From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Fri Jul 12 03:07:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32DB921F9D8B for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 03:07:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1RQQxfso4Eaq for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 03:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD84221F9D8E for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 03:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 13AEA14A299; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 10:07:00 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C9F14A28A for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 10:06:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=opendkim.org header.b=YuqrhMO5; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=elandsys.com header.b=ZsIBTVxm Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id iVaaRV1uV5uk for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 10:06:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00ED414A277 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 10:06:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.137.208]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6CA6iB3014001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 03:06:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1373623616; bh=dLc43O0ExcBjlUUeZoleiyt5Z4CbclJBfkBBptk3Y0w=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=YuqrhMO5B2ui+/Sy6dBhGoRi61Dyt8h/PV9X3WUNFy5eW8sGSJ2DoAZYKEr43Hx67 ArON+BkPiY0xh5u7ziEFR+7iSWQDsk/DQnwFC/ie6rgUsz3EW9rbwSJT5ITDVoDprU dBsOYNH34VFrtkF3stBhxX8Oyf+CJzuug9d7HpqM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1373623616; i=@elandsys.com; bh=dLc43O0ExcBjlUUeZoleiyt5Z4CbclJBfkBBptk3Y0w=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=ZsIBTVxmND/MOcnaA4Prn+DeIdtfiX5CBrFhCAeeuAyeKQotfL5nGjoEZTpfBZmlE La9mPhGYJehEecqFF2QH0+cshSqPFSkW6zrh/AoZlPS9VE6/VtYcwl1ixkCnh9qew/ NxCIz7T3GAhKJleAS9mDxAq1MFSgJICuOevrs0Mg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712030130.0beda980@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 03:06:04 -0700 To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org From: S Moonesamy Subject: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Hello, The SSH File Transfer Protocol provides secure file transfer functionality over any reliable data stream. It is the standard file transfer protocol for use with the SSH2 protocol. draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 ( http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 ) describes the file transfer protocol and its interface to the SSH2 protocol suite. I would appreciate if you read the draft and comment. Regards, S. Moonesamy From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Fri Jul 12 04:37:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFE621F9DB4 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 04:37:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NJSi-PkWAhR1 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 04:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D017821F9D46 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 04:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 1FCBD14A1C1; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 11:37:22 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C1F14A160 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 11:37:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=auckland.ac.nz Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 1FquflL8AWlY for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 11:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx2.auckland.ac.nz (mx2.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.125.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14C6014A168 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 11:37:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=auckland.ac.nz; i=@auckland.ac.nz; q=dns/txt; s=uoa; t=1373629039; x=1405165039; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=53XHhRxLmKrEr92UOtb6+j6Qza0uWGptaEEDI2rGcCc=; b=NaeckC7caYvGq919DotX4aiO59IzxAlJYl6UJEV/HKZhj0jySOAZAFk3 1KUXup/0sSIz8dqy7PA458blcB7NDPLSEQIG0oTbljbdwL/4sl0hpWEnG +PJVQWSq0kDiHzJGADag2CIdg6YMDrOV20Fsu443bsYR58Cpg1bbu5q1D E=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,652,1367928000"; d="scan'208";a="198555493" X-Ironport-HAT: MAIL-SERVERS - $RELAYED X-Ironport-Source: 130.216.4.106 - Outgoing - Outgoing Received: from uxchange10-fe2.uoa.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.106]) by mx2-int.auckland.ac.nz with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 12 Jul 2013 23:37:13 +1200 Received: from UXCN10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([169.254.10.253]) by uxchange10-fe2.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.106]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 23:37:13 +1200 From: Peter Gutmann To: "ietf-ssh@netbsd.org" Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Topic: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Index: Ac5+9CZ/kL6HMybdQnyYxj3zPLAdMw== Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 11:37:12 +0000 Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.216.158.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list S Moonesamy writes:=0A= =0A= >The SSH File Transfer Protocol provides secure file transfer functionality= =0A= >over any reliable data stream. It is the standard file transfer protocol = for=0A= >use with the SSH2 protocol. draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 (=0A= >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 ) describes t= he=0A= >file transfer protocol and its interface to the SSH2 protocol suite.=0A= >=0A= >I would appreciate if you read the draft and comment.=0A= =0A= Some background information on this decision would be useful, for example w= hy=0A= restart work on it now, and why use version 3 of the protocol as the baseli= ne?=0A= =0A= Peter.=0A= From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Fri Jul 12 05:32:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA2511E8106 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 05:32:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yww55KCBr8Mb for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 05:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3398C11E8103 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 05:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 4164114A289; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:32:34 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C09614A27E for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:32:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=opendkim.org header.b=cCmpdg8w; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=elandsys.com header.b=UnM8998A Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id C_y0hksVSNiC for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE9E14A274 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.156.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6CCWENm021166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Jul 2013 05:32:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1373632346; bh=LCfz5K06Vgfu0XhigxkUvXqj2kKVRJ9RMTAHThtpsyk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=cCmpdg8w/i+XDjDLj7rNRgoYi3NR07NW4f9Ji29oDMEjT70c9qfpB967tjEnypf9p C/m48+ZiX8xAhUEwl866ZqYkLaPbYXgJhDCsnZpm7KR6QbKUNPnO0RMzrDaL8SN4oW ZBeElbDiCyPN55JIg5OnXq8j6m3v3WeKt+TnAB94= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1373632346; i=@elandsys.com; bh=LCfz5K06Vgfu0XhigxkUvXqj2kKVRJ9RMTAHThtpsyk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=UnM8998AM764Xd6XvAfwFLjLA2zyJ+9TSgmN0goeZtazRNAaVCFc3cZ00rnICVVqX rpbI/eWcGnBobvOYRAitX1vwRhEayMPDnSx/r6kiPoV0pTYrHjnNOAw40MGQYf/exU jqsYDLRxpVols9k8Hbk0OlZ85FAyuXlfn7Enj1oY= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 05:18:35 -0700 To: Peter Gutmann From: S Moonesamy Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auck land.ac.nz> References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Hi Peter, At 04:37 12-07-2013, Peter Gutmann wrote: >Some background information on this decision would be useful, for example why >restart work on it now, and why use version 3 of the protocol as the baseline? There was a short discussion a few months ago about Section 6.1 of an expired SFTP drafts. I used Version 3 as the baseline as that is the version which OpenSSH implemented. In my opinion it would be easier to document Version 3 as an IETF specification instead of trying to pursue the previous efforts. Regards, S. Moonesamy From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Fri Jul 12 08:44:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA5C21F9307 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:44:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dm4pmZV7T3MK for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF5D21F91BF for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id D41D714A28A; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:44:06 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1837C14A23E for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:44:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id pD3_GpGq5Az0 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:44:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skroderider.denisbider.com (skroderider.denisbider.com [50.18.172.