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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be considered for the WG IM
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/ebzq_efZNxNK-pYG_xPDSehAOXA>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be considered for the WG IM
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So far, I haven't heard feedback on any of these changes.  Do they all seem=
 reasonable?

Most are straight forward, but, I know the group wanted to discuss SACM sta=
tements and content-element structures more (for example).  I am fine givin=
g another day or two to review the changes if needed, but, I also need to h=
ave all the changes in an updated draft for June 8th (next Wednesday) :).

If you have any thoughts on these changes, please bring them up as soon as =
possible so we can have any questions/issues resolved by Friday of this wee=
k.

Thanks,

Danny

From: Haynes, Dan
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 8:20 AM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.c=
om>; sacm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be =
considered for the WG IM

Just an update on this. I committed the proposed changes regarding the merg=
er in a branch in the IM GitHub repository [1].

For your convenience, I also have attached a updated text version so you ca=
n diff it against the version up on the IETF site [2].

A couple of things to note about this draft (in addition to the changes lis=
ted earlier in this thread):


*         Includes text for SACM Statements and SACM Content-Elements. Ther=
e was discussion around whether or not this was needed at the Virtual Inter=
im Meeting [3]. Please review and provide feedback.

*         Contains change from "Object" to "Subject". There is ongoing disc=
ussion here [4].

*         Does not include the IEs from the I-D IM. These will be carried o=
ver once the IPFIX syntax is updated as long as there are no objections to =
the proposed IEs.  So far, we haven't heard any, but, the thread is here [5=
] in case you want to provide any feedback.

*         The WG IM is now "standards track" instead of "informational". I =
had forgotten to update that in the XML version of the I-D when we made the=
 decision last year [6].

*         Removes text about SACM Components [7]. This was discussed here [=
8].

*         The updated IPFIX syntax is not included in this revision.

As a reminder, we have put a deadline of May 31st for review and feedback s=
o that we can have a revised draft for June 8th which is a week before the =
next virtual interim meting (June 15th).

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/blob/propos=
ed-im-merger-changes/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model.xml
[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/
[3] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg04043.html
[4] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg04014.html
[5] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03961.html
[6] https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/29
[7] https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/33
[8] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03955.html


From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 7:42 AM
To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com<mailto:dromasca@avaya.com>>; s=
acm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM=
 to be considered for the WG IM

Hi Dan,

That seems like a reasonable request.  I will take the current WG IM and in=
tegrate the proposed changes from the I-D IM into it and send it out on thi=
s thread so everyone can more easily review the changes.

Thanks,

Danny

From: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 6:29 AM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>; sacm@ietf.or=
g<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be =
considered for the WG IM

Hi,

I do not know if I am the only one, but I have difficulties visualizing the=
 proposed changes as a 'dry' intellectual exercise.

I suspect that you have a work-in-progress version that includes these chan=
ges. Why do not you post it together with the Log of Changes, and we can mo=
re easily see and debate what we like or do not like. Any I-D is anyway w-i=
-p.

Regards,

Dan


From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:55 PM
To: sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to =
be considered for the WG IM

Hi Everyone,

More recently, we have continued our I-D and WG IM merger work in Henk's Gi=
tHub repository [1] for easier collaboration and in case anyone wants to fo=
llow along with our progress :).

With that said, Henk, Nancy, Mike, and I have spent some more time merging =
the text between the I-D IM [1] and the WG IM [2] and would like to make so=
me additional proposals.


1.       Replace the text in the beginning of Section 3 of the WG IM with t=
he text from Section "Structure of Information Elements" of the I-D IM (not=
e: we plan to maintain the current IPFIX syntax sections although it will b=
e updated in the near future to address some of the concerns Jim raised)



2.       Insert Sections "SACM Content Elements" and "SACM Statements" of t=
he I-D IM into Section 3 of the WG IM as subsections



3.       Replace Section 3.4 of the WG IM with Section "Relationships" in t=
he I-D IM


4.       Insert Section "Events" of the I-D IM into the Section 3 of the WG=
 IM as a subsection. Remove Section 5.4.5 of the WG IM.

Please review and provide any feedback by Tuesday May 31st.  Let me know if=
 you have any questions.

As a side note, we plan to briefly discuss SACM statements, content element=
s, relationships, events, and categories at tomorrow's virtual interim meet=
ing.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://github.com/henkbirkholz/sacmim/blob/master/draft-camwinget-sacm=
-information-model-01.md<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps=
-3A__github.com_henkbirkholz_sacmim_blob_master_draft-2Dcamwinget-2Dsacm-2D=
information-2Dmodel-2D01.md&d=3DCwQFAg&c=3DBFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&r=3DI4dzG=
xR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&m=3D9ZyV_bkMpYQnoCCKlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC=
1ouRXv2B1M4&s=3D3SjJWUS1QN6nPl-TW5joJfntnd8o2Tmd6VSVa91Fe5k&e=3D>
[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/<htt=
ps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_do=
c_draft-2Dietf-2Dsacm-2Dinformation-2Dmodel_&d=3DCwQFAg&c=3DBFpWQw8bsuKpl1S=
giZH64Q&r=3DI4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&m=3D9ZyV_bkMpYQnoCC=
KlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC1ouRXv2B1M4&s=3DJREucFbqo4Xgn1ObI71zkq0rDNAJnjOWaM5oO-S93g=
Y&e=3D>



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So far, I haven&#8217;=
t heard feedback on any of these changes.&nbsp; Do they all seem reasonable=
?&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Most are straight forw=
ard, but, I know the group wanted to discuss SACM statements and content-el=
ement structures more (for example).&nbsp; I am fine giving another day or =
two to review the changes if needed, but,
 I also need to have all the changes in an updated draft for June 8<sup>th<=
/sup> (next Wednesday)
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D">.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">If you have any though=
ts on these changes, please bring them up as soon as possible so we can hav=
e any questions/issues resolved by Friday of this week.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Danny<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Haynes, Dan <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016 8:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;dhaynes@mitre.org&gt;; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;=
dromasca@avaya.com&gt;; sacm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM=
 to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Just an update on this=
. I committed the proposed changes regarding the merger in a branch in the =
IM GitHub repository [1].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">For your convenience, =
I also have attached a updated text version so you can diff it against the =
version up on the IETF site [2].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">A couple of things to =
note about this draft (in addition to the changes listed earlier in this th=
read):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Includes text =
for SACM Statements and SACM Content-Elements. There was discussion around =
whether or not this was needed at the Virtual Interim Meeting [3]. Please r=
eview and provide feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Contains chang=
e from &#8220;Object&#8221; to &#8220;Subject&#8221;. There is ongoing disc=
ussion here [4].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Does not inclu=
de the IEs from the I-D IM. These will be carried over once the IPFIX synta=
x is updated as long as there are no objections to the proposed IEs.&nbsp; =
So far, we haven&#8217;t heard any, but, the
 thread is here [5] in case you want to provide any feedback.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">The WG IM is n=
ow &#8220;standards track&#8221; instead of &#8220;informational&#8221;. I =
had forgotten to update that in the XML version of the I-D when we made the=
 decision last year [6].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Removes text a=
bout SACM Components [7]. This was discussed here [8].<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">The updated IP=
FIX syntax is not included in this revision.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">As a reminder, we have=
 put a deadline of May 31<sup>st</sup> for review and feedback so that we c=
an have a revised draft for June 8<sup>th</sup> which is a week before the =
next virtual interim meting (June 15<sup>th</sup>).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Let me know if you hav=
e any questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[1] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-inf=
ormation-model/blob/proposed-im-merger-changes/draft-ietf-sacm-information-=
model.xml"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ie=
tf-sacm-information-model/blob/proposed-im-merger-changes/draft-ietf-sacm-i=
nformation-model.xml</span></a></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[2] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-s=
acm-information-model/"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/</span></a></span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[3] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg04043.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg04043.html</span></a></span><span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[4] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg04014.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg04014.html</span></a></span><span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[5] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg03961.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg03961.html</span></a></span><span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[6] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-inf=
ormation-model/issues/29"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://github.com/=
sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/29</span></a></span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[7] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-inf=
ormation-model/issues/33"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://github.com/=
sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/33</span></a></span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[8] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg03955.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg03955.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 17, 2016 7:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dromasca@avaya.com">d=
romasca@avaya.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the=
 I-D IM to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Dan,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">That seems like a reas=
onable request.&nbsp; I will take the current WG IM and integrate the propo=
sed changes from the I-D IM into it and send it out on this thread so every=
one can more easily review the changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [<a href=3D"mailto=
:dromasca@avaya.com">mailto:dromasca@avaya.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 17, 2016 6:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mit=
re.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM=
 to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not know if I am =
the only one, but I have difficulties visualizing the proposed changes as a=
 &#8216;dry&#8217; intellectual exercise.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I suspect that you hav=
e a work-in-progress version that includes these changes. Why do not you po=
st it together with the Log of Changes, and we can more easily see and deba=
te what we like or do not like. Any
 I-D is anyway w-i-p. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dan<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bou=
nces@ietf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 16, 2016 9:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D=
 IM to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Everyone, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">More recently, we have continued our I-D and WG IM m=
erger work in Henk&#8217;s GitHub repository [1] for easier collaboration a=
nd in case anyone wants to follow along with our progress :).<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With that said, Henk, Nancy, Mike, and I have spent =
some more time merging the text between the I-D IM [1] and the WG IM [2] an=
d would like to make some additional proposals.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">1.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Replace the text in the beginning of Section 3 of the WG IM with the=
 text from Section &#8220;Structure of Information Elements&#8221; of the I=
-D IM (note: we plan to maintain the current IPFIX syntax sections although=
 it will be updated in the near future to address
 some of the concerns Jim raised)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">2.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Insert Sections &#8220;SACM Content Elements&#8221; and &#8220;SACM =
Statements&#8221; of the I-D IM into Section 3 of the WG IM as subsections<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">3.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Replace Section 3.4 of the WG IM with Section &#8220;Relationships&#=
8221; in the I-D IM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">4.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Insert Section &#8220;Events&#8221; of the I-D IM into the Section 3=
 of the WG IM as a subsection. Remove Section 5.4.5 of the WG IM.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please review and provide any feedback by Tuesday Ma=
y 31st.&nbsp; Let me know if you have any questions.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As a side note, we plan to briefly discuss SACM stat=
ements, content elements, relationships, events, and categories at tomorrow=
&#8217;s virtual interim meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/=
url?u=3Dhttps-3A__github.com_henkbirkholz_sacmim_blob_master_draft-2Dcamwin=
get-2Dsacm-2Dinformation-2Dmodel-2D01.md&amp;d=3DCwQFAg&amp;c=3DBFpWQw8bsuK=
pl1SgiZH64Q&amp;r=3DI4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&amp;m=3D9Zy=
V_bkMpYQnoCCKlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC1ouRXv2B1M4&amp;s=3D3SjJWUS1QN6nPl-TW5joJfntnd=
8o2Tmd6VSVa91Fe5k&amp;e=3D">
https://github.com/henkbirkholz/sacmim/blob/master/draft-camwinget-sacm-inf=
ormation-model-01.md</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[2]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n><a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatra=
cker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dsacm-2Dinformation-2Dmodel_&amp;d=3DCwQFAg=
&amp;c=3DBFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&amp;r=3DI4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvd=
rphpBsFA&amp;m=3D9ZyV_bkMpYQnoCCKlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC1ouRXv2B1M4&amp;s=3DJREucF=
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g/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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Hi Gunnar,

Thanks, as always, for the good insights. If I can paraphrase what I think I
am hearing: you are asserting that the use of certain tags is likely to be
context dependent. Specifically, certain types of tags will primarily be
used on certain OSs and/or on devices in a certain role. A centralized
normalization function needs to have translators for the tags of every
context in the enterprise. However, if translation is done on the endpoints
(i.e., within that very context that is producing the tags) those endpoints
only need to support the translators appropriate for their specific context.
Moreover, as new contexts are added to an enterprise, I think you are
arguing that it is more natural to account for the new varieties of tags
that could arise in those contexts locally (i.e., on the endpoint) rather
than updating a central server every time a new context is added.

Do I have this correct? What are others' thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Charles

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:53 PM
> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; Adam Montville
> <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
> 
> 
> The reality is that not all tagging formats are going to be implemented
> on the first iteration and new ones will be devised and revisions made
> to the existing ones.
> 
> Depending on the vendor, the most likely outcome is that only a few of
> the most common tagging systems will ever be implemented and if your
> enterprise uses any others you are just out of luck -- unless you do
> some in-house work or some other vendor is willing to invest the time
> and effort into supporting the less common tag types.
> 
> If the normalization is done centrally by the Validator then the
> Validators (and every other consumer) needs to support all tag types
> right from the start, keep updating as the various tag formats change,
> and be done thus by every vendor.
> 
> Which, I can guarantee, won't happen.  And even if it did, the develop
> and release cycle on large systems is typically 1 to 2 years, which is
> just too large a gap in this space.
> 
> I also don't expect collectors to implement all tag types.  Even
> accounting for the obvious omissions -- a Windows agent wouldn't be
> expected to have any awareness of tagging specific to OSX, HP-UX,
> Android, etc,  -- I think we can count on agents having incomplete
> coverage.  In fact, I think we should plan on that being the case.
> 
> But if the collector does the translation to a standardized format, then
> that data is available for any SACM usage immediately with no need for
> updates to any other part of the SACM environment.  In the worst case I
> would have my own IT department develop something to fill in the gaps,
> and the only part they would need to worry about is the tag
> collector-to-common-DM for that specific tag type.
> 
> The downside is that I may need to install and maintain multiple agents
> on some systems, but the most likely case is that that kind of
> customization will only be necessary to cover systems that otherwise
> wouldn't be covered at all.
> 
> So, yeah, your option (C) is what I would go with with (E) being the
> most palatable of any of the other options.
> 
> 
> --gun
> 
> 
> On 5/31/2016 10:52 AM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> > Hi Gunnar,
> >
> > Comments below:
> >
> >>>> 3) Tag information intended for use in a SACM environment is
> translated
> >>>> into a common standard data format prior to delivery from the
> >>>> collector.  This will still create some limitation on the number of
> >>>> formats supportable within a SACM environment since it is reliant on
> > the
> >>>> collector being able to do that translation, but any data that does
> >>>> enter the SACM sphere will be usable.
> >>> To me, this doesn't seem
> >>> different from the earlier concerns about the Posture Collector
> > receiving
> >>> data it cannot parse.
> >> Well, no, it's not commensurate, for at least three reasons:
> >>
> >> 1)  The tag types that need to be known to a collector is a subset of
> >> all tag types, since a collector runs on a particular type of system.
A
> >> Windows agent would not be expected to be able to handle OSX-specific
> >> tag types.
> > True - I clearly overstated the burden on individual endpoints, so thank
you
> > for the correction.
> >
> > That said, from an enterprise perspective I would think the set of
> > translators would be constant regardless of whether translation occurred
> on
> > endpoints or servers. If one endpoint has tags of interest that are not
one
> > of the specified SACM forms, the appropriate translator needs to be
> > somewhere. The question is whether that somewhere should be the
> endpoint or
> > the server. (Or, as you note below, on the end-consumer.)
> 
> >> 2)  Similar to (1), a single collector does not necessarily need to be
> >> able to translate every tag type it could possibly come across. This
> >> might be because multiple collection methods are in use, a collector is
> >> built for a single narrow function, etc.
> > I think I agree, but I think I would phrase it differently. I would say
that
> > not all tags on an endpoint are necessarily of interest to the
enterprise.
> > Some types of tags might be generally unreliable in nature (e.g., a poor
> > correlator with software presence), might not have the needed metadata
> bout
> > installed software products, or could be for software the enterprise
> doesn't
> > care about monitoring. In the first two cases, the presence of an
alternate
> > tag type from the same source (and covering the same products) could
> render
> > the second format completely unnecessary.
> >
> > Are we saying the same thing using different words here?
> >
> >> 3)  There is more than one consumer for the collected data.  It could
be
> >> for vulnerability analysis, license administration, inventory,
> >> compliance, and so on.  Every current and future use for that
> >> information would need to be able to parse every supported tag type in
> >> order to do its function.  A considerable amount of duplication to say
> >> the very least.  The same can be said for every other type of data
being
> >> collected from an endpoint.
> > I think you are talking about a scenario where every end consumer of
tags
> is
> > responsible for normalization. That is certainly yet another option
(call it
> > option 4), although I agree that it has the weaknesses you note here. I
> > would argue that this is not equivalent to having normalization done on
the
> > Posture Validator, which is more what I was thinking of in my previous
> > email.
> >
> > Given this discussion, it might be useful to recast our options based on
who
> > is responsible for data normalization.
> >
> > A) No normalization + data model. Posture Collectors collect and SWID
> M&A
> > transports only a defined set of tag types and formats. All tags that
are
> > not expressed in those formats are not collected and are ignored.
(Former
> > option 1)
> > B) No normalization + no data model. Posture Collectors collect and SWID
> M&A
> > transports any type or format of tags. Tag consumers collecting tags
from
> > the CMDB/Posture Validator get whatever tags they can understand and
> other
> > types of tags are ignored.
> > C) Posture Collector normalization. The Posture Collector is responsible
for
> > normalizing the tags collected on an endpoint prior to delivery to a
Posture
> > Validator. SWID M&A supports transmission of a defined set of tag types
> and
> > formats, to which the Posture Collector translates. (Option 3 from
Gunnar's
> > earlier email)
> > D) Posture Validator normalization. Posture Collectors collect and SWID
> M&A
> > transports any type or format of tags. The receiving Posture Validator
is
> > responsible for normalizing the incoming data to a set of types and
formats
> > identified by SACM (but whose specification is outside the scope of SWID
> M&A
> > itself).
> > E) Consumer normalization. Posture Collectors collect and SWID M&A
> > transports any type or format of tags. Tags are stored on the Posture
> > Validator or CMDB until a consumer needs them. The consumer then
> collects
> > the relevant tags and is responsible for translating any tags into a
format
> > it can consume. (Option 4 from this email)
> >
> > Gunnar, I believe you are an advocate of C, correct? I also think both
of
> > use agree that options B and E are probably bad ideas since the data
> > consumers can have no idea as to what they are going to get. Personally,
I
> > think I'm more of a fan of D - it has a centralized rather than
distributed
> > normalization function and can avoid unnecessary data loss.
> >
> > Gunnar, have I misinterpreted any of your comments? Do others have any
> > thoughts on this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Charles
> >


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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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To: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
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Cc: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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	charset=utf-8

To clarify, this isn=E2=80=99t as much about tags as it is about the =
normalization of different tagging structures, correct?  In that case, I =
think that the normalization/translation should be happening on the =
endpoints or from within those contexts.

So, information would go from context-specific format to normalized =
format for centralized needs (i.e. inventory assessment, reporting, what =
have you).  Then, if something needs to be done with that specific piece =
of software at the endpoint, we may need a way to get back from the =
normalized format to the context-specific format, or at least to =
reference that context-specific format distinctly.

Thoughts?


> On Jun 1, 2016, at 2:19 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Gunnar,
>=20
> Thanks, as always, for the good insights. If I can paraphrase what I =
think I
> am hearing: you are asserting that the use of certain tags is likely =
to be
> context dependent. Specifically, certain types of tags will primarily =
be
> used on certain OSs and/or on devices in a certain role. A centralized
> normalization function needs to have translators for the tags of every
> context in the enterprise. However, if translation is done on the =
endpoints
> (i.e., within that very context that is producing the tags) those =
endpoints
> only need to support the translators appropriate for their specific =
context.
> Moreover, as new contexts are added to an enterprise, I think you are
> arguing that it is more natural to account for the new varieties of =
tags
> that could arise in those contexts locally (i.e., on the endpoint) =
rather
> than updating a central server every time a new context is added.
>=20
> Do I have this correct? What are others' thoughts on this?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Charles
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:53 PM
>> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; Adam Montville
>> <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
>>=20
>>=20
>> The reality is that not all tagging formats are going to be =
implemented
>> on the first iteration and new ones will be devised and revisions =
made
>> to the existing ones.
>>=20
>> Depending on the vendor, the most likely outcome is that only a few =
of
>> the most common tagging systems will ever be implemented and if your
>> enterprise uses any others you are just out of luck -- unless you do
>> some in-house work or some other vendor is willing to invest the time
>> and effort into supporting the less common tag types.
>>=20
>> If the normalization is done centrally by the Validator
>>=20
>> If the normalization is done centrally by the Validator then the
>> Validators (and every other consumer) needs to support all tag types
>> right from the start, keep updating as the various tag formats =
change,
>> and be done thus by every vendor.
>>=20
>> Which, I can guarantee, won't happen.  And even if it did, the =
develop
>> and release cycle on large systems is typically 1 to 2 years, which =
is
>> just too large a gap in this space.
>>=20
>> I also don't expect collectors to implement all tag types.  Even
>> accounting for the obvious omissions -- a Windows agent wouldn't be
>> expected to have any awareness of tagging specific to OSX, HP-UX,
>> Android, etc,  -- I think we can count on agents having incomplete
>> coverage.  In fact, I think we should plan on that being the case.
>>=20
>> But if the collector does the translation to a standardized format, =
then
>> that data is available for any SACM usage immediately with no need =
for
>> updates to any other part of the SACM environment.  In the worst case =
I
>> would have my own IT department develop something to fill in the =
gaps,
>> and the only part they would need to worry about is the tag
>> collector-to-common-DM for that specific tag type.
>>=20
>> The downside is that I may need to install and maintain multiple =
agents
>> on some systems, but the most likely case is that that kind of
>> customization will only be necessary to cover systems that otherwise
>> wouldn't be covered at all.
>>=20
>> So, yeah, your option (C) is what I would go with with (E) being the
>> most palatable of any of the other options.
>>=20
>>=20
>> --gun
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 5/31/2016 10:52 AM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
>>> Hi Gunnar,
>>>=20
>>> Comments below:
>>>=20
>>>>>> 3) Tag information intended for use in a SACM environment is
>> translated
>>>>>> into a common standard data format prior to delivery from the
>>>>>> collector.  This will still create some limitation on the number =
of
>>>>>> formats supportable within a SACM environment since it is reliant =
on
>>> the
>>>>>> collector being able to do that translation, but any data that =
does
>>>>>> enter the SACM sphere will be usable.
>>>>> To me, this doesn't seem
>>>>> different from the earlier concerns about the Posture Collector
>>> receiving
>>>>> data it cannot parse.
>>>> Well, no, it's not commensurate, for at least three reasons:
>>>>=20
>>>> 1)  The tag types that need to be known to a collector is a subset =
of
>>>> all tag types, since a collector runs on a particular type of =
system.
> A
>>>> Windows agent would not be expected to be able to handle =
OSX-specific
>>>> tag types.
>>> True - I clearly overstated the burden on individual endpoints, so =
thank
> you
>>> for the correction.
>>>=20
>>> That said, from an enterprise perspective I would think the set of
>>> translators would be constant regardless of whether translation =
occurred
>> on
>>> endpoints or servers. If one endpoint has tags of interest that are =
not
> one
>>> of the specified SACM forms, the appropriate translator needs to be
>>> somewhere. The question is whether that somewhere should be the
>> endpoint or
>>> the server. (Or, as you note below, on the end-consumer.)
>>=20
>>>> 2)  Similar to (1), a single collector does not necessarily need to =
be
>>>> able to translate every tag type it could possibly come across. =
This
>>>> might be because multiple collection methods are in use, a =
collector is
>>>> built for a single narrow function, etc.
>>> I think I agree, but I think I would phrase it differently. I would =
say
> that
>>> not all tags on an endpoint are necessarily of interest to the
> enterprise.
>>> Some types of tags might be generally unreliable in nature (e.g., a =
poor
>>> correlator with software presence), might not have the needed =
metadata
>> bout
>>> installed software products, or could be for software the enterprise
>> doesn't
>>> care about monitoring. In the first two cases, the presence of an
> alternate
>>> tag type from the same source (and covering the same products) could
>> render
>>> the second format completely unnecessary.
>>>=20
>>> Are we saying the same thing using different words here?
>>>=20
>>>> 3)  There is more than one consumer for the collected data.  It =
could
> be
>>>> for vulnerability analysis, license administration, inventory,
>>>> compliance, and so on.  Every current and future use for that
>>>> information would need to be able to parse every supported tag type =
in
>>>> order to do its function.  A considerable amount of duplication to =
say
>>>> the very least.  The same can be said for every other type of data
> being
>>>> collected from an endpoint.
>>> I think you are talking about a scenario where every end consumer of
> tags
>> is
>>> responsible for normalization. That is certainly yet another option
> (call it
>>> option 4), although I agree that it has the weaknesses you note =
here. I
>>> would argue that this is not equivalent to having normalization done =
on
> the
>>> Posture Validator, which is more what I was thinking of in my =
previous
>>> email.
>>>=20
>>> Given this discussion, it might be useful to recast our options =
based on
> who
>>> is responsible for data normalization.
>>>=20
>>> A) No normalization + data model. Posture Collectors collect and =
SWID
>> M&A
>>> transports only a defined set of tag types and formats. All tags =
that
> are
>>> not expressed in those formats are not collected and are ignored.
> (Former
>>> option 1)
>>> B) No normalization + no data model. Posture Collectors collect and =
SWID
>> M&A
>>> transports any type or format of tags. Tag consumers collecting tags
> from
>>> the CMDB/Posture Validator get whatever tags they can understand and
>> other
>>> types of tags are ignored.
>>> C) Posture Collector normalization. The Posture Collector is =
responsible
> for
>>> normalizing the tags collected on an endpoint prior to delivery to a
> Posture
>>> Validator. SWID M&A supports transmission of a defined set of tag =
types
>> and
>>> formats, to which the Posture Collector translates. (Option 3 from
> Gunnar's
>>> earlier email)
>>> D) Posture Validator normalization. Posture Collectors collect and =
SWID
>> M&A
>>> transports any type or format of tags. The receiving Posture =
Validator
> is
>>> responsible for normalizing the incoming data to a set of types and
> formats
>>> identified by SACM (but whose specification is outside the scope of =
SWID
>> M&A
>>> itself).
>>> E) Consumer normalization. Posture Collectors collect and SWID M&A
>>> transports any type or format of tags. Tags are stored on the =
Posture
>>> Validator or CMDB until a consumer needs them. The consumer then
>> collects
>>> the relevant tags and is responsible for translating any tags into a
> format
>>> it can consume. (Option 4 from this email)
>>>=20
>>> Gunnar, I believe you are an advocate of C, correct? I also think =
both
> of
>>> use agree that options B and E are probably bad ideas since the data
>>> consumers can have no idea as to what they are going to get. =
Personally,
> I
>>> think I'm more of a fan of D - it has a centralized rather than
> distributed
>>> normalization function and can avoid unnecessary data loss.
>>>=20
>>> Gunnar, have I misinterpreted any of your comments? Do others have =
any
>>> thoughts on this?
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> Charles
>>>=20
>=20


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From: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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Charles:  Yes, that's a decent restatement of what I have in mind.

Adam:  In line, I think, with what you are saying, the sooner the data 
is transformed into the common format the sooner in its lifecycle 
components can be created that make use of that data. Doing it at the 
endpoint (or a proxy acting on behalf of an endpoint) is as far out on 
that limb as you can get.

The drawback, however, is that the original tag information is not 
available, and that could represent a data loss -- or a lossy 
conversion, as Charles has been characterizing it.  I think there are 
ways around that, such as retaining enough information such that an 
interested party could go back and get the original tag, but the actual 
process of doing something like that would be outside of the scope of SACM.

And with that I'll linger a bit to see what others have to say.


--gun


On 6/1/2016 5:10 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
> To clarify, this isnâ€™t as much about tags as it is about the normalization of different tagging structures, correct?  In that case, I think that the normalization/translation should be happening on the endpoints or from within those contexts.
>
> So, information would go from context-specific format to normalized format for centralized needs (i.e. inventory assessment, reporting, what have you).  Then, if something needs to be done with that specific piece of software at the endpoint, we may need a way to get back from the normalized format to the context-specific format, or at least to reference that context-specific format distinctly.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>> On Jun 1, 2016, at 2:19 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gunnar,
>>
>> Thanks, as always, for the good insights. If I can paraphrase what I think I
>> am hearing: you are asserting that the use of certain tags is likely to be
>> context dependent. Specifically, certain types of tags will primarily be
>> used on certain OSs and/or on devices in a certain role. A centralized
>> normalization function needs to have translators for the tags of every
>> context in the enterprise. However, if translation is done on the endpoints
>> (i.e., within that very context that is producing the tags) those endpoints
>> only need to support the translators appropriate for their specific context.
>> Moreover, as new contexts are added to an enterprise, I think you are
>> arguing that it is more natural to account for the new varieties of tags
>> that could arise in those contexts locally (i.e., on the endpoint) rather
>> than updating a central server every time a new context is added.
>>
>> Do I have this correct? What are others' thoughts on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Charles
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:53 PM
>>> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; Adam Montville
>>> <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
>>>
>>>
>>> The reality is that not all tagging formats are going to be implemented
>>> on the first iteration and new ones will be devised and revisions made
>>> to the existing ones.
>>>
>>> Depending on the vendor, the most likely outcome is that only a few of
>>> the most common tagging systems will ever be implemented and if your
>>> enterprise uses any others you are just out of luck -- unless you do
>>> some in-house work or some other vendor is willing to invest the time
>>> and effort into supporting the less common tag types.
>>>
>>> If the normalization is done centrally by the Validator
>>>
>>> If the normalization is done centrally by the Validator then the
>>> Validators (and every other consumer) needs to support all tag types
>>> right from the start, keep updating as the various tag formats change,
>>> and be done thus by every vendor.
>>>
>>> Which, I can guarantee, won't happen.  And even if it did, the develop
>>> and release cycle on large systems is typically 1 to 2 years, which is
>>> just too large a gap in this space.
>>>
>>> I also don't expect collectors to implement all tag types.  Even
>>> accounting for the obvious omissions -- a Windows agent wouldn't be
>>> expected to have any awareness of tagging specific to OSX, HP-UX,
>>> Android, etc,  -- I think we can count on agents having incomplete
>>> coverage.  In fact, I think we should plan on that being the case.
>>>
>>> But if the collector does the translation to a standardized format, then
>>> that data is available for any SACM usage immediately with no need for
>>> updates to any other part of the SACM environment.  In the worst case I
>>> would have my own IT department develop something to fill in the gaps,
>>> and the only part they would need to worry about is the tag
>>> collector-to-common-DM for that specific tag type.
>>>
>>> The downside is that I may need to install and maintain multiple agents
>>> on some systems, but the most likely case is that that kind of
>>> customization will only be necessary to cover systems that otherwise
>>> wouldn't be covered at all.
>>>
>>> So, yeah, your option (C) is what I would go with with (E) being the
>>> most palatable of any of the other options.
>>>
>>>
>>> --gun
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/31/2016 10:52 AM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
>>>> Hi Gunnar,
>>>>
>>>> Comments below:
>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) Tag information intended for use in a SACM environment is
>>> translated
>>>>>>> into a common standard data format prior to delivery from the
>>>>>>> collector.  This will still create some limitation on the number of
>>>>>>> formats supportable within a SACM environment since it is reliant on
>>>> the
>>>>>>> collector being able to do that translation, but any data that does
>>>>>>> enter the SACM sphere will be usable.
>>>>>> To me, this doesn't seem
>>>>>> different from the earlier concerns about the Posture Collector
>>>> receiving
>>>>>> data it cannot parse.
>>>>> Well, no, it's not commensurate, for at least three reasons:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)  The tag types that need to be known to a collector is a subset of
>>>>> all tag types, since a collector runs on a particular type of system.
>> A
>>>>> Windows agent would not be expected to be able to handle OSX-specific
>>>>> tag types.
>>>> True - I clearly overstated the burden on individual endpoints, so thank
>> you
>>>> for the correction.
>>>>
>>>> That said, from an enterprise perspective I would think the set of
>>>> translators would be constant regardless of whether translation occurred
>>> on
>>>> endpoints or servers. If one endpoint has tags of interest that are not
>> one
>>>> of the specified SACM forms, the appropriate translator needs to be
>>>> somewhere. The question is whether that somewhere should be the
>>> endpoint or
>>>> the server. (Or, as you note below, on the end-consumer.)
>>>>> 2)  Similar to (1), a single collector does not necessarily need to be
>>>>> able to translate every tag type it could possibly come across. This
>>>>> might be because multiple collection methods are in use, a collector is
>>>>> built for a single narrow function, etc.
>>>> I think I agree, but I think I would phrase it differently. I would say
>> that
>>>> not all tags on an endpoint are necessarily of interest to the
>> enterprise.
>>>> Some types of tags might be generally unreliable in nature (e.g., a poor
>>>> correlator with software presence), might not have the needed metadata
>>> bout
>>>> installed software products, or could be for software the enterprise
>>> doesn't
>>>> care about monitoring. In the first two cases, the presence of an
>> alternate
>>>> tag type from the same source (and covering the same products) could
>>> render
>>>> the second format completely unnecessary.
>>>>
>>>> Are we saying the same thing using different words here?
>>>>
>>>>> 3)  There is more than one consumer for the collected data.  It could
>> be
>>>>> for vulnerability analysis, license administration, inventory,
>>>>> compliance, and so on.  Every current and future use for that
>>>>> information would need to be able to parse every supported tag type in
>>>>> order to do its function.  A considerable amount of duplication to say
>>>>> the very least.  The same can be said for every other type of data
>> being
>>>>> collected from an endpoint.
>>>> I think you are talking about a scenario where every end consumer of
>> tags
>>> is
>>>> responsible for normalization. That is certainly yet another option
>> (call it
>>>> option 4), although I agree that it has the weaknesses you note here. I
>>>> would argue that this is not equivalent to having normalization done on
>> the
>>>> Posture Validator, which is more what I was thinking of in my previous
>>>> email.
>>>>
>>>> Given this discussion, it might be useful to recast our options based on
>> who
>>>> is responsible for data normalization.
>>>>
>>>> A) No normalization + data model. Posture Collectors collect and SWID
>>> M&A
>>>> transports only a defined set of tag types and formats. All tags that
>> are
>>>> not expressed in those formats are not collected and are ignored.
>> (Former
>>>> option 1)
>>>> B) No normalization + no data model. Posture Collectors collect and SWID
>>> M&A
>>>> transports any type or format of tags. Tag consumers collecting tags
>> from
>>>> the CMDB/Posture Validator get whatever tags they can understand and
>>> other
>>>> types of tags are ignored.
>>>> C) Posture Collector normalization. The Posture Collector is responsible
>> for
>>>> normalizing the tags collected on an endpoint prior to delivery to a
>> Posture
>>>> Validator. SWID M&A supports transmission of a defined set of tag types
>>> and
>>>> formats, to which the Posture Collector translates. (Option 3 from
>> Gunnar's
>>>> earlier email)
>>>> D) Posture Validator normalization. Posture Collectors collect and SWID
>>> M&A
>>>> transports any type or format of tags. The receiving Posture Validator
>> is
>>>> responsible for normalizing the incoming data to a set of types and
>> formats
>>>> identified by SACM (but whose specification is outside the scope of SWID
>>> M&A
>>>> itself).
>>>> E) Consumer normalization. Posture Collectors collect and SWID M&A
>>>> transports any type or format of tags. Tags are stored on the Posture
>>>> Validator or CMDB until a consumer needs them. The consumer then
>>> collects
>>>> the relevant tags and is responsible for translating any tags into a
>> format
>>>> it can consume. (Option 4 from this email)
>>>>
>>>> Gunnar, I believe you are an advocate of C, correct? I also think both
>> of
>>>> use agree that options B and E are probably bad ideas since the data
>>>> consumers can have no idea as to what they are going to get. Personally,
>> I
>>>> think I'm more of a fan of D - it has a centralized rather than
>> distributed
>>>> normalization function and can avoid unnecessary data loss.
>>>>
>>>> Gunnar, have I misinterpreted any of your comments? Do others have any
>>>> thoughts on this?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Charles
>>>>


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Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
To: Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>, Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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From: Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>
To: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" <david.waltermire@nist.gov>, Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Some technical details for SWID M&A proposals
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Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
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Hello all,

some comments on the current definition of terms:

1) Supplemental Collection task: looks like a good way to move forward

Does this propose to define a separate collection task that focuses on 
on the acquisition of previously obtained endpoint attributes from a 
repository in the SACM domain? The endpoint attributes could be 
identical to the ones that can be acquired via the already defined 
collection task, but most certainly do not have to be! I would propose 
to "handle" the endpoint attributes in an identical way and to annotate 
where they come from, when they were acquired and similar metadata.

As a result, this could enable a single method to conduct both tasks and 
simply things, I think.

2) Vulnerability assessment: the proposed definition sounds fine

The current definition of Endpoint Assessment is: "Evaluate the actual 
values of the endpoint attributes against those expressed in the policy. 
(An evaluation result may become additional endpoint data)."

Implied - but yet not explicitly defined - in the definition of Endpoint 
Assessment is that it is a concatenated sequence of tasks defined by 
SACM. (Software) vulnerability assessment would be a specialization of 
that composition of tasks.

Background: i.e., the vulnerability assessment would process a sub-set 
of endpoint attributes that can be acquired by the:

- collection task (which is directly targeted at specific target 
endpoints) and the
- target endpoint discovery task (which is supposed to be acquiring any 
kind indicator information (i.e. also endpoint attributes) that can be 
used to detect and re-detect target endpoints in a SACM domain) as a 
basis for the collection task.


3) Endpoint management capability: seems to be a little bit vague, 
still. Especially the term "management".

This description seems to be more about a repository of expected 
(should) or possible (could) states that are based on configuration? Is 
an endpoint management capability (and its corresponding functions) also 
providing guidance(instructions)?


4) Vulnerability management capability: Here too, the term management 
seems to imply guidance (or management decision) of some sort.

The definition itself seems to describe a repository or a meta directory 
that provides information acquired, for example, by ROLIE?


5) Management Capability:

It should be made very clear what this capability actually provides; 
i.e., which category of endpoint attributes and/or guidance. This would 
resolve most of the ambiguity in a simple way, I think. Essential 
information elements of the content should also be included in the SACM 
IM, I think.


6) Endpoint Management Capability and Vulnerability Management Capability:

It seems - taking into account 2-4 - that Vulnerability Management 
Capability is a part of Endpoint Management Capability?


7) process & workflow:

A workflow might involve multiple processes with various dependences and 
interconnections, I think. But I am not sure if that distinction is 
really relevant to SACM. Workflow seems to be the more general term and 
is less overloaded.


Viele Grüße,

Henk





On 05/31/2016 10:41 PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:
> Did anyone else have any thoughts on this particular issue?
>
> If we want to take the approach of promoting a few terms as Adam has
> suggested, we might want do it as follows.
>
> Supplemental (previously targeted) collection: The task of collecting
> specific endpoint information from the target endpoint, that is not
> available from the endpoint management capability, in order to make a
> determination about that endpoint (vulnerability status, identification,
> etc.).
>
> This seems general enough to be promoted as-is.
>
> Vulnerability assessment: The process of determining whether a set of
> endpoints is vulnerable according to the information contained in the
> vulnerability description information.
>
> We would need to generalize it more to remove the reference to
> “vulnerability description information”. One approach might be to
> replace “vulnerability description information” with “information
> pertaining to the existence of a flaw or flaws in software, hardware,
> and/or firmware on an endpoint.”  It might also make sense to highlight
> this as a specialization of “assessment”.  As a side note, does anyone
> see a distinction between process and workflow (as described here
> http://blog.goodelearning.com/bpmn/business-process-vs-workflow/) and
> that assessment might be better described as a workflow? With that said,
> our definition comes from RFC5209 and we may not want to make any
> changes which is perfectly fine – just something to think about :).
>
> Endpoint management capability:  An enterprise IT capability managing
> endpoint identity, endpoint information, and associated metadata on an
> ongoing basis.
>
> Vulnerability management capability:  An enterprise IT capability
> managing endpoint vulnerabilities and associated metadata on an ongoing
> basis by ingesting vulnerability description information and
> vulnerability detection data, and performing a vulnerability assessment.
>
> Right now, we have definitions for “endpoint management capability” and
> “vulnerability management capability”. To support promoting these, we
> may want to create a more general “management capability” term and then
> include “endpoint management capability” and “vulnerability management
> capability” as specializations of that term.  A definition of
> “management capability” might read something like “An enterprise IT
> capability responsible for managing specific information about an
> endpoint in support of continuous monitoring processes which may or may
> not be driven by guidance”.
>
> Anyways, this is just a little bit more to think about :).  Let me know
> what you think.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> *From:*sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Haynes, Dan
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2016 7:43 AM
> *To:* Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
> Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
>
> Do others have thoughts regarding whether or not terminology from the
> vulnerability assessment scenario draft should be promoted ot the
> Terminology I-D?  If so, which terms make sense to promote?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> *From:*Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:04 PM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
> Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
>
> I’ll echo my statements from the virtual interim by pointing out that
> the vulnerability scenario, while narrowing our focus, does not change
> the scope of our charter.  From that perspective, I would like to see
> terms “promoted” into the terminology draft sooner rather than later.
>   Of the set of terms Danny described, I think endpoint management
> capability and targeted collection are prime candidates for such
> promotion.  I also believe that vulnerability management capability and
> vulnerability assessment are suitable for promotion. Vulnerability
> description information and vulnerability detection data could stay
> within the vulnerability draft.
>
> Adam
>
>     On May 17, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
>     <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
>
>     During today’s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various open
>     issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as
>     a result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
>     here [2][3].  The slide’s from today’s meeting can be found here [4].
>
>     The first issue was whether or not the following terms from Section
>     2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario should be pulled into the
>     Terminology I-D [5] with the expectation that any terms pulled in
>     will be used outside of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario.
>
>     •Vulnerability description information
>
>     •Vulnerability detection data
>
>     •Endpoint management capability
>
>     •Vulnerability management capability
>
>     •Vulnerability assessment
>
>     •Targeted collection
>
>     During the meeting, there were concerns that while some of these
>     terms leverage general terms already in the Terminology I-D, they
>     use them in specific ways with respect to the Vulnerability
>     Assessment Scenario.  It was also noted that some terms like
>     “endpoint management capability” and “vulnerability management
>     capability”, while specific, have the potential to become broader as
>     SACM eventually expands into other areas (e.g. configuration,
>     etc.).  As a result, the consensus on the call was to leave the
>     terms in Section 2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario, for
>     now, with the expectation that we may reassess this decision in the
>     future.
>
>     If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by
>     May 31^st .  We are planning to have an updated version of the
>     scenario for June 8^th .
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Danny
>
>     [1]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
>
>     [2]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
>
>     [3]https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
>
>     [4]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/(looks
>     like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they
>     should be soon)
>
>     [5]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     sacm mailing list
>     sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>


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Hi,

while I do understand use and reference to rfc4949, etc. I don't see
it as an efficient strategic approach while it is not really aligned
with Frameworks used in real life.

Organis/zations would tend to use NIST Risk Management Framework or ISO 270=
01.

An approach like:
NIST Cybersecurity Framework
NIST Risk Management Framework
NIST SP 800-53
...
would benefit from a consolidated centralized (if not Ontology)
Lexicon/Glossary such as
https://niccs.us-cert.gov/glossary
at least for general terms.

Vulnerability Assessment and Management

Definition: In the NICE Workforce Framework, cybersecurity work where
a person: Conducts assessments of threats and vulnerabilities,
determines deviations from acceptable configurations, enterprise or
local policy, assesses the level of risk, and develops and/or
recommends appropriate mitigation countermeasures in operational and
non-operational situations.

From: NICE Workforce Framework

Vulnerability Assessment (NIST SP 800-53A Rev 4)
[CNSSI 4009, Adapted]
Systematic examination of an information system or product to
determine the adequacy of security and privacy measures, identify
security and privacy
deficiencies, provide data from which to predict the effectiveness of
proposed security and privacy measures, and confirm the adequacy of
such measures after implementation.

Then, it could be used "In the context of SACM, " or "Within SACM the
use of the term is expanded", etc.


So I would be in favor of having all terms in Terminology I-D




2016-06-03 22:15 GMT+03:00 Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>:
> Hello all,
>
> some comments on the current definition of terms:
>
> 1) Supplemental Collection task: looks like a good way to move forward
>
> Does this propose to define a separate collection task that focuses on on
> the acquisition of previously obtained endpoint attributes from a reposit=
ory
> in the SACM domain? The endpoint attributes could be identical to the one=
s
> that can be acquired via the already defined collection task, but most
> certainly do not have to be! I would propose to "handle" the endpoint
> attributes in an identical way and to annotate where they come from, when
> they were acquired and similar metadata.
>
> As a result, this could enable a single method to conduct both tasks and
> simply things, I think.
>
> 2) Vulnerability assessment: the proposed definition sounds fine
>
> The current definition of Endpoint Assessment is: "Evaluate the actual
> values of the endpoint attributes against those expressed in the policy. =
(An
> evaluation result may become additional endpoint data)."
>
> Implied - but yet not explicitly defined - in the definition of Endpoint
> Assessment is that it is a concatenated sequence of tasks defined by SACM=
.
> (Software) vulnerability assessment would be a specialization of that
> composition of tasks.
>
> Background: i.e., the vulnerability assessment would process a sub-set of
> endpoint attributes that can be acquired by the:
>
> - collection task (which is directly targeted at specific target endpoint=
s)
> and the
> - target endpoint discovery task (which is supposed to be acquiring any k=
ind
> indicator information (i.e. also endpoint attributes) that can be used to
> detect and re-detect target endpoints in a SACM domain) as a basis for th=
e
> collection task.
>
>
> 3) Endpoint management capability: seems to be a little bit vague, still.
> Especially the term "management".
>
> This description seems to be more about a repository of expected (should)=
 or
> possible (could) states that are based on configuration? Is an endpoint
> management capability (and its corresponding functions) also providing
> guidance(instructions)?
>
>
> 4) Vulnerability management capability: Here too, the term management see=
ms
> to imply guidance (or management decision) of some sort.
>
> The definition itself seems to describe a repository or a meta directory
> that provides information acquired, for example, by ROLIE?
>
>
> 5) Management Capability:
>
> It should be made very clear what this capability actually provides; i.e.=
,
> which category of endpoint attributes and/or guidance. This would resolve
> most of the ambiguity in a simple way, I think. Essential information
> elements of the content should also be included in the SACM IM, I think.
>
>
> 6) Endpoint Management Capability and Vulnerability Management Capability=
:
>
> It seems - taking into account 2-4 - that Vulnerability Management
> Capability is a part of Endpoint Management Capability?
>
>
> 7) process & workflow:
>
> A workflow might involve multiple processes with various dependences and
> interconnections, I think. But I am not sure if that distinction is reall=
y
> relevant to SACM. Workflow seems to be the more general term and is less
> overloaded.
>
>
> Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,
>
> Henk
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/31/2016 10:41 PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:
>>
>> Did anyone else have any thoughts on this particular issue?
>>
>> If we want to take the approach of promoting a few terms as Adam has
>> suggested, we might want do it as follows.
>>
>> Supplemental (previously targeted) collection: The task of collecting
>> specific endpoint information from the target endpoint, that is not
>> available from the endpoint management capability, in order to make a
>> determination about that endpoint (vulnerability status, identification,
>> etc.).
>>
>> This seems general enough to be promoted as-is.
>>
>> Vulnerability assessment: The process of determining whether a set of
>> endpoints is vulnerable according to the information contained in the
>> vulnerability description information.
>>
>> We would need to generalize it more to remove the reference to
>> =E2=80=9Cvulnerability description information=E2=80=9D. One approach mi=
ght be to
>> replace =E2=80=9Cvulnerability description information=E2=80=9D with =E2=
=80=9Cinformation
>> pertaining to the existence of a flaw or flaws in software, hardware,
>> and/or firmware on an endpoint.=E2=80=9D  It might also make sense to hi=
ghlight
>> this as a specialization of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D.  As a side not=
e, does anyone
>> see a distinction between process and workflow (as described here
>> http://blog.goodelearning.com/bpmn/business-process-vs-workflow/) and
>> that assessment might be better described as a workflow? With that said,
>> our definition comes from RFC5209 and we may not want to make any
>> changes which is perfectly fine =E2=80=93 just something to think about =
:).
>>
>> Endpoint management capability:  An enterprise IT capability managing
>> endpoint identity, endpoint information, and associated metadata on an
>> ongoing basis.
>>
>> Vulnerability management capability:  An enterprise IT capability
>> managing endpoint vulnerabilities and associated metadata on an ongoing
>> basis by ingesting vulnerability description information and
>> vulnerability detection data, and performing a vulnerability assessment.
>>
>> Right now, we have definitions for =E2=80=9Cendpoint management capabili=
ty=E2=80=9D and
>> =E2=80=9Cvulnerability management capability=E2=80=9D. To support promot=
ing these, we
>> may want to create a more general =E2=80=9Cmanagement capability=E2=80=
=9D term and then
>> include =E2=80=9Cendpoint management capability=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cvu=
lnerability management
>> capability=E2=80=9D as specializations of that term.  A definition of
>> =E2=80=9Cmanagement capability=E2=80=9D might read something like =E2=80=
=9CAn enterprise IT
>> capability responsible for managing specific information about an
>> endpoint in support of continuous monitoring processes which may or may
>> not be driven by guidance=E2=80=9D.
>>
>> Anyways, this is just a little bit more to think about :).  Let me know
>> what you think.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> *From:*sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Haynes, Dan
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2016 7:43 AM
>> *To:* Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>> Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
>>
>> Do others have thoughts regarding whether or not terminology from the
>> vulnerability assessment scenario draft should be promoted ot the
>> Terminology I-D?  If so, which terms make sense to promote?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> *From:*Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:04 PM
>> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>
>> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>> Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
>>
>> I=E2=80=99ll echo my statements from the virtual interim by pointing out=
 that
>> the vulnerability scenario, while narrowing our focus, does not change
>> the scope of our charter.  From that perspective, I would like to see
>> terms =E2=80=9Cpromoted=E2=80=9D into the terminology draft sooner rathe=
r than later.
>>   Of the set of terms Danny described, I think endpoint management
>> capability and targeted collection are prime candidates for such
>> promotion.  I also believe that vulnerability management capability and
>> vulnerability assessment are suitable for promotion. Vulnerability
>> description information and vulnerability detection data could stay
>> within the vulnerability draft.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>     On May 17, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
>>     <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     During today=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various=
 open
>>     issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as
>>     a result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
>>     here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from today=E2=80=99s meeting can b=
e found here [4].
>>
>>     The first issue was whether or not the following terms from Section
>>     2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario should be pulled into the
>>     Terminology I-D [5] with the expectation that any terms pulled in
>>     will be used outside of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario.
>>
>>     =E2=80=A2Vulnerability description information
>>
>>     =E2=80=A2Vulnerability detection data
>>
>>     =E2=80=A2Endpoint management capability
>>
>>     =E2=80=A2Vulnerability management capability
>>
>>     =E2=80=A2Vulnerability assessment
>>
>>     =E2=80=A2Targeted collection
>>
>>     During the meeting, there were concerns that while some of these
>>     terms leverage general terms already in the Terminology I-D, they
>>     use them in specific ways with respect to the Vulnerability
>>     Assessment Scenario.  It was also noted that some terms like
>>     =E2=80=9Cendpoint management capability=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cvulner=
ability management
>>     capability=E2=80=9D, while specific, have the potential to become br=
oader as
>>     SACM eventually expands into other areas (e.g. configuration,
>>     etc.).  As a result, the consensus on the call was to leave the
>>     terms in Section 2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario, for
>>     now, with the expectation that we may reassess this decision in the
>>     future.
>>
>>     If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by
>>     May 31^st .  We are planning to have an updated version of the
>>     scenario for June 8^th .
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     Danny
>>
>>     [1]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
>>
>>     [2]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
>>
>>     [3]https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
>>
>>
>> [4]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/(looks
>>     like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they
>>     should be soon)
>>
>>     [5]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     sacm mailing list
>>     sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that
"the information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
information":
I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would
have to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability
assessment capability (what would the vulnerability assessment
capability do with 'unknown' additional information)

So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
something like "the updated information"



2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
> During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various =
open issues
> with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a result of
> feedback that we received on the draft which you can see here [2][3].  Th=
e
> slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here [4].
>
>
>
> One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we ran =
out of time
> was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the ability to p=
ush
> supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability assessment
> capability.  This question came out of a review of the following text fro=
m
> the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario (specifically the last sentence).
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine an e=
ndpoint=E2=80=99s
> vulnerability status will have been previously
>
> collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
>
> endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository and a
> targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
>
> an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to enab=
le
> operators to perform targeted collection under
>
> certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be provided b=
y
> the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
>
> may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection of
> endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
>
> assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerability
> assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
>
> scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
>
> management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
> capability by the endpoint whenever that information
>
> changes.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the endpoint
> management capability to the vulnerability assessment capability is actua=
lly
> possible because it would not necessarily know what information it needs =
to
> push prior to the server requesting it (in which case it is probably
> considered a pull)?  Is there a situation where the endpoint would know, =
in
> advance, what additional information is needed for an assessment without =
a
> server requesting it?
>
>
>
> If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May 31=
st.
> We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June 8th.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
>
> [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
>
> [3] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
>
> [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/ (looks
> like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they should be
> soon)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>


From nobody Fri Jun  3 23:58:14 2016
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From: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 09:58:10 +0300
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To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Changing the IM "Object" Construct to "Subject"
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IMHO I'm afraid not.
Where Subject is coming from? (is that aligned with IETF terminology,
an RFC...?)
It's adding complexity/confusion for me while for example not aligning
anymore with NIST SP 800-53A



2016-05-31 19:58 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
> Hi Jerome,
>
> Using our new terms:
>
>   Subject: unique name and one or more Subjects and/or Attributes
>   Attribute: unique name and value
>
> I think it would map as follows to subject-predicate-object.
>
>   subject: Subject
>   predicate: always a "has-a" relationship
>   object: Subject/Attribute
>
> Does this help clarify things?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:17 AM
>> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Changing the IM "Object" Construct to "Subject"
>>
>> Yes and No
>> While the wording is better, it seems there is still semantic confusion
>> regarding triples subject(-predicate-)object
>>
>> 2016-05-20 2:23 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>> > At IETF 95, there was an informal SACM working session after the first
>> > SACM session [1].  During the meeting, it was proposed that we change
>> > the name of the IM construct =E2=80=9CObject=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CSubj=
ect=E2=80=9D.  The definitions
>> > effectively remain the same although worded differently:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     Object: Objects are the mechanism by which attributes (Section
>> > 3.1) and/or other objects can be logically grouped together to create
>> > more complex models.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     Subject: A subject is a richer structure that has a unique subject
>> > name and one or more attributes or subjects.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyways, during the virtual interim meeting on Tuesday, I realized
>> > that I forgot to bring this proposed change to the list for broader
>> > consensus.  As a result, I wanted to do that now as part of the IM upd=
ates.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Please let me know if you have any objections or concerns with this
>> > change by May 25th.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Danny
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03907.html
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > sacm mailing list
>> > sacm@ietf.org
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>> >


From nobody Mon Jun  6 05:22:39 2016
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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
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A bunch of comments inline, as contributor.

