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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 - ready for IESG submission? 
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Hi,



The use cases I-D draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 completed WGLC with no comme=
nts. Does everybody agree that it is ready to be forwarded to the IESG for =
consideration as Informational RFC? If there are any last minutes comments =
or concerns please speak now, otherwise I will forward the document to the =
IESG in the next few days.



Thanks and Regards,



Dan



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<pre>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>The use cases I-D draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 completed WGLC with no =
comments. Does everybody agree that it is ready to be forwarded to the IESG=
 for consideration as Informational RFC? If there are any last minutes comm=
ents or concerns please speak now, otherwise I will forward the document to=
 the IESG in the next few days. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks and Regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Dan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
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From nobody Mon Jun  2 05:52:37 2014
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From: "Waltermire, David A." <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 - ready for IESG submission?
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Subject: Re: [sacm] draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 - ready for IESG submission?
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In my opinion, as the document editor, this draft is ready for IESG and IET=
F review.

Dave
________________________________
From: sacm <sacm-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <droma=
sca@avaya.com>
Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 5:49:26 AM
To: sacm@ietf.org
Subject: [sacm] draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 - ready for IESG submission?


Hi,



The use cases I-D draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 completed WGLC with no comme=
nts. Does everybody agree that it is ready to be forwarded to the IESG for =
consideration as Informational RFC? If there are any last minutes comments =
or concerns please speak now, otherwise I will forward the document to the =
IESG in the next few days.



Thanks and Regards,



Dan



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<font style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;; color:#1F497D">In my opinion, as the document editor, this dr=
aft is ready for IESG and IETF review.<br>
<br>
Dave</font>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> sacm &lt;sacm-bounces=
@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;dromasca@avaya.com&gt;<=
br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 2, 2014 5:49:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> sacm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sacm] draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 - ready for IESG submis=
sion?</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<pre>Hi,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>The use cases I-D draft-ietf-sacm-use-cases-07 completed WGLC with no =
comments. Does everybody agree that it is ready to be forwarded to the IESG=
 for consideration as Informational RFC? If there are any last minutes comm=
ents or concerns please speak now, otherwise I will forward the document to=
 the IESG in the next few days. </pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Thanks and Regards,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Dan</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
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From nobody Tue Jun  3 09:36:13 2014
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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 12:36:05 -0400
From: Gunnar Engelbach <Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com>
Organization: ThreatGuard, Inc.
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Subject: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection
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Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won't be bounced by the 
list server...


1) Separation between collection request and collection action
   That is, the request for a data item must include enough information 
to properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be a 
command to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a command.

   The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the potential 
attack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the 
request for collection from the collection method thereby allowing more 
flexibility in how collection is implemented.


2) Chaining of collected values
   The value from a collected item should be able to be used as part of 
the collection of another item.  This must be able to be expressed as 
part of the collection request so that these references can be resolved 
at the point of collection without having to interact with the requester.

   For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the 
location of an installed software package so that the proper file 
version can be collected.



Thoughts?



--gun


From nobody Wed Jun  4 03:59:51 2014
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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: second call: NomCom 2014-2015 Call for Volunteers
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Subject: [sacm] FW: second call: NomCom 2014-2015 Call for Volunteers
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Please consider volunteering for this activity which is of high importance =
for the IETF.=20