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DD5C14A22F for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:44:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Footer: ZGVuaXNiaWRlci5jb20= Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by skroderider.denisbider.com (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher AES128-SHA (128 bits)); Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:43:22 +0100 Message-ID: From: "denis bider \(Bitvise\)" To: "Peter Gutmann" , "S Moonesamy" Cc: References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:42:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list A fair number of implementations, including ours, implement SFTP versions 4 and 6, as specified in: draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt as well as extensions specified in: draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt Just because one open source implementation chooses to be stuck in the past - apparently because SFTP version 3 is simplistic, and offered most of what is needed on their target platform - doesn't mean it should get to dictate the standard. The latest SFTP version is 6. Restarting standardization at 3 doesn't mean implementations of 4 and 6 are going to go away. It in fact means that two concurrent SFTP version trees are going to exist in the future. I think this is a poor decision, and I do not support it. Any standardization efforts should continue where these documents left off: draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt If OpenSSH chooses to be stuck in the past and implement an older version of the protocol known as SFTP version 3, then the OpenSSH project can document the version they implement, but based on one implementation, that doesn't need to be an internet standard. -----Original Message----- From: S Moonesamy Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 06:18 To: Peter Gutmann Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Hi Peter, At 04:37 12-07-2013, Peter Gutmann wrote: >Some background information on this decision would be useful, for example >why >restart work on it now, and why use version 3 of the protocol as the >baseline? There was a short discussion a few months ago about Section 6.1 of an expired SFTP drafts. I used Version 3 as the baseline as that is the version which OpenSSH implemented. In my opinion it would be easier to document Version 3 as an IETF specification instead of trying to pursue the previous efforts. Regards, S. Moonesamy From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Jul 13 05:56:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6B021F9B4D for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 05:56:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.195 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.195 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.793, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7gQTEspGhcCm for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 05:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D004521F9B40 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 05:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 6483114A216; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 12:56:35 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CE014A214 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 12:56:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id P9iHdFI5XGGl for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 12:56:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG [216.46.0.66]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0FB14A20F for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 12:56:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29783; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:56:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mouse Message-Id: <201307131256.IAA29783@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. X-Message-Flag: Microsoft: the company who gave us the botnet zombies. X-Composition-Start-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:44:45 -0400 (EDT) To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712030130.0beda980@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712030130.0beda980@elandnews.com> Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list > The SSH File Transfer Protocol provides secure file transfer > functionality over any reliable data stream. Well...it, combined with the rest of ssh, does; sftp itself doesn't provide any significant level of security, depending on lower layers for that. But, really, it provides a lot more than file transfer; it's really a remote filesystem access protocol, misnamed as a file transfer protocol. If you really want a file transfer protocol, I'd suggest using a slight mutation of FTP (using ssh channels rather than TCP connections). But, apparently, people prefer a remote filesystem access protocol, even a misnamed one. My reaction upon looking at the draft is "what's the motivation?". That is, what does this draft offer beyond the existing spec? (Besides the version-number regression others have already pointed out.) If it really is just the things listed in appendix A, it strikes me as not worth the version-number confusion. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Jul 13 07:04:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC0621F9DCD for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:04:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uN1Er-Xaj0wW for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E3E21F9D8A for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 07:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 5FA1D14A245; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 14:03:46 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 197E914A241 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 14:03:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id oqLjFUmgYOcJ for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 14:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG [216.46.0.66]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3652814A231 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 14:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02778; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Mouse Message-Id: <201307131259.IAA02778@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. X-Message-Flag: Microsoft: the company who gave us the botnet zombies. X-Composition-Start-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:57:08 -0400 (EDT) To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 In-Reply-To: References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list > [...], as specified in: > draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt > as well as extensions specified in: > draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt Where can one find those? ftp.ietf.org doesn't seem to have them; the Moonesamy draft is the only one I get asking for *filexfer*. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Jul 13 10:05:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F70421F9ED4 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:05:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MANGLED_OFF=2.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aM2kiQfXwh+0 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F4E21F9ED3 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 10:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 9436A14A27E; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 17:05:01 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E969B14A191 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 17:04:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id eX4lR93VRWTk for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 17:04:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from db9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (mail-db9lp0250.outbound.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9000F14A16D for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 17:04:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail110-db9-R.bigfish.com (10.174.16.236) by DB9EHSOBE035.bigfish.com (10.174.14.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 15:34:28 +0000 Received: from mail110-db9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail110-db9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2374180836; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 15:34:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.224.51;KIP:(null);UIP:(null);IPV:NLI;H:P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net;RD:none;EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -18 X-BigFish: VPS-18(z54eehz1432Izz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6h1082kzz1033IL17326ah8275bh8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839hf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh12e5h137ah139eh13b6h1441h14ddh1504h1537h162dh1631h1758h1898h18e1h1946h19b5h1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1de2h1dfeh1dffh1e23h1155h) Received-SPF: pass (mail110-db9: domain of juniper.net designates 66.129.224.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.129.224.51; envelope-from=mdb@juniper.net; helo=P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ;-HQ.jnpr.net ; Received: from mail110-db9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail110-db9 (MessageSwitch) id 1373729666362776_3540; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 15:34:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB9EHSMHS020.bigfish.com (unknown [10.174.16.234]) by mail110-db9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D6F2E0046; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 15:34:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (66.129.224.51) by DB9EHSMHS020.bigfish.com (10.174.14.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 15:34:26 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:34:24 -0700 Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (eng-mail01.juniper.net [172.17.28.114]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id r6DFYDL68473; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mdb@juniper.net) Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eng-mail01.juniper.