> On Jun 3, 2016, at 2:15 PM, Henk Birkholz =
<henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
>=20
> Hello all,
>=20
> some comments on the current definition of terms:
>=20
> 1) Supplemental Collection task: looks like a good way to move forward
>=20
> Does this propose to define a separate collection task that focuses on =
on the acquisition of previously obtained endpoint attributes from a =
repository in the SACM domain? The endpoint attributes could be =
identical to the ones that can be acquired via the already defined =
collection task, but most certainly do not have to be! I would propose =
to "handle" the endpoint attributes in an identical way and to annotate =
where they come from, when they were acquired and similar metadata.
>=20
> As a result, this could enable a single method to conduct both tasks =
and simply things, I think.
>=20
> 2) Vulnerability assessment: the proposed definition sounds fine
>=20
> The current definition of Endpoint Assessment is: "Evaluate the actual =
values of the endpoint attributes against those expressed in the policy. =
(An evaluation result may become additional endpoint data)."
>=20
> Implied - but yet not explicitly defined - in the definition of =
Endpoint Assessment is that it is a concatenated sequence of tasks =
defined by SACM. (Software) vulnerability assessment would be a =
specialization of that composition of tasks.
>=20
> Background: i.e., the vulnerability assessment would process a sub-set =
of endpoint attributes that can be acquired by the:
>=20
> - collection task (which is directly targeted at specific target =
endpoints) and the
> - target endpoint discovery task (which is supposed to be acquiring =
any kind indicator information (i.e. also endpoint attributes) that can =
be used to detect and re-detect target endpoints in a SACM domain) as a =
basis for the collection task.
>=20
>=20
> 3) Endpoint management capability: seems to be a little bit vague, =
still. Especially the term "management".
>=20
> This description seems to be more about a repository of expected =
(should) or possible (could) states that are based on configuration? Is =
an endpoint management capability (and its corresponding functions) also =
providing guidance(instructions)?


=93Endpoint management=94 is not something we are likely to get into, =
but it=92s one way to talk about the processes and workflows used by a =
given enterprise to manage their endpoints.  We=92re getting into the =
more abstract layers of a security program that are generally governed =
by chosen or required control frameworks, and it is important that we =
have continuity from that level to the level at which SACM operates.


>=20
>=20
> 4) Vulnerability management capability: Here too, the term management =
seems to imply guidance (or management decision) of some sort.
>=20
> The definition itself seems to describe a repository or a meta =
directory that provides information acquired, for example, by ROLIE?

The same things I said for =93endpoint management=94 apply for =
=93vulnerability management=94.  The definition may describe a =
repository or meta directory, but those things are facets to =
vulnerability management and provide vulnerability management =
capabilities=97the things that are likely required by the processes and =
workflows derived from control frameworks.

>=20
>=20
> 5) Management Capability:
>=20
> It should be made very clear what this capability actually provides; =
i.e., which category of endpoint attributes and/or guidance. This would =
resolve most of the ambiguity in a simple way, I think. Essential =
information elements of the content should also be included in the SACM =
IM, I think.

This is an abstract term from which specializations can be derived, and =
I believe the specialization is where we can be very clear.  We should =
be able tot describe, however, that a =93management capability=94 in the =
context of SACM is one that derives from the level of a control =
framework.

>=20
>=20
> 6) Endpoint Management Capability and Vulnerability Management =
Capability:
>=20
> It seems - taking into account 2-4 - that Vulnerability Management =
Capability is a part of Endpoint Management Capability?

I would say no.  Endpoint management capability is part of asset =
management capability.  Vulnerability management capability will =
certainly rely upon endpoint management capabilities, but I would not =
view it as part of endpoint management, coming at this from a control =
framework perspective.  Most frameworks will say things like, "manage =
your endpoints so you know where everything is and what you have=94, and =
then say things like, =93for all your endpoints, make sure you=92re =
addressing vulnerabilities=94.

>=20
>=20
> 7) process & workflow:
>=20
> A workflow might involve multiple processes with various dependences =
and interconnections, I think. But I am not sure if that distinction is =
really relevant to SACM. Workflow seems to be the more general term and =
is less overloaded.

I am partial to the term =93workflow=94 over =93process=94.

>=20
>=20
> Viele Gr=FC=DFe,
>=20
> Henk
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 05/31/2016 10:41 PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:
>> Did anyone else have any thoughts on this particular issue?
>>=20
>> If we want to take the approach of promoting a few terms as Adam has
>> suggested, we might want do it as follows.
>>=20
>> Supplemental (previously targeted) collection: The task of collecting
>> specific endpoint information from the target endpoint, that is not
>> available from the endpoint management capability, in order to make a
>> determination about that endpoint (vulnerability status, =
identification,
>> etc.).
>>=20
>> This seems general enough to be promoted as-is.
>>=20
>> Vulnerability assessment: The process of determining whether a set of
>> endpoints is vulnerable according to the information contained in the
>> vulnerability description information.
>>=20
>> We would need to generalize it more to remove the reference to
>> =93vulnerability description information=94. One approach might be to
>> replace =93vulnerability description information=94 with =93information=

>> pertaining to the existence of a flaw or flaws in software, hardware,
>> and/or firmware on an endpoint.=94  It might also make sense to =
highlight
>> this as a specialization of =93assessment=94.  As a side note, does =
anyone
>> see a distinction between process and workflow (as described here
>> http://blog.goodelearning.com/bpmn/business-process-vs-workflow/) and
>> that assessment might be better described as a workflow? With that =
said,
>> our definition comes from RFC5209 and we may not want to make any
>> changes which is perfectly fine =96 just something to think about :).
>>=20
>> Endpoint management capability:  An enterprise IT capability managing
>> endpoint identity, endpoint information, and associated metadata on =
an
>> ongoing basis.
>>=20
>> Vulnerability management capability:  An enterprise IT capability
>> managing endpoint vulnerabilities and associated metadata on an =
ongoing
>> basis by ingesting vulnerability description information and
>> vulnerability detection data, and performing a vulnerability =
assessment.
>>=20
>> Right now, we have definitions for =93endpoint management capability=94=
 and
>> =93vulnerability management capability=94. To support promoting =
these, we
>> may want to create a more general =93management capability=94 term =
and then
>> include =93endpoint management capability=94 and =93vulnerability =
management
>> capability=94 as specializations of that term.  A definition of
>> =93management capability=94 might read something like =93An =
enterprise IT
>> capability responsible for managing specific information about an
>> endpoint in support of continuous monitoring processes which may or =
may
>> not be driven by guidance=94.
>>=20
>> Anyways, this is just a little bit more to think about :).  Let me =
know
>> what you think.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Danny
>>=20
>> *From:*sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Haynes, Dan
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2016 7:43 AM
>> *To:* Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>> Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
>>=20
>> Do others have thoughts regarding whether or not terminology from the
>> vulnerability assessment scenario draft should be promoted ot the
>> Terminology I-D?  If so, which terms make sense to promote?
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Danny
>>=20
>> *From:*Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:04 PM
>> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org> =
<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>>
>> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org> <mailto:sacm@ietf.org =
<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>> Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
>>=20
>> I=92ll echo my statements from the virtual interim by pointing out =
that
>> the vulnerability scenario, while narrowing our focus, does not =
change
>> the scope of our charter.  =46rom that perspective, I would like to =
see
>> terms =93promoted=94 into the terminology draft sooner rather than =
later.
>>  Of the set of terms Danny described, I think endpoint management
>> capability and targeted collection are prime candidates for such
>> promotion.  I also believe that vulnerability management capability =
and
>> vulnerability assessment are suitable for promotion. Vulnerability
>> description information and vulnerability detection data could stay
>> within the vulnerability draft.
>>=20
>> Adam
>>=20
>>    On May 17, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org =
<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>
>>    <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>> wrote:
>>=20
>>    During today=92s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various =
open
>>    issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] =
as
>>    a result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can =
see
>>    here [2][3].  The slide=92s from today=92s meeting can be found =
here [4].
>>=20
>>    The first issue was whether or not the following terms from =
Section
>>    2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario should be pulled into =
the
>>    Terminology I-D [5] with the expectation that any terms pulled in
>>    will be used outside of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario.
>>=20
>>    =95Vulnerability description information
>>=20
>>    =95Vulnerability detection data
>>=20
>>    =95Endpoint management capability
>>=20
>>    =95Vulnerability management capability
>>=20
>>    =95Vulnerability assessment
>>=20
>>    =95Targeted collection
>>=20
>>    During the meeting, there were concerns that while some of these
>>    terms leverage general terms already in the Terminology I-D, they
>>    use them in specific ways with respect to the Vulnerability
>>    Assessment Scenario.  It was also noted that some terms like
>>    =93endpoint management capability=94 and =93vulnerability =
management
>>    capability=94, while specific, have the potential to become =
broader as
>>    SACM eventually expands into other areas (e.g. configuration,
>>    etc.).  As a result, the consensus on the call was to leave the
>>    terms in Section 2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario, for
>>    now, with the expectation that we may reassess this decision in =
the
>>    future.
>>=20
>>    If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by
>>    May 31^st .  We are planning to have an updated version of the
>>    scenario for June 8^th .
>>=20
>>    Thanks,
>>=20
>>    Danny
>>=20
>>    =
[1]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/>
>>=20
>>    [2]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3 =
<https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3>
>>=20
>>    =
[3]https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html>
>>=20
>>    [4]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/>(looks
>>    like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they
>>    should be soon)
>>=20
>>    [5]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/>
>>=20
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    sacm mailing list
>>    sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org> <mailto:sacm@ietf.org =
<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>
>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>

--Apple-Mail=_54A3AD22-6588-495F-B337-778840D1BB1E
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">A bunch of comments inline, as =
contributor.</div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 3, 2016, at 2:15 PM, Henk Birkholz =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de" =
class=3D"">henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Hello all,</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">some comments on the current definition of =
terms:</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">1) Supplemental =
Collection task: looks like a good way to move forward</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Does this propose to define a separate =
collection task that focuses on on the acquisition of previously =
obtained endpoint attributes from a repository in the SACM domain? The =
endpoint attributes could be identical to the ones that can be acquired =
via the already defined collection task, but most certainly do not have =
to be! I would propose to "handle" the endpoint attributes in an =
identical way and to annotate where they come from, when they were =
acquired and similar metadata.</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">As a result, this could enable a single method =
to conduct both tasks and simply things, I think.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">2) Vulnerability assessment: the proposed =
definition sounds fine</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">The current definition of Endpoint Assessment =
is: "Evaluate the actual values of the endpoint attributes against those =
expressed in the policy. (An evaluation result may become additional =
endpoint data)."</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Implied - but yet =
not explicitly defined - in the definition of Endpoint Assessment is =
that it is a concatenated sequence of tasks defined by SACM. (Software) =
vulnerability assessment would be a specialization of that composition =
of tasks.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Background: i.e., =
the vulnerability assessment would process a sub-set of endpoint =
attributes that can be acquired by the:</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">- collection task (which is directly targeted at =
specific target endpoints) and the</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">- target endpoint discovery task (which =
is supposed to be acquiring any kind indicator information (i.e. also =
endpoint attributes) that can be used to detect and re-detect target =
endpoints in a SACM domain) as a basis for the collection =
task.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">3) Endpoint management capability: seems =
to be a little bit vague, still. Especially the term =
"management".</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">This description =
seems to be more about a repository of expected (should) or possible =
(could) states that are based on configuration? Is an endpoint =
management capability (and its corresponding functions) also providing =
guidance(instructions)?</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>=93Endpoint management=94 is not something we are =
likely to get into, but it=92s one way to talk about the processes and =
workflows used by a given enterprise to manage their endpoints. =
&nbsp;We=92re getting into the more abstract layers of a security =
program that are generally governed by chosen or required control =
frameworks, and it is important that we have continuity from that level =
to the level at which SACM operates.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">4) Vulnerability management capability: =
Here too, the term management seems to imply guidance (or management =
decision) of some sort.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">The definition itself seems to describe a =
repository or a meta directory that provides information acquired, for =
example, by ROLIE?</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The same =
things I said for =93endpoint management=94 apply for =93vulnerability =
management=94. &nbsp;The definition may describe a repository or meta =
directory, but those things are facets to vulnerability management and =
provide vulnerability management capabilities=97the things that are =
likely required by the processes and workflows derived from control =
frameworks.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">5) Management =
Capability:</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">It should be made =
very clear what this capability actually provides; i.e., which category =
of endpoint attributes and/or guidance. This would resolve most of the =
ambiguity in a simple way, I think. Essential information elements of =
the content should also be included in the SACM IM, I think.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>This is an abstract term from which =
specializations can be derived, and I believe the specialization is =
where we can be very clear. &nbsp;We should be able tot describe, =
however, that a =93management capability=94 in the context of SACM is =
one that derives from the level of a control framework.</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">6) Endpoint Management Capability and =
Vulnerability Management Capability:</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">It seems - taking into account 2-4 - that =
Vulnerability Management Capability is a part of Endpoint Management =
Capability?</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I would say =
no. &nbsp;Endpoint management capability is part of asset management =
capability. &nbsp;Vulnerability management capability will certainly =
rely upon endpoint management capabilities, but I would not view it as =
part of endpoint management, coming at this from a control framework =
perspective. &nbsp;Most frameworks will say things like, "manage your =
endpoints so you know where everything is and what you have=94, and then =
say things like, =93for all your endpoints, make sure you=92re =
addressing vulnerabilities=94.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">7) process &amp; workflow:</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">A workflow might involve multiple =
processes with various dependences and interconnections, I think. But I =
am not sure if that distinction is really relevant to SACM. Workflow =
seems to be the more general term and is less overloaded.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I am partial to the term =93workflow=94 over =
=93process=94. &nbsp;</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Viele Gr=FC=DFe,</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Henk</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">On 05/31/2016 10:41 =
PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Did anyone else have any thoughts on this particular =
issue?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If we want to take the approach of =
promoting a few terms as Adam has<br class=3D"">suggested, we might want =
do it as follows.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Supplemental (previously =
targeted) collection: The task of collecting<br class=3D"">specific =
endpoint information from the target endpoint, that is not<br =
class=3D"">available from the endpoint management capability, in order =
to make a<br class=3D"">determination about that endpoint (vulnerability =
status, identification,<br class=3D"">etc.).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">This seems general enough to be promoted as-is.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Vulnerability assessment: The process of =
determining whether a set of<br class=3D"">endpoints is vulnerable =
according to the information contained in the<br class=3D"">vulnerability =
description information.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">We would need to =
generalize it more to remove the reference to<br class=3D"">=93vulnerabili=
ty description information=94. One approach might be to<br =
class=3D"">replace =93vulnerability description information=94 with =
=93information<br class=3D"">pertaining to the existence of a flaw or =
flaws in software, hardware,<br class=3D"">and/or firmware on an =
endpoint.=94 &nbsp;It might also make sense to highlight<br =
class=3D"">this as a specialization of =93assessment=94. &nbsp;As a side =
note, does anyone<br class=3D"">see a distinction between process and =
workflow (as described here<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://blog.goodelearning.com/bpmn/business-process-vs-workflow/" =
class=3D"">http://blog.goodelearning.com/bpmn/business-process-vs-workflow=
/</a>) and<br class=3D"">that assessment might be better described as a =
workflow? With that said,<br class=3D"">our definition comes from =
RFC5209 and we may not want to make any<br class=3D"">changes which is =
perfectly fine =96 just something to think about :).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Endpoint management capability: &nbsp;An enterprise IT =
capability managing<br class=3D"">endpoint identity, endpoint =
information, and associated metadata on an<br class=3D"">ongoing =
basis.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Vulnerability management capability: =
&nbsp;An enterprise IT capability<br class=3D"">managing endpoint =
vulnerabilities and associated metadata on an ongoing<br class=3D"">basis =
by ingesting vulnerability description information and<br =
class=3D"">vulnerability detection data, and performing a vulnerability =
assessment.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Right now, we have definitions =
for =93endpoint management capability=94 and<br class=3D"">=93vulnerabilit=
y management capability=94. To support promoting these, we<br =
class=3D"">may want to create a more general =93management capability=94 =
term and then<br class=3D"">include =93endpoint management capability=94 =
and =93vulnerability management<br class=3D"">capability=94 as =
specializations of that term. &nbsp;A definition of<br =
class=3D"">=93management capability=94 might read something like =93An =
enterprise IT<br class=3D"">capability responsible for managing specific =
information about an<br class=3D"">endpoint in support of continuous =
monitoring processes which may or may<br class=3D"">not be driven by =
guidance=94.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Anyways, this is just a little =
bit more to think about :). &nbsp;Let me know<br class=3D"">what you =
think.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Danny<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">*From:*sacm [<a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>] *On Behalf Of *Haynes, =
Dan<br class=3D"">*Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2016 7:43 AM<br =
class=3D"">*To:* Adam Montville &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">adam.w.montville@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">*Cc:* <a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">*Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment =
Scenario<br class=3D"">Issue #1 - Managing Terminology<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Do others have thoughts regarding whether or not terminology =
from the<br class=3D"">vulnerability assessment scenario draft should be =
promoted ot the<br class=3D"">Terminology I-D? &nbsp;If so, which terms =
make sense to promote?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Danny<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">*From:*Adam =
Montville [<a href=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com</a>]<br class=3D"">*Sent:* =
Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:04 PM<br class=3D"">*To:* Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">*Cc:*<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D"">*Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment =
Scenario<br class=3D"">Issue #1 - Managing Terminology<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I=92ll echo my statements from the virtual interim by =
pointing out that<br class=3D"">the vulnerability scenario, while =
narrowing our focus, does not change<br class=3D"">the scope of our =
charter. &nbsp;=46rom that perspective, I would like to see<br =
class=3D"">terms =93promoted=94 into the terminology draft sooner rather =
than later.<br class=3D"">&nbsp;Of the set of terms Danny described, I =
think endpoint management<br class=3D"">capability and targeted =
collection are prime candidates for such<br class=3D"">promotion. =
&nbsp;I also believe that vulnerability management capability and<br =
class=3D"">vulnerability assessment are suitable for promotion. =
Vulnerability<br class=3D"">description information and vulnerability =
detection data could stay<br class=3D"">within the vulnerability =
draft.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Adam<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On May 17, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Haynes, Dan =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" =
class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;During today=92s virtual interim meeting, =
we discussed various open<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;issues with =
respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a result of feedback that we received on =
the draft which you can see<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;here [2][3]. =
&nbsp;The slide=92s from today=92s meeting can be found here [4].<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The first issue was whether =
or not the following terms from Section<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2 =
of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario should be pulled into the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Terminology I-D [5] with the expectation =
that any terms pulled in<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;will be used =
outside of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=95Vulnerability description information<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=95Vulnerability detection =
data<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=95Endpoint =
management capability<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=95Vulnerability management capability<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=95Vulnerability =
assessment<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=95Targeted =
collection<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;During the =
meeting, there were concerns that while some of these<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;terms leverage general terms already in the =
Terminology I-D, they<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;use them in =
specific ways with respect to the Vulnerability<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Assessment Scenario. &nbsp;It was also =
noted that some terms like<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=93endpoint =
management capability=94 and =93vulnerability management<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;capability=94, while specific, have the =
potential to become broader as<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SACM =
eventually expands into other areas (e.g. configuration,<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;etc.). &nbsp;As a result, the consensus on =
the call was to leave the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;terms in =
Section 2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario, for<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;now, with the expectation that we may =
reassess this decision in the<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;future.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If you have any thoughts on =
this issue, please provide feedback by<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;May=
 31^st . &nbsp;We are planning to have an updated version of the<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;scenario for June 8^th .<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Danny<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[1]<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/"=
 =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenari=
o/</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[2]<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[3]<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.htm=
l</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[4]<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/<=
/a>(looks<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;like the slides are not =
available just yet, but, I suspect they<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;should be soon)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[5]<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/</=
a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_____________________________________________=
__<br class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sacm mailing list<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sacm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
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0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">sacm mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
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font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, sacm@ietf.org, Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
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Yes, some organizations may start with the CIS Critical Controls.

Full disclosure: My org manages development of those controls.


> On Jun 4, 2016, at 1:33 AM, Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.com> wrote:
> 
> More likely they would be using the Critical Security Controls framework.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Yes, some organizations may start with the CIS Critical Controls.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Full disclosure: My org manages development of those controls.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 4, 2016, at 1:33 AM, Tony Rutkowski &lt;<a href="mailto:tony@yaanatech.com" class="">tony@yaanatech.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">More likely they would be using the Critical Security Controls framework.</p>
_______________________________________________<br class="">sacm mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>
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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 07:32:33 -0500
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To: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
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Cc: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Changing the IM "Object" Construct to "Subject"
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I don=E2=80=99t think =E2=80=9Csubject=E2=80=9D is rooted in anything =
IETF/RFC at this point=E2=80=94it=E2=80=99s something we are exploring =
to provide a better way of articulating what we=E2=80=99re getting at =
within the information model.  I think some concrete examples might =
help.  An endpoint could be a subject that has a network interface =
(subject-predicate-object relationship).  That network interface =E2=80=9C=
has a=E2=80=9D IP address (another subject-predicate-object =
relationship).

I=E2=80=99m not saying those are exact examples, but they should be =
enough to demonstrate the intent.

Adam

> On Jun 4, 2016, at 1:58 AM, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> IMHO I'm afraid not.
> Where Subject is coming from? (is that aligned with IETF terminology,
> an RFC...?)
> It's adding complexity/confusion for me while for example not aligning
> anymore with NIST SP 800-53A
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2016-05-31 19:58 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>> Hi Jerome,
>>=20
>> Using our new terms:
>>=20
>>  Subject: unique name and one or more Subjects and/or Attributes
>>  Attribute: unique name and value
>>=20
>> I think it would map as follows to subject-predicate-object.
>>=20
>>  subject: Subject
>>  predicate: always a "has-a" relationship
>>  object: Subject/Attribute
>>=20
>> Does this help clarify things?
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Danny
>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:17 AM
>>> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
>>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Changing the IM "Object" Construct to "Subject"
>>>=20
>>> Yes and No
>>> While the wording is better, it seems there is still semantic =
confusion
>>> regarding triples subject(-predicate-)object
>>>=20
>>> 2016-05-20 2:23 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>>>> At IETF 95, there was an informal SACM working session after the =
first
>>>> SACM session [1].  During the meeting, it was proposed that we =
change
>>>> the name of the IM construct =E2=80=9CObject=E2=80=9D to =
=E2=80=9CSubject=E2=80=9D.  The definitions
>>>> effectively remain the same although worded differently:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>    Object: Objects are the mechanism by which attributes (Section
>>>> 3.1) and/or other objects can be logically grouped together to =
create
>>>> more complex models.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>    Subject: A subject is a richer structure that has a unique =
subject
>>>> name and one or more attributes or subjects.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Anyways, during the virtual interim meeting on Tuesday, I realized
>>>> that I forgot to bring this proposed change to the list for broader
>>>> consensus.  As a result, I wanted to do that now as part of the IM =
updates.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Please let me know if you have any objections or concerns with this
>>>> change by May 25th.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>=20
>>>> Danny
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> [1] =
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03907.html
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sacm mailing list
>>>> sacm@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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From nobody Mon Jun  6 08:00:43 2016
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From: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:00:18 +0300
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To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Cc: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Changing the IM "Object" Construct to "Subject"
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Right. Just putting things on the table...

So I think we agree on Objects-Attributes.
For physical things, I do like to use the notion of Components (e.g.
Components of a Device. And a Component could have (sub)Components.
e.g. processor, SIM card, etc.)

Now, back to the subject :p and your examples, just for information,
in (STIX)CybOX they use the term Top Level Object (TLO).




2016-06-06 15:32 GMT+03:00 Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>:
> I don=E2=80=99t think =E2=80=9Csubject=E2=80=9D is rooted in anything IET=
F/RFC at this point=E2=80=94it=E2=80=99s something we are exploring to prov=
ide a better way of articulating what we=E2=80=99re getting at within the i=
nformation model.  I think some concrete examples might help.  An endpoint =
could be a subject that has a network interface (subject-predicate-object r=
elationship).  That network interface =E2=80=9Chas a=E2=80=9D IP address (a=
nother subject-predicate-object relationship).
>
> I=E2=80=99m not saying those are exact examples, but they should be enoug=
h to demonstrate the intent.
>
> Adam
>
>> On Jun 4, 2016, at 1:58 AM, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>
>> IMHO I'm afraid not.
>> Where Subject is coming from? (is that aligned with IETF terminology,
>> an RFC...?)
>> It's adding complexity/confusion for me while for example not aligning
>> anymore with NIST SP 800-53A
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-05-31 19:58 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>>> Hi Jerome,
>>>
>>> Using our new terms:
>>>
>>>  Subject: unique name and one or more Subjects and/or Attributes
>>>  Attribute: unique name and value
>>>
>>> I think it would map as follows to subject-predicate-object.
>>>
>>>  subject: Subject
>>>  predicate: always a "has-a" relationship
>>>  object: Subject/Attribute
>>>
>>> Does this help clarify things?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Danny
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:17 AM
>>>> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
>>>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Changing the IM "Object" Construct to "Subject"
>>>>
>>>> Yes and No
>>>> While the wording is better, it seems there is still semantic confusio=
n
>>>> regarding triples subject(-predicate-)object
>>>>
>>>> 2016-05-20 2:23 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>>>>> At IETF 95, there was an informal SACM working session after the firs=
t
>>>>> SACM session [1].  During the meeting, it was proposed that we change
>>>>> the name of the IM construct =E2=80=9CObject=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CSub=
ject=E2=80=9D.  The definitions
>>>>> effectively remain the same although worded differently:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Object: Objects are the mechanism by which attributes (Section
>>>>> 3.1) and/or other objects can be logically grouped together to create
>>>>> more complex models.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Subject: A subject is a richer structure that has a unique subject
>>>>> name and one or more attributes or subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyways, during the virtual interim meeting on Tuesday, I realized
>>>>> that I forgot to bring this proposed change to the list for broader
>>>>> consensus.  As a result, I wanted to do that now as part of the IM up=
dates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let me know if you have any objections or concerns with this
>>>>> change by May 25th.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Danny
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03907.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sacm mailing list
>>>>> sacm@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>


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From: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/R_380PfOzsuwXYEtFEw7KqNQp1Y>
Cc: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Hello everyone,

I wanted to do a quick loop back to the original question of this thread,
namely the adoption of
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as a SACM
working group document. This and other threads have indicated that there is
some desire to evolve the document to address certain concerns, many of
which I hope to address in the next draft. 

With the understanding that adoption as a working group draft does not in
any way end the discussion or evolution of this draft, are there any other
thoughts regarding adoption? 

Gunnar/Tony - you both raised concerns about adoption due to the document
being exclusively focused on ISO SWID tags, but since then there appears to
be agreement to expand to other possible tag types (with the caveat that
there also appears to be consensus that this list of tags should be
constrained so that endpoints are sending content using a consistent data
model). Does this alteration address you concerns? If so, does that change
your feelings on adoption?

Thanks,
Charles 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:51 PM
> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; tony@yaanatech.com;
> Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
as
> a SACM WG document
> 
> 
> Inline...
> 
> On 5/19/2016 1:27 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> > Tony/Gunnar,
> >
> > I agree. Details below.
> >
> >> 	Two questions not asked: who might do the
> >> 	work to bridge the gap with the gazillion other
> >> 	software identifier approaches out there, and
> >> 	whether some form of out-of-band SWID capability
> >> 	(as is used with may of the other SWID mechanisms)
> >> 	cannot be included.  For a lot of IoT stuff, it is
> >> 	essential.
> >>
> >> This right here is an excellent point.  There are other software ID
> > mechanisms
> >> out there and SWID is not going to cover everything for which there is
an
> >> alternative.
> >>
> >> Because this proposal is so SWID-specific, I can't get behind it.
> > However, if it
> >> was genericized to allow for use of current and possible future tagging
> >> mechanisms, I could certainly support that.
> > This makes sense. Even those strongly attached to the use of SWID tags
> would
> > like to make sure that this specification can handle future revisions of
the
> > ISO SWID specification, and as you both note, there are other structures
> out
> > there which people might wish to use.
> >
> > Basically, it seems to me that we want to support a common, core set of
> > functionality related to inventory and inventory events, but that we
want
> to
> > have some flexibility in the data (I'll call these "records") used to
convey
> > that information to a policy server. Are we in agreement on this? (I
don't
> > think we want the nature of what one can infer from a report to change
> based
> > on the record structure used to convey that report.)
> >
> > Given this, the following are the core capabilities of SWID M&A for
> > reporting records as I see them:
> > 1) Records need to be associated with specific instances of a specific
> > software product and version thereof.
> > --- If the same version of the same product is installed multiple times,
> > there will need to be multiple records naming the same product and
> version -
> > one associated with each actual installation. (We need to convey that a
> > given product+version is installed "exactly X times" rather than "at
least
> > one instance".)
> > --- Changes to a software product need to result in a change in the
> > associated record. (The record needs to distinguish between AcmeApp
> v1.2.3
> > and AcmeApp v1.2.4, since this is critical to multiple consumers of this
> > data.)
> > --- Records associated with a product+version need to be consistent over
> > time and across endpoints. (There needs to be an easy way for the SWID-
> PV to
> > say "this is the same product+version" across different reports and
> between
> > reports from different machines.)
> > 2) If the record is more than about 200 bytes, there needs to be a
concise
> > identifier for this record. In SWID tags, this is created by the
combination
> > of the TagCreatorRegID and the TagID fields. (Concise identifiers are
used
> > in multiple places in SWID M&A to convey information without bloating
> > messages.)
> 
> I tried to find fault, but I think as a basic core set, this is good
> coverage.
> 
> In ongoing practice there are undoubtedly going to be more capabilities
> desired for other use cases, and some tagging solutions will have useful
> capabilities that are not available in others. Extensibility is assumed.
> 
> I think it's also a necessity that a common data model be used
> regardless of the tag type/source.  For hopefully obvious reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Do you (or anyone) have any questions or concerns about any of these
> core
> > capabilities, or have any others to add? I think all of the other SWID
M&A
> > capabilities (monitoring for changes, tracking and ordering of events,
> > subscriptions, processing targeted requests, etc.) are fairly neutral
with
> > regard to the record structure used in messages assuming the two
> > requirements above are met. Let me know if you disagree about that.
> >
> > Capabilities do not need to be inherent in the record itself. (For
example,
> > there is nothing in a SWID tag that allows one to distinguish between
> > multiple installations of a single product.) There just needs to be a
> > reliable, deterministic mechanism by which these capabilities can be met
> > while using the record.
> >
> > I will work on putting together some proposals on how different record
> types
> > can be clearly labeled in SWID M&A messages so recipients can know the
> type
> > of content they are getting prior to parsing. (Probably want a way for
> > SWID-PVs to express a preference too... need to think about this.) While
I
> > am doing that, if you have a favorite non-ISO-SWID record that you would
> > like to see supported, could you put together any necessary requirements
> > that would be needed to ensure it aligns with the core capabilities
> > described above? I think that would be very useful for fleshing out this
> > flexibility.
> >
> > I am interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks for the input.
> >
> > Charles


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From: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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To: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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On 6/6/2016 11:36 AM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I wanted to do a quick loop back to the original question of this thread,
> namely the adoption of
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as a SACM
> working group document. This and other threads have indicated that there is
> some desire to evolve the document to address certain concerns, many of
> which I hope to address in the next draft.
>
> With the understanding that adoption as a working group draft does not in
> any way end the discussion or evolution of this draft, are there any other
> thoughts regarding adoption?
>
> Gunnar/Tony - you both raised concerns about adoption due to the document
> being exclusively focused on ISO SWID tags, but since then there appears to
> be agreement to expand to other possible tag types (with the caveat that
> there also appears to be consensus that this list of tags should be
> constrained so that endpoints are sending content using a consistent data
> model). Does this alteration address you concerns? If so, does that change
> your feelings on adoption?

If there's going to be a consistent data model I don't see I reason why 
there should be any constraint on what endpoint tag types are supported.

I'd prefer to see that translation happen as soon in the lifecycle of 
the data as possible, but we'll see what consensus is on that. For 
reasons already stated, if that translation is done centrally then I 
don't SACM adoption extending much beyond a few large vendors that put 
out, effectively, their own stovepipes.


--gun


>
> Thanks,
> Charles
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:51 PM
>> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; tony@yaanatech.com;
>> Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
>> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
> as
>> a SACM WG document
>>
>>
>> Inline...
>>
>> On 5/19/2016 1:27 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
>>> Tony/Gunnar,
>>>
>>> I agree. Details below.
>>>
>>>> 	Two questions not asked: who might do the
>>>> 	work to bridge the gap with the gazillion other
>>>> 	software identifier approaches out there, and
>>>> 	whether some form of out-of-band SWID capability
>>>> 	(as is used with may of the other SWID mechanisms)
>>>> 	cannot be included.  For a lot of IoT stuff, it is
>>>> 	essential.
>>>>
>>>> This right here is an excellent point.  There are other software ID
>>> mechanisms
>>>> out there and SWID is not going to cover everything for which there is
> an
>>>> alternative.
>>>>
>>>> Because this proposal is so SWID-specific, I can't get behind it.
>>> However, if it
>>>> was genericized to allow for use of current and possible future tagging
>>>> mechanisms, I could certainly support that.
>>> This makes sense. Even those strongly attached to the use of SWID tags
>> would
>>> like to make sure that this specification can handle future revisions of
> the
>>> ISO SWID specification, and as you both note, there are other structures
>> out
>>> there which people might wish to use.
>>>
>>> Basically, it seems to me that we want to support a common, core set of
>>> functionality related to inventory and inventory events, but that we
> want
>> to
>>> have some flexibility in the data (I'll call these "records") used to
> convey
>>> that information to a policy server. Are we in agreement on this? (I
> don't
>>> think we want the nature of what one can infer from a report to change
>> based
>>> on the record structure used to convey that report.)
>>>
>>> Given this, the following are the core capabilities of SWID M&A for
>>> reporting records as I see them:
>>> 1) Records need to be associated with specific instances of a specific
>>> software product and version thereof.
>>> --- If the same version of the same product is installed multiple times,
>>> there will need to be multiple records naming the same product and
>> version -
>>> one associated with each actual installation. (We need to convey that a
>>> given product+version is installed "exactly X times" rather than "at
> least
>>> one instance".)
>>> --- Changes to a software product need to result in a change in the
>>> associated record. (The record needs to distinguish between AcmeApp
>> v1.2.3
>>> and AcmeApp v1.2.4, since this is critical to multiple consumers of this
>>> data.)
>>> --- Records associated with a product+version need to be consistent over
>>> time and across endpoints. (There needs to be an easy way for the SWID-
>> PV to
>>> say "this is the same product+version" across different reports and
>> between
>>> reports from different machines.)
>>> 2) If the record is more than about 200 bytes, there needs to be a
> concise
>>> identifier for this record. In SWID tags, this is created by the
> combination
>>> of the TagCreatorRegID and the TagID fields. (Concise identifiers are
> used
>>> in multiple places in SWID M&A to convey information without bloating
>>> messages.)
>> I tried to find fault, but I think as a basic core set, this is good
>> coverage.
>>
>> In ongoing practice there are undoubtedly going to be more capabilities
>> desired for other use cases, and some tagging solutions will have useful
>> capabilities that are not available in others. Extensibility is assumed.
>>
>> I think it's also a necessity that a common data model be used
>> regardless of the tag type/source.  For hopefully obvious reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Do you (or anyone) have any questions or concerns about any of these
>> core
>>> capabilities, or have any others to add? I think all of the other SWID
> M&A
>>> capabilities (monitoring for changes, tracking and ordering of events,
>>> subscriptions, processing targeted requests, etc.) are fairly neutral
> with
>>> regard to the record structure used in messages assuming the two
>>> requirements above are met. Let me know if you disagree about that.
>>>
>>> Capabilities do not need to be inherent in the record itself. (For
> example,
>>> there is nothing in a SWID tag that allows one to distinguish between
>>> multiple installations of a single product.) There just needs to be a
>>> reliable, deterministic mechanism by which these capabilities can be met
>>> while using the record.
>>>
>>> I will work on putting together some proposals on how different record
>> types
>>> can be clearly labeled in SWID M&A messages so recipients can know the
>> type
>>> of content they are getting prior to parsing. (Probably want a way for
>>> SWID-PVs to express a preference too... need to think about this.) While
> I
>>> am doing that, if you have a favorite non-ISO-SWID record that you would
>>> like to see supported, could you put together any necessary requirements
>>> that would be needed to ensure it aligns with the core capabilities
>>> described above? I think that would be very useful for fleshing out this
>>> flexibility.
>>>
>>> I am interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks for the input.
>>>
>>> Charles


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From: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/WDdstRBu2qzxci6x1I07dI7_6Hg>
Cc: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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> If there's going to be a consistent data model I don't see I reason why
> there should be any constraint on what endpoint tag types are supported.

I'm afraid you have lost me here. My understanding was that you were arguing
that SWID M&A should support tag types other than the ISO SWID tags. As I
understand the term, ISO SWID 2015 defines a data model, and then different
tag formats (XML, CBOR, JSON) would all be data formats of that common data
model.  But if we have completely different tag types, (for example, SWID
2015 tags and RPM records), I'm confused how there could be a common data
model that both represent. In other words, when you argued for a common data
model, to me this implicitly meant we needed to curtail the types of tags
supported to only those that could serialize that common data model.

Sorry if I am being slow here, but could you clarify how you see the tag
types relating to this common data model?

Thanks,
Charles

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 1:45 PM
> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; tony@yaanatech.com;
> Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
as
> a SACM WG document
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/6/2016 11:36 AM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I wanted to do a quick loop back to the original question of this
thread,
> > namely the adoption of
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as a
> SACM
> > working group document. This and other threads have indicated that there
> is
> > some desire to evolve the document to address certain concerns, many of
> > which I hope to address in the next draft.
> >
> > With the understanding that adoption as a working group draft does not
in
> > any way end the discussion or evolution of this draft, are there any
other
> > thoughts regarding adoption?
> >
> > Gunnar/Tony - you both raised concerns about adoption due to the
> document
> > being exclusively focused on ISO SWID tags, but since then there appears
> to
> > be agreement to expand to other possible tag types (with the caveat that
> > there also appears to be consensus that this list of tags should be
> > constrained so that endpoints are sending content using a consistent
data
> > model). Does this alteration address you concerns? If so, does that
change
> > your feelings on adoption?
> 
> If there's going to be a consistent data model I don't see I reason why
> there should be any constraint on what endpoint tag types are supported.
> 
> I'd prefer to see that translation happen as soon in the lifecycle of
> the data as possible, but we'll see what consensus is on that. For
> reasons already stated, if that translation is done centrally then I
> don't SACM adoption extending much beyond a few large vendors that put
> out, effectively, their own stovepipes.
> 
> 
> --gun
> 
> 
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Charles
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:51 PM
> >> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; tony@yaanatech.com;
> >> Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
> >> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> >> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of
draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
> > as
> >> a SACM WG document
> >>
> >>
> >> Inline...
> >>
> >> On 5/19/2016 1:27 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> >>> Tony/Gunnar,
> >>>
> >>> I agree. Details below.
> >>>
> >>>> 	Two questions not asked: who might do the
> >>>> 	work to bridge the gap with the gazillion other
> >>>> 	software identifier approaches out there, and
> >>>> 	whether some form of out-of-band SWID capability
> >>>> 	(as is used with may of the other SWID mechanisms)
> >>>> 	cannot be included.  For a lot of IoT stuff, it is
> >>>> 	essential.
> >>>>
> >>>> This right here is an excellent point.  There are other software ID
> >>> mechanisms
> >>>> out there and SWID is not going to cover everything for which there
is
> > an
> >>>> alternative.
> >>>>
> >>>> Because this proposal is so SWID-specific, I can't get behind it.
> >>> However, if it
> >>>> was genericized to allow for use of current and possible future
tagging
> >>>> mechanisms, I could certainly support that.
> >>> This makes sense. Even those strongly attached to the use of SWID tags
> >> would
> >>> like to make sure that this specification can handle future revisions
of
> > the
> >>> ISO SWID specification, and as you both note, there are other
structures
> >> out
> >>> there which people might wish to use.
> >>>
> >>> Basically, it seems to me that we want to support a common, core set
of
> >>> functionality related to inventory and inventory events, but that we
> > want
> >> to
> >>> have some flexibility in the data (I'll call these "records") used to
> > convey
> >>> that information to a policy server. Are we in agreement on this? (I
> > don't
> >>> think we want the nature of what one can infer from a report to change
> >> based
> >>> on the record structure used to convey that report.)
> >>>
> >>> Given this, the following are the core capabilities of SWID M&A for
> >>> reporting records as I see them:
> >>> 1) Records need to be associated with specific instances of a specific
> >>> software product and version thereof.
> >>> --- If the same version of the same product is installed multiple
times,
> >>> there will need to be multiple records naming the same product and
> >> version -
> >>> one associated with each actual installation. (We need to convey that
a
> >>> given product+version is installed "exactly X times" rather than "at
> > least
> >>> one instance".)
> >>> --- Changes to a software product need to result in a change in the
> >>> associated record. (The record needs to distinguish between AcmeApp
> >> v1.2.3
> >>> and AcmeApp v1.2.4, since this is critical to multiple consumers of
this
> >>> data.)
> >>> --- Records associated with a product+version need to be consistent
> over
> >>> time and across endpoints. (There needs to be an easy way for the
> SWID-
> >> PV to
> >>> say "this is the same product+version" across different reports and
> >> between
> >>> reports from different machines.)
> >>> 2) If the record is more than about 200 bytes, there needs to be a
> > concise
> >>> identifier for this record. In SWID tags, this is created by the
> > combination
> >>> of the TagCreatorRegID and the TagID fields. (Concise identifiers are
> > used
> >>> in multiple places in SWID M&A to convey information without bloating
> >>> messages.)
> >> I tried to find fault, but I think as a basic core set, this is good
> >> coverage.
> >>
> >> In ongoing practice there are undoubtedly going to be more capabilities
> >> desired for other use cases, and some tagging solutions will have
useful
> >> capabilities that are not available in others. Extensibility is
assumed.
> >>
> >> I think it's also a necessity that a common data model be used
> >> regardless of the tag type/source.  For hopefully obvious reasons.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Do you (or anyone) have any questions or concerns about any of these
> >> core
> >>> capabilities, or have any others to add? I think all of the other SWID
> > M&A
> >>> capabilities (monitoring for changes, tracking and ordering of events,
> >>> subscriptions, processing targeted requests, etc.) are fairly neutral
> > with
> >>> regard to the record structure used in messages assuming the two
> >>> requirements above are met. Let me know if you disagree about that.
> >>>
> >>> Capabilities do not need to be inherent in the record itself. (For
> > example,
> >>> there is nothing in a SWID tag that allows one to distinguish between
> >>> multiple installations of a single product.) There just needs to be a
> >>> reliable, deterministic mechanism by which these capabilities can be
met
> >>> while using the record.
> >>>
> >>> I will work on putting together some proposals on how different record
> >> types
> >>> can be clearly labeled in SWID M&A messages so recipients can know the
> >> type
> >>> of content they are getting prior to parsing. (Probably want a way for
> >>> SWID-PVs to express a preference too... need to think about this.)
While
> > I
> >>> am doing that, if you have a favorite non-ISO-SWID record that you
> would
> >>> like to see supported, could you put together any necessary
> requirements
> >>> that would be needed to ensure it aligns with the core capabilities
> >>> described above? I think that would be very useful for fleshing out
this
> >>> flexibility.
> >>>
> >>> I am interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks for the input.
> >>>
> >>> Charles


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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
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Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
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> 1) Supplemental Collection task: looks like a good way to move forward
>=20
> Does this propose to define a separate collection task that focuses on on=
 the
> acquisition of previously obtained endpoint attributes from a repository =
in
> the SACM domain? The endpoint attributes could be identical to the ones
> that can be acquired via the already defined collection task, but most
> certainly do not have to be! I would propose to "handle" the endpoint
> attributes in an identical way and to annotate where they come from, when
> they were acquired and similar metadata.
>=20
> As a result, this could enable a single method to conduct both tasks and
> simply things, I think.


[danny]: No, I don't think this proposes a separate collection task.  It wo=
uld just be the standard collection task already defined.  That is, once th=
e vulnerability management capability realizes that it does not have certai=
n information that it needs for an assessment (as specified in the vulnerab=
ility detection data), it would call out to a collector, via a collection t=
ask, with guidance on what information to collect. Once the task completes =
and the collector provides that information, the vulnerability management c=
apability can continue with the assessment.=20

=20
> 2) Vulnerability assessment: the proposed definition sounds fine
>=20
> The current definition of Endpoint Assessment is: "Evaluate the actual va=
lues
> of the endpoint attributes against those expressed in the policy.
> (An evaluation result may become additional endpoint data)."
>=20
> Implied - but yet not explicitly defined - in the definition of Endpoint
> Assessment is that it is a concatenated sequence of tasks defined by SACM=
.
> (Software) vulnerability assessment would be a specialization of that
> composition of tasks.
>=20
> Background: i.e., the vulnerability assessment would process a sub-set of
> endpoint attributes that can be acquired by the:
>=20
> - collection task (which is directly targeted at specific target
> endpoints) and the
> - target endpoint discovery task (which is supposed to be acquiring any k=
ind
> indicator information (i.e. also endpoint attributes) that can be used to
> detect and re-detect target endpoints in a SACM domain) as a basis for th=
e
> collection task.


[danny]: I agree with this.


> 3) Endpoint management capability: seems to be a little bit vague, still.
> Especially the term "management".
>=20
> This description seems to be more about a repository of expected
> (should) or possible (could) states that are based on configuration? Is a=
n
> endpoint management capability (and its corresponding functions) also
> providing guidance(instructions)?


[danny]: I was under the impression that it would just provide endpoint inf=
ormation and not guidance. With that said, I think an endpoint management c=
apability could be controlled by guidance.


> 4) Vulnerability management capability: Here too, the term management
> seems to imply guidance (or management decision) of some sort.
>=20
> The definition itself seems to describe a repository or a meta directory =
that
> provides information acquired, for example, by ROLIE?


[danny]: Yes, the vulnerability detection data is the guidance that drives =
how it carries out an assessment.


> 5) Management Capability:
>=20
> It should be made very clear what this capability actually provides;
> i.e., which category of endpoint attributes and/or guidance. This would
> resolve most of the ambiguity in a simple way, I think. Essential
> information elements of the content should also be included in the SACM
> IM, I think.


[danny]: I left it particularly vague (i.e. information) because we have ye=
t to define all the management capabilities we want :).  Based on the discu=
ssion during the last virtual interim meeting, I was under the impression t=
hat we would define new ones as we focus on additional areas (configuration=
, hardware, maybe something for guidance?, etc.).=20


> 6) Endpoint Management Capability and Vulnerability Management
> Capability:
>=20
> It seems - taking into account 2-4 - that Vulnerability Management
> Capability is a part of Endpoint Management Capability?


[danny]: I am not sure.  I suspect it is up to the implementer whether or n=
ot they want standalone capabilities or a monolithic one.


> 7) process & workflow:
>=20
> A workflow might involve multiple processes with various dependences and
> interconnections, I think. But I am not sure if that distinction is
> really relevant to SACM. Workflow seems to be the more general term and
> is less overloaded.


[danny]: So, is that a +1 for workflow :)?

Thanks,

Danny


> Viele Gr=FC=DFe,
>=20
> Henk
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 05/31/2016 10:41 PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:
> > Did anyone else have any thoughts on this particular issue?
> >
> > If we want to take the approach of promoting a few terms as Adam has
> > suggested, we might want do it as follows.
> >
> > Supplemental (previously targeted) collection: The task of collecting
> > specific endpoint information from the target endpoint, that is not
> > available from the endpoint management capability, in order to make a
> > determination about that endpoint (vulnerability status, identification=
,
> > etc.).
> >
> > This seems general enough to be promoted as-is.
> >
> > Vulnerability assessment: The process of determining whether a set of
> > endpoints is vulnerable according to the information contained in the
> > vulnerability description information.
> >
> > We would need to generalize it more to remove the reference to
> > "vulnerability description information". One approach might be to
> > replace "vulnerability description information" with "information
> > pertaining to the existence of a flaw or flaws in software, hardware,
> > and/or firmware on an endpoint."  It might also make sense to highlight
> > this as a specialization of "assessment".  As a side note, does anyone
> > see a distinction between process and workflow (as described here
> > http://blog.goodelearning.com/bpmn/business-process-vs-workflow/)
> and
> > that assessment might be better described as a workflow? With that said=
,
> > our definition comes from RFC5209 and we may not want to make any
> > changes which is perfectly fine - just something to think about :).
> >
> > Endpoint management capability:  An enterprise IT capability managing
> > endpoint identity, endpoint information, and associated metadata on an
> > ongoing basis.
> >
> > Vulnerability management capability:  An enterprise IT capability
> > managing endpoint vulnerabilities and associated metadata on an ongoing
> > basis by ingesting vulnerability description information and
> > vulnerability detection data, and performing a vulnerability assessment=
.
> >
> > Right now, we have definitions for "endpoint management capability" and
> > "vulnerability management capability". To support promoting these, we
> > may want to create a more general "management capability" term and
> then
> > include "endpoint management capability" and "vulnerability management
> > capability" as specializations of that term.  A definition of
> > "management capability" might read something like "An enterprise IT
> > capability responsible for managing specific information about an
> > endpoint in support of continuous monitoring processes which may or may
> > not be driven by guidance".
> >
> > Anyways, this is just a little bit more to think about :).  Let me know
> > what you think.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > *From:*sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Haynes,
> Dan
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2016 7:43 AM
> > *To:* Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
> > *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
> > Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
> >
> > Do others have thoughts regarding whether or not terminology from the
> > vulnerability assessment scenario draft should be promoted ot the
> > Terminology I-D?  If so, which terms make sense to promote?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > *From:*Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:04 PM
> > *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>
> > *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> > *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
> > Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
> >
> > I'll echo my statements from the virtual interim by pointing out that
> > the vulnerability scenario, while narrowing our focus, does not change
> > the scope of our charter.  From that perspective, I would like to see
> > terms "promoted" into the terminology draft sooner rather than later.
> >   Of the set of terms Danny described, I think endpoint management
> > capability and targeted collection are prime candidates for such
> > promotion.  I also believe that vulnerability management capability and
> > vulnerability assessment are suitable for promotion. Vulnerability
> > description information and vulnerability detection data could stay
> > within the vulnerability draft.
> >
> > Adam
> >
> >     On May 17, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> >     <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     During today's virtual interim meeting, we discussed various open
> >     issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as
> >     a result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can se=
e
> >     here [2][3].  The slide's from today's meeting can be found here [4=
].
> >
> >     The first issue was whether or not the following terms from Section
> >     2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario should be pulled into th=
e
> >     Terminology I-D [5] with the expectation that any terms pulled in
> >     will be used outside of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario.
> >
> >     .Vulnerability description information
> >
> >     .Vulnerability detection data
> >
> >     .Endpoint management capability
> >
> >     .Vulnerability management capability
> >
> >     .Vulnerability assessment
> >
> >     .Targeted collection
> >
> >     During the meeting, there were concerns that while some of these
> >     terms leverage general terms already in the Terminology I-D, they
> >     use them in specific ways with respect to the Vulnerability
> >     Assessment Scenario.  It was also noted that some terms like
> >     "endpoint management capability" and "vulnerability management
> >     capability", while specific, have the potential to become broader a=
s
> >     SACM eventually expands into other areas (e.g. configuration,
> >     etc.).  As a result, the consensus on the call was to leave the
> >     terms in Section 2 of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario, for
> >     now, with the expectation that we may reassess this decision in the
> >     future.
> >
> >     If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by
> >     May 31^st .  We are planning to have an updated version of the
> >     scenario for June 8^th .
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >
> >     Danny
> >
> >     [1]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario=
/
> >
> >     [2]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
> >
> >     [3]https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
> >
> >     [4]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/(l=
ooks
> >     like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they
> >     should be soon)
> >
> >     [5]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     sacm mailing list
> >     sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sacm mailing list
> > sacm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 07:07:58 +0300
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From: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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This rewrite is imho better
Thanks

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help
> clarify things?
>
> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment
> scenarios, as
> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection
> data over
> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional
> detection
> information that it was previously not collecting and push that
> information to the
> vulnerability management capability where it can support future
> assessments. The
> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,
> change
> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>
> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability
> management capability and the endpoint management capability, as written,=
 I
> think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.
> I think the point is just that you could do something like this to improv=
e
> the vulnerability assessment.
>
> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be to
> just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would preclu=
de
> an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com <javascript:;>]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
> > To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <javascript:;>>
> > Cc: sacm@ietf.org <javascript:;>
> > Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5
> > - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
> >
> > While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that
> "the
> > information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
> > information":
> > I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would ha=
ve
> > to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
> > capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with
> > 'unknown' additional information)
> >
> > So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
> something
> > like "the updated information"
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <javascript:;=
>
> >:
> > > During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed vari=
ous open
> > > issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a
> > > result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
> > > here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here =
[4].
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we =
ran out
> > > of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the
> > > ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerabilit=
y
> > > assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
> > > following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
> (specifically the
> > last sentence).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine =
an
> > > endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
> > >
> > > collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> > > Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
> > >
> > > endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository an=
d
> > > a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
> > >
> > > an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to
> > > enable operators to perform targeted collection under
> > >
> > > certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
> > > provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
> > >
> > > may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection o=
f
> > > endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
> > >
> > > assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerabilit=
y
> > > assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
> > >
> > > scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> > > information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
> > >
> > > management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
> > > capability by the endpoint whenever that information
> > >
> > > changes.=E2=80=9D
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
> > > endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
> > > capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know
> > > what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it
> > > (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
> > > situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional
> > > information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting i=
t?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by Ma=
y
> > 31st.
> > > We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June
> 8th.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Danny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
> > >
> > > [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
> > >
> > > [3] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
> > >
> > > [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/
> > > (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect the=
y
> > > should be
> > > soon)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sacm mailing list
> > > sacm@ietf.org <javascript:;>
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> > >
>

--001a114573129a91fe0534a85579
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This rewrite is imho better<div>Thanks<span></span><br><br>On Tuesday, 7 Ju=
ne 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mitre=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Based on the feedback=
, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help clarify things?<br>
<br>
&quot;In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment sc=
enarios, as<br>
the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection d=
ata over<br>
time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional detecti=
on<br>
information that it was previously not collecting and push that information=
 to the<br>
vulnerability management capability where it can support future assessments=
. The<br>
pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g., chang=
e<br>
in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.).&quot;<br=
>
<br>
While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability managem=
ent capability and the endpoint management capability, as written, I think =
it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.=C2=A0 I=
 think the point is just that you could do something like this to improve t=
he vulnerability assessment.<br>
<br>
If we still don&#39;t have consensus on this, another approach might be to =
just remove this text all together as I don&#39;t think doing so would prec=
lude an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their produc=
t.<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Jerome Athias [mailto:<a href=3D"javascript:;" onclick=3D"_e(eve=
nt, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;athiasjerome@gmail.com&#39;)">athiasjerome@gmail.c=
om</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br>
&gt; To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:;" onclick=3D"_e(event, &#39=
;cvml&#39;, &#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;)">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"javascript:;" onclick=3D"_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39=
;sacm@ietf.org&#39;)">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issu=
e #5<br>
&gt; - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that =
&quot;the<br>
&gt; information beyond that&quot; would be &quot;supplemental endpoint<br>
&gt; information&quot;:<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t see a scenario where an endpoint management capability wou=
ld have<br>
&gt; to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment<br>
&gt; capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with=
<br>
&gt; &#39;unknown&#39; additional information)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So I think the issue is to change &quot;the information beyond that&qu=
ot; to something<br>
&gt; like &quot;the updated information&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:;" on=
click=3D"_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;)">dhaynes@mi=
tre.org</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt; &gt; During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed =
various open<br>
&gt; &gt; issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] =
as a<br>
&gt; &gt; result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can se=
e<br>
&gt; &gt; here [2][3].=C2=A0 The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be fo=
und here [4].<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because=
 we ran out<br>
&gt; &gt; of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has =
the<br>
&gt; &gt; ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerab=
ility<br>
&gt; &gt; assessment capability.=C2=A0 This question came out of a review o=
f the<br>
&gt; &gt; following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario (specif=
ically the<br>
&gt; last sentence).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determ=
ine an<br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously=
<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in =
a<br>
&gt; &gt; Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repositor=
y and<br>
&gt; &gt; a targeted collection will be necessary.=C2=A0 Of course,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer=
 to<br>
&gt; &gt; enable operators to perform targeted collection under<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be<br=
>
&gt; &gt; provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collecti=
on of<br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerab=
ility<br>
&gt; &gt; assessment capability.=C2=A0 Under certain deployment<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the=
<br>
&gt; &gt; information beyond that which is available in the endpoint<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessme=
nt<br>
&gt; &gt; capability by the endpoint whenever that information<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; changes.=E2=80=9D<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the<=
br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment<br=
>
&gt; &gt; capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily =
know<br>
&gt; &gt; what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting =
it<br>
&gt; &gt; (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?=C2=A0 Is there =
a<br>
&gt; &gt; situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additio=
nal<br>
&gt; &gt; information is needed for an assessment without a server requesti=
ng it?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback b=
y May<br>
&gt; 31st.<br>
&gt; &gt; We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for Ju=
ne 8th.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Danny<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm=
-vuln-scenario/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-c=
offin-sacm-vuln-scenario/</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/p=
ull/3" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/p=
ull/3</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [3] <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current=
/msg03958.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sac=
m/current/msg03958.html</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [4] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-20=
16-sacm-3-1/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-int=
erim-2016-sacm-3-1/</a><br>
&gt; &gt; (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect=
 they<br>
&gt; &gt; should be<br>
&gt; &gt; soon)<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; sacm mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"javascript:;" onclick=3D"_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#3=
9;sacm@ietf.org&#39;)">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
</blockquote></div>

--001a114573129a91fe0534a85579--


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From: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 21:44:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Ok - Gunnar has set me straight.

