From nobody Tue Aug 1 05:59:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82462132048 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:59:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 40_m3qt-qCEc for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.strongswan.org (sitav-80046.hsr.ch [152.96.80.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E83213200D for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.10.1.15] (46-126-238-39.dynamic.hispeed.ch [46.126.238.39]) by mail.strongswan.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 177EE401A8; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 15:00:14 +0200 (CEST) To: Adam Montville , Karen O'Donoghue , "sacm@ietf.org" References: From: Andreas Steffen Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:59:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms010402060404000205060804" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:59:58 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010402060404000205060804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam, see my inline comments On 31.07.2017 21:51, Adam Montville wrote: >=20 > Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute", which seems more > accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed in section > 5.2 to understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to "software" > (which is a reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW > Attribute. A SW Attribute might be a configuration item that software > contains, but not a SW Request. The SW Request attribute is used to > request software inventory related information from an endpoint, and is= > thus more appropriately an attribute associated with SWIMA than with > "software". If this is acceptable, then we should update the term in > section 10.1.=20 > A SW Request can very well be a SW Attribute. Have look at RFC5792 PA-TNC were the standard Attribute Request Attribute is defined https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5792#section-4.2.1 which can be used by a Posture Validator to request any number of PA-TNC attributes from a Posture Collector. > Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA" wherever > appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is > longer to type but also inarguably more clear. > SWIMA is the acronym for *Software Inventory Message and Attributes", i.e the I-D document is about Software Inventory Attributes being transported in PA-TNC messages of PA Subtype "SW Attributes". Since a Posture Validator can request either a SW [Identifier] Inventory Attribute or a SW [Identifier] Events Attribute, SW Request is a very good description for the request. > On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to > generate Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in > Section 6 of this document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID > 2009 and SWID 2015, but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? > What about Linux distribution package managers? What about discovered > software outside typical installation patterns? And, does it make sense= , > in a brokered architecture like NEA, to require redundant capabilities > in the anticipated myriad collectors?> Before the advent of SWIMA, simple software inventory information (Package Name/Package Version Number) available from a Linux Package Manager had to be sent in a standard Installed Packages Attribute accompanied by a standard Product Version Attribute (giving information about the underlying Operating System), both attributes defined in RFC5792 PA-TNC. Thus a minimalistic SWID 2015 tag of the form carries about the same information and the software release can be uniquely referenced by a Software Identifier of the form strongswan.org__Ubuntu_16.04-x86_64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1 Hopefully some time in the not too distant future Ubuntu in the role of a distributor would then release signed reference SWID 2015 tags e.g. with a Software Identifier of the form ubuntu.com__16.04-amd64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1 retrievable from the page manager. I think for most use cases the SWID 2015 Data Model can be used. I'm not sure about the relevance of the SWID 2009 Data Model because only about a dozen of tags seem to exist in the wild. The extensibility of the Data Model via the PEN/Type mechanism is very important. I think there are shortly going to be SWID 2015 variants, e.g using a JSON or CBOR encoding of the SW record. Hope this helps Andreas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Andreas Steffen andreas.steffen@strongswan.org strongSwan - the Open Source VPN Solution! www.strongswan.org Institute for Networked Solutions HSR University of Applied Sciences Rapperswil CH-8640 Rapperswil (Switzerland) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[INS-HSR]=3D=3D --------------ms010402060404000205060804 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC 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AIVw110yjPZr6KiThawUz2+z8snauQrSuW9l6P91U6vM6oKBBz3T7yl8 3mbS5cUlggDP6QklN4LbSsZ3jPsmxjEE X-Received: by 10.107.39.14 with SMTP id n14mr24910782ion.0.1501597568839; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 07:26:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:25:58 +0000 Message-ID: To: "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1140443cafb4180555b1ed57" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Doodle Polls for SACM Virtual Interims X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:26:11 -0000 --001a1140443cafb4180555b1ed57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" All, just in case the poll is not displaying correctly for folks, the time zone reflected is Eastern, and the first start time is 8am. When I look at the polls they show that time zone support was enabled, but I did use the beta UI... On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 12:55 PM Adam Montville wrote: > All: > > This starts a 1-week Doodle Poll for two SACM Virtual Interims. Please > complete BOTH polls. :-) > > *September Virtual Interim: *https://doodle.com/poll/7p5h2gzr7k9psaq9 > > October Virtual Interim: > > The polls will close at midnight UTC next Friday, August 4th. > > Kind regards, > > Adam > --001a1140443cafb4180555b1ed57 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All, just in case the poll is not displaying correct= ly for folks, the time zone reflected is Eastern, and the first start time = is 8am.

When I look at t= he polls they show that time zone support was enabled, but I did use the be= ta UI...

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 1= 2:55 PM Adam Montville <ad= am.w.montville@gmail.com> wrote:
All:

This starts a 1-week Doodle Poll for two = SACM Virtual Interims. Please complete BOTH polls. :-)

=
September Virtual Interim:=C2=A0https://doodle.com/poll/7p5h2gzr7k9= psaq9=C2=A0

October Virtual Interim:=C2=A0

The polls will close at midnight UTC next Friday, Aug= ust 4th.

Kind regards,

Ad= am
--001a1140443cafb4180555b1ed57-- From nobody Tue Aug 1 07:52:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F711318A8; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:52:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VAYqk3a07LbO; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC9F1131B99; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.63] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v71EqCQr064323 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Aug 2017 09:52:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.63] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 09:52:12 -0500 Cc: "sacm-chairs@ietf.org" , "sacm@ietf.org" , The IESG , "Karen O'Donoghue" , "draft-ietf-sacm-requirements@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <149849144588.31865.17392511624418268107.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <644C5859-6C9B-49A2-858A-43242777FD8D@cisco.com> <3B998144-4527-4683-8EC7-2933C40E5AAF@nostrum.com> <362BE9B7-AA1C-4B2E-9318-423CFED3F820@cisco.com> To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:52:19 -0000 Thanks! I will clear my DISCUSS. Ben. > On Jul 31, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Ben, > I=E2=80=99m good with that=E2=80=A6.I think that resolves our last = banter, so I will go ahead and rev the draft. > Many thanks! =20 > Nancy >=20 > On 7/31/17, 2:06 PM, "Ben Campbell" wrote: >=20 > Hi, comments inline, etc. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. >=20 >> On Jul 27, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = wrote: >=20 > [=E2=80=A6] >=20 >>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> DISCUSS: >>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>=20 >>>> (Resending because I forgot to hit the "send email" button this = first time. No >>>> other change.) >>>>=20 >>>> The SACM charter requires the group to " whenever reasonable and = possible, >>>> reuse existing protocols, mechanisms, information and data models. = " If that is >>>> reflected anywhere in the requirements, I missed it. (which is = possible.) In >>>> particular, I think section 2.6 needs to include requirements to = favor use of >>>> existing "transfer protocols". (As written, T-001 seems almost = tailored to >>>> counter arguments to "just use HTTP".) >>>> [NCW] =E2=80=9CWhenever reasonable and possible=E2=80=9D imho is = subjective, while we discussed=20 >>>> existing data models and protocols such as OVAL, IF-MAP, IODEF, = YANG, >>>> etc. The group concluded that it was best to include the phrase = rather than call >>>> out the ones raised in the group as new ones have arisen (e.g. = leveraging SWID >>>> and I think there is one to potentially use ROLIE). >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand your response, and I see that = version 17 did not add anything to the requirement language. Do you = argue that there are no need for requirements to prefer existing = mechanisms? I don=E2=80=99t expect a requirement to reuse any particular = mechanism by name, but I think these requirements are incomplete without = some explicit bias towards existing technologies. >>>=20 >>> Or you do you mean to argue that the analysis of potential existing = technologies has already been completed? >>> [NCW] My response was to suggest that no change was needed as the = group could not agree to a =E2=80=9Cpreferred list=E2=80=9D but rather, = not cite any in the requirements so as not to preclude other standards. = Also, to your last point, the analysis has not really been completed. = SACM is also in the process of updating its charter and in the new = charter, the work defined is going to be more prescriptive to the = technologies that will be sought. >>> At this point, I don=E2=80=99t think it makes sense to call out = preferred mechanisms in the requirements draft as the group is already = evaluating applicability of existing ones to consider (some of which = were not mentioned at the time the requirements document was evolving = and other new ones being developed in other groups @IETF can be = candidates). >>=20 >> I think we are talking past each other. I am not asking for this = document to call out specific technologies. I am asking for it to = contain a requirement to prefer existing IETF technologies over creating = new mechanisms from scratch. It doesn=E2=80=99t need to enumerate = =E2=80=9Cpreferred=E2=80=9D technologies to do that, and such a = requirement should still allow the working group to create new = mechanisms if no existing mechanism can fulfill the requirements. >> [NCW] Ah, got it. While I am not sure how it can be a MUST = requirement, I can try to add a SHOULD. How about we add a requirement = that reads: >> =E2=80=9CT-006 Transfer Protocol adoption: SACM SHOULD where = possible, leverage and use existing IETF transfer protocols versus = defining new ones. For example, where YANG [RFC6020] is used as a data = model and a REST interface is desired, RESTCONF [RFC8040] MUST be = used.=E2=80=9D >=20 > That language is in the right track. I don=E2=80=99t think the = example in the second adds much information, and may cause confusion. If = you want to keep it, I don=E2=80=99t think it should use a 2119 keyword = (MUST or otherwise), since it=E2=80=99s an example to help clarify the = requirement, not a requirement in itself. I=E2=80=99d also suggest = weakening the =E2=80=9Cwhere possible=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cwhere = reasonably possible=E2=80=9D. >=20 > So, here=E2=80=99s an alternative suggestion: >=20 > "SACM SHOULD, where reasonably possible, leverage and use existing = IETF transfer protocols versus defining new ones.=E2=80=9D >=20 > [=E2=80=A6] >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Aug 1 07:55:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietf.org Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0CA1318A8; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:55:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sacm-requirements@ietf.org, Karen O'Donoghue , sacm-chairs@ietf.org, odonoghue@isoc.org, sacm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150159930336.9566.14753232050932266323.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 07:55:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-17: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:55:03 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-17: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS position and other comments. I am clearing my DISCUSS under the expectation that an upcoming revision will include the changes that have been discussed in email. I am keeping the first comment below for posterity, but I don't expect any action on it. - I agree with the other abstain positions that the content in this draft doesn't seem to warrant publication as an RFC. I'm not going to abstain over it, since I think that sort of discussion should occur at charter or milestone adoption time. From nobody Tue Aug 1 08:05:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44DE01321A1; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 08:05:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YrKePtN_91AG; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 08:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x232.google.com (mail-pg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A9AE132197; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 08:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x232.google.com with SMTP id u185so9065503pgb.1; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 08:05:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qLDC10hZdBwSIf7+ArOTTSnI3/OI6y5EMyXTTcxCS4Q=; b=nyQj7JFi/6auDicMacXYhHq/8cDBMkn76VXmSHC937uOA7zDeJ5x9X9icWi0Yc7Lyi cN5WEwQT3/mRISh+ydrSQW5l/xee4lxdc/rHz20cdpmM7ObQKrvZkKjx5oBLzso/DzSQ LoLaIF6hVRKxxpelfw5kIkuVrHJYfPpTzThqft7/8f/2htekHfuICGXh6bQF8kjKKYwO nZC4NBMHXWFF7UFn8lswIXuxM+lrdilmR2G/GmXrx0VLDtUyWjAy80oAaULNTsBRLNQm V1puUm2NWTwYx2SMEkyCr42nrredNlb19ZMEsmaisfYmi0En/fvD/HpPkv0eAZ8zOZty bjWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qLDC10hZdBwSIf7+ArOTTSnI3/OI6y5EMyXTTcxCS4Q=; b=PDEH4/pQRNB9rOC7stNlYvFP9GRSgAQV4oYIEj8nyrwv2NHX9qTvuYEHLUWmXTPrvX JCcG+IMwEJsl+etMMY2B37aMMHyNBhD1ZIBkSoMV0qF1cCZFEsIptiUbEAknFVT4a2hB 89QQp33689VlFRFAHPQNkkU0grjBCJVfrQH3ByA4SEIJKG/3NdPFMO9El1514lcaLnTo NqiNFM/AVtoNLKZ+9mUDfjBZcBOHIdcckYZkLss5/BcAkr+ZeojSz6pKRcL4XzTb/6Ms hODjHIwI2nfXqpuDqu2Dd8cELzF5Vp+f0FwLXecTRuoCAqO2cKXElanLQlWKxJk4qOsF iBjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113+u8UGLaCn2sWJrNehtnPwFQqRQu8qNyL87q1bU6uTWsXE7CyL 0En9oopHHxX2fHeCHn2S7Chem628fg== X-Received: by 10.84.229.13 with SMTP id b13mr21400784plk.352.1501599931151; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 08:05:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.144.1 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 08:04:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149849144588.31865.17392511624418268107.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <644C5859-6C9B-49A2-858A-43242777FD8D@cisco.com> <3B998144-4527-4683-8EC7-2933C40E5AAF@nostrum.com> <362BE9B7-AA1C-4B2E-9318-423CFED3F820@cisco.com> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:04:50 -0400 Message-ID: To: Ben Campbell Cc: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "sacm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sacm-requirements@ietf.org" , "sacm@ietf.org" , "Karen O'Donoghue" , The IESG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 15:05:33 -0000 Thank you, both! On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Thanks! I will clear my DISCUSS. > > Ben. > >> On Jul 31, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) wrote: >> >> Hi Ben, >> I=E2=80=99m good with that=E2=80=A6.I think that resolves our last bante= r, so I will go ahead and rev the draft. >> Many thanks! >> Nancy >> >> On 7/31/17, 2:06 PM, "Ben Campbell" wrote: >> >> Hi, comments inline, etc. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ben. >> >>> On Jul 27, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) wrote: >> >> [=E2=80=A6] >> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - >>>>> DISCUSS: >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - >>>>> >>>>> (Resending because I forgot to hit the "send email" button this first= time. No >>>>> other change.) >>>>> >>>>> The SACM charter requires the group to " whenever reasonable and poss= ible, >>>>> reuse existing protocols, mechanisms, information and data models. " = If that is >>>>> reflected anywhere in the requirements, I missed it. (which is possib= le.) In >>>>> particular, I think section 2.6 needs to include requirements to favo= r use of >>>>> existing "transfer protocols". (As written, T-001 seems almost tailo= red to >>>>> counter arguments to "just use HTTP".) >>>>> [NCW] =E2=80=9CWhenever reasonable and possible=E2=80=9D imho is subj= ective, while we discussed >>>>> existing data models and protocols such as OVAL, IF-MAP, IODEF, YANG, >>>>> etc. The group concluded that it was best to include the phrase rath= er than call >>>>> out the ones raised in the group as new ones have arisen (e.g. levera= ging SWID >>>>> and I think there is one to potentially use ROLIE). >>>>> >>>> >>>> I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand your response, and I see that versi= on 17 did not add anything to the requirement language. Do you argue that t= here are no need for requirements to prefer existing mechanisms? I don=E2= =80=99t expect a requirement to reuse any particular mechanism by name, but= I think these requirements are incomplete without some explicit bias towar= ds existing technologies. >>>> >>>> Or you do you mean to argue that the analysis of potential existing t= echnologies has already been completed? >>>> [NCW] My response was to suggest that no change was needed as the grou= p could not agree to a =E2=80=9Cpreferred list=E2=80=9D but rather, not cit= e any in the requirements so as not to preclude other standards. Also, to = your last point, the analysis has not really been completed. SACM is also = in the process of updating its charter and in the new charter, the work def= ined is going to be more prescriptive to the technologies that will be soug= ht. >>>> At this point, I don=E2=80=99t think it makes sense to call out prefer= red mechanisms in the requirements draft as the group is already evaluating= applicability of existing ones to consider (some of which were not mention= ed at the time the requirements document was evolving and other new ones be= ing developed in other groups @IETF can be candidates). >>> >>> I think we are talking past each other. I am not asking for this docu= ment to call out specific technologies. I am asking for it to contain a req= uirement to prefer existing IETF technologies over creating new mechanisms = from scratch. It doesn=E2=80=99t need to enumerate =E2=80=9Cpreferred=E2=80= =9D technologies to do that, and such a requirement should still allow the = working group to create new mechanisms if no existing mechanism can fulfill= the requirements. >>> [NCW] Ah, got it. While I am not sure how it can be a MUST requirement= , I can try to add a SHOULD. How about we add a requirement that reads: >>> =E2=80=9CT-006 Transfer Protocol adoption: SACM SHOULD where possible, = leverage and use existing IETF transfer protocols versus defining new ones.= For example, where YANG [RFC6020] is used as a data model and a REST int= erface is desired, RESTCONF [RFC8040] MUST be used.=E2=80=9D >> >> That language is in the right track. I don=E2=80=99t think the exam= ple in the second adds much information, and may cause confusion. If you wa= nt to keep it, I don=E2=80=99t think it should use a 2119 keyword (MUST or = otherwise), since it=E2=80=99s an example to help clarify the requirement, = not a requirement in itself. I=E2=80=99d also suggest weakening the =E2=80= =9Cwhere possible=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cwhere reasonably possible=E2=80=9D. >> >> So, here=E2=80=99s an alternative suggestion: >> >> "SACM SHOULD, where reasonably possible, leverage and use existing IE= TF transfer protocols versus defining new ones.=E2=80=9D >> >> [=E2=80=A6] >> >> >> > --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:26:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietf.org Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE7F13215C; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sacm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150161556301.12175.14284416024312443837@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:26:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-18.txt X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:26:03 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring WG of the IETF. Title : Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (SACM) Requirements Authors : Nancy Cam-Winget Lisa Lorenzin Filename : draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-18.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2017-08-01 Abstract: This document defines the scope and set of requirements for the Secure Automation and Continuous Monitoring (SACM) architecture, data model and transfer protocols. The requirements and scope are based on the agreed upon use cases ([RFC7632]). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-18 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-18 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-18 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:34:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C431322F2; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:34:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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1 Aug 2017 15:34:30 -0400 From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" To: Kathleen Moriarty , Ben Campbell CC: "sacm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sacm-requirements@ietf.org" , "sacm@ietf.org" , "Karen O'Donoghue" , The IESG Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHS7pIhjU8zcKr1zUmvwgnJ3MxZwqI40NuAgCWDq4CABSp7gIAAhXWAgAQdeoCABsW3AP//kxuAgAGWqwCAAAOIAP//1fuA Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 19:34:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149849144588.31865.17392511624418268107.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <644C5859-6C9B-49A2-858A-43242777FD8D@cisco.com> <3B998144-4527-4683-8EC7-2933C40E5AAF@nostrum.com> <362BE9B7-AA1C-4B2E-9318-423CFED3F820@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.155.84.60] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4933A636BC77C744A6E54B09C34BEBA9@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:34:35 -0000 SSBqdXN0IHBvc3RlZCBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRm LXNhY20tcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLw0KSW4gd2hpY2ggSSBoYXZlIGNhcHR1cmVkIGFsbCBvZiB0aGUg dXBkYXRlcyBiYXNlZCBvbiBvdXIgbGFzdCBzZXQgb2YgZXhjaGFuZ2VzLg0KDQpUaGFua3MgQmVu IQ0KCU5hbmN5DQoNCk9uIDgvMS8xNywgODowNCBBTSwgIkthdGhsZWVuIE1vcmlhcnR5IiA8a2F0 aGxlZW4ubW9yaWFydHkuaWV0ZkBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQogICAgVGhhbmsgeW91LCBi b3RoIQ0KICAgIA0KICAgIE9uIFR1ZSwgQXVnIDEsIDIwMTcgYXQgMTA6NTIgQU0sIEJlbiBDYW1w 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cXVpcmVtZW50IGluIGl0c2VsZi4gIEnigJlkIGFsc28gc3VnZ2VzdCB3ZWFrZW5pbmcgdGhlIOKA nHdoZXJlIHBvc3NpYmxl4oCdIHRvIOKAnHdoZXJlIHJlYXNvbmFibHkgcG9zc2libGXigJ0uDQog ICAgPj4NCiAgICA+PiAgICBTbywgaGVyZeKAmXMgYW4gYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbjoN CiAgICA+Pg0KICAgID4+ICAgICJTQUNNIFNIT1VMRCwgd2hlcmUgcmVhc29uYWJseSBwb3NzaWJs ZSwgbGV2ZXJhZ2UgYW5kIHVzZSBleGlzdGluZyBJRVRGIHRyYW5zZmVyIHByb3RvY29scyB2ZXJz dXMgZGVmaW5pbmcgbmV3IG9uZXMu4oCdDQogICAgPj4NCiAgICA+PiAgICBb4oCmXQ0KICAgID4+ DQogICAgPj4NCiAgICA+Pg0KICAgID4NCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICAtLSANCiAgICAN CiAgICBCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQogICAgS2F0aGxlZW4NCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:55:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767B913230B; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:55:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ClG2uLOudhzn; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E036E131C84; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.63] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v71JswCK016253 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:54:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.63] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:54:58 -0500 Cc: Kathleen Moriarty , "sacm-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sacm-requirements@ietf.org" , "sacm@ietf.org" , "Karen O'Donoghue" , The IESG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <584CC63F-BF30-4F13-A29A-6EE148A53C8F@nostrum.com> References: <149849144588.31865.17392511624418268107.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <644C5859-6C9B-49A2-858A-43242777FD8D@cisco.com> <3B998144-4527-4683-8EC7-2933C40E5AAF@nostrum.com> <362BE9B7-AA1C-4B2E-9318-423CFED3F820@cisco.com> To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:55:06 -0000 Looks good to me. Thanks! Ben. > On Aug 1, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = wrote: >=20 > I just posted = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/ > In which I have captured all of the updates based on our last set of = exchanges. >=20 > Thanks Ben! > Nancy >=20 > On 8/1/17, 8:04 AM, "Kathleen Moriarty" = wrote: >=20 > Thank you, both! >=20 > On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Ben Campbell = wrote: >> Thanks! I will clear my DISCUSS. >>=20 >> Ben. >>=20 >>> On Jul 31, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Ben, >>> I=E2=80=99m good with that=E2=80=A6.I think that resolves our last = banter, so I will go ahead and rev the draft. >>> Many thanks! >>> Nancy >>>=20 >>> On 7/31/17, 2:06 PM, "Ben Campbell" wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi, comments inline, etc. >>>=20 >>> Thanks! >>>=20 >>> Ben. >>>=20 >>>> On Jul 27, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = wrote: >>>=20 >>> [=E2=80=A6] >>>=20 >>>>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> DISCUSS: >>>>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> (Resending because I forgot to hit the "send email" button this = first time. No >>>>>> other change.) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The SACM charter requires the group to " whenever reasonable and = possible, >>>>>> reuse existing protocols, mechanisms, information and data = models. " If that is >>>>>> reflected anywhere in the requirements, I missed it. (which is = possible.) In >>>>>> particular, I think section 2.6 needs to include requirements to = favor use of >>>>>> existing "transfer protocols". (As written, T-001 seems almost = tailored to >>>>>> counter arguments to "just use HTTP".) >>>>>> [NCW] =E2=80=9CWhenever reasonable and possible=E2=80=9D imho is = subjective, while we discussed >>>>>> existing data models and protocols such as OVAL, IF-MAP, IODEF, = YANG, >>>>>> etc. The group concluded that it was best to include the phrase = rather than call >>>>>> out the ones raised in the group as new ones have arisen (e.g. = leveraging SWID >>>>>> and I think there is one to potentially use ROLIE). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand your response, and I see that = version 17 did not add anything to the requirement language. Do you = argue that there are no need for requirements to prefer existing = mechanisms? I don=E2=80=99t expect a requirement to reuse any particular = mechanism by name, but I think these requirements are incomplete without = some explicit bias towards existing technologies. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Or you do you mean to argue that the analysis of potential = existing technologies has already been completed? >>>>> [NCW] My response was to suggest that no change was needed as the = group could not agree to a =E2=80=9Cpreferred list=E2=80=9D but rather, = not cite any in the requirements so as not to preclude other standards. = Also, to your last point, the analysis has not really been completed. = SACM is also in the process of updating its charter and in the new = charter, the work defined is going to be more prescriptive to the = technologies that will be sought. >>>>> At this point, I don=E2=80=99t think it makes sense to call out = preferred mechanisms in the requirements draft as the group is already = evaluating applicability of existing ones to consider (some of which = were not mentioned at the time the requirements document was evolving = and other new ones being developed in other groups @IETF can be = candidates). >>>>=20 >>>> I think we are talking past each other. I am not asking for this = document to call out specific technologies. I am asking for it to = contain a requirement to prefer existing IETF technologies over creating = new mechanisms from scratch. It doesn=E2=80=99t need to enumerate = =E2=80=9Cpreferred=E2=80=9D technologies to do that, and such a = requirement should still allow the working group to create new = mechanisms if no existing mechanism can fulfill the requirements. >>>> [NCW] Ah, got it. While I am not sure how it can be a MUST = requirement, I can try to add a SHOULD. How about we add a requirement = that reads: >>>> =E2=80=9CT-006 Transfer Protocol adoption: SACM SHOULD where = possible, leverage and use existing IETF transfer protocols versus = defining new ones. For example, where YANG [RFC6020] is used as a data = model and a REST interface is desired, RESTCONF [RFC8040] MUST be = used.=E2=80=9D >>>=20 >>> That language is in the right track. I don=E2=80=99t think the = example in the second adds much information, and may cause confusion. If = you want to keep it, I don=E2=80=99t think it should use a 2119 keyword = (MUST or otherwise), since it=E2=80=99s an example to help clarify the = requirement, not a requirement in itself. I=E2=80=99d also suggest = weakening the =E2=80=9Cwhere possible=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cwhere = reasonably possible=E2=80=9D. >>>=20 >>> So, here=E2=80=99s an alternative suggestion: >>>=20 >>> "SACM SHOULD, where reasonably possible, leverage and use existing = IETF transfer protocols versus defining new ones.=E2=80=9D >>>=20 >>> [=E2=80=A6] >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Kathleen >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Aug 2 03:18:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0ABE129B3A for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:18:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CfwDrdBN-42K for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22a.google.com (mail-it0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83FAA126BF0 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id h199so21423391ith.0 for ; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 03:18:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mGljuf0mj7PL8gZ+h+Ol3PCXH/qqLr8yrHJxsY6GubU=; b=haZuK29Q13QSPOes4KH26NSKF+TByT3pL8CubphpUxQxhlG1welmvgziW73mr4Y2b2 dy91hjhgyGq2XtVh2wdaaoHoJiZSxAvA7hsRuXKkHLzVdjEwHX6xfBMpoL0mK1EFXGRV 7zzmjLKO06ONL+NRT2q3nnHoPjdV2D795sxwMKjXWNELZo9n6gASvWrIXOapqaw/sNqi nzHKR0onQWYxGWpJAkRvjwRrDkKJurr2WQpT944B4wBLmh0L6K3xWdIDLTtuXOXUkySX UV5StE4n4H01I1DTlNhrZ+aHII9FCiCt8wB5KVDGbYEyFH67b5pMZSEQ9lmKj+GZFncR s5VQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=mGljuf0mj7PL8gZ+h+Ol3PCXH/qqLr8yrHJxsY6GubU=; b=daCmgL1BIBz7PQsTwMxNb+LmoSMlyYR0j174JgnufueDQxCbsL+c7qWsrrou0NFXSF DTfdmUu8IEeumuhEzJPDx/ldDBt1gY9L+Kvc8GF8X74yU5/LOEmzhD0c76gSzSzn00sh IwPVZdJNuojXH56qoWZufRWKY1F2IyqJ4kjK42fhcBcIHojYdSEhUlqHvf2su348irtY kceVpG+ztzgRmiNzwJYY3jl53AgKXww1sBaV91XDalNNVIjEqfQuX8DjrElJgunG94/o +TyhuHsGKWpeCPoF/yoCAhRdlzBXkW+AyJu4pLxyzcUbJLghhXpIHuBRuJR5C30YkwUe RtbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112EDVitvA4vnZL1B4PCgEK66mv/8oExQ7kkFVkN5BDuweIaFJij qiET9g+wCWymzc4wq/U4y+PfoDgBxajk X-Received: by 10.36.47.144 with SMTP id j138mr5101439itj.30.1501669104896; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 03:18:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:18:14 +0000 Message-ID: To: Andreas Steffen , "Karen O'Donoghue" , "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144183c9153a30555c2955e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:18:27 -0000 --001a1144183c9153a30555c2955e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks! This does help, yes. On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:59 AM Andreas Steffen < andreas.steffen@strongswan.org> wrote: > Hi Adam, > > see my inline comments > > On 31.07.2017 21:51, Adam Montville wrote: > > > > Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute", which seems more > > accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed in section > > 5.2 to understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to "software" > > (which is a reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW > > Attribute. A SW Attribute might be a configuration item that software > > contains, but not a SW Request. The SW Request attribute is used to > > request software inventory related information from an endpoint, and is > > thus more appropriately an attribute associated with SWIMA than with > > "software". If this is acceptable, then we should update the term in > > section 10.1. > > > A SW Request can very well be a SW Attribute. Have look at RFC5792 > PA-TNC were the standard Attribute Request Attribute is defined > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5792#section-4.2.1 > > which can be used by a Posture Validator to request any number of > PA-TNC attributes from a Posture Collector. > > > Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA" wherever > > appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is > > longer to type but also inarguably more clear. > > > SWIMA is the acronym for *Software Inventory Message and Attributes", > i.e the I-D document is about Software Inventory Attributes being > transported in PA-TNC messages of PA Subtype "SW Attributes". > > Since a Posture Validator can request either a SW [Identifier] Inventory > Attribute or a SW [Identifier] Events Attribute, SW Request is a > very good description for the request. > > > On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to > > generate Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in > > Section 6 of this document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID > > 2009 and SWID 2015, but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? > > What about Linux distribution package managers? What about discovered > > software outside typical installation patterns? And, does it make sense, > > in a brokered architecture like NEA, to require redundant capabilities > > in the anticipated myriad collectors?> > Before the advent of SWIMA, simple software inventory information > (Package Name/Package Version Number) available from a Linux Package > Manager had to be sent in a standard Installed Packages Attribute > accompanied by a standard Product Version Attribute (giving information > about the underlying Operating System), both attributes defined in > RFC5792 PA-TNC. Thus a minimalistic SWID 2015 tag of the form > > tagId="Ubuntu_16.04-x86_64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1" > version="1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1" versionScheme="alphanumeric"> > role="tagCreator"/> > > > carries about the same information and the software release can be > uniquely referenced by a Software Identifier of the form > > strongswan.org__Ubuntu_16.04-x86_64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1 > > Hopefully some time in the not too distant future Ubuntu in the > role of a distributor would then release signed reference SWID 2015 > tags e.g. with a Software Identifier of the form > > ubuntu.com__16.04-amd64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1 > > retrievable from the page manager. > > I think for most use cases the SWID 2015 Data Model can be used. I'm > not sure about the relevance of the SWID 2009 Data Model because only > about a dozen of tags seem to exist in the wild. > > The extensibility of the Data Model via the PEN/Type mechanism is > very important. I think there are shortly going to be SWID 2015 > variants, e.g using a JSON or CBOR encoding of the SW record. > > Hope this helps > > Andreas > > ====================================================================== > Andreas Steffen andreas.steffen@strongswan.org > strongSwan - the Open Source VPN Solution! www.strongswan.org > Institute for Networked Solutions > HSR University of Applied Sciences Rapperswil > CH-8640 Rapperswil (Switzerland) > ===========================================================[INS-HSR]== > > --001a1144183c9153a30555c2955e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks! This does help, yes.

