From dmm@1-4-5.net Thu Nov 1 07:17:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C9921F8CE9 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:17:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.357 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RFN7RohEfLdt for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BEEE21F8ABB for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wc20so3236992obb.13 for ; Thu, 01 Nov 2012 07:17:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=0B6vDf7UUu0mr+eRIsxbfaF85iBmRUI9/LAvghdwE0k=; b=Fx8KNLTw2SYPVVVoXYYkOvqz4pqLTRCr8IUWcW8v33hEOrMr7UVp7V2toWP3SRfD5N XOKE7Amw2mLAaOGFrtMXIk94VbixUmzSNA2F3gC1b7koZOX4iZElVBHncYe/e+HXEroo o4IhxGGgBLLW6ohaQv9qPx4IjDCKqkuSBFn+nzcrwasDR40swP6qHeUJL3LU9rnqNOTc K0uypQn4IWjRHHGTsnz3RIlGSor7EtoQE4cErgtp3kKF3P7mbEXCm663UvbuR4RP9uTI rYKBYvHdpMvNscMQnUt1zTG8yBOxxxCgg3tPtkTc5fYt1h94URcFDrOIH6Etq3mEi6YX Jbbg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.169.20 with SMTP id aa20mr35296956oec.105.1351779422899; Thu, 01 Nov 2012 07:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.130.44 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:17:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [12.184.104.214] Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:17:02 -0700 Message-ID: From: David Meyer To: sdn@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54d49a6510ed104cd6fac56 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkhm7XT1VBWH6tlsz/0hK2V+3DXjtWBTdMCiQXauqWDTEwgWm2Lt2hB0gOO9EiHw1PvI9C2 Subject: [Sdn] Please help the NomCom by providing feedback on the candidates X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:17:04 -0000 --bcaec54d49a6510ed104cd6fac56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Folks, Please help provide community feedback to NomCom in evaluating candidates for open positions. Please see email below for more instructions. Thnx, --dmm -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Help the NomCom: Community Feedback Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 20:13:18 -0700 From: NomCom Chair To: Working Group Chairs The IETF Nominations Committee (NomCom) continues to seek input from the IETF Community. The NomCom would greatly appreciate any help you could provide in making members of your working group aware of ways in which they can provide valuable feedback to the NomCom. In order to ensure that your input is received in time to be useful, the NomCom needs to receive community feedback on or before Sunday, November 4. The final list of candidates (as per RFC 5680) that the NomCom is considering for open positions can be found at: https://www.ietf.org/group/**nomcom/2012/input/ The NomCom will be holding office hours during IETF 85, Monday- Thursday from 1:00pm to 3:00pm in Room 305. The NomCom welcomes comments on specific individuals, as well as general feedback related to any of the positions that NomCom is considering. Note: A list of leadership positions that the NomCom is considering can be found at: https://www.ietf.org/group/**nomcom/2012/ If the NomCom office hours are inconvenient for you or if you cannot attend IETF 85, the NomCom is happy to take community input via email to nomcom12@ietf.org. Additionally, the NomCom is happy to arrange a meeting outside of office hours, just send us email and we can set something up. Comments on specific candidates can also be provided to the NomCom via the web feedback tool: https://www.ietf.org/group/**nomcom/2012/input/ Thank you for your help, - Matt Lepinski nomcom-chair@ietf.org --bcaec54d49a6510ed104cd6fac56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Folks,
<= br>
Please help provide community feedback = to NomCom in evaluating
candidates for open positions. =A0Please see email below for more
instructions.

Thnx, --dmm


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Help the NomCom: Community Feedback
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 20:13:18 -0700
From: NomCom Chair <nomcom-chair@ietf.org>
To: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>

The IETF Nominations Committee (NomCom) continues to seek input from
the IETF Community. The NomCom would greatly appreciate any help you
could provide in making members of your working group aware of ways in
which they can provide valuable feedback to the NomCom.

In order to ensure that your input is received in time to be useful, the NomCom needs to receive community feedback on or before Sunday, November 4.=

The final list of candidates (as per RFC 5680) that the NomCom is
considering for open positions can be found at:
https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/input/

The NomCom will be holding office hours during IETF 85, Monday-
Thursday from 1:00pm to 3:00pm in Room 305. The NomCom welcomes
comments on specific individuals, as well as general feedback related to any of the positions that NomCom is considering.

Note: A list of leadership positions that the NomCom is considering can be<= br> found at: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/

If the NomCom office hours are inconvenient for you or if you cannot
attend IETF 85, the NomCom is happy to take community input via email
to nomcom12@ietf.org= . Additionally, the NomCom is happy to arrange a
meeting outside of office hours, just send us email and we can set
something up.

Comments on specific candidates can also be provided to the NomCom
via the web feedback tool:
https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/input/

Thank you for your help,
- Matt Lepinski
=A0 nomcom-chair= @ietf.org

--bcaec54d49a6510ed104cd6fac56-- From diego@tid.es Sun Nov 4 10:41:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25FC21F84C8 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:41:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JdKBzt-ew3pv for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:41:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from correo-bck.tid.es (correo-bck.tid.es [195.235.93.200]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6163421F84D3 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:41:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbrightmailg02.hi.inet (Sbrightmailg02.hi.inet [10.95.78.105]) by tid.hi.inet (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0MCZ00BDX7WA19@tid.hi.inet> for sdn@irtf.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 19:40:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from vanvan (vanvan.hi.inet [10.95.78.49]) by sbrightmailg02.hi.inet (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 02.EF.05494.9B6B6905; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 19:40:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from correo.tid.es (mailhost.hi.inet [10.95.64.100]) by tid.hi.inet (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPS id <0MCZ00BDR7W919@tid.hi.inet> for sdn@irtf.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 19:40:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet ([169.254.2.64]) by EX10-HTCAS5-MAD.hi.inet ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 19:40:57 +0100 Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:40:57 +0000 From: "Diego R. Lopez" In-reply-to: <00109D36-C1E3-4A16-857D-A31669560377@gmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [10.95.64.115] To: Margaret Wasserman Message-id: Content-id: <791256F45D00324E83BA19C5714920A4@hi.inet> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Accept-Language: en-US, es-ES Thread-topic: [Sdn] SDN-Related Drafts Thread-index: AQHNt2gFnqmFmxyZ9kueSwsa4SDTIJfZ+EYA X-AuditID: 0a5f4e69-b7fc06d000001576-13-5096b6b9fff8 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrFKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCFe9nqLtz27QAg4MbrCzOL3jO4sDoMXnj YbYAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujNXPnjIV9IhX3PjK3sB4QKyLkZNDQsBEYu/p5cwQtpjEhXvr 2boYuTiEBLYxSlxq3ccOkhAS+MYo0XPSGyIxjVFiVd9uNpAEi4CqxLPJl5lAbDYg+1Hzb7AG YSD767orrCA2p4CtxPLe5ewQGxQk/px7zAJiiwjoSdyZup0VZCizQAOjRNvJv0CDODh4Bbwl fjeB1TMLmEms/HQPbA6vgKDEj8n3WEBKmAXUJaZMyYUoEZdobr3JAmErSkxb1MAIYjMKyEq8 mz+fFWKVmsTmV/3MELaRxMaVBxghzhGQWLLnPNTzohIvH/9jhfjXRuLDqi+sExglZiG5YhaS K2YhXDELyRWzkFyxgJF1FaNYcVJRZnpGSW5iZk66gZFeRqZeZl5qySZGSMRl7mBcvlPlEKMA B6MSD+8L5SkBQqyJZcWVuYcYJTmYlER5a1dOCxDiS8pPqcxILM6ILyrNSS0+xCjBwawkwsu1 ASjHm5JYWZValA+TkuHgUJLgTd4KlBIsSk1PrUjLzAGmFZg0EwcnSDsPUHsTSA1vcUFibnFm OkT+FKOklDivL0hCACSRUZoH1/uKURzoSGHeHpAsDzABwnW9AhrIBDRw+6UpIANLEhFSUg2M dt6Xl3xUueO2vVSkKdj/m1PoZL4CzjX/6vXjl+0Mn7xt96a0ybVC3Pv736T1yuTPXGr4uFt4 kvXUF4rr7T9s2H0xYF5Prfnpl12i83iTNTku/E+Qf3M6Lj7Me0fS9m2Mdx2PnHE4+JH7yjP5 09FuEznX5ekb3fuxwnrvem9eecb9PctWG7xrUGIpzkg01GIuKk4EALUI3nM9AwAA References: <00109D36-C1E3-4A16-857D-A31669560377@gmail.com> Cc: Sam Hartman , "" , Dacheng Zhang Subject: Re: [Sdn] SDN-Related Drafts X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:41:03 -0000 SGksDQoNClNETiBzZWN1cml0eSBpcyBkZWZpbml0ZWx5IGEga2V5IGlzc3VlLCBhbmQgSSBkZWZp bml0ZWx5IHN1cHBvcnQgeW91ciBpZGVhDQpvZiBpbmNsdWRpbmcgdGhlc2UgYXNwZWN0cyBpbiB0 aGUgZ3JvdXAgY2hhcnRlci4gSW4gZmFjdCwgSSB0aGluayB0aGF0DQphbiBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGl0 ZW0gb24gbmV3IG5ldHdvcmtzIHNlY3VyaXR5IG1vZGVscyBlbmFibGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBjb25jZXB0 cw0KYXJvdW5kIFNETiAobmV0d29yayBwcm9ncmFtbWFiaWxpdHksIGZsb3cgc3dpY3RoaW5nLCBj cm9zcy1sYXllciBjb250cm9sDQp0byBuYW1lIGEgZmV3KSBjb3VsZCBiZSB3b3J0aCBjb25zaWRl cmluZyBhcyB3ZWxsLg0KDQpJIGFtIGludm9sdmVkIGluIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIGFjdGl2aXRpZXMg cmVsYXRlZCB0byB3aGF0IHlvdSBvdXRsaW5lIGluIHRoZQ0KcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGRvY3VtZW50 IGFuZCBJIHRoaW5rIGNvdWxkIG1ha2Ugc29tZSBjb250cmlidXRpb25zLiBXZSBjb3VsZA0KcHJv YmFibHkgaGF2ZSBhIHRhbGsgYWxvbmcgdGhlIEF0bGFudGEgbWVldGluZy4NCg0KQmUgZ29vZGUs DQoNCk9uIDMxIE9jdCAyMDEyLCBhdCAxNDowMiAsIE1hcmdhcmV0IFdhc3Nlcm1hbiB3cm90ZToN Cg0KPg0KPiBJJ2QgbGlrZSB0byBjYWxsIHlvdXIgYXR0ZW50aW9uIHRvIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIElu dGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBvbiBTRE4gc2VjdXJpdHkgdGhhdCB3ZSBwdWJsaXNoZWQgaW4gcHJlcGFy YXRpb25zIGZvciB0aGUgSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nIGluIEF0bGFudGEuICBUaGUgZmlyc3QgZGlzY3Vz c2VzIHNlY3VyaXR5IHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBmb3IgYW4gU0ROIHNvbHV0aW9uLCBhbmQgdGhlIHNl Y29uZCBwcm92aWRlcyBhbiBhbmFseXNpcyBvZiB0aGUgc2VjdXJpdHkgcHJvcGVydGllcyBvZiB0 aGUgT05GIE9wZW5GbG93IHByb3RvY29sLiAgVGhlIHR3byBkcmFmdHMgY2FuIGJlIGZvdW5kIGhl cmU6DQo+DQo+IGh0dHA6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWhhcnRtYW4tc2Ruc2Vj LXJlcXVpcmVtZW50cy0wMA0KPiBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1tcnct c2Ruc2VjLW9wZW5mbG93LWFuYWx5c2lzLTAwDQo+DQo+IFdoaWxlIG5laXRoZXIgb2YgdGhlc2Ug ZHJhZnRzIGNvbmNlcm5zIGEgcmVzZWFyY2ggdG9waWMsIHBlciBzZSwgd2hlbiB3ZSBhcHByb2Fj aGVkIHRoZSBJbnRlcm5ldCBhbmQgU2VjdXJpdHkgQURzIGFib3V0IGRpc2N1c3NpbmcgdGhlc2Ug ZHJhZnRzIGluIEF0bGFudGEsIHRoZXkgcG9pbnRlZCB1cyBhdCB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgU0ROIFJl c2VhcmNoIEdyb3VwLiAgU28sIGhlcmUgd2UgYXJlIQ0KPg0KPiBXb3VsZCBpdCBiZSBwb3NzaWJs ZSBmb3IgdXMgdG8gcHJlc2VudCB0aGVzZSBkcmFmdHMgYXQgdGhlIFNETlJHIG1lZXRpbmcgaW4g QXRsYW50YT8gIFdlJ2QgbGlrZSB0byBnZXQgZmVlZGJhY2sgb24gdGhlIGRyYWZ0cyBhbmQgZW5j b3VyYWdlIG90aGVyIHBlb3BsZSB0byBjb250cmlidXRlIHRvIHRoaXMgd29yay4NCg0KDQoNCg0K LS0NCiJFc3RhIHZleiBubyBmYWxsYXJlbW9zLCBEb2N0b3IgSW5maWVybm8iDQoNCkRyIERpZWdv IFIuIExvcGV6DQpUZWxlZm9uaWNhIEkrRA0KaHR0cDovL3Blb3BsZS50aWQuZXMvZGllZ28ubG9w ZXovDQoNCmUtbWFpbDogZGllZ29AdGlkLmVzDQpUZWw6ICAgICszNCA5MTMgMTI5IDA0MQ0KTW9i aWxlOiArMzQgNjgyIDA1MSAwOTENCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KRXN0ZSBtZW5z YWplIHNlIGRpcmlnZSBleGNsdXNpdmFtZW50ZSBhIHN1IGRlc3RpbmF0YXJpby4gUHVlZGUgY29u c3VsdGFyIG51ZXN0cmEgcG9sw610aWNhIGRlIGVudsOtbyB5IHJlY2VwY2nDs24gZGUgY29ycmVv IGVsZWN0csOzbmljbyBlbiBlbCBlbmxhY2Ugc2l0dWFkbyBtw6FzIGFiYWpvLg0KVGhpcyBtZXNz YWdlIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIGV4Y2x1c2l2ZWx5IGZvciBpdHMgYWRkcmVzc2VlLiBXZSBvbmx5IHNl bmQgYW5kIHJlY2VpdmUgZW1haWwgb24gdGhlIGJhc2lzIG9mIHRoZSB0ZXJtcyBzZXQgb3V0IGF0 Og0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy50aWQuZXMvRVMvUEFHSU5BUy9kaXNjbGFpbWVyLmFzcHgNCg== From dmm@1-4-5.net Tue Nov 6 04:30:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2546821F88D5 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:30:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wP8sYFzx9fAs for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A467921F88D6 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wc20so418870obb.13 for ; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 04:30:05 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=+MhuAR1vDwINzIS911a5QV42WFfazNaWsPtFagK+Dxg=; b=JkqTfxe/7JSXy+xKxun/Ai4W/dOZmE6HEDJw8+ZSOVwztQ/Ka32xRkZSTJKuFkONPA suxxwNIZf6R1S7DH1MDA86gmWo5J3U8k8Hp1HRIuaRRDh9eNY3qxlQV5rXs8gsXUSClr /FinOc/iVogDtpAc1AoZ4ugRIozxtTNwaHv1EL+0iXVpblFgKdtT7YMc27hFVH0jl+Sh 43FTtn8/2LtvvUQGDdK4y9WNTta8xPjQAEU+CJZHDICum7yDZNYbcYKsQNYkWT11yxMe tTj1eZMf8rIuCXLGPDAkHrFIpb6+XIXiIqR1eSHM9+VjZUzxE+pbcL3IP9hCOuC+5qCd T1yw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.174.39 with SMTP id bp7mr671334obc.1.1352205004857; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 04:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.130.44 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:30:04 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2001:df8:0:16:b49d:b326:c864:1ff2] Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:30:04 -0800 Message-ID: From: David Meyer To: SDN IRTF list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f642a2afa5fbe04cdd2c22a X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQltZhDnKPYHI1lhftcv97UnLkcmpThtpJ3X34idBhkLGT7YmkDDWWpfIhPpfOl+ff/Gqbnm Subject: [Sdn] Need a Jabber/minutes scribe for the SDNRG meeting today X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:30:06 -0000 --e89a8f642a2afa5fbe04cdd2c22a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Can someone volunteer? Please unicast me if you can scribe. Thnx, --dmm --e89a8f642a2afa5fbe04cdd2c22a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Can someone volunteer? Please unicast me if you can scribe. Thnx, --dmm --e89a8f642a2afa5fbe04cdd2c22a-- From dmm@1-4-5.net Tue Nov 6 04:49:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278A421F88A3 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:49:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MuYTTYDAFkhy for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A676921F8861 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so439649oag.13 for ; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 04:49:51 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=3+OMmZ3n7xvQVFPtZUS0A5p1rdagRUx0HpYYC+fuA1E=; b=JtWpXh5dUYMw7zK9NyS50yUW66tGW/IhymmDqdxnJcEjuBnr3FsHDUnkN4FecM/WfS EHZXeup7V4soF9+oh5888id1ux4LEs1rCNbMPhDjz0dOTggMxf6Q33dbyy8zj3Z7iZny QWww9wGDBRR4A9ZceiOCp7/BmMlO9VGtuJhugjhJ7NerPxMO66H30K6TIP1hwvdSFFjH MWIWKUDP+BiIP+2jcP9JhSOqW5+0UM2R8sIj/MtBslNVgFD0farJFnYDH58qvXQyhY0I 6xybRSOjdT5seuPNHx7OhydkvbZwodyEvWZ02IAaqNTAYOmWjtZ5iiTudOJYuat3sYJf N9dQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.2.65 with SMTP id 1mr682779oes.19.1352206191059; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 04:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.130.44 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:49:50 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2001:df8:0:16:b49d:b326:c864:1ff2] Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 04:49:50 -0800 Message-ID: From: David Meyer To: SDN IRTF list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb20760ae614604cdd309de X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmGKtnUCCYmzfQ0Dh5KV0i9ydTF5tEf88FLctLDFnDdZ2iH0pWV4JYKTu/+PAWA5NX8ypHb Subject: [Sdn] (most of the) slides for today's meeting online X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:49:52 -0000 --e89a8fb20760ae614604cdd309de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Check http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/sdnrg --dmm --e89a8fb20760ae614604cdd309de Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check=A0h= ttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/sdnrg

--dmm

--e89a8fb20760ae614604cdd309de-- From nygren@gmail.com Tue Nov 6 14:51:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7318321F8B69 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:51:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K-FmpnegxDNS for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422BA21F8B8C for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id rp8so794030pbb.13 for ; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:51:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7N9dkWFl8KGl331syB8YNTluPyV6eEUvr7Pf7d4+XSc=; b=H8CfxyjoLzqqMRfGMQQbq3c6oEpL6upFh9OOV4a4RwOs4Pt3zBpOCf1zuAxnCR9tBB smJGHnz10OM/iquK5CwuhN/ZjQK8HIH5+j0a/cJlalEtee8zzm1k+S1JIdguHAp1e5Fi EBOUX2rbzKEIs2YQ1FoblP/eslnYgGo1/FZZGwKqLdEGSa4iddQOmCVjVi9j82AkkIsP /LnAZ7o/VCr4/mW1pAfYVO2oCFYNzrLVgNgX1s7GHkOLing4YCBZbI0GCCDWLdmkzISc F7MMex8SSP819gLxta8VHdFnSCyNfYXZPMbBkL1UPAkl8Ix+WdgrRLl+v3t/PvHC/qmM xXCQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.240.36 with SMTP id vx4mr1190956pbc.90.1352242273635; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:51:13 -0800 (PST) Sender: nygren@gmail.com Received: by 10.66.248.202 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:51:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:51:13 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: h0EJ09E5N4mteRp174wqD8ct5a4 Message-ID: From: Erik Nygren To: sdn@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b339c275ecc1604cddb70e6 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 08:21:44 -0800 Cc: Sam Hartman Subject: [Sdn] SDN and Active Networks X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 22:51:16 -0000 --047d7b339c275ecc1604cddb70e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Software-Defined Networking Research Group folks, In a hallway conversation here at IETF, it was suggested that I send on a pointer to the Active Networking research that was active from the 1996-1999 time-frame. During time there was quite a bit of work at MIT, BBN, DARPA, and elsewhere on "Active Networks" which are have significant similarities to Software-Defined Networks. For those unaware of this work, there may be value with skimming through it for lessons that could be learned or carried forwards into today's SDN work. Some sample references: http://djw.cs.washington.edu/papers/ieeecomms97.ps http://www.sds.lcs.mit.edu/activeware/ http://www.sds.lcs.mit.edu/darpa-activenet/ (Some web searches will turn up more active networking work in the 1999-2000 time-frame.) Erik --047d7b339c275ecc1604cddb70e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software-Defined Networking Research Group folks,

In a hallway conve= rsation here at IETF, it was suggested that I send on a pointer to the Acti= ve Networking research that was active from the 1996-1999 time-frame.
During time there was quite a bit of work at MIT, BBN, DARPA, and elsewhere= on "Active Networks" which are have significant similarities to = Software-Defined Networks.
For those unaware of this work, there may be = value with skimming through it for lessons that could be learned or carried= forwards into today's SDN work.
Some sample references:

=A0=A0 http://djw.cs.washington.edu/papers/ieeecomms97.p= s
=A0=A0 http://w= ww.sds.lcs.mit.edu/activeware/
=A0=A0 http://www.s= ds.lcs.mit.edu/darpa-activenet/

(Some web searches will turn up = more active networking work in the 1999-2000 time-frame.)

=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Erik

--047d7b339c275ecc1604cddb70e6-- From dmm@1-4-5.net Thu Nov 8 09:12:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E153521F879E for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:12:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fY73ER46sEXF for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6399621F879C for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wc20so3866158obb.13 for ; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:12:37 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=mW2D7aelzOb8IpIPydOr7G0LiZHS74PHFJKP9/33hdI=; b=OP3P10yWAGYvkYW4jaiqcnuwlGQiwLWILkD6r6TsdGDfRjX9zc8qMO5FXutvgloXSg Uob/wIHFCQob3ymJI7ouH6mUZ3DyCO8Q3ikxGTgY9NrTOOt3Msjs3hiOUSChff9+kcXo ZhTEOdP14V8oZZCuK8noxzNp57EcTkwd9HFxZjXl9w7l5O5JanYh+59H7OEQeqsB++pI wS6rfLdpK5av3yKb7wwHt1A0zhUDWL60+295Ve33h7zthVXT2AfG1c6TJzUMpQJsrNo6 sUjSfiPQyaFN+vD4d+KKnI5UBrtUOxX3bto2Ujdlrglq2rzKVZUq28OcrlB9fWoBBsFY uByA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.174.39 with SMTP id bp7mr6333168obc.1.1352394756785; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.130.44 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:12:36 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [144.49.132.3] Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:12:36 -0800 Message-ID: From: David Meyer To: SDN IRTF list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f642a2a13056104cdfef1d8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm8LqYT5LTiPJiR5aJNkr+Jz7khKRPXQRvqXNg/k0ly+mVamQ0UN/UaUSI8lWRCQwWJb1mf Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:12:38 -0000 --e89a8f642a2a13056104cdfef1d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Folks, I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send them to the list and I'll rev the charter. Thnx, --dmm --e89a8f642a2a13056104cdfef1d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Folks,

I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send them to the list and I'll rev the charter.

Thnx,

--dmm

--e89a8f642a2a13056104cdfef1d8-- From sbarkai@gmail.com Fri Nov 9 11:23:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1BE21F84EB for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:23:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QHETYyryGsD0 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EEDF21F84E1 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id wz17so1471290pbc.13 for ; Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:23:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=HtU7QzQUdN5kv5mJ5i0FXpr/sxmYAg+3Eq7HlQIf81A=; b=TJY+EBtoFF6j3KvLjDrEyf6DvF7yNJIEY62z70i3zu9L/HtfYBhFt5iAmqLVmvFBWD xYa+vPBUI2OynzXi0UT0AyyoIHuVC/FOkBClgSII1Sz5xJRElI0nEv7YKB4VG5rhzt4t ZOw2pl9GIJr45u3FHTvQv2i/GCX3yJ5ddWehgcSfluIHD2KwItqYnYTfrd7/GSvD+O9m G5b2TQrO6B+eXKlGyqFNzFyzhd6wHEsXERbvcLNB+LPFZcQK5Pvm3LVXQnc/vY5PG6CV OaCdpsKBMV7qFRlTCeIwlBKFBDc9y8xpGs21wwpa9M+7gbI9ELKrCIufReYMknoLbVP/ PI6A== Received: by 10.68.247.196 with SMTP id yg4mr36791942pbc.167.1352489012602; Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.208] (adsl-75-36-164-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net. [75.36.164.204]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id zv10sm18130262pbc.76.2012.11.09.11.23.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:23:31 -0800 (PST) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <5A090F66-FAC0-41AE-90A0-F1696EE0FE84@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A406) From: Sharon Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:23:16 -0800 To: David Meyer Cc: SDN IRTF list Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 19:23:37 -0000 Suggest the following: "At the same time network control plane has experienced dramatically slower e= volution. In fact, configuring and managing networks continues to be about n= etwork element operations (as opposed to network services)." At the same time network control plane has been slower to evolve for key inh= erit reasons: - Control planes had been traditionally anchored on the notion of a network i= nterface as the touch point for setting up forwarding plane operations. This= pattern is proving to be less practical as means for instantiating network c= onnectivity services since end-point mobility of both clients and servers is= becoming the norm rather then the exception. Controls are therefore need to= be put in place instantly wherever end-points "show up". - Control planes assumed that forwarding operations can be applied either fo= r switching packets in a connectionless service or for switching circuits in= a connection oriented service. The evolution of silicon however now allows f= or the programming of flows at the forwarding plane as means of describing n= etwork conversations. Such definitions are much closer means of describing a= service, but can still be based on connectionless packet forwarding without= the scale and dynamics constraints of circuit switching. - Control plane designs had to follow one of two patterns, either globally a= ware but centralized and therefore limited as far as scale and dynamics, or d= istributed, dynamic, scalable, autonomous, and self-healing, but only locall= y aware. New software control design patterns in domains such as search and i= ndexing of data have tout us its possible to achieve both global awareness a= nd resilient distribution by making topology efficiency requirements more le= nient. Hence placing more pressure on local switching for achieving global a= nd elastic efficiencies. On Nov 8, 2012, at 9:12, David Meyer wrote: Folks, I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send the= m to the list and I'll rev the charter. Thnx, --dmm _______________________________________________ sdn mailing list sdn@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn From russw@riw.us Sat Nov 10 18:35:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFA221F88BE for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:35:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1AMXtAT955eT for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from da31.namelessnet.net (da31.namelessnet.net [74.124.205.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7AC21F8751 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-065-190-156-032.nc.res.rr.com ([65.190.156.32] helo=[192.168.100.52]) by da31.namelessnet.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1TXNO5-0007fe-Oj for sdn@irtf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:35:05 -0800 Message-ID: <509F0EDD.7060600@riw.us> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:35:09 -0500 From: Russ White User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sdn@irtf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Seems clean. You should still use an Antivirus Scanner Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 02:35:07 -0000 One thing I think we need to do is add a piece about building a taxonomy of possible SDN solutions, so we can get our arms around this space. For instance, is hybrid really SDN? Is IRS? How can we know what our scope is without knowing what an SDN is? :-) :-) Russ On 11/8/2012 12:12 PM, David Meyer wrote: > Folks, > > I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send > them to the list and I'll rev the charter. > > Thnx, > > --dmm > > > > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn > From ramk@Brocade.com Sat Nov 10 21:48:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6B521F881C for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:48:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.419, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pVLVRgkMdQ4T for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-000f0801.pphosted.com (mx0b-000f0801.pphosted.com [67.231.152.113]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED43D21F8431 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0000700 [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-000f0801.pphosted.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id qAB5m1r0012218; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:48:48 -0800 Received: from hq1wp-exchub01.corp.brocade.com ([144.49.131.13]) by mx0b-000f0801.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 18gpc4s8ef-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:48:48 -0800 Received: from HQ1WP-EXHUB02.corp.brocade.com (10.70.38.14) by HQ1WP-EXCHUB01.corp.brocade.com (10.70.36.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.309.2; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:49:35 -0800 Received: from HQ1-EXCH01.corp.brocade.com ([fe80::ed42:173e:fe7d:d0a6]) by HQ1WP-EXHUB02.corp.brocade.com ([fe80::e1f4:a4c8:696b:3780%10]) with mapi; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:49:14 -0800 From: ramki Krishnan To: David Meyer , SDN IRTF list Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:48:42 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list Thread-Index: Ac291IqAcon0Eow6QCC2mgPSmKyHkgB+p4lA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C7634EB63EFD984A978DFB46EA5174F2BF4F911E98HQ1EXCH01corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8185, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-11-11_01:2012-11-10, 2012-11-11, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=1 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1207200000 definitions=main-1211100397 Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 05:48:52 -0000 --_000_C7634EB63EFD984A978DFB46EA5174F2BF4F911E98HQ1EXCH01corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would be worthwhile to add an item on near term and long term SDN use ca= ses across all vertical markets. Thanks, ramki From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of David= Meyer Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:13 AM To: SDN IRTF list Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list Folks, I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send th= em to the list and I'll rev the charter. Thnx, --dmm --_000_C7634EB63EFD984A978DFB46EA5174F2BF4F911E98HQ1EXCH01corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It would be= worthwhile to add an item on near term and long term SDN use cases across = all vertical markets.

=  

Thanks, =

ramki

 

From: sdn-b= ounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of David Mey= er
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:13 AM
To: SDN IR= TF list
Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list

 

Folks,

 

I want to sharpen up the charter wit= h your ideas/comments so please send them to the list and I'll rev the char= ter.

 

Thnx,

 

--dmm=

 

= --_000_C7634EB63EFD984A978DFB46EA5174F2BF4F911E98HQ1EXCH01corp_-- From swb@internet2.edu Sun Nov 11 16:05:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A2D21F84CC for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:05:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rK9xzht8BVcx for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from int-proxy02.merit.edu (int-proxy02.merit.edu [207.75.116.231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C619621F84D8 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by int-proxy02.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1485B12057F; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:05:16 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at int-proxy02.merit.edu Received: from int-proxy02.merit.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (int-proxy02.merit.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C4ttc6fl-L6H; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from swbi2mbp.local (63-238-229-145.dia.static.qwest.net [63.238.229.145]) by int-proxy02.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A220D12056C; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:05:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50A024A8.80203@internet2.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:20:24 -0500 From: Scott Brim Organization: Internet2 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Meyer References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: SDN IRTF list Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 00:05:27 -0000 On 11/08/12 12:12, David Meyer allegedly wrote: > Folks, > > I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please > send them to the list and I'll rev the charter. Y'know, I had a number of suggested changes and then realized that what you have here is pretty good, so I tossed them out. Besides small editorial tweaks like spelling, the only change I would suggest is > Finally, the SDNRG provides objective definitions, metrics and --> "seeks to provide". The beginning is more chatty than I like but is okay. The rest, I finally decided, is Good. I'd leave it except for a few minor grammar changes, which I'm you'll get plenty of advice on. Responding to other suggestions ... On 11/09/12 14:23, Sharon allegedly wrote: > Suggest the following: The proposed text is very long. I would not put it in a charter (the charter already verges on too much background info). This text could go in a framework draft. On 11/10/12 21:35, Russ White allegedly wrote:> > One thing I think we need to do is add a piece about building a > taxonomy of possible SDN solutions, so we can get our arms around > this space. For instance, is hybrid really SDN? Is IRS? > > How can we know what our scope is without knowing what an SDN is? > :-) This is covered in "investigates SDN from various perspectives with the goal of identifying the approaches that can be defined, deployed and used". It's no longer possible to define something as not SDN a priori, so let the scope of the RG be everything that someone claims is SDN (as is stated here), and as per this charter goal, characterize it. This is a good contribution to clarity and knowledge. On 11/11/12 00:48, ramki Krishnan allegedly wrote: > It would be worthwhile to add an item on near term and long term SDN > use cases across all vertical markets. True, but I suspect that's also already covered in that paragraph. I don't like RG charters that get too detailed on outputs, as long as their scope of activity is defined. RGs should be very flexible. Scott From sbarkai@gmail.com Sun Nov 11 21:12:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DDF21F847D for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:12:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id clMhSNt5lw-i for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:12:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C6CD21F847B for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k10so10963115iea.13 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:11:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=Bcoe+w0b8DSu2P3JxOAhens7iplIwyBot1YheWFbIqg=; b=xKh0kldM6ZBQu+f74/lMeKiF9UVxgqfU/B1iBSezXvo3Eji06Yq10ZPPPoehYUPwLu vMj2irmg3mivZiEeAWwtjDD6HFo/f0JrdetTBTwVaseJSIsLl27c/CbMNIAbTZ6PBmpk wlr3C8CiPwRCHptZVY31PcK+k0UxNpo/Q9QOaxlN1k9j/ymlLo000KIuOrHYEPxOV+Ge oFXVQpieu278SzptGtXrJyMGVR/WJGtHN7usLfHr0LNz0BVIovWridCaUjEPKC1xVez/ Dx/yho3WUFW3Ukw1X9KZkCu7IWyal8vdmIZHdwnxSBYplUyUUrO3EzCqs16s00mpm87W /1xA== Received: by 10.50.187.194 with SMTP id fu2mr7019815igc.63.1352697115270; Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (108-214-96-27.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.214.96.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id kp4sm5549337igc.1.2012.11.11.21.11.53 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:11:54 -0800 (PST) References: <50A024A8.80203@internet2.edu> In-Reply-To: <50A024A8.80203@internet2.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <77929D92-57ED-4532-BDD4-766DF06DA0BA@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A523) From: Sharon Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:11:55 -0800 To: Scott Brim Cc: David Meyer , SDN IRTF list Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 05:12:02 -0000 >The proposed text is very long. I would not put it in a charter (the >charter already verges on too much background info). This text could go >in a framework draft. Think you are right. Is someone drafting a framework? The LISP one is a good starting point ., - decouples control from interfaces (good) - misses clear support for flows at the edges - and misses a more proactive global SW control then DNS On Nov 11, 2012, at 14:20, Scott Brim wrote: On 11/08/12 12:12, David Meyer allegedly wrote: > Folks, > > I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please > send them to the list and I'll rev the charter. Y'know, I had a number of suggested changes and then realized that what you have here is pretty good, so I tossed them out. Besides small editorial tweaks like spelling, the only change I would suggest is > Finally, the SDNRG provides objective definitions, metrics and --> "seeks to provide". The beginning is more chatty than I like but is okay. The rest, I finally decided, is Good. I'd leave it except for a few minor grammar changes, which I'm you'll get plenty of advice on. Responding to other suggestions ... On 11/09/12 14:23, Sharon allegedly wrote: > Suggest the following: The proposed text is very long. I would not put it in a charter (the charter already verges on too much background info). This text could go in a framework draft. On 11/10/12 21:35, Russ White allegedly wrote:> > One thing I think we need to do is add a piece about building a > taxonomy of possible SDN solutions, so we can get our arms around > this space. For instance, is hybrid really SDN? Is IRS? > > How can we know what our scope is without knowing what an SDN is? > :-) This is covered in "investigates SDN from various perspectives with the goal of identifying the approaches that can be defined, deployed and used". It's no longer possible to define something as not SDN a priori, so let the scope of the RG be everything that someone claims is SDN (as is stated here), and as per this charter goal, characterize it. This is a good contribution to clarity and knowledge. On 11/11/12 00:48, ramki Krishnan allegedly wrote: > It would be worthwhile to add an item on near term and long term SDN > use cases across all vertical markets. True, but I suspect that's also already covered in that paragraph. I don't like RG charters that get too detailed on outputs, as long as their scope of activity is defined. RGs should be very flexible. Scott _______________________________________________ sdn mailing list sdn@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn From tnadeau@lucidvision.com Mon Nov 12 13:13:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FE321F86D3 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:13:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xWuO53heW0xx for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B2621F86CE for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.6.152] (ip-64-134-229-88.public.wayport.net [64.134.229.88]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376E22325DF0; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:13:22 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Thomas Nadeau In-Reply-To: <509F0EDD.7060600@riw.us> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:13:11 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <582854F5-7BE3-4C3C-BC89-FF2D28548E2E@lucidvision.com> References: <509F0EDD.7060600@riw.us> To: Russ White X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: sdn@irtf.org Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:13:32 -0000 On Nov 10, 2012:9:35 PM, at 9:35 PM, Russ White wrote: >=20 > One thing I think we need to do is add a piece about building a = taxonomy > of possible SDN solutions, so we can get our arms around this space. = For > instance, is hybrid really SDN? Is IRS? I like this idea, and was the suggestion I had made at the end = of my presentation about our working on a "framework" of sorts to guide = the work here.=20 > How can we know what our scope is without knowing what an SDN is? :-) I suggest that we worry about (loosely) defining what SDN is to = *this* organization (IRTF). --Tom >=20 > :-) >=20 > Russ >=20 > On 11/8/2012 12:12 PM, David Meyer wrote: >> Folks, >>=20 >> I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please = send >> them to the list and I'll rev the charter. >>=20 >> Thnx, >>=20 >> --dmm >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> sdn mailing list >> sdn@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn >=20 From k.pentikousis@huawei.com Thu Nov 15 07:28:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C63121F8939 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:28:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oYWIcVHqsCkY for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (szxga02-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 469F621F8937 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:28:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO szxeml214-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.4-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ASQ37248; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:28:45 +0800 (CST) Received: from SZXEML438-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.73) by szxeml214-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:26:02 +0800 Received: from szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.6]) by szxeml438-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.73]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:25:59 +0800 From: Konstantinos Pentikousis To: Sharon , David Meyer Thread-Topic: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list Thread-Index: AQHNvrUF1R3hOSJw506eHvnt99aVrZfrDR0Q Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:25:58 +0000 Message-ID: <8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE04@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5A090F66-FAC0-41AE-90A0-F1696EE0FE84@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5A090F66-FAC0-41AE-90A0-F1696EE0FE84@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.37.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: SDN IRTF list Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:28:55 -0000 Hi Sharon, all, This is well put. But does it really belong to the charter? Best Regards, Kostas |-----Original Message----- |From: Sharon [mailto:sbarkai@gmail.com] |Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:23 PM |To: David Meyer |Cc: SDN IRTF list |Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list | |Suggest the following: | | |"At the same time network control plane has experienced dramatically |slower evolution. In fact, configuring and managing networks continues |to be about network element operations (as opposed to network |services)." | | |At the same time network control plane has been slower to evolve for |key inherit reasons: =20 From sw3588@att.com Thu Nov 15 07:34:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E4321F893F for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:34:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wA0fbuPXy1ok for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nbfkord-smmo08.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo08.seg.att.com [209.65.160.95]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649F621F8937 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.146] (EHLO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo08.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-12) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id a7b05a05.0.743154.00-483.2064401.nbfkord-smmo08.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:34:19 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 50a50b7b5039a77f-fa0ea7bff95bd420bafc409a91e9c938bf8a1a32 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAFFYH3B014857 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:34:18 -0500 Received: from sflint03.pst.cso.att.com (sflint03.pst.cso.att.com [144.154.234.230]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAFFYEbX014819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:34:15 -0500 Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com (gaalpa1msghub9e.itservices.sbc.com [130.8.36.91]) by sflint03.pst.cso.att.com (RSA Interceptor) for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:34:03 -0500 Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSR9L.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.36.69]) by GAALPA1MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.36.91]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:34:02 -0500 From: "WRIGHT, STEVEN A" To: "'sdn@irtf.org'" Thread-Topic: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list Thread-Index: AQHNvdRJ0ez1js9Md0C2u/ExTUQg+Jfk0J0QgAZAlAA= Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:34:01 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.199.78.147] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C3E0E0A52DD7EB4F9ED09728E6FD7647025B7AC9GAALPA1MSGUSR9L_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.146] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=INm1/HTG c=1 sm=0 a=Qs8R1XBwmid1qBFB/a8mmA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=_yQMYLkA92wA:10 a=-LsTpg8axHYA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32RAAAA:8 a=8asFn7Lfa] X-AnalysisOut: [HgA:10 a=YlDpyLmHAAAA:8 a=et6HLngZmmTFDVYr4MoA:9 a=CjuIK1q] X-AnalysisOut: [_8ugA:10 a=dJfReQaKw_4A:10 a=Hz7IrDYlS0cA:10 a=WZiKUSCcF5c] X-AnalysisOut: [A:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=YJmvyu4yuA_Gv-kmvQMA:9 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:1] X-AnalysisOut: [0 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=TvPi2gCFPfKoxT6v:2] X-AnalysisOut: [1] Subject: [Sdn] FW: please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:34:21 -0000 --_000_C3E0E0A52DD7EB4F9ED09728E6FD7647025B7AC9GAALPA1MSGUSR9L_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM To: David Meyer Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list The charter would benefit from having one or more succinct problem statemen= t(s). While a taxonomy, framework and use cases can help explore a subject = space, a problem statement provides a focus for the work, and some means to= evaluate whether a particular piece of work is in scope, or is progressing= the topic towards solution of the problem. It would be desirable to have t= he problem statement in the charter, though as a research group, it could a= lso be a deliverable. The current charter draft hints at several different problems e.g. network = agility, service velocity, network operation, network debugging are difficu= lt. While these might all be commercially interesting problems, it is not n= ecessarily clear that there is a single solution to all of them. A succinct problem statement would also be helpful in clarifying who has th= e problem at the focus of the group's work. Is this a problem space for equ= ipment designers? Network operators? General internet users? This clarifica= tion would help those researchers constrained to work on commercially relev= ant problems to engage appropriately. Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD. Lead Member of Technical Staff AT&T Services Inc. Strategic Standards 1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D28 Atlanta, GA 30319 P: 404.499.7030 sw3588@att.com From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces= @irtf.org] On Behalf Of David Meyer Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM To: SDN IRTF list Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list Folks, I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send th= em to the list and I'll rev the charter. Thnx, --dmm --_000_C3E0E0A52DD7EB4F9ED09728E6FD7647025B7AC9GAALPA1MSGUSR9L_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: WRIGHT, = STEVEN A
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM
To: David Meyer
Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list

 

The charter would benefit= from having one or more succinct problem statement(s). While a taxonomy, f= ramework and use cases can help explore a subject space, a problem statement provides a focus for the work, and some means to evalu= ate whether a particular piece of work is in scope, or is progressing the t= opic towards solution of the problem. It would be desirable to have the pro= blem statement in the charter, though as a research group, it could also be a deliverable.

 <= /p>

The current charter draft= hints at several different problems e.g. network agility, service velocity= , network operation, network debugging are difficult. While these might all be commercially interesting problems, it is not necessaril= y clear that there is a single solution to all of them.

 <= /p>

A succinct problem statem= ent would also be helpful in clarifying who has the problem at the focus of= the group’s work. Is this a problem space for equipment designers? Network operators? General internet users? This clarification w= ould help those researchers constrained to work on commercially relevant pr= oblems to engage appropriately.


 
Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD.
Lead Member of Technical Staff

AT&T Services Inc.
Strategic Standards
1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D28
Atlanta, GA 30319
P: 404.499.7030

sw3588@att.com

 <= /p>

From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of David Meyer
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM
To: SDN IRTF list
Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list

 

Folks,

 

I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/com= ments so please send them to the list and I'll rev the charter.<= /p>

 

Thnx,

 

--dmm

 

--_000_C3E0E0A52DD7EB4F9ED09728E6FD7647025B7AC9GAALPA1MSGUSR9L_-- From k.pentikousis@huawei.com Thu Nov 15 07:50:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291D621F843A for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:50:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.667, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ihvxiVOK2rL for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A516921F842B for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO szxeml210-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.4-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ASW39396; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:50:04 +0800 (CST) Received: from SZXEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.138) by szxeml210-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.183) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:49:59 +0800 Received: from szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.6]) by szxeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:50:01 +0800 From: Konstantinos Pentikousis To: Scott Brim , David Meyer Thread-Topic: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list Thread-Index: AQHNwRBz40f8bExhNUSY4C+rlHlRApfrCPPw Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:50:00 +0000 Message-ID: <8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE27@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <50A024A8.80203@internet2.edu> In-Reply-To: <50A024A8.80203@internet2.edu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.37.56] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE27szxeml545mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: SDN IRTF list Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:50:11 -0000 --_002_8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE27szxeml545mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, Scott, all, |> I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please |> send them to the list and I'll rev the charter. | |Y'know, I had a number of suggested changes and then realized that |what you have here is pretty good, so I tossed them out. Besides small |editorial tweaks like spelling, the only change I would suggest is I have some editorial suggestions, please see attached. One point to consid= er is that the RG should be clearly distinct from other prominent academic = fora on SDN. I think this was already brought up in the meeting. In additio= n, the possibility to actively engage with (existing and future) IETF WGs w= orking in the same area/direction is a distinct advantage of an RG. Current= ly, the IETF is listed as just another SDO. |On 11/10/12 21:35, Russ White allegedly wrote: |> One thing I think we need to do is add a piece about building a |> taxonomy of possible SDN solutions, so we can get our arms around |> this space. For instance, is hybrid really SDN? Is IRS? |> |> How can we know what our scope is without knowing what an SDN is? |> :-) | |This is covered in "investigates SDN from various perspectives with |the goal of identifying the approaches that can be defined, deployed and |used". It's no longer possible to define something as not SDN a |priori, so let the scope of the RG be everything that someone claims is = SDN |(as is stated here), and as per this charter goal, characterize it. Thi= s |is a good contribution to clarity and knowledge. I second this. Wrt the areas of interest, isn't "Classification of SDN models and their re= lationship to existing IETF work" more like a work item (perhaps akin to th= e Taxonomy already proposed) than an "area" of research? Items 3 and 5 are interrelated and could be merged. Finally, I'm not sure w= hy "hybrid models" are singled out. Perhaps "SDN models" is better. Best Regards, Kostas --_002_8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE27szxeml545mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; name="charter-edited.txt" Content-Description: charter-edited.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="charter-edited.txt"; size=3420; creation-date="Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:40:20 GMT"; modification-date="Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:45:08 GMT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RWRpdG9yaWFsIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zOg0KDQpzL3Byb2dyYW1tYWJpbGl0eS9wcm9ncmFtbWFiaWxp dHkvZw0KDQpzL2NvbnRpbnVlcyB0byBiZSBhYm91dC9jb250aW51ZXMgdG8gY2VudGVyIGFyb3Vu ZA0KDQpzL29wZXJhdGlvbiwgZGVidWdnaW5nLyBvcGVyYXRpb24sIGFuZCB0cm91Ymxlc2hvb3Rp bmcgDQoNCnMvU0ROIHByb21pc2VzIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgYSBtdWx0aS1sYXllciBwbGF0Zm9ybSB3 aGljaCBlbmNvbXBhc3NlcyBwcm9ncmFtbWFiaWxpdHkvIFNETiBlbmNvbXBhc3NlcyBwcm9ncmFt bWFiaWxpdHkNCg0Kcy9vbiB0aGUgdGhlb3J5L29uIHRoZSBwcmVtaXNlDQoNCkmSZCBicmVhayB0 aGUgZmlyc3QgcGFyYWdyYXBoIGp1c3QgYmVmb3JlIJNTb2Z0d2FyZSBEZWZpbmVkIE5ldHdvcmtz IChTRE5zKSBbLi5dlCBtYWtpbmcgYSBuZXcgc2Vjb25kIHBhcmFncmFwaCB3aGljaCB3b3VsZCBj bG9zZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBzZW50ZW5jZSCTU0ROIGFpbXMgDQp0byBiZW5lZml0IGFsbCB0eXBlcyBv ZiBuZXR3b3JrcyBbLi5dIHdpZGUtYXJlYSBuZXR3b3Jrcy6UDQoNCnMvaW52ZXN0aWdhdGVzIFNE TiBmcm9tIHZhcmlvdXMgcGVyc3BlY3RpdmVzL3dpbGwgY29uc2lkZXIgdmFyaW91cyBTRE4gbW9k ZWxzIGFuZCBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0ZSBTRE4gYXMgYSB3aG9sZQ0KDQpzL3Byb3ZpZGUgYSBmb3J1bSBm b3IvYW4gYWN0aXZlIGZvcnVtLCBkaXN0aW5jdCBmcm9tIHB1cmVseSBhY2FkZW1pYyBjb25mZXJl bmNlcywgZm9yDQoNCnMvU0RPcyBhbmQvLw0KDQpzL2ludmVzdGlnYXRlIGtleS9kaXNjdXNzIGtl eQ0KDQoNCkVESVRFRCBURVhUOg0KDQpUaGUgIk1vb3JlJ3MgTGF3IiBlZmZlY3QgaGFzIHNlZW4g bmV0d29yayBoYXJkd2FyZSBpbXByb3ZlIGFsb25nIGFsbW9zdCBhbGwgaGFyZHdhcmUgb3JpZW50 ZWQgZGltZW5zaW9ucywgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHBvcnQgZGVuc2l0aWVzLCBzcGVlZHMgYW5kIGZlZWRz LCBhbmQgcHJpY2UvYml0IG92ZXIgdGhlIHBhc3Qgc2V2ZXJhbCBkZWNhZGVzLiBBdCB0aGUgc2Ft ZSB0aW1lIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIGNvbnRyb2wgcGxhbmUgaGFzIGV4cGVyaWVuY2VkIGEgZHJhbWF0 aWNhbGx5IHNsb3dlciBldm9sdXRpb24uIEluIGZhY3QsIGNvbmZpZ3VyaW5nIGFuZCBtYW5hZ2lu ZyBuZXR3b3JrcyBjb250aW51ZXMgdG8gY2VudGVyIGFyb3VuZCBuZXR3b3JrIGVsZW1lbnQgb3Bl cmF0aW9ucyAoYXMgb3Bwb3NlZCB0byBuZXR3b3JrIHNlcnZpY2VzKS4gVGhpcyBtaXggb2YgZXZl ci1ncm93aW5nIG5ldHdvcmtzIGFuZCBldmVyLWFkdmFuY2luZyBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIHJlcXVp cmVtZW50cyBtYWtlcyBuZXR3b3JrIGFnaWxpdHksIHNlcnZpY2UgdmVsb2NpdHksIG9wZXJhdGlv biwgYW5kIHRyb3VibGVzaG9vdGluZyBpbmNyZWFzaW5nbHkgbW9yZSBkaWZmaWN1bHQgYW5kIGV4 cGVuc2l2ZS4gVGhpcyBlZmZlY3QgaXMgc2VlbiBhY3Jvc3MgYWxsIG5ldHdvcmsgdHlwZXMsIGlu Y2x1ZGluZyBlbnRlcnByaXNlLCBkYXRhIGNlbnRlciwgYW5kIHNlcnZpY2UgcHJvdmlkZXIgbmV0 d29ya3MuDQoNClNvZnR3YXJlIERlZmluZWQgTmV0d29ya3MgKFNETnMpIGFyZSB3aWRlbHkgc2Vl biBhcyBhIHByb21pc2luZyBzZXQgb2Ygc29sdXRpb25zIHRvIHJlc29sdmUgdGhlc2UgY2hhbGxl bmdlcy4gSW4gcGFydGljdWxhciwgU0ROIGVuY29tcGFzc2VzIHByb2dyYW1tYWJpbGl0eSBub3Qg b25seSBhdCB0aGUgZm9yd2FyZGluZyBhbmQgY29udHJvbCBwbGFuZXMsIGJ1dCBhbHNvIGF0IHRo ZSB0cmFuc3BvcnQgbGF5ZXJzIGJlbG93LCBhbmQgb3JjaGVzdHJhdGlvbiBhbmQgc2VydmljZSBs YXllcnMgYWJvdmUgdGhlIGRhdGEgYW5kIGNvbnRyb2wgcGxhbmVzLiBTRE4gYWltcyB0byBiZW5l Zml0IGFsbCB0eXBlcyBvZiBuZXR3b3JrcywgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHdpcmVsZXNzLCBjZWxsdWxhciwg aG9tZSwgZW50ZXJwcmlzZSwgZGF0YSBjZW50ZXIsIGFuZCB3aWRlLWFyZWEgbmV0d29ya3MuDQpF YXJseSBTRE4gbW9kZWxzIGZvY3VzZWQgcHJpbWFyaWx5IG9uIG1vdmluZyB0aGUgY29udHJvbCBw bGFuZSBvdXQgb2YgdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgZWxlbWVudHMgaW50byAiY29udHJvbGxlcnMiIG9uIHRo ZSBwcmVtaXNlIHRoYXQgdGhlIHN3aXRjaGluZyBlbGVtZW50cyBjb3VsZCByZW1haW4gc2ltcGxl LCBnZW5lcmFsLXB1cnBvc2UsIGFuZCBjb3N0LWVmZmVjdGl2ZSB3aGlsZSBhdCB0aGUgc2FtZSB0 aW1lIGFsbG93aW5nIHRoZSBjb250cm9sIHBsYW5lIHRvIHJhcGlkbHkgZXZvbHZlLiBBIG51bWJl ciBvZiByZWNlbnQgU0ROIG1vZGVscywgb24gdGhlIG90aGVyIGhhbmQsIGluY2x1ZGUgImh5YnJp ZCIgYXBwcm9hY2hlcyBpbiB3aGljaCBjb250cm9sIGFuZCBkYXRhIHBsYW5lIHByb2dyYW1tYWJp bGl0eSB3b3JrcyBpbiBjb25jZXJ0IHdpdGggZXhpc3RpbmcgYW5kIGZ1dHVyZSBkaXN0cmlidXRl ZCBjb250cm9sIHBsYW5lcy4NCg0KVGhlIFNvZnR3YXJlIERlZmluZWQgTmV0d29ya2luZyBSZXNl YXJjaCBHcm91cCAoU0ROUkcpIHdpbGwgY29uc2lkZXIgdmFyaW91cyBTRE4gbW9kZWxzIGFuZCBp bnZlc3RpZ2F0ZSBTRE4gYXMgYSB3aG9sZSBmcm9tIHZhcmlvdXMgcGVyc3BlY3RpdmVzIHdpdGgg dGhlIGdvYWwgb2YgaWRlbnRpZnlpbmcgdGhlIGFwcHJvYWNoZXMgdGhhdCBjYW4gYmUgZGVmaW5l ZCwgZGVwbG95ZWQgYW5kIHVzZWQgaW4gdGhlIG5lYXIgdGVybSBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIGlkZW50aWZ5 aW5nIGZ1dHVyZSByZXNlYXJjaCBjaGFsbGVuZ2VzLiBJbiBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCBrZXkgYXJlYXMg b2YgaW50ZXJlc3QgaW5jbHVkZSBzb2x1dGlvbiBzY2FsYWJpbGl0eSwgYWJzdHJhY3Rpb25zLCBh bmQgcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcgbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIGFuZCBwYXJhZGlnbXMgcGFydGljdWxhcmx5IHVzZWZ1 bCBpbiB0aGUgY29udGV4dCBvZiBTRE4uIEluIGFkZGl0aW9uLCBpdCBpcyBhbiBleHBsaWNpdCBn b2FsIG9mIFNETlJHIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgYW4gYWN0aXZlIGZvcnVtLCBkaXN0aW5jdCBmcm9tIHB1 cmVseSBhY2FkZW1pYyBjb25mZXJlbmNlcywgZm9yIHJlc2VhcmNoZXJzIHRvIGRpc2N1c3Mga2V5 IGFuZCBpbnRlcmVzdGluZyBwcm9ibGVtcyBpbiB0aGUgU29mdHdhcmUgRGVmaW5lZCBOZXR3b3Jr aW5nIGZpZWxkLg0KDQpGaW5hbGx5LCBTRE5SRyBwcm92aWRlcyBvYmplY3RpdmUgZGVmaW5pdGlv bnMsIG1ldHJpY3MgYW5kIGJhY2tncm91bmQgcmVzZWFyY2ggd2l0aCB0aGUgZ29hbCBvZiBwcm92 aWRpbmcgdGhpcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhcyBpbnB1dCB0byBwcm90b2NvbCwgbmV0d29yaywgYW5k IHNlcnZpY2UgZGVzaWduIHRvIG90aGVyIHN0YW5kYXJkcyBwcm9kdWNpbmcgb3JnYW5pemF0aW9u cyBzdWNoIGFzIHRoZSBJRVRGLCBJVFUtVCwgSUVFRSwgT05GLCBNRUYsIGFuZCBETVRGLiANCg0K --_002_8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE27szxeml545mbxchi_-- From dmm@1-4-5.net Thu Nov 15 07:57:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DEA21F850D for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:57:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EOG5yFwSs+uC for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:57:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2AD21F84F8 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so2224282oag.13 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=fgfN3tckQmfUIff27uXUtCfC4O7pHNbyNjtLPFRJ8TA=; b=DVCmV9IPyGHARP92lyIm63tMjX034ML+mjo04MqRZamoVj8VL9Aisg/3l44Gj48nM/ pozPHOhTFAlRsVzN6AUOGu4juY3nEI3jEVKzSpojrL//VYpFu5UCLlaFaGlecC8Aj3jn e/A9smAPKCeCiomnHCvuImdQtbNjZ3wwmINNuQt0u5uK6umI4x3USojnp0h/vQFAQ8iI 84tWk8GnrpQK4CArEcfcs3CxZOHzg4buAJCb5jAmGb3VV7vbtz4DpKVYgAR3kzj+Ngs9 s6EL9GwmisSpwY1k2Sn48q5tPRrn1pb6rTbJgqha2Lef5Y4kSQwMaHhWbbwkhXqvW/JG L3jw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.31.177 with SMTP id b17mr1190302oei.77.1352995065363; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.84.103 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [12.185.136.253] In-Reply-To: <8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE27@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <50A024A8.80203@internet2.edu> <8D38716F0C1A444BA0CD7E96454366C23A4EEE27@szxeml545-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 08:57:45 -0700 Message-ID: From: David Meyer To: Konstantinos Pentikousis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f8388cb40fd3304ce8ab61f X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlZkiB8Fq3698ByVynOXEegv4xgB3Pbna9xqzMU0S4D3PI+otoMh+7pn7pmITc2hcZuZivt Cc: SDN IRTF list , Scott Brim Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:57:49 -0000 --e89a8f8388cb40fd3304ce8ab61f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks all for the comments. I will put up a new version tomorrow (or possibly later today) after I have incorporated everyone's suggestions. --dmm On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Konstantinos Pentikousis < k.pentikousis@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi David, Scott, all, > > |> I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please > |> send them to the list and I'll rev the charter. > | > |Y'know, I had a number of suggested changes and then realized that > |what you have here is pretty good, so I tossed them out. Besides small > |editorial tweaks like spelling, the only change I would suggest is > > I have some editorial suggestions, please see attached. One point to > consider is that the RG should be clearly distinct from other prominent > academic fora on SDN. I think this was already brought up in the meeting. > In addition, the possibility to actively engage with (existing and future) > IETF WGs working in the same area/direction is a distinct advantage of an > RG. Currently, the IETF is listed as just another SDO. > > > > |On 11/10/12 21:35, Russ White allegedly wrote: > |> One thing I think we need to do is add a piece about building a > |> taxonomy of possible SDN solutions, so we can get our arms around > |> this space. For instance, is hybrid really SDN? Is IRS? > |> > |> How can we know what our scope is without knowing what an SDN is? > |> :-) > | > |This is covered in "investigates SDN from various perspectives with > |the goal of identifying the approaches that can be defined, deployed and > |used". It's no longer possible to define something as not SDN a > |priori, so let the scope of the RG be everything that someone claims is > SDN > |(as is stated here), and as per this charter goal, characterize it. > This > |is a good contribution to clarity and knowledge. > > I second this. > > Wrt the areas of interest, isn't "Classification of SDN models and their > relationship to existing IETF work" more like a work item (perhaps akin to > the Taxonomy already proposed) than an "area" of research? > > Items 3 and 5 are interrelated and could be merged. Finally, I'm not sure > why "hybrid models" are singled out. Perhaps "SDN models" is better. > > Best Regards, > > Kostas > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn > > --e89a8f8388cb40fd3304ce8ab61f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks all for the comments. I will put up a new version tomorrow (or possi= bly later today) after I have incorporated everyone's suggestions.
=
--dmm


On Thu, N= ov 15, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Konstantinos Pentikousis <k.pentikousis@hua= wei.com> wrote:
Hi David, Scott, all,

=A0 |> I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so plea= se
=A0 |> send them to the list and I'll rev the charter.
=A0 |
=A0 |Y'know, I had a number of suggested changes and then realized that=
=A0 |what you have here is pretty good, so I tossed them out. =A0Besides sm= all
=A0 |editorial tweaks like spelling, the only change I would suggest is

I have some editorial suggestions, please see attached. One point to = consider is that the RG should be clearly distinct from other prominent aca= demic fora on SDN. I think this was already brought up in the meeting. In a= ddition, the possibility to actively engage with (existing and future) IETF= WGs working in the same area/direction is a distinct advantage of an RG. C= urrently, the IETF is listed as just another SDO.

<snip>

=A0 |On 11/10/12 21:35, Russ White allegedly wrote:
=A0 |> One thing I think we need to do is add a piece about building a =A0 |> taxonomy of possible SDN solutions, so we can get our arms around=
=A0 |> this space. For instance, is hybrid really SDN? Is IRS?
=A0 |>
=A0 |> How can we know what our scope is without knowing what an SDN is?=
=A0 |> :-)
=A0 |
=A0 |This is covered in "investigates SDN from various perspectives wi= th
=A0 |the goal of identifying the approaches that can be defined, deployed a= nd
=A0 |used". =A0It's no longer possible to define something as not = SDN a
=A0 |priori, so let the scope of the RG be everything that someone claims i= s SDN
=A0 |(as is stated here), and as per this charter goal, characterize it. = =A0This
=A0 |is a good contribution to clarity and knowledge.

I second this.

Wrt the areas of interest, isn't "Classification of SDN models and= their relationship to existing IETF work" more like a work item (perh= aps akin to the Taxonomy already proposed) than an "area" of rese= arch?

Items 3 and 5 are interrelated and could be merged. Finally, I'm not su= re why "hybrid models" are singled out. Perhaps "SDN models&= quot; is better.

Best Regards,

Kostas




_______________________________________________
sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.org
htt= ps://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn


--e89a8f8388cb40fd3304ce8ab61f-- From wassim.haddad@ericsson.com Thu Nov 15 10:17:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C17C21F8480 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:17:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C7Yi5vSuc9MB for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DD721F8475 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id qAFIMQuT015179; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:23:27 -0600 Received: from [155.53.121.72] (147.117.20.214) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se (147.117.20.182) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:16:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F4F28167-938B-45D4-8207-B327DBD7F798"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Wassim Haddad In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-ID: References: To: "WRIGHT, STEVEN A" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: Wassim Haddad , "'sdn@irtf.org'" Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:17:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F4F28167-938B-45D4-8207-B327DBD7F798 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 +1 Wassim H. On Nov 15, 2012, at 7:34 AM, WRIGHT, STEVEN A wrote: > From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A=20 > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM > To: David Meyer > Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list > =20 > The charter would benefit from having one or more succinct problem = statement(s). While a taxonomy, framework and use cases can help explore = a subject space, a problem statement provides a focus for the work, and = some means to evaluate whether a particular piece of work is in scope, = or is progressing the topic towards solution of the problem. It would be = desirable to have the problem statement in the charter, though as a = research group, it could also be a deliverable. > =20 > The current charter draft hints at several different problems e.g. = network agility, service velocity, network operation, network debugging = are difficult. While these might all be commercially interesting = problems, it is not necessarily clear that there is a single solution to = all of them. > =20 > A succinct problem statement would also be helpful in clarifying who = has the problem at the focus of the group=92s work. Is this a problem = space for equipment designers? Network operators? General internet = users? This clarification would help those researchers constrained to = work on commercially relevant problems to engage appropriately. >=20 > =20 > Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD. > Lead Member of Technical Staff >=20 > AT&T Services Inc. > Strategic Standards > 1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D28 > Atlanta, GA 30319 > P: 404.499.7030 >=20 > sw3588@att.com >=20 > =20 > From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of = David Meyer > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM > To: SDN IRTF list > Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list > =20 > Folks, > =20 > I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please = send them to the list and I'll rev the charter. > =20 > Thnx, > =20 > --dmm > =20 > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn --Apple-Mail=_F4F28167-938B-45D4-8207-B327DBD7F798 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIEMzCCBC8w ggMXoAMCAQICEEsT0774h8pPcwPnuDLeUUMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMDAzMzAxODIz NDBaFw0xMzAzMzAxODIzMzdaMGgxETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMRYwFAYDVQQDDA1XYXNzaW0g SGFkZGFkMRAwDgYDVQQFEwdld2FzaGFkMSkwJwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhp3YXNzaW0uaGFkZGFkQGVy aWNzc29uLmNvbTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAwhbvns8nRIfMqBzMIYtVsh9p PMqieEKmX3HwjUkR82kGvcoJvb1NbXyO2jucyergVeNF0F3pSgjTJkdvTBHYQhiHOKauVqRjmdSB Jcdb5H2aPjVXKlGw/BZvixe7m+zOk3TdE4Ln0Aw2ZPh9deacCgkknPKUCQq+KMOtetGyPpECAwEA AaOCAYYwggGCMIHABgNVHR8EgbgwgbUwgbKgga+ggayGN2h0dHA6Ly9jcmwudHJ1c3QudGVsaWEu Y29tL0VyaWNzc29uTkxJbmRpdmlkdWFsQ0EwMS5jcmyGcWxkYXA6Ly9sZGFwLnRydXN0LnRlbGlh LmNvbS9jbj1Fcmljc3NvbiUyME5MJTIwSW5kaXZpZHVhbCUyMENBMDEsbz1Fcmljc3Nvbj9jZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZXJldm9jYXRpb25saXN0O2JpbmFyeT9iYXNlMCUGA1UdEQQeMByBGndhc3NpbS5oYWRk YWRAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tMEYGA1UdIAQ/MD0wOwYGKoVwawEBMDEwLwYIKwYBBQUHAgEWI2h0dHA6 Ly93d3cuZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tL2xlZ2FsLnNodG1sMB0GA1UdDgQWBBTqddQ5pEKVXhGm48HVzc0/ hXtRkzAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBSWJ8O43qVfXUQ+OVLlRbF2X2MwmzAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBaAwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAH+CrRJM2GiRfddo3Js+4AtvmipHkXWS6U/u4oW17FONKhJkNAxh0/VE moUaXIVBaC9333NWugdMl2OITlfDUs2ODQJUb1rGF+tWhbDevMsnyR0s/2Om7hmfNr3vmLSMEIGC M9DjH80tzFc9xzWDHae33Mt8K0/uNYamhrcue7tE/UoFmtdLmkQ8f+qiMYfVzLguE+u6NmvXWiM1 +H01SvXPPYBjttNu4xYUsfLa1jGKjYhDGhcJhsmhDTvtWSqo7nDDlTIwpQ7sfuZo5k+iZ7GHcw9E KFxM8XFgyqaRKnzq4w5kt/GvZpgARJF/sl8KFKJZUz7VMZdXGOqNGdjaidExggISMIICDgIBATBN MDkxETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMSQwIgYDVQQDDBtFcmljc3NvbiBOTCBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIENB MDECEEsT0774h8pPcwPnuDLeUUMwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCARswGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3 DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTIxMTE1MTgxNzA2WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUNldV4HGS hUG8ToTpTf2eHFgkrWowXAYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMU8wTTA5MREwDwYDVQQKDAhFcmljc3NvbjEkMCIG A1UEAwwbRXJpY3Nzb24gTkwgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBDQTAxAhBLE9O++IfKT3MD57gy3lFDMF4GCyqG SIb3DQEJEAILMU+gTTA5MREwDwYDVQQKDAhFcmljc3NvbjEkMCIGA1UEAwwbRXJpY3Nzb24gTkwg SW5kaXZpZHVhbCBDQTAxAhBLE9O++IfKT3MD57gy3lFDMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIGAgn7uhMr6 IWcrPom1dGaWp6fmfn3OmGT8xVTEOb6M1LzJVx+kIzCSMZl/+41JuGDOLY4tXq1E6QF+vt8gTwf4 OPGacpqv/dBo2bQQY1CpE7NbLoqoGiczyBDn1E4HxUKbeXxWp2UX8r+evnGt5py/2kO7baM2INtM H1aduj0fZyUAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_F4F28167-938B-45D4-8207-B327DBD7F798-- From sbarkai@gmail.com Thu Nov 15 12:41:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEBA21F84D5 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:41:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wVJbxVBjZiW3 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:41:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A4421F84C6 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:41:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id wz12so1529552pbc.13 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:41:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=eQzT1zE68CgmNR9ZvtMLT5UtVJvWu/kAtoN7N1btbUQ=; b=yJAg8vrriX3Glde9PyhZgy3EVcDyIcs0jScqhQOhG2BQy4zF764qnyvkyOz/ZD5uUb OONGDQDHp4fPQNNqk8yMDeganMTwT1l3K53fn+/XwvETsfxJFnmIKQU7bgW4Ub4/49CX FOy3jrbrlVcFq6xEoTqKA9TSqKiW9dp/9S8hMWSIGENJ7T0ddab6FhtLAbZnIGzywkzS veiGCLvkTDvlRKf0AaYcPBWY7PBUalgi0bH3K/5GRjrxQtfzylWsio+Nfq36gpYKvQnO eOYBdGSOXlkSpxIHGpwJuPUzXmM6W/B0fAtaTZrqX7vA/uLp1r+3oo3ogG60DRlVbXeE DX0Q== Received: by 10.66.88.136 with SMTP id bg8mr6481594pab.54.1353012084836; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.42] (c-98-248-50-45.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [98.248.50.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m8sm10229852pax.38.2012.11.15.12.41.23 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:41:23 -0800 (PST) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-DA5CC849-36A8-4454-B8BD-1610C5DF3835 Message-Id: <9FD7373E-2CDE-4FF7-9B0E-CB61EEB9A932@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A523) From: Sharon Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:41:25 -0800 To: Wassim Haddad Cc: "WRIGHT, STEVEN A" , Wassim Haddad , "sdn@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:41:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail-DA5CC849-36A8-4454-B8BD-1610C5DF3835 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What brought about the strong interest in SDN are problems associated with c= onnecting compute and storage virtualization. The fact that virtualized endp= oints move is one aspect that makes traditional network virtualization (VLAN= S, VPNs, VP/VC) insufficient (tied to interfaces).=20 However a key other aspect often referred to is the need for better Programa= bility. Why better? Because the network is required to perform additional functions -= dynamically linking (compiler was a term also used in the atlanta session) v= irtualized functional components into cloud solutions. That's new.=20 Bellow is a link to a carrier cloud problem statement published by key provi= ders. This problem can benefit greatly from better network Programability. https:/= /www.dropbox.com/s/t1irp2nhoz131xy/NFV_White_Paper.pdf In short the problem statement can be about new requirements brought about b= y cloud networking that can be addressed by an additional, software-defined n= etworking layer, on top of IPvN, controlled by programable flows based on global-software awa= reness. =20 On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:17, Wassim Haddad wrote:= +1 Wassim H. On Nov 15, 2012, at 7:34 AM, WRIGHT, STEVEN A wrote: > From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A=20 > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM > To: David Meyer > Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list >=20 > The charter would benefit from having one or more succinct problem stateme= nt(s). While a taxonomy, framework and use cases can help explore a subject s= pace, a problem statement provides a focus for the work, and some means to e= valuate whether a particular piece of work is in scope, or is progressing th= e topic towards solution of the problem. It would be desirable to have the p= roblem statement in the charter, though as a research group, it could also b= e a deliverable. >=20 > The current charter draft hints at several different problems e.g. network= agility, service velocity, network operation, network debugging are difficu= lt. While these might all be commercially interesting problems, it is not ne= cessarily clear that there is a single solution to all of them. >=20 > A succinct problem statement would also be helpful in clarifying who has t= he problem at the focus of the group=E2=80=99s work. Is this a problem space= for equipment designers? Network operators? General internet users? This cl= arification would help those researchers constrained to work on commercially= relevant problems to engage appropriately. >=20 >=20 > Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD. > Lead Member of Technical Staff >=20 > AT&T Services Inc. > Strategic Standards > 1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D28 > Atlanta, GA 30319 > P: 404.499.7030 >=20 > sw3588@att.com >=20 >=20 > From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Davi= d Meyer > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM > To: SDN IRTF list > Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list >=20 > Folks, >=20 > I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send t= hem to the list and I'll rev the charter. >=20 > Thnx, >=20 > --dmm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn _______________________________________________ sdn mailing list sdn@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn --Apple-Mail-DA5CC849-36A8-4454-B8BD-1610C5DF3835 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What brought about the strong interest in SDN are proble= ms associated with connecting compute and storage virtualization. The fact t= hat virtualized endpoints move is one aspect that makes traditional network v= irtualization (VLANS, VPNs, VP/VC) insufficient (tied to interfaces). <= /div>
However a key other asp= ect often referred to is the need for better Programability.

Why better? Because the network is required to perform a= dditional functions - dynamically linking (compiler was a term also used in t= he atlanta session) virtualized functional components into cloud solutions. T= hat's new. 

Bellow is a link to a ca= rrier cloud problem statement published by key providers.
This problem can benefit greatly from bet= ter network Programability. https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1irp2nhoz131xy/NFV= _White_Paper.pdf
In short the problem= statement can be about new requirements brought about by cloud networking t= hat can be addressed by an additional, software-defined networking laye= r,
on top of IPvN, cont= rolled by programable flows based on global-software awareness.


 


On N= ov 15, 2012, at 10:17, Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com> wrote:

+1


Wassim H.

On Nov 15, 2= 012, at 7:34 AM, WRIGHT, STEVEN A wrote:

From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM
To: David Meyer
Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send cha= rter comments to the list
<= span>
The charter wou= ld benefit from having one or more succinct problem statement(s). While a ta= xonomy, framework and use cases can help explore a subject space, a problem s= tatement provides a focus for the work, and some means to evaluate whether a= particular piece of work is in scope, or is progressing the topic towards s= olution of the problem. It would be desirable to have the problem statement i= n the charter, though as a research group, it could also be a deliverable.

The current charter draft hints at several= different problems e.g. network agility, service velocity, network operatio= n, network debugging are difficult. While these might all be commercially in= teresting problems, it is not necessarily clear that there is a single solut= ion to all of them.
<= /span>
A succinct problem st= atement would also be helpful in clarifying who has the problem at the focus= of the group=E2=80=99s work. Is this a problem space for equipment designer= s? Network operators? General internet users? This clarification would help t= hose researchers constrained to work on commercially relevant problems to en= gage appropriately.
<= /span>

Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD.
Lead Member of Technical Staff

AT&T Services Inc.
Strategic Standards
1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D28
Atlanta, GA 30319
<= /blockquote>
P: 404.499.7030

sw3588@att.com

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
From: sdn-bounces@irtf.or= g [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of David Meyer
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM
To: SDN IRTF list
Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to th= e list

Folks,

I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please s= end them to the list and I'll rev the charter.

= Thnx,
--dmm
=

_______________________________________________
sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.= org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listin= fo/sdn

_________________________________________= ______
sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn<= br>
= --Apple-Mail-DA5CC849-36A8-4454-B8BD-1610C5DF3835-- From edc@google.com Thu Nov 15 12:51:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A109A21F84C5 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:51:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.708 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.708 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TZy33sEeNIlF for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F7521F8509 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id g24so1655742qab.13 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:51:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=YRSwdNZOy2esaTiOAB8kbf3r7TCsRqboob58JEi1iUA=; b=UfCJsJGR6USCwK4wLu3fM4HMSS43nT6GldqOkHfUnFtP60waVI1uS0XbEfohu9SbLs D7/e+iF0458/hVLokgXLF/tt7OtUcOmDZg5AoSWDGx7TEIqg6ROJOgYvvnweh6cpH3cE f1ulfuvlEwuTzflLVVtk3QZzJE7Qd2rF+OLKjNkD2GdNzP69p/QAeBjQpaW/alP2+U36 HMaojpeq2PlaPneYocn5h9iYd35YzEMBHtGeKNI0y7h2hZlj7Kp77PJhHNmkRnufaHpe iR5PNp8BCMwo3kzhc2z/2/gyQaFsT0G6T8i67i8QUWXU7wa0RZtNdeMIJsWrPks46eHD 3pAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=YRSwdNZOy2esaTiOAB8kbf3r7TCsRqboob58JEi1iUA=; b=pTfpU5ADqIfLBnNt9HpY0peSIgfJ2FV5O+JPbhGm13In2oa5C51IQB95hEFFu4Pejh YmDCM195PLWtQb+uxezQHjceq9ezps+ZFV2Oma6Ryk+KJ9ZeT44OH++QdVL+923SOoXX EO1Kv/35LdAjAwYoMNWKFTmon0QXAG3r82gApyoVEnS9culJWIa5O4nSqaDKUHIusiJr mqvbTv3jCI15fkVBnE+Pep9vnEnGHrkV8swHVwSwXAp5py5r58kmreyMbG5CyyvcBqk8 Qk/VvPK6pFej7lhD3dlwfP+PVUPT7dWCne0SV95KNFM1UxI3LIfnOLw3jppA/DYeUwtD XVNQ== Received: by 10.224.31.20 with SMTP id w20mr2490140qac.3.1353012717537; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:51:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.131.167 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:51:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9FD7373E-2CDE-4FF7-9B0E-CB61EEB9A932@gmail.com> References: <9FD7373E-2CDE-4FF7-9B0E-CB61EEB9A932@gmail.com> From: Edward Crabbe Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:51:15 -0800 Message-ID: To: Sharon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3074b37667c9c604ce8ed2df X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnJfp/bibLs4y0YrOdvBrLdiWt4vzWQlEhTktPGpgcP1hIWRbZWGGWBdn/RmZK0joKfF6OhrQe9o3Wqr4C6qlzbKUGIXMGzNqAmBckawMPeWWdv+1UM2Q+rFtsi174yzW1MJXcTnB7YxVj1XFOXZCSJRoSpuGQSJTchXM7CwhND1bxvR+r3Q0Xw5Y/bQA9BeWvs54ib Cc: "WRIGHT, STEVEN A" , Wassim Haddad , "sdn@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:51:59 -0000 --20cf3074b37667c9c604ce8ed2df Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable comments inline: On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Sharon wrote: > > What brought about the strong interest in SDN are problems associated wit= h > connecting compute and storage virtualization. The fact that virtualized > endpoints move is one aspect that makes traditional network virtualizatio= n > (VLANS, VPNs, VP/VC) insufficient (tied to interfaces). > However a key other aspect often referred to is the need for better > Programability. > I disagree with this characterization. This is certainly a member of the SDN problem set, but by no means the only or even the primary use case. Look at RCP, ethane, others. > > Why better? Because the network is required to perform additional > functions - dynamically linking (compiler was a term also used in the > atlanta session) virtualized functional components into cloud solutions. > That's new. > You don't actually need to have this level of sophistication to reap real benefits from being able to program ephemeral state (but it sure would be nice ;). > > Bellow is a link to a carrier cloud problem statement published by key > providers. > This problem can benefit greatly from better network Programability. > https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1irp2nhoz131xy/NFV_White_Paper.pdf > > In short the problem statement can be about new requirements brought abou= t > by cloud networking that can be addressed by an additional, > software-defined networking layer, > on top of IPvN, controlled by programable flows based on global-software > awareness. > s/the problem statement/a problem statement/ > > > > > > On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:17, Wassim Haddad > wrote: > > +1 > > > Wassim H. > > On Nov 15, 2012, at 7:34 AM, WRIGHT, STEVEN A wrote: > > From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A > > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM > > To: David Meyer > > Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list > > > The charter would benefit from having one or more succinct problem > statement(s). While a taxonomy, framework and use cases can help explore = a > subject space, a problem statement provides a focus for the work, and som= e > means to evaluate whether a particular piece of work is in scope, or is > progressing the topic towards solution of the problem. It would be > desirable to have the problem statement in the charter, though as a > research group, it could also be a deliverable. > > > The current charter draft hints at several different problems e.g. networ= k > agility, service velocity, network operation, network debugging are > difficult. While these might all be commercially interesting problems, it > is not necessarily clear that there is a single solution to all of them. > > > A succinct problem statement would also be helpful in clarifying who has > the problem at the focus of the group=92s work. Is this a problem space f= or > equipment designers? Network operators? General internet users? This > clarification would help those researchers constrained to work on > commercially relevant problems to engage appropriately. > > > > Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD. > > Lead Member of Technical Staff > > > AT&T Services Inc. > > Strategic Standards > > 1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D28 > > Atlanta, GA 30319 > > P: 404.499.7030 > > > sw3588@att.com > > > > From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] > On Behalf Of David Meyer > > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM > > To: SDN IRTF list > > Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list > > > Folks, > > > I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send > them to the list and I'll rev the charter. > > > Thnx, > > > --dmm > > > _______________________________________________ > > sdn mailing list > > sdn@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn > > > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn > > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn > > --20cf3074b37667c9c604ce8ed2df Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
commen= ts inline:


On Thu, Nov 15= , 2012 at 12:41 PM, Sharon <sbarkai@gmail.com> wrote:

What b= rought about the strong interest in SDN are problems associated with connec= ting compute and storage virtualization. The fact that virtualized endpoint= s move is one aspect that makes traditional network virtualization (VLANS, = VPNs, VP/VC) insufficient (tied to interfaces).=A0
However a key other aspect often referred to is the need for better Pr= ogramability.

I disagree with t= his characterization. =A0This is certainly a member of the SDN problem set,= but by no means the only or even the primary use case. =A0 Look at RCP, et= hane, others.=A0
=A0

Why better? Because the network is required to perform additional f= unctions - dynamically linking (compiler was a term also used in the atlant= a session) virtualized functional components into cloud solutions. That'= ;s new.=A0

You don't actually need to have = this level of sophistication to reap real benefits from being able to progr= am ephemeral state (but it sure would be nice ;).=A0
=A0

Bellow is a link to a carrier cloud p= roblem statement published by key providers.
This problem can ben= efit greatly from better network Programability.=A0https:/= /www.dropbox.com/s/t1irp2nhoz131xy/NFV_White_Paper.pdf

In short the problem statement can be about new require= ments brought about by cloud networking that can be addressed by an additio= nal, software-defined networking=A0layer,
on top of IPvN, control= led by programable flows based on global-software awareness.

s/the problem statement/a problem st= atement/

=A0
<= div dir=3D"auto">


=A0

On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:17, Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com> w= rote:

+1


W= assim H.

On Nov 15, 2012, at 7:34 AM, WRIG= HT, STEVEN A wrote:

From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">To: David Meyer
Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list

The charter would benefit from having one or mor= e succinct problem statement(s). While a taxonomy, framework and use cases = can help explore a subject space, a problem statement provides a focus for = the work, and some means to evaluate whether a particular piece of work is = in scope, or is progressing the topic towards solution of the problem. It w= ould be desirable to have the problem statement in the charter, though as a= research group, it could also be a deliverable.

The current charter draft hints at several differ= ent problems e.g. network agility, service velocity, network operation, net= work debugging are difficult. While these might all be commercially interes= ting problems, it is not necessarily clear that there is a single solution = to all of them.

A succinct problem statement would also be helpfu= l in clarifying who has the problem at the focus of the group=92s work. Is = this a problem space for equipment designers? Network operators? General in= ternet users? This clarification would help those researchers constrained t= o work on commercially relevant problems to engage appropriately.


Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD.
Lead Member of Technical Staff

AT= &T Services Inc.
Strategic Standards
1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4= D28
Atlanta, GA 3031= 9
P: 404.499.7030

sw3588@att.com


From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of David= Meyer
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2= 012 12:13 PM
To: SDN= IRTF list
Subject: = [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list

Folks,

I want= to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send them to = the list and I'll rev the charter.

Thnx,

--dmm

_______________________________________________
sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn

____________________________= ___________________
sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.org
h= ttps://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn

_______________________________________________=
sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.org
htt= ps://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn


--20cf3074b37667c9c604ce8ed2df-- From sbarkai@gmail.com Thu Nov 15 21:32:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sdn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0861921E8047 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:32:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9JwZOPj1Dtt3 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com (mail-pa0-f54.google.com [209.85.220.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D703C21E8043 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id kp6so1729812pab.13 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:31:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=LqZqMDy7LgFgQ/jeDShVTArTob2RaI+utYgN9yhXMVY=; b=eZtrXvqklRKfijCOU3NDOnaW+GJ9dXQPKY2KwPcH+kUsvn9+EpM8loNIHE6RUERnrO rkJIitGHcIcEu9u7Wnb+2WvkLGNul941sAzqr++H/59Xvi0uXNcgTTfFi9g1lJcOfHp6 GXlbc4qBTY9NddoVcW5JJjGyjStkLrN1rT5QMXC87zxIS7zHdvEdTI0MNrW4KhTrqoat QBVS+LZ8drfMT5DJN0TazXRuQkxoyb3hVFt/cCuKgWJGj3sxzouOFZzWchHWRVs9ZLTC te4C1aXYjmJ7uEIDPvecqiIV1J/HoDlAD2lY+DqbagM4mSopIcihVPo56TfZNvnk3aV5 toIA== Received: by 10.68.240.36 with SMTP id vx4mr5862401pbc.90.1353043919596; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.42] (c-98-248-50-45.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [98.248.50.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n11sm624803pby.67.2012.11.15.21.31.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:31:58 -0800 (PST) References: <9FD7373E-2CDE-4FF7-9B0E-CB61EEB9A932@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9096E14C-B4AA-4C61-A261-689238ED75A0 Message-Id: <913758CB-9CCA-4C56-87EC-4B13E90C8691@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A523) From: Sharon Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:31:57 -0800 To: Edward Crabbe Cc: "WRIGHT, STEVEN A" , Wassim Haddad , "sdn@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list X-BeenThere: sdn@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List to Discuss SDN Research Group in the IRTF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 05:32:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail-9096E14C-B4AA-4C61-A261-689238ED75A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Think I get the point .. too constrictive.. Perhaps look at the "problem" statement differently - 1) there is now a capability (programable merchant silicon) and a trend to d= ecouple network control from packet forwarding =20 2) this trend opens up an opportunities to think about network control plane= s in an out of the forwarding box manner, enable new innovation in solving a= ge old networking challenges (manageability, mass customization, services ..= .) and also take on new ones (cloud etc.) 3) this trend also has the risk of wiping out years of accumulated work in b= uild control structures that scale and re-inventing lots of old wheels under= new named .. the hard way .. The goal therefore is to define a structure and architecture that can open u= p network control to software defined innovation in a way that extends exist= ing capabilities and fixes only what's broken in an incremental and modular m= anner, guided by proven ietf processes & practices On Nov 15, 2012, at 12:51, Edward Crabbe wrote: comments inline: On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Sharon wrote: >=20 > What brought about the strong interest in SDN are problems associated with= connecting compute and storage virtualization. The fact that virtualized en= dpoints move is one aspect that makes traditional network virtualization (VL= ANS, VPNs, VP/VC) insufficient (tied to interfaces).=20 > However a key other aspect often referred to is the need for better Progra= mability. I disagree with this characterization. This is certainly a member of the SD= N problem set, but by no means the only or even the primary use case. Look= at RCP, ethane, others.=20 =20 >=20 > Why better? Because the network is required to perform additional function= s - dynamically linking (compiler was a term also used in the atlanta sessio= n) virtualized functional components into cloud solutions. That's new.=20 You don't actually need to have this level of sophistication to reap real be= nefits from being able to program ephemeral state (but it sure would be nice= ;).=20 =20 >=20 > Bellow is a link to a carrier cloud problem statement published by key pro= viders. > This problem can benefit greatly from better network Programability. https= ://www.dropbox.com/s/t1irp2nhoz131xy/NFV_White_Paper.pdf >=20 > In short the problem statement can be about new requirements brought about= by cloud networking that can be addressed by an additional, software-define= d networking layer, > on top of IPvN, controlled by programable flows based on global-software a= wareness. s/the problem statement/a problem statement/ =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:17, Wassim Haddad wrot= e: >=20 > +1 >=20 >=20 > Wassim H. >=20 > On Nov 15, 2012, at 7:34 AM, WRIGHT, STEVEN A wrote: >=20 >> From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A=20 >> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM >> To: David Meyer >> Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list >>=20 >> The charter would benefit from having one or more succinct problem statem= ent(s). While a taxonomy, framework and use cases can help explore a subject= space, a problem statement provides a focus for the work, and some means to= evaluate whether a particular piece of work is in scope, or is progressing t= he topic towards solution of the problem. It would be desirable to have the p= roblem statement in the charter, though as a research group, it could also b= e a deliverable. >>=20 >> The current charter draft hints at several different problems e.g. networ= k agility, service velocity, network operation, network debugging are diffic= ult. While these might all be commercially interesting problems, it is not n= ecessarily clear that there is a single solution to all of them. >>=20 >> A succinct problem statement would also be helpful in clarifying who has t= he problem at the focus of the group=E2=80=99s work. Is this a problem space= for equipment designers? Network operators? General internet users? This cl= arification would help those researchers constrained to work on commercially= relevant problems to engage appropriately. >>=20 >>=20 >> Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD. >> Lead Member of Technical Staff >>=20 >> AT&T Services Inc. >> Strategic Standards >> 1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D28 >> Atlanta, GA 30319 >> P: 404.499.7030 >>=20 >> sw3588@att.com >>=20 >>=20 >> From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Dav= id Meyer >> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM >> To: SDN IRTF list >> Subject: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list >>=20 >> Folks, >>=20 >> I want to sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send t= hem to the list and I'll rev the charter. >>=20 >> Thnx, >>=20 >> --dmm >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> sdn mailing list >> sdn@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sdn mailing list > sdn@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn --Apple-Mail-9096E14C-B4AA-4C61-A261-689238ED75A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Think I get the point .. too constrict= ive..

Perhaps look at the "problem" statement diffe= rently -

1) there is now a capability (programable m= erchant silicon) and a trend to decouple network control from packet forward= ing  
2) this trend opens up an opportunities to think about n= etwork control planes in an out of the forwarding box manner, enable new inn= ovation in solving age old networking challenges (manageability, mass custom= ization, services ...)  and also take on new ones (cloud etc.)
3) this trend also has the risk of wiping out years of accumulated work in= build control structures that scale and re-inventing lots of old wheels und= er new named .. the hard way ..

The goal therefore i= s to define a structure and architecture that can open up network control to= software defined innovation in a way that extends existing capabilities and= fixes only what's broken in an incremental and modular manner, guided by pr= oven ietf processes & practices



On Nov 1= 5, 2012, at 12:51, Edward Crabbe <edc@g= oogle.com> wrote:

comments inline:


=
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Sharon <sbarkai= @gmail.com> wrote:

What bro= ught about the strong interest in SDN are problems associated with connectin= g compute and storage virtualization. The fact that virtualized endpoints mo= ve is one aspect that makes traditional network virtualization (VLANS, VPNs,= VP/VC) insufficient (tied to interfaces). 
However a key other aspect often referred to is the need for better Pro= gramability.

I disagree with thi= s characterization.  This is certainly a member of the SDN problem set,= but by no means the only or even the primary use case.   Look at RCP, e= thane, others. 
 

Why better? Because the network is required to perform additional f= unctions - dynamically linking (compiler was a term also used in the atlanta= session) virtualized functional components into cloud solutions. That's new= . 

You don't actually need to have this l= evel of sophistication to reap real benefits from being able to program ephe= meral state (but it sure would be nice ;). 
 

Bellow is a link to a carrier cloud pr= oblem statement published by key providers.
This problem can benef= it greatly from better network Programability. https://= www.dropbox.com/s/t1irp2nhoz131xy/NFV_White_Paper.pdf

In short the problem statement can be about new requirem= ents brought about by cloud networking that can be addressed by an additiona= l, software-defined networking layer,
on top of IPvN, control= led by programable flows based on global-software awareness.

s/the problem statement/a problem sta= tement/

 
<= div dir=3D"auto">


 
<= br>
On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:17, Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com> w= rote:

+1


Wa= ssim H.

On Nov 15, 2012, at 7:34 AM, WRIGHT= , STEVEN A wrote:

From: WRIGHT, STEVEN A
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:25 AM
To: David Meyer
Subject: RE: [Sdn] please send charter comments to the list
=

The charter would benefit from having one or more s= uccinct problem statement(s). While a taxonomy, framework and use cases can h= elp explore a subject space, a problem statement provides a focus for the wo= rk, and some means to evaluate whether a particular piece of work is in scop= e, or is progressing the topic towards solution of the problem. It would be d= esirable to have the problem statement in the charter, though as a research g= roup, it could also be a deliverable.

The current charter draft hints at several differen= t problems e.g. network agility, service velocity, network operation, networ= k debugging are difficult. While these might all be commercially interesting= problems, it is not necessarily clear that there is a single solution to al= l of them.

A succinct problem statement would also be helpful i= n clarifying who has the problem at the focus of the group=E2=80=99s work. I= s this a problem space for equipment designers? Network operators? General i= nternet users? This clarification would help those researchers constrained t= o work on commercially relevant problems to engage appropriately.
=


<= span>Steven Wright, MBA, PhD, JD.
Lead Member of Technical Staff

AT&a= mp;T Services Inc.
St= rategic Standards
1057 Lenox Park Blvd NE, STE 4D= 28
Atlanta, GA 30319<= /span>
P: 404.499.7030<= br>

sw3588@att.com
<= /span>

From: sdn-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:sdn-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of David Mey= er
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 20= 12 12:13 PM
To: SDN I= RTF list
Subject: [Sd= n] please send charter comments to the list

Folks,

I want to= sharpen up the charter with your ideas/comments so please send them to the l= ist and I'll rev the charter.

Thnx,

--dmm

_______________________________________________
sdn mailing list<= br>
sdn@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn

_____________________________= __________________
sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.org
https://= www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn

_______________________________________________<= br> sdn mailing list
sdn@irtf.org
http= s://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn


= --Apple-Mail-9096E14C-B4AA-4C61-A261-689238ED75A0--