Put in terms for the easily confused (such as myself): Gunnar was advocating
that the network messages used to convey tag data via SWID M&A employ a
standard data model so that recipients always see the same structure in the
messages and can rely on being able to parse it. With that in mind, many tag
types could be converted to this common data model used in the messages,
thus many tag types should be collected by the Posture Collector as
potential input. Gunnar - did I get it right?

In fact, this is largely what the SWID M&A specification does now. The ISO
SWID 2015 and ISO SWID 2009 specifications form a data model for SWID M&A
messages conveying tag information. However, the specification notes that
the SWID tag collection that is conveyed in these messages could come from
many "sources", some of which might be translated from different record
types. (E.g., potentially converted from package manager records or third
party inventory tool results.)

That said, based on some of the conversations that have occurred in meetings
and on list, I think there are some open questions here:
1) Currently SWID M&A uses the ISO SWID specifications as a data model.
Various parties have weighed in on the pros and cons of ISO SWID tags.
Looking from a strictly data-model perspective, what structure makes sense
for conveying tag/inventory data as the standard data model in these
messages. Personally, I would argue that the core should probably be an
existing structure - I don't see any call to invent yet another way to
describe software. 

2) As I wrote it, one of the change proposals presented to the group was
effectively to allow SWID M&A to convey any type of tag natively and simply
include a field to identify the type of tag contained in the message. This
would allow SWID M&A to convey inventory information via an unlimited number
of data models. What do people think about this given the recent
discussions? Gunnar, I take it you would be against this change and would
prefer a fixed tag format (a.k.a. data model) in the SWID M&A messages
themselves. Other thoughts?

3) With regard to conversion, I will note that some tag types (e.g., ISO
SWID tags) can be cryptographically signed. Obviously, any conversion is
going to lose those signatures. Do people think that being able to discern
correctly signed tags from other tags would be of operational significance?
If so, maybe the solution would be three types of messages: a) capture
inventory information using a single, standard data model to which all
source tags are converted [by-normalized-value], b) capture inventory
information using identifiers that can be used to reference tag structures
[by-reference], c) capture inventory information using whatever native tag
structure there is, noting that some tag types might not be consumable, but
ensuring that signatures and the like are correctly conveyed
[by-non-normalized-value]. The requesting party can indicate which of these
return methods it would like.

Any thoughts about any of these?

Thanks,
Charles

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Schmidt, Charles
> M.
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 2:35 PM
> To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>;
> tony@yaanatech.com; Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome
> Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
as
> a SACM WG document
> 
> > If there's going to be a consistent data model I don't see I reason why
> > there should be any constraint on what endpoint tag types are supported.
> 
> I'm afraid you have lost me here. My understanding was that you were
> arguing
> that SWID M&A should support tag types other than the ISO SWID tags. As I
> understand the term, ISO SWID 2015 defines a data model, and then
> different
> tag formats (XML, CBOR, JSON) would all be data formats of that common
> data
> model.  But if we have completely different tag types, (for example, SWID
> 2015 tags and RPM records), I'm confused how there could be a common
> data
> model that both represent. In other words, when you argued for a common
> data
> model, to me this implicitly meant we needed to curtail the types of tags
> supported to only those that could serialize that common data model.
> 
> Sorry if I am being slow here, but could you clarify how you see the tag
> types relating to this common data model?
> 
> Thanks,
> Charles
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 1:45 PM
> > To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; tony@yaanatech.com;
> > Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
> > <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> > Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
> > Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of
draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
> as
> > a SACM WG document
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/6/2016 11:36 AM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > I wanted to do a quick loop back to the original question of this
> thread,
> > > namely the adoption of
> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as
a
> > SACM
> > > working group document. This and other threads have indicated that
> there
> > is
> > > some desire to evolve the document to address certain concerns, many
> of
> > > which I hope to address in the next draft.
> > >
> > > With the understanding that adoption as a working group draft does not
> in
> > > any way end the discussion or evolution of this draft, are there any
> other
> > > thoughts regarding adoption?
> > >
> > > Gunnar/Tony - you both raised concerns about adoption due to the
> > document
> > > being exclusively focused on ISO SWID tags, but since then there
appears
> > to
> > > be agreement to expand to other possible tag types (with the caveat
that
> > > there also appears to be consensus that this list of tags should be
> > > constrained so that endpoints are sending content using a consistent
> data
> > > model). Does this alteration address you concerns? If so, does that
> change
> > > your feelings on adoption?
> >
> > If there's going to be a consistent data model I don't see I reason why
> > there should be any constraint on what endpoint tag types are supported.
> >
> > I'd prefer to see that translation happen as soon in the lifecycle of
> > the data as possible, but we'll see what consensus is on that. For
> > reasons already stated, if that translation is done centrally then I
> > don't SACM adoption extending much beyond a few large vendors that put
> > out, effectively, their own stovepipes.
> >
> >
> > --gun
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Charles
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
> > >> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:51 PM
> > >> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>;
> tony@yaanatech.com;
> > >> Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
> > >> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> > >> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of
> draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
> > > as
> > >> a SACM WG document
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Inline...
> > >>
> > >> On 5/19/2016 1:27 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> > >>> Tony/Gunnar,
> > >>>
> > >>> I agree. Details below.
> > >>>
> > >>>> 	Two questions not asked: who might do the
> > >>>> 	work to bridge the gap with the gazillion other
> > >>>> 	software identifier approaches out there, and
> > >>>> 	whether some form of out-of-band SWID capability
> > >>>> 	(as is used with may of the other SWID mechanisms)
> > >>>> 	cannot be included.  For a lot of IoT stuff, it is
> > >>>> 	essential.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This right here is an excellent point.  There are other software ID
> > >>> mechanisms
> > >>>> out there and SWID is not going to cover everything for which there
> is
> > > an
> > >>>> alternative.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Because this proposal is so SWID-specific, I can't get behind it.
> > >>> However, if it
> > >>>> was genericized to allow for use of current and possible future
> tagging
> > >>>> mechanisms, I could certainly support that.
> > >>> This makes sense. Even those strongly attached to the use of SWID
> tags
> > >> would
> > >>> like to make sure that this specification can handle future
revisions
> of
> > > the
> > >>> ISO SWID specification, and as you both note, there are other
> structures
> > >> out
> > >>> there which people might wish to use.
> > >>>
> > >>> Basically, it seems to me that we want to support a common, core set
> of
> > >>> functionality related to inventory and inventory events, but that we
> > > want
> > >> to
> > >>> have some flexibility in the data (I'll call these "records") used
to
> > > convey
> > >>> that information to a policy server. Are we in agreement on this? (I
> > > don't
> > >>> think we want the nature of what one can infer from a report to
> change
> > >> based
> > >>> on the record structure used to convey that report.)
> > >>>
> > >>> Given this, the following are the core capabilities of SWID M&A for
> > >>> reporting records as I see them:
> > >>> 1) Records need to be associated with specific instances of a
specific
> > >>> software product and version thereof.
> > >>> --- If the same version of the same product is installed multiple
> times,
> > >>> there will need to be multiple records naming the same product and
> > >> version -
> > >>> one associated with each actual installation. (We need to convey
that
> a
> > >>> given product+version is installed "exactly X times" rather than "at
> > > least
> > >>> one instance".)
> > >>> --- Changes to a software product need to result in a change in the
> > >>> associated record. (The record needs to distinguish between AcmeApp
> > >> v1.2.3
> > >>> and AcmeApp v1.2.4, since this is critical to multiple consumers of
> this
> > >>> data.)
> > >>> --- Records associated with a product+version need to be consistent
> > over
> > >>> time and across endpoints. (There needs to be an easy way for the
> > SWID-
> > >> PV to
> > >>> say "this is the same product+version" across different reports and
> > >> between
> > >>> reports from different machines.)
> > >>> 2) If the record is more than about 200 bytes, there needs to be a
> > > concise
> > >>> identifier for this record. In SWID tags, this is created by the
> > > combination
> > >>> of the TagCreatorRegID and the TagID fields. (Concise identifiers
are
> > > used
> > >>> in multiple places in SWID M&A to convey information without
bloating
> > >>> messages.)
> > >> I tried to find fault, but I think as a basic core set, this is good
> > >> coverage.
> > >>
> > >> In ongoing practice there are undoubtedly going to be more
capabilities
> > >> desired for other use cases, and some tagging solutions will have
> useful
> > >> capabilities that are not available in others. Extensibility is
> assumed.
> > >>
> > >> I think it's also a necessity that a common data model be used
> > >> regardless of the tag type/source.  For hopefully obvious reasons.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Do you (or anyone) have any questions or concerns about any of these
> > >> core
> > >>> capabilities, or have any others to add? I think all of the other
SWID
> > > M&A
> > >>> capabilities (monitoring for changes, tracking and ordering of
events,
> > >>> subscriptions, processing targeted requests, etc.) are fairly
neutral
> > > with
> > >>> regard to the record structure used in messages assuming the two
> > >>> requirements above are met. Let me know if you disagree about that.
> > >>>
> > >>> Capabilities do not need to be inherent in the record itself. (For
> > > example,
> > >>> there is nothing in a SWID tag that allows one to distinguish
between
> > >>> multiple installations of a single product.) There just needs to be
a
> > >>> reliable, deterministic mechanism by which these capabilities can be
> met
> > >>> while using the record.
> > >>>
> > >>> I will work on putting together some proposals on how different
> record
> > >> types
> > >>> can be clearly labeled in SWID M&A messages so recipients can know
> the
> > >> type
> > >>> of content they are getting prior to parsing. (Probably want a way
for
> > >>> SWID-PVs to express a preference too... need to think about this.)
> While
> > > I
> > >>> am doing that, if you have a favorite non-ISO-SWID record that you
> > would
> > >>> like to see supported, could you put together any necessary
> > requirements
> > >>> that would be needed to ensure it aligns with the core capabilities
> > >>> described above? I think that would be very useful for fleshing out
> this
> > >>> flexibility.
> > >>>
> > >>> I am interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks for the input.
> > >>>
> > >>> Charles


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From: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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To: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
References: <17198AFF-DF5A-46BC-B84A-2AAF1717BD90@isoc.org> <e8798c66-2ac8-7b24-4ab3-d28b4868c94a@yaanatech.com> <BN1PR03MB1231A9F5A4EE487623E5C82AF490@BN1PR03MB123.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <0aa7684f-5a47-c00a-4b5b-e19484dd718a@yaanatech.com> <CAA=AuEfepDpmQF7TOLe2nvkgEPU9LD49Fc8bSvUCW+F_6yYy5A@mail.gmail.com> <BN1PR03MB1236FEF6EE3127323F9294AAF490@BN1PR03MB123.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <SN1PR09MB0990AD2634A81C9A7128D120AB490@SN1PR09MB0990.namprd09.prod.outlook.com> <0418b8dc-9fd8-f8d2-3461-ce8e019fe22a@yaanatech.com> <8eb2719e-6baa-013a-daf5-5f2b269a75c1@ThreatGuard.com> <SN1PR09MB09900FB2B7AE3C48324891A2AB4A0@SN1PR09MB0990.namprd09.prod.outlook.com> <c45f888a-e2fd-d3ff-0397-f713a79be2db@ThreatGuard.com> <SN1PR09MB0990C08A95F57D0176C8511BAB5C0@SN1PR09MB0990.namprd09.prod.outlook.com> <6217ee86-3479-9476-d76c-d8d74af9175b@ThreatGuard.com> <MLQM-20160606155125843-5125@mlite.mitre.org> <SN1PR09MB099063D596F3ACF1C49EDF7AAB5D0@SN1PR09MB0990.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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On 6/7/2016 2:44 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> Ok - Gunnar has set me straight.
>
> Put in terms for the easily confused (such as myself): Gunnar was advocating
> that the network messages used to convey tag data via SWID M&A employ a
> standard data model so that recipients always see the same structure in the
> messages and can rely on being able to parse it. With that in mind, many tag
> types could be converted to this common data model used in the messages,
> thus many tag types should be collected by the Posture Collector as
> potential input. Gunnar - did I get it right?

Sounds like it.  But then, I thought we were understanding each other 
the last time.

...

>
> In fact, this is largely what the SWID M&A specification does now. The ISO
> SWID 2015 and ISO SWID 2009 specifications form a data model for SWID M&A
> messages conveying tag information. However, the specification notes that
> the SWID tag collection that is conveyed in these messages could come from
> many "sources", some of which might be translated from different record
> types. (E.g., potentially converted from package manager records or third
> party inventory tool results.)

The same, I'm sure, can be said about the other tag types:  that is, 
their data models can be used to represent data from other "sources."

Taken as a given that inventing yet another software tag data model is a 
non-starter, the question then is which of the various existing models 
would be the most useful?

Most useful, in this case, would to me involve three primary factors:

1) The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent the 
other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into fields 
that weren't really meant for that type of data).

2) Capable of being easily extended to cover gaps as necessary. Possibly 
as a fork and not part of its normal maintenance.

3) Readily accessible (for example, the spec is not behind a paywall).


>
> That said, based on some of the conversations that have occurred in meetings
> and on list, I think there are some open questions here:
> 1) Currently SWID M&A uses the ISO SWID specifications as a data model.
> Various parties have weighed in on the pros and cons of ISO SWID tags.
> Looking from a strictly data-model perspective, what structure makes sense
> for conveying tag/inventory data as the standard data model in these
> messages. Personally, I would argue that the core should probably be an
> existing structure - I don't see any call to invent yet another way to
> describe software.
>
> 2) As I wrote it, one of the change proposals presented to the group was
> effectively to allow SWID M&A to convey any type of tag natively and simply
> include a field to identify the type of tag contained in the message. This
> would allow SWID M&A to convey inventory information via an unlimited number
> of data models. What do people think about this given the recent
> discussions? Gunnar, I take it you would be against this change and would
> prefer a fixed tag format (a.k.a. data model) in the SWID M&A messages
> themselves. Other thoughts?

Yup, I'm all for a single common tag format for SACM.  But it also needs 
to be one that can be extended to accommodate future needs -- for 
instance, adding in data items available in other tag types that the 
common model does not have an allowance for.

Other options:

i.  Minimize the amount of data items covered by the common data model 
and include the original tag as an "attachment," thus preserving all 
data that it represents.

ii.  We allow that an OOB mechanism can exist, providing enough 
information with the common tag such that the original can be retrieved 
if that's what the processor really needs.


>
> 3) With regard to conversion, I will note that some tag types (e.g., ISO
> SWID tags) can be cryptographically signed. Obviously, any conversion is
> going to lose those signatures. Do people think that being able to discern
> correctly signed tags from other tags would be of operational significance?
> If so, maybe the solution would be three types of messages: a) capture
> inventory information using a single, standard data model to which all
> source tags are converted [by-normalized-value], b) capture inventory
> information using identifiers that can be used to reference tag structures
> [by-reference], c) capture inventory information using whatever native tag
> structure there is, noting that some tag types might not be consumable, but
> ensuring that signatures and the like are correctly conveyed
> [by-non-normalized-value]. The requesting party can indicate which of these
> return methods it would like.
>
> Any thoughts about any of these?
>
> Thanks,
> Charles
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Schmidt, Charles
>> M.
>> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 2:35 PM
>> To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>;
>> tony@yaanatech.com; Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome
>> Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
> as
>> a SACM WG document
>>
>>> If there's going to be a consistent data model I don't see I reason why
>>> there should be any constraint on what endpoint tag types are supported.
>> I'm afraid you have lost me here. My understanding was that you were
>> arguing
>> that SWID M&A should support tag types other than the ISO SWID tags. As I
>> understand the term, ISO SWID 2015 defines a data model, and then
>> different
>> tag formats (XML, CBOR, JSON) would all be data formats of that common
>> data
>> model.  But if we have completely different tag types, (for example, SWID
>> 2015 tags and RPM records), I'm confused how there could be a common
>> data
>> model that both represent. In other words, when you argued for a common
>> data
>> model, to me this implicitly meant we needed to curtail the types of tags
>> supported to only those that could serialize that common data model.
>>
>> Sorry if I am being slow here, but could you clarify how you see the tag
>> types relating to this common data model?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Charles
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 1:45 PM
>>> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>; tony@yaanatech.com;
>>> Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
>>> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of
> draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
>> as
>>> a SACM WG document
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/6/2016 11:36 AM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to do a quick loop back to the original question of this
>> thread,
>>>> namely the adoption of
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as
> a
>>> SACM
>>>> working group document. This and other threads have indicated that
>> there
>>> is
>>>> some desire to evolve the document to address certain concerns, many
>> of
>>>> which I hope to address in the next draft.
>>>>
>>>> With the understanding that adoption as a working group draft does not
>> in
>>>> any way end the discussion or evolution of this draft, are there any
>> other
>>>> thoughts regarding adoption?
>>>>
>>>> Gunnar/Tony - you both raised concerns about adoption due to the
>>> document
>>>> being exclusively focused on ISO SWID tags, but since then there
> appears
>>> to
>>>> be agreement to expand to other possible tag types (with the caveat
> that
>>>> there also appears to be consensus that this list of tags should be
>>>> constrained so that endpoints are sending content using a consistent
>> data
>>>> model). Does this alteration address you concerns? If so, does that
>> change
>>>> your feelings on adoption?
>>> If there's going to be a consistent data model I don't see I reason why
>>> there should be any constraint on what endpoint tag types are supported.
>>>
>>> I'd prefer to see that translation happen as soon in the lifecycle of
>>> the data as possible, but we'll see what consensus is on that. For
>>> reasons already stated, if that translation is done centrally then I
>>> don't SACM adoption extending much beyond a few large vendors that put
>>> out, effectively, their own stovepipes.
>>>
>>>
>>> --gun
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Gunnar Engelbach [mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 1:51 PM
>>>>> To: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>;
>> tony@yaanatech.com;
>>>>> Michael Godsey <mgodsey@microsoft.com>; Jerome Athias
>>>>> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of
>> draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
>>>> as
>>>>> a SACM WG document
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Inline...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/19/2016 1:27 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
>>>>>> Tony/Gunnar,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree. Details below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 	Two questions not asked: who might do the
>>>>>>> 	work to bridge the gap with the gazillion other
>>>>>>> 	software identifier approaches out there, and
>>>>>>> 	whether some form of out-of-band SWID capability
>>>>>>> 	(as is used with may of the other SWID mechanisms)
>>>>>>> 	cannot be included.  For a lot of IoT stuff, it is
>>>>>>> 	essential.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This right here is an excellent point.  There are other software ID
>>>>>> mechanisms
>>>>>>> out there and SWID is not going to cover everything for which there
>> is
>>>> an
>>>>>>> alternative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because this proposal is so SWID-specific, I can't get behind it.
>>>>>> However, if it
>>>>>>> was genericized to allow for use of current and possible future
>> tagging
>>>>>>> mechanisms, I could certainly support that.
>>>>>> This makes sense. Even those strongly attached to the use of SWID
>> tags
>>>>> would
>>>>>> like to make sure that this specification can handle future
> revisions
>> of
>>>> the
>>>>>> ISO SWID specification, and as you both note, there are other
>> structures
>>>>> out
>>>>>> there which people might wish to use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically, it seems to me that we want to support a common, core set
>> of
>>>>>> functionality related to inventory and inventory events, but that we
>>>> want
>>>>> to
>>>>>> have some flexibility in the data (I'll call these "records") used
> to
>>>> convey
>>>>>> that information to a policy server. Are we in agreement on this? (I
>>>> don't
>>>>>> think we want the nature of what one can infer from a report to
>> change
>>>>> based
>>>>>> on the record structure used to convey that report.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given this, the following are the core capabilities of SWID M&A for
>>>>>> reporting records as I see them:
>>>>>> 1) Records need to be associated with specific instances of a
> specific
>>>>>> software product and version thereof.
>>>>>> --- If the same version of the same product is installed multiple
>> times,
>>>>>> there will need to be multiple records naming the same product and
>>>>> version -
>>>>>> one associated with each actual installation. (We need to convey
> that
>> a
>>>>>> given product+version is installed "exactly X times" rather than "at
>>>> least
>>>>>> one instance".)
>>>>>> --- Changes to a software product need to result in a change in the
>>>>>> associated record. (The record needs to distinguish between AcmeApp
>>>>> v1.2.3
>>>>>> and AcmeApp v1.2.4, since this is critical to multiple consumers of
>> this
>>>>>> data.)
>>>>>> --- Records associated with a product+version need to be consistent
>>> over
>>>>>> time and across endpoints. (There needs to be an easy way for the
>>> SWID-
>>>>> PV to
>>>>>> say "this is the same product+version" across different reports and
>>>>> between
>>>>>> reports from different machines.)
>>>>>> 2) If the record is more than about 200 bytes, there needs to be a
>>>> concise
>>>>>> identifier for this record. In SWID tags, this is created by the
>>>> combination
>>>>>> of the TagCreatorRegID and the TagID fields. (Concise identifiers
> are
>>>> used
>>>>>> in multiple places in SWID M&A to convey information without
> bloating
>>>>>> messages.)
>>>>> I tried to find fault, but I think as a basic core set, this is good
>>>>> coverage.
>>>>>
>>>>> In ongoing practice there are undoubtedly going to be more
> capabilities
>>>>> desired for other use cases, and some tagging solutions will have
>> useful
>>>>> capabilities that are not available in others. Extensibility is
>> assumed.
>>>>> I think it's also a necessity that a common data model be used
>>>>> regardless of the tag type/source.  For hopefully obvious reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you (or anyone) have any questions or concerns about any of these
>>>>> core
>>>>>> capabilities, or have any others to add? I think all of the other
> SWID
>>>> M&A
>>>>>> capabilities (monitoring for changes, tracking and ordering of
> events,
>>>>>> subscriptions, processing targeted requests, etc.) are fairly
> neutral
>>>> with
>>>>>> regard to the record structure used in messages assuming the two
>>>>>> requirements above are met. Let me know if you disagree about that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Capabilities do not need to be inherent in the record itself. (For
>>>> example,
>>>>>> there is nothing in a SWID tag that allows one to distinguish
> between
>>>>>> multiple installations of a single product.) There just needs to be
> a
>>>>>> reliable, deterministic mechanism by which these capabilities can be
>> met
>>>>>> while using the record.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will work on putting together some proposals on how different
>> record
>>>>> types
>>>>>> can be clearly labeled in SWID M&A messages so recipients can know
>> the
>>>>> type
>>>>>> of content they are getting prior to parsing. (Probably want a way
> for
>>>>>> SWID-PVs to express a preference too... need to think about this.)
>> While
>>>> I
>>>>>> am doing that, if you have a favorite non-ISO-SWID record that you
>>> would
>>>>>> like to see supported, could you put together any necessary
>>> requirements
>>>>>> that would be needed to ensure it aligns with the core capabilities
>>>>>> described above? I think that would be very useful for fleshing out
>> this
>>>>>> flexibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks for the input.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles


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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44

-- Commit Summary --

  * includes proposed changes for IM #41. updates WG IM to standards track instead of informational #29. removes text about SACM components which should be in the architecture #33.
  * fixed some formatting warnings.

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-sacm-information-model.xml (1674)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44.patch
https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44'>https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>includes proposed changes for IM #41. updates WG IM to standards track instead of informational #29. removes text about SACM components which should be in the architecture #33.</li>
  <li>fixed some formatting warnings.</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-sacm-information-model.xml</a>
    (1674)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44.patch'>https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44.diff'>https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Merged #44.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/pull/44" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/44" data-id="159243964" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#44</a>.</p>

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring of the IETF.

        Title           : SACM Information Model
        Authors         : David Waltermire
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                          Clifford Kahn
                          Lisa Lorenzin
                          Michael Cokus
                          Daniel Haynes
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sacm-information-model-05.txt
	Pages           : 128
	Date            : 2016-06-08

Abstract:
   This document defines the information elements that are transported
   between SACM components and their interconnected relationships.  The
   primary purpose of the Secure Automation and Continuous Monitoring
   (SACM) Information Model is to ensure the interoperability of
   corresponding SACM data models and addresses the use cases defined by
   SACM.  The information elements and corresponding types are
   maintained as the IANA "SACM Information Elements" registry.


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        Title           : SWID Message and Attributes for PA-TNC
        Authors         : Chris Coffin
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                          Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay
	Filename        : draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc-01.txt
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	Date            : 2016-06-08

Abstract:
   This document specifies the SWID Message and Attributes for PA-TNC.
   It extends the PA-TNC specification [RFC5792] by providing specific
   attributes and message exchanges to allow endpoints to report their
   software inventory information to a NEA server (as described in
   [RFC5209]) using SWID tags [SWID].


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        Title           : SACM Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
        Authors         : Christopher Coffin
                          Brant Cheikes
                          Charles Schmidt
                          Daniel Haynes
                          Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay
                          David Waltermire
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt
	Pages           : 23
	Date            : 2016-06-08

Abstract:
   This document describes an automated enterprise vulnerability
   assessment scenario aligned with the SACM Use Cases.  The scenario
   assumes the existence of an endpoint management capability and begins
   with an enterprise ingesting vulnerability description information.
   Endpoints are assessed against the vulnerability description
   information based a combination of examining known endpoint
   characterization information and collected endpoint information.


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Subject: [sacm] Virtual Interim Agenda Items
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All:

There have been three draft updates [1][2][3].  Our next virtual interim =
is coming up on Wednesday [4].  I=E2=80=99d like to propose the =
following specific agenda:

* Working group status - chairs, 10 minutes or less
* Vulnerability assessment open issues - Danny Haynes, 20 minutes
* Information model open issues - Danny Haynes, 40 minutes
* SWID M&A open issues - Charles Schmidt, 40 minutes
* Any other business - open, 10 minutes

The above is a proposed agenda, which is open to bashing.  I assigned =
times for the vulnerability assessment and information model discussions =
based on the number of open issues against each WG draft in GitHub [5].  =
I think we might need a bit of time to address any remaining concerns =
with respect to the SWID M&A draft, which is still being considered for =
adoption (which could change by the time Wednesday gets here).

If you have any suggestions to make on this proposed agenda, please =
opine.

Finally, we will need at least one note taker, and it would be best if =
one or more folks volunteered before the meeting starts.

Kind regards,

Adam


[1] Information Model - =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/>
[2] Vulnerability Scenario - =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario/>
[3] SWID M&A - =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/>
[4] June virtual interim announcement - =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/NDLhlF38s1IwA3AgxNo05D3MSBI =
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/NDLhlF38s1IwA3AgxNo05D3MSBI>
[5] https://github.com/sacmwg <https://github.com/sacmwg>



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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">All:<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There =
have been three draft updates [1][2][3]. &nbsp;Our next virtual interim =
is coming up on Wednesday [4]. &nbsp;I=E2=80=99d like to propose the =
following specific agenda:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">* Working group status - chairs, 10 minutes or less</div><div =
class=3D"">* Vulnerability assessment open issues - Danny Haynes, 20 =
minutes&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">* Information model open issues - =
Danny Haynes, 40 minutes</div><div class=3D"">* SWID M&amp;A open issues =
- Charles Schmidt, 40 minutes</div><div class=3D"">* Any other business =
- open, 10 minutes</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The above is a proposed agenda, which is open to bashing. =
&nbsp;I assigned times for the vulnerability assessment and information =
model discussions based on the number of open issues against each WG =
draft in GitHub [5]. &nbsp;I think we might need a bit of time to =
address any remaining concerns with respect to the SWID M&amp;A draft, =
which is still being considered for adoption (which could change by the =
time Wednesday gets here).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">If you have any suggestions to make on this proposed agenda, =
please opine.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Finally, we will need at least one note taker, and it would =
be best if one or more folks volunteered before the meeting =
starts.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Kind =
regards,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Adam</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">[1] Information Model =
-&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model=
/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-mo=
del/</a></div><div class=3D"">[2] Vulnerability Scenario -&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario/=
</a></div><div class=3D"">[3] SWID M&amp;A -&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-pat=
nc/</a></div><div class=3D"">[4] June virtual interim announcement =
-&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/NDLhlF38s1IwA3AgxNo05D3=
MSBI" =
class=3D"">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/NDLhlF38s1IwA3AgxNo0=
5D3MSBI</a></div><div class=3D"">[5]&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg</a>&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [sacm] [sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model] Should SACM Components be defined in the IM? (#33)
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Closed #33.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/33" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/33" data-id="114529853" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#33</a>.</p>

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Closed #2.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/2" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/2" data-id="59961034" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#2</a>.</p>

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Closed #16.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/16" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/16" data-id="157694964" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#16</a>.</p>

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Closed #14.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/14" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/14" data-id="157693782" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#14</a>.</p>

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Addressed in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt.  A tracker has also been added for the IM (https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/43).

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<p>Addressed in <a href="https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt</a>.  A tracker has also been added for the IM (<a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/43" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/43" data-id="157743732" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model#43</a>).</p>

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Based on mailing list feedback, no changes were needed here.

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<p>Based on mailing list feedback, no changes were needed here.</p>

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Addressed in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt

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<p>Addressed in <a href="https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt</a></p>

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Closed #13.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/13" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/13" data-id="157693599" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#13</a>.</p>

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Addressed in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt.

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<p>Addressed in <a href="https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt</a>.</p>

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Closed #15.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/15" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/15" data-id="157694037" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#15</a>.</p>

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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be considered for the WG IM
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/zkVuiqv3VWmobK6IUbp0oUebJlM>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be considered for the WG IM
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Just a heads up, these changes have been posted in -05 which can be found a=
t the following link.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/

Thanks,

Danny

From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 12:02 PM
To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com>; sacm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM=
 to be considered for the WG IM

So far, I haven't heard feedback on any of these changes.  Do they all seem=
 reasonable?

Most are straight forward, but, I know the group wanted to discuss SACM sta=
tements and content-element structures more (for example).  I am fine givin=
g another day or two to review the changes if needed, but, I also need to h=
ave all the changes in an updated draft for June 8th (next Wednesday) :).

If you have any thoughts on these changes, please bring them up as soon as =
possible so we can have any questions/issues resolved by Friday of this wee=
k.

Thanks,

Danny

From: Haynes, Dan
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 8:20 AM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>; Romascanu, D=
an (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com<mailto:dromasca@avaya.com>>; sacm@ietf.org<mai=
lto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be =
considered for the WG IM

Just an update on this. I committed the proposed changes regarding the merg=
er in a branch in the IM GitHub repository [1].

For your convenience, I also have attached a updated text version so you ca=
n diff it against the version up on the IETF site [2].

A couple of things to note about this draft (in addition to the changes lis=
ted earlier in this thread):


*         Includes text for SACM Statements and SACM Content-Elements. Ther=
e was discussion around whether or not this was needed at the Virtual Inter=
im Meeting [3]. Please review and provide feedback.

*         Contains change from "Object" to "Subject". There is ongoing disc=
ussion here [4].

*         Does not include the IEs from the I-D IM. These will be carried o=
ver once the IPFIX syntax is updated as long as there are no objections to =
the proposed IEs.  So far, we haven't heard any, but, the thread is here [5=
] in case you want to provide any feedback.

*         The WG IM is now "standards track" instead of "informational". I =
had forgotten to update that in the XML version of the I-D when we made the=
 decision last year [6].

*         Removes text about SACM Components [7]. This was discussed here [=
8].

*         The updated IPFIX syntax is not included in this revision.

As a reminder, we have put a deadline of May 31st for review and feedback s=
o that we can have a revised draft for June 8th which is a week before the =
next virtual interim meting (June 15th).

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/blob/propos=
ed-im-merger-changes/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model.xml
[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/
[3] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg04043.html
[4] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg04014.html
[5] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03961.html
[6] https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/29
[7] https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/33
[8] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03955.html


From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 7:42 AM
To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com<mailto:dromasca@avaya.com>>; s=
acm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM=
 to be considered for the WG IM

Hi Dan,

That seems like a reasonable request.  I will take the current WG IM and in=
tegrate the proposed changes from the I-D IM into it and send it out on thi=
s thread so everyone can more easily review the changes.

Thanks,

Danny

From: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [mailto:dromasca@avaya.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 6:29 AM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>; sacm@ietf.or=
g<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to be =
considered for the WG IM

Hi,

I do not know if I am the only one, but I have difficulties visualizing the=
 proposed changes as a 'dry' intellectual exercise.

I suspect that you have a work-in-progress version that includes these chan=
ges. Why do not you post it together with the Log of Changes, and we can mo=
re easily see and debate what we like or do not like. Any I-D is anyway w-i=
-p.

Regards,

Dan


From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:55 PM
To: sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM to =
be considered for the WG IM

Hi Everyone,

More recently, we have continued our I-D and WG IM merger work in Henk's Gi=
tHub repository [1] for easier collaboration and in case anyone wants to fo=
llow along with our progress :).

With that said, Henk, Nancy, Mike, and I have spent some more time merging =
the text between the I-D IM [1] and the WG IM [2] and would like to make so=
me additional proposals.


1.       Replace the text in the beginning of Section 3 of the WG IM with t=
he text from Section "Structure of Information Elements" of the I-D IM (not=
e: we plan to maintain the current IPFIX syntax sections although it will b=
e updated in the near future to address some of the concerns Jim raised)



2.       Insert Sections "SACM Content Elements" and "SACM Statements" of t=
he I-D IM into Section 3 of the WG IM as subsections



3.       Replace Section 3.4 of the WG IM with Section "Relationships" in t=
he I-D IM


4.       Insert Section "Events" of the I-D IM into the Section 3 of the WG=
 IM as a subsection. Remove Section 5.4.5 of the WG IM.

Please review and provide any feedback by Tuesday May 31st.  Let me know if=
 you have any questions.

As a side note, we plan to briefly discuss SACM statements, content element=
s, relationships, events, and categories at tomorrow's virtual interim meet=
ing.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://github.com/henkbirkholz/sacmim/blob/master/draft-camwinget-sacm=
-information-model-01.md<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps=
-3A__github.com_henkbirkholz_sacmim_blob_master_draft-2Dcamwinget-2Dsacm-2D=
information-2Dmodel-2D01.md&d=3DCwQFAg&c=3DBFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&r=3DI4dzG=
xR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&m=3D9ZyV_bkMpYQnoCCKlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC=
1ouRXv2B1M4&s=3D3SjJWUS1QN6nPl-TW5joJfntnd8o2Tmd6VSVa91Fe5k&e=3D>
[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/<htt=
ps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_do=
c_draft-2Dietf-2Dsacm-2Dinformation-2Dmodel_&d=3DCwQFAg&c=3DBFpWQw8bsuKpl1S=
giZH64Q&r=3DI4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&m=3D9ZyV_bkMpYQnoCC=
KlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC1ouRXv2B1M4&s=3DJREucFbqo4Xgn1ObI71zkq0rDNAJnjOWaM5oO-S93g=
Y&e=3D>



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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Just a heads up, these=
 changes have been posted in -05 which can be found at the following link.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><br>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] <b>=
On Behalf Of
</b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 01, 2016 12:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;dromasca@avaya.com&gt;; sacm@ietf.org<b=
r>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the=
 I-D IM to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So far, I haven&#8217;=
t heard feedback on any of these changes.&nbsp; Do they all seem reasonable=
?&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Most are straight forw=
ard, but, I know the group wanted to discuss SACM statements and content-el=
ement structures more (for example).&nbsp; I am fine giving another day or =
two to review the changes if needed, but,
 I also need to have all the changes in an updated draft for June 8<sup>th<=
/sup> (next Wednesday)
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D">.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">If you have any though=
ts on these changes, please bring them up as soon as possible so we can hav=
e any questions/issues resolved by Friday of this week.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Danny<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Haynes, Dan <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016 8:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mit=
re.org</a>&gt;; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dromasca@avaya.c=
om">dromasca@avaya.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM=
 to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Just an update on this=
. I committed the proposed changes regarding the merger in a branch in the =
IM GitHub repository [1].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">For your convenience, =
I also have attached a updated text version so you can diff it against the =
version up on the IETF site [2].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">A couple of things to =
note about this draft (in addition to the changes listed earlier in this th=
read):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Includes text =
for SACM Statements and SACM Content-Elements. There was discussion around =
whether or not this was needed at the Virtual Interim Meeting [3]. Please r=
eview and provide feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Contains chang=
e from &#8220;Object&#8221; to &#8220;Subject&#8221;. There is ongoing disc=
ussion here [4].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Does not inclu=
de the IEs from the I-D IM. These will be carried over once the IPFIX synta=
x is updated as long as there are no objections to the proposed IEs.&nbsp; =
So far, we haven&#8217;t heard any, but, the
 thread is here [5] in case you want to provide any feedback.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">The WG IM is n=
ow &#8220;standards track&#8221; instead of &#8220;informational&#8221;. I =
had forgotten to update that in the XML version of the I-D when we made the=
 decision last year [6].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Removes text a=
bout SACM Components [7]. This was discussed here [8].<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#1F4E7=
9"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">The updated IP=
FIX syntax is not included in this revision.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">As a reminder, we have=
 put a deadline of May 31<sup>st</sup> for review and feedback so that we c=
an have a revised draft for June 8<sup>th</sup> which is a week before the =
next virtual interim meting (June 15<sup>th</sup>).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Let me know if you hav=
e any questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[1] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-inf=
ormation-model/blob/proposed-im-merger-changes/draft-ietf-sacm-information-=
model.xml"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ie=
tf-sacm-information-model/blob/proposed-im-merger-changes/draft-ietf-sacm-i=
nformation-model.xml</span></a></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[2] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-s=
acm-information-model/"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/</span></a></span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[3] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg04043.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg04043.html</span></a></span><span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[4] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg04014.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg04014.html</span></a></span><span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[5] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg03961.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg03961.html</span></a></span><span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[6] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-inf=
ormation-model/issues/29"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://github.com/=
sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/29</span></a></span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[7] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-inf=
ormation-model/issues/33"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">https://github.com/=
sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/issues/33</span></a></span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[8] </span><span style=
=3D"color:#1F4E79"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/cur=
rent/msg03955.html"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">http://www.ietf.org/mail-=
archive/web/sacm/current/msg03955.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 17, 2016 7:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dromasca@avaya.com">d=
romasca@avaya.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the=
 I-D IM to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Dan,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">That seems like a reas=
onable request.&nbsp; I will take the current WG IM and integrate the propo=
sed changes from the I-D IM into it and send it out on this thread so every=
one can more easily review the changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [<a href=3D"mailto=
:dromasca@avaya.com">mailto:dromasca@avaya.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 17, 2016 6:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mit=
re.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D IM=
 to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not know if I am =
the only one, but I have difficulties visualizing the proposed changes as a=
 &#8216;dry&#8217; intellectual exercise.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I suspect that you hav=
e a work-in-progress version that includes these changes. Why do not you po=
st it together with the Log of Changes, and we can more easily see and deba=
te what we like or do not like. Any
 I-D is anyway w-i-p. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dan<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bou=
nces@ietf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 16, 2016 9:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sacm] FOR REVIEW: IM Merge - Additional changes in the I-D=
 IM to be considered for the WG IM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Everyone, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">More recently, we have continued our I-D and WG IM m=
erger work in Henk&#8217;s GitHub repository [1] for easier collaboration a=
nd in case anyone wants to follow along with our progress :).<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With that said, Henk, Nancy, Mike, and I have spent =
some more time merging the text between the I-D IM [1] and the WG IM [2] an=
d would like to make some additional proposals.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">1.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Replace the text in the beginning of Section 3 of the WG IM with the=
 text from Section &#8220;Structure of Information Elements&#8221; of the I=
-D IM (note: we plan to maintain the current IPFIX syntax sections although=
 it will be updated in the near future to address
 some of the concerns Jim raised)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">2.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Insert Sections &#8220;SACM Content Elements&#8221; and &#8220;SACM =
Statements&#8221; of the I-D IM into Section 3 of the WG IM as subsections<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">3.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Replace Section 3.4 of the WG IM with Section &#8220;Relationships&#=
8221; in the I-D IM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in">4.<span style=3D=
"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Insert Section &#8220;Events&#8221; of the I-D IM into the Section 3=
 of the WG IM as a subsection. Remove Section 5.4.5 of the WG IM.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please review and provide any feedback by Tuesday Ma=
y 31st.&nbsp; Let me know if you have any questions.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As a side note, we plan to briefly discuss SACM stat=
ements, content elements, relationships, events, and categories at tomorrow=
&#8217;s virtual interim meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/=
url?u=3Dhttps-3A__github.com_henkbirkholz_sacmim_blob_master_draft-2Dcamwin=
get-2Dsacm-2Dinformation-2Dmodel-2D01.md&amp;d=3DCwQFAg&amp;c=3DBFpWQw8bsuK=
pl1SgiZH64Q&amp;r=3DI4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&amp;m=3D9Zy=
V_bkMpYQnoCCKlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC1ouRXv2B1M4&amp;s=3D3SjJWUS1QN6nPl-TW5joJfntnd=
8o2Tmd6VSVa91Fe5k&amp;e=3D">
https://github.com/henkbirkholz/sacmim/blob/master/draft-camwinget-sacm-inf=
ormation-model-01.md</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[2]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n><a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatra=
cker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dsacm-2Dinformation-2Dmodel_&amp;d=3DCwQFAg=
&amp;c=3DBFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&amp;r=3DI4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvd=
rphpBsFA&amp;m=3D9ZyV_bkMpYQnoCCKlFxN_bYDtaT6wRHC1ouRXv2B1M4&amp;s=3DJREucF=
bqo4Xgn1ObI71zkq0rDNAJnjOWaM5oO-S93gY&amp;e=3D">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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We should review the appendices and include the appropriate references to them through the main body of the document.

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<p>We should review the appendices and include the appropriate references to them through the main body of the document.</p>

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Subject: [sacm] [sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario] typo Vulnerability rememdiation (#19)
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Vulnerability rememdiation
should be
Vulnerability remediation

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<p>Vulnerability rememdiation<br>
should be<br>
Vulnerability remediation</p>

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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 14:47:47 -0500
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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All:

After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the =
discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge =
that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that =
there is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no =
other solutions to the problem of software identification have been =
submitted to the working group [1].

Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in particular, =
appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles Schmidt and =
Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  We believe =
that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this draft, =
so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.

Kind regards,

Adam & Karen

[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative submissions
[2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and =
Gunnar will hold the pen.


> On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> Folks,
>=20
> As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the official =
call for adoption of =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/> as =
a SACM working group document.
>=20
> Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of this =
action to the mailing list.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Karen and Adam
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">All:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">After several on-list discussions, the =
last virtual interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for =
adoption, the chairs acknowledge that there are some key concerns with =
this draft, but also see that there is rough consensus for adoption. =
&nbsp;We additionally note that no other solutions to the problem of =
software identification have been submitted to the working group =
[1].</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Because =
the topic of software identification, and SWID in particular, appears to =
be a contentious one, we are designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar =
Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2]. &nbsp;We believe =
that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this draft, =
so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Kind regards,</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Adam &amp; =
Karen</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">[1] This =
draft adoption does not preclude future alternative =
submissions</div><div class=3D"">[2] Note that original authors will =
remain authors, but Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, =
Karen O'Donoghue &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" =
class=3D"">odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii" class=3D"">

<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
Folks,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is =
the official call for adoption of&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-pat=
nc/</a>&nbsp;as
 a SACM working group document.&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Please reply with any comments or concerns along your =
support of this action to the mailing list.&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Thanks,</div>
<div class=3D"">Karen and Adam</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">sacm =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From nobody Thu Jun  9 14:33:09 2016
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To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "<sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org>
From: Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.com>
Organization: Yaana Technologies
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Hi Adam,

A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
solutions to the problem of software identification have
been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
accomplishes.

--tony

On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
> All:
>
> After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the 
> discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge 
> that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that 
> there is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no 
> other solutions to the problem of software identification have been 
> submitted to the working group [1].
>
> Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in particular, 
> appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles Schmidt 
> and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  We 
> believe that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to 
> this draft, so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adam & Karen
>
> [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative submissions
> [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and 
> Gunnar will hold the pen.
>
>
>> On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org 
>> <mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the official 
>> call for adoption of 
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as 
>> a SACM working group document.
>>
>> Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of this 
>> action to the mailing list.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Karen and Adam
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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<html>
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      http-equiv="Content-Type">
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  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Hi Adam,<br>
    <br>
    A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage<br>
    in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other <br>
    solutions to the problem of software identification have <br>
    been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many<br>
    out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with<br>
    SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an <br>
    arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring <br>
    in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.<br>
    Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM <br>
    accomplishes.<br>
    <br>
    --tony<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:EC234EFE-95AB-444B-8A5D-782ADBD60559@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div class="">All:</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">After several on-list discussions, the last virtual
        interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for adoption,
        the chairs acknowledge that there are some key concerns with
        this draft, but also see that there is rough consensus for
        adoption.  We additionally note that no other solutions to the
        problem of software identification have been submitted to the
        working group [1].</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Because the topic of software identification, and
        SWID in particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are
        designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of
        the working group draft [2].  We believe that Charles and Gunnar
        will bring the necessary balance to this draft, so that the key
        concerns are sufficiently addressed.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Kind regards,</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Adam &amp; Karen</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future
        alternative submissions</div>
      <div class="">[2] Note that original authors will remain authors,
        but Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <br class="">
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue
            &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" class="">odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt;
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=windows-1252" class="">
            <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
              Folks,
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">As discussed during our last couple of
                meetings, this is the official call for adoption of <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/"
                  class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/</a></a> as
                a SACM working group document. </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Please reply with any comments or concerns
                along your support of this action to the mailing list. </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Thanks,</div>
              <div class="">Karen and Adam</div>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br class="">
            sacm mailing list<br class="">
            <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org"
              class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class="">
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br class="">
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br class="">
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 18:57:27 -0500
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References: <17198AFF-DF5A-46BC-B84A-2AAF1717BD90@isoc.org> <EC234EFE-95AB-444B-8A5D-782ADBD60559@gmail.com> <1c99b26c-bdac-5798-1bd9-e957b11ae4bd@yaanatech.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Tony,

This working group has, on several occasions, reached out formally to =
other standards development organizations very early on in our work, and =
I believe you are well aware of such facts.

I don=92t believe we=92re ignoring anything or being insular or making =
preposterous statements, but I am pleased to see that you like the =
adopted solution.

Kind regards,

Adam

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Adam,
>=20
> A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
> in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
> solutions to the problem of software identification have
> been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
> out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
> SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
> arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
> in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
> Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
> accomplishes.
>=20
> --tony
>=20
> On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
>> All:
>>=20
>> After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the =
discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge =
that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that =
there is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no =
other solutions to the problem of software identification have been =
submitted to the working group [1].
>>=20
>> Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in particular, =
appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles Schmidt and =
Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  We believe =
that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this draft, =
so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
>>=20
>> Kind regards,
>>=20
>> Adam & Karen
>>=20
>> [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative =
submissions
>> [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and =
Gunnar will hold the pen.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org =
<mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org> <mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org =
<mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Folks,
>>>=20
>>> As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the =
official call for adoption of =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/> as =
a SACM working group document.
>>>=20
>>> Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of =
this action to the mailing list.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> Karen and Adam
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sacm mailing list
>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org> <mailto:sacm@ietf.org =
<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>

--Apple-Mail=_61734FF9-1761-42BA-9758-7FAF89737658
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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Tony,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This working group has, on several =
occasions, reached out formally to other standards development =
organizations very early on in our work, and I believe you are well =
aware of such facts.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I don=92t believe we=92re ignoring anything or being insular =
or making preposterous statements, but I am pleased to see that you like =
the adopted solution.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Kind regards,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Adam</div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 9, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony@yaanatech.com" =
class=3D"">tony@yaanatech.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Hi Adam,</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">A good solution. &nbsp;Charles and Gunnar should =
also engage</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">in some proactive outreach. &nbsp;Simply stating =
that "no other</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">solutions to the problem of software =
identification have</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">been submitted" is preposterous when =
there are so many</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">out there. &nbsp;IMHO, one of the long-standing =
problems with</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">SACM is its institutional and participatory =
insularity in an</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">arena where so many almost identical activities =
are occurring</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">in other venues where there is far greater =
industry participation.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Ignoring them diminishes the value of =
whatever SACM</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">accomplishes.</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">--tony</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville =
wrote:</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">All:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">After several on-list discussions, the last =
virtual interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for adoption, =
the chairs acknowledge that there are some key concerns with this draft, =
but also see that there is rough consensus for adoption. &nbsp;We =
additionally note that no other solutions to the problem of software =
identification have been submitted to the working group [1].<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Because the topic of software identification, =
and SWID in particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are =
designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the =
working group draft [2]. &nbsp;We believe that Charles and Gunnar will =
bring the necessary balance to this draft, so that the key concerns are =
sufficiently addressed.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Kind regards,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Adam &amp; Karen<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative =
submissions<br class=3D"">[2] Note that original authors will remain =
authors, but Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On May =
17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" class=3D"">odonoghue@isoc.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Folks,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">As discussed during our =
last couple of meetings, this is the official call for adoption of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-pat=
nc/</a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>as a SACM =
working group document.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Please reply with =
any comments or concerns along your support of this action to the =
mailing list.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D"">Karen =
and Adam<br class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sacm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sacm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></blockquote></di=
v></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From nobody Thu Jun  9 17:05:02 2016
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To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
From: Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.com>
Organization: Yaana Technologies
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Adam,

I don't buy the "group has...reached out."   That's like
the ITU-T game of sending out "liaison statements"
to other groups asking for their reactions to
some work item.   You have to task someone to
go look at all the many pointers that have been
provided - do the research and analysis and
incorporate their solutions in what you are doing.
Try breaking out of your walls of insularity.

--tony

On 2016-06-09 7:57 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
> This working group has, on several occasions, reached out formally to=20
> other standards development organizations very early on in our work,=20
> and I believe you are well aware of such facts.
>



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    Adam,<br>
    <br>
    I don't buy the "group has...reached out."   That's like<br>
    the ITU-T game of sending out "liaison statements"<br>
    to other groups asking for their reactions to <br>
    some work item.   You have to task someone to<br>
    go look at all the many pointers that have been<br>
    provided - do the research and analysis and <br>
    incorporate their solutions in what you are doing.<br>
    Try breaking out of your walls of insularity.<br>
    <br>
    --tony<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-06-09 7:57 PM, Adam Montville
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:A4F94AE6-CCAC-41C2-8260-AA5D94521FEF@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="">This working group has, on several occasions,
        reached out formally to other standards development
        organizations very early on in our work, and I believe you are
        well aware of such facts.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature"><br>
    </div>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a 
better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I 
could use your help in identifying other good candidates and what will 
be necessary to support as many of them as possible.

What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather some 
requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is the 
best from among those that are good enough.  If any.

But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated generally, I 
really only have three:

   1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if 
necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on 
the good graces of the current owner

   2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any users)

   3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent 
the other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into 
fields that weren't really meant for that type of data)


I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free to 
chime in.  However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep 
this list the quicker we can grind through it.


--gun




On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
> Hi Adam,
>
> A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
> in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
> solutions to the problem of software identification have
> been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
> out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
> SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
> arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
> in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
> Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
> accomplishes.
>
> --tony
>
> On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
>> All:
>>
>> After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the 
>> discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs 
>> acknowledge that there are some key concerns with this draft, but 
>> also see that there is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally 
>> note that no other solutions to the problem of software 
>> identification have been submitted to the working group [1].
>>
>> Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in particular, 
>> appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles Schmidt 
>> and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  We 
>> believe that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to 
>> this draft, so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Adam & Karen
>>
>> [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative submissions
>> [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and 
>> Gunnar will hold the pen.
>>
>>
>>> On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org 
>>> <mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the 
>>> official call for adoption of 
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as 
>>> a SACM working group document.
>>>
>>> Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of 
>>> this action to the mailing list.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Karen and Adam
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sacm mailing list
>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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    <br>
    <br>
    Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a
    better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do,
    so I could use your help in identifying other good candidates and
    what will be necessary to support as many of them as possible.<br>
    <br>
    What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather
    some requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which
    is the best from among those that are good enough.  If any.<br>
    <br>
    But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated
    generally, I really only have three:<br>
    <br>
      1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if
    necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without
    relying on the good graces of the current owner<br>
    <br>
      2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any
    users)<br>
    <br>
      3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent
    the other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into
    fields that weren't really meant for that type of data)<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free
    to chime in.  However, I think the simpler and more informal we can
    keep this list the quicker we can grind through it.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    --gun<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1c99b26c-bdac-5798-1bd9-e957b11ae4bd@yaanatech.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
        http-equiv="Content-Type">
      Hi Adam,<br>
      <br>
      A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage<br>
      in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other <br>
      solutions to the problem of software identification have <br>
      been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many<br>
      out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with<br>
      SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an <br>
      arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring <br>
      in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.<br>
      Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM <br>
      accomplishes.<br>
      <br>
      --tony<br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:EC234EFE-95AB-444B-8A5D-782ADBD60559@gmail.com"
        type="cite">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
          charset=windows-1252">
        <div class="">All:</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">After several on-list discussions, the last
          virtual interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for
          adoption, the chairs acknowledge that there are some key
          concerns with this draft, but also see that there is rough
          consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no other
          solutions to the problem of software identification have been
          submitted to the working group [1].</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Because the topic of software identification, and
          SWID in particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are
          designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of
          the working group draft [2].  We believe that Charles and
          Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this draft, so that
          the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Kind regards,</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Adam &amp; Karen</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future
          alternative submissions</div>
        <div class="">[2] Note that original authors will remain
          authors, but Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue
              &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" class="">odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt;
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                charset=windows-1252" class="">
              <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
                Folks,
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">As discussed during our last couple of
                  meetings, this is the official call for adoption of <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/</a></a> as
                  a SACM working group document. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Please reply with any comments or concerns
                  along your support of this action to the mailing
                  list. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Thanks,</div>
                <div class="">Karen and Adam</div>
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br
                class="">
              sacm mailing list<br class="">
              <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org"
                class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class="">
              <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br
                class="">
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <br>
        <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <br>
        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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statement-metatdata
should be
statement-metadata

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<p>statement-metatdata<br>
should be<br>
statement-metadata</p>

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information that my originate
information that may originate

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<p>information that my originate<br>
information that may originate</p>

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an best-effort
a best-effort

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<p>an best-effort<br>
a best-effort</p>

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into our out of a particular system
into or out of a particular system

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<p>into our out of a particular system<br>
into or out of a particular system</p>

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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 06:24:46 -0500
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References: <17198AFF-DF5A-46BC-B84A-2AAF1717BD90@isoc.org> <EC234EFE-95AB-444B-8A5D-782ADBD60559@gmail.com> <1c99b26c-bdac-5798-1bd9-e957b11ae4bd@yaanatech.com> <db612b00-c11a-88c1-45da-35e0693305e9@ThreatGuard.com>
To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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Cc: "<sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org>, tony@yaanatech.com
Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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This seems like a fine approach.

As part of that third item, I=92d like to get requirements from our own =
drafts as well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability scenario, but =
also considering our requirements and other drafts.



> On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach =
<gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a =
better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I =
could use your help in identifying other good candidates and what will =
be necessary to support as many of them as possible.
>=20
> What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather =
some requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is =
the best from among those that are good enough.  If any.
>=20
> But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated generally, =
I really only have three:
>=20
>   1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if =
necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on =
the good graces of the current owner
>=20
>   2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any =
users)
>=20
>   3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent =
the other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into =
fields that weren't really meant for that type of data)
>=20
>=20
> I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free to =
chime in.  However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep =
this list the quicker we can grind through it.
>=20
>=20
> --gun
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
>> Hi Adam,
>>=20
>> A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
>> in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
>> solutions to the problem of software identification have
>> been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
>> out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
>> SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
>> arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
>> in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
>> Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
>> accomplishes.
>>=20
>> --tony
>>=20
>> On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
>>> All:
>>>=20
>>> After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the =
discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge =
that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that =
there is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no =
other solutions to the problem of software identification have been =
submitted to the working group [1].
>>>=20
>>> Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in =
particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles =
Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  =
We believe that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to =
this draft, so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
>>>=20
>>> Kind regards,
>>>=20
>>> Adam & Karen
>>>=20
>>> [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative =
submissions
>>> [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and =
Gunnar will hold the pen.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org =
<mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Folks,
>>>>=20
>>>> As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the =
official call for adoption of  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/>https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/> as =
a SACM working group document.
>>>>=20
>>>> Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of =
this action to the mailing list.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Karen and Adam
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sacm mailing list
>>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sacm mailing list
>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">This seems like a fine approach.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As part of that third =
item, I=92d like to get requirements from our own drafts as well, =
starting perhaps with the vulnerability scenario, but also considering =
our requirements and other drafts. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com" =
class=3D"">gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
 =20
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" class=3D"">
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.&nbsp; You seem to =
have a
    better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do,
    so I could use your help in identifying other good candidates and
    what will be necessary to support as many of them as possible.<br =
class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather
    some requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which
    is the best from among those that are good enough.&nbsp; If any.<br =
class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    But first is a matter of setting the requirements.&nbsp; Stated
    generally, I really only have three:<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    &nbsp; 1)&nbsp; Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current =
owner, if
    necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without
    relying on the good graces of the current owner<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    &nbsp; 2)&nbsp; Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost =
prohibitive for any
    users)<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    &nbsp; 3)&nbsp; The most complete (that is, closest to being able to =
represent
    the other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into
    fields that weren't really meant for that type of data)<br class=3D"">=

    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free
    to chime in.&nbsp; However, I think the simpler and more informal we =
can
    keep this list the quicker we can grind through it.<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    --gun<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski
      wrote:<br class=3D"">
    </div>
    <blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:1c99b26c-bdac-5798-1bd9-e957b11ae4bd@yaanatech.com" =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
      <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" class=3D"">
      Hi Adam,<br class=3D"">
      <br class=3D"">
      A good solution.&nbsp; Charles and Gunnar should also engage<br =
class=3D"">
      in some proactive outreach.&nbsp; Simply stating that "no other =
<br class=3D"">
      solutions to the problem of software identification have <br =
class=3D"">
      been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many<br =
class=3D"">
      out there.&nbsp; IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with<br =
class=3D"">
      SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an <br =
class=3D"">
      arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring <br =
class=3D"">
      in other venues where there is far greater industry =
participation.<br class=3D"">
      Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM <br class=3D"">
      accomplishes.<br class=3D"">
      <br class=3D"">
      --tony<br class=3D"">
      <br class=3D"">
      <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam =
Montville
        wrote:<br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:EC234EFE-95AB-444B-8A5D-782ADBD60559@gmail.com" type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">
        <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
          charset=3Dwindows-1252" class=3D"">
        <div class=3D"">All:</div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"">After several on-list discussions, the last
          virtual interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for
          adoption, the chairs acknowledge that there are some key
          concerns with this draft, but also see that there is rough
          consensus for adoption. &nbsp;We additionally note that no =
other
          solutions to the problem of software identification have been
          submitted to the working group [1].</div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"">Because the topic of software identification, =
and
          SWID in particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are
          designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of
          the working group draft [2]. &nbsp;We believe that Charles and
          Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this draft, so that
          the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.</div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"">Kind regards,</div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"">Adam &amp; Karen</div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"">[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future
          alternative submissions</div>
        <div class=3D"">[2] Note that original authors will remain
          authors, but Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.</div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <br class=3D"">
        <div class=3D"">
          <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
            <div class=3D"">On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen =
O'Donoghue
              &lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" class=3D"">odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt;
              wrote:</div>
            <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class=3D"">
              <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
                charset=3Dwindows-1252" class=3D"">
              <div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">=

                Folks,
                <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                </div>
                <div class=3D"">As discussed during our last couple of
                  meetings, this is the official call for adoption =
of&nbsp;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
"></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/</a>&n=
bsp;as
                  a SACM working group document.&nbsp;</div>
                <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                </div>
                <div class=3D"">Please reply with any comments or =
concerns
                  along your support of this action to the mailing
                  list.&nbsp;</div>
                <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                </div>
                <div class=3D"">Thanks,</div>
                <div class=3D"">Karen and Adam</div>
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">
              sacm mailing list<br class=3D"">
              <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
              <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br class=3D"">
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class=3D"">
        <br class=3D"">
        <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <br class=3D"">
        <pre wrap=3D"" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/sacm</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br class=3D"">
      <br class=3D"">
      <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br class=3D"">
      <pre wrap=3D"" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/sacm</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br class=3D"">
  </div>

</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 08:44:45 +0300
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Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #1 - Managing Terminology
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Hi,

7) "Workflow or process engine" would, IMHO, be ITIL compliant


"More likely they would be using the Critical Security Controls framework."
Right, I understand this statement in a maturity level context, etc.
(I appreciate a lot the CSC, and its usage in SACM)
I'm just thinking about providing metrics from SACM (to be aligned
with strategic levels)
But I don't want to add 'complexity'

Regards


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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Re: Requirements - is this not what https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
ietf-sacm-requirements/ is about? Maybe it needs an update.

Regards,

Dan


From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam Montville
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 2:25 PM
To: Gunnar Engelbach
Cc: <sacm@ietf.org>; tony@yaanatech.com
Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc a=
s a SACM WG document

This seems like a fine approach.

As part of that third item, I'd like to get requirements from our own draft=
s as well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability scenario, but also consi=
dering our requirements and other drafts.



On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.=
com<mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>> wrote:



Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a better =
awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I could use=
 your help in identifying other good candidates and what will be necessary =
to support as many of them as possible.

What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather some re=
quirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is the best f=
rom among those that are good enough.  If any.

But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated generally, I rea=
lly only have three:

  1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if necessary=
, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on the good gr=
aces of the current owner

  2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any users)

  3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent the ot=
her tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into fields that we=
ren't really meant for that type of data)


I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free to chim=
e in.  However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep this list=
 the quicker we can grind through it.


--gun



On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
Hi Adam,

A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
solutions to the problem of software identification have
been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
accomplishes.

--tony
On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
All:

After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the discus=
sions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge that there=
 are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that there is rough co=
nsensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no other solutions to the =
problem of software identification have been submitted to the working group=
 [1].

Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in particular, appea=
rs to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar E=
ngelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  We believe that Charle=
s and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this draft, so that the ke=
y concerns are sufficiently addressed.

Kind regards,

Adam & Karen

[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative submissions
[2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and Gunnar =
will hold the pen.


On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org<mailto:o=
donoghue@isoc.org>> wrote:

Folks,

As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the official call =
for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid=
-patnc/ as a SACM working group document.

Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of this actio=
n to the mailing list.

Thanks,
Karen and Adam
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Re: Requirements &#8211; =
is this not what
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/</a> is about=
? Maybe it needs an update.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sacm [ma=
ilto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adam Montville<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 10, 2016 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gunnar Engelbach<br>
<b>Cc:</b> &lt;sacm@ietf.org&gt;; tony@yaanatech.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-=
patnc as a SACM WG document<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This seems like a fine approach.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As part of that third item, I&#8217;d like to get re=
quirements from our own drafts as well, starting perhaps with the vulnerabi=
lity scenario, but also considering our requirements and other drafts. &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com">gunnar.engelbach@threatgua=
rd.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.&nbsp; You seem to have a be=
tter awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I coul=
d use your help in identifying other good candidates and what will be neces=
sary to support as many of them as possible.<br>
<br>
What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather some re=
quirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is the best f=
rom among those that are good enough.&nbsp; If any.<br>
<br>
But first is a matter of setting the requirements.&nbsp; Stated generally, =
I really only have three:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 1)&nbsp; Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if=
 necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on t=
he good graces of the current owner<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 2)&nbsp; Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for a=
ny users)<br>
<br>
&nbsp; 3)&nbsp; The most complete (that is, closest to being able to repres=
ent the other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into fiel=
ds that weren't really meant for that type of data)<br>
<br>
<br>
I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free to chim=
e in.&nbsp; However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep this=
 list the quicker we can grind through it.<br>
<br>
<br>
--gun<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:<o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Adam,<br>
<br>
A good solution.&nbsp; Charles and Gunnar should also engage<br>
in some proactive outreach.&nbsp; Simply stating that &quot;no other <br>
solutions to the problem of software identification have <br>
been submitted&quot; is preposterous when there are so many<br>
out there.&nbsp; IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with<br>
SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an <br>
arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring <br>
in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.<br>
Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM <br>
accomplishes.<br>
<br>
--tony<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">After several on-list discussions, the last virtual =
interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs=
 acknowledge that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see=
 that there is rough consensus for
 adoption. &nbsp;We additionally note that no other solutions to the proble=
m of software identification have been submitted to the working group [1].<=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Because the topic of software identification, and SW=
ID in particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charl=
es Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2]. =
&nbsp;We believe that Charles and Gunnar
 will bring the necessary balance to this draft, so that the key concerns a=
re sufficiently addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Adam &amp; Karen<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alt=
ernative submissions<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[2] Note that original authors will remain authors, =
but Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org">odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Folks, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As discussed during our last couple of meetings, thi=
s is the official call for adoption of&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/</a>&nbsp;as
 a SACM working group document.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please reply with any comments or concerns along you=
r support of this action to the mailing list.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Karen and Adam<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>sacm mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>sacm mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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From: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "<sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/q3qsBelmcLZlvlbqnje-GwLK0OE>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Hi Gunnar,

Thanks for the suggestions. I agree with these requirements with a possible
tweak on number 3: I would say that the data model needs to cover a
sufficent "core", but probably does not need to explicitly cover every piece
of information from every reasonable, providing that the extensibility
features described in item 1 would allow that information to be captured.
The end result is the same - the transmitted data can capture all
information from whatever source is used without loss. The difference is
that we only need to identify fields that are likely to be of common
utility, and edge cases can naturally be taken care of through extensions.

Does this seem reasonable?

Charles

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gunnar Engelbach
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2016 7:45 PM
> To: tony@yaanatech.com; Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>;
> <sacm@ietf.org> <sacm@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
as
> a SACM WG document
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a better
> awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I could
use
> your help in identifying other good candidates and what will be necessary
to
> support as many of them as possible.
> 
> What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather some
> requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is the
best
> from among those that are good enough.  If any.
> 
> But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated generally, I
really
> only have three:
> 
>   1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if
necessary, to be
> sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on the good graces of
> the current owner
> 
>   2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any users)
> 
>   3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent the
other
> tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into fields that
weren't
> really meant for that type of data)
> 
> 
> I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free to
chime in.
> However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep this list the
> quicker we can grind through it.
> 
> 
> --gun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
> 
> 
> 	Hi Adam,
> 
> 	A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
> 	in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
> 	solutions to the problem of software identification have
> 	been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
> 	out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
> 	SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
> 	arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
> 	in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
> 	Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
> 	accomplishes.
> 
> 	--tony
> 
> 
> 	On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
> 
> 
> 		All:
> 
> 		After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim,
and
> the discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge
> that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that there
is
> rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no other
solutions
> to the problem of software identification have been submitted to the
> working group [1].
> 
> 		Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in
> particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles
> Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].
We
> believe that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this
draft,
> so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
> 
> 		Kind regards,
> 
> 		Adam & Karen
> 
> 		[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative
> submissions
> 		[2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but
Charles
> and Gunnar will hold the pen.
> 
> 
> 
> 			On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue
> <odonoghue@isoc.org <mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org> > wrote:
> 
> 			Folks,
> 
> 			As discussed during our last couple of meetings,
this
> is the official call for adoption of
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-
> coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-
> sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as a SACM working group document.
> 
> 			Please reply with any comments or concerns along
> your support of this action to the mailing list.
> 
> 			Thanks,
> 			Karen and Adam
> 
> 	_______________________________________________
> 			sacm mailing list
> 			sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> 			https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	_______________________________________________
> 		sacm mailing list
> 		sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> 		https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	_______________________________________________
> 	sacm mailing list
> 	sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> 	https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> 


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From: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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To: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "<sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind.  Ideally there would be enough 
coverage right off the bat such that we don't have to do any extensions 
right away -- and the fewer down the road the better.

All three of these requirements are linked.  I would say that 
extensibility is primary, but that needs to be weighed against how easy 
it is to extend, which depends on the owning organization and might be 
offset by starting with a data model that is already very complete for 
our needs.  And so on.

The trickier part to start with is figuring out what we mean by 
complete.  What is that set of properties and data types that are core?  
I would prefer to build such a list by looking at usage -- current and 
desired.  A simpler approach would be to look at existing data models 
and flag things we think are important, but that can be self-fulfilling 
and insular.


--gun


On 6/14/2016 12:01 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote:
> Hi Gunnar,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I agree with these requirements with a possible
> tweak on number 3: I would say that the data model needs to cover a
> sufficent "core", but probably does not need to explicitly cover every piece
> of information from every reasonable, providing that the extensibility
> features described in item 1 would allow that information to be captured.
> The end result is the same - the transmitted data can capture all
> information from whatever source is used without loss. The difference is
> that we only need to identify fields that are likely to be of common
> utility, and edge cases can naturally be taken care of through extensions.
>
> Does this seem reasonable?
>
> Charles
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gunnar Engelbach
>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2016 7:45 PM
>> To: tony@yaanatech.com; Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>;
>> <sacm@ietf.org> <sacm@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
> as
>> a SACM WG document
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a better
>> awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I could
> use
>> your help in identifying other good candidates and what will be necessary
> to
>> support as many of them as possible.
>>
>> What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather some
>> requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is the
> best
>> from among those that are good enough.  If any.
>>
>> But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated generally, I
> really
>> only have three:
>>
>>    1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if
> necessary, to be
>> sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on the good graces of
>> the current owner
>>
>>    2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any users)
>>
>>    3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent the
> other
>> tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into fields that
> weren't
>> really meant for that type of data)
>>
>>
>> I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free to
> chime in.
>> However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep this list the
>> quicker we can grind through it.
>>
>>
>> --gun
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
>>
>>
>> 	Hi Adam,
>>
>> 	A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
>> 	in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
>> 	solutions to the problem of software identification have
>> 	been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
>> 	out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
>> 	SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
>> 	arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
>> 	in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
>> 	Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
>> 	accomplishes.
>>
>> 	--tony
>>
>>
>> 	On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
>>
>>
>> 		All:
>>
>> 		After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim,
> and
>> the discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge
>> that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that there
> is
>> rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no other
> solutions
>> to the problem of software identification have been submitted to the
>> working group [1].
>>
>> 		Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in
>> particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles
>> Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].
> We
>> believe that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this
> draft,
>> so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
>>
>> 		Kind regards,
>>
>> 		Adam & Karen
>>
>> 		[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative
>> submissions
>> 		[2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but
> Charles
>> and Gunnar will hold the pen.
>>
>>
>>
>> 			On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue
>> <odonoghue@isoc.org <mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org> > wrote:
>>
>> 			Folks,
>>
>> 			As discussed during our last couple of meetings,
> this
>> is the official call for adoption of
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-
>> coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-
>> sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as a SACM working group document.
>>
>> 			Please reply with any comments or concerns along
>> your support of this action to the mailing list.
>>
>> 			Thanks,
>> 			Karen and Adam
>>
>> 	_______________________________________________
>> 			sacm mailing list
>> 			sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> 			https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 	_______________________________________________
>> 		sacm mailing list
>> 		sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> 		https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 	_______________________________________________
>> 	sacm mailing list
>> 	sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> 	https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>


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Subject: [sacm] [sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario] adding wg version of vulnerability assessment scenario (#24)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24

-- Commit Summary --

  * adding wg version of vulnerability assessment scenario

-- File Changes --

    A draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario.xml (1215)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24.patch
https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24'>https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>adding wg version of vulnerability assessment scenario</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>A</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario.xml</a>
    (1215)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24.patch'>https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24.diff'>https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/24.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Thread-Topic: NIST IR 8060 - Guidelines for the Creation of Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) Tags
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Subject: [sacm] NIST IR 8060 - Guidelines for the Creation of Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) Tags
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Hello,

On today's call Jim requested a link to the NIST Interagency Report on SWID
tags. The link to that document (NISTIR 8060 "Guidelines for the Creation of
Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) Tags") is here:
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2016/NIST.IR.8060.pdf

Between this and the freely available XML schema for ISO SWID 2015 tags
(http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2015-current/schema.xsd) hopefully
this addresses most of the availability concerns regarding ISO SWID 2015 as
a data model.

And for the sake of being complete, the XML schema for ISO SWID 2009 is also
available (http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd). Note that
the NIST document deals with SWID 2015, not SWID 2009.

Charles 

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<TITLE>NIST IR 8060 - Guidelines for the Creation of Interoperable =
Software Identification (SWID) Tags</TITLE>
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<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Hello,</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">On today's call =
Jim requested a link to the NIST Interagency Report on SWID tags. The =
link to that document (NISTIR 8060 &quot;G</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">uidelines for the Creation of =
Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) =
Tags&quot;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> is here:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"><A =
HREF=3D"http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2016/NIST.IR.8060.pdf">http:/=
/nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2016/NIST.IR.8060.pdf</A></FONT></SPAN><SPA=
N LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Between this =
and the freely available XML schema for ISO SWID 2015 tags =
(</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"><A =
HREF=3D"http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2015-current/schema.xsd">ht=
tp://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2015-current/schema.xsd</A></FONT></S=
PAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">hopefully this addresses most of =
the availability concerns regarding ISO SWID 2015</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">as a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">data model.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">And for the =
sake of being complete, the XML schema for ISO SWID 2009 is also =
available (</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"><A =
HREF=3D"http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd">http://sta=
ndards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd</A></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">). Note that the NIST document =
deals with SWID 2015, not SWID 2009.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Charles</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> </SPAN></P>

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Subject: [sacm] [sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario] determine alignment of vulnerability assessment process with sacm tasks (#25)
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We should examine the vulnerability assessment process outlined in the draft and determine the alignment with SACM tasks and update as necessary.

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<p>We should examine the vulnerability assessment process outlined in the draft and determine the alignment with SACM tasks and update as necessary.</p>

<p style="font-size:small;-webkit-text-size-adjust:none;color:#666;">&mdash;<br />You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.<br />Reply to this email directly, <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25">view it on GitHub</a>, or <a href="https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe/AKbE0fObbJILT3CEQC0r8FpvkZOs67DXks5qMKkdgaJpZM4I28xi">mute the thread</a>.<img alt="" height="1" src="https://github.com/notifications/beacon/AKbE0SnrrJgGZM43REoEQfzSK9DFP66fks5qMKkdgaJpZM4I28xi.gif" width="1" /></p>
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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From: "Cokus, Michael S." <msc@mitre.org>
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Subject: [sacm] Data Formats for Endpoint Data Model
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All,



As the IM document gets closer to completion, I'd like to queue up discussi=
on pertaining to data models based on OVAL.  I propose that as a pilot effo=
rt we look at selecting a data format for representing a data model for con=
figuration endpoint information.



Since data formats are potentially a lively subject, I'd like to suggest so=
me questions we should consider when discussing the merits of a data format=
.



1 - Does the data format meet SACM requirements? [1]



2 - Does the data format support the SACM IM? [2]



3 - What are the PROs and CONs of the data format with respect to SACM?



The purpose of the questions above is to focus discussion.  What do you thi=
nk?  Are there other ideas?



Assuming we can agree to the first step, I think the way to begin is to det=
ermine which of the SACM requirements are relevant to data formats.  I'm gu=
essing that many of the requirements have no effect on which data format(s)=
 to use.  So narrowing these down would be a good idea.  Would anyone like =
to take a look at the requirements document [1] and come up with a list of =
data-format-relevant requirements?



Thanks,



--mike



[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/

[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/


Mike Cokus
Systems Engineer
The MITRE Corporation


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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">As the IM document gets closer to completion, I&#=
8217;d like to queue up discussion pertaining to data models based on OVAL.=
&nbsp; I propose that as a pilot effort we look at selecting a data format =
for representing a data model for configuration
 endpoint information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Since data formats are potentially a lively subje=
ct, I&#8217;d like to suggest some questions we should consider when discus=
sing the merits of a data format.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">1 - Does the data format meet SACM requirements? =
[1]&nbsp; <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">2 - Does the data format support the SACM IM? [2]=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">3 - What are the PROs and CONs of the data format=
 with respect to SACM?&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">The purpose of the questions above is to focus di=
scussion.&nbsp; What do you think?&nbsp; Are there other ideas?<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Assuming we can agree to the first step, I think =
the way to begin is to determine which of the SACM requirements are relevan=
t to data formats.&nbsp; I'm guessing that many of the requirements have no=
 effect on which data format(s) to use.&nbsp;
 So narrowing these down would be a good idea.&nbsp; Would anyone like to t=
ake a look at the requirements document [1] and come up with a list of data=
-format-relevant requirements?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">--mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[1] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-sacm-requirements/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/</a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[2] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-sacm-information-model/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-information-model/</a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mike Cokus<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Systems Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The MITRE Corporation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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</body>
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From nobody Thu Jun 16 12:18:04 2016
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Subject: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
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In yesterday's conference call, Henk made a statement that I did not feel
was important at the time to dispute.  I have since changed my mind.

Specifically, he agreed with the statement that SACM is a grid architecture.
I don't believe this is a true statement based both on my own personal
understanding of how things will/should work and based on the use cases
document (RFC 7632).  The use case document has the "Ice Station Zebra" use
case (Section 2.2.5).  In this case one method of setting this up with be
for a SACM component to be placed at the university and another one at the
remote office.  Since there is not going to be either continuous or
high-speed connections between the two locations, one is going to have a
replication type situation between these two components to move guidance
from the university to the station and end point assessments from the
station back to the university.  There is not the concept of a grid here as
there is a single choke point between the two locations.

This view is also reflected in the architecture document.  One has
repositories that can either be standalone or replicate between each other.
One has proxy agents that one can ask for data which will go and get it from
other locations (such as remote offices, partners, or other departments).
One does not want to have everyone talking to the same end-point every time
that they want to get an assessment done.  So one will have a graph rather
than a grid of SACM components.  Some endpoints will only ever talk to a
single other component (a local repository) by publishing data and getting
guidance (and may not even the latter). 

The context that this was raised in was the question of NEA and if the
client and server NEA components are SACM components individually or if only
the NEA server is a SACM component.   I can understand both sides of the
argument that the client is or is not a SACM component.  The argument that
it is not because SACM is a grid is not something that I would consider to
be a valid argument because of the previous paragraphs.  The NEA client can
get guidance: there are provisions for sending guidance both about what to
assess and how to remediate in NEA.  The NEA client can do assessments:  We
talked about this for quite some time on the conference call when looking at
the SWID questions.  NEA can trigger events from either side, this is a SACM
requirement.

There are valid reasons for not considering NEA to be a SACM protocol, but
we need to be clear about why we think it is or is not a valid protocol esp.
if we are looking at adopting it as a SACM work item.

Jim



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From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
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Jim,

These are good points that align with my thinking as well.

More below.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jim Schaad
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 3:18 PM
> To: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
>=20
> In yesterday's conference call, Henk made a statement that I did not feel=
 was
> important at the time to dispute.  I have since changed my mind.
>=20
> Specifically, he agreed with the statement that SACM is a grid architectu=
re.
> I don't believe this is a true statement based both on my own personal
> understanding of how things will/should work and based on the use cases
> document (RFC 7632).  The use case document has the "Ice Station Zebra"
> use case (Section 2.2.5).  In this case one method of setting this up wit=
h be
> for a SACM component to be placed at the university and another one at th=
e
> remote office.  Since there is not going to be either continuous or high-=
speed
> connections between the two locations, one is going to have a replication
> type situation between these two components to move guidance from the
> university to the station and end point assessments from the station back=
 to
> the university.  There is not the concept of a grid here as there is a si=
ngle
> choke point between the two locations.

I agree.=20

> This view is also reflected in the architecture document.  One has
> repositories that can either be standalone or replicate between each othe=
r.
> One has proxy agents that one can ask for data which will go and get it f=
rom
> other locations (such as remote offices, partners, or other departments).
> One does not want to have everyone talking to the same end-point every
> time that they want to get an assessment done.  So one will have a graph
> rather than a grid of SACM components.  Some endpoints will only ever tal=
k
> to a single other component (a local repository) by publishing data and
> getting guidance (and may not even the latter).

Your point about the problems with having all other components talking to t=
he same target endpoint every time an assessment is needed is a strong one.=
 This is the value of having a single component that coordinates all data c=
ollection from the target endpoint. It can consolidate all of the data coll=
ection requests, provide previously requested data that is fresh enough, an=
d compute the most efficient way to collect data from the target endpoint. =
This can dramatically reduce the amount of duplicate collection needed to s=
atisfy the needs of all other downstream SACM components. This reduces the =
load on the target endpoint, which is a win-win IMHO. This approach is also=
 irrespective to scenarios where the collection component is connected to a=
 grid or directly communicating with the other SACM components requesting c=
ollection.

> The context that this was raised in was the question of NEA and if the cl=
ient
> and server NEA components are SACM components individually or if only
> the NEA server is a SACM component.   I can understand both sides of the
> argument that the client is or is not a SACM component.  The argument tha=
t
> it is not because SACM is a grid is not something that I would consider t=
o be a
> valid argument because of the previous paragraphs.  The NEA client can ge=
t
> guidance: there are provisions for sending guidance both about what to
> assess and how to remediate in NEA.  The NEA client can do assessments:

>From RFC5209 section 5, the NEA Client is the NEA Posture Collectors, Postu=
re Broker Client, and Posture Transport Client on the target endpoint. This=
 component can get guidance and will likely do so in an operational setting=
. The NEA server consisting of Posture Validators, Posture Broker Server, a=
nd Posture Transport Server would be the point of collection coordination. =
This component would work to ensure that the SACM collection requests are a=
ddressed in an efficient way that does not duplicate collection activities.=
=20

This is expressed as requirement OP-003 in the requirements draft.

> We talked about this for quite some time on the conference call when
> looking at the SWID questions.  NEA can trigger events from either side, =
this
> is a SACM requirement.

Indeed. This is requirement G-011 in the requirements draft.

> There are valid reasons for not considering NEA to be a SACM protocol, bu=
t
> we need to be clear about why we think it is or is not a valid protocol e=
sp.
> if we are looking at adopting it as a SACM work item.

After a number of calls for solution submissions, the approach we have been=
 working on based on extending NEA is the only approach that I have seen th=
at provides an actual solution to the use cases. Use of SWID Messages repre=
sents a concrete method for collection of software inventory information fr=
om a target endpoint. This is a significant part of what we have been chart=
ered to address. It also supports a significant portion of the data that ne=
eds to be collected to address vulnerability assessment. If extensions to N=
EA are not considered part of the SACM architecture, then I don't think we =
have made any progress towards a solution. This would be a very troubling o=
utcome considering there is no concrete alternative for collection of softw=
are inventory information.

I believe we need to update the architecture to capture the need for a comp=
onent to coordinate posture collection activities regarding target endpoint=
s. This would bring the architecture in sync with our use cases and require=
ments. This would also make the role of NEA extensions more clear as part o=
f the SACM solution set.

>=20
> Jim

Thanks,
Dave


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We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix E to reference Critical=
 Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].  I went through both versio=
ns of the document and made the appropriate updates to the text (see attach=
ed) as some controls have changed or have been removed.

Please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem reasonable =
to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnerability Assessment Scena=
rio I-D.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23
[2] https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix =
E to reference Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].&nbsp=
; I went through both versions of the document and made the appropriate upd=
ates to the text (see attached) as some
 controls have changed or have been removed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please review the attached changes and let me know i=
f they seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnera=
bility Assessment Scenario I-D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Danny<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerabili=
ty-scenario/issues/23">
https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23</a><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[2] <a href=3D"https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-c=
ontrols.cfm">
https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:34:49 -0400
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Cc: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
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Hi Jim and Dave,

All good points that I agree with.

I especially want to reinforce Jim's comments that SACM is NOT tied
to a grid architecture (a concept as fuzzy as cloud architecture, IMO).

In the existing real world most/many endpoints will only communicate
with one upstream posture server (except when falling back, because
of a failed primary posture server).

SACM will certainly not change the world.  It may offer enough value
to integrate into the world and augment the already complex universe
of security services.

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434


On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <
david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

> Jim,
>
> These are good points that align with my thinking as well.
>
> More below.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jim Schaad
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 3:18 PM
> > To: sacm@ietf.org
> > Subject: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
> >
> > In yesterday's conference call, Henk made a statement that I did not
> feel was
> > important at the time to dispute.  I have since changed my mind.
> >
> > Specifically, he agreed with the statement that SACM is a grid
> architecture.
> > I don't believe this is a true statement based both on my own personal
> > understanding of how things will/should work and based on the use cases
> > document (RFC 7632).  The use case document has the "Ice Station Zebra"
> > use case (Section 2.2.5).  In this case one method of setting this up
> with be
> > for a SACM component to be placed at the university and another one at
> the
> > remote office.  Since there is not going to be either continuous or
> high-speed
> > connections between the two locations, one is going to have a replication
> > type situation between these two components to move guidance from the
> > university to the station and end point assessments from the station
> back to
> > the university.  There is not the concept of a grid here as there is a
> single
> > choke point between the two locations.
>
> I agree.
>
> > This view is also reflected in the architecture document.  One has
> > repositories that can either be standalone or replicate between each
> other.
> > One has proxy agents that one can ask for data which will go and get it
> from
> > other locations (such as remote offices, partners, or other departments).
> > One does not want to have everyone talking to the same end-point every
> > time that they want to get an assessment done.  So one will have a graph
> > rather than a grid of SACM components.  Some endpoints will only ever
> talk
> > to a single other component (a local repository) by publishing data and
> > getting guidance (and may not even the latter).
>
> Your point about the problems with having all other components talking to
> the same target endpoint every time an assessment is needed is a strong
> one. This is the value of having a single component that coordinates all
> data collection from the target endpoint. It can consolidate all of the
> data collection requests, provide previously requested data that is fresh
> enough, and compute the most efficient way to collect data from the target
> endpoint. This can dramatically reduce the amount of duplicate collection
> needed to satisfy the needs of all other downstream SACM components. This
> reduces the load on the target endpoint, which is a win-win IMHO. This
> approach is also irrespective to scenarios where the collection component
> is connected to a grid or directly communicating with the other SACM
> components requesting collection.
>
> > The context that this was raised in was the question of NEA and if the
> client
> > and server NEA components are SACM components individually or if only
> > the NEA server is a SACM component.   I can understand both sides of the
> > argument that the client is or is not a SACM component.  The argument
> that
> > it is not because SACM is a grid is not something that I would consider
> to be a
> > valid argument because of the previous paragraphs.  The NEA client can
> get
> > guidance: there are provisions for sending guidance both about what to
> > assess and how to remediate in NEA.  The NEA client can do assessments:
>
> >From RFC5209 section 5, the NEA Client is the NEA Posture Collectors,
> Posture Broker Client, and Posture Transport Client on the target endpoint.
> This component can get guidance and will likely do so in an operational
> setting. The NEA server consisting of Posture Validators, Posture Broker
> Server, and Posture Transport Server would be the point of collection
> coordination. This component would work to ensure that the SACM collection
> requests are addressed in an efficient way that does not duplicate
> collection activities.
>
> This is expressed as requirement OP-003 in the requirements draft.
>
> > We talked about this for quite some time on the conference call when
> > looking at the SWID questions.  NEA can trigger events from either side,
> this
> > is a SACM requirement.
>
> Indeed. This is requirement G-011 in the requirements draft.
>
> > There are valid reasons for not considering NEA to be a SACM protocol,
> but
> > we need to be clear about why we think it is or is not a valid protocol
> esp.
> > if we are looking at adopting it as a SACM work item.
>
> After a number of calls for solution submissions, the approach we have
> been working on based on extending NEA is the only approach that I have
> seen that provides an actual solution to the use cases. Use of SWID
> Messages represents a concrete method for collection of software inventory
> information from a target endpoint. This is a significant part of what we
> have been chartered to address. It also supports a significant portion of
> the data that needs to be collected to address vulnerability assessment. If
> extensions to NEA are not considered part of the SACM architecture, then I
> don't think we have made any progress towards a solution. This would be a
> very troubling outcome considering there is no concrete alternative for
> collection of software inventory information.
>
> I believe we need to update the architecture to capture the need for a
> component to coordinate posture collection activities regarding target
> endpoints. This would bring the architecture in sync with our use cases and
> requirements. This would also make the role of NEA extensions more clear as
> part of the SACM solution set.
>
> >
> > Jim
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>

--001a1136e7da5d18790535796c34
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Jim and Da=
ve,<br><br></div>All good points that I agree with.<br><br></div>I especial=
ly want to reinforce Jim&#39;s comments that SACM is NOT tied<br></div>to a=
 grid architecture (a concept as fuzzy as cloud architecture, IMO).<br><br>=
</div>In the existing real world most/many endpoints will only communicate<=
br></div>with one upstream posture server (except when falling back, becaus=
e<br></div>of a failed primary posture server).<br><br></div>SACM will cert=
ainly not change the world.=C2=A0 It may offer enough value<br></div>to int=
egrate into the world and augment the already complex universe<br></div>of =
security services.<br><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>- Ira<br></=
div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Tru=
sted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>=
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Int=
ernet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MI=
B<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,20=
4)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:bl=
ueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Win=
ter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br=
>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br=
><br><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></di=
v><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div=
></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Waltermire,=
 David A. (Fed) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.waltermire@ni=
st.gov" target=3D"_blank">david.waltermire@nist.gov</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Jim,<br>
<br>
These are good points that align with my thinking as well.<br>
<br>
More below.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: sacm [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org">sacm-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Jim Schaad<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 3:18 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In yesterday&#39;s conference call, Henk made a statement that I did n=
ot feel was<br>
&gt; important at the time to dispute.=C2=A0 I have since changed my mind.<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Specifically, he agreed with the statement that SACM is a grid archite=
cture.<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t believe this is a true statement based both on my own pers=
onal<br>
&gt; understanding of how things will/should work and based on the use case=
s<br>
&gt; document (RFC 7632).=C2=A0 The use case document has the &quot;Ice Sta=
tion Zebra&quot;<br>
&gt; use case (Section 2.2.5).=C2=A0 In this case one method of setting thi=
s up with be<br>
&gt; for a SACM component to be placed at the university and another one at=
 the<br>
&gt; remote office.=C2=A0 Since there is not going to be either continuous =
or high-speed<br>
&gt; connections between the two locations, one is going to have a replicat=
ion<br>
&gt; type situation between these two components to move guidance from the<=
br>
&gt; university to the station and end point assessments from the station b=
ack to<br>
&gt; the university.=C2=A0 There is not the concept of a grid here as there=
 is a single<br>
&gt; choke point between the two locations.<br>
<br>
</span>I agree.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; This view is also reflected in the architecture document.=C2=A0 One ha=
s<br>
&gt; repositories that can either be standalone or replicate between each o=
ther.<br>
&gt; One has proxy agents that one can ask for data which will go and get i=
t from<br>
&gt; other locations (such as remote offices, partners, or other department=
s).<br>
&gt; One does not want to have everyone talking to the same end-point every=
<br>
&gt; time that they want to get an assessment done.=C2=A0 So one will have =
a graph<br>
&gt; rather than a grid of SACM components.=C2=A0 Some endpoints will only =
ever talk<br>
&gt; to a single other component (a local repository) by publishing data an=
d<br>
&gt; getting guidance (and may not even the latter).<br>
<br>
</span>Your point about the problems with having all other components talki=
ng to the same target endpoint every time an assessment is needed is a stro=
ng one. This is the value of having a single component that coordinates all=
 data collection from the target endpoint. It can consolidate all of the da=
ta collection requests, provide previously requested data that is fresh eno=
ugh, and compute the most efficient way to collect data from the target end=
point. This can dramatically reduce the amount of duplicate collection need=
ed to satisfy the needs of all other downstream SACM components. This reduc=
es the load on the target endpoint, which is a win-win IMHO. This approach =
is also irrespective to scenarios where the collection component is connect=
ed to a grid or directly communicating with the other SACM components reque=
sting collection.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; The context that this was raised in was the question of NEA and if the=
 client<br>
&gt; and server NEA components are SACM components individually or if only<=
br>
&gt; the NEA server is a SACM component.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I can understand both =
sides of the<br>
&gt; argument that the client is or is not a SACM component.=C2=A0 The argu=
ment that<br>
&gt; it is not because SACM is a grid is not something that I would conside=
r to be a<br>
&gt; valid argument because of the previous paragraphs.=C2=A0 The NEA clien=
t can get<br>
&gt; guidance: there are provisions for sending guidance both about what to=
<br>
&gt; assess and how to remediate in NEA.=C2=A0 The NEA client can do assess=
ments:<br>
<br>
</span>&gt;From RFC5209 section 5, the NEA Client is the NEA Posture Collec=
tors, Posture Broker Client, and Posture Transport Client on the target end=
point. This component can get guidance and will likely do so in an operatio=
nal setting. The NEA server consisting of Posture Validators, Posture Broke=
r Server, and Posture Transport Server would be the point of collection coo=
rdination. This component would work to ensure that the SACM collection req=
uests are addressed in an efficient way that does not duplicate collection =
activities.<br>
<br>
This is expressed as requirement OP-003 in the requirements draft.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; We talked about this for quite some time on the conference call when<b=
r>
&gt; looking at the SWID questions.=C2=A0 NEA can trigger events from eithe=
r side, this<br>
&gt; is a SACM requirement.<br>
<br>
</span>Indeed. This is requirement G-011 in the requirements draft.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; There are valid reasons for not considering NEA to be a SACM protocol,=
 but<br>
&gt; we need to be clear about why we think it is or is not a valid protoco=
l esp.<br>
&gt; if we are looking at adopting it as a SACM work item.<br>
<br>
</span>After a number of calls for solution submissions, the approach we ha=
ve been working on based on extending NEA is the only approach that I have =
seen that provides an actual solution to the use cases. Use of SWID Message=
s represents a concrete method for collection of software inventory informa=
tion from a target endpoint. This is a significant part of what we have bee=
n chartered to address. It also supports a significant portion of the data =
that needs to be collected to address vulnerability assessment. If extensio=
ns to NEA are not considered part of the SACM architecture, then I don&#39;=
t think we have made any progress towards a solution. This would be a very =
troubling outcome considering there is no concrete alternative for collecti=
on of software inventory information.<br>
<br>
I believe we need to update the architecture to capture the need for a comp=
onent to coordinate posture collection activities regarding target endpoint=
s. This would bring the architecture in sync with our use cases and require=
ments. This would also make the role of NEA extensions more clear as part o=
f the SACM solution set.<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Jim<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dave<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1136e7da5d18790535796c34--


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Fixed a couple other typos.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34

-- Commit Summary --

  * Update draft-ietf-sacm-terminology.md

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-sacm-terminology.md (6)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34.patch
https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34.diff

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<p>Fixed a couple other typos.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34'>https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Update draft-ietf-sacm-terminology.md</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-sacm-terminology.md</a>
    (6)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34.patch'>https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34.diff'>https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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From nobody Fri Jun 17 13:09:20 2016
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:09:03 +0200
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
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My intend was to highlight that any SACM component should be able to 
discovery any other SACM component and find out how to consume the data 
it provides.

In regard to the use case of Ice Station Zebra, an example:
There is a SACM component on the remote site. That component is 
unavailable/unreachable to the campus site for most of the time. But if 
there is connectivity, the SACM component at the remote site can 
register again at a broker on the campus site, publish data to the SACM 
domain because it is able to register and then becomes unavailable again.

If a grid protocol would be used, data published in the available 
windows could be consumed by any other SACM component or new guidance 
could be discovered and then requested by the remote SACM component.

If an end-to-end protocol is used, data published is transported to a 
single SACM component, which again can provide it to other SACM 
components (because this capability can be discovered and used by other 
SACM components).

The choke-point scenario does not inhibit the use of a grid 
architecture, but that was actually not the point I had in mind when I 
mentioned the grid architecture. Maybe my words were chosen poorly.

My point was: It is vital for SACM components to be able to provide data 
in a standardized way so that other SACM components can consume it 
without the mapping/parsing/homogenization overhead that is still very 
common at every turn. This requires to things:

1) at minimum, SACM components require a base set of standardized 
information elements that can be used to refer to "data of interest" in 
the SACM domain (which are provided by the information model).

2) the data a component provides has to be consumable by other components

If a collector does not produce at least something every other component 
can consume, it is not a SACM component. But thats absolutely okay - if 
that kind of collector always comes with a counterpart that provides the 
functions/capabilities of a SACM component. In this case the SACM 
component might be a composite of sub-components? And this could be an 
addition to the part of the architecture that defines SACM components?


Grüße,

Henk


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Merged #34.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/pull/34" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology/issues/34" data-id="160948264" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#34</a>.</p>

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From nobody Fri Jun 17 14:52:34 2016
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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:52:23 -0500
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To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
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Is use of the term =93grid=94 getting in the way?  As a working group, =
we have let the architecture draft expire.  That draft described an =
architecture with component discovery and registration as Henk =
describes.  That draft also described an architecture that can be =
configured as a consolidation architecture, as Charles put it during the =
virtual interim.

The drafts we have adopted as a working group presume a NEA architecture =
as a starting point, and this does not seem contrary to the spirit of =
our expired architecture draft, nor does it seem contrary to the content =
of our requirements draft.

It seems that what we have not yet done is to satisfy discovery, =
registration, and probably other requirements.  Such requirement may not =
be met by NEA=92s.  If not, then it=92s the job of the working group to =
satisfy those requirements by extending NEA (at least that is implied by =
our adoption of, at least, the SWID over PA-TNC draft).

Kind regards,

Adam




> On Jun 17, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Henk Birkholz =
<henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
>=20
> My intend was to highlight that any SACM component should be able to =
discovery any other SACM component and find out how to consume the data =
it provides.
>=20
> In regard to the use case of Ice Station Zebra, an example:
> There is a SACM component on the remote site. That component is =
unavailable/unreachable to the campus site for most of the time. But if =
there is connectivity, the SACM component at the remote site can =
register again at a broker on the campus site, publish data to the SACM =
domain because it is able to register and then becomes unavailable =
again.
>=20
> If a grid protocol would be used, data published in the available =
windows could be consumed by any other SACM component or new guidance =
could be discovered and then requested by the remote SACM component.
>=20
> If an end-to-end protocol is used, data published is transported to a =
single SACM component, which again can provide it to other SACM =
components (because this capability can be discovered and used by other =
SACM components).
>=20
> The choke-point scenario does not inhibit the use of a grid =
architecture, but that was actually not the point I had in mind when I =
mentioned the grid architecture. Maybe my words were chosen poorly.
>=20
> My point was: It is vital for SACM components to be able to provide =
data in a standardized way so that other SACM components can consume it =
without the mapping/parsing/homogenization overhead that is still very =
common at every turn. This requires to things:
>=20
> 1) at minimum, SACM components require a base set of standardized =
information elements that can be used to refer to "data of interest" in =
the SACM domain (which are provided by the information model).
>=20
> 2) the data a component provides has to be consumable by other =
components
>=20
> If a collector does not produce at least something every other =
component can consume, it is not a SACM component. But thats absolutely =
okay - if that kind of collector always comes with a counterpart that =
provides the functions/capabilities of a SACM component. In this case =
the SACM component might be a composite of sub-components? And this =
could be an addition to the part of the architecture that defines SACM =
components?
>=20
>=20
> Gr=FC=DFe,
>=20
> Henk
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:58:32 -0500
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank you.

> On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>=20
> We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix E to reference =
Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].  I went through =
both versions of the document and made the appropriate updates to the =
text (see attached) as some controls have changed or have been removed.
>=20
> Please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem =
reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnerability =
Assessment Scenario I-D.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
> [1] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23 =
<https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23>
> [2] https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm =
<https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm>
>=20
> <csc-updates.docx>_______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank you.<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">We have a tracker that =
recommends updating Appendix E to reference Critical Security Controls =
v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].&nbsp; I went through both versions of the =
document and made the appropriate updates to the text (see attached) as =
some controls have changed or have been removed.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Please =
review the attached changes and let me know if they seem reasonable to =
incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnerability Assessment =
Scenario I-D.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Danny<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">[1]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23</a><=
o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">[2]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm" style=3D"color: =
rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><span =
id=3D"cid:DD9037EE-8A38-4368-A963-CD601C60B4D4@attlocal.net">&lt;csc-updat=
es.docx&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">sacm mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
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class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></div></blockquot=
e></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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To: "Schmidt, Charles M." <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
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Cc: "<sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] NIST IR 8060 - Guidelines for the Creation of Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) Tags
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Thank you, Charles.  This should, I agree, go a long way toward =
addressing availability concerns.

Adam

> On Jun 15, 2016, at 2:34 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hello,
>=20
> On today's call Jim requested a link to the NIST Interagency Report on =
SWID tags. The link to that document (NISTIR 8060 "Guidelines for the =
Creation of Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) Tags") is here: =
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2016/NIST.IR.8060.pdf =
<http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2016/NIST.IR.8060.pdf>
> Between this and the freely available XML schema for ISO SWID 2015 =
tags (http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2015-current/schema.xsd =
<http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2015-current/schema.xsd>) =
hopefully this addresses most of the availability concerns regarding ISO =
SWID 2015 as a data model.
>=20
> And for the sake of being complete, the XML schema for ISO SWID 2009 =
is also available (http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd =
<http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd>). Note that the =
NIST document deals with SWID 2015, not SWID 2009.
>=20
> Charles
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Thank you, Charles. &nbsp;This should, I agree, go a long way =
toward addressing availability concerns.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Adam</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jun 15, 2016, at 2:34 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:cmschmidt@mitre.org" class=3D"">cmschmidt@mitre.org</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">


<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii" class=3D"">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
rmj.rmm.rup.rpr" class=3D"">
<title class=3D"">NIST IR 8060 - Guidelines for the Creation of =
Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) Tags</title>

<div class=3D"">
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format --><p dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D"">Hello,</font></span></p><p dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">On today's =
call Jim requested a link to the NIST Interagency Report on SWID tags. =
The link to that document (NISTIR 8060 "G</font></span><span =
lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">uidelines =
for the Creation of Interoperable Software Identification (SWID) =
Tags"</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D"">)</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" class=3D""> is here:</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" =
class=3D""> <font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2016/NIST.IR.8060.pdf" =
class=3D"">http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2016/NIST.IR.8060.pdf</a></=
font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""></span></p><p dir=3D"LTR" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D"">Between this and the freely available XML schema for ISO SWID =
2015 tags (</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2015-current/schema.xsd" =
class=3D"">http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2015-current/schema.xsd</=
a></font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D"">)</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""> <font =
face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">hopefully this addresses most of the =
availability concerns regarding ISO SWID 2015</font></span><span =
lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""> <font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">as =
a</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""> <font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D"">data model.</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" =
class=3D""></span></p><p dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en-us" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">And for the sake of being =
complete, the XML schema for ISO SWID 2009 is also available =
(</font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd" =
class=3D"">http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd</a></font=
></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D"">). Note that the NIST document deals with SWID 2015, not SWID =
2009.</font></span></p><p dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en-us" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">Charles</font></span><span =
lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D""></font></span><span lang=3D"en-us" class=3D""> </span></p>

</div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">sacm =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, but are we =
forgetting our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?  We borrow, =
and expand upon, the term from RFC5209.  Here=E2=80=99s what our =
terminology draft says:

Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting =
posture for a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based =
firewall) such that the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture =
against compliance policy.=E2=80=9D  Within SACM the use of the term is =
expanded to support other uses of collected posture (e.g. reporting, =
network enforcement, vulnerability detection, license management).  The =
phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabilities on the endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: =
hardware and software installed on the endpoint.

But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about =
collection in the context of *pre*-assessment.  So, a collection before =
=E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which =
seems off to me.

Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?  Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=
=9D anything?  There is data available at the time of evaluation or =
there is not.  If there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs =
to be grabbed during the next collection opportunity, and we indicate =
whether it=E2=80=99s something we need to grab all the time, or just =
this once.

Thoughts?

Adam



> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>=20
> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I =
was hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, =
however, I ran out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the =
updated text as it seemed clearer and more concise than what I had =
proposed, but, says the same thing.
>=20
> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted =
on 6/8/16 [1]).
>=20
> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes =
of=E2=80=A6Over time, some new pieces of information that are needed =
during common types of assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment =
collection can be reconfigured to have this information delivered =
automatically. This avoids the need for regular supplemental collections =
to gather this information during assessments, streamlining the =
assessment process. Likewise, it might be observed that certain =
information delivered during pre-assessment collection is rarely used. =
In this case, it might be useful to stop pre-assessment collection of =
this information to reduce network and processing overhead. Instead, =
supplemental collection can be used to gather this data on the rare =
occasions when it is needed."
>=20
> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July =
21st.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>=20
> This rewrite is imho better
> Thanks
>=20
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org =
<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph =
help clarify things?
>=20
> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment =
scenarios, as
> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability =
detection data over
> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional =
detection
> information that it was previously not collecting and push that =
information to the
> vulnerability management capability where it can support future =
assessments. The
> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g., =
change
> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>=20
> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability =
management capability and the endpoint management capability, as =
written, I think it will be left to the implementer of those =
capabilities to decide.  I think the point is just that you could do =
something like this to improve the vulnerability assessment.
>=20
> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be to =
just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would =
preclude an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their =
product.
>=20
> Thoughts?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com <>]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
> > To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <>>
> > Cc: sacm@ietf.org <>
> > Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue #5
> > - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
> >
> > While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is =
that "the
> > information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
> > information":
> > I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would =
have
> > to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
> > capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do =
with
> > 'unknown' additional information)
> >
> > So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to =
something
> > like "the updated information"
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <>>:
> > > During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed =
various open
> > > issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] =
as a
> > > result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
> > > here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found =
here [4].
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because =
we ran out
> > > of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has =
the
> > > ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the =
vulnerability
> > > assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
> > > following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
(specifically the
> > last sentence).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to =
determine an
> > > endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
> > >
> > > collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> > > Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
> > >
> > > endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository =
and
> > > a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
> > >
> > > an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer =
to
> > > enable operators to perform targeted collection under
> > >
> > > certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
> > > provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
> > >
> > > may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted =
collection of
> > > endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
> > >
> > > assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the =
vulnerability
> > > assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
> > >
> > > scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> > > information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
> > >
> > > management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability =
assessment
> > > capability by the endpoint whenever that information
> > >
> > > changes.=E2=80=9D
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
> > > endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
> > > capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily =
know
> > > what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting =
it
> > > (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
> > > situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what =
additional
> > > information is needed for an assessment without a server =
requesting it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by =
May
> > 31st.
> > > We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for =
June 8th.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Danny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/>
> > >
> > > [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3 =
<https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3>
> > >
> > > [3] =
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html>
> > >
> > > [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/>
> > > (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect =
they
> > > should be
> > > soon)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sacm mailing list
> > > sacm@ietf.org <>
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
> > >
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to =
bring this up, but are we forgetting our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=
=E2=80=9D? &nbsp;We borrow, and expand upon, the term from RFC5209. =
&nbsp;Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Assessment: Defined in =
[RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting posture for a set of =
capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such that the =
appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against compliance =
policy.=E2=80=9D &nbsp;Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to =
support other uses of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network =
enforcement, vulnerability detection, license management). &nbsp;The =
phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabilities on the endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: =
hardware and software installed on the endpoint.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">But, in the text proposed, and in =
general, we are talking about collection in the context of =
*pre*-assessment. &nbsp;So, a collection before =E2=80=9Cthe process of =
collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Do we really mean to =
say, pre-evaluation? &nbsp;Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D =
anything? &nbsp;There is data available at the time of evaluation or =
there is not. &nbsp;If there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it =
needs to be grabbed during the next collection opportunity, and we =
indicate whether it=E2=80=99s something we need to grab all the time, or =
just this once.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thoughts?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Adam</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, =
Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" =
class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Off list, I received a suggested update to =
this text from Charles.&nbsp; I was hoping to discuss it at =
yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, however, I ran out of =
time.&nbsp; As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it =
seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the =
same thing.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The new text would read =
as follows (based on the updated draft posted on 6/8/16 [1]).<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">"Supplemental =
collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=E2=80=A6Over =
time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types =
of assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be =
reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This =
avoids the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this =
information during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. =
Likewise, it might be observed that certain information delivered during =
pre-assessment collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be =
useful to stop pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce =
network and processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be =
used to gather this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Please let me know your =
thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21<sup =
class=3D"">st</sup>.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Danny<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[1]</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt</a=
><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Jerome =
Athias [<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, June 07, 2016 =
12:08 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: =
Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an =
Endpoint Management Capability<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">This rewrite is imho better<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Thanks<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: =
none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt =
4.8pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Based on the =
feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help clarify =
things?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"In many cases, the endpoint =
information...Under certain deployment scenarios, as<br class=3D"">the =
vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection =
data over<br class=3D"">time, the endpoint management capability may =
learn about additional detection<br class=3D"">information that it was =
previously not collecting and push that information to the<br =
class=3D"">vulnerability management capability where it can support =
future assessments. The<br class=3D"">pushing of this data may =
potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g., change<br class=3D"">in =
software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">While this potentially creates a coupling =
between the vulnerability management capability and the endpoint =
management capability, as written, I think it will be left to the =
implementer of those capabilities to decide.&nbsp; I think the point is =
just that you could do something like this to improve the vulnerability =
assessment.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If we still don't have =
consensus on this, another approach might be to just remove this text =
all together as I don't think doing so would preclude an implementer =
from supporting functionality like this in their product.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thoughts?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Danny<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&gt; -----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">&gt; From: =
Jerome Athias [mailto:<a class=3D"">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]<br =
class=3D"">&gt; Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br class=3D"">&gt; =
To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D"">&gt; Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">&gt; Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR =
REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5<br class=3D"">&gt; - =
Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br =
class=3D"">&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; While the scenario provided by Adam =
is valid, if your concern is that "the<br class=3D"">&gt; information =
beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint<br class=3D"">&gt; =
information":<br class=3D"">&gt; I don't see a scenario where an =
endpoint management capability would have<br class=3D"">&gt; to push =
-supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment<br =
class=3D"">&gt; capability (what would the vulnerability assessment =
capability do with<br class=3D"">&gt; 'unknown' additional =
information)<br class=3D"">&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; So I think the issue =
is to change "the information beyond that" to something<br class=3D"">&gt;=
 like "the updated information"<br class=3D"">&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt;<br =
class=3D"">&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, =
Dan &lt;<a class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;:<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; =
During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various =
open<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; issues with respect to the Vulnerability =
Assessment Scenario [1] as a<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; result of feedback =
that we received on the draft which you can see<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; =
here [2][3].&nbsp; The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found =
here [4].<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; One issue that we didn=E2=80=99=
t have a chance to discuss because we ran out<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; of =
time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt; ability to push supplemental endpoint information =
to the vulnerability<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; assessment =
capability.&nbsp; This question came out of a review of the<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt; following text from the Vulnerability Assessment =
Scenario (specifically the<br class=3D"">&gt; last sentence).<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt; =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information =
needed to determine an<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; endpoint=E2=80=99s =
vulnerability status will have been previously<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; collected by the Endpoint Management =
Capability and available in a<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; Repository. =
However, in other cases, the necessary<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt; endpoint information will not be readily available =
in a Repository and<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; a targeted collection will =
be necessary.&nbsp; Of course,<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt; an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer =
to<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; enable operators to perform targeted =
collection under<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; certain =
circumstances, even when sufficient information can be<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt; provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; may be freshness =
requirements for information). Targeted collection of<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt; endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; assessment does not =
necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerability<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt; assessment capability.&nbsp; Under certain deployment<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; scenarios, once the =
necessary detection information is known, the<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; =
information beyond that which is available in the endpoint<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; management capability can =
be pushed to the vulnerability assessment<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; =
capability by the endpoint whenever that information<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; changes.=E2=80=9D<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt; Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt; endpoint management capability to the vulnerability =
assessment<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; capability is actually possible =
because it would not necessarily know<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; what =
information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt; (in which case it is probably considered a =
pull)?&nbsp; Is there a<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; situation where the =
endpoint would know, in advance, what additional<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; =
information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting =
it?<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; If you have any thoughts on this issue, =
please provide feedback by May<br class=3D"">&gt; 31st.<br class=3D"">&gt;=
 &gt; We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for =
June 8th.<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; Thanks,<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; Danny<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; =
[1]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/"=
 target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenari=
o/</a><br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; [2]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; [3]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.htm=
l</a><br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; [4]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/<=
/a><br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; (looks like the slides are not available =
just yet, but, I suspect they<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt; should be<br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt; soon)<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt; _______________________________________________<br class=3D"">&gt; =
&gt; sacm mailing list<br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br =
class=3D"">&gt; &gt;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></blockquote></div></div></div><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">sacm mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></span></div></bl=
ockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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Subject: [sacm] Fwd: IETF 96 Preliminary Agenda
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In case you=E2=80=99ve missed it=E2=80=94preliminary agenda for 96 has =
been published.  Looks like we=E2=80=99ve drawn, for now, some favorable =
slots on Monday and Friday morning.

> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: IETF Agenda <agenda@ietf.org>
> Subject: IETF 96 Preliminary Agenda
> Date: June 17, 2016 at 12:53:07 PM CDT
> To: "IETF Announcement List" <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: 96all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org
> Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org, IETF Agenda <agenda@ietf.org>
>=20
> The IETF 96 Preliminary Agenda has been posted. The final agenda will =
be published on Friday, June 24, 2016.
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.html
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.txt
>=20
> NOTE: We are continuing the experiment to have sessions begin at 10:00 =
based on positive community feedback.
>=20
> More information regarding IETF 96 in Berlin is located here: =
https://www.ietf.org/meeting/96/index.html
>=20
> Thank you!
>=20
> IETF Secretariat
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">In case you=E2=80=99ve missed it=E2=80=94preliminary agenda =
for 96 has been published. &nbsp;Looks like we=E2=80=99ve drawn, for =
now, some favorable slots on Monday and Friday morning.<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">IETF Agenda &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agenda@ietf.org" class=3D"">agenda@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">IETF 96 =
Preliminary Agenda</b><br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">June 17, 2016 at 12:53:07 PM =
CDT<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">"IETF Announcement List" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ietf-announce@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ietf-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:96all@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">96all@ietf.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:ietf@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ietf@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Reply-To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:ietf@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ietf@ietf.org</a>, IETF Agenda &lt;<a =
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 IETF 96 Preliminary Agenda has been posted. The final agenda will be =
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class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.html</a> <br =
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class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.txt</a> <br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">NOTE: We are continuing the experiment to have =
sessions begin at 10:00 based on positive community feedback. <br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">More information regarding IETF 96 in Berlin =
is located here: <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/meeting/96/index.html" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/meeting/96/index.html</a><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thank you! <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">IETF =
Secretariat<br class=3D""><br =
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Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 09:38:16 +0300
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From: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
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Cc: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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IMHO the new text is improved, well done
Meantime, Adam's point needs to be reviewed regarding "pre" something
Moreover I changed a bit my mind thinking about this scenario:
1) unauthenticated assessment (voluntary or because credentials unknown/not
available)
2) add of credentials in the endpoint management (need for push? For
authenticated assessment)
3) updates of the credentials (push or pull to/by endpoint assessment)

Sorry if it's not valid scenario

On Thursday, 16 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I was
> hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, howe=
ver, I ran
> out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it
> seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the
> same thing.
>
>
>
> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted on
> 6/8/16 [1]).
>
>
>
> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=E2=
=80=A6Over
> time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types =
of
> assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be
> reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This avoid=
s
> the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this information
> during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it mig=
ht
> be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment
> collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop
> pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and
> processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to gath=
er
> this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>
>
>
> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21
> st.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','athiasjerome@gmail.com');>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sacm@ietf.org');>
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
>
>
> This rewrite is imho better
>
> Thanks
>
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>> wrote:
>
> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help
> clarify things?
>
> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment
> scenarios, as
> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection
> data over
> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional
> detection
> information that it was previously not collecting and push that
> information to the
> vulnerability management capability where it can support future
> assessments. The
> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,
> change
> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>
> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability
> management capability and the endpoint management capability, as written,=
 I
> think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.
> I think the point is just that you could do something like this to improv=
e
> the vulnerability assessment.
>
> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be to
> just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would preclu=
de
> an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
> > To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> > Cc: sacm@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5
> > - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
> >
> > While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that
> "the
> > information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
> > information":
> > I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would ha=
ve
> > to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
> > capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with
> > 'unknown' additional information)
> >
> > So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
> something
> > like "the updated information"
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
> > > During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed vari=
ous open
> > > issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a
> > > result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
> > > here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here =
[4].
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we =
ran out
> > > of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the
> > > ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerabilit=
y
> > > assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
> > > following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
> (specifically the
> > last sentence).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine =
an
> > > endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
> > >
> > > collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> > > Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
> > >
> > > endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository an=
d
> > > a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
> > >
> > > an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to
> > > enable operators to perform targeted collection under
> > >
> > > certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
> > > provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
> > >
> > > may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection o=
f
> > > endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
> > >
> > > assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerabilit=
y
> > > assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
> > >
> > > scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> > > information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
> > >
> > > management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
> > > capability by the endpoint whenever that information
> > >
> > > changes.=E2=80=9D
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
> > > endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
> > > capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know
> > > what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it
> > > (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
> > > situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional
> > > information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting i=
t?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by Ma=
y
> > 31st.
> > > We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June
> 8th.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Danny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
> > >
> > > [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
> > >
> > > [3] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
> > >
> > > [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/
> > > (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect the=
y
> > > should be
> > > soon)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sacm mailing list
> > > sacm@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> > >
>
>

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IMHO the new text is improved, well done<div>Meantime, Adam&#39;s point nee=
ds to be reviewed regarding &quot;pre&quot; something</div><div>Moreover I =
changed a bit my mind thinking about this scenario:</div><div>1) unauthenti=
cated assessment (voluntary or because credentials unknown/not available)</=
div><div>2) add of credentials in the endpoint management (need for push? F=
or authenticated assessment)</div><div>3) updates of the credentials (push =
or pull to/by endpoint assessment)<br><br>Sorry if it&#39;s not valid scena=
rio=C2=A0<br><br>On Thursday, 16 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Off list, I received a suggested upda=
te to this text from Charles.=C2=A0 I was hoping to discuss it at yesterday=
=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, however, I ran out of time.=C2=A0
 As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it seemed clearer=
 and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the same thing.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The new text would read as follows (b=
ased on the updated draft posted on 6/8/16 [1]).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&quot;Supplemental collection of endp=
oint information for the purposes of=E2=80=A6Over time, some new pieces of =
information that are needed during common types of assessments
 might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be reconfigured to have=
 this information delivered automatically. This avoids the need for regular=
 supplemental collections to gather this information during assessments, st=
reamlining the assessment process.
 Likewise, it might be observed that certain information delivered during p=
re-assessment collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful t=
o stop pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and =
processing overhead. Instead, supplemental
 collection can be used to gather this data on the rare occasions when it i=
s needed.&quot;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Please let me know your thoughts on t=
his proposed text by Tuesday July 21<sup>st</sup>.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[1]</span>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#1f497d"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scen=
ario-00.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln=
-scenario-00.txt</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Jerome Athias [mailto:<a href=
=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;athiasjerome@gmail.com&#39;);"=
 target=3D"_blank">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&=
#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;sacm@ietf.or=
g&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Is=
sue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This rewrite is imho better<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<br>
<br>
On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#=
39;cvml&#39;,&#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite o=
f the paragraph help clarify things?<br>
<br>
&quot;In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment sc=
enarios, as<br>
the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection d=
ata over<br>
time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional detecti=
on<br>
information that it was previously not collecting and push that information=
 to the<br>
vulnerability management capability where it can support future assessments=
. The<br>
pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g., chang=
e<br>
in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.).&quot;<br=
>
<br>
While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability managem=
ent capability and the endpoint management capability, as written, I think =
it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.=C2=A0 I=
 think the point is just that you could
 do something like this to improve the vulnerability assessment.<br>
<br>
If we still don&#39;t have consensus on this, another approach might be to =
just remove this text all together as I don&#39;t think doing so would prec=
lude an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their produc=
t.<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Jerome Athias [mailto:<a>athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br>
&gt; To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a>dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a>sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issu=
e #5<br>
&gt; - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that =
&quot;the<br>
&gt; information beyond that&quot; would be &quot;supplemental endpoint<br>
&gt; information&quot;:<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t see a scenario where an endpoint management capability wou=
ld have<br>
&gt; to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment<br>
&gt; capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with=
<br>
&gt; &#39;unknown&#39; additional information)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So I think the issue is to change &quot;the information beyond that&qu=
ot; to something<br>
&gt; like &quot;the updated information&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan &lt;<a>dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt=
;:<br>
&gt; &gt; During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed =
various open<br>
&gt; &gt; issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] =
as a<br>
&gt; &gt; result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can se=
e<br>
&gt; &gt; here [2][3].=C2=A0 The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be fo=
und here [4].<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because=
 we ran out<br>
&gt; &gt; of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has =
the<br>
&gt; &gt; ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerab=
ility<br>
&gt; &gt; assessment capability.=C2=A0 This question came out of a review o=
f the<br>
&gt; &gt; following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario (specif=
ically the<br>
&gt; last sentence).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determ=
ine an<br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously=
<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in =
a<br>
&gt; &gt; Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repositor=
y and<br>
&gt; &gt; a targeted collection will be necessary.=C2=A0 Of course,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer=
 to<br>
&gt; &gt; enable operators to perform targeted collection under<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be<br=
>
&gt; &gt; provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collecti=
on of<br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerab=
ility<br>
&gt; &gt; assessment capability.=C2=A0 Under certain deployment<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the=
<br>
&gt; &gt; information beyond that which is available in the endpoint<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessme=
nt<br>
&gt; &gt; capability by the endpoint whenever that information<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; changes.=E2=80=9D<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the<=
br>
&gt; &gt; endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment<br=
>
&gt; &gt; capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily =
know<br>
&gt; &gt; what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting =
it<br>
&gt; &gt; (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?=C2=A0 Is there =
a<br>
&gt; &gt; situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additio=
nal<br>
&gt; &gt; information is needed for an assessment without a server requesti=
ng it?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback b=
y May<br>
&gt; 31st.<br>
&gt; &gt; We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for Ju=
ne 8th.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Danny<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm=
-vuln-scenario/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/p=
ull/3" target=3D"_blank">
https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [3] <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current=
/msg03958.html" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [4] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-20=
16-sacm-3-1/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/</a><br>
&gt; &gt; (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect=
 they<br>
&gt; &gt; should be<br>
&gt; &gt; soon)<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; sacm mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; <a>sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--001a113d16365550a6053587b7c1--


From nobody Sat Jun 18 04:32:52 2016
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Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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This "pre-collection" could be in overlap with the already defined 
discovery task, which handles the un-targeted detection and re-detection 
of target endpoints, providing a basis for the collection task (in cases 
where the collector does not reside on the target endpoint).

If "pre-collection" is in fact the first targeted collection and the 
following supplemental collections are just further targeted 
collections, then those are all simply collection tasks regarding a 
target endpoint, which are aligned in a specific sequence due to an 
implied workflow - which we should make explicit.

At the moment, the term "collection" is associated with target 
endpoints. Maybe we do not want that? Maybe, a SACM component could 
"collect", for example, "reference values"/"could state" in the form of 
endpoint attributes, such as SWID provided by vendors stored in a 
repository?

It seems to me that we are talking about:

- endpoint attributes from or about a target endpoint (is-state)
- endpoint attributes from a repository (could-state / should-state)
- guidance (e.g. the how to collect, the where to collect from, specific 
sequence of tasks, etc.)

In some cases, all of three of them could be the exactly same content (a 
stale and overused but valid example: an IP-address with subnet 
descriptor), but that information element can be used for all three 
purposes - depending on the context.

It is important, I think, to specify the intended input and output of 
tasks - and by that what SACM components provide and consume in the end 
- while taking into account that three (or maybe there are more) 
contexts of information elements.

Grüße,

Henk



On 06/18/2016 12:14 AM, Adam Montville wrote:
> I really don’t want to be the one to bring this up, but are we
> forgetting our definition of “assessment”?  We borrow, and expand upon,
> the term from RFC5209.  Here’s what our terminology draft says:
>
> Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as “the process of collecting posture
> for a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall)
> such that the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against
> compliance policy.”  Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to
> support other uses of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network
> enforcement, vulnerability detection, license management).  The phrase
> “set of capabilities on the endpoint” includes: hardware and software
> installed on the endpoint.
>
> But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about
> collection in the context of *pre*-assessment.  So, a collection before
> “the process of collecting posture…”, which seems off to me.
>
> Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?  Or, do we need “pre”
> anything?  There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is
> not.  If there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be
> grabbed during the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether
> it’s something we need to grab all the time, or just this once.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
>> <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I
>> was hoping to discuss it at yesterday’s virtual interim meeting,
>> however, I ran out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the
>> updated text as it seemed clearer and more concise than what I had
>> proposed, but, says the same thing.
>> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted
>> on 6/8/16 [1]).
>> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes
>> of…Over time, some new pieces of information that are needed during
>> common types of assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment
>> collection can be reconfigured to have this information delivered
>> automatically. This avoids the need for regular supplemental
>> collections to gather this information during assessments,
>> streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it might be observed
>> that certain information delivered during pre-assessment collection is
>> rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop pre-assessment
>> collection of this information to reduce network and processing
>> overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to gather this
>> data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July
>> 21^st .
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Danny
>> [1]https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt
>> *From:*Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:*Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
>> *To:*Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>
>> *Cc:*sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:*Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>> Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>> This rewrite is imho better
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
>> <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the
>>     paragraph help clarify things?
>>
>>     "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain
>>     deployment scenarios, as
>>     the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability
>>     detection data over
>>     time, the endpoint management capability may learn about
>>     additional detection
>>     information that it was previously not collecting and push that
>>     information to the
>>     vulnerability management capability where it can support future
>>     assessments. The
>>     pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger
>>     (e.g., change
>>     in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>>
>>     While this potentially creates a coupling between the
>>     vulnerability management capability and the endpoint management
>>     capability, as written, I think it will be left to the implementer
>>     of those capabilities to decide.  I think the point is just that
>>     you could do something like this to improve the vulnerability
>>     assessment.
>>
>>     If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might
>>     be to just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so
>>     would preclude an implementer from supporting functionality like
>>     this in their product.
>>
>>     Thoughts?
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     Danny
>>
>>     > -----Original Message-----
>>     > From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
>>     > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
>>     > To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
>>     > Cc:sacm@ietf.org
>>     > Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment
>>     Scenario Issue #5
>>     > - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>>     >
>>     > While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is
>>     that "the
>>     > information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
>>     > information":
>>     > I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability
>>     would have
>>     > to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
>>     > capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability
>>     do with
>>     > 'unknown' additional information)
>>     >
>>     > So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that"
>>     to something
>>     > like "the updated information"
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>>     > > During yesterday’s virtual interim meeting, we discussed
>>     various open
>>     > > issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>>     [1] as a
>>     > > result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
>>     > > here [2][3].  The slide’s from the meeting can be found here [4].
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > One issue that we didn’t have a chance to discuss because we
>>     ran out
>>     > > of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability
>>     has the
>>     > > ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the
>>     vulnerability
>>     > > assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
>>     > > following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>>     (specifically the
>>     > last sentence).
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > “In many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine an
>>     > > endpoint’s vulnerability status will have been previously
>>     > >
>>     > > collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
>>     > > Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
>>     > >
>>     > > endpoint information will not be readily available in a
>>     Repository and
>>     > > a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
>>     > >
>>     > > an implementation of an endpoint management capability may
>>     prefer to
>>     > > enable operators to perform targeted collection under
>>     > >
>>     > > certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
>>     > > provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
>>     > >
>>     > > may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted
>>     collection of
>>     > > endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
>>     > >
>>     > > assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the
>>     vulnerability
>>     > > assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
>>     > >
>>     > > scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
>>     > > information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
>>     > >
>>     > > management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability
>>     assessment
>>     > > capability by the endpoint whenever that information
>>     > >
>>     > > changes.”
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
>>     > > endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
>>     > > capability is actually possible because it would not
>>     necessarily know
>>     > > what information it needs to push prior to the server
>>     requesting it
>>     > > (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
>>     > > situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what
>>     additional
>>     > > information is needed for an assessment without a server
>>     requesting it?
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide
>>     feedback by May
>>     > 31st.
>>     > > We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for
>>     June 8th.
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > Thanks,
>>     > >
>>     > > Danny
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     [1]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
>>     > >
>>     > > [2]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     [3]https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
>>     > >
>>     > > [4]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/
>>     > > (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I
>>     suspect they
>>     > > should be
>>     > > soon)
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > _______________________________________________
>>     > > sacm mailing list
>>     > >sacm@ietf.org
>>     > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>     > >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
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From nobody Sat Jun 18 04:37:03 2016
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 13:36:51 +0200
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Is SACM based on a grid?
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+1 for fleshing out discovery, registration and other management-plane 
capabilities/functions.

On 06/17/2016 11:52 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
> Is use of the term “grid” getting in the way?  As a working group, we have let the architecture draft expire.  That draft described an architecture with component discovery and registration as Henk describes.  That draft also described an architecture that can be configured as a consolidation architecture, as Charles put it during the virtual interim.
>
> The drafts we have adopted as a working group presume a NEA architecture as a starting point, and this does not seem contrary to the spirit of our expired architecture draft, nor does it seem contrary to the content of our requirements draft.
>
> It seems that what we have not yet done is to satisfy discovery, registration, and probably other requirements.  Such requirement may not be met by NEA’s.  If not, then it’s the job of the working group to satisfy those requirements by extending NEA (at least that is implied by our adoption of, at least, the SWID over PA-TNC draft).
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 17, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
>>
>> My intend was to highlight that any SACM component should be able to discovery any other SACM component and find out how to consume the data it provides.
>>
>> In regard to the use case of Ice Station Zebra, an example:
>> There is a SACM component on the remote site. That component is unavailable/unreachable to the campus site for most of the time. But if there is connectivity, the SACM component at the remote site can register again at a broker on the campus site, publish data to the SACM domain because it is able to register and then becomes unavailable again.
>>
>> If a grid protocol would be used, data published in the available windows could be consumed by any other SACM component or new guidance could be discovered and then requested by the remote SACM component.
>>
>> If an end-to-end protocol is used, data published is transported to a single SACM component, which again can provide it to other SACM components (because this capability can be discovered and used by other SACM components).
>>
>> The choke-point scenario does not inhibit the use of a grid architecture, but that was actually not the point I had in mind when I mentioned the grid architecture. Maybe my words were chosen poorly.
>>
>> My point was: It is vital for SACM components to be able to provide data in a standardized way so that other SACM components can consume it without the mapping/parsing/homogenization overhead that is still very common at every turn. This requires to things:
>>
>> 1) at minimum, SACM components require a base set of standardized information elements that can be used to refer to "data of interest" in the SACM domain (which are provided by the information model).
>>
>> 2) the data a component provides has to be consumable by other components
>>
>> If a collector does not produce at least something every other component can consume, it is not a SACM component. But thats absolutely okay - if that kind of collector always comes with a counterpart that provides the functions/capabilities of a SACM component. In this case the SACM component might be a composite of sub-components? And this could be an addition to the part of the architecture that defines SACM components?
>>
>>
>> Grüße,
>>
>> Henk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> sacm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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All:

Thanks to Danny and Charles for compiling detailed notes, which are =
summarized and posted here: =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/06/15/sacm/minutes/minutes-i=
nterim-2016-sacm-4 =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/06/15/sacm/minutes/minutes-=
interim-2016-sacm-4>

Kind regards,

Adam

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">All:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks to Danny and Charles for compiling detailed notes, which are summarized and posted here:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/06/15/sacm/minutes/minutes-interim-2016-sacm-4" class="">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/06/15/sacm/minutes/minutes-interim-2016-sacm-4</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Kind regards,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Adam</div></body></html>
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Cc: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>, "<sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Hi.  Because we would like to move our requirements through IESG, I =
would like to drive this to ground.   There are three things that =
we=E2=80=99re talking about doing when it comes to selecting a data =
model for software identification:

1) Extensibility
2) Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)
3) Completeness

There is a data model requirement for (1) - DM-014 Attribute =
Extensibility.  There does not seem to be a requirement for =
accessibility (2) or completeness (3).

My question is this: Do we need such requirements?

I would assert that we do not.  Accessibility is something that we will =
always judge by virtue of the fact that we operate within the culture of =
the IETF.  Completeness is not something we need to put into the =
requirements draft by virtue of DM-002 Data Model Structure, which =
indicates that a data model can be structured monolithically or composed =
of modules/sub-modules=E2=80=94this seems to imply that we could be ok =
with =E2=80=9Ccompleteness=E2=80=9D potentially coming from more than =
one place.

Thoughts?

Adam


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Re: Requirements =E2=80=93 is this not what =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/> is =
about? Maybe it needs an update.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Dan
>=20
>=20
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Adam Montville
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 2:25 PM
> To: Gunnar Engelbach
> Cc: <sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>; tony@yaanatech.com =
<mailto:tony@yaanatech.com>
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of =
draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
>=20
> This seems like a fine approach.
>=20
> As part of that third item, I=E2=80=99d like to get requirements from =
our own drafts as well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability =
scenario, but also considering our requirements and other drafts.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach =
<gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com =
<mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a =
better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I =
could use your help in identifying other good candidates and what will =
be necessary to support as many of them as possible.
>=20
> What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather =
some requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is =
the best from among those that are good enough.  If any.
>=20
> But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated generally, =
I really only have three:
>=20
>   1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if =
necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on =
the good graces of the current owner
>=20
>   2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any =
users)
>=20
>   3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent =
the other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into =
fields that weren't really meant for that type of data)
>=20
>=20
> I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free to =
chime in.  However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep =
this list the quicker we can grind through it.
>=20
>=20
> --gun
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
> Hi Adam,
>=20
> A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
> in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
> solutions to the problem of software identification have
> been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
> out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
> SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
> arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
> in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
> Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
> accomplishes.
>=20
> --tony
>=20
> On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
> All:
>=20
> After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the =
discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge =
that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that =
there is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no =
other solutions to the problem of software identification have been =
submitted to the working group [1].
>=20
> Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in particular, =
appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles Schmidt and =
Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  We believe =
that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to this draft, =
so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
>=20
> Kind regards,
>=20
> Adam & Karen
>=20
> [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative =
submissions
> [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and =
Gunnar will hold the pen.
>=20
>=20
> On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org =
<mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>> wrote:
>=20
> Folks,
>=20
> As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the official =
call for adoption of =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/> as =
a SACM working group document.
>=20
> Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of this =
action to the mailing list.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Karen and Adam
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi. &nbsp;Because we would like to move our requirements =
through IESG, I would like to drive this to ground. &nbsp; There are =
three things that we=E2=80=99re talking about doing when it comes to =
selecting a data model for software identification:<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1) Extensibility</div><div class=3D"">2) =
Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)</div><div class=3D"">3) =
Completeness</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">There is a data model requirement for (1) - DM-014 Attribute =
Extensibility. &nbsp;There does not seem to be a requirement for =
accessibility (2) or completeness (3). &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">My question is this: Do we need such =
requirements?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
would assert that we do not. &nbsp;Accessibility is something that we =
will always judge by virtue of the fact that we operate within the =
culture of the IETF. &nbsp;Completeness is not something we need to put =
into the requirements draft by virtue of DM-002 Data Model Structure, =
which indicates that a data model can be structured monolithically or =
composed of modules/sub-modules=E2=80=94this seems to imply that we =
could be ok with =E2=80=9Ccompleteness=E2=80=9D potentially coming from =
more than one place. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
 class=3D"">Thoughts?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Adam</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dromasca@avaya.com" class=3D"">dromasca@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Re: Requirements =E2=80=93 is this not =
what<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/<=
/a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>is about? Maybe it =
needs an update.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Dan<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>sacm [<a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Adam =
Montville<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, June 10, 2016 2:25 =
PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gunnar Engelbach<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:tony@yaanatech.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">tony@yaanatech.com</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [sacm] Call for =
adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">This seems like a fine approach.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">As part of that third item, I=E2=80=99d =
like to get requirements from our own drafts as well, starting perhaps =
with the vulnerability scenario, but also considering our requirements =
and other drafts. &nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On =
Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hey =
Tony, funny thing that you should say that.&nbsp; You seem to have a =
better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I =
could use your help in identifying other good candidates and what will =
be necessary to support as many of them as possible.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- =
gather some requirements and then see from among the existing efforts =
which is the best from among those that are good enough.&nbsp; If =
any.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">But first is a matter of setting the =
requirements.&nbsp; Stated generally, I really only have three:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; 1)&nbsp; Is extensible -- as a fork =
outside of the current owner, if necessary, to be sure it continues to =
meet SACM needs without relying on the good graces of the current =
owner<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; 2)&nbsp; Readily accessible =
(eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any users)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; 3)&nbsp; The most complete (that is, closest to being =
able to represent the other tag types without loss of data or =
shoe-horning data into fields that weren't really meant for that type of =
data)<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I'm sure Charles, et =
al, will have other requirements, so feel free to chime in.&nbsp; =
However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep this list the =
quicker we can grind through it.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">--gun<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Hi Adam,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">A good solution.&nbsp; =
Charles and Gunnar should also engage<br class=3D"">in some proactive =
outreach.&nbsp; Simply stating that "no other<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">solutions to =
the problem of software identification have<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">been =
submitted" is preposterous when there are so many<br class=3D"">out =
there.&nbsp; IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with<br =
class=3D"">SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in =
an<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">arena =
where so many almost identical activities are occurring<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">in other =
venues where there is far greater industry participation.<br =
class=3D"">Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">accomplishes.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">--tony<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">All:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">After several on-list discussions, the last virtual =
interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the =
chairs acknowledge that there are some key concerns with this draft, but =
also see that there is rough consensus for adoption. &nbsp;We =
additionally note that no other solutions to the problem of software =
identification have been submitted to the working group [1].<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Because the topic of software =
identification, and SWID in particular, appears to be a contentious one, =
we are designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of =
the working group draft [2]. &nbsp;We believe that Charles and Gunnar =
will bring the necessary balance to this draft, so that the key concerns =
are sufficiently addressed.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Kind regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Adam &amp; Karen<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">[1] This draft adoption does not preclude future =
alternative submissions<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">[2] Note that =
original authors will remain authors, but Charles and Gunnar will hold =
the pen.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On May 17, 2016, at =
11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Folks,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">As discussed during our last couple of =
meetings, this is the official call for adoption of&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-pat=
nc/</a>&nbsp;as a SACM working group document.&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Please reply with any comments or =
concerns along your support of this action to the mailing =
list.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Karen and Adam<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sacm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
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class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">sacm mailing =
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href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
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style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';" class=3D""><a =
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class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
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0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">sacm mailing =
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href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style=3D"color: =
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0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 09:41:33 -0400
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To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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Hi,

I share Adam's distaste for "pre-" anything.

Perhaps "external collection" - defined as simply using any non-SACM
protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this case,
e.g., a NEA Server)?

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
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On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com=
>
wrote:

> I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, but are we fo=
rgetting
> our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?  We borrow, and expand up=
on, the term from
> RFC5209.  Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:
>
> Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting po=
sture for
> a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such tha=
t
> the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against compliance
> policy.=E2=80=9D  Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to support =
other uses
> of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, vulnerability
> detection, license management).  The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabilities =
on the
> endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the endpoi=
nt.
>
> But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about collectio=
n
> in the context of *pre*-assessment.  So, a collection before =E2=80=9Cthe=
 process
> of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.
>
> Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?  Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=
=80=9D anything?
> There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.  If
> there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed duri=
ng
> the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s som=
ething we
> need to grab all the time, or just this once.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>
> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I was
> hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, howe=
ver, I ran
> out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it
> seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the
> same thing.
>
> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted on
> 6/8/16 [1]).
>
> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=E2=
=80=A6Over
> time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types =
of
> assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be
> reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This avoid=
s
> the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this information
> during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it mig=
ht
> be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment
> collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop
> pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and
> processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to gath=
er
> this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>
> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21
> st.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt
>
>
>
> *From:* Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
> This rewrite is imho better
> Thanks
>
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>
> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help
> clarify things?
>
> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment
> scenarios, as
> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection
> data over
> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional
> detection
> information that it was previously not collecting and push that
> information to the
> vulnerability management capability where it can support future
> assessments. The
> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,
> change
> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>
> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability
> management capability and the endpoint management capability, as written,=
 I
> think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.
> I think the point is just that you could do something like this to improv=
e
> the vulnerability assessment.
>
> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be to
> just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would preclu=
de
> an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
> > To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> > Cc: sacm@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5
> > - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
> >
> > While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that
> "the
> > information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
> > information":
> > I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would ha=
ve
> > to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
> > capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with
> > 'unknown' additional information)
> >
> > So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
> something
> > like "the updated information"
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
> > > During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed vari=
ous open
> > > issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a
> > > result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
> > > here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here =
[4].
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we =
ran out
> > > of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the
> > > ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerabilit=
y
> > > assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
> > > following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
> (specifically the
> > last sentence).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine =
an
> > > endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
> > >
> > > collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> > > Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
> > >
> > > endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository an=
d
> > > a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
> > >
> > > an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to
> > > enable operators to perform targeted collection under
> > >
> > > certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
> > > provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
> > >
> > > may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection o=
f
> > > endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
> > >
> > > assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerabilit=
y
> > > assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
> > >
> > > scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> > > information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
> > >
> > > management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
> > > capability by the endpoint whenever that information
> > >
> > > changes.=E2=80=9D
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
> > > endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
> > > capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know
> > > what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it
> > > (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
> > > situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional
> > > information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting i=
t?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by Ma=
y
> > 31st.
> > > We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June
> 8th.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Danny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
> > >
> > > [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
> > >
> > > [3] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
> > >
> > > [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/
> > > (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect the=
y
> > > should be
> > > soon)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sacm mailing list
> > > sacm@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> > >
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I share Adam&#39;s distast=
e for &quot;pre-&quot; anything.<br><br></div>Perhaps &quot;external collec=
tion&quot; - defined as simply using any non-SACM <br>protocol to forward e=
ndpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this case,<br></div><div>e.g., a NE=
A Server)?<br><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>- Ira<br><br></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_sign=
ature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Mu=
sician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions W=
G<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Pri=
nter Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol W=
G<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / Hi=
gh North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.goog=
le.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/b=
lueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.=
google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/sit=
e/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=
=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=
=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><br><div style=3D"displ=
ay:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:=
inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div=
>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montvi=
lle <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">adam.w.montville@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>I really do=
n=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, but are we forgetting our =
definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0 We borrow, and expand upo=
n, the term from RFC5209.=C2=A0 Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft s=
ays:</div><div><br></div><div>Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9C=
the process of collecting posture for a set of capabilities on the endpoint=
 (e.g. host-based firewall) such that the appropriate validators may evalua=
te the posture against compliance policy.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Within SACM the us=
e of the term is expanded to support other uses of collected posture (e.g. =
reporting, network enforcement, vulnerability detection, license management=
).=C2=A0 The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabilities on the endpoint=E2=80=9D i=
ncludes: hardware and software installed on the endpoint.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about col=
lection in the context of *pre*-assessment.=C2=A0 So, a collection before =
=E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems o=
ff to me.</div><div><br></div><div>Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation=
?=C2=A0 Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D anything?=C2=A0 There is data =
available at the time of evaluation or there is not.=C2=A0 If there is not,=
 we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed during the next col=
lection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s something we need=
 to grab all the time, or just this once.</div><div><br></div><div>Thoughts=
?</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>A=
dam</div></font></span><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div=
><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Hayn=
es, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@=
mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;=
font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;t=
ext-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word=
-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-fam=
ily:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Off list, I received a suggest=
ed update to this text from Charles.=C2=A0 I was hoping to discuss it at ye=
sterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, however, I ran out of time.=C2=
=A0 As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it seemed clea=
rer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the same thing.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12p=
t;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-fami=
ly:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The new text would read as foll=
ows (based on the updated draft posted on 6/8/16 [1]).<u></u><u></u></span>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39=
;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New =
Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&quot;Supplemental collection of endpoint informa=
tion for the purposes of=E2=80=A6Over time, some new pieces of information =
that are needed during common types of assessments might be identified. Pre=
-assessment collection can be reconfigured to have this information deliver=
ed automatically. This avoids the need for regular supplemental collections=
 to gather this information during assessments, streamlining the assessment=
 process. Likewise, it might be observed that certain information delivered=
 during pre-assessment collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be=
 useful to stop pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce net=
work and processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used =
to gather this data on the rare occasions when it is needed.&quot;<u></u><u=
></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font=
-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#3=
9;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Please let me know your thoughts on t=
his proposed text by Tuesday July 21<sup>st</sup>.<u></u><u></u></span></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Tim=
es New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roma=
n&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks,<br><br>Danny<u></u><u></u></span></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New R=
oman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,s=
erif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(31,73,125)">[1]</span><span>=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href=3D"https://www.i=
etf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt" style=3D"color:purple;text=
-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf=
-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt</a><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,se=
rif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in =
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;fo=
nt-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;b=
order-left-color:blue;border-left-width:1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div=
><div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,22=
5);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0=
.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><=
span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>=C2=A0</=
span>Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]<span>=C2=A0</span><br><b>Sent:</b><=
span>=C2=A0</span>Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM<br><b>To:</b><span>=C2=A0=
</span>Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b><span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><s=
pan>=C2=A0</span>Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I=
ssue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<u></u><u>=
</u></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-siz=
e:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Ti=
mes New Roman&#39;,serif">This rewrite is imho better<u></u><u></u></div><d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Ti=
mes New Roman&#39;,serif">Thanks<br><br>On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Da=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" style=3D"color:purple;text-decor=
ation:underline" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><=
u></u></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-l=
eft-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;ma=
rgin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12p=
t;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif">Based on the feedback, would=
 the following rewrite of the paragraph help clarify things?<br><br>&quot;I=
n many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment scenarios=
, as<br>the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability det=
ection data over<br>time, the endpoint management capability may learn abou=
t additional detection<br>information that it was previously not collecting=
 and push that information to the<br>vulnerability management capability wh=
ere it can support future assessments. The<br>pushing of this data may pote=
ntially be driven by some trigger (e.g., change<br>in software inventory, p=
olicy, network connectivity status, etc.).&quot;<br><br>While this potentia=
lly creates a coupling between the vulnerability management capability and =
the endpoint management capability, as written, I think it will be left to =
the implementer of those capabilities to decide.=C2=A0 I think the point is=
 just that you could do something like this to improve the vulnerability as=
sessment.<br><br>If we still don&#39;t have consensus on this, another appr=
oach might be to just remove this text all together as I don&#39;t think do=
ing so would preclude an implementer from supporting functionality like thi=
s in their product.<br><br>Thoughts?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Danny<br><br>&gt=
; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: Jerome Athias [mailto:<a>athiasj=
erome@gmail.com</a>]<br>&gt; Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br>&gt; =
To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a>dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>&gt; Cc:<span>=C2=A0</s=
pan><a>sacm@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerabil=
ity Assessment Scenario Issue #5<br>&gt; - Change Detection with an Endpoin=
t Management Capability<br>&gt;<br>&gt; While the scenario provided by Adam=
 is valid, if your concern is that &quot;the<br>&gt; information beyond tha=
t&quot; would be &quot;supplemental endpoint<br>&gt; information&quot;:<br>=
&gt; I don&#39;t see a scenario where an endpoint management capability wou=
ld have<br>&gt; to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability ass=
essment<br>&gt; capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capabil=
ity do with<br>&gt; &#39;unknown&#39; additional information)<br>&gt;<br>&g=
t; So I think the issue is to change &quot;the information beyond that&quot=
; to something<br>&gt; like &quot;the updated information&quot;<br>&gt;<br>=
&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan &lt;<a>dhaynes@=
mitre.org</a>&gt;:<br>&gt; &gt; During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim =
meeting, we discussed various open<br>&gt; &gt; issues with respect to the =
Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a<br>&gt; &gt; result of feedback =
that we received on the draft which you can see<br>&gt; &gt; here [2][3].=
=C2=A0 The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here [4].<br>&gt; =
&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; One issue that we didn=E2=80=99=
t have a chance to discuss because we ran out<br>&gt; &gt; of time was whet=
her or not an endpoint management capability has the<br>&gt; &gt; ability t=
o push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability<br>&gt; &gt; =
assessment capability.=C2=A0 This question came out of a review of the<br>&=
gt; &gt; following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario (specifi=
cally the<br>&gt; last sentence).<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br=
>&gt; &gt; =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to deter=
mine an<br>&gt; &gt; endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been=
 previously<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; collected by the Endpoint Management =
Capability and available in a<br>&gt; &gt; Repository. However, in other ca=
ses, the necessary<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; endpoint information will not =
be readily available in a Repository and<br>&gt; &gt; a targeted collection=
 will be necessary.=C2=A0 Of course,<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; an implement=
ation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to<br>&gt; &gt; enabl=
e operators to perform targeted collection under<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; =
certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be<br>&gt; &gt;=
 provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there<br>&gt; &gt;<br=
>&gt; &gt; may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collect=
ion of<br>&gt; &gt; endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<b=
r>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull =
by the vulnerability<br>&gt; &gt; assessment capability.=C2=A0 Under certai=
n deployment<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; scenarios, once the necessary detect=
ion information is known, the<br>&gt; &gt; information beyond that which is=
 available in the endpoint<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; management capability =
can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment<br>&gt; &gt; capability by th=
e endpoint whenever that information<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; changes.=E2=
=80=9D<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Our main questio=
n is whether or not pushing information from the<br>&gt; &gt; endpoint mana=
gement capability to the vulnerability assessment<br>&gt; &gt; capability i=
s actually possible because it would not necessarily know<br>&gt; &gt; what=
 information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it<br>&gt; &gt=
; (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?=C2=A0 Is there a<br>&gt=
; &gt; situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional=
<br>&gt; &gt; information is needed for an assessment without a server requ=
esting it?<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; If you have =
any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May<br>&gt; 31st.<br=
>&gt; &gt; We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for J=
une 8th.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<br>&gt=
; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Danny<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &g=
t; [1]<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline=
" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln=
-scenario/</a><br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; [2]<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"h=
ttps://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3" style=3D"color:purp=
le;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/sacmwg/v=
ulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; [3]<span>=C2=A0<=
/span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg0395=
8.html" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html</a><br>&gt=
; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; [4]<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ie=
tf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/" style=3D"color:purple;text-decora=
tion:underline" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-i=
nterim-2016-sacm-3-1/</a><br>&gt; &gt; (looks like the slides are not avail=
able just yet, but, I suspect they<br>&gt; &gt; should be<br>&gt; &gt; soon=
)<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; ________=
_______________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; sacm mailing list<br>&=
gt; &gt;<span>=C2=A0</span><a>sacm@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; &gt;<span>=C2=A0</s=
pan><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style=3D"color:p=
urple;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>&gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></div><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent=
:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;dis=
play:inline!important">_______________________________________________</spa=
n><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spa=
cing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-spac=
e:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">sacm mailing=
 list</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:=
0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;=
letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;=
white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"><a=
 href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a></span><b=
r style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weig=
ht:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-trans=
form:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:H=
elvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing=
:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:no=
rmal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"><a href=3D"https=
://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div=
></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "Dan (Dan) Romascanu" <dromasca@avaya.com>
References: <17198AFF-DF5A-46BC-B84A-2AAF1717BD90@isoc.org> <EC234EFE-95AB-444B-8A5D-782ADBD60559@gmail.com> <1c99b26c-bdac-5798-1bd9-e957b11ae4bd@yaanatech.com> <db612b00-c11a-88c1-45da-35e0693305e9@ThreatGuard.com> <6062111F-9C39-4C7C-B008-F7E23FED40DE@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA7520D40F@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <E79698DE-B183-4AE1-8F6C-08744E8BFFDF@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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While we're on the topic,

There is an effort in progress to determine a data model for SACM 
endpoint collection.  Software identity information is just a set of 
endpoint attributes.  So is there a reason why software identity is 
treated differently?


--gun


On 6/18/2016 5:38 AM, Adam Montville wrote:
> Hi.  Because we would like to move our requirements through IESG, I 
> would like to drive this to ground.   There are three things that 
> weâ€™re talking about doing when it comes to selecting a data model for 
> software identification:
>
> 1) Extensibility
> 2) Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)
> 3) Completeness
>
> There is a data model requirement for (1) - DM-014 Attribute 
> Extensibility.  There does not seem to be a requirement for 
> accessibility (2) or completeness (3).
>
> My question is this: Do we need such requirements?
>
> I would assert that we do not.  Accessibility is something that we 
> will always judge by virtue of the fact that we operate within the 
> culture of the IETF.  Completeness is not something we need to put 
> into the requirements draft by virtue of DM-002 Data Model Structure, 
> which indicates that a data model can be structured monolithically or 
> composed of modules/sub-modulesâ€”this seems to imply that we could be 
> ok with â€œcompletenessâ€� potentially coming from more than one place.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Adam
>
>
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com 
>> <mailto:dromasca@avaya.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Re: Requirements â€“ is this not 
>> whathttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/is 
>> about? Maybe it needs an update.
>> Regards,
>> Dan
>> *From:*sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org]*On Behalf Of*Adam Montville
>> *Sent:*Friday, June 10, 2016 2:25 PM
>> *To:*Gunnar Engelbach
>> *Cc:*<sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>;tony@yaanatech.com 
>> <mailto:tony@yaanatech.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of 
>> draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
>> This seems like a fine approach.
>> As part of that third item, Iâ€™d like to get requirements from our own 
>> drafts as well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability scenario, but 
>> also considering our requirements and other drafts.
>>
>>     On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach
>>     <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com
>>     <mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have
>>     a better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I
>>     do, so I could use your help in identifying other good candidates
>>     and what will be necessary to support as many of them as possible.
>>
>>     What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach --
>>     gather some requirements and then see from among the existing
>>     efforts which is the best from among those that are good enough. 
>>     If any.
>>
>>     But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated
>>     generally, I really only have three:
>>
>>       1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if
>>     necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without
>>     relying on the good graces of the current owner
>>
>>       2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for
>>     any users)
>>
>>       3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to
>>     represent the other tag types without loss of data or
>>     shoe-horning data into fields that weren't really meant for that
>>     type of data)
>>
>>
>>     I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel
>>     free to chime in. However, I think the simpler and more informal
>>     we can keep this list the quicker we can grind through it.
>>
>>
>>     --gun
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Adam,
>>
>>         A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
>>         in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
>>         solutions to the problem of software identification have
>>         been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
>>         out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
>>         SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
>>         arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
>>         in other venues where there is far greater industry
>>         participation.
>>         Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
>>         accomplishes.
>>
>>         --tony
>>
>>         On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
>>
>>             All:
>>             After several on-list discussions, the last virtual
>>             interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for
>>             adoption, the chairs acknowledge that there are some key
>>             concerns with this draft, but also see that there is
>>             rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that
>>             no other solutions to the problem of software
>>             identification have been submitted to the working group [1].
>>             Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in
>>             particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are
>>             designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as
>>             editors of the working group draft [2].  We believe that
>>             Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to
>>             this draft, so that the key concerns are sufficiently
>>             addressed.
>>             Kind regards,
>>             Adam & Karen
>>             [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future
>>             alternative submissions
>>             [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but
>>             Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.
>>
>>                 On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue
>>                 <odonoghue@isoc.org <mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>> wrote:
>>                 Folks,
>>                 As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this
>>                 is the official call for adoption of
>>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as
>>                 a SACM working group document.
>>                 Please reply with any comments or concerns along your
>>                 support of this action to the mailing list.
>>                 Thanks,
>>                 Karen and Adam
>>                 _______________________________________________
>>                 sacm mailing list
>>                 sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>
>>             sacm mailing list
>>
>>             sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>
>>             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>
>>         sacm mailing list
>>
>>         sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>


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    <br>
    While we're on the topic,<br>
    <br>
    There is an effort in progress to determine a data model for SACM
    endpoint collection.Â  Software identity information is just a set of
    endpoint attributes.Â  So is there a reason why software identity is
    treated differently?<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    --gun<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2016 5:38 AM, Adam Montville
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:E79698DE-B183-4AE1-8F6C-08744E8BFFDF@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      Hi. Â Because we would like to move our requirements through IESG,
      I would like to drive this to ground. Â  There are three things
      that weâ€™re talking about doing when it comes to selecting a data
      model for software identification:
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">1) Extensibility</div>
      <div class="">2) Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)</div>
      <div class="">3) Completeness</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">There is a data model requirement for (1) - DM-014
        Attribute Extensibility. Â There does not seem to be a
        requirement for accessibility (2) or completeness (3). Â </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">My question is this: Do we need such requirements?</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I would assert that we do not. Â Accessibility is
        something that we will always judge by virtue of the fact that
        we operate within the culture of the IETF. Â Completeness is not
        something we need to put into the requirements draft by virtue
        of DM-002 Data Model Structure, which indicates that a data
        model can be structured monolithically or composed of
        modules/sub-modulesâ€”this seems to imply that we could be ok with
        â€œcompletenessâ€� potentially coming from more than one place. Â </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Thoughts?</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Adam</div>
      <div class="">
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <div class="">
            <div>
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div class="">On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Romascanu,
                  Dan (Dan) &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:dromasca@avaya.com" class="">dromasca@avaya.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:</div>
                <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                <div class="">
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                    none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                    word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                      class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class="">Re: Requirements â€“ is this
                        not what<span class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/"
                          style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                          underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/</a></a><span
                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>is
                        about? Maybe it needs an update.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                      class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                      class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class="">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                      class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                      class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class="">Dan<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                      class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                      class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="border-style: none none none solid;
                      border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt;
                      padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="border-style: solid none none;
                          border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
                          border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"
                          class="">
                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                            Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>sacm
                              [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org"
                                style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                                underline;" class="">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span
                                class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><b
                                class="">On Behalf Of<span
                                  class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span></b>Adam
                              Montville<br class="">
                              <b class="">Sent:</b><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>Friday,
                              June 10, 2016 2:25 PM<br class="">
                              <b class="">To:</b><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>Gunnar
                              Engelbach<br class="">
                              <b class="">Cc:</b><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>&lt;<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org"
                                style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                                underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a></a>&gt;;<span
                                class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:tony@yaanatech.com"
                                style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                                underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tony@yaanatech.com">tony@yaanatech.com</a></a><br
                                class="">
                              <b class="">Subject:</b><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>Re:
                              [sacm] Call for adoption of
                              draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM
                              WG document<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                        class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                          class="">This seems like a fine approach.<o:p
                            class=""></o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                          class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                          class="">As part of that third item, Iâ€™d like
                          to get requirements from our own drafts as
                          well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability
                          scenario, but also considering our
                          requirements and other drafts. Â <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                          class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                          class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                        class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                      <div class="">
                        <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
                          margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman', serif;" class="">On Jun 9, 2016,
                              at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com"
                                style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                                underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com">gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com</a></a>&gt;
                              wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                          </div>
                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                            Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm
                                0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Hey Tony, funny thing that you should
                                say that.Â  You seem to have a better
                                awareness of the other efforts going on
                                out there than I do, so I could use your
                                help in identifying other good
                                candidates and what will be necessary to
                                support as many of them as possible.<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                What I'd really like to do is take a
                                more formal approach -- gather some
                                requirements and then see from among the
                                existing efforts which is the best from
                                among those that are good enough.Â  If
                                any.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                But first is a matter of setting the
                                requirements.Â  Stated generally, I
                                really only have three:<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Â  1)Â  Is extensible -- as a fork outside
                                of the current owner, if necessary, to
                                be sure it continues to meet SACM needs
                                without relying on the good graces of
                                the current owner<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Â  2)Â  Readily accessible (eg., spec is
                                not cost prohibitive for any users)<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Â  3)Â  The most complete (that is,
                                closest to being able to represent the
                                other tag types without loss of data or
                                shoe-horning data into fields that
                                weren't really meant for that type of
                                data)<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other
                                requirements, so feel free to chime in.Â 
                                However, I think the simpler and more
                                informal we can keep this list the
                                quicker we can grind through it.<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                --gun<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                              <div class="">
                                <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class="">On
                                  6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski
                                  wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
                                margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm
                                  0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                  font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                  serif;">Hi Adam,<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  A good solution.Â  Charles and Gunnar
                                  should also engage<br class="">
                                  in some proactive outreach.Â  Simply
                                  stating that "no other<span
                                    class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                    class="">
                                  solutions to the problem of software
                                  identification have<span
                                    class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                    class="">
                                  been submitted" is preposterous when
                                  there are so many<br class="">
                                  out there.Â  IMHO, one of the
                                  long-standing problems with<br
                                    class="">
                                  SACM is its institutional and
                                  participatory insularity in an<span
                                    class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                    class="">
                                  arena where so many almost identical
                                  activities are occurring<span
                                    class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                    class="">
                                  in other venues where there is far
                                  greater industry participation.<br
                                    class="">
                                  Ignoring them diminishes the value of
                                  whatever SACM<span
                                    class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                    class="">
                                  accomplishes.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  --tony<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class="">On
                                    2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville
                                    wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
                                  margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">All:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">After several
                                      on-list discussions, the last
                                      virtual interim, and the
                                      discussions surrounding this call
                                      for adoption, the chairs
                                      acknowledge that there are some
                                      key concerns with this draft, but
                                      also see that there is rough
                                      consensus for adoption. Â We
                                      additionally note that no other
                                      solutions to the problem of
                                      software identification have been
                                      submitted to the working group
                                      [1].<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">Because the topic
                                      of software identification, and
                                      SWID in particular, appears to be
                                      a contentious one, we are
                                      designating Charles Schmidt and
                                      Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the
                                      working group draft [2]. Â We
                                      believe that Charles and Gunnar
                                      will bring the necessary balance
                                      to this draft, so that the key
                                      concerns are sufficiently
                                      addressed.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">Kind regards,<o:p
                                        class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">Adam &amp; Karen<o:p
                                        class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">[1] This draft
                                      adoption does not preclude future
                                      alternative submissions<o:p
                                        class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">[2] Note that
                                      original authors will remain
                                      authors, but Charles and Gunnar
                                      will hold the pen.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                      class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
                                      margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                          0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                          font-family: 'Times New
                                          Roman', serif;" class="">On
                                          May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM,
                                          Karen O'Donoghue &lt;<a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org"
                                            style="color: purple;
                                            text-decoration: underline;"
                                            class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org">odonoghue@isoc.org</a></a>&gt;
                                          wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                        0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                        font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                        serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: 'Times New
                                            Roman', serif;" class="">Folks,<span
class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class="">As
                                              discussed during our last
                                              couple of meetings, this
                                              is the official call for
                                              adoption ofÂ <a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/"
                                                style="color: purple;
                                                text-decoration:
                                                underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/</a></a>Â as
                                              a SACM working group
                                              document.Â <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class="">Please
                                              reply with any comments or
                                              concerns along your
                                              support of this action to
                                              the mailing list.Â <o:p
                                                class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class="">Thanks,<o:p
                                                class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class="">Karen
                                              and Adam<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                          0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                          font-family: 'Times New
                                          Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br
                                            class="">
                                          sacm mailing list<br class="">
                                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org"
                                            style="color: purple;
                                            text-decoration: underline;"
                                            class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><br
                                            class="">
                                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm"
                                            style="color: purple;
                                            text-decoration: underline;"
                                            class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p
                                            class=""></o:p></div>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                  </div>
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=""><br
                                      class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                  <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">sacm mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                </blockquote>
                                <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class=""><br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">sacm mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                              </blockquote>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
                        class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                    font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                    font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                    orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                    text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:35:42 -0500
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To: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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My concern does not stem from using the prefix =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, as =
much as it is about the definition of the term assessment and how =
we=E2=80=99re using pre-assessment often, which turns into =E2=80=9Ccollec=
ting before the process of collecting=E2=80=9D, which is confusing at =
best.