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:59 AM Andreas Steffen <= andreas.steffen@strongswa= n.org> wrote:
Hi Adam,

see my inline comments

On 31.07.2017 21:51, Adam Montville wrote:
>
> Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute&quo= t;, which seems more
> accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed i= n section
> 5.2 to understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to &q= uot;software"
> (which is a reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW
> Attribute. A SW Attribute might be a configuration item that software<= br> > contains, but not a SW Request. The SW Request attribute is used to > request software inventory related information from an endpoint, and i= s
> thus more appropriately an attribute associated with SWIMA than with > "software". If this is acceptable, then we should update the= term in
> section 10.1.
>
A SW Request can very well be a SW Attribute. Have look at RFC5792
PA-TNC were the standard Attribute Request Attribute is defined

=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5792#section-= 4.2.1

which can be used by a Posture Validator to request any number of
PA-TNC attributes from a Posture Collector.

> Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA&= quot; wherever
> appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is
> longer to type but also inarguably more clear.
>
SWIMA is the acronym for *Software Inventory Message and Attributes",<= br> i.e the I-D document is about Software Inventory Attributes being
transported in PA-TNC messages of PA Subtype "SW Attributes".

Since a Posture Validator can request either a SW [Identifier] Inventory Attribute or a SW [Identifier] Events Attribute, SW Request is a
very good description for the request.

> On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to<= br> > generate Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in > Section 6 of this document." Section 6 describes data models for = SWID
> 2009 and SWID 2015, but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? > What about Linux distribution package managers? What about discovered<= br> > software outside typical installation patterns? And, does it make sens= e,
> in a brokered architecture like NEA, to require redundant capabilities=
> in the anticipated myriad collectors?>
Before the advent of SWIMA, simple software inventory information
(Package Name/Package Version Number) available from a Linux Package
Manager had to be sent in a standard Installed Packages Attribute
accompanied by a standard Product Version Attribute (giving information
about the underlying Operating System), both attributes defined in
RFC5792 PA-TNC. Thus a minimalistic SWID 2015 tag of the form

=C2=A0 <SoftwareIdentity name=3D"tar"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 tagId=3D"Ubuntu_16.04-x86_64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1"=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 version=3D"1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1" versionScheme=3D"= ;alphanumeric">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <Entity name=3D"strongSwan Project" regid=3D&quo= t;st= rongswan.org"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 role=3D"tagCreator"/>
=C2=A0 </SoftwareIdentity>

carries about the same information and the software release can be
uniquely referenced by a Software Identifier of the form

=C2=A0 strongswan.org__Ubuntu_16.04-x86_64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1

Hopefully some time in the not too distant future Ubuntu in the
role of a distributor would then release signed reference SWID 2015
tags e.g. with a Software Identifier of the form

=C2=A0 ubuntu.com__16.04-amd64-tar-1.28-2.1ubuntu0.1

retrievable from the page manager.

I think for most use cases the SWID 2015 Data Model can be used. I'm not sure about the relevance of the SWID 2009 Data Model because only
about a dozen of tags seem to exist in the wild.

The extensibility of the Data Model via the PEN/Type mechanism is
very important. I think there are shortly going to be SWID 2015
variants, e.g using a JSON or CBOR encoding of the SW record.

Hope this helps

Andreas

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Andreas Steffen=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0andreas.steffen@strongswan.org
strongSwan - the Open Source VPN Solution!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 www.strongswan.org
Institute for Networked Solutions
HSR University of Applied Sciences Rapperswil
CH-8640 Rapperswil (Switzerland)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[INS-HSR]=3D=3D

