From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Fri Dec 9 23:06:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D501298A1 for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 23:06:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7yWhA6KKXOa for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 23:05:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48DA812988D for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 23:05:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id D772B85602; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:05:57 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 859D6855FD; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:05:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6DD855CF for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 04:38:21 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id B-1QL0pV3itK for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 04:38:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0BDE8556C for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 04:38:20 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: c6180641-e73ff70000000a0b-53-584b19aeb2d9 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DF.3A.02571.EA91B485; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 21:53:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 21:53:11 -0500 From: Daniel Migault To: "Mark D. Baushke" CC: "ietf-ssh@netbsd.org" Subject: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Topic: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Index: AdJSkFcrezBUbqPTQY2bum9e5UMqZg== Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 02:53:10 +0000 Message-ID: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EFeusaamb107erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn+5GSe8IgzNrbCw+3HvMZtF15zqb A5PH9aar7B4LH/YwBjBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGWsfr6ZqWC3W0XLxLtsDYyr7bsYOTkkBEwk Np89w9rFyMUhJLCeUWLO2RksEM4yRolH69exgFSxCRhJtB3qZ+9i5OAQEVCXWPkwESTMLKAv MWfaZyYQW1jAVGLDyndsILaIgJXE/P4vLBC2nsT3xh2MIDaLgKrEqa2dYHFeAV+JOzf+gfUy CohJfD+1hgliprjErSfzmSCOE5BYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T9WCFtJ4uPv+ewQ9fkSJ+bfh5opKHFy 5hOWCYxCs5CMmoWkbBaSMoi4jsSC3Z/YIGxtiWULXzPD2GcOPGZCFl/AyL6KkaO0uCAnN93I cBMjMBqOSbA57mDc2+t5iFGAg1GJh3dDn1eEEGtiWXFl7iFGCQ5mJRFe32zvCCHelMTKqtSi /Pii0pzU4kOM0hwsSuK810PuhwsJpCeWpGanphakFsFkmTg4pRoYmaNl7MteMD9QnvpLzfBo oIWSksH+rhzdFT8UfYsi98wtEoqIO2CY0HbKOdJEQlP6GOuCe5rP3Dt2hSRNOP6++OCftWf8 WSNYzp5sW9Tet/3AgR/aVzWPp4S0xd66urjwkb9tcuVxHiWTKs5L5pt65j3/WDqr1iIh6q38 3Tv7onqNlqW6aFcpsRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAi00upIICAAA= Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list --_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EFeusaamb107erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mark, We are looking at which reference to UTF8 we should mention into the SSH UT= F8 terminal mode. [1] mentions that RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that a reference to = ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful. Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC 10646:2014 = ? The question is whether we should have one reference or both in the draft. = Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed in ISO/IEC 10646:2014, I am inc= line to have only RFC3629. Is that something that sounds reasonable to ever= yone ? Yours, Daniel [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/secsh/current/msg01242.html [Ericsson] DANIEL MIGAULT Researcher Research Ericsson 8500 Boulevard Decarie H4P 2N2 Montreal, Canada Phone +1 514 345 7900 46628 Mobile +1 514 452 2160 daniel.migault@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com [http://www.ericsson.com/current_campaign] Legal entity: Ericsson Canada Inc., registered office in Montreal. This Com= munication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on the basis of = the terms set out at www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer --_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EFeusaamb107erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= Hi Mark,

=  

= We are looking at which reference to UTF8 we should mention into the SSH UT= F8 terminal mode.

=  

[1] mentions that  RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that a ref=
erence to ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful.

=  

= Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC 10646:2014 = ?

=  

= The question is whether we should have one reference or both in the draft. = Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed in ISO/IEC 10646:2014, I a= m incline to have only RFC3629. Is that something that sounds reasonable to everyone ?  

=  

= Yours,

= Daniel

=  

= [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/secsh/current/msg01242.html<= /o:p>

 

 

3D"Ericsson"

DANIEL MIGAULT
Researcher
Research


Ericsson
8500 Boulevard Decarie
H4P 2N2 Montreal, Canada
Phone +1 514 345 7900 46628
Mobile +1 514 452 2160
daniel.migault@ericsson.com
www.ericsson.com



3D"http://www.eric=

 

Legal entity: Ericsson Canada Inc., regi= stered office in Montreal. This Communication is Confidential. We only send= and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer

--_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EFeusaamb107erics_-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Dec 10 08:10:04 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B8B12945D for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:10:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=junipernetworks.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WIHMTc7Utu4K for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9095B1293FB for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id E0BE8855C8; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 16:10:00 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A7855B7 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 16:09:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=junipernetworks.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id orVVdWeE77L1 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 16:09:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from NAM01-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2nam01on0715.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe42::715]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83D085586 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 16:09:54 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=junipernetworks.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-juniper-net; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=+dVV/8djaHQR9HVy20diDBmUvMT5D5t4iXPYFUEyi2A=; b=Pezqk1HEPXuqGfkYZIMsQBIJrASQRQlw8cIhNSkeFVtAQ5UdAqmt8n1aiedu9EPkWiDPrXpfmELT/xDrsi7t60vEDNB050Oo6YFXBHWz/uMmZR5J3c7IVT9DLCOAMPyUc6HwwNvnev/Urtnshke2scnJIFR5IVPRXiFQ5GvcnhQ= Received: from BY1PR0501CA0010.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.162.139.20) by SN2PR05MB2734.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.167.19.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.789.5; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 16:09:52 +0000 Received: from BL2FFO11FD043.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c09::122) by BY1PR0501CA0010.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:4821::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.789.5 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 16:09:52 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.18) smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; ericsson.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ericsson.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.18 as permitted sender) Received: from p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.239.18) by BL2FFO11FD043.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.173.161.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA_P384) id 15.1.761.6 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 16:09:51 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:;UpperCasedChecksum:;SizeAsReceived:1248;Count:16 Received: from p-mailhub01.juniper.net (10.160.2.17) by p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:09:50 -0800 Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (eng-mail01.juniper.net [172.17.28.114]) by p-mailhub01.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id uBAG9nto032420; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:09:49 -0800 (envelope-from mdb@juniper.net) Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eng-mail01.juniper.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F281144E; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:09:49 -0800 (PST) To: Daniel Migault CC: "ietf-ssh@netbsd.org" Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Comments: In-reply-to: Daniel Migault message dated "Sat, 10 Dec 2016 02:53:10 +0000." 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Baushke" Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:09:49 -0800 Message-ID: <57703.1481386189@eng-mail01.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-IncomingHeaderCount: 16 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.18;IPV:NLI;CTRY:US;EFV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(39450400003)(39840400002)(39860400002)(39410400002)(39850400002)(2980300002)(199003)(189002)(229853002)(53416004)(47776003)(106466001)(50466002)(117636001)(48376002)(38730400001)(7846003)(76506005)(6392003)(105596002)(77096006)(92566002)(8676002)(97736004)(81166006)(189998001)(81156014)(5003940100001)(6916009)(110136003)(50986999)(54356999)(4326007)(76176999)(2950100002)(356003)(68736007)(2810700001)(2906002)(7696004)(305945005)(69596002)(5660300001)(86362001)(7126002)(8936002)(626004)(42262002);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;SCL:1;SRVR:SN2PR05MB2734;H:p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net;FPR:;SPF:SoftFail;PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent;A:1;MX:1;LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1;BL2FFO11FD043;1: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 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 534477c6-40f3-42d0-e308-08d42116f906 X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:SN2PR05MB2734; 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Okay. > [1] mentions that RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that a reference > to ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful. > > Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC > 10646:2014 ? Section 5 of RFC 3629 does a pretty good job of pointing out that the standards are alive. I have not seen large disruption in the definition. I do think that the new line breaking algorithm in [UNICODE9.0.0] UAX#14 are relevant to the SSH work. UTS#39, Unicode Security Mechanisms, may also be relevant to SSH. RFC 3629 has a normative reference of [UNICODE] The Unicode Consortium, "The Unicode Standard -- Version 4.0", defined by The Unicode Standard, Version 4.0 (Boston, MA, Addison-Wesley, 2003. ISBN 0-321-18578-1), April 2003, . and what I am suggesting is that an informative reference to the living standard may be desirable: [UNICODE] The Unicode Consortium. The Unicode Standard. I guess an alternative would be to add an informative referene to [UNICODE9.0] The Unicode Consortium. The Unicode Standard, Version 9.0.0, (Mountain View, CA: The Unicode Consortium, 2016. ISBN 978-1-936213-13-9 which is a bit newer than the UNICODE 4.0.0 URL used in RFC 3629. > The question is whether we should have one reference or both in the > draft. Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed in ISO/IEC > 10646:2014, I am incline to have only RFC3629. Is that something that > sounds reasonable to everyone ? It does sound reasonable, but it may also imply that implmentors need to find [UNICODE] resources on their own and may more likely point to older and more obsolete stanards than is desirable. > Yours, > Daniel > > [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/secsh/current/msg01242.html This is just my personal opinion. I have no strong objections to the current draft as written. -- Mark From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Dec 10 22:49:03 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B4C12957F for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 22:49:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZxR9AJ4CIQsH for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 22:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF30312956C for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 22:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id F27F78556E; Sun, 11 Dec 2016 06:49:00 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id AE54984CEF; Sun, 11 Dec 2016 06:49:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D2F85590 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:59:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id UkAWltjkwoBk for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:59:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG [98.124.61.89]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFFA84CE5 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:59:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17917; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:59:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:59:28 -0500 (EST) From: Mouse Message-Id: <201612101259.HAA17917@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. X-Message-Flag: Microsoft: the company who gave us the botnet zombies. X-Composition-Start-Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:43:22 -0500 (EST) To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list > We are looking at which reference to UTF8 we should mention into the > SSH UTF8 terminal mode. > [some Web URL] mentions that RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that > a reference to ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful. > Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC > 10646:2014 ? > The question is whether we should have one reference or both in the > draft. Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed in ISO/IEC > 10646:2014, I am incline to have only RFC3629. Is that something that > sounds reasonable to everyone ? My opinion - probably worth about what you paid for it - is that the RFC is a much better reference. This is for entirely non-technical reasons. The ISO believes pay-to-play is reasonable for standards, and, while 10646:2014 seems to be one they make an exception for, (a) getting it requires a _lot_ more hoop-jumping than an RFCs, (b) getting it requires agreeing to what for most of the world is foreign legal jurisdiction, (c) they say what you'd get is a "single-user, non-revisable Adobe Acrobat® PDF file", which means either it's DRMed or they're stupid enough to think no other PDF-handling software than Adobe's exists (I don't know which; between the jurisdictional issue, the difficulty of jumping through their hoops, and my lack of any real need for it, I haven't fetched it), and (d) their copyright terms are ridiculously onerous for something supposedly "freely available" - for example, you are prohibited from storing it on a filesystem that gets backed up, and you are permitted only one printed copy. > This Communication is Confidential. Then you might want to avoid sending it to a public, publicly archived, mailing list. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Dec 10 22:49:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32AD712956C for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 22:49:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.195 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.195 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 49p95eloD0oh for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 22:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8041112957F for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 22:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 32B6C855FD; Sun, 11 Dec 2016 06:49:39 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id CDD98855A4; Sun, 11 Dec 2016 06:49:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F4885586 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 15:06:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id pb3Qv4h1vnbZ for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 15:06:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg0-x230.google.com (mail-pg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78EE584CEE for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 15:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-x230.google.com with SMTP id x23so18514033pgx.1 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:06:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timeheart.net; s=mail; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=pCdFlDHPCHzR+G7cafb/NfrpukibA2s/GbK0uaOorzg=; b=ZVTdJM2mAZ2EN3LjyYWXdWiP5Tvznn5JS94sXAgBiEe/Rh2Se2jeuIc+IQaCAegdbT CE+12eSz6UuOgdAhxtuDPPDmtB2q0lBBRetQ8lE8wWT9sRwU3NQjQB0/zxqeGR9WxBb2 gwATyF16kw8FSRtsrZRgLfEvv/OwAPmOLCNNA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=pCdFlDHPCHzR+G7cafb/NfrpukibA2s/GbK0uaOorzg=; b=KDyARHrW7/9vrFjSGBlBZ8Xqfv+gNIgkmARe3xJeVZJzunhuv7TBDJ1bdGKGGh2CrV NB8rhKmlCu3tAJWBtM6+l5kMbW97NQSgZIhTQAHULhxQTJDRWbmVdPQ6fpd3RWZzz4pz N1XdhKGPuDBT5VoNQSko001d+KnOl89GRtAFlf+7tbT1VeVZ4VkArY65RhTIOH0Gg5WD AR+xBy9nzTB7ox46y+o1VOxxIhXHmrRTDxc8/qchiURNxs+2g6ZNUo1vu2kZBZgT302M LyIbtoLwRRCGRGbNUWrGdqAkqvwuUgmVPNNtYzsquKZKpRs6dvlqj25MaV/eCZ3pgxu6 OE1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC00JdRNCUzp5xqsEbXizP7VwZAgcpBs3Qg9aWrzbv2jY5MCVZDZoskW3np0pFlUGdg== X-Received: by 10.98.192.148 with SMTP id g20mr88086771pfk.36.1481382364155; Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4282:2200:cfa:5497:d692:7eeb? ([2601:647:4282:2200:cfa:5497:d692:7eeb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p14sm32618911pfl.74.2016.12.10.07.06.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:06:02 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Frederick Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2784F5CC-49C1-4E0E-8229-945DFA91F089" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:06:00 -0800 In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Cc: "Mark D. Baushke" , "ietf-ssh@netbsd.org" To: Daniel Migault References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list --Apple-Mail=_2784F5CC-49C1-4E0E-8229-945DFA91F089 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Dec 9, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Daniel Migault = wrote: > We are looking at which reference to UTF8 we should mention into the = SSH UTF8 terminal mode. > =20 > [1] mentions that RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that a = reference to ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful. > =20 > Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC = 10646:2014 ? > =20 > The question is whether we should have one reference or both in the = draft. Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed in ISO/IEC = 10646:2014, I am incline to have only RFC3629. Is that something that = sounds reasonable to everyone ? =20 According to RFC 3629: NOTE -- The authoritative definition of UTF-8 is in [UNICODE]. This grammar is believed to describe the same thing Unicode describes, but does not claim to be authoritative. Implementors are urged to rely on the authoritative source, rather than on this ABNF. The actual link in the RFC for [UNICODE] is somewhat out of date as you = said, but wouldn=E2=80=99t the best reference here be to = http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/ = listed on the page that the = RFC links to? According to that page: The documentation for the latest version of the Unicode Standard is = always found at the stable link: http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/ = This reference also has an excellent appendix which describes the = relationship between the Unicode standard and ISO/IEC 10646 at: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode9.0.0/appC.pdf = The definition of UTF-8 can be found in section 3.9 of the Unicode = specification, and the appendix states: The ISO/IEC 10646 definition of UTF-8 is identical to UTF-8 as described = under Definition D92 in Section 3.9, Unicode Encoding Forms.=20 --=20 Ron Frederick ronf@timeheart.net --Apple-Mail=_2784F5CC-49C1-4E0E-8229-945DFA91F089 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On Dec 9, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wrote:
We are looking at which reference to UTF8 we should mention = into the SSH UTF8 terminal mode.
 
[1] =
mentions that  RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that a reference =
to ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful.
 
Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed = in ISO/IEC 10646:2014 ?
 
The question is whether we should have one reference = or both in the draft. Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed = in ISO/IEC 10646:2014, I am incline to have only RFC3629. Is that = something that sounds reasonable to everyone ?  
According to RFC 3629:

   NOTE -- The =
authoritative definition of UTF-8 is in [UNICODE].=
  This
   grammar is =
believed to describe the same thing Unicode describes, but
   does not claim to be authoritative. =
 Implementors are urged to rely
  =
 on the authoritative source, rather than on this =
ABNF.

The actual link in the RFC for [UNICODE] is somewhat out of = date as you said, but wouldn=E2=80=99t the best reference here be = to http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/ listed on = the page that the RFC links to? According to that = page:

The documentation for the latest version = of the Unicode Standard is always found at the stable link: http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/

This reference also has an = excellent appendix which describes the relationship between the Unicode = standard and ISO/IEC 10646 at:

http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode9.0.0/appC.pdf
=

The definition = of UTF-8 can be found in section 3.9 of the Unicode specification, and = the appendix states:

The = ISO/IEC 10646 definition of UTF-8 is identical to UTF-8 as described = under Definition D92 in Section 3.9, = Unicode Encoding Forms. 

-- 
Ron = Frederick
ronf@timeheart.net



= --Apple-Mail=_2784F5CC-49C1-4E0E-8229-945DFA91F089-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Dec 12 11:17:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC671296B2 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 11:17:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F2X6WoSxVEnm for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 11:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E3DB1294B2 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 11:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 56302855D3; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:17:14 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FC6855C7 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:17:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id aZ3LDfwMM470 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:17:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C337684CBD for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:17:09 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: c6180641-e73ff70000000a0b-00-584ea3495358 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 85.1B.02571.943AE485; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 14:16:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 14:17:06 -0500 From: Daniel Migault To: Mouse , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Subject: RE: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Topic: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Index: AdJSkFcrezBUbqPTQY2bum9e5UMqZgAfs8oAAGcLCwA= Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:17:05 +0000 Message-ID: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF2172@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612101259.HAA17917@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> In-Reply-To: <201612101259.HAA17917@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoK7XYr8Ig4+tkhYf7j1mszjedZDF gclj4cMeRo9dWw8wBzBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGVcvvqRqWC1aMWz7fdZGxibBLsYOTkkBEwk ehe8Zuxi5OIQEljPKLGp7S4ThLOcUWLHx3ksIFVsAkYSbYf62UFsEYFQiXM/Z7KB2MIClhJ3 l/1kg4hbSczv/8ICY/9fuoYVxGYRUJW4dmITWJxXwFdi8981UAuaGCXmtJ4GG8opYC+x4sE6 sEGMAmIS30+BFHFyMAuIS9x6Mp8J4lQBiSV7zjND2KISLx//Y4WwlSQ+/p7PDlGvI7Fg9yc2 CFtbYtnC18wQiwUlTs58wjKBUWQWkrGzkLTMQtIyC0nLAkaWVYwcpcUFObnpRoabGIGBf0yC zXEH495ez0OMAhyMSjy8Bs1+EUKsiWXFlbmHGCU4mJVEeDd9AgrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9i lOZgURLnvR5yP1xIID2xJDU7NbUgtQgmy8TBKdXAKPhyR9ei0L8B4ZKqa15xRRw75PPaxbTw 4+65B79cnrxPOPhW+q7tj6yztz/eOMtB793tJeftvi6/LvPr3/T5156rhKqskLqwOYVfdrn6 P8td/DLmZobaBonycf//ru6a212r3pMo7Z3VcaoiwiLpevha1sZXVkkywQeOJW8p2r4zk329 vLV7tRJLcUaioRZzUXEiAJY+Obx4AgAA Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Hi,=20 Thank you all for the comments and feed backs.=20 As far as I understand, adding the two references ISO/IEC 10646:2014 with U= RL and RFC3629 in the current document reaches a consensus. ISO will be inf= ormative while RFC3929 will be normative.=20 I also noted that for the future, there is a demand that RFC3929 be refresh= ed with at least new references for Unicode. But I do not think we should w= ait for that now.=20 If that is fine with everyone, I believe the draft can be moved forward.=20 Yours, =20 Daniel -----Original Message----- From: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org [mailto:ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org] On Behal= f Of Mouse Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:59 PM To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode > We are looking at which reference to UTF8 we should mention into the=20 > SSH UTF8 terminal mode. > [some Web URL] mentions that RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that=20 > a reference to ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful. > Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC > 10646:2014 ? > The question is whether we should have one reference or both in the=20 > draft. Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed in ISO/IEC=20 > 10646:2014, I am incline to have only RFC3629. Is that something that=20 > sounds reasonable to everyone ? My opinion - probably worth about what you paid for it - is that the RFC is= a much better reference. This is for entirely non-technical reasons. The ISO believes pay-to-play is reasonable for standards, and, while 10646:2014 seems to be one they make an exception for, (a) getting it requi= res a _lot_ more hoop-jumping than an RFCs, (b) getting it requires agreein= g to what for most of the world is foreign legal jurisdiction, (c) they say= what you'd get is a "single-user, non-revisable Adobe Acrobat(r) PDF file"= , which means either it's DRMed or they're stupid enough to think no other = PDF-handling software than Adobe's exists (I don't know which; between the = jurisdictional issue, the difficulty of jumping through their hoops, and my= lack of any real need for it, I haven't fetched it), and (d) their copyrig= ht terms are ridiculously onerous for something supposedly "freely availabl= e" - for example, you are prohibited from storing it on a filesystem that g= ets backed up, and you are permitted only one printed copy. > This Communication is Confidential. Then you might want to avoid sending it to a public, publicly archived, mai= ling list. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Dec 12 22:17:48 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A543129869 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 22:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.195 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.195 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id vY2z9GS7yI03 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:28:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg0-x22c.google.com (mail-pg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C7068558B for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:28:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id x23so38423999pgx.1 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 11:28:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timeheart.net; s=mail; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=wZhkXMnXDQyavLzrRzJS9XJomHlUJ9wZhgABEytaX1I=; b=NU0o0kDur1587a1JEaRUhwEx4MD7yedJc2GXM+lYtQJXwEDI8EGXtAtlNviiYlYuK4 0TGtJDpppEfEPRliai4p+wwEW9z4j035VBtVOCsSOlS5uPYT0swryGL0hOZnl2OCS25X 7ch48NLGrCgqZ6H7zzip6+DxnRIGnONulMbSY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C2F599E-CB4E-4253-B98E-27A8E512BF94" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 11:28:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF2172@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Cc: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" To: Daniel Migault References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612101259.HAA17917@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF2172@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list --Apple-Mail=_9C2F599E-CB4E-4253-B98E-27A8E512BF94 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 What=E2=80=99s the motivation for not directly referencing = http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/ = here, or is that the link you = had in mind to use in conjunction with the RFC? I understand and agree = with the objection raised about not wanting to deal with the hassles of = pay-to-play specifications and custom watermarked PDFs that would apply = to some of the ISO/IEC docs, but that does not apply to the documents = present on www.unicode.org . While I have no = objection to linking to the RFC, it does reference quite an old version = of the standard at this point. Also, in your text below you switched from RFC 3629 to RFC 3929. The = correct reference is the former (RFC 3629). On Dec 12, 2016, at 11:17 AM, Daniel Migault = wrote: > Thank you all for the comments and feed backs.=20 >=20 > As far as I understand, adding the two references ISO/IEC 10646:2014 = with URL and RFC3629 in the current document reaches a consensus. ISO = will be informative while RFC3929 will be normative.=20 >=20 > I also noted that for the future, there is a demand that RFC3929 be = refreshed with at least new references for Unicode. But I do not think = we should wait for that now.=20 >=20 > If that is fine with everyone, I believe the draft can be moved = forward.=20 >=20 > Yours, >=20 > Daniel > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org [mailto:ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org] On = Behalf Of Mouse > Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:59 PM > To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org > Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode >=20 >> We are looking at which reference to UTF8 we should mention into the=20= >> SSH UTF8 terminal mode. >=20 >> [some Web URL] mentions that RFC3629 is slightly out of date and that=20= >> a reference to ISO/IEC 10646:2014 may also be useful. >=20 >> Is anyone aware of any deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC >> 10646:2014 ? >=20 >> The question is whether we should have one reference or both in the=20= >> draft. Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies fixed in ISO/IEC=20 >> 10646:2014, I am incline to have only RFC3629. Is that something that=20= >> sounds reasonable to everyone ? >=20 > My opinion - probably worth about what you paid for it - is that the = RFC is a much better reference. This is for entirely non-technical = reasons. >=20 > The ISO believes pay-to-play is reasonable for standards, and, while > 10646:2014 seems to be one they make an exception for, (a) getting it = requires a _lot_ more hoop-jumping than an RFCs, (b) getting it requires = agreeing to what for most of the world is foreign legal jurisdiction, = (c) they say what you'd get is a "single-user, non-revisable Adobe = Acrobat(r) PDF file", which means either it's DRMed or they're stupid = enough to think no other PDF-handling software than Adobe's exists (I = don't know which; between the jurisdictional issue, the difficulty of = jumping through their hoops, and my lack of any real need for it, I = haven't fetched it), and (d) their copyright terms are ridiculously = onerous for something supposedly "freely available" - for example, you = are prohibited from storing it on a filesystem that gets backed up, and = you are permitted only one printed copy. >=20 >> This Communication is Confidential. >=20 > Then you might want to avoid sending it to a public, publicly = archived, mailing list. >=20 > /~\ The ASCII Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B --=20 Ron Frederick ronf@timeheart.net --Apple-Mail=_9C2F599E-CB4E-4253-B98E-27A8E512BF94 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
What=E2=80=99s the motivation for not directly = referencing http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/ here, or is = that the link you had in mind to use in conjunction with the RFC? I = understand and agree with the objection raised about not wanting to deal = with the hassles of pay-to-play specifications and custom watermarked = PDFs that would apply to some of the ISO/IEC docs, but that does not = apply to the documents present on www.unicode.org. While I have no objection to linking to = the RFC, it does reference quite an old version of the standard at this = point.

Also, in your text below you = switched from RFC 3629 to RFC 3929. The correct reference is the former = (RFC 3629).

On Dec 12, 2016, at = 11:17 AM, Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wrote:
Thank you all for the comments and feed backs.

As far as I understand, adding the two = references ISO/IEC 10646:2014 with URL and RFC3629 in the current = document reaches a consensus. ISO will be informative while RFC3929 will = be normative.

I also noted that for the = future, there is a demand that RFC3929 be refreshed with at least new = references for Unicode. But I do not think we should wait for that now. =

If that is fine with everyone, I believe = the draft can be moved forward.

Yours,

Daniel
-----Original = Message-----
From: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org [mailto:ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org] On Behalf Of Mouse
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:59 PM
To: = ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org
Subject: Re: Reference = for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode

We are looking at which = reference to UTF8 we should mention into the
SSH UTF8 = terminal mode.

[some Web URL] mentions that RFC3629 is = slightly out of date and that
a reference to ISO/IEC = 10646:2014 may also be useful.

Is anyone aware of any = deficiencies in RFC3629 fixed in ISO/IEC
10646:2014 ?

The question is whether we should have one reference or both = in the
draft.  Unless RFC 3629 has some deficiencies = fixed in ISO/IEC
10646:2014, I am incline to have only = RFC3629. Is that something that
sounds reasonable to = everyone ?

My opinion - = probably worth about what you paid for it - is that the RFC is a much = better reference.  This is for entirely non-technical reasons.

The ISO believes pay-to-play is reasonable for = standards, and, while
10646:2014 seems to be one they make = an exception for, (a) getting it requires a _lot_ more hoop-jumping than = an RFCs, (b) getting it requires agreeing to what for most of the world = is foreign legal jurisdiction, (c) they say what you'd get is a = "single-user, non-revisable Adobe Acrobat(r) PDF file", which means = either it's DRMed or they're stupid enough to think no other = PDF-handling software than Adobe's exists (I don't know which; between = the jurisdictional issue, the difficulty of jumping through their hoops, = and my lack of any real need for it, I haven't fetched it), and (d) = their copyright terms are ridiculously onerous for something supposedly = "freely available" - for example, you are prohibited from storing it on = a filesystem that gets backed up, and you are permitted only one printed = copy.

This Communication is Confidential.

Then you might want to avoid = sending it to a public, publicly archived, mailing list.
/~\ The ASCII  Mouse
\ / = Ribbon Campaign
X  Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! =     7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 = 27 4B
-- 
Ron = Frederick
ronf@timeheart.net



