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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D1BCOPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:06:12 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D1BCOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU2h3ZXRoYSwNCg0KTG9va3MgYmV0dGVyLCBUaGFua3MuDQoNClNvbWUgZWFzeSB0byBmaXgg cG9pbnRzIGluIG15IHJldmlldzogaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2luYmFuZC1vYW0vaWV0Zi9w dWxsLzIwMS9maWxlcw0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KRGUgOiBzZmMgW21haWx0bzpzZmMtYm91 bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gRGUgbGEgcGFydCBkZSBTaHdldGhhDQpFbnZvecOpIDogc2FtZWRpIDMx IG9jdG9icmUgMjAyMCAxMjoyMQ0Kw4AgOiBGcmFuayBCcm9ja25lcnMgKGZicm9ja25lKSA8ZmJy 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ZmllZC4KVGhhbmsgeW91Lgo8L1BSRT48L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D1BCOPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Sun Nov 1 23:49:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAEF83A03F4; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:48:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sfc@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sfc@ietf.org Message-ID: <160430333679.21352.5278464633315080990@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 23:48:56 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:48:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF. Title : Proof of Transit Authors : Frank Brockners Shwetha Bhandari Tal Mizrahi Sashank Dara Stephen Youell Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2020-11-01 Abstract: Several technologies such as Traffic Engineering (TE), Service Function Chaining (SFC), and policy based routing are used to steer traffic through a specific, user-defined path. This document defines mechanisms to securely prove that traffic transited a defined path. These mechanisms allow to securely verify whether, within a given path, all packets traversed all the nodes that they are supposed to visit. This document specifies a data model to enable these mechanisms using YANG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 1 23:50:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260B03A044A; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:50:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nLGDdkjw-9Ga; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:50:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBD403A045E; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CPlT93gD3z7tVL; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 08:50:37 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604303437; bh=0hQRnpWmThY8uhd3ooWdZ7fnJDnHzRYYoh9xVa9NZN8=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=lVOvdEgzxiJB9k6cDVpJi9JdL+d7eQ1026v69/GgtLYGlMXsXj1P8QVkH02er4kk6 g+wcHL1JJLK9umbGFumjnNte6lnVadGEPKHaflarEXQbSEW5W9KxCrMwwiQRLyFd+W xWxEqvUa3wdNI+vCsDzMk02xE0/SgaTZjJ+IaSUT69MUDdhQOVlMUUP4NmZWOYF+pp XjNIU3RIN43QPUk8OamhCEWxe2KTSKnfcXUFxCKA9Knz34/fLqygmeK2xfjLvFkcza 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text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:50:41 -0000 SGkgQmVuLCANCg0KVGhpcyBpcyBhIGZhaXIgYW5kIGEgZ29vZCBwb2ludC4gDQoNCkZZSSwgd2Ug cmFpc2VkIHRoaXMgcG9pbnQgdG8gdGhlIFdHIChzZWUgU2xpZGUgNyBvZiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9wcm9jZWVkaW5ncy8xMDQvc2xpZGVzL3NsaWRlcy0xMDQtc2ZjLXNmYy1jaGFpci1z bGlkZXMtMDEpLiBCZWNhdXNlIHRoZSBpc3N1ZSBpcyAqKiBub3Qgc3BlY2lmaWMgKiogdG8gdGhp cyBzcGVjLCB0aGUgV0cgZGVjaWRlZCB0byBkZWZpbmUgYSBzb2x1dGlvbiB0aGF0IHdpbGwgYXBw bHkgdG8gYW55IFRMViBjYXJyeWluZyBzZW5zaXRpdmUgZGF0YSAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGVuY3J5cHRp b24pOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNmYy1uc2gtaW50ZWdyaXR5Lg0KDQpXaGF0IGFib3V0IG1ha2luZyB0 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YWx0ZXJlZCwgT3JhbmdlIGlzIG5vdCBsaWFibGUgZm9yIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVu IG1vZGlmaWVkLCBjaGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNpZmllZC4KVGhhbmsgeW91LgoK From nobody Sun Nov 1 23:57:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495B23A045E; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:57:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SCZiN1wuQqOq; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92B223A044E; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 23:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CPldM1JBxz7tJN; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 08:57:43 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604303863; bh=aYd0p9jIFpEjHQKjRnUnGUzPb5I7iWnova8EaqJZkqc=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=rq2adFdGGJLvNaLzAFd2UILYEI8FwKQ7E7jrid1PzEAgNvcZHbMj35Lfc/8Zzyabm OnWTApSXm4HeEA6K+6V3gAsu9b06otEGIC6xCfhlOjsJi9Ndhnir3ww4yyU+bxGhqC pJfKuNbFEbiaGwWgcnwO+UVhiHqb/jaAiTW1k8aQm8u/94RMNcwNE6niX7Ev6U1IjR I8z1XObdxZFEtE65U99ErMfwQjQE/YANqVlcCn6bdofgZgN3W62t6n7Ezn+l2cP2sR lHVqXeThCCWsqNFFfkhmw+gRjOvi2O88ep1KnZSFeKJ5zAuG4gWFXhVPXZiuh/0dL8 i678Xg9M2hCdA== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.32]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CPldL6wZSzCqkZ; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 08:57:42 +0100 (CET) From: To: Erik Kline , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Thread-Topic: Erik Kline's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWr023TVJUR1XZzUylcVvNh4br96m0fKNg Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 07:57:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1553_1604303863_5F9FBBF6_1553_281_20_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D307@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160412513508.7487.9949531714155839895@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160412513508.7487.9949531714155839895@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Erik Kline's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:57:46 -0000 SGkgRXJpaywgDQoNClNlY3Rpb24gNSBvZiBSRkMgODMwMCBpcyBiZXR0ZXIuIA0KDQpUaGFuayB5 b3UuIA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU1lc3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4g RGXCoDogRXJpayBLbGluZSB2aWEgRGF0YXRyYWNrZXIgW21haWx0bzpub3JlcGx5QGlldGYub3Jn XQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IHNhbWVkaSAzMSBvY3RvYnJlIDIwMjAgMDc6MTkNCj4gw4DCoDogVGhl IElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IENjwqA6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtc2ZjLXNlcnZpY2VpZC1o ZWFkZXJAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IHNmYy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7DQo+IHNmY0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgR3Jl 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<11739_1603695809_5F9674C1_11739_418_2_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330315666F5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <3605_1604300767_5F9FAFDF_3605_42_19_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D1BC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <3605_1604300767_5F9FAFDF_3605_42_19_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D1BC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Shwetha Bhandari Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:20:02 +0530 Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: Shwetha , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org" , "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000011194605b31affc5" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 04:11:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [sfc] Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:50:17 -0000 --00000000000011194605b31affc5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, Thanks again, the draft is now published with your suggestions. Thanks, Shwetha On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 12:36 PM wrote: > Hi Shwetha, > > > > Looks better, Thanks. > > > > Some easy to fix points in my review: > https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/201/files > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Shwetha > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* samedi 31 octobre 2020 12:21 > *=C3=80 :* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org; Nagendra Kumar Nainar > (naikumar) ; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN < > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit > > > > Hi Med, > > > > Thanks again for the detailed review and catching the inaccuracies. Can > you please review the pull https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/201 > that addresses these comments? If there are any additional comments/chang= es > we plan to address them before publishing the draft on Monday - Nov 2nd > before the submission cut-off. > > > > Thanks, > > Shwetha > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 12:46 AM Frank Brockners (fbrockne) < > fbrockne@cisco.com> wrote: > > Hi Med, > > > > Thanks a lot for the quick review. We=E2=80=99ll get a revised version w= ith your > comments included out soon. > > > > Cheers, Frank > > > > > > > > *From:* mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > *Sent:* Montag, 26. Oktober 2020 08:03 > *To:* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; > Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) ; sfc-chairs@ietf.or= g > *Cc:* shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.or= g; > sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit > > > > Hi Franck, > > > > Please find below some quick comments, fwiw: > > - The abstract mentions UML but I don=E2=80=99t see which part of the = document > it is referring to. > - Please add a statement in the core document to NMDA (RFC 8342) > - Please add =E2=80=9Cyang-version 1.1;=E2=80=9D right before the name= space line > - Update this text: > > > > OLD: > > import ietf-netconf-acm { > > prefix nacm; > > } > > > > NEW: > > import ietf-netconf-acm { > > prefix nacm; > > reference > > "RFC 8341: Network Configuration Access Control Model"; > > } > > > > - Make this modification: > > > > OLD: > > revision "2020-09-08" { > > description > > "Addressing WGLC comments"; > > reference > > "draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit "; > > } > > > > revision 2016-06-15 { > > description > > "Initial revision."; > > reference > > "draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit "; > > } > > > > NEW: > > revision "2020-09-08" { > > description > > "Initial revision."; > > reference > > "RFC XXXX: Proof of Transit"; > > } > > > > - You need to be more explicit about the nodes you are referring to in > Section 7.10: =E2=80=9CThere are **a number of nodes** defined in this= ...=E2=80=9D > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org ] *De la > part de* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* dimanche 25 octobre 2020 14:49 > *=C3=80 :* Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) ; > sfc-chairs@ietf.org > *Cc :* shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com; > draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org > *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit > > > > Dear SFC WG chairs, Nagendra, > > > > FYI - We=E2=80=99ve just posted > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-07.txt > which updates draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit per the comments received > during WGLC and from Nagendra as the document shepherd. Special thanks to > Shwetha, who did the heavy lifting on this version update. > > > > Cheers, Frank > > > > > > *From:* Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) > *Sent:* Montag, 3. August 2020 14:52 > *To:* draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org > *Cc:* sfc-chairs@ietf.org > *Subject:* Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit > > > > Hi Authors, > > > > Please find the shepherd writeup in the below link: > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/shepherd= writeup/ > > > > The document is in good shape and addressing the WGLC comments and a > couple of comments from my review should help us move forward. > > > > Thanks, > > Nagendra > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > --00000000000011194605b31affc5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Med,

Thanks again, the draft is now = published with your suggestions.

Thanks,
Shwetha

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 12:36 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

Hi Shwetha,

=C2=A0

Looks better, Thanks.

=C2=A0

Some easy to fix points in my rev= iew: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/201/files

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Shwetha
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: samedi 31 octobre 2020 12:21
=C3=80=C2=A0: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Cc=C2=A0: s= fc-chairs@ietf.org; s= fc@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org; Nagendra = Kumar Nainar (naikumar) <naikumar@cisco.com>; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <mohamed.boucadai= r@orange.com>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf= .org>
Objet=C2=A0: Re: [sfc] Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tr= ansit

=C2=A0

Hi Med,

=C2=A0

Thanks again for the detailed review and catching th= e inaccuracies. Can you please review the pull=C2=A0https://github.com/inban= d-oam/ietf/pull/201 that addresses these comments? If there are any additional comments/changes we plan to address them before publish= ing the draft on Monday - Nov 2nd before the submission cut-off.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Shwetha

=C2=A0

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 12:46 AM Frank Brockners (fb= rockne) <fbrockn= e@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Med= ,

=C2=A0=

Thanks= a lot for the quick review.=C2=A0 We=E2=80=99ll get a revised version with= your comments included out soon.=

=C2=A0=

Cheers= , Frank

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Fro= m: mohamed.b= oucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Sent: Montag, 26. Oktober 2020 08:03
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>= ;; Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) <naikumar@cisco.com>; sfc-chairs@ietf.or= g
Cc: = shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit

=C2=A0

Hi Franck,

=C2=A0=

Please find below some quick comm= ents, fwiw:

  • The abstract mentions UML but I don=E2=80=99t see which part of the = document it is referring to.
  • Please add a statement in the core document to NMDA (RFC 8342)
  • Please add =E2=80=9Cyang-version 1.1;=E2=80=9D right before the name= space line
  • Update this text:

=C2=A0

OLD: 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0import ietf-netconf=
-acm {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 prefi=
x nacm;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0


NEW:<=
u>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 import ietf-netconf-acm =
{


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 prefi=
x nacm;


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 reference


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
"RFC 8341: Network Configuration Access Control Model";


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=C2=A0


    

  • 
Make this modification:


=C2=A0


OLD:<=
u>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 revision "202=
0-09-08" {


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 description<=
/span>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
"Addressing WGLC comments";=



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 reference


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
"draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tr=
ansit";=



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=C2=A0<=
/span>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 revision 2016-06-15 {


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 description<=
/span>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
"Initial revision.";


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 reference


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
"draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tr=
ansit";=



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=C2=A0


NEW:<=
u>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 revision "202=
0-09-08" {


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 description<=
/span>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
"Initial revision.";


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 reference


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
"RFC XXXX: Proof of Transit";<=
u>


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=C2=A0


    

  • 
You need to be more explicit about the nodes you are referring to in=
 Section 7.10: =E2=80=9CThere are **a number of nodes** defined in this ...=
=E2=80=9D


=C2=A0


Cheers,


Med


=C2=A0








De=C2=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org]
De la part de Frank Brockners (fbrockne)

Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: dimanche 25 octobre 2020 14:49

=C3=80=C2=A0: Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) <naikumar@cisco.com>;
sfc-chairs@ietf.or=
g

Cc=C2=A0: shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com;
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org;
sfc@ietf.org

Objet=C2=A0: Re: [sfc] Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-tr=
ansit






=C2=A0


Dear S=
FC WG chairs, Nagendra,

=C2=A0=



FYI - =
We=E2=80=99ve just posted

https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-07.txt =
which updates draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit per the comments received dur=
ing WGLC and from Nagendra as the document shepherd. Special thanks to Shwe=
tha, who did the heavy lifting on
 this version update.


=C2=A0=



Cheers=
, Frank


=C2=A0=



=C2=A0=









Fro=
m: Nagendra Kumar =
Nainar (naikumar) <naikumar@cisco.com>


Sent: Montag, 3. August 2020 14:52

To: 
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit@ietf.org

Cc: sfc-cha=
irs@ietf.org

Subject: Shepherd Writeup - draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit






=C2=A0


Hi Authors,


=C2=A0


Please find the shepherd writeup in the below link:


=C2=A0


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/shep=
herdwriteup/


=C2=A0


The document is in good shape and addressing the WGLC comments and a =
couple of comments from my review should help us move
 forward.


=C2=A0


Thanks,


Nagendra


=C2=A0






______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________=



=C2=A0


Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc=



pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler


a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,


Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.


=C2=A0


This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<=
/u>


they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
span lang=3D"EN-US">


If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.


As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.


Thank you.


______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
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Thank you.
--00000000000011194605b31affc5-- From nobody Mon Nov 2 18:08:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96CEE3A133E; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:07:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RCNfxgkNa1V9; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:07:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AB533A133C; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:07:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0A327hLc010286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 2 Nov 2020 21:07:48 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 18:07:43 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Message-ID: <20201103020743.GF39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160410933541.16179.15193989217234885583@ietfa.amsl.com> <14200_1604303437_5F9FBA4D_14200_375_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D2E0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <14200_1604303437_5F9FBA4D_14200_375_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D2E0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 02:07:56 -0000 Hi Med, Thanks for helping out with the early start. On Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 07:50:36AM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi Ben, > > This is a fair and a good point. > > FYI, we raised this point to the WG (see Slide 7 of https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/104/slides/slides-104-sfc-sfc-chair-slides-01). Because the issue is ** not specific ** to this spec, the WG decided to define a solution that will apply to any TLV carrying sensitive data (including encryption): draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity. > > What about making this change: > > OLD: > A misbehaving node within from the SFC-enabled domain may alter the > content of Subscriber Identifier and Performance Policy Context > Headers which may lead to service disruption. Such attack is not > unique to the Context Headers defined in this document; measures > discussed in [RFC8300] are to be followed. > > NEW: > A misbehaving node within from the SFC-enabled domain may alter the > content of Subscriber Identifier and Performance Policy Context > Headers which may lead to service disruption. Such attack is not > unique to the Context Headers defined in this document; measures > discussed in [RFC8300] are to be followed. A mechanism for SFC integrity > is specified in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity]. I may well have to properly read the document to comment confidently, but I think this change is not along the axis I am most concerned about right now. (It is a find change to make, just not the change I was looking for here.) Specifically, it is talking about "how can I protect this information?" rather than "why might I need to protect this information?". I think that the statement in 8300 is saying that we ("would", at the time of 8300, but now "will") need to consider how (e.g.) the per-packet subscriber information would traverse through the SFP, what nodes would now have access to it (at a per-packet level) that did not previously, whether there are network links (yes, even within the trusted domain) that would now have access to the additional metadata, if there is other cleartext data or metadata in the payload that is now easily associated with the subscriber for social-engineering/blackmail/etc. attacks, etc. In short, the considerations that someone would have to think about in order to decide whether nsh-integrity will be needed for their deployment. Thanks, Ben > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > Envoyé : samedi 31 octobre 2020 02:56 > > À : The IESG > > Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; > > sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky ; > > gregimirsky@gmail.com > > Objet : Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header- > > 12: (with DISCUSS) > > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to > > all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to > > cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss- > > criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > DISCUSS: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > > This is an "early warning" discuss ballot, entered before I have > > done a full review of the document. > > As such, it is possible that the stated concern may in fact be a > > non-issue after closer examination, but the potential import of the > > concern seems to make it worth starting the discussion sooner rather > > than later. > > > > This document defines (among other things) a mechanism for carrying > > subscriber information in an NSH. RFC 8300 (NSH) notes both that: > > > > Metadata privacy and > > security considerations are a matter for the documents that > > define > > metadata format. > > > > and that: > > > > One useful element of providing privacy protection for > > sensitive > > metadata is described under the "SFC Encapsulation" area of > > the > > Security Considerations of [RFC7665]. Operators can and > > should > > use indirect identification for metadata deemed to be > > sensitive > > (such as personally identifying information), significantly > > mitigating the risk of a privacy violation. In particular, > > subscriber-identifying information should be handled > > carefully, > > and, in general, SHOULD be obfuscated. > > > > On the other hand, this document in its security considerations > > claims that: > > > > Data plane SFC-related security considerations, including > > privacy, > > are discussed in [RFC7665] and [RFC8300]. > > > > and does not seem to incorporate any discussion of the privacy and > > security considerations of the subscriber information metadata > > carried by the new format it conveys. Yes, it does note that all > > nodes with access to the information are part of the same trusted > > domain, but I do not think that is sufficient, especially given that > > personally identifiable information is often subject to strict > > compliance regimes. > > > > In short, 8300 and this document are referring to each other for > > privacy considerations, and the actual privacy considerations do not > > seem to be documented in either place. > > > > Additionally, I did not see any indication of how the subscriber- > > identifying information ought to be obfuscated (or an explanation of > > why it is okay to violate the SHOULD from 8300). > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > From nobody Tue Nov 3 02:11:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264D23A15E6; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 02:10:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kf-ZzOzkoTjx; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 02:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 260B43A15FB; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 02:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CQQXX3FWwz5vSw; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 11:10:52 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604398252; bh=JhVqUFtt/MrgfskXXek1Ivp1h0sBZyplsDkCfPz38Ik=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=F2jkH9H3fEnAp713FkiklPUGdF0RkJ8KaMOG/2qWX23RYgzXGcb75FSXQa4z4NjSt ZRkbsY5bJ71CsG+D6H/16diX6DaY8DjcpXdAuwA1K5jbVKDbL1b6Wm7PPMY48aPUph HRWWha6+MnqH5J7KdoWsw/GrSfV6e7qJF7pLS2AnRJt7DDnwOXWL0AO0yGuxJVMa4/ JrPK0GYldRruDdiJr9R3tLTxkfFtsPx4vHr2xl1ZGz4ftNm5Tvpmei+pQuleR1usj+ 8k5LAbtRpqCS/cqotTU1bkK3XKoHNSCC7NJdh7IwMq6FAjsCztuG8beioOJt21zBbs v5AilfZLUUDEw== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.35]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CQQXW6Gg6zBrM5; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 11:10:51 +0100 (CET) From: To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) Thread-Index: AQHWsYYdj9aNt53qTkShksvgnpc6+am2LtXQ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 10:10:50 +0000 Message-ID: <21930_1604398252_5FA12CAB_21930_254_2_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156EDDC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160410933541.16179.15193989217234885583@ietfa.amsl.com> <14200_1604303437_5F9FBA4D_14200_375_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156D2E0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20201103020743.GF39170@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20201103020743.GF39170@kduck.mit.edu> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 10:11:04 -0000 Hi Ben,=20 While waiting for your full review, I drafted the following text:=20 Both Subscriber Identifier and Performance Policy Context Headers carry opaque data. The structure of the identifiers conveyed in these Context Headers is communicated only to entitled NSH-aware nodes. Nevertheless, some structures may be easily inferred from the headers (e.g., use of IP addresses). The use of trivial subscriber identifier structures together with the presence of specific SFs in a service function chain (e.g., lawful intercept SF) reveal sensitive information to every on-path device (but also to teams managing these devices). Such disclosure is a violation in many jurisdictions because such information should be available to very few network operator personnel. Furthermore, access to subscriber data usually requires specific access privilege levels. To maintain that protection, an SF keeping operational logs should not log the content of a Subscriber and Performance Policy Context Headers unless the SF actually uses the content of these headers for its operation. A mechanism for encrypting sensitive NSH data is specified in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity]. This mechanism can be considered by network operators when enhanced SF-to-SF security protection of NSH metadata is required. Will tweak it further.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 3 novembre 2020 03:08 > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > Cc=A0: The IESG ; draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid- > header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky > > Objet=A0: Re: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid- > header-12: (with DISCUSS) >=20 > Hi Med, >=20 > Thanks for helping out with the early start. >=20 > On Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 07:50:36AM +0000, > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > Hi Ben, > > > > This is a fair and a good point. > > > > FYI, we raised this point to the WG (see Slide 7 of > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/104/slides/slides-104-sfc-sfc- > chair-slides-01). Because the issue is ** not specific ** to this > spec, the WG decided to define a solution that will apply to any TLV > carrying sensitive data (including encryption): draft-ietf-sfc-nsh- > integrity. > > > > What about making this change: > > > > OLD: > > A misbehaving node within from the SFC-enabled domain may alter > the > > content of Subscriber Identifier and Performance Policy Context > > Headers which may lead to service disruption. Such attack is > not > > unique to the Context Headers defined in this document; > measures > > discussed in [RFC8300] are to be followed. > > > > NEW: > > A misbehaving node within from the SFC-enabled domain may alter > the > > content of Subscriber Identifier and Performance Policy Context > > Headers which may lead to service disruption. Such attack is > not > > unique to the Context Headers defined in this document; > measures > > discussed in [RFC8300] are to be followed. A mechanism for SFC > integrity > > is specified in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity]. >=20 > I may well have to properly read the document to comment > confidently, but I think this change is not along the axis I am most > concerned about right now. (It is a find change to make, just not > the change I was looking for > here.) Specifically, it is talking about "how can I protect this > information?" rather than "why might I need to protect this > information?". > I think that the statement in 8300 is saying that we ("would", at > the time of 8300, but now "will") need to consider how (e.g.) the > per-packet subscriber information would traverse through the SFP, > what nodes would now have access to it (at a per-packet level) that > did not previously, whether there are network links (yes, even > within the trusted domain) that would now have access to the > additional metadata, if there is other cleartext data or metadata in > the payload that is now easily associated with the subscriber for > social-engineering/blackmail/etc. attacks, etc. In short, the > considerations that someone would have to think about in order to > decide whether nsh-integrity will be needed for their deployment. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Ben ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Tue Nov 3 20:36:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCF6B3A13D5; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 20:36:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, Greg Mirsky , gregimirsky@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 20:36:46 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 04:36:47 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Retaining my original Discuss position (without the "early warning" note), as it is the one that was supported by Martin D and Alvaro: %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% This document defines (among other things) a mechanism for carrying subscriber information in an NSH. RFC 8300 (NSH) notes both that: Metadata privacy and security considerations are a matter for the documents that define metadata format. and that: One useful element of providing privacy protection for sensitive metadata is described under the "SFC Encapsulation" area of the Security Considerations of [RFC7665]. Operators can and should use indirect identification for metadata deemed to be sensitive (such as personally identifying information), significantly mitigating the risk of a privacy violation. In particular, subscriber-identifying information should be handled carefully, and, in general, SHOULD be obfuscated. On the other hand, this document in its security considerations claims that: Data plane SFC-related security considerations, including privacy, are discussed in [RFC7665] and [RFC8300]. and does not seem to incorporate any discussion of the privacy and security considerations of the subscriber information metadata carried by the new format it conveys. Yes, it does note that all nodes with access to the information are part of the same trusted domain, but I do not think that is sufficient, especially given that personally identifiable information is often subject to strict compliance regimes. In short, 8300 and this document are referring to each other for privacy considerations, and the actual privacy considerations do not seem to be documented in either place. Additionally, I did not see any indication of how the subscriber-identifying information ought to be obfuscated (or an explanation of why it is okay to violate the SHOULD from 8300). %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% To record some additional synthesis of the above (original) remark with my more thorough reading of the document: we are defining containers specifically to contain subscriber and performance policy identifiers/information. While the specific contents are out of scope for this document, we still are obligated to describe the general classes of issues that can arise due to conveying those types of information within a SFC domain. We should also give guidance on how to populate the contents of these context headers in a secure and privacy-supporting manner, including the use of indirect identification and obfuscation/encryption. Futhermore (and this part is not a discuss point but may lead to me switching my position to Abstain once the discusses are resolved), I have some misgivings about including subscriber identification information at all, and would prefer if it could instead be translated into the relevant policy information element(s) needed by the SFP in question before being applied to the NSH. For example, rather than saying "this packet is from user X" we could say "this packet is part of quota bucket ABC (with bucket size Z) for time period Y" to enforce per-user quota. While in this case the identifier would still ultimately lead back to an individual, the identifier would be rotated periodically, and it is possible to achieve some level of de-linkability as records age out (depending on how the "ABC" is generated, of course). I do recognize that even for non-quota use cases where a user is part of multiple distinct policy groups, the combination of those groups might still identify only a small anonymity set, but the overall privacy properties of such a design seem superior than consistent use of a persistent identifier or identifiers, in aggregate. I have an additional Discuss point after doing a more thorough review of the document -- I think there's a (minor) internal inconsistency within Section 3: Intermediary NSH-aware nodes have to preserve Subscriber Identifier Context Headers (i.e., the information can be passed to next hop NSH- aware nodes), but local policy may require an intermediary NSH-aware node to strip a Subscriber Identifier Context Header after processing it. since it seems to say that NSH-aware intermediary nodes both "have to preserve" and "may strip" a Service Identifier Context Header. Similar language is used to describe the Performance Policy Identifier Context Header, in Section 4, which would presumably receive a similar modification to the Subscriber Identifier case. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am preparing a significant number of (hopefully) editorial suggestions in a local copy of the XML source; I plan to send that as a diff to the authors as a response to the ballot mail. Section 1 This document does not make any assumption about the structure of subscriber or performance policy identifiers; each such identifier is treated as an opaque value. The semantics and validation of these identifiers are policies local to an SFC-enabled domain. This document focuses on the data plane behaviour. Control plane considerations are out of the scope. (Control plane considerations probably touch on the privacy properties of the system as a whole, but I think I understand the point being made here.) Section 3 The classifier and NSH-aware SFs MAY inject or strip a Subscriber Identifier Context Header as a function of a local policy. In order to prevent interoperability issues, the type and format of the identifiers to be injected in a Subscriber Identifier Context Header should be configured to nodes authorized to inject and consume such headers. [...] I think this is more of a "needs to" rather than a "should". For example, a node can be instructed to insert such data following a type/set scheme (e.g., node X should inject subscriber ID type Y). Other schemes may be envisaged. Just to check my understanding, the fact that it was node X that injected a given subscriber ID context header is determined from the SPI, since the SPI uniquely identifies the SFP? Failures to inject such headers should be logged locally while a notification alarm may be sent to a Control Element. The details of sending notification alarms (i.e., the parameters affecting the transmission of the notification alarms depend on the information in the Context Header such as frequency, thresholds, and content of the alarm (full header, timestamp, etc.)) should be configurable. While this is purely an editorial remark (and I will be including a proposal in my editorial diff), I did want to note that I can't actually parse how the (outer) parenthetical is supposed to apply, and expect that my suggestion is going to change the meaning somehow. This document adheres to the recommendations in [RFC8300] for handling the Context Headers at both ingress and egress SFC boundary nodes (i.e., to strip such Context Headers). Revealing any personal and subscriber-related information to third parties is avoided by design to prevent privacy breaches in terms of user tracking. I think s/third parties/parties outside the administrative domain/ may be more accurate. I would also end the last sentence after "design" and split the remaining portion into a new sentence: "Accordingly, the scope for privacy breaches and user tracking is limited to within the administrative domain where the NSH is used". if the NSH-aware SF is instructed to do so. For example, an SF that expects an internal IP address as subscriber identifier will discard Subscriber Identifier Context Headers conveying Mobile Subscriber ISDN Number (MSISDN), International Mobile Subscriber Identity (IMSI), or malformed IP addresses. There's a little bit of cognitive dissonance here in that we say that the content of the context header is opaque, yet are giving a list of things that would involve peeking inside that opacity (and possibly some additional structure to identify the type). (No specific action requested here, just making an observation.) Section 4 instance selection, or policy selection at SFs. Note that the use of the Performance Policy Identifier is not helpful if the path computation is centralized and a strict SFP is presented as local policy to SF Forwarders (SFFs). I'm not sure I understand why this is the case; wouldn't the performance policy information still be useful for, e.g., not dropping UHR packets when buffers are full, regardless of whether the SFP is strict or not? performance, or proximity considerations. For the particular case of UHR services, the stand-by operation of back-up capacity or the deployment of multiple SF instances may be requested. I'm not sure that I understand how a per-packet header would request *deployment* of multiple instances. Perhaps the intent is to say that the presence of multiple instances is requested? (Or perhaps I misunderstand, of course.) In an environment characterised by frequent changes of link and path behaviour, for example due to variable load or availability caused by propagation conditions on a wireless link, the SFP may have to be adapted dynamically by on-the-move SFC path and SF instance selection. (Is "on-the-move selection" a new term here? I kind of thought we had used a different term to describe this type of behavior in a previous document, but couldn't find it quickly.) Multiple Performance Policy Identifier Context Headers MAY be present in the NSH, each carrying an opaque value for a distinct policy that need to be enforced for a flow. Supplying conflicting policies may complicate the SFP computation and SF instance location. Corresponding rules to detect conflicting policies may be provided as a local policy to the NSH-aware nodes. When such conflict is detected by an NSH-aware node, the default behavior of the node is to discard the packet and send a notification alarm to a Control Element. [It seems like we are providing guidance on the "default behavior" of something that is entirely dependent on there being some local policy, which is perhaps an unusual thing to do. I don't object to it, per se, though.] Section 6 When we recommend logging on exception conditions, we typically also include a note about the risk of DoS due to log spew. With respect to privacy considerations, whenever we have multiple Subscriber Identifier Context Headers present we are providing the information that thos different (types of) identifiers identify the same subscriber or individual. This can be used to correlate other observations and track that individual more effectively. If one was able to spoof a performance policy identification context header one would be in a position to steal (quality of) service, which is related to the "service disruption" attack already discussed in the text, but IMO distinct from it. trusted ([RFC8300]). Means to check that only authorized nodes are solicited when a packet is crossing an SFC-enabled domain are out of scope of this document. I'm not entirely sure that I understand what "solicited" is being used for, here. Is it something to do with the source/destination (ouside the SFC domain) of the packet, or the nodes on the path within the SFC domain, or something else? Section 8.2 [RFC8459] seems to be unused. From nobody Tue Nov 3 23:06:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5F13A0B3B; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 23:06:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, Greg Mirsky , gregimirsky@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke?= Message-ID: <160447360974.14778.1078740998266370203@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 23:06:49 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?sfc-serviceid-header-12=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 07:06:50 -0000 Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for the work put into this document. Please find below a couple of non-blocking COMMENT points and I would appreciate it if the authors answered to my points that were closed to be a DISCUSS. I hope that this helps to improve the document, Regards, -éric -- Section 1 -- Please clarify the following text as NAT only applies to IPv4 and as there is no private addresses in IPv6 " Typically, because of the widespread use of private addressing in those networks, if SFs to be invoked are located after a NAT function, the identification based on the internal IP address is not possible once the NAT has been crossed. " -- Section 3 -- While I am not familiar with NSH RFC 8300 and the concept of updating the NSH context, the following text makes me wonder: " The classifier and NSH-aware SFs MAY inject or strip a Subscriber Identifier Context Header as a function of a local policy." It appears to me that a SF would actually increase/decrease the size of NSH which could lead to two issues: 1) the actual MTU is decreased on the path *after* encapsulation 2) if ICMP is generated back to the source of the NSH header, then will the source recognize the NSH packet inside the ICMP message as it is different ? 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bw2K_cUP80kP; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 01:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75B743A0E57; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 01:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CR1p96NhRz106K; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 10:39:45 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604482785; bh=H7S1u5PxquuYYLReIyBs+VX9B53bT52kaNBBEI5jIE0=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=KyJmObFz7FKx+tKxax/N+fBnzpZhqTxTFuicVQcTREo1KxnTFFEphSphJD1elckox nFck6KsBTPBm0ROOmStkS3CCvRyXWebSbMxcg7PKrhWOpYKOoecEXfOIKtSRBJ/LmJ mwBTRyhQvqzNvJmuAoep8ABY+f2YGFUPCWKW0imjmYHgmT9eZ18YWthaIsthmZGmDk 0XDh7Y1UdFpOTS/PU+DRj5/bf2ITebgiZC78J8BxBrsWnLnBWumReMllFYkNhM/YoJ okPbKizTEWB7Pvul9Ryd+HBuDuagk/ZA51WKaZE3+4JZVgkxaYtwcEJOqOkspOtVar J4vLUkPYwDq0Q== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.26]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CR1p95MhczDq9T; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 10:39:45 +0100 (CET) From: To: Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWsmQcaRx2oc7hJkO61zMw0ckSBqm3qcag Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 09:39:44 +0000 Message-ID: <28389_1604482785_5FA276E1_28389_92_3_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156F9F0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 09:39:53 -0000 SGkgQmVuLCANCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgZGV0YWlsZWQgcmV2aWV3LiANCg0KU3RhcnRpbmcg d2l0aCB0aGUgIkNPTU1FTlQiIHBhcnQuIFRoZSBESVNDVVNTIHdpbGwgYmUgaW4gYSBzZXBhcmF0 ZSBtZXNzYWdlLiANCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUuIA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAt LS0tLU1lc3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gRGXCoDogQmVuamFtaW4gS2FkdWsgdmlhIERh dGF0cmFja2VyIFttYWlsdG86bm9yZXBseUBpZXRmLm9yZ10NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBtZXJjcmVk aSA0IG5vdmVtYnJlIDIwMjAgMDU6MzcNCj4gw4DCoDogVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ 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Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 10:33:31 -0000 UmUtLCANCg0KRm9jdXNpbmcgb24gdGhlIERJU0NVU1MuIA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4g DQoNCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tTWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKg OiBCZW5qYW1pbiBLYWR1ayB2aWEgRGF0YXRyYWNrZXIgW21haWx0bzpub3JlcGx5QGlldGYub3Jn XQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IG1lcmNyZWRpIDQgbm92ZW1icmUgMjAyMCAwNTozNw0KPiDDgMKgOiBU aGUgSUVTRyA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4gQ2PCoDogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1zZmMtc2VydmljZWlk LWhlYWRlckBpZXRmLm9yZzsgc2ZjLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsNCj4gc2ZjQGlldGYub3JnOyBH cmVnIE1pcnNreSA8Z3JlZ2ltaXJza3lAZ21haWwuY29tPjsNCj4gZ3JlZ2ltaXJza3lAZ21haWwu Y29tDQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IEJlbmphbWluIEthZHVrJ3MgRGlzY3VzcyBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNm 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Nov 2020 11:40:53.3123 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bde4dffc-4b60-4cf6-8b04-a5eeb25f5c4f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: A/YE9dn86Z0tFg6WuYzAyv4T5bilmJWKa2EkognPU0eq7WzijXvPb4OlubjckgehJ1A68FVWiAi1h50TmDtyHqBcGrK1AH1n0r2WvfSyBMw= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: FRAPR01MB1028 X-TM-SNTS-SMTP: 60B1127F1A792A38B18DABFE6EF99EBB0A79D0F3AD77DB89838411C0ED535D102000:8 X-OriginatorOrg: telekom.de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 11:41:02 -0000 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robert Wilton via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, Greg Mirsky , gregimirsky@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <160449263230.1693.15267055079529033324@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 04:23:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 12:23:53 -0000 Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for this document. A few minor comments/questions: 3. Subscriber Identification NSH Variable-Length Context Header This document adheres to the recommendations in [RFC8300] for handling the Context Headers at both ingress and egress SFC boundary nodes (i.e., to strip such Context Headers). Revealing any personal and subscriber-related information to third parties is avoided by design to prevent privacy breaches in terms of user tracking. This paragraph doesn't appear to be specific to "Subscriber Identification NSH Variable-Length Context Header", yet appears under section 3. Perhaps this paragraph would be better at the end of the introduction, may be continuing on from "This document assumes the NSH is used exclusively within a single administrative domain."? 3. Subscriber Identification NSH Variable-Length Context Header When multiple subscriber identifier Context Headers are present and an SF is instructed to strip the Subscriber Identifier Context Header, that SF MUST remove all Subscriber Identifier Context Headers. Is a local policy allowed to remove a single subscriber identifier Context Header? This text implies that it must always be the case that if one is being removed, they are always all removed. Is that the intention? E.g., I was wondering whether the intent here is to explain that their might be multiple context headers in a packet, and hence if a node is instructed to generically remove the subscriber identifier then it better ensure that it removes all subscriber identifier context headers and not just the first one that it finds. A few nits: "As such, means to allow" => "As such, methods to allow" "out of the scope of this" => "outside the scope of this" or "out of scope for this" "an additional internal structures" => "additional internal structures" "decide unambiguously whether" => "specify whether" From nobody Wed Nov 4 04:41:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884993A1094; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 04:41:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2EqM3-T-fM4I; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 04:41:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACA813A1093; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 04:41:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CR5qf6ZgWz102J; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 13:41:18 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604493678; bh=sbs1n9dsGxCaMjHgt+mRHL3Po2T0N3EXs1c/eaa6Vkg=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=wfc+2lPvvY5vO26uXogihVxWOVBJRsGOeHBYyOp58zgk/61MS1X2ICy/NPaaiC4CS h906qTl1PQvIyQxuzZYWW6x/SwPBsNN0psF3sNoEeXhwqMuJtSyqWlOm5lL4M7lJjE mEpY1hF8b7UWRdPptLJic5dY9XRleWwbOkBxDE1Wqps8F5SvoJCxorMEhAjMMPBHSw 26Tx4Duj6CUA1SDPG0Jd1udeb957BgRpoZapORk0NQuSrxFy1UJxmodkmpDG4dFau9 OXQFZeDtUFJTIpsgBFANEjny3HLLS8/+fsTGBqTKEkM+YPdkDXi7Q8yTC6f6oyZhNb lzia5WTlX+ecA== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.107]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CR5qf5Gz4z1xqP; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 13:41:18 +0100 (CET) From: To: Robert Wilton , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWsqVdjcgimYcCOUWtIw1bNKLvWqm36JHA Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:41:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3474_1604493678_5FA2A16E_3474_88_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FBFC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160449263230.1693.15267055079529033324@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160449263230.1693.15267055079529033324@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 12:41:23 -0000 SGkgUm9iLCANCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB0aGUgY29tbWVudHMgYW5kIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zLiAN Cg0KSW50ZWdyYXRlZCBhbG1vc3QgYWxsIG9mIHRoZW06IGh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9ib3Vj YWRhaXIvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1zZmMtc2VydmljZWlkL2NvbW1pdC84MDMxMzA0M2M1NjJhNDY1NmFj YjRiNTc3MDhmMmE3NDE0NDEzYzZjIA0KDQpJIGNvbmZpcm0gdGhhdCB0aGUgaW50ZW50IGlzIHdo 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15.20.3499.032; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:52:24 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWsqVpwZ7tjU4aSESGPt7d7Xn5CKm36kiAgAACQgA= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:52:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160449263230.1693.15267055079529033324@ietfa.amsl.com> <3474_1604493678_5FA2A16E_3474_88_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FBFC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <3474_1604493678_5FA2A16E_3474_88_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FBFC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: orange.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;orange.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: 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ESMTP id 58F353A12F4; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 07:45:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Magnus Westerlund via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, Greg Mirsky , gregimirsky@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Magnus Westerlund Message-ID: <160450470734.24291.6996019706264327799@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 07:45:07 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 15:45:08 -0000 Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This looks like a significant problem. If I have missed anything in any reference this might be very simple to resolve. However, based on this document and looking at RFC 8300 I think this document is lacking in discussion of the packet size impact of using both dynamic size headers, as well as there are no limits to how many are added. Thus, there are significant risk for this header to increase the packet size so much that it doesn't fit the underlying layer. And as Section 5 in RFC8300 identifies there are no general solution provided in NSH. Thus, I really think this issues needs some discussion. Even if the actual result of this is a requirement on the control plane, the issue exists in the data plane and thus warrants discussion in this document. From nobody Wed Nov 4 08:16:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C74B3A1327; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 08:16:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MJr_rtKV_NRl; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 08:16:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com 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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 16:16:16 -0000 SGkgTWFnbnVzLCANCg0KRXJpYyByYWlzZWQgYSBzaW1pbGFyIGNvbW1lbnQgYnV0IEknbSBhZnJh aWQgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdCBzcGVjaWZpYyB0byB0aGlzIHNwZWMgYXMgd2UgZG9uJ3QgaGF2 ZSBhIGZ1bGwgdmlzaWJpbGl0eSBvbiB0aGUgZnVsbCBzZXQgb2YgbWV0YWRhdGEgdGhhdCB3aWxs IGJlIGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIGEgc2VydmljZSBjaGFpbi4gVGhpcyBpcyBhIGdlbmVyaWMgY29uc2lk ZXJhdGlvbiB3aGVuIGRlcGxveWluZyBOU0guIFRoaXMgaXMgd2h5IHdlIHBvaW50IHRoZSByZWFk ZXIgdG8gU2VjdGlvbiA1IG9mIFJGQzgzMDAuIA0KDQpBcyBOU0ggaXMgZGVwbG95ZWQgd2l0aGlu IGEgc2luZ2xlIGRvbWFpbiwgYW5kIHRoYXQgdGhlIG9wZXJhdG9yIGtub3dzIHRoZSBTRnMgdGhh dCB3aWxsIGluamVjdCB0aGVzZSBoZWFkZXJzIChidXQgYWxzbyBvdGhlciBjb250ZXh0IGhlYWRl 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bGVzIHBpZWNlcyBqb2ludGVzLiBMZXMgbWVzc2FnZXMgZWxlY3Ryb25pcXVlcyBldGFudCBzdXNj ZXB0aWJsZXMgZCdhbHRlcmF0aW9uLApPcmFuZ2UgZGVjbGluZSB0b3V0ZSByZXNwb25zYWJpbGl0 ZSBzaSBjZSBtZXNzYWdlIGEgZXRlIGFsdGVyZSwgZGVmb3JtZSBvdSBmYWxzaWZpZS4gTWVyY2ku CgpUaGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgYW5kIGl0cyBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBtYXkgY29udGFpbiBjb25maWRlbnRp YWwgb3IgcHJpdmlsZWdlZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aGF0IG1heSBiZSBwcm90ZWN0ZWQgYnkgbGF3 Owp0aGV5IHNob3VsZCBub3QgYmUgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQsIHVzZWQgb3IgY29waWVkIHdpdGhvdXQg YXV0aG9yaXNhdGlvbi4KSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwg cGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMg YXR0YWNobWVudHMuCkFzIGVtYWlscyBtYXkgYmUgYWx0ZXJlZCwgT3JhbmdlIGlzIG5vdCBsaWFi bGUgZm9yIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIG1vZGlmaWVkLCBjaGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNp ZmllZC4KVGhhbmsgeW91LgoK From nobody Wed Nov 4 17:48:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7203A1256; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 17:47:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, Greg Mirsky , gregimirsky@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alissa Cooper Message-ID: <160454087758.25747.10885671637453991519@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 17:47:58 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 01:47:58 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Abstain When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Benjamin's DISCUSS. The privacy properties of the mechanism specified in this document do not comport with the recommendations in RFC 8165 or RFC 6973. The document makes no normative recommendations to minimize the identifiability or linkability of the information in the context header. It specifies no normative transport or object encryption, which RFC 8300 conditionally requires (as does RFC 8371 for similar identifiers). (Furthermore, although this documents says the context header should only be used within an administrative domain, RFC 8300 allows for NSH to be used across administrative boundaries if I understand correctly.) The document does not suggest best practices for minimizing the persistence or uniqueness of the identifiers conveyed when circumstances allow it. As Ben noted, many functions performed by SFs don't need to be aware of actual subscriber identifiers that have some other purpose in the network (IP address, mobile network identifiers, etc.). For other protocols that convey unique subscriber identifiers, even protocols that are not end-to-end like DHCP, the IETF has specified detailed guidance to minimize the privacy impact of exposing these identifiers. See, e.g., RFC 7844 and RFC 8064/7721. That level of analysis and guidance is what I would expect for this specification. I suspect that is an unpopular view, though, so I'm abstaining. From nobody Wed Nov 4 22:43:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3366B3A08AE; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 22:43:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9xWLYkxmQFXi; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 22:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com 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from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.29]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CRYqr2G5bzDq9c; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:43:04 +0100 (CET) From: To: Alissa Cooper , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Thread-Topic: Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWsxWx+3WUzdcmd0OTkiIYuUtdCKm5DpRQ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 06:43:03 +0000 Message-ID: <15563_1604558584_5FA39EF8_15563_480_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031570516@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160454087758.25747.10885671637453991519@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160454087758.25747.10885671637453991519@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 06:43:08 -0000 SGkgQWxpc3NhLA0KDQpQbGVhc2UgaW5saW5lLiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1N ZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IEFsaXNzYSBDb29wZXIgdmlhIERhdGF0cmFj a2VyIFttYWlsdG86bm9yZXBseUBpZXRmLm9yZ10NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBqZXVkaSA1IG5vdmVt YnJlIDIwMjAgMDI6NDgNCj4gw4DCoDogVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IENjwqA6 IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtc2ZjLXNlcnZpY2VpZC1oZWFkZXJAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IHNmYy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0 Zi5vcmc7DQo+IHNmY0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgR3JlZyBNaXJza3kgPGdyZWdpbWlyc2t5QGdtYWlsLmNv bT47DQo+IGdyZWdpbWlyc2t5QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBBbGlzc2EgQ29vcGVyJ3Mg QWJzdGFpbiBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNmYy1zZXJ2aWNlaWQtaGVhZGVyLQ0KPiAxMjogKHdpdGgg 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fc0e1181-3223-4c19-a824-08d88166a783 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2020 08:41:56.8506 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2UCco+cCTu069SvWjp4SIubVUtUWbvWl4482X8MyDTqkFI1iiPMarO4hDpEu88r4CVDa+409SCnNQH1aThPQF6hbRY5CVgS7UJvSQPVb0fU= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB4175 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 08:42:03 -0000 --=-OuksALi+VY50RuDaI1+7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2020-11-04 at 16:16 +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi Magnus,=20 >=20 > Eric raised a similar comment but I'm afraid that this is not specific to= this > spec as we don't have a full visibility on the full set of metadata that = will > be included in a service chain. This is a generic consideration when depl= oying > NSH. This is why we point the reader to Section 5 of RFC8300.=20 >=20 > As NSH is deployed within a single domain, and that the operator knows th= e SFs > that will inject these headers (but also other context headers) and the f= ull > set of metadata to be conveyed on a per chain basis, a first reco in RFC8= 300 > is to increase the MTU. >=20 > If the MTU can't be increased, the next reco in RFC8300 is to rely on the > fragmentation/reassembly at the transport encapsulation. We can't call a > specific transport encapsulation because this is deployment-specific.=20 >=20 > Do you have in mind a specific point that we need to record? Do you see a > value if we add an informative reference to draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels?= =20 I think you need to be explicit about the issue, especially as it might be = a consideration both in which form of identifiers are used and thus their siz= e, as well as how many one tries to put on. I think you should state it is a requirement on the control plane to consider congifuration options so that = not more headers are added than can fit, or the domain operator needs to ensure= that a lower layer transport that support fragmentation is supported. intarea-tu= nnels=20 may contribute to context.=20 Cheers Magnus --=-OuksALi+VY50RuDaI1+7 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEtww ggYHMIID76ADAgECAhALRm3NcHtuMGWutmt5cXntMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMEcxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlNFMREwDwYDVQQKDAhFcmljc3NvbjElMCMGA1UEAwwcRXJpY3Nzb24gTkwgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBD QSB2MzAeFw0xNzEyMTUwNzIyMjNaFw0yMDEyMTUwNzIyMjJaMHAxETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29u MRowGAYDVQQDDBFNYWdudXMgV2VzdGVybHVuZDEtMCsGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYebWFnbnVzLndlc3Rl cmx1bmRAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tMRAwDgYDVQQFEwdlcmFtc3dkMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOC 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, On my ballot, I had entered a comment, I was also confused by this naming = =93subscriber=94 as it does raise many privacy concerns (as other ADs are c= ommenting). Whenever this language is used, a complex level of treatment is= required as all operators are very aware - in transit or persistent. And u= sually at higher level application exchange protocols. Below you say it is =93opaque=94 - can you clarify? I was thinking this was= more an operator defined/user data field. Why the need to be so specific t= o say this is identifying a specific subscriber? Why not make it more gener= al - and a more general applicability? Thanks, Deborah ________________________________ From: iesg on behalf of mohamed.boucadair@orange.co= m Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:43:03 AM To: Alissa Cooper ; The IESG Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org ; Greg Mirsky ; sfc-chairs@ietf.org ; sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12:= (with COMMENT) Hi Alissa, Please inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Alissa Cooper via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 5 novembre 2020 02:48 > =C0 : The IESG > Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; > sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky ; > gregimirsky@gmail.com > Objet : Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header- > 12: (with COMMENT) > > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Abstain > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to > all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to > cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/iesg/sta= tement/discuss-__;!!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9RJLRO= ETfuOoFLu1s8c$ > criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-s= fc-serviceid-header/__;!!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9= RJLROETfuOo1TWqp5o$ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > COMMENT: > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > I support Benjamin's DISCUSS. > > The privacy properties of the mechanism specified in this document > do not comport with the recommendations in RFC 8165 or RFC 6973. The > document makes no normative recommendations to minimize the > identifiability or linkability of the information in the context > header. [Med] We do have normative language, but indirectly through the reference t= o RFC8300. "subscriber-identifying information ... SHOULD be obfuscated." As suggested by Ben, we added a note to explicitly remind that behaviour. W= e don't use the normative language again as this is not a new reco but a re= minder: "As discussed in Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], subscriber-identifying information should be obfuscated." It specifies no normative transport or object encryption, > which RFC 8300 conditionally requires (as does RFC 8371 for similar > identifiers). (Furthermore, although this documents says the context > header should only be used within an administrative domain, RFC 8300 > allows for NSH to be used across administrative boundaries if I > understand correctly.) [Med] Hmm ... RFC 8300, Section 1.1 says explicitly the following: "The intended scope of the NSH is for use within a single provider's operational domain. This deployment scope is deliberately constrained, as explained also in [RFC7665], and limited to a single network administrative domain." The document does not suggest best practices > for minimizing the persistence or uniqueness of the identifiers > conveyed when circumstances allow it. [Med] No sure about the uniqueness part, but for the persistence, we added = this NEW text: "If encryption is not enabled, the use of non persistent identifiers as well as the removal of the Subscriber Identifier Context Headers from the NSH by the last SF making use of such headers soften this issue. " As Ben noted, many functions > performed by SFs don't need to be aware of actual subscriber > identifiers that have some other purpose in the network (IP address, > mobile network identifiers, etc.). [Med] Those will just see opaque data. Also, the data will be striped as so= on as it is not needed by downstream SFs. > > For other protocols that convey unique subscriber identifiers, even > protocols that are not end-to-end like DHCP, the IETF has specified > detailed guidance to minimize the privacy impact of exposing these > identifiers. See, e.g., RFC 7844 and RFC 8064/7721. [Med] I'm very familiar with the examples you cited, but they are all invol= ving multiple administrative domains or are visible on the Internet. Our id= entifiers are opaque and can't be leaked by design. That level of > analysis and guidance is what I would expect for this specification. > I suspect that is an unpopular view, though, so I'm abstaining. > ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_MWHPR02MB24644346846854CB465418BCD6EE0MWHPR02MB2464namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Med,

On my ballot, I had entered a comment, I was= also confused by this naming =93subscriber=94 as it does raise many privac= y concerns (as other ADs are commenting). Whenever this language is used, a= complex level of treatment is required as all operators are very aware - in transit or persistent. And usually at= higher level application exchange protocols.

Below you say it is =93opaque=94 - can you c= larify? I was thinking this was more an operator defined/user data field. W= hy the need to be so specific to say this is identifying a specific subscri= ber? Why not make it more general - and a more general applicability?

Thanks,
Deborah

From: iesg <iesg-bounces= @ietf.org> on behalf of mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucada= ir@orange.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:43:03 AM
To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.= org>
Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org <draft-ietf-sfc-serv= iceid-header@ietf.org>; Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>; sfc-c= hairs@ietf.org <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org <sfc@ietf.org&g= t;
Subject: RE: Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-hea= der-12: (with COMMENT)
 
Hi Alissa,

Please inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Alissa Cooper via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 5 novembre 2020 02:48
> =C0 : The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
> Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.or= g;
> sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>;
> gregimirsky@gmail.com
> Objet : Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-heade= r-
> 12: (with COMMENT)
>
> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Abstain
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to
> all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to
> cut this introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-__;= !!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9RJLROETfuOoFLu1s8c$
> criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc= -serviceid-header/__;!!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9RJ= LROETfuOo1TWqp5o$
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --
> COMMENT:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --
>
> I support Benjamin's DISCUSS.
>
> The privacy properties of the mechanism specified in this document
> do not comport with the recommendations in RFC 8165 or RFC 6973. The > document makes no normative recommendations to minimize the
> identifiability or linkability of the information in the context
> header.

[Med] We do have normative language, but indirectly through the reference t= o RFC8300.

     "subscriber-identifying information ... SHOUL= D be obfuscated."

As suggested by Ben, we added a note to explicitly remind that behaviour. W= e don't use the normative language again as this is not a new reco but a re= minder:

   "As
   discussed in Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], subscriber-identifyin= g
   information should be obfuscated."

 It specifies no normative transport or object encryption,
> which RFC 8300 conditionally requires (as does RFC 8371 for similar > identifiers). (Furthermore, although this documents says the context > header should only be used within an administrative domain, RFC 8300 > allows for NSH to be used across administrative boundaries if I
> understand correctly.)

[Med] Hmm ... RFC 8300, Section 1.1 says explicitly the following:

   "The intended scope of the NSH is for use within a single= provider's
   operational domain.  This deployment scope is deliberatel= y
   constrained, as explained also in [RFC7665], and limited to a = single
   network administrative domain."

 The document does not suggest best practices
> for minimizing the persistence or uniqueness of the identifiers
> conveyed when circumstances allow it.

[Med] No sure about the uniqueness part, but for the persistence, we added = this NEW text:

   "If encryption is not
   enabled, the use of non persistent identifiers as well as the = removal
   of the Subscriber Identifier Context Headers from the NSH by t= he last
   SF making use of such headers soften this issue. "

 As Ben noted, many functions
> performed by SFs don't need to be aware of actual subscriber
> identifiers that have some other purpose in the network (IP address, > mobile network identifiers, etc.).

[Med] Those will just see opaque data. Also, the data will be striped as so= on as it is not needed by downstream SFs.

>
> For other protocols that convey unique subscriber identifiers, even > protocols that are not end-to-end like DHCP, the IETF has specified > detailed guidance to minimize the privacy impact of exposing these
> identifiers. See, e.g., RFC 7844 and RFC 8064/7721.

[Med] I'm very familiar with the examples you cited, but they are all invol= ving multiple administrative domains or are visible on the Internet. Our id= entifiers are opaque and can't be leaked by design. 

 That level of
> analysis and guidance is what I would expect for this specification. > I suspect that is an unpopular view, though, so I'm abstaining.
>

___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

--_000_MWHPR02MB24644346846854CB465418BCD6EE0MWHPR02MB2464namp_-- From nobody Thu Nov 5 05:22:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234723A1113; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 05:22:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xKNwp5Iaz4US; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 05:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29A533A110F; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 05:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CRkh652TCz1yXk; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:21:58 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604582518; bh=M+KA7YAzwlvxrudeX123UaEl6Nb1WoqpH4dRy3fq+5Y=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=My8jyCsgzNGdVYBPgP1WaXxDVj2qyf4f2Eus/wIRFZW4qBjAEmjDEOrA1WetbsSqP bUABAh4EAfYnll22TFd6iknrwdgBCiDMZAqT4vtn7+uMXjFieufLTTWaxjPmeju45u eJxglZYit2d8ldz4bmVUj7k8h6XJt3dOfpd76tDhDrviRWwEq9DLSmun9mtMocFRJy A12anqhWooOCxT2k2D0hP6N+lsb+I68ydgslQ60uf10ub8OY1ZMvtPsWmLskLJfIW4 xeSItvU2vLZdFLRo55Ag5xXQivOkNxg8wDOfb8tpr9KJgggpPP81KOBIIPwlrXa1aK UQnOyT22q73QA== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.95]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CRkh644DSzDq9j; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:21:58 +0100 (CET) From: To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" , Alissa Cooper , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWsxXGVBIfMOdR1UGnQ1BzvVOnb6m5F6aAgABe3vKAAAuRMA== Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 13:21:57 +0000 Message-ID: <20797_1604582518_5FA3FC76_20797_64_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031570A6F@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160454087758.25747.10885671637453991519@ietfa.amsl.com>, <15563_1604558584_5FA39EF8_15563_480_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031570516@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031570A6FOPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 13:22:03 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031570A6FOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Deborah, I fully agree with your observation. This is why: =B7 We designed it as an opaque identifier and avoided to associate= any visible structure with it. =B7 The structure to parse the identifier is communicated via the c= ontrol plane to entitled nodes to manipulated the metadata. =B7 We inherited the security and privacy considerations from RFC83= 00. We don't relax or nullify them. As you can read in https://github.com/boucadair/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid/bl= ob/master/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12.txt, I updated the text to re-= insist on the considerations from 8300: o Subscriber Identifier: Carries an opaque local identifier that is assigned to a subscriber by a network operator. For example, this identifier can be generated from some of the information that is already conveyed in the original packets from a host (e.g., internal IP address) or other information that is collected from various sources within an SFC-enabled domain (e.g., line identifier). The use of indirect and non-persistent identification is RECOMMENDED. Aligned with Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], this identifier SHOULD be obfuscated. We used "subscriber identifier" as this is an input to provide per-subscrib= er policy in many of the SFs in the network. We would use a more generic te= rm and thus scope but that would put additional constraints on the control = plane and SFs, but worse wouldn't be addressing a need. FWIW, current pract= ices are discussed here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-s= fc-use-case-mobility-09#section-3.3. Rather than pointing to RFC8300 as we initially did, we added NEW text to f= urther insist on the following: =B7 Obfuscation is recommended =B7 Secure transport must be used =B7 SF-to-SF encryption can be used to avoid compromised SFFs. Thank you. Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A Envoy=E9 : jeudi 5 novembre 2020 13:44 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN ; Alissa Coop= er ; The IESG Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky ; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org Objet : Re: [sfc] Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-heade= r-12: (with COMMENT) Hi Med, On my ballot, I had entered a comment, I was also confused by this naming "= subscriber" as it does raise many privacy concerns (as other ADs are commen= ting). Whenever this language is used, a complex level of treatment is requ= ired as all operators are very aware - in transit or persistent. And usuall= y at higher level application exchange protocols. Below you say it is "opaque" - can you clarify? I was thinking this was mor= e an operator defined/user data field. Why the need to be so specific to sa= y this is identifying a specific subscriber? Why not make it more general -= and a more general applicability? Thanks, Deborah ________________________________ From: iesg > on behalf = of mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:43:03 AM To: Alissa Cooper >; The IESG <= iesg@ietf.org> Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org >; Greg Mirsky >; sfc-chairs@ietf.org >; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12:= (with COMMENT) Hi Alissa, Please inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Alissa Cooper via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 5 novembre 2020 02:48 > =C0 : The IESG > > Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; > sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky >; > gregimirsky@gmail.com > Objet : Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header- > 12: (with COMMENT) > > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Abstain > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to > all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to > cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/iesg/sta= tement/discuss-__;!!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9RJLRO= ETfuOoFLu1s8c$ > criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-s= fc-serviceid-header/__;!!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9= RJLROETfuOo1TWqp5o$ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > COMMENT: > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > I support Benjamin's DISCUSS. > > The privacy properties of the mechanism specified in this document > do not comport with the recommendations in RFC 8165 or RFC 6973. The > document makes no normative recommendations to minimize the > identifiability or linkability of the information in the context > header. [Med] We do have normative language, but indirectly through the reference t= o RFC8300. "subscriber-identifying information ... SHOULD be obfuscated." As suggested by Ben, we added a note to explicitly remind that behaviour. W= e don't use the normative language again as this is not a new reco but a re= minder: "As discussed in Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], subscriber-identifying information should be obfuscated." It specifies no normative transport or object encryption, > which RFC 8300 conditionally requires (as does RFC 8371 for similar > identifiers). (Furthermore, although this documents says the context > header should only be used within an administrative domain, RFC 8300 > allows for NSH to be used across administrative boundaries if I > understand correctly.) [Med] Hmm ... RFC 8300, Section 1.1 says explicitly the following: "The intended scope of the NSH is for use within a single provider's operational domain. This deployment scope is deliberately constrained, as explained also in [RFC7665], and limited to a single network administrative domain." The document does not suggest best practices > for minimizing the persistence or uniqueness of the identifiers > conveyed when circumstances allow it. [Med] No sure about the uniqueness part, but for the persistence, we added = this NEW text: "If encryption is not enabled, the use of non persistent identifiers as well as the removal of the Subscriber Identifier Context Headers from the NSH by the last SF making use of such headers soften this issue. " As Ben noted, many functions > performed by SFs don't need to be aware of actual subscriber > identifiers that have some other purpose in the network (IP address, > mobile network identifiers, etc.). [Med] Those will just see opaque data. Also, the data will be striped as so= on as it is not needed by downstream SFs. > > For other protocols that convey unique subscriber identifiers, even > protocols that are not end-to-end like DHCP, the IETF has specified > detailed guidance to minimize the privacy impact of exposing these > identifiers. See, e.g., RFC 7844 and RFC 8064/7721. [Med] I'm very familiar with the examples you cited, but they are all invol= ving multiple administrative domains or are visible on the Internet. Our id= entifiers are opaque and can't be leaked by design. That level of > analysis and guidance is what I would expect for this specification. > I suspect that is an unpopular view, though, so I'm abstaining. > ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031570A6FOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Deborah,

 

I fu= lly agree with your observation. This is why:

=B7         We designed it as an opaque identifier and avoided to associate any vis= ible structure with it.

=B7         The structure to parse the identifier is communicated via the control p= lane to entitled nodes to manipulated the metadata.

=B7         We inherited the security and privacy considerations from RFC8300. We d= on’t relax or nullify them.

 

As y= ou can read in https://github.com/boucadair/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid/blob/master/draft-iet= f-sfc-serviceid-header-12.txt, I updated the text to re-insist on the c= onsiderations from 8300:

 

&nbs= p;  o  Subscriber Identifier: Carries an opaque local identifier = that is

&nbs= p;     assigned to a subscriber by a network operator.<= o:p>

 

&nbs= p;     For example, this identifier can be generated fr= om some of the

&nbs= p;     information that is already conveyed in the orig= inal packets from

&nbs= p;     a host (e.g., internal IP address) or other info= rmation that is

&nbs= p;     collected from various sources within an SFC-ena= bled domain (e.g.,

&nbs= p;     line identifier).  The use of indirect and = non-persistent

&nbs= p;     identification is RECOMMENDED.=

 

&nbs= p;     Aligned with Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], this id= entifier SHOULD be

&nbs= p;     obfuscated.

 

We u= sed “subscriber identifier” as this is an input to provide per-= subscriber policy in many of the SFs in the network. We would use a more generic term and thus scope but that would put additional const= raints on the control plane and SFs, but worse wouldn’t be addressing= a need. FWIW, current practices are discussed here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-use-case-mobility-09#s= ection-3.3.

 

Rath= er than pointing to RFC8300 as we initially did, we added NEW text to furth= er insist on the following:

=B7         Obfuscation is recommended

=B7         Secure transport must be used

=B7         SF-to-SF encryption can be used to avoid compromised SFFs.

 

Than= k you.

 

Chee= rs,

Med<= o:p>

 

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ie= tf.org] De la part de BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 5 novembre 2020 13:44
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <mohamed.boucadair@orange.co= m>; Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org&= gt;
Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky <= gregimirsky@gmail.com>; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [sfc] Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-ser= viceid-header-12: (with COMMENT)

 

Hi Med,

 

On my ballot, I had entered a comment, I was also co= nfused by this naming “subscriber” as it does raise many privac= y concerns (as other ADs are commenting). Whenever this language is used, a= complex level of treatment is required as all operators are very aware - in transit or persistent. And usually at higher= level application exchange protocols.

 

Below you say it is “opaque” - can you c= larify? I was thinking this was more an operator defined/user data field. W= hy the need to be so specific to say this is identifying a specific subscri= ber? Why not make it more general - and a more general applicability?

 

Thanks,

Deborah

 

From: iesg &= lt;iesg-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of mohamed.bouca= dair@orange.com <moh= amed.boucadair@orange.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:43:03 AM
To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@co= operw.in>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.o= rg>
Cc: draf= t-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org <draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org&= gt;; Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@g= mail.com>; sfc-chairs@ietf.org <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>; sfc@ietf.org <sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-hea= der-12: (with COMMENT)

 

Hi Alissa,

Please inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Alissa Cooper via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 5 novembre 2020 02:48
> =C0 : The IESG <iesg@ietf.org= >
> Cc : = draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org;
> sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>;
> gregimirsky@gmail.com
> Objet : Alissa Cooper's Abstain on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-heade= r-
> 12: (with COMMENT)
>
> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Abstain
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to
> all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to
> cut this introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-__;= !!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9RJLROETfuOoFLu1s8c$
> criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc= -serviceid-header/__;!!BhdT!xUOrSRpYpPQk-xvq9txxnLO-mVcWtETmRzBMvpDGGAlz9RJ= LROETfuOo1TWqp5o$
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --
> COMMENT:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --
>
> I support Benjamin's DISCUSS.
>
> The privacy properties of the mechanism specified in this document
> do not comport with the recommendations in RFC 8165 or RFC 6973. The > document makes no normative recommendations to minimize the
> identifiability or linkability of the information in the context
> header.

[Med] We do have normative language, but indirectly through the reference t= o RFC8300.

     "subscriber-identifying information ... SHOUL= D be obfuscated."

As suggested by Ben, we added a note to explicitly remind that behaviour. W= e don't use the normative language again as this is not a new reco but a re= minder:

   "As
   discussed in Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], subscriber-identifyin= g
   information should be obfuscated."

 It specifies no normative transport or object encryption,
> which RFC 8300 conditionally requires (as does RFC 8371 for similar
> identifiers). (Furthermore, although this documents says the context > header should only be used within an administrative domain, RFC 8300 > allows for NSH to be used across administrative boundaries if I
> understand correctly.)

[Med] Hmm ... RFC 8300, Section 1.1 says explicitly the following:

   "The intended scope of the NSH is for use within a single= provider's
   operational domain.  This deployment scope is deliberatel= y
   constrained, as explained also in [RFC7665], and limited to a = single
   network administrative domain."

 The document does not suggest best practices
> for minimizing the persistence or uniqueness of the identifiers
> conveyed when circumstances allow it.

[Med] No sure about the uniqueness part, but for the persistence, we added = this NEW text:

   "If encryption is not
   enabled, the use of non persistent identifiers as well as the = removal
   of the Subscriber Identifier Context Headers from the NSH by t= he last
   SF making use of such headers soften this issue. "

 As Ben noted, many functions
> performed by SFs don't need to be aware of actual subscriber
> identifiers that have some other purpose in the network (IP address, > mobile network identifiers, etc.).

[Med] Those will just see opaque data. Also, the data will be striped as so= on as it is not needed by downstream SFs.

>
> For other protocols that convey unique subscriber identifiers, even
> protocols that are not end-to-end like DHCP, the IETF has specified
> detailed guidance to minimize the privacy impact of exposing these
> identifiers. See, e.g., RFC 7844 and RFC 8064/7721.

[Med] I'm very familiar with the examples you cited, but they are all invol= ving multiple administrative domains or are visible on the Internet. Our id= entifiers are opaque and can't be leaked by design. 

 That level of
> analysis and guidance is what I would expect for this specification. > I suspect that is an unpopular view, though, so I'm abstaining.
>

___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031570A6FOPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Thu Nov 5 05:54:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525273A1185; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 05:54:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, Greg Mirsky , gregimirsky@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <160458448685.11723.3493618014195985623@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 05:54:47 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 13:54:48 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no framework or guidance to reason about or mitigate the security and privacy risks of embedding sensitive, user identifying information into the network. The document does fairly note that the other SFC headers also don’t have protection mechanisms either, but they do not enable use identification or tracking. During response to IESG ballots prior to mine, two related points were made: ** Using draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-00 to mitigate risks – this might help, but the maturity of this document would suggest that additional discussion is required before it could be evaluated as a solution. ** surveillance as a use case (lawful intercept as an SFC [2]) – reinforces why a privacy framework is needed (RFC6973 and 8165 are helpful references here) [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/24Q52inJTpacY1HOlCHU8VTUkIw/ [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/Knc9goUyEjiMLWHmf0K-NbHTpC8/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Ben Kaduk’s DISCUSS position. From nobody Thu Nov 5 14:39:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BAE3A005F; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:39:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bt066MkqV4sa; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 969E43A005D; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0A5Mdcei025026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 5 Nov 2020 17:39:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:39:38 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Message-ID: <20201105223938.GA39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> <28389_1604482785_5FA276E1_28389_92_3_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156F9F0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <28389_1604482785_5FA276E1_28389_92_3_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156F9F0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 22:39:51 -0000 Hi Med, Also inline (though not too much left to say)... On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 09:39:44AM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Thanks for the detailed review. > > Starting with the "COMMENT" part. The DISCUSS will be in a separate message. > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > Envoyé : mercredi 4 novembre 2020 05:37 > > À : The IESG > > Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; > > sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky ; > > gregimirsky@gmail.com > > Objet : Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header- > > 12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > [...] > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > COMMENT: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > > I am preparing a significant number of (hopefully) editorial > > suggestions in a local copy of the XML source; I plan to send that > > as a diff to the authors as a response to the ballot mail. > > > > [Med] Thanks. Already fixed in the local copy. > > > Section 1 > > > > This document does not make any assumption about the structure of > > subscriber or performance policy identifiers; each such > > identifier is > > treated as an opaque value. The semantics and validation of > > these > > identifiers are policies local to an SFC-enabled domain. This > > document focuses on the data plane behaviour. Control plane > > considerations are out of the scope. > > > > (Control plane considerations probably touch on the privacy > > properties of the system as a whole, but I think I understand the > > point being made > > here.) > > [Med] ACK. > > > > > Section 3 > > > > The classifier and NSH-aware SFs MAY inject or strip a Subscriber > > Identifier Context Header as a function of a local policy. In > > order > > to prevent interoperability issues, the type and format of the > > identifiers to be injected in a Subscriber Identifier Context > > Header > > should be configured to nodes authorized to inject and consume > > such > > headers. [...] > > > > I think this is more of a "needs to" rather than a "should". > > [Med] "Should" is used to accommodate deployments where "default format" are mandated by design (or RFPs). So then it is "configured" as part of the design? ;) > > > > For example, a node can be instructed to insert such > > data > > following a type/set scheme (e.g., node X should inject > > subscriber ID > > type Y). Other schemes may be envisaged. > > > > Just to check my understanding, the fact that it was node X that > > injected a given subscriber ID context header is determined from the > > SPI, since the SPI uniquely identifies the SFP? > > [Med] Yes. > > > > > Failures to inject such headers should be logged locally while a > > notification alarm may be sent to a Control Element. The details > > of > > sending notification alarms (i.e., the parameters affecting the > > transmission of the notification alarms depend on the information > > in > > the Context Header such as frequency, thresholds, and content of > > the > > alarm (full header, timestamp, etc.)) should be configurable. > > > > While this is purely an editorial remark (and I will be including a > > proposal in my editorial diff), I did want to note that I can't > > actually parse how the (outer) parenthetical is supposed to apply, > > and expect that my suggestion is going to change the meaning > > somehow. > > [Med] Reading your proposed edit, I confirm that you got it well. > > > > > This document adheres to the recommendations in [RFC8300] for > > handling the Context Headers at both ingress and egress SFC > > boundary > > nodes (i.e., to strip such Context Headers). Revealing any > > personal > > and subscriber-related information to third parties is avoided by > > design to prevent privacy breaches in terms of user tracking. > > > > I think s/third parties/parties outside the administrative domain/ > > may be more accurate. > > [Med] Went with "parties outside the SFC-enabled domain". > > > > > I would also end the last sentence after "design" and split the > > remaining portion into a new sentence: "Accordingly, the scope for > > privacy breaches and user tracking is limited to within the > > administrative domain where the NSH is used". > > [Med] OK. > > > > > if the NSH-aware SF is instructed to do so. For example, an SF > > that > > expects an internal IP address as subscriber identifier will > > discard > > Subscriber Identifier Context Headers conveying Mobile Subscriber > > ISDN Number (MSISDN), International Mobile Subscriber Identity > > (IMSI), or malformed IP addresses. > > > > There's a little bit of cognitive dissonance here in that we say > > that the content of the context header is opaque, yet are giving a > > list of things that would involve peeking inside that opacity (and > > possibly some additional structure to identify the type). (No > > specific action requested here, just making an observation.) > > [Med] These examples make it easy to understand why we allow for more IDs in the same message. It is less evident with abstract examples. > > > > > Section 4 > > > > instance selection, or policy selection at SFs. Note that the > > use of > > the Performance Policy Identifier is not helpful if the path > > computation is centralized and a strict SFP is presented as local > > policy to SF Forwarders (SFFs). > > > > I'm not sure I understand why this is the case; wouldn't the > > performance policy information still be useful for, e.g., not > > dropping UHR packets when buffers are full, regardless of whether > > the SFP is strict or not? > > [Med] The text is about path computation and selection. > > We are not using for marking because otherwise we will have the "usual" comments why not using flow lable, dscp marking, etc. Ah, it sounds like I was misunderstanding things originally. Based you your explanation here, it seems like the policy information is only intended to be used in path computation/selection, but it needs to be conveyed in the NSH because there is opportunity for reclassification along the SFP (and, IIRC, cases where the SFP is not fully specified at classification time and a local SFF makes a choice on a per-packet basis), which would still need the policy information as input. The particular local behaviors such as preferred processing for ULL or UHR are controlled by the normal mechanisms for doing so, e.g., DSCP. Is that right? So the quoted statement that I was confused by is in effect saying that "if there is only ever one classification action and it fully specifies all possible choices for the path of the packet, then these context headers are not needed anymore"? > > > > performance, or proximity considerations. For the particular > > case of > > UHR services, the stand-by operation of back-up capacity or the > > deployment of multiple SF instances may be requested. > > > > I'm not sure that I understand how a per-packet header would request > > *deployment* of multiple instances. Perhaps the intent is to say > > that the presence of multiple instances is requested? (Or perhaps I > > misunderstand, of course.) > > [Med] I let this one to Dirk :-) > > > > > In an environment characterised by frequent changes of link and > > path > > behaviour, for example due to variable load or availability > > caused by > > propagation conditions on a wireless link, the SFP may have to be > > adapted dynamically by on-the-move SFC path and SF instance > > selection. > > > > (Is "on-the-move selection" a new term here? I kind of thought we > > had used a different term to describe this type of behavior in a > > previous document, but couldn't find it quickly.) > > > > Multiple Performance Policy Identifier Context Headers MAY be > > present > > in the NSH, each carrying an opaque value for a distinct policy > > that > > need to be enforced for a flow. Supplying conflicting policies > > may > > complicate the SFP computation and SF instance location. > > Corresponding rules to detect conflicting policies may be > > provided as > > a local policy to the NSH-aware nodes. When such conflict is > > detected by an NSH-aware node, the default behavior of the node > > is to > > discard the packet and send a notification alarm to a Control > > Element. > > > > [It seems like we are providing guidance on the "default behavior" > > of something that is entirely dependent on there being some local > > policy, which is perhaps an unusual thing to do. I don't object to > > it, per se, though.] > > > > Section 6 > > > > When we recommend logging on exception conditions, we typically also > > include a note about the risk of DoS due to log spew. > > [Med] Added this NEW: > > "Some events are logged locally with notification alerts sent by NSH-aware nodes to a Control Element. These events SHOULD be rate limited. " Thanks. > > > > With respect to privacy considerations, whenever we have multiple > > Subscriber Identifier Context Headers present we are providing the > > information that thos different (types of) identifiers identify the > > same subscriber or individual. This can be used to correlate other > > observations and track that individual more effectively. > > [Med] Fair point. Added this NEW text: > > "The presence of multiple Subscriber Identifier Context Headers in the same NSH allows a misbehaving node from within the SFC-enabled domain to bind these identifiers to the same subscriber. This can be used to track that subscriber more effectively." > > > > > If one was able to spoof a performance policy identification context > > header one would be in a position to steal (quality of) service, > > which is related to the "service disruption" attack already > > discussed in the text, but IMO distinct from it. > > [Med] "disruption" is used from an operator standpoint: deliver the service to the appropriate subscriber and appropriate quality level. > > > > > trusted ([RFC8300]). Means to check that only authorized nodes > > are > > solicited when a packet is crossing an SFC-enabled domain are out > > of > > scope of this document. > > > > I'm not entirely sure that I understand what "solicited" is being > > used for, here. Is it something to do with the source/destination > > (ouside the SFC domain) of the packet, or the nodes on the path > > within the SFC domain, or something else? > > > [Med] We meant that nodes that are "visited"/"invoked" as the packet progresses in the SFP within a domain. > > > > > Section 8.2 > > > > [RFC8459] seems to be unused. > > > > [Med] Used to be cited in previous version. Fixed. Thanks for the updates! -Ben From nobody Thu Nov 5 21:51:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E5363A0D93; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 21:51:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SHCYTxrBvhbK; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 21:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 464D13A0D8E; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 21:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CS8dc5jKVz8svR; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 06:51:16 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604641876; bh=BE0ypLtXF6gC2IpFOrd/bm8LEusiRoxq385DtgAPlN4=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=R64SWOLNGhT7eaaWHbwL70TZIFsgYohmUKWdX/M16PIPXFGs4pHOVkrtcQbWHITt2 M4FqlHybkZ6LDJLBJeFKvMDY9KGfy2Ertnyu6M6RlyafQkAfwbPogLTIC+zqayZpLI uauJD3P8W7S8nozK5ykqVdwvv9qzHFXZtrDKfstiFjDv6o31NosEX0iMKM/94dwAHC I6D0tgMyWX8q6ksRTZpWV8DyDWFLagKtd4+BMg7hffTiOzUJob2ShVRauAaNQJ5clr 214svYnUHdeLDkYnLNvw8pUCfAf8AbyB3LkvK3Jp+tzCHWgJaE/E+Rs00mOvbId8ex vJYlbHzQFR7rA== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.92]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CS8dc4GGfz1xqX; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 06:51:16 +0100 (CET) From: To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWs8SUQ44xUIGB/kiy1IknJt9eF6m6lcRA Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 05:51:15 +0000 Message-ID: <29126_1604641876_5FA4E454_29126_17_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031572389@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> <28389_1604482785_5FA276E1_28389_92_3_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156F9F0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20201105223938.GA39170@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20201105223938.GA39170@kduck.mit.edu> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 05:51:21 -0000 Hi Ben,=20 > So the quoted statement that I was confused > by is in effect saying that "if there is only ever one > classification action and it fully specifies all possible choices > for the path of the packet, then these context headers are not > needed anymore"? I confirm.=20 Will see if/how to tweak it better as you were confused.=20=20 Thanks.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 5 novembre 2020 23:40 > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > Cc=A0: The IESG ; draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid- > header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky > > Objet=A0: Re: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid- > header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > Hi Med, >=20 > Also inline (though not too much left to say)... >=20 ... > > > > > > > > Section 4 > > > > > > instance selection, or policy selection at SFs. Note that > the > > > use of > > > the Performance Policy Identifier is not helpful if the path > > > computation is centralized and a strict SFP is presented as > local > > > policy to SF Forwarders (SFFs). > > > > > > I'm not sure I understand why this is the case; wouldn't the > > > performance policy information still be useful for, e.g., not > > > dropping UHR packets when buffers are full, regardless of > whether > > > the SFP is strict or not? > > > > [Med] The text is about path computation and selection. > > > > We are not using for marking because otherwise we will have the > "usual" comments why not using flow lable, dscp marking, etc. >=20 > Ah, it sounds like I was misunderstanding things originally. Based > you your explanation here, it seems like the policy information is > only intended to be used in path computation/selection, but it needs > to be conveyed in the NSH because there is opportunity for > reclassification along the SFP (and, IIRC, cases where the SFP is > not fully specified at classification time and a local SFF makes a > choice on a per-packet basis), which would still need the policy > information as input. > The particular local behaviors such as preferred processing for ULL > or UHR are controlled by the normal mechanisms for doing so, e.g., > DSCP. Is that right? So the quoted statement that I was confused > by is in effect saying that "if there is only ever one > classification action and it fully specifies all possible choices > for the path of the packet, then these context headers are not > needed anymore"? >=20 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Fri Nov 6 12:15:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BFD3A0C8B; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 12:15:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SvbKfhJwKUKs; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 12:15:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D12B13A0C82; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 12:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0A6KFUku014949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 6 Nov 2020 15:15:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 12:15:30 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky Message-ID: <20201106201530.GI39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> <3869_1604486007_5FA28377_3869_203_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FA8C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3869_1604486007_5FA28377_3869_203_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FA8C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 20:15:43 -0000 Hi Med, Thanks for another quick turnaround. (Inline.) On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 10:33:26AM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Re-, > > Focusing on the DISCUSS. > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > Envoyé : mercredi 4 novembre 2020 05:37 > > À : The IESG > > Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; > > sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky ; > > gregimirsky@gmail.com > > Objet : Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header- > > 12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to > > all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to > > cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss- > > criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > DISCUSS: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > > Retaining my original Discuss position (without the "early warning" > > note), as it is the one that was supported by Martin D and Alvaro: > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > This document defines (among other things) a mechanism for carrying > > subscriber information in an NSH. RFC 8300 (NSH) notes both that: > > > > Metadata privacy and > > security considerations are a matter for the documents that > > define > > metadata format. > > > > and that: > > > > One useful element of providing privacy protection for > > sensitive > > metadata is described under the "SFC Encapsulation" area of > > the > > Security Considerations of [RFC7665]. Operators can and > > should > > use indirect identification for metadata deemed to be > > sensitive > > (such as personally identifying information), significantly > > mitigating the risk of a privacy violation. In particular, > > subscriber-identifying information should be handled > > carefully, > > and, in general, SHOULD be obfuscated. > > > > On the other hand, this document in its security considerations > > claims > > that: > > > > Data plane SFC-related security considerations, including > > privacy, > > are discussed in [RFC7665] and [RFC8300]. > > > > and does not seem to incorporate any discussion of the privacy and > > security considerations of the subscriber information metadata > > carried by the new format it conveys. Yes, it does note that all > > nodes with access to the information are part of the same trusted > > domain, but I do not think that is sufficient, especially given that > > personally identifiable information is often subject to strict > > compliance regimes. > > > > In short, 8300 and this document are referring to each other for > > privacy considerations, and the actual privacy considerations do not > > seem to be documented in either place. > > > > Additionally, I did not see any indication of how the subscriber- > > identifying information ought to be obfuscated (or an explanation of > > why it is okay to violate the SHOULD from 8300). > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > > > To record some additional synthesis of the above (original) remark > > with my more thorough reading of the document: we are defining > > containers specifically to contain subscriber and performance policy > > identifiers/information. While the specific contents are out of > > scope for this document, we still are obligated to describe the > > general classes of issues that can arise due to conveying those > > types of information within a SFC domain. We should also give > > guidance on how to populate the contents of these context headers in > > a secure and privacy-supporting manner, including the use of > > indirect identification and obfuscation/encryption. > > [Med] I made the following changes: > * Reiterate the reco to use obfuscated as this may be missed in the "one" pointer to the Security section of 8300. > * Add a new text for the use of non-persistent identifiers as well as instructing SFs to remove the header early in the SFP. > * Add new text to illustrate that the nature of SFs in a chain and a subscriber ID may be a privacy violation. > * Add text to point to the NSH encryption when obfuscation is not sufficient. > > The full text can be seen in: https://tinyurl.com/sfc-service-iesg. Thanks, this is improving. Some notes: Aligned with Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], this identifier SHOULD be obfuscated. Maybe % While this document does not specify an internal structure for these % identifiers, it also does not provide any cryptographic protection for % them; any internal structure to the identifier values chosen will thus be % visible on the wire. Accordingly, in alignment with Section 8.2.2 of % [RFC8300], identifier values SHOULD be obfsucated. though I would be receptive to claims that this is hitting the reader over the head too much or too redundant with the new security considerations text. headers (e.g., IP addresses). If no secure transport encapsulation is enabled, the use of trivial subscriber identifier structures together with the presence of specific SFs in a service function chain may reveal sensitive information to every on-path device (but also to teams managing these devices). [...] I think the concerns are greater when combining the presence of specific SFs with a given identifier, but there are considerations just from having the unprotected identifier present on its own. Typically we would cover these baseline considerations for "having this information at all" first, and then go on to talk about additional considerations in more complicated scenarios. (I can't quite tell if some of the following text is intended to cover this "baseline" scenario or not.) headers for its operation. As discussed in Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], subscriber-identifying information should be obfuscated and security features in the transport encapsulation protocol (such as IPsec) must be used. A mechanism for encrypting sensitive NSH AFAICT the "must be used" is referring to this chunk from 8300: % Protecting NSH metadata information between SFC components can be % done using transport encapsulation protocols with suitable % security capabilities, along the lines discussed above. If a % security analysis deems these protections necessary, then security % features in the transport encapsulation protocol (such as IPsec) % MUST be used. which is a conditional "MUST", and I'm not sure the text proposed here catches that nuance. > > > > Futhermore (and this part is not a discuss point but may lead to me > > switching my position to Abstain once the discusses are resolved), I > > have some misgivings about including subscriber identification > > information at all, and would prefer if it could instead be > > translated into the relevant policy information element(s) needed by > > the SFP in question before being applied to the NSH. For example, > > rather than saying "this packet is from user X" we could say "this > > packet is part of quota bucket ABC (with bucket size Z) for time > > period Y" to enforce per-user quota. > > [Med] Putting aside how the quota usage can be conveyed in a policy instead of a subscriber id, the issue Ben is that a per-subscriber policy is not only about a quota. There are bunch of SFs that are making use of the subscriber identifier (e.g., implicit identification to portal, control the number of devices of a subscriber accessing to a service). The identity of the subscriber is also needed for various reasons (legal data retention). Of course it's not just for the quota, yes -- quota is just an easy example that fits very nicely into my point (as opposed to some of the other examples you list, which do not fit so well) :) On the other hand, "apply resource quota" is the only listed example at present, so there might be cause to add a few more examples to that list. I recognize that in some cases the raw subscriber ID is the most effective tool to use, but I am hoping that the document can also mentionn other alternatives that can apply in other cases and are compatible with the principle of least privilege. We cannot tell people how to run their networks, of course, but we can list some options and why/when they might be advantageous. > As we designed the subscriber id without requiring any specific internal structure, innovation among the lines you are suggesting are not excluded. > > With draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header, we do solve many many privacy issues that are encountered in current deployments with header enrichment practices (MISDN leaks, etc.). (I did see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-use-case-mobility-09#section-3.3 and was surprised at HTTP header field insertion still being viable in this https-everywhere world!) > While in this case the > > identifier would still ultimately lead back to an individual, the > > identifier would be rotated periodically, and it is possible to > > achieve some level of de-linkability as records age out (depending > > on how the "ABC" is generated, of course). > > I do recognize that even for non-quota use cases where a user is > > part of multiple distinct policy groups, the combination of those > > groups might still identify only a small anonymity set, but the > > overall privacy properties of such a design seem superior than > > consistent use of a persistent identifier or identifiers, in > > aggregate. > > > > I have an additional Discuss point after doing a more thorough > > review of the document -- I think there's a (minor) internal > > inconsistency within Section 3: > > > > Intermediary NSH-aware nodes have to preserve Subscriber > > Identifier > > Context Headers (i.e., the information can be passed to next hop > > NSH- > > aware nodes), but local policy may require an intermediary NSH- > > aware > > node to strip a Subscriber Identifier Context Header after > > processing > > it. > > > > since it seems to say that NSH-aware intermediary nodes both "have > > to preserve" and "may strip" a Service Identifier Context Header. > > [Med] The default behavior is to preserve the context header when present, but the node may strip it if it is instructed to do so. Ah, that should be an easy text change, then. Thanks, Ben > > Similar language is used to describe the Performance Policy > > Identifier Context Header, in Section 4, which would presumably > > receive a similar modification to the Subscriber Identifier case. > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > From nobody Mon Nov 9 04:42:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F90D3A1044; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 04:42:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iPGou-QabUcR; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 04:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FC8D3A0E24; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 04:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CV9cw6p0qzFpwL; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 13:42:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604925761; bh=Da8g3C09+WsC9pA8l7yenPxlcyXVhdvANOyfoZJ7oC0=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=pkAGcizCMZDNEDzI9iOWGTlTX2LphBTwrdSCFbNWGrlUUsseN1EfE2LjCoeyVuFx2 svEzgG3elIXhny9PdVXUsdZ5y8mpGF2THkiCROtVkXrZgmp2cCKTiN2Ii/jaCIdssM ZI+1qysESYwpW0fDP5xzm48WQ2IILH4mmCT7CEI9McE4xsNyVmNgQWQrNRMCRubH22 +kXr30wLzHVjA0CzwGiyNAUBHmCtU+uIQ1OhI+UWr661fXfr/juZPggJbhUvzn0eqf YhWa+N4tiv3KsBLgI2ZzrU4L93g7n3uHsNDpuIMbQIgMUhMQn+zfFrtIaIjNNqfyKp 4yAtrTaii3SDw== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.73]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CV9cw52PVzCqr4; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 13:42:40 +0100 (CET) From: To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "The IESG" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWtHmgd/J3CgLIokCZ6Fkqmv4sqam/buew Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 12:42:40 +0000 Message-ID: <16598_1604925760_5FA93940_16598_414_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031573AB9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> <3869_1604486007_5FA28377_3869_203_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FA8C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20201106201530.GI39170@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20201106201530.GI39170@kduck.mit.edu> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 12:42:44 -0000 Hi Ben,=20 Please see inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Benjamin Kaduk > Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 6 novembre 2020 21:16 > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > Cc=A0: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky > ; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; The IESG > ; sfc@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc- > serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > Hi Med, >=20 > Thanks for another quick turnaround. > (Inline.) >=20 > On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 10:33:26AM +0000, > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > Re-, > > > > Focusing on the DISCUSS. > > > > Please see inline. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De=A0: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > Envoy=E9 > > > : mercredi 4 novembre 2020 05:37 =C0=A0: The IESG > Cc=A0: > > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; > > > sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky ; > > > gregimirsky@gmail.com Objet=A0: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on > > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header- > > > 12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Discuss > > > ... > > > > > > To record some additional synthesis of the above (original) > remark > > > with my more thorough reading of the document: we are defining > > > containers specifically to contain subscriber and performance > policy > > > identifiers/information. While the specific contents are out of > > > scope for this document, we still are obligated to describe the > > > general classes of issues that can arise due to conveying those > > > types of information within a SFC domain. We should also give > > > guidance on how to populate the contents of these context > headers in > > > a secure and privacy-supporting manner, including the use of > > > indirect identification and obfuscation/encryption. > > > > [Med] I made the following changes: > > * Reiterate the reco to use obfuscated as this may be missed in > the "one" pointer to the Security section of 8300. > > * Add a new text for the use of non-persistent identifiers as well > as instructing SFs to remove the header early in the SFP. > > * Add new text to illustrate that the nature of SFs in a chain and > a subscriber ID may be a privacy violation. > > * Add text to point to the NSH encryption when obfuscation is not > sufficient. > > > > The full text can be seen in: https://tinyurl.com/sfc-service- > iesg. >=20 > Thanks, this is improving. >=20 > Some notes: >=20 >=20 > Aligned with Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], this identifier SHOULD > be > obfuscated. >=20 > Maybe >=20 > % While this document does not specify an internal structure for > these % identifiers, it also does not provide any cryptographic > protection for % them; any internal structure to the identifier > values chosen will thus be % visible on the wire. [Med] s/the wire/the wire if no secure transport encapsulation is used. Accordingly, in > alignment with Section 8.2.2 of % [RFC8300], identifier values > SHOULD be obfsucated. >=20 > though I would be receptive to claims that this is hitting the > reader over the head too much or too redundant with the new security > considerations text. [Med] It is indeed redundant but given the various comments I don't object = to have it mentioned twice so that we (hopefully) avoid confusions.=20=20 >=20 > headers (e.g., IP addresses). If no secure transport > encapsulation > is enabled, the use of trivial subscriber identifier structures > together with the presence of specific SFs in a service function > chain may reveal sensitive information to every on-path device > (but > also to teams managing these devices). [...] >=20 > I think the concerns are greater when combining the presence of > specific SFs with a given identifier, but there are considerations > just from having the unprotected identifier present on its own. > Typically we would cover these baseline considerations for "having > this information at all" first, and then go on to talk about > additional considerations in more complicated scenarios. (I can't > quite tell if some of the following text is intended to cover this > "baseline" scenario or not.) >=20 [Med] Updated and rearranged the text: https://tinyurl.com/sfc-service-iesg= . I hope this is better.=20=20 > headers for its operation. As discussed in Section 8.2.2 of > [RFC8300], subscriber-identifying information should be > obfuscated > and security features in the transport encapsulation protocol > (such > as IPsec) must be used. A mechanism for encrypting sensitive NSH >=20 > AFAICT the "must be used" is referring to this chunk from 8300: >=20 > % Protecting NSH metadata information between SFC components can be > % done using transport encapsulation protocols with suitable % > security capabilities, along the lines discussed above. If a % > security analysis deems these protections necessary, then security % > features in the transport encapsulation protocol (such as IPsec) % > MUST be used. >=20 > which is a conditional "MUST", and I'm not sure the text proposed > here catches that nuance. >=20 [Med] We can add: "if an operator deems cryptographic integrity protection = needed, ". >=20 > > > > > > Futhermore (and this part is not a discuss point but may lead to > me > > > switching my position to Abstain once the discusses are > resolved), I > > > have some misgivings about including subscriber identification > > > information at all, and would prefer if it could instead be > > > translated into the relevant policy information element(s) > needed by > > > the SFP in question before being applied to the NSH. For > example, > > > rather than saying "this packet is from user X" we could say > "this > > > packet is part of quota bucket ABC (with bucket size Z) for time > > > period Y" to enforce per-user quota. > > > > [Med] Putting aside how the quota usage can be conveyed in a > policy instead of a subscriber id, the issue Ben is that a per- > subscriber policy is not only about a quota. There are bunch of SFs > that are making use of the subscriber identifier (e.g., implicit > identification to portal, control the number of devices of a > subscriber accessing to a service). The identity of the subscriber > is also needed for various reasons (legal data retention). >=20 > Of course it's not just for the quota, yes -- quota is just an easy > example that fits very nicely into my point (as opposed to some of > the other examples you list, which do not fit so well) :) On the > other hand, "apply resource quota" is the only listed example at > present, so there might be cause to add a few more examples to that > list. >=20 > I recognize that in some cases the raw subscriber ID is the most > effective tool to use, but I am hoping that the document can also > mentionn other alternatives that can apply in other cases and are > compatible with the principle of least privilege. We cannot tell > people how to run their networks, of course, but we can list some > options and why/when they might be advantageous. [Med] What about? OLD: This subscriber identifier can be used by service functions to enforce per-subscriber policies (e.g., apply resource quota). NEW: The Subscriber Identifier Context Header is used by service functions to enforce per-subscriber policies (e.g., resource quota, customized filtering profile, accounting). To that aim, network operators may rely on identifiers that are generated from those used in legacy deployments (e.g., Section 3.3 of[I-D.ietf-sfc-use-case-mobility]). Alternatively, network operators may use identifiers that are associated with customized policy profiles that are preconfigured on SFs using an out of band mechanism. Such mechanism can be used to rotate the identifiers allowing thus for better unlinkability (Section 3.2 of [RFC6973]). Such alternative methods may be suboptimal (e.g., scalability issues induced by maintaining and processing finer granular profiles) or inadequate to provide some per-subscriber policies. The assessment whether a method for defining a subscriber identifier provides the required functionality and that it is compliant with SFs capabilities with the intended performance levels is deployment specific. ... > > > > > > I have an additional Discuss point after doing a more thorough > > > review of the document -- I think there's a (minor) internal > > > inconsistency within Section 3: > > > > > > Intermediary NSH-aware nodes have to preserve Subscriber > > > Identifier > > > Context Headers (i.e., the information can be passed to next > hop > > > NSH- > > > aware nodes), but local policy may require an intermediary > NSH- > > > aware > > > node to strip a Subscriber Identifier Context Header after > > > processing > > > it. > > > > > > since it seems to say that NSH-aware intermediary nodes both > "have > > > to preserve" and "may strip" a Service Identifier Context > Header. > > > > [Med] The default behavior is to preserve the context header when > present, but the node may strip it if it is instructed to do so. >=20 > Ah, that should be an easy text change, then. >=20 [Med] Updated to:=20 The default behavior of intermediary NSH-aware nodes is to preserve Subscriber Identifier Context Headers (i.e., the information can be passed to next hop NSH-aware nodes), but local policy may require an intermediary NSH-aware node to strip a Subscriber Identifier Context Header after processing it. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. 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by HE1PR0702MB3626.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:7f::32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3541.10; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:16:57 +0000 Received: from HE1PR0702MB3772.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f006:1e1e:83a1:e5d2]) by HE1PR0702MB3772.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f006:1e1e:83a1:e5d2%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3564.021; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:16:56 +0000 From: Magnus Westerlund To: "iesg@ietf.org" , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" CC: "gregimirsky@gmail.com" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) Thread-Index: AQHWssF/CmHQKdCToU+vFzXZfqmpE6m4JhoAgAETaoCABpeBQIAAQYMA Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:16:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160450470734.24291.6996019706264327799@ietfa.amsl.com> 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x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-RtFqvuE1C4cBhKrk4+Ug" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: HE1PR0702MB3772.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: de04e4b4-becc-4e23-a40e-08d884d342fa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Nov 2020 17:16:13.9280 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rJQf7quThusegOCceeOnWVBd1aQjzfimAjBbFpPigAC4DSjap2C642xa9+AzvH9kNfOhnUohG3/KqjGcoI73Im/Kh+R8i98C5e+TC2brRVY= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0702MB3626 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 17:17:16 -0000 --=-RtFqvuE1C4cBhKrk4+Ug Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, I think this looks really good. From my perspective this is sufficient to r= emind people about the issue. I hope the WG participants takes a look at this and provide feedback too as it does introduce new recommendations, altough they align with RFC 8300. Cheers Magnus On Mon, 2020-11-09 at 13:29 +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi Magnus,=20 >=20 > OK to restate it. What about the following: =20 >=20 > =3D=3D > 5. MTU Considerations >=20 > As discussed in Section 5.6 of [RFC7665], the SFC architecture > prescribes that additional information be added to packets to: >=20 > o Identify SFPs: this is typically the NSH Base (Section 2.2 of > [RFC8300]) and Service Path Headers (Section 2.3 of [RFC8300]). >=20 > o Carry metadata such those defined in Sections 3 and 4. >=20 > o Steer the traffic along the SFPs: transport encapsulation. >=20 > This added information increases the size of the packet to be carried > along an SFP. >=20 > Aligned with Section 5 of [RFC8300], it is RECOMMENDED for network > operators to increase the underlying MTU so that NSH traffic is > forwarded within an SFC-enabled domain without fragmentation. The > available underlying MTU should be taken into account by network > operators when providing SFs with the required Context Headers to be > injected per SFP and the size of the data to be carried in these > Context Headers. >=20 > If the underlying MTU cannot be increased to accommodate the NSH > overhead, network operators may rely upon a transport encapsulation > protocol to the required fragmentation handling. The impact of > activating such feature on SFFs should be carefully assessed by > network operators (Section 5.6 of [RFC7665]). >=20 > When dealing with MTU issues, network operators should consider the > limitations of various transport encapsulations such as those > discussed in [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels]. > =3D=3D >=20 > The control plane is not mentioned on purpose as this is out of scope.= =20 >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 5 novembre 2020 09:42 > > =C3=80 : iesg@ietf.org; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > > > > Cc : gregimirsky@gmail.com; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sfc- > > serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org > > Objet : Re: Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid- > > header-12: (with DISCUSS) > >=20 > > On Wed, 2020-11-04 at 16:16 +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > wrote: > > > Hi Magnus, > > >=20 > > > Eric raised a similar comment but I'm afraid that this is not > >=20 > > specific to this > > > spec as we don't have a full visibility on the full set of > >=20 > > metadata that will > > > be included in a service chain. This is a generic consideration > >=20 > > when deploying > > > NSH. This is why we point the reader to Section 5 of RFC8300. > > >=20 > > > As NSH is deployed within a single domain, and that the operator > >=20 > > knows the SFs > > > that will inject these headers (but also other context headers) > >=20 > > and the full > > > set of metadata to be conveyed on a per chain basis, a first reco > >=20 > > in RFC8300 > > > is to increase the MTU. > > >=20 > > > If the MTU can't be increased, the next reco in RFC8300 is to rely > >=20 > > on the > > > fragmentation/reassembly at the transport encapsulation. We can't > >=20 > > call a > > > specific transport encapsulation because this is deployment- > >=20 > > specific. > > >=20 > > > Do you have in mind a specific point that we need to record? Do > >=20 > > you see a > > > value if we add an informative reference to draft-ietf-intarea- > >=20 > > tunnels? > >=20 > > I think you need to be explicit about the issue, especially as it > > might be a > > consideration both in which form of identifiers are used and thus > > their size, as > > well as how many one tries to put on. I think you should state it is > > a > > requirement on the control plane to consider congifuration options > > so that not > > more headers are added than can fit, or the domain operator needs to > > ensure that > > a lower layer transport that support fragmentation is supported. > > intarea-tunnels > > may contribute to context. > >=20 > > Cheers > >=20 > > Magnus >=20 > _________________________________________________________________________= _____ > ___________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce > message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. 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LmrUnDAgjBDSUhi2rN70OB30EAIfkVcjbMKjVWMjerS8O+u2wHp71Y6vRTqf2BpR8rSlUpAVLb/P Sq6nTzIhZP/lvdcB4Ns5yWOiOjxSNbdxdaZOrgfbk8ftESxvq+P9tzFSprqaLP24uLHCFBw7c7gy H3nOxlJtrvl6l6n+Mv33O7jTJhuDF8qqhuGbRCy9tg2tu43rE04tYDcasQF69OfHAolpwjCwnfmS XKN+kJ/Grdi/YAC1jZ9ED1B4JQAAAAAAAA== --=-RtFqvuE1C4cBhKrk4+Ug-- From nobody Mon Nov 9 14:26:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CA43A14A9; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:26:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bmlsFiREO-Z4; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 681B63A1491; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0A9MPtu3031754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:26:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:25:55 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "sfc@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20201109222555.GA39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> <3869_1604486007_5FA28377_3869_203_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FA8C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20201106201530.GI39170@kduck.mit.edu> <16598_1604925760_5FA93940_16598_414_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031573AB9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <16598_1604925760_5FA93940_16598_414_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031573AB9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:26:11 -0000 Hi Med, A few notes on the new security considerations sources within an SFC-enabled domain (e.g., line identifier). As w The structure of the identifiers conveyed in these Context Headers is I'm not sure if the "As w" is spurious or was supposed to have more after it. If no secure transport encapsulation is enabled, the use of trivial subscriber identifier structures together with the presence of specific SFs in a service function chain may reveal sensitive information to every on-path device (but also to teams managing these devices). Such disclosure can be a violation in many jurisdictions (maybe "be a violation of legal requirements"?) because such information should be available to very few network operator personnel. Furthermore, access to subscriber data usually requires specific access privilege levels. To maintain that protection, an SF keeping operational logs should not log the content of a Subscriber and Performance Policy Context Headers unless the SF actually uses the content of these headers for its operation. [...] It's not clear to me that "don't log it" would actually help all the way if it's "having the information available on the node at all is a legal violation" that is problem. If it's only "operator access" that's the problem, then the question of what kind of network capture/visibility processes are available and to which operator personnel, which is probably more detail than we want to get into at this point, so I'm not entirely sure what the best option is. (I'm also not entirely sure if this mechanism would be fit for purpose at all if the legal requirements prohibits "available at all on the node", but maybe that's not actually a relevant requirement.) More inline. On Mon, Nov 09, 2020 at 12:42:40PM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Benjamin Kaduk > > Envoyé : vendredi 6 novembre 2020 21:16 > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > > Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky > > ; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; The IESG > > ; sfc@ietf.org > > Objet : Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc- > > serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Hi Med, > > > > Thanks for another quick turnaround. > > (Inline.) > > > > On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 10:33:26AM +0000, > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > > Re-, > > > > > > Focusing on the DISCUSS. > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > Envoyé > > > > : mercredi 4 novembre 2020 05:37 À : The IESG > > Cc : > > > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org; > > > > sfc@ietf.org; Greg Mirsky ; > > > > gregimirsky@gmail.com Objet : Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on > > > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header- > > > > 12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > > > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > > > draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: Discuss > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > To record some additional synthesis of the above (original) > > remark > > > > with my more thorough reading of the document: we are defining > > > > containers specifically to contain subscriber and performance > > policy > > > > identifiers/information. While the specific contents are out of > > > > scope for this document, we still are obligated to describe the > > > > general classes of issues that can arise due to conveying those > > > > types of information within a SFC domain. We should also give > > > > guidance on how to populate the contents of these context > > headers in > > > > a secure and privacy-supporting manner, including the use of > > > > indirect identification and obfuscation/encryption. > > > > > > [Med] I made the following changes: > > > * Reiterate the reco to use obfuscated as this may be missed in > > the "one" pointer to the Security section of 8300. > > > * Add a new text for the use of non-persistent identifiers as well > > as instructing SFs to remove the header early in the SFP. > > > * Add new text to illustrate that the nature of SFs in a chain and > > a subscriber ID may be a privacy violation. > > > * Add text to point to the NSH encryption when obfuscation is not > > sufficient. > > > > > > The full text can be seen in: https://tinyurl.com/sfc-service- > > iesg. > > > > Thanks, this is improving. > > > > Some notes: > > > > > > Aligned with Section 8.2.2 of [RFC8300], this identifier SHOULD > > be > > obfuscated. > > > > Maybe > > > > % While this document does not specify an internal structure for > > these % identifiers, it also does not provide any cryptographic > > protection for % them; any internal structure to the identifier > > values chosen will thus be % visible on the wire. > > [Med] s/the wire/the wire if no secure transport encapsulation is used. > > Accordingly, in > > alignment with Section 8.2.2 of % [RFC8300], identifier values > > SHOULD be obfsucated. > > > > though I would be receptive to claims that this is hitting the > > reader over the head too much or too redundant with the new security > > considerations text. > > [Med] It is indeed redundant but given the various comments I don't object to have it mentioned twice so that we (hopefully) avoid confusions. > > > > > headers (e.g., IP addresses). If no secure transport > > encapsulation > > is enabled, the use of trivial subscriber identifier structures > > together with the presence of specific SFs in a service function > > chain may reveal sensitive information to every on-path device > > (but > > also to teams managing these devices). [...] > > > > I think the concerns are greater when combining the presence of > > specific SFs with a given identifier, but there are considerations > > just from having the unprotected identifier present on its own. > > Typically we would cover these baseline considerations for "having > > this information at all" first, and then go on to talk about > > additional considerations in more complicated scenarios. (I can't > > quite tell if some of the following text is intended to cover this > > "baseline" scenario or not.) > > > > [Med] Updated and rearranged the text: https://tinyurl.com/sfc-service-iesg. I hope this is better. I think it flows better, thanks. > > headers for its operation. As discussed in Section 8.2.2 of > > [RFC8300], subscriber-identifying information should be > > obfuscated > > and security features in the transport encapsulation protocol > > (such > > as IPsec) must be used. A mechanism for encrypting sensitive NSH > > > > AFAICT the "must be used" is referring to this chunk from 8300: > > > > % Protecting NSH metadata information between SFC components can be > > % done using transport encapsulation protocols with suitable % > > security capabilities, along the lines discussed above. If a % > > security analysis deems these protections necessary, then security % > > features in the transport encapsulation protocol (such as IPsec) % > > MUST be used. > > > > which is a conditional "MUST", and I'm not sure the text proposed > > here catches that nuance. > > > > [Med] We can add: "if an operator deems cryptographic integrity protection needed, ". +1 > > > > > > > > > > Futhermore (and this part is not a discuss point but may lead to > > me > > > > switching my position to Abstain once the discusses are > > resolved), I > > > > have some misgivings about including subscriber identification > > > > information at all, and would prefer if it could instead be > > > > translated into the relevant policy information element(s) > > needed by > > > > the SFP in question before being applied to the NSH. For > > example, > > > > rather than saying "this packet is from user X" we could say > > "this > > > > packet is part of quota bucket ABC (with bucket size Z) for time > > > > period Y" to enforce per-user quota. > > > > > > [Med] Putting aside how the quota usage can be conveyed in a > > policy instead of a subscriber id, the issue Ben is that a per- > > subscriber policy is not only about a quota. There are bunch of SFs > > that are making use of the subscriber identifier (e.g., implicit > > identification to portal, control the number of devices of a > > subscriber accessing to a service). The identity of the subscriber > > is also needed for various reasons (legal data retention). > > > > Of course it's not just for the quota, yes -- quota is just an easy > > example that fits very nicely into my point (as opposed to some of > > the other examples you list, which do not fit so well) :) On the > > other hand, "apply resource quota" is the only listed example at > > present, so there might be cause to add a few more examples to that > > list. > > > > I recognize that in some cases the raw subscriber ID is the most > > effective tool to use, but I am hoping that the document can also > > mentionn other alternatives that can apply in other cases and are > > compatible with the principle of least privilege. We cannot tell > > people how to run their networks, of course, but we can list some > > options and why/when they might be advantageous. > > [Med] What about? > > OLD: > This subscriber identifier can be used by service > functions to enforce per-subscriber policies (e.g., apply resource > quota). > > NEW: > The Subscriber Identifier Context Header is used by service functions > to enforce per-subscriber policies (e.g., resource quota, customized > filtering profile, accounting). To that aim, network operators may > rely on identifiers that are generated from those used in legacy > deployments (e.g., Section 3.3 of[I-D.ietf-sfc-use-case-mobility]). > Alternatively, network operators may use identifiers that are > associated with customized policy profiles that are preconfigured on > SFs using an out of band mechanism. Such mechanism can be used to > rotate the identifiers allowing thus for better unlinkability > (Section 3.2 of [RFC6973]). Such alternative methods may be > suboptimal (e.g., scalability issues induced by maintaining and > processing finer granular profiles) or inadequate to provide some > per-subscriber policies. The assessment whether a method for > defining a subscriber identifier provides the required functionality > and that it is compliant with SFs capabilities with the intended > performance levels is deployment specific. > ... Very nice! > > > > > > > > I have an additional Discuss point after doing a more thorough > > > > review of the document -- I think there's a (minor) internal > > > > inconsistency within Section 3: > > > > > > > > Intermediary NSH-aware nodes have to preserve Subscriber > > > > Identifier > > > > Context Headers (i.e., the information can be passed to next > > hop > > > > NSH- > > > > aware nodes), but local policy may require an intermediary > > NSH- > > > > aware > > > > node to strip a Subscriber Identifier Context Header after > > > > processing > > > > it. > > > > > > > > since it seems to say that NSH-aware intermediary nodes both > > "have > > > > to preserve" and "may strip" a Service Identifier Context > > Header. > > > > > > [Med] The default behavior is to preserve the context header when > > present, but the node may strip it if it is instructed to do so. > > > > Ah, that should be an easy text change, then. > > > > [Med] Updated to: > > The default behavior of intermediary NSH-aware nodes is to preserve > Subscriber Identifier Context Headers (i.e., the information can be > passed to next hop NSH-aware nodes), but local policy may require an > intermediary NSH-aware node to strip a Subscriber Identifier Context > Header after processing it. +1 Thanks again for the updates, Ben From nobody Mon Nov 9 21:51:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81033A0112; 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Tue, 10 Nov 2020 06:51:06 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1604987466; bh=amuOEbj2QgEuGi96h0EtfiU6vteeH4n45XeYSGqeEv0=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=kKJgTZd5JvqHiZhRUjNKcFh6ibqclLeZ8XglJgFMyytmNFBkbbqPlQdmJAVA+rxUJ WldqccV+ugNcvPkNcFUSsjGW7hBTGw6O1HyxQJpPu6udQXQzn0EUdcxgeB2tJisPtc TrxWxPBoumSKsSTBDNGP+55BczzsqZb6yiwceeLqYZFrg3aTPCtFH7fgnHaw4wGHcM c9t6aBZ/w+iSywOrtekfrBeVmuohGGSZsuABTQi4e2x3Bs8tm7ZNLutXXnfC7USPcI Sd5JVETlEp2LAfQRUCfb+zjlS29pFDSR6SGSaLauzGH3053LWgcawIAc1mxU4a99Qw ksMwWNxW6xFoQ== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.98]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CVcRZ3nLVzFpl0; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 06:51:06 +0100 (CET) From: To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org" , Greg Mirsky , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" , "The IESG" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWtudbf7lbSYoDjEm8C0H2F7eGw6nA2NsQ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 05:51:05 +0000 Message-ID: <4778_1604987466_5FAA2A4A_4778_334_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330315744E6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160446460674.32614.15877665689972040502@ietfa.amsl.com> <3869_1604486007_5FA28377_3869_203_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303156FA8C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20201106201530.GI39170@kduck.mit.edu> <16598_1604925760_5FA93940_16598_414_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933031573AB9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20201109222555.GA39170@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20201109222555.GA39170@kduck.mit.edu> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 05:51:10 -0000 Hi Ben,=20 Thank you for checking. Fixed the nit.=20 Focusing on this last one:=20 >=20 > because such information should be available to very few network > operator personnel. Furthermore, access to subscriber data > usually > requires specific access privilege levels. To maintain that > protection, an SF keeping operational logs should not log the > content > of a Subscriber and Performance Policy Context Headers unless the > SF > actually uses the content of these headers for its operation. > [...] >=20 > It's not clear to me that "don't log it" would actually help all the > way if it's "having the information available on the node at all is > a legal violation" that is problem. If it's only "operator access" > that's the problem [Med] Yes.=20=20 , then the question of what kind of network > capture/visibility processes are available and to which operator > personnel, which is probably more detail than we want to get into at > this point [Med] Agree. The key message here for operators is to carefully check the a= ccess levels and avoid that some of the access rules are bypassed.=20 , so I'm not entirely sure what the best option is. (I'm > also not entirely sure if this mechanism would be fit for purpose at > all if the legal requirements prohibits "available at all on the > node", but maybe that's not actually a relevant requirement.) >=20 [Med] The requirement is to control who can access the information, not the= availability on a given node.=20=20 Cheers, Med ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Tue Nov 10 17:21:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B443A1293; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:21:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6_5t6-I1iMxL; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 000243A1290; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CW6Q45bsdz6G99s; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1605057692; bh=S53ASYK8pv9Pq6yp/OTOA+VucsnsebVp04sgOIPetq0=; h=Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=aeBl/7Dg+OBUl7HcyBQx/lvDQvLQSgUtSQyWkJF8rVZRMVMBA2apD3GNdoCXA1pcX vOqP0Xpla0ztNl/tFyhbhXGGynLgOg/jj6eH+UoMju93QtnqB3No22ceY54oP+XP+o vFF2kNN1pmqCosG7p5c74pXnCiDRs91Pxb+no6RA= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (unknown [50.225.209.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CW6Q372Ptz6G7wp; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:21:31 -0800 (PST) References: <160505341655.5428.1552478254085102351@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "lisp@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <160505341655.5428.1552478254085102351@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <665f0427-5c4f-e99b-6fec-1a4564a05d50@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:21:29 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <160505341655.5428.1552478254085102351@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Fwd: NomCom needs your feedback! X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 01:21:35 -0000 This request came from the nomcom chair. The nomcom needs your input. Please. Thank you, Joel -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: NomCom needs your feedback! Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 16:10:17 -0800 From: NomCom Chair 2020 To: IETF Announcement List CC: ietf@ietf.org Hi IETF, NomCom is considering nominees for AD positions, IETF Chair, IAB, LLC Board, and IETF Trust. We need more input from the community both on specific nominees and on over-arching topics regarding what the community wants from these specific groups and wants from its leadership in general. We need *your* input. ** Deadline for community feedback is Friday November 20. ** We've paid attention to discussions on the ietf list. Issues raised there have been brought up in interviews. We've also asked questions of nominees based on feedback received, and based on the "Topics" that people said were important. We're listening to you. But most of the input to date has come from a few consistently vocal people. We need to hear from more of you. I scheduled our office hours during the 2 weeks before next week's IETF, because IETF week is so busy. We have one more left (18:00-19:00 UTC November 11). No-one but NomCom members showed up for our first 3. ☹ If there is demand for more office hours, I'll schedule them; but this really doesn't seem to be the preferred format for input. Most input is coming in as either - email to nomcom20@ietf.org - feedback on https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/feedback/ On the feedback page, the specific nominees are all listed at the top. General Topics are at the bottom. We pay attention to all the comments we get through these channels. I'll also try to hang out in Gather.Town during IETF breaks next week. I'm not going to have a specific NomCom area in Gather.Town, because it was really lonely hanging out there during IETF 108. But please feel free to hunt me down and bend my ear -- on NomCom issues or just to chat. I miss seeing all of y'all! Barbara Barbara Stark NomCom 2020 Chair _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce From nobody Wed Nov 11 01:43:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47C03A0FE8; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 01:43:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org 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ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924F23A13E0; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:18:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sfc@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.22.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sfc@ietf.org Message-ID: <160550748255.27586.15355391166748702688@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:18:02 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:18:03 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF. Title : Service Function Chaining: Subscriber and Performance Policy Identification Variable-Length Network Service Header (NSH) Context Headers Authors : Behcet Sarikaya Dirk von Hugo Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2020-11-15 Abstract: This document defines two Variable-Length Context Headers that can be carried in the Network Service Header: the Subscriber and Performance Policy Identifiers. These Context Headers are used to inform Service Functions of subscriber- and performance-related information for the sake of policy enforcement and appropriate service function chaining operations. The structure of each Context Header, and their use and processing by NSH-aware nodes, are described. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 15 22:28:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889E03A13EC; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:28:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Magnus Westerlund via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, Greg Mirsky , gregimirsky@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.22.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Magnus Westerlund Message-ID: <160550810432.11228.9142080965421811256@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:28:24 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:28:25 -0000 Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my issue. From nobody Sun Nov 15 22:29:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D923A1410 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:29:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lgbwVqqqRxTx for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:29:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0A2F3A140E for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CZK193rP0z7td5 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 07:29:33 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1605508173; bh=uQcTTV3ZCXDg2C88Dn3qzJjmCKZHb2W7Yba5OKHOf3M=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=eUoZMW+XRh9ci+KW3pDh0ovZA2HwJGIrBl3L5E0H1LdQ7iIitLqVSW3pmpgP8fvWX UL+qgYI6agEzEJO7WhyIZaDuPmjcd36xyNHLj1yJkI0U+4CbjSmnUwBJk8Sh/5sYpD 1W74yKfKA0DmEpqM2IYWgSLrzehXxsPh4CC60xUazYRvQc2DxurT+jTnSLRvsr3CHJ ERwX9lG/oZds2nNnVdeFvFYsY3hYdM0AHpv4+kwQ+PL0ja1qZpDkv1vpw8zJx63VZ5 midMsK2mAoXQchoiFJx1oQME5dkuRk6PuN5SPX52AOli4kGTcDZbsGiB//S7oP1YiP lrb8uYTTPLRig== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.57]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CZK19375Pz1xp3 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 07:29:33 +0100 (CET) From: To: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13.txt Thread-Index: AQHWu+BH2pqczRTU9EO52UlAQXmed6nKSq6w Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:29:33 +0000 Message-ID: <16758_1605508173_5FB21C4D_16758_118_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303157A33E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160550748255.27586.15355391166748702688@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160550748255.27586.15355391166748702688@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:29:37 -0000 Hi all,=20 This version integrates the comments received during the IESG review and pa= rticularly the DISCUSSes from Magnus and Ben.=20 A follow-up is needed with Roman to check if any further change is needed.= =20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part > de internet-drafts@ietf.org > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 16 novembre 2020 07:18 > =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc=A0: sfc@ietf.org > Objet=A0: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the > IETF. >=20 > Title : Service Function Chaining: Subscriber and > Performance Policy Identification Variable-Length Network Service > Header (NSH) Context Headers > Authors : Behcet Sarikaya > Dirk von Hugo > Mohamed Boucadair > Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2020-11-15 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines two Variable-Length Context Headers that > can be > carried in the Network Service Header: the Subscriber and > Performance > Policy Identifiers. These Context Headers are used to inform > Service > Functions of subscriber- and performance-related information for > the > sake of policy enforcement and appropriate service function > chaining > operations. The structure of each Context Header, and their use > and > processing by NSH-aware nodes, are described. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-serviceid- > header-13 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-serviceid-header-13 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Mon Nov 16 04:16:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15D83A0DD6; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 04:16:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sfc@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.22.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sfc@ietf.org Message-ID: <160552898967.16273.1410141384364817642@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 04:16:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:16:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF. Title : Integrity Protection for the Network Service Header (NSH) and Encryption of Sensitive Context Headers Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Tirumaleswar Reddy Dan Wing Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2020-11-16 Abstract: This specification adds integrity protection and optional encryption of sensitive metadata directly to the Network Service Header (NSH) used for Service Function Chaining (SFC). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 16 04:24:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859453A0E04; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 04:24:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ThxdX1-yKmXO; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 04:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C013F3A0E03; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 04:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CZStZ1vw8z1y2N; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 13:24:22 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1605529462; bh=d4x/hhlYGJmWOkiWSU01a0qSH7nUy2N9yQDATlzObxg=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=qHw6tG5K/sPWVqa4pHj9W27jN7YZhePHKWoIP6VQYBWptgeVnJ0SuMhyz1+waa7A/ FB5QlsVL8Bix4ZvEhRaWJEmy/2ukct2OqD52SXi52PQVgEe30xKkF5hR2IShsx8OiQ cOMUSp8CNelbgyuknOUeoyH0y2pXSuXNNETRXmDHmdDvSjhpikoGYpfwNhZ3tBFKF2 7Iz+BpKdngN2iUXfrfEkc7QU1VbkyF5HuI4vrb+BtuhFEHdBUzHnEz7gIUT7Watlsq bTxDPdS8AlQfBM2OzYg4XxNo+KueIyqM6+7mOmz58/YXg4Ii8sMUvV9Wk1ilxyLfZQ InP5LuDIUSjzQ== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.67]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4CZStZ0tZLz1xq5; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 13:24:22 +0100 (CET) From: To: "sfc@ietf.org" , "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHWvBJVu0quKB8QaUGhlO3OqXe7vqnKrJtw Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:24:21 +0000 Message-ID: <28129_1605529462_5FB26F76_28129_421_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93303157AB93@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <160552898967.16273.1410141384364817642@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160552898967.16273.1410141384364817642@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:24:29 -0000 Hi all,=20 The main changes in this version are as follows:=20 * Expand on the MTU considerations * Add a reco to rate limit the logs Joel/Jim, can you please request an early secdir review of this version? FY= I, we solicited in the past the saag wg, but we didn't get much feedback (s= ee https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/HOaeRhyJX_RdqLu-XFitNddAd-I/)= . We hope to get more with a formal secdir review. Thank you. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 16 novembre 2020 13:16 > =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc=A0: sfc@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the > IETF. >=20 > Title : Integrity Protection for the Network > Service Header (NSH) and Encryption of Sensitive Context Headers > Authors : Mohamed Boucadair > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Dan Wing > Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01.txt > Pages : 28 > Date : 2020-11-16 >=20 > Abstract: > This specification adds integrity protection and optional > encryption > of sensitive metadata directly to the Network Service Header > (NSH) > used for Service Function Chaining (SFC). >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity- > 01 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Tue Nov 24 07:31:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8278E3A10DF; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:31:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: Cc: sfc@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160623191252.19826.11268479616141515499@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:31:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to RFC 7665 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 15:31:53 -0000 Dear Joel M. Halpern, Carlos Pignataro: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your RFC entitled "Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture" (RFC7665) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2020-11-23 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4498/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to RFC 7665" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Mon Nov 30 07:24:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4EC3A0DE2; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:24:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: Cc: sfc@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160674988088.18547.5981796440388503400@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:24:40 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to RFC 8595 and RFC 7665 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:24:41 -0000 Dear Joel M. Halpern, Carlos Pignataro: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your RFC entitled "Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture" (RFC7665) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2020-11-29 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4514/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to RFC 8595 and RFC 7665" Thank you IETF Secretariat