--001a1144183c9153a30555c2955e-- From nobody Thu Aug 3 08:42:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC10132549 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9f_o6tsNRxoN for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org [192.52.194.136]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD56B1324B5 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 423916C02C1; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 11:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (imshyb02.mitre.org [129.83.29.3]) by smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FAB6C0270; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 11:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) by imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.3) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 11:42:18 -0400 Received: from gcc01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.140.19.249) by imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 11:42:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-mitre-org; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=VV40MS4xWrfiwOoCffBfQXaL6YH2qWf/LIvsnD0ZfjE=; b=F+SOtH/ralQpw2rxoqmTSxnTvgmxTgIBk0zjPmkMqH2JOgXEgPkJqS87qm9tIctM6KcaQd1XyJoO6YvA4v0qMmbaaRLOzmrS8tTHnOfwPuRyj895AXYSjll1fhn/GZTQUGTycFVTIO7JHUk0q+B8eQae4Q7RwWgK0Rprx9Mgz9I= Received: from BN6PR09MB1186.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.172.17.144) by BN6PR09MB1187.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.172.17.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1304.22; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:42:14 +0000 Received: from BN6PR09MB1186.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.172.17.144]) by BN6PR09MB1186.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.172.17.144]) with mapi id 15.01.1304.025; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:42:15 +0000 From: "Schmidt, Charles M." To: Adam Montville , Karen O'Donoghue , "sacm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc Thread-Index: AQHTCjaluXkeLYdWp0eVHEclAw8m66Jyu3nA Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:42:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=cmschmidt@mitre.org; x-originating-ip: [192.160.51.89] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR09MB1187; 6:KRXlMA7fhcu6TOP3WWu/eg+tlOkJ9hSsKDqJpKx95fPoNWD0ejD7gWrNuNuXxxzjA5hQyFP2vLjOO8gRWiYrMZ0IWvy3agOLvEmUYViKnTqWlHf4ErxeYZRX+F/MdxDbMTMEFAQN39ldnL0u+3M9kX9dQgb24mL3yiXC0cYgVDfKnHYb6XS89jlVUyYOn9ErQ/y4qOFv83+DvBJazfz3F4OM32wklgxdCsUahOpOPpffay9K2G3vp0sPOR1ArpQD8irfxIi3x2/m+/dKpDkcZlQVbqbDU+xzj4FHYAoiN/Eqn5N4OeA9qLWPg+wAu/vSi/j3msR3ZarxnVUG7LPcZw==; 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2EE5132588 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 09:14:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id svc5mRPljJ1Z for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 09:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90E62132578 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 09:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id v73GEZJY003292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:14:37 +0200 Received: from [134.102.163.120] (134.102.163.120) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:14:30 +0200 To: References: From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:14:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.163.120] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 16:14:44 -0000 Hello Charles, hello group, from the list of topics discussed, l an cherry-picking just one implicit topic: the Registry for Software Data Models and CoSWID. I bring this up based on this hand-selected quote: > The group agreed that 2009 SWID tags should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be supported for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no control over the nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 2009, SWID 2015, something completely different, or a combination thereof. SWIMA is concerned with collection and conveyance of available information. Normalization of that information into one preferred record format is beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early conversations on SWIMA involved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, none of which appear to "dominate" are target environment today.) Maybe SACM will eventually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA will be ready and able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to support collection and conveyance of whatever software records might be available. We already had an MTI discussion and I certainly do not want to rekindle that one. SWIMA has a "flexible data representation mechanism" and CoSWIDs are also defined in the SACM WG - so my question is: what would the group like to do here? - Reference CoSWID directly in the SWIMA document in 10.4. Registry for Software Data Models, which would increase visibility, I think, or - Include a corresponding IANA request for the Registry for Software Data Models in the CoSWID document? My personal preference is to include them in SWIMA now, as CoSWID are always inter-operable with the existing two entries and including the registration in SWIMA will expedite the next actions for CoSWID. I think Charles brought that exact question up once already, but there was neither push-back nor support (aka indifference). In respect to Charles question a few months ago: Including CoSWID in the registration list would have my support. Viele Grüße, Henk On 08/03/2017 05:42 PM, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote: > Hi Adam, > > A few inline comments added to those made by Andreas. (And thanks to Andreas for his inputs.) > >> Should we be referencing the NIST interagency report related to SWID or the >> ISO standard directly? The NIST document is more readily accessible, and if >> they have parity, then we might gain points for referencing the freely >> available resource. > > The NIST and ISO documents are not equivalent. The NIST document describes best practices for using and creating SWID tags, and someone could use that and the freely available SWID tag XML schema to create compliant tags. However, the ISO document remains the authoritative source for SWID tag compliance. As such, I feel most references should be made to the (authoritative) ISO specification. > > That said, it probably makes sense to add an informational reference to the NIST specification for the reasons you mention. > >> Is there a reason to mention TCG + NEA in the introduction? If we're looking >> at NEA, then let's just use NEA references and not the TCG ones for, at least, >> the sake of consistency. > > I think there are a few reasons to at least mention the relationship to TCG's TNC. > 1) It emphasizes that there is alignment (rather than bifurcation) in these standards. > 2) It sends a reasonable call out to the TCG board, who agreed to support transfer of this specification to the IETF. > > That said, I can agree that Table 1 (which identifies equivalent components in the two architectures) might be more than is necessary. If we drop Table 1 but retain the final paragraph of section 1.1 ("This document is based on standards published by the Trusted Computing Group's Trusted Network Communications (TNC) workgroup. The TNC and NEA architectures are interoperable and many components are equivalent.") would this address your concern? > >> Propose modified definition for SW-PC: A Posture Collector (PC) that collects >> endpoint software inventory information and that conforms to this >> specification. >> >> Propose modified definition for SW-PV: A Posture Validator (PV) that >> interprets SW Attributes sent by SW-PCs and that conforms to this >> specification. > > I like the rewording. > >> Propose modified definition for SW Attribute: A PA-TNC attribute that >> conveys software inventory information. (NOTE: We should ensure that PA- >> TNC is the NEA-specific term.) > > In retrospect, I'm not sure I like this or what currently exists. There are PA-TNC attributes that convey software information, but are not "SW attributes". Moreover, (for reasons you noted) the requests don't convey software information, but need to be considered SW attributes for the sake of this document. That term needs to refer specifically to the attributes that are defined in this specification. I propose: > > SW Attribute - This is a PA-TNC attribute (as defined in RFC 5792 [RFC5792]) extension as defined in this specification. > >> Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute", which seems more >> accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed in section 5.2 to >> understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to "software" (which is a >> reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW Attribute. A SW >> Attribute might be a configuration item that software contains, but not a SW >> Request. The SW Request attribute is used to request software inventory >> related information from an endpoint, and is thus more appropriately an >> attribute associated with SWIMA than with "software". If this is acceptable, >> then we should update the term in section 10.1. >> >> Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA" wherever >> appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is longer >> to type but also inarguably more clear. > > Stephen's comments notwithstanding, I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, SW Attribute (and SW-PC and SW-PV) are primarily characterized by their conformance to the SWIMA specification, rather than just being software related. There are other NEA components that deal with software but are not part of SWIMA and therefore would not be SW-PCs or SW Attributes according to our definitions, which I agree might be confusing. In that regard, SWIMA-PC and SWIMA Attribute better capture the key characteristic of these entities. > > On the other hand, a "Software Inventory Message and Attributes Attribute" seems a bit redundant. > > Overall, I think I might be more inclined to go along with your suggestion and change SW Attribute to SWIMA Attribute (and SW-PC to SWIMA-PC, etc.) because it will better emphasize the key characteristic of these entities - that they are conformant to the SWIMA specification. (Really looking forward to a few hundred search and replace actions here....) > >> On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to generate >> Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in Section 6 of this >> document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID 2009 and SWID 2015, >> but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? What about Linux distribution >> package managers? > > Adding on to Stephen's comments, I'll note that we intend SWIMA to be extensible. If someone wished to report RPM records or other types of packages, they are welcome to do so. The just need to define an authoritative way of deriving a Software Identifier from the record. However, I don't think we want to *require* support for such packages in all SW-PCs. > >> What about discovered software outside typical >> installation patterns? > > As Andreas notes, such software can still be represented using SWID tags. They could also be represented using other record formats, as I note above. > >> And, does it make sense, in a brokered architecture like >> NEA, to require redundant capabilities in the anticipated myriad collectors? > > Not sure how this is "redundant". The group agreed that 2009 SWID tags should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be supported for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no control over the nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 2009, SWID 2015, something completely different, or a combination thereof. SWIMA is concerned with collection and conveyance of available information. Normalization of that information into one preferred record format is beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early conversations on SWIMA involved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, none of which appear to "dominate" are target environment today.) Maybe SACM will eventually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA will be ready and able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to support collection and conveyance of whatever software records might be available. > >> Are the subscription semantics of this draft intended to be extrapolated to >> other types of information collection going over PT-TLS in the future? This >> wasn't clear to me when reading the draft, but the IANA table additions >> (section 10.2) relating to subscriptions appear to have names generic enough >> to be reused. If that's the intent, then maybe we can figure out an easy way >> to clarify this in the draft, so that subsequent collection drafts are easier to >> create. > > I was not intending to create a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC. (Subscriptions would be at the application layer, rather than transport layer, which is what PT-TLS is.) I'm not sure a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC is really feasible since different types of information will have different triggers and different transport constraints. > > With regard to the generic names of the attributes: on a technical level, there will be no ambiguity. The attributes defined in this specification (with the exception of PA-TNC Error) are all part of the SWIMA PA Subtype. (Basically, this serves as a namespace for all the attributes defined in this specification.) Some other PA-TNC extension might conceivably define their own "Subscription Status Request" attribute, but it would have a different PA Subtype, so there would never be any confusion as to meaning. True - a human might get confused; however, I think this is mitigated by the fact that the attribute names really only are used within the context of a specific PA TNC extension (e.g., within the SWIMA specification). Thus I don't think there will be many practical opportunities for people to get confused. As such, I'd prefer to keep the names as they are rather than to make them even longer by prepending SWIMA or some other specification-specific label. > > Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. > > Charles > >> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM Karen O'Donoghue > > wrote: >> >> >> Folks, >> >> This begins a 3 week working group last call (WGLC) for the following >> document: >> >> Software Inventory Message and Attributes (SWIMA) for PA-TNC >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc/ >> >> We have chosen to do a 3 week WGLC to account for post IETF >> recovery and August vacations. >> >> Please review the referenced document and send any comments to >> the mailing list including your assessment of whether this document is >> mature enough to proceed to the IESG. Please note that these messages of >> support for progression to the mailing list will be used to determine WG >> consensus to proceed. >> >> Please send all comments in by Friday 18 August 2017. >> >> Thank you! >> Karen and Adam >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sacm mailing list >> sacm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm >> > > _______________________________________________ > sacm mailing list > sacm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm > From nobody Thu Aug 3 20:00:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4EB132043 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 19:59:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rKQm1DSPAJRB for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 19:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omr-a010e.mx.aol.com (omr-a010e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60CF0132014 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 19:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaomg-aaf01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aaf01.mx.aol.com [172.26.127.99]) by omr-a010e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 63B3838000AE; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mdx13c.mail.aol.com (core-mdx13.mail.aol.com [10.75.23.10]) by mtaomg-aaf01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 115B138000083; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 96.231.29.98 by webprd-m32.mail.aol.com (10.74.63.40) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 03 Aug 2017 22:59:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:59:54 -0400 From: Ruben Oliva To: cmschmidt@mitre.org, adam.w.montville@gmail.com, odonoghue@isoc.org, sacm@ietf.org, david.waltermire@nist.gov Message-Id: <15dab2f5cf5-5f57-22e8@webprd-m32.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10755_540035429.1501815594227" X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [96.231.29.98] x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7f635983e32b6720 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 03:00:00 -0000 ------=_Part_10755_540035429.1501815594227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles and team: I have been following the progress of SACM since around 2012 and like what I see, but I am still too used the way NIST/SCAP works. Somehow I thought that NIST (via the NVLAP labs) would include SWID as another SCAP specification. >From what I can tell, there is no SCAP product that uses SWID (https://nvd.nist.gov/scap/validated-tools). As it is now, there is no incentive of any kind to embrace SWID for users of SCAP products, even though NIST appears to endorse it (IR 8060 and IR 8085). So my question is. Will SWID be included in any future NVLAP testing and be advertised as an NIST-validated SCAP tool? David Oliva -----Original Message----- From: Schmidt, Charles M. To: Adam Montville ; Karen O'Donoghue ; sacm Sent: Thu, Aug 3, 2017 11:42 am Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc Hi Adam, A few inline comments added to those made by Andreas. (And thanks to Andreas for his inputs.) > Should we be referencing the NIST interagency report related to SWID or the > ISO standard directly? The NIST document is more readily accessible, and if > they have parity, then we might gain points for referencing the freely > available resource. The NIST and ISO documents are not equivalent. The NIST document describes best practices for using and creating SWID tags, and someone could use that and the freely available SWID tag XML schema to create compliant tags. However, the ISO document remains the authoritative source for SWID tag compliance. As such, I feel most references should be made to the (authoritative) ISO specification. That said, it probably makes sense to add an informational reference to the NIST specification for the reasons you mention. > Is there a reason to mention TCG + NEA in the introduction? If we're looking > at NEA, then let's just use NEA references and not the TCG ones for, at least, > the sake of consistency. I think there are a few reasons to at least mention the relationship to TCG's TNC. 1) It emphasizes that there is alignment (rather than bifurcation) in these standards. 2) It sends a reasonable call out to the TCG board, who agreed to support transfer of this specification to the IETF. That said, I can agree that Table 1 (which identifies equivalent components in the two architectures) might be more than is necessary. If we drop Table 1 but retain the final paragraph of section 1.1 ("This document is based on standards published by the Trusted Computing Group's Trusted Network Communications (TNC) workgroup. The TNC and NEA architectures are interoperable and many components are equivalent.") would this address your concern? > Propose modified definition for SW-PC: A Posture Collector (PC) that collects > endpoint software inventory information and that conforms to this > specification. > > Propose modified definition for SW-PV: A Posture Validator (PV) that > interprets SW Attributes sent by SW-PCs and that conforms to this > specification. I like the rewording. > Propose modified definition for SW Attribute: A PA-TNC attribute that > conveys software inventory information. (NOTE: We should ensure that PA- > TNC is the NEA-specific term.) In retrospect, I'm not sure I like this or what currently exists. There are PA-TNC attributes that convey software information, but are not "SW attributes". Moreover, (for reasons you noted) the requests don't convey software information, but need to be considered SW attributes for the sake of this document. That term needs to refer specifically to the attributes that are defined in this specification. I propose: SW Attribute - This is a PA-TNC attribute (as defined in RFC 5792 [RFC5792]) extension as defined in this specification. > Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute", which seems more > accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed in section 5.2 to > understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to "software" (which is a > reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW Attribute. A SW > Attribute might be a configuration item that software contains, but not a SW > Request. The SW Request attribute is used to request software inventory > related information from an endpoint, and is thus more appropriately an > attribute associated with SWIMA than with "software". If this is acceptable, > then we should update the term in section 10.1. > > Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA" wherever > appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is longer > to type but also inarguably more clear. Stephen's comments notwithstanding, I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, SW Attribute (and SW-PC and SW-PV) are primarily characterized by their conformance to the SWIMA specification, rather than just being software related. There are other NEA components that deal with software but are not part of SWIMA and therefore would not be SW-PCs or SW Attributes according to our definitions, which I agree might be confusing. In that regard, SWIMA-PC and SWIMA Attribute better capture the key characteristic of these entities. On the other hand, a "Software Inventory Message and Attributes Attribute" seems a bit redundant. Overall, I think I might be more inclined to go along with your suggestion and change SW Attribute to SWIMA Attribute (and SW-PC to SWIMA-PC, etc.) because it will better emphasize the key characteristic of these entities - that they are conformant to the SWIMA specification. (Really looking forward to a few hundred search and replace actions here....) > On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to generate > Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in Section 6 of this > document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID 2009 and SWID 2015, > but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? What about Linux distribution > package managers? Adding on to Stephen's comments, I'll note that we intend SWIMA to be extensible. If someone wished to report RPM records or other types of packages, they are welcome to do so. The just need to define an authoritative way of deriving a Software Identifier from the record. However, I don't think we want to *require* support for such packages in all SW-PCs. > What about discovered software outside typical > installation patterns? As Andreas notes, such software can still be represented using SWID tags. They could also be represented using other record formats, as I note above. > And, does it make sense, in a brokered architecture like > NEA, to require redundant capabilities in the anticipated myriad collectors? Not sure how this is "redundant". The group agreed that 2009 SWID tags should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be supported for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no control over the nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 2009, SWID 2015, something completely different, or a combination thereof. SWIMA is concerned with collection and conveyance of available information. Normalization of that information into one preferred record format is beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early conversations on SWIMA involved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, none of which appear to "dominate" are target environment today.) Maybe SACM will eventually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA will be ready and able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to support collection and conveyance of whatever software records might be available. > Are the subscription semantics of this draft intended to be extrapolated to > other types of information collection going over PT-TLS in the future? This > wasn't clear to me when reading the draft, but the IANA table additions > (section 10.2) relating to subscriptions appear to have names generic enough > to be reused. If that's the intent, then maybe we can figure out an easy way > to clarify this in the draft, so that subsequent collection drafts are easier to > create. I was not intending to create a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC. (Subscriptions would be at the application layer, rather than transport layer, which is what PT-TLS is.) I'm not sure a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC is really feasible since different types of information will have different triggers and different transport constraints. With regard to the generic names of the attributes: on a technical level, there will be no ambiguity. The attributes defined in this specification (with the exception of PA-TNC Error) are all part of the SWIMA PA Subtype. (Basically, this serves as a namespace for all the attributes defined in this specification.) Some other PA-TNC extension might conceivably define their own "Subscription Status Request" attribute, but it would have a different PA Subtype, so there would never be any confusion as to meaning. True - a human might get confused; however, I think this is mitigated by the fact that the attribute names really only are used within the context of a specific PA TNC extension (e.g., within the SWIMA specification). Thus I don't think there will be many practical opportunities for people to get confused. As such, I'd prefer to keep the names as they are rather than to make them even longer by prepending SWIMA or some other specification-specific label. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. Charles > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM Karen O'Donoghue > wrote: > > > Folks, > > This begins a 3 week working group last call (WGLC) for the following > document: > > Software Inventory Message and Attributes (SWIMA) for PA-TNC > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc/ > > We have chosen to do a 3 week WGLC to account for post IETF > recovery and August vacations. > > Please review the referenced document and send any comments to > the mailing list including your assessment of whether this document is > mature enough to proceed to the IESG. Please note that these messages of > support for progression to the mailing list will be used to determine WG > consensus to proceed. > > Please send all comments in by Friday 18 August 2017. > > Thank you! > Karen and Adam > > _______________________________________________ > sacm mailing list > sacm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm > _______________________________________________ sacm mailing list sacm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm ------=_Part_10755_540035429.1501815594227 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Charles and team:
 
I have been following the progress of SACM since around 2012 and like what I see, but I am still too used the way NIST/SCAP works.

Somehow I thought that NIST (via the NVLAP labs) would include SWID as another SCAP specification.
 
From what I can tell, there is no SCAP product that uses SWID (https://nvd.nist.gov/scap/validated-tools).
As it is now, there is no incentive of any kind to embrace SWID for users of SCAP products,
even though NIST appears to endorse it (IR 8060 and IR 8085).
 
 
So my question is.
 
Will SWID be included in any future NVLAP testing and be advertised as an NIST-validated SCAP tool?
 
 
 
David Oliva
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org>
To: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>; Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org>; sacm <sacm@ietf.org>
Sent: Thu, Aug 3, 2017 11:42 am
Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc

Hi Adam,

A few inline comments added to those made by Andreas. (And thanks to Andreas for his inputs.)

> Should we be referencing the NIST interagency report related to SWID or the
> ISO standard directly? The NIST document is more readily accessible, and if
> they have parity, then we might gain points for referencing the freely
> available resource.

The NIST and ISO documents are not equivalent. The NIST document describes best practices for using and creating SWID tags, and someone could use that and the freely available SWID tag XML schema to create compliant tags. However, the ISO document remains the authoritative source for SWID tag compliance. As such, I feel most references should be made to the (authoritative) ISO specification.

That said, it probably makes sense to add an informational reference to the NIST specification for the reasons you mention.

> Is there a reason to mention TCG + NEA in the introduction? If we're looking
> at NEA, then let's just use NEA references and not the TCG ones for, at least,
> the sake of consistency.

I think there are a few reasons to at least mention the relationship to TCG's TNC.
1) It emphasizes that there is alignment (rather than bifurcation) in these standards.
2) It sends a reasonable call out to the TCG board, who agreed to support transfer of this specification to the IETF.

That said, I can agree that Table 1 (which identifies equivalent components in the two architectures) might be more than is necessary. If we drop Table 1 but retain the final paragraph of section 1.1 ("This document is based on standards published by the Trusted Computing Group's Trusted Network Communications (TNC) workgroup. The TNC and NEA architectures are interoperable and many components are equivalent.") would this address your concern?

> Propose modified definition for SW-PC: A Posture Collector (PC) that collects
> endpoint software inventory information and that conforms to this
> specification.
>
> Propose modified definition for SW-PV: A Posture Validator (PV) that
> interprets SW Attributes sent by SW-PCs and that conforms to this
> specification.

I like the rewording.

> Propose modified definition for SW Attribute: A PA-TNC attribute that
> conveys software inventory information. (NOTE: We should ensure that PA-
> TNC is the NEA-specific term.)

In retrospect, I'm not sure I like this or what currently exists. There are PA-TNC attributes that convey software information, but are not "SW attributes". Moreover, (for reasons you noted) the requests don't convey software information, but need to be considered SW attributes for the sake of this document. That term needs to refer specifically to the attributes that are defined in this specification. I propose:

SW Attribute - This is a PA-TNC attribute (as defined in RFC 5792 [RFC5792]) extension as defined in this specification.

> Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute", which seems more
> accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed in section 5.2 to
> understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to "software" (which is a
> reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW Attribute. A SW
> Attribute might be a configuration item that software contains, but not a SW
> Request. The SW Request attribute is used to request software inventory
> related information from an endpoint, and is thus more appropriately an
> attribute associated with SWIMA than with "software". If this is acceptable,
> then we should update the term in section 10.1.
>
> Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA" wherever
> appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is longer
> to type but also inarguably more clear.

Stephen's comments notwithstanding, I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, SW Attribute (and SW-PC and SW-PV) are primarily characterized by their conformance to the SWIMA specification, rather than just being software related. There are other NEA components that deal with software but are not part of SWIMA and therefore would not be SW-PCs or SW Attributes according to our definitions, which I agree might be confusing. In that regard, SWIMA-PC and SWIMA Attribute better capture the key characteristic of these entities.

On the other hand, a "Software Inventory Message and Attributes Attribute" seems a bit redundant.

Overall, I think I might be more inclined to go along with your suggestion and change SW Attribute to SWIMA Attribute (and SW-PC to SWIMA-PC, etc.) because it will better emphasize the key characteristic of these entities - that they are conformant to the SWIMA specification. (Really looking forward to a few hundred search and replace actions here....)