Thanks and Regards,

Dan


> -----Original Message-----
> From: WGChairs [mailto:wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Richardson
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 10:18 PM
> To: ietf@ietf.org; WG Chairs
> Subject: second call: NomCom 2014-2015 Call for Volunteers
>=20
>=20
> The IETF nominating committee (nomcom) process for 2014-15 has begun.
> The IETF nomcom appoints folks to fill the open slots on the IAOC, the IA=
B,
> and the IESG (including IETF Chair).
>=20
> This is the second call for volunteers. (and you may have seen it more th=
an
> once)
>=20
> If your name is on the below, then you have volunteered and are qualified=
.
> If you have heard from me, but are not on the list, then there is some
> problem, and you should have gotten a query from me to determine your
> eligibility.
> If you have volunteered and not heard from him, then please resend; it go=
t
> lost.
>=20
> Ten voting members for the nomcom are selected in a verifiably random way
> from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have
> of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF populat=
ion.
>=20
> Let's break the 200 volunteer mark again this year!
> We are at 54 volunteers so far.
>=20
> The details of the operation of the nomcom can be found in RFC 3777, and
> BCP10/RFC3797 details the selection algorithm.
>=20
> Volunteers must have attended 3 of the past 5 IETF meetings.  As specifie=
d in
> RFC 3777, that means three out of the five past meetings up to the time t=
his
> email announcement goes out to start the solicitation of volunteers.
> The five meetings out of which you must have attended *three*
> are IETF 85(Atlanta),      \
>          86(Orlando),       \
>          87(Berlin),         *** ANY THREE!
>          88(Vancouver),     /
>          89(London)        /
>=20
> If you qualify, please volunteer.   However, much as we want this, before
> you
> decide to volunteer, please be sure you are willing to forgo appointment =
to
> any of the positions for which this nomcom is responsible.
>=20
> The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2015 IETF
> meeting, and thus the positions for which this nomcom is responsible, are
>=20
> IAOC:
> To be confirmed
>=20
> IAB:
> Joel Halpern
> Russ Housley
> Eliot Lear
> Xing Li
> Andrew Sullivan
> Dave Thaler
>=20
> IESG:
> Pete Resnick (Applications)
> Ted Lemon (Internet)
> Joel Jaeggli (Operations and Management) Richard Barnes (RAI) Adrian
> Farrel* (Routing) Stephen Farrell (Security) Spencer Dawkins (Transport) =
Jari
> Arkko (Gen)
>=20
> (names with * have publically indicated they will not serve another term)
>=20
> The primary activity for this nomcom will begin in July 2014 and should b=
e
> completed in January 2015.   The nomcom will have regularly scheduled
> conference calls to ensure progress. (We might dogfood WebRTC) There will
> be activities to collect requirements from the community, review candidat=
e
> questionnaires, review feedback from community members about
> candidates, and talk to candidates.
>=20
> Thus, being a nomcom member does require some time commitment; but it
> is also a very rewarding experience.
>=20
> It is very important that you be able to attend IETF91 to conduct intervi=
ews.
> Being at IETF90 is useful for training.  Being at IETF92 is not essential=
.
>=20
> Please volunteer by sending me an email before 11:59 pm EDT (UTC -4 hours=
)
> June 22, 2013, as follows:
>=20
> To: nomcom-chair-2014@ietf.org
> Subject: Nomcom 2014-15 Volunteer
>=20
> Please include the following information in the email body:
>=20
> Your Full Name: __________--
> Current Primary Affiliation:
>     // Typically what goes in the Company field
>     // in the IETF Registration Form
> Emails: _______________
> [<All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF meetings>]
> <Preferred email address first>
> Telephone: _______________________
>     // For confirmation if selected
>=20
> You should expect an email response from me within 3 business days statin=
g
> whether or not you are qualified.  If you don't receive this response, pl=
ease
> re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to the subject line.
>=20
> If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider t=
hat
> nomcom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership of th=
e
> IETF.  Questions by email or voice are welcome.
> Volunteering for the nomcom is a great way to contribute to the IETF!
>=20
> You can find a detailed timeline on the nomcom web site at:
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2014/
>=20
> I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as details=
 of the
> randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection process, within th=
e
> next couple weeks.
>=20
> Thank you!
> Michael Richardson
> mcr+nomcom@sandelman.ca
> nomcom-chair-2014@ietf.org
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  qualified volunteers so far, in alphabetical order by fi=
rst name ANM
> Zaheduzzaman Sarker Adam Montville Bill VerSteeg Carl Williams Carlos
> Martinez Charles Eckel DHRUV DHODY Dacheng Zhang Dapeng Liu Donald
> Eastlake Eric VYNCKE Fernando Gont Fred Baker Gonzalo Salgueiro Hongyu Li
> Hosnieh Rafiee Hugo Salgado John E Drake John Levine John Scudder Linda
> Dunbar Lingli Deng Louis (Lou) Berger Luca Martini Lucy Yong Mach Chen
> Mark Townsley Matt Lepinski Mehmet Ersue Melinda Shore Min Ye Ning
> Zong Ole Troan Pascal Thubert Paul Hoffman Peter Yee Ralph Droms Ron
> Bonica Ross Callon Ross Finlayson Sam K. Aldrin Sanjay Mishra Sheng JIANG
> Shucheng Liu Stephan Friedl Stephan Wenger Stephen Kent Suhas
> Nandakumar Tim Wicinski Tissa Senevirathne Toerless Eckert Wassim Haddad
> Xiaohu XU Yuanlong Jiang
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>=20
>=20


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From: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection
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On Jun 3, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Gunnar Engelbach =
<Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com> wrote:

>=20
> Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won't be bounced by =
the list server...
>=20
>=20
> 1) Separation between collection request and collection action
>  That is, the request for a data item must include enough information =
to properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be a =
command to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a =
command.
>=20
>  The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the potential =
attack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the =
request for collection from the collection method thereby allowing more =
flexibility in how collection is implemented.
>=20

This seems reasonable to me.  Others?

>=20
> 2) Chaining of collected values
>  The value from a collected item should be able to be used as part of =
the collection of another item.  This must be able to be expressed as =
part of the collection request so that these references can be resolved =
at the point of collection without having to interact with the =
requester.
>=20
>  For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the =
location of an installed software package so that the proper file =
version can be collected.
>=20

This makes sense to me as well, but I don=92t prefer the word =
=93chaining=94.  To me, it makes sense to call this relationship a =
composition within collection requests: A collection request can be =
composed of other collection requests (which yield collected values).  =
Thoughts?

>=20
>=20
> Thoughts?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --gun
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 11:52:32 -0400
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To: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection
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Hi,

Inline below.

Cheers,
- Ira


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Adam W. Montville <adam@stoicsecurity.com>
wrote:

>
> On Jun 3, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Gunnar Engelbach
> <Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won't be bounced by the
> list server...
> >
> >
> > 1) Separation between collection request and collection action
> >  That is, the request for a data item must include enough information t=
o
> properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be a
> command to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a comman=
d.
> >
> >  The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the potential
> attack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the request
> for collection from the collection method thereby allowing more flexibili=
ty
> in how collection is implemented.
> >
>
> This seems reasonable to me.  Others?
>
> <ira> I agree that this strong separation is an important requirement.


>  >
> > 2) Chaining of collected values
> >  The value from a collected item should be able to be used as part of
> the collection of another item.  This must be able to be expressed as par=
t
> of the collection request so that these references can be resolved at the
> point of collection without having to interact with the requester.
> >
> >  For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the
> location of an installed software package so that the proper file version
> can be collected.
> >
>
> This makes sense to me as well, but I don=E2=80=99t prefer the word =E2=
=80=9Cchaining=E2=80=9D.
>  To me, it makes sense to call this relationship a composition within
> collection requests: A collection request can be composed of other
> collection requests (which yield collected values).  Thoughts?
>

<ira> I agree with Adam that I don't like the word "chaining" here.  I
agree with
Adam that "composition" is better.  We should avoid (in requirements) such
inter-item identity reference details as the use of a registry key.  I
think the
mechanisms of collection request "composition" should not be discussed in
a requirements or architecture document.

>
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > --gun
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sacm mailing list
> > sacm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>Inline below.<br><br></div=
>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Adam W. Montville <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">ad=
am@stoicsecurity.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><br>
On Jun 3, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGu=
ard.com&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won&#39;t be bounced b=
y the list server...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) Separation between collection request and collection action<br>
&gt; =C2=A0That is, the request for a data item must include enough informa=
tion to properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be=
 a command to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a comma=
nd.<br>


&gt;<br>
&gt; =C2=A0The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the poten=
tial attack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the requ=
est for collection from the collection method thereby allowing more flexibi=
lity in how collection is implemented.<br>


&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>This seems reasonable to me. =C2=A0Others?<br>
<div class=3D""><br></div></blockquote><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,25=
5)">&lt;ira&gt; I agree that this strong separation is an important require=
ment.</span><br>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"">
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2) Chaining of collected values<br>
&gt; =C2=A0The value from a collected item should be able to be used as par=
t of the collection of another item. =C2=A0This must be able to be expresse=
d as part of the collection request so that these references can be resolve=
d at the point of collection without having to interact with the requester.=
<br>


&gt;<br>
&gt; =C2=A0For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the =
location of an installed software package so that the proper file version c=
an be collected.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>This makes sense to me as well, but I don=E2=80=99t prefer the word =
=E2=80=9Cchaining=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0To me, it makes sense to call this relati=
onship a composition within collection requests: A collection request can b=
e composed of other collection requests (which yield collected values). =C2=
=A0Thoughts?<br>

</blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">&lt;ira=
&gt; I agree with Adam that I don&#39;t like the word &quot;chaining&quot; =
here.=C2=A0 I agree with<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,=
255)">Adam that &quot;composition&quot; is better.=C2=A0 We should avoid (i=
n requirements) such<br>

</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">inter-item identity re=
ference details as the use of a registry key.=C2=A0 I think the<br></span><=
/div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">mechanisms of collection reque=
st &quot;composition&quot; should not be discussed in<br>

</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">a requirements or arch=
itecture document.<br></span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --gun<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sacm mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: "Jim Bieda (jbieda)" <jbieda@cisco.com>
To: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>, "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection
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Hi,

Also inline below.

Thanks,
Jim

From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com<mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>=
>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 8:52 AM
To: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com<mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.c=
om>>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com<mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>=
>
Cc: Gunnar Engelbach <Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com<mailto:Gunnar.Engelb=
ach@threatguard.com>>, "sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org=
<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection

Hi,

Inline below.

Cheers,
- Ira


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Adam W. Montville <adam@stoicsecurity.com<m=
ailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com>> wrote:

On Jun 3, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Gunnar Engelbach <Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard=
.com<mailto:Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com>> wrote:

>
> Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won't be bounced by the l=
ist server...
>
>
> 1) Separation between collection request and collection action
>  That is, the request for a data item must include enough information to =
properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be a comma=
nd to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a command.
>
>  The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the potential att=
ack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the request for =
collection from the collection method thereby allowing more flexibility in =
how collection is implemented.
>

This seems reasonable to me.  Others?

<ira> I agree that this strong separation is an important requirement.

<Jim> I like this separation a lot.  I would potentially add a requirement =
for 'rate limiting' requests to prevent DOS attacks, but at the very least,=
 we need to separate the request from the collection action.  Keep in mind =
that we specified that responses could be synchronous and asynchronous, so =
this separation is an implied requirement that's needed to support the sepa=
ration of these response options.

>
> 2) Chaining of collected values
>  The value from a collected item should be able to be used as part of the=
 collection of another item.  This must be able to be expressed as part of =
the collection request so that these references can be resolved at the poin=
t of collection without having to interact with the requester.
>
>  For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the location=
 of an installed software package so that the proper file version can be co=
llected.
>

This makes sense to me as well, but I don=92t prefer the word =93chaining=
=94.  To me, it makes sense to call this relationship a composition within =
collection requests: A collection request can be composed of other collecti=
on requests (which yield collected values).  Thoughts?

<ira> I agree with Adam that I don't like the word "chaining" here.  I agre=
e with
Adam that "composition" is better.  We should avoid (in requirements) such
inter-item identity reference details as the use of a registry key.  I thin=
k the
mechanisms of collection request "composition" should not be discussed in
a requirements or architecture document.

<Jim> While I think this is a reasonable requirement, I think it belongs in=
 the data format/data definition section vs. the 'requirements' section bec=
ause it specifies the internals of a request.  Maybe we should consider it =
a requirement for the data requests?


>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> --gun
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm



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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-ser=
if; ">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Hi,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Also inline below.</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Jim</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, June 4, 2014 8:52 =
AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Adam W. Montville&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com">adam@stoicsecurity.com</a>&gt;=
, Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com">Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [sacm] Possible Additi=
onal Requirements -- Collection<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
</div>
Inline below.<br>
<br>
</div>
Cheers,<br>
</div>
- Ira<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Adam W. Montvill=
e <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">adam@stoics=
ecurity.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D""><br>
On Jun 3, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gunnar.=
Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com">Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won't be bounced by th=
e list server...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) Separation between collection request and collection action<br>
&gt; &nbsp;That is, the request for a data item must include enough informa=
tion to properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be=
 a command to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a comma=
nd.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the poten=
tial attack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the requ=
est for collection from the collection method thereby allowing more flexibi=
lity in how collection is implemented.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>
This seems reasonable to me. &nbsp;Others?<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">&lt;ira&gt; I agree that this stron=
g separation is an important requirement.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#007f00">&lt;Jim&gt; I like this separation a lot. &nbs=
p;I would potentially add a requirement for 'rate limiting' requests to pre=
vent DOS attacks, but at the very least, we need to separate the request fr=
om the collection action. &nbsp;Keep in mind that
 we specified that responses could be synchronous and asynchronous, so this=
 separation is an implied requirement that's needed to support the separati=
on of these response options.</font></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><font color=3D"#007f00">&nbsp;</font><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin: 0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 20=
4); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
<div class=3D"">&gt;<br>
&gt; 2) Chaining of collected values<br>
&gt; &nbsp;The value from a collected item should be able to be used as par=
t of the collection of another item. &nbsp;This must be able to be expresse=
d as part of the collection request so that these references can be resolve=
d at the point of collection without having to
 interact with the requester.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the =
location of an installed software package so that the proper file version c=
an be collected.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>
This makes sense to me as well, but I don=92t prefer the word =93chaining=
=94. &nbsp;To me, it makes sense to call this relationship a composition wi=
thin collection requests: A collection request can be composed of other col=
lection requests (which yield collected values).
 &nbsp;Thoughts?<br>
</blockquote>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">&lt=
;ira&gt; I agree with Adam that I don't like the word &quot;chaining&quot; =
here.&nbsp; I agree with<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">Ada=
m that &quot;composition&quot; is better.&nbsp; We should avoid (in require=
ments) such<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">int=
er-item identity reference details as the use of a registry key.&nbsp; I th=
ink the<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">mec=
hanisms of collection request &quot;composition&quot; should not be discuss=
ed in<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">a r=
equirements or architecture document.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#007f00">&lt;Jim&gt; While I think this is a reasonable=
 requirement, I think it belongs in the data format/data definition section=
 vs. the 'requirements' section because it specifies the internals of a req=
uest. &nbsp;Maybe we should consider it a requirement
 for the data requests? &nbsp;</font></div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --gun<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sacm mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF-90: call for agenda items
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Hi,

It's time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. Please send your =
requests including the topic, requested time, and relevant Internet-Draft(s=
).

Thanks and Regards,

Dan


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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: "Jim Bieda (jbieda)" <jbieda@cisco.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>, "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection
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Hi,

Please see below:

From: "Jim (jbieda)" <jbieda@cisco.com<mailto:jbieda@cisco.com>>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 at 8:46 PM
To: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com<mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>>,=
 "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com<mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com>=
>
Cc: Gunnar Engelbach <Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com<mailto:Gunnar.Engelb=
ach@threatguard.com>>, "sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org=
<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection

Hi,

Also inline below.

Thanks,
Jim

From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com<mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>=
>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 8:52 AM
To: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com<mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.c=
om>>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com<mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>=
>
Cc: Gunnar Engelbach <Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com<mailto:Gunnar.Engelb=
ach@threatguard.com>>, "sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org=
<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Possible Additional Requirements -- Collection

Hi,

Inline below.

Cheers,
- Ira


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Adam W. Montville <adam@stoicsecurity.com<m=
ailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com>> wrote:

On Jun 3, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Gunnar Engelbach <Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard=
.com<mailto:Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com>> wrote:

>
> Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won't be bounced by the l=
ist server...
>
>
> 1) Separation between collection request and collection action
>  That is, the request for a data item must include enough information to =
properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be a comma=
nd to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a command.
>
>  The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the potential att=
ack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the request for =
collection from the collection method thereby allowing more flexibility in =
how collection is implemented.
>

This seems reasonable to me.  Others?

<ira> I agree that this strong separation is an important requirement.

<Jim> I like this separation a lot.  I would potentially add a requirement =
for 'rate limiting' requests to prevent DOS attacks, but at the very least,=
 we need to separate the request from the collection action.  Keep in mind =
that we specified that responses could be synchronous and asynchronous, so =
this separation is an implied requirement that's needed to support the sepa=
ration of these response options.

[NCW]  I=92m OK with this as well, I think this is part of the =93protocol=
=94, so at some point, I=92d like to break the requirements based on an agr=
eed upon categorization.  But I will add this to the requirements draft.
Jim:  I like the =93rate limiting=94 but I think that is an implementation =
details to be added to the state machine, so perhaps better on the architec=
ture state machine?

>
> 2) Chaining of collected values
>  The value from a collected item should be able to be used as part of the=
 collection of another item.  This must be able to be expressed as part of =
the collection request so that these references can be resolved at the poin=
t of collection without having to interact with the requester.
>
>  For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the location=
 of an installed software package so that the proper file version can be co=
llected.
>

This makes sense to me as well, but I don=92t prefer the word =93chaining=
=94.  To me, it makes sense to call this relationship a composition within =
collection requests: A collection request can be composed of other collecti=
on requests (which yield collected values).  Thoughts?

<ira> I agree with Adam that I don't like the word "chaining" here.  I agre=
e with
Adam that "composition" is better.  We should avoid (in requirements) such
inter-item identity reference details as the use of a registry key.  I thin=
k the
mechanisms of collection request "composition" should not be discussed in
a requirements or architecture document.

<Jim> While I think this is a reasonable requirement, I think it belongs in=
 the data format/data definition section vs. the 'requirements' section bec=
ause it specifies the internals of a request.  Maybe we should consider it =
a requirement for the data requests?

[NCW] I agree that this feels more to me towards a state machine or impleme=
ntation detail=85=85


>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> --gun
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see below:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;Jim (jbieda)&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jbieda@cisco.com">jbieda@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, June 4, 2014 at 8:=
46 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Adam W.=
 Montville&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com">adam@stoicse=
curity.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com">Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [sacm] Possible Additi=
onal Requirements -- Collection<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Hi,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Also inline below.</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Thanks,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Jim</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, June 4, 2014 8:52 =
AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Adam W. Montville&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com">adam@stoicsecurity.com</a>&gt;=
, Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com">Gunnar.Engelbach@threatguard.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [sacm] Possible Additi=
onal Requirements -- Collection<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
</div>
Inline below.<br>
<br>
</div>
Cheers,<br>
</div>
- Ira<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Adam W. Montvill=
e <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com" target=3D"_blank">adam@stoics=
ecurity.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D""><br>
On Jun 3, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Gunnar.=
Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com">Gunnar.Engelbach@ThreatGuard.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hopefully mail issues are resolved now and this won't be bounced by th=
e list server...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) Separation between collection request and collection action<br>
&gt; &nbsp;That is, the request for a data item must include enough informa=
tion to properly identify the item to collect, but the request shall not be=
 a command to directly execute nor directly applied as arguments to a comma=
nd.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;The purpose of this requirement is primarily to reduce the poten=
tial attack vectors, but has the additional benefit of abstracting the requ=
est for collection from the collection method thereby allowing more flexibi=
lity in how collection is implemented.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>
This seems reasonable to me. &nbsp;Others?<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">&lt;ira&gt; I agree that this stron=
g separation is an important requirement.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#007f00">&lt;Jim&gt; I like this separation a lot. &nbs=
p;I would potentially add a requirement for 'rate limiting' requests to pre=
vent DOS attacks, but at the very least, we need to separate the request fr=
om the collection action. &nbsp;Keep in mind that
 we specified that responses could be synchronous and asynchronous, so this=
 separation is an implied requirement that's needed to support the separati=
on of these response options.</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[NCW] &nbsp;I=92m OK with this as well, I think this is part of the =
=93protocol=94, so at some point, I=92d like to break the requirements base=
d on an agreed upon categorization. &nbsp;But I will add this to the requir=
ements draft.</div>
<div>Jim: &nbsp;I like the =93rate limiting=94 but I think that is an imple=
mentation details to be added to the state machine, so perhaps better on th=
e architecture state machine?</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><font color=3D"#007f00">&nbsp;</font><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin: 0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 20=
4); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
<div class=3D"">&gt;<br>
&gt; 2) Chaining of collected values<br>
&gt; &nbsp;The value from a collected item should be able to be used as par=
t of the collection of another item. &nbsp;This must be able to be expresse=
d as part of the collection request so that these references can be resolve=
d at the point of collection without having to
 interact with the requester.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;For example, using the value of a registry key to determine the =
location of an installed software package so that the proper file version c=
an be collected.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>
This makes sense to me as well, but I don=92t prefer the word =93chaining=
=94. &nbsp;To me, it makes sense to call this relationship a composition wi=
thin collection requests: A collection request can be composed of other col=
lection requests (which yield collected values).
 &nbsp;Thoughts?<br>
</blockquote>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">&lt=
;ira&gt; I agree with Adam that I don't like the word &quot;chaining&quot; =
here.&nbsp; I agree with<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">Ada=
m that &quot;composition&quot; is better.&nbsp; We should avoid (in require=
ments) such<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">int=
er-item identity reference details as the use of a registry key.&nbsp; I th=
ink the<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">mec=
hanisms of collection request &quot;composition&quot; should not be discuss=
ed in<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)">a r=
equirements or architecture document.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#007f00">&lt;Jim&gt; While I think this is a reasonable=
 requirement, I think it belongs in the data format/data definition section=
 vs. the 'requirements' section because it specifies the internals of a req=
uest. &nbsp;Maybe we should consider it a requirement
 for the data requests? &nbsp;</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[NCW] I agree that this feels more to me towards a state machine or im=
plementation detail=85=85</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --gun<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sacm mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Requirements -04 uploaded
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Hi,

I=92m just submitted a new version (-04) of the Requirements draft; per the=
 request at the last interim call, I=92ve removed the architecture section.
I=92ll be submitting a different draft of the Architecture based on the arc=
hitecture design team by end of this week/early next week.

Meanwhile, the requirements draft is in http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-camwinget-sacm-requirements/

Thanks, Nancy

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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I=92m just submitted a new version (-04) of the Requirements draft; pe=
r the request at the last interim call, I=92ve removed the architecture sec=
tion.</div>
<div>I=92ll be submitting a different draft of the Architecture based on th=
e architecture design team by end of this week/early next week.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Meanwhile, the requirements draft is in&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/draft-camwinget-sacm-requirements">http://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-camwinget-sacm-requirements</a>/</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks, Nancy</div>
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From: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 08:42:14 -0500
To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/yjMXZC0xxpW5SnxrG5mfVlKPbac
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Requirements -04 uploaded
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Thank you!

> On Jun 8, 2014, at 7:17 PM, "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.=
com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m just submitted a new version (-04) of the Requirements draft; p=
er the request at the last interim call, I=E2=80=99ve removed the architectu=
re section.
> I=E2=80=99ll be submitting a different draft of the Architecture based on t=
he architecture design team by end of this week/early next week.
>=20
> Meanwhile, the requirements draft is in http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-camwinget-sacm-requirements/
>=20
> Thanks, Nancy
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Thank you!</div><div><br>On Jun 8, 201=
4, at 7:17 PM, "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ncamwing@=
cisco.com">ncamwing@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div>

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-12=
52">


<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I=E2=80=99m just submitted a new version (-04) of the Requirements draf=
t; per the request at the last interim call, I=E2=80=99ve removed the archit=
ecture section.</div>
<div>I=E2=80=99ll be submitting a different draft of the Architecture based o=
n the architecture design team by end of this week/early next week.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Meanwhile, the requirements draft is in&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-camwinget-sacm-requirements">http://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-camwinget-sacm-requirements</a>/</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks, Nancy</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>sacm mailing list</span><br><spa=
n><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href=
=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/listinfo/sacm</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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Apologies, but will those who took notes at the last virtual interim =
please send them to me?

Thanks,

Adam

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Minutes for the virtual interim meeting have been uploaded here: =
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2014/05/28/sacm/minutes/minutes-in=
terim-2014-sacm-3.  Please review them for accuracy.

Thanks to Gunnar, Dave M., and Josh for their notes (Lisa too).

Adam

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Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
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A reminder that we are still awaiting agenda requests. =20

We=92ll probably want to talk more about specific requirements and =
architectures, but anything on information/data models at this point?  =
We have requested two 2.5 hour slots.

Adam


On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> =
wrote:

> Hi,
> =20
> It=92s time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. Please =
send your requests including the topic, requested time, and relevant =
Internet-Draft(s).
> =20
> Thanks and Regards,
> =20
> Dan
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>A =
reminder that we are still awaiting agenda requests. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>We=92ll probably want to talk more about =
specific requirements and architectures, but anything on =
information/data models at this point? &nbsp;We have requested two 2.5 =
hour =
slots.</div><div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On =
Jun 5, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dromasca@avaya.com">dromasca@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Hi,<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">It=92s =
time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. Please send your =
requests including the topic, requested time, and relevant =
Internet-Draft(s).<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks and =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">Dan<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div>________________________________=
_______________<br>sacm mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">sacm@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></div></blockquo=
te></div><br></body></html>=

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From: Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net>
To: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
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Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
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Hi Adam,

I'd like two agenda items, please:
1) A SACM information model based on TNC
2) XMPP protocol extensions for use in SACM transport

We will have Internet-Drafts and overview slides for each topic.
One of my co-authors and/or I will present - if you can put me
as a placeholder presenter for now, and I can update you closer
to the meeting date, that would be ideal.

Thanks,
Lisa



-----Original Message-----
From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam W. Montville
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:12 PM
To: sacm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items

A reminder that we are still awaiting agenda requests.

We'll probably want to talk more about specific requirements and architectu=
res, but anything on information/data models at this point?  We have reques=
ted two 2.5 hour slots.

Adam


On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> wrot=
e:


        Hi,

        It's time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. Please se=
nd your requests including the topic, requested time, and relevant Internet=
-Draft(s).

        Thanks and Regards,

        Dan

        _______________________________________________
        sacm mailing list
        sacm@ietf.org
        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm



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From: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
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Hi Lisa,

Noted!  Thank you. =20

Do you have any idea how much time you would like?

Adam

On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net> =
wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>=20
> I'd like two agenda items, please:
> 1) A SACM information model based on TNC
> 2) XMPP protocol extensions for use in SACM transport
>=20
> We will have Internet-Drafts and overview slides for each topic.
> One of my co-authors and/or I will present - if you can put me
> as a placeholder presenter for now, and I can update you closer
> to the meeting date, that would be ideal.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Lisa
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam W. =
Montville
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:12 PM
> To: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
>=20
> A reminder that we are still awaiting agenda requests.
>=20
> We'll probably want to talk more about specific requirements and =
architectures, but anything on information/data models at this point?  =
We have requested two 2.5 hour slots.
>=20
> Adam
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>        Hi,
>=20
>        It's time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. =
Please send your requests including the topic, requested time, and =
relevant Internet-Draft(s).
>=20
>        Thanks and Regards,
>=20
>        Dan
>=20
>        _______________________________________________
>        sacm mailing list
>        sacm@ietf.org
>        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>=20
>=20


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From nobody Tue Jun 24 05:09:45 2014
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From: Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net>
To: "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
Thread-Index: Ac+A03WS1xGrj3UzRxayEDpiIOUKjwK7IjQAAMzJ5uAAAHkcgAArMluw
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:09:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
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We'd like 30-45 minutes for each topic, if possible... =20

					Regards,

						Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam W. Montville [mailto:adam@stoicsecurity.com]=20
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 11:09 AM
To: Lisa Lorenzin
Cc: sacm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items

Hi Lisa,

Noted!  Thank you. =20

Do you have any idea how much time you would like?

Adam

On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net> wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>=20
> I'd like two agenda items, please:
> 1) A SACM information model based on TNC
> 2) XMPP protocol extensions for use in SACM transport
>=20
> We will have Internet-Drafts and overview slides for each topic.
> One of my co-authors and/or I will present - if you can put me
> as a placeholder presenter for now, and I can update you closer
> to the meeting date, that would be ideal.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Lisa
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam W. Montville
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:12 PM
> To: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
>=20
> A reminder that we are still awaiting agenda requests.
>=20
> We'll probably want to talk more about specific requirements and architec=
tures, but anything on information/data models at this point?  We have requ=
ested two 2.5 hour slots.
>=20
> Adam
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
>=20
>        Hi,
>=20
>        It's time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. Please s=
end your requests including the topic, requested time, and relevant Interne=
t-Draft(s).
>=20
>        Thanks and Regards,
>=20
>        Dan
>=20
>        _______________________________________________
>        sacm mailing list
>        sacm@ietf.org
>        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>=20
>=20


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To: Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net>
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/FmCMz_V0E_bIIrFEeCpQqdKGszw
Cc: Atherton John <john.atherton@surevine.com>, "Adam W. Montville" <adam@stoicsecurity.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
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Hi Lisa,

Have you posted a draft yet on the XMPP extensions?  If so, can you share th=
e link? =20

There is an XMPP extension for IODEF, but it has not become an IETF draft ye=
t.  Not sure if they could be combined for a generalized approach, but that m=
ight be good.  There are a couple of implementations for the IODEF extension=
.  I'm copying John Atherton who led one of those efforts and published a wr=
ite up in the IODEF implementation report.