The situation we are looking at feels very much like a cache miss.  We =
look for some information in one place and don=E2=80=99t find it, so we =
have to go fetch it from somewhere else.



> On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I share Adam's distaste for "pre-" anything.
>=20
> Perhaps "external collection" - defined as simply using any non-SACM
> protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this =
case,
> e.g., a NEA Server)?
>=20
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>=20
>=20
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic =
<http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic>
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc =
<http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc>
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com <mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville =
<adam.w.montville@gmail.com <mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>=20
>> I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, but are =
we forgetting
>> our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?  We borrow, and =
expand upon, the term from
>> RFC5209.  Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:
>>=20
>> Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of =
collecting posture for
>> a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such =
that
>> the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against =
compliance
>> policy.=E2=80=9D  Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to =
support other uses
>> of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, =
vulnerability
>> detection, license management).  The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of =
capabilities on the
>> endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the =
endpoint.
>>=20
>> But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about =
collection
>> in the context of *pre*-assessment.  So, a collection before =E2=80=9Ct=
he process
>> of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.
>>=20
>> Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?  Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=
=80=9D anything?
>> There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.  =
If
>> there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed =
during
>> the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s =
something we
>> need to grab all the time, or just this once.
>>=20
>> Thoughts?
>>=20
>> Adam
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>>=20
>> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I =
was
>> hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, =
however, I ran
>> out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the updated text =
as it
>> seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says =
the
>> same thing.
>>=20
>> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted =
on
>> 6/8/16 [1]).
>>=20
>> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes =
of=E2=80=A6Over
>> time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common =
types of
>> assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be
>> reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This =
avoids
>> the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this =
information
>> during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it =
might
>> be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment
>> collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop
>> pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and
>> processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to =
gather
>> this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>>=20
>> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday =
July 21
>> st.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Danny
>>=20
>> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> *From:* Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com
>> <athiasjerome@gmail.com <mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com>>]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
>> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
>> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue
>> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>>=20
>> This rewrite is imho better
>> Thanks
>>=20
>> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>>=20
>> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph =
help
>> clarify things?
>>=20
>> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment
>> scenarios, as
>> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability =
detection
>> data over
>> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional
>> detection
>> information that it was previously not collecting and push that
>> information to the
>> vulnerability management capability where it can support future
>> assessments. The
>> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,
>> change
>> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>>=20
>> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability
>> management capability and the endpoint management capability, as =
written, I
>> think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to =
decide.
>> I think the point is just that you could do something like this to =
improve
>> the vulnerability assessment.
>>=20
>> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be =
to
>> just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would =
preclude
>> an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their =
product.
>>=20
>> Thoughts?
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Danny
>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
>>> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
>>> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue
>> #5
>>> - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>>>=20
>>> While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is =
that
>> "the
>>> information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
>>> information":
>>> I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would =
have
>>> to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
>>> capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do =
with
>>> 'unknown' additional information)
>>>=20
>>> So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
>> something
>>> like "the updated information"
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>>>> During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed =
various open
>>>> issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as =
a
>>>> result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
>>>> here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found =
here [4].
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because =
we ran out
>>>> of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has =
the
>>>> ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the =
vulnerability
>>>> assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
>>>> following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>> (specifically the
>>> last sentence).
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to =
determine an
>>>> endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
>>>>=20
>>>> collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
>>>> Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
>>>>=20
>>>> endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository =
and
>>>> a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
>>>>=20
>>>> an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer =
to
>>>> enable operators to perform targeted collection under
>>>>=20
>>>> certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
>>>> provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
>>>>=20
>>>> may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection =
of
>>>> endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
>>>>=20
>>>> assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the =
vulnerability
>>>> assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
>>>>=20
>>>> scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
>>>> information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
>>>>=20
>>>> management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
>>>> capability by the endpoint whenever that information
>>>>=20
>>>> changes.=E2=80=9D
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
>>>> endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
>>>> capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily =
know
>>>> what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it
>>>> (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
>>>> situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what =
additional
>>>> information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting =
it?
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by =
May
>>> 31st.
>>>> We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June
>> 8th.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>=20
>>>> Danny
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> [1] =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
>>>>=20
>>>> [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
>>>>=20
>>>> [3] =
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
>>>>=20
>>>> [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/
>>>> (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect =
they
>>>> should be
>>>> soon)
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sacm mailing list
>>>> sacm@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sacm mailing list
>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">My concern does not stem from using the =
prefix =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, as much as it is about the definition of =
the term assessment and how we=E2=80=99re using pre-assessment often, =
which turns into =E2=80=9Ccollecting before the process of =
collecting=E2=80=9D, which is confusing at best.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The situation we are looking at feels =
very much like a cache miss. &nbsp;We look for some information in one =
place and don=E2=80=99t find it, so we have to go fetch it from =
somewhere else.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, =
Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Hi,</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">I share Adam's distaste for "pre-" =
anything.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Perhaps "external =
collection" - defined as simply using any non-SACM</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">protocol to forward =
endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this case,</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">e.g., a NEA =
Server)?</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Cheers,</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">- Ira</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software =
Architect)</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions =
WG</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing =
WG</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working =
Group</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing =
Protocol WG</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer =
MIB</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Blue Roof Music / High North Inc</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">mailto:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Winter &nbsp;579 Park Place &nbsp;Saline, =
MI &nbsp;48176 &nbsp;734-944-0094</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Summer &nbsp;PO Box 221 &nbsp;Grand =
Marais, MI 49839 &nbsp;906-494-2434</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">On Fri, Jun 17, =
2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D"">adam.w.montville@gmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">wrote:</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D"">I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this =
up, but are we forgetting<br class=3D"">our definition of =
=E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D? &nbsp;We borrow, and expand upon, the term =
from<br class=3D"">RFC5209. &nbsp;Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology =
draft says:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Assessment: Defined in =
[RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting posture for<br =
class=3D"">a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based =
firewall) such that<br class=3D"">the appropriate validators may =
evaluate the posture against compliance<br class=3D"">policy.=E2=80=9D =
&nbsp;Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to support other =
uses<br class=3D"">of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network =
enforcement, vulnerability<br class=3D"">detection, license management). =
&nbsp;The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabilities on the<br =
class=3D"">endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed =
on the endpoint.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">But, in the text proposed, =
and in general, we are talking about collection<br class=3D"">in the =
context of *pre*-assessment. &nbsp;So, a collection before =E2=80=9Cthe =
process<br class=3D"">of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which =
seems off to me.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Do we really mean to say, =
pre-evaluation? &nbsp;Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D anything?<br =
class=3D"">There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is =
not. &nbsp;If<br class=3D"">there is not, we go grab it, or indicate =
that it needs to be grabbed during<br class=3D"">the next collection =
opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s something we<br =
class=3D"">need to grab all the time, or just this once.<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Thoughts?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Adam<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, =
Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" =
class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from =
Charles. &nbsp;I was<br class=3D"">hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=
=99s virtual interim meeting, however, I ran<br class=3D"">out of time. =
&nbsp;As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it<br =
class=3D"">seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, =
but, says the<br class=3D"">same thing.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The =
new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted on<br =
class=3D"">6/8/16 [1]).<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">"Supplemental =
collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=E2=80=A6Over<br =
class=3D"">time, some new pieces of information that are needed during =
common types of<br class=3D"">assessments might be identified. =
Pre-assessment collection can be<br class=3D"">reconfigured to have this =
information delivered automatically. This avoids<br class=3D"">the need =
for regular supplemental collections to gather this information<br =
class=3D"">during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. =
Likewise, it might<br class=3D"">be observed that certain information =
delivered during pre-assessment<br class=3D"">collection is rarely used. =
In this case, it might be useful to stop<br class=3D"">pre-assessment =
collection of this information to reduce network and<br =
class=3D"">processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be =
used to gather<br class=3D"">this data on the rare occasions when it is =
needed."<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Please let me know your thoughts =
on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21<br class=3D"">st.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Danny<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">[1] <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt</a=
><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">*From:* =
Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a><br class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>&gt;]<br class=3D"">*Sent:* =
Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM<br class=3D"">*To:* Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D"">*Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">*Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR =
REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue<br class=3D"">#5 - =
Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">This rewrite is imho better<br class=3D"">Thanks<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Based on the feedback, would the =
following rewrite of the paragraph help<br class=3D"">clarify things?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">"In many cases, the endpoint =
information...Under certain deployment<br class=3D"">scenarios, as<br =
class=3D"">the vulnerability management capability processes =
vulnerability detection<br class=3D"">data over<br class=3D"">time, the =
endpoint management capability may learn about additional<br =
class=3D"">detection<br class=3D"">information that it was previously =
not collecting and push that<br class=3D"">information to the<br =
class=3D"">vulnerability management capability where it can support =
future<br class=3D"">assessments. The<br class=3D"">pushing of this data =
may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,<br class=3D"">change<br =
class=3D"">in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, =
etc.)."<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">While this potentially creates a =
coupling between the vulnerability<br class=3D"">management capability =
and the endpoint management capability, as written, I<br class=3D"">think =
it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.<br =
class=3D"">I think the point is just that you could do something like =
this to improve<br class=3D"">the vulnerability assessment.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">If we still don't have consensus on this, =
another approach might be to<br class=3D"">just remove this text all =
together as I don't think doing so would preclude<br class=3D"">an =
implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thoughts?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Danny<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">-----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">From: Jerome Athias [<a =
href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]<br class=3D"">Sent: =
Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br class=3D"">To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D"">Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR =
REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue<br =
class=3D""></blockquote>#5<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">- Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, =
if your concern is that<br class=3D""></blockquote>"the<br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">information beyond that" =
would be "supplemental endpoint<br class=3D"">information":<br =
class=3D"">I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management =
capability would have<br class=3D"">to push -supplemental- information =
to the vulnerability assessment<br class=3D"">capability (what would the =
vulnerability assessment capability do with<br class=3D"">'unknown' =
additional information)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">So I think the =
issue is to change "the information beyond that" to<br =
class=3D""></blockquote>something<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">like "the updated information"<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;:<br=
 class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">During yesterday=E2=80=99=
s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various open<br class=3D"">issues =
with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a<br =
class=3D"">result of feedback that we received on the draft which you =
can see<br class=3D"">here [2][3]. &nbsp;The slide=E2=80=99s from the =
meeting can be found here [4].<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance =
to discuss because we ran out<br class=3D"">of time was whether or not =
an endpoint management capability has the<br class=3D"">ability to push =
supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability<br =
class=3D"">assessment capability. &nbsp;This question came out of a =
review of the<br class=3D"">following text from the Vulnerability =
Assessment Scenario<br class=3D""></blockquote></blockquote>(specifically =
the<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">last =
sentence).<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">=E2=80=9CIn many cases, the =
endpoint information needed to determine an<br class=3D"">endpoint=E2=80=99=
s vulnerability status will have been previously<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available =
in a<br class=3D"">Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">endpoint information will not be readily =
available in a Repository and<br class=3D"">a targeted collection will =
be necessary. &nbsp;Of course,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">an =
implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to<br =
class=3D"">enable operators to perform targeted collection under<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">certain circumstances, even when sufficient =
information can be<br class=3D"">provided by the endpoint management =
capability (e.g. there<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">may be freshness =
requirements for information). Targeted collection of<br =
class=3D"">endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">assessment does not necessarily need to be a =
pull by the vulnerability<br class=3D"">assessment capability. =
&nbsp;Under certain deployment<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">scenarios, =
once the necessary detection information is known, the<br =
class=3D"">information beyond that which is available in the endpoint<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">management capability can be pushed to the =
vulnerability assessment<br class=3D"">capability by the endpoint =
whenever that information<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">changes.=E2=80=9D<b=
r class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Our main =
question is whether or not pushing information from the<br =
class=3D"">endpoint management capability to the vulnerability =
assessment<br class=3D"">capability is actually possible because it =
would not necessarily know<br class=3D"">what information it needs to =
push prior to the server requesting it<br class=3D"">(in which case it =
is probably considered a pull)? &nbsp;Is there a<br class=3D"">situation =
where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional<br =
class=3D"">information is needed for an assessment without a server =
requesting it?<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide =
feedback by May<br class=3D""></blockquote>31st.<br class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D"">We are planning to have an updated version of =
the scenario for June<br class=3D""></blockquote></blockquote>8th.<br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Danny<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">[1] <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/"=
 =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenari=
o/</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">[2] <a =
href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">[3] <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.htm=
l</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">[4] <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/<=
/a><br class=3D"">(looks like the slides are not available just yet, =
but, I suspect they<br class=3D"">should be<br class=3D"">soon)<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sacm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></blockquote></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sacm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sacm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></blockquote></di=
v></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
Thread-Index: AdHIkuRuh5CvhlIOStepa2ZMRUUCngAUH7kAAIZNikA=
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 14:04:19 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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Thanks Adam.  Do others have thoughts on these changes?

Thanks,

Danny

From: Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 5:59 PM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
Cc: sacm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Ap=
pendix E to Reference CSC v6.0

This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank you.

On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org<mailto:dhaynes@=
mitre.org>> wrote:

We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix E to reference Critical=
 Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].  I went through both versio=
ns of the document and made the appropriate updates to the text (see attach=
ed) as some controls have changed or have been removed.

Please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem reasonable =
to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnerability Assessment Scena=
rio I-D.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23
[2] https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm

<csc-updates.docx>_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks Adam.&nbsp; Do others have tho=
ughts on these changes?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.=
montville@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 17, 2016 5:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;dhaynes@mitre.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sacm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Up=
date Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank yo=
u.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix=
 E to reference Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].&nbs=
p; I went through both versions of the document and
 made the appropriate updates to the text (see attached) as some controls h=
ave changed or have been removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Please review the attached changes and let me know =
if they seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulner=
ability Assessment Scenario I-D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">[1]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23"><=
span style=3D"color:#954F72">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenar=
io/issues/23</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">[2]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an><a href=3D"https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm"><span style=
=3D"color:#954F72">https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm</span><=
/a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;csc-updates.docx&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">__________________________=
_____________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#954F72">sacm@ietf.org</span=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-=
serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm"><span style=
=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#954=
F72">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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Hi Danny,

+1

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434


On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> Thanks Adam.  Do others have thoughts on these changes?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2016 5:59 PM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 -
> Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
>
>
>
> This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank you.
>
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix E to reference
> Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].  I went through
> both versions of the document and made the appropriate updates to the text
> (see attached) as some controls have changed or have been removed.
>
>
>
> Please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem reasonable
> to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnerability Assessment
> Scenario I-D.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23
>
> [2] https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm
>
>
>
> <csc-updates.docx>_______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Hi Danny,<br><br>+1<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></di=
v>- Ira<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted =
Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secre=
tary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet=
 Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>=
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=
=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://si=
tes.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:bluero=
ofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=
=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Su=
mmer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><b=
r><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><=
div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></=
div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Haynes, Da=
n <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks Adam.=C2=A0 Do others have tho=
ughts on these changes?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Adam Montville [mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">adam.w.montville@g=
mail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 17, 2016 5:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_=
blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Up=
date Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank yo=
u.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; w=
rote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix=
 E to reference Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].=C2=
=A0 I went through both versions of the document and
 made the appropriate updates to the text (see attached) as some controls h=
ave changed or have been removed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Please review the attached changes and let me know =
if they seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulner=
ability Assessment Scenario I-D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Danny<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">[1]<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://github.com=
/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"=
color:#954f72">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23</=
span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">[2]<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://www.cisecu=
rity.org/critical-controls.cfm" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#954=
f72">https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm</span></a><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;csc-updates.docx&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">__________________________=
_____________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#954f72">s=
acm@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:#954f72">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</span></a><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113ac8c46f00200535b644cb--


From nobody Mon Jun 20 08:03:21 2016
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 17:03:02 +0200
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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The changes look fine to me.

The CSC 4 System Entity Relationship diagram seems to imply the use of a 
vulnerability scanner, I think. Could an "SCAP Unauthenticated 
Vulnerability Scanner" be used as an example for a Posture Collector 
that does not reside on the target endpoint itself?

Grüße,

Henk


On 06/20/2016 04:04 PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:
> Thanks Adam.  Do others have thoughts on these changes?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> *From:*Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2016 5:59 PM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 -
> Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
>
> This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank you.
>
>     On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
>     <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
>
>     We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix E to reference
>     Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].  I went
>     through both versions of the document and made the appropriate
>     updates to the text (see attached) as some controls have changed or
>     have been removed.
>
>     Please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem
>     reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the
>     Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Danny
>
>     [1]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23
>
>     [2]https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm
>
>     <csc-updates.docx>_______________________________________________
>     sacm mailing list
>     sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>


From nobody Mon Jun 20 10:02:47 2016
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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Thanks Ira and Henk. =20

Henk, I think so.  With that said, I think the scanner in the diagram could=
 be either on/off the endpoint and it could perform authenticated/unauthent=
icated scans.=20
=20
Thanks,

Danny

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henk Birkholz
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:03 AM
> To: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update
> Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
>=20
> The changes look fine to me.
>=20
> The CSC 4 System Entity Relationship diagram seems to imply the use of a
> vulnerability scanner, I think. Could an "SCAP Unauthenticated Vulnerabil=
ity
> Scanner" be used as an example for a Posture Collector that does not resi=
de
> on the target endpoint itself?
>=20
> Gr=FC=DFe,
>=20
> Henk
>=20
>=20
> On 06/20/2016 04:04 PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:
> > Thanks Adam.  Do others have thoughts on these changes?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > *From:*Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2016 5:59 PM
> > *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> > *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 -
> > Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
> >
> > This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank you.
> >
> >     On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> >     <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix E to reference
> >     Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].  I went
> >     through both versions of the document and made the appropriate
> >     updates to the text (see attached) as some controls have changed or
> >     have been removed.
> >
> >     Please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem
> >     reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the
> >     Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >
> >     Danny
> >
> >     [1]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23
> >
> >     [2]https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm
> >
> >     <csc-
> updates.docx>_______________________________________________
> >     sacm mailing list
> >     sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sacm mailing list
> > sacm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "Dan (Dan) Romascanu" <dromasca@avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Subject: [sacm] [sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario] Correct urls to be version neutral (#26)
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If we point to version neutral URLs then they do not need to be updated every time a new version of the document is published.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26

-- Commit Summary --

  * Merge remote-tracking branch 'refs/remotes/sacmwg/master'
  * Point to version neutral versions

-- File Changes --

    M README.md (4)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26.patch
https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26.diff

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Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
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<p>If we point to version neutral URLs then they do not need to be updated every time a new version of the document is published.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26'>https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Merge remote-tracking branch &#39;refs/remotes/sacmwg/master&#39;</li>
  <li>Point to version neutral versions</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26/files#diff-0">README.md</a>
    (4)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26.patch'>https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26.diff'>https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/26.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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From nobody Mon Jun 20 15:34:27 2016
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Subject: [sacm] useful reference listing to SACM related work
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This listing is updated every six months.  It
is a handy compendium, inter alia, for formal
citations to many SACM related specifications.

Note the citations to the ITU-T version of OVAL
- X.1526.  It is freely available with official
translations into five other languages.
http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-X.1526-201401-I

The citation to the Critical Security Controls,
ETSI TR 103 305 is to the V5.1 version.  The V6.0
version as well as the various compendiums and
mapping to frameworks and implementations were
adopted last Friday by the TC CYBER Plenary, and
will be published shortly.   X.1500 Amd 10 in Sept
will reflect the new version.  It will also likely
contain updates for the OASIS STIX, TAXII, and
CybOX specifications, and the new 3GPP Security
Assurance Specification for 3GPP Network Products
(TS 33.116 ,  TS 33.117, and TS 33.926).

--tony






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    This listing is updated every six months.  It<br>
    is a handy compendium, inter alia, for formal<br>
    citations to many SACM related specifications.<br>
    <br>
    Note the citations to the ITU-T version of OVAL<br>
    - X.1526.  It is freely available with official<br>
    translations into five other languages.<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-X.1526-201401-I">http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-X.1526-201401-I</a><br>
    <br>
    The citation to the Critical Security Controls,<br>
    ETSI TR 103 305 is to the V5.1 version.  The V6.0<br>
    version as well as the various compendiums and<br>
    mapping to frameworks and implementations were<br>
    adopted last Friday by the TC CYBER Plenary, and<br>
    will be published shortly.   X.1500 Amd 10 in Sept<br>
    will reflect the new version.  It will also likely <br>
    contain updates for the OASIS STIX, TAXII, and<br>
    CybOX specifications, and the new 3GPP Security <br>
    Assurance Specification for 3GPP Network Products<br>
    (TS 33.116 ,  TS 33.117, and TS 33.926).<br>
    <br>
    --tony
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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
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To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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> On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:02 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>=20
> Henk, I think so.  With that said, I think the scanner in the diagram =
could be either on/off the endpoint and it could perform =
authenticated/unauthenticated scans.

I believe you are correct, Danny.

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charset=3Diso-8859-1"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:02 PM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Henk, I think so. &nbsp;With that said, I think =
the scanner in the diagram could be either on/off the endpoint and it =
could perform authenticated/unauthenticated scans.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></div></blockquote></d=
iv><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">I believe you are correct, =
Danny.</div></body></html>=

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From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <94680da4-b547-6ee8-2510-ea10eb1e02ff@ThreatGuard.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 18:49:12 -0500
Message-Id: <1A88355D-CF3B-40B5-A219-094137ABB2B6@gmail.com>
References: <17198AFF-DF5A-46BC-B84A-2AAF1717BD90@isoc.org> <EC234EFE-95AB-444B-8A5D-782ADBD60559@gmail.com> <1c99b26c-bdac-5798-1bd9-e957b11ae4bd@yaanatech.com> <db612b00-c11a-88c1-45da-35e0693305e9@ThreatGuard.com> <6062111F-9C39-4C7C-B008-F7E23FED40DE@gmail.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA7520D40F@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <E79698DE-B183-4AE1-8F6C-08744E8BFFDF@gmail.com> <94680da4-b547-6ee8-2510-ea10eb1e02ff@ThreatGuard.com>
To: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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Cc: "Dan \(Dan\) Romascanu" <dromasca@avaya.com>, "<sacm@ietf.org>" <sacm@ietf.org>, "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Hi Gun,

I=E2=80=99m going to go out on a limb and say I=E2=80=99m not tracking.  =
Are you referring to Mike=E2=80=99s inquiry about data formats?  If so, =
I=E2=80=99m not sure that thread is talking about data models as much as =
it is talking about specific formats (i.e. JSON, XML, CBOR, etc.).

I agree with you that software identify information is =E2=80=9Cjust a =
set of endpoint attributes=E2=80=9D, but I=E2=80=99m not sure that =
we=E2=80=99re treating it any differently.  Can you explain?

Adam


> On Jun 18, 2016, at 12:06 PM, Gunnar Engelbach =
<gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> While we're on the topic,
>=20
> There is an effort in progress to determine a data model for SACM =
endpoint collection.  Software identity information is just a set of =
endpoint attributes.  So is there a reason why software identity is =
treated differently?
>=20
>=20
> --gun
>=20
>=20
> On 6/18/2016 5:38 AM, Adam Montville wrote:
>> Hi.  Because we would like to move our requirements through IESG, I =
would like to drive this to ground.   There are three things that =
we=E2=80=99re talking about doing when it comes to selecting a data =
model for software identification:
>>=20
>> 1) Extensibility
>> 2) Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)
>> 3) Completeness
>>=20
>> There is a data model requirement for (1) - DM-014 Attribute =
Extensibility.  There does not seem to be a requirement for =
accessibility (2) or completeness (3).
>>=20
>> My question is this: Do we need such requirements?
>>=20
>> I would assert that we do not.  Accessibility is something that we =
will always judge by virtue of the fact that we operate within the =
culture of the IETF.  Completeness is not something we need to put into =
the requirements draft by virtue of DM-002 Data Model Structure, which =
indicates that a data model can be structured monolithically or composed =
of modules/sub-modules=E2=80=94this seems to imply that we could be ok =
with =E2=80=9Ccompleteness=E2=80=9D potentially coming from more than =
one place.
>>=20
>> Thoughts?
>>=20
>> Adam
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) =
<dromasca@avaya.com <mailto:dromasca@avaya.com>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Re: Requirements =E2=80=93 is this not what  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/>https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/> is =
about? Maybe it needs an update.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Dan
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Adam Montville
>>> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 2:25 PM
>>> To: Gunnar Engelbach
>>> Cc: < <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>>;  =
<mailto:tony@yaanatech.com>tony@yaanatech.com =
<mailto:tony@yaanatech.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of =
draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
>>>=20
>>> This seems like a fine approach.
>>>=20
>>> As part of that third item, I=E2=80=99d like to get requirements =
from our own drafts as well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability =
scenario, but also considering our requirements and other drafts.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach < =
<mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com =
<mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to have a =
better awareness of the other efforts going on out there than I do, so I =
could use your help in identifying other good candidates and what will =
be necessary to support as many of them as possible.
>>>=20
>>> What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach -- gather =
some requirements and then see from among the existing efforts which is =
the best from among those that are good enough.  If any.
>>>=20
>>> But first is a matter of setting the requirements.  Stated =
generally, I really only have three:
>>>=20
>>>   1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner, if =
necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs without relying on =
the good graces of the current owner
>>>=20
>>>   2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for any =
users)
>>>=20
>>>   3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to represent =
the other tag types without loss of data or shoe-horning data into =
fields that weren't really meant for that type of data)
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel free =
to chime in.  However, I think the simpler and more informal we can keep =
this list the quicker we can grind through it.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --gun
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
>>> Hi Adam,
>>>=20
>>> A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
>>> in some proactive outreach.  Simply stating that "no other
>>> solutions to the problem of software identification have
>>> been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
>>> out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
>>> SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
>>> arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
>>> in other venues where there is far greater industry participation.
>>> Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
>>> accomplishes.
>>>=20
>>> --tony
>>>=20
>>> On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
>>> All:
>>>=20
>>> After several on-list discussions, the last virtual interim, and the =
discussions surrounding this call for adoption, the chairs acknowledge =
that there are some key concerns with this draft, but also see that =
there is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note that no =
other solutions to the problem of software identification have been =
submitted to the working group [1].
>>>=20
>>> Because the topic of software identification, and SWID in =
particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are designating Charles =
Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the working group draft [2].  =
We believe that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary balance to =
this draft, so that the key concerns are sufficiently addressed.
>>>=20
>>> Kind regards,
>>>=20
>>> Adam & Karen
>>>=20
>>> [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future alternative =
submissions
>>> [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but Charles and =
Gunnar will hold the pen.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue < =
<mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>odonoghue@isoc.org =
<mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Folks,
>>>=20
>>> As discussed during our last couple of meetings, this is the =
official call for adoption of  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/>https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/> as =
a SACM working group document.
>>>=20
>>> Please reply with any comments or concerns along your support of =
this action to the mailing list.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> Karen and Adam
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sacm mailing list
>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sacm mailing list
>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sacm mailing list
>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sacm mailing list
>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi Gun,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m going to go out on a limb =
and say I=E2=80=99m not tracking. &nbsp;Are you referring to Mike=E2=80=99=
s inquiry about data formats? &nbsp;If so, I=E2=80=99m not sure that =
thread is talking about data models as much as it is talking about =
specific formats (i.e. JSON, XML, CBOR, etc.). &nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I agree with you that =
software identify information is =E2=80=9Cjust a set of endpoint =
attributes=E2=80=9D, but I=E2=80=99m not sure that we=E2=80=99re =
treating it any differently. &nbsp;Can you explain?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Adam&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 18, 2016, at 12:06 PM, =
Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com" =
class=3D"">gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
 =20
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" class=3D"">
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    While we're on the topic,<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    There is an effort in progress to determine a data model for SACM
    endpoint collection.&nbsp; Software identity information is just a =
set of
    endpoint attributes.&nbsp; So is there a reason why software =
identity is
    treated differently?<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    --gun<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2016 5:38 AM, Adam Montville
      wrote:<br class=3D"">
    </div>
    <blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:E79698DE-B183-4AE1-8F6C-08744E8BFFDF@gmail.com" type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8" class=3D"">
      Hi. &nbsp;Because we would like to move our requirements through =
IESG,
      I would like to drive this to ground. &nbsp; There are three =
things
      that we=E2=80=99re talking about doing when it comes to selecting =
a data
      model for software identification:
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">1) Extensibility</div>
      <div class=3D"">2) Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)</div>
      <div class=3D"">3) Completeness</div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">There is a data model requirement for (1) - DM-014
        Attribute Extensibility. &nbsp;There does not seem to be a
        requirement for accessibility (2) or completeness (3). =
&nbsp;</div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">My question is this: Do we need such =
requirements?</div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">I would assert that we do not. &nbsp;Accessibility =
is
        something that we will always judge by virtue of the fact that
        we operate within the culture of the IETF. &nbsp;Completeness is =
not
        something we need to put into the requirements draft by virtue
        of DM-002 Data Model Structure, which indicates that a data
        model can be structured monolithically or composed of
        modules/sub-modules=E2=80=94this seems to imply that we could be =
ok with
        =E2=80=9Ccompleteness=E2=80=9D potentially coming from more than =
one place. &nbsp;</div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">Thoughts?</div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">Adam</div>
      <div class=3D"">
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
          <div class=3D"">
            <div class=3D"">
              <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
                <div class=3D"">On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Romascanu,
                  Dan (Dan) &lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:dromasca@avaya.com" class=3D"">dromasca@avaya.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:</div>
                <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
                <div class=3D"">
                  <div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1;
                    font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                    normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                    normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
                    text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
                    none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                    word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=3D"">Re: Requirements =E2=80=93 =
is this
                        not what<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration:
                          underline;" class=3D""></a><a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/">ht=
tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>is
                        about? Maybe it needs an update.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=3D"">Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=3D"">Dan<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;
                        font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                        73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div style=3D"border-style: none none none solid;
                      border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt;
                      padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=3D"">
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <div style=3D"border-style: solid none none;
                          border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
                          border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" =
class=3D"">
                          <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                            Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                Tahoma, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>sacm
                              [<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration:
                                underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Adam
                              Montville<br class=3D"">
                              <b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday,
                              June 10, 2016 2:25 PM<br class=3D"">
                              <b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gunnar
                              Engelbach<br class=3D"">
                              <b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration:
                                underline;" class=3D""></a><a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:tony@yaanatech.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration:
                                underline;" class=3D""></a><a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:tony@yaanatech.com">tony@yaanatech.com</a><br class=3D"">
                              <b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re:
                              [sacm] Call for adoption of
                              draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM
                              WG document<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">This seems like a fine approach.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">As part of that third item, I=E2=80=99d like
                          to get requirements from our own drafts as
                          well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability
                          scenario, but also considering our
                          requirements and other drafts. &nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt;
                          margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"">
                          <div class=3D"">
                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On Jun 9, 2016,
                              at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach &lt;<a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration:
                                underline;" class=3D""></a><a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com">gunnar.engelbach@threatgu=
ard.com</a>&gt;
                              wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                          </div>
                          <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                            Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                          <div class=3D"">
                            <div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm
                                0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=3D"">=

                                <br class=3D"">
                                Hey Tony, funny thing that you should
                                say that.&nbsp; You seem to have a =
better
                                awareness of the other efforts going on
                                out there than I do, so I could use your
                                help in identifying other good
                                candidates and what will be necessary to
                                support as many of them as possible.<br =
class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                What I'd really like to do is take a
                                more formal approach -- gather some
                                requirements and then see from among the
                                existing efforts which is the best from
                                among those that are good enough.&nbsp; =
If
                                any.<br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                But first is a matter of setting the
                                requirements.&nbsp; Stated generally, I
                                really only have three:<br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                &nbsp; 1)&nbsp; Is extensible -- as a =
fork outside
                                of the current owner, if necessary, to
                                be sure it continues to meet SACM needs
                                without relying on the good graces of
                                the current owner<br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                &nbsp; 2)&nbsp; Readily accessible (eg., =
spec is
                                not cost prohibitive for any users)<br =
class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                &nbsp; 3)&nbsp; The most complete (that =
is,
                                closest to being able to represent the
                                other tag types without loss of data or
                                shoe-horning data into fields that
                                weren't really meant for that type of
                                data)<br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other
                                requirements, so feel free to chime =
in.&nbsp;
                                However, I think the simpler and more
                                informal we can keep this list the
                                quicker we can grind through it.<br =
class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                --gun<br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                <br class=3D"">
                                <o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
                              <div class=3D"">
                                <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On
                                  6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski
                                  wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt;
                                margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm
                                  0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                  font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                  serif;">Hi Adam,<br class=3D"">
                                  <br class=3D"">
                                  A good solution.&nbsp; Charles and =
Gunnar
                                  should also engage<br class=3D"">
                                  in some proactive outreach.&nbsp; =
Simply
                                  stating that "no other<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                                  solutions to the problem of software
                                  identification have<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                                  been submitted" is preposterous when
                                  there are so many<br class=3D"">
                                  out there.&nbsp; IMHO, one of the
                                  long-standing problems with<br =
class=3D"">
                                  SACM is its institutional and
                                  participatory insularity in an<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                                  arena where so many almost identical
                                  activities are occurring<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                                  in other venues where there is far
                                  greater industry participation.<br =
class=3D"">
                                  Ignoring them diminishes the value of
                                  whatever SACM<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                                  accomplishes.<br class=3D"">
                                  <br class=3D"">
                                  --tony<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p>
                                <div class=3D"">
                                  <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On
                                    2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville
                                    wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt;
                                  margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"">
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D"">All:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D"">After several
                                      on-list discussions, the last
                                      virtual interim, and the
                                      discussions surrounding this call
                                      for adoption, the chairs
                                      acknowledge that there are some
                                      key concerns with this draft, but
                                      also see that there is rough
                                      consensus for adoption. &nbsp;We
                                      additionally note that no other
                                      solutions to the problem of
                                      software identification have been
                                      submitted to the working group
                                      [1].<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D"">Because the =
topic
                                      of software identification, and
                                      SWID in particular, appears to be
                                      a contentious one, we are
                                      designating Charles Schmidt and
                                      Gunnar Engelbach as editors of the
                                      working group draft [2]. &nbsp;We
                                      believe that Charles and Gunnar
                                      will bring the necessary balance
                                      to this draft, so that the key
                                      concerns are sufficiently
                                      addressed.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D"">Kind =
regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D"">Adam &amp; =
Karen<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D"">[1] This draft
                                      adoption does not preclude future
                                      alternative submissions<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D"">[2] Note that
                                      original authors will remain
                                      authors, but Charles and Gunnar
                                      will hold the pen.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                  <div class=3D"">
                                    <blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt;
                                      margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"">
                                      <div class=3D"">
                                        <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                          0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                          font-family: 'Times New
                                          Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On
                                          May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM,
                                          Karen O'Donoghue &lt;<a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org" =
style=3D"color: purple;
                                            text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org">odonoghue@isoc.org</a>&gt;
                                          wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                        0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                        font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                        serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                      <div class=3D"">
                                        <div class=3D"">
                                          <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: 'Times New
                                            Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Folks,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                          <div class=3D"">
                                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class=3D"">
                                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">As
                                              discussed during our last
                                              couple of meetings, this
                                              is the official call for
                                              adoption of&nbsp;<a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
" style=3D"color: purple;
                                                text-decoration:
                                                underline;" =
class=3D""></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/=
">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/</a>&n=
bsp;as
                                              a SACM working group
                                              document.&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class=3D"">
                                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class=3D"">
                                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Please
                                              reply with any comments or
                                              concerns along your
                                              support of this action to
                                              the mailing =
list.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class=3D"">
                                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class=3D"">
                                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class=3D"">
                                            <div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Karen
                                              and Adam<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm
                                          0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                          font-family: 'Times New
                                          Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
                                          sacm mailing list<br class=3D"">=

                                          <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple;
                                            text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
                                          <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style=3D"color: =
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class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                  </div>
                                  <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">
                                    <br class=3D"">
                                    <br class=3D"">
                                    <br class=3D"">
                                    <o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                  <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">sacm =
mailing list<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
                                </blockquote>
                                <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">
                                  <br class=3D"">
                                  <br class=3D"">
                                  <br class=3D"">
                                  <o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
                                <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
                                <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">sacm mailing =
list<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre>
                                <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre>
                                <pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D""><a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style=3D"color: =
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                              <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
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                    text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
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                    0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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Subject: Re: [sacm] useful reference listing to SACM related work
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Thanks, Tony.

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:34 PM, Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> This listing is updated every six months.  It
> is a handy compendium, inter alia, for formal
> citations to many SACM related specifications.
>=20
> Note the citations to the ITU-T version of OVAL
> - X.1526.  It is freely available with official
> translations into five other languages.
> http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-X.1526-201401-I =
<http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-X.1526-201401-I>
>=20
> The citation to the Critical Security Controls,
> ETSI TR 103 305 is to the V5.1 version.  The V6.0
> version as well as the various compendiums and
> mapping to frameworks and implementations were
> adopted last Friday by the TC CYBER Plenary, and
> will be published shortly.   X.1500 Amd 10 in Sept
> will reflect the new version.  It will also likely
> contain updates for the OASIS STIX, TAXII, and
> CybOX specifications, and the new 3GPP Security
> Assurance Specification for 3GPP Network Products
> (TS 33.116 ,  TS 33.117, and TS 33.926).
>=20
> --tony
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
<T-REC-X.1500-201603-I!Amd9!PDF-E.pdf>____________________________________=
___________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Thanks, Tony.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:34 PM, =
Tony Rutkowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony@yaanatech.com" =
class=3D"">tony@yaanatech.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">This listing is =
updated every six months.&nbsp; It</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">is a handy =
compendium, inter alia, for formal</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">citations to many =
SACM related specifications.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Note the citations to the ITU-T version of OVAL</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">-=
 X.1526.&nbsp; It is freely available with official</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">translations into five other languages.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-X.1526-201401-I" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, =
255);">http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-X.1526-201401-I</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">The citation to the Critical Security =
Controls,</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">ETSI TR 103 305 is to the V5.1 version.&nbsp; =
The V6.0</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">version as well as the various compendiums =
and</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">mapping to frameworks and implementations =
were</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">adopted last Friday by the TC CYBER Plenary, =
and</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">will be published shortly.&nbsp;&nbsp; X.1500 =
Amd 10 in Sept</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">will reflect the =
new version.&nbsp; It will also likely<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">contain updates for the OASIS STIX, TAXII, and</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">CybOX specifications, and the new 3GPP Security<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Assurance Specification for 3GPP Network Products</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">(TS 33.116 ,&nbsp; TS 33.117, and TS 33.926).</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">--tony<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><span =
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From: Gunnar Engelbach <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
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Nah.

The conversation recently about software tags has been about translating 
the various software tags into a common data model where that data model 
is, preferably, one of the existing software tags.

But that would mean having a data model for endpoint attributes and a 
separate data model for software tags.  As long as the tag information 
is going to be translated I don't see why it should use a data model 
that is different than that used for other endpoint attributes.


--gun



On 6/20/2016 4:49 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
> Hi Gun,
>
> Iâ€™m going to go out on a limb and say Iâ€™m not tracking.  Are you 
> referring to Mikeâ€™s inquiry about data formats?  If so, Iâ€™m not sure 
> that thread is talking about data models as much as it is talking 
> about specific formats (i.e. JSON, XML, CBOR, etc.).
>
> I agree with you that software identify information is â€œjust a set of 
> endpoint attributesâ€�, but Iâ€™m not sure that weâ€™re treating it any 
> differently.  Can you explain?
>
> Adam
>
>
>> On Jun 18, 2016, at 12:06 PM, Gunnar Engelbach 
>> <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com 
>> <mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> While we're on the topic,
>>
>> There is an effort in progress to determine a data model for SACM 
>> endpoint collection.  Software identity information is just a set of 
>> endpoint attributes.  So is there a reason why software identity is 
>> treated differently?
>>
>>
>> --gun
>>
>>
>> On 6/18/2016 5:38 AM, Adam Montville wrote:
>>> Hi.  Because we would like to move our requirements through IESG, I 
>>> would like to drive this to ground. There are three things that 
>>> weâ€™re talking about doing when it comes to selecting a data model 
>>> for software identification:
>>>
>>> 1) Extensibility
>>> 2) Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)
>>> 3) Completeness
>>>
>>> There is a data model requirement for (1) - DM-014 Attribute 
>>> Extensibility.  There does not seem to be a requirement for 
>>> accessibility (2) or completeness (3).
>>>
>>> My question is this: Do we need such requirements?
>>>
>>> I would assert that we do not.  Accessibility is something that we 
>>> will always judge by virtue of the fact that we operate within the 
>>> culture of the IETF.  Completeness is not something we need to put 
>>> into the requirements draft by virtue of DM-002 Data Model 
>>> Structure, which indicates that a data model can be structured 
>>> monolithically or composed of modules/sub-modulesâ€”this seems to 
>>> imply that we could be ok with â€œcompletenessâ€� potentially coming 
>>> from more than one place.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) 
>>>> <dromasca@avaya.com <mailto:dromasca@avaya.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Re: Requirements â€“ is this not 
>>>> whathttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/is 
>>>> about? Maybe it needs an update.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dan
>>>> *From:*sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org]*On Behalf Of*Adam Montville
>>>> *Sent:*Friday, June 10, 2016 2:25 PM
>>>> *To:*Gunnar Engelbach
>>>> *Cc:*<sacm@ietf.org>;tony@yaanatech.com
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [sacm] Call for adoption of 
>>>> draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc as a SACM WG document
>>>> This seems like a fine approach.
>>>> As part of that third item, Iâ€™d like to get requirements from our 
>>>> own drafts as well, starting perhaps with the vulnerability 
>>>> scenario, but also considering our requirements and other drafts.
>>>>
>>>>     On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach
>>>>     <gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Hey Tony, funny thing that you should say that.  You seem to
>>>>     have a better awareness of the other efforts going on out there
>>>>     than I do, so I could use your help in identifying other good
>>>>     candidates and what will be necessary to support as many of
>>>>     them as possible.
>>>>
>>>>     What I'd really like to do is take a more formal approach --
>>>>     gather some requirements and then see from among the existing
>>>>     efforts which is the best from among those that are good
>>>>     enough.  If any.
>>>>
>>>>     But first is a matter of setting the requirements. Stated
>>>>     generally, I really only have three:
>>>>
>>>>       1)  Is extensible -- as a fork outside of the current owner,
>>>>     if necessary, to be sure it continues to meet SACM needs
>>>>     without relying on the good graces of the current owner
>>>>
>>>>       2)  Readily accessible (eg., spec is not cost prohibitive for
>>>>     any users)
>>>>
>>>>       3)  The most complete (that is, closest to being able to
>>>>     represent the other tag types without loss of data or
>>>>     shoe-horning data into fields that weren't really meant for
>>>>     that type of data)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     I'm sure Charles, et al, will have other requirements, so feel
>>>>     free to chime in. However, I think the simpler and more
>>>>     informal we can keep this list the quicker we can grind through it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     --gun
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On 6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Hi Adam,
>>>>
>>>>         A good solution.  Charles and Gunnar should also engage
>>>>         in some proactive outreach. Simply stating that "no other
>>>>         solutions to the problem of software identification have
>>>>         been submitted" is preposterous when there are so many
>>>>         out there.  IMHO, one of the long-standing problems with
>>>>         SACM is its institutional and participatory insularity in an
>>>>         arena where so many almost identical activities are occurring
>>>>         in other venues where there is far greater industry
>>>>         participation.
>>>>         Ignoring them diminishes the value of whatever SACM
>>>>         accomplishes.
>>>>
>>>>         --tony
>>>>
>>>>         On 2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam Montville wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             All:
>>>>             After several on-list discussions, the last virtual
>>>>             interim, and the discussions surrounding this call for
>>>>             adoption, the chairs acknowledge that there are some
>>>>             key concerns with this draft, but also see that there
>>>>             is rough consensus for adoption.  We additionally note
>>>>             that no other solutions to the problem of software
>>>>             identification have been submitted to the working group
>>>>             [1].
>>>>             Because the topic of software identification, and SWID
>>>>             in particular, appears to be a contentious one, we are
>>>>             designating Charles Schmidt and Gunnar Engelbach as
>>>>             editors of the working group draft [2].  We believe
>>>>             that Charles and Gunnar will bring the necessary
>>>>             balance to this draft, so that the key concerns are
>>>>             sufficiently addressed.
>>>>             Kind regards,
>>>>             Adam & Karen
>>>>             [1] This draft adoption does not preclude future
>>>>             alternative submissions
>>>>             [2] Note that original authors will remain authors, but
>>>>             Charles and Gunnar will hold the pen.
>>>>
>>>>                 On May 17, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Karen O'Donoghue
>>>>                 <odonoghue@isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>                 Folks,
>>>>                 As discussed during our last couple of meetings,
>>>>                 this is the official call for adoption of
>>>>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/ as
>>>>                 a SACM working group document.
>>>>                 Please reply with any comments or concerns along
>>>>                 your support of this action to the mailing list.
>>>>                 Thanks,
>>>>                 Karen and Adam
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 sacm mailing list
>>>>                 sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>>>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>             sacm mailing list
>>>>
>>>>             sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>>>
>>>>             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>         sacm mailing list
>>>>
>>>>         sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>>>
>>>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sacm mailing list
>>>> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>>>
>>
>


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    <br>
    Nah.<br>
    <br>
    The conversation recently about software tags has been about
    translating the various software tags into a common data model where
    that data model is, preferably, one of the existing software tags.<br>
    <br>
    But that would mean having a data model for endpoint attributes and
    a separate data model for software tags.Â  As long as the tag
    information is going to be translated I don't see why it should use
    a data model that is different than that used for other endpoint
    attributes.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    --gun<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/20/2016 4:49 PM, Adam Montville
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1A88355D-CF3B-40B5-A219-094137ABB2B6@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div class="">Hi Gun,</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Iâ€™m going to go out on a limb and say Iâ€™m not
        tracking. Â Are you referring to Mikeâ€™s inquiry about data
        formats? Â If so, Iâ€™m not sure that thread is talking about data
        models as much as it is talking about specific formats (i.e.
        JSON, XML, CBOR, etc.). Â </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I agree with you that software identify information
        is â€œjust a set of endpoint attributesâ€�, but Iâ€™m not sure that
        weâ€™re treating it any differently. Â Can you explain?</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">AdamÂ </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <br class="">
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On Jun 18, 2016, at 12:06 PM, Gunnar Engelbach
            &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com" class="">gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com</a>&gt;
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
              http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> <br
                class="">
              While we're on the topic,<br class="">
              <br class="">
              There is an effort in progress to determine a data model
              for SACM endpoint collection.Â  Software identity
              information is just a set of endpoint attributes.Â  So is
              there a reason why software identity is treated
              differently?<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              --gun<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2016 5:38 AM, Adam
                Montville wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:E79698DE-B183-4AE1-8F6C-08744E8BFFDF@gmail.com"
                type="cite" class="">
                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                  charset=utf-8" class="">
                Hi. Â Because we would like to move our requirements
                through IESG, I would like to drive this to ground. Â 
                There are three things that weâ€™re talking about doing
                when it comes to selecting a data model for software
                identification:
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">1) Extensibility</div>
                <div class="">2) Accessibility (not cost prohibitive)</div>
                <div class="">3) Completeness</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">There is a data model requirement for (1)
                  - DM-014 Attribute Extensibility. Â There does not seem
                  to be a requirement for accessibility (2) or
                  completeness (3). Â </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">My question is this: Do we need such
                  requirements?</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">I would assert that we do not.
                  Â Accessibility is something that we will always judge
                  by virtue of the fact that we operate within the
                  culture of the IETF. Â Completeness is not something we
                  need to put into the requirements draft by virtue of
                  DM-002 Data Model Structure, which indicates that a
                  data model can be structured monolithically or
                  composed of modules/sub-modulesâ€”this seems to imply
                  that we could be ok with â€œcompletenessâ€� potentially
                  coming from more than one place. Â </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Thoughts?</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Adam</div>
                <div class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                          <div class="">On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:12 AM,
                            Romascanu, Dan (Dan) &lt;<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:dromasca@avaya.com" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dromasca@avaya.com">dromasca@avaya.com</a></a>&gt;
                            wrote:</div>
                          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="WordSection1" style="page:
                              WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica;
                              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
                              auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                                  73, 125);" class="">Re: Requirements â€“
                                  is this not what<span
                                    class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                    href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/</a></a><span
                                    class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>is
                                  about? Maybe it needs an update.<o:p
                                    class=""></o:p></span></div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                                  73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                                  73, 125);" class="">Regards,<o:p
                                    class=""></o:p></span></div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                                  73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                                  73, 125);" class="">Dan<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                                  73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
                                  73, 125);" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></span></div>
                              <div style="border-style: none none none
                                solid; border-left-color: blue;
                                border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0cm
                                0cm 0cm 4pt;" class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="border-style: solid none
                                    none; border-top-color: rgb(181,
                                    196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt;
                                    padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><b class=""><span
                                          style="font-size: 10pt;
                                          font-family: Tahoma,
                                          sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
                                        style="font-size: 10pt;
                                        font-family: Tahoma,
                                        sans-serif;" class=""><span
                                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>sacm
                                        [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org"
                                          style="color: purple;
                                          text-decoration: underline;"
                                          class="">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span
                                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><b
                                          class="">On Behalf Of<span
                                            class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span></b>Adam
                                        Montville<br class="">
                                        <b class="">Sent:</b><span
                                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>Friday,
                                        June 10, 2016 2:25 PM<br
                                          class="">
                                        <b class="">To:</b><span
                                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>Gunnar
                                        Engelbach<br class="">
                                        <b class="">Cc:</b><span
                                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>&lt;<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                          href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a></a>&gt;;<span
                                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:tony@yaanatech.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tony@yaanatech.com">tony@yaanatech.com</a></a><br class="">
                                        <b class="">Subject:</b><span
                                          class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span>Re:
                                        [sacm] Call for adoption of
                                        draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc
                                        as a SACM WG document<o:p
                                          class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                    class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class="">This
                                    seems like a fine approach.<o:p
                                      class=""></o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                      class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class="">As part
                                    of that third item, Iâ€™d like to get
                                    requirements from our own drafts as
                                    well, starting perhaps with the
                                    vulnerability scenario, but also
                                    considering our requirements and
                                    other drafts. Â <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                      class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                      class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                    class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
                                    margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
                                    <div class="">
                                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                        0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                        font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                        serif;" class="">On Jun 9, 2016,
                                        at 7:44 PM, Gunnar Engelbach
                                        &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com">gunnar.engelbach@threatguard.com</a>&gt;
                                        wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                    <div class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt;
                                          font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                          'Times New Roman', serif;"><br
                                            class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Hey Tony, funny thing that you
                                          should say that.Â  You seem to
                                          have a better awareness of the
                                          other efforts going on out
                                          there than I do, so I could
                                          use your help in identifying
                                          other good candidates and what
                                          will be necessary to support
                                          as many of them as possible.<br
                                            class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          What I'd really like to do is
                                          take a more formal approach --
                                          gather some requirements and
                                          then see from among the
                                          existing efforts which is the
                                          best from among those that are
                                          good enough.Â  If any.<br
                                            class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          But first is a matter of
                                          setting the requirements.Â 
                                          Stated generally, I really
                                          only have three:<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Â  1)Â  Is extensible -- as a
                                          fork outside of the current
                                          owner, if necessary, to be
                                          sure it continues to meet SACM
                                          needs without relying on the
                                          good graces of the current
                                          owner<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Â  2)Â  Readily accessible (eg.,
                                          spec is not cost prohibitive
                                          for any users)<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Â  3)Â  The most complete (that
                                          is, closest to being able to
                                          represent the other tag types
                                          without loss of data or
                                          shoe-horning data into fields
                                          that weren't really meant for
                                          that type of data)<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          I'm sure Charles, et al, will
                                          have other requirements, so
                                          feel free to chime in.Â 
                                          However, I think the simpler
                                          and more informal we can keep
                                          this list the quicker we can
                                          grind through it.<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          --gun<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: 'Times New
                                            Roman', serif;" class="">On
                                            6/9/2016 2:33 PM, Tony
                                            Rutkowski wrote:<o:p
                                              class=""></o:p></div>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote style="margin-top:
                                          5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"
                                          class="">
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt;
                                            font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: 'Times New
                                            Roman', serif;">Hi Adam,<br
                                              class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            A good solution.Â  Charles
                                            and Gunnar should also
                                            engage<br class="">
                                            in some proactive outreach.Â 
                                            Simply stating that "no
                                            other<span
                                              class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                              class="">
                                            solutions to the problem of
                                            software identification have<span
class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br class="">
                                            been submitted" is
                                            preposterous when there are
                                            so many<br class="">
                                            out there.Â  IMHO, one of the
                                            long-standing problems with<br
                                              class="">
                                            SACM is its institutional
                                            and participatory insularity
                                            in an<span
                                              class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                              class="">
                                            arena where so many almost
                                            identical activities are
                                            occurring<span
                                              class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br
                                              class="">
                                            in other venues where there
                                            is far greater industry
                                            participation.<br class="">
                                            Ignoring them diminishes the
                                            value of whatever SACM<span
class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><br class="">
                                            accomplishes.<br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            --tony<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class="">On
                                              2016-06-09 3:47 PM, Adam
                                              Montville wrote:<o:p
                                                class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote style="margin-top:
                                            5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"
                                            class="">
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class="">All:<o:p
                                                  class=""></o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                  class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class="">After
                                                several on-list
                                                discussions, the last
                                                virtual interim, and the
                                                discussions surrounding
                                                this call for adoption,
                                                the chairs acknowledge
                                                that there are some key
                                                concerns with this
                                                draft, but also see that
                                                there is rough consensus
                                                for adoption. Â We
                                                additionally note that
                                                no other solutions to
                                                the problem of software
                                                identification have been
                                                submitted to the working
                                                group [1].<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                  class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class="">Because
                                                the topic of software
                                                identification, and SWID
                                                in particular, appears
                                                to be a contentious one,
                                                we are designating
                                                Charles Schmidt and
                                                Gunnar Engelbach as
                                                editors of the working
                                                group draft [2]. Â We
                                                believe that Charles and
                                                Gunnar will bring the
                                                necessary balance to
                                                this draft, so that the
                                                key concerns are
                                                sufficiently addressed.<o:p
                                                  class=""></o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                  class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class="">Kind
                                                regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                  class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class="">Adam
                                                &amp; Karen<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                  class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class="">[1]
                                                This draft adoption does
                                                not preclude future
                                                alternative submissions<o:p
                                                  class=""></o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class="">[2]
                                                Note that original
                                                authors will remain
                                                authors, but Charles and
                                                Gunnar will hold the
                                                pen.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                12pt; font-family:
                                                'Times New Roman',
                                                serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                  class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                                class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <blockquote
                                                style="margin-top: 5pt;
                                                margin-bottom: 5pt;"
                                                class="">
                                                <div class="">
                                                  <div style="margin:
                                                    0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                                    font-size: 12pt;
                                                    font-family: 'Times
                                                    New Roman', serif;"
                                                    class="">On May 17,
                                                    2016, at 11:21 AM,
                                                    Karen O'Donoghue
                                                    &lt;<a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org">odonoghue@isoc.org</a></a>&gt;
                                                    wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                  0cm 0.0001pt;
                                                  font-size: 12pt;
                                                  font-family: 'Times
                                                  New Roman', serif;"
                                                  class=""><o:p class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                                <div class="">
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <div style="margin:
                                                      0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                                      font-size: 12pt;
                                                      font-family:
                                                      'Times New Roman',
                                                      serif;" class="">Folks,<span
class="Apple-converted-space">Â </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="margin:
                                                        0cm 0cm
                                                        0.0001pt;
                                                        font-size: 12pt;
                                                        font-family:
                                                        'Times New
                                                        Roman', serif;"
                                                        class=""><o:p
                                                          class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="margin:
                                                        0cm 0cm
                                                        0.0001pt;
                                                        font-size: 12pt;
                                                        font-family:
                                                        'Times New
                                                        Roman', serif;"
                                                        class="">As
                                                        discussed during
                                                        our last couple
                                                        of meetings,
                                                        this is the
                                                        official call
                                                        for adoption ofÂ <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-nea-swid-patnc/</a></a>Â as
                                                        a SACM working
                                                        group document.Â <o:p
                                                          class=""></o:p></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="margin:
                                                        0cm 0cm
                                                        0.0001pt;
                                                        font-size: 12pt;
                                                        font-family:
                                                        'Times New
                                                        Roman', serif;"
                                                        class=""><o:p
                                                          class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="margin:
                                                        0cm 0cm
                                                        0.0001pt;
                                                        font-size: 12pt;
                                                        font-family:
                                                        'Times New
                                                        Roman', serif;"
                                                        class="">Please
                                                        reply with any
                                                        comments or
                                                        concerns along
                                                        your support of
                                                        this action to
                                                        the mailing
                                                        list.Â <o:p
                                                          class=""></o:p></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="margin:
                                                        0cm 0cm
                                                        0.0001pt;
                                                        font-size: 12pt;
                                                        font-family:
                                                        'Times New
                                                        Roman', serif;"
                                                        class=""><o:p
                                                          class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="margin:
                                                        0cm 0cm
                                                        0.0001pt;
                                                        font-size: 12pt;
                                                        font-family:
                                                        'Times New
                                                        Roman', serif;"
                                                        class="">Thanks,<o:p
                                                          class=""></o:p></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="margin:
                                                        0cm 0cm
                                                        0.0001pt;
                                                        font-size: 12pt;
                                                        font-family:
                                                        'Times New
                                                        Roman', serif;"
                                                        class="">Karen
                                                        and Adam<o:p
                                                          class=""></o:p></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div style="margin:
                                                    0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                                    font-size: 12pt;
                                                    font-family: 'Times
                                                    New Roman', serif;"
                                                    class="">_______________________________________________<br
                                                      class="">
                                                    sacm mailing list<br
                                                      class="">
                                                    <a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                                                      underline;"
                                                      class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a></a><br
                                                      class="">
                                                    <a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style="color: purple;
                                                      text-decoration:
                                                      underline;"
                                                      class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></a><o:p
                                                      class=""></o:p></div>
                                                </div>
                                              </blockquote>
                                            </div>
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: 'Times New
                                              Roman', serif;" class=""><br
                                                class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                            <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                            <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">sacm mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                            <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                            <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                          </blockquote>
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: 'Times New
                                            Roman', serif;" class=""><br
                                              class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                          <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                          <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">sacm mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                          <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">sacm@ietf.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                          <pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
                                        </blockquote>
                                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                          0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                          font-family: 'Times New
                                          Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                            class="">Â </o:p></div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
                                    class="">Â </o:p></div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <span style="font-family: Helvetica;
                              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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                              class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
                              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
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                              class="">sacm mailing list</span><br
                              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
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                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Question about DM Requirements
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Subject: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for adoption=
 thread and had some questions.