> On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to generate
> Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in Section 6 of this
> document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID 2009 and SWID 2015,
> but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? What about Linux distribution
> package managers?

Adding on to Stephen's comments, I'll note that we intend SWIMA to be extensible. If someone wished to report RPM records or other types of packages, they are welcome to do so. The just need to define an authoritative way of deriving a Software Identifier from the record. However, I don't think we want to *require* support for such packages in all SW-PCs.

> What about discovered software outside typical
> installation patterns?

As Andreas notes, such software can still be represented using SWID tags. They could also be represented using other record formats, as I note above.

> And, does it make sense, in a brokered architecture like
> NEA, to require redundant capabilities in the anticipated myriad collectors?

Not sure how this is "redundant". The group agreed that 2009 SWID tags should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be supported for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no control over the nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 2009, SWID 2015, something completely different, or a combination thereof. SWIMA is concerned with collection and conveyance of available information. Normalization of that information into one preferred record format is beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early conversations on SWIMA involved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, none of which appear to "dominate" are target environment today.) Maybe SACM will eventually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA will be ready and able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to support collection and conveyance of whatever software records might be available.

> Are the subscription semantics of this draft intended to be extrapolated to
> other types of information collection going over PT-TLS in the future? This
> wasn't clear to me when reading the draft, but the IANA table additions
> (section 10.2) relating to subscriptions appear to have names generic enough
> to be reused. If that's the intent, then maybe we can figure out an easy way
> to clarify this in the draft, so that subsequent collection drafts are easier to
> create.

I was not intending to create a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC. (Subscriptions would be at the application layer, rather than transport layer, which is what PT-TLS is.) I'm not sure a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC is really feasible since different types of information will have different triggers and different transport constraints.

With regard to the generic names of the attributes: on a technical level, there will be no ambiguity. The attributes defined in this specification (with the exception of PA-TNC Error) are all part of the SWIMA PA Subtype. (Basically, this serves as a namespace for all the attributes defined in this specification.) Some other PA-TNC extension might conceivably define their own "Subscription Status Request" attribute, but it would have a different PA Subtype, so there would never be any confusion as to meaning. True - a human might get confused; however, I think this is mitigated by the fact that the attribute names really only are used within the context of a specific PA TNC extension (e.g., within the SWIMA specification). Thus I don't think there will be many practical opportunities for people to get confused. As such, I'd prefer to keep the names as they are rather than to make them even longer by prepending SWIMA or some other specification-specific label.

Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.

Charles

> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org
> <mailto:odonoghue@isoc.org> > wrote:
>
>
> Folks,
>
> This begins a 3 week working group last call (WGLC) for the following
> document:
>
> Software Inventory Message and Attributes (SWIMA) for PA-TNC
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc/
>
> We have chosen to do a 3 week WGLC to account for post IETF
> recovery and August vacations.
>
> Please review the referenced document and send any comments to
> the mailing list including your assessment of whether this document is
> mature enough to proceed to the IESG. Please note that these messages of
> support for progression to the mailing list will be used to determine WG
> consensus to proceed.
>
> Please send all comments in by Friday 18 August 2017.
>
> Thank you!
> Karen and Adam
>
> _______________________________________________
> sacm mailing list
> sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
>

_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
sacm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
 ------=_Part_10755_540035429.1501815594227-- From nobody Fri Aug 4 04:07:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1179D1317AD for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:07:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OsMiId3s-5Vj for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com (mail-it0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CA3F13206D for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id 77so6176206itj.1 for ; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 04:07:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=31gMxP++KHgt6tlCuh17/3OJfN7NbotQ7hlvt/PEJOE=; b=RwquwXEik1NJt2ab2pFqutL6uMlmhma+cIgeXcHQjQpXeeQaznDmCnpxMBG8yB00uK dK22qOyzficSqJdBDPNA/uYdauhAzJOeHlvDFzGueoroEQn+CtFMA53F9bUhaCgsgzI7 YScxIhqdoW4ehtwWXP/35Onn+CCHd2/doTplQ3ejQVlhHLMDkX5Ukad20s3VGEZtpiRl dY2XHTeH5zLvPvhJlsoNpId5xq/IkRRlfctzmwk6lejnCYv1XbHP6+L69U+PlwfkAvpO roYicdL4jKNyNaP+mRmpEun/sDTADCXJ5Wv8VlpVRQSc02uQ9fegz9jKXKNYimPC5eQ+ rodw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=31gMxP++KHgt6tlCuh17/3OJfN7NbotQ7hlvt/PEJOE=; b=CblPhmQ6nJz7BEim0Prby6KElEDhudRdWA2czzP+rJzGpwJBrrhNwA4kUWAWx6wvQp nPIymhJPkqFENX9xuDRHvwvp6klF/BMLVj/zd65ULCkVaafcfVKlyoB6rZp+6w1Hfi+0 HmNPaY9d81uGt0+k9W1VW5S8XtSNNV7WgXuPKor7I5v1aN+tzPuVs1kLU+xsWarWQH9j QS3z265Imx3t0gzL6p8+KWo6VX83UlaOnn/dvUDJaOYLVwna+H/R9Fruk5b6rmG9LKHf moqVH5vRHptzwh3L0EPESiCJEY/AWw/R2zHI3khvqtZEvhMr28M+idcdjpxQ/JG0H8+k Ma4g== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110iy8VWWvdpx418itqsCFmLzPUhl5xITw3cyE3bY4a0mWvofnLd wnoH/iQDzLRdJ59kNmTdPW39SQYbYA== X-Received: by 10.36.118.80 with SMTP id z77mr1668102itb.53.1501844833442; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 04:07:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:07:02 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Schmidt, Charles M." , "Karen O'Donoghue" , "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113f6218ce1f610555eb7fee" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:07:17 -0000 --001a113f6218ce1f610555eb7fee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks to both of you for your responses... I have my own inline. Please note that I'm heading out on vacation for two weeks, so my response time may lag a bit, but I will be checking in from time to time. On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 10:42 AM Schmidt, Charles M. wrote: > Hi Adam, > > A few inline comments added to those made by Andreas. (And thanks to > Andreas for his inputs.) > > > Should we be referencing the NIST interagency report related to SWID or > the > > ISO standard directly? The NIST document is more readily accessible, and > if > > they have parity, then we might gain points for referencing the freely > > available resource. > > The NIST and ISO documents are not equivalent. The NIST document describes > best practices for using and creating SWID tags, and someone could use that > and the freely available SWID tag XML schema to create compliant tags. > However, the ISO document remains the authoritative source for SWID tag > compliance. As such, I feel most references should be made to the > (authoritative) ISO specification. > > That said, it probably makes sense to add an informational reference to > the NIST specification for the reasons you mention. > > > Is there a reason to mention TCG + NEA in the introduction? If we're > looking > > at NEA, then let's just use NEA references and not the TCG ones for, at > least, > > the sake of consistency. > > I think there are a few reasons to at least mention the relationship to > TCG's TNC. > 1) It emphasizes that there is alignment (rather than bifurcation) in > these standards. > 2) It sends a reasonable call out to the TCG board, who agreed to support > transfer of this specification to the IETF. > > That said, I can agree that Table 1 (which identifies equivalent > components in the two architectures) might be more than is necessary. If we > drop Table 1 but retain the final paragraph of section 1.1 ("This document > is based on standards published by the Trusted Computing Group's Trusted > Network Communications (TNC) workgroup. The TNC and NEA architectures are > interoperable and many components are equivalent.") would this address your > concern? > > [AWM] This was less of a 'concern' than an observation (i.e. not a strenuous objection). If folks feel the table is worthwhile, then by all means keep it. If we can safely drop it (i.e. remove it without losing the point of what we really want to convey), then do that in the name of better communication. > > Propose modified definition for SW-PC: A Posture Collector (PC) that > collects > > endpoint software inventory information and that conforms to this > > specification. > > > > Propose modified definition for SW-PV: A Posture Validator (PV) that > > interprets SW Attributes sent by SW-PCs and that conforms to this > > specification. > > I like the rewording. > > > Propose modified definition for SW Attribute: A PA-TNC attribute that > > conveys software inventory information. (NOTE: We should ensure that PA- > > TNC is the NEA-specific term.) > > In retrospect, I'm not sure I like this or what currently exists. There > are PA-TNC attributes that convey software information, but are not "SW > attributes". Moreover, (for reasons you noted) the requests don't convey > software information, but need to be considered SW attributes for the sake > of this document. That term needs to refer specifically to the attributes > that are defined in this specification. I propose: > > SW Attribute - This is a PA-TNC attribute (as defined in RFC 5792 > [RFC5792]) extension as defined in this specification. > [AWM] This seems acceptable, given that we need to work with terms defined elsewhere. Thanks for considering. > > > Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute", which seems more > > accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed in section > 5.2 to > > understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to "software" (which is a > > reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW Attribute. A SW > > Attribute might be a configuration item that software contains, but not > a SW > > Request. The SW Request attribute is used to request software inventory > > related information from an endpoint, and is thus more appropriately an > > attribute associated with SWIMA than with "software". If this is > acceptable, > > then we should update the term in section 10.1. > > > > Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA" wherever > > appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is longer > > to type but also inarguably more clear. > > Stephen's comments notwithstanding, I'm of two minds here. On the one > hand, SW Attribute (and SW-PC and SW-PV) are primarily characterized by > their conformance to the SWIMA specification, rather than just being > software related. There are other NEA components that deal with software > but are not part of SWIMA and therefore would not be SW-PCs or SW > Attributes according to our definitions, which I agree might be confusing. > In that regard, SWIMA-PC and SWIMA Attribute better capture the key > characteristic of these entities. > > On the other hand, a "Software Inventory Message and Attributes Attribute" > seems a bit redundant. > > Overall, I think I might be more inclined to go along with your suggestion > and change SW Attribute to SWIMA Attribute (and SW-PC to SWIMA-PC, etc.) > because it will better emphasize the key characteristic of these entities - > that they are conformant to the SWIMA specification. (Really looking > forward to a few hundred search and replace actions here....) > [AWM] Yes, it's a lot of search and replace, but in the end I really think this will help future understandability and I appreciate the effort. And, thankfully, most folks are likely to simply pronounce the acronym "SWIMA" rather than spell it out (because it is, technically, redundant). > > > On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to generate > > Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in Section 6 of > this > > document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID 2009 and SWID 2015, > > but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? What about Linux > distribution > > package managers? > > Adding on to Stephen's comments, I'll note that we intend SWIMA to be > extensible. If someone wished to report RPM records or other types of > packages, they are welcome to do so. The just need to define an > authoritative way of deriving a Software Identifier from the record. > However, I don't think we want to *require* support for such packages in > all SW-PCs. [AWM] I was looking at this a bit differently, I think. If there is a collector capable of expressing RPM packages, as an example, and they want to extend this to shuttle that information over PT-TLS, then would they need to also collect 2009 and 2015 SWIDs? It seems contrary to the point of having posture brokers. Maybe I'm missing something. > > > What about discovered software outside typical > > installation patterns? > > As Andreas notes, such software can still be represented using SWID tags. > They could also be represented using other record formats, as I note above. > [AWM] Do we need to mention how? If so, is this the right place to do that? > > > And, does it make sense, in a brokered architecture like > > NEA, to require redundant capabilities in the anticipated myriad > collectors? > > Not sure how this is "redundant". The group agreed that 2009 SWID tags > should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be supported > for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no control over the > nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 2009, SWID 2015, > something completely different, or a combination thereof. SWIMA is > concerned with collection and conveyance of available information. > Normalization of that information into one preferred record format is > beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early conversations > on SWIMA involved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, none > of which appear to "dominate" are target environment today.) Maybe SACM > will eventually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA will be > ready and able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to support > collection and conveyance of whatever software records might be available. > [AWM] Maybe I should ask this way. Is the expectation that RPM package management collectors, for example, would require a separate specification for shuttling over PT-TLS, or that they would extend this draft? If a separate specification, then I retract my comments, because then SWID data models aren't necessary. If an extension of this draft, then my comment remains. > > > Are the subscription semantics of this draft intended to be extrapolated > to > > other types of information collection going over PT-TLS in the future? > This > > wasn't clear to me when reading the draft, but the IANA table additions > > (section 10.2) relating to subscriptions appear to have names generic > enough > > to be reused. If that's the intent, then maybe we can figure out an easy > way > > to clarify this in the draft, so that subsequent collection drafts are > easier to > > create. > > I was not intending to create a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC. > (Subscriptions would be at the application layer, rather than transport > layer, which is what PT-TLS is.) I'm not sure a generic subscription > mechanism for PA-TNC is really feasible since different types of > information will have different triggers and different transport > constraints. > > With regard to the generic names of the attributes: on a technical level, > there will be no ambiguity. The attributes defined in this specification > (with the exception of PA-TNC Error) are all part of the SWIMA PA Subtype. > (Basically, this serves as a namespace for all the attributes defined in > this specification.) Some other PA-TNC extension might conceivably define > their own "Subscription Status Request" attribute, but it would have a > different PA Subtype, so there would never be any confusion as to meaning. > True - a human might get confused; however, I think this is mitigated by > the fact that the attribute names really only are used within the context > of a specific PA TNC extension (e.g., within the SWIMA specification). Thus > I don't think there will be many practical opportunities for people to get > confused. As such, I'd prefer to keep the names as they are rather than to > make them even longer by prepending SWIMA or some other > specification-specific label. > [AWM] Thanks for your reasoning :-) > > Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. > > Charles > > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM Karen O'Donoghue > > wrote: > > > > > > Folks, > > > > This begins a 3 week working group last call (WGLC) for the > following > > document: > > > > Software Inventory Message and Attributes (SWIMA) for PA-TNC > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc/ > > > > We have chosen to do a 3 week WGLC to account for post IETF > > recovery and August vacations. > > > > Please review the referenced document and send any comments to > > the mailing list including your assessment of whether this document is > > mature enough to proceed to the IESG. Please note that these messages of > > support for progression to the mailing list will be used to determine WG > > consensus to proceed. > > > > Please send all comments in by Friday 18 August 2017. > > > > Thank you! > > Karen and Adam > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sacm mailing list > > sacm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm > > > > --001a113f6218ce1f610555eb7fee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to both of you for your responses...=C2=A0 I have m= y own inline. Please note that I'm heading out on vacation for two week= s, so my response time may lag a bit, but I will be checking in from time t= o time.



On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 10:42 AM Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org> wrote:
Hi Adam,

A few inline comments added to those made by Andreas. (And thanks to Andrea= s for his inputs.)

> Should we be referencing the NIST interagency report related to SWID o= r the
> ISO standard directly? The NIST document is more readily accessible, a= nd if
> they have parity, then we might gain points for referencing the freely=
> available resource.

The NIST and ISO documents are not equivalent. The NIST document describes = best practices for using and creating SWID tags, and someone could use that= and the freely available SWID tag XML schema to create compliant tags. How= ever, the ISO document remains the authoritative source for SWID tag compli= ance. As such, I feel most references should be made to the (authoritative)= ISO specification.

That said, it probably makes sense to add an informational reference to the= NIST specification for the reasons you mention.

> Is there a reason to mention TCG + NEA in the introduction? If we'= re looking
> at NEA, then let's just use NEA references and not the TCG ones fo= r, at least,
> the sake of consistency.

I think there are a few reasons to at least mention the relationship to TCG= 's TNC.
1) It emphasizes that there is alignment (rather than bifurcation) in these= standards.
2) It sends a reasonable call out to the TCG board, who agreed to support t= ransfer of this specification to the IETF.

That said, I can agree that Table 1 (which identifies equivalent components= in the two architectures) might be more than is necessary. If we drop Tabl= e 1 but retain the final paragraph of section 1.1 ("This document is b= ased on standards published by the Trusted Computing Group's Trusted Ne= twork Communications (TNC) workgroup. The TNC and NEA architectures are int= eroperable and many components are equivalent.") would this address yo= ur concern?


[AWM] This was less of a 'concern&= #39; than an observation (i.e. not a strenuous objection). If folks feel th= e table is worthwhile, then by all means keep it. If we can safely drop it = (i.e. remove it without losing the point of what we really want to convey),= then do that in the name of better communication.
=C2=A0
> Propose modified definition for SW-PC: A Posture Collector (PC) that c= ollects
> endpoint software inventory information and that conforms to this
> specification.
>
> Propose modified definition for SW-PV: A Posture Validator (PV) that > interprets SW Attributes sent by SW-PCs and that conforms to this
> specification.

I like the rewording.

> Propose modified definition for SW Attribute: A PA-TNC attribute that<= br> > conveys software inventory information. (NOTE: We should ensure that P= A-
> TNC is the NEA-specific term.)

In retrospect, I'm not sure I like this or what currently exists. There= are PA-TNC attributes that convey software information, but are not "= SW attributes". Moreover, (for reasons you noted) the requests don'= ;t convey software information, but need to be considered SW attributes for= the sake of this document. That term needs to refer specifically to the at= tributes that are defined in this specification. I propose:

SW Attribute - This is a PA-TNC attribute (as defined in RFC 5792 [RFC5792]= ) extension as defined in this specification.

[AWM] This seems acceptable, given that we need to work with terms d= efined elsewhere. Thanks for considering.
=C2=A0

> Propose renaming "SW Attribute" to "SWIMA Attribute&quo= t;, which seems more
> accurate. Take a look a the "SW Attribute" subtypes listed i= n section 5.2 to
> understand my motivation. Assuming "SW" expands to "sof= tware" (which is a
> reasonable presumption), then SW Request is not a SW Attribute. A SW > Attribute might be a configuration item that software contains, but no= t a SW
> Request. The SW Request attribute is used to request software inventor= y
> related information from an endpoint, and is thus more appropriately a= n
> attribute associated with SWIMA than with "software". If thi= s is acceptable,
> then we should update the term in section 10.1.
>
> Then, we may want to consider expanding "SW" to "SWIMA&= quot; wherever
> appropriate (i.e. SW Request could become SWIMA Request), which is lon= ger
> to type but also inarguably more clear.

Stephen's comments notwithstanding, I'm of two minds here. On the o= ne hand, SW Attribute (and SW-PC and SW-PV) are primarily characterized by = their conformance to the SWIMA specification, rather than just being softwa= re related. There are other NEA components that deal with software but are = not part of SWIMA and therefore would not be SW-PCs or SW Attributes accord= ing to our definitions, which I agree might be confusing. In that regard, S= WIMA-PC and SWIMA Attribute better capture the key characteristic of these = entities.

On the other hand, a "Software Inventory Message and Attributes Attrib= ute" seems a bit redundant.

Overall, I think I might be more inclined to go along with your suggestion = and change SW Attribute to SWIMA Attribute (and SW-PC to SWIMA-PC, etc.) be= cause it will better emphasize the key characteristic of these entities - t= hat they are conformant to the SWIMA specification. (Really looking forward= to a few hundred search and replace actions here....)

[AWM] Yes, it's a lot of search and replace, but in the= end I really think this will help future understandability and I appreciat= e the effort. And, thankfully, most folks are likely to simply pronounce th= e acronym "SWIMA" rather than spell it out (because it is, techni= cally, redundant).
=C2=A0

> On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to = generate
> Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in Section 6 o= f this
> document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID 2009 and SWID= 2015,
> but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? What about Linux dist= ribution
> package managers?