Thank you,
Kathleen=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net> wrote:=

>=20
> Hi Adam,
>=20
> I'd like two agenda items, please:
> 1) A SACM information model based on TNC
> 2) XMPP protocol extensions for use in SACM transport
>=20
> We will have Internet-Drafts and overview slides for each topic.
> One of my co-authors and/or I will present - if you can put me
> as a placeholder presenter for now, and I can update you closer
> to the meeting date, that would be ideal.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Lisa
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam W. Montville
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:12 PM
> To: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
>=20
> A reminder that we are still awaiting agenda requests.
>=20
> We'll probably want to talk more about specific requirements and architect=
ures, but anything on information/data models at this point?  We have reques=
ted two 2.5 hour slots.
>=20
> Adam
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> wro=
te:
>=20
>=20
>        Hi,
>=20
>        It's time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. Please se=
nd your requests including the topic, requested time, and relevant Internet-=
Draft(s).
>=20
>        Thanks and Regards,
>=20
>        Dan
>=20
>        _______________________________________________
>        sacm mailing list
>        sacm@ietf.org
>        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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From: Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
Thread-Index: Ac+A03WS1xGrj3UzRxayEDpiIOUKjwK7IjQAAPqiDX8AACHo8A==
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:54:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
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Hi Kathleen,

Still polishing it up, sorry - we expect to post both next week.

Interesting about the IODEF extension - I'll share this with my
collaborators, thanks!

						Regards,

							Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Moriarty [mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:48 PM
To: Lisa Lorenzin
Cc: Adam W. Montville; sacm@ietf.org; Atherton John
Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items

Hi Lisa,

Have you posted a draft yet on the XMPP extensions?  If so, can you share t=
he link? =20

There is an XMPP extension for IODEF, but it has not become an IETF draft y=
et.  Not sure if they could be combined for a generalized approach, but tha=
t might be good.  There are a couple of implementations for the IODEF exten=
sion.  I'm copying John Atherton who led one of those efforts and published=
 a write up in the IODEF implementation report.

Thank you,
Kathleen=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Lisa Lorenzin <llorenzin@juniper.net> wrote=
:
>=20
> Hi Adam,
>=20
> I'd like two agenda items, please:
> 1) A SACM information model based on TNC
> 2) XMPP protocol extensions for use in SACM transport
>=20
> We will have Internet-Drafts and overview slides for each topic.
> One of my co-authors and/or I will present - if you can put me
> as a placeholder presenter for now, and I can update you closer
> to the meeting date, that would be ideal.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Lisa
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam W. Montville
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:12 PM
> To: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] IETF-90: call for agenda items
>=20
> A reminder that we are still awaiting agenda requests.
>=20
> We'll probably want to talk more about specific requirements and architec=
tures, but anything on information/data models at this point?  We have requ=
ested two 2.5 hour slots.
>=20
> Adam
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
>=20
>        Hi,
>=20
>        It's time to build the agenda for the meeting at IETF-90. Please s=
end your requests including the topic, requested time, and relevant Interne=
t-Draft(s).
>=20
>        Thanks and Regards,
>=20
>        Dan
>=20
>        _______________________________________________
>        sacm mailing list
>        sacm@ietf.org
>        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


From nobody Wed Jun 25 00:58:06 2014
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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Proposed architecture draft -00 posted
Thread-Index: AQHPkEsvxxchIuJXM0qCfZoSgl7ZIQ==
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 07:58:00 +0000
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Subject: [sacm] Proposed architecture draft -00 posted
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Hi everyone,

Thanks to the SACM Architecture design team, we=92ve posted draft =9600 for=
 a SACM Architecture proposal in

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-camwinget-sacm-architecture-00

Please review and provide comments as I=92m sure we=92ll also be discussing=
 it in Toronto=85.

Nancy.

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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
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ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi everyone,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks to the SACM Architecture design team, we=92ve posted draft =960=
0 for a SACM Architecture proposal in</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-camwinget-sacm-architectur=
e-00">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-camwinget-sacm-architecture-00</a></=
div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please review and provide comments as I=92m sure we=92ll also be discu=
ssing it in Toronto=85.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Nancy.=
</div>
</body>
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