In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:


                    "Multiple data models, protocols, and transports may be=
 employed in a SACM environment..."



Then DM-001 says:



"DM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data model elem=
ent for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address, asset). =
 In other words, for every item in the information model, there must be an =
item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements that do n=
ot exist in the information model."



Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying t=
hat every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each DM=
 must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just support=
 a portion of the IM.



Also, DM-002 says:


"DM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured either as o=
ne single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for r=
eferences between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect structure in =
the information model, but does not need to. For example, the data model mi=
ght use one module to define endpoints, and that module might reference oth=
er modules that describe the various assets associated with the endpoint. C=
onstraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate a=
mbiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate netwo=
rks)."



Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the IM=
, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so cho=
ose?



Thanks,

Danny



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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill=
-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%">I was reviewing the DM=
 requirements based on the SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had so=
me questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill=
-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">In Section 2 of the Re=
quirements, it says:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1=
F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:1=
00.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">&#8220;Multiple data models, protoc=
ols, and transports may be employed in a SACM environment&#8230;&#8221;<o:p=
></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Then DM-001 says:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:45.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-col=
or:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext">&#8220;DM-001&nbsp; Element Association: The data model MUST contain=
 a data model element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP=
 address, asset).&nbsp; In other words, for every item in the information m=
odel, there must be an item in the data model.&nbsp; The data model can als=
o include elements that do not exist in the information model.&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Does this requirement =
conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying that every DM must cont=
ain an element for each IM element? &nbsp;That is, each DM must support the=
 entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just support a portion of the=
 IM.<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Also, DM-002 says:<br>=
<br><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color=
:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowt=
ext">&#8220;DM-002&nbsp; Data Model Structure: The data model can be struct=
ured either as one single module or separated into modules and sub-modules =
that allow for references between them.&nbsp; The data model structure MAY =
reflect structure in the information model, but does not need to. For examp=
le, the data model might use one module to define endpoints, and that modul=
e might reference other modules that describe the various assets associated=
 with the endpoint. Constraints and interfaces might further be defined to =
resolve or tolerate ambiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used =
in two separate networks).&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Is this effectively re=
iterating that a DM must support everything in the IM, but, that the DM can=
 choose to break it up into submodules if they so choose?<o:p></o:p></span>=
</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill=
-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Thanks,<br><br>Danny<o=
:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 15:07:10 -0400
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To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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Hi Danny,

My two cents.

A conforming *subset* Data Model should be perfectly acceptable
in SACM (e.g., one optimized for roaming mobile devices).

That DM-02 statement:

  "The data model structure MAY reflect structure in the information
  model, but does not need to."

makes me uncomfortable...

Changing packaging is OK, but changing the structure (i.e., hierarchy)
of the IM sounds wrong to me.

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434


On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for
> adoption thread and had some questions.
>
>
>
> In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:
>
>                     =E2=80=9CMultiple data models, protocols, and transpo=
rts may be employed in a SACM environment=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Then DM-001 says:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CDM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data =
model element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address=
, asset).  In other words, for every item in the information model, there m=
ust be an item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements=
 that do not exist in the information model.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying=
 that every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each =
DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just suppo=
rt a portion of the IM.
>
>
>
> Also, DM-002 says:
>
> =E2=80=9CDM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured e=
ither as one single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that a=
llow for references between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect str=
ucture in the information model, but does not need to. For example, the dat=
a model might use one module to define endpoints, and that module might ref=
erence other modules that describe the various assets associated with the e=
ndpoint. Constraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or =
tolerate ambiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two sepa=
rate networks).=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the =
IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so c=
hoose?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Danny,<br>=
<br></div>My two cents.<br><br></div>A conforming *subset* Data Model shoul=
d be perfectly acceptable<br></div>in SACM (e.g., one optimized for roaming=
 mobile devices).<br><br></div>That DM-02 statement:<br><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)"=
><span style=3D"color:windowtext"><br>=C2=A0 &quot;The data model structure=
 MAY reflect structure in the information <br>=C2=A0 model, but does not ne=
ed to.&quot;</span></span><br><br></div>makes me uncomfortable...<br><br></=
div>Changing packaging is OK, but changing the structure (i.e., hierarchy)<=
br></div>of the IM sounds wrong to me.<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<=
br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ir=
a McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobili=
ty Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary -=
 IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Print=
ing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue R=
oof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"htt=
p://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.goo=
gle.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D=
"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.=
google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 5=
79 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=
=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><br><div =
style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div sty=
le=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></d=
iv></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Haynes, Dan=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">





<div link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f4e79">I was reviewing the DM=
 requirements based on the SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had so=
me questions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">In Section 2 of the Re=
quirements, it says:<br><br><u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#=
1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">=E2=80=9CMultiple data models, pro=
tocols, and transports may be employed in a SACM environment=E2=80=A6=E2=80=
=9D<u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Then DM-001 says:<u></=
u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:45.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext">=E2=80=9CDM-001=C2=A0 Element Association: The data model MUST conta=
in a data model element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, =
IP address, asset).=C2=A0 In other words, for every item in the information=
 model, there must be an item in the data model.=C2=A0 The data model can a=
lso include elements that do not exist in the information model.=E2=80=9D<u=
></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Does this requirement =
conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying that every DM must cont=
ain an element for each IM element?=C2=A0 That is, each DM must support the=
 entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just support a portion of the=
 IM.<u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Also, DM-002 says:<br>=
<br><u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowt=
ext">=E2=80=9CDM-002=C2=A0 Data Model Structure: The data model can be stru=
ctured either as one single module or separated into modules and sub-module=
s that allow for references between them.=C2=A0 The data model structure MA=
Y reflect structure in the information model, but does not need to. For exa=
mple, the data model might use one module to define endpoints, and that mod=
ule might reference other modules that describe the various assets associat=
ed with the endpoint. Constraints and interfaces might further be defined t=
o resolve or tolerate ambiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address use=
d in two separate networks).=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Is this effectively re=
iterating that a DM must support everything in the IM, but, that the DM can=
 choose to break it up into submodules if they so choose?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Thanks,<br><br>Danny<u=
></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 18:13:44 -0400
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To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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Hi Dan,

Yes by "packaging" I meant to loosely refer to encoding (XML, JSON, etc.).

And I like clarifying that maintaining structure is maintaining
relationships
(parent/child, dependencies, and others) between info/data elements.

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434


On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> Hi Ira,
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
>
>
> By =E2=80=9Cpackaging=E2=80=9D, do you mean data format (e.g. xml, cbor, =
etc.)?
>
>
>
> Also, with respect to your concern about changing the =E2=80=9Cstructure=
=E2=80=9D, maybe
> we want it to say something like the DM must maintain relationships betwe=
en
> information elements in the IM?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> *From:* Ira McDonald [mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2016 3:07 PM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>; Ira McDonald <
> blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
>
>
>
> Hi Danny,
>
> My two cents.
>
> A conforming *subset* Data Model should be perfectly acceptable
>
> in SACM (e.g., one optimized for roaming mobile devices).
>
> That DM-02 statement:
>
>   "The data model structure MAY reflect structure in the information
>   model, but does not need to."
>
> makes me uncomfortable...
>
> Changing packaging is OK, but changing the structure (i.e., hierarchy)
>
> of the IM sounds wrong to me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Ira
>
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>
> I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for
> adoption thread and had some questions.
>
>
>
> In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:
>
>                     =E2=80=9CMultiple data models, protocols, and transpo=
rts may be employed in a SACM environment=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Then DM-001 says:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CDM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data =
model element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address=
, asset).  In other words, for every item in the information model, there m=
ust be an item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements=
 that do not exist in the information model.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying=
 that every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each =
DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just suppo=
rt a portion of the IM.
>
>
>
> Also, DM-002 says:
>
> =E2=80=9CDM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured e=
ither as one single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that a=
llow for references between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect str=
ucture in the information model, but does not need to. For example, the dat=
a model might use one module to define endpoints, and that module might ref=
erence other modules that describe the various assets associated with the e=
ndpoint. Constraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or =
tolerate ambiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two sepa=
rate networks).=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the =
IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so c=
hoose?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Dan,<br><br></div>Yes by &quot=
;packaging&quot; I meant to loosely refer to encoding (XML, JSON, etc.).<br=
><br></div>And I like clarifying that maintaining structure is maintaining =
relationships<br></div>(parent/child, dependencies, and others) between inf=
o/data elements.<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-sm=
artmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Softw=
are Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - L=
inux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working G=
roup<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Desi=
gnated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<b=
r><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/bl=
ueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</=
a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/sit=
e/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc=
</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, =
MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Ma=
rais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><br><div style=3D"display:inline"></di=
v><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><=
div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Haynes, Dan=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Ira,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
Thanks for the feedback!=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">By =E2=80=9Cpackaging=E2=80=9D, do yo=
u mean data format (e.g. xml, cbor, etc.)?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Also, with respect to your concern ab=
out changing the =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D, maybe we want it to say somet=
hing like the DM must maintain relationships between information
 elements in the IM?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Ira McDonald [mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.c=
om</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 3:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_=
blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;; Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bluero=
ofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Danny,<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">My two cents.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A conforming *subset* Data Model should be perfectly=
 acceptable<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">in SACM (e.g., one op=
timized for roaming mobile devices).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">That DM-02 statement:=
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
><br>
=C2=A0 &quot;The data model structure MAY reflect structure in the informat=
ion <br>
=C2=A0 model, but does not need to.&quot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">makes me uncomfortabl=
e...<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Changing packaging is OK, but changing the structure=
 (i.e., hierarchy)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">of the IM sounds wron=
g to me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Ira<u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ira McDonald (Musicia=
n / Software Architect)<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br>
<a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank"><s=
pan style=3D"color:#3333ff">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</spa=
n></a><br>
<a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank"><sp=
an style=3D"color:#6600cc">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span>=
</a><br>
mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bluero=
ofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 <a href=3D"t=
el:734-944-0094" value=3D"+17349440094" target=3D"_blank">734-944-0094</a><=
br>
Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 <a href=3D"tel:9=
06-494-2434" value=3D"+19064942434" target=3D"_blank">906-494-2434</a><u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&g=
t; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f4e79">I was reviewing the DM=
 requirements based on the SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had so=
me questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">In Section 2 of the Requirements, it s=
ays:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=9CMultiple data models, protocols, and transports may be employed in a SAC=
M environment=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Then DM-001 says:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:45.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=9CDM-001=C2=A0 Element Associatio=
n: The data model MUST contain a data model element for each information mo=
del element (e.g. endpoint, IP address, asset).=C2=A0 In other words, for e=
very item in the information model, there must be an item in the data model=
.=C2=A0 The data model can also include elements that do not exist in the i=
nformation model.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by sa=
ying that every DM must contain an element for each IM element?=C2=A0 That =
is, each DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to j=
ust support a portion of the IM.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Also, DM-002 says:</span><u></u><u></u=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=9CDM-002=C2=A0 Data Model Structure=
: The data model can be structured either as one single module or separated=
 into modules and sub-modules that allow for references between them.=C2=A0=
 The data model structure MAY reflect structure in the information model, b=
ut does not need to. For example, the data model might use one module to de=
fine endpoints, and that module might reference other modules that describe=
 the various assets associated with the endpoint. Constraints and interface=
s might further be defined to resolve or tolerate ambiguity in the referenc=
es (e.g. same IP address used in two separate networks).=E2=80=9D</span><u>=
</u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in =
the IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they =
so choose?</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Thanks,<br><br>Danny</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1147d7cc888bfa0535d12321--


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From: "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
To: "'Haynes, Dan'" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, <sacm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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Just my $0.02

 

From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM
To: sacm@ietf.org
Subject: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

 

I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for adoption
thread and had some questions.

 

In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:
                    "Multiple data models, protocols, and transports may be
employed in a SACM environment."
 
Then DM-001 says:
 
"DM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data model
element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address,
asset).  In other words, for every item in the information model, there must
be an item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements that
do not exist in the information model."
 
Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying
that every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each DM
must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just support a
portion of the IM.
 
[JLS] I see no conflict here.  What the first statement says is that a SACM
environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B from different companies
as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one that we are defining.
Each of those data models needs to be complete relative to the single SACM
IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B or SACM) my application uses
it will be able to get all of the elements in the IM as part of a query.
 
Also, DM-002 says:
"DM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured either as
one single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for
references between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect structure in
the information model, but does not need to. For example, the data model
might use one module to define endpoints, and that module might reference
other modules that describe the various assets associated with the endpoint.
Constraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate
ambiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate
networks)."
 
Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the IM,
but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so
choose?
 
[JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.  If you are
looking at an XML schema as being the data model for Company X, it could
publish a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas for different
pieces (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included in the top
level schema.  There is still are requirement that the entirety of the
schema be complete, but it allows for the user schema to be updated to
include additional elements that are Company X specific without having to
update the entire schema at the same time.  It would also allow for both of
the sub-schemas for users to be supported at the same time if desired.
 
Jim
 
 
Thanks,

Danny
 

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Just my $0.02<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> sacm =
[mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, =
Dan<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
sacm@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [sacm] Question about DM =
Requirements<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F4E79'>I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the =
SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had some =
questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F4E79'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>In Section 2 of the Requirements, it =
says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Multiple data models, =
protocols, and transports may be employed in a SACM =
environment&#8230;&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Then DM-001 says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:45.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>&#8220;DM-001&nbsp; Element Association: The data model MUST contain a =
data model element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP =
address, asset).&nbsp; In other words, for every item in the information =
model, there must be an item in the data model.&nbsp; The data model can =
also include elements that do not exist in the information =
model.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by =
saying that every DM must contain an element for each IM element? =
&nbsp;That is, each DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible =
for a DM to just support a portion of the =
IM.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'>[JL=
S] I see no conflict here.&nbsp; What the first statement says is that a =
SACM environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B from different =
companies as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one that we are =
defining.&nbsp; Each of those data models needs to be complete relative =
to the single SACM IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B or =
SACM) my application uses it will be able to get all of the elements in =
the IM as part of a query.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Also, DM-002 says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>&#8220;DM-002&nbsp; Data Model Structure: The data model can be =
structured either as one single module or separated into modules and =
sub-modules that allow for references between them.&nbsp; The data model =
structure MAY reflect structure in the information model, but does not =
need to. For example, the data model might use one module to define =
endpoints, and that module might reference other modules that describe =
the various assets associated with the endpoint. Constraints and =
interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate ambiguity in =
the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate =
networks).&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in =
the IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if =
they so choose?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'>[JL=
S] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.&nbsp; If you are =
looking at an XML schema as being the data model for Company X, it could =
publish a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas for =
different pieces (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included =
in the top level schema.&nbsp; There is still are requirement that the =
entirety of the schema be complete, but it allows for the user schema to =
be updated to include additional elements that are Company X specific =
without having to update the entire schema at the same time.&nbsp; It =
would also allow for both of the sub-schemas for users to be supported =
at the same time if desired.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'>Jim=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Thanks,<br><br>Danny<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre></div></div></body></html>
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/Z79lPuOUUK4PtQo_ZXKeBQzAxFE>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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Thanks for the feedback Ira and Jim.  Based on your $0.04 :), I see a coupl=
e of approaches that may help things.


(1)    We could completely overhaul DM-002 such that it simply states how t=
he relationships between information model elements MUST be maintained in t=
he data model. By removing the text around the DM potentially being a singl=
e or multiple modules, I think we would still enable DM designers to make t=
hat decision, however, it would now be implied. I guess the question here i=
s whether or not that is good enough?  Or, do we want a specific requiremen=
t around it?



(2)    Modify DM-002 to remove the part about "reflecting the structure of =
the IM" and keep it focused on the DM being able to be a single or multiple=
 modules. Then, add a new DM requirement around maintaining the relationshi=
ps between the information model elements in the data model elements.

Do either of these seem to help?

Do others, who have not weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?

Thanks,

Danny


From: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>; sacm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

Just my $0.02

From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM
To: sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for adoption=
 thread and had some questions.


In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:

                    "Multiple data models, protocols, and transports may be=
 employed in a SACM environment..."



Then DM-001 says:



"DM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data model elem=
ent for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address, asset). =
 In other words, for every item in the information model, there must be an =
item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements that do n=
ot exist in the information model."



Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying t=
hat every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each DM=
 must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just support=
 a portion of the IM.



[JLS] I see no conflict here.  What the first statement says is that a SACM=
 environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B from different companie=
s as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one that we are defining. =
 Each of those data models needs to be complete relative to the single SACM=
 IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B or SACM) my application us=
es it will be able to get all of the elements in the IM as part of a query.



Also, DM-002 says:

"DM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured either as o=
ne single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for r=
eferences between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect structure in =
the information model, but does not need to. For example, the data model mi=
ght use one module to define endpoints, and that module might reference oth=
er modules that describe the various assets associated with the endpoint. C=
onstraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate a=
mbiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate netwo=
rks)."



Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the IM=
, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so cho=
ose?



[JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.  If you are look=
ing at an XML schema as being the data model for Company X, it could publis=
h a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas for different pieces=
 (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included in the top level sch=
ema.  There is still are requirement that the entirety of the schema be com=
plete, but it allows for the user schema to be updated to include additiona=
l elements that are Company X specific without having to update the entire =
schema at the same time.  It would also allow for both of the sub-schemas f=
or users to be supported at the same time if desired.



Jim





Thanks,

Danny



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks for the feedbac=
k Ira and Jim.&nbsp; Based on your $0.04 :), I see a couple of approaches t=
hat may help things.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">(1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">We could compl=
etely overhaul DM-002 such that it simply states how the relationships betw=
een information model elements MUST be maintained in the data model. By rem=
oving the text around the DM potentially
 being a single or multiple modules, I think we would still enable DM desig=
ners to make that decision, however, it would now be implied. I guess the q=
uestion here is whether or not that is good enough? &nbsp;Or, do we want a =
specific requirement around it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">(2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Modify DM-002 =
to remove the part about &#8220;reflecting the structure of the IM&#8221; a=
nd keep it focused on the DM being able to be a single or multiple modules.=
 Then, add a new DM requirement around maintaining
 the relationships between the information model elements in the data model=
 elements.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Do either of these see=
m to help?&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Do others, who have no=
t weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.c=
om] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;dhaynes@mitre.org&gt;; sacm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just my $0.02<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">I was reviewing the DM=
 requirements based on the SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had so=
me questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">In Section 2 of the Requ=
irements, it says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Multiple=
 data models, protocols, and transports may be employed in a SACM environme=
nt&#8230;&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Then DM-001 says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:45.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">&#8220;DM-001&nbsp; Elemen=
t Association: The data model MUST contain a data model element for each in=
formation model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address, asset).&nbsp; In other =
words, for every item in the information model, there must be an item in th=
e data model.&nbsp; The data model can also include elements that do not ex=
ist in the information model.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Does this requirement conflict with the text above in S=
ection 2 by saying that every DM must contain an element for each IM elemen=
t? &nbsp;That is, each DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible=
 for a DM to just support a portion of the IM.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">[JLS] I see no conflict here.&nbsp; What the first statemen=
t says is that a SACM environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B fr=
om different companies as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one t=
hat we are defining.&nbsp; Each of those data models needs to be complete r=
elative to the single SACM IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B =
or SACM) my application uses it will be able to get all of the elements in =
the IM as part of a query.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">Also, DM-002 says:<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">&#8220;DM-002&nbsp; Data Mod=
el Structure: The data model can be structured either as one single module =
or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for references between=
 them.&nbsp; The data model structure MAY reflect structure in the informat=
ion model, but does not need to. For example, the data model might use one =
module to define endpoints, and that module might reference other modules t=
hat describe the various assets associated with the endpoint. Constraints a=
nd interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate ambiguity in =
the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate networks).&#8221;=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support =
everything in the IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submo=
dules if they so choose?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">[JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.&=
nbsp; If you are looking at an XML schema as being the data model for Compa=
ny X, it could publish a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas=
 for different pieces (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included=
 in the top level schema.&nbsp; There is still are requirement that the ent=
irety of the schema be complete, but it allows for the user schema to be up=
dated to include additional elements that are Company X specific without ha=
ving to update the entire schema at the same time.&nbsp; It would also allo=
w for both of the sub-schemas for users to be supported at the same time if=
 desired.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Thanks,<br><br>Danny<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/d6DSjwQoQOzZnxTFyNiYBgh0jkE>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
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Given the feedback, I have pulled these changes into the development draft =
of the I-D on GitHub and they will be available in the next revision.

Thanks,

Danny

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henk Birkholz
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:03 AM
> To: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 - Update
> Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
>=20
> The changes look fine to me.
>=20
> The CSC 4 System Entity Relationship diagram seems to imply the use of a
> vulnerability scanner, I think. Could an "SCAP Unauthenticated Vulnerabil=
ity
> Scanner" be used as an example for a Posture Collector that does not resi=
de
> on the target endpoint itself?
>=20
> Gr=FC=DFe,
>=20
> Henk
>=20
>=20
> On 06/20/2016 04:04 PM, Haynes, Dan wrote:
> > Thanks Adam.  Do others have thoughts on these changes?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > *From:*Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2016 5:59 PM
> > *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> > *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #23 -
> > Update Appendix E to Reference CSC v6.0
> >
> > This looks good from my perspective, Danny, thank you.
> >
> >     On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> >     <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     We have a tracker that recommends updating Appendix E to reference
> >     Critical Security Controls v6.0 instead of v5.1 [1][2].  I went
> >     through both versions of the document and made the appropriate
> >     updates to the text (see attached) as some controls have changed or
> >     have been removed.
> >
> >     Please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem
> >     reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the
> >     Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >
> >     Danny
> >
> >     [1]https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/23
> >
> >     [2]https://www.cisecurity.org/critical-controls.cfm
> >
> >     <csc-
> updates.docx>_______________________________________________
> >     sacm mailing list
> >     sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sacm mailing list
> > sacm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 15:49:12 -0400
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To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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Cc: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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--001a1136e7da76a2570535e33c0b
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Hi Danny,

I think I prefer (2) simply because I prefer single, small requirements
(lots)
as opposed to compound requirements (which some of ours currently are,
because of their explanatory and exemplary extra sentences).

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
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Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
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On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback Ira and Jim.  Based on your $0.04 :), I see a
> couple of approaches that may help things.
>
>
>
> (1)    We could completely overhaul DM-002 such that it simply states how
> the relationships between information model elements MUST be maintained i=
n
> the data model. By removing the text around the DM potentially being a
> single or multiple modules, I think we would still enable DM designers to
> make that decision, however, it would now be implied. I guess the questio=
n
> here is whether or not that is good enough?  Or, do we want a specific
> requirement around it?
>
>
>
> (2)    Modify DM-002 to remove the part about =E2=80=9Creflecting the str=
ucture
> of the IM=E2=80=9D and keep it focused on the DM being able to be a singl=
e or
> multiple modules. Then, add a new DM requirement around maintaining the
> relationships between the information model elements in the data model
> elements.
>
>
>
> Do either of these seem to help?
>
>
>
> Do others, who have not weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>; sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
>
>
>
> Just my $0.02
>
>
>
> *From:* sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org <sacm-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *Haynes, Dan
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM
> *To:* sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
>
>
>
> I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for
> adoption thread and had some questions.
>
>
>
> In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:
>
>                     =E2=80=9CMultiple data models, protocols, and transpo=
rts may be employed in a SACM environment=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Then DM-001 says:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CDM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data =
model element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address=
, asset).  In other words, for every item in the information model, there m=
ust be an item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements=
 that do not exist in the information model.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying=
 that every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each =
DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just suppo=
rt a portion of the IM.
>
>
>
> [JLS] I see no conflict here.  What the first statement says is that a SA=
CM environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B from different compan=
ies as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one that we are defining=
.  Each of those data models needs to be complete relative to the single SA=
CM IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B or SACM) my application =
uses it will be able to get all of the elements in the IM as part of a quer=
y.
>
>
>
> Also, DM-002 says:
>
> =E2=80=9CDM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured e=
ither as one single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that a=
llow for references between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect str=
ucture in the information model, but does not need to. For example, the dat=
a model might use one module to define endpoints, and that module might ref=
erence other modules that describe the various assets associated with the e=
ndpoint. Constraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or =
tolerate ambiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two sepa=
rate networks).=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the =
IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so c=
hoose?
>
>
>
> [JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.  If you are lo=
oking at an XML schema as being the data model for Company X, it could publ=
ish a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas for different piec=
es (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included in the top level s=
chema.  There is still are requirement that the entirety of the schema be c=
omplete, but it allows for the user schema to be updated to include additio=
nal elements that are Company X specific without having to update the entir=
e schema at the same time.  It would also allow for both of the sub-schemas=
 for users to be supported at the same time if desired.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>

--001a1136e7da76a2570535e33c0b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Danny,<br><br></div>I think I =
prefer (2) simply because I prefer single, small requirements (lots)<br></d=
iv>as opposed to compound requirements (which some of ours currently are,<b=
r></div>because of their explanatory and exemplary extra sentences).<br><br=
></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=
=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signat=
ure"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Ch=
air - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Pr=
inting WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE=
-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &am=
p; Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb=
(51,51,255)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"=
_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color=
:rgb(102,0,204)" href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=
=3D"_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.=
com</a><br>Winter=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 7=
34-944-0094<br>Summer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 9=
06-494-2434<br><br><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"displa=
y:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><=
div></div><div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Haynes, Dan=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">





<div link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Thanks for the feedbac=
k Ira and Jim.=C2=A0 Based on your $0.04 :), I see a couple of approaches t=
hat may help things.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p><u></u><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><span>(1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">We could complete=
ly overhaul DM-002 such that it simply states how the relationships between=
 information model elements MUST be maintained in the data model. By removi=
ng the text around the DM potentially
 being a single or multiple modules, I think we would still enable DM desig=
ners to make that decision, however, it would now be implied. I guess the q=
uestion here is whether or not that is good enough?=C2=A0 Or, do we want a =
specific requirement around it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><span>(2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Modify DM-002 to =
remove the part about =E2=80=9Creflecting the structure of the IM=E2=80=9D =
and keep it focused on the DM being able to be a single or multiple modules=
. Then, add a new DM requirement around maintaining
 the relationships between the information model elements in the data model=
 elements.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Do either of these see=
m to help?=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Do others, who have no=
t weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jim Schaad [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ie=
tf@augustcellars.com" target=3D"_blank">ietf@augustcellars.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_=
blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just my $0.02<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f4e79">I was reviewing the DM=
 requirements based on the SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had so=
me questions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">In Section 2 of the Requ=
irements, it says:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CMulti=
ple data models, protocols, and transports may be employed in a SACM enviro=
nment=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">Then DM-001 says:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:45.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">=E2=80=9CDM-001=C2=A0 Elem=
ent Association: The data model MUST contain a data model element for each =
information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address, asset).=C2=A0 In othe=
r words, for every item in the information model, there must be an item in =
the data model.=C2=A0 The data model can also include elements that do not =
exist in the information model.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">Does this requirement conflict with the text above in S=
ection 2 by saying that every DM must contain an element for each IM elemen=
t?=C2=A0 That is, each DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible=
 for a DM to just support a portion of the IM.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">[JLS] I see no conflict here.=C2=A0 What the first statemen=
t says is that a SACM environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B fr=
om different companies as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one t=
hat we are defining.=C2=A0 Each of those data models needs to be complete r=
elative to the single SACM IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B =
or SACM) my application uses it will be able to get all of the elements in =
the IM as part of a query.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">Also, DM-002 says:<u></u=
><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">=E2=80=9CDM-002=C2=A0 Data M=
odel Structure: The data model can be structured either as one single modul=
e or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for references betwe=
en them.=C2=A0 The data model structure MAY reflect structure in the inform=
ation model, but does not need to. For example, the data model might use on=
e module to define endpoints, and that module might reference other modules=
 that describe the various assets associated with the endpoint. Constraints=
 and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate ambiguity i=
n the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate networks).=E2=
=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support =
everything in the IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submo=
dules if they so choose?<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">[JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.=
=C2=A0 If you are looking at an XML schema as being the data model for Comp=
any X, it could publish a top level schema which then allows for sub schema=
s for different pieces (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are include=
d in the top level schema.=C2=A0 There is still are requirement that the en=
tirety of the schema be complete, but it allows for the user schema to be u=
pdated to include additional elements that are Company X specific without h=
aving to update the entire schema at the same time.=C2=A0 It would also all=
ow for both of the sub-schemas for users to be supported at the same time i=
f desired.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1f4e79">Thanks,<br><br>Danny<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:57 AM
To: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>; sacm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

 

Thanks for the feedback Ira and Jim.  Based on your $0.04 :), I see a couple
of approaches that may help things. 

[JLS] I am not sure that there is any need to change the requirements unless
you believe that the IM/DM which are being proposed as the SACM versions is
going to violate the current set of requirements.  Are you just having
problems understanding what they are saying or do you believe that there is
a violation involved?

 

(1)   We could completely overhaul DM-002 such that it simply states how the
relationships between information model elements MUST be maintained in the
data model. By removing the text around the DM potentially being a single or
multiple modules, I think we would still enable DM designers to make that
decision, however, it would now be implied. I guess the question here is
whether or not that is good enough?  Or, do we want a specific requirement
around it?

[JLS] It is not clear to me that we would continue to allow for a DM to be
done in pieces or not if this was removed.  We have stated explicitly that
the IM cannot be done by sub-modules (something I personally believe to be
wrong).  By default I would expect that people would believe that DMs would
need to keep this as well without explicit language.

 

(2)   Modify DM-002 to remove the part about "reflecting the structure of
the IM" and keep it focused on the DM being able to be a single or multiple
modules. Then, add a new DM requirement around maintaining the relationships
between the information model elements in the data model elements. 

 

[JLS] This makes me a bit worried.  What in the structure of the IM would
you not want to reflect into the IM?  For me the structure of the IM is the
relationships between the different elements of the IM.  I really do want
the DM to reflect that.

 

Do either of these seem to help?  

 

Do others, who have not weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?

 

Thanks,

Danny

 

 

From: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org> >;
sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org> 
Subject: RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

 

Just my $0.02

 

From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM
To: sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org> 
Subject: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

 

I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for adoption
thread and had some questions.

 

In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:
                    "Multiple data models, protocols, and transports may be
employed in a SACM environment."
 
Then DM-001 says:
 
"DM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data model
element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address,
asset).  In other words, for every item in the information model, there must
be an item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements that
do not exist in the information model."
 
Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying
that every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each DM
must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just support a
portion of the IM.
 
[JLS] I see no conflict here.  What the first statement says is that a SACM
environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B from different companies
as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one that we are defining.
Each of those data models needs to be complete relative to the single SACM
IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B or SACM) my application uses
it will be able to get all of the elements in the IM as part of a query.
 
Also, DM-002 says:
"DM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured either as
one single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for
references between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect structure in
the information model, but does not need to. For example, the data model
might use one module to define endpoints, and that module might reference
other modules that describe the various assets associated with the endpoint.
Constraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate
ambiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate
networks)."
 
Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the IM,
but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so
choose?
 
[JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.  If you are
looking at an XML schema as being the data model for Company X, it could
publish a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas for different
pieces (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included in the top
level schema.  There is still are requirement that the entirety of the
schema be complete, but it allows for the user schema to be updated to
include additional elements that are Company X specific without having to
update the entire schema at the same time.  It would also allow for both of
the sub-schemas for users to be supported at the same time if desired.
 
Jim
 
 
Thanks,

Danny
 

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> sacm =
[mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, =
Dan<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:57 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jim =
Schaad &lt;ietf@augustcellars.com&gt;; sacm@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks for the feedback Ira and Jim.&nbsp; Based =
on your $0.04 :), I see a couple of approaches that may help things. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#548235;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#548235;mso-style-te=
xtfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>[JLS] I am not sure that there is any need to =
change the requirements unless you believe that the IM/DM which are =
being proposed as the SACM versions is going to violate the current set =
of requirements.&nbsp; Are you just having problems understanding what =
they are saying or do you believe that there is a violation =
involved?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>(1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>We could completely overhaul DM-002 such that it =
simply states how the relationships between information model elements =
MUST be maintained in the data model. By removing the text around the DM =
potentially being a single or multiple modules, I think we would still =
enable DM designers to make that decision, however, it would now be =
implied. I guess the question here is whether or not that is good =
enough? &nbsp;Or, do we want a specific requirement around =
it?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#548235;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#548235;mso-style-te=
xtfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>[JLS] It is not clear to me that we would =
continue to allow for a DM to be done in pieces or not if this was =
removed.&nbsp; We have stated explicitly that the IM cannot be done by =
sub-modules (something I personally believe to be wrong).&nbsp; By =
default I would expect that people would believe that DMs would need to =
keep this as well without explicit language.</span><span =
style=3D'color:#548235;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#548235;mso-style-te=
xtfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>(2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Modify DM-002 to remove the part about =
&#8220;reflecting the structure of the IM&#8221; and keep it focused on =
the DM being able to be a single or multiple modules. Then, add a new DM =
requirement around maintaining the relationships between the information =
model elements in the data model elements. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#548235;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#548235;mso-style-te=
xtfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>[JLS] This makes me a bit worried.&nbsp; What =
in the structure of the IM would you not want to reflect into the =
IM?&nbsp; For me the structure of the IM is the relationships between =
the different elements of the IM.&nbsp; I really do want the DM to =
reflect that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Do either of these seem =
to help?&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Do others, who have not =
weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<br><br>Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Jim =
Schaad [<a =
href=3D"mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com">mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com</a>]=
 <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Haynes, =
Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Just my =
$0.02<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> sacm =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 =
10:54 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
[sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F4E79'>I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the =
SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had some =
questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F4E79'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>In Section 2 of the Requirements, it =
says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Multiple data models, =
protocols, and transports may be employed in a SACM =
environment&#8230;&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Then DM-001 says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:45.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>&#8220;DM-001&nbsp; Element Association: The data model MUST contain a =
data model element for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP =
address, asset).&nbsp; In other words, for every item in the information =
model, there must be an item in the data model.&nbsp; The data model can =
also include elements that do not exist in the information =
model.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by =
saying that every DM must contain an element for each IM element? =
&nbsp;That is, each DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible =
for a DM to just support a portion of the =
IM.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'>[JL=
S] I see no conflict here.&nbsp; What the first statement says is that a =
SACM environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B from different =
companies as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one that we are =
defining.&nbsp; Each of those data models needs to be complete relative =
to the single SACM IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B or =
SACM) my application uses it will be able to get all of the elements in =
the IM as part of a query.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Also, DM-002 says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>&#8220;DM-002&nbsp; Data Model Structure: The data model can be =
structured either as one single module or separated into modules and =
sub-modules that allow for references between them.&nbsp; The data model =
structure MAY reflect structure in the information model, but does not =
need to. For example, the data model might use one module to define =
endpoints, and that module might reference other modules that describe =
the various assets associated with the endpoint. Constraints and =
interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate ambiguity in =
the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate =
networks).&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in =
the IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if =
they so choose?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'>[JL=
S] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.&nbsp; If you are =
looking at an XML schema as being the data model for Company X, it could =
publish a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas for =
different pieces (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included =
in the top level schema.&nbsp; There is still are requirement that the =
entirety of the schema be complete, but it allows for the user schema to =
be updated to include additional elements that are Company X specific =
without having to update the entire schema at the same time.&nbsp; It =
would also allow for both of the sub-schemas for users to be supported =
at the same time if desired.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'>Jim=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79'=
>Thanks,<br><br>Danny<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sacm/KQryRMAcoirVxk_wK5Rj3RJXfWs>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements
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Hi Jim,

More comments inline.

Thanks,

Danny

From: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 6:32 PM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>; sacm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements



From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:57 AM
To: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com<mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com>>; sac=
m@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

Thanks for the feedback Ira and Jim.  Based on your $0.04 :), I see a coupl=
e of approaches that may help things.
[JLS] I am not sure that there is any need to change the requirements unles=
s you believe that the IM/DM which are being proposed as the SACM versions =
is going to violate the current set of requirements.  Are you just having p=
roblems understanding what they are saying or do you believe that there is =
a violation involved?

[danny] I think it is probably more related to my confusion. My original co=
nfusion was around the way I interpreted the requirements and whether or no=
t we could leverage multiple DMs (e.g. SWID for software, OVAL for configur=
ation, something else for hardware, etc.) to satisfy the SACM IM. Also, whe=
ther or not that text in Section 2 conflicted with DM-001.


(1)    We could completely overhaul DM-002 such that it simply states how t=
he relationships between information model elements MUST be maintained in t=
he data model. By removing the text around the DM potentially being a singl=
e or multiple modules, I think we would still enable DM designers to make t=
hat decision, however, it would now be implied. I guess the question here i=
s whether or not that is good enough?  Or, do we want a specific requiremen=
t around it?
[JLS] It is not clear to me that we would continue to allow for a DM to be =
done in pieces or not if this was removed.  We have stated explicitly that =
the IM cannot be done by sub-modules (something I personally believe to be =
wrong).  By default I would expect that people would believe that DMs would=
 need to keep this as well without explicit language.



[danny] Agreed, which is why I was unsure if we needed the explicit require=
ment or not.  In the requirements, it also says: "IM-006 Singularity and Mo=
dularity: The SACM information model MUST be singular (i.e. there is only o=
ne information model, not multiple alternative information models from whic=
h to choose) and MAY be modular (a conjunction of several sub-components) f=
or ease of maintenance and extension.  For example, endpoint identification=
 could be an independent sub-component of the information model, to simplif=
y updating of endpoint identification attributes."



Doesn't this say the IM can be made up of sub-modules :).



(2)    Modify DM-002 to remove the part about "reflecting the structure of =
the IM" and keep it focused on the DM being able to be a single or multiple=
 modules. Then, add a new DM requirement around maintaining the relationshi=
ps between the information model elements in the data model elements.

[JLS] This makes me a bit worried.  What in the structure of the IM would y=
ou not want to reflect into the IM?  For me the structure of the IM is the =
relationships between the different elements of the IM.  I really do want t=
he DM to reflect that.

[danny] Given the text of the current requirement "The data model can be st=
ructured either as one single module or separated into modules and sub-modu=
les...", I did not interpret "structure" to mean the relationships between =
the information model elements which is also adding to my confusion :).  I =
simply interpreted it as how the DM is implemented with respect to whether =
it is a single module or multiple separate modules.  With that said, I also=
 agree that we want every DM to maintain the relationships between IM eleme=
nts.

Do either of these seem to help?

Do others, who have not weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?

Thanks,

Danny


From: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>; sacm@ietf.or=
g<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

Just my $0.02

From: sacm [mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM
To: sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements

I was reviewing the DM requirements based on the SWID M&A call for adoption=
 thread and had some questions.


In Section 2 of the Requirements, it says:

                    "Multiple data models, protocols, and transports may be=
 employed in a SACM environment..."



Then DM-001 says:



"DM-001  Element Association: The data model MUST contain a data model elem=
ent for each information model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address, asset). =
 In other words, for every item in the information model, there must be an =
item in the data model.  The data model can also include elements that do n=
ot exist in the information model."



Does this requirement conflict with the text above in Section 2 by saying t=
hat every DM must contain an element for each IM element?  That is, each DM=
 must support the entire IM and it is not possible for a DM to just support=
 a portion of the IM.



[JLS] I see no conflict here.  What the first statement says is that a SACM=
 environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B from different companie=
s as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one that we are defining. =
 Each of those data models needs to be complete relative to the single SACM=
 IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B or SACM) my application us=
es it will be able to get all of the elements in the IM as part of a query.



Also, DM-002 says:

"DM-002  Data Model Structure: The data model can be structured either as o=
ne single module or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for r=
eferences between them.  The data model structure MAY reflect structure in =
the information model, but does not need to. For example, the data model mi=
ght use one module to define endpoints, and that module might reference oth=
er modules that describe the various assets associated with the endpoint. C=
onstraints and interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate a=
mbiguity in the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate netwo=
rks)."



Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support everything in the IM=
, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submodules if they so cho=
ose?



[JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.  If you are look=
ing at an XML schema as being the data model for Company X, it could publis=
h a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas for different pieces=
 (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included in the top level sch=
ema.  There is still are requirement that the entirety of the schema be com=
plete, but it allows for the user schema to be updated to include additiona=
l elements that are Company X specific without having to update the entire =
schema at the same time.  It would also allow for both of the sub-schemas f=
or users to be supported at the same time if desired.



Jim





Thanks,

Danny



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Jim, <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">More comments inline.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.c=
om] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 22, 2016 6:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;dhaynes@mitre.org&gt;; sacm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 22, 2016 10:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jim Schaad &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com">ietf@au=
gustcellars.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks for the feedbac=
k Ira and Jim.&nbsp; Based on your $0.04 :), I see a couple of approaches t=
hat may help things.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#548235">[JLS] I am not sure th=
at there is any need to change the requirements unless you believe that the=
 IM/DM which are being proposed as the SACM versions is going to violate th=
e current set of requirements.&nbsp; Are
 you just having problems understanding what they are saying or do you beli=
eve that there is a violation involved?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[danny] I think =
it is probably more related to my confusion. My original confusion was arou=
nd the way I interpreted the requirements and whether or not we could lever=
age multiple DMs (e.g. SWID for software,
 OVAL for configuration, something else for hardware, etc.) to satisfy the =
SACM IM. Also, whether or not that text in Section 2 conflicted with DM-001=
.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">(1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">We could compl=
etely overhaul DM-002 such that it simply states how the relationships betw=
een information model elements MUST be maintained in the data model. By rem=
oving the text around the DM potentially
 being a single or multiple modules, I think we would still enable DM desig=
ners to make that decision, however, it would now be implied. I guess the q=
uestion here is whether or not that is good enough? &nbsp;Or, do we want a =
specific requirement around it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#548235">[JLS] It is not clear =
to me that we would continue to allow for a DM to be done in pieces or not =
if this was removed.&nbsp; We have stated explicitly that the IM cannot be =
done by sub-modules (something I personally
 believe to be wrong).&nbsp; By default I would expect that people would be=
lieve that DMs would need to keep this as well without explicit language.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79;mso-style-=
textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-te=
xtfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">[danny] Agreed, =
which is why I was unsure if we needed the explicit requirement or not.&nbs=
p; In the requirements, it also says: &#8220;</span></span></i></b><b><i><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-a=
lpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">IM-006 Singularity and Modula=
rity: The SACM information model MUST be singular (i.e. there is only one i=
nformation model, not multiple alternative information models from which to=
 choose) and MAY be modular (a conjunction of several sub-components) for e=
ase of maintenance and extension.&nbsp; For example, endpoint identificatio=
n could be an independent sub-component of the information model, to simpli=
fy updating of endpoint identification attributes.</span></span></i></b><b>=
<i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-f=
ill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span=
></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-te=
xtfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-te=
xtfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><span style=3D"color:windowtext">Doesn&#8217;t th=
is say the IM can be made up of sub-modules :).</span></span></i></b><o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">(2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Modify DM-002 =
to remove the part about &#8220;reflecting the structure of the IM&#8221; a=
nd keep it focused on the DM being able to be a single or multiple modules.=
 Then, add a new DM requirement around maintaining
 the relationships between the information model elements in the data model=
 elements.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#548235">[JLS] This makes me a =
bit worried.&nbsp; What in the structure of the IM would you not want to re=
flect into the IM?&nbsp; For me the structure of the IM is the relationship=
s between the different elements of the IM.&nbsp; I
 really do want the DM to reflect that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[danny] Given th=
e text of the current requirement &#8220;</span><span style=3D"color:#1F4E7=
9">The data model can be structured either as one single module or separate=
d into modules and sub-modules...</span></i></b><b><i><span style=3D"color:=
#1F497D">&#8221;,
 I did not interpret &#8220;structure&#8221; to mean the relationships betw=
een the information model elements which is also adding to my confusion :).=
&nbsp; I simply interpreted it as how the DM is implemented with respect to=
 whether it is a single module or multiple separate
 modules.&nbsp; With that said, I also agree that we want every DM to maint=
ain the relationships between IM elements.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Do either of these see=
m to help?&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Do others, who have no=
t weighed in yet, have thoughts on this thread?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jim Schaad [<a href=3D"mailto:ietf@augu=
stcellars.com">mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mit=
re.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just my $0.02<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sacm [<a href=3D"mailto:sacm-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:sacm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haynes, Dan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sacm] Question about DM Requirements<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79">I was reviewing the DM=
 requirements based on the SWID M&amp;A call for adoption thread and had so=
me questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">In Section 2 of the Requ=
irements, it says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Multiple=
 data models, protocols, and transports may be employed in a SACM environme=
nt&#8230;&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Then DM-001 says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:45.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">&#8220;DM-001&nbsp; Elemen=
t Association: The data model MUST contain a data model element for each in=
formation model element (e.g. endpoint, IP address, asset).&nbsp; In other =
words, for every item in the information model, there must be an item in th=
e data model.&nbsp; The data model can also include elements that do not ex=
ist in the information model.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Does this requirement conflict with the text above in S=
ection 2 by saying that every DM must contain an element for each IM elemen=
t? &nbsp;That is, each DM must support the entire IM and it is not possible=
 for a DM to just support a portion of the IM.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">[JLS] I see no conflict here.&nbsp; What the first statemen=
t says is that a SACM environment can have Data Model A and Data Model B fr=
om different companies as well as Data Model SACM which is the common one t=
hat we are defining.&nbsp; Each of those data models needs to be complete r=
elative to the single SACM IM so that it does not matter which DM (of A, B =
or SACM) my application uses it will be able to get all of the elements in =
the IM as part of a query.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">Also, DM-002 says:<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F4E79">&#8220;DM-002&nbsp; Data Mod=
el Structure: The data model can be structured either as one single module =
or separated into modules and sub-modules that allow for references between=
 them.&nbsp; The data model structure MAY reflect structure in the informat=
ion model, but does not need to. For example, the data model might use one =
module to define endpoints, and that module might reference other modules t=
hat describe the various assets associated with the endpoint. Constraints a=
nd interfaces might further be defined to resolve or tolerate ambiguity in =
the references (e.g. same IP address used in two separate networks).&#8221;=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Is this effectively reiterating that a DM must support =
everything in the IM, but, that the DM can choose to break it up into submo=
dules if they so choose?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">[JLS] Yes this was the intent that I understood from this.&=
nbsp; If you are looking at an XML schema as being the data model for Compa=
ny X, it could publish a top level schema which then allows for sub schemas=
 for different pieces (i.e. end-points, software, users) which are included=
 in the top level schema.&nbsp; There is still are requirement that the ent=
irety of the schema be complete, but it allows for the user schema to be up=
dated to include additional elements that are Company X specific without ha=
ving to update the entire schema at the same time.&nbsp; It would also allo=
w for both of the sub-schemas for users to be supported at the same time if=
 desired.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:red"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F4E79">Thanks,<br><br>Danny<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 15:01:22 +0300
Message-ID: <CAA=AuEdTiBChe8o0YddUsmMHZ1Ne8t8sSTnhvZ9O0YTJi7vnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
To: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
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Cc: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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Sounds good for me
Thank you for your engagement

On Friday, 24 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> I just reviewed the latest version of the I-D and found only one
> occurrence of =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D in Appendix I.3 which says=
:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handl=
ed by the
> Evaluator component.  If pre-assessment data is used, this would be store=
d
> on and obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I think this could easily be re-written to remove =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=
=E2=80=9D and say:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handl=
ed by the
> Evaluator component. If previously collected data is used, it would be
> obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I think we could also rewrite the latest revision of the text (from my
> Jun 16th message) to read as follows (which also makes use of SACM tasks
> which was suggested at the last virtual interim meeting).
>
>
>
> "The collection of additional endpoint information for the purpose of
> vulnerability assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the
> vulnerability assessment capability.  Over time, some new pieces of
> information that are needed during common types of assessments might be
> identified. An endpoint management capability can be reconfigured to have
> this information delivered automatically. This avoids the need to trigger
> additional Collection Tasks to gather this information during assessments=
,
> streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it might be observed that
> certain information delivered by an endpoint management capability is
> rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to re-configure the endpoin=
t
> management capability to no longer collect this information to reduce
> network and processing overhead. Instead, a new Collection Task can be
> triggered to gather this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>
> Let me know what you think of these changes.  If they seem reasonable, I
> can integrate them into the next revision of the I-D and we can close out
> this issue.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','adam.w.montville@gmail.com');>]
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2016 1:36 PM
> *To:* Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','blueroofmusic@gmail.com');>>
> *Cc:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>>; Jerome Athias <
> athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','athiasjerome@gmail.com');>>; sacm@ietf.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sacm@ietf.org');>
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
>
>
> My concern does not stem from using the prefix =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, as =
much as it is
> about the definition of the term assessment and how we=E2=80=99re using
> pre-assessment often, which turns into =E2=80=9Ccollecting before the pro=
cess of
> collecting=E2=80=9D, which is confusing at best.
>
>
>
> The situation we are looking at feels very much like a cache miss.  We
> look for some information in one place and don=E2=80=99t find it, so we h=
ave to go
> fetch it from somewhere else.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','blueroofmusic@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I share Adam's distaste for "pre-" anything.
>
> Perhaps "external collection" - defined as simply using any non-SACM
> protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this case,
> e.g., a NEA Server)?
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','blueroofmusic@gmail.com');>
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville <
> adam.w.montville@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','adam.w.montville@gmail.com');>>
> wrote:
>
>
> I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, but are we fo=
rgetting
> our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?  We borrow, and expand up=
on, the term from
> RFC5209.  Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:
>
> Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting po=
sture for
> a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such tha=
t
> the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against compliance
> policy.=E2=80=9D  Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to support =
other uses
> of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, vulnerability
> detection, license management).  The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabilities =
on the
> endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the endpoi=
nt.
>
> But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about collectio=
n
> in the context of *pre*-assessment.  So, a collection before =E2=80=9Cthe=
 process
> of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.
>
> Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?  Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=
=80=9D anything?
> There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.  If
> there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed duri=
ng
> the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s som=
ething we
> need to grab all the time, or just this once.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>> wrote:
>
> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I was
> hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, howe=
ver, I ran
> out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it
> seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the
> same thing.
>
> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted on
> 6/8/16 [1]).
>
> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=E2=
=80=A6Over
> time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types =
of
> assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be
> reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This avoid=
s
> the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this information
> during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it mig=
ht
> be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment
> collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop
> pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and
> processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to gath=
er
> this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>
> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21
> st.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt
>
>
>
> *From:* Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','athiasjerome@gmail.com');>
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','athiasjerome@gmail.com');>>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sacm@ietf.org');>
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
> This rewrite is imho better
> Thanks
>
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>> wrote:
>
> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help
> clarify things?
>
> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment
> scenarios, as
> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection
> data over
> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional
> detection
> information that it was previously not collecting and push that
> information to the
> vulnerability management capability where it can support future
> assessments. The
> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,
> change
> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>
> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability
> management capability and the endpoint management capability, as written,=
 I
> think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.
> I think the point is just that you could do something like this to improv=
e
> the vulnerability assessment.
>
> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be to
> just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would preclu=
de
> an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','athiasjerome@gmail.com');>]
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sacm@ietf.org');>
> Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
>
> #5
>
> - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
> While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that
>
> "the
>
> information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
> information":
> I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would have
> to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
> capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with
> 'unknown' additional information)
>
> So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
>
> something
>
> like "the updated information"
>
>
>
> 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dhaynes@mitre.org');>>:
>
> During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various =
open
> issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a
> result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
> here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here [4].
>
>
>
> One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we ran =
out
> of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the
> ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability
> assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
> following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>
> (specifically the
>
> last sentence).
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine an
> endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
>
> collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
>
> endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository and
> a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
>
> an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to
> enable operators to perform targeted collection under
>
> certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
> provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
>
> may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection of
> endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
>
> assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerability
> assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
>
> scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
>
> management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
> capability by the endpoint whenever that information
>
> changes.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
> endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
> capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know
> what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it
> (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
> situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional
> information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting it?
>
>
>
> If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May
>
> 31st.
>
> We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June
>
> 8th.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
>
> [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
>
> [3] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
>
> [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/
> (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they
> should be
> soon)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sacm@ietf.org');>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sacm@ietf.org');>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sacm@ietf.org');>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>

--001a11457312eb348e053604ed77
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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Sounds good for me<div>Thank you for your engagement=C2=A0<span></span><br>=
<br>On Friday, 24 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitr=
e.org">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I just reviewed the latest version of=
 the I-D and found only one occurrence of =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D =
in Appendix I.3 which says:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">=E2=80=9CW=
ithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handled by the Ev=
aluator component.=C2=A0 If pre-assessment data is used, this
 would be stored on and obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think this could easily be re-writt=
en to remove =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D and say:<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=E2=80=9CW=
ithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handled by the Ev=
aluator component. If previously collected data is used,
 it would be obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think we could also rewrite the lat=
est revision of the text
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f4e79">(from my Jun 16<sup>th</sup> message)
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">to read as follows (which also makes use of SACM task=
s which was suggested at the last virtual interim meeting).<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margi=
n-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#1f4e79">&quot;The collection of additional endpoint information for =
the purpose of vulnerability assessment does not necessarily need to be a p=
ull by the vulnerability assessment capability.=C2=A0
 Over time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common ty=
pes of assessments might be identified. An endpoint management capability c=
an be reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This a=
voids the need to trigger additional
 Collection Tasks to gather this information during assessments, streamlini=
ng the assessment process. Likewise, it might be observed that certain info=
rmation delivered by an endpoint management capability is rarely used. In t=
his case, it might be useful to
 re-configure the endpoint management capability to no longer collect this =
information to reduce network and processing overhead. Instead, a new Colle=
ction Task can be triggered to gather this data on the rare occasions when =
it is needed.&quot;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Let me know what you think of these c=
hanges.=C2=A0 If they seem reasonable, I can integrate them into the next r=
evision of the I-D and we can close out this issue.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Adam Montville [mailto:<a href=
=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;adam.w.montville@gmail.com&#39=
;);" target=3D"_blank">adam.w.montville@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 18, 2016 1:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,=
&#39;blueroofmusic@gmail.com&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&=
#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;; =
Jerome Athias &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;athia=
sjerome@gmail.com&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>&gt;;=
 <a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;sacm@ietf.org&#39;);" =
target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Is=
sue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My concern does not stem from using the prefix =E2=
=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, as much as it is about the definition of the term asses=
sment and how we=E2=80=99re using pre-assessment often, which turns into =
=E2=80=9Ccollecting before the process of collecting=E2=80=9D, which is con=
fusing
 at best.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The situation we are looking at feels very much like=
 a cache miss.=C2=A0 We look for some information in one place and don=E2=
=80=99t find it, so we have to go fetch it from somewhere else.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira McDonald &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;blueroofmusic@gmail.com&#39;)=
;" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">Hi,<br>
<br>
I share Adam&#39;s distaste for &quot;pre-&quot; anything.<br>
<br>
Perhaps &quot;external collection&quot; - defined as simply using any non-S=
ACM<br>
protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this case,<br>
e.g., a NEA Server)?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
<br>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br>
</span><a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-=
serif">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><span style=3D"=
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-s=
erif">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
mailto:<span>=C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&=
#39;,&#39;blueroofmusic@gmail.com&#39;);" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"=
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">blueroofmusic=
@gmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helve=
tica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
Winter =C2=A0579 Park Place =C2=A0Saline, MI =C2=A048176 =C2=A0734-944-0094=
<br>
Summer =C2=A0PO Box 221 =C2=A0Grand Marais, MI 49839 =C2=A0906-494-2434<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville &lt;</span><a href=3D"javas=
cript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;adam.w.montville@gmail.com&#39;);" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">adam.w.montville@gmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
wrote:<br>
<br style=3D"text-align:start;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring=
 this up, but are we forgetting<br>
our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0 We borrow, and expand=
 upon, the term from<br>
RFC5209.=C2=A0 Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:<br>
<br>
Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting post=
ure for<br>
a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such that<=
br>
the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against compliance<br>
policy.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to suppo=
rt other uses<br>
of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, vulnerability<br=
>
detection, license management).=C2=A0 The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabiliti=
es on the<br>
endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the endpoint=
.<br>
<br>
But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about collection<=
br>
in the context of *pre*-assessment.=C2=A0 So, a collection before =E2=80=9C=
the process<br>
of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.<br>
<br>
Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?=C2=A0 Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=
=E2=80=9D anything?<br>
There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.=C2=A0 If=
<br>
there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed during=
<br>
the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s somet=
hing we<br>
need to grab all the time, or just this once.<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Adam<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%=
7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@=
mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.=C2=A0 I =
was<br>
hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, howeve=
r, I ran<br>
out of time.=C2=A0 As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as=
 it<br>
seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the<br>
same thing.<br>
<br>
The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted on<br=
>
6/8/16 [1]).<br>
<br>
&quot;Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=
=E2=80=A6Over<br>
time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types of=
<br>
assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be<br>
reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This avoids<=
br>
the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this information<br=
>
during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it might=
<br>
be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment<br>
collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop<br>
pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and<br>
processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to gather=
<br>
this data on the rare occasions when it is needed.&quot;<br>
<br>
Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21<b=
r>
st.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
[1] <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-0=
0.txt</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
*From:* Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;=
athiasjerome@gmail.com&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.=
com</a><br>
&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;athiasjerome@gmail.=
com&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>&gt;]<br>
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM<br>
*To:* Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;d=
haynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>
*Cc:* <a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;sacm@ietf.org&#39=
;);" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
*Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue<b=
r>
#5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br>
<br>
This rewrite is imho better<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#=
39;cvml&#39;,&#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre=
.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help<br=
>
clarify things?<br>
<br>
&quot;In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment<br=
>
scenarios, as<br>
the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection<b=
r>
data over<br>
time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional<br>
detection<br>
information that it was previously not collecting and push that<br>
information to the<br>
vulnerability management capability where it can support future<br>
assessments. The<br>
pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,<br>
change<br>
in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.).&quot;<br=
>
<br>
While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability<br>
management capability and the endpoint management capability, as written, I=
<br>
think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.<b=
r>
I think the point is just that you could do something like this to improve<=
br>
the vulnerability assessment.<br>
<br>
If we still don&#39;t have consensus on this, another approach might be to<=
br>
just remove this text all together as I don&#39;t think doing so would prec=
lude<br>
an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.<br=
>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;at=
hiasjerome@gmail.com&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.co=
m</a>]<br>
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br>
To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;dha=
ynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;sacm@ietf.org&#39;)=
;" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">#5<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">- Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Cap=
ability<br>
<br>
While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">&quot;the<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">information beyond that&quot; would be &quot;suppl=
emental endpoint<br>
information&quot;:<br>
I don&#39;t see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would ha=
ve<br>
to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment<br>
capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with<br>
&#39;unknown&#39; additional information)<br>
<br>
So I think the issue is to change &quot;the information beyond that&quot; t=
o<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">something<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">like &quot;the updated information&quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,=
&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;dhaynes@mitre.org&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mit=
re.org</a>&gt;:<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting=
, we discussed various open<br>
issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a<br>
result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see<br>
here [2][3].=C2=A0 The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here [=
4].<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we ran ou=
t<br>
of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the<br>
ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability<br>
assessment capability.=C2=A0 This question came out of a review of the<br>
following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">(specifically the<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">last sentence).<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
=E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine an<br>
endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously<br>
<br>
collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a<br>
Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary<br>
<br>
endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository and<br>
a targeted collection will be necessary.=C2=A0 Of course,<br>
<br>
an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to<br>
enable operators to perform targeted collection under<br>
<br>
certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be<br>
provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there<br>
<br>
may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection of<br>
endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<br>
<br>
assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerability<br>
assessment capability.=C2=A0 Under certain deployment<br>
<br>
scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the<br>
information beyond that which is available in the endpoint<br>
<br>
management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment<br>
capability by the endpoint whenever that information<br>
<br>
changes.=E2=80=9D<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the<br>
endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment<br>
capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know<br>
what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it<br>
(in which case it is probably considered a pull)?=C2=A0 Is there a<br>
situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional<br>
information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting it?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">31st.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">We are planning to have an updated version of the =
scenario for June<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">8th.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scen=
ario/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm=
-vuln-scenario/</a><br>
<br>
[2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><=
br>
<br>
[3] <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.=
html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/=
msg03958.html</a><br>
<br>
[4] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-=
1/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-=
sacm-3-1/</a><br>
(looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they<br>
should be<br>
soon)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;sacm@ietf.org&#39;);" t=
arget=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;sacm@ietf.org&#39;);" t=
arget=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;sacm@ietf.org&#39;);" t=
arget=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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From: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:43:07 -0400
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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Hi Danny,

+1

Cheers,
- Ira


Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434


On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:19 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:

> I just reviewed the latest version of the I-D and found only one
> occurrence of =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D in Appendix I.3 which says=
:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handl=
ed by the
> Evaluator component.  If pre-assessment data is used, this would be store=
d
> on and obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I think this could easily be re-written to remove =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=
=E2=80=9D and say:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handl=
ed by the
> Evaluator component. If previously collected data is used, it would be
> obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I think we could also rewrite the latest revision of the text (from my
> Jun 16th message) to read as follows (which also makes use of SACM tasks
> which was suggested at the last virtual interim meeting).
>
>
>
> "The collection of additional endpoint information for the purpose of
> vulnerability assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the
> vulnerability assessment capability.  Over time, some new pieces of
> information that are needed during common types of assessments might be
> identified. An endpoint management capability can be reconfigured to have
> this information delivered automatically. This avoids the need to trigger
> additional Collection Tasks to gather this information during assessments=
,
> streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it might be observed that
> certain information delivered by an endpoint management capability is
> rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to re-configure the endpoin=
t
> management capability to no longer collect this information to reduce
> network and processing overhead. Instead, a new Collection Task can be
> triggered to gather this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>
> Let me know what you think of these changes.  If they seem reasonable, I
> can integrate them into the next revision of the I-D and we can close out
> this issue.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2016 1:36 PM
> *To:* Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>; Jerome Athias <
> athiasjerome@gmail.com>; sacm@ietf.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
>
>
> My concern does not stem from using the prefix =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, as =
much as it is
> about the definition of the term assessment and how we=E2=80=99re using
> pre-assessment often, which turns into =E2=80=9Ccollecting before the pro=
cess of
> collecting=E2=80=9D, which is confusing at best.
>
>
>
> The situation we are looking at feels very much like a cache miss.  We
> look for some information in one place and don=E2=80=99t find it, so we h=
ave to go
> fetch it from somewhere else.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I share Adam's distaste for "pre-" anything.
>
> Perhaps "external collection" - defined as simply using any non-SACM
> protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this case,
> e.g., a NEA Server)?
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville <
> adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, but are we fo=
rgetting
> our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?  We borrow, and expand up=
on, the term from
> RFC5209.  Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:
>
> Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting po=
sture for
> a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such tha=
t
> the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against compliance
> policy.=E2=80=9D  Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to support =
other uses
> of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, vulnerability
> detection, license management).  The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabilities =
on the
> endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the endpoi=
nt.
>
> But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about collectio=
n
> in the context of *pre*-assessment.  So, a collection before =E2=80=9Cthe=
 process
> of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.
>
> Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?  Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=
=80=9D anything?
> There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.  If
> there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed duri=
ng
> the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s som=
ething we
> need to grab all the time, or just this once.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>
> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I was
> hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, howe=
ver, I ran
> out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as it
> seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the
> same thing.
>
> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted on
> 6/8/16 [1]).
>
> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=E2=
=80=A6Over
> time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types =
of
> assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be
> reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This avoid=
s
> the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this information
> during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it mig=
ht
> be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment
> collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop
> pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and
> processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to gath=
er
> this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>
> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21
> st.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt
>
>
>
> *From:* Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
> This rewrite is imho better
> Thanks
>
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>
> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help
> clarify things?
>
> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment
> scenarios, as
> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection
> data over
> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional
> detection
> information that it was previously not collecting and push that
> information to the
> vulnerability management capability where it can support future
> assessments. The
> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,
> change
> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>
> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability
> management capability and the endpoint management capability, as written,=
 I
> think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.
> I think the point is just that you could do something like this to improv=
e
> the vulnerability assessment.
>
> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be to
> just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would preclu=
de
> an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue
>
> #5
>
> - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>
> While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that
>
> "the
>
> information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
> information":
> I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would have
> to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
> capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with
> 'unknown' additional information)
>
> So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
>
> something
>
> like "the updated information"
>
>
>
> 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>:
>
> During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed various =
open
> issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a
> result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
> here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here [4].
>
>
>
> One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we ran =
out
> of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the
> ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability
> assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
> following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>
> (specifically the
>
> last sentence).
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine an
> endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
>
> collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
>
> endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository and
> a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
>
> an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to
> enable operators to perform targeted collection under
>
> certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
> provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
>
> may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection of
> endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
>
> assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerability
> assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
>
> scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
>
> management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
> capability by the endpoint whenever that information
>
> changes.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
> endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
> capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know
> what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it
> (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
> situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional
> information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting it?
>
>
>
> If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May
>
> 31st.
>
> We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June
>
> 8th.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/
>
> [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3
>
> [3] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html
>
> [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/
> (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they
> should be
> soon)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Hi Danny,<br><br>+1<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></di=
v>- Ira<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted =
Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secre=
tary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet=
 Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>=
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" href=
=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank">http://si=
tes.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:bluero=
ofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter=
=C2=A0 579 Park Place=C2=A0 Saline, MI=C2=A0 48176=C2=A0 734-944-0094<br>Su=
mmer=C2=A0 PO Box 221=C2=A0 Grand Marais, MI 49839=C2=A0 906-494-2434<br><b=
r><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><=
div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></=
div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:19 AM, Haynes, Dan=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I just reviewed the latest version of=
 the I-D and found only one occurrence of =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D =
in Appendix I.3 which says:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">=E2=80=9CW=
ithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handled by the Ev=
aluator component.=C2=A0 If pre-assessment data is used, this
 would be stored on and obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think this could easily be re-writt=
en to remove =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D and say:<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=E2=80=9CW=
ithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be handled by the Ev=
aluator component. If previously collected data is used,
 it would be obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think we could also rewrite the lat=
est revision of the text
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f4e79">(from my Jun 16<sup>th</sup> message)
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#1f497d">to read as follows (which also makes use of SACM task=
s which was suggested at the last virtual interim meeting).<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margi=
n-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#1f4e79">&quot;The collection of additional endpoint information for =
the purpose of vulnerability assessment does not necessarily need to be a p=
ull by the vulnerability assessment capability.=C2=A0
 Over time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common ty=
pes of assessments might be identified. An endpoint management capability c=
an be reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This a=
voids the need to trigger additional
 Collection Tasks to gather this information during assessments, streamlini=
ng the assessment process. Likewise, it might be observed that certain info=
rmation delivered by an endpoint management capability is rarely used. In t=
his case, it might be useful to
 re-configure the endpoint management capability to no longer collect this =
information to reduce network and processing overhead. Instead, a new Colle=
ction Task can be triggered to gather this data on the rare occasions when =
it is needed.&quot;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Let me know what you think of these c=
hanges.=C2=A0 If they seem reasonable, I can integrate them into the next r=
evision of the I-D and we can close out this issue.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Adam Montville [mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">adam.w.montville@g=
mail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 18, 2016 1:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_=
blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;; Jerome Athias &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:athia=
sjerome@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a></span></p><d=
iv><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Is=
sue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<u></u><u><=
/u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My concern does not stem from using the prefix =E2=
=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, as much as it is about the definition of the term asses=
sment and how we=E2=80=99re using pre-assessment often, which turns into =
=E2=80=9Ccollecting before the process of collecting=E2=80=9D, which is con=
fusing
 at best.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The situation we are looking at feels very much like=
 a cache miss.=C2=A0 We look for some information in one place and don=E2=
=80=99t find it, so we have to go fetch it from somewhere else.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira McDonald &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">Hi,<br>
<br>
I share Adam&#39;s distaste for &quot;pre-&quot; anything.<br>
<br>
Perhaps &quot;external collection&quot; - defined as simply using any non-S=
ACM<br>
protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this case,<br>
e.g., a NEA Server)?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
<br>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br>
</span><a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-=
serif">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><span style=3D"=
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-s=
erif">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
mailto:<span>=C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helveti=
ca&quot;,sans-serif">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-=
size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
Winter =C2=A0579 Park Place =C2=A0Saline, MI =C2=A048176 =C2=A0<a href=3D"t=
el:734-944-0094" value=3D"+17349440094" target=3D"_blank">734-944-0094</a><=
br>
Summer =C2=A0PO Box 221 =C2=A0Grand Marais, MI 49839 =C2=A0<a href=3D"tel:9=
06-494-2434" value=3D"+19064942434" target=3D"_blank">906-494-2434</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailt=
o:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">adam.w.montville@gmail.co=
m</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot=
;,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
wrote:<br>
<br style=3D"text-align:start;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring=
 this up, but are we forgetting<br>
our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0 We borrow, and expand=
 upon, the term from<br>
RFC5209.=C2=A0 Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:<br>
<br>
Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting post=
ure for<br>
a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such that<=
br>
the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against compliance<br>
policy.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to suppo=
rt other uses<br>
of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, vulnerability<br=
>
detection, license management).=C2=A0 The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of capabiliti=
es on the<br>
endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the endpoint=
.<br>
<br>
But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about collection<=
br>
in the context of *pre*-assessment.=C2=A0 So, a collection before =E2=80=9C=
the process<br>
of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.<br>
<br>
Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?=C2=A0 Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=
=E2=80=9D anything?<br>
There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.=C2=A0 If=
<br>
there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed during=
<br>
the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s somet=
hing we<br>
need to grab all the time, or just this once.<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Adam<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mit=
re.org" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.=C2=A0 I =
was<br>
hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, howeve=
r, I ran<br>
out of time.=C2=A0 As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as=
 it<br>
seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says the<br>
same thing.<br>
<br>
The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted on<br=
>
6/8/16 [1]).<br>
<br>
&quot;Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes of=
=E2=80=A6Over<br>
time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types of=
<br>
assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be<br>
reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This avoids<=
br>
the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this information<br=
>
during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it might=
<br>
be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment<br>
collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop<br>
pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and<br>
processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to gather=
<br>
this data on the rare occasions when it is needed.&quot;<br>
<br>
Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July 21<b=
r>
st.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
[1] <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-0=
0.txt</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
*From:* Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a><br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">athiasjerom=
e@gmail.com</a>&gt;]<br>
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM<br>
*To:* Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank=
">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>
*Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><=
br>
*Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue<b=
r>
#5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br>
<br>
This rewrite is imho better<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph help<br=
>
clarify things?<br>
<br>
&quot;In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment<br=
>
scenarios, as<br>
the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability detection<b=
r>
data over<br>
time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional<br>
detection<br>
information that it was previously not collecting and push that<br>
information to the<br>
vulnerability management capability where it can support future<br>
assessments. The<br>
pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,<br>
change<br>
in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.).&quot;<br=
>
<br>
While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability<br>
management capability and the endpoint management capability, as written, I=
<br>
think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to decide.<b=
r>
I think the point is just that you could do something like this to improve<=
br>
the vulnerability assessment.<br>
<br>
If we still don&#39;t have consensus on this, another approach might be to<=
br>
just remove this text all together as I don&#39;t think doing so would prec=
lude<br>
an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their product.<br=
>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br>
To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank">=
dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br=
>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">#5<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">- Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Cap=
ability<br>
<br>
While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">&quot;the<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">information beyond that&quot; would be &quot;suppl=
emental endpoint<br>
information&quot;:<br>
I don&#39;t see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would ha=
ve<br>
to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment<br>
capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with<br>
&#39;unknown&#39; additional information)<br>
<br>
So I think the issue is to change &quot;the information beyond that&quot; t=
o<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">something<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">like &quot;the updated information&quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.=
org" target=3D"_blank">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;:<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting=
, we discussed various open<br>
issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a<br>
result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see<br>
here [2][3].=C2=A0 The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here [=
4].<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we ran ou=
t<br>
of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the<br>
ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability<br>
assessment capability.=C2=A0 This question came out of a review of the<br>
following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">(specifically the<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">last sentence).<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
=E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine an<br>
endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously<br>
<br>
collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a<br>
Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary<br>
<br>
endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository and<br>
a targeted collection will be necessary.=C2=A0 Of course,<br>
<br>
an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to<br>
enable operators to perform targeted collection under<br>
<br>
certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be<br>
provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there<br>
<br>
may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection of<br>
endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<br>
<br>
assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerability<br>
assessment capability.=C2=A0 Under certain deployment<br>
<br>
scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the<br>
information beyond that which is available in the endpoint<br>
<br>
management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment<br>
capability by the endpoint whenever that information<br>
<br>
changes.=E2=80=9D<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the<br>
endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment<br>
capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know<br>
what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it<br>
(in which case it is probably considered a pull)?=C2=A0 Is there a<br>
situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional<br>
information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting it?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">31st.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">We are planning to have an updated version of the =
scenario for June<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif">8th.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scen=
ario/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm=
-vuln-scenario/</a><br>
<br>
[2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><=
br>
<br>
[3] <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.=
html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/=
msg03958.html</a><br>
<br>
[4] <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-=
1/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-=
sacm-3-1/</a><br>
(looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they<br>
should be<br>
soon)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sacm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #18 - Review Appendices and Include References
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Subject: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #18 - Review Appendices and Include References
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We have a tracker that recommends reviewing the appendices and adding the a=
ppropriate references to them throughout the body of the I-D [1].  Right no=
w, the majority of the appendices are not referenced in the body of the I-D=
.

I went through the body of the I-D and took a pass at referencing appendice=
s where I thought it made sense with the exception of "Appendix A - Change =
Log".  I will move that to a section between "Security Considerations" and =
"References".  Also, please note that I did not update the appendices so th=
ey appear in the order in which they are referenced.  I will do that in the=
 I-D once we agree on the changes that we want to make.

Anyways, please review the attached changes and let me know if they seem re=
asonable to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnerability Assessm=
ent Scenario I-D.  Also, please let me know if you have suggestions for bet=
ter places to make the references or if you feel strongly that a particular=
 appendix is no longer needed.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/18


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have a tracker that recommends reviewing the appe=
ndices and adding the appropriate references to them throughout the body of=
 the I-D [1].&nbsp; Right now, the majority of the appendices are not refer=
enced in the body of the I-D.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I went through the body of the I-D and took a pass a=
t referencing appendices where I thought it made sense with the exception o=
f &#8220;Appendix A - Change Log&#8221;. &nbsp;I will move that to a sectio=
n between &#8220;Security Considerations&#8221; and &#8220;References&#8221=
;.
 &nbsp;Also, please note that I did not update the appendices so they appea=
r in the order in which they are referenced.&nbsp; I will do that in the I-=
D once we agree on the changes that we want to make.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyways, please review the attached changes and let =
me know if they seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of th=
e Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.&nbsp; Also, please let me know if =
you have suggestions for better places
 to make the references or if you feel strongly that a particular appendix =
is no longer needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Danny<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerabili=
ty-scenario/issues/18">
https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/18</a><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From nobody Fri Jun 24 09:05:52 2016
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From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" <agenda@ietf.org>
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Cc: Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, sacm@ietf.org
Subject: [sacm] sacm - Requested sessions have been scheduled for IETF 96
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Dear Karen O&#39;Donoghue,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 

sacm Session 1 (2:30:00)
    Monday, Morning Session I 1000-1230
    Room Name: Charlottenburg II/III size: 175
    ---------------------------------------------
    sacm Session 2 (2:00:00)
    Friday, Morning Session I 1000-1200
    Room Name: Schoeneberg size: 100
    ---------------------------------------------
    


Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring
Area Name: Security Area
Session Requester: Karen O&#39;Donoghue

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  2.5 Hours, 2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: acme anima cfrg core cose dots i2nsf ipsecme jose mile ntp saag tictoc trans
 Second Priority: radext ace netmod curdle tls oauth



Special Requests:
  We&#39;d ideally like to meet on Monday/Tues and Thurs/Friday.
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Mon Jun 27 10:19:41 2016
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Thread-Topic: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #25 - Alignment with SACM Tasks
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Out of the last virtual interim meeting, it was suggested that we better al=
ign the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D with the SACM Tasks defined i=
n the Terminology I-D [1].  As a result, we added tracker #25 to Vulnerabil=
ity-Scenario repository on GitHub  [2].

Attached is a first pass at the updates to the Vulnerability Assessment Sce=
nario I-D that incorporates SACM Tasks.  Please review the attached changes=
 and let me know if they seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revis=
ion of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.  Also, please let me know=
 if there is anything I missed or if anything needs further clarification.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology-09.txt
[2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Out of the last virtual interim meeting, it was sugg=
ested that we better align the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D with t=
he SACM Tasks defined in the Terminology I-D [1]. &nbsp;As a result, we add=
ed tracker #25 to Vulnerability-Scenario
 repository on GitHub &nbsp;[2].<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Attached is a first pass at the updates to the Vulne=
rability Assessment Scenario I-D that incorporates SACM Tasks. &nbsp;Please=
 review the attached changes and let me know if they seem reasonable to inc=
orporate into the next revision of the
 Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.&nbsp; Also, please let me know if t=
here is anything I missed or if anything needs further clarification.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Danny<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminol=
ogy-09.txt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario=
/issues/25<o:p></o:p></p>
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I believe that the more specific details for this would be captured in the IM.

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<p>I believe that the more specific details for this would be captured in the IM.</p>

<p style="font-size:small;-webkit-text-size-adjust:none;color:#666;">&mdash;<br />You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.<br />Reply to this email directly, <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/21#issuecomment-228815297">view it on GitHub</a>, or <a href="https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe/AKbE0R8IP9OYmFSVTxqrwwLzSeLMDqDCks5qQAhmgaJpZM4Iy804">mute the thread</a>.<img alt="" height="1" src="https://github.com/notifications/beacon/AKbE0fGFtV0fG6r7-W0E1UMCT7HlSSGDks5qQAhmgaJpZM4Iy804.gif" width="1" /></p>
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I would want this document to be sketchy about the details.  I do have some potential problems with the question of should the details be in the IM documentor the SWID document, but given that we have currently stated that the IM is going to a single IM and it will be in a single document then it needs to be in the IM document. (Not a favorite decision of mine.) 

I think that the SWID document is going to be slightly vague as well given that the final details are going to be in the IM document and that the publishing order may not be totally synchronized (especially if there are updates later).  The IM document is going to have to be the final authority.

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<p>I would want this document to be sketchy about the details.  I do have some potential problems with the question of should the details be in the IM documentor the SWID document, but given that we have currently stated that the IM is going to a single IM and it will be in a single document then it needs to be in the IM document. (Not a favorite decision of mine.) </p>

<p>I think that the SWID document is going to be slightly vague as well given that the final details are going to be in the IM document and that the publishing order may not be totally synchronized (especially if there are updates later).  The IM document is going to have to be the final authority.</p>

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Subject: [sacm] Fwd: IETF 96 Final Agenda
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FYI.

> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: IETF Agenda <agenda@ietf.org>
> Subject: IETF 96 Final Agenda
> Date: June 24, 2016 at 11:15:11 AM CDT
> To: "Working Group Chairs" <wgchairs@ietf.org>
> Reply-To: IETF Agenda <agenda@ietf.org>
>=20
> Hello Everyone!
>=20
> The final agenda is now available. At this point only Area Directors =
can submit changes in the form of a swap to agenda@ietf.org.
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.html
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.txt
>=20
> While this is considered the final agenda for printing, changes may be =
made to the agenda up until and during the meeting. Updates will be =
reflected on the web version of the agenda.
>=20
> Information regarding IETF 96 in Berlin can be found here: =
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/96/index.html
>=20
> Thank you!
>=20
> IETF Secretariat
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">FYI.<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Begin forwarded =
message:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
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</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">IETF Agenda &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agenda@ietf.org" class=3D"">agenda@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
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style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">IETF 96 Final =
Agenda</b><br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">June 24, 2016 at 11:15:11 AM =
CDT<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">"Working Group Chairs" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wgchairs@ietf.org" class=3D"">wgchairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Reply-To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">IETF Agenda &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agenda@ietf.org" class=3D"">agenda@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Hello Everyone!<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The final agenda =
is now available. At this point only Area Directors can submit changes =
in the form of a swap to <a href=3D"mailto:agenda@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">agenda@ietf.org</a>. <br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
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class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.html</a><br =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.txt<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">While this is considered the final agenda for =
printing, changes may be made to the agenda up until and during the =
meeting. Updates will be reflected on the web version of the agenda. <br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Information regarding IETF 96 in Berlin can be =
found here: http://www.ietf.org/meeting/96/index.html<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thank you!<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">IETF Secretariat<br =
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class=3D""></body></html>=

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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:31:58 -0500
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To: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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+1 (contributor)

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 7:43 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Danny,
>=20
> +1
>=20
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>=20
>=20
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic =
<http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic>
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc =
<http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc>
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com <mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:19 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org =
<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
> I just reviewed the latest version of the I-D and found only one =
occurrence of =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D in Appendix I.3 which =
says:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be =
handled by the Evaluator component.  If pre-assessment data is used, =
this would be stored on and obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D=

>=20
>=20
>=20
> I think this could easily be re-written to remove =E2=80=9Cpre-assessmen=
t=E2=80=9D and say:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the assessment task would be =
handled by the Evaluator component. If previously collected data is =
used, it would be obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I think we could also rewrite the latest revision of the text (from my =
Jun 16th message) to read as follows (which also makes use of SACM tasks =
which was suggested at the last virtual interim meeting).
>=20
>=20
>=20
> "The collection of additional endpoint information for the purpose of =
vulnerability assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the =
vulnerability assessment capability.  Over time, some new pieces of =
information that are needed during common types of assessments might be =
identified. An endpoint management capability can be reconfigured to =
have this information delivered automatically. This avoids the need to =
trigger additional Collection Tasks to gather this information during =
assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it might be =
observed that certain information delivered by an endpoint management =
capability is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to =
re-configure the endpoint management capability to no longer collect =
this information to reduce network and processing overhead. Instead, a =
new Collection Task can be triggered to gather this data on the rare =
occasions when it is needed."
>=20
> Let me know what you think of these changes.  If they seem reasonable, =
I can integrate them into the next revision of the I-D and we can close =
out this issue.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
>=20
>=20
> From: Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com =
<mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 1:36 PM
> To: Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com =
<mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>; Jerome =
Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com <mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com>>; =
sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>=20
> Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>=20
>=20
>=20
> My concern does not stem from using the prefix =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, =
as much as it is about the definition of the term assessment and how =
we=E2=80=99re using pre-assessment often, which turns into =E2=80=9Ccollec=
ting before the process of collecting=E2=80=9D, which is confusing at =
best.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The situation we are looking at feels very much like a cache miss.  We =
look for some information in one place and don=E2=80=99t find it, so we =
have to go fetch it from somewhere else.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com =
<mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I share Adam's distaste for "pre-" anything.
>=20
> Perhaps "external collection" - defined as simply using any non-SACM
> protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this =
case,
> e.g., a NEA Server)?
>=20
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>=20
>=20
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
> Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
> Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
> IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic =
<http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic>
> http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc =
<http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc>
> mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com <mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
> Winter  579 Park Place  Saline, MI  48176  734-944-0094 =
<tel:734-944-0094>
> Summer  PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI 49839  906-494-2434 =
<tel:906-494-2434>
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville =
<adam.w.montville@gmail.com <mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, but are we =
forgetting
> our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?  We borrow, and expand =
upon, the term from
> RFC5209.  Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:
>=20
> Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting =
posture for
> a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such =
that
> the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against compliance
> policy.=E2=80=9D  Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to =
support other uses
> of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, =
vulnerability
> detection, license management).  The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of =
capabilities on the
> endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the =
endpoint.
>=20
> But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about =
collection
> in the context of *pre*-assessment.  So, a collection before =E2=80=9Cth=
e process
> of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.
>=20
> Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?  Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=
=80=9D anything?
> There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.  If
> there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed =
during
> the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s =
something we
> need to grab all the time, or just this once.
>=20
> Thoughts?
>=20
> Adam
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org =
<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
>=20
> Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.  I =
was
> hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, =
however, I ran
> out of time.  As a result, I would like to propose the updated text as =
it
> seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says =
the
> same thing.
>=20
> The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted =
on
> 6/8/16 [1]).
>=20
> "Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes =
of=E2=80=A6Over
> time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common =
types of
> assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be
> reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This =
avoids
> the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this =
information
> during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it =
might
> be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment
> collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop
> pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and
> processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to =
gather
> this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."
>=20
> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July =
21
> st.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> *From:* Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com =
<mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com>
> <athiasjerome@gmail.com <mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com>>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM
> *To:* Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>
> *Cc:* sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue
> #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>=20
> This rewrite is imho better
> Thanks
>=20
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org =
<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>> wrote:
>=20
> Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph =
help
> clarify things?
>=20
> "In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment
> scenarios, as
> the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability =
detection
> data over
> time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional
> detection
> information that it was previously not collecting and push that
> information to the
> vulnerability management capability where it can support future
> assessments. The
> pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,
> change
> in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."
>=20
> While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability
> management capability and the endpoint management capability, as =
written, I
> think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to =
decide.
> I think the point is just that you could do something like this to =
improve
> the vulnerability assessment.
>=20
> If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be to
> just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would =
preclude
> an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their =
product.
>=20
> Thoughts?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerome Athias [mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com =
<mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM
> To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org <mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>
> Cc: sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue
>=20
> #5
>=20
>=20
> - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
>=20
> While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that
>=20
> "the
>=20
>=20
> information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint
> information":
> I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would =
have
> to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment
> capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do with
> 'unknown' additional information)
>=20
> So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to
>=20
> something
>=20
>=20
> like "the updated information"
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org =
<mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org>>:
>=20
>=20
> During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we discussed =
various open
> issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a
> result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see
> here [2][3].  The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found here =
[4].
>=20
>=20
>=20
> One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we =
ran out
> of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the
> ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the vulnerability
> assessment capability.  This question came out of a review of the
> following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario
>=20
> (specifically the
>=20
>=20
> last sentence).
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine =
an
> endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously
>=20
> collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a
> Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary
>=20
> endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository and
> a targeted collection will be necessary.  Of course,
>=20
> an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to
> enable operators to perform targeted collection under
>=20
> certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be
> provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there
>=20
> may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection of
> endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability
>=20
> assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the vulnerability
> assessment capability.  Under certain deployment
>=20
> scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the
> information beyond that which is available in the endpoint
>=20
> management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment
> capability by the endpoint whenever that information
>=20
> changes.=E2=80=9D
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the
> endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment
> capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know
> what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it
> (in which case it is probably considered a pull)?  Is there a
> situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional
> information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting =
it?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May
>=20
> 31st.
>=20
>=20
> We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario for June
>=20
> 8th.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
>=20
>=20
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/>
>=20
> [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3 =
<https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3>
>=20
> [3] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html>
>=20
> [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/>
> (looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect they
> should be
> soon)
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>
>=20
>=20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">+1 (contributor)<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 24, 2016, at 7:43 AM, =
Ira McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi Danny,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">+1<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Cheers,<br =
class=3D""></div>- Ira<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br =
class=3D"">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br =
class=3D"">Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br =
class=3D"">Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br =
class=3D"">Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br =
class=3D"">IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br =
class=3D"">Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br class=3D""><a =
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br class=3D""><a=
 style=3D"color:rgb(102,0,204)" =
href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br =
class=3D"">mailto: <a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br =
class=3D"">Winter&nbsp; 579 Park Place&nbsp; Saline, MI&nbsp; =
48176&nbsp; 734-944-0094<br class=3D"">Summer&nbsp; PO Box 221&nbsp; =
Grand Marais, MI 49839&nbsp; 906-494-2434<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div style=3D"display:inline" class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"display:inline" class=3D""></div><div style=3D"display:inline" =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""></div><div class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""></div></div></div></div>
<br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:19 =
AM, Haynes, Dan <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D"">I just reviewed the latest version of the I-D and =
found only one occurrence of =E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D in =
Appendix I.3 which says:<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f4e79" class=3D"">=E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the =
assessment task would be handled by the Evaluator component.&nbsp; If =
pre-assessment data is used, this
 would be stored on and obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D"">I think this could easily be re-written to remove =
=E2=80=9Cpre-assessment=E2=80=9D and say:<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D"">=E2=80=9CWithin the SACM Architecture, the =
assessment task would be handled by the Evaluator component. If =
previously collected data is used,
 it would be obtained from a Data Store component.=E2=80=9D<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D"">I think we could also rewrite the latest revision =
of the text
</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f4e79" class=3D"">(from my Jun 16<sup class=3D"">th</sup> message)
</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D"">to read as follows (which also makes use of SACM =
tasks which was suggested at the last virtual interim meeting).<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f4e79" class=3D"">"The collection of additional endpoint information =
for the purpose of vulnerability assessment does not necessarily need to =
be a pull by the vulnerability assessment capability.&nbsp;
 Over time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common =
types of assessments might be identified. An endpoint management =
capability can be reconfigured to have this information delivered =
automatically. This avoids the need to trigger additional
 Collection Tasks to gather this information during assessments, =
streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it might be observed that =
certain information delivered by an endpoint management capability is =
rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to
 re-configure the endpoint management capability to no longer collect =
this information to reduce network and processing overhead. Instead, a =
new Collection Task can be triggered to gather this data on the rare =
occasions when it is needed."<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D"">Let me know what you think of these changes.&nbsp; =
If they seem reasonable, I can integrate them into the next revision of =
the I-D and we can close out this issue.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Danny</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color=
:#1f497d" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p>=

<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""> Adam Montville [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">adam.w.montville@gmail.com</a>]
<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Saturday, June 18, 2016 1:36 PM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> Ira McDonald &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org"=
 target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;; Jerome Athias =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a></span></p><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"h5"><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability =
Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint =
Management Capability<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">My concern does not stem from =
using the prefix =E2=80=9Cpre=E2=80=9D, as much as it is about the =
definition of the term assessment and how we=E2=80=99re using =
pre-assessment often, which turns into =E2=80=9Ccollecting before the =
process of collecting=E2=80=9D, which is confusing
 at best.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The situation we are looking at =
feels very much like a cache miss.&nbsp; We look for some information in =
one place and don=E2=80=99t find it, so we have to go fetch it from =
somewhere else.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira =
McDonald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">Hi,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
I share Adam's distaste for "pre-" anything.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Perhaps "external collection" - defined as simply using any non-SACM<br =
class=3D"">
protocol to forward endpoint posture to a SACM Collector (in this =
case,<br class=3D"">
e.g., a NEA Server)?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Cheers,<br class=3D"">
- Ira<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br class=3D"">
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br class=3D"">
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br class=3D"">
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br class=3D"">
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br class=3D"">
IETF Designated Expert - IPP &amp; Printer MIB<br class=3D"">
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br class=3D"">
</span><a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</span><a href=3D"http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
mailto:<span class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
Winter &nbsp;579 Park Place &nbsp;Saline, MI &nbsp;48176 &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"tel:734-944-0094" value=3D"+17349440094" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">734-944-0094</a><br class=3D"">
Summer &nbsp;PO Box 221 &nbsp;Grand Marais, MI 49839 &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"tel:906-494-2434" value=3D"+19064942434" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">906-494-2434</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Adam Montville &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">adam.w.montville@gmail.com</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">&gt;<br class=3D"">
wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br style=3D"text-align:start;word-spacing:0px" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">I really don=E2=80=99t want to be the one to bring this up, =
but are we forgetting<br class=3D"">
our definition of =E2=80=9Cassessment=E2=80=9D?&nbsp; We borrow, and =
expand upon, the term from<br class=3D"">
RFC5209.&nbsp; Here=E2=80=99s what our terminology draft says:<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Assessment: Defined in [RFC5209] as =E2=80=9Cthe process of collecting =
posture for<br class=3D"">
a set of capabilities on the endpoint (e.g. host-based firewall) such =
that<br class=3D"">
the appropriate validators may evaluate the posture against =
compliance<br class=3D"">
policy.=E2=80=9D &nbsp;Within SACM the use of the term is expanded to =
support other uses<br class=3D"">
of collected posture (e.g. reporting, network enforcement, =
vulnerability<br class=3D"">
detection, license management).&nbsp; The phrase =E2=80=9Cset of =
capabilities on the<br class=3D"">
endpoint=E2=80=9D includes: hardware and software installed on the =
endpoint.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
But, in the text proposed, and in general, we are talking about =
collection<br class=3D"">
in the context of *pre*-assessment.&nbsp; So, a collection before =E2=80=9C=
the process<br class=3D"">
of collecting posture=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D, which seems off to me.<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Do we really mean to say, pre-evaluation?&nbsp; Or, do we need =E2=80=9Cpr=
e=E2=80=9D anything?<br class=3D"">
There is data available at the time of evaluation or there is not.&nbsp; =
If<br class=3D"">
there is not, we go grab it, or indicate that it needs to be grabbed =
during<br class=3D"">
the next collection opportunity, and we indicate whether it=E2=80=99s =
something we<br class=3D"">
need to grab all the time, or just this once.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Thoughts?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Adam<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Off list, I received a suggested update to this text from Charles.&nbsp; =
I was<br class=3D"">
hoping to discuss it at yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, =
however, I ran<br class=3D"">
out of time.&nbsp; As a result, I would like to propose the updated text =
as it<br class=3D"">
seemed clearer and more concise than what I had proposed, but, says =
the<br class=3D"">
same thing.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
The new text would read as follows (based on the updated draft posted =
on<br class=3D"">
6/8/16 [1]).<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
"Supplemental collection of endpoint information for the purposes =
of=E2=80=A6Over<br class=3D"">
time, some new pieces of information that are needed during common types =
of<br class=3D"">
assessments might be identified. Pre-assessment collection can be<br =
class=3D"">
reconfigured to have this information delivered automatically. This =
avoids<br class=3D"">
the need for regular supplemental collections to gather this =
information<br class=3D"">
during assessments, streamlining the assessment process. Likewise, it =
might<br class=3D"">
be observed that certain information delivered during pre-assessment<br =
class=3D"">
collection is rarely used. In this case, it might be useful to stop<br =
class=3D"">
pre-assessment collection of this information to reduce network and<br =
class=3D"">
processing overhead. Instead, supplemental collection can be used to =
gather<br class=3D"">
this data on the rare occasions when it is needed."<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed text by Tuesday July =
21<br class=3D"">
st.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Thanks,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Danny<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
[1] <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-vuln-scenario-00.txt</a=
><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
*From:* Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a><br =
class=3D"">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>&gt;]<br class=3D"">
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:08 AM<br class=3D"">
*To:* Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
*Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
*Subject:* Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue<br class=3D"">
#5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
This rewrite is imho better<br class=3D"">
Thanks<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Based on the feedback, would the following rewrite of the paragraph =
help<br class=3D"">
clarify things?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
"In many cases, the endpoint information...Under certain deployment<br =
class=3D"">
scenarios, as<br class=3D"">
the vulnerability management capability processes vulnerability =
detection<br class=3D"">
data over<br class=3D"">
time, the endpoint management capability may learn about additional<br =
class=3D"">
detection<br class=3D"">
information that it was previously not collecting and push that<br =
class=3D"">
information to the<br class=3D"">
vulnerability management capability where it can support future<br =
class=3D"">
assessments. The<br class=3D"">
pushing of this data may potentially be driven by some trigger (e.g.,<br =
class=3D"">
change<br class=3D"">
in software inventory, policy, network connectivity status, etc.)."<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
While this potentially creates a coupling between the vulnerability<br =
class=3D"">
management capability and the endpoint management capability, as =
written, I<br class=3D"">
think it will be left to the implementer of those capabilities to =
decide.<br class=3D"">
I think the point is just that you could do something like this to =
improve<br class=3D"">
the vulnerability assessment.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
If we still don't have consensus on this, another approach might be =
to<br class=3D"">
just remove this text all together as I don't think doing so would =
preclude<br class=3D"">
an implementer from supporting functionality like this in their =
product.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Thoughts?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Thanks,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Danny<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">
From: Jerome Athias [<a href=3D"mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">mailto:athiasjerome@gmail.com</a>]<br =
class=3D"">
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 2:49 AM<br class=3D"">
To: Haynes, Dan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank"=
 class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
Issue<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">#5<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">- Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
While the scenario provided by Adam is valid, if your concern is that<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">"the<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">information beyond that" would be "supplemental endpoint<br =
class=3D"">
information":<br class=3D"">
I don't see a scenario where an endpoint management capability would =
have<br class=3D"">
to push -supplemental- information to the vulnerability assessment<br =
class=3D"">
capability (what would the vulnerability assessment capability do =
with<br class=3D"">
'unknown' additional information)<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
So I think the issue is to change "the information beyond that" to<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">something<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">like "the updated information"<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
2016-05-18 16:15 GMT+03:00 Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt;:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">During yesterday=E2=80=99s virtual interim meeting, we =
discussed various open<br class=3D"">
issues with respect to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario [1] as a<br =
class=3D"">
result of feedback that we received on the draft which you can see<br =
class=3D"">
here [2][3].&nbsp; The slide=E2=80=99s from the meeting can be found =
here [4].<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
One issue that we didn=E2=80=99t have a chance to discuss because we ran =
out<br class=3D"">
of time was whether or not an endpoint management capability has the<br =
class=3D"">
ability to push supplemental endpoint information to the =
vulnerability<br class=3D"">
assessment capability.&nbsp; This question came out of a review of =
the<br class=3D"">
following text from the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">(specifically the<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">last sentence).<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
=E2=80=9CIn many cases, the endpoint information needed to determine =
an<br class=3D"">
endpoint=E2=80=99s vulnerability status will have been previously<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
collected by the Endpoint Management Capability and available in a<br =
class=3D"">
Repository. However, in other cases, the necessary<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
endpoint information will not be readily available in a Repository =
and<br class=3D"">
a targeted collection will be necessary.&nbsp; Of course,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
an implementation of an endpoint management capability may prefer to<br =
class=3D"">
enable operators to perform targeted collection under<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
certain circumstances, even when sufficient information can be<br =
class=3D"">
provided by the endpoint management capability (e.g. there<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
may be freshness requirements for information). Targeted collection =
of<br class=3D"">
endpoint information for the purpose of vulnerability<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
assessment does not necessarily need to be a pull by the =
vulnerability<br class=3D"">
assessment capability.&nbsp; Under certain deployment<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
scenarios, once the necessary detection information is known, the<br =
class=3D"">
information beyond that which is available in the endpoint<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
management capability can be pushed to the vulnerability assessment<br =
class=3D"">
capability by the endpoint whenever that information<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
changes.=E2=80=9D<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Our main question is whether or not pushing information from the<br =
class=3D"">
endpoint management capability to the vulnerability assessment<br =
class=3D"">
capability is actually possible because it would not necessarily know<br =
class=3D"">
what information it needs to push prior to the server requesting it<br =
class=3D"">
(in which case it is probably considered a pull)?&nbsp; Is there a<br =
class=3D"">
situation where the endpoint would know, in advance, what additional<br =
class=3D"">
information is needed for an assessment without a server requesting =
it?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
If you have any thoughts on this issue, please provide feedback by May<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">31st.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">We are planning to have an updated version of the scenario =
for June<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">8th.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D"">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Thanks,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Danny<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
[1] <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenario/"=
 target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-coffin-sacm-vuln-scenari=
o/</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
[2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/pull/3</a><br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
[3] <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.html" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg03958.htm=
l</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
[4] <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2016-sacm-3-1/<=
/a><br class=3D"">
(looks like the slides are not available just yet, but, I suspect =
they<br class=3D"">
should be<br class=3D"">
soon)<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
sacm mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
sacm mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
sacm mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #18 - Review Appendices and Include References
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This looks good to me, thanks Danny!

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>=20
> We have a tracker that recommends reviewing the appendices and adding =
the appropriate references to them throughout the body of the I-D [1].  =
Right now, the majority of the appendices are not referenced in the body =
of the I-D.
>=20
> I went through the body of the I-D and took a pass at referencing =
appendices where I thought it made sense with the exception of =
=E2=80=9CAppendix A - Change Log=E2=80=9D.  I will move that to a =
section between =E2=80=9CSecurity Considerations=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9CReferences=E2=80=9D.  Also, please note that I did not update =
the appendices so they appear in the order in which they are referenced. =
 I will do that in the I-D once we agree on the changes that we want to =
make.
>=20
> Anyways, please review the attached changes and let me know if they =
seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the =
Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.  Also, please let me know if you =
have suggestions for better places to make the references or if you feel =
strongly that a particular appendix is no longer needed.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
> [1] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/18 =
<https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/18>
>=20
> =
<add-vas-references.docx>_______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">This looks good to me, thanks Danny!<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jun 24, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">We have a tracker that =
recommends reviewing the appendices and adding the appropriate =
references to them throughout the body of the I-D [1].&nbsp; Right now, =
the majority of the appendices are not referenced in the body of the =
I-D.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I went through the body of the I-D and took a pass at =
referencing appendices where I thought it made sense with the exception =
of =E2=80=9CAppendix A - Change Log=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;I will move that to =
a section between =E2=80=9CSecurity Considerations=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9CReferences=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;Also, please note that I did not =
update the appendices so they appear in the order in which they are =
referenced.&nbsp; I will do that in the I-D once we agree on the changes =
that we want to make.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Anyways, please review the attached =
changes and let me know if they seem reasonable to incorporate into the =
next revision of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.&nbsp; Also, =
please let me know if you have suggestions for better places to make the =
references or if you feel strongly that a particular appendix is no =
longer needed.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Danny<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">[1]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/18" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/18</a><=
o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><span =
id=3D"cid:F5388B9F-5064-4DE4-B70E-09A707C78E61@attlocal.net">&lt;add-vas-r=
eferences.docx&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
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widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
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orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #25 - Alignment with SACM Tasks
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I like this, too, Danny, thanks!

> On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org> wrote:
>=20
> Out of the last virtual interim meeting, it was suggested that we =
better align the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D with the SACM =
Tasks defined in the Terminology I-D [1].  As a result, we added tracker =
#25 to Vulnerability-Scenario repository on GitHub  [2].
>=20
> Attached is a first pass at the updates to the Vulnerability =
Assessment Scenario I-D that incorporates SACM Tasks.  Please review the =
attached changes and let me know if they seem reasonable to incorporate =
into the next revision of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.  =
Also, please let me know if there is anything I missed or if anything =
needs further clarification.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Danny
>=20
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology-09.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology-09.txt>
> [2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25 =
<https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25><vas-task-edit=
s.docx>_______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I like this, too, Danny, thanks!<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jun 27, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org" class=3D"">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Out of the last virtual =
interim meeting, it was suggested that we better align the Vulnerability =
Assessment Scenario I-D with the SACM Tasks defined in the Terminology =
I-D [1]. &nbsp;As a result, we added tracker #25 to =
Vulnerability-Scenario repository on GitHub &nbsp;[2].<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Attached =
is a first pass at the updates to the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario =
I-D that incorporates SACM Tasks. &nbsp;Please review the attached =
changes and let me know if they seem reasonable to incorporate into the =
next revision of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.&nbsp; Also, =
please let me know if there is anything I missed or if anything needs =
further clarification.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Danny<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">[1]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology-09.txt" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology-09.txt</a><=
o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">[2]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25</a><=
o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><span =
id=3D"cid:10D350D2-6506-43D9-A967-BA187C01E697@attlocal.net">&lt;vas-task-=
edits.docx&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">sacm mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">sacm@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
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font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
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class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</a></div></blockquot=
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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Cc: Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@gmail.com>, "sacm@ietf.org" <sacm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sacm] FOR REVIEW: Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #5 - Change Detection with an Endpoint Management Capability
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #18 - Review Appendices and Include References
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #18 - Review Appendices and Include References
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From: "Haynes, Dan" <dhaynes@mitre.org>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #25 - Alignment with SACM Tasks
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Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #25 - Alignment with SACM Tasks
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Thanks again for the feedback Adam!

If anyone else has thoughts on these proposed changes, please let me know i=
n the next day or two.  Otherwise, I plan to pull in these changes at the e=
nd of the week.

Thanks,

Danny


From: Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 4:40 PM
To: Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org>
Cc: sacm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #25 - Alignment=
 with SACM Tasks

I like this, too, Danny, thanks!

On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Haynes, Dan <dhaynes@mitre.org<mailto:dhaynes=
@mitre.org>> wrote:

Out of the last virtual interim meeting, it was suggested that we better al=
ign the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D with the SACM Tasks defined i=
n the Terminology I-D [1].  As a result, we added tracker #25 to Vulnerabil=
ity-Scenario repository on GitHub  [2].

Attached is a first pass at the updates to the Vulnerability Assessment Sce=
nario I-D that incorporates SACM Tasks.  Please review the attached changes=
 and let me know if they seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revis=
ion of the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D.  Also, please let me know=
 if there is anything I missed or if anything needs further clarification.

Thanks,

Danny

[1] https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology-09.txt
[2] https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25
<vas-task-edits.docx>_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
sacm@ietf.org<mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks again for the feedback Adam!<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If anyone else has thoughts on these =
proposed changes, please let me know in the next day or two. &nbsp;Otherwis=
e, I plan to pull in these changes at the end of the
 week.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Adam Montville [mailto:adam.w.=
montville@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 27, 2016 4:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haynes, Dan &lt;dhaynes@mitre.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sacm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sacm] Vulnerability Assessment Scenario Issue #25 - Al=
ignment with SACM Tasks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I like this, too, Danny, thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Haynes, Dan &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:dhaynes@mitre.org">dhaynes@mitre.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Out of the last virtual interim meeting, it was sug=
gested that we better align the Vulnerability Assessment Scenario I-D with =
the SACM Tasks defined in the Terminology I-D
 [1]. &nbsp;As a result, we added tracker #25 to Vulnerability-Scenario rep=
ository on GitHub &nbsp;[2].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Attached is a first pass at the updates to the Vuln=
erability Assessment Scenario I-D that incorporates SACM Tasks. &nbsp;Pleas=
e review the attached changes and let me know if they
 seem reasonable to incorporate into the next revision of the Vulnerability=
 Assessment Scenario I-D.&nbsp; Also, please let me know if there is anythi=
ng I missed or if anything needs further clarification.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Danny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">[1]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-terminology-09.txt"><=
span style=3D"color:#954F72">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sacm-termin=
ology-09.txt</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">[2]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an><a href=3D"https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/25"><=
span style=3D"color:#954F72">https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenar=
io/issues/25</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;vas-task-edits.docx&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:=
9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">_______________________=
________________________<br>
sacm mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:sacm@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#954F72">sacm@ietf.org</span=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-=
serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm"><span style=
=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#954=
F72">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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Subject: Re: [sacm] [sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario] closes #25. (eecd152)
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Also, closes #12.

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<p>Also, closes <a href="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/12" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/issues/12" data-id="157693139" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#12</a>.</p>

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