =
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And a jabber (XMPP) chat room: xmpp:rum@jabber.ietf.org?join

You can find the slides to be presented at: =
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Thread-Topic: Real-time text in multi-party calls - draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt
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Subject: [Rum] Real-time text in multi-party calls - draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt
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--_000_33bc192ace4cdec76e4013c208a12a3aomnitorse_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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The need for multi-party support for real-time text was mentioned in the RU=
M session yesterday.

A new draft for that will be briefly presented in the AVTCORE session on Fr=
iday Nov. 22. The AVTCORE session is at 12:20-13:50 and the RTT multi-party=
 slot is scheduled for 13:20 - 13:35.  Singapore time.

The draft is early, so let us make it useful for RUM.

For more facts and links, see below.

Regards

Gunnar Hellstrom

-------- Vidarebefordrat meddelande --------

=C4mne:   Fwd: I-D Action: draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt







Hi mmusic and avtcore,

I have replaced an old expired draft about real-time text multi-party handl=
ing. It touches both transport and negotiation topics, so I am sending this=
 to both mmusic and avtcore, but I hope we can keep the discussion in mmusi=
c. So, please respond with your comments to mmusic.

Right now, the draft is a discussion paper. I intend to convert it to a tru=
e BCP format after some discussions on the preferences I have proposed.

Regards

Gunnar Hellstr=F6m


-------- Vidarebefordrat meddelande --------
=C4mne:   I-D Action: draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt
Datum:  Thu, 31 Oct 2019 16:33:35 -0700
Fr=E5n:   internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Svar till:      internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Till:   i-d-announce@ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.


Title : Real-time text media handling in multi-party conferences
Author : Gunnar Hellstrom
Filename : draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt
Pages : 36
Date : 2019-10-31

Abstract:
This memo specifies methods for Real-Time Text (RTT) media handling
in multi-party calls. The main solution is to carry Real-Time text
by the RTP protocol in a time-sampled mode according to RFC 4103.
The main solution for centralized multi-party handling of real-time
text is achieved through a media control unit coordinating multiple
RTP text streams into one RTP session.

Identification for the streams are provided through the RTCP
messages. This mechanism enables the receiving application to
present the received real-time text medium in different ways
according to user preferences. Some presentation related features
are also described explaining suitable variations of transmission and
presentation of text.

Call control features are described for the SIP environment. A
number of alternative methods for providing the multi-party
negotiation, transmission and presentation are discussed and a
recommendation for the main one is provided. Two alternative methods
using a single RTP stream and source identification inline in the
text stream are also described, one of them being provided as a lower
functionality fallback method for endpoints with no multi-party
awareness for RTT.

Brief information is also provided for multi-party RTT in the WebRTC
environment.

EDITOR NOTE: A number of alternatives are specified for discussion.
A decision is needed which alternatives are preferred and then how
the preferred alternatives shall be emphasized.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rt=
t-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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<p>The need for multi-party support for real-time text was mentioned in the=
 RUM session yesterday.
<br>
</p>
<p>A new draft for that will be briefly presented in the AVTCORE session on=
 Friday Nov. 22. The AVTCORE session is at 12:20-13:50 and the RTT multi-pa=
rty slot is scheduled for 13:20 - 13:35.&nbsp; Singapore time.
<br>
</p>
<p>The draft is early, so let us make it useful for RUM.</p>
<p>For more facts and links, see below.<br>
</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Gunnar Hellstrom</p>
<p>-------- Vidarebefordrat meddelande --------</p>
<div class=3D"moz-forward-container">
<table class=3D"moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0=
" border=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT">=C4mne: </th>
<td>Fwd: I-D Action: draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT"><br>
</th>
<td><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT"><br>
</th>
<td><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT"><br>
</th>
<td><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p>Hi mmusic and avtcore,</p>
<p>I have replaced an old expired draft about real-time text multi-party ha=
ndling. It touches both transport and negotiation topics, so I am sending t=
his to both mmusic and avtcore, but I hope we can keep the discussion in mm=
usic. So, please respond with your
 comments to mmusic. <br>
</p>
<p>Right now, the draft is a discussion paper. I intend to convert it to a =
true BCP format after some discussions on the preferences I have proposed.<=
/p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Gunnar Hellstr=F6m<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"moz-forward-container"><br>
<br>
-------- Vidarebefordrat meddelande --------
<table class=3D"moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0=
" border=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT">=C4mne: </th>
<td>I-D Action: draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT">Datum: </th>
<td>Thu, 31 Oct 2019 16:33:35 -0700</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT">Fr=E5n: </th>
<td><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ie=
tf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT">Svar till: </th>
<td><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ie=
tf.org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign=3D"BASELINE" nowrap=3D"nowrap" align=3D"RIGHT">Till: </th>
<td><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.=
org" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
<br>
<br>
Title : Real-time text media handling in multi-party conferences<br>
Author : Gunnar Hellstrom<br>
Filename : draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00.txt<br>
Pages : 36<br>
Date : 2019-10-31<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
This memo specifies methods for Real-Time Text (RTT) media handling<br>
in multi-party calls. The main solution is to carry Real-Time text<br>
by the RTP protocol in a time-sampled mode according to RFC 4103.<br>
The main solution for centralized multi-party handling of real-time<br>
text is achieved through a media control unit coordinating multiple<br>
RTP text streams into one RTP session.<br>
<br>
Identification for the streams are provided through the RTCP<br>
messages. This mechanism enables the receiving application to<br>
present the received real-time text medium in different ways<br>
according to user preferences. Some presentation related features<br>
are also described explaining suitable variations of transmission and<br>
presentation of text.<br>
<br>
Call control features are described for the SIP environment. A<br>
number of alternative methods for providing the multi-party<br>
negotiation, transmission and presentation are discussed and a<br>
recommendation for the main one is provided. Two alternative methods<br>
using a single RTP stream and source identification inline in the<br>
text stream are also described, one of them being provided as a lower<br>
functionality fallback method for endpoints with no multi-party<br>
awareness for RTT.<br>
<br>
Brief information is also provided for multi-party RTT in the WebRTC<br>
environment.<br>
<br>
EDITOR NOTE: A number of alternatives are specified for discussion.<br>
A decision is needed which alternatives are preferred and then how<br>
the preferred alternatives shall be emphasized.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt/" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00</a><br>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/html/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt-00" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-hellstrom-mmusic-multi-party-rtt=
-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-draf=
ts/" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
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or <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shad=
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