= --Apple-Mail=_9C2F599E-CB4E-4253-B98E-27A8E512BF94-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Dec 12 22:18:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E18129869 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 22:18:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cULu6qfow1qu for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 22:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD7F4129408 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 22:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 621AB855EF; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 06:18:07 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 09424855EE; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 06:18:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A769185572 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:43:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id Nxwjo0tqGFRm for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:43:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94E0484CF5 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:43:49 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: c6180641-e87ff70000000a0b-c7-584ead06f2ae Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BD.AC.02571.60DAE485; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 14:58:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 14:58:40 -0500 From: Daniel Migault To: Ron Frederick CC: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Subject: RE: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Topic: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Index: AdJSkFcrezBUbqPTQY2bum9e5UMqZgAfs8oAAGcLCwAACyA/gAAKLYYw Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:58:40 +0000 Message-ID: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF21A4@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> 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(10.141.229.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.771.4; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 06:24:57 +0000 Received: from CO2PR05MB699.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.229.21]) by CO2PR05MB699.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.229.21]) with mapi id 15.01.0771.014; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 06:24:57 +0000 From: Mark Baushke To: Daniel Migault CC: Ron Frederick , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Topic: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode Thread-Index: AdJSkFcrezBUbqPTQY2bum9e5UMqZgAVOZUAAHHFXYAAAGXsgAABDdwAABXfQwA= Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 06:24:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612101259.HAA17917@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF2172@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <6353B598-245B-4D12-80E1-69323700C862@timeheart.net> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF21A4@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF21A4@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=mdb@juniper.net; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.12] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0b8ffc9d-c08f-4d80-9442-08d42320c269 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:CO2PR05MB698; x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 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<7206DFED94F9094885A14E9E6F6DB6B2@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Dec 2016 06:24:57.0895 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR05MB698 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list > On Dec 12, 2016, at 11:58 AM, Daniel Migault wrote: >=20 > Hi, > =20 > Apology for the confusion. So my understanding of the problem is that usi= ng RFC3629 as a reference for the UTF-8 is not convenient as its two normat= ive references need to be updated. The two references in question are: ISO/= IEC 10646:2014 and Unicode. However from this thread, I am hearing that the= major concern is about providing a updated reference for Unicode, not so m= uch ISO/IEC 10646. As a result, > =20 > I propose to have the following references: > =20 > RFC3629 as normative > [UNICODE] The Unicode Consortium. The Unicode Standard. > as informational. > =20 I like it. > A more recent version of ISO/IEC 10646 will be done by refreshing RFC3629= . Yes. > =20 > Am I correct ? It seems like a good plan to me. --=20 Mark D Baushke mdb@juniper.net Security, from Chip to Cloud From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Tue Dec 13 07:18:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEEA6129B68 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:18:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iO52IoQR7L9W for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B20E12985D for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 6D0348558B; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:18:39 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3E885587 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:18:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 3d5y-DdiGLV1 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:18:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg0-x22b.google.com (mail-pg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C8C98556D for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:18:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f188so48611012pgc.3 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:18:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timeheart.net; s=mail; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=QyxG8SXIQ+OarC0ZVgCfAvj1dfY6bd53kmKRyCXe4/Y=; b=G2G3shyDA8gGzYdl0RoG0cFfqGKx8y/mwgTz9+16XySx+KRbCArWNzkYsNAW2ljwFE 4EiQJPtqJGTOJ5V6bQEiwB0v1WdM4XRZ/GI3T14jZe8P2VpgyUk9jup0snV2gYiuXV/C TDGFydh7fbPM3GM6BoLQO80GSS9oLMj1Qk1y4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=QyxG8SXIQ+OarC0ZVgCfAvj1dfY6bd53kmKRyCXe4/Y=; b=JyDfBzxQQxoFX4mKUyxDqPzbvn+ikyr3T7LtTMbqgvaDjXVMx7CyYbBkDtTMquo0K1 0wBE9gzy7BuybM2/4g7lehSll7squUEMpImSeZmqCtUUBoMrEn4axoIo4d3KlVj38Jnv NfgWAyzfjBz8uDurU+Bv4CZI4noPhFzzUMfFwqjfns3uUrnO7r5HCfOzMRaMcXqYvMcM IltD6SwTeWVUBlTopfhNdc4mcJC22KNzGUIhxg/TpN0Mq6cP8YUXPVe8eQTuRrkYdeK4 TWWhsLVlYs2urF7HhMIaQqpdYaxWP/YLZkztpnaeXaomay2awvVxjTmebqJq7s1MeEdN 2KEA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC03U5uUF0CJjteFpPb8h9t1hWgE7UkHHtzXWJcUz3tv2D29MnLoTnL0cK2VbtDd/YQ== X-Received: by 10.99.137.66 with SMTP id v63mr177427335pgd.117.1481642314624; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:4282:2200:cfa:5497:d692:7eeb? ([2601:647:4282:2200:cfa:5497:d692:7eeb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z9sm81337655pge.44.2016.12.13.07.18.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:18:34 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode From: Ron Frederick In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 07:18:32 -0800 Cc: Mark Baushke , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612101259.HAA17917@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF2172@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <6353B598-245B-4D12-80E1-69323700C862@timeheart.net> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF21A4@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> To: Daniel Migault X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list On Dec 12, 2016, at 10:24 PM, Mark Baushke wrote: >> On Dec 12, 2016, at 11:58 AM, Daniel Migault = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> Apology for the confusion. So my understanding of the problem is that = using RFC3629 as a reference for the UTF-8 is not convenient as its two = normative references need to be updated. The two references in question = are: ISO/IEC 10646:2014 and Unicode. However from this thread, I am = hearing that the major concern is about providing a updated reference = for Unicode, not so much ISO/IEC 10646. As a result, >>=20 >> I propose to have the following references: >>=20 >> RFC3629 as normative >> [UNICODE] The Unicode Consortium. The Unicode Standard. >> as = informational. >>=20 >=20 > I like it. >=20 >> A more recent version of ISO/IEC 10646 will be done by refreshing = RFC3629. >=20 > Yes. >=20 >> Am I correct ? >=20 > It seems like a good plan to me. Sounds good here as well. Thanks! --=20 Ron Frederick ronf@timeheart.net From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Tue Dec 13 12:13:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1649D1295B9 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 12:13:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.985 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.985 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YcjbltIoeMCY for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 12:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 136CF129574 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 12:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id B5D2485574; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:13:11 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 5BE6B8556E; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:13:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5AB985586 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:30:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 33_D0STCb-sp for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:30:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 103C285574 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:30:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id d9so235440170ioe.0 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:30:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=MIg1RS/NYy89oMZZEUUfy6IeHbvXCjIcnYjiXzUYHdc=; b=tk80y1aEU2IQu+/0ueLoBgP04XEk25MC63UfRyIWlwjHUQbWuiKR0O0lKd8ZnUWbMj DWjTxGm4CRf0PDO1+VdUyc5owDORFYYXh59QRDe0z1MVhNlVzFzEPSl2iZ/vyWfdwALf 1AAfdf90ify/KeBB6Vzl1qYXr9mi0PyPLs5ZHLr6USIdf34WB1kuEz/SenPOAatx28mm SEMDVDrSiL2so+miYS3qUXTQ/Yuecws4u/EhoJq4D7kvmQgJEGRpkTt53KlnaW4vqqVY uuu+HD6Ub3Fwfj6p2sE6QMzrTstd/Dsubhz0H+/3os9auoxlvi/SleVEjaOeJ47NUmeX Jbxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MIg1RS/NYy89oMZZEUUfy6IeHbvXCjIcnYjiXzUYHdc=; b=RL4/UmIbS4xgYK8UmUAvsru/vDHUqxhr1sANmNVWczTu6SREs77s1a7P2ZO/xrxUa5 mqgrjuP+svBxIgBDPAiL85F6dlnJz4b7kupiigISjeewHzCYZV9V6rwdWHRbJ546l84H odTa4FGll7kiq6Ty1LfM0GXl+7WUhAR481v9riNjL4hoX8/oKwZxWghgOb37jFXEGWiX AsOhYR2rshVe/Y+79RRZ5WMCCRp3RvzqbWHAQSgsRIjvpQiWBV5pIoDQt/Q/PaBf+do+ FXLIUL08vzjB/2DKSfC08b1wx6z9Qi6J9ikkhZ1hPcZ8Or7quXJvHaEs006mAX+Ng4gc 58KQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02yNzcr76nIQS49on7gFUSsQd+8vWOXS6ow1Zdh2T1Xuy6LStDfg0xP5dEpEaAsNcyyonEypBUAH29I+w== X-Received: by 10.36.29.19 with SMTP id 19mr3346148itj.101.1481650204679; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:30:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.59.214 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:30:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FE79EF@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612101259.HAA17917@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF2172@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <6353B598-245B-4D12-80E1-69323700C862@timeheart.net> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF21A4@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> From: Daniel Migault Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 18:30:04 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PvIJDgeAHtyOHp5WOSRZPErAr8k Message-ID: Subject: Re: Reference for UTF8 in SSH UTF8 terminal mode To: Ron Frederick Cc: Mark Baushke , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1143e54621a1e605438d921c Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list --001a1143e54621a1e605438d921c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Thanks for the feed backs, I believe we are now ready for a (last) version before moving the draft forward. Yours, Daniel On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Ron Frederick wrote: > On Dec 12, 2016, at 10:24 PM, Mark Baushke wrote: > >> On Dec 12, 2016, at 11:58 AM, Daniel Migault < > daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Apology for the confusion. So my understanding of the problem is that > using RFC3629 as a reference for the UTF-8 is not convenient as its two > normative references need to be updated. The two references in question > are: ISO/IEC 10646:2014 and Unicode. However from this thread, I am hearing > that the major concern is about providing a updated reference for Unicode, > not so much ISO/IEC 10646. As a result, > >> > >> I propose to have the following references: > >> > >> RFC3629 as normative > >> [UNICODE] The Unicode Consortium. The Unicode Standard. > >> as > informational. > >> > > > > I like it. > > > >> A more recent version of ISO/IEC 10646 will be done by refreshing > RFC3629. > > > > Yes. > > > >> Am I correct ? > > > > It seems like a good plan to me. > > > Sounds good here as well. Thanks! > -- > Ron Frederick > ronf@timeheart.net > > > > --001a1143e54621a1e605438d921c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Thanks for the feed backs,= I believe we are now ready for a (last) version before moving the draft fo= rward.