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5CA1148A; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:34:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Mouse CC: Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 In-Reply-To: <201307131259.IAA02778@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <201307131259.IAA02778@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Comments: In-Reply-To Mouse message dated "Sat, 13 Jul 2013 08:59:06 -0400." From: "Mark D. Baushke" X-Phone: +1 408 745-2952 (Office) X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.2; GNU Emacs 22.1.1 X-Face: #8D_6URD2G%vC.hzU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Mouse writes: > > [...], as specified in: > > > draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt This one lives here: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt but a history of the changes may be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer/ last updated 2006-07-18. > > as well as extensions specified in: > > > draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt This one lives here: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00 last updated 2005-10-05. > Where can one find those? ftp.ietf.org doesn't seem to have them; the > Moonesamy draft is the only one I get asking for *filexfer*. fwiw: Both drafts were authored by Joseph Galbraith of VanDyke Software and Oskari Saarenmaa of F-Secure. The draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer originally had co-authors Tatu Ylonen and Sami Lehtinen, but they dropped out around version 10 of the draft in June 2005. As near as I can figure, versions of the SFTP protocol are spread out over different iterations of the draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer document. Version 3 was enumerated first in the -02 draft. Version 2: Added SSH_FXP_RENAME Version 3: Added SSH_FXP_READLINK, SSH_FXP_SYMLINK SSH_FXP_EXTENDED, SSH_FXP_EXTENDED_REPLY, and SSH_FXP_STATUS Drafts -03 and -04 bumped the STFP version to 4 Draft -05 bumped the SFTP version to 5 Drafts -06 thru -13 all played with the SFTP version 6 Given that draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt had the latest description of version 6 of the SFTP protocol and none of the drafts ever were published as an RFC, there is already a fair amount of confusion with regard to SFTP versions. I am actually in favor of some form of the draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer as an informational RFC to document the packet types being used by SFTP as a way of getting them put into the http://www.iana.org/assignments/ssh-paramters/ssh-parameters.xhtml document so that everyone who implements some fraction of them uses the same packet type definitions. If this means that the SFTP version needs to be at some other version than 3 or 4 or 6, then so be it. OpenSSH has said that it implements draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt and provides a copy of it in http://www.openssh.com/txt/ What are the differences between draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13 and draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 ? Well, packet 20 is not listed in the draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13, but is named SSH_FXP_SYMLINK in moonesamy. Also moonesamy does not define packets 21 (SSH_FXP_LINK, 22 (SSH_FXP_BLOCK), 23 (SSH_FXP_UNBLOCK). So, did anyone ever implement packet types 21, 22, and 23? If so, what SFTP version did you call it and what do they do? -- Mark From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Jul 13 19:57:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6431821F9C88 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 19:57:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DZDNYh1b1SiI for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 19:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D3221F9C2B for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 19:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id A751D14A195; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 02:57:36 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16A714A188 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 02:57:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=auckland.ac.nz Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 5xEfDjuBqc_9 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 02:57:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx2.auckland.ac.nz (mx2.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.125.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C372B14A176 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 02:57:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=auckland.ac.nz; i=@auckland.ac.nz; q=dns/txt; s=uoa; t=1373770653; x=1405306653; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=+RXRpTeXSUvyEi3RonFhAbBcSCzh0ImyV8sIv1YBXrQ=; b=ANi+sxY7CJgUfO2p8pCjVqK2yNR7Vz9I0ssqS9ilEj2v74GyLe+jg8eu MXLk74LT4/QFQmkkfH47N+GgkmHaKOOev21sVNpL9pxuzKgIifVndV0SU Ofov7i44kRLJHVbkihRdWlgG9jXS5+deuqpPQr9V56gcTf6nPwCR+UPvT c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,662,1367928000"; d="scan'208";a="198810175" X-Ironport-HAT: MAIL-SERVERS - $RELAYED X-Ironport-Source: 130.216.4.112 - Outgoing - Outgoing Received: from uxchange10-fe1.uoa.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.112]) by mx2-int.auckland.ac.nz with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 14 Jul 2013 14:57:27 +1200 Received: from UXCN10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([169.254.10.253]) by uxchange10-fe1.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.112]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 14:57:27 +1200 From: Peter Gutmann To: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" , "mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG" Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Topic: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Index: Ac6APd781k9AAvRASNa7t7D5SQllvg== Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 02:57:26 +0000 Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470D8FC@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.216.158.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Mouse writes:=0A= =0A= >But, really, it provides a lot more than file transfer; it's really a remo= te=0A= >filesystem access protocol, misnamed as a file transfer protocol.=0A= =0A= I've always thought of it as an RPC mechanism for the Posix filesystem API.= =0A= I'm impressed at the level at which the Windows implementations manage to m= ap=0A= it to something that works under Windows.=0A= =0A= What I'd like to see is two distinct profiles, one for "move a file from A = to=0A= B", a la SCP, which I suspect would satisfy 90% of users, and then the full= =0A= second-system-effect RPC-of-Posix-API mechanism for everyone else. In=0A= particular at the moment it's just way too hard to add basic remote-file-= =0A= transfer capabilities to your app without having to reimplement half the RP= C=0A= API.=0A= =0A= In addition since there's no clear indication of which half you need, peopl= e=0A= have to use trial-and-error. I've talked to a few implementers of SFTP-lik= e=0A= functionality in apps and their target was to implement whatever was necess= ary=0A= to get OpenSSH to send and receive a file, which seems like a pretty messy = way=0A= to do things.=0A= =0A= For starters I'd use SCP/FTP functionality as a baseline, LS, GET/PUT/DELET= E,=0A= CHDIR/MKDIR/RMDIR/PWD, that's been enough for FTP for decades, it should be= =0A= good enough for standard SFTP functionality.=0A= =0A= Peter.= From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 15 01:23:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D1421F997B for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hiDlYvuLdmhB for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D6621F9ECE for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 8926E14A1CF; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:24 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C653714A1C6 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=opendkim.org header.b=V72knHr0; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com header.b=qhNLpcCX Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id Nj88y3BRt1Iw for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A775E14A1C2 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.153.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6F8JxsJ015210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:20:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1373876412; bh=XNG1PwBE5/xoHKfhx+L1a2JKcZDcy7E3JJG8Tv0NYu8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=V72knHr0EDokNmkfslZG1XsExgq+R1jc76IcaE/sh6jzX1LSRJf99+9QyDcJ/DXQp mc8O4d9/DJFkbwQ2emJ8LAHVO1b0ulhi31birQZnVsfaoujSFFLn3/Dr2caccEKQpM eH+ek33jn3feXUi3GryQ0DqZW3IeZYPFmBQKRznQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1373876412; i=@elandsys.com; bh=XNG1PwBE5/xoHKfhx+L1a2JKcZDcy7E3JJG8Tv0NYu8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=qhNLpcCX/CWHk36rSt4Tfug8GnUoYs0Hle38sqh8YacsQSBAO96n3D8ipSXd/mvgM fog8GlZzsa6Gqig/rSeZf1rpWk7GkSus5GCC7HPwPOA331kszyR9f3RBJPEmxsqH3B awvXLDqYRi34GTXGCETk3fA2TQyYLqClyXVSWWgw= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130715003705.0d08f828@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 00:51:17 -0700 To: Rich Whalen , "denis bider (Bitvise)" From: S Moonesamy Subject: RE: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org In-Reply-To: <33d1f2bbe99843448ee8e993d701b14f@BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.pro d.outlook.com> References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <33d1f2bbe99843448ee8e993d701b14f@BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list At 05:50 12-07-2013, Rich Whalen wrote: >The protocol is more of a file access protocol than a file transfer protocol. >This re-introduction of Version 3 of the protocol has the problem of >not addressing the problem of exchanging text files on dissimilar >systems. Though OpenSSH is a very common implementation there are >other implementations on systems that use a line break mechanism >that is different from Unix/Linux. Many commercial users of SFTP >implementations use it to transfer files between dissimilar systems >and often encounter problems with text files that use different