Adding on to Stephen's comments, I'll note that we intend SWIMA to = be extensible. If someone wished to report RPM records or other types of pa= ckages, they are welcome to do so. The just need to define an authoritative= way of deriving a Software Identifier from the record. However, I don'= t think we want to *require* support for such packages in all SW-PCs.=C2=A0=

[AWM] I was looking at this a bit differen= tly, I think. If there is a collector capable of expressing RPM packages, a= s an example, and they want to extend this to shuttle that information over= PT-TLS, then would they need to also collect 2009 and 2015 SWIDs? It seems= contrary to the point of having posture brokers. Maybe I'm missing som= ething.
=C2=A0

> What about discovered software outside typical
> installation patterns?

As Andreas notes, such software can still be represented using SWID tags. T= hey could also be represented using other record formats, as I note above.<= br>

[AWM] Do we need to mention how? If so,= is this the right place to do that?
=C2=A0

> And, does it make sense, in a brokered architecture like
> NEA, to require redundant capabilities in the anticipated myriad colle= ctors?

Not sure how this is "redundant". The group agreed that 2009 SWID= tags should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be sup= ported for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no control ov= er the nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 2009, SWI= D 2015, something completely different, or a combination thereof. SWIMA is = concerned with collection and conveyance of available information. Normaliz= ation of that information into one preferred record format is beyond the sc= ope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early conversations on SWIMA invo= lved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, none of which appea= r to "dominate" are target environment today.) Maybe SACM will ev= entually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA will be ready a= nd able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to support collection= and conveyance of whatever software records might be available.

[AWM] Maybe I should ask this way. Is the expecta= tion that RPM package management collectors, for example, would require a s= eparate specification for shuttling over PT-TLS, or that they would extend = this draft? If a separate specification, then I retract my comments, becaus= e then SWID data models aren't necessary. If an extension of this draft= , then my comment remains.
=C2=A0

> Are the subscription semantics of this draft intended to be extrapolat= ed to
> other types of information collection going over PT-TLS in the future?= This
> wasn't clear to me when reading the draft, but the IANA table addi= tions
> (section 10.2) relating to subscriptions appear to have names generic = enough
> to be reused. If that's the intent, then maybe we can figure out a= n easy way
> to clarify this in the draft, so that subsequent collection drafts are= easier to
> create.

I was not intending to create a generic subscription mechanism for PA-TNC. = (Subscriptions would be at the application layer, rather than transport lay= er, which is what PT-TLS is.) I'm not sure a generic subscription mecha= nism for PA-TNC is really feasible since different types of information wil= l have different triggers and different transport constraints.

With regard to the generic names of the attributes: on a technical level, t= here will be no ambiguity. The attributes defined in this specification (wi= th the exception of PA-TNC Error) are all part of the SWIMA PA Subtype. (Ba= sically, this serves as a namespace for all the attributes defined in this = specification.) Some other PA-TNC extension might conceivably define their = own "Subscription Status Request" attribute, but it would have a = different PA Subtype, so there would never be any confusion as to meaning. = True - a human might get confused; however, I think this is mitigated by th= e fact that the attribute names really only are used within the context of = a specific PA TNC extension (e.g., within the SWIMA specification). Thus I = don't think there will be many practical opportunities for people to ge= t confused. As such, I'd prefer to keep the names as they are rather th= an to make them even longer by prepending SWIMA or some other specification= -specific label.

[AWM] Thanks for your = reasoning :-)
=C2=A0

Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.

Charles

> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org
> <mailto:odo= noghue@isoc.org> > wrote:
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Folks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This begins a 3 week working group last call= (WGLC) for the following
> document:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Inventory Message and Attributes (S= WIMA) for PA-TNC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc/
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0We have chosen to do a 3 week WGLC to accoun= t for post IETF
> recovery and August vacations.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please review the referenced document and se= nd any comments to
> the mailing list including your assessment of whether this document is=
> mature enough to proceed to the IESG. Please note that these messages = of
> support for progression to the mailing list will be used to determine = WG
> consensus to proceed.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please send all comments in by Friday 18 Aug= ust 2017.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you!
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Karen and Adam
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____________________________________________= ___
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sacm mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sacm@ietf.org <mailto:sacm@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/sacm
>

--001a113f6218ce1f610555eb7fee-- From nobody Fri Aug 4 04:23:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693EA131D25 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B3-RB_Sonzu8 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x234.google.com (mail-it0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0D17126CC4 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x234.google.com with SMTP id v127so6612120itd.0 for ; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 04:23:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fHGi80rYwsKb94bCD6EY6uucCwNcObxRS3MyOKh5r20=; b=hQujl8NAI7XVH3srtuCDun8dqedJ8jk5f9Tm6YjQzCYrjX5McscHJATaP73B9JHPas 6iP3/RaxLGWCacP7PPMx0IKxN1Tqw/Ic3ErQPLB5sJwCX9DAMz91Sw6E5Ur38+8ltJjF S3HWgzb7ghbgAy0bY5l2yUQ59FystPYyEh+w7SsgAJXZpV4jq16C5mOHII55ptfkQMO5 XFOkRz2hyiuOK2+gyGqMvwgDlrDPBZClZ08jRt5QvLZsLjLOpaIxWLtpPGy11dl8goiU BX70dQNPiBw6zWxmi5Bl4j/tR/ohSwaUZlgTT2pmhTxWU5CBPp64eEc1KHquARKW7JNS Jtdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fHGi80rYwsKb94bCD6EY6uucCwNcObxRS3MyOKh5r20=; b=H7GktvKBhuNVESnjh2cNDjFB9zSguskAJiN7vVriVQuAOcT/baUFsy9Ed7IvjFzie2 T1M0PGO9a7VXeBFG8pwE/4EJKtgFf9QoPpsZHTCaM8Yagqz3Cj8Nc//bi+rZW/6Vwt4W zrRJqJ6UIeFiVi1JskmRRsWMy9l+U0QqCv+n6qvOm+PqgrrOZE6Y3WIJCGbWjxCELmMA 2rywl89dxHmUGvwi0L+qA9wmKSA5y72tCpidhTUxYEB/7PcyzsZTFHT9pMY3pb8SAw45 7VYfrNFst3WCCPCtSfZmMumtqVcP07HGdQKqrOVnV4zx0+getbksM9jPkwHxBBmRd3Rr L/rA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110W9IqN2TIUdTlDdZYGJCfSvqppbSGITwkdcGQOS14bBOwCXwyg vFoffhBv1QWrCDxDU5HcTUW0JitSkAcn X-Received: by 10.36.246.5 with SMTP id u5mr2038026ith.82.1501845826892; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 04:23:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Adam Montville Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:23:36 +0000 Message-ID: To: "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c034f1204fbfa0555ebbbb6" Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] Initial comments on ECP draft X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:23:49 -0000 --94eb2c034f1204fbfa0555ebbbb6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Now that the ECP draft has been marked as adopted, I'd like to make some comments. The draft seems primarily concerned with endpoint software inventory rather than collection of generic attribute state. The abstract doesn't limit the draft to software inventory, but other (obvious) statements in the draft certainly do. To me, this draft needs to more clearly articulate how other categories of endpoint state can be collected (doesn't SWIMA handle the software attributes a bit anyway)? For example, see the first bullet in 4.2.3. (non use cases). It seems that, given we have the SWIMA draft, that we should evolve ECP to be about the framework for collection - we should entertain collection of other types of posture information in this draft. Additionally, the last bullet in 4.2.3 talks about a pub/sub repository interface. I would like the group (perhaps as part of our IETF 100 hackathon efforts) to consider how XMPP grid may support this notion. Please change the reference to SANS "20 Critical Security Controls" to the current CIS Controls. Finally, 5.2 mentions: "Any PC used in an Endpoint Compliance Profile solution MUST be conformant with [IF-IMC]; an Internet-Draft, under development, that is a subset of the TCG TNC Integrity Measurement Collector interface [IF-IMC] and will be submitted in the near future." Which Internet-Draft is being referenced? If not yet available, I'd like to see this sooner rather than later, because it's going to be hard to fully evaluate ECP otherwise. Also, does the same apply for IF-IMV? Kind regards, Adam --94eb2c034f1204fbfa0555ebbbb6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Now that the ECP draft has been marked as adopted, I&= #39;d like to make some comments.

The draft seems = primarily concerned with endpoint software inventory rather than collection= of generic attribute state. The abstract doesn't limit the draft to so= ftware inventory, but other (obvious) statements in the draft certainly do.= To me, this draft needs to more clearly articulate how other categories of= endpoint state can be collected (doesn't SWIMA handle the software att= ributes a bit anyway)?=C2=A0

For example, see the = first bullet in 4.2.3. (non use cases). It seems that, given we have the SW= IMA draft, that we should evolve ECP to be about the framework for collecti= on - we should entertain collection of other types of posture information i= n this draft.

Additionally, the last bullet in 4.2= .3 talks about a pub/sub repository interface. I would like the group (perh= aps as part of our IETF 100 hackathon efforts) to consider how XMPP grid ma= y support this notion.

Please change the reference= to SANS "20 Critical Security Controls" to the current CIS Contr= ols.

Finally, 5.2 mentions: "Any PC used in a= n Endpoint Compliance Profile solution MUST be conformant with [IF-IMC]; an= Internet-Draft, under development, that is a subset of the TCG TNC Integri= ty Measurement Collector interface [IF-IMC] and will be submitted in the ne= ar future." Which Internet-Draft is being referenced? If not yet avail= able, I'd like to see this sooner rather than later, because it's g= oing to be hard to fully evaluate ECP otherwise. Also, does the same apply = for IF-IMV?

Kind regards,

Adam
--94eb2c034f1204fbfa0555ebbbb6-- From nobody Fri Aug 4 04:26:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1268C126CC4 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BR6ze0ljOsAu for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22a.google.com (mail-it0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B047131D31 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 04:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id v127so6976206itd.0 for ; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 04:26:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nkYAsqdxvJxR/FYxJ2niFiOSwmlwEI2pvTHtRbNbg3o=; b=Ir0zWzzAgTFS64QJ08SCGF38tGSsnIDCcOIH1fIsA5gRK+crqnZ9zRC+nPwZozcikK G3Nb0gsyZ/qnDr79SDg/lxycT0V9JrkSXJOzqaCYQ5TQmExvNcXXlrrh0Vicp35HjEMB XZ6PhHjvYpBvrk7ri3cScfM7EhpkbxcKsVqyOYIcuJQr/pBfLf+gimDvRv9UuzPgcYgd v0ujf20ILoECqrtZQuLVQDPBJ04McF3nj8tU3CpVQi5uGRSReR6riNcOWVVTRwvkACtW /OmUCcPXNxOLJZteemCCsggkCa0aJVceId5XItAOvuh/I10Ysp5Kr0HvFQUlRPfw3nMo m6ZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=nkYAsqdxvJxR/FYxJ2niFiOSwmlwEI2pvTHtRbNbg3o=; b=pKxUzr246DNnMQDMMFAWwJzuOMXG1oLqMMuF5ubXPJLIg5P+j4gnDyJYCO/9Vp9nVU TbHXYNbeIIQC9tZ1lXZrS1L9JmJK2zMcTjUwTBJv5B7Pyg+RisFiqLD9eNVLUTFMMFWw 5icV6GQejgDMJ+6SLVYgi7rFAEMJVCpHgVB4KmO3xp6PF4bq4oPe7B1WuDit7hoyPLd7 8zkQBQRmfFenDlrRfkVHzJ26DWaFacfqj7CJDl36JhNDll8nmtcMaAnhiUsGhY47Dvef 3jJKGrBxLl0qELhXMCLq+vRT7uN6rsmikTsQXmMEOcJOKVcmIgPM1vx2AFvPhHPh7cPT 4ePw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5j/qWRbXa5bRB+DtOGk8cJqYtctsqNpCpvHPnRg0kVhSV461mVn ULcTzQ/0TneEU5xSaN50AlSFXzjVbR2z X-Received: by 10.36.36.202 with SMTP id f193mr1745964ita.37.1501845961311; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 04:26:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:25:50 +0000 Message-ID: To: "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1147bc98080bb40555ebc311" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Hackathon Planning for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:26:04 -0000 --001a1147bc98080bb40555ebc311 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ping :-) I'll ping again in a week or two, so let's plan to start regular meetings in late August or (at the latest) early September. On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:45 AM Adam Montville wrote: > All: > > After our successful hackathon efforts at IETF 99, we would like to plan > for another, follow-on hackathon effort at IETF 100. The goal would be to > merge the two related IETF 99 efforts (see > https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/tree/master/ietf_99_hackathon > ). > > To this end, I think we should begin by establishing a regular meeting > cadence, similar to what we did in preparation for IETF 99. This time, > however, we could attempt one or two 30-minute meetings once per week. > > Thoughts? > > Karen pointed out that we may have more significant logistical challenges > with this hackathon, as Singapore may be a harder destination for folks to > reach. We'll work through it, and the challenge may end up working in our > favor. > > Kind regards, > > Adam > --001a1147bc98080bb40555ebc311 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ping :-)=C2=A0

I'll ping again in a= week or two, so let's plan to start regular meetings in late August or= (at the latest) early September.


On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:45 AM Adam Mon= tville <adam.w.montville@g= mail.com> wrote:
All:

After our successful hackathon efforts at IET= F 99, we would like to plan for another, follow-on hackathon effort at IETF= 100. The goal would be to merge the two related IETF 99 efforts (see=C2=A0= https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-s= cenario/tree/master/ietf_99_hackathon).=C2=A0

= To this end, I think we should begin by establishing a regular meeting cade= nce, similar to what we did in preparation for IETF 99. This time, however,= we could attempt one or two 30-minute meetings once per week.
Thoughts?

Karen pointed out that we m= ay have more significant logistical challenges with this hackathon, as Sing= apore may be a harder destination for folks to reach. We'll work throug= h it, and the challenge may end up working in our favor.

Kind regards,

Adam
=
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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2017 14:09:55.0494 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: c620dc48-1d50-4952-8b39-df4d54d74d82 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR09MB1186 X-OriginatorOrg: mitre.org X-MITRE: 8GQsMWxq66rxk57w Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:10:06 -0000 SGkgQWRhbSwNCg0KU291bmRzIGxpa2Ugd2UgYXJlIG1vc3RseSBhbGlnbmVkLiBJJ3ZlIHRyaW1t ZWQgdGhlIHBvaW50cyB3aGVyZSBpdCBsb29rcyBsaWtlIHdlIGFyZSBvbiB0aGUgc2FtZSBwYWdl IGFuZCByZXNwb25kZWQgaW5saW5lIHRvIHRoZSBvdGhlcnMuDQoNCj4gCT4gT24gUGFnZSAxNSB0 aGUgZHJhZnQgc3RhdGVzICJBbGwgU1ctUENzIE1VU1QgYXQgbGVhc3QgYmUgYWJsZSB0bw0KPiBn 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To: Henk Birkholz , "sacm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc Thread-Index: AQHTDHO8uLw9oAXzxUisKaNV92w1n6J0Pubw Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 14:25:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=cmschmidt@mitre.org; x-originating-ip: [192.160.51.86] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR09MB1186; 6:KooG9uY5r0CDd3TGvN/GvkPabUjs0A1p1ah/TFwpFMqvVuNq6fGZ2vwe/htbNbWXzGSlmtxL0lcsT4rojFF/g7LqptBotusBjUBHgbUSOiE9bDiY0AkAnaNn7FeRRU2IFAwb3GgOZUpwXyto7P+koS7nlhz1uRjFYV58DVm/MPRIKeNhQ4lNHkSyEntkGmkPLyqOMkVM5G+AP13WNaGDUb95RhhcTDK0OBlZJBHCsT8oo5WpkG+VBKxhEpUfZaL/wMvoTRXXSD+7W2DW6RoO6xyn6bSKAFyW/HUkTPEVwZoS8Oqh9H3mYMqtfuBGNzFOIb0vyuxtco3g3l2BF1nhLQ==; 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(Fed)" To: Ruben Oliva , "cmschmidt@mitre.org" , "adam.w.montville@gmail.com" , Karen O'donoghue , "sacm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc Thread-Index: AQHTB6+FzaVaLou9b0eM0Yv7igddP6JuXXgAgARxUACAAL1XAIAAvI2A Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 14:41:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <15dab2f5cf5-5f57-22e8@webprd-m32.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <15dab2f5cf5-5f57-22e8@webprd-m32.mail.aol.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=david.waltermire@nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.224.58] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; MWHPR09MB1437; 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DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z-ND-clKA3PM for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22b.google.com (mail-io0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D7B6131EB3 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id j32so7700173iod.0 for ; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=AHe9XybKLYV7vvUTN+iL+lq/nf3LqULo5GpbKs/J9D0=; b=tTtuK0FmtxHT84xCrD/5kO1AiWhn2hT7lxAuahSWX7iFOcot/fNxIconvPTa6tyT3+ ESPcsi/dNMpGcu6jZd+t4e18Xty2kIdAwYKwxfpFZ26vpKjLyQQT2Eg73lNc53j1ed5r DCjDq8V6m0+VYqNIWY8SAUJkcv2d65fu8a1D3WrNloFhHv58PV9kG68GbQo10OImXmdU ImKrM3p56k5KFuyPK4a8ztYgGW9vDRVAw31COxtryop2HEkgcXKBZULOfrNHGDJSc6T/ t0fCjOQEdUI6MzuIuDr7YEv8izcq/NlnZDGKqs4JsTO8V3Uy8HWlmBXHLHULtJXx0HPY TNpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=AHe9XybKLYV7vvUTN+iL+lq/nf3LqULo5GpbKs/J9D0=; b=Vwz5NFKqAYQ0LEAzvcHrMr0nxINRHnDV6vi3RXBMCW3gskGcllWsNABKVKcBAmveBT KmSExdOnpxAEL51MeIBSfFfHnkTz3rOYEa6m/omb39bmK3u8WoUjNgPN6Mb2eK7ANBRE EasASt1Qsq0Du/NL/rZ8ti13nl/7BNl0ZVrCO7b1tbVYkvjpYBIpGETzmb5X4KN6qR+x UdmLIuLPADDn/EFEWRBBPsCFFaGoJLoZwti3B7dVVKf3YKqcuyUHvqHdtdviciLxKEQn xbBDLR/NzSGnKIDBNWgMJffREIEMT/3p2BYs9FkA8Q/ioLaMcgQHVCmbvhTy/ljLBEa/ /R9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5idaTFvs/QOdIBX3a8fITuEGa65n8dTnRAq4F3jxBz7TdrfBydr yb0oavwYgLBU+OdGV6aCJxgVbwCwQQ== X-Received: by 10.107.37.140 with SMTP id l134mr3014703iol.182.1501863316358; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 09:15:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 16:15:05 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Schmidt, Charles M." , "Karen O'Donoghue" , "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11405e24790d870555efcdab" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 16:15:20 -0000 --001a11405e24790d870555efcdab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I think I'm all set, Charles, thanks for your patience. :-) On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 9:10 AM Schmidt, Charles M. wrote: > Hi Adam, > > Sounds like we are mostly aligned. I've trimmed the points where it looks > like we are on the same page and responded inline to the others. > > > > On Page 15 the draft states "All SW-PCs MUST at least be able to > > generate > > > Software Identifiers for the data model types specified in > Section 6 > > of this > > > document." Section 6 describes data models for SWID 2009 and > > SWID 2015, > > > but nothing else. Is this really what we desire? What about Linux > > distribution > > > package managers? > > > > Adding on to Stephen's comments, I'll note that we intend SWIMA to > > be extensible. If someone wished to report RPM records or other types of > > packages, they are welcome to do so. The just need to define an > > authoritative way of deriving a Software Identifier from the record. > > However, I don't think we want to *require* support for such packages in > all > > SW-PCs. > > > > [AWM] I was looking at this a bit differently, I think. If there is a > collector > > capable of expressing RPM packages, as an example, and they want to > > extend this to shuttle that information over PT-TLS, then would they > need to > > also collect 2009 and 2015 SWIDs? It seems contrary to the point of > having > > posture brokers. Maybe I'm missing something. > > > I think that this stems from confusion about what "MTI" means for records > in SWIMA. SWIMA never requires that any given type of record be collected > from an endpoint. An endpoint might have hundreds of SWID tags on it, but a > compliant SWIMA specification might never touch them and instead choose to > gather some other indicator of software installation. (For example, a SWIMA > implementation might feel that RPM records are likely to be more complete > and accurate than any SWID tags that might get installed across the > endpoint.) The SWIMA specification is explicit that it only requires > collection to be done in an internally consistent manner (i.e., it cannot > use one source in one report and ignore that source in a subsequent report) > but it never requires the use of any specific source of information. In > short, a SWIMA implementation can make use of whatever information is > available in whatever way it chooses, provided that it uses those sources > consistently. > > All the MTI requirement means is that every compliant SWIMA-PC MUST know > how to take any 2009 or 2015 SWID tag it does collect (*if* it collects any > at all) and deterministically derive a standard Software Identifier from > that record. The issue this tries to address is that we would need a > one-to-one mapping between information records describing software and the > Software Identifier that is the shorthand for the described software. > Unfortunately, there are lots of ways to do such a mapping, so there could > be variation across implementations as to how a given piece of software is > represented by a Software Identifier. By making 2009 and 2015 SWID tags > MTI, all we are doing is ensuring that every SWIMA implementation will have > the same one-to-one mapping between a given tag and its Software > Identifier. This means that, at least for SWID tags, two collectors (from > different vendors) will use the same Software Identifier for the same SWID > tag, and thus those Identifiers can be directly compared. > > This might get at your "redundancy" comment too - if MTI meant "required > collection", then yes, requiring both types of tags be collected could be > redundant. However, that is not the requirement. All the MTI statement > requires is that SWIMA implementations are universally consistent in their > mapping of 2009 and 2015 SWID tags to Software Identifiers. I don't think > that is redundant - it is just better covering the bases. > > > > What about discovered software outside typical > > > installation patterns? > > > > As Andreas notes, such software can still be represented using SWID > > tags. They could also be represented using other record formats, as I > note > > above. > > > > [AWM] Do we need to mention how? If so, is this the right place to do > that? > > > If you are talking about "how to convert to a SWID tag", I think that is > beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Maybe if SACM decides someday to endorse SWID > tags as the official record format for software information, that might be > reasonable, but for now I think it would be premature.) > > If you are talking about how to represent records other than SWID tags > within SWIMA messages, I'm not sure that is necessary because the > specification itself is completely generic. We just talk about records and > Software Identifiers. > > > > And, does it make sense, in a brokered architecture like > > > NEA, to require redundant capabilities in the anticipated myriad > > collectors? > > > > Not sure how this is "redundant". The group agreed that 2009 SWID > > tags should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be > > supported for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no > control > > over the nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 2009, > > SWID 2015, something completely different, or a combination thereof. > > SWIMA is concerned with collection and conveyance of available > information. > > Normalization of that information into one preferred record format is > > beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early > conversations > > on SWIMA involved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, none > > of which appear to "dominate" are target environment today.) Maybe SACM > > will eventually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA will > be > > ready and able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to support > collection > > and conveyance of whatever software records might be available. > > > > [AWM] Maybe I should ask this way. Is the expectation that RPM package > > management collectors, for example, would require a separate > specification > > for shuttling over PT-TLS, or that they would extend this draft? If a > separate > > specification, then I retract my comments, because then SWID data models > > aren't necessary. If an extension of this draft, then my comment remains. > > > See my earlier comment about redundancy - if this is related to concerns > about require collection of records, SWIMA never imposes such a requirement. > > To answer your question, no - ideally we would hope that those collectors > would not use a separate PA-TNC binding. In fact, no extension of this > draft is necessary for RPM package manifests to be used directly in SWIMA. > Any representation of installed software can be directly conveyed by SWIMA. > Of course, if that representation hasn't been standardized in the IANA > table, then two different vendors might identify that data model > differently and use a different algorithm to derive Software Identifiers > from those records, making direct comparison between their findings more > challenging, but at least within that vendor's product space there would be > no problem. (The advantage of the IANA table entries, is that the data > model type identifier of the record will be the same across all > implementations and the algorithm to derive the Software Identifier will be > the same, allowing any such records to be directly compared across vendor > boundaries.) > > So, in the current draft, any vendor could declare that an RPM manifest > entry was a utilized Data Model Type, create a way to create a Software > Identifier from each manifest entry, and start sending those to a consumer > via SWIMA with no extensions necessary. Of course, vendor 2 might do the > same thing, but would use a different type identifier and Software > Identifier algorithm. In either case, however, the information is collected > and delivered. > > Does this address your questions? > > Thanks, > Charles > --001a11405e24790d870555efcdab Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think I'm all set, Charles, thanks for your patience= . :-)

On Fri, Aug 4, 201= 7 at 9:10 AM Schmidt, Charles M. <cmschmidt@mitre.org> wrote:
Hi Adam,

Sounds like we are mostly aligned. I've trimmed the points where it loo= ks like we are on the same page and responded inline to the others.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> On Page 15 the draft states "All S= W-PCs MUST at least be able to
> generate
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Software Identifiers for the data model= types specified in Section 6
> of this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> document." Section 6 describes dat= a models for SWID 2009 and
> SWID 2015,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> but nothing else. Is this really what w= e desire? What about Linux
> distribution
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> package managers?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Adding on to Stephen's comments, I'l= l note that we intend SWIMA to
> be extensible. If someone wished to report RPM records or other types = of
> packages, they are welcome to do so. The just need to define an
> authoritative way of deriving a Software Identifier from the record. > However, I don't think we want to *require* support for such packa= ges in all
> SW-PCs.
>
> [AWM] I was looking at this a bit differently, I think. If there is a = collector
> capable of expressing RPM packages, as an example, and they want to > extend this to shuttle that information over PT-TLS, then would they n= eed to
> also collect 2009 and 2015 SWIDs? It seems contrary to the point of ha= ving
> posture brokers. Maybe I'm missing something.

<CMS>
I think that this stems from confusion about what "MTI" means for= records in SWIMA. SWIMA never requires that any given type of record be co= llected from an endpoint. An endpoint might have hundreds of SWID tags on i= t, but a compliant SWIMA specification might never touch them and instead c= hoose to gather some other indicator of software installation. (For example= , a SWIMA implementation might feel that RPM records are likely to be more = complete and accurate than any SWID tags that might get installed across th= e endpoint.) The SWIMA specification is explicit that it only requires coll= ection to be done in an internally consistent manner (i.e., it cannot use o= ne source in one report and ignore that source in a subsequent report) but = it never requires the use of any specific source of information. In short, = a SWIMA implementation can make use of whatever information is available in= whatever way it chooses, provided that it uses those sources consistently.=

All the MTI requirement means is that every compliant SWIMA-PC MUST know ho= w to take any 2009 or 2015 SWID tag it does collect (*if* it collects any a= t all) and deterministically derive a standard Software Identifier from tha= t record. The issue this tries to address is that we would need a one-to-on= e mapping between information records describing software and the Software = Identifier that is the shorthand for the described software. Unfortunately,= there are lots of ways to do such a mapping, so there could be variation a= cross implementations as to how a given piece of software is represented by= a Software Identifier. By making 2009 and 2015 SWID tags MTI, all we are d= oing is ensuring that every SWIMA implementation will have the same one-to-= one mapping between a given tag and its Software Identifier. This means tha= t, at least for SWID tags, two collectors (from different vendors) will use= the same Software Identifier for the same SWID tag, and thus those Identif= iers can be directly compared.

This might get at your "redundancy" comment too - if MTI meant &q= uot;required collection", then yes, requiring both types of tags be co= llected could be redundant. However, that is not the requirement. All the M= TI statement requires is that SWIMA implementations are universally consist= ent in their mapping of 2009 and 2015 SWID tags to Software Identifiers. I = don't think that is redundant - it is just better covering the bases.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> What about discovered software outside = typical
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> installation patterns?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As Andreas notes, such software can still be= represented using SWID
> tags. They could also be represented using other record formats, as I = note
> above.
>
> [AWM] Do we need to mention how? If so, is this the right place to do = that?

<CMS>
If you are talking about "how to convert to a SWID tag", I think = that is beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Maybe if SACM decides someday to endors= e SWID tags as the official record format for software information, that mi= ght be reasonable, but for now I think it would be premature.)

If you are talking about how to represent records other than SWID tags with= in SWIMA messages, I'm not sure that is necessary because the specifica= tion itself is completely generic. We just talk about records and Software = Identifiers.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> And, does it make sense, in a brokered = architecture like
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> NEA, to require redundant capabilities = in the anticipated myriad
> collectors?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Not sure how this is "redundant". = The group agreed that 2009 SWID
> tags should be supported for legacy reasons, while 2015 tags should be=
> supported for future compliance. In general, SWIMA has virtually no co= ntrol
> over the nature of the records on the endpoint - they might be SWID 20= 09,
> SWID 2015, something completely different, or a combination thereof. > SWIMA is concerned with collection and conveyance of available informa= tion.
> Normalization of that information into one preferred record format is<= br> > beyond the scope of SWIMA. (Deliberately so, since our early conversat= ions
> on SWIMA involved a lot of holy wars about preferred record formats, n= one
> of which appear to "dominate" are target environment today.)= Maybe SACM
> will eventually get behind a single format, and when they do SWIMA wil= l be
> ready and able to convey it. Until then, SWIMA's goal is to suppor= t collection
> and conveyance of whatever software records might be available.
>
> [AWM] Maybe I should ask this way. Is the expectation that RPM package=
> management collectors, for example, would require a separate specifica= tion
> for shuttling over PT-TLS, or that they would extend this draft? If a = separate
> specification, then I retract my comments, because then SWID data mode= ls
> aren't necessary. If an extension of this draft, then my comment r= emains.

<CMS>
See my earlier comment about redundancy - if this is related to concerns ab= out require collection of records, SWIMA never imposes such a requirement.<= br>
To answer your question, no - ideally we would hope that those collectors w= ould not use a separate PA-TNC binding. In fact, no extension of this draft= is necessary for RPM package manifests to be used directly in SWIMA. Any r= epresentation of installed software can be directly conveyed by SWIMA. Of c= ourse, if that representation hasn't been standardized in the IANA tabl= e, then two different vendors might identify that data model differently an= d use a different algorithm to derive Software Identifiers from those recor= ds, making direct comparison between their findings more challenging, but a= t least within that vendor's product space there would be no problem. (= The advantage of the IANA table entries, is that the data model type identi= fier of the record will be the same across all implementations and the algo= rithm to derive the Software Identifier will be the same, allowing any such= records to be directly compared across vendor boundaries.)

So, in the current draft, any vendor could declare that an RPM manifest ent= ry was a utilized Data Model Type, create a way to create a Software Identi= fier from each manifest entry, and start sending those to a consumer via SW= IMA with no extensions necessary. Of course, vendor 2 might do the same thi= ng, but would use a different type identifier and Software Identifier algor= ithm. In either case, however, the information is collected and delivered.<= br>
Does this address your questions?

Thanks,
Charles
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Karen. I was expecting the IESG Secretary to post an announcement sometime this week. FWIW, here is the Doodle poll result: https://doodle.com/poll/7p5h2gzr7k9psaq9 Also, the October poll results are here: https://doodle.com/poll/uucnbi55ivmirg97 On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 3:59 PM Karen O'Donoghue wrote: > I haven=E2=80=99t seen this on the working group mailing list=E2=80=A6 > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *Adam Montville > *Subject: **September SACM Virtual Interim* > *Date: *August 5, 2017 at 8:01:57 AM EDT > *To: *"iesg-secretary@ietf.org" , Kathleen > Moriarty , Karen ODonoghue < > odonoghue@isoc.org> > > > The Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (SACM) working group > will hold a virtual interim meeting on September 26 at 9:00am Eastern > (1:00pm UTC), which will run for two hours (WebEx information below). > > The proposed agenda for this meeting is as follows: > > * Working group status > * Existing work disposition/open issues > * IETF 100 Hackathon discussion > > Meeting number: 315 397 161 > Meeting password: ZvbnkSkb > Meeting link: > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm81f9e39aeab704389ec5336b5dc1019= 3 > > Audio connection: > 1-877-668-4493 <(877)%20668-4493> Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) > 1-650-479-3208 <(650)%20479-3208> Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > > > _______________________________________________ > sacm mailing list > sacm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm > --001a113fef6855e2b905561e565a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Karen. I was expecting the IESG Secretary to post a= n announcement sometime this week.

FWIW, here is the Doo= dle poll result:=C2=A0= https://doodle.com/poll/7p5h2gzr7k9psaq9

Also,= the October poll results are here:=C2=A0https://doodle.com/poll/uucnbi55ivmirg97
<= br>


On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 3:59 PM Karen O'Donoghue <odonoghue@isoc.org> wrote:
I haven=E2=80=99t seen this on the working group mailing list=E2=80=A6=C2= =A0

Begin forwarded message:

From: Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com>
Subject: September SACM Virtual Interim
Date: August 5, 2017 at 8:01:57 AM EDT
<= div>

The Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (SACM) working group= will hold a virtual interim meeting on September 26 at 9:00am Eastern (1:0= 0pm UTC), which will run for two hours (WebEx information below).

The proposed agenda for this meeting is as follows:

=C2=A0 * Working group status
=C2=A0 * Existing work disposition/open issues
=C2=A0 * IETF 100 Hackathon discussion

Meeting number: 315 397 161
Meeting password: ZvbnkSkb

Audio connection:
1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

_______________________________________________
sacm mailing list
sacm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm
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Thread-Topic: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc Thread-Index: AQHTDzk5zaVaLou9b0eM0Yv7igddPw== Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 04:54:17 +0000 Message-ID: <9F2CC6FD-105E-4467-BF68-D76809BA188B@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.248.50] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 04:54:44 -0000 SGksDQoNCk5vdCBiZWluZyBmYW1pbGlhciB3aXRoIFNXSURzIGFuZCB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZ2V0IHRo 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To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , Karen O'Donoghue , "sacm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc Thread-Index: AQHTDzk5K7iMuJXSJEi0GWGKglgzCaJ49vow Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 16:59:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9F2CC6FD-105E-4467-BF68-D76809BA188B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9F2CC6FD-105E-4467-BF68-D76809BA188B@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=cmschmidt@mitre.org; x-originating-ip: [192.80.55.87] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR09MB1187; 6:w1UlMHUanrebIzfDdVmqp5LGxb1HB9xOYonQgwUnIhwuoQ/FPS8SCVWvxXVXxGQxbOCuZXgFgyrX1Ar0A381XA0PADXry43t9ufHMlzxRLhP+UiVDboF2hThIydjJmT6oRX6w89W+7aohSRNwxFXR16PF601Pha+Nxw5vlTFqOM/KA+JtmJxyJ0vzqI5phtfz9JQhBTOBHJpF8cpSIUi3d5qpwIGSEI1MUx+quHwIKF/7bZNiI8Crj3gOLsZlzglDLK7Aqh2pnLmSKgWceBVl1NNAm07AwVIn2TXRUOCc3IFyU0lsdN0AYrBPPiPl6rqm8ykMZkB7vKhkW8DC/sejg==; 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FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: mitre.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Aug 2017 16:59:36.6697 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: c620dc48-1d50-4952-8b39-df4d54d74d82 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR09MB1187 X-OriginatorOrg: mitre.org X-MITRE: 8GQsMWxq66rxk57w Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 16:59:43 -0000 SGkgTmFuY3ksDQoNClRoYW5rcyBhIGJ1bmNoIGZvciB0aGUgY29tbWVudHMuIFJlc3BvbnNlcyBp 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietf.org Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7365513262D; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 12:31:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: sacm-chairs@ietf.org, sacm@ietf.org, odonoghue@isoc.org, The IESG , Karen O'Donoghue , draft-ietf-sacm-requirements@ietf.org, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <150213429846.18988.8029535197777814313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:31:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] Document Action: 'Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (SACM) Requirements' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-18.txt) X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 19:31:39 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (SACM) Requirements' (draft-ietf-sacm-requirements-18.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Kathleen Moriarty and Eric Rescorla. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-requirements/ Technical Summary This document defines the scope and set of requirements for the Secure Automation and Continuous Monitoring (SACM) architecture, data model and transport protocols. The requirements and scope are based on the agreed upon use cases. Working Group Summary The working group has consensus to publish this document. They have decided that they would like it published as an informational draft, as planned from the working group inception. There preference was this over use of a wiki or an expired draft. Document Quality The document sets forth the requirements for SACM, as such there are no implementations of this draft. Personnel Karen O'Donoghue is the Document Shepherd and Kathleen Moriarty is the Responsible Area Director. From nobody Mon Aug 7 12:43:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7838313263C for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CmXnoEQ7Wn7n for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 12:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.strongswan.org (sitav-80046.hsr.ch [152.96.80.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 565B51324E1 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 12:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.116.172.154] (183.226.197.178.dynamic.wless.zhbmb00p-cgnat.res.cust.swisscom.ch [178.197.226.183]) by mail.strongswan.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 026EE4048D; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 21:43:53 +0200 (CEST) To: "Schmidt, Charles M." , "sacm@ietf.org" References: <9F2CC6FD-105E-4467-BF68-D76809BA188B@cisco.com> Cc: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , Karen O'Donoghue From: Andreas Steffen Message-ID: <8795b44a-0d37-312b-0643-be073143722c@strongswan.org> Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 21:43:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms060201040704010407070103" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 19:43:31 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060201040704010407070103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Charles, I fully agree with your statements and explanations. Kind regards Andreas On 07.08.2017 18:59, Schmidt, Charles M. wrote: > Hi Nancy, >=20 > Thanks a bunch for the comments. Responses inline: >=20 >> My general read of this was that it would be a SWIDs mapping to either= a >> particular data model to adhere to SACM and/or that it would use the N= EA >> data model and transfer using PA-TNC and PB-TNC. Is that correct? I = do not >> get that impression from Section 3, so am somewhat confused. >=20 > A few points: SWIMA is not SWID-specific. (The first drafts were, but i= t has since changed to support an extensible list of software inventory r= ecords, of which SWIDs are one possible record type.)=20 >=20 > Also, NEA does not have a single data model. Instead, the PA protocol i= s a "lightweight wrapper" for a set of attributes to be exchanged. These = attributes are intended to be extensible to allow a growing set of bindin= gs to be defined, each of which define their own conditions for Collector= s and Validators, and each of which support their own network attributes = and data model.=20 >=20 > So what you describe is not, in fact, the goal of SWIMA. SWIMA defines = a NEA PA extension that defines new attributes and Collector/Validator be= haviors to manage the collection and delivery of software inventory infor= mation. > =20 >> Here are some comments thus far: >> If indeed the draft is about extending the PA-TNC model to include >> SWIDs=E2=80=A6This can limit the scalability and deployment use cases;= per section >> 2.1.3 of RFC 7632, as it states there is desire to =E2=80=9Ccollect a = set of attribute >> values related to one or more endpoints=E2=80=9D. >=20 > I'm confused by what you mean here. SWIMA is not intended it single-han= dedly fulfill this requirement. It does, however, move towards fulfillmen= t of this requirement by enabling appropriate collection of software inve= ntory information. Thus there is no limiting of the SACM use cases. >=20 >> - As there are no references to the TNC standards (and those have >> been absorbed in NEA), >> I suggest to remove the last paragraph and Table 1 of Section 1.1 >=20 > I agree the table is unnecessary. I do believe it is appropriate to ret= ain the final paragraph to recognize that SWIMA came from TCG work and th= at this derivation is not a bifurcation. >=20 >> Section 1.1 >> =E2=80=9CThe attributes defined in this document are used to >> communicate software inventory evidence, collected from a range of >> possible sources, from the posture collector on the endpoint to the= >> posture validator on a NEA Server using the PA-TNC interface, as >> shown in Figure 1 below.=E2=80=9D >> - =E2=80=9CPosture collector on the endpoint=E2=80=9D, >> why does the collector need to be on an endpoint? >=20 > The NEA specification (RFC 5209) states that Posture Collectors are on = NEA Clients, which is a type of endpoint. Is there anything that is not a= n endpoint on which you think there should be a posture collector? >=20 >> Section 2, specifically 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 If the definition is to define= a set of PA- >> TNC attributes; they are meant to be carried thru the NEA model; as su= ch the >> recipient MUST be a NEA Server or at minimum a Posture Validator as th= at is >> the component that can accept NEA=E2=80=99s Posture Attributes. I=E2=80= =99m not sure these >> 2 sections are needed as they have to map to the NEA architecture whic= h is >> described in 2.1.3 >=20 > 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 are intended to outline the specific purpose of the ext= ension of the PA-TNC specification that creates SWIMA. In other words, th= ey identify why SWIMA was created. The three use cases identified in PA T= NC are:=20 > - Initial Client-Triggered Assessment - Client sends information when r= equesting to join a network > - Server-Initiated Assessment with Remediation - Verifier requests info= rmation from the client. > - Client-Triggered Reassessment - Client detects a situation where it n= eeds to push updated information to the server. >=20 > All of these represent cases under which PA-TNC can operate. SWIMA supp= orts these cases as well. They don't talk about the same thing as 2.1.1 o= r 2.1.2, though. 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 identify the uses of software inventory = information supported by SWIMA; the PA-TNC use cases identify the cases u= nder which information might be exchanged in general. These are non-overl= apping and complementary. >=20 >> Section 2.2: is this section necessary? There are many more use cases= not >> supported, so would opt to remove this section. >=20 > I believe this is helpful because these address likely areas of confusi= on. Yes, this is not an exhaustive list of unsupported use cases. However= , a reasonable reader might initially assume that SWIMA includes guidance= for converting software inventory into a single data model (for example)= =2E This section would make it clear that conversion of information is ou= tside the scope of SWIMA. >=20 >> Section 2.3: There must be normative language to make these requiremen= ts. >=20 > These are not requirements to implementers. These are design requiremen= ts for the specification itself. This is why these are not normative. >=20 >> Also, it would be best suited to have this section also set in the con= text of the >> SACM requirements and reference the requirements enumerated in the >> soon to be published https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-= >> requirements/ draft >=20 > I'll have to think about that, but my gut response is that the SWIMA re= quirements and the SACM requirements are not the same thing. SWIMA certai= nly must conform to SACM requirements, but it does not need to completely= fulfill them - SWIMA is one part of a larger solution. The SWIMA require= ments, in turn, are intended to focus just on SWIMA itself, and thus go b= eyond SCAP requirements. Even when they align (e.g., requirement for inte= roperability) they are not talking about the same thing. SWIMA interopera= bility just means that the protocols allow SWIMA-PV and SWIMA-PCs from di= fferent vendors to talk to each other, not that the information collected= by SWIMA be useable across the entire SACM architecture. The bottom line= is that, despite the common use of the term "requirements", my initial f= eeling is that these are not alike enough for a mapping to be usefully in= structive. Do you have specific mappings that you feel would be appropria= te? >=20 >> Section 2.5: What does it mean to =E2=80=9Cprovide reliable delivery=E2= =80=9D? Does this >> imply TCP vs UDP? >=20 > This is intended to mean that, if one party sends a message, the other = party will either receive it or the sender will know it was not received.= I'll add a clarification to that effect since, upon a quick search, it l= ooks like there is no formal definition of the term.=20 >=20 > It does not require any particular way of accomplishing reliable delive= ry (e.g., TCP) - just that reliable delivery is required. >=20 >> Section 3.2 The beginning of the draft and title infers that this draf= t is a >> mapping for NEA, which does define its own data model=E2=80=A6so how c= an these >> map to =E2=80=9Can open set of data models=E2=80=9D? >=20 > NEA does not define a single data model. It defines a framework which c= an be used to support an extensible list of attributes, each of which can= support their own data model. >=20 > In 3.2, the term "data model" refers not to the attributes, but to the = way that a software inventory record is expressed. I should probably clar= ify that. "Open" set is probably the wrong word; I should probably say "E= xtensible" set. This reflects that SWIMA can convey records using any inv= entory record structure and imposes no limits on those structures. >=20 >> Editorial >> >> Section: Introduction >> Awkward sentence: =E2=80=9CWhen reported endpoint >> software installation inventory lists, shortened to "software >> inventories" for the remainder of this document, contain patch leve= l >> data for identified software, further comparison to vulnerability o= r >> threat alerts can be used to determine an endpoint's exposure to >> attack. =E2=80=9C >> >> If I understand the intent, I suggest: =E2=80=9CEndpoint software inst= allation >> inventory lists (hereinafter =E2=80=9Csoftware inventories=E2=80=9D) >> can further be used to determine an endpoint=E2=80=99s >> exposure to attack based on comparison to vulnerability or threat aler= ts >> against >> identified software=E2=80=99s patch level data.=E2=80=9D >=20 > Yeah - my sentence is overly convoluted. Your suggestion is a big impro= vement. Thank you. >=20 >> Section 1.3 =E2=80=9CSoftware Identifier=E2=80=9D has a first referenc= e to SWIMA that should >> be referenced first; >> e.e. Software Inventory Message Attributes (SWIMA). >=20 > Per Adam's suggestion, I'll be using "SWIMA" to label a lot more things= =2E I'll add a definition of this term to the introduction so we are cove= red for the document. >=20 >> More to come soon, >> Nancy >=20 > Great! Thanks a bunch for the feedback. >=20 > Charles >=20 >> On 7/28/17, 7:40 AM, "sacm on behalf of Karen O'Donoghue" > bounces@ietf.org on behalf of odonoghue@isoc.org> wrote: >> >> Folks, >> >> This begins a 3 week working group last call (WGLC) for the follow= ing >> document: >> >> Software Inventory Message and Attributes (SWIMA) for PA-TNC >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc/ >> >> We have chosen to do a 3 week WGLC to account for post IETF recove= ry >> and August vacations. >> >> Please review the referenced document and send any comments to the= >> mailing list including your assessment of whether this document is mat= ure >> enough to proceed to the IESG. Please note that these messages of supp= ort >> for progression to the mailing list will be used to determine WG conse= nsus to >> proceed. >> >> Please send all comments in by Friday 18 August 2017. >> >> Thank you! >> Karen and Adam >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sacm mailing list >> sacm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm > _______________________________________________ > sacm mailing list > sacm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm >=20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Andreas Steffen andreas.steffen@strongswan.org strongSwan - the Open Source VPN Solution! www.strongswan.org Institute for Networked Solutions HSR University of Applied Sciences Rapperswil CH-8640 Rapperswil (Switzerland) 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietf.org Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1370D131CE6; Tue, 8 Aug 2017 06:51:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: sacm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150220030698.12388.15608969030648703035@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 06:51:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (sacm) WG Virtual Meeting: 2017-09-26 X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 13:51:47 -0000 The Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (sacm) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2017-09-26 from 09:00 to 11:00 America/New_York (1:00pm UTC), which will run for two hours (WebEx information below). Agenda: * Working group status * Existing work disposition/open issues * IETF 100 Hackathon discussion Meeting number: 315 397 161 Meeting password: ZvbnkSkb Meeting link: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m81f9e39aeab704389ec5336b5dc10193 Audio connection: 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Information about remote participation: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m81f9e39aeab704389ec5336b5dc10193 From nobody Tue Aug 8 06:55:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietf.org Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4D913235F; Tue, 8 Aug 2017 06:55:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: sacm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150220054239.12403.819679935012901378@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 06:55:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (sacm) WG Virtual Meeting: 2017-10-23 X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 13:55:42 -0000 The Security Automation and Continuous Monitoring (sacm) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2017-10-23 from 08:00 to 10:00 America/New_York (12:00pm UTC), which will run for two hours (WebEx information below). Agenda: The proposed agenda for this meeting is as follows: * Working group status * Existing work disposition/open issues * IETF 100 Hackathon discussion Meeting number: 316 813 822 Meeting password: c2SvYCxX Meeting link: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mbdd8f1b5c4d4790bc3ec94e22eedbb7a Audio connection: 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Information about remote participation: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mbdd8f1b5c4d4790bc3ec94e22eedbb7a From nobody Fri Aug 11 10:38:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C5512711B for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:38:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N0XYXAeI22sK for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x229.google.com (mail-vk0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B215131CA2 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x229.google.com with SMTP id n125so15780338vke.1 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:38:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=VPHCd7WVWAINqDxrCV8PXVgRD4FRGF7ihSS3OJdegtk=; b=BYDvdLQyUlrlBOufk3uomxRo3GIDc/IGNiR49ABEaY4v8ZLy0mRm0THOHpPB6oZMx7 9RzGb1PyWpCdZgy3Mhk6ezlJaKG/V8++fM0f1XsNRnywCMwcXBrM6s/vudw3yLkcsYZE 5uEpYO23o91ycSJjkoF/laJ/Q7EsDkrRz3AtJIn5qOu2Wf0uAHmkYZoUqBmqNRQ7ZiLJ 0Afar1wTTvfmWGzfRMtIitGv4HMhmGJYGyQGke6S0Z1MGA2S+2/79nQAqc8MP9olnZD6 tNIfsy8A+E8p55KnoSUS80fVrhQK07+I3s6A+4gakIMc8brFXtd+h81RDfWBJurlcakt fzNw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=VPHCd7WVWAINqDxrCV8PXVgRD4FRGF7ihSS3OJdegtk=; b=FsKdllVb+iC8+PMHZ8ohA0O2kpW7lfyTfxlORgHFfjwyjGaZPMfAXcE81q2gtm+PSe 8dvMFRDV8qUrxnavKWe8T1NGiXZIIGtZFr6UM+SNdCgWJALLqMwyKjrmOnVhYi4wEYN8 ANNHCWT8E5ZKY3NMD+CvL+8rCAfSUMTASw5UAxNnBqsOjD5btBPFrdYBWSNHlpGVc5kA eazEXwZut+cps2iDqPk5UeGfGWNt8avDO8K6d56kg1BDrleG+sMwk1zgWXJHXnqg6nYw 661e7KeC3/ImBeSrD/9Y2dAOEVOPHyQxhX9wkK3brHtrXzBkGLg3HwknlPMvlI9ZQJ/O UJ+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gtL1P9x5hl/teQ9wfuzRNTlhHL7dtTAl3RSjn5O+QLkOt5IJdT FovOFyXXqXJ5CJnT3gQkStV8j7E2eA== X-Received: by 10.31.61.198 with SMTP id k189mr11377729vka.134.1502473107496; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:38:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.77.96 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:38:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:38:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: Adam Montville , "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114dac06db648905567dc724" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Initial comments on ECP draft X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 17:38:31 -0000 --001a114dac06db648905567dc724 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Adam, Thanks for your comments. I agree, the draft would do well to be up-leveled. We can drop the SWIMA requirement, and maybe describe it as an example of an implementation of a collector. What do you think? We might do well to genericize the collection capability over all, really. NEA is a good mechanism to collect event-driven data from a client or a server, but there are others (for example, yang push). Regarding the pub/sub repository interface, I agree. It would be a great opportunity at IETF 100. I will definitely update the Controls reference. Thanks for catching that. We put IF-IMC and IF-IMV on hold during the SWIMA work. We could revive that effort, but I would like to be sure there is interest from the group before doing so. IF-IMC and IF-IMV improve coordination of communication between collectors and client, and between verifiers and servers, respectively. They have been implemented in strongSwan, so were likely a part of the hackathon effort at IETF 99. Andreas, am I correct there? Thanks, Jess On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Adam Montville wrote: > Now that the ECP draft has been marked as adopted, I'd like to make some > comments. > > The draft seems primarily concerned with endpoint software inventory > rather than collection of generic attribute state. The abstract doesn't > limit the draft to software inventory, but other (obvious) statements in > the draft certainly do. To me, this draft needs to more clearly articulate > how other categories of endpoint state can be collected (doesn't SWIMA > handle the software attributes a bit anyway)? > > For example, see the first bullet in 4.2.3. (non use cases). It seems > that, given we have the SWIMA draft, that we should evolve ECP to be about > the framework for collection - we should entertain collection of other > types of posture information in this draft. > > Additionally, the last bullet in 4.2.3 talks about a pub/sub repository > interface. I would like the group (perhaps as part of our IETF 100 > hackathon efforts) to consider how XMPP grid may support this notion. > > Please change the reference to SANS "20 Critical Security Controls" to the > current CIS Controls. > > Finally, 5.2 mentions: "Any PC used in an Endpoint Compliance Profile > solution MUST be conformant with [IF-IMC]; an Internet-Draft, under > development, that is a subset of the TCG TNC Integrity Measurement > Collector interface [IF-IMC] and will be submitted in the near future." > Which Internet-Draft is being referenced? If not yet available, I'd like to > see this sooner rather than later, because it's going to be hard to fully > evaluate ECP otherwise. Also, does the same apply for IF-IMV? > > Kind regards, > > Adam > > _______________________________________________ > sacm mailing list > sacm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm > > --001a114dac06db648905567dc724 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ad= am,

Thanks for your comments. I agree, the draft would do well to be up-leveled.=20 We can drop the SWIMA requirement, and maybe describe it as an example=20 of an implementation of a collector. What do you think?

We might do well to genericize the collection capability over all, really. NEA is a good mechanism to collect event-driven data from a client or a se= rver,=20 but there are others (for example, yang push).

Regarding the pub/sub repository interface, I agree. It would be a great opportunity= at IETF 100.

I will definitely update the Controls reference. Thanks for catchi= ng that.

We put IF-IMC and IF-IMV on hold during the SWIMA work. We could revive=20 that effort, but I would like to be sure there is interest from the=20 group before doing so. IF-IMC and IF-IMV improve coordination of=20 communication between collectors and client, and between verifiers and=20 servers, respectively. They have been implemented in strongSwan, so were likely a part of the hackathon effort at IETF 99. Andreas, am I correct there?

Thanks,
Jess

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that the ECP draft has been marked as a= dopted, I'd like to make some comments.

The dr= aft seems primarily concerned with endpoint software inventory rather than = collection of generic attribute state. The abstract doesn't limit the d= raft to software inventory, but other (obvious) statements in the draft cer= tainly do. To me, this draft needs to more clearly articulate how other cat= egories of endpoint state can be collected (doesn't SWIMA handle the so= ftware attributes a bit anyway)?=C2=A0

For example= , see the first bullet in 4.2.3. (non use cases). It seems that, given we h= ave the SWIMA draft, that we should evolve ECP to be about the framework fo= r collection - we should entertain collection of other types of posture inf= ormation in this draft.

Additionally, the last bul= let in 4.2.3 talks about a pub/sub repository interface. I would like the g= roup (perhaps as part of our IETF 100 hackathon efforts) to consider how XM= PP grid may support this notion.

Please change the= reference to SANS "20 Critical Security Controls" to the current= CIS Controls.

Finally, 5.2 mentions: "Any PC= used in an Endpoint Compliance Profile solution MUST be conformant with [I= F-IMC]; an Internet-Draft, under development, that is a subset of the TCG T= NC Integrity Measurement Collector interface [IF-IMC] and will be submitted= in the near future." Which Internet-Draft is being referenced? If not= yet available, I'd like to see this sooner rather than later, because = it's going to be hard to fully evaluate ECP otherwise. Also, does the s= ame apply for IF-IMV?

Kind regards,

=
Adam

_______________________________________________
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sacm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


--001a114dac06db648905567dc724-- From nobody Fri Aug 11 11:37:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC860132190 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:37:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HNjn_BUySobW for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.strongswan.org (sitav-80046.hsr.ch [152.96.80.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A856131CEA for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.10.1.15] (46-126-238-39.dynamic.hispeed.ch [46.126.238.39]) by mail.strongswan.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C876400CA; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:38:05 +0200 (CEST) To: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay , Adam Montville , "sacm@ietf.org" References: From: Andreas Steffen Message-ID: <598DF96A.3000408@strongswan.org> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms090204060208040605010605" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Initial comments on ECP draft X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 18:37:38 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090204060208040605010605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jess, of course the IF-IMC and IF-IMV interfaces were used to exchange SWIMA messages between the SWIMA collector and the PB-TNC client as well as between SWIMA verifier and the PB-TNC server. Regards Andreas On 11.08.2017 19:38, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote: > We put IF-IMC and IF-IMV on hold during the SWIMA work. We could revive= > that effort, but I would like to be sure there is interest from the > group before doing so. IF-IMC and IF-IMV improve coordination of > communication between collectors and client, and between verifiers and > servers, respectively. They have been implemented in strongSwan, so wer= e > likely a part of the hackathon effort at IETF 99. Andreas, am I correct= > there? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Andreas Steffen andreas.steffen@strongswan.org strongSwan - the Open Source VPN Solution! www.strongswan.org Institute for Networked Solutions University of Applied Sciences Rapperswil CH-8640 Rapperswil (Switzerland) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[INS-HSR]=3D=3D --------------ms090204060208040605010605 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC 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cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Aug 2017 20:48:35 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:48:34 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:48:34 -0400 From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" To: "Schmidt, Charles M." , "Karen O'Donoghue" , "sacm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sacm] WGLC for draft-ietf-sacm-nea-swima-patnc Thread-Index: AQHTDzk5zaVaLou9b0eM0Yv7igddP6J5YbQAgArK54A= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 20:48:34 +0000 Message-ID: <982B6BB4-9D8C-4C19-BBF3-096BBFE6D94C@cisco.com> References: <9F2CC6FD-105E-4467-BF68-D76809BA188B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 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Lg0KICAgIA0KICAgIENoYXJsZXMNCiAgICANCiANCg0K From nobody Tue Aug 22 09:37:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113CC1323B4 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:37:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.24 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.24 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.059, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FOPjYWtagtJ0 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:37:23 -0700 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list X-GitHub-Sender: adammontville X-GitHub-Recipient: sacm X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: sacm@ietf.org Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] [sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario] IETF 99 Hackathon X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:37:25 -0000 ----==_mimepart_599c5dc2d2702_78503f922653fc30709c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Creating a release to capture the point where we left off IETF 99 hackathon efforts and started working on IETF 100. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. View it on GitHub: https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/releases/tag/0.1 ----==_mimepart_599c5dc2d2702_78503f922653fc30709c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Creating a release to capture the point where we left off IETF 99 hackathon efforts and started working on IETF 100.

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----==_mimepart_599c5dc2d2702_78503f922653fc30709c-- From nobody Tue Aug 22 09:51:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48FE13213D for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UIkAi8VpgemF for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22b.google.com (mail-it0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04DCC13213F for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id x187so26928230ite.1 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:51:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=zA1MqC/69ZgqU9Vj6CtBpudlFqZPBRWly7wsaoLJbIM=; b=AUN/HR52xKVyACD11RG/5lb7jCC+2nl102hdXC1IlFgrPv5Hcpb4YAZB8y3Qg9evWp l1QL1ERmvSz4Cc34kL2WfkQi1E8664EB6oD2S1t8NLaU2qU8D8cub7dwrPSWxNgyj4ln lNykpmhstnsRw0npUnSEYBSDWOfS0BplgLqV/HFpf7zt0ccW2pIZNBioJ5SuexllOQLp GK9dWsYgwa8MzaTTSWWf18iqKiWJ1b4sjJYmy7T1nsh4BFlSfNVZt4r9CK7YGKs4HkHZ FNS3ldnb1xjyb9pArANRHpFsCnc/AG2NfAauEJVfIBHLwc4WyimCfIU+eRfHiPzJISM3 g7bA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=zA1MqC/69ZgqU9Vj6CtBpudlFqZPBRWly7wsaoLJbIM=; b=r4cB4r0o600VnWfw2wVxb8PR7eU+ychkIJKQ0PPHABtWMhcxe3MXGjoQc4NqvLDquu kUCM+fRO6d2+fAx8M1ovwpmDTWvOcUw93+7e/Gd5v84ZX+J/nRB5iy3n7nvJxUL8zrMc tSqnI8E2cKISJshzHec0aU83iD2m97ySysvCiukBcUzgpOBpEi+V0Nh4Cb+3/gU9cE+H pfcmcJFnAzAr82FSQwMMaSu7TMGH7fGW1PaRmqNT+sTJh2xGkUAsmV77ZW+LJnlaWXzF VNaYsrfc3x6hlKUF6RN6sjoG4UE7zO7unxGhRJJu5k8lQZrNi6Jqi0pzs71OJdD2ETF8 O8Wg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jAlW4amS82YtVl+w7Mh7QpWC9jDssFLyaGBGCT02S9c8X652rb b+bvysdXS85qz8j0vfwFf8GUMYjVMPA6 X-Received: by 10.36.3.79 with SMTP id e76mr554428ite.66.1503420661958; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:51:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:50:51 +0000 Message-ID: To: "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11419c5c810e5305575a66d2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Hackathon Planning for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:51:06 -0000 --001a11419c5c810e5305575a66d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" All: You may have noticed some notes about changes made to our vulnerability scenario repository. I renamed the "ietf_99_hackathon" directory to "ietf_hackathon" then tagged that repository state as "0.1". This "pre-release" is intended to capture the repository state before we begin updating it for IETF 100... In support of the IETF 100 hackathon, I created a new project. Finally, this note also serves as a gentle reminder that we should start getting this planning and work under way. If no one has any thoughts on whether two 30-minute sessions would be better than one 1-hour session, on a weekly basis, by the end of the day on Thursday, then I'll send out a Doodle polls for two 30-minute sessions on Friday. Kind regards, Adam On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:25 AM Adam Montville wrote: > Ping :-) > > I'll ping again in a week or two, so let's plan to start regular meetings > in late August or (at the latest) early September. > > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:45 AM Adam Montville < > adam.w.montville@gmail.com> wrote: > >> All: >> >> After our successful hackathon efforts at IETF 99, we would like to plan >> for another, follow-on hackathon effort at IETF 100. The goal would be to >> merge the two related IETF 99 efforts (see >> https://github.com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/tree/master/ietf_99_hackathon >> ). >> >> To this end, I think we should begin by establishing a regular meeting >> cadence, similar to what we did in preparation for IETF 99. This time, >> however, we could attempt one or two 30-minute meetings once per week. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Karen pointed out that we may have more significant logistical challenges >> with this hackathon, as Singapore may be a harder destination for folks to >> reach. We'll work through it, and the challenge may end up working in our >> favor. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Adam >> > --001a11419c5c810e5305575a66d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All:

You may have noticed some notes ab= out changes made to our vulnerability scenario repository. I renamed the &q= uot;ietf_99_hackathon" directory to "ietf_hackathon" then ta= gged that repository state as "0.1". This "pre-release"= is intended to capture the repository state before we begin updating it fo= r IETF 100...

In support of the IETF 100 hackathon= , I created a new project.

Finally, this note also= serves as a gentle reminder that we should start getting this planning and= work under way.=C2=A0

If no one has any thoughts = on whether two 30-minute sessions would be better than one 1-hour session, = on a weekly basis, by the end of the day on Thursday, then I'll send ou= t a Doodle polls for two 30-minute sessions on Friday.

=
Kind regards,

Adam

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:25 AM Adam Montv= ille <adam.w.montville@gma= il.com> wrote:
Ping :-)=C2=A0

I'll ping again in a week or two,= so let's plan to start regular meetings in late August or (at the late= st) early September.


On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:45 AM = Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail.com> wrote:
All:

After our successfu= l hackathon efforts at IETF 99, we would like to plan for another, follow-o= n hackathon effort at IETF 100. The goal would be to merge the two related = IETF 99 efforts (see=C2=A0https://github.= com/sacmwg/vulnerability-scenario/tree/master/ietf_99_hackathon).=C2=A0=

To this end, I think we should begin by establish= ing a regular meeting cadence, similar to what we did in preparation for IE= TF 99. This time, however, we could attempt one or two 30-minute meetings o= nce per week.

Thoughts?

K= aren pointed out that we may have more significant logistical challenges wi= th this hackathon, as Singapore may be a harder destination for folks to re= ach. We'll work through it, and the challenge may end up working in our= favor.

Kind regards,

Ada= m
--001a11419c5c810e5305575a66d2-- From nobody Wed Aug 23 06:38:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F967132C12 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:38:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d_oQt7yZLpNX for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x232.google.com (mail-it0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A266132518 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x232.google.com with SMTP id x187so701090ite.1 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:38:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PUSI1HPLZCLbpXKVS9/V1QSqeIpTMnQySHxhfUvg24s=; b=nwaXcjv7tfnekiVHFgHod5fJQ637PmrAiWeWpOe4kPFKAC5LPqOb/fU3T7lu8GKsBn BbFHbkp8dTo+PtyY757tJm2WXWwZOQ4qLCD4pzKgqrG25eMfZjfF6auqBMVDiFKdGAho G/i46aLnLN4D6y2Wn/Pw8xpSYEOzqLAZplapZsHnuPDdITul69En5HQSIOTJHuN+RkCo 000ZhZZfYNWEF9XdRTrJFsGCY+bK0FWoZKH5ewdhLUyWcV8HTh+39/enpeaVpMoiGD8a icglJ20hagKBMT2zhzBC7CotU0FZKvBY60uqBMi1sn2veh7jQsgR5eRd/wHmfYBiMESG F1Kw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=PUSI1HPLZCLbpXKVS9/V1QSqeIpTMnQySHxhfUvg24s=; b=GVgxwI3iMAXc8kNIsgDo6veTDtM410ex9gjOmx1DjNrZEEhXFuRRHmzag4cTQ9ISUz GMaDZLfqOSRj0998HrdacZqAERsTuw5AG+trRHZKcLKVkh+NphngOrt1hs6StpRe2Vkg X5xKb7Z1GNMJwZS4hbftLe9KJb9xKadwNhhCveut9mGcdmeCg59SujA3Zs5eJXbWY104 R0qcucyfcXLhTazH1BU8V1HWVH3xbcjjoCxMgeqqbUa6lUov4V0Z4jLnyPXjYD6jmrKj v06VXBIqzloAkYfzjtgXxI1JoDaGrzJQCEz1Z2wFN1JTvfFX05cGmu3bancN51A2uCM7 nMzg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jtiL4BFIe5q0xXHfMBbiw06T/+tAB5vs5g7WZc5DAAOjQIiSl4 ENtKg2pkr8jfxaOFRco5HGTmutko/K0b X-Received: by 10.36.209.133 with SMTP id w127mr3233653itg.124.1503495516358; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:38:25 +0000 Message-ID: To: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay , "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0af9ae2c8d3805576bd47c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sacm] Initial comments on ECP draft X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:38:39 -0000 --94eb2c0af9ae2c8d3805576bd47c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I think all of this is on the table if we up-level the draft. Other comments inline. On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:38 PM Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay < jmfmckay@gmail.com> wrote: > Adam, > > Thanks for your comments. I agree, the draft would do well to be > up-leveled. We can drop the SWIMA requirement, and maybe describe it as an > example of an implementation of a collector. What do you think? > [AWM] I like it, what do others think is reasonable? > > We might do well to genericize the collection capability over all, really. > NEA is a good mechanism to collect event-driven data from a client or a > server, but there are others (for example, yang push). > [AWM] Making the generic collection framework explicit is important, and we should design toward accepting other forms of collection now and in the future. > > Regarding the pub/sub repository interface, I agree. It would be a great > opportunity at IETF 100. > [AWM] I've had very little response to my calls to get an IETF 100 hackathon effort under way - hoping that it's summer vacation (I know I fell into that bucket) > > I will definitely update the Controls reference. Thanks for catching that. > [AWM] Any time. > > We put IF-IMC and IF-IMV on hold during the SWIMA work. We could revive > that effort, but I would like to be sure there is interest from the group > before doing so. IF-IMC and IF-IMV improve coordination of communication > between collectors and client, and between verifiers and servers, > respectively. They have been implemented in strongSwan, so were likely a > part of the hackathon effort at IETF 99. Andreas, am I correct there? > [AWM] I think this may be answered as we look to up-level ECP? > > Thanks, > Jess > > On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Adam Montville > wrote: > >> Now that the ECP draft has been marked as adopted, I'd like to make some >> comments. >> >> The draft seems primarily concerned with endpoint software inventory >> rather than collection of generic attribute state. The abstract doesn't >> limit the draft to software inventory, but other (obvious) statements in >> the draft certainly do. To me, this draft needs to more clearly articulate >> how other categories of endpoint state can be collected (doesn't SWIMA >> handle the software attributes a bit anyway)? >> >> For example, see the first bullet in 4.2.3. (non use cases). It seems >> that, given we have the SWIMA draft, that we should evolve ECP to be about >> the framework for collection - we should entertain collection of other >> types of posture information in this draft. >> >> Additionally, the last bullet in 4.2.3 talks about a pub/sub repository >> interface. I would like the group (perhaps as part of our IETF 100 >> hackathon efforts) to consider how XMPP grid may support this notion. >> >> Please change the reference to SANS "20 Critical Security Controls" to >> the current CIS Controls. >> >> Finally, 5.2 mentions: "Any PC used in an Endpoint Compliance Profile >> solution MUST be conformant with [IF-IMC]; an Internet-Draft, under >> development, that is a subset of the TCG TNC Integrity Measurement >> Collector interface [IF-IMC] and will be submitted in the near future." >> Which Internet-Draft is being referenced? If not yet available, I'd like to >> see this sooner rather than later, because it's going to be hard to fully >> evaluate ECP otherwise. Also, does the same apply for IF-IMV? >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Adam >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sacm mailing list >> sacm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm >> >> > --94eb2c0af9ae2c8d3805576bd47c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think all of this is on the table if we up-level the dra= ft. Other comments inline.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:38 PM Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay <jmfmckay@gmail.com> wrote:
Adam,

Thanks for your comments. I agree, the draft would do well to be up-leveled.=20 We can drop the SWIMA requirement, and maybe describe it as an example=20 of an implementation of a collector. What do you think?

[AWM] I like it, what do others think is rea= sonable?

=C2=A0
=

We might do well to genericize the collection capability over all, really. NEA is a good mechanism to collect event-driven data from a client or a se= rver,=20 but there are others (for example, yang push).

[AWM] Making the generic collection framework ex= plicit is important, and we should design toward accepting other forms of c= ollection now and in the future.
=C2=A0

Regarding the pub/sub repository interface, I agree. It would be a great opportunity= at IETF 100.

[AWM] = I've had very little response to my calls to get an IETF 100 hackathon = effort under way - hoping that it's summer vacation (I know I fell into= that bucket)
=C2=A0

I will definitely update the Controls = reference. Thanks for catching that.

[AWM] Any time.
=C2=A0

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">We put IF-IMC and IF-IMV on hold during the SWIMA work. We could revive=20 that effort, but I would like to be sure there is interest from the=20 group before doing so. IF-IMC and IF-IMV improve coordination of=20 communication between collectors and client, and between verifiers and=20 servers, respectively. They have been implemented in strongSwan, so were likely a part of the hackathon effort at IETF 99. Andreas, am I correct there?

[AWM] I think= this may be answered as we look to up-level ECP?
=C2=A0

Th= anks,
Jess

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Adam Montville <<= a href=3D"mailto:adam.w.montville@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">adam.w.montv= ille@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that the ECP draft has been marked as adopted, I'd like to= make some comments.

The draft seems primarily con= cerned with endpoint software inventory rather than collection of generic a= ttribute state. The abstract doesn't limit the draft to software invent= ory, but other (obvious) statements in the draft certainly do. To me, this = draft needs to more clearly articulate how other categories of endpoint sta= te can be collected (doesn't SWIMA handle the software attributes a bit= anyway)?=C2=A0

For example, see the first bullet = in 4.2.3. (non use cases). It seems that, given we have the SWIMA draft, th= at we should evolve ECP to be about the framework for collection - we shoul= d entertain collection of other types of posture information in this draft.=

Additionally, the last bullet in 4.2.3 talks abou= t a pub/sub repository interface. I would like the group (perhaps as part o= f our IETF 100 hackathon efforts) to consider how XMPP grid may support thi= s notion.

Please change the reference to SANS &quo= t;20 Critical Security Controls" to the current CIS Controls.

Finally, 5.2 mentions: "Any PC used in an Endpoint Co= mpliance Profile solution MUST be conformant with [IF-IMC]; an Internet-Dra= ft, under development, that is a subset of the TCG TNC Integrity Measuremen= t Collector interface [IF-IMC] and will be submitted in the near future.&qu= ot; Which Internet-Draft is being referenced? If not yet available, I'd= like to see this sooner rather than later, because it's going to be ha= rd to fully evaluate ECP otherwise. Also, does the same apply for IF-IMV?

Kind regards,

Adam

____________________________________= ___________
sacm mailing list
sacm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sacm


--94eb2c0af9ae2c8d3805576bd47c-- From nobody Fri Aug 25 07:55:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEE3132980 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:55:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W7rpDCAT0esV for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from github-smtp2b-ext-cp1-prd.iad.github.net (github-smtp2-ext3.iad.github.net [192.30.252.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1B30132992 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:55:19 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1503672919; bh=8b19BBymRqux9y9imomC/Mw7zADGzNvKWsUF2U9is0c=; h=From:To:Subject:From; b=USq+UzLbMmK/JyNj3asM9pCAVaEHIrnWu7I/AzLW87chpNfJSFObLw4Z3tsER4OIn WfeQqFbvq6ljTXTJURbEGQjI6LcJBjzOoYPbvGB9Nkw2k+NuxGNkPfNZR7NuiRMdYR n2r2cg69mYwUoGO87zdzRg1t8HGaOxBcpa+u5UKY= From: GitHub To: sacm@ietf.org Message-ID: <59a03a57c50d7_66f3fe75cb93c2c25216d@github-lowworker7-cp1-prd.iad.github.net.mail> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] [GitHub] Subscribed to 2 sacmwg repositories X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 14:55:22 -0000 Hey there, we=E2=80=99re just writing to let you know that you=E2=80=99ve= automatically started watching several repositories on GitHub. You=E2=80=99ll receive notifications for all issues, pull requests, and c= omments that happen inside the repository. If you would like to stop watc= hing any of these repositories, you can manage your settings here: https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-ecp/subscription https://github.com/sacmwg/draft-ietf-sacm-rolie-softwaredescriptor/subs= cription You automatically watched these repositories because you=E2=80=99ve been = given access to them. Thanks! From nobody Fri Aug 25 08:29:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sacm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1DD132A27 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:29:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JPcYCE3uYzni for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22c.google.com (mail-it0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DDC51321D8 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id n5so767787itb.1 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:29:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lhQYiNGJbRVKXMl66kxUbcjZCAqLZ/bUheCnTfrPuI0=; b=r2PxjbPUXe+Ijhv65rWFTxyAotf4wwVBXYjGs32RSmHGguEuqBNOFp/oHP8QPuLYXd cieEFrIW5D0gEr/1rKQJ7ytlJlft7T8ug6P8gY44Hh+CciLguKEx2UDZhvnSeVCfpNrF qdn9lNcJxJXwHpVTzeZU6MxuMHm1tNX5B6Jiyo8q/sQ9aNkkJX+5enofQNnPrMo6HwcC 9WMh5L/ez58ePHTFrrIP2uNLwWLNP/7ry5LLzxKeHQwz4q8MSanm0T9UzO9Bbgefhhsn euJVmiDMpvaeQGYzU2k/0JgUQnYNMuqFHR5z8n5Zoc0NkvsFS21JAlu+/GuubR4hSXzI wtzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lhQYiNGJbRVKXMl66kxUbcjZCAqLZ/bUheCnTfrPuI0=; b=iw8bPiYAgq70Ucwtw+bDkURh5OxqJAsGGw7/VghOm3ai5DR01dXj4SLMJnG63Utzs7 U/3VfkIZbTPOhFj68Kxq4GpZVNZdqjlX9IxN4pX6rZZvU0YFTqGP7QV99QbS5cWEPQRb 9o2Ov9nLcgN/NrA8fYgI2vy0YQU9vR0Dejsgy5iLk/U60gaZOywVEqBFV8opOTUkAl2/ ddiE33UspXp3Q4yLoeH7wrl5my+NjjB/ZwfiKj6HBY5PWdrkdxJrhtcVQzuiVE62kmkd U48n4ItonWZqLrVYQVT8Ckpqr2Z9oCKAC/gC5vCmfVDh0w2rH9Er7wJMTRnNxWQqWl/O jkWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5h2E4CB1aiq4PtF1TfX4GrskGuDYXmtnQPGqA+07nrXIn86iz2o iyHJ74rYLjJqRU304VbluG4n31hdgqZD X-Received: by 10.36.103.203 with SMTP id u194mr2422333itc.27.1503674976120; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:29:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Adam Montville Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 15:29:24 +0000 Message-ID: To: "sacm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11484d06cf36340557959c54" Archived-At: Subject: [sacm] IETF 100 Hackathon Planning Session Doodle Polls X-BeenThere: sacm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SACM WG mail list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 15:29:39 -0000 --001a11484d06cf36340557959c54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi. Hope you're all having a great week. If you'd like to participate in the IETF 100 hackathon, please participate in the following two Doodle polls. The first poll will select a *weekly* time for a 30-minute session at the beginning of each week, and the second poll will select a *weekly* time for a similar 30-minute session at the end of each week. The idea is to, each week, have two 30-minute sessions rather than one hour-long session. Session 1 Poll: https://doodle.com/poll/t7949qekm8bczuca Session 2 Poll: https://doodle.com/poll/v3hzppcufy3iwx52 It'd be great to hold our first session early in the week of September 11, so let's close this poll on 9/1. Kind regards, Adam --001a11484d06cf36340557959c54 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi.

Hope you're all having a great = week. If you'd like to participate in the IETF 100 hackathon, please pa= rticipate in the following two Doodle polls. The first poll will select a *= weekly* time for a 30-minute session at the beginning of each week, and the= second poll will select a *weekly* time for a similar 30-minute session at= the end of each week. The idea is to, each week, have two 30-minute sessio= ns rather than one hour-long session.=C2=A0

Sessio= n 1 Poll:=C2=A0https:/= /doodle.com/poll/t7949qekm8bczuca=C2=A0

Sessio= n 2 Poll:=C2=A0https:/= /doodle.com/poll/v3hzppcufy3iwx52=C2=A0

It'= ;d be great to hold our first session early in the week of September 11, so= let's close this poll on 9/1.

Kind regards,

Adam


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