Yours,
Daniel



On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Ron Frederick <ronf@timeheart.net> wrote:
On D= ec 12, 2016, at 10:24 PM, Mark Baushke <mdb@juniper.net> wrote:
>> On Dec 12, 2016, at 11:58 AM, Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wrote: >>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Apology for the confusion. So my understanding of the problem is t= hat using RFC3629 as a reference for the UTF-8 is not convenient as its two= normative references need to be updated. The two references in question ar= e: ISO/IEC 10646:2014 and Unicode. However from this thread, I am hearing t= hat the major concern is about providing a updated reference for Unicode, n= ot so much ISO/IEC 10646. As a result,
>>
>> I propose to have the following references:
>>
>> RFC3629 as normative
>> [UNICODE]=C2=A0 The Unicode Consortium. The Unicode Standard.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <= http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/> as informational.
>>
>
> I like it.
>
>> A more recent version of ISO/IEC 10646 will be done by refreshing = RFC3629.
>
> Yes.
>
>> Am I correct ?
>
> It seems like a good plan to me.


Sounds good here as well. Thanks!
--
Ron Frederick
ronf@timeheart.net




--001a1143e54621a1e605438d921c-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Wed Dec 14 11:34:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873EE129ECA for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 11:34:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4kmP0u6Rh2-O for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 11:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AB32129EC9 for ; 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([2601:647:4282:2200:cfa:5497:d692:7eeb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l11sm90269251pfb.28.2016.12.14.19.14.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Dec 2016 19:14:34 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Subject: Re: New Version Notification - draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt From: Ron Frederick In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF354E@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 19:14:32 -0800 Cc: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0917CDD8-F84E-41CD-99D3-0DD62B75BD4B@timeheart.net> References: <148166458750.29362.18378725891208955198.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF354E@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> To: Daniel Migault X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list Looks good here. On Dec 13, 2016, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Migault = wrote: > Please find the new version of the draft and let us know if you have = more comments.=20 >=20 > Yours,=20 > Daniel >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:30 PM > To: Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com; Daniel Migault = > Subject: New Version Notification - draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version (-05) has been submitted for draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8/ >=20 > Diff from previous version: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. >=20 > IETF Secretariat. --=20 Ron Frederick ronf@timeheart.net From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Wed Dec 14 22:30:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CE1129871 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:30:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NulVBiM_HI5c for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 755B2129859 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:30:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id A506F85586; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 61DCD85581; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6682855A4 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 02:24:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 4i6oGEwdiEYE for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 02:24:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG [98.124.61.89]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D3C85581 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 02:24:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24159; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 21:24:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 21:24:19 -0500 (EST) From: Mouse Message-Id: <201612150224.VAA24159@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. X-Message-Flag: Microsoft: the company who gave us the botnet zombies. X-Composition-Start-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 21:12:33 -0500 (EST) To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: FW: New Version Notification - draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF354E@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <148166458750.29362.18378725891208955198.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF354E@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list > Please find the new version of the draft and let us know if you have > more comments. The line break inside "I/O" in the abstract looks a bit broken. Other than that I see nothing wrong with it offhand - well, except for the brokenness inherent in using UTF-8 at all, which strikes me as out of scope for the draft. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Thu Dec 15 22:26:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BD2129469 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:26:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.296 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.296 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IgDuCjpLSp8p for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 873A5129412 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 3098A855C0; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 06:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id D5A5A855C3; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 06:26:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064BA85586 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:09:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 2mpao3sLNSLE for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:09:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skroderider.denisbider.com (skroderider.denisbider.com [50.18.172.175]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EA7985572 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:09:51 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=denisbider.com; s=mail; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to: references; bh=IUfHuy4ZAPc8RuhTJjeSyxaoB/Htb3nhE2xhLNzPAS4=; b=LTlDRhT5lCg0BmgxtvpPLry63jiqiPqipoNK6V5k2+uPwhVy/s0yBu3WTTo7HitwpFkihwLFh0NkM i2Jk1r9mQftJ3qoX/XByCO5vUdumuT2yjyawJ+ylcPLQJicR88Rv66oF4nspGv/Ummw9BZTjtwwHYv w2T+T6FrltLIOjf7sYRi+gsZOWyDa5wkW2ANi4PolCIzvZf+S3iDIhQdlZ8gVJRYy48pFk9y+3gw5Q yKHFPh2IikQ7/94mdpIugkIPsiR8Bc9gVn3DYPwk/Wgn+p/xqR4IVxFlxOVUpRbsMOAcVxcR18xnn1 vqe8XTppCQnYp+BRQ6LpfwkucnF7Zvw== X-Footer: ZGVuaXNiaWRlci5jb20= Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by skroderider.denisbider.com (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits)); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:02:56 +0000 Message-ID: From: "denis bider \(Bitvise\)" To: "Mouse" , References: <148166458750.29362.18378725891208955198.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com><2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF354E@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612150224.VAA24159@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> In-Reply-To: <201612150224.VAA24159@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Subject: Re: New Version Notification - draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:00:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0240_01D256A0.FCF02B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0240_01D256A0.FCF02B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What=E2=80=99s inherently broken in using UTF-8...? From: Mouse=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 20:24 To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org=20 Subject: Re: FW: New Version Notification - = draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt > Please find the new version of the draft and let us know if you have > more comments. The line break inside "I/O" in the abstract looks a bit broken. Other than that I see nothing wrong with it offhand - well, except for the brokenness inherent in using UTF-8 at all, which strikes me as out of scope for the draft. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ------=_NextPart_000_0240_01D256A0.FCF02B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What=E2=80=99s inherently broken in using UTF-8...?
 
 
From: Mouse
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 20:24
Subject: Re: FW: New Version Notification -=20 draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt
 
>=20 Please find the new version of the draft and let us know if you = have
>=20 more comments.

The line break inside "I/O" in the abstract looks = a bit=20 broken.

Other than that I see nothing wrong with it offhand - = well,=20 except for
the brokenness inherent in using UTF-8 at all, which = strikes me as=20 out
of scope for the draft.

/~\ The ASCII   = Mouse
\ /=20 Ribbon Campaign
X  Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org
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------=_NextPart_000_0240_01D256A0.FCF02B80-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Thu Dec 15 22:26:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D81129412 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:26:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.985 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.985 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hRsx46u9aH4h for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB4E1129469 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 9FED4855D3; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 06:26:49 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 4AD91855C3; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 06:26:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19DCB8556C for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:57:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id Gc7Ljn2eCuQm for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:57:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-x22b.google.com (mail-io0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BDB684CEF for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:57:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 136so69499710iou.3 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 05:57:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=2EEY7oFUqfVtlUfFg6OCR06CD1urnDzhadeMJ7ZKjcg=; b=av05Eg44d+tINMoXosFkl+Ou5CzeJzfzpZk1mmT5RN8u9NFm4fWbQIfB9KDdtsYaVG mkGEv6wf76vam1oAZ3R0EEIOfoDCY/AuixWR0HlItVGcW9aVsFHUNYDh1pKSNPJjhEGC 16sma+VRGn4ghV7IggiTB95qyYwVxAZcqMdhDj/wcNEeXsiryYFHgJ7lQNFve6GhYKDq TxjIc7xzW3gf3fdEoe5HCRP5OildgjzeuDb81CRYEij1BaZUJeRHH+ao1JcyN1g1ElXO qy73ip3qywyJAXp9/HjfO+gftFF3H3ve2Pd0BHilHuXUOhtwPMyYQHNQR6N5Y3CAekfe tovg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2EEY7oFUqfVtlUfFg6OCR06CD1urnDzhadeMJ7ZKjcg=; b=n66VxUWz2hddZYh7jvLKIg2LqZYQKUMoUcEE2qflTL80OOBXehTd0Orz1MBaFK4BU+ o2RQ0UHh+Waf43QoFhbDrddj1kJJ0Y/SQ7eXwoICEggekGSmvVb/DXIg0Egi02dV9Kwx qOy8ET+weHWi/G7ar2bcjprlBq0FEFsqohxTGBZJ8rtJ2fnBXPdS2p66Nl5Fsh91lQuf 3rCSVv+62GroLWPU/ncwcbFE9USS8PAK28FUtd3hw3nIrnoC8HRUoQZP8yw1k+XWBqJz 4Os/wqAtw73JYkQCw64Kh6OvsCFy84MU3es4QeVTMhyLf/h+UutJRC2m+CenpsGB9Zud Ca/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJt6R/F6HCcu2NJ/D9gHYTyUbYIWLzIqbCeu64ew2n3PSTEOep9vshQnY4IqONXdrtzyl2hsxT3kCdsdg== X-Received: by 10.107.44.5 with SMTP id s5mr1382523ios.10.1481810243696; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 05:57:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.59.214 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 05:57:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201612150224.VAA24159@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> References: <148166458750.29362.18378725891208955198.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF354E@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612150224.VAA24159@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> From: Daniel Migault Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:57:23 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 49nXlatTlMsvZfXTjK-TA0YXMrA Message-ID: Subject: Re: FW: New Version Notification - draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt To: Mouse Cc: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113944903341f90543b2d540 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list --001a113944903341f90543b2d540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Your are right about the line break, but I will leave that to the rfc editor. Yours, Daniel On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Mouse wrote: > > Please find the new version of the draft and let us know if you have > > more comments. > > The line break inside "I/O" in the abstract looks a bit broken. > > Other than that I see nothing wrong with it offhand - well, except for > the brokenness inherent in using UTF-8 at all, which strikes me as out > of scope for the draft. > > /~\ The ASCII Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > --001a113944903341f90543b2d540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Your are right about the = line break, but I will leave that to the rfc editor.=C2=A0

Yo= urs,
Daniel

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Mouse <= mouse@roden= ts-montreal.org> wrote:
> Please find the new version of the draft and let us know= if you have
> more comments.

The line break inside "I/O" in the abstract looks a bit br= oken.

Other than that I see nothing wrong with it offhand - well, except for
the brokenness inherent in using UTF-8 at all, which strikes me as out
of scope for the draft.

/~\ The ASCII=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
=C2=A0X=C2=A0 Against HTML=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 mouse@rodents-montreal= .org
/ \ Email!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A07D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39= =C2=A0 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

--001a113944903341f90543b2d540-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Fri Dec 16 11:04:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3AF129B7D for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 11:04:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3lSxwka85Oo4 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 11:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E1D4129443 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 11:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id A6502855BD; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 19:03:47 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 62B688557D; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 19:03:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DE585594 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 12:38:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id AMO1G2lpYm7n for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 12:38:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG [98.124.61.89]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3191484CBD for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 12:38:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15001; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 07:38:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 07:38:38 -0500 (EST) From: Mouse Message-Id: <201612161238.HAA15001@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. X-Message-Flag: Microsoft: the company who gave us the botnet zombies. X-Composition-Start-Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 07:12:38 -0500 (EST) To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: UTF-8 [was Re: New Version Notification - draft-sgtatham-secsh-iutf8-05.txt] In-Reply-To: References: <148166458750.29362.18378725891208955198.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com><2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C117FF354E@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <201612150224.VAA24159@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list > What=E2=80=99s inherently broken in using UTF-8...? Different characters occupy different amounts of space. (Some) characters are larger than one addressing unit (most machines). There are octet sequences which are not valid UTF-8 character sequences. This results in text tools that break on small amounts of non-UTF-8 text mixed into the text they're handling. (This is not really a problem with UTF-8 proper - there are also octets that are not valid 8859-1 text, for example - but a problem with how it's implemented; in my experience UTF-8 text tools break when faced with non-UTF-8 octet sequences, whereas single-octet text tools usually don't break when faced with invalid octets.) Some characters have multiple distinct encodings. (Okay, that too is not really UTF-8 proper - it's actually Unicode.) I've seen it said (by the git documentation) that transcoding from some character sets like 8859-1 to UTF-8 is not a reversible operation. This seems dubious to me, but, if true, it would be another, and fairly strong, strike against UTF-8 in my opinion. That's just what come to mind immediately. I don't use UTF-8 myself if I can help it (when I run into something using it my major concern is how to make it stop doing so), so it's entirely possible there are others I'm just not aware of. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B