line >break sequences. While the EXTENDED operation allows for vendor >specific extensions, the problem is that they are VENDOR specific, >and a company implementing a SFTP utility does not want to try to >determine which implementation of the protocol they are dealing with >and implement one of a variety of text file access methods. Thanks for the feedback. I'll comment below. At 07:42 12-07-2013, denis bider (Bitvise) wrote: >A fair number of implementations, including ours, implement SFTP >versions 4 and 6, as specified in: > >draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt > >as well as extensions specified in: > >draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt > >Just because one open source implementation chooses to be stuck in >the past - apparently because SFTP version 3 is simplistic, and >offered most of what is needed on their target platform - doesn't >mean it should get to dictate the standard. > >The latest SFTP version is 6. Restarting standardization at 3 >doesn't mean implementations of 4 and 6 are going to go away. It in >fact means that two concurrent SFTP version trees are going to exist >in the future. I think this is a poor decision, and I do not support it. > >Any standardization efforts should continue where these documents left off: > >draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt >draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt > >If OpenSSH chooses to be stuck in the past and implement an older >version of the protocol known as SFTP version 3, then the OpenSSH >project can document the version they implement, but based on one >implementation, that doesn't need to be an internet standard. The draft is not about dictating any Internet standard. I understand that there are a number of implementations that implement different versions of the expired drafts. I am also aware of the file access protocol discussion and the discussion about vendor specific extensions. As I mentioned previously my effort is about documentation what exists. It is not about making implementations of 4 and 6 go away. Regards, S. Moonesamy From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 15 01:25:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 764AC21F9EFC for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cnK2tEjMEjFE for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5064121F9E7D for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id B537C14A1D1; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:27 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D8314A1C8 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=opendkim.org header.b=IpibL2+4; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=elandsys.com header.b=prGh/A0j Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 6WZiosdCsruY for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1709414A1C2 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.153.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6F8JxsN015210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:20:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1373876420; bh=ioJXscS0cghtE6Qqb/6vfCnHH45khnmZ5PUHOdJCdXA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=IpibL2+4zLb2AHxDxntPKa4ThikNMiDIGMk+ky6pZywXiMWj3v7iVDthHupQnRa6Y z5V4gs/b3jZObm9gpEHAehsCCMG5vEeD0PV7Cg/vKtTic4qN8fPII+UVq5ysSopdPY js1nUTKGzgTbpxMv3czba2EQXE1Mkkw2Ph48CgMg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1373876420; i=@elandsys.com; bh=ioJXscS0cghtE6Qqb/6vfCnHH45khnmZ5PUHOdJCdXA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=prGh/A0jev4mS8u5Zun1PRnd4jtCVC7Fe6X4KK/ebarDU5qur6Qn1kLKo9k06nfQF 8WH3MjFtQvlSAfUpzPStQ8xzy/Xg16a97nYj1Ogj15b6L+qE56fka9OpqLVp/eDGc5 SteB2rcUul5VykEr17aO8w+Yg1bFGG48NvOZklcI= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130715005938.0d08f1c0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:14:16 -0700 To: "Mark D. Baushke" From: S Moonesamy Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org In-Reply-To: <89500.1373729652@eng-mail01.juniper.net> References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <201307131259.IAA02778@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <89500.1373729652@eng-mail01.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Hi Mark, At 08:34 13-07-2013, Mark D. Baushke wrote: >Given that draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt had the latest description >of version 6 of the SFTP protocol and none of the drafts ever were >published as an RFC, there is already a fair amount of confusion with >regard to SFTP versions. Yes. >I am actually in favor of some form of the >draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer as an informational RFC to document the >packet types being used by SFTP as a way of getting them put into the >http://www.iana.org/assignments/ssh-paramters/ssh-parameters.xhtml >document so that everyone who implements some fraction of them uses the >same packet type definitions. The initial intended status was Informational. I switched it before I-D submission as it doesn't affect the existing text. >If this means that the SFTP version needs to be at some other version >than 3 or 4 or 6, then so be it. I would look at it in terms of how much effort is required. Choosing between 3, 4, or 6 is itself an effort which might discourage anyone from doing anything. :-) >OpenSSH has said that it implements draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt >and provides a copy of it in http://www.openssh.com/txt/ > >What are the differences between draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13 and >draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 ? See http://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt&url2=http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00.txt Regards, S. Moonesamy From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 15 01:25:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E6A821F9ECE for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:24:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A12MGfuKnTFe for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DFA21F9EF5 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 7316614A1CB; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB29314A1C8 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=opendkim.org header.b=gEPXI805; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=elandsys.com header.b=OTXQNXLh Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id jXWI_41Hdusc for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FF114A1C2 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.153.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6F8JxsL015210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:20:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1373876416; bh=0T76y9daslrOFkjCgNNKUenLjmMJ49jOC3+Q3sA/YO8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=gEPXI8057dJILXxHvNopdO+BDsOLgf4tbjRc3iJD9drEJdMwn5ku9Ugwpt4x5h476 hw6PBcGyL5r/8Le8XsWDdnzQUmoYplBSsCV9DYaiY4ew0Y+xtcrCdueyjXbeh7Fh96 YpnlXMXTYXSLJwu2WL85qba+yPlR8a+5k3PyP/KA= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1373876416; i=@elandsys.com; bh=0T76y9daslrOFkjCgNNKUenLjmMJ49jOC3+Q3sA/YO8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=OTXQNXLhME608U8ykF/mN6TcFWad48ISazdmwJnV9MSER1nnCjY32E61+Y4LeCejV DLB7mFQ/HtzfnoWjhF7hakHygCVfoDnV/XyHhPWoDMrdQRf/KByQwUX+J04LPuZx39 P++DdpIYN53swfB51B33BgCkF9B/geOwnZEDHMlc= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130715005138.0d08f598@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 00:59:34 -0700 To: Mouse From: S Moonesamy Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org In-Reply-To: <201307131256.IAA29783@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712030130.0beda980@elandnews.com> <201307131256.IAA29783@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list At 05:56 13-07-2013, Mouse wrote: >Well...it, combined with the rest of ssh, does; sftp itself doesn't >provide any significant level of security, depending on lower layers >for that. Yes. >My reaction upon looking at the draft is "what's the motivation?". >That is, what does this draft offer beyond the existing spec? (Besides >the version-number regression others have already pointed out.) If it >really is just the things listed in appendix A, it strikes me as not >worth the version-number confusion. I have to start somewhere. I could have choose the latest numbered draft or "version 3". In my opinion it was more practical to choose the latter and put in some effort in completing that work. Regards, S. Moonesamy From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 15 02:01:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCB521F8F4D for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 02:01:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dlARYoCiLZnv for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 02:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F7921F8447 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 01:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id A733114A26E; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:56:49 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 4E2E314A26F; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:56:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99BC614A1AE for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:06:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id sFdAy0YMplne for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:06:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2lp0205.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.205]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC04714A187 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:06:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.255.229.25) by BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.255.229.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.721.16; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:50:54 +0000 Received: from BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.29]) by BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.13.29]) with mapi id 15.00.0721.000; Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:50:54 +0000 From: Rich Whalen To: S Moonesamy CC: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Subject: RE: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Topic: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Index: AQHOfvvlDjOWwhAhnkyKMXbUG4buxJlg/Cug Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:50:53 +0000 Message-ID: <33d1f2bbe99843448ee8e993d701b14f@BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.42.95.201] x-forefront-prvs: 0905A6B2C7 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(24454002)(13464003)(377424004)(199002)(377454003)(189002)(51856001)(54356001)(83072001)(53806001)(56816003)(81342001)(59766001)(74876001)(74366001)(76482001)(77982001)(76796001)(46102001)(4396001)(80022001)(54316002)(76576001)(16406001)(76786001)(74706001)(77096001)(56776001)(81542001)(47446002)(66066001)(74316001)(63696002)(50986001)(49866001)(79102001)(74662001)(47736001)(74502001)(31966008)(33646001)(47976001)(69226001)(217423001)(65816001)(24736002);DIR:OUT;SFP:;SCL:1;SRVR:BL2PR08MB004;H:BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com;CLIP:192.42.95.201;RD:InfoNoRecords;A:1;MX:1;LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: process.com Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list The protocol is more of a file access protocol than a file transfer protoco= l. This re-introduction of Version 3 of the protocol has the problem of not ad= dressing the problem of exchanging text files on dissimilar systems. Though= OpenSSH is a very common implementation there are other implementations on= systems that use a line break mechanism that is different from Unix/Linux.= Many commercial users of SFTP implementations use it to transfer files be= tween dissimilar systems and often encounter problems with text files that = use different line break sequences. While the EXTENDED operation allows for= vendor specific extensions, the problem is that they are VENDOR specific, = and a company implementing a SFTP utility does not want to try to determine= which implementation of the protocol they are dealing with and implement o= ne of a variety of text file access methods. Richard Whalen -----Original Message----- From: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org [mailto:ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org] On Behal= f Of S Moonesamy Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 8:19 AM To: Peter Gutmann Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Hi Peter, At 04:37 12-07-2013, Peter Gutmann wrote: >Some background information on this decision would be useful, for example = why >restart work on it now, and why use version 3 of the protocol as the basel= ine? There was a short discussion a few months ago about Section 6.1 of an=20 expired SFTP drafts. I used Version 3 as the baseline as that is=20 the version which OpenSSH implemented. In my opinion it would be=20 easier to document Version 3 as an IETF specification instead of=20 trying to pursue the previous efforts. Regards, S. Moonesamy=20 From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 15 02:29:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FC121F9E93 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 02:29:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X8NvCruJ695Z for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 02:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B59C21F9EE9 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 02:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id D0E5314A24E; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:29:39 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A875D14A248 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:29:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id V0XtF_IV85Yh for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:29:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailbackend.panix.com (mailbackend.panix.com [166.84.1.89]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F6A14A239 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:29:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.15.5] (unknown [50.9.9.201]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACB628755; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 05:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51E3C0FE.7070806@panix.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 04:29:34 -0500 From: Albert Lunde User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rich Whalen CC: S Moonesamy , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <33d1f2bbe99843448ee8e993d701b14f@BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <33d1f2bbe99843448ee8e993d701b14f@BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list > There was a short discussion a few months ago about Section 6.1 of an > expired SFTP drafts. I used Version 3 as the baseline as that is > the version which OpenSSH implemented. In my opinion it would be > easier to document Version 3 as an IETF specification instead of > trying to pursue the previous efforts. Van Dyke software seems to have implemented features from the later SFTP drafts in their products. I have used them, and can say that they are useful in getting a more faithful transfer of files between Windows systems. From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 15 06:09:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E308C21E804C for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:09:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x5u6A1HQRkzD for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5B221F9F5E for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 52C4314A179; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:09:01 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C97314A16C for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id zLi_3WVmbGy6 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (tx2ehsobe003.messaging.microsoft.com [65.55.88.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33FA414A16B for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail211-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.229) by TX2EHSOBE001.bigfish.com (10.9.40.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:56 +0000 Received: from mail211-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail211-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE06040554; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.224.53;KIP:(null);UIP:(null);IPV:NLI;H:P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net;RD:none;EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: 5 X-BigFish: VPS5(z54eehzdbb0idbf2izz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6h1082kzz1d7338h17326ah1d68dehz2fh2a8h668h839hf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh12e5h137ah139eh13b6h1441h14ddh1504h1537h162dh1631h1758h1898h18e1h1946h19b5h1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1de2h1dfeh1dffh1e23h1155h) Received-SPF: pass (mail211-tx2: domain of juniper.net designates 66.129.224.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.129.224.53; envelope-from=mdb@juniper.net; helo=P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ;-HQ.jnpr.net ; Received: from mail211-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail211-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 137389370225361_21578; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS021.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.248]) by mail211-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027B444004D; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (66.129.224.53) by TX2EHSMHS021.bigfish.com (10.9.99.121) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:08:21 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:08:20 -0700 Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (eng-mail01.juniper.net [172.17.28.114]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id r6FD8JL61721; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:08:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mdb@juniper.net) Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eng-mail01.juniper.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7F01144F; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:08:19 -0700 (PDT) To: S Moonesamy , Rich Whalen , Albert Lunde , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" CC: Richard Kettlewell Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 In-Reply-To: <51E3C0FE.7070806@panix.com> References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <33d1f2bbe99843448ee8e993d701b14f@BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <51E3C0FE.7070806@panix.com> Comments: In-reply-to: Albert Lunde message dated "Mon, 15 Jul 2013 04:29:34 -0500." From: "Mark D. Baushke" X-Phone: +1 408 745-2952 (Office) X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.2; GNU Emacs 22.1.1 X-Face: #8D_6URD2G%vC.hzU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Hi Folks, [+cc Richard Kettlewell (see the archives of ietf-ssh with this Subject: thread for more information)] There seems to be a fairly good chart given in http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/sftp/sftpversions.html and http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/sftp/sftpimpls.html writted by Richard Kettlewell who also appears to have a drop-in "Green End SFTP Server" implementation documented in http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/sftpserver/ I am not sure of the accuracy of the data provided, but it may be useful for SFTP implementers to check it out. It does suggest that draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 may want to pick up more definitions as to names and attributes than it presently provides. Enjoy! -- Mark From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 15 12:21:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3042421E8112 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:21:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cvFJlS5T-Khc for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033A021E80C6 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 769FE14A156; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:20:54 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3576814A150 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:20:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 1nT45eSdnwHw for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:20:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68D2214A14F for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:20:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [128.2.193.239] (minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu [128.2.193.239]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id r6FHd5rF018743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1373909945.23365.288.camel@minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Mouse Cc: jhutz@cmu.edu, ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:39:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201307131256.IAA29783@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712030130.0beda980@elandnews.com> <201307131256.IAA29783@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.3-0ubuntu6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On Sat, 2013-07-13 at 08:56 -0400, Mouse wrote: > > The SSH File Transfer Protocol provides secure file transfer > > functionality over any reliable data stream. > > Well...it, combined with the rest of ssh, does; sftp itself doesn't > provide any significant level of security, depending on lower layers > for that. Yeah, the language is purely written. As I recall, the intended meaning is that SFTP can be run over _any_ data stream; it doesn't have to be an SSH channel. From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sun Jul 21 19:16:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5392221F86BE for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2013 19:16:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AbbLzmxIveKo for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2013 19:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BB421F841E for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2013 19:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 7945614A1C5; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 02:16:32 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C9F14A1C3 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 02:16:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id QCD_lzGf6gtl for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 02:16:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from newmailhub.uq.edu.au (mailhub2.soe.uq.edu.au [130.102.132.209]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A3414A1B0 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 02:16:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp2.soe.uq.edu.au (smtp2.soe.uq.edu.au [10.138.113.41]) by newmailhub.uq.edu.au (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6M18N7Z022111; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:08:23 +1000 Received: from mailhub.eait.uq.edu.au (taxus.eait.uq.edu.au [130.102.79.56]) by smtp2.soe.uq.edu.au (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6M18NiG010660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:08:23 +1000 Received: from natsu.mindrot.org (natsu.mindrot.org [130.102.96.2]) by mailhub.eait.uq.edu.au (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r6M18MGS021130; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:08:22 +1000 (EST) Received: by natsu.mindrot.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3204A1FBCC; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:08:22 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by natsu.mindrot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EBC1FBAD; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:08:22 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:08:21 +1000 (EST) From: Damien Miller To: Peter Gutmann cc: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" , "mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG" Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470D8FC@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470D8FC@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> User-Agent: Alpine 2.03 (BSO 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.73 on UQ Mailhub X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.73 on 130.102.79.56 X-UQ-FilterTime: 1374455304 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On Sun, 14 Jul 2013, Peter Gutmann wrote: > For starters I'd use SCP/FTP functionality as a baseline, LS, GET/PUT/DELETE, > CHDIR/MKDIR/RMDIR/PWD, that's been enough for FTP for decades, it should be > good enough for standard SFTP functionality. Right, and that is basically what the -02 draft provides. Later versions ran off a cliff trying to support every possible FS feature for every possible OS, which is why OpenSSH never bothered with them. -d From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 22 09:48:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1FF11E80DE for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:48:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HbejUjszL-Lv for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887CB21F9E28 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 2FCDC14A236; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:45:17 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B8614A214 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:45:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 0VDU7Y6caIEy for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:45:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vandyke.com (mail.vandyke.com [216.184.10.33]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD23B14A114 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:45:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.62] (HELO cw01.nm.cotsware.com) by vandyke.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 13143649; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:38:42 -0600 Message-ID: <51ED606B.1030802@vandyke.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:40:11 -0600 From: Joseph Galbriath User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "denis bider (Bitvise)" CC: Peter Gutmann , S Moonesamy , ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On 2013/07/12 8:42, denis bider (Bitvise) wrote: > A fair number of implementations, including ours, implement SFTP > versions 4 and 6, as specified in: > > draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt > > as well as extensions specified in: > > draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt > > Just because one open source implementation chooses to be stuck in the > past - apparently because SFTP version 3 is simplistic, and offered most > of what is needed on their target platform - doesn't mean it should get > to dictate the standard. I did find openssh's reluctance to look beyond the posix filesystem world somewhat frustrating. I will admit that the drafts grew much larger than I wanted, but we did make efforts to make sure implementations didn't have to implement things that didn't want or could not support. > The latest SFTP version is 6. Restarting standardization at 3 doesn't > mean implementations of 4 and 6 are going to go away. It in fact means > that two concurrent SFTP version trees are going to exist in the future. > I think this is a poor decision, and I do not support it. > > Any standardization efforts should continue where these documents left off: > > draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13.txt > draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00.txt > > If OpenSSH chooses to be stuck in the past and implement an older > version of the protocol known as SFTP version 3, then the OpenSSH > project can document the version they implement, but based on one > implementation, that doesn't need to be an internet standard. I agree with this. Thanks, Joseph > -----Original Message----- From: S Moonesamy > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 06:18 > To: Peter Gutmann > Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org > Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 > > Hi Peter, > At 04:37 12-07-2013, Peter Gutmann wrote: >> Some background information on this decision would be useful, for >> example why >> restart work on it now, and why use version 3 of the protocol as the >> baseline? > > There was a short discussion a few months ago about Section 6.1 of an > expired SFTP drafts. I used Version 3 as the baseline as that is > the version which OpenSSH implemented. In my opinion it would be > easier to document Version 3 as an IETF specification instead of > trying to pursue the previous efforts. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 22 10:06:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2120F21F96A8 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:06:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LUMckpmUwZfd for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C216B11E8129 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 799D414A226; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:40:31 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1845914A220 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:40:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 3PFX7SQvBLTf for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:40:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vandyke.com (mail.vandyke.com [216.184.10.33]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B34614A1D9 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:40:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.62] (HELO cw01.nm.cotsware.com) by vandyke.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 13143312; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:38:53 -0600 Message-ID: <51ED5266.1080206@vandyke.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:40:22 -0600 From: Joseph Galbriath User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mark D. Baushke" CC: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <201307131259.IAA02778@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <89500.1373729652@eng-mail01.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <89500.1373729652@eng-mail01.juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On 2013/07/13 9:34, Mark D. Baushke wrote: > [...] > This one lives here: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-galb-filexfer-extensions-00 > > last updated 2005-10-05. http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-extensions-00.txt is more up-to-date (if only slightly) and includes several additional extensions. (Published: January 18, 2006) > [...] > What are the differences between draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13 and > draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 ? > > Well, packet 20 is not listed in the draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-13, but > is named SSH_FXP_SYMLINK in moonesamy. The problem here is that OpenSSH implemented packet 20 backwards from the spec (swapped target and source file). Others implement the spec correctly. And because of backwards compatibility, no one wanted to change. So I dropped packet 20 as basically unimplementable and introduced SSH_FXP_LINK to replace it (and also supported hard links at the same time). > Also moonesamy does not define packets 21 (SSH_FXP_LINK, 22 > (SSH_FXP_BLOCK), 23 (SSH_FXP_UNBLOCK). > > So, did anyone ever implement packet types 21, 22, and 23? > If so, what SFTP version did you call it and what do they do? Yes; we've implemented all three in our products. Thanks, Joseph From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 22 10:06:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212A711E81AD for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KgfXWLDILFw5 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C212711E811E for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 839BE14A144; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:43:35 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9189E14A114 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:43:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 6UfJD6gcSzay for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:43:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vandyke.com (mail.vandyke.com [216.184.10.33]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D4414A0A9 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:43:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.62] (HELO cw01.nm.cotsware.com) by vandyke.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 13143431; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:01:58 -0600 Message-ID: <51ED57CF.8090009@vandyke.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:03:27 -0600 From: Joseph Galbriath User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mouse CC: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130712030130.0beda980@elandnews.com> <201307131256.IAA29783@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> In-Reply-To: <201307131256.IAA29783@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On 2013/07/13 6:56, Mouse wrote: >> The SSH File Transfer Protocol provides secure file transfer >> functionality over any reliable data stream. > > Well...it, combined with the rest of ssh, does; sftp itself doesn't > provide any significant level of security, depending on lower layers > for that. > > But, really, it provides a lot more than file transfer; it's really a > remote filesystem access protocol, misnamed as a file transfer > protocol. If you really want a file transfer protocol, I'd suggest > using a slight mutation of FTP (using ssh channels rather than TCP > connections). But, apparently, people prefer a remote filesystem > access protocol, even a misnamed one. Funny we should arrive here. That was one of the things VanDyke was considering in the time frame between SFTP advent as a product and the publishing of the initial draft. We may have even brought it up in an ietf meeting. From a technical view point, this is still somewhat interesting to me; one of the difficulties with SFTP (as speced from draft 0 onwards) is the request/response nature of moving data. A protocol (like FTP) that just said "send me the whole file as fast as you can" would probably be a lot harder to mess up performance wise than SFTP, where it is necessary to issue multiple overlapping read requests with carefully tuned max-packet, read size, and channel window in order to get reasonably good performance. Thanks, Joseph From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 22 10:06:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809A411E81A9 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:06:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nj6fiZbD6nmJ for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCAD11E812A for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 6A1EA14A22D; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:41:18 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976D514A220 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:41:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id viU09s2TPHLx for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:41:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vandyke.com (mail.vandyke.com [216.184.10.33]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E512B14A1D9 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:41:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.62] (HELO cw01.nm.cotsware.com) by vandyke.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 13143402; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:54:45 -0600 Message-ID: <51ED561D.4010407@vandyke.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:56:13 -0600 From: Joseph Galbriath User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mark D. Baushke" CC: S Moonesamy , Rich Whalen , Albert Lunde , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" , Richard Kettlewell Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <33d1f2bbe99843448ee8e993d701b14f@BL2PR08MB004.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <51E3C0FE.7070806@panix.com> <2900.1373893699@eng-mail01.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <2900.1373893699@eng-mail01.juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On 2013/07/15 7:08, Mark D. Baushke wrote: > Hi Folks, > > [+cc Richard Kettlewell (see the archives of ietf-ssh > with this Subject: thread for more information)] > > There seems to be a fairly good chart given in > > http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/sftp/sftpversions.html This is a pretty nice summation of the various sftp protocol versions. The extensions mentioned as "Defined in draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-09.txt but for some reason not later versions" were moved from the main filexfer draft to the extensions draft to reduce the size of the main draft and make it clear that it wasn't necessary to implement them to have a conforming implementation. (Maybe we should of have done this with more features, like the block/unblock stuff as well.) I just posted a link to that draft in another part of this thread, but here it is again: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-extensions/ Thanks, Joseph From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 22 11:38:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607CA11E8113 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5GYWo4AQ78BX for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA99F11E8116 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 7851B14A11C; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:37:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A7314A11B for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:37:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=opendkim.org header.b=eZ5hWAWb; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com header.b=UiUHIYug Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id T1txY6a9mpU9 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:37:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7CD14A10F for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:37:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.150.27]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6MIbJbk021581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:37:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1374518259; bh=7Q0iN0rgXvJZzFldepDOd7mTqLnAa58/fgkS/zi9Rdk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=eZ5hWAWb98Z2O3dDdN8uD8xV9rBKvIvDOy6vsHB3Xx50FfbYmKwqmvp18CBMokDdp M4182YjsqDnf4qki6ay0JUyGtyPhqXI2koOkMR88ZMTYtRBt3xla4/46nYlPiDQ0B0 LlPLiKWAKzE+AVEQvrpfMIefpuYut+PZmyfumKcI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1374518259; i=@elandsys.com; bh=7Q0iN0rgXvJZzFldepDOd7mTqLnAa58/fgkS/zi9Rdk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=UiUHIYugIzqs1em1VK4izzH83P6vbStKHRT2MIVjul8aKHW1NEV7BE9NZ/8p+osm1 c91v33UJOFKA7a42mGtrFXY+Did7dhkssqpT3r3k8pSh5EO+aDW8HftmGxC8I3J9SE GrurYcGJ4iKHEpw5V9qIjJVkN2gTKPPAasvLHyIE= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130722104307.0be85508@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:48:24 -0700 To: Joseph Galbriath From: S Moonesamy Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org, "Mark D. Baushke" In-Reply-To: <51ED5266.1080206@vandyke.com> References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> <201307131259.IAA02778@Chip.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <89500.1373729652@eng-mail01.juniper.net> <51ED5266.1080206@vandyke.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Hi Joseph, At 08:40 22-07-2013, Joseph Galbriath wrote: >The problem here is that OpenSSH implemented packet 20 backwards from >the spec (swapped target and source file). Others implement the spec >correctly. And because of backwards compatibility, no one wanted to >change. > >So I dropped packet 20 as basically unimplementable and introduced >SSH_FXP_LINK to replace it (and also supported hard links at the >same time). An alternative is to document the OpenSSH case and mention that it can cause an interoperability issue. Regards, S. Moonesamy From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 22 18:02:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8243811E81CB for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:02:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ClMcKRTlsSK8 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C59811E81C8 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 9792314A0BE; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:02:07 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E1214A0B0 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:02:05 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Authentication-Results: mail.NetBSD.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=auckland.ac.nz Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 5YUUP9D4zViU for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:02:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx2.auckland.ac.nz (mx2.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.125.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB99514A0AF for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:02:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=auckland.ac.nz; i=@auckland.ac.nz; q=dns/txt; s=uoa; t=1374541325; x=1406077325; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Q+XZkOFUCENvkAE7xCMHhdscb+jSnUO6efMU+mZK2oQ=; b=MfPHbtVt/FuHoeWiI9SPIP0G8vneFFXdkiiNo2vW0fps5Fx+UBbmXPhW 1hAMCu9i1Vi0pq82ZnvrsuJElwnLSHrryMp+zTLd+W3wU6RsTZxsEezn8 sX/ELOr9T2vCnbkZc5CEmzzOG4ChfhiF6X0aDhSeiU9oMy8yIDo5l6nB2 s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,723,1367928000"; d="scan'208";a="200807223" X-Ironport-HAT: MAIL-SERVERS - $RELAYED X-Ironport-Source: 130.216.4.112 - Outgoing - Outgoing Received: from uxchange10-fe1.uoa.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.112]) by mx2-int.auckland.ac.nz with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 23 Jul 2013 13:01:55 +1200 Received: from UXCN10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([169.254.10.253]) by uxchange10-fe1.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.112]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:01:55 +1200 From: Peter Gutmann To: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Topic: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 Thread-Index: Ac6HQDlxTUsInSi5QC28ln6rA0LlTQ== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:01:55 +0000 Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73447119F7@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.216.158.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Damien Miller writes:=0A= =0A= >I think "the version of sftp that you can actually use on the Internet" wo= uld=0A= >make a fine informational RFC.=0A= =0A= +1. Although I'd still like to see a minimal-interoperability profile opti= on=0A= along the lines of "what scp/FTP does" for the many implementations who jus= t=0A= want a basic "move a file from A to B". If it could implement Josephs "sen= d=0A= me the whole file as fast as you can" (again a la scp/FTP) that'd be perfec= t.=0A= The current "Whatever's necessary to get OpenSSH to accept this file" reall= y=0A= isn't workable as a "spec".=0A= =0A= Peter.=0A= From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jul 22 18:10:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306EF11E81D1 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:10:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bq2diKXAoo4H for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B961C11E81CD for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 2ACAC14A0FD; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C945F14A0F7 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:10:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at NetBSD.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.NetBSD.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id GoZm911C60wB for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:10:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from newmailhub.uq.edu.au (mailhub1.soe.uq.edu.au [130.102.132.208]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0DDE14A0F3 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 01:10:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp1.soe.uq.edu.au (smtp1.soe.uq.edu.au [10.138.113.40]) by newmailhub.uq.edu.au (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6N05AxV024307; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:05:10 +1000 Received: from mailhub.eait.uq.edu.au (taxus.eait.uq.edu.au [130.102.79.56]) by smtp1.soe.uq.edu.au (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6N05At0019445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:05:10 +1000 Received: from natsu.mindrot.org (natsu.mindrot.org [130.102.96.2]) by mailhub.eait.uq.edu.au (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r6N058fx030443; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:05:09 +1000 (EST) Received: by natsu.mindrot.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 39ECE1FBCC; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:05:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by natsu.mindrot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F201FBAD; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:05:08 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:05:08 +1000 (EST) From: Damien Miller To: "denis bider (Bitvise)" cc: Peter Gutmann , S Moonesamy , ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: SSH File Transfer Protocol - draft-moonesamy-secsh-filexfer-00 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C734470C9DE@uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <6.2.5.6.2.20130712050150.0cd0f7e8@elandnews.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.03 (BSO 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.73 on UQ Mailhub X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.73 on 130.102.79.56 X-UQ-FilterTime: 1374537911 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On Fri, 12 Jul 2013, denis bider (Bitvise) wrote: > If OpenSSH chooses to be stuck in the past and implement an older version of > the protocol known as SFTP version 3, then the OpenSSH project can document > the version they implement, but based on one implementation, that doesn't need > to be an internet standard. I think "the version of sftp that you can actually use on the Internet" would make a fine informational RFC. -d From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Tue Jul 30 07:04:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CCF21F9FDE for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:04:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8h297AEyrjT7 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:7::25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D7611E8211 for ; 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Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:33:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail193-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail193-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1375191217246895_27566; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:33:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS011.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.229]) by mail193-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A3B4004B; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:33:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.197) by CO1EHSMHS011.bigfish.com (10.243.66.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:33:36 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0511MB407.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.5.59]) by CH1PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.159.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0341.000; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:33:34 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" , "saag@ietf.org" Subject: FW: [Netconf] Agenda for the NETCONF meeting Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Agenda for the NETCONF meeting Thread-Index: AQHOjOgO8bV7r0tm9ECfSnqOydvy9pl9EOwAgABJjoA= Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:33:33 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.255.159.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%NETBSD.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list For those interested in the Reverse SSH discussion, please note that it's moved to the 16:20-17:20 slot Thanks, Kent On 7/30/13 1:10 PM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" wrote: >Dear Netconf WG, > >please be aware that the agenda for the NETCONF session has changed (see >below). > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-87-netconf > >Kent, Sean: Please forward to saag wg and ssh people. > >Cheers,=20 >Mehmet=20 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On >>Behalf Of ext >> Benoit Claise >> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 7:44 AM >> To: netconf-chairs@tools.ietf.org >> Cc: NETCONF; sec-ads@tools.ietf.org >> Subject: [Netconf] Agenda for the NETCONF meeting >>=20 >> Dear all, >>=20 >> Sean Turner, one of the security ADs, will be joining our NETCONF >> meeting for the reverse SSH discussion. >> Would it be possible to change the agenda, and discuss the Reverse >> Secure Shell (Reverse SSH) - K. Watsen (30 min.) after 16h20? >> He is not available before. >>=20 >> Regards, Benoit >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >_______________________________________________ >Netconf mailing list >Netconf@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >