From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 1 04:59:10 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02604 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:59:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h31AMof15487 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:22:50 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31AMoK15484 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:22:50 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02591 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31AM0K15460; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:22:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31AKgK15429 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:20:42 -0500 Received: from gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02547 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:56:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg (mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg [137.132.31.243]) by gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (8.12.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h319xPGi000285 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:59:25 +0800 (SGT) Received: from galadriel ([172.16.2.150]) by mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:51:26 +0800 Message-ID: <003801c2f834$ed046030$960210ac@galadriel> From: "Raymond J. Jayabal" To: Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:56:11 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] New Draft - CT & FMIPv6 Interactions in an L2-ST Anticipative Handover Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Just submitted a draft on CT & FMIPv6 in a special handover case. Hope you can read & provide some comments on how plausible it is: Link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rjaya-ct-fmip6-l2st-ant-ho-00. txt Abstract: This draft was submitted to obtain comments for an experimental work in progress. It presents Fast Mobile IPv6 and Context Transfer interactions for a specific case of contextful, anticipative, network controlled and Layer-2 source-triggered IPv6 handover where one or more candidate access routers can be identified for selection as target. It is also meant to illustrate a case where it might be useful to: a) have Context Transfer messages as but options in handover negotiation messages (e.g., Fast MIPv6's HI/HACK messages) between Access Routers. b) have an additional flag in the Context Transfer Protocol Context Transfer Data message which indicates whether the new Access Router should install any context at all given that any one context fails to be installed. c) not make the Fast MIPv6 FBU/FBACK message exchanges mandatory where Layer-2 triggers are adequate, and lax the message sequence requirements of PrRtAdv and HI/HACK by the old Access Router in such a situation. Best wishes, Ray ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Raymond J. Jayabal | ICR, A-STAR jraymond@icr.a-star.edu.sg | 20 Science Park Rd #02-34/37 Tel: +65 6870 9330 | Singapore 117674 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From seamoby-admin@ietf.org Tue Apr 1 05:01:10 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA02675 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:01:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31AM0K15460; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:22:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31AKgK15429 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:20:42 -0500 Received: from gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02547 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:56:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg (mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg [137.132.31.243]) by gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (8.12.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h319xPGi000285 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:59:25 +0800 (SGT) Received: from galadriel ([172.16.2.150]) by mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:51:26 +0800 Message-ID: <003801c2f834$ed046030$960210ac@galadriel> From: "Raymond J. Jayabal" To: Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:56:11 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] New Draft - CT & FMIPv6 Interactions in an L2-ST Anticipative Handover Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Just submitted a draft on CT & FMIPv6 in a special handover case. Hope you can read & provide some comments on how plausible it is: Link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rjaya-ct-fmip6-l2st-ant-ho-00. txt Abstract: This draft was submitted to obtain comments for an experimental work in progress. It presents Fast Mobile IPv6 and Context Transfer interactions for a specific case of contextful, anticipative, network controlled and Layer-2 source-triggered IPv6 handover where one or more candidate access routers can be identified for selection as target. It is also meant to illustrate a case where it might be useful to: a) have Context Transfer messages as but options in handover negotiation messages (e.g., Fast MIPv6's HI/HACK messages) between Access Routers. b) have an additional flag in the Context Transfer Protocol Context Transfer Data message which indicates whether the new Access Router should install any context at all given that any one context fails to be installed. c) not make the Fast MIPv6 FBU/FBACK message exchanges mandatory where Layer-2 triggers are adequate, and lax the message sequence requirements of PrRtAdv and HI/HACK by the old Access Router in such a situation. Best wishes, Ray ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Raymond J. Jayabal | ICR, A-STAR jraymond@icr.a-star.edu.sg | 20 Science Park Rd #02-34/37 Tel: +65 6870 9330 | Singapore 117674 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 1 06:48:47 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04722 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:48:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h31CCUg22475 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:12:30 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31CCUK22472 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:12:30 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04656 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:48:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31CCBK22460; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:12:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31C7QK22244 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:07:26 -0500 Received: from phoebe.eim.surrey.ac.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04453 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:43:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccsrmclt03.ee.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.86.163] helo=eim.surrey.ac.uk ident=ees2mg) by phoebe.eim.surrey.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #4) id 190KCo-0006BP-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:45:30 +0100 Message-ID: <3E897BDA.1368A96@eim.surrey.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:45:30 +0100 From: Michael Georgiades Organization: University of Surrey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.18-17.7.x i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: seamoby Subject: [Seamoby] Context Transfer Extension to Cellular-IP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-108.7 required=5.5 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,HTML_10_20,USER_IN_WHITELIST version=2.50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Scanner: exiscan *190KCo-0006BP-00*6ojYCCr2eK2* (SECM, UniS) Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, We have recently submitted a draft proposing to enhance cellular-IP with a Context Transfer mechanism. Could you please provide us with your comments and feedback on the ideas proposed. Title : Context Transfer Extension to Cellular-IP Filename : draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt Abstract: This Internet draft enhances cellular-IP mobility protocol with a Context Transfer mechanism aiming to further optimise the handoff operation in mobile networks. Within a cellular-IP domain, during the handoff from one cellular-IP base station to another, cellular-IP packets could be used to initiate and transfer authorised context from the previous cellular-IP base station via the cellular-IP gateway to the new cellular-IP base station. This draft presents how the context transfer extension introduced could facilitate in reducing latency and packet loss by avoiding the signalling required between the mobile node and the new base station in re-establishing the desired state information. The URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt Kind regards, Mike -- Michael Georgiades Research Fellow Centre for Communication Systems Research University of Surrey Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7XH Tel: +44 (0) 1483 683605 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 686011 www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/ccsr --------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hi all,
We have recently submitted a draft proposing to enhance cellular-IP
with a Context Transfer mechanism.  Could you please provide us with 
your comments and feedback on the ideas proposed.

        Title           : Context Transfer Extension to Cellular-IP
        Filename        : draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt

Abstract:

This Internet draft enhances cellular-IP mobility protocol with a
Context Transfer mechanism aiming to further optimise the handoff 
operation in mobile networks. Within a cellular-IP domain, during the
handoff from one cellular-IP base station to another, cellular-IP
packets could be  used to initiate and transfer authorised context
from the previous cellular-IP base station via the cellular-IP
gateway to the new cellular-IP base station. This draft presents how 
the context transfer extension introduced could facilitate in
reducing latency and packet loss by avoiding the signalling required 
between the mobile node and the new base station  in  re-establishing
the desired state information.

The URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt


Kind regards,

Mike
-- 
Michael Georgiades
Research Fellow
Centre for Communication Systems Research
University of Surrey
Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7XH

Tel: +44 (0) 1483 683605
Fax: +44 (0) 1483 686011
www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/ccsr
  --------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E-- _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From seamoby-admin@ietf.org Tue Apr 1 06:49:26 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04907 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:49:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31CCBK22460; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:12:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31C7QK22244 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:07:26 -0500 Received: from phoebe.eim.surrey.ac.uk (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04453 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:43:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccsrmclt03.ee.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.86.163] helo=eim.surrey.ac.uk ident=ees2mg) by phoebe.eim.surrey.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #4) id 190KCo-0006BP-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:45:30 +0100 Message-ID: <3E897BDA.1368A96@eim.surrey.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:45:30 +0100 From: Michael Georgiades Organization: University of Surrey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.18-17.7.x i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: seamoby Subject: [Seamoby] Context Transfer Extension to Cellular-IP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-108.7 required=5.5 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,HTML_10_20,USER_IN_WHITELIST version=2.50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Scanner: exiscan *190KCo-0006BP-00*6ojYCCr2eK2* (SECM, UniS) Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, We have recently submitted a draft proposing to enhance cellular-IP with a Context Transfer mechanism. Could you please provide us with your comments and feedback on the ideas proposed. Title : Context Transfer Extension to Cellular-IP Filename : draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt Abstract: This Internet draft enhances cellular-IP mobility protocol with a Context Transfer mechanism aiming to further optimise the handoff operation in mobile networks. Within a cellular-IP domain, during the handoff from one cellular-IP base station to another, cellular-IP packets could be used to initiate and transfer authorised context from the previous cellular-IP base station via the cellular-IP gateway to the new cellular-IP base station. This draft presents how the context transfer extension introduced could facilitate in reducing latency and packet loss by avoiding the signalling required between the mobile node and the new base station in re-establishing the desired state information. The URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt Kind regards, Mike -- Michael Georgiades Research Fellow Centre for Communication Systems Research University of Surrey Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7XH Tel: +44 (0) 1483 683605 Fax: +44 (0) 1483 686011 www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/ccsr --------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hi all,
We have recently submitted a draft proposing to enhance cellular-IP
with a Context Transfer mechanism.  Could you please provide us with 
your comments and feedback on the ideas proposed.

        Title           : Context Transfer Extension to Cellular-IP
        Filename        : draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt

Abstract:

This Internet draft enhances cellular-IP mobility protocol with a
Context Transfer mechanism aiming to further optimise the handoff 
operation in mobile networks. Within a cellular-IP domain, during the
handoff from one cellular-IP base station to another, cellular-IP
packets could be  used to initiate and transfer authorised context
from the previous cellular-IP base station via the cellular-IP
gateway to the new cellular-IP base station. This draft presents how 
the context transfer extension introduced could facilitate in
reducing latency and packet loss by avoiding the signalling required 
between the mobile node and the new base station  in  re-establishing
the desired state information.

The URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-georgiades-seamoby-ctecip-00.txt


Kind regards,

Mike
-- 
Michael Georgiades
Research Fellow
Centre for Communication Systems Research
University of Surrey
Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7XH

Tel: +44 (0) 1483 683605
Fax: +44 (0) 1483 686011
www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/ccsr
  --------------F0681A201DF875898CCBA41E-- _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailman-admin@ietf.org Tue Apr 1 11:12:53 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25250 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:12:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31GafK24529 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:36:41 -0500 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 11:36:41 -0500 Message-ID: <20030401163641.29326.37959.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: seamoby-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: mailman-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mailman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, seamoby-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. *************************************************************************** Note Well All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to the IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026, which grants to the IETF and its participants certain licenses and rights in such statements. Such statements include verbal statements in IETF meetings, as well as written and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are addressed to * the IETF plenary session, * any IETF working group or portion thereof, * the IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG, * the IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB, * any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices, * the RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF activity, group or function, are not subject to these provisions. *************************************************************************** If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org. Thanks! Passwords for seamoby-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- seamoby@ietf.org Zzch https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/seamoby/seamoby-archive%40lists.ietf.org From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 1 13:25:53 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06659 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h31IniV03791 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:49:44 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31IniK03788 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:49:44 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06535 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:25:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31InSK03463; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:49:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h319rsK13547 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:53:54 -0500 Received: from gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02070 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:29:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg (mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg [137.132.31.243]) by gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (8.12.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h319WdGi029921 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:32:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from galadriel ([172.16.2.150]) by mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:24:35 +0800 Message-ID: <001001c2f831$2c310050$960210ac@galadriel> From: "Raymond J. Jayabal" To: References: <20030322.020459.68535176.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030324.200720.26220860.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3E83C220.4060101@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:29:19 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] New Draft - CT & FMIPv6 Interactions in an L2-ST Anticipative Handover Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Just submitted a draft on CT & FMIPv6 in a special handover case. Hope you can read & provide some comments on how plausible it is: Link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rjaya-ct-fmip6-l2st-ant-ho-00. txt Abstract: This draft was submitted to obtain comments for an experimental work in progress. It presents Fast Mobile IPv6 and Context Transfer interactions for a specific case of contextful, anticipative, network controlled and Layer-2 source-triggered IPv6 handover where one or more candidate access routers can be identified for selection as target. It is also meant to illustrate a case where it might be useful to: a) have Context Transfer messages as but options in handover negotiation messages (e.g., Fast MIPv6's HI/HACK messages) between Access Routers. b) have an additional flag in the Context Transfer Protocol Context Transfer Data message which indicates whether the new Access Router should install any context at all given that any one context fails to be installed. c) not make the Fast MIPv6 FBU/FBACK message exchanges mandatory where Layer-2 triggers are adequate, and lax the message sequence requirements of PrRtAdv and HI/HACK by the old Access Router in such a situation. Best wishes, Ray ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Raymond J. Jayabal | ICR, A-STAR jraymond@icr.a-star.edu.sg | 20 Science Park Rd #02-34/37 Tel: +65 6870 9330 | Singapore 117674 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From seamoby-admin@ietf.org Tue Apr 1 13:26:32 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06699 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:26:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31InSK03463; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:49:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h319rsK13547 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:53:54 -0500 Received: from gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02070 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:29:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg (mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg [137.132.31.243]) by gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (8.12.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h319WdGi029921 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:32:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from galadriel ([172.16.2.150]) by mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:24:35 +0800 Message-ID: <001001c2f831$2c310050$960210ac@galadriel> From: "Raymond J. Jayabal" To: References: <20030322.020459.68535176.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030324.200720.26220860.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <3E83C220.4060101@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:29:19 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] New Draft - CT & FMIPv6 Interactions in an L2-ST Anticipative Handover Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Just submitted a draft on CT & FMIPv6 in a special handover case. Hope you can read & provide some comments on how plausible it is: Link: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rjaya-ct-fmip6-l2st-ant-ho-00. txt Abstract: This draft was submitted to obtain comments for an experimental work in progress. It presents Fast Mobile IPv6 and Context Transfer interactions for a specific case of contextful, anticipative, network controlled and Layer-2 source-triggered IPv6 handover where one or more candidate access routers can be identified for selection as target. It is also meant to illustrate a case where it might be useful to: a) have Context Transfer messages as but options in handover negotiation messages (e.g., Fast MIPv6's HI/HACK messages) between Access Routers. b) have an additional flag in the Context Transfer Protocol Context Transfer Data message which indicates whether the new Access Router should install any context at all given that any one context fails to be installed. c) not make the Fast MIPv6 FBU/FBACK message exchanges mandatory where Layer-2 triggers are adequate, and lax the message sequence requirements of PrRtAdv and HI/HACK by the old Access Router in such a situation. Best wishes, Ray ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Raymond J. Jayabal | ICR, A-STAR jraymond@icr.a-star.edu.sg | 20 Science Park Rd #02-34/37 Tel: +65 6870 9330 | Singapore 117674 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 2 14:42:40 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA24795 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:42:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h32K73509548 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:07:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h32K73K09545 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:07:03 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA24783 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:42:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h32K6nK09463; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:06:49 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h32K0TK09126 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:00:29 -0500 Received: from bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA24576 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [172.16.8.102] ([172.16.8.102]) by bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:38:02 -0800 From: Pat Calhoun To: seamoby@ietf.org Cc: skelly@airespace.com, rsuri@airespace.com, bob@airespace.com, gwz@cisco.com, funato@docomolabs-usa.com Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1049312220.18050.323.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 02 Apr 2003 11:37:00 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2003 19:38:02.0379 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FBD9DB0:01C2F94F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] LWAPP Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, Some of us have been working on an AP-AR protocol, which we've called Light Weight Access Point Protocol. The protocol defines a mechanism whereby a "remote radio" with limited intelligence (AP) can provide service through an access router (AR). It became clear at our last meeting that simply ignoring the AP-AR interface would not lead to interoperability, so I thought it would be appropriate to submit this document for comments on this list. I have sent the draft to the secretariat, but an early version is available at: http://www.airespace.com/ftp/draft-calhoun-seamoby-lwapp-00.txt I do, however, wish to apologize in advance for the formatting. We started with the word template, and found that there is no way to convert back to text... I should have known better. I will follow up with another version that will address the formatting issue, in addition to any comments received on the list. Comments are, of course, welcomed. Thanks, PatC _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 2 20:37:50 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA20573 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h331dqG10712 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:39:52 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h331dqK10709 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:39:52 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA20555 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:37:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h331dUK10688; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:39:30 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h331ccK10618 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:38:38 -0500 Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA20500 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:35:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 17:38:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Alper Yegin To: Pat Calhoun , CC: , , , , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1049312220.18050.323.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I understand, this protocol should be used for configuring an AP, and getting stats from it. Isn't SNMP sufficient for that? Here is another proposed protocol that is needed because of AP-AR separation: draft-yegin-l2-triggers-00.txt alper On 4/2/03 11:37 AM, "Pat Calhoun" wrote: > All, > > Some of us have been working on an AP-AR protocol, which we've called > Light Weight Access Point Protocol. The protocol defines a mechanism > whereby a "remote radio" with limited intelligence (AP) can provide > service through an access router (AR). It became clear at our last > meeting that simply ignoring the AP-AR interface would not lead to > interoperability, so I thought it would be appropriate to submit this > document for comments on this list. > > I have sent the draft to the secretariat, but an early version is > available at: > http://www.airespace.com/ftp/draft-calhoun-seamoby-lwapp-00.txt > > I do, however, wish to apologize in advance for the formatting. We > started with the word template, and found that there is no way to > convert back to text... I should have known better. I will follow up > with another version that will address the formatting issue, in addition > to any comments received on the list. > > Comments are, of course, welcomed. > > Thanks, > > PatC > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 2 21:09:40 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA21190 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:09:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h332BhR12931 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:11:43 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h332BhK12928 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:11:43 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA21178 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:09:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h332BXK12919; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:11:33 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h332ArK12882 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:10:53 -0500 Received: from bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA21167 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:08:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [172.16.8.102] ([172.16.8.102]) by bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:10:47 -0800 Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Pat Calhoun To: Alper Yegin Cc: seamoby@ietf.org, skelly@airespace.com, rsuri@airespace.com, bob@airespace.com, Glen Zorn , funato@docomolabs-usa.com In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1049335784.18050.454.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 02 Apr 2003 18:09:44 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2003 02:10:47.0980 (UTC) FILETIME=[3DEEF6C0:01C2F986] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, it's does alot more than just configure APs. The information provided in the protocol can provide many additional features, include fast handoffs, creating a secure interface between the AP and the AR, etc. Further, the market has made it pretty clear that they no longer want smart APs that have to be managed individually. They want a central point of control, with remote interfaces. But this is a market issue, not a standards one. PatC On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 17:38, Alper Yegin wrote: > > As I understand, this protocol should be used for configuring an AP, and > getting stats from it. Isn't SNMP sufficient for that? > > Here is another proposed protocol that is needed because of AP-AR > separation: > > draft-yegin-l2-triggers-00.txt > > alper > > > > > > On 4/2/03 11:37 AM, "Pat Calhoun" wrote: > > > All, > > > > Some of us have been working on an AP-AR protocol, which we've called > > Light Weight Access Point Protocol. The protocol defines a mechanism > > whereby a "remote radio" with limited intelligence (AP) can provide > > service through an access router (AR). It became clear at our last > > meeting that simply ignoring the AP-AR interface would not lead to > > interoperability, so I thought it would be appropriate to submit this > > document for comments on this list. > > > > I have sent the draft to the secretariat, but an early version is > > available at: > > http://www.airespace.com/ftp/draft-calhoun-seamoby-lwapp-00.txt > > > > I do, however, wish to apologize in advance for the formatting. We > > started with the word template, and found that there is no way to > > convert back to text... I should have known better. I will follow up > > with another version that will address the formatting issue, in addition > > to any comments received on the list. > > > > Comments are, of course, welcomed. > > > > Thanks, > > > > PatC > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seamoby mailing list > > Seamoby@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > > > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 2 22:29:51 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA23001 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:29:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h333Vtj18639 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:31:55 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h333VtK18636 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:31:55 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA22991 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:29:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h333VSK18623; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:31:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h333UvK18540 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:30:57 -0500 Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA22947 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:28:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:31:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Alper Yegin To: Pat Calhoun CC: , , , , Glen Zorn , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1049335784.18050.454.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No, it's does alot more than just configure APs. The information > provided in the protocol can provide many additional features, include > fast handoffs, creating a secure interface between the AP and the AR, > etc. I don't see any fast handoffs information carried in the draft. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "secure interface", but based on my reading of the draft the only security is for protecting this protocol's packets between the AP and the AR. And this is not an additional feature but a requirement on the protocol. > > Further, the market has made it pretty clear that they no longer want > smart APs that have to be managed individually. They want a central > point of control, with remote interfaces. But this is a market issue, > not a standards one. This makes sense. But is there any difference between your proposed protocol and SNMP in this context? alper > > PatC > On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 17:38, Alper Yegin wrote: >> >> As I understand, this protocol should be used for configuring an AP, and >> getting stats from it. Isn't SNMP sufficient for that? >> >> Here is another proposed protocol that is needed because of AP-AR >> separation: >> >> draft-yegin-l2-triggers-00.txt >> >> alper >> >> >> >> >> >> On 4/2/03 11:37 AM, "Pat Calhoun" wrote: >> >>> All, >>> >>> Some of us have been working on an AP-AR protocol, which we've called >>> Light Weight Access Point Protocol. The protocol defines a mechanism >>> whereby a "remote radio" with limited intelligence (AP) can provide >>> service through an access router (AR). It became clear at our last >>> meeting that simply ignoring the AP-AR interface would not lead to >>> interoperability, so I thought it would be appropriate to submit this >>> document for comments on this list. >>> >>> I have sent the draft to the secretariat, but an early version is >>> available at: >>> http://www.airespace.com/ftp/draft-calhoun-seamoby-lwapp-00.txt >>> >>> I do, however, wish to apologize in advance for the formatting. We >>> started with the word template, and found that there is no way to >>> convert back to text... I should have known better. I will follow up >>> with another version that will address the formatting issue, in addition >>> to any comments received on the list. >>> >>> Comments are, of course, welcomed. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> PatC >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Seamoby mailing list >>> Seamoby@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 2 23:07:31 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23632 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:07:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3349au21960 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:09:36 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3349aK21957 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:09:36 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23604 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:07:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3349HK21932; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:09:17 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3348bK21911 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:08:37 -0500 Received: from madang.ajou.ac.kr (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23590 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:05:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from purple ([202.30.20.232]) by madang.ajou.ac.kr (8.12.8-H/8.12.6) with SMTP id h3347sqr003792 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:07:54 +0900 (KST) From: "Byung-Jin Lee" To: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:08:51 +0900 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_016A_01C2F9E2.2BB36F20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [Seamoby] Post to this list Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01C2F9E2.2BB36F20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_016B_01C2F9E2.2BB36F20" ------=_NextPart_001_016B_01C2F9E2.2BB36F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 vNK/67W5wMx3aXJlbGVzc0Bham91LmFjLmtyIA0KDQo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KQnl1bmctSmluIExlZQ0KDQpUZWxlY29tLiBSZXNlYXJjaCBM 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[132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA22425 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34EESK18801; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:14:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34BbbK04521 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:37:37 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14622; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:34:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200304041134.GAA14622@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: seamoby@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 06:34:22 -0500 Subject: [Seamoby] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting Working Group of the IETF. Title : Mobility Related Terminology Author(s) : J. Manner, M. Kojo Filename : draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2003-4-3 There is a need for common definitions of terminology in the work to be done around IP mobility. This memo defines terms for mobility related terminology. It is intended as a living document for use by the Seamoby Working Group in Seamoby drafts and in WG discussions, but not limited in scope to the terms needed by the Seamoby Working Group. Other working groups dealing with mobility may take advantage of this terminology. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-4-4064909.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-4-4064909.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Sat Apr 5 11:15:30 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09949 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:15:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h35GImU05710 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:18:48 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h35GIm805707 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:18:48 -0500 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09943 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:14:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h35GFM805623; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:15:22 -0500 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h359pH816913 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 04:51:17 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA03565 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 04:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mannersaari.cs.Helsinki.FI (mannersaari.cs.helsinki.fi [::ffff:128.214.11.173]) (IDENT: jmanner, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:50:04 +0300 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:50:03 +0300 (EEST) From: Jukka MJ Manner To: Randy Presuhn , Seamoby Working Group cc: Markku Kojo , Charles Perkins , tapio.suihko@vtt.fi, Tapio Suihko , Philip Eardley , Dave Wisely , "Hancock, Robert" , Nikos Georganopoulos In-Reply-To: <001a01c2fb23$612d96c0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Randy, thank you for this very thorough review - it was awful to read how many mistakes the draft has...:) All points noted and will be dealt with in the future version. Thank you. Charlie, can you comment on the Section 2 issues and definitions? Regards, Jukka On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > A couple of nits jumped out at me from > draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt, > please ignore if you think I'm hallucinating. > > Section 1, first paragraph: > "could like take" -> "could take" > > Section 1, second paragraph: > "terminology, for" -> "terminology. For" > > Section 2, "Bandwidth" should be expressed as information carrying > capacity PER UNIT TIME. Without the time dimension, it's not > bandwidth. > > Section 2, "Bandwidth Utilization" neglects link overhead. The current > definition sounds closer to "goodput". > > Section 2, "Channel Access Protocol" the second sentence seems to conflict > with the previous definition. The phrase "uncontested access to the > medium" doesn't seem to be quite right for FDMA or CDMA, for example. > Same comment applies to the MAC definition. Perhaps the distinction > between "channel" and "medium" should be more rigorously observed. > > Section 2, "Fairness" sounds like it means to say something like "fairly > available" instead of "fairly equal" > > Secton 2, "Mobility Factor": so the units would be moves per initiation? > (rather than something like pdu, exchange, or transaction) What does > this mean for connectionless protocols like SNMP? > > Section 2, "Neighbor": "forwarding node" -> "forwarding node." > > Section 2, "Payload": "Note," -> "Note" > > Section 3, first paragraph: "a set of nodes form" -> "a set of nodes forms" > > Section 3, first paragraph: "The Figure 1" -> "Figure 1" > > Section 3, second paragraph: "i.e." -> "e.g." > > Section 3, second paragraph: "ANR" is introduced without expansion > > Section 4.1: the distinction between "horizontal handover" and > "layer 2 handover" isn't clear. An example illustrating the > difference might be useful. > > Section 4.2: The intent here is to characterize all handovers > in five dimensions (a-e)? The use of "may be" in (c) where > the others use "is" seems odd. > > Section 4.2 (c): so "mutual assistance" isn't possible? :-) > > Section 4.4, "Goodput": this is an unusual way of defining it. > This definition would count bandwidth used by packets dropped > due to CRC errors as "goodput". Is that really the intent? > > Section 4.5: "UTRAN FDD" used without expansion. > > Section 4.5: "the splitting" -> "The splitting" > > Section 4.6: (bottom of page 18) Where's the rest of the sentence > beginning "The term" ? :-) > > Section 4.6, "Active State": "when" -> "When" > > Section 4.6, "Time-slotted Dormant Mode": is the extra indentation > deliberate? The following text refers to three states, which would > suggest that it is, but the layout looks odd nonetheless. I'd suggest > moving it into the "additional defintions" that immediately follow. > > Section 4.5, "Paging" and "Location updating": "a procedure" -> "A procedure" > > Section 4.8: "to which MN is currently attached to" -> > "to which MN is currently attached" > > Section 4.9: "means, the", "means the" > > Section 4.9, last paragraph: "LMM messages itself are not" -> > "LMM messages are not" > > Section 4.9, last paragraph: "although," -> "although" > > There's no IPR section... No trademarks, etc. in this area? > > Section 10: if this is planned for eventual RFC publication, > this should be split into normative and informative references > > Section 10: the format for entries should follow that used in > (Note the order of > names and initials in lists follows common bibliographic > practice, strange though it may be.) > > Section 11: there's a superfluous ")" in one of the email addresses. > > Section 12.a.1: "GSM", "EMA", "WLAN", "PLMN". "UMTS" aren't expanded > > Section 12.a.2: "TDMA", "W-CDMA", "CDMA" aren't expanded > > Section 12.a.3: "RNC" that isn't Republican National Committee, is it? > > Section 12.a.4: GPRS? GGSN? > > Section 12.a.4: "components (see Figure 1." -> "components. (See Figure 1.)" > > > Randy > > > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 7 08:03:44 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17910 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h37C7tY05417 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:07:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h37C7t805414 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:07:55 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17904 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h37C4S804480; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:04:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h37C33804447 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:03:03 -0400 Received: from tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA17798 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from venus.office (venus.office [10.1.1.11]) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h37C0nVI098104; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:00:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.1.1.130] (brunner.office [10.1.1.130]) by venus.office (Postfix on SuSE Linux eMail Server 3.0) with ESMTP id 0AF4A99C24; Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:58:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:00:50 +0200 From: Marcus Brunner Reply-To: Marcus Brunner To: Alper Yegin , Pat Calhoun , seamoby@ietf.org Cc: skelly@airespace.com, rsuri@airespace.com, bob@airespace.com, gwz@cisco.com, funato@docomolabs-usa.com Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP Message-ID: <16708205.1049724050@[10.1.1.130]> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.0.2 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Alper. It seams that SNMP is just fine for that. It was designed for small devices, meanwhile it is even secure, was meant for a manager )AR in your case) having a number of agents (AP). Marcus --On Mittwoch, 2. April 2003 17:38 -0800 Alper Yegin wrote: > > > > As I understand, this protocol should be used for configuring an AP, and > getting stats from it. Isn't SNMP sufficient for that? > > Here is another proposed protocol that is needed because of AP-AR > separation: > > draft-yegin-l2-triggers-00.txt > > alper > > > > > > On 4/2/03 11:37 AM, "Pat Calhoun" wrote: > >> All, >> >> Some of us have been working on an AP-AR protocol, which we've called >> Light Weight Access Point Protocol. The protocol defines a mechanism >> whereby a "remote radio" with limited intelligence (AP) can provide >> service through an access router (AR). It became clear at our last >> meeting that simply ignoring the AP-AR interface would not lead to >> interoperability, so I thought it would be appropriate to submit this >> document for comments on this list. >> >> I have sent the draft to the secretariat, but an early version is >> available at: >> http://www.airespace.com/ftp/draft-calhoun-seamoby-lwapp-00.txt >> >> I do, however, wish to apologize in advance for the formatting. We >> started with the word template, and found that there is no way to >> convert back to text... I should have known better. I will follow up >> with another version that will address the formatting issue, in addition >> to any comments received on the list. >> >> Comments are, of course, welcomed. >> >> Thanks, >> >> PatC >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Seamoby mailing list >> Seamoby@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby >> > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby -------------------------------------- Dr. Marcus Brunner Network Laboratories NEC Europe Ltd. E-Mail: brunner@ccrle.nec.de WWW: http://www.ccrle.nec.de/ Phone: +49 (0) 6221 905 11 29 personal home page: http://www.brubers.org/marcus _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 8 08:35:37 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08306 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h38CdU721218 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:39:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38CdU821215 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:39:30 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08292 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38Cd8821197; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:39:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38Cbm821142 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:37:48 -0400 Received: from bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08268 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:32:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.8.102] ([172.16.8.102]) by bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:35:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Pat Calhoun To: Alper Yegin Cc: seamoby@ietf.org, skelly@airespace.com, rsuri@airespace.com, bob@airespace.com, Glen Zorn , funato@docomolabs-usa.com In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1049805209.3243.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 08 Apr 2003 05:33:29 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2003 12:35:07.0824 (UTC) FILETIME=[49CE4B00:01C2FDCB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies for the latency... just catching up to e-mail now. On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 19:31, Alper Yegin wrote: > > No, it's does alot more than just configure APs. The information > > provided in the protocol can provide many additional features, include > > fast handoffs, creating a secure interface between the AP and the AR, > > etc. > > I don't see any fast handoffs information carried in the draft. > A foobar on my part. There is a message between the AP and the AR that is used to communicate a trigger. Used with the signal strength in the message (which is already in the draft), it can be used by the AR to determine a mobile's current point of attachment. I put out the document rather hastily, but will follow up with another version that includes this (and the formatting problems). > I'm not sure > what exactly you mean by "secure interface", but based on my reading of the > draft the only security is for protecting this protocol's packets between > the AP and the AR. And this is not an additional feature but a requirement > on the protocol. Correct - that is the secure interface I mentioned. It is assumed that the user will protect his/her own traffic... and that the AR will enforce whatever policy it has defined. LWAPP was not intended to replace end-to-end security, but securing that interface *is* a requirement, not an additional feature. A malicious AP can do very nasty things to an AR. > > > > Further, the market has made it pretty clear that they no longer want > > smart APs that have to be managed individually. They want a central > > point of control, with remote interfaces. But this is a market issue, > > not a standards one. > > This makes sense. But is there any difference between your proposed protocol > and SNMP in this context? Sure, let me explain. What we've heard from our customers is that they are tired to managing APs scattered throughout their networks (oh, and it's clear the industry is moving in this direction, these are not just my own ramblings). The issue SNMP in the AP is that it does require the administrator to touch the device. People want a secure plug and play solution. If SNMP is on the box, you must configure the community string (and user in the case of v3), and this security relationship is one that must be administered over the course of the device's lifetime. The market is pretty clear in the fact that it wants an AP that can auto-discover ARs and establish a security relationship w/o any administrator involvement. The draft's use of certificates provides this feature, but I agree that a shared secret mechanism should probably be defined as well. PatC _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 8 10:46:01 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15672 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h38Eoks32125 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:50:46 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38Eok832122 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:50:46 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15657 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38EoM832092; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:50:22 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38En3832024 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:49:03 -0400 Received: from mgw-dax2.ext.nokia.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15506 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:43:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Hemant.Chaskar@nokia.com Received: from davir02nok.americas.nokia.com (davir02nok.americas.nokia.com [172.18.242.85]) by mgw-dax2.ext.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h38EkIH14855 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:46:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by davir02nok.americas.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:46:17 -0500 Received: from bsebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.19.160.13]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:45:46 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:45:45 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Seamoby] LWAPP Thread-Index: AcL90gWD1rD6oJfHQFm5F6TSTFz+RgAC0xlA To: , Cc: , , , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2003 14:45:46.0546 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A0C5920:01C2FDDD] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h38En3832025 Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Pat: A related question on implication of LWAPP draft. With this document in place, can the WG assume in other protocol designs (e.g. CARD) that AR to AP associations and security issues are to be addressed by a dedicated protocol such as LWAPP. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: ext Pat Calhoun [mailto:pcalhoun@bstormnetworks.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:33 AM To: Alper Yegin Cc: seamoby@ietf.org; skelly@airespace.com; rsuri@airespace.com; bob@airespace.com; Glen Zorn; funato@docomolabs-usa.com Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP My apologies for the latency... just catching up to e-mail now. On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 19:31, Alper Yegin wrote: > > No, it's does alot more than just configure APs. The information > > provided in the protocol can provide many additional features, include > > fast handoffs, creating a secure interface between the AP and the AR, > > etc. > > I don't see any fast handoffs information carried in the draft. > A foobar on my part. There is a message between the AP and the AR that is used to communicate a trigger. Used with the signal strength in the message (which is already in the draft), it can be used by the AR to determine a mobile's current point of attachment. I put out the document rather hastily, but will follow up with another version that includes this (and the formatting problems). > I'm not sure > what exactly you mean by "secure interface", but based on my reading of the > draft the only security is for protecting this protocol's packets between > the AP and the AR. And this is not an additional feature but a requirement > on the protocol. Correct - that is the secure interface I mentioned. It is assumed that the user will protect his/her own traffic... and that the AR will enforce whatever policy it has defined. LWAPP was not intended to replace end-to-end security, but securing that interface *is* a requirement, not an additional feature. A malicious AP can do very nasty things to an AR. > > > > Further, the market has made it pretty clear that they no longer want > > smart APs that have to be managed individually. They want a central > > point of control, with remote interfaces. But this is a market issue, > > not a standards one. > > This makes sense. But is there any difference between your proposed protocol > and SNMP in this context? Sure, let me explain. What we've heard from our customers is that they are tired to managing APs scattered throughout their networks (oh, and it's clear the industry is moving in this direction, these are not just my own ramblings). The issue SNMP in the AP is that it does require the administrator to touch the device. People want a secure plug and play solution. If SNMP is on the box, you must configure the community string (and user in the case of v3), and this security relationship is one that must be administered over the course of the device's lifetime. The market is pretty clear in the fact that it wants an AP that can auto-discover ARs and establish a security relationship w/o any administrator involvement. The draft's use of certificates provides this feature, but I agree that a shared secret mechanism should probably be defined as well. PatC _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 8 10:49:32 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15867 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h38EsGa32291 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:54:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38EsG832288 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:54:16 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15843 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38Es5832276; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:54:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38Era832250 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:53:36 -0400 Received: from bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15827 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.8.102] ([172.16.8.102]) by bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:50:52 -0700 Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Pat Calhoun To: Hemant.Chaskar@nokia.com Cc: alper@docomolabs-usa.com, seamoby@ietf.org, skelly@airespace.com, rsuri@airespace.com, bob@airespace.com, Glen Zorn , funato@docomolabs-usa.com In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1049813353.6222.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 08 Apr 2003 07:49:14 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2003 14:50:52.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=[40AF42F0:01C2FDDE] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A related question on implication of LWAPP draft. With this document in place, can the WG assume in other protocol designs (e.g. CARD) that AR to AP associations and security issues are to be addressed by a dedicated protocol such as LWAPP. No. The draft is an individual contribution. There is nothing in the charter to cover such work. First we need to focus on our existing milestones, but if the WG makes progress and determines that something such as LWAPP makes sense, then we can discuss it at that time. It could also be that LWAPP really belongs in another area/WG. The goal of the document is to start discussions in this space. I believe one of the issues in the market is that there are many WLAN switches that will become available, and it would be in the market's best interest to standardize that interface. PatC _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 8 11:26:56 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18642 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h38FVgP02944 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:31:42 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38FVg802941 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:31:42 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18632 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38FVU802915; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:31:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38FUp802872 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:30:52 -0400 Received: from bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18598 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.8.102] ([172.16.8.102]) by bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:27:44 -0700 Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Pat Calhoun To: Hemant.Chaskar@nokia.com Cc: alper@docomolabs-usa.com, seamoby@ietf.org, skelly@airespace.com, rsuri@airespace.com, bob@airespace.com, Glen Zorn , funato@docomolabs-usa.com In-Reply-To: <1049813353.6222.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1049813353.6222.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1049815565.6223.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 08 Apr 2003 08:26:05 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2003 15:27:44.0483 (UTC) FILETIME=[66DB0B30:01C2FDE3] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If the designs of current protocols would be simpler with such an approach, then you could always make an argument for it... but I agree with the chair in his comments below :) On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 07:49, Pat Calhoun wrote: > > A related question on implication of LWAPP draft. With this document in place, can the WG assume in other protocol designs (e.g. CARD) that AR to AP associations and security issues are to be addressed by a dedicated protocol such as LWAPP. > > No. The draft is an individual contribution. There is nothing in the > charter to cover such work. First we need to focus on our existing > milestones, but if the WG makes progress and determines that something > such as LWAPP makes sense, then we can discuss it at that time. It could > also be that LWAPP really belongs in another area/WG. > > The goal of the document is to start discussions in this space. I > believe one of the issues in the market is that there are many WLAN > switches that will become available, and it would be in the market's > best interest to standardize that interface. > > PatC > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 8 11:39:35 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19430 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h38FiLm04411 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:44:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38FiL804408 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:44:21 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19409 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38Fi7804396; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:44:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38Fhq804376 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:43:52 -0400 Received: from mgw-dax2.ext.nokia.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19387 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:38:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Hemant.Chaskar@nokia.com Received: from davir04nok.americas.nokia.com (davir04nok.americas.nokia.com [172.18.242.87]) by mgw-dax2.ext.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h38Ff8H25579 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:41:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by davir04nok.americas.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:41:08 -0500 Received: from bsebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.19.160.13]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:40:36 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:40:34 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Seamoby] LWAPP Thread-Index: AcL95E4ji0g4deD3SLW5jG5nlPRxUAAAL04g To: Cc: , , , , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2003 15:40:36.0182 (UTC) FILETIME=[32D2F760:01C2FDE5] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h38Fhq804377 Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Pat: I think such an approach modularizes the problem space in seamless handoff protocols. I am for it. Hemant -----Original Message----- From: ext Pat Calhoun [mailto:pcalhoun@bstormnetworks.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 11:26 AM To: Chaskar Hemant (NRC/Boston) Cc: alper@docomolabs-usa.com; seamoby@ietf.org; skelly@airespace.com; rsuri@airespace.com; bob@airespace.com; Glen Zorn; funato@docomolabs-usa.com Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP If the designs of current protocols would be simpler with such an approach, then you could always make an argument for it... but I agree with the chair in his comments below :) On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 07:49, Pat Calhoun wrote: > > A related question on implication of LWAPP draft. With this document in place, can the WG assume in other protocol designs (e.g. CARD) that AR to AP associations and security issues are to be addressed by a dedicated protocol such as LWAPP. > > No. The draft is an individual contribution. There is nothing in the > charter to cover such work. First we need to focus on our existing > milestones, but if the WG makes progress and determines that something > such as LWAPP makes sense, then we can discuss it at that time. It could > also be that LWAPP really belongs in another area/WG. > > The goal of the document is to start discussions in this space. I > believe one of the issues in the market is that there are many WLAN > switches that will become available, and it would be in the market's > best interest to standardize that interface. > > PatC > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 8 18:58:57 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07456 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h38N3ra07855 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:03:53 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38N3q807852 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:03:52 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07446 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38N3V807835; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:03:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38N1X807711 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:01:33 -0400 Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07381 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 15:58:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Alper Yegin To: Pat Calhoun CC: , , , , Glen Zorn , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1049805209.3243.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> No, it's does alot more than just configure APs. The information >>> provided in the protocol can provide many additional features, include >>> fast handoffs, creating a secure interface between the AP and the AR, >>> etc. >> >> I don't see any fast handoffs information carried in the draft. >> > A foobar on my part. There is a message between the AP and the AR that > is used to communicate a trigger. Used with the signal strength in the > message (which is already in the draft), it can be used by the AR to > determine a mobile's current point of attachment. > > I put out the document rather hastily, but will follow up with another > version that includes this (and the formatting problems). If you are talking about carrying L2 event notifications around, please see: http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yegin-l2-triggers-00.txt How does what you have in mind compare/relate to the above draft? > >> I'm not sure >> what exactly you mean by "secure interface", but based on my reading of the >> draft the only security is for protecting this protocol's packets between >> the AP and the AR. And this is not an additional feature but a requirement >> on the protocol. > > Correct - that is the secure interface I mentioned. It is assumed that > the user will protect his/her own traffic... and that the AR will > enforce whatever policy it has defined. LWAPP was not intended to > replace end-to-end security, but securing that interface *is* a > requirement, not an additional feature. A malicious AP can do very nasty > things to an AR. > >>> >>> Further, the market has made it pretty clear that they no longer want >>> smart APs that have to be managed individually. They want a central >>> point of control, with remote interfaces. But this is a market issue, >>> not a standards one. >> >> This makes sense. But is there any difference between your proposed protocol >> and SNMP in this context? > > Sure, let me explain. > > What we've heard from our customers is that they are tired to managing > APs scattered throughout their networks (oh, and it's clear the industry > is moving in this direction, these are not just my own ramblings). The > issue SNMP in the AP is that it does require the administrator to touch > the device. People want a secure plug and play solution. If SNMP is on > the box, you must configure the community string (and user in the case > of v3), and this security relationship is one that must be administered > over the course of the device's lifetime. The market is pretty clear in > the fact that it wants an AP that can auto-discover ARs and establish a > security relationship w/o any administrator involvement. The draft's use > of certificates provides this feature, but I agree that a shared secret > mechanism should probably be defined as well. If I'm understanding this right, the problem is that SNMP does not know how to use certificates for authentication.... I don't know how hard it is to solve this if it is needed as you described.... alper > > PatC > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 9 20:24:38 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21181 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:24:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3A0U4v09790 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:30:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A0U4809787 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:30:04 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21151 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A0Td809756; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:29:39 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h39Ltt832194 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:55:55 -0400 Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16009 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com ([129.172.13.4]) by slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.2/8.8.5-M2) with ESMTP id OAA10558; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slb-hub-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.9.3p2/8.9.2/MBS-AV-02) with ESMTP id OAA14771; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-01.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-01.nw.nos.boeing.com [192.33.62.231]) by slb-hub-01.boeing.com (8.11.3/8.11.3/MBS-LDAP-01) with ESMTP id h39Lq0902126; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NW-05.nw.nos.boeing.com ([192.42.226.70]) by XCH-NWBH-01.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:51:58 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6334.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:51:57 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Seamoby] LWAPP Thread-Index: AcL+Sh094HgAxvYxRsaAqBT1rk/6swAl7Zzw From: "Paine, Richard H" To: "Alper Yegin" , "Pat Calhoun" Cc: , , , , "Glen Zorn" , , "Tim Olson (tolson)" , , "Charles Wright" , "Chindapol, Aik" , "cisco - Peter Ecclesine (cisco - Peter Ecclesine)" , "Daryl Kaiser" , , , , , , , , , , , , "IEEE/RRM - Bob O'Hara" , , , , , , , "Joe Kwak" , "Kraemer, Bruce (bkraemer)" , "Mike Moreton" , , "Rosdahl.Jon" , "Simon Black" , "Stephen P. Pope" , "IEEE/RRM - Yasuhiko Inoue" , "IEEE/RRM - Andrew Myles" , "IEEE/RRM - Christoph Euscher" , "IEEE/RRM - Fred Haisch" , "IEEE/RRM - Fuji Watanabe" , "IEEE/RRM - Graham Celine" , "IEEE/RRM - Guenter Kleindl" , "IEEE/RRM - Hasse Sinivaara" , "IEEE/RRM - Hidenori Aoki" , "IEEE/RRM - Hon Mo Yung" , "IEEE/RRM - Jari Jokela" , "IEEE/RRM - Leo Manteban" , "IEEE/RRM - Malik Audeh" , "IEEE/RRM - Marty Lefkowitz" , "IEEE/RRM - Masahiro Takagi" , "IEEE/RRM - Mika Kasslin" , "IEEE/RRM - Mike Wilhoyte" , "IEEE/RRM - Narasimhan Verkatish" , "IEEE/RRM - Patrick Worfolk" , "IEEE/RRM - Tom Mahoney" , "IEEE/RRM - Tomoko Adachi" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2003 21:51:58.0746 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EAE27A0:01C2FEE2] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h39Lu4832202 Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Are you all aware that IEEE 802.11k is working to make the measurements in the 802.11 PHYs and MACs available for upper layers? This includes per AP tables and per STA tables. I think your triggers could be determined from the signal strength and other measurements available through 802.11k. Richard H. Paine Success is getting what you want, happiness is liking what you get! Work: 425-865-4921 Pager: 206-797-4580 Cell: 206-854-8199 IPPhone: 425-373-8964 Email: richard.h.paine@boeing.com -----Original Message----- From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper@docomolabs-usa.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 3:59 PM To: Pat Calhoun Cc: seamoby@ietf.org; skelly@airespace.com; rsuri@airespace.com; bob@airespace.com; Glen Zorn; funato@docomolabs-usa.com Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP >>> No, it's does alot more than just configure APs. The information >>> provided in the protocol can provide many additional features, >>> include fast handoffs, creating a secure interface between the AP >>> and the AR, etc. >> >> I don't see any fast handoffs information carried in the draft. >> > A foobar on my part. There is a message between the AP and the AR that > is used to communicate a trigger. Used with the signal strength in the > message (which is already in the draft), it can be used by the AR to > determine a mobile's current point of attachment. > > I put out the document rather hastily, but will follow up with another > version that includes this (and the formatting problems). If you are talking about carrying L2 event notifications around, please see: http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yegin-l2-triggers-00.txt How does what you have in mind compare/relate to the above draft? > >> I'm not sure >> what exactly you mean by "secure interface", but based on my reading >> of the draft the only security is for protecting this protocol's >> packets between the AP and the AR. And this is not an additional >> feature but a requirement on the protocol. > > Correct - that is the secure interface I mentioned. It is assumed that > the user will protect his/her own traffic... and that the AR will > enforce whatever policy it has defined. LWAPP was not intended to > replace end-to-end security, but securing that interface *is* a > requirement, not an additional feature. A malicious AP can do very > nasty things to an AR. > >>> >>> Further, the market has made it pretty clear that they no longer >>> want smart APs that have to be managed individually. They want a >>> central point of control, with remote interfaces. But this is a >>> market issue, not a standards one. >> >> This makes sense. But is there any difference between your proposed >> protocol and SNMP in this context? > > Sure, let me explain. > > What we've heard from our customers is that they are tired to managing > APs scattered throughout their networks (oh, and it's clear the > industry is moving in this direction, these are not just my own > ramblings). The issue SNMP in the AP is that it does require the > administrator to touch the device. People want a secure plug and play > solution. If SNMP is on the box, you must configure the community > string (and user in the case of v3), and this security relationship is > one that must be administered over the course of the device's > lifetime. The market is pretty clear in the fact that it wants an AP > that can auto-discover ARs and establish a security relationship w/o > any administrator involvement. The draft's use of certificates > provides this feature, but I agree that a shared secret mechanism > should probably be defined as well. If I'm understanding this right, the problem is that SNMP does not know how to use certificates for authentication.... I don't know how hard it is to solve this if it is needed as you described.... alper > > PatC > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 9 20:24:42 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21195 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3A0U8i09808 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:30:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A0U8809804 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:30:08 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21154 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A0TU809735; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:29:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h38HDT811941 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:13:29 -0400 Received: from soleil.uvsq.fr (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22445; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guillotin.prism.uvsq.fr (guillotin.prism.uvsq.fr [193.51.25.1]) by soleil.uvsq.fr (8.12.6/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id h38GvbI6062076 ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:57:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from BRUNE (brune.prism.uvsq.fr [193.51.25.132]) by guillotin.prism.uvsq.fr (8.11.4/jtpda-5.3.2) with SMTP id h38GuX128152 ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:56:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <06d001c2fdf1$e17daa10$841933c1@BRUNE> From: "Ahmed Mehaoua" To: Cc: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , "\"Georg Carle\"" , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:10:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_06CD_01C2FE02.914ABFE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Antivirus: scanned by sophie at soleil.uvsq.fr Subject: [Seamoby] CFP IEEE/IFIP Intern. Conference on Management of Multimedia Networks & Services 2003 Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_06CD_01C2FE02.914ABFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues,=20 Apologize for any duplicates; ------------------------------------------------------------------- Please distribute to interested people to encourage contributions ans = submissions to the 6th IFIP/IEEE International Conference on Management = of Multimedia Networks and Services : 7th - 10th September 2003, Queen's University of Belfast, = Northern Ireland=20 http://www.ee.qub.ac.uk/mmns2003 . ------------------------------------------------------------------- Please note the extension to the deadline for submission of papers to = MMNS2003 is 18th April 2003. Please circulate to your colleagues to = ensure a good turnout. For further information about the conference please see the web site at = http://ee-server.ee.qub.ac.uk/dsp/mmns2003/ Best Regards, Ahmed Mehaoua (Publicity chair) = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------- MMNS 2003 6th IFIP/IEEE International Conference on Management of Multimedia = Networks and Services 7th - 10th September 2003, Queen's University of Belfast, = Northern Ireland=20 http://www.ee.qub.ac.uk/mmns2003=20 Second Call For Papers Multimedia services over IP networks are proliferating at an enormous = speed. There=20 is also increasing demand for solutions which provide assured levels of = service quality.=20 All of these require novel paradigms, models and architectures for = realising integrated=20 end-to-end service management rather than managing network elements in = isolation.=20 Providing scalable Quality of Service (QoS) while maintaining fairness, = along with=20 secure and optimal network resource management are key challenges for = the future=20 Internet. These challenges apply to both fixed and wireless networks.=20 The IFIP/IEEE International Conference on Management of Multimedia = Networks and Services=20 will hold its sixth annual meeting from September 7th to September 10th, = 2003 in Belfast, Northern Ireland. MMNS provides an intimate setting for discussion and = debate. In just 6 years,=20 MMNS has established itself as one of the premier conferences with a = focus on the management=20 of multimedia networks and services. The conference objective is to = bring together researchers=20 working in all facets of network and service management as applied to = broadband networks and=20 multimedia services. MMNS deals with all aspects of designing, = developing and deploying=20 networked multimedia systems and it serves as a forum for the = dissemination of state-of-the-art=20 research and development results.=20 MMNS 2003 will also include panel sessions in which experts=20 offer their observations and opinions about current hot topics. The = keynote speaker will be=20 Professor Ian Akyildiz, Georgia Institute of Technology who will present = a vision of future=20 interplanetary network architectures. Professor Derek McAuley, head of = Intel's recently formed=20 laboratory at Cambridge, UK, will describe some of the new research = being undertaken on global=20 overlay networks and applications. The program committee is soliciting original papers describing research = in the area of=20 management of multimedia networks and services. Topics of interest = include, but are not=20 limited to, the following: * Active multimedia network management=20 * Ad-hoc and Sensor Networks=20 * Augmented and Virtual Reality Networks=20 * Billing and Accounting=20 * Cable multimedia network management=20 * Content distribution internetworking=20 * Deployment of multimedia services=20 * Distributed multimedia service management=20 * End-to-end IP multimedia network and service management=20 * IP Video, streaming, interactive video service management=20 * Middleware support for management=20 * Multimedia network traffic engineering and optimization=20 * Multimedia traffic management=20 * Multimedia content protection=20 * Multimedia session management=20 * Multi-point, multicast services management=20 * Network management models and architectures=20 * Network programmability for multimedia services=20 * Optical multimedia network management=20 * Policy-based management for multi-media services=20 * Provisioning of multimedia networks and services=20 * QoS in WLANs=20 * QoS management=20 * Resource, performance and fault management=20 * Security and Authentication=20 * VoIP service management=20 * Web Services=20 * Wireless and mobile multimedia network management=20 Papers must be submitted electronically in postscript or PDF format. = Detailed=20 instructions are provided on the conference web site, = http://www.ee.qub.ac.uk/mmns2003.=20 Submission date: 18th April 2003 Notification of acceptance: 6th June 2003 Final version: 4th July 2003 Conference Chairs: Professor Alan Marshall, a.marshall@ee.qub.ac.uk, Queen's University = of Belfast, UK Professor Nazim Agoulmine, nazim@rp.lip6.fr, University of Evry, = France Qiang Gu Advanced Telecommunication Systems Laboratory School of Electrical & Electronic Engineering The Queen's University of Belfast Belfast Northern Ireland. BT9 5AH Email: qiang.gu@ee.qub.ac.uk Telephone: +44 -2890-274142 Fax: +44 -2890-274417 --------------------------------------------------------- Ahmed Mehaoua University of Versailles - CNRS PRISM Lab. 45 av. des etats unis 78000 Versailles - France Email : mea@prism.uvsq.fr Tel : +33 1 39 25 40 45 ------=_NextPart_000_06CD_01C2FE02.914ABFE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Colleagues,
Apologize for any=20 duplicates;
 
----------------------------------------------------------------= ---

 Please=20 distribute to interested people to encourage contributions ans = submissions to=20 the 6th IFIP/IEEE International = Conference on=20 Management of Multimedia Networks and Services=20 :
        7th - 10th September = 2003,=20 Queen's University of Belfast, Northern Ireland=20
           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 http://www.ee.qub.ac.uk/mmns200= 3=20 .
----------------------------------------------------------------= ---
Please note the extension to the = deadline for=20 submission of papers to MMNS2003 is 18th=20 April 2003. Please circulate to your colleagues to ensure a good=20 turnout.
 
For further information about the = conference please=20 see the web site at http://ee-server.ee.= qub.ac.uk/dsp/mmns2003/
 
Best Regards,
 
Ahmed Mehaoua
(Publicity chair)
 
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------------------------
 
MMNS 2003
6th = IFIP/IEEE=20 International Conference on Management of Multimedia Networks and=20 Services
        7th - 10th = September=20 2003, Queen's University of Belfast, Northern Ireland=20
           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 http://www.ee.qub.ac.uk/mmns200= 3=20
 

          &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 Second Call For Papers
 
Multimedia services over IP networks are proliferating at an = enormous=20 speed. There
is also increasing demand for solutions which provide = assured=20 levels of service quality.
All of these require novel paradigms, = models and=20 architectures for realising integrated
end-to-end service management = rather=20 than managing network elements in isolation.
Providing scalable = Quality of=20 Service (QoS) while maintaining fairness, along with
secure and = optimal=20 network resource management are key challenges for the future =
Internet.=20 These challenges apply to both fixed and wireless networks.
 
The IFIP/IEEE International Conference on Management of Multimedia = Networks=20 and Services
will hold its sixth annual meeting from September 7th = to=20 September 10th, 2003 in Belfast,
Northern Ireland. MMNS provides an = intimate=20 setting for discussion and debate. In just 6 years,
MMNS has = established=20 itself as one of the premier conferences with a focus on the management =
of=20 multimedia networks and services. The conference objective is to bring = together=20 researchers
working in all facets of network and service management = as=20 applied to broadband networks and
multimedia services. MMNS deals = with all=20 aspects of designing, developing and deploying
networked multimedia = systems=20 and it serves as a forum for the dissemination of state-of-the-art =
research=20 and development results.
 
MMNS 2003 will also include panel sessions in which experts =
offer their=20 observations and opinions about current hot topics. The keynote speaker = will be=20
Professor Ian Akyildiz, Georgia Institute of Technology who will = present a=20 vision of future
interplanetary network architectures. Professor = Derek=20 McAuley, head of Intel's recently formed
laboratory at Cambridge, = UK, will=20 describe some of the new research being undertaken on global
overlay = networks and applications.
 

The program committee is soliciting original papers describing = research=20 in the area of
management of multimedia networks and services. = Topics of=20 interest include, but are not
limited to, the following:
 
        * Active multimedia = network=20 management
        * Ad-hoc and = Sensor=20 Networks
        * Augmented and = Virtual=20 Reality Networks
        * = Billing and=20 Accounting
        * Cable = multimedia=20 network management
        * = Content=20 distribution internetworking =
        *=20 Deployment of multimedia services =
       =20 * Distributed multimedia service management=20
        * End-to-end IP = multimedia=20 network and service management =
        *=20 IP Video, streaming, interactive video service management=20
        * Middleware support for=20 management
        * Multimedia = network=20 traffic engineering and optimization=20
        * Multimedia traffic = management=20
        * Multimedia content = protection=20
        * Multimedia session = management=20
        * Multi-point, multicast = services=20 management
        * Network = management=20 models and architectures
        = *=20 Network programmability for multimedia services=20
        * Optical multimedia = network=20 management
        * Policy-based = management for multi-media services=20
        * Provisioning of = multimedia=20 networks and services
        * = QoS in=20 WLANs
        * QoS management=20
        * Resource, performance = and fault=20 management
        * Security and = Authentication
        * VoIP = service=20 management
        * Web Services =
        * Wireless and mobile = multimedia=20 network management
 

Papers must be submitted electronically in postscript or PDF = format.=20 Detailed
instructions are provided on the conference web site, http://www.ee.qub.ac.uk/mmns200= 3.=20
 
Submission=20 date:            = 18th=20 April 2003
Notification of acceptance: 6th June 2003
Final=20 version:           = ;  =20 4th July 2003
 
Conference Chairs:
   Professor Alan Marshall, a.marshall@ee.qub.ac.uk, = Queen=92s=20 University of Belfast, UK
   Professor Nazim Agoulmine, nazim@rp.lip6.fr, University of = Evry,=20 France
 
Qiang Gu
Advanced Telecommunication = Systems=20 Laboratory
School of Electrical & Electronic Engineering
The = Queen's=20 University of Belfast
Belfast
Northern Ireland.
BT9 = 5AH
Email: qiang.gu@ee.qub.ac.uk
Teleph= one: +44=20 -2890-274142
Fax: +44 -2890-274417
---------------------------------------------------------
Ahm= ed=20 Mehaoua
University of Versailles - CNRS PRISM Lab.
45 av. des = etats unis=20 78000 Versailles - France
Email : mea@prism.uvsq.fr
Tel : +33 1 = 39 25 40=20 45
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_06CD_01C2FE02.914ABFE0-- _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 9 22:17:25 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA23551 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3A2MrQ17892 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:22:53 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A2Mq817889 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:22:52 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA23524 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A2MU817857; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:22:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A2LN817789 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:21:23 -0400 Received: from gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA23501 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg (mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg [137.132.31.243]) by gandalf.icr.a-star.edu.sg (8.12.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h3A2IUGi024253 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:18:30 +0800 (SGT) Received: from galadriel ([172.16.3.87]) by mailer.icr.a-star.edu.sg; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:10:10 +0800 Message-ID: <000801c2ff06$fffad330$570310ac@galadriel> From: "Raymond J. Jayabal" To: "Paine, Richard H" Cc: References: Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:15:04 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Pardon me for borrowing a bit of your time. I'm a researcher working on signal strength based anticipative L3 handover over over 802.11. Will 802.11k allow the mobile node to report signal strength measurements for the serving and neighbouring access points to the serving AP, and also allow L3 to somehow get these reports? - Ray ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Raymond J. Jayabal | I2R, A-STAR jraymond@icr.a-star.edu.sg | 20 Science Park Rd #02-34/37 Tel: +65 6870 9330 | Singapore 117674 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP > Are you all aware that IEEE 802.11k is working to make the measurements in the 802.11 PHYs and MACs available for upper layers? This includes per AP tables and per STA tables. I think your triggers could be determined from the signal strength and other measurements available through 802.11k. > > Richard H. Paine > Success is getting what you want, happiness is liking what you get! > Work: 425-865-4921 > Pager: 206-797-4580 > Cell: 206-854-8199 > IPPhone: 425-373-8964 > Email: richard.h.paine@boeing.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alper Yegin [mailto:alper@docomolabs-usa.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 3:59 PM > To: Pat Calhoun > Cc: seamoby@ietf.org; skelly@airespace.com; rsuri@airespace.com; bob@airespace.com; Glen Zorn; funato@docomolabs-usa.com > Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP > > > >>> No, it's does alot more than just configure APs. The information > >>> provided in the protocol can provide many additional features, > >>> include fast handoffs, creating a secure interface between the AP > >>> and the AR, etc. > >> > >> I don't see any fast handoffs information carried in the draft. > >> > > A foobar on my part. There is a message between the AP and the AR that > > is used to communicate a trigger. Used with the signal strength in the > > message (which is already in the draft), it can be used by the AR to > > determine a mobile's current point of attachment. > > > > I put out the document rather hastily, but will follow up with another > > version that includes this (and the formatting problems). > > If you are talking about carrying L2 event notifications around, please see: > > http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yegin-l2-triggers-00.txt > > How does what you have in mind compare/relate to the above draft? > > > > > >> I'm not sure > >> what exactly you mean by "secure interface", but based on my reading > >> of the draft the only security is for protecting this protocol's > >> packets between the AP and the AR. And this is not an additional > >> feature but a requirement on the protocol. > > > > Correct - that is the secure interface I mentioned. It is assumed that > > the user will protect his/her own traffic... and that the AR will > > enforce whatever policy it has defined. LWAPP was not intended to > > replace end-to-end security, but securing that interface *is* a > > requirement, not an additional feature. A malicious AP can do very > > nasty things to an AR. > > > >>> > >>> Further, the market has made it pretty clear that they no longer > >>> want smart APs that have to be managed individually. They want a > >>> central point of control, with remote interfaces. But this is a > >>> market issue, not a standards one. > >> > >> This makes sense. But is there any difference between your proposed > >> protocol and SNMP in this context? > > > > Sure, let me explain. > > > > What we've heard from our customers is that they are tired to managing > > APs scattered throughout their networks (oh, and it's clear the > > industry is moving in this direction, these are not just my own > > ramblings). The issue SNMP in the AP is that it does require the > > administrator to touch the device. People want a secure plug and play > > solution. If SNMP is on the box, you must configure the community > > string (and user in the case of v3), and this security relationship is > > one that must be administered over the course of the device's > > lifetime. The market is pretty clear in the fact that it wants an AP > > that can auto-discover ARs and establish a security relationship w/o > > any administrator involvement. The draft's use of certificates > > provides this feature, but I agree that a shared secret mechanism > > should probably be defined as well. > > If I'm understanding this right, the problem is that SNMP does not know how to use certificates for authentication.... I don't know how hard it is to solve this if it is needed as you described.... > > alper > > > > > > PatC > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seamoby mailing list > > Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 10 11:32:05 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23968 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3AFbnt20269 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:49 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3AFbn820266 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:49 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23958 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3AFbW820110; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3A7nO817795 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:49:24 -0400 Received: from web40509.mail.yahoo.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id DAA10731 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030410074551.96528.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [137.132.3.12] by web40509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:45:51 CST Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:45:51 +0800 (CST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Raymond=20Jayaraj?= Subject: Re: [Seamoby] LWAPP To: richard.h.paine@boeing.com Cc: seamoby@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, (Apologies if you receive(d) 2 copies of this email) Pardon me for borrowing a bit of your time. I'm a researcher working on signal strength based anticipative L3 handover over over 802.11. Will 802.11k make signal strength measurements for the serving and neighbour APs (as seen by the mobile) available thru APIs? - Ray -------------------------------------------------------- Raymond J. Jayabal | I2R, A-STAR jraymond@i2r.a-star.edu.sg | 20 Science Park Rd | #02-34/37 Tel: +65 6870 9330 | Singapore 117674 -------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Promote your business from just $5 a month! http://sg.biztools.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 10 11:32:06 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23980 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3AFbof20285 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:50 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3AFbn820282 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:50 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23956 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3AFba820208; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3AFH8818440 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:17:08 -0400 Received: from bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23360 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.8.102] ([172.16.8.102]) by bsn-mail-01.bstormnetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:13:27 -0700 Subject: RE: [Seamoby] LWAPP From: Pat Calhoun To: "Paine, Richard H" Cc: Alper Yegin , seamoby@ietf.org, skelly@airespace.com, rsuri@airespace.com, bob@airespace.com, Glen Zorn , funato@docomolabs-usa.com, "Tim Olson (tolson)" , candren@intersil.com, Charles Wright , "Chindapol, Aik" , cisco - Peter "Ecclesine (cisco - ""Peter Ecclesine)" , Daryl Kaiser , garth.hillman@amd.com, hworstell@research.att.com, Mehul.Mehta@Synad.com, dlevesque@icefyre.com, KosticZ@tce.com, Lars.P.Falk@telia.se, mbenven@avaya.com, Stefan.Rommer@erv.ericsson.se, Ye.Chen@motorola.com, zhun.zhong@philips.com, akira.maeki@hal.hitachi.com, "IEEE/RRM - Bob O'Hara" , skellern@cisco.com, fanny_mlinarsky@azimuth.net, heejung@etri.re.kr, noman.rangwala@analog.com, Walter.Johnson@motorola.com, simon@instant802.com, Joe Kwak , "Kraemer, Bruce ""(bkraemer)" , Mike Moreton , Darwin Engwer , "Rosdahl.Jon" , Simon Black , "Stephen P. Pope" , IEEE/RRM - Yasuhiko Inoue , IEEE/RRM - Andrew Myles , IEEE/RRM - Christoph Euscher , IEEE/RRM - Fred Haisch , IEEE/RRM - Fuji Watanabe , IEEE/RRM - Graham Celine , IEEE/RRM - Guenter Kleindl , IEEE/RRM - Hasse Sinivaara , IEEE/RRM - Hidenori Aoki , IEEE/RRM - Hon Mo Yung , IEEE/RRM - Jari Jokela , IEEE/RRM - Leo Manteban , IEEE/RRM - Malik Audeh , IEEE/RRM - Marty Lefkowitz , IEEE/RRM - Masahiro Takagi , IEEE/RRM - Mika Kasslin , IEEE/RRM - Mike Wilhoyte , IEEE/RRM - Narasimhan Verkatish , IEEE/RRM - Patrick Worfolk , IEEE/RRM - Tom Mahoney , IEEE/RRM - Tomoko Adachi In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1049987499.8013.2549.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 10 Apr 2003 08:11:40 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2003 15:13:27.0164 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCAE0BC0:01C2FF73] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 2003-04-09 at 14:51, Paine, Richard H wrote: > Are you all aware that IEEE 802.11k is working to make the measurements in the 802.11 PHYs and MACs available for upper layers? This includes per AP tables and per STA tables. I think your triggers could be determined from the signal strength and other measurements available through 802.11k. Correct, and since LWAPP provides signal strength to the AR, it would be a great container to send the 11k info to the controller. PatC _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 17 13:00:38 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28489 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3HH9mx22302 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:09:48 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3HH9m822299 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:09:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28479 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 196CmP-0001Jx-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:02:33 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 196CmO-0001Jt-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:02:32 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3HH9T822281; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:09:29 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3HH8c822226 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:08:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28427 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 196ClI-0001JR-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:01:24 -0400 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 196ClH-0001JN-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:01:23 -0400 Message-ID: <016101c30503$b9b03700$246015ac@DOCOMOKEMPF> From: "James Kempf" To: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:06:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] Last Call on draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Seamoby mobility terminology document, draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt, is now ready to go to IESG. We will do a quick, one week last call on it just to be sure people are happy. Last call ends on April 24. jak _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 24 11:03:27 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19054 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3OF66M16725 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:06:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3OF66816722 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:06:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19043 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198iHj-0006Pw-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:05:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198iHj-0006Ps-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:05:15 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3OF5i816698; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:05:44 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3OF4D816639 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:04:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19015 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198iFu-0006PO-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:03:22 -0400 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198iFt-0006PL-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:03:21 -0400 Message-ID: <00c401c30a72$7f2c3920$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> From: "James Kempf" To: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:02:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] Last Call Complete on draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Working Group Last Call has completed on draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt. No comments were received from the Working Group, so the draft will be sent to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC. jak _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 24 13:13:11 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23876 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3OHFq626953 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:15:52 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3OHFq826950 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:15:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23869 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198kJG-0007S9-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:14:58 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198kJG-0007S5-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:14:58 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3OHFY826925; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:15:34 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3OHEo826852 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:14:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23829 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198kIH-0007RP-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:13:57 -0400 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198kIG-0007RH-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:13:56 -0400 Message-ID: <014d01c30a84$bcb47610$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> From: "James Kempf" To: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:12:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So it has come to my attention that some comments were sent to the author during the Last Call period without the WG chairs or mailing list being informed. I'd like to remind WG members that comments should be posted to the list during the last call period so people have a chance to review them. I've asked Jukka to incorporate these comments and issue a new version. I would like to propose that we send the document directly to the IESG, without going through another Last Call, since no comments were generated on the list during Last Call on the current version. jak _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 25 01:39:55 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16334 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3P5gpu14554 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:42:51 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P5gp814551 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:42:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16331 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198vxt-0004xi-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:41:41 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198vxt-0004xf-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:41:41 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P5gT814532; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:42:29 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P5d4814343 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:39:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16236 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198vuE-0004wL-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:37:54 -0400 Received: from courier.cs.helsinki.fi ([128.214.9.1] helo=mail.cs.helsinki.fi) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198vuD-0004wI-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:37:54 -0400 Received: from mannersaari.cs.Helsinki.FI (mannersaari.cs.helsinki.fi [::ffff:128.214.11.173]) (IDENT: jmanner, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:38:20 +0300 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:38:20 +0300 (EEST) From: Jukka MJ Manner To: James Kempf cc: seamoby@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress In-Reply-To: <014d01c30a84$bcb47610$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, true, I have received one comment, from Randy Presuhn (see Seamoby list on April 5th), which are very helpful. Still, those were sent prior to the Last Call, but I did not have time to include those at that time and issue a new version. Thus, as those are the only comments, I will include those into the draft and submit a final version today. Regards, Jukka On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, James Kempf wrote: > So it has come to my attention that some comments were sent to the > author during the Last Call period without the WG chairs or mailing > list being informed. I'd like to remind WG members that comments > should be posted to the list during the last call period so people > have a chance to review them. > > I've asked Jukka to incorporate these comments and issue a new > version. I would like to propose that we send the document directly to > the IESG, without going through another Last Call, since no comments > were generated on the list during Last Call on the current version. > > > jak > > _______________________________________________ > Seamoby mailing list > Seamoby@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 25 02:00:32 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA17218 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3P63T016307 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:03:29 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P63T816304 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:03:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16695 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198wHq-000547-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:02:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198wHq-000544-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:02:18 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P63A816228; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:03:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P62p816094 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:02:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16643 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198wHF-00053Y-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:01:41 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198wHE-00053L-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:01:40 -0400 Received: from galibier.sfc.wide.ad.jp (galibier.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.153]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id F041D5D00D; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:01:37 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:59:35 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Jukka MJ Manner Cc: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, seamoby@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress Message-Id: <20030425145935.58e163a6.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <014d01c30a84$bcb47610$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Thanks for the Mobile Network section update since draft-02. A very few comments > true, I have received one comment, from Randy Presuhn (see Seamoby list on > April 5th), which are very helpful. Still, those were sent prior to the > Last Call, but I did not have time to include those at that time and issue > a new version. Thus, as those are the only comments, I will include those > into the draft and submit a final version today. "Mobile Network Prefix:" I don't understand why this is not defined in section 3 (it's not a general term, is it ?). "Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified:" I think this is not only for host mobility. This could apply for network mobility too (take the instance people carry a PAN). Misc: Credits may be given to the NEMO wg for NEMO-related terminology. The NEMO terminology draft is not referenced. Thierry. _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 25 03:07:00 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29265 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3P79xA31742 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:09:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P79w831739 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:09:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29238 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xKB-0005es-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:08:47 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xKA-0005ep-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:08:46 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P79e831714; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:09:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P76g830755 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:06:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29212 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xH0-0005e6-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:05:30 -0400 Received: from courier.cs.helsinki.fi ([128.214.9.1] helo=mail.cs.helsinki.fi) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xH0-0005e3-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:05:30 -0400 Received: from mannersaari.cs.Helsinki.FI (mannersaari.cs.helsinki.fi [::ffff:128.214.11.173]) (IDENT: jmanner, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:05:58 +0300 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:05:58 +0300 (EEST) From: Jukka MJ Manner To: Thierry Ernst cc: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, seamoby@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress In-Reply-To: <20030425145935.58e163a6.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, some answers below. On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Thierry Ernst wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks for the Mobile Network section update since draft-02. > > A very few comments > > > true, I have received one comment, from Randy Presuhn (see Seamoby list on > > April 5th), which are very helpful. Still, those were sent prior to the > > Last Call, but I did not have time to include those at that time and issue > > a new version. Thus, as those are the only comments, I will include those > > into the draft and submit a final version today. > > > "Mobile Network Prefix:" > > I don't understand why this is not defined in section 3 (it's not a > general term, is it ?). JM: all other prefix-terms are in Section 2, thus, for consistency, that one was put there, too. > > "Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified:" > > I think this is not only for host mobility. This could apply for > network mobility too (take the instance people carry a PAN). JM: How would you rephrase that? I personally would like to make the host mobility part clear and simple. I could add into the definition of network mobility something like "Network mobility may also include the two subcategories of global and local network mobility.", or something. Let me know very soon. > > > Misc: > > Credits may be given to the NEMO wg for NEMO-related terminology. > The NEMO terminology draft is not referenced. JM: The NEMO terminology was referenced earlier, since we took terms from there. Now, we agreed that the terms included will in the Seamoby terminology will be removed from the NEMO terminology, thus, no need to reference it. Regards, Jukka _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 25 03:48:31 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29928 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3P7pUN01941 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:51:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P7pU801938 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:51:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29923 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xyL-0005tY-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:50:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xyL-0005tV-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:50:17 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P7pE801915; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:51:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P7oF801881 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:50:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29919 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xx8-0005tO-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:49:03 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198xx8-0005tL-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:49:02 -0400 Received: from galibier.sfc.wide.ad.jp (galibier.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.143.153]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CA865D00D; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:49:00 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:46:58 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Jukka MJ Manner Cc: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, seamoby@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress Message-Id: <20030425164658.77801bd9.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20030425145935.58e163a6.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > JM: all other prefix-terms are in Section 2, thus, for consistency, that > one was put there, too. OK. [well, as far as consistency is concerned, grouping it with nemo terms make sense too :-)] > > "Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified:" By the way, indentation is not good here: Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified: Global mobility Local mobility Macro mobility Micro mobility Network mobility -> Looks like network mobility is a sub-case. You may add one more tab before Micro/Macro if you keep your structure. > > I think this is not only for host mobility. This could apply for > > network mobility too (take the instance people carry a PAN). > > JM: How would you rephrase that? I personally would like to make the host > mobility part clear and simple. I could add into the definition of network > mobility something like "Network mobility may also include the two > subcategories of global and local network mobility.", or something. Let me > know very soon. Understood, simplicity is important, but for me there is no difference between host mobility and network mobility as far as micro/macro is concerned. So, to me it looks simpler to put both at the same level, and then define the subcategories. I would have paragraphs in this order: Host Mobility .... Network Mobility .... Two subcategories of mobility can be identified withing either host mobility and network mobility: Micro .... Macro .... etc. If you don't agree with my proposition, your proposed sentence is fine with me. > > Misc: > > > > Credits may be given to the NEMO wg for NEMO-related terminology. > > The NEMO terminology draft is not referenced. > > JM: The NEMO terminology was referenced earlier, since we took terms from > there. Now, we agreed that the terms included will in the Seamoby > terminology will be removed from the NEMO terminology, thus, no need to > reference it. True that it will be removed from draft-NEMO. But you have sentence "Some definitions of terminology have been adapted from [1], [7], [3], [2], [4], [9], [10], [11] and [12]", so why not add NEMO here ? If the reason is not to refer work in progress, it doesn't hold, as there is many i-d in the reference section. I think something loose like "a more detailed network mobility terminology is defined in" other_document | NEMO WG | draft-nemo could appear in the mobile network section because it keeps people aware that more detail document exists. [Note I won't be eager about all of this. Just propositions]. Anyway, good work, and many thanks for puting all terminology together. Thierry _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 25 03:54:26 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00021 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3P7vQW02169 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:57:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P7vQ802166 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:57:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00014 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:53:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198y45-0005up-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:56:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198y45-0005um-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:56:13 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P7v5802153; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:57:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3P7uo802118 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:56:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29995 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198y3V-0005ui-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:55:37 -0400 Received: from courier.cs.helsinki.fi ([128.214.9.1] helo=mail.cs.helsinki.fi) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198y3U-0005uf-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:55:37 -0400 Received: from mannersaari.cs.Helsinki.FI (mannersaari.cs.helsinki.fi [::ffff:128.214.11.173]) (IDENT: jmanner, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:56:03 +0300 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:56:03 +0300 (EEST) From: Jukka MJ Manner To: Thierry Ernst cc: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, seamoby@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress In-Reply-To: <20030425164658.77801bd9.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'll try to make the changes as you suggest. My point in not referencing the NEMO terminology drafts was that the definitions in this draft will not appear in the NEMO documents, and thus, it can not be referenced for those terms. Still, I can add a pointer to the NEMO terminology as indication of where to find more terminology for that area. Regards, Jukka ps. A new final version will come out today if all goes well. On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Thierry Ernst wrote: > > > > JM: all other prefix-terms are in Section 2, thus, for consistency, that > > one was put there, too. > > OK. [well, as far as consistency is concerned, grouping it with nemo > terms make sense too :-)] > > > > "Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified:" > > By the way, indentation is not good here: > > Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified: > > Global mobility > > Local mobility > > Macro mobility > > Micro mobility > > Network mobility > > -> Looks like network mobility is a sub-case. You may add one more tab > before Micro/Macro if you keep your structure. > > > > > I think this is not only for host mobility. This could apply for > > > network mobility too (take the instance people carry a PAN). > > > > JM: How would you rephrase that? I personally would like to make the host > > mobility part clear and simple. I could add into the definition of network > > mobility something like "Network mobility may also include the two > > subcategories of global and local network mobility.", or something. Let me > > know very soon. > > Understood, simplicity is important, but for me there is no difference > between host mobility and network mobility as far as micro/macro is > concerned. So, to me it looks simpler to put both at the same level, and > then define the subcategories. > > I would have paragraphs in this order: > > Host Mobility > .... > > Network Mobility > .... > > Two subcategories of mobility can be identified withing either host > mobility and network mobility: > > Micro > .... > Macro > .... > etc. > > If you don't agree with my proposition, your proposed sentence is fine with me. > > > > Misc: > > > > > > Credits may be given to the NEMO wg for NEMO-related terminology. > > > The NEMO terminology draft is not referenced. > > > > JM: The NEMO terminology was referenced earlier, since we took terms from > > there. Now, we agreed that the terms included will in the Seamoby > > terminology will be removed from the NEMO terminology, thus, no need to > > reference it. > > True that it will be removed from draft-NEMO. > > But you have sentence "Some definitions of terminology have been adapted > from [1], [7], [3], [2], [4], [9], [10], [11] and [12]", so why not add > NEMO here ? If the reason is not to refer work in progress, it doesn't > hold, as there is many i-d in the reference section. > > I think something loose like "a more detailed network mobility > terminology is defined in" other_document | NEMO WG | draft-nemo could > appear in the mobile network section because it keeps people aware that > more detail document exists. > > [Note I won't be eager about all of this. Just propositions]. > > Anyway, good work, and many thanks for puting all terminology together. > > Thierry > > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 25 11:22:43 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12127 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3PFPr402772 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:25:53 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3PFPq802769 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:25:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12096 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19953u-0001SJ-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:24:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19953u-0001SG-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:24:30 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3PFPd802731; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:25:39 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3PFLm802550 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:21:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12042 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1994zy-0001QY-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:20:26 -0400 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1994zx-0001QV-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:20:25 -0400 Message-ID: <009c01c30b3e$0ba05280$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> From: "James Kempf" To: "Jukka MJ Manner" , "Thierry Ernst" Cc: References: Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:19:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, this is the right course. There should be no duplication in terminology between the Nemo draft and this one, and both should reference the other for terms that are not included. The reference should be in the non-normative references section, because this draft will likely go to RFC first. Or is the Nemo draft far enough along that it is also ready to go to RFC? jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jukka MJ Manner" To: "Thierry Ernst" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress > > Hi, > > I'll try to make the changes as you suggest. My point in not referencing > the NEMO terminology drafts was that the definitions in this draft will > not appear in the NEMO documents, and thus, it can not be referenced for > those terms. Still, I can add a pointer to the NEMO terminology as > indication of where to find more terminology for that area. > > Regards, > Jukka > > ps. A new final version will come out today if all goes well. > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Thierry Ernst wrote: > > > > > > > > JM: all other prefix-terms are in Section 2, thus, for consistency, that > > > one was put there, too. > > > > OK. [well, as far as consistency is concerned, grouping it with nemo > > terms make sense too :-)] > > > > > > "Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified:" > > > > By the way, indentation is not good here: > > > > Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified: > > > > Global mobility > > > > Local mobility > > > > Macro mobility > > > > Micro mobility > > > > Network mobility > > > > -> Looks like network mobility is a sub-case. You may add one more tab > > before Micro/Macro if you keep your structure. > > > > > > > > I think this is not only for host mobility. This could apply for > > > > network mobility too (take the instance people carry a PAN). > > > > > > JM: How would you rephrase that? I personally would like to make the host > > > mobility part clear and simple. I could add into the definition of network > > > mobility something like "Network mobility may also include the two > > > subcategories of global and local network mobility.", or something. Let me > > > know very soon. > > > > Understood, simplicity is important, but for me there is no difference > > between host mobility and network mobility as far as micro/macro is > > concerned. So, to me it looks simpler to put both at the same level, and > > then define the subcategories. > > > > I would have paragraphs in this order: > > > > Host Mobility > > .... > > > > Network Mobility > > .... > > > > Two subcategories of mobility can be identified withing either host > > mobility and network mobility: > > > > Micro > > .... > > Macro > > .... > > etc. > > > > If you don't agree with my proposition, your proposed sentence is fine with me. > > > > > > Misc: > > > > > > > > Credits may be given to the NEMO wg for NEMO-related terminology. > > > > The NEMO terminology draft is not referenced. > > > > > > JM: The NEMO terminology was referenced earlier, since we took terms from > > > there. Now, we agreed that the terms included will in the Seamoby > > > terminology will be removed from the NEMO terminology, thus, no need to > > > reference it. > > > > True that it will be removed from draft-NEMO. > > > > But you have sentence "Some definitions of terminology have been adapted > > from [1], [7], [3], [2], [4], [9], [10], [11] and [12]", so why not add > > NEMO here ? If the reason is not to refer work in progress, it doesn't > > hold, as there is many i-d in the reference section. > > > > I think something loose like "a more detailed network mobility > > terminology is defined in" other_document | NEMO WG | draft-nemo could > > appear in the mobile network section because it keeps people aware that > > more detail document exists. > > > > [Note I won't be eager about all of this. Just propositions]. > > > > Anyway, good work, and many thanks for puting all terminology together. > > > > Thierry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 25 11:22:44 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12137 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3PFPrc02789 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:25:53 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3PFPr802786 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:25:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12100 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19953v-0001SP-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:24:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19953v-0001SM-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:24:31 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3PFPT802714; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:25:29 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3PFKM802499 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:20:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12028 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1994ya-0001QR-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:19:00 -0400 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1994yZ-0001QK-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:18:59 -0400 Message-ID: <009601c30b3d$d46f9960$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> From: "James Kempf" To: "Thierry Ernst" , "Jukka MJ Manner" Cc: References: <20030425145935.58e163a6.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030425164658.77801bd9.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:17:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry, Is the Nemo terminology draft also a WG item that is intended to go to RFC? If so, does it contain anything that is duplicate with this draft? jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thierry Ernst" To: "Jukka MJ Manner" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress > > > > JM: all other prefix-terms are in Section 2, thus, for consistency, that > > one was put there, too. > > OK. [well, as far as consistency is concerned, grouping it with nemo > terms make sense too :-)] > > > > "Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified:" > > By the way, indentation is not good here: > > Two subcategories of "Host mobility" can be identified: > > Global mobility > > Local mobility > > Macro mobility > > Micro mobility > > Network mobility > > -> Looks like network mobility is a sub-case. You may add one more tab > before Micro/Macro if you keep your structure. > > > > > I think this is not only for host mobility. This could apply for > > > network mobility too (take the instance people carry a PAN). > > > > JM: How would you rephrase that? I personally would like to make the host > > mobility part clear and simple. I could add into the definition of network > > mobility something like "Network mobility may also include the two > > subcategories of global and local network mobility.", or something. Let me > > know very soon. > > Understood, simplicity is important, but for me there is no difference > between host mobility and network mobility as far as micro/macro is > concerned. So, to me it looks simpler to put both at the same level, and > then define the subcategories. > > I would have paragraphs in this order: > > Host Mobility > .... > > Network Mobility > .... > > Two subcategories of mobility can be identified withing either host > mobility and network mobility: > > Micro > .... > Macro > .... > etc. > > If you don't agree with my proposition, your proposed sentence is fine with me. > > > > Misc: > > > > > > Credits may be given to the NEMO wg for NEMO-related terminology. > > > The NEMO terminology draft is not referenced. > > > > JM: The NEMO terminology was referenced earlier, since we took terms from > > there. Now, we agreed that the terms included will in the Seamoby > > terminology will be removed from the NEMO terminology, thus, no need to > > reference it. > > True that it will be removed from draft-NEMO. > > But you have sentence "Some definitions of terminology have been adapted > from [1], [7], [3], [2], [4], [9], [10], [11] and [12]", so why not add > NEMO here ? If the reason is not to refer work in progress, it doesn't > hold, as there is many i-d in the reference section. > > I think something loose like "a more detailed network mobility > terminology is defined in" other_document | NEMO WG | draft-nemo could > appear in the mobile network section because it keeps people aware that > more detail document exists. > > [Note I won't be eager about all of this. Just propositions]. > > Anyway, good work, and many thanks for puting all terminology together. > > Thierry > > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Sat Apr 26 15:43:50 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26529 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3QJlXg24098 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:47:33 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3QJlS824091 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:47:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26506 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 199Vbx-0001BA-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:45:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 199Vbc-0001B1-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:45:04 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3QJkB824059; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:46:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3MLnb813579 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:49:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27743 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1985UO-0005ft-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:39:44 -0400 Received: from mailhost.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1985UN-0005fb-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:39:43 -0400 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (darkstar.iprg.nokia.com [205.226.5.69]) by mailhost.iprg.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3-GLGS) with ESMTP id OAA22252; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id h3MLcRf10646; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:38:27 -0700 X-mProtect: <200304222138> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.2.89, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdsS0n81; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:38:26 PDT Message-ID: <3EA5B652.BFA553C@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:38:26 -0700 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Nokia Research Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jukka MJ Manner , Randy Presuhn CC: Seamoby Working Group , Markku Kojo , tapio.suihko@vtt.fi, Tapio Suihko , Philip Eardley , Dave Wisely , "Hancock, Robert" , Nikos Georganopoulos Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-03.txt References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jukka and Randy, A bit late, but... Does it really say "Universty of elsinki"? Jukka MJ Manner wrote: > > Hi Randy, > > thank you for this very thorough review - it was awful to read how many > mistakes the draft has...:) All points noted and will be dealt with in the > future version. Thank you. > > Charlie, can you comment on the Section 2 issues and definitions? > > Section 2, "Bandwidth" should be expressed as information carrying > > capacity PER UNIT TIME. Without the time dimension, it's not > > bandwidth. Correct! > > Section 2, "Bandwidth Utilization" neglects link overhead. The current > > definition sounds closer to "goodput". A better definition would be: The actual rate of information transfer achieved over a link, expressed as a percent of the available bandwidth on that link. > > Section 2, "Channel Access Protocol" the second sentence seems to conflict > > with the previous definition. The phrase "uncontested access to the > > medium" doesn't seem to be quite right for FDMA or CDMA, for example. > > Same comment applies to the MAC definition. Perhaps the distinction > > between "channel" and "medium" should be more rigorously observed. How about: A protocol for mediating access to, and possibly allocation of, the various channels available within the physical communications medium. Nodes participating in the channel access protocol agree to communicate only when they have uncontested access to one of the channels, so that there will be no interference. > > Section 2, "Fairness" sounds like it means to say something like "fairly > > available" instead of "fairly equal" Correct. > > Secton 2, "Mobility Factor": so the units would be moves per initiation? > > (rather than something like pdu, exchange, or transaction) What does > > this mean for connectionless protocols like SNMP? The definition is as I understand it to be commonly used, but it does make the mobility factor to be application dependent. I guess the terminology could be replaced or deleted, but it is often used, and is meaningful so I hope it can be kept even if not very precise by this criterion. Higher "mobility factor" is seen to correlate with more benefit from better handovers. Higher. More. Better. Yes. No, I haven't joined the marketing dept. > > Section 2, "Neighbor": "forwarding node" -> "forwarding node." > > > > Section 2, "Payload": "Note," -> "Note" These are fine with me! Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 28 06:19:11 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25641 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3SANfV28151 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:23:41 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3SANf828147 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:23:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25617 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19A5kk-0001pM-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:20:54 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19A5kj-0001pI-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:20:53 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3SANJ828128; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:23:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3SALJ828068 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:21:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25603 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19A5iS-0001oz-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:18:32 -0400 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19A5iR-0001op-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:18:32 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (nat-box.k2.keio.ac.jp [131.113.23.226]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 055B65D0B0; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:18:35 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:14:49 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: "James Kempf" Cc: jmanner@cs.helsinki.fi, seamoby@ietf.org, tj@kniveton.com Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Progress Message-Id: <20030428191449.66432516.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <009601c30b3d$d46f9960$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> References: <20030425145935.58e163a6.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <20030425164658.77801bd9.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <009601c30b3d$d46f9960$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > James: > Is the Nemo terminology draft also a WG item that is intended to go to > RFC? > > If so, does it contain anything that is duplicate with this draft? Hi James, At San Francisco, it was decided that the NEMO terminology draft would be revised and published as NEMO WG item. I think the draft is close to completion, but I would prefer waiting for the output work of our basic support design team who might well recommend addition of new terms. I'm due to submit the new draft this week (well, I hope) Thierrry. -- Thierry Ernst, WIDE at Keio University, Japan E-mail: ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp Web: http://www.sfc.wide.ad.jp/~ernst/ -- Jun Murai Lab, Keio University Faculty of Environmental Information, 5322 Endo, Fujisawa-shi, Kanagawa 252-8520, Japan. Phone : +81-466-49-1100 Fax : +81-466-49-1395 _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 28 08:51:22 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29226 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3SCtuX06929 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:55:56 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3SCtu806926 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:55:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29213 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19A882-0002jP-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:53:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19A881-0002jM-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:53:05 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3SCs3806862; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:54:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3SBVN800518 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:31:23 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA26884; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200304281126.HAA26884@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: seamoby@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:26:20 -0400 Subject: [Seamoby] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting Working Group of the IETF. Title : Mobility Related Terminology Author(s) : J. Manner, M. Kojo Filename : draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2003-4-25 There is a need for common definitions of terminology in the work to be done around IP mobility. This memo defines terms for mobility related terminology. It is intended as a living document for use by the Seamoby Working Group in Seamoby drafts and in WG discussions, but not limited in scope to the terms needed by the Seamoby Working Group. Other working groups dealing with mobility may take advantage of this terminology. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. 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This draft is a work item of the Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting Working Group of the IETF. Title : Mobility Related Terminology Author(s) : J. Manner, M. Kojo Filename : draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2003-4-25 There is a need for common definitions of terminology in the work to be done around IP mobility. This memo defines terms for mobility related terminology. It is intended as a living document for use by the Seamoby Working Group in Seamoby drafts and in WG discussions, but not limited in scope to the terms needed by the Seamoby Working Group. Other working groups dealing with mobility may take advantage of this terminology. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-4-25120740.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-4-25120740.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 30 18:49:13 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28420 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h3UMswJ15858 for seamoby-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:54:58 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3UMsw815855 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:54:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28412 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19B0Pe-0004HF-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:50:54 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19B0Pe-0004H6-00 for seamoby-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:50:54 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3UMsV815840; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:54:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3UMrl815812 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:53:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28336 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19B0OW-0004Fz-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:49:44 -0400 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19B0OP-0004Fa-00 for seamoby@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:49:38 -0400 Message-ID: <005801c30f6a$93ab6860$766015ac@DCLKEMPFTP> From: "James Kempf" To: References: <200304281821.OAA09307@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Seamoby] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:48:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: seamoby-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: seamoby-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: seamoby@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So are there any objections to sending this to the IESG? (Going once, going twice...) jak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: [Seamoby] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Mobility Related Terminology > Author(s) : J. Manner, M. Kojo > Filename : draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt > Pages : 32 > Date : 2003-4-25 > > There is a need for common definitions of terminology in the work to > be done around IP mobility. This memo defines terms for mobility > related terminology. It is intended as a living document for use by > the Seamoby Working Group in Seamoby drafts and in WG discussions, > but not limited in scope to the terms needed by the Seamoby Working > Group. Other working groups dealing with mobility may take advantage > of this terminology. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-termin ology-04.txt > > To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to > ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-seamoby-mobility-terminology-04.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > _______________________________________________ Seamoby mailing list Seamoby@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby